like were they chasing that halo craze so much they thought that a guy was cooler than a big robot?
#Warhammer and Such
uneven ember
"crouch behind the chest-high wall" was all the rage in those days
jaunty dawn
no they're saying fire warrior is halo
upper bluff
but yeah crisis suits have so much customization even in the tabletop that making a game out of it seems obvious
like just imagine, 4 player co-op crisis suit gameplay, the villains would probably be another xenos faction because they'd be too worried about fighting humans
necrons could be cool, small enemies that are still reasonably dangerous to you
instead of the mecha game trope of crowd of guys who just plink off your armor
floral herald
"crouch behind the chest-high wall" was all the rage in those days
I don’t think it was yet Fire Warrior is from 2003
Came out the same year as the original call of duty
thin ibex
fire warrior i think was in the time of "you walk around and side strafe while shooting at stuff" shooters
instead of the "this place is curiously filled with chest high walls" era
i think they didn't do crisis suits because the technology of the time didnt really allow for satisfying mech piloting experience
floral herald
I disagree there - good ass armored cores came out before Fire Warrior
thin ibex
i hope if theres a remake, its by the titanfall guys
well, having the transitions between foot and mech i mean
and i forget, was armored core into its hyper mobile era yet by then?
cause that fits crisis suits better than clonkier era
floral herald
Oh yeah fair having you be able to get out might have been hard
soft willow
Shogo Mobile Armor Division did it so it wasn’t a tech thing per se.
solemn gull
no they're saying fire warrior *is* halo
Right and I’m saying if firewarrior instead had crisis suits or other mecha it would probably take after OG titanfall
finite compass
Honestly
At this point I'm sort of thinking 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
And thinking of maybe doing some Cadians up as old-school Necromundan guard
ebon forge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F4U7Vpw1IY Arthur made a very nice video on Angron :3
solemn gull
Hell yeah they are my fav guard regiment
pastel rampart
City Fight my beloved.
past sphinx
wait it was cities of death i think
pastel rampart
Still want to do a city board one day, though Mordheim hits a similar itch and is more applicable to more types of games I guess.
pastel rampart
They are not, that hasn't been in production for a long while.
Which sucks cuz that terrain whipped ass. Super modular.
finite compass
wait it was cities of death i think
No, that was Cityfight
Cities of Death had Vostroyans
I think that was what they introduced them for, actually
spice flicker
Hosting a battle in tts later between two people who never played 40k before but a general idea of the rules. It's someone who has never played custodes and someone who has never played eldar before. Any advice I can pass along to the eldar player for dealing with custodes?
For reference here is the eldar 750 points army
sonic hare
anyone know what a good space marine unit to counter skorpekh destroyers would be?
my buddy who I play with has lamented that his assault intercessors are being brutalized by my cleavy boys and his bday is coming up so I wanted to level the playing field
spice flicker
Do you want a melee or ranged unit? Infantry or vehicles?
rocky shale
For reference here is the eldar 750 points army
Definitely don't take that aircraft
spice flicker
I've been telling him that for days
The custodes players already plans to deal with it with venatari+lethal hits on 5+
rocky shale
Also at 750 pts with hawks and spiders he's gonna wipee the floor with custodes if he just plays secondary objectives
But yeah a war walker would be substantially more useful
Star glaive is also generally the best autarch melee
Starcannons are also not normally great but against custodes it's probably solid
spice flicker
They already rolled off to determine who goes first and it's the eldar player. Custodes plans to deep strike the venatari close enough to charge the aircraft turn 2 and the allarus I advised to deepstrike against the warp spiders and pray he gets lucky against overwatch.
rocky shale
The spiders and hawks should ideally just never see combat
spice flicker
My suggested list for the eldar play was something along the lines of this:
rocky shale
Those scoring units can outrun custodes all day
rocky shale
My suggested list for the eldar play was something along the lines of this:
I'd swap scorpions and one unit of runners for a war walker or something for anti-tank but otherwise this is better, yeah
Custodes aren't fast enough to be a problem to outmanuever
spice flicker
Custodes player has got a shield captain escorted by 5 spear guards and 2 squads of prosecutors (5 and 4 girl squads)
valid brook
got damn that Karl Kopinski cover for Cityfight goes way too hard
rocky shale
Yeah you can just ignore the spear guard
spice flicker
It's amatuer hour so we know how things will go but my money is on the custodes player unless he rolls poorly
rocky shale
If the eldar player tried to kill the guard, he loses
If he kills the sisters then just sits on objectives, ezpz
spice flicker
Custodes plans on charging the guard through the battlefield to the home objective where there are storm guardians (for more fate dice), the farseer, and dark reapers.
It will be interesting to see how things go
finite compass
got damn that Karl Kopinski cover for Cityfight goes way too hard
More Karl Kopinski art goes way too hard.
valid brook
He really is that guy
Come to think of it, he might’ve done the cover for Cities of Death as well
finite compass
Like "Look, these are just basic Empire infantry, no reason to go crazy with the box art."
"Got it. Not too crazy."
valid brook
Far and away my personal favorite artist to ever work for GW
valid brook
Absolutely the top three to ever do it.
I would have picked Exactly those three names if asked
rocky shale
Custodes plans on charging the guard through the battlefield to the home objecti...
The guardians are gonna die but they're gonna get a couple turns of delaying the guard. The reapers should probably just camp a side objective and take pot shots to kill the sisters. The hawks and spiders can also clean up the sisters then just play secondaries or camp objectives.
The plane is gonna kill 1 custodes then die
solemn gull
Olay but who are your favourite sculptors from GW
Personally the Perry twins did the coolest looking dudes imo
granite basin
john blanche is superb. even before i was getting into 40k proper (which is now p much) i recognized how fucking Rad his art is
sonic hare
Do you want a melee or ranged unit? Infantry or vehicles?
Ranged unit would be good. I don't know if I want to spend on a vehicle but a vehicle rec would be useful I can check what my lgs sells em for
spice flicker
Ranged unit would be good. I don't know if I want to spend on a vehicle but a ve...
Eliminators are good snipers especially if paired with phobos librarian or lieutenant. Terminators are nice. Gladiator reaper isn't bad for massed fire. If your budget allows it, armigers are $94.50 on gw's website for a pair and can be magnetized to be helervin (double autocannons)or warglaives (melta cannon+melee weaponl
The armigers are also arguably the cheapest option pointswise since helverin are 140 points and warglaives are 150
pastel rampart
thin ibex
Gonna try my hand at some full mechanized lists, infantry, transports, light armor
spice flicker
Gonna try my hand at some full mechanized lists, infantry, transports, light ...
Well for guard you can easily do it since if you have a militarium tempestus Scions Command squad as warlord then Scions become battleline. Chimeras are 70 pts, tauroxes are 65 and taurox primes are 90. So you could do 6 tauroxes and taurox primes for 930 points. Spend 660 points for 6 msu of Scions and cadians and when Combined with the transports is 1590 points. For 125 pts each you can do catachans with double flamers in chimeras bringing you up to 1965 points if you do this three time. If you include 1 commissar then you have 2 officers, 120 infantry, and 15 vehicles to carry said vehicles in for 2000 points. Arguably the best motorized idea I could think of.
thin ibex
I did scions a few times already
This time I did just normal guard
Lascannon toting chimera
spice flicker
I suggested scions since the taurox primes are the best transports
thin ibex
Yeah if the t primes could carry kasrkins or normal guys I would have brought em, but alas
The platoon command squad can start inside the chimera abs deliver orders while the chimera shoots with the lascannon, hb, and multilaser
spice flicker
Why preachers?
thin ibex
Because the catachans are gonna get contested on the point/ charge people who intend to contest them
Assuming they are still alive to do so
spice flicker
I would just keep them in the transports as long as you can and then use the transports to block LoS
Running double heavy flamers+double flamers from catachans can be fun
sonic hare
Eliminators are good snipers especially if paired with phobos librarian or lieut...
thank you so much ill have a peep at all of those!
solemn gull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9zZUtm9zLU
Miscast is my idol when it comes to art stuff
thin ibex
Oh yeah I do like the quad flamer chimera, poor man's hellhound
thin ibex
floral herald
Space Marine 2 is making me think about a Stormcast action game ngl
mild glen
like just imagine, 4 player co-op crisis suit gameplay, the villains would proba...
The obvious correct answer is to fight Alderi in SP, possibly Drukhari and have both allied and on-allied Astra Militarum.
PvP multi-player can just be Trials by Fire
tepid stratus
Space Marine 2 is making me think about a Stormcast action game ngl
I am continually reminded the AOS games we have so far are mediocre as hell
still warren
don't you mean the AOS game has been mediocre?
pulsar cairn
Will thay make plague marines angry?
still warren
wait fuck there are two, the turnbased one and the newer rts
tepid stratus
don't you mean the AOS game has been mediocre?
