Warhammer and Such

[solemn gull]

I do love the inq28 scene

[upper bluff]

inq28?

[solemn gull]

its hard to explain

[upper bluff]

wonderful answer

I love overly complicated things

[solemn gull]

effectivly just inquisitor ported to the 28mm scale

lot of different ways people have done that

but its become more of a movement

[upper bluff]

How large was the original inquisitor

[solemn gull]

54mm

[upper bluff]

that's pretty big?

[solemn gull]

the inq28 vibe though is more about exploring all the parts of 40k away from the battlefields that the main game would never explore

[upper bluff]

That sounds cool. Is it more of a ttrpg or a wargame?

[solemn gull]

probably better to call it a narrative skirmish game

[upper bluff]

oh damn

So I assume inquisitor 28 would be played with the agents of the imperium models?

[solemn gull]

there were never point costs to the equipment or statlines so you were supposed to kitbash your own inquisitor and their crew of unique agents then stat them as you saw reasonable

[upper bluff]

Oh thats kind of neat

[solemn gull]

yeah I've followed fan projects on it for the past few years

best one though is definitly 28 magazine

[upper bluff]

So is everyone playing inquisitors?

[solemn gull]

its branched out a bit since then

some people make groups of heretics

genestealer cults

[upper bluff]

so the original concept were all just "interdepartment" issues

[solemn gull]

yeah usually

[upper bluff]

Cool that fans have made additional factions

[solemn gull]

it was more a ruleset for you to decide what happens in your fiction

[solemn gull]

they have made entire settings

Gelidia is a cool project I followed for a while

Its also where turnip28 came from

oh wow issue 6 came out and I never noticed

[lucid scarab]

The Grimrichmond inq28 event for example was about a planet infected by a mysterious red chaos plague, people at the event played as the infected chaos worshippers, denizens of the fuedal world the game took place on, and inquisitors come to investigate. They didn’t even use Inquisitor rules for it, but a modified Forbidden Psalm iirc

[solemn gull]

mhmm yeah most people I know use the necromunda rules but so many different rulesets are used

[lucid scarab]

Ya. A lot of people are using OPR for Vastarian rn

That, forbidden psalm/last war, and Necromunda are the main ones

But basically any system works

Ideas before mechanics for the 28 community

[solemn gull]

personally I've been playing some mutant raiders that are pretty easy to slot into any games I join since they are pretty much just frozen mad max raiders

[upper bluff]

Oh that's cool

Maybe one day I'll try to make some Mechanicus Hereteks

[solemn gull]

hell yeah the dark mechanicus are awesome

their designs are already so baroque and creepy

[lucid scarab]

My Inq28 warband is the Xenologer Griz Graxius, made him and the rest of the band for Vastarian at adepticon then only ended up playing one game lol

[solemn gull]

wow I am reading the article on that right now

[lucid scarab]

It’s cool! My guy was visiting to investigate the psychic awakening on the planet that was causing the ruckus to start with, so I didn’t send him in for the competition because he was off-theme, just a visitor, but the Vastarian Open was sick

[solemn gull]

hopefully I'll get to an adepticon game some day

[lucid scarab]

You should. The Gelida guys are really nice if you end up there, since you said you were interested in that project. Their boards are so cool too

Got to watch people play it at least.

[solemn gull]

I have scrounged for every bit of detail on Gelidia across the whole internet

it fascinated me so much

[lucid scarab]

You in the Facebook group?

[solemn gull]

no

[lucid scarab]

You can download the codex from there

And play your own games!

[solemn gull]

I guess I have to get facebook

[lucid scarab]

You could probably also message Magos Buer on instagram and ask him if you don’t have Facebook

He’s the main Gelida guy rn

Also the inquisitor rulebook is sick. Highly recommend checking out a pdf. Some of the RADDEST art in here

I got mine on EBay and it apparently came from the house of a heavy smoker so I’ve been trying to fumigate it, it smells horrendous otherwise I’d show off more

[solemn gull]

LOL

I think that adds to the charm but yeah probably stinks

[lucid scarab]

See id rather it be falling apart. My Mordheim rulebook I got for 45$ and it looks like it survived the actual destruction of Mordheim, but I can still read it.

My inquisitor copy smells bad enough I can’t actually read it without wanting to put it away

[solemn gull]

wow

yeah that sucks

[jaunty dawn]

mm thats no joke

[solemn gull]

oh you are also in the inq28 server

neat

[lucid scarab]

28mag? Ya

[pastel rampart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Libraries/comments/uj6bn8/disgusting_cigarette_smell_in_books_can_anything/ Huh, looks like dryer sheets do the trick

[lucid scarab]

I’ll give it a go. Right now I’ve got it in a tub of baking soda

Dryer sheets will likely be necessary because this thing reeeeeeks

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, stuff a bunch in a big ziplock bag and seal it for a couple of days.

[floral herald]

What is it like cigarette smoke?

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

[lucid scarab]

Yep. Immensely disgusting

[pastel rampart]

Apparently putting it in a box full of cedar shavings can also do the trick.

[lucid scarab]

It’s like tobacco but been sitting in it for 20 years or something

Buying some dryer sheets. just won a bid for a 3rd edition Nid codex on eBay so I might need more depending LOL

[uneven ember]

Just to chime in here a bit: the idea as written, yeah, was that everyone was playing as an Inquisitor and their band, so the fight would usually be between puritans and radicals.
And since an Inquisitor is allowed to make use of just about anything without anyone except another Inquisitor saying 'boo' about it you could have anything from Ministorium Arco-flagellants to daemon swords to space marines
& since it was really the only thing at the time focused on the Imperium away from the front lines, for a while it was the best place for "what are some of the Imperium's different political factions" or "what are the rules for a servo-skull" or "so what is the deal with the creepy flying babies"

Also the Eisenhorn trilogy was Inquisitor tie-in fiction, not general 40K setting fiction as some people assume these days

[desert jay]

Perfect place for playing the weird radicals

[uneven ember]

also it introduced the Istvanians, who are Inquisitors all about those "hard times make strong men" memes, so they've decided that that the Grim Darkness of the Far Future might need them to personally intervene and make sure the Imperium doesn't run out of orks.

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpHdZoY_ktk

Holy fuck

[runic swallow]

I remember the models being sick as hell, mostly due to all the extra detail the scale allows

Also, was Eisenhorn written concurrent with the game being developed or afterwards?

[uneven ember]

would've come out right around the same time

[lucid scarab]

Probably concurrently as some of the details do not match up to the Inq54 rulebook

But thats all part of the charm for a 40k series. Two sources that came out at the same time giving variations on what happened

[uneven ember]

looks like both the rules and first novels came out in 2001

[runic swallow]

How so, having not read the rules?

[lucid scarab]

Basically the rules include spoilers for the last book in the Eisenhorn trilogy, but the details are different

||also Cherubial, the Demonhost that Eisenhorn created is implied to have been used a LOT by Eisenhorn in the INQ54 rulebook, where we really only know for sure that they worked alongside each other in the final duel between him an Quixos. Eisenhorn explicitly says multiple times that he keeps Cherubial locked in a dungeon||

slight edit

[runic swallow]

I know that there are a few short stories where he makes use of him

[lucid scarab]

That makes sense.

Its actually preferable to me that they're inconsistent personally. I love it when 40k fluff does that

[runic swallow]

I guess it doesn’t seem out of keeping with what I got from the books

[lucid scarab]

There are other details

I can get the page real quick

[runic swallow]

Cool

[lucid scarab]

ill brave the smelly book

[desert jay]

Introducing Orks to Krieg as a conservation effort

[quaint compass]

For enrichment

[lucid scarab]

Alright disgusting delve done, ||the main things are overstating Eisenhorns power level as a psyker, hes explicitly pretty weak without the staff in the books, INQ54 states hes a powerful pysker, and the details about killing Quixos are much vaguer, hes supposed to have been killed by 5 inquisitors working with eisenhorn, but as you know thats not how it happened in the book. Also there isn't anything about Quixos disappearing entirely for like a century or two if I read it correctly, he kills another inquisitior then just sorta keeps on keeping on in the INQ54 fluff ||

[uneven ember]

but yeah I'm glad GW is a bit more willing to mess around with the specialist games equivalents
(even if I am bitter about AI)

[lucid scarab]

The best part about 40k fluff is that, really, both books are probably not really exactly what happened. This one is some abbreviated munitorum report, Eisenhorn is some-what misremembered memoir.

[uneven ember]

I got started with Necromunda and Mordheim & I gotta say that was a much easier onramp into the hobby than going right into a 40K army.

& for the people who are already into the main games, it's a good way for some variance without going all-in on another army

[runic swallow]

Skirmish stuff is also great because it really gets you attached to your Little Guys

[uneven ember]

ya

[lucid scarab]

They're just better games if you want to play with a narrative. Horrible balance, don't try to metagame.

Warcry and Killteam are much better for that. Even N17 breaks down if you have people trying to push the limits.

