and thats hell to play against with a newbie because their slow
#Warhammer and Such
past sphinx
thin ibex
The player you mean? Or the units?
desert jay
Creations of Bile is a funny detach because there’s a sliding scale of playstyle between “slot machine melee army” and “shooty army that just takes the reliable +1 to hit”
past sphinx
The player you mean? Or the units?
yes.
pastel rampart
still warren
Not Warhammer but posting here for the old hammer paint scheme https://www.reddit.com/r/TrenchCrusade/comments/1j80f5e/olde_school_tank_hunter/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
pastel rampart
Oh that fucks
pale narwhal
that fucks immensely
man, I need to get into trench crusade (sadly I missed out on the kickstarter)
runic swallow
The minis are now for sale just so you know
sour sequoia
I dont think I’ve seen anybody get the physical models from KS yet
Its all folks printing the STLs which are up
pale narwhal
the thing I'm lamenting is the physical book tbh
the minis being for sale now is excellent news though
still warren
I'm just here for more lore, the campaign supplement for the carrion front looks very cool plus the next few factions coming
The new stuff about the Synod of strategic prophecy is so good
peak olive
So wait
Do thousand sons have a codex? Cuz some armies have a codex and some have only datacards
floral herald
They only have an index currently
uneven ember
sour sequoia
Do thousand sons have a codex? Cuz some armies have a codex and some have only d...
In a first for GW ever they updated universally to 10th but it means only one detachment until a codex release
peak olive
Damn
floral herald
They do have 2 now with the grotmas detachment
sour sequoia
They got 52% WR, its doing just fine
The biggest deal is just that the current structure of the army rule means your lists get a little rigid
pastel rampart
As befitting an army of walking tin cans.
sour sequoia
I can’t really imagine picking the chapter of Ahriman and Magnus The Red and going ‘what do you mean I have to take the dope as hell sorcerers’ tho so it works out usually I think
pastel rampart
There was a brief but glorious time back in the 3.5 codex where picking Thousand Sons for an army meant having a unit of Chosen flying around on Discs of Tzeentch and turning models into chaos spawn with auto-cast spells.
runic swallow
Your or enemy models?
Also, I kinda miss the whole thing of chaos characters rolling on a chart after killing another character to see what boon they get, with the potential to be blorped into a chaos spawn or become a demon prince
Though, a random CSM Sargent becoming a chaos spawn was often a bit of an upgrade
desert jay
I can’t really imagine picking the chapter of Ahriman and Magnus The Red and goi...
The issue isn't so much "having to take sorcerors" so much as "having to (near) maximize sorcerors"
sour sequoia
Gotcha. I admit to not understanding the finer mechanics of em
The one time I faced em was one of the best players in my state on round 3 of a tourney I’d had 90 minutes of sleep for
desert jay
I mean the main thrust is "more sorcerors = more cabal points = more things you can do"
pulsar cairn
Are you allowed to use kitbashed chaos primaris as normal chaos marines in the tabletop?
Neat
jaunty dawn
west zealot
Wow. looking up the commentary on the 2nd episode of the tithes... people are insane at how much they hate female custodes. (Who are, for the record, awesome)
Also i guess you can't make an episode without uh, fire?
uneven ember
Wow. looking up the commentary on the 2nd episode of the tithes... people are *i...
Yeah they got so mad it ruled
rocky harness
I get the point of tithes was to show just how wastfull and cruel the imperium can be, but wow, that custodes may have just single handly driven an entire chapter to go renegade for no other purpose than pride?
uneven ember
Mad to the point that a bunch of the worst 40K internet personalities tried to glom onto Trench Crusade and got told to go fuck themselves, which also ruled
floral herald
I don’t really wanna drag in twitter discourse on 40K cause it’s so miserable but
floral herald
I get the point of tithes was to show just how wastfull and cruel the imperium c...
It’s not a matter of pride, it’s the Imperium’s war plan for starving the tyranids in the way into segmentum solar
Tyrith is just the messenger for, Guilliman probably
I forget if he’s still off on the other side of the galaxy while the Horse Guy defends segmentum solar or not
raw vessel
Petty infighting turning into open warfare is as 40k as it gets really.
rocky harness
It's the way she did it is where the pride comes in. Openly disrespecting the chapter master, demanding they break thier oaths. And giving no other reason than " I am the voice of the Empiror!" Even the SOS looked shocked at it.
floral herald
I mean that’s all just trivially true, she’s acting with the voice of the emperor and ordering them to forsake their oaths so the planet can be turned into a firebreak
rocky harness
Well, chapters have turned for less, so who knows. With Guiliman back the complaint department may be re opened.
thin ibex
I think the other point, and the open disdain she has for the Marines, comes from the last time marines turned and burned the galaxy.
Custodes still largely hold that against space marines in general
Big E always speaks with total authority n all that
west zealot
She actively calls out that Space Marine PRide made the galaxy burn
In conclusdion, the actual good guys of this epose with the Tyranids, who just wanted a nice snack.
Some lunchables.
a bit of red in the diet.
Vote Tyrannid for a better, hungrier galaxy.
fast lotus
In conclusdion, the actual good guys of this epose with the Tyranids, who just w...
Always have been 🧑🚀🔫👨🚀
west zealot
I now have the mental image of a Genestelaer cult who's whole thing is earnestly trying to encoruage people to vbote democractially for the Tyrnnaid swarm.
Just the worst cult.
"we just wanted some reasoned debate"! Cut to being chased by inquistors and space marines
pastel rampart
Your or enemy models?
Enemy models.
For a 2,000pts game you could have 20 disc-riding sorcerer Chosen for only 1,570pts.
uneven ember
I now have the mental image of a Genestelaer cult who's whole thing is earnestly...
"As all members of the Brotherhood of the Celestial Serpent share the singular consciousness of the Broodmind the court rules they get only one vote'"
west zealot
Cult members, in unison: awwww, shucks
Broodmind looking extra sad in the background, and being patted by a magus
Side note, as a joke sometime I want to do orcs who've looted a carnifex.
The hivemind has just thrown up it's hands, seconded a lictor to keep out of sight and watch the orcs, because ?????? Are they doing, this is hilarious to it
The carnifex may or may not realize it's been looted on account of being a carnifex
(presumably, it doesn't starve to death because the orks are like "We fed it, course!"
uneven ember
I have had the thought of a setting where the local GSC is operating openly, including the fact that the endgame is everyone getting eaten by space bugs, but that's a long term thing so most people don't really sweat it
The intended joke is how some of my nice neighbors are theoretically really looking forward to the day the world ends and I face damnation as a nonbeliever but I feel like it comes across more "damn you diversity"
west zealot
Possibly yeah.
I did have a fun idea for a story of an inquudtor hunting down a grnestealer cult while dealing with an orc waagh, everything's pointing to the waagh having been coopted by the grnestealers....
And the twist being it's the other way around, an incredibly powerful weridboy has brainjacked the Patriarch.
thin ibex
orks being the big 2nd act villain reveal would be wild
instead of always being a smokescreen for chaos
pulsar cairn
give me chaos as smokescreen for orks
thin ibex
cultist uprising orchestrated by a freeboota
paper bluff
(sound on) https://bsky.app/profile/bitshammer.bsky.social/post/3lk2whxrfjk23
I have theorized that techno music would be electo-hymns to the Admech
A mission i thought to send a 40k ttrpg party on would be to "to recover the ancient electro-hymns of the Scribe Lex"
sour sequoia
Proto-Saint Kraft of Werkholm
paper bluff
I mean that’s all just trivially true, she’s acting with the voice of the empero...
She is fully in her right to do so also. She also has a knife that she can legally kill anyone (emperor aside but I don't think the custodes actually could) in the imperium with
uneven ember
She is fully in her right to do so also. She also has a knife that she can legal...
yes but
part of the fun of 40K is that you have enough people with absolute authority whose absolute authority can (and regularly does) clash with someone else's absolute authority that it causes Problems
which is of course because the lore/fluff of 40K is fundamentally a series of answers for "why are these expensive army men so very cross with one another"
even people who do have the legal right, theoretically, to give orders to Chapter Masters (eg, Inquisitors) will, if they're smart, make requests instead
solemn gull
In one of the inquisitor books a interrogator tries to order around a train conductor and flashes his rosette but the conductor just tells him no and threatens to kick him off because the past 5 generations of their family have driven that train and she’d be damned if she had to change the route.