The video games specifically have been lackluster. The wargame itself is fantastic
floral herald
I am continually reminded the AOS games we have so far are mediocre as hell
That was true of 40K games in the past tbf
still warren
The video games specifically have been lackluster. The wargame itself is fantast...
oh yeah I know AOS is great just forgot that there was more than one AOS videogame
tepid stratus
That was true of 40K games in the past tbf
Yeah but we already cracked the code on good 40k games before AOS had games. I was hoping we'd skip the slop era
pastel rampart
Space Marine 2 is making me think about a Stormcast action game ngl
Actually wait I change my answer from earlier, stormcast soulslike.
floral herald
You know… fair
tepid stratus
Actually wait I change my answer from earlier, stormcast soulslike.
That'd actually be rad
pastel rampart
It'd be perfect because we got an excuse for the die-and-come-back, and you model the "I lost something" by...well, rune/souls drop on death.
mild glen
Open World Cado Ezechair game
pastel rampart
World can be a bit like Demon's Souls with a central hub and you go off into the other realms through various gates.
tepid stratus
Open World Cado Ezechair game
Fucking sold. I'm already a mark for cool soulblight shit and I've been loving his books
tepid stratus
World can be a bit like Demon's Souls with a central hub and you go off into the...
The bonfires can be azyros lanterns. Hub is a stormkeep
floral herald
Oh, and you’ve got respawn mechanics
tepid stratus
Or just hammerhall
mild glen
Do you want to be a dispossessed vampire king with the souls of his family stuck in rings taking to you and OH YEAH, A GHOST DRAGON YOU CAN RIDE?
pastel rampart
Yeah but I'd also like to fight that dispossessed vampire king riding a ghost dragon because that's a badass boss idea.
still warren
what about like a real traditional rpg but you start as a flesh eater ghoul?
tepid stratus
Well that's horrific
still warren
slay five peasants boars
tepid stratus
On every level up you get a peak at your horrid reality
tepid stratus
Yeah but I'd also like to *fight* that dispossessed vampire king riding a ghost ...
Cado does give nameless king vibes but with blood magic instead of lightning
pastel rampart
Looking up Cado, yeah I can see that working for a game. Maybe not quite soulslike, but probably closer to most 3rd person action games. Could be shortly after his un-life began and having to track down those rings, stolen from him by some Tzeentchian asshole.
Maybe something akin to Darksiders in gameplay.
granite basin
Yeah but we already cracked the code on good 40k games before AOS had games. I w...
the thing about games workshop, and especially so abt their 40k license, is that they will hand it out to basically anyone who asks. this means the avg quality of games varies wildly- you can have just hogfuck awful doo doo bad games, or ones that actually push into a solidly made, passionate AA niche.
more likelihood to get bad or mediocre games, but i can't think of any other arrangement that lets, say, streum on have as much fun with an IP beyond literally giving them the keys to the kingdom lmao
tepid stratus
Looking up Cado, yeah I can see that working for a game. Maybe not quite soulsli...
DMC style game but stance switching is changing which spirit he's using. That's basically how his tabletop rules work already
pastel rampart
Well there you go, game practically writes itself.
ebon forge
Question, for a more complex symbol on the pauldron like the Sons of the Phoenix one, do they use stickers, or just-
Tiny brush and a steady arm?
floral herald
I think often those are custom transfers
But there are sickos out there who freehand them, especially for single models
I think that one's a transfer
tepid stratus
Question, for a more complex symbol on the pauldron like the Sons of the Phoenix...
Why must the secret loyalists be so much cooler than anything GW does with EC proper!?
ebon forge
Why must the secret loyalists be so much cooler than anything GW does with EC pr...
Whatr you mean secret?
Cawl told me they are from Dorn geneseed
floral herald
I mean EC hasn't gotten a model since like, idk years and years
I am pretty skeptical of pretty much all of the "this loyalist chapter is secretly from traitor geneseed" personally
tepid stratus
I mean EC hasn't gotten a model since like, idk years and years
More than just models I'm pretty sure the sons of the Phoenix have gotten more lore in the past 3 editions than EC have lol
floral herald
Except for Silver Skulls I can buy that one
tepid stratus
Plus the colour scheme just bangs man. So much better than pink and black
ebon forge
Except for Silver Skulls I can buy that one
My favorite Sanctioned Xenos /j
pastel rampart
I mean EC hasn't gotten a model since like, idk years and years
Fabius Bile if we want to get a bit loose with EC-specific models, but the actual last EC model was that 80s throwback noise marine with the guitar amd mohawk.
floral herald
Except for Silver Skulls I can buy that one
It's extremely subtle see
ebon forge
Plus the colour scheme just bangs man. So much better than pink and black
The color scheme sells the entire chapter alone tbh, everything else is a bonus
Also, is nice how , while the Black Templars are the rage filled Templars, Sons of the Phoenix are the flamboyant awe-inspiring Paladins
tepid stratus
It's a shame I find most loyalist stuff boring as sin because I'd love to run some of the Phoenix
I've gotten much more confident with painting white over the years
finite compass
That was true of 40K games in the past tbf
Depends on how far in the past we're talking
Like Final Liberation old? Chaos Gate? Dawn of War?
Granted everything from DoW II to SM2 has been mid to terrible.
also I lack the conversion skill for it, but if I did loyalist marines, I'd probably try for, like, Carcharodons with a bunch of creepy sea-life/nautical touches. Like this guy
ebon forge
Carcharodons are 40k before Angron War Hounds for loyalist /j
uneven ember
I am pretty skeptical of pretty much all of the "this loyalist chapter is secret...
I mean I'm usually on board with you but the Sons of the Phoenix...
I feel like signs are there
Like the color scheme. And the name.
The least traitor-y answer is that Cawl had run out of theme ideas and settled on "make palate -swapped EC out of Fists geneseed"
floral herald
Beyond "they are also purple" I don't really see a crossover
ebon forge
'Phoenix' apparently is also very Fulgrin assigned, as well teh flamboyant part they display during crusades
floral herald
'Phoenix' apparently is also very Fulgrin assigned, as well teh flamboyant part ...
The latter isn't really an EC thing though
ebon forge
Sorry, what's EC?
floral herald
Emperor's Children
ebon forge
Ah!
True, but yeah is the fandom being stupid again
Like how it took years for people to stop saying Orks ahve 'the power of the imagination to make anything work!"
And the only fan characters of the SotP look like Fulgrin's children doe snot help
floral herald
The EC "hat" was basically being "more neurotic Ultramarines" not a sort of Fire Angels/Black Templars ish showy religious crusade thing
uneven ember
They weren't showy religious crusaders but they were definitely going for style points at every step
ebon forge
'Showy' as in
"They are constantly on crusade, which are led by their Chaplains. Their crusades are so impressive in spectacle they pave the way for the Imperial Creed to spread across the galaxy, and hence are followed by a great many holy men and women of the Adeptus Ministorum."
The spectacle is a big difference, since they inspired people to actually become holy persons of the Ministorum
floral herald
I haven't read it but this makes me curious about their initial article, which was in white dwarf
paper bluff
And no one talks about the salamanders primaris successor "The covenant of Fire"
paper bluff
And no one talks about the salamanders primaris successor "The covenant of Fire"
The Covenant of Fire crave knowledge of the Imperium they fight for, seeking out lore wherever they can find it, hoping that this information can help them bring light to darkness.
Conversely, they purge any sign of heretical material they find, knowing that its knowledge is a false light that leads only to ruin.
And they eagerly embraced the promethean cult.... hmmmmm books, purging heretics eagerly, eagerly hungering for a faith to follow...
MUST BE SALAMANDERS
jaunty dawn
the weird thing about them is word bearers weren't black and red until well after they'd gone down the chaos rabbit hole
but yeah I think it's cute that if they are lorgar dna that they got taught the promethean cult and love it
paper bluff
Word bearers symbol and marine for example
floral herald
Yeah that one is also kind of hmmm
paper bluff
Was it the sons of Anteras that were thought to be loyalist death guard?
floral herald
Hmm
It looks like basically all the KT2024 rules leaked online
I think they'd be ok to post here?
