Warhammer and Such

[rocky shale]

Abominant only has a 3+ save and 5++ inuln so panoply only benefits you on AP -1/2 weapons

[spice flicker]

They are and you do have to spend RP for them but they are 1 RP each.

[rocky shale]

Cover changes this a little but still

[jaunty dawn]

bikes are fairly well distributed through the classic factions and some of the new ones, but are marines the only ones to get a sidecar?

[spice flicker]

Can't start with a tyrant unfortunately since the abominant is the only one that I can afford at our point level since it's below 375 points. (No model can be worth more than half your total field able army is a house rule and we start at 750 points.)

[tired cairn]

I feel like if they don't have one, the orks definitely should have a model with a sidecar

[jaunty dawn]

I think shroud runners are the only other one with 2 ppl on a bike but thats pillion

[rocky shale]

Then prob skip panoply unless you're worried about something funky like plasma spam?

[jaunty dawn]

even csm doesnt have access to the attack bike

[tired cairn]

harlequins also get a pillion style thing

Shroud runners look really sweet as an aside

I didn't even know they were a model until poorhammer did their every factions mounted unit thing

[spice flicker]

Alright so aura of terror on one of the two stalkers I'm taking or the abominant for sticky objectives?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah shroud runners are fun

[rocky shale]

Probably a stalker since it's cheaper and easier to hide while it does objectives

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah, skyweavers

[rocky shale]

They look great but they're a pain to paint

Cloaks on bikes basically require subassembly painting the riders but their legs often break off when you try to pu them back on the bike

[tired cairn]

Oh no D=

[rocky shale]

It's basically painting 2 rangers and a whole bike model

So much painting for like 26 points per model

[jaunty dawn]

this conversion kit is pretty nice

oh yeah pioneers have a pillion turret

[thin ibex]

i think chaos should get a bike refresh that comes with sidecars

let em carry on

[past sphinx]

Ec codex will bring me doomrider and behind him new bikes

I betcha

And mutilators

[solemn gull]

I think you have too much faith

Or maybe I’m too bitter but I think it will just be a new upgrade sprue and maybe some noise marines

[thin ibex]

almost guaranteed an updated lucius wouldnt we?

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s likely imo

[past sphinx]

They can't have a book with one of the few ec characters people know in easily ebay'd finecast

[soft willow]

Maybe an updated Fabulous Bill.

Given his recent throw down in Cawl's book.

[past sphinx]

He got a new model like 5 years back

We should get new men

[soft willow]

Maybe not him but yeah maybe something to go with him.

[floral herald]

I could easily see Numen

[uneven ember]

DOOMRIDER

[soft willow]

I'm buying a new Doomrider if it happens even if I don't bother with the rest of the army.

I hope he's great but still randomly drives off to go do cooler shit somewhere else.

[thin ibex]

i heard buzz about new wolf stuff teased? anyone know about that?

[uneven ember]

This seems like the kind of thing that's too whimsical and fun for current GW but I agree.
Just wreck shit over the board and then go "alright, this scene is dead, later losers"
Maybe give him a Fonz jacket over his power armor

[soft willow]

Yeah it won't be kept if he comes back at all.

IIRC the last time we saw Doomrider the White Scars had put his head on a pike while the rest of him drove off into the Warp.

[past sphinx]

Headless horsemen mfer

A headless horse less headsman

[soft willow]

Horseless, headless, but still ready to rock!

[meager quail]

Do Chaos Space Marines have tanks

?

[pastel rampart]

Yes, inasmuch as regular SM have tanks.

[meager quail]

Right

I was just wondering about the famous "metal boxes" meme

[pastel rampart]

Which is pretty much Predator and Vindicator and I guess Land Raiders.

[meager quail]

Like ... don't you also have metal boxes?

[desert jay]

They don’t even have Razorbacks…

[tepid stratus]

Yeah outside of the old tank kits uh... Do daemon engines count?

It's not like we're getting new vehicles every year like loyalists

[tepid stratus]

Or whirlwinds

[desert jay]

DG does have the plagueburst crawler though

[pastel rampart]

Admittedly that was discovered in M36 and CSM typically still rely on Heresy-era equipment.

[finite compass]

CSM should have more esoteric Dark Mechanicum stuff

In this essay I will-

Or more stuff like the Defiler

Something very distinct from both old Imperial and generic Space Marine equipment

[thin ibex]

im a bit funny in that i kinda want, with the primaris stuff in vogue, chaos should feature more old shit

[tired cairn]

His enemies don't hide in those ones though

[pastel rampart]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2005010/Warhammer_40000_Boltgun/ 35% off.

Steam

Warhammer 40,000: Boltgun

Play as Malum Caedo, a fearless Space Marine, on his perilous mission to locate a shard from a mysterious power source on Graia, a Forge World on the brink of being overrun by Cultists, Traitors and Chaos Daemons. Scour the place, acquire devastating weapons and holy equipment, and PURGE THE HERETICS in this retro shooter!Become the ultimate war...

Price

$14.29

Recommendations

12074

Metacritic

75

▶ Play video

[finite compass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSrdmYubl0A

[floral herald]

Yeah but in a cool way

We don’t hide in them we chill tf out in them

[balmy wave]

And do not forget Sly Marbo

[thin ibex]

it is neat that chaos shit back in the day just randomly comes with a rocket launching pod

that space marines from the same era just didnt'

"How do we know who the bad guys are?"

They mount rocket launcher on all their rhino chassis vehicles

[tired cairn]

Now isn't the Imperium that puts Hunter-Killer missiles on everything?

[finite compass]

Of course the Havoc Launcher could be fired any number of times.

HK Missiles can only be fired once

[tepid stratus]

We also used to be able to slap doom sirens on the same weapon mount but we lost those. Some of the kits still have them

[thin ibex]

chaos gods just zoinking doom sirens right off the rhino

[past sphinx]

i am still salty about this from 2006

i just want lascannons and i dont want to have to commit to a predator!

[lofty warren]

Havocs

[past sphinx]

to slow

i didnt embrace the dark gods to walk

[rocky shale]

Its okay, Agents dont get lascannons without committing to a transport aircraft

[lofty warren]

I wish sorcerers could open warp portals on the table...

[past sphinx]

WE COULD

WE COULD SUMMON THE SERVANTS OF THE TRUE GODS

[rocky shale]

break out one of these bad boys in the LGS

[thin ibex]

Wasn't summoning hella jank

And weird with points limits

[bright dove]

Yes

[past sphinx]

oh yeah

absolutely fucked

[bright dove]

And also Warp Instability was a thing for daemons

So you could just have the unit vanish

[solemn gull]

But hey that’s chaos

[jaunty dawn]

the 9e implementation was pretty chill

like you took daemon allies and they had a rule to deep strike closer within a keyword, then that keyword was distributed throughout chaos

[jaunty dawn]

started doing a test paint for vespid and it's pretty fun. new vespids are really cool

my only real issue with them is I wish there was more of the tau stuff present, like the classic ones having chest plates. Shadestrain is definitely my favourite ;P

I'd love to do a conversion to that effect but seems a little complicated with all the organic parts :/

there's also this weird thing on the old vespids and I have no idea what it's about

its like a. egg or something

[bold halo]

bug gubbins

[jaunty dawn]

maybe it was meant to be a weird alien grenade

in any case gone now for the extra set of arms. which might also be what led to the removal of the armour tbh

not a lot of room left to run pipes

[junior summit]

what're some good 40k books? I've read all of gaunt's ghosts and ciaphas cain as well as Faith and Steel

The Heresy books seem interesting but jesus christ that's a lot of books

[bold halo]

the Ravenor books are fun

[bright dove]

The Infinite and the Divin.

*Divine

Also Storm of Iron.

[uneven ember]

I liked the Eisenhorn trilogy

[junior summit]

I've read infdiv and eisenhorn

[paper bluff]

The ciaphus cain books can also be fun

GW's own flashman

[thin ibex]

15 hours is good

[pastel rampart]

Inquisition War, if you can find it.

[floral herald]

Shira Calpurnia is neat

[untold swallow]

There's an omnibus about an admech expeditionary fleet

I forget the title

Forges of Mars!

[thin ibex]

Titan: God Machine I think was good, unless thats the comic

am I thinking of Titanicus?

[floral herald]

It is a comic but it is good

[uneven ember]

Hellsreach was fun for a really straightforward milSF take on the setting

[pastel rampart]

Oh right Night Lords trilogy.

[runic swallow]

The mechanicus trilogy is neat, Ravenor is good, Night Lords trilogy is good, Dead Men Walking is good, and I liked tha Fabulous Bill books

Especially the stuff with the Genehounds/New Men, GW I beg you make rules for them

Oh, the Charcharadons novel is interesting

[junior summit]

I did read forge of mars

[past sphinx]

the warhammer crime novels are best in show

[jaunty dawn]

just occurred to me thinking about vespids as a nid proxy and like, the three special weapons actually correspond to the new gaunt special weapons really well???

