Warhammer and Such

[upper canopy]

You signed a thing

At some point

[desert jay]

Someone offered you a coin and you said okay (wait no that's the navy)

[bright dove]

Well, the problem is as such: Part of a planet's tithe is generally soldiers.

That's not a choice that's offered to a planet.

Part of your taxes is people.

[desert jay]

I mean that sort of tithe could be in transfers from PDF (who are staying home) to the Militarum (who get offworld deployments)

[tired cairn]

It is hypothetically possible to get enough volunteers for a tithe if you sell it right

There is probably at least one planet in the Imperium that does this

[desert jay]

Also yeah

[upper canopy]

Yes

A lot of them

[bright dove]

But yeah. The point is that this sort of social engineering is... Not what Space Marines do

With a very few exceptions.

[upper canopy]

Because the military is one of the only ways to get anything in life

[desert jay]

And/or turns out the recruitment bonuses to the recruits are cheaper than the equivalent in monetary tithe

[tired cairn]

Probably not that hard to sell it. I don't think you are likely to have those people get back and tell bad stories 🙃

[uneven ember]

we've all seen Nice Marines right?

[tired cairn]

Nice Marines is great

[bright dove]

Also, the number is fun for how much a planet has to give.

"A part of the annual tithe that Imperial Governors must fulfil is to send one tenth of their overall fighting force, or more if the Departmento Munitorum deems it necessary"

The good news: With the way travel works out, you probably won't have to give a tenth of your fighting force every year.

[tired cairn]

"I don't get it. Why is the standing army of this world so small"

[desert jay]

Ah yeah so "10% of the PDF get sent offworld"

[bright dove]

The bad news: There is definitely back taxes that hit some planets.

"Oh hey, you haven't paid the tithe in 10 years."

[tired cairn]

"You owe us 300% of your fighting force, plus interest"

[desert jay]

It could just be 10% of recruitment and not 10% of everyone currently in the force every time you count

[uneven ember]

"You are free to file for appeal your case for review."

[desert jay]

Though even then, 30 years of back tax means 3 full years of sending 100% of your recruits

[tired cairn]

The governor will probably be dead before that's sorted out. So sounds like a great option for them

[bright dove]

And that's just if you're not near an active warzone.

[desert jay]

(And also 40% in the fourth year, because those years need paying for too)

[tired cairn]

there are planets not near an active warzone?

[desert jay]

"Near" is relative

[bright dove]

So yeah

There's definitely cases in the Imperium where a planet has to go "We need to make tithe. Gather people up and force them to join."

God, this also leads to the fun statement from DH 1e about the Calixis sector.

Most planets have to strike a careful balance of "Enough guns to arm enough of their population to resist invasion" vs. "Not enough guns in dissident hands so a Planetary Governor doesn't get overthrown."

[uneven ember]

it's a valid concern!

[bright dove]

Indeed!

[tired cairn]

... I wonder how many PDF forces are coup-proofed to uselessness

[bright dove]

More than a few probably.

Like, it's enough that CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM tends to look down at the PDF forces he's sent to work with.

[upper canopy]

The thing is that if you send shit guard regiments

You die

So you kinda have to send Your Best Dudes

Unless you are able to be corrupt

[uneven ember]

https://x.com/lord_carmi/status/1821598032955371594

LordCarmi (@lord_carmi) on X

Wh40K Citizens of the Imperium series
𝗠𝗮𝗴𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗘𝗱𝗴𝗲𝘄𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗵
#WarhammerCommunity #characterdesign #illustration #warhammer40000 #digitalart #conceptart #scifi

Twitter · Aug 8, 2024, 5:23 PM

[verbal ermine]

EDGEWORTH???

was looking at the pic thinking "Huh that looks like him" without reading the text

[solemn gull]

Phoenix Wright would solve every case in the imperium if he was an inquisitor

[jaunty dawn]

the new van saar sniper model gets away with it cause it's explicitly doing the like

piping optics into a helmet thing

but I wish citadel wasn't so allergic to making models that are actually looking down their sights

[past sphinx]

Stancing up just isn't a very dynamic pose

You could even say its intentionally undynamic

[jaunty dawn]

but they have stanced up

they just have stanced up holding the gun to the side of your eyeline

[paper bluff]

Plus, think about how ridiculous the average 40k gun is

And necrons and orks don't need to do that

Well more the orks don't care to. Ork shooting is always "to whom is concerns"

[soft willow]

It skipped the Knight sized one, what's that one?

[paper bluff]

reply all:

[raw vessel]

@ everyone

[finite compass]

BRRRRRRRRRRT

[upper bluff]

Isn't the guard one literally the same as the titan one?

Like I love the fact that the baneblade chassis is that big

[thin ibex]

guard best faction for mass brrrt

[finite compass]

Yes, they're both Vulcan Mega-Bolters

TBF, a good chunk of the Shadowsword-Chassis weaponry are basically a Titan weapon on treads.

[paper bluff]

I wonder if the scout titan weapon and bane blade chassis overlap is one of the reasons for the "the bane blade is a DAoT scout tank"

[thin ibex]

im a bit sad that the plasma blastgun one isn't great

was one of my favs

narratively a poor man's anti titan

[finite compass]

The BRRRRT one is my favorite

Mostly because it's also a troop transport

Also a superheavy that makes sense for Catachans

[soft willow]

Mega-bolter party bus.

[quaint compass]

Suprised it has space to store troops when it needs space for MORE BOLTS

[soft willow]

Most imperial tanks are bigger on the inside, how else do you get ten space marines in a Rhino?

[finite compass]

Somehow that thing can carry 40 dudes

[quaint compass]

Troops are a liquid, as they conform to the container they're put in

[untold swallow]

I have finally decided what my homebrew chapter's name is

The Blades Contemplative

[past sphinx]

Sounds like an absolutely intolerable minor side adversary in a guard book, its perfect

[untold swallow]

lmao

They're a Dark Angels successor as well

[thin ibex]

space marines stack horizontally in the rhino

or maybe the power armor works like samus' power suit and lets you roll into a ball

[spice flicker]

Going for an armored division for a crusade and I was curious which of these would you guys suggest building towards at 2000 pts?

A) a handful of infantry squads footslogging alongside a mix of nine tanks (6 lemans and 3 hellhounds) and three hydras.

B) a handful of infantry squads with transports (3 chimera/2 taurox) alongside 7 tanks (4 lemans/3 hellhounds) and a pair of hydras.

I know armored divisions are typically primarily tanks but what do you think?

[thin ibex]

i think if youre rolling armor, you should have A; but im a huge fan of B as a mechanized one

id favor cadians to get sticky objectiveo on your handful of infantry

altneratively catachans are great screening infantry

[spice flicker]

For b I was thinking of having cadians in the taurox and lascannon infantry in the Chimera due to firing deck

[thin ibex]

no plans for a rogal dorn?

[spice flicker]

Battles progress at 250 pt intervals and wasn't sure where to fit one in

Starring at 750 pts

Initial 750 pt list is:
Tank commander
Commissar
Castellan

Las cannon infantry squad
Las cannon infantry squad

3x hellhounds, Inferno cannon, multi-melta

So thoughts regarding progression?

[thin ibex]

hmm, why 3 hellhounds pray tell?

[spice flicker]

tanks with both good flamers and multi-meltas for their cost. They also don't particularly care for orders and can help start me early on having a tank centric force with more board presence before I can invest in more lemans

[thin ibex]

mm i can see that

im surprised no techpriest early

if you dropped commissar and 1 hh and got one hydra, do you have enough spare points for a tech priest?

[spice flicker]

With the current plotting of progression the engineseer would be added between 1250 and 1500 mark.

750-1000: standard Leman russ+chimera
1k-1.25k: standard leman+cadians
1.25k-1.5k: engineseer+taurox+standard Leman russ
1.5k-1.75k: 2 hydra+chimera
1.75k-2k: cadian squad+infantry squad+chimera+taurox

This is if I go with B which is focused on tanks+transports

For A which is just focus on tanks with footslogging infantry:

750-1k: Leman russ bt+hydra
1k-1.25k: Leman russ bt+cadians
1.25k-1.5k: Leman russ bt+hydra
1.5k-1.75k: Leman russ vanquisher+hydra
1.75k-2k: Leman russ vanquisher+Leman russ vanquisher+ catachans (replacing one infantry squad.)

Thoughts and suggestions on progression ?

[untold swallow]

-STANDARD BATTLECRY OF THE BLADES CONTEMPLATIVE```

[unreal cosmos]

Sounds like an interesting bunch

[untold swallow]

DAngels successor that revere Malcador as an Imperial Saint

[paper bluff]

Could it be "For the Hero. For he on Terra. For Sundered caliban"

[untold swallow]

First chapter-master was one of Malcador's hand-picked to be part of the Knights-Errant who was remanded back to his parent Legion, the Dark Angels, post-Heresy

[paper bluff]

Also could the planet they're on be named Sycorax?

