It would fit
#Warhammer and Such
finite compass
Also Ferus Manus's hammer
untold swallow
Aaaaalso fair
finite compass
That is now the property of the Blood Ravens
untold swallow
And Perturabo's
wild fog
Russ uses a sword and spear I thought
untold swallow
whole fucking body, honestly
untold swallow
Huh there's more variety than I thought
finite compass
Curze had lightning claws
Lorgar had a big mace
Angron had his two fuckoff huge chainaxes
wild fog
Corvus also claws.
untold swallow
can ya tell how much I give a shit about Primarchs beyond Mah Boi the Big Jonson?
finite compass
Alpharius has a spear, IIRC
wild fog
Magnus has a staff because you know.
nerd
untold swallow
Fulgri- is shot by a Scars Eliminator
finite compass
Khan has a scimitar/tulwar thing
untold swallow
I think it may be less parallel more rival
In which case Big J definitely has Big F
Russ has Clifford
junior robin
he got a opposite in Mortarion (fast vehicles vs slow walking) 
wild fog
Do Fulgrim and Jaggy ever interact?
untold swallow
Corvus has Kurze?
wild fog
Yeah Morty is closer
untold swallow
Do Fulgrim and Jaggy ever interact?
I think their interaction is maybe their most famous interaction for both characters
Maybe second most famous in the case of Fulgrim
finite compass
Corvus and Curze have similar schticks and loadouts
wild fog
I know what you're referring to
finite compass
But Corvus's major hate-on is for Lorgar
wild fog
"Strange things with your bike"
untold swallow
"Strange things with your ships" "Strange things to your warriors" "I feel like I would beat you" "lmao no"
wild fog
But there are way more Mortarian and Jaghatai beef
finite compass
But yeah, Corvus and Curze definitely interacted.
More than once
And then Curze stopped Corvus from killing Lorgar
untold swallow
I think Lorgar and Big G are the main rivals for one another
finite compass
Which he then immediately regretted when he saw what happened to the Gal Vorbak
wild fog
Curze also famously beefed with Vulkan
untold swallow
One a scion of the Imperial Truth, the other the author of the Imperial Creed
finite compass
Curze also famously beefed with Vulkan
And Lion
untold swallow
And then
finite compass
And Big G
untold swallow
Dorn and Horus
granite basin
Longer thought-
The way I tend to think of 40k is more in line with TTS or 1e Rogue Trader. It can be taken seriously, but fundamentally it's a bullshit universe that is comically awful and you're usually playing, at best, goons of the Anglican Space Nazis.
It's incredibly silly in a grim way, and like. I don't adhere to canon in the sense that I hardly know shit about the canon and I turn what is supposed to be incredibly serious into stupid mundane nonsense. I know to some degree 40k's identity is being Excessive in all things, but also I like the approach of painting the Imperium as far less glorious, beautiful or competent than it thinks it is.
untold swallow
Do I even need to fucking say anything
finite compass
Eh
granite basin
Shorter thought-
finite compass
Dorn and Perty are pretty black-and-white as far as primarch rivalries go
untold swallow
Though Dorn and Horus are less active beef more
"I am going to defend Terra"
"Fuck you, I'm gonna destroy it."
"Say less."
wild fog
Horus, paradoxically wasn't involved in most of the Siege
untold swallow
Didn't Perty beat Fulgrim fucking black and blue once?
finite compass
Yes
granite basin
Good ol Peter Turbo
wild fog
People fuck around and find out with Perturabo A LOT
granite basin
Is that not the same motherfucker who strapped multiple miniguns to his arm?
untold swallow
YES HE IS
finite compass
When you're so unbelievably laughably petty that it circles back around into being likeable...Because you're the only competent one.
untold swallow
Perturabo should have led the siege etc etc
finite compass
also just because I'm Marge Simpson with the potato with it
(I think it's neat)
female World Eater
granite basin
Why on Earth would you ever provoke someone who bolted a fucking aircraft gun into a wrist mounted armament
wild fog
Because admittedly he is a giant jerk
granite basin
:0
That is lovely
finite compass
He's also the guy who decimated his legion not out of any failure, but because they weren't the most successful out of all 20.
finite compass
wtf are those cable things called btw lmao
Butcher's Nails
granite basin
No, the Nails are worse
Exponentially so
finite compass
Head Tubes are a long and storied 40k aesthetic tradition
wild fog
Which are also different from Peter's cables
finite compass
But the Butcher's Nails are World Eaters specific
wild fog
There are a lot of head cables
untold swallow
so many varieties of mechanical tentacle
I do know what the Butchers' Nails are
I didn't know they were like
flexible
I thought they were like
fuckin lobotomy nails lmao
wild fog
"Maybe if we all get lobomoties daddy Angron will love us"
wild fog
Smash cut to Angron "You IDIOTS"
untold swallow
OH THAT'S WHAT THOSE ARE
finite compass
granite basin
Head with metal cable is a venerable tradition
Head with metal cable that induces immeasurable agony when not in frothing anger is... Less of a tradition
untold swallow
I thought those were your garden variety 40k head cables
finite compass
It's specifically "This is gonna boost your aggression, reaction time, and also give you a massive feel-good boost when you kill shit, while also giving you debilitating pain when you're NOT killing shit."
mild glen
Their "first exposure to Nocturne's Unique radiation" after the gene-seed is implanted, I believe it the full lore cruft.
wild fog
It's implied that it's the only way Angron gets the equivalent of REM sleep
finite compass
granite basin
Why does that look like David Tennant in a costume
finite compass
It kind of does.
Even if he sounds like Steve Blum on 30 packs of cigarrettes and gargling bleach in said trailer
desert jay
The trailer does go incredibly hard tho
untold swallow
It do go hard as fuck
I also love that it's lowkey a trailer for two guys I like to call Guy From Trailer and Other Guy From Trailer
Who also both go incredibly hard
desert jay
I also do dig the Sons of Horus color scheme, it's very coppery
untold swallow
it is a nice scheme
If I played HH I'd definitely play them
not least of which because I could field Little Horus
which is
deeply funny
untold swallow
You know what I think my character would do and find deeply ironic
emblazon their Inquisitor master's ordo sigil on her right pauldron
And giggle about it
orchid venture
primaris marines circa 1995 :V
junior robin
POV: you forgot to pay the imperial tithe
orchid venture
mental birch
jaunty dawn
primaris marines circa 1995 :V
oh damn I love this take on mk7 phobos armour
orchid venture
the incursor version will have beakie helmets :3
jaunty dawn
yesssss
pulsar cairn
are first born not being made anymore?
I ask cause a lot of firstborn seem to dislike primaris
jaunty dawn
I think chapters just use whatever gene seed they have available, i.e if they have a limited amount of the primaris bonus organs then they're still gonna keep making firstborn. that and not all chapters have actually been contacted in 'present day'
chapters that have enough supplies to be rubricing firstborn probably aren't making much more firstborn though
balmy wave
You mean Konrad Curze, or the guy in the pic, Jago Sevatarion?
pastel rampart
Sevatar.
Who may or may not be dead depending on how much you believe what was hinted at in Void Hunter.
desert jay
Ye, Curze survived the Heresy but was later hunted down and killed by an Imperial Assassin
spice flicker
Just a fun little thought experiment I did of fitting as many chapters masters with bodyguards in a 2000 points army. Idk if this is any good or not but hey it's an interesting army and what do you think?
uneven ember
Ye, Curze survived the Heresy but was later hunted down and killed by an Imperia...
Because he was fundamentally an extended Heart of Darkness/ Apocalypse Now reference
spice flicker
He was also a major fatalist (one of his biggest flaws) and saw that it would eventually happen as well as all the pain and misery he would cause in the future and just surrendered to what he thought would be his fate.
spice flicker
Just a fun little thought experiment I did of fitting as many chapters masters w...