[uneven ember]

I've seen some speculation about a Battlefleet Gothic revival

[lucid scarab]

That'd be neat. Its got a pretty big online community still. Alongside Epic (all five variants lol)

[uneven ember]

it was just fun

[runic swallow]

If you want to try a game kinda like it, there’s Dropfleet Commander, but I’m not sure if that’s dead or not, since it seems like they’re still selling minis on the website but I’ve heard that the game has had Issues of some kind

[uneven ember]

I love the Imperial Space-Navy. I love the cathedral-trireme look.
I love the way they go your spaceships aren't to scale, they're just a little dot in the middle of the flying base stem, with the base representing a range that might actually effect the ship, because the distances and scales of space combat are generally just unthinkably vast" but also "Imperial Navy ships can purchase a power ram as an upgrade"

also "space is three-dimensional, but your tabletop isn't. We could make rules to represent this, but they'd mostly be more complicated than they would be fun, so we didn't. Don't worry about it."

[uneven ember]

ohh, does it? I'd kinda heard of it, but not really anything about it.

[lucid scarab]

Have you played Billion Suns? Similar vibe

[uneven ember]

I have not!

[lucid scarab]

I like how that game deals with inertia and thrust

[uneven ember]

Huh, by the guy who wrote Gaslands? Interesting!

[lucid scarab]

Yup! The fluff is like you control a hyper-capitalist fleet of vessels which have to fight other corporations over contracts

It honestly reminds me of Vernor Vinges A Deepness in the sky

But it’s very setting agnostic

[runic swallow]

It has neat stuff like the “signature” of your ship determining how easy you are to shoot at, which can be effected by how fast you’re going, also has rules for fighting in various orbital layers (basically who can shoot at who and how long you have before you rip apart in atmosphere from an engine failure), flights of fighters/bombers and torpedos, rules representing CIWS (including one faction having a ship that’s Oops All CIWS)

It’s very neat from what little I played

Also, it’s generally based around getting troops deployed planet side, like you’re trying to do or repel an invasion force

[uneven ember]

I will definitely check out both.
Space fleet battles are always good fun

[floral herald]

BFG is really neat but it’s sort of annoying how you just need to look up fan-rules these days

And how it was sort of unbalanced for a lot of its history

But I guess that happens a lot to older games which don’t get patches

[runic swallow]

Weren’t Necrons basically intentionally busted?

[floral herald]

Yeah they were super busted but had their own scoring rules which meant they could clean your clock but lose

[runic swallow]

Oh yeah?

[uneven ember]

Yeah entirely possible for Necrons to get tabled table their opponent but still lose.

[floral herald]

Basically if you actually hard-killed their capitol ships (which was very hard) they were worth like 400%

The game was better balanced by the time they released though

The core book probably had the most slanted ones since orks just sort of sucked until later supplements and Eldar pirates had such weird playstyles that if you brought the wrong fleet you just lost

[runic swallow]

Didn’t the Eldar have solar sails that had to account for which way the sun was, or is that made up?

[floral herald]

That’s real

[uneven ember]

It's not! Eldar ships move faster with the sun at their back.

[floral herald]

They also had a unique kind of shields which made interacting with them really weird

[uneven ember]

It's so stupid and I love it so much.

& yeah, most people's shields just absorbed a certain amount of hits. (Including Tyranids, who use spore clouds as ablaitive shields)
Eldar had holofields that either gave the person shooting them a penalty or gave them a save.
& Necrons had no shields but had a save against damage.

[floral herald]

Holofields did a lot of things

But basically meant that only strike craft and normal gunnery and I guess siege cannons were very good vs them

But things like torpedos and lances and other weapons which attacked directly were very bad

[uneven ember]

yeah
"you're shooting the wrong place, loser"

[uneven ember]

did think it was kinda neat that Orks and Eldar match up against themselves so badly.
Orks are all high armor and gunnery, and Eldar are all lances that barely work on Eldar

[unreal cosmos]

Okay so, I saw a post about using Escher heads for Custodes because they fit the scale better, but I'm not certain if I like or dislike the hair and overall aesthetic. On one hand it's much less regal and businesslike than Custodes are usually depicted, but on the other hand they have their roots in the Unification Wars.

https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99550599023_EscherHeadsUpgrade01.jpg?fm=webp&w=920&h=948 Some of these might fit better than others, idk

[solemn gull]

Personal bias but I would recommend the Orlock female heads. They are a bit less extravagant.

[pastel rampart]

Female stormcast heads if you can source them work well too.

[floral herald]

I’ve heard stormcast heads are too small

Idk if that’s true though

[uneven ember]

Escher are not the vibe I would go with for Custodes but they are a vibe for sure

[jaunty dawn]

stormcast heads are smaller than marine heads

and I think custodes are closer to marine scale than anything

this is my libby using evocator parts

[pastel rampart]

Custodes are marine-scale as their line came out before Primaris.

[jaunty dawn]

its less that stormcast are small really more that the proportions dont match the 'heroic' heads

[pastel rampart]

True.

[jaunty dawn]

these are just

thick

orlocks are about the same as a modern cadian I think

and I dont really think escher are that different? they are super tall though and also maybe the hair just gives them the volume to make it work

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this 1k admech list and what Detachment might work best with it?

Tech priest dominus, warlord, phosphor serpenta, eradication ray
Skirarii Marshal
2x cybernetica datasmith

1x10 skitarii rangers, arc rifle, omnispex, transauric arquebaus
2x10 skitarii Vanguard, arc rifle, omnispex

1x3 kataphron destroyers, heavy grav cannon, phosphor blaster

1x2 ironstrider ballistari, lascannons
2x2 kastelan robots, phosphor blaster, kastellan fists, incendine combuster

985/1000 points

[jaunty dawn]

probly hunter cohort

yeah. not really enough robots and especially no vehicles for cohort cybernetica

[upper bluff]

Absolutely hunter cohort

Personally I think you have too many Skitarii

Also sadly breachers are just better than destroyers because rerolling to hit is actually just as good in overwatch

2 units of Kastellans are good though

Skitarii are only good for objectives really

[spice flicker]

Sorry there was a typo and the rangers were only supposed to be 1x10 not 1x20

[spice flicker]

I agree but don't have the points unfortunately.

Since this is for crusade how do you guys feels about the secutarii hoplites/peltasts?

[jaunty dawn]

secutarii are awesome

[spice flicker]

Since this is crusade with legends being an option, would it be better to utilize them rather than regular skitarii?

[jaunty dawn]

theyre not battleline so theyre not really the same role

[spice flicker]

Hmm....

I'll admit I do like the hoplites quite a bit but hmmm....

[upper bluff]

I've never played with secutarii but the ones with 4+ invuln and melee seem alright

[spice flicker]

They're the hoplites

[upper bluff]

I always just use my vanguard to hold objectives with a Dominus for feel no pain and whatever buffs to invuln I can get so

Having 4+ by default seems good

Oh dang I didn't realize their weapons also had devastating wounds

I knew about the anti vehicle but dev wounds makes it great

[jaunty dawn]

they have haywire lances basically

[spice flicker]

Hmmm how about this for 1500?

Tech priest dominus (75)
Skirarii Marshal (35)

1x10 skitarii rangers, arquebus, arc rifle, omnispex (80)
3x10 secutari hoplites (130 a piece)
2x10 secutari peltasts (100 a piece)
2x3 kataphron destroyers, heavy grav cannon, phosphor blaster (105 apiece)

2x onager dunecrawler, neutron laser, cognis heavy stubber (130 a piece)
3x skorpius dunerider (taxi for hoplites) (80 a piece)

1490/2000
If this sounds good any idea how to make it work at only 1k so I can work towards this?

[upper bluff]

For one link the kataphrons into 1 unit so you can use overwatch

Then I think just remove some secutarii and duneriders also maybe a dunecrawler

I'd probably cut the pletasts before the hoplites just because of the invuln and anti vehicle

Sadly dunecrawlers don't have consistent enough damage to be good antitank

Also I don't know what the rules are for knights in crusades but adding a knight at 2000 would be great flavor wise

[spice flicker]

Hmmmm....

How does this look for 1k?

Tech priest dominus (75)
Skirarii Marshal (35)

2x10 secutari hoplites (130 a piece)
1x10 secutari peltasts (100 a piece)
1x5 secutari peltasts (50)
1x6 kataphron destroyers, heavy grav cannon, phosphor blaster (210 apiece)

2x onager dunecrawler, neutron laser, cognis heavy stubber (130 a piece)

990/1000

Would it be better to swap the 1x6 destroyers into a 1x3 breachers+upgrade 5 man peltasts into 10 man? I'd have 25 points to spare

Or would the previous 1k list be better?

[spice flicker]

If I remove the dunecrawlers I can add in another full peltasts squad as well as two duneriders to transport the hoplites. The cognis heavy stubber arrays can put out 18 shots within 18" which can soften up infantry or do some scratch damage before the hoplites arc lances can hinder vehicles. Giving the hoplites the transports would also increase their odds of reaching objectives/vehicles/targets. Thoughts?

[thin ibex]

You know I didn't see the aura for invulns on dunecrawlers before, they seem like great baseline additions to any mechanicus list

[spice flicker]

Shame that the 2nd 1k list doesn't have any battleline

But what do you think stormtalus? What would you say I should cut from the 1500 list to make it work as a 1k list?

