Warhammer and Such

[vital barn]

I think you can actually get 8 back a round

Archmagi have Battlesmith (4)

[floral herald]

40K numbers strike again lol

I think the great crusade is the worst offender tbh

The total strength of the legions is like roughly the battle of Kursk

I don’t care how super they are you can’t conquer the galaxy with those numbers lol

[mental birch]

Yeah but archmsgi I wanna be a different cult

Haaha

[brittle salmon]

Do Iron Warriors have a good Legion rule

[floral herald]

They have that sick as fuck “shoot that guy” rule for duels

https://tenor.com/view/brad-pitt-fury-movie-shoot-that-guy-gif-8829002926137263043

[main pagoda]

Imperial army did/does most of the heavy lifting, and boy do i wish we got more IA books

[brittle salmon]

Oh yeah that's Perty's thing

[floral herald]

The numbers for them are also whack

[main pagoda]

it is like trillions of people

[pastel rampart]

"Many billions" of people, but yeah it still doesn't make sense.

[floral herald]

Yeah this is still way too low

[mental birch]

Enooope

I just read feedback

ooof

nopeeee

[tired cairn]

I'm sure it checks out if planets just accept their fate after a few high intensity skirmishes involving a couple hundred dudes

[tepid stratus]

Also most planets are like one settlement resource extraction worlds

[floral herald]

I mean it’s like for some back of the envelope math

Let’s say there’s 10 million planets in the imperium

[vital barn]

ah, Reassemble is 1/turn/unit, so sadly capped at 3

but you do get Prime Specimens for some truly cracked out Ursarax

[floral herald]

And on average they’re as militarized as earth today (~27 million soldiers)

[vital barn]

or a huge unit of W2 Thralls, I guess

[floral herald]

That’s like 270 trillion soldiers

[vital barn]

hah

an entire divisio of tiny Pertys

[main pagoda]

considering there was about 4k EF probably not to far off

[floral herald]

It’s just several oom bigger than anything mentioned yeah

Ultimately not too far off in the grand scheme of things

[main pagoda]

I think the more impressive thing is making enough ships

[junior robin]

finally, the arboreal abbots primaris chaplain

[vital barn]

Lotara Sarrin's HH3 statblock has an orbital strike that casually flattens space marine platoons, they should really kidnap more ship captains if they can do that

sadly I can't put her in an allied detachment and provide my mechanicum with comically large guns

[tired cairn]

Hmm, even if they are super peaceful, you need to knock off a lot of orders of magnitude to make it work

[thin ibex]

Iirc Leman got deep into some Wyrd/ destiny/fate shit for a bit at the end there right?

How wild would it be for Leman to return wrestling with a part of him aligned with tzeentch?

[main pagoda]

yeah he took the 13th great company in the warp to go chase down peeps, the whole wyrd thing doesnt really match with tzeetch cause muh world spirt

[junior robin]

also we all know rune priests dont get their powers from the warp so why would Leman?

[thin ibex]

Yeah but "Fateweaver", "Changer of Ways", "Fatecaster" etc etc etc

Some elements of tzeentch are inextricably linked to aspects of destiny and fate

[junior robin]

now I can't stop imagining Leman just being a upgrade sprue for Magnus

[main pagoda]

yeah but as far as 40k is concerned the whole fenris stuff is devoid from the warp and warp gods at large

[rocky shale]

Leman russ as a guiliman upgrade sprue that just gives him a 3 wolf moon tshirt

[main pagoda]

leman coming back with some more wulfen like SW models would be sick

[remote wharf]

I will always maintain that if Leman returns he should be a fucked up werewolf man. The Wulfen Alpha even.

[upper canopy]

Correct

Bloodborne monster

[upper bluff]

It would be very disappointing if he came back from the Warp completely normal

[junior robin]

Magnus had just put him in a 24 hour time loop for all these years

[remote wharf]

Him and Corvus as loyalist demon primarchs basically.

[upper bluff]

I wonder if they'll be more monstrous or more misunderstood

Like would Leman be a werewolf that eats raw meat but is still loyal or is he gonna be completely fine mentally

And the inquisition would be stalking him waiting for a slip up

[deft crest]

corvus just starts hording shiney shit

otherwise normal

normal for a bird demon

[remote wharf]

He turns into a swarm of things that are shaped like ravens sometimes but he's fine.

[upper bluff]

Perfectly well adjusted just don't feed him after midnight, get him wet, or flash him with bright lights

[remote wharf]

But yeah, I think The Lion and Guilliman would come to blows of wither or not Wulfen Leman is still their brother or just a warp monster now, could be very interesting.

[main pagoda]

first part is also just normal space wolves lmao

[upper bluff]

Yeah I realized as I said it that would be completely normal lol

Leman returns and asks for a steak well-done this causes a massive scandal within the chapter

[remote wharf]

Also like. Regular Space Marines can eat brains to get memories. So it's not that strange for them.

[upper bluff]

Someone needs to teach Space Marines how to not be such freaks

[thin ibex]

I think itd be less interesting for leman to come back as a viking lion el

and more interesting to come back fucked up

even though i do wish they could settle that rivalry for once and for all

[upper bluff]

Yeah Lion El already fills the cool niche of returning more mature in mentality and age

Let Leman come back fucked up

[main pagoda]

well we know from ashes of prospero that alot of the 13th great company are wulfen so wouldn't expect him to come back completely normal

[thin ibex]

its also like lion el is, mechanically, just a direct combat beast that is highly resilient

Leman should occupy a similar monstrous but different niche

[upper bluff]

I mean mechanically I'm sure the lack of a shield and the ability to literally teleport would differentiate them enough

Although The Lions teleport thing is new for the datasheet

[main pagoda]

Give him the "fuck horus" spear again

[thin ibex]

maybe? I'm more looking at how both Lion and Bobby G are both big monsters but feel very different. Narratively, Lion and Leman are apex warriors who's whole schtick is being master combatants, which if translated to the tabeltop, would lead to some boring overlap

despite how on-brand it would be

[main pagoda]

overlap is fine because they are in two different armies

We have overlap between fulgrim and angron both being combat monsters doesnt really cause any issues

[thin ibex]

thats kinda what im talking about actually, tabeltop vibes, fulgrim and angy have distinct identities despite operating within the same niche

thats what i would want for leman

[main pagoda]

I think you are going to have that even with normal leman, you have the knightly lion and then this feral murderball that is leman russ

[charred bridge]

Most lore accurate GW number

For reference that's more guardsman than atoms in the galaxy several times over

[remote wharf]

They're not orbiting, they're on patrol.

[thin ibex]

administratum massaged those numbers a little

[charred bridge]

They learned from cadia if the planet broke before the guard then make a planet out of guardsman

I also love how ork presence is still "low"

[thin ibex]

after seeing hte uplifting primer, im so sure every planet is marked as low ork presence no matter what

"Sure we're committing a trillion soldiers, but ork presence is definitely still low"

"Oh man, 3 space marine chapters are fully involved? Ork presence still low"

[soft willow]

40k numbers are so off because the Administratum both keeps records on vellum and will cook the books to look more important.

[charred bridge]

Cognitor says it's like a million dead now leave me alone I'm doing sacred rites

[thin ibex]

truth is no one in administratum does math, its just ballpark figures all the way down

[charred bridge]

It reminds me of a fan movie about the krieg something and the tech priest uses tally marks to count the dead which is cinematic af but also that's definitely something for a servitor and also tally marks when you're dealing with billions of deaths is wild.

But I headcanon they use tally marks and just eyeball it cause no one but tech priests can read tally marks and tech priests do not care about counting fleshies, they want to get back to the machine spirits

[upper canopy]

Tally marks per thousand

[thin ibex]

"how many guards?"
'I dunno, like bajillion."
"Ok how do I write that?"

[runic swallow]

“Just bonk the random number generator servitors on the head until it spits out a number”

Literally, because the ticker tape machine is where his jaw used to be

[thin ibex]

"Is it OK if the report says to send only 10 guys? It was supposed to be 100,000 but we ran out of quill ink."

Yeah just send it, we have a mountain of work to do

[charred bridge]

You mean the computational oracle cognitors

[paper bluff]

I wonder if it's still cannon that the largest mass murderer of the imperium is that administratum adept

[pulsar cairn]

Is Bile actually aligned to anyone?

The way he talks makes me think he's just doing his own thing

[pastel rampart]

He's aligned with himself.

Bile is very mercenary who will sell his services to most anyone.

[pulsar cairn]

Neat

Also

Should i get eisenhorn first book or ciaphas cain book "the traitor's hand"?

[finite compass]

Depends

Do you want grimdark detective work, or relatively light-hearted wacky hijinks?

[pulsar cairn]

detective work sounds really cool.....

But i also like a more light hearted story

I think i'll flip a coin

Is eisenhorn giga depressing?

Or is it more cool than it is depressing?

