Warhammer and Such

[rocky harness]

4 digits for the body

Then the arms, and weapo s are sold separately

[grand vigil]

Tf, is the titan a DLC???

[paper bluff]

Well 3000 point model

It's more a "look what I own" move

[paper bluff]

It is easily.... 1 dollar per point model

[sonic hare]

wtf

[grand vigil]

This is the kinda greed you'd see in the Bible

[tired cairn]

GW does have a really high net profit margin (28%). Though they also apparently don't do tax avoidance shenanigans and do some profit sharing

[upper bluff]

Honestly I'm fine with the titans being so expensive. They're just kinda like collectors items (also the warlord is the size of a toddler so)

[tired cairn]

I wonder what the net profit on the warlord Titans have been. Part of the reason resin is expensive is that it is more labor intensive per unit than injection molding

[past sphinx]

Titans are basically hand crafted

[thin ibex]

The Warlord titan can't even be played competitively, it being hella expensive makes sense because not only is it massive, demand is extremely low, so stock never goes particularly high

No one needs a Warlord titan and very few people actually buy them

[bright dove]

Only people deep into the hobby will have one, and it is basically for display.

[pastel rampart]

Or the one Apocalypse game they have every five years that goes to the bottom of turn 2 after 6 hours and everyone goes home.

[polar crag]

As a mech lover, I dont know why I dont vibe with Knights

[tired cairn]

They don't look like most mechs

[polar crag]

I love Battletech and they're more of a gothic battletech, but I just dont care for them for some reason

Like I'd love an Atlas painted like a knight, but not a knight painted like an Atlas

[tired cairn]

I feel most mechs aesthetics are either fast and elegant; or brutal and practical. And then Knights are neither of those

[pulsar cairn]

Is Guilliman a good dad?

[floral herald]

No

[pulsar cairn]

i figured

[tired cairn]

There are no good dads in 40k

[jaunty dawn]

vespids are not going too well

I think I probably wasnt aggro enough tbh

also not really spending my communion well turn 2

[pulsar cairn]

there's a cute one from the mechanicum tho

[past sphinx]

Gilligan did have a good mom though

[uneven ember]

Yeah, like
It's a model that exists because lol wouldn't it be wild if we made a Warlord Titan from our 8mm scale game for 40K size
Purchased by people who feel that lol wouldn't it be wild to own a Warlord Titan for my 40K collection

[jaunty dawn]

thing is when superheavies started being made the idea of using them in a game wasnt even on the table

fw didnt start making rules till 3e's vehicle builder came out

[floral herald]

Wow nice

[jaunty dawn]

officially it was a draw but my opponent forgot to use a cp reroll and should've won by 2 points

cause Id be down a kill grade

and they wouldve gotten an extra point from having a higher one

vespids are very scary but 5+ save with only one survival ability is pretty fragile even with 9 wounds each

i think the play is to be aggressive from the beginning and use aerial agility to deny trades

since generally people need to move + shoot turn 1

by turn 2 you really wanna be so in the opponents face that theyre not gonna give it to you I think

very consistent offensively between warriors having access to accuracy, easy exploitation of vantage, balance from a strategic ploy

plus piercing all day

even the sniper can dash shoot

communion wasnt that much of a concern, between your leader and the convergence equipment you're kinda sorted objectives wise

so have a handful for other things

[paper bluff]

Full of fatherless behavior as a setting

You know the saying "if you want peace prepare for war"? 40k has the war happening and no one (aside maybe the tau and necrons. Yes technically the tyranids have a plan but that's move to the next one) have a plan for the peace

Tzeetch also maybe but his plan is more plans

[tired cairn]

Not many factions want peace in 40k though

[paper bluff]

Leagues, craft/ exodite/ harlequin eldar, tau for sure, necrons but that's in a subservient for everyone else way, tyranids don't care, gman would love peace but no for the imperium as a whole

[desert jay]

Unless you mean a very specific sort of peace where all their enemies are dead

In which case, everyone but Tyranids and Orks

[paper bluff]

Hang on quick thought, you think the clown God would want Ynnead because he wants a friend again?

I think eldar and humans, huge huge huge caveat on it, have a peace together

We know in the past they did

[paper bluff]

By this i mean it is theoretically possible, not likely but theory

[polar crag]

That's it

They're not sleek, and they're not practical

I guess that's why I gravitate towards guard tanks

[thin ibex]

i dont think you need to justify your tastes tbh, like i dont really see guard tanks as particularly practical for example, but I do think they're cool

i feel like knights kinda evoke classic terminator hunch

[tired cairn]

To retreat into my Motte, very few factions who want peace want something that would be terribly compatible with the other factions that also want peace. But I was probably being too flippant lol

[thin ibex]

I think wanting peace might be a bit nebuluous, like Tau want piece after all factions and races are brought under the umbrella of the greater good. Which necessitates a galaxy wide campaign of conquering and bloodshed

diplomacy first, yes, but if that doesn't work, they're no stranger to pulling the pulse rifle right after

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

tau want to expand

and don't care about peace to do so

and like as soon as they had the galaxy they'd be figuring out how to get to new ones

[thin ibex]

they prefer there isn't a fight and that you just want to join their empire. They don't require that you join peacefully

[jaunty dawn]

deldar detachment is cute

feels like the biggest limitation is killing stuff with harlequins

oh no wait they're half your army not a quarter. probably fine then

[tired cairn]

Also one of the detachments it is competing with (Realspace Raid) has barely any detachment rule

I suspect I undervalue strats in evaluating detachments personally. Having listened to people better at the game review these grotmas ones

[polar crag]

They're not irl practical, but they look rugged and beat up, just like battletech mechs or IPSN

[deft crest]

I love this rat

[paper bluff]

What is the best gw "little guy" you think?

[bright dove]

Nurglings

[paper bluff]

Which nurgling

[thin ibex]

makari

[pulsar cairn]

If warhammer was made for kids

Would drukhari just be pranksters?

had this thought because of this one ww1 mech board game i have who has a kids version

[thin ibex]

i think theyd yeah, be the devious pranksters who show up randomly and maybe get taught a family friendly lesson occassionally

Get scared off by some sort of "Swiper no swiping!" equivalent

[pulsar cairn]

sounds about right

[runic swallow]

Best rat, 11/10, he’s doing a very good job, I hope no one schemes against him and his schemes go well.

[meager quail]

In the grim darkness of Saturday morning, there is only friendship

[runic swallow]

Sassy helmet nurgling for me

Honestly you could probably have a pretty good fairy trickster archetype DEldar where they’re trying to steal your voice or something

Really I just enjoy the Fae archetype that only occasionally shows up in their stuff, like how they had a special item many editions ago that was a mirror the archon would shatter to shatter anyone reflected in it

[dense sedge]

I love the reaper’s wager thematically but it doesn’t actually interact with its rule that much

[runic swallow]

What is that?

[glad spear]

The new Grotmas Drukhari detachment

You run both Harlequinns and Drukhari and have this cool wager system where you can have certain models reroll 1s if they're "losing"

[dense sedge]

I missed the Errol oops

[rocky shale]

Kinda a shame that this Aeldari vehicle detachment is gonna line up with a lot of FW vehicles going to legends with the codex

Leaves only like 4 tanks and 2 of them are transports

None of them really want assault

War walkers with assault is kinda funny tho

[tired cairn]

It lacks a bit of flavor

[rocky shale]

That too

It would be really solid on a faction that wanted to get closer with tanks

But like a fire prism doesn't need to move 18" and shoot

[thin ibex]

To be fair, 4 tanks means you can field like 12 of them

[tepid stratus]

So I've been roped into a tournament this weekend. I'm running a scions guard horde with no tanks

This'll be fuuuun

[rocky shale]

Yeah tho they don't benefit from the detachment rule enough to bother

Indirect + assault on night spinners lol

[thin ibex]

gotta rely on those +1 wound out of transports for vehicle stomping eh?

[tepid stratus]

It's reroll wound rolls but my valks got lascannons and tauroxes have missile racks. Also threw in a heavy lascannons ordinance team

My list has 100 infantry models on the dot

[thin ibex]

hell yeah

let us know how that goes, sounds fun

personally im a fan of the heavy lascannon

[tepid stratus]

It might be neat

I'll keep you posted. With 70 of my troops being scions and aquillons I'm hoping to just win on scoring

[thin ibex]

I feel like hyper fast melee will be your bane

Tangent but

[tepid stratus]

Good thing most my troops start off the table in deep strike and transports

[past sphinx]

How is spikey bits alive

Tabletop tabloid is such a weird niche

[jaunty dawn]

seo I guess

[past sphinx]

hating gw is a wing of the hobby i guess might as well go pro and just lie

[jaunty dawn]

TIL that the dire avenger twin shuriken catapult isnt like

a twin linked catapult

its a guy dual wielding rifles

this is very silly

[past sphinx]

sick as hell*

[pastel rampart]

Gotta John Woo that shit.

[jaunty dawn]

positively ridiculous

the avenger shuriken catapults are even like, full length

almost as long as they are tall

[pastel rampart]

Presumably they're made out of wraithbone so they're probably light.