[thin ibex]

Hmm I don't have a good read on the secutarii so I don't have a strong opinion

[spice flicker]

Ah I see

Thoughts on that first 1k list then?

[thin ibex]

I like it. Which Detachment?

[spice flicker]

Not sure

[lucid scarab]

Re: INQ28 convo from yesterday. I remembered while we were talking that some legit photographers took pics of my Vastarian warband on some of the tables in the Grimdark hallway at Adepticon.

[ebon forge]

Since the Imperium can't manufactor any more knights, them is only a matter of time until all the noble houses die and entire sectors can't mech battle anymore?

[jaunty dawn]

I think they can

at least the more common patterns

the throne itself is the most complex and even if some fws can make them losing one is losing millenia of experience

[ebon forge]

Ah true, because the throne maintains the past pilots experience, right?

[jaunty dawn]

mhm

new thrones are able to be made, as a brand new (including throne) dominus is delivered in assassinorium kingmaker, and the pilot comments on being the first to ever pilot it

but it's the biggest bottleneck still

[ebon forge]

I have to read kingmaker, is on my list, i am reading Defiant atm

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/29/new-stormcast-eternals-prosecutors-soar-into-battle-on-wings-of-azure-flame/

[south axle]

Woo, new Skaven model next week

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/V6UsRrqVbxdgZbYn-665x718.jpg

[still warren]

That's cool the wings are more like a harness

[pastel rampart]

Considerably better-looking than the old models

[jaunty dawn]

think I realised why I felt off abt the new liberator helmet haha

these are some cool ass valkyries though

ooh the roll is keyworded interesting

also is this just transhuman physiology all over again haha

[mental birch]

Funnier thought

Make ruination chamber non optional

Make it a 5+

And then

Reword it to whenever this unit uses or is selected as the target of any ability

I should not be allowed to design games

Hahahaahahha

[upper canopy]

Knights are actually relatively easy to manufacture

Their stc is widely known

[ebon forge]

Wow, the next helldiver update is insane /j

[thin ibex]

what stops other factions from using/producing knights actually?

agreements with the mechanicus?

they seem like theyd be a boon to the guard or whatever

[desert jay]

The mental side effects from piloting them probably get really out of hand if you're not either a noble of some sort or under tech-priest guidance. A little whisper in your brain asking why you aren't ruling a decent slice of a planet, and that you're sitting in the perfect vehicle to seize that for yourself

Whereas if you're a noble, you've got that going for you already and the throne settles down

[upper canopy]

Also the knight houses were a thing before the heresy

and If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It

[jaunty dawn]

infrastructure for training them n stuff

agreements with forge worlds

[upper canopy]

Yeah like

[desert jay]

And also freeblades hanging out with other forces, some of them are basically attached to a specific guard or marine unit

[upper canopy]

Every faction has access to Knights for a reason

[ebon forge]

Does Nocturne have nobles?

[tepid stratus]

Not to my knowledge

They run on a clan based system so I guess a clan chief would be the closest thing to a traditional noble

[mental birch]

Also Titans aren't STCs

Well they aren't from STCs

They were invented by the mechanicum to unify mars

[zinc field]

Iirc there’s also transfers in the canis rex kit that say things like “Mars M39”

Basically a date of manufacture for the knight

[ebon forge]

oh nice

[pulsar cairn]

if lucius kills himself on accident like lets say

a car accident

does the car turn into lucius

or does lucius turn into a new lucius

[jaunty dawn]

lucius becomes a transformer for that lifetime /j

[zinc field]

I think the answer is whatever slaanesh thinks is the funniest

[desert jay]

If Lucius dies in a truly faultless accident (except perhaps his own fault) then he dies for real

Fortunately for Lucius, space marines are very hard to kill

[ebon forge]

that happened
Slanny just brought him back still because yes

[desert jay]

Damn

[pastel rampart]

He's practically a daemon prince at this point.

[ebon forge]

I really don't like him honestly

[pastel rampart]

He's not very interesting and his rules have never been good enough for his cost.

[thin ibex]

didnt he die to a landmine and then the friggin person in the factory who liked making mines got lucius'd?

[pastel rampart]

Which sucks because he's really the only EC character and we're stuck with Great Value Freddy Krueger.

[thin ibex]

i think its an interesting curse but it plays poorly with like... interacting with the universe and known characters

which sort of like... segregates lucius from the rest of the cast at large

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

There's no stakes with Lucius. He can't die in the traditional sense, and can't be beaten by any other named character because they'll just turn into him.

[desert jay]

And Fabius the renegade EC char who they even gave his own subfaction in 9e

[pastel rampart]

I don't really put him in EC, is the thing.

[uneven ember]

I do kinda feel like the idea that the named characters need to know and interact with each other a lot makes the setting feel... smaller, I guess.

[pastel rampart]

He's former EC but he's off doing his own mad scientist shit.

[uneven ember]

Barring cases where the characters interacting is their Thing (Yarghkull)

[spice flicker]

I know these units are in legends but what do you think about them?

[tepid stratus]

Actually right now his rules are great for his cost he just can't join any of the units you actually want to give his buff to unless you're really into chainsword legionaries

[thin ibex]

i think i agree, though to me its not so much "needs to know and interact" but "can" and thats where the rub ends up going. It's like... if was a legionary from way way back, he would know other characters, characters who have names and interact. Even Kharn, murder man supreme, has compelling character connections and just enough interactions to make the world he exists within feel connected

[tired cairn]

Eh, don't named characters (who are enemies) interact with each other fairly often and don't kill each other even with a victory? Though if he's a duelist, it does make interesting stakes harder

Though him having an antagonist that repeatedly beats him but never finishes him off would be funny

[pastel rampart]

Be funny if it was an ork too, as shades of Grimgor Ironhide in the initial Storm of Chaos result.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I think lucius is just a character for writing silly stories about how he survived one time

but that doesn't really work for carrying a faction as well

[white mural]

IVE FINALLY WON

I’ve played this game for like almost a year now

[jaunty dawn]

which is also kinda why in heresy there's like 5 other emp childs ppl care about a lot more

[white mural]

And I’ve finally actually completed a campign

[tepid stratus]

Shame the only two still alive are Fabius who's gone solo and Eidolon who's a barely sentient zombie

[white mural]

Sorry for interrupting enjoy your conversation about Horus heresy

[pastel rampart]

Eh, only visually. Eidolon's still got a working set of brains in there.

[jaunty dawn]

eidolon is alive???

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

[jaunty dawn]

wild

[pastel rampart]

Shows up in the Bile trilogy.

Clonelord, specifically.

[lofty warren]

If one more person says to me that GW is gaslighting im going to throw something through my computer

[white mural]

This looks…

Hmmm

Here’s why I am pro female custodes

Because I can use all the new fan art to get my long time pen pal/occasional romantic interest into Warhammer

[thin ibex]

I think it's also pretty weird that lucius curse has the stipulation about if anyone takes an even a bit of pride in defeating him, they turn into him, but the application of that curse is "if he dies at all, the person most responsible becomes him." Which is less nuanced and cool

Effectively being "someone is definitely turning into lucius and he's not dying, for sure. " rather than "someday a foe will best him that does not trigger the curse and that'll finally put him down for good"

[pastel rampart]

I could see that applying not to the lone guardsman who killed him, but the commander in charge as a neat sort of twist.

[white mural]

Lucius has always been silly nonsense and we love that

[floral herald]

The point of the curse is for Slaanesh to fuck with him by making him forever wear the faces of the people who beat him in duels and shit

[jaunty dawn]

partially though it's like saying that as if normal characters are just dying all the time

the fact that lucius isn't gonna die isnt what's unique really

[floral herald]

Most of the mortal champions of the gods have been brought back iirc

Like Kharn has but there's no funny twist or whatever Khorne just slaps his organs back in shape and tells him to get on with it

[white mural]

they are kinda like the ultimate jobbers/worf

Well okay that’s abbadon but still

[thin ibex]

I guess, though it feels a bit flat when, effectively, he's the main character of the story of any story he's in, because ultimately it's about how the curse affects him. If that makes any sense

[spice flicker]

Anyone ever read the forges of mars trilogy?

[lofty warren]

I mean, why not right

Thats what i would do if i was a chaos god with a kharn

No nonsense, this dude is dead killy but sometimes you get got

[floral herald]

Yeah Slaanesh has just set extra hoops

For fun

[lofty warren]

Thats just the way of things

Has ahriman died?

I feel like his dead probably doesn't include free rezzes

[floral herald]

He seems like the kind of guy who'd have contingencies for his own death

IDK though

[ebon forge]

That's why Chaos is so powerful, the Lion can kill angron, sure
but he will be back
but if Angron Kill Lion once, it's over for Lion.

Unless they use a very powerful kind of gun/metal

[jaunty dawn]

ahriman just casts 'gone from here'

[raw vessel]

I have to wonder if the people who try to "Solve" killing Lucius once and for all watch Columbo and hope the murderer gets away with it this time.

Like it seems a fundamental misunderstanding of why that character exists.

[ebon forge]

Do tell why he exists

cuz i have no idea @.@

[solemn gull]

I do it because I think its thematically cool but kind of dumb

[spice flicker]

Slaanesh needed a champion so he became it long before Fabius was a thing and people/gw realized he would have been a better champion but 1) lucius still exists and 2) bile rejects the existence of slaanesh.

