Warhammer and Such

[pulsar cairn]

I also find that interesting cause, it also explains why admech doesnt make those gubs for the rest of the imperium

Cause...well probably both expensive and not very practical

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

probably some of them don't get why regular humans see the radiation as such a big deal

[pulsar cairn]

Probably they are very disconnected from actual humans

Hell

You probably have a couple orks who get humies better than the admech

[jaunty dawn]

this is what they got in the notorious 3.5 codex

they were a cult legion so were a step further than having a slaanesh marked lord (which got you 'noise marines' as troops/slaanesh marked stuff as whatever it normally is)

you gave up not only khorne stuff but also tzeentch and nurgle in stuff in exchange for free champions in favored (6 model) squads

as well as access to even more sonic weaponry on dreads and preds

mark of slaanesh at this time gave -1 initiative to the enemy rather than +1 to yourself it became later, as well as the option to take sonic weaponry on your infantry and bikers

so overall more just like. slaanesh subfaction. more restrictions in exchange for more slaanesh goodies

[thin ibex]

more slaanesh goodies seems to directly translate to "more sonic weapons"

with a little initiative cherry on top

[jaunty dawn]

nah the initiative was huge but all slaanesh models got it

[ebon forge]

Do you think that, when a novel uses Chaos as the enemy (and only chaos) it becomes too black and white?

[thin ibex]

EC = Perfection = really loud noises and making the other guy slower

[jaunty dawn]

in 3.5 they didn't actually have seperate profiles for cult units

[thin ibex]

not by default, it depends on how the writer uses them within the narrative structure

because, iirc, in the iron warriors novels, chaos was the protag and the antag

[ebon forge]

I am reading Kingsblade and it became almost cartoony how it is black and white when ||The Imperium Knights were betrayed by turncoats Knights||

Specially since the protag'sdad, the High King, was such a charismatic, smiling, King

Book still fun tho

[ebon forge]

Oh yeah, Iron Warriors are great on that
But Word Bearers is... harder to not be just evil.

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah other than sonic weaponry the main benefit was the incentive to have 6/12/18 man squads in exchange for saving 13 pts per squad (which helped when the mandatory mark was 5ppm)

as well as easier summoining for daemonettes

[thin ibex]

18 man marine squads?

wild

[jaunty dawn]

yeah 20 was the max for csm squads and chosen squads

and tbf the other cult legions only got the summoing bonus and the free champions, EC were the only ones with a bunch of unique 'units'

they were just built on going all in on an elite, all-marked, favoured number squad army and giving a slight edge for doing so basically

notably raptors were not allowed to take marks so all the cult legions lost raptors I think?

and TS and DG lost bikes as well

[pastel rampart]

"Unique" in terms of wargear, which at least World Eaters also had via chain axes.

[jaunty dawn]

not in 3.5! that was part of the mark of khorne stuff

[pastel rampart]

Well, you bought the mark and then could purchase mark-specific wargear, which all 4 cults could do.

[jaunty dawn]

regular noisemarines were also not locked to EC, it was just the heavier stuff like sonic dreads and predators

and ec were the only ones to get stuff like the latter

my point here being these are the benefits over just taking a mark on your lord

[pastel rampart]

Well, no cult marine was locked actually, since marks were a unit upgrade. But point taken.

[thin ibex]

hm so there wasn't a token "these ar the biker chaos marines"?

[pastel rampart]

There was, but in 3.5 almost every unit could take a mark or in the case of vehicles, dedicated to a god.

So there was biker marines but the could also get a mark.

[jaunty dawn]

I think to an extent like. juggernauts were a lot more popular than slaanesh steeds

so you'd probably see more ec bikes overall than we bikes. maybe

and also one of the big benefits of bikes was the twin linked bolters which mark of slaanesh let your replace, but that benefit wasn't unique to ec

[pastel rampart]

Juggy's gave +1 to s, w, and a, so while it wasn't fast it was a decently cheap upgrade to make a tanky lord.

[thin ibex]

hmm my vibe of ec being speed marines comes from later rules stuff

or like slaanesh being speed vibed

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's more slaanesh yeah

and then sometimes it's about feel no pain

and I think by 7th they'd restricted taking cult units as troops to just the cult legions

[pastel rampart]

Also, double-checking, a cult army could take undivided or unmarked units so they could take raptors if they wanted to.

Most just didn't because uh, raptors weren't very good compared to bikes.

[jaunty dawn]

nope! it's the first bullet point in every cult legion

[pastel rampart]

Well shit, forgot about that

[jaunty dawn]

if you just took a mark on your lord though yes. you only lost the opposite mark

[pastel rampart]

Then yeah poor raptors, you only saw some use with night lords when people wanted to be funny

[ebon forge]

oh btw, you are the person that likes to make armies for fun list right?

What you recommend for a 1500 points knight army?

[thin ibex]

standby, though i fully admit im a total sucker for hte knight paladin

[thin ibex]

This is a quick idea, the crusader being your backline and the paladin being the front. The Inquisitor henchman squad is pure cheapo relatively survivable side objective/ action doers

[ebon forge]

Thank you kindly!

Also yes, the knight paladin is SO cool looking

[thin ibex]

note, a big portion of your anti tank is either weight of fire or melee, which might be a negative

but i figured volume of attacks on the crusader was good

and if they kill it, it still gets to hold an objective

thanks to the banner

[ebon forge]

So it's more to rush to objective while killing what's in range rather than focusing on board whiping ?

[thin ibex]

sort of, the overal lstrat is to have your crusader pop onto the rear objective, then depending on secondaries and primaries, stay there and shoot all game, or move out. The paladin and warglaives are pushing forward no matter what

and hte helverin is either also sitting in rear or sideline

paladin wants to contest center or flank, and the warglaives have to chose to overload with it, or push where it isnt

the inquisitor just does actions, holds side or mid objectives to allow the knights to keep moving

[ebon forge]

oh nice!

[jaunty dawn]

this is cute

no command points in spearhead

you just can use every objective card either to get victory points or use a command

also sounds like spearhead is also gonna have actual terrain rules and expectations

[ebon forge]

This thing is so excessive it pleases slaneesh

[spice flicker]

That is a big truck

[south axle]

I wanna see the Skaven Spearhead box

We know 1 guaranteed unit in the box, but that's it

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408609553597464579/1235579356794060840/20240425_150032.jpg?ex=6634e272&is=663390f2&hm=2cf00ccb1d9a9e8bb7a72eae5b86de47d579bc7c00f136795ed0184a5bfc9783&

[thin ibex]

I know gw has decided it hates fliers in 40k, on a competitive level anyway, but I feel like a speed freeks list is incomplete without a jet covered in machineguns

[soft willow]

Back in my day a speed freaks list was incomplete without orks falling out of Trukks and dying.

[desert jay]

Even the humble deth kopta is out of favor

[jaunty dawn]

are those

serpentine storm boyz

[upper canopy]

Those are the exhaust trails of their jetpacks

[thin ibex]

hey are all of the conversions from like childrens like tonka construction toys

[pastel rampart]

Looks to be.

https://i0.wp.com/ifelix.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IMG_0308.JPG.jpg

His killa kans were made from kinder eggs.

https://ifelix.net/tag/george-dellapina This was all from like 2004 or a little earlier so, we're talking 20-odd years ago. Lots of scattered shots and little info.

[thin ibex]

thats pretty sick

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/andycruns.bsky.social/post/3kriressytl2x

[thin ibex]

you know, not considering points costs, which otherwise are very important

space marines and legionnaires are fairly resilient units as a bottom/baseline tier no?

