Warhammer and Such

[desert jay]

Oh huh, BT now pay a premium for more models

[spice flicker]

Sm in general got hit hard

[desert jay]

I didn't get that far yet

Hahaha Agents unchanged except for a subductor nerf

[spice flicker]

Thank goodness I decided to switch away from agents to either daemons or chaos knights for my crusade

Whicu would you say to go with?

[desert jay]

Not especially it looks like? Just a few units got nerfs and no big swings

[cinder wraith]

world eaters got nothing

i sleep

[spice flicker]

Hmmm....

[desert jay]

You seem to really like C. Knights so I don't see any reason not to go with them unless you're worried about being a skew list at small point values

[spice flicker]

We start at 750 points so technically i could start with an abominant and not break the rules of no models worth over half your army

[jaunty dawn]

chaos knights can be more daemons than daemons can be chaos knights

[spice flicker]

True

[jaunty dawn]

unless you want the army rule anyway

[spice flicker]

Probably start with abominant and 2 stalkers to get some xp on some characters and unofficial herohammer.

[desert jay]

You mean you don't like winged prince? :v

[spice flicker]

Gives me plenty of points to work with when we reach 1k points

Gotta figure out what loadout for the stalkers

To go with

[thin ibex]

Sm seem to have gotten a LOT of points reductions

In terms of number of units that got points cheaper

[desert jay]

Huh, people noting that jumpy vanvets got a lot of play in index BA

[thin ibex]

Agents look pretty much unchanged

[desert jay]

But the unit those vanvets relied on synergy with is gone from codex BA

[thin ibex]

Oh orks be eating good, nothing but points reductions

[floral herald]

I swear CSM is just the same small set of units bouncing back and forth in cost

Funny how there’s a 10 man discount on legionaries and raptors now

[thin ibex]

I was surprised that bullgryns got nerfed again

[floral herald]

Havocs back to 125

[thin ibex]

Logan, thunderwolves, and Bjorn got nerfed

Which makes sense to me

Feels bad for WE, Angron more expensive

[floral herald]

Yooo Vashtorr buffs

It’s just that he’s a valid target for strategems from his own detachment

[upper bluff]

Ok so they just don't know what they're doing with admech the Dunecrawler was one of the most overstatted units in the game

And now it's even cheaper

[thin ibex]

I was under the impression that no one takes it

[upper bluff]

The last balance change made it incredible

All it took was making its gun work

[thin ibex]

Like when I list built for it, neutron gun just seemed rock solid AT, but I thought that people still generally took the skorpius in competetive

[upper bluff]

Nah the 4+ invuln on the Dunecrawler is way better

The Scorpius' lack of an invuln makes it more of a liability than a benefit

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/271775045947359232/1295882160187773009/image.png?ex=6710ec8f&is=670f9b0f&hm=0be5b44a13188a85e7614d6f95c80f84bf6a565d6f9966a0bc4e905bc04d0ad2&

[thin ibex]

I completely agree with you, I'm just saying that last I had checked dunecrawler had not been a popular pick

[thin ibex]

Honestly I really want to get the ready to use terrain, would make it easy to play at home

[upper bluff]

Idk maybe not in tournaments but everyone I know is a huge fan of it, now it's even better

[spice flicker]

I think the ad Mech guy in my crusade was already taking one or two of them.

[thin ibex]

I want to take the phosphor dune crawler some time

Start wars blaster lookin dude

[cosmic tulip]

What are some good Guard books?

[floral herald]

15 hours

[cosmic tulip]

I’ve read Dead Men Walking, the Cain omnibus

[floral herald]

Gaunts ghosts

[cosmic tulip]

Alright

[floral herald]

I’m told Dead Men Walking and Cadian Blood are good but I haven’t read them

[thin ibex]

Gaunts Ghosts is like... exemplary

I'm kinda sad I never finished the series but I forgot which one I left off on

[floral herald]

I also never finished them

It’s a long ass series and wasn’t complete when I was reading them

I’m told Emperor’s Mercy and Flesh and Iron are pretty good but also they’re partially plagiarized from someone’s irl memoirs which is kind of fucked up

And I’m pretty sure they’re very hard to find since the Black Library has scrubbed their hands of them

So this is more of a reverse endorsement

[solemn gull]

Storm of iron is half iron warriors seiging the shit out of a planet and half a lone guardsman being badass and very lucky

[tired cairn]

Points benefits for smaller units seems like a surprising choice to me. Were people taking double strength units of legionnaires and raptors?

... Is the BT points premium because they didn't like the 120 power armor list lol

[jaunty dawn]

legionaries are cheaper at 10 now

I think it's basically cause legionaries were played msu while bt were played buff efficiency

legionaries don't really get played buff efficiency, cause chosen exist

[thin ibex]

full sized squads are cool

[floral herald]

Yeah legionaries mostly got played for cheap midfield lascannons MSU

[thin ibex]

but the game generally doesnt favor them

i like the chaincannon and missile launcher a lot

[floral herald]

They’re honestly pretty good for chaos

[thin ibex]

but las is people's fav

[floral herald]

Since fewer chances to eat shit rolling for pacts

[jaunty dawn]

heavy weapon spam isn't a consideration for crusaders too, yeah

sergeant might get power weapon or something

but buffsss

[thin ibex]

tbh i wouldnt be surprised if in the next edition legionaries just come standard with lascannons instead of picking from a selection of heavies

but i would be disappointed

[jaunty dawn]

lmao??

that would be really odd ngl

[thin ibex]

maybe, but its effectively people's default choice

[tired cairn]

Oh whoops. Forgot those units were 5/10. The point bonus makes more sense now lol

[thin ibex]

squad has heavy weapon? It's a lascannon

[floral herald]

I very much would be - their kit doesn’t actually come with a Lascannon they just get one for legacy reasons

[tired cairn]

There are some faqs that change a bit

[floral herald]

Lascannons are just good because you need S12 shooting to handle tanks

[thin ibex]

its how it is for tac squads too, sure they have a selection of options, but the default choice is just lascannons

[floral herald]

(And CSM mulch infantry by default in melee)

[tired cairn]

Apparently the Swarmlord doesn't get Lord of Deceit, but maybe that isn't a new change 😦

[thin ibex]

devastators? All lascannons, maybe grav cannons for the exact same reason

[floral herald]

That’s also true - legionaries have some weird equipment quirks which make MSU really strong

[jaunty dawn]

not sure what the lord of deceit thing is about

[thin ibex]

The only reason intercessors dont take lascannons is cause they cant

and gw has been very deliberate in not giving us a primaris lascannon team

[floral herald]

The 5 man teams get 2 power fists, a spec/heavy weapon, and a couple of sacrifices

[jaunty dawn]

eliminators are little a lascannon team

[floral herald]

Going to 10 gives you 4 more sacrifices and 1 more spec/heavy weapon so it’s front loaded

[tired cairn]

Swarmlord only affects strats that target an opponents unit in an AoE. LoD affects all strats in an AoE

[thin ibex]

classic legion team was two heavy chain weapons, a plasma pistol, and a lascannon right?

[floral herald]

Making the 10 mane cheaper is kinda just rational

[jaunty dawn]

and a land raider might as well be a lascannon team

[floral herald]

And sometimes a balefire tome

[tired cairn]

Oh interesting. I guess this is because the box is 10 people?

