Warhammer and Such

[balmy wave]

On the 40K side, daemon Primarchs are examples of daemon princes placed above even the greatest greater daemons

[jaunty dawn]

I think a lot of daemon princes are probably like

extremely favoured immediately before and after ascension, before being tossed aside for whatever new mortal plaything shows up

[balmy wave]

In fantasy, beings like Valkia the Bloody or Azazel are daemon princes held in the same - or higher - regard as the greatest Exalted ones

[balmy wave]

40K absolutely

Fantasy/AoS, the gods are less fickle but also more evil

So it takes more to be a daemon prince but you're guaranteed go remain favoured until the point you disobey especially too much

In 40K, mass sacrifices and the backstabbing of a trusted lieutenant is generally what it takes for a renowned CSM to ascend, and that's with several millennia of horrors behind them during which they did... fuck-all I guess?

Or nothing of note

I am biased towards AoS and Fantasy, of course

In that setting it takes a lifetime of dedication to the cause of your god or of Chaos undivided to even become a chaos chosen, let alone ascend to princehood

Unless you're prophecied, or commit an especially evil act

Archaon and Azazel, for example

[past sphinx]

40k has some pretty impressive things done to get daemonhood

Storm of iron had like 1/3 of space marine geneseed captured by iron warriors for the warsmith to ascend

[balmy wave]

But how much of that was his own deeds?

[tranquil ivy]

YO WHAT SIEGE WEAPONS DO I THROW ON MY LEVIATHAN DREADNOUGHT

Im proxying it as a Brutalis

[balmy wave]

Claws

Not the grinders

[tranquil ivy]

Aight

Was asking because I feel like the drills would look lit asf

[balmy wave]

The chainfists look great don't get me wrong

But it fits more for a brutalis

Cos one of their options is claws

[tranquil ivy]

Eh?

Oh right

Yea

Fair nuff

[tranquil ivy]

I mean to be fair my chapter also has a pet Tyranid, lmao

[balmy wave]

Unless you're not going to tournaments

[tranquil ivy]

I am not

[balmy wave]

If you're just playing casually do whatever

[tranquil ivy]

I dont particularly care for competitive 40k

[balmy wave]

I guess, sort of, how?

Is it disconnected from the hive mind?

Do they keep it in a pen and basically torture it?

[floral herald]

Magnetic ones :p

[tranquil ivy]

I only have the parts for one set of weapons

[balmy wave]

Cos a lone tyranid in the middle of nowhere is kinda a beacon for the Hive Mind

That's how Genestealer Cult planets get nommed by nids

[floral herald]

Ah fair

[jaunty dawn]

I mean not really

[tranquil ivy]

Librarian tore the Neurogaunt from the hivemind using psyker shenanigans

And since it sorta had free will now the neurogaunt decided to stick with them

[jaunty dawn]

that's why genestealer cults have to get so big

[floral herald]

Magnetizing dreads is just fun and pretty easy

[paper bluff]

30 years of no model update. Gw's perfect creation

[rocky shale]

The falcon chassis grav tanks are GWs perfect creation because they're also old as shit but are plastic and still look good

[jaunty dawn]

yeah same with devilfish

[floral herald]

The War Walker and Wraithlord are in a similar boat

[tranquil ivy]

Now the reason my marines didnt KILL the Neurogaunt was because they originated from the Horus Heresy, and only just emerged from a warp storm into the 41st millennia. They are yet to realize how brutal the Tyranids are.

[balmy wave]

Iirc any examples of nids separated from the Hive Mind - usually by mass quantities of Blackstone or Blanks - just go feral and attack everything in reach

Also, most psykers that try interfering with the hive mind explode or go fully insane

[tranquil ivy]

So they saw this little human-sized "daemon" and, after it didnt immediately try to kill them, they liked him

They even named him 'Brother Kindle'

[jaunty dawn]

neurogaunts have a symbiotic brain bug

[tranquil ivy]

Yea im aware

[jaunty dawn]

so it's not that weird that it's more capable on it's own

[tranquil ivy]

Here he is

[jaunty dawn]

compared to other nids

[tranquil ivy]

Little brother Kindle

[tranquil ivy]

I presumed it'd be smarter and less primal than, lets say, a Carnifex

[jaunty dawn]

ye

[balmy wave]

Still primal don't get me wrong

[tranquil ivy]

And tyranids have been separated before (Old One Eye)

Yea ofc

[jaunty dawn]

and by brain bug it's like, literally more brain than bug haha

[tranquil ivy]

Kindle is like a slightly smarter dog

In fact, Kindle is the reason this Leviathan Dreadnought still lives.

Kindle's innate psyker abilities ease the burden of the dreadnought

That and the fact they sorta skipped through time thanks to being trapped in the warp

[jaunty dawn]

for the psychic seperation thing if Matt Ward can make his specialest wizard boy Read The Hive Mind it's fine to just have one nid be rent from the hive mind haha

[tranquil ivy]

You wanna know the funniest part?

[jaunty dawn]

for a short period that was essentially the lore for Squigs

[balmy wave]

I think the most likely to be intelligent alone is a Zoanthrope?

Whichever the floaty bois are

Maybe a maleceptor

Are you gonna stick kindle on the leviathan's base then?

[tranquil ivy]

My homebrew chapter is a Salamander successor

[tranquil ivy]

Probably not.

I want him on a centerpiece

Someone higher up

[jaunty dawn]

anything synapse is gonna be like human level intelligence or more even without a network really

(but they'd also pretty quickly start establishing a network like on anphelion)

[tranquil ivy]

This means that, since my Iron Talons (or Steel Talons, havent decided) are friendly towards humans, you could literally just be an imperial guardsmen and get jumped on by a friendly Neurogaunt

[junior robin]

so looks like I will spend the rest of the year anxiously thinking about what "special chaos treats" could mean

[jaunty dawn]

I'm suprised there's no more 40k for the rest of the year

but the release schedule is pretty packed and there's kt24

[floral herald]

I’m hoping for new daemons

[tranquil ivy]

Some say that, when you are quiet enough, you can hear Kindle conversing with the leviathan in his chambers.

[balmy wave]

I do love custom chapters

[junior robin]

my hopes are emperors children or word bearers

[balmy wave]

Some of them are incredibly inspired, others are just clearly super grounded in the lore

Custom SM chapters more than custom CSM warbands or IG regiments, but they're all often pretty cool

Here's my chapter, basic but I'm happy with them
https://pastebin.com/aFgazcCt

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/29/walking-is-for-heretics-tempestus-aquilons-drop-right-into-combat/

Aquilon article

These guys might be really vanilla in their equipment but they still seem like a really weird team

Which is nice

[jaunty dawn]

ohh

the markers aren't consumed when they drop?

uh

hm.

ooh

trooper having a niche is cool

[tranquil ivy]

This is a Brutalis

I also bought some 90mm bases too so it can ACTUALLY be fielded correctly

[jaunty dawn]

so it's... Two Markers, Two Drop Groups, groups drop together? each group can drop either marker, but round 2 there's only one marker and round 3 there's none so...either no deployments or deploy in your deployment zone?

[paper bluff]

I keep on seeing that make and thinking about my custodes because these bitches also be aquilons

[tranquil ivy]

I think they're at a good height

[paper bluff]

And I like my aquilon terminators even if they're underwhelming

[unreal cosmos]

Honestly you could do a lot worse for a mascot bioform

Neurogaunts have high Lil Guy energy

[jaunty dawn]

just babies

[tranquil ivy]

Kindle says hello

Also

If you look closely you'll notice Kindle has a little leather pouch

[unreal cosmos]

Oh that's a great pose

[jaunty dawn]

what's in the pouch!

[tranquil ivy]

Here's a better look at it!

[tranquil ivy]

Food.

Freshly cooked from the Talons' flamers

You know how birds will sometimes clean their feathers by sticking their head under their wing?

Imagine that but with a Neurogaunt trying to open the pouch on it's side

There's also some ammo in there in case a brother needs it

Name something more terrifying than a 30k era dreadnought charging down your whole squad as a little Neurogaunt hops around that fucker's chassis screaming at you.

