Is it still -6, 12 damage?
#Warhammer and Such
tired cairn
rocky shale
Oh yeah its still potentially brutal into things with no invuln
jaunty dawn
By most things devilfish is like 13w etc
rocky shale
But soooo much shit has invulns
jaunty dawn
It should really just have 3 attacks prolly but uh
Gw looooove random attacks
While treating them as if you always roll well
rocky shale
Random shot number on a 12 damage weapon is certainly a choice
jaunty dawn
Took them like 6 years to give the doomsday cannon d6+1
rocky shale
funny enough the harpoon knight tyrant is still probably better than the plasma/melta variant
despite the change
pastel rampart
pulsar cairn
are all of the Lion's new risen horus heresy veterans?
paper bluff
As with all things dark angels.... maybe!
past sphinx
I do find it a little silly
A fallen would have spent a long fucking time in the warp and they aint a certain grey knights chapter master
floral herald
The more aiui is that it hasn’t been that long for most of them they’re just staggered in time for when the warp spits them out
But it usually hasn’t been subjectively long for them
past sphinx
That struck me as odd though because there are other warbands in the exact same situation who are way more corrupt
We got to get out the big book of metaphysics and figure out if the warp affects time or merely your perception of time
floral herald
We tried but Lorgar said it wasn’t done yet
unreal cosmos
Didn't Caliban have like, a Time Monster in it?
floral herald
I think it did at some point and it’s only gotten weirder with the wormwood lore
Of all the places for a catastrophic time displacement warp accident it’s gotta be like top 5
uneven ember
reef pagoda
it seems wise to spam morbheg knights for FEC they are very good
past sphinx
thin ibex
Of they look cool
bright dove
it seems wise to spam morbheg knights for FEC they are very good
The good: Very Killy, Mobile
The Bad: Small Squad Size
empty siren
I should build Nighthaunt
They look insanely easy to paint
They also just look silly and fun. God I LOOOVE Nagash
sour sequoia
it seems wise to spam morbheg knights for FEC they are very good
Pre-nerf they were essentially the most efficient unit in the game
They’re still just so damn good. They’re not your sit-on-point-anvil units but they’re very mobile and they fight up well.
tired cairn
This must exists in the 40k universe but with whatever the high gothic equivalent of "fuck it we ball" is
uneven ember
This must exists in the 40k universe but with whatever the high gothic equivalen...
fornicatus, ludus
tired cairn
Alternatively I was imagining something very flowering like "disregard all distractions and assault the enemy" but you know, better written
uneven ember
yeah, I'm sure
but I don't have a Bit related to that one
desert jay
*fornicatus, ludus*
I was about to go "don't forget to put the verb in the imperative" but then remembered how dogshit 40K is at Latin
uneven ember
I was about to go "don't forget to put the verb in the imperative" but then reme...
It is key, yes
but also, the key to the High Gothic jokes are that, unless you want it to be a stealth gag that only a fraction of your audience gets, "Latin-sounding gibberish that can be decoded by English-speakers" is the desired effect
which is trickier than it seems!
(like when I describe the engagement area in Aeronautica Imperialis as the Regio Periculosum)
paper bluff
i kinda adore this absolute mess of grebbles
You say that till you build and paint it
sour sequoia
[laughs in GSC painting]
tired cairn
Well, at least you can get really far just drybrushing that thing
paper bluff
tired cairn
(Would I be smart enough to do this? Well I am painting the little vent-things on my Tyranid's limbs so probably not lmao)
runic swallow
I’m always vaugly confused by the mention of spore vents and such on tyranids and I’m never fully sure what that does, is it part of the Tyranoforming process?
Because tyranids themselves aren’t formed from spores, they aren’t fungus monsters as far as I’m aware
So I can only guess it’s part of the environment manipulation thing???
tired cairn
Maybe they are heat vents
But part of the tyrannoforming process would also make sense. Or even just a general "make the air around you suck a bit" (but at a level below gameplay resolution)
runic swallow
No no, I know there are specific “spore vents” on the big stuff like Carnifexs
tired cairn
It is kind of weird that tyranids are supposed to be hyperspecialized predators but also they reuse bioforms made for consuming the planet for warforms
runic swallow
Look, efficiency
charred bridge
Probably looks cool is the real answer but it could be an adaptation to poison the air to everything but tyrannids or heat vents
runic swallow
Evolution hates doing more than it’s gotta
tired cairn
Tyranids: We always specialize for combat and maybe one other thing
charred bridge
Well Norn queens choose mutations
It's an intelligent design so they definitely aren't going for bare minimum
floral herald
I’m always vaugly confused by the mention of spore vents and such on tyranids an...
They’re a triple use thing:
- they’re exhaust heat vents for the bigger tyranids overloaded metabolisms
- they’re a vector for spreading tyrannoforming microorganisms
- they’re the tyranid equivalent of smoke launchers for concealment
tired cairn
That last one is a sick joke given how no tyranids had the smoke keyword until the last balance pass
floral herald
That last one is a sick joke given how no tyranids had the smoke keyword until t...
Like 6 editions ago they did :p
tired cairn
haha
desert jay
That long ago? Dang
uneven ember
Tyrranids do spore the planets, which causes growths of Tyrranic lifeforms over the surface
culminating in the digestive pools and capilary towers that feed the void organisms
charred bridge
Norn queen forgot how to smoke
floral herald
There are also specialized consumption forms but they don’t appear a ton because it’s not postconflictcleanuphammer
tired cairn
lmao, that is a fair critique
desert jay
Though I do remember in 9e Carnifexes had a non-generic smoke-y concealment rule for them
tired cairn
It's just mildly weird to me when they are like "pyrovores are used to help digest stuff on the planet. Also it is used in combat"
floral herald
lmao, that is a fair critique
It’s also like the trees and tyranid bugs (like little insects) and such
runic swallow
Tyrranids do spore the planets, which causes growths of Tyrranic lifeforms over ...
So is it more the “structures” than the creatures the spores make? Though I know with Nids that’s kinda a blurry line
tired cairn
There is a lack of tyranid tree rules. Though I guess there were strats to represent that in 9th?
floral herald
The Tyranids install their own crazy overactive ecosystem to make soil or rock nutrients more bioavailable iirc
tired cairn
Yeah
floral herald
Then they let loose rivers of tyranids to consume and move the ecosystem into the sludge pools for the fleet to slurp
charred bridge
Pyrovores are useful against like small animals and in true tyranid fashion are super aggro cause if they die the biomass can still be used so there's no consequences to most every form being super aggro
tired cairn
Spore cysts made spore mines when Carnifexen had them
uneven ember
also, tyranids don't (usually?) grow from spores, but they do transport to the planet's surface in "spores" which apparently includes a biological entry vehicle capable of transporting a squad of human-scale bioforms
reative size, I guess
charred bridge
They're like the necron scarab, big threat in numbers to infantry
tired cairn
It isn't really clear to me what tyranid spores are
floral herald
A lot of the tyranid warforms don’t even have digestive systems they just fight and kill until they run out of stored energy and then die
charred bridge
It isn't really clear to me what tyranid spores are
Whatever they want it to be
My guess is it like does something to airborne ljfeforms like bacteria
uneven ember
also tyranid void...craft? voidforms? are constantly emitting clouds of spores
runic swallow
Tyranocyst? Whatever that big unit they made that was the alternative of the drop pod unit (which they brought back after being gone for years after they never made a model for it but sued third party people for making them)
tired cairn
It might be one of those "it's kind of like spores even if it technically isn't"
charred bridge
Cause when tyrannids are done there's no life whatsoever not even bacteria, probably spores like handle biomass in air
uneven ember
which is what tyranids in BFG have instead of shields and turrets
runic swallow
And soil presumably
tired cairn
Hmm, are the tyrannoforming stuff the same DNA line as the tyranid creatures, or is it more like, a mutalistic collection of sperate species they kept from wherever they picked them up/engineered them?
tired cairn
*also* tyranid void...craft? voidforms? are constantly emitting clouds of spores
I think it was specifically clouds of spore mines right? Which might be nitpicky
charred bridge
They're a hive mind, each tyranid is like an extension of the hive like fingers, synapse creatures act like neurons and facilitate quicker flow of psychic information like how nerve clusters on our hands make our fingers more sensitive then say on our elbow
floral herald
I think it was specifically clouds of spore mines right? Which might be nitpicky
It’s been a while since I read BFG but iirc it’s just unnamed spores
charred bridge
Exceptions are if tyrannids get cut off somehow like they get left behind
uneven ember
Tyranocyst? Whatever that big unit they made that was the alternative of the dro...
the tyranocite is the one that has the guns, the mycetic spore was the old one that doesn't move and just has melee attacks
floral herald
It’s not really clear to me what the deal with tyranid spores is
My best guess is some kind of symbiont with the “base tyranid” like fleshborers or something
runic swallow
the tyranocite is the one that has the guns, the mycetic spore was the old one t...