But yeah what i can tell with this fluff list I made is that i have plenty to melee output but will be a little slow and might struggle against some vehicles at range.
untold swallow
So people still have Warp transport when on the wrong side of the Eye of Terror, right?
Is it just
absurdly more dangerous than it already is?
floral herald
Yeah you just need to use computed jumps not navigated jumps
Which are a lot slower even with a navigator
untold swallow
gooootcha
floral herald
It's 40k so the numbers are fake but a navigated warp jump with a decent view of the Astronomicon covers about 5000 LY in a week and its iirc 500 or 50 ly for the same amount of time via a computed or astronomiconless jump
Whoops its 5 lol
Yeah its slow as hell comparatively
untold swallow
big oof
floral herald
One of the big problems in the Imperium Nihilus is that the black legion and the other chaos forces can still use navigated jumps thanks to daemonic pacts and favor so they can run rings around the Imperial Navy with literally 1000x the strategic speed
tired cairn
🤔 are calculated jumps safer per jump or per LY
floral herald
Though it's also safer
For the Imperium its not - the Leagues also use computed jumps and they're really good at them
untold swallow
I'm just trying to find out what the level of desperation is basically
tired cairn
Oh, ok that makes sense
floral herald
for the Imperium at least navigated jumps are safer because it means less time in the warp
untold swallow
To figure out if 'Xanthist Inquisitor consults Man of Iron, Man of Iron tells him one of the ways to mimic the Astronomican is to ritually sacrifice a planet to a Navigator, Xanthist Inquisitor proceeds to try' is a reasonably desperate action
floral herald
Oh I'd be real real careful with something like that lol
The last time someone tried to make a knockoff astronomicon they caught a bad case of the Angrons :p
floral herald
Oh yeah I just mean AoO Angron has a pretty similar setup https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Choral_Engine
Not the same but a similar attempt to make a backup astronomicon for the IN
untold swallow
I will point out it's definitely a worse idea than the Engine actually lmao
floral herald
Yeah 100%
untold swallow
I do like the idea that the Man of Iron knows a bunch of better solutions
But is, understandably
A bitter, petty fuck about their people's destruction
tired cairn
I was going to say, the Man of Iron is definitely trolling the Inquisitor
What was that thing that was on Ultramar during the Horus Heresy?
floral herald
The poisoning of Calth?
wild fog
The thing about Inquisitors is you don't need to be reasonable. Inquisitors are marinating in crazy and everything gets high stakes.
There is an absolutely an Inquisitor out there dumb enough and rogue enough to try.
Also, again, Xanthist, reasonable is off the table
They look at the swirling utter chaos and have evidence of all the insanely powerful things out in the Warp and they're like "I bet I can control that."
floral herald
Oh the Pharos Device
untold swallow
tfw you're irl getting tempted by the Ruinous Powers cuz the expanded list of Maleficarum spells is fucking cool
hard whale
tzeentch congratulates itself on another easy win
untold swallow
lmao
finite compass
You mean Konrad Curze, or the guy in the pic, Jago Sevatarion?
Sevatar
Curze did survive the Heresy. He died during the Scouring.
hybrid oyster
The inquisition is great because 90% of the inquisition's problems are caused by the inquisition.
finite compass
The inquisition is great because 90% of the inquisition's problems are caused by...
This also applies to the Imperium as a whole, I think. 😛
thin ibex
oh i missed a lot of chatting lol
i finally got mostly set up for tts 40k again, and tst built some armies
hybrid oyster
My favorites are the ordos originatus and redactus. Because one is looking to know everything and one is looking to go redact and censor everything.
thin ibex
is kauyon meant to be played as a gunline or as a sort of "play super conservatively and hide your units as much as possible"?
wild fog
The latter I think, since it doesn't come online until turn 3
untold swallow
Huh, I just noticed my marine is physically weaker than most Marines
Fun
'weaker than most marines' still equates to Str, Tgh, and Ag 4 but
ya know
finite compass
paper bluff
untold swallow
"And how am I not, psyker?"
"I can feel it in you. The pain, that rage, that *fear*. What we all have."
She cocked her head.
"You've been in a black raft, just like me. Had that damned *witch* stare at you, decide if she thought you should be forced out an airlock."
"What of it?" She squeezes further, causing the man to wriggle and grasp at her ceramite-strong fingers.
"You-" a long, arduous creaking of armor, viscera, and bone, "You even were raised as an Angel at the end of it you *karking* fool and you-"
"SPEAK PLAINLY, INSECT!"
"You *ran* as fast as you could underneath that blanket, that *shroud* of night..." The psyker was close to expiring, uttering his very, very last, "To hide from the light of the Emperor just how *craven* you truly a-"
A brutal crunch. A limply dropped corpse. Tears flowing from angered eyes, afire with the Warp.```
untold swallow
ooo seraphon
untold swallow
Ah
untold swallow
lol
bold halo
desaturated yellow/cream belly would work well
let the green pop while still breaking it up a bit
jaunty dawn
just noticed the sniper dude has a third eye
hybrid oyster
Regular scions have a varient head with that
pulsar cairn
do they usually ignore planets with necrons or something?
south axle
Do we know if anyone has done like a resin stl for the missing nips of the new BA stuff??
south axle
Just nips, to glue on the new BA
finite compass
do they usually ignore planets with necrons or something?
Yes. That's the implication.
jaunty dawn
I don't think anyone has made an stl of a tiny half sphere, no
pulsar cairn
Yes. That's the implication.
oh yeah that's worse
finite compass
What's EVEN WORSE
Is that in Oldcron lore the thing they were specifically avoiding was the Outsider
IE, the stupidly-fuck-you-OP C'tan of sheer reality-sundering insanity that hadn't woken up yet.
floral herald
Just nips, to glue on the new BA
Just use a bit of putty for something like that imo
finite compass
oh jeeze, I found even more
pulsar cairn
IE, the stupidly-fuck-you-OP C'tan of sheer reality-sundering insanity that hadn...
that thing is not under the control of the necrons?
finite compass
IDK. I'm not that versed in Newcron lore.
jaunty dawn
good way to do rivets (nips) is you can get tiny beads and drill a hole to set them in
pastel rampart
Nips could be done with tiny resin dots too.
finite compass
But looking up the old 3e stuff.
south axle
I'm not buying BA, it's more a fun/weird thought I got looking at the Sunday Preview
finite compass
The object causing Hive Fleet Leviathan to drastically alter course was
``
Their auguries reveal a spherical object of indeterminate origins and nature at the centerpoint. For this object to register via reflected light alone indicates either great size (over 32,000,000 Terran dimensions) or an albedo range approaching infinit``
The necrons have some really really cool models
finite compass
Or 32 million AU
hybrid oyster
The void dragon is just amazing
finite compass
Or a radius 128 times that of the largest known star.
100 times the diameter of the Sol System
floral herald
AU aren’t terran dimensions
finite compass
Well what would you think it is then?
floral herald
32 million earth-diameters
finite compass
still
floral herald
Or about 2800 AU
finite compass
And at least according to random googling
uneven ember
Yes. That's the implication.
"Tyranids ignore Necron worlds" always seemed like a bizarre lore choice to me
This is 40K we shouldn't be making up reasons for factions to not fight
pulsar cairn
what's au?
finite compass
Astronomical Unit
pulsar cairn
oh
jaunty dawn
1 au is the distance betwen the earth and the sun
finite compass
The distance between Earth and the Sun
floral herald
It’s the distance between the earth and the sun
finite compass
But at least according to random googling, all the post-retcon stuff about the Outsider seems to suggest it might not have been sharded
jaunty dawn
yeah I don't think anything about the outsider stuff really changed
uneven ember
It's actually been redefined in 2012 to 499 light seconds or 149,597,870,700 meters
For simplicity's sake
floral herald
That’s likely I think, there’s been almost nothing new about the Outsider
balmy wave
It's actually been redefined in 2012 to 499 light seconds or 149,597,870,700 met...
what's that in freedom units? /j
tired cairn
Was it the average distance between the earth and the sun before the change?