2 wounds and a 3+ save isn't weak

I do think more things shoot at S4 or better than at s3, which makes most things wound them successfully fairly often

[jaunty dawn]

theyre pretty good

[floral herald]

Yeah they’re solid

Legionaries are even pretty cheap now

[jaunty dawn]

especially as inv save horde becomes increasingly common as a skew gatekeeper faction I think theyll do even better

[past sphinx]

my saturn had the printer film break 😦

[floral herald]

They’re honestly a pretty solid unit now

[jaunty dawn]

cause ppl are gonna be running less plasma spam stuff cause they need to also make space for high volume shooting

[floral herald]

Yeah that kind of TAC evolution can make power armor “tide” surprisingly viable

[solemn gull]

Only vangard units get those rifles

[past sphinx]

i gotta change out like 3 saturn sized tanks FEP now

thats roughly 300,000 screws

[jaunty dawn]

oooof

[past sphinx]

im going to get an electric screw driver before i do it

i will stand before god and admit i have bought new tanks before replacing fep in old ones, i have hated it with such a passion

[jaunty dawn]

omg

[thin ibex]

oo im gonna try making a BT Infantry Shooting army or something

it may be way less interesting once i start doing it ofc

i do feel like BT ironstorm is already represented

so ill prolly do anvil

or their own detach

[past sphinx]

sometimes i value my time over my limited amount of money

and i am a cave man

unga bunga

[thin ibex]

I screech into the ether "Bolterrrrs"

[plucky token]

bolters

[uneven ember]

In Aeronautica Imperialis the ork planes can use one of their wing bomb slots for more guns.

[plucky token]

as they should

(this is a thing that happened in real life too, some planes could mount gunpods for extra dakka in place of bombs)

[uneven ember]

(heh yeah that is cool)

[thin ibex]

Wyches seem not great

But cool anyway

Kinda fun using mechanized list that's just blistering fast

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/PatsoCatso/status/1786161760816234987/photo/1

[valid brook]

Weird Cold War type shit my beloved

[ebon forge]

Warhammer + stuff feels so weird.
Like, they make a lot of assets, start a few series but i never felt there was something peak, you know?
Almost aimless
Pirah Nexus felt solid but a bit too short, like we should have a second season but nothing in the works.

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgUsHw_LBX0

[ebon forge]

Do Knight Pilots have models? I know the Knight Paladin comes with a smoll chap

[past sphinx]

We had models for pilots inside the knights once, chaos and otherwise

[jaunty dawn]

all the regular questoris knights now come with that

[jaunty dawn]

originally it was just the canis rex/preceptor box but now there's only one box with all the imperial knight sprues in it

[ebon forge]

That's adorbs

[ebon forge]

What's the name of the unit? Like
If i were to search on teh store what it would be called?

[jaunty dawn]

I'm pretty sure the resin ones like atlas shared are out of production

found a better photo of the plastic interior

[ebon forge]

god that's so cool

[thin ibex]

you know honestly incubi dont seem that frightening in melee either, aside from being able to pump out 6 attacks if you use the dual glaives

[ebon forge]

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/knight-preceptor-2022 oh this one?

[jaunty dawn]

yes but there's only one box

like there's only pictures of it on that page

[south axle]

I hope Plague Priests get the Priest keyword in 4oS so we can have rat necromancy

[jaunty dawn]

but you get the parts of it if you buy the imperial knight box from any of the variant pages. it's all the same product

I also imagine Pestilens will definitely still be priest focused yeah

[south axle]

This is from the new Path to Glory campaign stuff for 4oS

[jaunty dawn]

cool that heroes are actually gonna get stuff this time around haha

multiple command traits is cool n all

oh shiiit anvil of apotheosis as a core path to glory feature

that's cool

oh wait slightly misread, every battletome will have it's own anvil of apotheosis

[south axle]

Launch box reveal on the 18th

[jaunty dawn]

so it's gonna be more specific but you gotta wait for your one to come out

[south axle]

There will probs be some kind of Index Anvil

[ebon forge]

ah i see

[south axle]

Imp Knights have 4 unique plastic kits, with each kit having stuff for 2-6 different profiles

[jaunty dawn]

not anymore

there's one box for each class

[south axle]

Armiger, Lancer class, Errant class, Castellan class?

[jaunty dawn]

or maybe that's what you're saying

ohh I guess they're plastic now

I'm pretty sure none of the cerastus class knights share a kit no

[south axle]

Seems so, which just feels wrong

[jaunty dawn]

they share most sprues I imagine

[south axle]

Armiger, Dominus and Questoris are 3 kits that build several different variants, and Cerastus are 3 kits that only build a specific variant

[jaunty dawn]

mhm

[south axle]

It looks like base 3 sprues, with 1-2 variant specific sprues

[jaunty dawn]

they made fully posable chain links yeah

[south axle]

Hard to tell, as Acheron and Castigator only show variant sprues

I hope the new model next week is a Skaven

[soft willow]

I own all three Cerastus knights and the core leg/body sprues are the same.

The heads and weapon sprues are different for each box.

[jaunty dawn]

also relevant to the conversation, the cerastus knights just have an interior cockpit as standard

as part of the body sprue itself

no little guy on foot though

[soft willow]

The guy on foot is technically the pilot for Canis Rex.

[jaunty dawn]

ye

easy enough head swap tho

[soft willow]

Honestly at the point where you're collecting Knights you'll have more than a few copies of him.

[ebon forge]

cut his head
Change head
Change helmet
Make little guy army

[soft willow]

Army might require you to buy a lot of questoris kits.

Squad? That's pretty reasonable.

[ebon forge]

Knightless Knights Knight squad

[spice flicker]

I wonder if a list focused around tempestus scions might be good for a crusade and how best to go about it?

[thin ibex]

personally id play into having them mounted up like shock infantry in tauroxes, chimera's and deepstrike

youd need to still have some diversified unit selection to keep it interesting

but like to think of a scions army as heavy infantry +light vehicle support personally

or possible air support

[spice flicker]

So bring in sentinels and hellhounds I guess and I do like the weapons the taurox prime though unfortunately it has no firing deck.

[thin ibex]

true but its rule is great for boosting the power of a squad

rr to wounds can help them jump the hump on being able to deliver AT firepower at an infantry scale

[spice flicker]

Yep

Now to go about designing a 1k, 1.5k, and 2k tempestus scions list.

[spice flicker]

How does this sound for 1k?

3x Militarum Tempestus Command Squad, medipack, standard, vox, hotshot volley gun, plasma pistol

3x5 Tempestus Scions, vox, hotshot volley gun

2x armored sentinel, HKM, chainsaw, lascannon
2x hellhounds, HKM, heavy flamer, Inferno cannon

3x taurox primes, autocannons, missile launcher, Storm bolter

1000/1000 points

[jaunty dawn]

hellhounds feel a little random, could use byllgryns for a bit more tempestus variety

[spice flicker]

I know it's not a lot of board presence nor anti-armor heavy outside the sentinels.

Honestly not a fan of ogryns nor bullgryns

[solemn gull]

Not enough valkries

[jaunty dawn]

or vultures

rip vendettas

[solemn gull]

Everyone knows in lore that every individual scion has their own Valkyrie

[pulsar cairn]

Fried cheeeeeese

[spice flicker]

I can swap out both hellhounds or a single hellhound+sentinels for either a vulture or valkyrie

Hmmm.....

I could also get rid of a taurox+hellhound to afford a valkyrie with 15 points to spare

[spice flicker]

How does this sound for 2k?

3x Militarum Tempestus Command Squad, medipack, standard, vox, hotshot volley gun, plasma pistol

3x5 Tempestus Scions, vox, hotshot volley gun
3x10 Tempestus Scions, vox, 2x volley gun, 2x meltagun (or plasma undecided)

2x armored sentinel, HKM, chainsaw, lascannon
3x2 scout sentinels, HKM, chainsaw, lascannon
3x valkyrie, lascannon, 2x missile pods, 2x heavy bolters

3x taurox primes, autocannons, missile launcher, Storm bolter

2000/2000 points

[solemn gull]

wut

[pulsar cairn]

Hi

[solemn gull]

Hey

You’re cool

[pulsar cairn]

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/Pjschard/status/1786354262609379663

[pulsar cairn]

wtf is that

[spice flicker]

The spider king

[bright dove]

That's a Bad Moon

[long void]

That's some aspirational goblin aesthetic right there

[past sphinx]

a friend

[thin ibex]

I want to play a Warhammer 40k video game that feels like the astartes shorts

[floral herald]

It's primo eurojank but Space Hulk Deathwing kinda scratches that itch

[runic swallow]

From the creators of the foremost example of FPS Eurojank comes “the game that game wanted to be originally”

This is not a joke

[solemn gull]

E.Y.E is great

[jaunty dawn]

cant believe they revealed the 5th darktide character

[storm schooner]

wow a Cammando Ork

[jaunty dawn]

i think these are new models???

or at least blooded and blackstone fortress traitor guard like digitally kitbashed into a new monopose set anyway

no I cant see the sergeants backbanner anywhere else wtf

okay the sniper is the same as the blooded one

ah wait nvm its just a few blooded alt builds

[solemn gull]