[past sphinx]

The gods do not ascribe to great man theory

[floral herald]

Yeah was not expecting that part

Also them moving in strat phase is interesting

[jaunty dawn]

the fact the mechanic is seemingly unaltered for gallowdark is pretty funny

like makes some sense, there's no mechanical reason not to

[thin ibex]

im still wondering if Bjorn is gonna get a redemptor chassis upgrade

apparently the blood angels dread got quietly updated to be the brutalis

but none of the dread characters have been changed yet

[jaunty dawn]

mega bjorn would be so fun

[thin ibex]

i agree

a redemptor chassis + true claw instead of the fist would be cool

though also i would love for him to keep the helfrost as an option

i could see them phasing it out

[jaunty dawn]

I kinda imagine if they go for just one weapon option it'll be the helfrost cannon

[tranquil ivy]

It makes sense for Bjorn to be in a venerable

Since he's over 10,000 years old

The Redemptor didnt exist

If they put him in a redemptor i'll be annoyed, lmao

[jaunty dawn]

the coffin can be moved around

the rest of the chassis is just robot parts

[thin ibex]

yeah

[tired cairn]

I guess "at the end of long vertical pipes" is how they are going to flavor the In to the Dark reason for this

[tranquil ivy]

Yeah ofc. I saw that one with Brother Ignis

But why would the space wolves put Bjorn in a chassis which would kill him 10x faster

[tired cairn]

Isn't a redemptor dread extra bad for the person inside?

Or did I hallucinate that

[jaunty dawn]

technically

but lore is flexible

and primaris integration was kinda a mess

[thin ibex]

it is

[paper bluff]

It takes a special will to be in a contemptor for a long time

There are 2 we know of

[tired cairn]

Oh, well any named character is going to have that will lol

[thin ibex]

i do also think that there is a general move towards just replacing the old dread with the newer set, so hanging on to the casteferrum venerable for forever is something i dont see them doing tbh

[jaunty dawn]

and like bjorn is already beating the odds as far as a castaferrum coffin goes anyway

[paper bluff]

Rylanor, The ancient of rights and the word bearers one

[jaunty dawn]

not many 10,000 year old dreads

[thin ibex]

and frankly the redemptor is a bigger, meaner, and cleaner model as i understand it, and more imminently relevant for gameplay

redemptor/related chassis i mean

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[thin ibex]

i would rather bjorn be put in a redemptor than be made irrelevant and obsolete

[jaunty dawn]

an update would be cool and we're just stuck with messy lore abt it lol

[tired cairn]

I do like how they made all olddreads de facto venerable dreadnaught though

[paper bluff]

Contemptor that's the one I was thinkingof

[thin ibex]

also bjorn with the onslought would be sick

i mispelled that

but the gatling gun

i would have a wish for a updated primaris helfrost gun, but like i mentioned, i doubt they would

i think they have no interest in having more helfrost guns going forward

it only shows up on the space wolf flying bricks, venerable dreds, and the iron priest

[jaunty dawn]

ossible

like how grav guns are pretty rare

again

[paper bluff]

With how tech is in 40k, I'm pretty sure whatever gunk makes up Björn can't be taken out of that dreadnought. Hell that dreadnought might have been new when he gor put in it! That dread has only ever had one occupant

[jaunty dawn]

god pre primaris space marine updates were so stretched lmao

"uhh grav guns for everyone now"

"maybe everyone gets their own special jet helicopter"

"space marines in power armour in power armour"

"no one like our jet helicopter, let's just do the most popular fan fix for it"

[thin ibex]

I don't know if it'd be weirder to keep Bjorn as one of the only casteferrum Dreads and just quietly make his whole profile stronger

And make his model conspicuously bigger

So it fits with the current dread scaling

Side note, it's a bit interesting that wraithlords, which often had better stats than a dread, are now not really on par with the redemptors

I don't think venerables get taken in comp for wolves these days, but then again neither do the long boats

[pulsar cairn]

do you think it's easier to do surgery on a space marine since they are so big?

for an admech that is

[solemn gull]

I don’t think that’s comparable

And probably no

[hard whale]

no, getting through their thick skin without completely destroying everything underneath and also your tools would be really tricky

[pulsar cairn]

oh

does that mean they are probably fucking dead if they need surgery?

[jaunty dawn]

no you just have to get really good at surgery to be an apothecary

[hard whale]

yeah, the apothecaries have the right tools and know-how

[pulsar cairn]

right

forgot about them

[solemn gull]

Also their rib cage is solid bone

So you would need to saw out a square then remove the bone square from the hole

[upper bluff]

lmao, space marine surgery has more in common with carpentry than surgery probably

[thin ibex]

Honestly I think space marine surgery is fucking brutal

Yeah

Like you need hammers, saws, chisels, etc

[pulsar cairn]

[past sphinx]

ever see that one handed surgery game?

like that but with two hands

surgeon simulator!

god i feel old

[upper bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/surgeonsimulator-gif-18455752

oh that's the vr one

you get it

[tepid stratus]

I find it funny how Iridian is the most subtly queer coded character possible: "goth enbie that talks philosophy with a death god" is a fucking vibe more than one non binary friend of mine aspires too

[jaunty dawn]

haha yeah

even the name is pretty like

quote unquote stereotypical

[verbal ermine]

wait who's Iridian? 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

new stormcast character

named Lord Vigilant

[unreal cosmos]

The first mercy killer

Eidetic memory with all the pros and cons

[jaunty dawn]

referred to only with they/them pronouns

[verbal ermine]

huh

[jaunty dawn]

and has a unique chest design

[verbal ermine]

ik that's supposed to be a mammoth or some random alien skull

but

[jaunty dawn]

no it's a skull with a beard

beard bones

[verbal ermine]

oh

I thought it was this

[jaunty dawn]

LMAO

IT IS

[unreal cosmos]

People wonder why AoS looks better than 40k, meanwhile they just rolled out a nonbinary executioner on a giant griffon while if you so much as put a bow and eyelashes on a Space Marine you get car bombed.

They tried making the marines taller and people are still sharpening knives about it

[solemn gull]

I think that’s correlation

[floral herald]

I appreciate that AoS’s position as “the woke GW game” means that the less pleasant elements of the fandom keep to just talking about how they don’t like age of wokemar or whatever and mostly stay out of it

It’s a refreshing fandom to engage with

[solemn gull]

Agreed

[wild fog]

Watching a subset of the community melt down over the "retcons" to Custodes lore--a faction that basically didn't have lore until pretty recently was definitely a thing

[finite compass]

TBF, they should have just made them taller without the Primaris excuse.

"Marines are truescale now. Deal"

[wild fog]

Well tbf they kind of did that with chaos marines

[finite compass]

Not "Now you have SUPER space marines that instantly turn your old marines into the smaller, less impressive version of themselves.

[jaunty dawn]

part of the issue is primaris needed to be a lot bigger than truescale

[finite compass]

They did do that with Chaos Marines

[tepid stratus]

A retcon that one of the writers that wrote half their lore wanted to be in there from the start

[finite compass]

TBF, CSM needed it

When your terminators are smaller than your normal marines, something's gone wrong

[jaunty dawn]

like csm and horus heresy (and even earlier, thousand sons and deathwatch) are true scale

[finite compass]

...Or maybe I'm thinking back too far

These guys

[jaunty dawn]

primaris are ridiculous, super easy to paint scale

[wild fog]

Primaris are whatever. The newer text barely even makes the distinction anymore

[finite compass]

I think they're walking it back

"Everybody that was gonna cross the Rubicon Primaris already did, so everybody's just a Space Marine again"

[jaunty dawn]

and then when you make space marines that big you need mark x armour cause they look dumb otherwise

they have no details

(the horus heresy increased scale and redesigns have not passed without people being upset haha)

[wild fog]

Oh god can I please talk about how rank and file models have too many details now?

I want them simple so painting 60 of them is no longer a nightmare

[jaunty dawn]

chainrasps are great for that

[tepid stratus]

stares at 60 darkoath marauders

[jaunty dawn]

you just paint like three areas and you're done

[soft willow]

More detailed weirdos but also more simple stuff is good.

[jaunty dawn]

painted 30 like it was nothing at all

cultists???

I really want at least 60 for heresy but they're Wild

[wild fog]

Characters are fine, basic troops should be simple.