Since they're gonna be free online anyway
thin ibex
Is that the classic heavy bolter?
jaunty dawn
missile launcher
floral herald
It reminds me of the fuel rod gun
Though the design is probably the other way around in terms of inspiration if anything
jaunty dawn
portable barricade is so neat
ebon forge
It looks like basically all the KT2024 rules leaked online
Oh cool, how the solo and co-op mode works?
ebon forge
Word bearers symbol and marine for example
Belisarius Cawl is not even being subtle at this point, he is deliberately provoking Bobby
floral herald
portable barricade is so neat
Yeah I love that one
jaunty dawn
oooh vespids get a tactical ploy to treat themselves as being on a vantage point cause they fly up and shoot you
omg the swarmguard's skytorch thing
pastel rampart
floral herald
Storm Hawk Tuah is inspired fuck off lol
pastel rampart
lmao
thin ibex
mental birch
oooh vespids get a tactical ploy to treat themselves as being on a vantage point...
sometimes you deserve a treat of auto hitting 3 and your opponent only rolling 2 dice
finite compass
Ave Dominus Nox
spice flicker
So how'd you feel if in a crusade starting at 750 points, the Craftworld Eldar player brought in an avatar of khaine?
finite compass
I love the Night Lords, but I don't think I have the patience to paint all the lightning. 😛
desert jay
More than just models I'm pretty sure the sons of the Phoenix have gotten more l...
If you count novels, there's Renegades: Lord of Excess, came out April this year
Like not just "they show up", it's EC-viewpoint
spice flicker
So how'd you feel if in a crusade starting at 750 points, the Craftworld Eldar p...
The eldar player who did a training battle against custodes got traumatized I think and can't figure out a way to deal with custodes. He found the avatar of khaine is less than the 375 points cap and is now considering bringing one. (Idk if he is serious or not.) Below is the latest list he designed.
Autarch 75
Guardian Defenders 100
Avatar of Kaine 335
Crimson Hunter 160
Shroud Runner 80
onyx elm
So does that mean there are "Stun Marines?"
wintry mist
Unfortunately space marines are severely lacking in less than lethal options
past sphinx
1500 points
5 rounds
Demons vs nightlords
Highest score? 16.
An absolutely brutal 3 hours of a slugfest
tranquil ivy
Playing my first game!
I am very much in danger
Iron Dragons (Firestorm) vs Blood Angels (Liberator)
tranquil ivy
Eyy how'd it go?
Im still playing
thin ibex
An absolutely brutal 3 hours of a slugfest
"I didn't hear no bell" ass game
tranquil ivy
i see you has dreads ready to rumble on your opening message
His dreadnought is slaughtering me
solemn gull
They really need to make a new space marine civil war event
Went to the local store for the first time in a while and there were so many pick up games of SM vs SM
past sphinx
I fully believed primaris vs firstborn was comin
spice flicker
I mean there were some black templars who killed their primaris before they could fully join and dark angels firstborn keep secrets from the primaris.
pulsar cairn
LEAD HIM TO THE SLAUGHTER
tired cairn
I don't think they need a new civil war, but they could better emphasize all the dumb reasons that SM will fight each other
tranquil ivy
Had to Forfeit after the third round. Only had 5 infernus marines, an impulsor and 5 intercessors left. Couldnt do anything with em
thin ibex
No way to score?
tranquil ivy
No way to score?
No point. Impulsor was fighting in melee with a dreadnought, he was capping 4 out of 5 zones, my current marines were on the other side of the map
ebon forge
https://youtu.be/SYfK8VlSf6M the funniest part of re-visitng TTS is seeing what they where hyperbolic about
And what it's legit in-lore
The mechanicust are 100% antagonistic and pedantic like this i love it
floral herald
Spase marines!
No big surprises here just some cleanup
Intercession and Justician probably being combined is the biggest change I think
Actually basic marines to 14 wounds is 👀
jaunty dawn
justian being incorporated is fun!
floral herald
Yeah it’s nice for sure
And helps Intercession be a little more choice based
Space marines just getting shoot/fight twice baked in instead of needing to do a little backflip first is also welcome
ebon forge
Spase marines!
todeh the enemeh is at oua doar! We know oua duteh and we will do eet. We fight for our honor as Blud Rehvens, as SPESS MEHREENS, and we fight in the nehme of the Empra!
jaunty dawn
thats how intercession has always been tbf
thin ibex
Intercession feels like it's the easiest kill team to build by far
Like just get some random intercessors and boom, kill team
And not just kill team, but one of the consistently strong ones
floral herald
thats how intercession has always been tbf
Yeah but now Legionaries and NC and Phobos don’t need to do a little dance for a CP and then spend it for the right
jaunty dawn
ohhh right yeah
no that is good
i wonder what the new niche of undivided will be
for legionaries
spice flicker
Which space marine combat patrol was the strongest?
floral herald
The attack mulligan was but yeah that was their thing
runic swallow
Aw yeah baby, leviathan doing leviathan things
Like, sorry for your marines impending loss, but I love Leviathan Dreadnoughts
pastel rampart
wintry mist
solemn gull
I really want to revive my local aeronatica scene
uneven ember
I really want to revive my local aeronatica scene
PLANES
compact gate
so i was trying AoS armies with a friend recently
i expected kharadrons to be a favorite of mine, and they did not disappoint
jaunty dawn
nice!!!
compact gate
but a surprising equal to me was fucking gitz
compact gate
i was not expecting crackpipe goblins to be so damn fun
they REALLY make you feel like every unit grabbed their trusty crackpipe before the battle
stormcast eternals: WE ARE SIGMAR'S WRATH MADE MANIFEST! REBORN BY HIS DIVINE WILL!
pulsar cairn
Adeptus arbiters do other stuff that aint related to law enforcement? 
cause some showed up in "the tithes" doing something i wasnt expecting
uneven ember
Sometimes?
They're a trained military organization, the difference between "law enforcement" and "war" can be blurry at the best of times IRL never mind the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, Imperial Law covers a lot of ground, and hey if they're what you have they're a lot better than nothing
floral herald
cause some showed up in "the tithes" doing something i wasnt expecting
What was the thing?
wild fog
They may also be involved in securing the psykers meant for transport until the black ships can handoff
And just ended up wrapped up in the events of the ep
floral herald
Yeah assuming it’s that that’s imperial tax collection - that’s in their wheelhouse
pulsar cairn
They may also be involved in securing the psykers meant for transport until the ...
that was the thing
jaunty dawn
much like irl cops the arbites serve as the violent arm of the bureaucracy
so any time a non military adeptus needs some violence/threat of violence done they're likely the ones to be doing it
pulsar cairn
imperium has so many fricking factions inside of it
jaunty dawn
mhm
now I'm thinking about a civil war between the ecclesiarchy, military, and admin
and the space marines stay out of it because 'oh no, I'm not doing a civil war, you can't trick me this time'
past sphinx
Don't forget the militarium is also 3 independent factions
mild glen
I mean, I've played Dawn of War. The Space Marines have no issue slaughtering other imperials because they have some slightly indifferent interpretation of dogma and/or orders from on high
Or even just, like, conflicting orders.
pulsar cairn
if some higher up ordered it i think they would 100% do it
thin ibex
for crimson fists
its their left hand right
thats red?
or is it their right
or does it not matter
pastel rampart
The Chapter's main colour is deep blue with white or silver details. When an initiate joins the ranks of the Chapter his left glove is painted red; when he becomes a member of the Crusade company his right glove is also painted red.
pastel rampart
Yeah.
thin ibex
tyty
south axle
Speaking of Crimson Fists, I don't think Pedro Kantor has crossed the rubicon
pastel rampart
A bunch of SM heroes haven't, and entirely because GW is probably reserving that for when a new codex comes out.
south axle
A primaris with a wrist mounted bolter would be cool
thin ibex
i like to imagine pedro is just too busy killing orks
pedro was like "thanks for visiting robby G, the reinforcements are appreciated. But if its all the same, I got more orks to kill"
jaunty dawn
A primaris with a wrist mounted bolter would be cool
there's a few
'
termi librarian and the new sanguinary guard
south axle
We need moar
pastel rampart
I wonder if they'll ever rubicon the grey knights.
south axle
RUbicon the custodes >:D
ebon forge
so i was trying AoS armies with a friend recently
Would you say AoS is more complex than 40k10th?
thin ibex
another question, i forget does a former deathwatch guy keep his deathwatch pauldron?
thin ibex
neat so like normal chapter colors, big silver pauldron
jaunty dawn
I wonder if they'll ever rubicon the grey knights.
it's weird cause they made crowe big without rubiconing him
like, primaris big
he's still wearing pre mkx artificer though
or aegis I guess
so they're basically refusing to commit either way
especially since, since then, horus heresy and nuchaos have cemented how big a firstborn marine is meant to be
bright dove
Would you say AoS is more complex than 40k10th?
I would not. Spearhead is a breeze if you want to dip your toes, and the main game isn't much harder
jaunty dawn
40k definitely has more friction
ebon forge
I would not. Spearhead is a breeze if you want to dip your toes, and the main ga...