I swear one of them spat out a bunch of spore mines
tired cairn
Oh, hmm. Tyranids must really mess up the definition of a species. Are the weapons generally not "tyranids" or are you referring to the worms in the fleshboreres specfically?
tired cairn
I swear one of them spat out a bunch of spore mines
The static defense one does
Sporeocyst?
runic swallow
And yeah tyranids are a place where the lore does a very huge shrug
floral herald
There’s a rough 6 limbs with a tail and such “base tyranid” a lot of them are related through
tired cairn
This guy:
runic swallow
“I dunno it sounded cool and it made a neat model/part of this story, you figure it out”
floral herald
Xenology says they’re all variants on the Ripper
floral herald
But there’s also a ton of tyranid bio forms which don’t look like that
floral herald
Xenology is also Xenology
Yeah it’s not clear if the Xenology guy is right or coping or what
runic swallow
Explicitly written by a guy who is not fully to be trusted
floral herald
But there are body plan similarities for a lot of tyranids
tired cairn
I think the designers generally stick to "six 'main' limbs" even if ther are very vestigial in the case of Zoanthroapes
uneven ember
It’s been a while since I read BFG but iirc it’s just unnamed spores
yeah, unnamed "spores"
which, in addition to being shields and turrets, are also troop capacity. Tyranids don't have specialized transports, but any ship in the fleet getting into orbit can do troop spores onto the planet (except the krakens, their dedicated space organisms, which don't have spores)
tired cairn
Most of the guns don't follow this rule. But the biovore cannon does (now)
uneven ember
there were also spore mines they could use as defenses, which was a separate thing
tired cairn
Calling the troop transports spore is wild because they are very large lol
floral herald
Yeah a lot of the weapons don’t and much more of the ammo super doesn’t
uneven ember
Calling the troop transports spore is wild because they are very large lol
well I mean
relative to the creatures that are shedding them they're pretty tiny!
tired cairn
It does make me think it's more of analogy than literal spores
uneven ember
(BFG tyranids are weird)
(you have a limited number of actual choices to move your ships every turn and otherwise your fleet acts based on a flow chart)
tired cairn
Which I guess covers everything from "big thing that holds creatures to populate a planet" and "awful bioform filling the air that makes the guardsmen cough up blood"
They changed them a lot in the video game
They are pretty funny though because they start stealth so you try to sneak up on people and then use your dash to pounce on them
runic swallow
It does make me think it's more of analogy than literal spores
Yeah, definitely
floral herald
The tyranids in BFG were famously not that fun to play
tired cairn
Turns out people like making decisions?
floral herald
Since for a bunch of reasons like half your fleet was on autopilot except your “wrecking ball” of battleships
They were also just like
A really fucking weird fleet
Slow horde space marines basically
uneven ember
also ordinance
so much ordinance
runic swallow
They changed them a lot in the video game
I will say the mycetic spores in SM2 were pretty good at getting across how fucked a defense against them is, since a full horde of gaunts or a carnifex (and likely a lot of spores carrying them at once) can suddenly smash down into your rear line while you’re trying to face the river of them already on the planet
tired cairn
They are weird in the video game because they want to get into melee range but aren't particularly good at ramming but you still want to do it. Just uh, don't do it to the front of an imperial warship lol
runic swallow
I’d expect the hive mind is smart enough to calculate slinging them around to areas of the planet they don’t have control of the space above
runic swallow
They are weird in the video game because they want to get into melee range but a...
Oof ouchie my noggin
uneven ember
Imperial warships are really good at ramming.
I mean, they have power rams as an upgrade option on the tabletop.
power rams
tired cairn
I will say the mycetic spores in SM2 were pretty good at getting across how fuck...
I think those were tyrannocytes (which did not historically move around after landing but started to in the TT for some reason)? But yeah. Space Marines are probably like "no fair, that's our thing!"
runic swallow
Yeah lmao
tired cairn
They have hardened bows in the video game. It's great
floral herald
BFG faction identities are also weird
runic swallow
Also wait they can move now? I remember they just sat there
floral herald
It’s like just not what you’d expect
runic swallow
I’ve been out of the game a while 
tired cairn
They slowly float around for some reason lol
runic swallow
Don’t like that
tired cairn
It’s like just not what you’d expect
Because they are often not related to the land version of the armies?
tired cairn
Don’t like that
Don't worry. They really suck so you'll never actually see one 🙃
runic swallow
Also I just realized that tyranids had more common access to drop pods than space marines did for a bit there, didn’t they?
Ah
tired cairn
Oh, maybe only because of the Primaris situation?
runic swallow
I more meant that it just seems wrong that they move
floral herald
Because they are often not related to the land version of the armies?
And there’s some lack of factional overlap
runic swallow
Oh, maybe only because of the Primaris situation?
And yeah that’s what I was referring to
The big boys were too claustrophobic
tired cairn
Otherwise I think drop pods have generally been more favored over tyranocytes
(They both aren't popular in 10th I don't think)
runic swallow
That’s a shame
tired cairn
They are kind of way too big and expensive lol
runic swallow
Yeah, I could see that
uneven ember
The big boys were too claustrophobic
yeah, really didn't like that in general
whether or not it's, like, optimal, drop pods are the Astartes' thing going back to the inspirations the GW guys were ripping off drawing from
tired cairn
The fact that they made the new model with the doors down is wild from a practicality standpoint lol
floral herald
It’s roughly
- Chaos: we’re the well rounded generalists here!
- Imperial Navy: we’re the less well rounded generalists and also we have gimmick guns
- space marines: we’re expensive tough close range demons
- eldar: we’re playing a different game than you and we’re winning btw
- necrons: we’re playing a different game than you and we’re winninger btw
- orks: we have a lot of forward facing firepower and also we suck
- tau: we have a lot of forward facing firepower and we’re good
- dark eldar: we have one fleet build and it sucks so much to play into omfg
- Tyranids: we have many builds and they’re all weird. We don’t play like anyone really!
- the rest: who cares lol too minor
main pagoda
It’s roughly
- Chaos: we’re the well rounded generalists here!
- Imperial Navy:...
you can always see when someone has been traumatised by mimic engines
uneven ember
Eldar, I want to note, get rules based on which edge of the table is sunward
they're doing "tack the solar sails to the space-weathervane"
floral herald
I mean, I played dark eldar haha
main pagoda
floral herald
They just have like 1 cruiser and 1.5 escorts and 1 game plan
tired cairn
The dumbest match of the the video game adaptation of BFG I played was where my friend and I were both space marines and we just kitted orcs while throwing waves and waves of thunderbirds at them. We probably went through an entire chapter worth of space marines being sent on suicidal boarding actions
desert jay
It’s roughly
- Chaos: we’re the well rounded generalists here!
- Imperial Navy:...
I didn’t know there was a “the rest”
main pagoda
ad mech
tired cairn
There is mechanicus. Which I think are the Imperial Navy but slightly better
tired cairn
Eldar, I want to note, get rules based on which edge of the table is sunward
the...
It is a very weird given how their craftworlds spend long periods of time in the void between the stars lol. But I guess no one can easily find them there or something
floral herald
I mean like weird stuff like Admech (IN with 1-2 special ships), rogue traders (mix and match anything), bastion fleet (I don’t remember their deal I think they’re just IN with a strange fleet list), Inquisition, etc
desert jay
Also wait I just remembered the Kroot are in too
main pagoda
kroot spheres
floral herald
I don’t know if they could be played outside of Tau
floral herald
There was also Demiurg but I don’t think you could independently play them
uneven ember
AdMech is Imperial Navy but different
Rogue Trader is Imperial Navy but gimmickier
Demiurg are like two ships that are mostly Tau allies but it does mean that the Leagues of Votann have official rules in a game that was cancelled decades before being introduced
desert jay
Yeah the warspheres or whatever
uneven ember
demiurg have a list in the fan stuff, which was almost official stuff
main pagoda
XR?
