Warhammer and Such

[finite compass]

My beloved

Even with how the Deathworld Veterans list really only was competitive if you were using the Jungle rules.

Which made sense

Also how 3e Orks could straight up just steal weapons and vehicles from the 3e SM and IG codexes

[ebon forge]

Warhammer Total war III is 60% off, it is still a bit expensive for me but i got money
is worth it? I heard it has the best tutorial of the Total war Warhammer series and I have ZERO ideia how to play
but the mechanics and characterisation of the characters looks fun

[past sphinx]

i didnt scratch the digital warhammer thing for me

a very good total war game im sure

[pastel rampart]

A very fun game would've been Catachan vs the Kroot army list, since both relied heavily on jungles.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1301287803975630918/RDT_20241030_1245168443381456444187549.webp?ex=6723ee35&is=67229cb5&hm=9e897e509397beff928c5013623392b93772ba2238b3e8e0d1c8a8acb6b245cf&

[ebon forge]

I have no fucking idea how to play a Total War game too
What is a hammer and anvil

[paper bluff]

Table edges

[paper bluff]

Isn't that the battle report GW did though?

[ebon forge]

So push the enemy in the middle while you come from up and down?

[paper bluff]

https://youtu.be/vwY5absesZg?si=DJ8qCYOoGisnfq9j

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/KhK8B/201da92966.jpg

Peak.

[solemn gull]

grimdark is cool and all but have you seen those goblin green bases

[jagged dawn]

https://x.com/rowscara/status/1851727508959371516?s=46&t=oWW_NnXMz5xZU9SUUTq01g

Rowscara 🌈 | Commissions Open!! | 🐢 (@rowscara) on X

@OculusImperia

Twitter · Oct 30, 2024, 8:46 PM

[pastel rampart]

Spruced up the base.

[finite compass]

Bright primary colors, goblin-green bases, and solid pewter minis that would be lethal weapons if you put them in a sock.

Truly glorious.

Especially this fucking thing.

[floral herald]

lethal weapon

[thin ibex]

Any general tips for playing admech and specifically the explorator maniple?

[past sphinx]

get a high paying job

do not under any circumstances become depressed

[thin ibex]

Oh that's OK it would be in tts

[past sphinx]

in seriousness Kataphrons and ironstrides

[thin ibex]

And tts is specifically why I'd be playing them xD

[jagged dawn]

Honse

[thin ibex]

The Raiders do look sick

And I'm gonna have kastellans despite their looks

And an onager...

I'm not sure what I would use for melee contesting the central or other objectives

I guess kastellans can do it, rustalkers? Breachers? Electro priests?

With explorator maniple I can contest an objective with 4++ kastellans, or 4++/4+++ fulgurite electro priests with -1 to wound

Rustalkers I guess have better charges

I guess I could just sacrifice my vanguards too

To let me shoot more

I ended up here tentatively

[thin ibex]

Ohh looks like I want transports

[tired cairn]

Yeah, Maniple is pretty transport focused

[tired cairn]

I think this is basically throwing money at an opponent lol:

And someone won a tournament with a hypercrypt legion that had no monoliths?

[hushed kayak]

insane stuff, love it tho

[mental birch]

This is the cousin of the 2k points for 2k dollars isn't it

18 lascannon shots solve many problems

[jaunty dawn]

ironstriders are just like that yeah

squadron vehicle that comes one to a box

so when its good people can spam 9 (used to be 18 even) and when its bad it has to be like, unplayable

[thin ibex]

each only gets 2 shots now iirc

but with sus hits

so with 3, you can only get 6 shots at minimum

and... 12 shots at max?

[tired cairn]

It was one shot and twin linked at the start of the edition iirc. They were a lot worse then lol

75 pts for two+ lasgun shots is pretty decent though. Especially since the chassis isn't made of paper

[jaunty dawn]

its 3x3

[mental birch]

18 shots

Because they are squadron

Somehow

[thin ibex]

oh yeaaaah

they're also skitarii so get stealth

in that detach

[pulsar cairn]

they are not a brick wall

[mental birch]

Yes

[thin ibex]

but yeah i have no interest in bringing 18 of them if i were to do a tts crusade with admech

maybe a pair?

but the sydonian dragoons with taser lancers are so much more delightfully strange

[spice flicker]

It's Halloween so don't forget to leave out tributes for Nagash tonight or was that supposed to be last night?

[thin ibex]

such a neat and weird unit

hmm the real question is does my explorator maniple have an allied knight

[mental birch]

Yes

[thin ibex]

i figure a knight magaera is a fun and flavorful addition

big lightning cannon

mechanicus sworn knight down to help in the quest for archeotech

man i really want to get a second onager in, but i need points room to get more cool stuff in the list xD

i wanted to bring a transvector instead of dunerider

but the points dictated

and i wasnt willing to part ways with the stupid stilt sniper

[silk verge]

bring manipulus because he looks funny

[thin ibex]

i had one but spensive, he actually has much better effects than the skratos too

but good ol skratos just looks so silly

[jagged dawn]

https://x.com/mixuen_chan/status/1851983253487714372?s=46&t=oWW_NnXMz5xZU9SUUTq01g

Sarah ✨ (@mixuen_chan) on X

quote tweet of shame
take a Coquette Ravener 💝

Twitter · Oct 31, 2024, 1:43 PM

[pulsar cairn]

It's pretty

Like me

We have matching ribbons!

[uneven ember]

Stylin'!

[thin ibex]

recent SM big win

little bit of hero hammer goin on there

[upper bluff]

yo centurions!

[thin ibex]

only 1 vehicle too

[desert jay]

One vehicle is fine but yeah a win off three UM named guys does not excite me

[tired cairn]

That's just how many named people you need to give Bobby a break

Meanwhile poor Magnus has to direct every Thousand Sons battle

[thin ibex]

small tourney but i like how varied the list is

bjorn still feels like an auto take for champs of russ

[thin ibex]

kill team terrain kit and bits not for sale seperate yet right?

[floral herald]

For the new stuff?

[thin ibex]

yeah

i can use the old terrain stuff too right?

been thinking about picking up a terrain set of some kind

since i have 2 teams

[floral herald]

Old terrain is fine

New Volkus terrain isn’t sold separately yet

[thin ibex]

ahh ok

yeah then maybe ill look around for a old kit

[compact gate]

i think you can find the space marine half under the space marine heroes 2 set?

DG is also a heroes set, but it was japan exclusive so its got price gouged

[ebon forge]

I always hear
"Sigmar is so much better than Big E"
"Sigmar is the best!"
Then I went to read the book 'warcry' and EVEN BEFORE THE PROLOGUE:

'But cruelty is tenacious. As had been foreseen, the great alliance of
gods and men tore itself apart. Myth and legend crumbled into
Chaos. Darkness flooded the realms. Torture, slavery and fear
replaced the glory that came before. Sigmar turned his back on the
mortal kingdoms, disgusted by their fate. He fixed his gaze instead
on the remains of the world he had lost long ago, brooding over its
charred core, searching endlessly for a sign of hope. And then, in
the dark heat of his rage, he caught a glimpse of something
magnificent. He pictured a weapon born of the heavens. A beacon
powerful enough to pierce the endless night. An army hewn from
everything he had lost.'

Sigmar: WELP, Chaos is here again, time to look in the old world for inspiration, fucking mortals.

But the world he made before chaos started their usual fuckery does sound nice to live in

[past sphinx]

Its the Emperor Karl Franz whos cool

Sigmars a barbarian king just without all the gloss and 17 foot tall Akkadian oiled muscles

[orchid venture]

peak space marines

[floral herald]

wow those guys are huge haha

Old school proportions combined with primaris scale makes them look so big

[orchid venture]

they’re not quite old school proportions, they’re closer to the primaris in terms of limb length and stuff, but yeah they chonk

[floral herald]

Oh, that makes sense

I like the old school heavy bolter

The over the shoulder setup is interesting

[orchid venture]

it was shockingly hard to design to work with the backpack and stuff

[paper bluff]

Are you the one that made the old school looking cryptek?

[orchid venture]

nope?

i don’t know to what the reference. i’m the one with the two different custom guard armies

[uneven ember]

hell yeah

[orchid venture]

(and also these tau lol)

[paper bluff]

There was some one here that was making a model of a cryptek that matched up to this era of necron and I really wish I could find them again

[uneven ember]

good times

[mild glen]

taps mic
I would like more space dwarves. Please drop the book already, GW.

[paper bluff]

The necromunda lads?

[mild glen]

Votann

[paper bluff]

There's 2 type

Ironhead

But the fancy kin

[past sphinx]

ironheads got better terminators

[past sphinx]

you dont need advanced AI for this kind of peak performance

[paper bluff]

It i squint I see the lineage with

[ebon forge]

Is he on AoS?

[past sphinx]

uhh

thats a

well

[ebon forge]

IT'S HIM
EGG ARMOR

[ebon forge]

Oh...
He did not survive it seems.

