Warhammer and Such

[vital barn]

The long shadow of ETTS

[untold swallow]

...

of course it's fucking tts

XDDD

[upper canopy]

😔

[humble plover]

Bit late on this, but you gotta love the 5 witchseeker inquisitorial agents build

You can run 5 flamers and still have piercing from the pistolier and the gun servitor

[dense sedge]

alpha marines are in so many layers of subterfuge and double agenting that I don't think any of them even really know which side they are on at this point, and may even have been ship of theseus'd by chaos worshipping recruits

[stark cypress]

Or have the chaos worshipping recruits been ship of thesesus.

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s valid

There’s so much piercing in that team anyway

[rocky shale]

I really need to get into KT

I've played one game with corsairs and got slaughtered by kroot

[stark cypress]

I have two boxes of Tau Pathfinders

But they're like regular Pathfinders

...Should I make the finically irresponsible decision to buy more pathfinders?

[charred bridge]

A fun headcanon for me was one primarch was a leaning traitor while the other leaning loyalist and we dont know which one was which but they would never kill each other despite their differences. So after HH the Alpha Legion's loyalty is based on whichever one lived leaned towards but they still both sides it so not even the Alpha Legion knows which side they're really for.

[floral herald]

I’d be down for an online match if you want

[vital barn]

apparently the little servitor kill team is also a proper 10e unit

I play neither of those but it is a very cute box

I've always liked the "one proper techpriest directing a bunch of meat with surprisingly large guns" kind of unit and they haven't really seen much tabletop presence before, Kataphrons and Tech-Thralls are either too serious and expensive or too shitty

[west zealot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEGo41443iI

[rocky shale]

Might take you up on it since I don't have a 40k game planned

[rocky shale]

It's an amazing little action/objective doer

[vital barn]

I've always wanted proper Cult infantry

what's the limit on unit duplicates in 10e, still 3?

[rocky shale]

3 unless battleline, then 6

[vital barn]

yeah, I could get behind 30 servitors

they look like fun chaff, at least

and also serviceable 30k Thralls with a little judicious editing

[rocky shale]

It's a good unit for 60 points

It's only 9 since the technoarchaeologist is it's own character model

[vital barn]

24 servitors and three line managers then

[rocky shale]

The archeologist gives it +1OC and a deep strike denial bubble

Along with a big arc claw

[vital barn]

it's the kind of unit that I've always appreciated because it's inevitably very funny when a Terminator or Custodian gets himself can-opened by a tenpenny servitor toting a meltagun his boss found in the manufactorum QC rejects bin, and they do useful things in the meantime

[charred bridge]

This is actually what they Kryptman on /s

[floral herald]

The servitors kill team is really neat

Reminds me of the mechanic in mechanicus where you can spend points to make your priests do more

[jaunty dawn]

Mechanicus is so fun

I need to go back and finish a run

I think the modern design for servitors is a little bit too like. Clean

Like they havent changed a lot from the old metal ones that came with the techmarine but theres just something off about them

[floral herald]

They don’t look sad enough

[jaunty dawn]

I do like how big the gun ones are tho

[floral herald]

Need a more morose expression on the meat

[jaunty dawn]

Hmm

It might be a paint thing too

Wait is it the feet???

I think also an element of not changing the design enough for the increased definition

[vital barn]

also none with the mostly-visible agonised borg faces

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah at least with the faces they used theres none with a mouth

Which I think like really removes a lot of the vacant look

Angry with face mask is what everyone looks like in 40k

[floral herald]

The box does have some no mask faces but the studio didn’t use any of them

[pastel rampart]

Old servitors look like they took Joe McWarhammer off his job at the assembly line and lobotomized him without removing his work overalls.

[vital barn]

that is usually the way, to be fair

some servitors rate expensive outfits, chumps with heavy bolters aren't any of 'em

[pastel rampart]

Yeah. The new ones have a bit too much effort onto them instead of being basically expendable meat-borgs.

[floral herald]

Lore-wise the Battleclade is also like undercover spies an perfidy-committers

They’re disguised as normal servitors until the huge guns are revealed

[vital barn]

I think I'd like them more if they had more bare faces (in the box, so that's fine) and meat legs

not sure why they went with augmetic feet rather than Big Boots, and the old really chunky outfits suited them

it's still a very nice kit though

[pastel rampart]

It does match better with modern Admech.

[vital barn]

yeah

I think if the chest augments were painted in the same "big slab of riveted metal" colour like the old ones and the bodygloves were a slightly warmer colour I'd immediately warm up to them, and that's easier if anything

I'll try my standard green and brass look on them

[floral herald]

My plan is dirtied metal front plates and orange jumpsuits

I want them to come across as quickly and recently produced “field expedient” servitors where the priests just shipped in the guns and fancier control hardware

[vital barn]

One thing I always like about the Mech is that they can be wandering around packing the most advanced gigatech on their elites and then go "yeah, the line infantry are just meat with low-tech, high-calibre guns, making them good costs money" and not many other factions actually do that on the tabletop to quite their degree

Chaos is usually good at it, because they inevitably have a steady supply of cultists

Legion Inductii in 30k get surprisingly close, they're still Marines but they're explicitly green as grass

there's a great moment in the Schism of Mars book where a couple of companies of Blood Angels Inductii are getting overrun because all the tactics they really have easy mental access to are rigid, stock firing line formations and similar, which means they're no more flexible than the cybernetica they're working with, and then a veteran captain says something to the effect of "fuck this, follow me lads" and introduces them to the enemy Red Thirst first

I don't think I've ever seen a force of space marines written as unprepared like that before

surprised, maybe, but they always have their shit all the way together once they get over the shock

[stark cypress]

Yeah.

The Inductii and their status as canon fodder pretty much shows how fucked everything was getting for both the Loyalists and Rebels.

[vital barn]

Aster Crohne and his similarly experienced dreadnought bro kicking a few hundred total rookies into shape to just about complete that mission was also genuinely compelling, good campaign book writing

his mandatory warlord trait was "all Inductii lose most of their downsides within 6" of him" which sadly he does not have in 3e because we don't have Inductii rules yet

[floral herald]

I’m probably not free until next week but lmk when is good

[pale narwhal]

Played my first game of killteam with a good friend of mine! My battleclade vs her vespids, was a solid loss but hearing the probably second-best killteam player in the region say that they were glad they were actually trying was good

We had a big ol talk after about mistakes I’d made, improvements I could make, and what I’d done well which was really positive

Mostly just positioning my buff pieces slightly further back to stop getting charged and tied up/shot

had a fun double-breach turn via network override with my breacher servitor to get a direct line on their home objective (which caused them to completely abandon that flank) which was a solid play and I also realized with hindsight I could do some funky stuff with the technoarchaeologist and remote access to score the new retrieval tac op easier

[floral herald]

Nice!

[floral herald]

I might be playing Battleclade for the first time tomorrow, any tips?

[pale narwhal]

if walls are close enough you can use the underseer to dash the breacher, then network counteract to breach, then move and do it again on the breacher's turn which can potentially line up some funky pushes (just be aware hostiles can use your breach points too, so maybe don't use it if there's a marine on the other side

if you're playing the new crit ops etc, Retrieval and Steal Intelligence are the best two for battleclade- you can do the retrieval action on a marker from 4" away with remote access which means your technoarchaeologist can pretty safely do it depending on map

you cannot counteract and transfer power, it's when you activate not just -1apl whenever you have an apl available

keep your autoproxy and underseer back- without them you're not as accurate and can't hand out buffs and extra actions

unlike regular conteracts we can change order on a network counteract so you can use that to get a shot off or 'hide' a gunner potentially, compared to regular counteracts

5" movement hurts, so ladders are really nice for getting vantage

that's about it from my first game, still improving my own positioning etc but those are the things I've learnt

[floral herald]

Thanks, this is good stuff

[pale narwhal]

also we like baiting out things, don't be afraid to send in a flamer servitor to die so you can kill whatever kills it from a safe position

[humble plover]

Tomb world box got delivered!

