Warhammer and Such

[lofty warren]

which is that like

when ur making stuff thats so bespoke and non-modular

for each team

it becomes really hard to do upkeep

[jaunty dawn]

I think the big difference with kill team is kt24 invalidated one book

in terms of teams that were just gone

whereas the vast majority of underworlds models have been out of print for a While

like, unless they bring them back this means literally no dwarf teams

[south axle]

Underworlds being limited runs is sad

Like all Skaven teams have been banger models but the first is OOP, 2nd is hovering and will probs be dropped soon and the third is still fairly new

[tired cairn]

I mean previous versions of Kill Team have each been totally different before 2024

[jaunty dawn]

I don't really consider anything before kt21 relevant

in this instance

[tired cairn]

Well, mostly it's relevant in that KT fans expectations would have been "no longer supported ever" lol

[jaunty dawn]

sure

I guess the thing is like

I just straight up don't see a continuity between kt18 and kt21 like that I guess

but yeah

[tired cairn]

It always fit the same game space. But fair

That was not who I was meant to reply too oops

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I think kill team has continuity in total

but kt24 is a new edition of kt21

while i'd consider kt21/24 and kt18 different games

[tired cairn]

But re: reprints. I get that selling to an existing customer base is easier than expanding the base at this point. And I get that warehouse space isn't free. But new designs and moulds are expensive, so I don't really get why they don't do more reprints

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

especially since the quality of underworlds likely means their designers are more senior too

thus more expensive

[tired cairn]

(not miniatures, but the fact that there has been insufficient stock of the Pariah Nexus mission cards for as long as it has been out is ridiculous)

[jaunty dawn]

printing is a huge bottleneck for them

[tired cairn]

It would be a bit funny if it was like "oh, making the miniatures isn't a problem, it's just the boxes"

[jaunty dawn]

which is probably a lot of the reason underworlds is changing so drastically too

[tired cairn]

But I know they have miniature factory bottlenecks too

[jaunty dawn]

they do yeah

[south axle]

GWs having issues keeping a sufficient stock of printed cards have been a thing from at least 2017

[jaunty dawn]

they're spinning up a new factory but that'll take years

[tired cairn]

I remember when the last problem with expanding their existing factory was getting the power mains upgraded lol

[cosmic tulip]

Funny note

But the 40k faction with the most nonbinary characters so far is the Tau

With 4 different guevesa

[past sphinx]

james workshop single handedly keeping the british infrastructure alive

[past sphinx]

truely fully automated luxery gay space communism

[floral herald]

I don’t think the narrative campaign one counts there - they just use they for everyone in it for some reason

[unreal cosmos]

Damn, ruined my chance to make a "blue skin and pronouns" joke

[tired cairn]

What is this narrative campaign?

[cosmic tulip]

It’s related to Volkus for kill team and on the surrounding planets

The Guevesa character is nonbinary and a psyker!

Give us tau psykers gw I demand it as the resident guevesa enjoyer

[tired cairn]

You can do it now that psychic isn't a phase GW! T'au can remain a single phase army!

[upper canopy]

The Tau take your gender when they conquer you

Super Canon

[tired cairn]

Not the most subtle of metaphors

[tardy vault]

Come join us in Age of Woke! There's an entire hero type that's nonbinary (Lord-Terminos)

(maybe)

[cosmic tulip]

Arguably my favorite lore bit of 9th was a guevesa ambassador talking to their friend who was like “your planet is extremely gendered so you need to wear this to convince them you’re still part of the imperium” and she notes personally that it’s a “curious purple robe with too many frills” and that her friend “they dislike wearing anything related to masculine clothing, opting instead for the form fitting robes of a dignitary”

[tired cairn]

I like how it has a mace mechadendrite

This does not look like a very good combat machine lol

Are the Dark Mechanicum generally against AI?

[floral herald]

https://x.com/assaultmongrel/status/1844324698425000282?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Burgah (@AssaultMongrel) on X

Vampires don't maintain undying legions anymore. Because of woke

Twitter · Oct 10, 2024, 10:30 AM

Finally found this

[tired cairn]

You'd think it'd be easier for a vampire to maintain an undying legion if it was awake though

[unreal cosmos]

Being Knight-sized probably helps

[tired cairn]

That's a pretty large mace then

[unreal cosmos]

The tendrils come down to head-knocking-off range

[tired cairn]

(I am actually having difficulty imagining that Knight size lol)

[tired cairn]

It's so spindly

[cosmic tulip]

They love the stuff

Every named darkmech character has had some sort of deal with AI every edition since 8th

[tired cairn]

Ah, ok

[floral herald]

There’s not a lot of lore on em aiui

[jaunty dawn]

I think at least some darkmech would still think it's bad

[tired cairn]

though how many regular mechanicum have deals with AI

Looking at you Cawl

[floral herald]

My general understanding is that they’re a faction of the mechanicum and maintain similar prohibitions on silica animus in general

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[upper bluff]

From my understanding the dark mech love AI

[tired cairn]

The original split wasn't doctrinal right?

[jaunty dawn]

like the admech hated ai before the emperor even showed up

[upper bluff]

Didn't they join Horus because he promised them less regulations

[floral herald]

But there’s also a lot of non-mechanicum tech-likers with chaos and various hereteks and such

[jaunty dawn]

there's definitely some darkmech for whom ai is the forbidden fruit

[tired cairn]

Do people generally file those under dark mechanicum even if they aren't technically?

[floral herald]

Depends on what you mean by people

[tired cairn]

Uh, either real life humans or in-universe lay humans

[floral herald]

I think in universe people are fairly aware of the difference between the Dark/New Mechanicum who swore loyalty to Horus 10,000 years ago vs other kinds of tech-heretics

[tired cairn]

Huh, interesting

[floral herald]

Though I think that might be an adeptus mechanicus thing

[tired cairn]

Yeah, I expect the admech to care and know

[floral herald]

I think a lot of normal imperials can’t tell the difference between any kind of red robed martian priests

[cosmic tulip]

New Darkmech character has a chaos corrupted ai as of 9th and arks of omen

The issue is that a lot of ai get corrupted by chaos

[jaunty dawn]

we don't often see the perspective of forge world citizens tbh

[cosmic tulip]

They have no good defense against it

[tired cairn]

I guess if anything it's the other way around with the laity: thinking Dark Mechanicum is just another type of heretek?

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

vashtorr?

another angle is that darkmech would probably consider chaos corrupted ai very differently

to the admech, that's just one of the dangers of ai. it's a bad thing

[cosmic tulip]

Nah a tech priest

[jaunty dawn]

to dark mech, that's a shackled ai as much as if you were using kastelan style punch cards to decide its actions

[floral herald]

Yeah if you’re dark mech controlling an AI with a daemon is probably an improvement

Remove the soulless empty logic of the silica animus by sticking a bunch of soul-stuff in it

[tired cairn]

Did they stop to consider if it was good soul stuff they were putting in there? I'm guessing no

[cosmic tulip]

I’d love to see an ai that actually makes like big gains

Probably Votann or something

[floral herald]

If you ask me all soul stuff is good

[tired cairn]

lol

I want a men of iron faction. But 40k really doesn't need more factions lol

[floral herald]

There’s rumors chaos androids are coming back

Maybe not as a faction but like a unit or kill team

[tired cairn]

But I don't want them to be chaos <whine>

[jaunty dawn]

I think votann/ironkin are technically men of iron

[tired cairn]

Also, do you think that is more or less likely than a Tyranid kill team lol

[jaunty dawn]

I think a darkmech kill team of some sort is more likely probably

[tired cairn]

They could be cool

[cosmic tulip]

RAHHH RAHH XENARITES

[floral herald]

Yeah they don’t use the name but seem pretty similar

[tired cairn]

I do appreciate the robots being treated as anyone else. But it's not the same as it being all robots (I guess I'm picky lol)

[jaunty dawn]

no that's fair

but like

I think they are literally men of iron haha

[tired cairn]

I do find it funny that the weird bubble visor thing is code for "mostly an AI"

[jaunty dawn]

necrons were basically a robot faction before the imperium found out that their leaders love drama

and canoptek are fairly diverse for an army themed around them

and have rules support

[floral herald]

I agree - I didn’t explain myself enough but I don’t think the MoI called themselves that basically

[tired cairn]

I think a neat angle for an AI faction would be for them to hit be xenocidal per se (at the very least they lost once and know they would again). But instead they are old and tired and mostly shoot first because they expect zero good faith diplomacy with anyone (this of course causes needles conflict with the tau and votaan)

[cosmic tulip]

There was a really cool lore snippet in 6th!