[floral herald]

Oh huh

[jaunty dawn]

spike rifle // rail rifle, strangleweb // flamer, barblauncher // grenade launcher

[floral herald]

They might make great commando gargoyles yeah

[jaunty dawn]

spike rifle gargoyle feels like it would look pretty cool

[tired cairn]

A bunch of gargoyles and one of the neurotyrant neuroloids (that might be a bit too small though, hmm)

[jaunty dawn]

i think the neuroloid is about perfect tbh

my concern with gargoyles or at least using the current gargoyles is they're kinda samey and also take up a lot of space

which looks great in a big swarm in 40k but isnt ideal for kill team sized thing

[tired cairn]

Only downside of a neuroloid is it harder to give it that disappointed face the drone has

[jaunty dawn]

they also already fall over a lot on 32 mm flight stand bases so rebasing to 28mm would suck

[tired cairn]

This guy has had enough of the Vespids antics:

[tired cairn]

Yeah. Maybe for a new gargoyle kit

[arctic lynx]

Can I recommend Peter Fehervari's work? Fire Caste is a great Guard novel.

His novels can be a bit dense in terms of prose but I think they're some of the best BL work alongside Abnetts, and they have the best depiction of both the Tau, and Chaos as a subtle corruption.

[solemn gull]

I find the action novels really boring. It’s like the same 3 or 4 mission objectives but they madlib in different protagonists and conditions

Being said Knights of Macragge is pretty cool because of Cato’s moustache

[south axle]

Looking at the list of Underworld warbands getting rules in the new edition and noticing that the only skaven warband that is getting rules is the one who has been oop for the longest. And the one who they still sell won't be getting rules...

[thin ibex]

new recruit finally has the blood angels stuff

so i can play around

[jaunty dawn]

I think the other ones are getting pdf rules? but yeah it's weird

like thorns of the briar queen not being a starting band when it's super iconic and they re-released it not that long ago for that reason

I wonder if it's maybe,,, because having actually mechanically interesting teams in the new edition is impossible looool

oh all the recent/current warbands are getting pdf rules but will be in competitive rotation

which does include the recent re-release

wait yeah what

plaguepack is literally the second most recent chaos warband

[pulsar cairn]

I just thought of a bunch of space marine clowns

[meager quail]

The Clown Marines were formed after witnessing the Harlequins on the battlefield

[spice flicker]

What's a good name for a chaos knight army for a crusade? The Lore for my army is that the knight abominant serving as the warlord is piloted by a person whose mind and memory has become the playthings of the chaos gods to the point he is borderline flesh Eater Court level delusional. He is unaware of the chaos corruption around him and any time he starts to suspect something is off, the gods twist his perspective to make him Oblivious to the destruction and chaos caused by him and his subordinates. The abominant knows he must keep marching forward and fight whatever lies ahead as they're stopping him from reaching his goal...that he doesn't even know what it is since the gods change what his aims are each time he starts to think he's getting close. So this assortment of knights is led by a chaos knight whose Oblivious to the fact he serves the ruinious powers or that they even exist since he even sees traitor guardsmen and chaos space marines as just regular instead of chaos corrupted.

What do you think?

[upper bluff]

Fear Made Manifest

[solemn gull]

The Grand March

[spice flicker]

I know one person I asked suggested the puppet's march but wasn't sure even though it seems like a good starting point.

[tepid stratus]

The Court of the Blind King. Much like the monarch/lord of the house the name is a lie and a truth. The Emperor's justice is blind and unforgiving and his house is the hammer of that justice! But in reality he is a deluded lord blind to the world around him. A name undoubtedly suggested by a snickering tzeentchian bondsmen or lesser knight of the house.

[spice flicker]

I like that

[tepid stratus]

I've been cooking with knight ideas recently but don't want to commit the time or money to the project when I've still got a tzeentch army to finish

And quickly dwindling shelf space lol

[floral herald]

As an interesting addendum to that name

The Blind King was a rogue tech priest in the Collegia Titanica supposedly killed in M37

[spice flicker]

Never heard of that before

[floral herald]

Relatively obscure bit of lore

I think from a random blurb in the 5e core rules

[spice flicker]

Army lore:
A war host of knights who march through the warp to various battlefields at the whims of their master and the dark gods who whisper in his ears. The Phyraxos Sector has caught the attention of the Ruinous Powers and so the Blind King and his retinue march forward once more into ruin and glory.

.
Knight abominant "The Blind King" lore:
A knight abominant whose origins and even the identity of the pilot has been lost to the ages. The Blind King is the moniker given to the knight as he wades through battlefields alongside his retinue following the whispered demands of the chaos gods. The pilot is unaware of how corrupted him and his allies have become as his perception of reality is continously twisted by the gods to be Oblivious to the corruption and devastation that surrounds him. He wanders from battlefield to battlefield knowing only that he must continue to push forward and crush all that is in his way though only the gods know what the goal is since they change it constantly. He hears not the chaotic cries and screams of his allies as he only sees them as the silent and stoic retinue that follow him everywhere and fight when he does.

[tepid stratus]

Should I bother writing lore for the 10 wardog bondsmen of the chaos knight house I've been cooking up? My idea was for each of the 5 knights to have 2 bondsmen each tailored to their knight patterns respective synergies but this feels like a lot of effort for a project that I may never get around too

[spice flicker]

Do it

[floral herald]

This stuff seems rad yeah

[tepid stratus]

Damnit, time to draft up why some chuckle fuck wardogs are loyal to their particular flavor of chaos worshipping lord

[thin ibex]

random thought with discussion of crusading

what better time to bring a deathstrike

than in crusade

[spice flicker]

Indeed

Had a friend considering doing that with an infantry+artillery focused army before realizing the model for the deathstrike didn't load for everyone in tabletop simulator.

[ebon forge]

I would 100% watch a Skitarii cleaning his equipment

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwSXuHsS1P8

ratmen votann conversion

[desert jay]

Yeah but would you watch a skitarius do their eyeliner and mascara?

[ebon forge]

100%

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/MeU_317/status/1848607329081823610

[jaunty dawn]

thousand sons this blood ravens that. gabriel angelos is from the planet cyrene in the system aurelia???

(aurelian being the surname of lorgar and cyrene the blessed lady of the word bearers)

(doylist wise first heretic came out 6 years after dawn of war but yknow)

[thin ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

its all connected

all teh names, they're on purpose

[granite basin]

=][= wants a word with you-

[soft willow]

https://tenor.com/view/spanishinquisition-spanish-inquisition-diabolical-laughter-gif-13901571717868153323

[ebon forge]

Just like Angry Ron ?

[pulsar cairn]

Angry Ron

Bobby G

Peter Turbo

what else we have?

[mild glen]

Hey gang, weird question -- I wanna kitbash a meteor hammer (onto a Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon). Thoughts on how to pull that off?

[past sphinx]

hmmmm

[soft willow]

Could be an old school style missile launcher too yeah?

[past sphinx]

negative those had a curve in em

and chaos has those already

[uneven ember]

"Night Haunter," "Raven Raven," and "Iron Hands" don't count because they're canon i guess

[jaunty dawn]

woah forwarding is convenient

[past sphinx]

hey them are some weird birds

[jaunty dawn]

testpid!

really happy with it

original colouring + bork'an winter camo to match my parent's army

(from back when white camo was bork'ans signature look and not vior'las)

it's funny how big they are but it kinda works, and makes them pretty fun to paint too

[uneven ember]

oh I dig that

I also do appreciate, thinking about it, that 40K has your classic space bug hive mind implaccable enemy with whom coexistence is impossible, but also space bugs that are just chill guys

[jaunty dawn]

one thing I find really funny about vespids is that they seemingly like

it's almost more weird and cool that tau didn't mind control them, they just reach a consensus ridiculously quickly

like when the tau found them they were in a state of MAD that actually worked because they just all agreed that war would be a waste

so it was like as soon as they knew what the tau were actually asking for they just decided almost instantly which way they wanted to go

[uneven ember]

see, that's cool

and frankly, IMO, more interesting than "the Tau need to be grimdark"

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

its just like

more interesting to have a bit of alien psychology than to just repeat the same old 1984 tropes

[uneven ember]

I just remember someone grousing about how an Etherial special character was an evil Catholic, because if there's one setting that doesn't need more factions to have evil Catholics it is Warhammer 40K
the "evil Catholic" requirements are handily met

[past sphinx]

tau as the UN peacekeeping forces

[jaunty dawn]

cause pope?

[past sphinx]

not technically evil but definetly evil

man a space F117 would be rad

[jaunty dawn]

lowkey the corvus blackstar!

[past sphinx]

hmm i suppose

ive always been torn on the blackstar

[uneven ember]

Yeah.
Again, evil Catholic is a classic 40K aesthetic, but like half the point of the Tau is that they're not doing the 40K stuff

[floral herald]

Hard agree

I think the Vespids being Really Weird is much cooler than mind control

[pulsar cairn]

i wonder what the space dwarfs are doing

what's the super capitalism thing they do where they take your planet?

i remember someone mentioning that

[uneven ember]

digging a hole
diggy diggy hole

[jaunty dawn]

they just crack open planets to mine them without much regard for anyone living there aiui

[pulsar cairn]

that's very bad

i mean i shouldnt be surprised by it

this is 40k

[granite basin]

votann need their grimdark material to fit in lol

[untold swallow]

So, Leagues usually offer to trade for what they think is fair value

They then offer higher than fair value, sometimes

and only if the other party refuses again

do they go planet cracking

[soft willow]

Look sometimes you don't want it enough to stop them so they take it anyway.

