Warhammer and Such

[thin ibex]

administratum logistician character model

or something

[spice flicker]

Administratum quartermaster

[soft willow]

Give him an anti-tank weapon and Agents will be in business.

[thin ibex]

honestly, give agents drop sentinels with lascannons, or missile launchers + stubbers

or or

like twin linked grenade launchers

with a drum magazine

[soft willow]

Leman Russ Demolishers.

[thin ibex]

ironicaly i think if the chimera's multilaser was twin linked, itd be WAY more believable as an adhoc/light AT weapon

[soft willow]

The inquisition is shown using them in the fluff, add them and Stormtroopers to the codex's allied options.

Though that might be too good given how well the faction can score.

[thin ibex]

yeaaaaah i suppose so

give the agents a unit with anti vehicle in some capacity

(special weapons squad makes a return?)

[soft willow]

Breachers have it on a model!

[thin ibex]

oh yo?

i mean thats something

not a lot, but its a thing

[soft willow]

Good ole Chainfist busting down bulkhead doors and tank armor.

[thin ibex]

on the subject of a KT that brings AT; the kroot farstalkers get a londaxi tribalest. Imagine if normal krootox riders had those as an option

[soft willow]

And there's a deceptive amount of regular melta fire in the list one model in a squad at a time.

[thin ibex]

melta often feels like the go big/go home AT option these days

low wound, high damage

lascannons being less of a gambit for a lower damage ceiling

and the specialised AT stuff with str 13+ being the alpha predators

that got me thinking about the field gun's heavy lascannon

it seems decent, but not efficient compared to just spamming hvy weapon teams

str 14 at 2 shots seems pretty good for an infantry model tho

just too fragile

i think if i built guard, id prolly bring em

[soft willow]

Some kind of lascannon squad would probably be enough to round out Agents.

Just a few Str 12 shots even if expensive points wise would make them more playable.

[thin ibex]

give em field guns! just would never get orders, but thats no great crime

i do think they'd round out nicely with an Indirect Fire option, and a halfway decent AT option

but the points cost and efficiency of their AT option would be a spicy consideration

[spice flicker]

Inquisitoral Demolition squad which are just devestator marines but as baseline humans.

Lascannon, missile launcher, heavy bolters, etc.

[thin ibex]

let em run tankbustas xD

Impr'el Ajunts

[soft willow]

God, someone should convert Orks to a counts as Ajunts army.

[thin ibex]

im legit surprised more inquisitors dont have an ogryn bodyguard

[soft willow]

Ogryn are bad at information security.

[thin ibex]

oh yeah thats true

but they ARE good at krumpin; just dont tell em nothin

or use a lot of big words

kinda surprised at how Orks pretty much changed how they do AT

tankbustas are kinda bad

so you mostly rely on big vehicles or beast snaggas

mass power klaws don't really cut it

and rokkits are more like... a paint scratcher for hte most part

but they do hit hard

and they're easy enough to take in volume

surprised refering to a months old dex at this point

but just odd that like, their dedicated AT ranged weapons arent REALLY a thing too much now

though i suppose fittingly, its a volume of fire thing rather than quality

which still makes it so hard to pick a zzap gun

despite thinking they're very fun

i suppose it is reasonably orky that their best way to krump tanks is to hit em in melee or ram em wit hcars

rather than use a kannon

[spice flicker]

I thinking for the crusade to have multiple key locations and benefits for claiming said area for your faction. The locations include: an ark mechanicus ship, an large abandoned but well stocked space station above a gas giant, a space Hulk, maiden world, world that once fell to chaos during the HH with 4 moons that may or may not be named for the chaos gods, a temperate world covered in ruins from past failed colonization efforts and dozens of moons scattered with wrecked vehicles and walkers.

I was planning on having it be that to fully control a planet a faction will need to do a best 2 out of 3 and no army can battle twice in these battles. Taking a location will net your faction a bonus depending on the planet and will continue until the other side takes it from you. Some example boons I was considering were:

1 extra RP after the battle
100 extra supply points when you purchase reinforcements
Reroll for battle honors and weapon modifications
1 reroll of an out of action check per battle.

What do you think and any ideas for locations, boons, and what boon to pair with what location? Also what do you think of the idea for the rules for taking a location?

Imperium would start with control of the Ark Mechanicus while the Xenos would start with the maiden world.

As the crusade goes on I do plan on a few moons becoming locations at least since part of the overarching goal for the crusade is finding access to a supposedly lost forgeworld that was 2nd only to Mars in terms of technology and relics before the sector collapsed thanks to a warpstorm.

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/05/soar-above-the-killzone-and-blow-it-all-up-with-new-universal-equipment/

equipedment

so the unexploded grenades are not to track who has equipment because! no one has equipment anymore

interesting

I guess they might just be fun markers to track if youve used your grenades yet or something

2 regular barricades take one slot, and then the two new barricades are a slot each

one is heavy cover with a big sillhouette and one is portable so anyone can run in with a big shield regardless of team now

which is pretty dope

[past sphinx]

Interesting how killteam has gone from "squad sized 40k" to the gamey goop of 10th

Though makes sense you want the same vibe across the two biggest systems and old school killteam would be a mess to translate across to 10th

[jaunty dawn]

huh?

[thin ibex]

How do you mean gamey goop? Like mechanically focused?

Rather than simulationist?

Or just the reduction in option choices?

[floral herald]

KT is really not that much like 10e

[balmy wave]

it's always been noticeably different to full 40K

for better

[floral herald]

KT16 was probably the closest it came to full 40K and it was weaker for it

[thin ibex]

It's always been a skirmish game moreso than a wargame, with a tighter rules spread, perspective, and scale.

The difference between 1e and 2e was the tightening further on the perspective and rules refinement

[balmy wave]

Games Workshop make great skirmish games overall

[thin ibex]

I think kt before this update was a lot more accessible, and faster to play, than the one before

[balmy wave]

KT, Warcry, Titanicus, Middle-Earth

all very good games

[thin ibex]

And I don't really mind the next edition being even tighter and with less friction to get on the board and actually playing

Even if I am a guy who makes bazillion lists ill never play

[tired cairn]

🤔 what about the old 4e Kill team?

[jaunty dawn]

kt21/24 are honestly just their own thing

[floral herald]

Really different because it was highly asymmetric

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDO6qlZqbpU
Kinda cool that they have a top nid player for the episode

[solemn gull]

Pink

[cosmic tulip]

You can?!!

[pulsar cairn]

Atm what faction threatens Chaos the most?

Is it the Necrons?

Or the nids?

[rocky shale]

Themselves

Gross managerial incompetence

[uneven ember]

I feel like if there's an actual existential threat to Chaos... probably the 'nids?

[past sphinx]

its the nidcrons

neither power the warp and even activly suppress it

[uneven ember]

I just figure that the only real existential threat to Chaos is if the living get wiped, and the 'crons might talk about that but are at least as invested in being bitchy to each other
where the 'nids are more focused on the om nom nom

[pine matrix]

Finally got around to building my hearthkyn, pretty fun to build!

And lots of extra bits for when I build the rest of my Votann 😊

[uneven ember]

ohh, neat!

(I really do like the detail that "Some Kin Are Just Robots" is mechanical as well as fluff)

[jaunty dawn]

I love how that kill team has 'guy who has to carry everything'

[pine matrix]

Yeah!!! When I bought these guys I decided to have a Ironkin Theyn and deliberately didn't use the other Ironkin head for it's suggested character type.! If I could do a whole Ironkin squad I would

[pine matrix]

Yeah lmao the Roadie Kin, his suggested head is droopy mustache and bandana, too damn perfect to use anything else in my view

[upper canopy]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/QBEALpjxQTfwDJ5U.gif

This is cute

[modern tiger]

a sister of silence using sigh language is cool, but youre telling me that the space marine doesnt know it?