[charred bridge]

Basically every Necron conflict

[pale narwhal]

I'm probably going to pick up the deathwatch kit separately bc deathwatch seem neat as a killteam (also once they hype has died down maybe theyll be cheaper secondhand)

[fossil violet]

Hey I’m an art teacher with a question for the thread: One of my co-workers got the set that games workshop sends to educators and some of the students who are otherwise not super engaged in school are really into painting the models. If they want to branch out beyond a squad of space marines what’s a good like, next step up in terms of complexity, model-wise?

[sour sequoia]

Brother my elite infantry is a 5+ save 1W model with a DeWalt Angle Grinder

[brittle salmon]

you chose this fate

[pale narwhal]

which fucks immensely

at some point I'm going to get some gsc just because the industrial aesthetic is so sick

am I going to cry painting them? probably

but it'll be worth it

[sour sequoia]

Honestly, contrasts help a ton for basecoating

I would hit em with the zenithal and then do contrasts for your basecoat blocking

Then go back and paint For Realsies

[sour sequoia]

6 mining tools in a 10-man, this strat means 18 attacks

Ain’t no way you’re not shooting the target with a ridgerunner first, easy AP -3 and a 50pt Biophagus gives Lethal Hits and +1 to Wound if they’re something tough but non-vehicle

[desert jay]

Honestly I feel like that's a hard question to find recommendations for just because of the buy-in cost of model kits

If cost was not an issue, would probably rec characters from basically any list (including SM), but unfortunately those are like 20-40 bucks a pop or something

If you want an economical option and are looking at per model cost... I guess look at various lists where their squads come 10 to a box, funnily enough some armies that are bad in $$$/point tend to be decent in $$$/model

[sour sequoia]

I think, oddly enough, AdMech or Guard or GSC infantry could be good? There’s like, fiddly bits and more diverse colors and they come in packs of 10

[desert jay]

Yeah, Ork infantry too like Boyz or Beast Snaggas

[sour sequoia]

You get a lot more textures to work with, learning to paint cloth and skin and metallics all at once

Orks would also be great actually I forget orks too much

They’ve got the space to encourage freehanding and the style to encourage messing with lots of colors and kinda messy first attempts

[desert jay]

You might also have luck checking eBay or model swap and picking up someone's grey pile of shame, esp if you're not looking for any specific models

[sour sequoia]

^^^^^^^

[desert jay]

And also if you are buying new kits, there's a common advice not to pay MSRP, it's quite easy to find authorized retailers selling at a discount

[west zealot]

Admech as racoons is great

[charred bridge]

Its like if racoons got tired of trash cans and found a way into your house

[desert jay]

Oh also another plus to Orks is that you do have all three of these elements, but also them being greenskins makes it much more forgiving if your color is off

[sour sequoia]

Greens are pretty straightforward to pull off and also obfuscate with warpaint yeah

Skintones. Are a whole thing, especially if you’re using citadel paints

<—————————————painted 6k worth of Ogor Mawtribes on citadel colors do not ever do this

[desert jay]

And also if you're too yellow your ork just looks like a slightly yellow ork and not jaundiced

Your brain doesn't go "oh, human is sick"

[fossil violet]

This is all super helpful, thanks!

[west zealot]

I always love this one by the same guy

The tech priest having a panic in the background of my favorite.

As is that IKEA exists in 40k + ships to Orks

[still warren]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/af8hxvxy/two-masked-combat-patrols-deploy-for-the-harlequins-and-death-korps-of-krieg/

[rocky shale]

Harlequins not completely forgotten about?

[floral herald]

There must be a lot of people who want horsies

They’re in all the death korp boxes

[tardy vault]

The Harlequins unironically probably have one of the better combat patrols now

[sour sequoia]

They’re actually the biggest dud in the box lol

The kriegponies have like nothing going for em unless you run the epic hero on a max unit

[rocky shale]

Buy 3, kitbash 2 solitaires into troupe masters then pick up a death jester and a couple more troupe boxes and you have a solid army

Ideally you magnetize the vehicles because that's just 2x of the same kit

[vital barn]

the krieg are all gorgeous, admittedly

[floral herald]

Yeah very nice models

[vital barn]

I do not have the budget to play Guard right now but if and when I start assembling the militia shitmans to support my space marine legions then I'm basing everything on the krieg artillery and field gun kits and changing out the crew

whoever sculpted/3d modelled those deserves a bonus

[untold swallow]

So I've seen a meme that clowns on Templar fans by saying the book they all like is about a Templar learning to act less like a Templar.

I assume this is about Helsreach and Grimaldus, but am admittedly confused because he seems to act very much like a Black Templar.

[floral herald]

Yeah it’s Helsreach

He starts off as a huge asshole and learns the value of being only a medium asshole

[untold swallow]

Ah

[vital barn]

meanwhile Sigismund spends the Horus Heresy books steadily ramping up to medium asshole (and giant zealot) so you come at it from both sides

early heresy Siggy is still a bit intense but by astartes standards he's pretty friendly

[untold swallow]

Sigismund goes hard as fuck

"You will die... as your weakling father died. Soulless. Honourless. Weeping. Ashamed..."

[vital barn]

Kharn vs Sigismund is perhaps my favourite moment of all of the Siege of Terra

Blood for the Blood God, yes, but at least blood for something

A lot of the Siege writing feels a bit overdone, like the writers ran out of new superlatives, but I think it works here

[untold swallow]

I wish Asmodai wasn't a unique example of a Chaplain wielding a non-Crozius

(No, Judiciars don't count)

[mental birch]

His grandmother once said

[untold swallow]

I am very excited to make rules for my homebrew chapter lol

High Chaplain termie, the Chapter Master, the Champion is gonna be a Phobos lone-op

The Chief Librarian is gonna be Gravis

Me when the only torrent psychic attack is Chaos

Fuck

[floral herald]

One true answer

[charred bridge]

Well I guess we traitors now

[untold swallow]

No one will notice me taking the Infernal Master's psychic attack and putting it on my Chief Librarian shhhhhhhh

[charred bridge]

We may not be allowed within 500 lightyears of Terra or we get shot at but I swear we're loyalists

[rocky shale]

Inquisitors have one

[untold swallow]

They do but it fucking sucks lmao

[rocky shale]

For how cheap inquisitors are it's ok

Shreds t3

[vital barn]

I am currently figuring out how to run my 30k Alpha Legion as 40k CSM and there's a lot of this

a Magos is like an Aspiring Sorceror, right? call it scrapcode

[untold swallow]

lol

[vital barn]

at least most of my special units transfer perfectly

Effrit electronic warfare squads make good Noise Marines, Headhunters make good Rubrics

still not sure what to use for Plaguey Boys

saturnine termies have the same statline but are a bit big

[pastel rampart]

They're close enough to a dread that the miniscule height disparity won't make a difference.

[vital barn]

they're about right for a dread, they're not about right for a regular plague marine

old-school 30k veteran breachers have a similar statline to 4th through 9th ed plague marines but are still too short

I guess the new Mk3 marines with shields wouldn't be too bad? bit of base decoration to add the extra few millimetres

[jaunty dawn]

Theyre the same base size too

I wouldnt sweat it

But yeah definitely the modern breachers (are they out yet?)

Just for proportions n stuff

[pale narwhal]

It’s a miniscule difference yeah

I’m using my mk6 as primaris and the scale is like. Fine.

[jaunty dawn]

Like i dont think anyone will argue abt whether infantry can use the shorter walls, its more about where theyre standing and just being consistent and playing by intent

[untold swallow]

my first homebrew stat line

part of me wants to give him an Extra Attacks power fist so he'd gel with aggressors nicely on the table

[floral herald]

That seems like a very low number of attacks for a character

[untold swallow]

Do you mean in terms of number of weapon profiles

or literally the Attack statistic

[floral herald]

The attack stat

[untold swallow]

Ezekiel has preeetty similar stats

and the flames of the martyr is just

[floral herald]

This is probably a typo but he should be T6 if Gravis

[untold swallow]

me copying the infernal master attack and giving the hazardous ver anti-infantry

forgets what T even is

Toughness

I am the dumb

[floral herald]

Ez has 4 attacks

[untold swallow]

Yes

[untold swallow]

with his force sword???

[floral herald]

Yeah?