[jaunty dawn]

and then the striking scorpion guy has twin chainswords as well as twin pistols mounted on his wrists

on top of face guns

banshees can dual wield a boomerang with a pistol which was also a thing in warframe for a bit before they properly figured out dual wielding

like there was a dual wielding system in the game but it only worked with the boomerang melee weapons

or like sword/pistol stuff I mean

[tired cairn]

New Ork detachment is neat. They get Orders

[junior robin]

Another detachment that don't work with my army

Sounds like the most fun though so time to get some tubing and build some rocketpacks.

[tired cairn]

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't need stormboyz to make it work. But jump infantry are really good right now regardless

[floral herald]

I like how the ork tactical brigade works out to a bunch of yelling and rocket propelled orks

[tired cairn]

I like how they actually do drills with their ranged weapons, but a boss has to yell at them for them to remember their training

[paper bluff]

I should finish building my other set of venatarii

[tired cairn]

I know for a while they were popular. I don't know if Custosdes still like them

[past sphinx]

They're still excellent objective grabbers

[paper bluff]

I've already got one set built with the spears so I might as well

[polar crag]

Boyz hitting on 4s seems scary

[tired cairn]

Flash gitz hitting on 4 rerolling everything scare me

Oh, interesting. Apparently a new game director was hired by GW 9 months ago. Possibly specifically for 40k?

[paper bluff]

Is a coronus grav carriers worth it i wonder

[tired cairn]

I don't think I have ever heard anyone talk about them lol

Custodes infantry shooting is merely ok right? So the Fire Support part is maybe a bit eh. A Land Raider is also only 40 points more and gives you assault ramp and better weapons (but no invul)

It is pretty funny to me that the regular custodes tanks get Martial Ka'tah

[plucky token]

Martial Ka’tah - Tank-fu Form

[thin ibex]

They just tape a Spear or a sword to the side of the tank

[past sphinx]

Pound for pound the las cannons alone are worth the extra

In my experience

[thin ibex]

lascanons on a land raider are so very nice

hard to get rid of, consistent firepower

[past sphinx]

And stodes have basically no antitank

[past sphinx]

Short of meltas spears basically

Or dreads

[thin ibex]

their AT is volume/lethals + baseline AP and multi damage attacks

in melee

and terminators with castellan axes

[past sphinx]

And the tank

Hence why it's tanks tanks tanks all day

[jaunty dawn]

oh I love ork detachment

the leader enhancements are so fun

[floral herald]

That one is a banger

Tempting me to buy green'

[jaunty dawn]

stormboyz and kommandos is a vibe

need to bring back chinorks

they even remembered to let you order when you dismount!

or deep strike

[floral herald]

orks are made for fighting and winning

[jaunty dawn]

dat's ours (oc bonus if in combat stratagem) seems good though I think the timing (command phase) holds it back

unless I'm not understanding when points are scored in 10th cause I haven't played it much lol

oh wait I think you can use it in the enemy command phase

[plucky token]

point scoring in 10th is (generally) at the end of the command phase, iirc

so yeh, this one should work for helping to score on either command phase. could be handy

[jaunty dawn]

flipping objectives gud

[jagged dawn]

https://x.com/siegestudios/status/1867845743265919308?s=46&t=oWW_NnXMz5xZU9SUUTq01g

Siege Studios (@SiegeStudios) on X

An awesome converted Astra Militarum commission which was really fun to work on and paint. The split dark green and blue / grey scheme worked really nicely and was a great choice from our client.

For a quote or to book your commission:
https://t.co/jwbtgJUCD5

A head change on

Twitter · Dec 14, 2024, 8:15 AM

[upper canopy]

Is the ork detachment good for bad moons

[jaunty dawn]

one squad of flash gitz gets to attach a mekboss

or big mek even?

and gets reroll hits

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1868103556211101913

WOLFDAWG ART (@WolfdawgArt) on X

Mouse Guard

#WarhammerCommunity #warhammer40k #mouseguard

Twitter · Dec 15, 2024, 1:19 AM

[tired cairn]

The New detachment is decent for shooty orks because of the +1 to hit

[desert jay]

My question about if it says "Warboss or Mek model only", is that any character with the Warboss or Mek keyword, or is it specifically about the ones named Warboss and Mek?

Can I put Skwad Leader on WB in Mega Armor or a Beastboss?

[jaunty dawn]

latter I believe

which is um

[desert jay]

Okay per the comp subreddit, consensus seems to be keyword

[jaunty dawn]

wild

the beastboss on squigosaur has the keyword

[desert jay]

Yeah, so does the Deffkilla Wartrike

[jaunty dawn]

so it might get errata'd to like, warboss infantry if they care about that

the tricky thing is the warboss doesnt technically have his own like. name

[desert jay]

Non-infantry does hurt a bit b/c they can't do some stuff like go through walls

[jaunty dawn]

so idk if there is a templated way to refer to just thst profile

[desert jay]

But the concept of this guy having infiltrator and stealth is hilarious

[jaunty dawn]

the mek enhancement is worded differently since theres no big mek keyword

while like the last enhancement which can be taken by regular meks uses the same wording of warboss so

[dense sedge]

what faction remain for grotmas? My gsc haven't got anything yet, and astra are tomorow

[jaunty dawn]

sisters I think

[dense sedge]

votan right

daemons

[jaunty dawn]

world eaters

[dense sedge]

custodes

[jaunty dawn]

and thousand sons

[dense sedge]

sons got theirs

[jaunty dawn]

i forgor

d

custodes got one too

tau need one I think

yeah

[desert jay]

Sisters, Guard, Daemons, World Eaters, GSC, Votann, Tau

Plus maybe Space Wolves and Blood Angels since Dark Angels got one

[jaunty dawn]

iirc that matches with the number they gave

[desert jay]

(And maybe Emp Children too since they're technically an army?)

[jaunty dawn]

that would be kinda nice

[desert jay]

It's gonna be weird tho b/c it'll have to assume Dark Pacts until EC gets a real army rule, and then will presumably have the EC army rule

Also back on Taktikal Brigade, "gob boomer" is a very funny name for an Ork vox caster

[sonic hare]

KICK FLIP 45,000'

[faint galleon]

The primarchs would shred so hard

[crisp lance]

https://fixupx.com/mossacannibalis/status/1868260268075315352/photo/1

nightsider family

[pulsar cairn]

What's a nightsider?

[grand vigil]

Abhuman

Lives underground I think

[pulsar cairn]

Oooh

Cute

Are they tolerated the same way Ogryns and ratlings are?

[past sphinx]

Isn't that a loli guro artist?

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

[cinder wraith]

huh

what

[pastel rampart]

It's exactly what you think it is.

[cinder wraith]

i dont fucking know

i was scrolling and like "ah, adorable :>" and then that message slapped me like a truck

curse of literacy i guess

[pulsar cairn]

I would like to go home now

[past sphinx]

It is i, here to close down the tavern with my knowledge of terrible warhammer creators

[mild glen]

I don't know what a "guro" is, but the word in front of it is... not inspiring confidence

[past sphinx]

There isn't any way to describe it without getting time out

[mild glen]

I'll open an incognito window, then

reading through the list
You know, fir some reason, I don't think we're talking about the Phillipino equivalent of Sensei or Sifu...

[mental birch]

HEHEHE

I FORTOLD SO

[cinder wraith]

i cant forsee but let me be clear

world eaters detachment will somehow be worse

in a bad way that makes them annoying to play with

[mild glen]

If my (grav) chute don't open wide! I got another one by my side!

[tired cairn]

Hey, one one guardsman falls, 10 more take his place

I find it funny that the new guard detachment has a strat to call a strafing run on a friendly unit's position, but no strategem to call in a strafing run on a position that isn't danger close to friendlies

[floral herald]

fuck them guardsmen
The imperial navy, apparently

[pulsar cairn]

[junior robin]

what if a christmas miracle happens and world eaters finally gets their lore-accurate tank company detachment?

[paper bluff]

I always imagined it was a "running in the 90's" slide to hit someone

I hope custodes get a secret level treatment cause yeah, in lore a space marine is exactly like that. Then also custodes are a magnitude above that

There is a whole thing where a custode will go out and protect a person that has some point of important destiny

Does that mean there would be a

Moment with a regular ass human?

Yes.

[jaunty dawn]

drop troop imperial guard detachment???

oh

no just a stormtrooper one

[floral herald]

Ok read up on the flavor for this haha

This strat rules

They’re circling “in case the attack falters”

[tired cairn]

Help before the attack falters? Nah

[jaunty dawn]

imperial navy is just mad that the tempestus take valkyries and vultures that are rightfully theirs

[solemn gull]

This design is very Skaven

[tired cairn]

The Imperium is Skaven, but instead of funny verbal tics, they have cringe phrases

[mild glen]

"Sorry, our bombs are only ever able to target friendlies. We need you in bayonet range of the target"

The Imperium would be genuinely terrifying on a setting wide level if its logistics were on point and it cared about its people.

