Warhammer and Such

[desert jay]

Looks about right, I think you technically need a leader tho

Slightly on the armor-heavy side but that's fine I guess

[peak olive]

There’s no Gretchin HQ

[upper bluff]

There's Zodgrod WartSnagga

And if you're cool with legends there's the Grotmas Gitz

Although Zodgrod is just an orc

[peak olive]

Exactly

[thin ibex]

Tbf you got runtherds in there too

and those are orks

[spice flicker]

This is just a general crusade question that a friend asked me and I was curious how would you rule it. GW said to be an emperor's children army you must have Lucius as your warlord yet taking epic heroes is discouraged in crusade. Would you keep that requirement if someone wanted to play EC or let them ignore that but still need a slaanesh devoted leader?

[solemn gull]

You shouldn’t have any requirements or rulings like that. It’s narrative play the game should be a engine to tell a cool story of “your dudes”

[jaunty dawn]

id just give them noise marines battleline

[spice flicker]

That's what I was thinking too but was seeing what other people thought as well.

[spice flicker]

As a reminder: the world of Goblin Slayer is a ttrpg with the "gods" being players and the characters just being npcs. So it looks like the gm might have grabbed a mini from a familiar game in the manga it seems. And iirc from what I am told this encounter did happen in the LN and the enemy was a "marine of chaos."

[paper bluff]

Does.... does the EC 8ndex not have "demon prince of slaanesh" as a warlord choice?

[spice flicker]

Nope if you want to officially play EC you are required to have Lucius as your warlord.

[paper bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/eww-god-no-nasty-gross-disgusting-gif-17172294

[spice flicker]

Yeah not a fan of that either

[jaunty dawn]

it's dumb

like they made a whole thing where you can actually select emperors children as your faction and then left the actual benefit to doing so on lucius and then made you take him

[thin ibex]

I would ignore the Lucius requirement, but yeah I'd pennant require the Warlord and units to take the mark of slaanesh

What even is the benefit of playing EC with lucius?

I know it's like, a bandaid

[paper bluff]

I just took a look and oh lordy it's an effin joke

[thin ibex]

So there's no actual benefit?

[paper bluff]

This isn't even an index, this is a chaos space marine detachment. Hell, null maiden vigil from the custodes is more developed as an army than this.. This is a nothing.

[tired cairn]

It's foreshadowing the eventual codex mostly

[soft willow]

It's a patch on the fact that you can't take them properly in the codex right now I thought.

[tired cairn]

What do you mean properly?

[floral herald]

I think it’s just covering their bases to avoid a weird EC-CSM list vs a codex EC list down the line

I don’t think there’s anything in the index which couldn’t be in the codex

[soft willow]

I thought Lucius wasn't? I could be wrong though.

[floral herald]

He’s not but he wouldn’t be hard to put in

[jaunty dawn]

the benefit is you can't take lucius any other way and you can't take noise marines as battleline/full heretic astartes keyword/over 500 points any other way

[tired cairn]

Do Noise Marines not currently have the Heretic Astartes keyword?

[jaunty dawn]

not anymore

both lucius and noise marines are now emperors children

csm can take noise marines the same way they can the other cult units, but with the same downsides/restrictions

[floral herald]

Yeah they’re essentially “elites” in the old tongue now

[jaunty dawn]

scratch that a lil

[tired cairn]

Ah, I guess they makes sense

[jaunty dawn]

cult units do get heretic astartes

when taken as cult units

which is good cause I though they did but read something haha

especially cause I'm very tempted by non world eaters khorne list

[floral herald]

I remember someone early on saying they didn’t

CSM-Khorne “moon munchers” or something seems like a really fun list

[jaunty dawn]

so yeah the big one is taking lucius at all, and taking more than 500 pts of noise marines

[tired cairn]

I think the index didn't originally give cult marines the keyword

I don't know why they made Lucious the cause of noise marine battleline and not the army rule

[jaunty dawn]

its not even a detachment

you still get the standard csm detachment choices

its just to make the printed csm book compatible with the future ec codex

namely, the fact that the cult rule now lets you take noise marines already

so when ec comes out properly as not a hacky version of csm, codex csm doesn't need errata

[tired cairn]

Really "you can only take slaanash stuff but you get battleline noise marines and can take Lucius" would have been more reasonable

[jaunty dawn]

no absolutely

like they added this whole emperors children faction rule

which gives a place where they can put battleline noise marines

hell noise marines can just have the battleline keyword now

the other cult troops do

[tired cairn]

Oh, like by default?

I guess because it's on the datasheet

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[tired cairn]

Very silly it is not for noise marines then lol

[jaunty dawn]

the lucius thing is just bizarre

[paper bluff]

This seems like a foreshadowing in the way that elder scrolls 6 title frame was a foreshadowing

[tired cairn]

lol

[desert jay]

It doesn't even get its own detachment, really it's just an extended special rule for Lucius

EC will probably be in 2025

(ie. Not this year, and not too close to 11e)

Yes I'm using the assumption of an 11e in 2026 to determing codex release cadence

[paper bluff]

Lore wise Eidelon is far far far more connected as a noise marine leader than lucius

Idk if aside from slaanesh and being EC connect noise marines and lucius

[floral herald]

And history wise Lucius’ model is older than Eidolon

[thin ibex]

lucius is outright the better known character, for better or worse

[desert jay]

Yeah Lucius has had a model and rules since 2002 (2nd 3e CSM codex)

Fabius, Abbadon, Kharn, Typhus, Lucius, and Ahriman are all in that codex

[floral herald]

I think Lucius’ second model is older than all but 1 reference to Eidolon

He’s just a much more established character

[pine matrix]

I thought Eidolon is dead in lore?

[raw vessel]

He got better

[paper bluff]

A certain man with a skin overcoat got to him

[thin ibex]

i feel like thats fabius, but i also feel like the skin overcoat isnt a specific desciptor when it comes to chaos. Skin is a surprisingly common fashion accessory

[pastel rampart]

Fabulous reattached Eidelon's head.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eidolon_(Emperor's_Children) He was dead for maybe like an hour, tops.

[jaunty dawn]

can you really blame a child of the emperor for being dramatic? ;P

[tired cairn]

I'm imagining a CSM who refers to all his leather accessories as skin to sound more edgy

[jaunty dawn]

if you want the real original emperor's child you want Doomrider

well, not really emperor's children but slaanesh at least

oh wait no apparently when he last appeared in a 2014 audio drama he is implied to maybe be an ascended emperor's children marine

when did fabius bile get made an ex emps child

[raw vessel]

In lore? The first two books of his series are about him basically saying fuck you to the idea of rejoining them.

[floral herald]

Wasn’t he always?

[desert jay]

Having your head reattached within the hour is basically CPR by space marine standards

[jaunty dawn]

it isn't mentioned in 3e codex 1

at least

[floral herald]

Huh interesting

[desert jay]

Who the fuck are these guys?

[thin ibex]

nkari i recognize

[jaunty dawn]

oh hey n'kari

supposedly eidolon's daemon boss (from index astartes 1)

[desert jay]

Those 4 daemon princes get rules in 2e CSM Chaos codex

Fabius and Cypher and Huron are also there, I didn't realize how long they've been around

[jaunty dawn]

yeah huron and badab war are pretty damn old

such iconic characters that will surely remain for two and a half decades

[desert jay]

Doomrider's current status is amusingly "beheaded, still alive, in custody of the White Scars"

[thin ibex]

oh he got outridden?

[desert jay]

Yes

They also smashed his jaw b/c the head wouldn't stop talking

[jaunty dawn]

what does doomrider even talk about

[thin ibex]

doom and riding prolly

[tired cairn]

Was he just shit talking the white scars biking skills the entire time?

[thin ibex]

i like to imagine its just ceaselss internet brainrot stuff

"Be silent doomrider, we know not of this 'mogging'"

[pastel rampart]

"Skibbidi rizz on your primarch's gyatt"
"Brother, please smash his jaw, he's regrown it again."

[paper bluff]

"Oh yeah bro, you gotta turbo that. Nah nah nah... not like that. You gotta reroute the into to the c section manifold, bro, I only supe my bike up that way. You know that they don't make bikes like they used to. Nah yeah totally true bro"

I also imagine an unpleasant moaning coming from the head every time the pike is changed

[jaunty dawn]

fabius biles 3.0 statline is wild

[thin ibex]

its all variable

wild

[jaunty dawn]

they toned it down in 3.5

[paper bluff]

The Huron book is pretty good and he makes a good point about the og traitor legions

[jaunty dawn]

but the lore is like 'he experiments on himself most of all so you might just catch him on a day he's a manlet'

[thin ibex]

i feel like fabius would turn himself into a pickle

[jaunty dawn]

he wouuld

[paper bluff]

Funniest thing I could ever imagine

In a way, at the end of his 3rd or was it second book ||he did||

Cause ||his super warp cancer got so bad, he just copied himself over to multiple bodies but those were but clones with their own agency with his wraithbone brain implant and the OG is in a tank on a crone word in a wraithbone Grove attended by by noise marines and Key||

[thin ibex]

spce wolves and repulsors don't really have a lot of native synergy do they?

only thought i had was stacking a 2 packs of long fangs decked out with missile launchers or lascannons into the normal one

[deft crest]

40k players i beseech your knowledge.
I wish to play khorne demons. I was going to get them for AoS but as my friend told me its getting a big edition switch so i'm better off building for 40k instead. Is khorne demons (bloodthirsters mainly with a spot for my big boyfriend skarbrand to be in) in a fun enough spot?

