Warhammer and Such

[floral herald]

I feel like Lash deserves a mention

[untold swallow]

Apparently the DAngels used to be 'Great Plains native' themed???

Like with feathers and stereotypical 'mystic native' style names when back on their old, pre-writing of Caliban homeworld?

[floral herald]

Yep

It's actually why the Deathwing are bone colored, it's war paint

[untold swallow]

I just got to that part of the video that's telling me that lol

Man this is intriguing

But so problematic lmao

[desert jay]

Lash of Submission? It's in there at 10:40

[floral herald]

Oh I meant in the thumbnail haha

[desert jay]

Ahh hahaha

Look there's a lot of fucked up stuff across 10 editions and even more updates

[paper bluff]

Aaaah the heady days of the cheese croissants

[untold swallow]

Decided my aspect warriors are probably gonna be dark purple

With maybe some white or red accents

[pastel rampart]

Yeah it was mostly lore from Space Hulk waaaaaaaaay back. It didn't get a whole lot of mentioning after that.

[broken dew]

Question for the 40k folks, are models for 30k terminators like Cataphractii, Tartaros and Saturnine available for purchase atm or would that be something to find second hand

[pastel rampart]

You can buy them from GW or secondhand, the latter usually being cheaper.

[vital barn]

Saturnine are brand new and in the big starter set, so I'd imagine quite a few of them are either on the secondary market new in box right now or will be soon

[broken dew]

Oh cool

[vital barn]

as people break the box apart for the bits they want

[broken dew]

I wanted like 4 saturnine terminators

And one Tartaros

[vital barn]

Catas and Tartaros are both common plastic kits so they're easy enough to find

[broken dew]

One cataphractii for parts

[vital barn]

if you just want a few definitely go secondary market though, catas come in boxes of 5

[broken dew]

Good to know

I mean more Cataphractii wouldn't be terrible

Been working on a custom chapter and i was thinking i might wanna try my hand at making the chapter master and his elite guard

Gonna paint my crons and Assault Intercessors first mind you

But i wanted to see how availability is looking as a way to see how viable the idea is

[untold swallow]

Similar question: are there any giant cat models one could reasonably bash into a giant gyrinx?

I am having ideas for my Phoenix Lord

[broken dew]

For reference the chapter master wears Tartaros customized with Cataphractii looking bits and his elite guard is a complement of saturnine's

[still warren]

Tomb kings have sphinx units and that'll probably be your best bet

[broken dew]

The cataphractii thing is cause his chapter likes using them most and he's sort of a man of the chapter so he got his elite armor done up like his chapters favored armor as a showing of closeness with the chapter

[untold swallow]

Shit those are way too big lmao

[broken dew]

I imagine if i ever want to do a squad of Indomitus terminators i'll probably customize them to look like Cataphractii a bit too

[vital barn]

Bear in mind that Saturnine are absolutely massive so you would probably have to accept normal sized chapter master and his four biggest lads in that case

[broken dew]

Yeah

[vital barn]

Cata in the middle

[broken dew]

That's the plan

[vital barn]

I do like that the 30k sat command squads can be two models, two absolutely colossal guys with axes flanking an officer in normal gear is cool

[still warren]

Ah in that case try this one for a smaller cat https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/mindstealer-sphiranx-2022?srsltid=AfmBOoq3M_2oDw9H3-6rRkVql_Sh307E6dez4wkUH7G47b9i7S936I00

[broken dew]

His thing is that he is the absolute master of the chapters rituals, traditions and lore

He knows the chapter inside and out

He might not look as impressive as say, Calgar in his unique and massive terminator armor

But he can command every part of the chapter at once and fulfill all chapter roles at any given time if necessary so he doesn't need to be flashy, everyone respects him

The big lads flanking him are basically there to keep him unoccupied so he can dl his thing

And they are usually flanked by the less elite members of his guard as well if they're in a big engagement

Tartaros and Saturnine armor are both quite rare iirc being heresy era suits so it's also a showing of force that the Chapter master is wearing relic tartaros armor surrounded by his elite guard wearing relic saturnine armor

[vital barn]

Saturnine was cutting-edge newly deployed tech even in the Heresy, the Salamanders had the largest pile of it and they lost almost all their couple of hundred suits at Istvaan, so that's Very Relic Armour

[broken dew]

Yeah

The Dusk Defiant, my chapter, are extremely terminator heavy, so they spend most of their spare time when not battling looking for and bartering for terminator armor

Them having rare shit is based on the idea that they would straight up drop down to a place like Istvaan looking to scavenge

Also the irl idea that we have cool as fuck models and not using them feels pointless

No point in having sick ass Saturnine Pattern Terminators if nobody uses them at all

[untold swallow]

I mean

[past sphinx]

its technically mostly cat

well

[untold swallow]

ngl that vaguely fits 'weirdly mutated spacecat'

But also

the fuck is that???

[past sphinx]

its a cat

mostly cat

[untold swallow]

I mean the unit smarty

XD

[stark cypress]

It's a lizard cat

[past sphinx]

out of all the things its made out of the most its made out of its cat

Khimerex, a product of clan Escher

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/navy-seal-gun-seal-army-gif-11933413

[stark cypress]

Oh dam

That seal got a gun

All right, pack it up people. The Seal's Defense Force has it handled.

[untold swallow]

lol

Anyways, so it's a Necromunda piece not in 40k

[broken dew]

Looks tzeentch-y

[stark cypress]

Considering what some of the Houses do...

It might even be some abomination taken with some Tzeentch bits.

[untold swallow]

But yeah the throughline of these questions is the Phoenix Lord for the Warrior Aspect I made up, the Empyreal Lions, was a psyker-warrior as part of Asurmen's Asurya, and had a gyrinx companion

[broken dew]

Thinking i might just do the chapter master, the Castellan Shield-Lord's(his elite saturnine guards) and like, maybe one or two squads depending on how i end up structuring squad comp since Dusk Defiant uses a lot of heavy units and not as much just normal marines

[stark cypress]

Man, the Fists and Enforcers probably stop at least a few planet wide apocalypses about to start because of someone doing something stupid.

[untold swallow]

So on the tabletop she and her gyrinx are gonna be a two-model leader unit

hence my search for a roughly lion-sized cat model

[broken dew]

That sounds really cool

[broken dew]

Also ngl the idea of having a squad that is just the Chapter Master and four absolutely enormous Saturnine lads is very amusing to me

[untold swallow]

Ye I saw a very narrow gap in the lore I could fit psyker aspect warriors into and, in my love of spellswords, went 'B e t'

[broken dew]

Fuck yeah

My guys are ostensibly heresy era successors so i decided that they get to have way too many terminators as a treat

Back it up with centurions and dreads because fuck tanks

[untold swallow]

They embody Khaine as the wrath he could bring to bear through being a conduit of the Warp, an uplifted psionic weapon, built to fight in a cataclysmic war of galactic extinction

and lol nice

[broken dew]

They are Dusk Raider successors and still kinda use their whole attack at dawn thing with little to no vehucles so they use terminators, centurions and dreadnoughts for their heavy assault troops which make up more of the chapter than the codex astartes recommends

[untold swallow]

nicenice

[broken dew]

Guillimans book is for nerds we will put everyone in terminator armor actually

[untold swallow]

I do question how they uniquely have so much Terminator armor, given the DAngels are noted to have many more suits than usual and it's

around 80-100

[upper canopy]

Dark angels commit regular tech heresyb

[broken dew]

They have leftovers from legion days and they grab literally all terminators scraps they can find

[upper canopy]

Hence the gravity speeders and ubiquitous plasma

[untold swallow]

Yes, but Freyja's has even more Terminators, seemingly, and I just was curious why

Such has been answered and ultimately it's a silly little toy soldier game

[upper canopy]

Oh

[broken dew]

Mind you they don't actually have terminator armor for everyone but they have much much more than the average, and a lot of it is ancient Cataphractii

[upper canopy]

I thought this was a DA question

Mb

[broken dew]

The real answer is they yoinked a bunch of cataphractii when shit went sideways and they loot for terminator gear constantly

Since they are chaos successors anyway and are a very secretive chapter they play a bit fast and loose with how well they are "maintaining" any terminator armor they happen to find

[untold swallow]

lol nice

I'm thinking of changing my Aspect's name

Right now they're the Empyreal Lions which feels

eeeehhhh...

[broken dew]

Tech heresy is a bit much to fear when your dad is evil and the inquisition would immediately excommunicate traitoris your entire chapter if they found out

[stark cypress]

"Brother, we need to find a cover story for this...Blame the Mechanicus?"

"Blame the Mechanicus."

[broken dew]

Plus with them being heresy legion era successors they also just don't care that much about tech heresy as an idea

[untold swallow]

angy forgeworld noises

[broken dew]

They have a chapter culture of artifice to not have to rely on the mdchanicus too much

And they also generally exploit the shit out of marine specializations so they can pretend to be codex compliant while having like half a chapters worth of extra marines

Which i feel is a fair detail to have since we know of other prominent chapters that religioualy exploit loopholes like the Black Templars

[stark cypress]

Or The Dark Angels

And their whole secretive inquisition that they're hiding from the Inquisitions.

Who inquisitions the inquisition?