Also I'm annoyed they didn't make it 500ls lol
wild fog
C'tan in general are downplayed
jaunty dawn
various attempts at measuring such yeah
and then they figured out oh no we're never gonna get the right number and changing it every time is silly so they fixed it
tired cairn
That's pretty sensible
finite compass
Because orbital distance fluctuates.
floral herald
It’s a really intensely accurate definition for a unit which is mostly gonna be used for essentially whole number estimates haha
pulsar cairn
If ctan were still around
Ya think people would worship them?
Like they still exist i know but they arent really players in thr galaxy
jaunty dawn
ad mech!
wild fog
C'tan really weren't anything to worship until the Necrons gave them bodies
finite compass
C'tan might enjoy it do to vanity, but they aren't getting anything really tangible out of it, beyond amusement.
Unlike, say, the Chaos Gods who are literally empowered by it
On that note, there was a short story about an expedition to some xenos ruins, and the story of their 'god' (the Deciever) who taught them to be the strongest, and gave them undying guardians for if they ever needed their protection
Of course, if they DID need their protection, that means they failed the test of strength, and the Necrons would destroy them.
And this cycle had repeated multiple times
And it was outright stated that they were set up for failure by the Deciever because he found this amusing.
That's the kind of deity the C'tan are
pulsar cairn
so probably but u aint getting shit from worshiping them cause they dont really need you
ebon forge
https://x.com/Eliphusz/status/1840366351593963998?t=QXwMav-5FVFo8GGdiE__Gg&s=19 Brothers, Calgar is on holydays, all hail his temporary replacement
Twitter
uneven ember
And it was outright stated that they were set up for failure by the Deciever bec...
I mean
It's a little funny
bright dove
Calgar is so mad there.
paper bluff
The C'tan wanted the Necron's souls and an army of obedient servants.
Which I have now just realized brings up an interesting point about necron souls
Like, the warp is anathema to the C'tan and you don't hear about c'tan eating sould now.
Either there was something about the shattering of the c'tan that stops them from eating souls now or there was something special about the necron soul
Also, yeah the c'tan were star vampires and subsided on the energy of stars till the necrons gave them bodies. So there's some sort of digestion process. The c'tan eat the whole of the necron race's souls but they would still digest that for some time. Did the c'tan use the soul energy to beat the old ones? Like all of it?
finite compass
I think it was more the souls gave them a boost, and now they also had an entire species worth of undead terminator robots to throw at the Old Ones.
uneven ember
I also kinda feel like focusing on the "souls" thing with the c'tan would make for a bit more overlap with the Ruinous Powers than the writers would like
untold swallow
my partner who's not into 40k has discovered cherubim
uneven ember
Cherubs are great.
Too much 40K stuff looks all grand and sweeping, instead of looking rotting and vaguely gross. Cherubs help keep things looking gross
bright dove
Threw together a little Cities of Sigmar army.
Black Ark Fleetmaster - 110 pts
Black Ark Corsairs - 120 pts
Dark Riders - 150 pts
Freeguild Marshall and Relic Envoy (General, Brazier of Holy Flame) - 130 pts
Fusil-Major on Ogor Warhulk (Master of Ballistics) - 180 pts
Luminark of Hysh - 250 pts
Freeguild Fusiliers - 120 pts
Cogsmith - 130 pts
Gyrocopter - 160 pts
Gyrobomber - 180 pts
Alchemite Warforger - 110 pts
Freeguild Fusiliers - 120 pts
Freeguild Steelhelms - 100 pts
Ironweld Great Cannon - 130 pts
Total Points: 1990/2000```The plan? Shoot.
remote wharf
Your casting the high level spell "lead shot".
past sphinx
i need to just run dark heresy
everything i run with rogue trader ends up as horror anyway
rocky harness
60% of Dark Herasy games start as Rouge Trader 😂
solemn gull
Why do you say that? All of my dark heresy games start with scrappy gangers and moderately literate scribes.
thin ibex
Could always run Imperium maledictum, I'm pretty sure you always start as pretty close to a regular dude associated with a larger faction
floral herald
I think it’s because a lot of people start off Rogue Trader for the compelling premise but later move to DH because RT is mechanically a messsss
thin ibex
Oh cyan, what's the most number of people you could comfortably run for WanG?
floral herald
I wouldn’t go above 5 personally
thin ibex
Hmm OK ty
floral herald
I also say this about most games
untold swallow
Is there a chapter that's notable for having lone operatives join an inquisitor?
or is that just 'a Deathwatch marine that drew the short straw'
It seems that is the answer yes lmao
thin ibex
space marines strike me as rarely being solos
untold swallow
prolly yeah
Tho I have come up with a pair who are both solos accompanying the same Inquisitor now
A renegade Space Wolf Librarian who's also the Inquisitor's Sorcerer-in-Residence but shhhhh
And a Kill-Marine
pastel rampart
Exorcists would be one of the few that come to mind that'd have a lone operative join an inquisitor.
untold swallow
oooooooo that's actually a good shout
sadly they do not have any rules in Wrath and Glory but I can do the glorious thing of making them up lmao
pastel rampart
That or Red Hunters.
floral herald
Red Hunters are kinda the Inquisition Chapter yeah
Though space marines don’t generally lend out marines on anything but a short term basis
thin ibex
think the minotaurs would lend an inquisitor a marine?
untold swallow
I feel like a Kill-Marine from DW wouldn't be unreasonable as a retinue member
This Kill-Marine just so happens to have been an Exorcist
The Watch-Captain is very fucking suspicious of this Inquisitor
thin ibex
i think a kill marine could work, if part of the background is that its a temporary arrangement; kill marines generally have a specific objective right?
untold swallow
Kill-Marines do generally have objectives
jaunty dawn
but other than that they almost exclusively deploy at full strength
untold swallow
The objective on paper could be 'establish contact with xyz on planet we know Inquisitor is heading to'
The objective in reality being 'yo, keep an eye on this creepy Xanthist fuck, aye?'
floral herald
think the minotaurs would lend an inquisitor a marine?
I think they’d be less likely to on the whole, being very secretive and loyal to another high imperial institution
jaunty dawn
but yeah overall I wouldn't worry too much about being 'reasonable' with a retinue
rocky harness
Don't they always show up at chapter strength too? Or am I miss remembering.
jaunty dawn
just be indulgent abt it
rocky harness
I belive the mantis warriors would agree
I could see the Raptors loaning out a kill marine.
untold swallow
well it wouldn't be the Raptors
it'd be a Raptor seconded to the Deathwatch
At which point it'd be Deathwatch doing the lending
rocky harness
Well at that point t it's whoever gets assigned, so home chapter wouldn't matter too much. I thought you were asking about chapters that would lend a marine.
untold swallow
I was, then came to the conclusion that there wasn't really a chapter that did that, then remembered kill-marines existed
rocky harness
Ah
untold swallow
I decided that the Kill-Marine is gonna just so happen to be from the Exorcists cuz I think they're cool
rocky harness
It's really old lore, but there was also inquisitor Ravonor who just, requisitions a marine for a few years.
untold swallow
And also this is the same retinue with a renegade Space Wolf librarian
untold swallow
It's really old lore, but there was also inquisitor Ravonor who just, requisitio...
