Warhammer and Such

[deft crest]

I have three riptides sitting in a box. I'm so out of touch with Tau at the moment

[mental birch]

Real i've already been trying to force triptide to work

[deft crest]

I have enough of a force that I'm really tempted to ask my play group to let me switch from demons to Tau for my crusade, but I'm still not 100% married to the idea

[mental birch]

Retaliation crusade in tau is really funny do it :p

[pastel rampart]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4893151 https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/aquila-strongpoint-canon-fu11er-2 Hey, if you have access to a 3D printer...

[thin ibex]

Triptide is so back Admiral

S10 ion

No point cost increase

[mental birch]

I know rite

[hollow laurel]

Something I want to run if I ever do is like.. Triple hammerhead.

[thin ibex]

Triple railhead will put fear into the hearts of big vehicles

[mental birch]

Trip railhead

Hammer slammers

[sour sequoia]

Was triptide ever gone

The real deal is 9 broadsides is back

Tau can dogwalk knights again killing like two bigs per round and a wardog per riptide

[mental birch]

Touch and go for a good year

[mental birch]

Wardog per rippie is big

[deft crest]

And I have a storm surge model I can use

[mental birch]

Means I can reliably pop wardogs

[deft crest]

Split fire means it can use it once again

[thin ibex]

The sad part for me is I'm still gonna bring the hbc

But it's so clearly worse than the ion now

It's got very little going for it

[deft crest]

More buulleetss

[hollow laurel]

You see my idea. Good morning Knights, goodbye Knights. >:)

Admiral (she/her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) Trip railhead

[vital barn]

I do not, but when I have the fun things budget from actually being employed, I will

thank you very much

[sour sequoia]

Oh this would be a good building to shit up and cover in jungle

[pastel rampart]

Consider also making friends with someone who has one, and also look at your local library. A lot of them have 3D printers as part of a maker's lab kinda thing, which is handy when you only want one or a handful of things made and don't want a whole-ass 3D printer.

Some community colleges have them too, but access is often predicated on being...y'know, a student.

[floral herald]

Oh that sounds sick

I haven't decided how I wanna paint the stuff I got

I'm leaning towards a kind of frozen icy look

Since it's fun to paint

[mental birch]

As a silly girl i kinda want to make a river for old world

[vital barn]

right now I am a long way from any good library or college, but I am hoping to move to Cambridge soon, and the techies I know there have 3d printing kit coming out of their ears

they love those things

[charred bridge]

Question for lore knowers, do the White Scars have dreadnoughts? I feel like thatd be hell for a white scar unless it had like wheels

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/bbz5st/excerpt_malevolence_dreadnoughts_in_the_white/
There's some good stuff here

[charred bridge]

Oh that interesting and make sense I like that twist on the role of a dreadnought

[main pagoda]

they do have them but it is seen as a terrible fate

[charred bridge]

I love White Scars lore wise, but they barely are ever seen outside of HH and their paint job is like the most bland

Its just almost entirely white with a few jagged stripes

[sour sequoia]

The thing about white is its at its best especially on white scars when you add in weathering and OSL and whatnot

Honestly as heresy paintjobs go they’ve got one of the only ones that’s not absolute ass IMO

So many chapters being Monochrome Black + Trim

[upper canopy]

My only problem with white scars lore is how often The Reasonable Guys gets boring

[charred bridge]

I do love my unreasonable Necrons, especially anything involving at least 2 of the big named ones.

[charred bridge]

The gorillaman issue, he's fairly reasonable but in an empire devoid of it.

However some of my favorite characters are the most reason like Gullimom, her dialogue, interactions, and teachings to astartes and even custodes shows she's a brilliant tough woman with a good head on her shoulders.

She is probably one of the best reasonable characters and it's not boring cause she's imparting wisdom on them but not all the same way. She uses different approaches for who she's talking to and gauges them well.

[upper canopy]

I think Gullieman works because hes being driven insane by his situation

But like one of the reasons I dont actually like the Khan too much is that he just kinda has the character traits of being cool and reasonable and thats it

[charred bridge]

My thoughts are its not the reasonable thats the issue but their chances of success. Gulliman is failing at even the seemingly most basic task like asking the year lead to chronostrife. Sure Gulliman wins fights but he loses in every other way through no fault of his cause imperium wack.
Khan just wins, and if he loses its spun in some way he wins something.

[upper canopy]

I think thats an aspect that irks me definitely yeah

[charred bridge]

I think if they reframed him if he comes back itd be fine

Like he comes back to 30k and now jetbikes are rare. A lot of the equipment hes used it is basically not made and worse so you got someone whos used to winning now losing battles because he cant just give his armies everything he used to, forced to use inferior tech because his way of fighting isnt done by the Imperium anymore at all

Also him struggling with adapting to the the new(er) 40k imperium when hes stuck in 30k and so much changes. Even make it so when he wins he struggles with accepting it, hes less optimistic about the emp's vision than Gulliman and Dorn and might question if these victories are worth it, to further this awful mess of an empire for all of humanity

[past sphinx]

khan peaks out of the webway for 3 pages of a random like space sharks book, says "ah man its still fucked out here" and leaves again

thats the only thing i will accept

or like a random gaurd book

[mild glen]

Honestly, I'd also accept a one-off scene where Jagati's skin is stretched out in some Drukhari's quarters as a trophy.

I like the "age of demigods is over" feel 40k used to have

[bright dove]

Consider this counter-pitch

[sour sequoia]

Azdrubael Vect has the chance to do the funniest thing

[bright dove]

Skinless Jaghati trekking along through the webway.

[past sphinx]

but have you considered that YOUR army could really use a singular super unit to fuck up your codex forver?

[upper canopy]

real quick

https://www.tumblr.com/retroscifiart/793622615746068480/prelim-illustration-by-chris-foss-for-warhammer?source=share

Scifi Art

Prelim illustration by Chris Foss for Warhammer 40K (1997)

-# #Chris Foss #warhammer 40k

Tumblr · Sep 2, 2025, 11:58 PM

[past sphinx]

incredible

[valid brook]

hell yeah Chris Foss

Truly one of the best to ever do it

[floral herald]

Hellllllll yeah

[vital barn]

I'm still mildly surprised there's no generic "Archmagos" option

Cawl and Cawl only

[past sphinx]

that would require admech releases

[vital barn]

or just a couple of extra bitz in the Cawl kit, since a few kits can be built as a unique character or their generic equivalent

the FW Abeyant Archmagos has one head for Draykavac and one head for the generic version and that's it

(and there's a second FW archmagos kit, actually)

[past sphinx]

its one of those "just get the 30k ones" situations

[uneven ember]

see, that's a good retcon right there

[tired cairn]

Clearly they need to make dreadnought sized bikes and then they might feel better about it

[jaunty dawn]

I mean eldar have jet plane dreadnoughts

Kinda

They have pilots I guess

[charred bridge]

I thought they piloted vehicles with like dead eldar in wraithbone

Or is that just the mech ones

[jaunty dawn]

Wraith lords and guard are full dreadnought

Wraithknights have a pilot that is a twin of a dead eldar who pacific rim the knight

The titans all have a living pilot but multiple dead eldar within, and the wraithfighter is pretty much the same. They basically as machine spirit equivalent

[radiant lotus]

have you all tried OPR? What do you all like and don't like about it?

[pale narwhal]

I have signed up for a local killteam league (a member of my D&D group assures me my lack of experience is perfectly fine and has also said she'll play an intro game with me at some point)

is this wise having played zero games of killteam? perhaps not, but I'll have fun doing it and meet people and learn killteam along the way

[past sphinx]

its solid but i really think it needs a layer of fiddly

the closest i thing i can compare it to is like 3rd edition but made intentionally less interesting

not bad but like plain graham cracker

[radiant lotus]

I feel the same way, ive found most discussion of OPR to simply be anti GW and nothing about the game because its a wet nothingburger

[dense idol]

back from my first 1k match with that list

versus space wolves

vp tally came out 67-62

my opponent severely neglected their objectives whereas i severely neglected keeping my units alive, so it balanced out

saga of the hunter gives a nutty degree of 1+ to wound rolls for so little investment, it seems to me

[floral herald]

Who won?

Also congrats on the close match

[pastel rampart]

I think the bonus of OPR is that it doesn't have as much fiddly stuff as GW and that makes for quicker games. It's very smooth, but I do think it could use...I dunno, something a little extra to add depth.

Maybe a more complex objective structure.

