Warhammer and Such

[pastel rampart]

There is a hired sword that's a Priest of Morr.

https://broheim.net/downloads/resources/Hired Sword Compendium.pdf#page=35 Stat-wise pretty weak, but got some decent spells.

[jaunty dawn]

kinda wanna play mordheim just to take a billion dogs

and by a billion I mean 6

[pastel rampart]

Dogs are good for the first...maybe 3 games or so, but once the rest of the warband gains experience they quickly fall out of favor.

[jaunty dawn]

that's sad :(

just end up taking up your max model cap?

[pastel rampart]

They never get experience so they never improve. A S4 A2 missile for like 15 gold crowns isn't terrible early on, mind.

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[pastel rampart]

Ah sorry they don't get 2 attacks

[jaunty dawn]

makes sense

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/K2Fm5/802208a1ca.png

M6 means they zooooooooooom though

http://puu.sh/K2Fmh/1bd74ed554.png

Meanwhile, skaven.

http://puu.sh/K2Fmu/2af2bd4d05.png

Undead wolves are terrifying.

[jaunty dawn]

ws 4 and i 4 too. start out better but never progress

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

[jaunty dawn]

oh jeeze those are some fast dead dogs

[pastel rampart]

Yeah they're horrifying on the charge because that's just 18" forward, right in your face, oh sigmar I don't have a throat any more gurgle

[jaunty dawn]

let slip the dogs of war indeed

[pastel rampart]

BUT they're 50 gold crowns, and warbands start at 500gc for hiring/equipment. And that's a lot for something that never improves.

Undead warbands have serious problems because yes, the vampire is a goddamn blender and most things in it cause Fear, but 2 out of 3 of your henchmen don't gain experience and your other hero choices are the necromancer (weak) and dregs (even weaker)

http://puu.sh/K2Fnj/f3ee36a7ba.png

Ghouls are your only henchemn who can gain experience but their stats suck. They cause fear (not shown), which is something, but WS2 is a bit rough later on.

And also, see that "never carry equipment" thing? This isn't something that would normally come up because henchmen can't use equipment, which is a separate gear category and is things like rope and hooks, poisons, etc.--that's just for heroes. And usually a henchmen who becomes a hero gains the ability to carry and use equipment.

Ghouls though? Nope.

Can't use weapons or armor, can't use equipment. Why? Because fuck you I guess.

This is one of those weird bits of vague rules that got addressed by the devs with the ever so wonderful "it says can NEVER carry any equipment" which. sucks! You can sort of get around it with a hero ghoul by getting the "wield any weapon" skill, as specifics > generic when it comes to rules, but not even being able to use a goddamn rope to climb shit feels awful and I think most people just houserule that away.

[jaunty dawn]

ooof

[past sphinx]

i had hoped cursed city was a revival of mordhiem

played a lot of frostfall

not frostfall

frostgrave

[pine matrix]

Very neat! I also enjoyed the Wolf Priest having a spell that might just turn him into a wolf permanently, but he can still gain experience as he's not technically an animal

I had a pretty good time with the mordheim video game when that came out, until I realised that every AI warband was randomly generated, so any permanent damage I did to them didn't matter

I can take the threat of injury of my roster as long as my opponents are also going to be held to the same standard

[pastel rampart]

There's a lot of jank to Mordheim, and while I love it despite all that there's definitely parts that need to be addressed for any group looking to do a campaign. Stuff like that, the disparity of power wrt dual weapons, armor being overcosted, slings being busted, etc.

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, the game honestly should've just allowed for a multiplayer campaign mode so you'd have just...y'know, a PC version of Mordheim.

[jaunty dawn]

I like the look of shadow elves a lot too

though I think Ive heard theyre a bit much

I just like their magic options haha

[uneven ember]

I think I read that they overcosted armor on purpose because they didn't much like it for the Vibe?
But that might've been some baseless speculation

[pastel rampart]

Speculation, but also GW just has never been good about writing rules and I think unless there's evidence otherwise, that's people justifying after the fact.

