Warhammer and Such

[hollow laurel]

Note: 75 individual soldiers, not 75 points (5 man teams)

[mental birch]

I'm pretty sure a decent attack wing can drive off a dropship

[floral herald]

They’re also inexplicably fast but yeah

[mental birch]

Aerodynamics is a heretical suggestion

[hollow laurel]

True, BT can probably field bombers.

[vital barn]

ah, here's the Fury, the stock Imperial Navy fighter

[hollow laurel]

Sorry, 40k.

[vital barn]

incomprehensible stats and aesthetics on this thing unfortunately

it's 60m long, has no listed mass, is crewed by three people and apparently has somewhere between two and eight... normal lascannon

[floral herald]

It’s very heavily armed and big by 40k standards

[vital barn]

and a bunch of missiles

[floral herald]

Always been a bit of a mystery since its origin in BFG

[vital barn]

I'm going to assume the missiles are comically large and the lascannon are just secondaries because otherwise this thing is 50x the size of a Xiphon and has far less firepower than the nippy little atmospheric fighter

[mental birch]

Seems very lifht

Lightly armed

[vital barn]

also has a smaller crew than a Leman Russ

which I could buy for a mechanicus craft but Navy pilots are just guys

the Starhawk is a bit more reasonable

although don't ask what a "plasma bomb" is because it's not mentioned anywhere else

[floral herald]

My sort of rationale for it in the past was that most of it is just engines and fuel to do deep space ops

And a fighter on the front

[vital barn]

OK, I have procured the [Feudal]blade books, time to find out if they actually mention knight house numbers in here

I didn't actually know these guys existed, chalking up another thing that makes me think the WOB are trying really hard to be the Mechanicum but can't quite pull it off

they seem to have an appropriate number of internal factions

also I forgot how much of Kingsblade's first act was just these teenage knight pilots living it up and acting like Generation Kill characters

which is actually really neat, I kind of like it

[floral herald]

Almost all of the knight books are a way to infiltrate interesting writing into black library ime

A lot of em aren’t quite what you’d expect and such

[mental birch]

These aren't field guns these are organically attached special weapons

[vital barn]

blasting enemy positions out of existence and screaming their heads off whenever it happens while around them the poor bastard guardsmen are getting owned

[mental birch]

Think grenade launcher or HMG in a unit

[vital barn]

from what I can decipher from the incomprehensible doctrine GW gives to Skitarii, the skitarii equivalent of a field gun is a Kataphron

[mental birch]

Can't be

[vital barn]

which are, at least in the books, often deployed one to a squad of skittles

[mental birch]

I think its the dunestrider

Ironstrider

Derp

[vital barn]

the Onager is a tank, the ironstrider is a scout car

[mental birch]

That makes no sense tho

[vital barn]

this is a tankette with heavy weapons, I think it fits

[mental birch]

Thats a different army and requires a techpriest partying

[vital barn]

it's only a different army because GW can't get their shit together in the rules

the mech has a whole bunch of stuff intermixed in most of the lore

[mental birch]

Techpriest deigning to party with the

An

[vital barn]

honestly the army would be much cooler if you could do that like the old Guard heavy weapons teams in infantry squads

[mental birch]

Ballistari ironstrider is premier anti tank

[vital barn]

but in practice you just have to assume that if it's pure skitarii they have something that isn't in their official army list filling the role of all the stuff that isn't "slow artillery piece", "scout walker" and "infantryman"

[floral herald]

It’s just a white dwarf artifact yeah

[mental birch]

Feels more like a tank destroyer but I may be stuck with

8e btain

[vital barn]

big neutron laser is absolutely a tank destroyer, but the Eradication Beamer is more of a howitzer and the icarus array is SPAA, I think it's a fairly multipurpose chassis

[mental birch]

Fair

They do also have their Gavin

Rhino equivilant which is a hovercraft

[vital barn]

I kind of hate the tank version of that thing

the transport is neat enough

but the tank looks very derpy

OK, the actual knight book is deploying "well over three hundred" knights before the inevitable shitshow that requires our Generation Knight protagonists to actually make meaningful decisions

[mental birch]

The tank version feels like

Someone glued a turret to what used to be a transport

Modified a APC chassis to carry a gun

[vital barn]

yeah, it's not an elegant look

[jaunty dawn]

Dunewalker is peak

[vital barn]

I've really gone off the latest additions to the 40k mech range, it feels like they're really hammering down on "these guys look like shit and their tech is shit and their stats are shit, go horde army it up"

dunestrider and the original rangers/vanguard/ruststalkers look great

[jaunty dawn]

I Like the dog cavalry

[upper canopy]

40k Numbers, ho

[jaunty dawn]

And the skatros would be fine if they hadnt left it in a t-pose

But also they should make priesthood units ever

[vital barn]

the skatros, the pteraxii and the flappy helicopter just look awful to me

[jaunty dawn]

I guess they made the big servitor squad now

[vital barn]

the 30k skitarii are coming out soon, interested to see what they have going on

the fins on that gun indicate photon weapon

[jaunty dawn]

Ooh yeah

[vital barn]

presumably either a special weapon or lighter than the standard thallax photon thrusters because the P.T. is a similar firepower grade to a multimelta

which is a bit big to hand out to whole squads of skittles

whole squads of thallax, yeah

[mental birch]

Wait there gonna ve mroe than the resin upgrade kit

[vital barn]

Iunno

[mental birch]

For a very niche never played army

[vital barn]

this is the only preview we've got

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah its a new thing

Very exciting

[vital barn]

it's probably a 30k version of the vanguard/rangers kit since we know it makes "Pylgrims" (shooty light inf with photon weapons, so probably what's in the teaser) and "Protectors" (melee guys)

copyrightable letter Y is annoying but I like the idea of photon gang

[mental birch]

Oooo melee skittles

[jaunty dawn]

Theyre more sicaran sized I think

[vital barn]

photon weapons are the mechanicum version of DEldar darkfire, so they shoot beams of black light that cut straight through things rather than ablating

[jaunty dawn]

Based on the legs

[vital barn]

likely

but it's Heresy, anything under 3+ T4 is light inf

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

I kinda expect the protectors to be a bit more beefy than the skirmishy sicarans that exist but its not like theyre actually gonna be coexisting

[vital barn]

30k mech could use some standard infantry, so this is definitely filling a meaningful gap

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

[vital barn]

much as I like the Helldivers-illuminate army construction of elite overseers and jetpack inf, hordes of zombies and big stompy monsters

[mental birch]

I need jetpack infantry spam lol

[vital barn]

it's actually quite good

you'll need some scoring but Thallax and Ursarax are both real contenders and much more affordable now

Thallax are 20ppm and you can then hand out a whole bunch of cheap heavy weapons, Ursas are 25ppm and come out of the box with everything they'll need to murderblend anything without AV14 all round or a 2+ save

[jaunty dawn]

Warhound / secutarii / militia does seem kinda fun tbh

[vital barn]

oh hey they made an iaijutsu titan legion

Many Faces of the Omnissiah: You stand still for 1 or 2 phases of first turn. For each phase activated with no action you can re-roll any one die later in the game.

[jaunty dawn]

Amazing

My favourite titan legion is the one that hangs out with world eaters and has a ton of warhounds with claws

[vital barn]

Legio Audax, they're in there

[upper canopy]

I really wanna use the Tzeentch Titan I came up in something

[vital barn]

they are the most harshly limited legion in the game but have a ton of stuff, since they can only have Warhounds and Knights but man do they have good warhounds

they get space hulk blip deployment

[jaunty dawn]

Yee

I think they can use dire wolves for heavy firepower

Or heavier at least

[thin ibex]

Are we doing btech vs 40k? What's the verdict so far?

[mental birch]

Scoring you mean

Techprirsts with robots

[vital barn]

yeah

allied chump infantry also good

[mental birch]

Techprirst attached to the shooty or punch bots

[vital barn]

Infil (18) militia are dirt cheap Line 1, even if they do suck

and they can reliably stand on points round 1, which mech struggles with and legions can always do with rhino tacs

[jaunty dawn]

Oof nvm secutarii are way less cool in 3e

[vital barn]

yeah they are pretty miserable

unfortunate

[upper canopy]

I feel like 40k wins right?

Fairly soundly

[thin ibex]

Against btech? Yeah I'm pretty sure

[upper canopy]

Battletech Mechs don't even work well in Battletech

[finite compass]

I miss the old Skitarii

Like the pre model range Skitarii descriptions

The Invicta skitarii, a throwback to more savage times, were fearsome beasts, striped and extravagantly marked, their armour built for threat, their genes selected for bulk. Muscular arms gleamed in the odd light. Heavy boots thumped in marching unison. Weapon limbs snapped up to salute as one. Feather plumes, ivory ornaments, leopardskin capes, modified fangs. The skitarii roared at the sky like predators, as fearsome and bestial as Space Wolves. Feist shuddered. The skitarii thumped their fists against their breastplates and howled again. Barbarians, Feist thought, so unlike our own. How can we be bred of the same stuff? They are like another race.

Hosts of the skitarii marched with them, rowdy and alarming. To Etta Severin, the skitarii seemed the polar opposite of the Guard or the PDF. They were gaudy, bestial, loud and brutish. They chomped for war, and uttered terrifying group yells of testosterone-fuelled antipathy. They were also non-uniform. She had never seen such a hybrid mix of feathers, furs, inbuilt weapons, claws, augmetics, engineering fangs, plumes, body armour, decorations and jewels. She knew that Gotch was nonplussed. He simply did not know what to make of the barbarian skitarii. They were not common soldiers, the type he had been trained with.

