Warhammer and Such

[thin ibex]

iirc isnt hte stormcast one got a cool rule where the flashy super strong units cant arrive till turn 4?

[balmy wave]

yep

[thin ibex]

very thematic

i liked seeing tht on play on

[still warren]

yeah a few units have that along with more horde ones having recursion basically when they die

[balmy wave]

I think almost every Spearhead has a unit that can come back when it dies

[thin ibex]

i just kinda like the idea of them acknowledging the turn count as a potential balance point

so a spearhead that is on its face stronger than another isn't necessarily when its best units only exist for 2 turns

ogors look like htey give a solid balance of units

[floral herald]

I take it AoS is shaping up nicely?

For the rules for the new edition

[balmy wave]

Oh yeah

It's pretty much perfect for many people

I think the only players I've heard be disappointed are some of the Tzeentch people, and the Kharadron players for only having 3 artefacts like everyone else rather than the 6 of the Sons of Behemat

[floral herald]

Nice

[balmy wave]

My top 5 factions are the same as in 3.0 but in a different order lmao

Actually, my top 6 are too

[paper bluff]

Kharadon overlord folks were playing a different game in AOS last edition

[balmy wave]

AoS 3.0:
Lumineth Realm-lords
Ossiarch Bonereapers
Stormcast Eternals
Sons of Behemat
Ironjawz
Sylvaneth

AoS 4.0:
Lumineth Realm-Lords
Ironjawz
Sons of Behemat
Ossiarch Bonereapers
Sylvaneth
Stormcast Eternals

[balmy wave]

Bro they were playing 40K

[thin ibex]

my interest list not knowing the mechanics is
Ogors
Seraphon
Ironjaws
Stormcast
CoS

and an honorable mention to daemons

[balmy wave]

So were Cities of Sigmar players once they got their battletome

[balmy wave]

Which daemons lol

Each chaos faction has their own daemons

[thin ibex]

chaos daemons are the only one fully cross compatible between 40k and aos

[balmy wave]

But in AoS each god's daemons can only be taken in that god's faction

No mixing

[thin ibex]

i think id favor khorne

[balmy wave]

YES

[thin ibex]

not exactly complex but they're my preferred chaos god

[balmy wave]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE

KHOOOOOOOORNE

[paper bluff]

Khorne is straight forward

[balmy wave]

Literally

Like, just send your units straight forward

[thin ibex]

its something i appreciate about khorne

[balmy wave]

That's the battleplan

[paper bluff]

The flow is "are you in melee?" If yes "good, right where you need to be" and if no "get into melee"

[balmy wave]

I am disappointed Valkia is in legends but hey, that's life

[balmy wave]

And also "kill things" and "get killed"

[thin ibex]

ork v khorne is always great

[balmy wave]

For Khorne cares not whence the blood flows

[thin ibex]

mixing WAAAGH and KHOOORNE

[balmy wave]

Fr tho his main battle mechanic requires you to both kill enemy units and have your units die

So you fully need some chaff you send to get absolutely thwacked

[tepid stratus]

Tragically this is only the case for spearhead as of 4th edition

Ah it got addressed later on

[balmy wave]

Yup

Temptation dice do sorta exist but paradoxically they're more of a temptation for you

[thin ibex]

are the emchanics for the ogor one out for me to look at or to get tldr'd to me?

[tepid stratus]

Literally all of them are available to download now

[balmy wave]

You do a few mortals when you charge, you're faster when you're hungry, and you heal when you're eating

[thin ibex]

oh that seems straightforward

[balmy wave]

But yeah every faction's basic rules are out and free

[thin ibex]

all communicates to "i want to get to combat and i have been provided tools to do that better"

[paper bluff]

Perfect

[tepid stratus]

Never do more than one temptation a round unless you know you're gonna do a big play. Giving your opponent a free 12" charge is too powerful this edition

[thin ibex]

ive been enamored of hte idea of cataclysmic charge of mournfangs or crushers

[balmy wave]

So you get very strong units, but your opponent gets up to 3 guaranteed 6s on any dice with a one in three chance to take D3 mortal wounds

Goodyear has a good point

Countercharge is a thing that does exist

[tepid stratus]

That being said we slaanesh players can do some real fuckery this edition

[paper bluff]

My main problem with starting an AOS army of giants is its another army and I have to pay rent and eat and also I don't like to paint skin

[balmy wave]

Tbh they don't have to be skin - you could flavour them as being from Chamon so their skin is metallic

[tepid stratus]

Lord of hubris + phantasmagoria will have you rolling over laughing at your opponents misery

[balmy wave]

The outer edges of Chamon are very fucky

[tepid stratus]

Big ass sentient bronze statues goes hard

[balmy wave]

Lotta Tzeentch out there tbf

I've got a coupla Gargants lists I've cooked up actually, wanna see?

[tepid stratus]

Reminder that the ecosystem of chamon relies on rivers of liquid silver that are kept flowing by a chaos dragon. Who's also Dracothian's biggest hater

[paper bluff]

Go for it

[balmy wave]

Crush the Punies! (1980 points)

ARMY

Grand Alliance Destruction
Sons of Behemat
Stomper Tribe
2000 Points Limit
Drops: 1

Regiments
General's Regiment
King Brodd (520)
• General
Mancrusher Gargant (160)
Mancrusher Mob (420)
Mancrusher Mob (420)
Warstomper Mega-Gargant (460)
• Monstrously Tough
• Extra-calloused Feet

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Smash the Big 'uns! (1990 points)

ARMY

Grand Alliance Destruction
Sons of Behemat
Breaker Tribe
2000 Points Limit
Drops: 1

Regiments
General's Regiment
King Brodd (520)
• General
Beast-smasher Mega-Gargant (470)
• Mantle of Tusk and Horns
• Furious Temper
Mancrusher Gargant (160)
Mancrusher Mob (420)
Mancrusher Mob (420)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[paper bluff]

When you get to dragons the AOS and fantasy lore gets crazy

[tepid stratus]

I'll be honest I can't stand the mancrusher sculpt. It's 4 big boys or bust for me

[balmy wave]

Frfr

[paper bluff]

Is the app out for updated AOS?

[tepid stratus]

Taker tribe got the gargants drip

[balmy wave]

Something tells me Breaker Tribe is the tribe for you!

It gives all Megas a 6+ ward if they're within 3" of another Mega

[tepid stratus]

New version is out, clearly made by whoever was contracted for the 40k app. And much like that app there's some bugs

[balmy wave]

So extra tanky big boys

Anyway, I own zero gargants so I'm not even gonna run either of those lists outside of a TTS game

Here's my real list:
Enduring as Rock (2000 points)

ARMY

Grand Alliance Order
Lumineth Realm-lords
Alarith Temple
2000 Points Limit
Drops: 4

Spell Lore - Lore of Hysh
Manifestation Lore - Manifestations of Hysh

Regiments

General's Regiment
Avalenor, The Stoneheart King (410)
• General
Alarith Stoneguard (260)
• Reinforced
Alarith Stoneguard (260)
• Reinforced
Vanari Auralan Wardens (140)

Regiment 1
Alarith Stonemage (150)
• Masterful Tactician

Regiment 2
Lyrior Uthralle, Warden of Ymetrica (240)
Vanari Auralan Sentinels (150)
Vanari Bladelords (140)
Vanari Starshard Ballista (130)

Regiment 3
Scinari Cathallar (120)
• Silver Wand

Faction Terrain
Shrine Luminor

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[tepid stratus]

Gargants ain't my style of army. Even if I like the mega gargants sculpts. I run slaanesh, tzeentch, ironjawz, soulblight and slaves to darkness. I may have a problem but in my defense I've been playing for a decade

[balmy wave]

I do really like Ironjawz

Slow, tanky, hit hard and have fun

[tepid stratus]

The movement tech in ironjawz is crazy right now

Maw gruntas are impossible to tie down

[balmy wave]

Yeee, pile-in every hero phase

Good shit

[tepid stratus]

Ever seen a Maw grunta move 3 times in a row through your screen and into your backline? Because you can do that now

[balmy wave]

Hakkin Krews

They do love that movement hack

[tepid stratus]

Charge + power through + carve a path makes a menace of a pig

[balmy wave]

"Oh, that's a pretty big unit but I have my front line blocking it-- wait why the fuck are my archers dead?"

[paper bluff]

I like not having to move alot of units. What can I say

I should show the knight I'm painting at some point

[balmy wave]

Me when alarith

[balmy wave]

You can Kool-aid man it through walls now

[paper bluff]

I did do that with me recent csnis rex usage

I handed that off to be painted by a professional because centerpiece and most used model

[dense sedge]

Hedonittes look fun

[paper bluff]

I'm using a dark red, dark purple, light purple and gold colour scheme

[tepid stratus]

Funny enough a friend of mine got commissioned to paint a knight recently

[paper bluff]

For the knight

[dense sedge]

I love painting body horror and cloth while temptation is a fun mech

[paper bluff]

You in ohio?

[tepid stratus]

Ontario

[dense sedge]

Probably would go with em if I played AoS

[paper bluff]

The ohio or Canada one?

[tepid stratus]

How much brain power are you comfortable using in a game? I play slaanesh competitively and they're a fairly high skill floor to not get wiped

[tepid stratus]

The Canada one, but the joke is always funny

[paper bluff]

I was about to ask "their discord name start with Mcb?"