I just think that’s really funny
uneven ember
which book is that?
runic swallow
A mission i thought to send a 40k ttrpg party on would be to "to recover the anc...
Rediscover the Holy Electro-Hymns of the twin scribes “Foolish Miscreant”
finite compass
In one of the inquisitor books a interrogator tries to order around a train cond...
There's also the Rogue Trader excuse for why you have an Inquisitorial Interrogator as basically a party member and flunky
Yes, he technically does have authority over you. However, you are in the ass-end of space, and you're the one with the ship and the heavily-armed crew.
paper bluff
The warrent of trade vs inquisitor rosette authority gets murky. If you have a warrant signed by big E himself though, it's not a get out for free card of your leeway is pretty far
uneven ember
yeah but also "I have a voidship and crew, you have a piece of jewelry" carries a certain authority in its own right
paper bluff
The good ole "do not quote laws at we who have swords" rule
uneven ember
I feel like the people of the IoM assume that the SPESS MAHREENES are (from their perspective) almost supernaturally effective because of all the augments and power armor but the real Astartes superpower is operational independence.
pulsar cairn
I wish we saw more beakies with traitor marines
Pretty cool how emperor's children got some
pastel rampart
Raptors should have beakie helmets but like, fucked up ones.
Opens up like a bird's beak but the inside is lined with teeth.
pulsar cairn
True
uneven ember
past sphinx
Raptors should have beakie helmets but like, fucked up ones.
i really wish the screaming heads had turned up in heresy or the new kit
such a good design
solemn gull
those are so cool
pastel rampart
past sphinx
im really unsure what happened with the raptors/talons kit
pastel rampart
Or the really old ones.
past sphinx
oh those are some solidly fucked lads
pastel rampart
Yeah. And also like, probably the only reasonably-balanced-on-base ones.
solemn gull
also old enough to drink
past sphinx
i own a squad of 3rd edition boys and boy that was not kind
the warp talon heads do make good chosen tho
and they have a cool power sword
pulsar cairn
Big sword
uneven ember
angry face sword
thin ibex
Something I'm curious about. Grav tech for primaris sm doesn't allow actual flight, the bigger vehicles hover at pretty much ground level. The repulsor still flattens things beneath it. Is the tech really better than treads?
uneven ember
it lets you move over obstacles, right?
that's usually been the big benefit of grav vehicles
past sphinx
"we made grav tanks but they have all the problems of normal tanks plus a few more"
and their harder to repair!
and more resource instensive than a track
uneven ember
that does sound like something they'd do
past sphinx
cawl is the perfect tech priest, comes in, does tech heresy and makes everything twice as complicated to build
uneven ember
https://cbsky.app/profile/opensketchbook.bsky.social/post/3lk4zhngkfs2w
dig the CSM-style extendy vents thing on the backpack
feel like it fits the old style while keeping the Reaver feel
strong owl
yeah. and it makes it very clear how i feel about the Atrocity Marines lol
khorne berzerker who took a shower lookin' dude
uneven ember
legit
paper bluff
Raptors should have beakie helmets but like, fucked up ones.
The thousand sons did get a cool beakie helmet
past sphinx
The thousand sons did get a cool beakie helmet
thats the goofiest fucking thing give me 12
pulsar cairn
what if we have jack and the beanstalk but ork version
instead of going to sell their family cow they sell their squig
thin ibex
magic teef?
pulsar cairn
and it opens a warp rift or something
uneven ember
The thousand sons did get a cool beakie helmet
skeskis-looking mf
upper bluff
I love beaky helmets so so so so much
upper bluff
Like I could never see them on the "tacticool" primaris
but everything else its so good
past sphinx
throw em on incursors and they'd be mint
paper bluff
faint galleon
dang i like those
pulsar cairn
those are good
that's exactly what i want
the traitors are supposed to have cool and old stuff 
paper bluff
The HH helms are pretty cool
The salamanders and
The alpha legion ones are so good IMO
past sphinx
the only ones i really dislike are the NL's
space wolves and WE got some real slick ones tho
pulsar cairn
Night lords could have been a bit better yeah...
past sphinx
thankfully we already have redwardens peak designs
wintry mist
noticed that I am not recognising the marines on the mk3 tactical squad boxart
Alpha Legion?
pastel rampart
Sons of Horus, though you could make a case that any marine on a box is actually Alpha Legion.
solemn gull
Black legion before Horus died
wintry mist
yee
thin ibex
If one wants to make a black legion theme list, you'd pretty much bring all the classics right?
Kinda feel like doing an "iconic" for each traitor legion, obviously using their own factions when applicable
floral herald
If one wants to make a black legion theme list, you'd pretty much bring all the...
The black legion “hat” historically is Terminators and Chosen
Elite units basically
Though legionary manspam also makes sense for them
thin ibex
Obviously I'd bring abby
Would it make sense for them to play around a deathstar rules wise?
sour sequoia
Got baby's first crusade game in today, 1k Necrons vs 1k Thousand Sons.
I do not like a bajillion AP4 flamers
He really did not like Awakened Dynasty's ability to sit on midline objectives with 40 OC of warriors and never die
13-9 lets go necrons
sour sequoia
20 warriors with the reapers, res orb on a translocation shroud overlord, plasmancer - i walk up and take point, clap a unit of rubrics. Second unit of rubrics got it to half, I crack res orb and the strat, I delete a unit of rubrics.
One rubric unit left and he decided I could have centerfield
mental birch
Honestly best way to deal with it is either have some form of sus 2 shooting
Or like just ignore it ahhaa
brittle salmon
we call this a "gauss reaper sweep"
jaunty dawn
Lmao
desert jay
Acts of Faith gives dice on unit deaths again!
desert jay
Custodes with the new detach get to split up termies into 1-mans? Amazing
desert jay
Yeah I'm reading it, just get sustained hits 2 when shooting
jaunty dawn
Unleash the Lions!!!! (To probably just stand around doing objectives while the rest of the army kills stuff)
desert jay
Plus assualt during waaagh
brittle salmon
Yeah I'm reading it, just get sustained hits 2 when shooting
"just"
Extremely funny
desert jay
As in simply, no hoops to jump through
brittle salmon
Ah yeh
desert jay
"Long, Uncontrolled Bursts" is an amazing strat name
Ah, and Tau get a second battlesuit detachment (sorta)
desert jay
Theres a bunch of new detachments
Also a new Daemons detachment, hiding in the index
brittle salmon
Yeah that one is funny
brittle salmon
Also a new Daemons detachment, hiding in the index
Oh??
jaunty dawn
Ah
desert jay
"Shadow Legion", which is reverse soup
No daemon princes or epic heroes (except Belakor), but you can take certain CSM infantry
mental birch
Ah, and Tau get a *second* battlesuit detachment (sorta)
I wanna run 2x railgun broadsides
With em
Range 66 is a funny number
jaunty dawn
Its really funny how they can never decide if advance and charge is a slaanesh ability or a khorne one
desert jay
It's also kinda funny that Daemons are still an index but have six detachments already
jaunty dawn
And then the slaanesh strat is fight on death
When in pactbound zealots(?) its khorne
mental birch
Though might make plasma rifle crisisbteams viable with sustained and lethal
Hahahaa
Sustained with full rerolle
Hmmmm
jaunty dawn
Double uppy downy with a daemon and a marine unit
desert jay
It's also kinda funny that Daemons are still an index but have six detachments a...