[floral herald]

Thoughtmark is pretty rare in M41 aiui

Since the SoS have been in seclusion for so long

[wild fog]

Canonically they have their own sign language used in combat

[floral herald]

And yeah - space marines usually learn Battlesign or whatever its called instead

[modern tiger]

ah, i see

didnt think that GW would actully have lore on that

[uneven ember]

Not that I think 40K goes too deep on this sort of thing, but, there is a difference between something like ASL and something like military hand signals

[modern tiger]

chalk it up to imperial bureaucratic fuckery that they dont have a standardized sign language for military purposes i guess then

[still warren]

Custodes know their sign language because they work closely with sisters of silence but i'm not sure how much regular space marines interact with them

[wild fog]

Sisters of Silence are rare to encounter

Even by 40k standards

[modern tiger]

yeah

[uneven ember]

yeah but also the IoM really doesn't do "standardized" as a rule

[modern tiger]

yeah lol

[tepid stratus]

Usually if you encounter a sister of silence it usually means the situation is so bad your life expectancy is measured in minutes or there's a psyker on world that needs to be collected for the black ships

[modern tiger]

yep

was cool to see the effect of a null on the psyker

she just had a dome of "No." around her

[uneven ember]

Every IG regiment, SoB Order, SM Chapter, etc does their own thing

[wild fog]

Notice they've been drifting away from "Blanks make me feel revulsion" to "I don't pereceive them"

[tepid stratus]

Well that is usually how people reacted to Jenitea when she wasn't trying to melt their brains

[jaunty dawn]

BSL is playing the part of a much more obscure sign language in the same way that english is playing the part of like, probably high gothic

[jaunty dawn]

it's just blank power levels

sisters of silence train to be invisible

unlucky blank who everyone hates for no logical reason still exist

[uneven ember]

but yeah also while, again, 40K doesn't have to make sense I could definitely see SM hand signs that are very different from like the SoS language
real-world infantry learn hand signals, which everyone's seen in movies when they're showing people being sneaky but in real life even more than that they're used because when/after everyone's been shooting guns nobody can hear shit

[jaunty dawn]

as do pariahs that kill anyone who comes near cause of how powerful a null they are

sos also have a special dialect called battle mark they use in combat

[uneven ember]

but they don't need to be as complex as ASL, they're not for holding conversations they're to communicate things like "we're going over there"
and they need to be clear to people who are, say, standing behind you while you "talk"

[jaunty dawn]

thoughtmark is like, sci fi bene gesserit shit probably

[uneven ember]

(Traditionally English is Low Gothic, while High Gothic is "terrible dog-Latin")

[thin ibex]

There are probably MANY other forms of cultural signing beyond what we see with SM and SoS, and some chapters likely even have their own versions

[jaunty dawn]

I mean technically yeah

[soft willow]

It is cool of them to use BSL for it though and to give them more depth.

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[thin ibex]

We have multiple kinds of signing just on planet earth, the Imperium is made of thousands of planets

[soft willow]

Even if my ASL wired brain flips out whenever I see it.

[jaunty dawn]

I think it'd be cool if sos went in more on being representation of a kind of Deaf community

even if they have other fantasy reasons

just culturally

[thin ibex]

Astartes battle signing is likely not meant to be used for intimate, full context communication, but is likely developed by the chapters specifically around tactical utility and efficiency

[soft willow]

I mean they involved a CODA in the sign language stuff and they talk about it being representation in their article on it.

[jaunty dawn]

yeee

[thin ibex]

Big ideas, communicated clearly and quickly, and is achievable in full battle plate

I imagine SoS have more ornate and articulated armor, and have a far more complex signing system that can be used in combat or to have full conversations that involve complex ideas and concepts

[soft willow]

Given that they don't speak even amongst themselves they'd need a more robust sign language to communicate just like life shit.

[floral herald]

I think the space marine sign languages are syntactically complete

Since they're also for stuff in space and when deafened and such

[jaunty dawn]

I imagine they're hypno indoctrinated into that stuff yeah

like the space marine isn't going 'idk sign language soz' they're going 'oh shit, I don't know that sign language"

[spice flicker]

What's a good name for an Imperial agents army that is both ordo xenos and navy/rogue trader focused?

[uneven ember]

well in space you have your comms network in the helmets... but yeah, you're probably right that they've developed stuff for whatever use

[soft willow]

From the Inquisitorial or Naval point of view?

[spice flicker]

Alliance between a ordo xenos inqusiitor and a rogue trader.

[soft willow]

(Rogue Trader Name) Dynasty 10th fleet: Inquisitorial Operations Division Assigned to Inquisitor {name}

[jaunty dawn]

probably named for the mission the group has been gathered for

[spice flicker]

I guess that could work but a bit of a mouthful.

[soft willow]

Give it a Goofy three word code name.

[uneven ember]

(one of my favorite moments in the All Guardsmen Party was when the PCs wound up watching a pair of Space Marines arguing with their external speakers off)
(so you've got these two armored supersoldiers in heated and animated argument, about you, sometimes even taking the time to point at you specifically, but not able to hear anything but the most muffled yell or two through the sealed armor)

[spice flicker]

Part of the Phyraxos expedition alongside other Imperial elements to reclaim a sector lost since the horus heresy due to a warpstorm and a series of failed expeditions in the past

[soft willow]

Double points for goofy unlatin.

[past sphinx]

good news, spyrer hunters are just as fiddly and awful to build as i dreamed they would be

nothing as right bastardly as a single squat powerfist thumb on the sprue but a suprising amount of ball joints, something ithought GW hand sworn off of

[spice flicker]

In crusade can assassins get experience?

[solemn gull]

I'm sure you will still paint them well

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/mikefranchina_/status/1831825665794121981?t=WkZFtc9EZxxKmIqPVlOOvQ&s=19

Mike Franchina (@mikefranchina_) on X

the new space marine game should have this as a skin

Twitter · Sep 5, 2024, 10:44 PM

[desert jay]

This is actually a Chaos marine that has ||stretched flayed skin over his helmet||

[past sphinx]

i cannot express the amount of hubris required to make a model lean like this

this is spitting in the face of god

[upper canopy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/953419433492246569/1281412221728985271/20240905_193409.jpg?ex=66db9fa1&is=66da4e21&hm=31389281b64d5f94409c4f9283c16f05a4660001b52a8d8f1d0460ce610c8737&

[past sphinx]

saturnine termintors are perfection

[upper bluff]

Terminators are not allowed to have necks

Anyways my money's on the Skitarii

That ranger on the right has nothing but confidence, "look at this neckless heretic lol"

[finite compass]

The Ranger on the right is more like "Take a good look at the 'I Really Wish I Weren't Here Right Now' button"

[uneven ember]

If there's one thing that's been consistent across Terminator variants it's that trying to work out how the hell someone is supposed to fit in there has never been a good idea

[bold halo]

bro walked face first into a locked door

[past sphinx]

i cannot believe i hadnt seen this till today

thats it

thats the 4000th warhammer

[valid brook]

One of the foundational pieces of 40k art for me personally

The BRB changed my fuckin life tbh

[spice flicker]

A friend's idea for a dark eldar crusade force. He calls them the "Where Are We Boys" since they're incredibly lost dark eldar

crusade (740 points)

Drukhari
Incursion (1000 points)
Skysplinter Assault

CHARACTERS

Haemonculus (60 points)
• 1x Haemonculus tools and scissorhands
1x Stinger pistol

BATTLELINE

Kabalite Warriors (110 points)
• 1x Sybarite
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Splinter rifle
• 9x Kabalite Warrior
• 9x Close combat weapon
9x Splinter rifle

Kabalite Warriors (110 points)
• 1x Sybarite
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Splinter rifle
• 9x Kabalite Warrior
• 9x Close combat weapon
9x Splinter rifle

OTHER DATASHEETS

Tantalus (230 points)
• 1x Dire scythe blades
1x Pulse disintegrators

Tantalus (230 points)
• 1x Dire scythe blades
1x Pulse disintegrators

Exported with App Version: v1.18.0 (46), Data Version: v464

My reaction boiled down to "please have mercy on us all"

[thin ibex]

Carcharadons.
Stormlance or shadow masters?

Or neither, and which one instead?

[cinder wraith]

ok so my specialist died

oh well

at least i get the weapons and equipment before they pass (not armor tho)

now

all my guys leveled up yippie

[cosmic tulip]

The new Tithes episode looks cool

I like the fem custodes

Shame the custodes subreddit blew up

[pulsar cairn]

[solemn gull]

I wonder if all the firstborn are dead yet

Like at this point in canon

[south axle]

Are the people that crossed the Rubicon counted?

[pulsar cairn]

uhhh

if we count chaos probably not

also we have the Risen

and that space wolves guy

i think his name is Bjorn

[solemn gull]

No

[south axle]

Bjorn the Fell-Handed

[solemn gull]

Unless you mean counted as dead

[south axle]

But yeah, dreadnoughts don't cross the Rubicon so they are still firstborn

[solemn gull]

I wonder what will happen to all the dreadnought chassis when there are no firstborn to shove into them

[pulsar cairn]

they'll probably either adapt them or use the material for newer ones

[south axle]

Unsure if being Primaris stops you from being interred into a Dreadnought

As it is mostly a life support system with arms and legs

[pulsar cairn]

short legs

they would look cute if they were tiny

[arctic lynx]

There's the Redemptor Chassis Dreads, which are designed for Primaris use

[pulsar cairn]

they cant look cute

their legs are long

[jaunty dawn]

the redemptor coffin is the same size

so theoretically both chassis are still in use

but primaris lore is weird

[hard whale]

doesn't the redemptor finish off the dying space marine faster than the old version?

so it would make sense that firstborn would avoid them if possible

[arctic lynx]

Yeah, something about how the Neural Interface lets it move/react at faster than human speeds but burns out the interned Marine.

[jaunty dawn]

which is basically just the leviathan dread lore

but carab culln got put in one and is theoretically still doing fine so

[arctic lynx]

Yeah, they're probably related systems.

[granite basin]

I guess it makes sense that it burns Marines faster bc Primaris are built stronger than firstborn

[arctic lynx]

Just don't shove your ancients into combats in the dangerous mind-melting chassis back to back.