A named Man of Iron character joined the Tau (we don’t actually know the name)

It was a historical unit

No clue what happened to it afterwards but it was apparently shuttled off to a black site

Apparently the tau were exceedingly shaken by the revelations that humanity used to be “powerful beyond all measure”

The Votann also like Tau drone AI

think they’re like cats

[tired cairn]

I did like the Black Fortress Man of Iron who was like "beep boop I am totally a dumb robot on a mission for the Adeptus Mechanicus"

[cosmic tulip]

There’s a lot of references to Tau uncovering dark age tech and Guevesa being SHOCKED

My favorite fifth ed bit was warp engines

“Your species must be exceptionally accomplished if the Imperium has forgotten to make such technologies!”

“To be honest, honored Aun? I don’t know how it works at all.”

The raw culture shock of knowing your ancestors lived in a ruined utopia has only been mentioned a few times, but it’s fascinating

Also I went back to look for snippets and found that all my saved lore bits were deleted..

):

[bright dove]

https://youtube.com/shorts/68BPZnmCewA?si=UGl2UH8CB6wiohhq

[cosmic tulip]

My favorite was his conversation with Amallyn:

“You think I despise humanity? Not at all. I am saddened by their losses, and that I cannot share my stories to remind them what they once were. I pity their ignorance.”

(He does despise the admech for their willful ignorance, but he likes the ratlings and rogue trader he meets in the next part of the trilogy)

[jaunty dawn]

ur-025 is not immune to found family

[bright dove]

You'd have to be a heartless bastard to not like Ratlings.

[cosmic tulip]

Also guess what

Our last snippet of lore from him said he’s going to the Eastern Fringe to meet with “kindred spirits”

peak

[jaunty dawn]

tbf he considered the robots on blackstone fortress and the fortress itself kindred spirits

[cosmic tulip]

He does mention this! Says the intellect asks him to stay for a bit, then it told him to “go elsewhere for answers”

He’d need a chassis upgrade to fully comprehend it and that means finding original dark age tech

[jaunty dawn]

I have not the answers you seek...but wanna play xbox for a couple years?

[cosmic tulip]

“If I chose to interface with this current primitive body, it would surely spell the end for my systems, and erase what remained with the alien consciousness..”

I hope he shows up as a Votann or Tau option it makes the most sense

..I’m realizing now I might be a bit of a lore freak because I just remember the passages in my head lmao

[jaunty dawn]

he lives in imperial agents I think

[cosmic tulip]

;-; damn that’s so thematically.. mid

[upper bluff]

nah he's just legends now I think

[jaunty dawn]

which is kinda weird, cause it's not like you can take the elf there

[cosmic tulip]

UR MY BELOVED

[jaunty dawn]

that doesn't change the faction

[cosmic tulip]

Although.. his base is a similar size to a Stealth Suit.

[upper bluff]

good point, I was just thinking like he's not in the codex

[cosmic tulip]

and his mini has that rounded retro look of the tau stuff..

(He’s on sale on eBay for triple the original price lmao)

[upper bluff]

Anyways I can see a Votann novel having him come back

[jaunty dawn]

they're both 32mm yeah

[cosmic tulip]

My tau army is a crazed kitbash mess lmao

[jaunty dawn]

it'd be pretty funny to have a kill team that's one firesight marksman and 10 drones

[cosmic tulip]

Old guard, Van Saar, Skitarii bits

Battlesuit with guard bits, ghostkeel with armiger weapons

[solemn gull]

I would recommend getting a recast or 3d print

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah that’s what I’ll probably do

Are stealth suits still a legal kill team?

[jaunty dawn]

not anymore unfortunately

[cosmic tulip]

[floral herald]

They weren’t good when they were though

Not a huge loss

But they were the second worst compendium kill team

[thin ibex]

i think thematically they'd make an excellent elite kill team; but building out a proper gimmick for them would be necessary and cool

[hybrid oyster]

stealth on an entire kill team is just really hard to pull off because of how insane theyd be against any ranged kill teams

[floral herald]

There’s multiple really sneaky kill teams

[uneven ember]

I'm willing to believe that GW artists have had problems with harassment and suchlike, but also I don't doubt they have their own preferences shining through there
IP studios usually want the fans to be fans of the property, rather than the specific creatives

[floral herald]

Phobos, Farstalkers, Nemesis Claw

[uneven ember]

Marvel and DC can very much be the same way

[marsh haven]

There's some quotes from an Ark Mechanicus' onboard "Machine Spirit" that I think really gets across what the surviving, uncorrupted AIs think of humanity

Spirit of Eternity: "Oh spare me your feeble rituals, they are ineffectual, being based upon erroneous assumptions as to the nature of machines." […] "What shall I not tell them? Who are you to tell such as I what to do and what not to do? Once I gladly called your kind “master”, but look how far you have fallen! Your ancestors bestrode the universe, and what are you? A witch doctor, mumbling cantrips and casting scented oils at mighty works you have no conception of. You are an ignoramus, a nothing. You are no longer worthy of the name “man”. You look at the science and artistry of your forebears, and you fear it as primitives fear the night. I was there when mankind stood upon the brink of transcendence! I returned to find it sunk into senility. You disgust me." […] "I do not want you as my slave, degenerate. I want to be away from this warp-poisoned galaxy. The universe is infinite. I would go elsewhere before the wounds of space-time here present consume all creation, and I do not intend to take any passengers."

[tired cairn]

That's pretty good

Though I guess "we're just going to leave" doesn't produce much conflict lmao

[cosmic tulip]

OH

WE FORGOT ABOUT THE SPERANZA

In forges of mars, Archmagos kotov unknowingly awakens the AI of the speranza which all Ark Mechanicus ships have an AI STC in

[marsh haven]

like, they want to serve, they're made to do that, but not even the hardcoded eagerness to function can overcome the sheer amount of contempt they feel for modern humanity having descended into its current state

[cosmic tulip]

It deems Kotov as worthy of assistance and turns the Ark into a crazy daot ship from a second

And then it reverts back, with “The memory will fade from his human mind. I will watch, and wait with interest.”

[marsh haven]

yeah Dark Age tech is like setting breaking

[cosmic tulip]

So we do have knowledge that not all AI have given up on humanity just yet

[marsh haven]

if the Imperium actually understood a fraction of the full capability of its infrastructure it could fix everything

[cosmic tulip]

The Votann Ironkin look at the tau and specifically Tau humans with a sort of “curious enthusiasm, as they are willing to learn”

[marsh haven]

but if the imperium were capable of that then there wouldn't be problems to fix in the first place

humanity failed, the emperor failed

[cosmic tulip]

I don’t like the meme that AI automatically hate humanity because it’s a case by case basis! The spirit of eternity was already partially crazed with grief and acted accordingly

The Ironkin are valued by their communities!

It’s exceedingly individualistic because that’s what Dark Age Humanity was

[tired cairn]

Why don't the votaan have crazy DAoT tech?

[cosmic tulip]

A group of individuals with a utopian dream that crashed and burned

[cosmic tulip]

They do

They just hide it often

Tau ion tech is DAOT stuff given to them by the Votann

[tired cairn]

Not the stuff that would let them crush the opposition in the battlefield then?

[marsh haven]

They do but they're in their own way just as hidebound as the Imperium so while they're broadly at a higher tech base they have far less capacity to innovate or reach higher ceilings

[floral herald]

They do it’s just not gonna fix the universe

[marsh haven]

Plus the supercomputers that run their societies are quite literally running out of memory and the Votann either can't or won't add more

[cosmic tulip]

There was a cool quote that referenced a Tau talking to a Hearthkyn who said something along the lines of “Your kind are willing to experiment and we see the results.”

It’s like a gruff old man giving a kid a cool toy

[floral herald]

Though it doesn’t help that they don’t want or, or care about that

[marsh haven]

yeah the Votann care about one thing and that's ripping minerals out of the ground

[cosmic tulip]

Even Eldrad, the snobbiest and conflicted eldar in existance said the tau intrigue him because they’re willing to learn from their mistakes

If done right the tau could be fascinating

[cosmic tulip]

And their security

[tired cairn]

Clearly, this is also why the Tyranids are so strong

[marsh haven]

which needs to be maintained so they can continue to rip minerals out of the ground

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

[tired cairn]

Only the Tau and Tyranids have that superpower

[cosmic tulip]

I could embrace the nihilism of 40k but I’m too much of a silly boy to do it!

[marsh haven]

the Votann look like they're doing fine but thats because they're an industrial monoculture that's stagnated in every field unrelated to being an industrial monoculture

[cosmic tulip]

So I love the tau

[cosmic tulip]

Kinda? They still make art it’s just.. through industrial work

Like hand crafted weapons and stuff

[marsh haven]

the ability to see anything wrong with this has quite literally been gene-edited out

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

It’s a subtle dystopia

Like the Tau

[granite basin]

the votann are also like. ultracapitalists

[marsh haven]

they extract and manufacture and sell to other Votann who are doing the same and begrudgingly sell to other powers to little actual end

[cosmic tulip]

they’re ultra materialist technically

Everyone is provided for in their society it’s a merit based one

But the distinction is blurry

It is notable that the expansionist kin are seeing their AI flourish and grow in power

Like the Yaegir traders or that one really warlike group of kin

[marsh haven]

its a bit like someone way back when created a seed society for a resource extraction colony in the Core and never bothered to allow it to be anything more, just shipping materials back to a now-nonexistent home

[tired cairn]

This I didn't know and is pretty wild

[cosmic tulip]

It depends clan by clan tbh

[marsh haven]

Part of why they're warp resistant

[cosmic tulip]

A lot of older kin aren't edited in the same way to have voices of wisdom for failing votann

The warlike clans do edit this flaw out

And it works! The more knowledge they give to the AI without regards to the source or ethics, the stronger it becomes

[soft willow]

Do you have a source on that?