This is theoretically what is happening with the Wolf, but there is no love lost between her and her chapter lmao
rocky harness
When you say renegade?
untold swallow
Well
I honestly don't know if I mean it in the sense the lore means it when it says "Renegade Space Marine"
I mean it in the sense of 'telling her chapter they're fucking stupid and peacing out, with them all flipping each other off as she leaves to join the Inquisitor'
thin ibex
Honestly if anyone would have a renegade space marine in their retinue, it'd be an Inquisitor
untold swallow
rocky harness
Okay, so more Wolf Priest who hates dogs, and less, the big blue guy has a point?
untold swallow
psyker rejecting the role of rune priest, aye
also the hates dogs is accidentally poignant
during her Trial of Morkai she got ambushed by a wulfen and pack of fenris wolves
killed them all except the last which she psychically dominated on instinct because 'fuck this stupid fucking planet that wants to kill me at literally every opportunity'
thin ibex
Tangential, but now I'm thinking about a renegade marine who pretends to be a runty ogryn because they're pride doesn't stop them from the deception
Has non standard custom power armor
That they put on when they don't need to be pretending
rocky harness
Why do I want to say there is a story where some Alpha Legion do that?
untold swallow
Also I realized that technically by RAW advanced character creation rules
You can make a psyker ogryn
in Wrath and Glory
floral herald
There’s a book with one of them even
thin ibex
psyker ogryns were made to try and battlefield assassinate horus or something right?
floral herald
No that’s something else I think
There’s a novel with a Psyker Ogryn is what I was thinking of
ebon forge
https://youtu.be/f9F8esNsz84?si=PbgOuheBEzhuSpSR
Totally not an chaos sorcerer
pulsar cairn
sus
solemn gull
Is there a chapter that's notable for having lone operatives join an inquisitor?
Silver serpents
untold swallow
Totally not an chaos sorcerer
He's a member of the Mechanicum at Tier 2, I doubt he's already a sorcerer lmao
solemn gull
Sometimes mechanicus just look like that
thin ibex
a kroot
south axle
Washed up arbites?
untold swallow
Washed up arbites sounds deeply funny
still warren
A Jokaero
thin ibex
hell yeah
spice flicker
Is it explicit that aircraft can't hold objectives or is it just because of the 0 OC? Have a player in my crusade interested in aircraft and found a way to give it 1 OC and i was curious if that means the aircraft can now hold/take objectives?
solemn gull
Who else should I put in this Inquisitor's retinue...
You always need a scribe that’s been passed down by 5 different inquisitors. The type that spits sand when they talk and probably knew Big E personally.
untold swallow
You always need a scribe that’s been passed down by 5 different inquisitors. The...
Sage stooge, definitely
untold swallow
Blood Ravens
ebon forge
For his jovial attitude I am almost saying
Space Wolfs
untold swallow
I feel like they'd hate him tbh lol
ebon forge
He would be a fun Inquisitor
wintry mist
Having been alive for untold lifetimes, shortly after the Battle of Iwo Jima he was recruited by the Cabal and worked as an assassin throughout history. His targets included those the Cabal considered good men who needed to die, among them "the Good Man" in Memphis
untold swallow
What the fuck GW
wintry mist
nd "the Brother" a thousand years later in the City of Angels
I know it says a thousand years later but like... it's a clear reference
when ur that old you get ur times muddled up
also robert kennedy was killed for supporting arms deals with israel
what did the cabal mean by this
solemn gull
He would be a fun Inquisitor
JJBA but it’s an inquisitor vs some sort of warp entity
Wait The All Guardsman Party fits the structure of JJBA
ebon forge
They need a Inquisitor or a Rogue Trader to give them freedom to move around
The Speed Wagon foundation could be the Rogue Trader's family
cosmic tulip
> Having been alive for untold lifetimes, shortly after the Battle of Iwo Jima h...
Why
wintry mist
black library is tone deaf
ebon forge
Honestly, we need more stories like the PS2 game Fire Warrior, where you are a T'au and the first enemy IS the Imperium
wintry mist
naturally it sucks
cosmic tulip
I always have to fight my friends about the tau are legit not as bad as the imperium
floral herald
There’s a long running trend in HH novels of characters who are not reliable narrators making links with actual historical figures
thin ibex
(We need more Tau game, totally not biased)
cosmic tulip
“But the caste system” SHUT UP
floral herald
In general it’s not something which is that credible
ebon forge
More so, games /narrative to show how horrible the imperium is from an outside perspective
cosmic tulip
in my mind it’s not fair my friends get to call me the silly blueberry faction when we play games lmao
floral herald
It’s similar to Chaos Juice Hallucinations Horus saying that Alexander the Great was the GEOM
cosmic tulip
I’m trying to make the world better through giant robots
What are the necrons doing?
ebon forge
Like-
Imagine you need todefend likeable characters, but they are killed by an Inquisitor/Space Marine because htey are "Xeno Scums"
thin ibex
im a tau main, i just tend to not particularly be fond of the "Tau are just the good guys" takes
wintry mist
Tau are evil in all other settings
cosmic tulip
I liked the grimdark of tau being a bright spot in an awful universe
wintry mist
like they are bad guys on par with the covenant
cosmic tulip
That alone could have a ton of nuance if done right
But they got muddied and now they’re.. a mess
wintry mist
but "is like the covenant" is actually not that bad compared to the rest of 40k
thin ibex
I often recline into the "Better than the imperium? Yes. Good? No."
cosmic tulip
My favorite Tau book is Broken Sword
I tried to get my Necron friend to read it but he said it reeked of propoganda
And I was like
floral herald
in my mind it’s not fair my friends get to call me the silly blueberry faction w...
I mean you get to call them barbarian corpse booklickers I think that might just be banter
cosmic tulip
Dude. That’s not the point I was trying to show you.
He shills necrons because “at least we don’t need a caste system”
Homeboy. You have no souls.
thin ibex
incidentally, the Tau have a well oiled and incredibly active propaganda system that is in every aspect of tau life
cosmic tulip
I don’t really trash talk anyone when I play games
Because I’m too focused on not getting the shit kicked out of me
ebon forge
He shills necrons because “at least we don’t need a caste system”
THEY ARE LITERALLY A MONARCHY
cosmic tulip
(I’m not very good at warhammer)
cosmic tulip
THEY ARE LITERALLY A MONARCHY
YEAH LMAO
thin ibex
Necrons have a social hierarchy that kinda makes everyone else's look silly by comparison; in that their lowest citizens are reduced to effectively automatons in service to the mostly lucid ruling class
floral herald
The necrons do have a caste system
cosmic tulip
The tau caste system also is weird
Cities have councils of multiple species working with an elected ethereal leader
thin ibex
Tau's caste system isn't even directly hierarchal, its mostly flat except for ethereals
floral herald
Necrons have a social hierarchy that kinda makes everyone else's look silly by c...
Yeah broadly speaking the higher your social class the more qualia you have
cosmic tulip
Client races aren’t a part of the system and have upward mobility (which I was told is “propoganda”)
I don’t really like talking about Warhammer with people anymore because it devolves into arguing
thin ibex
It's just that the tau castes have socially and lawfully enforced role restrictions between castes, they just dont have social superiority or material advantage between the castes
cosmic tulip
Yeah
It’s nowhere near as stupid as the meme of “can be killed for having a hobby” though
ebon forge
I think T'au is one of the most 40k stuf that got bastardised by memes
ebon forge
I don’t really like talking about Warhammer with people anymore because it devol...
Tell me of your favorite rippah then :3
thin ibex
I do think that client species are generally second class citizens to Tau proper, but by no means does that mean they are given a shitty quality of life or opportunity
cosmic tulip
Tell me of your favorite rippah then :3
Bottom left is cool!
cosmic tulip
I do think that client species are generally second class citizens to Tau proper...
