Warhammer and Such

[thin ibex]

I imagine dorn found them infuriating in that they likely saw every reason for Big E to not be a God as explicit proof that he was in fact a God

[soft willow]

I don’t think it was explicitly around the imperial cult stuff.

But I haven’t read that part of the heresy yet.

[past sphinx]

Sigismund was an asshole and so are his sons and iirc almost caused a second civil war over the codex

[thin ibex]

I thought it was siggy being guided by... was it euphrates? And buying into the whole fated and destined business

[floral herald]

They were always Sigsimund’s goon ass followers but I’m not sure how religious they were at the start

[floral herald]

It was yeah

[past sphinx]

he was good friends with the world eaters for gods sake

its why the BT do it to begin with

the chains thing that is

in a legion of blunt instruments Sig simply had the longest handle

[thin ibex]

He was, alongside being a massive asshole, very good at fighting

Incredible even

Oh, last night's list

Since we're talking BT, shall I do a BT list?

[pulsar cairn]

so they might not have been religious at the start but were already very problematic

Got it

[past sphinx]

it would have been funnier for him to get shit canned by kharn

i find it fucking preposterous that he had to get saved by dorn himself but managed to get a near killing blow on abbadon

[wild fog]

The Black Templar come from Sigsimund, who came to believe the Emperor's divinity wholesale. The other Templar's were convinced as well

[pulsar cairn]

Didnt abbadon return his body?

[wild fog]

The religiosity was always there

[pulsar cairn]

Did he like have any respect for siggy?

[past sphinx]

yeah threw his beaten ass back to terra

"were back"

[wild fog]

Dorn loved Sigismund. It's why he was so so angry

It was a profound betrayal

[pulsar cairn]

I see thats kind of sad

[past sphinx]

"yeah dad lorgar is right actually"

the man skated on a lot

[pulsar cairn]

Imma go bed now friends i wish thee fun discussions

[past sphinx]

partially because the BT got to have the big box cover in 4th but im just being a salty bastard about them

[pulsar cairn]

Good night!

[thin ibex]

I think the thing about fighting skill is that it's not like a linear constant. A characters capabilites will fluctuate a lot

[floral herald]

I mean HH era, technically before the black templars existed

[thin ibex]

Siggy beating someone does not mean he always beats that someone and anyone "weaker" than them, as much as power scalers would have you believe

[wild fog]

Which is true about real fights. I'm not talking about controlled sporting events, but it-only-ends-when-one-side-can't-fight

Sometimes the guy who never loses gets tagged with a lucky shot, or he's tired, distracted, hung over...

[thin ibex]

I'm mostly thinking about the sigi/abbaddon vs sigi/kharn comparison

[bright dove]

Kharn would beat him.

Sigi's good, but it's Kharn.

[thin ibex]

I don't think it's absolute

[bright dove]

Fair.

But I'd put my money on Kharn.

[thin ibex]

But also the reason it comes up is Sigi "beat" Abby as far as a duel, landing what would have been a killing blow iirc. And I think Abby can take kharn

But that doesn't mean that sigi beats kharn, is really what I'm saying

Hmm any sort of theme I should take with a BT list?

Or go traditional melee horde?

[bright dove]

Armored BT Division. 😛

[bright dove]

Perfect.

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... which 750 points crusade force would you recommend going with?

[thin ibex]

agents personally

i think they have a better home in crusade than in normal play

[solemn gull]

I would agree but also that does look like an incredibly fun grey knight list

[thin ibex]

it does yeah

[spice flicker]

Mostly concerned with the lack of anti-vehicle and durable units with range besides the armiger in the agents list though I do plan to invest in more armigers as it goes on.

Yeah the grey knights list is a modified version of a training Army I designed to help teach/refresh other crusade players on how to play. The only difference between it and the training Army is that the grand master is replacing a librarian with the +1 to charge enhancement.

Actually used said training Army against some tau which was geared up for taking on infantry mostly and not a single wound was taken by the GK by my part of turn 3. That dreadnought was the most durable and effective dreadnought I've ever seen. The dreadnought took out a star scythe crisis squad with coldstar commander in just 2 turns without a single lost wound.

Though I am curious how the upcoming points update is going to hit some of the factions. Any update on the eta for it?

[spice flicker]

Durable and elite with teleports but few in number or flimsy with severe lack of anti-armor but cheap with deployment shenanigans (and actual crusade rules)

[junior robin]

finally, the emperors burning logs

also failed to resist the siren call of old warhammer stuff so got one of the daemon princes and chaos spawn

[thin ibex]

hmm, weird looking space marine lieutenant

[junior robin]

I imagine its part of a log attached to his backpack banner

[spice flicker]

Finally new salamander model it seems

[pastel rampart]

https://fxtwitter.com/Starbind_S/status/1836767207763669440

[thin ibex]

id love to have a dedicated salamander model of some kind

Fire Drakes maybe

though they'd be a terminator variant

[upper bluff]

same

I don't know how canon it is but giant lizard riding salamanders would kick ass

[past sphinx]

Big flamer dread

[upper bluff]

maybe once Vulkan comes back

[past sphinx]

Imma be real with you chief he's dead as hell

Gork mork and that guy over there

[upper bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/vulkan-lives-stomp-stomp-gif-8255704447025560379

[past sphinx]

One with the waaagh

[upper bluff]

He'll sleep it off... right?

The complaints with Guilliman and Lion El'Johnson I've heard is that they've kinda just been big space marines. Ork crazed Vulkan would fix that

[past sphinx]

Me shouting about another civil war like a b tier Podcaster

[upper bluff]

Have Corvus Corax return with the wings and then have the SoB view him as a new living saint

Cause wings duh

[thin ibex]

mostly i want like a special white scars biker unit and a salamanders gravis or terminator, or maybe even centurion unit; just something heavy

maybe a modern salamander special eradicator unit

[past sphinx]

Corvus returning would be a nightmare for the IoM given his views

[thin ibex]

I heard a theory that hes still in his tower but the like demon ish form is his shadow or something

is there anything to that?

[pastel rampart]

Fan-theory. Don't think there's anything to indicate otherwise.

[jagged dawn]

so we are not entirely familiar with 10th edition and were planning on putting together a 2000p list of chaos knights on new recruit

Any advice? from some online reading it seems the big knights are just, not worth it except for the weirder ones like Lancers and Rampagers

which kinda sucks because we like how they look

[thin ibex]

i think big knights are in a better spot now that they were prior

but I think @soft willow might have a strong perspective for ya

Are you looking to make it for competition or just for yourself?

and are you doing IRL or tts?

[jagged dawn]

we are in no way competitively minded so it'd probably just be for tts games or possibly as an outline if/when we actually get around to painting our knights. We had a big delay over the summer because our magnetizing tools were in boxes

currently we're just sketching out ideas in the builder

[soft willow]

Unfortunately for Chaos Knights you really don't have a lot of good big knight options.

You're almost always better off with Wardog spam, though you do occasionaly see one big knight.

[bright dove]

But the doggos are decent iirc

Eyyy

[soft willow]

They're a hard stat check for folks.

And they have great firepower.

[jagged dawn]

alright fair enough, will make a list and come back to ya'll

+ FACTION KEYWORD: Chaos - Chaos Knights
+ DETACHMENT: Traitoris Lance (Harbingers of Dread)
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1990pts
+ ALLIED UNITS: Legiones Daemonica
+
+ WARLORD: Char1: Knight Rampager
+ ENHANCEMENT: Panoply of the Cursed Knights (on Char1: Knight Rampager)
+ NUMBER OF UNITS: 14
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Char1: 1x Knight Rampager (420 pts): Warlord, Diabolus heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Warpstrike claw
Enhancement: Panoply of the Cursed Knights (+40 pts)

1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Havoc multi-launcher

3x Nurglings (40 pts): 3 with Diseased claws and teeth
3x Nurglings (40 pts): 3 with Diseased claws and teeth
3x Nurglings (40 pts): 3 with Diseased claws and teeth
3x Nurglings (40 pts): 3 with Diseased claws and teeth```

vaguely stolen from a list we found online

[upper bluff]

We're also close to the new codex so I would just make whatever you want

GW has been adjusting knight prices for a while so hopefully the codex makes meaningful changes

[jagged dawn]

Yeah we don’t even own the new codex. We just have the 9th edition one

[soft willow]

Imperial Knights was announced, Chaos Knights aren't in the road map yet.

[upper bluff]

wait are they not just being bundled

[soft willow]

Nurglings may not be as good as before, but overall it's still going to be very solid.

Rumored but unconfirmed in any way.

And the announcement showed Imperial Knights.

So I suspect not.

[jagged dawn]

Not as good as before but they are cheap

Their entire purpose is just “be annoying” in this list

[thin ibex]

personally i do think if youre doing the list for you, and not seeking to compete, you could stand to get some big knights in there

[jagged dawn]

Yeah fair

This was just a 5 minute build and we’ll work on something else after our class is over

[thin ibex]

if you want em i mean

some of hte chaos knights look cool as hell

[jagged dawn]

Oh we do

They’re very nice sculpts and as mentioned many times before we don’t really give a damn about efficacy

Will it probably die to concentrated fire? Yes

But it’s very satisfying and dramatic to charge someone with a foot tall piece of plastic

[thin ibex]

i always though the abom looked baller

knight with tusks and birds hell yeah

[bright dove]

Nurglings are funky lil tarpits

[jagged dawn]

“Oh you want to melee my knights? Too bad!”