God help anyone who does genestealer cults

[jaunty dawn]

(also I don't want the same ten models over and over? why are they monopose)

[wild fog]

Same problem I have with new orks

[jaunty dawn]

which I don't mind with chainrasps cause like...easy-to-build makes them dirt cheap and again they're so nice to paint

[wild fog]

Yeah once again age of sigmar supreme

[solemn gull]

Honestly I didn’t notice that much of it compared to the gross thirsting people did

[tepid stratus]

I couldn't escape the bitching but maybe my recommendations are biased as a custodes player

I was more likely to have the stuff pop up in my feeds

[upper bluff]

No I get that, I preferred the Gold Dommy Mommy people over the Capital G Gamers, but both were kinda just like

[tepid stratus]

I just want to see what ADB can cook with the new lore

[solemn gull]

On one corner sexists, on the other fetishizers

I’ve mostly removed myself from the 40k fanbase I find AoS jokes actually funny

[unreal cosmos]

One factor was they couldn't afford to update the whole range at once

[jaunty dawn]

took them like

[unreal cosmos]

I think the Primaris rollout was flawed in many ways but I also think they were in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario

[jaunty dawn]

8 years

ongoing

[unreal cosmos]

I know someone who. Used to be in a Heresy discord, they seem to have vanished. But they were passionate in insisting 1) MkX armor doesn't even look like Space Marines and people only liked it because they didn't know better, and 2) truescale was basically a moral good and it was only laziness that prevented GW from making all the vehicles as huge as they would need to be to fit their passengers.

[finite compass]

MK IV best mark

I will not elaborate

[tepid stratus]

If we had true scale vehicles we'd be playing on 8ft tables

[south axle]

Love MkIV helmets

[finite compass]

The only armor that really unambiguously bugs me is the Phobos armor

[jaunty dawn]

honestly I'm not convinced on the vehicle front anymor

[solemn gull]

Beak

[jaunty dawn]

cause I've seen how small Literally True Scale irl vehicles are

and I think humans just don't get scale

[wild fog]

Yeah Phobos is a little "trying hard to be tacticool"

[jaunty dawn]

that and bases warp miniature height so much

[wild fog]

And ends up looking goofy

[jaunty dawn]

I think one thing about primaris is that like

[floral herald]

I think the Phobos work a lot better not as blue ultramarines

[finite compass]

Also like just going by modern APCs/IFVs

[jaunty dawn]

there are people who seriously go hard for tacticool marines and phoboa gives them that

[finite compass]

There is no such thing as leg room or personal space

[floral herald]

Even if you just make them codex approved camo ultramarines

[wild fog]

That maybe true

[paper bluff]

There is a whole ass neo-pronouns mechanicus character main focus character in a 40k titan book!

[finite compass]

You're going to be jammed in there pretty tight

[jaunty dawn]

and then there are people who go hard for gothic knight marines and the veteran stuff gives them that

and so on and so on

the range isn't designed for many people to like all of it

[floral herald]

I think UM Reivers look goofy asf but the models look pretty good in, for example, RG colors

[jaunty dawn]

cause it's bigger than one army

yeah raven guard and raptor fans go wild with phobos stuff

I mean look at how popular Astartes was and that's literally 100% in on tacticool marines

[finite compass]

My only issue with Chaos Marine stuff at the moment is the really baroque look really only hits perfectly for Black Legion and Word Bearers to me. Like it's not a 100% deal breaker by any means, I just feel the other 3 Undivided legions have their own typical aesthetic that doens't really mesh perfectly wiht the model design.

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah I think people just use tacticool to mean "I don't like it"

[finite compass]

I wouldnt' call Astartes tacticool

[unreal cosmos]

Because you like it

[finite compass]

No, because my definition of 'Tacticool' is 'modern military aesthetic turned up to ridiculous levels'

If the marines in Astartes were running around with chest rigs, radio aerials sticking out of thier backpacks, and three different scopes on their bolters, THEN I'd call it Tacticool. 😛

In which case, you can see why the Reivers get derided as such

[wild fog]

My big problem with chaos marines is that I have to do a model that's 80% gold trim again I will cry

[jaunty dawn]

the chest is like

literally just taken from deathwatch veterans

which are super popular

[finite compass]

I think a lot of the dislike is the sleekness

[wild fog]

Heldrakes are pain

[finite compass]

Classic Obliterators

Solid chunk of pewter, that

You could put an Obliterator in a sock and you'd have a deadly weapon

[solemn gull]

Not fussy on tacticool marines, makes them feel competent and reasonable

[finite compass]

So, Raptors then.

[desert jay]

Okay but there should be more radio aerials

[unreal cosmos]

Literally just a guy

[past sphinx]

the picatinny rails personally make my eye twitch

[finite compass]

(Especially in Darktide where they're non-functional without a mod. >_>)

[unreal cosmos]

Backing up a little I do actually understand your point, when I was first looking at Phobos I thought that making them look closer to actual world-power militaries had an uncomfortable vibe.

But also idk. A lot of the arguments seem to flip flop around, they're too smooth and generic, they're too cluttered with silly details, etc.

[finite compass]

Tangent

Space M16

[unreal cosmos]

I personally think that outside of scale, there's no greater difference between VII and X than between any other two marks.

[past sphinx]

Love me M40

[finite compass]

The base X looks fine

[past sphinx]

Made by Eugene autgun

Who was stoned to death

[finite compass]

I do think it's kind of a bummer they changed the helmet, just because it was pretty iconic at this point, but eh.

[jaunty dawn]

most of the 'new' stuff in mk x was just there in mk8

the helmet was certainly a choice

though I guess not having to paint grills is the idea? idk

[past sphinx]

leans hard into the knightly aestetic

[jaunty dawn]

I think the bummeriest part of it is now mk 7/8 are getting sunsetted without new kits to replace them

[past sphinx]

gives them a more heroic overall thing

[jaunty dawn]

unlike other stuff that will eventually get in heresy

[solemn gull]

Your necromunda pics are really cool

[bright dove]

Nice purple Orks

[past sphinx]

raptors in deep strike

[past sphinx]

thanks i put a lot of work into munda dudes

[jaunty dawn]

okay I wonder if like

aquilon drop groups are just

before game you decide your pregame deployment group, your turn 1 group, and your turn 2 group

or maybe even just group 1 and group 2 . and then one of the groups has to come in turn 1 and one group has to come in turn 2

but each model comes in seperately on their turn

[past sphinx]

the drummag laspistol sends me

love em

[jaunty dawn]

which actually makes sudden offensive really interesting game design cause it gives you an incentive to lead with your drop troops so they're the ones that get the buff

rather than just doing the AA thing of saving your consequential play to the end

[past sphinx]

great success

[jaunty dawn]

nice!!!

[floral herald]

I just noticed that Aquilons are a Fists team

Hardcore fellas

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah wow

[floral herald]

https://x.com/tankpotzoe/status/1829106167320088860?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Zoë, Commissions Open! (@TankpotZoe) on X

Reliably informed that Iridan is Non-Binary. Fuckin' nice.

Twitter · Aug 29, 2024, 10:37 AM

[jaunty dawn]

wizard gender

[soft willow]

Just fills in all the Census form blanks with the word Sigmar.

[pastel rampart]

AoS just kinda winnin' as of late.

(also first thought was "how could I turn that model all chaos-y")

[tardy vault]

God, ok, elf sculpts really are the worst

Getting the head on is such a pain

And even just priming is going to be hell let alone painting

Also, should I make a standard bearer and a musician?

[bold halo]

it's a pretty open pose, paint shouldn't be too bad

I guess it's kind of tight between the arms and head

[tardy vault]

It's the back I'm worried about

[past sphinx]

behold my terrible tree

[tardy vault]

Terrifying

Oh wait terrible as in bad

Nah, looks good

[unreal cosmos]

Hey, open question: I'm thinking about how I want to do my Infernus squad, which will be 9th Company reserves but like, relatively senior for reserve company standards, and I like the idea of somehow playing up the intimidation factor of their Battleshock powers.

I'm also thinking how the 9th Captain is the Master of Relics. So, do any fun kitbashes spring to mind that could represent them currying their boss's favor in a way that makes them scarier?

Maybe just something for the Sgt

[solemn gull]

Paint their metals bronze

Very ornate

[past sphinx]

big hat

[crisp lance]

https://fixupx.com/DanIsUncool/status/1829182389660315978

[marsh haven]

https://fixupx.com/crippled_giraff/status/1829115372722631165

[unreal cosmos]

The super glue set faster than I expected and now my Apothecary is facing away from her gun, but I think it adds a little character

distracted by a weird bug

[tardy vault]

Too worried about a patient to even care about the person she's shooting

[bright dove]

Nonchalant execution of her duty.

[unreal cosmos]

Apothecary Biologus, her ass is not saving lives

[pastel rampart]

some smoke coming out of the barrel would be a nice touch to really sell that idea of not-giving-a-fuck.

[unreal cosmos]

oh true! a bit beyond me rn tho

[past sphinx]

if i can sculpt a tree i believe u can do some muzzle smoke

[soft willow]

Try it on a test bit with some putty and see how it goes.

