Warhammer and Such

[jaunty dawn]

or like how its actually kinda wild that we can throw a pointed stick fast enough to kill stuff

big rock we made explode is a little different. but also there did used to be an entire specialism about it

like elite troop was synonymous with 'person who is super strong so they can throw grenade good'

but now we have low velocity grenade launchers. or man portable guided missile launchers

but yeah then the thing is that kroot are kinda built around doing those things but better. they have super muscles. and two thumbs. and crazy hormones

kroot are cool :)

(and they also do dogs better cause the dogs are their cousins)

[valid brook]

Well, received wisdom says that M67 is round like a baseball to increase throwability over historic form factors (pineapple type et al)

[jaunty dawn]

oh for sure

its more about like, you dont hit people with the grenade itself to cause damage

and before grenades throwing stuff had kinda gone bad cause converting that energy with a bow or crossbow is just more efficient

so it comes and goes

but yeah I think specifically the problem I have is less about humans and more about gue vesa concepts often being based on humanity under the greater good having the exact same expression as under the imperium

if it took the opportunity for the humans to also be different like the old mining gangs or the idea of human insurgents it would actually be pretty cool I think

its kinda a similar thing to how gsc has slowly moved away from relying on just being bald guardsmen. even if I dont think that aspect should completely go away

[arctic lynx]

When did Fehervari write a Necron novel (I'm kidding, Infinite and the Divine is peak 40k and up there).

[pastel rampart]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_Jc9b5tA0I/?igsh=MTBob2s5YmJ4MTFyaA==

trethalis

Had leftover greenstuff, so made some little guys who are doing their best.

Likes

108

Instagram

[solemn gull]

When are we getting eldar and ork auxiliaries for tau

[tranquil ivy]

Many call it xenos scum

I call him Kindle.

My Successor Chapter's little pet

similar to Old One Eye, Kindle was separated from the Hivemind via psyker energy, and with his newfound consciousness decided to stay with the marines, who kept him around because he was a nice change from all the daemons they've fought

being from the horus heresy age they havent really had time to hate xenos. So things like Necrons, Tau and Tyranids arent on an immediate kill list

[jaunty dawn]

neurogaunts are so Baby

[thin ibex]

I was thinking, in lore, the chimera's standard armament is the multilaser. The weapon is meant to be a generalist fire support weapon that can engage light armor too. But game wise it has no AP?

I guess it's like the heavy bolter, which is often cited as light AT in lore too

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it's weird

[jaunty dawn]

least helpful rumour engine award

[floral herald]

I was just gonna

https://x.com/bitshammer/status/1828420050031931749?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Nefarious Bits 🏳️‍🌈 (@BitsHammer) on X

I am staying a blank on which factions use blades with hard corners like this

Twitter · Aug 27, 2024, 1:11 PM

Yeah it’s a hard one

[jaunty dawn]

kinda chisel-like

stonemason faction

[soft willow]

Is it a blade? Or some kind of crystal?

If the later, could be some weird necron base bit?

[thin ibex]

its a primaris lieutenant

[floral herald]

Primaris lieutenant with tanto greatblade

[junior robin]

finally, edge highlighting

[still warren]

Necron Cthon unit is my guess, not actually a blade but a crystal

[junior robin]

now I cant unsee the top pointy bit being the flat tip of a really thick blade with the edge away from the viewer.

[paper bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/cloud-yes-woo-hoo-sword-gif-13830475

[hard whale]

my first thought was "AEldari Diresword" but I think I might have remembered them looking cooler than they actually are

[thin ibex]

Tried to build like a "standard" guard army, lore wise

i figure a lot of infantry squads generally have heavy bolters

rather than uniformally lascannons

[jaunty dawn]

hell yeah!

infantry platoon with two armoured fist squads, + a leman russ squadron, some headquarters stuff, and a squad of scions

[thin ibex]

i notice that if i played this way, shot volume is WAY up

just a whole lotta ratatata

i did mess up o nthe second leman, its meant to be kitted up with 2 hb and a stubber

I didn't find room for a hellhound in there, or a hydra, but im comfortable with it

at 3k id probably include some sort of air support element and maybe more dedicated artillery

maybe a baneblade too

[jaunty dawn]

playing spearhead at a table. feels so luxurious 😳

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/DYorgy/status/1828225101923336413?t=38CEeZjJDY0Ns8NiJOt8aQ&s=19

[jaunty dawn]

hahah nicee

[thin ibex]

thats amazing actually

[jaunty dawn]

my partner just used fight twice and only managed to kill 4 rats with 4 liberators

i did spike two saves but they rolled So Bad

...and then 3 rats immediately return

[jaunty dawn]

im so happyy

spearhead

fun

probably one of the most engaging battles Ive had tbh

middle of round 4 (final) its 18-14 to me, my partners turn

so 5 points to win

n i got a pretty brutal double turn, even

i wanna get us our own armies so baaaaaad aaaa

:3

[rocky shale]

Resisting the urge to buy a spearhead box given my existing pile of shame

[jaunty dawn]

yeaH

[soft willow]

Do it, revel in your shame pile.

Swim around in it like the Scrooge McDuck of unassembled plastic models.

[jaunty dawn]

gonna pick up sylvaneth first I think, though I have my eye on a few. and thats cheating cause imma just proxy drycha for the treelord so shes already painted :)

save the treelord for parts cause i have a grudge against the model lol

[pulsar cairn]

how effective is the ultramar auxilia?

[jaunty dawn]

in 40k probably about as much as guard but

[pine matrix]

I was looking at the sylvaneth spearhead and you don't really get many models in the box, are they a elite army?

[jaunty dawn]

Guard As Actually Good Ppl

[jaunty dawn]

kinda elite? tree revenants are 2 wound 40mm infantry like stormcast, and you also get like kurnoth hunters which are 5 wound 50mm infantry that you can still take quite a lot of

you can also even go full treelord

uhhh, dryads were really bad last edition so saw little play and thus skewed the faction further elite

no idea what they're like now though

For Spearhead, definitely very elite. Treelord is one of the biggest units in the format, kurnoth archers are also super big. They only get one reinforcement when stormcast, with the same number of models get two

[pine matrix]

Fair enough! Tbh I am primarily interested in the ghostly tree people so not rocking with dryads isn't so bad

[jaunty dawn]

yeah me too!

they're great

one good thing about spearhead too is you don't need to get the infamous tree terrain haha

[pine matrix]

Thank goodness

[floral herald]

AIUI very, they’re equipped and trained to an ultramarine standard and since they’re tithe exempt the UMs get to keep them all and don’t have to deal with DM shittiness with officers and logistics

Also as a pet peeve of mine - their is afaik their sole official art piece and they look nothing like the ultramarines

[jaunty dawn]

lmao

way too scrungly imo

they should be obsessed with parade drill n shit

in horus heresy there's uh, ultramar pattern cohort as a detachment type for solar auxilia

(this is seperate from a special rule auxilia can get from allying with space marine)

where instead of Rifle Tercios they get like

[floral herald]

I actually like the split

[jaunty dawn]

Heptio? they can take a command squad and 6 rifle sections

as one slot

and then they also get the old parade drill rule thing of getting a bonus for being ranked up in base contact with each other

[floral herald]

The way I see it the pomp and blue is an ultramarines thing and the Auxila is basically the product of 1000 war turbonerds making the most lethal toy soldiers local military they can optimize

[jaunty dawn]

idkkk

I agree that a split could be compelling, yeah

[floral herald]

So then basically all being scrungly looking storm troopers with crazy gear adds up for me

[jaunty dawn]

but ultramar is Like That from the bottom up, imo

and like I think, the narrative for Ultramar Auxilia is they are just straight up descendents of Ultramar Auxilia. The auxilia never left ultramar

or at least that's what I'm interested in I guess

[desert jay]

Gap moe

[jaunty dawn]

I think 4e regiment abilities I'd do like
Close Order Drill
Carapace Armour
Special Weapon Squads
Heavy Weapons Platoons
Veterans

[tardy vault]

First snake built. Ignore the missing bit. Tiny ass piece ran off

[jaunty dawn]

ooh nice

snek

[mild glen]

Oh gods. Are... are we the Ultramarines?