uneven ember
it's had a pretty interesting life after cancellation
floral herald
The fan stuff is better for sure imo
main pagoda
its basically the only way to play the game
main pagoda
tbh the games not balanced nor is it meant to be
uneven ember
I'd need to look up a lot of the details, but
basically, the "Admiralty Board" on the old Specialist Games web forums had been putting together a big rules patch, which was supposed to be used more or less wholecloth for an official update/errata
but before it was, Specialist Games stopped existing and they were cast out into the wilderness with their unoficially official rules updated BFG
floral herald
tbh the games not balanced nor is it meant to be
I’m not talking about like competitively oriented very tight balance but some of the fleets were just way too strong (CWE, Necrons) and some just consistently sucked (Orks, Tyranids a little)
main pagoda
crons star engine made me cry
floral herald
Most of these factions were the ones which got really overhauled too
I love the Necron changes
It’s a little gameplay first but your ships “powering up” during combat kicks ass
uneven ember
Necrons, also, were overpowered but it is a bit funny that by playing them wrong it was (at least back when) possible to table your opponent and still lose
empty siren
If it wasn't 400 fucking dollars I want one
Because the guns are crazy
6 seeker missiles 🙏
tired cairn
I think that was the one where they slightly changed the aircraft/reserve rules in order to nerf it lol
empty siren
God I LOVE Tau. Two rail cannons? Yeah why not. Buncha fuckin missiles and anti infantry? Oh yeah. Guide this fucking thing with Montka or Kauyon for either Lethals or Ignore any or all modifiers to the hit/ballistic skill and also sustained hits 1 at BR3
Mmm only 325 pts 🤤
I wanna play Tau on TTS. Run the silly Imperial Armour stuff. Mmm Ta'unar Supremacy Armour
thin ibex
the ax10 is one of my favorite but its also like... measurably worse than the normal tiger shark rules wise
but I like the tigershark a lot more than i like the tau nar or stormsurge
because it matched my internal image of the tau better
the tiger shark can meme a bit when killing knights i suppose
uneven ember
related to Tau aircraft
also find it very funny that they are, I'm almost positive, the single faction in Aeronautica Imperialis that does not do bombs
at all
upper bluff
Really?
tired cairn
Why have bombs when you can use missiles?
upper bluff
I think the short answer is propelled munitions are more expensive and have less room for boom
But uhhh, I guess the Tau have that sorted
With chunks of steel propelled at the speed of kills you
uneven ember
With chunks of steel propelled at the speed of kills you
exactly!
they don't need dedicated air to ground munitions if they have a big enough gun that can be used for strafing attacks on ground targets and against enemy air
floral herald
I feel like if AI had come out a little more recently the Tau might have glide bombs
upper bluff
I mean nothing is stopping them from developing them next range update
empty siren
related to Tau aircraft
also find it very funny that they are, I'm almost positi...
Kindaaaa. We have a bomber I guess
I think Tau mostly do gun runs
A10 Warthog vibe
uneven ember
I think Tau mostly do gun runs
ya
their "bombers" just have big guns for shooting big targets
empty siren
Yeah. The datasheet for our bomber I've heard is okay. Or at least I've seen lists include it. Deals mortals. Das it unfortunately
I wanna do a missile army so bad
Fireknives, Missile-sides, Stormsurge. God I want a stormsurge so bad. I love this army so much
I need more aircraft/vehicles
This has become my favorite army of all time
thin ibex
We have the sunshark
empty siren
T'au are so cool...I'm so glad I switched off space marines for the faction with big ahh robots and cool flying units
Speaking of flying
Off topic but I am on a plane right now. Turbulence is actually really fun and exciting Im liking it. Anyways back to your regularly scheduled T'au propaganda. Buy the sea horses. We have cool mechs
Okay I'mma make the dumb financial decision to get a stormsurge
It's too cool not to get. I need to have that moment of rapid ingressing a stormsurge onto a stealthsuit. Just as a power move
uneven ember
hell yeah
empty siren
It's not a good idea because it'll so vulnerable. But. It sounds funny
bright dove
floral herald
I mean nothing is stopping them from developing them next range update
Oh, whoops I missed this I was thinking more aesthetically with how the Tau are kinda based on the Desert Storm US army/NATO and if they were a little more contemporary there would probably way way more glide bombs and drones
desert jay
Oh huh, someone pointed out that Canis Rex and 12 armigers is exactly 2000 pts
floral herald
I'd say Dogwalker Rex but it's kinda reversed isn't it?
runic swallow
Oh, whoops I missed this I was thinking more aesthetically with how the Tau are ...
And tactically too to a degree with the whole use of laser guided munitions and overwhelming firepower superiority
rocky shale
Canis rex is gonna be so busted unless the codex nerfs the army rule or something
upper canopy
Tau should have 3D printers
muted elm
Oh, whoops I missed this I was thinking more aesthetically with how the Tau are ...
yeah it'd fit the tau "mechanical aesthetic" (and give new life to the various drone models)
empty siren
Tau should have 3D printers
We need 3d printers
Our cool robot unit is 100 dollars for three models and 80 for a character to lead it
upper canopy
I love the idea that the Tau don't get them because GW doesn't want to acknowledge they exist
runic swallow
Am I wrong in thinking the squats have something like that?
Or Votan I guess they are now
thin ibex
I like tau drones but I totally get why they aren't in the game at the moment as units. That being said, a gun drone squad could easily have been a sepherim esque harassment unit
empty siren
I love the idea that the Tau don't get them because GW doesn't want to acknowled...
What the fuck is a T'au? Did you say you want another space marine drop? Okay here's another Primaris Lieutenant
thin ibex
I don't complain much as tau about lack of drops. I know my fate as a Xeno's main, and our models have aged a lot better than some factions.
brittle salmon
Canis rex is gonna be so busted unless the codex nerfs the army rule or somethin...
The Codex ain't coming out for a bit, Im sure there'll be a points cost increase for Imp Knights soon
thin ibex
Also I simply don't get to complain about my factions new model drops until the votann get more additions
upper canopy
As a Ynnari fan I get to complain until 65 million years after you've all faded to star dust
floral herald
Also I simply don't get to complain about my factions new model drops until the ...
At least they got an important new squad laundered onto their list via Kill Team like the World Eaters
empty siren
Imagine not being able to use your cool wizard powers because you got some god staring at you at all times
Imagine having a presence in the warp
Not us
brittle salmon
They were already getting results, now they're a fuckload cheaper with barely a dent in their durability
empty siren
Tau should just get a gun
As a model
Just give us a rail cannon. That's it. Nothing else to it. Oh wait they did I forgot
We just have a rail cannon. Just a rail cannon. That's it. Big fuck off gun. We need more tho. Give us a tidewall gunrig but with a trillion missiles
I know GW hates us, but can we please just get more missiles. Please James and your Workshop. I want more missiles. Just one model please I beg of you
thin ibex
I want a little more in the T11/12 range for us tbh, but not sure how I'd swing that
rocky shale
As a Ynnari fan I get to complain until 65 million years after you've all faded ...
Hey, we got uh... less units in the codex. And uhhhh nerfed yvraine
floral herald
and super cranked detachment rules and strategems
empty siren
I want a little more in the T11/12 range for us tbh, but not sure how I'd swing ...
I want something with AP
Like good AP
rocky shale
Though I'd trade some of the power for an ounce of lore
rocky shale
and super cranked detachment rules and strategems
I kinda wish it had been worse in the codex so it didnt become a boogieman
floral herald
Well idk how they are now after the nerfs
62% wr still
rocky shale
Jesus christ really?
floral herald
That or the stats haven't updated I'm not sure
rocky shale
Ill trade 5% WR for scourges and ravagers back
brittle salmon
Ynnari dominated comp play for like 3 months they were insane
rocky shale
Oh yeah I know that, they just lost a lot of unit choices in the codex in exchange for a wacky good detachment
floral herald
DoY are still I think really relevant but they're in 5th place factionally
Actually huh
rocky shale
Basically everything in the eldar codex is solid except for spirit host and guardian host (and the grotmas detachment is trash but not in the codex)
floral herald
Why are so many people playing Spirit Conclave?
rocky shale
because its amazing
rocky shale
Oh wait spirit
I read seer
No spirit conclave is probably because people love wraiths even when they suck
rocky shale
The detachment isnt even that bad they just lost a toughness and some good abilities in the codex
rocky shale
Might just be a bad meta all of a sudden too
I dont think the detachment has ever put up a good WR
The 50% for armoured warhost is funny because its like 1 guy
Going from T7->6 on a unit that expensive is brutal. Wraithguard also went from shooting back at people to fallback and shoot AND lost dev so its a bit rough
Wraithblades are kinda fine and wraithlords got a glow up
floral herald
The 50% for armoured warhost is funny because its like 1 guy
I love it when this happens there's like 7 guys who are making Chaos Cult the highest WR chaos space marines detachment
rocky shale
And then knights are like maybe playable but like 4/6 strats exclude them
rocky shale
I love it when this happens there's like 7 guys who are making Chaos Cult the hi...
This is just how every agents player is
I love eldar vehicles so armored warhost should appeal to me, but the detachment rule makes no sense and the only interesting strat is for deep striking a wave serpent
floral herald
It's a really funny spread
rocky shale
Wooooow
floral herald
Chaos Cult is being held up by a few players, the rest are... pretty even and literally no one is playing Dread Talons
rocky shale
battleshock detachment woes
rocky shale
The fact that they wrote this when they knew that the codex was going to give an agile manuever that was a non-advance advance move is crazy
"All my fast, long-range vehicles definitely need assault and rr advance on top of star engines" -statements said by the utterly deranged
On top of all their FW vehicles going to legends lmao
rocky shale
And 2 wins
oof
desert jay
No spirit conclave is probably because people love wraiths even when they suck
Here's the other question, is there a better detach for running a bunch of wraiths in?
sour sequoia
I love it when this happens there's like 7 guys who are making Chaos Cult the hi...