``

The skitarii of Legio Invicta swept into the yard like a flash flood. Gaudy giants in plumed and jewelled armour led the way, sprinting headlong, axe-bills raised and integrated weapons firing. Thick ranks of charging hypaspists followed the screaming elite, blades locked and stave weapons lowered in unified fans and pike lines. Bright banners trailed above them, both cloth flags and hololithic emblems projected from emitter poles. Amongst the surging ranks, Gentrian saw the four- and six-legged construct bodies of weapons servitors moving at full stride``

And so on

[vital barn]

those still exist, apparently, since Skitarii are not completely standardised

but we get the boring Mars-standard tin men

[cinder wraith]

carcharadons are so interesting

[sour sequoia]

The raven guard successors all go hard tbh

[charred bridge]

Chaos spawns being unimagibely different configurations but the models look super similar

[sour sequoia]

Shadow Haunters got weird dark souls vibes and could be loyalist night lords, there’s the bitches with the diamond throne they feed their serving chapter master to till he dies, the ashen claws are weird non-chaos traitors who seethe as much as iron warriors, there’s one that not even the inquisition or deathwatch knows where the hell they come from, just that they show up sometimes and Kayvaan Shrike says ‘yeah knights of the raven are my 5th cousin its Good’

[uneven ember]

Are Space Sharks confirmed Raven Guard successors, or is that still speculative?

[sour sequoia]

Its kinda the thing that lines up the most, nobody else wants em. Ironically IIRC the Ashen Claws’ one and only friends being the goddamn Carcharodons is noted as maybe the firmest evidence, since their response to any other imperial or chaos entity hailing them is ‘eat shit and die, we’re gonna board you now for saying hello’

[uneven ember]

makes sense

[thin ibex]

iirc the running theory is they're from what is effectively a chapter/detachment that was like exiles/sent to guard a place way way back

cause they have carcharadons have raven guard rank structure a bit

[uneven ember]

I just feel like it's important to have Chapters whose canonical Legion background is "i forgor lol"

[sour sequoia]

Space Sharks vibes are absolutely rancid and nobody wants em, works out

[uneven ember]

just firmly believe that we need more "mysterious groups of uncertain origin shrouded by millennia of secrecy and ignorance" and less "this is a direct extension of this thing from the Horus Heresy books"

[paper bluff]

That reminds me that I eventually have to get to reading that book of theirs that I bought

[paper bluff]

To be fair, there were traitor raven guard who were sent to go with the night lords. The terran raven guard had a few eggs that didn't like Corvus' message

[thin ibex]

crazy how terran RG didn't like Corvus whole anti-tyrant stance

[paper bluff]

Or the "you shouldn't use those extremely deadly and destructive weapons"

Also related to the talk

[sour sequoia]

Saturnine Dreadnoughts get the legion trait in horus heresy, we can enhance the shitpost

tfw the broadside of a barn starts wavedashing

[floral herald]

Raven guard are so cool… I can’t play all black space marines though

[soft willow]

What about all really dark blue space marines?

Maybe put some cool lightning bolts on there, and while we're at it bat wings.

[vital barn]

personally I'm feeling my shiny dark blue space marines who are very small because they're very far away

I've seen some people do some really neat stuff with iridescent paints to get that raven-feather shine effect on RG armour but I believe it requires some airbrush black magic

[thin ibex]

Aren't dark angels only green because of a printing issue?

Like they were intended to be in black armor too initially

[pastel rampart]

Yes.

Briefly they wore black armor back in 30k.

[vital barn]

their 30k incarnation still does

the green colour scheme that the 40k Dark Angels use is the heraldry of the 30k "Stormwing", the line infantry component of the old first legion

[main pagoda]

they did start melding in the green during luthers ruling of caliban

[vital barn]

the deathwing companions still have some splashes of their later full-body bone-white, too

[floral herald]

I'm painting my CSM as a hybrid NL and BL warband haha

[hollow laurel]

Out of curiosity, do the folks here arrange games between each other? ><

[finite compass]

My only issue with black color schemes in HH

Is that's literally a third of the loyalists

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/qp3XMpXAh1

[sweet solar]

I still wanna do a blackshield army, but themed after rogue trader era space marines when they were more like sardaukar cops, using one of the rogue trader era paintschemes

or like, a bunch of the different paint schemes, theming it as various blackshields adopting their own colours that would later go on to get re-used for succsessor chapters

[sweet solar]

fuck yeah

[uneven ember]

I picked Black Templars coughcough years ago because I thought black armor would be easy to paint

[finite compass]

I honestly was pondering a DiY chapter with the colors a bit like the DUNC Sardaukar

[uneven ember]

and it is easy to paint badly

but in retrospect this was not a wise move

[sweet solar]

i plan to make them playable for 40k too, run them as black templars, with the intigrated scouts as instead mixed units including a mix of local gangers and security forces

but this is a long term plan ive had for like 5 years now and havent started on lmao

[upper canopy]

How would this be different from White Scars?

[vital barn]

Integrated auxilia is extremely easy now

There are dedicated consuls to morale boost your militia and a cop provenance so you can have discipline masters with shock sticks and net guns

[finite compass]

Iconography and detailing different.

This is only the latest in stupid passing "I should do Space Marines based on X" fancies

Previously including such luminaries as What If the Brotherhood of Nod but Space Marines

[sweet solar]

mix of red and gray, bloodey red handprints and smeared red decals, unhelmeted or custom clear-faceplate heads, less bikes, sand bases?

[sweet solar]

oooooooooooooooooh

taking notes

[finite compass]

That'd work.

Though honestly

Minus the clear faceplate heads

That sort of screams Pre-Heresy World Eaters

[sweet solar]

i mean

that works for sardaukar too lol

[vital barn]

If you want more professional infantry, you can take Solar Aux and choose the Legion Auxilia option, which gives your SA troops a legion themed reaction

[finite compass]

Aesthetically true, at least for the movie version

[vital barn]

probably won't work with Blackshields though, although we don't have 3e rules for them yet

They're due in about two or three months along with Shattered Legions

[finite compass]

My understanding was the Sardaukar were meant to be like "Brutal, but also skilled and disciplined"

[hollow laurel]

To check, the current chatting is 30k, right?

[finite compass]

Whereas World Eaters just jack up the Brutal to 11 and handwave the rest

[vital barn]

Mine is, yes

[sweet solar]

kinda mixed but yeah

[hollow laurel]

Okei!

[finite compass]

Also for RT era stuff

Hunger for Borgar

[hollow laurel]

RT-era being..?

[finite compass]

Rogue Trader

1e 40k

[hollow laurel]

Oh, wait, Rogue Trader (book). ><

[uneven ember]

Rogue Trader
the earliest edition of 40K

[hollow laurel]

I was thinking when in-setting it was.

[finite compass]

https://tenor.com/view/heretic-burger-warhammer-sanguinius-gif-18201763

[sweet solar]

nebulous

retconned out of existence mostly

Rogue Trader 1e 40ks period was during the historical perod when marneus calgar was a normal space marine general

but so was roboute guilliman

[finite compass]

When a Primarch was just 'the guy that founded the chapter'

[hollow laurel]

Mm.. An odd era.

[sweet solar]

which is a period that doesnt exist

[vital barn]

Previous editions of 30k had a list called "Army of Dark Compliance" which let you run Marines and Militia in the same detachments and sometimes even in the same units, with SM sarges on GEQ squads

[finite compass]

And the Horus Heresy wasn't a thing yet

[sweet solar]

that was part of the inspo

[vital barn]

I'm not sure we're getting that this edition but you can do it fine with normal allies rules

[finite compass]

And Space Marines wrote slogans on their armor like an extra in a Vietnam War movie

[vital barn]

they're considerably more forgiving than they used to be

[sweet solar]

that and my OLD idea of running 40k salamanders but use black templars rules and model the intigrated scouts as mixed armour imperial guards with in-squad space marine support

[finite compass]

And the general vibe of space marines was "Psychopathic criminals that have been brainwashed into being supersoldiers that mostly terrorize civilians"

[main pagoda]

so yes but also no, the earlier you look in the HH and GC era the more martial pride the WE have and i think the pits kinda show off that gladiator pride that embodies the legion even lost in the nails

[uneven ember]

we must always remember that, ultimately, the Horus Heresy was an excuse to release game lines where they only had to make one set of models

[finite compass]

Yes

Horus was also just 'the Emperor's most favored General'

But yeah, the literal reason is "We're making a board game but only have the budget for one sprue"

"So it's a civil war"

[vital barn]

Probably a non zero factor even today

[finite compass]

This, specifically

[main pagoda]

love AT

shit is so fun to play

[finite compass]

IMO

[sweet solar]

ahhh my childhood aesthetic

[finite compass]

The finest game that GW has ever produced

Is Mordheim

[sweet solar]

leopard print titans 😌

[hollow laurel]

..Thinking about Gravis-armour Raptors (chapter).

[main pagoda]

for me the best GW game is necromunda

[finite compass]

That's a very close second for me

[uneven ember]

I mean they literally turned AI into a Horus Heresy game for just that reason

[main pagoda]

mainly just cause its so self contained but still feels so vast

[finite compass]

I just tend to like Fantasy better. 😛

[uneven ember]

🛩️ 💔 😢
(in the aaaaarms ooooof....)

