Warhammer and Such

[rocky shale]

Like for knights having one tyrant chassis is plenty

Nobody will ever run 2 tyrants

So like 14dogs, 5x questoris/abhorrent chassis with magnetized arms, and like 1 tyrant is basically the entire CK range unless you pick up cerastus chassis

I don't trust that GW won't legends the cerastus chassis just as a fuck you

3x every GSC character ooof

[hollow laurel]

Well, I sketched out a full platoon of the Air Assault Astartes but er.. It's 2270pt with transports. >.>

Without, it's 1430pt.

[rocky shale]

In advance I'd warn you that aircraft are generally awful in 10th

[hollow laurel]

..Ah.

I mean they're still weird because they form squads in 2 teams of 6 rather 1 team of 10, and each squad has an attached dreadnought. Ideally I'd use the Invictor, but Invictors legally aren't dreadnoughts so they can't be Stormraven'd.

[rocky shale]

Drop pods are maybe more the vibe

In terms of not being awful to play

[hollow laurel]

Hm, maybe. But then we detach the Dreadnoughts. I'll think about it.

[rocky shale]

I guess at least it has hover

Which just makes it a fast vehicle thats extremely hard to hide with terrain

[upper canopy]

Dreadnoughts can use drop pods still cant they?

[hollow laurel]

Nope.

They're Vehicles, not Infantry.

[vital barn]

what happened to the Dreadnought Drop Pod

the drop pod for dreadnoots

[hollow laurel]

Gone.

[brittle salmon]

legends

[hollow laurel]

Well yeah, Legends.

[vital barn]

man, they really are scything through those ranges, aren't they

I miss D-99

the gene-modded Elysians and their funky air cav list

[hollow laurel]

I mean the alternative is bringing teams of 7 in Impulsors but.. That's just not the same. :V

[upper canopy]

Man what the hell

[rocky shale]

New drop pod model tho

[rocky shale]

Just use deep strike for air assault flavor?

[hollow laurel]

Maybe.

[thin ibex]

the stormraven isnt that bad tbh

its not great mind

but its pretty useable in casuals

[hollow laurel]

Oh yeah, I forgot the Astartes Primaris have an actual tank cannon amongst them. :3

[brittle salmon]

Actually, 1 Stormraven is a core part of one of the best SM lists in competitive play for the past like, 8 months or so

[thin ibex]

i like doing stormraven lists cause you can bring a 10 man with a leader and a dreadnought, making a nice little self contained assault force

thematically they're very fun

oh huh that means they've been a sm staple for a long long while

cause for a while bringing 2 was a thing

and then it got a points nerf

[brittle salmon]

Bobby G/Calgar/Ballistus Dread in the funny gunship

[hollow laurel]

Dumb question: Can Deep Strike be used on the first turn?

[dense idol]

to my understanding, no, just like regular reinforcements

[hollow laurel]

[thin ibex]

in general no, there are, things that can be exceptions to that rule, but they'd outrigth say so

like logan grimnar, i think drop pods, and a few enhancements

[tired cairn]

Also if you can get a unit into reserves on the first turn, you can then deep strike it on the first turn iirc

[hollow laurel]

I'm off by 20pt on a 1k list and this is driving me up the wall.

[thin ibex]

i dont think thats the case, but i dont have the rules right in front of me

a lot of uppy downy lists dont get to uppy and then downy round 1

20 points is fine to be off by honestly

you dont need to fit perfectly into 1k

[hollow laurel]

Fair. Well, that's a fun list ported to 10e.

[tired cairn]

It's also kind of what enhancements are for

[hollow laurel]

When your frontline is a pair of Incursor Squads, you know shit is weird.

[past sphinx]

boy doing the lightning on this sucker is gonna be hell

its gonna be sick though

[hollow laurel]

The idea being they hold the flanks whilst backed up by Suppressors, then the centreline is an Infernus squad in a Repulsor Executioner.

[pale narwhal]

There has just been a pretty major shakeup in that regard, the warhammer tts discord got taken down bc the owner was advertising his shitty prints and so basically everyone jumped ship to a new one that is infinitely nicer

[rocky shale]

Do you have a character?

Suppressors are a funky unit even just by the fact that they're super hard to find because they were never sold by themselves

The gun is neat for what it is good into

[thin ibex]

Great to use in tts cause you don't need to buy one

[hollow laurel]

Eh, I play TTS, so..

[rocky shale]

The biggest drawback is that they are fast models with heavy, so they don't actually want to move

[rocky shale]

Yeah fair

[dense idol]

i thought the whole deal with tts is that it kind of self-selects for a poor community experience

[hollow laurel]

The idea is putting them on a rooftop et al and having them shoot down.

[thin ibex]

My read has always been "Hey to where you want to be and then don't move" sort of a "these guys can pull double duty as shooters or secondary doers thanks to the speed

[dense idol]

in that the typical warhammer tts player is usually there because they're not participating in a local scene

sometimes that's because of geographical or financial restrictions, but more often it's because they've been ostracized from their local scene for being a little too enthusiastic with sharing their black templar lore knowledge, if you catch my meaning

[thin ibex]

I feel like that might be an unfair stereotype to levy against the whole of the tts side if things

[rocky shale]

Yeah, I see them as more of a fast debuffer than something that actually kills stuff

3 MEQ bodies are just not tough enough to really survive in the open

[hollow laurel]

Sadly I'm in the geographical set. But like, I chose Suppressors because they're fast anti-MEQ.

And, importantly, long-range.

[rocky shale]

A unit of suppressors kills like 2.5 marines when they don't move, the AP1 is just rough

You can potentially do plunging fire but they can also get cover

[hollow laurel]

Mm.

Well like, the core idea is a long-ranged fire support for the Incursors.

[rocky shale]

The range, speed, and the debuff are the appeal of suppressors imo

[sour sequoia]

Oh hell yeah lol

[rocky shale]

They're just not that killy except into funky high toughness low save stuff like orks

[hollow laurel]

Any advice for alternatives then?

[sour sequoia]

I’m mostly just used to a guy in our local who brags about fighting the top european players in TTS but is always going 1-3 at our RTTs because he can’t actually play the game tactically in person / always flips shit when people find the answer to Seraptek + Silent King

[rocky shale]

It's not that they're terrible they're just way less imposing than the model actually looks

[pale narwhal]

(I know how shitty the prints were from personal experience sadly)

It’s a sick af server, everything and everyone worth noting jumped ship and the vibe change is very noticeable

[floral herald]

I’m glad to hear the vibe is better

[rocky shale]

For like a MEQ killer?

[hollow laurel]

For just fire support for stuff Incursors can't chew through.

[sour sequoia]

I actually like the idea of suppressors as a drop in for objectives and killing scoring units

75pts for 3 ain’t bad

Fire support stuff… centurion devastators get silly

I would use grav and missile launchers

[pale narwhal]

There isn’t a politics channel called ‘the thunderdome’ so that immediately makes it about 50% better

As does the new management (the new server used to be a 40k tts modding server so it’s entirely new staff)

[rocky shale]

Inceptors or maybe hellblasters are good plasma units

[floral herald]

They should keep that but ban anyone who posts anything in it besides recordings of motorcycles and inarticulate yelling

[hollow laurel]

I don't like plasma because it's playing with fire.

[rocky shale]

Inceptors also just have assault bolters

[thin ibex]

plasma is a lot safer than it generally seems

[hollow laurel]

Lot more expensive though. Hm.

[rocky shale]

Good shooting is generally expensive

And plasma is generally where you get high AP D2 shooting

[hollow laurel]

I mean there are Eliminators.

[rocky shale]

Those are the snipers, right?

[hollow laurel]

Yeah.

[rocky shale]

The Las fusils are kinda neat but they don't have much volume of fire

[hollow laurel]

Yeah since there's 3 of them again.

[rocky shale]

OK into like termies and light vehicles

[sour sequoia]

Space marines aren’t gonna have volume of fire outside of big all bolters intercessor/heavy intercessors

[rocky shale]

Good support unit

[hollow laurel]

Well, against heavy vehicles, I have the Repulsor Executioner.

[sour sequoia]

You have Oath of Moment to go lol lmao I always hit

[rocky shale]

That is true lol

[hollow laurel]

Like, this is for heavier flankers.

[rocky shale]

By volume of fire I mean like more than 3 shots

[pale narwhal]

Go-to antitank for codex marines is generally gladiator lancers, vindicators, and eradicators

Repex can work but it’s not as points-efficient- it’s pulling double duty as a transport with a bunch of anti infantry guns as well

[rocky shale]

Eradicators my beloved

[pale narwhal]

Oh and ballistus dreads

[thin ibex]

i think the repex is actually pretty high tier these days

for dedicated AT

but i lke the lancer better

vindicators are great but also often get shot to bits easily

eradicators hit the hardest and can do infantry shenanigans through ruin walls

[hollow laurel]

Yeah, I'm also using it as a transport for the flame guys.