[thin ibex]

the key, if im reading between the lines correctly, is finding the most oldest and goodest sword there is, and then it will cut chaos gods

because old = good

[ebon forge]

Claw: Fuck old, I will make my own new thing

[thin ibex]

imperium finding stone cutlery from the dawn of mankind. It annihilate a greater demon with a scratch

[jaunty dawn]

if you stab lucius with a daemon sword do you become lucius or does the sword

[thin ibex]

asking the big questions

[jaunty dawn]

like youre both super stoked to be killing him

[soft willow]

Yup, it's fun, we talk about it a lot here I feel like.

[thin ibex]

if lucius kills himself, does he possess his own corpse

[soft willow]

Some very weird/good fluff in it.

[spice flicker]

Honestly the idea of the Explorator fleet sounds really interesting

[thin ibex]

also if lucius dies cause like, he tripped and fell, but the guy who made all his gear and the guy who paved the ground both fucking vehemently hated their jobs and took no pride in them, does one of em still get posessed?

[raw vessel]

To think yourself above the gods is an excess Slaanesh embodies as well. Bile, even though he rejects them, feeds the gods through his actions. I'm going through the Bile trilogy right now and there's a scene where a Death Guard apothecary tells him this to his face, and even gives him the example that he wouldn't be as good as an apothecary if he wasn't forced to fight against the disease killing him.

[floral herald]

I think the easiest way to have Lucius die permanently is to have a champion of Khorne who Khorne really likes kill Lucius in the hopes that Khorne will intervene

[thin ibex]

get tzeentch to change the curse

not remove i t

just change it

[jaunty dawn]

nurgle champion who kills lucius and does start to become lucius but just deals with it

[ebon forge]

But why kill Lucious
Why off for good an character

[thin ibex]

becomes lucius but like... as an illness

[desert jay]

Too many characters, need to make cuts

[thin ibex]

"Guys i think i caught lucius"

[jaunty dawn]

just like cancer can never truly kill the champion

[solemn gull]

Also like, what if lucius steps on a landmine made by some serf who has been dead for 300 years and all his corpse starch is expired

[jaunty dawn]

lucius just kinda grows and is stuck on his back

[thin ibex]

lucius just be like "god damn, this really fucking sucks. I'm just sick all the time and i don't worship nurgle"

[solemn gull]

Stagnation is boring

[ebon forge]

Good point

[floral herald]

The important thing is that it needles Lucius

[solemn gull]

I wish they would turn off the plot armour for like half a second and see how many characters die

[floral herald]

Slaanesh is still bringing his ass back but he's got a cereal box on his armor as a reminder now

[thin ibex]

imagine opening your corpse starch container, and the mashed potatoes ask you to duel

[jaunty dawn]

they 'killed' yarrick

nothing's really happened with that yet

[thin ibex]

we still dont actually have the circumstances around his death dug into yet right

[floral herald]

You can tell Yarrick was a true 40k BAMF since he appears to have died of old age

[solemn gull]

What should happen? A model of a funeral possession?

[thin ibex]

i wonder if they're saving it for a short or a novel or the guard dex

[jaunty dawn]

no its just a really weird situation

[desert jay]

Get a bunch of martyrs to conspire to kill Lucius, wait around for someone to start to turn, throw them in a really deep hole and just leave Lucius down there

[thin ibex]

or maybe yarrick gets hella good rejuvinat and he shows back up as Comissar Barrick

[solemn gull]

Obama?

[jaunty dawn]

creed died and now there's a new creed

[thin ibex]

"I'm totally not the same guy, guys

honest

"

[solemn gull]

He isn’t dead?

[thin ibex]

he's effectively dead

but not actually dead

[solemn gull]

Also yeah his daughter just popped out of nowhere

[thin ibex]

still weird that ursula got his jacket but not him

really suspect

[desert jay]

Ursarkar E. Creed is dead, his daughter Ursula is here now

[floral herald]

I like the idea that Yarrick wanted to retire without losing his image and conspired to fake his death as a martyr

[jaunty dawn]

oh wait no yeah he jsut got kidnapped

[floral herald]

Since he's such a propagandist

[thin ibex]

yeah creed is in trazyns collection now

[solemn gull]

Trazyn didn’t want the jacket

[thin ibex]

probably thought that it was kinda sick that creed could hide baneblades

[solemn gull]

Can’t wait for the creed jailbreak novel

[thin ibex]

so he was like "into my collection you go"

[desert jay]

Oh right

[jaunty dawn]

creed is as dead as gulliman

[solemn gull]

Creed got to team up with other members of Trazyn’s zoo to escape

[jaunty dawn]

did trazyn personally give ursula creed the coat

like

as a gimme

[floral herald]

"you can keep the coat"

[solemn gull]

Actually

[jaunty dawn]

the coat appeared mysteriously in her chambers

[solemn gull]

This would be a awesome ttrpg idea

[desert jay]

From Lexicanum: "afterwards her fathers cloak was mysteriously discovered within her personal chambers"

[thin ibex]

side note, i really appreciate that ursula has a helmet head on her sprue

[floral herald]

he fucking did then

[desert jay]

So yeah i guess

[jaunty dawn]

after she completed her side quest about her father's time capsule

[thin ibex]

oh damn yeah trazyn was like "here you go"

maybe trazyn like actually had a convo with creed first

as a courtesyt

[brittle salmon]

Trazyn is a sentimental old fart and we love him for that

[solemn gull]

Mmmmmm T3 WanG game

[floral herald]

That fucks yeah

[thin ibex]

who plays creed?

or is creed an npc

[floral herald]

Shared NPC I'd say

[solemn gull]

Probably yeah

[thin ibex]

thats a cool ass premise

[desert jay]

Bring back Ursarkar for the 11e Necron codex

[jaunty dawn]

Everyone Is Creed

[solemn gull]

He’s an old guy

[floral herald]

Ursarkar "the silent king made some good points actually" Creed

[thin ibex]

ursarkar E Pariah?

ursarkar the first transferrence reversal

[soft willow]

Robo-Creed

[solemn gull]

He recruits the few less-insane xenos, heretics, and imperials. After he figures out a plan to calibrate a gate to get them out of there

You could make any character you want

[floral herald]

What helmet pattern is this?

Looks almost Krieg haha

[thin ibex]

Creed Pattern 😛

[desert jay]

Nah not a robot or cyborg or anything, Trazyn just has a job for him and gives him a cool black-and-glowy-green coat

[thin ibex]

it would be kinda cool for trazyn to have like a museum suicide squad, as a different premise. Just uses some displays to solve problems caused by other displays

[jaunty dawn]

whatever happened to the suicide squad

last chancers?

[thin ibex]

i think they died

schaeffers last chancers right?

[solemn gull]

They always die

Thats kind of their gimmick

[thin ibex]

well the leader never dies

just everyone else

[solemn gull]

Kaige survived though

[jaunty dawn]

schaeffer yeah

[solemn gull]

He’s maybe an immortal?

Some sort of psyker

[thin ibex]

i think the lore just kinda forgot about them

[solemn gull]

They had a new book not TOO long ago

Armageddon saint

Kaige somehow finds his way to armageddon during the new war

That fire is apt as he is horrifically burned up

[thin ibex]

i forget, did creed actually face off against abby on the last day of cadia's existence?

[desert jay]

Oh huh Trazyn probably has Vandire's beheaded corpse

[solemn gull]

He did jump into a volcano while being demonically possessed last time

[jaunty dawn]

we just need to wait for morven vahl to finish her side quest and vandire's head will mysteriously appear in her personal quarters???

[pulsar cairn]

Do world eaters have personal beef with the Ultra Marines?

[floral herald]

not really

[solemn gull]

Not really

[pulsar cairn]

[solemn gull]

Word bearers though if thats the red chaos marines you are thinking of

[thin ibex]

its word bearers and um that are kind of on sight

all hands

[pulsar cairn]

I know about the word bearers thingy

[thin ibex]

i think the world eaters are an equal opportunity hater

[pulsar cairn]

They participated in the burning of their planet right?