I need to make a Necromundan 8th gang

[tired cairn]

One handing a bolt-pistol as a normal human must be terrible for your wrist

[junior robin]

you just ask the machine spirit nicely not to create any recoil when you fire it

[quaint compass]

There's bolt weaponry rated for regular human use

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

bolt just means two stage rocket ammunition

you can get different calibers within that

[junior robin]

with the vulkan mega-bolter among the largest

the main gun on this thing

[valid brook]

If anything, bolt weapons should have milder recoils than their caliber suggests; all that’s in the case is a lil booster charge to clear the muzzle before the rocket kicks in

[jaunty dawn]

less than an equivalent conventional round yeah

still significant though

and there's the fact that you the fuel used after shooting is still mass that has an inertial effect when expelled

[valid brook]

yeah yeah, f=m*a

(Extremely eyecatch guy voice: Fullmetal Alchemist)

But like 40x46mm feels incredibly mild to shoot considering, and although that’s the hi-lo system at work I feel like it’s an appropriate point of reference

[jaunty dawn]

I think bolt guns are still firing with supersonic velocity before rockets come into it

so not reallyyyyy

[valid brook]

Although the booster➡️sustainer model of bolt rounds suggests that there would be a sort of close in ‘dead zone’ while the projectile accelerates after clearing the muzzle

Do they have an arming distance? That doesn’t feel very imperial engineering

It is perhaps an easy trap for fools, trying to rationalize anything about 40k technology as presented

[jaunty dawn]

pretty much

[valid brook]

Nevertheless!

[pulsar cairn]

Btw

Can u play traitor guard?

Or just the idea of it?

I imagine they dont have a codex

[thin ibex]

you sort of can, they dont have a lot of specific models, but you'd play CSM and there is a trip of traitor guard units

i think the easiest way to play traitor guard is just play Astra Militarum and change the keyword from Imperium or whatever to Chaos

which isnt an official thing mind

but it means you actually get some variety of units n stuff

[lucid scarab]

Traitor guard is just guard but they’re a bit spikier

Just use the guard codex. No reason you can’t make them chaos guys 🙂

[pastel rampart]

Traitor guard haven't had an official non-FW list since 3rd edition via Lost and the Damned.

Which is annoying.

[floral herald]

yeag

[pastel rampart]

Currently sculpting too much fur.

[pine matrix]

Yesss lammasu time

[pastel rampart]

Base model is the chimera/manticore, head is a long out of print Raging Heroes replacement, wings are the ancient GW plastic dragon wings, and the rider is a chaos knight (before the most recent ones).

[bold halo]

oh hey I have that raging heroes manticore somewhere

always meant to use the lammasu head on a giant or something

[pastel rampart]

I should say, the body is the GW one.

https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-lord-of-wrath-on-manticore-220232 I do like this one, it's got a suitably brutal look to it

[bold halo]

yeah the one I have is this guy

got it actual ages ago, wild seeing someone else with that head

[pastel rampart]

I like that model, it's one of the few Raging Heroes models that isn't just tits-out.

[bold halo]

lol yeah

plan was to use it for a dark elf leader unit but then I fell off the game on an edition change that made my beloved monster mash lists Bad

[pastel rampart]

...hmmm, you might be able to do something close with OPR's Age of Fantasy.

Dark Elf list got a buncha monsters.

[bold halo]

maybe, but that was over a decade ago and I'm more into small scale skirmish stuff at this point

don't have the energy or time to paint a huge army

[pastel rampart]

Fair. OPR is closer to like...3rd/4th ed 40k or 6th ed WHFB in terms of model amount. 2k lists would be closer to 1k in those editions.

Makes it more manageable in terms of having something functional and playable.

[pale narwhal]

FW list was fun. Had some neat things in there, if not overly strong iirc

[cinder wraith]

wip

[untold swallow]

Nice

Is that pauldron 3rd party?

[cinder wraith]

nope

lion model conversion

[uneven ember]

guys what's the funniest name for an Imperial battleship

Hubris Invictus
Hubris Invincible
Invincible

[thin ibex]

playing rt, i kinda like how it portrays the complicated authoritarial intersection between a rogue trader and a lord inquisitor

the lord inquisitor himself says, after giving all but a thinly veiled order via threat/blackmail, something like "I wouldn't dream of ordering you, that would conflict with your warrant of trade"

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/VaevictisMinis/status/1786848989775598077 now dems some rats

[uneven ember]

Yeah, that's an aspect of 40K (& plenty of settings, honestly) that I really love and a lot of people just often don't seem to get on a fundamental level.
A lot of people kind of look for answers on who outranks whom on an org chart, rather than really getting that it's all an issue of respect in accordance to the position, how people personally relate to each other, what arrangements they've come to, who has the most soldiers in place right now, what kind of leverage you can bring, and how far someone wants to push along the suggest/ request/ demand to try and get what they want without provoking backlash.
It's messy and that's both the result of the IoM's unmanagable bulk and deliberate safeguards against Horus 2.0

[uneven ember]

ohhhh I like

[pulsar cairn]

HMMM

what do we call the burocracy folk in the imperium again?

adminstratrum?

[uneven ember]

Administratum ya

[pulsar cairn]

listening to watcher in the rain

and that one 1984 adaptation that i got on audible

makes me wanna run a game with that

there's some much bullshit in there i feel like i could run something fun involving it

[uneven ember]

no that could be fun
Maybe a bit of Brazil too

[upper bluff]

So is Deathwatch really that bad?

I've been looking at their stuff and it seems alright

Is the cost really so high that 10 man 4+ invuln and 2 wounds with an apothecary not good

[floral herald]

They are pretty weak right now

I think part of it is that we’re in an armor meta and their AT is iirc not great

Or fragile

[jaunty dawn]

someone ran a list where they put elysian drop troops as their faction and went 4-1

its uh

a bunch of kasrkin mostly but it does have 2 cyclops demolition vehicles

its really funny how lord solar leontus and ursula creed are just constantly hanging out

in every single battle

[pulsar cairn]

ur going to brazil

[uneven ember]

"You can go anywhere you like... except for Brazil. Sir Integra was quite insistant that you never visit Brazil."

[brisk mountain]

Come to Brazil.

[tired cairn]

Is going to Brazil like being sent to the Netherlands?

[thin ibex]

https://vxtwitter.com/MeU_317/status/1786013786023100895

[pastel rampart]

Pretty much done with this one.

[thin ibex]

who's a more powerful psyker, ahriman or eldrad

in lore anyway

I feel like eldrad could probably hold his ground against even magnus personally

[pastel rampart]

Eldrad, probably.

[bright dove]

Ahriman is the less powerful Psyker, and definitely would have to lean on sorcery to compare.

[upper canopy]

Eldrad has personally battled multiple greater daemons at the same time and won

[floral herald]

I think there’s an element of “skill and experience vs raw strength” but I also say Eldrad

Homeboy is like top 5 in the setting period

[soft willow]

Top 3.

[upper canopy]

Top if we only count people who are alive.

[soft willow]

I may not like it, but like short of Big E and the Chaos Gods, he's basically it.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I guess other gods too

but you could just as easily ban them from the ranking really

[thin ibex]

he's basically the like definitive aeldari psyker right? Like THE guy

hes also been around for goddamn ever

[soft willow]

Definately the strongest "mortal" psyker alive, probably the top 3 all time.

[upper canopy]

I really do wanna see Eldrad having a Rock Lee Takes Off His Leg Weights moment

Because Eldar psykers are regimented and disciplined and constantly held back by their own exercises so they don't burn too bright.

[thin ibex]

ulthwe lists are abit fun when you want to do a guardian/psyker heavy list with next to know aspect warriors

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/cerberusxt.bsky.social/post/3krqucr3b4k2j

That blade gradient is sick

[thin ibex]

Bloop

[peak olive]

New head cannon: Ahzek Ahriman is a femboy. There is no other reason of why I think of this other than it would be funny

[uneven ember]

I'm pondering the scale of 40K ships and wondering how the plasma-boilers could require something to be shoveled into them to function.

[pulsar cairn]

Btw

There's warp whales right?