[floral herald]

They are one of the factions which makes little guys

For tabletops

I think

[tardy vault]

Hate hate hate doomfire warlocks
I bought this box to build elf and snake ladies
Not dudes on horses

Like, I get wizard calvary is handy

But fuck these guys

[uneven ember]

does like they're trying to do space armor that looks like lorica segmentata

[floral herald]

Yeah I think that's just kind of the extent of it

[mild glen]

Sorry. Wizard Cavalry? What faction is this?

[floral herald]

Daughters of Khaine

[mild glen]

I'm going to have to find a rule set that allows me to just use a bunch of Dudes On Horses, aren't I?

[tardy vault]

Yeah mechanically pretty good, especially for the Daughters

[floral herald]

AoS army building is pretty open I think you can just spam them if you really want

[tardy vault]

Very mobile army that has an unlimited spell they love to spam

So having wizard cav to follow your frontline and buff them is great

[proud wing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sMHcQBIsZU

[floral herald]

I gotta put my spearhead together

[tardy vault]

What we're doing right now lol

[tardy vault]

Hawk eyed roommate to the rescue

[dense sedge]

played a spearhead event two weekends ago and it was really fun

[bright dove]

I get it. I am admittedly not a DoK fan, but they seem particularly unfun to put together.

[wild fog]

Warhammer elves and being an absolute nightmare to assemble, name a more iconic duo

[tardy vault]

The arms and head are a fucking pain especially for the two that have reverse grips on their swords. Those limbs are probably common pain points across most models (getting the arm to attach to the staff on my Ironscale was also annoying), but it's just compounded by not being what I want to build.

I'm down to fiddle and wrestle with getting the snakes glued together nice. Getting these ball joint ass fuckers to not stab their own hair? Fuck off

I am tracking down ideas for paint scheme tho

We want to do purple for the cloth and snakes

Which seems to be a fairly common choice

[thin ibex]

In a "standard" deployment for astartes, they wouldn't even deploy terminators world they?

[floral herald]

“Standard” is a tricky word for space marines but yeah termies are rare

[thin ibex]

Yeah it's a bit of a murky target, but I was thinking in a narratively oriented "standard" list, most sorties are probably led by a lieutenant or even lower (since until recently, you could even consider deploying a single squad a "standard" xD)

So no captain, no terminators, no dreadnought. In the modern era, infiltrators seem to fill a similar role to scouts

Thus isn't quite right, but this is where I ended up

[floral herald]

Tbf dreads are pretty standard - they’re organic to battle companies

[thin ibex]

Yeah the main thing I thought of though, is that there are usually something like 1-4 Dreads in a company active, with exceptions

Meaning most forces won't have them

But it did dawn on me, for the alt standard list, I should really be designing around a thunderhawk

[desert jay]

Even LTs are a modern thing for them, pre-Primaris you just had sergeants at the squad level, captains at the company level, and a handful of specialists sprinkled about (librarians, chaplains, techmarines)

[thin ibex]

Is that each company has a librarian/apoc/chap or that they each have a chief one, and lesser ranked ones in more volume?

Designing around the thunderhawk is hard

2k is too much for a single deployment "standard" but 1k might be too little

If an invictor could be carried on a stormraven though, that combo makes for a great center for a 1k army

[desert jay]

I don't know old chapter org charts that well, I remember techmarines are actually parallel in the chapter and loaned out to companies, but don't remember librarians and chaplains

Okay, found org charts

Pre-primaris: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/ce/CodexOrganisation.jpg

Post-primaris: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/0/04/SMChapterOrgNew.jpg

Changes sumamry:

• Vehicles moved to armoury section
• Chaplains and apothecaries moved to new specialist sections
• LTs added
• Old squad types (tactical/etc) replaced with new squad types (battleline/etc)

[mental birch]

Silly idea I have

BFG mixed campaign

[jaunty dawn]

those models have not aged super well haha. I do really like the shadowstalker wizardboys though

[pulsar cairn]

Were the ultramarines from 30k any nicer to mortals?

I ask cause they actually did a lpt for the planets they conquered

I remember folks saying they would turn planets into actual functioning societies

[solemn gull]

About as nice as they are now

[pulsar cairn]

Huh i see

[solemn gull]

Still canonically making jazz music

[jaunty dawn]

installing functional authoritarian societies wherever they go

[pulsar cairn]

True

[jaunty dawn]

not as nice as post Lorgar, pre monarchia Word Bearers were though probably

[pulsar cairn]

I remember they would actually sit down and teach people the way of their religion and stuff

Which didnt involve skinning your neighbour

[jaunty dawn]

mm

still awful imperialists overall of course but

dedicated to the rebuilding

just like. ignore why what came before has been cleansed in promethium xP

[pulsar cairn]

Yeh

[floral herald]

The former

Except for librarians anyway, which I guess are just assigned out of the Librarius directly

[unreal cosmos]

Y'know I've looked at both these charts multiple times but never really picked up on the changes beyond the squad types

[paper bluff]

That was the night lords. Ironically they had the lowest kill count of any legion

[pulsar cairn]

i remember their conquered planets had an issue of revolting later on, since they did it through mostly fear

[paper bluff]

Well kinda sorta

[solemn gull]

Once they left all the change kind of reverted

Because they wouldn’t be coming back

[wild fog]

I only remember that explicitly happening to the Night Haunter's homeworld

[soft willow]

Thoughts on this Imperial Agents list? https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/list/BtwMq

[mental birch]

Why isn't the dw in a rhino?

[soft willow]

I expect to infiltrate them up the board instead.

Not against having a Rhino, and or splitting that squad, what would you drop to fit it?

[thin ibex]

big ol go wide infantry list with a firesupport/distraction carnifex knight ey?

i suspect the assassins will put in some work

the more basic infantry feel like they are in danger of evaporation, but there are some nice target priority comrpomises

[soft willow]

A lot of the basic goobers have 4++ options, and one of them will regen from the Rogue Trader medic.

But yeah I expect them to die.

After they've scored me points or denied the enemy them though.

[rocky shale]

The knight is the only anti tank lol

[rocky shale]

Definitely a rhino for the dw, maybe an immolator to split the sisters (and for the melta). Dropping the voidsmen is probably the way to go, they're kinda underhwelming

[past sphinx]

HOLD THE TRIGGER, HEAR THE TORTURED SCREAM OF THE PLASMA COIL SING TO THE DARK GODS

[thin ibex]

very true, but the enemy tanks dont need to die if they arent scoring

the knights gonna be a an AT magnet and even then its not easy to put down

honestly id hope for it to absorb an egregious amount of damage rather than hope it somehow pops all the enemy armor

[uneven ember]

that's dope

[soft willow]

I figure the voidsmen are cheap ways to screen or drop in on my opponent's backline for points/objectives, but Rhino is valid.

[wild fog]

I feel like the amount of AT to take down a knight is overestimated and it's value as a distraction carnifex is iffy. They are a chunk of points and you don't have to shove volumes of fire at them

It's not like there are better targets for AT weapons if you go wide with infantry and the knight is the only tank threat

[rocky shale]

Breachers are a little bit more but actually can deal a little damage too. The 3 las guns and Las-volley are just underwhelming

For 50 points they're basically just bodies and nothing else

[soft willow]

Yup, and that's the plan for them.

[rocky shale]

For sitting on a home objective, a split squad of sisters with an immolator is solid

[thin ibex]

The knight is T13 right? Most AT wounds it on a 5+ in that case, with only a few examples of best in class that would wound it on a 3

[rocky shale]

T12 S3+ 5++

Oh it's a castellan

T13 2+ 5++ 24W

But at 525 points you can't really use it as just a distraction

You gotta kill shit with it

[bright dove]

I mean. It absolutely can.