[solemn gull]

Yep

[thin ibex]

if anything, WE have beef with the Tsons for being cowardly sorcerers

[pulsar cairn]

That would be fair

[floral herald]

The World Eaters I think have special enmity for the Blood Angels for killing Angron

[pulsar cairn]

They even killed all of their librarians during the heresy

[floral herald]

But its sort of 1 sided

[thin ibex]

i always figured the WE thing for BA was symptomatic of Khorne's interest in the BA

as he's laid claim on them for millenia

[solemn gull]

They are jealous

[thin ibex]

its why khorne bailed Baal out from the nids

[tepid stratus]

There's so many layers of irony to modern world eater recruits being blood Angels suffering the red thirst

[thin ibex]

cause they're like "it's not like i like blood angels, but the nids cant have you" tsundere khorne

[desert jay]

Look, he got better

[floral herald]

Still salty though

[thin ibex]

i still think sanguinius coulda gone toe to toe proper with abby if he hadnt just held the gate solo and killed... at least 1, was it 2 primarchs? I havent read end of death tho

[desert jay]

I don't think a real Khornate should get upset about someone beating you. Sounds like a skill issue

Cowards? Yeah fuck cowards

[thin ibex]

well tbh, i think a real khornate would get mad at just about anything

like mild inconveniences

real shit

[floral herald]

Did you mean Horus here, cause its pretty clear Horus was jobbing as FUCK for that fight

[thin ibex]

whatever

horus yeah

sry my b

[floral herald]

No worries I was just like "yeah he'd shit on Abaddon for sure"

[desert jay]

Horus was also super juiced at that point

[thin ibex]

sangiunius just kinda stood on business during his last hours

[tepid stratus]

"I was on Terra when the angel of blood fell" is such a great line when you realize it's just the black rage and the nails double teaming their menories

[thin ibex]

at least also, sang put his abject generalized supriority to work holding that gate

cause i dont know that that many other primarchs could have replicated that feat

brains moving on energy drink adhd atm

[desert jay]

Horus was in full-on "favored of the four gods" mode aboard the Vengeful Spirit above Terra

[thin ibex]

i feel like calgar should have like a container just filled with replacement limbs, and give him like expendable bits, where he has rocket hands and so on

and just get dismembered frequently

round 3 with the swarmlord has him intentionally like reverse megazording

"each of my limbs is controlled independently as its own smaller war machine"

[solemn gull]

Go go gadget Calgar

[thin ibex]

"I've had all my bits cut off so often, i figured i should make it a feature"

[desert jay]

AIUI the Horus vs Sang fight was like... "yeah I'll fight Sang on fair terms... oh shit Sang's got hands... double oh shit dad's coming I gotta wrap this up"

[solemn gull]

Also when is Cato getting back into the storyline

[thin ibex]

ok i like that

[solemn gull]

Like he gets out of the warp in his book and talks with calgar but we aren’t told when exactly this happens

So if calgar dies that means cato is back

[thin ibex]

"Haha ill turn the difficulty up, im good at this ga-oh shit oh shit, back to easy mode BACK TO EASY MODE"

isn't cato just kind of around?

[floral herald]

He's also kind of sandbagging in hopes that Sangy will realize the truth and join him but it works badly

[brittle salmon]

Hopefully never

[thin ibex]

sang be like "i just finished fighting greater daemons, a primarch, a bunch of legionnaires, probably at least one zoat, a kitbashed water bottle robot, and Jeremy from accounting. Square up Horus, i dont want to talk"

[desert jay]

Sang beheaded a titan

[thin ibex]

sang looking back after slam dunking a titan's head "Did you just see that? I didn't even know i could DO that!?"

[floral herald]

Sanguinius was also powergaming his visions for a lot of that but that's valid trickery

[thin ibex]

"I'm so perfect because I'm literally quicksave scumming big dawg"

[floral herald]

Not even that fancy

[brittle salmon]

If Sang was fighting Horus when he was fully rested I honestly think he could have fought Horus to at least a standstill

[floral herald]

He had True Visions of fighting and dying while fighting Horus

He can't die until that happens

* ymmv a little fate was broken during the siege of terra

[floral herald]

I think Horus's FTL chaos god trick would still have worked probably

[thin ibex]

reminding me of the auralnauts skit with the stormtroopers realizing they're in a narrative and CANT hit anything they shoot at, because hte narrative says so

and theyre saga to escape the narrative

[brittle salmon]

wat

[floral herald]

I'll see if I can find it but its some of the most wonderfully purple prose in the book

[solemn gull]

Why you hatin

Cato is probably my favourite lil dude

[ebon forge]

yeah I heard Cato got a lot better and had some good stuff in the past

[brittle salmon]

Cato is the definition of a pompous twit

[ebon forge]

Didn't G-man pumped his ego into the slumps?

[solemn gull]

Yep

Well no

Spending 6 years in the warp made him depressed though

And he also grew a majestic moustache

[thin ibex]

i think wardian Cato and tts Cato inform a lot of people about Cato and fewer are familiar with modern Cato

who i feel might be a little less insufferable

[solemn gull]

Way less

He becomes a genuinely cool dude

[thin ibex]

whats his deal now? is he still the UM's resident tactical genius?

[solemn gull]

Still their best swordsman but he is probably overshadowed in tactical genius by calgar or the new primaris replacement

He is just a tired firstborn

[brittle salmon]

Fair enough, I only know pre-Primaris Cato and he was exactly that, so

[floral herald]

He’s got a little left. A little strength. A little speed. More than you expected. He deserves his fame. You exchange blows, trading four in rapid succession, each one parried or hooked aside. Oh, he’s good. Even now. Still trying. Death has brought out the best in him.
Maybe, despite everything, he still thinks he’s invincible.
You will disabuse him of that notion. You slam your lethal claws around him to crush him–
He isn’t there. He’s slipped aside, a flash of gold, as fast as a sunbeam, evading you at the speed of light.
But you, you move at the speed of darkness. You catch him on the backswing, your Talon shearing locks of his hair, and snapping his head sideways. Worldbreaker does the rest. It hits him just above the hip, folds him double, and hurls him across the Court like a doll. He flies, one last time.
His spinning body strikes the ornate prayer screen of your private chapel. The fretwork, carved from solid diorite without any trace of toolmarks, smashes as he goes through it. Small splinters of stone clatter to the deck.
You follow him. You walk over to the side chapel slowly. There’s no reason to hurry. The bladed head of your maul is matted with blood and golden hair.

It's probably allegorical but it's also extremely chuuni

[solemn gull]

He is still not primaris

[uneven ember]

There is a Pratchett bit about how you can tell the speed of darkness is faster than the speed of light, because everywhere light goes it turns out darkness got there first and had been waiting for it.

[brittle salmon]

Can you not ping me when I'm in the convo, please?

[solemn gull]

My bad its on by default

[brittle salmon]

And I mean pre-Primaris emergence anyway

[solemn gull]

Either way it’s cool seeing his character growth

Its like, the only 40k novel I ever bought physically and it was pretty good for a bus trip book

[floral herald]

I do like the sort of rare "space marine character growth" books

Helsreach is also good for that

[ebon forge]

As Arthur said
"I love to read about the ashes of war"
So yes I agree with ya

[uneven ember]

also appreciated Helsreach for really digging up the old school Epic nonsense as major plot points

[thin ibex]

Do kinda wish there were rules for imperial soup, but I guess you can also just play 4 player with different imperial lists

[lofty warren]

Imperial soup makes balancing the whole game really difficult

Factions are as defined by tools they dont have as ones they do

[pine matrix]

Is there a story about chaos space marines where they have character growth? I've only really read the Night Lords trilogy and that was very much about doubling down over and over again despite all evidence pointing to it being a bad idea

I do think it'd be a cool angle for a CSM story which focused on someone getting inducted into a warband and how they'd try and instill their "long war" philosophy

[uneven ember]

Well, I do think "do my bad idea harder" is a kind of character growth...
The Soul Drinker trilogy has CSM pull back from CSM-ness and winding up renegade, yeah?

[bright dove]

It does indeed!

[runic swallow]

I think they’re meant to be just straight up renegade rather than Chaos

[thin ibex]

definitely, i just like the idea of running a guard army with space marines in drop pods as their elites xD

way back when my dad painted up a shadowsword for me, for a valhallan army taht theoretically wouldve been run alongside the space wolves

[lofty warren]

cannot deny that would be neat

would be cool if they made that a detachment or something

not free listbuilding but limited options

[thin ibex]

a crusade detachment would be cool

[runic swallow]

Which is a distinction I wish happened more often, since I feel it’d be interesting to do more, since I feel legions like the Night Lords and Iron Warriors could have an interesting split between having war ands that are more renegade and ones that are more chaos if that makes sense

[thin ibex]

like the torchbearers

[lofty warren]

i really wish 40k would offer some other way chaos could go

something beyond the long war or the machinations of alien gods

[pine matrix]

Yeah, I'd be interested to see more space marines going renegade and saying "fuck it, me and my gang of super soldiers are just going to do what we want to do"

But then I guess you have the hypno-conditioning

[lofty warren]

its obviously part of the theme of 40k that noone ever makes anything truly new

but god, i'd love someone to really subvert that

[uneven ember]

it's been a hot minute but I'm pretty sure at least part of the Chapter starts sprouting gribbly bits?

[uneven ember]

Isn't this pretty much Huron Blackheart's deal?

[pine matrix]

I do love ol' Huron for that reason

[thin ibex]

i dont necessarily mind the physically warped, spikey, horrifying end state, but it would be cool to see more chaos/renegades who are much earlier in their heretical/traitorous journey

like the theming that the imperium eventually drives even not chaos aligned astartes into the waiting hands of the warp works for me, but that would imply there is a period of time they are not warped

[uneven ember]

They've also (afaik) gotten like zero attention but you had the Knights of Blood, a BA successor who got so teamkill-happy that they wound up being declared Renegade.