(please @ me if you reply)

[floral herald]

Daemons including mono-god just got a huge buff and Khorne is generally one of the better gods to mono so you should be good

[deft crest]

Hellyeah tyty

[solemn gull]

Also nice pick, khorne demons are a great first army since you can focus on learning specific parts of the game and getting them refined

[deft crest]

I used to play tau but i have lost all knowledge of which edition i even played em in

[solemn gull]

Not having to look up the rules for shooting or psychic powers mid-match is good for time saving

[deft crest]

i just wanna have dogs and demons and blood

[runic swallow]

I’m pretty sure that if you go pure daemon the same stuff you use for 40k will work in AoS

So honestly don’t worry about that too much

[deft crest]

Yeah i just dont want to end up with a subpar list for both if i try to build for both

Since i'm buying (or printing) sparingly

[runic swallow]

Unless things radically changed, a big ol’ ball of bloodthirsters and friends is gonna be generally pretty alright once they get in stabbing range

If you wanted to have fun just throw some space marine pauldrons on some of the AoS Khorne humans and they’ll work for either

Since half naked, covered in leather Conan berserkers works for either

[thin ibex]

are you planning to go into competetive?

cause if not, your "viability" range is a LOT bigger

generally, as far as i understand, bloodletters are "Ok", bloodthirsters are incredibly strong, blood crushers are good, hounds are never terrible, and the skullcannon is a surprisingly good ranged option

[desert jay]

Khorne probably has the best support of the four in 40k, if you're buying they're also who gets the value boxes

[thin ibex]

i forget if the soulforged unit is good for khorne, but its got strong melee either way

i forget, who actually is stronger on the board, angron or skarbrand? Im thinking angron has got more effects ongoing

[desert jay]

Angron is infamously killy, and as such he's been used as a measuring stick for other big centerpiece melee models

So you can find out how an Angron vs Skarbrand 1v1 goes

[rocky shale]

Angron comes back from the dead which is hard to beat

[desert jay]

TBF all daemons do unless you take special measures

[thin ibex]

itd be this v this

[tired cairn]

I thought there was something weird about AoS demons because of weird infighting with the Old World people?

But maybe I hallucinated this

[runic swallow]

I dunno, I’ve been literally out of the game for a while now

[upper bluff]

No I'm pretty sure just about every 40k Demon in the chaos daemons book can be used in AoS

Like they literally have the AoS logo on the box

So I guess the AoS demons can be used in 40k is a better way to put it

[thin ibex]

They're the most cross compatible army

And the only one

[thin ibex]

I think they're both hella killy, but flat damage 6 out of skarbrand is quite scary for angron

Either one of of em could die in a single fight phase though

But WE have better stratagems too

If skarbrand is kept safe to ensure a charge and fights first, via demonic manifestation, I think he takes it

[thin ibex]

It occurs to me that there are rules for skarbrand but not Anggrath

Narratively do we think anggrath is stronger than angron?

Oh he does have legends rules

When more wounds than skarbrand, same basic attack profile as angron

But counts as titanic

[dense sedge]

That is incredibly copyright dubious

[spice flicker]

I wonder which faction with a codex actually has the most fun and interesting special crusade rules?

[upper bluff]

I actually really like admechs rules

You have to complete your missions to gain crafting materials for Archeotech

Mash em together and you get a random item

Then there's also the legendary ones which take multiple successful missions before your final acquisition

[thin ibex]

kinda depends on your tastes tbh

I was fan of how flavorful the tau and nid ones were

the votann ones were pretty interactive but it was a lot of resource stacking

[paper bluff]

I have imperial knights, necrons, and custodes and have never done a crusade with any of them

Oh right! And world eaters

[floral herald]

New KT dataslate making me very happy

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/mVMatxuIveHaDNUd.pdf

Link

[deft crest]

time a shooting attack is made against this operative, 
the No Cover special rule has no effect for that 
shooting attack.’```

that would have helped

[floral herald]

That’s pretty strong

Esp with Skirmisher

[jaunty dawn]

ohh roster vs battle

I'm so foggy from allergies rn

[spice flicker]

How's this for a 2k sisters list?

Ordo Hereticus
Bringers of flame

Inquisitor, blessed wardings, combi-weapon, warlord
2x hospitaller
2x Palatine

2x10 battle sisters squads, heavy munitorum flamer, munitorum flamer

2x10 celestian Sacresants, Halberd, spear of the Faithful (hospitallers attached)
3x10 Dominion squads, all special guns are melta
5x Retributor Squad, multi-melta
5x seraphim squad, Inferno pistols on 2, plasma+power sword on leader

3x castigators with autocannons, HKM, Storm bolters
3x1 mortifiers, anchorite sacrophagus, flamers+buzz blades

[jaunty dawn]

how big is scouts now?

is this for crusade or

[spice flicker]

Theorycrafting

[tired cairn]

It's funny how the different chaos worshippers will get along enough to camp together (presumably staring daggers at each other) but will absolutely refuse to fight along each other

[floral herald]

10 fellas

[tired cairn]

(though I feel like an elite behind-enemy-lines squad would be an ok relaxation of that rule)

[floral herald]

Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked to see all restrictions for them dropped in the future

[deft crest]

I love that skarbrand just gets madder when below 7 hp

Literally all my other single entities: Roll to hit 1 less
Skarbrand: hit more

[thin ibex]

that used to be true for all bloodthirsters iirc

they gained attack counts

as their profile degraded

[floral herald]

Scouts and Hearthkyn seem like real dataslate winner to me

[thin ibex]

For kt?

[paper bluff]

Nonsense! I don't know any guard player that would take one of the guard flyers

[bright dove]

It has to compete with more tanks, yes.

[thin ibex]

I'll not a guard player, but I would take a flier if I played guard

[floral herald]

Yeah

[final tide]

it’s so u can see them on the table!!!

[past sphinx]

they are all very very short

need the hats

[finite compass]

If I had the money, I'd totally make a Catachan Air Cav army

For the Aesthetic

"Heretics Don't Surf"

[thin ibex]

Huey? No this is a valkyrie

man i know its just not in the scope of warhamerr 40k, it would be cool to explore like river patrol boats as a unit too

but its not like you can have water on every map

[paper bluff]

The idoneth deep kin would like to disagree

And hey, with grav tech starting to get used more, maybe guard grav boats become a thing

Remember we have president

[thin ibex]

tbf thats a grav chariot rather than a boat

even tho it looks like a boat

[finite compass]

They showed up in a novel, IIRC

[thin ibex]

i mean they absolutely exist within the scope of the setting for sure, im not even questioning that at least

[finite compass]

But I can see them being a thing. We don't have a lot of stuff about Blue Water Navy

[thin ibex]

i know chimera are also amphibious

[finite compass]

The only examples I can think of are Tyranids having aquatic-adapted organisms, Ork Submersibles that they used to attack Hive Tempestora. (Including Da Orkilus reportedly destroyed by an unknown monstrous organism dubbed 'Da Big Tentacly Fing')

And also that 1km long Blood Pact land carrier thing that doesn't count because it was a giant aircraft carrier on treads in the middle of a desert.

[thin ibex]

we had tau submersibles facing off against space wolves in an underwater engagement

the space wolves were just in land raiders driving underwater

[finite compass]

No official art of it, but

[thin ibex]

i imagine generally speaking, the guard doesn't standardize boats and navies because of their access to air and amphibious options; but i imagine local PDF's and regiments absolutely manage blue water navies when their world calls for one

and I imagine a force preparing to attack a planet will at least ask to get supplied with boats when they'd be useful

though noting hte administratum and imperial logistics, its a toss up if you get them

[paper bluff]

That is silly and dumb. Bless you 40k

[paper bluff]

The carcharadon also had some water based stuff

[desert jay]

It’s a law of scifi, the more accessible your orbital lift capability, the sillier it is to get in a boat

And as we all know 40k is a silly setting, the Guard should be dropping naval battleships from orbit

[solemn gull]

There’s necromunda rules for that

Sump Wars has boat rules

[thin ibex]

This I can get behind, it's absolutely in 40k's wheelhouse to bring ww2 battleships down to water from orbit

Heck, take a note from Supreme commander and make a boat that also walks

[solemn gull]

That would be an awesome mechanicus unit

I mean they already got a whole DaVinci/“tanks with legs” thing going on

[uneven ember]

I remember the ork submarines on Armageddon deploying troops

[jaunty dawn]

water is really hard to incorporate in 28mm I think

meaningful rivers alone are biiig

which is a shame cause I'd love to

[floral herald]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

the way current kill team season does it is pretty cool though

venice mordheim style game 🤔

[floral herald]

It is cool stuff yeah

That and ship-based maps are probably the best way to include it

[uneven ember]

Necromunda has always suggested "floor is lava" set-ups where the tabletop is toxic sludge, bottomless pits, w/e and all the fighting has to take place on the catwalks and roofs

[jaunty dawn]

I think the thing about water is like

I don't really want it to be floor is lava?

