Warhammer and Such

[floral herald]

I didn’t actually play Soulstorm much

[misty violet]

But the Necrons were generally much more a horror faction at that point

[misty violet]

Ironically Soulstorm was both my first DoW and my introduction to 40k at all

[floral herald]

Titan: God Machine was mine but I got into DoW as the first game I played too

I forget what was out at the time but I mostly played dark crusade

[sour sequoia]

Badly

yes I’d like an order of guard, hold the order

Brood Brothers Auxilia has exactly one role and its 300+ bodies at OC 2-4

And its mostly still GSC

may be one of the 5 worst detaches tbh

[tired cairn]

Oh, none of these "have an army made up of no units from the chosen faction" are going to be a good idea. Just a funny one

[rocky shale]

Yeah I think it was precodex you could do it

[mental birch]

Playable admech RTS?

[desert jay]

I'm now trying to remember if pre-codex Brood Brothes got orders or not

[rocky shale]

Nope

It was also terrible

[desert jay]

Fair

But I guess at least the index Brood Brother rules let you throw in a tank or whatever and then still have a good 1800 pt army with it

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Warhammer/s/J3bPzaBR9t

Is that a thick enough coat of paint

[bright dove]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[paper bluff]

One thick coat

[tired cairn]

For maximum coverage, make sure to use multiple thick coats

[charred bridge]

Multiple coats? In this economy?

[sour sequoia]

80 neophytes painted lads

only 40 more to go

unrelated GW please let me take 5 copies of a benefictus

I deserve 120 sustain-lethal 5+ critting battleline models

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/GBFZZHoEWv

[still warren]

Cool dwarfs get hashut cultists now, time to kitbash some kharadon

[rocky shale]

Little salty that chaos knights got the exact same point increases as chaos knights when IK is sitting around 5% higher WR

[soft willow]

Wardogs didn't really get hit outside the Karnivore

I think they just wanted to make the triple plus big lists a little harder to support.

IK is at a 5% higher win rate on having a better army rule, and who knows how that will change when the book happens

[rocky shale]

Most lists lose about 1 war dog which is fine

Dogs aren't particularly good currently outside of karnis

[soft willow]

They're still solid choices for their costs even without the IK detachment and Bondsmen buffs.

[tired cairn]

I find it funny that the new Salamander detachment refers to actions. Even though actions are (aiui) only ever defined in the mission packs and aren't technically a core rule

[pine matrix]

That's sick as hell. "The first king" is an awesome title

[sour sequoia]

honestly I wouldn't mind them having actions in core, they're in crusade games too and being able to build for em in army/unit rules is good

[floral herald]

Yeah

Actions being like, game critical and somehow absent from core is weird

[sour sequoia]

I imagine if you started saying certain battleline units could like, action and shoot or action while engaged, you'd see a lot more people take some regular units

<-------is still mad about the death of force org charts

but also I want other people to be able to play secondaries lmfao

[tired cairn]

They should definitely be in core. It wasn't even a well defined thing in the first mission deck though lol (which was weird because they had actions in previous editions)

Well, right now Battleline's main things (besides the mostly irrelevant you can take six rule) is having more OC than normal for their size. But yeah, I don't think they did a great job with encouraging battleline for many (most?) factions even if I'm pretty ok with the death of force orgs

[desert jay]

The limit 6 rule's relevance really depends on how many good infantry squads your faction has

[soft willow]

I mean in Knights the limit 6 on Armigers is great.

[tired cairn]

Yeah, there are a few exceptions

[soft willow]

I don't really care about limit 6 on Tormentors since I won't be taking that many.

[desert jay]

And even if you're only taking 4-5 of something that's more than 3

[rocky shale]

CK lost battleline on war dogs outside of one detschment so maybe the same for IK codex?

Aledari guardians are real rough in terms of "never actually want more than 3"

[soft willow]

Seems unlikely without a new Armiger, but not impossible.

Given that CK have what five datasheets for them and IK have two?

[rocky shale]

True

[cinder wraith]

what if we get Warhammer popularized enough to the point we'll get a "My Immortal"-esque fanfiction

[rocky shale]

Probably already does

[tired cairn]

I'd be really surprised if 40k was lacking in bad fanfiction

maybe it's outcompeted by bad official fiction

[upper canopy]

40k has been getting that since like 1999

[desert jay]

Surely that started before 1999

[floral herald]

The bulk of FOC editions also had like no troops taken

5e was the major exception since it made only troops score and also featured lots of undercosted and/or very amped troops choices

[charred bridge]

Is the implication there's a lot of good ones

[tired cairn]

Oh, lmao. I guess they were generally a "tax". Which I think the legacy of is part of the reason they are underused (particularly compared to what the intent seems to be)

[floral herald]

Yeah “troops tax” was a term for a while

I played orks and boyz were just extremely good for their points so we we an exception

[jaunty dawn]

a lot of the foc editions had ways to ignore the foc

by making units you want to spam troops for like, aspect warrior or bike armies

or just by alternate foc charts being available

8th edition is probably one of the most like. foc incentivising troops edition because they were in the detachments that gave you many command points

but that just made factions with good troops better than everyone else cause they were effectively playing like 200 points ahead

and also the faction rules meant all imperium players just allied in guard or skitarii

the main thing foc kinda did was you'd have like

rule of 3 for an entire role, theoretically

[tired cairn]

I guess GW wants people to take a bunch of troops but (generally) prefers them not to be too (directly) powerful (which I can imagine a lot of good reasons for). Which is a tricky tightrope to walk

[jaunty dawn]

but also that massively screwed over some factions while doing nothing to stop others on a completely arbritrary basis

[floral herald]

Yeah

It’s been mishandled a bunch of different ways and amounts but GW has never really hit it quite right

[jaunty dawn]

I think at the end of the day what they're kinda avoiding with the modern move to minimal restrictions is like exactly the troop tax

telling ppl you can't buy this till you buy this, you can't play if you don't have this, etc

which in that respect I think it's kinda a good thing I guess

[floral herald]

Yeah I agree

It makes competitive listbuilding weird but like

[jaunty dawn]

I really enjoy force org puzzles personally but like

[floral herald]

I think that’s an okay price to pay since I’m not a super competitive player anyway

I like to keep up with the meta and such

[jaunty dawn]

It always varied a lot whether there actually was one as well

[floral herald]

Cause I like stats

But I don’t play enough to play at that level anyway

[tired cairn]

It makes it weird but list variety might be better these days so whatever?

[desert jay]

How often were there FOC 40K editions where every (viable) FOC option had 1+ mandatory troop slot, versus sometimes it's legal (even if disincentivized) to take 0 troops?

[jaunty dawn]

uhh

3rd 4th 5th had 1 foc

[floral herald]

3e-5e had 1 FOC and you had to take 2 troops

[jaunty dawn]

but different factions had varying amounts of troop tricking

[floral herald]

They did fucky stuff later

[jaunty dawn]

I think 6e is when people started doing 2 foc (ie, 4 troops) at 2000 points but 2000 points also wasn't super common

it was also optional if you used 1 or 2

7e is when formations throw everything out the window

i think also in both those editions you could play unbound but I think that was banned sometimes on a tournament level

and then mechanically disincentivised more and more when it went from losing a warlord trait reroll to losing all the formation benefits

8e had up to 3 focs at 2000 points, you could take troopless detachments but the two with compulsory troops were heavily incentivised by the command points they gave. this is also when the game moved to 3 troop 2 hq

9e shifted gears significantly by instead of incentivising troop detachments they disincentivised non troop detachments, but you could legally play without them

[pastel rampart]

They did do some fucky FOC stuff in 3e but it was mostly stuff like "fast attack count as troops" or "you can have 4 heavy choices."

[jaunty dawn]

there was also the concept of alt foc for different missions

including assymetrical foc

[pastel rampart]

And I guess Daemonhunters being attachments for imperial armies.

[floral herald]

5e also had a few “this special character makes X troops” iirc

[jaunty dawn]

there was stuff like

[floral herald]

Like bikers with Korsarro and terminators for Belial and such

[jaunty dawn]

you could make cult units troops by taking the right mark on your lord

deff dreads as one of your two compulsory troops by taking a big mek

tervigons were just straight up troops

but because it was on a codex basis and you wouldn't necessarily even get a codex it was feast or famine

[desert jay]

Mind you if I was writing 40k half of SM's force org would be chapter serfs with guns

Why? Because having normal humans around makes the super-soldiers look taller

Sorry my brain went on a tangent after seeing "you could make cult units troops" instead of being the default

[upper canopy]

It also makes sense

Because a thousand guys cant actually accomplish things on the grand scale of 40k if you breath the slightest realism into it

[hard whale]

bit of a hard sell though. Who's going to tell wide-eyed little timmy that he needs to save up his pocket money and put together a box of Dishevelled Peasants for each unit of Cool Space Knights he wants?

[pastel rampart]

Brettonian players have been fine with that for decades.

[upper canopy]

And id be fine with it now

[jaunty dawn]

Cult units as in berserkers/plaguemarines/etc

[rocky shale]

Brettonian players are notoriously not acknowledged by GW

[jaunty dawn]

Cultists were the cheap unit that made taking csm squads obselete haha

[desert jay]

Oh right cult legion units

Not cultist units

[jaunty dawn]

Like with scouts

[charred bridge]

Ngl the idea of chapter serfs legions would be sick for this. Imagine how cool it would be to do combined arms tactics but the vehicles are astartes

Don't say it was combined arms and people would get the impression these guys are running tanks on 2 legs in the eyes of these humans who are both serfs but specially trained to work in tangent with them

Like how you'd train infantry different from like vehicle infantry

[tired cairn]

I think scouts being less elite trainee kind of messes up also having chapter serfs gameplay space wise?