[main pagoda]

and the rule set is chefs kiss

[sweet solar]

peak imperial knights aesthetic

[finite compass]

this is just reminding me I need to actually paint all the Escher I have

[rose hill]

i generally like 40k more than fantasy except for one thing

[finite compass]

I sort of fell off on it because I couldnt' find a scheme I liked

[main pagoda]

never had the chance to play mordheim tbh would love to check it out from the quick overview i had its basically necro but fantasy

[rose hill]

fantasy has skaven

[uneven ember]

you don't need to find a scheme

[main pagoda]

oh god my condolences

[sweet solar]

next time we get an imperial knights new codex i hope we get ONE new model for one of the base varities of knights

[uneven ember]

"mismatched grabbag of neon and animal print" is a perfectly cromulent Escher theme

[rose hill]

40k does NOT have suicidal murderous rat creatures and that makes it inherently worse than it could be

[finite compass]

Specifically Old World for me. I like some of the AoS models and a lot of the lore but as a whole, it just personally feels like...IDK

It lacks verisimilitude

[main pagoda]

hey we have savlar chem dogs

[finite compass]

No, 40k has the Imperium. >_>

[rose hill]

yes the imperium are the closest thing to the skaven

this is true

[finite compass]

Did you ever read the old Bill King Gotrek and Felix books

[main pagoda]

I understand why they did what they did with OW but cant help but feel annoyed they killed off some of the main factions or well made them not mainline

[rose hill]

however it's not as funny if it's not a 4 foot tall rat cackling and toasting his own foot off by accident

(yes I do prefer Guard and Mechanicus, why did you ask)

[finite compass]

Literally everything involving Thanquol is hilarious

And peak Skaven

Thanquol paced. The plan was not going well. Surely, thought Thanquol, he was the most potent of mage-rats, the most exalted of the Council's agents. Why, then, did the Lords of Decay keep sending him inferiors to work with? Warlord Skrich of Clan Krik had jeopardised the task of destroying Citadelle La Bouef. True, Thanquol had promised the drawbridges would be down, but that had been the fault of those worthless Gutter Runners. Yes, the poison Thanquol had bought for them turned out to be so watered down as to be safely drinkable, but he had saved many warptokens. Thanquol gnawed his pale, rubbery tail, recalling how the Duke had counter-attacked, sending the Clanrats fleeing. The fool Assassin should have already slain that manling! Of course, Thanquol had reassigned the Assassin to kill several upstart Skaven in his own ranks, a mission from which the Clan Eshin agent had never returned. Such failures could only be devious sabotage! But who, thought Thanquol, would dare match wits with so mighty a personage as himself? The hidden foe must be dangerous indeed.

[main pagoda]

thanquol is the goat of scooby doo villain lines

[sweet solar]

oh also @vital barn i saw it come up earlier but dont know if it went anywhere, i would love to play new adeptus titanicus over tabletop sim sometime if i am free, though i would need to learn

[finite compass]

Also the bit in one of the later books where he actually captures the protagonists

Launches into this whole "Now you will pay for foiling my schemes" dramatic speech

[rose hill]

they have no idea who he is

[finite compass]

And sort of trails off when he realizes they have no idea who he is

[rose hill]

yeah

because they've been bungling through ruining them by functionally, collateral damage

[finite compass]

the people they got to write the books after King stopped really don't have the same tone

Which is a shame

[main pagoda]

the AoS ones are quite good

no felix but gotrek going "no this shit is cringe piss off" is quite funny

[rose hill]

without felix it's not fun though

the original Gotrek and Felix are good because they're borderline farce

nobody scores

ever

Gotrek doesn't get to die, whatever thing Felix wants to do is always ruined, and their enemies are foiled almost by accident as they crash through the plot axe first

[finite compass]

THat's a running theme

[rose hill]

just Gotrek lacks the "relatively normal person's life is ruined" element

[finite compass]

The big bad of the novel almost always thinks the protgonists know of their scheme and are there to stop them

When they typically just literally stumbled into something and axed a bunch of stuff because Gotrek

And then wandered off to get drunk

[remote wharf]

Gotrek doesn't so much foil plans, he more happens to them.

[uneven ember]

was he also the one who was almost killed by an exploding skaven telephone
and he was like "he tried to kill me! ...no, no, I'm being paranoid, this was probably a normal exploding telephone"
and then it switches to the skaven he was talking to going "damn! that telephone explosion was supposed to kill him!"

[finite compass]

Yes

The implication being that Skaven technology is so hilariously unstable that even Thanquol doesn't see a catastrophic explosion as anything suspicious or out of the ordinary

Also the Council of 13 sending an underling to supervise Thanquol

Who then mysteriously dies en-route in a 'tragic accident involving a loaded crossbow and an exploding donkey'

[remote wharf]

A moment where his paranoia would have been justified only for him to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt and the better of it. Peak, simply peak.

[finite compass]

My favorite bit in that book though

Is the Stormvermin leader who runs into Gotrek and Felix

Who has an internal monologue like

[rose hill]

my one complaint in vermintide is that imo every skaven special enemy should have a small but constantly present chance to just explode themselves

[finite compass]

"They've gone insane with fear. Look, they're running at us screaming. Their brains must have broken."

[rose hill]

it's required for verisimulitude

[finite compass]

"In their frenzied panic they've managed to kill a bunch of my men. That was lucky."

"Obviously I should jump into the sewer and report back to my superiors that we've been discovered. I'm sure the rest can handle this."

In the actual wargame at least

I remember the misfire tables for Skaven weapons being hilarious

Like standard misfire for an artillery piece or war machine is like

[vital barn]

I never played very much myself, I just remember it being a clean ruleset and was refamiliarising myself with the game this morning. I'll see when I have some free time upcoming.

[finite compass]

"Miss next turn because powder didn't go off. Projectile exploded in midair and did no damage. If you're very unlucky it explodes in the cannon barrel and remove the artillery piece"

The Skaven ones are like

[uneven ember]

the great thing about the Skaven is that "the person you're talking to on the phone is trying to murder you" and "your phone just exploded for no particular reason" are both entirely plausible

[finite compass]

"The barrel catches fire and the crew runs in panic 3d6 in a random direction, then explodes with the large blast template over the gun team, hitting everything underneath it at strength 10"

The Warp Lightning Cannon had one where it started spinning wildly

[past sphinx]

the question is, is Skitter better or worse than X

[finite compass]

Aimed in a random direction

And then fired a full range full strength shot in whatever that direction was

Then exploded

[finite compass]

three words

Skavenslave Troll Farm

[rose hill]

like I get why they didn't give ratling guns a random chance to explode and spray warp bullets in every direction

it would be kind of a pisser from a gameplay perspective

but I wish there was a way to have that as an option, you know

[sweet solar]

hell yeah, i have this week then the next two weeks with more free time than normal

JESUS CHRIST WHY IS TITANDEATH £150

games workshop print your fucking books challenge

[main pagoda]

the novel or the rule book?

[sweet solar]

the novel

the rulebook is only like £15

[main pagoda]

oh yeah limited run moment

[uneven ember]

see, this is game design right here

[sweet solar]

blehhhhhhhhhh

[past sphinx]

black library books are in like a weird collectable category

[charred bridge]

I love Skaven and how every single one of them thinks theyre the main characters

[sweet solar]

but yeah i wanna play some adeptus titanicus both because it looks cool and fun, because i nearly started building an irl force to fight friends before i kind of fell out of being irl social for the last two years, and because i have an idea scratching at the back of my mind for a titan legion themed non 40k sci fi story i can best describe as titan legion + locked tombe trilogy + david webers in fury born + this memehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbOjPLyIg44

[uneven ember]

I love DEldar for the same reason

every one of them is looking at the ruins of an empire that used to dominate the galaxy with a thought and a society built on the immiseration and deprivation of the overwhelming majority of its members and going "couldn't be me"

[charred bridge]

That meme that's a train full of people with the same thought bubble "I'm built different"

[vital barn]

someone animated this in an unreasonably high-detail way https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1k1iw9x/welcome_to_the_knight_cafe/

[charred bridge]

Which tbf your entire race basically being anhilated due to depravity then going 1000% more depraved and it it someone staves your soul from being eaten would be an ego boost

"reason Eldar fell was because we weren't depraved enough"

Skill issue

[sweet solar]

lmao

[uneven ember]

watching the Fall and going "okay so, first of all, I'm not gonna learn a lesson from any of this"

also love that Vect is, like, the DEldar version of a Horatio Alger rags to riches narrative
he went from nothing to everything with nothing but hope, a can-do attitude, and an unparalleled skill at murder and betrayal

[charred bridge]

Also incredible luck anything worked out

Also being murdered once* but he got better

[uneven ember]

being murdered isn't really an obstacle for DEldar anyway

not ones that have any connections, at least

[sweet solar]

"skill issue, watch this you filthy casual" parries slanesh

[charred bridge]

Did they ever explain how that worked

The tortures other keeps slaanesh away

[uneven ember]

I don't think it's keeping Slaanesh away
more that they're psychic vampires, and sucking up agony lets them replenish the soul that Slaanesh is steadily sucking out of them

[sour sequoia]

Its psyker stuff to rejuvenate their soul, yeah

[charred bridge]

Oh I see

So it's like a reverse leaky boat with a bucket but you want it filled with water and the bucket is suffering

[uneven ember]

yeah exactly
and for all they hate Slaanesh they're ultimately just working overtime to fill up on soul-stuff for The Who Thirsts to drink up

which I'm sure the Dark Prince finds appropriately hilarious

[gray basalt]

Oh hey, yea deldar rock

Especially the hemonculus covens

[charred bridge]

If there's one faction that'll definitely never "win" 40k, it's the Drukhari

[paper bluff]

This reminded me the space maids codex maker released it for free

https://www.patreon.com/login?ru=%2Fposts%2Fspace-maids-137677552%3Fimmediate_pledge_flow%3Dtrue%26post_tier_unavailable%3Dtrue

[rocky shale]

I wish the codex was more balanced to where I wouldn't feel bad about playing it...