The idea being it saunters up to the midpoint and drops 7 angry flame men.

[sour sequoia]

I will say RepEx pulls double duty very well

It is one of the only things that saves you into heavy model count skews, one of the only models I’m afraid of in GSC

[thin ibex]

a common casual stomper list brings multiple repexes

cause they're effective against everything

[rocky shale]

7?

Aren't they squads of 5/10

[thin ibex]

you can go less than 10, you just pay for 10

iirc

[hollow laurel]

It can only fit 7 Gravis troopers.

[rocky shale]

Infernus marines aren't gravis

[hollow laurel]

Sorry, 7 in general.

[rocky shale]

Ohh

That's for like a squad of 5 with leaders

[hollow laurel]

Standard Repulsor is 14 standard.

[rocky shale]

I mean you can pay for 10 and get 7 but it's a bit of a waste

[thin ibex]

i remember a repulsor executioners really pooped on my nightlords theme list

cause it sniped out my vindicator early

and i had no other reliable At against such a big boi

[hollow laurel]

I mean there is the option of 6 Bladeguard Vets.

[sour sequoia]

Bladeguard solid! Always tougher than they look, good for taking a hill

[thin ibex]

bladeguard are definitely like a poster child for excelent elite infantry

[hollow laurel]

Hm. So, two Reiver squads, a Bladeguard squad with Ancient, RepEx.. 240pt left.

I mean, there is the option of a pair of Devastators.

[thin ibex]

devstator squads?

[hollow laurel]

Yeah.

[thin ibex]

hmmm

what kit would you bring em with?

[hollow laurel]

Missiles or lascannons probably.

Either them or Inceptors.

But then it's 3 on a flank vs 5 on a flank.

And 4 missile launchers is going to hurt.

[rocky shale]

Devastators are the old marine ones right?

[hollow laurel]

Maybe? But also, I see you Infernus Squad.

Infernus don't cover Reiver's weaknesses though.

[rocky shale]

Ah yeah devastators are the older ones, desolators are the primaris ones

[hollow laurel]

And Eradicators you gotta get all up in their face.

[rocky shale]

Reivers are like mostly objective doers or for contesting side objectives

[hollow laurel]

I want Reivers to like, cover the sides of the boards?

[rocky shale]

Space marines in general aren't much of a "shoot from long distance" faction overall

Outside of some snipers and tanks

[hollow laurel]

I suppose the question is, what is gonna be stuff that Reivers can't deal with in melee?

[rocky shale]

Anything T5 and up pretty much

So terminators+

[hollow laurel]

So what kills Termies good?

[rocky shale]

Big guns

[hollow laurel]

No because those kill tanks.

[rocky shale]

D3 weapons

Termies are Lil baby tanks

T5 2+/4++ 3W

[hollow laurel]

I mean. Will Las Fusils deal with Termies?

Or should I just bring Meltas?

[rocky shale]

Power swords are decent, the Las fusils or bolt snipers are decent too

Into a terminator ideally you want to put them on thier invuln (so at least AP2) and wounding on at least 4s, so S5

As far as damage the ideal is like D3 so each shot can kill.

[hollow laurel]

Bolt Snipers are ideal then.

[rocky shale]

D6s are risky since 1/3 shots doesn't actually kill a terminator if you roll 1/2

[hollow laurel]

BS3+, S5, AP-2, D3.

[sour sequoia]

Usually Plasmas are your standard termiekiller profile

[rocky shale]

Plasmas or big D3 guns yeah

[hollow laurel]

Plasma means playing with overcharge, because like, the non-OC profile basically doesn't exist.

[thin ibex]

Volume fire can also do it

[rocky shale]

Volume AP2 D1 is m great too

Hence power swords

[hollow laurel]

But like, this is gonna dome Termies, right?

Josie | System at 63 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) BS3+, S5, AP-2, D3.

[smoky urchin]

,0 Note, that's flat D3, not Dd3.

[rocky shale]

It's a good profile into them

You're not gonna shred a squad of termies with just 3 of course

[hollow laurel]

At this point I'm thinking of dropping the Reivers entirely but I want Phobos flanks.

[rocky shale]

3 shots, 2 hit, 1 wounds, 4++ invuln means it kills half a terminator on average

[hollow laurel]

Also wait, what're Incursors good for?

[rocky shale]

They give a neat buff

And have a mine

[hollow laurel]

Are they good melee fellas?

[rocky shale]

Not great

Good at killing chaff for sure

[hollow laurel]

And Reivers aren't either, are they?

[floral herald]

Incursors are scouts which is important

And they can buff friendly unit shooting

Fundamentally they’re kinda bubblewrap deep strike denial

[hollow laurel]

Reivers are also 6" scout.

[rocky shale]

Reivers basically just have chainswords with precision. I cursors have chainswords with - 1A and sustained hits 1

Both are similar roles as scouting utility pieces

You don't bring them because they're super killy

[hollow laurel]

But basically, the gameplan is meant to be Phobos on the side with melee supported by ranged, then the RepEx rolls down the centre with the Bladeguards to put on the centre.

[rocky shale]

Phobos units are pretty much all fast scouting/deep strike utility pieces

Eliminators are basically the biggest phobos guns and reivers with reivers lieutenant are probably as killy as they get in melee

[thin ibex]

reivers are cool, imo, and do have a nice utility of potentialyl forcing battleshock despite not being half hp; but are often less utility than scouts

but as space marine bodies with decent melee, they're never BAD

[hollow laurel]

I see why past me used Incursors on the flanks rather the Reivers: It was a 9e list originally and Incursors are Troops there, Reivers are not.

[thin ibex]

incursors hve a nice utility to an army iirc

as they have a mark target mechanic right?

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[hollow laurel]

They do, but it looks like I want Reivers for this because of the Terror Troops ability.

[thin ibex]

I wonder if reivers would be good for SW saga of the hunt

To shut out any attempts to interrupt in the fight phase

[hollow laurel]

I missed the obvious fire support option: The Invictor.

[thin ibex]

its a devisive one, but i like it

and it has a decent number of guns

i have a theory, instead of getting a 3rd loyalist primarch, we're gonna get guilliman again

guilliman 2

together they'll be the guillimen

[upper canopy]

"We cloned a Loyalist Fulgrim but only managed to save his brain, thankfully Cawl had a spare Gullieman clone"

[jaunty dawn]

New faction the adeptus gullimania. Its the new level of space marines after custodes and every model is gulliman in a different outfit

[tepid stratus]

I still believe clonegrim wielding a repaired sunblade as "primarch" of the iron hands would be the hypest shit

The clone with a true soul wielding the sword made by his betrayed brother to kill the daemon inside himself is peak and GW would never do it

[thin ibex]

would be poetic if Clonegrim showed up wielding the weapon Ferrus Manus made for Fulgrim

[tepid stratus]

Trazyn has a second opportunity to be the funniest dude ever and hand clonegrim to the imperium

But GW are cowards

[upper canopy]

I'm just like

no more please

[upper bluff]

You don't want more 40k primarchs?

[upper canopy]

non

[upper bluff]

Honestly I'm a fan of it since we already have people like Saint Celestia and the Silent King running around

Let space marines have their own Uber important characters

[upper canopy]

They already did

[upper bluff]

(even if that's supposed to be chapter masters)

[main pagoda]

I think the thing is that the primarchs kinda started that trend

[tepid stratus]

Yeah the cork was kinda popped by letting any faction have their mythological figures exist in game

[floral herald]

I think Snakegrim has that

[upper canopy]

Now they just have their own uber special super importante no one is legally allowed to be as cool as them Characters

[upper bluff]

Yeah I suppose that's a good point

[upper canopy]

and it's shit

Entire setting boiled down to 18 man babies

Again

[upper bluff]

I don't think they'll ever get the genie back into the bottle now though

[main pagoda]

Im in two minds one says cool models are cool models but it has kinda scraped the balance in terms of lore

[upper bluff]

So I say just embrace it

[floral herald]

Just start killing them

[upper bluff]

Lmao kill Guilliman for the second time lol

[tepid stratus]

God please let xenos be relevant again by killing a primarch

[floral herald]

Do it again Mr. The Despoiler

[floral herald]

That’s ok too

[upper canopy]

They already killed the High Ethereal

so people can't say "they'd never kill a faction leader"

[upper bluff]

Now that would honestly be a hype 11th edition start. Start the trailer with Jaghatai and then reveal it's his corpse as a trophy on a Drukharii ship

[rocky shale]

Killing all the primarchs after bringing them back would be hilarious

[upper bluff]

Drop another rock on The Lion

[rocky shale]

Please Mr gw one ounce of ynnari lore

[tepid stratus]

Imagine the uproar if the tau kill Dorn

[rocky shale]

You let yvraine un-dust a rubric marine then dropped that plot entirely

[tepid stratus]

Or the Tau getting a win in general

[floral herald]

Believing Dorn is alive in M42

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/gadzaboke.bsky.social/post/3lyvmiq7q522s

Gadsaboke (@gadzaboke.bsky.social)

I can be trusted with computers.

