Warhammer and Such

[soft willow]

Yup, you could even bring other Imperial allies in or play some games as a different faction if you had enough room in your OOB.

[thin ibex]

only uncertain if id want a gun knight as a counterbalance to the wolf ferocity, or a paladin because i love paladins and also it can jump in on melee

[spice flicker]

I think I'm starting to warm to the idea around Black Templar Mechanized Infantry. Land raiders filled with melee primaris crusaders fighting alongside black Templar gladiator reapers to serve as a big two prong assault. Invest in some assault intercessors with jetpacks and Terminators to precision strikes, flanking, or just rapid movement (former only) and I'm kinda liking this.

Armored Black Templars
Ironstorm spearhead
1995/2000 points

Marshal, plasma pistol, warlord
Techmarine, adept of the omnissiah
Techmarine, the flesh is weak

2x10 primaris crusaders with chainswords and two power fists
1x5 heavy intercessors with one heavy bolter (home objective campers)

2x10 assault intercessors with jet packs and a trio of plasma pistols
1x3 eliminators
1x5 Terminators with power fists and a cyclone missile launcher

2x black Templar gladiator reapers with printle multi-melta
2x Land raiders (crusader taxis)

[dense sedge]

That looks necromunda

[jaunty dawn]

it's a servo skull of some kind

[spice flicker]

More weaponized servoskulls?

[thin ibex]

I'm quite liking the vibe, very aggressive, 2 hard to kill armor targets, some backline droppers. Almost dunno if im vibing with 10 man assault jump packers. but they're a healthy objective threat at that size for sure

if you dropped them both 2 five man's, would that buy you a whirlwind?

one thing id be a bit concerned with is monsters and melee vehicles being a roablock, but if your LR can blast em and you use the grenade strat, it should be fine

[spice flicker]

I'm thinking for the assault jumpers of using them for challenging up the side of the map and maybe quickly getting closer to a corner if a secondary needs it. The templars like melee and I felt they kinda fit thematically and can quickly help put more bodies/OC on an objective if needed.

[thin ibex]

and crusaders and assault intercessors tend to be able to bully lighter enemy chaff

yeah makes sense for sure

[spice flicker]

The reapers are to help "soften/clear" targets for the LR to get closer and drop their cargo off with maybe a little less roadblocks in the way. The two techmarines would be used to pair up with each LR+reaper combo. I did consider swapping some things around and maybe putting a pair of predator annihilators in as well. Two prong assault of LR+Reaper+Las Pred alongside a techmarine and crusader squad each. Remaining units support in different ways.

Would require sacrificing some of the melee potential and bodies/OC to make the two prong assault better against armor/high Toughness though.

[thin ibex]

i think the reapers are fine as is personally, they can still ping wounds into bigger stuff semi reliably

and definitely clear light chaff

the LR can shoot monsters even when they'e in melee with your guys, which is nice

[spice flicker]

If I swapped the terminators+eliminators I could afford the 2 additional predators...

[thin ibex]

mmm, i like the elims personally, some match ups really benefit from precision, otehrs not at all

[spice flicker]

True

[thin ibex]

and the temies are nice back objective or mid objective combo threats imo

[spice flicker]

I was just running math and found that 75+185=260 which was what was needed for the las predator pair.

But yeah this is warming on me a little more.

[thin ibex]

i almost wonder if 2 las preds and 2 lr might be lascannon overkill

which isn't terrible

but you could do with some anti elite firepower

[spice flicker]

Maybe predator destructor instead?

Idk

[thin ibex]

well the reapers are decent due to volume fire

the predator destructor isnt bad either

hellblasters or something that shoots in that str7-8-str 9 range with a bit more volume than a lascannon perse

a dread with plasma might be good

but redemptors are expensive

[spice flicker]

Hmm....

Storm speeders?

[thin ibex]

i do like the storm speeders aesthetically

[spice flicker]

I know for elite infantry my initial idea was the reapers output as well as just how many hits the crusaders get in melee.

[thin ibex]

the hailstrike is an infantry killer but combos with anything real well, teh thundertrike makes anything hit harder

i think the reapers would be better than pred annhilators personally

[spice flicker]

The primaris crusaders are cheaper than assault jumpers so maybe I could swap something there but only a 30 point difference between the 10 man squads.

[pine matrix]

I love the feeling of looking at a model after a few days and being filled with pride

Like, yeah!!! I made that!!!

And it's beautiful!!!

[tired cairn]

Belated, but that ad mech seems really weird. Like, mostly skitarii spam. But a squad of electropriests? And two inquisitors? Why

[thin ibex]

i think kyria draxis for cp gen or something

no idea on the other

dont remember the video but he prolly covers the priests

[tired cairn]

Draxis for limiting targeting range, Rando Inquisitor for CP regen and the priests for annoying movement debuff

Though I would think the priests would just die, but I guess you keep them hidden until needed

[thin ibex]

Also if they do just die, that's a unit not shot at elsewhere, maybe a bit of a lose lose for the opponent

[floral herald]

https://x.com/senn_spud/status/1772710310169718789?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Will Sennett (@Senn_Spud) on X

Recently rewatched Mad men and this time around it struck me that Don is not the hero (girlfriend leaves room) if Don Draper was a fire truck he would be the biggest one in the world

Twitter · Mar 26, 2024, 7:40 PM

This is what being a 40k fan is like

Except it’s like vaguely chuddy people not your girlfriend

[sweet solar]

ork painboy notices the new type of beakies
overhears discussion on radio chatter/gets info from a captured inquisitor
creates Superorks by replacing all of an orks organs with other, smaller orks

[proud wing]

I cannot for the life of me parse what this means

does his girlfriend really like Don and he's pretending he's not as bad to appease her?

[sweet solar]

"i have learned to reproduce the idea that a protagonist is not a moral authority as a defense mechanism, yet retain a childlike wonder at any protagonist regardless of obvious morality"

[sweet solar]

tyranid hiveship digests new fodder and creates a new version of the tyrant guard:
a "small" warrior completly encased in living bio-armour rendered from the origional tyrant guard, armed with a longer repeating explosive spine launcher and toothey maw blade

[sweet solar]

some chaos warbands begin to acrue traitor primaris

[sweet solar]

cawl adopts some slightly altered designs for new armoured "prime" servitors controlled by a direct motion link to the nearest magos as a form of heavy skitarii

[thin ibex]

Primanichus?

Primaristers of battle

[solemn gull]

In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, every faction has been subsumed by the primaris lieutenant.

[thin ibex]

oh so is Cypher like full chaos now?

or is he still a non chaos renegade

[tired cairn]

He has the chaos keyword >.>

[bright dove]

Cypher has the Chaos keyword in the same way Alpha Legion does

[tired cairn]

Alpha Legion should have all the keywords

[pastel rampart]

https://twitter.com/jetblackraider/status/1772716765518159879

jetblackraider 🐀 (@jetblackraider) on X

That is the sort of thing she posts on her dataslate while the other sisters are scouring the floor

Twitter · Mar 26, 2024, 8:06 PM

[jaunty dawn]

they just don't really care to give him interesting rules at the moment

[bright dove]

Has Cipher ever been mechanically interesting?

[tired cairn]

Huh, seems like he should have showed up in the DA book

He had a pretty funny redeploy ability

[jaunty dawn]

I mean in 8e he and the fallen could join chaos and imperium armies

[uneven ember]

I love Jetblack Raider

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/yangzheyy/status/1772647823000969566

[dense sedge]

Oh no

Could be worse, could be a slaanesh sister

[bright dove]

Living? Yes. Chosen by a god? Yes. Yep, that's a Living Saint!

[junior summit]

welp, they're dead

[uneven ember]

I had an antagonist in a DH game who was an Imperial priest who'd fallen to Chaos because he just wanted a god who would show him a sign.

[thin ibex]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C4vs28ntCIr/?igsh=MThhZDJtdTdjaTkzdA==

plaguenarr

WIP: Tau Commander Farsight 🌎

Here my weekly Commander Farsight SAENMM Update. Iam almost done woth the legs think there are 3-4h left until i can continue with the upper Parts of the body.

This project is a little descent into madness!But i love it! ❤️

What do you think so far(sight)? 🤣

Live painted on twitch:

Twitch.tv/plaguenarr

#painti...

Likes

277

Instagram

[uneven ember]

oh that is pretty

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/360738421897166850/1222514762223718420/z6izbm5922nb1.jpg?ex=66167e98&is=66040998&hm=07ad0c11dfc8073d10f75d9f4c67c97abe2a50815c3752cb479a354effc43aae&

https://x.com/DubhDonald/status/1772638632026792262?s=20

Lord Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz (@DubhDonald) on X

Twitter · Mar 26, 2024, 2:55 PM

[ebon forge]

Modern Angron and World Eaters lore

[spice flicker]

Well I mean Robutian Heresy spoilers but: ||during the battle of Cadia, and after Jurgen dies due to an attack from a Dark Angel chaos marine, Cain eventually falls to the blade of the ghostly and cursed Ibram Gaunt and meets with a shard of the emperor who he argues with. After seeing how much he has motivated those with him and how much they need him, the spirit of Cain accepts the offer of Living Sainthood and not only redeems/uncurses Gaunt but also unleashes the ghosts of Gaunt's Ghosts to massacre the Dark Angels who enslaved their souls for centuries. Cain also later fights and utterly curbstomps Daemon Prince Sigismund to the point he becomes a walking anathema to Khorne.|| just one reason I like the Robutian Heresy.

Also crusade question: I know it's frowned upon to take epic heroes but would it be a problem to take one in a list but another HQ is the warlord instead?