This is 1 more than Sisters or Agents, and tied with AdMech, Custodes, GSC, Necrons, and Tau
desert jay
And a handful of Daemons sheets to legends? Is this a stealth not-codex drop?
brittle salmon
Yeah it's kinda weird
But hey
Cool detach
CSM retaining their army ability goes really hard actually
You get cost effective point holders with cultists and you can run power armour bricks into people at full efficiency
desert jay
Karanak, Tormentbringer on exalted seeker chariot, Seeker Chariot, Exalted Seeker Chariot, Hellflayer
brittle salmon
Rip Karanak :(
The rest are misc Slaanesh units which I'm not surprised about with the EC codex drop
desert jay
Yeah, and all four of them built from the seeker chariot kit
(You need two kits per exalted one)
Apparently there's also datasheet changes?? But I'd be damned if I was gonna to try comparing them
desert jay
Yeah no I'll leave that to the Goonhammer writeup
Good news! Already exists
https://www.goonhammer.com/index-chaos-daemons-10th-edition-2-0-the-goonhammer-review/
desert jay
They also have detachment focuses for the 4 new ones
Oh wow, WarCom article is up
And they're doing new detachments quarterly
jaunty dawn
Yup
As filled with gw bs as it has been, digital only rule releases is something ppl are clamouring for
So there is kinda a positive
cinder wraith
deft crest
Damn Karanak was made a legend? I could have sworn they did his model again recently
But maybe i'm just thinking about TW3 again 
thin ibex
oh its the borkan detachment for the tau
tired cairn
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/jl3uxdbu/index-chaos-daemons-...
Hmm, I guess that means no demons codex. But if they keep getting detachments and keep the index up to date that's not bad
rocky shale
Still no army rule for agents 
sour sequoia
Its a little funny to me I shotcalled the necron changes with perfect accuracy in the 5hr drive back from my tourney Sunday
Absolutely nothing and DDA goes up 10
floral herald
CSM change almost nothing haha
Pred Annihilator up 10
Forgefiend down 10 (?)
Discolord down 15
Which is nice
rocky shale
Aeldari changes feel surprisingly kind to ynnari
floral herald
Ynnari schnell moved outta the way of the nerfs haha
rocky shale
I think my aspect host list drops like 1 msu squad with all the point changes
And it's probably asurmen and his dire avengers because he took the nerf bat hard
thin ibex
razorshark or sunshark if you had to pick one?
im currently running a tigershark and its just too lorg for my liking
despite rocking two railguns
past sphinx
Discolord down 15
Disco could drop 50 and he'd still be trash 😦
mental birch
I have a dumb idea
For a map campaign
Okay so you know how useless airplanes are?
thin ibex
in the games ive run them, its less usell and more just not very good
ive had my tiger shark knock out quite a few units in a number of games
mental birch
Overcosted basically
mental birch
Idea is like in a map campaign, you create a air wing
thin ibex
im thinking of downgrading to either a sunshark or a razorshark to fit more other units into my list
mental birch
And like every campaign turn the air wing can deploy as free points to one battle
Or be split among several battles as 'free points' thst don't need to march
With armies
So while the overall OOB are same points the plane user trades points efficiency for the ability to gain local supremacy
By just saying, "surprise plane"
deft crest
I kept staring at the page in confusion for the updates until i realised it was formated in DAY/MONTH/YEAR
American problems 
thin ibex
despite being used to month day year, day month year just seems more sensible to me
mental birch
Does thst idea make sense for making planes not feel so cfap?
thin ibex
a lot depends on the campaign map movement rules n such, but i like it as an idea
tired cairn
Year/Month/Day is the superior time format (it sorts better)
valid brook
YYYYMMDD works best for data entry but I will always write out DDMMMYY for superior readability
sour sequoia
Okay so you know how useless airplanes are?
She doesn’t know about the Night Scythe bugatti
But nah actually an air wing as part of a crusade sounds sick as hell
I think you only end up with issues for like. Daemons or Votann?? Everybody else has flyers I think
floral herald
Might get a little awkward with factions with sorta good/ok planes and ones with just bad ones
Kill team also gets a balance slate!
This is pretty big
tired cairn
That is conceptually weird. Why did they do this?
floral herald
They’re pretty different mechanics and it’s hard to have both at once from the same terrain anyway
Makes some angles less good though
Basically this was added because there was a “sweet spot” 1.1 inches away from walls were you could get both
Since you were less than 1” away from the close side of the wall and more than 1” away from the far side
If you’re like “that’s dumb” that’s why they added this haha
jaunty dawn
Yeah
Obscuring is meant to be like
A lesser bonus between being untargetable and no bonus at all
pastel rampart
pulsar cairn
i would say the first guy is probably getting better results but language barrier
dense sedge
necromunda nomads are really cool
floral herald
If u don’t pick the bottom choice ur not a real emperor’s child and Slaanesh hates your lack of dedication to excess
unreal cosmos
FUSION BLADES
Oh seriously?
glad spear
I'll take it idgaf
thin ibex
str 12, 2 attacks, melta 4
fusion gun
coldstar commander gonna be out here rocking 3 fusion guns and 1 fusion blades
pulsar cairn
how does slaneesh punish followers who would enjoy weird torture?
pastel rampart
Denying them what they enjoy most.
pulsar cairn
thin ibex
In broad terms, slaanesh's flock prefers extremes, so inflicting some kind of mediocrity on them becomes torture
pulsar cairn
right 
i was thinking something like sensory deprivation 
but mediocrity also works i think
like if slaneesh stacks the odds against you everytime bringing failure after failure i could also see that being torture to one of its followers
pale narwhal
i was thinking something like sensory deprivation <:vicksyDerp:13241054535668203...
Some slaaneshi consider sensory deprivation to be its own extreme experience
floral herald
1000 subjective years in the bland salaryman dimension
You WILL file the paperwork
pulsar cairn
1000 subjective years in the bland salaryman dimension
i mean... couldnt slaneesh actually do something like that? curse you into a life of mediocrity? like chaos can warp reality and all sort of weird shit i dont see this as something impossible even if it is funny
paper bluff
Does thst idea make sense for making planes not feel so cfap?
I recommend having this stat block
paper bluff
how does slaneesh punish followers who would enjoy weird torture?
The space sharks have the answer and it's put them in the no sensations box
Mind you is was with a dark eldar but counts
pulsar cairn
paper bluff
The space sharks have the answer and it's put them in the no sensations box
Okay it was more the mildly unpleasant box with as bland food and spray with coldish water
sour sequoia
Lucius is literally tormented with boredom and slaanesh’s specialest boy handicaps
Every time he comes back with a new kill he knows he didn’t win on PURE SKILL
paper bluff
Then they strapped him to a table that looked out into the galactic void where there was nothing
Colin robison could beat a slaanshi cultists
tepid stratus
A lesser bonus between being untargetable and no bonus at all
Yet ironically obscuring is the stronger of the two
No Crits and dropping a successful hit is way better than auto passing a normal save
dense idol
honestly, I still do not understand the line of sight rules
at all
would it actually kill this company to use a silhouette one (1) time
pastel rampart
They sorta did back in 4th.
tepid stratus
Yeah I learned LoS the hard way at my first tournament. Went against wyrmblade who can pop back into concealed easily and had to learn the hard way that Volkus is full of nooks and crannies that a 25mm base can be partially behind that no other base size can get away with
So despite line of sight to 90% of the model, a fraction of the base being behind a pipe from any angle I could draw fucked me
Made his medic and icon bearer super difficult to remove
glad spear
I realized with the new Tau detachment, my storm surge could become more interesting
floral herald
would it actually kill this company to use a silhouette one (1) time
I don’t think it would help in kill team’s case at least
thin ibex
I realized with the new Tau detachment, my storm surge could become more interes...
how so? I suppose strat for sus or lethal is good, but technically you can get either in kauyon or montka
6 extra inches on big 12 damage gun tho
might be funny
pastel rampart
Funny thought while shopping this morning: "how would I orkify this"
jaunty dawn
I don’t think it would help in kill team’s case at least
Yeah kill team is complicated cause theres like three separate cover mechanics and sillhouettes would not fix that
Silhouettes would fix the shit caused by wildly variable poses and the ‘measure los from the head’ thing though
west zealot
1000 subjective years in the bland salaryman dimension
But it's just varied enough to avoid being monotonous. Really for most people, it'd be a great job. For a noise marine? It's the worst.
Ps: you are now imagining a bunch of noise marine in poorly fitted business suits, being shushed every time they try and talk
west zealot
Funny thought while shopping this morning: "how would I orkify this"
Take a dread knight model. Stick orky bits on it!
thin ibex
this feel on brand for a theme list for black legion?
pastel rampart
Take a dread knight model. Stick orky bits on it!