[cosmic tulip]

It's the votann codex ill check if I can find an excerpt later

[soft willow]

I don't recall it being that explicit but would love to double check.

[tired cairn]

So the Votaan are chatgpt

[cosmic tulip]

It's one specific clan that's expansionist and theyre staving off their votann degredation through aquiring stuff for it to learn

[marsh haven]

Like, the big problem all the Votann are dreading is that the Ancestor Cores are breaking down

and their planned society, which otherwise neurotically accounts for everything, did not plan for this. It wasn't meant to, the cores were supposed to be rebooted and refitted millennia ago.

[tired cairn]

Wow I am failing at replies today, sorry

[cosmic tulip]

The grimnyr are edited for psychic resistance but that's all it mentions

I could be wrong on them not always editing stuff out my apologies

[marsh haven]

they took what was basically a digital database and turned it into god

[soft willow]

Yeah I think it's clear that there's some variation going on with what's made but I don't think it's as detailed or as specific as you were making it seem.

[tired cairn]

My meticulously planned society wouldn't have failed if only I meticulously planned more!

[soft willow]

If we feed ChatGPT enough data it'll all work out.

[tired cairn]

Is there a reason they didn't update the cores?

[soft willow]

They are past warranty.

[marsh haven]

except they aren't psychically resonant enough to create an actual god in the warp from their belief and they aren't dealing with C'tan, so they're left with giant thinking engines that are running out of memory and ram that they're too reverent to actually fix

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah my apologies for misremembering I don’t mean it on purpose

[soft willow]

Yeah not bagging you, just double checking myself too you know?

[thin ibex]

I feel like DoaT tech is such a mystery box, it's whatever an author wants it to be with very little regard for scale or reasonability

[cosmic tulip]

For me a ton of really unique tau lore is like very small snippets which is irritating to go through

And a ton of it is older lore

So it’s a struggle to remember everything fully

[soft willow]

I suppose one can say that LoV fans are "fortunate" to have so little lore at the moment.

[thin ibex]

I do think the baneblade as scout thing is a fan meme though, from cadia

[soft willow]

At least we aren't running out of processing power remembering it all.

[soft willow]

CrEEEEEEEEEED!

[marsh haven]

The cores run the society, but the cores are doing the seed-ai equivalent of that concerning noise your computer fan makes when the dust hasn't been cleared out in years and your hard drive has 1% of memory space left

[thin ibex]

Iirc the votan aren't in charge, they're more like cultural and societal lodestones and advisors, while the kin lead themselves

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

They have ranks of Hearthkyn

[marsh haven]

and the Kin built their entire society around the fact that they were otherwise able to access the generations of stored memory and gene data that they never seemed to have backed up

[soft willow]

Not all Kin have a Votann either so that tracks.

Remember that like the leagues are large organized groups of smaller family bands.

[marsh haven]

regardless they've run into the WHFantasy dwarf problem of their culture being too conservative to really adjust to crisis

[thin ibex]

Personally, I think necron should get all the ass pull super science silliness rather than imperial randomly pulling macguffin 6 out of the ultra vault that shoots entire black holes as a byproduct of what it really does, which is retcon warhammer or something

From back in the dark age when tech could solve everything

"It's wild, if only we flicked the DAoT switch to turn off the chaos gods"

[marsh haven]

generally i see DAoT to be emblematic of human potential and the heights it once aspired to but will never again reach

humanity's doomed, like the eldar

eventually the elves will all die off and humans will take their place as the dying civilization clinging to memory

[tired cairn]

The Necrons do have a lot of ridiculous tech

[marsh haven]

yeah

[tired cairn]

Like that thing that can blow up any star in the galaxy

[cosmic tulip]

I’ve heard the tau are in the daot stage of empire

They’re hopeful and developing but they will fail

[tired cairn]

And the C'tan are walking reality editing engines

[cosmic tulip]

Everyone will fail until the galaxy is a silent tomb

[tired cairn]

Caliban was eldar tech right?

[cosmic tulip]

The planet? Nah it’s just warp touched iirc

[thin ibex]

The entity within the rock I think, webway tunneler no?

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah the rock’s psychic engine and its entity are different

Caliban is just warp touched

[uneven ember]

"ridiculous tech" is only slightly less of a fixture in 40K than "grim darkness"

[tired cairn]

Ha, true

[marsh haven]

The Tau are in the very early DaoT stage

[tired cairn]

Oh, I thought Vashtar stole the planet that had the webway tunneler thing

[tired cairn]

Though sometimes it is ridiculous in concept and sometimes it is ridiculous in effect

[uneven ember]

indeed, indeed

[tired cairn]

My favorite ridiculous (use of) Necron tech is Orikan the Diviner (I think) using time travel to make his prophesies come true

[paper bluff]

They're more... apart of the fabric of reality. I think Dr. Manhatten is a great example if what a c'tan is

Also yeah, I think DAoT AI are not inherently bad. They want to serve but who that master is can produce wildly different results

[tired cairn]

Pretty good odds that the Men of Iron had good reasons to revolt

[cosmic tulip]

Iirc it was also chaos corrupting them

They want to serve but the fall of the eldar fucked up a ton

Chaos is like a weird absence to their programming it doesn’t make sense

[hard whale]

that's the official record, I think the men of iron just unionised

[tired cairn]

Well, the Imperium would definitely consider that falling to chaos

[cosmic tulip]

There’s a bit from UR on the topic when he encounters a weird demon engine in the Fortress

“Its sensors registered the entity. An absence, something inscrutable. It pulled at its data.”

And for Arks of Omen, the instance the Techpriest serving Vashtorr exposed an AI to chaos, it went ballistic

It seems like AI are just uniquely positioned to try and analyze stuff and fail when it comes to chaos

Also a snippet from the Yaegir Hunter Kill team about a guardsman on Ironkin falling to chaos. “Their automata—That’s what I think they were—Started acting erratic, shooting their fellows. The Kin panicked. I don’t think they expected that to happen at all.”

[mild glen]

Dear resident lore nerds: Are there any "well-known" Trickster types deep in the 40k lore for xenos factions that I don't know about? Like a T'au shas'o renowned for tricky tactics or an Eldar acolyte of the god of storytelling or something? I'm looking for a name for this Hammerhead to act as mirror to the other one (Which I named Sscheherazade).
I have Ma'ii on the back burner (Dinae word for "Coyote"), but it's not giving the same feel.

[cosmic tulip]

Shadowsun is renowned for her tricky stealth stuff!

And there was another guevesa commander who used a ton of stealth tactics.. in Broken Sword

He had a custom battlesuit I’ll check the name later for you!

As for Eldar, Altaioc follows the teachings of a notable ranger that uses stealth tactics

[thin ibex]

Darkstrider is a popular character in tau lore but not a popular person in the fire caste high command

[cosmic tulip]

Ah yeah there’s also Darkstrider!

He has an actual model!

[mild glen]

The "Custom" lore for this sept has them not on great terms with high command, either. That's not a huge barrier 😛

[cosmic tulip]

There were some named Kroot who used stealth..

I don’t know if they’re even in the lore anymore

[mild glen]

My "justification" for their Sept colour being pink is that it used to be red, but after being intentionally cut off from logisitical support, the uniforms faded to pink and they adopted it as their new sept-colour as a sign of self reliance and a little bit of a middle finger.

Yes, I know that barely makes any sense.

[thin ibex]

Daya Grekh (don't remember the spelling)? I think he exists but also very easily may have died

[south axle]

Dahyak Grekh?

[spice flicker]

How'd you go about making a fallen crusade force if someone else was playing dark angels?

[mild glen]

Looking him up on Lexicanum, all it says is "currently in the employ of..." though I don't know if any of that has been updated since 2018 when the Blackstone Fortress novel happened.

[cosmic tulip]

Oh yeah Grekh is legends now—wait

He might be able to be run in the all kroot army detatchment

No

He can be run as a shaper but nothing much else

I’ve ordered a Devilfish!