[untold swallow]

Now this is of course still fucked up

Your choices become 'sell your planet' or 'have it mined out underneath your feet'

[soft willow]

Luck has, need keeps, toil earns afterall.

[untold swallow]

Of the factions I think they're the second least fucked behind the t'au (arguably)

since the t'au have 'letting multiple species be part of their societies' over them

[soft willow]

At least until the Votann collapse entirely.

[untold swallow]

speaking of

are Kin infertile?

You'd think some have given birth

[floral herald]

It’s not stated

But they seem to primarily reproduce mechanically

I also think that the (craftworld) Eldar are actually the holders of the somewhat dubious least-fucked-up mantle

[untold swallow]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh

They

Cleanse maiden worlds they find mon'keigh on if they think they can afford to

[soft willow]

They're a distant 3rd if anything.

[untold swallow]

They just don't because they're

Tiny

And would rather not have half the galaxy hunting them specifically for forever

Their self-contained craftworld societies seem good tho

Definitely one of if not the least raw deal one could get out of being born in 40k

[floral herald]

That’s from Inquisition War and opens up a really large can of worms if you use it for lore :p

Harlequin to be exact but it’s in the same trilogy

[pulsar cairn]

Eldar commit their fair amount of atrocities it's really hard picking the least fucked up when everyone can be so bad

[floral herald]

No it’s a significantly smaller amount than pretty much everyone

[untold swallow]

Single source is fair as a counterargument

Though

[floral herald]

The eldar just have tons of fan slander against them

[untold swallow]

Why is Inquisition War specifically discounted?

[floral herald]

It’s old as fuck and features a lot of stuff which isn’t really kept in modernity

[untold swallow]

fair

[floral herald]

There’s squats and such

I think it’s one of the books with GW’s “may not reflect the current setting” markers

[untold swallow]

Does it also include the infamous 'sacrificing space nuns for their virginal purity even though they don't have to be virginal'

[floral herald]

They’re fun books though

[untold swallow]

Fucking Grey Knights

[floral herald]

I don’t remember that at least but they’re a blur

There are some other sources for eldar scouring maiden worlds but they’re… mostly fairly justifiable

Like “oh there were Orks there”

Or “oh they evicted some tech priests who were looting the place”

Oh “oh yeah they kicked the Black Legion off one”

[untold swallow]

yeah fair

[floral herald]

But the eldar also like… establish protectorates of other species which they protect for fairly altruistic reasons

[untold swallow]

...

huh

[floral herald]

The 9E eldar codex has the craftworlds getting in a huge dust-up against a hive fleet for a region of space full of random aliens they’ve sworn to protect

Which is like… “whoops aren’t you supposed to be un AoS?” Tier for 40k :p

[untold swallow]

lmao

amazing

btw, to circle back to my earlier struck through statement

Exorcists are based and infinitely cooler

[soft willow]

The Inquisition War does have a ton of stuff they picked up on again later, and probably some of the best weird Chaos shit.

[floral herald]

Yeah I’m not saying don’t I’m just saying it comes with extra goodies

I like the blurb about the Inquisition going after a planet because the laws were too fair and the food too good

[uneven ember]

I've definitely seen "Eldar don't want mon'keigh cooties on their Maiden Worlds" past Inquisition War

[floral herald]

I am actually in the significant minority in that I actually think that is good lore for the GK and people just didn’t like it because of (valid) contemporary factors not really lore

Since at the time GK and SOB were the paired “inquisition factions” with all metal neglected ranges and dated rules (especially SoB, who were using a 3rd Ed codex in 5e)

[uneven ember]

Yeah, it was kind of driving home the point of "the Grey Knights aren't holy champions, they're daemon hunters"

[untold swallow]

It could have been literally any other Imperial faction and it would have been... still really fucking stupid but at least it wouldn't have been specifically the nuns with the powered bustiers

[floral herald]

And it felt pretty shit to have one faction get a huge range refresh and lore picking on the other more neglected faction

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s the part which it’s good for IMO

[untold swallow]

I will point out

[uneven ember]

Sisters were jobbing a lot at that point, yeah

[untold swallow]

I give no fucks about rules

5th edition probably came out when I was in kindergarten lmao

I just think it's gross and whoever wrote it needs a slap

[floral herald]

It pretty clearly gets across that the GK are ruthless and entirely practical in their pursuit of the daemon, and that goes as far as using the rules of sympathy to do khornate blood magic to beat Khorne

If they’d had the exact same lore but the GK killed a bunch of Ultramarines people would probably have added it to the epic based pile of feats (this is perhaps uncharitable)

Though I definitely get the discomfort with “oh yeah they killed a bunch of the only predominantly female faction” since this is basically a complicated backflip trick into fridging

And that’s good criticism

But I think the “GK will kill their allies and do blood magic with their corpses” is good lore

[untold swallow]

So I actually don't vibe with the whole 'will do khornate blood magic to beat khorne' cuz if any other faction of any other part of the Imperium tried that

Dead

So dead

So hilariously, monumentally dead at the hands of the Inquisition

Unless the entire oversight of the Grey Knights is composed of Xanthists cool with literally an entire chapter full of space marine psykers doing that

Like isn't Crowe on super thin ice for using his sword?

[floral herald]

Afaik no

[untold swallow]

Fair

I just

It stretches and snaps believability even in 40k for me

[floral herald]

The GK are also kind of a special case in a lot of ways

[rocky harness]

No more thin ice than the space wolf chapter master is for using a deamon ax.

[floral herald]

Since they’re another sigilite faction which predates the inquisition and has probably nearly as much influence as the custodes and such (they at least get to check out the cool vaults and such)

And the Imperium has an amazing aptitude for hypocrisy

[uneven ember]

✨ the Imperium is built on foundations of hypocricy! ✨

[floral herald]

I like the GK when what’s played up is their separation from the wider imperium and the political stuff and less the magically chaos immune paladins in space stuff

[rocky harness]

I do much prefer the GK novel where it's discovered that every bolt they fired had to be annoted with the blood of a relatively pure citizen. Then it switches scenes to the character just spraying tons of bullets. Really sets the tone.

[untold swallow]

The warning light of 'this entire chapter of psykers under control of the Inquisition just sacrificed a bunch of people in a blood ritual and didn't immediately all get summarily executed' cannot be hidden from me under the lampshade of 'but the bureaucracy is hypocritical', I am sorry lmao

[uneven ember]

Summarily executed by who? The Inquisition?

[untold swallow]

See except the Inquisition gets up the ass of him and his chapter every other week

[floral herald]

No it’s because they’re at the top haha

[untold swallow]

Are they not under the auspices of the Inquisition?

[floral herald]

Its complicated since claimed and actual authority varies

[untold swallow]

If I am incorrect and their status as a chamber militant is more of a formality then I guess fair enough

Though no stink being kicked up about the sacrifices that I am aware of

Bothers me still

[floral herald]

But the grey knights were established by the orders of Malcador before the Inquisition even existed

[untold swallow]

Well

[floral herald]

So they draw their authority from the same “level”

[uneven ember]

But also the Inquisition are exactly the guys who do blood sacrifice to deal with daemon incursions if necessary.

[untold swallow]

To serve Malcador, whose powers have been taken up by the Inquisition

An inquisitor ordering it would unironically make it make more sense to me

[floral herald]

AIUI the status quo is more or less that the GK put themselves in service of the Inquisition as a chamber militant and in return the Inquisition does not oversee them internally

They’re just the secret anti daemon guys

[untold swallow]

Ahhhhhhhhkay

[floral herald]

And with a 0 in 10,000 years failure rate for corruption and the GK having about as many backdoors into the imperial machine as the custodes it’s worked ok for them

[untold swallow]

Still think it's dumb but for the reasons I think the Greys are dumb, and the whole fridging aspect

As opposed to being additionally dumb

[floral herald]

Something I like about the GK is that they’re basically chaos immune and they’re a bunch of extremely hardcore atheists who just do it with psychic and material skill and works

They’re like a relic of what could have been kinda

They’re also all huge assholes but in kind of a “space special forces” kind of way

[untold swallow]

I mean if you like that more power to you

I like the idea of struggling with Chaos

How getting fuckin angry plays into Khorne

Selfish desires, perfectionism, and obsession into Slaanesh

etc etc

[finite compass]

I mean it doesn't necessarily make you go full Chaos crazy, but it's sure as hell feeding it

[floral herald]

I mean I agree - what I like about the GK is that they work (outlandishly) hard for their chaos immunity

[finite compass]

I mean unless they're written by Mat Ward and just slaughter a bunch of Sisters for it.

[floral herald]

They’re also kind of an unscalable and insanely wasteful organization to do it

[floral herald]

Scroll up lol

[finite compass]

No

I refuse.