[uneven ember]

it's called "healthy interservice rivalry"

[jaunty dawn]

just applying the current gw corporate structure of silo'd departments to the imperial army

[uneven ember]

also, yes, I love that Valkyries and Vultures are by default Imperial Navy craft
they absolutely should not be

[jaunty dawn]

if the navy support the troops too soon, the army gets the credit and the funding

[muted elm]

the greatest enemy of the Imperial Navy is not xenos or heretics vessels

it is the imperial guard

[zinc field]

the army only gets transports and rotary winged aircraft

[uneven ember]

right
the Vulture and Valkyrie set-up is equivalent to rotary winged aircraft, and the Valkyrie specifically is a troop transport.
They're infantry support by design and function and they should absolutely be organic to Guard organization but instead they're all detached Navy craft

because the Imperium of Mankind isn't good at things

[past sphinx]

This is the one time they did it intentionally

Don't want a random general with the power over tens of thousands AND the power to move them where ever he wants

[uneven ember]

True!
I think my point holds in the case where "the IoM is bad at things on purpose" but, yeah, it's not that they can't figure out why this is stupid, they're deliberately sabotaging their effectiveness.

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like outside of combat use of airborne most of the imperial guard are gonna be shuttled around in like arvus lighters

so idk what the navy even uses valkyries for really

breachers I guess

[past sphinx]

If it Flys its navy if it rolls its gaurds

[floral herald]

Devourers and Tetrarchs are the norm for landers but they don’t get models in 28mm games

[past sphinx]

ORBITAL DROP CATHEDRALS BABY

[zinc field]

I wish GW would make a model for those

just a baby one, like a Sisters drop-pod

[jaunty dawn]

(and troops trained for airborne insertion just get organic aircraft anyway)

[zinc field]

A drop-chapel

[desert jay]

Dang, pretty sure that strat does more mortals to your own unit than the enemy

[past sphinx]

Don't know the meaning of the word

[jaunty dawn]

it depends on how many units you get engaged with

[desert jay]

True

[floral herald]

Not if you double or triple charge :^)

[jaunty dawn]

double charge is like

[desert jay]

Also it's absolutely a win if you only have like 1-2 guys left in the unit

[jaunty dawn]

7 vs 7.5

latter being your own unit

then triple charge is 10.5 vs 7.5

n yeah true

[desert jay]

Valkyries coming down to bring you to Valhalla with your fellow squadmates

[uneven ember]

Also, I've brought this up before, but I continue to find this hilarious about Aeronautica Imperialis and I'm not sure if they did it on purpose:

1. IoM flyers can take ejector seats as wargear
2. they suck and you shouldn't

[jaunty dawn]

I'm kinda sad the valkyrie strat doesn't like

let you pick up a nearby infantry

when it goes into reserves

it would be more symmetric with it's own special rule

and give it a pretty interesting role of letting any unit that fits in it uppy-downy

but maybe that's why they don't let you lol

but its like. you're taking a valkyrie in 10th ed. cut em some slack

[desert jay]

Wait a sec... is that a strat that targets an air unit? I thought GW hated air units

And ooh, tomorrow is the 4x daemon drop

[jaunty dawn]

never seen these before

kinda neat

[mild glen]

Showed my wife the article and, as a terrain fiend, she's drooling

[jaunty dawn]

gonna be so expensive I imagine but the flying buttresses are just so cool...

[floral herald]

I love the little escape pod and the dynamite IED fat man

[mild glen]

Flying buttresses are peak architecture, change my mind

[jaunty dawn]

kinda sad they didn't bring back the sisters statue thing for this made to order stuff

[uneven ember]

just that I'm here going "so I could give my pilots ejector seats, but I've chosen not to, I don't feel that's a good use of my resources."

"If they want to come back from the sortie they should consider winning."

[jaunty dawn]

yeah for sure

[uneven ember]

I trust the little medical dude on the bottom right.
I feel like he has superb bedside manner

[past sphinx]

Actual words spoken by the US military industrial complex at one point

There was serious arguments about it

[uneven ember]

Yuuuup. 🙃
& so, like I said, I don't know if it was on purpose but it has the player making that same decision and (generally) making the one that, y'know, the IoM would make
"if shot down, roll; on 5+ reduce VP value (which includes this upgrade) by 25%" vs a pair of A2A missiles for the same point cost

[mild glen]

Giving big "Safety? I just keep my finger off the trigger." Vibes.

[desert jay]

... Space Marines is gonna have 20 21 detachments by the end of the month

(Assuming BT, BA, and SW all get one)

[jaunty dawn]

space marines!!!!!

[dense sedge]

I wonder if that will be the christmas reveal

[muted elm]

hollow out the interior and fill it with "torpedoes"[sic]

[mild glen]

Wife is putting together some bloodletters. Keeps laughing at the daemon-booty

I love this woman.

[pulsar holly]

https://youtu.be/YZol33Xuy3I Gotta say I kinda like the Imperium's most loyal Astartes Chapter, the Exorcists

[hearty wasp]

Petty thing i would do with a time machine: go back and change Warhammer 40k so Space Marines are more independent.

[uneven ember]

?
An Astartes Chapter is pretty independent

[past sphinx]

They're almost completely outside yhr chain of command

Answerable to basically only to terra

[upper canopy]

Or to whoever Can Kill Them or stop supplying them with bullets

[past sphinx]

That being a rather tricky endeavor

Marines malevolent 4 lyfe

[uneven ember]

yeah
One of the best ways to do anything about stubborn Marines being getting a different chapter of Marines on your side

aaaaand now you've got the Badab War

[pulsar holly]

and nothing ever went wrong around Badab. Not at all. Don't you mind those Minotaurs, they're friendly fellas.

[paper bluff]

It would be funny is the exorcists were loyalist word bearers

But I like those guys.

[desert jay]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/qfmpn3ui/grotmas-calendar-day-16-have-yourself-a-ruinous-little-day/

Daemons are here

[paper bluff]

Hmmmmm should I get khorne daemons?

[desert jay]

IDK

Also oh boy strats. Slaanesh has a "transfer all wounds to another friendly unit this phase" strat and a "battleshock tests for everyone! (including friendlies)" strat

Nurgle is a bshock detachment

Khorne is more charging and melee murder (as usual)

Tzeentch is spicy, detach rule gives them a pool of reroll tokens they give to their opponent when spent, and the opponent can spend them to hand them back

[mild glen]

Okay. My brain isn't braining well right now:
Khorne gets a surge move into combat without a charge if you end a move within 6"?
And they... sticky an objective if they gain control by killing something in melee?

[desert jay]

Yes

[mild glen]

Also; skulls begets blood is just Grenades .

Making it immediately the best strategem in the game.

[desert jay]

What if grenades were actually... [reads fluff] flaming skulls that explode?

[mild glen]

Tracks, TBH

[desert jay]

Also hey, Sheathed in Brass uses an entirely different wording from Armor of Contempt for similar effect, it changes your own save instead of modifying enemy AP. Why does this matter? [points at dataslate]

[zinc field]

Tzeench looks like a lot of fun

[mild glen]

I'm imagining trying to explain this to the wife.
"So, you know how you can't normally use your favourite thing in combat? Well, about that..."

[desert jay]

(Also it buffs ALL armor saves to 3+, whether starting at 4+ or 7+)

[mild glen]

Yeah, changes the armor save so now your daemon has to pretend to care about AP.

[desert jay]

But also unlike (new) AOC, lasts the whole phase instead of just one unit's attacks

[mild glen]

[tired cairn]

The last Tzeetch strat is a bit silly. Send units in engagement range into reserves and net yourself an extra flux token? Yes please

[pulsar holly]

Wondering if you can build your PC to be something close to, if not one, a Navy Breacher in Imperium Maledictum.

[solemn gull]

How much support has imperium maledictum got from C7 or the community?

[floral herald]

It should be pretty easy

[pulsar holly]

It just got a new supplement from C7, granted it's not one I was super thrilled about since it's Inquisition focused. (They said initially the first supplement would be focused on one of the factions not really focused on in the past....which the Inquisition is not one of) It's a player's guide supplement, and there's a GM one in the works.

GM guide for Inquisition that is.

[pulsar holly]

That'd probably be my first PC, before I even try to mess around with playing a psyker.

[jaunty dawn]

think that's just a navy background soldier profession

[mild glen]

Yeah, Navy Breacher should be super easy to make.

Almost as easy as Guardsmen Xavier Spendable

[glad spear]

For any Tau players out there who like lore

The new Tau book, Elemental Council is very good

Also retcons a lot of the weird Kelly canon from before

[floral herald]

Oh cool

I haven’t had a chance to read that one yet

[glad spear]

Ethereals aren't mind controlling people, nor are they telling people to kill themselves : )

More like a spiritual/charismatic leader to steer people towards the greater good

Also the Raptors and some imperial groups are invovled too

[mild glen]

Been meaning to grab it. Sold out online, though

[glad spear]

Black Library has an ebook and a audiobook

Emma Gregory, same person who did Ciaphas Cain and Regent's Shadow

[mild glen]

Ah, yes. ways in which I am incapable of consuming media 1 and 2

(Not a dig at you, promise)

[glad spear]

I know I know, just putting it out there for others

I like physical books myself

But it's hard to get with GW half the time

[thin ibex]

I don't remember any canon about Ethereals actually mind controlling anyone or telling people to off themselves?