[granite basin]

So you're compensating for more power To burn

[jaunty dawn]

i view it as like before they just triage to what coffins they have available

so if a castaferrum or contemptor is available then thats gonna take a chapter hero

whereas redemptors can grant any marine the chance to serve beyond death

[granite basin]

Idk why I never thought of it as different grades of coffin before, that makes a lot of sense

[south axle]

Bjorn is only woken up every 1000 years atm to prolong his life

As he fought next to Russ and all

[past sphinx]

Seth is to full of spite to cross or die

And castallen crow is still kicking

[pastel rampart]

None of the GK have crossed over, as that would require making new GK models.

[thin ibex]

I imagine that there are still a fair number of firstborn out and about. They'd all be multi century veterans now, but that's not exactly a huge barrier to the marines.

I forget, has Logan crossed the Rubicon?

[pastel rampart]

Nope.

Actually I don't think any SW character has crossed the Rubicon, but I'm sure that'll change when their codex comes out. Seems like they're keeping it tied to that.

[south axle]

What's with the wolves and not crossing the Rubicon?

[desert jay]

GW needs to do new models if/when they ever cross a character over

That's all

But there's already a bunch of non-named primaris SW

[south axle]

And Ragnar crossed iirc

[thin ibex]

I believe Ragnar explicitly has, and he's somewhat emblematic

And I think Ulrik might have but I'd need to check

[jaunty dawn]

also since dark imperium got retconned firstborn arent really that much older than they were before

with both angels receiving fairly large releases this edition id be surprised if space wolves missed out on that

[thin ibex]

I think none of the other jarls have crossed but every great company now has primaris members, at the behest of Logan

Though also there are some wolf lords who are just like, narrative stubs

Sven Bloodhowl is just MIA with no notes on who replaced him atm

[jaunty dawn]

kinda wild space wolves were like the only army to not get a new model in 9e

they got a rebox for hounds of morkai

[thin ibex]

I kinda get it, they have a wealth of models, but it might have been cool to get something

I do think the hounds are a cool model and team

Honestly they could be their own kill team, except that they are too specialized

[jaunty dawn]

yeah but like, literally every other army got something, even if it was something kinda throwaway

hounds of morkai is just a rebox of reivers and the existing space wolf primaris upgrade

[past sphinx]

And the hounds ain't even that wolfy

[desert jay]

And sometimes new thing is just a new model for an existing unit, so it doesn't even need to mean adding to army bloat

[thin ibex]

I honestly disagree, they're very wolfy in the same way wolf scouts are. I love them for representing an aspect of the wolves people often ignore

The flashing knives of a space wolf hunter and tracker is just as wolfy as the wolf guard terminator

[past sphinx]

Its 2 extra heads and 3 bits

And the pauldrons

[thin ibex]

I was talking thematically, not the literal kit

[jaunty dawn]

the sword drawing pose could easily be from the reiver kit if I didnt know it wasnt

[past sphinx]

And none of them are named anything related to dogs!

[jaunty dawn]

...hound?

[south axle]

TIL Hounds aren't related to dogs

[past sphinx]

The unit yes but the sargent isn't

[thin ibex]

Morkai is also a wolf in sw lore

[past sphinx]

How can I trust a space wolf sargent who isn't named like Basset longear

[jaunty dawn]

hes a pack leader

what names are you referring to haha

[past sphinx]

The dudes themselves not the unit

[jaunty dawn]

who are The Dudes

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/06/kill-team-managing-the-range-of-kill-teams-in-the-new-edition/

[jaunty dawn]

wait whuh

why would the kommandos box leave the range

[floral herald]

This was leaked/stated a while ago

[jaunty dawn]

its the kommandos box for 40k

[floral herald]

Kommandos will live on that way yeah

Basically they’re only maintaining the comp/balanced rules for like 3 dozen KTs

But I don’t think anyone’s going outright OOP once they term out of KT yet

[jaunty dawn]

thats a really weird example to use haha

[cinder wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-orange-cat-orange-cats-cat-weird-gif-17010424884748616697

[thin ibex]

Interesting so they're segmenting support into seasons

[cinder wraith]

i was hyped for KT

not anymore

[thin ibex]

Eh? What about that kills your excitement?

[jaunty dawn]

I think it does mean upgrade sprue teams will go out of range or have to be added to their box? which kinda sucks for stuff like legionaries

[floral herald]

This was predicted by nearly the whole playerbase since the game is getting unwieldy to prep for now

[thin ibex]

Yeah I was gonna say

It makes sense

The number of kill teams will get bigger

[jaunty dawn]

angels of death replacing intercession?

[thin ibex]

Guess so

[floral herald]

It’ll also be interesting to see what happens in the tourney meta if some standouts like VDT and Gellerpox cycle out

[thin ibex]

I think that's probably a good thing

To keep the meta fresh

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like its kinda weird to see stuff like pathfinders rotate out

[thin ibex]

Similar to how the tourney setting also shifted meta frequently (things like into the dark shifting Pathfinders out of meta without making Pathfinders bad)

[jaunty dawn]

i mean its fair to make it strictly time based but they feel kinda, foundational

[thin ibex]

Sadge, I never got to play my Pathfinders, but they still look cool as hell

[floral herald]

I mean they’re supported for the rest of the edition, it’ll only matter if you don’t go to a tournament this year

[thin ibex]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

i mean theyre still around for another like year, and even then I feel like ppl are gonna be more inclined to play rotated out teams than legends

[thin ibex]

It's funny that I was looking at getting the phobos team too

[desert jay]

I expect as KTs hit their 4 year mark there'll be three different things that can happen

• Box still sold, KT just not a legal team
• Box no longer sold
• "New" KT using the old box

[tardy vault]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/06/ruin-the-realms-with-mighty-custom-heroes-forged-upon-the-anvil-of-apotheosis-rules/

[thin ibex]

To make into wolfspears

Which I think I still might do

It's not like

[floral herald]

Yeah I wouldn’t be shocked if they just release a Pau Tathfinders KT in a couple years

[thin ibex]

I ever play tournaments

[jaunty dawn]

I mean if you want the phobos upgrade sprue Id do it while you can haha

[floral herald]

Yeah haha

I better snap that up

I wanted to buy em anyway

[thin ibex]

There's an upgrade sprue? I thought I just buy the KT and I'm set?

Was I mistaken?

[jaunty dawn]

the kt box contains the upgrade sprue

otherwise the models are just the incursor/infiltrator box

[thin ibex]

Ah OK, so it does also come with models though

[jaunty dawn]

as far as anyone can tell, once the team rotates out of classified the upgrade sprue part of that box might just go oop

yeah

[thin ibex]

It's not an upgrade sprue that I need to separately buy a Incursor and infiltrator team

[jaunty dawn]

no

[thin ibex]

Whew

Ok

[jaunty dawn]

what I mean is, if there are parts on that sprue specifically you wanted to use, theres a decent chance that wont be available as part of that box in a year

while barring something wild like the sacrosant squatting, infiltrator/incursor box from the 40k range isnt going anywhere

[thin ibex]

Ohh

Ok

Yeah so I should pick it up soon if I want it

Think I'll see a price drop?

[jaunty dawn]

unlikely

but go third party if you can

[dense idol]

from a game design standpoint, an expiration date is the only practical way to reconcile "a constant supply of new killteams" and "a balanced game"

[desert jay]

Yeah, just ask Magic

[floral herald]

I wouldn’t even count on it going OOP in bighammer

Since they’re unit upgrades for the fellas in that game as well

[jaunty dawn]

legionaries and phobos are weird cause theres kt upgrades and then theres just Stuff they didn't put in the original kit

[floral herald]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

like how the multipart incursor/infiltrator doesnt have a helix adept

or the chaincannon in legionaries

[floral herald]

Legionaries especially because they got sick ass upgrades from the KT one

[jaunty dawn]

i wouldnt put it past gw to just revert legionaries to pre kt options in 11th edition though 😬

[floral herald]

Noooo my buried power fists

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah sku bloat can kill a company so

its relatively cool that theyre guaranteeing four years for every release

if they stick to it anyway

oh! apparently the tau combat patrol has the pathfinder kt sprue in it

so hopefully that means when kt: pathfinder rotates out theyll be reboxed as just pathfinders

which will make them more expensive lol

[unreal cosmos]

I do appreciate them stressing "but unless you're playing by official tournament guidelines it literally doesn't matter"

[jaunty dawn]

ultimately your local community decides if thats true

but I do think theres a better chance of people being chill with old teams than the reception legends gets

but people kept playing compendium teams for an entire edition despite receiving no updates whatsoever after the first year? obv them being legal for comp play has a hand in that but still

[tepid stratus]

So I've been trying to plan out how to fill the 700pt gap in my scions army since it keeps getting cheaper every points update. I'm at the point now where I'm considering loading up two all lascannon heavy weapon teams to add some anti tank I can shove in a valkyrie and filling the remainder with a vindicaire, Corvus black star and a 10 man kill team with Artemis. A melee kill team with lethal hits gives me some nice melee threat I would otherwise be relying on ogryns for in a mobile package

[upper canopy]

https://x.com/OculusImperia/status/1832050058918764778

Oculus Imperia🏳️‍🌈 (@OculusImperia) on X

I love that the cretins angry at the new Custodes are like "well I'd like her more if they followed THIS design rule!!" and then post something like this