[rocky shale]

Yeah

[wild fog]

In my experience they don't kill nearly enough to justify a single model being over 25% of your army

[rocky shale]

The real pain point with allied big knights is they don't even get one of thier abilities since it's only for armigers

[wild fog]

Or force your opponent to bend obj

Also free bring it down VP

[rocky shale]

Canis Rex is a standout big knight partially because both it's abilities still work when you ally it

[soft willow]

Yup but Rex has to risk himself and get up close, the Castellan can just park somewhere and blow things away from downtown.

[soft willow]

From what I've seen of it, it's less of how much they kill and what they can kill that other things in Knights or in this case Agents can struggle with.

I've played a lot of IK with a Castellan and I do think it's better than folks give it credit.

But it will suck not having re-rolls on the Volcano Cannon.

[thin ibex]

I think in general it's important to remember that killing stuff isn't the objective of the match. It just supports controlling the objectives. So it's not "how much can the castellan kill" its "what can it kill, where, and when"

Sometimes killing one thing in the right place on the right round is what matters

Rather than killing a lot of stuff

[thin ibex]

(and I think that there really isn't any model where the castellan is a non threat to probably)

[soft willow]

Lone Operative models tend to be able to avoid it, that's about it.

Agents have a different answer to that though.

[thin ibex]

is it generally better to run missiles or cannons on the big knights?

like if you're TAC

[rocky shale]

I think cannons just because anti-titanic is super niche

[soft willow]

The missile is a good anti-tank option not just anti-titanic but you need the cannons or you won't have enough volume of attacks in most cases.

In IK it's always going to be cannons, in Agents I see a reason to run the missiles instead though.

YMMV in other armies, but I don't think most other Imperial armies need what the Castellan offers.

[thin ibex]

oh knowing you do play some knights, the valiant obv isn't particularly comp atm, but what are your thoughts on it in general?

i feel like if i ever did play knights id want one

because harpooon

big nasty flamer means i cant miss too

[soft willow]

It's a fun one to run a melee heavy list with.

Sucks that titanic flamers can't overwatch though.

[rocky shale]

The harpoon is funny when it works and when you go up against vehicle lists

[soft willow]

Competitively the Lancer does it's job better, but I have mad respect for anyone who's out to harpoon a tank and or monster.

[rocky shale]

Flat 12 damage is hilarious

[thin ibex]

might be fun to just... get like standalone too

but yeah i gravitate to big harpoon

I figure in a casual game, the harpoon generates more fear than maybe it's worth

[wintry mist]

thinking of pre-ordering Space Marine 2...

[thin ibex]

I wanna make an agents list now too

[floral herald]

There’s been enough preview stuff that you can have a reasonable idea of what you’re getting into

I think the no pre-orders rule doesn’t apply as much in that case

[soft willow]

Honestly perfect for casual because of that!

[wild fog]

That argument cuts both ways. The Castellan is not great at objective play, can give VP to the opponent depending on loadout and is ostensibly there as a damage sponge or an AT answer. You can field if you want I just personally wouldn't put 25% of my points into something I'd hope the army would both struggle to kill and paradoxically not be able to play around and secure objectives. Like if they ignore it and just focus on clearing chaff is it going to make up for losing the scoring units somehow?

Ymmv and everything but I'm just not convinced, particularly since there are tankier more dispersed options.

But far be it from me to say a big stompy Boi isn't fun to field so go nuts, just keep in mind it's not all roses

[thin ibex]

I think you're rationale makes sense, I just don't think the "how much can this big costly thing kill" is the primary evaluation metric for the big thing

and I think the critical eye towards anything that eats up that much of a points proportion is valid

[past sphinx]

sounds like a size problem that a deathstrike can fix

[thin ibex]

Really do wish the deathstrike hit harder

[wintry mist]

yeah but it's the Season Pass

I don't know what I'm getting from it

I can wait like 3 days

but the season pass? wtf is in it

[floral herald]

Oh there’s a thing on it

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2183900/view/4238536974144553830?l=english

Still sort of vague

[wintry mist]

oh the ultra edition pack looks so good

[wintry mist]

the problem is that I pre-ordered darktide and the game was somehow buggier on release

it literally crashed if I clicked too much in the menu

so I'm skeptical but fuck I want the game a few days early

[finite compass]

If only they weren't Primaris...

Oh well, I'm still totally getting it

Though this probably means we're not getting what we had in 1, where you could unlock the different marks of armor

MK. V my beloved

[wintry mist]

Primaris is so cool though

smh

wait you can make custom colour schemes

oh my god.

[finite compass]

Yep!

If you can do halved/quartered I'm gonna be so happy.

[floral herald]

You can

[finite compass]

Nice

I know you can color the hands separately and pull off Crimson Fists

I have half a mind to do something stupid

Like color everybody teal and silver, and give them Alpha Legion markings

Even Especially the loyalist classes

[tardy vault]

From what I can tell, the coloring is granular enough that you can do every canon loyalist chapter's paint job given you have the right colors

[finite compass]

Probably not the actual chapter badge for most of them, but that's to be expected

[tardy vault]

Yeah, tho they do have a bunch

And all the big ones are there ofc

[wintry mist]

I'm gonna be making my own space marine colours

they kinda sucked (all black, they were shit to paint) so I'm definitely doing smthn new

[finite compass]

If you can do the same to the Chaos classes, I'm totally making somebody a Son of Malice

[tardy vault]

They have some rocking metalic colors

[tardy vault]

we actually don't know what chaos customization looks like

[finite compass]

I know the classes are legion locked

But you can change the colors, apparently

But like the Chaos Assault is still gonna have Night Lord iconography no matter what color he is

[tardy vault]

.....did they lock fucking tactical to World Eaters?

Because I remember World Eaters using bolt rifles

in the previews

[finite compass]

IDK if they're the only one, but they're Tactical

Death Guard get the class with the shield

[tardy vault]

......why

World Eaters should be like Assault

[finite compass]

Assault is a Night Lords Raptor

I always thought it weird that WE in 40k couldn't ever have jump packs

[thin ibex]

obv im gonna try and do a wolf spear or space wolf color scheme

[finite compass]

You used to be able to give them bikes

[thin ibex]

knowng that the wolfspears kinda have a monochromatic scheme

[tardy vault]

They have everything for Space Wolves

[thin ibex]

yeah sw will be easy, ive even see nthem in the promotionals

wolfspears uncertain; but can always use the space wolf scheem and change the yellow to white

(wolfspears tend to do the black/white/grey look)

oh with red accents

[finite compass]

That definitely seems doable

[thin ibex]

Yeah I think so too

Just can't do the fine details like rune markings and stuff, and I can live with that

[bright dove]

That's actually simple. Running gets the blood pumping. :p

[wintry mist]

Heavy right?

[finite compass]

No, the melee one. Vanguard, I think?

[wintry mist]

wtf

wtf

why isn't the World Eaters... the melee class...

do I have the WE confused

[finite compass]

Probably because one melee class has a jump pack, which isn't a WE thing, and the other uses a shield, which ALSO isn't a WE thing

[wintry mist]

mmmm

wtf is black legion then

[finite compass]

No idea

[solemn gull]

Really big

[finite compass]

Alpha Legion gets the sniper

Which...You know. That tracks.

