#Warhammer and Such

1 messages · Page 119 of 1

sour sequoia
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4 kinds of cryptek, yeah. The psychomancer is pretty underwhelming but the other 3 kick ass

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On the index it literally buffed enemy units

thin ibex
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lol

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obviously i could just flavor overlords as normal lords to satisfy my desire for the army to be lore-sound

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cause i feel like necron's would rarely or never field loads of overlords in one army, the ego friction would go wild

sour sequoia
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The way a lotta necron lists go you’re taking imotekh or Silent King so I renamed those to be my dynasty’s overlord and phaeron

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

thin ibex
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does the full lychguard/overlord combo in the obeisance phalanx do work?

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scythe lords and full blocks of shield lychguard i think was what came to mind

sour sequoia
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Oh yeah easy

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Obeisance has been getting better and better

thin ibex
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i kinda use it as an excuse to truck around some triarch praetorians and the triarch stalker, when i play around with list making

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though i know the stalker isn't like... great

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and the praetorians arent either

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they look neat tho

sour sequoia
thin ibex
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oh shoot i havent looked at the necron grotmas detach

sour sequoia
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Shatterstar Arsenal

paper bluff
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For game lore I'm going to take a trayzn

paper bluff
thin ibex
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lol

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isnt that also the question for the annihilation one?

sour sequoia
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So Shatterstar’s rules apply best to cavalry and non-monolith/vault vehicles

thin ibex
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ahhh thats a perfect fit for speedy praetorians

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particle shredder stalkers might be fun too

sour sequoia
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This is actually pretty big for the Arks, Stalkers, shooty canopteks, tomb blades etc

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The reroll to hit is for everybody tho

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So like tesla immortals just reroll hit and wound by default against units on objectives in SSA

thin ibex
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oh huh i dont see big rerolls? I see +1 to hit, a strat for +1 to w, and an enhance to rr 1 on hit and wound?

sour sequoia
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Wait am I fucking stupid

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I’m fucking stupid its 1 to hit

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Still, thats the WS/BS of awakened dynasty without needing leaders so

thin ibex
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def still good

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just not breachers with a cadre fireblade good

thin ibex
thin ibex
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hmm, could i use this list against space wolves i wonder

image.png
rocky shale
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I would consider splitting up the rubrics to get more cabal points

unreal cosmos
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Have you ever seen a full Tyranid army done up in the scheme of Space Hulk Genestealers?

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It kind of breaks the color formula for most Hive Fleets, curious how that might carry over to the rest of the line

upper canopy
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oh

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Yeah I think I have

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just can't remember where

tired cairn
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That's how the old (Battle for Macragg?) genestealers looked

finite compass
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Nah, the Battle for Macragge genestealers were the Behemoth read and blue scheme

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IIRC, though, the Purple and Blue scheme has been a thing since forever for 'stealers

floral herald
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I think it is the Space Hulk Colors

800px-Spacehulk1st1989.jpg
floral herald
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I was thinking it was an older hive fleet but I'm not sure there's an older source

past sphinx
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the ending bit of the first gaunts book rings so entirely fucking hollow

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"think of how much war and death these weapons will bring against the enemies of the imperium and how awful that is" says the fascist political officer

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"ill do all the wholesale slaughter the imperium desires but doing it with robots? think of the horrors"

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bah

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like a nice burger with a topping of raw oats

finite compass
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The first GG book is also odl

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*old

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But yeah

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Second one is mostly a bunch of prior short stories mashed into a semi-coherent narrative

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With also some 90's 'not everything was codified yet' jankery

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And then the third one is really fucking good.

past sphinx
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i want to like GG but theres always seemingly something that gets in my teeth

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Gaunt can suffer from occasional bouts of protaganism

finite compass
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Still the best Guard fiction IMO

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Minus a couple one-offs maybe

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I can quite confidently state that the Minka Lesk books are fucking terrible.

past sphinx
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a whiteshield should make for a more interesting core concept

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i quite liked double eagle and tallarn as guard books atleast more than ive cared for gaunt so far

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maybe i need to take another crack at necropolis, kinda bounced off that and demolished another cain book instead

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tallarn is very good as a tanker story witch are a bit of a novelity

uneven ember
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I'm pretty sure GW fluff has described the purple and blue look as the default for unconnected genestealers not part of a particular Hive Fleet

hard whale
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yeah, I read somewhere that if any hive fleet leaves 'stealers on a space hulk or whatever they go purply after a couple of generations to blend in to the shadows better

pulsar cairn
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Btw

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Erebus is not a demon prince is he?

junior robin
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nope

pulsar cairn
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I feel like he didnt a whole lot of prizes for the amount of shit he accomplished for the gods

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Is that maybe because they dont trust him with that kind of reward? Or maybe i'm just wrong?

hard whale
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Being a demon prince is a curse as much as a blessing. Erebus has so much more freedom than Lorgar or Magnus

pulsar cairn
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True

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You think he doesnt want it?

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I also thought u didnt have a choice on being a demon prince

hard whale
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I haven't read any horus heresy stuff so I don't know the character enough to know what he'd want

pulsar cairn
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I see vicksyThink

hard whale
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and maybe you don't have a single "sign on the dotted line" choice but you can try to avoid it by staying under the god's notice

pulsar cairn
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I suppose that could work wixelsNodders but i surely doubt Herebus is under a god's notice considering he caused the heresy by stabbing ol Horus

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Not saying ur wrong btw vicksyThink i feel like that's definitely a way to avoid it

hard whale
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oh yeah, I didn't think that all the way through. Given that there's non-named demon princes who've definitely not done as impressive a feat as that

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maybe he's more valuable to the gods as a regular-sized space marine

pulsar cairn
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Yeah, that would make sense wixelsNodders

solemn gull
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Can’t have any horns breaking up that useful shiny head of his

pulsar cairn
paper bluff
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The primarch demoning may also be an extension of themselves and thus be different and allow them to be "demon princes"

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Erebus is just a mortal guy

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The worst guy but just a hugely selfish guy

pulsar cairn
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i also thought about that the other day vicksyThink didnt Lorgar criticize him on that?

bright dove
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Erebus is more useful to the Dark Gods as a mortal than he'd ever be as a Daemon Prince

paper bluff
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To be blamed for everything? No that's the fault of the silent king but their reasons are very different. SK wanted to unite his people and get them better lives. Erebus did it for himself

bright dove
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Nah, as a demagogue. Say what you will, man does have a talent for turning people to Chaos.

pastel rampart
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Erebus is in it for the love of the game.

paper bluff
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And himself

upper canopy
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but mostlyy the love of the game

uneven ember
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so, like, different Bloodthirsters can have personal enmities and grudges and goals, one might be an indiscriminate frenzied killing machine while another is a strategist who's all about finding the worthiest opponents to fight in single combat, but they'll never have ambitions or personalities that don't revolve around killing

tired cairn
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My very low informed read of primarchs who are now demon princes is that they mostly have free will but have kind of trapped themselves in a bad position

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(though Magus did stuff like destroy a bunch of his personality fragments too)

uneven ember
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With my preferred read (above), a Daemon Prince has free will but won't will anything that isn't fundamentally an aspect of their patron.

floral herald
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I think there's a description in one of the fall of cadia novels about the experience of ascending

uneven ember
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If you've become a Daemon of Khorne you can do whatever you want, which is fine with Khorne because to become a Daemon Prince you got rid of wanting anything that isn't Khornite.

desert jay
tired cairn
pulsar holly
pastel rampart
floral herald
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Aha

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A little earlier

tired cairn
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Hmm. Wasn't there something about Angron being particularly lucid when in the warp because the nails didn't work when he was immaterial?