[broken dew]

The Dusk Defiant can have 10x numbers on their specialized marines as a treat so long as nobody asks

We definitely need 100 marines to guard the chapter master he is very important

[vital barn]

I am mildly annoyed by the fact the Word Bearers daemon saturnine are locked to 3 models minimum because they're a variant sat command squad and having two giant demon dudes flanking my Praetor would be very cool

three feels a bit awkward

still a great unit though

[broken dew]

Him and his elite guard are wearing exorbitantly expensive super rare relic armor

They HAVE to have that complement of 100 marines it's crucial

[vital barn]

(pictured, terribly built Phraetus, you really want to go double fisto and it looks better)

[broken dew]

Saturnines are so cool

[vital barn]

oddly their best gun is the S6 AP3 flamer sidearm

just hit the oncoming marine squad with the particle disintegration cones

[broken dew]

But yeah idk i thought that having a chapter that has like, an exorbitant excess of special units like chaplains, apothecaries, tech marines and librarians as a way to just fake following the codex rules of not army building too hard was kinda fun

[broken dew]

That's kinda funny

[broken dew]

Also kinda funny when some other chapter meets with them and they show up with like half a chapter worth of specialized marines and act like it's normal to have 100 chaplains

[stark cypress]

Sidebar: I saw some of the new box prices at one of my LGS'es.

Dam, Kill Team Neophyte Scouts being $83 is wild.

[broken dew]

Goodness gracious that is a lot

Also you know what i should go check out my LGS and see if they have any terminators i want in stock

[sour sequoia]

There’s a reason I went and got all my GSC in kinda one go so I don’t have to buy models for a few years

No more models till a full playset of GSC is parade ready We Ball

[broken dew]

Since saturnine are new apparenly and i need 4 specifically i may be able to get some

[vital barn]

annoyingly for this they come in boxes of 3

[broken dew]

Oh for fuck sake

[vital barn]

wait no I tell a lie, you're good

[broken dew]

Oh ok good

[vital barn]

I was just seeing lots of people building 3 dudes + 1 praetor in sat, since the squad is min 3 models

4 in a box

[broken dew]

I'll likely get the chapter masters model solo second hand

Presumbly i can't get Tartaros terminators solo

And i only need the one

[vital barn]

there are lots of Tartaros and Cataphractii character models that do come solo so it depends whether you want a model to tweak or just a regular termie to shred for parts

[broken dew]

Gonna need to see if i can find some weapons and such, need storm shields and plasma weapons for the saturnine

[broken dew]

Gonna need to check for that then for sure

[vital barn]

they come with their trademark plasma sippy cups and their fists have the disintegrator flamers mounted on the gauntlets, so it would presumably be quite easy to remove the disintegrator nozzle and stick the front of a plasma gun on there instead if you want something smaller

shields might be harder since I believe the old indomitus storm shields would be miniscule on them

at least there are a zillion third party Marine shields

[broken dew]

Nah the shields are for Chapter Master

Playing rule of cool fast and loose with a lot of this but i thought him having extra protection since he's supposed to be the leader of a chapter focusing on a marching fortress style of battle would be cool

So i was gonna have him just mount 2 pared down storm shields to his power fists and have them be a chapter relic along with his armor

As the chapter master he gets the coolest stuff and i don't believe storm shields are that rare?

[vital barn]

I was going to say the Fists have you covered there but obviously they don't usually come with two on any model

but yeah that's totally reasonable, storm shields are "normal termie" levels of rare

fists praetor is this fellow

[broken dew]

He's doing the dark souls door strat

[vital barn]

huh, putting a cloak on a tartaros suit just makes you notice that they look like walking eggs even more, because it follows on from the smooth curve of the upper plate

[broken dew]

Idk what would be reasonble for him to use as a ranged weapon so i was just gonna have him dual wield pistols

[vital barn]

probably hard to stick both a gun and a storm shield to the side of your power fist, but you could go for a shoulder mount

[broken dew]

Maybe have him carry like, a multi melta or some other heavy duty shit cause he's in termie armor anyway so he might as well have a huge gun

[broken dew]

Mhm, i felt adding guns would be a bit too similar to Calgar

[vital barn]

techmarines shouldn't get a monopoly on shoulder-cannons

[broken dew]

The Dusk Defiant pay lip service to the idea of techmarines

They really do not care like with many things mechanicum

I might have him have flamers

Since the chapters weaponry focus is plasma, melta and flamers, with their theme of scouring and purifying

[floral herald]

There is 1 (and only 1) guy I can think of off the top of my head for an exception

[vital barn]

you will probably need some techies if you have a ton of ancient relic gear, since even Heresy techmarines were mars-trained, but Not Fond Of Techpriests is not unusual for chapters

[floral herald]

But he totally counts

[vital barn]

admech automata love their shoulder mounts

who the hell's he

he's neat

it's a good look

[floral herald]

Tor Garadon, he's some 40k Imperial Fist captain

[vital barn]

OK, he looks way worse with the helmet off, keep that on

and I'm not sure about the brass knuckles on the power fist

[floral herald]

Yeah I carefully picked the helmet on model I found lol

[vital barn]

but it's a great silhouette

[sour sequoia]

The in-house style at GW is just. So fuck ugly with faces lmao

Tor ain’t a looker tho

[vital barn]

looks vaguely like Jay Leno

[broken dew]

They do have techies, the chapters specialty tech based guys are the Artificier Consecrstors which would be led by tech marines of the chapter

[floral herald]

He's also kinda Jay Leno in art too

[vital barn]

except with the usual GW amount of fucked up face-painting

[broken dew]

For specialty marines i imagined that the Dusk Defiant plays very fast and loose with the codex and has their own in house equivalents which look good on paper

The only ones that aren't at all being used to bolster chapter numbers are the chaplaincy

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KBO9d/cb09ba627b.jpg

THREE SECONDS FROM FLAVORTOWN

[broken dew]

They just have 10x as many chaplains because they fucking hate Typhus

Their librarians are entirely just a 11th company

[floral herald]

This would be amazing as a server sticker honestly

[pastel rampart]

Yeah lmao

[broken dew]

Since they have zero psykers

They just added another company, slapped the librarian designation on them and specially trained them to fight demons and called it a day

They care about the codex only a little bit more than the Black Templars and at least pretend they are following it a little bit

[pastel rampart]

Call it :lowtax: because he looks like that fucker lmao

[broken dew]

Still need to do a lot of work and lore searching for my chapter but at least the Chapter Master is sick as hell

How rare are iron halo's btw, cause i know mostly chapter masters and captains have them, but idk how rare they are among the chapters as a whole

[floral herald]

Pretty rare

They’ve gotten more common model wise as getting a 4++ becomes more mechanically necessary

[pastel rampart]

Rare enough to have been on every smasher captain for a couple editions in a row :v

[broken dew]

Rare enough that it's unlilely for smaller chapters to even have one?

[floral herald]

But lore wise they’re so rare it’s pretty much just for captains who also have major honors

[vital barn]

I would expect every chapter that doesn't have "broke" as one of their defining features to have one

[floral herald]

Which is probably like half of them and the master

But like 6-8 ish is probably normal

(Space marines also used to get refractor and conversion field access for lesser force fields)

(Heck they still might a lot of people get a 4++ with no explanation)

[broken dew]

I was thinking that my chapter master, Abachyle Phayne would use one on top of his tartaros armor and his storm shield mounted power fists just to sell the whole walking fortress thing

But i didn't want it to be a thing if it was too jnlikely for him to have one at all

[floral herald]

It is redundant with a storm shield

But a decorative iron halo to represent the battle honor is also common

[broken dew]

He would prolly have one anyway

His chapter basically strives to have as many heavy units as they can to fit their walking wall battle tactics and he's The Guy™

[vital barn]

tartaros + halo is not an unusual config for Heresy officers at least because it covers for the weaker armour of the tartaros suit and lets you schmoove

[broken dew]

So it being redundant or such is unimportant

[vital barn]

(at least in lore, on the tabletop everyone is Cataed up to the nines because people love elite cataphractii squads)

[floral herald]

It’s redundant cause you can’t engage both force fields at once iirc

[broken dew]

Ah

Backup anyway

[vital barn]

justaerin produced minor cataphractii brainworms

and people wnat that 4++ invuln

I'm fairly sure legion-elite-cataphractii units outnumber legion-elite-other-termies by a significant margin

[broken dew]

He wears Tartaros armor that they've bolted on armor bits to make it look a bit more like cataphractii

[vital barn]

fuck it, I'll count 'em before bed

[floral herald]

Its been a while since I brushed up on force field lore but my recollection is that they interfere so you can’t use 2 at once and the Storm Shield one is better (and less prestigious)

[broken dew]

The plan was a storm shield mounted to each arm

On power gloves

Just cause i thought it'd be a sick ass fucking visual for a chapter master of the oops all terminators chapter

Posted up like this

[vital barn]

An extremely pointless list of Legion terminator uniques:

Cataphractii:

• Inner Circle Knights
• Deathwing (optional)
• Varagyr
• Huscarls
• Crimson Paladins (rare useful cata + shield combo)
• Morlocks
• Fulmentarus
• Firedrakes
• Deliverers
• Tyrant Siege
• Red Butchers
• Grave Wardens
• Sekhmet
• Justaerin
• Lernaeans
• Dominators

Tartaros:

• Deathwing (optional)
• Ebon Keshig (extremely not elites)
• Phoenix Guard
• Contekar
• Atramentar
• Deathshroud

Other:

• Gorgons (Gorgon, not elites)
• Phraetus Conclave (Saturnine)

[floral herald]