Woe, nurglings be upon ye

[solemn gull]

I really love the faces on chaos knights they are definitely changing due to chaos and probably are at least 5% demon engine

[soft willow]

Oh yeah, the lore on them is that they're mostly demon in there.

Like you open that cockpit and it's all weird warp shit.

[tardy vault]

https://youtu.be/ZO6xJGBM5lY?si=KL-gxnM2yQHYps1o

[rocky shale]

Rampager, lancer, and tyrant are all pretty good. Tyrant wants the 40pt enhancement to make it really hard to kill, the other two are just big karnivores

[ebon forge]

The Raptors are a space marine chapter from the Black Ravens that tries to be logical, highly adaptable and are half codex compliant
Do you think a Chapter that forgo the "FOR GLORY AND HONOR" And tries to be more like a modern irl military branch is kinda of a mary sue ?

[bright dove]

No.

[ebon forge]

Ok good Paints my sniper as a Raptor marine

but do elaborate

Because sometimes I fear when a chapter tries to be 'less space marine and more military' it kinda loses the point of the setting a bit

[bright dove]

Raven Guard exist

[rocky shale]

Your knight wants to melee, let him melee, he can be trusted with it

[jagged dawn]

You will melee on our terms

Get blobbed by the nurglings before a rampager casually walks through a building and stabs you

[ebon forge]

The Chapter that uses the most hair Gel...

[finite compass]

I mean, they're still Space Marines. They just have a very pragmatic approach. They see the Codex as "a highly effective and proven set of strategic and operational guidelines rather than inviolable dogma to be obeyed without questions." Which can and has caused friction.

[solemn gull]

There is definitely something lost by making them less insane zealots warrior monk

[finite compass]

They also tend to deploy as smaller units rather than in multiple-company strength

[bright dove]

Like, the Iron Warriors are also practical*

[finite compass]

They're actually perfect for kill-team stuff, because specialized kill-teams are sort of their SOP

[ebon forge]

Oh shit you are right on that

[ebon forge]

I mean yeah but they also have the inhuman part and the "Shut your emotions in, and be an Iron wall"

[finite compass]

So do the Raven Guard and, presumably, the Raptors

[ebon forge]

true, true

[finite compass]

I was literally just rereading The First Heretic the other day.

And the bit where Lorgar encounters Corax on Istvaan V

[jagged dawn]

Oh that reminds us, the other army we were looking at test building in New Recruit was a space marine list

What we ask is us…how. We tried looking at the list of characters and nearly got a migraine

There’s too damn many

[finite compass]

And he finds the fact that Corax is actually visibly angry to be disturbing, just because up to that point he's never seen him show genuine emotion.

[jaunty dawn]

raptors are a canon thing, they can't really be inappropriate at this point

[ebon forge]

Say that to the people that insit that the T'au are inappropriate
But yeah, it was just something that I was thinking, because while yes the Raven Guard are a thing, they still have the jetpacks, Corax uses the huge claws
Iron Warriors have Petter, highly logical but can get overtaken by his anger

But thank ya

[finite compass]

Good ol' Peter Turbo

[granite basin]

The Tau are a good contrast to everyone else and that's what makes them fun

[jagged dawn]

We do not like those people

[jagged dawn]

And have ranted before about how the attempt to grimdark the t’au is dumb

[granite basin]

i think putting in an unnerving ambiguity works fine for me. like, life is better with them, but they're still expansionists following the whims of an unaccountable upper class.

[jagged dawn]

Exactly, they can still have some grey to them with the established lore

[finite compass]

But even the Tau at their worst aren't bombarding entire secotrs for religious deviation, turning random people into still-aware lobotomized cyborgs to scrub toilets for the next 500 years, and losing planets due to a scribe making rounding errors.

[solemn gull]

Cut that scribe some slack

[jagged dawn]

We know the whole “mind control” thing is iffy about how canon it is but we still dislike the idea of it being anything more serious than imperium propaganda/speculation

[finite compass]

They're still shitty. But they're not Imperium Shitty. Which pisses people off because it sort of shows the lie of "The Imperium is evil because it HAS to be!"

[granite basin]

the imperium is a bloated, labyrinthine fascist theocracy that always has an axe to grind, and a religious compulsion to not just shooting themselves in the foot, but blowing their toes clean off with a shotgun

[jagged dawn]

The tau can be the “good” faction while still being aggressive imperialists with a rigid caste system

[granite basin]

them being an average kind of shitty makes them fun.

bc you can point at them and say they still suck, but they are Saints compared to their peers

also i think the mind control angle makes more sense from the angle of imperials having no ideological frame of reference for why someone would willingly deviate from their worldview without coercion or manipulation

[bright dove]

My problem withe Tau (aside from Unga bunga fight me in melee you cowards) is that they were originally too subtle for 40k

Everyone in the setting is miserably evil in their own way

But early Tau are going "We're the evils of colonialism and interventionism" in a setting with Chaos, Dark Eldar, and the Imperium.

And there's no real taking it up to eleven

[jagged dawn]

“What do you mean humans are willingly joining them when promised a better life?”

“Must be mind control”

[bright dove]

Again, not what I had a problem with

[jagged dawn]

We know we’re just making a joke about what junobo said

[bright dove]

The flaw is that there should never be even a hint of a good faction

[granite basin]

yeah, they're too realistic in a sense, too mundane. which can be funny bc a boring awful empire is funny compared to the cocaine-fuelled gas fire clusterfuck that is everyone else, but the setting deals in extremes

[jagged dawn]

Not always a bad thing to have a comparative “normal” in a setting of extremes

In our opinion anyway

[bright dove]

It's not engaging in things like literally everyone else is.

[floral herald]

I think the way it works with the new Vespids is pretty good

They do influence them and such

But also the vespids are ADHD sickos when left to their own devices

So it’s less mind control and more the world’s most put upon Shas’ui explaining again that it’s not “poggers” to do 360 jumpshots in combat just because you can

Via communion helm

[tardy vault]

So it's as mind control as ADHD meds aka it's not?

[granite basin]

oh i think the contrast is very funny. they've still got enough weird shit going on to make them compelling, but putting a faction that has some glaring problems which could be fixed through some great upheaval or consensus is still a country mile above everyone else, if only bc their peers are literally built out of problems. it's problems all the way down. there is no good foundation. if they stop being evil they will explode and die

[floral herald]

Yeah (also the Tau do supply vespids with a lot of drugs so the comparison continues

[solemn gull]

If you put the tau in any other sci-fi setting I think they would be the villains

[floral herald]

They could fit pretty well into Star Trek as bad guys yeah

[bright dove]

The Votaan managed to dodge the Not Extreme Enough problems via Bastard Capitalists

[jagged dawn]

Though we are also of the opinion that the setting and playerbase have lost track of the fact that it started out as satire and are now taking “in the grim darkness of the 4(1st/2nd) millennium there is only war” way too far and overly literal

Constant grimdark can be…alright? but it almost becomes satire of satire at a point

Likes the jokes the Krieg

[granite basin]

it's the brand, though.

[jagged dawn]

We know

[bright dove]

40k has been the Grimdark longer than it was ever satire

[jagged dawn]

And we know we’re yelling into the void with this

[solemn gull]

It’s why I don’t like tacticool space marines

Like why do they have supressed bolt pistols

Feels like they are taking themselves way too seriously

[granite basin]

how do you even suppress a boltgun, those rounds are fucking Huge

[jagged dawn]

But for instance we prefer the “we give our lives for the Emperor and will make the enemy pay for each death” approach over the “lol let’s just shove more men into the meat grinder for literally no fucking tactical or strategic reason whatsoever”

[bright dove]

Badly

[granite basin]

they can be the same thing from different perspectives, and that's the kind of black comedy the setting often needs

[jagged dawn]

Exactly

[bright dove]

Also actual wars will feed people into the meatgrinder for no reason.

[jagged dawn]

Yeah but this is fantasy, we can play loose with the rules

Plus we’re not opposed to callous commanders throwing men at something because out of touch orders tell them to

We just dislike how it’s become like, the entire thing with basically no exceptions

Idk we’re clearly in the minority with this so we’re just gonna go

[bright dove]

No, that's just the common meme. It's actually not that.

[granite basin]

i think it's a good discussion tbh

[lofty warren]

Whats the discussion?

[jagged dawn]

Again we know. But the meme is what most people know and they don’t look deeper

[bright dove]

Things are dark, life in the setting sucks. But things are moving now. There was a long time where nothing happened.

[jagged dawn]

We’re not stupid we’re just not great at making coherent statements

[granite basin]

i think some rare moments of competence or levity are also interesting, and can highlight how deeply, structurally fetid the imperial bodies are

[jagged dawn]

Hell our mechanicus army is meant to be its own forgeworld that got cut off by warp storms sometime during the Horus heresy

[finite compass]

Subsonic rounds with a quieter propellant that don't detonate

Is how Stalker rounds are supposed to work in lore, anyway

[jagged dawn]

And just kinda, did their own thing until being rediscovered

Which may or may not be considered tech heresy but eh

We like unconventional approaches to the setting

[solemn gull]

I wish things got worse. I want to watch the imperium destroy itself.