I do think chapter serfs should look cool though. Kind of like 30k not-IG or some of the pictures shown of the Ultramarine PDF troops

[upper canopy]

Sodaz has confirmed that guardsmen working with marines is cooler than just marines

https://youtu.be/_rWz5_sQCO0?si=y0GIPCAAU-uTSfB8

The Contrast

It Adds So Much

[silk verge]

chapter serfs should be twinks in monk robes with shitty autoguns

they die if u even land a hit they don’t have wounds

[upper canopy]

If you kill all of them surrounding a marine the marine cant shoot anymore

Since they cant hold any extra clips

[silk verge]

bodyblocked

lmao every marine with a rocket launcher needs his serf twinks to carry the ammo

[runic swallow]

It is funny to look at most marine models and art and realize they have at most, one reload

[charred bridge]

Ironic considering unlike like lasguns bolters dont recharge

[runic swallow]

The imperial guard has discovered the archeotech known as “the ALICE load bearing system”

It is believed to have been used during a war during an Ice Age on Old Earth, as we find references to a “Cold War”

[floral herald]

Lore wise everywhere on the armor is load bearing for their magnetic lock system but the models don’t usually reflect it

[runic swallow]

Yeah, and I know they don’t really wanna go full Tacticool with a chest rig of mags

[upper canopy]

Nor do any games or animations or anything

[runic swallow]

Sometimes they’ll show a bolt pistol locked to a thigh

But usually they have it in a holster

[charred bridge]

Its kind of baked into the conceit of the setting at this point but to me itd make sense astartes would have las weapons considering they can essentially integrate heavy power packs for lasguns into their power armor.

[upper canopy]

They have fusion reactors on their back!

[runic swallow]

Lascannons, got it

[charred bridge]

And id say bolters for guardsmen as is bolt rounds are more difficult to produce en masse compared to lasgun batteries which I find funny.

[upper canopy]

They have infinite ammo for las guns!

[runic swallow]

Oh, any modern military would kill to get lasguns even if just for the logistics impact

Let alone the ease of use and low maintenance

[charred bridge]

This advanced super laser weapon with infinite ammo that can recharged a million ways is easier to produce en masse than asking planets to make their own gyrojets ammo

[floral herald]

Phobos guys have chest rigs but they’re for grenades yeah

[charred bridge]

Lasguns do seem ideal in the real world

[upper canopy]

Lasguns are ideal in 40k, Space Marines are just dumb

[runic swallow]

To be fair, they started as terror weapons

And Astartes were originally meant to have volkites

[charred bridge]

To me I chalk it up to the satire grimdark that the elites get seeming more primitive weapons from our view and the grunts gets the super sci fi ones

[runic swallow]

But they were more expensive

[floral herald]

Lasguns are also substantially less powerful than boltguns

[runic swallow]

Also out of universe bolters are Metal as fuck 🤘

[charred bridge]

Pretty much

[upper canopy]

A hotshot lasgun is only a little bit less powerful than a bolter

[pulsar cairn]

I like lasguns

[upper canopy]

and if you hooked it up to the armor's power system it'd have essentially infinite ammo

[charred bridge]

If I could replace bolter sounds in SM2 with bass boosted pings I would.

Rapid fire destroying my ears

[tired cairn]

Deathwatch totally should though

[runic swallow]

Oh yeah

Also just gonna mention again that I really like the heavier mid-Cold War vibe guard/cadians have now

[bright dove]

The difference between the stopping power of a lasgun and a bolter is enough that I get it.

[runic swallow]

Tbh the descriptions of lasgun effectiveness is wildly inconsistent

[bright dove]

Logistics are great and all, but sometimes you just want the Boy to be missing most of its torso.

[runic swallow]

And even how it’s wounds work

[floral herald]

As is bolter power tbf

Lasguns usually are in the ballpark of like 7.62 to .50 bmg and bolters are… kind of all over the place

[bright dove]

Also comes down to space marines are expected to do a different job than the guard

[floral herald]

I don’t think it’s necessarily rational since space marines are highly traditionalistic

[charred bridge]

"The Codex Astartes does not support this action"

I think it also plays into the silly of imperium

[bright dove]

Well, it's not just the Imperium with space marines is where that falls apart

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009942157701939270/1407776096371343510/img_1_1755710345667.jpg?ex=68a75528&is=68a603a8&hm=9eb630b38059cd2246ddbd3feaa688657f282d9830b6ddf0059890fb931a6dec&

[bright dove]

The real question is this: Why do the Iron Warriors use bolters?

[runic swallow]

Terror weapon

[floral herald]

The IW still maintain legion traditions and the culture of the legion and the bolter’s a big symbol of that

[runic swallow]

But it would be their kinda thing to run souped-up Hellguns instead

[floral herald]

There are chaos space marines who I could see abandoning it

Like how the Black Legion forces joinees to ritually abandon and destroy their old traditions

[runic swallow]

But also they make a shitload of shells anyways so what’s a few billion more

[charred bridge]

Yea Bolters are a weapon that inspire terror but I think its funny on a meta perspective that it would not for many enemies except for chaos cultists and humans.
The mostly unthinking necrons, the orks who get giddy hear loud dakka, Chaos who has seen way worse than an exploding person, Tau probably think its just laughably primitive (until astartes do their thing), nids dont care they want you as food

[runic swallow]

Also now I’m thinking of one-man IW mortar teams

[bright dove]

Daemon-Mortar

[runic swallow]

Just the one guy carrying the tube, shells, and doing the calculations in his head

Well of course, gotta have all kinds of exotic ammo

[bright dove]

Oh we just reinvented the Defiler

[floral herald]

I don’t really know where the terror weapon thing came from

[runic swallow]

No, IW actually do make and use demonic shells

[floral herald]

My understanding is that the bolter was originally designed to kill orks more than anything else

[runic swallow]

They summon demons and shove them into the rounds to serve as the payload

[floral herald]

Armor piercing cap for scrappy armor and a mass reactive charge to actually do enough damage to have some degree of stopping power

[charred bridge]

I cant say, its just what I hear often if someone asks why astartes use bolters compared to mini lascannon

[runic swallow]

I swear I remember that they were made during the unification wars

[floral herald]

(To be clear I think this is an official retcon or competing story)

I just think it makes less sense than “for orks”

[runic swallow]

And part of the whole thing with them there was to have the oh shit factor alongside the whole shock troop nature of the thunder warriors

[bright dove]

Was reflected in mechanics back in the day. Even wound chance and no armor save for orks, overkill for eldar and squishy humans

[floral herald]

Yeah #makeboltersS5

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

like bolters are designed mostly to make a decisive show of force against an inferior adversary

[bright dove]

Wasn't designed with Necrons or other Space Marines being on the other end, yeah

[floral herald]

My understanding is that bolters wound up at a good nexus of killing power and cost for the great crusade and the imperium largely refuses to modernize their weapons

[bright dove]

What, and do science? That's heresy!

[jaunty dawn]

and also to be more cost effective than volkite at doing that

[runic swallow]

Volkites were too expensive/fiddly in comparison, yeah

[jaunty dawn]

and like, really, as assault rifles bolters are mostly for suppression or mopping up survivors

grenades are the do stuff weapons of the line tactical

[bright dove]

Yeah, it's there for the aftermath of the Space Marine Surprise.

[charred bridge]

We cant innovate

Thats heresy

Only using existing emperor blessed technology

Wasnt Volkite like barely even done, it was supposed to be better las but didnt get much of anywhere cause well events

[floral herald]

Cawl needed the patronage of Guilleman and probably had to kill a lot of Magi to get away with

Extended barrels

[jaunty dawn]

there was also innovations like banestrike bolters

[pastel rampart]

There's STCs of bolters dating back to the DAoT so it predates even that.

[jaunty dawn]

but it was made by the wrong side of the war in the end

[pastel rampart]

Though bolters were used by thunder warriors, and Emps was known to carry around a prototype bolter, so he could've been working off someone else's design before it became standardized.

[charred bridge]

What if they made assault baneblades instead of scout ones /s

[bright dove]

Lasguns are logistical wonders that I would not consider reliable enough to put down an ork or armored enough human unless fired in the Wall of Guns, which has never been Space Marine strategy.

[charred bridge]

Well hotshot lasguns do that perfectly well

[tranquil ivy]

I made some Company Heroes to attach Vulkan Hestan to

my army is a gang of renegades hence the mismatched armor

they also use chaos to match Primaris' power

[charred bridge]

And an astartes sized power pack with their power armor reactor would make it viable to basically have a minilascannon

Astartes arent entirely rational though

[floral herald]

Hotshot lasguns do penetrate armor better but they don’t hit as hard

They’re also, iirc, finicky to keep in operation but this shouldn’t be a big problem for space marines

[charred bridge]

Dont like bolters struggle against ceramite

[tranquil ivy]

PLUG ANOTHER DREADNOUGHT RATED ARTILLERY CANNON DIRECTLY INTO MY BRAINSTEM

[charred bridge]

Especially those of astartes since the ceramite power armor was made after bolters

[bright dove]

Bolters weren't designed to fire into rock, correct. :p

[thin ibex]

something i find hilarious is that everything about bolters implies they are intended to fight soft targets; but lore states they're explicitly well suited to armor penetration

[floral herald]

Yes but so do hotshots

Well, hellguns at least

[charred bridge]

Make ceramite bolters /s

[bright dove]

Infantry armor, yes

[floral herald]

Hotshot refers to a few things

The space marine answer later on is vengeance rounds which are… microfission charges or something whacky

[bright dove]

Hell, you could take out vehicles will well placed shots to thin armor with bolters back in the day.

[charred bridge]

Oh I see I only know hotshot from the guardsmen who carry power packs and tend to do hotshots to kill like chaos marines

[runic swallow]

Hotshots used to be the term for overcharged/lower capacity higher damage mags, Hellguns are the full on cable to a power pack ones

Dunno if that’s still the case

[tranquil ivy]

QUICK QUESTION

WHATS Y'ALL'S FAVOURITE ARMOR TYPE?

[runic swallow]

MK III

[floral herald]

“Unstable flux core” whatever that means

[bright dove]

Living metal

[tranquil ivy]

Mine is the MKVI Corvus pattern, with the new MK3 close second :>

[charred bridge]

Necrodermis

[floral herald]

Hotshots refers to a couple of things:

• hellguns which stormtroopers carry and are more or less a backpack fed las-lmg with a stronger laser
• “hot shot packs” which are conventional lasgun power packs modified to put the whole charge down the barrel in one shot

[tranquil ivy]

hell yeah. old or new MK3?