[untold swallow]

Holy shitting fuck I misread that

[floral herald]

He’s even 5 attacks while leading

[untold swallow]

Oh the 'models in this unit' abilities apply to the character too

That's fun

[floral herald]

Pretty much all the space marine characters are melee beat sticks on the side

[untold swallow]

Cuz melee is fun

and fuckit I'll give him three attacks with Chaffrazer but give him an extra attacks fist

[vital barn]

I don't think we have the breachers yet, but the old shields fit fine on the new guys. There's less options in the new Mk3 kit than the old BOP one, which really was a gold standard for spare parts, but the new kit has these fun bracers you can put on existing upgrade kit arms to make them match, which is a nice thought from the designers

[rocky shale]

Isn't Gravis usually T5?

[untold swallow]

6, did a fucky

[sour sequoia]

Breachers n jump packs previewed, droppin in like two weeks

[vital barn]

ah, sick

I'll just hydra them up then

[rocky shale]

Gravis is baseline T6/3+

[vital barn]

30k breachers get T5 when they shield wall, which matches Plague Marines any edition save 10th

so with a little ingenuity I think I can make this work

[untold swallow]

I corrected him to T6 and kept his 2+ cuz epic hero

[rocky shale]

Fair, tho tor garadon is a Gravis epic hero that's still just the same saves

Obviously do whatever lol

It's homebrew

[untold swallow]

God damn Tor has a 3+?

That unlucky bastard

[floral herald]

A lot of modern 2+ power armor saves are elided artificer armor

[untold swallow]

Zeke has a 2

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Fuck

[floral herald]

They just kinda stopped naming the armors people wear some time ago

[vital barn]

yeah, both 30k and 40k don't bother listing armour on the model any longer if it's not in the unit name, so there's a few guys floating around with 2+ saves for their regular power armour suits

in 30k at least they generally look goldier and fancier but there are exceptions

[floral herald]

Now Artificer Gravis Armor could probably exist

[untold swallow]

hmmm

I dunno if my chief librarian would have it when he already has a bunch of other goodies, tho...

[vital barn]

(looking at you, Dawnbreakers)

[untold swallow]

relic force sword and power fist

[rocky shale]

It does make rolling saves easier if it's all the same base armor save

A sword named chaffrazer being D3 damage with low attack count is funny

[untold swallow]

corrected, is 4 attacks now

I horribly misread ezekiel's statline

and thought traitor's bane had one attack lol

I'm varyingly drawing on Infernal Master, Cap in Gravis, and Zeke as my balance touchstones

updated statline

[rocky shale]

Yeah the sword is infernal master with 2+WS, the psychic is the same attack with anti infantry 4+ (which is very strong with the dev wound ability)

[untold swallow]

Toooo strong?

[rocky shale]

Depending on point cost

[untold swallow]

Riiiight now, he's 80?

[rocky shale]

Waaaaay too cheap

[untold swallow]

Fuuuuuuck me

[rocky shale]

Infernal master is 95

[untold swallow]

So here's the weird

semi-problem I'm having

[rocky shale]

Maybe like 110?

[untold swallow]

??????

I

Will point out Zeke is 75

[rocky shale]

It's a tougher, killier infernal master for the most part

[untold swallow]

mmm

ur right, fuck

[rocky shale]

Zekes psychic is muuuuuch worse

And engulfing fear is pretty meh

Most of his value is +1A

[untold swallow]

fair

[floral herald]

Yeah Zeke is mostly a buff bubble for Bladeguard I think

[untold swallow]

Meanwhile I've made

a combat monster who makes his attached unit also monsters

Sonuvabitch

XD

[rocky shale]

Comparing to an infernal master it gets the anti infantry+dev wound combo on psychic, +1WS in melee, +2T, +1 save, -1" movement, then instead of sus1 he gives dev and instead of the self auto 6 it's psychic hood

Oh and it's 4++ rather than IMs 5++ and gets the 1 extra attack for fun

So yeah at least 20 points more

[pastel rampart]

Vehicles don't really have access points in 10th, right?

[rocky shale]

Nope

[untold swallow]

I mean in my defense the total of melee attacks stays the same

[pastel rampart]

Thought so.

[untold swallow]

I do agree tho

[rocky shale]

Fist is slightly better but true

[untold swallow]

I wanna try and make it cost 100 with these things in mind, and I think a step towards that would be making the invuln 5++

[rocky shale]

Funny enough the anti infantry 4+ basically only triggers dev wounds because S6 shooting wounds almost any infantry on 4s at least

Outside of like DG termies

[untold swallow]

Fucking God damn it

[rocky shale]

If you went 3+/5++ to match other Gravis characters and dropped the anti infantry then it would be very comparable to infernal master.

At that point you'd basically be trading the IM auto6 for psychic hood (slight downgrade) for being Gravis & psychic hood, then sus1 on rubrics vs dev on torrent/melta.

Oh and 2+ WS in melee which is OK but not a game changer

IM can't be compared exactly given that they do get thousand Sons army rule

100pts for this guy with 3+/5++ and no anti infantry would be totally reasonable imo

Quite spooky with aggressors

[untold swallow]

Question

What if I made Yield to the Inferno Anti-Infantry instead of Devastating?

[rocky shale]

Uhhh lemme look at how scary that would be on agressors

Wouldn't do basically anything for eradicators

[untold swallow]

I honestly am probably gonna drop the melta at this point

Guy leads aggressors, he shoots psychic flames and has Za Hando

[rocky shale]

OK it would rip on flamestorm gauntlets given that they're already twin linked

Into anything T5+

[untold swallow]

Okay im gonna just drop the anti then

[rocky shale]

Dev flamers are also quite good

See pre-codex Warp spiders

Especially dev with twin linked

They can just spray mortals into vehicles on occasion

With 3 aggressors and ignoring his own flamer that's 3d6+3 attacks, average 13.5, so let's say you get 13, 2 dev wounds then RR the rest because you're shooting into a baneblade and probably get another 2 dev wounds

Obviously does better when you're also considering wounding on 5s into just tough infantry

Then you still have a solid charge

[untold swallow]

Also for his lore I have him as one of the most zealous recruiters for his chapter

And not just of librarians of course, he selects those who display a fascination for flames

[untold swallow]

Final statline

[untold swallow]

Fuck I just realized I'm complicating the lore by adding this shit

Cuz now since I'm making rules for the Chapter

They can't use the Unforgiven aircraft

Fuck

XD

[jaunty dawn]

You could give them a rule like gabriel seth gets

[untold swallow]

I could!

But I also wanted to make Melta Termies and my own detachment rules

<XD

[rocky shale]

Melta termies would suffer a bit from 9" DS being outside of melta range for basically anything besides knights meltas

[untold swallow]

mmm, true

maybe not melta termies

[rocky shale]

You need sawed off lascannons

[untold swallow]

I did want to try my hand at unit making tho

[rocky shale]

volkite maybe?

[untold swallow]

And flame boosting detachment rules

and those would be incompatible with allowing the Chapter to still use Unforgiven shit

[rocky shale]

Arent there already like 2 flamer-themed SM detachments?

Unforgiven?

[untold swallow]

The overall name for the Dark Angels and all their successors

[rocky shale]

ohhhhh

[untold swallow]

Unforgiven, for the sin of letting their Brothers fall and mortally wound their gene-father

[untold swallow]

This is why I need to read even the generic attachment rules and not just my own chapter's (DA)

[rocky shale]

Wait cant you run the generic SM close-range detachment with DA models?

[untold swallow]

You can but also that's fuckin boring when I can use the one that juices Deathwing instead

At least in normal DA

(My DA list is very DW heavy)

[rocky shale]

Well wouldnt your flamer-themed detachment replace the one that boosts DW?