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(though I wouldn't be surprised if Primarchs were better able to keep hold of their identity after ascending)

paper bluff
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Mind you angron has one of the fastest respawn rates of the demonprinces

floral herald
uneven ember
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& as far as the "free will" goes, mm
A lot of the daemon named characters have pissed off their patron in one way or another

tired cairn
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Oh, I definitely agree on the Free Will part.

paper bluff
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In lore, do we really know much about the "day-to-day" of the great game?

tired cairn
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Did the Primarchs get a fast track to demonhood?

paper bluff
floral herald
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Basically there's always huge wars in the warp

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Daemonic invasions are kinda... outbursts of it often

tired cairn
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I'm kind of wondering if they seem to have more of their personality because they had very strong wills before ascension or because the various chaos gods found it useful/expedient/whatever to ascend them instead of the normal process (so much as there is a normal one)

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If a demon dies in the warp does it stay dead?

paper bluff
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Like how the emp almost went dark king from drinking from the warp. Stands to reason the primarchs also drink from the warp and become marked by it

paper bluff
uneven ember
tired cairn
tired cairn
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Some Khorne demons on having mortality explained to them: "man, this sucks. I'll never get a better W/L ratio against Anataeus Sedreel"

solemn gull
# uneven ember I don't think so

They only permanently die to blank shenanigans or if their god decides they aren’t useful enough and repurposes their warp juice

pastel rampart
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Daemons cannot permanently die except under very specific circumstances:

  • Their god decides it so for whatever reason (often petty, if given a reason at all)
  • Their True Name is spoken and killed with a specific, often ritualistic weapon
  • Killed by one of the above weapons--stuff like a Shard of Erebus or the Sword of Asur or the Sword of the Emperor
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Kaldor Draigo killed Kar'voth while in the Warp but it isn't said how, exactly. The Titansword wasn't functioning properly at the time.

thin ibex
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Pulled an emperor and channeled his plot power through his hands

brittle salmon
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If anyone's to blame here, it's the C'tan

pastel rampart
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A tremendous amount of 40k's woes can be blamed on the Old Ones for not helping the Necrontyr and their turbo radiation.

brittle salmon
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Also true

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the Necrontyr had a really bad lot and only turned to the Star Gods out of sheer desperation

pastel rampart
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Had they helped out then the Necron wouldn't have looked at the C'tan for a cure, and wouldn't have eventually lead to the War in Heaven.

uneven ember
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have you considered that maybe the Necrontyr gave a Bad Vibe

bright dove
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Boy did they.

brittle salmon
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it'd have been kinder to just wipe them all out then

pastel rampart
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The Old Ones were supremely arrogant and paid the price for it.

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Unfortunately so did everyone else.

uneven ember
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(also, I realize this is a Me Issue, but bear with me)
(I don't like the way a lot of lore with, like, the Grey Knights focuses on the Warp as basically a Place)
(My favorite take is when you go all-in on "time and space have no coherent definition, shape and thought are mutable and ever-changing, physical laws are without meaning")

pastel rampart
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The Warp having (semi) distinct and 'stable' places predates Grey Knights as a whole--stuff like the Garden of Nurgle goes all the way back to the Realm of Chaos books.

bright dove
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So the Warp is a place. Gets traveled through all the time. It have places that are stable and not is a fundamental part of the setting.

paper bluff
bright dove
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Oh yeah, the Necron books give a good look at what they were like.

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And the Old Ones were probably right to go "Nnnnnnooooooo"

paper bluff
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Just imagine the fantasy skaven rolling up the the elves and going "please give-bequeath us the cure-health to long life-immortality"

bright dove
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Because fun thing, they really haven't changed a bit.

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"What are you going to do if we give you immortality?"

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"CONQUER THE GALAXY AND BEYOND!!!!!"

floral herald
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So when their leaders show up and are like "we want to be immortal btw" it's much easier to see going "nah fuck off m8"

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I can really see them being Skaveny now fuck

paper bluff
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Even worse! Just a noble casually killing a soldier to prove a point to a prince sort

paper bluff
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It is all there

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The backstabbing, the disease, high birthrate

bright dove
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Even Trazyn, who is positively englightened to a sickening degree compared to other Necrons, considers basically everyone else in the galaxy as something to put in an exhibit because it's fun to look at things that are less great than you.

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Because some things should be preserved after the Necrons wipe everything else off the map.

paper bluff
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Or subjugate them

bright dove
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Yep

paper bluff
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In a very British museum sort of way

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Hang on, did malcador have the Rosetta stone?

past sphinx
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as someone who works in preservation Orikon was never going to be on my good side ever again after infinite and divine

jaunty dawn
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what would malcador even do with the rosetta stone isnt he old enough to just know the egyptian scripts

past sphinx
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isnt malc dated to the DAOT?

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after all he was the one that help make emps in that test tube /s

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or am i

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the truth is out there

peak olive
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Green stuff bits (energy lance, pincer)

IMG_8422.jpg
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Prolly gonna stick the pincer on a tzaangor

past sphinx
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Acheron got some drip

uneven ember
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niiice

meager dagger
paper bluff
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so, they showed the siloette of the new lusius model

south axle
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I am guessing the wurm is for Necromunda

paper bluff
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that seems to be the consensus

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Lucius, some 30k battle automata, ourruk shaman, necromunda construct, and a vampire count for old world

mental birch
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Weird part

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Is they don't list 30k

pulsar cairn
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lucius only had like a real old model before right?

thin ibex
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Maybe it's a votann walker

paper bluff
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It would be wild to be something knight related

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similar lower half

floral herald
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Holy shit a new hunchback

image0.jpg
tardy vault
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I bet you it's not an Ourruk Shaman but a Beastman Shaman

paper bluff
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yeah then the rider... lookd like they have a falcion of some kind?

tardy vault
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It's probably some sort of death unit tbf

still warren
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looks like a graveguard helmet?

bright dove
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I think that's a Wight King

unreal cosmos
# mental birch Is they don't list 30k

We were puzzling this over in the Age of Darkness discord, apparently someone asked them on Facebook and the answer was something like "oh these are teasers of what's to come in 2025 in general"

past sphinx
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Better yet bring 2

images_-_2025-01-06T091803.391.jpg
jagged dawn
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Huh neat, new army boxes coming out soon (hooray for plastic Krieg)

soft willow
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The red one is the other Thanatar varient for Horus Heresy.

jagged dawn
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Yeah we can see that, got the vibe

past sphinx
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Thats literally just the laser version

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Theres nothing else it could be

floral herald
floral herald
past sphinx
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U want 10 horses and a single bit of arty?

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In the infantry and artillery faction?

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Why gw

floral herald
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I’d have preferred 2x engineers boxes

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But death riders are fuckin sick

past sphinx
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230 aint bad though and people like horses

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Tragically i can no longer mock shovel brains for having an army thats out of scale

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But krieg fans have seemingly become far less cringe over the past few years

jagged dawn
solemn gull
upper bluff
# south axle

I'm 90% sure the battle automata is a new Thousand Sons unit. There was that white dwarf thing about Rubicon animated battle automata

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Still gore of my comfort character 😭

floral herald
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It doesn't... look very rubicon-y or chaos-y in outline at least

past sphinx
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No giant hat can't be a tson

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Lack of fashion sense is a requirement

tepid stratus
unreal cosmos
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It looks EXACTLY like a Thanatar

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They wouldn't make a TSons mech that was just a 1:1 of a Heresy unit

past sphinx
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Maybe admech finally get their fucking automata back

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8th was a real mess for those boys

unreal cosmos
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I really doubt it's 40k because that would preclude Heresy having its own version which, they already do

bright dove
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What if it's Kin?

soft willow
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Here’s the LI version:

IMG_2107.jpg
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Top Thanatar has a HH kit bottom one does not.

bright dove
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Also, for AoS minded folks, I'm toying around with a list for Blades of Khorne. How does it seem?


Blades of Khorne | Bloodbound Warhorde
Drops: 4
Prayer Lore - Blood Blesssings of Khorne
Manifestation Lore - Judgements of Khorne

General's Regiment
Mighty Lord of Khorne (130)
 • General
 • Favoured of Khorne
 • Ar'gath, The King of Blades
Blood Warriors (210)
Bloodstoker (100)
Skullgrinder (130)

Regiment 1
Aspiring Deathbringer (90)
Bloodreavers (200)
 • Reinforced
Bloodreavers (200)
 • Reinforced
Wrathmongers (120)

Regiment 2
Slaughterpriest (160)
Bloodreavers (100)
Bloodreavers (100)
Bloodreavers (100)

Regiment 3
Realmgore Ritualist (110)
Khorgorath (130)
Wrathmongers (120)

Faction Terrain
Skull Altar```
soft willow
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Four drops? Seems like a lot even with the new changes.

bright dove
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It is, yeah.

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The overall plan is to contest as many objectives as possible, because Bloodbound Warband will give those units +1 to hit when fighting on Objectives I don't control

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So if the opponent goes first, that kinda plays into what I want anyways

soft willow
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Worth trying I suppose. Not sure that building around a conditional bonus like that is a winning plan, but I've not played enough AoS to know. Curious to know how it works out if you do put it on the field.

bright dove
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As am I!

soft willow
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I do think that Stormcast might give you problems.

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There's enough 3d6 charge stuff to cause you issues with them striking in from the celestial realm.