[tepid stratus]

Nope, but it would have been a funny coincidence

[dense sedge]

I have way too many ongoing projects and plastic in my pile of shame to actually start a new army in a new game

[past sphinx]

my love of dogshit bullpup bolters is evergreen

[past sphinx]

Just a pair of centuries old hate fueled genetic freaks in love

[finite compass]

It's mah boy!

Box Dread my beloved

[solemn gull]

sweet looking nightlords

[pulsar cairn]

idk , cawl sort of looks like a platypus to me, he's even got a beak

[paper bluff]

It might be due to being a necrons player but I always thought Chin with that

[pulsar cairn]

it looks more like a chin the closer you get to it but i have more fun looking at it as a beak

platypus tech priest!

[pine matrix]

It's a feedbag full of worthers originals

[pulsar cairn]

so ur telling me he's actually a horse

[solemn gull]

People think the respirator looks like a chin?

[past sphinx]

for a dude who loves knowin stuff he sure is walkin on a book there

[paper bluff]

A book? There's millions of books. A dataslate though? He would never

[desert jay]

Boarding Patrol is getting its own book, and with two detachments for every faction but the knights

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/17/paint-a-space-hulk-red-with-brutal-close-range-brawls-in-the-new-boarding-actions-supplement/

[runic swallow]

Knights just get a super heavy chainsword that you roll randomly to see what exterior bulkhead locations it stabs through each turn

[desert jay]

2028: Knights get a Caliban

[pastel rampart]

How big is a boarding action table?

[past sphinx]

daemon princes are kinda trash rn yes?

[desert jay]

I've actually heard positive things about them... but can't remember if that positivity was for Daemons or CSM lists

[past sphinx]

hmm

my heart yearns for fucked up little guys

[upper bluff]

I think the current opinion is that only Khorne daemon princes are good

Apparently the other ones just aren't killy enough for the cost

[soft willow]

No single Armiger with a unit of house guard? Come on GW.

[jaunty dawn]

Two kill team boards but not because it has it's own board size

[soft willow]

Give me the Knight boarding patrol/Kill Team.

[jaunty dawn]

Armiger literally wouldn't fit in boarding patrol corridors lol

[soft willow]

I don’t see a problem.

[floral herald]

They’re ok

[past sphinx]

thats why you bring the one with the melta, cut your way through!

[floral herald]

Not exceptionally strong but good enough

[pastel rampart]

Boarding Actions use two 704-millimeter-long-by-607-millimeter-wide (roughly 27.7-inches by 23.9-inches) boards instead.

What is this nonsense

[runic swallow]

…that is an odd choice

Like, it’s not even round numbers in either system

[soft willow]

Fits in a box on a pallet better is the best theory I have heard for why that size.

[pastel rampart]

It's a very weird choice.

[jaunty dawn]

It's to match the terrain

So it's like, sprue size more so

How many walls you can fit on a sprue etc

[pastel rampart]

Basically makes it 55.4x47.8" which is...an awkward fit, especially off the backs of KT's much more reasonable 30x22".

[past sphinx]

this made my eye twitch

[jaunty dawn]

Cause the boards are a grid that matches the terrain

[past sphinx]

May god force the engineers to work with wood and a tape measure inshallah

[pastel rampart]

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/space-hulk-interior-kill-team-terrain Did get me to find some nice terrain for it tho

https://fbi.cults3d.com/uploaders/19416830/illustration-file/4ddc8e16-6eed-48dc-bb0c-9b904ff532bb/iso.png

I still want to do a board with a bunch of LEDs in it.

This or some street lamps or whatever.

[tardy vault]

vibes were bad so left.

[pastel rampart]

Uh oh.

https://deathraydesigns.com/product/deadbolts-derelict-columns-10-pack-expansion/ Though, thinking on it now, something a little chunkier like this would be better for LEDs.

[tardy vault]

going to try a different shop and see if the vibes are better. Fortunately I'm in an area where they're not the only game in town.

[dense sedge]

oh that sucks

[tardy vault]

Maybe I'm overly jumpy, but I just could not relax and hang out.

[dense sedge]

was that a lack of good vibes or the prescense of bad vibes?

[tardy vault]

Lack of good vibes I think

[bright dove]

This reminds me, I should check out my local warhammer store.

[tardy vault]

And complete ignoring of me. I tried engaging and talking but no one was interested in chatting despite plenty of downtime (wasn't like I walked into a room with games going and tried peeling someone away or anything)

[runic swallow]

That’s no fun

[solemn gull]

This would be pretty dope, a knight breaching with their fancy house guards sweeping in behind them

[paper bluff]

Hmmm do I keep the light gold?

[past sphinx]

it will look nice if your planning on using oil washes, otherwise thats already a very saturated color scheme with that light blue

if you go with that darking blue tho that gold looks really nice in contrast to it

[paper bluff]

blue?

oh the dark purple

[past sphinx]

sorry im colorblind as fuck

bad with shades

[past sphinx]

Don't get me wrong I respect the hustle, but if I paid 140 bucks for a single warhammer model I'd like for chapter badge to be on straight

Nice freehand tho

[junior summit]

Finished Warmaster and Anarch and honestly they're pretty good

Abnett needs to stop referring to machine guns with calibers though, a .20 is not particularly impressive unless its firing some bizarro hypervelocity round

[tired cairn]

Maybe they make it up in volume

[uneven ember]

"40K fluff" and "numbers" never really mesh very well at all.

[bright dove]

As a rule of thumb, I ignore all numbers in fiction.

[thin ibex]

40k fluff is generally governed by "what sounds both excessive and archaic, and overkill for the issue'

Sword? Sword is now the size of a surf board and has chainsaw teeth, or a super disintegration field

[past sphinx]

Fam i aint gonna look at a M249 SAW and go "psh weakass gun"

[thin ibex]

A .20 still kills a person when it hits the right spot

I don't think it's trying to impress anyone

It's just trying to make living people into dead ones

[bright dove]

There could probably be a 40k speech about how bullets will always do their job with no backtalk

[paper bluff]

Sounds like something the guy in charge of the last chancers would say

[uneven ember]

https://x.com/lord_carmi/status/1813522911300313360

LordCarmi (@lord_carmi) on X

Wh40K Citizens of the Imperium series
𝗛𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗖𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗙𝗮𝗺𝗶𝗹𝘆 𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴
#WarhammerCommunity #characterdesign #illustration #warhammer40000 #digitalart #conceptart #scifi

Twitter · Jul 17, 2024, 10:35 AM

[pine matrix]

Being a ganger is probably a pretty good career path in the hives

[uneven ember]

dynamic field, challenging work, opportunity for advancement

[quaint compass]

I swear you won't go hungry

[paper bluff]

They used to recruit space marines from that

[floral herald]

Being a space marine is a pretty bad career tho

[paper bluff]

You know, aside imperial fists, you don't hear about chapters recruiting from hive worlds

These days

[past sphinx]

lot of hassle problably

[uneven ember]

I think the Astral Claws used to?

[floral herald]

I think a lot of chapters do but it’s mostly unremarked on

[upper canopy]

Blood Ravens

Also the main reason is because if you earmark a world as being a Space Marine homeworld it becomes exempt from the Tithe

which considering how valuable Hive Worlds are is a bad idea

That's why they'd rather give Space Marines shitty feral worlds instead

[past sphinx]

and uhh gangers under the age of what 14? aint really the best canidates usually

[upper canopy]

Oh no they are

That ganger is probably about as good as 12 Year Old Caveman anyway

[floral herald]

So do the Fists just get to bypass that cause their recruiting infrastructure is older than imperial taxes?

[past sphinx]

you gotta get past all the drugs and malnutrion

[uneven ember]

also I feel like most Space Marine homeworlds are more thematically tied to their Deal than you usually get from "future dystopia megacity" usually provides

[floral herald]

Honestly what are they feeding these 12 year olds

[jaunty dawn]

i think also just cause fists recruit from so many places

like inwit might be exempt

[upper canopy]

It's because they don't mark Necromunda as a "homeworld"

the Imperial Fist's homeworld is technically Terra

Which is, yeah, exempt from the Tithe technically

[uneven ember]

yeah you get a couple chapters like that
Templars famously don't have a homeworld at all

[uneven ember]

(I hear tithing to yourself makes you go blind)

[paper bluff]

You know, a combined arms space marines and imperial guard force coming from a single hive would would kick ass

[floral herald]

The Templars do get to use the Fists combined recruit pipeline though

[jaunty dawn]

and technically the phalanx is where the imperial fists live?

[upper canopy]

Yes

[jaunty dawn]

not on a planet at all

[upper canopy]

But officially their homeworld is Terra.

[paper bluff]

And that force supplied from the planet industry

[paper bluff]

Was a moon IIRC

[jaunty dawn]

no phalanx is just a cool spaceship

[uneven ember]

they also put Chapter Keeps all over to recruit from on whatever planet they fight on

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah imperial fists are like gee why did dad give you three worlds

[upper canopy]

Blood Ravens: "DO YOU KNOW MY DAD?"

"PLEASE"

"TELL ME WHO MY DAD IS"

[paper bluff]

Sigismund was a special boy

A knight world space marines chapter.....

[upper canopy]

Howling Griffons

(or the Marines Errant, one of the two)

[paper bluff]

Just had to jog my memory on they. They suck shit and actively make their homeworld worse lol

But nah, medieval feudal world for them

[bright dove]

There is precedent for gangers being used as Guard recruitment fuel.