[untold swallow]

True

[rocky shale]

Firestorm Assault force is the close-range/torrent detachment

[untold swallow]

That's why I clarified for normal DA

This would not be normal DA lol

This'd be DA drunk on beer from Nocturne

[rocky shale]

I see

[gray basalt]

Bangles successor was mentioned so now I must mention my favorite Bangles successor

I need folks to know about the Blood Dragons

[untold swallow]

Someone should make a Blood Dragon character that just

Is Dracula

And not in the way all the Blood Angels are either

Just actually fucking Dracula

Cuz like

That's his name

He is the Bloody Son of the Dragon

[gray basalt]

They believe that everyone they kill's soul gets sent to see the emperor personally and be judged so when they campaign they just murder everyone

So if they are good they go to heaven and that's an ultimately good end for them and if they were evil we it's good they are dead

This slaps

This is basically all the lore we have on them other than they fought some Nids

[untold swallow]

You know I think this restriction of not making any new infantry is gonna end up a good thing

[rocky shale]

The biggest issue I see with a lot of 40k homebrew is people making like leaders + units that are fine on their own but specifically synergize to be insane wacko crazy

Like quirky S2 anti-infantry 4+ guns that have a leader that's like lol dev wounds now

But its like

20 attacks

[untold swallow]

lolwut

[rocky shale]

Made up example

Just from other homebrew ive seen

[untold swallow]

@gray basalt I'm making the Chapter Master, Champion, First Captain/Master of Sanctity, and maaaaybe the Master of the Forge as well

The Master and Captain/Chaplain are termies, the Champ is gonna be a lone op phobos duelist

[gray basalt]

Sick as hell

[hollow laurel]

Hey er, AoS question: Are the Sylvaneth a menace at ranged?

[tepid stratus]

They can be

They've got a couple of good shooting options but it's all low volume

[hollow laurel]

I see.

[untold swallow]

Okay I'm going slightly back on my word to not make unique infantry units

[vital barn]

from my experience fighting Sylvaneth, they have extremely annoying ranged skirmishers but it's not Skaven level of "welp, there goes my best unit, they had 50000 machine guns"

more shooty than average, certainly

[tepid stratus]

It's high value shooting. Kurnoth hunters shooting into elites will net more value than into a horde

And gossamid archers are mostly harassers

Drycha used to be anti horde shooting but now she's just a super blender

[hollow laurel]

I see. My point of comparison is er. Warhammer 3 Wood Elves.

Where they are just A MENACE.

[vital barn]

Gossamids are real little shits, yeah

I had a reasonably good time against them with Ossiarchs but mostly because my Morghasts picked up their chaff and treelords before they could be issues and at that point the shooting didn't really have the leverage to get me off the points

although they did do a number on my horsies

[tepid stratus]

Naw not even close to that shooting. The comparisons in AOS for that level of shooting is cities, skaven and karadron

[hollow laurel]

Karadron are the flying dorfs, right?

[tepid stratus]

Sylvaneth shooting is more comparable to tomb kings. Some annoying skirmishers with a coupe big elite bows

[tepid stratus]

Yup!

[hollow laurel]

I heard Ushabti with Greatbows. :3

But yeah, my Old World knowledge is largely Total War, so er. Dawi ❤️

[tepid stratus]

That's basically what kurnoth hunters functionally are for sylvaneth

[tepid stratus]

Okay so you Makaison and his thunder barges? Just that as a whole faction

[hollow laurel]

I have an emote for this.

[smoky urchin]

[tepid stratus]

Ships, dwarves with guns and a pirate mindset

[hollow laurel]

Actually I think Jackie's actually the better option for this joke.

[tepid stratus]

Also big nautical themed if you like the old school diving suit look

[mental birch]

We doing old world?

[mental birch]

I still want a melee big daddy unit for

Ko

[tepid stratus]

Fucking same

[hollow laurel]

Half-chittering about OW, half about AoS.

[tepid stratus]

Their wizard hunter should have had harpoons instead of gas throwers

[mental birch]

Bloooojs

[mental birch]

Consider movement 3 big 50mm base

Models

They take like 3 slots in transports

Movement 3 is really funny aos design idea

[sour sequoia]

Spending my entire army trait to make the Warp Lightning Cannon move 6” per round

[untold swallow]

I think I've figured out a way to have my cake and eat it too in regards to making units and stuff @gray basalt @rocky shale

They aren't for sure Unforgiven

Chapter legend holds it as so, that their founding Chapter Master, Oskus Fingal, was a member of the 1st Legion for some reason separated from his Brothers and commended several times by Malcador

But it's not a sure thing

So they don't have access to Dark Angels shit

[vital barn]

a Heresy-era Dark Angel, being a sneaky bastard? never

[untold swallow]

Like Nephilim or Dark Talons

Or

Awareness of the Inner Circle and the Fallen

[untold swallow]

Beneath the vagueness, they are sons of the Lion, and Oskus was a Knight-Errant

[vital barn]

they're still sneaky bastards, though, that remains a historical constant

[untold swallow]

It's just

ye lol

Immediate post-Heresy records be like that

[vital barn]

so many Horus Heresy campaign book sections end with "and then the Dark Angels showed up and dropped WMDs on both sides"

[untold swallow]

dabs

This also lets me play with their lore a little bit

[vital barn]

hope you didn't think those fellow loyalists wouldn't virus bomb your imperial fists company just because you're on the same side and still in the middle of killing traitors

[untold swallow]

and have a minor quibbling over whether they're actually Salamanders

Because they're relatively nice to mortals and like fire

[mental birch]

Move 3 means you can't fall back

Hahaah

[sour sequoia]

If base to base!

There’s a lot of melee that won’t get closer than 2.5”

[mental birch]

Yeah fair lol

But its big tough and slow

[sour sequoia]

Haha. Tough. Yeah.

Ignore my three rounds of overcharging

[vital barn]

briefly got the skaven lightning cannon confused with the Mechanicum lightning cannon and went "wait, you can overcharge those?"

the Mech one has the advantage of having a faster overland speed than a land speeder on good terrain, which is hilarious

a lot of their armour is like that, I wonder if anyone's ever been surprised by a mechanicum convoy just bombing along a road at twice the speed your equivalent Guard armour would manage on a long overland move

"Admech macro-engineering corps deploys the roadlaying machine, burns smooth highway of atomic glass across the continent just to move their tanks around" feels like the kind of thing they'd do

[floral herald]

Another kill team game

Lost 5-8 on AO25 (lower scoring games) playing Battleclade for the first time into a more experienced player’s Heirotek

Also my first Gallowdark game

I’ll be real I don’t love Gallowdark

It’s a pain in the butt to assemble for play and the lack of scatter terrain makes the shooting feel really weird

[humble plover]

mhm thats very fair

Tomb World is in many ways just Gallowdark but Better

easier to put together, some actual scatter terrain, and teleport pads to boot

[rocky shale]

Is the design compatible with gallowdark stuff?

I have 2 full sets of printed gallowdark terrain, gotta wait for someone to make a compatible stl of the new stuff

[floral herald]

Yes

Or well

It can make all the same maps

[rocky shale]

I meant like do the modular parts slot together

[untold swallow]

I forget

Reivers are considered thoroughly meh, right?

[rocky shale]

Yeah pretty much

I think recently they came down in points enough to be kinda interesting but they're nothing too special

[untold swallow]

siiiiiiigh fuck

I wanted to make the chapter champ good at leading reivers

[rocky shale]

They basically have chainswords and bolt pistols with precision, do battleshock on fight, and do -1OC within 3"

And scout 6" + deep strike

[sour sequoia]

If Scouts were not The Way That They Are, reivers would be neat

Like GSC, Drukhari, some AdMech is actually scared of reivers for fucking up their gameplan - but scouts are simply so much better into everybody else in the role and still fine for those three

[floral herald]

No not at all unfortunately

[rocky shale]

Wack

I will just wait for someone to make STLs that do then lmao

[floral herald]

The Tomb World stuff is a different and much better design

Much faster assembly and breakdown

[thin ibex]

question anyone know how yield points work for the votann? Wahapedia seems not caught up yet

[untold swallow]

Hmm

I am tempted to do a Reivers sidegrade like how inner circle companions are a bladeguard sidegrade

[rocky shale]

In what way? They're a pretty cheap unit

[untold swallow]

I mean the main idea is 'they're an elite reiver unit so power swords instead of combat blades'

Though they're also not really ones for fighting for objectives I see them more as like

'Go, do a kill everything in this general direction.'

