Warhammer and Such

[hardy harness]

The way he just somehow painted on light being cast onto the model is fucking nuts

[runic swallow]

Yeah, it’s pretty nuts to see that kind of painting skill

I’ve seen it in person, it’s nuts to know people do that

[pine matrix]

Niiiice

[mental birch]

Cathay haaha

[charred bridge]

Painting on the lighting is next level

The things people think of to do little tricks to make details pop with the minis are kind of wild

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/katymo.bsky.social/post/3lt5zqkdias2d

Katy (She/They) (@katymo.bsky.social)

Me whenever there's a Warhammer announcement day.

Likes

105

Bluesky · Jul 4, 2025, 7:59 PM

[west zealot]

The headless legion matched forth!

Except for Jim & Stan, who are honorary members

[mental birch]

Hahaah

Just wanted to have the bodies done first

[west zealot]

Headless legion amazingly successful, no longer headless

[mental birch]

Yeah

Hahaha

[charred bridge]

The headlessless legion

[thin ibex]

those cathay models looks sick

[west zealot]

Kinda want to see a legion with horse heads, mounted on horses with human heads.

"Alright, who spiked Bile's drink? Come on, fess up"

[charred bridge]

Get just a regular legion, the horseless headedman

[raw vessel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1093348144831533116/1391028231976652884/image0.jpg?ex=686a677e&is=686915fe&hm=60ab1f50d9a0363b9f7b7f61bc1994eaf4644dbb4d0ee498717dcf9b86e54517&

[dense idol]

drukhari-type behaviour

[charred bridge]

Ah yes the Astrampoline

[main pagoda]

Saturday Pre-orders – Take the plunge with the Idoneth Deepkin - Warhammer Community https://share.google/jCXh4RY1wCP9MK6tc

Don't think this got posted but please GW give us more non character units

[upper canopy]

Me and a friend have decided our two characters from the same planet went to the Schola together

and deciding that the vibe of it was "Slice of life high school anime but with incredibly brutal violence interspread"

[quaint compass]

Yo, Legio!

[pastel rampart]

https://www.tumblr.com/historitor-bookshelf/788304181481160704?source=share

[west zealot]

Haha, that's lovely

[west zealot]

Hey, that man is glowing green. Necron! Tech Hersey!

[still warren]

I wish, this is probably still better than getting most of your lore from r/grimdank

[floral herald]

man if only the situation was that good

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/596197650332778498/1391536512335609997/IMG_2364.jpg?ex=686c40de&is=686aef5e&hm=c1c4c1297832a7f3b09bc3daed45b645d9d0ed0d415b1a4025441f491da47aec&

[charred bridge]

More accurate than 40k discussion threads, less fun fan theories trying to pretend to be canon

[charred bridge]

You'd think he'd see this coming

[tired cairn]

Just Drukhari things:

[junior robin]

adds "40k alien Pastiche but with dark eldar and ravagers" to list of movies that need to me made

[west zealot]

What's that from?

[humble plover]

its a blurb about the new Raveners from the Typhon Dossier

[charred bridge]

Do you want tyrannids in Commorragh? This is how you get tyrannids in Commorragh

[potent jewel]

If anything I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often

[pine matrix]

Tyranids getting robbed in a dark alley by Deldar street urchins

[deft crest]

Aint much in the way of plentiful biomass in commorragh if you ask me (compared to like a real ass planet i mean)

[upper canopy]

Theres billions of slaves

[paper bluff]

shame they would never get to Mr. the Infinite, he could have told them don't try to capture tyranids

[charred bridge]

It's like a clown car but food inside many weird hidden spaces

[upper canopy]

Plus Comorrogh is already getting routinely worse

Daemons wiped out a good portion of it and are now endemic, a huge portion of the Kabals were wiped out or exiled, Vect proclaimed himself a god etc etc

Throw Tyranids at it too

[junior robin]

it was at least just ravagers, they could have some genestealers on the loose. adds "genestealer vs DE predator pastiche" to movie list

[thin ibex]

Isn't comorrogh kind of like... ever expanding/ mega huge and not at all a single city within any normal frame of reference?

Like a full battle company of space marines is usually more than enough to take a planet, but am entire... was it salamanders company came in via one of Vect's schemes and they only kinda scorched one part right?

[upper canopy]

Yes Comorrogh is mega-huge like a planet

However it is also actively falling apart

[thin ibex]

Ah so things are Not Good™ in Sadist-town

[floral herald]

Comorrogh is like if The City (Blame) was full of mean elves more than anything else

[upper canopy]

Yeah Ynnead's awakening cracked the Gate of Khaine

And then there was massive civil war

[thin ibex]

This is all probably just one big Vect scheme. Totally.

[upper canopy]

and then there was another one

and then Vect did a big scheme to proclaim himself a god and did another big civil war

[thin ibex]

Vect: "This was all according to my twisted web of plans you see"
(Holy fuck, what the shit is happening!? Did that actually work? Oh man, they're gonna figure me out!)

[charred bridge]

iirc its got a lot sf spacial warp nonsense once you are in wherever it is. Imperium in a sense lucked out by killing drukhari and finding a gate in per vect's plan to have everyone of their rivals die

Bigger on the inside or something

[thin ibex]

"Haha, I'll fake my own death once again!"
(actually dies this time)

[charred bridge]

Was this vects or the vects clone

And it turned out like vects clone might have been vects? (might be a youtube fan theory idk)

[thin ibex]

Vect furiously releasing fan theories under a smurf account on the same day he faked his death

[charred bridge]

He probably lost his own plot

[finite compass]

I mean, IIRC he did actually die

He just got better

[upper canopy]

He got killed during Soulstorm canonically clearly

Gorgutz put him in a cage and threw him

[main pagoda]

aiui comorrogh is basically a city made up of dozens of small little realms stitched together in the webway

[west zealot]

Oh, no, there's just the dark Eldar nobles grafting nid body parts to themselves for kicks, and getting all weird and cultish, it's fine

And good ol Urikaan has an entire nid infested planet in orbit of one part of Comorragh.

Honestly, I just assume there's a bunch of lictors etc running around. It's probably genuinely not a big deal.

Though it would be very funny to have "a tendril of Kronos invades, seeking to wipe out the drukhari to weaken chaos"

[tired cairn]

Can the Hivemind even reliably get fleets into the webway?

[west zealot]

Doubtfu, since I believe Drukhari can shut down the gates, at least the comorragh side ones

[tired cairn]

lol, all the Drukhari are indifferent because a few more assassins doesn't change anything

[west zealot]

(and that's how they often deal with things going to shit, just jettison that part of the city)

That said we know sufficiently powerful psykers can force the gates open, so a doom of malanti situation could happen

[floral herald]

Maybe not reliably but the Tyranids managed an incursion into the web way during the battle of bastior

[west zealot]

I suspect sufficiently motivated, the hive mind could do it

But why bother when you can keep gravity jacking planets and having a good ol nom nom

The webway offers a bunch of potential, but it's also filled with a bunch of annoyances and problems that the hive mind hates. So why bother right now?

You eat the meat before you crack bones to get at the narrow

[floral herald]

Well, it is way faster

But also it might be uh

Hard to move a huge fleet through haha

They are very large

[tired cairn]

There are some big gates. But they are pretty limited (and I don't know if deldar ships get quite as big as a hive ship)

[floral herald]

I don’t think the individual ships are too big so much as the webway wasn’t designed for that kind of throughput

[tired cairn]

Is it ever established how the synaptic hierarchy works? Like do you need a hive ship around a planet to get a reliable "signal" or does any given synaptic creature directly channel the Hivemind effectively regardless of how far other ones are?

[tired cairn]

Hive fleet invasion blocked due to traffic jam would be pretty funny

[floral herald]

My vague understanding is that it varies by organism but is ranged limited from the “bulk” of a tyranid force

Like the fleets and such

But vanguard organisms like gene stealers or zoats or the new raveners can maintain enough connection to share intel

Even if they’re acting independently under their own sapience

[tired cairn]

Gene stealers had "brood mind" (kind of a weaker hive mind in miniature) type lore for at least a bit

[jaunty dawn]

Brood telepathy yeah

[thin ibex]

i thought they sort of still did

its what lets them act independently

[jaunty dawn]

The real deep cut is biovores had it initially ;P

[tired cairn]

lmao why

[jaunty dawn]

Probably mostly for gameplay reasons

[tired cairn]

I'm mostly hedging because I haven't read any of the GSC books lol

[jaunty dawn]

So you didnt have to leave a synapse creature with your artillery

[floral herald]

Yeah it was mostly so they didn’t require expensive babysitting

[jaunty dawn]

Though vaguely possible it was an ork reference

Ummm

So the thing about genestealers is that they are capable of completely independent operation

[tired cairn]

Oh, that makes sense

Whoops. Wrong reply

[jaunty dawn]

And are like human tier intelligent or w/e

[tired cairn]

(to avoid babysitting makes sense)

[jaunty dawn]

And outside synapse contact they like

[tired cairn]

Hmm. Interesting. It's also interesting that most of the time the independent organisms are pretty happy to return to the fold. Are there any stories about how they feel about that

[jaunty dawn]

Send intel by having to physically make contact and get absorbed

Or by doing the genestealer cult thing which is just making a psychic beacon

[tired cairn]

(iirc the ymgarl genestealers keep trying to chase down hive fleets to be reabsorbed but said hive fleets usually refuse because they are so unstable)

[tired cairn]

Hmm. I think lictors are also mentioned to create some form of psychic beacon to attract fleets if things are going well

[thin ibex]

lictors are part of an invasion vanguard right?