Oh I didn’t realize Huscarls were terminators lol

[vital barn]

they are some of the most terminators of all terminators, yeah

elite 0-1 Eternal Warrior Cataphractii with upgraded power fists and built in deep-strike

[floral herald]

I haven’t looked at the game much so my frame of reference has been the SoT books which kinda assume you already know what the formations are

Damb

[vital barn]

specifically they get the Custodes power fists

which is a funny legion unique weapon

Dorn just goes "yeah those'll do" and steals a box of shiny gold gloves

[sour sequoia]

Its funny that deliverers are what pushed me to take raven guard when everybody in Raven Guard is pointing at their terminators and laughing but. Deliverers go hard

[floral herald]

I dig their look

[junior summit]

are huscarl fists custodes?

oh shit yeah they get solarite power gauntlets

[sour sequoia]

The older editions have them giving stealth to every other nearby raven guard unit because they ditch the ninjamarine vibe to load up on warpaint and screaming “SQUARE UP THOT”

[sonic hare]

as someone whose still in the "painting my army" phase of w40k. I was looking at the 10e rules to see my best options for getting to 500/1K and stumbled upon this. does anyone know why warriors are like this? what's the balance here on smaller squads being less ppm

[broken dew]

Fit goes hard

[vital barn]

Deliverers are great because Corax spends the whole heresy going "oh not you guys again... oh fucking fine, go Deliver all over people if you want"

the sons nobody wants

[sour sequoia]

“Just how did the raven guard sneak around in jump packs and power armor” answered by throwing angry balls of terminators that act like night lords and world eaters at the front door

[junior summit]

iirc larger blocks live a lot longer

[vital barn]

at least the other unwanted termie squads were primarch bodyguards who ran into the fact that bodyguarding primarchs is mostly unnecessary, the deliverers just had bad vibes as far as dad was concerned

[spice flicker]

Had some friends interested in hosting a small king of the colosseum tournament. Any suggestions on a faction to consider?

[sour sequoia]

Necron warrior 20 man with proper support will not die. It will not fucking die. You win most of your games by spreading one unit to cover 2 objectives and then resurrection ratfucking for score all day.

The 10-man even with same support folds to random bullshit all the time

[untold swallow]

Does Raging Lions sound like an Aspect Shrine to anyone?

[sonic hare]

thank you both

[broken dew]

search LGS website for termies
no saturnine, make sense
no tartaros, ok
search cataphractii
your search has yielded 2 results
"death guard blightlord terminators"
"death guard typhus herald of the plague god"
mfw i am making a custom loyalist death guard chapter

[spice flicker]

Death guard lost for 10k years only to show up with no clue about the heresy

[broken dew]

Genuinely baited wtf

[broken dew]

My guys are called the Dusk Defiant

They are very strongly pretending that their dad is Dorn or Vulkan and that they aren't chaos legion loyalists

[untold swallow]

realizes the Striking Scorpions are a Predator reference and that's why their helmets have the bead-dreads

God damn it

[hard whale]

seems like "lion sized" is a bit under-represented. We've got the Phyrr Cat (also from Necromunda) in the middle and the Sphiranx from AoS on the right, and I can't think of anything that could fit in between. Yvraine's normal Gyrinx for scale

[junior robin]

what about frost sabers?

[hard whale]

I didn't expect the Ogres would have any pets. Good find!

[main pagoda]

they are quite the pet owner faction

SW wolves might be the ideal size

[broken dew]

Love looking around on wiki's for information and finding dead ends, trying to figure out what kind of ship a Chapter Barque is and i can't find anything except it being an "unusually powerful battle barge"

[pastel rampart]

That's probably due to it having a single mention in a novel or codex and never expanded upon after that.

[broken dew]

The Lamenters had one named Mater Lachrymarum

Looking up fleet based chapters cause i wanted to make the Dusk Defiant fleet based

Wouldn't really make sense for them to have a planet since their home world would be like, Barbarus

Which presumably got exterminatus'd

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Attack_Barque I'd surmise from this entry that a chapter barque is a larger version of this, possibly more well-armed and armored.

If GW doesn't really detail something you're free to make it up.

[broken dew]

But all the stupid fleet based chapters have crazy super ships like Glorianaclass battle barges

Or some bespoke bullshit like The Rock or The Phalanx or the Raptorus Rex

[pastel rampart]

Hey nothing says you can't do your own bespoke bullshit, it is YOUR chapter.

[vital barn]

glorianas are primarch flagships and/or heresy authors waving their proverbials around giving legions like ten of them, but "we have a warp-capable fortress monastery" is pretty normal

[pastel rampart]

Shield-class Barque shaped like a giant storm shield? Fuckin' go for it who cares.

[broken dew]

For some reason the Fire Hawks just had a fucking warp capable space fortress

[vital barn]

Graia, Ulan Huda and Xana 2 are all warp-capable forge worlds, this stuff is around if rare at much bigger sizes than that of doomforts

[broken dew]

I guess i might as well give the Dusk Defiant a sick ass space fortress instead of a Battle Barge then

[vital barn]

(Ulan Huda is great, a bunch of heresy-era heterodoxists vanished into the borderlands for a couple of centuries and came back riding around on Unicron)

[broken dew]

Lmao

Aww man

Wanted to call their fortress monastery Indomitables Return but the Ultramarines had a friggin star fortress called The Indomitable

[main pagoda]

Yeah it ain't coming back honsu stole that thing

[broken dew]

It was a reference to them being Dusk Raider successors since their whole thing was being really tanky

[main pagoda]

I mean to be honest it's different enough

[pastel rampart]

There's always The Indefatigable as a name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefatigable-class_battlecruiser It'd even have some goofy precedence irl

[broken dew]

The Unyielding is taken by fucking ksons

Tzeentch troll

[vital barn]

and also Rylanor

[broken dew]

Kinda wanted to keep the return bit

[vital barn]

who has better dibs on it

[broken dew]

Rylanor too my GOAT

Indefatigables Return doesn't sound as good i think

[vital barn]

my favourite "in-" ship design is Incomparable, which was just extremely silly

Dreadnought front, Incomparable back, note scale of shells

following the highly orky directive of "BIGGER! FASTER! BIGGER GUNS!"

[broken dew]

Indefatigable's Return isn't bad tho

Helmed by Abachyle Phayne, the Duskbreaker

I'm really fucking proud of that one ngl, baller name for a Chapter Master

[main pagoda]

Just don't name your ship invincible

[broken dew]

Invincible is asking for an irrecoverable asswhooping

[broken dew]

His titles are Duskbreaker, Coruscant Dawn and Master of Rituals

[broken dew]

Yeah i just didn't want to do something that's completely unlikely to be possible

Like Gloriana Class ships i counted out immediately for instance

Was unsure how prolific star fortresses were

And my guys already have some rare as fuck things with their termies

[broken dew]

Might cop this idea but just have it be a huge fuck off shield on the front of their star fortress

The Indefatigable's Return having an enormous fuck off shield on the front, could use it for ramming action if they're crazy enough

[still warren]

My only question is why sisters of battle are so popular with Belgians

[pastel rampart]

I'd say absolutely built for ramming. Some sort of energy shield generated in front to allow for it, and has compartments that allow troops to board enemy ships from that shield.

[broken dew]

That does sound fucking sick ngl

Especially works cause my chapter fields tons of termies and other heavy troops that are good for bosrding action

[vital barn]

that's a Titan weapon already, you could scale it up to the size of a full spaceship ramming prow and replace the wings with kind of an extended-kiteshield type thing

(also aww, tiny old Epic-scale termie)

[broken dew]

Could do several since it's going on the front of a Star Fortress at this point

I super need to do art of this now

[vital barn]

star fortresses are kind of round and slow, I don't recall many that even have a front

[broken dew]

Yeah well the front'd be the shield wouldn't it

Absolutely ludicrous ramming action

[vital barn]

I suppose you could to a variant Ramilles and replace each of those four corner gates with a big ramming face

[broken dew]

Yeah

[vital barn]

studded with boarding torpedo launchers in case they don't actually want to come melee you

if they do you just slide the torps out of the way and board down the tubes

[broken dew]

Or closer to the Fire Hawks fortress, the Raptorus Rex

It seems to have sort of a front

[vital barn]

also means if you have one boarding surface pressed against the enemy ship, the others can all launch torps at point-blank range and do a kind of boarding macross missile spam to curve into the enemy ship from all angles

[broken dew]

Yeah

[vital barn]

rather than just sitting around being out of contact

[broken dew]

Also lets you have weapons batteries to hammer any ships trying to flank while you do ramming action

[main pagoda]

question in regards for this so you have a ram on a star fort how fast do you intend to make it

[broken dew]

Some speed can be supplanted by mass

But you'd wanna retrofit it with a pretty righteous amount of thrusters

But like, if a star fortress starts running you down

Even if it's not crazy fast

It's still a whole star fortress running you down

[main pagoda]

fair

[broken dew]

It might not be a blackstone fortress or The Phalanx

But if a Star Fortress with an enormous ramming shield is fuckin schmoovin at max speed into a ship battle you might want to move out of the way

Anyway i'm definitely making the Indefatigable's Return a ramming star fortress

That's too cool not to do

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/beyblade-beyblade-x-phoenix-phoenix-wing-gif-9868574315699559670

Consider:

[broken dew]

:0

[floral herald]

Based on my recollections of em in BFG they were super slow could move in any direction and were obligated to spin

I’m gonna look up Phalanx’s rules since it’s a sort of hybrid star fortress/warship

[main pagoda]

im fairly sure star forts couldnt move

(in bfg)

[broken dew]

If Dark Angels can take a chunk of Caliban and make a spaceship out of it it's fine for me to have a ramming speed star fortress

If it's obligated to spin i'll just have the thrusters and the shield sit on a middle segment that doesn't need to spin or something like that

[main pagoda]

i was just wondering if you were going to give something like the harpoons the conq had

[broken dew]

Fire the ursus claws

That's a good idea actually

[stark cypress]

And so begins the slow process of building the 289th Rangers of Kent.