Fleet commmder with a rank of "Tempest Master"

[untold swallow]

I feel you are trying to make a reference lmao

[jaunty dawn]

shakespeare

[untold swallow]

GOD DAMN IT

XD

[paper bluff]

Yep lol

[untold swallow]

In all seriousness though I feel like 'the hero' is too generic a name for a battle cry that's intending specifically to reference Malcador

[pastel rampart]

"For the dad who stepped up" would be the funnier option

Daemon Prince is done.

[solemn gull]

that face is so cool

I mean your technique on the sword is really good but damn that is a silly face

[floral herald]

Ooh I really like the effect for the wings

[pastel rampart]

Wings were super easy. Yellow-orange, then Bloodletter Glaze. That was it.

And yeah the face is silly but that's why I like it so much. Classic daemon princes have this goofy charm.

Also he's hilariously small, just barely above 3" tall.

[floral herald]

Wow

[pastel rampart]

I think even the 3e 40k daemon prince was taller. Probably not by much, but still.

[rocky shale]

Pour one out for 2W, 2OC inquisitorial henchmen

They've been halved

[floral herald]

Those MFs were 2 wound on the TT?

[bright dove]

Those wings are rad.

[rocky shale]

Yeah they were awesome

2W with 10 models, -1 to wound and 6+ invuln with an inquisitor or something like that

They also lost jokaero and daemon host as part of the unit, which was a lot of offense

[balmy wave]

Wait what?

They took the goddamn monke?

[rocky shale]

Yep

All my apes gone

[jaunty dawn]

fucked up

[balmy wave]

Truly

[spice flicker]

Yeah deathwatch got dragged through the mud and placed in an even sadder spot than before from what I heard.

[untold swallow]

hm

How boned am I with a fairly melee-focused Space Marines list?

Tho

Hm

Actually on pure numbers of models its split more evenly

[floral herald]

Not boned

It’s not meta but fuck the meta

[untold swallow]

lol

[floral herald]

Meta is tank spam

Or was at least

[untold swallow]

yeah I'm making a DAngels successor I want my robed knights with swords

[desert jay]

I think Dangles have some good melee units ye

[floral herald]

They do but a lot of the unique ones are termies

DWK are good again aiui

And ICC are finally not overcosted

[untold swallow]

ICC?

oh inner circle

Yeah I have both of those in the list lol

[floral herald]

Inner Circle Companions yeah

[desert jay]

It's not great! Lost all but 4 DW datasheets (2 characters, 1 squad, 1 transport), and if you wanna run the detach you lost OOM, the 2 favorite enhancements got replaced, at least one strat got nerfed, and of course can't run SM codex units

If you wanna run it with SM codex, again you're down to 4 datasheets, and the corvus blackstar counts as one of your two retinue units and only transports the DW squad

[floral herald]

How the top 1 army of prerelease 10e has fallen

[spice flicker]

I thought DW was interesting before but now they just feel sad to look at.

[thin ibex]

army building with dw was kind of a dead end tbh

some variation of mass infantry or mechanized infantry with the same set of squads

[rocky shale]

OK yeah so henchmen were 2W, and up to 16 models with. With an inquisitor they got -1 to be wounded, 5++, +1 to wound on ranged. They also had 2 heavy weapons and a daemonhost with an S9 attack.

So like 32W T3, 5++, - 1 to wound which is just brutal to try and churn through

Now theyre 10 models, 10 wounds, - 1 to be wounded, T3, 5+, 6++ with 2 heavy weapons

[untold swallow]

This is maybe a dumb question

Can you attach a leader unit to a scout squad?

[desert jay]

Captain in Phobos Armor

[untold swallow]

Thanks

[floral herald]

@thin ibex I think I may be too busy for kill team today - but we should schedule that match soon!

[thin ibex]

def

[past sphinx]

I'm entering pre dataslate stodes doomposting on imperial agents

[floral herald]

I'm still on my banger codex high from CSM

It's so good

Meaningful rebalancing, a billion good detachments

[past sphinx]

Workin on my nightlords roght now

[balmy wave]

CSM best codex this edition and it's not even close

[past sphinx]

Codex so dope I actually got started on em

[desert jay]

If you were planning on playing agents as primary and not as allies I think it actually looks worse than the unpatched Custodes codex

Allies still probably gonna be fine

[finite compass]

You know what I've decided I really dislike this edition

BS being tied to weapon and not the model firing it.

[rocky shale]

Same

[rocky shale]

I almost got lured into like a 4th army by that codex but then I painted a couple of the csm models I had lying around and the trim immediately turned me off of it

Anything smaller than chaos knight trim and I go insane

Vashtorrs detachment is so cool

[finite compass]

I'm doing Word Bearers

But even though the color scheme would drive me literally insane

I sort of want to paint up a squad of Sons of Malice

[untold swallow]

Tryna calculate how to achieve an amount of transports that matches my amount of units lmao

[untold swallow]

I have diddly done it

[untold swallow]

2000 Points
Captain (100pts): Adept of the Codex, Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Bolt Rifle, Melee Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Bolt Rifle, Master-crafted Power Weapon
Captain in Gravis Armour (110pts): Fire Discipline, Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle and Master-crafted Power Weapon, Master-crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle, Master-crafted Power Weapon
Judiciar (85pts): Absolver Bolt Pistol, Executioner Relic Blade, The Honour Vehement
Librarian in Terminator Armour (75pts): Force Weapon, Smite, Warlord, Combi-weapon
Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (70pts): Combi-weapon, Paired Combat Blades

5x Heavy Intercessor Squad (100pts)

4x Company Heroes (95pts)
5x Deathwing Knights (235pts)
6x Inner Circle Companions (180pts)
Nephilim Jetfighter (195pts): Armoured hull, Blacksword missiles, Twin heavy bolter, Avenger mega bolter
Nephilim Jetfighter (195pts): Armoured hull, Blacksword missiles, Twin heavy bolter, Avenger mega bolter
Stormraven Gunship (280pts): Armoured Hull, 2x Stormstrike Missiles, Twin Assault Cannon, Typhoon Missile Launcher
Stormraven Gunship (280pts): Armoured Hull, 2x Stormstrike Missiles, Twin Assault Cannon, Typhoon Missile Launcher```

[floral herald]

What does this mean? Are there romances?

[bold halo]

you don't kiss your battle brothers good night?

[upper canopy]

Shadowheart is there

[thin ibex]

also you can just dome your battle brothers

immediately

[thin ibex]

Ironically a lot of people liked this change, as AoS was already doing it iirc?

[floral herald]

This would be extremely funny

[untold swallow]

God I forgot even the normal termie librarians are cursed to have the stupid wrist-mounted bolters

pain

[past sphinx]

its the darksouls of BG3

skyrim with bolters

[floral herald]

It’s not REAL BG3 until I can accidentally talk my way into a sec scene with the battle bros which didn’t really sound like it was gonna be one from the option preview

[paper bluff]

I thought on it more. How abouts "For the Hero turned to ash, For He on Eternal Terra, For Sundered Caliban!" Ash Gold sundered

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/warhammer/status/1821899674741084438

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUjTIpPa8AMZDPP?format=jpg&name=medium Bring this back you bastards

[floral herald]

I'm stoked for thos arcane ruins

[pastel rampart]

Saaaaame

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUi6F70WEAAnf_X?format=jpg&name=900x900 or THIS

[floral herald]

oh yes

[pastel rampart]

I'd kill for the temple of skulls.

[dense sedge]

I remember that, a friend of ours had it

[junior summit]

idly thinking: how would you represent Imperial knights in kill team?

One Armigier is already too much

[dense sedge]

you kinda can't since it's an infantry spec ops format

[runic swallow]

Roll for random locations for a massive chainsword to punch through a wall

[soft willow]

I am all for a single armiger kill team.

[untold swallow]

Make a Tempestus faction that fights alongside knights in the full game but does spec ops by themselves in KT

(This is what I did)

[soft willow]

More realistically you’d have some kind of house troops yeah.

[untold swallow]

I made fucking space Bretonnia, s'great

man

I used to really dislike Gravis armor

But now I love it lol

How much do I care about Deathwing Knights...

[finite compass]

I want the oldschool Necromunda card terrain. >_>

[floral herald]

Ok so nontraditional but - a “recover Knight Pilot” mission

[untold swallow]

Is there a particular reason Librarians can't attach to bladeguard?

[finite compass]

Use IG Vets, Tempestus Scions, or Skitarii and call them Household Guard?

[tired cairn]

A variant of Cyan's, but a kill team that is a knight pilot plus the extraction team. They are doing kill team stuff because they are stuck behind enemy lines (pilot got overly aggressive lol)

[untold swallow]

I am naming all my Character units in this army after gay catholics

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-aTGUztvWj/?igsh=MTV6ejgzN3RzMzdmZg==

arealitydeviant

#jcb #votann #warhammer #kitbash

Likes

444

Instagram

votann spoder tank votann spider tank

[quaint compass]

SPANK SPANK SPANK

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/roguecaliber/status/1821923985774326128?s=46&t=-vu8LSzJNUA5VX5XKgW82w

[solemn gull]

Blood Bowl larp is amazing

[onyx elm]

Are there well moderated Discord servers out there for Wrath & Glory games? I'm still leery about talking 40k with anyone outside of Pilot.net.