[runic swallow]

Not giga-depressing

It’s also one of the best 40k series

[pulsar cairn]

If not giga depressing then i think i'll go with that one

Like ciaphas cain is cool but i never read eisenhorn before, and i only hear good things about it!

[runic swallow]

Lot of dramatic “dude, step out of the way of the train, you can just take a step, c’mon man you have to be able to see the train coming”

[pulsar cairn]

Does it matter which book i get first? I was thinking of getting the "xenos" book

[runic swallow]

It does, it’s a trilogy

Xenos is first

[pulsar cairn]

Ooh

Ok! Thanks for the clarifications!

[runic swallow]

It’s definitely much more serious than Caine

[pulsar cairn]

as long as it aint Giga depressing i think im cool with that

[runic swallow]

I guess it also depends how you define that

[pulsar cairn]

Are all of these books Canon to 40k?

[runic swallow]

Yeah

As much as anything is

[pulsar cairn]

i think the way i define that is when things are too much focused on the misery of 40k

[main pagoda]

thats just 40k essentially

[runic swallow]

I would say the kind of misery in Eisenhorn is the kind of slow moving train wreck that you absolutely see coming but can’t stop

[pulsar cairn]

Yeah but sometimes we can have it more focused on the spooky aspects such as warhammer horror or the action or mistery!

[runic swallow]

It’s tragic in the more traditional sense

[pulsar cairn]

I think i would like that

[runic swallow]

But yeah they’re quite good

[paper bluff]

He has a whole consortium aligned with him. It's a group of apothecaries

The bile books are very good. The infinite and divine is my number 1 recommendation though

[undone latch]

Has anyone else tried out the new Warhammer Fantasy books?

Made a random rolled character

Bretonnian courtier that thanks to some random rolls I wound up a wall of muscle and toughness

He also was born crooked and with a deformity so we just joked that he was immediately banished from Bretonnia as a kid and is running his dad's estates in Talebecland

[main pagoda]

4E?, its pretty good

[undone latch]

I think it's that. The cubicle 7 one?

I'm giving it a go with some friends, the DM is a big Warhammer fantasy nerd.

He said it's very good to maybe play a Border Princes campaign because it lets you build areas up more and has a bit more of that sort of play

[vital barn]

so the new HH Solar Aux get a) a cohort trait and b) a reaction themed after each legion, that can apparently be allied to each

but if I'm reading this right, there's nothing stopping me taking my pick of the 18 Legiones Auxilia types for my Mech army, I don't have any version of [Legiones Astartes] at all

[main pagoda]

yeah the border princes and the outskirts of the empire are probably the best places to base it

[undone latch]

We're doing a little one show then looking at a border princes longer campaign

It's interesting to be a Courtier who starts with a pretty good weapon/toughness situation

[brittle salmon]

Out of curiosity, could you post the Legion reactions?

[undone latch]

We were expecting me to be a turnip farmer who ran away from Brettonia and suddenly I was a gold class courtier...

[charred bridge]

Votann are funny little guys, love how the cores were only made for mining but they're basically baymax'd to run a society

Also waiting decades for some responses from failing ones and getting "could you repeat that original question I didnt understand it" is funny too

[vital barn]

each of them is a whole page, so no, but there are many fun fluffy ones

[main pagoda]

our party is made up of an wood elf archer( daring today), a 3rd nobleman son merchant, a anti imperial agitator, a bretonian knight (myself), a kislevite coach driver and a painter

truly an amalgamation of the finest order

[undone latch]

Wonderful

Your character and mine might be related. What's your characters name? Mine is Henri (benny) Outbuche.
He's called Benny because Benni means banished in French and yeah he's a banished son.

and yeah our wood elf is a bounty hunter... but an archer one

[upper canopy]

I have

it's got some weird little changes from 2e

they aren't BAD but they are different

and there is a more specific game play loop

With the way combat works, you and an enemy can kill each other in the same attack

[undone latch]

Wonderful

[upper canopy]

which did happen to a player of mine

him and an ungor killed each other simultaniously

[undone latch]

I do hope I'm not going to explode and die

because I am the one who is probably in fighting range

[upper canopy]

You'll probably shoot your friend in the back of the head before anything

[undone latch]

because the others on the team are going to be
elf bountyhunter
Halfling (tbd)

No no I'm the one going to be shot in the back

[upper canopy]

Oh "fighting range" not "fighting from range"

misread apologies

you are going to be shot in the back of the head

[undone latch]

I am

Thankfully, I have some toughness

[upper canopy]

I would recommend kneecapping the halfling if things turn south

[undone latch]

I also do not know how fighting works

[upper canopy]

as most enemies would eat them first over a human

[undone latch]

It's rather funny that I was doing my best to carefully guide towards being a front line fighter with my random rolls only to wind up a Breton courtier

[upper canopy]

My main OC was borrn from the dice diciding I was to make a Bretonnian Knight Errant

[undone latch]

Heck yeah

[upper canopy]

now look at 'em

[undone latch]

Bretonnian courtier who knows about farming is running his father's accounts out here ever since he was banished

[upper canopy]

this was a randomly generated boy

[undone latch]

Heck yeah

I do love randomly generating characters

[upper canopy]

I can't play warhammer games without doing it

[undone latch]

We're trying to figure out how we can connect our characters, because they're a wood elf but not from the area near bretonnia

I'm trying to encourage some sort of fraternity of people getting together who weren't born in Talabec's capital but still want to take care of it

because none of us were born here I suspect we're not allowed in the more niche loops

Can I ask, my character's apparently got a deformity. What do you think would be a good one for a courtier that is still doing physical stuff?

[runic swallow]

Gnarly scars

Like burns or missing a good chunk of an ear

[undone latch]

Could be a good one

[upper canopy]

Well Wood Elves don't have to be from Athel Loren

there's a few enclaves scattered around the Empire

[runic swallow]

Since I assume you don’t want anything that’d cause a notable loss of combat skill

[undone latch]

Yeah they picked the option from Laurelen or however it's spelled

[upper canopy]

Laurelorn

[undone latch]

And yeah the deformity is just a flavour thing for the character

[upper canopy]

But likewise with the World Roots, Wood Elves can show up anywheree

[runic swallow]

Oh, a nasty skin condition is also an option

Or a bone that broke and got re-set kinda wonky

[undone latch]

We spent half the time just sitting there giggling over what could be the various reasons my father decided to just banish me

including "Father I have learned of farming" (I have lore farming)
BANISHED

[runic swallow]

“No son of mine would dare say “thank you” to a peasant!”

“By the Lady, you learned cooking?”

[undone latch]

"father I have become able to read"
BANISHED

[upper canopy]

Which Dukedom you from?

[undone latch]

Not decided at the moment. I should roll for it, also I have the talent thingy of "Secret Bloodline". So that's going to be... funky

[runic swallow]

“Father, have you ever considered that we should perhaps advance our technology some? The empire seems to be-“
“Well if you love the empire so much why don’t you go there FOREVER?!”

[undone latch]

"Father I am five"
BANISHED

[runic swallow]

Wait, you said Bretonian, right?

[undone latch]

yes

[runic swallow]

Okay good my joke suggestions were riffing on the right thing at least

[undone latch]

Also we got through all of this and right at the end we rolled deformity and it's like... awww did I get banished because I look funky? Just a birth defect and squirreled off

[runic swallow]

That’s a bit real

[upper canopy]

You could have a few secret things going on

[runic swallow]

But I feel it’d be funnier if it was mostly unrelated

[upper canopy]

1. Bastard
2. Actually an ancestor was a peasant thus making you legally not a noble
3. Elf got in there somehow

You could make French Todoroki Shoto

[undone latch]

Considering my shit agility I'm more likely half dwarf considering I'm 5'5 and my starting toughness is 4

And yeah it's funnier if the banishment was unrelated to the deformity.

"Father perhaps we should improve things somewhat?"
immediately sent on first coach to talabec

[upper canopy]

Do you HAVE to be banished?

[undone latch]

I'm not going back to bretonnia. But also no. I'm just a long distance Courtier

technically I'm doing what courtier's do

[runic swallow]

“I could live with you looking as you do, but I cannot abide your fascination with gunpowder!”

[undone latch]

More lores are high society, farming, and literacy

[runic swallow]

Honestly the last two are pretty frowned on in Brettonia

[upper canopy]

Not really

A noble is a steward of the land and should know how to run a farm

and literacy is expected among nobility

[undone latch]

I'm going to talk to the GM about the banishment/soft banishment being related to my mystery bloodline, but yeah. Got to see what it is.

[upper canopy]

Troll Blood

Grandpa Did Some Things

[undone latch]

I also got two contacts from a roll. One was a mage I might technically 'employ', but mostly just using my noble status to let them do the magics they need, since most magic users need a sponsor.
The second is meant to be a common person, where I still managed to get a Kislev elder who has apparently looked after me for years for some reason.

