it shouldnt exist
#Warhammer and Such
thin ibex
jaunty dawn
I think there are units that flourish and flounder in each 'system'
thin ibex
for sure, but i think non-options on units are an extra level of granularity that can sometimes be neat and other times be a waste
and often it can be from a perspective of "was this thing designed as an option with gameplay in mind, or was it flavor given stats?"
Options, in general, should be allowing you to make meaningful choices, rather than meaningless ones
and imo there is absolutely a difference between off-meta and meaningless
jaunty dawn
no I agree
thin ibex
ironically, i think (as an example) 9th ed tau did the crisis options better than index 10th tau
jaunty dawn
once the codex came out especially
uneven ember
As a Templars player, I always hated how through, like
7th? 8th?
You have this whole list of cool flavorful Vows that you can take for the army, so either every time you make the list or before you deploy (depending on edition) you could read them over, think it through, consider all the different ways this could effect your game, and then take Accept Any Challenge No Matter The Odds again because obviously.
(Maybe Uphold The Honor in a game against Tau. Maybe.)
jaunty dawn
9th
pretty sure templars didn't really especially have rules before then until you get to like
3rd ish
uneven ember
Got the first dedicated rulesets in the Armageddon Codex back in 3rd, along with Salamanders, Speed Freaks, and the Steel Legion.
(Also rules for just putting your Necromunda minis in 40K games, underhive gang militias)
First dedicated codex in 5th.
I'm just saying tho, it fell into the trap where you had "options" but one option is just so good compared to the rest that you're either a sucker or doing some kind of self-imposed handicap.
thin ibex
its nice when you can make flavor picks that actually still work ok for sure
instead of "am i at all effective or am i narratively sound with my concept"
jaunty dawn
definitely
I think detachments are kinda an improvement there
like even if only a couple are 'viable' there's at least usually a niche
thin ibex
i agree, ithink there are still the "better" detachments, but most have some sort of place
jaunty dawn
but it really depends tbf
thin ibex
i think the worst offender might be the 1st company taskforce so far
as far as being kind of lackluster overall
floral herald
As a Templars player, I always hated how through, like
7th? 8th?
You have this w...
It makes sense taking any other Vow is technically not Accepting Any Challange
Lore accurate
thin ibex
"Accept A Few Challenges"
uneven ember
It makes sense taking any other Vow is technically not Accepting Any Challange
Unless someone challenged me to play a game with a Vow that's not as good as Accept Any Challenge.
floral herald
I'll avoid linking the whole thing since he sucks but "Horus (the Woke)" is so funny
I need to make a model of this or something now
brisk mountain
That's some next level brain rot
floral herald
Horus "the woke" Lupercal (from sigmarxism I think)
Honestly the tweet is really funny too because Horus (the woke) won pretty much completely at Istvaan 5 too
soft willow
I mean… would you like us to lie to you?
still warren
I'll avoid linking the whole thing since he sucks but "Horus (the Woke)" is so f...
3/8 makes it so much funnier
thin ibex
yeah thats tragically hilarious
It reads a lot like a heated thread about opposing the Mcdonalds Mcrib or something
brisk mountain
I keep going back to read it and chuckling
uneven ember
yeah they
they're out in force these last days
But hey, Bo's trying to pivot to EVE? I think? So I'm kinda hopeful that someday I might be able to talk about my Templars without having to be like "but not like those guys"
jaunty dawn
this is just like when the fascist empire collapsed in on itself we are just like that right now
brisk mountain
I mean the twitter neo-nazis sure are collapsing right now, because women dared to exist
floral herald
But hey, Bo's trying to pivot to EVE? I think? So I'm kinda hopeful that someday...
Mood I like every kind of space marine which wears black armor and its sometimes uncomfortable haha
uneven ember
Yeah they're all kind of great.
(When I call him "such a basic-ass mall goth he named himself 'Raven' twice" that's meant affectionately.)
desert jay
Mood I like every kind of space marine which wears black armor and its sometimes...
Have I got a pic for you
https://preview.redd.it/bc7q93y96g9b1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=7d9406084f20754d7706cd44ad744ecf66cd252d
floral herald
There's a chapter called the "yellow jackets"?
uneven ember
(I love the Black Dragons also.)
(Just the whole "we are completely normal non-mutated geneseed, nothing to worry about" while they're growing horns and bone-knives.)
junior robin
well they are at least not on fire.
uneven ember
The Cursed ("Funniest") Founding.
Also love how some of the 21st Founding chapters are like "they have freaky mutations" or "they burst into magic fire" and some of them are like "they're just really fucking obnoxious."
proud wing
hey, the painting people came up with 200 new color schemes, the lore people had to pull overtime thinking of identities for all of them
tired cairn
Warplock Pistols being "Reliable" is funny to me.
jaunty dawn
for real
jaunty dawn
oh just saw someone point out that with how spell lores work now it's unlikely there'll be any multilore factions and that kinda explains the move away from warplocks being wizards
since currently skaven have two seperate lores that you access simultaneously
still warren
Yeah seems like it would require too many caveats on the datasheet if engineer had wizard(1)
Would also need to say they weren't allowed to dispell spells
tired cairn
Does magic still use the winds of magic in AoS?
pastel rampart
First dedicated codex in 5th.
4th, actually.
tired cairn
I can see reasons why a warplock could dispel magic. Though now I want skaven to have a giant fan that only affects magical currents lol
uneven ember
4th, actually.
Was it? Thought it was 5th.
huh okay yup mb
south axle
Does/will AoS have the functionality of hero's leading units?
still warren
Was confirmed today it will not
south axle
Oki
jaunty dawn
in 3 there was a repeating rule concept of a hero and another unit fighting together
a lot of specific heroes had it and there was a competetive season abt it
which is kinda the closest
south axle
Mostly wondered if the Warlock's reaction could be applied to a unit of Jezzails or not
still warren
Well it's an aura and will effect them
jaunty dawn
no this is his overcharge ability
still warren
Oh yeah ignore misread
tired cairn
It's interesting that the aura is "wholly within". Is that a previous standard in AoS?
still warren
There's been both
south axle
But looking forward to new Jezzails, they have always been a fave unit of mine even if I have never owned one
still warren
The overcharge ability I would be surprised if jezzails didn't have it as well
jaunty dawn
I think there's been a lot more wholly within abilities than in 40k though
but higher ranges
south axle
Kinda want to make a Skaven army that is like 1-2 units to screen/bog down the enemy, some Skryre to plink away at the enemy from safety and a bunch of Eshin to stab the enemy in the back
thin ibex
If you're imperial and a mercenary, is being hired by a rogue trader one of the best gigs you can get?
floral herald
Maybe
Rogue traders are anything but consistent and you’ll wind up in a lot of fights
tired cairn
If you get hired onto the ship, you will get the most "exciting" jobs. But most of them will probably to put down some rebellion or another on one of the dynasty's worlds
pastel rampart
uneven ember
I feel like Nurgle's thing is less "it doesn't hurt/ smell" and more "you don't care."
uneven ember
There have been a few takes on Nurge over the years but my favorite is the one where he embodies despair, but not in the "FEAR YOUR DOOM" sort of way, more that when you're at your very lowest he's right there with you like
"climb up from here? all that effort, just so you can start sliding right back down? nah, man, you can chill down at rock bottom with me. You don't need to try. Fuck it, am I right?"
If everything is as bad as it could be, nothing can ever get worse! 
solemn gull
If you're imperial and a mercenary, is being hired by a rogue trader one of the...
Probably, all the positives of working for a noble but with 40% less chances of being caught up in power struggles since your rival houses probably dont have agents on your ship
upper canopy
Nurgle isn't about making you feel better
It's about finding joy and endurance in your worst
jaunty dawn
nurgle is about stopping people from saying bless you when you sneeze
bright dove
Nurgle worshippers will try to bless you with their sneezes.
muted elm
if nurgle is about giving up on making things any better and letting the rot consume, does that mean the Imperiums stagnancy and the violent enforcement therof is Nurglite?
uneven ember
yes.
brisk mountain
I think the Imperium basically passively just benefits the chaos gods even if they don't want to admit it, all 4 of them
upper bluff
Can you empower a chaos god on accident?
uneven ember
oh my, yes. </farnsworth>
upper bluff
I assumed with the whole warp emotion stuff you would need to have a bit of intent
Like if I self sabotage myself
Like potatoes on my forehead instead of Tylenol when I'm sick
Like I'm trying to cure it
lucid scarab
The whole idea of the chaos gods is that they are manifestions of human emotions and subconscious in the warp.