Spearhead?
jaunty dawn
alt game mode for aos using the boxed army sets
same concept as combat patrol but it's actually good
bright dove
Spearhead is basically a simplified version of the normal rules with the box armies, yeah
jaunty dawn
and plays on 22" x 30" board which is amazing for playing at home
thin ibex
Well, have we heard in any direction if the gk are getting primaris? I would think not at all
jaunty dawn
we've heard nothing I think
like there's no lore saying "grey knights are impossible to make/they refused to get them/torchbearer crusade can't figure out where they live" it's just crickets
bright dove
I like GK not being Primaris tbh
thin ibex
I do kinda like em being not primaris, but I have to imagine there's some vested imperial interest in ensuring they have the best shit they could get
Maybe mkX armor sized down* (but still at the new sm scale)
What we really need is a re-release of the rhino that is big enough to carry a whole squad
jaunty dawn
no they haven't even gotten bigger other than crowe
bright dove
They have enough of the special boi juice that I think they'll be fine.
rocky shale
They should make them primaris scale but have no lore change
jaunty dawn
honestly having seen how small actual scale models of apcs are I don't think the rhino is too small for firstborn
I think the modelled interior probably is?
grey knights already have their own armour that's like a mix of mk8 and mk6 so they don't really need new armour
but they've really put themselves in a corner cause they've made it so established that firstborn and primaris are very different sizes
also terminators are much bigger, they're definitely primaris even if the rule distinction became obsolete. they don't scale to regular marines very well at all, especially cause you can compare them to chaos terminators
paper bluff
Adeptus arbiters do other stuff that aint related to law enforcement? <:vicksyTh...
They're judge dredd and law enforcement specifically of the imperium. Like a planet might have specific laws but the arbites enforcement the imperial law (and maybe more if the place is more important)
thin ibex
arbites are effectively the space fed with a shotgun fetish
jaunty dawn
there's definitely a chance that when/if they redo the gk line they just leave crowe freakishly big like they did the plastic praetors for heresy
paper bluff
They ain't subtle with the Judge Dredd influence
To go to GK primaris, It would be funny if they aren't due to cawl not getting to work on them. Call my time line wrong but I think Cawl was working on Primaris before GK was a thing
*in lore
solemn gull
Probably but also what geneseed do GK use?
jaunty dawn
super secret special awesome gene seed :)
solemn gull
It would be cool if they were basically a mutt breed of the founding members
So intermixed and muddled after it being passed down for so long that it’s basically their own thing
jaunty dawn
To go to GK primaris, It would be funny if they aren't due to cawl not getting t...
knights errant had been gathered and titan sent into the warp before cawl was given the task, but he was underway by the time they came back for the second founding
paper bluff
I thought gk was a super special 666th founding
paper bluff
super secret special awesome gene seed :)
"The emperor's"
jaunty dawn
no they're the 666th chapter
on the books anyway
despite the fact the second founding had about 400 chapters
paper bluff
If the way too powerful proto-primarch still canon?
pastel rampart
If the way too powerful proto-primarch still canon?
floral herald
To go to GK primaris, It would be funny if they aren't due to cawl not getting t...
I think that timeline is correct
Wait sorry it’s backwards
But in a complicated way which means you’re probably right
The GK project is started during the Horus Heresy - a while before the primaris project starts
Cawl was probably not aware of it
Titan and the Grey Knights do not reappear until after the primaris project starts after the heresy
paper bluff
https://tenor.com/view/do-you-have-any-idea-how-little-that-narrows-it-down-that...
What pannywen said
paper bluff
But in a complicated way which means you’re probably right
Some "part" of Cawl could have been working on it before the grey knights
jaunty dawn
yeah the angel hasn't been contradicted by anything really
south axle
Like 99% of SM, traitoris and not, are "chosen" by the Emperor
tepid stratus
another question, i forget does a former deathwatch guy keep his deathwatch paul...
They'll usually keep the pauldron, gauntlet, or tie a chain, rosarius or other mark of their service on the arm that would have been silver
pulsar cairn
i'll say
if the night lords were loyalist
i think the inquisition would want to use them
wild fog
Had to look back at gk creation and totally forgot horus heresy implies have some weirdness where they might be partially derived from Magnus' "good" shard
deft crest
Warhammer knowers i require input to colors and paint should Do you think the spines coming out should be teeth colored or black horn colored
Bah
Wrong image i just realized that doesn't show off the spines
Not at home ATM so cant take better pick
still warren
I think black looks best it's a classic after all but white would really be striking and make them stand out more
pulsar cairn
there's at least 2 named greater daemons who tried to challenge khorne 
and got punished for it
wild fog
Have you considered that Khorne's love language is violence?
jaunty dawn
exactly!
wild fog
Doesn't seem so problematic to me. That's just how they express affection
compact gate
Would you say AoS is more complex than 40k10th?
yes and no
there's more to keep track of, especially for some armies like gitz
but there's less "okay so my specific detachment lets me use this stratagem on this unit so i need to take them, and then this enhancement also gives a buff so i should..."
at least for now
ebon forge
dang
compact gate
each faction gets 4 index detachments, but they're all a single rule each that may be EXTREMELY important (trogherd's massive healing buff definitely needs a rework) or nigh useless
pulsar cairn
Doesn't seem so problematic to me. That's just how they express affection
wowie
i mean
daemons just come back if they die .w. so i suppose violence could be their love language
ebon forge
Found the Bloodletter
uneven ember
They ain't subtle with the Judge Dredd influence
I feel like you said "influence" when you meant something like "shameless rip-off"
Early 40K breaks into other creative outlets' publishing houses and "gets influenced by" anything not nailed down
uneven ember
and the space marines stay out of it because 'oh no, I'm not doing a civil war, ...
Also imma keep saying "the Badab War started with a tax dispute"
bright dove
So are the Night Lords sometimes tbh.
plucky token
Also imma keep saying "the Badab War started with a tax dispute"
a surprising amount of shit in the Imperium gets started over tax disputes
finite compass
There have been a lot of Imperial Civil Wars or Schisms that had Space Marines at least tacitly supporting either side
And a lot of the time it just ended up like the Iron Hands and the Sons of Medusa
Where the latter were on one side of a Mechanicus schism and basically just went "Okay, we'll just form our own chapter with blackjack and hookers"
jaunty dawn
I mean that's definitely one angle
the other angle is that space marines get special treatment whenever they go rogue
uneven ember
Some Marines did also get involved in the Reign of Blood/ Convocation of Lights
Mostly because Goge was dumb enough to decide mostly independent Imperial actors like the Muhreenes going "not my circus not my monkeys" was an affront to his absolute spiritual and temporal authority and not just something to leave well enough alone
jaunty dawn
like all the ashen claws allies survived badab pretty much
bright dove
Good ole Vandire and poking the Salamanders was funny.
paper bluff
uneven ember
Yeah, but also Space Marines insist on special treatment for other Space Marines
My impression from the end of the IA books on Badab was that the =][= guys would've really preferred to just delete everyone involved and scrub their name from the histories, but all the Space Marines who'd come to help out were just really keen on the whole "try them before the assembled Chapter Masters" idea
jaunty dawn
True!
space marines are one of the only factions that get to insist on much of anything though
paper bluff
Custodes
uneven ember
Well, a Chapter Master has a lot of weight behind his opinion
The dignity of his position, the direct line of succession from the Emperor, the weight of experience
The often unstated but never absent threat that his opinion comes with 1000 roided-up genetically engineered murder-freaks in power armor and a support fleet capable of reducing worlds to uninhabitable husks absolutely loyal to him ready to back it up at any time
upper canopy
Every faction wants to propagate their own autonomy
The space Marines are the ones who push it the most tho
And get slapped down for it often
thin ibex
i think the space marines have a fairly large amount of personal autonomy though
within the hierarchies of hte imperium
ultimately still beholden to the high lords of terra, and somewhat the inquisition
but no planetary governor, naval commander, imperial general, or most other mortals and have any right or means to command space marines
uneven ember
Although Guard commanders can and do wind up in operational control of Space Marines in a given theater
floral herald
AIUI that's very rare
Partially because the IoM usually gives command to the overall most senior office, who's often a space marine, and partially cause most space marines don't like putting themselves at the disposal of the guard
uneven ember
It seems to happen pretty regularly in the big event fights
Yarrick on Armageddon, Creed during Black Crusade XIII
floral herald
Yeah Yarrick was one of the exceptions, though I think that's a good example of how guard-astartes joint commands go
uneven ember
With the qualifier that if the Marines respond to the "command" with "nah fam imma do my thing" there's not a whole lot to do about it
floral herald
Where usually the space marines get an AOR and some goal and then the guard lets em rip
bright dove
Most guard commanders realize that some Space Marines have been alive and fighting longer than they have, so they just let them have at.