I want boats and swimming and frogmen n such

[floral herald]

Bheta Decima is all catwalks and such but it’s just a stormy polluted sea

(So it smokes to block LoS only)

[jaunty dawn]

but at the same time floor is lava as in water/etc is the default and terrain is ground

which is kinda what I like about bheta decima too

it is sensible and good yeah

I think maybe what I want is trench crusade but water instead of trenches

[floral herald]

Canal Crusade

[jaunty dawn]

yeah!!!

[uneven ember]

"State your first name, last name, and occupation"
"Lizard Man, Lizard Man, and... Lizard Man"

[pastel rampart]

That is, to my understanding, what TTCombat's Carnevale game is.

[jaunty dawn]

oh???

[pastel rampart]

https://ttcombat.com/collections/carnevale

The MDF terrain for it is fantastic

https://ttcombat.com/collections/streets-of-venice Loooook at this shit

[uneven ember]

oh wow
this is, what, etched wood?

[pastel rampart]

More or less, yeah. S'what MDF is.

[solemn gull]

Industrial pressed saw dust

[pastel rampart]

Laser-cut stuff. It's much more affordable compared to plastic terrain, though it has a very specific look and often very uh...square.

[jaunty dawn]

oh niceee

little canal boat!

gondolier

gondola?

fishmen!!!

wowww

[pastel rampart]

I haven't given it much of a look but it's popular.

[jaunty dawn]

this is so much stuff

65 pounds

[uneven ember]

(Imperial Navy ship name: the Lorum Ipsem)

[pine matrix]

I started wondering what sort of blue-water ships Eldar or Necrons would have but I guess they have so much hover technology it'd be a moot point

[soft willow]

Falcon grav [tank/boat] (Fill in based on battlefield terrain)

[uneven ember]

I feel like the Necrons especially would just tool around on the seabed if they needed to
Pylons and monoliths rising from the water

[finite compass]

Tomb world that's flooded over the past 60 million years gets woken up

So you just casually have something like a Cairn-class Tombship rising out of the ocean abyss

Being about 10km across

[uneven ember]

hell yeah

[finite compass]

I know Warhammer Fantasy had ship rules with the General's Compendium

[pastel rampart]

Hell, it had a spin-off game called Man O' War.

[finite compass]

I mean the GC stuff was using ships in warhammer-scale battles

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, which at the time seemed a bit of a poor fit because like...how big of a river feature do you even put on there.

I remember reading it at the time and thinking "this seems awkward." But well, 6e had a lot of fun but weird ideas.

[uneven ember]

A few years after but that was how I always felt about Apocalypse for 40K when it came out
Only played a couple times but my impression was that it was always less about the game as a game and more just going "ah that would be/is sick" whilst you do something absurd with your 28mm minis

[thin ibex]

Do you think the grav tanks function underwater too?

[uneven ember]

...huh. Interesting question.
I feel like that's a case by case answer entirely on the vibes of the grav tank in question

[runic swallow]

Only if they have an internal oxygen supply or snorkle, are waterproof, and the repulsion effect can fight against the water pressure

[plucky token]

so prolly not for most of them, unless they were specifically designed for that

[paper bluff]

Imperial knights drop castles and sister of battles churches

[runic swallow]

Fun fact, tank snorkels are a thing, and there was a notable tank on D-Day that got stuck in the water but just waited it out under the water until it could get recovered. Probably wouldn’t have been fun but all the crew were fine

[uneven ember]

I feel like most 40K tanks would have an internal oxygen supply and airtight seal by default, since every faction needs to fight in places without breathable atmosphere.
Exceptions being open vehicles where the crew is the one sealed up and orks (where "uninhabitable" is less of a restriction and more of a vibe)

[floral herald]

It’s also not universal for the imperial guard

[uneven ember]

So my thoughts, entirely vibe-based:
T'au: no, I feel like they'd have purpose-built aquatic craft rather than trying to make a tank that's also a boat because they're the "what? no, that's stupid" faction
Space Marines: ...gonna go with no, I just really don't see the hover tanks coming in underwater rather than over the surface, for no particular reason. Like I said, pure vibes
Necrons: yes, absolutely, in fact I'm absolutely certain that there are Tomb Worlds where the glorious cities of their ancient dynasty have been swallowed by the waves millions of years ago
Eldar: ...no idea here honestly, I don't know that I feel like it fits the feel but I don't know that not being able to dip into the ocean fits it better

[floral herald]

At least rules wise skimmers were able to go over water just fine

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah I'm assuming all of them are fine over water, I'm talking about grav tanks operating underwater

[floral herald]

Ah fair

I bet Eldar ones can

The sealed ones anyway

[upper bluff]

Votann absolutely have submarine tanks.

There's not a doubt in my mind the hekaton is amphibious

[finite compass]

Apocalypse was entirely "We want to sell giant expensive centerpiece models in plastic"

[uneven ember]

Also resin.

[pastel rampart]

Apoc was always done better in Epic for fairly obvious reasons but of course GW killed that in a fit of incompetence.

[finite compass]

Yeah, but I mean this is right when the introduced the plastic Baneblade and Stompa

[uneven ember]

Also it was about 3v3 players putting their entire collections on the same table and Timmying them at each other for the whole day
You try to do anything tactical and then the other guy pulls out a stratagem called Soulfuck Murderdeath or something so you just drop a pie plate of interconnected pie plates on him

They had rules for "a giant chunk of spaceship drops onto the table from low orbit. It smashes whatever is under it and stays on as terrain for the rest of the game"

[pastel rampart]

Which in any other game would've slapped ass but in Apoc it was just...kinda another thing to make the game drag on that much longer.

[uneven ember]

yeah, although I can't say I didn't have fun with it.
Not even so much playing it, tbh, as much as having played it

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/haultrukkz/status/1806238190614835300

Boss Haultrukkz (@haultrukkz) on X

Twitter · Jun 27, 2024, 8:08 AM

[past sphinx]

got my first game of 10th in with stodes!

we did okay!

wardens kindly asked half the nid army to "get bent weirdo" and took 3 rounds of shooting and melee from the biggest bugs he had without breaking a sweat

Bolter guardians shot through his floaty brain bugs

bikes uhh

bikes kinda stood around and smacked things

[peak olive]

Fuck

Can I get rid of them?

[brittle salmon]

Nope, they're the sergeants

You're stuck with em

Can make them take wounds first if you really want though

[paper bluff]

2 exceptions i would like to put forth, necrons because... well ya know and orks because... well they just assume there would be air and it just works

Now I see the vibes based comment

[paper bluff]

Hmmmm well... I think the grav plating would cause cavitation.. course, we'd have to get into how does grav plates work. Does it push against or does it negate?

[floral herald]

Modern imperial grav plates push, older ones and Eldar ones more or lesss negate

[thin ibex]

yeah the repulsor for example smashes shit beneath it

i have no idea if it actually works to cross water

on the note of airtight, id be extremely surprised if the leman russ had an airtight design, considering the sheer number of external weapon mounts and vision slits

[jaunty dawn]

chimera is canonically amphibious

its definitely possible for the leman russ to be? would need a lot of snorkels and a powerful bilge pump

something that varies with make and model maybe

the way the imperium is there's probably like

regiments from some waterworld that specialise in marine actions

with deep wading leman russes and stuff

I guess admech have hovercraft

snorkel

this but it's a "drive me closer I want to hit them with my sword" 40k tank commander

[runic swallow]

I was actually ranting about tank snorkels on here earlier!

I mentioned it earlier, but there was a tank on D-Day that got stuck just barely underwater and just waited the whole landing out until a recovery vehicle could get them out

(I hope that’s an actual story and not something apocryphal I’m mixing up)

[spice flicker]

Regarding sisters of battle, I know a hospitaller can attach to a battle sister squad even if a canoness or Palatine are in in and the hospitaller also shares other options with them as well. Is it only with the battle sisters that I can attach a Cannoness and a Hospitaller or can I say attach both to a celestian Sacresant squad at the same time as well?