[granite basin]

space marines used to be fucking trigger-happy morons. and while i understand why they've become more ambiguous (bc they're the posterboys and they want to sell more plastic men to ppl so having them all be dipshit hyperfascists doesn't sell as well) it does go against what at least Some of the text is trying to tell you

[bright dove]

They tried a trial run of that. People hated the Endtimes.

[jagged dawn]

Also quick aside can we have like, one example of a rebellion/uprising that isn’t secretly chaos? If it maybe falls to chaos in the aftermath that’s…mostly fine

[solemn gull]

Marines Malevolent are really cool my favourite assholes

[solemn gull]

Necromunda fixes this

[jagged dawn]

But people can be upset enough to fight without someone drawing a pentagram in blood the next room over

[floral herald]

I think that’s just to make the models have it visible - silent bolts have been a thing in the lore for a long time

[solemn gull]

Ogryn slave uprising is it’s own whole faction

[jagged dawn]

There’s a decent example in Shadowsword where the rebellion happens because the governor refuses to pay the tithe

[thin ibex]

The badab war wasn't chaos originally

[lofty warren]

or have it be chaos but actually its based

[floral herald]

Fwiw there is an example of this in codex Genestealer Cults 9E

[jagged dawn]

Because they physically can’t pay it and the administratum won’t listen to reason

[lofty warren]

chaos space marines should be evil bastards but chaos as a whole should be a bit more nuanced

[floral herald]

Planet rises up, rebels on the governor

Governor says “it’s genestealers!”

Space marines show up and put the planet to the sword

[jagged dawn]

Interesting, we only have the 8e edition

[floral herald]

Eventually realize that the governor was awful and the rebellion pious

All records subsequently expunged

[solemn gull]

Amongus reference?

I will see myself out

[thin ibex]

In that the badab was was initially just a rebellion iirc

[jagged dawn]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shadowsword_(Novel)

[bright dove]

Goge Vandire.
Badab War.

[jagged dawn]

Also has one of our favourite lines in fiction
“A line must be drawn, before we run out of sand to mark it in.”

[jagged dawn]

Fair enough

[thin ibex]

Badab War was also convered in a LOT of detail thanks to imperial armour

[jagged dawn]

We are not overly aware of older lore for various reasons

[floral herald]

I think you can read between the lines and say that the Imperium will declare any losing rebellion to be tainted by the dark gods

But it’s not like, hard canon that that happens a lot

[thin ibex]

Or xenos, they'll do that to

[granite basin]

i think this is Also an example of imperial perspective being heavily skewed and having no concept of anyone willingly leaving their purview without being "corrupted" in some form or another. the canon is yours to use as clay, GW said so

[floral herald]

They would probably have tortured Sebastian Thor for 1000 years if he didn’t win

[granite basin]

and right after you made my same point lmao

[floral herald]

Oh haha, great minds

[bright dove]

Space Wolves vs Inquisition

[floral herald]

I do think that this is a common issue with the 40k fandom as a whole

[ebon forge]

I love when he said "i am going full turbo" and then cried in the campfire

[floral herald]

There’s a common tendency to take things as just true uncritically when it’s actually an Imperium lunatic saying them for personal gain

I think that’s often what’s happening when people talk about things being less satirical - it’s less a huge change to the writing and more that it’s very popular now to just uncritically believe everything the imperium says

[jagged dawn]

Yeah people seem to forget that propaganda is…a thing

[solemn gull]

“I will believe it if it’s funny” when used for the least funny meme ever

[jagged dawn]

Hell it doesn’t even have to be deliberate lying the imperium is huge and records are terrible

Something can be false simply because the person writing it in universe was going off like, 27th hand accounts

[past sphinx]

Some proper badab books would be awesome but fuck everything up somehow

Like hh and olinius

[granite basin]

like, it's more than likely a massive chunk of these rebellions were your garden variety worker's revolt or revolution which invariably occurs when you are as monolithically shitty as the imperium of man

[thin ibex]

I mean, on the subject of satire, the subject of satire or the characters within it, are supposed to take the premise seriously

rather than wink and nod at the camera

[granite basin]

and the accounts of cultists feverishly singing litanies in the name of chaos could also be less than true. not that chaos cultery doesn't happen, but not everyone has to pick a god. sometimes people just want no masters, and again, imperials don't understand that

[past sphinx]

Sometimes the people choosing to fight for a better life aren't insidious religious minorities their communists!

40k aint good on this

[granite basin]

also there wouldn't be as much chaos cultery if you didn't feed state-sponsored religion to your entire populace and offered no alternatives for community, bc the imperium directly feeds into chaos with their incredible incompetence, but they don't tend to say that as much

[solemn gull]

Also if the people are conditioned to only know theocracy chances are they will probably be easily subverted to other forms of theocracy

[past sphinx]

Come to think of it theres some really gross lines you could draw between GSC certain opinions about black leftist movements in the early 1900s and like 1970s

[granite basin]

people already have. i choose not to acknowledge it

[solemn gull]

See word bearers

[solemn gull]

?

[granite basin]

GSC is very, very ripe material for the kind of rightward conspiracy theory about racial infiltration, dismantling society through revolution to feed an insidious force, etc.

[past sphinx]

"Foreigners diluting the gene pool and starting working revolts" is an old tool in the pyscho tool box

Happened to every group that came into American basically

[granite basin]

it is abstracted to a point that's... fine, but it's really really easy to make those kinds of comparisons should you look for them
so i don't look for them

[past sphinx]

Same thing happens with orcs in shadowrun

But its just like not even slightly obfuscated in shadowrun

The deepest problem with 40k as commentary on fascism is that it justifies those beliefs internally by inventing things to match those fears

[floral herald]

The way I see it chaos worshippers are generally pretty practical - even if you have nothing the dark gods can give you succour or power and they’re always listening

And the imperium’s general awfulness gives plenty of reason to pray for help

The gods just grant temporal power to those who ask, and eventually they ask for stuff back

[solemn gull]

I wouldn’t call that a problem I think it’s just another way of doing satire. Like looking in from the outside it still works.

[granite basin]

I'd argue that depends on who writes it. sometimes the imperium is textually pretty justified for being as comically horrible as they are. a common consensus is usually that they're horrible, but their ends somehow justify the means of living out one more day.

[ebon forge]

Fools
We literally have communism and it is on THE GOBBO SIDE

[granite basin]

which they haven't. the great crusade wasn't necessary, and neoth is a narcisstic twit who flayed a cultural diaspora thousands of worlds strong into one flattened image

[ebon forge]

Agreed

[granite basin]

literally the vast majority of the imperium's problems would be solved if he wasn't such a jackass

no horus heresy. no hordes of chaos worshippers, no compulsion to suppress even the slightest shred of infighting, no need to lobotomize people just bc robots existed, like. so much of this was just pride.

[desert jay]

I also like the idea that not all confirmed Chaos rebellions started as Chaos-followers, they had a perfectly mundane scrappy rebellion going and some Chaos guys show up offering daemon engines and shit

[granite basin]

that's a reasonable take. the ruinous powers are nothing if not opportunists

[desert jay]

"Who told you we're bad? The Imperium? The guys where you're currently trying to throw their yoke off your shoulders?"

[ebon forge]

Yeah, the talk between Bile and Cawl reflects that nicely

[desert jay]

And/or they don't know shit about Chaos b/c of how hush the Imperial Cult keeps the details, and are all "I like your funny words magic man, now make with the magic guns"

[granite basin]

turns out a society that fosters ignorance and byzantine bureaucracy at every stage is not conducive to proper threat assessment, who'da fuckin thought-

[cosmic tulip]

YEAH

[pastel rampart]

But enough about the United States :v

[cosmic tulip]

Could have multiple inperiums spring up

[granite basin]

religious bodies, and especially theocracies, are famously schismatic

which is compounded by the layers of deliberate obfuscation and just generally poor intel on the IoM's part

the only thing the empire really is, is coup-proof. bc not even the people with the most power know at all what's going on beyond a local level

and Even Then

[cosmic tulip]

If they had multiple imperiums that would be cool

It’s technically not the End Times either

[granite basin]

there was an AU where the Ultramarines literally just seceded

the Dornian Heresy AU had the entirety of ultramar and all of its marines just pick up and leave the imperium

[pastel rampart]

We sort of get a second Imperium via the Imperium Nihilus, since so much of that is now isolated.

[desert jay]

I think the individual Lords of Terra could prolly be coup'd by their subordinates and it's a 50/50 if the other Lords give a damn as long as the new guy is also pro-Imperium

[cosmic tulip]

I want like more stuff like the Dante book

It had a planet of eldar and humans working and chilling together

Just like

Tiny subfactions

If the Inquisition gets an entire codex there should be more Little Dudes with their own rules

[lofty warren]

what's the grot version of the internationale, i wonder

[granite basin]

and bc of how the dark imperium is somehow in even more dire straits than its counterpart, i can't imagine it being any better.