[past sphinx]

hes probably the celestant prime

[paper bluff]

Not the most egg armor GW has made

[ebon forge]

Who needs to look around

The Primaris version Claw made sure was...
Imaginative /j

[past sphinx]

HE GOT KILLED BY FUCKING HARKON

blood knights are sick but fucking wallach harkon

[ebon forge]

The End times was rough for everyone, the writers as well

From the behind the scenes, it was like...
"Ok guys we have a whole 10 books to write, we are doing gr-"
John Warhammer kicks the door open
"END TIMES, FANTASY IS DEAD, AOS IS THE NEW COOL, KILL IT. HERE TWO PARAGRAPHS AS A GUIDE, YOU HAVE A YEAR. AND 3~4 BOOKS TO FINISH THE SETTING"

[past sphinx]

Now its possible hes the cestant prime as like their the representative of Sugmar and franz kinda was that what with his connection to Ghal Maraz

BUT

it would be so much fucking cooler if it was Harry the Hammer under there instead

THE FINEST CREATURE TO WIELD THIS WEAPON this random norsican whos held that hammer for decades

he also went out to a vampire count funny enough

[wild fog]

I will never stop harping about this

The reveal that Malekith was good actually if he just held on two more seconds

One of the most unhinged "I give up" End Times moments

[balmy wave]

Oh yeah the only thing worse than whatever the fuck the Elves suffered was the way that Thorgrim Grudgebearer died

And actually also Manlet von Cumstain being the reason the world exploded

[untold swallow]

https://vxtwitter.com/idioticsynergy/status/1852028157639168352

[untold swallow]

'probably' as the Celestant Prime wields Ghal Maraz

[past sphinx]

Could be a very convincing paper mache

[tepid stratus]

One of the few things we know about celestant prime is that he was an emperor in his past life

[thin ibex]

I tried to fit it all into one screenshot but if anyone is wondering, it's nothing but infantry and leaders on the guard

[thin ibex]

anyone know if there is a way to play combat patrol on tts without tracking it all seperately

i realize you cant just make the patrols in newrecruit

because they come with their own names and rules iirc

[floral herald]

Yeah you do just need to track it separately

But all the rules you need are like 8 pages

[thin ibex]

thats fair

i think they're up on wahapedia now too

buddy might be first timing 40k as his space wolves combat patrol this month

figure combat patrol is a nice low impact way to do it

[paper bluff]

I honestly have no clue if they are

Also you know what could be fun with nee space wolves codex. A detachment for called "the wolf spear" in reference to their one successor chapter ||that didn't go traitor or feral||

[thin ibex]

you have a limited unit selection, you have fewer strategems, you have fewer secondaries

man i been talking bouit wolfspears here forever xD

i even had a couple prospective crusade lists

i usually build them in vanguard spearhead

honestly a potential appeal to me as aplayer and combat patrol is that you very likely do not need to commit 2 to 4 hours of your time to a single game

and since the patrols already have their models and rules laid out

its a lot quicker to pick up and play

something i may try to do is build the most likely patrols my players will play and then have the msaved and ready to go in tts

[floral herald]

I think combat patrol is pretty good

I am annoyed by the CSM one but that’s minor

The legionaries just have a weird loadout

[thin ibex]

i think theres plenty to gripe about with them, theres a lot traded away to be strictly controlled like they are

i just find that theres a lot appealing to me about the format too

one of the tau ones is interesting in that the strike team is half pulse rifle and pulse carbine

oh man looking at the guard combat patrol, seamingly weak models but the strats are crazy, especially the 2 cp one

2 cp to halve all enemy movement, halve advance rolls, and simply cannot declare charges that turn

incidentally the more recent ones seem to have weaker models but actually has advice on use and application

[tired cairn]

I think all the combat patrol units are in New Recruit if you turn on one of the right options. But it's the morning so my brain might be lying to me

[thin ibex]

i couldnt find them but im not saying youre wrong, i maybe cant find hte right options

there IS stuff you can't seem to recreate in newrecruit too

like the shas ui of a strike team cant have a pulse carbine anymore i guess

[tired cairn]

... I feel extra crazy because I thought it could handle boarding patrol too. I am probably confusing editions

[thin ibex]

nah youre not crazy they used to be drop down options where you create an army roster

there was boarding patrol and crusade iirc

but i dont think combat patrol was there

[tired cairn]

They might have deleted it from the regular list when they got rid of boarding patrol etc. I remember being confused at seeing them

Boarding actions? It's not boarding patrol lol

I wonder why they did this 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

I think it depends on the faction?

a lot of the time the boarding patrol stuff wasn't really set up very well though

[spice flicker]

If they ever make a game with character creation and the gloomspite git are a common enemy, how long until you think people will try and see how close they can get to recreating goblin slayer?

[quaint compass]

For the people who do that kind of thing, no time

[pulsar cairn]

is Goblin Slayer bad? I know nothing about it

[spice flicker]

The first episode/chapter is pretty rough to put mildly but overall it's not a bad story imo though isn't exactly groundbreaking with its story. The roughness comes from how it isn't afraid to make goblins into horrible monsters that took lessons in tactics form tucker's kobolds and act in ways that are horribly apprehensible.

The titular character is someone who goes around and does almost exclusively goblin slaying quests (with help from some allies that tag along with him) to try and kill them all after they destroyed his home as a child to say they left him mentally scarred and traumatized would be an understatement. Because the quests to kill goblins are typically low ranking and other major threats exists in the background, the kingdom's military and most adventurers ignore the goblin slaying quests and so he does all he can even though the goblins are essentially a skaven level threat in the setting.

[thin ibex]

To be fair, the character is, in their plain elements, a character who has a specific hatred of goblins and has developed techniques and strategies for killing them. That's not an incredibly out there concept

oh you meant the show as a campaign

not the character

[pulsar cairn]

I see

[hard whale]

it's a decent concept but they really seem to enjoy depicting the awful things that the goblins do

[thin ibex]

i was gonna say that in warhamme at least, goblin slayer as a character is effectively just par for hte course

and the awfulness of things is also a little bit, but if anyone tries to belabor depicting it in detail, that table is scuffed and not worth playing at

[upper bluff]

That was the exact experience I had my first time playing 5e, everything was cool and then like 7 sessions in the GM introduced Goblin Slayer goblins and the vibes were ruined forever

So yeah, kinda nice warhammer doesn't get that icky (usually)

[thin ibex]

I generally presume that content exists in warhammer but there is literally never a reason to introduce it or front stage it; unless the whole party is aware, consensual, and looking to explore the topic.

[silk verge]

it is preferable to just not talk about the whole daemonculaba thing

[spice flicker]

What are some good agendas to take for chaos knights? We're playing with pariah Nexus and my army consists of a knight abominant, and 2 stalkers with aura of terror on one.

[thin ibex]

is there anywhere that has a list of generic agendas?

[spice flicker]

https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k10ed/the-rules/pariah-nexus/#Agendas

Playing against guard later tonight

Artillery heavy with Medusa, rapier laser battery, heavy weapon squad carrying missile launchers, 2 hydras, and an assortment of kreigers and cadians.

I'm thinking "to the last" and "re-establish communications" but wasn't sure.

[thin ibex]

Reap a tally tends to be safe for knights no?

[spice flicker]

Maybe

[mental birch]

My leg hurts

But I'm still not on the skull

Hahahaha

Guy asks everyone he beats to sign a plastic skull

[spice flicker]

Nice

Congrats on the win

Hmmm... to do that battle on the waffle house battlefield or not for the first battle of the crusade? (It's a steam worksop mod for tts me and my group found and enjoy just for the fact it's a battlefield centered around a waffle house.)

[thin ibex]

Up to you

Really

[runic swallow]

Gotta say, that’s a fun bit

[final tide]

buiiilding

[runic swallow]

What’s the gizmo on the right?

[balmy wave]

Thara a teleport homer

Often dropped by flyers or from low orbit by ships, sometimes placed by Scout or Vanguard marines

It provides a signal for the Astartes voidships to lock onto and aid the vessel's teleportarium

[faint galleon]

I did not know teleport homers were usually depicted when I read the space sharks book, wherein an apothecary surreptitiously plants a homer in some topiary

very funny now to imagine walking in with a humongous cylinder and walking away empty handed, whistling casually

[final tide]

yah the new teleport homer

[spice flicker]

Opponent has decided the feud between imperial guard and chaos knights, to kick off the crusade will be held in the streets and ruins surrounding a waffle house.

[runic swallow]

That’s one way to cause a Waffle House to close for the day

[desert jay]

Just snuck it around in a big box of medical supplies, as one does

[spice flicker]

Nah the waffle house is still staying open serving guests aka the wounded guardsmen.

If a waffle house will operate in severe weather they can operate in a chaos knight assault.