jaunty dawn
inqusitior was nominally in command of the red scorpions for anphelion project campaign but they ended up just leaving him and all the other humans to die to tyranids haha
bright dove
But also Guard Commanders tend to care about the bigger picture stuff in ways that Space Marines usually won't.
jaunty dawn
unless you've got like, an ultramarine (or even more specifically, a white consul) space marines aren't really cut out for it yeah
floral herald
Who actually had overall operational command of the defense of Cadia?
runic swallow
Usually they act like independent special forces, doing surgical strikes to support the guard rather than doing the campaign themselves (which honestly is how they should be doing anyhow but GW and numbers/strategy don’t see eye to eye)
jaunty dawn
would rather just decide their own mission and then do it with zero communication lol
floral herald
However, despite Creed’s best efforts to create a unified command to counter the coming attack, the various Imperial factions present still proved too stubborn and rebellious. Creed lamented that he did not have one true army from which to defend Cadia, but many smaller independent forces with their own agendas.
oh
(Nominally Creed)
uneven ember
But yeah that's the whole thing in 40K
There's not an org chart there's literally countless arrangements between basically-autonomous quasi-feudal factions mostly united in name
It's so, so fucking stupid that Valkyries and Vendettas are Navy gear and I love it
bright dove
Guard is doing its own thing, Navy is doing it's own thing, Titans are doing their own thing, Space Marines are doing their own thing.
The Ciaphas Cain novels are good at covering the logistical nightmare that is the Guard having to show up from off-world.
floral herald
It's so, so fucking stupid that Valkyries and Vendettas are Navy gear and I love...
That part is at least them being stupid on purpose
jaunty dawn
a lot of the regiments that actually use them on a regular basis own them too
thin ibex
generally also, a guard commander is given the privelege of space marine support rather than being their direct superior. So usually a chapter is petitioned for help, have binding oaths, and then accept guard leadership based on reputation and respect in 99% of those rare cases
uneven ember
That part is at least them being stupid on purpose
Yup.
Because not only is the IoM suffering all the natural inefficiency and factionalization of being a 10000-y-o authoritarian hellscape of a million worlds connected by blind psychics speaking in tongues for communication and cities flying through hell for transport
It's deliberately designed to be coup-proof over combat effective
past sphinx
#REALBLOODPACTHOURS
thin ibex
the other 1% being when they're are told by the inquisition/the high lords of terra
runic swallow
Yeah post heresy they split up the Imperial Army into the navy and guard so that any revolt would either not have a ground force or not get off-world
uneven ember
Yeah, one of the many things I liked about the IA Badab War books
The narrative spends a good bit of time on how both sides had to wrangle their coalition to whatever degeee
So the Inquisition, say, was nominally in charge of the Loyalist forces but their actual degree ranged from the Minotaurs (on their leash) to the Space Sharks (who are fighting your enemies and not fighting you but won't talk or coordinate at all)
runic swallow
I liked how the Vraks book had space marines mostly asking as support for the campaign (or in one case showing up to do one thing and immediately fucking off)
Since it turns out 1000 dudes, no matter how superhuman, aren’t enough to do an entire planetary campaign!
paper bluff
Are there badab war books?
runic swallow
And are best used as some kind of forces, that are special in purpose
runic swallow
Are there badab war books?
Yeah, it’s one of the Imperial Armory books
floral herald
It's one of my favorites
runic swallow
I do love that it’s basically a tax and area of authority dispute that spirals wildly out of control
paper bluff
Yeah, it’s one of the Imperial Armory books
I mean more.... the horus heresy books sort
jaunty dawn
Yeah, it’s one of the Imperial Armory books
or rather three of them
paper bluff
I knew it was a forge world book
uneven ember
Yeah, I'm talking about the IA books
bright dove
the other 1% being when they're are told by the inquisition/the high lords of te...
And Dark Angels chasing the Fallen. 😛
runic swallow
Honestly the IA books have a ton of written stuff in em
valid brook
The IA books fuckin rule tbh
uneven ember
They're great, the whole thing opens with a whole passage about how the fluff in the CSM codicies is the official story they're telling until they can manage to scrub Lugft Huron and Badab from all histories
(also my autocorrect tried to correct "Lugft" to "Luffy" both pirates I guess)
upper canopy
Creed was more in charge of Cadia as the fight went on
By the end he was de facto in command of everyone
thin ibex
i think cadia, and by extension the 8th, is generally univerally respected by imperial field commanders the galaxy across
upper canopy
(also my autocorrect tried to correct "Lugft" to "Luffy" both pirates I guess)
Luffy D. Huron
pulsar cairn
is creed the beeg cadia boss?
upper canopy
He was!
upper canopy
He's currently in a box
pulsar cairn
i thought trazyn added him to the collection
floral herald
Lugft D Monkey doesn't have the same ring to it
runic swallow
though shes not got as much notoriety
I do love how being Wide is genetic in the Creed family
upper canopy
i think cadia, and by extension the 8th, is generally univerally respected by im...
The 8th is actually the regiment you fight alongside in Space Marine 2
floral herald
I think its kind of funny that its the Cadian 8th in SM2
upper canopy
JINX
thin ibex
yup!
upper canopy
OWE ME A COKE
runic swallow
Like, I love that they made her model just fuckin’ broad
floral herald
Like pals how did you get here this is the eastern fringe you are gonna get eaten
upper canopy
I think it's funny how much they die
Given how elite and irreplaceable they are and like every time I fight alongside a squad of 20 they take 90% casualties
runic swallow
I don’t, I feel sad when I notice none are left in a combat 😭
upper canopy
Entire Cadian 8th soloed by 4 tyranid warriors
floral herald
There's a part with a Tyranid Warrior that shoots one with a Venom Cannon at one which is basically hardcoded
And you can save that guy if you bodyblock all the shots and kill it
upper canopy
But also at the same time the amount of Marines that die is also incredibly funny
Like "guys we are one space marine company fighting one hive ship for a day, how have we lost 20 Marines so far"
Thr Ultramarines stop being posterboys because they run out of Marines mid 10th edition
floral herald
Far from the worst offender for 40k games but yeah 100%
I think the average Dawn of War campaign playthrough might kill the chapter
bright dove
Unless you are a madman like me who did Hit and Run Rhino and Meltagun fights. 😛
Surprise, Necrons! Have a single squad and a Meltagun, then me running away before reinforcements arrive!
tired cairn
Maybe space marines only stick to 1000 members when a census is done
And the last one was a long time ago
runic swallow
“Shh, shove the 11th through 14th companies in the loading dock, they won’t look there!”
thin ibex
blood ravens in dawn of war be like, "More meat for the grinder boys"
Send in the next wave of 40 space marines
bright dove
"How many Space Marines do you have, Black Templars?"
"WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO COUNT."
thin ibex
1/3rd of which are all equipped with heavy bolters or missile launchers
paper bluff
Maybe space marines only stick to 1000 members when a census is done
Oh how easily folks forget about The Brotherhood of a Thousand. There is ALWAYS a 1,000 of them
Always a 1,000 of them after any deployment
uneven ember
"How many Space Marines do you have, Black Templars?"
"WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO COU...
look they've got multiple independent Crusades going on across the galaxy at any given moment
If you want to track them all down and see if they can call a time out so you can get a head count feel free
pulsar cairn
btw
jaunty dawn
talon warped
thin ibex
whats their special ability again? Teleport if they kill a whole unit?
runic swallow
It used to be “haha, Warp Flashbangs mother fucker!” but idk now
plucky token
you get to put them back into reserves if they kill a unit, yeah
plucky token
mhm. their strat, as i understood it, was 'charge in, kill something, fuck off before they can retaliate. deep strike next turn and repeat'
floral herald
Pretty much yeah
I am using Raptors instead though because I got a Raptor Lord
And he can’t attach to anything else
And I love the model
thin ibex
It seems really easy to get an obscene amount of mining lasers on cults
past sphinx
also weirdly enough along with the raptors/talons kit have fucked wide heads the shoulder pauldrons are also thinner than standard marines
all the proportions on these models are fucked
also whats with all the csm having exactly the same knife?
thin ibex
pastel rampart
bright dove
A Threat.
past sphinx
what id give for caedo to be in the dlc as still a first born
and just a fucking maniac
aint got time for no rubicon, killing takes up to much of his time
pastel rampart
They try to call up Caedo on vox and all everyone gets back is BFG Division and the sounds of daemons screaming in pain.
upper canopy
I hope they do make him Canon
And also make every Ultramarine like actually scared of him
tired cairn
Is Caedo the one from that Boomer shooter?