[upper canopy]

That's a very eclectic mix

[undone latch]

Random rolling for ya.

[runic swallow]

I mean weird court hangers on isn’t uncommon

So the Kislev guy could just be a courtier who likes you/owes you

[undone latch]

I decided that the Kislev elder was also an exile, which is how we bonded. Basically a case of "you too kid? Here's a way to avoid some pitfalls". And yeah the mage clearly got refuted by a bunch of other nobles and I'm clearly the fifth choice but whatever you know? I have a mage around who might help me if I ask nicely.

The elf got a thief, graverobber and scoundrel swashbuckler who they unknowingly helped steal a precious item, and a markswoman in the area that they keep showing up with their skills but they have like a begrudging rivalry

[upper canopy]

I think your best bet would be a coastal trading dukedom

like uhhhhhh

Brionne?

[undone latch]

Oh? Could I ask why?

[upper canopy]

or Bordeleux

Well it would explain you going to Talabecland and knowing a Kislevite

Since Erengrad and Talabheim both have ports connected to the coast

so it makes it a more believable confluence

[undone latch]

Fair

Kislevite was probably met after the banishment, but yes, would be a good suggestion

[upper canopy]

My boy was from Aquataine

And left because Aquataine sucks to be a Knight Errant in

[undone latch]

I'm pretty much just there for my father's assets

Oh I also have a library

Probably a bunch of books maybe not legal in Bretonnia

[main pagoda]

Yeah mine is henri as well lmfao

[upper canopy]

You could just be running a merchant company in Talabecland

[undone latch]

That's the guess, couple of resources, but I am a courtier not a merchant. I'm probably just the boss' son sitting there on his arse while other people do the actual work.

Also hooray for Henri!

Hope you're not banished like mine

[upper canopy]

Have you read the Bretonnian WHFRP book?

[main pagoda]

Nah just questing

[undone latch]

I have not

[upper canopy]

It has So Much

[undone latch]

Also the time period this is set everyone's having a big civil war

so I can see why people might be getting sent all over to personally monitor areas, but not welcomed too well where they arrive

[mental birch]

Also bloons are wild ass nonsense

[undone latch]

Bloons?

Also I think I might have him be Ectrodactyly on one of his hands. Split hand, probably on his non dominant one.

And maybe a witch nipple, a third nipple in a different place

[charred bridge]

Never ask Trazyn where he got the family recipe from, or who's family

[undone latch]

or who's the recipe

[charred bridge]

Trazyn capturing some grandma cause she makes amazing cookies and just unfreezing her for a few minutes every couple thousand millenia to remind him of the recipe (it's for nemesor zahndrekh who swears it's the best thing he's had)

[sonic hare]

his family now.

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1402474740110852096/526630090_750809714259873_4414036425980254298_n.png?ex=68940be2&is=6892ba62&hm=a2d26155e542c4356c73118ba736bd7b06b66fa84d645b46e0884e554f218335&

[floral herald]

https://tenor.com/view/sebinkatv-the-joker-joker-snyder-cut-joker-snyder-cut-gif-21334910

[upper canopy]

btw

found out a weird thing about Dark Heresy 2

you can replace the die on your damage roll with degrees of success on an attack

which means you actually can focus more on WS itself and not strength

[undone latch]

I'm not sure how well I'm going to fight. I have decent defence, but I'm using an axe... Which does one more damage I think? But I think I heard the sword has better defence? Also the abstracted wealth is slightly befuddling me

I have three coin and no idea how to use them

[upper canopy]

I don't think hand weapon stats differ until you get a good quality one

You deal 1d10+Str Bonus

[undone latch]

Well the axe does an extra damage through armour and the sword does... something I can't remember. I'm not sure it's 1d10 though... Unless this is a different version

[rocky shale]

I think its a parry bonus

[undone latch]

yee

something about defending yourself

which I'm decent at but probably going to eat shit while wielding an axe

[upper canopy]

Defensive I thinkk is the quality

But I think for the most part you just get A Hand Weapon

starting out

[mental birch]

The cathay lanterns

[west zealot]

40k lore has some gems sometimes

[pine matrix]

What do Tyranids even need with souls anyway

[west zealot]

Well, Mx. Doom, Malanti thought they were delicious and got real swole on them

And that's how we got Neruthropes.

[pine matrix]

Ah, I guess I assumed Tyranids are pretty focused on the biological, other than some psychic bugs and MX DOOM was just eating Eldar souls to be a prick

[west zealot]

They usually are! Malanti just decided to go ham on an infinity circuit somehow

[floral herald]

He has resting smelled a fart face

[cinder wraith]

you know what he reminds me?

he gives off that "TONIGHT! WE STEAL THE MOOON!!!" type face

[west zealot]

I'm sure someone, somewhere has done Iron Warrior minions

[junior robin]

finally, daemon primarch perturabo.

just need to glue him to a knight base

[west zealot]

Is that actually DP perty? Seems like it's still HH era perty

[pastel rampart]

Nah, just the Joytoy version.

We've not seen any official rendition of daemon primarch perty.

[junior robin]

but he would be the right size for a DP

[west zealot]

Dp perty is by the descriptions we've got of him, a super-obliterator/dread hybrid. So honestly I'd kinda expect him to be Even Bigger than most other primachs

[junior robin]

the toy more then twice the size of miniature robute so should work nicely.

[brittle salmon]

My first HH 3e Iron Warriors list off to a good start I think

No Artillery based rite of war yet? No problem! Make the Solar Auxilia do it for you

[junior robin]

the traditional iron warriors way of combat

[cinder wraith]

BLOOD FOR THE 12TH LEGION

SKULLS FOR THE PRIMARCH

[gray basalt]

Damn I lowkey want that Pert

But I said I would never buy the Joytoy unless 30k Morty and Deathshroud drop

Maybe I'd get Lorgar and Erebus

[pastel rampart]

If Joytoy ever makes a Ferrus Mannus he must have a removable head.

[gray basalt]

Truth

[past sphinx]

were back in peak fiction form folks

[pine matrix]

Honestly the cover alone looks like a blast

[pine matrix]

I should really get round to reading Harrowmaster

[pine matrix]

Emps would have been no diff'd against The Beast

[gray basalt]

Big E couldn't even beat Horus, Beast wouldve bodied Big E /j

[floral herald]

I think Regular Ork would actually just body the beast

[pulsar cairn]

[gray basalt]

True

[thin ibex]

Regular Ork?

Also weren't there like a bunch of "Beasts" and Vulkan only took one down by exploding the whole ship?

[floral herald]

There is an unnamed huge as fuck warboss who put the Emperor in a situation on Ullanor

And he got helped out by Horus and blew the ork’s everything smooth off with psychic powers

[thin ibex]

But also I have no trouble believing an Ork could pose an equal threat as Horus and a proper threat to Terra, just in general

Honestly I forgot about that and love that

[runic swallow]

He’s da biggest and da best

[thin ibex]

Orks get under estimated a lot, it's good to know some unnamed schmuck had big E on his heels

[floral herald]

We can elide for slandering purposes that the ork is also bigger than a dreadnought and so cybork’d up it’s got like 12 limbs and is psychic too

Regular Ork is just really hardcore

[thin ibex]

Like on one end Regular Ork existed to be killed by Big E and Horus Heresy Lupercal but also, that's Big E and HHL

Not some chumps

[runic swallow]

Ulanor got turned into Armageddon, right?

[thin ibex]

Yup

[floral herald]

Yeah

[charred bridge]

Makes me wonder what krorks were like

A regular krork probably could have made big E sweat

[thin ibex]

That's kind of the problem with the war in heaven era presumed power scaling, because I don't think it was like that

Big E is powerful even by the standards of that time

[gray basalt]

Big E is as powerful as the narrative demands

[thin ibex]

Krorks being hyper intelligent, hyper advanced, with advanced tech and being the size of an imperial knight or some shit just seems so out of left field

And if average krorks would be capable of trouncing big E, how'd they struggle so bad against the necron and ctan

[tired cairn]

Necrons had some wild tech (like a device that can blow up stars they don't use for that because it would break the universe) and even a fraction of a C'tan is pretty powerful

[pine matrix]

I guess that then begs the idea of necrons and c'tans being a step above that in the WiH

[floral herald]

The Regular Ork is probably pretty much Krork level

[tired cairn]

Also, weren't the Necrons losing until the enslavers ate everyone?

[thin ibex]

So we know for a fact that the necron warrior was the rank and file warrior of the necron empire even in the war in heaven. They were not 14 feet tall back then

[tired cairn]

There were a lot more of them. Were regular orks also around?