[jagged dawn]

Hmm, honestly the GSC combat patrol looks great as a way to start an army since we like the look of the outlander claw detachment

And the combat patrol is mostly units that fall under those rules

[spice flicker]

Dark eldar combat patrol with the vehicles is nice

[jagged dawn]

plus we already have a unit of acolyte hybrids painted up

[orchid venture]

aggressors!

[jaunty dawn]

those guys agressin!

[orchid venture]

my ultramarines blue finally arrived so painting... soon...

tomorrow is my day off and im gonna paint

[jaunty dawn]

I hate when I drop my helmet and go to pick it up but then someone starts attacking me so I have to shoot them but I have a bad back so I cant stand up very fast

[orchid venture]

loool

wait wait its actually way more rad

[sweet solar]

yoooo

[jaunty dawn]

yeah no it is very cool

[orchid venture]

space marine helmets are just a megaman helmet with a gas mask bit

lol

[jaunty dawn]

its canon

[upper canopy]

Congrats on making their silly little shoulder rockets actually look cool

Herculean task

[unreal cosmos]

I already like Agressors but this whole army has been great

is Erika sliding into the Marine Pit

[bright dove]

Probably, they're good at doing that.

[final tide]

v v happy with my building today

[pulsar cairn]

can the dreadnought be named skully?

[final tide]

sorry no,, he’s meant to pair with my other Venerable Dread

So he’s the Knight of Thorns, to match my Knight of Roses

[pulsar cairn]

well at least they are cute together

[uneven ember]

I dig the hooded Dred.
"Even in death I commit to the Aesthetic."

[final tide]

the head is off the DA upgrade sprue which is a lotta fun

i do not remember if my deathwing are still allowed to swap all powerfists for powerswords but. no one can stop me. i'm making them do it.

they are g-d damn space knights they're taking swords

[upper canopy]

YEAAAAAAAH THE OLDHAMMER SATURATION

[junior robin]

decided since it was already painted up to use my non-legal world eater chaos lord as test subject for project " 40k² "

[floral herald]

Scrungly as hell I like him

[junior robin]

body is the 3.5 metal chaos lord, one of the first minis I got with plastic possessed arms/head

now to build the rest of the army + another army to fight against.

[pulsar cairn]

I imagine space marines never retire, but do they ever move them out of the frontlines for different kinds of work such as logistics and whatnot?

[bright dove]

No, not really.

Space Marine retirement looks like Bjorn.

[thin ibex]

space marine never retire yeah, sometimes they can become less combat centric in that they might be working in the chapter forges or librarium or so on

Or like chief apothecary

they area always valid/capable/obligated to battle in the name of the emperor

[bright dove]

See people like Dante who would really rather retire at this point thank you.

[thin ibex]

but they can take on responsibilities that require them to do more than fight on the front lines

[pulsar cairn]

interesting

[tired cairn]

Why has Dante been around so long without succumbing to the Black Rage?

[bright dove]

To suffer I guess.

[floral herald]

Yeah it happens sometimes, one of the books has a blood angel who’s pretty seriously wounded and is rotated to train new recruits instead

It’s relatively rare

[pulsar cairn]

so it does happen it just isnt common

[solemn gull]

sometimes they get made into battleship captains or other roles like that

[pulsar cairn]

i could also see it as some kind of punishment for doing something dumb in the frontlines the way i see it every space marine wants to be out there

maybe not being made into a battleship captain tho, that's probably reserved for the good peeps

[solemn gull]

well the specific marine who got that job was in the book Spear of the Emperor and he got fucked up by the primaris process so he was a special case but also space marines do captain their own ships pretty often

[pulsar cairn]

didnt they have regular humans do that back in the heresy days? or was lotara a special case?

[solemn gull]

lotara was a special case

[pulsar cairn]

right

[bright dove]

Lotara is very much a special case and I don't think anyone but the World Eaters would have been able to handle her being the captain.

[pulsar cairn]

she was scary

i do think the lion would have liked her tho

[thin ibex]

Humans arent a super special case, Ultamarines regularly have human ship captains

generally punishment i feel would not be to put them in a position of leadership or teaching unless its a form of learning for that marine as well

Like Cato Sicarius got passed over for captainship iirc and he then went on to get humbled and learn some lessons

[uneven ember]

I do just want to say that, while I realize there's a wide degree of variance between individuals and Chapters in both temperament and doctrine, on the whole the Astartes strike me as the sort of people who file logistics as "nerd shit" and do just enough with it that they can dump the rest on some long-suffering chapter serf

[tired cairn]

Though I'm sure ultramarines are the exception there lol

[pulsar cairn]

their dad is for sure

[bright dove]

Just a little guy

[orchid venture]

and it’s his birthday!

… also hes the first model i’ve ever painted pretty sure

[solemn gull]

It’s always fun to find out one of your models is legally old enough to drink

[tired cairn]

It really shows off your improvements as a mini painter!

[mild glen]

I just gave myself the dumbest idea for a Astartes chapter: the Storm Chasers.
All they do is harass one specific Tyranid hive fleet, sitting in their ships and sending a company on the daily to fuck it up a little, then return to the barge and have a feast about it.

They comply with the Codex, because it's easier than not doing that, but because they're so busy they just neglect to update the Munitorum and/or Administatum about any successor chapters they drop off somewhere.

Which is so dumb and sounds like the type of chapter lore you'd write when you only have a buddy that plays nids.

[solemn gull]

little do they know the hive fleet has let them push so deep into tyranid space that they are now encircled

[faint galleon]

imo cool

[mental birch]

Something something target rich environment

[desert jay]

Successor chapter shows up like “hey, here’s a bunch of status reports and our geneseed tithe” and the administratum is like “who the fuck are you?”

[mild glen]

And, naturally, since the Storm Chasers don't have any Psykers (probably, they are always in the Warp Shadow from the hive tenderil) nobody can talk to them

[upper canopy]

How do they warp jump

[desert jay]

Navigators aren’t psykers, they’re a weird different thing

[mild glen]

I have ... no idea. Do you even need to Warp jump to stay apace with a Tyranid fleet? Aren't they ridiculously slow?

[upper bluff]

it makes getting away easier

[floral herald]

Yes they use weird space warping FTL separate from the warp

[past sphinx]

high speed fart gas

[mild glen]

Fuck it. Nids forcibly disconnected from the hive mind pulling their ships like chariots.

They can have a little xenohersey, as a treat

Aspirants go on Space walks to make sure the synapse organelle doesn't grow back or whatever.

[sour sequoia]

Store is doing a 1k tourney

Am I big brain

Necrons
Hypercrypt Legion
Incursion (1000 Points)

CHARACTERS

Imotekh the Stormlord (100 Points)
  • Warlord
  • 1x Gauntlet of Fire
  • 1x Staff of the Destroyer

Plasmancer (90 Points)
  • 1x Plasmic lance
  • Enhancements: Dimensional Overseer

BATTLELINE

Immortals (150 Points)
  • 10x Immortal
     ◦ 10x Close combat weapon
     ◦ 10x Tesla carbine

OTHER DATASHEETS

Lokhust Destroyers (35 Points)
  • 1x Close combat weapon
  • 1x Gauss cannon

Lokhust Destroyers (35 Points)
  • 1x Close combat weapon
  • 1x Gauss cannon

Lychguard (170 Points)
  • 10x Lychguard
     ◦ 10x Dispersion Shield
     ◦ 10x Hyperphase sword

Monolith (400 Points)
  • 4x Gauss flux arc
  • 1x Particle whip
  • 1x Portal of exile```

[floral herald]

Looks cool to me

[sour sequoia]

I started this with the intent to bring two monoliths and be store villain for a day

There are two confirmed painted monoliths in the state of Montana and I’ve painted both of them myself to parade quality 🫠

By god I’m gonna use em

[compact gate]

there's a third, actually

"space idiots fall upwards into saving the day, somehow"

see the infinite and the divine and the ciaphas cain series

also every ork book

[thin ibex]

Seem like a fun Mechanicus crusade?

[mild glen]

We ❤️ Ciaphus Cain, The God-Emperor's favourite idiot. (Yes, I know Cain isn't actually dumb, shush. It's for The Bit.)

[meager quail]

I'd broaden this to "people struggle to do the right thing with mixed success in a universe that gives them every conceivable incentive to do the wrong thing"

[compact gate]

i feel like that's what you get when you mix stupid idiot and meditations on the dehumanizing nature of war

[meager quail]

I suppose

[compact gate]

orks absolutely are not doing the right thing

[meager quail]

Fair

[pulsar cairn]

they are doing the "proper" thing

whatever it is they think is proper

[uneven ember]

they're 'avin a proppa go

[thin ibex]

Orks act in such a manner that is supported by their instincts, culture, and values. They don't subscribe to the notion of objective ethics

[upper canopy]

Orks are doing the right thing because they're killing more fascists than anyone else

[pulsar cairn]

for all the wrong reasons but yeah

[desert jay]

They really outrunning the Tyranids in kill count?