Brood Brothers was one of the highest WR detachments in the game for a while because of like two absolute freaks
Its. Its not good.
mental birch
I think I'm the local absolute freak for retaliation cadre
west zealot
‘So when I turn dis on, it uses da energy of dese warp engines to cause a katastroffic warp implosion!’
Ufthak frowned. ‘Is dat good?’
‘Course it’s good!’ Da Boffin scoffed. ‘S’got a lot of fingies, syllables, innit? Like, “grot” is bad, but “Wazbom Blastajet” is good.’
thin ibex
I want something with AP
We generally have great AP on our good guns. If you want generally more AP though you can play aux cadre
brittle salmon
Experimental Prototype Cadre too
pine matrix
‘So when I turn dis on, it uses da energy of dese warp engines to cause a katast...
That rocks
west zealot
That rocks
Mike Brooks writes some excellent Orks
faint galleon
any thoughts on his Lelith Hesperax book? considering reading
west zealot
any thoughts on his Lelith Hesperax book? considering reading
Distinctly okay, one of his weaker books
pastel rampart
west zealot
Not a bad book by any means, it's eminently readable, he's very good at making an easy read
But I can't see myself rereading it any time soon, unlike say Rites of Passage or his Ork books
His Lion, soon of the forest is similar, it just kinda... Stops - I think he's hamstrung by the demands GW puts on him for big characters, he seems to do a lot better with original character in and around the world
(like his Alpha legion book is great, and Solomon is a fantastic lead
So... I didn't think it's a waste of time to read, but it's just a popcorn read
Hope that helps!
pulsar cairn
https://www.instagram.com/p/DKnTeWBoZB6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
one of them was a heretic
empty siren
We generally have great AP on our good guns. If you want generally more AP thoug...
I want more AP
Our stormsurge needs an AP buff istg
thin ibex
everyone wants more AP
empty siren
Our stormsurge really needs it
It's our Knight model. Not even a dreadnought. Dreadnoughts have AP. Knights have AP. Why not the cool big mech
rocky shale
I mean it does have AP on the big guns
thin ibex
well the knight doesnt have a str 24 dmg 12 gun
rocky shale
Knights also have guns with low AP
empty siren
I just want more AP lol
I think our stormsurge needs a bit more AP options
Oh hold up that's funny. Stormsurge melee deals more damage than the manta
Oh we do have an AP option that isn't the primary weapon! Or the destroyer missiles!
It's the melee!
Thank goodness for that
tardy vault
rocky shale
There are tons of strats for AP in tau
Plus all the ones that don't have in on the stormsurge are the secondary weapons all battlesuits get
Oh and the big blast weapon
But a 4d6 attack weapon was never getting AP in the first place
Aaaand basically every gun has ignores cover too
thin ibex
the thing about the stormsurge secondaries is that they are very much volume/chaff fire
Its primaries generally have good AP (Big gun and destroyers)
I do understand the desire for more AP, I do think its a limiting factor for the stormsurge, but also, everyone wants more AP all the time
no one wants the enemy to be making their armor saves
but also not every gun in the game needs to make a mockery of a 4+ or 5+ save
upper canopy
I find it very funny that most Titans do not actually have Anti-Air weapons
floral herald
We gotta get the legio titanica IADS walkers GW plz
upper canopy
No I think it's really funny if Imperials just don't realize this
and the Tau are like
"Why is this so easy"
rocky shale
The questoris knights kit has an AA gun but nobody uses it because aircraft suck
Using it just means you clown on tau and elf vehicles occasionally
thin ibex
Actually that gun is pretty decent now. It's not AA but anti fly, and a lot of stuff has fly
Anti fly often kicks Tau in the teeth
Almost all our vehicles have fly
rocky shale
That's why I mentioned tau lol
thin ibex
Fair was mostly responding to the comment about aircraft, since it's not limited to then anymore
Them*
thin ibex
I think it's weird that Titans don't have more secondary point defense weapons in general
thin ibex
Like a warhound just has its 2. No chin stubbers, no knee multilasers, no mortars, nadda
rocky shale
All the vehicles in 40k are flying bricks so the titans can just swat them out of the sky because they're so slow
thin ibex
Warhammer aircraft follow the Godzilla and king Kong school of flying, needlessly fly really close for no reason
Also side note, I feel like anti fly isn't bad, you just don't want to bring it in volume. There's actually a fairly high chance you'll encounter keyword fly units on some level in most fights. Admittedly your bigger guns don't need it, but it makes some volume fire guns more effective
rocky shale
It's not bad if you get it incedentally
I just would never take it over a more generally useful thing if the difference wasn't that big
My local meta also has a lot of guard and marines and nids
So less fliers than if it was tau and elves
thin ibex
Yeah, though I know marines are often bringing inceptors and jump intercessors, I think the stormraven is back out of fashion
Guard really don't have fly units. Do the Aquillon have fly?
hard whale
I'm pretty sure their gear is more like a parachute than a jetpack
floral herald
Emperor titans do have AA guns but the small ones don’t
Air warfare in 40K is basically stuck in like 1940 tho
hard whale
yeah, Aquilons have better Deep Strike but they're pedestrians once they touch down.
thin ibex
I still think warhounds should have smaller point defense guns
thin ibex
yeah, Aquilons have better Deep Strike but they're pedestrians once they touch d...
Oh I know the flavor, was more curious about the mechanical keyword
rocky shale
Fly is such a clunky keyword this edition
There are so few times when it matters
Flying vehicles have to be incredibly fast to clear most ruins moving diagonally over them
Flying infantry usually doesn't matter because they can move through ruins
Every once in a while my Warp Spiders get to do something cute because fly + 14" move does let them get a bit tricky with things
The units that get "ignore vertical distance in movement" should rally be the fly rules IMO
thin ibex
i generally agree
its biggest utility is your ability to fall back in any direction and potentially declare charges through another unit; but they feel niche
empty siren
Aaaand basically every gun has ignores cover too
I want MORE
I won't ever be satisfied
MORE gun
MORE shooty
empty siren
Ew
Humans
Sea Horse is where it's at
Guard don't have big ass mechs
They have scout Walker things. But they don't have Titanfall
I play Tau because I played too much Titanfall
(I say as I construct an auxiliary detachment list)
rocky shale
Then you'll have to live with having the second most shooty gun line
empty siren
Second most if I care about statistics
But I'm biased
And ignorant
😎
I just like the alien gun line. Human gun line while cool. Boring imo
empty siren
Then no AP for you
:( AP for me
All the AP
A man can hope
There's stratagems anyways
sour sequoia
You'll shoot your AP0 ignores cover guns and like it XD
Hey if its good enough for neophytes its good enough for tau
runic swallow
Sure, I’ll wait while your tank commanders have a panic attack trying to manage three separate turrets 
finite compass
Sure, I’ll wait while your tank commanders have a panic attack trying to manage ...
If they're panicking, their faith in the Emperor is insufficient
sour sequoia
Loving that my unit math essentially didn’t change at all with the knights changes
Still just punting 80-odd lethal sustain shotguns at em
finite compass
I also love the old design that's just like
"We have one Baneblade, yes. But what if we also had SECOND Baneblade?"
The Stormhammer
rocky shale
Still just punting 80-odd lethal sustain shotguns at em
I think they're actually more durable against that
finite compass
The 30k design just doesn't hit the same but it's also great
rocky shale
Since more wounds
finite compass
sour sequoia
I think they're actually more durable against that
Technically yes but I was reliably overkilling war dogs before especially after a crossfire tag from a ridgerunner
It’s down to ‘reliably killing’
rocky shale
Ahhh
sour sequoia
The extra 2 wounds doesn’t really change anything under that volume and the infantry grenade launchers / mining lasers wound 1 better
tired cairn
The cathedral-optics thing on the front turret is going to have a bad day if the back turret shoots in its direction
finite compass
It amuses me because this is literally a thing that has happened.
Like historically
The first time the Bismarck fired its main guns in anger, it irreparably fucked its own rangefinder from the shockwave
past sphinx
The stormhammer is like
A holy grail
A thing that I cannot possess but can live to chase
pastel rampart
Is it bad that I looked at the price for the Stormhammer and thought "huh, $310 is on the cheaper side of FW."
uneven ember
nah, that's just... accurate
past sphinx
anybody know where the cool CSM dragon head lascannon bits come from
its gotta be from one of the vehicle sprues i think\
ah csm predator
finite compass
the old Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue?
...THey still package these, right?