I read a lot of the Kelly novels for T'au, though not all admittedly

As I recall, great pains have been made to not explain the effect that Ethereals have on Tau in narrative

[jaunty dawn]

theres been passages saying the loyalty was so strong they could but thats very different to actually doing it

[floral herald]

There’s a novel where it happens but it’s sort of ambiguous if it’s mind control or REALLY intense normal loyalty stuff

[glad spear]

There's a section of one of the Kelly books, I believe one of the Farsight books, where one of the villian ethereals "force" a water caste to shoot themsevles, and there's a written section about some mysterious compulsion to complete the order

Which to me and most Tau fans, reads as mind control rather than loyalty

The new book leans away from that

Without spoiling much

[thin ibex]

i never felt like it was egregious, and I kind of prefer the ambiguity, which at time needs circumstances to straddle the line

In my mind it needs to be a powerful enough effect that to an outsider, to believe mind control to be a compelling theory

[jaunty dawn]

just realised its kinda odd that the box art vanguard marines have gold shoulder pad trim

should strictly speaking be dark blue if theyre actually from tenth company

technically theres nothing really stopping them being second company deploying in phobos armour but like. yeah

[glad spear]

The issue is in that previous editions and books, suicide is considered wasteful, like to the Tau'va, so it's very very weird when an ethereal is telling you to do it

[thin ibex]

with the amount of secrecy around Aun'Va specifically, I don't find it all that weird, personally.

[jaunty dawn]

but also fwiw this book doesn't retcon things any more than the kelly books do. different interpretations of the lore coexist

n you dont just have to go with whatever the most recently published book says

but yeah the new book does seem pretty cool

[glad spear]

100%

[jaunty dawn]

seen some excerpts in another server

[glad spear]

I prefer the black van social engineering style of ethereal myself

[thin ibex]

definitely, I generally just don't feel that the lore for the tau was ever like... as ethically as good as its said to be in a lot of forums, and enjoy the darker aspects of it as far as Empire goes

[glad spear]

They never should be good, even the codexes emphasize it

Between eugenics, propaganda, social engineering, alturism, and some naiveness of their place in the world, it leads to an interesting interactions, like sending people into the grinder to save one important person

[thin ibex]

yeah i also find that its an interesting take on a parallel to the Imperium in the sort of self assurance that they are more noble and righteous. Similar positions, different aesthetics and reasoning

[glad spear]

And I prefer the idea of years of internalized collectivist group think about their place in the world, like an fire caste who would prefer doing what he was made for over the idea of social pressure from their peers, since ethereals are super duper rare

While mind control or psyker things can be a speculative idea, I think its far more interesting and unique compared to the imperium to focus more on the idea of accepting a good life because it is the "better option" and having a functional society built around it

And it leans more into them being xenos in nature since nuclear families or romance isn't really a thing in tau culture

[pulsar holly]

Which weird lore?

[glad spear]

They specifically mention the Tau suicide thing from the ethereals, which was one of my major hangups

[paper bluff]

Oh this one

[glad spear]

Yup that one

[runic swallow]

Do t know why, but that has the vibe of a 90s adventure game cover

Like, one where they’re super proud of the 3D models

[thin ibex]

its the indistinct bg, the floating heads, and everyone having a different eye line

[paper bluff]

I know where 2 copies of that book is at the very least

[pastel rampart]

I had a much worse idea: ||a Ken Penders cover||

[runic swallow]

I don’t know what that is actually

[pastel rampart]

Probably for the best.

[glad spear]

The art is my least favorite part

[upper canopy]

Oh did they actually get an asian person to write the Tau for once so it comes across as slightly less racist

[mild glen]

In Gladius, during the T'au campaign, towards the end, the player character commander ||Is told to betray a member of their Taliserra going rogue, and the text implies that after the Ethereal tells to PC to do this, that they begin to believe it's their idea||

Of course, there's some... fourth Sphere sentiments in the T'au story

The campaign win condition is ||Detonating a bomb that kills all non-T'au on the planet, including your auxillaries||

[past sphinx]

i am the one true arbiter of tau lore

James came to me in a dream and told me so

nothing after 4th counts

because none of it is very good

like gw thinks theyve written themselves into a corner in every single lore entry and swing wildly for something every time only to walk it back a few years later

[upper canopy]

Occulus likes the new book

And that's kinda ll I need tbh

[tired cairn]

||they also defect after going through with the order||

[upper canopy]

https://bsky.app/profile/oculusimperia.bsky.social/post/3ldhw7oog422g

Oculus Imperia (@oculusimperia.bsky.social)

BLASTING through Elemental Council by @noahvannguyen.bsky.social: simply sublime. Deftly weaving together every Tau "lore era" while expanding their culture and politics better than ever before, this is one you shouldn't miss. Also, if you want more xenos books, BUY THIS ONE!

Bluesky · Dec 17, 2024, 3:39 AM

[pulsar holly]

I'm fine with retconning a lot of Kelly's stuff....as long as we don't retcon the new Greater Good deity ||that Shadowsun and the region's she's in are currently protected by||

[mild glen]

I unironically enjoy the Greater Good deity and think that's a fun narrative space to work with.

[merry lagoon]

Honestly I always liked the contrast as the Tau basically being wanna be star trekkers who are in the wrong galaxy

They're taking the role humanity would have in any other scifi: the young, but clever race that's new to the stars

And they'd be the protagonists but the 40kverse is so terrible barely anything they do matters

[mild glen]

In Star Trek, the T'au would be the clear and unambiguous villians

(I think it's great that this makes them relatively good by 40k standards)

...

I'm now imagining a short story set on a Feudal world that hasn't seen anything from the greater Imperium for generations... and then strange blue men descend from the sky and they bring happiness and medical technology and automation and introduce you to all sorts of weird and wonderful creatures -- like monsters from the stories, but not nearly as awful as those stories would claim -- and best of all, they lift you to the stars...

And then the end of the story involves watching your friends die on a far-off planet where the air is made of poison while other humans call you a traitor and a heretic and you have no idea what you did wrong.

[desert jay]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/75a06szv/grotmas-calendar-day-17-glad-tidings-to-you-and-your-kin/

Votann!

... what Votann unit has deep strike?

Ah, it's a wargear option for Einhyr Hearthguard

(Also available on the standalone Einhyr Champion)

[mild glen]

To be fair, that's like, 1/6th of their units.

[desert jay]

Yeah but it's only 1 model kit

[mild glen]

So... 1/10th of their model kits?

[desert jay]

Heh, yeah

Also a pretty ordinary detachment, nothing spicy or interesting

In fact I think the index detachment is spicier

[mild glen]

Anyway, Votann are cool and I'd like to see more of them.

[deft crest]

Listening to Da big dakka And immediately being able to tell when the book was written ||IS DAH SKY WHITE AND GOLD OR BLACK AND BLUE||

[tepid stratus]

I do believe warriors can get deepstrike based on a wargear choice for the Khal too

[thin ibex]

Also, deepstriking hearthguard have been a pretty hefty element of votan comp play imo

[thin ibex]

I find that a lot of Tau fans are almost desperate for them to be the setting good guys and often get like... blinded by the phrase "The Greater Good". It's those fans who always respond to any perceived change or nuance to Tau lore as ruining it or making it too dark. Imo the darker elements and ingredients have always been there and are just frequently ignored in favor of the most positive interpretation possible

Though I will concede that Ethereals work better when their villainy is obscured or obfuscated by a more secure veneer than actually being arseholes all the time.

But I hear so frigging often about how "Tau lore got ruined because it's got darker"

[glad spear]

Yeah there is a subsect of fans who are like that sadly, but I do enjoy the more secretive sinister elements that the Tau offer, such as the eugenics, propaganda, and rigid rules. I know there was a particular issue, including me, with the way Kelly made it much more blatant, which leans a little into sort of an Imperium style of evil

[tepid stratus]

Evil Tau are more fun when it's cia black site shit and not comedicaly evil mind control and mass castration

[glad spear]

Tau aren't stringing you up in front of a council and reprimanding you, they just make you disappear yeah

[thin ibex]

Yeah I can agree with that for sure

Ironically a reference point I sometimes throw out is avatar's ba singh se vibes as far as disappearing folks

One of those societal things where it's an own secret that if you express the wrong sentiments openly, you might just get vanished

[tepid stratus]

"there is no farsight under the tau'va"

[paper bluff]

I see them like the ankh-morpork patrician from discworld

[thin ibex]

A thing I did like about the farsight books was the description of how so much of what is done by characters but presumably by anyone in the empire is being recorded. And their "heroes" are under even more scrutiny at almost all times

Drones monitoring almost everything that's going on and quietly listening

[paper bluff]

Whaaaaaaa a society where the helpful tech things are constantly monitoring you? what an unrealistic dystopia

[thin ibex]

It's one of the things that makes sense as a given, but wasn't really stated as explicitly as before

[glad spear]

People have bad reading comprehension sometimes, I know I have for a bit

When things seem too subtle

One thing I did get with Kelley's interpretation, with making it a bit more blantant for folks, but maybe way too blatant?