[thin ibex]

Can an ork be a fascist? Because then they get double value with infighting and imperial killing

[lofty warren]

I dont think orc politics can be nationalist

In any way we would identify

[meager quail]

Orks are definitely authoritarian

But not fascist per se

[pulsar cairn]

you can be bad without being a fascist

[meager quail]

Yep

I would assert that orks follow a variation on Legalism

[floral herald]

9000 year head start probably helps

[pulsar cairn]

What's legalism?

[floral herald]

Stormboyz are

[meager quail]

Chinese philosophy of absolute monarchism with a strong belief in the absoluteness of law

Legalists believe people are intrinsically crooked and must be straightened out by the strong hand of a state that treats everyone (except the monarch) essentially equally

It's very much a philosophy that emerged out of decades of civil war

[pulsar cairn]

i can see it

[meager quail]

Orks are kind of legalist but with a very, very strange sense of what good behavior consists of

[bright dove]

Even longer thanks to the War in Heaven!

[floral herald]

Do… necrons count as fascists?

I honestly don’t know how their society worked that well

I thought it was like feudalism

[pulsar cairn]

they are bad that's for sure idk what kind of bad tho

[tired cairn]

I've seen the storm boys specifically be referred to as fascist. But it's typically only a phase lol

I don't think the underlings are smart enough for Necrons to be fascist. But yeah I thought it was feudalism too

Orks are definitely ork-supremicist, but everyone in 40k thinks their species is superior outside maybe some tau and their auxiliaries

[bright dove]

And Tyranids.

[tired cairn]

They are on an entirely different axis from everyone else lol

[meager quail]

I think also if a umie could behave proppa orky, orks would accept them without question

It's just that their moral axis presupposes "ork = good"

[pulsar cairn]

the did have a lot of respect for Yarrik

i think they saw him as proppa

sure they were fighting each other but orks fight each other all the time

[tired cairn]

eh, there have been a lot of discriminatory regimes that let someone join the favored group under extraordinary circumstances. But that might be taking this conversation this too seriously lol

[lofty warren]

Good behaviour: being large

Necrons have shades of fascism but i think that just emerges from their primary motive being a sort of revanchism

[wild fog]

Considering that being "proper Orky" is sufficiently large, brutally violent, always on a war footing and out to kill anything smaller than you, it's... not all that of a good thing

[uneven ember]

I do feel like the T'au are frequently doing the "some species are more equal than others" thing

[tired cairn]

Yeah definitely

[upper canopy]

Like a 15 thousand year headstart

[desert jay]

They were only killing significant numbers of fascists from like War of the Beast forwards tho

Still a ~10k year head start I guess

[upper canopy]

An ork is the closest anyone but Horus got to killing the Emperor

[pulsar cairn]

were the necrons around during the heresy?

[pastel rampart]

Very very few. Trazyn and the Silent King, technically.

Well, mostly guesses on Trazyn being awake at the time. He woke up prematurely but it's not said when exactly.

[mental birch]

We meming legalism in 40k?

[brittle salmon]

Infinite and the Divine confirms Trazyn not just being awake during the Heresy, but even earlier

He was probably among the first

Fella was active for a long ass time

[wild fog]

Which makes Trayzan canonically the first Horus Heresy fan.

Out there collecting figures before anyone else

[bright dove]

Trazyn is awake for a long-ass time.

Also he still mourns that he wasn't able to get the Emperor before they put him on the Throne.

[thin ibex]

Yeah I don't think traz was first but he was definitely amongst the earliest

[past sphinx]

you know ive always wondered aboutthe guardsmen heads on CSM trophy racks

what must those hardasses have done to end up as a trophy

[thin ibex]

Does suggest that they don't put just anyone up on the trophy rack

[past sphinx]

yeah i mean you dont just slap joe duggan local admin officer who died from a stray brick up there

also the CSM terminator kit is interesting, its got the old MK7 heads but also MKX and grey knights?

and old guard heads

just a nice little time capsule

[ebon forge]

Slowly understanding Total war units type and actually DOING my first Hammer and Anvil is an experience I will never have it again

[past sphinx]

some people chase that high for the rest of their lives

[runic swallow]

Maybe you’ll do an envelopment someday, that’s some good shit

[past sphinx]

this just in, votann are fun to paint

[thin ibex]

Dwarves is just anvil mostly

Hammer in the form of hammerers

Or really, gyrocopters

[verbal ermine]

Even in Death, I still Surf (and hang ten!)

[paper bluff]

Isn't there a votann book out now?

[past sphinx]

Me when I got a second computer monitor

Also holy hell what a jaw

[paper bluff]

New necromunda model?

[upper bluff]

Do you think the Chad face is also a mutation?

[junior robin]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/evwtxgsy/no-secrets-are-safe-from-silberlant-sevos-the-greatest-whisper-merchant-of-all/

[upper bluff]

Oh that lump is a medical thing not a cancerous growth

The chin is all natural then

[junior robin]

the short verision of his backstory is ||tried yo connect and upload his brain into a STC, failed but got tech-based superpowers||

[paper bluff]

Should have talked to the Kin SMH

[junior robin]

speaking of kin

[paper bluff]

Old world?

[south axle]

Ye

[junior robin]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ih7cad0a/help-your-dwarfen-armies-shoot-straight-and-true-with-the-ingenious-burlok-damminson/

[floral herald]

M41 goon cave

[paper bluff]

https://www.goonhammer.com/

Is that where they post from?

[spice flicker]

In previous editions regarding crusade rules, were there any mechanics for upgrading units from one model into another? Like a SM lieutenant into a captain, armiger into knight, Cadre fireblade into commander, etc?

[tepid stratus]

Only one I can think of is a chaos lord becoming a daemon prince

[spice flicker]

That's thr only one I could think of too

[zinc field]

Both flavors of knights had it as a requisition in 9th

[spice flicker]

Was thinking of house ruling something so players can reward well preforming generic units (such as the guard player who has a kreig squad sgt who has survived every battle so far into a future Marshal (and so I can upgrade my leader (the Blind king) from a knight abominant into a knight tyrant.)

[south axle]

I know ImpKnights had an upgrade that made Armigers have a share-buff like a big knight

[zinc field]

They also had a chance of failure

[spice flicker]

Had a couple of players interested in something like that but not sure how to implement/price it.

[zinc field]

Here we go

[spice flicker]

I know custodes also I had something like that:

Codex Custodes, 9th, p.76

Honored Merit :

Bought this requisition when a CORE ADEPTUS CUSTODES unit achieve the Heroic or Legendary rank. Add to your order a CHARACTER ADEPTUS CUSTODES assigned to the same Shield-Ost than the unit. The character unit start with the same amount of experience points and earn the correspondant numbers of Battle honors.
Once done, take down the exp points of the base unit to 16 as well as any battle honors for it to only have two of them.

Should I try and house rule a generic variant of these two rules for all factions or no?

[spice flicker]

Thoughts?

[thin ibex]

Iirc there was turning a marine character into a dread at one point

And space wolves had turning a squad into a single character

[paper bluff]

I think i know about that bit of the lore if a squad dies but one is still alive that wolf basically goes on vendetta

[thin ibex]

Yep, the Lone Wolf, once was a unit then became a crusade mechanic

Effectively let's you turn a squad with at least 2 battle scars into a character with the same amount of xp

[spice flicker]

I was thinking of making it 1 or 2 RP but you can replace the squad or character model with another squad or model but with the caveat that you can't go over your roster total and any battle honors/scars move over to the new unit as well. May or may not have it also reduce the total xp on the unit reduced by half to show lack of experience with new equipment/role. Thoughts?

Probably 1 rp for promoting from a squad to another squad while 2 RP for promoting from a squad or character model to a single character model. In case there are weapon modifications then those will need to be rerolled.

Might also make it to where there are certain characters (captain. Shield captain, Archon, hive Tyrants, neurotyrants, etc) that are unable to receive promotions but can be promoted into due to nowhere to go from there. (In the tyranids case I think it can be explained that the biomass is being repurposed into a new entity aka the tyrant.)

Whatcha think?

[chilly scroll]

just dropping my friend's osl practice here 'cause it's baller

[pastel rampart]

Really good OSL but like

god my bugbear is people painting really well but forgetting the really obvious mold lines

[past sphinx]

Thats just where they welded to armor bits together

[jagged dawn]

https://x.com/nergil911/status/1853547694775783543?s=46&t=oWW_NnXMz5xZU9SUUTq01g

Matt Yoder (@Nergil911) on X

Finished up my eradicators for the sharks.
#warhammercommunity
#nerdlings
#warhammer
#wepaintminis
#paintingwarhammer

Twitter · Nov 4, 2024, 9:19 PM

[past sphinx]

Primaris sharks always look a little off to me

Incongruous

[paper bluff]

Lore vs. Table top

[pastel rampart]

They need those shark-themed helmets.