Conscious and unconscious
upper bluff
Oh 🤦 subconscious it was right there
brisk mountain
To my understanding, and I actually have a kinda weak grasp of 40K lore TBH, the chaos gods are like entropic manifestations of emotions
Yeah
uneven ember
Like, enjoying a nice bottle of wine and a pleasant sunset isn't the same as snorting lines off a Daemonette at a masked orgy.
brisk mountain
Except slaanesh, that's all the Eldar's fault
lucid scarab
Intentionally summoning or invoking chaos powers usually has a bad outcome tho. It’s just worse when there’s intention.
uneven ember
There's a quote from way back that the IoM isn't going to destroy Chaos any more than a person could destroy their own shadow.
pastel rampart
Except slaanesh, that's all the Eldar's fault
Yes, though thanks to how the warp works, the moment Slaanesh was born they existed retroactively and so humans got to throw a ton of influence in there too.
bright dove
Intentionally summoning or invoking chaos powers usually has a bad outcome tho. ...
It's the difference between accidentally spreading germs and actively trying to get other people sick.
uneven ember
I love that "causality is kind of a guideline" is an explicit part of 40K's metaphysics.
pastel rampart
The daemon prince N'Kari is ancient, having existed well before Slaanesh came into being, but thanks to causality being what it is he was around before the Heresy started.
Time is more a funny bit of play-dough to the chaos gods.
brisk mountain
Yes, though thanks to how the warp works, the moment Slaanesh was born they exis...
Aaah, I see
uneven ember
I also had a bit of heretical lore in one of my 40K games that went something like
"In the beginning there was only Tzeentch, and so all was change, without restraint or definition.
But change in all things and all times, without starting point or end, without solidity and constancy to define against, is perfect stagnation and constancy.
And so cunning Tzeentch sent forth the Weft, solidity and causality in opposition to him that he could defy and that could defy him."
soft willow
I also had a bit of heretical lore in one of my 40K games that went something li...
This is exactly how chaos cults start.
uneven ember
_>
pulsar cairn
It's about finding joy and endurance in your worst
So that's like...the positive aspect of nurgle?
cause...the chaos gods also represent a few positive things right?
Like Tzeench represents Hope as well
Slaneesh also gets fed from people feeling joy(not the joy of torturing people)
What about Khorne tho?
floral herald
Martial honor, victory, that kind of thing
rocky shale
A khorne demon wont stab you in the back, but they will stab you 13 times in the front.
A tzeench demon wont stab you in the front, but they'll spend 13 years plotting on how best to stab you in the back.
A slaanesh demon will stab themselves, you, and five other people to get a consensus on the best place to stab someone.
A nurgle demon will blow its nose on you and give you polio. No stabbing.
brittle salmon
yeah Khorne's positive aspects are very much centered around honourable combat/martial honour
I played a Khorne Berserker in a BC game who leant very heavily into those aspects
runic swallow
Even if you beat Khorne demon, your victory is pleasing to Khorne
brittle salmon
Went completely against typecast and was a thoughtful, patient individual
Still threw himself into the thick of any melee with no second thoughts but he wasn't a screaming meathead
runic swallow
I could actually see a more measured Khornate doing very well in the IW, since by creating interlocking killzones of bunkers and pre-sighted artillery you can do a hell of a lot more than just running at the enemy
Ending every forward artillery observer’s call for fire with a prayer to Khorne
muted elm
Khornate Commisar who’s a little too into the whole industrialized violence thing. Executing people for not killing and dying enough also fits.
brittle salmon
I could actually see a more measured Khornate doing very well in the IW, since b...
Yeah that'd be dope
runic swallow
Actually wait, aren’t the villains in the Gaunts Ghosts series a sorta modern military that just happens to be Khorne worshippers?
brittle salmon
I leant hard enough into the positive Khorne aspects with my character he went as far as to spare prisoners and put down threats to his second in command peacefully, reasoning "nursing the hatred they undoubtfully feel will create even greater, perpetual bloodshed further down the line"
brittle salmon
Actually wait, aren’t the villains in the Gaunts Ghosts series a sorta modern mi...
The Blood Pact? Yeah pretty much
runic swallow
I leant hard enough into the positive Khorne aspects with my character he went a...
A chain of command at each others throats leads to inefficiency, lessening battlefield effectiveness
solemn gull
The Blood Pact? Yeah pretty much
I wish there were more groups out there like the blood pact
brittle salmon
A chain of command at each others throats leads to inefficiency, lessening battl...
exactly!
brittle salmon
I wish there were more groups out there like the blood pact
They're great villains yeah
I'm very fond of any depiction of Chaos that isn't "generic raving madman"
solemn gull
I also really like the dark mechanicum that became hereteks simply because they thought the imperium was too restrictive
brittle salmon
Part of why I particularly liked that one Iron Warriors animation on WH+
thin ibex
Is nice when the not- extremes of chaos worship are explored
Even under the context of the inevitable extreme, though also it's nice to present variations on the extreme
tired cairn
There have been a few takes on Nurge over the years but my favorite is the one w...
Nurgle is untreated major depression?
uneven ember
Nurgle is untreated major depression?
Yes.
If you don't care about anything, that makes you invincible.
bright dove
I could actually see a more measured Khornate doing very well in the IW, since b...
Once again, I come suggesting Storm of Iron, because there is a Khornate Iron Warrior there.
runic swallow
I read it, have a copy somewhere
upper canopy
Nurgle is untreated major depression?
Nurgle is when you get depressed and don't shower for a week
ebon forge
I think the Imperium basically passively just benefits the chaos gods even if th...
And that's why the Chaos Gods won, right?
The Emperor talks about that in 'Emperor of Mankind', how the Imperium has lost (That wne Magnus did the fucky wucky)
That, no matter the outcome, what Horus and his legion did will forever scar the imperium and has already destroyed Big E plan, and now is slowing down the decline
ebon forge
Me searching for The emperor's legion book
"Here you go buddy"
bright dove
And that's why the Chaos Gods won, right?
The Emperor talks about that in 'Emper...
Well, the Chaos Gods were kinda forced to act by Big E. His plan was going to have enough of an effect on them that they had to nip it in the bud.
thin ibex
I always got the impression that big Es plan was to eventually calm the warp, but that his plan was inherently flawed to begin with
And that the web way plan was part of that
ebon forge
Yeah is one of the reasons he wanted to kill all Xenos, push all humans to the webway, let the chaos god starve to death, make sure everything else is death so they don't feed the Chaos Gods
Was it flawed? Yeah, because GG killing all Xenos.
But Magnus fucked everything up and Horus tainted the Imperium in a way you can't reverse it for sure
Does not help Lorgar wrote the Imperium's Bible
pulsar cairn
Kek
bright dove
The gods very actively worked to make the Imperium what it is today
ebon forge
The gods very actively worked to make the Imperium what it is today
And they won
You can argue that they wanted Horus to lose so they had the Imperium to farm
upper bluff
The teaser had so much about engines and hooves I'm almost expecting a new soul grinder
bright dove
And they won
You can argue that they wanted Horus to lose so they had the Imperi...
I do say that is the case
desert jay
The teaser had so much about engines and hooves I'm almost expecting a new soul ...
Could also be a defiler
bright dove
The Heresy is Horus and Petty Perty having to hard carry their most unstable brothers and Magnus
thin ibex
new defiler with new rules would actually be sick
it has a kind of lukewarm special rule
which i think holds it back rn
ebon forge
Ah yes Magnus "FATHER THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU" The Wall-breaker
ebon forge
The Heresy is Horus and Petty Perty having to hard carry their most unstable bro...
But yeah pretty much
And Big E was holding back on Horus, because he thought he could still try to see him change and see he was wrong.
upper bluff
Either way I hope it is a new daemon engine since Vashtor is getting a detachment (and hopefully better rules)
ebon forge
oh yeah Vashtor is athing, i need to see more about him
The rumored 5th chaos god
upper bluff
+1 strength to daemon engines in six inches is a joke
desert jay
Mortarion isn’t too unstable I think… he’s just kinda heel draggy about the whole thing
upper bluff
oh yeah Vashtor is athing, i need to see more about him
The rumored 5th chaos go...
I'm a believer in 11th edition dark mechanicum
ebon forge
Morty is just pissy and unhappy all the time
upper bluff
10th ends with Vashtorr getting a win and 11th starts with a chaos mechanicus faction
ebon forge
Angron I argue became a caricature of himself when he became a Daemon Prince
bright dove
Magnus is just depressed
desert jay
Dude just wants to have a nice farm
ebon forge
Ins't that Robutt?
bright dove
Kurze decided to just die
ebon forge
Magnus is just depressed
magnus on his own pitty piss party
desert jay
Emperor: “Farming, really? A man of your talents?”