[paper bluff]

As one of the races that actually do diplomacy, it behooves the Tau to have propaganda put there saying "we are the good guys" IMO

[glad spear]

And the Water Caste are good at it

[paper bluff]

It's also alot easier to sell a forever war when you tell your people "we are the good guys"

[glad spear]

TBF, most of the actual Tau are earth caste and most don't end up seeing war that often, except for the combat engineers that are briefly mentioned

Or at least aren't on the front lines

Leans into more of the middle eastern NATO wars and how they were portrayed to people

[paper bluff]

I think the water caste fully do the irl thing where a celebrity goes to Africa and does the "look at the poor under privileged folks" with imperial worlds

[glad spear]

Which was part of their original vison from their creator

[thin ibex]

Well, they see the propaganda vids of proud fire warriors in victory. They probably also get vids of noble earth caste at work, building the empire

[glad spear]

Yup

And like comparing imperial squalor to tau stuff

Which, from the excerpt I can remember, the imperial squalor is probably better than most hiveworlds lol

[thin ibex]

In the ongoing conflicts, they probably get a lot of "the fighting is tough, but we are winning thanks to you" type stuff

[bright dove]

I see now. The Tau are Super Earth.

[glad spear]

Yeah basically

[floral herald]

I’m not disagreeing with you but I always find this phrasing funny because I think every single race in 40K does (or did) diplomacy

[glad spear]

But a coalition of species rather than kill first ask questions later

[floral herald]

At least on the side

[desert jay]

I imagine there's a lot of air caste and water caste too. Stuff needs moving, services need running

[paper bluff]

You got it

[bright dove]

Yeah, diplomacy happens all the time in 40k.

Exceptions for basically Khorne and the Orks.

[thin ibex]

Super earth but a less tongue in cheek, like battle suits aren't loading up into a giant Revolver to be shot at the enemy. That being said the "guys in the ground with a butt load of designated support" isn't too far off

[glad spear]

Tau diplomacy is different since its more subtle, slowly integrate yourself with the locals through trading and good will and eventually they will flip

[floral herald]

Orks do diplomacy! They work as mercenaries and sometimes do protection rackets

[thin ibex]

Though Tau do freeze their heroes to be used later

[desert jay]

And/or create engram chips

[floral herald]

They’re just complicated to trade with because for them politics is a continuation of fightin through other means

[glad spear]

Imperial diplomacy is like "Im lord blankblank son of blank blank, respect me or DIE!" or a variation of that

[bright dove]

Fair on that, Cyan.

Oh no, Imperial Diplomacy gets quite interesting.

[floral herald]

Or the various deals and stuff at the edges of space

[bright dove]

As ever, we have a Ciaphas Cain novel to thank for a look into it.

[glad spear]

Or diplomacy because you HAVE to due to fighting a billion fronts at once

[floral herald]

And Rogue Traders in general

Shoot there was like a semi-official non-aggression treaty between the Imperium and the Eldar in 5e

[bright dove]

And thanks to how decentralized the Imperium is sometimes, interplanetary diplomacy is 100% a thing.

[glad spear]

Eldar also generally try to avoid conflict for the most part, unless you're the Ynarri

Or I guess Biel-Tan

[floral herald]

But it was mostly “after 10,000 years we are starting to learn the lesson that attacking Eldar means that Biel-Tan will burn down planets until the aggression stops”

[bright dove]

Khornates don't do diplomacy at all.

Why talk to stop fighting when instead you can KILL MAIM BURN

[floral herald]

Depends on if you count possession as diplomacy but in general yeah

(I don’t think possession, even willingly really counts)

[glad spear]

If you ever get a chance to read the Tau 10th Edition codex, its great

[floral herald]

Khorne does wheel and deal with the other chaos gods at least

[glad spear]

Its basically written as Tau propaganda

[bright dove]

Necrons can and will do DIplomacy, if they care.

Zoats are the funniest thing the Tyrnaids have and show how advanced the Hive Mind is.

[glad spear]

From the section called "Gunship Diplomacy"

"The Greater Good demands the tireless expansion of the T’au Empire. It is not enough to wait for the peoples of the galaxy to come in search of enlightenment. The T’au feel genuine compassion for those unfortunate enough to still toil in darkness and ignorance. They believe the message of the Greater Good must be brought to all, and every civilization ushered into the wonder of its light."

[thin ibex]

the biggest thing about tau diplomacy is a level of pragmatism, in that not everything demands an immediate reaction, but it will demand a reaction eventually

so a strong world that doesn't wanna get empired? They might leave it alone for a bit, but sooner or later the fleet will show up to ask again at the end of a railgun

[bright dove]

Out of all the Chaos gods, the only one I'd actually trust in terms of diplomacy is Nurgle of all things.

[glad spear]

Khorne does not lie, idk man

[bright dove]

Tzeentchian things are playing you if they engage in diplomacy.

[glad spear]

He will kill you though

[bright dove]

Khorne does not want to do diplomacy.

Slaanesh diplomacy seems... Bad to engage with.

[glad spear]

Tzeentch is also the chaos god of hope and ambition, if you're part of the grand plan, you mayyyyyyy get something out of it, or turn into a chaos spawn

Honestly Vashtorr is probably the best chaos god to negotiate with

He is a contracts guy, if you write one well enough and understand the elements involved, he will follow it

[bright dove]

Not a god yet, just close.

[glad spear]

Same goes if you fuck it up, he will make sure that you understand that by force

[thin ibex]

my beef with tzeentch is that you may be part of the plan, but your role in the plan may be exceptionally short

and once your role in the plan is up, you don't matter anymore

[floral herald]

That’s actually a good point

Khorne did treat fairly with Angron

[bright dove]

Khorne is 100% honest.

[floral herald]

legit the only entity ever to do so lol

[glad spear]

If you're strong and prove yourself, Khorne isn't going to backstab you, but you may get horrifically injured

or die

[bright dove]

Khorne wants blood. It doesn't matter where that comes from.

[desert jay]

I think Angron also came out ahead in becoming a daemon prince

Because wanna know a weird perk? When he's in the warp the nails don't work

[bright dove]

Insomuch as becoming a Daemon Prince is a good thing.

[thin ibex]

Skarbrands big mistake was throwing the hit while khorne was seemingly distracted wasnt it? Papa Khorne was actually pretty jazzed about how angry skarbrand was, just not how he expressed it, and Khorne doesn't know forgiveness

[glad spear]

Also Vashtorr is cool because you can do technomancy and make chaos engines

And everyone wants you on their chaos legion

[floral herald]

Just swinging at all

But going for the back did make it worse

[glad spear]

Bro though the could take the god of war

[bright dove]

Khorne was probably angry Skarbrand didn't hit harder.

"Get that weak shit out of here, you absolute little shitstain"

[floral herald]

The problem with dealing with Vashtorr is that the legal system in the realm of chaos isn’t fair or transparent and Vashtorr has 1e10^16 years of practice fucking you over

[desert jay]

Mortarion? Fucked over. Magnus? Deluded. Fulgrim? Possessed. But AIUI Angron actually gets to chill in the warp and every so often he gets dragged out to blender some mortals and goes home after

[thin ibex]

i do feel like "khorne wont backstab you" is a little mitigated by his favorite mortal-ish boy bearing the moniker "The Betrayer"

[desert jay]

Oh wait there's also Peturabo

[floral herald]

In his defense he attacked from the front with a flamethrower

That’s a pretty weak defense though yeah

[glad spear]

True but it's also not in his nature to really trick or lie, he lets the daemons write themselves into bad positions, like when Perty miscalculated his payments

[bright dove]

They had the audacity to stop fighting because it was a bit cold

Kharn just warmed them up enough to remember the deal!

[glad spear]

Vashtorr is the used car salesman who attempts to trap people with bad impulse control(daemons) with a dodge challenger they can't afford(daemon engines) on like 72 payments

But he repos your soul

Honestly Nurgle is probably also like an ok person to diplomacy with, assuming you're cool with like getting every disease known to man but you do get to be functionally invincible

[desert jay]

looks up why Kharn is called the Betrayer

Oh dude, you fucked up

I was suspecting some tale of cunning duplicity, not "if I set my troops on fire maybe they'll run faster"

[brisk mountain]

Is it okay to post Warhammer memes here?

[glad spear]

I think so yeah

Right?