[broken dew]

Could harpoon many ships for boarding action

[pastel rampart]

Since they specialize in boarding actions and terminators they could have a history of tackling space hulks and clearing them of orks and/or genestealers.

[floral herald]

You are right I think I mixed them up with Roks

Or maybe space hulks

[stark cypress]

Now, the hard part is gonna be doing poses outside of the instruction manual.

For example, the Vox Caster? I had to clip off a big chunk of backpack with a clipper

And then attached the vox over the big gaping hole.

[broken dew]

They almost certainly will

They would be a place to scavenge termie armor as well potentially

[broken dew]

It seems that Ursus claws are pretty specifically a World Eaters thing

But well, what's a little tech sharing between legions that fell to chaos

Can't be heresy to make use of harpoons can it

[pastel rampart]

And also tech and ships. What was once a derelict space hulk is now a proud ship of the chapter (once we scraped all the chaos gunk off it and gave it a new face shhh don't tell the inquisition).

[stark cypress]

*(WE SAY NOTHING TO THE INQUISITION! NOTHING!)

(Agreed, Brother. What about...The Priests.)

(We bribe them with all the shiny bits and say nothing.)*

[main pagoda]

I do wonder what the process would be of doing that would look like

[broken dew]

That's also peak tbh

It also super fits the Dusk Defiants

Since part of their chapter theme isourifying and sanctifying

They would burn everything clean with meticulous focus

One of the reasons i didn't want them to be planet based is cause i didn't think it would be feasible or reasonable in any capacity to try to scour, purify and sanctify one

[pastel rampart]

Basically refurbish the whole thing, give it a spiffy coat of paint and some sanctified oils, and then just keep going and say nothing to anyone who asks.

Make up a BS story and keep truckin'.

[stark cypress]

"So, where did this vessel come from?"

"Great Crusade Era wreck."

"Really? A wreck from the Great Crusade? May I see it?"

"No."

"Carry on then."

[broken dew]

As a chaos legion loyalist the Dusk Defiant are very good at lying about where stuff came from

They scavenge and repair lots of stuff from battlefields whenever possible as well and they lie about that too

[stark cypress]

"Hmmmmmm. I have questions."

"And I have many answers, Magos."

"Where did you get that Ryza-Pattern Russ from? They went defunct about 700 years ago."

"Ah, we have this venerable ancient in our war-hoard because of a great service we did for an Arch-magos."

"Ah...I see. I have no further questions."

[broken dew]

Mfw i did favors for unnamed people of great importance

Actually

I think i'll have them pretend to be Vulkan's boys rather than Dorns

[spice flicker]

What's a good all rounder loadout for helbrutes?

[broken dew]

It's a better cover up for them having saturnine armor and having a artifice culture in their chapter

"Where did you get that relic Saturnine armor"
"uhhhhhhh Vulkan is our dad maybe..?"
"Hmmmm, carry on then"

[spice flicker]

Hammer+lascannons, fist/flamer+lascannon, fist/flamer+hammer, or something else?

[mental birch]

I keep going saturnine good

Need to give em drillfist

[broken dew]

Saturnine are cool

I ended up making some guards for my chapter master

[untold swallow]

They're the ideal size but also yikes, sculpting

[untold swallow]

These guys would work great

[main pagoda]

what were you trying to make again lions?

[untold swallow]

more just a big cat

an oversized gyrinx for the Phoenix Lord of my psionic Aspect Warriors, the insert new adjective here cuz the old one is meh Lions

[main pagoda]

theres the lions from TOW HE chariots

[untold swallow]

tru

Raging Lions seems like a good name, but the Banshees are already representative of Khaine's rage

[broken dew]

Decided that the harpoon idea fucks and that it would be really cool if the Indefatigable's return always goes into battle by going ramming speed at the enemy fleet and grapples anyone who gets too close while evading it's ramming shield

If you get close you stay close, prepare to be boarded fucko

[untold swallow]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GBzXqu3mFhGJ-BlZxzYWA_QdJFSKI5Y_hPGWux-JkWc/edit?usp=sharing

Can I get some eyes on this to see if anyone else has a better idea of what adjective they should have applied to them instead of Empyreal, cuz I'm stumped lmao

[hard whale]

Resplendent, Rampant, Enlightened, Awakened: any of those work?

[untold swallow]

These kiiind of work

I am admittedly avoiding Rampant even tho it works quite well

Cuz I have Space Marine Chapter named the Lions Rampant

XDDDD

Oh

Storm Lions

They're psyker aspect warriors representing Khaine's aspect as a psionic weapon

warp storms

Storm Lions

voila

[hard whale]

Only problem with that is that Storm Guardians are already a thing

but I guess they do similar enough roles?

[untold swallow]

Fuck!

XD

[untold swallow]

Not reeeeaaaallly. These guys are built to psychically empower themselves and their weapons to kill shit and shrug off otherwise mortal blows

[untold swallow]

Tempest Lions is fine probs

[broken dew]

Yeah

[charred bridge]

GW releasing new orks, they're primaris Orks

[broken dew]

Lmao

[broken dew]

Apparently there is a single named Legion of the Damned marine

[stark cypress]

Need two more

[sonic hare]

let them into the bunker

[rocky shale]

Found someone selling just under 2000pts of skaven for less than $200... Might have to start an AoS army

The big dumb guns call to me

[runic swallow]

Yes-yes, take the offer-deal

[rocky shale]

From looking at them I assume skaven basically play how they should?

Hordes of useless crap backed up by big dumb stuff?

With lots of tricks and rng?

[desert jay]

And also tunnels!

[still warren]

Basically, lots of roll to overcharge your guns take mortal wounds on sixes

[stark cypress]

I had an idea

One of my LGS'es has a starter box Roman legionaries from Warlord.

How viable would it be to kitbash space roman guard with that?

[sour sequoia]

Pretty much exactly. The closest 40k equivalent is GSC or AdMech but at the very least you have pretty straightforward giant shooty hammer units

There’s fiddly crap you can learn to get bigbrain with it and gnawholes are incredibly potent schmovement tech but you can always go “whatever. 3x 18d6 attacks of sustain hits 1 3+/3+/1/1”

Ratling gun bricks butcher greater daemons

[rocky shale]

I did see the tunnels and went oh it's gsc

[rocky shale]

Rattling guns are like 95% of the appeal of the faction

[sour sequoia]

Its a lot less intense but deep strikes and reserves don’t actually exist by default in AoS

So Skaven getting to deploy outta them and teleport around through em and resurrect units out of em for 1 command point is schnasty

[rocky shale]

Yeah

It's such a good deal that I'm getting where if I don't like them I can prob just resell for another army lol

It's like a skaventide + storm vermin, storm fiend, doom wheel, and verminlord

[sour sequoia]

stormfiends goated, doomwheel is a classic and its like. Fine. Every verminlord variant is pretty useful some are just weirder than others

skaventide with all that is great value, if you grab the older spearhead + two boxes of the warpspark battery crews you're basically at a full, solid army

[rocky shale]

The spearhead is the one with the warp lightning cannon, right?

[sonic hare]

Trying to see what I can build with the Necron models I have at 1,000 points.
1st pic is what I own, 2nd pic is a list I could build with the models I own now + 1 box warriors, and 3rd pic is what I think a good build would be with a few buys (2x lokhust destroyer + skorpekh lord). I used colours to mark who leads which group since new recruit wants me to paty for that.
Would love some feedback if someone has time as it would be sweet to start playing next year.

If anyone sees a good list where I wouldnt have to buy anything that would be sweet. I definitely really want to play with Szeras if possible.

[dense idol]

alright, I'll give my takes (do not consider me an authority on whatever the meta is, this is not legal advice, etc)

I think that the former list is a stronger choice than the latter, but that's mostly down to the fact that annihilation legion is a serious contender for worst detachment in the entire game

it's a shame, too, because the thematics are so good, but it's the classic battle-shock/below half strength detachment gimmick of "why do I want buffs against units that are almost dead, when other detachment gives me buffs against units that are both not dead and almost dead"

getting as much value out of szeras as possible makes sense, but 400 points is a lot to spend on warriors alone

sheer numbers is the main thing going for them, and they aren't particularly dangerous or bulky outside of that, though the szeras buff might help there

they really do want a reanimator / ghost ark / something else to give more value to all their wounds and really take advantage of Their Number Is Legion

overall though, it's a functional list, though very vulnerable to torrent weapons and other efficient anti-infantry

personally, I would swap the lhd for a royal warden to give one of those warrior blocks better utility and mobility, and swap out the scarabs for a new hexmark destroyer, which can fill the roles of objective-sitter, deep-strike flanker, and warrior support flexibly depending on what the match needs

[broken dew]

Going with this idea for the second of the Dusk Defiant's Flagships, the Dread March

They went full chapter strength at a decently sized but not enormous enough to have its own gravity Space Hulk with a ship-like shape, scavenged a ton of hull from other wrecks, cleaned them up and worked them into the outside of the hulk to make a nice Imperial ship facade, then connected all the internal parts of the hulk and added warehouse space and such to the empty bits of the inside and called it a great crusade wreck or some such and just don't let anyone on it

They basically roam about in two enormous and slow fortresses with a fleet of smaller ships doing support

Indefatigable's Return does ramming speed and grapples any ship trying to stay close for flanking attacks and the Dread March lumbers behind it decimating any ships caught in the Indefatigable's Return's hooks

Most of their medium ships would be set up for point defense and keeping enemy ships off their two flagship vessels while their smaller ships would all be configured for speed and ramming/boarding action

[sonic hare]

Thank you! Do you think I'll be too light on anti-vehicle/monster without the LHD & swarms?