[pastel rampart]

Shadow Elves are routinely banned in most campaigns and tournaments because they cost as much as a basic human warband with way better stats.

[jaunty dawn]

shucks

[pastel rampart]

Well, okay their heroes are a little more expensive but still.

Of course, while they are incredibly broken, dwarfs are also incredibly broken but most players don't seem to mind that (gee I wonder why)

[jaunty dawn]

pff

[pastel rampart]

Honestly dwarves might be worse because they're just so goddamn difficult to take out of action.

[bright dove]

I think that may be because they're chillin below eye level. 😛

[uneven ember]

I mean also entirely possible.

[pastel rampart]

T4 baseline in a game where average strength is 3, and are immune to the special rules for hammers, and can only be taken Out of Action on a roll of 6 instead of 5-6.

[jaunty dawn]

in their defence it was before game design was invented

[pastel rampart]

Sure, their move is 3 and they can only have 12 people, but most warbands don't go above 12 anyway.

[jaunty dawn]

;P

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/K2FBC/6b24e69746.png

Also one of their heroes just encourages mass crossbow spam.

http://puu.sh/K2FBQ/9629c768b6.jpg

These skills are bullshit.

[naive abyss]

this fucking slayer died rats into his beard lol

thats both metal and so silly

[bright dove]

How else do you send a message to the Skaven?

[uneven ember]

Anything outside the base book was kinda
ehhh
balance wise imo

[pastel rampart]

Oh suuuuper bad balance, yeah.

And even the balance in the core book was whack.

[uneven ember]

tru

[pastel rampart]

Undead, as mentioned earlier, but Skaven could just fill the board with bodies using super cheap slings to spam rocks directly into people's faces.

[soft willow]

I have literally houseruled things for balance reasons every time I have played Mordheim since it came out.

[pastel rampart]

Most people do, yeah

[soft willow]

It’s also some of the most fun you can have in a campaign game if you do.

Not because it is a good game, but because it’s a fantastic narrative engine.

[pastel rampart]

Mercenary warbands have 3 choices, one of which is really good at leadership and shooting, the other is being rich and finding rare goods, and the last gives...strength 4 to heroes and that's it.

[soft willow]

Which isn’t bad but isn’t as good.

[pastel rampart]

And yeah Mordheim does amazing narrative but you have to me careful with what you allow and what hosuerules you're using, and making sure everyone is on board with it and not being a sweaty tryhard.

[soft willow]

Also warbear.

[pastel rampart]

There's some warbands that just need some minor adjustments to balance them out.

Like Carnival of Chaos is busted but it's busted because of Nurgle's Rot; remove that entirely and they're manageable.

http://puu.sh/K2FDA/1dfa6f2946.jpg

[uneven ember]

I played Undead back in the day and it really is "The Vampire (&co)"

[pastel rampart]

One dude gets infected and it can potentially infect the rest of the warband

[uneven ember]

A couple rushes from the Wolves, Dregs are just there to grab the Warpstone, zombies screen and tarpit

[pine matrix]

I've played one game of mordheim when I was a teenager as part of /tg/heim. I was playing Pirates, who I think have a somewhat dubious origin rules wise

As far as I remember, I took lots of guns and shot the shit out of a witch hunter warband

[pastel rampart]

Oh, pirates are "unofficial" but they were published in Town Cryer so they're like. quasi-official?

Reasonably fine as far as warbands go.

https://broheim.net/warbands.html They're Grade 1b, which is unofficial but considered professional quality so most people allow them.

[pine matrix]

Fair, that's probably why they were allowed!