[upper bluff]

Lol 5 man rubrics went up in points

[floral herald]

Honestly it’s because of the kill team kit

[thin ibex]

its something thats rational to the rules but i find tiresome, in that theres very little reason, at most times, to take anything but the highest strength, highest AP weapon option on any unit that can take em

[tired cairn]

Instead of the 10 man being 2xboxes

[jaunty dawn]

lord of deceit is opponent only too

[spice flicker]

The 3rd gaunts ghost book Necropolis is one of my favorite gaunt books

[floral herald]

The Balefire Tome, second power fist, and Chaincannon are all options because of it

[tired cairn]

Oh huh

Well, now I need to figure out why malign presence isn't just replaced by LoD

[floral herald]

And you can’t double up on them so it makes MSU really strong

[jaunty dawn]

seems like lord of deceit is basically just going from a dataslate change to an errata

or like

[floral herald]

Now, clearly what GW should do is give a third power fist if you go 10 man :p

[tired cairn]

That's good. Because it was silly they didn't update the datasheets

[jaunty dawn]

the precedence thing is actually just saying

you don't get lord of deceit AND legally distinct lord of deceit

[thin ibex]

like... i want accursed weapons, flamers, chaincannons, autocannons, etc to have compelling reasons to be taken instead of it being like.... automatically an off pick for flavor

[tired cairn]

Oh I see:

You have to have swarmy as your Warlord to get LoD

[jaunty dawn]

ohh

[tired cairn]

Which seems kind of weird but it basically doesn't matter who your Warlord is in 10th lol

[thin ibex]

i have the same gripe on like sergeant special weapons on sm squads a bit. "Is a power fist an option? Ok take that, ignore everything else. Thunder hammer is a solid maybe"

[tired cairn]

I mean, the issue there is not balancing the choices

[thin ibex]

i like power swords from time to time, or chainswords

oh i agree, I'm just whinging

[tired cairn]

I don't see GW enforcing a choice so long as the option is on the sprue

[thin ibex]

and i love me the missile launcher

but missile launcher is like bad in both roles pretty much

[tired cairn]

Though I do wish they would balance in stats over adding equipment points back I think

[jaunty dawn]

I mean they didn't even do it to make the combat patrol make sense so

[floral herald]

It’s always gonna be like that unless GW brings back wargear costs

[jaunty dawn]

kinda disagree

[tired cairn]

Eh, I think in some cases they could pull it off

Though sometimes it makes more sense just to collapse the option

I actually like that Tyranid melee options are all collapsed so it doesn't matter what you put on the model

[floral herald]

When all wargear is priced into base costs you gotta take all the strongest (usually most expensive) options or you’re leaving points on the table basically

[thin ibex]

a thing i think often about is like wolf guard in 8th and 9th; where it was like "Look at all of these options. Anyway they're all fake except for thunder hammers and either combi weapons or storm shields lol"

[jaunty dawn]

I mean that just goes back to the problem is that there's a strongest option

[floral herald]

Instead of “does my Devastator Sergeant need a 25 point power fist?”

[thin ibex]

when my own inclination is that every wolf guard squad member has their own personal fav

[jaunty dawn]

and that's been the case 90% of the time when points were a thing too

[thin ibex]

yeah i think people just factored in cost for taking whatever the best thing is on a model most of the time

[jaunty dawn]

and overall I'd rather it be optimal to actually use the options in the kit to never using any options ever

[thin ibex]

there was an unspoken obligation that you take the thunder hammer or whatever

i think the actual weapon options are often time balanced against each other for role; its just that the other roles arent as important as tank busting

[tired cairn]

Like, the tyrranofex is neat because people take both the flamer and the antitank gun despite them being costed the same. Ideally they would also make the other option about as viable

[thin ibex]

or tank threat

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[floral herald]

Cause there kinda is - the cost of the 30 pt Thammer is amortized into the cost of the squad now

[jaunty dawn]

if msu legionaries are the most efficient way to spam lascannons, it doesn't matter if they make the squad cost 30 more points

[thin ibex]

like considered in a vaccuum, the chainsword gets you volume, the power sword gets you some strength and ap, the power fist gets you strength and multi damage; and multidamage is so important that those other virtues are eh

[jaunty dawn]

until it gets to the point it's no longer true that it's efficient, and now whoops you're an idiot for taking a heavy weapon

[floral herald]

They’re not they’re just a good way to get damage on monsters and tanks from squads which mostly do other stuff

[jaunty dawn]

like

[thin ibex]

i more meant in the past, like in 8th and 9th when options for cost were still a thing; you pretty much still took the thunder hammer

[jaunty dawn]

balance just sucks

and has always sucked

[floral herald]

You give up a chainsword for the ability to maybe knock 9 wounds off something scary before a charge

[thin ibex]

ironically something i appreciate about the video games is that lieutenant/captain titus has a love affair with chainswords, because they work well

[floral herald]

Legionaries are a melee unit which can randomly take a pocket lascannon basically

[tired cairn]

Sometimes the difference between Sergeant weapons is slight and it makes more sense to collapse them into "Sergeant weapon" (which is what they did for Skitarii)

[thin ibex]

something i like about 10th is how they made melta guns not as much the default option for units that can't bring a lascannon

its still strongly incentivized for ap and multi damage

[floral herald]

Fwiw this wasn’t a thing back in like 5e where power fists actually had a substantial downside (fight at Initiative 1)

[tired cairn]

Now they are usually a bit less accurate

[floral herald]

Yeah but that’s fake

As a downside

[tired cairn]

Haha

[thin ibex]

these days power fists are exactly as accurate, its thunder hammers that are inaccurate

in that power fists also hit on 3's

[floral herald]

Cause the problem with fighting at I1 is that you probably lost all character duels

[thin ibex]

was marneus calgar just not a duelist back then?

[jaunty dawn]

well or you took artificer armour lol

[floral herald]

So it was basically making your unit leader into an antitank specialist in melee

[floral herald]

This didn’t help in 5e haha

[thin ibex]

power fists, once upon a time imperial onager gauntlets xD

[floral herald]

Since all power weapons were AP2

[jaunty dawn]

oh right

[thin ibex]

quesiton, can i use corax white to paint highlights or to mix a color brighter? or is it being a Base instead of Layer make that a bad idea

[jaunty dawn]

forgot that was 6e

you can yeah

[tired cairn]

You totally can

[jaunty dawn]

it being a base will make it slightly less appropriate for glazing

[thin ibex]

ok cool, i was having trouble finding white scar

[jaunty dawn]

but conversly it'll provide better coverage

[thin ibex]

and i realized my tau need some marginal edge highlighting

to pop

cause im doing silver armor

i feel like white helps sell the look

[jaunty dawn]

and can provide better coverage for less pigmented paints

yeah so you'll want to mix it

[desert jay]

Leaving money on the table, I say. (Also a dedicated lascannon team could be costed specifically as such)

[tired cairn]

Hmm, I wouldn't normally use white to highlight silver

[jaunty dawn]

didn't uh

missile boys basically dissapear

when they got nerfed

[thin ibex]

my gameplan was to use the white to brighten the runefang silver i was using as my primary

an then use that to edge highlight

[floral herald]

Yes but they got a cost increase and big nerfs to indirect across the board

[desert jay]

The desolation squad? Ye more or less

[thin ibex]

i feel like a lascannon team would have to be so monstrously expensive to be DoA

otherwise they'd be a default "im bringing 3 max size squads of these"

[jaunty dawn]

probably in this meta

[tired cairn]

Is that already the brightest silver?

[jaunty dawn]

like eradicators used to haha

[thin ibex]

i can't tell if mithril silver is brighter

is that what you'd suggest as an alt?

[desert jay]

You can already bring 5 lascannons in devastators, I'm pretty sure

[tired cairn]

It might be ok as an edge highlight, but the lack of metallicness might look odd

[ebon forge]

yes

[thin ibex]

the thing about metal is that on places of direct reflection you wont see metalic-ness no?

the highlights, more so than most places, would be bright white

[desert jay]

Ah nope, only 4 of them

[tired cairn]

You could check out other companies silvers. Or use metallic medium

[thin ibex]

devs are just super fragile, they end up being super high priority targets

[tired cairn]

But you could try the white and see how it looks

[jaunty dawn]

if you have the paints it's probably best just to try it

[thin ibex]

the main thing is i have no white

[tired cairn]

Pretty easy to paint over the edge highlight if it doesn't

[thin ibex]

so i was gonna go pick one up

aaaaalso considering just picking up a paint set to just populate my paint selection a bit better

[jaunty dawn]

I mean primaris devastators wouldn't be any tougher unless they were gravis

[tired cairn]

I remember hating the GW whites. But I haven't tried their base white

I like vallejos

[thin ibex]

ok complete aside, but gravis las troopers would be sick

as a look

probably not on the board

[ebon forge]

Found this interesting, how they felt the need to say out loud in the RPG book that "WE DON'T ENDORSE THIS"

[untold swallow]

We need more gravis characters tbh

[jaunty dawn]

that's kinda funny

[untold swallow]

Gimme a gravis librarian gw!!!