[untold swallow]

I mean all I know about Grey Knights and their immunity is 'they are the best trained librarians in the entire Imperium granted the gene-seed of the Emperor, so they're incorruptible'

[floral herald]

IIRC it’s something like a million aspirants burned through to make a single field-ready knight

[untold swallow]

This doesn't make me like them more this is just a writer trying to create proof about how special and cool they are

[floral herald]

They definitely have a lot of insights into the warp others don’t since they have a pretty much unparalleled amount of forbidden lore but idk about best trained

The emperor’s geneseed thing is afaik in universe speculation and/or a fan thing

Afaik it’s not officially stated anywhere but based on what we know it’s probably chimeric between a bunch of legions

[untold swallow]

fair about the geneseed thing

also if the greys aren't the best trained librarians who are?

Who else would it be if not 'the literal legion who are all anti-daemon psykers'

[floral herald]

I don’t think it’s definitively stated

There’s tidbits like Tigurius or the Red Scorps guy being strongest

[untold swallow]

I mean in terms of like

as a body

The average space marine librarian vs the average grey knight

[floral herald]

Oh as a whole it’s probably the GK because they’re all battle psykers but the individuals aren’t that strong and have highly specialized training

Like a Librarian is a better psyker than any standard GK, who basically just knows Aegis, Hammerhand, eat hot chip, and kill

[untold swallow]

Right

I forgot about the joke that is the fact most Grey Knights don't know Smite

[floral herald]

AIUI the average GK is a pretty weak psyker (they’re mostly pulled from throne-food iirc) but they drill like 2-3 powers super hard

[untold swallow]

man

[floral herald]

And interestingly, I don’t think there’s any super notable GK librarians

[uneven ember]

Always remember the Inquisitor's creed:
anyone who is less willing than you to use forbidden knowledge and tools is a weakling unwilling to take the steps necessary to defeat the Imperium's enemies
anyone who is more willing than you to use forbidden knowledge and tools is a heretic

[floral herald]

Like they have them but they’re pretty unexceptional?

[untold swallow]

Now I wanna see a GK get jobbed by a Dark Angel or something in a psyker duel

[floral herald]

It’s probably not that weird

The GK are an extremely specialized fighting force

Like there was a funny thing with their old flyer which is illustrative

[uneven ember]

(I remember when you could only take GK Termies in your army if you were fighting CSM)

[floral herald]

The normal space marine stormraven has a pack of powerful antitank missiles

The GK stormraven instead has a bunch of missiles loaded with hexagrammatic silver or something

For daemons

Because the GK don’t traditionally fight people with tanks

Or at least, tanks which aren’t possessed

So the GK are super elite but also like… kind of jobbers for fighting space marines

[untold swallow]

"Hey Grey Knight, look what I can do." zaps on electric light

"Fuck you."

All right I'm gonna stop I've yukked your yums too much as is

[pastel rampart]

They are on average about as powerful as an IG psyker, just that they're 1) specialized, 2) really good at channeling as a group, and 3) seem to use it mostly for their force weapons and communicating telepathically.

It's like uuuuuh way back in 2e/3e when you had various levels of heroes based on points, a single GK is about as powerful psyker-wise as whatever the lowest-level librarian was. Which was just one power and a force sword.

[still warren]

They also killed anyone who wasn't inquisition/space Marines who saw them until the great rift happened right?

[pastel rampart]

Lexicanum, that was the lowest rank of a librarian.

[floral herald]

That was SOP but didn’t always happen

[floral herald]

Oh interesting, stronger than I remember

I started playing in 4e

[untold swallow]

I do like how the names of the librarian ranks are just

[floral herald]

I do remember the Lexicanum/Codicier/Epistolary split though

[pastel rampart]

Yeah by 4e it was mostly gone as GW removed the various lower-rank aspects of heroes.

[untold swallow]

dumb Latin or faux-Latin for book of knowledge, writer, and 'relating to writing'

[floral herald]

Makes sense, I mostly remember it from older books

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grey_Knights_Librarian Now, actual GK librarians are probably closer to a SM chief librarian in power because they have the talent and focus that other GK don't have.

[floral herald]

Like being able to take a shittier captain-equivalent for Black Templars if you wanted to save points

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valdar_Aurikon lol he exploded into gold

In late M41, Aurikon and his Brotherhood came to the aid of the Space Wolves Chapter, when the Daemon Prince Magnus led an invasion of their Homeworld Fenris. However, he was later killed by Magnus, after the Daemon Prince caught the Grandmaster's psychic lightning and hurled it back at him, causing Aurikon's body to turn into nuggets of fool's gold.[2]

[untold swallow]

lmao wtf

Oh, also

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-rings-game-gif-15956241

[uneven ember]

(you didn't though that +1 Ld army-wide was mandatory when you needed to check morale any time you took a shooting casualty)

[pastel rampart]

(previous gif seemed too rapid)

[untold swallow]

someone brought up the Khorne axe Grimnar has

[uneven ember]

not even real gold, the disrespect

[untold swallow]

I have decided the chapter master of my homebrew dark angels successor has a reforged Tzeentch sword

[floral herald]

Yeah lol one of the most pointless characters ever penned

[untold swallow]

XD

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aldrik_Voldus Only one, and he did get a Joytoy figure so I think that's notable.

[uneven ember]

I worked my army fluff to explain why I had two Marshals in my Crusade (basically one of them was a Castellan so good he had Marshal stats)
so I could have a cheap small game Leadership boost Marshal and a pile on all the upgrades Marshal Fuckshitup

[floral herald]

Haha

[uneven ember]

considering remodeling him as a Counts As Helbrecht

[untold swallow]

More effort than I put in with my army lol

'This Judiciar is a chaplain by lore and there's also another chaplain in the same army, fuck you'

'And technically the Judiciar is by lore the other chaplain's superior'

I do think it's funny how many of my characters actually fit as Counts As of other characters

[jaunty dawn]

the inquisition didnt even know about the gk for a while

institutionally at least

chambers militant are all kinda pretty much. idk pretty much an abandoned concept imo

like deathwatch pretty much just work alone? they send exactly the right amount of marines to deal with a specific problem and the ordo xenos part is probably more intelligence gathering than anything

sisters of battle are theoretically associated with the ordo hereticus and the eclessiarchy, and being Not Marines are more bound than most, but are also a sword of damocles against corruption in any branch of the imperium

and then gk and malleus are just this weird area where they kinda co-operate and do similar things

[wild fog]

The funniest thing about GKs is 100% they were originally sold as being the most Spacemarine.

Like the super elite hardcore anti-daemon types that were more Space Marine than all the other chapters.

Now Custodes kinda eating their themed lunch

(This again brought to you by how much they were hyped up when they debuted with Daemonhunters in 4th ed)

[pastel rampart]

They came out in 3rd actually.

[wild fog]

Was that third? I always associated the black border books with 4th

and the gray-border thin splats with 3rd

[pastel rampart]

It was 3rd. Halfway through the edition they started doing black borders.

[wild fog]

I stand corrected. Those two editions always blurred together to me, I think in part because of that change.

I do remember that them all being pewter models and hearing the phrase "Thanks for paying my rent for a month" for someone who went out and bought a 2k army of them when they launched

[thin ibex]

well the thing is that custodes are 100% not space marines

[pastel rampart]

Well, actually I don't think any of them had grey borders.

[thin ibex]

they're just the most elite army you can get

[wild fog]

I know they're not literally space marines but the 'super elite ultra-mega-cool superhuman'

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-cxrdwuin0r/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/59649/197412/54338ae8b28724069cd89bb22f55c1b5077193599e9393af148bbcab5ad34b1b__48904.1698804854.jpg?c=2

Orks had a funky border.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1pEAAOSw5IdmX-Sp/s-l1200.jpg IG also.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f6/Codex_Catachans_FCover.jpg Cata with the camo border

[past sphinx]

GK filled a totally different vibe for me

questing knights and such

[thin ibex]

How might one, if they were imagining hypotheticals within the current rules, reimagine the way a space marine chapter or company banner/ancient is presented in order to make it more of a center piece unit?

I actually quite like GK myself

[past sphinx]

Stodes are much more weird with aestetics and vibe

[thin ibex]

Just not a fan of them being characterized as the ordo malleus' mindless attack dogs

[past sphinx]

aura cover saves

improve WS by 1 or strength by 1

pretty much anything banners used to do

[jaunty dawn]

+1 wound for the purposes of combat resolution? xP

(with the company banner stacking with the unit banner being the unique part of the effect)

[untold swallow]

My extreme nooby shitter response is 'make their stats not balls'

idk they just seem kind of lame next to the other characters

[thin ibex]

Reason I ask is because ancients are kinda by the wayside

Company heroes are alright and have some good play options

But I'd like the banner to be like

The eye magnet on the field

And a centerpiece model

I was thinking a monster unit instead of infantry, that has an ability or a set of abilities that it can choose during the command phase to affect infantry nearby or something

[jaunty dawn]

i think theyve pretty regularly had play in hellblaster balls since 8th at least

[thin ibex]

Not as much in 10th as far as I know?