[sonic hare]

I'm very sad to hear that about the annihilation legion. it really is super cool. very sad

[broken dew]

Does 10th edition have rules for custom chapters and such?

Was thinking that while i may not make the army irl cause money i might do a list for fun

[floral herald]

Sort of, detachments aren’t connected directly to chapters but are kinda thematically similar

Anvil Siege Force isn’t the imperial fists detachment but you can kinda tell etc

[broken dew]

Ahhh ok

I assume for chapter specific units there is some limitation around them?

[floral herald]

Yeah they’re usually locked up in a specific famous chapter setup where you gotta use their detachments but you get their units

[broken dew]

So if you use a Ultramarines specific one you're locked to Ultramarines ones say

[floral herald]

DA, BA, BT, SW are the ones with unit lockouts iirc

I think their might be some weird character specific detachments but I don’t follow loyalist space marines closely enough

[broken dew]

Yeah fair nuff

Well i'll probably check out 10th ed and see if i can't put together an army list for the Dusk Defiant

Prolly will be looking at Imoerial Fist or Salamander style units if anything but i'm sure i'll figure it out as i go

Huh TIL that Guilliman apparently remixed the Codex when he came back

Seems to have sorta abolished chapter limits or such, interesting

Black Templars are surely happy

[sour sequoia]

Codex Marines currently works on “if you take an epic hero you can’t take one from a diff chapter”

And “if you use the detachments for simulating a given non-Ultras chapter, you get extra bennies for taking a certain epic hero and you will also lose the +1 to wound in Oath of Moment”

[hollow laurel]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/tqw4l4sz/muster-mighty-forces-with-seven-new-warhammer-40000-battleforce-boxes/

KT stealth suits
Farsight, riptide, crisis suits and a broadside

The temptations

[broken dew]

Not that they gave a rats ass about the Codex anyway mind you

[hollow laurel]

Surely I will not regret switching armies

[broken dew]

Ic ic

[sour sequoia]

Black Templars lose Oath of Moment entirely but have unique vehicles and units and also legitimately one of the scariest buffs in the game

[broken dew]

I would not be running any named characters

[hollow laurel]

BTs are super scary, from the time I fought them in a league earlier in the year

[sour sequoia]

“Custom Chapter” vibes are basically done at Picking Detachment level, if you’re picking anybody besides Guilliman I doubt anybody’s gonna really notice or care if you make a conversion

[broken dew]

Well, i'd be running ones for my named characters but no canon chapter specific named characters

[sonic hare]

are these going to be the Christmas boxes for this year or will there be others

[hollow laurel]

These are the 40k ones I think

friendly neighbourhood nikheizen ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) are these going to be the Christmas boxes for this year or will there be others

[broken dew]

If nothing else i definitely wanna run a Tartaros and four Saturnines as my Chapter Master and his elite guard

[hollow laurel]

There's 4 AoS ones too

[broken dew]

I might run some Salamanders stuff

Since my chap does flamers, meltas and plasma and they're pretending to be Salamander successors

[sour sequoia]

Worth noting Sats don’t exist in 40k at all yet

[broken dew]

[mental birch]

How much do you enjoy movmenet bullshit?

[broken dew]

Are you kidding me 😭

I guess I'll proxy them as Tartaros termies or something

[sour sequoia]

space marine players when they don’t get to double dip in a way nobody else does

They’re also dreadnought sized

If you’re gonna do proxies, they work great as Devastators FWIW

[broken dew]

I could do that

[mental birch]

They're just called centurions

Lol

[floral herald]

That’s a tempting CSM box haha

[sour sequoia]

But not joking they’re the same size as the old dreadnoughts

[mental birch]

:p

Centurions vibe fit better?

IMO weirdly

[sour sequoia]

Ah wait right

Centurion is the unit type

[broken dew]

That works for me

[sour sequoia]

I only see the devastator ones

[broken dew]

My chapter fields alot of termies, centurions and dreads

[sour sequoia]

And do not respect space marines enough to learn their units

[hollow laurel]

I play a dusk wing.

Hopefully that suffices as an answer.

Admiral (she/her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) How much do you enjoy movmenet bullshit?

[broken dew]

Basically trade having vehicles for heavy armor

[mental birch]

So youre a weird hybrid army

Against most other armies you're a fragile movement focused shoot and shoot army

Shoot ans scoot

Derp

Or move shoot and die

Against faster armies like Aeldari youre barely fast enough to catch

The elves where other armies would suffer chasing

So you can just slap them

[hollow laurel]

O I mean I already have "enough" Tau that it's a main swap rather than a hard swap

[broken dew]

Tbf i just want to have my Chapter Master be clad in sick relic terminator armor and flanked by 4 big bois

[sour sequoia]

Completely understandable

[broken dew]

Who can resist the allure of 4 big bois

[sour sequoia]

All the new chapter master guys are on 50s if it helps you brainstorm

[broken dew]

I already have my guy figured out

Chapter Master of the Dusk Defiant Abachyle Phayne, the Duskbreaker

Flanked by the four elite members of his personal guard, the Castellan Shield-Lords

I assume that Chapter Masters run as hero units or such but i could be wrong

[vital barn]

am I missing a generic chapter master datasheet or a 9e-style promotion strat somewhere? I went to check what they do now and they don't seem to actually exist, which would be a tiny bit jank

[mental birch]

Doesn't really exist anymore outside of like conceptually

In an enhancement I guess?

[vital barn]

I don't see one, although I could be blind, there are lots to sort through

ah, it's a Crusade rules only thing, you have to fight with a captain and promote him mid-narrative campaign

you know, I thought removing Assault Marines was borderline but this is definitely over it, given how many people have lovingly converted custom chapter masters

[jaunty dawn]

box of head

[vital barn]

I guess there was no generic Chapter Master model so RIP being able to have Your Dude who is even slightly as cool as Calgar or whoever

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like ppl would want this but just mk 7/8 haha

[sour sequoia]

There’s something extremely funny about Matt Ward actually being better for the health of The Your Dudes Faction than the current state

[vital barn]

They trimmed the Space Marine range: great, nothing wrong with that, they had way too much stuff, but why did they trim it with a shotgun and take out a bunch of iconic basic units as well as all the nonsense

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like the same armies get battleforces each year at least partially. Like sylvaneth for aos? maybe they're super popular

[sour sequoia]

The christmas boxes tend to be geared toward new players

[jaunty dawn]

I'm kinda tempted to get all the spite revenants I could need in one go :x but also realistically I really don't need it

[sour sequoia]

They look at their stats on what’s appealing to first timers, sylvaneth have a really good aesthetic and don’t need a ton of lore to like, Get

[upper bluff]

eBay Farsight kits are about to hit an all time low price lol

[sour sequoia]

My master plan to acquire a Basing Farsight wreck for upcoming new nightbringer moved to phase 2

Now to tank the price of every phoenix lord

[tardy vault]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/x02hi8xs/amass-a-new-army-with-four-age-of-sigmar-battleforce-boxes/

So for AOS boxes:

Skaven: 930 points max out of the box
Soulblight: 1000 points
Gloomspite Gitz: 1110 points
Sylvaneth: 980 points max out of the box

[pastel rampart]

Honestly, not bad? Good points allotment for them even if there's a 50-190pt difference going on.

[sour sequoia]

Gloomspite box working overtime for the gitmob FOMO box that was like $1/pt

[pastel rampart]

Two of them are in the "grab an additional box to get to 1000pts" and one of them is "yeah just drop a unit to be at 1k."

[tardy vault]

The SBGL one turns into a decent army with two.

Vordrai is a dual build so he's no problem, and 20 Blood Knights sounds like a massive pain in the ass

Or if you already have a force you just slap this on top for the finishing touches.

[sour sequoia]

Oh wait lmao gloomspite box is fantastic thats just the entire trolls list in one go

[rocky shale]

The skaven one is cool except for all the stormvermin

[sour sequoia]

Get that and your random shitmen for scoring and you’re good to go

[tardy vault]

The Skaven one is them dumping Stormvermin yeah

[tardy vault]

Yeah, it's a crazy good box for a faction that tends to be pretty expensive.

The Sylvaneth box unfortunately has 20 dryads in it but if you just need more bodies trees its fine.

[rocky shale]

If you do this battleforce for tau with the last tau one that I'm still seeing on shelves then you have a whole 10 models!