[jaunty dawn]

cause there's women knights in the new foot knights kit haha

[ebon forge]

Guess Bretonnia got better

[tired cairn]

Maybe the "pretend to be men" requirement is very generous

[jaunty dawn]

or worse, with old world being set in the past relative to warhammer fantasy's typical setting

[desert jay]

I do appreciate the tongue-in-cheek-ness of having to say they don't endorse it

[ebon forge]

I can imagine "Wait, EVERYONE here is a woman?!" "y-yeah" "Fuck it, lift the rule"

[desert jay]

But I also appreciate some Sweet Polly Olivering, so...

[jaunty dawn]

orite bro? yeah this is just my man hat

[untold swallow]

Monstrous Regiment moment

[desert jay]

Monstr--

[jaunty dawn]

wear it cause I'm a man innit

[untold swallow]

HA

[thin ibex]

question, what's a citadel dry paint?

[uneven ember]

||Monstrous Regiment (2003)||

[floral herald]

Just make a primaris las-unit with weaker las-carronades or something equally Cawly sounding and a few true Lascannons

[jaunty dawn]

heavily pigmented paint for drybrushing

like

[uneven ember]

dammit scooped

[jaunty dawn]

basically a big jelly blob

[thin ibex]

oh specific for dry brushing

ok

interesting

as an amateur should i even be looking at those

[jaunty dawn]

uh

no reason not to

[thin ibex]

las-talons come to mind

[ebon forge]

Discword is so good

[jaunty dawn]

drybrushing can be pretty accessible tbh

[thin ibex]

yeah i dry brush now, just with regular paints

[jaunty dawn]

I mean again

mini lascannon squad already exists

[thin ibex]

true true, though i prefer to take them as snipers your point is valid

[uneven ember]

Yeah this is kind of an interesting space in RPG setting design, I think
Where you want social restrictions to be minimal so you can play whatever kind of character you want vs the question of what if the thing you want is a character restricted by or pushing up against social restrictions
Thirsty Sword Lesbiens vs Dungeon Bitches

[desert jay]

Brain just imagined "only men are allowed here, any women found in our ranks will be given remedial courses in breast-binding and boyish haircuts and manly talking"

[floral herald]

Drybrushing is like the easiest technique in terms of difficulty in execution vs aesthetic payoff

[jaunty dawn]

tsl doesn't really assume homophobia doesn't exist

[floral herald]

Shit looks good as hell and you can basically fidget the brush across the model to get good effect

[jaunty dawn]

just have you have a community that rejects it

a lot of the settings deal with it to varying degrees of gravity and also there's a whole playbook about unlearning homophobia or other

[uneven ember]

LET'S get DOWN to BUSINESS...

[thin ibex]

yeah my beginner ass's process is "base coat, layer, wash, drybrush, detail" Maybe spot revisit layer in some places

and im slow with it as is

but thats just how it be

[jaunty dawn]

dry paints just waste less paint cause they start out dryer

so less needs to come off before applying

[thin ibex]

im gonna pick up a pot of necron compound to see if it looks good with my set up

might be too dark tho

but back to las units, grav equipped with lastalons might be fun, a str 10 they still dont punch land raiders

which is hte same problem the valiant has

but most units arent T12

[cosmic tulip]

Hmm

I still haven’t used nuln oil

I’ve been painting with base coats and color over metallics for 5 years..

[thin ibex]

i hear agrax earthshade is the better wash, but i have nuln oil so thats what i use

[floral herald]

Earthshade normally, nuln pop when you want something to look Grimy imo

[thin ibex]

im usually using the wash before my drybrush so i dont usually get grimy

[jaunty dawn]

rest in peace nuln oil gloss :((

[thin ibex]

should i be washing after?

[pastel rampart]

Nuln/AP Dark Tone is my go-to for dirty dark metal for things like guns and weapons.

[uneven ember]

"So I covered the whole mini in Devlan Mud, as was the style at the time."

[pastel rampart]

though I've been doing more and more oil washes which is better on an economic scale (you can make SO MUCH) and also can tint underlying colors and smooth the transition out with hardly any effort.

[jaunty dawn]

I need to get into oils

and practice airbrushing more

and-

oh wait hey slimnoid I came up with a base recipe for my van saar lemme show you

[tired cairn]

I am scared of oil washes (because oil paints use spooky chemicals)

[pastel rampart]

They don't interact with acrylic paints and mineral spirits is like, Fine™️ (just don't huff it)

I use Mona Lisa odorless spirits.

The best thing about oil washes is that if you don't like it, it's real easy to just wipe it off after.

Whereas a normal wash is more permanent.

[untold swallow]

Man

I'm sad Kill Team Cassius is Legends

They seem rly cool

And like

Fulfill my fantasy of 'squad of individual characters'

[thin ibex]

kt cassius is witch?

also al ot of kt's have teams of effectively individuals thanks to all the unique specialists

[jaunty dawn]

the one with everyone named

and like

[thin ibex]

like you just name your characters yourself

[jaunty dawn]

every option including a chaplainas the leader

[thin ibex]

like all my farstalkers are named

[jaunty dawn]

and you can't take bikes n shit in vets anymore either

[thin ibex]

and im gonna name my pathfinders

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/hou_jae04/status/1534574437001236480

[jaunty dawn]

does anyone ever draw male tech priests

[untold swallow]

the guys penny just posted

[jaunty dawn]

like

idk

abs priest

chadpriest

I mean even twink priest would be fine

@pastel rampart

they drop pigment around but worth

[pastel rampart]

Hell yeah

[jaunty dawn]

turns out the best way to make stuff look ashy and dusty is to use dust xP

[pastel rampart]

Haha, yeeaaah.

[desert jay]

Yes, unless you're asking about sexy male tech-priests

[pastel rampart]

I don't use dry pigments nearly as much as I probably should.

[jaunty dawn]

I'm not like

completely saying sexy

really

but its just like

it feels like there's 'woman with tentacles' and 'agender via old man' and it's kinda meh. to me. I mean it's fine that people have their fun ofc

[tired cairn]

Make tech-priests are not allowed to be sexy

Female tech-priests need to compensate on looking feminine for some reason

[jaunty dawn]

peak

[cosmic tulip]

I love the speaker thingy

[tired cairn]

(kudos for Darktide and Mechanicus for not doing that)

[upper canopy]

In which case someone used to but not anymore

[jaunty dawn]

I mean i like subdomina too but also shes's a senior skitarii so being more humanoid makes sense too

[cosmic tulip]

I also love the idea of combining peak human physique/the asthetic with machinery

Like perfectly carved doll joints or a mannequin

Exemplify the individuality of humanity in a spectrum from picturesque to GIANT BRICK

[desert jay]

Yeah, he stopped drawing 40k stuff when he got tired of being harassed by chuds 😔

[jaunty dawn]

and like i wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if like, it wasn't a case where female automatically has the subtext of dropping the dehumanising vibes of admech

[untold swallow]

Question

Is Hadron sexy?

By these standards?

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

[uneven ember]

there's that great series of comics with an old dude tech priest and his young apprentice/adoptive daughter?
there's one where she learns that he kept her organic arms in a jar, for sentimental reasons

[cosmic tulip]

She makes my guns better

[tired cairn]

Oh, I forgot the subsonina had the 40k breast plates lmao

[desert jay]

Also in "definitely female, nowhere near a pinup babe" I really dig Khepra

[jaunty dawn]

I don't think so

[untold swallow]

This sounds like a book series

That I have read

[jaunty dawn]

hadron looks pretty typical for that rank of priest

[cosmic tulip]

KEPHRA

[untold swallow]

Man

[jaunty dawn]

I like

[untold swallow]

Khepra

[cosmic tulip]

Also

I love Koriel Zeth

[untold swallow]

Why did they boobplatify you

[jaunty dawn]

I wish skitarii and cult got to have full lists so we could get proper rank setups for ppl like subdomina

[cosmic tulip]

😭 I like the unusual dichotomy of individuals and the mechanicus being so varied

[jaunty dawn]

I'm not against the art itself really

there's just a huge double standard going

[cosmic tulip]

Like forges of mars mentions there’s Biologis that just remake their human form entirely with artificial skin and stuff

[tired cairn]

I forgot she had them because they are particularly unsexualized boob plates

[jaunty dawn]

40k acts like it begrudginly has to have boob plates

like there's some contract with a demon forcing them to

[cosmic tulip]

I don’t mind it? It’s kinda just.. there.