Are they like

Agressive? Or actual whales who live in the warp?

ya dont need to be agressive to be dangerous

So im asking if they just hang out

[floral herald]

It's the warp so they're dangerous

[upper bluff]

They probably just hang out and cause psykers to endlessly make whale noises or something

[plucky token]

'shovel the coolant in faster, we need to floor it!'

[tired cairn]

Does anyone go warp whaling? Or more generally engage in ship combat in the warp?

[floral herald]

The Leagues do some analogous stuff since they have really tough gellar fields

Though I think the lore is more them taking salvage from "warp wrecks"

[quaint compass]

There's also void whales, which are just space whales

[pulsar cairn]

Yes! I was thinking of those

[plucky token]

those show up in the battlefleet gothic video game sometimes as an environmental condition, they're some pretty big lads

[uneven ember]

Now I'm thinking of Space Hulks and how weird a concept it is to just kinda drop into the setting.
Random junk and spaceships just accumulate into giant spaceborne trash piles that randomly drift in and out of hell.

[jaunty dawn]

oh csm preoder next sat

[floral herald]

ooh

[jaunty dawn]

oh cultists of the abyss went off sale at some point :(

but its okay because you can buy a single guy?

is he gonna have his own datasheet again? that would be kinda wild

oh wait yeah explicitly

how funny would it be if cultists aren't allowed to take guns in the new codex lol

I'm glad this means he isn't relegated to an oversized flamer model though. his flamer is quite delicate but he's beeg

abaddon has lost god keywords

[brittle salmon]

Good

[floral herald]

That just makes it so you can’t put him with non-undivided models right?

[jaunty dawn]

it means he no longer gives every dark pact at once

as well as forcing his retinue to be undivided

his cp ability also went from 5+/2+ to just a 7+

[floral herald]

yeah

not a great day for him

Though he's extremely competitve for characters rn so maybe its worth

[jaunty dawn]

taking it from approx 70% to 60% apparently

[floral herald]

yeah its a nerf though not a big one

Losing the 4 god bonuses is a bummer though

That was a fun, albeit very strong element

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it was very flavourful

[upper bluff]

Was Abbadon always an infantry not a monster?

[floral herald]

yeah

[jaunty dawn]

it does mean there'll be less of a power boost in Slaves to Darkness though

[floral herald]

I think that's always been the case

[upper bluff]

I always assumed he was a monster cause of his size like Guilliman

[jaunty dawn]

meaning he'll be more consistent across detachments

[floral herald]

Hmm yeah that is important

Honestly provided he gets proportionately cheaper for the nerfs I'm not sad about it

[upper bluff]

Anyways I'm just praying they don't give Huron the legends treatment

[jaunty dawn]

mm

I wouldn't hold my breath

[floral herald]

I like him as a lore centerpiece but he's expensive as hell and you tend to want him with a pile of terminators who are also expensive

[jaunty dawn]

gonna be weird having a red corsair/renegade inspired detachment without huron

oh yeah datasheet count 49 currently

we're gaining 2 - firebrand and jump lord

we're losing 2, noise marines and lucius

[floral herald]

jump lord ❤️

[jaunty dawn]

so huron is likely to be the 3rd lost datasheet to take it to 48

[floral herald]

Wouldn't the Cultist Firebrand be another new datasheet?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I did say haha

[floral herald]

Oh lmao

[jaunty dawn]

hm

[floral herald]

I think the normal chaos lord is also changing as a sheet because of the new model but I don't think that'll change the total

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[upper bluff]

Is Khorne Lord of Skulls a forge world model?

That might get axed

[floral herald]

It's not

[jaunty dawn]

I can see a world where one of these abilities becomes the renegade detachment ability and one of them becomes an enhancement for it

[upper bluff]

Yeah Huron is leaving

[jaunty dawn]

so huron is gone but you can proxy him for a chaos lord with a renegade enhancement

threading the needle

[floral herald]

He has relatively unique wargear so that's kind of a bummer

Maybe we can get a heavy flamer enhancement thing

[brittle salmon]

Huron, more like hugone

[jaunty dawn]

lord of skulls was in escalation when a bunch of superheavies became plastic

it was an entirely new model though iirc - at least in 40k scale, I think it existed in epic first

[floral herald]

Oh fuck these boxes are good

[jaunty dawn]

but that's when we got plastic baneblades and stompas etc

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, lord of skulls was in Epic first.

[floral herald]

Ouch oof ow my wallet

There's a kill team hidden in here

[jaunty dawn]

I'm tempted

[floral herald]

same

[jaunty dawn]

but luckily I hate the raptor sculpt

[pastel rampart]

https://creativetwilight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/KhorneLordofBattle.jpg

[uneven ember]

"Mouth of Sauron-looking motherfuckers."

[upper bluff]

Both Battle forces are very good

[jaunty dawn]

with the shooty cultist models being dropped I think we're losing autogun cultists

but we have traitor guardsmen so

I guess that wouldn't be completely awful to have a melee cultist and ranged cultist and you can just model either however you want anyway

[floral herald]

yeah

I'm down for cultists getting a melee focus

Though I think shooting cultists were usually the better choice?

Not like their shooting was that notable anyway

[bright dove]

I'm down for Traitor Guardsmen and Shooty Cultists.

[jaunty dawn]

shooting can be pretty much free

[bright dove]

*Melee Cultists

[jaunty dawn]

while melee you have to actively go for

and accursed cultists massively outclassed them in anway

[floral herald]

yeah

ACs were cranked

Might still be

[zinc field]

This is a very good day for me to have a mostly empty wallet lol

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/Sughammer/status/1787131770569158814

[upper bluff]

Unprimarises your marine

[plucky token]

40th millennium's biggest trolls

[pulsar cairn]

the emperor`s children do the same

but we do know they are fucking with us

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj2I1sE8ZlM

[sinful merlin]

Yea sometime last year, going to probably become very hard to find soon since I imagine the standalone firebrand is going to run for around the same price as the full kit 😔

I found one second hand and grabbed it as soon as I noticed it was gone since I absolutely love the models, working on de-chaosifying them and turning them into catachan proxies :)

[jaunty dawn]

they did go last chance to buy at one point and I panic bought them then

but then they came back in stock

but now they're just gone entirely

[rocky shale]

Im tempted to get the one with the 10 terminators just to have a baseline pile of csm that I can use to fill out whatever daemon-engine themed vashtorr detachment comes in the codex

I dont care much for most of csm but the daemon engines just hit right

[floral herald]

The daemon engines are great

And chaos termies are good ass termies

[rocky shale]

I currently have a few csm models from the eldritch omens box and the forgefiend is amazing

Love that little guy

[peak olive]

All is dust

[compact gate]

managed to snag a second elimination maniple for a crisp 140 bucks minus cawl

who i already have

[jaunty dawn]

grats!

[compact gate]

working on the kastelans now

[runic swallow]

Would a floppy $140 have sufficed?

[past sphinx]

Until we get a loyalist sided alpha legion book in 40k yeah probably

They did completely retcon Alpharius into the precrusade not long ago tho

[desert jay]

There are like a thousand loyalist chapters, how do you know a few aren't fronts for Alpha Legion?

[compact gate]

given how trazyn was mistaken for a space marine, i doubt it'd be hard for the AL to just straight up take over an officially sanctioned chapter for a millenia or two

[desert jay]

Or just make up one, they already have trouble keeping track

"What about the tithe?" Shh details

[past sphinx]

Hey whats your founding? uhhh the lost & founding

[desert jay]

Pick a number between 5 and 20, you're fine

[jaunty dawn]

the ultramarines (re)invented combined arms and then wrote a book saying no one was allowed to do it ever again

[uneven ember]

It's not like half the canon Chapters in the game don't have a Legion/Founding history of "i forgor 🤷"

[runic swallow]

Some are even “hey, stfu, why you even asking, maybe I should be asking you, huh?!”

[uneven ember]

& then everyone just goes right to "secret Traitor Legion" when honestly "no one knows" is just funnier.

Except Silver Skulls, they should absolutely be Iron Warrior loyalists because it's so goddamn blatant

[jaunty dawn]

covenant of fire are similar

like literally the same heraldry

as a traitor legion

[runic swallow]

The funnier option would be “they know, but they got in a really dumb argument leading to the split and don’t wanna admit they’re related”

[solemn gull]

I mean cut those poor adepts a break, they found some decals and iconography thingamabobs that were astares sized and also had been taking up valuable storage space for a couple millennia! Of course they tried to get them out of the warehouse

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah okay some of the Ultima dudes, that works too.
BobbyG just like "....Caaaawl?"
"Yeeeees?"
"Whose Geneseed are these guys?"
"...Salamanders?"