[tired cairn]

Typically

[thin ibex]

its the genestealers that eventually foment into creating a strong enough psychic summons to attract a hive fleet

[tired cairn]

I might be thinking of old 3e lore on this front

Or there are multiple ways to summon a hive fleet lol

[floral herald]

There’s not a lot

Tyranids are apparently very good at vanguard organism alignment

[jaunty dawn]

Theres definitely some stories where like

[floral herald]

that said there are rogue zoats

[jaunty dawn]

Genestealers or whatever avoid being reabsorbed

[floral herald]

And some the hive mind won’t take back like Ymgarl

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

[charred bridge]

I always saw each synapse capable nid to be like an extension of one organism with one will/soul and so its akin to like a blood cell that can survive outside of your but would rather be inside you

[tired cairn]

I want a story about a demi-genestealers talking about how sad it is that it was removed from the hive mind by some techpriest/inquisitor that nabbed it for interrogation from some doomed world

(and yeah some GSC cults fight back once the Tyranids actually invade because every faction has to face a reason to fight every faction)

[pine matrix]

Yep, if you're just controlled by the Patriarch psychically or aren't fully nidded out, when the Patriarch is absorbed psychiclly back into the hive mind you can basically wake up and realise the "angels" are actually horrors from beyond

But by then it's too late

[charred bridge]

Sometimes they keep you indoctrinated until like right before you're fully dissolved in the spires goop

They don't need to spend that iota of resources keeping you under their influence you're halfway dissolved at that point

[runic swallow]

No no, the spires move the goop the pools make the goop

[quaint compass]

Well the pools are at the base of the spires

More efficient that way

[tired cairn]

I like to imagine it's not always mind control.

"When the Tyranids come, they are going to eat you too!"
"Well yeah, but the important part is they are also going to eat all the nobles"

[desert jay]

"If I surrender at this point, will the Imperium spare me?" "Well, uh..." "Then I expect my life expectancy is longer siding with the bugs"

[charred bridge]

Depends how you define life, you'll definitely will be useful for a long time

[uneven ember]

I have also said this before but I do like the idea of GSCs as the same sort of unnerving as some of the (very nice!) people I've known who were really looking forward to the literal Left Behind style apocalypse that they thought was going to very concretely happen within the next few years

[west zealot]

This is almost literally the plot of Day of Ascension.

Where the genestealer cultists are basically "Even if the angels are horric, they're less than the horror that you, the mechanicus inflcito n us"

[humble plover]

Genestealer cult army with like 200 points of just normal guardsmen who joined up because the other option was getting sent into the meatgrinder by the Imperium and treated like shit the entire time for their troubles

[floral herald]

Being a genestealer cultist seems like a pretty good deal until the end tbh

There's a planet in Imperium Maledictum which is this agri world which is like falling apart from rival cults spreading around it and they're like

• khorne
• slaanesh
• nurgle
• tzeentch
• normal(?) but bald

[uneven ember]

HER: And on the glorious Day of Ascension, the Children of the Stars will descend in their glory to wipe away the iniquity and cruelty of mankind's sins, granting our highest purpose as the base matter of the perfect organism
ME, WATCHING HER MANDABLES TWITCH WHEN SHE GETS EXCITED INSTEAD OF LISTENING that's so interesting haha

[floral herald]

And the Inquisition is kind of split on if the bald ones are ok

[uneven ember]

this rules
love the "they seem to be seeking to carry their heresy to other worlds for unknown but nefarious purpose. or maybe space-Idaho just sucks idk"

[brittle salmon]

kelermorph eternal sweep

[uneven ember]

& always love "Khorne cult that's barely distinguishable from the normal Imperial murder cults"

[upper canopy]

It takes decades for the hive fleet to show up

so until then you just kinda get to join "The cult where bald people really want to have sex with you"

[pulsar cairn]

Isnt it possible they never show up?

[runic swallow]

Potentially!

[pulsar cairn]

[uneven ember]

it can be!
to a degree, having a GSC presence on planet is basically ringing the dinner bell for the Hive Mind so maybe sooner or later someone shows up

but also it's a big galaxy, so maybe there's no Hive Fleet around or making its way over, and/or the 'stealers were vanguards for a fleet that got wiped out so now it's just if any nids get close enough to notice

[past sphinx]

necromunda is so fucked that despite having GSC like texas has baptists the hive actively avoids it

this could all be fixed if they continued the use of Zoats!

[upper canopy]

Clearly the hive is terrified of the Corpsegrinder Cults

[sour sequoia]

I live in that neck of the woods, not-space-idaho just does this to you honestly

I have also become a GSC freak in the last two months, fancy that

I uh, ended up with over 5k of it for like $800 total

[west zealot]

There's a very funny line in The Long and Hungry Road about a tzench cult finding the apocalypse has come... Except it's the wrong one

"A cell of mad followers of the Lord of Change awaken to find their world has been overrun by the wrong apocalyps"

[upper canopy]

Hmmmmm

Should I make a Khornate Daemon from scratch that possessed my DH boy

or should I go with a Crusher

[dense sedge]

I feel like I’ve heard of a gsc uprising that occurred as a result of a haemonculi stitching a purestrains arm to himself as a weapon and advertedly getting his dna altered to start creating a cult

[west zealot]

It's a whole subculture in the nobility

Lemme dig it up

The Vorgani

https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/8ahcia/dark_eldar_genestealer_cults_8th_ed_drukhari_codex/

[charred bridge]

Huh I never thought about Eldar GSC before

Or Tau, but that's like many races

[gray basalt]

Part of it is humans are just more populous so human GSC is insanely common compared to any other kind

[charred bridge]

Im surprised Hive worlds even exist, i'd assume they're ticking time bombs just waiting for a GSC to draw tyranids to them

I guess the imperium's long history of purging chaos cultists is a similar skillset to seeking out GSC

[upper canopy]

The main thing about most other races is that they have

1. Universal healthcare and thus an infection is quickly noted
2. Tell people what Genestealers are
3. Instinctively kill any infected individuals

Wondering if I should just roll up a Khornate Daemon

[jagged dawn]

We recall there being a ciaphas Cain novel where at the end he realizes some tau were infected by genestealers

[faint galleon]

yeah that's Cain 1

He probably looks to Amberly Vail to ask "should we tell them" and she just smiles or something

[pine matrix]

ABR, always be rolling

[quaint compass]

ABC
Always
Be
Corn

[upper canopy]

Only problem is Tome of corruption did not survive computers

[brittle salmon]

I'll find a way to get it to you cheap when I wake up if you don't have it in like 8 hours or so

[west zealot]

Eldar are in the "very hard to, but not impossible" camp due gsc.

They exist, but it's nearly unheard of because of the slow reproduction rate, psychic powers etc.

Tau Genestealers... Well, they've accidentally Genestealered one of their own planets and possibly an ethereal, it's probably fine.

Outside of that Earth Caste whoopsydoodle, the regimented caste system and eugenics the tau practice make it really hard for the cult to get rolling.

Hrud are apparently super vulnerable to it in the lore.

Orkstealers happen, but mainly to blood axes/commandos - Orks have a pretty instinctive "e's not Orky enough" which leads to them krumping gits, but it does happen

Kroot can also smell Genestealers, and failing that, they can taste a bit of the flesh - Theyhate nid/stealer flesh and find it repulsive. So that also really crimps the tau's style

I dunno if there's any lore on Vespoid/genestealer interactions

[thin ibex]

i imagine a lot of orky anti genestealer isnt even about anti genestealer, its about krumping some weak looking boyz

[west zealot]

"A lone Genestealer from Hive Fleet Gorgon reaches the Tau sept world of Ksi’m’yen. The creature is captured by the planet’s Earth caste scientists and subjected to extensive analysis, resulting in a lowly worker being implanted with a measure of germ-seed. The grotesque anatomies that spring up in the laboratories are seen as curios rather than blasphemous by the ever-inquisitive Earth caste, for the Tau approach to alien life forms is founded on the concept of acceptance and tolerance. When the research divisions experience a bloody schism twenty years later, the Fire caste are called in, only to find many subterranean research facilities overrun. Ksi’m’yen is consumed by war, and quarantined for almost ten years before the eccentric Ethereal Aun’ghol declares it productive and clean."

[thin ibex]

shadowsun also torched an entire hive city due to human genestealers

iirc

[junior robin]

finally, the emperors potion sellers primaris Lieutenant

[pastel rampart]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/167631865622 This is some cool shit

[still warren]

Halfing apothecary for COS obviously

[charred bridge]

My headcanon is that either genestealer isn't ork enough and pretty much dies quickly in a fight or killed by another ork. Or if they're too ork then during a waaagh they become too good at being an Ork and just become a fully fledged ork with no ties to nids at all, just a weird looking ork

I would want this to be true even if it's not how it works

[upper canopy]

CKG'GFFIL
Warped Appearance (10 mutations)
Glowing Spots
Lightning Touch
Elastic Limbs
Evil Eye
Fangs
Goat Horns
Grappling Hand
Poison Gas Breath
Noisy Marrow

Amazing

The daemon was a spindly thing of electric death. It hummed and buzzed with smog and ozone, brass plates of an armored column now floated above an ephemeral flame of plasma and burning gas. It's "limbs" were like afterthoughts, trailing behind the main body limply until they were needed for the act of violence.

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dLhqvTK0gfk

[finite compass]

Orks also have one of my favorite blurbs on them, from the old Regimental Standard stuff

[west zealot]

Is that the one about the patriork?

[finite compass]

Yes

``

Some of da boyz from Octarius got their mekz to loot some of da dakka from da tirry-nids. Works pretty well if you keep ’em fed. You can get sum from Ulg Lotsarms and his boyz, just smack ‘im in da gob if he keeps talkin’ about “Gork and Mork but wiv four arms for hittin’ people” and “the patriork” and uvver rubbish.``

Same one that also had the best Ork take on Daemons

Rememba when da ladz got togetha and put all da skullz in a pile and did a dance for a laugh and da sky went all red and Ozgob said “Da Time Of Blood Has Come” in a funny voice and a bunch of red ladz came through da walls and we had a fight and it woz great?