Twitter · Sep 6, 2024, 1:35 PM

[solemn gull]

Oof warpcoven got squatted

[jaunty dawn]

only as much as every other season 1 team

[thin ibex]

the way i took it also was sort of a suggested, play within a season for best balance

so play within your season one selections against each other for a more balanced experience

rather than "these guys are out and gone"

[jaunty dawn]

which when compendium stuff is Gone Gone

though it remains to be seen how fundamentally incompatible the editions are

[solemn gull]

Hopefully they make a new “chaos psyker marine” team

[jaunty dawn]

or chaos marine team

[solemn gull]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

oh wait I guess the night lords one is that

[solemn gull]

They are pretty specialized

A generic team would be nice

[jaunty dawn]

yeah but compared to three psyker team

[granite basin]

really funny that anyone thinks a superhuman beef soldier is going to look waifish or attractive

[solemn gull]

I don’t think they look ugly

[granite basin]

I don't either

I guess *Conventionally attractive is the qualifier

[thin ibex]

yeah i was gonna say there are ABSOLUTELY people who find that design attractive; i think the issue is more that they dont like the character purely on aesthetic reasoning

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/BitsHammer/status/1832035287796736086

[solemn gull]

I miss the goofy lead models

They had so much charm

[valid brook]

Pewter 4ever tbh

The vast majority of my 40k collection is metal IG dudes

[pastel rampart]

I have a great love for old-school pewter models but also I am 10000% okay with them being cast in resin or plastic.

There's plenty of scans of old metal models to print out your own and I'm fine with that, haha.

[solemn gull]

Oh yeah 100% lead is terrible for you and resin is much safer

But also the power stances and goblin green bases are very cute

[valid brook]

tbf the lead hazard from old pewter is negligible so long as you’re not like, sanding the models and then eating the dust

Resin dust is pretty bad for you, too

[pastel rampart]

Lots of companies moved away from pure lead in models in the early 90s, so after like...idk 1994? it was all pewter.

[valid brook]

For a while in the ‘90s, RAFM offered both (lead was cheaper)

[solemn gull]

You don’t kiss your models for good luck before hotshotting with plasma?!

[valid brook]

Yeah but they’re painted and varnished for my safety

[solemn gull]

If Jimmy Spacemarine is risking life and limb to kill a wizard for me I’m risking a little lead poisoning to show him solidarity

[valid brook]

We can ingest a little lead, as a treat

[solemn gull]

I do think the nurgle range has only gotten better with time though

[unreal cosmos]

https://youtu.be/u1Qan2oFKPk?si=kIu0XCF9k4PMjHYT

[spice flicker]

If my Imperial agents army isn't the weakest/worst in the crusade I'll be surprised.

[rocky shale]

Depends on how many tanks there are

[spice flicker]

It's xenos vs Imperium with the xenos armies being Tau, Necrons (who i suspect might go infantry spam to focus on reanimation (space undead drew her in to the faction)), eldar, and dark eldar (who may or may not have 2 tantalus in a 750 pt game.)

My allies in the Imperium are guard (infantry+artillery focused), Custodes, and space marines

[thin ibex]

yall think heavy intercessors would be grey hunters in the sw?

im thinking so, and the grey hunters just get outfitted with different mkX variants based on the mission

[past sphinx]

Heavier intercessors

[jaunty dawn]

yeah probably

[thin ibex]

they seem fun to play imo, as little back line shooters for standing on an objective, maybe with a lieutenant

[past sphinx]

They really need a power fist somewhere in there

[rocky shale]

Tau might give you trouble but otherwise those are pretty ideal matchups

Elves don't have enough toughness to ruin your day unless they make slant lists for it

[spice flicker]

Eldar and dark eldare are going to be pains due to their range and anti-infantry

[rocky shale]

Yeah the deldar might be tough because of anti infantry

But you're an sneaky secondary objective army like them

[spice flicker]

Plan to outscore not outkill

[rocky shale]

Yeah

Your guns suck your OC doesnt

[spice flicker]

When going from 750 to 1k I think I'll add a vendicare but not sure about remaining 145 points

Did purchase the enhancements for extra deep strike and infiltrate units

[rocky shale]

Make sure to check keywords on those enhancements and transports

You can get like 4 breacher squads with infiltrate and 3 more squads of infantry in deep strike

[spice flicker]

Did consider adding a deathwatch team and just having 45 points to spare for the next jump

Plan to infiltrate the kill teams as I get more and deepstrike the breachers

Only have 1 rouge trader but might get a 2nd to have a 4th set of infiltrators.

Did consider investing quite a bit in chimeras for the others

[rocky shale]

Only 1 rogue trader squad can use the special ability

Oh yeah it's only voidfarers that can get the deep strike enhancement

[jaunty dawn]

in crusade

you can take enahancements from any detachment :)

[soft willow]

Breachers and Armsmen are the choices really.

[spice flicker]

What enhancement from other detachments might be worth it for agents?

Voidsman I am using as bodyguards for my sole rogue trader at the moment so I can hide it in a Chimera and take advantage of double heavy bolters and protection.

[rocky shale]

Voidfarers is a keyword not a detachment

[soft willow]

Ordo Xenos has a good one for a Watch Master to give you Anti.

[spice flicker]

Now I need to track down screenshots of some of the agents crusade rules, agendas, and other things.

[jaunty dawn]

oh oops

[spice flicker]

Would it be worth getting the enhancement from the ordo hereticus Detachment that will let me redeploy 3 models on top of the d3 the rogue trader already does? Alternatively should I go for the deepstrike watch master+deathwatch combo instead as a 3rd enhancement?

[spice flicker]

Finally found the agents crusade rules and man do they seem fun.

[thin ibex]

Can you get any enhancements from your faction detachments regardless of which you run?

For crusade I mean

[jaunty dawn]

ye!

[past sphinx]

Stunning you can build both with every option

[spice flicker]

Enhancements stick with the characters and stay with them even if you switch detachments between battles. So a fun SM combo is the raven guard infiltrator enhancement on a gravis character + aggressors + Detachment like the white scars or salamanders one.

Or the tyranid Vanguard enhancement to redeploy in another detachment.

[solemn gull]

Are there helmets?

[past sphinx]

There's the ones with multiocular layout

Thats about as far as you get

Getting shot in the mouth is a skill issue

[pulsar cairn]

isnt there a genesteakler cult in necromunda Atlas?

[past sphinx]

Yes

Several

[pulsar cairn]

what

several?

[past sphinx]

Yeah, denominational divide and all that

None big enough to unify

[pulsar cairn]

i suppose that's a good thing?

[past sphinx]

Thats an anti revolutionary aditiude

Do you not wish to see the powers ripped from their lofty spires and crushed beneath to boot of the 3 armed proletariat brood comrade

[pulsar cairn]

that just sounds to me that ur from a rival gang

[valid brook]

Working on my last couple of old style plastic Cadians and it’s finally setting in

End of an era 🫡

[wintry mist]

not particularly, no. Sorry. /j

Have decided on some more aspects of possible WanG campaign

It's shaping up to be cool

platoon command squad campaign...

[wintry mist]

gives some room for some fun bits, and either an officer or an NPC officer

[past sphinx]

Leftist infighting SMH

finally a contender for big motherfuckers unlimited

[valid brook]

The party as an HQ staff getting dragged around by a feckless NPC junior officer pulled straight from Sharpe is a setup I would absolutely love to run

[past sphinx]

No heretic space marine, no monsterous orkish machine of war or Hive beast is as deadly and terrifying as an officer with a map and compass

[mild glen]

Oh. Oh. No. Ciaphus Cain 2.0, this time, they're actually useless.

[finite compass]

https://tenor.com/view/we-are-behind-you-blackadder-big-push-general-melchett-baldrick-gif-22219486

[valid brook]

Oooh yeah, Hugh Laurie as George is the perfect prototype

[uneven ember]

All we need is some Imperial vim and vigour and we'll soon find that Johnny Heretic doesn't much care for the taste of hot lasgun!

[wintry mist]

I just imagined Captain America from Gen Kill but considering his penchant for collecting the weapons of his enemies he would be quickly killed for heresy

But yeah if no one steps up to the role: definitely going to be an incompetent officer

Or an officer who sucks but wants the approval of his seniors and the veterans so he will gladly take advice

[valid brook]

You know what we call an officer who sucks but gladly takes advice from NCOs?

A good officer

[wintry mist]

Yeah but they have no initiative on their own

That's mostly my meaning

They are a pushover sycophant who just so happens to be easily manipulated most by the party

[pastel rampart]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/reel/C7WjF2kOnTx/?igsh=MW42Z3c5bTI4ZHV4cw==

[mild glen]

The vaunted 6" move

[spice flicker]

Can navy breachers ride in inquisitorial chimeras?