Mortarion: “It’s a peaceful life”
bright dove
Lorgar has been rewarded with the most ironic of hells
jaunty dawn
thing with anything codex csm isn't likely to come out for like at least another 3 years
just getting new chaos lords this time
desert jay
Kurze decided to just die
He saw it in a vision and was like “yeah sure, proves I’m right too!”
upper bluff
thing with anything codex csm isn't likely to come out for like at least another...
Oh yeah maybe it's just a necromunda model
bright dove
Still the pettiest man alive
jaunty dawn
also no trim so not really a csm style daemon engine
upper bluff
Necromunda gangers have hooves sometimes, right? And horse skulls
ebon forge
Still the pettiest man alive
If only his adoptive father let him build that damn bathhouse
jaunty dawn
it's also what else has that style of painting
bright dove
If only his adoptive father let him build that damn bathhouse
Look, he was always going to snap
jaunty dawn
cause the main thing comes to mind is eavy metal vior'la which doesn't seem to be. applicable here
ebon forge
Look, he was always going to snap
Well yes.
But one thing is snapping while being the pettiest thing alive with an army of murder shooters
Another is snapping surrounded by supportive people that showed kindness to you
bright dove
Fair
ebon forge
Arthur made a good video about Petter and yeah I agree, i love Hammer of Olympía because it is so sad
bright dove
Except Lorgar
ebon forge
Lorgar is a snob fuck that deserved what came to him
Morty I have to read more on him, because on the surface he's just Peter Turbo 2 but gave a fuck about his legion
junior robin
you know another colour that shows up like that in B/W?
yellow
and who is yellow and now got a cool robot hand?
jaunty dawn
imperial fists confirmed
junior robin
ROGAL DORN CONFIRMED
ebon forge
and who is yellow and now got a cool robot hand?
PISS BOYS GANG
bright dove
Angron, Kurze, and Perty were never going to be OK sadly
ebon forge
Angron is the most tragic, born to be a healer, but got his brain scooped to become murder
bright dove
Angron is the most tragic, born to be a healer, but got his brain scooped to bec...
The poor guy
bright dove
The Emperor was positively patient with Lorgar, considering he kept pushing on his biggest pet peeve
jaunty dawn
and I think the plate that's facing away from the viewer is a trimmy-deal actually
ebon forge
The Emperor was positively patient with Lorgar, considering he kept pushing on h...
Lorgar brought that upon himself, he was told to stop and drop it but kept doing it
jaunty dawn
and you know who has a claw with a flamer attached
bright dove
oh hang about
I'll put forth the funny vote. Ikit Claw
bright dove
Could also be Lugft Huron
ebon forge
If it was Dorn I argue it would be too soon, the Lion barely came back
jaunty dawn
I think skaven stuff is more metallic and tube-y
upper bluff
As a prospective Red Corsairs fan I would flip at a new Huron model
I'm certain it's not though
jaunty dawn
I think it might be huron!!!
pastel rampart
Angron, Kurze, and Perty were never going to be OK sadly
All three could have been better had their father given even an iota of a flying fuck about them. Even their personalities and instabilities could've been tempered if Emps had just, y'know. Shown some support.
jaunty dawn
if not it's someone who's janked his fit
pastel rampart
Angron needed Emps to save his people, Perty needed to be played to his real strengths (making cool shit and being rewarded), Kurze needed Emps to explain those visions better (aka at all).
bright dove
All three *could* have been better had their father given even an iota of a flyi...
I don't think saving Angron's people would have helped the Nails
Would it have been nice, sure
But he was always going to be Khorne catnip
ebon forge
Aside from bringing Angron family to the ship or at least helping them, tehre is not much what it could be done.
Big E really tried to remove the nails without killing him, but he saw it was impossible
too much of his brain was just the nails
bright dove
Perty was just going to be miserable, even with the things he liked. Even before he got really bad, he was a punishment detail
pastel rampart
I think saving his people would've removed one element of resentment from Angron.
ebon forge
Agreed
pastel rampart
And I think that would've been really important!
ebon forge
Might had made him stay Loyal
pastel rampart
Not being able to remove the nails would've gone over a lot smoother if Emps also saved Angron's people and might've prevented him from turning.
ebon forge
And not allowing his entire fucking legion to go nails too
bright dove
And there was that whole carving competition Perty had with his human brother
pastel rampart
That too.
bright dove
And not allowing his entire fucking legion to go nails too
See, that's the bigger issue
ebon forge
And Magnus-
Shit I don't know honestly
Because in the moment big E could not just 'poof cured' his legion
bright dove
Magnus did nothing wrong, and that's what fucked him
ebon forge
What fucked him it was his gigantic ego of thinking he knew better
bright dove
Tzeentch was always going to fuck him over, no matter what
bright dove
What fucked him it was his gigantic ego of thinking he knew better
Also the Emperor explained nothing
ebon forge
Fucking Peter did to him
as much as Peter could, he showed actual care and worry for Magnus
jaunty dawn
like a dozen societies including two other space marine legions managed to not fuck up without the emperor explaining anything tbf
jaunty dawn
I'm talking about the space wolves and the white scars
bright dove
Jaghati is also rather even handed, which helped
jaunty dawn
off topic but is the exalted champion still in the codex?
ebon forge
I hear people like him
From all Loyalists I think the lest worst to live under is Guilliman's
pastel rampart
Vulkan too, probably.
ebon forge
If you can survive the planet conditions, ye
pastel rampart
Same with Sangy. Baal's not a nice place but he seemed a fair ruler.
ebon forge
What fucks me up is how Dante kept Baal a shit place on porpuse until Guilliman made him terraform it
Pre-Heresy Fulgrin seems nice too
pastel rampart
Baal being terrible is a whole Thing with marines in their belief that harsh conditions will produce good marines.
Which, jury's still out on that.
ebon forge
Ultramarines votes on no
pastel rampart
pine matrix
Fuck yes
upper bluff
off topic but is the exalted champion still in the codex?
the new one who knows, but it should be?
jaunty dawn
I mean peoples knows
it got leaked
I don't remember seeing it get removed? but it's a unit whose official model hasnt been in production for literally years
unreal cosmos
Baal being terrible is a whole Thing with marines in their belief that harsh con...
Apparently when the Imperium discovered Fenris they started shipping over people from other feral worlds simply because they loved the idea of making as many burly barbarian astartes as possible
spice flicker
I was working on "remastering" the 1k guard list I designed a while back after getting a new idea for it. Well one thing led to another and I decided to make another little meme list I call "mortars Galore" or how many mortars can I get for 2k points:
Mortars Galore
Astra Militarum - combined arms
2000/2000
Cadian castellan, warlord, power fist, plasma pistol
Cardian command squad, 2x power fists, 2x plasma pistol
1x20 cadian shock troops, vox caster, 2x grenade launchers, 2x plasma guns
5x10 cadian shock troops, vox caster, grenade launcher
6x20 infantry squads, vox caster, 2x mortars, 2x grenade launchers
3x heavy weapon teams, 3x mortars
2x2 scout sentinels, Lascannons
3x wyverns, wyvern quad stormshard mortars, heavy bolters
21 mortars+3 quad mortars≈33 mortars
If you consider grenade launchers to be smaller mortars then it goes up to 52 mortar-like guns for 2000 points
jaunty dawn
it got leaked
now I'm starting to feel like I dreamt this though
jaunty dawn
I don't think it was the codex itself
I might have been thinking about the list for orks tbh
upper bluff
😦
jaunty dawn
sorry!
tired cairn
like a dozen societies including two other space marine legions managed to not f...
Though, an approximately 1/12 failure rate is really bad if said failure totally ruins your plans to save humanity
jaunty dawn
I mean the great crusade involved killing a bunch of them haha
the emperor tolerated reckless thousand sons far more than experienced cultures that resisted his rule
despite claiming to hate the warp. curious
tired cairn
He didn't want to sit on the throne for all eternity
jaunty dawn
in terms of like the space marine legions it's like. 2 knew what they were doing and were safe about it. 1 knew what they were doing and was dangerous on purpose and kickstarted the heresy. 1 thought they knew what they were doing and were just fucking around
everyone else is just sorta in the middle
so that's like 1 in 9?
tired cairn
Who was the last one?
jaunty dawn
White Scars and Space Wolves, Word Bearers, Thousand Sons respectively
tired cairn
Kind of 2/9?
spice flicker
Which of these 1k lists do you think would be better to go with for a crusade?