[lofty warren]

chaos sending out guys to fund any old anti-imperium rebellion like americans in the cold war

or soviets in the cold war

[unreal cosmos]

https://fixupx.com/CerberusXt/status/1838339643491652058 🎉

[cosmic tulip]

LMAO

[granite basin]

i think malice would do that

bc Fuck Neoth and the horse he rode in on. literally no other reason-

i want to see malal/malice get more spotlight, bc i love the idea of a chaos god whose primary motivation is spite

[pastel rampart]

Unfortunately Malal is stuck in rights hell and Malice has been little more than a nod to that old lore than like, an actually expanded thing.

[past sphinx]

Based and Gorkapilled

Or is it morkapilled

[ebon forge]

Morkapilled, ya git
Mork is cunning but brutal

[past sphinx]

Ah but gork is equally brutal but cunning

cartoon dust ball fight

[floral herald]

Revisionist, the revolution is with Gork

[ebon forge]

HAH

[thin ibex]

Orkist infighting? In my warhammer? It's more likely than you think

[past sphinx]

ONLY 6 KLANS? DER SHUD BE A KLAN FOR ALL DA ORK BOYZ TOGETHA

there are now 7 ork clans

[finite compass]

Literally the Alpha Legion

[finite compass]

DOSE ARE CALLED FREEBOOTAZ YA GIT!

again leave it to the RPGs to come to the rescue where the main gameline failed.

But the FFG stuff gave us two entire rebellions that weren't Chaos-inspired.

The first being a planetary governor whose entire motivation for secession was that the Administratum moved his planet up a tithe grade, and the industry and extraction needed to meet the new tithe would destroy his planet's biosphere and cripple the population.

And the second being a noble and subsector political figure trying to carve out his own empire, but being forced to declare it early because before he could get everything moving, he got hit with a WAAAGH

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Severan_Dominate

[solemn gull]

Severan is so cool

[past sphinx]

didnt he surf a missile?

wait no

thats sevatar

ah he surfed and aerospace fighter

[cosmic tulip]

Peak

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1069477544568557609/1288270036477415487/460929673_2960733507419632_5672795378593842175_n.png?ex=66f49277&is=66f340f7&hm=2ecd12a3af5dfc676913dbea0e5ecf7f806e44859e5d463290c033b77534ef78&

[uneven ember]

I've said this before but one of my favorite things about the Badab War is that Huron's turn to Chaos could have happened at almost any point from before the rebellion started until his last subjects bore his broken and dying body from the burning ruins of his once-mighty empire and all he'd hoped to achieve

[uneven ember]

That's great
MADDER KAT

[pastel rampart]

I like to believe that Huron only fell to chaos after he got half his body turned into beef jerky by a meltagun and was, right up until the last minute, still fighting for his ideals.

[untold swallow]

hmmm

what should the main enemy in my Deathwatch game be...

[tardy vault]

How complex do you want the plot?

If the answer is No then like Nids or Orks.

[past sphinx]

Inqusitior using nids as a weapon

Some kind of mind control

[uneven ember]

And that is a perfectly legit read of the Badab War books!
But if you wanted to go with "Huron turned to Chaos at some point in the prologue and everything went from there" that's a justifiable (if duller) take.

[untold swallow]

The answer to the complexity question is like... a little?

[bold halo]

inquisitor cultivating a designer genestealer cult would be neat

[untold swallow]

one of my ideas was already a genestealer cult

[bold halo]

the patriarch pinned to a table like a taxidermied butterfly, inquisitor somehow intercepting the broodmind to have the cult slavishly devoted to him instead, it's fertile ground

[bright dove]

Istaavian Inquisitor purposefully helping along a Genestealer Cult to help make the Imperium stronger.

[bold halo]

supervillain doomsday weapon moment is trying to tap into the hivemind to direct a hive fleet at the imperium's enemies

(it won't work)

[uneven ember]

(Istaavian Inquisitors are so fucking funny to me)

(MFs look at the Grim Darkness of the Far Future wherein There Is Only War and go "things seem a little cozy around here without me to sort them out")

[untold swallow]

one of them is fucking named Lichtenstein oh my God

[uneven ember]

Wait what
Okay that rules

[untold swallow]

These guys seem like super accelerationists

[bright dove]

They are!

It's a fantastic enemy faction to use.

Or, alternatively, to work for.

There's also the Recongregators!
Recongregationism - The Recongregators believe that the Imperium, after long millennia of stagnation, has become decadent and corrupt. To remedy this, Recongregators believe that only through change can the Imperium hope to prosper, believing that the greatest threat that Humanity faces is its lack of progress and terminal stagnation. Working quietly behind the scenes, the Recongregators seek to influence or engineer events that will lead to change and progress. It is a subtle game, and of all the major factions of the Inquisition, they are counted amongst the least visible, keeping to the shadows whilst others charge into the fray. They are most deeply opposed within the Inquisition by the Puritan Amalathians.

[finite compass]

IIRC Lichtenstein was Gav Thorpe's Inquisitor PC (the old 54mm skirmish game) who made it into canon

Because I remember the White Dwarf where they announced the game and there was an whole article and battlereport with his converted warband.

[untold swallow]

So so far I have a Genestealer cult-promoted rebellion on a relatively sparsely populated agri-world being masterminded by an Istvaanian Inquisitor

[bright dove]

Ye, the Inquisitor game is actually rad.

[finite compass]

Phil Kelly, not Gav Thorpe

[untold swallow]

The PDF are being outmached (due to intel being fed to the cult by the Inquisitor and their associates) and the Inquisitor moves to the next stage of their plan

[uneven ember]

...was that the one with the arco-flagellant converted with Gaz' power klaw and the Daemonhost with giant rat tails all over?

[finite compass]

Yep!

[untold swallow]

buttering up the Governor into allowing the Inquisitor to request the presence of a Deathwatch kill-team

[uneven ember]

I remember that.
It was dope

[untold swallow]

The local Watch Station's Watch-Commander, going 'Really?' but not wanting to piss of the Inquisition itself by not doing anything

Sends a kill-team

Of two marines

[bright dove]

You know, should those Marines die, perhaps a more notable force might be brought forth....

[untold swallow]

My partner's character, an assault marine seconded from the Iron Griffons, a chapter whose geneseed is unknown but who are known for favoring orbital bombardments, drop pods, and Thunder Hammers, and a codicier librarian from the Dark Angels successor Chapter the Blades Contemplative (my character, I am playing a gmpc as we don't want to invite randoms and our other partner is uninterested)

Since it's just the two of us my partner is letting me indulge myself XD

[uneven ember]

I feel that's fair

[untold swallow]

And I made sure to make her (fem!marines based) the dour, rarely talkative type so as to not take the spotlight lol

[untold swallow]

?

[bright dove]

I'm saying the Istaavian might try to get marines killed at some point so more people have to go into a grinder. 😛

[untold swallow]

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

At some point it becomes clear Shit Is Serious ™️

So the Watch-Commander sends a second, larger kill-team

All of them get killed on planetfall

[uneven ember]

My never-ran 40K concept was a DH game where the hardbit Acolytes are sent off to a backwater agri-world of small planet Imperial values so prosperous that most (non-mutant) families can afford a prefab housing unit and a personal conveyance machine
The Acolytes are tasked to find out if the youth's growing interest in consciousness-expanding intoxicants, atonal "music," individualism, and rejection of Imperial values of hate and militancy is some subversive Chaos plot
(It is of course)

[untold swallow]

The problem with this is I would immediately clock this as parody of the 50s and immediately ask where the small town sheriff stereotype is

[bright dove]

Why, he's one of the Acolytes of course.

[untold swallow]

Jokes on you

He was next to you on the ship

[floral herald]

I'm reminding of that bit in Inquisition War where they decide to launch a planetary investigation because the food is too good

And luxury creates laxity

[untold swallow]

I am now trying to figure out the vibes the agri-world has; whether to make it super futuristic hydroponics in small vaults on an otherwise Mars levels of dusty planet

Or vast tracts of farmland

[uneven ember]

I figured it's gotta be the tracts of farmland, because how else do you get crop circles (giant summoning glyphs) and scary dangeous cornfield raves

[bright dove]

It's both.

Why waste perfectly good desert? Turn it into more farms.

[uneven ember]

Yes!

[untold swallow]

could be in the middle of terraforming

ooooo that's how the Inquisitor gets the governor to rubber stamp the Deathwatch

[bright dove]

A nice multi-biome planet, that's working as hard as possible to farm as much as possible.

[untold swallow]

The cult is getting in the way of rolling out his terraforming project

and that looks bad to those on high, as opposed to him wanting to look good

[floral herald]

The nice thing is that there isn't one kind of agri-world they're just characterized by overuse

[granite basin]

Could also have a conflict where something is wrong with a supply line or pipeline, bc people understandably have issues with trucking tankers of water all the way out to the Cactusfuck Desert

[past sphinx]

idk what bro was cookin

but he succeeded '

[cinder wraith]

maybe reverse light / color painting?

[pastel rampart]

Hm.

[untold swallow]

So my second partner may be joining the Death Watch game cuz her D&D game didn't work out in terms of time

<XD

[bright dove]

Woooo!