[thin ibex]

And I think we're pretty sure that big e bested a wounded void dragon on Mars. Which is to say not a shard. So it follows that big e is stronger than a krork

Krorks were the regular orks of the time

[tired cairn]

Maybe this is why the Necrons have so many underground bases: 14' tall Krorks couldn't fit in them

[floral herald]

We don’t know

[thin ibex]

The running theory being that fighting never got that intense again so they devolved to the level of the conflicts

I.e. the orks we know now

[tired cairn]

Eldar were also around so maybe the Necrons just had their warriors fight the pointy ears

[upper canopy]

A regular ork warlord nearly choked the emperor to death

Big E was not some hyper power scaled personal combatant

[thin ibex]

big E beat the void dragon, albeit wounded. Big E beat Horus, presumably he is capable defeating other primarchs. Primarchs are kind of hella scaled personal melee combatants

[upper canopy]

He beat Horus in a yu gi oh duel

Not in a sword fight

[floral herald]

They had a sword fight before the yugioh

[thin ibex]

im pretty sure he was leading the crusade from the front lines for decades

[floral herald]

It’s just less fun to quote from

[upper canopy]

But did he beat horus in the sword fight

Before the Yugioh

[floral herald]

They have a sword fight and then a like, teleporting into each others mind palaces and then yugioh

[floral herald]

No, but this is Super Horus who is technically infinitely powerful and self-jobbing so it’s hard to compare to anything else

[charred bridge]

Chaos United empowered Horus

[floral herald]

The best part of that whole book is describing Sanguinius as being as fast as light but not fast enough because Horus is as fast as Darkness

[upper canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/shadow-the-hedgehog-gif-3996394549584192587

Then I think the only actual two things we have to compare are him getting strangled by an ork and the supposed duel with the void dragon

A shard of the void dragon mind

[gray basalt]

There was only one good part in the The End and the Death and it was in the epilogue of part 3

[upper canopy]

Idk the 2 page sentence was good

[floral herald]

Full quote

[vital barn]

this has always been fun because so far in every edition of 30k I have figured out some kind of way for an army of either tin cans or chumps to beat up a Primarch

probably a lot harder in 3e because AP2 has been made much harder to get and they all reduce damage they take to 1, but I will prevail

[upper canopy]

God I do hate how much of the setting is condensed in the primarchs

[gray basalt]

Same

Like I love my war crime boys but they need to get out of the spot light now

[vital barn]

I think Photon Thruster Gang might be my best option in 3e, since I can put these on lots of units

[charred bridge]

Wish granted, another named ultramarine will be in every game

[pastel rampart]

At this point I'll take another named ultramarine.

[thin ibex]

i just think krorks are kinda silly because the idea of them being the original orks and being 12 meter tall ultra smart, mega weapon, kill tanks and then also them having what appears to be no affect on the war in heaven whatsoever nor impactfully affecting the ctan at all

[pastel rampart]

Krorks are very silly because it tries to say that the orks, back in the day were as powerful and magnificent in scope as the Eldar but eventually turned into soccer hooligans once the brain boys died off.

[charred bridge]

Which is funny to me, the fight got too easy so they nerfed themselves to adapt

[upper canopy]

I think it's fine since Eldar used to be immortal gods and now they're just

Dudes

[charred bridge]

Kroots also do that, if they hyperfixate too much on one aspect they become mindless and often weaker than ones that follow strict rules on what to eat

[charred bridge]

I think an important part of it is that krorks were as numerous as orks but able to strategize well

Modern necrons without ctan sometimes struggle with orks

[upper canopy]

Goregutz canonically won against the Necrons in Winter Assault

which included a C'tan shard

[charred bridge]

Modern necrons basically mostly have grunts, not star exploders on demand and mega whole ctan fighting with them

To me its like if imperium only had guardsman, they be a force but weaker even if numbers are a huge advantage. No astartes, no knights or titans,

[gray basalt]

Well they might have star exploders on hand but most realize exploding stars isn't the best thing to do in most situations

[charred bridge]

No but having an abundance of less superweapons would be a big boon

[gray basalt]

Otherwise they would just use the celestial orrery on Terra and other home worlds

[charred bridge]

The technology necrons have now is basically real basic by their war in heaven standards, anything that was hardy enough to survive slumber is what they have

A lot was lost

[charred bridge]

Theres not much of a point to, tyranids and orks dont have home worlds and probably a bigger threat than imperium

[gray basalt]

They have enough to use the tachyon arrows fairly consistently and those rewrite people out of existence

[charred bridge]

Imperium existing keeps them at bay

Yea, I mostly bring this up for why necrons would struggle against modern orks when krorks existed

Orks and modern necrons are weaker than war in heaven necrons and krorks. Modern necrons arent on the same scale as war in heaven even if the necron warriors are the same, warriors were arguably a small part of their power compared to ctan shards and abundance of tech

[thin ibex]

i find that debatable on the grounds that the rank and file are important to any war effort; necron warriros werent an after thought to the tactical applications of the necron war machine; they werent function purely on the backs of ctan and super weapons; their legions were a core element to their military doctrine

[gray basalt]

Oh whoops forgot this discussion was happening

I agree and disagree

But only bc C'tan were whole during the WiH and while they aren't whole now Necrons can shackle their vestiges and use them for stuff like super batteries

[thin ibex]

War in Heaven glazing can make things just in general super wonky in the setting imo, and not in a really good way

I'd also point out that the necrons defeated the ctan; albeit after the ctan had mostly devoured one another and centralized their power

[tired cairn]

Treating the war in heaven as exaggerated myths is probably sensible

Something, something everything is canon, not everything is true

[gray basalt]

Ye things where wild back then but not only were they wild but also poorly record kept since we only have Eldar poetry and Necron HDDs they are fracturing to remember what happened

[thin ibex]

its the same problem i have with DAOT tbh

the assumption that the weakest possible thing from the DAOT or WiH is more powerful than the most powerful thing anyone can do in the current era is kinda borked to me

[gray basalt]

I don't think GW should explore either

[thin ibex]

Like... "baneblades were scout tanks" is just logistically silly

[tired cairn]

They should explore a little bit just because "techno-barbarian" is too cool of a title not too

[gray basalt]

They did explore the pre unified Terra in the Valdor book

[thin ibex]

Back in the dark age of technology, titans were 3 times as big, could break dance, and play titan scaled basketball /j

[gray basalt]

A little anyway

[thin ibex]

back in the war in heaven, the basic weapon of anyone could blow up planets, thats what they were all shooting at each other, planet exploding shots /j

[tired cairn]

There should be a lot more blown up planets of the WiH fluff was true lol

[gray basalt]

The Valdor book is Valdor getting interviewed about the unification of Terra with the Thunder warriors

[thin ibex]

mice back during the war in heaven could judo throw a titan now /j

like it feels like reading those meme chuck norris facts or something

[gray basalt]

And written by one of the better BL writers Chris Wraight

[thin ibex]

"Normal humans during the DAoT stole Big E's lunch money and called him a loser" or something

[gray basalt]

I'll BTFO Big E

[charred bridge]

If it were true astronomers in 21st century would be pulling hairs

This specifically Galaxy just doesn't make sense and we don't know why

[thin ibex]

sometimes it feels like WiH is lke a Gurren Lagann Esque fever dream where all these super figures were jus throwing galaxies as shurikens at each other or power bombing using planetchucks n such

[charred bridge]

But also there's stuff from dark age of technology that's wild

Like STC that hacked the astartes armor and did time travel

That was like a colony ship not a war ship

And Trazyn has war in heaven relics that are monstrous and stood up to shard of the deceiver

[thin ibex]

"A pair of scissors from the DAoT is so sharp it cuts atoms; which is ok because nukes were how they cut the paper of the time. Paper that was stronger than aurimite armor now, stronger than void shields. Also the human's of that time were just immune to nukes because DAoT" (not a real quote, ths is made up on vibes)

[paper bluff]

In twice dead king the MC laments how the sheilds of his ship were calibrated to take shots that would rend reality and the imperium ships were hitting it with primitive solid shot munitions

Robots vs. Gorillas is big rocks

[vital barn]

"my tech is too good, that's how they beat me" is such a coming-up-with-an-excuse line, too

why don't you rend some reality then

[upper canopy]

Love how this means apparently asteroids would kill this hyper advanced ship

[charred bridge]

Isn't mostly only nobles that would have their minds intact

All the scientists and engineers that weren't nobles but be mindless

That's my headcanon, 99% of the necrontyr needed for innovation were soul ate and mind gone.

Who's left that knows how to rig shields to be more rock based vs God tier reality manipulation based.

[charred bridge]

Tbf they kind of just jump everywhere or use gates they're not flying through space

Even then if a stray meteor flew through a necron ship the necrodermis would just repair the chance incident. They didn't account for hundreds of heavy metal projectiles per second

Too primitive to account for is a funny weakness

[thin ibex]

Ah drats my reality enforcing shields just let bullets through. Because they're real. Damn

Could never have predicted this

[sour sequoia]

Y’all ever been in a cage with a silverback gorilla? Sure it’s a toddler

[charred bridge]

Man where's the Ctan, the masters of the materium, to make ours ships rock proof, oh wait

[past sphinx]

as it turns out our current most advanced body armor sucks shit at stopping halberds

because we dont use pike and shot formations

[floral herald]

It would be funny to try to explain modern body armor to knights

[past sphinx]

if someone decided to outfit a modern military to counter weapons from 1000 year agos they would be looked at as mad

[thin ibex]

Riot armor conversely is actually pretty good in a melee

[pine matrix]

"I learned it from watching you!"