Crusade List A
Astra Militarum - combined arms
995/1000
Cadian castellan, warlord, power fist, plasma pistol
Commissar
3x10 cadian shock troops, plasma gun
1x10 kasrkins, plasma pistol, 2x plasma guns, hotshot marksman rifle, 2x hot shot volley guns
2x rogal dorn battle tanks, 3x heavy subbers, 2x heavy bolters, pulveriser cannon, oppressor cannon with coaxial autocannon
2x scout sentinels, lascannons
Crusade List B
Astra Militarum - combined arms
1000/1000
Cadian castellan, warlord, power fist, plasma pistol
Cardian command squad, 2x power fists, 2x plasma pistol
Commissar
3x10 cadian shock troops, vox caster, plasma gun
1x10 catachan jungle fighters, 2x flamers,
2x10 infantry squads, vox caster, plasma gun
1x rapier laser destroyer battery (had the points so why not?)
2x scout sentinels, lascannons
4x Chimera, all heavy bolter
1x Chimera, all heavy flamers
jaunty dawn
If I have a point it's that magnus and the tsons absolutely did do wrong, the emperor did so much wrong, those wrongs compounded catastrophically
the emperor is as much to blame for everything that happened with the webway as magnus
(and he deserved it)
tired cairn
It's pretty amazing how the Emperor failed at all his major goals
spice flicker
Hubris is the root of all the problems of the Horus heresy
bright dove
the emperor is as much to blame for everything that happened with the webway as ...
He could have left instructions to bother Malcador as well
Because you know who knew the whole plan? Fucking Malcador
spice flicker
Emperor's hubris is self evident in how it led to downfall, Robute's doubt and hubris led to Imperium secondus without trying to lend aid outside of ultramar, lion's pride led to him being oblivious to what was going on back on his homeworld, Luthor's injured pride caused half the dark angels to fall, magnus' hubris led to him breaching the webway, ahriman and the other 1k sons arrogance led to them being overwhelmed on Prospero and dismiss the threat of their familiars/disguised warp daemons, Fulgrim's pride and hubris led to slaaneshi influences,
ebon forge
So 40k message is:
DON'T BE AN FUCKING ASSHOLE YOU SNOB FUCK
And be kind
Even Angron was able to be kind post-nails twice
And one of those times it was with Lorgar from all people
All because from all brothers Lorgar was the kindest with him consistently
Still a fucking asshole and it was never all rainbows
desert jay
Thinking about BDG's "I read every Halo book" and imagining what "I read every 40K book" would be like
At 3 books a week (a really fast pace) it would still take like 2 years
ebon forge
how theh ell do you read 3 books, 300pages each, a week
runic swallow
I mean I’ve done it
Hell, I was assigned to do it multiple times a week at grad school lol
desert jay
Yeah it's doable
People have read the longer HP books overnight
(They lost sleep to do it, but...)
runic swallow
And 40k books are significantly less dense than academic articles or books
ebon forge
And 40k books are significantly less dense than academic articles or books
I took a month to read the Betrayer, how you do it
Mad props
runic swallow
¯_(ツ)_/¯
tired cairn
This is great
quaint compass
how theh ell do you read 3 books, 300pages each, a week
I (can) read a 400 page book in a day
(I am barely employed)
ebon forge
Holyterra
runic swallow
Reading is kinda one of those things where it seems like it never makes sense how others can read faster or slower than you
quaint compass
Yeah, but I can imagine it being a focus thing. I have to chug through academic texts, but I can devour things I'm into (unless it's bad, then it becomes academic).
solemn gull
The bigger your glasses are the faster you read because your brain uses less processing power on graphics
solemn gull
Bubbles is an academic
quaint compass
Edutated man
ebon forge
Having severe ADHD must effect a tad too
quaint compass
Verily
I am ADD-afflicted, but I do believe I've got a slight fixation on fantasy, and reading about it
ebon forge
And I do admit i rush on some parts, most battles are a bit boring, somehow
quaint compass
Action, itself, isn't interesting.
You gotta have good description, good prose, smart pacing, and set-up/pay-off. Any one point can make an action scene founder.
thin ibex
I remember reading a translation of romance of the 3 kingdoms
Combat was "they fought 53 bouts, then they went back to camp"
It was not particularly exciting
quaint compass
Brief though!
ebon forge
At least brief, yeah
pulsar cairn
thin ibex
Hmm who to make an army for today
ebon forge
A good 10e Custodes army with the leaked rules -runs
upper bluff
or the deffdread detachment for orks
pulsar cairn
That guard regiment called chemdogs or whatever the heck
runic swallow
Savlar Chem Dogs!
pulsar cairn
yes!
ebon forge
Vulkan
Thank you for coming to my ted talk
jaunty dawn
something of a departure but I could kinda see the vibe
pastel rampart
Twitter
pastel rampart
unreal cosmos
Can't not picture her blonde due to name association
Keep thinking about Clementine Kesh
unreal cosmos
https://x.com/CerberusXt/status/1782749356564643979
Butch colors could be "Order of the Twilight Shroud" or something
uneven ember
Okay, we doing this?
S Tier: Vulcan, Sanguinius, Horus
A Tier: Corax, Maguns, Ferrus, Lion, Khan
B Tier: BobbyG, Fulgrim, Lorgar, Russ
C Tier: Dorn, Alpharius
D Tier: Mortation, Peturabo
F Tier: Konrad, Angron
bright dove
Does this take into account which Primarchs know what sex is?
proud wing
aren't Vulcan, Sanguinius, Khan, and Guilleman the only ones that have any form of conscience or empathy
bright dove
Nope. Mortarion
uneven ember
Does this take into account which Primarchs know what sex is?
I've given some consideration to this in my rankings.
but they're (mostly) smart boys they could figure it out
pulsar cairn
Sparring partner from kendo just walked at me like "nah man, warhammer is woke now"
And im like .w.
Omg
Why is everyone so mad at this situarion
unreal cosmos
loool
tired cairn
Does this take into account which Primarchs know what sex is?
Perfectly possible to be ace and a good boyfriend
floral herald
Okay, we doing this?
S Tier: Vulcan, Sanguinius, Horus
A Tier: Corax, Maguns, F...
I mostly agree but I’m not sure about the lion in A
tired cairn
Okay, we doing this?
S Tier: Vulcan, Sanguinius, Horus
A Tier: Corax, Maguns, F...
How much of this is grading on a curve?
bright dove
Perfectly possible to be ace and a good boyfriend
I am aware, being ace
tired cairn
also Robute is the only one with any experience here right?
floral herald
Why is everyone so mad at this situarion
This but woker
pulsar cairn
Speaking of custodes
Sisters of silence take in blanks, do they hand you over to the inquisition if ur not a gal? cause...that would suck
proud wing
i assumed they worked with the inquisition for recruits though
pulsar cairn
Answer the question Cyan the despoiler
uneven ember
I mostly agree but I’m not sure about the lion in A
I figure he's got almost as much of the smart, driven, and dedicated whole package but with just enough brooding distance to be interesting. I feel like he's up there.
proud wing
telling the inquisition "hey, could you let us know when you find a blank?" would be a lot easier than hiring millions of people to spread through the galaxy looking for blanks
floral herald
I figure he's got almost as much of the smart, driven, and dedicated whole packa...
I think M42 Lion would be A or S but M33 or whatever was a real asshole
uneven ember
Fair enough.
pulsar cairn
Okay, we doing this?
S Tier: Vulcan, Sanguinius, Horus
A Tier: Corax, Maguns, F...
I would put Bobby G higher he feels like a dork but in a good way
floral herald
I think he’s well placed - his near biological inability to pay attention to one person or thing at a time would I think lead to a lot of aggravating situations
pulsar cairn
Still, if ur not a fit for the SoS, do they sisters simply leave you there? Do they hand you over to some other imperial branch?
floral herald
I think they just don’t recruit or do anything else with them
pulsar cairn
Right
uneven ember
I think he’s well placed - his near biological inability to pay attention to one...
My reasoning for the B rank also involves the phrase "white bread in blue armor."
pastel rampart
Okay, we doing this?
S Tier: Vulcan, Sanguinius, Horus
A Tier: Corax, Maguns, F...
Funny enough you can also use this list as a way to gauge which one's a top and which one's a bottom.
verbal ermine
pastel rampart
He's very tsundere.
raw vessel
Alpharius would just be polyamory without you realizing it.
proud wing
a relationship with alpharius is just the dumbest soap opera ever
"I've been living with you for years, but you never married me.......you married my identical twin!"
raw vessel
"Alpharius, have you been sleeping with other people?"
"Yes. So have you."
upper canopy
"Alpharius, have you been sleeping with other people?"
"Yes. So have you."
Funniest post in this thread all week
thin ibex
Slow death guard
pulsar cairn
btw
do heretics get turned into servitors as well?
If so i imagine it depends on how corrupted their body is
pulsar cairn
Is it just because the corruption makes it dangerous or is it just considered too"lenient" if ur a giga heretic?
thin ibex
The former I think but honestly it kinda depends on who's making the decision
floral herald
Just not extreme enough I think
lucid scarab
One of the coolest things in the original Inquisitor rulebook is Arcoflagellants
Basically just this concept.