[ebon forge]

I would love to play Wrath & Glory, sadly my group are not 40k fans ;w;

[still warren]

I need to know if this was just flag football or if they had to roll for every move

[pastel rampart]

Full contact or bust, that's the Bloodbowl way.

https://tenor.com/view/blood-bowl-halfling-throw-gif-13836368

[onyx elm]

Wrath & Glory is fun, but it can quickly make it players overpowered I feel.

[dense sedge]

And it begins

[solemn gull]

Isn’t there an official one?

[dense sedge]

Skaven won to no one’s surprise

Clan moulder stuff is neat, I like freaks

I wish gsc got more stuff like that

That was disappointing, quite short and just Skaven

[upper canopy]

I mean yeah Skaven won

it's gonna just be skaven

[floral herald]

Made some bad choices today

My LGS had a bunch of stuff 50% off

[still warren]

did they say when they would be showing off the upcoming skaven models?

[floral herald]

I have a skaventide box now tho

[still warren]

oh never they have them all in an article

[pulsar cairn]

What do you think a skaven would do if turned said skaven into a human or an ogre

[still warren]

oh yeah that's what these freaks should look like

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/10/the-slaughter-at-hel-crown-global-campaign-the-winner-revealed/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WH_10th_August_Hel_Crown_&utm_content=&utm_term=

new globadiers look great as well

[pulsar cairn]

Balls

[dense sedge]

We all know that feeling

[floral herald]

At least they were 50% off bad choices

[dense sedge]

I need to not boy things u yup what I have is finished

Or at least significantly reduced

[floral herald]

lol yeah

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/OculusImperia/status/1822313381123997765

[still warren]

yo they gave the little dude horns

[jaunty dawn]

kinda disappointed to not see any pestilens or eshin stuff

but I guess skryre needed it even more

they still had random blister pack models

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/10/critical-transmission-incoming-from-the-chalnath-expanse/ I kinda doubt it but it would be kinda fun if the whole season is just flying stuff

it would also be kinda fun if they made a tyranid kill team ever but yknow who's counting

[still warren]

hoping stormcast will be getting some weird models, come on lighting geists

[jaunty dawn]

I hope they make a new knight venator

or at least some kind of angelos character

thunderstrike gryph charger cavalry would be cool too, I'm bothered by the design differences between the chariot and the others

[past sphinx]

Reckon these would work as obliterators?

[floral herald]

What's the base size?

[past sphinx]

60mm

I think I might be able to squeeze them onto 40s

[floral herald]

I think they look pretty good

[untold swallow]

I have the perfect amount of transport space for my units

But I have 55 leftover points

pain

[floral herald]

This is normally what random 10 model cultist blocks are for

[past sphinx]

IF THERE IS ONE ELYSIAN LEFT IT IS ME

IF THERE ARR NO ELYSIANS I AM DEAD

IF THERE ARE 10 THOUSAND ELYSIANS I AM AMONG THEM

[untold swallow]

But then they don't fit on my ships and I'm sad

XD

[floral herald]

I think these might be scions tho

[floral herald]

Cultists can't get inexplicably ripped riding

[cosmic tulip]

I want the tau to win

imperium sucks

I’ll get Elysians to convert into guevesa lmao

[untold swallow]

?

[past sphinx]

Sorry but the godhead came to me in a dream and told me the funny helmets are back

[floral herald]

I think its funny how the chaos cultists who are all like marginalized imperial citizens eating corpse starch and rats have huge biceps and such

[past sphinx]

New scions would bang tho

[floral herald]

So the joke is that they gotta footslog to get that exercise

[untold swallow]

Ah lmao

[past sphinx]

Why scions didn't get packaged into IA is beyond me given they are basically the old stormtroopers replacement

[floral herald]

Honestly yeah they're practically a shoe-in for the faction

[untold swallow]

I'm 10 points short of just having a footslog scout squad x3

[tired cairn]

I think the answer is because the codex isn't very good >.>

[cosmic tulip]

The sucky thing is like

I love the guard asthetic and stuff

[past sphinx]

Gw forgot about them luke everyone else did

[cosmic tulip]

But I can’t get out of the “I hate fascists” mindset

[tired cairn]

I am very disappointed that three of the detachments abilities apply to a very limited selection of units

[cosmic tulip]

I’d love to get some to kitbash but I’m more drawn to AoS atm

[past sphinx]

The allies army having an extremely limited roster is very funny

The powers of the inquisitorial seal whittled down to 6 guys and the spare keys to a surplus chimera

[tired cairn]

If you are playing guard, fascists are definitely dying :V

[cosmic tulip]

Heh

[solemn gull]

Give them plasma guns and overcharge them

[past sphinx]

I speak for the emperor himself! And thus I can requisition this used 2002 Toyota corrola!

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408609553597464579/1271890226846896210/GUowRizWkAARf82.png?ex=66b8fb94&is=66b7aa14&hm=6b3649833ba1e4545280fa79311e21caa786a335f906c06b20ae086bba25305d&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408609553597464579/1271890225970413640/GUoxB0MWEAEpoAU.png?ex=66b8fb94&is=66b7aa14&hm=3c861bf903f75e20dbeccc722d01d5a6090ca3c46bad89c9075085b026af8015&

[floral herald]

I think the Imperial Guard is actually at least partially the least fashy part of the imperium. There's a very proletarian streak in the non-commissarial parts of the faction which is just normal people with basic equipment and training taking on the worst of a hostile universe

https://x.com/open_sketchbook/status/1616451647185776640

Erika Chappell 🏳️‍⚧️ Professional Simpsonsologist (@open_sketchbook...

something something as 40k got more fashy the guard lost their proletarian spirit as normal people surviving a hostile universe with equipment and training, to become a faceless horde with fifteen minute lifespans whose disregard for death is treated as a triumph of the will

Twitter · Jan 20, 2023, 3:04 PM

I like this thread on it

[cosmic tulip]

That’s an interesting observation

[finite compass]

Depending on the subfaction, of course.

[floral herald]

Yeah its pretty different based on regiment in terms of aesthetics

This is a way easier argument to make with Cadians or Elysians than Death Korps

[finite compass]

I will admit to having an intense dislike for Krieg that is entirely due to the memes and fandom. Which is annoying, because they have a great schtick.

[cosmic tulip]

Idk my enjoyment of 40k is waning and I want to enjoy it

[finite compass]

When it should be like they're a perfect encapsulation of the Imperium weaponizing history and religious fervor to create an entire society with a martyr complex to be fed endlessly into the meat grinder.

[pastel rampart]

The weird popularity of Death Korps has seemingly blanketed a lot of the IG with that whole "we're disposable meat" when that's...kinda not the case!

[floral herald]

Yeah - like speaking for mod stuff the big "red flags" we look out for when evaluating accounts with 40k signifiers are Krieg, Black Templars, and Blood Pact stuff for figuring out if someone is saying something off color or actually a chud

[cosmic tulip]

But I can’t because of.. all that plus memes

[finite compass]

And when it ends up being LOL FUNNY GASMASK NOISES HIT HERETIC WITH SHOVEL KILL COMMISSAR WHEN HE SUGGESTS WE RETREAT (Also paint them in SS camo because of course)

[floral herald]

If I wind up with the Krieg Vetguard kit I'm painting them in early WW1 French colors

[floral herald]

YESS

[tired cairn]

I find the common confusion between WWI and WWII Germans very annoying

[floral herald]

Krieg are a WW1 melange as well

[finite compass]

Apart from the name the onyl thing German about the Krieg is part of the helmet design

[floral herald]

They wear adrian helms and such

[finite compass]

Helmets are a mix of German and French

[tired cairn]

That looks sick

[finite compass]

Uniforms are French

[floral herald]

yeah

[finite compass]

Gasmasks are British

[cosmic tulip]

I wanna enjoy 40k but like

I can’t

[finite compass]

This is why my favorite guard regiment

[floral herald]

I enjoy 40k via real life stuff and here

[finite compass]

And I must say my SUPERIOR guard regiment

[floral herald]

I don't love the online community in general

[finite compass]

Is the 80s action/Vietnam War Movie pastiche in Space

[floral herald]

I hope we get new Catachan soon

[finite compass]

Same

Or as I like to put it

[floral herald]

I think the basic dudes are on the same sculpts as when I started playing in 4e

[finite compass]

Cadia gets invaded by Chaos. Planet explodes.

Catachan gets invaded by Chaos. The invasion force is eaten by the wildlife before most of the defenders even notice.

[tired cairn]

Tbf, Cadia was invaded thirteen times

[finite compass]

Still

Invading Catachan is like the in-universe getting into a land war in Asia

[pastel rampart]

Their plastic kit came out in 3rd and a lot of their metal specialist models were 2e.

[floral herald]

Lordy yep its the same one

[finite compass]

A few are later

The heavy weapons and HQ

But still

I miss having a lot of regiment options

Nowadays everything's just Cadians

[pastel rampart]

That's a common complaint from a friend of mine that like yeah, the newer plastic kits are visually better but they lack a lot of the modularity of earlier kits.