Bluesky · Sep 15, 2025, 8:11 PM

[floral herald]

I’d call it ultra cope but this is imperial fists grade

[tepid stratus]

No primarch is safe from the shareholders

[upper bluff]

I think Ynnari died with the Harlequin Codex honestly

It kinda had the aura of a way to unite 3 separate armies and now it's only 2

[vital barn]

it is fun to shoot primarchs to death with chumps on the tabletop, but sadly it usually results in "and then the Large Adult Son was dragged off the field so they could duct tape him back together" rather than "boomheadshot"

daemon primarchs especially, since they quite literally have a "that death didn't count" effect

[thin ibex]

for the fourth primarch loyalist, will be... Guilliman again!

[rocky shale]

Me writing my crusade battle reports like "and then my knight rampager literally ate Dante but he tasted bad so I guess he spit him back out and he crawled away oops"

[thin ibex]

i think they had a hard time giving the ynarri a clear identity on the table; they kind of ended up just being mostly just "melee aeldari soup'

instead of being their own thing as an independent army

They only have like 3 unique units

[rocky shale]

That are all epic heroes

[tepid stratus]

They needed unique ynnari cultists as a battleline

[rocky shale]

Currently the identity is just Aeldari detachment that cares about stuff dying and also gets some boats and incubi/kabs

[vital barn]

they were also ungodly busted, which didn't help their first impressions, and then got two or three books where they fucked around and did nothing in particular

kind of a false start for all concerned, at the very least you need one of good lore, good models or good gameplay

[thin ibex]

i think for them to be more than just a soup detachment they'd need some of their own units

also in current lore is Biel Tan destoyed?

[rocky shale]

I don't think so?

[vital barn]

it got very fucked up by various demons and now it's being followed around by swarms of ships with its remaining population in them while they try to fix it, apparently

[floral herald]

It’s just like cracked or something

[vital barn]

so still going but looking vaguely Iyanden-shaped

[rocky shale]

Something something free my girl Isha

[upper canopy]

Biel Tan is destroyed yeah

[vital barn]

they blew up Cadia so they had to deal equal damage to some other guys, presumably

although at this point I think Iyanden has been invaded-and-nearly-finished-off about five times

[upper canopy]

Yvraine did it

Ftr

[vital barn]

I'm pretty sure I remember demons being involved

along with the big craftworld kersplode ritual

[upper canopy]

They were

But the explosion was Yvraine sacrificing the infinity circuit to bring about Ynneas

[rocky shale]

Can't forgive the deathwatch for fucking up one of the rituals smh

Let Aeldari have fun

[thin ibex]

even ynarri list building doesn't feel super interesting, and ultimately i think its a product of them not really having their own identity mechanically

nor having their own units

I think they're super cool/interesting narratively

[untold swallow]

My White Scars fan partner might actually quit the hobby if that went down lmao

She fucking hates Gorillaman and the Blueberries

[hazy bough]

But they’re such a good band! /j

[untold swallow]

lol

Twas the intent

Also I have a question

Well more a problem Im working through

Im trying to rationalize my homebrew chapters combat doctrine in the face of where they most often find themselves

Cuz they mostly patrol pilgrimage lanes near shrine worlds, and thus often face combat in space

I also have it where they enjoy flamers and melta and use them quite a lot

I don't think flamers work in space lmao

So I feel like I've painted myself into quite a corner here

[main pagoda]

boarding actions still use flamers

[spice flicker]

If I wanted to take a stormsurge or two in a 2000 points list, which primary gun should I use? Pulse blast or pulse driver cannon?

[pastel rampart]

Yeah if they do boarding actions (which I mean, of course) then flamers are a given. Makes perfect sense there, same with shotguns if you use scouts.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1417292298315894915/IMG_6161.png?ex=68c9f3cf&is=68c8a24f&hm=63eb0c8a4f60d64d4b82210cffeb6db7166f0d93380fd9cae2bf619db2989c77&

[thin ibex]

Opinion wise, id say the blast cannon

Both are fine

[spice flicker]

Yeah both seem nice and couldn't decide which to go with

[untold swallow]

How well known a fact is it that Guilliman and the Ynnari are cooperating?

Cuz if it is a known fact I have a reason my homebrew chapter didn't participate in Indomitus

[upper bluff]

I think promethium still burns in space and if it doesn't you can say your chapter has special access to those beautiful incedium flamers the Admech has. Phosphor rounds DO burn in space

[untold swallow]

"He's cooperating with the people who're raiding the pilgrimage lanes we patrol what the fuck"

[untold swallow]

I actually fully dislike scouts so they do not lol

I am of the opinion with space marines that like

I came here to play the power armored space knights with tanks, rocket guns, and psychic powers

[floral herald]

There’s a farseer as liaison on his flagship

But also it’s the imperium nobody knows shit

[upper bluff]

Also the Poor Hammer guys opened me up to Eldrad X Guilliman

[untold swallow]

Damn no easy funny pretext for my homebrew not to participate in Indomitus

[upper bluff]

I mean just because most don't know about Guilliman's little yvraine treaty doesn't mean your chapter can't

Nothing is more space marine than knowing something important and not telling others

[past sphinx]

wrong turn at the shadow dimmed planet albu'quer'que

[untold swallow]

I actually found one

"No, fuck you we are not letting a chain of Shrine Worlds a sector and a half long fall to the fucking knife-ears, are you high?"

"You're literally not our dad."

[pastel rampart]

Guilliman: "...why does your ship have the words 'he-man elf-hater club' along the side?"
Chapter Master: "Oh, y'know. Reasons."

[untold swallow]

"Burn the alien and the heretic."

[gray basalt]

Hell yeah, Marines Malevolent think exactly that way

[past sphinx]

you may not like it but this is what peak marine performance looks like

one of the most annoying schemes to paint

and symbols to free hand

looks pretty sick tho

[untold swallow]

My chapter explicitly protects civvies tho

[runic swallow]

I still love the whole Perturabo “Hey, shoot that guy”

[brittle salmon]

Marines Malevolent are bums

Take this L

[valid brook]

Absolutely love the MMs for their shameless return to the RT vibe of “jackbooted asshole thugs who hate you”

[upper bluff]

Nothing's funnier than Indiana Jonesing a dude

[runic swallow]

More thinking Fury, but that too

[upper bluff]

"I FIFTH CAPTAIN OF THE ULTRA MARINES CHALLENGE YOU T-"

https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-shoot-harrison-ford-nope-gif-11523430

[vital barn]

The Mechanicum Myrmidons have exactly that, it explicitly happens before anyone gets to swing

you declare a challenge against a Space Wolf Varagyr or something, his entire squad starts composing a worthy stanza for the saga and then you just shoot him in the chest with paired plasma light machine guns and walk away

You can make seriously choppy magi too but they're rather hindered by a bad case of no assault transport

[brittle salmon]

Only making disordered charges isn't a massive deal unless you've got an army rule that procs on charge, at least

In which case you want many assault ramps

[charred bridge]

I am a fan of Jaghatai Khan for this, mount guns to bikes, come in shooting, drive by and kiting them.

[brittle salmon]

Night Lords in particular don't even need em to cash in their WS bonus

[charred bridge]

Khan uses space marines like an elite strike team and tries hard to prevent white scars casualties which is very sensible.

I don't have hope he'd come back anytime soon

[vital barn]

Myrmidons don't really care about disordered charging for actual melee attacks, but they do loathe anything that hinders their Volleying

you can still pop cybertheurgy on a disordered charge, which is neat, so I think Scyllax would be the way to go if the Macrocarid wasn't bricked by its stupid keyword lock, since they'll still blend marines without their fourth attack on the charge

[tall depot]

how do chaos warriors still look so good with such a basic design?

[vital barn]

(or if I had bought a Triaros instead of a Macrocarid a couple of years ago)

[untold swallow]

Trying to figure out what else I can have my chapter focus on since they're mostly gonna be engaging in space combat

or not mostly but

a notable portion of engagement is in space

They've got the melta, flamer, and power weapon boarding actions down

They probably like thunderhawks

Maybe they notably utilize comparatively few gravis and terminator squads and even dreadnoughts

[vital barn]

30k had fun Breacher and Destroyer squads for this

[untold swallow]

lol

[vital barn]

Sword (or axe, or lascutter, or meltabomb) and board for breachers

[untold swallow]

They're probably piss-poor at longer ranged and land-vehicle warfare

[vital barn]

Not sure 40k marines have any big units of shield lads aside from maybe THSS termies

if those still live

but they're fun

[untold swallow]

Which given they're fighting ynnari mostly is going to suck balls outside of boarding actions

[vital barn]

Look at these glorious bastards

Bit grey but I like their bolter rests

Lots of termies, I'd presume?