[pine matrix]

Agreed, at least in the Horus Heresy there's a long descent before everyone starts sprouting new arms and tentacles

My main desire for renegade non-chaos marines is wrapped in my desire for rebellions against the Imperium in general that aren't orchestrated by chaos/aliens, it's just the Imperium just says that's what they are anyway

Though the bad guys in Darktide are pretty great examples of the Imperium inciting a chaos rebellion due to their own negligence

[thin ibex]

yeah i would also like to see some rebellions not controlled by dark forces

but rather, like normal, discontent forces

[lofty warren]

i like the idea of trying to use the mutations and whatnot to like

do good

in some way

that you do not have to have the shape of a man to be human

[thin ibex]

the soul drinkers were/are like that iirc

i dunno if theyre still around

[lofty warren]

lexicanum says no, but theres a primaris successor

which is now my pick to be the first primaris CSM chapter

come on lets go come on

we gotta have em eventually!

[pine matrix]

Chaos Gods saw the primaris and started giving more "gain a couple of inches" boons to CSM

Going to Bile for my shin extension surgery

[lucid scarab]

Badab war starts this way at least

Eventually people involved fall to chaos, but it was legitimately some pretty mundane stuff it started over

[pine matrix]

Lugft just wanted to guard the Malestrom better! And taxes were getting in the way of that

[floral herald]

Blood Slaughter (funniest name in the book) are sort of interesting because they get haunted first and then become renegades

Wait maybe I'm getting the name wrong

Crimson Slaughter!

[solemn gull]

The first black legion book does this yeah, a EC marine learns to not be a sadist and make friends, and a khorne guy learns to not want to murder his comrades

[thin ibex]

i do feel like some of the more far patrol style chapters are quasi renegades

where they're like "i really dont give a shit about what else is happening, we got our mission like 10 millenia ago and have been keeping at it this whole time"

like the carcharadons

[jaunty dawn]

pf

[thin ibex]

who also raid imperial worlds for resources

[jaunty dawn]

I was just about to say that

[pine matrix]

There is those guys in the Ghoul Stars who are just doing their own shit

Death Scythes?

[floral herald]

Not quite a CSM book but there's a chaos space marine in Lion Son of the Forest who goes loyal again

[pine matrix]

"I am empowered by the Dark Prince, but my true strength is in my friends!"

[thin ibex]

that one chapter who, as part of their initiation, gets possessed by a demon on purpose, then gets it exorcised; as like the public facing version of Grey Knights Lite

[jaunty dawn]

this isn't exactly the topic of conversation but one of my favourite csm warbands is The Sanctified, a bunch of word bearers who decided to join the world eaters instead

[floral herald]

I've got an excess of determination and friendship

[jaunty dawn]

and they still specialise in all the ritual-ing they used to do, they just do it for khorne specifically and go beserk once their job is done

[pine matrix]

No greater pleasure than a crisp high five from a homie

[thin ibex]

khornate tribe who love blood bonds so theyre SUPER family oriented, and just add generations of skulls to the skull altar and is otherwise kinda peaceful vibes

[pine matrix]

That sounds extremely cool

[floral herald]

I really like The Harvest

They love defending fortresses in sieges so much they don't wait to be besieged

[uneven ember]

they're the ones who warp into fortifications, slaughter the defenders, and then start slaughtering the attackers from the fortifications they just took?

[floral herald]

Yeah!

[pine matrix]

Lmaoooo

[jaunty dawn]

also the sanctified scheme is pretty dope too

no care for trim, colchisian runes, black purity seals

[thin ibex]

ok thats actually hilarious

are those guys defending over there?

we could be defending

do they even care who they defend against?

[floral herald]

Not really

It's mentioned that they beelined for Cadia during the siege and that "no one" was safe from them

[uneven ember]

Blood God, bay-BEE. Cares not from whom the blood flows.

[thin ibex]

"My lord, the left flank collapsed but now its holding!"

"who's holding it? Everyone over there is dead!"

the harvest just being absolute defense freaks

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ashen_Claws In regards to renegades, you also get these guys.

[thin ibex]

before i click it, arent they renegades mostly cause they dont think imperials are hardcore enough or something

[pastel rampart]

It's Complicated™️

[jaunty dawn]

damn

[lofty warren]

these guys REALLY hate night lords

damn

[runic swallow]

Iron Warriors who’ve lost the plot lol

[uneven ember]

Can it be that you deny it? For, free of them, I have.
The reward for loyalty is betrayal. Greatness earns only enmity from the jealous and the fearful. For my service all the Imperium showed me was bloody enemies and false friends, and so evermore, I will be the master.```

[lofty warren]

the greatest tragedy of space marines is that they can only see the world in terms of masters

[thin ibex]

narratively lufgt was also fairly popular wasnt he?

[lofty warren]

shame his model is Like That

[floral herald]

yeah

[pulsar cairn]

Become warp entity

Force a iron warrior to ve part of your tea party

It will probably feed slanesh

[uneven ember]

also, just pondered this a sec
& it was mentioned that the Knights of Blood trial with the High Lords had many Blood Angel successors speaking out in their defense
& I've imagined the High Lords trying to keep track of all the Space Marine chapters whose names were based on some synonym for "blood" or "red"

[runic swallow]

Tribunal member leaning over to the Most High Scribe Court Recorder and asking him to clear up which of the red blood guys this one is

[uneven ember]

Or, thinking about it, just realizing "oh, right--I don't care"

just hearing the fancy poetic litany of battle in the Emperor's service & going "oh what wow that's crazy no way"

[runic swallow]

Inquisitor actively filing out unrelated paperwork during the fourth space marine’s battle honors recitation

[soft willow]

Oh you're from the Blood Bloods? Which founding? Sorry you didn't know that your chapter had been destroyed and replaced more than once? Well consider that a lesson.

[upper canopy]

Fun fact

You could roll the Bloody Bloods in Deathwatchs chapter creation

And thus they have been a meme in my circles for nigh on a decade

Them and the Brothers Brothers

Which according to @round raft were all just wrestling parodies

John Cena drop podded a mat in to beat up our Assault Marine

[uneven ember]

that would actually kick ass

[round raft]

first company captain Cenaus whose power armor was equipped with an archeotech cloaking device

and it wasnt a mat

it was a whole ring complete with rage cage for the aformeentioend punitive cage match

he needed to be humbled

[thin ibex]

still want to give the marines marines a backstory lol

[unreal cosmos]

https://vxtwitter.com/Kvin_Tass/status/1784627535738794264 🤔

[past sphinx]

its so deeply wrong you just send it

[pulsar cairn]

are servo skulls like

your actual skull

or they transfer your brain into the the thing?

[soft willow]

Yes?

Depends on how nice your skull is or how much your tech priest friends like you.

[past sphinx]

got a lotta spare skulls in the imperium of man

to many some may say

[pulsar cairn]

ok one more question

are skittari like...

the same as a servitor when it comes to their awareness to things?

or do they get to keep more of their brain

[upper canopy]

depends

[past sphinx]

depends on the timeframe of the writing

[pulsar cairn]

fair

[past sphinx]

early written skittari are a different branch of the admech, not a subserviant class

the right fist of the machine god

their current autonomy is more adjudicated by rank i believe, every fighter slaved to the impluse unit above them, able to take orders or even be completely controlled

[pulsar cairn]

Early skittari sound cooler

[upper bluff]

Agreed

[past sphinx]

read or listen to Titanicus, its one of the few 40k books actually worth getting through

[pulsar cairn]

cool

[floral herald]

They’re all above servitors but how much they have varies by author and book

“More aware than a servitor” is a very low bar though

[pulsar cairn]

Is it a punishment to be turned into a skittari?

[floral herald]

I mean maybe sometimes

[past sphinx]

punishment! to crush the enemys of the god machine?

bah

[upper bluff]

Are kataphrons punishment?

[past sphinx]

their spirits should be uplifted by the chance!

[pulsar cairn]

Maybe u did a bad and that's how u redeem yourself

[floral herald]

Skitarii are broadly speaking a pretty proud and professional force

[pulsar cairn]

neat

Imma go bed now

Gn!

[floral herald]

I think they have more autonomy outside of combat?

[uneven ember]

night bork

[floral herald]

I know it’s noted that they view the really intense control the tech priests exert over them as a kind of “divine possession” from the machine god

[upper canopy]

It also depends on the particular planet

forge worlds do their own thing differently

maybe some skitarrii are proud warrior class soldiers

maybe others are completely lobotimied RTS grunts

[brittle salmon]

the Crimson Guard from Only War definitely fall under the former

[mental birch]

We have lobotomised RTS grunts

They are resin and 40 gbp for 10

I think

[uneven ember]

just do wanna jump on this one tho:
I don't think the AM would generally see being skitariified as a "punishment" in itself.
But I do think that (at least some places) make "handed over to the AM as raw materials" a punishment.
The Techies wouldn't see it as "punishing" the organic part any more than they're "punishing" the ore by turning it into the metal parts.