runic swallow
Yeah, he’s an absolute lawnmower of a man voiced by Rahul Kohli
pastel rampart
Kills multiple greater daemons like it ain't no thang.
paper bluff
past sphinx
somehow sanctioned for being to loyal and to violent
granite basin
well when your chosen killing machine name is literally I Kill Evil i think you kinda open yourself up to that
floral herald
oh NO
past sphinx
everything is glued back together short of onepower fist for the chosen
but the lord was merciful and there wasnt a murder
broke Prince panasonic into about 6 parts tho
floral herald
That's good
untold swallow
Malum Caedo is the one blueberry marine I actually like
past sphinx
hes the perfect contradiction
granite basin
so i have some thoughts about characterization. i'm going off of w&g2e material but i'm curious about how to portray diff types of chaos space marines based on their patron god, or just... in general ig? i wanna know if these are off base
khornate dudes are pretty simple to figure out i think. blood for the blood god. just nonstop, brain-turn-off aggression. probably a lot of "minor infighting" and exaggerated machismo/displays of competition.
nurgleites i think are pretty content and oddly jovial, bc they're just happy to be "alive" spreading the good word of grandpapa plague. kind of an unsettling dissonance to them
tzeenchian boys are dudes who love schemes and acting smarter than you. Also magic. Insufferable wizardy fucks or 5000 IQ 6D chess assholes
slaaneshi ones are weird to me, bc all i can think about them is just... someone who is Too Much in almost every aspect, and is also casually unsettlingly horny.
i'm sure there's more variance in individual warbands and beliefs, but is that about a good place to start w it?
floral herald
Yeah that’s a pretty good starting ground
I think Slaanesh types also make sense for a sort of crazy big plan or stunt sort of person
Like a “next big score”
I also like how the Slaanesh-aligned Chosen of Abaddon is primarily famous for sacrificing a whole hive city’s population for a seemingly function potion of invulnerability
Which is a good big stunt to pull
finite compass
For a Slaanesh marine, I'd say somebody who's obviously and shamelessly doing whatever he does for his own amusement. And he's never going to apologize for this. Also replace like 'horny' with like... Okay, I guess it is horny, but excerpt example.
Nefertari’s dark, slanted eyes
glinted with the cold mirth that failed to grace her lips. ‘Greetings,’ she said to him. ‘Slave-child of the Goddess That Thirsts.’
Telemachon showed white teeth in the melted ruin of his face. He was plainly amused at the eldar race’s belief that the Youngest God was actually a Goddess. His handsome eyes never left the alien maiden.
‘My angel. My lovely angel, you know nothing of what you speak. You’ve spent a lifetime running from the Youngest God. But he loves you, sweetling. He adores you and all of your kind. I can hear him sing each time you breathe. And one day, when you leave your flesh behind, you will be his. A concubine of spirit and shadow, claimed by your true love at last.’
If Nefertari felt any unease, she showed none of it. Ruthlessly smooth armour joints purred softly as she crouched before the prisoner, her too-white skin a match – at least in shade – for the stretched white mess of his. Grey-black wings shivered, stirring the air inside the modest chamber.
‘We were like you once,’ she told him.
‘I doubt that, lovely one.’
‘But we were. We were slaves to sensation. We knew no pleasure beyond decadence that raked our nerves to the limits and beyond.’ She sounded gentle, though condescension ripened her weak aura.
Telemachon closed his eyes, breathing in her breath, drinking her every exhalation. Being near her was rapture.```
‘You would like that, wouldn’t you?’ She made to stroke her crystal-clawed fingertip down the side of his face, but no contact came. The glassy talon tip hovered a centimetre above the prisoner’s tormented flesh. He strained against his bindings, aching to lean forwards so Nefertari might lacerate his face.
‘I can smell your soul, eldar.’ He was trembling now. ‘The Youngest God shrieks for it, crying from behind the veil.’
She leaned even closer, close enough that I could barely hear her whisper. ‘Then let the Goddess shriek. I am not ready to die.’
‘You live in defiance of his hunger, lovely angel... Let me taste you. Let me bleed you. Let me kill you. Please. Please. Please.’
yeah i'd call that just casually being unsettlingly horny, but i getcha lol-
finite compass
Unsettlingly horny for murder 😛
but yeah, you could put some different spins on things if you wanted to. Nurgle Marine that's just inexorable. Completely unbothered by anything. Resistance is futile because there's nothing you can really do to stop entropy.
The Tzeentchian that's completely forgotten any plans or ideas of being the puppet master, because now he's just a willing tool, acting on insane whims and portents because any catastrophe he triggers will somehow serve the schemes of the Changer of Ways.
granite basin
different degrees of emphasis on "fuck it we ball" i feel
finite compass
Pretty much
Could easily have a Khornate that's still holding to rules of discipline and honorable combat.
granite basin
like. i think the tzeentchian fellas are pretty in touch with the absurdity of the universe at large, and seem to me the most likely to just shrug and roll with the bullshit.
granite basin
Could easily have a Khornate that's still holding to rules of discipline and hon...
ooh, interesting- i think w&g mentions a warband called the Bloodied Host? idk if warbands are all space marine specifically, but in lieu of any other characterization that'd be cool to fuck around w
finite compass
My absolute favorite take on this
Is actually the WE codex
The big going over different warbands
And there's one that's obsessed with the art of defense.
Which means they do stuff like..
There's an Imperial world in the path of a Tyranid hive fleet and gearing up for the invasion. So the warband descends on this world, slaughters all the Imperial defenders...
And then turns around to face the incoming hive fleet because it will be a glorious defense.
granite basin
is that the Harvest?
finite compass
I don't think so
granite basin
granite basin
i love nearly redundant names. unironically one of my favorite things about 40k is that you can only come up w so many Cool Badass Edgy names so they often sound incredibly similar
finite compass
There was an old fan thing I remember reading that was like a Chaos Lord invading a planet.
"My Lord! Ships belonging to the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers have entered the system!"
"Well, tell them to sod off! This is our conquest!"
"...Er, no my lord, these are Loyalists."
"Loyalists. They're not Khorne Worshippers?"
[later]
"Okay, so you're saying the Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Soul Drinkers, and Flesh Eaters are Imperals."
"Yes."
"And the Alpha Legion, Astral Claws, and Resplendent Host are on our side..."
"Yes."
"..."
granite basin
H HG
yeah, the flesh tearers not being khornate boys will never not be funny to me
finite compass
"Hooray we're saved, it's the Flesh Eaters!"
upper canopy
The idea that somehow eating flesh and drinking blood for ten thousand years does not make you liable to corruption but a chicken deciding to pull a funny prank can just Make You Heretical
granite basin
that kind of deadpan absurdity is my actual favorite thing about 40k, above anything. bc so much of it is completely insane hocus pocus nonsense and it's actually true
upper canopy
remember the Crimson Slaughter
anyone remember those good ol' boys
the Crimson Slaughter
granite basin
red killsword
red killsword TWO: KILL HARDER
finite compass
I remember the Crimson Slaughter
How they were the new chaos poster boys for like...One edition
thin ibex
I feel like a chapter like the flesh tearers helps illustrate that the line between insane chaos berserker and loyalist butcher is (intentionally) very blurry
uneven ember
Is actually the WE codex
What's in the WE codex?
thin ibex
Not every traitor is gonna look super obviously evil and have spikes and flesh draped over their armor that's also alive. And not every loyalist is gonna be of noble, patrician countenance, in gold and polished armor
finite compass
What's in the WE codex?
Actually no, it was the old Khorne Daemonkin codex. And these guys.
wintry mist
looking to get into kill team instead of back into regular 40k and the kasrkin seems cool
marsh haven
https://preview.redd.it/what-ability-should-the-jump-pack-lord-have-v0-2zpc1t0n0...
I still prefer the old Raptor models
With the cathedral shaped jetpacks
Twitter
past sphinx
Old raptors are such a nightmare
They love smashing their stupid barely balanced faces into the ground
floral herald
They look cool until it happens but yes
jaunty dawn
they're not so bad if you put them on 32 mm bases
marsh haven
I mostly miss the jetpacks and taloned feet
I’m neutral on the faces
Though the old face does look really cool on the cover of Throne of Lies
pastel rampart
There's never been a Raptor model that wasn't hilariously top-heavy for no good reason.
https://i.redd.it/kdruw5hjxk671.jpg Well okay these were slightly better than most.
Still love these ones.
marsh haven
these lads
pastel rampart
Those are great up until you look at them wrong and then they tip over, screaming "death to the false gravity" before exploding into several pewter bits.