[rocky shale]

Fulgrim is the only hetero space marine is my new headcanon

[charred bridge]

No he's fulgrimsexual, he'd never stoop down to love another that isn't perfect like he is

[floral herald]

Fulgrim being the solitary straight space marine would be funny

[sweet solar]

also they are just hiding out side of the universe in commoraghs webway pocket dimension, being as immortal as possible and like imprisoning their own souls somtimes/

[charred bridge]

Ah yes I remember the time nids got in and they just captured a hive fleet now for fashion farming

[upper canopy]

iirc he did have like, a dozen wives

[desert jay]

IIRC a few other Primarchs were het married

[charred bridge]

Need a proxy 40k army necron like this https://www.rxddit.com/r/Necrontyr/s/n6N7rJQoTL

Just needs some paint

[snow shuttle]

Nmm

[pale narwhal]

I’ve worked with some iridescent paints before. Don’t necessarily need an airbrush, I used mine without to get a nice bluish-iridescent carapace for a tervigon I painted for a friend without much trouble at all

[radiant lotus]

time to cope and test out quins

[main pagoda]

I've been using quins in my crusade and they are imho really really good

[pine matrix]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/r1q1vbov/let-us-speak-of-hashut-the-father-of-darkness/
Pretty sick Hashut lore

[upper bluff]

Harlequins are awesome

I love the ninja clowns

[rocky shale]

You can also run harlequins in drukhari with the reapers wager detachment that's actually fairly good

[hollow laurel]

How're T'au in 10e, and are Fire Warriors with vehicle backup viable?

[floral herald]

Like competitively or what?

They’re… fine competitively

I’m not sure what the meta for em is but breachers and tanks are popular iirc

[hollow laurel]

Like just, are they in a good place.

[floral herald]

Yeah they’re fine

Most of the game is atm it’s like knights and death guard and stodes are kind of busted and grey knights deathwatch and imperial agents suck

And if you’re not one of those six you’re probably ok

[hollow laurel]

Looking at Votann, and ooh Yaegirs.

They remind me of Krieg Engineers.

[floral herald]

Votann are… I think people are working out how to use their new stuff?

They just got their codex and they’re struggle a little statistically but I don’t think that’s a sign of weakness

[hollow laurel]

You will quickly learn this about me: I like me Krieg.

[paper bluff]

How tough are armorjacks? Cause they look like they could be used like staggitatum custodes

[brittle salmon]

Deathwatch are still really quite good actually, there's a guy that's been quietly picking up tournaments with them for quite a while

Indomitor Kill Teams are fucking yolked

[floral herald]

Stat check has em very low still but maybe people are just playing them wrong

[brittle salmon]

I'd bet

[floral herald]

Agents are out of the doghouse though that’s fire sure

(Normal disclaimer, this doesn’t really matter unless you’re planning for tournament play)

[hollow laurel]

I'm mostly used to 9e, but I am sorta wondering about getting into 10e with you folks, and er. I wonder if this army maps over well-enough.

I don't wanna export it because it'll be a big block of text. ><

[tepid stratus]

How are agents so high up?

[rocky shale]

They probably have like 2tournaments

[tepid stratus]

Fair

[soft willow]

One good player playing a tournament or two yeah.

New Votann book is good, but requires playing differently than before.

[tepid stratus]

My poor EC be struggling

[rocky shale]

Agents are dogshit but nobody knows how to play against them and the only people who take them competetively are insanely practiced

[soft willow]

From what I see on the LoV communites a lot of people are still trying to make the old way work.

[soft willow]

Goonhammer thinks they might spring back if Knights stop being the mega threat.

[tepid stratus]

We could also spring back if we had a second shooting option

[soft willow]

Yeah I wasn't real clear on why EC only get Maulerfiends.

[tepid stratus]

Because noise marines are just gonna keep suffering otherwise

[soft willow]

Sorta makes sense for them to have Forgefiends too.

[vital barn]

the Demons list is out for Horus Heresy

[tepid stratus]

Bring back dominators

[vital barn]

it's a bit of a placeholder, clearly a faction mostly intended as an allied det, but they have some fun stuff

the greater demon HQs are hugely swole, they have both a primarch price and a primarch statline

not quite so good in a duel, but they have wings and they score really well with their semi-random Line rule while not giving up VP when killed

[floral herald]

I’m not sure but they have a very high win and presence rate

So it’s not just noise

(This is also a pretty big meta - ~13k games)

[vital barn]

ah

biologis hereteks can repair greater demons

this will be fun

[rocky shale]

Goonhammer has these numbers for games since may

[rocky shale]

If you hit the plus on agents you can see them at 0 event wins and 0% meta representation lol

Also only 2/5 detachments having statistics

[floral herald]

Maybe it’s a data entry thing haha

[vital barn]

So I did some maths here and I can run nearly 200 T5 wounds into the enemy frontline.
Can someone please call the 2.0 mech designer back the cogboys are scaring me
ALL WILL COWER UNDER THE DARK MECH HOG WRANGLERS

Live demon list reaction from the 30k group chat

[pulsar holly]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/cdfuejhk/who-are-the-helsmiths-of-hashut/

HASHUT! HASHUT! HASHUT!

[rocky shale]

Agents have potential to be pretty strong they just lack any meaningful way to kill hard targets outside reliably

If the new deathwatch kt reduces the number of hammers per 5 from 2 to 1 though they're even more screwed

[floral herald]

It probably will

Which is extra funny then cause they’re probably gonna run the meta in KT for a bit

[pine matrix]

I really like this art, the fortress could be beautiful if it wasn't for the smoke and bale fire

[rocky shale]

You're right but also pain, agony

[floral herald]

I think the sprue builds 5 and has 1 hammer

If it’s any consolation their hammer guy in kill team seems really fucked up strong

[pulsar holly]

Hashut blesses this fortress. What do you mean its not beautiful?

[rocky shale]

The current way you kill tanks is basically just having one squad with 4 hammers and a watch master to make violent acquisitions 1cp (normally 2) to give them lance and sus1

So you get like 12 swings hitting on 4+ (3+ if you eliminate at all costs too), rr1s or all hits against xenos, sus1, lance, dev wounds, S10 AP2 D3 for 305points and 1cp

Which still only wounds heavy tanks on 4s

Your only higher strength weapons in the whole army are a single twin lascannon on the corvus blackstar and rhino hunter killers

I love agents in concept so much just please give us some dork with a lascannon

OK lamenting time over

[paper bluff]

Is there no death watch dreadnaughts?

[upper bluff]

not on the tabletop

in agents i mean

[rocky shale]

Agents only gets dwkt, watch master, Artemis, and the corvus blackstar

In terms of deathwatch models

Similarly they only get Grey knight terminators, sisters squads, and immolators

[hollow laurel]

Looking at the fancy Guard detachments, I really like Bridgehead Strike.

[thin ibex]

its decently strong as an elite infantry focused guard one

do wish it synergized with valks better

[hollow laurel]

I wish we had Grenadiers though.

[rocky shale]

It was extremely strong and they had to nerf it lol

[floral herald]

lol

im dying

[desert jay]

GSC, IK, and Tsons in the top 5 of the meta? Are we back in 2023?

[sour sequoia]

GSC is moooostly happening because the standard host of ascension gameplan bodies knights

While death guard and then knights together kind of just deletes fast melee pressure from the meta, GSC and TSons natural predators

[hollow laurel]

"Natural predators"
😌

[desert jay]

This is also part of what gave index GSC an edge, being able to body early-index IK

[hollow laurel]

Wait, doesn't this mean the Guard thrives too?

Like, Guard is mostly slaughtered by fast melee, isn't it?

[desert jay]

Guard has less infiltrate and less respawns than GSC does

[mental birch]

Tau is fine

[pulsar holly]

I'm gonna have a hard time choosing between the Helmsmith of Hashut, and the Ossiarch Bonereapers, if I ever get started on AoS.

[hollow laurel]

Oh fair. But yeah, I'm Guard with T'au off.

[rocky shale]

Outside of CK double gat despoilers, knights struggle with having volume of fire so yeah

Makes sense

[hollow laurel]

Gosh, now I'm wanting to play against you folks. :V

Well, :V/:> mix.

[tardy vault]

They do seem thematically similar tho what little info we have on HoH they are going to have a very different mechanic than OBR.

I do suspect OBR is going to be easier to paint than HoH

[sour sequoia]

You ever seen 9 coterie by round 2

[sour sequoia]

And even on double gat despoilers, no overwatch + max 2-3 possible bodies carrying the loadout means host just drops neophytes and wipes em

Power of Host is usual GSC scoring + “If I drop a neophyte brick in range of a target, it dies. I don’t really care what it is”

[hollow laurel]

No, I don't play 10e and I haven't played 40k in a while.

Gyrtop #1 Geomancer Simp ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) You ever seen 9 coterie by round 2

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[sour sequoia]

When orks/drukhari/emperors children are good it gets very scary

For genestealers

[hollow laurel]

What do those all share in common? Melee.