[jaunty dawn]

idk about frowned upon really

really depends on the character in question

[spice flicker]

Well I know it's kinda discouraged

[jaunty dawn]

ultimately it depends on the group you're playing crusade with and not anyone else haha

I think epic heroes are already mechanically discouraged enough that there's no need for additional stigma against them tbh

[spice flicker]

It's part of my personal challenge to create a 1000 crusade list for each faction and the first time I'm actually considering a named character is for Death Guard and the list is below:

Death guard
990/1000 points

Lord of Virulence, Warlord
Plague surgeon
Foul blightspawn
Typhus

1x10 plague Marines (2x blight launchers, 5x Heavy plague weapons (sgt got one), 2x plague spewer, 2x plague belcher, plasma gun on sgt) (plague surgeon and foul blightspawn here)
1x5 plague Marines (3x Heavy plague weapons (sgt got one), plague spewer, plague belcher, plasma gun on sgt)

1x5 Blightlord Terminators (1x flail, 2x combi-bolter, plague spewer, Reaper autocannon) (Lord of Virulence with them)
20x pox walkers (Typhus gang)

Plagueburst crawler

Not too experienced with theorycrafting with Death guard tbh.

[thin ibex]

i dont think frowned upon is hte right word

its more that epic heroes/named chars dont get any battle honors

iirc they dont get xp either

[spice flicker]

Which is why I know they're somewhat discouraged

[thin ibex]

so they're a little non interactive with the format

[jaunty dawn]

if it's right for the story there's not really any reason not to take them

like if I did a torchbearer crusade campaign I'd run cawl sometimes

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... just to play it safe maybe replace Typhus plus his poxwalkers with a 2nd plagueburst?

[thin ibex]

i think the real quesiton is which configuration do you like better

[jaunty dawn]

kinda depends how you personally view your project tbh

like what it even means to make a crusade list vs other

[thin ibex]

for me, i just like taking generics cause its more able to be "my guy" but also if i ran an aeldari list you know id be bringing an avatar of khaine

[spice flicker]

Oh?

[thin ibex]

i just think its real cool

[spice flicker]

I see

[spice flicker]

It is funny that you mention eldar because they're up next on the list for the list making challenge. (Dark eldar was already done and I'm admitted not a fan of harlequins so I'll be passing on doing them.)

[thin ibex]

i feel like a lot rides on an avatars back in a 1k game, he's VERY scary and hard to kill, but also ultimately its one model and if it drops, its a big blow to the aeldari list

[spice flicker]

Eldar are proving to be up there with thousand sons as a faction I am struggling to just settle on an idea for.

Current rough draft for 1k eldar

Autarch, warlord, howling banshee mask, glaive+reaper
Farseer
Warlock on skyrunner

2x10 guardian defenders, bright lance (farseer with one squad)
1x10 storm guardians, 2x power swords, 2x flamers (autarch here)

1x5 shadow spectres, exarch added

1x3 shroud runners
1x3 windriders, shuriken cannons, warlock attached

2x vypers with brightlance
1000/1000 points

Not entirely sold on this list at the moment.

An alternate I considered was:

Autarch, warlord, howling banshee mask, glaive+reaper
Farseer
Spiritseer
Warlock on skyrunner

2x10 guardian defenders, bright lance (farseer and autarch here)

1x5 shadow spectres, exarch added
1x5 wraithblades, axes+shields

1x3 windriders, shuriken cannons, warlock attached

Wave serpent with twin bright lance
990/1000 points

[thin ibex]

are you going for a theme or like

going for a "this represents a wide shot of hte faction

[spice flicker]

Honestly more the latter at the moment. I am doing this exercise to help practice list building and learn a bit more about the units fielded by each faction. Those I know a bit better might be more themed but those I don't know as well tend to be more generalist.

I'm also doing this because of how indecisive I am so if I ever find myself part of a 40k crusade campaign in tabletop Simulator I can just use a random wheel spin (minus factions others are using) and go with that instead of taking forever to decide on a faction

[thin ibex]

hmm, i think probably drop a guardian squad for a dire avenger squad, personally

id also consider rolling a falcon over a wave serpent if possible

and at least for me, shadow spectres are kinda non-rep for aeldari, as a forgeworld aspect shrine

[spice flicker]

I find the shadow spectres to be kinda cool looking and I like the shoot and move trick which is why I included them.

[thin ibex]

ah, totally calid

valid

[spice flicker]

In that second list the wave runner was to help taxi the wraithblades around.

At least it wasn't Caelid.

[upper canopy]

Totally Caelid

the sequel to Totally Spies

[thin ibex]

i think my main thought is repping major aspect shrines is a good way to give a look int ofaction identity

ofc at 1k you can't field em all

but i know dire avengers are the biggest one

followed by.. howling banshees?

[spice flicker]

I did also consider going a little more vehicle focused by taking two vypers and a hornet in the list all with bright lances.

[spice flicker]

How is this?

Autarch, warlord, howling banshee mask, glaive+reaper
Farseer
Warlock on skyrunner

2x10 guardian defenders, bright lance (farseer and autarch here)

1x5 shadow spectres, exarch added
1x10 dire avengers
1x5 rangers
1x5 swooping hawks (hawk talons on exarch)

2x3 windriders, shuriken cannons, warlock attached to one squad

985/1000 points

Took more aspect warriors but feel quite week against armor.

[thin ibex]

hmm yeah, also a bit lacking in survivability, but it feels a bit more on point. Does lack melee

might be going a bit heavy on characters for a 1k maybe?

[spice flicker]

I didn't realize I had an extra character I forgot to remove

Maybe striking scorpions instead of hawks?

[thin ibex]

im a scorpion fan myself yeah

im trying to think how maybe you could fit in at least one iconic vehicle

like a wraithlord or falcon

jetbikes are also iconic ofc

[spice flicker]

Think you can help whip up a decent general take all 1k list?

I did consider a wraithlord as I like the models but that 4+ on low shots felt like making me nervous

Spirtseer can help sure buy again too many characters

[thin ibex]

Hmm I'll try and drum something up

[spice flicker]

Thanks

[spice flicker]

Thoughts?

995/1000

Farseer, warlord
Warlock skyrunner

10x guardian defenders (missile launcher)
10x storm guardians (2x power sword, fusion gun)

5x dire avengers, diresword+pistol
5x fire dragons, firepike
5x shadow spectres, exarch
5x rangers

Wraithlord, glaive, double flamer and double bright lance

Falcon, shuriken cannon

[thin ibex]

i like it

[spice flicker]

Melee will be an issue for the most part but I always did prefer ranged over melee.

[thin ibex]

the main thing is to tie up the enemies melee specialists when needed

[spice flicker]

4+ to hit on everything for the wraithlord is worrisome though.

[thin ibex]

itll be fine, its a T11 walker, so its quite tough for the loss of skill

[spice flicker]

Too bad crusade doesn't really offer much support for walkers (poor knights)

[thin ibex]

hmm? cant they get battle honors too?

[floral herald]

This is really strong wow

This is a rad team

[thin ibex]

oh snap

night lords get to be cool?

[spice flicker]

A lot of the honors and traits that can benefit vehicles specifically exclude walkers.

[thin ibex]

ahh ic ic

[floral herald]

Also a LOT more for drakes

[thin ibex]

oh this is kind of a cool face off

big shadow master v shadowmaster

throw in some phobos raven guards

[floral herald]

https://tenor.com/view/byakuya-teleport-gif-14505421

[spice flicker]

Killteam?

[floral herald]

yeah next 2 teams releasing

[spice flicker]

Neat

[floral herald]

Also Mandrakes are gonna be NUTS in Into the Dark

Since basically the whole map is In Shadow

[thin ibex]

yeah

that might be a fun arena to play them in too

mandrakes v navy breachers

night lords v phobos seems fun

[floral herald]

More stuff

-Leader is called 'Night Lord Visionary' with Nostraman Chainblade(stats unknown but probably rending)

-Fearmonger(dude with hood and poison blade) can place poison tokens wich enemy operatives gain and then take some mortal wounds at the start of each turning point, can choose to shoot over the full board with his scoped pistol

-Screecher(konrad curze lookin dude) has lighting claws with relentless and 5 attacks/lethal 5 and makes weapons skill and ballistic skill of enemies within 3 inch 1 worse)

-Skinthief(you know wich on he is) has a chainglave with reap

-Ventrilokar(icon bearer with dead space marine)psychic action and force an enemy within 6 to lose an APL or make a dash in the direction you decide

-Gunner with Flamer(nothing special just a flamer, idk why they chose him...)

-also you can to a VOX SCREAM as a tacploy when they would activate one of their operatives and force them to not activate it now but activate another one first wich is cool

-Strategic ploy WE HAVE COME FOR YOU gives each enemy operative wich is charged by night lords D3 mortal wound this turning point 🙂

[thin ibex]

also pretty cool to have something beyond legionaries

for csm

even if legionaries are like par excellence

[floral herald]

I've had a soft spot for NLs for a long time (cool paint job) but these rules rule

Definitely picking them up

[thin ibex]

i like them as really truly chaos fear mongering dorks

and also really great comic book level villain material

[floral herald]

I like how some of these "boring" eldar teams without specialists are getting wild general rules to compensate

Mandrakes are much more exciting than I expected

[spice flicker]

Hey flamethrower weapons can be scary in tight quarters so gunner with flamer is respectable.

[thin ibex]

i heard aspect warriors were actually decent despite also not having wild amounts of options

[floral herald]

It's just a weird thing for a rules showcase since there's nothing different from the Legionaries flamer gunner

Aspects are neat yeah

Mix and match squad with modular "specialist abilities"

[upper canopy]

My friend Garrot loves Night Lords because they suck

in his words

In my words they're the Failgirls of the Legions

[thin ibex]

thats exactly why i like them

they're just massive dorks and losers, and its perfect

[spice flicker]

Do Archon models not have helmets?

[junior robin]

really hope they dont get the "whops all raptors/warptalons" detatchments as their themed one in the codex

[thin ibex]

i want them to have the best possible interaction with battleshock

interactions*

[spice flicker]

We both know it will be the raptor themed detachment.

[floral herald]

I think it’ll be battleshock actually

[junior robin]

sadly didnt have time to finish my -10 leadership NL army before they changed edition

[tepid stratus]

Why not both at once? Battleshock rule with jumpack stratagems

[thin ibex]

if they run off of battleshock, raptors will be a natural fit anyway

[tepid stratus]

I'm just on the edge of my seat waiting to see if Lucius is in the book or not. That'll be our indicator of whether or not EC will be this year or next

[floral herald]

It’ll be interesting to see to see how the nemesis claw/deimos primaris team MU looks

[spice flicker]

I just know we already got the alpha legion detachment: space marines' Vanguard spearhead (for all your alpha legion infiltrator shenanigans.)