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYwLhmQ1zKs&t=7s

[jaunty dawn]

gasp

the super s

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/K2G1T/5ec7c4ac6a.jpg

Mel: "oh you sexy bitch"

She's right for saying it tbh

[mental birch]

this is taking to my crisis brain

[thin ibex]

It feels like it's custom tailored for the crisis mind tbh, pretty good

I'm guessing it's gonna be mass fusion gun teams with the coldstar

Maybe with the plasma/ missile teams to supplement

[upper canopy]

https://twitter.com/DiceyJune/status/1573917130432843776

Dicey June - comm open (@DiceyJune) on X

The Fire Warrior

#DiceyJuneArt

Twitter · Sep 25, 2022, 6:07 AM

[jaunty dawn]

hes fire warrioring

[upper bluff]

Is that fanart of the PS2 game? That's the only reason I could imagine drawing such a badass fire warrior

[solemn gull]

I am in agreement non-space marines one handing a bolter is impossible unless you are THE FIRE WARRIOR

[pulsar cairn]

CAT

Space cats?!

[naive abyss]

ye gyrinx

[uneven ember]

Space Cats!
Necromunda Escher have multiple space cat units

[jaunty dawn]

is that lelith

frolicking

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/DiceyJune/status/1764740247144042536

[jaunty dawn]

rewarded by the power of chaos

[naive abyss]

tbh while this mockup is nice id probably juxt try to greenstuff nonsexual titties on

cuz bare chested ladies are kick ass

https://vxtwitter.com/Kirioth/status/1765331580136968483

i appreciate how shockingly subtle this joke by kirioth is until you look in the comments lol

[past sphinx]

okay am i going insane or has the shape of the chainsword slowly softened over time

[jaunty dawn]

your brain stops filling in the gaps as you realise how incoherent the image is

[floral herald]

I'm not sure what you mean by "softened"

[past sphinx]

idk rounder?

less square

[floral herald]

hmm I haven't really noticed that

[jaunty dawn]

oh chainswords in general

[pastel rampart]

https://twitter.com/DiceyJune/status/1765419717643403360

Dicey June - comm open (@DiceyJune) on X

@Kirioth @Hellstorm_Mikey The splash of bird poop is apt

Twitter · Mar 6, 2024, 4:50 PM

[naive abyss]

lol yeah

to be clear this is kirioth taking the piss

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/yDrqEO

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/YB0oBP

[topaz elk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Hb4bngxJ8

Thinking about Rylanor again

[past sphinx]

Wasn't stringstorm a groomer?

I feel like a lot of things happened in a short period of time

[naive abyss]

yeah it came out that he in the past was grooming

though he claimed he had begun to "improve and make amends tm"

[past sphinx]

He's really comin together

[jaunty dawn]

ohhh dope

[uneven ember]

nice!

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/1bcerfw/haphaestian_iron_walker/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[topaz elk]

Oh Jesus I didn’t know

I’ll delete the video if you want

[thin ibex]

Realized admech have hell of a lot of cac

Cav*

Easier to run almost fully cav armies than guard

Though I'm partial to the dunecrawler

[thin ibex]

I don't have a full plan with it, but I figure if I ran an admech crusade this us a test for it

[naive abyss]

https://www.gamesradar.com/big-comeback-of-fan-favorite-skaven-army-teased-for-warhammer-age-of-sigmar/

Apparently end teaser had rat chittering in the background too lol

Also the lightning flashes green multiple times lol

[jaunty dawn]

E

[naive abyss]

I'd assume that's stormcast Ngl

[naive abyss]

Boy yeah excited to finally be able to collect the rats

[thin ibex]

so the stormraven is a recent hallmark in comp play for SM?

which i would not have predicted

[jaunty dawn]

I think rats will mean I can trick my parent into playing AOS haha

oh shit really

what's it been doing

[thin ibex]

darkshroud covers the stormraven, letting it deliver a dread and the sternguard somewhere good, also ironstorm lets you threaten an auto explode with the stormraven, it looks like

[jaunty dawn]

wild

[still warren]

Biblically accurate stormcast coming

[desert jay]

Ironstorm is the IH-themed one with vehicle buffs, right?