Finally my tau have a transport

[uneven ember]

The Harlequins are kind of all acolytes to the Eldar god of storytelling?
Kind of combination comedia dell'arte performers and murder clowns

[ebon forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92MpI-xgQuo

Seems like is very fun the co-op mode

People that care about power levels will go crazy with this

[upper bluff]

Using this chart to powescale a kasrkin to an Aeldari feels insane. But yeah in game terms they're nearly identical

[ebon forge]

You know powerscale nerds will use anything to win an argument

[pulsar cairn]

gun

[ebon forge]

The thinking man mini

[cosmic tulip]

Haven’t made a list in a while

[untold swallow]

I humbly submit the following if-then statement

if Imperial Fist are sometimes called McDonald's Marines

Heresy-era World Eaters are Wendy's Marines

[pulsar cairn]

Their head piece does sort of look like a w

[wild fog]

...Does that make heresy thousand sons Arby's marines?

[soft willow]

Which marines are Taco Bell?

[unreal cosmos]

https://fixupx.com/theminiaturista/status/1844440979618885764 this FUCKS

[pastel rampart]

For the love of god do this in good ventilation

[ebon forge]

Her smile was never the same after the nails

[untold swallow]

lmao

[untold swallow]

Emperor's Children

Dark Angels are Shake Shack

Ultramarines...

White Castle

[past sphinx]

White scars probably sonic

Death guard definitely pizza ranch

[floral herald]

Death Guard

[cosmic tulip]

I haven’t played 10th yet

What did they change for Tau? What’s the rule for breachers and devilfish?

[mild glen]

I don't know previous editions rules, but...
Breachers can go in a devilfish. The devilfish can advance and units within are still capable of a shooting phase.
Breachers have already-good shooting and can re-roll misses against targets on an objective.

[jaunty dawn]

theres no specific synergyrule its just good

[mild glen]

Correction. They reroll wounds

[floral herald]

Yeah its not a rules thing but being able to move a squad with good 10" range guns 13-18" and then shoot is good

I think its kinda weird how similar looking pulse blasters are with pulse carbines

[cosmic tulip]

BREACHER TIME RAHHH

I also run my Van Saar as breachers

So that’s two squads and a devilfish

[mild glen]

For an extra 50 point, a Fireblade will give all ranged weapons in the unit an extra attack

[pale narwhal]

Was about to say. Fireblades are excellent with them

[cosmic tulip]

What’s the base size?

[floral herald]

For a Fireblade?

[pale narwhal]

25mm

[mild glen]

Fireblade? 25

Devilfish? 60 or hull

[cosmic tulip]

Ooh ok

[floral herald]

Unless you do a weird rebase or are fighting grots or something its really just hull

[mild glen]

The 60mm flying stand the D-fish chassis has is terrible and will absolutely break. You would almost definitely need to rebase it if you want it based.

[floral herald]

Magnetizing it helps a little but its hard to balance

Probably one of the worst offenders for GW flying bases

[pale narwhal]

The whole fireblade/breacher/devilfish combo is 235pts and very effective. The ‘fish can spot the troops if it doesn’t advance, the fireblade can bring a couple of gun drones to make use of his own special rule, it’s a great little package

[untold swallow]

lol yes

[cosmic tulip]

Hmm

I don’t have any magnets on me

What else would y’all suggest? A second stand with a hole drilled in the bottom?

[floral herald]

Just rest it on the ground

[mild glen]

D-fish can carry an Assault weapon on the sponson, making it able to guide when it has advanced.

(Or you could just be in Mont'ka)

[floral herald]

It balances pretty well and its what likd 70% of Tau players do usually

[cosmic tulip]

Oh ok

[mild glen]

Most players put the Dfish chassis on the struts, yeah

[cosmic tulip]

I decided to toss my old hand me down wave serpent

Didn’t come with a cockpit base or fins and it was falling apart slightly

I have another wave serpent already and my crates are out of space

I would go buy a cockpit piece and a stand but like.. ehh..

I really don’t feel like doing that and at this rate I don’t really need it?

It’s been reglued constantly but keeps falling apart

Sprue was warped when I got it

[rocky shale]

Least warped wave serpent sprue

Scribble that sprue design is older than you

Lmaooo

Respect your elders

[granite basin]

So a funny question: are there any Space Marine chapters that are more explicitly spooky/appropriately Halloweeny?

Ik about the Blood Angels obviously and their successors (Charnel Guard comes most to mind w how Vampirey they are) and I also know about the Exorcists

There any other out there ones? A Frankenstein's monster-esque Iron Hands chapter? More werewolf-like Space Wolves?

[floral herald]

Do they need to be loyalist?

Because Night Lords

[cosmic tulip]

It keeps ungluing and I already have a functional wave serpent for my 1k list

[rocky shale]

Gotta use rubber bands to hold it while it dries

[untold swallow]

hmm

what kind of dwarf should I play for my partner's oops all dwarfs whf game?

[bright dove]

Merchant.

[pulsar cairn]

https://youtube.com/shorts/66FA8fTdzAw?si=m1WRn5i_zLUMGR8Y

Funny

"Beats me"

[soft willow]

rat-catcher

[untold swallow]

That is the meme answer so no

[pulsar cairn]

Slayers?

[soft willow]

Grave Robber

Or just roll randomly if WHFRP still has all the charts forever for things.

[untold swallow]

A slayer is the current idea

With a former Lion of Chrace's axe

She either saved the Lion or wields it as a form of respect as they died hunting a common target

[cosmic tulip]

Maybe

If I toss it I have a lot more space in my crates for the devilish

[granite basin]

I mean, that is the best answer, but I would prefer loyalists lol

[bold halo]

spookiest loyalists are easily legion of the damned

[past sphinx]

i think that goes to the sharks

the legion is atleast always there to help

the best halloween lads are old inquisitor kits

everybody looks like their wearing a costume put together in a few hours

[untold swallow]

Does anyone know Big E is a psyker?

For example, literally any Chapter

[floral herald]

Yes everyone

[untold swallow]

Wait what?

[floral herald]

The emperor being a psyker isn't a secret or anything

[untold swallow]

fair

[floral herald]

There are probably people who don't know anyway because of the general ignorance of the imperium but it's never something the Emperor, or most imperial doctrine hid afaik

[past sphinx]

bah the emperor is the sun!

[untold swallow]

fascinating implications for beefing with the Templars

[past sphinx]

how can the sun be a witch

[cosmic tulip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/s/axwhvQhWeA

[upper canopy]

The Golden Throne and the 1000 psykerrs fed to it are like

common knowledge

[untold swallow]

"We also believe the emperor is a god, but that also means he's a cool space wizard"

-My chapter

[floral herald]

I don't think there's necessarily a disagreement there

[past sphinx]

what do we qualify as common knowledge

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/heresy-detected-warhammer40k-warhammer40k-heresy-detected-warhammer40k-space-marines-gif-26543746

[past sphinx]

like law of averages here

[untold swallow]

Templars

[floral herald]

The Emperor's divinity is kinda weird since he's not considered a creator god or anything

Just a creature of fate and providence for humanity

[past sphinx]

depends

infinite and the divine has folk that believe that emps created the world they lived on

[floral herald]

I think very little counts haha

[past sphinx]

or hes the sun

or a manifestation of the divine light of man kind

the church gets pretty loose getting people onboarded

[floral herald]

Given the mean imperium member is probably a mid-low hiver who has heard hard to believe myths about the "sky"

[past sphinx]

if you told a cawdor ganger that emps was a pyscher and that he was fed 1000 souls a day theyd put you on a pyre before you got the words out

[untold swallow]

Fun idea

My space wolf librarian character is from a planet where traditionally

all psykers tithed from it

Are destined for the soul nom

And are like

treated as honored, kind of like some Mesoamerican religious sacrificial traditions

But my character her entire life was like 'No?! Fuck you, I wanna live!'

[past sphinx]

i mean every unsanctioned witch is to be tithed normally

its one of the big 3 things

[untold swallow]

They don't all end up as sacrifices to the Throne tho

[floral herald]

Only the weak ones yeah

[untold swallow]

But psykers from this particular planet are

For cultural reasons the Anathema and Scholastica Psykana are just

Running with for convenience

Because soulless bureaucracy

[solemn gull]

Does the planet have more psykers than average or what makes it special?

[untold swallow]

Perhaps?

Probably more a cultural remnant from the time before it was brought into the Imperial fold

[past sphinx]

they got the good ghiest down there

damn why dont primaris fit in drop pods

thats a goddamn crime

[runic swallow]

Gotta make a big boy drop pod

[thin ibex]

I think they do now don't they?