I bet you'll do better than you think!

[thin ibex]

Is it better to do sculpted smoke or just use some kind of fuzzy material and fix it in place?

[tardy vault]

My gut says just get some gray fuzz

[past sphinx]

cottonballs

[unreal cosmos]

I am honestly not looking to get ambitious with this

[solemn gull]

I mean your paintjob is so great it would be a diservice to your work to not add that last detail?

That’s the best white I’ve seen here

[unreal cosmos]

Aw thanks!

I do think I'll pass though, I feel like muzzle effects are kind of a step I'm not interested in for this project. It's kind of a higher UI setting y'know? Not looking for that kind of fidelity

How else to put this... I think each army project involves determining what level of abstraction you're aiming for, and those things are a discrete element that I don't consider part of the baseline package.

[jaunty dawn]

there's also a risk of it just looking gimmicky tbh

[jaunty dawn]

both are options!

[thin ibex]

watching a GK play on game, they seem rewarding to play but also kind of difficult

[soft willow]

Sort of, they can absolutely fuck up some armies and have a few very nasty tricks, but they're also not bringing many models.

[thin ibex]

the interplay of the pick ups/put down tactics make some fun decisions and cheeky tactical plays

oh those of yall who play more regularly, have any you ever seen some cool turnarounds with secret objectives?

[soft willow]

It's rare, but it's more reasonable to attempt as opposed to Gambits.

[pastel rampart]

Nah I get it, whenever I do a crew/warband/army/whatever I decide early on what I'm going to include and not include. Color scheme, how much customization, fancy effects, etc.

Smaller projects or specific centerpiece models I'll put in more effort but if like...I was doing an orc army? Yeah nah I'm optimizing the shit out of that.

[floral herald]

https://x.com/legs_pizza/status/1829541027251978728?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ
This channel is exempted but man do I feel this reading the questions on /r/40klore

Nephrite Heart (@legs_pizza) on X

it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a warhammer fan to read a primary source

Twitter · Aug 30, 2024, 3:25 PM

[cosmic tulip]

Oh god yes

[upper canopy]

Sent this to Oculus and he said "God this is so true"

[jaunty dawn]

gamer edition...

[pastel rampart]

Thank fucking god.

[jaunty dawn]

also no points in the book. idk if aos 3 did that already

[desert jay]

Prolly realized how useless everyone treated points in the 40k books

[soft willow]

Living digital rules for all GW games when?

[jaunty dawn]

that seems to be the direction kt24 is going? maybe

they're not very transparent about these things lol

[soft willow]

Right? Pretty exciting to see them thinking about it more.

[tardy vault]

This instruction is not very clear for how important it is to get the flag on the right way GW

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1f4zqd6/am_i_good_enough_to_post_in_the_big_boy_sub_now/

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/455065181094019073/1279204926878126140/78bvod45nold1.png?ex=66d397ed&is=66d2466d&hm=e2005c75013cac5a286426c690becb35f9eb8d15230bec8528c137e871a89196&

[mild glen]

Boys and girls and enby churls: do I do Soulblight Gravelords or Hedonites of Slaanesh for Spearhead?

[jaunty dawn]

both are pretty nice

temptation dice are cool

[tardy vault]

Does the Spearhead version still get temptation dice?

[mild glen]

I think spearhead gets army rules, but not detachment rules?

[tardy vault]

Yeah, but the army rules are watered down

Guess they would still get them but they're nerfed?

[bright dove]

Hedonites get Temptation Dice still in Spearhead.

[soft willow]

I also vote for Hedonites.

[mild glen]

I guess my real issue in deciding is the only real high-interest kit in the SBGL for me is the one I already have, whereas the Hedonites have a couple interesting ones.

[jaunty dawn]

i mean that just seems like you want hedonites then

[mild glen]

Hrm... for Big AoS, is High-mobility archers valid in Hedonites?

[jaunty dawn]

army rules entirely depend on the faction tbh

[mild glen]

That may be an easier slide than thr "Oops! All Melee Wizards!" In SBGL

[soft willow]

Allow yourself to be tempted, buy all the cool models.

[mild glen]

👀 That's a very Slaaneshi response...

[soft willow]

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/vanguard-hedonites-of-slaanesh-2023

I mean just look at them:

Why wouldn't you want these models?

[pastel rampart]

Of course, the problem is all that skin--you'll exit it either having mastered painting caucasian skin tones in your goddamn sleep or absolutely hate doing it.

https://fxtwitter.com/ginias1007/status/1829541675792015471

[soft willow]

You can paint them any skin tone you want.

You could paint them all lime green and hot pink for that matter

[mild glen]

Or, like... pale grey.

(I have no idea what color scheme I'm going to use)

[soft willow]

It sounds like you already agree you should indulge yourself on some hedonites then.

[tardy vault]

6/10 on Witch Aelves built

[bright dove]

Wooo!

[tardy vault]

These arms are the stuff of nightmares huh

[past sphinx]

i can fix him

[dense sedge]

I played slaanesh in a spearhead tourney and had a blast

Temptation dice are a lot of fun

They were a nightmare to assemble though

[mild glen]

How were they to paint?

[tardy vault]

And that's it

Entire Spearhead built

Just in time for AoS tomorrow

[dense sedge]

are those daemonettes? The spearhead has blissbards

[tardy vault]

Daughters of Khaine

Those are Witch Aelves

[dense sedge]

ah, sorry

should've guessed. Spearhead is a great gamemode though

for some reason my brain thought they were 3d printed deamonette proxies

[tardy vault]

Yeah, looking forward to it!

[dense sedge]

part of me wants to pick up a second box for it lol

[tardy vault]

God DoK is squishy

[dense sedge]

I played Slaanesh, so I get it

[tardy vault]

Lowest save in the box is a 5+

[wintry mist]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/reel/C-RgKnPI2Kd/?igsh=MWpna2IzdmVtdm1kYg==

[still warren]

Woo let's go Kruleboyz no longer with the worst win rate

[bold halo]

there was something about them having a high learning curve/skill floor right?

can't remember

god that spread is wild though

[south axle]

When the poster factions for the edition is in worst 5 win rates

[jaunty dawn]

not unusual tbh

[still warren]

You basically had to play them as a castle play style last edition which caused some problems

[jaunty dawn]

sylvaneth :(

but they'll probably be fixed by the time I have enough to actually play them in aos lol

[bold halo]

sylvaneth have absolute banger minis at least, they have something to comfort them

they're losing but they look good doing it

[quaint compass]

Sylvaneth need their wyldwoods to anything at moment

[floral herald]

As is tradition

[past sphinx]

Oh I'm cookin now

[mental birch]

How does KO play

Hmmm

[jaunty dawn]

ko spearhead is probably my biggest temptation as far as armies i dont plan to collect otherwise

just the unique gameplay of skyvessels and the variety of painting a cool balloon and some dorfs

[wintry mist]

roll on thursday...

[wintry mist]

the first thing I'm doing when space marine 2 comes out is grinding for a black and all the blood angels stuff and making my marine a Death Company marine

[granite basin]

I'm angling for Absolvers myself

All white will look good with all that blood-

[wintry mist]

oooooh shit

is there blood splatters?

[granite basin]

It looked like it from the gameplay, but I might need to look it over again

Either way, white on red isn't particularly difficult to work w

White base, black secondary, red metal trim

[floral herald]

I’m playing ULTRAMARINE

[granite basin]

Daring today, aren't we- /lh

[floral herald]

I just wanna match the thunderhawk :0

[granite basin]

You know what, you're so real for that

[floral herald]

I also do like the ultramarines in general and I like how SM2 is putting a spotlight on some rarer characters for them like Captain sevastus

[finite compass]

I'm seeing if I can pull off either Howling Griffons, Scythes of the Emperor, or Mortifactors

I know they have a Carcharodon emblem, but going for them just feels wrong when they don't have the older patterns of armor

[floral herald]

https://fixupx.com/heygmkenny/status/1829933600898257271?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

This and the various “first time painting a space marine!” Posts on minipainting lol

[jaunty dawn]

did this person confuse painterly with bad painting

[thin ibex]

im wondering what painterly describes

[jaunty dawn]

oh um

it's like

[floral herald]

It’s kinda having a quality kinda like a painting

[jaunty dawn]

like with 2d painting you'd use it to describe a painting that focuses on the paint medium and like, expressive brushstokes rather than like, photorealism

[floral herald]

Yeah

Like not studio team like “model realism”

[tired cairn]

That's not nearly bright enough to be the style at the time \s

[floral herald]

More like the book illustrations

[jaunty dawn]

Ie; I'm saying like, this person is calling the paintjob bad when it's actually really good it's just not going for like a scale model weathered style

[thin ibex]

right i get that, but i guess i was seeing the commentary kinda describing painterly as equating to bad kinda

ah yeah ok

like i understood painterly as a word, just not the way it was being used

[floral herald]

The joke for me is another person on Reddit posting very nicely painted models and saying “these aren’t that good but here they are haha”

[thin ibex]

i feel like thats a common meme amongst mini painters yeah?