I would play them in crusade but not as much in normal play except as an indulgence

[thin ibex]

But the battle sister relic unit I forget the name of feels like it might be a great way to reimagine a banner Bearer style thing

[ebon forge]

Adeptus Mechanicus moment

[jaunty dawn]

grimaldus kinda has that vibe

though not sure if you mean the imagifier who looks pretty awesome as is or the special character who. has a name

both are pretty cool

[floral herald]

Dark Angels had some crazy aura buffs on their sacred standards which made them a literal centerpiece in 6e

I forget exactly what they did now though

[south axle]

Is the Triumph of Saint Kathrine a relic unit?

[hybrid oyster]

Relic unit?

[south axle]

In regards to this

[hybrid oyster]

I dont think so? Because I think they're referring to units that are in legends? And triumph is not.

[south axle]

The base for that was how to make a banner a eye magnet/centerpiece

[hybrid oyster]

When in doubt

Add more flags

And add height

thats how I did my lord solar proxy. built up a cork tower and at the highest point I put my flags

[thin ibex]

This is the relic unit I was referring to, in that they are carrying a lot of relics

[thin ibex]

generally i imagine, instead of a leader unit that you can attach to a infantry unit with moderate to lackluster abilties; you have a single monster unit that has a powerful ability/abilities. Think like a primarch aura without the whole primarch

possibly with an honor guard or something

poops out a lot of basic fire and has a buncha wounds

something for your marines to really rally around

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1g9fcc5/death_company_marines_bantax_assault_markings/ I love this look of Death Company colors just spraypainted on

[floral herald]

Field expedient D-coy colors rule yeah

[tired cairn]

"Settlers of C'tan" is a great name for a list: https://youtu.be/6D50pGsNhIQ?si=gjdhSjU9K1f4RCLi

[past sphinx]

chaplains keep a spare can of black and red spray paint on em just in case

[past sphinx]

not sure if this head works or not

[junior robin]

maybe a wash on it to accent the details under the face paint? 🤔

[past sphinx]

hmm yeah a darker wash then highlight the rivets

hardest thing you can do is making something look like it was poorly painted

[floral herald]

Mood

[pastel rampart]

There is thankfully little tricks to help with that.

[desert jay]

||Okay, that last part makes it seem like a bit and it's not that bad||

[uneven ember]

Reminds me of how the Red Corsairs used to do, back when they were the Red Scars
Colors of their loyalist chapters but red paint over the symbols and Imperial iconography

[upper bluff]

That's such a cool aesthetic too, I still want to make a CSM army with that theme

Its definitely a "I have so much paint what should I do with it" kind of build

not a first army theme but like a 3rd or 4th

[tired cairn]

||it's probably not that bad, but that just makes GW cowards||

[upper bluff]

40k beanboozled when

[tired cairn]

Oh, lmao, it actually smells like ||cleaning products||

[past sphinx]

ah yea thats a lot better

[floral herald]

https://x.com/warhammer/status/1849058815955644474?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Warhammer Official (@warhammer) on X

To combat a human rebellion, the T'au Empire has called in the experts!

Learn more about the forthcoming Black Library novel, Elemental Council. https://t.co/NWjwo4LtaJ

#BlackLibrary #WarhammerCommunity

Twitter · Oct 23, 2024, 12:02 PM

Seems neat

[pastel rampart]

Animorphs-ass cover tho

[floral herald]

Lmao yah

That’s the vibe

[past sphinx]

what are the odds its a secret chaos cult

or gsc

[floral herald]

Secret chaos from the pov of the tau sounds neat

But I think they’re kinda low

Antagonist is apparently a Raptor marine fomenting rebellion

[still warren]

2001 pc ass cutscene screen

[south axle]

Water & Earth on the left side and Air & Fire on the right, ye?

[past sphinx]

yup

though thats a skinny ass earth caste

[south axle]

The girl in the back?

[past sphinx]

yeah

i believe earth caste are notably built like bricks

[pastel rampart]

~~ Ken Penders ass cover~~

[south axle]

Doesn't look that bricky to me

[tardy vault]

yeah, forehead is too small

[past sphinx]

bricky isnt blue

[south axle]

Tho her shoulder pad art does not look very Tau

[pastel rampart]

In oldhammer rare finds: scored some Battle Master board game beastmen for about 5 bux.

And they are hilariously so weedy compared to normal Gors lmao

[jaunty dawn]

earth caste should be big butches send tweet

they are the eat lots of produce and livestock while building big things caste

[pastel rampart]

Cross-cultural exchange with humans sees them wearing flannel more and more often.

[mental birch]

Pfffft

[lucid scarab]

LOVE these

[ebon forge]

https://fixupx.com/rnrqkq123/status/1833159905118966015

[silk verge]

been listening to renegades lord of excess on my commutes to work lately

is xantine just fucking stupid

what’s his problem

[ebon forge]

Have to read that

A dude on reddit asked to grab teh part in Betrayer where angron was eating rocks under rubble to try and free himself
And still
Betrayer is funny as hell

'The shaking started, harder, heavier. He slavered with it, crawling faster,
the stones carving into his muscles as he dragged himself over them, under
them, through them.
Angron, you’re crawling downwards, deeper into the earth.
No. That wasn’t true.'(...)
(...)
He started screaming, venting his precious breath into the place between
panic and rage. Blood sheeted from his mouth and nose. The pain engine in
his skull tick-tocked into overdrive, knifing its needles deeper into the meat
of his mind. He had to kill. He had to kill. He wasn’t weak. He wasn’t
scared. He wasn’t helpless.
‘Kill,’ he choked the words out, gagging on a mouthful of rock. ‘Kill.
Maim. Burn.’(...)

Or when Lorgar tried to explain that, when he fought against Leman
he lost
Even if he had the most kills at the end

[silk verge]

[ebon forge]

(...)
‘You didn’t answer Russ’s question,’ he said. ‘Did you truly learn nothing
from that fight?’
Angron blinked, the dull edge of surprise coming into his eyes. ‘What
revelation should I have come to? I learned he wasn’t allowed to kill me. I
learned he postured in the hope of bringing me back to Terra, collared and
submissive to his whims.’
‘No.’ Lorgar was almost breathless in disbelief. ‘No, no, no. Angron, you
stubborn fool. None of that matters.’
‘There were more dead Wolves on that field than dead World Eaters. That
matters.’
That, thought Lorgar, was also arguable, but he let it pass. ‘Russ had you
cold. You said you had him at your mercy, but he crawled free.’
‘He crawled.’ Angron chuckled again, making a meal of the word.
‘And when he rose, he had you surrounded. He could have killed you.’
‘He tried and failed.’
‘His men, Angron. His Legion could have killed you. Whether the
Emperor ordered it or not, Russ spared your life. He didn’t retreat in shame, you arrogant…’ Lorgar sighed. ‘He was probably lamenting your thickskull all the way back to Terra, hoping you’d heed a rather consummate lesson in brotherhood and loyalty. Look what happened. Yes, you beat him in a duel. Yes, your men took down more of his than his of yours. And yet,
who won the battle?’
‘The World Eaters,’ Angron said without hesitation.
(...)

‘No.’ Lorgar was almost breathless in disbelief.
easily
The funniest book in the Horus Heresy

[silk verge]

it’s so funny how many primarchs are just actually THAT dumb

[spice flicker]

I know CSM often strive for daemon prince elevation but what do chaos knight pilots strive for or get rewarded with when they sufficiently please the gods?

[finite compass]

The same thing.

For a lot of Knight pilots/Titan Princeps, ascension basically means that they become fused into their machine as one daemonic entity

[spice flicker]

I see

[ebon forge]

That tend to happen when you use machinery and work with Chaos, the captain of the first World Eater main ship ended up fused with the ship itself while her soul started to wander around

[ebon forge]

Or petty
At the start of the book Lorgar was talking with Magnus
And Magnus was just being such a fucking snob until Lorgar asked "And how are your sons doing?'

[ebon forge]

I do have a good book about Knight Pilots and one shows Knight vs Chaos Knight if you wanna

Becoming from Andy Clark

[ebon forge]

Lorgar just stared at him for several seconds. ‘I appreciate that every
living being must, by the nature of perception, understand and process life in a different way. But even for you, brother, this is achingly obtuse.’

‘You’re saying the Wolves won.’ Angron looked more amused tham
confused.

‘How can you not see it?’ Lorgar steepled his fingers, trying to rein in his
own temper.

[tired cairn]

Does melded pilot/Knights show up in the rules for chaos Knights?

[floral herald]

It’s kinda just the norm I think?

Or a norm

[tired cairn]

Ah, ok

[floral herald]

In Angron’s defense he’s got brain implants which inflict pain when he tries thinking too much

[tired cairn]

So what's the other primarchs' excuse 😛

[paper bluff]

I imagine it this way:

https://youtu.be/D3R-bOKuyGw?si=-Hpwy7z3PiB2e-al

The primarch are the skills going back and forth looking to solve this puzzle

When they could simply "the door is unlocked"

[finite compass]

But yeah

For example

Look up the interior of the old Forge World chaos war hound

[pastel rampart]

https://www.tumblr.com/bfleuter/765168582661439488

[finite compass]

There are definitely still ‘independent’ chaos knight pilots

It’s just merging with the machinery, intentionally or otherwise, seems to be a running theme

For literally everything

Tanks, aircraft, power armor…

[pastel rampart]

Merging with my warhound because I'm just that into yuri.