[tepid stratus]

What a missed opportunity for the tau box to be the 8

Just two suits short

[hard whale]

shrinkflation affects all of us 🙁

[rocky shale]

I think I'll be safe for this year unless I cave on the votann one

I haven't even fully committed to building votann

[broken dew]

Time to just make a sick ass custom chapter master model and proxy it as an available unit

I gonna need to figure out a proxy for my Saturnines as well

[hollow laurel]

What are the points for the 40k ones? I know I saw someone mention Votann are like 530

[broken dew]

Saturnine termies don't have rules in 40k, they are 30k models

As far as i can find at least

Or wait were you talking to someone else lol

[pastel rampart]

Oddly enough saturnine terminators are about the same size and general profile as the ol' boxy dreadnought so they can make for a decent proxy there.

[broken dew]

I was thinking it'd prolly proxy best as a Castraferrum Dread or a Centurion

They are sizeable fellas

[pastel rampart]

Centurions are the obvious choice, yeah

[broken dew]

Centurion did seem like the pick

Prolly a centurion Devastator squad

Make the Chapter Master a Captain in Terminator Armor

[rocky shale]

It's wild that the AoS boxes are almost 2x more points than 40k

[floral herald]

AoS points are in general higher I think

[broken dew]

Looking up some units for the theoretical army list i want to make and some stuff is in Legends, do those datacards work with 10th Edition

[floral herald]

Yes with opponent permission

[jaunty dawn]

Saturnine are centurions yeah. And centurions are also new obliterators

Ik new is like over 5 years old atp

[broken dew]

Ok cool

Cause i saw that for instance Deredeo and Mortis Castraferrum are legends

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/9/94/Terminator1989-1.jpg

I'd personally love an updated version of this classic termie.

[past sphinx]

gotta love to see other helmets coming back

[pastel rampart]

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/neo-retro-cobra-back-exterminators ...oh hey there we go.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/brother-pridera

[broken dew]

Heh

Downloaded field manuals and datasheets to check on the plane

[mental birch]

Tau is just shy of 500

[rocky shale]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/AXFu0YU0A3

I stand corrected, 800pts for SM and CSM

[broken dew]

Fulgrim lmao

[jaunty dawn]

woah heads

[rocky shale]

The EC one isn't as many points but it is a good discount

Same with votann

[jaunty dawn]

everyone is hating on the sylvaneth box and I'm just here with my outcast army like yesss spite revenants

but also if it wasn't for me wanting to use drycha for kitbashes like that would be a bigger issue tbf

[rocky shale]

The skaven box is so close to being good but then it has a pile of stormvermin

[jaunty dawn]

also it's reasonable cause last year there were two big tree

[tired cairn]

Are dyrads in a bunch of the discount boxes and is that why people hate it?

[junior robin]

think it might be because they are one of the oldest kits left in AoS?

[tired cairn]

Ah, so the same reason people are upset at Stormvermin in the skaven one

[junior robin]

could have sworn they had released a second set of plastic of those with the previous AoS update 🤔

maybe people are just tired of swarm armies

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/b7qzhmxz/announcing-warhammer-quest-darkwater/

wow, and old world boardgame?!

with plastic(?) pestigors?!

[jaunty dawn]

I thot it said it was aos

Yeah ghyran

[junior robin]

wtf

I thought beastmen where gone from AoS...

[jaunty dawn]

Mysterious

[sour sequoia]

Pestigors is rumored for maggotkin refesh

[junior robin]

here I was getting hyped for a reason to start old world

[sour sequoia]

Tzaangors & slaangors still around

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rcgz9jbn/customise-your-space-marines-with-a-set-of-fifty-new-heads-and-helmets/

Ok so

Am I tripping or do some of these heads look kinda feminine?

[thin ibex]

nah i can see it

thats cool

[upper canopy]

I think I see the ones you mean?

But they just kinda have full lips

[thin ibex]

i dont think any of them are blatantly so, but i could just be tripping the same amount as cyan

[mental birch]

Escher imperial fist recruits let's gooo

[upper canopy]

Like these?

[tired cairn]

Do you think there is an ordos that transvestigates space marines?

[mental birch]

It'll be funnier if its the Brettonian Knight answer

[tired cairn]

Oh?

[floral herald]

Yeah I think so

[mental birch]

Women can't Be Knights, How impudent questioning this Knight's gender

[upper canopy]

looks over to Repanse de Lyonesse
"What about-"
"Shut up?"

[sour sequoia]

World War II for chuds

[charred bridge]

Alpha Legion marine that just always chooses to disguise themselves as a woman (they don't know yet and it's a canon event)

[sonic hare]

the rest of these being around 500 is kinda brutal

[untold swallow]

They do and I hope this is how they squeeze the idea in it'd be so fucking funny

[floral herald]

It’s honestly one of the better options if they do it

[soft willow]

Explains where all the House Escher gangers recruited by the big yellow guy went.

[pale narwhal]

Tempted by the marine battleforce tbh

Two dreads + company heroes + a smattering of other stuff and the heads set

[broken dew]

Do we have any idea when Heldrakes started being made in the lore of 40k

[pale narwhal]

Post-heresy at some point (time flows weird in the warp/eye of terror)

[floral herald]

I have enough random space marines if I got it I’d have a space marine army haha

I’m not gonna do it… right

[broken dew]

Cause i wanted to have a ancient venerable contemptor that hates things with wings cause a Heldrake got him and his squad

[pale narwhal]

I am lacking dreadnoughts so depending on the pricing it’s very tempting

[broken dew]

Wanted to check that lore would support that

[untold swallow]

I don't run dreads because I'm weird and like my mechs to have hands with which they hold their weapons

[pale narwhal]

It very much would

[pale narwhal]

Valid

[broken dew]

Gonna call him Siegfrid the Wingbane

[untold swallow]

I have seen some very cool bashes where someone's given a modern dread a giant fucking sword tho

[floral herald]

I wound up with 2-3 random dreadnoughts for free

So I could run a super dread-heavy list

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-space-marine-2-dreadnought-gif-7495076671582279435

[broken dew]

No specific inspiration here lol

[untold swallow]

god someone made a BT Brutalis with the fucking Dragon Slayer

[pastel rampart]

There's no stated time period that they first showed up but it's safe to say "any time after the Horus Heresy ended."

Which, my gut feeling is "idk probably around M35."

[untold swallow]

HOLY SHIT SOMEONE MADE A DEATHWING DREAD WITH A SWORD

[broken dew]

Alao you can purify bits taken off chaos shit to an extent unless i am mistaken

[paper bluff]

folks really want the legions to have custodes stuff huh

[untold swallow]

?

Is there custodes stuff on that dread I posted?

[sour sequoia]

Dread with big sword is a custodes thing iirc

[pastel rampart]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/60727616-050b-4776-968d-5dd6cc875879 I know what I want to use for a venerable dread.

[untold swallow]

Oh

I mean tbh fuckem

[floral herald]

It’s… happened for sure but it’s mostly from decades old lore iirc

[untold swallow]

dreadnought with sword is fuckin tight

[floral herald]

Kind of a strange spot these days

Since Calgar and Grimnar have em but I don’t recall it happening more recently

[soft willow]

Fists and Blood Ravens have a couple of these too.

Space Sharks too IIRC

[pastel rampart]

Dread with sword might be a custodes thing now but there's been conversions with dreads having them for ages and also importantly it whips ass.

[desert jay]

HH TSons also have/had a sword for their Contemptor, though it's khopesh shaped

[jaunty dawn]

Only cause its silly that custodes and swolves are the only ones to have a shield and melee dread

[broken dew]

Hmmm ok cause i thought it would be cool for Sigfried to have some parts taken off the Heldrake that killed him purified and attached to his chassis

[soft willow]

https://tenor.com/view/space-marine-warhammer-40k-leandros-codex-astartes-does-not-support-this-action-gif-3308169791359741791

[pale narwhal]

Hunger and Slake as far as we know aren’t chaos relics, if anything they’re archaeotech

[soft willow]

But also it would be baller, do it.

[jaunty dawn]

Theres chaos weapons all over the place

[pastel rampart]

Entirely possible. Another option is to have a sick-ass banner on top of the dread illustrating his battle with the heldrake.

But I'm also a sick-ass banner enthusiast.

[jaunty dawn]

Wrestling it

[paper bluff]

This post brought to you by space wolves gang

[soft willow]

Have parts and a sick ass banner.

[untold swallow]

speaking of a lesser implementation of 'giant hulking metal bastard with a giant sword' my chapter champ is a lone-op termie who uses a dead Canoness friend's Paragon War Blade

[thin ibex]

I forget is the truly classic dread even real in lore? Or are they fully retconned out?

[soft willow]

Hang it's head on the top of the banner as a trophy.

[broken dew]

True

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Furibundus_Dreadnought They've never retconned it out but it hasn't really gotten any mention after the RT era.

[broken dew]

Consider: Contemptor wearing Heldrake wings as a cloak

[paper bluff]

a custom iron hands iron father dread would kick ass

[sour sequoia]

Fuck it I’m doing this with a raven guard sat dread now

The thing fucking gets the shadow walking rule you literally can’t shoot it because it’s aura farming

[broken dew]

The Inquisition will ask why the ancient venerable dread is wearing chaos markings

But he'll look baller as shit

[paper bluff]

isn't that the ancorite?