Haven't gotten a chaos tank in like 20 years...
past sphinx
i sure hope so
the CSM predator hsa been online only and out of stock for a while now. . . .
soft willow
They do still add those exact sprues
Bought a Chaos Rhino a couple weeks ago with it
floral herald
D o g b o x
o
g
b
o
x
rocky shale
I already had 7 (4 armigers 3 dogs) so I'm actually just set for life
Gotta hope the Lgs in the next town over has a codex
rotund flax
Never need another war dog again
Doggos
floral herald
I got that box 20% off from a closing store I’m stoked
tired cairn
how much other stuff did you end up buying? 😛
rocky shale
Even the local store that does discounts only had theirs at 5% off
sonic hare
Never need another war dog again
it got that dog(s) in it
floral herald
how much other stuff did you end up buying? 😛
Nothing gw plastic is expensive
I’m going back next week as the sale scales up to see what’s left
rocky shale
There's like 4 LGS that carry warhammer within 30min of me, I'd sacrifice one for sales that good
floral herald
This is unfortunately a going out of business sale
rocky shale
This is unfortunately a going out of business sale
No that's what I meant
floral herald
Oooooh
rocky shale
I'll sacrifice the chud lgs for a going out of business sale and keep the other 3
mental birch
There's like 4 LGS that carry warhammer within 30min of me, I'd sacrifice one fo...
I buy my stuff at 20% off base
Haahaah
west zealot
Never need another war dog again
I'm not a fan of most knight designs. But the dogs? They're good boys. The best boys.
rocky shale
I buy my stuff at 20% off base
Send me some lol
paper bluff
Yeah same
sonic hare
its standard here to give 10-20% discounts on warhammer stuff at LGS's
main pagoda
its GWs policy by enlarge
mental birch
Send me some lol
Jsut come up to Malaysia for vacation third cheapest Base price for wsrhammer in the world
:p
unreal cosmos
Never need another war dog again
god that looks so fucking tasty
I want to do the Dog Park list I don't care if it's the cheese or not
west zealot
Grey knights in shambles
dense idol
west zealot
I killed 0 models
Hence why they're in shambles! Can you imagine the shame? Outfoxed! Outwitted! Out thought! Pure bamboozlement courtesy of the Great space chicken!
I just like to imagine your units were incredibly polite too "Scuse me good sirs, just gotta nip past here..."
Grey knight frothing about the emperor
"There's really no need for that language sirs, five seconds and we'll be gone "
(honestly, a lord of change who's just endlessly polite in very working class, just doing me job would make for a very fun villain)
Mainly because everyone would be constantly off balance expecting anything else
mental birch
Hence why they're in shambles! Can you imagine the shame? Outfoxed! Outwitted! O...
I didn't bother attacking
Wasre of time
mental birch
Mainly because everyone would be constantly off balance expecting anything else
My lord of change for this army is a big bird
west zealot
He appears to be from a seed related road.
mental birch
Sunny days
thin ibex
Wait so did you never choose anyone to shoot and only fight when you had to?
And otherwise just always fell back and didn't charge?
uneven ember
hell yeah
empty siren
"ELMO! YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE THINGS I'VE SEEN! YOU'RE BUT AN ATOM IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THE GREAT SCHEMER!"
But Elmo already knew. The grand plan was coming to fruition, with him at its helm. Big Bird is but a cog. Elmo... Elmo is the Deceiver's chosen. But Big Bird knows nothing, such is the will of the All Knowing.
Big Bird doesn't know Elmo can count to three. Such arcane knowledge was but a taste of a drop of The Schemers power. He hungers for more. Elmo wants to count to five...and Big Bird will get him there
empty siren
Anyways. I love the paint scheme! Looks sick. Meme models are the best models
mental birch
And otherwise just always fell back and didn't charge?
Eyuup
Or ran and stood onto 1" in front of folks
Or stuffed a corrdioor
thin ibex
do we have any more lore on the Celestial dragon for warhammer fantasy/ apparently its a creature that pre-existed the old ones arrival?
upper canopy
The Celestial Dragons are just dragons
and dragons existed long before the Old Ones and Gods appeared
thin ibex
oh thats cool
so like the Celestrial Dragon Emperor or whatever is just broadly the same kind of dragon as, i dunno, a star dragon sleeping in caledor?
upper canopy
yep
The Dragon Emperor just seems to be one of the most powerful dragons alive
on par with a god
still warren
I think the only newer lore is the lunar dragon/queen (i forget the exact name) taught him how to take a human form
tepid stratus
I do wonder if GW will take the risk of further unifying the cosmology with AOS. I'd be really curious to know what the dragon emperors relationship to dracothian would be. Given dracothian is the god of dragons and father of the modern dragons if AOS. I suppose they could still make the connection regardless since dracothian is one of the gods worshipped by the lizardmen
Provided they bring legacy content back into official printing
tepid stratus
So most likely he is not the Emperor in any way
Dracothian and sotek are separate entities at least as far as AOS goes. I meant more of if DE is a peer of dracothian or one of his children
Given the dragon emperor is on the high end of the old world power scale and is one of the oldest dragons
upper canopy
Unless there's been New Lore my understanding is they were very much implied to be the same being
tepid stratus
Sotek the deliverer and dracothian's tail are seperate constellations venerated by the seraphon
Implying they're separate beings. Sotek being a god of rituals, sacrifice and vengeance while dracothian is a god of stars and fate
tepid stratus
Well there was that giant serpent that ate a skaven city. But explicitly speaking dracothian is the only one of their gods to physically show up since the old ones left
west zealot
Sotke, staggering in drunk: Hi guys. What i miss?
Dracothin: YOU ARE HOW MANY MILLENIA LATE!?
mental birch
faint galleon
da box
floral herald
This guy looks pretty sick
pulsar cairn
Its really funny when the imperium guy looks chaos
thin ibex
This guy looks pretty sick
New Chaplain model, 30k model, or new unit?
Either way he looks like a chunky boy
thin ibex
Oh sounds aggressive
floral herald
Melee beatstick who gives charge+advance it sounds like
tardy vault
KO Battletome reveal
A new hero, two new units, and new terrian
also, the new unit has at least 3 female heads and the Battletome has a woman on the cover
floral herald
I really dig those salvagers
upper bluff
Honestly Kharadron drop pods is genius
mental birch
No line grinding unit from this
main pagoda
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rrielj4b/old-world-almanack-grand-cathay-on-the-tabletop/ also some cathay rules
deft crest
They're great looking kits
Damn these dwarves do make me wanna play em
that concept is sick af
rocky shale
I love the KO concept I just don't love Dwarven astehtics so much
main pagoda
I do think they should just merge fyreslayers and KO, its two very small ranges that unfortunately have not much difference between the units looks wise
jaunty dawn
This guys is cool too
wet grotto
jaunty dawn
The terrain is a little confusing tho
runic swallow
Yes, but how do you mean?
They’re basically the FBI to the planetary local cops
But like if every FBI guy was also Judge Dredd
thin ibex
They're weird in that that have broad and absolute authority as judge jury and executioner, but are also sometime hive based beat super cops
charred bridge
There's also several ranks and divisions of arbites
paper bluff
But yeah, they're the judges from the UK comic Judge Dredd bascially
charred bridge
The judge dreads one are usually arbitrator, theyre the ones doing a frontal assault on a governor's office because the local enforcers are following planetary govenor more than arbites, a bad idea. They have slightly less combat roles like hound units for tracking targets and even episoniage plain clothes one
paper bluff
Did you expect the imperium to have some thing like a "functioning court systen"? This ain't Ultramar
quaint compass
it does have a functioning court system
Unfortunately it's in use as it gets in the way of imperial justice
charred bridge
It functions very well, but is it a good as in good for people, no.
Mr Roboto G wanted to basically dismantle the imperium as we know it for the emp's dreams but saw it was so wrong yet so tightly coupled that dismantling any one part will cause great setbacks and risk being overtaken
deft crest
This guys is cool too
I absolutely adore the diving suit look
its like
legit so fucking sick
jaunty dawn
Yeee
pulsar cairn
Yes, but how do you mean?
Their laws are giga whacky, how do they even know when to arrest someone when there are so many laws that contradict themselves?
floral herald
It’s “when they want to”
charred bridge
"Because I said so" r+e faction
misty violet
They're weird in that that have broad and absolute authority as judge jury and e...
I think that when they aren't holding a gun to the planetary governors head in order to maintain the tithe and such they go out and deal with regular criminals because they also break imperial law, it's just lower on the scale and there's typically too few of them on a planet to replace the enforcers
But there's still whole fortresses of them posted up on most hive worlds
pulsar cairn
sounds like the arbites dont do anything useful then 
do they often assist sisters of silence gather psykers?
or was that a one time thing in the animations?
unreal cosmos
sounds like the arbites dont do anything useful then <:vicksyDerp:13241054535668...