[wintry mist]

ah

[solemn gull]

Give them respawns

[wintry mist]

vanguard is like

Vanguard
Default Loadout: Instigator Bolt Carbine, Bolt Pistol, and Combat Knife
Special Equipment: Grapnel Launcher

scout

Tactical sounds... sad

Tactical
Default Loadout: Bolt Rifle
Special Equipment: Auspex Scan

[tardy vault]

Auspex Scan does dumb shit in PvE

[finite compass]

Bulwark

[wintry mist]

Oh I can imagine that shit is broken

[finite compass]

Bulwark is the shield one

[tardy vault]

That damage increase is fucking nuts

[finite compass]

(Bulwark should have been Iron Warriors)

[wintry mist]

thgats what I was expectingf

and death guard would be heavy

stupid game... :(

[finite compass]

IW have actual precedent for it

https://youtu.be/Knez2-QnzhM?t=29

[past sphinx]

jesus christ those are the slowest eldar ive ever seen

[finite compass]

That's because they're the rarely seen 5th eldar subfaction

The Jobber Eldar

[wild fog]

Yeah they're allied with the Jobber Tau

[thin ibex]

Little known iron warriors slow field

[past sphinx]

a high gravity weapon seems up their alley, Woe flatten be upon yea

[finite compass]

"Archon! The Mon-Keigh are slowly advancing on us! What are your orders!"

"Just stand there and stare at them. That should scare them off."

[past sphinx]

Just a smidgen of blackhole

[wild fog]

Anyway death guard tend to prefer meltas and flamers to heavy bolters and plasma cannons so a bit of a damned-if-you-do

[finite compass]

Which i also always thought was funny

Because the OG excuse for why they didn't have heavy weapons was because they didn't maintain them, because Nurgle.

But then they're running around with Plasma Guns

And can't use, say, missile launchers

[wild fog]

(Sorry "Bile spewers")

[past sphinx]

Goo guns

[finite compass]

Tox Flamer

[thin ibex]

I suspect for multi-player pvp it wouldn't make any sense to have legion faithful loadouts and playstyles and resilience across the board

[wild fog]

Right and frankly--pvp is going to be an afterthought

[past sphinx]

Given how successful marine 1 mp was?

[thin ibex]

It probably wouldn't be all that fun in play to be slow as fuck

[past sphinx]

Probably not

[wild fog]

Was is that successful? It felt pretty shallow when i played it

[past sphinx]

Space marine was a budget title that well outlived itself in its muliplayer

It was cheap and easy to get

And went on sale on the 360 store semi often

[wild fog]

Sure the game did great I just don't remember people sticking around for pvp specifically

[tardy vault]

I mean, the list of games that allow you to play PvP as a space marine is:
Space Marine

Not exactly spoiled for choices

[solemn gull]

There is another

[past sphinx]

it was a major selling point for space marine 1's release

[wild fog]

Oh there WAS another

[solemn gull]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-star-wars-gif-8063259

[wild fog]

It uhh did not do great!

[past sphinx]

re-release*

[wild fog]

God I'm trying to remember the name of it. It was like... a game that copied Space Marine's homework but did it badly

There it is! Eternal Crusade!

[floral herald]

Tactical's hat is having the widest weapon choice variety

There's a bunch of tactical only weapons like the heavy bolt rifle and such and they get most of the special weapons

[solemn gull]

I actually quite liked it

[floral herald]

I played a fuck load of SM1 PvP

It was a lot of fun, kinda janky but there wasn't really anything else like it

Lordy there were some annoying fucking weapons though

[past sphinx]

god i wanted it to suceed

im convinced theres another timeline where they underpromised and over delivered instead of the otherway around

[wild fog]

I just want more Warhammer games that let you like, actually play as Xenos.

[floral herald]

Lascannon, hammer, plasma cannon, melta gun

[wild fog]

Outside of RTS titles.

[floral herald]

I'm probably missing a few

Weapon balance was pretty good in that everything could piss you off

[past sphinx]

hello it me the 100% balanced dreadnought dlc

[thin ibex]

late to it, but yeah, sm1's multiplayer was excellent imo

and outlived the general fanbase for the single player by a decent amount

arguably kept the game alive for a bit

i started out as an assault marine player

but somehow i became a frequent tac marine player

[wintry mist]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

[thin ibex]

constantly ran bolt pistol and knife successfully

[wintry mist]

can we get a Firewarrior remake

[wild fog]

With the original voice acting.

[wintry mist]

or reboot, rather

[wild fog]

I want it to sound as weird as it did back then.

[thin ibex]

i want a firewarrior redo by the same guys who did titanfall 2's campaign

[floral herald]

The Knoife was really surprisingly viable

[wintry mist]

yeah smthn like that#

[wild fog]

'Why is the lasgun such a better weapon than EVERY Tau weapon?' just Firewarrior things

[floral herald]

It helped that you could Halo shotty people with the meltagun

[thin ibex]

I treasured how it wasn't an afterthought tbh!

[wintry mist]

actually crazy how fucking cracked out the tau are

"waa waa the tau win too often in the lore" motherfucker they would

[thin ibex]

the tac marine ended up being hte one, who woulda thunk it, able to adapt to their opponent most readily

[wintry mist]

the leman russ has RIVETS

[thin ibex]

rather than impressing their specialization

[wintry mist]

Imperial dog! Your tank has fucking rivets!

[tardy vault]

They're the only ones that haven't drunk the Grimdark Koolaid

And it turns out just shooting the screaming dude with a sword is pretty effective

and you have to fight less if you let people surrender

[finite compass]

maybe it's from reading the Black Legion books again, but Chaos perspective would be interesting. >_>

[thin ibex]

well not that effective, the universe has forcibly adjusted them a bit, creating things like the stormsurge and taunar, which somewhat go against their battlefield tactics

[floral herald]

I liked the Kraken Tactical

[wintry mist]

those are all just ways at shooting at lunatics with swords

[floral herald]

It was like the most vanilla build imaginable but also you could just beat anyone at any range if you played it right

[wild fog]

Man I'm fairly convinced GW resents the Tau being as popular as they are considering the level of support they've had creataively and model-wise

[finite compass]

My typical PVE loadout in 1 was storm bolter and meltagun

[thin ibex]

slow moving, less mobile, weapons platforms with no easy way to relocate

[floral herald]

I usually played assault marine in the PvE

[thin ibex]

Honestly i dont think i agree that gw resents the tau

[floral herald]

I forget what I used though

[thin ibex]

they're a xeno's faction, they dont get love like the rest of the xeno factions

not especially so

the DE gets less than they do pretty much

[wintry mist]

not everything goes according to plan but the tau follow the Actual, real life tactic of Manuever Warfare and dont dig motherfucking trenches

[finite compass]

Tau get more love than Leagues

[thin ibex]

GW just doesn't support xeno's in general much, rather than a specific resentment for tau imo

[wild fog]

Okay that much is true. Leagues of Votann, OOF

[past sphinx]

the Zoat get more love than LoV

[wintry mist]

the LoV released to little fanfare

I wont lie I didn't know they dropped until a year after release

[past sphinx]

they got the most fanfare

because they where cracked as shit lmao

absolutely dogshit codex

so busted it got balance slated before it even released

[floral herald]

Tbf space marines do maneuver warfare with knightly characteristics

[desert jay]

That's only really if you paid attention to competitive, otherwise you might've missed it

[wild fog]

Just over here waiting for just a crumb of Votann lore

[wintry mist]

there is an average of like .3 marines per warzone

[desert jay]

Or if you played in a group with someone who played LOV and running over everyone else

B/c IIRC they needed a post-release nerf too

[past sphinx]

it was so fucking bad GW released a "oh shit oh fuck we are so fucking sorry" video

[floral herald]

Yeah the average combatant in 40k sees a space marine between 0 and 1 times ever

Since either they're not there or you're one of the galaxies minimally lucky people and like 100 show and do impossible odds all over you

[wintry mist]

honestly... space marines aren't even that crazy

the tau are lacking in ATGMs tbh tbh

ATAM

hold on

AAGM

Anti Astartes Guided Missile

[past sphinx]

ion cannon go brr

or the shotgun

shotgun one taps marines

right through like butter

[solemn gull]

GW should take the White Wolf approach and just throw out a million visual novels

[wintry mist]

its the other way around I'm pretty sure

[past sphinx]

if only they deserved as merciful a death as getting shutdown by Paradox

[wintry mist]