[jaunty dawn]

it's not about individual instances it's about the context and precedent

[cosmic tulip]

That’s true

[thin ibex]

ive always had beef with boob plate

[jaunty dawn]

something can look cool af and still come about largely because of a misogynistic culture

[thin ibex]

it doesn't exist except to draw attention to breasts

[desert jay]

Well, there are some individual instances that are egregious

But also the general trend is tiring, ye

[thin ibex]

theres no practical reason for boob plate to exist

[desert jay]

At least female guard models don't have boob carapace

[tired cairn]

Yeah, it was a bit stereotypical to have the subdomina be a woman and like that. Though at least the other women weren't and the main guy also showed Humanity (when it was useful)

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[cosmic tulip]

It’s like the double standard on tumblr for people hating that people fangirl over space marines

[bright dove]

Maybe they wanted their gender visible in some fashion? That can matter, even when the flesh is weak.

[jaunty dawn]

I really like the stormcast boob shelf

[cosmic tulip]

But act the same to female characters in Warhammer

[thin ibex]

artistically its specifically to draw attention to and accentuate a character who has prominent breasts, thats it

[jaunty dawn]

especially cause like, it's directly alongside peck armour

[cosmic tulip]

I do like the Stormcast stuff it’s cool

[jaunty dawn]

and both have hella abs

[untold swallow]

idk if you give boob plates to a character in a faction that turns themselves into robots specifically because they hate their flesh

You are sus imo

[cosmic tulip]

It shows they’re handcrafted, apex of sigmar’s creation vibe

[untold swallow]

Or begrudgingly following sus standards made in the 80s and 90s

[jaunty dawn]

I imagine for subdomina she's inspired by the very common greyfax/skitarii kitbashes

[cosmic tulip]

Idk like.. techpriests are also individuals the admech is weird

[tired cairn]

Maybe they like all the extra space for equipment

[cosmic tulip]

I don’t want to come off as a misogynist

[jaunty dawn]

but then it's like the whole deal of why greyfax looks Like That as well

[thin ibex]

something somethign the flesh is weak, the gender is strong? but also boobs dont have to be gendered or whatever

[cosmic tulip]

I just don’t mind something a lot of people hate

[untold swallow]

You are not gonna convince me the boob plate has a good in lore copout lmao

Just

[cosmic tulip]

I hope I’m not coming off as a misogynist I apologize

[untold swallow]

not gonna happen

Oh no, nobody here is

[thin ibex]

i can see it being a kitbash copout

[tired cairn]

Oh it definitely doesn't lol

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah it’s just individual preference

[desert jay]

If you'd like bad in lore copouts I can provide

[jaunty dawn]

you can like something without having to deny the wider implications

like

[cosmic tulip]

I like the greyfax skitarii marshal kitbash I saw an amazing one that used a ranger face and greyfax hat and torso

[jaunty dawn]

I like a lot of these designs

[untold swallow]

Tyrith is peak fem character design that cleaves to the standards of her faction

Fight me

[untold swallow]

I'm familiar with them lol

[uneven ember]

"The techpriest got silicon breast implants." "You mean silicone." "No I don't."

[untold swallow]

They're some of the same lore copouts people use for 'no fem!marines'

[tired cairn]

There is that pinup model company that has a female tech-priest. And a variant of it is with her tits out (see first sentence). I was really disappointed that they didn't have a variant where it's with her tits out, but her tits are plasma cannons

[desert jay]

Oh I was gonna reference that one anime screenshot that became a meme

[thin ibex]

i feel like... for example, some people think that fem space marines require boob plates and performative "female" sex characteristics, which they really dont

[runic swallow]

I will say I do kinda love the whole SoB “it’s a knowing misinterpretation of law that they’re doing a rules lawyer workaround” since that’s very Byzantine/Catholic coded

[jaunty dawn]

fem space marines just need a pack of like 10 butch af heads

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah I love the religious femenine aspect

[floral herald]

Not by these standards yes

[cosmic tulip]

It makes their raw insane zealotry so cool

[tired cairn]

Though more recent SoB models dropped the boob plate right?

[bright dove]

Like, when you think about it, mechanics are just extreme body modders. Sometimes they want to look like Cawl, sometimes they want boob plate

[floral herald]

No no those are radomes

[thin ibex]

i do want space marines to come back to like gnarly grogly heads

[untold swallow]

I mean I won't deny Hadron makes me

Some kinda way

[thin ibex]

instead of handsome guys

[bright dove]

*Mechanicus

[jaunty dawn]

nah sob are still pretty booby

although to an extent it's like again if we get more models like ball gag blood angel it'd be nice

[runic swallow]

Give me the fucked up scrungly marines, only Blood Angels should get the pretty head only sprues

[cosmic tulip]

“Good varlet!” 🥺

“I anticipate you will return—bring me your holy tools.”

[jaunty dawn]

I love ball gag blood angel

[tired cairn]

My memory is bad lol

[desert jay]

The big recent improvement was the new repentia

[untold swallow]

idk I don't necessarily feel like Sisters need boob plate to read as fem

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah repentia are great

[untold swallow]

Good example, the repentia lmao

[jaunty dawn]

they're just wearing underwear

[desert jay]

Where they went from "bandages and scrolls" to the bodysuits

[bright dove]

Early on models kinda did

[jaunty dawn]

and some of them still have massive scrolls

[desert jay]

Okay yes, bodysuits and also scrolls

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah its like

[untold swallow]

My space wolf librarian has an Immortan Joe style faceplate augmetic she put the teeth of a fenrisian wolf into

[desert jay]

But not dressed in scrolls as Frazetta-wear

Something something purity seals

[untold swallow]

Well it's 2024 and models aren't pewter anymore, we have the technology xD

[jaunty dawn]

I think overall 40k taking inspiration from fetish wear can be pretty cool, subversive, suitable to setting etc. that's a lot of where it gets it start. excising that from all but The Girl Faction is bad though

[runic swallow]

On the one hand the models are a lot better but on the other I understand why they were like that from a “looking at some wild religious traditions” way. I think if they’d made it so that it was a mix of disgraced male and female echlesiarchy people who were decked out the same it’d have been a bit better?

[jaunty dawn]

but you know whoever designed ball gag blood angel is fighting the good fight

[untold swallow]

Don't forget the only other rep of that being the Rape & Murder Elves

[uneven ember]

RETVRN specifically to leather daddy custodes

[tired cairn]

lmao

[jaunty dawn]

and also like, having more girls that aren't fetish

like guardslady

[untold swallow]

Tyrith needs a model tbh

[desert jay]

And latex-clad assassins (so they can be hosed down after a mission)

[untold swallow]

I want her and Atlacoya to have a paired leader unit

Kinda like Calgar and his victrix

[jaunty dawn]

I mean the current custodes design is kinda meh so a clean start wouldn't go amiss xP

[uneven ember]

what's that one ork mini people were calling "Grom of Finland"?

[jaunty dawn]

the fact this came out current year

smh

[desert jay]

Oh I fucking love that Ursula Creed is an older lady that doesn't look MILFy

[jaunty dawn]

she's trunchbull in 40k

which is perfect

[untold swallow]

bro/sis is as wide as they are tall

Jesus Christ

[runic swallow]

I feel like they should make at least one character model custodes that is the old “only helmet and loincloth” look

[uneven ember]

https://x.com/JordanRasko/status/1424949164329238529

Jordan Raskopoulos (@JordanRasko) on X

Looking at 40k minis with @daveharmon

Dave - why is there an Ork leather daddy?
Me - that's Grom of Finland
Dave - I think that I am not gay enough to get that reference.

