Warhammer and Such

[peak olive]

I have seen them with magenta robes tho

[past sphinx]

the arbites kit is really really good

full of bits

everything is interchangable

[unreal cosmos]

Sick, I love their look

Was pondering using them for Solar Auxilia

Maybe pair them with GSC for a guards/prisoners gimmick

[past sphinx]

even if you just buy it for parts theres a load of pouches and holstered pistols witch are so damn useful for making munda dudes

also a normal webgun

[jaunty dawn]

their armour is so cool

wanna use them for anything except cops haha

[unreal cosmos]

Could be good for knight weirdos

[past sphinx]

give em chainswords and paint em up with quartering and such and boom totally feudal world dudes

[unreal cosmos]

Could also suit their shield/baton combo

[jaunty dawn]

I like it as an option for stormtrooper carapace

[desert jay]

It's a Kill Team kit isn't it? Those tend to be real good

[past sphinx]

aye, im personally really suprised that GW would still make something like this with how attached to monopose the armies are these days

shows me for being such a negative nancy

[jaunty dawn]

the new kroot kit is pretty awesome

locates with like a triangle shape

all the arms work on all the bodies and blend despite like

them being nekkid

it just varies a lot basically

I really need to find a kroot colour scheme

[thin ibex]

I haven't colored my kroot yet but I want to do like a cool tone and blue head spines I think

Or white

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/SydanFGC/status/1801326953603228073

[uneven ember]

https://x.com/BitsHammer/status/1801367203880550473

Nefarious Bits 🏳️‍🌈 (@BitsHammer) on X

Get in the robot Perturabo.

Twitter · Jun 13, 2024, 9:33 PM

[runic swallow]

Yeah, but Shinji notably had supportive people around him

[desert jay]

The Angels are explicitly not alien tho

[tired cairn]

Japan really shouldn't have given them permanent residency

[floral herald]

Sorry I think the implication of Asuka-Dorn is more interesting here

[unreal cosmos]

Bile taking the pronouns of everyone he defeats

[raw vessel]

A Bile thing to do would have the coat still be human flesh, he just bioengineered people into having the patterns of the flags.

[sweet solar]

could transition have saved him

[thin ibex]

so auspex's recent video (havent watched it yet, just red the title) asks "should bolters be better". My first thought was yeah absolutely, they struggle to wound an orc. But if bolters were made uniformally higher str for example, that'd be kind of imbalanced right? What would other ways to make bolters stronger be in that case

an extra attack? more AP? a tag? I feel like intercessor bolters are in a good spot with assault and heavy

and i guess to be fair, bolters wound at least like 5 factions basic units on 3's

[bright dove]

Bolters are fine I think. You're not going to be great against MEQ units, but you're generally not lacking the tools for that.

[thin ibex]

heck they're not great against other marines, but they do wound on 4s

you know, thinking about it, its motly orks that are the biggest offender, but also orks have high tough and trash saves

if they do wound, they'll probably kill on a boy

[bright dove]

The thing they're probably suffering against is, like, Death Guard?

But most weapons are suffering against Death Guard tbh.

[thin ibex]

also kinda feels on brand

for weapons to suffer against death guard

[bright dove]

Indeed.

[jaunty dawn]

and likewise they struggle to wound orks because orks were made tough

[spice flicker]

I am tempted to replace something here with a stormlord and 3x3 heavy weapon squads w/ lascannons and I was curious what should be replaced to fit these things in?

1980/2000 points

2x cadian castellans, power fist, plasma pistol, one is warlord (45 each)
Platoon command squad, master vox, medipack, lascannon (60)

6x cadian shock troops, melta guns (60 each)
2x catachan jungle fighters, 2x flamers (55 each)
4x10 infantry squads, lascannon, melta gun (60 each)
1x20 infantry squad, 2x lascannon, (special weapons undecided) (120)

2x rapier laser destroyer battery (35 each)
2x scout sentinels, chainsaw, hunter killer missile, lascannon (60 each)

2x Chimera, double heavy flamers, hunter killer missile (70 each)
4x Chimera, double heavy bolters, hunter killer missile (70 each)
6x taurox, Storm bolters (65 each)

[spice flicker]

Any ideas?

[thin ibex]

I don't have the points memorized unfortunately, but you'd have to drop like 600 points to squeeze that in I think

[spice flicker]

640 points

[spice flicker]

Edited to reflect current points costs

[thin ibex]

I suspect no matter what you did, you'd compromise your core idea

[spice flicker]

I guess I could get rid of the cadians and the taurox transports which would net me 750 points and therefore 110 plus the original extra 20 spare from before.

With 130 points I can do a 2nd pair of scout sentinels since I maxed out chimeras or a 2nd 20 man infantry squad.

[thin ibex]

Can you get a wyvern?

Some kind of indirect fire?

[spice flicker]

This is in tts so I could since they're 110 right now

[spice flicker]

I know originally this list was to be the end goal list for a crusade but now I'm curious about something. Should I stay focused on infantry in transports or instead try and see about building thr lists to focus on as much artillery as possible. Caravan of metal boxes or claimant to the legacy of napoleon, king of artillery?

[past sphinx]

I have stippled paint for 2 days

[thin ibex]

https://pastebin.com/2NH4DxtD

[spice flicker]

Changes I'd make would be add some infantry squads (they can bring mortars) and maybe swap the basilisks for wyverns and a colossus since the later is the anti-vehicle artillery.

[sweet solar]

very very late but i think the answer is basically that there is an implicot choice in game design and particularly this kind of story heavy wargame

should game balance care about lore , or should lore care about game balance

and 40k VERY VERY carefuly does not answer that in a consistent way, because it would make three modern staples ("balance parches for tournaments" and "introducing new units and factions both from lore or for ballance or new entirely" and "replacing existing units with new units or nothing") WAY harder for no real gain for either the lore or the gameplay other than consistency and creativity, which arent direct goals

[floral herald]

Also bolters have never been all that lethal in 40k games

[sweet solar]

i think its why you see much more detailed lore based rules in more specialist games even for similar game sizes, because those games have the space to care more about consistency (may not be updated for years if ever) and especially creativity

[sweet solar]

oh they did used to be more lethal

but relative to everything else

specifically yeah you are right

[floral herald]

I guess maybe in the old days when 2 wound infantry were super rare

[sweet solar]

yeah

and 3s was the standard stat profile

3t 3s

[floral herald]

But my point is mostly that bolters have pretty much always been serviceable but not something to get excited about outside of maybe some units which super buffed them

[sweet solar]

(for basic troops units you were required to field multiple of at least)

yeah

except in specialist games

like in horus heresy nearly every legion gets their own special better bolter with extra rules

some are meh but some are nasty

or in smaller scale games especially thinking about how i used to play inquisitor a little, or even in necromunda

where you have more granularity and a lower baseline

in terms of power and lethality

warhammer isnt the same as warhammer 40k, so there are unintuitive differences

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s fair - bolters are pretty good in Kill Team as well

Albeit a fair amount of that is usually them having a space marine behind them with 3+ shooting and a shoot twice stratagem they can spam

[jaunty dawn]

I don't think there's really anything that's stopped being t3?

[floral herald]

There has been toughness inflation but mostly of ex T4

[jaunty dawn]

orks went up in toughness but they always had 4

[floral herald]

I think the big one is wound inflation compared with bolters

[jaunty dawn]

ye

the other side of the coin is the fact that bolter equivalents were also really common

[desert jay]

I think the funniest part of wound inflation is how it's extra-inflated for officers/leaders/etc

[thin ibex]

oh i think after talking about it more and like thinking about it after i posted that message, im of the opinion that bolters are kind of pretty ok as they are

i think what had me thinking about it is how space marines struggle to bolter kill orks specifically

but also, ork boys are still relatively easy to kill despite this

and its better than everyone and their mother having invulns

[sweet solar]

if i was gonna make bolters better id just cost out some kind of ballances synergistic upgrade

take a tech marine or ceteran seargent in a squad to unlock one of the varient ammo options for the squad kinda deal

thinking of the old tyrannic veterans varient anti tyranid bolter rounds and deathwatch ammo options

[jaunty dawn]

what made bolters briefly fairly good was bolter discipline + ap from doctrine

but even then it was used on stuff like hurricane bolters

but then the ap eventually got kinda neutered by armour of contempt

[sweet solar]

oh yeah

[past sphinx]

its simple we upgrade marines to custodes like ability and kit and push goldies up another notch

i forsee no problems with this

[hearty relic]

Alright, I have a goofy question to ask

Using New Recruit to go back to an idea I had of doing a traitor guard unit (based off a list Stormtalus here gave me)

did Cultist Mobs being able to use flamers and grenade launchers get snipped out of the rules for 10th somewhere (probably with the Codex drop if anything)?

since on that site it's split itself into Cultist Mob and Cultist Mob (legends)

[thin ibex]

recent dex change yeah

cultists are now pure melee

but traitor guard squads are useful

and are a thing

[hearty relic]

so I am noticing

currently I've started on the premise I may stick with for any games (if I can ever afford it) of Traitor Guard + Cultists working for a Chaos Knight faction

(represented by using 3 War Dogs to circumvent bad against vehicles for this army, which I think is allowed)

[thin ibex]

if you run the cult detachment you can still bring csm vehicles for vehicle busting

you get speedier damned units, which include the cultists and traitor guard

throw in a couple predator annhilators loaded up with lascannons

[dense sedge]

there a chaos cultists detachment for csm?