(well, the other bonus is OPR is miniature-agnostic so I can use whatever I want and that's really nice for someone like me with waaaaaay too many models lmao)

[dense idol]

that's 67-62 to me

i'll do the same list again next week for more data

[past sphinx]

Yeah fiddley isn't the right word, Due it's very nature it lacks strong identity or even really gimmicks for armies

[dense idol]

but i think i will have to scrap the funny meme formation of the immortals + plasmancer + shroud overlord for more boringly sensible objective holders

their dreadnought missed all their attacks on round 2 and then instantly got detonated by my Anti-Centerpiece-Vehicle-Inator (3 lokhust heavy destroyers with gauss destructors)

which was pretty funny, for me, at least

[floral herald]

It do be like that sometimes

[vital barn]

everyone needs an ACVI

my Heresy mech are currently lacking one, which might be a problem

I have a lot of stuff that can kind of chunk big vehicles but nothing to drop the hammer

[pastel rampart]

There's like...a little gimmicks for armies but it's all tied to keywords. Not enough to make them play radically different from each other but there's some differences.

It needs a shake of cayenne in there, basically.

I do think it's a fine enough alternative to GW if one is sick of 40k for whatever reason but don't want to sell off your models.

[rocky shale]

It's kinda the result you expect from filing off the unique parts of every 40k faction

The necron equivalents are just "robot legions" and that's absolutely sauceless

[vital barn]

yeah, you really do need the juice

Trench Crusade has great emphasis on the juice, it's absolutely my favourite game in the kind of alt-warhammer-style space

[dense idol]

are opr's unit stat sheets all paid content?

i guess that you need to have people paying for something

[hollow laurel]

I've said it before and am saying it before, but I wish I could play 40k online with you folks.

[thin ibex]

no tts?

[pastel rampart]

No, all the units and their stats are on the army builder for free.

Advanced rules are on the paid PDFs but you can play with the free stuff no problem.

[thin ibex]

I do feel like its not the same, but battlesector almost gets the closest 40k tabletop experience

[dense idol]

where can i find the army builder?

i may be blind

[pastel rampart]

https://army-forge.onepagerules.com/armyBookSelection?gameSystem=gf

[dense idol]

i see, thank you

[pastel rampart]

https://onepagefan.wiki/index.php/Main_Page and if you need to figure out what each unit represents on the GW side, there's the wiki.

[dense idol]

i went through the link with bated breath and was so relieved to not be sent to Fandom

they have my respect for that at least

[pastel rampart]

They moved off Fandom a while back actually.

[dense idol]

i can respect the project's aims, but i do have to corroborate that it struggles to present a unique identity

which makes total sense given its origins

[rocky shale]

Wargame gurps

[dense idol]

excellent way of putting it

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R3ygZfKnTM

http://puu.sh/KALE0/b72d02fdcc.jpg

Insanely good find here.

[hollow laurel]

I do have TTS. I just.. Don't have people to play with.

Stormtalus (Relatable 2) | MSMC ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) no tts?

[sour sequoia]

Good news everybody who plays ultramarines

You can buy Marneus Calgar Again

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ujwr1rgf/marneus-calgar-and-new-ultramarines-prepare-to-defend-ultramar/

Lmfao

[floral herald]

Wahoo axes of ultramar

[rotund flax]

I’m so glad that this neglected chapter is finally getting bespoke models of their own

[dense idol]

there really must be a massive contingient of games workshop whales who will go "Oh boy! More named Ultramarine characters!" in complete sincerity

i suspect they exclusively inhabit the mole-men tunnel networks below Nottingham

[upper canopy]

Its the same ultra marine characters AGAIN

[sour sequoia]

There quite literally is, is the thing

We have a guy collecting 4 different space marine armies

Man has 18 bladeguard 4 times over

They’re unpainted

[vital barn]

These are just Suzerains but worse

slightly taller suzies with worse drip

[dense idol]

do they have family in Nottingham, by any chance

my molemen theory may hold some water

[vital barn]

I am very fond of the Suzies' silly bolter shields that have truly gigantic magazines at the cost of only being able to shoot in a direction the shield is not actually covering

peak Space Marine

[pastel rampart]

Ah yes the "bird flew directly into my mouth" helmet design is back in fashion.

[dense idol]

were these all purchased at rrp?

if so, that's well over $1000 of bladeguard

jesus mary mother of joseph

[charred bridge]

Main reason why grey knights are goated, you don't need to paint them

[hard whale]

Do we think they're taking the Magnus in Gravis armour away? It would be a shame not to be able to get the big guy in the way he's dressed in Space Marine 2

[sour sequoia]

Legendsing him would be the funniest shit

Cmon ultramarines lose even 1 model please please please

Guard, every xenos faction being net negative datasheets this edition. Join us

[vital barn]

I am still wondering what the guys who came up with Gravis Armour and the primaris jumpy guys thought they had there

[hard whale]

I really like the lighter type of gravis armour, but the Aggressors are too much like Centurions to take seriously. And the... Suppressors? are just bonkers

[vital barn]

the spec ops primaris guys look quite nice, but the normal armour just looks silly to me

[hard whale]

wow, they really named the one-man gunship Suppressors, didn't they

[vital barn]

I'm too used to the big slabs of metal of Mk3 and Cataphractii

space marines should look like they rust in salt water

for me, this is peak refrigerator man

[hard whale]

oh yeah, terminators definitely need to look like that. But making bootleg terminators by putting power armour on over your power armour, and then adding a jet pack, is the first symptom of Ork brain

[vital barn]

yeah, it gets a bit much, especially when it's done in that slightly cartoony paint style that GW liked for their primaris

I still think that Thallax are peak jump pack heavy mob

[hard whale]

oh, thallax are great

[vital barn]

they had the nickname of "jump pack ogryns" for a while, although in HH3 their statline is no longer literally a flying bullgryn with better guns

[floral herald]

I agree, aggressors look goofy because there’s only so much you can do with dual power fists and suppressors are hard to respect

But heavy intercessors and the new deathwatch heavy gunners rip

[vital barn]

heavy intercessors are trying hard not to look too much like they're plague marines playing dress-up, it's basically normal power armour with a big collar

same for the Deathwatch

I am hoping that eventually they just kind of merge everything together and there are no longer Primaris Boys with Primaris Gear as a separate wing of Space Marines, which seems to be the direction they're going in

[floral herald]

Yeah the distinction will probably fade out with the next troops wave for space marines

Since it has for terminators and scouts

And sternguard I think

[thin ibex]

Yaaaas they're back, I'm so happy

I was so sure it was a quiet removal of their whole axe shtick

[vital barn]

I'm surprised they don't have the old name of "legatine axes"

they look about the same

[grim mango]

Thanks James for giving Space marines more mini's while ripping models away from the Drukhari

[gray basalt]

Nah that wouldn't be profitable enough plus GW likes keeping their games separate

[gray basalt]

This is about the axes

[pastel rampart]

Still the best lightning claw design.

[vital barn]

as we all know it's highly important that every new unit have completely bespoke weapons made only for them, because nobody has ever picked up a generic plasma gun

[pale narwhal]

I bet the axes are gonna make some broken af combo accidentally and ultras will continue to be the top codex marines faction

[gray basalt]

Well and it lets them copyright more words

Which means more lawsuits

[charred bridge]

I just learned about The Carrier, a navy trooper so lazy he became a prince of nurgle.

[floral herald]

I think axes of ultramar is actually the old name

[charred bridge]

He just sits in the warp, waits for a ship to be lost, promise safe passage, then shows up on their ship as a regular guy and does nothing then the ship miraculously makes it to safety on time, not knowing everyone on board now carries nurgle pox.

Even before daemon prince he was infamous for being lazy and not doing anything across a whole battlefleet. Imagine being so lazy you're known by name across several ships that probably have thousands or millions of people on them.

[main pagoda]

Cato dripping swagger on the rock with macragge nerd

[vital barn]

in real life, yeah

[charred bridge]

He would be one of Nurgle's deadliest weapons if he would bothered moving to planetside but warp teleporting onto accepting ships is easier. Nurgle also is satisfied enough with him to not really bother putting in the effort to use him well

[vital barn]

the in-universe fancy axes started out as Legatine Axes in 30k, apparently from Guilliman surveying thousands of power weapons and deciding to make the Optimal Power Blade

(and then arming himself with a sword, for some reason)

[upper canopy]

Its less optimal for him cuz he has longer arms

[remote wharf]

I see, time for space marine's equal attention cake.