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How much can you afford to lose before you activate is a very IGYG problem, but it's present here.

tardy vault
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Because they'll force you to move up the board on your turn then charge you on their turn

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Also it will give their ranged options their choice of target

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Also also, it gives them the chance of a round 2 double turn

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Like, for DoK I really want that double turn because if I get two turns of uninterrupted manuever and charges with my snakes you're generally not going to have a frontline anymore.

bright dove
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I am not sure what to say to the idea of removing a Khorne army frontline

tardy vault
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generally lol

bright dove
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That implies a backline

tardy vault
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Khorne is a bit different

soft willow
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Khorne cares not whence the blood flows?

bright dove
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Correct!

soft willow
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But also losing 40% of your army before you do anything is probably bad.

bright dove
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Ehhh

tardy vault
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But like, 60 swings of 3 damage crit mortals (which is entirely reasonable for a snake army) kills most things

bright dove
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Every one of my units that dies gives me a blood tithe point

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If you're killing my bloodreavers, then thanks?

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It's not a lot, but I do get something out of units dying

bright dove
tepid stratus
bright dove
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Casual. I know my limits

tepid stratus
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It's fine if a bit reaver heavy for my tastes

bright dove
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Reavers give me more units that can die

tepid stratus
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There's better solutions to that especially if your opponent benefits from your stuff dying as well (moreso than usual)

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Personally I'd drop the skull grinder, aspiring death bringer and khorgorath for a mighty lord to make contesting those objectives easier and skarr blood wrath since he combos with the wrathmongers and can self revive

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To consolidate more you can also drop the ritualist and some reavers for skullreapers who will pop the fuck off on an objective with the various buffs available for contesting

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Wait I'm blind you've already got a mighty lord in there

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Leaves the option of a bloodsecrator on the table then, makes rallying the elite units more reasonable

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The stoker could also be dropped for more bodies, the run and charge is nice but with the new honor guard for a +2" move aura getting a bunch of units closer is usually better value

jaunty dawn
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I hope new black knights means new hexwraiths

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just need the option to buy 5 dreadblade harrows with scythes. that's all I need

tepid stratus
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In the event you get out dropped and end up with the extra honor guard feel free to slap bodyguard on the warriors to make whatever objective then and the mighty lord are on just that bit more annoying to take

bright dove
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Distraction Khorgorath is probably staying if only because I have 150 points left after my edits

tepid stratus
#

That's all they ever end up as, a 1 turn speed bump

bright dove
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Or another unit of Wrathbringers

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*mongers

tepid stratus
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Buuut that 1 turn speed bump could be 10 blood reivers that can screen a slightly larger area and leave 50pts for a free turn 1 command point?

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Wrathmongers are never a bad pick either

bright dove
#

Three units of Wrathmongers cover so much ground

tepid stratus
#

I frequently see 2 wrath mongers and 2 skullreapers squads in lists running in pairs

bright dove
# 

Blades of Khorne | Bloodbound Warhorde
Drops: 4
Prayer Lore - Blood Blesssings of Khorne
Manifestation Lore - Judgements of Khorne

General's Regiment
Mighty Lord of Khorne (130)
 • General
 • Favoured of Khorne
 • Ar'gath, The King of Blades
Blood Warriors (210)
Bloodsecrator (130)
Wrathmongers (120)

Regiment 1
Realmgore Ritualist (110)
Bloodreavers (100)
Bloodreavers (100)

Regiment 2
Slaughterpriest (160)
Bloodreavers (100)
Bloodreavers (100)
Bloodreavers (100)

Regiment 3
Skarr Bloodwrath (150)
Skullreapers (220)
Wrathmongers (120)
Wrathmongers (120)

Faction Terrain
Skull Altar```

What the list looks like now.
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Couldn't bring myself to ditch the Realmgore Ritualist

jagged dawn
#

got bored, made a couple of army lists. Enjoy

+ FACTION KEYWORD: Aeldari - Craftworlds
+ DETACHMENT: Battle Host
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1990pts
+
+ WARLORD: Char2: Autarch Wayleaper
+ ENHANCEMENT: Fate's Messenger (on Char3: Spiritseer)
+ NUMBER OF UNITS: 14
+ SECONDARY: - Bring It Down: (2x2) - Assassination: 5 Characters - Cull The Horde: 2x5
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Char1: 1x Avatar of Khaine (335 pts): The Wailing Doom
Char2: 1x Autarch Wayleaper (115 pts): Warlord, Howling Banshee Mask, Star Glaive, Reaper Launcher
Char3: 1x Farseer (80 pts): Eldritch Storm, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
Char4: 1x Spiritseer (80 pts): Shuriken Pistol, Witch Staff
Enhancement: Fate's Messenger (+15 pts)
Char5: 1x Warlock (45 pts): Destructor, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

11x Storm Guardians (100 pts)
• 1x Serpent's Scale Platform: Guardian Combat Weapon
• 10x Storm Guardian: 10 with Guardian Combat Weapon, Shuriken Pistol

5x Rangers (55 pts): 5 with Close Combat Weapon, Ranger long rifle, Shuriken Pistol
5x Rangers (55 pts): 5 with Close Combat Weapon, Ranger long rifle, Shuriken Pistol
5x Rangers (55 pts): 5 with Close Combat Weapon, Ranger long rifle, Shuriken Pistol
5x Warp Spiders (125 pts)
• 4x Warp Spider: 4 with Close combat weapon, Deathspinner
• 1x Warp Spider Exarch: Close combat weapon, Deathspinner, Powerblades
10x Wraithblades (340 pts): 10 with Ghostswords
10x Wraithguard (380 pts): 10 with Close Combat Weapon, Wraithcannon
3x Windriders (80 pts): 3 with Close Combat Weapon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
1x Wraithlord (145 pts): Ghostglaive, 2x Shuriken Catapult```
bright dove
#

If nothing else, it's a second priest

jagged dawn
#

ignore like, actual loadouts and stuff

tepid stratus
mild glen
# south axle

Lucius, who-knows, probably a ranged Hellbrute or something, Orruk Shamen, Necromunda thing, new SBGL Black Knights

pale narwhal
#

second one is the HH Thanatar-Calix (big lascannon robot)

thin ibex
#

yall think autocannon spam has legs?

past sphinx
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yes

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with qualifiers

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mostly being ap1 really hampers things into a lot of targets

desert jay
thin ibex
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so with some combo's to get bonus AP, you can kinda scate by with mass volume of budda budda budda

soft willow
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I mean a lot of Chaos Knight lists are functionally a lot of autocannons of different flavors.

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So it seems like it could work.

desert jay
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I was being stupid and making a joke about legs, but also yes they are a neat thing to stick onto other armies

past sphinx
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arriving at the table to snatch chains and knock over relics

thin ibex
#

hey sentinels also have legs and an autocannon if you want

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i like it better than the las cause i get two shots, meaning on 4+ one will probably hit

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and wounding vehicles on a 5+ with a reroll is half decent still

past sphinx
#

you dont believe in the heart of the cards

unreal cosmos
#

Does anyone know if the Leviathan Terminator Librarian can have a head inserted after being fully assembled or does it need to go in before the chestplate?

pastel rampart
unreal cosmos
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I meant for if I was doing a non-standard head

past sphinx
#

whats the vibe on this scheme

runic swallow
#

Seems appropriately knightly

tepid stratus
#

He's either about to joust or direct traffic

pale narwhal
jaunty dawn
#

even the default head if you just snip off its peg

#

mine has a space wolf head for beardy :)

thin ibex
junior robin
#

finally, KISS primaris lieutenant

rumourengine-jan7-content-2er1e0sqzd.jpg
thin ibex
#

chaos follow up

image.png
pastel rampart
pulsar cairn
#

Nice

#

Skaven feel like some very fucked up cartoon characters sometimes

runic swallow
#

Because they are!

pulsar cairn
pastel rampart
tardy vault
#

Tried to do some list building and once again I am asking for DoK snakes to get a priest hero

#

or at least let the Hag Queen take snakes in her regiment

tepid stratus
#

DoK ended up with one of the more weirdly restrictive regiment options

tardy vault
#

yeah

#

and it's super annoying because not only is our best magic item priest only (free d6 ritual points on average gets you round 5 buffs on a single unit round 2) it also locks out the best DoK specific manifestation

#

On the other hand, the new honor guard changes and the ability to take an Ironscale in a regiment means I can now have 10" moving snakes

#

which is entirely reasonable with run and charge and will not be abused in any way

tepid stratus
#

That +2" movement is such a blessing

#

My IJ lists are genuinely torn over the +2 move or the +1 to hit on a hacker pig

tardy vault
#

yeah, those changes are great

#

just

#

need an update to list building so I can take a fucking hag queen instead of another Wizard

#

It's either take Hag Queen and some Doomies (which are fantastic but I refuse to use) or a Bloodwracked Shrine and a mix of khineri and an unreinforced unit of bow snakes

tepid stratus
#

Maybe your token hero this edition will be a snake priest

tardy vault
#

One can hope

tepid stratus
#

Why not use the warlocks?

tardy vault
#

Old ass models

#

Like

tepid stratus
#

Fair fair

#

It's why I don't vibe with some of my daemon stuff for tzeentch and slaanesh

tardy vault
#

Yeah, the aelf side of the army is all stuff that was refreshed with Dark Elves back in WHFB