[charred bridge]

Ah id be laking about hellguns then

[floral herald]

The latter are more powerful but also tend to drastically reduce the lifespan of the gun

[charred bridge]

Or wait I thought there was something similar to like hot shot a lasgun with cables to power pack to do a massive one shot

[runic swallow]

Uhhh, the ones they made a few years back at non-Primaris scale

I’ve been out of the game for a while due to life stuff

[floral herald]

That exists too it’s called a “lascannon” :p

[vital barn]

the 30k lore is "everyone used to pack Volkites in the Unification Wars, with are generally both better and scarier than bolters, but then that became a real logistical pain in the arse so they mostly swapped to bolters once the Crusade proper started, because they're easier to maintain and you can load them with all kinds of things"

volkites are fiddly and also set everything on mega-fire, which can be a pain

[runic swallow]

Pro: Everything is on fire
Con: Everything is on fire

[floral herald]

In theory there could be idk a “lascaliver” or “lasfalconet” or something which fits in between a hellgun and a lascannon in terms of power

[charred bridge]

Ah I thought lascannon was the mounted one as manned turrets or on vehicles

[vital barn]

they look cool, though

[tranquil ivy]

Left is old, right is new

[vital barn]

volkite go pew

[floral herald]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/46/Catalogue_Ganger_with_Lascannon.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20130825030420

[vital barn]

is this not a multilaser, or do you mean a single shot device

[floral herald]

They also come in “man portable”

[charred bridge]

Volkite was delayed cause they wanted the anime laser circle to be cooler /s

[floral herald]

I mean something smaller since aiui a multilaser is as big as a lascannon but for many shots not one

[tranquil ivy]

oh yeah volkite is fucking awesome

[charred bridge]

Oh I see

[runic swallow]

Iirc they’re in SM2 now

[vital barn]

aha, the Solar Auxilia has somethign for this

[thin ibex]

I still don't get "bolter is .75 caliber, bolter uses a self propelled round that functionally works like a rocket or grenade, bolt rifle has longer barrel for more range." Wouldn't you need more propellant for more range?

Also the rounds are "mass reactive" which implies they don't explode if they don't penetrate

[runic swallow]

I’ve not played that update though

[tranquil ivy]

at first i thought volkite was how Meltas worked, a constant stream of melting fire, but turns out Meltas are actually more like shockwaves or something

[floral herald]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/29/Space_Marine_Lascannon.gif/revision/latest?cb=20101210191224

[vital barn]

The Solar Auxilia had slightly cooler but less wieldy long-barrelled lasrifles, 30" range and two shots out to full range while standing still, rather than two shots to half range while moving

[floral herald]

This one is still a shoulder fired big rifle in fairness

[vital barn]

they also had "blast-chargers", which are adapters doctrinally similar to your rifle grenade, which fires a single big shot

that might be what you want here

[floral herald]

Meltas have never been well described it rules

[jaunty dawn]

hot shot las packs are las packs jury rigged to do the hellgun thing

[thin ibex]

And then also there's the classic issue of "if the round is as big as it is, it runs into physical issues around actually being capable of armor penetrating effectively, depending on the velocity of the bolt and the speed of being self propelled

[charred bridge]

Do they not have those on regual human infantry?

[runic swallow]

Depends on if you go in for the idea of the cased “kick charge” idea, where there’s an initial cased charge that gets it going before the “caseless” main round starts going

[jaunty dawn]

while hellguns are actually designed to work that way

is my view on it

[tranquil ivy]

not to mention the new Horus Heresy trailer shows a guy shooting a melta gun like a volkite weapon

[runic swallow]

Since while bolters are on paper caseless everyone loves the cool rain of shell casings

[vital barn]

hellguns typically have big backpack power banks and a cable running to the gun, judging by stormtroopers

[jaunty dawn]

backpack ammunition solves the power draw, jacketed barrels solves the lifespan

[tranquil ivy]

space marine has it like a wave of fire, horus heresy makes it look like a volkite weapon

it's weird

but the fire wave idea makes sense due to the short range

[vital barn]

meltas have never been consistent, sometimes they're yellow goop shotguns, sometimes they're beams

[jaunty dawn]

space marine is more the outlier I think, strictly speaking

as much as I love space marines take on the weapon roster

[vital barn]

@floral herald your midrange man-portable heavy las of choice, at least in 30k

[floral herald]

Descriptions of the weapons range even further from invisible microwave beams to plasma shotguns

[tranquil ivy]

i think personally im gonna say goop shotguns because it does more damage when within 9"

[vital barn]

blast pistol is your revolver to the laspistol's glock

[jaunty dawn]

space marine melta is just Shotgun and space marine plasma is just Grenade Launcher

[vital barn]

ignore the increased fire rate on the blast pistol, that's game balance

it's the expensive sarge pick

[floral herald]

Oh is it the same kind of laser thingy?

[vital barn]

apparently they discontinued them because the blast-charger adapter wears out the lasrifle extremely quickly, but they're how you hurt big things with lasrifle spam in 30k

[floral herald]

I read that and assumed it was like the eldar one haha

[tranquil ivy]

how it feels collecting and advocating for Horus Heresy miniatures despite not knowing a single fucking thing about the game

[thin ibex]

It's mostly a like contest of "bolters are the meatiest, meanest, full auto miniature rocket launchers that explode their targets, with massive rounds to fit their massive warriors" mildly disagreeing with "The bolts are armor penetrating rounds despite being comparably rather large rounds and using an on board propellant to hit its highest velocity somewhere on the midpoint of its travel time."

[vital barn]

Many Solar Auxilia regiments sanctioned the use of forced-chamber over-compression cells, more commonly known as "blast-chargers".

These devices imposed a kind of contained overload on a las gun's firing chamber, resulting in the expulsion of an unstable pulse of energy far more powerful than that of a standard las-discharge. Crude jury-rigged modifications fashioned for this effect had always been known, but at the Lords Solar's request, refined mechanisms of this type were put into production for special issue, particularly where large and deadly xenos species such as the Orks were expected to be encountered.

Even so, such a massive increase in firepower on even the best manufactured las gun frame was not without a price and every time it was used, the weapon risked catastrophic overheating, and in the worst case, the total burnout of the weapon. Such risks meant that, in practice, blast-chargers were employed only by express order and in the direst of situations.

A similar technology was employed far more reliably in a range of artisan-produced las weapons known commonly as "Blast Pistols." These bespoke weapons were able to fire only a handful of shots before reloading, but their damage output rivalled that of arcane Volkite Weaponry.

[bright dove]

Everyone loves a Big Iron

[vital barn]

it's a big can you stick on the end of your lasrifle barrel, so doctrinally it's essentially a rifle grenade that fires in a straight line

for when you want to deal vaguely appreciable damage to something like a Thallax

not lots of damage, but better than plinking for 1/36 chances of taking off half its health

[tranquil ivy]

i wish volkite weapons were more often in 40k

[thin ibex]

40mm grenades, for example, were never particularly armor penetrative, they instead used explosive force and concussion as their mechanisms.

Its weird in my mind that a bolt is meant to be broadly analogous to a launched explosive projectile that both penetrates armor despite it's large, heavy round; and explodes like a small rocket with a mass sensitive payload.

[tranquil ivy]

do y'all think Hellblasters could be reflavored as experimental Volkite weapons?

[rocky shale]

Play votann

[tranquil ivy]

i'm already knee deep in space marines

[vital barn]

40k guardsmen are a few levels down to load up on volkite

marines, sure

personally I am a fan of the Mechanicum's phased-plasma weapons, which are plasma LMGs

[rocky shale]

Volkite in 10th is also all 0AP dev wound guns

[vital barn]

I do not know how to translate the statline of the plasma fusil to 40k because 10th disgusts me

[bright dove]

The lasgun is perfect for the guard tbh

[vital barn]

but in heresy it's basically a heavy bolter that pens power armour and takes chunks out of artificer/terminator armour

really nice weapon to just litter everywhere in your army

[tranquil ivy]

i see the idea, but good lord theyre trash

[vital barn]

the space marine buzzsaw

[bright dove]

The Wall of Guns just works

[runic swallow]

“Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.”
“Hey, just what you see on the shelf buddy”

[tranquil ivy]

May i introduce you to 70 dev wound attacks 👁️

[vital barn]

guy in the front left is rocking the plasma fusil

I think they look neat

[tranquil ivy]

adeptus mechanicus

so good, but so expensive

[vital barn]

the mechanicus models they've been putting out lately repel and appall me, they look like terrible shitty tinmen

[tired cairn]

I like the use of the word "phased" in this context because it sure doesn't make any sense lol

[vital barn]

the Mechanicum look incredible

and play really well, too

they had a big glow-up in 3.0

[tired cairn]

Give us the 30k miniatures in 40k you cowards

[vital barn]

little bit lacking in stuff to crack AV14-all-around like Land Raiders and Spartans, otherwise doing great

[rocky shale]

You mean the servitors? That's pretty much the only new model they've had in 10th other than the tall boy.

[vital barn]

tall boy, stupid winged guys, the cavalry

[tired cairn]

I would be in grave danger of buying them (but I already am a little since I think they have some pretty close in size to the robots)

[vital barn]

the cavalry is OK but doesn't really feel like the grand might of the mechanicum rather than "some weird dudes in Necromunda"

[tired cairn]

I like the Calvary and winged guys a bit. Not as cool as the 30k robots though

[rocky shale]

That's like every admech release in the last 5 years lol

[vital barn]

basically the same

[vital barn]

yeah, and they all look like shit, so I am avoiding them

[tired cairn]

Tallboy is really dumb, but like, peak 40k dumb so I can't be mad

[vital barn]

doesn't help that we have been steadily downgraded to "4+ save guardsmen horde army" from our original position of "weirdo stormtroopers with Tau-grade shooty"

whereas the Mechanicum are still going strong and picking up squads in melee

[tired cairn]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is happy with their mechanics right now

[vital barn]

meanwhile, in gigachad-meme mechanicum land we have all of these

(at 28mm scale, but they look nice in Titanicus size too)

I am especially fond of the Domitar, which is hueg

[tired cairn]

I'm not a fan of the top guys. They remind me of really old miniature where they didn't have the modeling tech to fit the concept 😅. I really like the Conveyor though

[vital barn]

the Vorax are great guardsmen-shredders but their legs do look a little dorky, yeah

but everyone else is doing excellently

[runic swallow]

I like their bug look

[vital barn]

they're a little front-heavy, they would look less like ED-209 if they had four legs

[tranquil ivy]

hear me out chat
i just realized I have a severe lack of lore for my space marine renegades

should i just start giving them lore based off of tabletop battles?