[rocky shale]

Power weapons would be like +1S +1AP

[floral herald]

Add another “chaos space marines” point :p

[rocky shale]

I guess that would be like upgraded assault intercessors (but phobos)

[floral herald]

Cause these MFs are CHOSEN

[untold swallow]

okay man look

It's not my fault GW hasn't made good loyalist phobos units that don't just exist to sit on their asses XD

[rocky shale]

wait does phobos even have different stats than tacticus?

its the same statline lol

[untold swallow]

Nono

1 less OC

XDDDDDD

[rocky shale]

The OC difference is battleline

[untold swallow]

ahhhh

[vital barn]

much like most power armour it's just different drip

[untold swallow]

Me when my sidegrade is just assault intercessors and reivers having a sexually charged rivalry

[sour sequoia]

The phobos ups is having deployment rules

[untold swallow]

tru

[sour sequoia]

Infiltrators is a rule that’ll win you a game

Infiltrators on Marine bodies is lit

But Marines players hate moveblocking

[untold swallow]

Notably only one phobos unit has infiltrators

The uh

The infiltrators

Oh, and the Spectrus Kill Team

[sour sequoia]

That’s enough! You can throw 60 bodies into midfield

10-15 is enough to moveblock anything shy of knights

Or is spectrus only 5-man

[brittle salmon]

Spectrus goes to 10

[west zealot]

Honestly, calvary is cool, I'm surprised it's everywhere in 40k

Give me roided up super horses for the white scars to ride

[rocky shale]

Some of them also have scouts

[west zealot]

Primaris horses.

[floral herald]

I think it worked out the chapters I wanna do for the Deathwatch team:

1. Watch Sergeant - Iron Snakes
2. Aegis - Lamenters
3. Blademaster - Red Scorpions
4. Demolisher - Blackshield
5. Gunner - Storm Lords
6. Marksman - Exorcists? Mortifactors?
7. Bombard - Novamarines
8. Breacher - Imperial Fists
9. Horde-Slayer - Raven Guard
10. Disruptor - Raptors
11. Headtaker - Blood Angels

Might do Brazen Claws for Demolisher and Blackshield Headtaker

Based off of what you can make with the box and chapters I like or think would be funny (I’m tickled by a Red Scorpion with a necron sword, or a Gravis Flamethrower Raven Guard)

[sour sequoia]

Humble suggestion for the raven guard fella with no bias at all

Do him up shadow haunters so he got the gold right arm and the silver right arm. Glitziest son of Corvus alive

[floral herald]

What’s their symbol?

[sour sequoia]

Not in da kit 😔

[floral herald]

The only (incomplete) picture I got was a weird skull so I might be able to make it from the Mortifactors one

[sour sequoia]

But its like, black skull in white fog

They got fuckall for lore but immaculate drip and their one canon mention was cross-chapter working with Azrael at the siege of fenris, so that’s becoming what I use all my spare space marines/heresy army for

[untold swallow]

Would basically making Assault intercessors but they have Scouts 6 and are phobos be too much?

They'd cost slightly more

[rocky shale]

Phobos changes basically nothing AFAIK

So it'd just be some points for scouts 6

Tho that isnt power swords like you said

[untold swallow]

I don't know if giving them power swords would be approriate

[rocky shale]

It'd make them muuuch killier

[untold swallow]

I worry it'd give off a like

a bad vibe

Of like

Overindulgence

[rocky shale]

Tho it does basically make them 2W chosen

[floral herald]

It’s pretty rare for space marines to be able to equip whole units with power weapons

Usually it’s just for elite formations or 1st company

[untold swallow]

I mean

They do be the handpicked of the Chapter Champ

Well

Im thinking of making them that

[rocky shale]

Bladeguards vets are normally your all power weapon squad

[vital barn]

do Marines not get command squads any longer?

[rocky shale]

No

[vital barn]

I'm used to Captains running around with their five power weapon buddies as basically the standard configuration

[rocky shale]

IG is basically the only ones with command squads afaik

[floral herald]

They do, Chapter Heroes

[rocky shale]

ohhh yeah

[floral herald]

It’s kinda just the boring part of the command squad since Apothecaries and company ancients are both characters

[vital barn]

Yeah it really is, damn

Only one power weapon, no wargear

[untold swallow]

I think I have an idea for what I can do

[vital barn]

The 30k generic command squads are interesting units because by all accounts they're very efficient but they don't have any boosted scoring and almost every legion has their own fancy elites that people tend to use instead

There's also a big boy command squad for Praetors and a baby command squad for Centurions, which I've always found mildly funny considering there's nothing requiring the relevant HQ to bring a particular squad

It's very possible for a junior officer to be embedded with his four much cooler and more competent friends

[untold swallow]

Woe, Bladeguard Reivers upon thee

[rocky shale]

So they trade 1W and 1 off the invuln for scout 6?

And smoke

And then they have battleshock instead of rr invulns of 1

Suppose it depends a bit of how much they get buffed by that character

They probably dont need to be more expensive than bladeguard vets since theyre much less durable

[untold swallow]

No change in WS, bladeguard is also 3+

[rocky shale]

Could honestly be like 75 for 3 150 for 6

bladeguard is 3+/4++

This is 5++

And 1W is wound

Bladeguard vets are 3W

[untold swallow]

I'm a very good reader, guys

XD

Honestly these guys should probs be 3W

They are vets

[rocky shale]

the invuln for the scoput 6 then is probably a reasonable trade

without raising them above like 80/160

[untold swallow]

But yeah lorewise these are the guys in the first assault rams or off the thunderhawks, engaging in sword & pistol action and making way for the aggressors, intercessors, and chapter command

Also I just got the idea of giving them a disembarking ability instead of what they currently have and aaaaaaaaaaa

[rocky shale]

Wouldnt that kinda defeat the purpose of scout?

scouts only gets added to dedicated transports

[untold swallow]

It would, which is part of the aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[rocky shale]

Dismount stuff is usually like detachment rules anyways

[untold swallow]

yeah

I'll just make that one of the detachments

[rocky shale]

Smells like emperor's children

Or WE

[untold swallow]

Hey BT have a disembark detachment

Leave me alone XD

It's not my fault the most crazed melee loyalists hate psykers more than WE and that's why im making a homebrew ruleset

[rocky shale]

looool

[untold swallow]

Actually

I'm not gonna make the Chapter Champ

I'm gonna make a Chaplain

Yes, a Phobos Chaplain, hush

[untold swallow]

Captain for the Pride Hunters

Fuck, hbp is supposed to be 18"

[rocky shale]

Why is he 1" slower than all the units he attaches to?

[untold swallow]

fuuuuuuuck

I copy pasted the statline for the librarian and forgot to change it

[untold swallow]

changed to phobos cap stats

[rocky shale]

seems fine, pretty much just a judicar

[untold swallow]

lol

[rocky shale]

And a judicar can go on blade guard anyways so really barely a difference

[charred bridge]

As a Necron stan, damn it's true.
https://www.rxddit.com/r/40kmemes/s/kj5kzQBvn9

[west zealot]

"Now, we need you to die."
"But I don't want to die!"
"Good, that's the spirit!"

40k lore on the Death specters.

[hard whale]

Love GW names. Are those a Space Marine chapter? Lost Aspect Warrior shrine? Necron cult?

[west zealot]

They're the 40k space Marines who come back from being dead as their trial.

You have to do it again for each promotion.

[hard whale]

like, they kill them on the operating table and revive them? Or do they all have to go outdo Orpheus?

[west zealot]

They have to will themselves back to life, somehow

It's less insane than the exorcists, who get possessed and then kick the daemon out by sheer force of will (which it turns out has a bunch of benefits, and yes the Exorcists are Inquisition pet project, how'd you know?)

https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/jcqh22/excerptdeathwatch_death_spectre_space_marines/

[thin ibex]

This seems at least a equally as silly as the exorcists chapter

[hard whale]

that is slightly less stupid than it sounds! It's like a grimdark vision quest

[thin ibex]

Space wolves do not in fact have to fight wolves for every promotion

[hard whale]

how would they? There are no wolves on Fenris

[thin ibex]

I don't think the scythes of the emperor have to use literal scythes

I guess the flesh tearers are one of the more literal named ones

[west zealot]

Literally mentioned them above

[thin ibex]

Oh yeah no that's what I was responding to

That's why I said they're at least as silly

Next we're going to get a chapter where you have to survive a bolt shot to the head to get a promotion

[charred bridge]

Dark Angel, not to be confused with Blood Angels, not to be confused with Blood Ravens, not to be confused with Black Ravens and yes this are all space marines

[tired cairn]

They are however all Angels of Death

Also, don't confuse the Death Guard from the Death Watch

[desert jay]

These are all famous SM chapters too, not even obscure ones

[floral herald]

I concur yeah

[vital barn]

reading the new minibook for 30k

they're doing a new model where you get a 40-50 page book every couple of months now, rather than one giant campaign slab every year and a half, which I don't entirely dislike

it's a good way to dripfeed new units, since 3/4 of the game can use the same list so everyone's getting new toys at a reasonably measured pace

and most of these units are conversion-OK and don't come WYSIWIG in the kits, which is a good sign for healthy ecosystem management from GW

[brittle salmon]

How're the new missions?