Sorry, that was a question.

[sour sequoia]

fast melee, and rewards and powerups for plowing through trash

[mental birch]

I'm a retaliation tau player desperately trying to make crisis work

Lol

[sour sequoia]

Round 1 and 2 they kill my purestrains and bikes, maybe some acolytes

Round 3 the entire emperors children army is advance and charge, full hit rerolls, sustain hits + lethal hits & crit on 5+

[mental birch]

Well crisis and riptide

[hollow laurel]

Whereas I like the Guard's selection of Big Guns™.

Sadly, nobody else has that sorta firepower.

[rocky shale]

Knights

[hollow laurel]

..Touché.

[rocky shale]

Or like eldar who have guns that have statlines that make guard week but they're just on goofy little elf guns

[hollow laurel]

And the giant T'au suits. But they're all direct. Where's my artillery, which is what I had meant to say and failed to.

[main pagoda]

love me fire prism

[main pagoda]

closet i can say is eldar weapon platforms

[rocky shale]

Eldar actually have a lot of indirect, indirect is just kinda bad in 10th

[thin ibex]

Tau are mostly fine rn, a little weaker in the current meta; but their roster is generally all pretty useable

fire warriors/strike teams plus vehicles is a solid way to play them if you want, though not super competetive

they're not so much a gunline army these days because they dont want to get into slugging matches with other gunners

they're still pretty solid at choice removal

[hollow laurel]

Aww.

Turtle ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) Eldar actually have a lot of indirect, indirect is just kinda bad in 10th

So siege cannons bad too?

[thin ibex]

personally i wouldnt say bad, its just that indirect has a lot of limitations on it in order to access the ability to fire out of LoS

[rocky shale]

Seige cannons are some of the best if you can give them ignore cover

And +1 to hit orders

Still kinda only good for being chip damage

[thin ibex]

eh, i find having an indirect option accessible can be a great way to double down and finish a target or towork a back camper that you otherwise are struggling to reach

indirect is more useful as a multiplier rather than a sole damage dealer

Tau indirect has gotten nicer since the change to ftgg

and smart missiles are great for massaging down chaff infantry with relative impunity

most other sources of indirect are some level of over costed, but also tend to come with some kind of utility effect (forcing bshock tests, reducing movement, that kind of thing)

[rocky shale]

Yeah you aren't wiping units with it you're doing chip damage

Useful but not like the artillery spam power fantasy

[thin ibex]

#fire your indirect last to try and finish something off or to engage their special rule and they'll do alright in most cases, and of course you can also fire them not indirect for fewer negatives

i dont think they're super competetive, but a lot of different artilleries are plenty good casually

[rocky shale]

The other big aspect is indirect always have cover to worry about and usually have low AP already

[main pagoda]

the thing with eldar indirect mainly the nightspinner is you aren't trying to kill people you are just trying to cuck their movement

[thin ibex]

sadly da big missile isnt super good as much as i like it. I still wanna run it sometime tho

[rocky shale]

The night spinner gun is good it's just that you're also paying for a big tank chassis

And it was good at the start of the edition so it has to suck now

[thin ibex]

it prolly gets more worth if you can absorb some fire with it, but that makes a competing incentive tree a bit

[rocky shale]

Yeah it defeats the point of indirect

[thin ibex]

mighty basilisk tank shock strats

[rocky shale]

And makes it just overcosted

[thin ibex]

i do plan on fielding a deathstrike next time i get the chance

just because its such a silly thing

[hollow laurel]

I waw thinking pairing them with Combat Engineers.

[rocky shale]

I've seen people use the artillery teams with creed standing between 3 of them to give them all +1 to hit orders

Because having them hit on 5+ is painful

And then you use the siege detachment to use flares to remove cover against things then shoot with indirect

[thin ibex]

gotta roll all tiers of arty, with a mortar team, an artillery team, a basilisk, and a deathstrike

[hollow laurel]

This detachment runs Recon for the permacover.

Turtle ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161696278640594954 message) And then you use the siege detachment to use flares to remove cover against things then shoot with i…

Actually, Heavy Lascannons would do work in fending off Big Shit™, right?

[rocky shale]

Heavy weapons teams not so much because they die so quick

[thin ibex]

they CAN but they are fragile, if you can manufacture them shooting before dying, they can absolutely do work

or if youhave competing meaningful targets

[rocky shale]

It's tough because they have heavy

So you don't want them to jump out to shoot

But if they sit in the open they die to the thing they want to kill

[hollow laurel]

No no, Ordnance Teams.

[rocky shale]

Same issue pretty much

Only slightly tougher

They get sus1 and +1 (+2 if you also use the right order) to hit if they don't move and have orders so you really don't want them to move

4 shots at 5+ is rough

[thin ibex]

if you can help it you A want to outrange your target or B have the target move into your line of fire and not kill that unit specifically

[rocky shale]

Oh oof 3" move

I've only ever seen these used as indirect

[hollow laurel]

So, get a tank destroyer?

[rocky shale]

For the most part guard kills tanks with tanks, yeah

The seige cannons can also be OK into light tanks

And to a lesser extent infantry with infantry

Some of the horses with melta lances can do work too

[thin ibex]

combat engineers can lay some hurt into armor too

[sour sequoia]

Melta lance horses fuck immensely tbh

[rocky shale]

Remote mine isn't all that much

I guess grenades + remote mine is potentially a good spike of mortals for 70pts

The fact that mine can whiff is rough

Rough riders are fun

[thin ibex]

yeah the combo is grenades + remote mine to get a fairly cheap mortal spike

[sour sequoia]

Do the engineers get the 0cp grenades

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[thin ibex]

yeah

[rocky shale]

You can't double up grenades strat tho

So spamming engineers is hard

Also 70pts for that is rough

[sour sequoia]

They’re also 5 bodies, idk

[thin ibex]

its not too bad tbh, 70 points for potential for quite a lot of damage. It's not like they're gonna be the only thing you bring

[sour sequoia]

The reductus saboteur is fuckin superb at 65 for “show up, reaction mortal a vehicle/monster, grenade it, throw a demo charge/do a Recover Assets or Sabotage or Establish Locus and then die”

[thin ibex]

i belive the standard combat engi combo is have them in a chimera till they gotta grenade the shit out of something

[sour sequoia]

Honestly? That works

Mine -> grenades -> tank shock and jam a real tank

You’ve punched up a lot and then the engineers just run off and Do The Mission

The moment you add another source of mortals and maybe 1-2 autocannon size guns you’re picking up tanks for efficient prices. GSC does it with bike driveby mortals

Side benefit, speaking from experience, learning how to properly play with your trash unlocks the funniest salt mines

[thin ibex]

its also a suprisingly good way to erase annoying monsters or like... pirmarchs or elite infantry

ppl fighting guard usually expect you to be really reliant on armor to answer armor, so having a surprise combo to mortal wound something down is nice

or if youre doing like infantry centric theme builds

[sour sequoia]

Praetor FurtStankimus, Herald of the Death Guard, Killer of Worlds, 12 wounds at T12 and Lone Op, 2+/4++/5+ Feel No Pain dying to approx. 10 conscripted idiots with bricks of semtex

And a bus

[rocky shale]

Reductus does way more than engineers for thatrole

Has deep strike, infiltrators, lone op, stealth, indirect fire, and the mine doesn't need LoS and hits harder

The engineers have 2 more wounds and +1 save but no invuln no stealth no lone op no indirect and no deployment shenanigans

Engis were pretty good at release when they were like 50pts

Now they cost more than 10 kreigsmen

[mental birch]

Tau are a movement army that happens to have decent guns

[thin ibex]

Yup definitely a shooting army just not a gunline/ trade army

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/2OcmwVCF2C

A comment pointed out the Tau is trans based on the nasal slit.

[junior summit]

I thought both tau have the forehead slit?

oh the y shape

[desert jay]

Yeah

[junior summit]

uhhhh I think the other female tau had the vertical slit

the tau dissection one

[desert jay]

The latter is from Xenology which is old fucking lore

And also like... AIUI Xenology says a lot of shit that gets ignored

[floral herald]

The Xenology tau has a forehead crystal

[junior summit]

fair

[floral herald]

It's also a weird ethereal thing

[untold swallow]

I have decided to make the Dornian Heresy but with hair on its chest

i.e. the Lion is the archtraitor and more than two Primarchs die cuz fuckit

Answers to such questions as "Who's the Nurgle legion?" can be answered with "The Salamanders, very technically. They're all dead, except Vulkan, who serves as an embodiment of life, death and rebirth, constantly fighting, in the center of Nurgle's Garden, for all time."

[mental birch]

Oh!

[untold swallow]

Ferrus dying and signalling the conflict is serious has been replaced by Sanguinius dying

By Dorn's hand

As he falls to Khorne

[mental birch]

The Imperial Knight is nonsense

Beautiful nonsense

[rocky shale]

The new one?

[mental birch]

The armiger spam detachment

[rocky shale]

The rules nightmare of a new knight

[mental birch]

Just saw the sure just put 3 armigers into reserves why not

[untold swallow]

The Blood Angels are the Slaaneshi legion without Sanguinius present to moderate them

[rocky shale]

The new knight gives cover and 4++ to other knights as long as it partially blocks line of sight between it and the shooting unit

Which means..