[crisp lance]

https://fixupx.com/airbagged/status/1832050977131639043

[floral herald]

Yeah ultramarines all have blue hair

[past sphinx]

finally humanity is closer to our final form

crab

also interesting spyrers are quite fancy from the front, all smooth space age lines but the back the real bastard is perceived, leather and straps and loose cabling

savage ignorant fools dressing up as something from a bygone age that they cannot hope to understand

real techno-barbarism hours

[floral herald]

https://x.com/LHGart/status/1831973925276008617
This is maybe the most 90s warhammer design I've seen

L H G Λ Я T 🥔 (@LHGart) on X

Chaplain with collar looks cool

Twitter · Sep 6, 2024, 8:33 AM

Shocking that it happened now

[runic swallow]

Bro is dripped out

But also yes, very 90s image comic vibe

[floral herald]

Makes me wonder if the new class is gonna be Chaplain

Or if he just looks sick as hell

[finite compass]

Playing this is also just driving home how much I've missed since Primaris ruined everything. 😛

I miss my old school bolters and plasma guns

I also miss when singleplayer was singleplayer and not coop with bots.

Most of the time in this it's fine

But like the one sequence where ||somebody has to keep Rippers away with a flamer while you do objectives, and get rushed by other Tyranids|| was obviously made with multiple players in mind. It suuuuuuuucked solo.

[floral herald]

Yeah that segment was really fun with a friend and really stressful solo

[finite compass]

Friends are very good at handling Zoanthropes

NPCs, not so much

[thin ibex]

Oh yall too?

Lol was sitting here thinking about how that was my least favorite moment in the whole game

But it was a lot more fun coop

Bed time question; Nids or Necrons, personal/subjective, who's the more powerful faction in lore?

(As of the current timeline)

Knee jerk, I say crons, but I'm on the fence after thinking about it a short while

[remote wharf]

Mentioned them before, but here's the Sheet for my custom marines, in their proper colors.

[upper canopy]

Oh hell yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/MeU_317/status/1832209679352836354

[pulsar cairn]

i wonder if any kind of electronic entertainment exists in 40k

[granite basin]

I think of Bible games but more futuristic lol

[past sphinx]

The imperium with something more advanced than game-n-watch would feel strange to me

[floral herald]

I think the only mention of something like that is the short story “hell in a bottle”

Which has a real fancy simspace training unit get possessed basically when a nurglite army it simulates gains sentience

[past sphinx]

Thats a deep cut right off the hip lmao

[past sphinx]

Thats rad as hell

[floral herald]

I heard about it on Reddit ngl

This is funny though

[solemn gull]

These models are so cool I might have to actually give GW money again

[onyx elm]

Skanking is a sign of demonic possession.

[thin ibex]

Silly list

[dense sedge]

My brother found a place that was selling a few starters for 140 can so now he has a kharadron spearhead

[tired cairn]

Space Marines really should better consider optimizing their chance of dying for the Emperor better

[thin ibex]

Another silly list

[finite compass]

Double Eagle at least confirms that flight simulators for training purposes exist.

There's also the 'totally not Warhammer' wargame the Iron Warriors have in the HH books

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxfLy9Z3iww

only like five minutes into this but there's a kinda funny dynamic

where it feels like the guy has some nostalgia and is being more 'reasonable' about the weapons as a result

like the whole cartridge + rocket thing he's kinda like "yeah I guess it just really is crazy powerful"

[ebon forge]

Not posting spoilers
but the photo mode was a blessing

[floral herald]

Titus' dumb smile is great

[pulsar cairn]

Space marines annoy me most dont like normal humans but fight for humanity?

[past sphinx]

When you start out by calling yourself a demigod then have a big fight about how you should rule over "mortals"things don't get better from there in the grimdark darkness

You cannot convince me such tempestuous and egotistical creatures would have survived a complete imperium

Bound up by brainwashing a sense of eternal duty from childhood

[bright dove]

Look, the Thunder Warriors had to be put down. Who's to say the Space Marines wouldn't have eventually met the same fate?

[past sphinx]

Its hard to beat swords to plowshares when the sword is a child soldier that only wants to kill

A thing to witch the very idea of peace is alien

Robute saw it coming

[plucky token]

pretty sure a good few of the primarchs suspected it would have been their fate, yeah. from what i recall of the HH books i read at least

[finite compass]

Counterpoint: Salamanders

[pulsar cairn]

most*

[finite compass]

But for every Salamanders you have an Iron Hands

At best

[pulsar cairn]

yeah that's why i said most....i do like that the salamanders are a thing tho

[finite compass]

TBF though, the ones I can think of off the top of my head that were basically convinced that the Emperor was goign to do away with them were traitors.

Both had very very big reasons for the Imperium at large to be leery of them before the Heresy

...And only one had anything approaching a valid point

Curze and Angron

With Angron being the 'if you squint a bit, maybe bro has a point' one

[pulsar cairn]

wish i had squint fox

[desert jay]

Mortarion had a bit of a point too, though roughly the same one as Angron

[finite compass]

I thought Mortarion's whole motivation was "I hate Psykers putting themselves above humanity and now here's my father a Psyker putting himself above humanity."

[desert jay]

I think tyrants in general and not psykers specifically

[mild glen]

Konrad Kurze was the only Primarch to be an unqualified success.

[finite compass]

In that he performed exactly as intended?

On that note, instead of AUs where all the traitor primarchs are loyal and the loyal primarchs are traitors, know what would be interesting?

Same primarchs, different origin points.

Angron lands on Macragge instead of Nuceria

Magnus lands on Cthonia and is the first one to be discovered

etc.

[mild glen]

Yup.

[plucky token]

i think i've seen some AUs like that

at least like. glimpsed them

[past sphinx]

perty did the job

wasnt happy about it but was successful

[wintry mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1183808550854729832/1214432335513260082/rapidsave.com_short_man_with_gay_bolter-j5ajwtgasemc1.mov?ex=66ddd37f&is=66dc81ff&hm=154af49507ab97ff8497ade41a044f335cb7db91b3295eace02f5bf116c99cb9&

[past sphinx]

one day tacticals will be special made to order oppertunity

i aint ready for that

[wintry mist]

Been thinking about Wrath and Glory and realised I should actually run the campaign I wanted to bedore

Which was the Farsight Enclaves Gue'vesa'rio one...

[mild glen]

Okay. First "big" game of 40k tomorrow (read: in person and not Combat Patrol). Wish me luck. (I'm bringing 1000 points of T'au, they have Templars)

[floral herald]

Good luck!

[jaunty dawn]

have fun!

[spice flicker]

Raptors with plasma guns or melta guns?

[floral herald]

I think they’re both pretty solid

But plasma is more generally flexible unless you have a reroll wounds source similar for cracking hard targets

[spice flicker]

Heldrake or not at 750?

[past sphinx]

Hel no on the heldrake

[spice flicker]

Around what point level would the dragon be ok?

[past sphinx]

Something like 2.5k

A point bracket where you can just carve out the 250 points That you're going to lose

Sorry 185

Unless you specifically want to deal with enemy aircraft as much as I love them bench the poor b******

Currently their main utility at least in my eyes is being able to Charge and tie up aircraft which isn't something a lot of units can do And I think they have been costed for that kind of forgetting that literally nobody uses aircraft except for me

[floral herald]

I think anything above 1k is probably ok

At 750 you’re spending almost 25% of your points on a model which isn’t phenomenal from a points efficiency standpoint

[jaunty dawn]

but also might end up weirdly skewy depending on what opponent brings

[uneven ember]

oh I like this

[floral herald]

I think it would, but probably not that favorably unless you get lucky and it’s flyer skew haha

[jaunty dawn]

tbf I guess cause aircraft can't really block stuff doesn't really matter if it's like, hard to kill

[rocky shale]

Tau crisis suit spam

[wintry mist]

looking for people interested in joining a Wrath and Glory campaign set on Gue'vesa'rio, starting this Thursday 7PM BST

More info if u r interested...

[wintry mist]

reading more on the Farsight Enclaves

they really r just struggling huh

"And then the Farsight Enclaves were almost wiped out" must be a running joke in the Sept Worlds

[jaunty dawn]

yeaaaah

[wintry mist]

"Farsight is back!" and it's the fucking

attack on titan scene of the scout regiment returning

[thin ibex]

theyre a small portion of an already small empire, with little material support. Their main advantages are their relative isolation, an immortal genius for their cult of personality, and the beneficial breakdown of caste division

[mild glen]

I won my game 50-17 after four rounds! (Opps dice were not doing him favours. He pulled Bring It Down, turn 1. Against T'au. He didn't score it until turn 3.)

[spice flicker]

So two of the other players in the crusade I'm working on has approached me about something. I recently ranted to them about the absurdity of Agents and their transports/anti-armor and these two were among those who haven't fully locked in with their armies. One suggested that I give Agents a try but at a later point have them "go traitor" and start a chaos army if running pure Agents turns out to not be fun or effective. Me and that friend were in a vc with the third of our trio last night and a potential scheme came about. We currently the crusade is shaped up to be 4v4 Imperium vs xenos with 2 undecided but one of the two suggested that despite there being no chaos, us three could defect and start chaos armies making it 3v2v3 with 2 undecided. We haven't fully committed to this and the other two have locked in as CK and TS if we do this but I'm unsure what to do.

Should i go regular with the CSM, armored/mechanized DG, WE, or just stick with the headache that is forming that goes by Imperial Agents?