[floral herald]

Since they definitely look like thematic foils

Sneaky melee CSM vs sneaky ranged SM

[spice flicker]

Nope sorry my uncle who works for GW confirmed we will be getting the Hrud and Exodites before emperor's Children.

[past sphinx]

CZARN LIVES

[tepid stratus]

Blue balling us EC players would be the most slaanesh thing possible from GW

[spice flicker]

You're not wrong.

[tepid stratus]

Just tease the plastic noise marine kit and never release it until the last day of 10th edition

[thin ibex]

i figure alpha legions shtich will be a lil like vanguard detach, but likely not the same

lots of redeploy shenanigans

[tepid stratus]

Stratagem to automatically deadly demise, stratagem to pass a dead characters enhancement to another character, probably some cultists synergies thrown in

[thin ibex]

kinda hoping soom boosts to cultists, but i guess thats also word bearers shtick

[jaunty dawn]

alpha legion are getting infiltrate

also oh no the mandrakes look so cool

shadestalkers in 40k

the current detachment is the word bearers one

vashtorr detachment will probably be the main cultist one cause that's what his unique army lists did in 9th

[tepid stratus]

I thought his army list was daemon engines?

[jaunty dawn]

oh wait yeah

it's only his boarding action list that was cultist

[spice flicker]

I feel like the current csm one is word bearers

[jaunty dawn]

they kinda said it was

I vaguely hope they were just saying it was appropriate for word bearers and it is black legion after all but I think that's cope

[tepid stratus]

Black Legion will probably be the first company equivalent

Focus on chosen and terminators

It'd be cool to get red corsairs rep. The rumours for Huron and bikes would go well with that

[junior robin]

sadly only 8 detatchments so wont get one...unless emperors children are gone.

[tepid stratus]

EC being gone is my hope. Brings us one step closer to the standalone treatment

[spice flicker]

Would the incubi helmet work for the Archon model?

[tepid stratus]

And red corsairs is the natural choice to fill that gap

[thin ibex]

honestly i thought current detach was the black legion one

[south axle]

Will probably work

[spice flicker]

What do we know are the specialties of the detachments? I know we have a cultist one, raptor, vashtor, vehicles/daemon enginges, but what else?

[junior robin]

there is also that legion of fallen amassed on the other side of the rift that could take the spot 🥺

[floral herald]

This is all spitballing

We just know each legion is getting one

[junior robin]

yeah

[tepid stratus]

Well with 8 detachments we could fit alpha Legion, word bearers, black Legion, iron warriors, night lords, creations of bile (if he doesn't also get bumped to EC), red corsairs and fallen?

[floral herald]

My guess is 6 legions+dark pacts+vashtorr

But red corsairs instead of EC sounds cool

[tepid stratus]

Red corsairs fit the "fast" Legion gimmick EC would normally fill

Vashtor I wonder about tho because he has a lot of overlap with iron warriors that they could be covered in the same detachment

[jaunty dawn]

if slaves to darkness (index detachment) is word bearers

then its 6 legions + red corsairs + vashtorr

and they directly mentioned renegades and vashtorr

and renegades just means red corsairs

I don't think creations of bile will survive cause it's too early to kick out emp's children probably

[tepid stratus]

I wonder how they'd differentiate a vashtor specific detachment from iron warriors? Both would be vehicle/daemon engine themed

[jaunty dawn]

they'd have to do another white dwarf codex but make it last basically the whole edition

[tepid stratus]

Unless iron warriors goes specifically into heavy weapons instead of touching vehicles themselves

[floral herald]

IWs were the Shooting Legion in 9e

[tepid stratus]

It could potentially be a detachment in the EC codex.

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah by then maybe

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... for dark eldar is 2x3 reavers or a 2nd ravager better in a 1k mostly kabal list?

[tepid stratus]

"Gene-crafted warriors" would be a fitting "tough and choppy" detachment for EC

[spice flicker]

Gene-crafted just screams creations of bile more than EC to me at least.

[tepid stratus]

That's the point, it's the creations of bile detachment for EC assuming it doesn't make it into CSM

It kinda comes down to how they want to handle the narrative of Fulgrim gathering his wayward sons and whether Fabius gets included in that

[jaunty dawn]

I mean by the time of ec codex creations of bile could be a whole unit

be the possessed equiv like eightbound

[spice flicker]

That makes sense

[tepid stratus]

I'd love kits for new men/gland hounds + whatever he cooks up with the recently stolen super geneseed

[spice flicker]

Thoughts?

1000/1000
Dark Eldar Skysplinter Assault

Archon, blast pistol, warlord
Archon, blast pistol,

2x10 kabalites, dark lance, splinter cannon

1x court of the Archon (might switch for incubi)

2x3 reavers, cluster caltrops

1x ravager, dark lances
1x tantalus
1x raider, dark lance

Tried to go for a more kabal focus on this list. Unsure about the court but heard they combo well with kaballites in a tantalus.

[final tide]

my roommate and i have discovered that we cannot play rogue trader as a pickup game

as neither of us have fully statted out the points cost per marine per elfdar

so now we have to spend the afternoon calculating the cost per point of the basic statblock and basic gear before we even get to listbuilding

old games

are weird

(love them)

(having a great time)

[tired cairn]

Why are marines being measured in space elves

[final tide]

no like

a basic human statline costs 5 points

every modification to that statline costs Xpts

[tired cairn]

Oh, lol

[final tide]

For example, 1/2 point per point of movement you add

and then an autogun costs 1.5 pts to equip them with

[tired cairn]

And they don't precalculate it for you (for standard space marines)?

[final tide]

nope!

They give you the finished stats

but not the point cost of those stats

[tired cairn]

Any idea of how many models is standard?

lmao why

[final tide]

Cause they gave you the math!!

[final tide]

http://chaptermasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/1421.jpg

like this many

and technically this is like. a lot

of marines

[tired cairn]

Oh, that's a bunch if each one is super customizable

Are you allowed to deviate from the given statlines?

[final tide]

Yes, that's why they give ya the maths

And then a something like, 30% chance a character will be an actual psyker?

the lines between RPG and Wargame are exceedingly blurry in 1987 yasee

[pastel rampart]

This is the sort of shit you make an Excel sheet for, goddamn

[brittle salmon]

How does this differ to the normal rules again? I forget

[floral herald]

It's mostly the same as normal but they don't need the line to actually pass through the cover (just to be near it) and they don't need to be more than 2" from cover

One thing I'm really curious about is if they'll have a tac ops to flip orders or charge from conceal or something

Oh also new balance dataslate today!

Very good changes

no more randomly eating shit for no reason

(This rule always sucked, but you could usually ignore it until Bheta Decima)

The KBD meta isn't completely run by shooting teams which can bypass obscured now!

Relatively hefty vetguard nerfs

Really nice QoL change here

@thin ibex good news for your kroot

There's more but I'm spamming so here's the pdf

[jaunty dawn]

oh hound lost ga though

[floral herald]

That's kind of a wash, GA2 is pretty nice but also having more activations is nice

[jaunty dawn]

yeah over time they now use all the minis in the box at once too so

I think?

[floral herald]

Oh I missed this

That's really big for Warpcoven

[jaunty dawn]

pentagon plus square

its happened

[thin ibex]

oh man, thats like a uniform across the board buff

[floral herald]

Yeah its a real shot in the arm

[compact gate]

im gonna be so sad if admech doesn't get a bespoke kill team this season

i mean its a forge world for crying out loud

[thin ibex]

would be cool to get a sicarian infiltrators or ruststalkers kt

[sweet solar]

https://www.tumblr.com/nictanova/746140319002902528

[spice flicker]

I am done with my 1k points for most factions endeavor. I now have designed a list (whether or not it's good is anyone's guess) that'll work for general games or crusade games for the following factions:

Imperial knights
Chaos knights
Custodes
Grey knights
Black Templars
Guard
Dark angels
Dark Eldar
Eldar
Space Marines
Sisters of Battle
Ad Mech
Tyranids
Votann
Tau
Necrons
CSM
Death Guard
World Eaters
Thousand Sons

(Not a fan of orks, chaos daemons, and GSC which is why they were excluded.)

[floral herald]

They have one tbf

[past sphinx]

ey yo custodes fucking suck to build

or i need more plastic glue

im goign to shoot for the middle

[thin ibex]

Fair though I was meaning bespoke with extra spec ops goodies

[sinful merlin]

https://vxtwitter.com/dragoncobolt/status/1773159982793429095

[brittle salmon]

Warhammer and incredibly janky numbers

Name a more iconic duo

[sinful merlin]

Also darn putting together my rogal dorn and it has a tiny defect in a fairly prominent spot 😔

[past sphinx]

when all you do is sit 4 km away and fire 155's you arent likely to get shot

[junior summit]

could carve it out and turn it into battle damage

[sinful merlin]

yeah I'm thinking of just leaving it as a ricochet instead of messing around trying to clean it up and like, use a strip of plasticard or something to match the rest of the trim there

[pine matrix]

Someone mentioned alternative Heresies yesterday and it got me thinking about an alternative heresy where the Primarchs' home world gets remixed.
In Scars, one for Magnus' shards tells Khan that he was originally intended to go to Fulgrim's home planet, and vice versa, though I don't think directly swapping home worlds is as interesting

Angron landing on Ultramar, Magnus on Fenris and Fulgrim on Chogoris are what I've been considering so far

[solemn gull]

Perturbo on corax’s world would be interesting

[pine matrix]

Ooo, the moon or the forge world? I can imagine he'd be a hit with the tech-guild slavers with his technical brilliance, though I think the moon would never be liberated under him. If he landed among the slaves however, I could see him turning the Forge World's tech against the rulers

[solemn gull]

I'd say forge world just to make it interesting

[pine matrix]

Rip Deliverance

[pulsar cairn]

https://youtube.com/shorts/AsRyanp0cpY?si=qbnTuoB49Pp5ZBoI

Btw, if im a high ranking guard officer and i frag the commissar and i just tell everyone he was being a coward

Am i getting in trouble?