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1013864414706941983/1413342543055425616/Screenshot_20250904-215653.Chrome2.png?ex=68bb9550&is=68ba43d0&hm=a79cc55b6191055cca7d27a1860378027141520306801bbbd783fc162a55e635&

This porphy has cover and 4++ invuln

[mental birch]

The porphy is his son

[rocky shale]

He said no pickles

[untold swallow]

The Space Wolves are Tzeentchian cuz fuck you (and also cuz the idea of Tzeentch pulling Russ into a vision quest during the Burning of Prospero and having him eat the Crimson King's heart sounds fun, and also the Space Wolves are the most mutation-focused legion fight me)

[pale narwhal]

It’s… kinda obscene that there’s a bunch of strats that target up to 3 knights

Idk any other army that can target 1000+ points of their units with a single strat

[mental birch]

Huh? Only like 450 ponys

The 3 armigers rely on bondsman chaining

[rocky shale]

I saw at least one strat which was like "3 knights all within 9" of a point on the board"

[pale narwhal]

yep

[mental birch]

Oh missed thst detachment

[rocky shale]

The IK codex is proof that CK sells models because theyre cool and IK sells models by being better than CK

[pale narwhal]

Which given their base size and how it’s not ‘wholly within’ means you’ve got 18” of wiggle room to get a mm of your large base in

To benefit

[rocky shale]

My only respite is knowing that Canix Rex got nerfed

[pale narwhal]

His 5+ crits is just a stratagem in a detachment now

Well. ‘Just’

[rocky shale]

Ill take it lol

At least he wont be used in other armies as much

[pale narwhal]

I’m imagining the balance slate comes out and then a week later knights skyrocket back to having a toptier winrate

Tbh

[soft willow]

lol ignores cover sus1 AP-2 Helverins are coming in the Armiger detachment.

But yeah I expect points increases on Knights

[pale narwhal]

That can give out -1 to hit to stuff they shoot

[soft willow]

If it’s still there.

No anti-fly but eh Str9 is pretty good already

[rocky shale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1013864414706941983/1413378324285095946/Screenshot_20250905-001656_Samsung_Internet.jpg?ex=68bbb6a3&is=68ba6523&hm=279cbbbdcda459663aeb01350c1364971995ec02e6ecb5482ea1522e78f8165e&

Wait wait

RAW if you have one model that cant see the thing your unit is shooting at due to not having LoS for reasons OTHER THAN THE DEFENDER (i.e. terrain) then the defender doesn't give the 4++

[south axle]

You mean like you have a 10 man unit, guys 1-8 sees the knight fully, guy 9 is blocked by defender, and guy 10 is blocked by hill then no 4++? Or same scenario but guy 9 isn't blocked?

[south axle]

I see it as it would still get the bonus as the statement is still true thanks to the far right guy in your picture, no?

[rocky shale]

It says that the target has to be not fully visible to every model in the shooting unit because of the knight defender model. So if the target is not fully visible to every model in the shooting unit because of wall then the criteria wouldnt be met.

I would expect this to get FAQ'd/errata'd

[south axle]

I could see a FAQ to clear it up a bit. I read it more as does the Defender block a non-zero amount of LOS, if yes then bonus. So in the wall scenario it would be non-zero cause of wall, and non-zero because defender which will satisfy the trigger for bonus

[rocky shale]

That's definitely how it's intended to play.

[junior summit]

No it's still not fully visible to the other four

Err

Oh yeah thats bad wording

should be any

[radiant lotus]

im trying to tune my quins list (ghosts of the webway), thoughts on warlock conclave?

im running 2 4 mans in falcons +eldrad and a farseer

[tranquil ivy]

just bought these toso bits

and they threw in some freebies that were "Imperfect Prints"

[thin ibex]

Are there any imperial fist successor chapters that we know went traitor? The soul drinkers went renegade right?

[floral herald]

Looking at the list of successors and lol they aren’t sure though

[junior robin]

they where originally called "nights of gore" but the inquisition felt that gave away to much of their origin

[floral herald]

Also I was glancing through this and only found renegades which is a little interesting

[still warren]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bbon9z5v/the-helsmiths-of-hashut-harness-the-power-of-caged-daemons-for-a-boost-on-the-battlefield/

Btfo chaff

[remote wharf]

I wanna share a very funny story. Early into my history I made my foray into writhing up a custom chapter. They where an Ultramarines successors, and had silver armor, blue helmets and pauldrons, with gold trims. But then I discovered the Iron Ravens.

[untold swallow]

Wondering what to name the Khornate Black Templars in my Heresy AU...

[quaint compass]

Black Templars

[untold swallow]

lol

I decided to just say they're Templars, since in this timeline they don't split from the Fists

The Fists are this AU's Khornate traitor legion, and embody Khorne as dispassionate war criminals, spilling blood and stacking skulls with diligence and precision

Sigismund and his Templars are the exception, the blood-red vanguard of a Fists assault

[tardy vault]

Unsurprisingly, very heavy castle focus. Also, those warmachines look nasty in melee if you really buff them. 7 attacks at 3+ 2+ 2 rend 4 damage crit mortals

[remote wharf]

The Bloodstained Templars

[rocky shale]

The reddish black templars

[paper bluff]

Paladins of Blood

[pulsar holly]

A LAMMASU HAS BEEN SPOTTED

[untold swallow]

I'm so far just keeping them as 'The Templars' i.e. Dorn's honor guard turned vanguard

[rocky shale]

Saw this in another discord. T1 imperial knights picking the +2" move army rule and the "everything gets assault and advance rerolls" detachment

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/961641657437155328/1413469031125614762/aOdToBUh.jpg?ex=68bc0b1e&is=68bab99e&hm=b9dfbe4ce44ea91edab41dc7d967a5d33fa29061f070ca6a3cd3058977cc1503&

With average (3")advances

T1 line of sight to basically everything

[rocky shale]

People actually bought that to play and not just for the models?

[remote wharf]

The fact that that existed at all is so funny to me. "Boss we should make a plastic gateway for dawn of war's anniversary." "Throw in a sprue that isn't selling well cause it was in every combo box last edition and is all over ebay, sell it for 50 bucks, and throw some basic rules." "You got it boss!"

[thin ibex]

how have chaos knights been post dex? Ive just looked at their detaches for the first time

the supercharge detach seems good

[untold swallow]

Oh yeah doesn't Dawn of War have just

fully cast models of what came in the Leviathan box that isn't sold in any other format?

or sorry Indomitus

Holy shit wait they're sprues?

Why the fuck would anyone buy Honoured of the Chapter when this exists lmao

[rocky shale]

Very good and still OK post nerfs

Infernal lance being the clear mvp

CK players are just eternally salty because GW loves IK more

[sour sequoia]

Most lists post nerf basically dropped a war dog

The heinous objective control tricks still work

[floral herald]

Huh

Tom Clancy’s trans daughter plays warhammer and won a painting award with a Maryland themed knight list

[vital barn]

I did not realise that was Maryland colours rather than just Average Knight House

I'm getting a bad grade in Americology

the assassins do not seem to be from Maryland, though

[floral herald]

No they’re probably from Delaware

Maryland flag for context (and any excuse to post it)

It helps that it’s probably one of the most 40K like US state flags with the checkers and such

[hollow laurel]

I love this theming.

CYAN [he/him] ↩️

[(click to see attachment)](#1161696278640594954 message)

[jaunty dawn]

yeah if I was marylander and started knight i would do that

[hollow laurel]

Also, you know, the Guard doesn't really have any real tank destroyers anymore. They have AT guns, and they have Leman Russ Vanquishers, but.. No TDs.

[jaunty dawn]

they do they're just...over there

[vital barn]

no more Destroyer Tank Hunter?

[hollow laurel]

No. And my beautiful Mecharius is gone it seems too. 😭

[vital barn]

obviously the Valdor is in the barely-works-at-this-point pile along with the rest of the Malcador variants but it's also a solid ~200pt tank destroyer

[hollow laurel]

I don't count Legends because that means it's on the chopping block.

[vital barn]

(in Heresy, where it actually gets to do stuff)

[hollow laurel]

Okay. No, I.. The Guard does have a TD option though actually. It's just. Weird.

That would be the Sentinel.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean that's only as heavily armed as every other vehicle in the army's auxiliary weapons

[rocky shale]

6 lascannon sentinels is hilarious

Theyre dirt cheap with horrible accuracy

And hunter killer missiles with equally bad accuracy

[remote wharf]

Makes sense. One of the guards defining traits is accuracy by volume of fire.

[rocky shale]

But yeah guard doesn't really have lightly armored tanks

Leman russ vanquishers or demolishers do the job of killing tanks just fine

[vital barn]

yet another thing they left behind in 30k

the Valdor is a solid heavy tank destroyer and the Carnodon is basically a guardified predator for fast medium tank action

[rocky shale]

Or dorns

Leman trusses are already sub-200 points, I don't know how much cheaper you would even make a like 3+ save/T9? tank destroyer

[vital barn]

this thing, probably

it basically has the gun from a space marine Sicaran Venator, but it replaces the overload-enemy-systems effect with explode-own-tank-on-snake-eyes because it's so cheap and cheerful

bargain for the price, at least

[hollow laurel]

Yeah, I want a thing that.. It's a Destroyer Tank Hunter, but we welded a Vanquisher to it instead.

[junior summit]

Isn't the shadowsword technically still legal?

[rocky shale]

Yes

It's just a baneblade chassis

So not exactly the platonic ideal of a tank destroyer

[dense sedge]

A coworker of mine shared a story about getting on gw’s bad side as a kid after sending them a letter giving them his product ideas before threatening them and getting his address banned for sending things to, leading to future orc or ork codex referencing a ‘Kevin’ who couldn’t stop the orcs. Trying to find some sources to verify if this is a tall tale or not, anyone here know of such a mention?