[jagged dawn]

we get that

also this has randomly made our brain start spinning the idea we had for a Retributors army of space marines

because grey can work well for space marines if you add some contrast

[pale narwhal]

And bonding studs on greaves and shoulders. They look too clean without them imo

[jagged dawn]

the minor problem with wanting to build a space marine army is twofold

1. we still hate painting faces and space marines suffer a lot from the "important guy doesn't wear a helmet" trope
2. there are too many goddamn units and characters and looking at their list gives us a headache

[faint galleon]

could you not just put extra helmets on the guys

[jagged dawn]

I mean, yeah we could but some of the sculpts are weird

[tired cairn]

Solution: Only pick units where the leaders have their faces covered

[jagged dawn]

like the terminator captain

indeed we could but honestly we have to get better at faces eventually and the basic "space marine" combat patrol comes with a terminator captain which doesn't have a helmet included in the sprue

saying that though the different space marine combat patrols are kinda funny. Some are more basic "a character, some elites, and some regular troops" (eg space marine, DA, and BA)

Then you get stuff like the black templars who apparently get to bring an entire tank (well apc but still)

or the space wolf kit with it's baby carrier

[pastel rampart]

For 1, I can say after playing around with Vallejo Xpress Dwarf Flesh that it's a really good choice for just getting some dang skin tone down without any fuss.

[paper bluff]

I hate painting faces enough i put a helmet on a character

[past sphinx]

i intimidate my enemies by using every unhelmeted option

their all protagonists

[runic swallow]

I think Charcharadon Reavers make a lot of sense

Or whoever the spooky scary guys are

[thin ibex]

Carch Reivers make a huge amount of sense imo

[past sphinx]

I just always reckoned the appeal was how antique and peculiar they are

Also ain't no fucking way their raven guard

Probably chimeric but there's atleast some WE or BA in there

[unreal cosmos]

In all honesty: why

Oh these guys are big and scary they must have some of that Big Scary Primarch blood in 'em

[untold swallow]

Also if we wanna go down that road, why not Raven Guard?

They are noted as being very good at stealth

They just use that stealth to get close before the chainfist revs

[unreal cosmos]

I also just think that it's dumb to always prescribe behavior to geneseed.

[untold swallow]

There's some fun to be had playing to or against type

My Dark Angels successors are open to all their members about the Fallen, but as a consequence only number 300 for example

But that's of course when you're more actively playing with what geneseed a chapter is succeeded from

Carcharadons... feel like that doesn't really matter

They have enough of their own sauce that their geneseed feels inconsequential

[thin ibex]

Carchs seem absolutely raven guard imo

It's not just personality, it's rank structure and strategic goals

[jaunty dawn]

plus terran raven guard is very different from post corax

but also part of the whole deal with the split chapters is that it meant cultures were even more able to diverge

like black templars, red talons, nemesis chapter, etcc

[misty violet]

Red Talons mentioned

I was going to bring them up as well as a good example of even second generation chapters being pretty different from the first founding

Partly because as second founding chapters they split off very distinct parts of the original legion

[floral herald]

https://fixupx.com/RhysSullivan/status/1853273224047702479

This is probably what the maze of Tzeentch is like

[orchid venture]

space marine achieved

[thin ibex]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/nqiwdhdv/armies-on-parade-2024-watch-the-awards-ceremony-and-see-the-winning-entries/

[past sphinx]

Its admittedly the whole blood rage thing

Getting lost in the violence

Though their geneseed is absolutely fucked and mutation does funny things in space hammer 10 million

[meager quail]

Hey warhammer and such

I have an important question

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/931622744121045032/1303326548316655676/Jessica_Skin_1.webp?ex=672b58ef&is=672a076f&hm=d62755fae6a90378010c61d455dfbbc75f50c69988e51c90c2d770a3834790e2&

Is this the Catgirl Death Korps

[pulsar cairn]

maw

[hard whale]

It's a Catgirl Death Korps

[spice flicker]

That looks like she would work alongside the Death Guard had they stayed loyal.

[pulsar cairn]

btw

what would usually happen to folks from traitor legions that choose to remain loyal and didnt get purged?

i know some got back to the imperium like dantioch and ended up dying later on

but what if they survived the heresy?

would they get integrated into a legion or what?

[floral herald]

They likely get folded into a chapter and their origins get shrouded because of the shame

This is the source for all of those “X chapter is actually traitor geneseed” theories

Like the blood ravens (though I think it’s implausible that they’re actually Tsons because of the Rubric) or Silver Skulls

[upper canopy]

Wait yeah

How the fuck are they thousand son Marines

[bright dove]

I mean, if the geneseed is still on file...

[floral herald]

It’d be really obvious because the Rubric of Ahriman would turn people you implanted it into into dust :p

[pulsar cairn]

i only know of one loyalist Thousand son and he was away from his home planet during the space wolves's invasion

and even then the lad became a grey knight

[pulsar cairn]

but yeah this makes lots of sense

[bright dove]

Does the Rubric actually reach successor chapters?

[floral herald]

Yes insofar as it happened forward and backward in time and hit all the Tsons

Also got some before it was cast

[thin ibex]

At the time they had no successors, so successors would be posy rubric

Post

Since you know legion vs chapter, the tsons were just a big legion

[pulsar cairn]

so you couldnt have enough of them to form a full chapter

[jaunty dawn]

chapters were already around

[pulsar cairn]

hi Penny

[jaunty dawn]

they just were just under a unified command structure

hiiii

[pulsar cairn]

so the dark angels really are a legion in a trenchcoat

[pastel rampart]

I believe it only affected those Tsons on the Planet of Sorcerers at the time of casting.

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/2PhNbelYg9

This is the breakdown I’m looking at

[pastel rampart]

Future geneseed implants wouldn't be turned to dust I think, though they might face the same debilitating mutations that originally prompted the spell.

[floral herald]

I think it’s sort of unclear because the fluff has been written multiple ways over the decades

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it varies

but the most extreme telling is like, acausal

but either way I don't think you can 1ksons without either rubric or flesh change and pre-magnus flesh change at that

short of whatever gk nonsense anyway

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/JOdECXazq2
apparently the Ahriman Omnibus is the most extreme one yeah - if you’re a Tson in the future the rubric reaches through time and gets you according to it

[pulsar cairn]

doesnt Ahriman want to reverse the rubric?

that's kind of ironic

Also did i say that right? Or would "revert" be the correct word for my sentence to make sense?

[jaunty dawn]

I think reverse is more correct overall

but either works

good job ^^

[meager quail]

???!!!

[pulsar cairn]

I think penny meant gw

[jaunty dawn]

nah grey knights

[pulsar cairn]

Oh right

[jaunty dawn]

an aspect of magnus is involved in their founding iirc

[upper canopy]

Speaking of GK

Apparently the blood ravens thousand sons thing was one guy being really insistent

And then no one else wanted it and actively refuted it

By hammering the Blood Ravens being GK descendent

[jaunty dawn]

oh wild

[floral herald]

When I first got into 40K I just assumed the blood ravens were Blood Angels successors

[jaunty dawn]

thats what you're meant to think for sure

[floral herald]

I didn’t actually know anything about the Blood Angels I just assumed the blood drop logo was the link

[pastel rampart]

Well, we're not sure when the rubric was cast, so in the case of Janus I'd think the ritual he went through either protected him from the spell or changed him enough to not be affected.

[floral herald]

Now I think it’s funny to imagine them as Blood Angels who replaced the Red Thirst with the Larceny Thirst

[pulsar cairn]

it aint stealing if you just found it

[jaunty dawn]

but also it's really funny cause I've been playing DoW and gabriel angelos is basically from the planet Word in the Bearer system

and had it exterminatused after finding chaos corruption

[floral herald]

True

[pastel rampart]

Actually, given that Janus's transformation got rid of the flesh-curse, I wonder if the rubric is tied specifically to the flesh-curse inherent in Tson geneseed and that the removal of it (magical or otherwise) prevents them from getting turned into an ashtray.

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[floral herald]

I think that’s plausible

[pastel rampart]

See also: cursed foundings.

[jaunty dawn]

the survivors got a lot out of it

[floral herald]

Since Cawl was supposedly able to make Tsons without dust

[jaunty dawn]

both the intended cure and superpowers

[pulsar cairn]

Cawl is more competent than Ahriman when it comes to dealing with dust problem

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, Cawl likely removed the flesh-curse flaw from the geneseed. Other attempts doubtlessly happened, which is how we get some weird shit ala cursed foundings (oh no I'm on fire/have spikes)

[spice flicker]

One theory i heard for the blood Ravens is they're word bearer successors

[jaunty dawn]

the wb relationship with psykers is definitely more accurate than ts

but also idrk if that means much

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... if for the crusade I'm a part of i wanted to jokingly have 2 knights named "The Crimson Devil" and "The White Comet" as a bit of a gundam joke, which chaos knights actually would work best for that joke (as in most fitting?)