[valid brook]

You’re going to have to answer to some very heavy hitters who are outside your chain of command, have complete authority over you, and will from the start suspect you’re guilty as hell. It would be a tough rap to beat even if you were telling the truth and your commissar really was in the wrong.

[solemn gull]

yep

[pulsar cairn]

Could i get away with it

[solemn gull]

realistically no if you're telling people you killed them no matter what the reason is there will be an investigation

[pulsar cairn]

Dang

[solemn gull]

In fact since commissars are supposed to be the first line of defence against cowardice/treason if your commissar gets killed for being a coward the whole regiment would probably be under suspicion of cowardice as well.

[pulsar cairn]

It was the ork sniper

[bright dove]

There's the other answer though.

[solemn gull]

well that's different from saying you killed him for cowardice

[bright dove]

Are you a Catachan or Krieger?

If you are, chances rise that the matter will be quietly dropped.

[spice flicker]

Is the drukhari combat patrol the best one right now?

Or one of the best?

[thin ibex]

so i tend to think that like

a lot really depends on where and when you are

killing said commissar

and how much the rest of your regiment likes you

iirc, catachans are noted to have very little compunction around fragging a commissar that tries to throw their weight around

and if youre far enough in the field or on deployment that theres not a lot of infrastructure to ask those questions or investigate, chances are enough time passes that the munitorum and the schola take you at your word in terms of whatever you lie about actually happening ot the comissar

and then they tell you youre getting assigned a new one, which has a timer on actually getting to you too

when you're dealing with quasi world war 1 level comms and oversight, you can get by with a lot

[bright dove]

Catachans and Kriegers are both pretty unified, and are the least likely to have snitches

[thin ibex]

iirc valhallans also don't have too many issues with leaving a problematic commissar out to dry, but not to the same level as catachans

[bright dove]

There's also artillery divisions who are always happy to shell a Commissar's position

[thin ibex]

the flipside is that while there are absolutely comissars that wield their powers like a bludgeon like an idiot, most are at least educated in balancing the severity of their role with their survival within the regiment. So while not all of them take those lessons to heart, they're probably at least schooled in doing so

[bright dove]

Yep

It shows with folks like Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM

[desert jay]

I've seen it ranked around 2nd below GSC

[spice flicker]

I saw it looked really good for a Mechanized Infantry army due to having the equivalent to a tank and a transport and was curious. Honestly I am trying to decide between going with Knights (big stompy robots with giant guns that can serve as either imperial or chaos is nice) or with Drukhari (the vehicles and kabal units look cool as well as the fast space pirates feel is neat) but can't really decide and was thinking that doubling or tripling up on the DE combat patrol might work if I go that route instead of knights. Any opinions or suggestions for trying to pick between them?

[rocky shale]

Knights is inherently a slant list that either stomps people who don't bring enough anti-tank or folds to lists with a lot of it. It also doesn't play very well at 1000pts. If it's your first army I'd definitely go drukhari

And 2-3 of the combat patrol is pretty reasonable if you like boats

[past sphinx]

Speaking of slant lists

[zinc field]

Chaos knight “oops all war dog” lists can work at 1000, but it’s still pretty slanted

[thin ibex]

i do feel like knights, generally speaking, are more balanced than the past, but im not sure how they run in casuals

[spice flicker]

Well I mean I do live near a lot of rivers and lakes....

[desert jay]

From what I've seen, knights can deal with a reasonable amount of AT fire, they have more issues with board control, esp against hordey lists

[spice flicker]

Yeah I discussed knights with a friend a while ago who plays gsc and nids and his assessment of knights is that he'd probably struggle to kill the (outside his banesword) but knights might struggle to wipe out his units as well due to number of models and might get bogged down.

[thin ibex]

Remember, don't go chasing waterfalls

[spice flicker]

We're the millers is the first thing that came to mind when you said that.

[rocky shale]

Knights is a great second army IMO since you can have practiced painting more and you'll have something else to play when you don't have a particularly fun matchup

[spice flicker]

So go with drukhari and when the funds for a second army eventually come around go with knights?

Is this the general consensus for the advice?

[thin ibex]

Hmm at least from my point of view, there is something to be said from a play perspective that it takes a lot fewer purchases to get a playable knight army

and transporting them arguably might be easier

From a play perspective, yeah you might be playing a skew army, which can be polarizing, and may or may not be what you want to be playing.

But from a practical perspective, it may be way easier to go for knights

As your first

Though point to the contrary, they may go less to teach you how the game is played

Since they effectively play differently from others

[spice flicker]

Good points

[wintry mist]

if you want to learn to play

then I would say to just do tabletop sim

[upper bluff]

Tabletop sim is a great way to get into the hobby. Just find a friend and try out all the factions you think look cool

It's good to see if you actually like the rules in play

Believe me I'm a 10th edition admech player

[floral herald]

Given the expense (in both money and time spent building/painting) I think it’s better to choose based on tactile modeling preferences over playstyle

[bright dove]

Prioritize things you'll like making

[upper bluff]

There's so many dimensions to all this

[pulsar cairn]

oh yeah...i remember that happening quite a hole lot with them, they even have their own commissars right?

[spice flicker]

The de boats and the knight mechs are all really cool. I do like the idea of Mechanized Infantry with the Skysplinter Assault as well as the tantalus looks awesome. On the other hand the questoris and some of the cerastus (atrapos/lancer/castigator) are nice as well if only gw supported them more instead of adding more nerfs with every update. The castellan also looks to be a good centerpiece model just like the tantalus.

[wintry mist]

that is the most important one

but if you want to learn how to play beforehand

definitely play some tabletop sim

[pulsar cairn]

are kriegsman commissars even trained at the schola? or do they just give the selected krisgman a crash course on how to commissar?

[floral herald]

The former

Though Krieg assigned commissars don’t generally needed execute a lot of troops for cowardice or discipline problems since they’re already so messed up

[spice flicker]

They're commissars given a krieg gas mask to better fit in.

[runic swallow]

Also they aren’t Kriegers

[floral herald]

The meme is that they instead need to find ways to stop them from finding exotic new ways to die for the emperor at the drop of a hat

[runic swallow]

They’re usually there for interfacing with other units and to keep overzealous Krieg commanders in check

[pulsar cairn]

really?

[floral herald]

Yeah commissars are never* from the same place as their assigned regiment

[pulsar cairn]

also i heard their commissars have a harder time pulling them back if anything

is that so they dont feel bad about shooting them in the head?

[floral herald]

* the imperium has gotta have fucked this up occasionally

[pulsar cairn]

oh yeah, that's not really all that difficult to mess up with that many fricking planets they have

shit gets mixed up all the time im pretty sure

[untold swallow]

I made a faction of tempestus scions that are, by a quirk of their home system, all legally related and organized by greater noble house

[runic swallow]

Yeah, I love the joke bits where they have administrative worlds in a decades long civil war over type face or whether to use duplicate or triplicate when filing forms

[untold swallow]

and this causes friction with their commissars

because said commissars are the only motherfuckers not related to the entire rest of the army

[runic swallow]

“You’re not my dad!”

[untold swallow]

Fucking

literally

[pulsar cairn]

cant tell me what to do!

[untold swallow]

Now it's more said like "You are not of House Pilamer, don't deign to tell us how to make war."

[runic swallow]

“Fuckin’ in-law over here thinks he can tell us what to do”

[jaunty dawn]

there's that one regiment where every rifleman is cosplaying a commisar

[upper canopy]

They actually did have to do this at Vraks

the Kriegsmen killed their Commissars so they could rout

en masse

[pulsar cairn]

what does rout mean

[upper canopy]

run away from the battle

[pulsar cairn]

the kriegsman did that?

wow

[upper canopy]

Yeah

Which is very funny when you compare that to the Modern Krieg Meme

[pulsar cairn]

feels a bit out of character for the regiment or did that become a thing recently and that's why it feels weird?

[upper canopy]

Latter

Vraks are the first big Krieg thing

and also they're still human

[pulsar cairn]

tru

[solemn gull]

Krieg commissars are chosen from the schola but only if the dead parents were krieg themselves. They are still indoctrinated with all the normal krieg misery + Commissar training

sometimes though they are still normal functional people due to not being brought up on krieg and given the 24/7 depression speeches

[floral herald]

Do they really need to have Krieg parents? I though scholas just mixed everyone

[thin ibex]

i think krieg never retreating is a hype track, they actually do break and route in reality

[jaunty dawn]

also on vraks they did already have a like super discipline reputation

they just got worfed for chaos space marines

[thin ibex]

also, i feel like valhallans had the stubborn, stoic, unshiftable thing on lock

[floral herald]

I don't think that's really being worfed but yeah

[jaunty dawn]

haha

yeah I don't really either

just thought it was funny

[floral herald]

That's fair!

[solemn gull]

sorta they still keep track of who your parents were, if not how would they know you were a officer's child

[jaunty dawn]

and on vraks csm were like super unexpected

the korps did their suicidal trench runs as ordered, they started to break when suddenly actual khorne berserkers counter-charged

[thin ibex]

generally, fighting in a manner that disregards your own life can be effective against conventional foes, but like... khorne zerkers are another matter. Especially in a trench

[pulsar cairn]

khorne zerkers do that but better

cause they can

[thin ibex]

honestly, there are probably deadlier combatants in the galaxy, but not many for a normal guy. Astartes khornate zerkers would be terrifying in confined spaces

its like hearing that mutant roar from darktide, but paired with revving chainsaws and a much more deadly end result

[spice flicker]

Kaballite warriors, incubi, aspect warriors, and more are all terrifying to consider fighting.

[thin ibex]

im splitting hairs here, but i think khorne zerkers are scarrier, but i admit that on a ground level, as a normal guy, they're all gonna be pretty darn scary

[spice flicker]

I also feel that while khorne berserkers are terrifying especially when they're charging at you, in terms of pure fear factor I think most night lords can give them a run for their money.

[solemn gull]

I think drukhari would terrify me the most, between the fact you can barely fight back and what happens after.