Heretic turned into a mindless servitor exclusively for fighting.
Arco-flagellation is a method of penitence administered by the Adeptus Mechanicus but appointed by the Ecclesiarchy. It is used to punish any heresy not terrible enough to warrant immediate execution. The point of such extravagant punishments is to physically expunge the sin from a heretic's soul so that they may strengthen the Emperor when they die.
(From Lexicanum, but it sounds about like whats in the Inq54 rulebook
uneven ember
love those dudes.
Not quite servitors, because there's enough personaity that you generally need them calmed by reassuring hypnotic suggestion and holy igonography.
And then when shit kicks into gear you give them the "fuck 'em up" code phrase and cram them full of combat juice.
lucid scarab
Similar In execution at least
steep wasp
lofty warren
for a reddit that had banned discussions of female space marines
its taking this really well
steep wasp
its taking this *really* well
Is this ment to be positive?
lofty warren
yeah, im proud of r/grimdank for being on the right side of history
steep wasp
yeah, im proud of r/grimdank for being on the right side of history
Tbf it's not hard to not be a complete shit heal over something that makes perfect sense in lore
lofty warren
yeah but i have extremely low expectations of warhammer players
steep wasp
🤨
lofty warren
when the reaction from a certain contigent of players is that this constitutes gaslighting and abuse from GW, the meme boards not playing into that is a welcome surprise
steep wasp
Right
floral herald
hmmm
quaint compass
The two spikes on the thumb-claw says chaos/skaven to me
raw vessel
yeah, im proud of r/grimdank for being on the right side of history
I've also seen plenty of horseshoe theory takes being popular so I wouldn't give them all the credit.
solemn gull
yeah, im proud of r/grimdank for being on the right side of history
Right for the wrong reasons
still warren
That blood is looking THICC
New great sword models for old world?
ebon forge
I think that one is an older model
I am just poking fun that the blood on it felt a bit too thick, looking more like a goo rather than blood
pulsar cairn
custodes are the best humanity has to offer sort of
but they are really far form being human are they not?
like
the way they are made, the way they think all of that
it's not even your original body after u get turned into a custodes right?
astartes are pretty much the same as in...they dont feel very human...except for some chapters
tepid stratus
but they are really far form being human are they not?
That's a complicated thing to answer. They're both more and less human than astartes. They don't have the extra organs or any of that but their bodies are altered to what should be impossible extremes. Mentally they're more human without a doubt. They actually have hobbies and a sort of culture of their own when off the clock. While you can make a similar argument for astartes it almost always circles back into warfare in some way whereas custodes engage with hobbies outside of a militaristic "warrior culture" context. The emperor made them to be his companions and peers as much as if not arguably more than the need for bodyguards.
floral herald
I think they’re also further away in some respects cause they are biologically incapable of disobeying the emperor
solemn gull
it's not even your original body after u get turned into a custodes right?
Custodes are created from scratch basically each time. Compared to the space marine process of shoving a bunch of organs into a preteen they are more hand crafted.
Also they write books and probably play tennis
floral herald
There are some legit space marine hobbies though like the blood angels art stuff
south axle
Salamander smithies
solemn gull
Oh yeah there are marines that do stuff besides kill 24/7 but that is whats left of their humanity peaking through
tepid stratus
Unfortunately space Marines with hobbies that fall outside of a "warrior culture" umbrella are the minority
pastel rampart
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/qbki4u/do_astartes_have_hobbies/ Seems like it's a little more widespread than thought
soft willow
IIRC Fists do scrimshaw.
Like most of the fluffed out chapters have a weird shared hobby.
tired cairn
Is the chapter hobby part of the indoctrination process? Do people wash out if they don't like the hobby enough?
tired cairn
I think they’re also further away in some respects cause they are biologically i...
Does that apply to his surrogates? Or is it a non-issue in the 41st millennium?
floral herald
It’s just the big fella
Mostly a non issue these days
Does prevent like possession or bodyjacking though
cinder wraith
space wolves drink alot
floral herald
Well, in the context of like someone doing that to get into the palace and the emperor
cinder wraith
id call their hobby alcoholism
soft willow
That and coming up with new wolf names for things.
solemn gull
And hunting
floral herald
id call their hobby alcoholism
Tbf when you have a space liver finding ways to trick it into letting you get drunk is a hobby
tepid stratus
I think they’re also further away in some respects cause they are biologically i...
Been a while since I've read Valdor, but it is fascinating how aware he is of this and is only bothered by how much it doesn't bother him
south axle
Why does it say 2021?
Answer: that specific battleplan is from 2021
The Generals Handbook for '24-'25 is using battleplans from '16-'23 but updated for the new rule set
jaunty dawn
ye!
the new ghb is coming with cards etc for all the battleplans and tactics
notably not grand strategies
(and the first one will be part of the launch box like in leviathan)
past sphinx
They took away the fleeing the battlefield mechanic in the edition they revive the skaven
goofy move
storm schooner
i assume skaven clanrats will just take more moral damage
most units in the game arent cowardly and are highly unlikely to run away, so as a mechanic is essentially only effects Coward units like skaven
jaunty dawn
I mean
skaven already have a rule for heroes just fuckin leavin combat
instead of fighting
they can retreat in the combat phase
which is also like a lot more interesting than "if you kill half a pack of clan rats the other half run away unless you kill them just a little each round"
lofty warren
I dont like how health is replacing wounds. I know it has absolutely no meaningful distinction but wargames is when its wounds
Thats the DONE THING
sweet solar
whaaaat thats so annoying. my tiny things!
more impactful to the experience than female custodes by far tbh, and its not even that impactful lmao
final tide
https://x.com/nightmare_works/status/1783196026679275678?s=46
thought about sanginius flow
sweet solar
thats so fucking good
imagining the "im spartacus" bit but its a unit of black company standing up and each saying "IM HIM"
upper canopy
https://x.com/nightmare_works/status/1783196026679275678?s=46
thought about sang...
Tor in the finale
final tide
correct
upper canopy
ARMOR FROM BALENCIAGA. SWORD IS GUCCI. MY FUCKING PSYCHOSIS IS HOMEGROWN. THIS SHIT AIN'T NOTHING TO ME MAN
Balled so hard I got Hive Fleet Leviathan as my opps. Swung my biomass around and had 'em choke on it. That shit ain't nothing to me man.
Ka'bhanda wanted to front. Hit him with a Huricanna so hard that Khorne contracted mesothelioma.
spice flicker
lofty warren
Im shocked a lot of this was not already legends
jaunty dawn
fw stuff usually isn't
if it's in production
unless except when it isn't cause of some vague notion about competing with horus heresy
thin ibex
is fw stuff made to order rather than stocked?
jaunty dawn
no it's stocked
thin ibex
sad to see mega/meka dredds go
but also ive never bought fw as im a hobby baby
i wouldve bought tau stuff but ive always had the vague feeling as a hobby baby that fw stuff is simultaneously more advanced and also not like... nebulously "legit"
pastel rampart
The problem with FW resin is that it's dogshit.
spice flicker
I know a lot of people were apparently saddened to see grot tanks go
floral herald
I sure am
spice flicker
I wonder could you do a 1k or 2k list centered around grot tanks and other grot vehicles?
floral herald
Love those funny guys wish they were more accessible
pastel rampart
Orks are one of the most accessible armies if you don't care about buying actual factual GW/FW models.
Converting old toys into propah orky stuff is a time-honored tradition dating back to ye olde deoderant gravtank.
https://spikeybits.com/white-dwarf/the-first-40k-tank-was-a-gi-joe-toy/ Wait sorry it goes back further, I just remembered.
desert jay
looks like basically all the fw ork stuff is going out of production :(
Except Gargantuan Squiggoth, the one resin thing I can find absent from this list
thin ibex
completely seperate note, i wish there were more electrical cult models in the mechanicus
i kinda vibe with the electrical priesthood
give us a tesla tank or something
or a big chain lightning robot
something
also an electric priest character would be cool, though pretty specific i guess
solemn gull
https://spikeybits.com/white-dwarf/the-first-40k-tank-was-a-gi-joe-toy/ Wait sor...
I wish GW did this today
ebon forge
Remember the first Deff Dread?
pastel rampart
Technically still a legal model!
pastel rampart
I wish GW did this today
They'd get sued to shit for doing that now, probably.
ebon forge
Technically still a legal model!
HAH
uneven ember
They'd get sued to shit for doing that now, probably.
Honestly between the two I feel like GW would be the saltier one
That is, maybe they'd sue, but also I feel like even Hasbro would think that the key clause of "buy GI Joe toys to play with in our army men game" is "buy GI Joe toys"
pine matrix
https://x.com/nightmare_works/status/1783196026679275678?s=46
thought about sang...