Twitter · Aug 10, 2021, 4:22 AM

[junior robin]

got my magos macrotek now and for some reason did they decide to make one servo arm into 3 bits, 2 of which are the smallest warhammer parts I have seen and both are mounted between arm and body

[runic swallow]

Okay yeah I see it

[cosmic tulip]

I do admit I.. haven’t been exposed to a lot of the discourse around bad design or have as much an opinion on oversexualized stuff in media

[untold swallow]

knowing what that references for a weird ass reason

[cosmic tulip]

I do notice it and call it out

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/ups-oops-gif-25712345

[runic swallow]

The exaggerated ork muscles help sell it

[desert jay]

Honestly the biggest issue is that the shoulders make it look way too wide

[cosmic tulip]

I just am kinda ambivalent on a lot of it

[desert jay]

The rest of the model looks fine

[untold swallow]

Actually, launching off of this

A lot of people probably already know this, but

[runic swallow]

Either thinner shoulders or make it a bit taller

[untold swallow]

Judas Priest is the metal group who popularized the leather look in the US

Which their frontman got from the European gay leather BDSM scene

Because

He was in that scene XD

[runic swallow]

Yeah that tracks

[jaunty dawn]

yeeee

[uneven ember]

yeah had not heard that but it makes perfect sense.

[runic swallow]

Also, for those who don’t know Tom of Finland was a very influential, very horny gay pinup artist

[untold swallow]

Who also took influence from the european bdsm leather scene

specifically the biker part of that scene

Hence

That model getting called Grom of Finland

Also the level of muscle

Tom drew almost exclusively extremely muscular people lmao

[runic swallow]

Oh I’d though there was some back and forth there, like he was part of why the leather biker thing got so big

[untold swallow]

Also his old house is a museum in my neighborhood

[desert jay]

Okay but where's "Grom" from? Just an orky name?

[runic swallow]

I’m not a big expert of Tom of Finland, I just have heard a good bit about him in tattoo and pinup history

[untold swallow]

I mean there was a bit, but the reason he was where I live, about as far as you can get from Europe on the west coast of the US

[runic swallow]

Yeah

[untold swallow]

was fleeing Europe cuz he was gay

[uneven ember]

Orky name that scans the same as "Tom"

[desert jay]

You can google Tom of Finland and see enough of his art to get a pretty good vibe, but also warning most of it is varying levels of risque

[untold swallow]

Okay I was wrong he went to America for a different reason

[runic swallow]

So many ||dick bulges||. So many.

[spice flicker]

Any Enhancements worth taking on a knight abominant?

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/TheNoobPainter/status/1846548148036219294

[thin ibex]

Cursed

[jaunty dawn]

need to get a harridan one of these days

[thin ibex]

i forget, its actually really dangerous to be below a hierophant right?

[jaunty dawn]

they had like

[thin ibex]

cause its got like loads of deadly tentacles hanging down like jellyfish?

[jaunty dawn]

lash whips

yeah

[unreal cosmos]

That's what skitarii are for apparently

[unreal cosmos]

If you're bold enough that's just any Astartes head (not giving GW a free pass I just like taking their lantern-jawed buzz cut randos and going "hmmm... she/her")

[thin ibex]

i do often think that a space marine, regardless of gender, would be a scarred, tubed, cybernetically scrunged up individual; and so you likely wouldn't be able to tell at a glance

[cosmic tulip]

Yippee!

[thin ibex]

but thats just my beef with the current handsome marines dealio

[jaunty dawn]

i did this for my phobos lieutenant cause I liked the half mask haha

[unreal cosmos]

The half masks are perfect for if lol

[upper canopy]

The half masks are my mortal enemy

[unreal cosmos]

I gave my Infernus Sgt blue hair and pronouns, should get a picture once I polish off the colors

[upper canopy]

It is somehow WORSE than just not wearing a helmet!!!
You're protecting the part of the head you don't need to protect and making your brain even more of a target!!!!

[unreal cosmos]

Looks cool tho

(blows a vape cloud at you)

[upper canopy]

inhales the entire vape cloud in one big suck and does not exhale for the next hour.

[thin ibex]

i guess one benefit is retaining squad internal vox

[unreal cosmos]

Also I'm gonna be real, I think the jaw does in fact need protecting and if someone was gonna shoot your head anyway making the top half naked doesn't make a ton of difference

I always got the impression they were mostly for respirator/filtration purposes

[upper canopy]

A marine can definitely survive without a jaw longer than a brain

[thin ibex]

also having access to filtration would be another

to be fair, the crown of the skull is strongest, and a space marines can take a bullet to the face and be fine/evade a fair amount of fire

[unreal cosmos]

I earnestly don't get how you connect the dots from "1/2 of my skull is now visible" to "it's easier for snipers to aim for"

[upper canopy]

Because Marines are all bald

[unreal cosmos]

I just don't think it's worse than no helmet even disregarding rule of cool

I don't buy the logic

[upper canopy]

Big Chrome Dome gives +10 to all ballistic skill tests to nail that noggin

[thin ibex]

its about the same as no helmet; and for an infiltration team it also ensures that your don't create a plume when you exhale (depending on ambient temperature)

[unreal cosmos]

Oh that's a good point

For my Infernus and Eradicator leaders I assumed it was to get the "bare-headed sarge" look but accounting for the fumes their guns make

[thin ibex]

it does make a bit more sense for space wolves, who's senses are enhanced beyond what their helmets provide

though it covers their nose

which is no good

for scenting the enemy

[upper canopy]

in the first deathwatch game I was in our space wolf tried to go without a helmet and kept getting hit by krak grenades to the head

like the GM wasn't even aiming for it

it just kept happening

[unreal cosmos]

Well that's just comedy

[thin ibex]

thems the breaks in the life of a space wolf

they could probably smell the krak grenade coming at least

[upper canopy]

Also very funny helmet bit

Our Iron Hands Tech Marine got punched in the face by a vampire so hard his beakie helmet got bent

[hard whale]

It's important to put a muzzle on your space marine, gives you more leash control and keeps them from barking at heretics

[thin ibex]

"Smells like im about to get hit by a... thats a krak grenade"

[unreal cosmos]

And we're back to the fetish gear

[thin ibex]

space marine ball gag masks?

[unreal cosmos]

So far there's only the one

[upper canopy]

if every other imperial faction gets fetish gear so should the Space Marines

Death Company marines should be naked

[unreal cosmos]

Every model in Warhammer 40k has an in-lore reason to be wearing a chastity cage

[thin ibex]

the venerated chapter of space marines, the Marines Shibari

[upper canopy]

cocks OUT for sanguinius

[untold swallow]

Death Company Blood Angel getting their jaw shattered moment

[unreal cosmos]

You can't see them but they're there, in lore

[untold swallow]

It just confirms whoever they're fighting is Horus

[hard whale]

I started typing that thinking about it from a "brainwashed soldier is called a lapdog" angle, like Winter Soldier / Armored Core. Realised it was kinky, pressed enter anyway

[unreal cosmos]

If AC6 fans taught me anything it's that super-soldiers are pup play

[thin ibex]

i mean, lapdogs arent kinky by themselves

[unreal cosmos]

Neither are whips but yknow

[untold swallow]

I forget, did Sanguinius have the blood thirst?

[thin ibex]

im not certain, but im reasonably sure that actual dogs that like to sit on laps pre exist the kink about it

[hard whale]

no, but taking a grown adult for a walk on a leash is

[unreal cosmos]

These cave paintings I just found say otherwise

[thin ibex]

now i dont know if the term dogs of war pre exist the kink

[upper canopy]

"grug doing commissions"

"gog want grug make the titty bigger"

[untold swallow]

What preface would be best for a salamander successor called the 'insert word' Ogres?

Who are reckless, boisterous as all hell

and love punching shit

[floral herald]

I feel like this is way less important when you’re wearing a nuclear reactor on your back haha

[unreal cosmos]

Iron? Red?