[finite compass]

I like how Double Eagle described the chaos pilots

They’re augmented to the point that they can only survive for a matter of minutes without being plugged into a life support system. The main antagonist insists on walking the thirty feet or so from his litter to his aircraft unaided as a show of strength

[past sphinx]

hes in a chaos marine book, thats a big stumbling block

double eagle is the reason im going to find one of those old chaos bident flyers one day

[finite compass]

But when in an aircraft they’re controlling it as an extension of themselves, seeing out of the gun cameras, and are basically immune to the effects of high-g maneuvers that would cause an Imperial pilot to stroke out

[silk verge]

Lmao

true

[past sphinx]

red tithe is a 50/50 split book for night lords and space sharks and both are braindead

the nightlords mostly end up killing eachother

[finite compass]

But yeah. The Chaos fighters look dope as fuck

[soft willow]

Are the chaos fighters in lore in 30k, or are they something modeled for BFG then 40k?

Sorta curious if we might see them in Legions Imperialis.

Ah, nope they appear to be made after the Heresy.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hell_Blade

[ebon forge]

Got the goblins on the free blood pass yay
I love how half of the team is ready to get banned from playing on turn 1

[finite compass]

Yeah, they're Dark Mechanicum creations

Post-heresy

Especially the Hell Talons

It is believed that they are fashioned with dark arts that make them more than mere weapons. Their simple existence within the Materium seems to disrupt the natural order and spread malign influence, and the presence of large numbers of Hell Talons have been observed to create unpredictable Warp phenomena. These can take the form of vox-distortion, visual and auditory hallucinations, the darkening of skies, and climatic disturbances.

Harbingers are explicitly mentioned to only really show up with the 13th Black Crusade

That being a Manta-sized heavy bomber with the same general aesthetic beats as the Hellblade and Hell Talon

[uneven ember]

(so mad AI got canned before Chaos came out)

[upper bluff]

Shout out to Dark Mechanicum for making new stuff

Couldn't be the Mechanicus (Jk love you 😘)

Also how big are fighters in BFG?

Because if the ships are the size of Rhode island

[uneven ember]

Not to scale.
One of my favorite little things in BFG, actually: the minis aren't to scale with the battlefield, every ship is actually a dot somewhere in the middle of the flying stem, so you measure stem to stem for weapon ranges and stuff. The base marks where something is close enough that it might be able to effect the ship.

[upper bluff]

That's a cool little detail

Also I realized after I asked about scale that the actual mini has a decent view of the cockpit

[uneven ember]

So attack craft are modeled by tokens (square base size) to represent a squad.
If the token can reach a ship's base or another attack craft token they can cause an effect.

Bombers, assault boats, and torpedoes attack ships, fighters take away other attack craft.

[uneven ember]

& actually, noting here, they were modeled after BFG's initial run
Pretty sure they were Forgeworld originals, not sure if they were modeled first for 40K Apocalypse scale or the Forgeworld version of Aeronautica Imperialis
Either way, everything fanmade I've seen people do with BFG has used the chaos fighters, because... I mean, c'mon, they're sick

[past sphinx]

BFG has a uhh very interesting relationship with scale

being that nothing is in scale, everything is kinda vaugely the right shape and its all handwaved

[uneven ember]

Part of the process of ramming is that, if you can get in base-to-base with the other ship while moving (no turns), you need to roll Leadership to navigate precisely enough to hit them

[pulsar cairn]

is that an ork who hangs out with goblins?

or is it a big goblin?

[ebon forge]

A Troll, actually

A Trained Troll! Very rare thing

[pulsar cairn]

ooh

[runic swallow]

Are trolls the ones that regenerate forever?

[pastel rampart]

Until hit with fire, yeah

They're probably immortal, theoretically anyway.

[finite compass]

The original BFG Chaos Fighters were...

Quite a bit less aesthetic.

unrelated

[floral herald]

The BFG small craft models were all weird chunky little models

Doomfire and Swiftdeath classes if there's more recent stuff on them

[pulsar cairn]

[uneven ember]

Yeah, glancing at the wikis they get brief mentions in the RPGs
but mostly everyone seems to have decided we're doing Hellblades and Helltalons now, which I get

[soft willow]

I honestly can't remember the figher models for it since we only ever used the cardboard tokens from the starter.

[spice flicker]

Does it cost RP to bring an epic hero in crusade? If not would a house rule making them cost 1 rp each be fair?

[verbal tangle]

I know there are a few 40k RPG players here- I'm working on rules for mines and IEDs, does this document make any kind of sense?

[past sphinx]

my brain pains looking at it, witch is on par with all the 40k rpgs welldone

if i was doing black crusade instead of rouge trader this would be emminetly useful

[verbal tangle]

"Seneschal, you see that continent?"
"Yes m'lud."
"I want it covered in anti-tank mines."
"At once, m'lud."

[past sphinx]

none of my players would be smart enough to consider airdeployment of mines

their currently trying to think of a large enough rock to blugeon a halo device monster to death with

they might figure out fire in the next year

note they have a fucking multimelta

[runic swallow]

What is a direct fire artillery piece but a very fast rock?

[runic swallow]

Though, smh, less inventive than Cold War NATO or Soviets

[past sphinx]

the problem being that they are inside a void ship and lacking direct fire arty

though they have most of a tank

[runic swallow]

That’d work

Russians are using scavenged BMP autocannons as field guns, anything is possible with enough Joes/Ivans and some welding equipment

[past sphinx]

somehow i know their gonna ram it through a window

it'll be rad as hell

last time they had to kill a big bad on a void ship they put a las cannon through the bridge

[mental birch]

Calm down there char

The spite bazooka

[wild fog]

I loved Battlefleet Gothic. Totally vibes based balance. Factions were playing very different games.

Eldar had to pay attention to the direction of a sun but basically had double moves, Tau basically didn't worry about fire arcs, orks just out there ramming everything

Some factions were brutal hardcounters. Eldar vs Ork was usually VERY one sided.

Necrons on the other hand ignored the holofields Eldar created so they just murdered them.

Really flavorful game which is what you want out of specialist games

[runic swallow]

Didn’t necrons murder most everything?

[wild fog]

Yeah pretty much

They could be hard to pilot weirdly. At least one necron player i played with struggled

[finite compass]

Necrons were pretty much "You're going to murder everything, but your flagship costs a third of the entire points limit"

IIRC the Cairn-class was like 500 or 550

[wild fog]

Also bfg models were super satisfying to paint. You could do amazing flourishes but honestly a simple dry brush and light detail looked great

[finite compass]

They were well designed like that.

Most of the factions had big areas for a spot color as well

The armored prow for Imperials, the trim for Chaos, the sails for Eldar...

[uneven ember]

Necrons were completely busted but also it was entirely possible for Necrons to table their opponents and still lose.

[mental birch]

Tau does have 1 arc

It's the front

[uneven ember]

Unusually among GW games, BFG rewarded you for bailing before getting killed. Your opponent would get some VP if your crippled cruiser disengages but not nearly as many as if they got the kill.
Necrons could disengage from the fight at any time (teleport away) but got hit with much worse penalties for getting a ship killed, they're supposed to vanish mysteriously not fight it out to the end

[uneven ember]

Front Toward Enemy

also I love that the Tau bomber squad is, explicitly, One Manta.

[past sphinx]

a family can be a single manta

[upper bluff]

Does that disengage rule include imperial ships?

Does the value of a space ship outweigh the die in glory attitude of the imperium?

BFG sounds so cool

[wild fog]

Yes. Because the ships are irreplaceable

[uneven ember]

Glory in death is great and all but capital ships are expensive

[upper bluff]

Alright makes sense, but the imperium also isn't known for making sense so I wanted to double check

[wild fog]

Fun fact, when fighting tyranids and only fighting Tyranids you could self destruct a boarded vessel.

That's because anyone tyranids boarded were super dead

[upper bluff]

Was that a rule for all factions against tyranids or just Inperium

[uneven ember]

anyone, IIRC

[upper bluff]

That kinda bums me, I can't imagine necrons doing that

[wild fog]

I think all factions fighting tyranid. They were the strongest boarders because it wasn't just the boarders it was the ship eating the crew

[upper bluff]

I should talk my friends into trying it with me

[uneven ember]

Tyranids were fun, but also weird, because mostly your fleet just operates by a flow chart.
If you want to actually play the game yourself you could make Ld rolls

[granite basin]

the imperium is full of fascist byzantine nonsense, but they're also incredibly stagnant and keep a miserable status quo. replacing a capital ship requires a lot more work and time than other megaprojects, if even possible at all, and the powers that be don't like doing that too often

[upper bluff]

Just peaked at the rules and wow centimeters!