[cosmic tulip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusMechanicus/s/FiVGk4MZ3w

[spice flicker]

Honestly doesn't seem like a half bad list.

[thin ibex]

its not... terrible? Big horde army

but it doesnt really shoot very well

does have a very high volume of fire

and intercessors can bully weaker shooty infantry in melee

[floral herald]

Missing “Lieutenant Titus, Sergeant Gadriel, and Brother Chairon” who make it a 4000 pt list :p

[tardy vault]

tbf there is a Lieutenant in that list

but he is way under stat'd for his kill count

either that or his player had some loaded fucking dice

[rocky shale]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1265456955598831737/1282496665521098772/image.png?ex=66df9198&is=66de4018&hm=ea3e0fea4bb14b6f641e272a2dee3c37fc98d3ff056c97ab1f8d5e24cc4d3293&

Hilariously, after getting a codex that gave them actual detachments, imperial agents has dropped 15% in win rate

(Granted, they were previously at 45% with only 3 people playing them in tournaments anywhere)

[floral herald]

Weeklies are also usually pretty volatile in terms of wr

[runic swallow]

Yeah, you’d want a longer sample I’d think

[floral herald]

For agents at least there isn't really a way to do that but the weeky data bounces around more

[rocky shale]

Oh yeah I know the samples are skewed currently

Not a great sign though

[thin ibex]

i will say that that spread

overall

looks pretty healthy

with roughly a 15% gap between highest and lowest

[rocky shale]

GW has said they want everything from 55-45%

[floral herald]

I think its funny that mixed chaos has a significantly worse wr than any unmixed chaos

[rocky shale]

What is mixed chaos?

[floral herald]

Some combination of CSM+Daemons+Knights

Since you can soup them

[rocky shale]

Ohhh

That makes sense

[soft willow]

Agents also probably need a few weeks for people to cook and get something working.

[floral herald]

I think I'd be more interested to see before and after wrs with imperium factions which can soup them

Since that's IMO the bigger use of the codex

[rocky shale]

I dont think a whole lot changes for souping tbh

Voidsmen are back as being the cheapest objective sitters I think

The vindicare change is maybe something

[floral herald]

Yeah there's nothing that radical for souping

[rocky shale]

I do really hope they actually get the army to a viable state

I like my inquisitorial scrimblos

[thin ibex]

I feel like they're viable now, just not top tier competition viable

[rocky shale]

I mean it should be perfectly possible for GW to land every faction close to 45-55% WR even in competetive environments

There isn't some big barrier preventing GW from just making a faction not shit

[runic swallow]

Well, there’s not just a “not shit” button they can hit, presumably there’s a lot of stuff that goes into points values, rules interactions, minimum and maximum unit sizes, etc

[rocky shale]

Yeah, I'm not saying its easy, but I've run into a lot of people saying that agents never needs to be good because its a codex for souping

Which is kinda silly when they gave it rules for being its own army

[past sphinx]

Witchhunters kicked ass and was thr soup emporium

[soft willow]

They need a proper army rule and like one decent way to get lascannons.

[runic swallow]

Oh no, do they not have the lascannon rings anymore?

[soft willow]

Digital weapons are an enhancement now that does between 0-3 mortals when the character with it is selected to fight.

[tired cairn]

Wait, is it called a digital weapon because you wear it on your digits?

[mild glen]

Yes.

[tired cairn]

I both hate this and am impressed at how dumb that is

[tardy vault]

Up there with Space Marines being made by John Space

[soft willow]

Warhammer in a nutshell

[wild fog]

Inquisition Obi-wan Sherlock Closseau

[soft willow]

Land Raiders and Landspeeders are named for Arkam Land.

[thin ibex]

I just think that competition is not the final arbiter of nebulous "viability"

Viable for competitive? Ok, that's it's own thing

But viable at face value implies its not playable or winnable at any level of play

Which is not correct imo

[wild fog]

The discussion for competitive is murky and fraught anyway. There are so many variables at a local level

A low tier army can be devastating in a local store that skimps in terrain footprints, local players may skew xyz ways.

Unless you take that shit to games days or play in tts communities where people tend to basically netdeck, your mileage will vary

[thin ibex]

I'm pretty sure if like... ecllection and I had a match today and I played the SoS and they played agents today, they'd probably take me down

[wild fog]

My friend down in CA plays low tier and dominates people playing meta in local stores because in part because they don't know how to react to them

I also know of at least three stores, two in large cities and the vast majority of players are just bringing midcore to casual. You can roll up with low tier and do fine

[uneven ember]

I feel like the Gellar Fields are easier to take as a serious thing when nobody knows who Uri Gellar is

I think that the dumbest one, which barely gets a mention
Is that they aren't the Ultramarines because they're ultra-marines (even though they are)

And they aren't Ultramarines because they're blue (even though they are)

But of course it's because they're from Ultramar

[thin ibex]

I kinda miss ultramars low key thing for axes

Iirc the ol victrix guard were axemen no?

[thin ibex]

Late night salamanders theme list

[desert jay]

Excuse me, it's Amy Space

[ebon forge]

I love how in Space Marine 2 the Magos got censored by his binaric squawking

What kind of humor is that in the game ? Sarcastic?

[spice flicker]

It's a shame a dark apostle ND 10x chosen can't ride in a land raider

[jaunty dawn]

cant have shit in the eye of terror

[floral herald]

Not all of them were but the old honor guard had several axes of ultramar

[jaunty dawn]

i think technically only the wing faced guys are honour guard so

other guys are just um standard bearer and champion

4e honour guard kinda worked like wolf guard and could take over leading a squad which is pretty cool

[spice flicker]

I just want to transport my supreme cult leader and his chosen astartes bodyguards around in something other than a drill GW. Can't you work with me and let us have a 13 model transport?

[jaunty dawn]

the black templars are reluctant to share for some reason

[spice flicker]

Need to contract some alpha legionnaires to steal some I guess.

[sweet solar]

a modified cheaper overground termite with no drilling but better move speed would be increadibly old 40k

[solemn gull]

Man that kit fucked

Also the old tyrannic war veterans kit

[jaunty dawn]

this classic twv art always made me think he was holding the gaunt head like a hand puppet

oh but also I wanted to say; gsc sororitas with four armed pentient engines

[runic swallow]

…I should have realized that might have been where they got that name

[marsh haven]

Uri Geller?

[runic swallow]

“Arrr, I’m a mean ol’ tyranid, I’m gonna eat you all, arrrrg arrrg arrrg”
“Brother, are you… well? Are you in need of the apothecary… or perhaps the ministrations of a chaplain?”

[runic swallow]

Oh, he was a stage magician

[mental birch]

Alakazam

(I'm only kinda joking, Alakazam was a reference to him,)

(He's a fake psychic)

[spice flicker]

Regarding that Crusade thing I have been pondering, I think I will either switch fully to CSM or do that trial period for the agents before switching. Now I just have to decide to CSM do I want to go standard with vehicles, daemon engines, and astartes or just focus on cults/traitor guards with a bit of theme based on the Brotherhood of Nod from Command and Conquer. Employ decimaters and war dogs to emulate the Avatars from C&C 3 Tiberium Wars

[thin ibex]

i thought you mentioned the agents crusade rules were fun

id figure stick with agents

[spice flicker]

The rules are interesting...yet the army grows evermore as a headache.

[tranquil ivy]

Flamer gang's gonna pull up in style

[past sphinx]

How did gw manage to make every head in the raptor/warp talon kit just the worst

Its impressive

[jaunty dawn]

it's a bad kit

[floral herald]

I think parts of it make pretty good Chosen kitbashes

But that’s the best thing I can say

[unreal cosmos]

It's the kit that made me want to get CSM so to each their own lol.

[floral herald]

I just really liked the older ones with the arched cowls

But it was also the first of the “new aesthetic” for CSM which I love

I just like the Chosen kit the most for it haha

[jaunty dawn]

yeah new chaos are awesome

so

raptors crashed into the ground so modern chaos could run ;P

I don't think I'd have as much a problem with the current raptors if the old ones weren't peak yeah

and if warp talons were as cool as 'daemonkin teleporting lightning claw jump infantry' should be

[thin ibex]

i thought warp talons were generally quite strong on the table

with high volume twin linked attacks

[jaunty dawn]

were talking models

[thin ibex]

ahhh ok

gotcha

are the warp talons models uncool?

[jaunty dawn]

I think so anyway

cause they're kinda just raptors that I'm already not a fan of with weird wings added

I also personally don't like how varied the power claws are? like I get that it's chaos but it feels like I'd rather have the couple best styles throughout the unit rather than one of each

probably the finger claws one

with four fingers xP

[solemn gull]

The finger claw ones are very cool looking but my favourite are probably the new templar ones that still allow for finger movement

[pine matrix]

Actually really love these navy breacher rules, big fan of having your team split into duos

[floral herald]

Yeah the Breachers rule for cool mechanics

Playing R6S all game

[jaunty dawn]

Breach and Clear is a really fun rule yeah

I liked using it to do an endurant/gunner pair moving up together

can't tell if this is just a thing they can do or an equipment

I like the little reminder text on heavy

and keywording light cover ignore

or wait I guess it could be not reminder text on heavy but making it so like

the suspensor rule of (you can dash but still can't move more than 6") is just becoming a heavy variant rule

kasrkin just throwing +1 grenade per turn, wild

tactical grenade but still

yeah looking through it looks like reversed out/no background is equipment, grey is strategic ploy, black is tactical ploy

so you can use an equipment slot to detach your guardsman sergeant from the obligatory vox dude

[spice flicker]

Breachers are fun and cool...until you realize only a rhino can transport them and they can't ride in chimeras.