Yeah we already established they're cops
pulsar cairn
okay?
finite compass
Arbites are basically the Feds
They care about Imperial Law
Not Planetary law
You have a maniac running around carving up factory workers in a habzone, that's a job for the Enforcers.
The factory has an uprising which threatens payment of the Imperial tithe, then the Arbites are going to take notice
finite compass
That's explicitly the reason they're there
Like it's outright stated that their number one complaint with Atoma and the Inquisition's handling thereof is the Tithe hasn't been restored yet
pulsar cairn
right i think i get it now 
floral herald
I think they’re quietly also trying to muscle in jurisdictionally because the inquisitor is a sketchy one
Mass arming a paramilitary of violent criminals and such
pulsar cairn
fair i do like Rannik a lot tho 
i hope he stays in charge
finite compass
I think they’re quietly also trying to muscle in jurisdictionally because the in...
TBF, they...HAVE no jurisdiction there.
It's the Inquisition
floral herald
There can be dual jurisdictions in the mess of agencies the imperium fields :p
finite compass
Though this is also the classic hilarious 40k problem of what happens when you have two people with, on paper, unlimited authority who are now butting heads with one another
Rogue Trader did this amusingly
In that Heinrix can, technically, order you around and commandeer your ship. But he's also very aware that it's your ship, you're in the middle of nowhere, you have the loyalty of the crew, and access to thousands of guns and an entire death cult.
misty violet
Yeah, that's the thing with the Darktide situation. Apparently Marshal Vortern was more or less letting Grendyl try to do it their way, and the Inquisition theoretically supersedes all organizations, but now Vortern is having pressure put on them/is antsy to get the tithe restored and so put political pressure on Grendyl to let his Arbites take over partly
rocky shale
In that Heinrix can, technically, order you around and commandeer your ship. Bu...
You can even talk to him about this it's very funny
In my iconoclast run I liked dragging him around and making him watch my RT be nice to people (only partially because he's crazy powerful holy shit)
pulsar holly
so this will never get solved
Ahh just like the Nachmund Rift
west zealot
Ahh just like the Nachmund Rift
Probably! It's just very funny to consider
When does Darktide even happen relative to the Great Rift?
charred bridge
Though this is also the classic hilarious 40k problem of what happens when you h...
It's really an unspoken whoever holds the most leverage over the others or whoever gets there first
charred bridge
Mass arming a paramilitary of violent criminals and such
Yea brahm says Grendyl has always been aggressive but she is shocked about the rejects as that's reckless even for them. Taking prisoners of an arbites barge and giving them guns to head off into the depths of Atoma's hive?
And the hive is still active and full of people I assume.
Anywhere there wasnt the pox blight
pulsar holly
And the hive is still active and full of people I assume.
Have to assume so since far as we know the Lord of the Moebian Domain is still alive and kicking in the High Spire.
charred bridge
Yea, it isn't talked about cause today was arbites day. But there's auric mortis trials and it has new lore
west zealot
I am rolling at seeing Morty described with "limited edition autographed heart"
It's true!
sour sequoia
Atalan Jackals moving to 2 resurgence points for a 5-man is making them my favorite 75pts in the game
Blowing all my respawn points on these shitty little bikers because it’s sustained hits 1 on a grenade launcher, lascannon and driveby mortals with 12 wounds
The min units all being 2 points now except neophytes and aberrants is actually kinda huge, just respawning genestealers to run at stragglers in round 2-3-4 is big
Previously your respawn fodder was basically always the flamer acolytes
dense sedge
There can be dual jurisdictions in the mess of agencies the imperium fields :p
imperium jurisdictions are extremely arbirtrary due to almost all of them having exceptions that let them do what they want, meaning it usually comes down to whoever has the most and biggest guns
west zealot
‘Like da tinboy on dat humie ship didn’t know yer woz orks cos yer woz holdin’ up dead humies in front of ya?’ Da Boffin asked him.
Ufthak shrugged. ‘More or less.’
‘Boss, it noticed real quick, an’ den yer had to hit it wiv da hammer, an’ den it blew up an’ killed ya.’
‘Got close enuff to hit it wiv da hammer, tho,’
deft crest
I love his books a lot
pulsar holly
Oh neat you can play as a Brettonian in Warhammer The Old World Roleplaying Game
dense sedge
Tin boys are marines right?
unreal cosmos
I think in this case it's an automata
paper bluff
The grail knights are... humans with the lady of the lake's ||elven goddess'|| blessing
Magic gets so into their bodies that even while dead there's still some power there
Or peasents just like toting them around
thin ibex
whats even the like... logic there? Grail knights inadvertantly protecting the woods?
paper bluff
Buffer zone
Also if you rely on nights you don't have a reason to technologically develop the past nights to generate steam to be able to power engines or using explosives
west zealot
Tin boys are marines right?
It was a kastellan iirc
rocky shale
The grail knights are... humans with the lady of the lake's ||elven goddess'|| b...
It also makes them French which is wild
paper bluff
Begs the question, are the wood elves German? Tuetoburg sort kinda I would say
charred bridge
The most 40k thing is calling a 51min video a "short movie", the numbers in the future are wild.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN0WMa2ayS8
bright dove
Slot in some commercial breaks, and you've got yourself a TV timeslot.
paper bluff
I'd recommend saving/downloading that if you really like it
past sphinx
still warren
one for every chaos god
upper canopy
Weezer
past sphinx
weezer and two sound techs
charred bridge
Ideal for flanking the side of the Beatles standing in a line
west zealot
No, no, it's just a harmonica! A big shooty harmonica
empty siren
I just realized
Stormsurge has a 4+ invul
Ignores modifiers to hit and ballistic outright. Can walk through terrain. Most weapons are heavy. You guide a stormsurge and it's hitting on 2s because fuck cover and fuck stealth
Downside. Not a lotta AP. Upside. Tau are good at splitfiring now :)
Got diverse weapon profiles too
Pulse blast for anti tank. Got a 4d6 blast weapon. Indirect. Etc etc
I love stormsurges ugh
rocky shale
Ignores modifiers to hit and ballistic outright. Can walk through terrain. Most ...
I was confused and thought stormsurge has super heavy walker but turns out it's only moving over models or terrain 4" tall or less
rocky shale
Ignores modifiers to hit and ballistic outright. Can walk through terrain. Most ...
How is it hitting on 2s?
It normally is 4+ BS
Ohhh guiding js +1BS
Heavy is +1 to hit
I will simply not stand in Los of the stormsurge
Downside is more expensive than every knight lmao
main pagoda
yeah increasing the BS and increasing the hit mod dont overlap
empty siren
How is it hitting on 2s?
Heavy + guided
Guided is +1 BS
Guide with a Markerlight to get ignore cover. Straight up ignores modifiers
My brain didn't process that you corrected yourself my bad 😭😭
I want a stormsurge so bad
upper bluff
The most 40k thing is calling a 51min video a "short movie", the numbers in the ...
I like the comment on this video "I love that everything in the Warhammer universe is incomprehensibly large, even the short films are an hour long"
charred bridge
Like the cost of the minis
finite compass
I love the Ufthak books so much
``‘Dat planet,’ Mogrot Redtoof said, looking out of a viewport, ‘is made of metal.’
Ufthak nodded sagely.
...
Looks like a humie mekboy place,’ Ufthak said. ‘Humie mekboy ship, coming from a humie mekboy planet. Makes sense to me.’
‘Why do dey do dat, anyway?’ Mogrot asked. ‘Make dere planets all shiny so ya know dey’ve got flashy stuff ya might want, and den when ya go to get it, dey get all annoyed an’ try to kill ya?’
‘Dat’s da problem wiv humies,’ Ufthak opined knowingly. ‘Dey ain’t logickal.’``
past sphinx
its an incredible tragedy that his model contained so little of his charisma
uneven ember
This guy looks pretty sick
oh fuck yeah
desert jay
TBF "five enemies standing directly in front of you in an equidistant line" is not a hard ask from pike and shot warfare
finite compass
Too bad AoS got rid of ranks
thin ibex
Darktide has me inspired to make an arbites heavy list
rocky shale
Darktide has me inspired to make an arbites heavy list
The ordo hereticus detachment in IA has some support for that
sour sequoia
Slowly, my neophytes are based. 116 to go
unreal cosmos
Oooh! Gives me some tacticool vibes
deft crest
Kill team updates woo
They answered a question that I think my local group asked specifically
(about seek light vs Vantage seek and if you can choose to use seek light to deny improved light cover saves)
It was during a game of me with kroot and my opponent as cops
No balance changes for the most part
deft crest
-# ALSOUnrelated. Vampire coast pirates should just have some kinda like, convoy system instead of treasure maps in total war 3. It would accomplish the same thing 
-# Meet foreign power, Put asset at risk, Get money.
empty siren
I will simply not stand in Los of the stormsurge
Good luck
The moment I see the TINIEST bit of a model, you got a trillion Markerlights pointed at you
Don't forget
Indirect fire from two sms systems :)
thin ibex
tbh? play the hide from the stormsurge game. Because if its got its long range gun, it'll kill armor slow, if its got its big boomba gun, its gotta be in 24 to slap properly. To make it earn its points cost its gotta be killing all the time
so to make it inefficient, just make it not kill for a round or two
thin ibex
Do we know if arbites have any authority over mechanicus personnel on an imperial world?
presumably they'd be able to take action if they affect the tithe
but i know its a bit different even than their relationship with inquisition
quaint compass
Afaik the Mechanicus are a separate state, with its own jurisdiction
As long as the cogward is inside imperial governance the arbite get free reign imo
floral herald
My understanding is that in general the mechanicus are not subject to imperial law
but the arbites are empowered to enforce the law of all of the adeptus terra, which includes the mechanicus
So Arbites in specific yes, but local enforcers and other bodies no
charred bridge
Afaik the Mechanicus are a separate state, with its own jurisdiction
As long as...