More or less what it'd be like, though this was considerably cheaper than a dreadknight ($18).
west zealot
Yeah, I was mostly making fun of the Dread knight there.
Honestly... Probably you'd want a nice power claw, and the other arm just being the most cobbled together sort of guns
Also, funny from God blight:
"My friend, I swear to you, if you tell me one more time that what I am doing is a great honour, I will grab the lip of your chestplate, haul myself up and punch you on the nose!’"
When you're angry at a space marine, expressing it may be difficult due to height differences
floral herald
this feel on brand for a theme list for black legion?
I think so yeah
Black Legion is pretty open ended but it’s got the general mix which feels pretty good I think
thin ibex
I figure the abby/terminator bomb in the land raider makes for a good central vibe too
glad spear
pale narwhal
finally broadsides have an ability
the new detachment is nice. another option for tau that works all game, plus also boosts big suits a bit (healing for riptide and ghostkeel, extra range for fusion blasters/fusion collider on GK and riptide)
if I had more crisis I'd probably run it
glad spear
30 inch focused pulse cannon 
A 6 BS 4+ S 12 AP -3 D 12
Any excuse to use my Stormsurge is a good excuse
pale narwhal
Honestly that’s fair
Stormsurges might actually be usable in the detachment
(Splitfire penalty sucks still though)
past sphinx
splitfire? a calcium deficient concept
why would you not simply level the ground the foe stands on
obliteration and ash
sour sequoia
I mean even in non-tau detachments/armies splitting fire has been a mistake every time I’ve tried lol
deft mason
sustained hits on literally every infantry unit is CRAZY
tardy vault
Just played and won my first 2k game
First time taking out Morathi. She got to turn 2 of round 3 which is quite nice if I say so.
Only one unit got fed into the Shadow Queen woodchipper
Reinforced unit of Prosecutors that didn't even make it past her first melee weapon
Ended up being decided by a redeploy roll in round 2 and some beautiful saves in round 4.
thin ibex
played against a newby doing champs of fenris, lots of terminators
but they let me keep range as tau
so i took them apart over time
strong owl
mental birch
Why not give railguns sus1 and lethal
brittle salmon
Other weapons benefit from the range increase more
And Sus1/Lethal is better the more shots you have
pulsar cairn
https://bsky.app/profile/opensketchbook.bsky.social/post/3lk7w3cp4pk2u
Is that a chaos marine painted as loyalist?
strong owl
it’s a reiver so basically lol
(it’s for my 1995 primaris army)
but like everything in that army i made it in blender
desert jay
Is that a chaos marine painted as loyalist?
Nah there's way less trim work going on
The power pack is def closer to modern CSM than the GW MkX stuff though
brittle salmon
pale narwhal
And Sus1/Lethal is better the more shots you have
Lethal is also anti synergistic with dev wounds
west zealot
More or less what it'd be like, though this was considerably cheaper than a drea...
https://old.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1implms/looted_wave_serpent/ Inspiration for your looted dreadknight
pulsar cairn
did they just make an eldar tank orky?
unreal cosmos
That's what the title says
thin ibex
Got a few more iconics, I'm not sure if I have word bearers or night lords quite right
past sphinx
iron warriors with no demon engines?
desert jay
I think you Word Bearers pretty spot on for theme
thin ibex
iron warriors with no demon engines?
I thought they were more into trusted machinery. Am I off the mark there?
Like vashtors whole thing was daemon engines
desert jay
Night Lords you might have overdone it with the jetpacks? But I forget how all in on those the detach encourages
past sphinx
I thought they were more into trusted machinery. Am I off the mark there?
They fuckin love demon engines, build em to
desert jay
Oh wait Nemesis Claw isn't jetpacks, okay maybe belay that complaint
past sphinx
terminators are a big part of NL's to
thin ibex
They fuckin love demon engines, build em to
Humm, ok, makes sense. I kinda felt the vindicator was like... iron warriors iconic
past sphinx
both atramentar and contekar
we have 2 special terminator boys, 2 legion warcrys and 1 dead primarch we really are gdubs best boys
pastel rampart
You can never go too hard on NL jetpacks.
thin ibex
for my DG iconic, i figured typhus and morty wouldnt be in the same army
cause they hate each other's guts
desert jay
terminators are a big part of NL's to
The space marine that doesn't love terminators has forgotten the face of his father
desert jay
You and most WE players wish they had Red Butchers
thin ibex
reword Iron Warriors iconic
just swapped in some daemon engines and gave the termies more power fists
thin ibex
mild bit of amusement, a lot of units have the cool or good choice. Riptide, redemptor, brutalis, forgefiend. Usually "cool choice" is some kind gatling gun, and the good choice is some kind of plasma too
though on the brutalis its getting two heavy mg's or meltas
paper bluff
I've been thinking about skaven and wonder
Are the skaven themselves the GHR minor demons?
sour sequoia
GHR doesn’t seem to roll like that as far as I know
Skaven are fully biotic and will mate + have young and whatnot afaik
But they’re also the result of a curse they weren’t some beastman clan or something off in the hinterlands that uncovered Rat God
IIRC in fantasy like the demons are still 100% definitely demons Made Of Magic and they won’t really eat or sleep or have biologic functions unless its Slaanesh doing Slaanesh things?
past sphinx
mild bit of amusement, a lot of units have the cool or good choice. Riptide, red...
forgefiend has the power of ectocooler with one option, gatling never stood a chance
thin ibex
brrrt is cool tho!
sour sequoia
The brrrrt can be good but it depends how much hit/wound/ap modification you can get
thin ibex
its mostly not good because of saturation of SM saves and mutli wounds in the competetive scene
it works great in its niche
sour sequoia
Necrons tend to lean brrrrt because you’ll end up with full hit/wound rerolls and szeras
So even into marines and termies teslas pick up more than gauss
thin ibex
and for tau its that you dont have too many units who can rock big multi damage, so taking brrt on one is a big opportunity cost
the heavy burst cannon is good, but the big ion is unique
sour sequoia
That makes sense
I actually never played into tau until just this weekend
Was very funny playing gunline canoptek necrons into the uhhhh kauyon?
The round 1-3 assault one
floral herald
The forgefiend gatlings are pretty good but
Plascannons are otherwise something you cannot get haha
thin ibex
dem ectoplasma volleys just do be hittin
thin ibex
Was very funny playing gunline canoptek necrons into the uhhhh kauyon?
montka
sour sequoia
Thankfully ectoplasma is cool
floral herald
And good multishot shooting is easier to get (venomcrawler and such)
sour sequoia
Forgefiends ontologically dope
thin ibex
on the redemptor its kinda a similar situation where the onslaught isnt bad perse, but the plasma goes into more things
its got no AP so its really meant to thin hordes
and you could just take a reaper lancer to really bully hordes
floral herald
I’m trying to decide if I want to build mine as a BL forgefiend or an EC maulerfiend
thin ibex
and on the brutalis, the multimeltas are potent enough to make the HBs seem worse
though personally I like the HB's as the general purpose pick
past sphinx
the tragedy is that the gatels are just autocannons and chaos autocannons are just fucking awful
thin ibex
trying to think of anything else that has the cool/good dichotomy
this ones controversial but the gauss flux arcs on the monolith vs the death rays
past sphinx
ion cannons vs railguns
thin ibex
i do love me some railguns
look we tau dont need them votann tech that we ahem improved
past sphinx
scouts with shotguns or rifles
thin ibex
another controversial one, because lascannons are cool, but predator autocannons vs twin linked las
past sphinx
oof thats the trouble because preds are almost always better as tank hunters
thin ibex
exactly, the good pick is las, but i love the cachunka cachunka of the auto
past sphinx
demois autocannon is a handsome version tho
thin ibex
silly one, but any choice on the heavy weapons team that isn't a lascannon or a mortar for the guard
past sphinx
the heavy flamer heavy weapon team for kreig is something id go out of my way for
thin ibex
(I like me my missile launchers and autocannons xD)
im a sucker for "this thing has two modes, so it can be bad at two things!"