[jaunty dawn]

what's a transport ;P

[solemn gull]

Counter point: these guys would totally ram through a wall in a rhino

[jaunty dawn]

if it wasn't for the border between heresy and 40k they'd just fly around in arvus lighters

[past sphinx]

Arvus would be perfect for em

[soft willow]

Agents just deep strike them though.

Set up within 9 and just unload with the shotguns.

[jaunty dawn]

use the baby drop pods from soul shackle

[rocky shale]

The most fun thing with agents is definitely having 3 units of infantry in deep strike and 4 more infiltrating

[spice flicker]

Technically in crusade you can deep strike up to 4 non grey knight Terminators and may or may not be able to redeploy the infiltrators all as well. The fleet has a pair of enhancement that let's you infiltrate and deep strike 3 squads, having a 2nd rogue trader let's you infiltrate a squad, and in the ordo xenos Detachment there is an Enhancement that let's a watch master deepstrike with some deatwatch. The rogue trader allows you to redeploy d3 battleline units and the ordo hereticus has an Enhancement that let's you redeploy 3 units as well.

So deep strike 3 breacher teams, and a deathwatch squad alongside any Terminators you take. Infiltrate a trio of deathwatch squads and a rogue trader guided breacher team, and use the RT's ability and the Ordo hereticus Enhancement to rearrange your units on the board to safety or to feint and screw your opponent regarding early scoring.

Rather unfortunate they have next to no anti-armor or anti-fly. Also it's a shame they only have a 30% win rate at the moment.

[rocky shale]

Yeah, crusade let's you get wacky

[spice flicker]

You have deployment shenanigans but not much else

[soft willow]

You need allied Knights for damage, otherwise it's hoping to get lucky on Meltas.

Deployment shenanigans and good OC, but that's about all you get.

[spice flicker]

For the crusade force I'm working with I should have 2 helverin and a warglaive by 1250 points.

Shame Inquisitor rhinos can't regen like the others

Is crusade still limited to 3 Enhancements or no?

[jaunty dawn]

not limited to 3

but its instead of a rank up benefit and gets more expensive the more you have

[pulsar cairn]

hi penny

[jaunty dawn]

(capping at 3rp when you have 2+)

hi skully!

[spice flicker]

Right now at 750 pts I got the deep strike and infiltrate enhaancements but can only do 2 of each.

[remote wharf]

I'd like to say, I like primaris, but oh my god there weapons are so sauceless. Boring, tacticool bricks!

[past sphinx]

the primaris plasma pistol is a travesty

no drip

no heat

no swag

the volkite pistol is pretty good but its scraping by on "better than the plasma"

[past sphinx]

posessed are some big bois\

[tranquil ivy]

Infernus marines done

To do: Intercessors, Aggressors, Impulsor, infiltrators

[ebon forge]

New Kill Team will have solo and co-op missions (the enemy will have pre-determined actions, maybe like Kingdom death monster?)

Time to write a fanfic on how the hell a bunch of Orks and Tyrannis are cooperating with each other

(sis loves Tyrannis, I love Orks)

[marsh haven]

TIL that Corvus Corax has essentially become a Greater Daemon of Himself

[unreal cosmos]

a lot of that is fanon from what I understand

[marsh haven]

Well specifically he’s shed his fleshy form and become a pure warp entity. Which is somewhat different from a Daemon Prince but still close enough to use it as an analogy

[thin ibex]

Solo kill team missions?

That's fucking rad

[upper canopy]

Surprised you only learned this today, it's one of those things people repeat ad nauseum

[marsh haven]

I drop in and out of warhammer

Makes me wonder what other godpowers the surviving loyalist primarchs might be unlocking

Lion basically has a pocket dimension

Which honestly kinda makes then Traitor Primarchs even bigger losers by comparison

If they all had a shot demigod-hood and the Daemon Primarchs away traded away their genuine shot at it in exchange for a bootleg version

Angron excepted as Angron didn’t really choose

[upper canopy]

None of them really chose except Lorgar

[marsh haven]

Fulgrim maybe

[upper canopy]

Nope

Evil sword

[marsh haven]

His fall was long and convoluted and involved possession but his choice at the end was his own

[past sphinx]

his gay ass broke that mirror

thus granting 70000 years of bad luck

and perhaps even longer of plot irrelevance

[marsh haven]

Setting aside the ambiguous nature of chaos corruption (which Horus implies is on some level voluntary when it comes to Primarchs), all of them save Angron were lucid when they crossed the threshold from human to daemon

[bold halo]

man I knew teenage me was drawn to the raven guard for a reason, hell yeah corvus

I apparently missed some sick lore while I was out of the loop

[past sphinx]

you got fucked up mutant shock troops from a long nirvana binge

raven guard are dope

[bold halo]

I wonder if I could pull off a paint job of like, the iridescence raven feathers actually have

[pastel rampart]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61ToVLzxhIL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg

Corvus is basically this meme.

Except it's not Dracula but Lorgar.

[floral herald]

Yeah Corax was one of the first primarchs who wasn’t a psyker who got mentioned to have weird supernatural powers

And he’s basically been in the EoT for so long that he’s mutated/blossomed/??? Into some kind of shadowy bird(s) monster

[bold halo]

bird shaped lightning bolt chasing after daemon primarchs

[floral herald]

There might be lacquers or washes which can do that

[pastel rampart]

Each of the Primarchs have at least a little bit of warpstuff in them and I think Corvus just tapped further into it than most.

[marsh haven]

Yeah he spent a lot of time marinating in The Eye of Terror cultivating it

[pastel rampart]

Pure will and desire to murder Lorgar has turned him into Hellsing Alucard.

[bold halo]

I was more gonna go a NMM-like approach to it but thinking about it, I know there's powders that give the effect I'd be after

applying and sealing them will be an adventure but if I can pull it off, man

[floral herald]

I think that’d work but lordy that’s work intensive

[marsh haven]

Lion otoh, has some sort of weird connection to a dreamworld pocket dimension

[past sphinx]

they make iridescent medium

solid stuff

[floral herald]

I’m relatively confident that that’s somewhere in the Webway

[paper bluff]

neat

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, you could just do iridescent paint. Probably with an airbrush if you're doing lots of models.

[bold halo]

luckily I gave up on painting an entire army years ago so I can just try on a mini or two lol

[floral herald]

Since he’s been marinating in a piece of Webway construction equipment for like 10,000 years

[marsh haven]

Its interesting that Guilliman, who spent the last ten millennia in stasis, does not have any particularly unique warp traits outside of being a primarch

[marsh haven]

I think it has something to do with Caliban

[upper canopy]

The Lion drank from the Grail and is blessed by the Lady

[pastel rampart]

Guilliman's warp trait is "knows Excel."

[upper canopy]

Duh

[floral herald]

That’s what I mean - Caliban was a piece of Webway construction equipment

A run down planet sized “dimensional drill” so to speak for making new connections or something

[marsh haven]

Either way he’s touched by it and those little robed guys

[upper canopy]

Watchers in the Dark

[marsh haven]

Yeah the little robed guys

Who are either xenos, warp entities, or both

[pastel rampart]

They're skaven.

[floral herald]

They’ve become so polite

[bold halo]

they're just little guys

[marsh haven]

Mirror Caliban seems more “flexible” than the Webway proper

It doesn’t seem to have discrete gates

[floral herald]

Yeah I think it’s similar to Wyrmwood itself, which can drill to specific locations

[marsh haven]

The fact that it also seems influenced by Lion’s thoughts is also different

And it has that psychic echo of the emperor

[floral herald]

Yeah the fisher king stuff is weird

[marsh haven]

It might be like, a combination of the Ouroboros’ power and the Lion’s own dreamscape

Lion was always one of the odder primarchs, psychologically speaking

He was better at masking than Dorn but iirc he had a lot of trouble relating to neurotypical mindsets

A lot of fan theory is that he was the primarch meant to most closely model the emperor in terms of his personality, but it might actually have been Caliban’s influence

[floral herald]

There’s an interesting bit in son of the forest where he talks about primarch psychology some

And how Lion finds it real easy to slip into a mono-focused dueling/combat mindset where that’s just all he thinks about

Which he contrasts to Guilliman who he thinks is literally incapable of thinking about 1 things at once

[marsh haven]

Yeah its hard to tell if this is purely by design or influenced by the fact that his earliest memory is running from daemons/mutants

[floral herald]

It’s probably not purely by design but the primarchs were made for certain roles

[marsh haven]

Yeah. But like a lot of fanon for Lion was that he was the most “unaltered” relative to the Emperor’s original stock

Which is presumably why he was so unempathic, merciless, and proud

But curiously he also lacked the Emperor’s manipulative charisma and scientific bent

[floral herald]

I think you can glean a lot on how the Emperor saw Lion from how he used the 1st before recontact - as an extremely elite formation of horrible shit killers

With Lion as basically the Emperor’s best shooter who doesn’t ask questions

[marsh haven]

Yeah but that’s also Russ

[floral herald]

That’s a common thread - nearly all the primarchs are similar to another one

They sort of come in pairs

[bold halo]

dorn and perturabo building increasingly fortified sand castles at the beach at each other

[floral herald]

Some of them are sort of obvious like Lion and Russ or Dorn and Perterabo and some are pretty vague

[marsh haven]

Interestingly Lion’s ten thousand year coma appears to have made him more empathic

[pastel rampart]

They're similar in role but execute things very differently.