[glad spear]

Ork methodology

[glad spear]

Hell yeah

Kharn also killed Saint Celestine

[desert jay]

She got better

[glad spear]

Yeah she got better

[bright dove]

"I killed Saint Celestine and all I got was this stupid skull"

[desert jay]

But also like, "killed an enemy combatant on the field of battle" is a pretty low tier grudge, especially for 40k

[glad spear]

I mean there are some people who just always do that

cough Cato cough

So it means nothing

I just think saint celestine is neat

[floral herald]

I wonder if his archeotech kill counter registered that

[glad spear]

You know what, I don't know

You know something I wish was a thing

More Ynarri stuff. Guilliman x Yvraine isn't really that funny anymore but the Visarch x Yvraine is more fun I guess?

Also I think the idea of nuking Slaanesh is cool but would also table flip the universe

[desert jay]

Thank you for letting me know this was a thing XD

Also apparently a gift from Horus himself!

[bright dove]

AoS took them off the board for a while

[floral herald]

Oh I didn’t know that part

[bright dove]

Slaanesh was straight up held captive for a good bit

[floral herald]

I just remembered it from a Let the Galaxy Burn short story

[bright dove]

Then Morathi screwed things up

[floral herald]

Which also features a Khorne Berserker getting fatally shot next to him while running for a defensive wall

So Kharn beheaded him and kicked his dying head over the wall so he could see the slaughter

Which was a memorable way to learn about Kharn

[bright dove]

Man, that Kharn is such a swell guy. Making sure your last moments are spent looking at something you love.

[pastel rampart]

Magnets are my happy place.

[glad spear]

I forgot about that. The Ynarri plot would also require a few craftworlds to blow themselves up which would also mega suck

Along with that suicide mission into Slaanesh's palace

[bright dove]

Yeah, AoS isn't afraid of setting shake-ups

[pulsar cairn]

u mean like this?

[past sphinx]

GW's perfectly refined shape for hucking across an LGS

[glad spear]

I just think Yvraine and The Visarch are so cool, eldar who say fuck it to their society and live out every version of life before attempting to fix it all together

[floral herald]

Yeah I like them a lot

[pastel rampart]

Nah that's the old metal dread, that causes real damage.

[thin ibex]

i always got the impression that gw isn't quite sure what they want to do with yvraine and the visarch now that they've had a big adventure and established their background

but maybe thats unfair of me

plenty of established character have had stuff happen to them

or with them

[glad spear]

It also didn't help that their books didn't sell as well I think

There's so much potential

[paper bluff]

The ynnari cannot win is the thing. Doomed by plot if you will

Could it be more interesting than what GW leaves it at? Yes absolutely

[glad spear]

I just wish they could have them doing other things, ignoring the last crone sword

[floral herald]

They super can though I think it’s a weird fan thing

I think it’s just kinda on hold because the books weren’t that popular haha

[paper bluff]

Yeah absolutely they could but then narratively that gets into the what the harlequins do

The ynnari getting a leg up and undooming the eldar would be the setting narrative punch as the great rift but even more so

It would be like the emperor returning

[floral herald]

It wouldn’t be as big a deal as that

Imo

[thin ibex]

all you'd need to do is have some ugly adversary rear their head in response, sort of like primaris reinforcements coinciding with the cicatrix maledictum

[bright dove]

Slaanesh dying means Vaashtor gets a chance to ascend

[floral herald]

Easy ngl but maybe not gonna happen

Slaanesh gets Big Mad and after 10000 years sends Fulgrim out

[thin ibex]

slaanesh could also not die in the ynnari's apotheosis, and rather just create two gods in a cage match

[paper bluff]

Gork and mork v 2?

[thin ibex]

and slaanesh ate the other eldar gods, the ynnari's victory isn't necessarily a given

You know, tangent, but what has eldrad been up to of late?

he's like... one of the oldest non necron bois out there

[floral herald]

Crystal statue stuff of ambiguous canon state

[bright dove]

Crystalliz8ng

[thin ibex]

oh snap

[floral herald]

(He’s in a confusing spot since he died in a book and then un-died because most of that continuity got rolled back iirc)

[paper bluff]

It would be funny for Vect to try to become the Deldar god

Then it's Vect, Isha, ynnead, and clown god

I can see Isha becoming way more important if, huge if, GW ever did an exodite army

[paper bluff]

Vect is the other maybe

[pulsar holly]

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/496509/warhammer-40-000-roleplay-imperium-maledictum-inquisition-gm-s-guide?src=newest_recent just came out today

[floral herald]

Oh sweet

[bright dove]

I'm willing to believe Vect is Fall old, if only because of how entrenched he's made himself

[glad spear]

Oh sick

A friend of mine ordered the physical book I think

Along with the aeldari Wrath and Glory book

[pulsar holly]

I just picked up the Inquisition Player's Guide for Imperium Maledictum, and the Absolver Space Marine Chapter's supplement for Wrath & Glory last night

And then surprise this dropped today

https://tenor.com/view/akane-kurokawa-kurokawa-akane-oshi-no-ko-onk-oshi-no-ko-season-2-gif-1605584530475729261

Giving in and looking for a campaign even if it means Inquisition focused one. Since there is some neat stuff in the player facing book. Like the factions/philosophies within the Inquisition.

[pastel rampart]

He's claimed to have witnessed the fall of the Eldar personally so he's likely that old.

[pulsar holly]

good lord that's a lot of pain he's fed off of then.

[glad spear]

I do really want to try imperium maledictum, either running or playing in it

I love me some d100 rpgs, and its grungy 40k? Fuck yeah

[floral herald]

It was also only like 12,000 years iirc

[glad spear]

only

[pulsar holly]

I wanna see someone do a campaign focused on the Imperial Navy, Adeptus Ministorum, or Adeptus Administratum.

Instead of the Inquisition, or Rogue Trader.

[glad spear]

That would be so cool

WTG could do that tbh

Though it wouldn't be the same system/feel

[pulsar holly]

Or crime, since the Infractionist patron can be a Criminal mastermind instead of a guildmaster.

[pastel rampart]

It does put him as one of the longest-living mortals alongside Eldrad, though who knows if declaring himself a Dark Muse puts him outside of mortality.

They haven't really expanded upon it in uuuuuuh a decade or so.

[glad spear]

Eldar moment

[pastel rampart]

Oh sorry 6 years, but still.

[glad spear]

They should've made Eldrad a ultramarine, he would get so many books

[pastel rampart]

We also haven't had Vect as a playable unit since 3rd.

Bring him back for 10th GW, give him his flying pimpmobile too.

[pulsar holly]

What if we kill Vect instead, and replace him with someone even more cruel and less capable of holding the Drukhari somewhat together?

[glad spear]

Call him Bect his twin brother

[thin ibex]

Iirc wasn't vect a slave during the fall?

[glad spear]

Reuse his pimpmobile

[thin ibex]

And like, he has gone from slave of the Aeldari to the most powerful drukhari there is, was I thought his foundational lore

Rags to riches and bonus unspeakable, premeditated evil

[floral herald]

I’m pretty sure he was playable in their 5th edition book

[thin ibex]

vect has faked his death what, like a bajillion times?

[spice flicker]

Is house herpetrax Undivided or nurgle aligned or unknown?

[paper bluff]

I like to imagine Eldrad and Vect meeting up every 1,000 years to share a drink from a pre-fall bottle of wine

[pulsar holly]

Necromunda?

[spice flicker]

Knight house that was discovered well after the HH and when the Imperial ambassador tried to force them into joining, the leadership gave the double barrel middle finger to the Imperium and went Renegade instead after killing the ambassador.

[pulsar holly]

Oh!

[south axle]

After giving their lore a quick glance I'd say undivided

[pulsar holly]

Listening to ArbiterIan talk about the Aranthian Succession, and every time I hear "Seven pointed Star" I just can't help but think "Wow this is a very unsubtle Chaos faction."

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KkGSa/56f710798a.jpg

Huh, so he was.

It's funny that they have rules for him on foot but never made a model of him to do that, he's always been "dude riding a raider around"

[glad spear]

Also a cool model in and of itself

[bright dove]

Yeee

Death as a faction is loaded with cool models.

[desert jay]

AoS as a game is loaded with cool models

[paper bluff]

It is. I wish they would let those folks work on 40k more

[jaunty dawn]

kinda disappointing the votann detachment isnt hernkyn based but maybe thats just planned for the codex anyway

[spice flicker]

Wish it gave the votann more movement potential

[sweet solar]

oh that model rules thats going on my "autobuy if i can get it for £5 ish from ebay" list

army idea: "dark mechanicus" lead by converted lady olynder, but its all fluffed as post heresy blackshields being kept together by a heretical magos who is delving into the emperors old bioltech work, and not chaos aligned

[pulsar holly]

Impatiently waiting for some bigger units for the Leagues of Votann. Like some more heavy tanks, or some flyers or something 😔

[sweet solar]

with olynder as a counts as for either the lion or guilliman

[sweet solar]

they need to release a few more alternate heavy tanks similar to the land fortress, with rules to couple them together as a "land train" for massive survivability bonuses counteracted by the nightmare of actually having to move the thing round terrain

also the iron eagle

[jaunty dawn]

I don't think it has an olynder specifically but https://www.instagram.com/p/C64PT1ktrwm/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

mp_miniatures

My 3.000pts army is finally ready for next week #noretreatgibraltar . Really hyped for this event, all the armies I have seen so far are insane! Will see how the Myrmidax list behave in the battlefield.
I also made 6 little objective markers using the orbs I modeled.
#omnissiahseries

#wargames #warhamer30k #warhammer #warhammer40k #warh...