"Painted my first model, what do you think?" model in question has won multiple awards for the paint job specifically

[tired cairn]

lol yeah

[finite compass]

Would Painterly Warhammer cross over a lot with, like, Blancheitsu?

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/s/TnxqscnWBF

Funny example

[tired cairn]

(all the more normal first time paint jobs don't get upvoted as hard lol)

[past sphinx]

Nah blancheitsu mostly relies on not using the Zorn pallet for some reason

Like something that was notable blanch

I don't understand it

[finite compass]

Nope, no Zorn Palette here

[past sphinx]

I was referring to the minature side of things

Lotta greys

[finite compass]

I know, that was more of a commentary on 'That is literally all Zorn Palette and also Blanche"

[jaunty dawn]

that's atlas's point

[finite compass]

I know. That was in agreement with the point!

this is cool though

[past sphinx]

Ooo my spyerers are in the mail

Time to bully some goliath

[dense idol]

sorry to come in here and do the annoying online thing that was just being talked about

but i've painted my first real set of miniatures and i'm not sure how to feel about them

[thin ibex]

well first, feel accomplished for having painted your first set of miniatures

[floral herald]

To be clear we weren’t talking about that

[granite basin]

Lamenters my beleaguered <3

[floral herald]

Just a Reddit painter habit of understating the poster’s accomplishments

[dense idol]

apologies for the photo quality, my phone was never designed for such focal lengths

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1146180043106684959/1279439179855429786/IMG_2024-08-31-14-50-28-668.jpg?ex=66d47217&is=66d32097&hm=bb23c3748a1bae76ba1a5e43ce575925d2dd56791576a7a1832cabb43e23cfa1&

[thin ibex]

they looks pretty great to me!

[granite basin]

Wouh?? That's some good shit!

[floral herald]

Yeah those look real nice

[dense idol]

i think i'm beating myself up too much for not applying "rules" consistently

[bold halo]

runs absolute laps around the first minis I ever painted, looking great

[dense idol]

like missing highlight points on certain bits of armour i don't on others, painting a greave gold on one model and black on another

[floral herald]

You’re always gonna be the most critical critic of your work because no one set painted them for an hour and saw every little mistake

[dense idol]

true

[past sphinx]

4 foot rule

[floral herald]

I think for most armies little mismatches in armor and such add good character

[granite basin]

It distinguishes them! And small little identifying details like that can go a long way

[dense idol]

i will reconfigure my mindset towards this

the messy, excessive highlighting on the first deathmark? simply battle scars, my friend, the sign of a veteran that has gone entire campaigns without regenerating beneath a tomb world

[floral herald]

Yeah!

I admittedly also collect mostly very individualistic armies so making each model stand out a little is fun

[dense idol]

the plasmacyte accelerator's sprue leg? a hand-crafted prosthetic, wrought by the technomancer for their most cherished construct

[granite basin]

Uniformity is impressive, and professional to be sure, but playing off imperfections injects a personality into each and every one

And being less concerned with perfection just makes it more fun in general

I think you're getting into the right idea :]

[tepid stratus]

Yeah they arguably have the highest skill floor in the game

[solemn gull]

That dog model is pretty good, nice realism

But also that model looks so sick on that base all the cold colours work really well together

[tardy vault]

Just did our first game of Spearhead

Extremely scuffed because no cards no mat

But was fun!

Only one head and one arm was lost

[bright dove]

Well, I have done as the kid I work with asked. I got some Maggotkin.

[wild fog]

Annoyed, lukewarm take: 90% of "Ultramarine bad" are just people who get their lore from memes and haven't read any actual books or even the codexes they reference.

That's true for literally every faction admittedly

[bright dove]

There was the Matt Ward era.

[wild fog]

Okay, let me turn up the temperature.

The Matt Ward era was not particularly unique or particularly bad in terms of making weird or unpopular lore decisions and the amount of flack it receives is again, based mostly on memes from people who weren't there.

Like, some of the codexes were definitely weird, but we are talking about a franchise that is full of various versions of early installment weirdness, or backwards decisions they'd later regret, or whatever.

Certainly not bad enough that the man had to endure death threats, of which there were many.

[bright dove]

Look, if you want to just be at the conclusion "Ultramarines aren't that bad" that's fine. But I draw the line that they weren't made the special boys by Matt Ward, and he did a disservice to them. And I was there for the Matt Ward Era. Shit was bad.

[wild fog]

And I was there since 2nd ed.

Also, not to be rude, but that's putting words into my mouth. The Matt Ward era wasn't that much of an outlier in the weird lore/'40k bad' department, and I'm speaking broadly, not about Ultramarines in specific.

Yes, they were over-emphasized as being the 'best' in that edition, I ain't gonna argue that.

[bright dove]

Like, my gripe with the Ultramarines is that they crowd out more interesting chapters.

Space Marine video game? Ultramarines.

[wild fog]

Yeah, I get that.

[bright dove]

Things like Nightbringer being setting defining? Guess what, it's happening in an Ultramarines book.

[wild fog]

I certainly wouldn't mind more words written about other chapters, but frankly I feel the same way about Xenos. I just don't... like, I'm not angry about it

[bright dove]

First Primarch to come back? The one for the Ultramarines.

First major Tyrannic War? Ultramarines

There are very legit reasons people will just sigh and go "Oh great, the Ultramarines again"

[past sphinx]

THERE WAS AN ENTIRE WAR WITH THE NIDS NEXT TO THE JUST REAWAKENED LION ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GALAXT

WHO TURNS UP CROSSING THE EYE OF TERROR

BLUE BOYS

frankly it feels absurd

[bright dove]

Like, there's a reason the memes exist

[past sphinx]

its like being at a house party with a friend for 20 years

you like your friend, hes fine but he keeps following you around as you try to talk to other people

Ultra's as a symbol of what the Maureen's could have been as an institution is interesting as like a side bit like all the other chapters

like going to a hardcore show and seeing someones 45 year old dad in the middle of the pit throwing elbows with the best of them

Its far more dilute when their the box art marine

[mild glen]

Honestly? As much as Space Marines feel like a "default" faction, it feels like the Ultras are the "default" Space Marine, and being the Default of the Default artificially creates a sense of "Boring".

I try to be careful and say the Space Marines aren't the "most boring" faction and are, instead, the "Least interesting".

[finite compass]

IDK. Ventris was actually an interesting character.

And at least those books helped in making the Ultramarines actually fleshed out rather than basically the TTS Cato Sicarius as a default

[mild glen]

There's interest to be found, but because of the whole "ultra default" bit, a little interest wanes pretty quickly.

[finite compass]

That seems to be a running thing with factions

The default is boring, but then the actual ancillary fluff and novels make them interesting again

See Also: the Black Legion

[mild glen]

Like, the T'au and the Vior'la spets are the least interesting Septs of the T'au, because they're just... "Normal T'au"

[past sphinx]

I think when you've got 52 flavors of freak Robert from account gets to be called boring

[finite compass]

Amusingly the Ultramarines books also featured the Death Korps before the Death Korps became overused meme-fodder.

[past sphinx]

It's intentional even

[finite compass]

Oh. No.

I thought of one that wasn't improved by the fluff.

[past sphinx]

Thats what makes em interesting

[finite compass]

The fucking Cadians.

[past sphinx]

There's 300 kinds of cadians now!

All more cadian than the last

[finite compass]

And all of them are boring!

[mild glen]

Give me Tallarn Models, GW!

[finite compass]

Go figure they're actually, allegedly, releasing another plastic Guard range

[mild glen]

Desert Raider Kill Team when?

[finite compass]

And GO FIGURE It's the Kriegers

[past sphinx]

Wheres my vostroyan killteam gw

[finite compass]

Where's my updated Catachans GW

[mild glen]

Release a new Cain book, and then give me Valhallans again.