The Lion is more like...wetwork, I guess, where it's get in, do the killin', and get out.

[floral herald]

I think some other pairs could be like Corax and Curze, or hot take, Angron and Lorgar

[pastel rampart]

Russ will cover the walls in blood and viscera as a kind of example.

[marsh haven]

Lion seems to have been cultivated for inhuman professionalism

If that’s what he was indeed cultivated for

[thin ibex]

isnt it a fan theory that the heresy was actually part of the plan, but not how it actually played out?

[floral herald]

There's a fan theory for pretty much everything

[past sphinx]

its directly stated by malcador

[thin ibex]

like big E was prepping the primarchs to face off against each other as a sort of disposal strategy or something, like the thunder warriiors

[past sphinx]

though pretty much confirmed a lie to comfort a dying man

[marsh haven]

Not sure but like the only people Big E actually seems to have registered as people were fellow Perpetuals

Erda, Malcador, and Ollianus

[past sphinx]

but i stand by "something needing to be done about the legions" in some eventual victory

two primarchs just straight up erased from history

why not the rest?

[marsh haven]

Because those are the only people who can actually get him to change his mind or take non-ruthless actions

[past sphinx]

why not an empire built on pure human will, no genemonsters or demigods

[marsh haven]

I suspect there’s a reason why Russ boasts about being The Emperor’s Executioner

Possibly two

[past sphinx]

nah russ is just being an ass

11 probably isnt even dead

[marsh haven]

He was doing that before Emperor sent him to Prospero

[thin ibex]

it was heavily implied but not confirmed that he was involved in the redacted legions

[past sphinx]

Dark angels also claim the title and have nothing leaning on the lost legions

[marsh haven]

I think Russ killed at least one primarch yeah

My headcanon is that the other lost primarch was never found

[past sphinx]

theres a cell under the palace labeled "11"

[marsh haven]

They either died or peaced out to the extragalatic void, which is frankly the only real winning strategy in 40k

[floral herald]

Common place to find more than 10 rooms :p

(Yeah it’s probably more significant than that)

[past sphinx]

theres also the Angel down there and technically they count

real no not that one the other angel hours

hey what if we built a demon from super science and just kinda fucked around with it

the conquest of terra was so bad they built some BE NOT AFRAID shit in an old gas station out of scrap and 2 stroke engines and had to seal it in a box because it worked to well

really dont make em like they used to

[thin ibex]

personally i think the wolves have got the greater claim to being the emperors executioners

you see more evidence for it in the heresy novels iirc

[past sphinx]

from the lions novel (so a touch unbalanced perhaps)

The Wolf King boasted to all that he was his father's executioner. He was a deterrent, a hound to snarl from behind a sealed gate, never to be unleashed. What the Lion was to his father did not speak its name so brazenly. For where Russ was a warning, the Lion was a solution. The final solution. He was the Emperor’s exterminator.

[thin ibex]

I think the wolves got to be the emperors executioners because they're loyalty was never in question; the emperors hounds indeed; moreso than being more lethal than other legions

[solemn gull]

Also space wolves can’t fall to chaos right? They turn into werewolves when exposed.

[upper canopy]

They can but it's nothing genetic, it's because writers aren't allowed to have them to do anything wrong

[paper bluff]

smh the chaos wolflord that followed khrone so easily forgotten

[paper bluff]

the wolves are the "make it loud, kill them and show them" the dark angels are "I want them dead and forgotten, their ashes scattered to the winds, and may nothing.... NOTHING of them remain"

destroyed vs. erased

[thin ibex]

‘I could leave Fenris now,’ Russ had once told his father. ‘The planet is too wild for life – it will never support the armies you deserve.’
Leave Fenris. Unimaginable to think that he had ever said that. At the time of that exchange, decades ago, the Fenrisians of the VI Legion were being brutally moulded into the death world’s image. They had started to build the Fang, hollowing out the Great Mountain with earth-gougers the size of Warmonger Titans. The Emperor had clearly expected the Wolves to be drawn from the world of ice and fire, and that, whether by chance or design, their uniquely violent home would remain the proving crucible of the Legion.

And so the pretence continued. Russ became more like the Fenrisians than they were themselves. He guzzled mjod with the baresarks, and wrestled blackmanes to the bloody snow, and roared out scorn and mirth across the sea of stars. He let the gothi adorn his armour and engrave his swords. He kept out of the counsels of Guilliman and the Lion, and ignored every emissary from Lorgar. He did just what the Allfather had told him – he became the weapon of last resort, the most faithful, the prosecutor of dirty wars.

There was no resentment when Fulgrim’s purple-and-gold Legion took the Palatine Aquila, nor when Vulkan was taken aside for so long into secret confidence, nor, most of all, when Horus was made Warmaster and the arguments over who was the truly chos en son became academic. Russ knew, right down in his gut, that the Wolves had been made the way they were for a reason, that none other could perform their blood-soaked function. In the final analysis, were the Imperium to falter, it would be his foot pressed against the neck of any usurper, watched over by the benign and inscrutable gaze of his genefather, the author and definer of all his misery and his uncertainty, all his bliss and all his glory.

But now that sham was over. He had truly become what he had once only pretended to be. He felt the world-soul pulse under his skin, and no scrubbing would remove the stain of it. The runes were no longer just marks, to be tolerated as the suspicions of a backward people. They spoke to him, like conspiratorial jailers gloating over the turning of a prisoner to the cause. In defeat, he at last understood why the Emperor had never let him leave Fenris behind.

"It has claimed me. It has clawed me back".

from Wolf King

[finite compass]

They can individually fall to chaos

IIRC there are some former-Space Wolf Red Corsairs

And whatever actually happened to the Wolf Brothers

Though the only concrete on them is they had massive genetic instability it was such a fiasco that it stopped them from using the Space Wolves for any more successor chapters, anda bunch of them went renegade rather than be liquidated by the Inquisition

[paper bluff]

I murdered thousands for the Emperor and he gave me nothing except his damning silence. Now his lapdogs yap for every life I take, while the gods promise me the galaxy.
Svane Vulfbad

[finite compass]

There's also these guys, who date back to the Heresy

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Skyrar's_Dark_Wolves

[desert jay]

I think in this case his legion would still be around awaiting his discovery

[pastel rampart]

If said primarch was never found then their legion would've been incorporated into other existing legions.

Which did notably happen with the Ultramarines at one point prior to the heresy.

[past sphinx]

ah qouting the old magics, i was there when they where written

[thin ibex]

The reason sw had pretty much no successor chapters, besides telling the codex to go fuck itself, was because every successor chapter would fall victim to the canis helix and/or go renegade, then chaos

[past sphinx]

Dogs need to be properly socialize after all

[junior robin]

finally, the emperor's carpenters primaris lieutenant

[raw vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/721796462404435968/1283068744574177340/those-things-are-a-pain-v0-se4ei3eh1wnd1.png?ex=66e1a662&is=66e054e2&hm=20da4f0dce1721f4cc62b5f07c21e36fb0e6dfebe253eefbdb28e5a50ab0f126&

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/10/kill-teams-of-the-aeldari-outwit-outmaneuver-and-overwhelm/

Elves!

[jaunty dawn]

I hope we get a ranger kill team at some point

[thin ibex]

honestly ranger kill team makes so much sense its a little surprising we havent

[floral herald]

Yeah they’d be a cool choice

[jaunty dawn]

probably my favourite flavour of eldar

unless they went wild and brought out exodites anyway

[floral herald]

There’s been some very left field KTs

Mandrakes and Beastmen for me

[cosmic tulip]

Best faction (:

[paper bluff]

exodite kill team would be such a nard kick to people that have been begging for an exodite faction

I hope it happens

[jaunty dawn]

I mean vet guard kill team came out and now theres gonna be entire plastic dkok range so

unless like there's a tendency for exodite fans to enjoy being kicked in the nards, in which case my bad, carry on

[cosmic tulip]

It’s not impossible that the dinosaurs could be like

Moved off world

[tired cairn]

It is so weird for an Aeldari faction rule to just be called "rifles"

[jaunty dawn]

yknow rifles

rifle rule

rule for rifles

[pulsar cairn]

so

unless ur a human

killing a space marine isnt all that difficult is it?

at least for most xenos

[solemn gull]

No

[tired cairn]

A guardsman with a plasma gun has a pretty easy time killing a space marine (said guardsman might also die though)