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https://www.instagram.com/explore/search/keyword/?q=%23omnissiahseries&hl=en

[south axle]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy_qjaotoKi/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== is the cloak Olynder on this one?

mp_miniatures

Sydonian Skatros. I really liked the concept of a long leg sniper, so I converted it in my army style. These are all GW bits, from a lot of different boxes. I had always wanted to convert Nighthaunt Banshees, it was hard to put together but Im happy with the result. Good thing is I could do very thin scary legs thanks to the cape touching the ba...

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8171

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[pastel rampart]

https://www.ft.com/content/369279f5-6f44-4248-a0f1-5347864eacf7?accessToken=zwAGKXslSrCAkc82knn1b0RCSNOg8VNHhk6s9w.MEQCIC2miEp6YxJQz_ATNyDf4C8GtsoZkjE5OEwoVrHs5OVjAiAeDCgtP-yQGD7fcCYaCL5E-rUvXXiKdAXZtmVbBDKFvg&sharetype=gift&token=094dfddc-66b7-41c3-95ca-6ffce382a5f0

Games Workshop is now a £4.6bn company, making it more valuable than easyJet, British Land, Burberry, Tate & Lyle, Greggs, ITV or Manchester United. In market cap terms it’s about twice the size of Rathbones, the 282-year-old investment company, and more than three times the size of Aston Martin.

[pulsar holly]

What's with the AoS units?

Ahh

[meager quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1115788957289037844/1318661878880407553/RDT_20241217_1429366035308109560499667.jpg?ex=67632313&is=6761d193&hm=fed6fcbb9b27e7a0efbb5145e65309624f97b3417553122a47a7b3e215453707&

Advantage Robonbon

[tardy vault]

Nighthaunt are the kitbash gift that keeps on giving.

Literally an entire army of cloaks

[meager quail]

I do kinda enjoy that insofar as there is a "main character" primarch he's explicitly not the best of them in really any sense except his willingness and ability to actually organize things

And that has very little to do with his being a primarch, really

[pulsar holly]

You gonna tell me Roboute Guilliman is not charismatic?

[meager quail]

He is but not as much as Sanguinius was

[pulsar holly]

Wondering which loyalist primarch (of the ones still living) might come back next. After the next traitor primarch shows up.

[meager quail]

The point of the comparison IMO is that Sanguinius was sort of the perfect hero king but what the Imperium actually needs right now is a capable administrator

[pastel rampart]

My money's on either Russ or Dorn.

[meager quail]

Russ would be good for his dynamics with the others

[pastel rampart]

He'd also be a

https://tenor.com/view/wild-card-car-bitches-gas-gif-7486124

[jaunty dawn]

just several banshees I think

[pulsar holly]

😔 🥺 Once more I am hoping for GW to show the White Scars some love and bring back Jaghatai Khan. That or Vulkan.

[pastel rampart]

I'd love it if Khan showed up but I don't think WS is even on the radar right now.

[pulsar holly]

[pastel rampart]

Vulkan is a little more likely since Salamanders are still kinda popular.

Corax, uh...yeah not likely without Lorgar.

[jaunty dawn]

make 👏 a 👏 bike

[pulsar holly]

Lorgar too scared to come out of hiding yet.

[glad spear]

Living Saint Corvus tormenting Lorgar

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1318679898449117256/57a925d6cf914b31c93abcf509cde64a.png?ex=676333db&is=6761e25b&hm=deb406163c3d774247bda8fcac01929584c020ae0a52baa1adacd7979e5c57a6&

[tired cairn]

What's the over/under on Khan being on foot lol

[pulsar holly]

Yes

[glad spear]

"WHAT THIS RELIGON IS OLDER THAN OUR SPECIES" -tau probably

[paper bluff]

Has eldrad ever interacted with the tau? I feel like that would be a hoot

[glad spear]

They haven't I think

[upper canopy]

The only possible way I'd be excited for Russ coming back is if he's a Bloodborne boss wolf monster

[paper bluff]

Literal feral animal russ?

[upper canopy]

YEAH

HOLY SHIT

what is the source of this

[glad spear]

Fanart by Relithel

[paper bluff]

We're still down one loyalist but with the EC getting their own codex I still feel fulgrim 40k will happen first

[bright dove]

I am hoping the next loyalist Primarch is Fulgrim. After all, Trazyn has that clone.

[solemn gull]

What is the interest in primarchs coming back about exactly? Feels like Horus Heresy Mk. 2

[thin ibex]

i think in general its just "they're cool distillations of a chapter/legion, they're big bombastic personalities, and they represent an escalation in the conflict" prolly

that and they've already returned 2 of em

[thin ibex]

for the loyalists anyway

and incorporated at least 2 chaos ones

[paper bluff]

3 actually

Morty, angry Ron, and magnus

[thin ibex]

ah yeah you right

[desert jay]

Also they make cool big centerpiece models

[desert jay]

My hope is that if they do keep at it it's Corvus Corax being totally-not-a-loyalist-daemon-prince-made-of-birds

[floral herald]

It’s also less of a big deal to make models/rules for the daemon primarchs setting wise since they’re… around

Fulgrim even had a model back in like 1e 2e

[pulsar cairn]

sometimes i forget about the stupid ammounts of space marines that the emperor had during the heresy

also do yall think something big's coming?

i know that we had one big chaos victory with Angron

and lion returning is pretty big as well

but i feel like that's building up to something

[pulsar holly]

There was a big sort of victory for a Greater Daemon recently. Forgot his name but he functions as an arms dealer/war industry dude for the forces of Chaos. Granted he just barely won because the Lion showed up in the nick of time.

[bright dove]

Vaashtor.

[pulsar holly]

Yeah that dude

[tired cairn]

Well, Fulgrim or the sword at least is probably coming back next year. There is almost certainly going to be an EC release soon(tm)

[pulsar cairn]

oh yeah Vaashtor! he basically remade the dark angel's planet and took it into the webway right?

i think he was making some sort of key

yeah, that's definitely big

[pulsar cairn]

[floral herald]

Vashtorr he’s not a darkin haha

[desert jay]

Yeah most of the traitor primarchs are still all involved in things and that’s not a new development

While all the loyalist ones (until recently) were dead or on life support or a traitor hunting trip or whatever

It’s funny that they brought back the two who were on indefinite life support and not the ones who have been out hunting for thousands of years

And also one the loyalists is “dead (perpetual)” where it’s narratively assumed he’ll be back at some point but GW never got around to even hinting at it

[solemn gull]

I’m amazed 40k lore is as coherent as it is considering the scale

[snow otter]

It's coherent in chunks

As a whole it's batshit

[glad spear]

There's an artist called Superfeyn who does these good 40k comics

Some are jokes but they have a good series involving a gue'vessa leaving the imperium and joining the Tau

Ciaphas Cain reference and I like how they portray their water caste

Someone who is almost naive in how sincere they are as he is incapable of not being optimistic, but also pulled some of the more human cynicism just by working with them

[past sphinx]

robit

[glad spear]

Sick

[uneven ember]

yoooo

[pulsar cairn]

wow

[desert jay]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/v7vsj3wv/grotmas-day-18-wish-upon-the-star-children/

GSC can now make Nid soup lists

Up to 50% of army

[jaunty dawn]

ooh yay

nids just nom the humans

[desert jay]

Winged Hive Tyrant with either enhancement seems nasty

[pulsar cairn]

is hive tyrant the one who almost killed the Ultramarines chapter master?

[bright dove]

That is the Swarmlord, iirc.

[jaunty dawn]

its a special one called

swarmlord yeah

[bright dove]

Who is a particularly advanced Hive Tyrant.

[pulsar cairn]

oh ok

[jaunty dawn]

hive fleet was like 'for some reason in this galaxy commanding officers keep looking from some big guy to duel' so made a duel enemy

basically grievous

[pulsar cairn]

kind of a bummer how that hive fleet didnt show up again after that war

i like their color scheme

[bright dove]

Splinter fleets are a wonderful thing.

[desert jay]

And with Sisters tomorrow, that leaves just Tau, World Eaters, Templars, Bangles, and Wolves (and maybe EC)

[tired cairn]

Oh no. This detachment is dangerous to my wallet

[jaunty dawn]

the allied detachments are really fun tbh

[dense sedge]

Yeah, gsc

What are the tyranids vanguard units?

[thin ibex]

each splinter fleet is actually just a part of the THE hive fleet that developed specific adaptations right?