I tried to explain this
It.. did not go over well
“Of course they’d have select few who are presented as the epitome of their species! It’s propoganda!”
sigh
Read Broken Sword and Voice of Experience
(Excellent books nonetheless)
thin ibex
i mean tau propaganda WILL cherry pick the best situations they can for water caste purposes, but also its not just propaganda
since everyone is always being recorded n stuff
ebon forge
There is also the renegade Taus
ebon forge
Bottom left is cool!
yeee
I like this one
I have to get the courage to paint it
cosmic tulip
The opening of VoE is a water caste guy asking his friend what his favorite part about living in the empire is
The guevesa says clean water
Like that’s not even propoganda
That’s profoundly genuine
cosmic tulip
Pro-tau propoganda
ebon forge
MY MAN, BABY FURNACES
ebon forge
Pro-tau propoganda
BUT FOR WHAT END
THey are not communists, we have the tau rebels (Farsight) that easily showns how horrible the Cast system is, and that is not a out-of-universe secret
thin ibex
yeah, a guevesa might live a relatively spartan lifestyle, but they'll have accomodation, clean food and water, clothes, and purpose. What the water caste will do though is find the one most enthused about it and best looking, record them doing their labor and then use editing and propaganda to push that even further
cosmic tulip
But yeah arguing about Warhammer is difficult also because I’m of the mind that if it was just a little more bright like AoS all these pointless discussions bout how bleak shit is would be less important
For me if 40k was just a little more hopeful I’d adore it even more
It has a great asthetic
thin ibex
to be fair, Farisht Enclanves have not fully deposed the caste system, what they've done is reduce the taboo of cross training and intermingling of skillsets
jaunty dawn
the castes are also distinct cultures with their own cultural intertia so
wintry mist
they allowed cross training and caste transitioning because they were literally made up of like 95% fire warriors and needed to diversify
thin ibex
a lot of identity sits in the tau caste system, even farsight enclaves cleaves to them now; just not to the degree of the greater tau empire
wintry mist
they allowed cross training and caste transitioning because they were literally ...
there was no ideological or ethical considerations taken to reduce the impact of the caste system, it was purely pragmatic
hybrid oyster
wintry mist
lots of the water caste in the farsight enclaves are unhappy that they are led by a fire caste
thin ibex
that is another nuance to things though, the tau empire does a lot of things better, and the farsight enclaves are a splinter militay junta for ideological reasons; but its also not just "The Tau except doing none of the things the Tau are bad for"
They have their own issues, but benefit from being relatively small and isolationist
wintry mist
yea like, the farsight enclaves are even more militarised than the regular tau empire
thin ibex
The closest equivalent in the imperium to the enclaves is cadia before it broke imo
wintry mist
because they have to be because every 10 years there is yet another existential threat
cosmic tulip
I feel like the main thing is that uh
dense idol
to me, any discussion of the moral integrity of the t'au kind of falls flat when you place them in the context of their setting
cosmic tulip
A lot of Warhammer fans won’t read the extra lore snippits
ebon forge
But yeah arguing about Warhammer is difficult also because I’m of the mind that ...
I thin kthe beauty (That needs to be explored more and less bolter porn) is in that.
People still tries to cling to hope, even the people you least expect
cosmic tulip
I thin kthe beauty (That needs to be explored more and less bolter porn) is in t...
Yeah half of why I got into tau and eldar is rage against the dying of the light
ebon forge
Like, in this reading of Genefather, Cawl openly says that, he legitimacy have Hope for a brighter future for humanity
cosmic tulip
Aos is very much “shits fucked let’s fix it” and i adore it
wintry mist
eldar are just dicks smh
cosmic tulip
If 40k was like that.. I’d like it more
dense idol
it's kind of like taking a vegetarian to a steakhouse and arguing over whether the smoked salmon technically counts for half an hour
cosmic tulip
eldar are just dicks smh
Compared to the monstrous nature of humanity idk
It’s really just a toss up
solemn gull
But scrble! I want everyone in 40k to die horribly!
thin ibex
I do legitimately think the Tau are better than the imperium, I just so often bump into "They're the only good guys in the setting" and then it goes deeper to the "The farsight enclaves are the Tau but even more good"
cosmic tulip
Yeah like my imperium simp buddy loves the FSE
Because melee is cool
And regular tau are just cringe cowards
cosmic tulip
(He does not like reading.)
cosmic tulip
i still want it
I do too.. it’s sold out where I’m at
ebon forge
And regular tau are just cringe cowards
Perturabo and Dorn would slam dunk his head
solemn gull
The tau are probably the least cowardly imo, very selfless
wintry mist
Compared to the monstrous nature of humanity idk
(do not tell them about what the eldar do to people who interact with exodites)
jaunty dawn
not sending people to pointlessly die in a bayonet charge is actually like
solemn gull
Effective
jaunty dawn
a good thing lol
jaunty dawn
noble officers who clung to that ideal weren't brave, they were monsters
cosmic tulip
They’re already alright
ebon forge
Like-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8iGMUVT2o Even Guilliman, when he need to open his heart on WHY he still tries, he shows how hopeful he really is and hate this shit
cosmic tulip
I have xenophile admech and trans metaphor eldar
ebon forge
what
cosmic tulip
I got guardsmen just to turn them into guevesa
ebon forge
And Admech are nonbinary
thin ibex
it really chaffed for me for a long time that as tau expanded in the setting, their focus on combined arms mobile warfare got a little backseated to Cool Mecha. I think the annoyance has faded some, and that it didn't get THAT back seated if I'm being honest. I did have major beef with the riptide and then the Stormsurge as feeling just... inimical to the Tau war philosophy
cosmic tulip
(My buddy said it’s a waste of money to turn guard into tau but I said fuck that)
Luckily everyone else at the store says it’s cool as hell
ebon forge
Honestly, as much as people cry to 'gatekeep your hobbies' the people that say that are the reason we should not do that -runs
cosmic tulip
And it was og cadians before the resculpt
solemn gull
Your buddy seems like kind of an ass if it’s the same buddy you keep talking about
cosmic tulip
He kinda is a power gamer so if I get back into playing 40k I’ll find other people ngl
ebon forge
your buddy sounds like the kind of people to paint their krieg's coat black
cosmic tulip
Oh nah he’s a diehard socialist
thin ibex
It's like "Tau prefer to give ground than lives. Also, here's a Stormsurge, a mech with no clear airborne delivery method, no fast traversal tools, and a giant gun. It's meant to hold ground and kill knights" really got to me
ebon forge
THAT MAKES EVERYTHING MORE CONFUSING
cosmic tulip
For 40k though he likes seeing awful people do awful things
ebon forge
He kinda is a power gamer so if I get back into playing 40k I’ll find other peop...
Wanna try KillTeam on tabletop simulator?
cosmic tulip
Because being evil is the name of the game
cosmic tulip
It's like "Tau prefer to give ground than lives. Also, here's a Stormsurge, a me...
Storm surge is baller though
thin ibex
Also the riptide felt like "Here's a giant hero mech, that also doesn't really fit into a manta, and is a heavy focus into an individual unit"
Sure, i came around to it, but it felt strongly non tau to me
wintry mist
It's like "Tau prefer to give ground than lives. Also, here's a Stormsurge, a me...