[solemn gull]

The imperium is amazing at shooting themselves in the foot

[thin ibex]

You know what would be kind of neat, more single use rocket launchers on infantry

So instead of a legionary who is THE rocket guy and he had to leave his bolter on the ship, he's got an AT weapon and then otherwise still has his bolter. Then havocs would have like the dedicated rocket guy, perse

I guess it's not really a thing for sm

But could totally be a thing for guard

[runic swallow]

Honestly I kinda like that the Guard has only just now got up to the late 60s in terms of equipment, and while single use launchers were around since wwii, it feels a bit too recent do tech to go in the guard’s hands if that somehow makes sense

[valid brook]

I think it depends on where your aesthetic’s at; there’s guard and there’s guard.

Not a good fit for the new Cadians, perfect vibe for Elysians

[brittle salmon]

Anyone else find it weird the Tau codex only got 3 new detachments?

I'm fairly sure that's the lowest of any 'dex so far for a full faction

[south axle]

I think it might in part be that they didn't have any ideas for any other as Tau units are kinda focused

[mental birch]

Ye

[desert jay]

Could’ve done an armored vehicle and transport focus, Hammerheads and Devilfish et al

[jaunty dawn]

they have substantially more places to go than custodes at least

[south axle]

Would have been nice, but didn't they axe Longstrike?

[desert jay]

Yeah well… you don’t really need named characters to have a detachment

Heck the Necrons have a Monolith detachment, that’s literally a 1-unit focus even if that unit makes a good centerpiece

[jaunty dawn]

I think you can make the argument they didn't want to overly focus in on specific unit types so you're encouraged to take a balanced force?

but then they made retaliation cadre so

not really

[desert jay]

Eh, I guess?

Like Tau have 2 generalist detachments already instead of most armies… 1

(They also have enough flyers to potentially make an air support detachment but GW hates flyers RN)

[jaunty dawn]

that's kinda what I mean

like tau is an army designed theoretically for every piece to have its place

more so than other factions imo

so I think the fact that their two main detachments support general strategies rather than specfic skews is cool

and I can see not wanting to overshadow that philosophy with 4 skew detachments additional to that

even retaliation cadre really, since you can still get most aspects of the tau army setup using battlesuits alone

I think the main thing I would've liked to see is also having a more co-operative auxiliaries detachment

[south axle]

Kroot skew-tachment is nice as they had a lot of support in early editions and then they became kinda useless so it's inclusion is just nice fan service

[jaunty dawn]

the kroot detachment is awesome

[south axle]

I am thinkin' of Kroot army that is 2 20 strong Carnivore with a Flesh and Trail shaper each, 1 unit Farstalkers with a Warshaper, 1-2 Lone Spears, 1 unit rampagers and a Krootox Rider

[desert jay]

I would’ve liked a new auxiliary species for their new units instead of even more Kroot

[jaunty dawn]

kroot refresh has been a long time coming

and I think there's value in having an auxiliary that isn't a one note unit

especially given the position kroot hold in the lore

I am not biased at all xP

there definitely should be more auxiliary units though

[desert jay]

That's true, a refresh of existing kroot stuff was definitely needed

[jaunty dawn]

new vespid models would be so cool too

just in terms of modern sculpting n technology

[south axle]

What other species are there among the Tau Auxilia besides Kroot, Vespid and Human?

[jaunty dawn]

a bunch

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau_Auxiliaries

[south axle]

We have Bird, Bug and Monkey/Ape so far, what fun base would ya'll want to see

[jaunty dawn]

a lot of it is just one passage mentions ofc

[tired cairn]

T'au don't have a transport focused detachment? That's pretty surprising

Devilfish plus breachers is pretty iconic

[south axle]

Who here want Greet minis?

[jaunty dawn]

it's part of kayuon

[tired cairn]

True I suppose

[pulsar cairn]

ya mean the Alpharius primarch book?

[desert jay]

The Vorgh have the best one-passage mention which is like "peaceful unless angered, can fight a Knight in hand-to-hand"

[pulsar cairn]

Hi tech

[jaunty dawn]

a few of these actually had spaceships in bfg too

[pulsar cairn]

[south axle]

Nicassar could be a fun addition if they want to give Tau some psykers

Psychic Bears to be more precise

[jaunty dawn]

brachyura are tiny little crabs that help the earth caste build things

[south axle]

But considering how Tau started slaughtering auxiliry species during/post 4th Sphere Expansion having more than 1 Auxilia based Detachment is a bit of a stretch

[tired cairn]

In the 40k universe, is "peaceful unless angered" equivalent to "not peaceful"?

[desert jay]

Sure, but with a sense of moral superiority

[tired cairn]

lmao

[jaunty dawn]

one group of tau

who were censured by the rest of the empire

the fourth sphere were just whacky like that

the fifth sphere essentially entirely replaced them

when the startide nexus stabilised

[south axle]

Yes, but it still happened so having auxiliary species being hesitent to join hands with Tau for a while makes sense

[jaunty dawn]

they don't usually have much of a real choice haha

[desert jay]

Now imagining they made a Gue'vesa detachment with a brood-brothers-esque rule to sell more Guard minis (and anything that lends towards being kitbashed means multiple kits sold per unit)

[south axle]

So arm and head replacement kits for Cadian Shock troops?

[desert jay]

Nah they can buy fire warrior kits to cut up and figure it out themselves :v

[jaunty dawn]

one of the other human helper units in taros campaign was mining crews which included ogryns

which I find a lot more interesting than guardsmen again

[south axle]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/06/make-swiss-cheese-of-the-sigmarite-lickspittles-with-the-new-skaven-jezzails/

[jaunty dawn]

weapons teamsss

warhammer needs more weapons teams in general

just little vignettes

[south axle]

Them not including Range nor To Hit is kinda annoying and weird

[still warren]

Yeah would've liked to see the battlescroll

[south axle]

I can kinda see not giving the entire Scroll, but at least give us the entire weapon profile

But if it is close to AoS3 it will be around 30" and 3+ to hit, which will be 2+ most of the time

And I wouldn't be surprised if it's stats are like a less healthy Warlock Engineer

[jaunty dawn]

might be 24" to match the musket

[south axle]

m6save5+c2h5 on the Engineer

That moment when Jezzails are 36"

As the Engineer's 1/T ability has a 13" range

[mental birch]

Frustratingly retaliation isn't good

😦

Well isn't as good as Montka

Or Kroot

[still warren]

https://youtu.be/dMFdiDhDLis?feature=shared story spoilers obviously but looks like pvp is confirmed like the last game

[unreal cosmos]

I have certainly heard otherwise

[spice flicker]

Turns out the in 1950s, France was insane about nuclear energy and power to the point where they considered nuclear sites as "new cathedrals" of a sort. Not saying they went full on tech priests but for nuclear technology instead of regular technology but....

Techna Lingua sounds a lot like Lingua Franca and nuclear power seems almost like it was a religious experience for 50s France.

[tardy vault]

France's modern nuclear warfare doctrine includes a warning shot

As in, if you're invading them they will launch a nuclear tipped cruise missile at your invasion force as a warning.

[spice flicker]

I mean that's one hell of a warning shot and sounds pretty effective.

[mental birch]

It doesn't support the most powerful offensive unit in the codex

BREACHERS

[thin ibex]

i missed tau talk?

dang

yeah retaliation cadre is the sorta "BATTLESUITS!!!" detach

not the generalized aggression detach

i feel like retaliation cadre is fine tbh, just falls behind monkta and kroot for different reasons

it has some fun interactions and enhancements

shortened blade drop for a fusion crisis team (i forget the names) with a leader that has proto weapon feels like a solid right hook move for 2 cp

fusion guns with str 10 and more AP with rerolls is hefty play

that or the ap 2 flamer set up

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/EaterOfBrushes/status/1787470728104653084

[unreal cosmos]

Misread that name as something more provocative

[desert jay]

https://fxtwitter.com/ganglemanVA/status/1787490001225154799

[lofty warren]

Hell yeah jezzails

[floral herald]

Lmfao

[ebon forge]

'In his personal collection in the palace BigE has what might be one of the first bowls or plates ever crafted by human tools. For him it "makes the place it all started from". He's counting from the end of the last Ice Age and the discovery of agriculture. '

I like that a lot

[past sphinx]

can you not use boxnaughts in chaos anymore?

wait

chaos boxnaughts are gold as hell

old as hell to

[pastel rampart]

Chaos never got a plastic boxnaught of their own, they had that old 2e metal one for aaaaaaaages.