[paper bluff]

What was that thing I think I heard, english riot officers wear chain mail?

[past sphinx]

anti stab gear

german in this case

[paper bluff]

That's all well and good till people start bringing warhammers

[jagged dawn]

Don’t know why but a combination of darktide and miscellaneous WWI things are making us want to dust off our plan to assemble a guard army

[paper bluff]

Only do that it you have say..... 800 usd

Maybe more honestly

[jagged dawn]

We’ll probably go the 3D printer route

And only go official for certain units

[charred bridge]

Cheaper to buy the nicest resin printer than legit

And people at your lfg will love you, the owners probably lesso

[upper bluff]

There are plenty of ways to support your LGS without buying $800 worth of kriegsmen

Like instead buy $800 worth of Admech!

[rocky shale]

Much harder to 3d print true

[upper bluff]

My 3d printed Ironstriders my friend made for me would agree

[rocky shale]

You have to print ironstrider because they're too comically overpriced otherwise

[upper bluff]

Yeah it's a real damned if you do damned if you don't kinda thing

[paper bluff]

They'd want to have a 2k points army. Not a 700 points one

[rocky shale]

The real secret to gw plastic is miniswap

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEupmbdMeWw

[humble plover]

Tangentially related, there are also chainmail diving suits for swimming with sharks

[charred bridge]

40k Shark riders

Laser eyes too of course

[rocky shale]

AoS has them

[paper bluff]

It's true

Wave cape and turtle rider too

[charred bridge]

Im also so envious of AoS

Just AoS 40k already

[paper bluff]

Idk, there's too much noble noblebright in AoS

[brittle salmon]

Where?

[tepid stratus]

What books are you reading? lol

We've got the horrors of colonialism, The loss of humanity, suicidal fanaticism, ritual murder and spiritual vampirism and that's all just from the order factions

[paper bluff]

Let me rephrase, there's more hope in AoS

[west zealot]

The best bit about this is that sharks really aren't malicious, it's just the main way they interact with the world is "chom?"

[tepid stratus]

A little hope ain't a bad thing IMO

[west zealot]

It's a good thing, esp if you're doing grimdark. All grim all the time just leads to stuff like "corpse starch makes no mathematical sense" or "we're the grey knights, so we're going to kill these sisters of battle, and use their blood for anti demon wards!"

Compared to the retrcon version, where the sisters were holdouts on a daemon world, and go out heros helping the knights complete their mission.

One of these is bleak but hopefully, the other is just daft

[upper canopy]

I'm jealous that in AoS the model designers get to have fun

[granite basin]

sorry to interrupt- these are a friend's models they thrifted from somewhere, not mine. i'm just curious bc they wanted to know what these models belong to and i can't figure it out. i don't even know if these are bashed from GW plastic or not, i'm kinda stumped.

cowlpiece on the top says terminator, hood in the second picture says dark angel, but i... maybe i'm just not good at identifying these. do these look familiar on some level or are they just pure bashes-

[floral herald]

Those are Horus Heresy Dark Angels Cataphractii Terminators

[pastel rampart]

Pretty sure they're 3D prints.

http://puu.sh/Kyyyp/024e791b7d.jpg

Yeah, the swirl atop the hood and the lines on the armor collar give it away.

[floral herald]

I agree

[paper bluff]

Yep

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/Dark-Angels-Legion-Inner-Circle-Knights-2020
These are the sculpts

[granite basin]

grazie, i will let em know-

[charred bridge]

FDM for minis bold

Or at least a smaller one, a titan would take forever unless FDM

The market is kind of saturated but if I knew someone that painted id print proxies for them free if they paint some I want

I avoid warhammer minis otherwise ill end up Vii the grey shelves

[rocky shale]

Resin printers have layer lines too, just much smaller

[runic swallow]

I generally haven’t noticed them, but they’re obviously there just due to how it works

[pastel rampart]

Resin layer lines are much finer and once you get a few layers of paint on there it's almost impossible to tell.

[undone latch]

So in the new 4th edition abstracted wealth stuff

How easy would it be to buy a shield?

[charred bridge]

If you do a vapor air bath it gets rid of them mostly

Smooths it out to be be not visible unless you had a really strong magnifying glass

To the point it makes it shiny, mostly only works with resin

Even with acetone vapor baths for ABS, FDM layer lines are too pronounced to smooth out without loss in detail

[paper bluff]

Let it be said, GW has been caught with painted 3d printed minis (likely just prototypes for crew for art crew before production runs) but it seems very unlikely those would make their way out of GW offices

[charred bridge]

Makes sense

3d printing is ideal for prototyping

[paper bluff]

I also assume there's some aspect of digital modeling when making the mini

[rocky shale]

All the minis are digitally modeled now

[gray basalt]

I dislike hope in 40k but mainly bc everyone takes the hope in 40k the wrong way

Hope in 40k just means them absolutely corrupt empire will continue to oppress almost all humans but most Imperium fans just ignore all the bad stuff the IoM does bc of some pretty crummy reasons

[gray basalt]

Also kill other sentient beings that aren't human

Now I think there is room for human hope on the small scale but GW has been just pumping out large scale lore and its getting kinda muddy on that this whole setting is satire since the IoM is pretty consistently viewed as the protagonist

[charred bridge]

Some parts are not satire

It was originally but some writers take it seriously as not satire as a hfy human spirit in spite of suffering approach

[rocky shale]

I mean the IoM are protagonists just by virtue of screen time lol

[gray basalt]

Except that human spirit just feeds the machine and makes the Imperium look good when they really aren't

[rocky shale]

I think you can both acknowledge that everything in 40k is bad and evil and still like your blorbos and the evil they do

[tired cairn]

(nitpick, being the protagonist doesn't mean the person is good or heroic. It just means they are the main character)

[charred bridge]

Old Sentinels have strong satire vibes to me. The seals on engine and the super exposed canopy cause they dont bother armoring it to protect the pilot.

[rocky shale]

Like I think my chaos knights are cool because they are delusional mustache twirling villains who have giant robots that kill stuff

[charred bridge]

Sentinels now are serious

[tired cairn]

Well, that one on the right is an armoured one right?

I think modern scout sentinels are still an exposed cockpit?

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[tired cairn]

What a weird doohicky arm

[charred bridge]

Modern scout, less funny design

[tired cairn]

I think they look pretty similar? They are noticably bigger though lol

[charred bridge]

No car headlights, no seals, it kind of looks like a normal serious scout sentinel

[tired cairn]

I am surprised at the lack of purity seals

[charred bridge]

Like door of old one is a car door cause its basically a car cabin

[vital barn]

the comically large searchlight is still in most IG vehicle kits IIRC

[upper canopy]

Like the main problem with 40k is that hope is framed with like

Gullieman and the Lion being back

Are they gonna stop being fascists?

No

But they are back and they are killing things slightly harder

[paper bluff]

Yeah. Gman is the most imperial of them

Dude made imperium 2

[charred bridge]

Oh god ive never seen this guy, its a power lifter carrying a missile

[rocky shale]

Hope in 40k is not dying in a giant meatgrindatron9000 and instead dying of old age at 40

[gray basalt]

You can, I don't meet many IoM fans that do this tho

Oh whoops wrong reply

Mean the blorbos comment

[charred bridge]

Or find Tau

Maybe live to a natural death

[gray basalt]

I love old sentinels

[rocky shale]

Like I just don't go to 40k looking for like antifascist themes and literature and such

It's a bad setting for that

[upper canopy]

I just want it to be less pro fascist

[gray basalt]

I disagree it's a great setting for that

Billions of humans die everyday

[charred bridge]

I want it to be more helldivers, be pro facist but be so absurd youre like yea its mocking facism

[gray basalt]

In part due to the fascism

[charred bridge]

Like guardsmen propaphandga that xenos use child labor is funny satire

While 30 children died making that poster

[rocky shale]

I think the dilemma is that as a company, GW has to sell models and to sell models they have to make them cool.