Three Marines! 😄

[bold halo]

oh hey it's what happens when you mix all your playdoh and force it through The Extruder

[pastel rampart]

https://imgur.io/kaB152i

[wild fog]

I've always been kind of vaguely interested in playing an astartes ttrpg just to play in the space of something that's had entire parts of their humanity excised

Like my favorite lore bits have always been other characters coming to them that astartes aren't like heroic or divine but something that is way more disquieting. They are humans that someone decided should be less so they could wage war better

[bold halo]

so how's spearhead as just its own thing without diving right into bigger AoS games? gimmicky "no totally you can play with just the starter box" thing or does it have legs

[bright dove]

It has some good legs

Nice and quick while still having some meat

[bold halo]

hm yes telling me what I want to hear

[bright dove]

And is a good way to jump into the hobby

[bold halo]

I mean I've been in the hobby and then out of the hobby, but coming back my old whfb army got split up a couple different ways and I'm not crazy about picking up the other stuff I'd need to make any of it work

plus I've been wistfully looking at all the cool new aos sculpts for years but finally have a real job and can afford to start picking things up again

hilarious that one of the spearheads is just Three Giants

[bright dove]

Yeah. It's.... Not the best. It's the only Spearhead that doesn't get you a viable army for AoS

[past sphinx]

the grand arch of not buying any warhammer for like 3 years and then building and painting 2 armies in a year

[bold halo]

I mean I stopped in 10th edition

so a little more than 3 years

sorry no 8th

that was the last one

been long enough that I invented two more editions

but dark elves got split up into multiple factions in AoS so it wasn't an easy way back in at any point

[bright dove]

Oh, yeah

[bold halo]

my brother collected empire so I'd joke that between us we only had one army now

but god, now, I feel spoiled for choice

age of sigmar popped off with sculpts ngl

[bright dove]

It really did

[bold halo]

gloomspite's winning my heart atm but I always did want a vampire counts army and not having to buy metal blood knights for $too much is appealing

orks always appealing, especially that chunky as hell dragon

several chaos factions always appealing, so hard to choose just one which was always my problem lmao

[tardy vault]

One of the Stormcast Spearheads is really cool because it has one of the single killest heroes in the game in it

but you only get her round 3 and 4

So you're basically playing a holding action for the first half then pop off and murderize everything

Vampire Courts have a similar setup with 3 chunky monsters that show up round 3

[bold halo]

stormcast said

really cool idea but I like being the bastards too much to pick big shiny heroes

[bright dove]

Maggotkin also get some Reserve Chunkiness

[tardy vault]

Skaven are in the starter box this edition so they got a bunch of new sculpts

if you wanna play bad guys

[bright dove]

The Skaven are rad

[bold halo]

they were never my flavor of bad guys

if I want grubby little weirdos I'm more likely to go goblins

[tardy vault]

fair

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this 750 pts ad Mech army I am trying to help someone put together for the crusade were a part of?

[bold halo]

maggotkin are definitely high up the list though

[bright dove]

They're slow, but tough

Army-wide Ward 5+

[tardy vault]

(Ward is basically Feel No Pain in 40k)

[bold halo]

standard nurgle stuff, love to see it

I'd be able to get basically my plague marine fix in too

[bright dove]

One of the units has 3 wounds, 3+ save, and the 5+ ward.

[agile yew]

Hey, back when 40k had armour values, what was the armour values of a Valkyrie?

[bold halo]

all I remember about armor values is like, land raiders were 14 and eldar tanks were like 12/12/10

pretty sure valkyries were on the lower end though?

[runic swallow]

God, I still remember the time I shot down a Eldar fighter with a lucky heavy bolter shot, got an immobilized result and that was that for the poor fighter lmao

[solemn gull]

I think it would be really funny if there’s nothing going on. Like you take this veteran group and drop them on some springfield town and watch them go insane that nothing bad is happening

[runic swallow]

Just watch it turn from Dark Heresy into a Fiasco game

[thin ibex]

I still want to play/run Wrath and Glory

[granite basin]

As do I, one day.

[agile yew]

Found the stats. They were armour 12/12/10. Remarkably tanky aircraft.

[remote wharf]

Hell naw they Mike Wazowski'd him!
https://fixupx.com/DYorgy/status/1838255570630910166?t=eikLXNRJSNy-oakcpBisLw&s=19

[granite basin]

don't worry, he definitely planned that

[wild fog]

Someone has to hold the camera

[untold swallow]

I am currently trying to accurately predict what chapter my partner is going to make their Deathwatch character

Cuz they know nothing about space marines

[floral herald]

Oh that’ll be interesting for sure

[untold swallow]

I think Blood Angels have a general leg up since she likes vampires

but I'm trying to account for other components of her taste

but all those components point to

chaos

XD

Cuz she likes tieflings, witchcraft, etc etc

So they are so unhelpful

XD

[runic swallow]

Exorcists, if that’s not too unknown

[granite basin]

seconded on exorcists

[untold swallow]

That's a good shout, actually

will definitely mention them to her

[floral herald]

Exorcists are very tiefling-y all things considered

Some of them even have horns

Though they’re usually surgically removed

[runic swallow]

Oh, maybe Black Dragons

[untold swallow]

pfff their sigil is just the fucking librarian sigil

[runic swallow]

Though I’ll also shout out my boys the Lamenters just because

[bright dove]

Space Wolves.

[floral herald]

That’s a good shout yeah

[untold swallow]

God their homeworld is fucking called Banish

That's so cheesy but goes so hard

[untold swallow]

possibly, and deeply funny since I'm a Dark Angel, however

[floral herald]

Space marine writing isn’t usually very subtle haha

[untold swallow]

much more my other partner's thing

[bright dove]

That's the best part.

[untold swallow]

and he's playing a sigmarine

not a joke

he is playing a chapter founded by space sigmar

and it's amazing

[granite basin]

THUNDER WARRIORS...

TWO!

[untold swallow]

They have a strategy called the twin-tailed comet

where they orbitally bombard a planet, and right behind them, as the missiles and bombs are launched

launch drop pods

So a bunch of motherfuckers in grey and silver armor with heavy bolters and thunder hammers walk out of the dust clouds

[granite basin]

raw as fuck tbh

[untold swallow]

ye her chapter writeup is great

[untold swallow]

What's great is my character, by my rolled chapter past and chapter deed

handily kicked a wolf's ass

well maybe not handily, it was well and hard fought on both sides

but a firstborn sergeant getting out-dueled by a Primaris marine who's also a woman by virtue of how my fem!marine headcanon works?

oof, that's some wounded pride

[untold swallow]

fuck now the side of me that loves drama wants to show her the space wolves and be like oooo werewolf vikings in space that you can also use to have funny proxy beef with me ooooo

XD

[untold swallow]

OOOOOOOOO I JUST FIGURED OUT A FUCKIN BALLIN WAY TO GET MY CHAPTER TO REFERENCE MY FAVORITE COMIC AS A KID

anyone read BONE?

The allcaps are how the title is stylized

They're a group of warrior monks and have hoods that look like this

So my chapter could have the eye of Malcador on robes for warriors they sent to the Deathwatch

[wide veldt]

So is there a 40k TTRPG in which playing xenos is supported well beyond just like, eldar

?

[rocky shale]

Maybe rogue trader?

[soft willow]

Nope. Just Wrath and Glory which also has Orks IIRC

[wide veldt]

Damn

[brittle salmon]

Define supported well

[wide veldt]

… playable

And not broken as fuck

[wide veldt]

Okay
I have an idea for a necron army
I want necrons who genuinely, legit want the best for the galaxy
Like totally seriously are like “alright well, we’ve gotta kill your emperor first and deal with this chaos shit, the nids, but after that we’ll get the survivors all set up”

[pulsar cairn]

Uhh

What's exactly better about the Primaris when compared to firstborn?

[hard whale]

reinforced bones, cybernetic heart restarter

[mental birch]

starts playing Daft Punk

https://youtu.be/gAjR4_CbPpQ

[pulsar cairn]

[mental birch]

The serious answer is twofold

1. very slightly tougher than firstborn.
2. access to cawls multimillenia armoury

[desert jay]

Mike Wazowski has one eye, Magnus has one eye. Coincidence?

[south axle]

Magnus' real name is Mike?

[wide veldt]

I mean…… for what it’s worth, tzeentch would love being the hidden one :p

Also oh the rat god is just outright a chaos lord in AOS?

[south axle]

The Great Horned One got elevated into the chaos pantheon end of AoS3/start of AoS4

[jaunty dawn]

he was already de facto there tho

its somewhat counterbalanced by slaanesh being locked up and having limited ability to do chaos god bullshit (still grants power to her followers though)

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/DiceyJune/status/1838450975763501187

Dicey "Contempt Creator" June (@DiceyJune) on X

Twitter · Sep 24, 2024, 5:30 AM

[solemn gull]

Wouldn’t killing the E stop the astronomicon?

[jaunty dawn]

the necrons dont need it

and neither would the ppl they set up

[floral herald]

Potentially about equally as significantly a good chunk of segmentum solar would fall into the warp

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/25/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-behold-the-first-balance-changes-to-the-latest-edition/

this is so nicely laid out

by which I kinda mean the bare minimum

[upper bluff]

Oh the only flesh eater change was a wording change

[pulsar cairn]

i love that

btw

is waternoose(the villain from the first Monsters S.A movie)a slaneesh demon?