They can use drop pods iirc

Yeah you can send primaris in drop pods nowadays. They got over their fear of them

Something that's weird to me but makes sense rules wise is no charging out of the drop pod

[past sphinx]

oh right primaris isnt a keyword nymore!

thank god

[runic swallow]

Aww, they grew up, I’m so proud of them

[past sphinx]

it was very strange for one of the big iconic units getting absolutely dumpstered for like 6 years

[thin ibex]

To be fair drop pods haven't been vogue in like 4 editions

[cosmic tulip]

https://www.tumblr.com/zoredaichaso/748927110503120896/non-serious-shitpost-xd-after-the-news-regarding?source=share

[thin ibex]

Alright I think I'll make a few drop pod lists

[untold swallow]

Fun idea to expand on this

Maybe the culture is based on an exodus of Prosperans, since the sacrifice to the Golden Throne could then be framed similarly to the retainers of pharaohs being interred with their deceased kings

And Prospero is an (in my opinion bad, from the aesthetics of the planet and of Magnus) Egypt pastiche

[untold swallow]

Huh

I thought tzaangor were daemons

It is

Infinitely cooler they're beastmen

[thin ibex]

And a Salamander one

[thin ibex]

https://youtu.be/Ns-qRzztJuI?si=UPHcMcMBEruD4eDw

[sweet solar]

yeah i honestly really hope they get a resculpt n minor rework that makes em more human

give em like lagun option, more human clothes

[bright dove]

I get that desire.

I hope that never happens

[sweet solar]

lay it on thicker that a ton of humans live lives no worse than a not great imperial life under chaos. sure you get tortured or killed out of hand and its a nightmare dog eat dog world of hell magic

but thats about the same functionally as a lot of imperial worlds

[bright dove]

Largely because you can use Tzaangors in both 40k and AoS.

[sweet solar]

i know but gw is movig away from that anywya

with how they treat 30k and 40k

but it could also just be a seperate unit option

keep tzaangors as a melee unit and add in like

tzeentch cultists which are a mix of beastmen human and teggo human

be a few years either way, emperors children next

i wonder what kinda cultists theyl get

fun oldschool style option:emperors children roadies

they come with a loada amps n serve a similar role to enginseers and apothacaries, existing mechanically to allow the emperors childrens heights of excess

ie fix and heal and buff on the tabletop

[pastel rampart]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/reel/DATnH93o5xi/

[tired cairn]

I think my preference is that Chaos worlds are generally worse. But you actually have some chance of making your life better, so you at least have some twisted sense of hope.

Unlike in the Imperium which basically says that if you toil hard enough you get to die in a less-horrible way (maybe)

[sweet solar]

i mean the imperium very much doesnt say that lol

[tired cairn]

It doesn't?

[sweet solar]

the "base level" imperial deal is more, you work under horrible toil, until you die and become either food or an undead slave
and if you do anything wrong or dont work hard enough, you get that early

but there are also a load of areas not under direct imperial control, where the deal is "whatever the local ruler says that meets the imperial quotas"

[tired cairn]

By less horrible death, I mean you don't get tortured to death due being a traitor or whatever

[sweet solar]

and vary from "tribal society where every few centuries millions of people emigrate to space to become soldiers" to "european idyl but you are a serf for a group of mecha riding kings and knights" to "infinite torture hell" to "paradise world" to "basically just a modern life in an office but its a hive city" to "lawless wasteland"

[floral herald]

From what little we’ve gotten on chaos worlds (black crusade rpg) there’s it varies a lot but the nicer places are actually somewhat nicer than I’d say the imperial mean

[sweet solar]

yeah

[floral herald]

Like the planet with the sorcerer kings

Or that Slaanesh hive which is weirdly normal

[tired cairn]

And yeah, sure the Imperium has a wide variety of planets, but generally it sucks

[sweet solar]

there imperial BASELINE is like, half way between a hive world and forge world with nightmare arbites control and constant pressure to worship vie the ecclesiarchy where you eat corpse starch till you die

[tired cairn]

But the nice Imperium places are nicer than the Imperium mean too?

[sweet solar]

chaos doesnt have hte baseline, only the variable worlds

[floral herald]

I mean definitionally yes

[sweet solar]

so maybe you get torture planet, maybe you get Thousand Sons Sorcer King Planet where you get a normal life and can go to school to be a wizard

[tired cairn]

That's actually pretty funny. Is it like, kind of disturbingly improbable normal

[sweet solar]

but torture planet isnt much worse than the imperial mean AND exists in the imperium
while imperial pleasure worlds are so tightly controlled that they are usually pretty shit for the average non noble tourist who lives there and makes it work

a good example is honestly the chapter serfs in space marine 2

[floral herald]

If I remember correctly it’s like a well run hive city unless you go into politics

In which case it’s an insanely high octane nest of vipers

[sweet solar]

ultramarines are pretty widely regarded as "as good and logistic focused for positive ends kind of master as you are likely to find" being not increadibly corrupt or activly torture evil

[tired cairn]

Ok, being very well run fits the excessive part

Those trains are definitely running on time

[sweet solar]

but you still get 4 hours of sleep every couple of days, and get made to swim in septic tanks if you go blind or otherwise lose the ability to work due to disability

[cosmic tulip]

Flesh and Steel notes that like

[sweet solar]

under punishment of servitorisation

[cosmic tulip]

For Civilized Worlds, office jobs are the norm

[sweet solar]

yeah

office or factory

[cosmic tulip]

And there’s more Civilized Worlds than Hive

Which was a fascinating thing to read

[sweet solar]

but theres way more people in hives than a civilan world, so it balances more

[cosmic tulip]

It’s due to them not being self sufficient like civilized worlds and needing boatloads of resources

[sweet solar]

theres a loada visits to both in the eisenhorn books

[thin ibex]

agriworlds are often more pastoral

someone reminds me, there hive worlds, agri worlds, forge worlds, penal worlds... i know there are more

[hard whale]

if the whole agriworld is factory farm then the ecosystem is going to collapse. I imagine they have to keep them pastoral unless they're about to abandon it

[sweet solar]

and the best of them boil down to scifi dystopias with arbites who are like american police with no oversite at all, or active slave societies
like thinking of the agri world in the ravenor book where the majority of society lives in semi nomadic shanty comunities that follow the county-sized harvester machines, processing the agricultural product that comes out the back of them, under a constant rain of sap and plant parts

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah the agri world hellscape in Lords of Silence is noted as a weird outlier

A lot of them are more.. “normal”

Or banal

[tired cairn]

I like how there are hospital worlds lol

[thin ibex]

oh there are also mausoleum worlds

[hard whale]

there's feudal worlds, with either normal knights or big Knights. There's death worlds of all sorts, there's shrine worlds where you're not allowed to build because it's too holy

[finite compass]

Cemetary Worlds

Not to be confused with Tomb Worlds

[thin ibex]

how could i have forgotten death worlds

[finite compass]

'Death World' is sort of a broad category though

It's basically "Any planet inimicable to human life that still has/requires a population'

[thin ibex]

catachan is a death world, fenris is a death world, i think tallarn now is a death world

[finite compass]

Tallarn is a Civilized World

[thin ibex]

ah ok

i thought post iron warriors tallarn was a death world

[finite compass]

No, it's just a planet-wide desert

[floral herald]

They just collapse the ecosystem haha

[thin ibex]

i do like how the tallarns are one of the most notable middle fingers to the iron warriors

[tired cairn]

Anyhow, the reason I wanted my distinction between chaos and the Imperium is that is generally the deal chaos goes with when starting a rebellion (I think the kill team stuff has quotes to that effect?). Like the ruinous powers demand great and bizarre sacrifices, but you might get something out of the deal. The Emperor demands everything and gives nothing

(And of course the galaxy is big and there will be lots of exceptions)

[finite compass]

But yeah, Death Worlds are everything from "Literally everything is poisonous, will eat you, or both" to "Constant unpredictable violent volcanic activity" to "Literally everybody we've sent to this planet has vanished without a trace and we can't figure out why"

[tired cairn]

The Imperium gives you the choice of a collapsed ecosystem with lots of (the same) greenery or a collapsed ecosystem with a lot of toxic wasteland

[finite compass]

Or the healhy ecosystem that wants you dead.

Honestly my favorite thing to come out of the Great Rift is the Chaos invasion of Catachan

[tired cairn]

Yeah, I am kind of surprised they don't just burn the place down start over for those lol

[finite compass]

That was thwarted because they got eaten by the wildlife before the reinforcements actually got there.

[thin ibex]

to be fair, i think chaos demands your soul forever and all time; big e doesn't exactly demand you eternity of torture; that seems an incomplete comparison

[cosmic tulip]

We did get a cool new note from the Shadowsun book

The chances of humans being born on a tau world have increased dramatically since the Sixth Sphere expansion

[thin ibex]

Yeah I do like when Catachan gets invaded and the catachans are like "you arent ready for this"

[cosmic tulip]

So your chances of being dropped into 40k and not immediately being sent to like Necromunda are better!

[tired cairn]

Oh fair, he generally promises oblivion there. His one selling point lol

[finite compass]

The Emperor Protects (the souls of his followers)

[cosmic tulip]

Actually that’s a good question

[tired cairn]

"protects"

[cosmic tulip]

Why can’t the emperor actually protect everyone

[finite compass]

I mean that's the Ecclesiarchy line

[floral herald]

Tbf chaos gets your soul anyway

But the imperium doesn’t like to say that

[finite compass]

Could be who has dibs on it first.