I mean, not every weapon needs to be fast to fit into mechanized warfare
ebon forge
ebon forge
HOw is this coward
untold swallow
Lemme have a unified aesthetic
ebon forge
Dorn would approve
cosmic tulip
Idk I find myself drawn to AoS more ngl
But if 40k was a bit like lancer I’d love it
wintry mist
Your main force encounters a knight
They pull back
Your titan killer kills the knight
You advance again
Rince and Repeat
thin ibex
Like the Tau wartime "Unit", like a single Cadre, loads into a Manta. That's the basic Tau wartime operating unit
You can't load a stormsurge into a manta
to reposition it at need
thin ibex
even a broadside loads into a manta
which is what hte stormsurge is but 4x as big and mean
wintry mist
a cadre loads into a manta sure
because you need cadres everywhere all the time
you dont need a stormsurge everywhere all the time
tired cairn
Or Kroot that use T'au tech
Iirc, kroot don't want to use fancy guns because they are a bunch of primitivists. Just that for culture capable of FTL travel, firearms are considered primitive lol
solemn gull
Kroot are shrimpy Yau’ja
thin ibex
I think the stormsurge, on the field, potentially works like a mobile support turret and probably engages at the limit or beyond for visual register rather than what we have on the board; but also it initially felt extremely counter to the idea of the tau battlenet utilizing resources at need from loitering pools; like a firewarrior team calling in seeker support to deal with heavier targets, sourced from sky rays, heavy drones, aircraft, devilfish, what have you. I could see its destroyer missiles and banks of weapons being accessible to combat elements in play
untold swallow
Yautja have fucking plasma cannons lol
And that's them not arming themselves as much as they could when they hunt something
wintry mist
yeah honestly I think the way the tau are supposed to work just doesnt fit with the tabletop
cosmic tulip
I think my main stumbling block for 40k is like
I play Cities of Sigmar in AoS which are multicultural like the tau and noblebright
junior robin
was thinking how out of place those sand bags looked, but what would even a high tech tau aesthetics sand bag look like? 🤔
cosmic tulip
But most of humanity in 40k sucks
And it creates a disconnect because I tend to like more utopian fiction
So whenever I suggest improvements it gets backlash
Even for my homebrew factions people don’t really like it
wintry mist
Is it an improvement or is it just your personal taste, though?
cosmic tulip
Just my personal taste
I’ve had people offer “friendly critique” that tend to be “this is too bright make it darker”
tired cairn
The T'au in most other settings would be baddies*, but everyone else in 40k are comically evil so they look pretty good by comparison
*incredible YA novel material lol
wintry mist
I’ve had people offer “friendly critique” that tend to be “this is too bright ma...
that's fair
cosmic tulip
Like my Mechanicus were an explorator fleet that found a daot ai that “reprogrammed” them with ideals of the dark age of tech
And now they trade xenotech and fight specific targets for inscrutable ends
Very clean silver bronze and green asthetic for a forest vibe
untold swallow
That does sound interesting
cosmic tulip
It’s apparently fitting more for 30k than 40k
untold swallow
But do they make any effort to hide these facts?
cosmic tulip
Yeah
untold swallow
Okay then yeah someone's just yuckin ur yums for no reason
cosmic tulip
The techpriests are made of shifting nanotech that can alter appearance to look like a regular priest, an android or a mix of stuff
wintry mist
I think 40k is in a good spot where most canonical good guys are constantly in struggle town
untold swallow
The Mechanicum has done more blasphemous things than that
wintry mist
lamenters are just the good guy space marines
cosmic tulip
Yeah
untold swallow
on the down low at least
cosmic tulip
They’re also being hunted by Mars and the Necrons
untold swallow
idk wtf this person's problem was then lmao
untold swallow
Share
cosmic tulip
It’s a Craftworld of geneticists and scientists that had a way to store the dna of alien species through a special connection to isha and basically artificial life magic, and they used to trade with a planet of humans a lot until the age of strife, where the Craftworld suffered a disaster and the population was basically halved, so the automated machines started making more mass-produced eldar using the corpses of humans and eldar during a disaster
As a result there are no true eldar on the Craftworld
And they need a constant supply of people to make new eldar into soldiers
All the other species they used to work with were xenocided long ago
untold swallow
Interesting
pulsar cairn
eldar clone troopers when
untold swallow
Not my cup of tea but I don't see why it wouldn't fit at least with some massaging of the lore
wintry mist
been thinking about making a renegade marine chapter
cosmic tulip
“It feels more like the technological scale of 30k than 40k” is what I got for that lmao
thin ibex
Something I've mentally toyed with with my homebrew Sept is firewarriors becoming more self and squad reliant due to the labyrinthine nature of a give causing disruption in their comms; forcing them to utilize former gangers, drones, or kroot as scouts, and needing more accessible fire support on hand rather than via battle net
cosmic tulip
Oooh!
untold swallow
“It feels more like the technological scale of 30k than 40k” is what I got for t...
The tech scale of Eldar is honestly 'Whatever the fuck the author likes, but extremely constrained in quantity'
cosmic tulip
(As for my tau—unchanged, my tau are chill with no further changes)
thin ibex
Shas ui coming to really value the krootox's big gun when an ambush occurs
untold swallow
been thinking about making a renegade marine chapter
Do it, make 'em Greyshields that got stranded or something
wintry mist
the idea I had was that yeah they were greyshields made up of primaris geneseed from the geneseed of the 11th primarch
floral herald
“It feels more like the technological scale of 30k than 40k” is what I got for t...
At risk of being mean to strangers online this seems sort of like a lorelet take because the Eldar haven’t decayed technologically since 30k
floral herald
My general feeling is that 40K is a yourdudes setting and it’s intentionally very hard to be lore breaking when it comes to putting twists on things
wintry mist
the idea I had was that yeah they were greyshields made up of primaris geneseed ...
they went renegade after news of them attacking a forge world to kill everyone who knew about this spread (but not the reason for why they attacked it)
untold swallow
iiiiinteresting
cosmic tulip
At risk of being mean to strangers online this seems sort of like a lorelet take...
Yeah I said that
It’s just I do feel like I make things a little too nice ngl
That at least could be a valid critique
wintry mist
build up their forces and their numbers to break into the imperial palace
it's an entirely unachievable goal
but thats what makes them fit
thin ibex
The TLDR for my Sept is a recent acquisition for the tau on the current sphere (5th or 6th) that surrendered mostly peacefully. As a hive world, it fell to the coalition commander to bring the Sept to heel and allow the earth caste and guevesa to bring the hive and living conditions up to Empire standards.
The whole place is a world in transition to something better, with quality of life generally improving. But there are issues with imperial insurgents, chaos cultists, genestealers, orkoids, and a necron Tomb that means the work is never done. Fire warriors growing up on this planet become experts in urban warfare and working with auxiliaries, and tend to have worrying levels of squad level independence and initiative that does then many favors when needing to think laterally
wintry mist
Subject XI is mentioned in a throwaway line in the custodes codex
cosmic tulip
The TLDR for my Sept is a recent acquisition for the tau on the current sphere (...
I dig that!
untold swallow
The TLDR for my Sept is a recent acquisition for the tau on the current sphere (...
rad as hell
thin ibex
I like the mental imagery of piranha tau patrol squads zooming through hive tunnels
And tau pacification platoons planning out an approach in the watchful shadow of a stormsurge, which effectively functions as a mobile command center because no one wants to tangle with it
Breachers are a popular pick for firewarriors, as are strike teams with carbines
mild glen
My homebrew Sept Lore is -- an Ethereal spoke out about the strict caste system, arguing it made the Empire less effective and was thus ahrful to a true Greater Good, so they were branded a Dissident and thrown in to lead a cadre of other T'au from various other Sewpts that were likewise labeled as Dissidents, so they could throw them at hopeless causes and/or suicide missions without proper backline support.
past sphinx
My Sept was a very lost sphere that ended up way out no where who co vinced a minor imperial world to the greater good and mostly had to reign in the incredibly enthusiastic former IG regiment
ebon forge
ebon forge
Need that shirt
desert jay
I have a powerful knowledge to impart to you
You can get one-off custom T-shirts made and shipped for like 15-20 bucks
desert jay
Internet, a bunch of sites offer it, the best option for you will depend on where you are and what kinda shirt/printing you want
And if there's a local shop that does them it's often (not always) the best option over ones that ship across your country
ebon forge
Will take a look, thank ya
wild fog
My thing about Tau is that "serve the greater good" is a bit sinister because the people "serving" it probably suffer under it more than they think.