[west zealot]

I'm still mad they seemed to have offline regimental standard

[finite compass]

Yeah...

The Canid one was also hilarious

"To prevent unwarranted feelings of superiority amongst Guardsmen, Canids technically have junior officer rank. This does mean that violating a direct order from your Canid is punishable by death" *

• "In the event of clear verbal orders from your Canid, please self-report for psychological evaluation upon completion of said orders."

[upper canopy]

My favorite one was the "DO NOT DIG A TRENCH DURING A BOARDING ACTION"

and it was just a clipart of a guardsman falling out of the bottom of a space ship

[west zealot]

https://web.archive.org/web/20181102093700/https://regimental-standard.com/2018/10/10/your-guide-to-dakka/

I managed to find a way back of the Dakka complete with it's images

[finite compass]

"Hot Dakka is Dakka that uses big square bullitz" *

• "Sometimes they’re called “battrees” becoz they’re good for batterin’ people wiv."

"Some ‘umies carry hot dakka called “lasguns”. We don’t know what it’s for but Wazglab finks that it’s for pointin’ out people to krump. You can strap one to yer slugga as a lazer sight."

[west zealot]

The funny bit is that's actually correct re the origin of the word battery

[thin ibex]

i know like a part of Orks existing is to get jobbed, but I feel they need a narrative win to make people remember they arent just a punching bag

[upper canopy]

Genuinely

[west zealot]

Read Mike Brooks ork novels

They krump a forge world & invade and get out of cormorragh again.

[sour sequoia]

Honestly some credit to Space Marine 2 of all things for making a warboss feel/sound like a freight train

[thin ibex]

Space marine 2 or 1?

[sour sequoia]

Oh wait no I think it’s 1 that had the orks

[thin ibex]

yee

[sour sequoia]

Either way, ‘gets dogpiled by bloodletters, casually takes a lap around the room to then walk back in, interrupt the chaos lord monologue and then sends him to brazil’ was good

Cool magic brah im gonna put a power klaw through your jaw now

[thin ibex]

Definitely

I feel like the threat of a warboss is often understated

[floral herald]

https://youtu.be/Uox82AiheLI?si=eaeZ7SFEJJZusiFD

It’s a good line

Bisexual lighting ork

[upper canopy]

He falls off that same railing twice in one cutscene

[finite compass]

Also who can forget Kaptin Bludflagg

Who is literally the only character in the entire game to deduce Kyras's whereabouts by himself without otherwise being informed or told about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0vDQWMJNbE

[bright dove]

Bludflagg is fantastic

Also steals an Inquisitor's hat

[finite compass]

His entire motivation is acquiring the hat

[bright dove]

Well, and fun fights

[finite compass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6kh1jfyCrw

[runic swallow]

Everybody a big man until the ork starts using his inside voice

[finite compass]

I still think the BFG Armada Ork intro was perfect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgu_fBlSjk

"Every screen'z gone RED! DAT MEANS I'M SUPA-FAST!"

[sour sequoia]

Thank u battlefleet gothic for making the xenos ballin

[west zealot]

I appreciate the Ork talking about hiding in lava, and "Mork knows I won't be trying that again"

Honestly impressed he lived long enough to conclude it's a bad idea

[thin ibex]

what do yall think is the right detachment to run a TauNar in?

https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/list/M5OvM

[uneven ember]

I was fond of the bit about Tau aircraft's weakness in adhering to the disproven "science" of aerodynamics

[charred bridge]

You only have to follow newtonian physics if you're primitive - Necrons

[west zealot]

That's honestly a very good summary of the imperium's issues in a nutshell

[charred bridge]

Its why orks like fighting humans

The tanks makes big noise and rumbles ground

Everyone shouts and many booms just for a the whole area

[west zealot]

And they make forts for you to knock over and krump!

Orks do not understnad why they get mad about you knocking them over and krumping them tho

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813151700222214164/1392250897915973632/image0.jpg?ex=686eda30&is=686d88b0&hm=db0987a2acb1751fcd23ea650ed22eb56f342ea90c82c3e2253a3a67ad23ce21&

[west zealot]

I'm very c onfused

but as long as the ultramine is having fun

[upper bluff]

The pauldrons being gigantic are like chibi anime characters having massive eyes

It has to remain recognizable

[pulsar cairn]

i think the death watch is really cool

just the idea of marines from different chapters combining stuff sounds like potential for a lot of fun stuff

[rocky shale]

Unfortunately none of that aspect makes it's way to the game lol

[gray basalt]

I saw Death and I got really excited to talk about Death Guard

[pulsar cairn]

that sucks :c

[charred bridge]

Someone skipped pauldron day

[empty siren]

YIPPEE I FIXED MY AIRBRUSH

I haven't used an airbrush before

But I built and primed a model so I think it's prolly a good idea to try it out at least once

What colour should I do for a broadside with rail rifle?

[rocky shale]

All of them

[empty siren]

It was primed black

[rocky shale]

Black

[empty siren]

Oh sweet that's easy

Okay I'm done painting it black already

I was thinking this could be a neat color for a charging effect

[empty siren]

Oh I should try an urban camo effect for the model

[runic swallow]

Real camo, worn by real Chinese marines!

Or, hear me out, the horrific PLANMC oceanic camo

Augh it posted in the wrong order

[upper bluff]

See if the camo is painted the same colors as the globe than it will work anywhere!

🌍 🌎

[mental birch]

Do you want people to hand paint digicam

True suffering?

[past sphinx]

thats just sponge work!

[runic swallow]

Yeah

Or doing a bigger pattern that gives the eternal idea

[mental birch]

Digicam is square tho

[past sphinx]

just use a square sponge

[runic swallow]

Right, but you’re working at a scale

Tiny squares might as well be dots, or even big splotches of the vague pattern as long as it gets the impression across

It’s just like how you’re not painting or modeling tiny leather cracking on models gear, you paint the more notable creases

[mental birch]

Fair just I see the PLA tanks and big square digicam

[runic swallow]

Oh, that you can do with tape

Or just a ruler and pencil to mark it out

[pastel rampart]

Or nail plates.

[runic swallow]

Yeah

[pastel rampart]

Which honestly that'd be one of the easier ways of doing it, because you can just use a stamper for it.

[west zealot]

It's very funny how Ordo Xenos has like no tabletop representation

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/tempura-person.bsky.social/post/3ltj5gmqh4k2y

Tempura Person (the OG) (@tempura-person.bsky.social)

To be a horse in such times is to be one amongst untold billions.

Likes

146

Bluesky · Jul 9, 2025, 6:04 AM

[mental birch]

Is called deathwatch

[upper canopy]

Theres also like 5 named xenos inquisitors

[pastel rampart]

Ordo Xenos was supposed to get a codex back in 3rd but that never materialized.

[pine matrix]

Goldshi is sad cause they're putting her as a front runner

[pulsar cairn]

Is cawl also a heresy veteran?

[main pagoda]

Yes

He was kicking around

[pulsar cairn]

Neat

He's old as balls then

[mental birch]

He's technically also a crusade veteran

Hahaha

[desert jay]

I think part of him is a Unification Wars veteran

[still warren]

So chorfs are confirmed for Friday, what are people thinking will be their aos spin?

[pine matrix]

I do wonder how they're gonna compete with the steampunky dwarves, in total war they have that kinda vibe

Maybe they'll lean super heavily into the "demon powered" aspect, so their tech is actually pretty advanced, if fueled by blood sacrifice

I'm also pretty interested how Hashut is gonna shake into all this, with the Horned Rat now and official chaos god, is he going to try and break in and become the sixth?

[still warren]

I don't think so, Hashut has always been pretty ok with staying in his own lane away from the big 4 (or 5). I could see chorfs getting mechanized infantry instead of hobgoblins or orc slaves

[tepid stratus]

Hobgrots as a shared unit between chorfs and kruleboyz would make sense. They work for both and buy their gear from the chorfs

[still warren]

Actually they might get human cultists going off of warcry

[quaint compass]

Then again, pretty much everyone got human cultists through Warcry

[west zealot]

Wait they are? Sick.

[west zealot]

At least one part, probably more. The whole Cawl Brain Orchestra

[uneven ember]

As part of a series of Inquisition codecies that made the Sisters into the Hereticus' military arm for like five minutes

[paper bluff]

Parts of him mind are even older and worked directly with the emperor

[pulsar cairn]

How does that work?

Did he like grab the robo brains of other members of the cult mechanicum?