I do have one of those backpacks tho and I've been keeping it around to one day make resin copies if I ever get a wild hair about doing Night Lords, finally.
jaunty dawn
they're not so bad if you put them on 32 mm bases
.
junior robin
I got one back in the days and used the jumppack for a space wolf wolf priest 😌
marsh haven
the Night Lords books somehow made me feel for some of the worst psychopaths in the galaxy
pastel rampart
The trilogy made me really like how sopping wet failsons they are.
Just the worst people.
marsh haven
yeah they suck i love them
they're just sane enough to realize how miserably pathetic they are
but not sane enough to stop
pastel rampart
They're in too deep and also they don't even know what else to do.
marsh haven
yeah but they're a showcase of why Chaos Undivided is more interesting to me than the Color Coded Quartet
because the Four are axiomatic caricatures of themselves at this point
pastel rampart
Which is fair, what else would you do after 10,000 years being a heretic? Just hang up the lightning claws and go farming? They're not wired for that.
marsh haven
TBF they haven't all experienced that 10000 years subjectively
even on the same ship
pastel rampart
Yeah, but still, others in the NLs have. Probably enough to wonder what the goddamn point is now.
They're stuck in a hell of their own making and can't even fathom getting out of it, and even if they could there's nowhere else to go. Imperium won't take them back, and Chaos would just double down on trying to kill them like they do everyone.
marsh haven
Bit of a headcanon of mine is that Curze's consciousness is stuttering randomly across spacetime
Forced to relive his experiences through his past self without being able to act upon them
pastel rampart
Curze's consciousness constantly bombarding his past self with visions to prevent his own suffering and death and failing miserably.
solemn gull
I only ever read the first of the night lord books but it was pretty cool. I like the chaos undivided stuff because all the characters are like
“Man these idiots keep infighting and getting in the way of my petty infighting also we are all too poor to actually do our thing.”
And the entire book will be about stealing shit from the imperium and then double crossing each other resulting in the destruction of the thing they stole
thin ibex
I want to make a night lord list but i feel like it's so easy to fall into "max jetpacks let's go"
Maybe I put in a heldrake
pastel rampart
Bikes too.
Old-school Night Lords looked a fair bit like an average CSM list, though less emphasis on heavy tanks. More fast units in general, with a couple heavy-hitters like dreads and terminators.
ebon forge
It's happy for you
solemn gull
I mean if aspirants are like 9-12 there are totally brand new scouts still losing their teeth
past sphinx
Jesus yeah
marsh haven
I mean if aspirants are like 9-12 there are totally brand new scouts still losin...
The Imperial Fists typically recruit from the underhives of the Imperium, chances are lots of aspirants are already missing teeth
pulsar cairn
I thought the artist was just being cute
pulsar cairn
The Imperial Fists typically recruit from the underhives of the Imperium, chance...
I heard they even visit necromunda from time to time to collect folks 
finite compass
I only ever read the first of the night lord books but it was pretty cool. I lik...
"Man, Abbadon is such a bitch."
"Total bitch."
"Anyway, should we go suck up to him for supplies?"
"We kinda have to, or we're out of ammunition in a week."
past sphinx
Rich kid everyone hates but pretends to like because he has the cool toys energy
mild glen
Alright, gang, I built this riptide... accidentally leaning forward somehow. Now taking advice on what to attach to.the jump jets to make it look like it's about to take off.
past sphinx
Attaching it to a base would be a good start
mild glen
Let's assume I've done that already
Matter of fact...
(I was showing a friend the scale)
tranquil ivy
What does this look like to you folks?
tardy vault
tranquil ivy
He has a good figure :>
mild glen
He looks like the chapter Pokémon master
uneven ember
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1187987776029863967/1284623969336561774/s...
That's just how they roll
wintry mist
for some reason I got reminded of the elite riot gear from new vegas
dunno why
need to give a kasrkin a duster
untold swallow
What does this look like to you folks?
weird librari-chaplain?
tranquil ivy
weird librari-chaplain?
Its a kitbash
Supposed to be a Judiciar/Chaplain
untold swallow
oooooooooooooooooooooo
that has interesting chapter lore implications if you are doing a homebrew chapter
tranquil ivy
that has interesting chapter lore implications if you are doing a homebrew chapt...
:3
untold swallow
He do be leading a squad
untold swallow
Its a kitbash
Supposed to be a Judiciar/Chaplain
I just realized I fucking brainfarted and he's not a psyker at all, at which point I must ask
Why a Force Sword?
marsh haven
I CURSE YOU WITH KNOWLEDGE!
untold swallow
I
runic swallow
I heard as much as people got weird about these books that they were fine
tranquil ivy
Why a Force Sword?
Because its what came with the librarian
marsh haven
i personally question the wisdom of the decision to market the warhammer IP to young children
tranquil ivy
I HAVE got a chain sword from the Space Wolves but
runic swallow
i personally question the wisdom of the decision to market the warhammer IP to y...
It’s always been a thing kids play
Like, a lot of GW’s market is young teens asking their parents to buy stuff
Especially in England
untold swallow
Because its what came with the librarian
I feel like I'd have to do lore gymnastics for a force sword being in a chaplain's hands xD
marsh haven
Like, a lot of GW’s market is young teens asking their parents to buy stuff
yeah but that's like an elementary school cover
runic swallow
It’s a YA book, yes
tranquil ivy
I feel like I'd have to do lore gymnastics for a force sword being in a chaplain...
They have a pet neurogaunt
Anything is possible
untold swallow
you know what
fair
XD
You are breaking the lore over your knee and I respect it
tranquil ivy
My Iron Dragons are literally chill with the Farsighr Enclaves
I have a lore reason behind it
But still
unreal cosmos
I wanna know the lore reason
tranquil ivy
I wanna know the lore reason
They are from the horus heresy, and was trapped in the warp for a couple thousand years
They then got spat out in the 41st millennia, in which they had no idea that xenos were meant to be killed, so theyre very tolerable of them
tepid stratus
I feel like I'd have to do lore gymnastics for a force sword being in a chaplain...
Well the blood ravens canonically have so many librarians they often end up in other major positions by virtue of veterancy and non librarians dying in the field. They've even had a librarian as chapter master so it's not like there's no precedent for a psyker in a non-librarian leadership position
tranquil ivy
My chaplain/judiciar is not a psyker
I DID shave off the markings in the blade though
Now its just a sword
past sphinx
are they a first founding chapter or somethin?
tranquil ivy
are they a first founding chapter or somethin?
Salamander Successor
untold swallow
Well the blood ravens canonically have so many librarians they often end up in o...
yes but a librarian that's serving a role as a Chaplain on the field would likely still field their psychic powers which by the rules chaplains can't do xD
untold swallow
i bear the black and yellow bolt
?
past sphinx
i play marines malevolent
tranquil ivy
i want it to get worse
Into the fire
Unto the anvil
Your scorched flesh will feed brother Kindle, and your weaponry shall be used to forge superior equipment.
raah
past sphinx
we fear not, we shall simply tie several hundred helpless puppys to the local grav train tracks to cover our escape with the loot
tranquil ivy
Sooo what chapter do you even play-
finite compass
I just realized that color-wise
Marines Malevolent are just Reverse Scythes of the Emperor
wintry mist
remember seeing an excerpt about the marines malevolent killing a bunch of refugees to also kill a bunch of orks
wintry mist
one of the sister hospitaller after the battle tried to shoot one of the sergeants in the head
finite compass
And then their commander got his shit wrecked by...
Uh..
He'stan?
Or was it Tu'shan?
wintry mist
and the only reason she didn't die is because another marine was like "okay dude calm dowm we've got other shit to do"
past sphinx
my man got his ass absolutely fucking beat in by some big green hands
finite compass
He got his shit wrecked by Named Salamander Character
wintry mist
who are the marines malevolent descended from?
past sphinx
their such dicks even their paintjob is a pain in the ass to paint
past sphinx
nobody wants to claim these shits lmao
finite compass
An onyx-skinned warrior was standing before him, armoured in forest green. A scaled cloak hung from his broad shoulders, attached beneath gilded pauldrons. Iconography of drakes and fire, hammers and anvils emblazoned his battle-plate. His voice was abyssal deep.‘I have spoken with Colonel Destrier,’ he said. ‘I have also witnessed the excessive force used at Emperor’s Deliverance and been told of the civilian casualties.’‘There is collateral damage in any war,’ protested Vinyar. ‘If I had not acted as punitively as I did, there would still be orks roaming that camp. Besides, cowards are unworthy of being spared.’The green-armoured warrior had unhitched a thunder hammer from his back and slammed it on the strategium table, cracking data-slates and tearing maps. He was unbuckling a holstered pistol when he said, ‘You misunderstand the purpose of my visit, Vinyar.’ He looked up and his eyes flashed fire-red. ‘This isn’t a discussion.’ He glanced at the gauntlets the Marines Malevolent captain had discarded. ‘Put those back on. I want this to be even.’Vinyar was belligerent, but reached for his gauntlets anyway. ‘What are you talking about, Tu’Shan?’ ‘Penance and restitution,’ said the Chapter Master of the Salamanders. Bones cracked in his neck as he loosened them. ‘I’ll give you one piece of advice,’ he added, clenching and unclenching his fists to work the knuckles. ‘Don’t go for a weapon.’Then he closed the barrack room door.
past sphinx
no no nightlords where competent
wintry mist
no no nightlords where competent
all the legions were more competent 10,000 years ago
tranquil ivy
Oh yea the Iron Dragons are gonna fucking hate these guys
wild fog
Gonna start a meme that they're a Loyalist Iron Warriors
untold swallow
``An onyx-skinned warrior was standing before him, armoured in forest green. A s...