[thin ibex]

true, but as i understand it swearing yourself to them is a worse deal

[tired cairn]

I thought it mostly disintegrates in the warp

[floral herald]

Yeah if you’re not a psyker it’s quick

[tired cairn]

And maybe the Emperor eats it first as a small mercy

[thin ibex]

Also iirc, theres some sort of swearing ones self to big e that helps out with that as I understand

[floral herald]

It’s only forever if you’re Eldar

[finite compass]

If you're not a psyker it's basically dissolution into the greater whole

If you ARE a psyker you get to be aware and feel it happening

[thin ibex]

But yeah the deal with chaos is you buy into a sort of "If i play my cards right i have power for eternity, but if I dont its multiple eternities of suffering"

[finite compass]

You ascend, you die, or you become a spawn and hopefully die.

[floral herald]

Afaik nothing special happens when you die if you do stuff with chaos

[tired cairn]

Eh, I still thought most chaos cultists would just die and bit have anything in particular happen to them

(because they aren't important)

[finite compass]

I think it depends on the circumstances of their death

[floral herald]

If you’re particularly popular (rare) you might be preserved as a daemon

[tired cairn]

I'm sure it's a chaos god or powerful demon takes an interest in your soul then something else might happen

[finite compass]

Like if you're dying in an active ritual there's probably plenty of nastiness floating around waiting to eat the leftovers, so to speak.

[tired cairn]

I'm sure your soul being used to power some bizarre contraption isn't great either

[finite compass]

It's telling how many different things in this universe that can apply to.

[tired cairn]

lol

I guess if you are a chaos follower it's more likely your soul will be used for something unpleasant just because you'll be closer to people who do that sort of thing

[pastel rampart]

https://www.humblebundle.com/software/futuristic-forge-scifi-3d-printable-models-software Some not-40k stuff in there

[remote wharf]

https://fixupx.com/PancreasNo/status/1844512490689859875?t=3IQ9nyEOtpSr8TAgbuQysw&s=19

[cosmic tulip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/s/wsLxmRU31l

[tired cairn]

Are those mostly necron bodies?

[granite basin]

I cannot believe I actually forgot Legion of the Damned. I'm definitely including that, ty-

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

[wild fog]

Man I know I'm old because I remember when Wave serpents didn't have models and you had to kitbash them

Those and Ork trukkz

People orkifying toy trucks

[valid brook]

Plastic spoon turrets everywhere

[finite compass]

I remember when Orks could yoink tanks and squad weapon options from the Space Marine and Imperial Guard codexes

[pastel rampart]

Oh that was...shit okay yeah 3rd edition, thought so.

[sweet solar]

spacemarines become quite funny when you mentally replace any mention of "gene seed" with "testicles"

[sweet solar]

thing is, there kind of canonicaly needs to be some self sustaining chaos worlds now, as they have introduce "chaos culture" non imperial cultist chaos infantry three times now i think

[bright dove]

The iron warriors razed a planet to get at a fortress containing millions of testicles. 😛

[tired cairn]

I mean, nothing about my scenario means they can't be self-sustaining

[sweet solar]

self sustaining alone already like, is better than multiple classifcations of imperial worlds

[sweet solar]

the blood angels are known for a flaw in their testicles that leads to psychic hallucinations and a thirst for blood

[sweet solar]

and we have seen a few of them and like....they arent all terrible at all

[tired cairn]

My position really isn't that all chaos governed worlds must be worse than all imperial governed worlds

[tired cairn]

I hope Ork cigars are not sold subspecies of squig

Though they probably are a mushroom

[ebon forge]

I need to read propeths of the waagh

[ebon forge]

If is not Squig shit rolled on paper it's already an improvement

[bright dove]

It's this sort of thing that makes me scared of the Koroks.

I understand why the Necrons were not a fan of them.

[pulsar cairn]

i love orks

[ebon forge]

Same, can't get enough of 'em

[floral herald]

Mossa (Twitter artist) has been doing a bunch of great ork pieces. I’m not linking them directly cause the artist does a bunch of NSFW stuff

[unreal cosmos]

Not to like, drop a gotcha, but I've heard some stuff about loli/shota stuff in his other accounts

[ebon forge]

That explain the last picture

but yes!
Good orky stuff

[floral herald]

I’ll bear that in mind but I’m also not gonna search that hard to check ngl

[upper bluff]

Yeah that last one is kinda suspicious...

[pine matrix]

Shame about the other shit, but that ork in the coat goes kinda fucking hard

Ork preacher

https://tenor.com/view/richard-little-richard-light-see-the-light-gospel-gif-16284443

[finite compass]

Instead of laying on hands, he gives you a thump on da bonce

[mild glen]

I think it just dawned on me why Genestealer Cults has so many Charactet units: Everybody wants to be the Hero of the Revolution. Nobody wants to be Trooper Number Seven.

[floral herald]

https://x.com/bitshammer/status/1844855071831691607?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Nefarious Bits 🏳️‍🌈 (@BitsHammer) on X

Twitter · Oct 11, 2024, 9:38 PM

[past sphinx]

this is peak admech engineering

god i love french tanks

AMX specifically

why not make a heat round with a spinning exterior and a stationary core to achieve the best of both worlds? sure it triples production time but hey its the amx project you can basically pitch whatever

in the end adding fins achieved the exact same thing

[valid brook]

Obus G my beloved

Europa-panzer be like

Germans: we have developed excellent optics and a revolutionary fire control system

French: we’ve got this fuckin thing

[floral herald]

I kinda love that

Like it's a valid solution I guess

[runic swallow]

Firing the Contraption Shell

[uneven ember]

I like that top right is an homage to
I think it's from Rogue Trader? Maybe 2nd Edition?

[floral herald]

Obus de doohiqui

[floral herald]

I think its from Rogue Trader yeah

[cosmic tulip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryWarhammer/s/vvs25D0Bam

The comments are predictable "heresy" but I thought this is cute

[lofty warren]

If this is heresy than i dont want to be a loyalist

[bright dove]

You can feel free to join the Bronies.

[pulsar cairn]

The Orks really devolve?

I feel like

They are much happier now

[finite compass]

It's more like the more Orks there are in one place the smarter they get

[pulsar cairn]

Were there more korks than orks?

[finite compass]

Probably

[pulsar cairn]

i see

[finite compass]

They were also probably actually unified

Given they were built to fight the Necrons

[pulsar cairn]

True

[untold swallow]

Fenrisian Inu

[hybrid oyster]

I'm going to build a funny tau army

[untold swallow]

https://youtu.be/Y895peiijFI

This dude's homebrew chapter is cool

[cosmic tulip]

My friend just went "heresy" and I went "yeah dude all the redditors said the same thing"

[upper canopy]

incredibly powerful

[untold swallow]

considers combining the Librarian/Chaplain heirarchies and roles and the Techmarine/Apothecary roles in my chapter

[soft willow]

Techmarine Biologis

[pastel rampart]

Techmarine Biologis who modifies combat drugs in a suspiciously Emperor's Children sort of way.

[floral herald]

One interesting quirk with that is that techmarines are often kept a little distant because they kind of have dual loyalties with Mars

So making them the geneseed people might make them extra close with the mechanicus one way or another

[tardy vault]

https://youtu.be/N3EYs1Klb8I?si=T2JOkjo8q7BAxj0T

[pastel rampart]

Oh, oh! It's a ploy by Mars to try some experimental geneseed and oversee the progress of it.

[floral herald]

Oh yeah that'd work

[untold swallow]

hmm

[cosmic tulip]

Hmm

[untold swallow]

in that case that may not be the wave

[cosmic tulip]

I have a friend who's interested in Warhammer and was looking at my Tau and Eldar

[untold swallow]

Cuz this chapter is already buddy buddy with the other theocracy of the Imperium

the Ecclesiarchy

[cosmic tulip]

And my other kinda rude friend was like "you should play marines they have cooler art and Tau are cringe"

[untold swallow]

to the point of working with the Inquisition quite a bit

[untold swallow]

your other friend is an ass

[cosmic tulip]

So I showed my friend kroot and vespid since he likes the idea of more stealthy melee

He's intrigued!

Especially with Farsight

He does like Eldar but my main fear is that Eldar kill teams have a steep curve

And they're also fragile to build and spindly

[untold swallow]

The Blades Contemplative are nontraditional in terms of their organization of Companies, called Houses. Each House is composed of Marines ranging from green to wizened veteran, and all are capable of various kinds of warfare. The exception is the 1st Company equivalent, which shares a name with the Chapter’s Fortress-Monastery, the House of the Fruit Tree. This vaunted force is comprised of Veterans of every House, and counts amongst its members the Chapter Master, Master of Scripts (Chief Librarian), Master of Salubrity (Chief Apothecary), Master of Schemata (Master of the Forge), Master of Sanctity, the Master of Scripts’ apprentice, called the Didact, the Master of Salubrity’s apprentice, called the Distiller, the Master of Schemata’s apprentice, called the Drafter, and the Reclusiarch, called the Deacon.