[past sphinx]

i will put it with the others

we can build forts out of them now

[untold swallow]

I actually assumed rather few lol

since you know

boarding

cramped hallways

[vital barn]

Heavy flamers in melee terminator squads is classic spaceship boarding activities

[untold swallow]

Tho I suppose this whole fucking franchise started with Space Hulk

[vital barn]

Space Hulk is all terminators for a reason

[past sphinx]

the breacher fights the enemy, the termintor kills the enemy

[vital barn]

Termies and Breachers is like the boarding go-team in most books, yeah

[past sphinx]

ship walls are more of a suggestion to the chainfist

[vital barn]

Sometimes some destroyers with rad missiles and phosphex for when you want to make everyone inside a room really sad

[untold swallow]

I do imagine the chapter fields very few if any dreads tho

[west zealot]

Given the vibes 40k runs with, I'm surprised we don't see more shields

[vital barn]

Me too, but they only really show up in Heresy, where there's a lot of unique breacher units and a special reaction to form shieldwalls

Imperial Fists, Ultras, Iron Hands and Sons of Horus are all over them

[west zealot]

Give me imperial knights with Knight sized shields and swords, and let the cries of too anime ring out from the fan base

Hell, hear me out here: Chainshields.

[untold swallow]

Me when the tau are called the anime faction but none of their mechs even have beam swords

[vital barn]

We do have shield knight

[west zealot]

If you're not ripping off Star wars ripping off the hidden fortress, are you even mecha?

[vital barn]

which I think is literally the only spear and shield unit outside of maybe the 30k Emperors's Children and manually selecting power spears for breachers

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-the-dark-ages-shield-buzzsaw-saw-gif-9442590416015906813

[floral herald]

All the cool shield guys live in kill team

[west zealot]

(shields are already a weapon irl - sword and board is dual weilding, it would entirely be in keeping with 40k too strap a chainblade to the edge)

[untold swallow]

I have an idea for a completely different homebrew chapter

[untold swallow]

that isn't a white scars successor, but is inspired by samurai and how they historically fought

So fights exactly like the Scars

and I just

am cringing

at the implications

[vital barn]

Perturabo's robots used to have a shield bash but I think now they just have the generic rule for shields and EW(1)

Oh yeah I really like the voidsmen

[west zealot]

Oh, I like the shotgun inquisition agent?

Or maybe he's some other faction

[vital barn]

Kill Team is carrying in terms of squads that actually feel like squads that were intended to do a job as part of an army

[floral herald]

I super dig the Navis Breachers

I'm also glad they're finally actually kind of good

[west zealot]

To maximize the cringe, they must have space marine sized bows that fire bolter shells

[untold swallow]

Do I make my chapter master a librarian to indulge...

[west zealot]

(samurai were mainly archers first and foremost)

[untold swallow]

nah fuck you we historically accurate in this bitch and they love bolters

(this is a joke)

[vital barn]

I admit part of my grudge against the 40k marine list at the moment is that it feels really hard to look at a marine army and go "ah yes this is a military unit" as opposed to "this is a random collection of dudes" just on vibes

[untold swallow]

In all seriousness though they probably do do giant bow kyudo as a sport and cultural thing form their homeworld

but no they

They really like guns

[floral herald]

The Space Marine range is a mess right now

[past sphinx]

10th as a whole has lists that do not look or play like armies

as like the majority

[floral herald]

I don't like the firstborn/primaris split and all the bizarre restrictions on transports and such

[west zealot]

It's one of those do you execuse it on vibes and imperium is incompetent, or try and make it make sense.
Dunno what the good answer is

[floral herald]

I don't really like the monoweapon squads even if the lore justification is pretty good

[vital barn]

7th formations were a mess but at least a demi- company did in fact look like about half a company

[rocky shale]

There's a lore justification?

[untold swallow]

muh codex

[rocky shale]

Is it that guiliman hung out with eldrad too much and stole the eldar's gimmick?

[vital barn]

I choose c) the devs didn't bother thinking about aesthetic consistency for longer than four seconds

[floral herald]

Yeah, the original primaris are basically well made Inductii (IE barely trained sim-soldiers) so they were organized into tactically inflexible monotask squads and they're a callback to pre-codex legion organization with special weapon squads of monoweapons (since they were commissioned before the Codex was done)

[vital barn]

because old Marines had good army men vibes, as did old Skitarii

[past sphinx]

Havocs are just a better deal that the marine options

granted i cant make 4 of the same gun

but its just one datasheet atleast

[rocky shale]

I see

Yeah makes sense

[vital barn]

all the 30k armies still do except sometimes Mechanicum, and Mech is still more cohesive than a random marine list from 9th onward

[floral herald]

It's good lore justification! I just don't love it

[vital barn]

despite explicitly being half a dozen wierdos and their retinues

[floral herald]

I do think that tactical squads should probably have more than 1 special and 1 heavy weapon in em

But at least they're like

A squad

You can see the tactical unit's shape

[rocky shale]

Yeah it feels wrong for a faction with "these guys are like generally good at whatever" identity

[vital barn]

Combat Squadding was a good rule

[rocky shale]

The solution is to play deathwatch

[vital barn]

5 guys with the flamer get out and take the objective, 5 guys with the lascannon stay in the rhino and overwatch

[rocky shale]

On one hand I do enjoy the gameplay streamlining of less complex squads because rolling 10 different profiles per squad is ass

[vital barn]

Legion formations are still less monotask than these guys, actually

[rocky shale]

On the other hand it does feel like factions like space marines need some variety

[past sphinx]

best i can do is 15 more infernus marines

[floral herald]

Yeah, and broadly since slot efficiency is basically dead in 10e listbuilding you want single or few-task squads anyway

[vital barn]

Legion vets are mixed squads, and special/heavy weapons can be even if they usually aren't beyond having one spotter with the auspex and vox

[floral herald]

A lot of them are, but you can take like sergeant+19 fellas with melta guns afaik

As far as I know this is bad but you can

[vital barn]

Tacs are mono-bolter, anything melee or close quarters has a few power weapons, lascutters or combis mixed in

[floral herald]

I haven't looked very closely at HH since 1e and I bet they've added all kinds of weird things since then

[past sphinx]

seems they actually removed the weirder things

[vital barn]

The most monobuild it gets is tac blobs (20 dudes, banner/vox/auspex guys, everyone has bolter except sarge who can have whatever) and special weapon squads (literally just 5-10 meltas or flamers or whatever, you can mix weapons but it's not generally good tactics)

They're for drop podding behind a baneblade

Those are all basic squaddies, any veteran or elite unit is going to mix up the loadouts or at least has many options to do so

They feel a lot more like squads than 40k or even most Sigmar units, although Sigmar is better at this

[floral herald]

That's my vague understanding yeah, monotask basic troops and then the more elite stuff is more mixed and bespoke

[vital barn]

2e had gimmicks for each legion's Inductii

funnily enough the Ultras one was "you can have one special and one heavy weapon, but no Fury of the Legion"

[floral herald]

you could make a doctrine out of this

[vital barn]

They were cute I liked the prototacs

tic-tacs, as they were affectionately known

[floral herald]

ok that's great

[vital barn]

since they tended to get snapped up easily

I think that would work much better this edition with the new morale systems

one flamer, gravgun or melta has a lot more use

[brittle salmon]

Inductii rules are coming out this month, actually

So we'll get em back soon, with any luck

[vital barn]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing if they change them up

I'm also interested in the 30k Skitarii we've had previews of, because a proper line infantry unit would let you run Mech as more of a regimented force

[rocky shale]

I think 30k's really finicky customization and stuff is cool but I couldn't see myself ever actually playing the game regularly with all that extra stuff going on.

[vital barn]

currently the three mech compositions that don't get a bit weird with it in that regard are Myrmidon Cult (model count of Custodes but really shooty), Thallax/Ursarax jetpack brigade and Cybernetica, where Castellax become Big Marines in role and unit structure

[rocky shale]

Its fun from a game design perspective to hear about it tho

[vital barn]

Honestly it's really not so bad, I go way more insane trying to figure out how a 40k army works with infinity strats and detachments and army rules

[floral herald]

I like a lot about 30k but there isn't much of a scene around me (that I know of) and I think I'd get into LI instead

[rocky shale]

40k armies do only have like 6 strats that aren't shared between all armies lol

[soft willow]

LI is very fun and now is a good time to get in.