[paper bluff]

Tbh, most of them are if they have successors. The dark angels have the inner circle, the fists have the last wall, the ultramarines have read dad's book so much that they can seamlessly work together

[bright dove]

Space wolves laughed at the codex

[upper canopy]

Space Wolves also die a lot and have shit gene seed so they're just a chapter for the most part

[paper bluff]

The raven gaurd work best with small teams. The white scars would be great to see large numbers, the wolves end up keeping their numbers low with the selection process. WAIT! The angels, did they have a thing? I know a bunch of the successors came together to save baal

But was their a formal thing?

[bright dove]

The BA are mostly trying to keep their headspace good

[upper canopy]

The BA have the thing that they all die on a weekly basis and need to be refunded by successors

So most Blood Angels are actually successor Marines for the most part

Until all of THOSE guys died and were replaced by Primaris

[junior robin]

finally, skull

[spice flicker]

Khorne

[junior robin]

my first thought was vampires but it does remind me of the old bloodthirster 🤔

[pulsar cairn]

Finally, me

[meager quail]

The Space Wolves are less an actual legion and more an excuse to have very large bearded men who run around yelling and ignoring the consequences of their actions, afaict

And also werewolves

[pulsar cairn]

Woof

[desert jay]

There are a lot of "successor chapter with thematic name" out there, but it also makes me think of Raven Guard

[paper bluff]

Some one has fan made "the vulpine hunters" space marines however.. bloodbowl has

Actual fox players

They score the points

[bright dove]

With some work, I'd l9ve to give that fox a chicken in its mouth

[desert jay]

@floral herald https://fxtwitter.com/david_leavitt/status/1853471134982836719

[past sphinx]

"No take only throw"lookin ass creature

[paper bluff]

Guess what!

[paper bluff]

They have a rule called "my ball" which you're going to laugh at

[past sphinx]

Fucking perfection

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1303409436676849705/b8k6d7y561zd1.png?ex=672ba621&is=672a54a1&hm=9d6dedd313a9b26e966255a9ab1901c36e7eff704adaa6024522f826b68bd8e1&

[mild glen]

I think it's more fun if the Blood Ravens are Raven Guard successors, personally, they have that whole penchant for self-sacrifice thing going for them (the sable brand), and grand larceny affiliations.

Ksons have a pretty strong link, sure, and there's a few lines in canon that point towards it, but with the gene-seed flaw of the Flesh Change and the casting of the Rubric, it seems sketch.

[tired cairn]

Are ksons like tsons but really like ketamine?

[mild glen]

K meaning "thousand"

[jaunty dawn]

i guess you could say theyre the grandsons

[plucky token]

ksons are also vtubers

[floral herald]

This has been tempting me too much to compare them in a written article haha

[paper bluff]

I'm for the chimera seed explanation

[upper canopy]

Project 41000

[paper bluff]

Bloodbowl is a game that still imbraces that old GW fluffiness

[paper bluff]

https://youtu.be/hDh0B3DZKiE?si=oc5SGy7q4IDqxXHX

It would be nice for the wargames to get more fluffiness to it and flavour

[upper canopy]

main thing I dislike about this video is the kinda
Reddit Athiest Moment about religion

[hard whale]

40k literally has the Ecclesiarchy, that answer should have been both

[jaunty dawn]

underworldin

[desert jay]

He kinda goes "40k is ruled by their religious doctrine, but in an oligarchic and not autocratic fashion"

[jaunty dawn]

40k has the church in a broadly adversarial relationship to the other branches of government

while autocratic church would be the age of apostasy

the checks are balances are everyone hates each other and has big guns

[tired cairn]

Though what they are checking and balancing against is a specific authoritarian group taking over lol

[jaunty dawn]

ye

[tired cairn]

I was annoyed at the video because it seemed like particularly silly gotchas instead of the normal form of that joke. Though maybe that is appropriate for a Warhammer nerd lmao

[jaunty dawn]

having said all that

imperium definitely got a lot more autocratic with gulliman around

hmm

stuff gets kinda nebulous tbh

[meager quail]

It's complicated because Guileman Roboots is essentially trying to centralize and standardize because the alternative seems to have been going pretty terrible

But by the nature of the Imperium that is a necessarily autocratic process

[jaunty dawn]

autocracy in the imperium doesnt really have a better track record tbh

[meager quail]

Is it like ... more autocratic than having fifty-bajillion tiny dictatorships which pay taxes to the hands-off big one? I don't know, how do you even gauge that?

[jaunty dawn]

uh

yeah

gets all nebulous

i think basically the upwards power flow from the planetary governors is too little for the imperium to actually be a feudalist society

more has feudalist aesthetics

[meager quail]

I don't think there are good answers to "how to fix the Imperium"

[paper bluff]

But not too independent cause it you don't pay your taxes. 1000 bronze space marines will come kick your face in

[meager quail]

I'm willing to sympathize with Robobottootle in his efforts to make things marginally better for the moment as a character arc

[paper bluff]

As it stands, there are worse people to be in charge. We can all admit that Gman likes it when things function and work. The morality of him doing something vs the that is needless and wasteful bit foggy

He is the perfect imperialist

[past sphinx]

i could do it

step 1, we kill the space marines as they are mutants and dont believe the emperor is god, therefore a test

step 2, turn off the golden throne and turn it on again, reviving the emperor

step 3, surrender to the true gods

hydra dominatus

[pulsar cairn]

Have u tried turning it off and on again?

[thin ibex]

need to come up with an explorator fleet name

feels like im supposed to just

take greek letters, then add a bit of a catholic twist on em

[pulsar cairn]

that's nice of them

[paper bluff]

H4 Tungsten-k τ

Is it a terrible name? Yes.

[obsidian flume]

I have a question

What actually are gene seeds

Like what do they look like

[bright dove]

I imagine meat seeds.

[junior robin]

I think thats suposed to be a gene seed in the hand upper right

[runic swallow]

Yeah that what it is, I think I actually remember seeing the label when they showed off the model in White Dwarf

Also, it’s a neat model tbh

[finite compass]

GENESEEDS ARE JUST BABY SPORE MINES

<Delivered in the exact same tone as 'Soylent Green is People'>

[runic swallow]

It’s kinda hilarious how massive the heavy bolt pistol is

Like, seeing the holster

I love it, it is so stupidly huge I loop back around to liking it, thing is basically a semi-auto bolt carbine for normal people

[pulsar cairn]

Bolt guns dont feel very practical

Unless ur a space marine

Probably great on tanks tho

Is the average Ork shootah equivalent to bolters in caliber?

[runic swallow]

Nah, probably not more than a normal grenade

And an Ork shoota is whatever an ork throws together, could be a bunch of tiny stuff or one huge thing, but they’d definitely gravitate towards big

[jaunty dawn]

its actually an even heavier bolt pistol, the absolver

which is basically a pistol heavy bolter

[tall depot]

Is cursed city any good? I'm thinking about asking for it or the bloodbowl starter set for christmas

[finite compass]

Orks probably dont' standardize, but the canon explanation is "Either massive, large-caliber bullets, explosive shells, or a mixture of both."

[mild glen]

They aren't. They're a logistical nightmare mostly good for terrifying anybody that sees their buddy shot with one.

When people start hyping up the boltgun, I usually call it the Night Lords of Imperium weaponry.

[jaunty dawn]

shootas are broadly bolter equivalent

[tired cairn]

Fortunately for bolt guns, they exist in a universe where practicality is not a terribly important consideration

[paper bluff]

Volkite was almost the standard space marine weapon in lore iirc but turned out too expensive to make at legion scale to changed to bolter. "But with no legion size forces, wouldn't it be easy to make the swap now?" Yes logically, no in that they don't make them much at this moint

[solemn gull]

Most things in the imperium are stupidly impractical and ineffective but because it’s really old it works (also machine spirits idk)

[meager quail]

The Imperium runs on style

So does everyone else, really

Hm. Do the rules of the 40k universe dictate that being stylish is the greatest power of all?

[tired cairn]

Power scales with either incredible style or being the goofiest looking thing in existence

[meager quail]

Same thing, really

[paper bluff]

Hight and amount of fancy dress you have is basically how important you are in 40k

[tired cairn]

And at some point you can safely take the helmet off

[uneven ember]

They're also a weapon for people to whom money is literally no object.
The Poor Bloody Infantry use lasguns. Bolters are for people who would consider "one or more people whose profession is specifically making ammunition for my weapon, personally" a completely reasonable arrangement

[past sphinx]

"insert this is a weapon of terror, this is a weapon of war" scene from stargate

they are however very very good at killing orks

[bright dove]

Most unarmored things tvh

[past sphinx]

light vehicles to

that whole mass reactive thing

[tired cairn]

Less good at killing orks now that they are t5 lol (which I think is recentish)

[spice flicker]

Hmmm... go ahead and spend 3 RP and get myself 2 brigands and 2 karnivores for the crusade so I can have the option of either fielding 4 war dogs and an abominant or go with 6 war dogs at 1000 points. Go for it or nah?