[jaunty dawn]

battle sisters only

to the dismay of all

well, less so now

[spice flicker]

That's unfortunate

I feel like the hospitallers fnp would synergies well with the Sacresants but at the same time I'd like the cannoness to have a good bodyguard unit

[jaunty dawn]

canoness is key now

but depends what detach what bodyguard she should have

[spice flicker]

The flamer/melta attachment where every gun gets assault as well as +1 strength within 12"

[jaunty dawn]

oh definitely not sacresant then

I would imagine

there's a mortal wounds strat I think?

[spice flicker]

I actually like the Halberdiers

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I love them but canoness is strat giver and thats a gun detachment

[spice flicker]

So stick with the hospitaller then and with that what should the canoness be protected by?

[jaunty dawn]

probably retributors?

or dominions

in a transport probably

[spice flicker]

Hmmm to make room for the the transports should I replace one of the castigators with a pair of rhinos?

[jaunty dawn]

remind me of list?

[spice flicker]

Also Halberds or maces on the Sacresants?

[past sphinx]

What is a tank if not a land submarine

[runic swallow]

If you ask interwar designers, it’s a land battleship

[past sphinx]

LANDSHIP

A perfect name

T-35 best tonk

[jaunty dawn]

halberds have better drip

[spice flicker]

True and sustained hits now

[solemn gull]

But if you have a mace you can say Bonk while rolling to hit

[thin ibex]

Do yall think the space marine and Terminator exhaust ports get hot and turn like orange or white while they're using it to its fullest?

Their armor I mean

[plucky token]

It would look cool as hell, so yes

[rocky harness]

You mean hot as hell 🥁

[runic swallow]

At a minimum they need to have dramatic heat haze, especially on startup

[valid brook]

One thousand percent gotta have that heat mirage under normal operation and when you Turn Up show me that afterburner glow

[paper bluff]

I would imagine the force field of the Cataphractii creates a shimmer

[thin ibex]

trryiong to decide if i make it my goal today to finish building the ghostkeel

rn i have, iirc, the ghostkeel, another squad of stealthsuits, an ethereal, a fireblade and... thats it

to assemble of my remaining models

oh you know what would have been cool

if the fireblade got a different upgrade based on his weapon choice between a fireblade pulse rifle and a fireblade pulse carbine

[paper bluff]

it wouls

tau always seems a hell of magnatizing

[thin ibex]

It's not so bad, it's really only your larger models

[floral herald]

real

I wish Daemon Princes were a little stronger atm this model is sick as FUCK

[thin ibex]

i thought they were pretty decent? Too points costly?

[floral herald]

Just not lethal enough for the price basically

Though I think their cost has been cut enough to make them viable

I mostly just lament that while they're amazing centerpiece models they are merely adequate in terms of rules

[thin ibex]

they have a more impressive presence at a smaller points scale for sure, like at a 1k i find them intimidating sometimes

though i killed my opponents with heavy rail rifles and seekers before he could tear me up

it was one of hte models i put into a friend of mines "basic, versatile starter csm list" things

as a versatile, tough bully

not for tank killing necessarily, but able to brawl effectively

[floral herald]

Yeah its pretty good at mulching infantry

I think with Deceptors giving it Lone Operative the walking one might be pretty good

But also the Talisman of Burning Blood unit seeking missile build is fun

[floral herald]

That also makes sense that they’d shine more in smaller games

[thin ibex]

I didn't think it was a point against them only because heavy rail rifles will dust most things they get to shoot at

Them getting shot up I mean

Tau being notoriously good at single target removal

[ebon forge]

Ork, or World Eater Toaster? Mmh..

[bright dove]

Ork for sure

[ebon forge]

Best Ork Toaster

[floral herald]

Hmm, I have some raptors, how do warp talons value these days?

Debating on if I just make them as raptors or magnetize them or something

I am kinda leaning towards raptors just because warp talons are kinda goofy looking

[jovial berry]

Big fuck done

[floral herald]

Ok outside of shoulderpads these look easy to magnetize I'll just do both

[uneven ember]

oh that's sick

[floral herald]

That is sick yeah

Still need to paint but I got him together just before my trip

Mostly notable because this guy was really really hard to put together

[jovial berry]

Thanks

[jovial berry]

Also this thing looks cool, what model is it?

[floral herald]

Vashtorr the arkifane

I didn't do any conversions or anything though, he's... taxing to assemble

each arm is like 7 pieces

[jovial berry]

Ough

That sounds like a pain

[thin ibex]

saw this late, but iirc warp talons are #very good, with twin linked and if i have it right, they can leap off the table very easily

[floral herald]

They got hit kinda hard in the balance dataslate but I think they were legit must-take competitively

(They need to kill a unit in melee to leap off the board now and they cost more)

I think its funny how Warp Talons have a champion with 0 extra rules

[floral herald]

Only sort of related but what software do you use for listbuilding?

[thin ibex]

I just use the website New Recruit, https://www.newrecruit.eu

[floral herald]

sweet thanks

[thin ibex]

np

i think for me, raptors are more utility thanks to special weapons, but warp talons are legitimately deadly thanks to en mass twin linked

they'll properly tear up most basic and tough infantry

[floral herald]

This is kinda a "models I have" list but what do you think?

I think I may switch to Deceptors for the better for the list ability

Might also drop vashy for more infantry

Or try to find a Rhino somewhere in the universe

I'm... surprisingly happy with this though

Termies+jump packs deep strike in

Wingprince probably rapid ingresses or something

rest advance and form a firebase

basic tide of bodies CSM

A little top heavy but 🤷‍♂️

I wanted to field more legionaries but they're hard to fit and there's other stuff competing for the points

I want to use votlw but running this many mortal bodies makes it less attractive imo

[floral herald]

Only ran a few but if you wanna take a look

[thin ibex]

I'm peepin now

Looks like you have a good mix of volume and options. You have an answer to everything and a lot of bodies in play. Biggest weakness is your primary AT is relatively fragile, and you don't have any hefty toughness entities maybe. Though that's debatable, because more wounds on board can win the obj control game

And you have the tools to take advantage of secondaries that need to to be in board quarters or edges, which is good

Dread Talons is the battleshockers right?

[desert jay]

Yeah

And somehow also a good bshock detachment

[floral herald]

Yeah, though I mostly took it because I’m running jump troops fairly heavily and they have good enhancements for that

And if I get Bshocks my strats turn all my units into blenders

Zealots might be better actually

Gets me sustained 5+/lethal 6+ on the Havocs in the firebase and I can talisman of burning blood the wingprince

Which allows him to theoretically swing 9 times at S13

With damage 3

Khorne Chosen with the Dark Apostle are also pretty much anti-everything if they get into melee

[thin ibex]

Iirc btw the firebrand can force bshock tests with the cultists. But you'd lose the invuln

[floral herald]

Though I'm not doing a lot to help them get into melee

[floral herald]

Biggest reason I'm not running one is just because I don't have the model

But its a fun one so I'll see if it shows up in stores near me

I'm glad to hear its a credible list though

I wanted to run more legionaries but... legionary heavy feels hard to justify when the other specialists are lowkey really good

I am running a lot of PA bodies though which I wanted

I am weakly fighting the urge to name one of my leader characters "Dementus"

Thinking about Furiosa again

[thin ibex]

Vashtor is a walking anti tank tool sitting on a 4++?

[floral herald]

Yeah definitely

I like having 2 missiles (vashtorr and the wingprince) so they can split fire

[mental birch]

Join the party riptide energy

[jaunty dawn]

sisters are on waha noww

no gsc yet

[paper bluff]

Here's a 40k lore question that I've thought about. "Does the emperor count as a custodes psyker?"

[thin ibex]

nah, big e isn't custodes, custodes are his companions

[obsidian flume]

Yeah Emps himself is the product of a mass human sacrifice spell

To my knowledge

No genetic modification, just half of earths psychers killing themselves to make their own god(phrasing it like that because I’m a massive hater)

[lucid scarab]

Ya that’s basically right, but he’s sort of the reincarnation of thousands of druids

[paper bluff]

Is the leader of a set included in the set?

Let me rephrase

Would biggie golds be included in the custodes faction due to being their leader and as such, be the 1 psyker for faction custodians/talons of the emperor

[solemn gull]

No he’d be included in every imperial keyword faction army but not custodes specifically

I mean yes for 30k but not 40k

[paper bluff]

In 40k he'd be a terrain unit and no one takes those

[solemn gull]

I love making terrain 😔

[thin ibex]

In 40k I'm reasonably sure he'd be in the Agents Of The Imperium

To let him join any imperial army

[obsidian flume]

Yeah faction gods are traditionally “can join anyone in their grand allegiance”

[thin ibex]

Bread and butter orks list

Wasn't sure if I felt war horde or bully boys felt better for ghaz

It's a bit funny how simple this list is, yet also pretty dangerous

[paper bluff]

I'm wondering if I should start buying up imperial knight armies on ebay now..... the market seems chilly

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/436996345656639510/1257734384031764551/0tfbrtvkx2ad1.png?ex=66857bec&is=66842a6c&hm=87629b6a62d4fa575fc271f843187284a4289508f096dbdab65746b1086947f5&

[paper bluff]

Quality cargo pants to carry him that way

[floral herald]

But the internet told me null maiden was bad

[jovial berry]

Okay chat, random question:
Angron or the Lion.