[gray basalt]

The only Kevin I know is Kevin Roundtree (CEO of GW) who I am willing to fight with my bare hands

There seems to be a meme of sorts called Kevin the Kroot hound but I'm just hearing of it today also it's roots are not tied to a kid getting banned

[remote wharf]

There's Kevin "Kev" Walker too, an artist who worked on a few old gw things, who's currently working for marvel.

[mild glen]

Hey, gang.
So, for my next Crisis Commander, we have settled on the idea of a Khorne Berserker getting its shit absolutely rocked from some Plasma Rifle shots.
Anyone know if there's any good depictions of a T'au plasma rifle's projectile out there? And/or the damage it does to a "human" body?

[floral herald]

Tau plasma gun shots are often drawn as beams and the effect on target is similar to imperial plasma weapons - targets are melted or turned to ash or explode

[mild glen]

Thank you.

This is going to look either awesome or absolutly awful.

[thin ibex]

what feels right for an astra militarum raiding force? Recon Element or Mechanized Assault?

[remote wharf]

I want to say as a half joke option to put a pair of burnt/half melted Berserker legs on the base in front of the plasma gun.

[thin ibex]

my mental image is a beam, with burned/crater'd hole punched through the target

molten slag around the edges, white hot around the center

[uneven ember]

God, I love this thing
most of the east coast is just "blue flag, boring seal, Latin motto" and then there's this

[radiant lotus]

how crazy am I for wanting to repaint 1000 points of salamanders into their RT look?

undusted my old salamanders army

[west zealot]

Yes, yes you are

Even though it's cool as hell

[mental birch]

I'm very silly looking at sticking 6 bladeguards and khan in a landraided

Why typo

Lance, reroll 1 to hit

[tranquil ivy]

I DID NOT PAY FOR THESE BUT I'LL TAKE FREE SHIT

i DID buy these tho

[tardy vault]

First GT today. Wish me luck I'm going to need it.

[floral herald]

Good luck!

[tardy vault]

Play the current best army but with the wrong list.

[silk verge]

making a black templar guy for a friend and wanted to dip into my 2004 bits

SPACE MARINE MAN

[floral herald]

https://youtu.be/slxi5_IukZs

These Deathwatch guys are ass beaters holy shit

(It's a good match but unsurprisingly the 5 killy as hell guys beat the technical planning team when neither player is that familiar)

[desert jay]

Tomb Lord still groggy and waking up from a long nap

[thin ibex]

being silly

[tired cairn]

Deathwatch player is a coward for not taking the man with the literal Warhammer

[tardy vault]

First game over in under an hour. Played against an SCE deep strike alpha strike list. Dived Shadow Queen turn one and killed the keystone hero. On his turn killed his dragon with SQ and Celestiant Prime with a cauldron. Top of round 2 got the full buff stack off on some snakes to wipe the only scary unit left. He conceded top of round 3. Ending score was 78-29.

Tldr: two alpha strike lists entered. I got first turn. GG

Mindrazor Shadow Queen is fucking terrifying

[remote wharf]

Practically the holotype of a space marine.

The most marine to ever space even.

[cinder wraith]

went to a tournament today

won 3rd place

https://tenor.com/view/yeahhhh-rumi-mira-zoey-kpop-demon-hunters-gif-11508471156771090103

[jaunty dawn]

woooo

grats!!!

[tardy vault]

https://tenor.com/view/snakes-on-a-plane-samuel-l-jackson-mother-fucker-plane-snakes-gif-7197331

👆 KO players

I should note I got the double

[mental birch]

Rip the tome removed the funny redeploy meme

Where you can force q charge range of 9+d6

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/cubicle7games.bsky.social/post/3ly6hfc6lad2w

Cubicle 7 Games (@cubicle7games.bsky.social)

⚔️ Coming Soon! Warhammer Age of Sigmar Roleplay: Soulbound, Champions of Chaos!

#Soulbound #AgeOfSigmar #ChampionsofChaos #warhammer #Cubicle7 #ttrpg

▶ Play video

Bluesky · Sep 6, 2025, 3:09 PM

[charred bridge]

Most logical 40k gun

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/1pFf5NfYE5

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1414025816035299338/543105747_10172824876430037_6523482347669850610_n.png?ex=68be11a9&is=68bcc029&hm=18a21d7787398b4d55b2496d754081cc9a0567aa5c51d7f07a15efcb397d3f46&

[sour sequoia]

SIXTY THREE GAMES TILL IM GOOD WITH GSC

BUT WE BROKE 50% WR BABEY

[desert jay]

Do you notice a better WR in recent games than older games?

[sour sequoia]

I’m a little bit stuck rn in terms of skill so I’m trying to jam a lot of GTs and get into the fellas who play at higher tables at worlds & LVO so I’m not just knowledge checking people

But its definitely been “what is going on what is going on nothing in my army does jack shit please help” for abt 25 games and then I got enough of a handle to get the combos and now I get to do the funny

[desert jay]

Ah so also playing harder games. In that case, congrats on holding 51%

Where are you on the spectrum of "I got models I thought were cool" to "I got what I got" to a tightly optimized list?

[sour sequoia]

So a lot of my wins are sorted by pregame questions currently?

A) I’ve never seen GSC before (LMAOOOO)
B) Oh that’s so cool I never see people play GSC I heard they’re hard (in 45 minutes you’re gonna be hearing Fortunate Son)
C) yeah yeah I know they deep strike and shoot (I get to scare the piss outta someone again still but I’ll probably lose my trash)
D) “how many neophyte squads you got and what are your ridgerunner loadouts” (I am doomed)

[sour sequoia]

I think I’m pretty tightly optimized tbh? I have to take a funny diversion from whats Most Meta because Montana/Northern Rockies is bizarre and has So Many World Eaters/Blood Angels

So instead of highest scoring trash possible and double reductus like Floof runs, I play a brick of metamorphs+biophagus+truck

I’m playing around with the last 200pts of my list and not much more basically

[desert jay]

Optimizing for your local scene is legit if doing real tourney stuff

[sour sequoia]

Also we just. Have the best DA player in the western hemisphere in my town. Running me down with Company of Hunters every week and I’m trying desperately to find how to purchase midboard real estate

[desert jay]

There's no sideboarding in GTs, right? You gotta bring what you bring?

[sour sequoia]

Montana scene is full of freaks we’re clocking 5 of the top 100 NA players in a region that has like, 100k people

[sour sequoia]

Yup exactly. GSC’s funny cuz the range is actually still really tight

So a lot of lists always have the same tools but its questions of density & strat support to make some given unit the stars of the list

[desert jay]

You do sound like you know your stuff here, which means it's just the nitty gritty of putting it to practice left

[tardy vault]

Ah yes the unpopular faction special. Running into it a ton at the GT I'm at for AoS. It's generally pretty obvious if the person I'm playing against actually knows what DoK is like by their positioning.

[sour sequoia]

I have literally the least played army across either game now that beastmen got squatted from AoS lmao

[tardy vault]

Are they keeping a good 18" away with everything even remotely important? Or are they lining up trying to screen me out and hit me with hammers while I'm stuck (lol lmao good one)

[tardy vault]

DoK is like, crazy good right now and still is bottom three play rate or something.

They're down there with GSC

[pale narwhal]

GSC seem really funny to play tbh

I’m tempted but also my beloved space sharks are still a WIP and need more units

[tardy vault]

The issue I've always heard with GSC is they're super expensive (especially now that the old Combat Patrol is gone) and the second worst faction to paint in all of Warhammer

[floral herald]

Who's in first by that count haha

[tardy vault]

Lumineth Realm Lords

imagine GSC levels complexity

but you can't hide it with dirt

they're high elves so everything has to be clean

[floral herald]

Do you need 1 fucktillion guys?

[tardy vault]

No, and that's their saving grace

but like, have you seen the trim on the cows?

[pale narwhal]

I’ve painted a few gsc before (kitbashed as secondline skitarii) so I know what I’d be getting into

[floral herald]

Is the filigree raised or studio paint job?

[tardy vault]

Recessed

[floral herald]

Oh that's not so bad

It's still a lot but it's a lot easier to leave in recesses ime

[pale narwhal]

Yeah just panel liner it tbh

Get some proper stuff from tamiya

[desert jay]

AdMech are up there too, still up there in model count even after the recent de-hording, expensive boxes, lots of little gribbly bits

[tardy vault]

oh, if we're talking expense 40k has AoS beat

40k armies are obscenely large compared to AoS

and AoS superheavies are, like, actually good

[desert jay]

I mean this started in a convo on GSC

[pale narwhal]

Yeah admech has similarly greebly infantry and yeah. My admech collection went from about 1.2k in 8e, to like. 800pts in 10e

[tardy vault]

I think admech was flirting with sub 1 point per dollar there a second?