#

and it shows

tepid stratus
#

At least some of that stuff is from the past decade at least. You could always be ogres

tardy vault
#

Yeah, the melusai/khinerai half is great

#

and some of the old models are fine

#

(Witch Aelves)

#

but, like, Doomies are pretty shit

#

and Avatar of Khaine no longer is even lore accurate

#

(Morathi being Morathi replaced them with statues of herself)

tepid stratus
#

I'd be real interested in what a modern cauldron kit would look like

tardy vault
#

Same tbh

#

I think they should go hard on the snake aspect

#

do like The Shadow Queen curling around and clutching the cauldron with the human bit behind it like the current Avatar

#

Tbh, what I kind of want to happen is when what's his name comes back, the army is split kind of like the orruk book with all the aelf stuff going to him and Morathi's half going like full into the monster hybrid stuff

#

Give us sphinx or centaur cav and shit

#

Hell, Morathi is fucking with the Idoneth. Give us some mermaids

tepid stratus
#

In every sense of the word too

#

But yeah I wouldn't be surprised for Malerion and the Umbraneth to get added in kruelboyz style

tardy vault
#

It seems the easiest way to do two very similar yet distinct armies without bloating the number of armies total.

#

what I don't want is for DoK to get BoC'd or something by Malerion

#

keep them distinct and different

tepid stratus
#

I doubt you get hit with the divorce treatment but I wouldn't be shocked if you lost your whfb kits to old world and the AOS specific stuff got rolled into Umbraneth shadowkin or whatever they'll be called

tardy vault
#

Yeah...

#

not too upset about losing the whfb kits getting lost

#

but I want to be able to continue to play a DoK army instead of a specific skew list of Umbraneth or something

tepid stratus
#

Monkeys paw curls, lose the old stuff and not get anything new

tardy vault
tepid stratus
#

It may be a darkoath situation. Be part of Umbraneth but get a skew formation and maybe an army of renown

tardy vault
#

we will need at least one more troop imo and ofc a priest

deft crest
#

Kill team players! I have a request!!!

#

Can someone measure the dimensions of their barbed wire / heavy barricades?

b9c4e056-e2ad-4c60-82e0-6bc030e2c2d5.jpg
floral herald
#

I can do that when I get home

deft crest
#

Thanks a ton

runic swallow
#

Back in my day we just made do with toothpicks and braided wire!

#

Though seriously that is a very good way to make barbed wire terrain, just take toothpicks, cut off the ends to the desired size, make Xs with them, then wind the wire around a pencil or similar circular thing and intersperse the toothpick Xs through them

#

Looks very nice from tabletop height, and is very cheap

#

And you can make it in whatever configuration you want, either as based bits that you can connect or as part of a wider terrain piece

#

Sorry if that was kinda a tangent from the actual asked-for thing, but I thought it might be nice to share for anyone it might be helpful to

orchid venture
unreal cosmos
#

I choose to believe Macragge mostly looked like a golf course

#

Really adore this whole project

pastel rampart
#

Power sword? Nay, power put.

pulsar cairn
#

Bolters go blam blam vicksyGa

#

What do power swords go?

paper bluff
#

Swioosh

runic swallow
#

Zworm

#

Perhaps zwhoosh

deft crest
# runic swallow Sorry if that was kinda a tangent from the actual asked-for thing, but I thought...

No you're good. I'm only really asking because this is a 3D scanned model that somebody uploaded and it's based off of the kill team official box. I have a organizer that's specifically sized with inserts to fit these and because I don't have the real thing in front of me, I don't know what the real scale of these models are supposed to be because think the person that uploaded them changed the scale

#

It's funny cuz I don't know if I'll ever use these. I think them I might use the ladders.

#

There's a really really nice barbed wire roll I bought a long while back for use with mini stuff and I would love to start getting into terrain making but I should probably finish with finishing painting

rocky shale
jaunty dawn
#

this is interesting!

#

losing the generic squads is a little sad but expected

#

And in practice i think the variety is overall a win, though its sad to not have organic heavy weapons in infantry squads anymore. Kinda iconic personally

floral herald
#

Hmm yeah that’s neat

#

Hoping the catachan refresh isn’t far out now

jaunty dawn
#

Agreed

#

At least a kill team would be nice

#

Especially since dk are gonna rotate out sooner rather than later

deft crest
#

Catachan killteam?

deft crest
upper canopy
#

The concept of the entire galaxy being only cadia krieg and catchan is really funny

pastel rampart
#

Lots more work still but oil washes really do make this a lot easier.

20250107_210854.jpg 20250107_210902.jpg
floral herald
#

Doesn’t matter much unless you play a lot of comp kt

deft crest
#

As long as it's several years and that we still have updated rules I suppose

#

I didn't just build two boxes. The little bastards to have them unplayable you know? NaoSigh

pulsar cairn
jagged dawn
#

Don’t know if it’s the promise of new models or something else but we’ve begun to think about DKoK again. Honestly tempted to make guard our next army after we get our 1k point chaos knight army completed

#

So uh, guess we’re gonna be painting a lot of infantry in the future

#

God help us

mild glen
#

On the one hand, I think there's some potential for really cool colour schemes taking advantage of Krieger coats...
On the other... they are, like, ruined by memes and their association with particularly fash-ey players

jagged dawn
#

Yeah that’s fair

#

They definitely got stereotyped pretty heavily in the community

#

Luckily we have an irl entrenching shovel and if anyone starts making fascist jokes we can bonk them

brittle salmon
#

mordian iron guard as DKoK proxies sweep

mild glen
#

Like, I have this idea in my head that's white cloth and (dark) purple armour with various bits of trim and livery in blacks and yellows (because, yes, this is basically a nonbinary flag colour scheme), and I'm (perhaps irrationally) worried that people will see that and my pasty white butt and think "KKK"

mild glen
brittle salmon
#

yeaaaaah sadcowboy

hallow star
#

the return to the what?

jaunty dawn
#

Love all the shots of tabletop accurate scenery

#

Theyre back and this time its personal

deft crest
floral herald
#

Heck I was dealing with snow and forgot

#

I’ll set a reminder

deft crest
#

No worries I also am in the snowzone so i get it

jagged dawn
floral herald
#

GSC painters

image0.jpg
jagged dawn
floral herald
#

I also have some GSC yeah

jagged dawn
#

Yeah that’s part of why we’re considering them, already have a couple units

deft crest
#

Chaos cultist lovers: Firsttime.jpeg

jagged dawn
#

We’ll have to paint some of those too for our iconoclast fiefdom

#

Currently our 3 (maybe 4) main ideas for what secondary army we want to start are (in no particular ranking)

  • GSC
  • Space Marines
  • Admech
  • Aeldari
deft crest
#

I just want to finish my daemons but the work is daunting Izutsumitired

jagged dawn
#

Of these, 3 of them we already have kits lying around that we could use (namely some acolyte hybrids, sternguard, and a kastelan robot)

deft crest
#

I have so many dogs to paint

floral herald
#

I haven’t had any time to do like any hobby stuff in a while so I’m slowly trying to restart

jagged dawn
#

Ultimately we’ll probably go for space marines just because
A) they’re fairly easy to paint, lots of broad surfaces, mostly helmets (faces suck)
B) they’re a good multitool army that’s decently forgiving
C) they’re the poster boys and also included in the starter kits

pastel rampart
#

D) They're plentiful and cheap on ebay

jagged dawn
#

Oh yeah
E) And our local 3rd party store is selling the ultimate kit for $200 which is the exact same price as a regular combat patrol

deft crest
#

Good ol' "Hey wanna go 1/2ies on a starterbox with me" armies

jagged dawn
#

Exactly

deft crest
#

I did that for Sigmarites for AOS

#

That was the best short term decision ever

desert jay
jagged dawn
#

We get two combat patrols of which we can either keep or split with someone else

deft crest
#

God damn do i love some gold soldiers tho

#

Balthazar gelt you lovely bastard.

floral herald
#

I forget the forge world which gets it in the codex

jagged dawn
#

Even non-discounted the ultimate set is $260 CAD and therefore a really good fucking deal

#

That’s like, the same as a single knight questoris (or chaos equivalent (though they’re still technically questoris in the lore))

#

Or we just get the regular starter set which is about $135 and snag a librarian for $50 to make a combat patrol on the cheap

rocky shale
#

Yeah. But those new Aeldari sculpts

rocky shale
jagged dawn
#

Yeah true

runic swallow
floral herald
#

French style Krieg look good as fuck

deft crest
#

I wanted to go with orange somewhere in the colorscheme but if i default to grey and black i'll just have to make sure my skirt and boots are queer enough to beat the assumptions.