Helbrute is the replacement, and basically the same thing.

[past sphinx]

makes sense

[desert jay]

There was a Ferrum Infernus Dread in FW resin for a bit tho, had an Imperial Armor datasheet up through 8e

[past sphinx]

it has no big plasma!

i shall weap at the gates of heaven

[pastel rampart]

It has a plasma cannon.

[past sphinx]

and by that i mean a plasma cannon thats half the size of its body

its a pretty big plasma cannon tho

[pastel rampart]

Oh, well I'd just slap on one of the Forgefiend plasma cannons then.

[past sphinx]

very cool very based

i think im going to try to rustle up an old school chaos army

[pastel rampart]

S'what I'm doing with this WoC army.

Most of what I got is old 5e/6e models. Chaos hounds and the manticore notwithstanding, since I ain't shelling for metal hounds and the manticore I just had lyin' around.

Plus uh, hard to beat 10 plastic hounds for $15.

Speaking of, assembled an old daemon prince.

[uneven ember]

oh shit
stylin

[pastel rampart]

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/daemon-prices-1997-painted-trish-morrison.jpg They don't make'em like this anymore.

[past sphinx]

my man needs a sports bra bad, like the new culuxus assassin

[pastel rampart]

Interchangeable parts! Granted it was just these two, I think, but they were also roughly to scale with the metal greater daemons at the time so you had a decent amount of parts available.

[jaunty dawn]

I need to get around to finishing my daemon prince

I just wanna give him more of a mane

coming off the 'khorne' head

[pastel rampart]

https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/the-legend-of-zelda-hd/2/26/MB_Lynel.jpg?width=1280

I could see it with this sorta huge mane.

[jaunty dawn]

that's the vibe at least

kinda going for an undivided prince by way of just being a big beastman really

[pastel rampart]

Kinda what I'm going for too.

Well, undivided and kinda beastly but by way of classic gothic gargoyle. Ish.

[jaunty dawn]

nice!

[pastel rampart]

Entire WoC army (well okay it's havoc warriors for OPR) is undivided, but I might do small aligned detachments.

If I can find a bunch of daemon princes for cheap I might do one for each chaos god for kicks.

[jaunty dawn]

dark council

[pastel rampart]

Hell yeah that's the idea

[jaunty dawn]

my daemon prince's deal (when he's not subbing in aos anyway) is he's a son of an ancient witch, who my word bearers are big fans of.

I'm kinda undecided whether he's actual daemon prince (and got her son princedom because she knows better than to accept it herself) or just crazy juiced with sorcerous pacts

and probably they'll hang out with a squad of fellgor who are also her 'sons'

for kicks

[pastel rampart]

I like the idea of him being the son who got daemon'd and is unusually subservient to the witch despite his status.

[jaunty dawn]

yeah!

the witch is my lore for the mibyllor darkfang model cause I love her

she's pretty beasty herself

[pastel rampart]

...hmmm, Yndrasta as a slaaneshi prince is an idea.

[jaunty dawn]

could be big!

[pastel rampart]

On the same size base, looks like.

https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120218064_SCEThunderstrikeCommandLead.jpg?fm=webp&w=920&h=948

okay yeah not that big actually, around the same body size as a stormcast.

SC comes up to about chest-height on that OG prince.

[jaunty dawn]

haha nice

[pastel rampart]

Won't be getting one for that purpose but, good to know.

https://vxtwitter.com/jetblackraider/status/1787615021306183704

[jaunty dawn]

pink kryptonite?

[past sphinx]

turns you gay

[peak olive]

Or swaps your gender

Depends on the continuity

[uneven ember]

(comics, everybody!)

[peak olive]

Actually the gender swap one was in animated show

[spice flicker]

About to do a test game of my 1k Mechanized guard vs 1k tau in tabletop Simulator, any bets on winners?

[quaint compass]

Though I don't know the force, I wanna say guard simply because they'll probably have enough bodies and tough vehicles to score

[zinc field]

In the 41st millennium, they are not all good dogs

[quaint compass]

That's a REAL good dog!

[zinc field]

The war dog head was actually the easiest head to fit leds I’ve found so far

[spice flicker]

A force centered around Chimeras, and infantry squads carrying lascannons vs a taskforce with 2x6 Stealth suits, double ion riptides, and double broadsides.

[mental birch]

Final pose gonna start painting tonight 🙂

[upper canopy]

Broke: Makima in 40k would be a Sorcerer/Daemon/Whatever because psychic blah blah blah blah
Woke: Makima in 40k would be a Chaos Knight pilot because she'd be able to manipulate a squadron of goons by calling them "Good Dog"

[spice flicker]

Nah Makima would be a great daemon of the Imperium, Chaos Undivided, or the Daemon representing the fear of the Inquisition while disguised as a radical ordo Malleus inquisitor

[floral herald]

Evening project, fully magnetized aspiring champion

[thin ibex]

Made a narrative sw list, was a little lost on how I'd want to fill the spare points so I ended up with a wolf guard drop pod

[storm schooner]

Wolf guard in a drop pod are decent I think, gets them into combat quicker and means that their combi's are in rapid fire straight away

[mental birch]

Doesn't sadly

Well not as fast as you think

You can't charge out of a drop pod

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, the marines podding in count as disembarking from a moving transport that turn

So no charging

[thin ibex]

Gets them into a position faster for shooting and you can use the pod as a wall, generally

Big combi bolter volley can definitely still do work, shooting at 3+, at least

[thin ibex]

Though let's be honest, it's a thunderhawk list that also has a long fang squad with 4 different heavy weapons. Competitiveness has a backseat xD

Side note iirc they nerfed the stormraven cause people were using it to good effect, which is a bit funny cause I was making thematic lists with them like a month back from that thinking I was making "for fun" lists with "all fliers are bad"

[pulsar cairn]

the men of iron were never a playable faction were they?

is it men or man?

english confuses me

[thin ibex]

Men, and no they were never a playable faction as far as I know. More like pre-40k world building lore

As to why the Imperium doesn't use AI (there is probably a bit of an intentional ? Next to Machine Spirits of course)

[brittle salmon]

Yeah the Men of Iron are part background lore, part scary boogeyman that's occasionally dredged up in modern 40k

[pulsar cairn]

i see i mean, not everything needs to be faction, somethings staying as lore and lore only works

but dang i feel like it would be a cool thing to play

[brittle salmon]

In the Warhammer Quest: Blackstone Fortress boardgame, one of the playable units is UR-025, a Man of Iron that's survived by sticking to fringe space and disguised as an imperial battle automata

[pulsar cairn]

i know about that one!

they are basically the last of their kind, or at least that they knows of

[thin ibex]

men of iron are also a strong dune reference imo

and were effectively the same worldbuilding tool to shape why ai and computers arent really used in that universe

[spice flicker]

I'm kinda liking the new alpha legion inspired detachment.

[thin ibex]

oh is csm stuff dropping

sick

are those both for the same detach?

[spice flicker]

Renegade raiders is a separate Detachment

[thin ibex]

i like it, infiltrating legionnaires or massive cult blobs could be very useful

[spice flicker]

But if I am reading deceptors right, in a 2k game you can just throw 3 cultists blobs and 3 legionnaires squads into no man's land at the start of the battle. Just casually claim 2/3rds of the board as your deployment zone

[thin ibex]

im thinking about max size cult blobs with the cult leader unit attached

makes them annoyingly resilient blobs that can be a massive road block

[spice flicker]

Does CSM have any units with natural infiltrators keyword?

[thin ibex]

none come to mind but surely they do and i just dont remember?

I do love the idea of having cultists and legionaries in every building

Though the ability is a lot less useful when the enemy also has infiltrators right? Cause they can't deploy within 9" of each other in no man's land?

[spice flicker]

If you give a squad of legionnaires infiltrators and put them in say a land raider can you then infiltrate the land raider?