[floral herald]

Oh?

[vital barn]

If I want to know what a 30k unit does I look at their list and it says "headhunter squad, 5 combiplasma, precision 4+, Infiltrate" and I'm good

[soft willow]

The Liber Strategia makes getting the up to date unit rules easy.

[floral herald]

Oh nice

[rocky shale]

I started in 10th and I imagine 30k makes more sense of you were playing around the editions that the 30k rules are more similar to

[vital barn]

I don't need to learn the statline of eight bespoke weapons per unit

[brittle salmon]

I gotta agree with Misc, seeing how all the pieces fit together in 40k between strats and such can be nonsense

[vital barn]

It's so much clutter

Marginally better than 8th but it's still bad

[floral herald]

Yeah I've never really played it but it's basically like 5e-6e with a bunch of weird new keywords tossed in

[rocky shale]

I see

[vital barn]

Somewhat changed now, 3.0 is really its own thing

Divergent evolution from 7e

[floral herald]

I think 10e is broadly pretty easy to wrap my head around but I don't like trying to identify the integral spam-every-chance strats for each detachment

[rocky shale]

I suppose if everyone is mostly using the same imperium guns then that does simplify things

[vital barn]

I like it a lot more though, it's a lot tighter of a game

[rocky shale]

It is definitely a "have your opponents strats open on waha" sorta thing

[vital barn]

Even when the guns are odd, it's a lot faster to know what everything does because you don't need to factor in four layers of interlocking army rules, a strat and whatever else

[floral herald]

Yeah there's a lot of hidden power in modern 40k

[vital barn]

What do world eaters special units do? Well, they've got power axes, lots of attacks and they're easier to hit in melee because they're nuts, no complications

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, that's naff to me

[floral herald]

It was easier to get a sense of the power of a unit from their card in older 40k and still is in HH

[vital barn]

All of that is either on their datasheet or in the literally two paragraphs of army rule

What do world eaters do? +1A on the charge, done

[floral herald]

Whereas in 40k it's like you see something which looks mid but they're a valid target for a full rerolls strat or strat+rule so actually they're universal blenders

[rocky shale]

Interesting, I kinda assumed they had more differentiation

[vital barn]

there's more than you'd think but it's more graduated

[floral herald]

Which isn't itself that hard to make sense of but there's 25 armies and basically all of them have a combo to watch or several

[vital barn]

Raven Guard play very differently to Imperial Fists but not because of 500 strats

[rocky shale]

Again there's like 6 strats for the detachment you pick

[vital barn]

and how many detachments are there

[floral herald]

Yeah the million billion strats thing is a 9e thing much more than a 10e thing

[hollow laurel]

To my knowledge though, 30k is just Imperium and Chaos though, right?

[rocky shale]

Quite a few, but you don't have to memorize the ones for opponents you aren't playing against

[floral herald]

Yeah there's some vestigial xenos but it's not the point

[vital barn]

You can run most Xenos with Militia but it's lossy, yeah

[rocky shale]

And a lot of armies share general common themes so you go like "ah so you can make XYZ unit advance and charge or give ABC lethals"

There's some wierd shit to watch out for like cyan said

[floral herald]

There's also a lot of largely reduplicated strats across detachments

Like how basically all the power armor has AoC+5

[vital barn]

The 30k legion rule is generally a big general incentive and then each unique unit has a twist on that, but a whole legion has one or two short legion rules, one legion specific Reaction and a few bits of wargear, everything else is available on the unit cards

Having seen a few 40k lists and the discussion around them it really is night and day despite the more complex core system

[floral herald]

Or a lot of names for "can advance or fall back and shoot"

[rocky shale]

It's not perfectly streamlined but there's really not that much going on with army rule, detachment (which gives 6 strats and 4 enhancement choices (wargear) )

[vital barn]

(apart from 1ksons, 1ksons get complexity addiction as their deal)

[pale narwhal]

surely we should return to everything being keywords you look up

[rocky shale]

It gets more fucky when you get to like individual interactions and unit synergies

[pale narwhal]

like 7e

[floral herald]

That certainly could be!

There's a bunch of funky bespoke effect ones

But there's broad trends and only a surprise every so often

[vital barn]

Conveniently that's also how it works in 30k, the USR list has almost everything and then occasionally a unit has its own rule that is maybe one paragraph on the datasheet

[floral herald]

Like the weird keyword manipulation in the daemon engine detachment as an example of a weird unique one

[vital barn]

30k reactions are also almost all generic, which helps

[floral herald]

I think that's mostly the same in 40k

[vital barn]

Generally an army has one unique reaction, 3 for Solar Aux

10s has crunched it down somewhat but there's still just so much stuff everywhere and fiddly little buffs stacked on fiddly little buffs

[floral herald]

10e squished down a lot of that (there won't usually be more than 2 at a time ime) but it's also just a big ass game

[vital barn]

possibly this is Admech Player Bias but I was infinitely burned out on that by 30% of the way into 9th

[floral herald]

Admech player bias is definitely a factor in 9e their army list needed like a degree is admech army list studies to run right

[vital barn]

If I'm playing Exalted, I get a lot out of memorising an MTG deck of abilities, but in 40k it just feels like I'm working twice as hard to play a less satisfying game

[brittle salmon]

One big thing I think 3e HH has over 10e is it's tampered down very significantly on lethality via buffs

[floral herald]

100% agree

[brittle salmon]

There's no rerolls and very few +1s

[floral herald]

I don't like how much hidden buff power is in 40k

It makes it hard to evaluate a threat based on the model

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, and it devalues individual models as well

[floral herald]

And to an extent like, I'm not playing with plastic models to win with cards

[vital barn]

What +1s do exist are actually quite useless much of the time, which is funny

[past sphinx]

+2s got canned just for us to get devs on 4+

[vital barn]

IF trait or Mech guide is great, but +1 to wound on termies is mostly flavour

[floral herald]

I think it's been toned down but someone did a good analysis of like the most points efficient way to deal with a knight for CSM early in the edition

When Knights were just a terror

And it was buffed up Khorne Chosen chopping them up at the knees with power swords

[vital barn]

also I'll be honest strats and army rules over wargear is just less satisfying to me, I don't feel like my little dudes are being cool when I press six buttons on my RTS top bar and they get 300% stronger than the identical unit next to them

[floral herald]

I broadly agree but I do like how strategems move power from listbuilding into choices made during play

[vital barn]

30k reactions are a much more satisfying version of the army mana bar to me

[floral herald]

But also like, listbuilding isn't super compelling to me and I love Kill Team which features essentially 0 listbuilding (there is 1 team which uses it)

[vital barn]

They give you choices and decisions on the enemy turn but they don't hide anything in a TCG hand of cards on yours

and yeah, I really like list building

I'd be more tempted by KTs lovely models if it had any

[floral herald]

KT does have a sort of listbuilding analogue

[dense siren]

Sorry to interject but how do tactical statuses play in practice?

[floral herald]

In that a lot of teams choose their roster immediately before a game and often need to carefully adapt to their opponent

[vital barn]

yeah, but honestly I could just go play Trench Crusade

[floral herald]

But you get to do that before every game and after you know who you're up against so its different

[vital barn]

which has both that and old school crunchy list building for the mordheim enjoyers

[floral herald]

Does it have the latter?

[dense siren]

since I liked the idea when the previews were coming out but the only thing I've heard people talk about for HH3.0 was the loss of customization

[floral herald]

I found TCs listbuilding boring as hell and it kinda broke my interest haha

[vital barn]

I admittedly play the build a bear faction

[floral herald]

That probably makes a big difference yeah

The factions I was looking at were all "blow 60% or so of your points on mandatories and then buy inexpensive bulk"

[vital barn]

but it's still nice to shuffle gear between my lads and find helmets while scavenging and such

[brittle salmon]

Very impactful if you lean into them - most basic troops have a equipment that helps shrug off statuses at turn start, but snipers can kill off those units and elite units like Terminators have no option for them

so you can shut down melee Termies for a turn if you can Pin them

[vital barn]

If I have one complaint it's that too many factions in TC are balanced around maxing out their limited picks at all times

so they always have the same cast of characters

House of Wisdom does not have this problem because half my characters are grown in vats to my specifications

[floral herald]

Yeah essentially every time I see a like 0-1 option in TC I just mentally correct it to 1-1

I exaggerate a little but

[brittle salmon]

They're good to the point where powerful anti-status stuff like the Iron Warriors trait can potentially win games

[floral herald]

I do like the kill teams which do like per opponent roster building

[vital barn]

There was a really good skirmish ruleset in HH1 called Victory Is Vengeance and I keep wanting to see if I can update it

[floral herald]

Which I think is Exaction more than anyone else

[brittle salmon]

and Deathwatch now

[vital barn]

on the other topic, yeah, statuses are big

[floral herald]

I worry DW will settle into a de-facto list since some of their models just seem so critically cranked

But also more than 5 of them are cranked

[dense siren]

ooooo alright

[brittle salmon]

[dense siren]

seems neat

[vital barn]

They're big for vehicles too, since vehicles are way worse at clearing them than infantry

[floral herald]

Does HH have bail outs for tanks?