[upper canopy]

He has AI brains

[charred bridge]

He just makes definitely not AI brains

Cause abomitable intelligence is heresy

The mini Cawl who wishes to be fabricator general is not AI, cawl said so winky face

[uneven ember]

Wow it's like every authority figure in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future either end run or openly flout the rules they claim to be divinely ordained commands while countless billions suffer for relatively trivial infractions or something

I wonder if the guys who wrote them realize they messed up like that

[pulsar cairn]

I want a mini cawl for myself

[charred bridge]

Well cawl is sort of emps backup plan for mechanicus and one of the few people besides Robert Girlyman to know what emps actually wanted for the imperium

[pulsar cairn]

i think the shit he does is kinda funny

Granted the gruesome shit he most definitely does probably would ruin that for me

[charred bridge]

He's like the only innovator amongst admech and knows emps didn't want complete stagnation in tech just avoid the men of iron incident so no AI but the ad mech and imperium as a whole has changed in a way he knows it's not a good idea to invent, you just go "find" an STC for like better geneseeds or titans or whatever

[upper bluff]

I love Cawl. Dude is cool

Bro should "discover" some new tech for the Admech in 11th

Although my actual dream for 11th edition Admech is that a character from the Mechanicus Game either 1 or 2 gets made into an epic hero

[hard whale]

dude should actually rediscover some of the robots they had in 30k

[upper bluff]

James workshop won't allow it 😞 Even the magically possessed robots for Tsons weren't even 30k automata

Although I do actually like those robots

[past sphinx]

their a really nice addition that isnt just a variety of scarab

[hard whale]

oh yeah, they've got to compete with each other. Well, they can just make a slightly worse looking robot for 40k just like the 30k team made a slightly better looking leman russ

[upper bluff]

Yeah and it definitely shows that the creative team has some cool ass ancient robot designs swimming sround

[paper bluff]

You ever play cyberpunk 2077? Well imagine relic where there is the everything that is a person (thoughts, memories, personality, etc.) And in the lore there is a dark age tech that takes all that and writes it onto an existing brain. It's just that Cawl's personality ended up winning rather than the scientist

Cawl's kinda been using it for a while to keep bringing back his best friend and take in new minds

[paper bluff]

It would be funny if due to what Cawl's mind is, that Cawl inferior has an ever so slightly different personality in charge

[jaunty dawn]

They still use them lore wise they dont even need to rediscover them

[upper bluff]

Cawl should rediscover GW's old policy of cross game miniatures

Like if I could use Automata but not tech thralls I would probably still buy both. In fact make the battle boxes have at least one model that can be used in multiple games that way I am incentivized to buy the ones that aren't

[raw vessel]

It does! Cawl has no desire to become fabricator general of mars, but cawl inferior does.

[west zealot]

It is bizarre they apparently have a policy against this

Just absolute ??? To me

[upper bluff]

It is absolutely wild. The amount of stories I've heard about people playing AoS or 40k because they already had the demons for either is way too high for it to be a reasonable policy

[west zealot]

I keep hearing something about it being them wanting to keep sales per game or something?

But I don't actually know

It just seems very short sighted if that's actually the case.

[sour sequoia]

Daemons specifically are the one case they’re continuing to allow really, and yeah its for ease of tracking so they can actually know how healthy/selling a game is. Warcry was the worst offender AIUI - lots of stuff dogshit in AoS or in Warcry and then absurdly good in the other game

[west zealot]

That seems... Yup, I'm throwing my hands up, corporations are weird

[jaunty dawn]

Theoretically the argument is that knowing which range provides the best return on investment is more valuable than wider appeal for individual products

But its also inconsistent cause like. Kill team and 40k is acceptable brand synergy, but underworlds and aos is reduced support

But at the same time while there could be logic from private data it could also just be the whim of a random exec

[soft willow]

The rumor I heard is that the Heresy devs requested it to better track what they hell they were doing, vs what they were getting from 40k.

[west zealot]

Very much feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me

[jaunty dawn]

I mean for one thing like

[soft willow]

GW does a lot of things that seem questionable from a business perspective.

And have for a long time.

[jaunty dawn]

Heresy fans desperately want breachers while 40k fans theoretically wont give a shit

Or about any infantry release for that matter

While dreads and vehicles its like

I mean pre legends you can easily end up in a situation where the entire stock of unit x is bought out cause of a competitive edge

[soft willow]

I mean try buying any Fiends of Slanneesh right now.

[jaunty dawn]

And now fostering a community for the brand youre trying to develop is hard cause theyre all mad at you for not stocking stuff

Idk

Gw doesnt really need a devils advocate but like

I guess I just find thinking about the diversity of incentives interesting

[soft willow]

Yeah, somewhere there's a logic where this makes some kind of sense.

Whether it's about production capacity and numbers or whatever else might affect it it feels weird on the customer end.

[jaunty dawn]

But its like from an outside perspective no one was saying “they should cancel fantasy and make a new prog rock setting from its ashes” but the inside data was there and some of it has since come out concretely

[empty siren]

What colour should I do the head

[jaunty dawn]

Gw hates transparency though really

Orange would be a nice contrast

[soft willow]

Or if you wanted to keep it more subdued an Ochre or Tan

But a warm pop would give it some kick.

[empty siren]

I was thinking about doing more cool colours

The Tau symbol I was about doing a light silver with a light blue contrast

The only oranges I have is troll slayer and army painter burning ore😭

[rocky shale]

Black

If you do orange you need to build up a lighter base color first

[empty siren]

What about fenrisian grey?

[rocky shale]

The orange won't cover black well at all

[empty siren]

That's what I don't like about orange

I have to build up white then build up the orange

Orange when done properly looks really good

[rocky shale]

You can do warm browns instead of white but yeah

Orrr pinks

[empty siren]

I do have a really nice pink

Or a purple

Like a lavender purple

Oh

Ultramarine blue

[sour sequoia]

Undercoat hot pink for orange and yellow

It’ll work even on black prime

[tepid stratus]

Doesn't help that warcry has been stagnant for a long while now. But yeah it's crazy, specific teams ended up being crazy good in AOS so sold a shitload of kits per player (I for one have two askurgans units and have seen people run 8 units of them before)

They're still good but it's hard to get these kits now because warcry is even less supported than underworlds right now

Not to mention old edition underworlds stuff all getting cut from AOS while new edition stuff gets added in creating a weird disparity of options for some armies

[sour sequoia]

This is one coat of pink over black primer and then direct to yellow

Orange will be easier because it’s not like, cadmium pigment

[rocky shale]

I keep some cadmium orange around for a nuclear option

Just don't airbrush it

[desert jay]

I think the issue though is that the genie is permanently out of the bottle because Space Marine players won’t ever stop buying Heresy infantry models for conversions

[soft willow]

Or folks doing admech conversions with Mechanicum models because they're all cooler, or Knights being Knights.

[quaint compass]

That the Contemptor dreadnought isn't a mainline 40k dreaddie is a travesty

It's proper chunky without being sleek

It might not waddle as much as a proper casket dread but it serves

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAo4Er-bAo8

[past sphinx]

i remember the double volkite DG dread and it wasnt a good time

but i do miss it

[still warren]

(if anyone has a source let me know!)

[charred bridge]

I was never really interested in primarchs but I learned gulliman had a mom? And gullimom is just a stone cold badass that put the ultramarine primarch in time out more times than he's saved the imperium. The guy had 2 parents and ended up basically the most well adjusted primarch or even person in 40k.

Also her scolding auguston or any other space matine is basically her scolding her hundreds strong grandsons

[tepid stratus]

The most well adjusted primarchs all had loving parental figures

[charred bridge]

If 40k had a moral, this would be it

[bright dove]

Vulkan had parents too.

[floral herald]

So did Horus

[tepid stratus]

Khan had parents. Lion had a father figure but he was also raised on a deathworld

[runic swallow]

She stared down Kurz iirc

[tired cairn]

Oh, interesting. The new SM drop pods don't include the doors for the "hull". That makes their footprint a lot more reasonable

[past sphinx]

the doors only exist in the mind

witch is the right choice but also still a paint in the neck to set up

[charred bridge]

She did, iirc she had a badass quote when auguston asked her how she could stare down a primarch, a god like being made in the emperors image. She said something along the lines of astartes armor gives them the truest protection of mankind's faith in them and the respect they demand. And she has obtained the respect of mankind so she is as strong as any of them.

Also she mentions how Robert used to cower under his blanket during intense storms and how all primarchs are simply children that grew into men, that's what they are and not gods.

When auguston called Robert a god, she snidrd him cause it's disrespectful to call him that, that to show true respect is to acknowledge his flaw as a man and know he has limits. To not shape him and burden him with ideas he cannot attain.

She really was ultramom

[jaunty dawn]

Psi-Judges

[south axle]

They kinda fuck

[floral herald]

Very cool

[jaunty dawn]

Freaky deaky

(Pos)

[west zealot]

Oh, that's awesome

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1392854240086720573/image0.jpg?ex=68710c18&is=686fba98&hm=777ceb4627cc284cde73c63be7cbf6a1e394e4bc49a48364cdbb2eb40d7bb34f&

[jaunty dawn]

Hes not forklift certified!!!

He should have a mechanicus shoulder pad

Thats a learnee forklifter at best

If not a full blown vigilante

[past sphinx]

psi judges and their wearing HELMETS

bah

heresy

[tired cairn]

Something about the paint scheme, armor appearance and helmet makes me think they are some sci-fi sports players

[pulsar cairn]

How much power does a space marine have compared to an Arbites?

[bright dove]

More.

[tired cairn]

Define power

[pulsar cairn]

Authority

[tired cairn]

They have less direct institutional power but probably more soft quasi religious power aiui

[bright dove]

Arbites are basically a federal level police force. If a Space Marine is in their jurisdiction, the Arbite's say suddenly doesn't matter.

Because that's now a warzone.

[pulsar cairn]

Right

[tired cairn]

I am going to complain about the new Tyranids raveners instructions: this sequence is literally impossible because of the nub on the tail. You need to put the body down first and then the debris

It didn't actually bite me, and I'm mostly annoyed because it makes it harder to paint the base and body separately, but still

[upper canopy]

However if a Space Marine flagrantly disregards the Lex or the Authority of an Arbite Marshal, it might cause an actual instiutional crisis

[tired cairn]

Are space marines under the jurisdiction of the Lex/Arbites?