[thin ibex]

Iirc the logical weapon for a space marine would be something like a gauntlet mounted or carried Las weapon that links into their power pack. With how precise they are, they can target weak spots extremely efficiently.

And keeping a higher powered weapon on hand for more considerable threats

But space marines aren't logical, really

[zinc field]

Unironically multilasers are the ideal weapon if you're already wearing a nuclear reactor as a backpack. It's a machine gun with no ammo to lug around

I am CSGoto-pilled

[thin ibex]

I generally figure if you have enough precision, you only need with power to penetrating the weakest available part that precision can hit for you

Heads, eye plates, armpits etc

[sweet solar]

sidearm volleygun, main weapon multilaser, marksman las fusil, geavy weapon lascannon

beam marines

[uneven ember]

I think there was fluff way back that Marines carried a sidearm laspistol for when everything else ran out

[past sphinx]

their holsters definitely couldnt carry the old bolt pistols thats for sure

[runic swallow]

Using all the power of the armor to shove it into a too-small holster

[thin ibex]

i feel like a lot of what a space marine is ultimately, is using their armor to close distance and then using their armor as a weapon in and of itself, partnered with tools and weaponry to support those goals

achieving combat superiority through speed, violence, and resilience

[runic swallow]

I mean, that’s not far from the modern ideal of speed, decisiveness, and violence of action

But yeah one of 40ks conceits is that armor has got good enough again that closing the distance to do sick nasty melee stuff is a very viable tactic

[thin ibex]

i just tend to think that the benefits of superior reflexes, precision, speed, and power are largely wasted when utilizing the armor at longer ranges and in protracted battles

you want to leverage all of those advantages when deploying them

doesnt necessarily mean melee, but youre a walking battering ram, able to enter most places at will, engage in close range combat with little to no concern for return fire, and you dont get hurt or tired in a lasting way

[meager quail]

Space Marines are also relatively few

And work best in teams

And are hard to replace

So a combined arms doctrine using extremely expensive weapons for them specifically sorta makes sense

“It costs $100,000 to fire this gun … for 12 seconds” type of stuff

[thin ibex]

While yes sorta, if you look at top tier operators now, a lot of them still use pretty standard weapons customized to their liking, their expensive stuff comes in the form of their support structures and assets

[finite compass]

Also given it takes over a decade of training and implants to produce a battle ready Scout, and how many more decades on top of that to produce a full Space Marine.

[runic swallow]

Space marines would be, counter to how they are on the tabletop and often in lore, best deployed as special forces troops tbh

[finite compass]

Not like your stereotypical Guard conscript. "Here's your lasgun, here's your five minute orientation video, and there's the Orks. Good luck."

[runic swallow]

They’re the guys you have doing lightning raids or breakthrough attacks at very specific points, not the guys fighting at higher than a squad or maybe platoon level

[finite compass]

That was one thing I liked about the old Forgeworld Vraks books

They really hammered that home

[runic swallow]

Wow, five whole minutes? Not just “point this end towards the bad man”

[finite compass]

The Dark Angels were devastating while they had the initiative, but as soon as they got dragged into a static fight, they started taking losses

[finite compass]

At least three and a half minutes are the requisite prayers to the Emperor.

[runic swallow]

Well, sorta, some of that stuff is pretty kitted out, and they have all sorts of extra gear on top. But the real costs are the training and support stuff, yeah

Anyways, I kinda love the idea of Iron Warriors mostly operating as force multipliers with units of traitor guard and only grouping up when doing very focused breakthrough attacks

Like, have a single Iron Warrior overseeing an artillery battery, maybe a squad mixed into a company or battalion of normal dudes, and only bring out the platoon or company sized elements of IW when you’re doing the real breakthrough punch

[finite compass]

That strikes me as more an Alpha Legion thing

Though CSM are decentralized enough that most warbands can probably do that

[meager quail]

I do feel like marines fighting as a complete army is generally a waste of marines

[finite compass]

Just the whole "few Marines supporting a traitor/cult element" seems standard AL doctrine

[meager quail]

Marines could also potentially bring something far, far more valuable to the table than their skill as combatants: decades or centuries of experience

[runic swallow]

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking for what I was describing, just a logic of “we are a valuable force multiplier, why bunch up when we can have an impact across the whole battle line”

Like, it’d be a benefit to have the guy who has memorized more artillery tables than one human could ever learn being the guy calling out firing orders and making targeting decisions

And a few marines could really be a wedge to crack open a breakthrough

And you keep better control over the expendables regular infantry

I just kinda feel like IW with their heavy use of more controlled battle plans would want to have their guys in position to report up the chain, take command themselves, and act as force multipliers all at once

Just a pure efficiency mindset

And only when stuff is at the moment where it’d cause maximum impact do you actually do a full marine/major marine spearhead leading normal infantry attack

[meager quail]

The flip side is I guess that regardless of strategic use, Marines have cultural reasons that they prefer to work with each other

And the Imperium making terrible choices in warfare for stupid cultural reasons is like

Its whole thing

[jaunty dawn]

the game is also just like

not really meant to be accurate

in that way

like how if you want artillery support they have to be on the front line

etc

[meager quail]

Sure but I'm not referring to the mechanics of the tabletop

As a lore thing we know the Imperium is extremely bad at a lot of stuff and only manages through spending way, way more resources than it probably needs to on any given problem

[jaunty dawn]

I think my actual argument here is that space marines just don't fight conventional battles that often, even when they show up in force

like even when they are fighting as an army, they're taking advantage of their superior co-ordination capability to do a bunch of stuff at once

(or like, arguably, the largest force a space marine chapter is able to field is a brigade, which is a few orders of magnitude smaller than an army)

[floral herald]

Same reason infantry support tanks were abandoned after WW1 in favor of massing them in their own units :p

Putting all that force in its own unit means it can do things infantry simply cannot

[jaunty dawn]

ww2, i think

ww1 didnt really have tank thoughts beyond "uhhh armour and guns"

"power-to-weight? whats that?"

[floral herald]

Yeah some of this stuff lasted until part of WW2 but that’s a less snappy phrase haha

“Pre 1941-42 WW2”?

[jaunty dawn]

part of it was also that by the end of ww2 the technology to make mbt/universal tanks existed and ifvs were starting to be a thing too but yeah. overall combined arms good but a lot of the time you do want to be concentrating firepower

[paper bluff]

The space marine is a mounted medieval knight for tactical purposes

Spear tip and shock and awe are the space marine MO

[jaunty dawn]

more my point was that it wasn't really till after ww1 that tanks got fast enough that the idea of making a slower tank for infantry support really meant anything

[paper bluff]

Lighting assault or here is a wall of overwhelming force

[jaunty dawn]

and that during ww1 tank doctrines weren't really a thing it was just what you could get to the front cause no one had any idea what they were actually doing

[mental birch]

Me right now

https://pastebin.com/z7Ke8HQ3

how the hell did this pile of garbage win me games

hahaha

[paper bluff]

I hope the new noise marine has a cool blastmaster

[jaunty dawn]

I'm sure they will

csm range is pretty legit

these are cool!

this makes me want secutarii in LI so bad omg

[paper bluff]

You should

Imagine having a 30k army and then repping the larger army in LI

[floral herald]

Oh the rules for the new plague marines KT are out

They look neat - very meat and potatoes though

[jaunty dawn]

you'd think on such a slow news week that would merit an article

i guess there's still time

https://tenor.com/view/its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-mac-all-things-are-possible-through-god-so-jot-that-down-gif-15435586

poison gives them a decent amount of deterministic damage

or rather, the ways of inflicting it are pretty deterministic

flail guy also gets a flail attack that's reliable

[floral herald]

Yeah the team has a lot of mortals

[jaunty dawn]

ooh and contagion is automatic when the icon bearer is alive

their warriors are pretty solid which is a nice way of making them worth taking

5+ crit saves, boltguns get poison synergy, always have plague knives

poison vents are a cool mechanic rather than having a plague knife equipment

they seem pretty fun tbh! and the models are great

[pastel rampart]

Peak CSM.

[jaunty dawn]

it is something of a shame that options from the old plague marine kt aren't around, like the full armoury and the option for plaguebearers, but it is what it is

[paper bluff]

I wonder if I should get a kill team just to have one

[floral herald]

Yeah I love these models for them

Even though I don’t always love the Plague Marine aesthetic

[ebon forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRM541XQffE

Pretty book

[meager quail]

Could it be something someone assembled for themselves or a loved one?

[tardy vault]

Fulgurite is not listed in lexicanum as a Nick Kyme story.

It might be a chapter in Vulkan Lives tho

[paper bluff]

I think i know why I don't interest in kill team. All of my armies don't have a kill team

I've got world eaters, necrons, knights and custodes

[tardy vault]

Interesting that Necrons at least don't have one.

(unfamiliar with Kill Team beyond the basic concept)

World Eaters as well

Knights and Custodes makes sense tho lol

[soft willow]

Necrons and Custodes used to have rules, the new edition phased them out I take it?