[past sphinx]

like those hardass dudes who ride inside titans to counter boarding actions

[paper bluff]

What is the raven guard recruitment world?

[jaunty dawn]

deliverance

moon orbitting a forge world

[uneven ember]

But also yeah, this has always been very funny to me, just because
"Look, I'm gonna break it to you straight, kid: you've got some gumption, but you have absolutely no place in the Imperial Fists. You're undisciplined, you have no talent or patience with craftsmanship, and frankly you're emotionally unregulated to the point of being a serious danger to yourself and others."
"So I... can't be a space marine?"
"Oh, no, I never said that, just wait here I gotta make a call."

[upper canopy]

That's literally every Space Marine chapter.

[bright dove]

Ultramarines.

I don't think the Blood Angels could make Baal worse if they tried.

[paper bluff]

Yeah but that was a prison and the raven raven man did the freedom fight and won

[upper canopy]

Ultramarines practice slavery

and Blood Angels actively don't cure the horrible radiation mutations people get.

[bright dove]

Oh please, that's hardly special in the Imperium.

[paper bluff]

I mean.... what is serfdom?

[upper canopy]

Slavery :v

[paper bluff]

Chapter serf is right there

[upper canopy]

Yes I know.

I'm also saying they still actively make it worse with their presence.

And suck shit.

[bright dove]

I would say that the Tyrannic War would have made Ultramar a lot worse.

[upper canopy]

Also Mancora is indeed a Knight World, not a Feudal World.

[paper bluff]

They actively go out and stop technical development and keep places constantly on war footing was more what I was remarking on. These marines out their black bagging a guy for getting too far with a steam engine

[upper canopy]

Yes that's almost every Space Marine chapter.

[bright dove]

Except for the ones that very notably do not do that.

[upper canopy]

Most of them go "We need warriors, go start a war on the planet"

[bright dove]

Blood Angels go "Baal sucks, pass and you get off the planet"

Ultramar just developed an entire system.

[paper bluff]

Ultramar has its own guard regiments don't they?

[bright dove]

Ultramar is basically its own sector, yes.

[unreal cosmos]

Not guard, more PDF

Wait maybe some Guard, idk

[upper canopy]

Also there's no one alive on Baal anymore specifically because the Blood Angels were there.

Same thing with Fenris.

[bright dove]

I have a strong suspicion that has less to do with the choices of the Blood Angels and Space Wolves than outside action.

[paper bluff]

It could be said it is the space wolves fault

[upper canopy]

Leman could've not been a dick so at least one of those is indeed their fault.

[paper bluff]

They did keep pissin on the big magic man

[bright dove]

Yeah, Baal got hit by Hive Fleet Leviathan.

[paper bluff]

The tyranids are a force of nature basically

[uneven ember]

Ultrimar is pretty much an empire unto itself.

[paper bluff]

So, vendetta on the space wolves kinda their fault. Tyranids showing up is because you are tasty

[paper bluff]

Would you call it..... Imperium Seccundus?!

[bright dove]

Also, while the meme is funny and all

And the emperor is a jerk who hides vital need to know information

Magnus did that to himself.

[uneven ember]

note about the Tyranids that I dig
how depending on framing or perspective they can be "Starship Troopers-style space bug swarm" but also they can be "dragons that need slaying" but also they can be "vast and unfathomably alien intelligence from the cold space between the stars"

[bright dove]

Also looking at the siege of Fenris

The fucking Imperium did the most damage.

[finite compass]

RE: Hive Ganger guardsmen

A lot of worlds are just so hilariously violent that it's SOP to scoop up entire gangs, give them uniforms and lasguns, and basically not bother with much in the way of training

[bright dove]

"As the entire Fenris System is assailed by the forces of Chaos, Fenris itself is bombarded by a coalition of Space Marines led by the Dark Angels, the Space Wolves' traditional rivals."

"Much of Fenris' tribal population is liquidated by the Ordo Malleus much as happened after the First War for Armageddon in the aftermath of their witnessing the existence of the Daemon Primarch Magnus."

[bright dove]

The Calixis Sector regularly does this!

[finite compass]

Good ol' Volg

My last DH PC was from Volg

Would often drop anecdotes about life straight-faced and make the other PCs question if they were bullshitting or not

[uneven ember]

Codex: Armageddon had an entry for "hive gang conscripts" in Guard armies
Which flat-out said in the description that this was rules for playing your Necromunda minis in 40K games

[finite compass]

"They're like sump-roaches. Getting 'em one at a time won't work, you have to hit the nest."
"I think the cult is a bit more dangerous than a roach."
"Says you, I've seen one take a man's head off."

[uneven ember]

Oh, that's always great.
I did the same kind of thing with my DH PC, although they were usually army stories rather than hive life anecdotes.

[upper canopy]

To be fair it got hit by Leviathan specifically because the Tyranids hated the Blood Angels specifically because no one in 40k's author stable actually likes writing Xenos

like I don't think this is good lore but it's unfortunately canon

[bright dove]

Tyranids are capable of strategy, but saying that's the Blood Angel's fault is... A tad disingenuous

[upper canopy]

It wasn't strategy, it was a grudge.

[uneven ember]

everyone else getting all-in on the Inquisitorial stuff & Quinten just there going "never volunteer for anything, your officers will have plenty of ways to get you killed without you making up your own."

[upper canopy]

The entire hive mind hated the blood angels.

[finite compass]

Yeah, that's...Odd.

[upper canopy]

which, again, I hate

it is however Actually Canon.

[finite compass]

Like "Tyranids have marked the Blood Angels as a threat, and deployed forces to remove them" - THAT fits better than "It's a personal grudge and they hate them"

[uneven ember]

yeah but the beautiful thing about WH40K canon is that even more than other fictional properties you can always go "that's dumb and I feel like it doesn't count"

[bright dove]

Ate too many and got tired of seeing Horus

[finite compass]

The Hive Mind shouldn't really do 'hate'

Not because it's perfectly rational, but because it's so far above those concerns

[uneven ember]

"oh yeah some dude said that but he was wrong or lying" can be and often is the "official" response by GW-published authors to other parts of canon all the time and so we can just decide to do that ourselves

[bright dove]

I hate Nids being able to adapt to Nurgle plagues, as an aside

[thin ibex]

in the same vein, i dislike nurgle plagues being effective against necrons xD

[lucid scarab]

I like the idea of tyranids being able to hate because it embodies their concept. Hate is evolved, just the same way teeth and claws are. An organism being able to feel hatred towards its prey makes it all the more dangerous to that prey.

the Blood Angels having made such an impression on the nids makes a lot of sense. The grudge furthers the hive minds goal of wiping a threat out. extreme prejudice when you see blood angels markings.

Seems pretty unlikely that emotional responses are an exclusively human trait. And if tyranids are the “apex of evolution” or whatever, they would also use those traits when it increases their fitness to a task.

It tracks to me that the hive mind would use whatever it has at its disposal in its lexicon of traits to get a task done.

[past sphinx]

Kinda funny to think of an evil nurgle malware tho

[finite compass]

It probably exists

Chaos Scrapcode is a thing

[plucky token]

for sure, yeah

and they have plagues that can affect metals too

[bright dove]

Infectious Rust is totally a thing for Nurgle

[thin ibex]

i mean, in the same vein, why would it be weird for nids to be able to adapt to nurgle plagues?

their whole shtick is adaptation

[lucid scarab]

Adaptation and also being anathema to chaos because of the shadow in the warp

To me if there was a species that could shrug warp magic like Nurgle’s plagues the nids would be one of them

[bright dove]

It's because Warp based plagues are not beholden to actual physical peocesses

[thin ibex]

So... the faction that has the ability to force chaos out of the physical world and has no soul and no organic parts is more susceptible than the faction that adapts to just about anything, including psykers and warp phenomena?

[bright dove]

They are as equally vulnerable, yes

[thin ibex]

i mean, the thing about adaptation is that you are initially affected by it; not totally immune to it

[finite compass]

It's old lore from the Eye of Terror campaign but there was a blurb about ships picking up Typhus's flagship on sensors or just visually sighting it across thousands of kilometers getting their crews depopulated by plagues.

[bright dove]

That's not what wound up happening

[thin ibex]

It would be pretty silly for a singel contraction of a plague to wipe out every tyranid in a tendril

though incidentally thats how the farsight enclaves survived, by using some kind of lethal virus incorporated into the scientist who designed it's own dna

or kinda how

but in any event, it would be weirder for tyranids to have no answer to nurgle plagues than for them to be able to adapt to it

[bright dove]

"No blood was being spilled for Khorne, just putrid alien ichor. All of Nurgles diseases were ineffective in the face of Tyranid adaptation."

This is the extract of what happened

It was a complete cop out

[thin ibex]

isn't chaos pretty opposed to nids as well? Because nids aren't beholden to the gods and don't really empower them or something?

[bright dove]

It's a mutual problem. Shadow in the Warp makes things harder

But daemons don't provide biomass

Like Necrons, going up against daemons is just a net loss for the Nids

[thin ibex]

that makes sense

a sort of "a threat to be answered but not a target to be pursued"

in that sometimes they get in the way, but always hte main goal is biomass

though apparently the psychic type nids can eat souls? At least if the doom of malantai is still canon right?