WW is taking the GW approach and throwing out as many games as possible

it's just uh

the only games WW can afford to make are VNs

and bloodlines 2

but we all know how that's gonna turn out

[thin ibex]

the main thing is that instead of squad level anti armor assets, fire warriors are meant to be connected to the battlenet, to call in the kind of support they need as they need it

they dont want to be carrying all the extra hardware

[wintry mist]

so is like, a US rifleman in theory

but like

when there is a space marine drop pod that just squished your friends 200 meters away

you dont want that AT in 5 minutes

[thin ibex]

well, going by their og designer, like a US future warfare soldier circa desert storm

[wintry mist]

you want that AT in 5 seconds

[thin ibex]

You probably also dont want to have all your squads carrying the anti astartes weapon for the 0.01% chance they ever see one

[past sphinx]

pathfinders baby!

fuck them tanks

[wintry mist]

pretty sure they only ever lose to the imperium because of the astartes

[thin ibex]

frankly, tau pulse rifles do pretty well against astartes anywhere

They also lose to imperium because of titans

[wintry mist]

dont remind me

[past sphinx]

Damocles gulf both agrees and disagrees

but those books exist before the imperium had thermals

[thin ibex]

they also lose to imperium because they are always always always outnumbered by the imperium

[wintry mist]

a force like the tau shouldn't lose because they are outnumbered imo

[thin ibex]

any force sufficiently outnumbered will lose

[past sphinx]

Woe unto your modern military, take 7 months of saturation bombardment

[wintry mist]

I guess it is a matter of how many, and we can't use real life as an example because irl armies have never been as outnumbered as the Tau

[tardy vault]

Yeah, unfortunately there comes a point where enough Guard artillery just removes the tech and doctrine advantage

[past sphinx]

imperium also likes nukes

they might not admit it

[wintry mist]

true

[past sphinx]

but they do love some atomics

the full list of every crackpot fulda gap theory in one fighting force

[thin ibex]

I do also think that despite its many many failings, the imperium can be proficient in war, and its soldiers generally well disciplined

[floral herald]

The other tricky thing about Space Marines is that they're pretty much the only Imperial faction which also has a battlenet

[past sphinx]

Chicken powered nuclear AT mines

[floral herald]

Stodes do but they're basically a rounding error in the galaxy

So we've seen that the Tau can potentially match Space Marine forces but they need time and they need to develop the scale of the battle

[thin ibex]

effectively the anti astartes strategy built by the fire warriors was the absolute incredible feat of Farsight reverse engineering the Codex Astartes via battle recordings

[floral herald]

The Imperial Armor book which has it has some good interplay between them

[wintry mist]

of course it can be

[thin ibex]

yeah i agree, its generally that tau are at a disadvantage to space marines via the marines general use of force multipliers, with time to develop the field they're roughly matched tactically

[wintry mist]

any army can theoretically be proficient in war

the imperium will never be though

because fascists suck at war

[thin ibex]

i dont think the imperiums proficiency at war is defined by their ideological bent

point and case they're not gone as of yet

despite the active self sabotage for 10k years

[wintry mist]

the imperium's doctrine and belief system is actively it's worst enemy

the self sabotage is the result of their ideology

[past sphinx]

and the genestealers!

[solemn gull]

I mean the major component is their bureaucracy

[past sphinx]

just regular ol sabotage

[thin ibex]

what im saying is that their self sabotage has not stopped them from being successful in war

[solemn gull]

Like terra will only notice a planet is being attacked 80 years too late

[wintry mist]

their success in war is on account of just having enough shit to blow people up and not have to think about it

they literally banned combined arms

[solemn gull]

Their enemies have the same amount of shit I think

At least chaos has the same amount fighting the imperium as the imperium has fighting chaos

[wintry mist]

not even close

chaos does not equal the imperium in numbers

[floral herald]

It's kinda tricky, but these days its pretty close yeah

[wintry mist]

unless u mean literal actual chaos

[solemn gull]

All of the chaos forces

[floral herald]

Since Abaddon et al controls a ton of industry in the Imperium Nihilus and the Legions are really large

But this is a new development

[wintry mist]

in which case their literal insanity is their worse enemy

I would not trust a chaos NCO as far as I can throw them

I know NCO is a strange word to use but like yknow

squad leader etc

[solemn gull]

And meta wise the imperium is fighting everyone but everyone isn’t fighting itself because they always need the imperium to fight someone

[past sphinx]

blood pact is a stable fighting force

that like holds actual territory

[solemn gull]

When is the last time that orks fougjt tau?

[wintry mist]

blood pact is a small part of chaos though

[wintry mist]

that is farsight's whole thing

[floral herald]

Yeah I think like AoO Farsight

[solemn gull]

The blood pact is small but they aren’t special for their stability I think they are dime a dozen but they got a lot of appearances and fan love

Well maybe special for tactical khorne

[past sphinx]

their the standard for "chaos army that isnt just mindless horde"

[wintry mist]

Khorne is tactical for sure

that's like his whole thing actually

[past sphinx]

eh

[wintry mist]

if ur good at war, khorne loves you

tactical people are good at war

[floral herald]

This is one of those funny stats I like to trot out because it sounds insane but the Black Legion (probably) has more space marines than the Blood Pact has members

[past sphinx]

blood seems like a higher priority

[wintry mist]

thats fucking insane

blood pact are still more succesful than abaddon

[past sphinx]

the legion is fucking massive, its got goddamn titans

when the pact breaks a planet call me

[floral herald]

The Black Legion is just huge (albeit not well centralized) and the Pact is not that big (and had a big recruitment pinch for a while)

[past sphinx]

ripped the whole got dang galaxy in half

real professionals

[pale narwhal]

Blood Pact just aren’t on the same scale as the Black Legion. Destroying Cadia is more than the blood pact have done

[wintry mist]

cyclonic torpedoes are a dime a dozen

[thin ibex]

Also on the topic of tactics, if you HAVE the resources, throwing people into the grinder is an effective tactic, bottom line

[wintry mist]

they could if they wanted to

[thin ibex]

Its easy to say it takes no thought or whatever

[floral herald]

Also for actual numbers there's iirc about 750k Blood Pacters and the Black Legion is, depending on source somewhere in the ballpark of 800k-1.2 mil astartes

[thin ibex]

but its an application of your capabilities

[past sphinx]

lmao

[floral herald]

I suspect no one has an exact figure for em since they're currently pretty spread out and most of them aren't Census Enjoyers

[thin ibex]

When the bigger stronger guy, uses his bigness and strongness to overwhelm a smaller foe, he is successful in employing a tactic that wins the fight.

[wintry mist]

where did all these astartes come from

[floral herald]

Space marine factory

[past sphinx]

their homemade

[wintry mist]

does the black legion have a more efficient space marine production system than the imperium

actually dont answer that

the answer is probably yes

[past sphinx]

they have infinite time

ish

[floral herald]

Most of the legions retain shockingly robust internal recruitment and also use stolen GS and time travel to boost their numbers

[wintry mist]

oh

[desert jay]

And also mad science

[wintry mist]

the time travel part makes it far less impressive

failbaddon once again

[thin ibex]

the black legion absorbed a BUNCH of other legion members iirc, and then also legions were just huge back then, and then mad science, and then time travel

[pale narwhal]

Yeah the legions are fucking nuts actually

[floral herald]

It's not a major factor but you can run into paradoxically duplicated warbands in the EoT

[uneven ember]

I also think that Abby had this whole spiel about how his recruiting is even more inefficient than the Loyalists' tho

[past sphinx]

its all a bit wibbly in there

[uneven ember]

like he's gonna be even more pointlessly wastful in paring down the aspirants

[floral herald]

I think in terms of burnout rate it is yeah

[thin ibex]

pretty sure a lot of renegades become black legion after the fact

[desert jay]

Abby also has to deal with all the various chaos warbands being a little... chaotic

[floral herald]

The funny one for me is that the World Eaters are backed by an extraordinarily skilled and put upon Apothecary corps who somehow manage to replace the horrible losses the WE recreationally suffer and do downers all the time to stave off the nails

[past sphinx]

The legion is pretty chocked up with madmen and the delusional. plenty of ten thousand year veterans of terra are only a few hundred years through the door

[thin ibex]

i always figure that WE have relatively small numbers amongst the legions

because of how self destructive they are

[floral herald]

They are relatively small yeah

[past sphinx]

lotta generally khorne marines probably fall into the WE

end up with the red paint and get nominated

[floral herald]

The list for size is IIRC

• Black Legion
• power gap
• word bearers
• Death Guard or Iron Warriors
• NL or Alpha Legion
• shattered legions (not sure of their sizes)

[past sphinx]

are you gonna double check the shoulder pad of the red mad man running at you

[floral herald]

And I really have no idea where the Emperor's Children stand now

[tardy vault]

Honestly, the complete lack of info on the Emperor's Children is really weird

[past sphinx]

their mostly hanging out with dad no?