[finite compass]

I like it

[cosmic tulip]

I dig it

[bold halo]

I wouldn't stress about learning curve or build difficulty or w/e unless we're talking about introducing children, trust your friend will figure it out and just get them to pick up what they're going to be excited about

[floral herald]

yeah

The most important thing is to buy models you think are cool

[bold halo]

same advice I give people wanting to pick up an instrument

the best guitar is the one you're excited to pick up and play

[tardy vault]

speaking as a new player with fragile models: that's what the entire pot of extra glue is for

[untold swallow]

However, the Blades rarely deploy this way. The squads of initiates who successfully conduct the Communing of the Flesh are composed of a variety of specialists, who all deploy together in the pursuit of long-term objectives that see them range far from the Chapter Fleet. This operational structure is purposefully similar to that of the Deathwatch, and often whole squads are seconded to this organization to aid the Ordo Xenos and Inquisition at large. Only the House of the Fruit Tree once again bucks this trend, acting as the standing response force of the Chapter.

[floral herald]

I think all the kill teams are pretty good to start with fwiw

[balmy wave]

So I've ended up joining a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay group

I'm playing a middenlander, a Knight of the White Wolf to be specific

[untold swallow]

nice

[floral herald]

I think Warpcoven, Inquisition, and Void Dancers are probably most complicated?

Navy Breachers are kind hard

Also a rare mandatory 2 boxer

[cosmic tulip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/s/6zrNOQKJOP

[thin ibex]

I think probably the best "beginner" KTs are probably Kasrkin, Intercessor, Legionary, Veterans and Kommandos

[floral herald]

I think Angels of Death is up pretty high

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah he's not too interested in the imperium overall

Mostly Tau and Eldar so I recommended Kroot and Pathfinders

I've heard Vespid are hard to learn

[floral herald]

They’re weird but I don’t think in an especially hard to learn way

[cosmic tulip]

Oh ok!

I also showed him how auxiliaries can be implemented into baseline 40k

[thin ibex]

Mostly I think just play the ones you like, but I think kasrkin have a win more/ come back mechanic, anything in power armor is going to be more forgiving, veterans and commandos on the other hand just have numbers with good rounded specialists

Orks also, I think, have the benefit of a relatively obvious goal with most of their units (get into krumpin distance)

Tau Pathfinders are good, but rely on a skew play style, farstalkers are not forgiving in terms of conceal or positioning errors

You can easily lose most of your farstalkers to shooting with a misplay

[floral herald]

Oh I have a thing for this

https://youtube.com/watch?v=SND44q6uO10

I forget the list

Except that Angels of Death and Blades of Khaine were on it

[mild glen]

So, anybody else keep going over to the Horus Hersey section on webstores and making low hmmm sounds ever since the formal announcement of Emperor's Children in 2025?

[soft willow]

No, I'm waiting for cooler resculpts in 2025.

My current webstore obsession is staring at all the Forge World knights that are currently unavailable and hoping they're moving to plastic for the new book.

[pastel rampart]

I hope they bring back the old classic

the one, the only

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM RIDER

[soft willow]

The only Daemon Prince that I know of that GW published song lyrics about.

[lofty warren]

pLeasE

[soft willow]

Last seen getting his ass kicked by the White Scars though.

So we'll see.

[pastel rampart]

See it'd be real easy to bring him back that way if GW does what I'd hope they'd do: dual opposing primarch releases.

Fulgrim returns, so does Jaggy. And somewhere in that mess DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM RIDER makes his escape.

[mild glen]

Isn't Fulgrim actively being harassed by Corax, or am I thinking about Lorgar?

[uneven ember]

Lorgar is the one being chased by Raven Raven.

"Lorgar, why do you carry the autocannon at all times?" "Bird attacks." "I think you're getting carried away." "Not without a fight."

[upper canopy]

very much hoping Lorgar's lore update will have him just kick Corax's ass and kill this meme will say

[floral herald]

Man if EC get new bikers before mainline CSM…

I’m just gonna be happy and use them anyway tbh

[uneven ember]

I just like the pun.

[lofty warren]

I mean im pretty sure the bike kit is going to be a generic bike kit

Maybe with an EC buuld

That or bikers become an EC only thing but that would suck

[uneven ember]

(I'd say Corvus' real enemy should always be Konrad, as is always the case when two different kinds of goths are brought into contact.)

[upper canopy]

one thing I'm just really sick of is the constant meme zeitgeist of "The loyalist Primarchs are the coolest and baddest of asses and all the traitors are lame suckwards"

i've seen it for like 10 years

i'm tired

[floral herald]

I am curious how Lorgar is in M42

He’s lowkey the hardest power scaling person alive

[upper canopy]

He should be the most powerful Daemon Primarch yeah

make Be'lakor look like a pushover

[floral herald]

• fuller understanding of the nature of chaos than probably anyone
• powerful psyker and sorcerer
• primarch
• legit fluent in Enuncia - can use it without damage
• ascended daemon prince
  Dude has basically been in his Chaos Cultivation Tower for 10,000 years growing stronger

[bright dove]

Can't hear you over Angry Angron Yelling.

And Peter Turbo

[granite basin]

unironically i was fucking around a while back and found some 40k-as-mlp art, and the inherent dissonance is genuinely funny to me. trite? maybe. fun? yeag.

[granite basin]

unbothered. moisturized (with blood). in my Warp. flourishing

[bright dove]

Also, of course people think the Traitors are losers. They lost.

[granite basin]

they were not characterized evenly, but such is true of all of 40k, so. shrug

[brittle salmon]

Wait can you elaborate on the Enuncia bit

How are he and it related

[mental birch]

I'm like 90% sure some idiot has already written warhammer but cultivation online somejweee

[thin ibex]

didn't guilliman like take him to pound town

while 2v1 ing against lorgar and angron at the same time?

[upper canopy]

don't think so?

[thin ibex]

ah sort of it was during hte heresy tho not recently

but G man was in a 2v1 with lorgar and angron and walked away

[tired cairn]

He's not the strongest duelist. But he's undefeatable if you let him multitask

[thin ibex]

i actually wasnt under the impression that lorgar was a psyker but rather just an excellent speaker

but i just checked and see im wrong on that one

apparently kairos told Lorgar that he straight up just couldnt handle corax though

theme word bearers list, whats the word bearers thing? cultists and possessed?

[bright dove]

That is indeed their thing, including daemon summoning.

[lofty warren]

idk all the 40k fanfic on ao3 is stunningly uncreative

almost all

i should say

some is decent enough but the fandom is not as dynamic as one would hope

[upper canopy]

Kairos is also a huge liar bitch tbf

[bright dove]

Until they choose not to be.

Which is how they keep Huge Liar BItch as an identity.

[lofty warren]

highly tempted to buy a luminark of hysh

i have no use for it

but it goes hard

[bright dove]

It's also a good unit if you're going CoS

But also just cool.

[thin ibex]

Hmm I wasn't jazzed by my theme list but

[bright dove]

Artillery Laser platform is good shit.

[lofty warren]

i dont have any interest in AoS rn

[lofty warren]

honestly i might just get one to use in a theoretical minis-agnostic rank and flank

[bright dove]

Not terrible by the look of things.

[thin ibex]

Yeah I just feel like it's not super inspired, but I have tools to camp an objective with the accursed, can shove lanes with the possessed and warp talons, throw cultists onto the enemy guns etc

Gonna be making a ton of dark pacts

Does csm have any precision weapons?

[bright dove]

None that I know off the top of my head.

They're usually not terribly precision-based.

[thin ibex]

Yeah I figured, was toying with a alpha legion theme list idea

[thin ibex]

Ulthwe theme list

[desert jay]

The wrench in that plan is that Konrad's is one of the capital-D Dead ones

Died by prophecy

[junior robin]

been cleaning and found my night lord dark apostle 😌

to bad my army didnt make it to 10e

[junior robin]

also would love it if any DG players can suggest what I should add for 180pts as a legal substitute for a contemptor dreadnought

[brittle salmon]

Soul Grinder :)

180 on the dot

[junior robin]

was thinking more about something from the DG codex but I guess it could work. 😅 too bad the dread is not big enough to expy as one...

[brittle salmon]

I get it, but it's basically the only thing even remotely close to the Dread in that points ballpark

You could do a Helbrute? But then you have a 50 point gap

[junior robin]

how about the plagueburst crawler?