[thin ibex]

well yeah, i think night lords are the resident experts at fear, like they are specifically specialized in it, maybe matched only by a necron psychomancer of skill

but for the psychomancer, its a science, and something they dont feel themselves really

for night lords, its an art

[solemn gull]

drukhari absoloutely tpk your average dark heresy party which are the "Average dude"s to me at least

[upper canopy]

Krieg commissars don't need to be from Krieg

[mental birch]

Dumb idea I had

[upper canopy]

How would kids even get to the schola

[mental birch]

Helldiver scions

Jus gotta figure lut the cape

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/DumbRobotStuff/status/1771462400811606194

[bright dove]

I would say that one of the shortlist of things I'd want to fight in a trench is indeed Khorne Berserkers.

Nightlords are a distant 3rd.

1st place goes to Iron Warriors.

Sorry Kriegers, you're going to get outdone.

[mental birch]

Also some crime

[thin ibex]

yoooo

i want them

[spice flicker]

What AOS faction would you say would fit right in in a soulsborne game if transplated into one of them? What faction from a soulsborne game (such as the Healing Church, Lothric Knights, Cathedral of the Deep) could you see working well (in terms of lore and maybe tabletop) in the age of sigmar setting if it was to appear in one of the realms?

I could see Slaves to Darkness actually working well in a soulsborne game as well as the Ossiarch Bonereapers. In terms of factions/groups from the soulsborne games, Lothric Knights could be interesting due to their own factionalism as well how Lore stated they rode wyverns. I could see Castle Cainhurst being an interesting subfaction of soulblight maybe as well as thr misbegotten possibly being a subfaction of the beast men.

[jaunty dawn]

the winged knights from ds3 would be pretty cool

[south axle]

Bloodborne Hunters as a faction where each unit is a specific Workshop could be neat

[spice flicker]

Manfred come back here and let me test out my new giant pizza cutter on you.

Nito or Wolnir could make an interesting mortarch.

[thin ibex]

The entire Death catalogue tbh, probably most of hte destruction catalogue, seraphon, and cities of sigmar, honestly most of them could fit nicely into soulsborne; From Elden Ring? I could see the a bunch of various options tbh

[south axle]

Skaven have already been in several soulsborne games

[valid brook]

Royal Rat Bullshit, more like

I love DS2 but goddamn

[spice flicker]

Watch Elden Ring 2 will have The Rat Knight which is totally not just queek headtaker by another name.

[south axle]

Anor Londo covered in Warplock Jezzails

[spice flicker]

Honestly the anor londo knights (Silver, Black, and Darkmoon (as well as irythll knights if you count them) could make for an interesting choice for a faction. Give the silver greatbow knights a bonus if on terrain or against targets not in cover. Mark a unit as "sinned" (similar to votann judgment) and darkmoon knights get a bonus to either hits or wounds against said "sinner." Have the Black Knights be the Elites of the faction. Ornstein or Gwyndolin as the centerpiece character leading the faction might be neat.

[still warren]

Think those are just kurnoth great bows, silver great bow knights would work as a proxy honestly

[spice flicker]

With how easy it is to be knocked flat on your butt after getting hit I could see those bows maybe causing a suppressed like effect where those hit are -2 to move as well as advance and charge.

[pine matrix]

Had my first game of 10th edition today with a buddy of mine, unfortunately we had a time limit as we hadn't booked a table, but over all it was fun and gave me lots to think about in terms of my army

I need to get some objective markers and Pain tokens...and maybe a big dice for Command Points....

[spice flicker]

Congrats on the first game and glad to hear you had fun.

[pine matrix]

Incubi are a lot of fun, I managed to slice apart his warlord with Drazhar and my Archon and her squad munched a big squad of marines

[spice flicker]

What was your list?

[pine matrix]

Splintersky Assault
Archon x1
Drazhar x1
Succubus x1
10 Kabalites x1
10 Wyches x1
5 Incubi x2
3 Reavers x1
Ravager x1 with Dark Lances
Raider x2 with a Disintegrator Cannon
Venom x2 with Twin Splinter Rifles

Archon and Drazhar in a Incubi squad each in Venoms, Kabalites and Wyches in Raiders in Deep Strike with the Ravager

[spice flicker]

How do you feel about raider vs venom?

[pine matrix]

Venom seems really best for Incubi really, even though I didn't get to use the ability, being able to scoop the squads back up after wiping out an enemy seems perfect. Raider having the firing deck for Kabalites seems perfect, though the board wasn't big enough to feel like I needed to Advance

Tbh, I don't know why you'd put a shooting unit in a Venom, seems way too small for it to be very effective

[floral herald]

I remember venom blaster trueborn being good in the past

[pine matrix]

Trueborn aren't in the index unfortunately, but I guess I could see a strapped up heavy weapons squad of 5 Kabalites being useful.

Still, I'm a bit like, well why split the squad? You could have 5 heavy weapons Kabalites and then another 5 with splinter rifles, it's not like you're going to disembark them to do anything but claim objectives

[floral herald]

Oh rip lol

[spice flicker]

I thought Kabalite were 10x minimum

[pine matrix]

Yeah, but Venoms let you split a squad into two 5s, one in the venom

I want to bring Scourges next time, both cause they're a cool unit and having some more flying heavy weapons seems a good idea

Reaver was doing a lot of work taking on a Dreadnought

[spice flicker]

Ah i see

Was that a 1k list?

[pine matrix]

Yep! 1050pts

Had two enhancements for the Archon and Succubus but forgot about them lmao

[spice flicker]

Ah

[pine matrix]

Next time!

[spice flicker]

This was a 1k list I designed the other day that I am still debating a few things about:

1000/1000
Dark Eldar Skysplinter Assault

Archon, blast pistol, warlord
Archon, blast pistol,

2x10 kabalites, dark lance, splinter cannon

1x court of the Archon (might switch for incubi)

2x3 reavers, cluster caltrops

1x ravager, dark lances
1x tantalus
1x raider, dark lance

[pine matrix]

I'm unsure about the court, seems neat but the simplicity of the Incubi as a bodyguard plus not having to buy individual resin kits won me over

Kabalites in the raider? Or does the tantalus have capacity?

[spice flicker]

Tantalus has firing deck 16

I also like the model

[pine matrix]

Daaaamn

[spice flicker]

Might remake the list around 2 boxes of the combat patrol and see what I need to exclude to include the tantalus still.

Yeah the idea was kabalites+court+Archon in the tantalus.

[pine matrix]

Hell if you would put everyone in the Tantalus, would you be able to get a Ravager instead of the Raider?

Another ravager I mean

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.....

[solemn gull]

Has anyone made a rpg about knight houses?

[spice flicker]

Nope

Wish there was

[solemn gull]

Between the house politics rp and dope combat it feels perfect

[pine matrix]

Lancer with KTB supplement

Just gotta scale it up

[solemn gull]

Nah I don’t think that would work

[spice flicker]

Mekton zeta

[spice flicker]

So the combat patrol consists of an Archon, 10x kaballites, 5x incubi, a raider, and a ravager which I think is around 455 points meaning 2 boxes would be about 910.

985/1000 points

Archon
Archon

2x10 kabalite warriors
1x5 incubi

2x ravagers, 3x dark lances each
Tantalus
Raider

If I removed the tantalus I could add in a 2nd raider, 5 more incubi, and have 90 points to spare so maybe a set of reavers, 5 more incubi, a third raider, or if I remove an Archon I can do 2 sets of reavers and still be below 1000.

[pine matrix]

But the tantalus is very cool 👀

[spice flicker]

I Mean there isn't anything stopping me from taking 2 in a 2000 points list since they're only 230 points.

But yeah to fit a tanatalus in 1000 points with 2 combat patrol boxes I'd need to remove a squad of incubi and a raider.

[spice flicker]

2000 points double tantalus WIP list:

1975/2000 points
Skysplinter Assault

Drazhar
Archon, warlord, phantasmal smoke
Archon, spiteful raider

3x10 kabalite warriors, dark lance+splinter cannon (warlord here somewhere)

2x10 incubi (Drazhar and non-warlord Archon here)
5x mandrakes (mostly for secondaries)

3x reavers, heat lance (mostly for hit/run and secondaries)

3x ravagers, dark lances
2x tantalus (carrying 2 kabalite squads with warlord)
2x raiders, dark lances (carrying incubi squads.)

[pine matrix]

Niiiiice

[past sphinx]

i rivinting rebuttle insominac

[uneven ember]

Pavel says hello.

(Pavel is my cat.)

I was just thinking of my old Guardsman PC, and a little scene about the day he realized that, even though there are almost endless regulations and infractions for the poor bloody infantryman, he'd never seen any mention of a punishment for attempting to strike the Commissar.
And he puzzled it out for a while, until the day he realized: the Guard never mentions a punishment for attacking a Commissar because they don't want it to be forbidden, they want it to be unthinkable
They worry that "the punishment for attacking the Commissar is horrible death" will still convey "the Commissar can be struck. The Commissar is mortal. You have a gun and training in its use."

[past sphinx]

He bears the sacred CVS receipts

[spice flicker]

Truly the right to return products within 30 days will always be his.

[uneven ember]

Should he ever be purchasing $10 or more of store brand makeup, his $2 off cannot be denied

[spice flicker]

Shall his blade ever break and run out of ammo, the receipt is long enough for him to garrote his way to safety.

[past sphinx]

idk why GW doesnt have silver accents on their Stodes, really makes them pop

[spice flicker]

They're not called the Golden banana boys for nothing

[solemn gull]

that armour looks great!

blade looks the best though

like something by a pro painter

[past sphinx]

when im not a total lazy fuck the 13 years of doin this do come through occasionally 😉

thank you

[floral herald]

Yeah it does a lot for them with the little highlights

I think a lot of my distaste for the models is just the studio paint job

Cause I don’t really like how they look on the website

[spice flicker]

So I am testing out 40k on tts and I have the board and everything ready... except there are no textures or terrain for the map. Well this is just a test anyway so let's go I guess.