[charred bridge]

The Tau ones are funny "The Tau are throwing away their lives for ethereals who dont know them or care about them if they die"

Id want more of that

[thin ibex]

I think the core problem with the Imperium an why it's pro fascist is generally a tone and phrasing problem in that in the past it was goofier, more satire. As it's begun to take itself seriously, it's also taken on the tone that it's flagship guys, the space marines, are the good guys. Handsome blue eyed men saving the day. That the Imperium, for all it's failings, is actually the better option. Generally you get a better sense of the Horrors™ and more for real grimdark in the Imperium when you get deeper into the lore

But marketing, at a base level, is phrasing the hyperfascist empire's brainwashed super stormtroopers as the heroic Good Dudes™ fighting against the galaxy of evil and terror

And it doesn't help that the heroic good dudes have roman inspired accouterments and Latin symbols

[west zealot]

And once again, this is why I stan the Tyrannid for a better, hungrier, more ethical galaxy

[charred bridge]

Well for a bit then they move onto the next galaxy and itll be lifeless except for Necrons

[cinder wraith]

i have a leak from a trustworthy source

bluey is getting a warhammer combat patrol set

[past sphinx]

About a week for a reaver about 3 days for a warhound

[deft crest]

I feel like a titan would be FASTER in resin tbh

[west zealot]

I've just got a mental image of Szarek standing with his hips balled on his fists, "I warned you! i told you! Now how arew e gonna clean uyp this mess?"

[mental birch]

Pffft

[rocky shale]

Votann codex leaked and it's looking super fun

You can probably find it on reddit still

[soft willow]

I'm pretty pleased with the changes overall.

[junior robin]

guess there is no new robots they have not shown us?

[rocky shale]

No all the new units were revealed

[soft willow]

The only real "new" thing was fully confirming that the Steeljack kit makes two datasheets, a melee one and a ranged one separately.

[thin ibex]

steeljacks seem so cool

[rocky shale]

They also only take 2 transport slots so you can dump 6 in a land fortress

[upper bluff]

Wait for real? Steel jacks can go in transport!?!?

Oh that's awesome!

[rocky shale]

All the heavy infantry is down to 2 slots

So you can also go 6 thunderkyn in a land fortress

Sagitaur is still warriors only

[soft willow]

Well, it still only splits warriors and won't let you carry heavier stuff.

But you could put a split squad of infiltrating bois in there or a Grymnir.

[rocky shale]

Though you can stick 3 of the solo science men in a sag

[soft willow]

Yup

Or RAW Mole Mortars

[rocky shale]

"I'm with the science team!"

[soft willow]

You can fit all six mole mortars in one Sagitaur at the moment.

[rocky shale]

In the transport detschment you can have 3 science men with sus1 pop out of a sag along with any other solo characters you want

[charred bridge]

A fun fact is in general FDM speed is based on volume, more volume then more time.

Resin is based on height so it can print nearly any volume at the same speed.

So printing like a dozen short guys would be much faster on resin since it doesnt care about volume really but something really tall and skinny tends to be faster on FDM

[charred bridge]

Really I dont remember it taking that long but I did have multiple 3d printers and did modify STLs to have joints so I can print them in multiple pieces for different printers

[deft crest]

Maybe my perception is fucked because i only print in Petg

[charred bridge]

Do you have a corexy

I was also heavy into modding printers since I had many ender 3s, a deltasun, and an shiny ender 6. That ender 6 at the time was amazing as like the only premade corexy that wasnt a kit. Its aged poorly with bambu/prusa coreone being just much better

[mental birch]

Seems self evident hahaa

(Fdm has a mechanical arm moving to build the volume, resin only has the mechanical component for height)

[charred bridge]

A lot of people used to fdm think more volume means more time on resin too

It's a fairly common misconception

[soft willow]

You could just build your whole plate in theory in resin and it'd only add time with additional height/layers.

Which is why you can print like an entire LI army all at once on the right resin printer

[charred bridge]

FDM is visually easy to intuit that every piece of area that needs printing the nozzle has to cover it so more complex areas means more time as nozzle needs to slow down for details.

Resin is harder to intuit visually unless you look into how it works, the screen mini cures the entire surface of the screen at once so complexity doesn't matter, it all takes basically the flash of light and negligible time to solidify

[junior summit]

oh shit wait is that what the release film does?

is that why it's called release film?

[charred bridge]

Pretty much why resin is good for minis, also finer details.

[junior summit]

because every time the cured resin gets stuck to both the film and the plate so it has to peel it off the film?

I sat there thinking about how you'd avoid the resin curing over the screen rather than the plate but it does cure over the screen you just pull it off, right?

[charred bridge]

If it's that film you need to replace every once in a while yea

[junior summit]

its the film that goes over the UV screen

[charred bridge]

It's not perfect so it clouds up with very small cured resin so it's good to replace it if prints start looking not as good

[charred bridge]

Oh ideally the cured resin won't adhere to the film

My first resin printer it wasn't set properly and resin got cured on the UV screen

And it was like a photon zero for $80 cause they were being clearances so no reasonably priced replacement. I'm still upset by that cause it seemed to be a big fluke and they usually last quite a bit longer

I even had an acetone vapor bath and nice washer curer setup which made beautifully smooth prints

[junior summit]

it doesnt stick much but you're just curing the 0.12mm layer between film and plate, right?

wait how does that work with overhangs?

I guess...the resin starts to cure at the film so even with greater distance it still ends up curing correctly?

[runic swallow]

I wonder if it being in fluid helps with that? Like the overhangs are somewhat supported by the liquid?

I unfortunately don’t know a huge amount about the mechanics of resin printing other than the very basics of how it works

[rocky shale]

Resin needs supports too

[runic swallow]

Oh I’m aware

I probably didn’t word that as well as I could have

[thin ibex]

Everyone needs support. Including Resin. I don't know who they are, but they deserve support too

[runic swallow]

I will say, it’s always kinda neat how organic tree supports are

It’s neat when computer design just goes with what is calculated to be most efficient and how that can result in interestingly organic looking structures

[charred bridge]

The organic tree supports are so much easier to trim

[charred bridge]

Most resin prints are upside for that reason, the overhang is supported by the previous layer above it.

Well there are a there reasons but that's one

Many resin slicers have really good tree supports it a game changer compared to towers with less points of failure and easy to remove

You don't have to cut these supports

Clip from movie no 3d printing but I've had stuff like that before

[charred bridge]

More like the domintable inhuman spirit amirite

[jagged dawn]

Dammit we need to remake our space wolves list because half of it got sent to legends in the intervening time

Also why the hell did they make hounds of morkai legends?

That’s just bizzare

[jaunty dawn]

That is odd

[west zealot]

Yami yugi went rogue and started Shadow realming things.

(Okay the idea of Yami Yugi plays Warhammer is pretty funny).

[jaunty dawn]

It was also odd that they made the unit in the first place but yeah

[upper canopy]

Duke Devlin is the one that plays warhammer

[west zealot]

Really depends, Yugi played a couple of war game esque things in the early days of the manga.

He also set people on fire amongst other things back then too.

Don't fuck with Yami

[upper canopy]

Yami did used to straight up kill people yeah

[pulsar cairn]

I thought both were losers

Yu gi oh season 0 was cool

[mild glen]

Seeing the Votann leaks as someone whose only 40k army right now is T'au..

[soft willow]

It's fine to have a type friend.

https://tenor.com/view/squats-dance-warhammer-squat-votann-gif-26480291

Also you can buy lots of Berserks and play the melee detachment!

[mild glen]

I dunno. At this point I might just buy Aldari out of spite. 😜

[rocky shale]

Aeldari are more like tau than votann

Tau are a fast shooty army with movement tricks

Votann are a slow, shooty army with defensive tricks

Aledari are a movement army with more movement tricks

[mild glen]

The joke is more "making me want to buy dwarves? ELVES INSTEAD!"

[rocky shale]

Oh lol

[charred bridge]

Vottan is the squatlings that werent neglected by GW

[soft willow]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-fantasy-dwarf-grudge-simpsons-gif-20525681

[finite compass]

Admittedly, I'm very interested in the Votann

but GW prices are GW prices

Also

[thin ibex]

I'm much more interested in votann with the new additions

Love the steeljacks

A bit sad we get no mbts though

Guess it reinforces them as an infantry army

[rocky shale]

They're transport heavy

But the land fortress is still basically a mbt

[soft willow]

A tank that serves only as a tank isn't a good use of resources, what do you do with it when your band isn't fighting? A Land Fortress? You can haul plenty with one of those after it gets you where you're going.

[thin ibex]

a dedicated tank can overwatch while transports and infantry do their dawi business!

similar to thunderkyn!

[runic swallow]

Thus the Bradley is clearly a masterpiece

[mental birch]

Necron player

[mental birch]

So what the Merkava brain

[paper bluff]

I admit, a squad of steeljacks led my the strategist bot does seem fun

[west zealot]

I just love the lore bit i've seen somewhere that Ironkin will use projectors to make it look like there's a Dorf head inside their helmets.

"Yep. Totally a human me. Pass the beer."

[thin ibex]

They're socialized as members of that society, it kind of makes sense

[west zealot]

Yes, it's just the metnal image of one bluffing the Mechanicus. "No friend, i'm a human. Just heavily augmented. And i cant take the suit off for... religious reasons"

Mechanicus: Oh, that all checks out. I'll have a beer too!