[vital barn]

tank repair crews like techmarines are now more for unjamming the turret ring or fixing tracks than just cramming in more HP

no bail, unless you're a transported unit

Tank crew are abstracted

[floral herald]

That makes sense it's really rare to have rules for that in 28mm

[vital barn]

Ordo Reductor can force a transported squad to bail, which is really fun

get out here so I can heat ray you

[dense siren]

I like that. very fluffy

[vital barn]

Knights also now care about statuses, since they only clear them 1/3 of the time and most knight armies only have one Battlesmith model at most

so it's slightly easier to actually degrade their capabilities beyond just -1A or what have you

Unsure how they play in practice, I think their melee may have been slightly overnerfed, but they have a neat chassis

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, statuses can be ruinous for unsupported vehicles - you only get one Repair Test by default at the end of the turn for each vehicle, that Test is only passed on a 6 by default, and success only removes one status

[floral herald]

What's the dice for a repair test?

d6?

[brittle salmon]

1d6

[vital barn]

Infantry clear on 2d6 roll under [relevant stat], so 5-10 with most at 7-8

[brittle salmon]

So while something like a Kratos is extremely durable with 14 all-around AV and 10 hull points, it also might just be glanced to death

[dense siren]

yeah that seems really strong

do techmarines buff repair tests?

[brittle salmon]

and by "death" I mean it sits there Pinned, Suppressed and Stunned like a big brick dipshit

[dense siren]

or w/e they're called in 30k

[floral herald]

These seem like good rules

[brittle salmon]

So Battlesmith is the principal way to remove vehicle statuses

[vital barn]

No. Battlesmith just has the techmarine test his own Int to clear his Battlesmith rating in statuses

[dense siren]

ahhhhh

[brittle salmon]

You target a vehicle within 6" during Movement phase, test the Battlesmith's intelligence, then either remove (Battlesmith rating) statuses or heal that many hull points

You very much want support crew if you're bringing big vehicles

[dense siren]

okay okay

yeah I really like that

[vital barn]

This is the gimmick of Mechanicum armour in particular, also

It doesn't have giga stats like Marine AV14 but they usually pass repair on 4+ and all Techpriests are battlesmiths, so they're hard to degrade rather than kill

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, and you'll have Tech-Priests running all over the shop

They're 30 point boys by default with a ton of customization options and they're the only thing that goes in your plentiful Troops slots

[vital barn]

A mech army is built of characters and their little retinues and platoons, so they're character heavy

and also hate snipers

need to pack the medic Magos for those

[brittle salmon]

a little rough since snipers are very good this edition for multiple reasons

seekers are priced to move

[vital barn]

Techpriests die to them easily, Magi are pretty beefy so they are usually OK barring big seeker spam or headhunter bomb, I think

Majority T5 takes the edge off seekers a bit, at least enough to prevent your warlord just getting deleted

[brittle salmon]

They can always decide to Suppress you instead

Also nasty

[vital barn]

Yeah, they have the good ammo types

I'm enjoying the novelty of Good Snipers in a GW game, at least

6e, 7e, 8e, HH1, HH2 all had no real precision fire of note

I have a few gripes with HH3, mostly in some overzealous hacking at the options lists in places and some janky corebook missions, but if they can actually produce some good mission packs and reinject the last bits of juice I think it'll be my favourite

[brittle salmon]

The next Journal Tactica is packing three missions, at least

I figure they're pretty dedicated to providing more

[vital barn]

This is definitely the best internal balance Mechanicum has ever had, I have so many dudes I want to try

If they don't do good ones I'm sure someone else will, it's one of the easier things to sub out

[brittle salmon]

Mhm

I think most of the weirdness is easy to houserule out, too

[vital barn]

Otherwise I think they might have been slightly harsh to melee as opposed to shooting, but I have no concrete proof there and shooting lethality has gone down a fair amount to compensate for Return Fire beinga bit of an issue in previous ed, so that's just one mild suspicion

Jank levels fairly minimal for a HH game at least

[floral herald]

It seems pretty solid to me, but I've only glanced at things

[brittle salmon]

I feel like the decreased melee lethality might be compensated for by how good it is with transports now, though I admit Despoilers got the short end of the stick overall

Terminator melee is still just as nasty as always, if not moreso with Volley Fire

Either way, being able to full move out of transports no matter how far they've moved by itself is incredible

[vital barn]

Oh yeah big durability and functionality buff to transports, especially since you can react move back into them

no longer a one way cruise stage

[brittle salmon]

And anything that is a one way trip (aircraft) can get you truly silly distances

I guess my one other gripe with HH 3e is the serious de-emphasizing of Deep Strike, but I'm sort of warming up to it

It could lead to serious skew lists

[rocky shale]

I will say after doing this whole crusade as Chaos Knights I'm looking forward to playing my aeldari again

I adore CK but a lot of the local players are fairly casual and don't really know how to play into them

Lotta people just going "oh I won't even roll my bolters" when one of my biggest fears is like death guard chip damage from lethals

I get the people who say that knights should just be allied into other factions and I'd agree with the stipulation that they actually got faction synergy

Allying a knight into other factions feels bland because half thier rules are like bondsman and stuff that only works in thier own army

In conclusion: give us fuedal house troops

[upper canopy]

You'd have to delete their codex or make them supplemental

[rocky shale]

In a perfect world they'd just get some feudal guard or secutarii equivalent in thier own codex

[upper canopy]

Also yeah I had a bit of a similar experience

Either i was countered and stomped or ran rampant and stomped

[rocky shale]

I've had a few close games but for the most part it's either been stomps or someone rolls up with dorns with lethals against vehicles and I'm like

Okay yeah that's a lot of lethal hits heavy bolters GG

I still love the army and dropping them down one toughness makes them a lot more fair

And competetively they're fairly balanced post nerfs just looking at win rate

Buuuuut casually they do seem to be a seal clubbing army

I would definitely not bring them to crusade with this group again purely off of how gross they can get with crusade buffs

[upper canopy]

I think it's just kinda like

They require countering to deal with and making big thematic builds can struggle against them

since Knights can't really go "thematic" the same way

[rocky shale]

Yeah the closest you can do to off-meta is like playing the detachments that ally in admech/cultists

Or playing a less optimal detachment or something

[upper canopy]

I played when they only had the one

tbf

[rocky shale]

Ahhh yeah

[upper canopy]

I did try to be thematic by like

[rocky shale]

If it was IK then yeah they just had 1 detachment and it was pretty great

[upper canopy]

allying in as much Daemons as I could

[rocky shale]

Fair fair

[upper canopy]

Since my lore was the Knight Abberant that was my Lord was a walking Warp Portal

[rocky shale]

I thought about doing the cultist one for the thematics but I didn't want to buy and paint like 60 cultists

My crusade force is a iconoclast house of hereteks and chaos-experimenters and the head of the house is both constantly hounding the hereteks to make her a more perfect steed and yelling at the other nobles in her retinue to stop getting their knights completely overtaken by daemons

The "more perfect steed" at this point having a relic that gives every Despair ability at once, making it basically a walking warp storm.

[sour sequoia]

I’m way late to this but Sisters Sacresants run around spear and shielding it up

[rocky shale]

I believe there are custodes with spear/shield too

[upper canopy]

A few yeah

Also Chapter Master of the Minotaurs

[pale narwhal]

The secutarii hoplites have shields and spears iirc

[untold swallow]

Would it be unreasonable for a Chapter noted for its allyship to the Inquisition and Deathwatch to have a Corvus Blackstar as their Chapter Master's transport?

[upper canopy]

I mean its like

Probably fine

[mental birch]

Its fineee

[gray basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/agony-gif-23084585

[gray basalt]

They are what space Marines should aspire to be 😤

[brittle salmon]

nope (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/wJLA1L)

[gray basalt]

Lamenters deserve their fates

[brittle salmon]

yeah i hate being awesome too

[gray basalt]

Nah they say they are cursed and then take super disadvantageous positions just to save a couple citizens even tho them staying alive would arguably save even more citizens in the future

Their poor choices lead to a good chunk of their bad luck

[vital barn]

I did not know those existed, they're neat

re: Custard Creams I'm used to them coming in either spear-only or sword-and-board variety, can they do spear and shield in 10e?