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/Lorgarwasright/status/1773223489001930885?s=20

Lorgar Aurelian (@Lorgarwasright) on X

Twitter · Mar 28, 2024, 5:39 AM

[thin ibex]

Silly full mounted attack custodes force

You know, I'm curious why they wouldn't mount a missile launcher on the atv instead of a multi melta

[past sphinx]

now if only bikes werent dogwater this edition

[thin ibex]

Yeah they're a little underwhelming for sure

I think they can still do pretty good shredding elites and infantry

They just don't pop armor anymore

[past sphinx]

yeah they where a bit of an oppressive presence previously

[thin ibex]

Firmly in the "can do ok in casual, but not competitive." Mostly I think due to the points

Oh I saw Wallace was making drukhari lists, maybe I'll give it a shot, they're the faction I least understand

[dense sedge]

Drukhari and gsc are my favourites

[pulsar cairn]

Btw

Sigmar had some guys who were redeemed chaos warriors right?

How did that work? Could he heal their corruption?

Or was it mostly with folks who werent too far gone into the juice?

[jaunty dawn]

I think its basically as long as theres something in them thats heroic sigmar can snatch their soul and forge away corruption

one of the most gone nurgle chaos warriors got redeemed so it is possible

he got whacked by sigmar's hammer and all the chaos bits of his soul were burned away

sigmar's hammer is used by the celestant prime though

less magically speaking there are former like darkoath tribespeople who turned away from chaos of their own free will

but they werent really juiced so they didnt need spiritual healinh

[pulsar cairn]

neat

[spice flicker]

Gatrog is another chaos champion I wish we could have gotten seen redeemed. His last words were kinda touching knowing that he died because this champion of nurgle sacrificed himself to save Tornus (the champion who became a stormcast) from a shade of the former nurglite's past. Note that he was fighting off the shade of the stormcast using said stormcast's sword which is supposed to burn at the touch for anything corrupted by chaos.

"I am a true knight, Torglug. That is all I ever wished to be..."

[jaunty dawn]

this is a kinda interesting way of thinking about modularity

like you look at this and it's like

this isn't very modular, I-V are in pretty much every game mode

but the idea of like

a battlepack being able to much more seamlessly entirely replace game mechanics

like the current GHB season they mentione basically hacks a magic dice resource system into aos

the idea that they could like entirely replace how magic works from the ground up rather than kinda hacking it is really interesting

[desert jay]

I think it's so you could eg. replace II with IIa if you needed without touching the rest

[pulsar cairn]

Give me 40k characters with regular names

[south axle]

Captain Steve of the NormMarines

[jaunty dawn]

Strike Force Just Ian

led by captain Ian

[floral herald]

Honestly, I think Luis Dante might have the most normal sounding name in 40k

Alessio Cortez and Anton Zerbe are also pretty normal

[jaunty dawn]

his name is luis??

[floral herald]

yeah

[thin ibex]

Lieutenant Frank of the Imperial Fists

[upper canopy]

The Crimson fists

Chapter Master Pedro

[tired cairn]

I'm curious as to how they will make models' rules interact with a modular system in both interesting and not messy ways

[junior robin]

god I wish 40k could get advanced rules so we maybe could gets options for stuff like back in 3e

[tired cairn]

Say, for example, we find out during the course of a season of Matched Play that the economy of Command points isn’t quite right for competitive play. We don’t need to issue an errata online; instead, we could have a new General’s Handbook with a new Command Module that is both thematically resonant and helps evolve the internal balance.

This sounds worse?

[floral herald]

GW already kind of does this in all but name with mission packs and such

So I think codifying it is nice

[pastel rampart]

I dunno, if a season of Matched Play is imbalanced and their solution is to just sell a new book then it's kinda not great.

[floral herald]

What I mean is that that's already the case

Like in 9e 40k the comp meta changed a few times as for example the Arks of Omen mission packs cycled in

I agree its not great though

[still warren]

It kinda sounds like they're just change the rules online instead of just having a list of errata?

[thin ibex]

I mean, the main thing with a season of matched play is that its temporally capped

releasing an errata or balance adjustment for that, mid season, can seem a bit like a fools errand

but releasing a rules change/adjustment after the fact doesnt seem terrible

i guess selling one would be bad, but pairing the rules change with a lot of like lore content and potentialy mechanical add ons doesn't seem awful

[spice flicker]

Which crusade books is better in 10th: pariah nexus or leviathan?

[floral herald]

I've heard better things about Pariah Nexus

But I haven't followed either very closely

[spice flicker]

Thanks

[proud wing]

pretty good quote I saw:

"In every artwork depiction of T'au the T'au are losing. Because if the T'au were winning they'd be ten miles away."

[valid brook]

Extrapolated from “if you willingly enter into a fair fight, you’re setting yourself up to lose”

[tired cairn]

Oh, they changed the fog in the current kill team zone to be LoS blocking instead of obscuring. My condolences to Phobos teams

[floral herald]

condolences

They don't need it lmfao

They went from being the number 2 team running the map un a format so unbalanced tournaments wouldn't pick it up to balanced

[tired cairn]

Wild. But also you would have thought this would have been forseeanable lol

[floral herald]

Yeah it was a really weird choice to make it Obscured in the first place

Honestly it worked fine for most teams but Phobos and Pathfinders were just busted on it

With strong obscured ignoring shooting

[tired cairn]

Wrath and Glory: Threat Assessment: Xenos is pretty funny because every faction is some variant of "they only engage in unfair fights with overwhelming advantage". Except orks, who are just noted for being very aggressive

[proud wing]

TIL about Warhammer Adventures, a series for young children about a group of heroic teenagers helping protect the great Imperium from rotten xenos

and ngl, I feel like that kind of shatters the idea that 40K is satire

and makes me feel a bit gross

[runic swallow]

Hey, maybe there’d be nearby if it’s like, a forward air observer or something

[junior robin]

they really should give crisis suits chainsaws, as a treat.

[upper canopy]

Tau don't even snipe is the thing

Like

Their battle doctrine is to aggressively push

They NEVER defend

[floral herald]

I don’t think that’s a super fair assessment of them

I haven’t read them but a lot of my fears were assuaged by this review

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/mGWeJz4thm

[quaint compass]

I wouldn't say that they don't snipe

They start out sniping, and by the end of things they're in the enemy base and the enemy is mysteriously swiss cheese shaped

And they do value defensive actions, but mobility is the core of their doctrines, offensive and defensive

Tidewalls are just trenches that can flank

[past sphinx]

the tau dont snipe they just fire with extreme accuracy from beyond the horizon

they just happen to be running at you at the time

i swear the fire caste are roughly 45 minutes and a Mcdonalds happy meal from going full rambo without the ethreals aorund

[quaint compass]

Observe, the Farsight Enclaves

[runic swallow]

…oh god are they US Marines? But without a close combat focus? Which I realize is part of the marines whole thing, but still

[quaint compass]

Breachers 😌

I yearn for the day they introduce a character dual-wielding pulse blasters like a cowboy

[jaunty dawn]

el'myamoto 2

[quaint compass]

Beh'Lasto

the Fucker-Upper

[proud wing]

like my fundamental issue is that Warhammer is a series that constantly idolizes an extremely evil and stereotypically fascist empire that genocides anyone they consider different and bury schoolchildren alive for disobeying their teachers. 90% of 40K media isn't really critical of the Imperium in any way, but I always felt like there was a sort of plausible deniability of satire from the "cruelest regime imaginable" preamble.
Choosing to make a children's story where the turbo-fascists are The Good Guys comes across to me as just, fucked up.

Reading most of that post and skimming the rest, it analyzes the book's quality as children's literature, but not the implications of it being children's literature in the first place

[floral herald]

You’ll have to find the part where it does that, I can’t

Less blithely I think you’re importing a bunch of weird charged assumptions and I’m not that interested in taking this on as some kind of debate for a book I haven’t read

[proud wing]

the context I'm coming from is reading this
https://timcolwill.com/40K.html

like, i don't know the specific content of the books, but it's clear that they are children's books in which the Imperium is the protagonist, which feels icky to me considering the Imperium's whole...everything

[floral herald]

That’s actually not clear to me and I don’t think this sort of speculative opinion is meaningful

[jaunty dawn]

as far as I can tell the kids are the protagonist and are just trying to notdie

[floral herald]

That’s my understanding as well - I haven’t read it either

But there’s a massive gulf between that and “the imperium is the protagonist”

[floral herald]

I used to think that that piece was interesting - and I think some of the ticker news stuff is valuable - but on rereads I’ve really soured on it

The analysis is very weak and it seems more interested in trying to be provocative than actually like accurate

Tim Colwill eventually comes off as one of those “ought to have an emoji in the corner indicating what emotion the audience ought to feel about the current scene on tv” kind of media readers tbh

[jaunty dawn]

my first uh. response is that it kinda talks about how rogue trader is romanticised and it's satirical nature overstated

and then immediately says 2000ad was the Real Satire

and like. I've read judge dredd. it is not any better

[floral herald]

Yeah 2000 AD is not so different from 40K in general

Dredd in particular is honestly way murkier than 40K is a lot of the time with the “this is bad actually” background imo

But I think some of that is serialization stuff with comics more than anything

[jaunty dawn]

like yeah dredd sometimes fights the judge concept in general but it's like

indistinguishable from any other 'good cop' copaganda

and ultimately his goal is to restore the fascist police state to the level of facism he likes

[runic swallow]

Yeah, it does have some real dark arcs, the Democracy storyline especially, but it’s also a lot of “hey the evil death judge from the dead dimension is wreaking havoc at the fat guy convention”

[tired cairn]

Dread (2012) was like, the cops are corrupt, but the right answer is to murder your way to the bad guys and then revenge-kill them

[floral herald]

Jeez it’s like you read my mind I was thinking of that very arc when I wrote “murky”

I will say that something I think does exist is the gap between the setting as it exists in black library or even the codices and such and the setting as it exists in GW adcopy text

Because the latter is I think the real source of GW imperium glazing allegations

[desert jay]

The official adcopy is really like that yeah

[floral herald]

Like this is maybe the least nuanced thing ever haha

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/29/warhammer-40000-leviathan-whats-in-the-box/

The miniatures are divided into 25 elite, battle-hardened Space Marines* – the Imperium’s ultimate defenders against innumerable horrors – and a seething swarm of 47 ravenous Tyranids that desire nothing more than to consume all the biomass in the galaxy. Let’s take a closer look at each army.