[upper canopy]

If the Arbite says you are, yes

There's no hard laws among the upper eschelons of the Imperium, it's simply feudal power struggles with 10k millenia of precedent that goes either way, and essentially results in "What the person in charge at that moment says, goes"

[thin ibex]

the main thing is that space marines will absolutely let someone who does that find out when they fuck around

[main pagoda]

they are basically a law unto themselves

[upper canopy]

And likewise the Administratum is quick to remind Space Marines that they can also fuck around and find out

[thin ibex]

Iirc, at least in an official capacity, space marines and the worlds they directly administer, like where their fortress monastery is located, are exempt from the tithe on the basis of housing a space marine chapter, so the actual jurisdictional extent of the arbites and the lex is... scant

[upper canopy]

Yes, but if a Space Marine shows up on a planet and does not respect the local authorities, they have a high chance of fucking themselves over

[thin ibex]

And you get chapters like the carcharadons which exist on the edges of imperial space and who effectively raid imperial worlds for supplies, they're technically breaking the law, but no authority is actively trying to reach them

and chapters like the Space Wolves who would happily accept censure/flount imperial law they disagree with in full knowledge of potential consequence

[upper canopy]

the space wolves don't count since they should be dead

by all accounts

and the writing for why they aren't is Bad

[thin ibex]

big shrug, nontheless they've historically flounted imerial law in their own interest

so have the dark angels

[upper canopy]

Yes but at the same token

Badab War

[thin ibex]

i imagine many other chapters are more likely to skirt the law rather than actually outright throw it in the imperiums face

because they have a significant degree of autonomy

in turn, in most cases the arbites do not generally fuck with space marines; but depending on who's in charge could be compelled to

[main pagoda]

also worth noting how much leeway the first founding chapters have

[thin ibex]

most imperial institutions dont willfully fuck with space marines i find. Inquisition does, Custodes willfully will, the ecclesiarchy sometimes does, after a super long delay the administratum and munitorum likely do

though if the inquisition does it wrong, they also get punched in the teeth, due to the shaky way authority actually pans out

sort of like SM dont fall directly under the purview of the inquisition, but the inquisition can declare them traitors, and there are likely oaths or obligations that can be leveraged

[upper canopy]

Space Marines do fall under inquisitorial oversight

Since the only person that legally outranks an inquisitor is the emperor

[thin ibex]

tell that to guilliman

or the custodes

[tired cairn]

🤔 Is their promotion process totally independent of the emperor, or do they ceremonial get his approval for choosing new Inquisitors?

[upper canopy]

Laws dont mean anything to the upper crusts of the imperium

[tired cairn]

It's not like the Emperor is weighing in on these disputes either lol

[upper canopy]

It is a fascist hellscape of institutional rot and petty feuds

If you can kill an inqusitor you outrank them in all practical concerns

[thin ibex]

The Chapter Masters owe their allegiance to the Emperor. Ultimately, the Chapter is subject to the orders of the highest-ranking among the Adeptus Terra, although only in a general sense.

[upper canopy]

This is not how things work in practice at all however

Inqusitors can declare chapters traitors, as can the administratum

New chapters are founded by the administratum

And anyone that fucks around too hard gets slapped by the minotaurs for their impudence

Like the imperium by design is not meant to work

And it doesn't

[bright dove]

I would love to see Arbites try to tell Space Marines what to do.

Because in everything but really exceptional circumstances, if Space Marines are there, Rule of Law isn't the highest priority for the planet anymore.

[upper canopy]

I mean in Darktide we have a marshal telling an inqusitor to fuck off, its his planet to restore order to.

And an arbite precinct on an important imperial world is probably on par with a space marine chapter

[tired cairn]

Eh, it's a very weak "fuck off" since they are working together

[upper canopy]

Grendyl explicitly says to Rannick "you have expended the marshals patience"

[bright dove]

To borrow from a comment:

if you see space marines in a battle, it means you have become a rounding error in a casualty report

if you see grey knights in a battle, it means you never existed in the first place

if you see a custodian in a battle, it means you have become a martyr in a battle that will forever change the course of human history and everyone will know your sacrifice```

It's the FBI trying to tell the Marines what to do. If a space marine is there, the situation is bad.

And you're going to get a very pointed question of "Hey, who let it get this bad in the first place, Law Boy?"

[floral herald]

This is genuinely a really interesting and complicated question

[pulsar cairn]

should i word it in a different way?

[floral herald]

No

It’s just weird

[bright dove]

Yeah, this is great.

In theory, an Arbites could try

[floral herald]

Cause on the one hand the arbites actually weird immense institutional power

[bright dove]

But it feels like a bad idea.

[floral herald]

As the primary regulatory body of the Imperial state

They can tussle with the Inquisition and the Admech and so on

Hell they’re expected to

And space marines are weird

Cause they are under the lex but with immense privileges

Both legally and culturally

[bright dove]

Yeah, Inquisitors and Admech feel like they're going to fall into the Arbites wheelhouse in more "normal" circumstances.

I don't know how a chapter crosses the Arbites.

[tired cairn]

Grendyl seems to be tiring everyone's patience lol

[floral herald]

But space marines actually wield relatively little internal institutional power

They’re usually* separate from sector government and beholden to no one and get by with astartes-grade loyalty oaths and treaties

But a space marines doesn’t have like

[bright dove]

A Rogue Trader Writ

[floral herald]

The authority to issue an execution warrant for a sector government

[bright dove]

Or Inquisitorial Authority.

Most non-Ultramarines are also disinterested in the idea of governance tbh.

[floral herald]

Of course, authority comes from the barrel of a gun in 40K and 1000 ish posthuman killing machines along with about a 50% of a sector battlefleet worth of warships is a lot of authority

So it’s actually a really interesting and complicated question

[bright dove]

I think any problems that arise between Arbites and Astartes are actually going to come in from higher levels basically.

They have a problem with the Arbites because they pissed off the Administratum or Sufficient Inquisitorial Authority.

[floral herald]

Yeah in practice the way they interact will probably be mostly space marines getting “deputized” for law enforcement

But that’d probably be a request not an order

[bright dove]

Yeah, a rebellion of sufficient clout that there needs to be Space Marine Intervention.

Arbites could call in Space Marines.

But largely, I don't think their respective duties have an authority friction area.

[floral herald]

Yeah ultimately the biggest job for the arbites is making sure taxes are paid and space marines are tax exempt so they don’t have much reason to fight

[tired cairn]

Is all of the Ultramarines (and descendants) fiefdom tax exempt or only their recruiting worlds? (Or are these one and the same)

[bright dove]

Ultramar as a domain is basically All Ultramarine, and thus falls under the tax-exempt thing.

But that's a first founding chapter.

[tired cairn]

wild. I guess tbf they seem to be everywhere so it's not like they aren't contributing lol

[bright dove]

And basically everything Ultramar goes into supporting the Ultramarines.

You'd have to be Goge Vandire levels of stupid to not take that deal.

[upper canopy]

Just macragge is tax exempt

The rest just hold loyalty to macragge but are otherwise imperial worlds

Except the other space marine home worlds

[floral herald]

I think the Ultramar sub sector is all Aptus Non?

I’m not sure cause its changed a few times

It is now but this is a Guilliman special afaik

I don’t know if it was between the scouring and guilliman’s return

[deft crest]

You have to kinda hook it in there

And watch out

one of the claw pics is incorrect

it shows the claw going at a wrong spot because of the angle

[tired cairn]

Hmm, it didn't seem possible. But I think that was the intent yeah

[tired cairn]

Is there some trick for putting the Ravener Wrecker lower mouth part on? It goes between the tongue and the upper mouth right? It seems to not slot in easily for me at all

[jaunty dawn]

YUP

you gotta like

Squeeze it in. Like it physically wont slot in. Same with the bodies to the tail i found.

Fits well once its in but yeah

[humble plover]

I snipped off the backmost tongue stud and it was super easy to slot in after. Looks a little weird upon close inspection, but my snakes are still unpainted

I've also heard of folks cutting the mouth bit in half and glueing it back together in the correct spot, but that seems risky to me

[pulsar cairn]

Aside from the raptor guys

Do night lords reside in the eye of terror?

they claim to hate daemons and stuff

[brittle salmon]

Sure, but it's safer than being out in the Imperium, and they can resupply there

[past sphinx]

negative, we love demons and sorcerers and shit, such as in red tithe. Its just that the best books black library ever published have a main character whos a nightlord and thinks chaos is cringe

[pulsar cairn]

i see

is it the same with iron warriors?

[past sphinx]

iron warriors embrace chaos but pretend to refuse its gifts, their the greatest warpsmiths of the legions. They make deals and coerce demons into machines.

Honsou was a chimeric iron warrior with fist geneseed and he only rose out of that low postion because he channeled the power of the chaos with warp lightning

the key difference the IW have is that their corruption hasnt changed their mindset. they dont give a fuck if youve been fused inside your predator annilatior for 500 years in an abomination of flesh bone and steel you are going to be in formation!

[tired cairn]

For posterity: The trick I ended up stumbling across was to rotate it in by pushing upish on the tusks (instead of pushing directly back on the bar of the piece)

[past sphinx]

the takeaway is man people want renegade marines

they want to be bad guys but not like abbadon level tying people to train tracks

to believe that they are independant to the will of the gods, corpse or no

witch is why the marines malevolent need a full codex!

[paper bluff]

Iw: chaos is a tool and shall forge it to my will.
NW: I don't need chaos to tell me to skin people. I was going to do it anyways

[uneven ember]

like half of the Chaos Marines are completely convinced that they're the only person in the galaxy who's smart enough to make use of the Ruinous Powers for their own ends while everyone else they know is an insane slave to darkness

[charred bridge]

Tzeench says its true you're different

[uneven ember]

Big T like "now I know I could never manipulate you you're way too perceptive for that to ever work"

[sour sequoia]

Did not realize thats the core arbites function and now it makes sense why @vital barn loves them so much

Thank you a puzzle piece was assembled tonight

[floral herald]

hahaha

[vital barn]

I nearly kitbashed an entire arbites army for use in 9th before they came out with actual arbites models and I decided it would no longer be cool to make my own shoddier ones.