[desert jay]

It's a pretty solid list

Also about half as many units as the entre GSC list

[deft crest]

Listening to Da Big Dakka, ||Currently in the books tournament arc. Dispite my distaste for drukhari I hope the main character of them and her rival end up living and can get together because I love this thinnly veiled tension between them. But also DAMN i love the book going into how much smarter Blackhawk is getting.||

[sweet solar]

yeah it was a big inspo for my wip mechanicus i havent touched in like a year

[solemn gull]

This is the funniest explanation of a unit I’ve ever heard

[upper bluff]

That is a clean looking knight 10/10

[pulsar holly]

And Leagues of Votann?

[floral herald]

They were day before yesterday

[pulsar holly]

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/75a06szv/grotmas-calendar-day-17-glad-tidings-to-you-and-your-kin/

[pulsar holly]

Wonder if we'll ever get novels focused on the Nova Terra Interregnum period

[paper bluff]

The what?

[floral herald]

Period in the imperium’s history when about 40% of it successfully broke away for like 1000 years iirc

[pulsar holly]

Yeah, it was a period of warlords, and religious schisms, with a major faction rivaling Terra being the Ur-Council of Nova Terra.

[tired cairn]

What time period was that?

[pulsar holly]

M35 I believe

[tired cairn]

I think they should set it whenever techno-barnarians exist

[pulsar holly]

The period lasted for nine centuries.

[tired cairn]

Because that's such a sick title

[pulsar holly]

It's the same time period that resulted in the eventual Sons of Medusa Astartes Chapter.

Since they were originally a Company/War Clan or two from the Iron Hands, and several other exiled group of marines from the Iron Hands successor chapters that got exiled because they were all followers of the Moraie Tech-creed.

Nova Terra actually broke off from the Imperium twice, first during the Nova Terra Interregnum. And again during M41 with the Constaninus Iconoclasm.

https://youtu.be/tVzLq810d00

[past sphinx]

its supposed to be dirty something has gone horribly wrong 😦

[upper bluff]

I just mean paint-wise oops

It does look kinda rusted and muddy

[tired cairn]

Clearly you just need to be worse at painting. Ez

[sour sequoia]

AoS points changes poppin the fuck off today boys

I’m saving like 200pts on my list

[tired cairn]

Wow, that's a lot

[sour sequoia]

Skaven got mad points changes

Laughing at rest of my shop who did not magnetize their weapon teams and made 16 ratling guns

[tired cairn]

Hopefully it's a welcome change and not a "ugh my army is a horde faction now" one

[sour sequoia]

I PLAY SKAVEN BABY MORE HORDE MORE RATS

I do know that feeling though. Much love to mechanicus players

[tired cairn]

Oh. Skaven. More rats is good, good

[sour sequoia]

Basically every faction except nighthaunt got points reductions across the entire board

Gravelords was a sea of changes

[tired cairn]

Though, a big lesson here is not to meta chase lol

Nightgaunts were crazy strong at release right?

[sour sequoia]

I don’t even think the ratling guns aren’t worth anymore they’re finally appropriately costed lmao

Nightgaunts is top tier because they have wicked fast effective charges, retreat-and-charge for free, and the rest of their army rules is basically ‘you stop interacting with defenses whatsoever and we’ll always get our full armor saves and ward (thats on every single unit innately)’

I love the idea of the ghosts faction being horror movie jumpscare charges

But they also absolutely do not die

[floral herald]

Rats mad x16

[jaunty dawn]

going back in time and remaking this meme but its about bluestuff recasting

[bright dove]

I will gladly pay for AoS minis

[paper bluff]

With my caladius grav tank I got a bit of the forge world silicone trapped with it

[jaunty dawn]

that puts you in the running to inherit the forge world factory!

[pulsar cairn]

Yeah the more 3d printing evolves i think the angrier games workshop will get lol

[paper bluff]

Let it be said though, the plastic models? Great and the details are great. just those prices

[bright dove]

It helps me that GW is, by all accounts, an actually good company

[pastel rampart]

Eeeeeeeeeeh

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

[tired cairn]

Well, GW's anti-counterfeit strategy is to show off with their injection molding tech that is hard for recasters to duplicate or to 3d print

[jaunty dawn]

that and dmca ppl who use their ip

[tired cairn]

GW has been better than typical on giving workers bonuses and paying taxes. They aren't super consumer friendly (mostly through pricing and fomo boxes and not like customer support)

[tired cairn]

Yeah, some of that was unreasonable and it's a bit tragic we got silly names and no units without models out of that one lost lawsuit

[jaunty dawn]

mm

its also a bit silly tho that ppl are like

look how much cheaper it is when I can just not pay for any of the design work that went into this model lol

[bright dove]

The first one is more important to me tbqh

[tired cairn]

Oh yeah. Totally

[jaunty dawn]

overall the stakes are just so much lower

compared to clothing made by literal slavery

or computers made by companies complicit in genocide

or phones using materials mined by literal slavery

[tired cairn]

I do wish GW would be more consumer friendly on e.g. rules but it seems like they mostly tolerate rules existing on the Internet (though I am guessing it helps that Wahapedia is in Russia and that country probably doesn't care about DMSC equivalents from the UK)

[glad spear]

It's also nice that they ruled that you could use proxies if they're based on the right base

[tired cairn]

Aiui the terrain is made in China. I don't know if GW also gives those workers bonuses

[bright dove]

Which terrain?

[tired cairn]

Oh? Do they still have a x% of GW model requirement?

[paper bluff]

I'll say one thing. The fanbase GW is huge

And so varied

[tired cairn]

(I think most tournaments don't care. But I think GW ones did)

[tired cairn]

My understanding was all of it?

[glad spear]

I might be wrong, it was a while since I read about it

[floral herald]

A lot of the terrain is of noticeably lower quality and different plastic from the other models I buy that

[jaunty dawn]

I think it happens sometimes with low budget bulk boxes too

though not in a while

but stuff like the kt18 release

no idea

[glad spear]

Yeah I'm just lying lol

I must've been thinking of my old LGS changing ruling

[rocky shale]

For official gw stuff yes

But you can do elaborate kitbashes or proxies

[tired cairn]

It's a bit annoying. But I get it

(I think they also disallow using third party bits, or at least 3d printed ones)

[rocky shale]

Yep

They want to sell you thier plastic

[lofty warren]

Im genuinely curious how much money GW makes on a box

[tired cairn]

Probably a lot. But gross margins aren't that useful of a metric

Their gross profit is 70%. I wouldn't be surprised if the boxes are close to that?

(their net profit margin is nearly 30%. Which is incredibly good)

[floral herald]

Yeah GW is a money printing company now

[tired cairn]

Does GW own their storefronts or are they franchised?

[lofty warren]

Yeah im just curious what each sprue costs to produce

[floral herald]

I think GW branded stores are directly operated

[tired cairn]

Oh, I know the material costs are next to nothing. Not sure on the labor costs involved

[floral herald]

Based on the gross profit numbers about 25-30% of retail price

[pastel rampart]

Literal pennies, but they have to offset the costs of the steel molds themselves which can costs tens of thousands of dollars to produce. As well as labor, of course.

[lofty warren]

Thats more than i expect honestly

[floral herald]

Yeah most of it is probably amortizing the molds

[lofty warren]

I mean id believe (given the quality of usual gw plastic) that the plastic in the sprue is worth a good chunk

[tired cairn]

Well, that will also include the boxes, manuals, packing etc. costs right?

[lofty warren]

Idk what they are using but its obviously very good at catching detail

[floral herald]

Yeah but I think the paper is cheap

[lofty warren]

The paper is definitely pennies

[tired cairn]

I expect most of the cost to be in labor of running the machine and especially putting it all into boxes? I might be underestimating the automation though

I wonder if they do plant tours

[lofty warren]

God id love a gw factory tour

Just from a production angle its pretty facinating

[floral herald]

Same

[pulsar cairn]

Show me a mini who has seen some shit

[pulsar cairn]

[past sphinx]

pain in the neck but hes walkin

[tired cairn]

It that the Lancer?

[past sphinx]

aye

hence the lance

a mere strength 20 attack

[tired cairn]

I figured it was a lance. But the angle makes it look like it could be a weird gun too

[past sphinx]

tru

[tired cairn]

This seems a bit excessive. Does it also get the lance keyword?

[past sphinx]

yes

[tired cairn]

So on the charge it is wounding basically everything on 2+. Wild

It's funny that it will hurt Custodes.... Wardens (?) less reliably then tanks

[past sphinx]

thats just because wardens are goofy

we all wanted wardens to be good and the monkey paw curled

[tired cairn]

lol

[soft willow]

It is in fact a lance and a weird gun technically.

It can shoot lightning.

[solemn gull]

I think I would fall deeper into despair knowing the hivemind has my back

[paper bluff]

Yeah yeah yeah

[mild glen]

Who is still waiting for detachments for Grotmas? Tau, Templars, Wolves, world Eaters and blood angels?

[paper bluff]

World eaters

[glad spear]

I've heard Tau is the last detachment

I think SoB are next?

[mild glen]

I've said that one. 😜

[mild glen]

Got a, source that isn't the same griping I've seen in the subreddit?

[misty violet]

GW minis are entirely made in the UK so probably pretty high, honestly