The Space Marines are the Emperor’s Angels of Death, vengeful warriors who have sworn an oath to protect the beleaguered Imperium from all assailants. As the jaws of Hive Fleet Leviathan close on the Galactic West, they’ve got their work cut out for them, and are deploying new units to combat the Tyranid threat.

[desert jay]

Like even the Commissar you only need to change 3 words to change it from "mixed" to "positive"

[floral herald]

But like even the most brainless bolter porn (that I’ve read) is way more nuanced

[desert jay]

("ruthless" -> "implacable" and "summarily execute" -> "punish")

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/astra-militarum-commissar-2023

[floral herald]

Now I’m wondering what the experience is like for people who get into 40K via adcopy and then read nearly any book haha

[past sphinx]

i love 2000AD but it comes from such a different time and headspace i really cannot suggest it to people because it plays itself so very very straigght

and dredd is a direct response to american police media, just dialed up like 3 more notches

[desert jay]

Me: "Hey let's read the adcopy of the Eversor assassin, you know the one with the skull helmet"

[past sphinx]

1970s copaganda was fucking nuts

[desert jay]

Welp: https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/Eversor-Assassin

[past sphinx]

"Assassins protect the future of humanity by eliminating the few who become tainted with treachery, greed, the daemonic or other evils too heinous to name."

lmao

[floral herald]

Oh my GOD

This one is so ludicrous it kind of wraps around to being good implied in universe satire holy shit

[desert jay]

I hurt myself laughing

[floral herald]

“Assassins protect the future of humanity” is already like 10/10 no notes goofy stuff

[past sphinx]

"The Eversor Temple believes that the best way to eliminate a target is in a blaze of psychotic fury, disregarding factors such as collateral damage, practicality or the potential innocence of bystanders."

perfection

[jaunty dawn]

their selfless actions

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on the ophydian destroyers?

[past sphinx]

less cool scorpek destoryers

[floral herald]

I think they look fucking sick but I don’t really know how meta they are

[jaunty dawn]

wraith boys

[desert jay]

Report on the other three assassins: Same first paragraph, but unlike the Eversor the second paragraphs are played dead straight

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on this list?

Hypercrpt Legion
995/1000

Overlord, warlord, resurrection orb, voidscythe
Technomancer

2x10 warriors
5x deathmark
5x lychguard, blade+shields
3x ophydian destroyers

3x lokhust destroyers
2x2 lokhust heavy destroyers, Gauss destructor
3x canoptek wraiths, claws+particle casters

[thin ibex]

It's aggressive and works. Your primary AT contingent might be a bit fragile though

But if you can clear most other components quickly, you'll be fine

[past sphinx]

40k is impressive to me with just how fast it got hit by coolguy syndrome

like shadowrun got hit really really fucking hard but it took 4 editions

[bright dove]

I wouldn't call the coolguy hit fast.

[desert jay]

You can see a lot of it in 2e -> 3e

[proud wing]

like, the article isn't perfect, there are some parts i definitely disagree with. but across modern warhammer media, space marines are treated as cool and noble far, far, far more often than they're ever criticized in any way

i don't think it's media illiterate to think the franchise is not really making an effort to be satirical most of the time

[past sphinx]

space marines are unironically the good guys in 40k

are they monsterous? yes

if you account for literally anything about them, how they are made or the society they exist to uphold are they good? no

but uhh

thats a grimdark space catholic bearing the fucking sign of the cross

"by this sign you shall conquer" shit

[floral herald]

I’m about to take a nap but to be clear I’m not saying it’s media illiterate to say that, I even posted the stuff about the adcopy. I just think that article’s analysis to get to those conclusions is really pretty poor

[thin ibex]

Yall think the Fusion crisis is better for a 1k list or the plasma/ missiles?

[floral herald]

My inclination is plasma/missiles

[past sphinx]

fusion if you think you can get em stuck in

but only if

[thin ibex]

I'm running Enforcer commander for my theme

He's heavily armored to fight in the hive city

[floral herald]

1k lists need a lot of flexible TAC guys since you don’t get as many

[thin ibex]

They have a nice reroll 1s rule too

I figure if my commander is frequently fighting cultists abs so on, Plasma and missiles help him deal with many target types

While heavier overwatch targets armor and lighter infantry targets infantry

[past sphinx]

5 stodes in 2 days, not bad

[past sphinx]

actually i should fill those cracks with grass tufts

[spice flicker]

Stormtalus I don't want to ping you but if you see this I have a request for your assistance: a good 2000 points tau list with the ta'unar supremacy armor with no crisis suits and no kroot models. Do you think you can help?

[spice flicker]

So I forgot I have an AT-AT model saved in tabletop Simulator and now I can't help but think: what model would the AT-AT actually serve as a good proxy for on tabletop?

[past sphinx]

warhound

[spice flicker]

Model is actually smaller than a porphy but bigger than a baneblade

[past sphinx]

ah hmm

[spice flicker]

Infantry squad member, baneblade, and knight porphyion for scale.

[past sphinx]

sentinal squadron

[spice flicker]

Oh?

Doom stalker might work due to height

[thin ibex]

Ima give this a go, will ping you when i roll it up

[spice flicker]

Thanks friend

[thin ibex]

ah huh, i dont have the new tau info, we havent gotten points

so itll be with index tau

[spice flicker]

That's fine

[thin ibex]

Here's my first go at it

Kind of a reverse process, the Tau Nar is 100% volume fire, meant to focus fire down infantry blobs with impunity. Ideally you split fire using three aura from shadowsun, but on high priority it's tetras. You use the skyrays to focus down armor or high priority tough targets.

You play cagey with your devilfish and yvara, spring on round 3 to give you some objective aggression. Prahnas to charge block, vulture targets, fast move

The tetras also turn its high volume fire into effective anti armor

Set up for lots of shooting is honestly just an incredible amount of firepower

[thin ibex]

In retrospect, might be worth to get a character to put through unity devastation on, to give the tau nar lethals

[spice flicker]

Nice work and thanks for your assistance.

[thin ibex]

Admittedly the yvara is over costed so toss could probably be refined, but it's got real nice field aggression

[spice flicker]

Could do a Hammerhead and strike team instead?

[thin ibex]

could do, depends on how many force forward elements you want

since the tau nar is gonna largely stand and shoo

[thin ibex]

cause you want to try and be able to hold your objectives and probably like the center objective

unless you wanna take airdroppers like vespid to try and take their DZ zone

[thin ibex]

I wanna build warhound lists but they just feel like they don't output enough

i guess if i brought a megabolter that might help with output

megabolter + turbo laser

or twin plasma blast guns maybe

i do wish the warhound had some more point defense gear

like stubbers or hbs

or even, dare i say, multi lasers

something that comes to mind to me is like a chin mounted set of weapons or something

maybe twin assault cannons, twin hbs or something

[soft willow]

Yeah, it doesn’t hit much harder than some of the shootier knights though it does take more to take one down.

[jaunty dawn]

thats what secutarii are for I guess

[past sphinx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Cb2S7BVPE

[floral herald]

I don’t believe this for a second but the first half is pretty funny

[jaunty dawn]

second paragraph is great

just like hey man this is my downtime

[pastel rampart]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/29/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-is-the-priority-roll/ Double turn is still in.

[brittle salmon]

Maybe it'll be less stupid now

[jaunty dawn]

depends how tight battle tactics will be if you can afford to lose any

[brittle salmon]

I still think it's conceptually a terrible idea, but whatever

If what they're saying in the article is correct, the actual biggest impact it has is causing newer or less skilled players to be pubstomped at the whim of 1d6

[floral herald]

I think double turns are ok for AA games but double turn igyg seems brutal

[jaunty dawn]

it kinda depends on the faction

[floral herald]

I like the “whoever sets up first chooses turn order” tho

[brittle salmon]

AA it can work fine yeah

[jaunty dawn]

in theory anything that is genuinely too ridiculous if it gets a double turn is undercosted

because the melee that most factions use to actually do damage is alternating

but uh. tbh. 40k solved the first turn problem by making the board absolutely full of terrain

I don't think that would work with aos

and if you get rid of double turn, you just have first turn and it's basically the exact same problem

[brittle salmon]

But you... already have first turn?

Why not get rid of one part of the problem

[jaunty dawn]

the double turn is an advantage the second player has

that counteracts the first turn advantage

like that's why it exists

[brittle salmon]

If they win the die roll

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it's a high value d6 roll but at least there's 5 times as many of them

[brittle salmon]

I'll be completely real, if that's why it exists, why is it random

[jaunty dawn]

so neither player can entirely plan around it?

[brittle salmon]

But you can plan around your first turn

You see why it's a false equivalency?

[jaunty dawn]

that kinda depends if battle regiments still exist

if most lists are one drop then you're rolling for first turn after you deploy

and not preparing to be okay going first or second is the exact same problem as not preparing for the possibility of a double turn

[floral herald]

What’s one drop in this case?

[brittle salmon]

It literally says whoever sets up first chooses turn order

[jaunty dawn]

sorry I got that slightly wrong, you do deploy then choose turn order

I was thinking of previous editions of 40k

[floral herald]

There’s iirc a lot less shooting in AoS so it’s probably less nasty than it was in 40K

[jaunty dawn]

in theory that's the point yes

[floral herald]

But I remember 40K being the game of extremely cowardly deployments haha

[jaunty dawn]

shooting and magic is supposed to be much more highly priced

[floral herald]

Just in case you went second

[jaunty dawn]

or like fights first as well

cause most people's damage is in melee, where you alternate fighting

the double turn is a tempo/maneuver advantage but doesn't actually increase what is meant to be the main way of fighting

I'm not saying the game has always been perfectly balanced and achieved that

but any mechanic can be bad if the game is unbalanced

[floral herald]

Ok I can see how that can offset the first movers advantage

[jaunty dawn]

like in 40k if you don't setup the board to be able to essentially deploy entirely out of line of sight

or really even if you do you kinda have the same problem where an unskilled player can just be stomped for deploying wrong

but in the case of aos the mistake is in overextending rather than deploying kinda thing

[brittle salmon]

Isn't AoS fight phase like in 40k, where one side does all its attacks first, then the other one does?

[jaunty dawn]

lol no

even 40k isn't like that after charging

but aos doesn't even have chargers fight first

[brittle salmon]

I mean per combat, my friend

[jaunty dawn]

per unit sure

it's not simultaneous

but in aos its rare you're gonna be able to achieve anything only sending one unit to fight at a time

[floral herald]

Oh so it’s mostly like big multi-unit melees?

Or at least often

[jaunty dawn]

yeah and multiple fronts

[floral herald]

Makes sense

[jaunty dawn]

like if you fight on only one front you do have an advantage on that front

but then you're cedeing the others to your enemy so

[brittle salmon]

I appreciate you explaining this, Penny, but it hasn't changed my mind on the mechanic

[jaunty dawn]

that's fair

[brittle salmon]

Its a band-aid fix at best and something that actively drives players away at worse

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I like igyg and would hate to see it removed so that's my perogative lol

like it has a lot about it that sucks but

so do other things and it's nice to be able to rotate games to escape each one's jank

[floral herald]

That’s fair

[mental birch]

I mean the tau are a reference to like modern millitary

[tepid stratus]

The priority change in AOS is gonna come down to how battle tactics are handled in the new edition. Otherwise it's basically the same. Lowest drops picks first turn order, then rolling for the rest with ties going to the player that started the round. What I'm wondering, since it wasn't made clear in the wording they use, do you only lose the tactic if you choose to take the double? Or can your opponent for you to lose a tactic by giving you the double after they win the roll off?

Because that opens a fascinating opportunity for a player in a very defensive position to try to widen a points lead or close a gap by forcing their opponent to take a turn of reduced scoring. Alternatively it becomes more of a risk for an aggressive player whose behind on points to try to force a win at cost to their final score (which really only matters in multi game formats like tournaments or league play)

[thin ibex]

I know a new edition is coming but... how are seraphon for a first army/ game learning for aos?

I know that ultimately you get what you like and learn to play that though

Hobby cost too much money to get a training wheels army xD

If I frequented a game shop, training wheels armies would be the ones nice people let you run out of their collection while at the store

[tepid stratus]

Depends on the flavour of seraphon you enjoy. Starborn (magic heavy) has a high skill floor while coalesced (tougher dinos) is much more straightforward in being a combat army

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/DreadAnon/status/1774211031981502613

[storm schooner]

Bussiness school clanrat real

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on the heldrake?

I love the model but well does it actually perform?

[pulsar cairn]

https://youtube.com/shorts/KcfGVCAOxXs?si=CaxwOZxm-9t7OINn

[pulsar cairn]

these star wars guys could fit right in as a guard regiment

their planet has real shitty weather, send em to planets like that and bam

[novel cove]

https://fixvx.com/101ho_/status/1774481375946801445?s=20

[thin ibex]

Because it's a flier it's generally knocked down a peg for having no OC and being easily targeted. I think it can do ok, but you're gonna have to work to make it worth the points per battle. It's cool as heck though so you know, I'd still take it

CW gagging noises

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLh4MebR/

[pastel rampart]

https://fixupx.com/ChumiiCham/status/1774437471587041656?s=20

[pine matrix]

Venom for my Incubi

[uneven ember]

ohh, I like it
What do you do, black wash over purple?

[pine matrix]

Black base with white and grey slapchop, then purple speed paint/contrast!

[uneven ember]

Cool!

[jaunty dawn]

flyer issues but the world eater one seems pretty alright

does mortal wounds

[spice flicker]

World Eaters crusade force was what I was debating the heldrake over. I think I might go with exalted eightbound+chaos spawn instead.

Also debated doing world eater bumper cars (spam berserkers+rhinos) for the 1k crusade list but wasn't sure.

[thin ibex]

A flier in a WE crusade seems fun

And adds a layer of personality to the army

Even if it's not particularly an amazing unit

[dense sedge]

drukhari have cool stuff

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/ChumiiCham/status/1774437471587041656

https://fxtwitter.com/ChumiiCham/status/1739338849615012305/photo/1

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... Deathwatch vs Grey Knights vs Sisters of Battle for a crusade force led by an inquisitor? Essentially Ordo Xenos vs Ordo Malleus vs Ordo Hereticus?

[uneven ember]

Drukhari do have cool stuff.
I generally love how many of their vehicles and whatnot are pretty clearly, like, pleasure boats with guns bolted on.

[jaunty dawn]

sisters of battle

cause thats where half the inquisition models live rn

plus the generic inqusitor doesnt have a whole lot of flavour to be a specific ordo

so it helps to have more models to carry that flavour

[spice flicker]

Ok

[desert jay]

There's inquisition models in SOB?

[jaunty dawn]

crusaders death cult

are more from the inquisition side of witch hunters

and used to be part of acolyte squads

[desert jay]

I thought they were Ministorum

[jaunty dawn]

i mean theyre not not ministorium

[desert jay]

Look as far as acolytes go, the Inquisition finds a lot of useful lackeys from all corners

[jaunty dawn]

like the crusader models were literally designed for acolyte squads

while the death cult assassins were their own unit but could only be taken if your army had an inquisitor or inquisitor lord

by contrast arco flagellants had the same rule but for priests

and penitent engines

[spice flicker]

The current SoB crusade WIP draft I have is as follows

990/1000

Cannoness, blessed blade, Inferno Pistol
Palatine, plasma pistol

2x10 battle sisters squad, heavy bolter+storm bolter

10x celestian Sacresants, maces+spear and inferno pistol on leader
2x10 Dominion squads with melta guns on 4, simuralcum, and inferno pistol on superior
1x5 Zephyrim Squad, banner+plasma pistol on leader

2x castigators, autocannons+storm bolter+hunter killer missile

What would you suggest swapping for the no-name inquistor?

[jaunty dawn]

canonness probably

[spice flicker]

Cannoness was going to be paired with the sacresants but ok

[jaunty dawn]

shes um

idk shes just not as cool as the palatine rn haha

if youre happy to use legends you could also do terminator inqusitor + grey knights though

also if the inquisitor is leading I think a palatine just makes more sense as a 2nd in command

[spice flicker]

Didn't know too much of SoB Lore so ok

What really is the difference between cannoness and palatine?

Also I know regular sisters aren't the best right now but is heavy bolter+storm bolter good to go with or should I do flamer+Heavy flamer?

[jaunty dawn]

basically the same deal as a captain and lieutenant

battle sisters are pretty good at holding backfield objectives and the heavy bolter is quite nice for doing that

got the range n stuff

also looks awesome

but if you're taking two Id probably just take one of each

synergise as they level up in crusade stuff n the like

[spice flicker]

Thanks

Everything else good with the list though?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I think so

np

[spice flicker]

Alright

[uneven ember]

arco flagellants were from Inquisitor first, IIRC

[jaunty dawn]

sounds right yeah

their first 40k models were 2004

[pastel rampart]

Unless you count the Inquisitor model, anyway.

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah I meant 40k as in the game

so like the first 28mm models were 2004

[thin ibex]

Oo I'll try my own hands at a SoB crusade list

[thin ibex]

Feels decently balanced

Sisters novitiates the weakest link of course

But I like the idea of the faith filled fng's looking to get a bite of the emperors enemies, led by a zeal filled dogmata

With the saintly example rule, so if they get targeted down hard, the opponent hands me d3 miracle dice

[junior robin]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/01/thank-bribe-your-loved-ones-with-our-shiny-bright-new-warpstone-jewellery-range/

[pastel rampart]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKCKqJrXAAAbdEq?format=jpg&name=small

[tired cairn]

Lucky for the guard players that max squad size is only 20 these days

[spice flicker]

This is my joking "let's bog down angron" list in response to the meme. Note this isn't a serious list and is more of a test of how many guardsmen can fit in a list.

2000/2000 points

1x commissar

6x20 cadian shock troops
6x20 infantry squads
4x20 catachan infantry squads
1x10 catachan infantry squad

1x rapier laser destroyer battery

330 guardsmen is the maximum amount in a 2000 points list. Catachans are the cheapest at 5.5 a model while all but kriegsmen are 6 a model.

[tired cairn]

It might do ok at point scoring lol

[bright dove]

That is an army that would have to actively work to not score points.

[tired cairn]

Everyone will hate the game, including you lol

[spice flicker]

I wonder if you can put more gaunts or guards in a list?

Also considering if you save your CP, you can get some of the Guards that die to come on back. You don't win by drowning your foe in gunfire, you win by drowning them in your own corpses and keeping them bogged down and away from objectives/secondaries.

Also if you go into this with the mindset of massed Human wave tactics the comissar does seem very fitting for a leader.

Catachans are 5.5 points a model
Infantry/cadian shock troops are 6 points a model
Kriegs guardsmen are 6.5 points a model

Neurogaunts are about 4.1 points a model
Termagaunts are 6 points a model
Hormagaunts are 6.5 points a model
Gargoyles are 8 points a model

So yeah you could build an all guardsmen army and easily outnumber an all gaunt army thanks to points being cheaper overall and the reinforcements Stratagem. Turns out mankind is the unending swarm and not the tyranids.

[ebon forge]

Inspiring AND sad

[bright dove]

"What are you going to do about tanks?"

"Stop them from being able to move with a mountain of bodies"

[ebon forge]

Misslick sorry

[ebon forge]

https://youtu.be/oQpGI_M1ogk?t=271 meant to reply with this

[spice flicker]

I mean with most forces by the time by can chew through one 20 man blob you can move another into its place an possibly replace it with another using reinforcements.

I mean I'm pretty sure it'd be next to impossible for 2000 points of knights to kill a majority of this army or maybe even half of it.

[bright dove]

Correct.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean unending swarm also has reinforcements

[spice flicker]

It does? I must have forgotten about it.

[jaunty dawn]

and realistically the detachment ability n such more than makes up for not getting catachan

[thin ibex]

the biggest struggle is generally just taking control of the midboard objective

[jaunty dawn]

or you just go crazy and take 60 neurogaunts

[thin ibex]

on the massive horde lists, generally your opponent just didnt bring enough infantry shredding firepower

to deal wit hthat volume of wounds

so if you stack up on home objectives, your enemy simply cant take them