[runic swallow]

It can be a fun way to do it

[tranquil ivy]

they havent won a single battle yet lol

but when I do, I will place a battlefield trophy on the base

[vital barn]

the 30k Magi also take the 40k Magi to the cleaners

[tranquil ivy]

[such as an Ork skull if I beat orks, or a Space Marine helmet if I beat them]

[vital barn]

without wanting to fat-shame the Magos, his model is so incredibly busy I have no idea what's going on

[uneven ember]

my faction isn't so much about individual battles as some of the specific people I used to play against a lot
but yeah that can be a fun way to do it

[tranquil ivy]

well i have so many unique characters that they deserve lore

quietly slides my slaanesh infused infernus squad behind my back

do not question why the armor has breasts. question why they have dragon heads

[tired cairn]

I'm not a fan of the animal skull, but I really like the Archmagos Prime

[vital barn]

you know I always thought he was the least cool of them

something about the pose

[tired cairn]

I do think the 40k tech-priest dominus looks good

[vital barn]

then again I usually run Archmagos on Abeyant and that means that my Archmagi are massive boys

[tired cairn]

Ha, no accounting for taste etc.

[vital barn]

stats: yes

(not shown: about an entire page of wargear options, he doesn't just have frags)

[tired cairn]

I also greatly prefer the Skitarii over tech-thralls aesthetics wise

[vital barn]

thralls are essentially Voteless but with more cogs, I don't consider them real infantry

not that 30k mech uses much light infantry

it's either thralls or Thallax, because the Thallax start at 20pts a model so you can actually have a good number of them

[runic swallow]

They were the second(?) cheapest infantry option in HH though

[vital barn]

they're weirdos now

[runic swallow]

Potential for piles and piles of them aside from how expensive the models were

[vital barn]

T5 with no armour to speak of and 6+ FNP, so they're kind of annoying to shift with light guns like lasguns or bolters

but they're 10ppm, which is as much as tacs

[tired cairn]

Huh, they don't seem to have many 30k tech-priests for sale on the Warhammer website

[vital barn]

their redeeming feature is that an attendant magos can spawn (not replace, spawn) 2-4 of them from thin air every round as he reconstitutes nearby corpses, for free

[floral herald]

I really dig the new mechanicus KT

[desert jay]

Y'know, it's a plasma gun that goes "wobwobwob" instead of "pew pew pew" (which would be pulsed)

made that up

[vital barn]

so your 100pt squad of 10 is a 100pt squad of 26 by the end of the game

ablative wounds go brr

that still makes them the second cheapest unit around after lasgun chumps, but I imagine Militia will change that

[tired cairn]

I normally don't like servitors aesthetically, but they did a great job because those ones I actually like

The team looks so hard to play though lol

[vital barn]

oh that's so much better than more shitty tin men, I hadn't see these guys

finally, techpriests worthy of the name

[tired cairn]

I also find it funny how it is a highly integrated group of servitors and their overunderseer. Plus some guy

[vital barn]

I prefer those to Thralls, I might get some for when I need my 10-26 feral thralls

to run into your backyard and soak up your bolter shells

[floral herald]

Yeah they’re very tricky

[vital barn]

there's a fun bit in the books where some space marines fighting the Mechanicum go "oh, it's only a multilaser sentry" and then a night lord gets vivisected by a violet multilas, which has way more energy than the usual red ones

sadly I don't think 30k mech actually gets to field the famed AP3 multilaser

models-wise I am also quite fond of Scoria and the Arcuitor Magisterium, on either ends of the humanity scale

Scoria is a 400pt unkillable monster who will fight ten elite terminators for an entire game of Horus Heresy and either drive them off or die in the last couple of combat phases after starting round 1 turn 1

the Arcuitor is more of your regular duelist champ

[pastel rampart]

I'm a weirdo who thinks the MkII is as close to "techno-barbarian" as it can get while still retaining that space marine look. That grill helm is

[vital barn]

oh, space marine armour?

MK3 easy

give me the big grill helm

[pastel rampart]

Thunder Warrior gets a close second shout-out too, I like how funky it is.

[tranquil ivy]

honestly MOOD

[vital barn]

although my actual favourite power armor boy is Alpharius, because his model is great

[tranquil ivy]

as mentioned i am an advocate for the MKVI Corvus pattern

[tired cairn]

(I'm always a bit suspicious when they make the female AdMech the more human looking ones)

[tranquil ivy]

That's not Alpharius

I am Alpharius

[pastel rampart]

MkVI is classic beakie and it has a soft spot for me, especially RT-era.

[vital barn]

without wanting to repeat the usual line, if they were less human, how could you tell

Draykavac Girl Edition has still probably replaced most of her body with mechadendrites and her head with a big ceramite animal skull

[floral herald]

MK5 Heresy and Phobos are my favorite I think

[tranquil ivy]

oh yeah heresy armor goes hard. especially on Charcarodons

[vital barn]

maybe not on the 40k magi, which are still basically dudes in robes, but the 30k ones tend to eventually ascend to something with a lot more carapace than skin

[desert jay]

I get having distinct curves for gender reasons

[pastel rampart]

One of the weirder depictions of female admech I'd seen was art of a magos biologis who had incubation tubes to simulate, well, pregnancy. And while I'm reasonably sure that was someone's fetish art in disguise it was just strange enough for me to go "yeah I could see that happening in the imperium."

[vital barn]

I believe the female archmagos that Lion fights at one point is a giant dragon-snake-robot-thing that gives him some trouble for an hour or two

presumably there was a brain somewhere in there but you couldn't tell where looking at it

[desert jay]

Like disassembling a car engine, except you're looking for one specific part to stab

[bright dove]

Probably the same amount of frustrated swearing while working on it

[vital barn]

hang on, I'll find the account, it was in one of the later black books

[desert jay]

Oh yeah and also the car is doing its best to stab you in return

And the car knows exactly where your bits to stab are

[vital barn]

he wins, because Primarch, but there are barely any details about that battle because it was Lion and a dozen insane rage monster men-of-iron vs Mechadragon and her flunkies, which meant so many nonsense weapons were dumped everywhere barely anyone else lived

so far we have no Mechanicum character who can take a Primarch besides perhaps Scoria vs Corax, a contest of incredible durability vs incredible stabbiness and Corax not having an AP2 D2 weapon

but Scoria is mostly notable for being super tanky, there are Archmagi who are mechanically superior technical fighters than him (better WS, more attacks, higher init, etc.) and he's mentioned specifically for his hacking prowess rather than his combat skills per se

so there are probably quite a few Archmagi Malagra or elder Domini around who can at least give a primarch a good fight

the Dark Angels having a bunch of insane Men of Iron chained up in a vault that they use to rip and tear at enemy mechanicum because DAOT rage monsters are immune to cybertheurgy is quite cool

[desert jay]

I imagine half the Archmagi are like "you don't last this long by putting your own neck on the battlefield. I will, however, remotely control servitors if I need to"

[vital barn]

the Excindio men of iron are not well adjusted

[desert jay]

What's the baseline for well-adjusted in 30k?

[vital barn]

if they're injured they'll attack the nearest unit in line of sight, regardless of faction

if you take one you can give your HQ a kill-switch to blow it up instantly so it doesn't wreck you by going all Sekhmet

[desert jay]

Imagining the very funny scenario of some Magus getting sniped and one of their subordinates having to peel him open in a hurry to get at the kill-switch

[vital barn]

then again, you have to pay for the kill-switches, and they can only be triggered at the end of the turn, so it's possible that you lose the Praetor carrying the bomb collar button and then he tears into your own squad

[vital barn]

Dark Angels only, so it's not even a Magos

there's just a marine wandering around with a big red button marked "destroy irreplaceable relic of the DAOT because it's about to tear my head off"

[desert jay]

Point

[vital barn]

that means you have to cut open the 2+ armour your boss was wearing, which is even worse if anything

[desert jay]

"You, personally, are worth less than this irreplaceable relic, but pressing the button will save the rest of your squad"

(40K trolley problem)

[vital barn]

this is very much the case, to the point that the two unique characters 30k mech have are Scoria (ridiculously durable scorpion-man who can solo nine terminators at once and is entirely capable of surviving a max-power hit from a Titan's meltagun) and Archmagos Draykavac (preferred personal combat technique is "teleport out before they reach melee", and failing that goes for you with the Mech equivalent of the Gom Jabbar before the proper combat phase)

bye motherfuckers, see you when I've made another few thousand zombie warbots for you to fight

he gets a +2 to the run away roll if he's already routed, which is quite funny

for someone with the durability of a Leviathan Dreadnought he's very Skaven

[upper canopy]

I love the one Admech legion where the Skitarii are controlled like RTS units

[pastel rampart]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/DNX05rpN2LJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[cinder wraith]

from a discourse my local community had

[upper canopy]

There's no way this doesn't end up a fist fight

[cinder wraith]

it was through discord and my god it was funny

[tepid stratus]

Damn I've never seen someone so objectively wrong

The beehive mecha is peak

[bright dove]

The Beehive Ghost Dryad Mecha. 😛

[jaunty dawn]

Drycha is so peak

I wanna get another one and convert it for a treelord

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1407856687561445498/bafkreigpwwyh52p6f4ddshatotjud5hsswhlry4v3gdfza6dfpul3x4bs4jpeg.png?ex=68a7a037&is=68a64eb7&hm=159c77ce713fa9842b759e34a1976e7d97fe28ae7b35f4b49323cab69a3baaae&

[pulsar cairn]

You think Horus could have won if his forces werent all chaosy?