[mental birch]

46 gbp

For 10

For like 30 poings

[floral herald]

Admech punishment seems to usually be menial servitorization

Like that one novel with the noble who mouths off to a tech priest at a bad time

And gets force-servitorized into basically a power loader

[uneven ember]

heh

[floral herald]

And those wall mounted servitors have to come from somewhere

[thin ibex]

Hmm what are some build restrictions I should build with if I try for a renegade sm list using Loyalists

And then same question for non chaos csm renegades

[past sphinx]

Rhinos

a lot of rhino based stuff id imagine

heavier space marine armor couldnt be well fed and maintained by raiding

no terminators, cant replace them, repair them or expend the manpower to retrieve a fallen suit

[thin ibex]

Ooo hmm OK I had a go assuming they had like one squad of termies, but I'll try one with that vibe too

My theme was "they're all very veteran"

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/ChumiiCham/status/1784967188270444921/photo/1

https://fxtwitter.com/mossacannibalis/status/1783479591144988967/photo/1

[still warren]

funny detail from the new totalwar dlc, I get what they meant but lol

[spice flicker]

Well they are the knights who are dedicated to Morr, the human God of death.

[still warren]

Yeah but their shield just says God twice now

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/MeU_317/status/1785266398924808651

[junior robin]

finally, rocks and lightning, together at last.

[upper bluff]

So that's a new skaven, right?

Little gizmos, rocks, and lightning

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this 1k eldar list:

Autarch, warlord, Dragon fusion gun, starglaive
Farseer, singing spear
Warlock skyrunner, singing spear

10 guardian defenders, bright lance
10 Storm guardians, 2x power swords, guardian fusion gun

5 dire avengers
5 fire dragons, firepike
5 rangers

3 windriders, 2 shuriken cannons, scatter laser

Wraithlord, 2 flamers, 2 bright lances, ghostglaive

Falcon, twin shuriken cannon, bright lance

1000/1000 points

[rocky shale]

I'd consider dropping the dire avengers since they don't do much in a 5man

And the warlock for only 3 skyrunner is a little pricy for buffing so little.

Do you have warp spiders or Hawks?

[pulsar cairn]

Are warp spiders the funny daemon engines?

[rocky shale]

No they're just teleporty elves

[pulsar cairn]

Ooooooh

[pastel rampart]

They're also like the oldest sculpt in the Eldar line now

[pulsar cairn]

Weird name for eldar

[pastel rampart]

https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99810104008_WarpSpidersNEW_01.jpg?fm=webp&w=670&h=691

Absolute perfection

[soft willow]

Spiders are just crabs, and crabs are the perfect life form, therefore carcinzation strikes again.

[floral herald]

It’s fucked up how good those sculpts are

[soft willow]

Can't fix what isn't broken.

[floral herald]

An update really just needs to make the posing more dynamic

[soft willow]

I remember when these were new.

[pulsar cairn]

Eldar armor is pretty cool

[jaunty dawn]

what's up with the exarch's leg situation

[floral herald]

I only remember when they were not notably old

[soft willow]

Sometimes you just wrap your legs in webbing to commit to the bit.

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/30/clash-with-eldritch-manifestations-and-demolish-faction-terrain-in-newaos/

shows what groups of endless spells you can pick from

seems like you can now just straight up beat up an endless spell

[tepid stratus]

The incarnate being a spell lore pick is wild. I really need to know how it's changed because thats a 400pt model right now

[jaunty dawn]

kinda neat

[pulsar cairn]

Shit, i replied to the wrong thing

[jaunty dawn]

chopping down trees vs growing trees attrition war

[spice flicker]

Any recommendations for replacements then?

What's your suggestion for the 125 point change? This is for crusade if that helps any

[jaunty dawn]

I do think it's kinda sad you can't mix thematic generic endless spells with your faction ones but then you might have more freedom in narrative play anyway so

[solemn gull]

I was thinking about running a narrative event with my gaming group.
Each person gets control of one unit of guardsmen and a chimera, and they have to make their way through a sort of dense jungle filled with tyranids.

Trying to think of some cool objectives for this

[rocky shale]

Some considerations:

Autarch wayleaper or foot autarch with the guardians for extra CP.

More windriders to have a proper blob worth buffing (do all shiruken cannons)

Hawks or spiders for scoring

Maybe scorpions for screening and infantry killing since you don't have a lot of that

Shroud runners also tend to out-value windrunners unless you run a big blob with warlock/farseer and stuff.

You already have a decent amount of anti-tank and durable units, but storm guardians are pretty slow and flimsy compared to the best Eldar scoring/secondaries units.

[spice flicker]

I already included an autarch and I feel like blobs might be nice but at 1k having the bikes be in trio can help cover more of the board for seconraries.

[rocky shale]

Oh whoops I'm blind

Maybe go 2x3 shroud runners instead of 2x3 windrunners? You get double the buffs from them and they cost the same.

[spice flicker]

If I go for a 2nd trio of bikes I have 45 points to spare which could be a warlock...

[rocky shale]

Damn that's almost another unit of rangers

The warlock giving auto-advance to the storm guardians might be something

[spice flicker]

I was thinking of attaching the autarch to the SG as well so that could work and yeah

Alternatively if I got rid of the fire dragons and didn't do the warlock I could upgrade the falcon to a fire Prism and have around 90 points to spare I think

[rocky shale]

The autarch needs to be attached somewhere unless you make him a wayleaper (which I think you could also do with those 45pts)

IMO falcon+dragons is better than 1 prism

[spice flicker]

SG have better melee than the GD which is why I decided on that pairing.

Understood

What about a wave serpent instead of a falcon?

[rocky shale]

SG melee profile is kinda terrible except for the power swords. It's the same as the guardian defender melee but with 2 attacks instead of 1

[rocky shale]

The falcon has a better gun and you don't have 12 models that you actually want to put inside it

[spice flicker]

True

True

I was just thinking that the wave serpent can have the bright lance be twinlinked and the 20 extra points could afford a 2nd squad of rangers.

[rocky shale]

Storm guardians are there because sticky objectives are really good in 1k games and the fusion guns/flamers can occasionally do some good work. I wouldn't charge them into melee often.

You already get rerolls as aeldari so the twin linked is a bit underwhelming when it's the only primary gun.

The falcon pulse laser slaps

Also deep strike

[spice flicker]

Ok

So instead of avengers+bike warlock+windrunners just double up on a trio of shroud runners and a regular warlock right?

[rocky shale]

Probably yeah

You'll get good chaff killing, some buffs, and guaranteed 6" advance move on storm guardians

[thin ibex]

is the falcon still a aeldari drop pod with heavy weaponry?

[floral herald]

No?

It’s a weird tank with 6 seats

[thin ibex]

i meant mechanically, last edition they effectively worked like drop pods

except also were tanks

looks like they dont anymore

they had this in 9th

[spice flicker]

No they're just normal transports now with deepstrike and fire support.

[rocky shale]

Any deep striking transport basically works like this now

[thin ibex]

well not really, most deepstrike isnt possible first turn

[jaunty dawn]

it's just a mission pack rule now instead of a core rule

[lucid scarab]

Actually quite funny, I’ve been planning something a bit similar but for epic 40k. Check out the Anphelion Project forge world campaign for some ideas

[jaunty dawn]

yeah anphelion project is cool

there was a thing they had to do in a small building and there was a lictor waiting for them there

[lucid scarab]

Yeah it’s very sick. Total idea mine for running asymmetric narratives too. They explicitly made the encounters unfair. Which I think is really fun scenario design.

I am planning a variation on the basic Anphelion Project idea of Tyranids escape the lab due to imperial arrogance. But because my collection is all Retro Nids I’m going to theme it a bit goofier and pulpier. Rogue Trader and Second Edition vibes. One thing I’m planning for example is a town on the planet (cropped up to support the research base) has been completely replaced by genestealers who believe they are humans. How will the players respond to that? Instant violence? Or try to figure out more about the extent of the Tyranid incursion

The large scale battles will be fought using Epic and then we’ll zoom in for small warband narrative stuff. Exploring the halls of the Research base, dodging Genestealers and Grabber Slashers

[spice flicker]

Can I just say that among the ad Mech my favorite of their named characters (in no particular order) are: Cawl, Lexell Kotov, Ipluvien Maximal, and Koriel Zeth

And pascal too I guess

[dense sedge]

ad mech has named characters that aren't Cawl?

[spice flicker]

Koriel Zeth and Ipluvien Maximal are both arch magos from the Mechanicum book in the horus heresy but um let's just say they were active right at the start of the schism of Mars and were very epic characters in terms of deeds, accomplishments and just who they were. Lexell Kotov was the leader of the expedition that the Forges of Mars omnibus was centered around and had a general demeanor as well as an epic moment where he said "I'm an Archmagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I can do whatever I want."

Kotov also had a moment in the series where he is leading a team to explore an area alongside a Black Templar and actually managed to talk down and make the complaining space marine Sergeant shut up:

‘How much farther down do you believe we need to go, archmagos?’ asked [Sergeant] Tanna.

‘I believe we are close, sergeant,’ replied Kotov.

‘With every level we descend, the danger increases.’

‘We are explorators, Sergeant Tanna,’ Kotov reminded him. ‘Danger comes with the territory.’

‘You are an explorator, I am a warrior.’

'Then you should be used to danger, sergeant,’ snapped Kotov.

The Space Marine’s anger was unmistakable, but Kotov paid it no attention and moved past him to join Dahan.

[upper bluff]

Black Templar destroyed with facts and logic

[uneven ember]

"What are you, chicken?"