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/s/QbYylfprKp

From here

[floral herald]

In a fight?

[upper bluff]

Ok but I literally can't fathom how they did it

[floral herald]

Honestly kinda same, it’s incredibly funny to me that null-maidens got the first Custodes GT win post-codex

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/s/NGGcWHzqbI

[tired cairn]

My only guess is that they can be a horde army that is relatively resistant to the new anti-horde stuff (I think the new secondary does not work very well on them?)

[floral herald]

Ok someone posted the list

[tired cairn]

Lmao at it taking Canis Rex

Honestly this only raises more questions

[floral herald]

Yeah I was expecting some kind of crazed skew list but this isn’t that skewed

[jovial berry]

Deciding how to split up who gets what for the themed 2v2.

[tired cairn]

This is what my friend says:

I saw that. Apparently it's mostly non sisters units (Canis Rex, telemon, grab tank) but the sisters and the culexus can give units -2 or -3 to battle shock tests so they can always steal objectives from people and then plop the telemon or Canis on top

Is battleshock good now?

[upper bluff]

Did they remember leadership can only be as low as 8 or 9 or whatever

I'm sure they did

[tired cairn]

Yeah, but penalties to rolls are different from changing leadership values

Which is where a bunch of the stacking often comes from

[rocky shale]

Canis Rex is also just a monster right now for the points

[desert jay]

Daughters of the Abyss now gives all their models a 3+++ vs dev wounds :D

(It's psychic attacks and mortal wounds)

And every SoS unit has it

But also yeah it's SoS infantry + 2 tanks + dread + Canis

1080 points in the 4 vehicles

[paper bluff]

The price ($) per points with sisters might have been old mechanicus levels

[floral herald]

Was it really? dang

[paper bluff]

60 usd for 5 and 50 points for basic boler

[paper bluff]

$12 dollars per bolter basically

[floral herald]

yeah that's bad

[cinder wraith]

its nerf or nothing

(bolt pistol wip)

[soft willow]

I look forward to seeing it completed and blessed by the omnissiah.

[desert jay]

Yeah they're all 12 bucks/model, I think they're upcharged b/c you can build the kit as 4 + a Knight-centura

Which is also bullshit IMO, but I see what kind of bullshit they're doing

[floral herald]

I kinda hate those expensive "makes 5" boxes you can make 2 different ways

GW sure doesn't

[desert jay]

Heh, more than 2 ways

[floral herald]

Oh do they make 3 units or something?

[desert jay]

Prosecutor/Vigilator/Witchseekers are all just different weapon options on the same kit

If you're building a Null Maidens list you're getting like 15-20 identical kits, maybe more

[jaunty dawn]

they have like 20 units in heresy but only one other model

actually two, they have their transport. but the other is a named character so

[floral herald]

weird

[paper bluff]

$1000 dollar army lol

[desert jay]

Well that's just for the sisters infantry portion, you're probably spending 200-500 on vehicles too

[paper bluff]

The to hit bonus is odd in talons because one of the units it flamers.... they automatically hit

[paper bluff]

If it has to be officially forge world resin for the grav tanks, way more

[jaunty dawn]

the other weird thing about their 40k rules is they like

[desert jay]

Yeah the Telemon is also FW resin

[jaunty dawn]

actively removed battleline from the regular sisters

so it would only be in their own detachment

[desert jay]

So the GT winning list with 2 callidus and 1 telemon and Canis Rex is actually $680 MSRP for the 1080 pts of vehicles

(Telemon you also buy the body and arms seperately)

[paper bluff]

Again even more since to have to after market source those tanks

[desert jay]

The Telemon is also OOS

[paper bluff]

Seems like those should be able to have a plastic kit right??

[jaunty dawn]

good chance they'll eventually get one

[paper bluff]

I truly wished they would but instead we got spear and sheild man

[jaunty dawn]

I mean it'll be a horus heresy release

[upper bluff]

Idk I'm just thankful they didn't make SoS the combat patrol for custodes

[desert jay]

The old combat patrol had SoS in it

[paper bluff]

A horussy plastic kit for the special contemptor dreds would be nice

[desert jay]

But was one of those boxes that was a decent deal even if you set the sisters aside

1 shield captain, 10 sisters, 4 guard, 3 jetbikes

Okay maybe a worse deal than I remember

[paper bluff]

Honestly getting the box was nice deal

[cinder wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-look-the-other-way-look-away-awkward-weird-gif-17246188

khorne wills it

[soft willow]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-techpriest-binaric-screeching-screeching-gif-20192683

[paper bluff]

Kornate dark mechanicum preists would be a wild thing

[dense sedge]

What’s that tech priest image from, I’ve seen it a few times

[jovial berry]

Got the new kroot models for our army :)

[floral herald]

I think it’s just old fanart

[jovial berry]

Carnivores + a Lone-spear

[paper bluff]

https://x.com/heromedley/status/1808468935253311770

pau (@heromedley) on X

it will keel

Twitter · Jul 3, 2024, 11:52 AM

[hard whale]

modern-day equivalent of a fantasy double-sword, or a 40k plasma gun

[floral herald]

I just realized that's a Zip22

[paper bluff]

I look forward to the day when the we get the defense against guns sorted and swords make a comeback

The warhammer "a force field is only so good then it fails" is better than the dune "slow stab and laser nuke" imo

Course a flamer thrower seems the ultimate weapon in dune

[thin ibex]

What are the catachans thematic anti tank picks? Lascannon heavy weapons teams presumably, devil dog variant hellhounds? Missile launchers?

[floral herald]

Leman Russ Vanquisher

[thin ibex]

thats works with em thematically? I guess they do like snipers

and its effectively the tank version of a sniper

[paper bluff]

Sounds like a job for a baneblade

[floral herald]

Catachan has very famous tank regiments

[thin ibex]

hmm ok, im a bit surprised but in a good way

are theiir tank regiments known for any particular styles of combat?

i usually took the catachan as expert light infantry and light armor

[floral herald]

Just sort of normal tank stuff aiui

Though they camouflage their tanks a lot and use those bulging biceps to load faster and such

[finite compass]

Technically any planet that puts out a lot of Guard regiments is going to have some that go against type, because that's just how the Imperial Guard functions

Even to the point of

I mean if you're going to have a Catachan super-heavy, a Stormlord is probably the ideal choice

Massive infantry transport and support, specialized to deal with massed infantry and lots of cover.

[desert jay]

My brain thinking about how it's a very nice model paint job but also the scale of the camo pattern is wrong

[finite compass]

Understandable for wargaming

As somebody trying to collect Catachans, if you try and do realistic-sized camo patterns, it's just going to look muddled and indistinct.

Big bold patterns are less realistic, but look much better on the tabletop

[desert jay]

Painted the tank camo too realistically and now no one notices it in the cool jungle diorama

[finite compass]

I'm actually reminded of that Half-Life: Raising the Bar book

Where they went over the design of the enemy soldiers

And they deliberately went with like "It needs to have the impression of a camo uniform, but also needs to be readily readable and visible on a 640x480 monitor"

Which is exactly the thing here. For wargaming purposes, having the instantly readable impression of a camo pattern is more important aesthetically than an actual functional camo pattern.

[pastel rampart]

This goes for a lot of things in the hobby.

Like trees! You could go for a very realistic-looking tree, which in one-offs or small batches is fine, but for a whole table? The impression of it is better than laboring over the exact details.

[pulsar cairn]

hi

i'm back

[solemn gull]

Nah I’m built different I want you to just see a base and think “did he even put models on it?”

[finite compass]

This is why you paint your Orks purple.

Or just put forward empty bases and say they're orks you painted purple.

[thin ibex]

Tau stealthsuits are just empty bases

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/596197650332778498/1258199959409393684/448942326_1114846923144578_8103683028591341135_n.mp4?ex=66872d86&is=6685dc06&hm=645d68197ddf849d407feec9494466dfa538b22baa6a8c39a765b153dfc1c569&

https://vxtwitter.com/WH40kbestof/status/1808537938168590394

[runic swallow]

Oh no, you’re right.
In that case, it Will Not Keel

[brittle salmon]

If every Catachan can move and fire Heavy weapons without penalty the Imperium should have won already

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROr4oBz_tI another colosseum game

[thin ibex]

Hmm army idea for the night?