He had a LOT of support even without daemonic stuff i feel like

And i feel like his Brothers going daemonic made them help a lot less

Lets also say that the ones who only joined Horus due to corruption such as fulgrim joined him anyway in this scenario

[floral herald]

No

He needed the powers of the warp to force the siege and prevent reinforcements from arriving

[bright dove]

About the only thing that would have changed it was changing which legions showed up with him.

Specifically replacing the Emperor's Children.

They got distracted

[uneven ember]

K-K-K-YEAH

[pulsar cairn]

i see...

[west zealot]

Lasguns should be tterifying and just cook things in tgheir armor, the way the math works out iirc

[uneven ember]

yeah but this is 40K
all the numbers are nonsense

[bright dove]

This is scifi

The numbers are truly nothing but nonsense.

[charred bridge]

Its funny to think if its all canon then there are interstellar wars with lower casualty rates than WWII

Safer to be a guardsmen than be in WWII

[desert jay]

And also being all Chaosy let Horus beat Sanguinius and have a fair fight with the Emperor

[sour sequoia]

Mundane Horus goes something like ‘ohhhh my sonnnn why have you done this I almost thought you were a person the most’

https://tenor.com/view/dr-manhattan-gif-18899941

[sweet solar]

https://bsky.app/profile/topmarx.bsky.social/post/3lwsoo6y65k2p john brown had a fucking power sword?

Gwen (@topmarx.bsky.social)

-# ↩ Isra (@isramoon.bsky.social)
Important detail: John Brown was going around fighting and killing slaveowners with the sickest looking longsword I've ever seen

Bluesky · Aug 20, 2025, 5:22 AM

[upper canopy]

What the fuck

[sour sequoia]

John Brown Motherfucker Unlimited

[west zealot]

Speaking of logistics in Spaaaaaaaaaceeeeee

Those must be hilariously complicated for the poor Grey knights, what with sillyness like "we need to ritually murder a holy man for each bolter shell"

[past sphinx]

its what he beheaded all those slavers in kansas with

its a good museum

[vital barn]

given the size of Imperial ships, it might actually be faster to use the vast shipboard populations to manufacture your holy men on site

I love the completely wild nature of 40k logistics because very occasionally they get the numbers halfway right, and you get something like the Skitarii/Techpriest duology where the first book is tens of thousands of Skitarii and their armoured support invading an Iron Warriors industrial world

at the end of the first arc most of the Skitarii are crushed and in orbit the tech-priest in charge says something on the order of "good reconnaissance-in-force, the real first wave lands in three hours"

which I think was at the very least several million

[brittle salmon]

Which book is this?

[vital barn]

Adeptus Mechanicus: Skitarii and the sequel AM: Tech-Priest

not groundbreaking fiction or anything, very much "look! we have 40k admech models now!" but decent

and that particular minor twist totally got me because I was so used to 40k army numbers being completely random, I absolutely bought that that was the real invasion

(this is not vital to the plot or anything, it was just cute)

[brittle salmon]

heh, that's fair

[vital barn]

we'd had a few chapters of a Skitarii Alpha being badass and someone shooting down a Thunderhawk with the depleted uranium arquebus thing that the Skitarii rangers get, so it had properly immersed you in the idea that this was The War in The War Movie

then the "protagonist" abruptly goes splat and we cut to a totally unconcerned techpriest checking his intel reports

[brittle salmon]

Wonderful

[vital barn]

this was back before the Cult Mech release so the idea was that the Skitarii were literally an army without HQs, they just got +1W on their sarges and all the tech-priests were at home throwing buffs and playing Dawn of War IRL

this didn't last very long and 40k Admech has been intermittedly screwed over the arbitrary faction divide between the two halves of their units ever since

[brittle salmon]

yeah

[thin ibex]

I still remember my first encounter with skitarii, was I think in Titanicus?

It was the one where they were mind linked to the titan and were roided out and painted up to be a scary as possible

And instinctively maneuvered around the titan steps

[pale narwhal]

I love the skitarii and tech-priest books tbh

very fun for what they are

[vital barn]

Titanicus is probably my favourite 40k book out of all of them

absolutely nailed it

[pale narwhal]

I do prefer the old skitarii that were less regimented though. more individually roided/cybered up killing machines

[vital barn]

the old Skitarii were more baby Myrmidons, yeah

only baby myrmidons, since it's "I have a grenade launcher" not "I have two rotary bolters and a power axe" but still huge lads

[pale narwhal]

some of them had power axes and rotary bolters

But generally yeah it was more 'we have MIU-linked grenade launchers, fully-automatic shotguns with chain bayonets, and a bunch of combat augments'

which fucked immensely

(shout out to the dark heresy admech combat shotgun that was fully-automatic. What an obscene weapon)

[novel cove]

HRT is awesome

[crimson solar]

idgi they both look like fun minis

[crimson solar]

I blame peter turbo. who arguably at the time was the least demonic of them all.

[misty violet]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_1832_foot_artillery_sword The US military actually issued these! In emulation of the French version, which were nicknamed "Cabbage Choppers"

Alas, they're actually really not very big though. More a goofy mid 19th century neoclassical machete

[pastel rampart]

Apparently not terribly great for combat either but a sword is a sword and does as well on slavers as it does vegetation.

[west zealot]

Yeah if you want good for combat from that era, it's the pattern 1796 heavy calvary sword. Which isn't a subtle good for fencing sword, it's just "the handle can be used as knuckle dusters, the blade is a bludgeon, and you can put a chisel point on it to make it an excellent thrusting weapon. Subtle and good for fancy swordsmanship? Lol no. Will let you cleave down through someone's head, up through someone else's jawbone after the jerk tries to lance you, and then down through another guy's head (this actually happened).

Just a horrible brute of a weapon. I love it

[pastel rampart]

I always loved cavalry swords.

[past sphinx]

The M 1832 is also the sword I most associate with the ankmorpork city watch It's the ideal "well we need these people to technically have swords but they're probably not gonna be used as swords or for much sword fighting but they do need swords so get them cheap and make them look nice enough in"

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGV9FshTK8

[jaunty dawn]

Functionable

[rocky shale]

Lotta death guard on miniswap wow

[upper bluff]

It's awesome how if you're willing to wait you can get minis for a discount from Meta chasers lol

[paper bluff]

Painting deathguard is fun

[sour sequoia]

Bought 8k points of GSC for under a grand from everybody else in the state ragequitting the army

[valid brook]

Sharpe detected

[upper bluff]

I got my Admech and Knight from someone who built Knights of the Cog then quit at the start of 10th which isn't quite meta chasing but it's the same rules related quitting

And like I get it

But come on rules are temporary plastic is forever

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/kierongillen.bsky.social/post/3lwvbkrf55s2x

Kieron Gillen (@kierongillen.bsky.social)

It’s an unimaginable amount of money. He could have bought two - maybe even three - Warhammer armies.

-# Jamie McKelvie (@mckelvie.bsky.social)
Imagine what good could have been done with all the money Mark Zuckerberg has personally wasted

Likes

511

Bluesky · Aug 21, 2025, 6:05 AM

[charred bridge]

Fully painted, all of them

[west zealot]

Partly, but I believe I actually came across it when I was researching swords of that era, and it was a good fit for a monster hunting knight-errant

[valid brook]

It truly is such a cool sword imho

[uneven ember]

Kieron is great

one of the semi-revelations in Wicked + Divine is that Baphomet is actually Nergal
but in his mortal life he was a Warhammer nerd

so he decided to be Baphomet instead

[sour sequoia]

Post nerf deathguard: 30 wound brick of 2+/4++ assault flamers with stealth and lone op that kill tanks and greater demons

The people selling right now are funny as shit

Half the army still needs increases/new rules

[thin ibex]

leave it to warhammer grognards to be like "oh a nerf? If my army is not as good as before, it's trash now."

[pale narwhal]

yeah the real balancing is going to happen in the september slate

this was just the points and its honestly a slap on the wrist for how dominant they are

[upper bluff]

People reacting to any nerf as if it is the end of their thing is as old as balance changes

Some guy probably showed up to the raiding party with an iron spear instead of a bronze one and all the bronze guys probably reacted like they'll never get a kill again

"what is this power creep metal forging crap"

[sour sequoia]

This army is still Ape Mode I think you may have to quit 40k if you can’t press W on super custodes post nerf

Its just ‘you have to press W’ instead of also being the best vehicles and indirect fire

[thin ibex]

god forbid you actually play the game

[junior summit]

also because if you're using it you're a cavalryman and by god are you going to demonstrate to those infantrymen why light cavalry is scary

[west zealot]

(that's the other reason I picked it for the knight errant character, she rides a horse-thing, it makes sense her go-to sword would be a cav sword. And that she also has a good bolt action gun, a spear, etc. No point being a dumbarse with hunting)

[mental birch]

Wait why were people trying to metachase with GSC

points at the 2 kinds of GSC players sign

[sour sequoia]

Index GSC was nasty work, same with immediately post codex

It is, always has been, and likely always will be given trends, a stupid learning curve

It’s been over 50 games for me so far and I’m like, Okay.