[bright dove]

The Doom is the only one that figured that out still

[thin ibex]

soul eating feels like the fast track to ctan vibes

[bright dove]

It wouldn't really help a hive fleet, because while it did give the Doom power, it didn't help make more Nids

[thin ibex]

im kinda surprised we havent got like a "who's the bigger bad" narrative like 3 way, between chaos, crons, and nids

just villains villaining in teh same place

[bright dove]

And all have very good claims

[thin ibex]

would just love to see the ego clash and so on

[bright dove]

Ironically, Chaos wants to preserve the status quo

[thin ibex]

especially chaos and crons; though i guess the hive mind is like... literally the biggest ego

[bright dove]

Things are great for them still

[thin ibex]

oh you know i guess orks are always welcome in the biggest bad contest

they havent been The Big Bad in a while actually

tangent, but release date for the speed freaks game trailer dropped!

[bright dove]

Wooo!

[thin ibex]

wait thats a weird sentence

the trailer with the release date dropped

-_-

[uneven ember]

it hasn't been so much the case recently but back when the orks spent so much time jobbing, especially in the video games

like, the IoM thinks it's just dealing with a common or garden ork invasion but sike there's Chaos/ nids/ whatever the real existential threat is

[thin ibex]

yeah i think orks are often sidelined as mid boss/underestimated compared to and by other factions

maybe the time is ripe for orks to remind the galaxy that they arent playing second fiddle

narratively another big move by ghaz would be neat

post getting beheaded and then frankensteined

today i will make some orky lists i think

kinda wanna mess around with 3k lists xD

[tired cairn]

Re: space marines recruiting from hive worlds. I imagine the hive world wouldn't mind that much. Surely they don't take that many people, plus I'm sure it's an honour ~~and are you really going to argue with a battle barge ~~

[thin ibex]

I imagine for most governors who are savvy, it can be seen as an honor; in that their world is then also protected by that chapter

and saying no to a chapter master is usually unwise

[tired cairn]

It's funny to me that Necrons are the apex actual threat here. Beating out even chaos

Though it's also funny to me that in the Dawn of War game that pulled off that stunt, the ork mission to beat them was the easiest

[thin ibex]

i forget if this is still canon but i remember necron lore mentioning that if they were all awake, they'd outnumber almost all the other factions

[tired cairn]

I think orks, Tyranids and I guess now Necrons all compete for that spot

[upper bluff]

With how careless the leaders are with their grunts it probably still is

[tired cairn]

Hey, the grunts get better

[upper bluff]

For being a doomed species they all kinda just wake guys and chuck them into the personal ambition blender

[tired cairn]

Or at least have their parts recycled

[thin ibex]

i dont think necrons see themselves as doomed

I'm not even sure they ARE doomed

[tired cairn]

They are doomed in a past sense sort of way

[upper bluff]

Probably not I just mean like when a necron dies that's like a 60 million year old consciousness gone

[tired cairn]

And think they might fix it at some point

[upper bluff]

No getting it back

[paper bluff]

I think it hates in the way AM hates https://youtu.be/EddX9hnhDS4?si=uYeZsbeyVAY-gsSi

[thin ibex]

tbf, the grunts have next to no consciosness as is

necron warrior isn't really a thinking person

[uneven ember]

also most of the time a grunt getting shot to fuck just needs to teleport back to the shop

[upper bluff]

Sometimes because they're woken up early by the overlords

[tired cairn]

Eh, I don't think the Hive Mind would torture something for eternity for revenge

More like some types of animal hates

"that hurt me and now I'm going to be super aggressive in order to send a message"

[thin ibex]

i think if hte hive mind kills you, but doesnt eat you, that means it probably hates you

[uneven ember]

orks are pretty frequently mentioned as theoretically able to be the biggest threat in the setting, if they could ever get on the same side instead of krumpin' each other more than they do the oomies

[paper bluff]

Now that would be something. A being from the last galaxy it ate or an old one at the core of a hive ship

[thin ibex]

yeah the orks fractitious nature is usually their undoing, not the other factions in the setting xD

[tired cairn]

Lol, the ultimate Tyranid insult: "you taste bad"

[paper bluff]

Orks are arguably having the best time in the 40k universe

[thin ibex]

question, have the nids managed to make it to terra in lore?

i know chaos has a few times, and orks have at least once

and necrons i think had some space ships fly through terran space

[tired cairn]

Genestealers have been there for a long time

Otherwise no

[thin ibex]

oh thats fair

[uneven ember]

some Necron ships showed up in Sol out of nowhere
They immediately got blown to fuck but it still freaked everyone out

[thin ibex]

iirc they made of a hell of an account for themselves

[uneven ember]

I don't think so?
Like as described (back in, idk, the OG Necron codex & BFG) is basically that they showed up and got shot to shit, but it was still a "how the hell did they get this far"

[thin ibex]

yeah it was a "they flew tright past the orbital defenses of mars and actually landed, but then got blasted up at the landing site"

which was shocking for the martians

[tired cairn]

I wonder if the Necrons were still half-asleep and didn't realize Mars was now inhabited. And then were Audi shocked when blasted to bits

[uneven ember]

possible!

[floral herald]

Iirc they managed to penetrate the defenses very deeply just with sheer speed

[white mural]

Genestealers are the sleeping tiger of the setting (Cope)

[floral herald]

And at least one ship got away

[uneven ember]

BFG also revealed/retconned that they were the Shroud-class stealth light cruiser
but yeah they were also using the Inertialess Drives that the 'crons used for FTL before they got retconned into using the Webway

[tired cairn]

Wait, they had their FTL retconned?

Why does GW hate non-warp FTL

And when are they going to retcon Tyranids to using it 😦

[uneven ember]

I think they still have the drives?
But also the webway?
Maybe?

[tired cairn]

Ah

[uneven ember]

not actually sure what the deal is there

[paper bluff]

The crons have a whole sort. Usually it's inertialess drives

It's inconsistent

[tardy vault]

Welp, I took the plunge and bought the Daughters of Khaine Vanguard box. It arrives next week. Time to get tools in order.

[pastel rampart]

They still have I-drives as well as Dolmen Gates

[uneven ember]

40k inconsistant whaaaaaaaaaaa

[paper bluff]

They do have web way access and they dimensional travel

[uneven ember]

but no for real have they un-retconned the T'au back into having FTL?

[tired cairn]

Necrons also had the Pharos device which "is able to harness empathy to allow the user to find, communicate, or even teleport to a location they either consciously or subconsciously desired, without the use of the Warp. Instead of routing through the Warp, it connected two points directly within the Materium via quantum entanglement"

Tau use the warp now

Properly that is

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron_Fleet

[uneven ember]

ah neat

[tired cairn]

The skipping method is cooler but I guess they wanted them elsewhere

Well, I guess opening giant holes in the warp with antimatter explosions is also kind of cool

[paper bluff]

The tau made a stargate

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dolmen_Gate They can enter the webway but it's unstable.

[paper bluff]

It's basically a shokk attack gun though

[tired cairn]

Also the Eldar broke a bunch of passages to limit how much the Necrons can use it right?

[pastel rampart]

Yup

[uneven ember]

but for real BFG Necrons were busted busted in an even match.
But they had a few neat handicaps to make it a bit more equal

[pastel rampart]

There's very few of them now so they don't get used much.

[tired cairn]

Oh, I didn't realize they broke all the antimatter engines

[paper bluff]

The web way kinda pretty fucked atm. Wonder if that'll make clown god more active

[tired cairn]

How do the eldar even manage to show up anywhere useful with how messed up the webway is lol

[paper bluff]

Lots o passages and funny clown

They dune navigator it and it shifts

[rocky harness]

Farseer saw the need 2000 years ago amd sent a fleet the slow way, long weekend for the Eldar

[pastel rampart]

Fucked up as the webway is, it's still a thousand times more stable and safer than warp travel.

[rocky harness]

I imagine e for the Eldar this is the webway messed up, just imagine it in its prime.

[tired cairn]

lol, it's mostly fine but there is a bunch of cobwebs and the floor is creaky

[paper bluff]

You're not going through Satan's front lawn with the web way. You're only in Satan's zip code

[uneven ember]

A neat one was that
okay so, in BFG you can Disengage a ship or squad from the battle. It takes a Leadership roll that's harder if you have enemies nearby and easier if you're near celestial phenomena, so "we'll lose them in the asteroid field" is a legit tactic.
Necrons can always Disengage without a roll because they can teleport away at any time, with the corollary that they get severe Victory Point penalties if one of their capitol ships are destroyed or, worst of all, left as a hulk on the field.
So the intended play is that the Necrons are super powerful but also quick to disappear when shit gets rocky.

[tired cairn]

That is neat

[thin ibex]

arent the eldar the only faction with an actual map/knowledge on how to navigate hte webway, despite the other factions that occassionally use it

[bright dove]

Yep

[paper bluff]

I think only the harlequins have actually maps aside from that one guy with the skin book

[pastel rampart]

Harlequins and presumably the Black Library have fully-detailed maps of the entire webway, but the craftworlds and dark eldar likely have a working knowledge of most of the working/safe routes.

At least, that's a reasonable assumption to make.