Oh wow Vinyar is turbo dead
finite compass
TBF
'Using refugee camp as bait/artillery ranging' doesn't strike me as loyalist NL
It strikes me as Loyalist Iron Warriors. 😛
wild fog
Their color scheme was an old prank hoping people would accuse sons of dorn being jerks
wild fog
They added black to annoy Black Templar
wintry mist
they viewed the refugees as cowards unworthy of the emperor's grace
and that if the emperor liked them, they would have already been safe
past sphinx
extremely space marine behaviour
wintry mist
(nevermind the fact that the emperor is supposed to act through them, and that they are the ones meant to get them to safety)
past sphinx
to busy looting the local schools for juice boxes to consider that
past sphinx
they stole the fucking rubicon process lmao
wintry mist
I like the MM because they are the most like 1st and 2nd edition marines
absolute knuckledragging assholes with a complete disregard for human life
found this piece of art
I fw it
oh I should use the MM in my wrath and glory game...
wintry mist
maybe the worst people who aren't chaos in 40k
upper canopy
Twitter
past sphinx
the administratum beat em out on sheer scale
wintry mist
or dark eldar
wintry mist
the administratum beat em out on sheer scale
oh for sure
past sphinx
deldar atleast enjoy it
wintry mist
I said light lords but I've changed my mind
they are an alpha legion descendant chapter
honestly yea I might be an MM fan
I love the Lamenters and the Marines Malevolent...
past sphinx
both are just awful to paint and thats fitting
uneven ember
That's a name I haven't heard in a long time
floral herald
ancient
wintry mist
I love the angry marines...
wintry mist
I think the worst part of the MMs having no known heritage
is that they wont get added to Space Marine 2
if they aren't here now (with all the unknown heritage chapters) they wont be here after
untold swallow
found this piece of art
This is the first art I've seen of a loyalist that screams 'shithead and enjoying it' XD
past sphinx
the lack of modern beakies is a crime
untold swallow
the lack of modern beakies is a crime
another reason Caedo is the one Based Blueberry ™️
wintry mist
beakies are so good
solemn gull
This feels more like an angry marine
finite compass
That's a pretty typical 1e Marine
...
I make a 'They're loyalist IW' joke
"Veteran markings are black and yellow hazard stripes"
wintry mist
Yeah early marines were like actual dumbass shitheads
Like genuinely just stupid people who live to fight with fucked up superstitious rituals inspired by frat culture
uneven ember
Hazard stripes definitely stuck hardest on the IW but they showed up all over the place back when
wintry mist
Honestly I dont fw them on the IW
"Yeah okay dudes. You have hazard stripes because you're industrial. I'm sure that was hard to come up with."
It does look cool but it's so goofy
Actually thinking more I've done a 360
Or 180
Its so goofy it's good
uneven ember
My favorite dumb headcanon explanation is that 38000 years on the black and yellow stripes retain the meaning of "danger" and so warriors across the galaxy use them as a threat display or boast
wintry mist
Ooooh I like that
runic swallow
I like the idea that the Iron Warriors took it on to mark themselves as “dangerous tools”
Since they get used up and don’t have much choice in the matter
floral herald
I didn't expect this to get any likes lol
wintry mist
Bro let horus hit him to avoid child support payments for 10,000 years
uneven ember
Heyoo
finite compass
tardy vault
Big e is big bad
pulsar cairn
tardy vault
hehehe
ebon forge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1280645123654287472/1284383350739435610/b...
Why that style reminds me of Maple Story...
thin ibex
turbid sonnet
hello everyone. how bad of an idea is it to get into warhammer tabletop
thin ibex
What are your finances like?
floral herald
exactly as bad of an idea as you think it is
thin ibex
Tabletop is expensive
bold halo
huge time and money sink
thin ibex
The community can be pretty toxic depending on where and when you play
turbid sonnet
What are your finances like?
manageable. i have enough income where i can set some aside every now and then to buy new stuff but i do know that warhammer is like super expensive
finite compass
floral herald
I think warhammer is not crazy expensive when you factor in all the time you spend
turbid sonnet
not to mention the way games workshop functions being, uh, clunky at times
thin ibex
It can also be hugely rewarding to build and paint an army of Lil guys, and can build skills
bold halo
it's like several hobbies in a trenchcoat and all of them can be fun but it's such a time investment
turbid sonnet
mhm
thin ibex
So it's a ymmv
turbid sonnet
the three factions i'm most interested in are necrons tyranids and imperial knights (t'au are my favorite in lore but i've heard from a lot of people that doing them as your first army is a bad idea due to how they play)
thin ibex
Eh I somewhat disagree
turbid sonnet
don't they just like not have melee at all
thin ibex
With how much things cost, buy and play what interests you most
turbid sonnet
except farsight, who is a legend
finite compass
And Kroot
floral herald
You'll be spending a lot of time assembling and painting and basing your littol guys so it's important to like them
floral herald
I think the only sort of bad armies to start with are the ones which want you to use a lot of resin
thin ibex
Not by theory ing
turbid sonnet
maybe one day tau will get their own video game (fire warrior does not count)
floral herald
But that's not really a thing you need to worry about much
Some Custodes and Imperial Knight army lists, but you can just avoid them
turbid sonnet
I think the only sort of bad armies to start with are the ones which want you to...
honestly one of my other most interested armies is genestealer cults but i look at those models and know i just do not have the patience to paint them
too many little details and fiddly bits
floral herald
Yeah I have some GSC and I like how complicated they are to paint but they're tip top tier for that
turbid sonnet
which is why the three factions i listed most highly are on the easier end of painting
bold halo
if you're worried about fiddly details that's another point in favour of just going in on tau, they're mostly clean lines
floral herald
Tau lines are so clean that they can be rough to finish just right
turbid sonnet
and if you fuck something up on a tyranid ou can just sort of handwave it as them being biofreaks
it's battle scarring whatever
floral herald
(An airbrush helps a lot but is another investment)
turbid sonnet
or they came out the pool like that
bold halo
tyranids get a lot of leeway just being organic shapes
turbid sonnet
imperial knights interest me because. i like mechs. it's why i'm even in this server
i hope their codex is early 2025 and not like next winter
blease gw
floral herald
I wouldn't expect it before late spring in 2025
turbid sonnet
Weeps
floral herald
But also don't collect because of a codex
floral herald
Codexes are temporary models are forever
turbid sonnet
i also really like admech in lore but good god they're so expensive
also painting skill issue
floral herald
Their new rules have helped a lot on cost
turbid sonnet
that's good
floral herald
But they used to be basically the most expensive army to field
thin ibex
i think the main considerations for what army you start with are
- Do you like the models
- Will you enjoy painting them
- Do you like your army concept/play
- Finally, do you think you'll enjoy their play style
One should not consider how they play competetively or what gameplay elements they interact with
especially for starting
finite compass
I think I picked the absolute worst converting/painting complexity thing for an army attempt
floral herald
What'd you pick?
thin ibex
ultimately its like "Will you be happy with the army you have even if you never actually played with them"
finite compass
IG, but make them Traitor Guard and theme them around my Word Bearers
turbid sonnet
good lird
thin ibex
I aborted my desire to paint my tau in urban digital for my starting army specifically because i knew my skill level was too low
turbid sonnet
word bearers 
thin ibex
and the time/effort investment was too big
turbid sonnet
i hope corvus finds lorgar and kills him big mode
finite compass
word bearers <:trol:505855680654213145>
turbid sonnet
alpha legion are my favorite traitor legion by lightyears and it's not even close but i don't really want to play space marines, chaos or otherwise
floral herald
IG, but make them Traitor Guard and theme them around my Word Bearers
Yeah that's rough, though you could do worse
turbid sonnet
marines are like, perfectly middle of the road for me in terms of 40k stuff. they're cool and iconic but there's just way better stuff
but god. i am alpharius
finite compass
I honestly don't think there's a traitor legion that I actively dislike