On top of being one of the most expensive and most demanding hobby-wise

[vital barn]

the Sharpe special also has the redeeming feature of looking really neat, even if it is essentially a big cleaver

I should try to dig up a Big Ugly Sword for my world eater HQ's Paragon Blade, he sure as hell isn't using a nice elegant sabre, but most warhammer swords are already huge

[sour sequoia]

People thought they’d be easier to learn than they were by far is the real answer, and no longer having the bullshit ‘may just spawn 2500 additional points in a 2000pt game’ turned people off

[mental birch]

I am always aware that GSC is a nightmare to learn lol

[sour sequoia]

I dunno what people dunno but yeah, fair

GSC amounts to people either know:

A) nothing
B) its hard to learn and paint and nobody plays em its so cool to see you do it (im about to thrash someone)
C) yeah I know all about it (false)
D) oh you’re playing Host and how many neophyte bricks? (IM GONNA LOSE)

[mental birch]

me: Are you type 1 or 2

😛

[sour sequoia]

I dont even know what the types are

[mental birch]

1. just looses
2. galaxy brain 4d chess positioning

:p

[brittle salmon]

2

Gyr is good

[mental birch]

Yeah

[sour sequoia]

Gonna be an extremely funny list I play into at the RTT tomorrow

[vital barn]

I think triple Lord of Skulls was actually a very silly formation back in 7th

incredible if that's a tourney list these days

[mild glen]

Finally got my shit together and wrote a 40 ducat trench crusade list

[tepid stratus]

40 ducats is like 2 yeomen

[thin ibex]

I respect the hustle

[reef pagoda]

new friends, i didnt think i would go for a crypt horror from the flayers box but i like his cool stone

i hate models that stand on one leg when gluing

[soft willow]

Sometimes you just gotta pick up a chunk of rock you know?

[dense sedge]

I like the flesh eater courts, they got such a glowup. Went from probably the worst faction to one of my favorites

[pulsar cairn]

Do they perhaps....eat flesh?

[paper bluff]

Well they're quiet mad in the crazy way

The guts wig judge is a great mini

[sour sequoia]

Put some respect on my colleague the estimable Grand Justice Gormayne

[tepid stratus]

The admirable Grand Justice is a hero to us all

[rocky shale]

I have a friend interested in getting into admech, could anyone who knows about the faction toss together like a generalist 1k list to try on tts?

[tepid stratus]

Umm how fat is there wallet?

Admech is pretty much the most expensive faction to play

[rocky shale]

I know

This is on TTS

Maybe don't make it all chicken walkers lmao

[tepid stratus]

But IMO I'd go heavy on bots

[rocky shale]

Yeah I'd want to include some of them as a sampler

[tepid stratus]

Just good value in castelan robots

[rocky shale]

Probably haloscreed

[tepid stratus]

Some Vanguard's are a good intro unit

Kataphrons are never a bad idea

[rocky shale]

Yeah I just don't know how the faction plays so making a balanced list is rough

[tepid stratus]

I guess the real decision point is whether to run Cawl or a generic dominus

[upper bluff]

Haloscreed is a great detachment because it basically fixes a lot of the weak spots in admechs roster

Makes Plasma Destroyers not such a gamble, buffs Castellans, and the detachment rule in general is awesome

Anyways my advice for Admech (the way I play them) is to have 4 Castellans with fists, 4 battle line (Cawl included), and either infiltrators or the new servitor guys for objectives

[tepid stratus]

Battle clade are cool objective monkeys

I'm not an admech player but play against them frequently

[rocky shale]

Any ranged anti tank?

[upper bluff]

Plenty, Ironstriders, dune crawlers, Scorpius disintegrators, and breachers are all good

[rocky shale]

Oh I meant for your list you were mentioning above

[upper bluff]

Oh I use breachers

9 to be exact

Probably too little but I like it

And Cawl's solar thingy is okay too

[rocky shale]

How's this for 1k

[upper bluff]

I think it looks good

Maybe replace the heavy phosphor on the robots with flamers though

Overwatch is really good

Also huge advice is to never underestimate the Skitarii arc rifle

Devastating wounds and anti vehicle means you can get some great damage without saves

[tepid stratus]

They're worthless until you roll into a knight matchup where suddenly their unprecedented value

[upper bluff]

I disagree, obviously they won't be game winning against most armies but strength 8 still means they're pretty good against infantry too

[tepid stratus]

I don't find it as valuable when radium rifles are already anti infantry 4+

[upper bluff]

Fair enough I guess

[tepid stratus]

But that's perhaps skewed by the amount of -1 to wound in my local meta

[upper bluff]

Oh that would do it lol

My experience with the radium rifles is getting really hyped to use them against grey knights and then rememberijg 2+ saves

Although this was before the army rule buffs so maybe that matchup is better now

[sour sequoia]

1k tends to be a lot of just skewing for hullspam or bodyspam

Anti-vehicle dev wounds is gonna be goated for whatever stupid tank someone tries to cram

[tepid stratus]

Realistically a properly kitted vanguard or ranger unit will be surprisingly efficient in a haloscreed list at such low points

[sour sequoia]

85pts for 10 guys with Real Guns is good stuff

[upper bluff]

Skitarii guns are peak

[sour sequoia]

I pay approx same for what is essentially Abysmal Dogshit pre bajillion buffs and character attaching in GSC

[tepid stratus]

The value drops a bit at higher points where opponents have more redundancy or defensive options but damn if it ain't a scary thing to point at an expensive unit in a 1000pt game

Cute t6 infantry

Shame I wound them on 4s with a unit a third their cost

[upper bluff]

I'm probably the only person on the planet who is totally happy with Admech right now. Like I can understand things could be a lot better but I think it does a good job of being "better tech then the rest of the imperium mixed with weird gadgets"

The only thing that bothers me right now is that most of the detachments still suck

But haloscreed is sooooooooo good

[deft crest]

Does anyone know if Chaos Demons have crusade rules

[tranquil ivy]

Chaos Daemons do not iirc, but folks have definitely taken up the mantle and made their own

[deft crest]

Mmmm gotcha

Ill have to hunt some down

[tranquil ivy]

https://legendhammer.notion.site/Chaos-Daemons-edbba109824d4ea9bec8c019663ba6d9

Unsure if this is any good, but it might work!

[deft crest]

Tyty!

[sour sequoia]

Crusade rules come with the codex, so I think its the only thing missing from daemons’ effective Free Codex this ed

[mild glen]

I may or may not have typo'd 700 into 40, somehow.

[pastel rampart]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/727593559573659732/1408680102019076136/f115cebf77534e980c49ed86c29b75ab.jpg?ex=68aa9f14&is=68a94d94&hm=60b12dfc8177cdcf8215694c75b36e1ad7c14e209f93b512f18716027ba37326&format=webp&width=596&height=846&

[past sphinx]

Workin on da MoP bucket

[gray basalt]

It's true!

[pulsar cairn]

is warhammer wiki low quality?

[rocky shale]

Yes

[tardy vault]

fandom wikis that exist in opposition to another wiki typically are fucking awful

[pulsar cairn]

[pastel rampart]

Lexicanum aggressively curates and demands sources, Fandom will scrap and shove AI slop in there.

[pulsar cairn]

Ew

[thin ibex]

yeah lexicanum is my go to

its not complete often

and lags behind current usually, but generally things are sourced

[remote wharf]

Kinda fucked up that it's misinformation is whey we call these Saturnine.

[thin ibex]

still feels like vulkan felt like space marined didn't have big enoug shoulders

i also feel like punching with this armor on is rediculous

[pulsar cairn]

is saturnine horus heresy only?

[remote wharf]

Yes

The only things you can use in both 40k and 30k are some vehicles, and even then most are legends now I think.

[raw vessel]

I think there are some pre-primarus marks of armor you can use in 30k as well

[remote wharf]

With specific rules I should say, most people would probably be okay with you using 30k minis for similar enough things, like 30k rhinos as regular ones, mk6 tactical squads as 40k tactical squads, ect.

I won't lie and say I haven't thought about buying say, 30k night lords and running them as Chaos Space Marines.

[upper bluff]

I know a lot of people use the 30k Leman Russ in 40k

[pulsar cairn]

Some 30k legion styles just look cooler

[upper bluff]

To be clear I meant the tank lol

Realized that in 30k that's a man

[pulsar cairn]

i know what u meant

my comment was directed towards slash!

[pale narwhal]

I use mk6 marines as intercessors for my carcharodons. All types (assault, jump, regular), everything is wysiwyg, and resin base toppers make the height difference negligible

[remote wharf]

That's fair

[charred bridge]

Also legit fan theories make it into fandom

[remote wharf]

See my mention of Saturnine.

[paper bluff]

https://youtu.be/weRj6pjxJR8?si=ruJhlCe_Kz5ronsG

There is a whole vid about the misinformation basically it thought of as true

From the not wiki

A great vid

[pulsar cairn]

i remember ! we had a conversation about the lamenters stuff!

[upper canopy]

Snipe and Wib are good i say with no bias

[past sphinx]

only in warhammer would someone make a 44 minute video about how something technically is just a name assigned by the community to an otherwise nameless bit of wargear

[paper bluff]

https://youtu.be/T-0qwQ1NTvM?si=1OHQD7ta_yC3fLqt

[desert jay]

Does the recent stuff not make the name official?

[past sphinx]

sorry i was refering to the near hour long video luetin did a few years back

[desert jay]

Also no Star Wars and Star Trek nerds would make this sort of video too

[desert jay]

Oh I didn’t realize it wasn’t a recent video

[remote wharf]

There are two 40K wikis and they work like the heads of Kairos Fateweaver.

[charred bridge]

Also only in 40k is a 51 minute fan animation consided a short movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN0WMa2ayS8&pp=ygUUd2FyaGFtbWVyIHNob3J0IGZpbG0%3D

[runic swallow]

It’s not feature length, so it’s not necessarily wrong

[desert jay]

Yeah that still might be “Short Form” when it comes to TV/movie/etc awards categories

[floral herald]

Feature length has a few definitions but 51 minutes is not feature length by most of em

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386423192685641728/1408935204176924672/image.png?ex=68ab8ca9&is=68aa3b29&hm=bfc83f339ab53e1b48270e35ac986f385f2e21814130b9db005126e683af3398&

[pastel rampart]

The notion of how long a feature film should be has varied according to time and place. According to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences,[2][3] the American Film Institute[4] and the British Film Institute,[5] a feature film runs for more than 40 minutes, while SAG-AFTRA says that a feature's running time is 60 minutes or longer.[6][7] The Centre National de la Cinématographie in France defines it as a 35 mm film longer than 1,600 metres (5,200 ft), which is exactly 58 minutes and 29 seconds for sound films

Huh!