[uneven ember]

or at least of the ones they take on a regular basis

[uneven ember]

also, just occurred to me
Necron aircraft are basically flying saucers

shape's generally right and they can perform all the bullshit "physics do not work that way" maneuvers you're supposed to see from UFOs

[paper bluff]

Correct. I think in lore it's even like that

[solemn gull]

Every planet has a pdf

[paper bluff]

Yes. I meant like the tanith first, the Armageddon steel legion, catachan jungle fighter

[jaunty dawn]

macragge is adeptus non but not ultramar as a whole

but also knowing the ultramarines they probably like. voluntarily make guard regiments lol

[uneven ember]

Yeah, which means Ultrimar has "local" Navy, Guard, Planetary Governors, and the Ultramarines.
Which, in the fashion of the IoM, are all separate hierarchies that don't overlap until you reach the High Lords of Terra.
But also mostly they need to coordinate to do anything in the sector.

[thin ibex]

well, when it comes to ultramar, the ultramarines i believe do take direct command of a lot of things

[jaunty dawn]

oh nvm apparently all the worlds of ultramar tithe to the ultramarines directly

codex sm 5th edition

[uneven ember]

oh huh

[jaunty dawn]

and no guard regiments formed by tithe but the Ultramar Auxilia often fight alongside the ultramarines as they did in the great crusade and are prepared to join the imperial guard command structure whenever needed

also their own ultramar defence fleet ofc

[solemn gull]

I think the ultramar auxilia are definitely skilled enough to be guard

[jaunty dawn]

yeah theyre just not required to formally become guard regiments

[solemn gull]

Also I love how the ultramar chapters don’t make their planets into death worlds or have insane challenges for their aspirants

[dense sedge]

Auxilia are neat, I honestly feel like 40ks been the weakest design team at gw for a bit

[tepid stratus]

Truth

[finite compass]

I'm just sitting here fruitlessly and hopelessly waiting for a Catachan update

[remote wharf]

Writers have not sense of scale in any setting.

[uneven ember]

It's true, but even by that standard 40K numbers are nonsense.

[dense sedge]

the size of chapters is comically small

they'd struggle to make a difference in a continental conflict, let along a planetary or intergalatic one

[thin ibex]

40k numbers, historically, are based on the "two guys in a garage asking what sounds like a big number, then going with that"

[paper bluff]

At the end of the day it is silly thing to get you to buy plasitf

[solemn gull]

Have any authors used 40k rules to decide the outcome of combat in books?

I know some battletech authors did it

[dense sedge]

definetly not

[upper bluff]

Well define books. I'm sure there's probably a few codexes with some text like that

But definitely not novels lol

[uneven ember]

honestly I feel like 10K would have been a more sensible supersoldiers number.
But, well, a bit late to change things now

[thin ibex]

i honestly have no issue with the general size of chapters

they're bigger considering the supporting population of non space marines as uncounted pop

[uneven ember]

That is true!

Like, the same way as the "Three Hundred Spartans*"

[thin ibex]

1000 space marines with shock assault capability and surgical strikes can accomplish quite a lot

[past sphinx]

and their battlefield roles are much more limited to surgical strikes these days

eyyy

same brainwaves

[thin ibex]

it only doesn't make sense when its assumed they commit to grinding ground wars

which just isn't the space marine MO

[uneven ember]

(unless you're the Fists)

[jaunty dawn]

maybe imperial armour

ah fuck discord scroll

but a lot of those narratives were inspired by campaigns, like taros campaign mentions it at the beginning

[thin ibex]

i mean, in imperial armor, it was a - oh right; well imperial armor solved the issue of numbers by being a conglomeration of different chapters acting in concert

[jaunty dawn]

this is what I was replying to

[uneven ember]

But yeah, as has been pointed out a Space Marine chapter's real military strength is its fleet.
Supplemented by a few hundred very elite infantry and supporting armor.
& compared to most of the IoM, almost unparalleled ability to handle their own operations and logistics, where everyone else is more or less reliant on the Imperial Navy for transport.

[jaunty dawn]

but speaking of imperial armour in the first siege of vraks part the dark angels show up for 5 seconds to blow up a spaceport in a like, decade long campaign

as an illustration of surgical strike

but also really chapters arent small at all, if they were any bigger they wouldnt really be chapters anymore

[floral herald]

Yeah in terms of overall strength a Space Marine Chapter is basically an independent battlefleet with a very elite special operations component

[jaunty dawn]

the idea theres only a thousand of them is dumb but its also like, way less an established fact so whatever

thousand chapters I mean

[paper bluff]

You could be like the black templars and only have a guesstimate of numbers

[thin ibex]

space wolves too

[uneven ember]

I'm fine with the SM numbers as long as we assume "the Guard were also there" is a constant but unstated factor.

[paper bluff]

A single custodian showed up and changed things

[solemn gull]

I know there was a inq28 campaign that inspired some inquisition books but always wondered if someone wrote the Crimson Fists story after they got annihilated by orks but managed to win the match

[solemn gull]

I don’t think that’s accurate in universe though. Like how many chapters get replaced only for the originals to pop out of the warp storm they were lost in after 200 years.

[jaunty dawn]

i would agree

sjust often quoted

[solemn gull]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like its just like poetic licence for a cool quote

[solemn gull]

People probably believe it in universe but it also takes 40 years for terra to hear that a planet was lost (at the fastest)

[unreal cosmos]

Two Thin Coats metallics go on so fucking good, if I had these when I first got the CSM combat patrol they would have been Iron Warriors 100%

[uneven ember]

Behind the Bastards did make a really interesting point, IMO
On how Space Marines were inspired to a degree by a lot of the stories of British colonial victories in wildly numerically uneven battles.
To the point that a lot of the really early Space Marine artwork is directly inspired by the colonial adventure paintings of the time, sometimes specific paintings.

[unreal cosmos]

Huh!

[jaunty dawn]

maxim gun was horrific

[solemn gull]

I’ve never heard that story

Interesting

[uneven ember]

Yeah, what was really happening was that one side had actual machine guns and one side didn't.
But almost none of the accounts distributed to the public even mentioned the Maxim gun, and none of the pictures featured it.
It was all British soldiers facing down 10-to-1 odds with bolt action rifles and knives because By Jingo One Stout Tommy etc etc

[past sphinx]

maxim, yet another creation in the tradition of building something so fucked you think it will end human conflict

only for it to make everything worse

[finite compass]

Imperial Armour also doubled down on Space Marines being super-specialized for pinpoint strikes

[runic swallow]

Oh yeah, a lot of the early Warhammer art is very much taking inspiration from British Empire propaganda images/Boys Adventure magazines, etc

[finite compass]

Thinking specifically of the first Vraks book. Which also had the Space Marines in question start taking heavy losses against normal human forces when the circumstances of the battle forced their operation to stall.

[runic swallow]

It’s why everything is at such close range, because A) it looks cool and B) if you depict your self at bayonet range with th enemy it looks like you’re hardier and braver than the usual “we picked them off with rifle fire from 100m out or more”

Which then bled over to 40k, and also the scale of the minis meaning you’re having super close engagements

[desert jay]

Someone also joked about every official Tau art shows the Tau losing

Because there's no way the Tau should be that close to the enemy if they're winning

[thin ibex]

I only give them some slack for the cities of death art, they have to be that close

But otherwise yeah

[mental birch]

Which episode?

[uneven ember]

the one on Hiram Maxim

It's a brief tangent, the actual point he was making was about the disconnect in the public between the Maxim gun's massive impact in Britain's colonial battles and its complete absence from the popular culture about those battles, which attributed the British victories to the courage and skill of the riflemen, a disconnect on what war at the time fundamentally was that would hold until WWI shattered it.

the 40K connection is kind of an aside, because the host is a massive 40K nerd

[lucid scarab]

Went and listened to the episode because of this. Really interesting stuff!!

[lucid scarab]

I think it’s interesting that in Rogue Trader artwork you get a sense that they’re parodying some of those British paintings Behind the Bastards talks about. The marines are portrayed universally as kind of sucking shit. A heroic last stand where the goons of the emperor are being mowed down, sure they’re shooting back but half of them are dead. Most of the extra small flavorful artworks are of the marines acting like total fascist scumbags.

Like this guy is not the hero in this situation LOL

[thin ibex]

is that the normal orc?

from back then?

Because that means the guardsman's uplifting primer was right at one point

[lucid scarab]

Possibly? In the Rogue Trader rulebook orcs have a pretty varied look

[upper bluff]

I like the ganger being arrested in front of the graffiti if only because it looks like it says "Marines Lol"

[pulsar cairn]

Also those marines are either real short or that guy is just real tall

[jaunty dawn]

real tall is more likely I think

[lucid scarab]

Accurate to the table top. RTB01 is a very very squat kit lol

Got this sticker at adepticon from another oldhammer head

[pulsar cairn]

oldhammer has it's charm

[finite compass]

My edition was 3rd

Aesthetically

Both the models and the art

[valid brook]

hell yeah Karl Kopinski and Wayne England

[ebon forge]

Stronger Eldar

[paper bluff]

I've still got a theory that the eldar are the brain boys and that the krork and eldar were a combined arms system with the eldar handling the waaagh energy to use and using it as direct tactical feed back/orders

[ebon forge]

Would be sick to see an army composed by the two

[unreal cosmos]

Oh that's a fun twist.

[solemn gull]

I wish they would bring back rogue trader for a reprint the way they are doing warhammer fantasy

Imagine looking across from your 10th edition game and seeing a player using the old cardboard turn angle to drift their rhino into a gretchen squad

[pastel rampart]

You'd be on turn 4 of your 10th ed game by the time they're done with turn 1.