[desert jay]

Fusion Blades used to have a melee profile! It's gone tho

[vital barn]

do they still have the funny power fist?

[gray basalt]

30k they do idk bout 40k

[vital barn]

oh, no, I meant the Tau one

the Onager Gauntlet

[gray basalt]

Oh no

[vital barn]

30k custodes are still happily whacking stuff with their solarite fists

40k ones appear to have lost that, pokey sticks only

[past sphinx]

We still got em on the FW termies

[pale narwhal]

It’s a crusade relic and that’s it

[junior robin]

finally, the emperors Cyberpunks primaris lieutenant.

[mental birch]

admech?

hehehe

looks like techpriest screens

[floral herald]

My gut feeling was GSC initially they like weird computer guys

[junior robin]

yeah, GSC or necromunda

feels like it should be some more ceremonial things if it was admech

[vital barn]

betting necromunda

necromunda is really soaking a lot of the cool model budget up comparing most of their range to the giant pile of space marines

[thin ibex]

primaris servitors finally getting released

servitors also crossing the rubicon

[smoky urchin]

,0 You know, I love the RepEx because.. It's an actual tank.

[hollow laurel]

Yes it gets to be an IFV at the same time, but it will just.. Munch a tank!

[untold swallow]

I think I'm unironically gonna do the samurai themed chapter once this current chapter of mine is done

And make them Fist successors, to call to mind the fact that Japanese castles are very interesting siege defenses

[gray basalt]

Already a cooler idea than most of the samurai chapters Ive seen

[deft crest]

New Votann unit

[soft willow]

The insuation that Kyn would use a monitor with a cracked screen insults the ancestors. That's a grudging.

[vital barn]

The RepX annoys me in how haphazard its giant pile of stupidly named guns is, it looks like an Ork vehicle but an Ork vehicle would just get one statline called "pile o' dakka" or something and as such not be anywhere near as good

[pastel rampart]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/433105410/demonic-tanks-dark-sci-fi-and-fantasy-physical-miniatures now these are some TOP FREAK chaos vehicles

[upper bluff]

I'm not gonna say it

[untold swallow]

It has been revealed to me that a Corvus Blackstar as a gift to a Chapter for its exemplary service to the Ordo Xenos wouldn't work for various reasons and I am saddo about it

[pastel rampart]

It could also be a "gift" (aka they stole it/someone left it behind and they just grabbed it).

[untold swallow]

nah like also in terms of how they work

a corvus blackstar has basically one pilot fit for piloting it, the bond is analogous to that of a princeps and a knight

I have landed on the admitted copout of 'It's an Overlord gunship, but very heavily modified by the Deathwatch and since the Overlord has no model but is described as similar to the Corvus, I will use the Corvus as its visual.'

[dawn mesa]

Hmmm. These Drukhari leaks have me pondering a return to playing.

[deft crest]

The Kyn are resourceful and wouldn't throw away a good screen while prospecting surely

[soft willow]

A Kyn-wrought screen wouldn't have cracked in the first place.

[dawn mesa]

Its a tough codex, and there are big problems with it if we don't have some things to round out our loss of models...

But it also has some neat opportunities as well.

[sour sequoia]

Cracked and damaged screens is def a GSC tell if its not necromunda

Everything but the mechanics is busted in admech

[paper bluff]

They're making kits to make the saturnine dreadnaught even more dread knight now

[pastel rampart]

oh hello where can I find this shit

[upper bluff]

We've gone full circle on dreadknight kit bash and upgrade sprues lol

One to make it more like a dreadnought and another to make a dreadnought more like a dreadknight

[paper bluff]

Look what I found on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/listing/4370212274/mid-nights-absolute-unit-uranus-walker?ref=share_v4_lx

[untold swallow]

compares Blackstar statline to Stormraven statline

[untold swallow]

Why tf are the Blackstars the super special transports when they're 100 points cheaper, have shorter range missiles, and only have Stealth to compensate

[paper bluff]

https://www.etsy.com/shop/IkarusPatternGlobal?ref=shop_profile&listing_id=4370212274&dd_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.etsy.com%2Flisting%2F4370212274%2Fmid-nights-absolute-unit-uranus-walker%3Fref%3Dshop_home_active_1%26frs%3D1%26crt%3D1%26sts%3D1%26logging_key%3Da704b3ecf2952dad69d4175015e6156cc5176323%253A4370212274

[floral herald]

Deathwatch have an unlimited inquisition budget so the procurement is full of space pork

[pastel rampart]

I was hoping for an STL, honestly.

[untold swallow]

Okay so

I can include a Corvus Blackstar through having allied units

In this chapter's list

But I don't think I can have my warlord, the Chapter Master, embark on it lmao

[rocky shale]

Welcome to agents lmao

[sour sequoia]

Yeah, allying has been significantly reduced in power

Because otherwise you run into Extreme Bullshit

Like AP5 kasrkin

[untold swallow]

I could make it so my chapter master isn't my warlord

for some reason

[vital barn]

40k editions, if reasonably well-coordinated, oscillate between permissive allies and relatively few broad buff abilities and restrictive allies with lots of buffs, which right now are 30k and 10e respectively

8th tried to have its cake and eat it there and it did not work

[rocky shale]

I'm pretty sure only dwkt and watch masters can embark on it

[untold swallow]

I'm just gonna have a fucking stormraven and use the blackstar as the model

XD

[floral herald]

Man the hardest part of working on the deathwatch kill team is deciding which shoulder pads to put on each fella

[vital barn]

no chance of the much prettier Storm Eagle?

I assume that too has not survived

nope, legends

[untold swallow]

I don't

yeah lol

[vital barn]

no fun allowed

look at this thing, look at its magnificent boxiness, you can actually fit a reasonable number of marines in it

a great overmatch for the stubby little Stormraven

(downside is that the kit is apparently a bitch to build because it's a resin body with a Stormraven kit integrated into it)

[thin ibex]

im surprised we still havent gotten art or a model for the overlord

[vital barn]

I'm surprised the Stormraven still looks like it does

it was vaguely plausible if a bit Looney Tunes back when Marines and Dreadnoguhts were much smaller but now it just looks ridiculous

[vital barn]

adorable

[pastel rampart]

Tiny leetle ship

[vital barn]

the description of the Overlord is basically "Imperial Manta" and I would like to ally one in, admittedly

[floral herald]

I think the Stormraven is saved by often being seen near the much sillier Stormtalon go-kart

[vital barn]

but I'm fairly sure mechanicum can't do that

you know I actually like the Stormtalon more, because it's not pretending to be a proper transport plane

it's just a Space Marine Little Bird, that's fine

it's a tiny bit dorky, granted, but it doesn't give me the "why do you exist" feeling of the Stormraven/Repulsor Executioner/literal gokart

[floral herald]

I like the Repulsor Executioner except for the bizarre number of secondary weapons on it

Pre-dread ass tank

[rare turtle]

I want to make a homebrew chapter with dark angel aestethic but blood angel lore

[vital barn]

I actually quite like the hovertank rhino

whatever it's called

Impulsor?

[thin ibex]

design wise it feels like it s built to be in the middle of the enemy

Impulsor yeha

the primaris pickup truck

[vital barn]

that has aesthetic coherence and it feels fun to drop Deathwatch squads out of one

[floral herald]

The grav-pickup kinda rules

[vital barn]

the RepEx is an abomination

it's not nice to look at, it's a pain to play with because it has fifty gun statlines to resolve for no particular benefit, it makes no sense and it has a bad case of Games Workshop Names because each of the guns has a different one

[thin ibex]

they did squish all of its minor secondaries into one stat actually

[vital barn]

oh thank fuck that was so annoying in 8th

8th admech still had to get several US college credits' worth of training in just to play my army and I was still faster than a Primaris player with three of those

[floral herald]

Yeah it just has a “pile of secondaries” weapon now

[vital barn]

one good boy point to whatever writer did that

[thin ibex]

still a lot of profiles i suppose

[vital barn]

what no that hasn't simplified it at all

that's as many as it used to have

is the defensive array just the little box launchers over the doors?

[thin ibex]

its all the stormbolters/frag launchers

[vital barn]

OK, that's barely helped, nevermind

death sentence to whoever came up with that thing reinstated

like, I love a giant doomthing firing guns in all directions, but there are good and bad ways to do it

[thin ibex]

rogal does it nice

[vital barn]

Stompa? good civilisation
Manta? likewise, it has like three different kinds of guns clearly arranged, it just has a ton of them
Stormhammer? prettiest baneblade, now with even more barrels of hell

RepEx? crowded, overwrought, incoherent, wouldn't even win an Ork talent show because it's so damned ugly

wait what happened to assault marines

[thin ibex]

?