[wild fog]

It's also why they'll risk all sorts of terrors on space hulks. Because they might walk away with a ship and that is worth any risk

[uneven ember]

Also Imperial ships can take the Power Ram upgrade.
It's like a power sword
but a ram

[uneven ember]

& yeah, centimeters!
you even had centimeter versions of those plastic rods GW used to sell in their starter boxes

[desert jay]

Crunchy crunchy ancient robot mummies

[mental birch]

Having played gothic

Tau is silly fun

Warden wolfpacks

Are scary good

Got the jump on a chaos battleship once

[uneven ember]

also related to Tau and fun
the "Tau bomber squads are one manta" ties into something fun about Tau in Aeronautica Imperialis, which is that they're the only guys who just don't use bombs.
"Bomber" aircraft just have guns big enough to blow up ground targets.

[finite compass]

Also the rules for Daemonships were fun.

Basically they can 'haunt' the board, and move around insubstantially. Can't attack, can't be attacked, but anything near them is getting a leadership penalty

But then can pop into substantiality in the end phase

And then can disengage itself from the battle

And then come back again

So it's basically a ghost ship that keeps phasing in and out of existence

[uneven ember]

Chaos fleets have rules for "ghost ship" it's great

[finite compass]

Stupid idea

Have this

Painted on a wall on a ruined building or something for tabletop terrain

As Genestealer Cult Graffiti

[jaunty dawn]

the death guard team really shows how boring the justian sculpts are for a heroes release

i think the main guy I like is smoke grenade guy

maybe a little bit thats the standard being raised by the customisation and poses offered by stuff like the intercessor kit in general but like. exceed that standard gw. thats the selling point of heroes

[south axle]

Important news

[south axle]

Seraphon Warband brings us little friendos! https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/yfkfam1u/warhammer-underworlds-snapping-saurus-and-rheumy-plaguebearers-join-two-new-rivals-decks/

[jaunty dawn]

minor daemons refresh wheeeeen

little guy

xP

[mental birch]

Need the cute little things!

[solemn gull]

Hey that’s just lore accurate to the tactical level of most warhammer characters

[tardy vault]

https://youtu.be/ilmdkyoSi2Y

[solemn gull]

I love their coverage of oldhammer

[mental birch]

It wasn't about balance it was about hunting them down if you threw a little too hard

[floral herald]

https://x.com/nfteefz/status/1849489755496481034?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

NFTeef (@NFTeefz) on X

🔥👀🔥

Twitter · Oct 24, 2024, 4:34 PM

Yoooooooo

Glad to see the excellent eldar aesthetic maintains

[jaunty dawn]

is this fire dragon man

[floral herald]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

fire dragon and warp spiders are the only outstanding right? not counting phoenix lords

[rocky shale]

Oh my gooood

[jaunty dawn]

and the fw guys

[rocky shale]

Hawks are also still finecast and the scorp lord and dire avengers lord too

[jaunty dawn]

i really like how they've painted him, its cool when eavy metal get to break a little bit out of the house style

[rocky shale]

DA lord is rumored to be getting an update with the codex

[jaunty dawn]

oh riiiight dire avengers and hawks

cause da need an update ngl

that mold is grody

eldar are so funny tbh like

[jaunty dawn]

its absolutely fair to vent abt having old models in your range but guys you have like 8x2 kits JUST counting aspecy warriors

[rocky shale]

DAs are at least plastic, asurmen isn't tho

[jaunty dawn]

that is significantly more than some peoples full range

like on the order of double to triple

[rocky shale]

It looks like fuegan has a second profile on his gun now too

[floral herald]

Asurman needs it more than DAs imo

[jaunty dawn]

dire avengers just need like

[rocky shale]

Assault melta 1 sustained 2 3 shots S8 -3AP D2 is kinda crazy

[jaunty dawn]

an upgrade sprue really

but theyll probably still get a big kit one day

[rocky shale]

They could honestly just be a guardian upgrade sprue

It's a popular kitbash

[jaunty dawn]

yeah exactly

they just need heads that arent. like that

[rocky shale]

Oh wait he already had a profile like this but with no melta or assault and sustained d3

[unreal cosmos]

dooope

[tired cairn]

I guess the other hand goes just before the muzzle when they aim it, but it seems like the two hands are very close together for such a long weapon lol

(also is that like, a second underbarrel melta?)

[rocky shale]

He's a Phoenix lord, he just 1 hands it always

[rocky shale]

For the second weapon profile?

[tired cairn]

I'm not sure what you mean, but I mean on the gun itself

[rocky shale]

Oh his gun has 2 firing modes in the datasheet

[paper bluff]

Is that the one new model eldar are going to get with thier codex release?

[rocky shale]

Rumor is we're getting a bigger update

Like 4-5 kits

[tired cairn]

Year of the Aspect Warrior hopefully

[rocky shale]

Basically most the resin range replaced

[tired cairn]

How much resin isn't aspect warriors?

[paper bluff]

We talking finecast only?

[tired cairn]

Uh, stuff that is in the codex but not plastic (i.e. not forge world)

[rocky shale]

Yeah that's what I meant

[floral herald]

https://x.com/autumnarchfey/status/1849493124533424381?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

AutumnArchfey (@AutumnArchfey) on X

Good Guy Farseer

Twitter · Oct 24, 2024, 4:48 PM

[desert jay]

Maybe Farseer has a point here...

[paper bluff]

I'd like to put forth that a good bit of the more interesting custodes units, while not in the codex but are both usable in 30 and 40k legally, and as such should be included

[tired cairn]

Oh yeah, a bunch of that should transition into plastic and into the codex as they are pretty standard in Custodes armies

(the plastic FW knight should also show up in the knight codex imo)

[paper bluff]

Aye agreed

The custodes stuff is like...... 40% forge world and lord please just.... please the forge world stuff is always sold out.

Give me them in plastic

Or more weapon options for the contemptor so the horus heresy contemptor buy feels more worth it

[pulsar cairn]

they look so good! are those dreads?

[paper bluff]

Yep. The custodes have special dreadnought and a heavy version called the telemon

Another bad thing is the recastors for them are in Ukraine and Russian so kinda a problem there

[bright dove]

I am now thinking of Brother Santodes

[tepid stratus]

Telemon my beloved, how I wish you weren't shit in 10th

[thin ibex]

telemon are like... old af right?

like hella important individuals in teh custodes

[paper bluff]

Yeah

[paper bluff]

They did give it an unmentioned extra ability. Mind you custodes dreads in general pretty underwehlming

[thin ibex]

i feel like these days the galatus is actually pretty alright

[thin ibex]

though im a fan of the achillues for hitting power

the extra save on the galatus is decent

casestus telemon feels a bit memy but i would run it that way

[paper bluff]

I kinda want to get an achillus

At 155 points it's getting into distraction carnifex range

[thin ibex]

ehhh, its a little bit, but a big part of a distraction carnifex is that it can actually do some damage if they dont deal with it

most o the time its just terminators and regular custodians all around, or wardens with characters

the dread helps break that up a bit

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/MarcoMA4PS/status/1849069852234793313?t=-H-WFRs5z-Y0ims0NMQWOA&s=19

🦇 Marco Maps Bernardini 👻 (@MarcoMA4PS) on X

The most realistic color scheme in #SpaceMarine2 . The Unpainted Chapter.

Twitter · Oct 23, 2024, 12:46 PM

[paper bluff]

If only one could make the lenses grey then 100% accurate

[tepid stratus]

It tragically needs to waddle into combat to make use of that. In my experience it rarely gets that far

[pastel rampart]

Got that mounted BSB in.

I have no idea yet what the banner is gonna look like.

[past sphinx]

big yellow grinning skull!

nothing like a BYGS

[pastel rampart]

I'm gonna dig through a bunch of oldhammer chaos banners and see if anything inspires me.

[soft willow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/974482941214326814/1299156954614206534/image0.png?ex=671c2db3&is=671adc33&hm=adc8acebc9df4872edbefe2a6a9006ea67fb506d0c3d1ef36927333d14f32039&

[past sphinx]

melta lance baby!

[uneven ember]

awwwwwww yeeeee

[floral herald]

Since 1993!

[granite basin]

adeptus asstartes

[floral herald]

"Yet still, there was to be a branding upon the leather-tough buttocks: an imprint of a clenched fist, no larger than a fingernail. Only, this was indeed to be an honour - for the Sergeant himself personally wielded the electro-iron when Lexandro, Yeremi, and Biff bent over to flex the great gluteal muscles of their rumps."

Ian Watson, Space Marine

[past sphinx]

the even heavier bolt pistol

[floral herald]

https://fixupx.com/warhammer/status/1849405759479493014?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Im not usually that big on Nurgle models

But I love the drippy cheese bruhs in this team

[past sphinx]

You know, I can't think of a lizard release that's really grabbed me

They should but something feels missing

They do not exude violence

[remote wharf]

I wanna huff some hopium and say that the new Fuegan and what ever other new elder stuff is stuff is coming as also heralding an EC update and the next big box.

[pulsar holly]

Anyone had a chance to look at the new Dwarf book for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4E?

[ebon forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBCa_xgNbRg 10/10 start
Also the slaanesh daemon looks os friendly, damn.