[paper bluff]

Brü

[west zealot]

Hey, an Ironkin is allowed to have his own tastes!

https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mkuvdx/new_article_about_leagues_of_votann_ironkin_lore/

[paper bluff]

Which for the life of me in the context of the book if it's coffee or beer or Brü is a suite of drinks

[pastel rampart]

https://youtu.be/sDV1AYVmTEw?si=UQ6J_sWOfFyW6iUW

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408609553597464579/1403399708973596752/image.png?ex=68976954&is=689617d4&hm=2674fe17adaedf8cdfdac049ee3ab7c2db4d64acb7b6720aa3e3bb1e01959c35&

[hallow star]

something happened in 40k recently?

[cinder wraith]

lore? no

game? competitive mess

[hallow star]

I just heard that the series released the equivalent of a very angry dwarf murdering the tyranids hard

[cinder wraith]

des? pacito

[hallow star]

It callef my attention because it was called "Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby, the dwarf is the bomb"

[floral herald]

You gotta ask less vague questions lol

[hallow star]

let me get an image

[floral herald]

Yeah new special character for the votann wave 2

The last squat

[soft willow]

Buri Agnirsson The Thrice Devoured

Small dorf, big stabby.

“The Bane are there; that is where I need to be. The only inefficiency is this talk, which delays my blade reaching their guts. Take me there. 

Or I will find one who will.”

– Buri Thrice‑devoured, negotiating transit to the heart of the Jordrunn II Swarm

He's real mad about Tyranids existing because they ate his Kin and drove his Votann insane.

Anyway what about him?

[tranquil ivy]

Do i waste my money on the new Saturnine boxset for 40k purposes or do i just save my money and buy the MK2 assault squads when they come out?

[floral herald]

I don’t think Saturnine is super useful for 40K

[cinder wraith]

i was trying to find the words for that

its specifically for horus heresy tbh

[floral herald]

There are some good off label uses I think

Saturnine Termies make pretty good loyalesque Obliterators with a little greebling imo

[tranquil ivy]

I've used 30k stuff before mind you (Mk VI and MK III mainly for things like bladeguard and jump intercessors) but im not sure if Saturnine would be useful

[soft willow]

The scale difference on half that box would be the issue.

[jaunty dawn]

Depends if you like centurions but dont like centurions

[paper bluff]

The saturnine dread converts well for the dread knight

[cinder wraith]

i use heresy for 40k in chaos stuff and vice versa so i have an all purpose army of world eaters to 40k and HH

[tranquil ivy]

oh my god my discord just bugged out for a second and i had a heart attack lmao

anyway-

im definitely picking up some MK2 eventually because I LOVE the jump pack designs for them

as for the breachers i'm unsure what they could be used as

[rocky shale]

His melee profile is wack

[cinder wraith]

better than angron

smh

[soft willow]

He also stands back up and moves towards the enemy when shot at.

But other than murder he doesn’t have much.

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408609553597464579/1403402001496412312/image.png?ex=68976b77&is=689619f7&hm=24c9bcff0df40df326dfda4f01bab848ad969d2097994f0ff7ec4e2e134da094&

[sour sequoia]

Watching the GK and Custodes subreddits crash out over xenos having a big baller for once is incredible

[rocky shale]

Not quite as funny as people realizing what Fuegan's stat line looks like

Especially pre codex when he had a fnp

[sour sequoia]

Buri is honestly the greatest squats nod you could do I think

Here he is, Squat Rambo

[rocky shale]

Buri is great yeah

I'm slightly partial to Fuegan's ridiculous 6A BS2+ S6 AP4 D3 fire axe

Ap4 on melee is just insane

[sour sequoia]

Everybody deserves a taste of Nightbringer melee

[rocky shale]

It's fun when he gets into melee with a 3+ armor vehicle or marines or something and just does not give them a save

[upper canopy]

I feel like Votann are only like, technically Xenos

[sour sequoia]

GSC can pull strings and hit AP4 S12 on an abominant in Biosanctic but thats about it

[upper canopy]

most people seem to treat them as Imperium-adjacent

[sour sequoia]

They definitely have like. Marine vibes and divisions but they haven’t ever felt like marines on the table to me

[floral herald]

They’re one of the closer factions to human ones aesthetically but it’s weird how that happens yeah

Cause they’re culturally just not the same at all

[rocky shale]

Votann went like 3 years with only 8 datasheets or something, that makes them xenos

World eaters are also honorary xenos

I do like that votann have fairly interesting stat lines that do make them feel like regular dudes with good tech

Like low wounds and BS but high toughness and saves

[sour sequoia]

Real good keywords and tricks on the guns, sustained and conversion beamer effects on so much tank/elite cracking is scary

[floral herald]

I like em a lot more with their codex

Grudge tokens felt kinda out of step with a lot of their lore

[rocky shale]

The codex transport detachment looks like so much fun

Why yes I will give everything sus1

[floral herald]

“We are ruthlessly pragmatic which means we NEVER give up emotive vengeance”

Like okay guys

[rocky shale]

Why yes I will give thunderkyn with conversion beamers sus2

[soft willow]

I really think this is where they figured out who the LoV are instead of just Space Dwarfing them.

[floral herald]

Yeah I agree

[sour sequoia]

The grudge token pressure game is neat but the codex is def lookin better

[thin ibex]

for some reason that kind of hypocrisy feels appropriate for warhammer though

[floral herald]

That is fair

I do think it can be tricky to do those sorts of hypocritical things for a new faction

[rocky shale]

Yeah you gotta establish a core identity before you can subvert it

[tired cairn]

The Tyranids are free from hypocrisy 😌

[gray basalt]

Actually based

[tired cairn]

Grudge tokens did feel a bit too fantasy dwarves than Votann actually were

[upper bluff]

They were also just kinda weird for the style of army Votann wanted to be

Like you're supposed to be elite but you get buffs for having entire squads get wiped

[tired cairn]

Well, I think they were supposed to be more midtier than elite but they messed up the balance in the first codex lol

But maybe they are still too elite for it

[upper bluff]

Overall the only thing I don't like about the Votann codex is that the transports still want you to split units in half. Like just let us take a 5 man of them to begin with

[tired cairn]

Random thought: one of the more petty factions should get a detachment where they get bennies whenever the opponent succeeds at things (gain points, kill units etc). Not necessarily because it would be good, but because it would be funny

[tired cairn]

GW is allergic to that for some reason

[upper bluff]

I could see that as a CSM detachment

[upper bluff]

Only in 10th 😦

[tired cairn]

Maybe the transport is too physically small, but I feel like they could probably fit 10 guys inside?

[tired cairn]

I was also thinking Necrons or Dark Eldar

[upper bluff]

Drukharii would be fun with that

It could lead to a kind of cool strategy where you hold back on big attacks until later

[untold swallow]

I think if I make a League army I'm gonna make all of them ironkin

[upper bluff]

"let them think they're winning" kind of thing

[untold swallow]

cuz all my fav units are ironkin specific lol

[upper bluff]

That was my first thought too

But like that's impractical

But I will absolutely have a ton of steeljacks

[tired cairn]

I do like robots and wish there was a robot faction (no Necrons don't count >:|)

[upper bluff]

Admech is the closest we get 😿

[untold swallow]

Oh not like

all the units are ironkin specific

I just

[tired cairn]

Not enough ironkin heads to make all the mixed unit models iron kin?

[hard whale]

I doubt you get enough Ironkin heads. I guess you could say that all the ones with helmets are Ironkin with different heads that a helmet would fit over

[untold swallow]

would use ironkin heads for all the units lol

this is why bits boxes and ebay exist lol

[tired cairn]

I think Necrons actually have the most robots in 40k (the canoptik stuff are robots instead of uploaded people iirc)

AdMech only have one robot

[upper bluff]

Well one real robot

Everyone else is just cosplaying as one

[tired cairn]

(I find it weird that TSons got a robot)

[upper bluff]

I actually really like the TSons robot

[pulsar cairn]

They do?

What does it look like?

[upper bluff]

It's very good at being chaos visually while also keeping their theme of a handful of sorcerers leading mindless drones

[hard whale]

Yeah, the Sehketar or however you spell it are legit Dark Age Automata

[rocky shale]

It's probably because the kit builds 10 with one seargant guy so it doesn't easily split

[pulsar cairn]

I like it

[tired cairn]

I find it funny that they have stealth

[upper bluff]

Yeah the Sekhetar is really cool

[upper bluff]

They're very quiet

With their flamethrowers and dark magic

[floral herald]

See they’ll be looking for blue and gold trim

[hard whale]

They have False Appearance. They move very slowly and pretend to be statues when anyone's looking

[upper bluff]

I... I don't know how many would fall for that

But I guess statues with roboty bits aren't uncommon in the imperium

[tired cairn]

Yeah, everyone does that in 40k battles

[bright dove]

Considering all the skulls and the like

And statues carved with the images of weapons?