[unreal cosmos]

Hey, odd question: how OOC would it be for, say, Abaddon to approach some planet that joined him and go "here's geneseed, here's how to produce astartes arms and armor, make me some Boys"

Astartes are almost always very much in charge of their homeplanets so it's made me wonder how you could arrive at a situation where they have mortal handlers

[finite compass]

Highly unlikely

[solemn gull]

Well I doubt a imperial planet would do that so it would probably have to be a uncontacted world

Also they already have plenty of demon worlds doing that

[finite compass]

Yes, but the Marines aren't the subordinate partners on those

[upper canopy]

Abbadon personally? Probably OOC.

Some Guy? Totally.

[finite compass]

And manufacturing gene-seed is a rather laborious process.

[tired cairn]

Didn't they do a Rogue Trader reprint?

[unreal cosmos]

I was wondering if it could be a Perterabo move

[upper canopy]

An Iron Warrior would 100% do this

[unreal cosmos]

IW seeds are very stable right?

[finite compass]

IW are stable

[upper canopy]

raid a geneseed store and just be like

"Hey fuck it, give the excess to these mooks"

[tired cairn]

Though if you mean a reboot, that would be necessary because my understanding of the Rogue Trader rules is that they were very much not complete lol

[finite compass]

But they've also, canonically, just raided loyalist geneseed stores to make more marines

[solemn gull]

I think it could be a alpha legion move

[finite compass]

Because it's easier than cultivating it from scratch

[solemn gull]

Especially if they make the marines sleeper agents or something

[unreal cosmos]

I was specifically thinking about like, some kinda Cyberpunk Chaos situation where you have a corrupted megacorp rolling out supersoldier goons.

[solemn gull]

That’s already kind of a thing

[finite compass]

Astartes, probably not

HOWEVER

You totally get shit like the Maltech Stalkers in Dark Heresy

Which are a cult trying to manufacture supersoldiers

With cybernetics and gene-tampering

[unreal cosmos]

oooo

I'm also down for storebrand space marines, lol

[solemn gull]

Yeah there are plenty of ways to make “knock off space marines”

[finite compass]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Maletek_Stalker

There's also Gland Warriors

[solemn gull]

Like Goliaths from necromunda are a good jumping off point. Made from test tubes and gene-smithing. Slap some parts on them and you got your murder cyborg

[finite compass]

Who are guardsmen who have had a bunch of new and terrifying organs shoved into them to survive on toxic worlds, and/or create combat drugs on demand

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gland_Warriors

Goliaths are a great jumping-off point

[upper canopy]

Yeah there's a bunch of way to make soldiers on par with Astartes without making full astartes

Just clone Ogryn

[finite compass]

The Alpha Legion also likes to enhance their agents

Using similar techniques to making Space Marines

[unreal cosmos]

Oh I also remember my other idea, "IW warband that had a slave revolt"

[upper canopy]

also works

[floral herald]

Super plausible imo, but he’d need to have some trusted lieutenant present

[unreal cosmos]

oh yeah you'd at least want some apothecaries to oversee things

[floral herald]

You don’t get to like 800k space marines under (nominal) arms without being willing to delegate like that imo

[paper bluff]

It's funny that what makes a world eater these days is not the implantation of geneseed but rather the implantation of the butcher's nails

[finite compass]

I think pretty much all of the god-aligned legions have super mutated/unstable geneseed anyway

[pulsar cairn]

is that an ork pretending to be an eldar?

[paper bluff]

I still wonder and to my knowledge has not been explained, how one gets gene seed from the primarch. Yeah they're a template but... ya know can you just take some primarch cells and make some geneseed?

[finite compass]

I don't think it's ever really been explained.

[pastel rampart]

iirc a primarch can generate a constant supply of geneseed, unlike normal space marines who can only generate one extra geneseed.

[paper bluff]

So one would get "pure stock" geneseed from gman and the lion in modern 40k?

[pastel rampart]

Yup

[paper bluff]

You know what? I bet you could also with angron but no.... you do not want to be close to angron

[pastel rampart]

I think it's a reasonable assumption that any daemon primarch is too warped to be able to harvest geneseed from.

Got too much of the daemon in them. Each of the Primarch have a little bit of the warp-stuff in them but the daemonic kind dipped too much into that and their bodies are merely shells when in the material plane.

[desert jay]

See this just makes me want a special episode where BTB guy just talks about 40K and its historical references and parallels

[paper bluff]

I imagine the same would be true of corax

[pastel rampart]

Oh absolutely, Raven Guard ain't gettin' no pure geneseed out of ol' Corvus.

[unreal cosmos]

So hey. What's up with the Astraeus. Is it any good?

[desert jay]

TBF, like 80% of what was up with pre-daemon Angron was just the literally-rage-inducing brain surgery

And most of the rest was family drama

[tired cairn]

I hear Angron is pretty chill when he is in the warp

(because the nails don't affect him)

[finite compass]

And I hear Kharn is a pretty cool guy

I actually do love his characterization in the HH novels

[tired cairn]

Kharn will at least stab you in your front

[unreal cosmos]

I tried to make a force by slapping together the last two starting boxes and then filling the rest out with as few purchases as possible, how fucked is this

I'm trying to find a good way to embed New Recruit files

https://gyazo.com/518f2f0437c952284c8db31cb504d7da this will do

[uneven ember]

I would absolutely watch Robert Evans talk about 40K's historical references and parallels

[still warren]

I want the the april fool's episode about the Biggest Bastard ever, the Emperor

[peak olive]

Space Marine Primarch Maggie Thatcher lol

[upper canopy]

I need to make a 1k ogres list for 4th edition

Gonna be in a narrative campaign

[dense sedge]

fun

I wonder what events my local GW does

[lucid scarab]

Dreadnought time

[still warren]

The spearhead for ogres is 990 points exactly if you like what it has

[finite compass]

Now that's some Oldhammer

[paper bluff]

I like to imagine that the world eaters very much had the empathy that pre nails angron showed but that worked very very very much against them later on

They wanted to share their primarch's pain and understand him. And we know how that went

[pastel rampart]

https://fxtwitter.com/mixuen_chan/status/1814622283249688979

[solemn gull]

Damn he has some wide legs

Or maybe long?

[pulsar cairn]

not even heresy cause i feel like those cuties would be classified in the same way the tech apes were

orangutans

[paper bluff]

Jokaero

[solemn gull]

The jokaero aren’t heretics they are xenos?

[pulsar cairn]

no what i meant

jokaero are considered familiars or something from what i remember

which means that you can probably have one withou being labeled as a heretic

[mental birch]

hehehe

OH!

Combat Patrol is amazing as a teaching tool

it's so pared down

but with the core of standing on objectives

[unreal cosmos]

Oh nice

[paper bluff]

You never hear about an ork freeboota with a jokaero on his shoulder

[bold halo]

because they're orangutans, not tiny monkeys

[plucky token]

Depending on the ork, they could still be tiny monkeys

[unreal cosmos]

An idea stumbled into my head when I was pondering how I'd want to paint an Intercession Squad KT

[sour sequoia]

Got to play baby’s first tourney today

First time playing in person in like 10 years

Deadass could almost cry rn

[floral herald]

Good or bad?

[sour sequoia]

Oh shit i didnt come back to this oops

Good cryin

I got my ass BEAT but the community here is actually fuckin lit

[mental birch]

Niceee

What did you bring.

[sour sequoia]

Necrons babey here one sec

Necrons
Awakened Dynasty
Strike Force (2000 Points)

CHARACTERS

Chronomancer (80 Points)
    • 1x Chronomancer’s stave
    • Enhancements: Enaegic Dermal Bond

Illuminor Szeras (175 Points)
    • 1x Eldritch Lance
      1x Impaling legs

Lokhust Lord (100 Points)
    • 1x Staff of light
    • Enhancements: Veil of Darkness

Overlord with Translocation Shroud (85 Points)
    • 1x Overlord’s blade
      1x Resurrection Orb

Plasmancer (85 Points)
    • 1x Plasmic lance
    • Enhancements: Nether-realm Casket

Technomancer (85 Points)
    • 1x Staff of light

BATTLELINE

Necron Warriors (200 Points)
    • 20x Necron Warrior
        • 20x Close combat weapon
          20x Gauss flayer

Necron Warriors (200 Points)
    • 20x Necron Warrior
        • 20x Close combat weapon
          20x Gauss reaper

OTHER DATASHEETS

Canoptek Scarab Swarms (40 Points)
    • 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
        • 3x Feeder mandibles

Canoptek Wraiths (250 Points)
    • 6x Canoptek Wraith
        • 6x Vicious claws
        • 6x Particle casters

Lokhust Heavy Destroyers (150 Points)
    • 3x Lokhust Heavy Destroyer
        • 3x Close combat weapon
          3x Enmitic exterminator

Lychguard (170 Points)
    • 10x Lychguard
        • 10x Warscythe

Monolith (375 Points)
    • 4x Death Ray
      1x Particle whip
      1x Portal of exile```

built to fight orkz, since we had some dark lance spam drukhari and SoB Melta Moments Compilation also on the squad rotation

And then I fought Custodes -> GK -> TSons, got thrashed just abt every time. Made Grey Knights work their ass off for it though.

[mental birch]

Awww

[cinder wraith]

hi chat

i am making a raid boss for my campaign

its like the final boss and a raid boss at the same time

also please DO NOT SHARE

tldr: a book from the black library was found and it contains knowledge of the forgotten gods and daemons of chaos which brought them back into the warp creating an imbalance in reality

[cinder wraith]

maybe i'll add another funky ability which is summoning undivided daemons

[paper bluff]

yeah them devistating will got you

[paper bluff]

what system?