[jaunty dawn]

Fwiw the heldrake is much bigger than a contemptor :(

So more like a bridal train than a cloak

[broken dew]

Yeah it'd just be parts of its wings

[paper bluff]

saturnine dread time

[sour sequoia]

Still fucks as a bridal trail ngl but the sat dread should be big enough for a cape

[broken dew]

The idea is that Siegfrid dealt a truly crippling blow to the Heldrake and it was killed by termies due to his efforts

So they nabbed some trophies for him

[sour sequoia]

Dumbass model its so big

[broken dew]

Yeah Saturnine dreads are enormous

[sour sequoia]

Same base size as a keeper of secrets/lord of change and stanced the fuck up

[pastel rampart]

As big as a dreadknight.

[broken dew]

Appreciate nobody calling me out on shamelessly ripping off Siegfried the dragon slayer

It's what GW would have done tho

[pastel rampart]

Which honestly you could kitbash the saturnine dread into a dreadknight with very little effort.

[broken dew]

That's the baby carrier right

[sour sequoia]

Have already seen a few people do it since the dreadknight is what it is

[misty violet]

It makes me sad the Saturnine dread doesn't have any melee options itaelf

But I suppose that is important for making sure it isn't just the telamon again and/or a straight upgrade to the leviathan

[broken dew]

This is so fucking stupid looking

[broken dew]

Do Saturnines not have a fist weapon

[misty violet]

The terminators do, the dread doesn't

It's only got ranged arm options

[broken dew]

Ahhh

Yeah i was thinking of the termies

[sour sequoia]

Sat Dread exists to field superheavy guns on a Walker body which I honestly kind of appreciate

[broken dew]

Yeah that's pretty based

[untold swallow]

I mean Freyja just stealing mythology is a tried and true GW tradition

Lion: Son of the Forest's first chapters is just The Fisher King story from Arthurian Myth

And it's fucking cool!

[broken dew]

Yeah

[untold swallow]

The Lion is literally Arthur with daddy issues and drowning in homoeroticism

[pastel rampart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/9rixi4/my_leggy_converted_nemesis_dreadknight_isnt_as/ People have done simple conversions that look way better.

[broken dew]

I did think that having a storyteller dreadnought that goes feral when anything with wings shows up based on Siegfried would be badass

[broken dew]

Yeah i've seen a few

[untold swallow]

I mean yeah Frey thats fuckin ballin

[pastel rampart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/comments/1ctn8nj/yet_another_dreadknight_conversion/

[broken dew]

But the base one is fucking stupid

Genuinely complete fumble, never seen a more auraless mech

[pastel rampart]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/4370212274/mid-nights-absolute-unit-uranus-walker?ref=share_v4_lx and this baller conversion kit

[untold swallow]

The fucking base dreadknight is dogshit

[pastel rampart]

https://i.etsystatic.com/35179018/r/il/cb5de9/7259628118/il_794xN.7259628118_90y1.jpg

[broken dew]

I don't know how they managed cause the Penitent Engine does the exact same thing but it doesn't suck absolute dogshit

[untold swallow]

Oh? My fucking God???

[broken dew]

Yeah that fucks

[untold swallow]

If only the rest of the GK range got updated to not be s h o r t

[broken dew]

Tbf to Penitent Engines have a reason to do that

The Grey Knights just forgot what they were doing when making the Dreadknight or something

[pastel rampart]

It should be noted that the dreadknight came out in 2011, which was the last time the GK got a range refresh. It's old now.

[broken dew]

Fair

[floral herald]

The dreadknight mostly just suffers from horribly boring posing

[broken dew]

That also does tend to make things look more shit

[untold swallow]

It's also poorly named

It has so much just

giving critics (and haters like me) ammo against it

[desert jay]

Also if you insist on it being piloted, people have done conversions with the Invictor torso

[pastel rampart]

GW model range for marines at that time was all over the place in terms of quality because they weren't quite yet comfortable with their 3D modeling. Lots of marine models looked bloated and overdetailed, something they've largely moved away from.

GK desperately need a refresh but since they got an upgrade sprue for the nemesis I don't think that's happening for another couple years yet.

[desert jay]

Well, the Nemesis is sticking around but an infantry refresh might be in the works?

[pastel rampart]

I hope so.

[desert jay]

I think Nemesis also looks worse if you have more than one on the table because they're all more or less in that same stiff awkward pose, and sometimes the meta meant yeah taking multiple in a list

[broken dew]

Makes sense

[pastel rampart]

https://miniset.net/files/set/dfg-15lv-001-0.jpg I've got two of these Dreamforge Games 15mm Leviathans that I got for real cheap (alongside weapons) and they're the same size as a dreadknight.

one day I'll convert them to look more GK-like.

[desert jay]

I mean I think mostly you'd just need a pile of candles and purity seals stuck on

[pastel rampart]

Well, and some letter scribblings that they like to throw on their armor.

[desert jay]

Okay true

[pastel rampart]

It's like 80% of the way there.

https://miniset.net/files/set/dfg-15lv-001-10.jpg

[desert jay]

AEGIS TERRA VICTOR MORTIS actually goes pretty hard

[untold swallow]

I will say it ironically doesn't look very Warhams to me

[broken dew]

Ok i've got 4 named characters now

[pastel rampart]

They could easily be titans for AT too.

[untold swallow]

It looks more like something from E.Y.E.

[pastel rampart]

A bit, yeah. But I think it still looks better than the official model.

[vital barn]

my favourite stompy thing remains the Thanatar-Calix

about saturnine dread sized

[pastel rampart]

It's also the only model kit I've ever had that needs a goddamn screwdriver, haha

[untold swallow]

I mean yes but is that hard lmao

[untold swallow]

this surprises no one, Magos-Dominus Miscellaneous

[vital barn]

nobody has ever used that giant hammerhand to do anything, it can't punch for toffee and wants to stand still forever to hold down the lascannon button anyway

but sometimes you need a fist that can fold a land raider for drip purposes

[pastel rampart]

Not at all. And since at the time I spent like $30 per model it was a very easy choice lmao

[untold swallow]

l m a o

[broken dew]

Chapter Master Abachyle Phayne; The Duskbreaker, Lord Vigilant Rector Immagan Kannt; The Warptracker, Venerable Ancient Dreadnought Aristychor the Earthscorcher and Venerable Ancient Dreadnought Siegfrid the Wingbane

Name game is on point which i am quite pleased with

[untold swallow]

the fuck is a lord vigilant

[broken dew]

Lord Vigilant Rector is the Dusk Defiant's elected equivlent of Master of Sanctity

[untold swallow]

Ahhh

I thought he was gonna be Master of the Watch or some such

[broken dew]

He leads the Steward Vigilant Rectors of the Synod of Internal Sanctity who oversee the Regulator Vigilants

[untold swallow]

Oh you have changed like the entire Reclusiam heirarchy haven't ya XD

[floral herald]

Also a naming collision with AoS which is mostly an excuse to post the model

[broken dew]

As a whole he's responsible for their chaplaincy and serves as second in command to the Chapter Master

[untold swallow]

very interesting that someone otherwise outside of command staff is second in command, but very cool

introduces some fun potential conflict with the First Captain

[broken dew]

They have 10x normal chaplaincy numbers so they have a council of the most senior members headed by an elected member of the council to work with the Chapter Master and oversee their chaplaincy as a whole

The current elected lord of the council which is called the Synod of Internal Sanctity is Immagan Kannt

[desert jay]

Does "looking scary enough no one wants to tangle with it in melee" count as a use?

[broken dew]

In general the Dusk Defiant field an extreme excess of all their specialists, basically having a 10x multiplier to all their specialists

[untold swallow]

Jesus Christ

Okay so, Freyja I will point out

[broken dew]

This is for redundancy purposes, msking up for deficiencies, and in the case of the chaplaincy, extreme caution

[untold swallow]

That means your Chapter has a number of Chaplains equivalent to a full Company

[broken dew]

Yes

The chaplains are the main one they leep topped up

Why?

Typhus the Traveler

This is the same reason the Dusk Defiant field no psykers

[broken dew]

Which is why they field such an excess of their librarian equivalents

[untold swallow]

Okay, if they also have subsumed the numbers which would take up the Librarius, that is less insane

[broken dew]

They have a dedicated anti-daemon company in place of the librarius but it's not always at 10x strength

Neither is their techmarine equivalent

Or their apothecaries

[pastel rampart]

"Who needs apothecaries when you have faith in the Emperor!" - company that has an unusual amount of dreadnoughts

[broken dew]

They mainly try to maintain an excess of apothecaries

Techmsrines just get to have lots of trainees

[pastel rampart]

I imagine any techmarine trainee is just "the ones who survived test-firing a plasma gun."

[untold swallow]

You know which fuckery I hate the most regarding the shifting of the roles of the reclusiam, apothecarion and librarium?

[floral herald]

The librarius is usually pretty small though - weirdly consistently 27 for the ultramarines

[untold swallow]

Druids in the Emperor's Spears

Druids make no fucking sense

[broken dew]

However they have an absolute focus on maintaining their chaplaincy at around 100 marines before the codex limits got sorta repealed

The goal is 10 chaplains per 100 marines with one senior chaplain per 10

[untold swallow]

Oh okay reading the lore it makes

a modicum more sense

All the roles are called Druids, but each do their specific specialty plus the duties of an Apothecary

[broken dew]

The Dusk Defiant field literally no psykers so they make up for it by having more bodies to throw at demons

[floral herald]

So they just kill off psychic recruits or something?