[past sphinx]

and blow terra into the next century

[pulsar cairn]

wha

[past sphinx]

if big E eats the long goodbye the golden throne is set to take all of terra with it

and probably a portion of the solar system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXuimAeVhE8

extremely excellent video

[desert jay]

Thinking about Rhinos and how they're the iconic Space Marine vehicle

And that they're probably going away in a later SM release wave... but only from SM

Because the kits are still used in eight other 10e codices

[past sphinx]

preds and rhinos are so central to CSM it would be real weird if they got replaced with something

then again

when was the last time you saw a razorback

[spice flicker]

Grey knights

[desert jay]

TBH, SM Razorbacks have terrible rules in 10e

[past sphinx]

really? dope

[thin ibex]

Do they? I thought they got the fire support rule for like bonus to wound or hit for units that got out, which seems fine?

The issue is what they can carry

Which is not much

[upper bluff]

They can only transport old Marines lol

[desert jay]

AIUI, can basically only transport Devastator squads or understrength Tactical squads

[floral herald]

Nice my gravelords snuck through

[spice flicker]

Any updates on the eta of or what you're predicting for the 40k points update?

[desert jay]

Oh there's also Vulkan He'stan who can fit without leading a squad b/c he's the last non-primaris epic hero

[past sphinx]

castallan crow isnt over the rubicon right?

[desert jay]

Grey Knights don't count

There are no GK Primaris

[desert jay]

Or at the very least, the last w/o a primaris armor keyword or termie armor

Oh wait I also found Ezekiel

But Ezekiel is a metal model still

And inexplicably still available for sale

[pastel rampart]

If GK Primaris happen I suspect it'll be if/when they get a whole redesign. Which will be uh...idk 2030 lmao

[desert jay]

Oh found a few SW chars too

Still, not a long list

[thin ibex]

The razorback itself, like it's guns and stats, are fine, it's that it has such limited application

Can it carry grey hunters still?

[upper bluff]

Yes! Space wolves is currently the best place for it

But, I'm certain their codex will change that

[uneven ember]

Black Dragons are great
They all sprout horns and bone spikes and shit, which they sharpen and reinforce to use as close combat weapons
Inquisitors are really concerned about it because, obviously, but all the geneseed they tithe tests as clear from mutation

Which could suggest that a) the tests are wrong and bad, b) something else is causing the mutations, or c) they're sending in someone else's geneseed

[tired cairn]

What counts as "free from mutation" for geneseeds anyways? Don't basically all chapters' deviate from the expected baseline?

I like how they are very unsubtly wolverine inspired

[untold swallow]

I think in a lot of cases that's intensely subjective to show how arbitrary the Imperium's definition is, as is probably the Doylist reason for such subjectivity

[uneven ember]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's like an "accepted variance" thing
Like you can deal with the guys who lose the Betcher Gland or their eyes turn black but catching on spectral fire is a bridge too far

[untold swallow]

The Fists' eyes turn black?

[uneven ember]

That should've been an "or"

[tired cairn]

lmao what tests are they doing that doesn't also involve looking at the space marine lol

[untold swallow]

oh lol

[uneven ember]

"Please submit your tithed geneseed for sample analysis."
"Sure thing, here you go."
"And come along so we can have a look."
"Make me."

[untold swallow]

I am slowly discovering how weird making a chapter that's generally cooperative with the Inquisition is lmao

[tired cairn]

I mean, it's not like the retractable bone spikes are a secret

[untold swallow]

"What do you mean you volunteer your geneseed?"

[tired cairn]

Though maybe the actual problem is the Imperium disapproves of GMO geneseeds

[untold swallow]

"The successors of Holy Malcador, the Ashen Sigillite, are our staunch allies in fighting the threats to the Imperium. Why are you not volunteering yours?"

[desert jay]

IIRC they establish an initial baseline for each chapter and the monitoring is to make sure there’s not further drift

[uneven ember]

But also the IoM's ideas of generic purity are all bullshit and subjective.
The planet who decided "free from mutation" meant they needed to kill 99.999% of the planet's population was made a holy site by the Ecclisiarchy

Beastmen are abhuman and Squats are xenos (usually)

[tired cairn]

True

[untold swallow]

are the members of the Leagues and the Squats on like, Necromunda the same group of abhumans?

[tired cairn]

GW being surprisingly not-too-on-the-nose by making the 21st founding the cursed one instead of the 13th

[untold swallow]

No, the 13th is cursed too

[ebon forge]

Youtube plz stop recommending me this kind of video, please

[untold swallow]

or at least made very, very secretive

[ebon forge]

Specially when the dude legit presents himself as this

[untold swallow]

yeah Arch is a shithead

[tired cairn]

The 13th doesn't get the title

[untold swallow]

Tru

[ebon forge]

Report
desinformation

[desert jay]

Oh ArchCast is the guy who was so bad GW sent a cease and desist to stop calling himself ArchWarhammer

[ebon forge]

HAHAHAHAHA

[uneven ember]

Yes.
At least, the same "stock" of abhumans. "Squats" are out in the frontier/IoM space instead of living in the LoV civilization

[tired cairn]

Making fun of Thatcher: clearly right-wing

[untold swallow]

immediately starts thinking of a League OC who was born a Squat on Necromunda

[uneven ember]

All previous space dwarves are folded into the LoV

[bright dove]

But sadly, the Leagues don't have TRAINS

[uneven ember]

(squats & the Demiurg are both LoV off shots and they even incorporated the "nids ate them" write out by saying a LoV empire got ate but the rest are fine)

[uneven ember]

Yeah as opposed to the guy who got a C&D to stop using a Black Templars avatar while streaming

[untold swallow]

"Oh the Exorcists are an IF successor"

sees a Captain or something with the Hexagrammaton tattooed on his face

[ebon forge]

That I don't know, but I have seem people using 40k stuff as their avatar (not a copy of a 3D model) and nothing happened

[uneven ember]

Yeah but I'm specifically making fun of Bobo

[ebon forge]

But yeah just-
The Right REALLY don't understand satire do they

[thin ibex]

I think its not just a right political leaning thing; I think a lot of people can miss satire, especially when confirmation bias is a thing

but chuds and warhammer have had a long relationship for sure

[onyx elm]

Does the satire just bounce off their skulls or do they not care because it's pretty much what they want? At this point, I don't think it matters which. They're both odious.

[onyx elm]

Also stating for the record that everything about this is infuriating and disgusting. It's the crooked eyebrow and smirk that just oozes the pseudo-intellectualism.

[tardy vault]

Balance update for AoS 4e!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/25/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-behold-the-first-balance-changes-to-the-latest-edition/

[spice flicker]

Just waiting for the new 40k points

[past sphinx]

gimmie cheaper csm

i want even more marines on the table

[marsh haven]

Given how primaris marines assigned to the Blood Angels are starting to develop susceptibility to The Black Rage it might be epigenetic

Like, being around enough mutated geneseed causes your own geneseed to react

[spice flicker]

If grey knights stay where they are I think I'll switch to them for my upcoming crusade I'm organizing over imperial agents. It doesn't matter if GW makes agents cheaper (for agents since they want to price some different for agents vs other imperial factions) the lack of armor and anti-armor is concerning.

The fact that agents only have transports for vehicles (including the blackstar since it's technically a deathwatch (non-dedicated) transport) for vehicles and outside the blackstar the biggest gun is a heavy bolter, the faction needs help.

[floral herald]

I think it’s straight up psychic

[soft willow]

It's got multi-meltas and meltas in almost every squad.

Still needs a proper anti-tank option though.

[spice flicker]

Which squads?

[soft willow]

Heavy Bolters aren't the biggest guns available.

Breachers, Imperial Agents, Sisters

All get melta or multi-melta.

[floral herald]

Meltas are a little iffy for anti-tank work in 10e without something to buff to-wound but I think Agents can get that fairly easily iirc

[soft willow]

Breachers can make their melta S10

Also breachers weirdly have anti-vehicle 3+ on the Chainfist.

None of it turns into reliable or meaningful anti-tank.

[soft willow]

Nope. No plus to wound options. Hit and re-roll to wound are doable though.

[floral herald]

RR to wound is enough I think

Meltas are so weird rn with super high damage but wounding most tanks on 5s

[soft willow]

Breachers grant it if the enemy is on an objective.

Otherwise it's reroll ones.

It's not reliable anti tank and you get cooked by anyone with a big enough flamer.

They need access to like a lascannon crew weapon or some weird anti-tank scrungos of some sort.

[spice flicker]

Meltas have anti-armor worthy damage but no good way of actually applying it thanks to strength issues and breachers not having any good transports besides rhinos (and maybe a Chimera if an Inquisitor is attached) but they shouldn't be in transports since you'll want to deep strike them and other deployment shenanigans.

[soft willow]

One could infiltrate them with a Rhino correct?

[spice flicker]

Most "reliable" anti-armor in my 750 points crusade list is an armiger helverin.

[spice flicker]

Dedicated transports only pick up the scout keyword from occupants not infiltrate.

[soft willow]

A Warglaive or a big Knight is the more reliable option for Agents cracking armor.

[spice flicker]

Unless you use an Enhancement.

[soft willow]

Yeah no good options for a jeep then.

[floral herald]

I guess you could bring a Harpoon Knight

[spice flicker]

Can't afford a warglaive in the last at 750.

[spice flicker]

Not at 750 points.

[soft willow]

My current plan is the other Dominus class but yeah.