[cinder wraith]

40k

[unreal cosmos]

Hey just how common/understood is hybrid geneseed?

[floral herald]

I don't think its super common or understood but not unheard of

[unreal cosmos]

Yet another custom chapter is rattling around in my head and I realize they kinda have DA/SW vibes to them

Some Neopagan Arthurian

[past sphinx]

Why don't tau have artillery

Theirs airbrust launchers but nothing more chonk

[bright dove]

Railguns good.

[floral herald]

They do though

[pastel rampart]

They have artillery, they just don't bring that shit to the frontline.

[floral herald]

There’s also the Sky Ray

Though it’s weird in 10e

Probably a casualty of the clamp-down on indirect

[pastel rampart]

Oh right yeah, that thing.

I always mentally put it in the "the Tau version of the Whirlwind" category even if I know it isn't exactly that.

[floral herald]

I’ll always remember then weird 4e/5e Sky Ray

Which just had 6 seeker missiles it could shoot are markerlit targets

Then it kind of did fuck all

[runic swallow]

I guess they also have some Laser-Guided TOW equivalents on vehicles that use the Markerlights?
Also, man, that whole “Tau are based on Gulf War US Military” thing makes so much sense with how it makes basically every unit a Forward Air Controller or artillery spotter

Oh, maybe the Sky Ray was what I was thinking of now that you mention it?

[floral herald]

Iirc a bunch of vehicles can have a seeker missile (similar to imperial H-K missiles) but the Sky Ray just has a whole rack of em

[pastel rampart]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91plIFybvmL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

I think they were trying to really sell that with the paint scheme, which is very desert-y.

[thin ibex]

Tha tau use guided missiles yeah, not free flying shelling

One of the things that's poorly communicated is that they use loitering aircraft with networked connection to ground elements. Ground element designates a target and the aircraft deploys seekers

Sky rays being a forward vehicle with a similar role but also the means to designate its own targets

Aside from that, railguns are a form of extreme range direct fire artillery

[thin ibex]

Tbf if an alpha strike of 6 seekers didn't outright destroy a target, it was putting a sizable dent in something.

I think it kept the limited arsenal even into like 8th iirc, and tau were very very good at targeting a single toy and removing it

I remember doing some online play and no matter how well my opponent thought they'd protected something or how tough they thought it was, I could remove it from the field pretty reliably

[jaunty dawn]

tau have a lot of things that are like

featured in various future soldier programme concepts

like universal tacnet integration etc

[thin ibex]

Oh yeah also because it's canon, the tau nar does have a pulse bombardment configuration iirc

[pastel rampart]

I think that's part of why they're so fun as a concept, because they're modern combat sensibilities brushing up against WW1 trenchers.

[thin ibex]

Iirc canonically tau frequently fight outnumbered and come out on top thanks to their tech and integrated tactics rather than like super soldiers n such

[jaunty dawn]

yeah they know about combined arms and maneuver warfare

I also have a hc/interpretation that this was first exemplified in the choice of the fire caste as the warrior caste and not the earth one

since both were cultures with significant military prowess in their own rights

[thin ibex]

yeah, they ended up focusing around mobile application of precision firepower as their like... compass north militarily

rather than bastion building

its a bit funny with how important pathfinders are to the tau military that they kind of play second fiddle to the stealthsuit teams on the table (not to say the stealthsuits arent also important)

[uneven ember]

They continue to be the only people in the 41st Millennium looking at swords and going "but... fucking why have you not heard of guns"

[thin ibex]

since intel gathering is like... of utmost importance to their combat style

[thin ibex]

after the updates whats the comp thought on the inner circle/deathwing deatch for DA?

i feel like terminators arent super killy, but htey are very hard to kill efficiently

so if you play objectives well, you can be incredibly stubborn o nstuff

espcially deathwing

especially if you are using a first turn drop on an important obj

[past sphinx]

You know I don't think the USNC has a mortar either

[thin ibex]

cant remember ever seeing one

i think they generally use airstrikes or orbital support to accomplish the same goals

since their whole like military set up involves deployment from space or air

including their vehicles and hardware

[tepid stratus]

Nothing infantry operated but they do have self propelled artillery

Kodiak I think they're called

[jaunty dawn]

also tau do have artillery they just use railguns

like there's a reason the broadside battlesuit originally had upwards tilted guns

although not in the sense of like, guess range weapons

just los ignoring seekers

but that's partially like, more realistic minimum ranges for a ballistic trajectory yeah

[thin ibex]

They just don't use like saturation bombardment strategies

[jaunty dawn]

they don't have field artillery (cause they have sophisticated missile artillery and drone warfare)

[thin ibex]

Yeah

[tepid stratus]

Well the books do make mention of ion artillery operated by demiurge (votan) gun crews but that's pre votan lore

Also space lasers

They uh, have straight up turned moons into laser platforms before

[thin ibex]

While fair, I'm reasonably sure that they're still focused around using those with intention and precision, with specific targets.

Rather than bombardment for wide area indiscriminate destruction

[tepid stratus]

The laser was used to delete a hive city they thought too costly to take so but of column A bit of column B

[desert jay]

https://vxtwitter.com/jetblackraider/status/1814476132244435394

[dense sedge]

drukhari have a fun aesthetic

I wish we got more sexy drukhari

[upper canopy]

all of them???

[jaunty dawn]

that wont happen cause gw doesnt know sex exists

[runic swallow]

They know, it just reduces sales of parents buying kits for their kids

[jaunty dawn]

nope

they have never known

individuals have known and since gw doesnt know they were unable to stop them

[runic swallow]

Hah you clearly forget the titty models they banished to the shadow realm

[jaunty dawn]

even when gw does tity its sexless

[white mural]

They do give cake up genestealers and vampires uwu

[pastel rampart]

the Diaz daemonettes are the closest GW has gotten to sexy.

Well, Fyreslayers might be sexy to people into leatherdaddies I guess.

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah no those are good

gonna add that to the list of times where an individual has managed to sneak sexy past the gestalt entity of James Workshop

[pastel rampart]

GW was still a bit more loosie-goosie with stuff back then.

4th was when they started locking that shit down.

[jaunty dawn]

mm

yeah it was wild these were only around for 3rd

what a timeline

stupid sexy blip

[pastel rampart]

I like the big claw baldies, they have a goofyness to them.

[jaunty dawn]

this is kinda what I mean though like it is a blip

[pastel rampart]

The current plastic daemonettes (and bloodletters) are the longest they've gone without a redesign.

[jaunty dawn]

and I dont think like, despite being profoundly sexless, the current (and apparently ancient) ones really settle parents concerns

that and 'slaanesh is being squatted any day now cause kids are dumb' has been a dumb rumour for 20 years with literally nothing coming of it

[pastel rampart]

Yeah it's really silly to see people still parrot that.

[jaunty dawn]

blissbarb archers are quite nice now looking at them

and egalitarian

[pastel rampart]

Also geez the daemonettes came out in 2008.

[jaunty dawn]

i like this model a lot

[uneven ember]

I feel like the daemonettes could use a more... dynamic? kind of design.

[pastel rampart]

Bloodletters, same year. Pink horrors, 2010. Plaguebearers, 2013.

[jaunty dawn]

i think also whats rare is the eavy metal paintjob flattering the model so well

[dense sedge]

I'm hoping we get new basic deamons this edition

I like the mortal units that Hedonittes have

[pastel rampart]

Blue horrors got a reboot in 2017 so I can't see why not, but if they haven't done it now...

[jaunty dawn]

that would be nice

[dense sedge]

I usually prefer Tzeentch but tzeentch's mortal units are very meh

[uneven ember]

Titty daemon-ness aside, I really think the dancing thing in the 3rd edition design works so well

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Daemons Notably this list is missing the metal plaguebearer command squad coming out in 2007.

[jaunty dawn]

it does!

[pastel rampart]

3rd ed daemonettes looked good but they constantly, constantly fell face-first because of their forward-heavy poses.

And those claws? Separate pieces.

So guess what flew off a lot!

[jaunty dawn]

oh oof

[dense sedge]

I do like the sexy deamonettes, hedonittes are basically all GW can get away with though

[jaunty dawn]

28mm bases might help with that though

[pastel rampart]

They were on 25mm bases, which everything was at the time.

[jaunty dawn]

idk if they even make 28 slottas mind

[dense sedge]

fiends and bloodwrack medusa are the only tiddy models left, some are best gone (morathi's old design was a bit much) and it does help with younger audiences, doubt my parents would have gotten us into warhammer back in elementary school if they'd seen breasts on the models

[jaunty dawn]

sylvaneth have it but no nipple

[dense sedge]

although young me did like looking at some of the more procative khainite art

[jaunty dawn]

elf ghost loophole

[pastel rampart]

Oh daemonettes are still on 25mm, huh.

[thin ibex]

What's the deal with crabs and slaanesh

Is it implying a deep seated relation to excess when it comes to crabs?

Do people in the 40k universe find crabs sexy?

[floral herald]

It’s in the nature of being to become crab

[rocky shale]

GW being afraid of provacative models just means that etsy miniature modellers have an uncontested market

[jaunty dawn]

not anymore 🙃

well depends how provocative

[rocky shale]

What's a little tragic is when the etsy models are really cool but just a little toooo provocative

Like right at the edge of "if I bring this to the LGS people are gonna give me looks"

[jaunty dawn]

mood

[rocky shale]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1261709438/amish-avatar-lord-of-battle-space-elf-3d Like I really like this AoK model overall but its a little bit much.