[pale narwhal]

I play marines and I hate this

Calgar’s model was six years old. That shit don’t need an update, all the finecast you’ve just legends’d does

They’ve probably done analysis and concluded that new ultramarines models will sell more than any xenos update they do :(

[hard whale]

optimal profit will come when the game is ultramarines vs ultramarines only. The Guiliman Heresy

[untold swallow]

Jesus the Christ

As a Dark Angels player I know I have zero room to talk shit but like

bruh

[hard whale]

Dark Angels have named every single leadership position in their chapter, but most of them are out of print. Ultramarines could field a whole army of different Calgar models

[main pagoda]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/qnxe95ul/sunday-preview-super-heavy-metal-in-the-age-of-darkness/ @vital barn dunno if you have seen this but actual combat patrols for HH

[vital barn]

I have, yeah

[untold swallow]

I just want someone other than us to get some fuckin love at this point lmao

Like please

Do something for fuckin idk

GSC

[vital barn]

someone posted the predicted price sheet, looks like 170 USD/125 GBP if they're just using the current exchange rate

which is great value for that much Mechanicum

[untold swallow]

What armies that have been in previous editions are there that just

Don't have jack or shit for 10th lol

[vital barn]

I might grab the Space Marine one and see if I can trade the Leviathan for a Land Raider Phobos, since they cost the same and that's most of the stuff I want for my 30k DG allied det

would just need some heavy weapons and Seeker boltguns

[hard whale]

most recently the Drukari lost a bunch of datasheets. There isn't enough left to field a whole Homunculus-themed army

[untold swallow]

Jesus fucking christ

[hard whale]

they were really relying on big units of Grotesques and they never made it to plastic

[sour sequoia]

Silly marines player! We are all jobbers for Timmy Blueberry

[vital barn]

I had considered starting DE but they've steadily been getting pared down

[gray basalt]

Wait what did covens lose?

[vital barn]

I really liked the Reaper and the Tantalus and both of those appear to have got it in the neck

[gray basalt]

All they had before were wracks and grotesques really

[sour sequoia]

And now Timmy Pissmarines given they dodged an entire round of nerfs after 3 months of 60%

[hard whale]

Rakarth, Beastmaster, Grotesques and Court of the Archon. They split the Scourges into two and added a Hand of the Archon unit that's different from regular Kabalites though

[gray basalt]

Yowch

[vital barn]

cannot tell if fists or custards

fists spent all of HH2.0 as one of the top two cracked legions so people are quite sick of them there too

[gray basalt]

Not my boy Urien

That hurts

I hope he is getting updated

Grotesques need to be plastic

[vital barn]

I was kind of hoping to do an army built around a couple of Tantali when I saw they weren't unusally tiny Lords of War anymore

but it seems like 40k Legends is "dead" as opposed to 30k Legacies, which is "go wild"

[hard whale]

should be a nice challenge for some sculptor to try to make an even cooler Homunculus

[gray basalt]

Urien is the guy who runs the flesh tower so should be fun

[sour sequoia]

Death Guard! Death Guard has had 3-4 detachments at 58% or higher since codex release

Multiple majors where half the top 8 is death guard mirrors, etc

They kept all their busted rules and are now merely 150-200pts under budgeted instead of 450 at custodes level statsticks in 40k lmao

[hollow laurel]

Jump pack Centurions? :O

onFyre ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) oh yeah, terminators definitely need to look like that. But making bootleg terminators by putting po…

[thin ibex]

I actually like the way aggressors look personally

[vital barn]

yeah, I suppose that follows if they're as huge as they appear to be

I find it hard to track what Big Stats are in 40k because the scale is very different to what I know/knew from 30k and 7-8e

A Custode to me is T5 W2 2+ 5++, reduce all damage taken by 1 to min 1

same as an elite Legion terminator like Deathshroud

[hard whale]

Suppressors and Inceptors. The flying bricks in a faction of flying bricks

[tranquil ivy]

so there's a new Calgar

i dunno how to feel about it

[gray basalt]

Oh that's just standard Warhammer

[hollow laurel]

I thought they were Demi-Termies?

onFyre ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) Suppressors and Inceptors. The flying bricks in a faction of flying bricks

[gray basalt]

There's been like 10(?) Calgars through all of Warhammer

Not saying it's a good thing just that it's kinda standard at this point

[main pagoda]

I do think its worth noting that these release schedules aren't mutually exclusive different teams work on different factions. they aren't releasing new UM to stick it to xenos players they are releasing new UM because they finished making them/there was a leak that kinda forced their hand

[tepid stratus]

The original metal, the resin, the first plastic, the primaris plastic, this new one and the joke mini of him painting at his desk? I think that's all of them?

[gray basalt]

In 5th Ed he had like him in 3 different armors

[tepid stratus]

Shit right forgot he had the different stat blocks for the armour types

[gray basalt]

10 was hyperbole but he has had quite a few

[pastel rampart]

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/marneus-calgar-1988.jpg

Let's not forget his original Power Toilet model.

[gray basalt]

Marneus Calgar gets them money so he will be made to live forever as long as he provides them income

[sour sequoia]

100%, but at the same time given Calgar was 6 years between a Fine Sculpt and New Sculpt, and then we aren’t getting a Nightbringer till next year still?

[thin ibex]

So the big 3 all have somewhat fresh sculpts now

Though Dante never feels as scary as the other two

[gray basalt]

Big 3?

[thin ibex]

Dante, Logan, Marneus

[gray basalt]

Dang leaving out Azzy

[tranquil ivy]

it's the fact Calgar is in terminator armor now

[tepid stratus]

Yeah I was about to say it's big 4 as mirror to the 4 chaos champions

[gray basalt]

Has been in the past to be fair

[main pagoda]

aiui the night bringer model was leaked long before it was ever meant to be annonced which fucked the release schedule for it

[pastel rampart]

Calgar had his original Power Toilet version, the '95 model, the '04 one, 2018, and this new one.

[cunning lintel]

So yall
My friend is high key getting me into AoS, and I'm having trouble picking between Slaves to Darkness and Soulblight Gravelords

[gray basalt]

I say we dump Logan and make that new WS in the big 4

[thin ibex]

I've never heard it spoken as big 4, azzy was often not really involved in managing empire as far as j know

[tepid stratus]

I play both of those so ask away

[sour sequoia]

I want ultramarines to become entirely competitively dependent on 23 year old out of print sculpts and then I will stop my industrialized salt mining lmao

[tepid stratus]

What appeals to you?

[gray basalt]

Tbf I have never heard of big anything regarding loyalists

Other than Big E of course

[cunning lintel]

I like the big armored chaos fellas from s2d, but the vampires are also really cool from SbG, (less into the skeletons and zombies)

[thin ibex]

Before Primarchs were coming back, I was regularly hearing about Marneus, Dante, and Logan as being the heroes of the Imperium, well known and popular across the whole of it

And I've always heard it as big 3, azrael didn't really come up there

[gray basalt]

Might've been a locals thing then bc I never heard that

[rocky shale]

I think sbgl do need some quantity of zombies or skeletons to function but I think you can lean into vampire decently

[tepid stratus]

Ayyy same. I play exclusively vampires in my soulblight lists. Alright I'll put it in terms of liking the big armoured stuff. Soulblight is gonna be very mobile, lifesteal sustain, and very aggressive. You'll be focused around blood knights, vamp on horse, Vordrai and throwing in askurgans or vargheists for scoring purposes. Decent casting and big charge damage is the name of the game

[gray basalt]

Especially since till Logan got a new model in later 5th Ragnar was more popular

At least at my locals

Bc he had da books

[tepid stratus]

For slaves to darkness it's a walk of meat, some expensive but dangerous blenders and the flexibility to pick buffs on the fly. You can also go hard on "your dude" doing cool shit to become a daemon prince or lean into super elite with archaon as a one man Army or Abraxia as a big time objective bully

Soulblight win by killing the enemy dead while using vargheists to score. Slaves bully primary objectives but struggle with secondaries, but hey unless you're going hard on tournaments, controlling primary is good enough to win

[gray basalt]

I'm finally trying a foray into 4th AoS with Maggotkin

[tepid stratus]

Also slaves can meme list spamming exalted heroes using one of their sun factions. It's goofy and not actually that good but a horde of leeroy Jenkins is funny and makes monster/hero heavy lists shit themselves

[tepid stratus]

Good time for it if the rumours of a range expansion are true

[gray basalt]

That's why actually

[floral herald]

Ahh ok I follow now

[tepid stratus]

If you've got any nurgle questions I'm decently versed in them as my best friend is a maggotkin main

So I play against it alot

[gray basalt]

I played them in 3rd so I have a general idea (even tho all the rules changed)

[thin ibex]

Don't think it was local, seems to be pretty common online too, including popping up on 1d6chan of all places

Don't have a specific source though

[gray basalt]

Wild

[thin ibex]

It's just been in my brain for a long ass time

[gray basalt]

Also the disrespect on Kantor is wild

[thin ibex]

Lot of other chapter masters passed over tbh, but supposedly they have the feats and reach to have earned, at that time, the titles of greatest space marine generals supposedly

Marneus being the most obvious for being the leader of the chapter that got the most intense glazing for a while

[gray basalt]

I get Dante too but Logan is wild take

But I'm hard biased against swoofs

[thin ibex]

Why's that? Sw manage their own mini empire too, and he was instrumental at Armageddon

[vital barn]

I can also see not giving it to Azrael because the DA are a bunch of real weirdos who don't work well with people, even by SM standards