[desert jay]

Yeah!

Honestly for vehicle busting you can bring oblits or havocs or helbrutes too if they're more your thing than tanks or war dogs

[finite compass]

I still very much miss the old LatD list.

Wish you could do what Genestealer Cults do now and bring appropriately-converted IG stuff.

[thin ibex]

I feel like the cultist detach, while not as strong as the green tide or kroot, is still quite an effective way to use mass bodies to control the map

And since the cult leader unit provides an invuln, your big chunky units can be rather resilient while they gum up your enemy

[spice flicker]

For an upcoming crusade i was thinking of going with guard but should I go infantry+transport spam (with the Stormlord party bus later) or go infantry+tank spam (74+9 respectively by 2000 points) instead?

[jovial berry]

Our first fucking dollar store Night Lord is done.
The next two will be epicer

[spice flicker]

Nice

[jaunty dawn]

I'd probably do a bit of both tbh

transports and tanks

[jovial berry]

We tried our best to freehand a skull for the helmet, which went pretty good imo

[spice flicker]

Maybe next could be a Chaplain's skull helmet?

[spice flicker]

It'd give the infantry more protection but at the cost of firepower I'm afraid. Also we're starting at 500 points increasing at 250 point increments which is just enough for about any Leman russ (minus demolisher) and infantry squad being added per increment.

Thinking for initial 500 for the tanks going with:
Cadian castellan
2x10 catachans (double flamers)
3x hellhounds
500/500

[jovial berry]

Eh, depends if we can find one to buy locally.
But that will probably be rather difficult.

But the freehand painting fits with the ‘stuff we stole and just spray painted’ vibe.

We also finished this bad boy who we’re gifting to a friend who plays Necrons.

[spice flicker]

Nice

[runic swallow]

Gotta say, spent the money on a wet pallet and I regret my painting sins of yesteryear, I should have seen the light before now

[jaunty dawn]

nicee

[runic swallow]

Seriously they’re really nice, helps get smooth coverage

[jaunty dawn]

life changing

[runic swallow]

Honestly? Kinda

So much smoother “two thin coats” coverage

[pastel rampart]

Couple of tips for one of those:

1. Parchment paper is a cheap and easy replacement for the paper. Some of the wet pallets that are sold have a "reusable" one and that's a bit of a lie. They don't last that long.
2. When you're done painting in terms of like "I finished this squad/project and won't be painting for a bit," clean the crap out of both the container and the sponge and let both of them dry. Letting it sit around with the cover will just get mold. You'll greatly extend the life of the sponge this way.

[jovial berry]

We use uh… wet paper towels

[pastel rampart]

Those work well too.

[jaunty dawn]

my first one was paper towels for a reservoir and parchment paper for the palette haha

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYvr_Z64EZI Then there's this kind.

[jovial berry]

Most of it for us is ‘fuck it we ball’ because hey, the level we paint at now is probably the best we can get and that’s fine.
(We have chronic wrist pain and minor shakiness in our wrist due to a past injury)

They look sick from a distance and on the table so hell yeah

[runic swallow]

Yeah, I need to remember to be better about cleaning it out, definitely don’t want mold

[jovial berry]

Perfect for Nurgle models

A bit of mold in the paint /j

[pastel rampart]

The trick for me is more or less what I said above: if I finished a squad of dudes, regardless on if I'm going to paint a similar squad in a day or so, I'll clean it out.

It's a habit I drilled into my head the first time I got mold and had to get a new sponge.

Now you can put the whole pallet into the fridge which helps, especially for long projects like really big models, but that's a "sometimes" thing.

[runic swallow]

Yeah, that’s what it said in the little instruction manual

It’s more me needing to go “will I actually be painting tomorrow?”

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, that's a level of forethought I sometimes lack, hah.

[runic swallow]

However, it’s definitely nice

[jovial berry]

Oh, we paint whenever we feel like it

[runic swallow]

I’m glad I bought it even if it’s a bit expensive (it’s the army painter one, and it has a nice little storage section in it for my brushes which is definitely better than just having them loose in a box or in a ziplock)

I will be a bit sad when I have to replace the water absorbent pads, but I’ll just use baking paper when I run out of the top sheets

[jovial berry]

Cursed paining setup

[runic swallow]

Eh, we’ve all been there

[jovial berry]

It’s gonna stay like this for forever :)

[pastel rampart]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078DQXQC Sponge cloths do the same thing and are cheap.

5 pack for $6.

[jovial berry]

We want them to look nice-ish, but mostly just for playing innit

[runic swallow]

Oh, cool, thanks

[jovial berry]

We did put a bit more effort into the Orikan though, as it’s a gift for someone.

[runic swallow]

Well, I just like my workspaces to be neat though they don’t always stay that way

More commenting on that than any painting skill or method

[jovial berry]

This is the best we can organize a painting setup while being able to keep track of everything

[jovial berry]

Understandable

Our painting skills leave much to be desired but hey it’s fun

[runic swallow]

I’m not exactly great but I also want my stuff to look good as possible, so I take forever

[pastel rampart]

I'm a big proponent of "paint to whatever level satisfies you." You're the ultimate arbiter of what is considered "good enough" paint-wise and don't worry what others think.

[jovial berry]

It also depends on what you want.
We prefer more solid and vibrant colors on our minis

[dense sedge]

you know what would be a fun liscensced 40k game? Advance wars: The Horus Heresy

[upper bluff]

Only if it had the cute little chibi pixel art

Ok not actually but it would be funny

I could see them making a legion imperialis videogame like that though

[jovial berry]

Yeah

Horus but a little guy

[pastel rampart]

Classic.

https://vxtwitter.com/JBoneDS/status/1801720100405264791

[bold halo]

ooh

[solemn gull]

Another necromunda victory

[unreal cosmos]

Yeaaah

[sweet solar]

THE GREEN RIM IS THE SLICKEST

[floral herald]

Just noticed that Vashtorr's mini has nipples and a bellybutton

What does bro need them for

I need to magnetize the chest armor

[jaunty dawn]

...hm.

[tired cairn]

Humans have a hard time imagining bipeds without them, so he got stuck with them

[floral herald]

You can't see them when fully assembled

And these guys don't

Is this like a super cryptic hint that Vashtorr is a daemon prince or something?

[desert jay]

Rotigus also has nipples

[tired cairn]

Maybe it

's a mark of power in the 40k universe

[floral herald]

Works for Blood Angels

[pastel rampart]

Dude's got 10 nipples.

[unreal cosmos]

Vashtorr's body is partially made out of human sacrifices I think

[jaunty dawn]

i dont think angronn has nipples

[floral herald]

Nope, Angron doesn't

Though, the primarchs are made from the ground up it might be that none of them have nipples

[tired cairn]

Definitely no belly buttons then

[desert jay]

What about Magnus?

[jaunty dawn]

daemon magnus definitely wants you to think he has nipples

[pastel rampart]

Not having nipples might be what made Angron ultimately turn traitor.

[floral herald]

Surprisingly there is a chest under the armor and no

But it looks like Magnus might have a bellybutton

(Angron doesn't have a visible belly)

[jaunty dawn]

now wondering what factions can claim zero modelled nipples

i think eldar? but dark eldar have wracks

[floral herald]

I'm gonna guess Necrons

Oh Tyranids probably

[jaunty dawn]

i thought ctan might but looks like necrons check out yeah

[floral herald]

It's close (I also checked the C'tan but they just have pecs)

[jaunty dawn]

i had to check aun shi but tau pass

[floral herald]

Sororitas only don't make it because of Arco-Flagellants

[bright dove]

We come to the important question

Do Orks have nipples?