Or most of the fem AoK models tbh

[jaunty dawn]

oh that fucks

[rocky shale]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1592353031/avatar-lord-of-battle-space-elf-wraith This one is pretty sick too

The official AoK model is super cool too tbh

[jaunty dawn]

fem aok is very compelling for aos

[rocky shale]

The AoS AoK is the T-posing one right

[jaunty dawn]

technically I think

mostly just mean for morathi reasons

[rocky shale]

Ohhhh yeah

[uneven ember]

(personal interpretation of symbolism unsupported by 40K text)

[rocky shale]

Im planning on going the etsy route for the finecast/metal-only aspect warriors once I finish my current aeldari stuff

There's a lot of awesome sculpts and I refuse to buy finecast models from before I was born

[jaunty dawn]

although even in 40k howling banshees are a thing so

[rocky shale]

I really like the banshee sculpts

[jaunty dawn]

i like some of the creature caster stuff

not tzeentch and not slaanesh especially

[uneven ember]

the daemons of Slaanesh have crab claws because they are constantly reaching and grasping, but incapable of simply holding or possessing.
Whatever they can take, they cannot help but destroy. They can only discard it and return to reaching.

[jaunty dawn]

malifica and ecstasy

[jaunty dawn]

Deathwatch cancelled????

[thin ibex]

like

the faction?

[jaunty dawn]

kinda

they're being kinda vague about it but it seems like deathwatch is being rolled into agents of the imperium

and it seems like they're losing their unique detachment??

and possibly even losing primaris kill teams?

[thin ibex]

i do feel a bit that the writing was on the wall a bit

[jaunty dawn]

grey knights and battle sister squads, and dedicated transports for them, are now being added to agents of the imperium

[thin ibex]

i cant imagine GK are being retired too... unless you mean like they'rej ust also being added

[jaunty dawn]

in a new category (recquisitioned) with a 1/1/2 progression instead of the 1/2/3 of the existing categories

just being added

[thin ibex]

i do like that a lot

actually

[jaunty dawn]

grey knights codex is confirmed at the foot of the article which is kinda another nail in the deathwatch coffin

[thin ibex]

being able to guest appear GK and SoB units seem fun

[jaunty dawn]

you can also run agents as main faction with 4 detachments, and you can include grey knights or SoB in them

[thin ibex]

and ive sort of maintained that i think the deathwatch make more sense as an agent than their own army personally (though i also kind of think that GK make more sense as a portfolio of allieds than a whole army; but whatevs)

[jaunty dawn]

also new coteaz mini

[thin ibex]

new coteaz is neat

[jaunty dawn]

deathwatch are also gonna be able to be added to any imperium army now though

using the original two categories I think

I mean that's like

4 units if primaris kill teams are removed

(2 watch masters, vet kill team, blackstar)

[thin ibex]

think they'll get their anti xeno's role more clearly defined or somesuch?

[jaunty dawn]

wonder if a dedicated primaris update to the kill team is forthcoming

I think the way they do it now is kinda cooler but having primaris options for the unique stuff would be cool too

detachments are one for each major ordo + an imperial navy one

feels kinda weird you can't get stromtroopers in inquistion at all though

especially with how the kill team shaped out

[thin ibex]

im of the weird mind that like, while the GK army and detach are super cool; its especially weird that they can be fielded as an army against any old opponent despite being SUPER SECRET, DEDICATED, anti daemonic warriors

yeah

and i dont think they can access tempestus scions

can they?

[jaunty dawn]

like if you wanted a inquistion with stormtroopers vibe you kinda have to go imperial guard with inquisitor added

interestingly it's terminator squads specifically for gk

[thin ibex]

tbf that's like their... classic no?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it makes some sense

[thin ibex]

also means their clear role as elites in any army they get added to works

will they benefit from the existing detachment for agents or retain their teleport shenanigans?

[south axle]

NGL, new Coteaz kinda feels like a glow-down imo

[jaunty dawn]

I agreee

[south axle]

His armour feels so bare

Old Coteaz

[paper bluff]

I was about to say that!

[south axle]

He lost his sculpted abs D:

[paper bluff]

He looks so much like "just a guy"

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I honestly thought it was just a generic inquisitor model

in the video

inspired by coteaz but not. actually meant to be him

honestly kinda weird they didn't make a generic inquisitor in plastic

[paper bluff]

Why the separate base for the eagle i wonder

[jaunty dawn]

given they are trying so hard to get rid of remaining resin

probably a token

or well probably thats what the rules team will do with it

model wise I think they just wanted to make the eagle cooler haha

[paper bluff]

Is mr armchair resin?

[south axle]

I like that the eagle is a "token" instead of stationary on him

[thin ibex]

he got taller, but at what cost

[south axle]

He also got wider shoulders, but at a great cost

[thin ibex]

the eagle got a glow up tho

[pine matrix]

That's a dope ass eagle

Also he looks younger, lmao

Got those rejuv treatments and a hair transplant

[bright dove]

The sisters are going to have to keep an eye out for any anti-daemon rituals. 😛

[thin ibex]

oof

my dreams of imperial soup get reignited

and cross disciplinary armies are cool

like guard but using a unit of GK termies as your elites (poor guardsmen)

or featuring a SoB unit with the guard as a joint op or something

[lucid scarab]

Really think Custodes should be Agents of the imperium too tbh

[thin ibex]

agreed

they're perfectly fit to be anyone elses elite option

[lucid scarab]

Reduce codex bloat too

[thin ibex]

well, not totally against custodes being an army either, while rare, in recent years they absolutely have gone out and aggressed a bit

my thing with Deathwatch is they operate in independent kill teams usually, and are dedicated xeno hunters; and GK are specialized, ultra secret daemon hunters

neither of them are generalists; even if power armor and high powered weaponry are

[pastel rampart]

Oh that Coteaz looks awful, what have they done to my boy

[thin ibex]

maybe its a coteaz hoologram, like aun va

i do wonder if we're going to get any new ethereal characters since both that existed are gone now

[jaunty dawn]

custodes have a ton of units

specially cause of heresy

[rocky shale]

I love the idea of agents but if the codex is full of janky anti-daemon or anti-xenos tags it's gonna be a real letdown

[tired cairn]

I do find having a focus on anti-(group of factions) annoying as an army trait. I don't think it's very fun improving, especially in casual contexts

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akISqFaBLBA

Casually 40k related

[rocky shale]

Yeah I want to like this army enough to collect but my fear is that the rules are going to be all over the place

I do like that the Blackstone fortress models are making an appearance

[tepid stratus]

Hated this in 8th edition. My emperors children was countered by bonuses eldar and iron hands got against slaanesh and EC specifically and both armies were very popular at the time. EC meanwhile had no such abilities to even things out.

[upper bluff]

I can see why the imperial agents codex didn't get a big announcement it seems kinda sad

Like I was expecting a big updated range or new units to fill the gaps but instead it's kinda just imperial soup. Also your army rule is: "you can choose a detachment"

[thin ibex]

i feel like crusade did the sort of rivalry a bit better with wolves and da; but I can see it being kind of shitty when a faction has anti you but you don't have anything making you any stronger against them

[jaunty dawn]

thats mean to stormcast

[thin ibex]

hmm

an alpha legion chaos army might be fun

but thats a lot of models

[valid brook]

Jayposting on pnet

[past sphinx]

I'm glad I havr an old smashlord around

[valid brook]

Can’t believe they did Cortez like that; at least the bird looks good, another quality Freaky Lil Guy

[upper canopy]

I don't get why people are disliking the Cortez model tbh

it looks the same to me

[thin ibex]

the armor details are fairly different imo

the gorget is gone, the pauldrons are single plates and bigger, the gauntlet actually looks similar, the chest plate has less detailing

i think the gorget being gone is a big change

[paper bluff]

He looks pretty boring. Like the sculpter didn't get to put more details on

[thin ibex]

to me they more heavily modeled the armor off of basic space marine armor

[paper bluff]

Well look at the guy on the cover for this/old codex and they could have fancied up the armor a little

[arctic lynx]

The new Cortez armour looks made for freehanded details and NMM.

[soft willow]

Or for gluing like 20 extra purity seals on it.

[arctic lynx]

Get out the hairdryer and set them up right and you can make a tunic

[pastel rampart]

https://fxtwitter.com/cubicle7/status/1815393870164705671

[tired cairn]

I think I would have ordered Coteaz's eagle roosting on the pole instead of the weird wing connection thing

Also, how long do you think the Imperium took to breed and/or geneedit such a creature lol

[past sphinx]

Hes so smootg

Smooth

Like a wee babe

Like he's been child proofed

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/FortykW/status/1815428207480324530

[thin ibex]

theres currently no way to field hte lion and roboute in the same game right

on one side*

except like... doubles game?

[upper bluff]

Correct

You can't have epic heroes from multiple space marine chapters

[runic swallow]

My god, they took Coteaz’s tabard, can’t have shit in the 42nd millennium

Seriously, I think giving him his fur and tabard back would help the mini look less dull

[soft willow]

Gotta get the green stuff out.

[paper bluff]

However long it took arkan land to make that one monkey

[past sphinx]

That was a jokero no?