[floral herald]

Yeah

[past sphinx]

Long shot, sanguinor

[thin ibex]

primaris lieutenant

[floral herald]

Is this the first rumor engine we’ve seen with visible paint?

[jaunty dawn]

I think they usually are painted

it's just they're grayscaled so it's not obvious

like the camo on this

or these bottle effects

or just the sheer value difference in the metallic trim vs the painted body

[floral herald]

Ok yeah not that rare

[thin ibex]

I very much enjoy a self contained stormraven task force

each little, self contained unit with their own support structure

air cover, the squad, and the close walker support

[jaunty dawn]

oooooh

[naive abyss]

That's a fun detail

[bright dove]

That is nice, ye

[thin ibex]

oh

thats perfect

for my custom sept

[ebon forge]

So anyway I think I got an warhammer 40k achievement in real ife.
I made a person get the same mood I was in and is going to buy a whole new army because of it

Where is my commission, GW

[quaint compass]

You'll get it with your next purchase :)

[ebon forge]

gasp
0.01% discount on my next purchase!
What a steal!

[quaint compass]

You get one (1) free monthly mini!

[ebon forge]

if it is the sassy nurgling, I am set for life

[bright dove]

It's the goose.

[quaint compass]

Then their family is set for life.

[ebon forge]

dang

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/MeU_317/status/1767032659254055358?t=wRwBBbTIDIrZc_w4pQYPWA&s=19

[topaz elk]

Centaur dreadnaught

[topaz elk]

I forgot about those

[ebon forge]

Stroika 1 ...

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUbLsgrtH0

The ork turn 2 is pretty great

ork boys with a boss effectively wipe a squad of outriders, a squad of infiltrators, and an invictor

[thin ibex]

a bit of a shame that the morkanaut goes down in a round, but it IS a big target

[pastel rampart]

James's beard sure is...something.

[past sphinx]

oh no the LAM's from battletech are infecting 40k

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE67MJOgL4I&t=11s

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBtCJNxab-M

[pastel rampart]

https://twitter.com/RossySculpts/status/1767679714473250975?t=m347PB_PFFl_EZnMn54ZaQ&s=19

Rossy Does Drawings-Commissions Open (@RossySculpts) on X

I drew a Tau from Warhammers because I like them.

Twitter · Mar 12, 2024, 10:31 PM

[naive abyss]

she cute

[modern tiger]

Are there any good resources on lists for kt out there?

[spice flicker]

So I never looked at the prices for other armies that much and I'm surprised at how much the average knight army costs to buy (from gw) compared to other factions. I compared how much a couple of my knights lists would cost compared to what my friend paid for a genestealer+baneblade army and was surprised.

Never really clicked until now

[soft willow]

Yeah Knights aren’t too bad all things considered when looking at full army costs.

[spice flicker]

Most of the lists I priced out were around $650-750 (using gw base individual prices) before taxes depending on what you get (not factoring in cerastus knights) meanwhile my friend said he paid about $1100 for his gsc+baneblade army.

[soft willow]

Some Admech lists can be 2k

[spice flicker]

Still find it funny that for nearly the same price you can either get good ol' porphy or 14 armigers/war dogs. One giant 700 point model or a 2000 point chaos knights "dog park" list (with extra war dog) for nearly the same price.

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/BitsHammer/status/1767757443000643956

[topaz elk]

Custodian Tau

Custodian Tau

[tired cairn]

Oh, that is pretty cool

[naive abyss]

ye

[tired cairn]

Too bad it isn't used for wargaming terrain yet 😦

[oak fog]

Has the one man army Kais entered the battlefield once more

[topaz elk]

So like, what are the differences between the operator marines? (I don’t remember the armor names, but those more lightly armored dudes)

Like they have 3 main basic troops, but I don’t get the point of the grapple one vs the normal melee one

[pastel rampart]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/13/chris-thursten-interview-getting-to-write-gunnar-brand-after-years-of-painting-darkoath/