[uneven ember]

going with "no"
Just big green pec slabs

[jaunty dawn]

zodgrod does

...mozrog

[bright dove]

... That's a shame. They shouldn't.

[jaunty dawn]

dunno where zodgrod came from

[bright dove]

Well now I have to fight you, because obviously his name is actualy Zodgrod.

[jaunty dawn]

painboss agrees, so he had his removed

[uneven ember]

ah, yup, there they are

oh, do tau have nips?
I don't know and also feel like they mostly wear shirts so it's harder to say

[jaunty dawn]

aun shi has convenient coat coverage so hard to say

pecs are very vertical

[floral herald]

Lordy Vashtorr is really finicky to put together

His hand has nearly as many parts as a normal legionary

[lofty warren]

The parts division on GW models is often baffling to me

I assume its because its got some depth to it that requires a lot of seperate parts

Looking at the sprue

But theres gotta be a better way

[floral herald]

For Vashtorr?

[lofty warren]

Yeah

And a bunch of gw stuff

[mental birch]

GW does jigsaw puzzles of squeezing sruff

[spice flicker]

In a tank+infantry heavy list is it worth taking 2x2 scout sentinels with lascannons or invest instead in another standard Leman russ+infantry squad?

[spice flicker]

For reference in the list there are 8 tanks (3 hellhounds and 5 Leman russes) as well as 7 infantry squads (2 catachans and 5 infantry.)

[mental birch]

Scout sentinels good

I don't think you need more

Of tonk

[jaunty dawn]

iron warriors

[south axle]

I think the banner is from a different shoot, if you look at te helmet in the corner and it not matching the ones from the Fist squad

[jaunty dawn]

yeah no it is

just weirdness

[spice flicker]

Top of banner looks like the eye of horus

Sons of horus symbol not Egyptian symbol

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1061944782164860928/1251067820532563998/VID_60231209_115704_374.mp4?ex=666fde34&is=666e8cb4&hm=15c28d9457b34f8dfff8d76a8e10cebdd9d71ed14785ab2a15fc531b275ab18f&

[jaunty dawn]

cant believe we have to pay for balance dataslates now (/S)

[lofty warren]

Dont give em ideas

[mental birch]

That's what warhammer players used to do

Hahahaha

But they were called White Dwarf updates

[bright dove]

You wanted Harlequin rules? Hope you bought White Dwarf!

[uneven ember]

See I don't think that was a problem, it's not like the backorders were hard to get, so maybe you don't get a whole Codex but if you wanted to play Necrons or Harlequins you could find the right issue.

But I remember when the Terminators got their 5++ save in White Dwarf, so your most expensive Elites got way more survivable if you knew where to look...

[thin ibex]

You know what we need? We need an ork model release with ghaz as big as Angron or bigger

Ork nob that punches knights cause he's been in conflict for so long

[lofty warren]

who's that one ork who's waaagh went to a khorne world

and he just keeps fighting forever

[junior robin]

Tuska, the "Daemon-Killa"

[lofty warren]

yeah him

make him

[compact gate]

betting admech is gonna be shit in the dataslate

[finite compass]

Or Chapter Approved books

[upper bluff]

I hope so badly that you're wrong 😕

If admech still looks like shit I'm just going to play AOS

Why spend more money on models of a faction that they stomp into the dirt every 3 months

But no, I have hope that... The army will hit on 3+ at least

And doctrina imperatives for everyone. I understand the flavor is that Skitarii are having the orders beamed into their brains but the tech priests are the ones beaming it so shouldn't they know it already?

[floral herald]

This actually seems sort of like a doomposting thing

[upper bluff]

Is the dataslate confirmed for Saturday? I've been assuming it is because they still have 5 AOS faction highlights but I guess they've never said

[tired cairn]

Do they normally release it on the weekend?

It is supposed to roughly correspond with the new mission pack

[upper bluff]

Idk I assumed it would be a little earlier

So people can stew on the rules separately

[tired cairn]

Oh, I did think it would be this upcoming week

[upper bluff]

Although we already have all the mission pack rules don't we?

[tired cairn]

Uh, not for purchase, but probably it's on the internet

(Pretty sure the release is next saturday)

[thin ibex]

i doubt that we're gonna see an army wide bump up to BS 3+, that feels like a pretty dramatic change

[upper bluff]

Agreed

[jaunty dawn]

they should just +1 every admech stat 😌

[upper bluff]

My dream is that they change the 6" battleline stuff to both be stronger and work on data tether units not battleline

[thin ibex]

i dont know admech well enough to speak to what they need, but a mass increase to BS feels a bit wild

[compact gate]

they should +1 the points per dollar ratio at minimum

[jaunty dawn]

only if you paint them pink

[compact gate]

seriously the price they want for ironstriders is rediculous

1 point per dollar at best for a model comparable to a scout sentinel

[upper bluff]

Reminder you can add 4 ironstriders to the admech combat patrol and still not break 500 points

So hopefully whatever they do makes all the units more expensive

[compact gate]

reminder the maximum allotment of both types of skitarii won't even break a 1000 points

you can field 120 skitarii for less than the minimum value of a game

[jaunty dawn]

they should make dragoons crit hit on a 4+ like in 8th edition again

[upper bluff]

I want to have all my technology I hoard from the imperium to feel better than the stuff we give the guard

[compact gate]

admech should feel more elite than guard

[thin ibex]

yeah some power boosting would be good, just don't know their in's and out well enough to know how best they'd be upgraded

[upper bluff]

As someone who's entire experience with 40k has been playing them they just need more than a few units that feel like a threat

[compact gate]

there's so many problems in admech

1: the army rule feels like a detachment rules, and the detachment rules feel like strats, and the strats feel like rube goldbergs for +1 to wound

[past sphinx]

but we should all consider, admech being busted and painful to fight for 2 editions

this pain will build their character

[compact gate]

admech was literally in the bottom tier for half of 9th what do you mean?

[tired cairn]

They had a good codex/detachment at one point

[compact gate]

9th had a codex creep issue

admech was good at the start of 9th when they were the codex the crept the most, but then eldar tau and custodes came out

[tired cairn]

And I think had a good run in parts of 8th?

But still

[thin ibex]

they had some especially strong combos in 10th for a bit also

[compact gate]

that was like 5 years ago

[thin ibex]

but i think those were strong combos on a not great army

[compact gate]

we had exactly one good combo

[upper bluff]

Yeah the index had a dominus wipe an entire squad of marines by itself I thinn

[tired cairn]

The D6+X mortal wounds flamer was pretty funny

[compact gate]

and then it got removed from the codex release

[tired cairn]

It was the other one

The floaty magos

[compact gate]

manipulus + auto wounding and +3 attacks attached to a brick of breachers

and then the enhancement got nerfed, and the breachers got nerfed

because they were worried that stiltboy would be too OP with +3 attacks

[floral herald]

Rumor has it it’s gonna be similar to SoB - big buffs across the board and point increases

[compact gate]

stiltboy would've been accepted better if he wasn't the new model for a bad codex

[upper bluff]

Yeah, I like the idea of stilt boy (also Jezzail Dragoons already filled the same niche which is 😦 )

[tired cairn]

Stiltman had the problem that the vindicare assasin was a better use of points lol

[compact gate]

stiltboy has the problem of just having the WORST guns in the codex

[tired cairn]

I love how he is stealth and lone operative while being on stilts though

[jaunty dawn]

itd help if he wasnt practically t-posing

[compact gate]

nobody took jezzails, and people rarely took arquebuses until they were forced to with the wargear changes

[tired cairn]

A kneeling stiltman would have been very funny

[upper bluff]

Legs in the air

Feet up kicking behind them in the air like they got a text from a cute boy

[tired cairn]

lmao

[thin ibex]

im curious if the big bot detach is gonna go nuclear

[floral herald]

See they’ll be looking for people at normal height

[thin ibex]

ith the buffs

[upper bluff]

Honestly maybe. It's detachment rule is a joke. Kastellans don't need heavy and giving them assault means they can't charge

[jaunty dawn]

bots are still paying for pre cap wrath of mars

[upper bluff]

The strats are ok though

Compared to other detachments the strats actually do things.