[untold swallow]

Red Ogres could be fun

[hard whale]

Grey Ogres. They've been powercrept

[junior robin]

the emperor's ogres

[thin ibex]

hey i dont make the rules, phobos armor is anonymously quiet

it would make sense that it has somehow better heat signatures n stuff

[floral herald]

The exhaust plume from the reactor vents is probably more visible than the exhaust plume from the lungs is my point

[thin ibex]

oh id agree if i didn't think phobos as stealth armor needs to like... not have that issue

otherwise you can just

find them anyway

if they're just quiet

[upper canopy]

Rampant Ogres

[thin ibex]

"haha stealthy phobos pattern armor made quieter servos" still lit up like a christmas tree on any thermals

[untold swallow]

warning flashing images

[thin ibex]

meanwhile alpha legion, in armor built 10000 years ago, somehow sneaking up on people in dense, urban environments

[floral herald]

I mean this is 40K they made better armor 10,000 years ago

[thin ibex]

whaaaat no, belisarius cawl's new stuff is all better wink

[floral herald]

But regardless of the amount of stealth I think the armor power pack is outputting more heat than the marine inside it even if it’s a smaller thermal signature than normal armor

[thin ibex]

is space marine stealth more a product of the environment or their skill

i feel like non power armored scouts still have arole

cause no power pack

but eliminators are clearly scouty snipers

[floral herald]

Maybe they just cut the power

Since Phobos is also just lighter

And just spin up the reactor for actual fighting

[thin ibex]

oh that might make sense

[upper canopy]

LMAO

"going into stealth mode"

https://tenor.com/view/falling-dead-void-spiraling-jumping-gif-23232789

[pastel rampart]

I think they do because Primaris are still relatively small in number, and scouts play a very useful role in both training a space marine and being a low-cost stealth option for chapters--they don't use or need specialized power armor like eliminators, just carapace armor. Admittedly a fancier form of said armor but still.

[finite compass]

Or they just forgo putting points in Stealth, and put it all in Intimidate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faL19DktUPw

[pastel rampart]

Intimidate is what Reivers are for!

They're the wetwork version of scouts.

[spice flicker]

Aura of terror worth taking on a knight abominant in a 750 point list alongside 2 stalkers?

[upper canopy]

can I be real

I still do not like Reivers

I can be sold on many Primaris units but Reivers are just

So Lame

[finite compass]

Doofy-looking?

[upper canopy]

Doofy looking and also like

thematically weird?

You have an entire corps of your 1000 limited guys that are just "These other guys but scaaaaaaaaary"

[thin ibex]

i mentally imagine them the kind o squad you drop into th rear of a line and forget about them while they go around causing mayhem on enemy supply lines

i figure the skull mask is mostly to capitalize on the angels o death stuff

[finite compass]

I mean there was already a squad like that.

They were called Scouts

[thin ibex]

scouts in most chapters were trainees, reivers are not

we do have wolf scouts though

[finite compass]

They were trainees, but that was their job

[thin ibex]

yeah but thats not really a strong argument; scouts as trainess will be less reliable than fully trained and capable soldiers

you generally want a non-trainee for a task if given the option

[finite compass]

Nobody ever accused Space Marine organizational structure of being efficient

[pastel rampart]

I think of Reivers as what you send to a high-profile target that you couldn't otherwise send a normal squad to, because you absolutely need to fuck them up yesterday.

[thin ibex]

sure, but also primaris organizatio nabsolutely did some reform to standard space marine organizational structure

reflected in the fact that hellblasters exist, intercessors dont come with heavy weapons, there are dedicated assault infantry, etc etc etc

they're clearly not organized exactly like old space marine org

[finite compass]

If I was being uncharitable, I'd say it turned them into Eldar

Instead of an army of generalists, you now have one unit for every specific task

[thin ibex]

pretty much, ive seen the assertion that its actually making the mmore like pre/mid heresy era legions

with dedicated combat roles and loadouts

and the generalist set up was largely a modern era adaptation to attrition

Since a lot of the time, the way a chapter might work is they might deploy a single tactical squad to solve a proble in a theatre rather than showing up in force

[finite compass]

Adaptation to chapters of 1000 marines rather than entire legions

[thin ibex]

does make a bit of logical sense, seeing that Robby G gave that order and belisarius has apparently been working since back then

[finite compass]

Though oddly enough Chaos Marines, aprt from the cult troops, tend to be more generalist than loyal Space Marines, though that's definitely due to attrition

[floral herald]

It’s extremely legiony yeah

[finite compass]

Just in terms of avaiable options

[floral herald]

Also similar in terms of inferior flexibility and independence

[thin ibex]

still wish reivers could get a power weapon on the sergeant and/or a special weapon

but also they now cost 70 points, so i guess there might be reasons to take em as extremely cheap deepstrikers/infiltrators

[finite compass]

kind of a tangent, but you know what really needs a model update

Chaos bikers

[thin ibex]

with the benefit of potentially causing more battleshock, meaning they can more easily steal an obj

im curiou how they might get reimagined in a modern era

csm attack bike should be able to get a chaincannon

akira slide into a sidecar minigun

[finite compass]

I don't think CSM ever got an attack bike

[pastel rampart]

They never did, that's purely an SM thing.

[thin ibex]

but they could now!

or if they got a rerelease

[finite compass]

I know it's not actually the man h imself, but

DOOOOOOOM RIDER

Doom Rider

Na Na Na

[untold swallow]

There's this artist my partner showed me yesterday who makes a lot of 40k fanart

And he does this extremely funny thing where none of his chaplains have a crozius

[thin ibex]

chaos gonna get a dark souls bonewheel instead of a bike

[finite compass]

Just saying

Lore-wise

This thing exists

[untold swallow]

Okay I stand corrected

[thin ibex]

good lod how big is that

[untold swallow]

one has a Crozius

[thin ibex]

lord*

[jaunty dawn]

I think chaos bikes just need to keep and have modelled combi weapon

[finite compass]

And it's also the size of a Warhound

[untold swallow]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Zayo4w

[pastel rampart]

I was just about to link the Death Wheel, haah

[untold swallow]

This is his only chaplain piece with a crozius lmao

[thin ibex]

jesus

ive never heard of the deathwheel

how very silly and warhammer

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Death_Wheel It never actually got a model iirc

[untold swallow]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/49KOlq

[pastel rampart]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when, on Ye Olde 2000s-era GW website they had instructions on how to make one from scratch using various bitz.

[thin ibex]

dang there is NOT a lot of lore on it

[untold swallow]

Terminator Wolf Priest, no crozius XD

[finite compass]

Epic had some crazy-ass daemon engines for Chaos

[untold swallow]

Also am I the only one who thinks crozius

look a bit lame

[floral herald]

That chaplain looks like Alex jones lol

[untold swallow]

You have ruined my favorite piece of his for me lmao

Also I just love the idea that the like

reliquary bro is carrying

Is probably a normal human warrior's sword

[thin ibex]

what is the crozius actually meant to be reminiscient of in a historical context? A tessen?

[untold swallow]

It's meant to be a joke about how priests in the middle ages couldn't use edged weapons

[thin ibex]

ahh

[untold swallow]

Because drawing blood was unholy behavior

Which is why Asmodai having a sword is meant to be edgy

[soft willow]

Knight-ish sized.

[untold swallow]

but that's lost somewhat in the fact he does not need help in the edgy department

[finite compass]

See also why DnD clerics always use maces and the like

[thin ibex]

can you imagine if chaos knights got a death wheel?

[pastel rampart]

I still want a poster of that.

[untold swallow]

It's also why my chapter, whose chaplains are also the Chapter's foremost weapon masters, often pair their crozius with another weapon

Because they are the r/woosh marines

Who follow the Imperial Creed and revere Malcador in specific as a Saint

Because that's funny

And also Ashen Sigillite goes hard as the title of a saint

anyways crozius are kind of lame and look like if you taped a christmas tree topper to a broom handle

[thin ibex]

they often look like axes

they might look cooler as a morningstar or proper mace tho

[untold swallow]

I can kind of see that with the bike chaplain but

[thin ibex]

space marine with a beatstick isnt uncool

[untold swallow]

It's not sharply stylized enough imo to really sell the wings as blades

I mean it's not uncool

I love thunder hammers

Crozius are conceptually very cool

[thin ibex]

the mace as a medieval weapon is generally underpresented in teh astartes

[untold swallow]

I just find their execution

wanting

[thin ibex]

also more traditional one handed warhammers also underpresented a bit

[untold swallow]

nodsnods

[floral herald]

There’s a fair number of maces for CSM

[untold swallow]

My latest skyrim character who's a smith enchanter uses a modded one handed hammer, sidenote

[floral herald]

They’re less common for loyalists though

[untold swallow]

You wanna know what model I bet would fuck

A named character Chaplain/Ancient

[thin ibex]

named ancient cool

[untold swallow]

Okay wait I just came up with a rly cool crozius idea

more traditional mace shape

But decorated with the Chapter's version of the Creed in mind, where they revere the Emperor as the greatest psyker in the galaxy

And know that the Warp is full of nightmare monsters and shit

Biblically accurate angel crozius

[rocky shale]

Falcon and fire prism point drops oh my god

[untold swallow]

maybe the ball has a bunch of bas relief eyes with chains around it as raised striking surfaces

[thin ibex]

something im real surprised they havent dont more of with 10th ed

is things like high str low damage weapons

[floral herald]

Oh sick

[thin ibex]

or extreme AP low str stuff or what have you

[rocky shale]

Also less meaningful drops for corsair, warlock conclave, wraith knight, and MSU wraithguard/blades

[paper bluff]

Mind shaped crozius?