[slim prawn]

those are arbites with budget cuts

[floral herald]

Like the Darktide arbites with their broke-ass cyberdogs

Here's the real high budget ones

All metal with a vat-grown dog CNS inside for control

Glittering wonders of oppresion technology

They're just doing surgery on dogs here standards have fallen in M42

[brittle salmon]

there's also the new Hardcase Cyber-Mastiffs they're throwing around on Necromunda

[floral herald]

Necromunda is so rich

[charred bridge]

Tbf the deluxe edition gets you that dawg

But most of then are bargain bin cyber dogs

[floral herald]

Even the fancy one is a little worse looking

Which to be clear I like a lot I like how it displays the slow decay of imperial technology

It's like Primaris marines using heavy stubbers everywhere

[charred bridge]

Yea darktide's one isnt the nice ones

[gray basalt]

Good doggo

[thin ibex]

It still bothers me that the guard use more heavy bolters than multilaser or heavy stubbers, meanwhile space marines are using heavy stubbers everywhere

I do love that the krieg hw team can bring stubbers

[past sphinx]

every time i see an inquisitor model i get a little happy

man i want to run one down

multilasers are weirdly uncommon

its come to think of it that is really weird just how MANY ironhail stubbers are knocking around

[pastel rampart]

Multilasers were Fine™ back when you had to consider cost for weapons--a bunch of S6 shots at 36" on a base Chimera wasn't a bad choice, necessarily. Meant you could wound most things on a 2+ and could reasonably glance (or even pen) on weak side/rear armor.

AP6 meant you didn't punch through most armor but that was fine.

[finite compass]

Ahriman believes he is perfectly unaltered. Did you know that? Yet I have seen the void that screams where his face used to be.

[past sphinx]

ahrimans been like a shape constrained inside that armor since the heresy i think

a screaming void being a man only by its own self delusion

[misty violet]

Heavy Stubbers as a SM thing is probably my biggest remaining problem with the primaris releases

It just feels so wrong somehow

[finite compass]

I actually like it

Just because technological regression should be a running theme

And it's really something Primaris fly in the face of

[thin ibex]

Tbf they are intentionally flying in the face of it, having been a secret project that effectively skipped ten thousand years of regression

[paper bluff]

He would be the sort that would be arrogant enough to achieve CHIM

[finite compass]

This is exactly why I don't like them. 😛

[hardy harness]

Thinkin about a Wrath & Glory character

Is a sword + stave psyker possible at all?

Or are there not really any ways to eliminate the two-handed part of a force stave?

[paper bluff]

You want to have a wand and sword?

[hardy harness]

Aye, yeah, a Gandalf-type beat

Sword in the main hand, staff in the offhand

[runic swallow]

They also put demons in artillery shells as an exotic munition, which is both hilariously dismissive of the demon and also super metal 🤘

Also you just know that there’s like 350,000 demons all absolutely infuriated to be stuck in various ammo dumps for 10,000 odd years

[vital barn]

Every time I consider playing Iron Warriors I remember that I don't want to paint hazard stripes and also have PTSD flashbacks to HH1e Ironfire lists, but I do think they're badass

[runic swallow]

Which honestly would probably be an improvement over time as the thing stuck in it just gets more and more pissed off

[vital barn]

My second favourite traitor legion after Wobblies

[runic swallow]

IW is great

I kinda love the whole “get inside the robot or else you get the hose again” approach to using demons

[vital barn]

I'm really hoping WB's badass demon dreads are good this time around

Ashen Circle seem to have received The Juice so I'm happy there

[runic swallow]

Oh yeah, those are some incredible models

The Gal Vorbak too

Also now I’m remembering one of the named greater demon models for HH that was basically just a fucking blob with a big mouth and a boney stick arm, must have been the easiest thing ever to do a custom “counts as” model

[vital barn]

Gal Vorbak and Ashen Circle have always had the problem of being high stat, low gear elite models

[brittle salmon]

IW are def my favourite traitor legion, love the lads

[vital barn]

so they're expensive but they can't fight other elites well because they can't open tin cans with their AP3 claws and axes or tank same

Breaching and crits might be good to them this ed if they're not too overpriced

[runic swallow]

My favorite IW thing ever is probably just the Iron Cage aka “Why attacking several dozen square miles of nothing but prepared defenses with a plan of taking it on the chin is a bad idea”

It’s still hilarious to me any time a writer tries to make it some victory for the fists

[vital barn]

I am personally a big fan of Have Faith, Word Bearer

[brittle salmon]

I've had a mind to do a little fluff piece for each legion detailing a bit of culture that's evolved over the millenium/survived the Heresy, and for IW it'd just be Drills and Logistics. these fucking nerds still run the numbers for any major chaos operation to this day

[runic swallow]

“Ah yes, we got chewed to fine hamburger, took massive lopsided casualties, and our target got away along with most of his men in good order, but we took the field. Victory!”

[runic swallow]

Oh yeah, that too, an iron warrior is nothing without his insulting quips

[vital barn]

I always liked trying to write word bearers as, you know, not failsons

[runic swallow]

Also, I’m reminded of a short story where an Alpha Legionnaire causes a planetary revolt with nothing but a radio and a solar system objects map

[vital barn]

it was very easy to do this in HH1e and 2e because their legion rites sucked but their potential to buff allies was pretty decent, so the secret strength of Word Bearers is that you fight through literally a hundred cultists, smash their artillery, drive back their tanks and then you realise you've seen maybe three actual Astartes so far and then the Gal Vorbak hit you in the side

[runic swallow]

I can never remember the name of it, but I think it’s in one of the early HH anthologies

[vital barn]

my 3k WB army had twenty-one word bearers in it, counting dreads and vic crew

fifteen of those were in deep strike because Ashen Circle + GV

the rest of the army was a hundred cultists in two units of 50, made Fearless by attached Chaplains, earthshakers and a rogue psyker lord with a disposable sorcerous tome summoning shitty demon dogs, AKA "zero fucking money"

[runic swallow]

Tbh I also think that should probably be the case for an actually representative IW army as well, mostly just a shitload of dudes, some vehicle crews, and a small breakthrough force of Astartes

[vital barn]

every time the enemy advanced 40 tacs to blast my hordes and lost 3/4 of them I just imagined my two chaplains dispatching tacs to eat challenges with the biggest shit-eating grins

a Sons of Horus version of the same tactic is also responsible for one of my favourite short fics in the HH Black Books

let me see if I can find it

[runic swallow]

Just absolutely cackling loud enough to heard over the battlefield

[vital barn]

oh hey I found this image that a friend stuck to the front of my old Mechanicum tourney list because I was running Biologis

peak male physique requires at least fifteen mechadendrites

ah, here we are

requires a tiny bit of zoom

man I saved that in 2017

the previous book also had Calleb Decima, my favourite Magos, pulling some serious money moves

again, quality quite bad, sorry

the Black Books are up there or even slightly better than Imperial Armour in my ranking of best-ever-campaign-books

[runic swallow]

I love how since they were largely written by guys who were serious historical wargamers, they have a bit of a feel of something trying to be a history of a fictional world

[vital barn]

they're history textbooks as illumated manuscripts, it rules

also had a kind of fun art style, they built dioramas and then threw filters on them in a way I haven't seen in many other places

[brittle salmon]

extremely fucking tragic alan bligh passed so soon

his writing was phenomenal, he got it

[vital barn]

yeah, the drop in quality after his death was massive, he really was carrying the whole thing on his back

[brittle salmon]

[vital barn]

huh

I was checking his bibliography and I did not know he wrote novels for Arkham Horror

I wonder if he was as good at those as he was for setting books

[brittle salmon]

huh!

[runic swallow]

Yeah, I liked the ones they did in the red book I had, I really would like to get the black books just for the background stuff

[brittle salmon]

fascinating

[vital barn]

if I had the money I would get some, yeah

the Black Books beat the Red Books out significantly, IMO

reds are nice, but the first three Black Books are really my benchmark for "how hard is your tabletop setting going today"

[brittle salmon]

Alan also did some writing for a lot of the early FFG 40k stuff, too

Wonder what he was credited with

Setting/lore probably

[vital barn]

oh yeah, the black book primarchs are also very...actor-shaped

Guilliman is Daniel Craig, for instance

[runic swallow]

I do recall hearing some good stuff about Bligh’s CoC scenarios

[runic swallow]

Tbh that’s also just “Roman guy, but thicker jawed”

[brittle salmon]

Wow, they got Abnett in for DH 1e??

[vital barn]

to be fair it's not like Daniel Craig is a bad casting there

[brittle salmon]

GW was really pouring the dosh in on support staff here

[runic swallow]

Oh shit Bligh did Dead Lights, that’s a scenario I’ve heard a good bit about

[vital barn]

ah, here's a good example

[brittle salmon]

Caestus Assault Ram spotted

[vital barn]

they built actual dioramas with all these models and then went wild with the digital processing, which I really quite like

[runic swallow]

I loved the picture of the I think Sicaran Venator, where they have it edited to be absolutely blowing apart a land raider

Also all the cutaway art of the stuff like the Thallax were so cool

Really gets across that the mechanicum robots are just as horrifying as servitors, but with a sleeker shell

[vital barn]

the Mechanicum being absolutely hard bastards is something that I really like

[runic swallow]

The Mechanicum is just so much cooler than the Mechanicus imo

[vital barn]

there's some great flavour text about the fledgeling cold war between Mars, bolstered by all the new forge worlds, and the Space Marine Legions before the Heresy rendered it all moot

[brittle salmon]

Yes

[runic swallow]

Yeah, it was looking like it’d probably end up being a civil war between the Astartes and Mechanicum but oops, the emperor being worlds worst dad preempted that

[vital barn]

unfortunately most of the Mech books in the actual HH novel series are mid as fuck

Titandeath isn't bad, but that's about it

[brittle salmon]

Low key, I think the army aesthetic for the 40k Mechanicus, like the Skitarii and such, is just...mid

[vital barn]

and yeah, they look far worse now

[runic swallow]