Anyways I just like the stiltboy because it has that idea of super specialized cybernetics

[tired cairn]

They suck because they are all in the command phase

Including the defensive one lol

But it was a neat idea

[upper bluff]

Oh are they lol

[compact gate]

honestly admech felt like the codex was written before a lot of indexes were

it sticks to some of the design principles of 10th more than others

it just REALLY sucks that they stuck to the ones that nerf us the most

[desert jay]

And also Pariah Nexus being teased with "Cawl and other tech-priests pulling forbidden tech out of the vaults" at the same damn time

[lofty warren]

i've only really been in the game since 8th

a question for ppl who have been longer in the hobby: is the kind of lukewarm to hostile reception from existing players for a new edition like this normal? i don't really remember it for 9th and 8th was a whole other bucket

[runic swallow]

Yes, oftentimes

[lofty warren]

like i've seen a lot more specific critiques of mechanics

and design styles

its interesting

[runic swallow]

I should say, sometimes it’s just “grumble grumble it’s not the old thing” sometimes it’s very cogent, well thought out criticism

[desert jay]

It’s common but also varies with where you sit on the eating-starving spectrum with the armies you play

[upper bluff]

I think it's just bad right now because the codexes have ranged from "oh we got the good one" to a $60 book of nerfs and rules that don't work

[lofty warren]

mhm

its probably also that i am now an actual adult who's paying attention

[desert jay]

And also there’s stuff like you can definitely tell they had grand plans for battleshock that either didn’t materialize or didn’t pan out, so if your army interacts with it a bunch it kinda stings

[floral herald]

Yes always

By at least some people

[lofty warren]

yeah absolutely i saw it in some respects when i was getting into the hobby

before i became infinity pilled

but never on the scale

[upper bluff]

I think things are looking up more though. GSC codex isn't a nothing book like Tau and it isn't a disaster like dark angels so things should steady out a bit now

[lofty warren]

its ubiquitous

i wonder if part of it isnt also that theres a lot more visible alternatives to playing mainline 40k

the local 40k players at my university have basically all migrated to HH

[thin ibex]

i think also that the warhammer fandom in general is just prone to being extremely reactive and negative about almost anything

[upper bluff]

HH?

[lofty warren]

horus heresy

[upper bluff]

Ah

[lofty warren]

30k

[lofty warren]

100%

[floral herald]

Outside of DA and stodes I think the codexes have been mostly decent

[lofty warren]

but its more that i'm seeing it at scale in a way i havent before

[floral herald]

It seems baseline to me

[lofty warren]

which to me says i just wasn't paying attention

[floral herald]

If you wanna see an edition war which really kicked off it was 7e

[lofty warren]

i know 7e-8e was a big deal but a lot of the anger i saw then was lore-oriented

rather than mechanics

[upper bluff]

Idk I think things were looking alright before the last points update that's when I think things turned negative

[thin ibex]

a lot of criticism can come from a valid place, but its often blown out of proportion and often leaps into "this weeks doomsaying"

[floral herald]

7e took some time to sour but people really didn’t like it

Game was not balanced, scale too big, too many releases

[thin ibex]

it can be an issue for me that i often stop listening when an issue when people get extremely doomy about it

even if the issue itself is legit

[floral herald]

Yeah there have also been huge innovations in internet complaining technology :p

[runic swallow]

Yeah, 7e was a mess

[floral herald]

A modern Twitter user only needs 24 hours to get as mad as 6 weeks of early Facebook discussion

[runic swallow]

So many micro codex releases, rules creep, etc

[floral herald]

Yeah and it was socomplicated and confusing

8e was probably one of the the biggest edition changes but also lowkey saved GW

[runic swallow]

I was so glad when they removed the multiplication table hit and wound charts for “4+” and such

[floral herald]

I liked those

[runic swallow]

And gave infantry more than one wound, expanded strength and toughness, etc

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s all good

I like the old WS/BS rules more but I don’t miss most of the rules norms

[thin ibex]

8e felt like it simplified things in a way that made it more accessible to people

even if i didn't quite like 8e and 9e's hyper lethality, it was still pretty fun to play

[spice flicker]

I just remembered cadian castellans can't attach to catachans, so back to the drawing board for the 500 pts infantry+guards list.

[thin ibex]

yup they dont lead the jungle warriors

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/MeU_317/status/1800047576370299048?t=IZa_0t9oc1hN6Fqb1gLU5Q&s=19

🐈Me-U🐈🦫 (@MeU_317) on X

Twitter · Jun 10, 2024, 6:09 AM

[runic swallow]

Huh, when did GW redesign their painting handles? I bought a new one since I left my old one at home, and they changed the grip from a barrel shape to a sorta spindle thing, and I’m not sure I like it

[spice flicker]

Well the list originally was a trio of Inferno cannon+multi-melta hellhounds with 2 catachan squads and a leader. With a castellan I would reach exactly 500 points but I am kinda annoyed that commissars only have 2 orders they can give otherwise they'd be my go to in this case.

[thin ibex]

could pop priests in the squads

[spice flicker]

Are they worth it?

[thin ibex]

big shrug

they improve the melee that the catachans like to get into

but catachans fold like paper under any amount of firepower

[mental birch]

Weren't they just compilations of white dwarf updates

[finite compass]

Mostly. IIRC each one also had errata and rules updates, though.

[mental birch]

Ahhh

[finite compass]

dating myself.

[mental birch]

Calm down there grandma

:p

[finite compass]

I remember teh revised assault rules in 3rd being a A Big Deal ™️ when they came out in CA

[mental birch]

Free rules update seems like an improvement for the dinosaur that is GW

[paper bluff]

in buying out a custodes army, I gained an Ares gunship.... I never imagined using such a thing but I have it now

[thin ibex]

those are fun

[floral herald]

Coincidence or did you get another "I AM MAD ABOUT FEMALE CUSTODES" special deal?

[desert jay]

Could also possibly be a "I AM SAD ABOUT CODEX" deal

[floral herald]

That's true

Someone I know got a huge steal on a stodes army

Like 200$ for a 2k list

[desert jay]

whistles

[thin ibex]

threw together a quick list with an ares

ares is real expensive but it does seem to pack a hell of a lot of AT firepower

and despite being airborne, its tough as hell

was kinda struggling with the benefit of getting +1 to hit is out of th talons ofthe emperor detach

or am, i guess

was gonna build it with Auric champions, but they seem somewhat difficult to use

based on characters and all

[thin ibex]

decided to be a bit silly

Riding heavy

ironically i think it could actually work, especially if i ran it in ironstorm instead

[paper bluff]

He was a build, paint, eh not really into them that much anymore guy. He bought up a combat patrol and customized them then might have just "eh not that into this" was a great deal though

New necromunda is cool. Like a genestealer cult member mutating into a zoanthrope

/malenthrope

[floral herald]

Ah nice

[paper bluff]

The ares was a printed but it's accurate

[thin ibex]

i wonder if there would be a fun way to make a roll-for army construction situation

[solemn gull]

I’m really interested in how the narrative will change now that a light is being cast on the genestealer cults

[paper bluff]

Just variety would be nice (and less heros/characters being everything) for genestealer cults

[solemn gull]

Also they are going to be separate from the regular GSC list so I wonder how a pure “bug” gang would even function like they are not going to the trading post or capturing territories are they?

[solemn gull]

I never really thought GSC were that character focused?

[paper bluff]

The ymgarl genestealer has been in lore a while so variants getting cults seems cool to mean

[paper bluff]

With the new big brain guy, won't they have 14 character units?

[dense sedge]

I really like this

I wish gsc proper got stuff like this

[solemn gull]

Don’t GSC only have The psyker and Alpha for their leader types?

[thin ibex]

side note, i really like the diea of staged deployment rules for missions

like starting with X points on the board, bring in Y points on turn 2, and then bring in however many left on turn 3

[paper bluff]

That i do not know. I don't play them... in fact I've never seen some one playing GSC

[solemn gull]

Sadly they are a under represented gang

I think they are very fun to play

[past sphinx]

They have mining lasers and free suspensors

Goated

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408609553597464579/1252275677520986212/GQNp02bXUAAbkJC.jpg?ex=6671a01b&is=66704e9b&hm=694344c538d085bf80461f7e607fd56235ff1e059f973682091ed4b3a6cec0eb&

[solemn gull]

That 30 credit third arm is probably the greatest thing they ever got, Bargain suspensors are way better then abberants or psykers

Hopefully some day I will be able to field a full team of mining lasers

[thin ibex]

mining lasers are kind of incredible militant ranged weapons tbh

guard should take notes

[paper bluff]

And votan?

Hang on..... kin genestealers make sense

[solemn gull]

I mean arguably there are better heavy weapons for range but if you’re playing zone mortalis the 18” is enough and you won’t find any other heavy weapons with a better ammo roll

[zinc field]

Primaris have lastalons, so Cawl was taking notes at least

[thin ibex]

arent las talons like... weaker tho?

[zinc field]

Also, is anyone else imagining that land raider variant with umpteen bolters on the sponsons with mining lasers instead?

[thin ibex]

laser raider

release a land raider with sponson twin linked multilasers, and a twin lastalon on the front, helgun pintle

[zinc field]

Are they weaker? I don’t actually have the marine codex to check

[thin ibex]

same, i think lastalons are str 9 tho

[zinc field]

Oh huh they’re str 10 on the firestrike turret (thanks wahapedia)

[thin ibex]

ah yeah str 10

the valiants are str 10 too

mining laser is str 12

[jovial berry]

Just like Dune

[solemn gull]

In Dune’s case “Drugs fix all your problems” also works

[jovial berry]

“Islam is epic, do cocaine”

[solemn gull]

On another note do people take alliances often in their campaigns? I’ve been wanting to try some out but it’s hard to find good models to use for the alliance fighters.

[orchid venture]

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/retro-defenders-sample-pack

i made up some guys and you can download them

[thin ibex]

Alliance?

[jaunty dawn]

necromunda I think

you can ally with house guilds and get special ppl

some of them have cool official models but a lot of them don't (yet) to make yourself

these are my fav

[storm schooner]

it's 15+ because the guy in the diving bell says fuck

[paper bluff]

You also forget "become a worm and be a rat bastard, the most bastard, for thousands of years"

[jovial berry]

He’s not done but this is the coolest mini we’ve painted so far.
We are so stupid proud of the bat wing we painted onto the helmet.

[solemn gull]

Still waiting on cold traders because I love their style

[jovial berry]

We dropped the Hive Tyrant and he exploded, fuck.
Thankfully nothing broke off but we’re gonna have to proxy this bad boy this weeks game

[jaunty dawn]

oof

[jovial berry]

The lobster got eated </3

[solemn gull]

Smh did he forget how to fly?

[jovial berry]

Idiot didn’t flap his big ass wings

[solemn gull]

Natural selection now when you rebuild him he will roll better

[jovial berry]

Rebuilding him like RoboCop

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/SoylentRobot/status/1802393520860217553

[solemn gull]

So did he tattoo the people’s flesh before flaying them?

[quaint compass]

He genecrafted them for their coloration

[solemn gull]

Gnarly freehanding

[lucid scarab]

I try my best!

[dense sedge]

resin necromunda stuff is so expensive

[soft willow]

I mean, it's ForgeWorld resin in general.

[jaunty dawn]

the pairs hangers on come in are kinda weird

[thin ibex]

Anyone have a good proxy model for a stormsurge link?

[lofty warren]

Theres some good stls

But idk if thats an option

[thin ibex]

oh n othats what im looking for

[wintry mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/908994759962554368/1252361426694307851/IMG_6914.png?ex=6671eff7&is=66709e77&hm=88267252e6a27550b9f4f9c38d305fdea4b518de6ac966ba8e35aba40b848177&

[jaunty dawn]

thing is that's basically what the landsknecht actually did and it worked

[thin ibex]

im here for historical shit

[jaunty dawn]

just 400 odd men in a ball

[lofty warren]

Pipermakes has a bunch of tau stuff

Orca i think is the closest to surge

[thin ibex]

PWG the place to buy those stls?

also do you know anywhere where i can see real prints of their stuff rather than renders?

[past sphinx]

400 fancy lads and incredible violence can solve a lot of problems!

[runic swallow]

Hey whoa whoa whoa, the ball in that is defensive the square is offensive

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/big_eye123/status/1802592610835726423

Philip (@big_eye123) on X

This is the biggest nerd treasure find in my life so far.
It's brand new. Unpunched, everything on sprue. It even has the advertisment flyer in there.
And I got it for 20USD. Yes 20!
I'm ecstatic!

Twitter · Jun 17, 2024, 6:42 AM

[soft willow]

Whoa.

For twenty bucks?

That's a crazy steal.

[pastel rampart]

Right???

I don't even care much for BFG but you bet your ass I would've bought that for 20 ameribucks.

[plucky token]

damn, yeah, what a bargain

[lofty warren]

Yeah. Not sure whwre to see prints

Besides the discord

Which is behind patreon

[mental birch]

looking for a new T'au List
ask the expert if it's Suits or Breachers
He doesnt understand
pull out illustrated diagram explaing what is Suits and what is Breachers.
He laughs and says “it’s a good list Ma'am”
looks at list
it's Breachers

[paper bluff]

I have only fought breachers once and was able to get into melee range with them as custodes. I know with that experience I cannot judge them fairly

[tired cairn]

Where was their devilfish!?

[thin ibex]

Is a list "breachers" if they have any amount of breacherfish? Or is there a line of numbers you have to cross into?

For example, if you had 2 or even 3 breachefish but you were also running 3 hammerheads, is it a breacherfish or a hammerheads list?

[tired cairn]

Breacher fishheads

Why do devilfish carry 12 models?

[jaunty dawn]

because fire warrior squads used to be 6-12

and then after that so they could hold like 10 fw with 2 drones or a character or some such

[paper bluff]

Shot by godhammer las cannons 14 inches away

🤔or was that the time I can opener'ed it with lethal hits

Course custodes axes can wound it on a 4+

[jaunty dawn]

I think this is a prosthetic for a animal

like a dog or something

[solemn gull]

Might be a weird human prosthetic

Imperium be like that

[jaunty dawn]

definitely possible

[solemn gull]

No matter what it’s going to be a great necromunda model

[paper bluff]

Didn't adeptus arbites have a cyber mastiff model?

[jaunty dawn]

ye

[paper bluff]

That stitching like towards the top though........ more skaven? It looks crude enough

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it could be

[solemn gull]

I was thinking it was mechanicus

[paper bluff]

Okay that is a way better more than I have ever thought

[solemn gull]

Just because of the wrappings

[upper bluff]

Yeah there's been a lot of these spiky clawed mechanical things that have been teased but haven't gotten models

[solemn gull]

And there have been a lot of winged avian mechanicus models recently

They might still be cooking on that

[upper bluff]

Are these the same claws?

[jaunty dawn]

ye

or wait

hm

I remember ppl saying it was but

I don't think it is???

[solemn gull]

I think they are

[upper bluff]

Yeah see, I thought so too but neither of those match

[solemn gull]

Oh wait

Maybe it’s an alternate claw?

So you can take multiple and have variety

[upper bluff]

The left one is flat like a hand and the right is pinchy like a crab. Neither have the industrial claw of the teaser

So yeah unless there is a third claw

[jaunty dawn]

not even painted the same

[upper bluff]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

like the rumour engine is weathered style

spyrers are clean

[upper bluff]

The claws themselves also have joints on the rumour engine and the spyrers have smooth solid ones

In summary my crackpot Dark Mechanicum theory has never looked brighter

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's likely tbh

robo dogs made from people maybe

[upper bluff]

I honestly hope that dark Mechanicum doesn't get too flesh crafty. There's already so much in csm with the possessed units I'd prefer if they kept it to messed up cyborgs

[paper bluff]

Chaos-upped thrallax would be cool

You know what the ultimate dick kick would be? If 40k dark mechanicum could use the 30k now plastic robots

[upper bluff]

That's my biggest fear

Especially after the codex made it clear that a lot of the 30k stuff is still in use

[paper bluff]

It would be... the most hilarious thing they could do

[upper bluff]

It just bothers me so much like you can follow the paper trail of them planning to add the automata to 40k and then...

[thin ibex]

the thing im curious at is what would their tactical identity be as their own faction

what niche would GW carve out for them

its a similar question, initially, with the votann, though i think they're in a neat spot now

[solemn gull]

I think dark mechanicum could be cool for a high risk high reward faction, everything explodes on 1s!

[paper bluff]

I think big mech thing backed up by squishy little guys

[upper bluff]

Honestly I feel like it could just be the same as normal mechanicus. Tactical complexity and synergy between units. Just a fresh start

[solemn gull]

Yeah they probably have some crazy maulerfiend-esqe beasts

[upper bluff]

That also sounds fun

[bright dove]

Skaven time

[thin ibex]

play around with hazardous a lot perhaps

faction mechanic that when hazardous does wounds something happens maybe

or maybe you can gain some sort of benefit at the cost of hazardous-ing your stuff

@mental birch figure this might be of interest to you as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdxQXL-zbQg

very surprised to see farstalkers on a big winning list, always felt they were kind of a flavor pick

[paper bluff]

Imagine "fueled by sacrifice" that the more units around it dies the stronger the dark mech gets

Or with hazardous it could push wounds onto cultists

Negavolt cultists are already a dark mechanicum troop in a way

[tired cairn]

I would assume they wouldn't get doctrina or canticles. But also I guess most of them still worship the Machine God right?

Do dark mechanicum still think the Omnissiah and Emperor are the same person or is that a major difference in doctrine?

[jaunty dawn]

dark mech predominantly do not believe in the emperor being the omnissiah

and the fact they all left is a large part of why that's such an accepted doctrine in the adeptus

[paper bluff]

And who know how vashtorr will work with them

What would also be fun is men of iron stuff

[tired cairn]

Guy who doesn't believe that the Emperor is the Omnissiah but also is disgusted at all the warp tech stuff

[paper bluff]

It's still the wildest thing vashtorr knows about the war in heaven

[tired cairn]

I hope the Men of Iron aren't a mostly chaos thing

I want unaligned AI robots

[paper bluff]

Iron kin. What you're getting is Iron kin

[tired cairn]

Too many squishy humans around them

(And for good thematic reasons they are indistinguishable from them)

[thin ibex]

i would not be a fan of men of iron making a big return, i like them being a sort of relic of the past that forms a significant narrative foundation but plays no current role

that theres one still around is great like... small scale narrative

but dont need em making a comeback in any big way

[tired cairn]

I just like robots

[thin ibex]

valid, as do I

[paper bluff]

The cawl vs. Bile book had an interesting reveal at the end

[thin ibex]

id like to see more from the electric priesthood

[paper bluff]

A dark mech sect was ||going to resurrect their founder and put their soul into an old man of iron body they got from || Fabius Bile

[thin ibex]

oh thats neat

i guess theres not a lot one can do mechanically with the elctric priesthood

but considering the arc weapon is anti vehicle, might be cool to have like a voltegheist prist character that is functionally anti vehicle

[paper bluff]

It's basically ||possession and they already do that with || daemon engines

So it makes perfect sense lore wise IMO

[thin ibex]

i wonder if trazyn and whats his name were around for hte men of iron

trazyn has men of iron in his gallery doesn't he?

[paper bluff]

If morty can pluck his adopted dad's soul from the warp to jar him......

[tired cairn]

Necrons were probably sleeping when the Men of Iron were most active right?

[paper bluff]

This is an "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" moment

[bright dove]

Necrons were asleep, yeah.

[thin ibex]

yeah the majority of the necrons were asleep, but trazyn stayed awake

[paper bluff]

Probably but I don't recall any specific times it's mentioned

[thin ibex]

and a limited set of necrons

[paper bluff]

The.... what were they again....

They serve the triach and have those cage hover things on them

[jaunty dawn]

praetorians

[thin ibex]

orikan was the other one that was awake

[paper bluff]

I believe trayzn just woke up early. Not never went to sleep

[upper canopy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/313840529622171660/1252544239703822427/GQTrxChWUAAnvlA.png?ex=66729a39&is=667148b9&hm=569b6b74ddb7d85e3f68b436413ad451e34251e673b133e785629d1967b32213&

@final tide

[mental birch]

Man got a very good run

[thin ibex]

right?

[mental birch]

None of the counters

Ahahah

[thin ibex]

i like the missile pod enforcer group

just cause im narratively running an enforcer xD

though i plan to run them with the mixed load of plasma/missile cause it appeals to me

im currently running one strike team and one breacher team

though i have em with rifles now, and i kinda wish i could switch em to carbines. Rifles are generally better, i know, but carbines arent THAT much worse

[solemn gull]

Necromunda

I can’t stop bringing it up in every conversation

Every model is a necromunda model

To me it is the single greatest wargame ever

[mental birch]

Pure missile pod is very funny

And very effective at just being so dammed annoying

[paper bluff]

I saw some one post a custodes list with 40 custodian guard, an ares gunship, wardens and a blade champ for the new pariah nexus

[mental birch]

How did they get 40

I think that's illegal

[paper bluff]

4 cg for 180

X10

Ah mis counted

24 custodians

Only 6 CG units

[floral herald]

That seems more reasonable

Though I don't know enough about how the new narrative campaign stuff works to know if that's an annoying list or not

I know that format is in general vulnerable to skew lists

But that's CO stuff to sort out

[paper bluff]

pariah deck (2000 points)
Adeptus Custodes
Strike Force (2000 points)
Auric Champions
CHARACTERS
Shield-Captain (140 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Guardian spear
BATTLELINE
Custodian Guard (180 points)
• 4x Custodian Guard
• 4x Guardian spear
Custodian Guard (180 points)
• 4x Custodian Guard
• 4x Guardian spear
Custodian Guard (180 points)
• 4x Custodian Guard
• 4x Guardian spear
Custodian Guard (180 points)
• 4x Custodian Guard
• 4x Guardian spear
Custodian Guard (180 points)
• 4x Custodian Guard
• 4x Guardian spear
Custodian Guard (180 points)
• 4x Custodian Guard
• 4x Guardian spear
OTHER DATASHEETS
Ares Gunship (580 points)
• 2x Arachnus heavy blaze cannon
1x Arachnus magna-blaze cannon
1x Armoured hull
Custodian Wardens (200 points)
• 4x Custodian Warden
• 4x Castellan axe
1x Vexilla

Turns out it was that

[floral herald]

At 2k I think a golden horde list is fair game

[jaunty dawn]

necromunda daemon weapons???

[floral herald]

Ooh what?

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/18/apocrypha-necromunda-dare-you-wield-the-whispering-weapons/

the fiction is tldr for me but the flavour text seems to be vaguely chaotic

[floral herald]

Those seem like normal wholesome weapons to me!

(Yeah I agree that does seem very daemon-weapon-y)

[south axle]

It has normal GW proofreading

Also, what does the * on "Drawn-out Death" reference?

[paper bluff]

Yeah that's a nurgle flamer if I've ever read about one

[south axle]

More that it has the wrong name on the stat line

[storm schooner]

Traits: Whispering

I'm sure thats fine

[past sphinx]

hey by the time youve got one of the whispering weapons, you probably dont mind killing your gang fellows

[floral herald]

The actual gleeful judgement is fun

[desert jay]

A horde list with only 30 models, amazing

[topaz elk]

You can post actually anything on 4chan and people will trust it like it’s a legitimate leak

Seeing this make the rounds

The most obvious fake leak in existence

[paper bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/arthur-buster-baxter-bunny-you-really-think-someone-would-do-that-go-on-the-internet-and-tell-lies-gif-17527378

[paper bluff]

Thaaaaaat's custodes

[thin ibex]

doesnt a "40k is being reset" thing roll around like every couple years?

[bright dove]

Constantly

[cinder wraith]

7 gods

lol

lmao

[thin ibex]

"I also see in the art, Goku, Goku appears to be getting added to the universe"

[pastel rampart]

40k reset rumors have gone around for a decade at this point ever since End Times.

[thin ibex]

"It looks like in this reset, the ultramarines are getting re-empowered by matt ward"

"Cato Sicarius solo's all of chaos"

[lofty warren]

"there will be 7 chaos gods not 4"

Bait used to be believable

[topaz elk]

Wait why is the 7 gods part in particular telling it’s fake?

[lofty warren]

It doesnt really align with anything else in the setting to me

[paper bluff]

Vashtor... belakor... emps?

[lofty warren]

Its literally just adding more gods as a bit

[topaz elk]

Ahh

[paper bluff]

no not malal.... not even now

[lofty warren]

All of this is riffing on what the end times did to AOS

But 40king it

"aos added a new chaos god? Well 40k end times will add THREE"

4 way final battle including necrons and admech as big factions makes very little sense

One or the other, sure, but the two have similar aesthegics

And also admech dont have the model line to support thst

It doesnt work on the level of selling toys

All choices GW makes must be understood through the lens of "how does this sell toys"

[desert jay]

Imperial Schism rumors are more believable

Get some Imperium of Terra versus Imperium Secundus going on

[lofty warren]

I hope so

[paper bluff]

With gman as leader of terra?

The players of seccundus is kinda there with.... oh what's the old space marines name

Dante?

[upper bluff]

The 1000 year old blood Angel?

I don't know if they were ever going to do an imperial schism there would have to be another primarch

I don't really see that happening tbough

[desert jay]

The old Secundus was Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels. And two of those primarchs are returned and the third is super-dead

If I was writing it working from the status quo, probably have some shit like Cawl oversteps doctrine w/ Pariah Nexus stuff, the Lords of Terra turn on Mars, SOB and Custodes and the Iron Hands are tasked with ensuing forge worlds' compliance in supplying enough tech to keep things running, Guilliman sees this as a big overstep and shelters Cawl et al, Terra is just barely holding together unable to move against Guilliman too, Imperial Fists and Space Wolves hold to Terra too, Raven Guard I'm ??? on, SM successors and Guard landing on both sides of the aisle

[paper bluff]

Hey now! Sanguinius is less dead than horus

[floral herald]

I think they might be about the same dead now, but this is a new development

[past sphinx]

sanguinius being a 9 outta 10 dead and horus being 10 outta 10 aint great

[floral herald]

No I think its both 9/10 now

The end and the death doesn't feature the Total Soul Obliteration like older lore

[past sphinx]

hmm interesting

[floral herald]

It's... less explicit at least but they fought a really esoteric fight so its hard to say for sure

[past sphinx]

Big H got hit by the jimmy neutron brain blast and hasnt been heard of since

The Bishonen protaganist does atleast have like the sanguinor

and whispers in the warp?

idk much about either tbh i just played flesh tearers

[bright dove]

He lives on through all his sons

(Who in turn get to experience his death)

[pastel rampart]

Flaming Ghost Ferrus Mannus shows that it's really difficult to permanently destroy a primarch in spirit so Sangy being somehow lingering via the warp/Sanguinor/his sons seems fitting.

[past sphinx]

Oh did ferrus turn up again?

[pastel rampart]

Big E summoned his ghost when fighting those daemons.

[desert jay]

Oh also just thought of the funniest possible characterization: The assassins being like "pff, what's a little civil war, you'll get over it" and accepting jobs from both sides as equally legitimate

[floral herald]

"Look, last time we made a power play like y'all are doing everyone got mad"

"Count us out"

[past sphinx]

The martians have a civil war and suddenly they have to get a new suffix

[soft willow]

Legion of the Damned Primarch?

[paper bluff]

Yah in webway

[jaunty dawn]

I think there's hints that its less than sanguinius survives and more what sanguinius got made out of (changed by its time being sanguinius)

the golden and black angels

[paper bluff]

The khan would be a wild one to bring back

[desert jay]

If they keep bringing 'em back I'm hoping for Corvus Corax next

[pastel rampart]

I can see them doing dual releases of dueling (hah) primarchs, one loyalist and one traitor.

So if Corax arrives I'd expect Lorgar's whiny little shitstain self to also show up.

They'd need to bring in another loyalist first to make that release schedule balanced tho.

[desert jay]

It's been more alternating than dueling releases

[pastel rampart]

So far, yeah.

[desert jay]

Well, mostly

[pastel rampart]

Setting it up as dueling releases is just overall great story material and opens up little mini-campaigns for players.

It's 10,000 years and none of these brothers have stopped fighting each other, they're still turbo-mad this many years later. Sibling rivalry that never ends.

[desert jay]

Magnus, Mortarion, Guilliman, Angron, Lion, Fulgrim(?)

[pastel rampart]

Fulgrim's latest model was 30k, and GW doesn't do resin for big boy 40k models so I'd expect a redesign in plastic.

[floral herald]

I'm guessing Fulgrim is gonna be next

[desert jay]

Emp's Childen has been teased fairly heavily as coming in a year or two, so him getting a 40k model is kinda the expectation

[floral herald]

Since I'd be surprised if EC didn't come with him

And they're probably up next

[desert jay]

But SMH that EC didn't even get their own detachment in their "index"

[lofty warren]

do EC have a godly mini-champ

or just champ

like kharn, ahriman, typhus

i guess bile?

but anyways my crackpot theory is that the EC release is going to come with new plastic bikes

for CSM

and also doomrider

[pastel rampart]

I'd love a new Doomrider but that seems unlikely given how absent he's been since the original 3e 'dex.

[lofty warren]

current 40k team seem to be big fans of doing crowd pleasers riffing off of things that have become memes

few years back there was sly marbo

they added squats again

[floral herald]

Their version of that sort of guy is Lucius

[tepid stratus]

Lucius, and to a lesser degree Eidolon altho he's a bit... Out of it

There's also Xantine who's only been in novels so far

[lofty warren]

oh yeah lucius

i forgot about lucius

genuinely

which is funny because i suspect that would make him mad

[floral herald]

definitely

[desert jay]

Hmm, do all the loyalists have at least one?

[floral herald]

On account of not being immortal not in the same way

But yeah I think all the 1st founding chapters have a named fella or more

[desert jay]

Fair. Though Dante is old enough it should count

[tepid stratus]

They all have a chapter master or other high ranking special dude but not in the same in universe tier as a champion of the long war

[desert jay]

Oh wait Dante is only 1100 1600 years old? Huh

[tepid stratus]

Yeah, which is still crazy by space marine standards

But chaos blessings and living in the eye of terror on and off do a lot for ones longevity

A lot of CSM are genuinely 9000-10000 years old compared to the average space maring being maybe a century or two

[finite compass]

I thought Eidolon was dead

[floral herald]

The oldest loyalist is probbaly Bjorn

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah they've definitely been going for some deep cuts, I'm not betting on the Rider but I'm not ruling him out.

[tepid stratus]

Bile brought him back multiple times. Last we saw him he was alive, generously speaking

[thin ibex]

For some csm, wasn't the heresy like yesterday too

[finite compass]

Nope, apparently he got better

[floral herald]

It varies but yeah some haven't experienced much time

[thin ibex]

Cause timey wimey weirdness in the warp

[tepid stratus]

He's a few thousand years old I think? He was the youngest marine when Russ left

[desert jay]

Also so much shit happens in specifically 999.M41

[thin ibex]

Bjorn was in russ's personal guard

Only one that got told to stay

When russ went traipsing into the warp

[floral herald]

He was around for the Heresy aiui

Fought in the burning of prospero

[thin ibex]

I think Dante is champ for like continuous consciousness, but Bjorn is the oldest in terms absolute lifetime

[floral herald]

Yeah that's fair

[desert jay]

Bjorn was in the Great Crusade even

[finite compass]

Because wasn't the heresy only like...I wanna say seven years?

[tepid stratus]

Right, he was the newest wolf guard by the time Russ left, forgot just how much shit he'd been through before getting put in the dread

[floral herald]

I think it was 9 years? Not long yeah

[finite compass]

Which is kind of disappointing. Because before they spun it off into its own thing I was figuring from what we had, that it was basically "literally apocalyptic, dragged on for decadees"

[floral herald]

I kind of like the intensity and short time since it means it was a sort of "come as you are" fight

[pastel rampart]

Heresy was only a decade.

[desert jay]

Hey, it could be worse. The reluctance of the writers to kick the millennium over meant that all this presumably happens in an 8-hour period on New Years Eve

[solemn gull]

so fucking funny

[pastel rampart]

Great Crusade was roughly 222 years (~798.M30 — 005.M31) which makes a lot of it very funny because it took millenia for Emps to set this all up, a couple hundred years to try and finalize it, and absolutely biffs the landing because he couldn't take 5 fucking minutes each day to tend to his 18 belligerent football kids.

[lofty warren]

the man's hobby is being a bad dad

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, and everything is basically his fault.

[dense sedge]

Got my brood brothers, how hard is it to jury rig special weapons the bodies aren’t meant for?

[floral herald]

Brood Bros are cadian based right?

It seems like it should be easy

[paper bluff]

The galaxy is a big place

[thin ibex]

https://x.com/DiceyJune/status/1803155232429580426

Dicey June - comm open (@DiceyJune) on X

Twitter · Jun 18, 2024, 7:58 PM

[soft willow]

Tech heresy.

[lofty warren]

Boltpup

[floral herald]

I think the bolter may be one of the least reasonable weapons to bullpup

[thin ibex]

not just the bullpup but how small it is xD

need a sawn off bullpup bolter

bolter obrez

[soft willow]

Now you're just making ork weapons.

[floral herald]

Honestly kinda the storm bolter

[thin ibex]

youre not lying

youre out of line but you're not wrong

xD

[jaunty dawn]

theres an official bullpup bolter but its bad

its so bad

[floral herald]

Thankfully it was just a weird drawing

[jaunty dawn]

it was real

[floral herald]

This is me coping

[jaunty dawn]

oh fair

he used to look so elvish

and now hes just like. space manrine

i love his flag though its so funny

im glad they didnt change that

[soft willow]

40K needs more goofy flags.