I'm smoking zaza in the drop pod, opps thought I was a fucking virus bomb
I snatched Angron's wig so fucking hard, he left the physical plane!
I've flipped bricks in places that make the Vengeful Spirit look like a ball pit
solemn gull
I wonder if they will make a bloodbowl novel
runic swallow
I swear they have
solemn gull
The life and legacy of a halfling bloodbowl player would be hilarious
runic swallow
The halflings are the joke absolutely terrible team, yeah?
brittle salmon
dont boltars kill a normal person if they try t o fire it ?
The recoil of an Astartes bolter will probably break your arm and/or shoulder, depending on your bracing, but it won't kill you
plucky token
it looks more like a bolt pistol. but yeah, firing an astartes-sized bolt weapon will probably break an arm
solemn gull
I heard it can break your spine
floral herald
Firing one in a braced prone position ought to be relatively safe
thin ibex
And then you get Sergeant Harker, one arming a militarum heavy bolter, which is at least comparable to an Astartes bolter.
pastel rampart
Yes but he's Catachan, that's practically cheating.
thin ibex
Every day they prove that pumping iron gets you pretty close to a space marines physique
floral herald
Harker is just constructed uniquely
thin ibex
Sergeant "Built Different" Harker
sweet solar
it would he a fun bit for him to turn out to he a minustorum psiop
conoletly cybernetic rework under his meat
there as a positive wcample
add a "one soldier army" character you can tailor build as an example of the perfect member of your force
one arming heavy weapons thanks to cybernetics, increadibly "lucky" thanks to an implantes deflector field, super strong in combat with emplanted muscles, build your own harker
very antithical to modern gw design of course
but i like it
uneven ember
Space Marines falling through the stairs.
Trying to fight through a buillding where the stairwell isn't rated for a giant wearing a tank. Steps just give way & the Space Marine's bottom half just dangling and kicking at nothing.
zinc field
The deliberately designed anti-space marine-city
every floor is designed to collapse and send a 500 pound chungus in power armor on an unplanned trip to the basement
every hallway is just barely wide and tall enough for a normal-sized person
All the security systems are fingerprint based, so you have to stop, take off your power fist, unlock the door, go through, then put it back on
thin ibex
guys do i ditch my coop merc in rogue trader or do i ditch the unsanctioned psyker to make room for the navigator
floral herald
Space Marines falling *through* the stairs.
Trying to fight through a buillding ...
There’s a book where this happens
thin ibex
good ol "power armor does nothing to make you less objectively heavy"
floral herald
uneven ember
beautiful
uneven ember
a winch and harnass
floral herald
What do you think an “armory extraction team” is :p
lofty warren
Should be standard issue
If i was a chapter master all marines would have this
Anyways i wonder if chaos marines can make themselves weigh less using chaos fuckery
floral herald
Also some important context is that these guys are all new mint Deathwing terminators and they are all carefully avoiding saying that their brother has "fallen" into a basement
thin ibex
some probably can tbh
i mean i imagine even today, a lot of imperial tech is faultier than the tabletop reflects
lofty warren
Also some important context is that these guys are all new mint Deathwing termin...
Lmao DA have issues
thin ibex
like i still imagine most marine teleporters still risk instagibbing their teleportees
unless they're custodes or grey knights
then they get the good teleporters
floral herald
Teleport assaults are reasonably safe for Terminators aiui
uneven ember
Also some important context is that these guys are all new mint Deathwing termin...
pfffft
lofty warren
I feel like the risk has to be really low to justify risking marines
thin ibex
or no
captain lysanders captain at the time
died to a rock
and lysander took his hammer?
lofty warren
Marines are expensive, as is terminator armor
uneven ember
Teleport assaults are reasonably safe for Terminators aiui
Sure, now they are.
Coddle kids today. Time was you had to roll a scatter die and hope you didn't teleport your most expensive squad into a wall.
thin ibex
see the issue with that feeling is the flawed thinking that space marines and the imperium do effective jobs at risk management
the thing is teleport assaults arent a daily occurence
lofty warren
Marines have to be slightly better at it if they are codex
lofty warren
1000 guys is not a lot
If ur like, black templars
Sure hell yeah fuck it
Throw em in
floral herald
captain lysander died to a teleport assault
That was enemy action not an equipment failure but yeah
floral herald
IIRC they're just very rare
Or maybe the pickup is unfeasible?
I forget but they do get troops on board ships without void shields pretty well
thin ibex
"Terminator Teleportation technology can be dangerous and unreliable, such as there being a risk of a user being fused into the structure of their intended location."
i think in general, teleportariums are just not super commonly used, especially for non-critical or important assaults
lofty warren
Terminator shokk attack gun
lofty warren
i think in general, teleportariums are just not super commonly used, especially ...
Teleportarium boarding actions baby
Just throw men at the problem
thin ibex
and reserve the teleporter for big dick, high octane assaults
lofty warren
You got spare
floral herald
AIUI with a teleport homer there's very little risk
Teleporters do have the significant advantage that no one can shoot you on the way in
lofty warren
Ork tellyportas are def way less good
floral herald
Ironically they're actually pretty much the best
zinc field
There’s also a teleporting titan legion iirc
lofty warren
Ironically they're actually pretty much the best
Only orkimedes
floral herald
They're not reliable but they're extremely potent tech
lofty warren
Orkimedes is a fucking genius
floral herald
Yeah Orkimedes is the one behind the interstellar range ones right?
thin ibex
iirc the only factions with truly reliable and safe teleporters in the imperium are the custodes and the grey knights
lofty warren
Yeah Orkimedes is the one behind the interstellar range ones right?
Yeah, part of ghazkulls waaagh
thin ibex
the grey knights are specifically called out as having especially safe and reliable teleporters
floral herald
But even the Shokk Attack Gun greatly exceeds the capabilities of imperial teleporters
thin ibex
and apparently the custodes use daot teleporters that are objectively the best, because of course theyre hte custodes
zinc field
Ironically they're actually pretty much the best
Only hits its target 1 in 3 times though…
floral herald
It's a quasi-handheld unit which can safely teleport unshielded small fragile creatures
lofty warren
It's a quasi-handheld unit which can safely teleport unshielded small fragile cr...
can.
floral herald
Now its used to teleport them as bullets as a larf but the technology is there
uneven ember
So you can do a teleport attack if your ship is within 15cm and doesn't have active void shields.
Everyone but Space Marines needs to have more current Hull Points than the target.
lofty warren
Snotlings typically go insane best case
That might just be because its snotlings
Tho
uneven ember
(I think trying to do a teleport attack on Eldar ships with active holofields gives them the 2+ save. Whoops you accidentally teleported your boarding party into empty space. Maybe you can pick them up later.)
lofty warren
You can send orks through em, iirc, because one of the ork characters sent a mek through his own shokk attack gun because he used the wrong snotlings
floral herald
*can*.
But I'z not interested in revolutionizing travel, I'z gonna tele-kill these zoggin' fools
thin ibex
when i played a snakebitez crusade my narrative was a beastboss waging a waaaagh and having made a deal with a big mek from another kultur to build him warp tunnels that let him bring squig herds across planets terrestrially
i had no idea if it was feasible, but it was good fun
lofty warren
When you think about it tellyportin is basically the opposite of going fast
And thus kinda un orky
uneven ember
I feel like no one has a fun time with teleportation.
Which, least we forget, means you just get to go through the warp personally but it's not for long so it's probably fine.
thin ibex
effectively giant angry teleporter holes that let him bring himself and all the squigs through in a massive stampede to bring Da Old Ways
floral herald
That's zoggin stupid if you move from A to B in no time at all that's speed ya git
lofty warren
Youze gotta feel speed
uneven ember
Warp Spiders have some sort of "okay they're gone" failure state, right?
thin ibex
of course, the big mek was also trying to usurp the beast boss, so kept throwin him into big battles and hoping to beat em on the return
but thanks to teh cool ork crusade rules
my beast boss kept krumpin em
and also winning the battles
floral herald
Warp Spiders have some sort of "okay they're gone" failure state, right?
yes but only in "sorry master but I must go all out just this once" mode
uneven ember
cool cool
(Also if you take Terminator Boarding Parties Space Marines can make a second teleport attack in the same turm.)
rocky shale
yes but only in "sorry master but I must go all out just this once" mode
except in-game which happens 1 in 6 times lol
floral herald
Isn't it just when they use the overdrive option?
thin ibex
You know, I feel like assault marines dueling with other flying units in warhammer is an under explored or evoked topic
Assault squad fighting gargoyles and a tyranid prime in some sort of bizarre dogfight sounds kinda sick
Jump Pack assault squads*
I guess inceptors can be in that image too
south axle
Isn't it just when they use the overdrive option?