[tired cairn]

In 40k? Seems reasonable tbh

The TSons eye you'd think would be more of a giveaway. But I guess an eye is also an imperial motif

[upper bluff]

I'm just imagining every time you turn around the pilot light on the flamethrower ignites and then turns back off when you turn around again

[tired cairn]

It's just one of those patio heaters

[upper bluff]

Grimdark mosquito lamp

I really want to see a grimdark mosquito buzzer lamp now. Like a servo skull with a bunch of Tesla coils sticking out of it

[bright dove]

It's a Gargoyle Zapper

[soft willow]

If a Rhino can fit ten fully armored Space Marines, a Sagitaur can fit ten dwarves.

[rocky shale]

Tbh most of the time being able to split a small generalist battleline unit is a benefit

[soft willow]

It gets a little awkward for Warriors as you can only get your 5++ with one half.

But you can do a good shooty/fighty split now.

Or add a Khal and get the 5++ on both halves by sending the Khal/Thane to different sides.

[upper bluff]

It is a benefit but I don't like it mechanically

[sonic hare]

bigger

[mental birch]

Centurion brain

[tranquil ivy]

should i waste my money for a squad of female dragon space marines 👁️

[pastel rampart]

The question should be "why have I not done that yet"

[pastel rampart]

Positively cheap compared to GW prices, psh.

[tranquil ivy]

Expensive

[tranquil ivy]

I'm getting heads, torsos and five "tearing people apart" arms

i'd still need to buy a GW set for them

question is what would work best for a squad of dragon women 👁️

I am playing Firestorm btdubz

im thinking either Hellblasters or Eradicators

[mental birch]

Eradicator

1. big women
2. small squad size fits dragon

[mental birch]

Bladeguard?

[tranquil ivy]

I already have a Bladeguard squad :]

[mental birch]

Aww

Tearing people apart sadly muhreens don't have more dedicated melee units

Wait do assault termies still exist?

[tranquil ivy]

They do but Firestorm isnt very solid for them

[mental birch]

Not even popping out of a land Raider to charge heaps?

Helps

[tranquil ivy]

Bladeguard and Aggressors do their job better

[mental birch]

Aww

[sour sequoia]

Reivers

[upper bluff]

So true

Reivers in 11th are gonna be good for sure 😭

[thin ibex]

werent they a little good for a bit cause they were dirt cheap as an enemy side deepstriker?

[upper bluff]

🤷‍♂️

[floral herald]

Those were a different kind of Phobos Phellas iirc

Reivers kick ass in kill team!

[sour sequoia]

Vanguard Strikeforce still can kick it AIUI

Marines Become GSC level movement tech

[west zealot]

Turning the squats got squatted joke into a hardcore nid hunter is great, and I say that as a big Tyrannid fan

[west zealot]

Also the nids: "no, really, fuck the blood Angels. And chaos. I'm making a hive fleet just to fuck up chaos after that shit it pulled"

[charred bridge]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/XwRrCYSMCG

[charred bridge]

How many purity seals can you slap on armor

Bonus points for wax purity seals on lit wax candles

[paper bluff]

I am the khorne player

[charred bridge]

I still see armor that's not enough

[cinder wraith]

im good at painting eyes

bad at batch painting (world eaters for HH btw)

[pulsar cairn]

ya know

if i asked tzeench for a bird

he would probably just give me a regular parrot

they can be real bastards

[snow shuttle]

The dog is my reaction to finishing all these in a few hours.

[soft willow]

I really badly want to do this with a Knight with regular sized Purity Seals.

[uneven ember]

https://www.tumblr.com/sefusneezed/791457435006173184/they-might-be-a-little-bit-stupid-your-honor

[charred bridge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/saXkItW9Pgc?si=IpwNiaDO2fjuviVN

The disrespect with that punch that could have sent an elephant

[charred bridge]

That right one is how you get tech heretics

Only what the STCs say
-# even if you have to make the STC yourself

[pulsar cairn]

do chapter serfs also go to war alongside the marines? if so do they fight as well or just stay in support roles?

[main pagoda]

they can do both, serfs depending on the chapter ofc often serve as pilots but they are primarily support for the deployed marine

[pulsar cairn]

that's neat

[uneven ember]

it's also mostly chapter serfs operating the fleet (well it's mostly servitors, but it's mostly chapter serfs for the non-lobotomized personnel)
which you could argue is the biggest part of a Space Marine chapter's combat strength

[paper bluff]

I would assume serfs do all the cleaning

With some of the weapons and armor

[thin ibex]

It also somewhat depends on the chapter

Ultramarines have great respect for their serfs and they perform a myriad of support and combat roles

I think many chapters do not have the same regard for their serfs

And in some cases may have outright disdain for them for being normal humans

[main pagoda]

flesh tearers serfs are basically playing survival horror

[paper bluff]

most blood angels serfs really

[uneven ember]

I feel like a lot of BA serfs would mostly have a really good time of things
but you always have the worry that the Battle Brother gets into one of his funny little moods

[upper bluff]

I wonder if the serfs are even allowed to know about the black rage and stuff

[upper canopy]

I don't think the Black Rage is a secret

[upper bluff]

Is it not?

Maybe I'm just thinking of the Dark Angels and their secrecy kink

[upper canopy]

Sanguinius kept is a secret from the Emperor

but like

The Death Company isn't subtle

[floral herald]

The serfs have to know

[upper bluff]

Yeah I guess it's hard to hide that when they dress all black and call everybody Horus

[floral herald]

Like someone’s cleaning the D-coy quarters and someone’s cleaning that up

[uneven ember]

I did also write up a thing for my own Templars years back
the serfs on my Crusade's Battle Barge are collectively descended from citizens of Holy Terra itself, when it was commissioned in the aftermath of the Reign of Blood and the second siege of the Imperial Palace

now, we know that voidborn are highly likely to produce psykers, and with Templars and their subjects this is obviously a worry for the serfs to keep a keen eye out for, but after some commendable but overly enthusiastic purges started to interfere with the ship's day to day functions, the Marshal imposed a rule that serfs were not to execute suspected psykers without approval from an Initiate of the Chapter

all of which, naturally, is an overly wordy excuse for a Monty Python reference ("my lord, we have found a witch")

[tired cairn]

I wonder if it's how the Dwarves in Dwarf Fortress are shockingly indifferent (or were when I last played) to someone being killed by a Fel mood

[uneven ember]

"whatchagonnado"

also still think it's funny that the Knights of Blood kept on getting dragged in front of the High Lords for trials of "secret traitors who also kill a lot of Xenos or slightly more teamkill-y than normal loyalist Blood Angel successors"

[uneven ember]

https://bsky.app/profile/hazelmonforton.com/post/3lvyhhidrg22n

dr. hazel 🐝 (@hazelmonforton.com)

Not to worry. I have a Warrant of Trade.

#warhammer40k @owlcatgames.bsky.social

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Bluesky · Aug 9, 2025, 7:04 PM

[thin ibex]

this popped up on my feed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYCDDEn2AY4

[sour sequoia]

The last other GSC player in a 130 mile radius has quit the faction and is selling their army

To me

Finally I am queen fuck of trash mountain

[upper canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/sup-fortnite-victory-royale-gif-12432127

[upper bluff]

Smh didn't sell to a new player and continue the curse

[sour sequoia]

Honestly at 35 GSC tourney reps and abt the same amount of casual games now I think I still count as new

I’m just also a turbo freak who’s painted like 4k points of em in two months

Do Not Do This I’m so glad I’ll never have to speedpaint that much again

[mental birch]

Which of the two GSC players are you?

The two kinds of GSC playeds

[sour sequoia]

I didn’t know there was brands of GSC

Didn’t realize there were enough of us

[jagged dawn]

that’s the idea, soon the revolution will begin

[tranquil ivy]

I wish I played something that needed Terminators because i want an excuse to use my Battlefield Trophies sprue to put a battle damaged helmet on a Terminator captain

[tranquil ivy]

turns out it actually works

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iF1d-UbfiE

[tranquil ivy]

would this work as a Lieutenant to y'all?

[thin ibex]

Yeah why not

I like the extra long chainsword

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1404563210186522814/how_to_play_warhammer_Nerdy_Encounters_7536538480340520214-no-watermark.mov?ex=689ba4ec&is=689a536c&hm=6580802259ca23138e30f30f3c00d26f5ab79938b8c98a73e81e939bc9871c7c&

[gray basalt]

Based

Best way to play Warhammer

[desert jay]

This is just Crusade rules

[charred bridge]

Warhammer is basically a drama simulator anyways

It all started with the Necrons

Those petty little guys

[rocky shale]

Crusade is when I stack buffs on knights until I get to live out my final boss fantasy

[west zealot]

I mean, Horus did kinda do the ff boss shenanigans, hot until oh no it's a gribbly

[past sphinx]

His name is Wolf lord Beef Williams

halfway done through halfway on these termies

[pulsar cairn]