[finite compass]

And Mordians

And Steel Legion

[past sphinx]

Preatorians

[finite compass]

Really I'll take anything except Cadians and Krieg at this point

[past sphinx]

Gimmie da freaks

[finite compass]

Maccabian Janissaries

[past sphinx]

Strange imperium that ain't gussied up with "nah their the good guys but not" nonsense pls

[mild glen]

The Guard are the infantry equivilent of Ork vehicles.

[past sphinx]

Necromunda i want more munda thats it

[finite compass]

Or my favorite guard regiment with no model range

[past sphinx]

Chem hounds?

[finite compass]

Savlar, ye

[past sphinx]

Right 'and bastard

Closed a warp portal with 20 men right?

[finite compass]

Because nothing says "Grimdark" like "We conscripted hardened criminals and now they're inhaling combat drugs through their rebreathers"

[mild glen]

You are found guilyy. Your sentence is death, but that death will serve the Emperor. Here's your lasgun and drugs.

[finite compass]

The Savlar also, canonically, have a habit of surviving things like inquisitorial purges due to suspected corruption

Because as it turns out the sort of people that live on a planet-wide prison and end up becoming career guardsmen are blessed with both a healthy disrespect for authority, and a knack for somehow being far far away from where the actual danger is.

Just shows up at the next numbered regiment.

"Wait, who's that guy, is he new?"
"He's a bald guy in a gasmask, just like the rest of us. You tell me."

but yes

some people find it annoying

I frankly love the "Take random historical soldier, file the serial numbers off, boom new guard regiment."

[past sphinx]

The trick to livin is being where people aint dyin

I love preatorians for the sake of "what are you doing here are you lost" energy

[finite compass]

Also these guys. From back when kitbashing was actually easy

Basically old Cadian weapons and arms combined with Brettonian Men at Arms everything else.

It was a really cool look

[uneven ember]

My big thing with the codicies of the era, especially the Space Marines and Grey Knights ones, were that they kept trying to big up their guys by shitting on other factions and homebrew designs
I know "Spiritual Liege" was a meme but, also, it was kind of obnoxious to declare that the Ultramarines aren't just an example of the faction or even a super well-respected example of same but how your (yes, your) Space Marines all secretly wished that Magnus Calgar was their real dad

[finite compass]

I have no idea if this is accurate or not, but I heard that it was originally supposed to be writing for an Ultramarine codex, but they changed it to 'Space Marines as a Whole' partway through?

[uneven ember]

maybe, idk
just, compare that or the Grey Knight thing where you know he's a badass because he completely chumps Daemon Primarchs with the DEldar Codex, right around the same time, where yeah Vecht completely plays both the Salamanders and the established hierarchy of the Dark City but the Sallies still get to sell their lives dearly and do last stands and generally do space marine shit instead of just getting completely roflstomped

[finite compass]

Yeah...

It's that kind of thing that makes me think it's post-facto ass-covering and Mat Ward just writes like that

[jaunty dawn]

5th edition codexes kinda sucked

as far as overall direction

but yeah for space marines it was like chapter tactics assumed you were an ultramarine successor unless you took a named character

[floral herald]

I’ll turn up the heat some, Mat Ward didn’t write anything bad except the funny description of Calgar (which is just overly wordy IMO)

[floral herald]

Actually I’ll turn down the temp a little bit- the mortarion stuff in the GK book was silly

[bright dove]

There's the Sisters of Battle being sacrificed so the Grey Knights could make runes out of their blood. You know, to help fight Khornate daemons

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s the good shit

It’s a good bit of lore to showcase how ruthless the GK are and how much they’re willing to burn allies in pursuit of their mission

And how the GK’s legendary resistance to chaos is a matter of artifice and effort and not just a magic no corruption powerscaling ability

At the time I think it was rejected pretty hard for meta-narrative reasons

(SoB were a very under-supported army in terms of models and they had a tendency to die in all their lore blurbs)

[unreal cosmos]

I'm gonna be kinda frank I feel like this is overlooking the fact that the Fourth Tyrannic War isn't just, the subject of a novel or something, it's context for a box they're selling. Yeah the Ultramarines are there, they're the guys they use to give the baseline Space Marine units a coherent visual.

[floral herald]

Also worth noting that the Lion has been in the Imperium Nihilus the whole time he’s been awake (until the conflict on Wyrmwood - which was apparently west of the rift but in the boonies of the Ultima Segmentum)

[past sphinx]

And they have sold other boxes with other legions center stage like 7th edition

And they didn't have a whole primarch back!

Dark vengeance is a weird box to also featuring the green Boys and having a bunch of CSM sculpts that never made it out

Death storm was the big box and it was nids and blood angels

[thin ibex]

At the end of the day, there are a LOT of interesting factions and things to write about that don't get the love they probably deserve

[unreal cosmos]

Idk to me I'm like. Not shocked that there's a Viewpoint Faction.

[thin ibex]

As a side note, I was a little disappointed that of the Big 3 from yesteryear, we've had big events around the UM and the BA, but largely the wolves have slid under the radar so far

[thin ibex]

Oh I agree

It's not shocking

[floral herald]

Ultramarines also make good starter box models because 99% of ultramarines can just be any other space marines and you can’t do that with most of the other codex supplement chapters

Fists I guess

[thin ibex]

Would just be cool to get more for [insert interesting faction here]

[unreal cosmos]

This just seems like business as usual and it seems weird because 40k has like, a weird multimedia empire around it compared to most wargames.

Also let's be real: good color scheme.

Blue, gold details, some flashes of red? C'mon.

[floral herald]

Dark Vengeance was sort of a weird one for that since it was very DA

[thin ibex]

Like I'm in the camp that's not mad at all that SM 2 is UM. UM are cool in their own right

[floral herald]

It was also a weird box for chaos since it was the initial release for the new art direction so nothing in that box fit in with anything else from the range

Except maybe old Oblits

[thin ibex]

Would I have enjoyed another chapter or a deathwatch game? Yeah. Am I gonna hate playing a UM? No.

I did like when the crimson fists were the poster boys for a bit

Mostly because of nostalgia for my very first interaction with 40k was a puzzle that featured them

[past sphinx]

Weird salamanders never got the big box treatment but I suppose they don't really have a specific big dude to build it around

[floral herald]

When did that happen? I know they were on the RT cover but was there a more recent time

[floral herald]

Yeah sallies don’t really have very unique models

[thin ibex]

Honestly I don't remember, because I was quite young

[floral herald]

Most of their texture comes from lore and rules

[thin ibex]

But I know the crimson fists were much more prominent for a time

[floral herald]

There was a long period where I didn’t follow 40k so I was wondering if it was in there

[past sphinx]

Iron hands need a edition to get real weird with it

[floral herald]

If you ask tournament players they’ve had more than 1 edition :p

[thin ibex]

I do think it would be cool for sallies and ravens to get a big box at some point

And obviously, white scars

But Sallies seem like a fairly fan favorite chapter that hasn't gotten all that much love

[past sphinx]

White scars would require cooler outriders

Or jetbikes

[thin ibex]

But it is also kind of meta funny that salamanders have legendary endurance and acceptance of trouble; and their players have long had no issue they couldn't endure regarding not having the spotlight

[past sphinx]

Need a big dreadnaught flamer

Couldve strapped one on the furious lad if gw was cool

[soft willow]

I think they were on the codex cover for 3rd or 4th ed

And they get occasional White Dwarf love IIRC

[floral herald]

Third edition yeah I think

I think 4e was that calgar cover

[soft willow]

It’s been a while but that sounds right.

[floral herald]

I just remember cause I started playing near the end of 4e

[bold halo]

yeah this was 3e

4e was definitely the calgar cover, that's the one I owned

also a banger tbh

look at that absolute freak in the middle just hanging out

[past sphinx]

I keep telling people about the ammo serfs and bam there one is

God Calgar looks sick there

[floral herald]

I think it's probably the best pic of him

[pastel rampart]

https://community.focus-entmt.com/focus-entertainment/space-marine-2/ideas SM2 has a suggestion box set up.

[thin ibex]

Oh hey I think this was the puzzle I did too

[floral herald]

im doin my part

[pastel rampart]

Hahaha

[thin ibex]

It's somewhat interesting that the Sally theme Detachment isn't about them being the toughest mfs on the loyalist side, but rather making flamers and guns scarier up close

[bold halo]

the thing most people know about salamanders is just fire = hot

[past sphinx]

And they're the good baby eating facists don't forget that

[tired cairn]

They care about the babies they are eating

(if they are human loyalists)

[past sphinx]

And not presenting one of the millions benign mutations present in humanity that put you on the ol spartan hillside

[wide valve]

The rat people are kinda cool

[upper canopy]

@floral herald @final tide A friend painted a Bladeguard as a Tempest Rider!