It sounds like a beautiful philosophy until you're a city the Tau let Orks murder so and abandon so they can counter attack them super hard, that kind of thing
Which isn't any worse than the Imperium but still can be a shock
marsh haven
Like if this were Star Trek yeah the Tau would be the baddies
But in the context of 40k’s general air of apocalyptic insanity they’re well, the boy scouts
Even with the brainwashing and the other questionable stuff
The Tau could kill every dissident in their territory overnight and it would not equal one tenth of the oceans of blood that Humanity, the Necrons, and the Eldar have spilled and would gladly spill again
past sphinx
AN DONT FORGET THE BEST LADZ
marsh haven
That should go without saying
marsh haven
Yeah Orks don’t really have a civilization more complex than a particularly violent football riot
Really they’re probably the most adaptive native species in the galaxy
They don’t go thorough civilizational malaise
marsh haven
Alcohol is necessary for football riots
They have a squig for every support industry so the boyz can focus on fightin’ an killin
past sphinx
animal husbandry
desert jay
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/309830390745661440/1288984528228057178/...
The baby-skin is so delicate that it's actaully really hard to do with those big space marine arms
marsh haven
Do you think that back when the Eldar were the dominant galactic civilization the Orks aped them instead of the humans?
and once Humanity finally kills itself the Orks will start stealing words from the Tau instead
finite compass
thus orks imitating humans
DIGGANOBZ
cosmic tulip
Darktide really makes me like
“Chaos? cringe.”
rages against eldritch terror instead with fire in my soul
past sphinx
even post update i have weird audio stuttering
and weirdly enough the game only seems to run smoothly when using stealth abilitys
its very strange
untold swallow
I like how I made a renegade space wolf cuz I'm a DAngels player and liked dunking on what I thought was kind of a shitty chapter (not at all helped by the actions of Russ)
And now I've read about them
This was me
pastel rampart
I mean, the wolves are kinda shitty.
pastel rampart
But they're no less shitty than the average chapter.
untold swallow
I mean, the wolves *are* kinda shitty.
They're shitty in the one specific way that still justifies my space wolf renegade
Their massive cope about psykers
and according to them not having them
floral herald
Ironically the worldsoul trick seems to actually work pretty well in 40k which I've always found funny
Like the Rune Priest thing was like probably 75% a way to bypass Nikaea
But the White Scars did basically the same thing and it also works, and Exodites kinda do it too
untold swallow
"Well the Worldsoul of Prospero lets me shoot lightning out my fingers, wet-dog-smell-havin-ass bitch!"
pastel rampart
Oh 100%.
untold swallow
Like I like Space Wolf aesthetics, my character looks like one still, at least a little bit
If
Palpatine was one and an 8 foot tall woman
floral herald
*But* the White Scars did basically the same thing and it also works, and Exodit...
It's Stormseers for them instead, but its basically the same principle of safely accessing warp-powers via local tradition
untold swallow
I do think it's cool
floral herald
For some value of safely anyway
untold swallow
I just also believe it's still cope
Like if the trick works, it's not gonna stop working if you acknowledge ur a psyker
floral herald
I think its more of a cynical political maneuver, or at least was when the legend was started
floral herald
I think the Wolves kinda just buy it outright now, but the original thing was pretty much just a way to keep the librarius after Nikaea
untold swallow
Bro was ordered to raze Prospero, sure
He also enjoyed it specifically because it was Magnus and his psyker sons and their magic kingdom
floral herald
But equally warp power works on the power of symbolism and belief so they probably wound up making it quasi true over time
I was Magnus I'd have just tried not being insufferably dweeby 
untold swallow
Look I don't like Magnus
Bro thought tusk nipples were a good armor decoration, and Egypt a good aesthetic
But like
No shit he initially at least sided with the renegades
floral herald
I think that might have been Tzeentch's idea
untold swallow
He should have switched when he got told 'yo Horus is Chaos bro'
floral herald
It's still whack
wild fog
My head canon at least based on Prospero Burns Wolves admitting they were playing up their own stereotyping is they know Rune Priest is just cope, but that they understand that the framework of believe structure is very, very important to using psychic abilities
And honestly they are not wrong.
Also the Council of Nikea ending poorly was mostly Magnus fault
past sphinx
they cannot not know
i refuse to believe the wolves are that stupid
now they are according to the books very stupid
but they cant be that stupid
wild fog
I love them for one stupid reason
They're one of the very few chapters to tell the Inquisition that no, you aren't slaughtering a bunch of innocent people
And we will back that up with extreme violence
past sphinx
the only thing i dislike about wolves is that they have successors now and their scouts cant take terminator armor
if your going to bother to have veterans find the enemy they might as well kill the enemy when they do
House Steiner grindset
untold swallow
They're one of the very few chapters to tell the Inquisition that no, you aren't...
This is especially ironic given my character is at best, passively down with her Inquisitor's plan
#1161696278640594954 message
thin ibex
thin ibex
if your going to bother to have veterans find the enemy they might as well kill ...
Yeah but wolf scouts don't need to be in Terminator armor to do the "Oh well let's kill them". Wolf Scouts are that good. Just wish they weren't a worse, more expensive unit of normal scouts that can bring an extra power weapon now.
On the table I mean
Nothing about their set up speaks to how they are more elite and veteran than other chapter scouts on virtue of it being a veteran role instead of being a rookie position
floral herald
Weren’t Lone Wolves the solo terminator guys?
untold swallow
Lone Wolves iirc are any wolf that's the last survivor of his squad
floral herald
I don’t remember their rules that well besides being annoying as fuck demo charge chuckers with infiltrate
untold swallow
On the tabletop they were probably Terms
thin ibex
Lone wolves could be yeah, but at least at one point didn't need to be; narratively they're any wolf who's pack all died and they found no new pack so they seek death in battle
floral herald
They were basically build a bears
But usually we’re just a basic power armor guy with a demo charge and a combi bolter and a power weapon iirc
Had a funny (annoying) rule where they swapped their VPs to being worth a VP to the enemy if they lived to the end of the game
thin ibex
Space wolf tradition has the most ice cold killers with independent steaks and sharp minds and tells them to be scouts, giving them armor that doesn't hum and pistols and knives, and let's them go to work (referring back to wolf scouts)
thin ibex
Had a funny (annoying) rule where they swapped their VPs to being worth a VP to ...
I loved the flavor but hated the way it encouraged playing em
floral herald
Yeah
Honestly 5e was awful for codex creep
Esp since they just didn’t balance shit for years
thin ibex
Despite loving the wolves, I do still think they probably got too many unique models
And squads
And now we still have barely any units with helfrost guns
And I really don't care for an entirely knew array of primaris versions of unique space wolf units, but I do want a helfrost brutalis
Instead of melta guns I mean
floral herald
Despite loving the wolves, I do still think they probably got too many unique mo...