[floral herald]

750 is always gonna be a fucky points value to play at because skew beats tac at that point value

[granite basin]

I can't believe I missed a BONE mention, dammit!

What a genuinely legendary series

[spice flicker]

Even then I think I'd rather the three armigers than a single big knigjt.

[floral herald]

I’d just lean into skew yourself and flood the field with infiltrating bodies

[soft willow]

A chimera with two agent squads gets to fire their multi-meltas using Firing Deck.

Which is a goofy weird trick that almost makes that worth it?

[spice flicker]

This is the 750 points list for agents I'm working with.

[soft willow]

You're set on taking a generic inquisitor?

[spice flicker]

This is for crusade and I only have 5 points to work with.

The inqusitor was going to partner with a subductor squad and both squads (with Inquisitor) were to infiltrate. The rogue trader group were to partner with voidsmen and camp the home objective while the other voidsmen squad and the breachers would deepstrike.

[uneven ember]

I mean, good.
Not trying to be one of the RAR PRIMARIS guys (a half-step away from the AGE OF SHITMAR AMIRITE sorts) but I don't know why they thought canonically making their new range get rid of all the fun and interesting stuff with the different Chapters was a good idea

[thin ibex]

i honestly dont hate tha dynamic with meltas

woah

thanks for updating chat

[spice flicker]

Hmmm...

[untold swallow]

lmao. My homebrew DAngels successors are basically veni-yan warriors

btw how lorebreaking would a librarian-chaplain be?

[tepid stratus]

Very. Keeping the librarius in line is part of the chaplains duties

[untold swallow]

Fairs

Sadface

[past sphinx]

you dont want the people sorting out warp influence well

being the warp influenced

chaplains dont really make much sense to begin with to me, we know what happens when marines self police

[untold swallow]

I can just give my deathwatch librarian in phobos armor a reiver mask lmao

[past sphinx]

its why leandros was right

[untold swallow]

lmao

[thin ibex]

https://www.vxtiktok.com/t/ZP8RP72jd/

[pulsar cairn]

i hate it

[jagged dawn]

this one's just us having fun tbh

Enhancement: Panoply of the Cursed Knights (+40 pts)
Char2: 1x Knight Rampager (405 pts): Diabolus heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Warpstrike claw
Enhancement: Lord of Dread (+25 pts)

1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Brigand (170 pts): Armoured feet, Avenger chaincannon, Daemonbreath spear, Diabolus heavy stubber
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Diabolus heavy stubber
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Havoc multi-launcher
1x War Dog Karnivore (140 pts): Reaper chaintalon, Slaughterclaw, Havoc multi-launcher

10x Bloodletters (120 pts)
  8 with Hellblade
  1 with Daemonic Icon, Hellblade
  1 with Instrument of Chaos, Hellblade
10x Bloodletters (120 pts)
  8 with Hellblade
  1 with Daemonic Icon, Hellblade
  1 with Instrument of Chaos, Hellblade```

[floral herald]

https://x.com/deltythe73rd/status/1838870465705828569?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

delty (@DeltyThe73rd) on X

ARGHHHH I HAVE TO BUILD THE MODEL KIT THAT I WILLINGLY BOUGHT

Twitter · Sep 25, 2024, 9:17 AM

[tardy vault]

When I pay for a model it should spontaniously appear on my shelf fully built and painted exactly how I want it

[jaunty dawn]

me but that's me screaming happily

and also me when it's model kits that other people willingly bought

[rocky shale]

I love getting kits as gifts but my friends have the uncanny ability to pick out the most frustrating kits for every faction that I own

Shroud runners...

[jagged dawn]

We’re in this and don’t like it

[floral herald]

I do enjoy it but I also make it a pain in the ass for myself with kitbashing and magnets

[soft willow]

Honestly this meme is how I feel about the Warhound titan right now.

So much prep work before I can even start assembling it.

[south axle]

LI or 40k Warhound?

[jagged dawn]

We’ve procrastinated on assembling our war dogs over our insistence on magnetizing them

Which ran into the small problem of us moving to a new house this summer and not having our tools for magnetizing accessible

[pine matrix]

Love to build, neutral to negative about painting but I am too proud to pay someone to paint them for me

I'm saying this after painting more of my Raiders and Ravager

Why did I pick the spikiest army ever to spike

[soft willow]

40k.

The LI ones are quick plastic kits that go together nicely.

[untold swallow]

I cannot express my disappointment in the knowledge the Blood Eagles were a Blood Angels successor, and not a Space Wolves one

[floral herald]

No the Wolf Eagles were the space wolves successor there

[untold swallow]

lmao

[past sphinx]

I'm fond of these boys

The bases need some pizazz

[blazing knoll]

Painted up a new guy, second model for a new Imperial Fists collection. A lot of firsts on this model, first time using transfers, first time painting a model that has a lot of pose options (Or moving parts in general.) First time trying the yellow on such a large model. Still waiting on some paint for the base (local shop had to order it in) BUT I'm happy with how he turned out!

[past sphinx]

That is some bright ass yellow fist

now put it in the streaking grime

[blazing knoll]

Haha noooo, I like the clean! XD

ALSO a first time trying to freehand that darn mechanicus symbol on the back

[past sphinx]

Letting the boys play in the mud in enriching in their containment

[blazing knoll]

The powerwash simulator skitarii has been hard at work

[jagged dawn]

Looks awesome Noot

[blazing knoll]

Thanks! :)

[floral herald]

It's rare to see IFs that yellow that's sick

[blazing knoll]

I just followed the tutorial that the official Warhammer channel has on YouTube for painting their terminators for the colour. Funnily enough, theirs looks even brighter! 😅

This guy is the very first model I did for the collection, still have yet to add transfers to him (thought it would be easier to learn to do on flat, large plates first)

[granite basin]

hazard yellow vs the unmatched power of the sun

[blazing knoll]

I like the yellow, it doesn't work that well to make amazingly good looking models, but put a whole army of yellow boys on a tabletop and it's really quite striking!

[past sphinx]

That would look really cool with the HH colors

The black pads and such

High contrast

[blazing knoll]

Heresy stuff is a maybe for me. I find primaris scale marines hard enough to get all the details as is, and with the loss of Castraferrum Dreadnoughts, I don't really like the style of much firstborn or Heresy era stuff :/
Would be cool to paint maybe one squad though, or perhaps a Leviathan Dread, those guys are metal AF

[past sphinx]

repent thy sins and embrace ORB

[jagged dawn]

Honestly we much prefer some of the Horus Heresy colour schemes over their 40k iterations

Death guard, world eaters, space wolves

[floral herald]

HH Death Guard look great

[jagged dawn]

And we’re just a sucker for Mk II

[jagged dawn]

Luna wolves/sons of Horus are also good

[past sphinx]

sons of horus scheme is good as hell

[uneven ember]

(oh hey the dude has a Maltese cross)

[bold halo]

went to narrow down my options for a spearhead box to pick up

the list got longer

"I'll just look at them all to be sure, but probably won't want anything else"

THIS GUY

forgot how much I love tzeentch's funky little demons too

gdi

LOOK AT THAT GUY

[uneven ember]

Ahhh I love this dude

[bold halo]

I'm basically doing a two part check of 1. do I vibe with the entire contents of the spearhead and 2. would I actually want to collect more of that army after finishing it

wait do idoneth deepkin just like, not have much of a range at all or am I missing something

[tardy vault]

They just don't have much of a range

Welcome to AoS

If you're not Stormcast Eternals you ain't got shit

[pastel rampart]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYRSt1WWIAAT_oT?format=jpg&name=900x900

[bold halo]

I mean most of the factions I'm looking at have a solid range, idoneth are the only outlier I've seen

fuckin

spearhead plus a single digit of other kits vs 30+ for everything else

[tardy vault]

Daughters of Khaine have four kits

And 7 characters (discounting X on Cauldron of Blood stuff)

[bold halo]

oof

[tardy vault]

Fyreslayers have very little as well

Elfs and dwarfs got divided into a whole bunch of different armies

so they only have tiny slices of various WFB armies

[bold halo]

yeah I'm sitting on old 7th edition dark elves so I'm aware of the carving up that happened, just didn't know the range was so small for the divvied up bits

[tardy vault]

Yeah, the divvied them up then gave then very little on top

[bold halo]

oh shit orks have pure sweet fat of the hog

that's a very good big pig

ok I've actually got it narrowed a little to orks, goblins, slaanesh, tzeentch, gravelords

[untold swallow]

How does this sound for a Deathwatch rpg campaign? "Unknown Death on Epna Tertia"

[peak olive]

I <3 daemons

[bold halo]

but at the same time these skeletons are SO GOOD

[past sphinx]

Gw needs to release a box to go with its skulls called "the rest of the fucking skeleton"

having a boney hand in the dirt or a rib cage would be incredibly nice for basing

[pastel rampart]

https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/classic-fantasy/products/skeleton-infantry do I have the box for you

[past sphinx]

NOW WE COOKIN

32?!

man i forgot how good of a deal WA can be

[pastel rampart]

YEAH

You could easily turn that to 40 skelebros if you get inventive with basing.

[cosmic tulip]

Sent this to my Soulblight buddy

He explicitly wants to make a skeleton army

[bold halo]

ok daughters of khaine may have a small range but they have the best endless spells hands down

[bright dove]

That's a good list.