past sphinx
i stand by missile launchers
thin ibex
Oh this one isnt controversial but just speaks to an issue in design. Zzap gun vs Kannon
I so very much want to like the zzap gun
but it has so few redeeming qualities
sour sequoia
Flayers vs reapers maaaaybe given its the most iconic necron gun
But its just so fucking bad rn lol
thin ibex
oh thats one im not familiar with
what makes em so bad?
i still build my neccy lists with flayers xD
sour sequoia
Basically just that they don’t do anything
24” str 4 ap0 d1 on warrior statline is not much
thin ibex
bs 4?
sour sequoia
Rapid fire is neat! But reapers shoot 2 at the same range band anyways and get an AP
Yeah, bs4
Fire warriors have good BS and the extra range
Every other battleline shit gun troop has Something, Necrons are mostly just OC2 T5 and rez gud
thin ibex
actually fire warriros only shoot at BS4 unless they get spotted for, they just shoot at S5 inherently
and have a suppressive unit rule
oh shit, when did warriors go up to T5?
ages ago prolly
sour sequoia
No, scratch that lol I forgot they aint even T5
thin ibex
xD
sour sequoia
I’m so used to running only immortals
Warriors/flayed ones/crypteks are the only ones that are below T5
20 warriors absolutely dies like dogs on objectives and they’re still slow as fuck, you have to do the full investment brick to make em truly last—and then they’re still slow cuz they’re only worth in 20, and the transport following them only fits 10 lmaooo
So it ends up being Orikan, overlord or a warden, reanimator, ghost ark—and when your sole goal is to die on point and remain forever, 12” gun with AP once again better
thin ibex
heavy bolters vs plasma on leman russ sponsons
almost because they are an option they become an obligation
past sphinx
plasma in the turret bolters on the side as god intended
thin ibex
a bit funny, excecutioner is never good as your only leman, but can make a real good one two puncher
past sphinx
just good enough to take just bad enough to always fail you
lacking the keywords from 30k is just painful
thin ibex
one of my friends just getting in wanted a catachan theme list
and effectively its hte guard going "sisters of battle eat your heart out, we dont want to roll to hit"
thin ibex
they pay a high premium for not having to roll to hit
noninteractivity being its own buff
im kinda surprised they never made the other side of it
hits that dont need to wound. I guess lethal hits is that
but not quite as absolute as torrent
past sphinx
i think at the point changing torrent just makes it not a flamer anymore
its been 30 odd years
soft willow
Was it? It made them a lot of money, I can see why they want to make more of it.
thin ibex
well not too fast tbh, dev time still gonna be years hence
they probably actually started pretty close to 2 releasing
soft willow
If they tell me it's done next year then I'll have them brought up before the Ordo Chronos yeah.
But figure it takes them four or five years to make and polish this.
While still putting out the occasional DLC/update for SMII
uneven ember
Was it? It made them a lot of money, I can see why they want to make more of it.
I mean there were eleven years between 1 and 2 so comparatively
paper bluff
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/glahjvsr/space-marine-3-is-of...
Let me punch that chaplain
desert jay
If they tell me it's done next year then I'll have them brought up before the Or...
Plausible if they started the groundwork before SM2 release and don’t have big engine changes, but still a hard deadline
past sphinx
spacemarine 2 basically tripled the amount of people in the local warhammer store
it was a landmark situation for GW probably
they finally made a good videogame
and it actually made it past the usual barriers to entry and got people into a store
paper bluff
I hope they're not all playing space marines
floral herald
I hope they're not all playing space marines
I wouldn’t hold out much hope that the Space Marine series does that - wait I see what you mean
paper bluff
Yeah I was talking about the table top
uneven ember
I hope they're not all playing space marines
I mean it's 40K "most of them are playing space marines" is kind of a given
rocky shale
I’m trying to decide if I want to build mine as a BL forgefiend or an EC maulerf...
Magnetize the paint the maulerfiend parts pink
floral herald
Magnetizing this model kinda sucks though
Since I gotta magnetize down load bearing parts
rocky shale
I've seen a video of it done, it's not great but not impossuble
It does hurt posing though
thin ibex
Go even deeper beyond, go plus ultra. 3d print connecting mechanisms. Turn it into an action figure with swappable parts
rocky shale
Important lore question. If Aeldari choose different paths to focus on throughout thier lives, does that mean there could be an Aeldari on the path of the Podcaster, and if they were lost on that path would they be like elf Joe Rogan?
paper bluff
Only a dark eldar would seek to cause that much suffering
sour sequoia
Maugan Ra take the shot
soft willow
Important lore question. If Aeldari choose different paths to focus on throughou...
A former Ranger who picked up a new path is now the alt-craftworld-park-service.
rocky shale
Only a dark eldar would seek to cause that much suffering
Deldar definitely have podcasts, zero question
pulsar cairn
What about the weird vox people?
paper bluff
Weird vox people?
quaint compass
vox is 40k radios
upper canopy
no I don't who is he
thin ibex
international boy of mystery
pulsar cairn
no I don't who is he
thin ibex
<:vicksyGun:1302709474930196510>
pastel rampart
quaint compass
Just a FYI, X/Twitter links are banned 'ere
Pilot.net ain't the biggest fan of that there Elon guy
desert jay
Threnodic Choir here for the Talons of the Emperor auditions
floral herald
Not a ton of lore on any of em but apparently they’re known to destabilizing tectonic plates with their jams sonic weapons
jaunty dawn
White one fucks
paper bluff
Shame about white being a pain to paint
pastel rampart
Way less of a pain nowadays, thankfully.
Also love the gold one, personally. Reminds me to try out these bottles of Rose Gold paint I have kicking around.
desert jay
Titanium white rules as a pigment
pastel rampart
Yeah.
But even outside of airbrushing there's just a lot of good white paint out there now, with good coverage. Contrast paints help give them some depth too, and of course oil washes becoming more common has made shading and recess coloring really easy.
White used to be the worst because any bottle of it fucking sucked ass. Now? You're spoiled for choices.
desert jay
It's funny that lead white used to be "well, it's toxic but it's a really good white so we'll deal, we're used to toxic pigments" and then titanium white shows up and it's even whiter and also bioinert
brittle salmon
Anyone here play AoS Path to Glory? I'm doing a Slaves to Darkness army themed around Warriors of Chaos stuff, advice appreciated
Slaves to Darkness
Godswrath Warband
Auxiliaries: 0
Drops: 2
Arcane Tome - Spite Tongue Curse, Pyroclastic Repression
Emberstone Vault -
Regiment 1
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (160)
Chaos Warriors (200)
• 1x Champion
• 1x Musician
• 1x Standard Bearer
Chaos Knights (250)
• 1x Champion
• 1x Musician
• 1x Standard Bearer
Regiment 2
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (120)
Chaos Lord (100)
Chaos Chariot (80)
• Chaos Greatblade
Chaos Chariot (80)
• Chaos Greatblade
Created with New Recruit
Data Version: v11```I like that white one
past sphinx
Bit of a swing but anybody around the virginia coast, I move Sunday and would like to find a game once things get unloaded
pulsar cairn
Lord invocatus can fly right?
jaunty dawn
lord invocatus is world eater Santa Claus??
zinc field
Bit of a swing but anybody around the virginia coast, I move Sunday and would li...
Hampton Roads area by any chance?
past sphinx
Hampton Roads area by any chance?
HA ill be basically right up the road
zinc field
I'm going to be busy all of sunday unfortunately
past sphinx
well ill be driving for 2 days either way sunday
floral herald
Maybe another day I'm a little far and have been bad about assembling stuf which isn't kill teams haha
zinc field
but tower of games and world's best comics both have pretty active groups
past sphinx
thnx
paper bluff
Lord invocatus can fly right?