I love the french style kriegs that being said.

floral herald
#

(From Reddit)

image0.jpg
runic swallow
#

Tan also looks pretty good and is more American/British

#

Though I’m still sad the Worst People latched onto the WWI faction likely because most of them are idiots and don’t know the difference

#

Also olive drab wouldn’t be terrible

deft crest
#

The have a stopwatch to do artillary barrages in KT and it made me so happy to see that bit for the spotter operative

runic swallow
#

But I’m just an olive drab lover

mild glen
#

Powder blue Krieg coats are fantastic, it's true

deft crest
#

I might test one of my troopers with the standard US army green

#

And see how I feel about it

runic swallow
#

Fun fact, we wore tan in WWI

deft crest
#

We also wore green it looks like in winter

#

Olive Drab green (Which i guess is just another version of tanned lmao)

runic swallow
#

Huh, hadn’t heard that before

deft crest
#

Could be wrong i guess

jagged dawn
#

Brodies and adrians and etc

past sphinx
#

brodie krieg go pretty hard

jagged dawn
#

On the Krieg note

IMG_6562.jpg
tired cairn
#

That's a pretty cool concept

jagged dawn
#

Huh neat, was doing some speculative building and turns out the SM models included in the leviathan box are almost exactly 1000 points

And they’re exactly 1000 points if you throw in another sternguard squad (which we did because we have one laying around)

deft crest
runic swallow
solemn gull
#

I saw a really cool fanfic piece where the krieg you see are so pious and hate themselves so much because they are actually the descendants of the traitors that lost. I think it was inspired by Marley from AOT a bit but the dynamic was cool.

jagged dawn
past sphinx
#

its that kinda how they already see it?

#

not the losing part but traitors as a whole

uneven ember
#

Yeah, collective guilt that they try to atone with death cult warfare

#

Why I like their aesthetic but not their lore/vibe, TBH. The WWI vibe feels pretty off to me if the participants are death-seeking pennants and not teenagers who signed up for a couple heroic charges and medals all around.

paper bluff
#

I think ww1 kreig is a good theme

5327640e4ee7826bada6edf747c0c845.jpg
desert jay
#

And speaking of Kreig...

#

Detachment stuff, with a fair amount of detail on Siege Regiment in specific

#

Over the Top strat is spicy

rocky shale
#

The artillery stuff seems fun

tired cairn
#

It's funny that the suicidal Death Korps aren't the ones that have the off-map callins that blow themselves up

topaz hinge
#

The siege regiment seems bad so far but also 200% my shit

topaz hinge
jagged dawn
#

Hmm, hold on there’s a good line about the Krieg mentality from a ultramarines omnibus

#

Trying to find it

tepid stratus
#

The recon regiment is actually kinda cracked. Krieg squads with an effective 2+ 5+++ is wild

jagged dawn
#

found it
"If the men of Krieg have a failing,' he said calmly, 'it is that they undervalue themselves too. They will die for you gladly, if you tell them they are dying for a reason, any reason. I am asking you, please, do not abuse that trust - and don't squander the resources you have here. That is all I have to say."

#

for context we believe this is a (non-krieg) commissar speaking to an Ultramarine Captain

#

not a bad novel, Knight of Talassar if we recall

#

Does unfortunately focus on Cato sicarius

desert jay
#

How is Cato in the novels?

tepid stratus
#

Old novels Cato is obnoxious. New novels "punished" Cato is pretty cool

paper bluff
mild glen
#

Dear someone that understands Trench Crusade: please explain Blood Tokens to me

runic swallow
#

Every time you take damage, you put one on a model. They can be exchanged by the opponent to -1d6 from a roll by that model or other effects

mild glen
#

So the attacking model removes them from the defender, and im doing this they go away?
So if, theoretically, I have Rifleman Mc Lucky and they have six blood tokens when starting down an artillery witch, AW chooses to use all six blood tokens, but still rolls all 1s, does that mean McLucky now has zero blood tokens and somehow is at almost-full strength?

runic swallow
#

Oh, the blood doesn’t have anything to do with health, you’re just down or dead or fine

#

It just is an abstraction

mild glen
#

Or, like 1 bt because of the injury chart

runic swallow
#

But yes, the enemy player would be the one to use the Tokens on Rifleman McLucky

tepid stratus
#

If he's got 6 tokens on him then he has a hell of an injury roll in his future

mild glen
#

Yeah, they're not hit points, they're just a thing you can use to chase the 9+ to remove McLucky from play

runic swallow
#

Yeah, you can also use the BLOODBATH rule using those six tokens to make McLucky have on hell of a injury roll

mild glen
#

Looking through the rules, I find myself very tempted to just OOPS! All Basic Infantry With Rifles and hope my dice are hot

runic swallow
#

Not unreasonable, if just to get more objective cover and also more dudes than the other guy has bullets

#

Though having only looked at the rules I wouldn’t know how well it’d go in practice against a huge scary dude with a lot of modifiers unless you had some modifiers of your own

#

Then it’s probably just “hope you win the objective game as the Rot Demon kills everyone”

mild glen
#

We just spiking 6s, baybee

#

(Yes, I am aware this is Poor Decisions Overdrive)

runic swallow
#

You’re WWI-Maxing, this is a era-appropriate mindset

#

Just one more offensive will do it, I just know it

#

Also, do we know when the full release will be?

floral herald
#

did you still need the wire?

deft crest
#

If you have it on hand, I found somebody's approximation but

uneven ember
mild glen
floral herald
deft crest
#

Tyty

floral herald
#

np

runic swallow
solemn gull
#

The “8 years in the warp with constant demons and no end in sight” vibe is great

#

Plus he gets a beard

tepid stratus
#

Man just needed endless torment to humble him

pastel rampart
uneven ember
#

love it

runic swallow
#

This is why they’re the best

tired cairn
#

ten sided dice?

past sphinx
#

Thr most based wargaming dice

uneven ember
#

I feel like Cranky Pete would be a d10 guy

mild glen
#

d10s: because it's easier to do math in chunks of ten than chunks of six.

modern tiger
#

I was watching a whole ~how to fix tenth edition~ thing and I’m not exactly sure how much fixing tenth needs, but one thing I do miss is the two axes on which you can customize your Special Mc Guy, (being relics and warlord traits) since imo that’s a cool way to make your special hero character unique

#

Also I miss the silly grudge match stratagems

#

However, there were some crazy combinations. Tbh I feel like a way to fix this is leaning on warlord traits being for the leader of your army, and then being some type of army wide buff that goes away if the warlord dies (in a theoretical 11th edition)

#

And enhancements staying the same ig. Both would be detachment based

modern tiger
jaunty dawn
#

yeah the two axes were really important

#

whereas enhancements are like, not even really a huge choice unless they're all good

#

tbh I think itd be nice to see crusade promoted even more, and make it the customised force 40k gamemode

#

make it somewhat more pickup friendly and not just a campaign thing

#

cause I think increasingly theres just gonna be two camps with competing interests and using one ruleset to please both is untenable

modern tiger
#

yeah....

#

although i feel like crusade would jsut get left to the wayside

jaunty dawn
#

its certainly possible

thin ibex
#

im legitimately surprised that gw has given the krieg artillery team a str 12 indirect weapon

#

i was sure they'd been avoiding high power artillery as like a design rule

#

to avoid anything that can pop a heavy tank indirectly

#

siege cannon spam seems like almost a given

#

just max out general purpose indirect

#

does weird me out that the basilisk, which is something of an icon, is so much weaker

tepid stratus
#

It'll be hitting on 4s but in bridgehead it would get reroll 1s

#

So not bad anti tank if it's points remain low. The preview has it at 75 but I doubt that's final

rocky shale
#

Also the AP is somewhat low

solemn gull
#

Some day GW will make artillery that doesn’t need to be set up on the table

floral herald
#

It’s a detachment rule for the siege regiment haha

#

But also a base BS of 5+ seems… awkward for an indirect weapon

desert jay
#

TBF, has access to buffs from both Heavy and Take Aim!

jagged dawn
#

Reading Dead Men Walking, pretty good so far

tepid stratus
#

But indirect can never hit on better than a 4+ anyways

desert jay
#

Ye so in indirect mode it's either/or

#

Wait, forgot Indirect also applies -1

tepid stratus
#

Effectively it's ap -1 which ain't bad against 3+ save elites and vehicles but it's gonna struggle against heavy tanks

desert jay
#

So with indirect you need both heavy + order to hit on that 4+

tepid stratus
#

At least you can add rerolling 1 to hit in bridgehead, provided this gets the infantry keyword like the ordinance teams did

#

Mainly as long as its finalized points is 100 or less then it has an argument to be taken over the heavy lascannons ordinance teams as a less reliable but higher damage ceiling and easier to protect casino cannon