[finite compass]

This is a problem across the entire range

All the monopose crap makes kitbashing a nightmare

[floral herald]

I can't complain too much because I love the new cadian sculpts

But also I'd like more options for the guard for sure

[pastel rampart]

Like, an example: chaos warriors.

[finite compass]

The cynic in me says this is deliberate because they want you to buy more boxes instead of splcing your own

[pastel rampart]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LTwAAOSwnTBkrUAT/s-l1200.webp This has some options and is visually nice but they all have the same pose, more or less.

[floral herald]

I honestly don't really think so

[finite compass]

Which doesn't make sense because you'd have to buy the kitbash parts anyway, but that's GW execs for you

[floral herald]

Maybe I'm just lucky but I can cross-kit most of my chaos space marines

[finite compass]

I mean that IS the reason they killed a bunch of the AoS factions

[pastel rampart]

https://www.coolminiornot.com/filestorage/images/o/c51ce410c124a10e0db5e4b97fc2af39/5f0f5e5f33945135b874349cfbed4fb9.jpg Previous plastic kit, goofy but each part is separate. Legs, torso, head, arms. Very modular. Visually not as good but you get more room to play with.

[floral herald]

I've got some hybrid dudes mixing parts from Havocs and Chosen and Legionary boxes

[finite compass]

Because they were gonna release them for OW and didn't want to have an army that could be used to two games

Also while the new stuff is super detailed, it's also harder to paint

[floral herald]

But also I think the CSM range might just be unusually good for this since basically everyone in power armor is cross-compatible

I've got extra chosen I'm just making from the bits of other kits

[solemn gull]

These are the best looking krieg I have ever seen

[cosmic tulip]

I will say

The aos stuff seems leagues more creative than 40k at times

[floral herald]

The red pants also do a great job breaking up the real dark colors the models tend to be dominated by for those sculpts

[pastel rampart]

I'm in agreement with Cyan that I don't think it's intentional for this reason, but rather that they've been steadily streamlining what options each unit has because for decades they were carrying over all these weird-ass options from really old models.

[finite compass]

That's another thing I'm kind of bummed about TBH

The move towards "Any unit option is exactly what's in the box, no more, no less"

[floral herald]

I don't think there's a "seems" haha, AoS sculpts are absolutely sicko mode and I think a lot of it is because they're untethered from the decades of aesthetic history 40k or WHF has

[finite compass]

And less the old 3rd idea of "Some of these don't have models but that's okay because we want you to convert your own"

[floral herald]

god yes its really annoying for chosen and termies for me

Where they just have bewildering equipment selection

[pastel rampart]

Like as an example: las/plas predator. One of the first options for that tank. They carried that shit over for a long time even if it was very suboptimal and rarely taken, but they sure made a model for it and gosh darn it they're gonna keep it.

[cosmic tulip]

Oh there is one final thing that kinda irritates me about 40k

Homebrewing and making your own dudes seems easier in aos

[finite compass]

Eh.

[floral herald]

I haven't noticed much of a difference

[cosmic tulip]

I’ve personally got a lot of backlash from 40k fans online

[finite compass]

Depends on what you mean, I guess?

[cosmic tulip]

But it depends

I put a lot of queer characters in my 40k

[finite compass]

Yeah, that's just chuds being chuds

[cosmic tulip]

I also made socialist xenophile mechanicus

[floral herald]

Has there been any official Space Marine 2 OST releases yet?

https://youtu.be/LwwO8Nx3XF4
The carnifex fight music in this bangs

[solemn gull]

I find it to be the opposite. You can always just make up a whole planet or system from 40k

[finite compass]

WHF was the hardest, at least for some factions

Like Empire

Because every province and major city already had an official color scheme

[cosmic tulip]

My most common complaint I’ve gotten is “these factions are too nice. They don’t work in universe”

[finite compass]

Ah yes. The Tau complaint

My answer would be it's a big galaxy

You can get away with all sorts of shit, even if it's only temporary.

Of course this being the Imperium 'temporary' could last for centuries

[floral herald]

I've been working on my custom black legion warband's lore and its been fun

Since you just get to make the most awful guys and then when revising make them worse

[finite compass]

As a Word Bearers player

To put a meme in text.

[floral herald]

Oh yeah lol, Word Bearers to to field the guy personally responsible for like half the bad shit in 40k

[finite compass]

Imperial Players: "We're the bad guys." "Noooooo! We only do what we have to to survive! It's all justified!"

Chaos Players: "We're the bad guys." "Lol yes."

[floral herald]

Erebus has personally victimized so much of the galaxy directly or indirectly

[finite compass]

Horus was the first to rebel. The Word Bearers were the first to fall.

And I love their reasons for doing so, honestly.

[floral herald]

I love how he (the death and the end spoilers) ||Kills Loken and ensures Abaddon doesn't recant chaos adding length to obscure||

[finite compass]

Because it's insane troll logic, but it's perfectly in-character and in keeping with their whole mindset and belief structure

"Gods exist. We know gods exist. The man who we thought was a god rejected us, so we went searching for the truth. We found it.

Gods exit. They exist and they are horrible beyond our darkest fears.

But they exist.

Therefore, worship them."

[floral herald]

Chaos is the one true answer

[finite compass]

The voice acting for that game lives rent-free in my head

"Sanity...Is for the weak!"

I'm also slowly trying to start a traitor guard/cultist contingent

Even with lack of any real LatD/Renegades and Heretics rules

To be completely honest, I find them to be the far more compelling Chaos faction rather than the Astartes

[past sphinx]

Oh shit traitor guard actually have a kit now

Truely an age of wonders

[untold swallow]

dark angels bulwark got me salivating

Or wait is that a Salamander?

He's talking about flames a lot lmao

[floral herald]

I think the shield guy is DA

[jaunty dawn]

oblitd are on 50mm bases

[pastel rampart]

I was gonna play Space Marine 1 as a lead-up to SM2 because hey, I'd never actually played it

Realized I don't own it, somehow

And see that shit is going for $60 when it came out in 2011 and, well, fuck alla that.

[jaunty dawn]

wild

it was free one weekend

[pastel rampart]

Augh, free to keep?

[jaunty dawn]

yuuup

[pastel rampart]

Fuck

I bet my stupid ass saw it and went "oh I already own it 🙃 "

[tired cairn]

It'll probably go on sale closer to when the sequel comes out

[pastel rampart]

Probably, but it better be at the like $15 or under range. No way a game that old is worth anything higher, sorry.

[floral herald]

Yeah word

It's very dated now

[past sphinx]

Peak 360 shit

[jaunty dawn]

i love space marine even though 90% of what I did was just 1v1 my friend

didnt really get into the story at all or anything

it just feels good to play

[pastel rampart]

funny enough I have a 360 I've never even fired up sitting in my closet, I wonder how much a copy of the disc costs

[unreal cosmos]

Go oooooon

Socialist AdMech is kind of a fascinating concept to me because by default they're deeply feudal but also meritocratic. So it's a heavy deviation but one with a clear entry point.

[finite compass]

By default they're a mystery cult

So that could very easily be "Our gifts are not for outsiders...But once you're in the club, you're in the club."

[untold swallow]

Is there anything that would require serious reflavoring for you to use the Veteran Guardsman kill team rules with non-Krieger minis?

[finite compass]

No

There's nothing exclusively Krieg about the kill team units or options

[past sphinx]

they dont even get to bring a heavy stubber or flamer!

come to think of it the veterns not being grenadiers strikes me as a bit odd as normal veterns get made grenadiers

but thats all just 🤓

[floral herald]

Nothing really, I’ve been looking at making a cadian one

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/DreadAnon/status/1822407691811103077

[past sphinx]

that an impressive scaven voice

[upper canopy]

DreadAnon does it constantly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZq4kmh9ZuQ

[past sphinx]

as a youth i could never have foreseen the future of warhammer memes

[pulsar cairn]

What's slaneesh equivalent to a bloodthirster/lord of change?

[pastel rampart]

Keeper of Secrets.

[pulsar cairn]

Cool!

Not the name i was expecting tho

Doesnt feel very slaneeshy

[pastel rampart]

The term 'Keeper of Secrets' comes from the belief that these daemons can hear anything said anywhere, and they are reputed to offer this knowledge in exchange for gifts and services.

As Slaanesh is big on temptation, it makes sense. Summon a Keeper to try and get knowledge out of it, stay for the sweet temptations of whatever your heart desires.

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbFQ76cC6JY

[untold swallow]

Hmm

What's the most fitting opponent for a bookish Dark Angels successor...

[upper canopy]

A sentient Tzeentchian Planet

[soft willow]

Word bearers led warband that want to tempt them to chaos so keep fucking with them but never destroy them.

[upper canopy]

Khornate Warband that specifically destroys all knowledge repositories and manufacturing bases to regress worlds to a feral level

[soft willow]

The actual Dark Angels who suspect them of heresy

[upper canopy]

Skaven

[soft willow]

All of the above.