Or lack of, they kind of go where they want.
Forge Worlds arent subject to imperium law and dont need to tithe but they often make things for the imperium in lieu if
Unless youre a higher ranking ad mech you let the ad mech do whatever that isnt overtly heretical. They probably wouldnt submit to an arbites unless they for some reason got an order from fabricator general telling the tech priest or they'll get into a fight they'll lose
main pagoda
they do have their own version of enforcers/arbities
one of the warhammer crime books delves into it alot
charred bridge
Sort of? Collegiate Extremis are the enforcers on forge world
empty siren
so to make it inefficient, just make it not kill for a round or two
Precisely why my plan isn't to have it out until I can rapid ingress it on the enemy's turn
Stealthsuits infiltrate and can 0cp rapid ingress a unit near them
I essentially (not really) have an infiltrating stormsurge
Unless I'm wrong and that's not how rapid ingress works on stealthsuits
tired cairn
I think the rapid ingress unit still follows all their other rules for coming from reserves. That is, I don't think it gives Deep Strike
But it's not the most clearly worded on that front
tired cairn
I can't tell if that is supposed to be a further restriction or totally replace the setup rule
Though I guess mentioning the distance from the enemy suggests the latter 🤔
empty siren
I think replace the set up???
It says "It must"
So to me that sounds like you disregard other restrictions and place it next to
That sounds like a weird statement lemme clarify
It sounds like other than being outside 9" from the enemy, it has to be set up 3" from the unit
Rapid ingress has a Battle Round restriction on how a unit is set up yeah? Like, if it's BR1, you can only rapid ingress in your deployment zone?
tired cairn
That's not a property of rapid ingress. It's a property of reserves
tired cairn
Yes. It's just really not clear to me if the within 3" is supposed to be a further restriction or an extra bonus
This isn't a problem for terminators because they have deep strike
thin ibex
homing beacon doesn't let you ds turn 1 as a note
but you can still make a splash turn 2
and it means youre not getting alpha struck
empty siren
Oh so that works as well
I'll just play the slow game
Drag you out of cover
Play Kauyon. Like, I'm not worried if you're being slow, that helps me
Use small silly units to score secondaries. My favorite to use recently has been firesight team. Stealth, lone op, infiltrate, 70pts
Now that Battlesuits cost 80, I've been using firesight team for my infiltrate nonsense and guiding cause they're markerlight
And it's a character. Throw an enhancement or something on it
Downside, late game assassinate
rocky shale
I feel like I should be able to rapid ingress a stormsurge on a stealthsuit?
You cannot deep strike a unit without deep strike so you can only use the homing beacon on normal units within 6" of board edge
floral herald
Yes. It's just really not clear to me if the within 3" is supposed to be a furth...
It's the former
Oh I was too late
rocky shale
Infiltrate a stealth suit on board edge behind cover
And can only deploy in opponents deployment zone on round 3+
empty siren
I do not need to rapid ingress a stormsurge in the back line
rocky shale
Yes you do
thin ibex
question: When do you need to pivot? As i understand it, a vehicle does not hav a "front" and when checking wahapedia rules, you don't HAVE to pivot for most movements.
soft willow
Any time you want to change the way the vehicle is oriented you pay to pivot.
Unless it has a round base.
thin ibex
so there isn't a time where it HAS to really? So its mostly pivot when its advantageous for you or to fit down a movement path?
soft willow
Yup
thin ibex
ok that gels with what i was thinking
soft willow
If you can move in a straight line without changing how the model is oriented you're fine.
thin ibex
its less about.. i forget the word but making it look "right" with the model, and more about what movement avenues you want to use
soft willow
And it can move in any direction, even though it makes no sense for a tracked vehicle to move sideways like a crab.
thin ibex
or you can use pivots to like maybe mess with LoS too
soft willow
It's an abstraction for rules purposes.
thin ibex
like turning a rhino sideways to make a better blocker
soft willow
Yup
thin ibex
iirc the devilfish is really bad at sight blocking xD
cause you can see right under it
actually weird question. If someone is behind a barricade and their bases are covered, and the devilfish covers LoS to their upper half, they are out of los?
soft willow
Can you see the models from the shooting model? If no, no LoS.
True LoS is how it works in 40k which is silly but simple.
thin ibex
nice ok, niche scenario but possible
soft willow
In your case probably not assuming the shooting model can't see over the devilfish.
thin ibex
yeah its True LoS*
*except for Ruins
i do think ruins working that way is overall super healthy for the game
really makes shooting castles less attractive
soft willow
Yup
rocky shale
Yeah it's a major downside for flying vehicles that they can't really Los block
sour sequoia
Okay so turbofucked thing about vehicle LOS is that the underside counts too
Basically anything besides the old monolith, a lord of skulls, or a rockgrinder/vindicator can be seen through because of the undercarriage not being flush to the ground
quaint compass
Prone Firing as a landraider barrels straight at ya
main pagoda
Basically anything besides the old monolith, a lord of skulls, or a rockgrinder/...
drawing LOS like that is abit bad taste imho
while 40k does use true los but theres abit of spirt of play involved
thin ibex
cant the rhino/vindicator/predator block LoS when turned sideways?
pastel rampart
empty siren
Yeah it's a major downside for flying vehicles that they can't really Los block
Upside is they just say nuhuh to engagement
Tau crisis suits are based for that
They look at your attempt to get in melee, say nuhuh, fly over you with 10"-12" movement
T'au fortifications actually have fly fun fact. So you can be trying to charge a giant floating cannon and it just floats above you. Which is a fun visual
All our models that aren't infantry are really tall and wide. So we just get fucked when trying to hide
Our vehicles are hard to hide and REALLY squishy
rocky shale
Upside is they just say nuhuh to engagement
They still get engaged they can just fall back over units
empty siren
That's the nice part about riptides
They can fallback and shoot. They also fly
Engagement with Tau is just how you bully them
Not our crisis suits because they're vehicles and can shoot in engagement
But, everything else is just brutal. I got into combat with a pox walker unit with like 5 guys left. Our pistols suck, our melee sucks, they can't fall back and shoot. I kept doing no damage because I hit on fucking 5s and wound of 5s
Tip to kill Tau. Melee and our infantry
thin ibex
that assuming whatever gets them engaged doesnt die in that fight phase of course
empty siren
I think if the T'au player has something in engagement range. Something is wrong
That's why I don't like retaliation cadre
thin ibex
nah thats i think classic tau thinking, but the truth of the matter is youre going to get something into engagement. That's going to happen. You need to plan for it and try and control what gets engaged
empty siren
9" for +1 str and -1 ap? Fuck that. With my, what is it, toughness 7 crisis suits with 2-3 wounds???