[thin ibex]

if you count cultists, word bearers outnumber i think'

[desert jay]

Shattered Legions?

[floral herald]

World Eaters and Emperor's Children

Since they fucking wrecked each other in like M34 and haven't been unified fighting forces since

[past sphinx]

every man who believes the emperor is a god rests amoung their number god bless em

[desert jay]

Ah, then also don't forget TSons somewhere

[past sphinx]

do they even rate on the board?

[floral herald]

Oh yeah they're... small

[thin ibex]

all 50 of them

[floral herald]

I think they might be officially the smallest

I forget if their codex makes that explicit

[past sphinx]

50 dudes and 3000 tzangors

[floral herald]

I know that their diminished size and extremely bad recruiting issues are part of the justification for them extensively using chaos allies like tzaangors

[past sphinx]

they would also get bullied by the other legions for knowing how to read

[wintry mist]

I remember me and my friend reading through the 40k wiki (a healthy serving of salt) on the leman russ and we came to the conclusion that if the US Army were to fight an equally sized guard army the US Army would probably win

This was also his first major exposure to 40k

[paper bluff]

In it for the love of the game and violence

[wintry mist]

"It has fucking rivets!" Has become an inside joke

[paper bluff]

Also cramming demons in people

[past sphinx]

The leman russ is built for energy weapon hits

hard to weld something built out of anti laser bullshit

[wintry mist]

Isn't it ceramite

[past sphinx]

heavily depends

[wintry mist]

Also modern armour is made out of composite armour utilising ceramic materials

Modern armour is not riveted

[past sphinx]

can they stop a las cannon?

or plasma cannon

[wintry mist]

I mean I would assume if you used the same materials on a modern tank, it would do better than a leman russ at it

[past sphinx]

thats a hell of a lot of assuming for a plasma cannon

or a las cannon

[wintry mist]

But yea an M1 Abrams would be slaughtered by like an executioner

Or any of the actually dangerous leman russ variants

[past sphinx]

APDS would absolutely fuck a leman or a malcador

they only have like 150mm of armor

[wintry mist]

But the Leman Russ has a stop speed of...

Top speed*

20mph-40mph

Depending on author

[past sphinx]

thats what happens when you put tracks on a woodfired oven

[wintry mist]

Also we decided to compare the baneblade

Baneblade is a lot like the maus

Really easy to bomb

[paper bluff]

Put Jugen behind them

[past sphinx]

nonsense the maus wasnt a scout tank at all!

[thin ibex]

lets be real, thats not even the issue with the bb or a titan

the physics of such machines dont work

[paper bluff]

And then know speed

[wintry mist]

Well sure

But thats boring

They're still useless even if the physics work

[desert jay]

Oh hey almost forgot about the NOVA preview show

[floral herald]

One of the turbonerd websites did an excruciatingly in depth analysis of the Imperial Guard and I think the rough place they landed (for normal vaguely cadian-like forces) is that they're similar to the Korean War era US army but with really really big yields on the guns

[wintry mist]

Yea

Their artillery has awful range

No guided munitions either

[past sphinx]

pretty mid stormcast reveals 😦

[floral herald]

EG the Lasgun is basically a space garand but it shoots like the equivalent of .650 nitro

[past sphinx]

CHAOS DWARFS HOWEVER

[wintry mist]

The earthshaker has a range of smthn like 15km

Which is tiny

[thin ibex]

they've got rocket arty too, but i suspect they dont have much more range

[past sphinx]

god i love chorfs

[paper bluff]

The whole point of the gaurd is that it isn't compare-able number

[wintry mist]

(There is modern artillery with ranges reaching like 45km)

[thin ibex]

the irony is having literal giant spacecraft with big lasers to support form the navy

[paper bluff]

Same and I hope they're in AOS somewhere

[wintry mist]

Yeah thats why it's so fun

[thin ibex]

I suspect the imperium beats modern military on the virtue of having enough people that if we shot every shot we had and got a kill with every one, they'd still have more people

[past sphinx]

Lord relictor is just a fucking bladeguard ancient from a few years back i cannot be swayed on this

[wintry mist]

Yeah

[floral herald]

This is I think one of those 40kwikiisms

I'll see if I can pull the original quote

[wintry mist]

Millions of dead guardsmen means millions of captured lasguns

[paper bluff]

Yep.

[paper bluff]

So shit, who else but chaos would use em?

[past sphinx]

the sheer moral losses for a modern army to fight an entire endless force of zealots

[wintry mist]

The US Army would eat it's billion dollar right foot for the lasgun

[floral herald]

Here we go, there's the source quote (siege of vraks page 116)

[paper bluff]

Oh right, the morale question. The infinite unknowable resource

[floral herald]

The range is some ambiguous amount more than 15 km

[desert jay]

Ah, Astra Militarum coming in the new year w/ DKOK release(s?)

[tardy vault]

Oh that would be nice

[wintry mist]

Ok "over 15km" is like 15.4 or smthn

[tardy vault]

I would love to start a Guard army

[past sphinx]

who knows could be 300 kms

[paper bluff]

Yeah. I mean reload a dead pack by chucking in a fire? Yah

[floral herald]

But its basically a very heavy space M777 with a smaller gunner crew (lol) and super explosives

[wintry mist]

Me personally that does not give it free reign to have an effective range of 700km

[floral herald]

Ok?? No one was saying that though

[paper bluff]

How much money do you have?

[past sphinx]

god and man have not been able to find a way to stop me from having terrible ideas

[floral herald]

It's really hard to have a nice conversation here if you're gonna assume the worst of everyone

[tardy vault]

I'm working on Daughters of Khaine until I get a new job

[wintry mist]

Yea no for sure

[desert jay]

I missed the vid reveal but the article is up and they look good to me

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/29/nova-open-preview-new-stormcast-eternals-arrive-in-a-flash-of-thunder/

[tardy vault]

They're good sculpts

[past sphinx]

i think perhaps i just had my expectations set to high by the incredible releases theyve had earlier in the year

big griffon goes hard

[wintry mist]

I just think them saying "over 15km" just to cover their bases is funny

[desert jay]

Also I think Iridan is the first they/them named char model from GW

[tardy vault]

but, like, it's more Stormcast Eternals

[wintry mist]

I just realised does the math add up with that weight and muzzle velocity

[wintry mist]

I would hope so

[past sphinx]

do dark admech

7 parts per 3 point model

tech thralls are a fuckin bane

a curse

[floral herald]

I'm not very interested in continuing this conversation at this point.