[tired cairn]

I think the closest you get with that is web guns that are devestating wounds but otherwise suck?

What sort of role would a high AP low str weapon have 🤔

And are there any low toughness high armor save things?

[thin ibex]

Just having a strong interaction at the end of the progression, if you look at it like hit/wound/save; you have guns that are good at hitting, wounding, and or saving. Feel like that dynamic can be played with and different stages focused and so on

It's just that generally anything with good str also comes with improved ap and damage

[tired cairn]

Yeah, I'm just thinking that overall weapons have some role for what they are good at killing

So that's one reason you see high str combined with better AP and damage

(The other is I think intuitively people expect those to all go together)

[thin ibex]

I'd find it mechanically interesting to engage more extremes on the stages I described, but would likely not be competitively compelling or convincing from a simulationist perspective

[tired cairn]

Eh, you can make up a lot of bullshit for the latter

[thin ibex]

We do have some things, like drukhari guns, that play with anti and low strength, which isn't bad

[tired cairn]

I would be worried about making a weird gun/sword and then people going "ok, but why"

(They have enough of "ok but why guns" lmao)

[thin ibex]

Lol

I also just like the idea of a gun that's extremely reliable at the cost of not doing a lot of damage, but that's not a dynamic that's effective when you are working with only 5 turns

Cause you don't have a lot of highly resilient, low wound targets running about

[tired cairn]

Yeah

[untold swallow]

mind shaped?

[paper bluff]

Like the head doesn't actually have a shape. The psyker/Chaplin makes it

[floral herald]

Sisters of battle

[tired cairn]

True

[floral herald]

Grey Knights I guess

[tired cairn]

I guess orks are high toughness low saves

[floral herald]

Basically MEQ killers

[tired cairn]

Wait, are Grey Knights not T4?

[floral herald]

No but T4 isn’t very high

[tired cairn]

Eh, I guess? It's a significant breakpoint

The scale is weird in my mind, because it's like T3 and mid-to-low-saves, T4 and decent saves, T5 and good saves, as like, the infantry categories

And then you hit vehicles that fill the rest of the range

But generally a lot of S8 weapons will be aimed at killing MEQ so will also have decent AP and D2

[floral herald]

There’s also well armored T3 (sisters, aspect warriors, incubi) and high toughness bad saves models (daemons, orks) though

[tired cairn]

True

Is there like, T10 Ap - D1 weapons? Or S6 Ap lots D1 ones?

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1154082896991244319/1296179080416333884/463602424_952703386883981_694371502662522633_n.png?ex=67115856&is=671006d6&hm=f5ed69b1e5171cf3100e6310b0e865f9253a36a8f1487dcbbdddd10895f775df&

[rocky shale]

Howling Banshees have low strength but high AP weapons

[tired cairn]

Ah, yeah that is fairly high AP for S4

[floral herald]

I think the vespid guns fit the latter

S5 AP-2 D2 is close at least

[tired cairn]

Yeah, I think it's still in the "marine killer" camp. But also decent against orks

(I was curious about S6 because then it would be aimed at those squishy-on-the-inside things)

[rocky shale]

Shuriken cannons

3A S6 AP-1 D2

As for high strength low AP, you really only get stuff like missile launchers where the low AP is to make them a worse lascannon

[tired cairn]

That's kind of lame

[rocky shale]

Since they also have a mode with blast

[tired cairn]

Which is fair I guess

[rocky shale]

There aren't many times when you need S10+ and don't also want AP

[tired cairn]

Killing orks. And maybe demons?

[bright dove]

You know, sometimes I miss vehicle facings

[floral herald]

Scatter laser is in this ballpark with S5 AP- D1

And like 5-6 shots a gun

[tired cairn]

I like the concept of vehicle facing

[tired cairn]

That is a weird profile

[rocky shale]

At that point you only need like S6 or 7 to be wounding on 3s, and actual ork vehicles do already have armor saves

[tired cairn]

Fair. I just like it when I wound on 2s lol

[rocky shale]

Wounding on 2s usually only happens when you're using seriously overkill guns

[tired cairn]

Fair. I think it's pretty common for anti-MEQ guns

Maybe not any other target

[rocky shale]

Plasma is kinda the one exception yeah

S8 is a wierd breakpoint

No good into vehicles but wounds on 2s against meq

[tired cairn]

What sort of things are T7/8?

I feel like it is a bit of a wasteland there

[rocky shale]

Light vehicles like aledari war walkers

Vehicles that rely on invuln saves like harlequins

[tired cairn]

Yay, someone already made it:

My impression wasn't totally wrong lol. Especially T8

I wasn't expecting so much T6

[spice flicker]

Heavy infantry like Terminators and custodes are t6 no?

[untold swallow]

sounds cool, but that would involve me making a unit that's a psyker chaplain that isn't a grey knight lmao

[cosmic tulip]

Something I noticed

1. Nobody’s made an updated Solar Auxilla themed Spotify playlist or Tau

I should do that

[floral herald]

https://x.com/yuriposting/status/1846598019955020170?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Kallie (@yuriposting) on X

Forever thinking about that one 40K story about the heir to a Knight family getting hooked up to their mech for the first time during their coming-of-age ceremony and knowing full well they might be about to get lobotomized in the process

Twitter · Oct 16, 2024, 5:04 PM

https://x.com/devilacroix/status/1846621499970797672?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Devi Lacroix (@DeviLacroix) on X

@yuriposting The 40K story that stays with me is the insert in the 3rd edition Necron codex, about the archeology team finding the remains of a civilization that was visited by Necrons, and became so fearful of the stars that their society moved underground and there perished.

Twitter · Oct 16, 2024, 6:37 PM

I love microfiction and short stories

[paper bluff]

The exorcists have combo chaplin/ apothecaries and space wolves is apothecaries/librarians don't they?

[thin ibex]

so i know they're bad, but whats the use case for hive guard?

(i just kinda like em)

[floral herald]

Apothecary/Chaplain for the space wolves

[thin ibex]

yeah, the wolf priest is a combination of apothecary and chaplain

[untold swallow]

The other combos work while librarian/chaplain is more controversial given part of the normal reclusiam duties is

Making sure the librarians don't become sorcerers

[floral herald]

Extremely pedantic voice it’s the Chaplaincy that does that not the Reclusiam

[untold swallow]

Jesus fucking Christ

The two are synonymous

XD

[floral herald]

No the Reclusiam is the chamber of relics and is responsible for the relics of the chapter, the training of new chaplains, and ritual pertaining to both :p

It’s a really common mix up online I think some popular piece of lore combined them or something

(Dawn of War?)

[untold swallow]

And who commands the Reclusiam

Could it be the Reclusiarch?

The second in command to the Master of Sanctity?

Who are both always Chaplains?