[past sphinx]

showin a lotta ass for a creature without fear there bud

[thin ibex]

Silly fire knights

When the knights don't want to roll to hit

[valid brook]

And They Shall Show No Ass

[solemn gull]

Played my first match of Killteam 2

It was alright

[unreal cosmos]

https://vxtwitter.com/AndroidArts/status/1785596211791036546 really dig Android's bit of tinkering with really old-school models and sprites and making them look appealing without sacrificing their appeal

Also, unrelated, I've been kicking around ideas for what route I might take if I wind up going in on AoS 4E, and I'm curious if anyone knows a good place for an ocean-themed Stormkeep?

[pulsar cairn]

Are storm keep related to those big Sigmar soldiers?

I remember they having storm in their name

[jaunty dawn]

mhm

stormkeeps are their garrisons

for protecting realmgates and ciites

[unreal cosmos]

Update: might wind up going with these guys https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Celestial_Warbringers

It seems like they're mostly fleshed out via the RPG, which gives an interesting flavor

[floral herald]

Who’d you play? How did it go?

[solemn gull]

played krieg with that starter set, lost in turn 3

[floral herald]

Aw dang that’s a rough start

[solemn gull]

Nah

The ork team is just better I think

They have so many wounds

I gave my opponent a model from my necromunda team though since he won

[floral herald]

They’re pretty balanced against one another as teams but iirc the basic starter set terrain really favors the Commandoz since it has no vantage points

So their lurk around in Conceal until they can charge strat is a lot harder for a shooting centric team like vetguard to handle

[jaunty dawn]

the ancillary supports aren't quite worth not having a full team either

[spice flicker]

Idk if the next time I get to be the Rogue Trader in the tabletop rpg if I want the RT to be more along the lines of Lord Cutler Beckett (Pirates of the Caribbean), Lyle Rourke (Atlantis), hybrid of the two, or something else.

[floral herald]

Yeah it’s very hard to compete with “4 more rifles”

[solemn gull]

Be the change you want to see in the world

[spice flicker]

Oh?

[solemn gull]

You better go all out and bring a powdered wig

[spice flicker]

If I go the Beckett route I'll need to find a way to entrap a warp entity into obedience and use it to help conquer part of a segmentum.

[jaunty dawn]

you should never not be doing that in a rt campaign tbh

[spice flicker]

Oh I know I was just joking around and making a reference to Beckett's control over Davy Jones.

[thin ibex]

so, seeing as how battleshock isnt explicitly just morale breaking but can also just be like tactically being put on the back foot and so on

is hte nid synapsis effect meant to indicate how quickly they adapt to a tactical shift?

i.e. a unit in synapsis recovered from the unexpected turn of events better

[plucky token]

Makes sense to me

[south axle]

Skaven aren't gone until they are gone

[pastel rampart]

d3 feels like a pithy amount of models unless there's spells/heroes that can increase that amount.

[jaunty dawn]

they might be locked at units of 10 each in spearhead

[still warren]

It's also for spearhead not a full match game

That's not actually their full battlescroll

[floral herald]

s e e t h i n g

I love that special rule name

[jaunty dawn]

save being green is still so confusing

[still warren]

Might be more in non spearhead games because they have reinforcements for spearhead (comes back as a new unit after being destroyed)

[junior robin]

well green is the safest of colours

[south axle]

Imagine non-Spearhead Seething Swarm was 2d6

[ebon forge]

His shovel was bigger

[pastel rampart]

"Think fast chucklenuts"

[upper canopy]

The whole fucking downward swing into it

Krieger getting hit with the Monster Hunter Charged Swing

[pastel rampart]

Head cracking open like a coconut.

[unreal cosmos]

affix THIS bayonet

[ebon forge]

This is a chaos beast right?

[pulsar cairn]

i have question

dont u think this lad is friend shaped?

[quaint compass]

Das a maulerfiend, a daemon-engine

[ebon forge]

thank

[ebon forge]

100% but at anytime he can say "So the gods said that, for chaos to lose, I must murder you" and nothing will cahnge his mind

[ebon forge]

thank ya!

[south axle]

The '00s metal model of Slann is very frend shaped, but also very weapon shaped

Very solid

[lament light]

He also declared war on continental drift that one time

He won, though. It caused the fall of the Dwarfen Empire but details

[tired cairn]

I think it represents a combination of it being hard to think when a million voices are screaming in your head (more relevant to psykers) and certain types of communication blackout (harder for astropathic communication and wrap travel)

[floral herald]

Units in synapse are also commanded by the hive mind and the hive mind doesn't get overwhelmed or scared

[jaunty dawn]

tyranids outside synapse also just like

aren't in a strategic command network

they're just guys

like a termagant outside synapse is just gonna hide and shoot anything that comes near its hiding place. it doesn't know shit about tactical objectives or whatever

[floral herald]

• vacant eyes
• standing still
• drooping fleshborer
  his ass is NOT doing the will of the hive mind

[solemn gull]

Lag

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ageofsigmar/comments/1chrzrx/since_im_totaly_in_the_theme_for_aos_v4_i_think_i/

😮

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/rdzdoodles/status/1783648478750486660

https://fxtwitter.com/rdzdoodles/status/1784024038978834679

https://fxtwitter.com/rdzdoodles/status/1785763279102472230

[solemn gull]

Is that a child inquisitor

[crisp lance]

sister of battle possibly

[crisp lance]

this one is her grow up as a sister of battle

[solemn gull]

I mean the symbol on the chest is an =I=

As far as I am aware only the inquisition uses that

[jaunty dawn]

nah theres an I for pretty much every organisation

[solemn gull]

Really?

[jaunty dawn]

this is what she has

[solemn gull]

Is that the symbol of a SoB order?

[jaunty dawn]

the symbol of the adeptus ministorium/the ecclessiarchy. basically their version of the cross for rosaries n such

[solemn gull]

Huh the more you know I guess

[jaunty dawn]

whereas the inquisition just has three lines representing the three main ordos

[solemn gull]

Didn’t read it as grown up either so I was wondering if they had really tiny sets of power armour

[plucky token]

it is very similar to the Inquisitorial Rosette, so i can't blame you for being confused, haha

[jaunty dawn]

another example is the arbites

and then you have these which is the symbol of the imperial navy/fleet

despite not beeing super distinct especially when it doesnt include the cross detail haha

so yeah its a really easy mistake to make

[solemn gull]

Surprised there haven’t been any major mix ups between different groups since they all use basically the exact same insignia for their ultra elite units

[soft willow]

Mistaken identity of imperial iconography is heresy, so everyone gets real good at spotting the differences.

[uneven ember]

They're all supposed to represent pillars on which the Imperium rests.

[floral herald]

I thought it was just "I" for "Imperium" tbh

[uneven ember]

also I love the Navy breacher team look.
It's like a militant diving suit.

[floral herald]

So good I got 2 boxes

[soft willow]

I mean that too yeah?

[floral herald]

(Lets not talk about how I haven't put them together yet)

I like the pillars one I had just assumed that

Though =I= just being short for =I=nquisition was what I initially thought it was

[uneven ember]

I'm genuinely clueless what level of bullshit retcon all this is.

But by DH1 they were definitely going with "pillars"

which I remember because it had this great org chart of the various Imperial Adepta which was absolute nonsense

[floral herald]

Usually the thing for this is that all the imperial iconography has all the ascribed meanings

There's like 2-3 different "here's what each part of the imperial eagle represents" and they are all a little different

[uneven ember]

Yeah, that is legit.

I also am reminded of how, in Paranoia, a lot of the secret societies had hand signals they'd use to identify themselves.
Except there was usually another secret society who had a really similar hand signal so you always had to be careful.

[jaunty dawn]

theres also the retroactive origin of being based on the symbol of malcador iirc

this one

[thin ibex]

Hmm no theme but what faction to list make for tonight

[bright dove]

Hedonites of Slaanesh

[uneven ember]

okay I kind of like this just because the more Mal is directly responsible for the funnier it is that literally nobody in M41 remembers his name

[thin ibex]

Not quite hedonites, tried for a EC themed csm list

[tired cairn]

It being an I for Imperium would make a lot of sense in an universe where the land raider is named after someone named Arkhan Land

[steep wasp]

Slannesh and Nurgle are basically the same thing in my eyes.

Their both full of diseases at least

[ebon forge]

it looks like the symbol is just going "I just CAN'T with you right now, urgh"

[pulsar cairn]

Last time we talked about skitari

I ended up with the thought "oh maybe it aint all that bad to be one"

but their guns are...well

If im not wrong

Hitting them with radiation

[jaunty dawn]

it's kinda a tossup whether the augmentations still put them further ahead than their guardsman counterpart

but also in the skitarii cult I'm pretty sure radiation is seen as a blessing from the omnissiah

[pulsar cairn]

That sounds like fallout crap right there

But fits the admech vibe

So getting killed by radiation is probably seen as a positive thing?

[jaunty dawn]

not neccessarily something that's chased but a fitting end to completion of duty yeah

cause it means like, you didn't get killed by the enemy

but also the whole idea of vanguard is compared to a regular human they're practically immune to radiation so

it does eventually get to them but not quickly and like the accumulated exposure would be pretty massive

[pulsar cairn]

Right

[thin ibex]

EC back in the day was the... biker and sound marine oriented sub faction?