I did like that - I thought a lot of other other variant chapters were too vanilla
brittle salmon
Honestly 5e was awful for codex creep
orks lol
paper bluff
I think I'd love to see a chapter given the carcharadon treatment but it's the celts
Cause
For
There could be a psyker who is like Cú Chulainn and the torque is caused from psychic power
You know what. In a different AU, Celtics marines would be space wolf type dark angels
And space wolfs would be more like the HRE time period
pastel rampart
Twitter
cinder wraith
ebon forge
That's awesome
thin ibex
apparently liam is one of the, if not the, best csm player out there? Going by comments, I have no idea myself
jaunty dawn
kind a delightfully normal list tbh
jaunty dawn
huron and cypher maybe stand out but like
floral herald
They bring insanely strong “meat and potatoes” tournament lists which aren’t really skewed
jaunty dawn
a noob could build this army
thin ibex
obliterators making a showing is fun too, despite netlists swearing they're trash after the nerf
jaunty dawn
not pilot it to 1st at a gt but just in terms of unit selection
thin ibex
a bit ironically, this list is built like a champions of russ list; stacking fighy heroes into pretty much every squad
the runner up also feels like a meat and potatoes ork list
floral herald
Wow huh
cinder wraith
with huron???????????
floral herald
I basically ran the 5e version of this list haha
cinder wraith
thin ibex
right? likes its quintessential orks
soft willow
When you're the best player of the game around you can kinda play whatever.
thin ibex
obviously they're one of the most skilled people there are, but also goes to show internet people that the meta isn't everything
bright dove
These are the sort of armies I like. You just have answers to problems
floral herald
This isn’t that far outside of the CSM meta
The noise marines and going EC is weird
thin ibex
EC doesn't make all the other heroes illega llist picks, im fairly sure ruby
floral herald
But the rest is extremely normal now that cultist/DC spam isn’t meta
jaunty dawn
it's not emperors children faction I don't think?
oh wait it has to be to take lucius
thin ibex
tbh iwouldve expected to see plasma forgefiend in the list
jaunty dawn
for some reason thought emperors children had to take the word bearers detachment
cinder wraith
yes and lucius needs to be warlord if EC
floral herald
They’re T10
jaunty dawn
ye
floral herald
for some reason thought emperors children had to take the word bearers detachmen...
They just need to be mono-Slaanesh if they do iirc
I’m curious why EC
thin ibex
whats the EC benefit?
floral herald
Is it just to get Noise Marines with a real faction rule?
floral herald
whats the EC benefit?
Get Noise Marines with Heretic Astartes
desert jay
or emperors children character
CSM doesn't have the chapter rules like SM does
thin ibex
combo'd with huron's redeploys
bile chosen are just mean mother truckers
Orks getting to runner up in an 800+ player tourney is also wild
desert jay
This is the EC rule, FTR
thin ibex
considering most people can observe that orks have not been doing amazing at a high level
desert jay
So epic heroes have to just be not khorne/nurgle/tzeentch, any undivided hero is fine
cinder wraith
CSM doesn't have the chapter rules like SM does
jaunty dawn
it's basically just an extended lucius rule
thin ibex
i also appreciate that the ork list does not do the usual objective backliner/movement shenanigans situation
and rather
cinder wraith
ahhh
thin ibex
just trusts in getting stuck in
floral herald
Yee
thin ibex
instead of utility picks, the orks just over saturating the front line with the lads
cinder wraith
that is very strange...
desert jay
Oh hmm... Fabius has undivided keyword, but Cypher has neither a god keyword nor undivided
jaunty dawn
cypher plays fast and loose with allegiance but I don't think he has the favour of the gods at all
pretty much every major chaos marine faction is at least somewhat in bed with the black legion by necessity
pastel rampart
He's got someones favor but who the fuck knows who exactly.
thin ibex
i always figured that everyone in power armor has some undefined beef with cypher
loyalist, renegade, chaos, doesn't matter; you're looking to rumble with cypher; so he's always got to skip town
junior robin
finally, the emperor's dentists primaris lieutenant
the destroyers of the plaque marines
thin ibex
a noob could build this army
Inceidentally, I built an army not all that disssimilar. Not EC and no cypher, and more legionaries than chosen; but 2 preds, lots of infantry; its all there
I certainly could not play it as well though
pastel rampart
It honestly reads like a classic 3rd-5th ed CSM list.
You wouldn't have had as many characters but it's pretty similar to shit I saw back in the day.
thin ibex
i think id have brought a land raider personally, but then maybe it wouldnt be the wisest pick
pastel rampart
Land Raiders are not for the wise, but the bold.
thin ibex
Are havocs out of fashion atm?
floral herald
Yes like usual
Too fragile
The biggest problem Havocs have is that a Chaos Predator Annihilator is broadly comparable in terms of firepower and cost but is much faster and tougher
ebon forge
How was Orks?
thin ibex
?
ebon forge
on the tournament <:3
thin ibex
scroll down from there, they were in the number 2 spot
ebon forge
thank ya, glad to see the Orks recovering, I heard people were extremely disappointed with them in 10e
thin ibex
i... tend to not put a lot of stock in the warhammer community having strong reactions to stuff
not saying orks are doing fine or great; but the warhammer community is extremely dissapointed in everything
ebon forge
Stare at Death Guard and Ad Mec
Yeah
That's fair
thin ibex
community takes are often super like... polarized, which can be pretty unhelpful
pastel rampart
You could try scrolling up a bit to find the source, y'know.
cosmic tulip
https://x.com/JAPversus/status/1840930946276643068
Oh sorry
I found it on Reddit ;-;
pastel rampart
There's a whole server rule about posting art with sources.
cosmic tulip
Yeah my apologies
thin ibex
Oh curiosity, what makes the vindicator non take on sm and csm?
I figure a str 14 gun is not inconsequential
bright dove
And why wouldn't you want to get a Defiler?
runic swallow
Some people think they’re ugly 
bright dove
Can't appreciate Cannon Crab
finite compass
upper bluff
Oh curiosity, what makes the vindicator non take on sm and csm?
Short range and it's very swingy having both d6 shots and d6 damage
I don't think they're awful
you can do massive damage or nothing
which is true about all guns but adding more rolls is just adding more risk
upper bluff
(also they're old marine stuff so they might not exist in a few years)
thin ibex
Tried my hand on a sort of bread and butter list but didn't bring any rhinos
I'm not so certain that vindicator is gonna go bye bye, but i am curious as to what a primaris equivalent might look like
Hover siege track seems strange
But maybe cool
Plasma siege gun?
Rocket maybe?
pulsar cairn
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zqG5DGHoDS8
is he?
upper bluff
Idk I honestly don't think we're going to get a primaris equivalent. I think it's more likely that it gets a CSM update in 11th edition and jsut gets removed from Loyalists
thin ibex
Could go either way, but I could see a close assault vehicle niche currently unfilled with primaris options
Heck people thought we weren't gonna get a successor to the predator and we got the gladiators
floral herald
Oh curiosity, what makes the vindicator non take on sm and csm?
For CSM it’s just expensive as hell
Triple Vindi used to be fairly meta for CSM but GW hit the points fairly hard
thin ibex
Ahh gotcha
jaunty dawn
this is silly
pulsar cairn
no primaris chaos space marines in the tabletop but do we know of any in lore?
floral herald
<:vicksyThink:996566524225663086> no primaris chaos space marines in the tablet...
Yeah there’s a bunch
jaunty dawn
pulsar cairn
know any examples?
floral herald
Angron’s bloodsplosion chao’d up a shitload of people including a lot of primaris marines
thin ibex
Supposedly primaris marines are more resistant to chaos but none are immune
thin ibex
Do they still sell the flamer airbrush?
Can have your servo skull pallette, flamer airbrush... do they have other novelty type accessories?
ebon forge
https://youtu.be/j_5nXgfQnqg?t=1177 BloodAngels goes Yee haw, is canon
floral herald
Given he just took a GT probably
floral herald
Can have your servo skull pallette, flamer airbrush... do they have other novelt...
Maybe the gunsight shaped LoS laser?
cosmic tulip
Can’t decide what to do
Continue my cities of Sigmar launch box
Make some Eldar guardians
Or paint
ebon forge
Is fabulous bill worth taking these days?
"Hey Abbadon, do you want some Beer?"
past sphinx
Same hair pattern