Also, just from a materiel standpoint the Mechanicum almost most certainly would have come out on top of that one, since they can just turn off the materiel spigot to the rest of the I perium

[vital barn]

the Myrmidons and the Thallax are just so much cooler

[brittle salmon]

The 30k almost brutalist baroque stylings of the Taghmata look so much better

[vital barn]

they also have a cooler organisational structure, because they're literally Byzantine

[runic swallow]

Love the sleek faceplate look

[vital barn]

they have a bunch of incredible bullshit packaged into incredibly heterogenous forces, whereas the 40k mech are apparently all the same tin men

[brittle salmon]

don't get me wrong, i love a good tech priest as much as the next guy

but i think they flubbed it on the skitarii

[vital barn]

the original Rangers, Vanguard and Dunecrawler are quite nice

the more models they added the worse the look got

[jaunty dawn]

Theres an element of flanderisation

Like more stuff like the onager? No just more skitarii

[vital barn]

Skitarii also look better in the art that actually gets across that this is a six foot guy covered in metal rather than a tiny little tin man

[runic swallow]

I miss the weirder OG Skitari

[jaunty dawn]

But I think theyre actually very cool haha

[brittle salmon]

Same

[vital barn]

and their stats have gotten steadily worse over the editions as they got steadily flanderised into shitty mech-guard rather than shock troops with aimbot

[jaunty dawn]

Fwiw in 30k mars skitarii are basically the same as 40k and in 40k all the 30k stuff still exists lore wise

[runic swallow]

Literally removed eyelids because blinking produces data loss

[jaunty dawn]

They are two seperate armies that coexist in both periods

[vital barn]

yeah, but in 30k the Skitarii are the army of Mars, they are the giant personal standardised army of the fabricator general which works on a different principle to the Taghmata

rather than "this is the main force of every forgeworld ever"

[runic swallow]

Yeah but do we really see the sick ass stuff like the Thallax these days?

[jaunty dawn]

Yes

Which is why I specified haha

[vital barn]

and "here's literally two billion pretty decent standardised tin-men with integrated C3I" is pretty good for beating up your average Taghma even if the myrmidons are going to be more killy

ah, here's my favourite skittles art

[jaunty dawn]

And also no because the way the setting is depicted is driven by what plastic men are allowed to exist

[vital barn]

these guys look a lot less spindly

[jaunty dawn]

See the whole female custodes shit

[vital barn]

I do love that they have plasma medium machine guns on the squad level

[jaunty dawn]

Like I get the lore is small comfort but it is the case

[vital barn]

would be a great detail if they weren't banned from taking more than 1 per squad by the new wysiwig rules

[jaunty dawn]

Yuup

[vital barn]

(I am a little salty over all my squads being made retroactively illegal after I scrounged bitz to put them together)

[runic swallow]

I kinda love how people call Skitari skittles

[vital barn]

I do like the chibi skitarii art that one artist does

even though I do kind of miss the old 7e Skitarii who had BS5 or higher for half the game plus triple-shot plasma and weren't afraid to use it

now they're essentially shittier stormtroopers

[brittle salmon]

Let's just say there's a reason Mechanicus has been sitting in an incredibly middling spot this entire edition

[vital barn]

Primary Detachment: Loyalist Mechanicum, Ordo Reductor

Calleb Decima (185)
Warlord, Logic of Victory
Lachrimallus Retinue, 4 multimeltas, 8 servo-automata, magos auxilia w/ augury scanner (175)
Triaros Armoured Conveyor (135)

Magos Dominus, axe/laspistol, machinator array, MC meltagun, augury scanner, meltabombs (130)
Magos Dominus, axe/laspistol, machinator array, MC meltagun, augury scanner, meltabombs (130)

3x Thallax, multimelta, meltabombs (165)
3x Thallax, multimelta, meltabombs (165)
3x Thallax, multimelta, meltabombs (165)

6x Myrmidon Secutors, 5 dual plasma, 1 dual grav (320)
Triaros Armoured Conveyor (135)
6x Myrmidon Secutors, 5 dual plasma, 1 dual grav (320)
Triaros Armoured Conveyor (135)

Vultarax (135)
Vultarax (135)

5x Myrmidon Destructors, darkfire cannon (340)
Krios (125)
Krios (125)

Total 3000/3000

This was my old list, I'm interested to see where something like this ends up this edition

I later updated it to add Secutarii Axiarchs, who could give Preferred Enemy to the Secutors

[runic swallow]

GW wants you to buy more expensive plastic martians?

[brittle salmon]

lmao

And their rules are mid

[runic swallow]

Also now I’m imagining someone proxying using Mars Attacks! martians

[main pagoda]

tbh compared to what they were in 1e mechanicus now are in a far nicer spot, no longer do you need to feel bad running most of the automatas

[vital barn]

7e mechanicus had a lot more game than they do now in 10th, honestly

power level aside, they've just had all the juice filed off

[brittle salmon]

im talking about 40k friend

[main pagoda]

oh lmao

[vital barn]

hoping HH3e mechanicum will not fold to dread spam, because everything has been tilted to not fold to dread spam

[main pagoda]

i saw the 30k list posted

[brittle salmon]

that's very fair

[main pagoda]

and the 30k speak and assumed mb

[brittle salmon]

nw!

[main pagoda]

but ill say as someone who played only traitor mech for 1e they were truly wretched in how silly they could be, I think 2e has handled them alot better

[brittle salmon]

with multidamage getting way more common i think dreads have already been reasonably curtailed as a threat

[vital barn]

I played Ordo Reductor in 1e

serious phosphex crimes possible back then

if not quite to the autowin level of Ironfire

[main pagoda]

I played quite abit of tournament play with the scoria lists and good lord that shit was mhm busted

[vital barn]

oh yeah, 1e scoria

1v1 anyone except like Horus, Russ and Magnus with invis or just sweep any actual unit

[main pagoda]

you could go toe to toe with ironfire and remind them that they aint the only ones with arty

[vital barn]

I didn't do too many tournaments but I did win one pretty decisively with Hoplites crammed into Arvus Lighters

makeshift drop pods go

absolutely annihilated levi dreads and spartans, which were basically everywhere

[brittle salmon]

This story remains so fucking funny

Love it

[main pagoda]

scoria with his hounds( read max size vorax unit) would sweep basically anything

and then you were running 120 odd fearless tech thralls

[vital barn]

yeah the thralls got pretty silly

not as silly as the old Fearless rending 4A levy blobs, but pretty silly

[main pagoda]

did they remove the vultrax the drone thing

[vital barn]

damned if I know, I think it's less annoying to use in 2e but I haven't played a ton

[runic swallow]

It’s hilarious what their cost-per-point was lol

[main pagoda]

cults and milita were clearly an afterthought because that shit was just busted

it was like 2-3 pts for a fearless S3 BS 3 guy

[vital barn]

it was one of those lists that balanced the costs by throwing darts at a board because 70% of it was totally useless and the remaining 30% was cracked

[main pagoda]

krios were just silly as well

[vital barn]

2ppm for conscripts with WS3, 4 attacks on the charge, hatred, fearless, rending

any primarchstar that touched that just evaporated

[main pagoda]

will forever hate on demons from 1e though

[vital barn]

those were just 7e demons

[main pagoda]

that dumb khorne mission

[vital barn]

which honestly explains a lot

[brittle salmon]

oh have yall not seen 2e demons

[main pagoda]

i had non compliants army wise it was just that mission

[brittle salmon]

they're also on crack

[vital barn]

honestly I didn't get a ton done with my 1e krioae, but the Krios *Venators * were on some shit

[runic swallow]

Also does anyone recall what the pile-of-goo model I mentioned earlier was? I know it was one of those ruinstorm HH demons

[vital barn]

rhino removal service

[main pagoda]

1vp for every unit killed in melee or overwatch on either side

dumbest shit

[brittle salmon]

[vital barn]

2e gave Reductor priests Reverse Battlesmith and it was really funny to stare storm eagles out of the sky

because you could just rip their engine pods off as long as you could get within 12" and that's either Crew Stunned or Crash and Burn

[main pagoda]

i remember my first game against this was as WE, saw the mission roll and just conceded i aint doing that

[main pagoda]

cor bax utterblight

[vital barn]

he was basically just a Great Unclean One

[runic swallow]

Just making a finger gun, pointing it at a thunderhawk, and going pow and watching its engines explode by uploading the Dread Scrapcode of Stuxnet

[vital barn]

(well, he is a GUO, but his rules weren't much different from the stock one either)

[main pagoda]

to be pedantic hes a demon prince

[runic swallow]

Hang on, is he the first guy with a Silly Extra Nurgling?