[jaunty dawn]

no

i also think its probably up to x units in any combination not up to x each

[spice flicker]

Ah I see

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/BoLSNEWS/status/1787800057586000344

[pulsar cairn]

Could you field an all squig army?

[junior robin]

finally, black dragons primaris lieutenant

[junior robin]

I think you could if you count in goblins riding squigs? 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

other people are also reading it as up to x each but I honestly dont see it

[pulsar cairn]

[thin ibex]

im suspecting maybe not, as it says and rather than or; which is also why its limited to just legionaries and cultists rather than any advanced units

which contrasts with vanguard detach on sm's enhancement ability to infil any 1 infantry unit with a character a bit

[jaunty dawn]

I think itd be 1/2/3 if it was each

at the very least

oh wait no

my brain was just entirely glazing over the fact theres two columns lmao

thsts wild

[thin ibex]

right?

strong map control, especially if the enemy isn ot making use of infil

[jaunty dawn]

and like good overall cause I dont think itd be worth using slots on cultists otherwise

[upper bluff]

Infiltrating a 20 man cultist blob seems ridiculous

[thin ibex]

a bit balanced by the deployment bubbles and enemy infil, but still super strong

anti horde gonna make a big comeback between tau, orks, and csm

[upper bluff]

We can only hope

[thin ibex]

gladiator reapers and punsiher lemans here we come

and maybe even predator destructors

(im a big fan of pred destructors, something about the big autocannon vibes for me)

[jaunty dawn]

...not sure if dark communes work

they both happen in declare battle formations

so I think you can join the dark commune to the unit before the entire unit is given infiltrate

oh wait

it explicitly says characters too

reading comprehension penny

funny that it doesnt apply to epic heroes

[unreal cosmos]

Very Alpha Legion to go "btw there are a thousand mortal agents in your base"

[plucky token]

They’re in your base, killing ur doods

[thin ibex]

we're also gonna see, i bet, big horde v horde lists

which ill be interesting

just a monster mash of like 2 blocks of like 20-30 dudes

[thin ibex]

I might roll up some fun "horde smasher" lists

[desert jay]

So we got...

• Deceptors (Alpha Legion)
• Renegade Raiders (Red Corsairs)
• Chaos Cult (mortals)
• Packbound Zealots (Word Bearers)
• Vets of the Long War (Black Legion)
• Fell-hammer Siege Host (Iron Warriors)
• Dread Talons (Night Lords)
• Soulforged Warpack (Vashtorr)

It's kinda funny that the Iron Warriors vs Imperial Fists rivalry, one's hammer and one's anvil

[floral herald]

what the heck are these haha

how the fuck does Black Crusade work?

Does it turn off part way through a to-wound phase?

I also love how the Black Legion keeps inexplicably getting a love for flamers in their rules

[upper canopy]

I feel like

It's "if you've dealt 5 or less and you activate this ability, you're good"

[floral herald]

Yeah but you activate it in the movement phase

I'm not sure when you'd have had the opportunity to do 6 wounds that turn by then

And its only for boltery weapons so its not like you could use it up in the shooting phase and be locked out for melee

[upper canopy]

Overwatch?

[floral herald]

Yeah that's the only way I think

Wait its per turn

oh wait

its just

fuck GW writers why

... It's just "this ability only generates up to 6 mortal wounds" ffs

[upper canopy]

oh

[floral herald]

It's especially funny given that I think you need like 10stacks of terminators shooting combi bolters to reliably hit the cap

[desert jay]

So just a safety valve to keep the synergies from going too hard

[floral herald]

Yeah

If I had to guess its GW remembering the specter of 9e buff stacking slaanesh termies

[quaint compass]

And the very powerful combo for Deathwatch Index

[spice flicker]

Now I kinda want to make a new 1k csm list for crusade purposes built around the new AL Detachment. To go purely infantry or not to go pure infantry with that idea...

[floral herald]

With how cheap legionaries are manspam is probably a decent strategy

Legionaries are a little low-punch outside of MSU though

[spice flicker]

Also with how cheap havocs and raptors have gotten

[floral herald]

Oh yeah I love the cheap havocs

[spice flicker]

Can a 10 man legionnare squad still only take 1 heavy weapon or 2?

[floral herald]

They're a cool unit even if I wish they could take ablative wounds bolter bros

[floral herald]

they get 2 special or heavy weapons at 10

But a 5 man Legionary squad gets for shooting

• plasma pistol
• special/heavy weapon
• balefire tome
• 1 bolters
  and in melee has
• Asp. Champ. weapon
• heavy melee weapon
• 3 chainswords/CCWs
  and you don't get that much more oomph for adding 5 more guys

But you do get more wounds to shield the special weapons and such

[spice flicker]

Only 925 right now but....

Prototype alpha legion

Sorcerer, MoT, Warlord
Dark commune, MoCU

2x20, cultists, 2 heavy stubbers, 2 flamers, two grenade launchers, MoCU
2x10 legionnaires, 2 heavy melee weapon (one on champ), 3 chainswords, 3 bolters, lascannon, missile launcher, MoCU

5x havocs, lascannons, MoCU
5x raptors, melta gun, 2 plasma pistol, MoCU

3x bikers, power fist on champ, melta guns on others

Likely decide later if go melee or ranged focused on legionnaries as this is still a WIP. Also MoCU is Mark of Chaos Undivided

Might swap out bikes but then I'd be 10 points over if I add a 3rd 10 man legionnaire squad to cover home objective. Alternatively I could go with a 5 man squad but would then have to figure out what to do with 70 points.

Alternatively I could lose the raptors and bikes in exchange for a squad of terminators and 10 man block of cultists. What do you think?

[floral herald]

I think raptors and bikes are more alpha legiony

[spice flicker]

What do you suggest for the other 75 points then?

[floral herald]

That's an annoying amount

[spice flicker]

Another trio of bikes with melta? Squad of traitor guards?

[floral herald]

Both of those sound pretty good

I like random spawns but they're not super competitive

[spice flicker]

I might go with traitor guards since they can babysit the home objective and have a trio of flamers, melta guns, plasma guns, sniper rifles, or grenade launchers.

[floral herald]

Traitor guards are a good mid/backline objective squad yeah

[spice flicker]

When moving to 1500 I might invest in more bikes, havocs, raptors, and/or legionnaires

[floral herald]

cheap and credible at shooting

[spice flicker]

Also traitor guards do get cover when on an objective

Wish I could give them a lascannon

Focus on range or melee for the legionnaires?

[thin ibex]

is chaos cult the new name for slaves to darkness?

[spice flicker]

I think so

[floral herald]

No they're the mortals buffs one

[spice flicker]

Or pack bound zealots

[floral herald]

Super-pacts for non-CSM

(Damned is the keyword for cultists and beastmen and mutants and such aiui)

[spice flicker]

Vets of the long war or pactbound zealots are the new name I think.

[thin ibex]

huh so slaves to darkness is going goodbye or sticking around?

the pacts thing is a chaos core rule right?

[floral herald]

Pactbound Zealots is the new name for Slaves to Darkness

Word Bearers themed one

[thin ibex]

ahhh ok

neat

i thought they were the black legion one tbh, but i guess veterans of hte long war now fits better

[spice flicker]

Now I don't know if I want to go with alpha legion infantry spam, Mechanized imperial Guard focused on Chimera and sentinels, or the drukhari taskforce escorting the tantalus.

[thin ibex]

my vote is guard

cause i like mechanized lists

[south axle]

I vote Drukhari, cuz I love the Tantalus model

[tired cairn]

I am not a fan of the all the "Heretic Astartes from your army (excluding X units)"

[jaunty dawn]

they really should have just had a space marine keyword really

given thats. what astartes minus damned means

[rocky shale]

I like the no-tzeentch rule that exists soley so you can't take rubrics and get 60 flamer attacks

[jaunty dawn]

plague marines get a flamer right

but also sad cause the 9thed let the galaxy burn did work with rubrics and it was glorious

(it was +2 hits)

which is on average 0.5 less hits but spike potential

[floral herald]

That one is so funny

Rubricae need not apply

[jaunty dawn]

10 model plague marine squad gets 4 torrent weapons!

they're poison weapons too

now I'm just imagining what black legion scheme death guard even looks like

...

pretty cool actually

[pulsar cairn]

indeed

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/bysszp/plague_marine_of_the_black_legion/ source

[pulsar cairn]

a while back i was wondering the same thing for berserkers

and they look pretty cool too

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/1128689-Blackstone Fortress: No Respite Plague Marines.html

[rocky shale]

Guaranteed 24 attacks with anti-infantry is potentially pretty spicy

2 of them 2+ ap-1 and 2 of them 4+ ap-0

[spice flicker]

I guess Abby is now an honorary Death Guard since that strategem has great synergy with the plague marines' plague spewers. 24 auto hits with 12 auto wounding infantry on a 2+ with -1 ap while the other's auto wound on a 4+ with no ap

Same points cost as regular legionnaires too

Can still also take 5 bolt guns to also take advantage of black crusade strategem.