#

I would be curious to see if the new codex has a way to reroll number of shots in any of the detachments tho

thin ibex
#

im just surprised that any sort of s12 indirect exists when it seems like all the old customers were designed specifically to avoid that breakpoint

#

like the basilisk and manticore

#

or medusa

tepid stratus
#

They gotta sell those shiny new Krieg boxes somehow

thin ibex
#

yeah fair point

tepid stratus
#

That and they need to coincide their "every box needs a data sheet" internal rule without making it a reskin of the bombast fieldgun

tired cairn
#

Really good at killing heavy infantry

tepid stratus
#

Honestly it seems to be at the exact stats to mulch gravis marines now that you bring it up

#

T6, 3+ save, 3 wounds

#

Wounding on 2s, 5+ save roll to save or suck

#

Chosen and pissessed are another prime target

floral herald
#

I think they save on 4s because of cover if indirect but yeah

jagged dawn
tepid stratus
#

The coin toss save or suck is still pretty good for the potential cost in points difference

floral herald
# jagged dawn

I think it’s kinda funny that people are making noise about this now

#

I don’t think there’s been real ways to play most of those since the 3e book

jagged dawn
#

Probably to do with the fact they’re removing the generic “guardsmen squad” data sheet

#

And therefore if you’re playing guard you’re playing Cadia, Krieg, or Catachan

tepid stratus
#

Yup people aren't happy that they're forced to use explicitly themed datasheets

#

If your collection is all tallarn or vostroyans because you're a fanboy or an old head then have fun differentiating your catachans from your cadians

floral herald
#

They kinda made everyone cadians in 5e though

#

🤷 I’m not too fussed about the name I guess haha

tired cairn
# jagged dawn

Hey, you could run them as catchecans or Death Kreigg instead!

#

I do wish they used more generic names instead of planet based ones

#

Why are so many different groups in this one army lol

jagged dawn
#

Oh we’re not personally annoyed either since well, we like Krieg, and we’re going to play Krieg

#

But we can see how people would get annoyed

floral herald
jagged dawn
#

we’re literally reading a novel about DKoK for throne’s sake

tired cairn
#

Well, scale makes no sense in 40k so that can probably check out lol

#

Though I wonder if N years from now Guard will get the Space Marine treatment in terms of subfactions

jagged dawn
#

It’s by Steve Lyons, good read

unreal cosmos
#

Honestly I have some sympathy but like. What other faction is out there begging for totally separate kits for each subfaction

tired cairn
#

Eh, I think just them now?

#

Maybe Drukheri?

unreal cosmos
#

(okay Space Marines but ASIDE from the infamously entitled ones)

tired cairn
#

Oh, I totally misread that lol

unreal cosmos
#

No prob heh

tired cairn
#

The weird semi-faction thing going on with codex compliant chapters is very weird

unreal cosmos
#

I've had arguments in this very channel about whether White Scars models exist

tired cairn
#

I feel they should obliterate that and let the different space marine characters be super friends in the worst case. You can discourage that in other ways lol

#

(I also think each special chapter should have their own points list though lol)

thin ibex
#

i dont really mind the focused regimental names tbh, its good for the whole combined regiment vibe

tired cairn
#

They have at least one! Who is somehow not on a bike

tepid stratus
tired cairn
solemn gull
#

They should make a guard kit that’s just a human with a gun and a blob of green stuff /s

jagged dawn
#

quick aside, forgot how bad the catachan models look

My man upfront doesn't know what planet he's on

99120105040_JungleFightersNEW_01.png
unreal cosmos
tired cairn
#

I guess they are not getting a refresh this year

uneven ember
tired cairn
#

Since it's DKK in the box

tepid stratus
floral herald
#

I’d like it if basic legionaries could be taken in all the cult specific lists

#

Since a lot of them are not very well rounded out

tired cairn
#

Clearly artillery need their own special table to split the difference

bright dove
#

I'm not gonna lie, if I'm going into World Eaters, my goal is not a well rounded army. 😛

unreal cosmos
#

A lot of art also just shows IW as chaos guys with stripes

uneven ember
tepid stratus
tired cairn
unreal cosmos
#

Idk you don't see Eldar players going "Where's my Ulthuan Guardians?"

uneven ember
pulsar cairn
#

wixelsSit u can run berserkers, plague lads and etc in the black legion army right?

uneven ember
#

and then they did give the flyers a special table and it got cancelled because no one liked that euther 😢

tired cairn
tepid stratus
#

Because the only difference between ulthuan and ilyanden guardians is literally a colour choice

tired cairn
#

Flyers probably should have also been off-map callins

bright dove
tired cairn
#

They are getting them and they are sick

floral herald
#

The rules don’t favor them that much though

unreal cosmos
#

Yeah and meanwhile human players need three dozen Special Hat variants of their existing stuff

tired cairn
#

They don't get the faction rule right?

uneven ember
jagged dawn
tired cairn
#

I think having native cult marines datasheets in core CSM would make more sense than legionnaires in the cult marines indexes? But both would be good too

pulsar cairn
past sphinx
#

you cant dark pact cult marines either

#

witch is bullshit

tired cairn
#

Yeah, it's silly

past sphinx
#

i really dislike how CSM has turned into the goofy ahh loyalist marines

tired cairn
#

Ally rules are sometimes bizarre when you don't get pretty important Army rules for them

past sphinx
#

primarchs bah

tired cairn
#

Weren't they always that way?

desert jay
bright dove
#

No

jagged dawn
#

ah yes, autistic Krieg

Costellin looked up, surprised. He thought he had dismissed the Guardsman
who had brought in the slate. He recalled that, in fact, he had only made a
dismissive motion with his hand as he had settled into his reading. He ought to
have known better.
Costellin had spent almost thirty years – since he was a young man, barely out
of his thirties – assigned to the Death Korps of Krieg. If he had learned one thing
in those years, it was that Death Korps soldiers, on the whole, could not take
hints. They didn’t respond to body language or moods. They needed explicit
orders.```
bright dove
#

Well. No*

tired cairn
#

Well, after they stopped being space marines with more spikes

jagged dawn
#

this is also just, us

#

we do this

floral herald
#

Yeah not getting dark pacts is lame

tired cairn
#

How are Death Korps troops going to do spec ops if they don't understand hand signals!?

floral herald
#

But it does come with the upside of most of the unit list not being booty at least

desert jay
#

Like a dismissive wave of the hand is not a proper hand signal

tepid stratus
#

Yeah CSM explicitly cannot getcool weapons because of dark pacts

tired cairn
#

Though, in terms of not understanding scale, how did he make that mistake after spending nearly half his life leading them lol

tepid stratus
#

Our bolters, pistols and knives are worse and the rest are just reskinned generic marine wargear

tired cairn
floral herald
#

Outside of the reaper and that new minigun and some of the daemon engines

jagged dawn
#

Also tbf Lyons even if his own novels isn’t always consistent with how “robotic” Krieg troopers are

desert jay
#

If you do like the fist pump for "go" and then point at the door I bet they'll get that

bright dove
#

For all that CSM are their own thing, they are still Space Marines.

tepid stratus
jagged dawn
tepid stratus
#

Give me daemon shell bolters or something with some kick

tired cairn
#

Krieg probably shouldn't be too, too robotic. They aren't skitarii (and even then, skitarii are still people and only really robotic when being assumed direct controlled by a tech priest)

floral herald
#

The krieg robotic stuff is kinda fan lore flanderization I think

#

It was less of a thing when Vraks was published

jagged dawn
#

Funnily enough Warriors of Ultramar has really good Krieg characterization

desert jay
#

Join Black Legion! We got all the classics, tactical marines legionnaires, devastators havocs, assault marines raptors, terminators, dreadnoughts, rhinos, bikers...

jagged dawn
#

Mainly because they crack jokes

tepid stratus
jagged dawn
#

And are like, soldiers not automata

desert jay
tepid stratus
#

The days when we had drop pods and could slap sonic weapons on shit like candy

floral herald
#

They’re still around they’re just Edgenoughts now

tepid stratus
#

The good old days

tepid stratus
jagged dawn
uneven ember
floral herald
#

I think it was 6e

tired cairn
#

It's a bit dark, but the silent compliance of an extremely abused child would probably fit DKK well :/

floral herald
#

That’s when helbrutes were added but I think both were just legal for a while

past sphinx
#

and landraiders

#

but only the lascannon one

uneven ember
#

well that was the only land raider

desert jay
#

Captains? Chaos Lords! Librarians? Sorcerers! Techmarines? Warpsmiths! Chaplains? Dark Apostles! Apothecaries? Um...