[muted elm]

EXACTLY! The imperium is, in every way, hostile to humans and their basic humanity

[finite compass]

3e had the best Codex art

Hands-down

[wide valve]

I love the Necrons :3 Zombiebots!

[runic swallow]

Oh man I just remembered that I have that redo poster of the classic Last Stand of the Crimson Fists

But I’ll always love the box art on the army box of the Imperial Guard (my first model kit), the one where they’re simultaneously doing a trench defense and deploying from a massive drop ship

Man, I really miss the look of the older art compared to the newer ones, but I’m also a guy who just bought a Frank Frazetta art book, so that kinda tells you what kind of fantasy art I like

I miss painted art, there’s something in it that’s missing from modern digital art

Not that digital art is bad by any means!

But it just doesn’t have the same feel

[past sphinx]

Was jt like the 800 page frazetta book?

[runic swallow]

No, though I really really want that some day

It was Rough Work (a collection of his sketches) and Living Legend (one that I think his company put together in the 70s)

[uneven ember]

There was a thing I messed with in some fanfic where a Water Caste talks about how an ork is always going to have no aspirations beyond fighting, but humans do have all these impulses and desires of higher meaning and art and community and the function of the Imperium is to turn all these impulses to the function of orkishness

[unreal cosmos]

Love the "scar"!

[floral herald]

That's sick

https://x.com/FedericoS15190/status/1830276378735882589

🍋𝑭𝒆𝒅𝒆🍋 (@FedericoS15190) on X

Kickass

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 4:07 PM

This is fun

[desert jay]

TBH I like the proposed rewrite that the GK asked the SOB for some martydom volunteers and got 'em just lining up to show their devotion to the Emperor and cause

[finite compass]

I'm a bit meh on the 'Mono-god armies aren't a thing in OW' but everything else in the previews looks aces.

[floral herald]

I think that's neat but I think its also good to preserve the callous way the GK spend other people's blood to complete their mission

But its also... unfortunate to make SoB the target of that blue on blue

my proposed rewrite would have been to make them sacrifice custodes

(idk how seriously you should take that I made it up on the spot)

[cloud flicker]

Is this old world?

That’s fun

[floral herald]

yeah

reminds me of the old optional rule like that for DA vs SW

[cloud flicker]

I think HH has some cool duel stuff mid game.

Duels are fun.

[tardy vault]

I kind of want to see such a rule in AoS

the only issue is certain models I think break it

[cloud flicker]

OW is neat. I hope more factions get in.

[jaunty dawn]

horus heresy (and 5e through 7e, technically 10e but not really) have duels

I Hated them when 5e came out lol, but now in heresy I do kinda understand them better - its basically a system whereby your sergeant models who all have better melee weapons etc fight each other rather than just avoiding each other to slaughter mooks

so there's also actually a reason for all 40k sergeants to be melee oriented

There's Also a mission where two primarchs have a duel to the death in the middle of the battle and no one can interfere - they also regenerate wounds to make it more interesting. the rest of the army handle objectives and also if their primarch dies they need to go defend his defeated body :)

(while the surviving primarch breaks off to go murder ppl)

[past sphinx]

Are legionaries better with chainswords and a special weapon or bolters with special weapon?

I'm of two minds

[jaunty dawn]

chainswords imo

[past sphinx]

Any good game theory behind it?

[jaunty dawn]

unit ability is melee only

[past sphinx]

That'll do it

[jaunty dawn]

and chainswords are just much better than boltguns

[bright dove]

This is pleasing to Khorne

[jaunty dawn]

4 attacks ap 1

I think in 9e tzeentch legionaries with Actual Psyker balefire acolyte n such had legs? but in 10e they're just so melee

[past sphinx]

Now just to talk myself out of the rocket launcher

[bright dove]

Why? 😛

[runic swallow]

It’s been a bit since I’ve played, but rocket launchers have utility in that they’re okay at both anti-infantry and anti-tank

They’re not the greatest at either, but it’s flexible

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah another reason for the melee is one guy gets a big axe which is pretty good

for special weapons you can use the slot to give legionaries plasma pistol and chainsword so that just makes sense, but no reason not to have fun with a rocket launcher really, unless you're committed to being optimal

[runic swallow]

This is why I’m baffled by the removing of bear point values, means there’s no more “fuck it, I’ll throw in a bunch of less optimal but cheap options”

I’ve not played the new edition so I don’t quite know how it works in practice, but it seems like a strange choice

[jaunty dawn]

in theory

in practice the optimal choice has just gone from take nothing except things you take every time and sometimes have an interesting choice to take everything and sometimes have an interesting choice

in the vast majority of cases there's still exactly one option thats worth it

[tired cairn]

The new system is the beer points system but at finer granularity

[pale narwhal]

I’ve played exactly one match of 10e. It’s weird but nice being able to take all the toys.

[jaunty dawn]

overall I think like, if they're not gonna make choices interesting I vastly prefer the good choice being the one where you actually take all the things the book say the unit brings

[tired cairn]

Oh, bear as in per weapon options?

[jaunty dawn]

gear I think

[tired cairn]

I think for infantry, generally doing points per wargear is too fiddly for the benefit. But if a weapon totally changes a unit's role, then it would be nice to have point differences for that (though I guess ideally just balancing it would be nice)

[jaunty dawn]

there are some things that are super dumb like sponsons on leman russ

[floral herald]

I agree with Pennywen - chainswords generally work better. But you can get decent mileage out of small Legionaries squads for a midfield heavy weapon

[jaunty dawn]

distributed heavy weapons can be pretty good yeah

one issue with boltguns themselves is like

intercessor squads have both seperate points and ability from assault intercessors but the really key thing is not the extra shots or heavy or point of ap, though they help, the really key thing is assault

cause getting to run around helps a lot

[floral herald]

Yeah boltguns are not very good

Though I think the usual loadout for those midfield squads is actually very few boltguns

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

like you're more comfortable giving up chainswords for better ranged weapons

[floral herald]

Since its usually like
Champ (plasma pistol)
Heavy weapon
HMW
funny book
boltgun

[jaunty dawn]

but your generic dudes probably still want chainswords

[floral herald]

Yeah legionaries want to be in melee anyway

and are best off as tier 2 assault troops

You've got cultists or whatever for the backline

[tired cairn]

"boltguns aren't very good" is so funny given the lore about them

[final tide]

that's so sick lets gooooo

i still kind of really want to try bashing together a deathwatch squad for the party but i am Uncertain of how economical i could make that

kits for bits is always a bad trade

[jaunty dawn]

it's the problem of evolving from a game where like

sure boltguns are scary but they're also the default gun

sure power armour is tough but it's the default armour

sure marines are brawny but they're the default body type

etc

[tired cairn]

Yeah

[bright dove]

Can't hear you over the sound of shuriken. 😛

[jaunty dawn]

shuriken are just short ranged, rending boltguns!

[past sphinx]

If you nake bolters good you make heavy bolters better and that creates some interesting problems

Stodes go to the fucking moon

[wild fog]

The ultimate reason for removing points on gear is that they simply don't want you to pick and choose items from a box but just assemble everything that's in the sprue

[jaunty dawn]

its actually a big problem with conflictmallet

is we're trying to make bolters good

but it has really weird effects

[past sphinx]

PL was already being pushed in what 7th or 8th?

And didn't have equipment costs

[jaunty dawn]

pl is um

8th and 9th

[past sphinx]

And now points is a hybrid

Ish

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

thanks to a few units that would otherwise be one profile

although I kinda disagree with the like

popular narrative about pl I guess

that there was an attempt to force ppl to use it n such

or that 10th edition is like spite

oh, for another matter power level did actually have gear costs sometimes

mainly cause of jump packs

[past sphinx]

But don't you see their coming after us the Gamers TM and they won't stop until everything is a cozy pilled farming simulatior!