[thin ibex]

Yeah necrons had the cryptek team I thought

Stodes was a index team

[hard whale]

It looks like Legionaries and Heiroteks got brought through to 3rd edition

[floral herald]

Necrons still have a team

[paper bluff]

It must not have it's own box

[jaunty dawn]

not all the kill teams are out in 24 packaging yet

eg farstalker kinband

world eaters also do pretty well out of legionaries, though understand it's not the same ofc

but you have a heavy chainaxe dude as well as a few other melee operatives

[floral herald]

I think it works pretty well but not having the Balefire Acolyte kinda sucks

Lots of scary melee guys and Khorne is good

[jaunty dawn]

I guess you could model them as an 'undivided priest'

can legionaries take a plasma pistol/chainsword gunner?

[floral herald]

They can’t

I don’t think a plasma gunner is a big issue thematically though

[pulsar cairn]

do tau have plasma machine guns?

[junior robin]

closest is probably the burst cannon but its too big for normal infantry to use

[frail jacinth]

I'm still actively praying for a sisters of silence kill team

would make a lot more sense than actual custodes as much as that'd be cool

and sisters need some more variety

[tired cairn]

Unfortunately, I suspect GW will generally go for specific model kill teams over bespoke from existing model ones? The necron one is also a bit hard to proxy I think?

Though I guess stingwings are recent and also going to be base vespids?

[tired cairn]

One custodes and the rest sisters could be neat?

[frail jacinth]

yeah i had that thought

[tired cairn]

Ok, do sisters and Custodes work together a lot in the lore? Or is that a tabletop artifact?

[frail jacinth]

cus the 4 man custodes index was cool but i feel like it was stretching the flavour a little bit if they were going up against like, 10 kasrkin or whatever

which i suppose is a wider custodes as a playable army issue

[paper bluff]

They could do the double pistols unit from 30k to add to SoS. Then sword, bolter, flamer options

[frail jacinth]

yeah thats a big thing in the lore

[frail jacinth]

yeah exactly

cus i think i heard their heresy ruleshave heavy weapons and snipers and stuff? just no tabletop support yet i think

[paper bluff]

It happened alot in 30k, in modern lore the big duo is alaya and valerian

[frail jacinth]

there is a whole detachment for it in the current codex

[paper bluff]

BUT in 30k sisters are their own army which is funny

[frail jacinth]

true true

[tired cairn]

I do think it was pretty silly that GW had space Marines as an elite fighting force. And then added GK as a more elite fighting force. And then added custodes as an even more elite fighting force

[frail jacinth]

last edition they were lumped in with custodes i believe

[paper bluff]

Which is funny because that detachment doesn't help the flamer at all

[frail jacinth]

lmao yeah

[frail jacinth]

yeah don't get me started on the custodes detachments in general lmao

[tired cairn]

And now space Marines are the baseline lmao

(well, on tabletop)

[meager quail]

I do kinda like the idea of Custodes as more individually dangerous but also too individuated to be ideal soldiers

[paper bluff]

My friend, I play custodes. I know

[tired cairn]

Yeah, I think they would make more sense as an Imperial Agents thing

[frail jacinth]

yeah this is the big scale issue when it comes to 40k where space marines should be the elite strike teams, whereas now thats sort of custodes/grey knights

[meager quail]

Very, very tall Imperial Agents

[paper bluff]

Lore wise, a custode showing up makes sense as an imperial agent makes sense

[tired cairn]

Can't really roll it back though

[meager quail]

You could even play it as like an equipment standardization thing

[tired cairn]

(well, they can but it would be shitty)

[frail jacinth]

only thing there might be them clashing with inquisitors, given that both can play the 'i work for the emperor i'm in charge' card in-universe

[meager quail]

Where like ... custodes have notably different sizes and shapes and aptitudes

Just much less interchangeable

[paper bluff]

The custodes should use the "I can kill you with this knife and it is legal" method with a terrible inquisitor

[meager quail]

Custodes Bond

[frail jacinth]

real

[paper bluff]

The custodes are each like a Greek hero of old. And inmean that literally, they are each like a Greek hero

[frail jacinth]

are they stated as varying in size a lot? cus this would explain that slightly worryingly common thing of custodes constantly acting as secret agents which i always find quite funny

[meager quail]

I'm saying sorta speculatively, they could've really played into the individuation dynamic

Just made them sort of hard to standardize around

Every Space Wolf is pretty similar to every other Space Wolf, despite their particularities

So you could have said that every custodes is kind of a freak by contrast :D

[tired cairn]

Though ironically on tabletop Custodes are more standardized

[paper bluff]

Not really, they're all perfect specimens. It's not like tyberos and Huron. They very in that each one is a work of art (a statue in a gallery) never to be repeated

[frail jacinth]

that was my impression

[tired cairn]

Though the normal unit sculpts are before they started to do more bespoke per-model poses for this right?

[paper bluff]

So they are all "different" down to the very one of them but what they all are is perfect. (Perfectly different)

[meager quail]

I also imagine a custodes spy isn't a spy in the sense of you not knowing they're a spy

[paper bluff]

The eye of the emperor?

*eyes

[tired cairn]

"Perfect has multiple states" is a surprisingly poignant thing for 40k to say lmao

[tired cairn]

I think they are specifically spymasters right?

[meager quail]

They're a spy in the sense that they have a ton of diplomatic privileges and connections that you haven't even considered and are probably accompanied by many spies and non-spies who are harder to spot

[paper bluff]

Each primarch was designed to be perfect in their own way. Nurture did a hand jive in that

[meager quail]

A lot of spywork is bureaucracy and analysis and diplomacy and headgames, not sticking to the shadows

And if people generally see custodes as highly legitimate it means they'll say things to them and do things for them that they wouldn't do for others

[paper bluff]

There's more eldar than custodes so you have to understand how rare they actually are in lore

They are exceptional

[meager quail]

I also just like the idea of 10-foot-tall James Bond

[thin ibex]

Iirc they tend to build spy networks, but if anyone is good at being a 9 foot tall stealth expert it'd be a custodes

[paper bluff]

https://youtu.be/vJG698U2Mvo?si=8lKBYW0FV36WZKsN

Now imagine if the gorilla could more at the maximum physical could allow and had reaction speed to take advantage tracking your eye moment and calculating enough to know how to move

The raven guard shadow walking works that way I think

Corvus had the eldritch "your mind will blank on what is in front of you" ability tho

[meager quail]

But also conversely if the gorilla drew attention to itself I think you would rapidly lose track of the number of times the ball was passed

Being able to show up and be the Emperor's Chosen Bodyguard and basically just fuck around however is a potent thing

And a potent distraction

[frail jacinth]

i'd never really thought of it like this

[paper bluff]

That is also true and I think what happened in tithes?

[frail jacinth]

that combined with probably esoteric stealth tech or something

[past sphinx]

there are just really really big dudes out there

[pulsar cairn]

Close enough

[paper bluff]

Again, I cannot stress how much the hierarchy is base on who it biggest and has the fanciest outfit

[pulsar cairn]

u think imperialsremove wisdom teeth?

[meager quail]

No they just replace their entire jaws with cyborg parts

[pulsar cairn]

i feel like thats better

[meager quail]

But only if you’re rich

If you’re a commoner you probably just die

[pulsar cairn]

aw dangit

[meager quail]

(Not getting wisdom teeth removed is quite bad for your health) EDIT: impacted teeth specifically

[pulsar cairn]

well good thing i dont have to worry about that anymore

do people with special ranks get that kind of cyborg stuff tho?

like comissars and scions?

i know ciaphas cain has a robort arm

is that like cause he has money or cause he's a comissar?

[meager quail]

Augmetics are pretty common but the Imperium is generally willing to let people die in droves

If it doesn’t kill them itself

[floral herald]

That far in the future and with all that genetic engineering wisdom teeth may not be an issue

[meager quail]

Mutants all over tho

[pulsar cairn]

replace wisdom teeth with third arm that's useless

[meager quail]

“Wisdom teeth are a sure sign of heresy”

[pulsar cairn]

oh no

[thin ibex]

Your value to the Imperium is generally what defines the kind of augmetics you get I imagine

Or personal wealth

So a soldier might get a clunky, slow and poorly adjusted replacement limb, a rogue trader might get a artisan crafted, perfectly aligned and adjusted replacement limb that is only cosmetically distinguishable from their original arm

[pulsar cairn]

it being tied to your value to the imperium makes sense too

[paper bluff]

Fingers actually and he was with space marines during that and they gave it to him

He specifically talks about how that bit of his hand does shake when he's nervous and it helps his aim

[pulsar cairn]

you mean they took his fingers or they gave him the prosthetic?

[paper bluff]

His fingers got shot off with a gauss blast iirc

[pulsar cairn]

i remember him mentioning that bit!

[paper bluff]

The fox is lorning (lore learning)

[pulsar cairn]

i like his books