Technically no. In lore it's like a rainbow road sort of thing
paper bluff
Basically yes but of a bloody path
paper bluff
He's also more into the honorable combat part of khorne than a lot of World eaters iirc
pulsar cairn
I like that 
tardy vault
So, someone just walked in with a Thunderhawk and can I say: holy shit that thing is massive
solemn gull
I really liked the environment descriptions of that book
deft crest
Kill team players,
I might need to fight against someone with a patriarch
What kinda team kills those quick
solemn gull
Melta guns
I can’t remember which team has the most of them atm
But they are just about the only way I’ve managed to take one out
deft crest
I dont know if Clowns would be good into them or if Angels of Death would do ok. I'm HOPING i don't see a fuckin patriarch and I can just have fun with my DK team, But I don't look forward to what, 20 wounds?
storm schooner
the bigger the gun the more likely it'll kill the patriarch, You could also choose to ignore it and just focus on killing the squishier Nids
floral herald
The patriarch has a lot of wounds but isn’t super tough
21 W 4+ save
The thing which makes it scary is having 2 activations to JFJ around shadows
deft crest
I hate that it ignores Piercing...
-# Wait what? What do you mean my clowns have that rule? 
jaunty dawn
yeah
tough doesn't mean unkillable in kill team
just means inefficient to kill
and difficult to kill in a one swing piece trade
jagged dawn
Taking a longer break from gaunt’s ghosts (we’re about halfway through straight silver and somewhat losing steam)
Time to crack open the Ciaphas Cain novels
past sphinx
Finally, the good books about the imperial guard. /s
runic swallow
Video that might interest y’all from a channel I’ve been watching for a long while now: https://youtu.be/KBYhsVVuL14
They usually do historical wargaming videos that are really well done, id recommend giving them a look
pastel rampart
Warmaster always seemed kinda cool but 10mm scale is a hard thing to sell to...anyone, really, so I'm not surprised it didn't do well.
I'd still love to have an army at that scale. I just don't know that I'd ever get anyone interested, haha.
paper bluff
You know, something about a thunder warrior chewing on a big cigar like Duke nukem makes perfect sense vibes wise
Also I think a thunder warrior and white scar could easily be friends and the white scar even see the nobility and joy in the thunder warrior
soft willow
Warmaster always seemed kinda cool but 10mm scale is a hard thing to sell to...a...
The issue at the time was more getting product than convincing people to buy it.
Plus the fact that GW had a pretty bad track record on abandoning specalist games back then.
pastel rampart
More an issue of the scale itself, since people seem to really prefer 28mm-32mm scale stuff in general.
It's kind of the most popular miniature scale, outside of Gunpla anyway (which is a whole different sphere entirely).
I think the only reason Flames of War took off is because it came out at just the right time to catapult off a popular renewal of WW2, whereas most games at that scale kind of struggle to get even half that playerbase.
thin ibex
Also I think a thunder warrior and white scar could easily be friends and the wh...
I think it could go either way tbh, Either seeing honor and kinship or seeing them as the wrong kind of warrior. Depends on the white scar
solemn gull
I wish we got a few more thunder warrior characters during the unification war or maybe the Horus heresy. Shame that apparently all of them except for 2 are dead unless they plan to rewrite their retirement.
tardy vault
Sounds like suffering
rocky shale
Drybrush eyeliner...
west zealot
Time to crack open the Ciaphas Cain novels
I recently binged through all of them. They're pretty fun! Not deep literalture, b ut nicely breezy, and nice to have some novels that manage Grimdark without Grimderp.
Cain's hilarious running thing of 'And htis is why you be nice to the Guard so you don't die heorically several miles behind the frfont lines" is also a good bit
runic swallow
Warmaster always seemed kinda cool but 10mm scale is a hard thing to sell to...a...
Yes but also no, it’s very popular in larger scale historical wargaming
It’s probably correct that it’s a harder sell for 40k players, but it’s table stakes for a lot of historical players
pastel rampart
I'm considering the average miniature gamer here, mind, which is overwhelmingly dominated by the aforementioned 28-32mm scale stuff. 15mm and under has some overlap with this crowd but it's fairly distinct--historicals are mostly a whole different scene.
runic swallow
Yeah, I guess
past sphinx
https://www.vxreddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/4rwzM2OceH
You can't call me out like this
You might as well cut off the 8 to 15mm wargame dudes from everything else, while different set of dudes
runic swallow
As a guy into both, this hurts me (kindly please don’t cut me in half)
sour sequoia
I met a guy on vacation in the middle of the british museum who was a historical 15mm wargame guy and we swapped painting tips a bunch, it sounds fun as hell but I can very honestly say I’ve never seen it west of the mississippi in this country
Like I’ve literally never ever seen it or heard of it
So I stick to the big wargames
runic swallow
As someone who has played a few large scale historical wargames, they’re a hell of a lot of fun and often pretty cheap to get into (especially with printers these days)
Usually it’s more of a game club thing and less pick up games, though you can also just do the classic “hey I’ve got two armies, wanna give it a try?”
Also I’d recommend looking at some of the games played by the guys on the channel I linked to start with, while they absolutely go all out on theirs and are obviously much bigger than your average game, it also shows how cool historical wargaming can be
thin ibex
My all kroot list is playing against my buddies Catachan theme list in tts. They're a Newby, but the casualties are mounting.
We saved top of round 3
I'm currently leading 36 to 15
But I think I'm gonna get tabled
crisp lance
junior robin
...oh ffs GW why did you have to go and make my genestealer cult army also unusable?! 
hybrids with hand flamers cant have mining weapons!
tired cairn
Huh, weird. I wonder why they split demolition charges and mining weapons between hand flamers and autopistols like that
junior robin
starting to think they got a personal grudge against me, this is at least the 5th army I can no longer use
6 if I count my giant rat skaven army, one of the few units they removed completely...
thin ibex
Well, can't use wysiwyg but you can totally still use them, right?
junior robin
like finding out that they even removed the option sort of killed the hype for the army and replaced it with a yearning for 3rd ed.
think the only good update they have managed to make is the the DG where they made it so you could use all special weapons in the box on a unit
floral herald
Oh man these are gross
Emperor’s Children also have the funniest crusade rules
Your main goals are to hurt people and make Weird Drugs
(Including the one I linked, which gives the bearer a 2+ invuln)
If I get a crusade game I gotta play these fools
Everyone else trying to make complicated strategic gains and meanwhile
lol
tired cairn
Do you start with ingredients? Or is everyone suffering from withdrawal in the first couple of battles?
pastel rampart
starting to think they got a personal grudge against me, this is at least the 5t...
whispers One Page Rules
pulsar cairn
@floral herald u happy with the codex? 
floral herald
There’s some weird choices but ultimately yeah
I like how there’s not a lot of “dead datasheets” and the army rule is dynamic
pulsar cairn
Nice!
jaunty dawn
40k question
do enhancements count against the points limit for 'ally' detachments
namely in questor forgebound
does the 35pt enhancement count against the 500 points you get in a 2000pt game
jaunty dawn
new recruit thinks it does but that might be like
an implementation thing
I guess checking the app is an option hmm
app says yes :(
but also has points update on new recruit so that's a thing
floral herald
Huh
jaunty dawn
really feels like I want more than one tech priest so less skitarii is the way I guess
dense idol
chat, i want you to resolve my choice paralysis
tomb ship complement for boarding patrol, do i run gauss flayers or gauss reapers on warriors
dense idol
and gauss blasters or tesla carbines for immortals
thin ibex
but a boarding patrol is all about like getting in close right?
the guass blasters are actually decent right?
dense idol
i thought to emphasize the close-range options too but now i'm second guessing myself
thin ibex
well having immortals who can cover long sight lines and making sure warriors are punchy and can push up doesnt seem bad
unless you want to play back and shoot
dense idol
blasters and carbines have the same range
the tradeoff is assault and sustained hits 2 versus -1 AP
thin ibex
in boardin patrol i feel like 1 ap might be well worth
and itll apply more consistently than sus
dense idol
i also have a plasmancer here who i was planning to spam battlefield command for 5+ crits on the immortals
thin ibex
blasters also get lethals right?
dense idol
blasters do have lethal hits, yes, and carbines don't
dense idol
if it factors into the equation at all, i expect to be facing off against space marine salamanders and t'au
(there are no mission setups i can find for three-way matches but i'm sure we'll figure something out)
solemn gull
*whispers* One Page Rules
warhammer players will play anything besides warhammer
sour sequoia
Honestly I’ll take playing anything besides warhammer lol
10th is in a wacky spot, AoS is in a wacky spot, Horus Heresy doesn’t exist, they came pretty close to taking Kill Team out back and shooting it with how elite squadrons worked out, other games don’t exist
Old World still isn’t a complete game
topaz hinge
OPR is a better-designed game
solemn gull
at least we still have bloodbowl
thin ibex
is 10th in a wacky spot?
i dont know that it is actually
i mean, perfectly valid to dislike it but like
i dont think its in a wacky spot perse
solemn gull
Dumbed down isn't the right word since it's gotten a lot more intricate in other aspects but it feels like it's lost a lot of what I consider 40k's feel rules wise.