[pulsar cairn]

he does get blessings from every chaos gods...

so i would say that at the very least abby doesnt wash his hands

[spice flicker]

I think he is labeled as Undivided now

[floral herald]

Yeah though we’re not sure what that means yet

Beyond likely having less synergy with the Pactbound Zealots one

[spice flicker]

I hope the alpha legion inspired detachment has an enhancement that gives you free redeploy or one that allows you to gain lone operative on a character. If they somehow bring back "I am Alpharius" I would be ecstatic.

[desert jay]

TBF the Death Guard models slap so hard they'll probably look good in any coherent color scheme

[rocky shale]

The plague marine ability is kinda meh but that much shooting might be solid

[spice flicker]

That one shenanigans where you can just always say that some other character in your army was actually your warlord instead of the guy who just got killed.

[pulsar cairn]

Are chaos undivided people less deranged or just abby btw?

[obsidian flume]

Varies

Even some God devoted people are less crazy

It just depends on who your interacting with

[floral herald]

I think undivided people tend towards the extremes a little more

[pulsar cairn]

do they?

[floral herald]

Whether that’s relatively cool headed like Abby or Advanced Derangement like Erebus

[pulsar cairn]

Oh yeah

I forgot about the word bearers

[spice flicker]

The official Undivided legions are: WB. IW, AL, NL, BL

[pulsar cairn]

and 3 of those arent big fans of demons and stuff

[spice flicker]

I mean NL are more renegades than loyal to chaos, AL have confusing loyalties but also seem to suffer from too complex plans, IW see their alliance to chaos as a sunk cost fallacy and just keep going anyway and to screw over daemons by forcing them into daemon engines. WB and BL are the only "Undivided" legions I say are actually loyal to chaos and use daemons and everything else chaos offers with noted frequency.

[pulsar cairn]

i feel like the alpha legion does have some loyal peeps still, but also lots of traitors in there

main difference between Black legion and Word bearers is their purpose i would say

[spice flicker]

WB are devoted to the cause of Chaos while BL are just being opportunistic and using Chaos to their advantage.

Difference between someone joining a cause due to believing in it vs joining for the benefits.

[pastel rampart]

Word Bearers are the Swifties of chaos, in this essay I will

[spice flicker]

I know you're joking but I know some swiftes and the similarities are uncanny now that I think about it.

[pastel rampart]

Who said I was joking

[pulsar cairn]

i like your hat slim

[spice flicker]

At 95 points are psychophages worth taking now with nids?

[thin ibex]

Personally I like em for the aura

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/gyro-zeppeli-pizza-pizza-mozarella-gyro-zeppel-gif-22484832

[thin ibex]

Stacked with the zoanthropes

And maybe the venomthropes

To get a bunch of aoe defensive boosts

[jaunty dawn]

the aura is the big thing abt them yeah

[spice flicker]

Thinking about redesigning my 1k tyranids list and was reminded of them and was curious.

[jaunty dawn]

they're extra neat in harvester

[spice flicker]

Synaptic nexus and endless swarm are the detachments I am debating between.

Really wish zoans could bodyguard the neurotyrant

[jaunty dawn]

...that would make sense yeah

probably would have to revamp it's buffs though

and I guess it kinda clashes with the neurothrope

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... to go swarm or to go nexus?

[tired cairn]

Do you have to paint more little bugs for the swarm. And do you have movement trays?

[tired cairn]

The neurothrope ability is almost nonexistent. Something is going to end poorly for the zoanthropes if they are that close lol

[jaunty dawn]

I mean aesthetically

it's weird to have two super zoanthropes in the same unit

[thin ibex]

What was the neurothrope ability?

[jaunty dawn]

it still has the ability to regain wounds when stuff dies nearby

sorry gets battleshocked nearby now

[tired cairn]

It's when they fail a battleshock within 6"

It does do daamage I guess

[jaunty dawn]

the original

kinda wild

[thin ibex]

a thing i like to do with endles swarm lists is bring the defensive aura monsters along with big blocks of gaunts

the enemy focuses the big monsters, meaning your gaunts dont get hit, or they focus the gaunts, who have enhances defenses and free movement when shot

[floral herald]

I never saw DoM back in 5e

[thin ibex]

fun lore, except that it feels like after absorbing an entire craftworld itd be a "this is too strong to really, reasonably, field in a normal game" type deal

[jaunty dawn]

well it kinda has the thing where tyranid secial characters aren't necessarily and individual unique organism

[floral herald]

Yeah they’re just Super Zoanthropes named for the greatest of their kind

[thin ibex]

thats fair, the OG feels like it'd like

just nope most tarets on the field

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

if you wanted to play the og you'd probably have to make a scenario of it

[floral herald]

That version is pretty wild if it gets going though tbf

10 wounds is a lot in 5e

[pastel rampart]

Immune to instant death too.

[floral herald]

T4 with a 4++ isn’t great but that’s the only real issue

[pastel rampart]

Yeah. Has to walk across the field too, unless you could somehow shove it in the deep strike spore things 'nids had.

Actually wasn't Warp Field in 5e a 3+ invuln

[jaunty dawn]

10 wounds is like

possibly the only model in the game to have that

and s10 ap 1 large blast is like

the nastiest a single shot can possibly get

[jaunty dawn]

you could

[floral herald]

Oh, it might have been I don’t remember

[pastel rampart]

Barring anything from Apocalypse, yeah. Maybe a bio-titan or daemon prince.

[jaunty dawn]

it was called a meiotic spore and not a tyrannocyte back then but it was in the main codex in 5e

[floral herald]

I remember not thinking about it that much since I played orks

[jaunty dawn]

warp field is 3++ yup

in 5e at least

[floral herald]

So I just threw mountains of AP- hits haha

[pastel rampart]

"You just got hit with 50 shootas. What's an invuln save gonna do, nerd"

[pastel rampart]

Aaaah right, that was it. Just shove the DoM in there and drop it where it can syphon off a buncha soul-juice and get swole.

[jaunty dawn]

yuppp

course if you wanted to play it you were making models for it and the spore yourself, cause they did not exist hha

or well fw did the mine version of a meiotic spore

[floral herald]

The Doom also didn’t have a model

There were a lot of bugs with no models in 5e

Venomthropes as well

[pastel rampart]

Doom not having a model resulted in some funky lawsuits with Chapter House.

[spice flicker]

Is the parasite of mortex good nowadays?

[jaunty dawn]

uhh

I imagine the competition from lictors and neurolictors is too strong

neurlictor is the same price at this point though

invisible hunter deep strike might be a niche?

really the answer is yes I think cause deep striking lone op action doers is just always good

there's just a lot of competition in tyranids specifically

for that role

[thin ibex]

iirc a lot of named stuff was a points based upgrade to an existing unit right?

like any carnifex could be old one eye

you just paid points and boom, old one eye

[floral herald]

No they were mostly their own units

[jaunty dawn]

uh not that I remember

in 5e orks the named special dudes were an upgrade to their squad they're a special dude for

ie zagstruk in stormboyz and snikrot in kommandoz

but that was very much an outlier

[floral herald]

It was nice too since HQ slots were a massive premium in 5e

[jaunty dawn]

true!

[floral herald]

A lot of 5e named characters were also sub factions in disguise

[pastel rampart]

Old One Eye was an original unit but that eventually got folded into a set of mutations that did the same thing.

[floral herald]

Like you played Crimson Fists by taking Pedro Kantor

[jaunty dawn]

he was both!

or as in biomorphs showed up that did the things he did

but he was still around as his own unit

[pastel rampart]

In 4th he didn't have an entry but huh, yeah he did come back for 5th huh

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah