Warhammer and Such

[jaunty dawn]

4th was just like

no named characters

I forgot

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

[jaunty dawn]

but ironically that was like

[pastel rampart]

Lots of people were annoyed about that but like, bro you could field 6 carnifexes in that edition.

[jaunty dawn]

meant 'old one eye' can actually be taken in games smaller than 1500 points haha

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, hah

[jaunty dawn]

now that I think about it

I think when the 5th codex came out the named characters weirded me out

I knew about the 3e ones

the doom of malantai also basically had the same gimmick as a tyranid unit I made haha

albeit mine was like toughness X and much more silly

and was also what I imagined capillary towers should do? haha

[jaunty dawn]

cause the 4e codex was basically my introduction to the entire universe in detail I mean

and it made tyranids work a lot differently than other factions

like morale worked different, psychic powers were almost completely different (you didn't roll for most of them! such was the might of hive mind!) no named character section, etc

[thin ibex]

hmm, which faction should i build horde smasher lists for today

[soft willow]

Imperial Knights.

[upper canopy]

Tau

[thin ibex]

First go at it, figure there's gonna be no way to avoid getting into melee so having everything but 1 being a sweep profile to the table is good.

Was conflicted cause I wondered if the acheron would be better, but the castigator looks cooler with the sword

[thin ibex]

Alas until tau points are out and detachments added to newreruit I'm quite reluctant

[brittle salmon]

Wahapedia has you covered

[thin ibex]

It's so much slowwwerrr (I am a wee babe of no willpower)

It's harder to casual make the lists when you gotta navigate between multiple pages and have a calculator out

[past sphinx]

God knew I was nearly done painting custodes so he came down from heaven himself to try to kill me with his bare hands

He missed

Now I'm gonna be very shorthanded on painting the rest of this before crusade

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this 1k thousand sons list?

985/1000 points
Exalted Sorcerer, warpflame pistol, prosperine khopesh, warlord
Infernal master, arcane vortex
Thousand sons Sorcerer, warpflame pistol
Tzaangor Shaman

3x5 rubric Marines, bolters, soulreaper cannons, icon of flames
2x5 rubrics Marines, warpflamers

6x tzaangor Enlightened, greatbows

11 cabal points

It's lacking in anti-tank but figured this would get me some decent board presence as well as cabal points.

[rocky shale]

If you drop the shaman can you afford a rhino to move the flamer marines around?

Unfortunately Tsons cabal points are only balanced around 2k lists so you can only manage so much

I would try to shoot for 9 cabal points just to be able to twist of fate to make up for rough anti-tank capability but more than that you make a lot of sacrifices

[spice flicker]

I can fit the rhink

And still be at 10 cabal points

[rocky shale]

idk if the points work but if you maybe dropped the infernal master, could you do like ahriman +10 flamers in a rhino?

[spice flicker]

If I got rid of the rhino and Tzaangors I can trade them for a predator and have some points to spare.

I could do the ahriman idea if I cut the infernal master and half the Tzaangors while leaving me with 10 cabal points.

[rocky shale]

Hmmm you could do this for 995pts
Ahriman (3 cp)
Exalted Sorc (2cp)
3x5 rubrics with src and icons (3cp)
1x10 rubrics with flamers (1 cp)
1 rhino
1 mutalith vortex beast

The MVB is your other anti-tank choice besides the predator

[spice flicker]

Hmmm....

AP-3 heavy bolters might be nice but so is the MVB

[rocky shale]

You'd probably take triple lascannons on the predator IMO

The MVB has 3 fire modes which is awesome

The rhino isnt 100% required but it really helps get ahriman and the flamers in range of something that needs to dissapear

[spice flicker]

Is ahriman worth taking in a crusade force?

[rocky shale]

Oh if its crusade I could see avoiding him if you want it to just be "your dudes"

And to use crusade stuff

Ahriman's main appeal is +1 to wound with all your flamers

And 3 cabal points

[spice flicker]

Oh I know

Though ahriman is among my top 3 favorite modern 40k characters

He just doesn't get much of the benefits from crusade

[rocky shale]

The exalted sorcs are a decent swap but at that point i'd just drop the flamer squad

[spice flicker]

Hmm....

[rocky shale]

Okay what if uhhhh
2x exalted sorcs (1 with athenaen scrolls) (5cp)
4x5 rubrics with src and icons (4cp)
1x MVB
1x Forgefiend with triple ectoplasm cannon
1x3 tzaangor enlightened

[spice flicker]

Oh triple ecto?

[rocky shale]

3d3 S10 -3 3 dam with 3x blast is a solid profile

Wounds terminators on 2s, forces a 5+ save, kills them in 1 shot

Then the Mvb has that single-shot d6+6 for big stuff, a d6+3 blast profile that does 2 damage for killing MEQ, and a torrent profile

Leave the tzaangor sitting at home with bows to hold the point and run around with your rubrics killing anything thats not a vehicle

[spice flicker]

Would it be better to go with cultists rather than Tzaangors?

[rocky shale]

YOu have the points for it, but I think the 30" precision bows have a better chance of impacting the game

[spice flicker]

Take out the MVB+tzaangors+scrolls and could take a 2nd forgefiend as well as 5th rubric squad

[rocky shale]

If you arent worried about heavy tanks and you like forgefiends, that could work

[spice flicker]

The cultist idea was to screen/hold home objective....plus the models I found on tts seems neat.

[rocky shale]

I love the MVB personally because its tough and has a very versatile profile

[spice flicker]

True

[rocky shale]

The tzaangors would also be sitting on home objective

MVB does have a 4+ 5++ 5+++ which makes it pretty tough to kill

Your main risk otherwise is just T11+ models which your ectos only wound on 5s

[spice flicker]

What about the umbral crystal?

[rocky shale]

Thats the one that lets you jump into reserves, right?

[spice flicker]

And pretty much deep strike wherever

[rocky shale]

IIRC its really good on a huge brick of terminators but Ive never heard of it being used anywhere else

[spice flicker]

Though the scrolls give an extra cabal point so that'd be good

[rocky shale]

scrolls are better because you're starved for points at 1k

Your other anti-tank option as tsons is comboing Malevolent Charge + ensorcelled infusion + twist of fate on a huge brick of (preferabbly terminators, but rubrics can do ok) to get a bunch of lethal hits, S5 attacks that bypass armor saves

[spice flicker]

Think I'll go with this for now.

[rocky shale]

Its crusade so im sure itll work well enough

tsons at 1k points is always a struggle for cabal points

[spice flicker]

Yeah and I'll work on expanding it to 1.5k and 2k

[rocky shale]

At 1.5k I'd consider the 10x SoTs + terminator sorc

its just a silly amount of firepower

[spice flicker]

I mean it'd be enough points

Could also do 2nd MVB+Sorcerer+Infernal+2x5 rubrics

Would have to remove the Tzaangors but can put the Sorcerer+rubrics on the home objective instead

[spice flicker]

How's this for 2k?

2000/2000 points
18-19 cabal points

Exalted sorcer, Athenian scrolls, warlord
2x Exalted Sorcerer
Exalted Sorcerer on disc, umbralefic crystal
Infernal master, arcane vortex
1x Thousand sons Sorcerer
Tzaangor Shaman

6x5 rubric Marines, bolters, src, icon
1x3 Tzaangors enlightened, greatbows

2x mvb
2x forgefiends, triple ecto

[rocky shale]

not bad, not sure what purpose the shaman serves tho

[spice flicker]

Had 105 points left and figured after removing the Tzaangors if I bring them back in I'd be left with 60 points which is enough for the shaman which gives an extra cabal point and boosts enlighteneds' greatbows.

[peak olive]

Yoooo

Another TS player?

[thin ibex]

The nid one feels weird

[final tide]

sometimes u just gotta make an o&g list

[spice flicker]

New tau points dropped

Or rather a lot of stuff went up i should say

[brittle salmon]

Where can we find them?

[spice flicker]

The app

What affects my lists is that broadsides went up quite a bit and riptides are now 180

Breachers and Devilfish went up by 10 and 15 I think (or 10 and 10 I can't remember)

[brittle salmon]

riptides are 180??

thats insane

they were 245

[spice flicker]

They were 165 before this

[brittle salmon]

Wahapedia says 245

Might be pulling from the Codex directly

[spice flicker]

Yep

Might switch to a Hammerhead instead of a pair of broadsides

130 points for Hammerhead

[brittle salmon]

How much are Broadsides now?

[spice flicker]

110 a piece

Was 90

[brittle salmon]

honestly, probably fair

its a chunky boy

[mental birch]

110 too much

Too slow

Just buy a hammerhead at that point

[spice flicker]

Yeah and the Hammerhead has more wounds and Toughness no?

With skyray at 140 I guess we're back to how tau were in 9th once they got their codex: Hammerhead for every list if not multiple

[mental birch]

Hammerheaaad

[spice flicker]

Breacher fish are now 235 apiece if you include a Cadre fireblade

I guess they decided to go ahead and do preemptive monkta nerfs/balances with what they figured would be commonly used.

[mental birch]

Rip monkta nerf

[thin ibex]

What was the old text? Or why is it a nerf?

[spice flicker]

I think previously it was the other way around

[jaunty dawn]

flipped which rule is from guided and which rule isnt

but the upside is

now the assault rule actually functions so,,

or functions on units that dont already have an assault weapon that is

[desert jay]

Flyers got nerfed? What happened, did someone almost take them in a list?

[jaunty dawn]

sunforge is just fixing stuff so the ability actually works properly too

[spice flicker]

Tetras were legend'd

[spice flicker]

I mean I brainstormed some valkyries in a tempestus Scions list but I didn't expect the butterfly effect to hit tau sorry.

[thin ibex]

I'm not surprised that tetras got legend. They had the issue of being completely mandatory

For high level play

[spice flicker]

Thank goodness stealth suits didn't get hit

[thin ibex]

Which I was not a huge fan of

[jaunty dawn]

that couldve been fixed with the stealth suit buffs and points though

[spice flicker]

Now I just need battlescribe to update so I can adjust my current tau lists

[jaunty dawn]

are the other tau fw pieces still around

oh nope

no ytide

just the siege suit

i have a tau codex code n everything but no device to use the warhammer app on 😅

(ipad is dead and I use an ultra low power phone)

[spice flicker]

Funny enough I have the pariah nexus book but the code is useless since I can't reference it with the app

[jaunty dawn]

omg

[desert jay]

Also gosh when did the Tau codex drop? (I mean into customers hands not the leaks)

[jaunty dawn]

originally

like

a month ago

in the kroot box

I think street date is saturday

or last saturday maybe

[spice flicker]

Neat

[thin ibex]

ah yvara and rvarna have finally died for good?

a shame

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[spice flicker]

Hmmm with the new tau points I wonder how I should change this list?
1000/1000 (pre-update)

Etheral
Cadre fireblade

2x10 strike teams
2x6 Stealth suits
2x broadsides, heavy rail rifles
2x riptides, ion accelerator

I'm thinking of swapping the broadsides for a Hammerhead but what else?

[thin ibex]

;so a broadside and a hammerhead are the same cost now?

and b side still has the same special rule regarding mw?

[spice flicker]

Rules haven't changed I think but a single broadside is 110 while a single Hammerhead is still 130.

[thin ibex]

hmm, so you'd get yourself 90 points of float

if you replaced 2 bsides with 1 hammer head

honestly, in a 1k points game, 2 bsides nets you 4 rail shots

while the hammer head is 1

i think 4 is a bit more reliable against heavy targets

i dont know the points, but personally i do like the idea of a pathfinder team even though they're hella fragile

i just tend to think that spotting for 2 at low points scale is a nice bang for buck

but stealth teams have better single partner spotting

[spice flicker]

Did the math and this is the current points total
1120/1000 (pre-update)

Etheral (50)
Cadre fireblade (50)

2x10 strike teams (80 each)
2x6 Stealth suits (120 each)
2x broadsides, heavy rail rifles (110 each)
2x riptides, ion accelerator (180 each)

[thin ibex]

if you did swap 2 bsides for a hammerhead, and dropped a riptide, you'd probably have something like 200 points free, which could get youa crisis team of your preferred flavor

[spice flicker]

Not a fan of the crisis suits

[thin ibex]

ah gotcha

200 points gets you pretty much any one team as you like

[spice flicker]

I know

[thin ibex]

what can 90 points buy you if you swapped to teh hammerhead

[spice flicker]

Pathfinders? 3rd strike team?

[thin ibex]

hmm, so you'd trade overall firepower for potentially more map control

how much is a devilfish?

oh also what detach would you be running in?

[spice flicker]

Well I presume either monkta or kauyon depending on if I decide to focus on board presence or early aggression more.

Also the cadre breacher fish combo is 235 points

[thin ibex]

breacherfish with no cadre is still worthy, and i was thinking of just having a devilfish for one of your strike teams

to get OC on top of a midboard objective

and then using the devilfish as a blocker to potentially buy you a turn of scoring

[spice flicker]

Hmm...

Fish are 85 now

If I got rid of a stealth suit squad I think that'll get me within 1k

Still have all the broadsides and riptides, just with less stealth suits support until later.

[floral herald]

Tf devilfish are barely more expensive than rhinos now?

[spice flicker]

Breachers are 100 a squad now

[rocky shale]

235 for a cadre breacher fish

My nightmares are real

[spice flicker]

Ion or rail rifles for pathfinders?

[thin ibex]

depends, i think rail rifles are more fun and give you anti elite punch

but 3 ion rifles outputs a lot of firepower

into light and medium targets

so if you are motly going to shoot infantry, id take the ions for volume fire

also plays nice with kauyon to double down on output

but rail rifles are cooler

[spice flicker]

Maybe eventually have one squad with ion trio and one with rail trio but which first?

[thin ibex]

ion is gonna the most general purpose, but if you feel you have enough general purpose the rail rifles hit hard

[spice flicker]

Alright so if I end up with pathfinder in the 1k list I think I'll go with the ion

Also if my math is right I can just remove one six man stealth squad and everything else should be fine no? Worth trading out the infiltrating spotters for more firepower by keeping the double broadsides?

[thin ibex]

Big depends there. I don't know how resilient stealth suits are these days, but they do represent forward elements that control objectives. Firepower is generally good for tau because they're good at choice elimination, but the scale balance is always "how do I score" vs "how do I attack my opponent most effectively"

So a lot of that boils down to how you plan to play

[spice flicker]

Problem is that the broadsides are probably my most reliable anti-tank as otherwise the biggest guns are the ion accelerators

[thin ibex]

absolutely, and the question also becomes "how much T10+ do you expect the enemy to field at 1k"

[spice flicker]

I know one friend is considering going with the kult of speed orks or thousand sons.

I am 120 over so if I got rid of the broadsides that'd let me keep thr 2x6 Stealth suits and have 100 points for something like fishless breachers or pathfinders. It'd let me have more bodies on the board and more potential starting spotters but not enough real units to be guided I feel.

[thin ibex]

ultimately i think the balance between the two is gonna come down to testing and feeling it out with your personal playstyle

[south axle]

Kroot got cheaper <3

[spice flicker]

This is compared to codex

[floral herald]

What is with 10e codexes releasing with super high points and then being reduced?

[spice flicker]

Most codexes are written early on and they don't want to reprint/edit the code codexes to reflect current points since that'll take longer to get out thus longer to make money off of.

[floral herald]

I figure its that or being very conservative so that you don't get a sudden meta shift from a faction which only exists on paper

Without online stuff

[thin ibex]

i could also see it as a "everything expensive while the player base shakes out what is gonna be a doozy and proofreads the rules wording, then we use feedback to bring it all down"

not surprised to see sunforge as expensive as they are

[spice flicker]

They're the melta suits right?

[final tide]

vvvvvvvvvv old orcs are cute oh no I have a bunch of goblins and black orcs around here somewhere

[jaunty dawn]

the codexes are always just a copy/paste from the first mfm iirc

they have like. no correlation whatsoever with actual intentional points

and yeah like kroot carnivores have gone up 20 per 10 but they got buffed so

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/OathswornMinis/status/1787914840859619505

[south axle]

Did Rampagers, Lone Spears and the new Shapers get points before the codex?

[jaunty dawn]

just in the codex and this new mfm yeah

[south axle]

So cheaper Kroot. Who cares about old units

[jaunty dawn]

I guess

[floral herald]

Oh is that it?

[jaunty dawn]

ye

which most armies have seen huge reductions from

[desert jay]

It would be wild if they just did a huge pass and adjusted all the points upwards so that the average is closer to original point costs

Hit absolutely everything

[spice flicker]

How are we feeling about the stormsurge?

[jaunty dawn]

falin is right about this one

[pine matrix]

The Great Devourer (Tyranids) Vs The Great Devourer (Laios)

[spice flicker]

You could probably cook the rippers like their gargantuan shrimp and be fine.... make sure its well done to kill all the microorganisms first so they don't eat you from the inside in turn.

[untold swallow]

Several guard regiments have probably done that

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYwcZy0AdE

[solemn gull]

Ork is probably pretty good

[thin ibex]

You know Catachan has eaten nid

i wonder if the guard dex will have a detachment that encourages bringing "its only leman russes" lists

[floral herald]

Probably

Armored Regiment has been a play fantasy for a long ass time

[thin ibex]

i mean technically you can just do it now

and its prolly casually pretty effective

since all that armor is strong threat overload

just loses to someone who's playing the map and objectives well

this feels like a cool list but not one id bring to a crusade

because itd like

skew the unit selections for everyone else

[spice flicker]

I'd replace the executioners with exterminators due to the additional AP they give everything else against targets they've shot.

[thin ibex]

thats valid, i liked the idea of using executioners to, well, execute, effectively doubling down on targets not wiped out by another vehicle

good for sealing the deal on like, a nearly dead tank or infantry unit that was weakened by something else

[brittle salmon]

Has anyone checked out Kill Rigs from the Ork codex yet? I'm not sure they actually changed from the Index but they seem incredibly good

The Wurrtower being a -1 damage 24 inch D3 torrent lascannon just seems so juiced

[floral herald]

torrent lascannon damn

[brittle salmon]

Yeah it just autohits??

It is Hazardous but like

This is a vehicle with 16 wounds and a 6+ FnP

[upper bluff]

Yeah when you say it like that...

Idk I just don't like beast snaggas

[brittle salmon]

I mean fair enough call

[upper bluff]

I like the junkyard Orks more than the shark riding ones

[floral herald]

I think it'd be easy enough to convert a battlewagon if you want the stats and not the weird giant pig chariot

[upper bluff]

Yeah but it's also a transport for beast snaggas. Maybe one day if I get motivated to make a whole army of junkyard beast snaggas

[uneven ember]

Yeah, nothing wrong with the snaggas or anything but I prefer the scrap heap ork thing too.
Squigs are fun and all but I feel like the army of inexplicably high-tech junkers is both funnier and more distinctly "space ork"

[pastel rampart]

Robo-squigs.

Look like something Robotnik would make.

[upper bluff]

The little egg pod thing with big squigg teeth would be so good

[brittle salmon]

today in warhammer: diorkgenez and his mek krew vs the scuttling tyranid horde

(some beast snaggas heard about the 'nids and tagged along. diorkgenez does not condone this behaviour)

[jaunty dawn]

enjoy!

[brittle salmon]

will do, im excited to try Dread Mob

[uneven ember]

yoooooo

[upper canopy]

Orkenheimer needs to fucking kill Diorkgenez

[brittle salmon]

come say dat to me morkanaught's face, ya git

[floral herald]

What are the models in the front?

[jaunty dawn]

bubblechukaz

(mek gunz)

[brittle salmon]

the funny random profile guns

[floral herald]

Ah ok

I didn't recognize the profile from that angle

[brittle salmon]

The codex changed it so they do find out their profile pre-target selection, at least

[thin ibex]

Oh I love that army

Let us know how it goes

Is that a gork or morkanaut?

[brittle salmon]

Morkanaut!

Dread Mob has some really nice shooty CPs

[jaunty dawn]

is a that a squad of like

ork doctors

with bone saws

[brittle salmon]

lmao

They're gretchin but the Workshop mod I found had no grot models except some meme ones

[jaunty dawn]

ohhhh

[brittle salmon]

Great photoscans of everything else, though

[jaunty dawn]

lmao

[brittle salmon]

They're some pretty well done TF2 class parodies so I don't mind

under da sea

[floral herald]

That's a fun looking map

Are you playing it now?

[brittle salmon]

Yup!

just started the first round

[floral herald]

nice

[brittle salmon]

I blew up my friend's Carnifex with gretchin landmines

:')

[floral herald]

Haha

[thin ibex]

thats a good dice tell stories moment

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1237964707906715698/GNGOVvDbsAAX1f3.jpg?ex=663d8ffa&is=663c3e7a&hm=9416186424eef142befacaee0aaf3c7c2990531a2339a7cdfd6cbd505a375b2f&

[uneven ember]

I mean you're gonna get the same thing from the regular Astartes, right?

[thin ibex]

Honestly I kinda thought they didn't use paint

Like they just use body fluids of various types

And whatever paint was there when they found it

Or like, stand in a fire till their armor is black

[desert jay]

looks at the bright blue and gold of TSons

No some CSM are definitely extra enough to paint everything bright colors with fancy trim

CSM actually have a lot of trim overall, more than LSM

[runic swallow]

The Iron Warriors have simplified supply lines by only using paint that serves duel use as industrial paint

[thin ibex]

Can't they just use magic to make their armor colors?

Like change-flame armor into whatever color they want?

[storm schooner]

magic is for blowing up peoples minds

Using chaos trickery to paint armour sounds incredibly dangerous

[lofty warren]

Csm trim is why they are so snazzy

Gothic doesnt come naturally

Takes effort

[brittle salmon]

Game trip report: got some decent shooting round 1 but the map layout and deployment type really didn't favour my Mek Guns, round 2 I'm primed to pop Waagh and get some really good charges, particularly with my Kill Rig, but my Morkanaut is in real strife at 2 wounds left after some very lucky Norn Emissary lethals, and my Mek Guns are in bad spots too

Gonna come back another day, round 1 took a few hours for various reasons lol

I immediately think Mek-led Lootaz are just a better fit for Dread Mob on most maps than Mek Gunz

Mek Guns have hella firepower but you can LoS them so fuckin easily

[desert jay]

Yeah it's shaped like a big slow artillery piece but it's also inconvienently direct-fire

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, and 40k maps have gotten a lot more terrain dense over the years!

Probably best to leave them at home

As funny as Bubblechuckas may be

[peak olive]

I wanna know who made the format

Like genuinely it goes so hard

[mental birch]

https://pastebin.com/Q9RAR6Sn

Behold I have built a meme

[jaunty dawn]

jump lord can only join raptors

it would seem

and looks like accursed cultists are getting entirely revamped

confirmation of gun cultists being nixed

think the main problem with it is like

heavy stubber cultist is pretty iconic

but not something traitor guard can provide

[upper bluff]

This really bothers me

Like why would you do that, the chaos lord can be built with claws?!?!!

Also so many changes to units mean there is hop for Vashtorr. Come on GW hes supposed to be so scary please make him better than a vanilla demon prince

I don't want him to be a primarch with 3 different effects to choose from, I just want him to be cool

[jaunty dawn]

guess its like how a regular lord can't join possessed

[upper bluff]

Yeah but aren't the warp talon claws just lightning claws? They're not possessed. Anyways I guess it makes sense when you say it like that

[jaunty dawn]

they are daemonkin

idk if that's always been their lore but its gotten more emphasised

[upper bluff]

Alright

[jaunty dawn]

oblits, possessed and warp talons

[upper bluff]

Fair enough

Obliterators are cool

Demon gun disease

[thin ibex]

honestly rather than getting rid of gun cultists, i would have preferred short range gun cultists

bunch of like... 18" assault weapons at str 3

but then i guess that makes em weirdly fast

for a non enhanced person

[junior robin]

Hope this mean that traitor guardsmen now are battleline at least...

[jaunty dawn]

raptors are regular guys with a weird cult in jump packs, warp talons are like scary gone too deep, teleporting through the warp, unable to speak ppl

the models for both just suck so they look like chaos van vets

[thin ibex]

im guessing gun cultists are nixed cause they're pretty efficient backliners that can also be a hard to efficiently kill blob

[jaunty dawn]

more to do with discontinuing their kit

[thin ibex]

ahh ok

[jaunty dawn]

that didn't even get you a full squad cause it wasn't designed to be a 40k squad

[thin ibex]

could be their nixing hte old and planning to bring a new yeah?

[jaunty dawn]

plus they figure that traitor guard take the ranged role I imagine

they updated cultists not that long ago, they just decided to go pistol/ccw monopose for some reason

it's a mess

[floral herald]

Functionally the new one is blooded KT

[jaunty dawn]

I would like it if mop could hang with warp talons too

dude's already flying

[thin ibex]

warp talons are pretty cool, i used to think they were way worse than the normal raptors, but then realized how much twin linked pushes their output

are possessed still considered decent melee specialists?

[jaunty dawn]

damage 2 is cool

idk if they're in vogue though

[thin ibex]

i figured they werent because of like synergies, leaders, and larger metatrategies

but wasn't sure if on their own merit they make solid melee specialists

[jaunty dawn]

mainly seeing chosen and warp talons

[thin ibex]

they seem broadly analogous to like... bladeguard, but with a worse save

[jaunty dawn]

and a lot of chaos bikers??

[thin ibex]

and yeah, the possessed are fast and get t6, but warp talons can ds and twin linked

[jaunty dawn]

I remember having fun with them though

[thin ibex]

warp talons are also a flipped profile, d1 but ap 2 while possessed get ap 1 but d2

[jaunty dawn]

even running them as tzeentch cause I like the flavour of being able to revive them even though that obv lowers their output

[thin ibex]

feels like possessed will do you right loaded up in a land raider

[jaunty dawn]

possessed get devestating though

[thin ibex]

tear up other elite and meq melee

yeah i think warptalons get picked for their other utilities and the posessed are overall better melee, but it behooves comp csm players to not bring the solely better melee unit, maybe

like 12" move, fly, ds

are super useful

honestly i keep having to think about how like

anti fly is weirdly relevant in a lot of match ups

[jaunty dawn]

probably a points thing as well

[thin ibex]

oo yeah, posessed are more spensive

[jaunty dawn]

quite a lot more

[thin ibex]

i feel inclined to make posessed centered lists now

which also makes me want to make daemonkin lists

[floral herald]

Chaos bikers are well liked

It’s a shame the models sort of clash with the modern aesthetic

[thin ibex]

i hope if they update bikers, they go in a more oldschool chopper vibe over the outrider's judge dredd vibe

[jaunty dawn]

idk I think the classic marine bike is lawmaster too just like

[thin ibex]

i also hope they look like they could drive on something other than a flat road

[jaunty dawn]

more oldschool lawmaster

[thin ibex]

oh yeah that's true

i just like the idea that the primaris are like... future chunky vibes

and the chaos bikers are, well, not

or not as much

[jaunty dawn]

if they get a new kit I hope they like

get combi weapons as a physical option

it's a neat chaos thing

[thin ibex]

sm only get like... sternguard right? with combi?

not counting space wolves

and a few characters

[jaunty dawn]

blemplars get them

some places

this is really funny this edition

'you get one of these guns, but they function completely differently depending on if it's in hand or part of the bike'

[thin ibex]

whats the current biker special rule btw?

[jaunty dawn]

they go back into reserves!

[thin ibex]

hmm, interesting

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/09/warcry-metawatch-gnegotiating-the-gnarlwood-with-gnew-rules/

warcry metawatch

willdd

oh its just errata really

oh actually damn

this is a pretty big buff

oh and point changes

so weird that this is basically a dataslate but formatted as an errata doc

lmao

[desert jay]

GW realizing no one is buying the sick flyer models they made

[floral herald]

It's such a cool model GW plz let it out of flyer jail

It's not a fucked up super transport or anything just a funny chicken

[rocky shale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1085667218584506599/1238154036042141787/10jqhsnr1fzc1.png?ex=663e404d&is=663ceecd&hm=3ed88ddb07277dcff75c3ea850d635c19b9552609feb2a335209223aee293aa6&

Daemon engines are back on the menu

[floral herald]

That's a really nice one for daemon engines yeah

[rocky shale]

2 extra attacks for maulerfiends yes please

And throwing a land raider through a building is cool

[junior robin]

that feel when all your chaos vehicles are either hellbrutes or DE moved to legends :

[floral herald]

Forgefiend feels like a big winner

Already shoots S10 AP-3 D3 blasts

[rocky shale]

S10 +1 to wound just kinda wounds everything on 2s

[floral herald]

yeah and it can mount 3

[rocky shale]

Yeah

Definitely slightly more melee focused for these but everyone gets to have fun.

[floral herald]

Venomcrawer also likes the extra attacks

[rocky shale]

I just hope vashtorr is playable

[floral herald]

Yeah I'm curious how he lands rules wise

He was... disappointingly shrimpy in 9e

[zinc field]

What is daemonic possession supposed to do? Just adding the daemon keyword doesn’t seem that useful

Feel like I’m missing something

[floral herald]

Lets other vehicles use the detachment rule

[zinc field]

Ah

[floral herald]

I think its a little questionable but its an epic deed so you can make it free iirc

[rocky shale]

Can't have 6 good strats

[zinc field]

Could use it to pump a Helbrute up to 7 hammer attacks

Or 7 twin-linked fists with +1 to wound

[junior robin]

omg daemonic possession is back?!

[desert jay]

Also lets vehicles buy in to half of the other strats

Vashtorr or others might have buffs for daemon vehicles too

[spice flicker]

Time to shake the dust off the old lord discordant I guess.

[desert jay]

Okay Index Vashtorr does have a daemon vehicle specific buff, it's a +1 strength aura

[junior robin]

sadly the lord is completely gone now

[plucky token]

it's only battle tactics that you can make free atm, as far as i know

that detachment is looking pretty cool, though

[floral herald]

Ah that sounds right

Also hard to say if CP gain will get messed with in the codex

[mental birch]

+1 to wound on shooting

Hook boyyyy

That's spicy

[desert jay]

"... on Helstalker" is still around

[spice flicker]

That's what I meant, just too much of a mouthful to say the full name.

[desert jay]

Though in Index he's Daemon and Mounted, not vehicle, and just has anti-vehicle stuff and no buffs for your own guys

Maybe that improves in codex, maybe not

[rocky shale]

Such a cool model for doing so little

[floral herald]

I don't think the discolord has ever been much of a buff character

[desert jay]

His fluff implies it!

[spice flicker]

He was scary back in early 9th no?

[floral herald]

Most of 9e

Just a really strong melee beatstick

[rocky shale]

He does kinda buff heretic astartes by giving them +1 to wound a specific vehicle

[desert jay]

In 9e he could choose between debuffing enemy vehicles or buffing friendly vehicles

In 8e... if he killed a vehicle in melee he could either repair a daemon engine or shoot energy beams

And in both 8e and 9e he has vehicle and daemon engine keywords

So the old Lord Discordant would go good in this detachment, but not the 10e index version

[mental birch]

Isn't he still scary whack

Lord

[junior robin]

whops, I mixed it up with the FW guy....

[jaunty dawn]

this is fun

oh haha theres a soulgrinder

in the art

csm continues to be the home of actually interesting design in 10e I guess

[desert jay]

Yeah Hellwright is a HH model that briefly got 40k IA rules

[junior robin]

I made one for my night lords but not sure if it would look good on a bigger base as a discordant

[pulsar cairn]

i love this

[desert jay]

He's making that face not because of what the marine said, but because of the discomfort of being hugged by a guy covered in pointy spikes

[pulsar cairn]

[past sphinx]

CSM gotta have like

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... how best to make a 1k crusher stampede list?

[desert jay]

AIUI, you take the monsters you would put in a crusher stampede and you run it as invasion fleet

(Per Nid players I've listened to)

[spice flicker]

I see

[thin ibex]

personally, i think you want to threat overload with monsters that are unlikely to die in one salvo, that way you outnumber their AT output AND get hurt but not killed

which increases your overall output

[spice flicker]

Which monsters best fit that criteria?

[thin ibex]

Carnifexes are honestly not awful for it imo, but haruspexes are hella good as far as monsters go

The norn assimilator can be strong as well

Here's one I just kinda threw together

[jaunty dawn]

carnifexes suffer because they're multi model units

even when you stick ooe with them you have to lose both his friends before you get the full bonus

unfortunatelyy

[rocky shale]

Yeah carnifexes are uniquely bad in crusher stampede

[final tide]

I have to paint a banner again oh no

[unreal cosmos]

Bear pride flag color shifted to green

[final tide]

i was gonna put a growly face on it

[unreal cosmos]

Also very good

[thin ibex]

Ah so better off bringing 3 individual fexes or swapping for something else?

i know they're not well liked

but i kinda like the screamer killers

loads of attacks

[spice flicker]

I'd find room for a Technomancer+6 wraiths

[thin ibex]

Oh true forgot about them

[uneven ember]

I mean it is an ork banner you don't have to try very hard if you don't want to?

[plucky token]

if anything, it’s in character to do so

[brittle salmon]

Ork detachments are out on Wahapedia

There's some real spice here

I think Dread Mob is at least on the cusp of being competitive, Green Tide is very nasty

Although the stratagems only target boyz, so maybe too limiting in practice

Speed Freeks has some really good stratagems but I'm not sure if the unit pool is good enough to really take it places

[thin ibex]

I think dread mob is there tbh, just depends on map really

Green Tide is i think tops possibly

But also someone gotta have a lot of minis to get it to full potential

[brittle salmon]

The thing with Dread Mob is you gotta have some hot as hell dice to make full use of the strats

Or be really circumspect with when you push/select a USR

Hazardous can really stack up

[thin ibex]

Green Tide also feels a bit...

"Good thing you had more than 100 boys lying around"
And
"Building a list is a breeze"

[desert jay]

Wait is it literally just Boyz (unit)?

[jaunty dawn]

yep

not even beast snagga boyz

tau is also on waha

oh dread mob makes gretchin battleline

[thin ibex]

We have hypercrypt at home

[jaunty dawn]

+1 damage for 1 cp and hazardous is absolutely wild

[thin ibex]

It's not exactly the most exciting list building experience

[floral herald]

Unless green tide is really broken I don’t think it’ll see a lot of competitive play

[jaunty dawn]

and it comes with either +2 strength for walkers in melee or +1 to wound in ranged (but only against monsters/vehicles)

[floral herald]

Those lists are really demanding to run in a tourney setting

[desert jay]

Boyz boyz boyz. (In da summertime war in da summertime war)

[floral herald]

Just in terms to moving models and rolling dice under the time limits

[bold halo]

I have 120 boyz (I have lost to time on turn 2)

[jaunty dawn]

this feels like a lowkey implementation of mob rule's old stuff for combining units

but it works with like two guys who are the last ork in their squads too

which is funny

[brittle salmon]

Yeah absolutely

[brittle salmon]

Makes sense

[brittle salmon]

It's super good, it'll probably be best on either Lootaz or Deff Dreads - Kans can get ripped up on a bad hazardous roll but the opportunity cost is a fair bit smaller on the Dread since it's only ever 3 mortals

[desert jay]

I did see opinions that it might be really strong anyways so you might see people just run it with rushed play and shortcuts like movement trays

[floral herald]

Yeah it looks pretty strong and in this meta a strong hard horde can clean up

But I think it’ll have a disproportionately low play rate for its strength

[desert jay]

Can't believe even turn-based tabletop games are rewarding high-APM execution j/k

[floral herald]

I ran pretty hordey albeit not green tide orks in 5e and it is an APM check

Rolling is also kind of slow since you favor huge numbers of weaker attacks

[thin ibex]

i think the number of people who hav enougg boys to run the full green tide

probably arent that many

[floral herald]

Maybe

The Boyz Cap is lower than it used to be so anyone who used to run even an off-tide will probably have enough

Albeit "people who've been playing comp 40k orks since 7e" might pare that down a lot

[thin ibex]

I think it's 114 boys to hit the cap and 6 nobs, then 12 leaders of various descriptions

[floral herald]

Yeah, it just used to be 180

I think over 200 at some point during 6e or 7e with one of those weird detachments

[desert jay]

I didn't have to look hard to find a 150-Boyz 9e list

[lofty warren]

Helldrakes are rad but i wish they had long wyvern taols

Bet someones made a 3d print for that

[past sphinx]

I was given a heldrake years ago and I'm only now building a small csm force for it

Hes just kinda sat there painted and everything

[lofty warren]

I want a csm force but just for the models i really like

Which is probably not anything that would amount to playable, unfortunately

But might make a great diorama

[floral herald]

What models?

[lofty warren]

Havocs, csm daemon prince, venomcrawler, heldrake, chaos terminators, lord discordant

I love me a daemon engine

And also shiny guns

Whatever the new chaos bikes look like when those manifest, ill probably like em too

[floral herald]

new chaos bikes would probably be great yeah

That's a... fieldable army at least

[lofty warren]

Possessed are also good.

[floral herald]

I think its hard to go without chosen/legionaries/cultists competitively rn

[lofty warren]

Boriiiing

[floral herald]

Not necessarily all of them they're just very effective or cost effective troops

[lofty warren]

Anyways i dont really play bighammer wt the moment so its a tabled issue

[floral herald]

yeah fair

[lofty warren]

Also would need to figure out how to fit a helldrake in my toolbox...

[floral herald]

Yeah its hard to transport

[lofty warren]

The problem with vehicles: very cool, hard to transport

[desert jay]

I think a squad or two of Legionairres will round out a diorama tho, it's like how you can't do a landscape of a cabin in the woods without paiting a few trees

[lofty warren]

Yeah, i think my first csm purchase probably will be kt legionaries

Because i play KT at the moment

[floral herald]

KT legionaries are fun

I like the extra stuff

I am admittedly kitbashing mine with some chosen

Though I wound up being lazy and just straight up borrowing a Chosen for my Anointed

[lofty warren]

The worst legionary from the box imo is the possessed because its very half measure

Oh hes going to hit me with his one kinda demony hand

[floral herald]

Yeah I think he’s supposed to be pre-unleashed

I’m proxying him with the 2x lightning claws Chosen

[brittle salmon]

I think Havocs and Terminators are very good chaos units at least

[lofty warren]

Could have at least given him an alt backpack thats got fleshy bits on it

[brittle salmon]

Hard to underrate 4 mobile sustained hits lascannons that can't go below 3+ to hit

[floral herald]

Havocs are solid yeah

They’re fairly fragile but they are good cheap heavy weapons

In a list which has relatively few good shooters

Chaos termies are very good as well

[brittle salmon]

Chaos Termies hit like absolute tanks

It's wild

Turns out giving a bunch of dudes with power fists sustained hits is a bit good

[final tide]

i have to try very hard without the appropriate level of skill, so it'll probably be fine

[brittle salmon]

It's a very weird time when T5 Sv3+ W2 is considered fragile haha

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chaos40k/s/cct648MDHC

These are dope

[floral herald]

They’re not exceptionally fragile but because you can’t take ablative wound bolter guys every loss after the first means a lost lascannon. For an extra 10 pts you can field a chaos pred annihilator which shoots about as well but is T10 W11

They’re better at navigating ruins and such and can control their visibility better

But I think they’re one of the more fragile options for AT

[brittle salmon]

Well, that's fair

[floral herald]

I’m still planning on fielding them but considering using less exciting weapons to make them less of a target

Oh they can take high ground better I think

[jaunty dawn]

bolter havocsss

[jaunty dawn]

csm leaks on warhammer competetive

reddit

veterans of the long war is oath of moment its funny

alpha legion are kinda wild with these

oh huron is still in

seems to be the champion thats gone

chaos bikers lost return to reserves but warp talons now return to reserved if they were in combat in your turn and their target wiped

which does mean they dodge the enemy turn

helbrute instead of getting twin linked for dual fists now gets +2 attacks for any two melee arms

firebrand is cute, reroll leadership so hes like a living chaos icon, and his super flamer causes battleshock tests

fellgor lost scout and charge bonuses in exchange for flanking one turn faster

defiler has gotten a real special rule (while keeping its scuttle rule) and its...interrupt combat for free? I guess?

[pine matrix]

Damn, that's pretty cool

[jaunty dawn]

accursed cultists gained scout 6" in addition to their special rule changing that we saw already

oblits are no longer reinforceable so not as buff efficient

MoP lost his feel no pain for some reason? I feel like he wasnt being used already but okay

he was sponsive

traitor enforcer now gives fire overwatch instead of insane bravery lol

still kills a guy to activate it?

so hes like blam! and then is like "thats the signal that you need to take attacks of opportunity"

"do this but to the enemy please"

renegades are the bikes and transport army apparently

Iron Warriors are -1 to be wounded if you would beat their toughness

haywire daemon hammer

liber hereticus has been completely cut for page space apparently

infernal rites (-1 ap) replaced with eye of the gods which allows you to permanently buff a character if they destroy a unit

+1 move, toughness wounds, and +1 attack, strength, damage in melee

no timing issue! it requires a unit that contains a character to kill a unit and then targets a character in that unit

[thin ibex]

Wait how do we know so much? Big leak?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[thin ibex]

Also defiler change is sick

That's not an awful rule tbh

[jaunty dawn]

pretty much everything afaict

its a good rule!

its just a little random haha

[thin ibex]

Yeah it doesn't necessarily feel like it connects to a defile specifically that's true

[jaunty dawn]

abaddon now joins chosen instead of legionaries

[upper bluff]

All is good

[jaunty dawn]

vashtorr picked up T10 and much meatier melee

[upper bluff]

No changes to his rules?

[jaunty dawn]

his buff is the same

[upper bluff]

😦

+1 strength is so lame

[jaunty dawn]

his debuff has changed

[upper bluff]

Oh?

[jaunty dawn]

when he gets targetted by enemy vehicles within 18" they get hazardous

[upper bluff]

Oh that's much cooler

[thin ibex]

the warp talon rule seems like its gonna make em real big

unit of jumpers with infantry slaying loadout and a jump to safety?

also makes them real cool thematically for night lords

[upper bluff]

Yo the alpha legion detachment has a stratagem for guaranteed deadly demise. That's cool

[thin ibex]

mass infiltrate plus deadly demise

sounds like they'll be very tricksyt

and strongly oriented around aggressive tactics to pen your opponent into their dz

probably will like getting early game leads

[spice flicker]

Plague marines: Plasma gun vs plague belcher vs plague spewer?

[thin ibex]

whats the belcher do?

spewer is a flamer right?

[thin ibex]

oh ok they're both flamers

but like why take the weaker one...

same number of attacks, one has better anti infantry, str, and ap

if you want the optimal answer, the plasma is prolly gonna be the best generalist option, but id say other people dont have access to the belcher, so take that

make use of the unique options

for the faction

[jaunty dawn]

they're seperate allocations

belcher is a flamer, spewer is a heavy flamer, you get one of each per 5

plasma gun replaces the belcher

the spewer doesn't compete with anything

[spice flicker]

Right now the squad consists of 2 blight launchers, 4 with heavy plague weapons (not counting champ), and one with bubonic weapons. I'm trying to figure out what to do with the final 2.

[jaunty dawn]

just take more bubotic weapons? it's probably better to commit to a role

[thin ibex]

really the thing about plasma is you rarely are going wrong taking plasma

its just not always the most right

[spice flicker]

Hmmm....

The going for bubonic weapons idea is tempting but so is the plague spewer to help deal with infantry I might not want to get into melee with without softening up first (such as custodes or world eaters)

[thin ibex]

if they plan to be moving toward the enemy and wil lget close i thin kthe spewer isnt an awful pick

also nice to overwatch if the enemy gets into charge range

[spice flicker]

Think I'll go spewers

Also best way to spend 50 points with death guard besides poxwalkers (would rather have a larger blob with typhus) or a foul blightspawn?

[past sphinx]

Real talk how do we not have updated bikers

[jaunty dawn]

I don't think gw likes bikes anymore tbh

[jaunty dawn]

hoverbikes are allowed

[past sphinx]

Objectively cool

[thin ibex]

personally i thought the outriders looks plenty cool, their competetive relevance is a different factor

[jaunty dawn]

we'll probably get plastic spathas eventually

[past sphinx]

Knowing gw it would be some kind of fucked up daemon engine instead

[thin ibex]

but no new bikes aside from the sm ones have come out right?

[past sphinx]

Outriders do go hard

[thin ibex]

i guess the jetbikes for the custodes are newish

but im not counting hte

[past sphinx]

We got new horses

[thin ibex]

them

oh true

[jaunty dawn]

we got new eldar jetbikes

and also the votann jetbikes

[past sphinx]

Less cool than the giant motorcycle trikes

But pretty cool

Somebody needs a monowheel bike

[jaunty dawn]

you can filter by mounted on the webstore but all that comes up are the new kroot stuff and deathriders haha

[thin ibex]

i really am curious to see what new models the votann will get

[past sphinx]

I'm not saying the old "elites,fast attack ect" system was better but the new one isn't great as categories

[jaunty dawn]

probably a pioneer character at the very least

oh wait the ironmaster has the coat

[past sphinx]

Is the landraider not a dedicated transport gw?