[floral herald]

Yeah, the Chaplaincy has wider responsibilities than the Reclusiam

I do wish we had more Reclusiarch models though, glancing at them

They’re all sick but they’re all old except Grimaldus

[untold swallow]

idk I feel like the second in command to the highest chaplain being the leader of the Reclusiam and being named after it would denote that it's central to the Chaplaincy's function and that at least most of the Chaplaincy is integrated into it

[floral herald]

I’m not saying th- actually sorry I can’t continue this kind of hair splitting is too much what I think actual space marines would bicker about in the fortress monastery and I’m cracking up

“No, initiate Velemus, a Reclusiarch overseeing the spiritual purity of the Librarius does so under the auspices of the Chaplaincy, not as the Master of the Relics”

[lofty warren]

Marine bureaucracy

[floral herald]

“no, spiritual purity of any member of the chapter falls under the ritual auspices of the Reclusiam regardless of other order membership”

[floral herald]

Look they’ve gotta do something with the codex mandated 15 minutes of free time

[paper bluff]

Yeah I guess the only time a librarian/chaplin would happen is grey knights

Fun idea, a chapter who's chaplin is a perpetual

[floral herald]

Also GW should update this guy this is sick

Old named Salamanders Reclusiarch Xavier

[ebon forge]

He's smiling

[paper bluff]

All Chaplins should get a customized skull helm

Is this because I think a raven guard chaplin with a bird skull helm would be sick as hell? Yes

[pulsar cairn]

yo

if ur a child in nocturne

you could have a salamander show up in your birthday party!

could be like ur beeg brother, like actual older brother since they are allowed to spend time with family!

how cool is that?

[floral herald]

Iirc they are bespoke

And hereditary with each new chaplain adding and embellishing details as they record deeds

Same with the Crozius

[paper bluff]

40k fans do not disappoint

[tired cairn]

The shock cannon is probably the better choice right now, but man is -1 ap for an anti-vehicle gun bad

Maybe you can take advantage of their decent overwatch while they sit on a point

[wide veldt]

watching some lore videos
i have heard about the white scars for the first time and i love them

"we gave space marines hobbies and it fixed them"

[paper bluff]

Similar to that is the blood angels for a while under sanguinius

[untold swallow]

Okay I’m glad I didn’t come across as aggressive when I didn’t mean to lol

[pastel rampart]

Salamanders too, they do like their forgin'.

[uneven ember]

Black Templars 5th broke down Chaplains into Reclusiarch and Master of Sanctity

So at least in that book (which introduced Angry G) a Reclusiarch was a kind of Chaplain

[floral herald]

No you didn’t no worries

[finite compass]

One instance where the Space Wolves have drip

[ebon forge]

Abso-fucking-lutely

I have such a mixed reaction for Space Wolves
A lot of awesome drip

but them I remember everything about them is wolf and literal howling

[untold swallow]

and also coping about psykers

or getting drunk

[ebon forge]

Guirly Mann getting drunk on Space Wolve beer and them his mom being pised at him about it was hilarious tho

[untold swallow]

lol

[paper bluff]

I think about guilliman's agrarian ideal being one of the most roman things about him some timea

[thin ibex]

I feel like even in his most perfect world he wouldn't have been able to do it, his mind needs complex problems to solve

[past sphinx]

farming is pretty complex

some might even say extremely

hed save a lot of money on bale forks thats for sure

he could carry a round bale in each hand

damnit im gonna have to haul hay this year to

[bright dove]

Wouldn't super strength be nice for that?

Also, he would probably enjoy maximizing crop yields, figuring out proper rotations, each individual animal's schedule....

[past sphinx]

soil density, aeration and hyradation

local weather patterns

seasonal shifts in humidity

and all that shit changes year over year

[bright dove]

From another discord, so not sure which book

[cosmic tulip]

Based ngl

[bold halo]

background and black industries mention says to me wfrp 2e

pretty sure I remember reading that in the bretonnia splat actually

would be this book

[bright dove]

Nice

[past sphinx]

how it feels to successfully battle the force of the ruinous powers without being regressive horse worshippers

[floral herald]

I thought the Ruinous Powers followed the Bad Horse

[past sphinx]

i need to read some more angry dwarf and boyfriend adventures

[untold swallow]

He wants to be Cincinnatus so bad

[uneven ember]

the Throughbred of Sin?

[floral herald]

lol

[uneven ember]

(that's right Dr Horrible reference)

[floral herald]

I was originally referencing a real old short story about like, primitives who knew the story of the Horus Heresy and the rebellion of the Evil Horse, a son of the Sun-King from the stars

Which I think was kinda just based on the pun Horse Heresy

[upper canopy]

This is indeed one of the first pages of Knights of the Grail

[past sphinx]

doom guy noises

[upper canopy]

tiny ass gun

[past sphinx]

big ass dude

[floral herald]

What the heck is that gun

[cosmic tulip]

Mini Multi Melta

[cinder wraith]

i dont like sanguinius

[floral herald]

Oh I thought that was some kind of combi-weapon

[granite basin]

i personally believe sanguinius should look more waifish and pristine, giving him a big square jaw is technically right but i just don't like it as much idk

[finite compass]

I'm just remembering how in Hunter: the Parenting, the NotEmperor character's 'favorite son' is a horse. Named Horse.

[cosmic tulip]

It does feel off

Where’s my prettyboy

Can’t have shit in the Horus Heresy

[finite compass]

Nah

Sanguinius should look like somebody didn't water their paints

https://tenor.com/view/heretic-burger-warhammer-sanguinius-gif-18201763

[granite basin]

more fabio than anime boy which does kinda make sense contextually

however, making a character thinner and paler works more when they're vampire-coded to me. usually i find that to be a sus decision but my view of him is a distortion of what conventional attractiveness is, while still having the quality that one might consider "perfect"

[cosmic tulip]

Also everyone views the primarchs as gorgeous

[granite basin]

which would be having like, any sense of pride or hygiene which carries you far in the imperium

[cosmic tulip]

And it’s not an illusion either

[upper canopy]

are people calling this "thinner"

[cosmic tulip]

The other primarchs view sanguinius as gorgeous

I do like the models proportions

[granite basin]

no, i'm talkin about what i'd want

[cosmic tulip]

They’re good

But the chin is.. oof

[granite basin]

it's not a bad model. i'm just saying it doesn't align with a personal headcanon, which means next to nothing compared to the opinions of the actual rightsholders lol

[thin ibex]

It kind of aligns with a lot of the art though

[granite basin]

yeah. i'm not sure what the reference was they used for it. i think the comically small melta pistol is funny and that should be accurate

bc they're comically Large men

[thin ibex]

Small pistol, big man, a sign that the weapon isn't compensatory

[past sphinx]

something something greek statue joke

[thin ibex]

The Greek joke fits, but I don't think I'd credit the toy maker with thinking of that thematically

[granite basin]

i think that fits with his vibe tbh. he's the most "refined" looking so there's this artifice of elegance about him. big pistols might seem brutish and rough. he's a guy with class- he'll vaporize and bisect you with dignity

and also his boys will eat what's left of you

... but with ~Dignity~

[floral herald]

I mean, given the general shape of most of the other primarchs it kind is

[upper canopy]

This is like people calling Chip Zanuff a twink

[cosmic tulip]

(I mean)

[granite basin]

guilty gear does things to ppl's perception-

[lofty warren]

Twink discourse escapes to pilot.net

[cosmic tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/chipp-zanuff-guilty-gear-strive-guilty-gear-strive-chipp-gif-25469972

Look at this man

[floral herald]

I think that was a much easier statement to make before Chipp went into the Hyperbrolic Lifts Chamber for strive

[cosmic tulip]

If he’s not a twink he’s definitely a twunk

[floral herald]

No he's huge

[granite basin]

ALERT. ALERT.

twink discourse HAS BREACHED CONTAINMENT

[floral herald]

Dude's built like Schwarzenegger

[granite basin]

that's just a case of ur perceptions being fuckied ithink

[cosmic tulip]

Still counts as a twink ngl

He has aura

[floral herald]

Strive players will see this and say "twink"

[cosmic tulip]

The outside doesn’t matter, only your hearts true potential

the character you have chosen has limitless possibilities

[granite basin]

i'll be honest, i'll take that over the inverse

[floral herald]

Yeah could be genshin

[lofty warren]

The only kinda twink in ggs is happy chaos

[granite basin]

i wasn't going to name that but yeah.

Yeah.

[lofty warren]

Unless you are of the mindset women can be twinks

[granite basin]

gender anarchic labels

[floral herald]

Who would that add to the list??