[floral herald]

I like the French one

[runic swallow]

Huh, usually feature length in modern terms usually means about 80-90 minutes+

Or at least in casual use

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1408988685948424282/bafkreihgwg6vvsjm75uv2lbnkgqxzd7dyykfapczb6uc6hyhtwly4gmzz4.jpg?ex=68abbe78&is=68aa6cf8&hm=9f2801d0e66418aaa2f3b666b2d75271ed364be7791ac33a87cdd7f17f342e85&

[soft willow]

Honestly I think 1 is the only seat you walk away from.

[tall depot]

if i'm in the airport and i see these dudes getting on my plane i am turning my ass around and waiting for the next flight

[soft willow]

Yeah but like what if you didn't see them get on the plane because it's your connecting flight and the previous flight was late and you're running on?

[tall depot]

1

all the other seats would get me killed

[charred bridge]

Why does emps have cat ears

[floral herald]

Why TF would you live at 1???

[tall depot]

it's his iron halo
but it does look like cat ears

[soft willow]

Gaz sitting with his best friend? You'll be fine.

[floral herald]

Anyway 4 is best you just offer to trade seats so they can play cards

[floral herald]

He is the size of a barge and canonically sits on people without looking

[charred bridge]

They're fighting still and you'll be used as a hostage

So he has to suffer when you die

[soft willow]

Not if you wear purple.

[charred bridge]

Ghazgul loves testing him

That's only for Orks

[tired cairn]

Are we sure the plane is even going to make it?

[soft willow]

I mean in all honesty no, but I think we assume they're all keeping it to not blowing up the plane.

[runic swallow]

6, they’ll either both kill each-other before takeoff, or they’ll be silent the whole flight

[upper canopy]

4 so I can turn to the left and end that man once and for all.

[rotund flax]

I think 5 is your best chance at survival

But also, different plane

[remote wharf]

Even if they don't talk the pure spiteful hate energy emerging form Perturabo would kill a mortal I'm pretty sure.

[past sphinx]

ill just how him pictures of my models for the entire flight

mans a tabletop gamer

[tepid stratus]

Shit I've got a construction background, between tabletop and concrete I can keep both talking if Dorn isn't just gonna raw dog the flight

[runic swallow]

Yeah or ask about what his favorite wargame ruleset is

[mild glen]

Three. I have the two most fun primarchs that do the most efficient murder like, right there.

I don't recognize the guy on the right, though. Is that supposed to be Lorgar? I'll hold him down while Raven Raven guts 'im.

[rocky shale]

By a stroke of baffling luck I managed to find 2400 points of SM/deathwatch + some paints and a SM codex at a yard sale for $150 today.

Going to sell some to our local DW player and give the rest to a friend who's been on the fence about starting 40k as a Christmas gift or something

[tardy vault]

some people really don't understand just how expensive minis actually are

like the fools they are they assume they're reasonable

[paper bluff]

Would Rogal and Pert fight each other? Pert wants to prove he's better than rogal but that does mean killing

The funny part, being that if perturabo became better than rogal by being a better dad cause emotions and caring about his space. Marines not exactly a strong suit of rogal dorn. Rogal is kinda the ultimate stern dad that knows and expects much of you

[tired cairn]

🤔 which Primarch is the best (or least bad) dad? And who is the best dad in 40k in general?

[paper bluff]

Best dad in 40k or in 30k?

[tired cairn]

40k. But if it differs I'm a bit interested

[paper bluff]

In 40k it's the lion

In 30k it was Sanguinius

Sanguineus literally bowed to his marines and pledged himself to them rather than the other way around

[tired cairn]

Oh, yeah. Though I feel like we have to exclude Sanguineus because he has to be the super good special boy for when he dies for plot reasons lol

[paper bluff]

On the traitor side of things....
40k: Perty
30k: magnus

[tired cairn]

The Lion definitely wins the "Most Improved over 10k years" award though

Perty? Huh

[paper bluff]

Oh then Jhagatai

[tired cairn]

Magnus up until he sulks in his castle when the space wolves attack

[paper bluff]

The khan is a more well adjusted Leman when it comes to loosing his sons

Russ is that guy that's at the job that is buddies with everyone and pals around then gets promoted and still tries to have that pal-ing around even though everything is different now and gets sad things are different

The khan is like that first part but when he gets promoted he knows the responsibility of his position and is sad about the loss of that palling around but values that time in the past

Russ would get awkward. Khan would smile and nod

[floral herald]

I think best overall might actually be Guilliman

[paper bluff]

Overall across the 2? Yeah

As in every thing, generalist decent

[thin ibex]

Best dad? Yeah between lion and roboute, it's roboute

[remote wharf]

Installed FIrestrom over Kaurava and did up some simple color schemes. We got the Sons of Blood and The Heralds of the Angel, A chaos version of the Sons of Blood (I have a spicy lore idea for my custom chapter), and The Ozynkhan Dynasty.

[uneven ember]

didn't Cranky Pete decimate his own Legion?

[main pagoda]

several times

[uneven ember]

like, in the literal sense, have his guys draw lots to see which 10% gets executed

[main pagoda]

along those lines

[runic swallow]

I still think that’s a really dumb lore bit

Especially since he does it on meeting them for not being “good enough”

[main pagoda]

it does fit him as a person

[runic swallow]

It just has always felt to me like the most lame “loooook he’s eeeeeevil”

[runic swallow]

And I’d argue it doesn’t just because it’s such a stupid thing to do as a new commander

“Sure I’m mildly disappointed in their record, let me destroy their combat effectiveness further”

[main pagoda]

perty is a good commander subject to mood swings enough to make a high school girl blush

[runic swallow]

It just reads as such a clear example of edginess for edginess’ sake rather than something that actually makes sense

[main pagoda]

so im more than able to believe that he sees this new legion lacking compared to some idea of perfection that he has of his legion

[past sphinx]

and thats a roman pratice and hes space greek!

[pine matrix]

Damn, maybe I should be using this to lab out new colour schemes

I hope there's colour customisation in DoW4

[remote wharf]

There's been one in every other dawn of war game, there's gonna army painter in DOW4.

Just hope it's more like space marine 2's then the other dawn of war games tho.

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/g9yodfir/sunday-preview-dare-you-enter-the-tomb-world/

Some cool stuff

[pulsar cairn]

Cyan now that u got emperor's children codex, what else u looking foward too?

[sour sequoia]

Folks the new votann bots may actually be my worst nightmare

Overwatch on 4+ with plasmas and precision

The cult is in shambles

[past sphinx]

i wonder what the plan was for the MoP originally

like he got greater possessed but those are gone now and these days hes like a sorta sidegrade

[past sphinx]

moreover god the Cabal detachment for CSM is very odd

boy i hope you want to run 2-3 demon princes because csm aint a shootin army

[west zealot]

Other than necrontyr culture is a bag of dicks, and the ctan are even bigger bags of dicks, are we ever given a reason why they screwed over so much of the population with the biotransference?

My personal assumption is that it just gave more nom noms to the Ctan, and it was easier to get this by giving the higher ups good bodies

[past sphinx]

the peon does not need to think to work, it is the burden of the great to spend time thinking

[finite compass]

This was also, culturally, the thing they had been collectively searching for for their entire existence

Or at least sold as that

and even then acceptance wasn't universal

I think it was very much "I, the Silent King, have made this decision, so we're all going through with it."

[west zealot]

Oh, yeah, it's just there's doesn't seem to be much justification for why things are so stratified, beyond cultural. Which is probably enough

[finite compass]

And once you have a solid core of actual Necrons that are enslaved to the C'tan's will, then hunting down and forcing everybody else to go through with it becomes trivial

a favorite random related lore blurb

The Necrontyr didn't call themselves Necrontyr

Nobody, not even the Necrons remembers what the actual name was

Necrontyr just means 'Before the Necrons'

[sour sequoia]

I bet the deceiver knows

[finite compass]

He also derives great enjoyment in giving the wrong answers

[sour sequoia]

Undoubtedly

[finite compass]

"What were we called?"
"Gary."

[floral herald]

I remember an excerpt I read on Reddit about a necron lord lamenting that bio transference had permanently locked in Necron class differences

[charred bridge]

Souls are tasty to them as energy beings.

Part of waging war on literally everyone else after the Ctan learned this is to basically eat the souls of everything the Olds Ones made

[paper bluff]

Before being given bodies the C'tan were kinda chilling out eating star stuff

Do you know about the short story of scientists connecting a bunch of supercomputers across the universe with various things? And they're going to pose it the ultimate question, and the scientist turns it on And the question he asks is, 'is there a God?" and then the computer spits back the answer, "There is now." As the scientist has the horrible realization and tries to turn off the computer, but he cannot die to lighting strikes the off switch fusing it into position

Now imagine, if you were an energy being chilling eating the energy off of a star, and then suddenly a bunch of assholes give you a physical body and you have to deal with that, and then you find out that you have a baseline connection to the universe and have godly powers

The necrotyr kinda forced bodies and sentience upon the C'tan. The ultimate Frankenstein's monsters if you will

Oh and got them involved in their war

[west zealot]

I don't think there's any hard proof of that

[charred bridge]

The Ctan did like the physical bodies

It gave them desires and thoughts they never did before including a great hunger and thrill consuming or oppressing lesser beings.

Once given bodies they really didn't want to be separated from it, kind of hard to force them to keep the bodies considering they're masters of the materium and could destroy it and go back to solar parasites on a whim likely.