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/the_unknown1222/status/1808662967849767241?t=y-JZB0pysKo6es1kkwiB6w&s=19

[jovial berry]

Amazing

[paper bluff]

Say what you will but the silly gets from protection of a god

[jaunty dawn]

welcome back skully!

[pulsar cairn]

[past sphinx]

Gotta respect the Rgue trader you get your ship from for having basically an open heretic space wizard AND and SoB in her retinue

game respects game

[uneven ember]

that is the fun of Rogue Traders (& Inquisitors, for that matter)
You have an official "It's Cool" license to collect whoever you want and most people who'd have an issue can't say boo

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/WH40kbestof/status/1808537938168590394

[past sphinx]

this game really needed a blood axe merc

[cinder wraith]

planning to 3D print this tbh

[quaint compass]

Good plan

[paper bluff]

woosh. now if only it wasn't ungodly humid out

[uneven ember]

niiiice

[solemn gull]

That is some clean white

[paper bluff]

nope that is just the fordge worle resin

[solemn gull]

Oh

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1258539112835580036/GRmYB3_WcAEA49y.jpg?ex=66886963&is=668717e3&hm=f7fbd37c545064e9dfff3b7d796b7bef61d2e035308bc4787579fb3ba3d3740b&

[tired cairn]

I appreciate that they have kept the Basilisks absurd range

[paper bluff]

It would be funny to have one guard player help out another on a different table

[runic swallow]

“Table Two, Table Two, this is Table One Forward Artillery Observer, we need fire support, approximately 20 EI dismounts at grid 223-12, how copy?”
“Dude I’m right behind you chill out”

[bright dove]

Apocalypse Gaming

[past sphinx]

i was very hesitant for Owlcats writing all on their own but so far they have excelled in some parts. Especially in regards to sometimes the best for you thing, the right thing and the good thing are all opposing choices and sometimes they all suck

the grimdark darkness of these men in stupid looking hats

[past sphinx]

the commander shepard medal of honor to the woman who walked up to an Aeldar ranger and just full swung her shot

[thin ibex]

I have no idea how it would all work out but having like a full campaign of interwoven kill team, different sized 40k, and like (in this dream) aeronautica, battlefleet Gothic, and Apocalypse, over the course of like a long period of time where they all influence or affect each other would be cool

[floral herald]

Really hard to run all of that but it’d be rad with the maniacal GM needed

[runic swallow]

I know Bolt Action (made in part by former GW writers) and it’s related naval and air games has a board game you can use to link a bunch of games together, but I don’t think GW itself has ever put out anything like that

Though there might have been some sort of campaign linking rules in earlier editions now that I’m thinking about it, but I don’t think it was anything like what you’re looking for

[upper canopy]

That sounds like something I'd do when in the throes of a manic episode

[paper bluff]

I see bolt action and go "maybe one day

[floral herald]

There was something with Battlefleet Gothic and normal 40K iirc

[upper canopy]

Like tbh

if I was paid

I'd run this

That's the only way I could justify the effort though

[runic swallow]

That might be what I was thinking of

[thin ibex]

Yeah there's no doubt that it would be a herculean effort, but that's why I'm wishful thinking it

I wonder if a computer game could do it to a satisfying degree

[upper canopy]

Is this not Chapter Master

[thin ibex]

What's that?

[pale narwhal]

there were rules for combining BFG and 40k

and I'm sure using the old Planetstrike rules etc there's material for a bunch of different scenarios you could link into a larger campaign

[tired cairn]

Whatever this is: https://youtu.be/tKjsOu2Kzbw?si=Rq75EhPehQeCT8Aa

Ground combat being lines is something

I do like how "shitty luck" is a chapter trait

A significant part of the game being managing how your allies feel about you is pretty great

[jovial berry]

Lamenters moment

[solemn gull]

I think if I got to play in something like this my hobby career would be complete and I could retire

[pine matrix]

Real

[unreal cosmos]

Hey so the Winged Tyranid Prime is in a bad spot without winged warriors to lead, right? Which do you see as a better unit for it to latch on to, Gargoyles or Warriors?

[upper bluff]

From my understanding warriors aren't in a very good spot

So probably gargoyles

[tired cairn]

You use it on warriors in the Vanguard Onslaught detachment so they gain the Vanguard keyword

Otherwise I don't think people use it at all?

[unreal cosmos]

Honestly I'm just trying to think of ways to go from Leviathan to a 1k army with minimum additional purchases

[hearty wasp]

Random thought related to Space Marines and how they are depicted in lore vs in game. It would be interesting to see a short story or snippet based on the disconnect in which Space Marines are closer in power to the tabletop interpretation but who also cultivate the image of ultra elites that stories present them as.

Mostly. Thinking about something I saw about russian soldiers doing weird rite of passage stuff to prove their machismo before Ukraine was invaded.

[upper bluff]

Myrmidons are so sick

[pastel rampart]

30k admech whip ass and I wish they were as cool-looking in 40k.

[mental birch]

3x plasma gonna make someone's life hell

Hehhehee

😄

[solemn gull]

Lore accurate space marines would probably have custodes tier stats

[bright dove]

I mean, I'd say the stats are lore accurate

[paper bluff]

Chapter specific tactics don't transfer to table top all that well

[floral herald]

Somewhere above it I think if you take the Imperial Guard's "heavily reinforced platoon" scale for an army at face value, that's somewhere between 1 and 5 lore space marines worth of problems

So I think Imperial Knights but leetol is more the ballpark :p

[thin ibex]

Imo, goyles are the better bubble wrapped delivery system to get the nid prime into a soft target.

Warriors are the better option when you're looking for the rest of the unit to have an impact

It's important to remember that space marines in lore after the heresy, at least until very recently, generally operated most often at the single squad level, possibly with air support from what functioned as their mobile HQ

Rather than in large skirmish or battle formations

It's a notable thing when space marines deploy en mass in a battle formation or as a whole chapter

[unreal cosmos]

Is maxing out the squad important or will 10 do the job?

[floral herald]

Warriors IMO, Prime adds some melee punch and sustained hits and Warriors benefit a lot more from sustained hits

[thin ibex]

In a 2k point game your going to have other heavy lifters, id just keep it at 10 and try and get a charge on on turn 1 or 2 if possible. The nid prime itself is not necessarily worth over investing in.

Also I think warriors are in an OK spot atm rather than bad

Especially with the recent synapse changes

[unreal cosmos]

Honestly in my current theorycrafting stage part of my uncertainty is I'm not sure which look better lol. Both are slightly older models, perfectly good but still a step behind the new wave.

[dense sedge]

how does army builing work in 30k with putting together the three different factions?

[upper bluff]

There's like a chart with different things saying if they play nice together

So like Salamanders are battle brothers with Mechanicum so you're allowed X amount compared to another chapter that's only allies

[dense sedge]

neat, any way to access the chart?

[upper bluff]

Should be in one of the books. I'm not an expert on heresy so I don't know which one

[past sphinx]

It costs thirty thousand dollars but I think it'll whip ass

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [1,995pts] ++

• Configuration +

Battle Size: 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit)

Detachments: Shield Host

Show/Hide Options: Agents of the Imperium are visible, Legends are visible, Unaligned Forces are visible, Unaligned Fortifications are visible

• Character +

Blade Champion [125pts]: Auric Mantle

Shield-Captain [165pts]: From the Hall of Armouries, Pyrithite Spear & Praesidium shield, Warlord

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armour [160pts]: Castellan Axe, Castellan's Mark

• Battleline +

Custodian Guard [180pts]

. 3x Custodian Guard (Guardian Spear): 3x Guardian Spear
. Custodian Guard (Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield)

Custodian Guard [180pts]

. 4x Custodian Guard (Guardian Spear): 4x Guardian Spear

• Infantry +

Allarus Custodians [130pts]

. 2x Allarus Custodian (Castellan Axe): 2x Balistus grenade launcher, 2x Castellan Axe

Custodian Wardens [250pts]

. 4x Custodian Warden (Castellan axe): 4x Castellan Axe
. Custodian Warden (Guardian Spear)

Venatari Custodians [165pts]

. 3x Venatari Custodian (Venatari lance): 3x Venatari lance

• Vehicle +

Caladius Grav-tank [215pts]: Twin arachnus heavy blaze cannon

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [165pts]: 2x Lastrum storm bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [175pts]

• Allied Units +

Lord Inquisitor Kyria Draxus [85pts]

++ Total: [1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[upper bluff]

I thought you were serious and it was just going to be 3 of every foregworld vehicle

[floral herald]

Mildly sad but hey

[runic swallow]

Honestly, reasonable

Better to make a non-broken game at launch, which is better than some devs

[tardy vault]

just gotta hope the campgain can be played offline

because if it's all online, the servers very well might explode on launch

but the logic of "we need devs on the main game not polishing a beta branch" is solid

[runic swallow]

I wouldn’t think you’d need it to be online to play campaign, but apparently CoD now needs a constant internet connection to stream the game so who even knows anymore

Remember when people just put games on disc? That was nice

[floral herald]

It might need online login but that’s it

And login servers usually don’t get murdered

[runic swallow]

Buy physical media, all-online means you don’t own anything

[uneven ember]

||https://x.com/sefu_sneezed/status/1799843105312756122||
(CW... gore? idk if it's gore. Gross?)