[thin ibex]

Whatever the bias, Logan has a pretty set reputation in the Imperium

[gray basalt]

They aren't really space vikings and they are allowed to break rules that others are constrained by and that inherent privilege annoys me

[thin ibex]

I mean, they're not any more the short hand description than any of the other more themed chapters, it's not like the white scars are actually Space Mongols

[vital barn]

they spend most of their 30k books being incredibly stuck-up hypocrites, but they do eat a lot of shit, which is fun

AL dunk on them fairly hard

[gray basalt]

Yes and no, who ever designs WS does actually do some research on Mongolian culture

Chris Wright probably did when he wrote Scars

[thin ibex]

I guess? Its also not like Dark Angels are actually Space Knights, or Ultramarines actual Space Romans. Most of the thematic chapters/ legions are vibes based

They take thematic elements largely piecemeal

[jaunty dawn]

I imagine the two calgars co exist like they did for ages before

Like terminator and non terminator calgar

[thin ibex]

Space wolves are more movie Norse than they are real culturally norse

[jaunty dawn]

Also gravis is really good and aggressors are cool dont @ me

[gray basalt]

Sure, it'd be cooler if they were actually based on Norse culture rather than Hollywood Viking nonsense

I'd actually like them then

[thin ibex]

I suppose, but they eat up that nonsense, thunderwolf cavalry is the single most rediculous model in 40k to me

Followed by the Grey knights baby carrier

[sour sequoia]

Thunderwolves is ridiculous (good)

[floral herald]

I think the posting is kinda weird

[sour sequoia]

I think any time you can take a space marine seriously, the mission is failed

[gray basalt]

For sure, and just because I dislike them doesn't mean I dislike people who like them

[tepid stratus]

Honestly I find space Wolves visually goofy but I've got some respect for their lore

[gray basalt]

I have many friends who play wolves

[vital barn]

honestly I think the most goody (bad) model has to be the Skatros for me

just awful

the flappy helicopters are not to my taste but I can see why some people like them

[jaunty dawn]

The skatros has an awful pose

[gray basalt]

In fact I like that people play swoofs so I can murderize them

[thin ibex]

It's not even space marines, Catachan are an entire chapter of light infantry that all dress like Rambo and somehow get enough protein to be swole despite 75% of them dying before adulthood

[pastel rampart]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZEAAAOSwjzleVZuH/s-l1200.jpg

Ahem.

[main pagoda]

with SW i think its model goofyness fighting against the lore

[vital barn]

I forgot that existed

[gray basalt]

The swoofs not the players

[main pagoda]

the sled is kino tbf

[thin ibex]

We have 2 flavors of space Russians, one is tzarist and one is red army

[vital barn]

30k space wolves have a neat grey colour scheme and some fun units, but every time I consider coming up with a small force of them I remember that their lore is just the most obnoxious

[thin ibex]

Point to you, this competes for the number one spot

[vital barn]

they're not likeable and they're not charismatically unlikable, they're more stuck up than the 1kSons and that's saying something

[gray basalt]

Yep

[jaunty dawn]

I like 30k wolves because they lie and a lot of ppl have never heard of lying

[gray basalt]

WS do it cooler tho

[pastel rampart]

The ridiculousness of SW reall comes down to what era of models being released, because peak silly was the refresh during 5th ed when they went all-in on WOLF WOLF FOR THE WOLVING WOLVES naming convention.

[vital barn]

the Dark Angels take the crown for "legion given most loving fellatio by the 30k writers" but they don't act like they know they're the writers pets and I like their cool toys more

[thin ibex]

I don't thin it's in my top 3, but the repulsor executioner is up there for most rediculous to me

[jaunty dawn]

And also because it makes ppl mad for the exact same reason it made 1k sons mad in the lore and I think thats funny

Because the 1k sons are shown to have been objectively wrong abt the whole thing

[gray basalt]

Were they?

[jaunty dawn]

Like harmony between the narrative and the metanarrattivee

Yes they all fell to tzeentch

[gray basalt]

Swoofs seem pretty objectively in the wrong imo (not that Tsons are blameless

[thin ibex]

My Wolf Lord on his Thunderwolf, wielding his wolf claws, as a member of the space wolves great company, the iron wolves.

His name is Lupus Wolfheart.

He leads us wolfguard into battle

[jaunty dawn]

Because they were bad at spells and ignored everyone who was good at spells

[gray basalt]

But that's because anyone who supports the Emperor is objectively wrong

[floral herald]

I think the 5e models were pretty restrained

I can’t say the same for the names but the wolfboat was later

[jaunty dawn]

The 1k sons cant even do hating the emperor right

[thin ibex]

Wasn't wolfboat 7th?

[jaunty dawn]

Thats when all the flyers yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/69/Canis-wolfborn-mini.jpg

[gray basalt]

Sure they are psykers, I don't like psykers on principle

[floral herald]

I don’t remember I wasn’t really playing or paying attention in 7 thru most of 9e

[thin ibex]

To be fair the 1k sons are now like the 300 sons and a lot of automatons

[thin ibex]

I'm still mad I got this model as a gift and then lost him

[bright dove]

I look forward to Kiev getting into TOW.

[gray basalt]

Psykers are tyrants by nature, and the big golden bastard is the biggest psyker of them all

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Space_Wolves You can see where SW up through 3rd were a few characters and then mostly just SMs with funky heads, and then 5th is where it started making unique line troops and started overstuffing with detail.

[floral herald]

I forgot he was in that wave haha

[thin ibex]

I do think WS were also ignoring Nikea they just didn't make a big deal out of it

[gray basalt]

They did ignore it

Sorta

[vital barn]

the 1ksons are a bunch of hubristic dicks but they are more charismatic about it than the Space Wolves are, who have the exact same gimmick of "these aren't daemons honest, we have Good Warp Entities" but the writers then go "yeah, they just get away with this, they're totally fine, we will prove them as close to objectively correct as we can"

[gray basalt]

They didn't hear about it till after the Heresy broke out

[main pagoda]

or rather the khan didnt

their chief stormseer was there

[vital barn]

meanwhile Russ is spending the whole Heresy slamming his face into cheesegraters and getting all his sons killed, then attempting to have character development, then doing it again

[gray basalt]

He was but Khan was on campaign and wasn't getting all the communications bc of the AL

[vital barn]

he runs in against Angron, he runs in against Magnus, he runs in against Horus and just continuously eats shit while ignoring all advice, then acts like he has some Deep Norse Wisdom

[thin ibex]

He also got big into start signs and crystals and fate magic and then didn't kill horus

[bright dove]

Sounds right for the man whose name became synonymous for a battle tank.

[thin ibex]

Iirc he had the chance to kill horus and didn't do it

[gray basalt]

Night of the Wolf was so funny

[hollow laurel]

Question for AoS: What lord do I need to get Longbeards and gunners?

[vital barn]

the tank is the far superior Leman Russ because the tank is useful

[thin ibex]

With good fate magic

[bright dove]

Cities of Sigmar, any dwarf commander.

[hollow laurel]

That doesn't get me gunners. Only the Longbeard part.

[thin ibex]

I still wanna try playing ogors in aos

[vital barn]

yep, and he got his entire legion shredded and pulled Corax and his boys away from their duties to bail him out, thus removing tens of thousands of marines from Terra and Beta-Garmon, then couldn't go through with it because he was a wimp

D tier primarch

[hollow laurel]

Okay there are Irondrakes but still.

[gray basalt]

They rock

Ogors are honestly the coolest army from fantasy

I just wish they had a book or two

[gray basalt]

F tier on my list

Him and Dorn are at the bottom for me

I left D tier empty specifically to put them further down

[vital barn]

there's this hilarious scene between Dorn/Sangy/Jaghatai and Russ at Terra, where he goes "I'm going to run off and solo horus, right after I had a whole novella about learning not to get high on the title I gave myself and charge into stupid things" and everyone goes "that's dumb and you'll get your legion killed" and he then goes "yeah, but it's my legion to pointlessly throw away"

that's not as good a retort as the writers think it is

[hollow laurel]

BTW apparently the answer I needed is er, I need two different regiments. One for the guns one for the Longbeards.

Josie | System at 63 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) Okay there are Irondrakes but still.

[bright dove]

Good news, you can also get the gunners from a different regiment, yeah

[thin ibex]

I feel like dorn is just kinda a non guy, rather than bad, no? It's not like he didn't do anything in preparing the palace for war

[vital barn]

yeah, I don't think much either way about Dorn

he's what he is

most average primarch

[gray basalt]

I don't like how they made him be in the Siege of Terra

[hollow laurel]

The thing is, what I wanna run, really, I want a Tercio.

[thin ibex]

Sang of course is gods most perfect princess and he has never done wrong

[gray basalt]

Also the HH 2.0 fists rules made me mad

[thin ibex]

Are fists in hh still the bolter legion?