[untold swallow]

Word Bearers might work

[untold swallow]

I have a feeling turning Guy From Trailer into a Chaos Lord would be fun

[verbal ermine]

To quote, the squeakquel

I don't even know what a Warhammer Fantasy is

but this is very funny

[pulsar cairn]

True!

[valid brook]

if James Workshop shows me Elysians on Friday, I am going to Lose My Damn Mind

[jaunty dawn]

they're scions

[valid brook]

On the cope big time rn; it’s real, we’re so back

[jaunty dawn]

I wonder if like

foot scions might lose deep strike and become like taurox focused/infiltrators

and then grav chute scions keep deep strike/valkyrie role

[past sphinx]

Pennywen does not believe in the truth of dreams

The herald of the new dawn speaking through the veil of reality to whisper the truth

[junior robin]

suffering from a case of "what traitor legion to go with my hereteks in HH" right now

[cosmic tulip]

GRAV SCIONS

I’m trying so hard to hate them rn

But they’re so cool

If I get both kits and put tau armor on them they’re antifascist

My buddy said tau are just as fascist

I wanna prove him wrong

Scions look so cool why do the bad guys have such drip

[bright dove]

My earnest advice for 40k is that everybody is a bad guy, and you don't have to care.

[jaunty dawn]

even the least charitable read of tau they're still objectively better than the imperium

[cosmic tulip]

I need to play with different people my buddy trash talks me a lot

Idk I made my tau objectively better than the imperium because why not

[floral herald]

I mean that's just baseline

They don't call it "the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable" for nothing lol

[cosmic tulip]

Like

There aren’t any good utopian war games

So I’ll just bend Warhammer into what I wanna see

[floral herald]

I think that's kind of an oxymoron since war is bad

[valid brook]

Yeah, really struggling to think of a wargame setting that could be described as “utopian”

[floral herald]

I guess you could make a case for that star trek fleet battles one maybe

[valid brook]

like, Infinity is “optimistic” in some respects maybe

[floral herald]

Infinity is definitely sort of optimistic yeah

[valid brook]

Joe Schmo PanO has a high quality of life in an inclusive society with a strong social safety net,

[cosmic tulip]

Lancer

[valid brook]

Yeah but Lancer isn’t a wargame, is it

Battlegroup is!

I think a lot of the foundational assumptions of tabletop wargames (ie. “the fiction must justify a state of open warfare between nation-states or their equivalents”) tend to create settings where Life is Bad Generally

[upper canopy]

Also it's not Utopian because Lancer admits that a Utopia is impossible

[bright dove]

To quote one of my players: "Lancer is a couple really good months away from Star Trek, and also a couple really bad months away from the other part of Star Trek"

[valid brook]

Certainly one of the most-fielded questions wrt starting out running Lancer is: “in a post-scarcity society where the Pillars are upheld, where’s the gameable conflict?”

[floral herald]

That's a sussinct way to put it yeah

Though Lance has the sort of unusual thing where there are some really nice parts of it, and when you play Lancer you probably do not interact with those parts

[valid brook]

And the answer is, “a better world” is a verb and you gotta go to where they’re verbing that shit hard af

Ex actly

[bright dove]

That's why I like Wallflower showing a bit of "normalcy" for Evergreen before shit truly hits the fan.

[floral herald]

Yeah

"wargame settings" in particular I think generally wind up kind of grungy because they need to justify conflict between nearly any group of little guys

[bright dove]

Price of doing business in a way, yeah

[valid brook]

“What does a world where everybody fights everybody at the drop of a hat look like?”

It sucks tbh

[upper canopy]

I mean like

I think you can have a setting where it's like

"This WOULD be a Utopia, but hell is an objectively real thing and hates us and is right outside."

[valid brook]

Hmmm!

You could also have a setting where life is objectively pretty good for the average folks but also the major players are constantly doing Cold War deniable small unit door kicking against each other,

(Infinity!)

[floral herald]

I had some prep work done for a sci-fi setting where all the "real sophonts" live in post-scarcity utopia but there's multiple polities and endless self-manufacturing automated warfare is just like a rounding error in their resourcing operations borders and not a big deal

With the PCs are rogue combat drones trying to escape the Total Annihilation part of the galaxy

[valid brook]

“War as Just Doing Business” is a strong thematic angle vice y’know

[cosmic tulip]

It does???

[upper canopy]

Yeah

[cosmic tulip]

I thought the whole thing about the core worlds was that they were a utopia

[floral herald]

It's described as a "Utopian Project" which Union hasn't completed yet

[cosmic tulip]

Oh

But it is completable

[upper canopy]

no

[valid brook]

Well,

[untold swallow]

Are there rules for human elements in T'au armies?

[upper canopy]

"Utopia is work that is never completed and must be worked on forever. But it's worthwhile work."

[floral herald]

Not currently, I think there were some Gue'Vesa rules in the past

[cosmic tulip]

Yes as Gue’vesa (which means human helper)

[valid brook]

there’s definitely a point of infinitely finishing returns on that graph but we must cram ourselves into that corner because it’s better than the alternative

[cosmic tulip]

But not currently

[floral herald]

But they were basically just initiative 3 fire warriors

Their general niche is IIRC that they're greater good fanatics

[untold swallow]

I guess for 10ed I could just

decide a specific pathfinder team is humans

[floral herald]

Yeah that's not a bad idea

Breachers also feel thematically cogent to me

[cosmic tulip]

In lore humans are used as jack of all trades

Often cqc specialist

[upper canopy]

In the Gue'vesa Only War game I ran the Gue'vesa were used as take-and-hold troops

They put them as mechanized infantry who would serve as an anvil to Battlesuits Hammer

[cosmic tulip]

Only war? Is that an rpg?

[floral herald]

Yeah its the Dark Heresy spin off for playing as guardsmen

[cosmic tulip]

also I made all my guevesa nonbinary and date tau because of course

[cosmic tulip]

Hey that’s pretty cool—wait guardsmen

[upper canopy]

@round raft was in it

[cosmic tulip]

Did it take significant conversion to make it work playing tau troops

[upper canopy]

Not particularly

I just gave them access to plasma rifles

And then when we switched to Wrath and Glory I just gave them Tau equipment

including Funny Drones

[cosmic tulip]

I see

[round raft]

voy i swear to god

[upper canopy]

no you don't

[floral herald]

Gue'Vesa are just not very different from guardsmen

Basically you probably have nicer equipment and more reasonable commanders

[cosmic tulip]

I should GM a wrath and glory game and reveal at the last minute sike you’re playing guevesa

My guardsman simp buddy would be PISSED (and whine all the damn time)

[floral herald]

It's pretty easy in W&G

There's a lot of homebrew for the system and a lot of stats for Tau stuff

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1272236809224458544/GUpAenzW0AAbjJB.webp?ex=66ba3e5c&is=66b8ecdc&hm=67a22ffe00e655f567b27e8bccec84d8e8323227bcfe57c348fa4bf639217dbf&

[cosmic tulip]

The hard part is convincing longtime Warhammer players that the tau are actually like

Cool and interesting without making them super grimdark

[junior robin]

not sure if they forgot to fill in the big gaps of the cape or its supposed to look like the 2 squires wear robes in the same color 🤔

[untold swallow]

It's actually even better, they're hiding under his cape

[upper canopy]

yeah

[junior robin]

so its A: the person who built it forgot to fill in the gaps in the cape.

[south axle]

Or the sculptor forgot to add stitches

[pastel rampart]

Stitches would do a lot there, yeah

[jaunty dawn]

you can see the back of the cape is all cut up the same

[floral herald]

I'm confused what's the issue here?

[junior robin]

the bits of cape on the 2 smaller guys are not attached to the main part

[floral herald]

Ah

I think that's a seam in the assembly so yeah some stitching to something to make the gap look more intentional would be good

[junior robin]

I would probably fill it in with green stuff and do a new seam

[floral herald]

Yeah a little green stuff or sprue goo would probably help

[junior robin]

anyway, really hyped for the new skaven, wonder how much bigger they are to the old ones, got a couple of plastic monks I could do into weapon teams

[jaunty dawn]

the gap is way too big to be an assembly artefact imo

especially since there's a decent chance this is a one piece 3d print

[floral herald]

It's not common but there's been some iffy promo model assemblies before

[untold swallow]

Cadre Fireblade (50pts): Close combat weapon, Fireblade pulse rifle
Ethereal (65pts): Honour stave, Warlord, Strategic Conqueror
Firesight Team (95pts): Close combat weapons, Longshot pulse rifles, Pulse pistol, Strike Swiftly

10x Breacher Team (100pts)
10x Strike Team (75pts)
10x Strike Team (75pts)

10x Pathfinder Team (90pts)
6x Stealth Battlesuits (120pts)
3x Broadside Battlesuits (300pts)
Ta'unar Supremacy Armour (790pts): 4x Burst cannon, Crushing feet, 4x Smart missile system, 2x Tri-axis ion cannon, 3 Pulse ordnance drivers, 3x Pulse ordnance driver
Devilfish (85pts): Accelerator burst cannon, Armoured hull, 2 Twin pulse carbines, 2x Twin pulse carbine
Devilfish (85pts): Accelerator burst cannon, Armoured hull, 2x Seeker missile, 2 Smart missile systems, 2x Smart missile system```T'au antagonists for my Space Marine chapter. The breacher and one of the strike teams are gonna be gue'vesa