[desert jay]

Some lists can get there

[tardy vault]

but it sounds like they fixed that

[floral herald]

Only on some of the walkers but they did hit it

[desert jay]

(It's not even a bad skew list to play)

Poorhammer did a "most expensive possible list" in one of their meme lists episodes and it just looks like a normal walker-heavy list at first

[tardy vault]

yeah I remember that

the slowly dawning horror as the prices started getting read

[sour sequoia]

Pick a detach and build for it and its Fine, honestly. Buying a playset of everything is 3rd most expensive army because its Oops All Battleline 120 neophytes 60 DeWalt Acolytes 60 Flamer Acolytes

Beat by AdMech and Guard

[desert jay]

Guard has historically been helped by some real nice combo boxes

[sour sequoia]

(This is why I lurked and bought entire armies off meta chasers for 20% MSRP who thought they’d be The Guy and GSC is instead a weird pervert tech army)

[tardy vault]

this is the way

[desert jay]

Not just the fact that Guard combo boxes are good, but it seems like every time they do the Xmas combo boxes Guard have one

[tardy vault]

(I'm looking forward to the DoK nerf when I can buy a ton of aelves for super cheap)

[floral herald]

Kinda wild there's enough people who want to play GSC and don't know that they're the weird pervert tech army

[pale narwhal]

I would want to play them because they’re the weird pervert tech army

Like

[tardy vault]

sucks that their current combat patrol is fucking awful as a starter box

[sour sequoia]

Its the 40k version of elohell I think because Innes Wilson is #1 worldwide rn

But Innes is a Freak

[desert jay]

A lot of the current slate of combat patrols have been disappointing

[floral herald]

Combat patrol the game mode fucked it all up

[desert jay]

IDK how the 10e ones are competitive with all 9e ones that have 10e rules and are still legal

inb4 "That's the neat part, they aren't!"

[tardy vault]

Yeah, you can kind of see how the second they made it a gamemode all the vehicles just disappeared

well, most of them

[desert jay]

There's a few but way less

[sour sequoia]

Achilles Ridgerunner with the dog ass 3 shot rocket pod being the GOAT of combat patrol is hilarious

[floral herald]

They're very much unbalanced and a lot of the unbalance is older ones with centerpiece models running people over

[tardy vault]

(side note, how the fuck do you make a guard starter box and not stick a tank in it like holy fuck)

[floral herald]

The old chaos box with the Helbrute is kinda a terror

[desert jay]

9e one didn't have a tank but it had 25 infantry and 2 arty pieces and a sentinel

[floral herald]

Since good luck killing a Helbrute for a lot of the teams

And they also get a lascannon and a melta gun

[sour sequoia]

How about dark eldar with two goddamn boats and like a full incubi unit

[tardy vault]

I have to imagine the Drukari box with the two ships is hell

[floral herald]

That one is crazy good value wtf

Such a good one

[tardy vault]

delisted tho

GW knew

[floral herald]

Needed for an army which is practically obligate mounties

[sour sequoia]

I’m so vulnerable to goth baddies and its sitting at the LGS

I’m so tempted

I spent too much money on GSC tho

[pale narwhal]

Tau had a great combat patrol in 9e

The current one is good value but less so

[desert jay]

The boat crews are like another squad of guys too with some light kitbashing

[tardy vault]

i.e. just gluing them to a base instead of the ship

[floral herald]

The current CSM one is kinda cool

Makes it easy to get the MoP finally

Otherwise it's mostly meat and potatoes guys

[desert jay]

But yeah, bad 9e combat patrols were mostly like "haha funny meme list" and bad 10e combat patrols are like "why is this sub-300 pts"

[sour sequoia]

Oh yeah thats the secret of GSC: buy the brood brothers kill team and put em on 32s every single one is dead ringers for GSC characters

$150 for full playset every character besides Jackal Alphuses who you get from each combat patrol

[floral herald]

The Chaos Knights "Combat Patrol" is a really funny one

[tardy vault]

is it just war dogs?

[floral herald]

It's these 2 guys

[tardy vault]

lmao

[desert jay]

CK and IK each have a non-box combat patrol that's two dogs/armigers

Both have special rules WRT objectives but seem fairish

[mental birch]

It is as long as you learn to play to score not to kill

Becausw their scoring potential is kinda bad

[mental birch]

A joke list did it

And worst part is thst joke list was pretty reasonable looking if you didn't notice the price

Ah shit really should scroll down first

Before replyig

I jumped around wayyy too much in the chat lol

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/CDzWkXI87T

[pale narwhal]

I wonder how well a skaven screaming bell or plague furnace pendulum would fit atop one of those

Could be a neat conversion

[west zealot]

So thinking about it, this one amuses me:

The imperium of man might actually be onto something here?

Because realstically, aerodynamics and gravity are a product of each unique planet, which means an optimum design for one planet will ahve issues on anotehr planet.

But BIG ENGINE GO FAST... is generally gonna work pretty well, at least as long as you don't like, need oxygen or whatever

[jaunty dawn]

so many of the army fliers are like

undeniably air breathing that need oxygen to some extent

but also inexplicably work in space on a regular basis so

[tardy vault]

Lost game 4 30-62. Didn't ask about a manifestation and lost because of it.

[finite compass]

I can't find the article, but IIRC they actually tested some in a wind tunnel

And the most aerodynamic 40k aircraft were, by a large margin, the Orks

...Mostly because Ork aircraft are basically F-86/MiG-15 with bitz attached

[jaunty dawn]

haha ye

[floral herald]

Orks is the greenest and the best

[uneven ember]

remember, the IoM's premier dogfighter is this fucking thing

[floral herald]

That one’s like an energy fighter I think the Lightning is their dogfighter

It is also a brick

[vital barn]

the Voss lightning is the good one, yeah

the OG actually-good-plane for the Imperium is the Primaris Lightning, this funky looking thing, and it's the crusade-era version of the one Cyan posted, before they lost the tech and then rediscovered it

it was apparently extremely nimble and shooty but a huge bitch to fly to the point you needed either a specialist servitor or an Astartes as pilot to get the most out of it, and they were considering an export-model version that normal humans could fly before the Heresy kicked off

which presumably is vaguely analogous to the 40k one

[uneven ember]

this is basically the Lightning model they used for AI
I think they might have been downplayng the one above because curves don't fit into their design aesthetic anymore

[vital barn]

isn't AI a 30k-era game now?

[uneven ember]

it is now but when they released the Lightning it was for the Taros campaign against the Tau

[floral herald]

Yeah

[vital barn]

they would be flying Voss lightnings with ye olde wired-shut throttles

or whatever the equivalent is for a "plasma ramjet"

[floral herald]

Kinda funny how it evolved to that from being IN v TAC as the primary forces

[vital barn]

I have a lingering affection for the Voss lightning because in HH1e and HH2e it was the premier ground attack anti-armour option, accept no substitutes

those missiles it slings are basically infinite-range meltabombs

in 3e it sadly lost the option for the funny kraken missiles and is now condemned to mid

but it spent a solid decade making spartan deathstar players sad as their party bus with 1000pts of primarch + melee unit in it got popped in their deployment zone

why the air superiority plane was so good at tank hunting nobody knows

[uneven ember]

personally I prefer the Thunderbolt for air superiority
not quite as nimble or as fast but when it does get a target in its sights it can do something about it

[vital barn]

I tended to fly Avengers instead, two lascannon and two Krakens was usually good enough for tanks compared to the Lightning's six Krakens, and the bolt cannon + extra armour made it a bit more flexible in the CAS role

I rarely had them dogfighting

[floral herald]

I think it’s kinda funny how I don’t think there is a single guided bomb in 40K

(Missiles don’t count)

[vital barn]

oh, lightning used to pack those too, albeit in a very fucky way, because you could strip all the cargo out of it and load up phosphex bomb clusters instead, which drop, explode, and then the fire crawls to the target

[floral herald]

I guess that counts lol

[vital barn]

how horrific nanotech hellfire that taints the ground forever and possibly blows up mid-flight at the slightest possible provocation is easier to fit on a plane than a JDAM I don't know

but the Mechanicum had lots of phosphex and not a lot of JDAM kits

[floral herald]

Not even the Tau use LGBs

[vital barn]

aren't their "bombs" actually just balls of plasma that get fired out of a thingy towards the ground?

[uneven ember]

Tau are the only AI faction that don't use any bombs at all
it's very funny

[vital barn]

or was that older fluff

[floral herald]

They’re mostly missiles and gunfire iirc

[vital barn]

the Sunshark definitely had a bomb config

yeah it still does, albeit as a datasheet ability rather than a weapon

it is kind of dinky though, very much the Tau equivalent of chucking hand grenades out of a biplane compared to their usual big bulky aircraft

[floral herald]

Oh yeah it’s plasma shooting huh

[uneven ember]

huh, yeah
in AI their way of taking out ground targets was "shoot it with your rail gun, duh"

[floral herald]

I’m surprised orks don’t have a grot bomb

Maybe the grots won’t get in unless they have a rocket

[uneven ember]

grot boms in AI were A/A

[vital barn]

I've always liked that the 30k rules for artillery very much tend to incentivise "fuck it, more barrels"

[uneven ember]

the grot bommer drops them out and they zip around the board for the rest of the game until they blow something up

[vital barn]

bigger templates care less about scatter, so I'm sitting here looking at a list and going "well, I could have two self-propelled mortars with space marine crews, or I could have four shitty stationary artillery pieces manned by conscripts and pointed vaguely in the right direction, which will probably do better"

which is fun in a game that otherwise very much rewards having decently elite infantry and armour

[floral herald]

I think this kinda confirms the “grots won’t get in without a rocket” theory a little

[misty violet]

Y'know I had assumed the DEldar Void Mine was guided somehow but I don't think that's ever explicitly stated anywhere

Just that it's dropped with pinpoint precision, which I suppose you could just say is because the bombers themselves are that accurate

[floral herald]

I think that’s reasonable to be guided