[vital barn]

I'm skimming the 10e space marine list to see what all the new stuff does and they appear to have removed Assault Marines

[floral herald]

They’re called jump pack intercessors now

[upper canopy]

Yeah and Devastators

[thin ibex]

yeah assault intercessors with jump packs

[vital barn]

OK, primaris only, that makes more sense

I thought they'd just gone "fuck you, take Gravis"

[thin ibex]

nah

[vital barn]

Tacs, Devs, Termies and Scouts are still clinging on grimly to the ledge, I see

[floral herald]

Scouts and termies are primaris agnostic and sticking around

[thin ibex]

it is kinda fun to run like heavy rocket pack marines with suppressors, assault intercessors, and inceptors

[floral herald]

I kinda think tactical marines are gonna get replaced by some kind of mixed weapon primaris guys

[thin ibex]

Tacticals dont really get taken these days yeah

[vital barn]

my main issue is that I think all of those look godawful

[floral herald]

Devs are like 3 kinds of primaris now but still get used for lascannons and grav

[thin ibex]

the assault intercessors dont look all that different from regular assault marines?

[vital barn]

oh those guys look fine as Primaris go

the rest not so much

[thin ibex]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vital barn]

I am glad the Gladiator exists so that the pickup truck can have a tank behind it that looks less MS Paint

[upper canopy]

I still don't like the Primaris Face Mask

[vital barn]

the Gladiator is reasonably nice

[thin ibex]

i quite like the gladiator

only thing i wish is that one variant had a cool cannon

i was a fan of hte predator autocannon

[vital barn]

Horus Heresy predators have a lot of fun turrets, I am a fan of conversion beamer predator

but yeah, there's been a dearth of "just a big tank gun" outside the Kratos and the new Fellblade

[thin ibex]

also whats the lore on a primaris las talon, is it a shorter ranged lascannon? Or is it a weapon of a different nature?

[vital barn]

oh that was on the Stormhawk all the way back in early 7e, it's a rapid-fire, low-range lascannon

odd thing to put on a tank, because it was trying to evoke the high-ROF autocannons that modern fighters use

but it's just a variant lascannon, yeah

is there a reason that the melta devastator primaris run around with two slightly different kinds of meltagun?

twp of them have Cawl meltas and one of them has an old-school multimelta

I guess he was left out of the new gear club

ah, they got rid of Hellblasters having three different kinds of plasma gun to choose between

that was a little odd

[desert jay]

One day there'll be a lascannon primaris guy... one day

[vital barn]

hey, I was pleasantly surprised that at least one Primaris guy is just holding a normal multimelta like a proper devastator

maybe primaris lascannon guy will actually have a lascannon

[untold swallow]

So, funnily enough

Devastators aren't Legends yet

at least not according to the listbuilder I'm using

Oh that's been covered

[deft crest]

blank

[untold swallow]

I added a blob of 10 with multi-meltas and boltguns for one of my librarians to lead

[rocky shale]

Eradicators are the primaris with multimelta

[desert jay]

WRT DW kill team shoulder pads, draw lots and roll with it

[floral herald]

There’s SO MANY

It’s cool

[thin ibex]

i forget, in the dw, the left arm is the deathwatch silver and inquisitorial i and stuff

and the right arm is chapter symbol?

[floral herald]

I was thinking of including a blackshield

Not sure which specialist though

[desert jay]

You even think how blackshields and whiteshields have absolutely nothing to do with each other?

[deft crest]

I wish they gave us 3 gravis arm plates instead of just 2

because my breacher is missing a inquisitor pauldron

and i REALLY don't wanna buy a stl just for 1

[untold swallow]

yes but they are gravis, and as such my librarian cannot lead them XD

[rocky shale]

Gravis librarian

Or wait is that not a thing

[untold swallow]

Nope! XD

[rocky shale]

Oh wack

Every other armor type

[untold swallow]

I wish, so badly

That Gravis librarians existed

[thin ibex]

we have no gravis librarian in game, nor do we have gravis chaplains

no phobos chaplain either, but that kind of makes sense

no jump pack librarian currently

and no biker captain or librarian iirc

[upper canopy]

Didnt gravid librarian come out with the tyranid edition

[rocky shale]

I think that might be a terminator armor?

[upper bluff]

Yeah that was terminator

looks awesome too

honestly im kinda worried that we will never get more gravis

[charred bridge]

Inb4 GW announces 20 lost Primaris Primarchs.

It would be funny if they announced primaris thunder warriors for April fools

[thin ibex]

i want the missile guys to be useable

i like em

even though apparently they broke hte game

200 points is just too much

[thin ibex]

The only thing that upsets me

Is that

They aren't two mode guns

You gotta choose one or the other

[mild glen]

Game was agonizingly close there for a minute.

[sour sequoia]

Storm Hostile on that exact timing for supply drop going first is awful 🤢

I had a very different supply drop go first last night

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1LCH-8X1L0

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/hRsp5QT2ue

I just learned about this 40k comic and it seems wild

[upper canopy]

Its not a comic

Its a kids novel series

[upper bluff]

Read by David Tennant apparently

I'm assuming that's like the audiobook that might exist for it

[upper canopy]

Probably

I also think its

Bad

[upper bluff]

Or maybe he just read it for fun

[upper canopy]

Like if its for kids it sucks and is bad

[upper bluff]

The book or David Tennant reading

[upper canopy]

The book

It makes the Tau uncharacteristically greedy and evil to justify the lesson that Racism Is Good Actually

[upper bluff]

Ah yeah that doesn't seem the best

Really shows the problems with adapting 40k into books for 10 year olds

[charred bridge]

Im reading a synopsis

The mechanicus girl's family was found to be related to hereteks and all turned into servitors but her

MC their her mom mindshackled scarab's

They found a device that could reverse biotransference via body swap and an inquisitor wanted to use it to rid himself of his nurgle plagued body with a healthier street urchin's kid

[sour sequoia]

This is kind of hilarious for managing to be in-universe propaganda

[charred bridge]

Imagine if it was an Necrons like intercepted this not knowing its proppaganda.
"Call the silent king we found a way to reverse biotransference. We just need to make a stop at the webway and pick up some eldar before finding this device"

[upper canopy]

Isnt that the fucking

Proteus Protocol

[charred bridge]

I guess a body swap wouldnt get you a soul back though

[upper canopy]

Eh

[pale narwhal]

I’ve been loving trent’s daily vlogs

Gonna miss them when they’re gone

[mild glen]

I almost scored it. Opp and I both had OC4 on the objective.

[untold swallow]

I just stumbled ass backwards into my Chapter's scouts working like Space Mormons and

I hate it but it works too well to get rid of

[desert jay]

Hey anyone who wants a steam key to Rogue Trader (the Owlcat video game), reply to this message (with ping so I don't miss it)

[snow shuttle]

The guys im working on

Very strun about

But dont mind the turtle dready

He can't get up

[charred bridge]

If someone hasnt claimed it yet I volunteer for Rogue Trader

[untold swallow]

God, Dorn goes so fucking hard

Fulgrim; No words of denial, no pleading for me to change my foolish ways and come back to you? Oh, you can tell me it's not too late. You can promise me sweet forgiveness.

Dorn; Deeds are my words.

Fulgrim; laughing Always. Mmmmm, you were never a wit. Never one for fine conversation. Are you really not going to try and convince me that I have made a mistake? Talk me back into the fold where I can make amends?

Dorn; No.

I'm just going to kill you.

[thin ibex]

Good match up

Dorn just like "You talk too much"

[vital barn]

you know, I generally prefer the blue boys in the AL/IF matchup but Dorn beats out Alphy any day

admittedly Alpha Legion are fun because they are basically a legion without a primarch

[untold swallow]

The particular voice actor who made the rendition I'm watching made Dorn a Yorkshireman as well

[vital barn]

their whole I Am Alpharius bit makes the two amigos fundamentally disposable as characters

[untold swallow]

So he sounds like fucking Robb Stark

Just the 'No'

with an almost U sound

[vital barn]

have you got to his extremely good opening speech for the Siege of Terra?

[untold swallow]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F9X79MyYwHk?feature=share

[untold swallow]

Kill. Them. All.

[vital barn]

Dorn is great

[untold swallow]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cvkhMGtCALQ?feature=share

[vital barn]

not going to stop me sniping the bastard, though

Alpha Legion is the only legion where their most effective anti-Primarch tactic isn't an elite force of melee heavies probably led by their own primarch

instead of you get hold of a small platoon of elite marksmen and gun the bastard down

very satisfying

I have a tactic that can theoretically do it with one squad, but they are heavily enhanced by the Dark Mechanicum

bonus points for the special rule on their own elite terminators:

[charred bridge]

Dorn knows there's no point