[uneven ember]

So, personal take: the T'au aren't, like, paragons of virtue but also trying to pretend that they're just as bad as the Imperium is absurd.
They're an expansionist empire that has a whole "all species are equal, but some species are more equal than others" and justifies profiteering self-interest with the promise of a better world exported by force. They're not great guys.
But there also isn't a comparison between them and "hate is holy, knowing things is evil, anything other than the pure human form is deserving of death, planetary populations are enslaved generationally for the crimes of their leadership, jailbreaking your phone is punishable by robo-lobotomy"

[cosmic tulip]

Yeah

[thin ibex]

Late to this but rather than impossible, I always figured that Lancer asserts that utopia is not a static end state, but rather a verb or a thing in the doing. Not a destination but a continuous thing

[cosmic tulip]

Like my friend is aware the imperium sucks and says he likes them because being evil is fun

But my mindset is different

So we clash frequently

I don’t trash talk my opponents though

[uneven ember]

and being less than super grimdark is, IMO, what makes tau interesting in the setting of 40K.
They show up in a SFF setting full of ancient gothic decaying empires and heavy metal nonsense, look at everyone in it, and go "that's... dumb. You're dumb. You should stop doing that."

[thin ibex]

I think playing the badness Olympics in 40k is a bit of a waste of time tbh

[bright dove]

Everyone is losing that Olympics because they exist in the same setting as the Drukhari.

[thin ibex]

Like you don't arrive at some objectively "the most ethical" faction in the setting in a meaningfully distinct way

[cosmic tulip]

It is interesting being the most ethical faction for the tau lol

[bright dove]

Ehhhh

[cosmic tulip]

I just wish my friends didn’t treat it in such a cringe way

[bright dove]

Nobody in 40k is actually ethical is the big thing. Tau are just the least extra about it.

[thin ibex]

Votan are hyper materialist and staunchly traditional and until now have been isolationist.

Tau are a colonial police state that trample the needs of any individual by touting a nebulous greater good, they also embrace hierarchal second class citizenship and engage heavily with propaganda and media control.

Not to mention enforcing a utilitarian caste system that, by many indications, is not necessary

[uneven ember]

Well yeah, that's the point/ joke.
Tau are a mercantile colonial empire in a setting where everyone else is like "THERE IS NO JOY IN LIFE BUT TO DIE IN THE SERVICE OF OUR SOUL-EATING GOD KING"

[past sphinx]

The tau being the British empire is a funny way if thinking about them

[thin ibex]

Which illustrates my point about badness Olympics. "Better" is a nebulous target and at no point means good

[past sphinx]

Yes the horrors but also they shot dead slavery when they found them

[bright dove]

Tau only seem good because we have literal baby-eaters running around in the setting, yeah.

[uneven ember]

Don't they literally have a "Railgun Diplomacy" thing in their last codex?

[past sphinx]

Gunship diplomacy

I believe a literal paraphrase from colonial history

[uneven ember]

Right, that was the real thing, I thought they called the Tau equivalent "Railgun Diplomacy" as a bit.

[cosmic tulip]

Ironically the nicest faction might be the craftworlds

They mostly leave people alone

And have utopian technology that they don’t wanna share

[past sphinx]

10 million dead humans for the life of a single eldar mindset ainr great

[bright dove]

Oh god no, the Craftworlds are bastards

[past sphinx]

Are you on a maiden world?

Straight to the mass grave bucko

[floral herald]

https://fixupx.com/androgynekovt/status/1822447367590662341?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

[thin ibex]

There some amusement in me about Tau insistence on total galactic manifest destiny but also not having particularly good FTL

[floral herald]

In their defense this is a higher regard for human life than the Imperium possesses

[past sphinx]

True true

[bright dove]

The Imperium at least does it for one planet, and not just A Guy. 😛

[upper canopy]

no it doesn't

[past sphinx]

Best ratio for the imperium is 500 thousand to 40 foot of soil

[thin ibex]

Whaaaat, the Imperium has very high regard for human life... as their most plentiful resource to throw at every problem

[upper canopy]

"So I can meet quota and not get killed if I just consign 20 million underhive workers to death by labor? Oh fuck yes, sign me up."

[uneven ember]

that Blackadder bit about map of the latest offensive's gains
"What's the scale, Darling?" "Ah.... one to one, sir. But it's quite detailed!"

[bright dove]

But yeah, the Craftworlders are bastards as well. There's a Deathwatch novel that gets into some real bastard moments for 'em.

[thin ibex]

I think a big thing about Tau getting a better rap despite their not goodness is their cleaner aesthetic and a lack of intense paranoia and self sabotage in the infrastructure of their empire

[floral herald]

One of my favorite grimdark lines is in the repair mission in Darktide where the tech-priest lady notes that the loss of the workers for the factory isn’t a big problem because they can just get some mid-hiver merchants reclassified as expendable labor to refuel them

[bright dove]

I attribute to it being not as extra as most everyone else.

[floral herald]

The tau are also unambiguously better than a lot of the contemporaries

[bright dove]

In a setting with the Orks, the Necrons, the Deldar, they're just... Rampant colonizers.

[thin ibex]

You know, like the administratum intentionally under supplying or redirecting resources away from fighting forces because they are doing too well

[bright dove]

Eldrad doing the math and figuring it was fine to let the last member of Ulthewe's Shining Spears die so they best possible future can come about.

[cosmic tulip]

Eldar are hot though

I play tau and eldar as the least evil factions lmao

Also eldar are just gender

[thin ibex]

Because it's rarely "ah I'm glad these armies we raised are defeating our enemies" its "what if they turned, they are so good that they would be a threat. Let's manufacture the scenario where they die or turn on us"

[floral herald]

Eldrad has always been a stupendous asshole just as a person though

[bright dove]

Eldrad got too big picture.

[floral herald]

He’s not called “the perverse” for nothing

[thin ibex]

When it comes to tau, I still remember how shadowsun burned a hive because of gsc presence, and how I think all of the... 3rd? Or 4th? Sphere of expansion because extremely xenophobic about humans

Eldrad, lore wise, is arguably in the top 5 for psykers in the setting isn't he?

Not for ethics, but just raw capability

[floral herald]

Yeah

Maybe not now but until very recently at least

[thin ibex]

He is/ was effectively THE psyker in the psyker faction

[bright dove]

You have to reach hard to get better than him.

It's, like, Magnus and stuff.

[cosmic tulip]

Idk like

I just don’t identify with the humanity of Warhammer at all

They’re too.. awful.

[granite basin]

part of the thing w 40k is that every faction is on a sliding scale of comically evil. i think that's what makes it inherently funny. just about all of them are fucking horrific to be under and That's The Joke, methinks. not being as openly depraved as the deldar or as proudly theofascistic as the imperium doesn't make you Not Evil in this setting

[uneven ember]

Yeah, like, again
"Rampantly expansionist colonizers with strictly hierarchal and authoritarian society that offers a high standard of living to most of the population as a method of spreading and maintaining influence" is bad but it's also not equivalent to "you get to spend 16 hours a day at the industrial accident factory so that one day the blasphemous existence of anyone who doesn't look like you can be eradicated with fire and steel"

[thin ibex]

I do feel like, lore wise, Tau have moved a bit away from the tactical focus on preservation of the lives of their assets over holding ground, which has mildly irked me

Generally I agree, as far as tau not being "as bad" as the Imperium. I think the Imperium sets a pretty high bar, which is why chaos so often has to be even more comically fucked up by comparison. But I also think the constant pursuit of the "good guys" has really caused a lot of fans to champion Tau as like the saviors of the setting and they're just not that

They're just not the setting good guys despite people wanting/ needing them to be. And I'm a tau player

[floral herald]

I don't think its important to identify with factions in a miniature war game

[bright dove]

I'm a dedicated Khorne player. 😛

[floral herald]

Oh my gosh the Gravis guy can do dark souls rolls

https://youtu.be/ycghO-fRh8g

[bright dove]

KILL MAIM BURN isn't real life goal. I just like rolling lots of dice.

And they look rad.