[wintry mist]

Sorry

[paper bluff]

Mmmm i feel the Chaplin conversions already

[floral herald]

You could probably just... sneak that in without conversation haha

[desert jay]

Maybe swap the hammer's head and the banner

[paper bluff]

Banner is good

[floral herald]

Oh I didn't notice the hood variant

[desert jay]

Oh it's great but it's way more Stormcast than it is Imperial

[wintry mist]

Give it another skull on top with some wings maybe and the banner is good to go tbh

[past sphinx]

thats just the stormcast bladegaurd ancient!

with a chaplain helmet and chest!

do like the bastard though

[wintry mist]

That is a really cool model

[paper bluff]

Yep

[floral herald]

Oh man that one's also sick

I hadn't seen that at all somehow

[past sphinx]

banners are typically trash in tenth

[paper bluff]

Where's the meme for "please brother, may I have some inspiration?" To thw AOS pig

[past sphinx]

they really hammered away the aura buffs this time around

[desert jay]

Yeah all the sternguard and bladeguard models are great IMO

[floral herald]

Chaos icons are pretty good but not usually banners

oh man

that wasn't a real KT reveal haha

I was hoping against hope that there'd be some kind of second hint

[past sphinx]

lotta "hey look at this stuff we did" this go around

[floral herald]

I missed the AoS and 40k stuff anyway haha

[past sphinx]

aww its lotr

[desert jay]

40K didn't have any models, just a roadmap

[floral herald]

Oh shoot I was hoping for a shot of the new DKOK

[rocky shale]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/29/warhammer-nova-preview-warhammer-40000-roadmap-revealed/

Aeldari next year wooooo

Updated aspect warriors also confirmed

[desert jay]

Wait, just IK mentioned and not CK?

[bold halo]

YES

aspect warrior time

[floral herald]

love to get special chaos treats

I wonder which ones will get new sculpts

[desert jay]

Oh hey, and for DKOK they say new kits plural

[rocky shale]

Honestly they might just do all the finecast ones

That's what like 4 kits?

[floral herald]

watch it be Shawks, Fragons, Shadow Spectres, and Ebon Talons

[bold halo]

god I hope so, all of those kits are over 20 years old

[desert jay]

Yeah likely but AIUI that'd still be welcome

[rocky shale]

I guess that's ignoring PLs

I'd be specters go to legends and we see most of the finecast range get updated

Hawks could be a kill team

[bold halo]

reapers, banshees, scorpions all have newer kits, dire avengers are old but fine, but hawks, spiders, dragons are all ANCIENT

[dense sedge]

that was dissapointing

[bold halo]

would be cool to see a plastic shadow spectre kit

[dense sedge]

didn't even get actual roadmaps, which is what I was tuning in for

[floral herald]

I'm just making a joke about Warp Spiders somehow getting passed over

I'm not sure if they're the oldest sculpt though

[desert jay]

Oh I'm not crazy, they didn't mention IK in the interview portion, but did in the article

[paper bluff]

I don't even know what that could be with imperial knights

[desert jay]

IK finally get some of their own cannon fodder foot soldiers

And I know some people are all "oh Knights should just be big mechs, nothing smaller than an Armiger" but they're wrong

Because the big mechs should have little guys standing next to them for scale

[floral herald]

I heard that IK and CK were gonna get a combined book

[desert jay]

Ye they said that in 2023

But if that's true it's odd not seeing CK on the roadmap

[thin ibex]

They really wanted, in 10th i think, and in 9th, to reduce the amount of aura stacking deathstars as a strat

[floral herald]

Yeah I would have expected it to say "knights" if that was true

[rocky shale]

It would be funny if CK was th extra chaos stuff

[thin ibex]

its pretty normal for ik to have house troops right? they just dont usually sortie with the knights?

[rocky shale]

My guess would be Hawks kill team, spiders + dragons + asurmen, fuegan, maybe new spiders PL as new releases and they forget about karandras

[thin ibex]

shining spears KT, they dont get to stay on the board xD

[bold halo]

I would shit

I love warp spiders, their whole vibe is great but their minis are oooooooold

[floral herald]

You will use the 31 year old sculpts (had to look it up)

(Or they will be 31 when the codex is out anyway)

[thin ibex]

the aspect shrines are so cool

but also

train for 1k years, get killed by a scared teenager with a lasgun

[floral herald]

I think usually its the other way around

But I think maybe the most one sided is every time the nids show up with their "legit born 10 minutes ago" killers

[desert jay]

Yeah, Guard train their whole life, get killed by a reservist who practices their shuriken cannon every other weekend

[rocky shale]

The aspects get done pretty dirty in tabletop

They're like mildly elite infantry

[thin ibex]

eldar are meant to be kind of an elite army generally right?

[cosmic tulip]

OH SHIT

YES YES YES YES

ENBY PEAK

[rocky shale]

Fairly, but a lot of thier units got bad index stats and have been reduced in points quite a bit

[thin ibex]

i like the ork thing with eldar too; train all your life for your perfect path of the warrior, the ork wasnt even trying to shoot the gun much less hit you?

[rocky shale]

Banshees are what like 15ppm now?

[bold halo]

the eldar fantasy is like, you have a swiss army knife roster of hyperspecialists that are incredible at one very specific narrow role and terrible at everything else

how well that plays out varies

[thin ibex]

incidentally, banshees should be as good as bladeguard vets imo

if not better

and cost to reflect that

while scorpions should prolly be like, i dunno, matched up to khorne zerkers prolly?

[rocky shale]

Fire dragons, spiders, hawks, dark reapers and DAs all sorta live up to the fantasy

Scorpions are good but only because they're nearly the same cost as rangers, so they are more infiltrating chaff

Banshees just can't kill things in melee or survive the swingback

Shining spears... Yeah

[bold halo]

yeah

[desert jay]

Also wow it's kinda wild that the last "full" codices for 40k this year are/were GSC and SOB in June

[bold halo]

scorpions are supposed to be the infiltrators that go through light infantry like a blender, banshees are supposed to be the hot knife through heavy infantry's butter, both are ehh at it

[rocky shale]

Agents is a full codex, just not a great one lol

[thin ibex]

shining spears i dont NECESSARILY hate them not being able to pop vehicles easy peasy, none of the jetbikers can still do that

its just that the anti elite infantry role isnt quite so applicable as a niche that needs filling

[desert jay]

Eh, sorta but I don't really wanna count it b/c most players are using it as a supplement

[thin ibex]

its not really an army release, its a "you can use all the misc stuff you have as an army now" thing

[rocky shale]

It's trying so hard to be a real army they just forgot to give it a real vehicle

[unreal cosmos]

perpetuating the stereotype of nonbinary people having magic flaming axes smh

[thin ibex]

it does got the corvus blackstar

which is a cool vehicle

[rocky shale]

That's the only non-dedicated transport vehicle, and it's still a transport lmao

I love my imperial weirdos but I would also like one tank

[thin ibex]

tbf a land raider is a tank and also a transport

[past sphinx]

an anti titan tank transport

[rocky shale]

I'd take a land raider tbh

[desert jay]

Also even if you include Agents and BA, that last one's out on Sept 7

[floral herald]

Weren't those both pretty good?

[desert jay]

Yeah I just mean all the codex releases packed into the first half of the year

[floral herald]

I forget how the GSC one was received

Ah yeah fair

[desert jay]

Actually wow, six of them were all in Q2 (Ork, Custodes, Tau, CSM, SOB, GSC)

[floral herald]

I didn't realize how fast those all came out

[plucky token]

for a while it felt like we were getting a couple new ones every other month to me, haha

[floral herald]

It was kinda overwhelming

I still wanna get some SoB

[past sphinx]

having now seen the new angron in the flesh he seems

smaller than i reckoned

hes like a thick belakor

[thin ibex]

how i kinda feel about ghaz lol

ghaz feels like he should be bigger prolly

considering all the warring hes been doing

but also i guess hes kind of mostly just a head now

unless there are organic elements in his cybork body

[past sphinx]

hes nice a chonk tho

i was mentally comparing him to morty and he just looks small

[thin ibex]

Silly knights list, 2 valiants, 2 crusaders, that's it

Hmm, want to make a ghaz list but there aren't a lot of ways to make it interesting

[thin ibex]

Ultimately you kinda just want him and the biggest mob of guys to slam into something

[soft willow]

I am really tempted now.

[jaunty dawn]

yesssssssssssss

hope the barding is at least partially removable

cause I wanna convert some of these into vanguard palladors

though Id be surprised if it was tbf

does this mean seperate releases for the wyrdhollow warbands or that stormcoven is being released minis only as part of the stormcast range

cause the latter would be kinda weird considering all the underworlds warbands became legends this edition

darkoath spearhead sounds awesome

idk how much the emphasis on spearhead in the roadmap was planned but Im glad theyre at the very least recognising how well its been received

seems like the nighthaunt + gloomspite being first was mostly right, with StD sneaking in ahead of them

griffon characters were cool af

sad to not see another winged character but there is one that was revealed before at least

I hope Iridan is just enby and not like

'oh theyve forgetten their gender'

they actually do have a unique chestplate; instead of the abs or boob-shelf, they've got a like pointed out one

which is nice

the generic lord vigilant on morgryph shares it but thats model making for you

lord vigilant on gryph stalker has the abs chest plate though, so it is specific and new to the model

kinda funny how the only cure to reforging that was found was euthenasia

funny sad

the variety in memorians is dope but they're so tempting to convert into chaos cultists haha

these roadmaps feel kinda pathetic tbh

but maybe they don't want a repeat of the heresy one

[tired cairn]

Too bad Combat Patrol wasn't as good as spearhead sounds

[jaunty dawn]

mm

I think aos is more suitable

but also just like

there's so much more actual game design in making it ork

*ork

*work

and like tbf they had like a year post reaction to combat patrol which is fair enough but also the aos team are just like. consistenly better so

[jaunty dawn]

think the best way to convert vanguard is gonna be to get a few cheap stormstrike chariot sprues off ebay. which also gives a few bows which I wanted so

[fervent coral]

so the nova preview was a disappointment or am I the only one

[jaunty dawn]

no I'd agree overall

mostly cause the roadmaps are not very enlightening

when the announcement was essentially "this preview show is 75% roadmaps"

[fervent coral]

i feel like "here is a vague stuff of what we're doing, and here are some minis. that's all folks, we don't know either so the roadmap is just "soon ™️"

[jaunty dawn]

something more like the previous heresy roadmap with quarters is more expected

but ppl got mad abt that whenever anything was late so

[fervent coral]

i'm not even mad, i'm like
okay, whatever

i just hope that my space dwarfs got the second wave of minis

[jaunty dawn]

this guy is pretty cool, from the combat patrol announce

but is basically just a repose

kinda wild? do they replace a unit from the base patrol or something

[fervent coral]

wh+ subscription?

[jaunty dawn]

oh no it's a new magazine one

combat patrol magazine

[south axle]

UK Exclusive tho D:

[jaunty dawn]

kinda wild value cause each issue that comes ith models is like £9 for £30 ish of models

[fervent coral]

wow

the brits are at it again

[jaunty dawn]

riiip

[fervent coral]

well to be fair i haven't touched warhammer as a hobby for a while, just im in for the lore, but the current prices man

[jaunty dawn]

being in the uk definitely helps

[fervent coral]

i'm not in the uk, and apparently italy has a hate boner for the uk because importing from it it's more costly than anywhere else

like I ordered some stuff from the troll trader and the courier asked me almost the same price I payed

[jaunty dawn]

sorry yeah I meant more recognising how lucky I am comparatively

n yeah brexit Sucks

at least probably something to do with that

[fervent coral]

probably

[wintry mist]

I think we need female space marines but in a way that they all just look like beefy muscly dudes when they end up becoming space marines anyway

"Why would you do this? Why would you leave your family to die trying to become an Astartes?"
"Top... surgery..."

[jaunty dawn]

they could do nothing and just change the offhand mention of 'needing male biology' to 'superhuman hrt made to make you in the image of male demigods'

the only thing that would make chuds even madder about female space marines is "ugly" female space marines lol

[fervent coral]

I think we need female space marines but in a way that they all just look like beefy muscly dudes when they end up becoming space marines anyway so we can have more boobs in the game

tbf I was eating popcorn when the community literally tore apart at the mention of a female custodes, but a female space marine it's feasible, it might even already be a thing, astartes go onto so many procedures that in the end they become men, basically transitioning

[wintry mist]

yea

[fervent coral]

i watched an hilarious video about this, where the custodes did not get that his parter was a girl
"HELLO INQUISITION? I THINK I HAVE A MUTANT HERE, A HUMAN WITHOUT A DONG"

wait let me see if I can find it

https://youtu.be/CJcZgdZEq0M

[wintry mist]

dread anon spotted

engaging kill protocols

[fervent coral]

why

[solemn gull]

Beats the same dead horse as every other 40k meme person

[balmy wave]

7 Stormcast Eternals units and a faction terrain were revealed last night:
3 of the units were all new, the ones on birdy boys
2 of the units are resculpts of first-gen Stormcast
2 of the units are resculpts of Vermindoom Stormcast

[jaunty dawn]

that seems about right

I am a bit sad it's so hero-focused

only one new unit and a multipart of a vermindtide unit

[balmy wave]

Adding all the other stuff we got in the reveals, in their next battletome Stormcast will have:
8 all new units, 7 of whom are Ruination chamber, of which 2 are also named characters
6 updated sculpts, 3 of which have been transferred to the Ruination chambers

No we got 3 new units last night

Named character, generic character from the same kit, and a Warrior Chamber cavalry

[jaunty dawn]

I mean unit like

Unit

as opposed to singleton

[balmy wave]

Oh

Right

[jaunty dawn]

now that I've looked closer at warrior palladors I'm confused againnn why are there two different designs called gryph chargers

at least it cements the chariot as the outlier

I think weird horse bird hybrid is probably cooler overall than gryph lion

[balmy wave]

Wingless hippogriff rather than wingless gryphon

[jaunty dawn]

maybe lion gryph-chargers are the equivalent of pugs lmao

oh, I guess I could get a box of vg palladors, convert one into a lord aquilor and then put the other two on a chariot

I just like thunderstrike armourrr

[balmy wave]

It's genuinely so solid

The proportions are great

[jaunty dawn]

it's so fun to paint

oh oh holup

yndrasta with a bow...

like holding it drawn but pointed down

HM

there might also bea suitable pose in the vigilor set, and from what I can tell you get a ton of spare bows there

[jaunty dawn]

spicy

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah my go-to head canon is any Space Marine model can be a fem marine.

They're like Discworld dwarfs. But also every now and then you get an outwardly femme one.

[pine matrix]

CHAOS DWARF BLOOD BOWL LET'S GOO

[unreal cosmos]

Adore the "hol' on a sec" one

[thin ibex]

I do think that the only thing that would really change with fem marines would be head options maybe. Usually I'd say I expect them to be just as bionic, scrungly, scarred up etc, but also recent art direction often has space marines with unblemished features and some kind of hair style

Rather than frequently a practical bald

[tired cairn]

I guess crossing the rubicon allows a space marine to be beautiful

[past sphinx]

rubicon gives you access to dental

[thin ibex]

i do still think the average space marine should be fucked up by their years of warfare; with exception maybe to blood angels due to their vampire themes, they should be pretty marines but also weirdly pale

And space wolves should be fucked up, just + beard and braids

[pulsar cairn]

why do they have goblins? i thought they hated em

[thin ibex]

chorfs have gobbos as slaves iirc

[thin ibex]

is a daemon prince generally below a greater daemon in rank?>

or does it depend on the prince?

[jaunty dawn]

generally, probably ye

but it does depend on the greater daemon and the prince yeah

Exalted is a rank abover greater sometimes

[thin ibex]

i figure exalted sort of communicates the increased favor from their god for the time being?

like a daemon who has their gods specific attention atm

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[past sphinx]

his name is panasonic prince of bass

[balmy wave]

It really depends

The exalted greater daemons are generally direct lieutenants of their gods, but daemon princes can (depending on favour and personal power) be placed in command of even them