[gray basalt]

3.0 they got super nerfed but yes they retain that

They didn't deserve the nerf they got honestly

[vital barn]

Primarchs refusing to take advice and then making a series of stupid decisions is par for the course, but the way Russ is written is very obviously trying to evoke him being a tragic saga protagonist who has learned from his mistakes and instead he just comes across as a total dipshit

[gray basalt]

GW over corrected like usual

Preach

[vital barn]

as opposed to, say, Mortarion, Magnus or Perty, who have the same hubris but with fewer writers in their corners

[thin ibex]

I haven't read his fate chasing saga, which I'm somewhat glad for

[vital barn]

3.0 fists are solid honestly, no complaints about them

[gray basalt]

I love Morty

[vital barn]

they're not cracked any more, but they have good stuff

[thin ibex]

Because i can still keep my own mental image of he guy

I'm currently reading the plague wars novels

[vital barn]

Huscarls are really mean, +1 to hit on all bolter shots including snapshots is great in Volley Fire Edition

[gray basalt]

Mortarion is my boy and he didn't deserve the fate he got

[thin ibex]

And morty has got fixation issues

[gray basalt]

The best depiction of Morty is in his Primarch book

[thin ibex]

Him and kugath get along as like the least joyful of Nurgles chosen

[gray basalt]

But you have to read verdict of the scythe with it

[vital barn]

HH Fists also have Sigismund, who is no longer as bugfuck insane as he was in 1e and 2e but is still an A tier duelist

[gray basalt]

Before or after doesn't matter

[vital barn]

(S tier duelists are Primarchs and that's about it, they're miles above anything else except maybe Samus and Ka'Bandha)

[thin ibex]

Typhus also exists to continually just say "Fuck you dad"

[gray basalt]

Yea bc Typhus sucks

No one likes him except him and maybe Nurgle

And his cronies

[sour sequoia]

Reading thru the DG lore to find where they turned and fell and hoping for something interesting on the theming

[gray basalt]

Buried Dagger

[sour sequoia]

And then it literally is just typhus doing ‘lol said the scorpion. lmao’

[gray basalt]

Ye

[bright dove]

Fulgrim took direct demonic intervention.

As did Horus.

Kharn was always going to go apeshit at some point.

... *Angron

But also Kharn.

[gray basalt]

That moment is really interesting bc Mortarion is internally struggling with his "blindspot" for Typhon and his hatred of psykers

[bright dove]

Perty was also a ticking time bomb of resentment.

[gray basalt]

He knows Typhon is a psyker but he likes him too much to just murder or exile him

And the Becalming was the ultimate price

For letting his friend stick around

[bright dove]

Lorgar... Boy did Lorgar get shafted, but on the other hand.

He got told multiple times to stop that shit.

[brittle salmon]

I don't even think they got nerfed much at all? They still have Fire Discipline and everything

[gray basalt]

It's based on how many marines are in the unit now instead of just getting a flat +1

[brittle salmon]

No, it's based on how many dice you have in the firing group

You only need to have 5 shots or more

That's nothing

[gray basalt]

Well yea but Big E sucks so it doesn't count

[bright dove]

No, I'd say it counts. If we can say Magnus is wrong, then we can definitely say Lorgar is.

[jaunty dawn]

Lorgar is the best primarch he just has a goal and goes for it

[gray basalt]

Magnus wasn't completely wrong

[gray basalt]

That's better than I thought

[sour sequoia]

Lorgar’s at least like, one of the most in control of himself traitors left isn’t he

[gray basalt]

I thought it was 5 marine

[jaunty dawn]

Makes it everyone’s problem

[gray basalt]

I can go find my Primarch tier list

[bright dove]

If by in control you mean staying in his tower to avoid Raven Swoop Season, yes.

[sour sequoia]

His rawest deal is that Corvus “I am a single issue voter and the issue is tearing Lorgar a new asshole” Corax breaks into his house daily

[gray basalt]

I have one floating around

Corax can't even win against Lorgar if Lorgar actually tries

[bright dove]

Also it is very funny that now that the Imperium completely and utterly accepts his teachings, they would have absolutely nothing to do with him.

[gray basalt]

But Lorgar won't actually try bc he loves his brothers

[bright dove]

Which is the best prank by the Ruinous Powers

"I wrote that!"
"SHUT YOUR FILTHY LIE HOLE, HERETIC!"

[gray basalt]

Definitive tier list

[vital barn]

why so low for Dorn?

[gray basalt]

I don't like him from the books I've read with him in it

The only time he was any amount of interesting was punching Garro

[vital barn]

Lorgar I feel is really due a W because he got like three books of character development and then never really got to flex it

except momentarily in Betrayer

[gray basalt]

He may get to flex soon in the current era 40k bc he is out of the warp apparently

[gray basalt]

Most of these are the Siege of Terra books, in which Dorn really sucks

Imo

[thin ibex]

Tbh it don't mind if lorgar just gets Saturday morning cartoon villaind over and over

[gray basalt]

He never does imo except maybe in Slaves to Darkness

[thin ibex]

I mean now that he's out of the warp, I don't really think he needs to ever get a big W

He can just scheme and fail constantly

[gray basalt]

Most of the folks in WBs who get cartoon villianed is lesser named WBs

[gray basalt]

That's true

[thin ibex]

Let him join curze in the FailSons squad

[pastel rampart]

Lorgar got the biggest W by way of the Imperium adopting his writing.

[gray basalt]

I don't trust GW to use the Primarchs in 40k in any interesting way

[bright dove]

Eh, Robot got to move us out of the 41st millenium finally.

If nothing else, that's a win.

[thin ibex]

How many loyalists we got rn? 2 right?

[gray basalt]

Just 2

[thin ibex]

4 chaos, 2 loyal

[bright dove]

Lion and Robute.

[gray basalt]

Technically 3 if you count Sanguinor

[bright dove]

I don't because that's a Weird Thing.

[stark cypress]

The Khan is still out there somewhere

The Raven continues to stalk the False Preacher.

[pastel rampart]

I would not be surprised if we got another loyalist before the end of the year, but if not 2026 seems definite.

[thin ibex]

Give us vulkan lives, wacked out with waaaagh energy and confused about his final orders to the salamanders. Give us corvus too angsty even for his own legion

[stark cypress]

The Praetorian and The Knight have returned from their crypt-slumber.

The Khan is still missing.

The Wolf Lord is still missing.

[thin ibex]

Dorn is clearly secretly in Centurion armor in the throne room

[stark cypress]

The Raven stalks the warp to harass the False Preacher while the Bright Son remains shattered.

[thin ibex]

It's a fan theory that ferrus leads the legion of the damned right?

[stark cypress]

Yes

The Iron Son is still dead...No matter how many necromatic copies his sons make.

[jaunty dawn]

Fan theory because he did actually show up one time

[stark cypress]

Thank goodness his fire-brother killed that abomination.

[jaunty dawn]

As a ghost

[stark cypress]

Oh, that reminds me. Someone is kickstarting proxies for Guela.

Lemme get the lonk.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warscenery/united-empire-3d-printable-sci-fi-terrain-and-minis

[jaunty dawn]

Fighting the daemons in the palace iirc

[thin ibex]

I think the most interesting returners would be slow Khan, beastly but wizened leman, orky Vulkan, or Corvus

Corvus doesn't need a modifier, we already know he's like, an anime character at this point

[jaunty dawn]

I think leman is the most likely

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, with a big SW release it makes sense to have Russ show up.

[thin ibex]

I kinda just don't want leman as just like... normal leman back and fresh

[jaunty dawn]

I think the vibe of the sw release is good tidings

[stark cypress]

Please let their be a bone thrown to another faction

[thin ibex]

Lion got old, slowed down, slightly more mellow. Leman should be irrevocably changed by his time away too

[stark cypress]

Bring back Corsair models

[jaunty dawn]

But yeah since sanguinius isnt a thing leman makes most sense

[thin ibex]

I wish for vulkan, but like his sons I think it will not happen

They gotta find all his shit first

[jaunty dawn]

He should have two models like morathi and at first its a werewolf thing but then they decide theres two leman russes now

[thin ibex]

Bloodborn leman would be cool

[stark cypress]

Two Leman Russi? In this economy?

How quaint.

[gray basalt]

So I was thinking about Primarchs coming back (personally not a fan even tho as a kid I really wanted it) but what if they did a blood bowl-esque style game for 40k but it's professional wrestling

[stark cypress]

Necromunda would do that

[gray basalt]

Macho man lion' El Johnson elbow dropping Kane Angron would rock

[thin ibex]

Leman, but he is a loyalist daemonweapon, has to be wielded by someone

[stark cypress]

I mean

Corvus Corax is also a loyalist Daemon too.

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah but a sword

Or a axe

[thin ibex]

Yeah but I mean like he's in an axe or a spear or something

[stark cypress]

Man, that family reunion would be so awkward.

[thin ibex]

Not just a daemon

[stark cypress]

Oh yeah

[thin ibex]

And then he can thematically be like a cursed sword

Gets wielded by doomed heroes

[stark cypress]

Logan Grimnar has the Khrone axe.

[thin ibex]

it would be really ironic if logan and marneus died and dante just kept stickign around

[stark cypress]

Yeah

[upper canopy]

Well id be really surprised if they killed Calgar now

[stark cypress]

I want a box of Raptors instead of kitbashing some.

[upper canopy]

Even though hes redundant

[thin ibex]

yeah no i dont see it happening, since yo know he's just coming out

but narratively, i think itd kinda neat for a titan of the era to actually die

or get meaningfully retired effectively

[past sphinx]

fun fact, i just double checked and Cawl has been the Admechs singular named character for longer than calgar was in gravis armor

[pastel rampart]

Named characters rarely die in 40k, at best you get a Tycho situation where it's stats from when he was alive.

Yarrick notwithstanding of course, but he wasn't a space marine.

[stark cypress]

Or Cain

but he died in his bed

[thin ibex]

cain never had a board presence existence did he?

[stark cypress]

He had rules

[thin ibex]

oh i didn't even know lol

[stark cypress]

And I think he a model at one point?

But it was just the standard Commissar?

Oh wait no

He actually had an official model at one point

[thin ibex]

after plague wars i kinda wanna just go through the entire eisenhorn/ravenor/bequin series again

[stark cypress]

I just want more guard regiments

I would even be okay with Maccabians.

[jaunty dawn]

Id be surprised if whatever the next imperial guard release that happens isnt another regiment

Hopefully catachan at some point

[stark cypress]

Be so funny if out of everybody, they bring back the Victorians.

[thin ibex]

i feel like they opened up to having regiment specific unit without needing a whole range

which i think was good

now they just need to do it

[gray basalt]

I hope they don't make Victorians

[jaunty dawn]

Like there has been cadian refreshes but like. They’ve been doing it

[thin ibex]

I would love Valhallans back, but as far as like a unit niche, kriegsmen kinda already do their thing

[gray basalt]

Tallarn would be the coolest regiment to do

[stark cypress]

All right, compromise.

[past sphinx]

Vostroyans

[thin ibex]

Tallarn would be sick

[past sphinx]

they have the sauce

[stark cypress]

Official GW kitbash of Cities of Sigmar mixed with IG kit.

[thin ibex]

let tallarn be a unit that kinda works like sm scouts

or maybe a tallarn light tank

[past sphinx]

tallarn but as an enhancement

like a tank commander (RIP)

[stark cypress]

Beastmen regiment

[past sphinx]

good old "Abhuman rabble"

[stark cypress]

This is my wishcasting regiment.

But official sculpts of the Lucifer Blacks.

[thin ibex]

hmm since we're wishlisting, what would a unique vostroyan unit do? battleline lasguns with longer range and improved cover benefit?

[tepid stratus]

Yo a combined "guardians of terra" regiment of the Lucifer blacks and palatine sentinels would go hard

[stark cypress]

It so would

like, the Lucifer Blacks could be a grunt/fodder unit in a Custodes army list.

[past sphinx]

better leadership, probably some bonus for fighting in ruins

[tepid stratus]

I briefly had a guard army where my tempestus units where painted up as Lucifer blacks while my artillery and basic guardsmen where palatine sentinels

[past sphinx]

"+1 to wound while is unit is inside terrain"

[tepid stratus]

Then GW killed tempestus as a gimmick

[stark cypress]

And before that

Stormtroopers

I honestly might trawl through Noble Knight and pick up a couple boxes of Scions.

[tepid stratus]

I had like 2000pts of straight scion stuff and another 1000 of generic guard infantry and artillery but GW killed the Scion detachment hard

[stark cypress]

That sucks

But on the other hand, you have a bunch of models for so many mini agnostic games.

[tepid stratus]

Tbh I sold them to fund my EC buy in

[upper canopy]

They did kill the head of the Tau

[stark cypress]

Understandable.

[past sphinx]

got my first proper 2k game o fknights in today

it was uhh

not good

[hollow laurel]

Dat some big 'Nids.

[past sphinx]

nid conceded 3rd round and boy i wasnt because i was really on the ball

a complete lack of artifice just a bunch of big fucking stat blocks

[mental birch]

Jsut knights for you

Statchecks

[past sphinx]

it wasnt beacuse i was on the ball*

i want to see what the codex plays out to be because boy it felt fucking bad

[floral herald]

See when they sculpt Eldar they get it right the first time

Unlike these error prone attempts to sculpt calgar

[paper bluff]

They killed an assassin in melee!

[sour sequoia]

Basically all discussion of the meta rn is that we’re in for another 3 months of absolute batshit knights unless they absolutely gut the go fast detachment

“Haha my statcheck army go 20” through walls and then kill everything in LoS”

[thin ibex]

So knights and dg got it

Though ironically in my own play group, neither option has any representation

[sour sequoia]

Knights and DG with several of their counters nerfed 😔

[pale narwhal]

they've already nerfed it

pre-codex release

[thin ibex]

I saw there is a theory that Maelum Caedo was empowered by khorne to wreck shop solo

But one thought I had is that even empowered by khorne, that doesn't easily explain how he was handling multiple greater daemons like breakfast

[thin ibex]

Side note I'm kind of disappointed by Marneus being in Terminator Armour, I kinda like how he was the face of the Rubicon primaris sorta, in his custom Gravis armor

[untold swallow]

How friendly can a chapter that isn't the Iron Hands get with their Techmarines?

The Iron Priests seem

fairly well-regarded by the Space Wolves?

[brittle salmon]

Just fine, really? A lot of the Techmarine lore thats like "ooh they're aloof and not trusted" comes from rather old lore at this point - see Brother Martellus in Dawn of War 2, who is rather pleasant and seems liked by everyone

[untold swallow]

Oh

lmao

[jaunty dawn]

Dark angels dont trust them as much

So to put the more general case its more abt the chapter cult individually

[mental birch]

I thought they aren't trusted because they're fully ordained techpriests

And so part of 2 different power structure

[brittle salmon]

But there's also evidence they're trusted just fine

So

[brittle salmon]

This is realistically the answer

[upper canopy]

They're trusted just not with inner circle level shit

[desert jay]

I guess the Chaplain might look at Techmarines a little funny sometimes if he has opinions about Cult Mechanicus

[gray basalt]

Marines Malevolent are the true heroes of the Imperium

[upper canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-seal-gif-8993121496866626214

[jaunty dawn]

Tech marines are also like at the end of the day far more loyal to the chapter than any tech priest

[thin ibex]

I imagine, ignoring the power dynamics at play or faiths involved, part of the loss of some level of trust also comes from parting from the fraternity for the time that they are trained and ordained as tech priests

They become a brother apart

[floral herald]

I think it’s less “I can’t trust this guy in a fight” and more “we don’t trust this guy to uphold the chapter cult faithfully”

So no reclusiam promotions or the heights of chapter command or something instead

[floral herald]

Oh no

At least he’s not on a bike

[vital barn]

more Ultras?

who's this

[floral herald]

New captain model not for anyone in particular

But the TH/SS jump captain was a meta staple in like 7e

[thin ibex]

smash captain

the superior hunter killer missile

iirc a big reason they have melee the way it is in 10e, like str 8 TH, was to stop single leader monsters who could punch anything they wanted to death

[past sphinx]

Qoute-eth of the ancient texts

"arise and return to the waking dawn captain smashfucker"

[vital barn]

Chapter Master Smashfucker and his flying cousin Murderwings, yeah

but thunder hammers have basically always been S8, that's not new

what did they change, other than making a lot of things tougher?

Horus Heresy hammers are S7 and slightly faster than the S8 fists, since HH actually uses initiative, but that's unique to 3.0

[jaunty dawn]

warhammer day model

making things tougher

but like

yeah that does it haha

also slightly more wounds now I think

[floral herald]

This one is explicitly being added to the normal roster

[jaunty dawn]

while damage stayed 3

[floral herald]

Sadly the cooler one is not

[jaunty dawn]

oh like they're just gonna keep selling smash captain?

[floral herald]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

wild

makes sense

kinda just feels like they were like

we want more space marine model

how can we sneak another on into the range

[floral herald]

Yeah lol

[pastel rampart]

I like it. Reminds me of some old metal chaos lords circa 6th ed.

It has a very understated but imposing air to him.

[deft crest]

Headsup for anyone building deathwatch, The instructions make it seem WAY more grim than it is, You get all your options except deciding which Gravis Gunner you want, Meaning you only have to magnetize one model. NOT ALL OF THEM
-# Theja spent 5 hours watching violet evergarden and magnetizing only 3 models before they realized they get 10 models not 5 from the box

[upper bluff]

He's got that Darth Vader energy

[floral herald]

Unless you’re 1 boxing them in which case you are going to hell

Also the Hordeslayer and Bombard are easy as fuck to magnetize

[deft crest]

They are

Very

[upper bluff]

If my love of Skitarii rangers didn't make it clear I'm a huge fan of coats and cloaks

[deft crest]

But i was a fool

[floral herald]

I’m curious how the Deathwatch KT will land in terms of balance

They seem strong as FUCK to me

[dense idol]

i don't want to do too much armchair game designer rambling before we start seeing tournament stats

but yeah

[deft crest]

They are going to be like

60%

bet

Dude giving a weapon free blast 1 or any of the other keywords is like

WOOF

even their sniper while lacking silent is crazy, They get to do the Gaurd like the necron do but they don't need to pay a commandpoint into em

[dense idol]

what are horde teams even supposed to do against a hypothetical 20 shooting actions per round

[deft crest]

D I E

The necrons seem stupid strong until you realize they can't phase the nodes through terrain

even then they get to have 3 of their roster be expendable and respawnable

[floral herald]

They don’t have a lot of good melee or ways to fuck with LoS so I guess the usually conceal and melee

But it rough

[floral herald]

Yeah that part is dumb

I think it might get errata’d it feels super wrong

I figured it was gonna be like the Tunnel

[deft crest]

Its tough because they do get a LOT of stuff that is like

better than tunnel for em

Because tunnels
Can't move
need to be WHOLEY within,
Suck on 1/2 the maps*

[floral herald]

Ok I guess they do have a lot of good melee (aegis, hammerbro, blademaster, knoife guy, leader) but then their shooting it bad

[floral herald]

What do you mean by wholly within?

[deft crest]

So they need to be setup Wholey within 5" of eachother nodes can be just on the edge

[floral herald]

Oh ok I understand

[deft crest]

You end up with a lot of weird cases where your tunnels fall short

or have to remove buildings during play to put them down

[floral herald]

I was thinking more of being able to breach walls for tomb world/ITD

[deft crest]

I haven't seen if they clarifyied if you can do the through the wall with your tunnels in TW yet but i assume it will be the same as ITD

[floral herald]

I also think that the new approved ops will hurt DW a lot

Which might balance them out

Since they have a lot of mission actions and being able to take a lot of them a lot of places is valuable

[deft crest]

-# But where do people even play ITD it takes 40 minutes to set up a map

i haven't built my TW terrain so I'm hoping its a hair quicker

[floral herald]

It’s way better I am told

I haven’t tried setting it up yet

I got sleepy before cleaning and gluing all 20 pillars lol

[sour sequoia]

Tomb World stuff looks easy

[floral herald]

My test fits go together great

[sour sequoia]

Better than ITD is a low bar tho

[deft crest]

-# I wish the box was like the boarding actions box and just a hair stronger

I love when a terrain/game box is able to take a beating and store everything with room to spare

[hollow laurel]

Question: What's ITD?

[deft crest]

Into The Dark

Its the expansion with hallways and doors thats supposed to be inside a ship/spacehulk

Also known as Boarding Action for 40k

[hollow laurel]

I see. And it's a pain to build?

[deft crest]

Its, Time consuming.

Not that bad

but compared to volkus where its like 10 minutes of quick measurements

its not played as often.

[hollow laurel]

Fair.

[deft crest]

Its also like, Kinda mean to some teams versus others?

[sour sequoia]

It is one of the coolest gamemodes/terrain sets but its so intensive

[deft crest]

but thats not a problem imo

[hollow laurel]

Ugh, I need to actually to get into the 40k TTS community, don't I?

[sour sequoia]

Just @ the finest idiots in here I’m actually fairly sure a lot of people would be willing to TTS warhammer

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/killteam/s/dLIlnXy1ZO

This is also good to know for Tomb World

[sour sequoia]

And my experience of wider TTS warhammer is they’re lame as hell

[floral herald]

Same

I mostly only know TTS kill team though

[hollow laurel]

Hm, fair. I'm just easily spooked by asking for.. People to play with. ><

[floral herald]

Yeah ITD changes the balance some

[hollow laurel]

So I end up doing this maladaptive longing in the area instead. ><

[floral herald]

I’m surprised how well it stays balanced though

[deft crest]

yeah

I wish i had a better idea of how much scatter terrain to use for it

<--- uses NONE

[floral herald]

Tomb World fixes this thankfully

[sour sequoia]

I play mandrakes my thoughts of ITD are not really to be trusted

[deft crest]

I think my fav ITD team is like, Necrons or clowns

one because i can be a bitch and shoot and charge meanly, The other is because i can pretend that i'm playing mechanicus 2 and Dance of the Cryptec is playing

[hollow laurel]

Something tells me ITD and Guard don't mix.

Now XV-8s on the other hand.

[floral herald]

They do fine

[deft crest]

Well you'd be surprised

Where you getting to bring a battlesuit into this

PUT DOWN THE ELITES BOOK

-# I'M NOT GOING BACK

[hollow laurel]

I don't know? My brain's still in 9E mode.

[deft crest]

Nah your good lol

Kill Team isn't like how it was back then, Your teams are pretty restrictive but its IMO a better experience for it.

So no battlesuits in this, but that means no custodes either

[hollow laurel]

Wait, this.. Yeah no Guard is gonna die without their heavy support. GEQs cannot survive against MEQs in a fair fight.

[floral herald]

This is KT forget most of what you know about bighammer balance points :p

[deft crest]

This ain't a fair fight

You will blow a marines headoff if they get cocky

Melta guardsmen hunt elites for breakfast.

[floral herald]

Of the guard KTs they’re both (Krieg Vets and Kasrkin) sort of weak rn but handle ITD fine

KVs fight in melee a lot anyway, and Kasrkin have such a density of good guns to spam Guard actions with

Oh I guess Ratling also count

[hollow laurel]

KVs?

[floral herald]

Krieg Veterans

[hollow laurel]

Ah.

[deft crest]

If you are interested in checking out the teams there is a free offical app that organizes the rules for them nicely

Its a glorified PDF reader but its a very good one

[hollow laurel]

IDK, I sorta like Bighammer but also OPR strikes me as better-balanced.

[floral herald]

Oh they’re just called Death Korps now whoops

A lot of death korps shooting is kinda to be laser designators for the bayonets

Since it’s really good

[hollow laurel]

Apropos to nothing, the T'au have animated TTS minis! :D

[deft crest]

So its sisters and flyboys after the next drop. My thought is we'll get Tau vs like, Some other xenos thats getting rotated out

because Tau pathfinders are cool but they could go real hard into the stealth operatives

[hollow laurel]

I also only just noticed, I'm sorry but is the Riptide's Heavy Burst Cannon just a GAU-8?

[main pagoda]

all rotatory guns kinda just look the same

[rocky shale]

I don't know opr but 40k balance is pretty much fine right now

[hollow laurel]

I more mean in the fact that it's a giant rotary cannon.

Well, ""giant"".

[floral herald]

More tau wouldn’t shock me

They did just get vespid I guess haha

[glad spear]

Yeah we did just get Tau fly boys

[sour sequoia]

GSC more than one killteam that’ll survive rotation

[floral herald]

Classification only matters if you play certain tournaments tbf

I think Brood Bros are still one of the really strong teams too

[sour sequoia]

Brood Brothers is strong it is simply me wishlisting since the old KT actually straight up let you have a kelermorph, sculpt of all time

[floral herald]

Yeah fair

I do wonder if some of the declassified teams will get reclassified to ensure their faction still has a kill team

Or if they’ll just release matching ones

[dense idol]

this will happen for Angels of Death and nobody else

a finger curls on the monkey's paw

[untold swallow]

well fuck

[floral herald]

https://preview.redd.it/can-someone-explain-the-whole-declassifying-thing-to-me-v0-hjmem4jihx7f1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=58725973fa5d451fa400ee0b204d628a97ccdd1d

[untold swallow]

That specifically is a problem

[floral herald]

AOD already got to stick around :p

[untold swallow]

Cuz I'm making a DA successor that hunts Fallen XD

[floral herald]

Makes me a little salty because I like Phobos more

[upper canopy]

And the chapter master is a techmarine or?

[untold swallow]

No I just had an idea that they could send those they trust the most to become Techmarines

Trusted not to spill the beans on the Fallen's existence

And thus when they come back that trust continues

[upper canopy]

That'd probably be the last kinda person youd want to send to get hypnoindocrinated by the mechanicus

[thin ibex]

Knowing how paranoid the DA are, yeah id expect no tech marines in the inner circle period. Even if they show all signs of loyalty and brotherhood, there is a competing loyalty that compromises them

[untold swallow]

Then how do the Disciples of Caliban work?