[floral herald]

https://x.com/warhammer/status/1849824179572355525?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Warhammer Official (@warhammer) on X

Fuegan has emerged from the Webway to bring fiery retribution to the enemies of the Aeldari!

Take a closer look at the Phoenix Lord's new miniature: https://t.co/Ou69miiINV

#WarhammerCommunity

Twitter · Oct 25, 2024, 2:43 PM

lol officially announced now

[past sphinx]

Didn't have a lot of choice i suppose

[thin ibex]

He looks pretty cool

[ebon forge]

Fuego (Spanish for Fire) + Lance = Fuegan! Ooooh

[runic swallow]

I see you have tapped into the way half of all Warhammer characters are named

[ebon forge]

It's always fun

It's like a pokémon

Like so

[upper bluff]

The new Fuegan model looks so good

Tactical rock looks great

[floral herald]

I think it’s cool how much of the old model stuck around

[bold halo]

yeah it really does just feel like an update, it kept so much of the original design

helmet's the same, axe and gun are the same, kept the shoulders, kept the skull on the belt, gauntlet details, even the cross body belt

[pastel rampart]

Kinda miss the scales tho.

[paper bluff]

I wonder what would happen if you put one of those arco flagglent pacifier helms on a world eater

[finite compass]

I think broadcasting soothing Imperial hymnals directly into the brain would have the opposite of the intended effect

[jagged dawn]

https://x.com/mick19988/status/1849882388266209744?s=46&t=oWW_NnXMz5xZU9SUUTq01g

Mick (@Mick19988) on X

[WIP] Solar Auxilia Drop Troop
#warhammer40000

Twitter · Oct 25, 2024, 6:35 PM

[past sphinx]

Fellow true divinity pilled chads what the hell do you use autocannons for that you wouldn't rather use a lascannon on

[hybrid oyster]

9th edition sentinels if facing marines

[bright dove]

Orks of all stripes

[finite compass]

Larger squads of tougher low-wound infantry

[past sphinx]

Finally a worthy foe for stilt man

[finite compass]

Also I like the fact I can stick them on Terminators

Though just from looking at Wahapedia, the stats are different now between Autocannons and Reaper Autocannons?

I'm used to them at S7 so seeing Autocannons at S9 now is kind of a 'wut'

[tired cairn]

Hypothetically, the stats of autocannons can be different between different units under GW's new datasheet philosophy

[finite compass]

I'm comparing the Termi Reaper AC to the AC in the Havoc entry

The Reaper is D1 instead of D3, and S7 instead of S9

But it's 4 shots at 36" and gets Devastating Wounds and Sustained Hits

[tired cairn]

Iirc for the 10e release they mentioned that by not having faction level weapon lists, it gives them the freedom to balance the weapon for the unit instead of having consistency across the army for a weapon

Though they probably try for consistency by default?

[finite compass]

On the one hand, meh. On the other, I can definitely see it working with certain vehicles.

Because, like, in the past for something that's supposed to be an all-rounder main battle tank, a single autocannon as the default armament on a predator was pretty anemic.

As it is

It looks like if it's just called a standard Lascannon, Autocannon, or what have you the stats are gonna be identical across datasheets with the exception of BS

But this way you can say it's a 'Predator Autocannon' and give it rapid fire and 4 attacks

[runic swallow]

That already did that before this iirc

Specially for the Predator

[finite compass]

I have a giant blank spot in my memory from 4th/5th to what we have now, so...

That probably tracks. 😛

Space Marines having multiple wounds is new and confusing to me.

Hell, weapons having a damage stat is new and confusing to me

[tired cairn]

A 10e example is that when the index for admech came out, the Dunecrawler heavy phosphor blaster was the same as other heavy phosphor blaster and so sucked on it. They fixed that later lol

Multiple damage weapons is older than space Marines having two wounds

The later is I think is 8e for primaris and 9e for all of them?

[finite compass]

Yep

[floral herald]

I think it was about 6e or 7e when the Predator got a bespoke autocannon

[finite compass]

And for a brief, glorious moment, CSM had Primaris stats while there were wstill separate-statline Firstborn running around

[floral herald]

Which is nice because the old predator sucked lol

Predator destructor anyway

[finite compass]

Yes

Back in the day, I typically ran an Annihilator with Daemonic Possession and used it as a Distraction Carnifex

[jaunty dawn]

the real change with 10e was stuff like intercessor bolt rifles still being called the same thing while having assault and heavy, rather than the same name meaning the same stats and requiring a special rule to modify them

[tired cairn]

The change to tags over weapon types was very good

Though I'm annoyed they didn't go with tags over "a bolt weapon is a weapon with bolt in the name or x, y z"

[thin ibex]

I know pred annihilator it's always gonna be a pick over the destructor because Las, but I like the destructor because I'm an autocannon fan

[finite compass]

Dakka is always more fun than Pew Pew

This is just a universal truth

[floral herald]

I think the predator destructor is pretty solid atm

6 S9 D3 shots at 24” isn’t bad

For chaos I think it’s kind of crowded out by the Forgefiend though

[tired cairn]

I feel like both are in danger of being on the eventual chopping block (moreso for the loyalists given the state of the Rhino)

... There is a Rhino Primaris that can't transport primaris armored Marines? GW please

[thin ibex]

a bit sad, the gladiator reaper is cool but its no predator destructor

with the thump thump thump

its more brrrt

[jaunty dawn]

wait what

ohh

cause the dedicated transports stayed locked

but yeah rhino primaris has nothing to do with primaris haha

[finite compass]

If they squat all the non-Primaris stuff, I'm going to be annoye

...Can we callt it squatting anymore now that they're technically back?

[jaunty dawn]

we have to call it zoating

[finite compass]

They're back too

Albeit in Fantasy

[jaunty dawn]

there's like one guy and his backstory is defined by the fact that zoats got zoated

oh

right

those guys

I think fantasy zoats just never like, really left

[finite compass]

I think I was thinking of Fimir

These guys

[jaunty dawn]

oh waht those are cool

[upper canopy]

They are but their lore didn't age well

[pastel rampart]

Suuuuuuuuuure didn't!

[upper bluff]

Racist or sexual violence?

[finite compass]

The latter

||They have to kidnap human females to reproduce||

IDK if that's still a thing though

[pastel rampart]

I think the last time it was mentioned was WHFB 3rd ed. Possibly Storm of Magic.

[finite compass]

IIRC there was a WFRP 2e mention

[tardy vault]

Well, that's bow snakes done. Pro tip: don't paint snakes with stripes. They're a massive pain the ass to do

Thinking of a scarlet kingsnake as the scheme for my Ironscale
more stripes, but vertical instead of horizontal and the lines are not nearly as clean

cw snake
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/235369037545078795/1299514731849060463/Scarlet_kingsnake_Lampropeltis_elapsoides.jpg?ex=671d7ae7&is=671c2967&hm=f780c3a34c42dc3858c0d52f02c86cbd2871152fbb5cc9ab22da43c12b41d975& ||

no pictures of the completed set unfortunately

just

all painted out

might grab some shots tomorrow tho

[past sphinx]

look at that little guy1

[tardy vault]

They tiny

[upper canopy]

This was also like, the last time the Fimir were mentioned to begin with

[past sphinx]

mostly around here i just get HUGE spotted kingsnakes and timber rattlers

sometimes we get a black racer or a kingsnake

[tardy vault]

cw: snake

Look at this goober

That's a baby but they don't get very large

16 to 20 in

PSA: while these cuties are harmless, they are very very similar to eastern coral snakes which are quite venomous.

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, they'd been mostly absent from WHFB up until SoM when they got a unit entry and then uh. the whole line died lmao

[junior robin]

black touches yellow, lovely fellow. yellow touches black, its deadly, jack.

[tardy vault]

Red touches yellow it's a deadly fellow

These are red touches black

[junior robin]

thanks, can never get binary options right.

[tardy vault]

Red touches black, friend of Jack. Red touches yellow, deadly fellow.

However, there are several more species with this color combo

and they don't all follow the rhyme so be warned

[uneven ember]

Inconsiderate of them

[remote wharf]

There are in fact several species of coral snake that break the rhyme, with red touching black. So don't go picking up strange colorful snakes. That's a good rule to follow in general really.

[wild fog]

"Just don't pick up snakes. You don't need to pick up snakes."

[remote wharf]

Don't pick up unfamiliar animals in general! Unless you're a zoologist, then that's your job.

[mild glen]

But they're so pretty!

[finite compass]

CW: The horrific consequences of a snake attack

[dense sedge]

cute

[spice flicker]

If only

[still warren]

RIP eternal crusade, if only you we're good

[finite compass]

Do you really want it to be an EA franchise, though?

[untold swallow]

How viable is an Eldar army where I use no Guardians lmao

[finite compass]

Does this also apply to things like war walkers and weapon platforms, or just no squads of guardians?

[untold swallow]

the latter

Though the former sounds funny

[finite compass]

Perfectly doable

Guardians are cheap and battleline

But everything they do, other units can do better

Especially since Dire Avengers are already pretty much Guardians+

[untold swallow]

So far my 'infantry core' if you wanna call it that