[broken dew]

Death or exile

[untold swallow]

My Librarius and Reclusiam have a perhaps oddly close relationship for a Chapter

[broken dew]

It's horribly wasteful but no fucking warp bullshit allowed

[untold swallow]

Cuz of what little is known of their patron Saint, the Ashen One, one thing most definitely known is they were a psyker

So Librarians are basically

[broken dew]

The only psykers allowed anywhere near their ships are navigators and very limited retinues of astropaths

[untold swallow]

God wtf are those Jewish scholars who don't preach but are extremely versed in the Torah and Judaic law???

[broken dew]

They hate all things warp

In fact

[untold swallow]

They're the academic monks to the Chaplaincy's preachy monks

[broken dew]

Whenever they collaborate with other chapters the Regulator Vigilants have clear orders from Immagan to perform chants and prayers to sanctify the chapter against the warp powers of any librarians that are present

And no librarians or sanctioned psykers aside from nagivators and astropaths are allowed on any of their major ships unless absolutely necessary

[untold swallow]

resists urge to think of a moment where our Chapters have to collaborate in a warzone and my CM insists on bringing his Chief Librarian to a war meeting to fuck with the Dusk Defiant

[broken dew]

They would never make it to the Indefatigable's Return

[untold swallow]

lmao nice

[broken dew]

No non-chapter members are really allowed on the Dread March so it wouldn't matter

But they'd need to leave the Librarian to meet on the Indefatigable's Return

They would convene on obe of the chapters small ships, convene on one of the collaborating chapters ships, or on a neutral location

[untold swallow]

lol ye

Also, extremely cursed idea incoming

[broken dew]

Any ship the librarian stepped on would need to be fully re-sanctified from top to bottom

[untold swallow]

One of my Captains, the first to cross the Rubicon Primaris, basically saw the Reivers and went 'bet' and made his own version for the Chapter called Huntsmen

And I just had the idea, since I'm making monk marines who are all in robes and shit

What if I just made him look like fucking Ghost from COD

but like in a hood

[pastel rampart]

I gotta sit down and write out some stuff for my retro Blood Angels army I got on the backburner.

[broken dew]

Lmao

[untold swallow]

Look I'm making an army of fucked up spacemen I'm allowed to be 12 again for 1 (one) character

[pastel rampart]

I'm kinda working in conjunction with a friend who has a tyranid army they're slowly painting and we decided to share base schemes of an ice planet, so I wanna incorporate a little more into it.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/591429239211950081/1424568378697191485/20251005_212440.jpg?ex=68e46c30&is=68e31ab0&hm=67dd40a3cd906872a1d0311867b127dc875531515728330f4b262300fdccaba3&

Which, their nids kick ass.

[broken dew]

Rad nid

But yeah my chapter is

Not very good at dealing with other chapters

Giving all psykers the bombastic side eye and cleansing all equipment they even touch in holy purging flsmes and doing one hundred rituals to cleanse them does not give a great impression

They actively avoid more warp active chapters

If they ever met the Blood Ravens they'd be liable to just turn around rather than try to reinforce them

[untold swallow]

lmao

My Chapter is exactly the opposite to yours in that they view their Librarians as holy

[broken dew]

Not only because they use lots of psykers but because they steal shit

[untold swallow]

So they would be gravely fuckin insulted

[broken dew]

And any shit they steal would be massively tainted

[untold swallow]

My Chapter's Librarius isn't oversized, and they acknowledge the danger of psykers, they just view it in a 'god gives his greatest battles to his greatest soldiers' way

[broken dew]

They'd be honor bound to not just get it back but pay the Blood Ravens back for possibly tainting their relics beyond saving

[broken dew]

Makes sense

Again their hatred of the Warp stems from Typhus

So they are mega serious about it

To the point of fielding 10x chaplains basically

[untold swallow]

Once or twice a character in my Chapter's been both a Chaplain and a Librarian (don't tell the more lore stickler homebrewers)

[untold swallow]

Ye

[vital barn]

psykers aren't real but we take care not to rad-poison the navigators

this is the extent of my dudes' psychic capabilities

except Crysos Morturg, who is a biomancer that uses most of his powers to keep his Dreadnought level of life-sustaining augmentations together

[broken dew]

Tbc this is also a result of extreme fear and caution

one single marine doomed their entire legion and Father

It will NOT happen again

[spice flicker]

Trying to help a friend who is interested in playing a space marine army but doesnt know where to start. He is looking at starting around 1000 pts so I told him to look at the different combat patrol boxes and just combine two together since most should be around 500 points no? Which two combat patrol (or start collecting box or something like that i guess) boxes would you recommend he gets?

[untold swallow]

How does he uniquely add cope to the situation?

[rocky shale]

Combat patrol + the new Christmas box would probably be really solid. What part of space marines does he like?

Combat patrols are ideally around 500 pts but a lot fall short

[vital barn]

I beg your pardon?

[untold swallow]

If the Chapter 'doesn't have psykers' but he's a biomancer, then does that not require some cope on his part?

[vital barn]

he's loyalist Death Guard, so he coped with it by being abandoned on Istvaan III and killing several hundred traitors

actual canon character, I'm just expanding on Morturg and Decima's Excellent Adventure as a side army

[untold swallow]

Oh

[broken dew]

Good job Morturg

[charred bridge]

Morty didnt keep eyes on this one guy and now deathguard are chaos tainted

[broken dew]

Ayup

[spice flicker]

He likes the vehicles, terminators, gravis, and melee when I asked him. I pointed him towards the Imperial fists box but wasnt sure what else to recommend.

[broken dew]

The Dusk Defiant are not particularly keen o letting it hapoen again

[charred bridge]

Do what Space Wolves do

[untold swallow]

WAIT IS HE THE FUCKER WHO LOOKS LIKE JASON STATHAM?

[vital barn]

my other army does a little bit of daemonic warptech but is otherwise fairly normal alpha legion + darkmech

[charred bridge]

Rebrand your psykers to legally distinct Rune Priests

[vital barn]

...oh yeah he kind of does

[upper canopy]

Lmao

[vital barn]

although that art came out many years after I first read the first Horus Heresy campaign book with his testimony in it

[broken dew]

Honestly the person you most have to worry about when it comes to being a Psyker near Dusk Defiant is Immagan

The two reasons he was picked to be Lord Vigilant Rector are that he's cracked at boosting morale

And he's almost supernaturally good at sniffing out psykers

His titles reflect this as they call him Warptracker and Rallying Bastion

[untold swallow]

I also didn't know he like, knew he was a Librarian but then Morty shuttered the Librarius of the Death Guard

I thought he was on some rune priest esque cope

[pastel rampart]

But does he dance like Jason Statham.

[broken dew]

It would be fun for Dusk Defiant to meet the Vlka Fenryka and end up freaking out mid meeting upon seeing a Rune Priest

"Abachyle, i don't mean to alarm you, but that 'Rune Priest' is totally a psyker..."
"A what, we were reassured warp taint would not be an issue"
"Yeah no i don't know why they said that, that's definitely a psyker..."
"... Order a full retreat of the men back to the safety of the fortress, prepare the vigilants for purification, we'll hold the rear guard"

[untold swallow]

l m a o

Also, I have a pet peeve I wanna air out for librarians

Our codex armor color is stupid

For a full set at least, imo

If the codex said the right shoulderpad had to be the color and symbol of the specialization, fine

But the entire set being like

cerulean, looks terrible

[broken dew]

Sounds bad

[untold swallow]

The past editions' paintjobs, especially of Epic Hero librarians, haven't helped

The new librarians look fine, tho they just look like normal Ultramarines colors if slightly darker

But Ezekiel looks rough

[broken dew]

What's he look like

[vital barn]

oh, yeah, he was an extremely normal psykerman

[broken dew]

Why is he Ultramarine flavored

[rocky shale]

Maybe like the Imperial fist box and the new Christmas box? The company heroes in both would be a little excessive but otherwise OK.

[vital barn]

his lore is this page of testimony in the first HH book and one short story, which is the level of "unique character" I am a lot more comfortable putting in my army

he's just a particular Some Guy rather than this galaxy-spanning figure who I will proceed to get killed sixty times

[broken dew]

Mhm

Also fun fact there is a named Legion of the Damned guy, hos name is Attica Centurius

[untold swallow]

SEE WHAT I FUCKING MEAN

HE'S A DARK ANGEL

[floral herald]

I think that might have more to do with the sculpt being from 1996 and the studio paint job from like 2004 haha

[vital barn]

(Morturg, talking to some renegade DG who he's trying to convince to join him rather than murder him, having previously said "nobody survived Istvaan" as a bitter joke)

[broken dew]

The skull he's holding is called the Anima Malorum

It eats peoples souls and revives Legion of the Damned marines

[paper bluff]

marine necron res orb

[broken dew]

So their one single named guy is straight up a necromancer

[rocky shale]

There's also the new terminators battleforce if you can get a hold of one

[broken dew]

It's useless against the Crons and maybe the nids but it ought be pretty good against anything else

[untold swallow]

I maintain he's still a good example of Blueberry being an awful Librarian color lol

[paper bluff]

how about burburry?

[untold swallow]

Regardless, I think all specializations look cooler if it's just the pauldron that otherwise denotes unit type that's the specialization's color and emblem

[untold swallow]

a british luxury fashion house is not a color

[paper bluff]

chav librarians

[broken dew]

I'm definitely gonna make custom specialization denotions for my lads

I'm not making my Iconoclast Excisers ultramarine blue

I'd say i would do ond shoulder pad but i won't even do that