Cuz they're a Chapter that all know the Fallen exist afaik

[thin ibex]

it feels like the secrecy about the fallen is not so air tight as the chapter and text wants us to believe ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[floral herald]

Glancing at Lexicanum they still have an inner circle and false purpose

[thin ibex]

Wait, so then the whole chapter doesn't know?

[floral herald]

I don’t see anything in Lexicanum indicating that

[upper canopy]

I think its just the chapter was built specifically by azazel to hunt the fallen

[thin ibex]

I do think my point still stands, I don't think the fallen are as much of a secret as we're supposed to buy.

As much as the DA would like

There's a fallen shaped hole in the way they conduct their chapter business

[floral herald]

There has been a lot of lore development in 9e and 10e with this

[upper canopy]

Also like

Yeah

Fallen aren't a thing anymore

[floral herald]

So it’s sorta unclear what the party line for the Fallen is now

Since Lion is going around deciding if they’re cool or not now

[bright dove]

I like to think the Inquisition gives a weary sigh about the Dark Angel secret-keeping shenanigans that go on

While slowly drinking a cup of recaf thinking that it's about to be a lot of work in a short amount of time.

[thin ibex]

Also, didn't the Rock's core bail on em at the end of arks of Omen?

[floral herald]

No it was before the end of it

[bright dove]

"The fucking Space Marines think they're being sneaky again."

[floral herald]

But Vashtorr and pals managed to steal some important mcmuffin from it

[bright dove]

Mmmm, mcmuffin.

[thin ibex]

The rocks jails probably aren't so secure these days, what with lion giving folks the pass and the Rock getting rocked

[sour sequoia]

Strongest Dark Angel conspiracy versus Weakest Knight of the Raven operative (literally no lore except specifically the inquisition doesn’t know anything about em besides ‘there are three who joined deathwatch’)

[untold swallow]

I think I'm gonna drop the idea my successors are Fallen hunters and in fact go in the opposite direction since it introduces so many fuckin problems

They have close ties to the inquisition thanks to the circumstances of their founding and their view of Malcador, but these ties plus their adherence to the Creed alienates them from the wider Unforgiven legion and thus vanishingly few, maybe even only the Chapter Master, know of the Fallen

[hollow laurel]

You know, something I wanna see? Neo-volkite rifle for officers.

I mean ideally for sergeants too, but officers is more likely.

[deft crest]

OH hey quick question now that i remember

What chapter is the Heart with a teardrop near it

uhhh

That one

[upper canopy]

Lamenters?

[deft crest]

Ahhh

Gotcha.

Funnily enough i know nothing about them so i saw that and just thought jojo

[upper canopy]

Wait, how Jojo

[hollow laurel]

Oh God the Lamenters.

[untold swallow]

So I'm running this idea by some people in a 40k homebrew server and they're just kind of acting like the concept is dead on arrival which I don't get lol

[upper canopy]

You could tie it jnto the Disciples of Caliban

[main pagoda]

they are a BA successor chaptor that fought against the imperium in the badab war. They are one of the DW big chapters in terms of appearance

[untold swallow]

'It doesn't make sense that there'd be a less trusted chapter of the Unforgiven since every chapter has its own inner circle'

[upper canopy]

As payment for Azazels weird request they founded another chapter under Inqusitroial scrutiny

[untold swallow]

They still would have an inner circle, they'd just be viewed as the weird religious cousins no one wants to talk to <XD

possibly

I had the idea they were founded by one of Malcador's Knights Errant originally

and view the Sigillite as a saint, thus explaining their close ties to his successor organization

[jaunty dawn]

You dont have to know the fallen exist to shoot the guy your captain tells you to

[floral herald]

I think “less reliable” fallen hunters could totally exist in the Unforgiven

[jaunty dawn]

Uh but also there are inner circle mechanically inclined space marines theyre just not mars-astartes covenant techmarines

And they train in the secret dark angel shit instead of the basic how to fix a rhino shit

[floral herald]

Also an option yeah

Techmarines are fundamentally a way for the red priests to exercise control over space marines

[sour sequoia]

Need someone with a PhD on funney superweapons from the dark age of tech

[untold swallow]

I mean I've mostly elided the techmarine problem now

By making the whole chapter kind of pariah to the wider Unforgiven

[upper canopy]

They can also just be like

Geographically isolated from the dark angels proper

If only the Inner Circle knows and then the Chapter Keep and most of high command is destroyed or damaged

Then after that no one knows

[untold swallow]

Oh a fun bit my chapter has is they prefer thermal and flame weaponry

to the point they sometimes joke about liking working alongside the Sororitas so much they adopted their trinity

[hollow laurel]

Are they still like, pseudo-monks?

[floral herald]

They’re kinda reminding me of the Fire Angels

[untold swallow]

Yes

[past sphinx]

aint all astartes monks?

[hollow laurel]

Mm. I had a custom chapter that was like, air assault White Scars successor? But IDK.

[untold swallow]

they're like

[hollow laurel]

Not sure if I'll explore it more.

[untold swallow]

fully and actually monks

my chapter

like

they illuminate manuscripts and debate about the Imperial Creed

while guarding pilgrimages between Shrine Worlds

[hollow laurel]

I just honestly try to avoid playing the Astartes in TT because like, everyone does that.

[floral herald]

I’m not sure what you mean haha

[hollow laurel]

Is that literal or joking?

[past sphinx]

come to think of it

[untold swallow]

reads Fire Angels lexicanum

"FUCK"

[past sphinx]

ive only played against marines like 3 or 4 times

[floral herald]

They’re a cool chapter, I figured they might be a good touchstone haha

[floral herald]

I misread but it’s less space marines than you’d expect

[hollow laurel]

Really? Huh.

[floral herald]

I think a lot of space marine buyers just like the models more than playing or smth

[hollow laurel]

I kinda heard that like, everyone either plays Astartes or has them as their backup.

[past sphinx]

lotta bugs

lotta tau

various eldar

[hollow laurel]

I like my Guard personally. :>

[untold swallow]

They are but now i feel like im just making DA fire angels xD

[hollow laurel]

But maybe I should bring back the Air Assault Astartes.

But I think I'd restructure them into like, independent companies?

[rocky shale]

Yeah that's not the case even if you include csm

[sour sequoia]

I have one of the larger collections of folks I know now and exclusively play xenos outside of heresy

[floral herald]

I play chaos space marines primarily

[sour sequoia]

Its 60% of the playerbase/models bought but also like. Thats because there’s a massive buyers demographic of ‘parents buying starter kits for their 11yo child so they’re just gonna buy the bundles that always have space marines’

[floral herald]

But I keep getting deals on chaos knights models…

I like chaos

[sour sequoia]

Its a poster boy faction but if you like em, play em

With the new detaches and non-ultramarines chapters getting characters for the first time in god knows how fucking long they’re coming back to having identity besides ‘goodest guys who win all the things’

[rocky shale]

I have only ever bought 2 war dogs at msrp

I have too many knights still

14 dogs and like 6 bigs (no cerastus)

[floral herald]

Jesus

I have 7 dogs and 1 big

[vital barn]

Honestly there's so much other shit going on in 40k that I keep accidentally forgetting that space marines exist

[rocky shale]

7 of my dogs are from that battleforce lol

I got 2 of my bigs from a local guy for like $40 each or something

[vital barn]

Knights, Titans, Custodes filling the role of "Marines but even more so and even better" and all the fun Guard/Admech/Ministorum stuff means it's surprisingly easy to round a few hundred bald men in primary colours off the end of every force org

[rocky shale]

2 bigs and 4 dogs from someone selling out of IK

Just lots of random Facebook marketplace steals

[vital barn]

although I admit this is because I prefer the 30k grungy marines and if I made a 40k chapter for some reason I'd probably be trying to recapture some of that

[rocky shale]

My gf has started referring to it as "swindling" lmao

Tho I really just don't need any more knights ever unless I want a cerastus, which is nice

Especially if I just grab some spare gun 3d prints for making duplicate loadouts

There's not many other armies that it's manageable to own basically a full playset for any option in the army

[sour sequoia]

There’s a few xenos that still have pretty tight ranges, ironically GSC rewards kitbashing, MSU and varying your trash options so much that it may be one of the easier ones

I buy two more trucks and I’ve got the real playable amount of anything in the faction, more than 40 neophytes ever is basically just for memes with Host nerfed

[rocky shale]

GSC still has a small enough range, probably drukhari after the codex gutted the range

Maybe votann

Custodes if you exclude FW

[sour sequoia]

The kicker is ‘playset goal’ immediately makes it absurd because oops all battleline

[rocky shale]

Yeah I mean like reasonable quantities

Which would only be 6x if anyone actually does that

[sour sequoia]

120 neophytes, 120 acolytes, 30 metamorphs, 3 of every dipshit character lmao