[thin ibex]

is it still a competetive truism that because you can expect to face off with marines in any tournament, damage 2 weapons are a big grab

i wonder how store meta's play when marines arent a factor, like does that weight damage 1 stuff a bit more?

[soft willow]

Depends, is the local meta all knights or all hordes?

Like in my area people build to deal with knights/vehicle spam because so many folks around here have em.

[desert jay]

And more ancients carrying them

[thin ibex]

thats a solid point, and in those cases, maybe multi damage is still favored

if youre going to wound on a 5 or a six, you might as well do 2 damage on a success perhaps

though maybe also extra AP could value up on the smaller components?

i know at least for me, sometimes volume fire works as well as high firepower on heavy enemies xD

i remember a dread's storm bolters tearing off wounds of a nid monster with frightening and surprising efficiency; though you can't predict when the dice curse comes hard on your opponent

or yourself rolling hot lol

[past sphinx]

a bolter to based and french pilled to be constrained by laws

[runic swallow]

The FAMAS actually looks good tho

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/sefu_sneezed/status/1803048049767522717

[sweet solar]

I HAVE FINALLY WORKED OUT MT PROBLEM WITH VASHTORR

and its SUCH a mechanicus vector of hateed it pleades me

he isnt a tech deamon

and he isnt a tech heretic

hes just a machine themed regular deamon who like powerful weapons

all yhe shit asociated with him, the chaos tech, its just slapping deamons onto things to maie them work

he may as well be an ork

sure its cool stuff, well themed

but its not technology

its just magic

shakes mechadendrite fool of a magos you cant even do tech heresy right

[desert jay]

Hah. Tho I think cramming daemons into tech still works as a form of tech heresy. Daemons don't go in there, and yet you did!

Heretek who came up with it probably didn't trust machine spirits, had to find something more juiced

Though... now my brain's churning and I'm wondering if Vashtorr was once the daemon of a daemon engine and after it was destroyed (in battle or whatever) he decided he wanted more

[sweet solar]

see that would be better tech heresy
even of not makojg something new or soing research or ignoring your gun prayers, strip the machine spirit from a landraider and run it into a nightmare pile of flesh

hotlink an abominable intelligence from ome of those old horus heresy robots onto like 30 cultists as its new body

tho all this said he should also be votab

votan

as fanes are a votan thing and hes the arkifane

[past sphinx]

Vashtor wouldve been cooler as a dark mechanicum ascendant daemon prince

i am taking no notes

model wouldve been cooler to but im a big time simp for the Dark mech 40k characters

Vashtor is cool but he could be cooler

[paper bluff]

Oh yeah... the man crab guy. I'd bet that guy is responsible for defilers

Again for me..... how does vashtor know about the war in heaven

[thin ibex]

I mean, time is weird in the warp. Once the chaos gods existed, they when always existed

They then*

[bright dove]

The Eldar.

Necron Tomb World Raiding.

[floral herald]

I mean it was a huge galaxy spanning event, even if he wasn’t there for it it wouldn’t be weird to know about

And he was plausibly there for it

[bright dove]

Harlequins would 100% talk about it if nothing else.

The information is difficult to get, not impossible.

[thin ibex]

I just mean like vashtor is a daemon god. Time doesn't exist in the warp. When vashtor was born is completely irrelevant because the order of events in history only matters in the physical, not the warp

If that doesn't make sense, precisely. It's the warp

[bright dove]

It worked for Slaanesh and Bela'kor

[jaunty dawn]

I think a lot of the unaligned daemons are old

[solemn gull]

https://www.polygon.com/24173123/40k-dnd-actual-play-heretic-hunt-louise-sugden-peachy-interview

I’m glad they chose the best system for this /s

[storm schooner]

Their reasoning for doing so

No one ever wants to hear this about a show someones making. Never has a show being made to be "more commercial and consumable" in a way people like

[solemn gull]

I just feel sad more than anything

[storm schooner]

Yeah it's a bummer, a hiveworld is such a fun setting for a campaign. And the like idea of the show is that it'd be an actual play with a much smaller time buy in by cutting things down to 45 mins per episode.
But then they decided to run a setting full of guns which hates magic in a System made for Swords and Sorcery

[valid brook]

What a bleak indictment of actual plays as a medium

[jaunty dawn]

two whole paragraphs about death saves

[jaunty dawn]

fwiw I feel like this is unusually honest and could basically just be the whole answer

[south axle]

I understand the thought of using something everyone knows, but then it will only be what they know. Also not mentioning the old Dark Heresy games nor Imperial Maledictum

[jaunty dawn]

few ppl are willing to be like "we want this to be a commercially successful endeavour and dnd is the best way to do it"

...because it sounds cynical as hell and doesnt build hype for your show, but yknow..

[solemn gull]

Now if they said they were using pathfinder that would of made it amazing

[jaunty dawn]

honestly will be interesting to see if theyre even actually right or if they're chasing data thats like 5 years old

I was disappointed that tabletop tactics went ahead with dnd after ogl stuff but at least theyre actually playing dnd

[solemn gull]

Considering I learned about it from a niche shitposting sub I doubt it’s going to be the next dimension 20 or critical role like they referred to

[jaunty dawn]

forreal

tree man :)

[solemn gull]

Nice work

[jaunty dawn]

ty!

[snow otter]

Very nice

[paper bluff]

Welp, I bought a used imperial knight kit and it seems that the previous owner just needed the gun arm upper joint. So that was fun to discover while building

I'd argue time is different in the warp and the warp in the war in heaven 2as very very different

Funny if Vashtor came from a seed of the necrotyr

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/Focus_entmt/status/1803355154189586783?t=AFhovxzDBFEwQBFqYpEw6A&s=19

Focus Entertainment (@Focus_entmt) on X

Mark your calendars! 🗓

The #SpaceMarine2 Gameplay Overview Trailer is dropping on our YouTube channel on June 20th, 9AM PDT / 6PM CEST.

This 6-minutes presentation will tackle all you need to know about the Campaign, PvP and PvE game modes!

📍https://t.co/bhnFDlTASw

Twitter · Jun 19, 2024, 9:12 AM

[pine matrix]

Beautiful!

[jaunty dawn]

Thank you!!!

[thin ibex]

i forget, recent ttrpg book also posits that the 4 gods are not the whole of the warp and there are warp sections even they dont fuck with?

[thin ibex]

I appreciate the effort you put into backdropping them with greenery

[jaunty dawn]

thanks it triggered my hayfever but it was worth

sun was nice too :)

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1253047064170987610/IMG_9575.png?ex=66746e84&is=66731d04&hm=c860e9e691235c36e071ceb1cb11dbb51357275c3939017a000f1151a80e7985&

[jovial berry]

Bro is dead as hell

[past sphinx]

Decal-nojutsu is mine!

[thin ibex]

Looking awesome dude

https://vxtwitter.com/Sughammer/status/1803493094853062885

[thin ibex]

What's a votann list theme that would break from tradition with so few unit types...

[unreal cosmos]

max mobility?

[soft willow]

Maximum Warriors

Show me your Grymnir.

[thin ibex]

Fully mechanized gives me "they got business to attend to"

[thin ibex]

https://pastebin.com/3yUPHwV1

Didn't fit into a screenshot

I envision getting to the mid board by turn 3

It's only a shame that nothing they have hits further than 24"

Though I guess they're one of the few ranged infantry units in the game with a gun higher than str 9

Also though, tac marines can bring a lascannon with oodles of range

[soft willow]

Judgement token tax.

[floral herald]

I don’t really understand the aversion to giving LoV long ranged guns

[soft willow]

Overreaction to the 9th ed codex launch.

They had the idea of a mid-range army with some reach, and then they made all of it shorter in the move to 10th.

[desert jay]

IIRC the longer-ranged guns of LoV in 9th were some of the strongest, so there was also player backlash

[jaunty dawn]

dataslate

cp abilities changed from the battle tactic thing to just -1 cp unless affecting a specific stratagem

all 'lone op' strats changed to 18", damn

and all unit replacement strats are once per battle

admech have an entire page of changes

haha one of cawl's abilities can make him battleline that's cute

ironstriders drop twin linked for double attacks

all onager weapons got buffs, the twin phosphor blaster tripled its attacks without even losing twin linked, wow

imp guard detachment rule changed from stationary to based on target type vs regiment/squadron, kinda interesting