uneven ember
#

then Templars got our own because we're special

tepid stratus
#

Honestly just rip the bandaid off and make the hellbrutes daemon engines at this point. At least then they'll get an invuln save to be mildly tougher instead of an objectively worse redemptor

tepid stratus
tired cairn
#

You know, given how CSM actually care a bit about living, you'd think they'd have better apothecaries. Though maybe no one wants to be operated on by someone who has been listening the dark gods that much lol

desert jay
floral herald
#

It’s a legacy thing, though Helbrutes are pretty decent atm with the auras

tired cairn
#

Are demons put in hellbrutes?

floral herald
#

No but they’re pretty warped now

tired cairn
#

Or do they just torture the guy inside

floral herald
#

They’re basically dreadnoughts but they don’t sleep mode them and the fella inside is very mad

tired cairn
#

Technically not demons™

floral herald
#

And they’re all mutated now

bright dove
#

Add in the lack of sensations, and CSM Dreads tend to be pretty.... Loopy.

desert jay
#

I guess Chaos Spawn don't get the keyword either

uneven ember
#

But yeah for all people have been asking GW for "Traitor Guard" lists for a quarter-century
I think they've decided "Dudes" "Spiky Dudes" factions are enough of a headache to make distinct enough to justify with CM/CSM and they really don't want to give themselves that problem again

tired cairn
#

Not sleep moding them seems needlessly cruel lol

tepid stratus
tired cairn
#

I feel they should have a chaos guard detachment though

bright dove
tired cairn
#

A lot of chaos guard don't have time to put the spikes on anyways I'm sure

bright dove
#

Warp mutations you don't know about until you wake somebody up are also worse than the ones you already know about.

desert jay
floral herald
tired cairn
desert jay
#

Traitor Guardsman squad get battleline, you can take guard vehicles, and I guess orders as detach rule

tepid stratus
floral herald
tired cairn
desert jay
#

Oh, or that

bright dove
#

Yeah, that's the funny bit about CSM that gets ignored sometimes: They don't get the supply lines that Space Marines have.

floral herald
#

Usually chaos dreads are piloted by traitors to the warband or people who swung at the lord and missed

bright dove
#

They've got different stuff, sure.

thin ibex
#

the iron warriors do a lot of supplying dont they?

bright dove
#

Yep.

tired cairn
tepid stratus
bright dove
#

But I would like to remind everyone that the Night Lords have to steal so much shit from other CSM legions to function.

tepid stratus
#

Red corsairs have an entire functioning economy

desert jay
#

Also I keep forgetting that Obliterators are from 1999

bright dove
#

Also, you try telling the World Eaters that they need to work on their supplies.

floral herald
tired cairn
bright dove
#

Oh, quite a few things. It's just they will never have as much as the Imperium.

tired cairn
#

Hellbrutes probably suffer from the new dreads scale creeping the old dreads

uneven ember
bright dove
#

Pirate lords need a lot of infrastructure, as it turns out.

tired cairn
#

Maybe that's just for fun

uneven ember
#

(I still feel like GW missed a great opportunity by not having them talk in Pirate Voice)

#

("Yarr, I be Huron Blackheart! Avast, ye scurvy void dogs!")

tired cairn
#

You get your advanced economy so you can raid without worrying about actually getting a decent haul

jagged dawn
tired cairn
uneven ember
#

(He's even got the critter sidekick)

bright dove
#

That, and Huron was a spreadsheet organizer even before he defected.

#

Like, him reorganizing an entire sector to be profitable in terms of resources was what directly led to the Badab War.

tepid stratus
tepid stratus
tired cairn
#

I'm not a big fan of scale creep, but it's probably justified for some CSM stuff at this point (plus they have already been doing it)

tepid stratus
#

Even as a traitor and adversary to Abaddon he's running a mini empire on par to the black legion in strength

bright dove
#

But yeah, I am amused by the mental image of a Khornate Warlord or Slaaneshi-dedicated group trying to figure out logistics.

tired cairn
#

I would prefer it just be a remodel than a new unit, but I don't have skin in that particular game

bright dove
#

I also don't trust Tzeentch folks making supply lines for a second.

tired cairn
#

I like how WE have a decent apothecary corp

tepid stratus
tired cairn
tepid stratus
#

The concept of dreadnoughts in game has moved beyond where the hellbrutes stand is all

bright dove
#

... Oh god, I think I do trust Nurgle worshippers and their supply lines.

tepid stratus
#

I think we're underestimating the logistics that go into orgy planning

tired cairn
uneven ember
#

(I liked Badab War enough that I worked it into my BT army's fluff)
(still unsure if my Marshal should still use the Fraeter Tyrannum title like Henry VIII did with "Defender of the Faith")

bright dove
#

The Badab War is very neat.

tired cairn
#

I trust the Slaanash logistics. Excess in all things. The food might be laced with psychedelics though

bright dove
#

I also know that Khornates can do logistics, thanks to them doing it over in AoS.

pulsar cairn
#

What's the badab war again?

tired cairn
#

There are probably some Khornate pencil pushers that argue their job is very important for getting more skulls and blood

bright dove
#

There's a whole hero unit who's non-battlefield job is making weapons.

#

They literally attach a chain to their anvil and use that as their primary weapon.

tired cairn
#

I wonder if WE use non-nailed serfs for logistics

past sphinx
bright dove
#

"Yeah yeah, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows. But the longer we can do it without being part of that, the better."

tired cairn
#

Or maybe people get the right emotional reaction from imagining all the blood shed they will do from their perfectly organized spreadsheets

floral herald
uneven ember
# pulsar cairn What's the badab war again?

The Lamenters, Mantis Warriors, and Astral Claws--three Chapters who were based around the Maelstrom, the #2 warp rift in the galaxy after the EoT--got into a tax dispute when they said they were gonna stop paying taxes and use their sector's wealth to cleanse the Maelstrom
this turned into the biggest intra-Space Marine war since the Horus heresy and ended with the Chapter Master of the Astral Claws, Lugft Huron, fleeing into the Maelstrom with what was left of his Chapter to start the Red Corsairs Chaos Marines

pulsar cairn
tired cairn
tired cairn
uneven ember
bright dove
#

I imagine that a Khornate Pencil-Pusher does something like the Ossiarch's Bone Tithe.

solemn gull
solemn gull
tepid stratus
bright dove
#

But yeah, I dread thinking about World Eater logistics.

#

Because that's seperate from Khornate logistics.

#

Because how do you take the time to do that while you have the Nails?

solemn gull
#

Maybe there’s a khorne worshipper who is a real team player and manages logistics so more wars happen

#

Like they don’t get to participate but they are still causing bloodshed

uneven ember
floral herald
bright dove
#

Smells like Slaanesh in here now.

floral herald
#

Not a jest that’s just how WE support elements function - extensive use of painkillers and downers to stay functional

uneven ember
bright dove
#

But I do love the idea of a World Eater having a brief moment of clarity about their supplies and then getting stoned out of their mind in order to do it.

solemn gull
#

The “help me budget” meme but all the money is spent on chain axes

tepid stratus
bright dove
#

Oh my god.

#

The World Eaters are so dysfunctional.

#

I am amazed Perty was able to drive them to the siege.

#

I know the Iron Warriors refuse to let menials manage their supply lines.

uneven ember
#

again, "we have people for that" is the backbone of Loyalist and Chaos logistics.
just a silly heavy metal SFF version of the thing from real military warrior-aristocracy where every Spartiate or kinght were going everywhere except (sometimes) the actual battlefield with a support staff that wasn't even mentioned in the accounts becaue they weren't considered real people by anyone involved

bright dove
#

Based on what I've heard about the Night Lords, I'm unsure how much they even think about supply lines

uneven ember
#

"1) steal shit 2) goto: 1"

solemn gull
#

The supply lines are their enemies and dead colleagues

tired cairn
#

Oh, so the Blood Ravens are actually a Night Lords successor chapter

bright dove
#

I feel pretty sure you'd get a confused stare from NightvLord commanders if you tried to talk to them about it.

uneven ember
#

you do get a few SMs where "steal shit" is their supply line.
Not just CSM, the Space Sharks do the same

tepid stratus
jagged dawn
#

this conversation is reminding us just how much we like renegade factions/groups that aren't chaos

solemn gull
#

Renegades are cool

jagged dawn
#

the three Rs, Renegades, Revolts, and Rebellions

Made better when they've got a good reason to break away that isn't "this tentacle guy said his gods were cool"

#

side note, what is the point of selecting anything but plasma pistols for units who can carry them?