[vital barn]

haven't got to them yet but there's four generic missions and one narrative one in here

so if even one of them is good we'll have a full complement of six to play come the new year

if I can be excused a bit of lore nerdery, I quite like that the stuff about saturnine wargear actually puts some vague numbers on how many suits is "a lot of suits" and doesn't just say "yeah, everyone has a transfinite number of everything, lose four telemons, it doesn't matter"

The Salamanders were spearheading the Saturnine R&D effort and lost almost all of what their legion had at Istvaan, which was maybe 100-200 suits and a dozen dreads, these guys are not cheap even if they build more over the 7-8 years of the Heresy.

we even have a pretty forge org of all the saturnine units that they'd managed to actually deploy by the time everything went pear-shaped

with a few more squads undeployed

[brittle salmon]

Oh that's really cool

[vital barn]

(these units also have other stuff, they're just not listing the normal gear)

[brittle salmon]

That Pyre Wardens scheme is kinda great, actually

[vital barn]

also, cute little add to the errata for the four people interested in Titanicus: you can use the cool darkmech spiderbots from LI as Knights

[brittle salmon]

Oh, sweet

[jaunty dawn]

that's pretty awesome

[sweet solar]

ooooh

[mental birch]

Huh?

[past sphinx]

with the plastic fellblade comin i dug up the legends rules

and goddamn it, its just a worse castellan

[vital barn]

how's the Glaive?

[past sphinx]

i dont think it even got legends rules

a bunch of shit didnt make it

BUT MUKALI RIDERS DID!

A UNIT NOBODY OWNS

[vital barn]

yeah that fits with GW

no fun allowed policy in full effect where anything resin is concerned

[past sphinx]

i wont hate the drip but i think im one of the 3 people who even knew these existed before the new 10th ed legends rules dropped

[upper canopy]

I thought they were an Only War invention tbh

[past sphinx]

im pretty sure they where only sold for like 2-4 years

[untold swallow]

I think my Chapter Champ is gonna wield the recovered Paragon War Blade of a Canoness whose Order the Chapter fought alongside, who were slaughtered to a one in the war

[mental birch]

I have a thought

Mostly about custom scenarios for 40k trying to make a meeting engagement thst isn't just kill

For a map campaign

[thin ibex]

Anyone know any salamanders novels that go hard?

[rocky shale]

Once again feeling the "start an AoS" army just based off of how much shorter the games are

I can't let myself until I clear out more of my pile of shame lol

Very jealous of how spearhead is good and combat patrol is ass

[floral herald]

Look at the bright side - your hobby activity is tariff fortified!

[rocky shale]

looooooooool

[tepid stratus]

As someone who TOs AOS events... Boy is that matchup dependant

Spearhead tho is pretty quick

[rocky shale]

I think I have like 2k points of Aeldari unpainted still >_<

[tepid stratus]

But a full AOS game can go from an hour and a half to 40k length real fast

[rocky shale]

Is 2k AoS pretty comparable still?

Ahhhh

Im mostly interested in spearhead because it seems easiest to lure friends into

[tepid stratus]

If it's like, ironjawz and stormcast it'll go fast

[rocky shale]

Other than like kill team

[tepid stratus]

But any game with skaven or cities is gonna take time

[rocky shale]

I have 40k if I want to play a 4 hour long game

What im after is something that my adhd-riddled nerd friends could pay attention to for an hour

[tepid stratus]

For what it's worth I run tournaments with two and a half hour rounds and 95% of games finish within that time

[rocky shale]

It does seem faster just by virtue of less models on board

[tepid stratus]

Less weapons per model and less shooting is what saves time

AOS armies can hit a huge model count but because hordes usually don't shoot and all run the same weapon the only time killer is movement

[rocky shale]

I have noticed that too

Less random guns

[tepid stratus]

There's no rogal Dorn or repulsor executioner type model with 6+ weapon profiles. Most you'll find is 4

[rocky shale]

The only thing with AoS is I cannot find a faction that really really hooks me and I think part of that is that I have like zero lore exposure

[tepid stratus]

Most monsters with a rider will be 2-3

[tepid stratus]

Well if nothing else I can answer lore questions

[rocky shale]

I like LRL but it doesnt seem viable to run only the funky nature spirits

[tepid stratus]

They have detachments dedicated to the nature temples (that being wizard + troop + spirit)

Is it competitive? Kinda meta dependant but it is fun

But in general having 1/3 to 1/2 of your army being generic vanari stuff is never a bad move because they're just reliable jobbers that fill basic roles

[floral herald]

I genuinely don’t wanna talk about how much unpainted and even unassembled stuff I have

Got a job with a lot more pay when sales hit

[rocky shale]

Living the good life (for GW sales figures)

[rocky shale]

Yeah that's kinda the issue, I just am very meh about the rest of the range

[rocky shale]

Miniswap is kinda my crack so I end up just cycling out used lots sometimes

But I have like 5k of aeldari probably only 2-3k painted, plus my CK project which is like 60% done, plus a tiny bit of drukhari

I'm trying to get to a point where I have my crusade roster of CK painted so I can go back to aeldari, then save the rest of my CK for the next time I want to paint big machines

[rocky shale]

If they had a spearhead that was themed on that they would probably sell me

The existing spearhead is just my least favorite part of LRL being lines of spearmen

Similarly I like the gameplay concept of KO but dislike warhammer fantasy dwarves enough for it to turn me off of them

Skaven and Cities gunlines are similarly attractive tho

Unfortunately I enjoy elite shooting armies which are not a very AoS thing

[sour sequoia]

Simply run 18 ratling guns and 3 warp lightning cannons

You will not regret 18 ratling guns

189 dice of shooting on average with sustained hits, easy to achieve 3+/3+ statline, rend 1 damage 1

Fry lord kroak like bbq in July

[floral herald]

Someone will!

[rocky shale]

🤤

[sour sequoia]

Using two 170pt dipshits to send greater demons or someone’s stupid varanguard brick straight to hell makes people very upset

And its delicious

[tepid stratus]

Karadron overlords and hellsmiths of hashut are the only dedicated options for that. Sylvaneth and stormcast can flex into shooting but it's not their identity

[rocky shale]

skaven buckets of dice and blowing themselves up is also enticing on that front

has the skaven range been mostly updated?

I remember it having some really old stuff

[bright dove]

Just got updated, yeah.

[rocky shale]

Gotcha gotcha

[tardy vault]

Ratling Guns are fucking terrifying

there's rumors that the incoming balance update is going to tune back the obscuring rules a bit to make shooting more reasonable

which would help a ton

[rocky shale]

How does tuning back obscuring help them?

Or rather nerf them

[tardy vault]

The rumor I saw was that obscuring was going to prevent shooting outside of 9in instead of combat range

[rocky shale]

ohhh

so the issue is them shooting out of obscuring

[tardy vault]

No, the issue was shooting into obscuring

Obscuring made it very easy to hide units from shooting, stonewalling shooting lists from doing their thing

allowing units to be shot—albeit from close range—while in obscuring would be huge. I can think of at least one game I've played that would have completely changed with the new rules.

Oh, you're misunderstanding my initial statement

I was commenting that Ratling Guns are terrifying (which they are. If they catch you with your pants down you're dead)

but then I started a completely new and separate statement about a rumor about buffs to shooting because shooting lists aren't really good right now?

KO is kind of the exception

[rocky shale]

Ohhhhhhhh

[untold swallow]

Revised my weird bladeguard reivers and their HQ

[rocky shale]

No invuln on the captain?