[bold halo]

I think I've landed on gravelords

always wanted to play vampire counts back in the day and now blood knights aren't $200 for five minis

[bright dove]

Yeeeee

Hell yeah, Gravelords rule.

[tardy vault]

Yeah, they're pretty good

[mild glen]

Internet hivemind! A question!
Is it possible for a stormcast eternal to succumb to the Soulblight, or would they just be Reforged?

[bold halo]

thrilled to find out they still have the playstyle of like, just continually packing more zombies back into a unit as quickly as they lose them

being able to deep strike a unit of undead is cool as hell too

[untold swallow]

hmmm

dark angels librarian equivalent of a frost sword...

would a power weapon field and force weapon electronics interfere with one another?

[past sphinx]

i dont believe force weapons have electrical bits

ah wait

they do but putting a power field on a force weapon is a bit like this

[untold swallow]

lmao

[floral herald]

Yeah generally force weapons aren't powered

The force weapon part is, iirc, basically a carefully carved psychoactive piece of stone or metal inside the blade

[untold swallow]

well they have circuitry and technomagic doodads

the power source instead of a battery is just

the psyker

[past sphinx]

you could give em a fancy combi sword

combi-forcespear

volkite or somethin

grav

[uneven ember]

Yeah I feel like psyker stuff in 40k can use tech shit or magic shit or both

[floral herald]

it's the runic stripy part on the weapon

[untold swallow]

combi-weapons feel a bit... odd to me tbh

or at least

melee & ranged combi

Like that's one of the main reasons I don't like Custodes lol

[uneven ember]

Disagree that rules

[granite basin]

custodes are arguably the most practical version of it, bc spearguns are based

[untold swallow]

I mean ur allowed to think they're cool

[floral herald]

Aha

Force weapons take the form of swords, spears, or other close combat weapons. Within the structure of the weapon is interwoven a powerful psi-convector, formed into a precise serpentine shape which concentrates and directs psychic energy. This sometimes appears as a pattern on the blade. If a non-psyker takes up such a weapon, it functions as a standard weapon.

[untold swallow]

counterpoint; powered bayonets on shoulderable, and therefore aimable rifles exist

why did you make a whole spear and attach an extremely frontheavy gun to it

Instead of making a rifle with a bayonet

[floral herald]

I don't think it's impossible to put a power field generator on a force weapon but you'd need to turn it off to use the psychic goodies properly I think

[untold swallow]

fs in the chat

[granite basin]

bc custodes don't need those considerations, generally

[untold swallow]

And there is the rub, it exposes a deeper reason I don't like the Custodes <XD

[past sphinx]

be like eisenhorn and give em a fucking lightsaber

[untold swallow]

god no

[past sphinx]

but like a big lightsaber

[floral herald]

There's a fun lightsaber-y weapon in one of the dark heresy books

[granite basin]

lightclaymore

[floral herald]

I forget which one

[untold swallow]

if you're talking about being able to deflect bullets I mean

[floral herald]

It's very 40k-ified though

[uneven ember]

That was a power sword, right?
Or did he get a force sword?

[untold swallow]

there's a talent that lets me do that instead lmao

[past sphinx]

a power sword that was just a hilt and a power field

[floral herald]

Basically a plasma pistol with a weird form factor

[past sphinx]

its why his model is randomly holding a rod

[untold swallow]

man I wish my ballistic skill in DW wasn't

hot garbage

[past sphinx]

did not translate well

just take a heavy flamer naturally

[untold swallow]

as faaaaaar as I know

[past sphinx]

full huron

[untold swallow]

Those still make ballistics tests?

[floral herald]

Do they in Deathwatch?

They didn't in most of the 40k rpgs

[untold swallow]

OH SHIT THEY DON'T?

OH BOY HERE I GO ROASTING AGAIN

[past sphinx]

embrace the flame sister

[untold swallow]

FUCK AVENGER

ALL MY HOMIES HATE AVENGER

[floral herald]

They might in DW

[uneven ember]

Anyway
Polearms are the most "palace guard" weapon
The only mistake they made with the Custodes is having them wear shirts

[untold swallow]

I'M SMOKING THAT NOCTURNE TECHMARINE-FORGED XENOS BURNING EVIL PACK

[floral herald]

I know in DH1E they just made all targets test agility to avoid the flame with a +30 if the firer wasn't proficient with flame weapons

[untold swallow]

It's the same in DW I just read it

[floral herald]

Yeah flamers are the "traditional" weapons of MFs who can't aim in the FFG games haha

[uneven ember]

"flamers: a great weapon unless you and/ or the environment you're using the flamer in happen to be flammable"

[past sphinx]

simply be inflammable

[floral herald]

This is pretty easy in deathwatch

[untold swallow]

God

[floral herald]

You just need like Toughness 50 to stop taking damage while on fire

You still take some other debuffs because it is very distracting

[untold swallow]

Dark Angels successor librarian in phobos armor and a reiver mask just pulls up

unholsters a hand flamer

fwoosh

[uneven ember]

I can't remember which RPG had people pointing out that the "complete darkness" penalty was more severe than the "on fire" penalty and what that implied strategically

[untold swallow]

I can agree they're the most palace guard weapon, I still just am never gonna like Bolters In Dumb Places

[untold swallow]

amazing lmao

[past sphinx]

its the only place bolters should be

peak grey knights era

[untold swallow]

oh so you like the grey knight storm bolters that are bigger than their goddamn arms

[granite basin]

bolters are always viable

[untold swallow]

Oh my god you do

XD

[floral herald]

I actually think that guardian spears are more reasonable than wrist mounted weapons for use with long two handed melee weapons

It's far from the ugliest combi-weapon at least

(Which is probably one of the awful hack jobs Chosen tote around)

[past sphinx]

i want a bolter everywhere except where they should be

[untold swallow]

I agree the bolter pikes are more reasonable, yeah

and there are versions of the wrist bolter I can... stand?

[past sphinx]

and i wanna see them boys pretty peepers without them helmets

[untold swallow]

i.e. smaller and belt-fed

[past sphinx]

does this combibolter look like something the limited mind of a techpreist could build?

[floral herald]

This one (not my model) on the left is fucken transendent imo

[untold swallow]

amazing

[floral herald]

Horrifying over/under job, shared barrel between the plasma and the bolter, top mounted bayonet because BUIS are for corpse-lapdogs

[uneven ember]

I still feel like one of my favorite bits of 40K mechanics and narrative overlap is "the Imperial Navy's city spaceships can take a Power Ram upgrade"

[past sphinx]

if you are far enough away to need sights you are not worthy of fighting with the legions

the dark gods know their own

let them guide the bolts

[floral herald]

I also love that one since its so obviously like, just a flamer flipped upside down and mounted above a hacked up bolter

[past sphinx]

wait gotta find the primaris combi plasma

[untold swallow]

this talk of flamers is reminding me that instead of making a weird force/power sword

I could just

[floral herald]

Oh I was too slow

[past sphinx]

lost technology

[untold swallow]

make a force sword relic that does insert cool psychic power here

[floral herald]

The top mounted box mag is great

[past sphinx]

its fucking perfect

the excellent old termi combi

[untold swallow]

amazing

That's

is that a double-feeding bolter?

[past sphinx]

top fed from mag, bottom fed by belt and both into a single bolter

[untold swallow]

amazing

[past sphinx]

melta for grudges and bayonet for when the powders wet

men of sophistication and class

[floral herald]

Chaos terminators are the most classy and sophisticated fighters on 41st millenium battlefields

[plucky token]

no no, see, clearly, that bottom belt is ammo for the chainbayonet 😌 /s

[past sphinx]

Its got one of those old desiel motors you need a shotgun blank yo start

[floral herald]

It honestly looks like melta fuel is piped in to run the chainsaw motor

[past sphinx]

What is even in those cannisters

Superheated gas?

No its a microwave

Or is that volkite

[floral herald]

Melta fuel :p

[past sphinx]

Leaded gasoline

[floral herald]

(GW is both really inconsistent in explaining how meltas work and none of the explanations really make sense)

It could be diesel for all we know

[past sphinx]

Maybe coolant

[granite basin]

there's at least three different kinda guns that Make Real Hot Stuff and i'm not sure how to distinguish two of them

[mild glen]

Meltas work through... checks notes Space Magic.

[past sphinx]

Melta melts things volkite makes things hot like holistically

[granite basin]

volkites are death rays. plasma is plasma and meltas are.... well yeah i guess that's the name

[past sphinx]

And phosphorus weapons are just that

[floral herald]

I love how Lexicanum just doesn't say shit about how they work https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Meltagun

[granite basin]

to be fair, guns that shoot fireballs are rad as fuck

[floral herald]

"How does it work?" "Fairly quietly"
"What does it shoot?" "Enemy vehicles before they get a chance to fight"

[granite basin]

they have to be like super fireballs, bc if they're not then they're plasma, and if they're not plasma or fire what the fuck are they

[floral herald]

Different lore pieces have described them as microwaves, hot gas, or fusion blasts

[granite basin]

maybe it's a blanket term-

[floral herald]

They also depending on the exact lore have no report beyond a hiss as moisture in their path vaporizes, and sometimes are described with no visual sign except for a heat haze