(It's heartwarming though)

[south axle]

New Ad Mech trend: keeping your protege's "milk" ||limbs|| cw:related to the above post

[thin ibex]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/05/more-details-from-the-incredible-eavy-metal-dioramas-from-white-dwarf-500/

[pastel rampart]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/C8z3t2FOEH5/

[tired cairn]

I find the number of games Crusade is designed around frightening. There is an upgrade in the new campaign that gives additional resources but takes 10-20 games to breakeven on

[pulsar cairn]

What does pink do for orks

Make em cute?

[floral herald]

That's nuts yeah I don't think they're suppsed to last that long

[tired cairn]

I can't math, it's 6-19 games depending on win rate

[floral herald]

Oh that's... not so bad but kind of a while for breakeven

[tired cairn]

Yeah

[floral herald]

There's often some weird stinkers in GW narrative play upgrades

So it might just be one of those

[tired cairn]

I always hate those types of upgrades so it's probably for the best it's bad lol

[floral herald]

Yeah I agree while I haven't read it it strikes me as a kind of boring win more upgrade

[solemn gull]

I really don’t get the idea of crusade

If the goal is narrative play then why are there so many rules and balances

[thin ibex]

its actually to enable more freeform customization

because without it, youre effectively just playing standard competetive matches and talking about it afterwards

the crusade rules add out-of-game resource gains on several levels, and progressions

[solemn gull]

It still feels like matched play but with multiple matches being strung together

[thin ibex]

thats partially because they wanted to be light handed on the progression/overlay of rules; the campaign books add a lot of context and i think also suggested missions

but by itself its just more rules on top, it's the participants job to utilize the rules to establish narrative context when they're not using a campaign book

[jaunty dawn]

it just adds progression

both armies getting bigger and characters getting grander

but also narrative = less rules is kinda falacious I feeel

[solemn gull]

I disagree, my squad of guardsman getting wiped off the board by a swarm of nurglings and then having -1” for the next game doesn’t feel very narrative

Having more rules telling you how to play limits the narratives you get access to

[thin ibex]

to be fair nothing has ever stopped you from making up specific rules to a narrative campaign you want to play

[jaunty dawn]

if that's the case that's a problem of rules being unsuitable, not the complexity of them being too much

[solemn gull]

Exactly, everyone I know who plays narratively doesn’t use these rules I don’t know why the exist

[jaunty dawn]

you don't need rules to tell you to do what you already know how and want to do

crusade is for ppl who want to play crusade

[thin ibex]

well we gave you some reasons, so if those don't work for you that's kind of on you; they don't have to work for you and if they don't thats fine

They exist for [players who are not in the group you're familiar with] ultimately

[solemn gull]

I guess so

[thin ibex]

I've played with them, I've enjoyed it, so i guess they exist for me

[solemn gull]

Nice claw hand

[mental birch]

Greenstuff

Sculpt

[solemn gull]

Yeah that’s why I said you did a great job scultping a hand those things are really fiddly

[mental birch]

Thanks!

[thin ibex]

hey since khorne loves brass, does that mean they're a big fan of big band music

and marching bands?

I'm imagining trumpet soloists in khornes armies

[jaunty dawn]

yes

[thin ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/horn-section-brass-jazz-hands-jazz-wind-instruments-gif-4119780213910126214

[floral herald]

Yes definitely

[sweet solar]

the thing being swung in benny goodmans swing swing swing?

u better believe thats an axe baby

[paper bluff]

It does mean a thing.

You know...

Just imagine her dancing to swing music

[pulsar cairn]

i saw some stuff on fabious bile, some of his interactions with other characters and whatnot

he doesnt seem like he's chaos corrupted

just really really really crazy

[floral herald]

Might be

[pulsar cairn]

i feel like ahriman fits in with them too

[jaunty dawn]

he's kinda like

both

[paper bluff]

It's the scientist vs scolar approach

Fabius = scientist through and through. He wants to use stuff to get a result

[floral herald]

I like it for the characters where its really ambiguous

[desert jay]

They could make a “pragmatically using the powers of Chaos for their own ends” alliance except for the fact that they all have different ends

[paper bluff]

Ahriman wants to know why something is and he knows patronage and funding is a way to find out and get the resources.

[desert jay]

Submitting research grant applications to Tzeentch

[paper bluff]

Idk about abbadon's pragmatism at this point

[pulsar cairn]

ahriman is also plankton and the black library is the krusty krab

i do like ahriman tho, i find him to be a fun character

[paper bluff]

Exactly so and tzeetch giving the funding because it would be so interesting to see ahriman find out

It would be fun for there to be a human follower of Cegorach

..............

[pulsar cairn]

i dont think he would mind

[paper bluff]

Ciaphus Cain

[pulsar cairn]

just gotta have a good sense of humor

[paper bluff]

"Stop putting me in shitty situations"

"Hehehe.... No, it's too funny and the stories are great"

[floral herald]

Abaddon is still... sort of credibly doing his plan

Though its like 50% "conquer the Imperium and rule it" and 50% "find evil maguffins" dude LOVES evil maguffins

[paper bluff]

I bet you rn there are plays about ciaphus in the imperium or he's a role in a commedia del arte like zanni

[desert jay]

Should've crashed his Blackstone Fortress into Terra instead of Cadia, SMH

[floral herald]

I believe Abby wants terra intact

[paper bluff]

No use being a lord of ruins

[desert jay]

He can settle for most of the rest of the Imperium

[pulsar cairn]

Abby is kind of sad cause while he does have a sound objective

there's no way he can manage all of the crazy dudes that work under him

at least not in times of peace i think

"peace"

[dense sedge]

Ahriman is in denial but his self loathing means it is less than the others

[paper bluff]

Remember Fabius had slaanesh looking directly at him and went "Nah. Nothing there." As his body was shutting down with both his hearts going into cardiac arrest

[solemn gull]

He was coping real hard

[solemn gull]

That and he is slowly going the way of horus

I love chaos characters they are all far more interesting then imperial characters

[pulsar cairn]

abby is cool

[pastel rampart]

Abby is cool now and I think a lot of it has to do with his characterization from the HH novels.

Which, well. Gave him a character.

[thin ibex]

Before he was just a top knotted screaming angry big dude

[paper bluff]

Huron Blackheart is tremendous for this

Basically in that recent book he explains why and calls abbadon a looser

[thin ibex]

Abaddon used to also be a huge jobber

Huron was cooler when he was a renegade using the favor of chaos to his own ends

I find him less interesting as more of a chaos lackey after being in the warp, or at least that's how it seems

[pulsar cairn]

that happens a lot in 40k no? a character going from boring to fun?

[uneven ember]

heh
Which book is that?

[thin ibex]

age of sigmar question, whats the biggest difference between the two different kroxifor types?

is one just better but more expensive?

kroxigor*

[solemn gull]

Is he not anymore? Last I checked the lore he was just surviving and growing his renegade pirate kingdom.

[thin ibex]

as i remembered it, post badad he had to flee into a warp storm, where he sort of lives and sorties from now as a raid and pirate threat

though i read now on his lexicanum that they attacked chargoris and have taken multiple worlds and captured/tortured jubal khan

[solemn gull]

Good on him, that’s a real success story

[uneven ember]

I will point out that "pirate" in 40K is in kind of a weird spot because of the stupid OTT nature of 40K spaceships

[runic swallow]

You just get more OTT pirates, what’s the issue

[uneven ember]

I'm not saying it's an issue, just that, like
Compared to most SF settings the distinction between "pirate fleet" and "world-conquering space armada" is fairly porous

[runic swallow]

Lmao yeah

[finite compass]

Also a lot of 40k pirate vessels tend to be smaller (By 40k standards at least)

Destroyers, Escorts, and the like

'Only' 1km long or so

But you also have stuff like the Iconoclast that are non-standard patterns and put together in Heretek or unsanctioned shipyards

I mean still definitely pirates

Just, you know

'small army' at minimum

Even then with the nature of a lot of 40k ships, a good chunk of the crew won't know or care that their commanders are pirates, or rogue, or heretics, or what have you.

If you're an expendable rating whose job it is to crawl inside and clean the macrocannon barrels, having a pirate in command vs an actual naval officer is pretty academic.

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah, you can get "small" pirate fleets of Escorts that can wreck hell on interstellar shipping but need to flee any kind of coordinated response.