thin ibex
better your kroot or your fire warriors get trapped in melee than your big guns
empty siren
Oh I forgot about kroot
Yeah I need to learn how to utilize kroot. Their melee profiles can be kinda spooky
thin ibex
they're a little meh in melee for the most part, but they can do actions, are stealthy, and them dying isn't so bad
rampagers are real good tho
i like em
and you can stuff opponents using big kroot blobs
empty siren
I need more kroot. They do look fun
I feel bad for hating on them not too long ago
They're actually really good cheap units that you can use for scoring or screening. Basic kroot got sticky obj too
thin ibex
super useful, just not super killy
empty siren
I always feel bad when my vespids die because they're my secondary scoring units
thin ibex
synergy
empty siren
But they're squishy and have 5 models a unit for 65
thin ibex
they do evaporate to any incidental fire, but if you play em a bit crafty, they can pay dividends
empty siren
super useful, just not super killy
They can at least be used for a heroic intervention
thin ibex
work nicely in aux cadre too, theres a strat to get a fall back at the end of the fight phase, keeping them free start of the move phase next round
empty siren
I'll mostly use them for scoring or to throw in infront of something
I can deal with kroot dying. My breachers??? Hell no
thin ibex
kroot are classic bubble wrap
empty siren
Oh yeah, aux cadre is really good
The 18" lone op is kinda...meh
But a bonus ap for all (but towering units) when within 9" of a kroot or vespid is really nice
thin ibex
18" lone op is just "You dont get to infantry wipe me turn one"
empty siren
That's fair
thin ibex
stick a single tau unit who also has lone op near your backline kroot campers, boom, untouchable
empty siren
Decent army rule. Also really nice stratagems
That +2 strength stratagem sounds nasty
If you got a kroot rampager team right next to a flamer Starscythes
You get a sweet +2 str and bonus 2 ap (only if you're targeting a non monster/vehicle)
past sphinx
Necrons were bad even before they were robots right? I mean bad as in bad people
an empire built on spite and turbo omnicide
empty siren
Nasty against say like poxwalkers and on top of that, leaving most on an invul or no save
I love Tau
It's actually taught me a lot about getting better at the game (sometimes). I used to way overextend and just get absolutely punished for it
No Im just aggressive with a hint of patience
I play Kauyon like it's Mont'ka to bait out infantry
Also cause I'm no coward
I'm just trynna get used to how SQUISHY Tau is
And learn to be better at 40k. Hope I'm not coming off as all over the place, Tau defender
I just like my big robot. Make fun of our infantry but leave my Mechas alone :(
sour sequoia
drawing LOS like that is abit bad taste imho
Kinda late response on my part but believe me I’m in full agreement
paper bluff
Necrons were bad even before they were robots right? I mean bad as in bad people
My personal head Canon is yes. And that they were like the skaven (yeah. I think the necrotyr were the 40k skaven at least society and tech wise)
sour sequoia
I think its a worthy mention so people don’t suddenly get their shit rocked at a tourney because its the way most TOs I meet are gonna rule for their own peace of mind
pulsar cairn
My personal head Canon is yes. And that they were like the skaven (yeah. I think...
give give me warp stone
paper bluff
And if the skaven asked you for perfect health and immortality, it's extremely reasonable that the old ones said no
pulsar cairn
makes sense to me
floral herald
I think its a worthy mention so people don’t suddenly get their shit rocked at a...
Yeah it’s a big split between casual and comp 40K I think
I have been tempted to put appliqué armor skirts which touch the ground on my chaos rhinos
main pagoda
see then you run into modelling for advantage crowd
much cheaper option is the ol "really man" stare and eyebrow
main pagoda
true
armour skirts just add a lil touch to imperium and chaos vics
also a big fan of the genre of random shit go
finite compass
https://external-preview.redd.it/a8PuCvXWu9DYhzS_QU7osRSDaGQOZxJi7S92oDDAsXU.jpg...
Is that an ogre shield?
finite compass
This reminds me of a thing I saw a while back
That I really wish I remember where it was or what the name was
But the theme was basically 'Stone Age Marines'
quaint compass
Think it might be a minotaur's shield
Got a similar piece in my "Random Beastman Bits" box
pastel rampart
Got my mystery box of 3-for-$15 tanks in.
soft willow
Sure looks like 3 tanks for 15 dollars.
pastel rampart
Free shipping so, y'know, honestly not a bad deal.
Now can I use these for anything? Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
pastel rampart
They're each about 5" long, 2-2.5" wide, not quite 1.5" tall for the two identical ones and 1.5" tall for the other one.
Which...they're about Hellhound in length but not in width or height.
soft willow
Yeah that’s too short for any imperial vehicle basically
pastel rampart
Yeah.
Which, given I (theoretically) play OPR, shit don't matter to me that much. But I got a Blood Angels army for that on the backburner.
If nothing else I can give'em to my friend to orkify for their army.
They'd make good wartrakks with some effort.
soft willow
Anything is an ork vehicle if you have enough bits and gumption
pastel rampart
Exactly.
west zealot
My understanding is that in general the mechanicus are not subject to imperial l...
I know that supposedly with inquisitors it's "we ain't got the political capital for that" even though nominally inquisitors can come from AdMech ranks & all three big branches have a reason to keep an eye on heretek
upper canopy
Inqusitors technically have authority over the Mechanicus since they're second only to the Emperor
in practice this doesn't mean jackshit
west zealot
Is the inquisitior friends with the local forge Lord, and do they agree on the inquisitiors take?
charred bridge
Inquistors have no authority over any ad mech. Mechanicus is outside of the imperium as Mars is an independent state except for fabricator general who has a seat on high lords of terra. They play with imperium for the benefits of upholding the pact between old ad mechs and emperor as a word from the Omnissiah. They cant pull rank on any tech priest, just pull out a bigger bolter or the promise of an STC and hope they listen
west zealot
If this seems a very disfunctional system then welcome to Warhammer, please sign forms j56-71, alpha-332 (pages 1-1000, not including any pages ending in a 9) and i7-admittanceofguilt
charred bridge
Time for yet another organization outside the lex imperialis
west zealot
From the Inquisition codex:
"
Just as the Ordo Hereticus pay close attention to the Ecclesiarchy, the Ordo Machinum scrutinise the Adeptus Mechanicus. Specifically, they are concerned with the reintegration of recovered STC variants into the Imperium’s armies and the rare adoptions of alien technologies into established Mechanicum protocols. The purpose here is twofold. Firstly, the Ordo Machinum ensure that laxness on the part of the Omnissiah’s worshippers does not permit a flawed technology to enter the Emperor’s service. More importantly, the Ordo Machinum ensures that no Magos is tempted to withhold vital systems from other factions of the Adeptus Terra with a view to increasing the Adeptus Mechanicus’ power within the Imperium.
Inquisitors of the Ordo Machinum often accompany Adeptus Mechanicus archaeological teams to distant worlds, the better to see for themselves exactly what has been recovered. They often work in concert with the Ordo Xenos – especially when the world in question has been under alien control or there is any suggestion of non-human origin for the technology the Adeptus Mechanicus seek to recover."
But in practice, it's really going to come down to real politik. The fact that the AdMech often define what tech is heretical is another wrinkle
charred bridge
But in practice, it's really going to come down to real politik. The fact that t...
Basically
brittle salmon
Inquistors have no authority over any ad mech. Mechanicus is outside of the impe...
That's true in theory but not so much in practice - the Inquisition can still levy severe penalties against a Forge World, and the AdMech don't have the security blanket that, say, being a First Founding Chapter has. They have to at least somewhat play ball
meager quail
charred bridge
That's id say that's the bigger bolter, none of the organizations can really take on the full might of the imperium if they went rogue. You convince Terra they're unsalvageably heretical and they're goners
Or some action that really pushes something to change
west zealot
AdMech is also the same force who will go me "me? Invent something?! How dare you, I reverse engineered this from historical documents!" While quickly shoving the "xenos research and development" box into the closest
Also it's a big galaxy. You can probably find forge worlds where the arbites are well integrated and have a big role
And forge worlds where the arbites loose any reports about them, because the last ten arbites who went there haven't been seen since
upper canopy
Really the Realpolitik in the Imperium is just how easy it is to kill the other person
Which is why First Founding Chapters shouldn't have that much clout
west zealot
Really the Realpolitik in the Imperium is just how easy it is to kill the other ...
And get no blowback on it* is the important caveat
upper canopy
*and also be able to murder the blowback
charred bridge
AdMech is also the same force who will go me "me? Invent something?! How dare yo...
Cawl, where's this STC for this thing we've never seen
upper canopy
"Up your [ASS]"
charred bridge
This is why you're not the fabricator general
west zealot
I mean Cawl has been incredibly clear he does not want to be
Cawl Inferior, who is absolutely not an AI clone of Cawl, however
charred bridge
Love the cawl totally not abomitable intelligence tried to tell Gulliman to make him fabricator general, not cawl but smol cawl
west zealot
(Cawl both hates the idea of being in the political position, but also recognizes that it's a dog shit idea politically, and would do great damage. Which is one reason I really like him as a character)
He's an irreverent troll and rascal, but he actually cares
Admittedly "I have cloned/rebuilt my friend 89 times!" Might be caring too much
bright dove
Which is why First Founding Chapters shouldn't have that much clout
The clout is stored in the gene-seed.
charred bridge
Cawl is kind of like the only ad mech that follow the OG ad mech beliefs from when Mars made the agreement with the emps on account of him being super ancient, sans some memory storage wipes
Also weirdness of soul merging
west zealot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RuNkImgMkyo
Historical footage
"The cogitator was an old-fashioned affair, but Tekoa’s invocation of the Litany of Activation, his burning of the sacred incense, and his administration of the ritual blow to its side, appeared to appease the machine-spirit, and it flickered into life readily enough"
I enjoy that "just hit it" has become part of the mystical rituals
finite compass
You know what my favorite style of Ork vehicle is?
Orks looting non-Imperial tech
humble plover
Were vespids and aquilons the only new teams introduced at the start of KT24 ?