[jaunty dawn]

no

not since a while

[thin ibex]

i think id like to see a mbt for the dorfs, maybe a walker, and a flier (obv gw hates fliers now so we probably wont get that

[jaunty dawn]

oh you were being rhetorical

sorry

a skimmer vehicle could be neat

hovertruck

[past sphinx]

I'd go for something like a termite drill

[jaunty dawn]

40k needs a spider tank

[past sphinx]

Sounds awful to build but yes

[thin ibex]

we got the mechanicus one dont we? not like truly spider

[jaunty dawn]

yeah and the defiler

but also I would like a bigger complement to the onager

[desert jay]

Yeah I do wish there were categories even if the categories didn't mean anything

(Or in their absence, waha could at least sort into infantry, monster, vehicle)

[thin ibex]

i wouldnt mind if they did wholly lore based categories

for the audience/fans that enjoy the like force org stuff

the whole "what does a lore friendly task force actually look like" stuff

you know, when lord solar leontus and creed arent tag teaming every battlefield in the galaxy

or guilleman and calgar arent personally involved in ever ultramarine engagement

[past sphinx]

You know I've recalled seeing dune crawlers with large stowage cages on the back that really sell a spider tank

More stowage pls gw

[desert jay]

Stowage would mean acknowledging logistics exist and if you think about logistics in 40k...

[thin ibex]

build a tank specifically to allows for storing magnetized bits inside of it

genius moves

[jaunty dawn]

I was thinking about dunecrawlers a while ago and I really like the idea of them and their force fields making them basically the trasnport equivalent

for marching skitarii regiments

and a six legged mbt version would be dope

[thin ibex]

i didn't even notice the shield rule before

honestly makes me like them even more

i wish there was more difference between the two modes on the eradicator beam

i feel like it could be cool

these days its like auto default to the neutron laser

i do feel like the ability to provide an aura of defens AND firepower makes it a strong starter army pickup

since it can pull double duty

[jaunty dawn]

I wanna say it came in the codex?

eradication beam has always been a little rough unfortunately

the whole unit kinda lives and dies by how reliable the neutron laser is at the time

they also used to have a whole mechanic of a squadron combining their force fields to be stronger than the sum of their parts

which I really liked

[lofty warren]

The new marine bikes are pretty cool

[thin ibex]

i do like its other gun options, the deadalus aa system is fun

and the twin phosphors are neat

but yeah i like the eradication for vibes

but hte neutron is hte "default"

[rocky shale]

Csm codex looks fun

Funny that they nerfed a bunch of the daemon engine datasheets but gave them a really good detachment

[floral herald]

Oh did those leak too?

[rocky shale]

Yeah

The csm reddit has it all

[lofty warren]

They really should make more daemon engined

[rocky shale]

The chaos knights discord is rioting right now because between dread talons and the vashtorr detachment, basically all of the cool chaos knights stuff got given to another faction.

[floral herald]

sweet I gotta check it out

[lofty warren]

Pure knight players dont deserve nicr things

[rocky shale]

They have helbrutes, forgefiend, maulerfiend, defiler, and venom crawlers which is a decent selection

Chaos knights are mostly war dogs anyways

[lofty warren]

MORE

MORE engines

[floral herald]

Weakest CSM detachment vs coolest Knight USR

[rocky shale]

Yeag

[lofty warren]

Also helbrutes are dumpy

They need a new kit

[rocky shale]

Heldrake is also a daemon engine but ew

[lofty warren]

Heldrake is great shut

Its a cool dragon

40k doesnt get cool dragons

[rocky shale]

It's an aircraft which means the rules are awful

[junior robin]

there are the eldar fire dragons

[rocky shale]

Helbrutes I'm mixed on because the rules are neat but the model is kinda funky. At least you could totally just proxy a dread or something

[junior robin]

I love the hellbrute, got ...4 of them?

[lofty warren]

Rules mean nothing to me

Rules come and go but funny plastic men are forever

[junior robin]

really wish the HH ones where non-legends

[floral herald]

Goddamn Deceptors is cool

[junior robin]

I also looked at the ork detachments and would you know it, none of them really works with my army

[floral herald]

Ironically I think Oath of the Moment works better for CSM than LSM

Since it helps us crit fish for pacts

[jaunty dawn]

its funny cause having oom as a detachment rule means the other detachment rules can lean into it much more haha

[floral herald]

yeah true

[jaunty dawn]

I do wonder if raptors are enough to make the battleshock detachment work

-2 leadership in total

[floral herald]

I don't think they're gonna be competitive if only for unreliability but I think with raptors and such they'll at least be fun

RR everything vs battleshocked is a really potent strategem

[jaunty dawn]

oh

dark pact roll is now before attacking and you have to succeed to get the mark bonus

[junior robin]

any leaks for the "iron warriors" detatchment?

[floral herald]

yeah the whole thing

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1cokr3q

good detachment

this rules

[junior robin]

why not for daemon princes

[jaunty dawn]

oh possessed ability became once per game :(

[floral herald]

Yeah that's a bummer

Sad oblits can't be more than a pair now

[junior robin]

[floral herald]

I'll accept their sacrifice for Warp Talons being solid though

[junior robin]

think I might just give up on my "counts as IW" army, their rules aren't that fun or useful for me (friends got melee armies or ones with majority of weak ranged attacks) and I need to re-build all my chosen since they whey got out-dated by 2 updates in 9e....

[floral herald]

Yeah that's fair

I'm merely whelmed by the VotLW detachment but I'm gonna try it out

[junior robin]

and most of my night lords are outdated or legends....

my WE are 100% unusable...

guess I got to wait on the free EC rules. hopefully still a viable army.

[jaunty dawn]

the new pactbound stratagem does add a bit of word bearers flavour I was worried about not getting when they mentioned that was their detachment

[floral herald]

Yeah that helps

They were at risk of feeling very generic

[jaunty dawn]

but the fact they axed the one undivided enhancement is really funny

[junior robin]

maybe I should get back to that chaos ultramarines army and run them as pactbound

[jaunty dawn]

not that I think there was much point in taking it when you could just hang out with a helbrute

idk I dont think Ive actually played 40k in like a year

[floral herald]

I remember them being a headache for comp balance

[jaunty dawn]

really?

its always been so expensive too

talkin about the liber hereticus

[floral herald]

Oh whoops I thought it was strategems mb

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I get the strat nerf haha

terminators in long war are weird

but I guess you just dont run them into your target

[floral herald]

Yeah basically

Kind of weird

Oh nice transports don't need to match gods now

So you can do nurgle land raiders with khornies inside and such

Augh I really like Deceptors

I either need Sneaky Black Legion fluff guys or I gotta practice my iridescent blues and greens

[jaunty dawn]

deceptors just seems fun

[floral herald]

I like how you can just flood the midfield with models

[jaunty dawn]

black legion for sure could have a spec ops warband

[floral herald]

Yeah for sure

[past sphinx]

I plan on iron warriors but man alpha legion terminators go hard

[desert jay]

What do you got? There’s so much shared roster that’s there’s only a handful of truly WE specific stuff and jakhals and eightbound might even be proxyable

[junior robin]

chaos lord (2 lightning claws),warpsmith, termie lord, 5 terminators (2 lightning claws), 10 chosen

so 0 shared stuff and 1 unit that cant even be fielded in vanilla chaos marines.

[desert jay]

Oh b/c the double lightning claws? Dang

[junior robin]

indeed

I'm still baffled how I managed to build a ork army that fits none of the detatchments, I dont even got enough melee for the "war horde" one....