[west zealot]

Whatever the necrons did to the flayer really did fuck things up impressively it seems

(suppsoedly breaking the flayer delted something from reality. Which is amusing to say hte least)

[charred bridge]

Ctan got that "part of reality" aspect, you kill one and it messes materium up bad. A reason Silent King destroyed nearly all C'tan killers and broke them up instead

Which I find neat, ctan are basically gods in that theyre woven into reality

[west zealot]

Oh, yeah, i know, iam juist amused

[paper bluff]

Load bearing Dr. Manhattans of the 40k universe

[paper bluff]

And I'm not saying they didn't like the bodies. I'm saying getting a physical body changed them

[hardy harness]

How much do you lot reckon the Emperor would hate the t'au if he were still around

[jaunty dawn]

he basically met the tau

like not the tau

but dozens of societies like them

[hardy harness]

True

[jaunty dawn]

and his answer was always shoot them with gun

[hardy harness]

What was his deal with being so racist anyway

[charred bridge]

He wanted to be the sole authority to lead mankind as his plans hinge on him being the absolute ruler with no questioning cause of his plans, and didnt want to risk competing ideology

And xenophobia is a good tool to have everyone unite with him

Also when humanity was isolated by warp storms after DAoT many were conquered by xenos or became 2nd class citizens so easy to use that existing hatred

[hardy harness]

Good point, I forgot he was a hyperauthoritarian fascist dick

[deft crest]

Finally getting into a crusade with some local nerd friends

Ended up using the linked Daemon rules that were fan made

Realized "Oh damn lol this was def tuned around just running more than 1 god"

"Who would be so foolish as to just dedicate themselves to one dark god??"

[thin ibex]

I don't even think the emperor would hate the tau, I think the emperor would just kill them

For him it's simple, he needs to be in charge for his plan to come to fruition, he is not in charge of the Tau

[charred bridge]

Tau ideology is definitely more appealing to any post Old Night world, why he has to squash it if he wants to be the ideology.

It's just more efficient to murder

[rocky shale]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/8epcgs0h/pick-from-two-amazing-diorama-miniatures-by-subscribing-to-warhammer-this-year/

Damn I might need to subscribe

[mild glen]

We're all in agreement that the Necromancer is peak, right?

[deft crest]

Glad they get the big coat

[mild glen]

Reminder that this is the normal Necromancer sculpt

[south axle]

Normal sculpt feels like old style necromancer, from back when they were recluses, while the new one feels like a necromancer celebrated like a rockstar super villain

[soft willow]

So put a sick guitar in the new necromancer's hands is what I'm hearing?

[pastel rampart]

And a top hat.

[pulsar cairn]

That sure is an outfit

[deft crest]

https://tenor.com/view/darkstalkers-shredding-guitar-lord-raptor-zabel-gif-18172594

[floral herald]

https://youtu.be/7yQwtBtoB6Q?si=evOIl8NDXQdG4gVX

Malcador on the throne watching Horus and the Emperor fight

[charred bridge]

That one's guardsman, "whoa man I'm smelling red and tasting heresy, emps is gonna get hurt better do something whoops I'm in the way sorry-"

[past sphinx]

im amazed by how GW simply couldnt fucking fathom why people liked Ollonius and kept on trying to make him a super cool guy TM

like first just a random mook then a terminator then like an elite bodygaurd then a guy again then an immortal who fought alongside emps for a thousand years wielding a magic knife

[upper bluff]

At least its easy to retcon

[past sphinx]

theres also another guy named Ollanius Piers who died squaring up to angron

[charred bridge]

I thought the deal was whatever faction recalled the story was the one to insert themselves as the heroic sacrifice

[pulsar cairn]

Who's that?

[upper canopy]

Guy who interposed himself between the Emperor and Horus when the latter was gonna strike the former down

went from
Regular Guardsman
to Imperial Fist
to Custodes
to Immortal Man

[vital barn]

immortal man didn't apparently get back up, though

evidently horus has ghost-eating technique

[floral herald]

Yeah his ass got blasted by the Infinite Darkness Technique

Or something

[vital barn]

the big club of perpetuals who are introduced for one to three books and then die are collectively some of the most baffling horus heresy plot decisions

especially since they keep coming up with different ways to permakill them

[sour sequoia]

Perpetuals in general confound me

I guess the grey knights have one?

[vital barn]

like, who cares about this in any way, I'm here for bolter porn and space marine telenovela

[upper canopy]

Perpetuals are lame because there's no reason not to have other species be perpetuals

[floral herald]

Yeah perpetuals are just a

[vital barn]

Pius himself is vaguely fun in Know No Fear but that's about it

[jaunty dawn]

aren't the cabal all perpetuals

and all (but grammaticus) non human

[sour sequoia]

Yeah thats my thing too right is there’s good space for extremely long lived characters all over

This is the setting of corpse gods

[vital barn]

the concept is fine, the way they're used in the writing is the strangest thing

[floral herald]

I politely ignore it and move on

[sour sequoia]

But they keep doing like, time fuckery for CSM warbands

[vital barn]

why did we need 1d3 perpetuals as new characters just to explain how the Primarchs were scattered

[sour sequoia]

Gimme the 10,000 year old word bearer prophet

[vital barn]

that was fine to leave in the It Just Happened, Who Cares bucket

also why the Cabal

plot tumours go brrr

[still warren]

The one cabal assassin one was, but the actual cabal are an unnamed alien species that got destroyed in the great crusade

[sour sequoia]

Honestly didn’t know the cabal existed outside ‘told alpha legion to do the funny’

[hardy harness]

Y'know what I vaguely wanna write a story about

[sour sequoia]

Getting the sense its better that way

[hardy harness]

Big E subtly giving support to the t'au to fight the Imperium not because he likes them, but because at this point the Imperium's metasized into a horrible cancer and the only way to end it is to just burn it all down

Plans on using them to enact the destruction and then eliminate them once he regains some measure of power

[floral herald]

Yeah that sounds like a Certified Neoth Banger of a Plan

[vital barn]

they keep attempting to do Alpha Legion Deep Lore and honestly it never works because their whole bit is "what if this was another classic alpharius ruse"

so none of it sticks

especially "actually alpharius is dead for real, guys"

[hardy harness]

Nobody trusts Alpha Legion loredrops because their entire schtick just makes them the world's most unreliable narrators

You never know if they're bullshitting you about something

[junior robin]

what if we retconned Ollonius into "trazyn in bad human skin suit, trying to collect Horus"? 🤔

[upper canopy]

I'm kinda tired of Trazyn tbh

[vital barn]

other necrons should be allowed to do fun things

[bright dove]

The Infinite and the Divine specifically has Trazyn said things were too hot for him to show up at Terra at the end of the Horus Heresy. Otherwise he would have tried to get Emps and Horus at their last clash.

[soft willow]

Can you imagine the trouble it would have caused if he had?

[vital barn]

how many necrons were even awake for 30k?

I am behind on my cron lore

[upper canopy]

Less

[bright dove]

Way less. Trazyn is largely an exception

If memory serves, folks like The Storm Lord were asleep

[pastel rampart]

Silent King was off in deep space.

[bright dove]

There's Orikan, Trazyn, and a few people to keep bureaucracy going

Basically every excursion Trazyn drags more necrons into necessitates him waking up just a few of his resources so he doesn't get in trouble

Until the Silent King comes back and goes "All hands on deck now"

[thin ibex]

theres a triarch council online during 30k, so they observed the whole thing; but they werent participants or anything

iirc trazyn did leap in and zoink important folks during the heresy too

[soft willow]

Doesn't he have a pre-heresy clone of Fulgrim?

[pastel rampart]

Technically post-heresy because it didn't come out of the cloning tube until modern 40k.

Took 10k years to generate every luxurious lock of hair.

[soft willow]

Fabius gotta get a higher resolution clone printer.

[lament light]

Harrowmaster was good because part of the plot is the main character pointing out plotting for plotting’s sake is meaningless without action or a goal. And that the Imperium lies to itself every moment so deceit alone can’t destroy it. He even starts his speech with ‘I am not Alpharius’.

[sour sequoia]

It would help if they
A) gave him not dogshit rules
B) didn’t legends like, everybody

[charred bridge]

I wish we could get more on other Necrons there's like a handful of named ones with importance give us stories from their perspective

Especially petty conflicts one, what made infinite and the divine so interesting to me was how 2 very valid (mostly) and rational but diametrically opposed Necrons with millenias of life experience to reinforce their viewpoints interact with other Necrons.

Give me front row seats to the longest and pettiest feuds of the Necrons that hold them back

[west zealot]

Solomon is just a very fun character. As is his psyker buddy

who i like went awol on the imperium because an inquistor got massviely lazy and just went "Eh, exterminatus the genestealer cult"

[brittle salmon]

Dawn of War Dark Crusade gave us that, we got Eliphas the Inheritor, the actual best Word Bearers character (until Dawn of War 2 made him much less cool)

My respect for Relic will forever be less for their decisions to a) make him part of the Black Legion instead, b) make him play second fiddle to Cool New Guy and c) not recast Paul Dobson as his VA

[upper canopy]

He wasn't second fiddle tho

[brittle salmon]

Everyone remembers Araghast far more from Chaos Rising

Even if Eliphas takes over in the end that's still playing second fiddle to the cooler guy in the long run to me

[sour sequoia]

Do I pick up a death guard army for cheap and use it as basing gore

[upper canopy]

As a certified 40k meme machine i cannot agree with this

Araghast's most memed line was "ELIPHAS, OPEN THE PORTAL"

[west zealot]

It could be worse. It could be metal boxes. teh cowards. teh foolz.

[tardy vault]

That is one reason I'm looking forward to the next update for AoS

when the nerfs hit soooo many cheap Witch Aelves

[rocky shale]

Damn it's a good time to like death guard

(but not already own them)

[sour sequoia]

The army is probably still top 3 is the funniest bit

So much of the book is still monstrously undercosted and full of sick tech for being custodes level statsticks

[pale narwhal]

Yep

Deathshrouds are still great despite points nerfs

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/596197650332778498/1409695459102163064/FB_IMG_1741806754315.png?ex=68ae50b4&is=68acff34&hm=c02a34a7ea6b8154a411d8555b97f44209473732198cc128af84526f35d2edfa&

[charred bridge]

Nature is healing

[mental birch]

Which one?

[deft crest]

https://legendhammer.notion.site/Chaos-Daemons-edbba109824d4ea9bec8c019663ba6d9?pvs=25

Lemme know if you found cooler ones

Becuase like i said im only going to be using a 4th of the rules here unless suddenly they release new daemon units

Or a soulgrinder has a grossly strong god alignment

Or mutalith vortex beast is chaos daemon playable