[untold swallow]

I deleted the invuln from the wrong sheet 😑

The captain has 5+

the unit, none

Actually wait wtf this guy's invuln is worse than the phobos captain's

changed to 4+

[untold swallow]

Also I just realized I'm gonna do something weird

Lone-Op Termie

[tepid stratus]

Yeah outside of KO and some cities players who can make the teleporting cannons list work, slower, bigger shooting units are floundering in a lot of matchups

[rocky shale]

Oh lordy

[untold swallow]

TERMIE CHAPTER CHAMP BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Also

I am continuing

To not beat the 'reskinned Chaos' allegations I think

Cuz man

flamers and terror tactics focused on cutting off the head of the snake is turning out to be the specialty

XDDDDD

[rocky shale]

I'll be impressed if you can figure out how to make a lone op termies squad not disgusting

[untold swallow]

Oh not a squad

it's an HQ

well not rly an HQ

he can't be the warlord

But yeah he's the chapter champ

He's an assassin

With a greatsword

XDDDDDD

Do I give him a melta pistol to just be an utter, utter c*nt

[rocky shale]

Melta pistols are kinda hard to make actually good

Since they're like D3 melta 2 6" range

[untold swallow]

yeah

[untold swallow]

me when I make a character

fuck, forgot to give the melta pistol

[sonic hare]

more attacks

[rocky shale]

You can remove the epic hero from character or epic hero

All epic heroes are characters

[untold swallow]

fair lol

[rocky shale]

+1 to hit on something that has a 2+ WS/BS is uhhh

Not that useful

Counteracts debuffs basically

[untold swallow]

God damn it lol

Add 2 to the Wound roll...

[rocky shale]

Doesn't work either lol

[untold swallow]

lol

subtract 1 from incoming attack damage?

[rocky shale]

That with lone op might be a biiiit much for sub100pts

It's like a solo judicar but the attack count makes it struggle to kill stuff

[untold swallow]

100 pts now

[rocky shale]

What lone op does SM even have normally?

Liutenant with combo weapon

[untold swallow]

p much lmao

[rocky shale]

Yeah I have like no way to judge how tough this thing is

For the points

Roughly as killy as a justicar but no fights first but otherwise waaaaay tankier

Uhhh 5 dark reapers don't kill him 85% of the time?

10 with autarch in aspect host almost always do

What other termies get -1D?

Isn't that normally only like a death guard strat?

And it's 2cp

[untold swallow]

Deathwing baybeeeeeeeee

knights in specific

[rocky shale]

Deathwing knights are very expensive and critically do not have lone op lol

[floral herald]

DWK are also frequently the best termies in the game

(Part of why they get stuffed in anemic DA rules imo)

[rocky shale]

A 6W deathwing knight is best dealt with with like meltas or lascannons

And lone op turns off one of those

Or I guess like 1D AP2 spam

Fucked up xenos profiles like windriders host scatter lasers

[untold swallow]

I mean lone op also helps cover for the fact he is alone and cannot lead anything

[untold swallow]

looks at DWK cost it can't be that ba-

https://youtu.be/OuIZZQvySzw

He is now 110 pts

I will point out another epic hero with lone op tho

Our Boi Mephy

Who has two more inches of move, 1 worse invuln, fights first, and fnp 4+

And a better ranged weapon lol

[rocky shale]

No deep strike no 4++ does hurt

Obv he does have fnp

[untold swallow]

and fights first

like that's not a toughness related thing but that is very nice

[rocky shale]

-1D is just so nice I struggle to overstate it

But also like I am not a SM player so I might be misjudging the rest of it

[untold swallow]

fair lmao

[rocky shale]

Mephiston is a pretty nasty motherfucker since fnp 4+++ is basically just half damage

Which is the best outcome of -1D into D2 attacks

But he needs that 7" move and advance and charge to not just be slogging around, which deep strike does solve

[rocky shale]

Fights first would be a thing you could consider for your guy around 110 maybe

Hard to tell without like a playtest

[untold swallow]

Nah, I made him 120 and gave him 6" move and 5+ fnp lmaaaaaooooo

[rocky shale]

That works lol

You can get a charge off on him but you better charge hard

[untold swallow]

This is aided by Deep Strike and lone op

He very much is 'hi I have a character assassin I can kind of just drop on your ass later'

[rocky shale]

Callidus assassin at home

[untold swallow]

Termie callidus moment

[rocky shale]

Callidus might still be killier

Just not as tough

[untold swallow]

still

gotta love that my chapter has the classic 'assassin with greatsword' maneuver

[rocky shale]

Callidus is also like 90pts

Oop 100

[mild glen]

laughs in Skeleton Horde Army

[rocky shale]

on average

[rare turtle]

i've decide i will make an Atlantian spear army

or altleast paint a captain and jump pack assault squad

[untold swallow]

hhhhhnnnngggghhhh now I have to make a custom scout unit a la Crusaders cuz my chapter does scouts differently

fuuuuuuuuuck why did I do this to myself

[hollow laurel]

Jade Lancer? What colour scheme?

Admiral (she/her) ↩️

[(click to see attachment)](#1161696278640594954 message)

[west zealot]

Commissar Specters

They recruit only the finest child commissars who have executed at least 100 derelict troopers each!

[mental birch]

Eyuup

Movie Qin

So like northern china

Black + red trip

Trim

[hollow laurel]

Mm, good choice.

[mental birch]

Theres confucians to bury and mercury to drink

Roads to build and armies to levy

[junior robin]

oh man, the Haemonculi Covens combat patrol really tempting me now.

....oh no they are going to remove the rules for the grotesques aren't they?

never got a plastic kit and the resin one is gone

[gray basalt]

I can confirm they are gone

So are the alien court fellas

A few other units are gone too and I don't remember what

[main pagoda]

tbf they being gone could as much hearld a plastic kit seeing as they are not in the combat patrol

[gray basalt]

Truth

Grotesques are pretty important to covens so I suspect we are getting them back but updated

[main pagoda]

yeah

alien court stuff is more up in the air

[gray basalt]

Probably bigger too 😔

GW loves to scale creep

[main pagoda]

is that really a negative

[gray basalt]

I think so but only bc creep tends to keep growing there rarely is a stopping point

That's how you get Saturnine

[junior robin]

it is a negative when you have to replace 80 orks because they are the wrong size (or at least rebase them)

[gray basalt]

That too

[junior robin]

coven hype all gone now, probably will just remove their options anyway

[gray basalt]

Probably

I wanna pick up the patrols to use and play in 5th edition

[main pagoda]

models are for life rules are temporary

[rocky shale]

The codex is already leaked so we know what has changed

Grotesques gone but the remaining covens units are pretty solid, it's just hard to field pure covens

[desert jay]

AIUI pure coven is technically impossible now, it falls a bit short of 2000

[rocky shale]

11th will surely bring a drukhari and GK refresh right?

Right

[dense idol]

it's going to bring a sixth marneus calgar refresh :^)

[gray basalt]

Is that counting all the raiders and other vehicles?

[desert jay]

So with old points: 1x Urien, 3x Haemonculi, 6x10 Wracks, 3x2 Cronos, and 3x2 Talos comes to 1655

[rocky shale]

Vehicles aren't covens

[gray basalt]

Vehicles can be made to have wrack crew

The wracks kit comes with the bits to make them covens (they probably don't have the keywords alas)

[rocky shale]

Yeah but it doesn't give them the covens keyword

[tardy vault]

Don't forget the World Eaters and Emperor's Children range expansions!

[rocky shale]

You'd still certainly run some transports in a covens list regardless

[gray basalt]

I would still add them

[rocky shale]

EC just came out, they don't get to complain about a range expansion until late 11th at least

[tardy vault]

oh if we're talking about 11th at release

then yeah they will have to wait a bit

but exiting 11th without the other half of their army would be a bit of an issue (just like with World Eaters leaving 10th without theirs)

[sour sequoia]

EC honestly don’t need a range expansion compared to ‘literally just 1-2 options from predator, vindicator, helbrute, or forgefiend’

The army was extremely good on release, and back to a solid spot with knights no longer being “congratulations for opting out of 70% of the game, you can also opt out of another 20% and win every statcheck”

[desert jay]

Phoenix Guard as a replacement for generic Chaos Termie wouldn't go awry either, but that's sorta extra credit

[sour sequoia]

(With absolutely no venom in my voice from playing abandonware xenos factions) I think a ton of power armor players mistake not having the entire range for not having a complete range

[jaunty dawn]

Space marine codex chapter players like

[sour sequoia]

The genuine only problem with EC is as long as GW thinks current form of knights is acceptable gameplay, everybody else in the game needs some way to blow a cerastus off the map in one round.