[floral herald]

I think bolters were once sort of good but their profile hasn't really changed except for getting weaker when they lost AP5 and I guess stronger when Rapid Fire was made less restrictive

But now there's WAY more multi-wound models

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

good at like

shooting people who are just Worse so they die to bolters isn't super fun though

too many people played meq

[wild fog]

The competitive player base of 40k experiences such a wildly different game then the baseline player

PL was so obviously a way to throw armies against each other real quick for friendly games. I don't recall it being forced as the standard but it was treated like such an attack

[floral herald]

I don't think super different these days, at least in terms of skew

There's a lot of fucky stuff that people don't really do in friendly games which happens in comp though

Like rules gotchas and stuff like rhino ankleshots

[jaunty dawn]

or weird implications of charge rules

or that period of a few years where someone realised that technically you need to roll dice in a weird way to use command rerolls, ruining the mechanic for everyone until recently where they finally fixed fast rolling

[soft willow]

The entire pivot rule comes out of the competitive community finding a way to make something that's just flat cheating a plausable rules loophole.

[floral herald]

the whole fast rolling thing was fucking dumb oml

[wild fog]

(Also Competitive having a consistent problem of cheating, often by withholding key information about how rules work doesn't say good things about the idea of 40k as a competitive game or the current way GW is handling rules)

[soft willow]

This isn't a current GW issue. This is an issue that goes back as far as Warhammer.

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's been a consistent problem with the competitive community, the gw difference is mainly how they react to it I think

especially now that they control the entire comp scene a lot more

[soft willow]

Fair.

It's clear they need a better understanding of the competitive game space and how people are playing it in that lens.

It's way different than the "GM" guided narrative game day at the club that they started out in.

[uneven ember]

I do also feel like GW is of the opinion that while they want to keep competitive players happy casual is ultimately their main market

[desert jay]

I also think it's not a 40k specific problem and it's one of the most common forms of cheating in competitive card gaming too

Esp. b/c those run even more complex engines of special rules interacting w/ each other

[wild fog]

Generally those rules aren't paywalled though, which exacerbates the problem

[desert jay]

There's not much difference in effect to paywalled rules when someone plays a card you haven't seen before and you don't have access to official rulings on it while at the table

[runic swallow]

Basically anything with a bunch of complex rules interactions that might not come up for you or you haven’t read up on because it’s a edge case for an army you and your usual opponents don’t play is gonna have the “trust me bro” problem

[pastel rampart]

Yeah this is more or less correct, though the comp scene has a weird knock-on effect that ripples through casual play because people who are not hardcore comp players hear about weird rules interactions or broken lists and think that is how the game should be played/the rules are broken/I won't play against this army because X/etc.

There's no real solution to it either, at least not elegantly.

[runic swallow]

It was very interesting playing as a casual, not able to invest much in models player in a store that was majority competitive guys

On the one hand, I fuckin’ earned those victories, on the other I didn’t win very often and still have a very skewed idea of how army lists should be made

[uneven ember]

yeah, there is a lot more overlap and sharing of those kinds of strategies than there were back when. internet and all

[pastel rampart]

Yeah. The more broken combos in 3rd weren't as widespread, but around mid-to-late 4th it started to become a lot more common.

[thin ibex]

It's not much but I made some progress

Got my leaders built and based (I did double up on the fireplades base, I wanted him to sit high compared to the fire warriors around him)

[jaunty dawn]

nice :D

what sculpted base is that?

does he come with it

[thin ibex]

Not sure how to magnetize the ghostkeels secondaries, or if I just want to put one thing and say it's another when I need to

Oh yeah it just comes with it

[jaunty dawn]

fair

[runic swallow]

Man, I wish I had a space to set up my mini painting stuff, but right now Goblin has to have free reign of everywhere

[jaunty dawn]

classic goblin behaviour

[thin ibex]

im trying to get everything built, i think i have 1 stealth team left

[runic swallow]

Very much so

[thin ibex]

ill have a fire warrior team, a breacher team, 2 stealth teams, 1 ghost keel, a fireblade, an ethereal, a broadside, a crisis team, and an enforcer suit commander

and then i gotta get started on my bro's kill team gift, the kasrkins

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1279955028660195412/img_6_1725235430822.jpg?ex=66d65283&is=66d50103&hm=2ffb3942c78882845f1f2c1099af27a2b84eb0ef291d2f77e22ed22eaa67a0f9&

[jaunty dawn]

horus is brat

[floral herald]

Oh I understand how the nails work now

[pastel rampart]

lmao

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/09/01/sunday-preview-the-children-of-the-great-horned-rat/

Rats!

[marsh haven]

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR! LET THE GALAXY BURN!

[floral herald]

https://x.com/nicta_nova/status/1830390425414221847?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Nictanova (@Nicta_nova) on X

I rarely draw memes, but I always get happy when I see this meme about harlequins, I couldn't resist and quickly made it

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 11:40 PM

[mental birch]

how did it skew?

[runic swallow]

Oh, I more mean that I picked up a weird mix of competitive strats/attempted counters to them but mixed with just going with what I already had/didn’t have to pay a lot for

Basically just kinda a strange environment to be new to the game

[wide valve]

I'd like to try some games sometime, soon as I could get an army together

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/TheGraffitiSoul/status/1830053512929296780

[past sphinx]

WE viewing the imperium as tyrants and slavers would be an interesting thing to explore

But I like dickbag semi corrupted renegade csm

[finite compass]

``Guilliman ignored him, aiming a gauntlet at Angron. ‘I’ve heard Lorgar’s puling heresies already. What brought you so low, brother? Did the machine in your skull finally refashion your loyalty into madness?’

‘Hnnngh. They let me dream. They give me peace. What would you know of struggle, Perfect Son? Hnh? When have you fought against the mutilation of your mind? When have you had to do anything more than tally compliances and polish your armour?’

‘Childish,’ Guilliman sighed, gesturing to the burning, dying city. ‘Does it really come down to this? So pitiably childish.’

‘Childish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave.’ Angron stepped closer, chainswords revving harder. ‘Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom?’

Angron sprayed bloody spit as he frothed the words. ‘And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?’

The two primarchs met again. Guilliman’s powered gauntlets should have easily deflected Angron’s chainswords, but the World Eater’s strength drove his brother back step by step. Chain-teeth sprayed from the weapons as eagerly as the saliva from Angron’s lipless slit of a mouth.

‘Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.’``

But yeah

Betrayer is a great book, and that's actually a big part of Angron's motivation

He sees the Emperor as just a continuation of the same sort of people who enslaved him to begin with

(Which basically means Lorgar manipulates the hell out of him by playing on this mindset)

[wild fog]

He has another great scene with Leman too I really like. Excellent novel

[ebon forge]

Easily one of the best parts in the book

[jaunty dawn]

he said hnnnng

[wintry mist]

space marine 2 colour scheme...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/215058718646206474/1280095591661043783/bisexual-pride-color-scheme-space-marine-full-paint-recipe-v0-85ug5qilbsca1.png?ex=66d6d56c&is=66d583ec&hm=77525d13cd07993781288945479aea829cfbfebdbc465c8db4fe4edf713b0b6e&

gonna do something as gay as possible

[fervent coral]

what flag is that?

[jaunty dawn]

bi

[fervent coral]

i see

cool paintjob nontheless! 👍 .

[pulsar cairn]

my favorite pride marine is the non binary one

just look at the lad

[silk verge]

soon to be scythe man

i hate painting yellow so much

[pastel rampart]

I'm a big proponent of either airbrush or rattlecans for yellow, because screw alla that.

[thin ibex]

A very simple list that I think could work

[thin ibex]

It is asking for a lot of load bearing rogal dorn-ness though

But three oppressor canons I think can chew through most targets ok

[wintry mist]

🤨

nontheless?

[unreal cosmos]

Could anyone who's painted the push-fit Infernus marines tell me if they're worth sub-assembling or not? The flamers are pretty big but also there's gonna be ten of 'em and some of the posing is a little fiddly so I'm not sure how my priorities shake out.

[pastel rampart]

Looking at the infernus marines and honestly? You could easily get away with just assembling the whole thing first and then paint, the flamers don't seem to hide anything important.

[jaunty dawn]

I didn't

[unreal cosmos]

all I needed to hear lol

[jaunty dawn]

hehe

[thin ibex]

After building the fireplade, I do wish he had options

Like a helmeted version

And a carbine

[unreal cosmos]

breacher fireblade would be pretty great

[thin ibex]

i also noticed they're wearing a power suit, its not normal fire warrior armor

[desert jay]

Yeah that one came out really well, a lot of the time I feel the color balance doesn't represent the flag well

But in this one they yellow pops great against the purple and black

[jaunty dawn]

yeah they get that 3+ save

pretty dope looking

I think it's a good design basis for like, modernised xv15s

apparently he lost it for 7th ed tho lol

or wait no he didn't have it when introduced either hm