Not a fan of having to look up 30 different key words that affect a weapon I'm using or the removal of psychic phase (I'm a T-sons player)
but I do think it's a much less bloated ruleset right now which is good
jaunty dawn
that's kinda hyperbolic considering one of the things I don't like about 10e is that every gun is only special in one of 3 ways lol
tardy vault
10th is in a wacky spot, AoS is in a wacky spot, Horus Heresy doesn’t exist, the...
AoS list building needs to be taken out behind the shed
It's in a real bad spot
thin ibex
I think there's a lot to be critical with for 10th, but its plenty fun, the rules work, its reasonably balanced, there are regular balance updates
and its a much more accessible to beginners i think
floral herald
Not having a psychic phase feels fine to me since the game didn’t have one when I started either but most psykers are just… not that exciting as well I feel
topaz hinge
The rules work once you check the five different places the rules are written in
thin ibex
warhammer was already like that
floral herald
I think only Eldar have really neat feeling ones
jaunty dawn
I think the exciting thing kinda goes for a lot of the army design
like the game is pretty awesome actually when you're playing csm xP
but it's a minority of factions that are that interesting
floral herald
Yeah CSM feel pretty good
sour sequoia
is 10th in a wacky spot?
A lot of 10th is sauceless, unless you're one of the Marines factions who count on getting everything the game assumes you should have, or Eldar, who have the first codex release where GW knew how to write for the edition they're in. Wargear costs going flat removes a lot of listbuilding stuff and turbocharges every imperium army while a lot of others just didn't deal with wargear so they lose power
thin ibex
sauceless is kind of a baseless statement
loses power compared to what exactly
last editions?
Last editions were less balanced
also less regularly balanced
games more commonly run the entire length of the match compared to the last two editions, and doesn't have the same issue with factions defining single type army builds that never get balanced against or changed
sour sequoia
"My name Leman Russ I have 5 good anti-tank guns (which ultimately are good vs everything) for 170pts"
"My name Necrons I have one casino cannon for 200"
"My name Tyranids I have no S10 guns in the entire army except Maleceptors and Tyrannofexes"
I thik there's something to be said for the vast flattening of special rules like Gauss into Lethal Hits or Sustained and then a lot of armies just missing like. antitank, or flamers, or sticky objectives, or how flattening fights first is or access to FNP
and then every power armor army is getting all of this
For being more frequently balanced, we're entering round 13 of consecutive Eldar nerfs and they're still clocking 58-60% WR?
sour sequoia
games more commonly run the entire length of the match compared to the last two ...
This I can agree on actually, I've had more satisfying 5 round games than any previous edition where a lot of metas always came out to "who alpha strikes harder and then we shake hands"
(I also can't really say previous editions are better than now for "marines get special toys" - GW has essentially always viewed it as a brand failure if space marines are not up near the top of factions)
floral herald
Space marines haven’t really ever been that strong in 10e
Except briefly during the indirect meta I guess
At least in terms of tournament stuff
I guess BT tank spam also happened whoops
sour sequoia
We're just coming off another round of "roboute guilliman is god" - that list was bog simple to run and clocking like 60% WR
No-Force-Org also heavily exaggerates when a unit is poorly costed
jaunty dawn
although I think part of the issue really with no wargear points is people like figuring out the optimal loadout
which is genuinely fair
thin ibex
to be fair, in the past, a round of roboute guilliman is god could last a year
or more
right now ironstorm is back to being pretty good iirc
floral herald
Space marines in general are ok rn and they have some decent lists but my main point is that being an army which has historically had lots of wargear choices is not correlated with doing well in 10e
jaunty dawn
having a lot of datasheets is more it
but like that's basically why eldar are usually good too
floral herald
Eldar also have a long history of using their fast moving specialized units to be kind of tournament OP which goes back to at least 5e or so haha
jaunty dawn
and doesn't actually work out that way every time like tyranids etc
floral herald
I think they just have a sort of privileged archetype tbh
jaunty dawn
oh yeah
like when your army archetype is 'being good at what actually wins you the game'
floral herald
Yeah
Which I guess GSC kinda slots into
Though they're a much newer army
But they're like purpose designed to be an army which wins on points as a nuisance threat
I'm kinda curious now what the all time highest win rate army is now
Just like pointlessly averaging all editions
brittle salmon
I feel like it has to be Eldar on average
There's been so many times where some new Aeldari unit ravages tournament boards
Wraithknights murdered everyone when they came in, then I'm pretty sure Aeldari fliers were top of the charts during at least the initial flyer meta
thin ibex
I know sun sharks were a big reason the flier nerf about coming in round 2 happened
tired cairn
Hmm, would Eldar be high average win rate or high tournament win rate 🤔
rocky shale
Hmm, would Eldar be high average win rate or high tournament win rate 🤔
Super hard to play, so generally better in tournaments
tired cairn
Yeah, that'd be my expectation too
topaz hinge
I'm starting to really regret playing Ratlings in Kill Team because they're so fucking short that I'm constantly having to bend over to check for visibility and it's exacerbating my persistent dizziness issue
floral herald
I wondered if that would be an issue for them
Since KT has its weird TLOS and they’re genuinely so small
tepid stratus
It creates some weird interactions of letting them hide under cover other units would be visible from
And makes getting angles to shoot them off of vantage terrain harder
desert jay
Just like pointlessly averaging all editions
I think Tau are another one that have been very strong for an entire edition in multiple editions
sour sequoia
Tau and Eldar definitely hit insanely busted repeatedly, the initial Fish Of Fury stuff and then two eras in… 6th or 7th?? and 8th of absolute domination on their codex drop
And then maybe the weird bit of 10th where every crisis suit was fielding a bajillion plasmas
Necrons got a lot of flak from the Ward codex, and getting the most spammable flyers in the flyer meta—closest they’ve ever come since I believe was the brief period of 10th indexcrons
thin ibex
The actual truth about the tau is they were generally mid but had access to specific broken strategies
So like #one way to play with them
Csm briefly had the same issue
bold halo
fish of fury was a meme based on a deliberate, one sided misinterpretation of rules
thin ibex
Aside from triptide I don't remember tau being obscene at any stage. They had power with indirect for a bit and they had power with bombers for a bit, but nothing to the degree of stupid of triptide
pale narwhal
triptide and ye olde fish of fury were the two nasty ones, yeah
other than those we've just been mid to good (I believe there was a stint pre codex where we were pretty bad in 8e)
floral herald
It's minor but I appreciate that it's extremely easy to magnetize all options for the Lord Exultant
Lets my have my silly triple pistol build without locking that in
sour sequoia
Lets my have my silly triple pistol build without locking that in
I genuinely keep thinking about that triple pistol build lemme know how it works out
floral herald
I feel like it can't be that good
The LE is a beast in melee and has Finest Hour basically
I wanna try it out
But I think Phoenix Spear+Lash is prolly best
Maybe there's an argument for the basic power sword since it has precision
But honestly, Infractors kinda give most of the Precision you probably need most of the time
(squad-wide Precision with a plasma+melta per 5 models)
I fucking love em they're like the reincarnation of 5e grey hunters
sour sequoia
the battleline stuff having precision on their good halves is just So Much
I think you want the LE to be able to just go brrr with as many attacks as possible, I'm same camp just about
floral herald
Yeah it's IMO there to give Infractors Infiltrate and some more oomph
I also think Maulerfiends might be weirdly important for EC listbuilding
They don't have a ton of options for S14 and Maulerfiends are only 130 pts and fast moving threats
floral herald
yeah, but also they're kinda target saturation I think
tough enough to take some effort and they get stronger when damaged but not killed
I'm also tempted to take a land raider just to have lascannons haha
Also a good way to deliver flawless blades or something I guess
thin ibex
Land raider is always a safe and solid choice
floral herald
I gotta figure out a dual use paintjob for black legion and EC
Thankfully that's... not that bad
soft willow
Black, slap a big undivided star in whatever color strikes your fancy.
Easy Chaos Land Raider for all occasions.
floral herald
Also easy to make split-faction paint with stuff like the Children of Torment colors
desert jay
Yeah it's wild that EC anti-tank is sorta just Fulgrim (melee), Maulerfiend (melee), and Land-Raider (lascannons)
thin ibex
they get no missile launchers or melee stacks to drop a tank?
EC strike me kind of as a "I want an early game lead" faction
take the objectives, make the tanks move to see you, jump em
floral herald
Yeah their ability to basically park park infiltrators with sticky objectives all over the midfield
desert jay
Melee stacks kinda? But it ain't S9
rocky shale
Yeah it's wild that EC anti-tank is sorta just Fulgrim (melee), Maulerfiend (mel...
That's two new codecies in a row with pretty lacking anti tank
Agents has even less lmao
Someone at gw is forgetting that tanks exist
floral herald
Since they wound on 3+ flat with AP -2
If I had a nickel for every CSM strat which involved beating tanks to death with swords I'd have at least 3 nickels so maybe it's not that weird
brittle salmon
floral herald
Similarly I think Khorne Chosen can beat knights to death with accursed weapons if they get a little lucky with the lethal hits 5+
desert jay
That's two new codecies in a row with pretty lacking anti tank
Well I'm sure Knights will have decent anti-tank, right?
(Oh wait you said new codex. Leaving it anyway)
thin ibex
Honestly in a lot of places where it seemed like anti tank was lacking, I've seen those factions actually kind of do fine against tanks. Either have ways to access +1 to wound, extra ap, or raw volume with lethals or devs
They just often don't have a high volume of stuff that's just easy peasy AT right on the tin
rocky shale
(Oh wait you said *new* codex. Leaving it anyway)
Yeah like whole new faction
IA has armiger allies, battle sister meltas, or agent squad servitor multi meltas, and one aircraft lascannon
Armigers kinda save them because the rest is like 1 melta per 5 models max
desert jay
Well, everyone has armigers (Xenos do not have armigers)
thin ibex
I feel like atm agents is kind of not a new faction, it's a faction for a lot of stuff that didn't have a home. They haven't gotten like... a release of stuff meant specifically for them have they yet?
rocky shale
Xenos armigers plz
brittle salmon
IA is barely a faction I'm not really gonna count em
rocky shale
I feel like atm agents is kind of not a new faction, it's a faction for a lot o...
It's a new codex
sour sequoia
Wounding is just the big problem, you’ve got some of that in the blastmasters and then you’ve got flawless blades go brrrr
I think EC goes fine
rocky shale
I count IA because they went and a made a whole codex
EC is much better off with the land raider and the maulerfiends
Landraiders would probably fix IA too lol
thin ibex
How are the EC stratagems?
desert jay
Xenos armigers plz
We got uh... Wraithlord. And Stormsurge
floral herald
How are the EC stratagems?
They're... fine I think
thin ibex
Tangent but if I run some knights should I run a valiant for the memes?
desert jay
Oh yeah not Stormsurge, Broadside I guess?
desert jay
Or Riptide
thin ibex
Riptide is weird because the lore seems to treat them as somewhat parallel to knights and they really aren't mechanically
desert jay
I think Riptide was the one I was thinking of
floral herald
They have a lot of reactive movement and redeploys scattered around along with the sort of obligate random buffs
desert jay
looks at Riptide model. Yeah, Riptide was what I was thinking of
thin ibex
I don't know if it'll stay that interesting in practice, but it seems cool
floral herald
Depends a lot on the detachment
thin ibex
Oh my b
floral herald
Some of them are really weird and complicated and one is just "reroll advances"
thin ibex
Was thinking about the one where you have to charge different units or something
floral herald
oooh
thin ibex
Forget exact wording but like you only get a buff by not hard focusing
upper canopy
Aren't Riptides pretty reliably able to kill knights?
sour sequoia
Riptides are settled into anti-elite rn, broadsides. Broadsides gank knights
desert jay
Was thinking about the one where you have to charge different units or something
Thinking about the army rule?
thin ibex
Oh might be the army rule yeah
floral herald
yeah the army rule is cool
brittle salmon
Riptides have S9 as their highest strength gun, Broadsides are packing the super-lascannons
thin ibex
Riptide on the table isn't really specifically anti anything, they are kind of front line tanks, which the tau otherwise lack
They like to bully stuff smaller than them
Ion gun being damage 4 is nice, but it's not gonna be killing a knight very fast at all
Hammerheads and broadsides pop knights like ripe balloons
floral herald
I think a lot of the anti-tank woes for armies just comes down to meltas being mostly bad at killing tanks rn
Like there's exceptions like fire dragons and Guilliman's shameless copy of fire dragons
(Eradicators?)
floral herald
But that's just brute forcing functionality with RR everything haha
thin ibex
And I find that they're not super efficient, but the threat they can present is still noticeable
Melta I mean
Not the units
Eradicators are excellent AT
But like having my utility grey hunters trucking around with melta gave them some nasty teeth for over confident armor
Same with stealth suit teams actually
Sunforge teams in my experience also regularly take out their intended target
floral herald
They definitely can but only wounding on a 5+ kinda sucks when you get 1 shot
Vs those halcyon days of a 72% chance to glance and a 58% chance to pen AV14 at half range
(And meltas could easily get side armor shots so this is like, shooting a land raider)
brittle salmon
Yeah Meltas are just significantly worse this edition
Even in 9e they had +1 to wound at half range iirc
floral herald
This would probably fix them in 10e
brittle salmon
So 4+ into T8, 3+ at half
And even against superheavy hulls they were on a coin flip at half range
thin ibex
Yeah they're undoubtedly worse now compared to before, but I find myself not hating where they're at for the most part, in the armies I feature them with any frequency in, they perform about as expected
In general a lot more wounds on 5's these days than before
Ap-4 is a hell of a drug too, when there are a lot less 4+ invulns flying around
brittle salmon
In general a lot more wounds on 5's these days than before
Like what?
thin ibex
Though I like my railguns with ap-5 xD
thin ibex
Like what?
With toughness going up to 10, 11, 12, 13 (though I can't think of anything toughness 12) you can see lascannons wounding on 5's, str 10 ectoplasma wounding on 5's
And in general functional armies like kroot hunting pack or green tide, horde ones, generally accept wounding on 5s as something of a norm while tearing down something tough
Incidentally can't think of anything that shoots at str11 either
Which means you only wound leman russ on 5's and 3's generally
Unless you happen to be rocking a meme gun with 22+ str or use a synergy piece to get +1 to wound
brittle salmon
Plenty of stuff is T12, large Knight chassis are, Rogal Dorns, Land Raiders, Battlewagons
thin ibex
For some reason I thought LR were t13
brittle salmon
You only hit T13+ on superheavy chassis
Like Monoliths
Lascannons are very privileged this edition
thin ibex
Yeah, for sure
Though being a tau guy, I pay a high premium for having superior guns in the form of my railguns
Anywho, overall I don't mind the meltas being where they are. I don't think we need to make it especially easy to evaporate armor
And melta equipped infantry with obscuring terrain would have too easy of a time with it in 10th otherwise
brittle salmon
I mean, it's not about making vehicles too easy to destroy, it's about anti tank access in general
Meltas have always been the high risk, high reward option
And a lot of armies that traditionally relied on them for that have struggled into vehicle heavy metas like the start of 10e
Sisters especially, who have been carried by miracle dice being ballistic and fell off the face of the earth with the nerf, that was thankfully recently reverted
Tau have not exactly been a dominant force either, let's be real
floral herald
Huh as far as I can tell there are literally 0 S11 weapons
sour sequoia
God what even is T11
floral herald
There's tons of T11