I cant belive I managed to have too much dakka for a viable ork army

[desert jay]

Wait... accursed weapon + accursed weapon chaos lord is legal, there's just no benefit to it. Dang

While the termies are fine with it, they can do it as "paired accursed weapon"

[junior robin]

yes but only 1 per 5 termies

[floral herald]

Counts as blood angels clearly :p

[desert jay]

My condolances that your termie squad are too sicknasty and have to turn it down

[junior robin]

cant wait to see how they manage to make my GSC army unplayable

[unreal cosmos]

I think sneaky IW would be fun

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this 1k genestealers list?
Primus, warlord, meticulous planner
Kelemorph
Acolyte iconward

2x10 Acolyte hybrids, 7 hand flamers, icon, 2 demo charges
1x10 Neophyte hybrids, icon, 2 seismic cannon

2x5 Atalan Jackals, power weapons, grenade launcher, mining laser on quad
2x Achilles Ridge Runners, spotters, heavy mining lasers

995/1000

[past sphinx]

Thats a lot of walking

[spice flicker]

Aye gotta work in those Stolen jeans somehow and sitting around isn't gonna get it done.

Maybe better to swap out the ridge runners with lascannon scout sentinels and one Jackal squad with a Goliath maybe?

[past sphinx]

A good multi wound model to take some alpha strike would be good

Ridge runners aint bad at it

[spice flicker]

Hmmm....

[peak olive]

GW rose the model prices yaaaay

3d print time

[pastel rampart]

In my case it's "oh hey I should cast these old metal models already."

It went well, honestly.

There have been some bubbles but nothing I can't patch up. Some of it is hard to notice since it's...well, white resin, but painted up? Won't know the difference.

[solemn gull]

Thats a pretty good cast!

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, pretty happy with it.

I know I'd get way better results if my pressure pot was operational but the compressor for it crapped out and I haven't gotten to replacing it.

As it is I'm missing all of two of the metal models and tbh for a functional unit I don't need those, I can just bitz swap. But it would be nice if I could get the champ and musician.

(now, finding old metal daemonettes, that is a hellish mission in and of itself)

[pulsar cairn]

warhammer was a lot sillier back then right?

[junior robin]

true

[pastel rampart]

By "back then" you mean pre-6th ed WHFB/3rd ed 40k, yeah.

There's still a good amount of silliness in it, under all the grimdark.

[floral herald]

I think the silliness level has remained relatively the same honestly

[past sphinx]

People try to take it much more seriously

That being fans seem to

[junior robin]

everything have gone downhill since we lost the half-eldar ultramarine librarian

[past sphinx]

Inquisitor Obi-Wan stands triumphantly

[floral herald]

They gotta bring that guy back but with like really obnoxious spelling so it doesn’t violate copywrite

Ohbyeone Sherlock (public domain btw) Cleausuo or some shit

[desert jay]

"Sherlock" is public domain sure but if you invent a spelling then you can trademark it

Anyway for spelling I'm gonna suggest O'Bewon Shurlocke Cluso

[floral herald]

Oh yeah good point

[pastel rampart]

Inquisitor O.S.C.

Never explain what it stands for.

[past sphinx]

The notorious O.S.C.

Black library needs a grant morrison

[soft willow]

They had one.

[past sphinx]

More nonbinary scottish wizards would overall improve the place

[soft willow]

They didn't let him write more than three novels.

[past sphinx]

Sounds about right

[soft willow]

The Inquisition War trilogy is a trip.

And Ian Watson is the closest we're getting to a Grant Morrison in 40k.

[past sphinx]

I do find it pretty damn funny that bloodlines, a damned fine book in regards to its presentation of imperial society was written by the space wolves author

Takes all sorts to get it right I guess

[uneven ember]

There are some people who will get so mad when you point out that "a guy in a Pilgrim buckler hat pulls out a palm laser canon built by a space alien orangutan to shoot a giant green cockney footballl hooligan in the face" or "nuns with artillery support from a tank that's also a pipe organ fight space elves with guns that shoot ninja stars" are inherently silly concepts.

[pulsar cairn]

btw

how good are the imperials in space battles?

compared to other factions that is

[jaunty dawn]

competent

I think all the major factions are relatively balanced in that regard

[upper canopy]

Yeah

Except Necrons mostly

[jaunty dawn]

wargame setting n all

[upper canopy]

Who are sorta hilariously overpowered compared to everyone else

[pulsar cairn]

right

I'll say tho

Imperial ships look a bit boring design wise(for me at least)

[soft willow]

I actually think they're some of the more iconic ships in the setting.

Like they scream I'm from Warhammer at you.

[pulsar cairn]

that's fair

[uneven ember]

so

[thin ibex]

wouldnt the dredd mob maybe work?

i think the aeldari strictly speaking have very powerful fleets but also just dont have the numbers to commit too often to epic space battles

like a craftworld is both a mega ship AND an entire world of a dying people

but yeah necrons are tippy tops, laughably more powerful than their peers in the void

its honestly a huge victory when helbrecht managed to board and destroy imotekh's flagship

[uneven ember]

The Imperium has tends to have some of the most big ships compared to other factions. Their mainline ships tend a bit slower, not quite as long ranged as some, and have really heavy armor at the front so they're good at getting right into enemy formations and laying out broadsides.
Chaos are theoretically all Imperial ships, but they've got a whole older design philosophy. Tend to be a bit faster and longer ranged, so they more try to wheel around opponents to keep their distance.
Eldar are super fast and have a lot of firepower for their size, but they're fragile (if you can hit them) and they don't do the bigger ships as much. Good at piracy, go figure.

Orks are stupid nonsense and I love them. Most ork capital ships had been either Imperial or Chaos ships at some point before being improved on, so it's a known risk that any kind of fight that leaves a lot of capital ship hulks floating around you can get ork spaceship problems.

[pulsar cairn]

I remember they also like to take stuff from the Tau

[thin ibex]

iirc ork ships of peer tonnage are much larger than ships in teh same class because of all th extra shit piled on

[uneven ember]

Tau, no big surprise, have lots of big guns and a lot of fancy turrets and drone torpedoes but aren't very good with boarding sorts of stuff.

[thin ibex]

Tau rely heavily on their more conservative void combat strategy and advanced guns and targeting iirc, and generally don't like to go toe to toe

[floral herald]

Orks are kind of similar to space marines or a “super imperium” faction

They mount all their guns forward have hugely armored prows and go full speed ahead all the time

But they’re also slow and have mostly short ranged gunnery

[thin ibex]

well, they're slow and sometimes REALLY FAST in one direction

iirc orks also tend to have like many times the guns and so on to a comparative imperial ship, but many of which are placed terribly, are innacurate, and might blow up on their first shot

[floral herald]

Even with their auto pass AAF orders they’re still sort of slow since they get less CM out of it

[thin ibex]

(lore wise i mean)

[uneven ember]

Space Marines are in a fun place, because theoretically their fleets aren't supposed to be for fleet battles, they're supposed to be for getting their infantry compliment to a planet.
They have the best armor in the game, are a bit below on shields, and their guns lack range because they're supposed to be for punching through orbital defenses and bombarding planets.

[desert jay]

Not if it's based on Flash Gitz and Battlewagons

[floral herald]

They’re also startlingly fast

Space marines are a really fun fleet

[thin ibex]

in the lore space marines are ALL about closing in and getting into boxing matches, and really really want to board

they're really aggressive, more heavily armored for their tonnage

and very aggro

iirc a strike cruiser's prow is bot ha giant armor slab and a boarding wedge

[uneven ember]

& tyranids, probably to absolutely no one's surprise, are big on floodoing the zone and are genuinely nasty in boarding actions.

[floral herald]

They also have extremely good short ranged gunnery and really good leadership

Nids also have their weird synapse rules

[uneven ember]

Yeah, rules-wise you get to roll Leadership to figure out which of your units don't have to act based on a flow chart.
Its... interesting.

[lofty warren]

CSM in bfg being the shootier faction than imp is endlessly funny to me

[floral herald]

Tbf it’s chaos period not a lot of space marines

CSM did mostly use the same ships though