Not in 10th sadly, whenever they flickerjump they have a 1 in 6 to take a mortal wound
solemn gull
Assault squad fighting gargoyles and a tyranid prime in some sort of bizarre dog...
I mean they would just jump past each other so your best bet would be a joust
jaunty dawn
gargoyles and most tyranid flyers are adapted for inderdiction
even against like
much faster supersonic jets n shit
basically what I'm saying is assault marines aren't really trained for aerial assault against anything they can't like, land on
whereas tyranids will just fly into a jet turbine if needed
back when flyers became mainline 40k and tyranids basically had no answers to them
cause the universal option that was added was flakk missiles in missile launchers
shrikes seemed like a pretty good option
just by putting a bunch of attacks into a flyer's rear armour
course then eventually the flyers came out and also winged tyrants became flying monsterous creatures instead of jump monsterous creatures and the balance tipped very much away from flyers being a problem
jaunty dawn
Points!
chosen vs legionaries is now a 50pt swing haha
still not tau release though
still warren
Glad to see that's universal across 40k and aos
ebon forge
jesus christ
Use it wisely
pine matrix
No changes to Dark Eldar!
tired cairn
GW continuing to twist the knife into artillery repeatedly
Unfortunately, the artillery rules made them uninteresting and a bit hard to balance
brittle salmon
Then change the indirect rules! Argh
upper bluff
"Points costs across the Adeptus Mechanicus have dropped – but the Warhammer Studio are also testing a selection of rules changes to launch with the next Balance Dataslate that should tune up the Machine Cult’s legions and give them a shot in the cybernetic arm." WE ARE SO BACK (in three months)
upper bluff
Then change the indirect rules! Argh
Maybe in the balance slate?
upper bluff
Which is disappointing but they acknowledged that my faction is shooting nerf guns
south axle
The instant points buff on CUstodes is fun
upper bluff
Yeah I kinda chuckled when I saw that
south axle
It's almost at the point where they should just stop printing points values in books
jaunty dawn
they basically have since the points in book basically have no relation to the rules the book has
south axle
So wasting ink then
jaunty dawn
like now where custodes were specifically made to be less powerful individually and cost less as a result, but that is not reflected in the codex points which aiui are just a copy/paste of the first mfm
mhm
spice flicker
Medusa artillery vs earthshaker artillery vs heavy weapon squads mortars for guard?
thin ibex
Depends on the army comp, but the basilisk is a safe choice in that it has some control on the enemy army
Mortars hide easier and are cheaper
But are much more fragile
ebon forge
When people say they play Knights , is like , an Knight only game, or "I invested so much in this that it became the focus of my army"?
bright dove
Bigger Knights are expensive
ebon forge
That they are
mental birch
Knight only
ebon forge
I should bite the bullet and ||print|| get one for myself
mental birch
Knight only exists
ebon forge
Knight only
Oh cool! How does it work? Is like 10th but the army is only knights or is a different set of rules like Kill Team?
south axle
Imperial/Chaos Knights are two armies that exist
tired cairn
The army is made to take only knights
Taking knights in a differenet army is supported but I don't think used that often?
south axle
I played Imp. Knights in 9th cuz I like how the Armigers look
ebon forge
Imperial/Chaos Knights are two armies that exist
That's kinda sad
Would be cool to have massive Ork engines and T'au mechs too
south axle
I feel that there is a disconnect in this discussion?
tired cairn
There is an ork knight equivalent
T'au have big mechs, but idk if they are in the same class as a knight
south axle
Riptide is kinda Knight sized, is it not?
tired cairn
Maybe. I couldn't remember lol
pastel rampart
Riptide is closer to the dreadknight in size.
south axle
It's base is between Armiger and big bois
ebon forge
Don't the ork have big stompas that goes side by side with Knights?
floral herald
Not in 10th sadly, whenever they flickerjump they have a 1 in 6 to take a mortal...
They are also jump troops
pastel rampart
ebon forge
they weird
Same
Fav faction by a mile
ebon forge
Yeah, they can go toe-to-toe right?
I am unsure if stat wise it would be fair
spice flicker
Funny enough knights are like the easiest army to collect in regards to price and a somewhat decent way to learn the game's core mechanics (imo) due to the reduced number of sheets you have to juggle and memorize.
They might not seem it but I recommend them as a starter or alternate army.
south axle
Mid size knight are 10-12 12 22, and small are 12 10 12
spice flicker
The fact you can use the same models as both loyalist and Chaos for thr most part (with the help of magnets and neutral paint scheme) means you can have 2 armies for the price of one.
ebon forge
10" 9T 14W on Riptide vs 8" 13T 24W
Yeah the riptide has 10W disadvantage on the get go
dunno about their weapons but yeah.
upper bluff
Aren't riptides like 230 points?
spice flicker
165
upper bluff
Pretty much every knight is pushing 500
spice flicker
Most knights range from 400-480
upper bluff
Most knights range from 400-480
Oh I have a valiant so that's my reference lol
spice flicker
Knight dominus (castellan, tyrant, and valiant) are 500+
south axle
The first knight statline I posted are 525, mid-size are 400-480, small are 150ish
ebon forge
So in a knight only fight, 2 riptides for 1 knight?
upper bluff
Just about I guess
spice flicker
Really you'll want the long range shooting of the heavy rail rifles carried by broadsides to take down knights
upper bluff
Knights are a weird army to play though since if your opponent doesn't have any good antitank they're basically forced to win through points
Which can be kinda lame
spice flicker
The tau knight equivalent is really the stormsurge
upper bluff
Yeah storm surge is awesome
spice flicker
Wish it had arms
pulsar cairn
btw 
do knight houses happen to occasionally own a titan?
spice flicker
No
pulsar cairn
cause there's that one titan who looks a lot like a knight
ebon forge
The tau knight equivalent is really the stormsurge
how many points is the stormsurge?
spice flicker
Titan legions are a separate thing but some knight houses are sworn to serve some titan legions
south axle
Stormsurge are 400
soft willow
Titan Legios occasionally have a Knight House serve them yeah.
pulsar cairn
right 
soft willow
So they get to run around with their bigger cooler cousins sometimes.
ebon forge
So it's a piramid, legios are on top of the Knight house
spice flicker
Warlord titan
south axle
CHeapest titan is 1100pts
spice flicker
Knight warden
Warhound
Is the 1100 titan while reaver is 2200 and warlord is like 3300 I think.
ebon forge
Who need ARMS when you can have missiles
south axle
Warlord is 3500
pulsar cairn
i like warlord it looks kewl
ebon forge
Is the 1100 titan while reaver is 2200 and warlord is like 3300 I think.
Does the other factions have an equivalent for the warlord?
south axle
Warhound -> Reaver -> Warbringer -> Warlord
mental birch
Riptides now no longer brawl
soft willow
Knight and Titan time:
south axle
Does the other factions have an equivalent for the warlord?
Not for warlord i think
spice flicker
Does the other factions have an equivalent for the warlord?
Chaos of course have chaos titans and eldar have a counterpart but the name eludes me.
ebon forge
Huh, seems like GW don't want to invest in huge models them,
Which, in all honestly, makes sense
south axle
Revenant and Phantom Titan
spice flicker
They don't tend to sell well when just the warhound is about $700
ebon forge
They don't tend to sell well when just the warhound is about $700
WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE WARHOUND IS 700 QUID
south axle
Revenant and Phantom Titan
1100 and 2100 respectively
spice flicker
Meanwhile the knight dominus model is about $185 I think.
pulsar cairn
orks have whatever the heck they come up with at the time
spice flicker
***WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE WARHOUND IS 700 QUID***
I use American dollars.
soft willow
***WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE WARHOUND IS 700 QUID***
Thats if you don't get the extras too.
A Warlord is like 2k.
ebon forge
A
spice flicker
I calculated it out once that you can get a 2000 points knight list that is good for about $700 all together before paint, magnets, and other stuff.
south axle
Tyranid's titan is only 810 points
ebon forge
orks have whatever the heck they come up with at the time
The Orks have the entire junkyard ! 😄
ebon forge
Knight and Titan time:
So, like
How much those models would cost in total?
spice flicker
The questoris model can be used for a lot of knights just by magnetize the weapons and swapping them out.
pulsar cairn
is the warhound a shorter titan? i remember it being really fast
south axle
Warhound is the small titan with an angular face
spice flicker
Armigers are the workhorses of the knights but the questoris are the bringers of firepower. The dominus are good centerpieces that are bulky with the chaos knight tyrant (only dominus they have) able to prevent deepstriking within 12".
south axle
So, like
How much those models would cost in total?