[floral herald]

I'm actually a little surprised here since I'm so used to the little backstep in space marine 1

I am digging these "threw it on the ground" gaunt executions tho

[upper canopy]

Cyan I need them to add Boltstorm Gauntlets to the Heavy

I need it so bad

[thin ibex]

I wish it was easier to play a dakka list with orks but I guess with a base BS of 5, the amount you need to steroid raw volume of shots or strength or stuff like that might make it skew hard

[floral herald]

Are they not in? I have skipped the "all weapons" videos so far

[thin ibex]

Yeah playing an Aggressor would be amazing

[floral herald]

Oh my gosh this Ultramarine is such a fucking square

You hit the little "thank you" voice line and his ass says "Routine Praise Administered"

[upper canopy]

They are not

the Heavy just has the big guns like multi meltas, heavy bolters, plasma cannons, etc

[floral herald]

I'm stoked for a multi-melta

lmfao sorry to livetweet this but the IG officer yelling "Out emperor sees your sacrifice!" while the AI buddy guardsman runs forward like 30 meters to stab a tyranid warrior with a bayonet was really funny

[uneven ember]

Unrelated but I feel like the inside of an Imperial ship during a battle would be a really cool context for some vignettes.
You have the bridge with the command staff sitting around the tactical display, a little orchestra playing behind them, servants (servitors?) coming around with drinks and hours d'ourves
then cutting to the ratings frantically reloading macro-canons or stoking the plasma boiler
the only officer you see belowdecks is a twelve-year-old midshipman shouting orders at a bunch of grizzled breacher teams preparing to fight off boarders

[solemn gull]

Speaking of the 12 year old, neoptism must be so extreme on a 2k year old ship

[valid brook]

Unironically a scifi take on the Master & Commander movie would be so outrageously my shit

Aubrey & Maturin my beloved

[thin ibex]

Iirc in the lower decks of imperial ships, the mass crews are generational and most live and die on the ship

The ship becomes their whole world pretty much

[solemn gull]

Oh yeah it feels like someone copy-pasted feudal europe into a spaceship

[uneven ember]

+++Abaddon has blown up Cadia+++
+++Only the Imperial Navy stands against him+++

+++Space is now battlefields+++```

[valid brook]

sickos.png

“We will beat to quarters!”

cue Boccherini soundtrack

[uneven ember]

& yeah, there's a thing that the two big sources for the Navy officer corps are Schola Progenium grads and Navy dynasties, with a good bit of rivalry between the two.

[uneven ember]

& I haven't played it yet but I'm told that the Rogue Trader game has an event where you need to intervene in a dispute between rival gunnery clans in your lower decks

[uneven ember]

(I want this to exist now)

[valid brook]

I’m just going to watch the genuine article tbh

Telling on myself here but Golden Age of Sail stories are almost pathologically my shit; love O’Brien’s Aubrey-Maturin stuff, love Hornblower, the 1990 Treasure Island with old Charlton Heston and young Christian Bale is my favorite movie of all time, et c

[uneven ember]

nah it's generally great
Master & Commander should have been a hit, Crowe's said he would've been stoked to have it as a franchise

(honestly "Russel Crowe has a friend" is an underappreciated genre)

[valid brook]

Well, there’s so much material to adapt but also making the first movie a melange of like four different books does make it a bit complicated

Unironically cannot thing of a finer Crowe performance than Lucky Jack Aubrey, he’s absolutely eating

[uneven ember]

Yeah.
Really think he does a good job with taking that old-timey sort of speech he uses so much there ("it makes me feel ever so low") while sounding naturalistic.

[tired cairn]

GW forgot to restrict the Rhino's transport rule to just infantry in the Agents of the Imperium codex. Time to have an entire army in a rhino

[valid brook]

M113 gang rise up

[valid brook]

That really is the emotional climax isn’t it, the argument in the great cabin about flogging.

What a fuckin movie I stg

“You’ve come to the wrong shop if you want anarchy, brother.”

[uneven ember]

That or the second time ashore.
("I just wanted to stretch my legs.")

[valid brook]

“I’ve been around wounds all my life,”
And then he makes those fuckin faces like “oh geez, oh man”

[uneven ember]

so good

does make me think of a (possibly apocryphal) story about someone who was eating breakfast on an aircraft carrier with the XO
and then while he's drinking his coffee, the XO gives an order to alter course three degrees.
Which is just enough to move the sun out of the XO's face.

[valid brook]

Many versions circulate

[uneven ember]

yeah
Which could mean that it's a myth told with many variants, or that there are many examples of the "I do not move, everything else gets to move for my convenience" attitude from the officers that people have told stories about, or both

[valid brook]

Certainly I cannot imagine the XOs who I have known doing that type of shit; I think it’s mostly apocryphal.

It speaks to the same principle as the fable about the carrier battlegroup and the lighthouse

[uneven ember]

it is funny tho

[quaint compass]

they're Elyscions

[pulsar cairn]

[soft willow]

Ten Rhinos in a Rhino.

Ten Rhinos in each of those.

Continue until points are full.

[thin ibex]

its all rhinos

all teh way down

[floral herald]

I’m putting a fortification in that MF

[thin ibex]

each rhino has firing deck, giving its weapons to the next one up, but the last one can only shoot two

[past sphinx]

The us navy and never drag raced

And the rooster tails definitely do not reach over the deck

[jaunty dawn]

who is she!!!

abyssal ferryman??

?

[desert jay]

Imagine if the Rhino transporting wasn't Agents-specific so you could put your guardsmen or w/e in it

And then this error now lets you transport Baneblades and Knights

[uneven ember]

rule update proposal:
Harlequin transports can carry an unlimited number of infantry models.

[pulsar cairn]

if both my fighting style and tech are boring

boring to an ork

would they target me less often when compared to other races?

[thin ibex]

its a toss up

they might target you more because you being boring is insulting

they might target you less because its uninteresting

depends on the ork

or more specifically, depends on who the boss is at teh time

[pulsar cairn]

fair

i assume i would at least be a target for ork debate

as in when they decide if they wanna kurmp the boring git for being boring or go for someone else

[finite compass]

In all likelihood, the boring target is just a brief stopover on the way to someone else

[past sphinx]

SUMP SEA GANG BABY

[finite compass]

The WAAAGH equivalent of stopping the car during a road trip to go to the bathroom and pick up a coffee

[past sphinx]

Floating around on the giant dehumidifier run off

Fighting giant spiders and definitely not warp spawned horrors

[finite compass]

I forget where it was.

But my absolute favorite definition of a WAAAGH I ever read was something like

"Equal parts holy Jihad, mass migration, looting party, and pub crawl."

[past sphinx]

Less violent more intelligent geese

[uneven ember]

Orks are great

[pulsar cairn]

u talking about orks?

[past sphinx]

yes

[uneven ember]

there was one great bit in the Deff Skwadron where Boss Badthug wants to know where his air support is
& it turns out that Karnage Skwadron had bombed his guys by mistake and Headhunter Skwadron wasn't coming because they were thinking of switching sides

[finite compass]

I love Deff Skwadron

[uneven ember]

it's so good
the "80s/90s British b&w short comic" style works so well for it
And the fact that it's ork vs ork warfare makes the whole thing just goofy fun

[paper bluff]

I do love the orks perspective in anything

[tired cairn]

Ah, so all the orks are on the same side then

[floral herald]

Man, space marine 2 coop looks pretty sick

[thin ibex]

im very excited

[floral herald]

me too

[thin ibex]

im gonna be playing a space wolf obviously, or if i can, a wolfspear

and my classes are looking like the vanguard, the bulwark, and the tactical... probably

i mean

im gonna play em all

but im keen on playing a space wolf vanguard

[dense sedge]

yeah it looks quite cool

[floral herald]

I think Assault, heavy and sniper have ironically stood out to me the most

I'm so excited for the power fist

[dense sedge]

heavy, bulwark and assault look neat to me, I like melee and machine guns

[floral herald]

Vanguard is really tempting though

[tardy vault]

We're leaning towards Vanguard

Something about it just has that spice

[dense sedge]

power fist looks like a great anti elite weapon, a bit too little cleave for the hordes of gaunts though

[floral herald]

I like how they can get a melta rifle with all that mobility

[floral herald]

Yeah, its a good niche I think

[tardy vault]

definitely something to equip depending on the rest of the team

The classes that get it do also get excellent horde clear options

(Thunder Hammer and Power Sword IIRC)

[soft willow]

Bulwark, Heavy, and Tactical are what have my attention.

Just lots of cool stuff to look at though.

[tardy vault]

Heavy looks like one of the hardest honestly

No melee is rough

It does get perks to help with ammo

[dense sedge]

it has a melee attack, it's just not as good

[tardy vault]

I expect some of that judgement is most of the preview players being kind of shit?

[dense sedge]

the weapons seem to be some of the best though

[tardy vault]

Lots of mag dumping single enemies when a single pistol shot would work

[floral herald]

god yeah

the sniper gameplay hurt to watch

5 minute video

they don't use the rifle, or the camo for 3 minutes

[tardy vault]

There is like one person that got sniper and sunk time into it

and apparently at max rank it slaps

the laser rifle is apparently nasty amounts of horde clear

[floral herald]

From my... questionably relevant experience with space marine 2 the stomp you got was enough to get people off of you

But you couldn't kill in melee

But SM2 is changing a lot

[tardy vault]

I have seen the odd melee kill with the heavy in the footage

but it definitely looks stomping is a fail state for him

[floral herald]

yeah its not a goto unless you're fighting like grots

[dense sedge]

grots? what are the enemy factions, I know nids but what are the others?

[floral herald]

I was talking about my experiences in SM1 coop

I only know of tyranids and chaos

And the preview builds are all nids

[dense sedge]

the og was orks and chaos right?