#

they all get the same number of attacks, all have the same bs, all have the same range

floral herald
#

Usually there isn’t one since this is a free wargear edition

tepid stratus
#

Absolutely none because gear is free and GW can't balance things around that

floral herald
#

Otherwise it’s usually because you pay 10-15 pts for a plasma pistol

tepid stratus
#

It's why bolt pistols should probably get an extra shot or something to compensate

paper bluff
#

I'm working on getting my forgery world custodes dreadnoughts for that new detachment

#

I do want to try it

tired cairn
#

GW balanced some choices around wargear being free. Plasma pistols isn't one of those

#

(And taking something is almost always better than not taking something)

jagged dawn
#

Feels weird to not have any incentive to take bolt pistols since they’re pretty iconic for guard

#

How else are you to perform “in field tribunals”?

floral herald
#

That’s funny I really have not considered bolt pistols very iconic for the guard haha

tired cairn
#

I think it is iconic for commissars

tepid stratus
#

Commissars with stub revolvers would be way cooler IMO

floral herald
tired cairn
tepid stratus
#

Comedicaly big

jagged dawn
#

Our introduction to guard was through the Yarrick novels so that’s probably where our vision comes from

floral herald
#

Also the Final Liberation commissar

tired cairn
#

oh wow, 90s FMV is a vibe

#

I am very confused at this music choice

hard whale
#

As Ciaphas Cain would tell you, bolt pistols are iconic but the laspistol is much more practical

finite compass
tepid stratus
#

True that

finite compass
#

Just because the Exalted and later Talos were canny enough to understand that they were both vital to the running of the ship and hard to replace

tired cairn
#

"Do you know how hard it is to kidnap a trained ship crew without them all dying for the emperor or some nonsense?"

finite compass
#

There's a bit where an ex-Red Corsair crewman is stammering and hesitating, only for Talos to sort of roll his eyes and bluntly tell him that "I'm not going to kill you just because you gave me irritating news."

uneven ember
#

it's a valid concern

finite compass
#

Especially because ex Red Corsair

#

his previous masters would ABSOLUTELY do that

uneven ember
#

I still love Abby's "Failed Me For The Last Time" special rules in BFG

tired cairn
#

It's so good

finite compass
#

Yes

tired cairn
#

I particularly love it how he just fumes at them if they aren't in range

finite compass
#

And if it's his own ship that botches the reroll it loses hull points

tired cairn
#

lol

finite compass
#

Because he sends his Terminators to massacre everybody who pissed him off

tired cairn
#

leadership should have gone down because he has to replace the command crew

finite compass
#

Well it's HIS Leadership

#

The whole thing that triggers it is if a ship fails a leadership roll and then fails Abby's ld. 10 reroll

#

So you have to fuck up twice, one of which at ld. 10

tired cairn
#

Oh yeah, but if he killed the bridge crew, his ship's effective leadership would be less is what I am saying. But breaking the ship in a fit of rage works too

finite compass
#

TBF if one of my ships failed a ld. 10 reroll, I'd be pissed too

tired cairn
#

These are my favorite GW rules though. Funny and flavourful without being too obnoxious

finite compass
#

The old Catachan "Oops, Sorry Sir" Commissar rule

jagged dawn
# jagged dawn the three Rs, Renegades, Revolts, and Rebellions Made better when they've got a...

Which is why Shadowsword is a good novel because that rebellion starts due to the governor of a planet refusing to pay the Imperial Tithe because they physically can’t. Everyone of fighting age has been scooped up by the guard for the Mancharian Crusade and the only people left aren’t enough to meet the Exacta when the Munitorum comes knocking. Has a good line during the scene where the governor refuses too

floral herald
#

Been a while since I listened

finite compass
#

Roll a d6 for every Commissar in the list. On a 1, they've had an 'unfortunate accident' and can't be used for the battle.

finite compass
uneven ember
finite compass
#

Most are your standard variety of cultists, heretics, and what have you

jagged dawn
finite compass
#

And then there's a planetary governor who's plotting secession because the Administratum abitrarily increased his planet's Tithe and he can't make it without essentially destroying the world.

jagged dawn
#

Chaos does show up eventually because, Chaos (specifically slaanesh if we recall) but the revolt initially starts out as something entirely reasonable

IMG_7314.png
#

The emotionless calculations of a machine thousands of light years away says they can pay, so they are asked to pay. It doesn’t matter what the actual situation is

tired cairn
#

Not a whole lot of other choices for allies unfortunately

#

Also I wouldn't be surprised if they were lost in the warp and then all showed up at the same time. Or someone forgot to carry a one

jagged dawn
#

It’s specifically because of the governors son if we recall. He gets seduced because he wants to bang his…aunt? I think

tired cairn
#

lol, there is a revolt due to heavy taxation. And also Slaanash shows up for unrelated reasons

tepid stratus
#

Slaanesh was just trying to play matchmaker and found an opportunity in the process

tired cairn
#

That Slaanashi demon must have been pretty happy about the payday it stumbled into

jagged dawn
#

Yep

jagged dawn
#

The invasion is basically a net loss as well. They demand 50k men, don’t get it, and so they divert entire fleets and Titan detachments to invade only for chaos to show up

tired cairn
#

tbh, you'd think this would happen enough to tithing fleets they would be more flexible about it

#

Maybe that guy was a particular ass though

uneven ember
#

The Imperium of Mankind: Bad At Things

tired cairn
jagged dawn
#

It is yeah

#

“Defy us and these are the consequences”

uneven ember
tired cairn
#

Fair

jagged dawn
topaz hinge
#

Can't find the image rn

jagged dawn
desert jay
#

Hammer of the Emperor gives tanks beeg advances

#

Also someone was asking about artillery team keywords, yeah it has infantry and regiment

finite compass
#

With the new stuff, I might actually take the plunge and do some Krieg

#

Just because that new artillery and the Death Riders are chef's kiss

desert jay
#

Rogal Dorn CMDR gets double orders, oh boy

tired cairn
#

Is it a new model or just a thing you can make the current model into?

desert jay
#

I think you can just take the normal model as CMDR, like the Leman Russes

hard whale
#

you could put a little guy poking out of it if you wanted to

#

or just paint a flag on the side

desert jay
#

Or paint chevrons, or put a cool banner on the top, yeah

floral herald
#

Trying to think of a good tagline

#

There’s so many possibilities

upper canopy
#

Ultramine Wanking? C'mon you should be used to this since 9th.

pulsar cairn
#

how does one prepare a commissar to work with units that are super specialized like the flying lads or the catachans?

#

do they like just give them the minimum and best of luck?

runic swallow
#

Well, they would presumably have to be trained enough to keep up with them

#

Though for the catachans they don’t tend to last long due to “mysterious accidents” and “unfortunate enemy fire”

upper canopy
#

Progenium troops get assigned years in advance and receive basically all the same special training they'd need.

pulsar cairn
narrow urchin
#

Didn't want both scout snipers to have the same pose so I did a little surgery to remove the suppressor and sling the second sniper rifle.

20250108_152712.jpg 20250109_143336.jpg
mild glen
#

Official Kreig drop looks fun. The Multiple Rocket Launcher statblock for the HWT is funny (because strength 2 is inherently funny). Grenediers look spicy.

tired cairn
#

🤔 Are there any strength 1 weapons?

mild glen
#

5+ to wound against grots!

runic swallow
#

What are grots melee strength

tired cairn
#

My guess is 2

#

Grots are toughness 3?

mild glen
#

S2, according to waha

tired cairn
#

Ripper Swarms are somehow strength 2 melee

uneven ember
runic swallow
#

God I love those men’s adventure magazine covers

#

They’re so dumb

mild glen
# tired cairn Grots are toughness 3?

I missed this. Gretchin are T2. the "5+ to wound" was me joking about a theoretical S1 weapons (even though, as I type this now, I realize that would actually make it a 6+ to wound against 'em)

pulsar cairn
#

Anyone ever tried taming a nid? I feel like an ork would

#

Probably not the craziest thing considering Drukhari actually manage to torture souless necron soldiers

runic swallow
#

Theres a whole Imperial Armor book (The Anphelion Project) about why that is a great idea that will definitely cause no issues and is totally not Tyranid Jurassic Park

jaunty dawn
#

drukhari try

#

I don't think they really succeed but they find the failures amusing so it's all good

#

at least the ones who survive do

pulsar cairn
#

I thought they used them as beasts at their fighting pits

finite compass
#

They do.

pulsar cairn
finite compass
#

But then again, Tyranids are probably not the most horrifically dangerous things to show up in Drukhari colosseums

pulsar cairn
#

True

#

Galaxy is a pretty big place

#

Lots of scary fauna to be gathered

finite compass
#

not even Fauna

#

3e DE could have 'Warp Beasts' tag along with Wyches

#

That were explicitly summoned and enslaved as gladiatorial fodder

#

Now they're 'Kymera' apparently

pulsar cairn
#

vicksyHeck not even warp horrors are safe from them?

runic swallow
finite compass
#

TBF they're uningelligent warp gribblies and not like