These are for the mini-miniature games
soft willow
So, like
How much those models would cost in total?
These are the Legions Imperialis/Adeptus Titanicus ones, so that's two questoris boxes, a Warmaster, a Reiver, and the core set Warhounds that now have a box.
Oh and the lancer box so probably like 350-400 all together.
spice flicker
Using the warhammer store for reference (flgs or other retailers might have these for cheaper) here are the prices for the kits individually:
Armigers (warglaives/helverin/huntsman/executioners): $90 for a pair
War dogs (karnivores/brigands/stalkers): $90 for a pair
Questoris: $170 each
Dominus: $185 each
These are in American dollars
soft willow
Knights tend to be a fairly cost effective army.
spice flicker
The most cost effective imo
soft willow
Just about.
ebon forge
Oh so the Custodes lost that throne?
spice flicker
I mean you can make a custodes army pretty cheap as well but you get more bang for your buck from knights if you ask me.
ebon forge
I might see more into that.
So the rules is basically, 10th as normal, but knights only for a 'knight match'?
spice flicker
Also knights are in a much better position right now after that custodes codex.
south axle
I might see more into that.
So the rules is basically, 10th as normal, but knigh...
For what?
spice flicker
Nope knights use the same rules as all the other factions. They don't have their own special game since they are part of the regular 40k tabletop.
soft willow
I'll take a comparison picture with some regular knights too.
spice flicker
You can do a regular tyranid army or guard army against knights or even space Marines vs knights no problem.
ebon forge
Oh cool
but I guess if they go heavy on the anti-tank you are screwed
south axle
Kinda
spice flicker
Unless you focus fire them down first
soft willow
south axle
Maybe I should buy some LegioImp Reavers as Armiger proxies
ebon forge
Love the red
soft willow
They'd be a bit short but with some clever adjustments could be cool.
south axle
Tactical rocks!
last moss
it begins.. test printed a commander and some oversized exhausts for a grot tank proxy before i make a full unit. might model some headlights before I send it these off to be resin printed too
soft willow
Slightly annoyed that if I paint the heresy stuff correctly I'd have to swap the red for blue if I stick with House Taranis.
spice flicker
You can paint knights however you like
I prefer a neutral paint pattern that way I can use the same knight in both chaos knights or loyalist knigjts
soft willow
True, but then they won't be "Historically Accurate" for the heresy era and it will bother me.
There's also no reason for me to care, but hey I do.
spice flicker
They still can be, it could be your knight house predates the heresy?
They're you're knights ultimately it's all up to you
soft willow
Not if I want them to be House Taranis like my big knights.
ebon forge
Use the lancer customization table on your knight
south axle
Just say they are from the DOrnian heresy instead
But ye, factions changing colours through the ages kinda sucks
pulsar cairn
did somebody say dorn?
last moss
Also worth mentioning that the Dread Mob detachment rules feel as if they were made for punching a dice popper dressed up as a big red button with hazard stripes and a hinged acrylic cover
soft willow
But ye, factions changing colours through the ages kinda sucks
I mean it's a cool thing and a bit of lore that I like about the faction, but it also means I can't have big and tiny versions of the same knight.
spice flicker
Also worth mentioning that the Dread Mob detachment rules feel as if they were m...
Shame they got rid of the grot tanks just as this was released.
soft willow
Can't do all dorns, but can do all LRBTs
spice flicker
how many points is a rogal dorn worth?
260 and you can only bring up to 3 in an army
last moss
wait, they removed grot tanks? I thought those were just in Imperial Armour
wtf
spice flicker
wait, they removed grot tanks? I thought those were just in Imperial Armour
Got legend'd
soft willow
As of like today even.
spice flicker
Yeah
last moss
I see. good thing I don't care to ever set foot in a Games Workshop (ahem, sorry, Warhammer Branch) again then
spice flicker
I think it was all ork forgeworld units that got legend'd
I just hope knights don't lose the cerastus pattern come time for codex.
last moss
eventual plan with this army was to get silly with it in the lgs anyway!
I'm guessing that means the mega tank is in Legends now too then
spice flicker
Yep
last moss
further proof GW hates fun
spice flicker
Along with the meka/mega dreads I think
last moss
i pretend not to see it
spice flicker
Only ork forgeworld model in the updated points dataslate was the gargantuan squiggoth
Deff dreads only dreads
last moss
do deff dread klawz still have the potential for a ridiculous number of melee attacks via Dead Choppy, at least?
spice flicker
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ebon forge
dang
spice flicker
I'm just glad that drukhari were not really hit with the new points
I think that's the faction I'll get into next
Yesh
Thr boats are kabal units are pretty cool
And the speed and lethality (mostly against infantry) is very nice.
south axle
Tantalus is such a gorgeous kit
spice flicker
The fact that the dark eldar lucked out with arguably the best combat patrol box as well (a pair have pretty much all you need for a 1k list game) and yeah I'm happy for 10th DE so far.
Working on putting together a warhammer crusade campaign with friends and idk if I want to go troop heavy Mechanized guard, tau, or the drukhari with a tantalus (maybe another at 2k).
rocky shale
Gotta grab the combat patrol before they release a new, worse one
No way we're getting two boats in the new one
spice flicker
Yeah
rocky shale
I'm mostly a craftworlds player and I'm tempted to grab one just to have it for ynnari stuff
spice flicker
Who knows how much ebay might start charging if the box disappears.
ebon forge
Also, best Knight focused novel is Freeblade as a start, right?
sweet solar
and assasinorum kingmaker
which is very knights focused. i havent read freeblade but i loved kingmaker
spice flicker
Mechanicum is good in horus heresy era as well as titandeath and mortis if you want titans while in modern 40k kingmaker is a good knight focused book as well.
past sphinx
I know a lot of people were apparently saddened to see grot tanks go
WHAT
MY BOY, MY BABY BOYS
spice flicker
WHAT
Yep reduced to the naught but dust (reduced to legend status along with all forgeworld ork units except gargantuan squiggoths.)
spice flicker
Nope
it too was reduced to legend along with the mega/meka dreads
A lot of units that would have been good with the new grot mechanical Detachment were legend'd.
spice flicker
Drukhari, tau, and knights not being hit with nerfs does mean good eating for me though.
floral herald
Oh did the next balance slate come out?
floral herald
Helll yeah the boys in black recovering well from the horrible drubbing they got in Q1
spice flicker
Also while it's painful to see the orks lose forgeworld, at least they got good rules and point drops for the most part compared to custodes
floral herald
It’s nice for a lot of good but a little overcosted units to get cheaper
Since there’s a lot of really intense points efficiency competition within the CSM list
spice flicker
Havocs going down caught my eye and is nice. Also Cypher is cheaper than the generic lord now
tired cairn
No points for the new tau units that I noticed thouhh
Tau codex points are coming out soon
They manage to release a codex around a balance slate timing but not have the points for it yet lol
spice flicker
It is a little funny.
Why did the storm raven get nerfed? I never heard of anyone taking that.
floral herald
Havocs going down caught my eye and is nice. Also Cypher is cheaper than the gen...
Cheaper raptors and helbrutes is also nice
rocky shale
Aledari changes are a good attempt at internal balance but banshees and shining spears need way more than point drops to actually be worth bringing
Arguably we didn't really need the shadow specter/fuegan point hit given a fairly average WR
spice flicker
Cheaper raptors and helbrutes is also nice
My theoretical 1k csm list just got quite a bit cheaper since I think over half the units got a points drop
rocky shale
65pt scorpions is cool though
floral herald
Yeah and they needed it imo
Not a bad unit just not very compelling at their price point
rocky shale
Banshees got cheaper too but they just have the most baffling weapon profile
floral herald
I don’t think banshees have had a proper niche since like 5e where they were basically the best MEQ/TEQ killers on the charge
rocky shale
3a 3+ s4 ap-3 d1 excuse me
Aside from dying to overwatch they just don't really kill anything
floral herald
Make them D2 and people will notice them again
rocky shale
The AP would make them good into MEQ if thier damage wasn't nonexistent
floral herald
Fuck it D3 terminators have no rights
rocky shale
Fuck it D3 terminators have no rights
They increased shadow specter costs so terminators got rights back
floral herald
Overwatch immunity would be a good banshee mask effect
rocky shale
S9 flat 3 damage my beloved...
rocky shale
Overwatch immunity would be a good banshee mask effect
I think that's what it was in 9th, now it's fights first and advance + charge
pine matrix
The fact that the dark eldar lucked out with arguably the best combat patrol box...
It's a pretty great box, Kabalites for shootin', Incubi for fightin' and some boats for big guns
I wish we'd get a new Archon model though, I really don't much care for the current one
spice flicker
Agreed