[floral herald]

yeah

[upper canopy]

I wonder if fighting Chaos sucks ass

like it did in 1

[dense sedge]

Nids look fun since they have a nice mix of ground covering hordes, elite enemies and giant bosses

[upper canopy]

that is also why orks were fun

chaos however just did not work in any fun capacity

[floral herald]

Yeah IIRC the chaos ones were... not that great to fight because they had really poor unit variety

Since they were pulled from a roster of enemies which was 1. only intended to stay fresh for like 1.5 chapters of the game and 2. didn't really succeed in doing that

I will say I am a little surprised the power axe didn't make a return

Maybe it'll be some kind of DLC

[untold swallow]

I'm probably going vanguard, bulwark, and sniper

with the sniper

not using a sniper but that bolt carbine

[dense sedge]

Heavy flamer would be fun, but it's not there at launch either

probably just an absolute horde killer

[floral herald]

I miss it because I do like Ultramarines and it was a rare very Ultramarines-y thing

Ok this is a phenomenal execute animation (spoiled for potential plot spoilers)

[upper canopy]

I can't tell what's happening here

[mental birch]

But whyyy

[floral herald]

I may have snapped it a moment too late

But he's just pulled off a rubric marine's helmet and the magic dust is spraying out

https://youtu.be/qYoMTJSzhiM
It's from here

[mental birch]

Any good suggestions for heavy firepower for a rogue trader in codex imperial agents?

[upper bluff]

Are you making a imperial agents army? Or adding the rogue trader to something else? Because if you're doing the solo army the answer is probably just add a knight or 3 war glaives

3 war glaives each with thermal spear might (hopefully) be enough to cover the lack of anti tank in the codex for casual play

[dense sedge]

horde killing weapons feel like they're probably much weaker against tsons unless they're bringing tzaangors

[floral herald]

There's cultists this time around to add horde I think

I'm also hoping for Horrors with all the splitting

[upper bluff]

Oh yeah horrors would be great

[dense sedge]

horrors are one of those things that are kinda messy in tabletop but excellent in video games

[upper bluff]

It would be so cool to just chop through a huge horde than have to roll out once the brimstones spawn

[mental birch]

THe thoguth is imperial agents

Rogue trader focused

[upper bluff]

I'm sure there's some rogue trader lore that overlaps with a knight household

[dense sedge]

there's tzaangors in the video

[thin ibex]

I wonder if we'll get lightning claws in sm2

I'm also curious to see if they have a "get into Terminator Armour" moment that they've kept under wraps

[upper bluff]

There hasn't been any in the gameplay so far but it better be top of the list post release content

[dense sedge]

I'm hoping there's a setpiece moment like that

[upper canopy]

all the weapons have been revealed

no lightning claws

however we are definitely getting weapon and skin DLCs

so probably down the line

[paper bluff]

I'd pay money for carcharodons skin

[granite basin]

no lamenters skin but that's just their luck, so it tracks

[paper bluff]

I'd also most likely iron hands

But ya know who has a solid color scheme?

[upper canopy]

base-game

[past sphinx]

my second favorite unrepentant assholes

right behind minotaurs and just before Marines malevolent

[thin ibex]

If they let me, I wanna do wolf spears, but I suspect there's but enough content room

[upper canopy]

I mean like

they've shown off that you can just unlock a lot of citadel paints

and just make your own chapter

Apparently how it'll work

is they'll release packs by legion successor chapters

and the first one will, of course, be Ultramarines

[thin ibex]

I keep trying to make a fun themed sm list but I lose steam part way

Silly one

Clomp clomp

[untold swallow]

How viable is an army of tempestus scions with imperial knights?

You can have a guard army with a knight or two, right?

apparently I can only have one knight, F lol

[soft willow]

One big knight is probably all you’d want anyway tbh.

[untold swallow]

Fair but in the L o r e of this faction units led by commissars are assigned a pair of Armigers

[jaunty dawn]

you can have up to three armigers

[untold swallow]

5x Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (70pts)
5x Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (70pts)
5x Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (70pts)
Regimental Preacher (35pts): Holy pistol and Power Weapon, Holy Pistol, Power Weapon
Regimental Preacher (35pts): Holy pistol and Power Weapon, Holy Pistol, Power Weapon

10x Tempestus Scions (100pts)
10x Tempestus Scions (100pts)
10x Tempestus Scions (100pts)
10x Tempestus Scions (100pts)
10x Tempestus Scions (100pts)
10x Tempestus Scions (100pts)

10x Kasrkin (110pts)
10x Kasrkin (110pts)
10x Kasrkin (110pts)
Avenger Strike Fighter (130pts): Armoured hull, Avenger bolt cannon, Heavy Stubber, 2x Lascannon
Avenger Strike Fighter (130pts): Armoured hull, Avenger bolt cannon, Heavy Stubber, 2x Lascannon
Avenger Strike Fighter (130pts): Armoured hull, Avenger bolt cannon, Heavy Stubber, 2x Lascannon

Armiger Warglaive (150pts): Reaper chain-cleaver, Thermal spear, Questoris heavy stubber
Armiger Warglaive (150pts): Reaper chain-cleaver, Thermal spear, Questoris heavy stubber```Weeeeee 113 model army

[desert jay]

That's with scions and aircraft and armigers too, I've seen hordier guard lists break 200

And that might've even been with a couple tanks on the field

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/12/blood-angels-reveals-angelic-visions-descend-to-rout-the-enemies-of-baal/ oi it's more'a them bloody angels an wot

[pastel rampart]

Can't say the Sanguinor is worse this time around.

[mental birch]

Truly a tragic day

Lost the nipples

[south axle]

They are prepping the Blood Angels for American tv

[mental birch]

Hahaha

But isn't male presenting nipples allowed

Or is that just Twitch

[south axle]

I dunno, I am european

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN1j_nuE8Fw

This kinda screams vespids, but could as well be gargóyles

[paper bluff]

Oh lordy, that does not look like a solid spot to anchor those wings. I hope that part is slotted in

[mental birch]

Vespid vs

[past sphinx]

Those new death masks do nothing for me

[mental birch]

Someone pointed it looks like Dr Zaius

[past sphinx]

Descrungled blood angels can't have shit on baal

[south axle]

The power spears tho

[past sphinx]

But no axes

[south axle]

All axes got taken by the World Eaters

[past sphinx]

Lotta cool parts ill tell no lie

You just don't get a good Sang guard when you add em together

[south axle]

Just add some wine and make it a sangria

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like there are other heads that work better for saguinor in this release

[past sphinx]

Stormcast but lame

Somehow

[paper bluff]

It's cause the wings aren't as feathered points

[bright dove]

That might actually be fixed by paintjob for the Sanguinor wings. Just get it more contrasting than the pure white they are

[jaunty dawn]

operation hivestorm

[pastel rampart]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/366866974812405761/1272469634422935623/image-31.png?ex=66bb1732&is=66b9c5b2&hm=891f3e07e7838bf45ec33c042557f4184eca896ec0793c2cdc2e65d6d73b0b5e&

[upper bluff]

I'm surprised the sanguinor is in the same pose

[cosmic tulip]

Is it just me or does this army seem like a frantic “quick what do we do with all these kill teams”

[thin ibex]

kinda surpriused the sanguinor is like

t posing at the enemy

sanguinary guard with spears is cool tho

though less cool that axes didnt stay at least an aesthetic option

[paper bluff]

Clown car clown car

[tired cairn]

The Inquisition believe [the Sanguinor] is a manifestation of the empyrean conjured forth by the Blood Angels’ psychic will – and thus proof of a deep flaw within them

So when it's not Celestine they have issues with imperial warp demons. Such double standards.

Though are there some inquisition members who side-eye her?

[thin ibex]

absolutely

If ever the question is "Are there members of the inquisition rather suspicious about X?" the answer is absolutely yes

Celestine doesn't get a free pass from the inquisition either

[tired cairn]

lmao, fair

[jaunty dawn]

forgot about that guy

[upper bluff]

No it absolutely seems like that

Which is really disappointing. A inquisition focused army could've been really cool. Like what about an antitank infantry squad that's like 3 daemon hosts chained to a priest

[paper bluff]

No daemon hosts in the codex iirc

[past sphinx]

Also not wanting to make a full DW book

Though I stand by making then a fullcodex was a mistake to begin with

[paper bluff]

Yeah, when did deathwatxh get a codex?

[past sphinx]

8th

Came with the primarus refresh

Before that a pamphlet force you allied in

Like the special forces they are

[thin ibex]

yeah DW have always felt like a weird codex to make

make way more sense as a specialist allied unit

or hell, a cool space marine unit

Then again, I also think GK were a weird codex to make, and felt like they'd have made better allied elites than their own army

[pastel rampart]

Both DW and GK were like that in early 3e.

And GK were like that even in the Daemonhunter codex, to the extent allies were possible in that edition anyway.

I think GK have enough to justify a whole codex, but DW? Eeeeeh.

[thin ibex]

i think gk do currently, I guess, but really their only unique units are the strike team and their variants in power armor, the terminators, and the baby carrier suit