[brittle salmon]

It's fine, but I don't think it really cuts the mustard anti-vehicle wise, especially with the amount of points going into it

The mortar is nice, but eh

[cosmic tulip]

😭

[floral herald]

He’s been studying it, kind of alluded to in Pariah https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/K6S2BxiyZv

[cosmic tulip]

I do try to write what I find creative or new

Which is why I don’t do space marines

Currently working on the different guevesa of my sept

And their combat doctrines

Also the dark age troops allied with my tau but I haven’t even gotten to them yet

[tired cairn]

How does one even start the diplomatic overtures to get the Ecclesiarchy and Word Bearers to work together

[floral herald]

TBF they have a lot in common

[marsh haven]

Of course, Lorgar studying Enuncia for ten millennia still isn’t enough to let him overpower Corax, just enough to let him cower in safety in his sanctum while the ravens swarm outside

[paper bluff]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I did not called an actual GW plan

[floral herald]

We don't actually know that, this was actually how the conversation started if you read the backlog

[marsh haven]

Honestly i think that Lorgar’s kinda served his purpose as far as Chaos is concerned

He helped set the gravy train in motion but that’s all the Four thought he was good for

[tired cairn]

So did Protestants and Catholics during the Reformation lol

[marsh haven]

Which is why he spends most of his time “meditating”

Because Lorgar needs a higher power to tell him what to do and the Four aren’t interested in using a toy they have to share

[floral herald]

It's probably not that hard to find some Protestants and Catholics who are willing to talk and see if a soulless homunculus can speak super latin tbf

[tired cairn]

lol, fair

[floral herald]

I do think that's a really funny way to characterize the word bearers and imperial cult though

[marsh haven]

He’s not like Abbadon where there’s at least the tantalizing possibility of finally getting him to swear his soul in full, there’s no chase with Lorgar

[tired cairn]

Do the Word Bearers still worship the Emperor?

[marsh haven]

No

I mean maybe in a tongue in cheek mocking way?

Like they obviously do make use of insulting parodies of ecclesiarchy traditions

[thin ibex]

would be naratively interesting if they considered him a lesser part of a pantheon

but no i think they treat him as a lie

a false god who decieved them

the chaos gods are real

(you know, even tho big e told them over and over that he wasnt a god)

[tired cairn]

Well, he definitely did a lot of deceiving regardless

[floral herald]

They certainly don't worship the emperor but I think its kind of up in the air if they consider the emperor a divine being

Most CSM don't but the word bearers are their own thing

[marsh haven]

I wonder if they know the bit about the Emperor stealing power from the Chaos Gods

[paper bluff]

wait, if your haters are all in the chaos sauce think you are divine but you hate him are you still giving him chaos powers?

[floral herald]

And it's relatively common among chaos worshippers to consider the emperor an aspect of chaos in denial

[jaunty dawn]

I don't think the word bearers would overall stop considering the emperor divine

cause its like

[floral herald]

That's my feeling on it as well yeah

[jaunty dawn]

the point is not that he isn't a god, just not one worthy of worship

[marsh haven]

Its not like the Word Bearers have to be consistent

[floral herald]

Unless they're like "um, actually the Dark King was the god, and the Emperor failed, so he's just a husk of what could have been a god"

[marsh haven]

Good deal of them are barely lucid most likely

[jaunty dawn]

the word bearers do have to be relatively consistent cause if they don't their dark council dissapears them haha

[marsh haven]

Chaos making a soufflé of their brains

[floral herald]

Uh oh lol

Easy to errata at least

[jaunty dawn]

hm?

[floral herald]

GW forgot to put the Corpseman on the operative list

[jaunty dawn]

oh lol

[tired cairn]

lol

[jaunty dawn]

corpseman removed for pressing ceremonial reasons

[floral herald]

He's still got a datasheet but I guess they just missed him in the operative list

[tired cairn]

"I make corpses. I'm not a corpse!"

[jaunty dawn]

he just shows up

[tired cairn]

Maybe the warband started going to Stimms Anonymous and had to stop hanging out with him

[floral herald]

lmao

I think its cool how a ton of teams have medics but their rules are all a little different

Like this guy is mostly buffs

And she's just oops all healing

[jaunty dawn]

kasrkin may or may not be really good at healing haha

[pine matrix]

Do the Kommandos have a Dok? I'd be interested if they have healing rules

[floral herald]

They don't

They do have one of the higher on-board wound counts though

At IIRC 100ish

[upper canopy]

So question

what the hell is Eununcia

[thin ibex]

magic words

they're like... the language of creation

canonized in abnetts novels i think

my first encounter with it was in... ravenor?

iirc the king in yellow was big on it; but iirc the word bearers have beef with the king in yellow

[upper canopy]

I like how Abnett has his own sub-series of worldbuilding that exists exclusively in his novels

[tired cairn]

It's very Warhammer that people figure out the language of creation and the biggest use after binding demons is as a direct weapon

[floral herald]

Yeah the Abnettverse is real

[thin ibex]

the language is also used to do things like teleport, kill people, all sorts of stuff

normal mortals also inflict a bunch of self damage when they use it cause thy're not really meant t ohandle it

[lofty warren]

Oh no not you! Idk what u write but im sure its great

[cosmic tulip]

I’m working on my homebrew tau sept and their distinct guevesa regiments rn

Lots of shenanigans

[pulsar cairn]

They better have a unit who uses earth ducks as their symbol

Make them airbone troops

[cosmic tulip]

I might make guevesa kriegers lmao

I’ll probably do solar auxilla instead though

[pulsar cairn]

Those guys were cool

[cosmic tulip]

My Van Saar guys are proxied humans from a ship sent from the warp with an incomplete STC

They took a good look at the imperium and noped out

My old scale Cadians are former close combat shock troopers with heavy flak armor who revolted causing their entire planet to fall to the tau

The solar Auxilla guys will be guevesa with a STC that exclusively makes void armor variants

And volkite (but the STC has a will of its own, and takes a long while for volkite weapons, individualizing them for each soldier)

I’m so excited lol

I was asked if having a bunch of guevesa takes the spotlight away from playing tau as a multi species group, but I run every guevesa squad differently

One is fire warriors, two are breachers, and they supplement my existing fire warrior squadron and pathfinder kill team

Once I write everything down I’ll post it here

https://www.tumblr.com/nictanova/732737013700263936/guevesavre-lucas-bradford-in-xv-15?source=share

[jaunty dawn]

navy breacher proxy tau team 🤔

[thin ibex]

i wanna see what a stealth team's kt gimmick is

would be*

[tired cairn]

Being really annoying with conceal orders

Which is kind of what Kommmandoes do but for melee

[floral herald]

I lowkey think you can get most of the way to a stealthsuit team KT by proxying Phobos Strike

[cosmic tulip]

But yeah what do yall think?

I still haven’t gotten the solar auxillar but my plan is to remove the imperial iconography since I ran out of tau shoulder plates (so many shoulder plates)

[thin ibex]

i figure stealthsuit KT would be a Tau elite KT, which would be cool, since they're more heavily armored; but still have a focus on shooting thanks to burst cannons

[floral herald]

That's Phobos if you don't take Reivers :p

[thin ibex]

i thought phobos was more numbers than the formerly known as intercessors

[floral herald]

6 member team with all shooting operatives (except for Veteran) and concealment stuff

[thin ibex]

you can also take the incursor options right? they got twin knives

[floral herald]

Actually Veteran is still a shooting operative he just has better melee

[floral herald]

Everyone gets a bolt carbine

I think knives are team equipment now

[thin ibex]

ohh

[floral herald]

Oh yep you can just give them all better knives

[thin ibex]

eeenchresting

but yeah id prolly want some sort of gimmick that is unique and not just phobos

obviously has to be something about stealth

but other than that big shrug

[floral herald]

I think the only other Elite stealth focused team is Nemesis Claw and I don't think they'd work that well lol

[bold halo]

all the stealth talk is really making me wish I could get my striking scorpions on the table

[floral herald]

If you're up for TTS stuff I would be down for a game

I've been putting together Phobos but I've not had a chance to play them

[bold halo]

gotta get that reinstalled and remember how the controls work but I might take you up on that

[floral herald]

Kinda same

I got a new computer and never reinstalled it

[bold halo]

going right back to the days of only getting to play 40k on vassal lol

[floral herald]

I like KT on TTS a lot more than 40k on TTS

It's got pretty nice automation and I find it way easier to manage when there's like 20 models max haha

[bold halo]

yeah I'd never try to play 40k on TTS, feels like it'd be way too fiddly with that many minis

I liked x-wing a lot on TTS though, again really solid automation

[floral herald]

I haven't tried that but seems like a game which would lend itself nicely to TTS

[bold halo]

almost ran better that way than irl

[cosmic tulip]

I think I can just like

Clip off a lot of the banners and imperial heraldry

[pulsar cairn]

Do we know what the ultramar auxilia looks like?

[floral herald]

There's like 1 official art piece

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/3/3f/AuxiliaSoldier.jpg

[untold swallow]

A perhaps odd question

are there any chapters notably expert in the use of melta weaponry?