[jaunty dawn]

Though also Ive gotten extra mad at eldar complainers lately

Like

Yes it took longer than anything else ever for some of the aspect warriors to be refreshed

They’re still one of the most consistent and prolific factions

[floral herald]

The eldar do have I think about 60% of the LoV roster in general in aspect warriors I think

[jaunty dawn]

Got like three waves during the 8 years it took for tyranids to get one model

[sour sequoia]

It is a fucking embarrassment a core faction took 25 years to get fairly core aspect warriors updated while every space marine player gets another 14 different Marneus Calgars/Sgt Cato Dipshitticus/Primaris Janitorius Guard

But Tyranids is also part of that

[desert jay]

Aspect Warriors range is currently 6 characters and 9 squads

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

[desert jay]

Calgar is the most egregious b/c even SM players are like "didn't we just get a Calgar?"

[sour sequoia]

Space Marine Players Born After 1998 Only Know Triple Vindi, Ballistus, Robusto Guillotine, Gladius Task Force and Lie

[jaunty dawn]

Its kinda funny how even for how many ultramarine releases there are now they used to have like 20 characters

[desert jay]

Oh and in comparison, the infantry portion of the Votann range is 8 characters and 8 squads (and that's with counting Steeljacks twice, and epic/non-epic dual kits twice)

[sour sequoia]

GSC’s at 7 infantry units counting acolyte versions and metamorphs separately, and counting purestrains which are literally just genestealers with Infiltrate and in 5-mans

[upper bluff]

Somehow harlequins are actually winning on unit diversity for an abandonware faction

[sour sequoia]

Very old part of the game, I still don’t count them as their own army

[upper bluff]

The fact Harlequins got a combat patrol makes me so excited for the future of harlequins btw they're too cool to be forgotten

[jaunty dawn]

Harlequins are pretty cool

[sour sequoia]

especially given they’re literally the most busted thing GW printed for 40k and I’ve never seen a “die-hard Harlequins fan” with an army painted more than basecoat, drybrush, third color for mask

[upper bluff]

Harlequins should the xenos custodes fight me

That combat patrol should be worth 1000 points in 11th

[sour sequoia]

I’d love to be incorrect someday but on god everyone I’ve met with nice harlequins has been playing them long before they ever had a codex as part of eldar

[desert jay]

Checkerboards scary

Also TIL they existed in Rogue Trader

[sour sequoia]

Difficult to overstate “old and classic part of the game”

[upper bluff]

I'm glad the paint scheme has always been intimidating

[sour sequoia]

I love em even if I loathe their implementation as solo armies

[rocky shale]

Give them a 2++ save make them 300pts for a troupe

[rocky shale]

I'll stop complaining after they un-forget Karandras lmaooo

Then we have enough of a range forever and if they wanna make more elves do quins or exodites or corsairs

[vital barn]

harlies are cool but even back in 7e they were a bit of a gear check

it's just back then it was "can you put >50 hits on target per round, quality doesn't matter" as opposed to the Knights "hope your whole army is AT"

I didn't have too much trouble with them because Skitarii radcarbines and icarus arrays ate them alive, nor did any meta faction (Tau had plenty of burst cannons, Eldar had infinite scatterbikes as their meta unit already, Marines had their grav rendered useless but were otherwise fine) but they would run over anyone who didn't just have a huge amount of anti-infantry sitting around

also, discovered that the first thing actually called Lorgar was apparently a rogue trader pilot

maybe Primarch Lorgar should have tried flying

[floral herald]

It’s interesting how most of the primarchs started life as just like normal guys

Not sure if Lorgar was actually one of them

[thin ibex]

Wasn't leman russ just some lieutenant guy?

[vital barn]

I think he was important but he wasn't some kind of superbeing

beyond regular space marine

[floral herald]

Yeah

https://external-preview.redd.it/aaEoYfNlhT_-eYYhwc0WT6YJ3zI_y9J4FmZ0sl8DvNo.jpg?auto=webp&s=4db5f0f21bfd40f41790e72d602910f7ee91c44d

If they bring back Leman Russ and he looks like this I could live with it

[vital barn]

borged up old man russ would go kind of hard actually

[thin ibex]

"Things kinda got real in the warp"

[sour sequoia]

Did you ever play the era of tzeentch daemons universal 3++

you do not want this. I promise you

[vital barn]

not to be confused with the era of tzeentch daemons rerollable 2++

[jaunty dawn]

Tbc I mean more specifically ppl who claim that eldar never gets models

[rocky shale]

Hahahaha perfect

[rocky shale]

We get models just not refreshes lol

[upper canopy]

My Eldar complaints are still solely writing related

[jaunty dawn]

Eldar get refreshes

They just had a big range to refresh and the priorities were arguably odd

[rocky shale]

Fair

The last wave prior to the aspect warriors was Rangers and the autarch and shroud runners as a new option

[jaunty dawn]

N guardians etc

[rocky shale]

Definitely a glow up for the rangers since they were finecast before

[jaunty dawn]

Avatar

[rocky shale]

Guardians barely needed a refresh which is the wierd one

Tbh I forgot AoK even had an old model

He's so smol

Little baby man

[jaunty dawn]

Even in 8th edition the spiritseer wasnt a given like it would be 9e+

And then they got banshees

[upper canopy]

Man

I am remembering how every xenos faction leader has been treated in comparison to primarchs

And im mad about it

Eldrad, psyker so powerful he is able to personally duel greater daemons and in fact needs MULTIPLE to THREATEN him gets defeated by Some Guy

Ghazgull, the ork to end all orks, gets killed by Some Guy

[rocky shale]

The avatar of khaine exists to get bodied by random SM captains every other Tuesday

[upper canopy]

I am glad we at least got one novel where he shows up and just melts a first company black Templar squad

[pine matrix]

Are these new sculpts? They got mentioned in the Sunday preview as a box of 10 but I can't tell if it's just a new release of old models

[desert jay]

Those look like the current Wrack sculpt

2014 release

[pine matrix]

Ah fair, they're look funkier than I remember

[jaunty dawn]

Its a reboxing from 5 -> 10 aiui

[gray basalt]

I love wracks so much

[upper bluff]

I love how Drukharii uphold the Aeldar tradition of having models that are so poor that you're practically expected to make your own and models that are a decade old but look so nice you could be fooled into thinking they're brand new

[gray basalt]

Like they are probably updating Wracks and I either hope they don't or don't change them too much

[rocky shale]

Drukhari have so much more to update before wracks

Like grotesques lol

[upper bluff]

grotesques getting cut is such a crime

like I get it from a marketing standpoint or whatever but >:/

[gray basalt]

Frankly we need more covens

Scourge should probably get the covens keyword for instance

[rocky shale]

Scourges are blades for hire

Since they're explicitly mercenaries

[gray basalt]

They can be both

[rocky shale]

Very few units in the game belong to multiple subfactions if their army uses subfactions like that

Lore-wise they arent aligned with haemonculi, they're just using wing grafts made by them

[gray basalt]

Yes but they need the wing grafts

[rocky shale]

Most drukhari in some way get something from the haemonculus covens

[gray basalt]

Indeed

[rocky shale]

Doesnt really make them fit covens

[floral herald]

By @nøttomuch

[dense sedge]

Covens need a range refresh and im really disappointed they didn’t get one

[gray basalt]

11th ed starter box is their time supposedly

[rocky shale]

So just skimming custodes stuff for fun

Is the way they kill tanks just "fuck you lethal hits" or is the giant resin tank the solution there?

[pale narwhal]

I’ve also heard it’s orks

[pale narwhal]

The caladius and also kinda bikes with salvo launchers

[rocky shale]

S10 twin linked bikes seem OK yeah

Or the lance charges to wound on 4s

Unfortunate that an otherwise affordable army has a resin monster as it's main AT