But if a pirate fleet is big enough that it's got some capital ships, that's a planet-conquering force.
Or at least, if Huron isn't interested in setting tax policy and staffing the civil service, "give me all your shit or I'll start melting cities from orbit."

[solemn gull]

Also don’t forget he’s probably rocking at least a couple of battle barges and other space marine ships

[paper bluff]

He would love a civil service and a way to keep his forces supplied on the regular. But due to the nature of chaos, not happening

[solemn gull]

Chaos logistics are a nightmare

Or maybe not actually now that I think of it

Between the looting and not having to follow the mechanicus’s rules could chaos actually be better supplied then the imperium?

[paper bluff]

Seems this biologis is responsible for the Malstrain genestealers

[solemn gull]

Oh that’s so cool

[paper bluff]

The question becomes, does that make him the patriarch?

[solemn gull]

Unless he’s stapled the psychic parts to his brain probably not

[upper bluff]

He put little clothes on that genestealer

[paper bluff]

I mean.... he did muck about with his genetics enough to splice in tyranid DNA so... maybe

We did see that not zoanthrope zoanthrope from a while back

The this one

[south axle]

The article mentions this Hermiatus is created by the Patriarch and is in fact an unsanctioned psyker

[paper bluff]

A psyker tech preist and the first one we see has done a handjive with the genetics of tyranids

Wait...... this Hermiatus?

[south axle]

The real Hermiatus got exterminated by the Inquisition. This Hermiatus is a creature created in shape of a memory of the real one by the Patriarch

[pulsar cairn]

is this a mechanicum gene stealer or a mechanicum who owns a pet gene stealer

[south axle]

Gene being in the shape of mechanicum

[solemn gull]

It’s necromunda baby

[pulsar cairn]

the 2nd option then

[south axle]

Kinda wonder what the Malstrain Patriarch looks like, as we have now seen MalStealers, baby Malstrain, a Malstrain Alpha and a Malstrain Zoanthnot

[past sphinx]

Sllloghtly different angle

[south axle]

Look at cute baby

[past sphinx]

"We just thought he was a cool friend"

[solemn gull]

Oh I just noticed the flesh mechadendrites

Gnarly

[jaunty dawn]

its a mechanicum who has a pet gene stealer but is also a gene stealers pet

[solemn gull]

While also being a genestealer

[unreal cosmos]

as I mentioned elsewhere, great fodder for kitbash-happy GSC and DarkMech players

[pulsar cairn]

that's hilarious

does nobody really care cause everyone in necromunda is weird?

[jaunty dawn]

oh no they care

this whole hive is condemned and referred to as the underhell

[pulsar cairn]

oh

do they happen to be the bigger problem there? or the same lvl as the other big gangs and factions?

[paper bluff]

Take a hive and dial the odd shit up

I think one faction is literally people time jumped from the dark age of technology but the ship reactor has a leak?

[jaunty dawn]

hive secundus got like meganuked because the biologis this guy is an imitation of was experimenting with genestealers and they got out

but the meganukes just made the genestealers super weird and they survived so now the ruin is pretty much infested by them

I don't think there's any time travel faction? You might be thinking of van saar, they just secretly have a substantially intact stc that is leaking radiation

so they make really good shit but are all dying of radiation poisoning and are dependent on their rad suits

[paper bluff]

That's the one

[past sphinx]

I'm happy I've been making fucked up admech dudes

[paper bluff]

The regular foot soldiers for the malstrain do look a little different than regular GCS

They're looking like they want 500 cigarettes

[cinder wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/500-cigarettes-the-orville-gif-7658479820042125764

[past sphinx]

GSC but more broke

This is what happens when you can't afford Marlboro and only use eagle 20s

[paper bluff]

Does the second hermiatus count as the magnus then?

[jaunty dawn]

the alpha is the patriarch I think? or at least the closest to one that survives

oh wait no

I guess there is one out there

[paper bluff]

Would be fun to know if these genestealers weren't attracting the hive mind because too fucked up

[solemn gull]

And are also working in part with Helmmar to turn Hive Primus into a giant spaceship and fuck off

[solemn gull]

The squid tentacle face tyranid strain is left to rot and not absorbed back into the pools by the hivemind for a mutation that small (and also their insane regeneration) so these inbred and irradiated devolutions are definitely getting ghosted by the hivemind

[paper bluff]

Oof left on read. I'm sure they'll make their own hive mine with black jack and hyper cocaine

Also would be funny is one does kill the patriarch, the hermaitus takes its place and then just glorps out a new hermaitus

[dense sedge]

I really like the malstrains

[past sphinx]

The nids being able to just make humanoids feels worrying

[south axle]

We don't know what is under the cloak, and not what he is made of

[paper bluff]

To call the mechanicus members..... humanoid seems a bit of a misnomer

Like calling sparkling water and Coca-Cola the same thing. Yeah kinda but ooooh there's a big gulf there

[south axle]

It might just be a left behind or stolen servitor and some Malstrain biomass implanted with the memories of Hermiatus

[jaunty dawn]

its like the kelermorph

[south axle]

Don't know the lore behind the kelermorphs

[solemn gull]

Aren’t kelermorphs just cultists who shoot good (and are a leader option)

[jaunty dawn]

no they're actively designed to become folk heroes

late stage cult when the patriarch understands psychology better and is more able to craft specific things

the kelermorph is built to be a public icon for the cult

[dense sedge]

I wonder what the difference between the two malstrain gangs are

[paper bluff]

There's 2?

[solemn gull]

I thought there was just malstrain gang and normal gsc gang

[paper bluff]

I think the brood scum is malstrain hybrids

[paper bluff]

I just read the article. He is the magnus

[paper bluff]

Well damn, just realized tyranids have Golas from dune now then with this guy

[sweet solar]

FUCK YEAH

[sweet solar]

awww i hoped it was a full tech priest going wayland utani rather than a primarhc using them

this really makes me wanna make a mechanicus experimenting on genestealers gsc/mech army tho
one day.....when theres money....

[past sphinx]

Iron hive

[sweet solar]

not exactly what im thinking but still rad as hell

this ryle

rules

[verbal ermine]

oooh

cybernids

the cybernetic biovore with the robot spores looks sick

[runic swallow]

I’m sure the mechanicus messing with tyranids will go great and not result in new biomorphs, no wait stop don’t look at those Imperial Army books

[runic swallow]

Oh boy do I have news for you about The Anphelion Project

It’s a Forge World IA book where they do just that and it goes totally fine

[sweet solar]

ooooooo

i gotta get a copy of that.....

[runic swallow]

Unfortunately it may be out of print, I’m unsure if they kept printing the Imperial Armor book after Chambers died, since they were kinda his baby

And they were kinda pricy even new, I think $70?

Weirdly one of the most expensive books I own is a out of print 40k book, that I didn’t even realize was rare until I casually mentioned owning one and people went

[paper bluff]

My friend, I've had that happen so much

[runic swallow]

I just bought it at a Barnes and Nobels years ago for like $15, how was I supposed to know

[sweet solar]

what book?

[paper bluff]

The primarch books are insane

[runic swallow]

Imperial Infantryman’s Primer

[sweet solar]

dang i woulda expected that to stay in print

[runic swallow]

Same!

[finite compass]

I'm reminded of one of newer Eisenhorn short stories.

RE: Tyranid stuff

Sblock if anybody cares about plot spoilers but like

||Dude is brought in to deal with a case of weird animal attacks/murders. Culprit turns out to be a Hormagaunt that some idiot noble smuggled on-planet so he could hunt it, with predictable results||

[runic swallow]

Yeah that sounds like a classic Inquisitor mystery

[finite compass]

But yes, leaned very heavily into the whole "yeah, this thing is actually terrifying and doesn't behave like a natural animal at all"

And I have the primer!

My big White Whale is finding the Liber Chaotica books for a reasonable price

I only managed to get the Tzeentch one when they were in print

[runic swallow]

Apparently the smaller run of Damocles Campaign primers are the really, really rare ones

But anyways, I’m perfectly happy just to keep mine and flip through it every so often

[lucid scarab]

Need to read this now wtf

[sweet solar]

eisenhorn does a bunch of things like this tbh

id reccomend just picking up the omnibus used

[valid brook]

Imperial Armor books are extremely oop and the more sought-after ones go for a few bills on ebay

[sweet solar]

eaurgh

well maybe ill get lucky lmao

[valid brook]

You’re in luck, Vol. 3 is not the most expensive of the lot. There’s an auction now that’s sitting at the old sticker price with no bids

[runic swallow]

The lore stuff is probably out there somewhere as well

[valid brook]

Whereas if you were to want the Vraks double feature, boy howdy

[pastel rampart]

I feel exceptionally lucky that I got 3 of them for free and only had to shell out for the Khorne one.