[main pagoda]

3

he got 3 of them bitches

unfortunately his model has not aged well

[vital barn]

I think I still have a resin macrocarid in-box somewhere from years back

[runic swallow]

Tbh it was never what I’d call “good”

[vital barn]

I should build that

[runic swallow]

My man is just a pile of goo

[vital barn]

or maybe sell it, since that hasn't been in production for ages

but I imagine recasts and prints aren't exactly less common than they were six years back

[main pagoda]

for being a 2015 model hes not too bad

even samus doesnt look great nowadays

[runic swallow]

Oh I just mean that he’s just kinda model they made a mouth, scythe arm, and then rolled in a bunch of crumbs

[main pagoda]

FW were quite far behind mainline GW in terms of modelling for a long time

[runic swallow]

I think the corrupted dreads and Gal Vorbak are still standouts

[main pagoda]

oh yeah

[vital barn]

they were carried by some really good designs

[main pagoda]

but there were alot of misses

[runic swallow]

And what? No, absolutely not

[vital barn]

the mechanicum mostly look sick as hell, as do the Solar Auxilia

they are however cursed with being in old resin

[main pagoda]

resin held them back so much

[vital barn]

plastic has much better detail these days

but back then the resin was decisively nicer

[main pagoda]

like FW had amazing modellers but resin is a ball and chain

compare new "FW" stuff to older sculpts and its really night and day

[runic swallow]

Yeah but Forge World was still much more interesting models than regular GW

If you’re comparing it contemporaneously

[main pagoda]

but the actual quality and overall look was behind

[runic swallow]

Quality maybe, look I’d say no

[vital barn]

looks they absolutely dominated on

quality was patchy, definitely

they had famously good customer service, so if you got a botch they'd invariably replace it, but it wasn't too rare to get a shoddy one

[main pagoda]

100% i remember having to send back like £500 worth of automata and got replacements in like a week

[vital barn]

it was often cheaper to just get knockoffs and then get Second Knockoff if the first one was dodgy, but if you bought the good ones you would absolutely get nice ones even if it took three tries

I remember a friend has a real saga with the Fire Raptor

although the Fire Raptor was prone to that anyway, just a bit of a dodgy conversion kit

[main pagoda]

i still think that as soon as they moved away to plastic the quality and modelling improved ten fold

[vital barn]

these days they get best of both, the plastic can hold enough of the old crisp resin detail

but back then I can see the benefits of resin

[runic swallow]

The modeling was always there

They were doing significantly more interesting stuff than regular GW

[main pagoda]

when they were doing single kits yeah but when they were solely responsible for HH they produced quite a few stinkers

especially when it came down to the units released near the beginning of 30k they really show their age now

[vital barn]

I can't remember too many genuinely bad models honestly, although they had a way better house painting style so they made even forgettable conversion kits look much nicer

[runic swallow]

Yeah I really don’t remember any absolute stinkers

[pine matrix]

Oh my god he crawled into the cannon, that whips

[main pagoda]

for me some of the bad models are some of the OG preators, golden and ebon kheshig most of the AL stuff, reavers, samus and thingy.

oh and rampagers

[runic swallow]

Nah, he ripped into the hatch

[pine matrix]

Ah, well sick either way

[runic swallow]

Oh absolutely

[pine matrix]

Tech Priests being genuinely integrated into the Legions somewhat is a very cool feature, them inducting certain bots as full battle brothers

[runic swallow]

Also, Misc, forgot to say but I love how the description on the first excerpt you posted how it shows that they definitely don’t have the And They Shall Know No Fear rule in 30m

What with the RG guy having nightmares about it

Also it’s just such a good bit of prose

[main pagoda]

Do think FW doesnt get enough credit for the writing behind 1e

black books like misc said were amazing

if you want to talk about FW modelling that has held up basically across the board look no further than the contemptor dread chassis stuff

[pine matrix]

Yeah, iirc Legionnares don't experience fear exactly but they can get fucked up by their experiences? Or maybe I'm forgetting if a certain amount of horror can overcome that indoctrination

[main pagoda]

They can feel fear but it kind of breaks them mentally and takes alot, you can find quite alot of it in the HH books

idk if fear is the right word for it

[pine matrix]

It's something, Loken definitely freaks out when encountering Samus for the first time

[runic swallow]

Demons are a big trigger for it

[pine matrix]

Is being horrified the same as being afraid?

[main pagoda]

cause they aren't really scared like normal humans its more a "oh shit oh fuck maybe im not the biggest baddest mfer"

[vital barn]

Decima in 1e was a fun unique character, he was a cheap, low-stat archmagos with archmagos support gear and a Macrocarid dedicated transport, which other magi didn't get. He couldn't duel, but he had a meltagun, a power axe and Eternal Warrior, so he could handle tacs or a centurion

really solid value

he also had a 1/battle scream attack that fired 2d6 haywire shots, for when you wanted a dread to fuck off right now

[main pagoda]

nah horrified doesnt implied you are scared of something, like first time encounter demons alot of them were horrified but not really scared

then you had the BA falling enmass to the red thirst for the first time and theres some of them who felt fear for what could happen

[pine matrix]

It's the shattering of what they think they should be and how the world is, than it is fear that they're going to get hurt or killed

[main pagoda]

yeah

exactly that

[pine matrix]

Like in the Perturabo novel where some marines refuse to decimate Olympia, they're disillusioned and disgusted by the order, this is not what they believe they are for, while the ones who do it subsumed themselves to Pert's will

[vital barn]

not sure if we'll get Decima or Inar Satarael rules this time around but I hope we do, they were both really neat

[main pagoda]

I think the two best books to really see "fear" in them is fear to tread and scars, one as i talked about is fear of the legion basically consuming itself and the 2nd is the fear of essentially betraying your primarch and legion for a false prophet

oh and flight of the Einstein

[runic swallow]

Eisenstein, the filmmaker, not the scientist

[pine matrix]

That's kind of what I love the most about HH, it's the disintegration of the Imperium's fucked up empire but also the disintegration of their fucked up view point. The Legions are not the invincible, unstoppable, incorruptible force they are, their Primarchs are not the ubermensch that they were designed to be

The stuff I like the best is the PoV characters, human and legionnare, grappling with what they will have to become to win the war, and what they were all along

[main pagoda]

in terms of primarchs that idea that they were flawless fell apart long before istavaan

[pine matrix]

oh for sure

Most were broken on pick up

[main pagoda]

Most intresting POV for that is custodes

In the final HH/SOT novel the new leader of the custodes very heavily considers just merking gulliman and has a monologue internally about the fact they are failed tools

[pine matrix]

Real tbh

In Master of Mankind, when Ra says to a World Eater they should have killed Angron when they found him, I was pissed because I love Angron but he was also totally correct

[main pagoda]

he basically is just like "Shit i might just crash out rn" but im just a chill guy

[pine matrix]

Though more for Angron's sake than the Imperium

[pine matrix]

Understandable, best tool in the toolbox would be pissed that the rest have fucked up the whole project

[main pagoda]

Angron was basically destined to either go renegade or traitor from the moment Big E left his slave army to die

but with like 90% of the legions that fell could have been prevented by just telling the primarchs stuff about the imperial webway project or really anything about the warp

The only truly doomed legion imho was WB because you had erebus and kor pheron basically manipulating lorgar from the get go and monarchia was really the straw that broke the camels back rather than what started it

[west zealot]

Man, Ork snipers are such apr oblem.

Poor Celestial Lions

[bright dove]

I will maintain that Perty would have never been happy and would have crashed out eventually, even if he was treated better.

Because man, Perty is just that petty.

[quaint compass]

Petty Rambo

[main pagoda]

I feel you can extend the same thing to morty, I feel the khan has the best take on it in that there should never have been a warmaster as all it did was deepen the divides between them

[paper bluff]

People disagree with me but I think it would be great if lorgar frees himself from those 2 and goes on a loyalist redemption story

And he wants to be forgiven by the emperor

[upper canopy]

See I don't think there's a loyalist redemption story I'd buy

because it's just going from One Kind of Evil to Another Kind of Evil

and I just can't get behind it

[tired cairn]

🤔 what if it had the trappings of a redemption arc (because he is redeemed in the eyes of the imperium), but was clearly not actually redeeming (for the reasons you note)

[main pagoda]

Some lines you can't uncross

[vital barn]

Also kind of ruins the one cool moment Lorgar gets, which is finally becoming a Good Psyker and throwing a titan around in Betrayer

[upper canopy]

The only redemption I want Lorgar to get is for him to kick the shit out of Corvus Corax

[vital barn]

Lorgar is unfortunately not particularly well written and thus lacks both depth and hype moments, aura, etc.

[upper canopy]

so people stop making the 1 joke

[vital barn]

He was really fun in HH1e though

[main pagoda]

Rolled and smoked unfortunately

[vital barn]

Love my cheapo primarch

[main pagoda]

You can't really redeem any of the traitor primarchs at this point

[vital barn]

450pts for demon Lorgar and he could just levitate his squad around on a rock while making them invisible and throwing Vindicator pie plates, no spartan required

Less cool in 2e, certainly

[floral herald]

The only option which makes sense is for Lorgar to study chaos for 10,000 years and then find Jesus

Forget the emperor

[upper canopy]

LMAO

LAST CHURCH 2

HE WINS THIS TIME

[main pagoda]

I do think it would be neat if they played with the WS renegade plot abit more

[pulsar cairn]

They cuter tho

[upper canopy]

The only thing I really want from 40k's metaplot is like

the Imperium being framed as antagonists to some kind of non-evil human domain

Like a sector rebels with the Imperium collapsing and they are just Protagonists for doing so

[jaunty dawn]

lorgar is chillin honestly

[main pagoda]

Is this not just the tau books lol

Minus the human

[jaunty dawn]

no like a faction that isn't a colonialist empire

[main pagoda]

squats?

[upper canopy]

a faction that isn't a colonialist empire

[tired cairn]

Not a main 40k metaplot thing, but this happens in the epilogue of Rogue Trader if you go the Iconoclast route

[thin ibex]

Big ask in a grim dark setting, but i could see it. Especially if they're protags who are destined to lose or something, but still very clearly protags

[tired cairn]

I don't think the non-evil people need to be protagonists

[upper canopy]

Listen if the setting can deal with Gullieman "Ideal Fascist Man" coming back as a big important hero we can get "Guys that are decent people"

[main pagoda]

gotta ask what would make a faction in 40k decent people

[quaint compass]

Severan Dominate flourishes in the Imperium Maledictum, becomes grand pluralistic republic
Severan is still the same asshole he always was, but has to go Venitari to stay alive

[main pagoda]

cause I feel you try that and you meet the fate of basically everyone in the GC which is just getting mollywhopped

[tired cairn]

You could have basic functioning democratic planet that then gets crushed by the Imperium for dumb reasons

[upper canopy]

I'm cool with "No slavery" as a baseline

[upper canopy]

it doesn't evven have to be democratic

[main pagoda]

CWE?