[past sphinx]

ive wanted some heavy infantry for tau for years

some terminator esc, get in and stick in troops

but they would be so specific of a nieche filler for tau that they would probably be auto included

[desert jay]

Crisis suits are pretty TEQ, aren't they?

goes to check

Okay Crisis suits are basically faster, better armed, and more expensive than a basic marine Termie, while slightly less tough

[past sphinx]

in smaller squads and in absolutely MASSIVE models and bases

[junior robin]

and cant punch their way out of a wet paper bag

[floral herald]

Crisis Suits don't really have an easy comparison with space marines

I think their closest stat block is probably the attack bike or something

[pine matrix]

I was reading some TSons lore and now I'm wondering if I could paint up some of my heresy marines that way it helps especially that Ahriman is in plastic

But oh! Only recently I was mulling over making a world eater allies for for my Alphas!

Choices, choices...

[junior robin]

still thinking about looting a dreadknight for my space wolfs, biggest struggle is the fact they made it without leg articulation

[pine matrix]

What were you thinking of using it for? As a stand in for a unit or something that looks cool?

[pastel rampart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/ow5sda/how_do_you_pose_a_nemesis_dreadknight/ It's not too difficult to cut and repose.

[junior robin]

he will count as Logar Grimmnar on his chariot

[pastel rampart]

Granted you shouldn't have to do that, but it's a 10+ year old kit, so.

https://www.bitzstore.com/6256-large_default/legs-bitz-grey-knight-nemesis.jpg

[junior robin]

since they got the same base size

[pastel rampart]

I think the biggest issue is that you'll have to cut the power cord in the back there, as it simply won't stay put if you cut the knee area for a repose.

Luckily the feet are ball-jointed, that's one less thing to worry about.

[past sphinx]

Lotta hobby saw work

[pastel rampart]

https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/226502-re-posed-dreadknight/ Old post but there's something of a step-by-step guide further down.

Naturally, since photobucket is terrible the images have to be opened up in a new tab now.

[junior robin]

reading it made me realize that the pilot is attached to the legs, thought it was more just hanging from a harness, takes away the appeal a bit....

[junior robin]

hmm, 2 grand master knights and 3 dreadknights are 955pts

[thin ibex]

Late here but the Reivers are the grapple ones, their battlefield role is as terror troops that primarily operate behind enemy lines for extended periods. They're meant to sow confusion and terror by conducting raids and strikes against targets of opportunity.

Infiltrators I think are meant to be more traditional stealth/scout marines and also come with tools to improve their ability to operate independently.

Incursors, as far as I can tell, are like force recon/raiders

[topaz elk]

Thanks, the Phobos guys have always been kinda confusing to me

[thin ibex]

I did another wolfspear themed lists

[unreal cosmos]

Also, according to the (sometimes arbitrary) Codex classifications, Infiltrators are a Battleline unit while the other two are Close Support

[thin ibex]

Mostly in phobos

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/NG1newjStZE?si=ulPy7uAOez-YuAnE

[topaz elk]

Neat

[modern tiger]

Are there any resources on good lists for kt out there?

[floral herald]

There's not a ton since listbuilding isn't as important

I usually just ask on reddit

[modern tiger]

Ok

[upper canopy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/kroot/comments/1bds7d9/kroot_battle_report_armydatasheet_overview_enjoy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Kroot seem like they could be fun....

[pastel rampart]

https://x.com/RossySculpts/status/1767950857104920582?s=20

Rossy Does Drawings-Commissions Open (@RossySculpts) on X

Squig

Twitter · Mar 13, 2024, 4:28 PM

[thin ibex]

new kroot are very cool imo

very skirkmishy without being a mass "everyone gets stealth" situation

[junior robin]

if only the greater knarlocs where here to see it

also wondering when this spring the orks will arrive 🤔

really hope the death skulls inspired detatchment is more fun then 9th

[naive abyss]

random but i still love how much of a thingamajig the leaked skaven model is lol

[floral herald]

https://fxtwitter.com/jetblackraider/status/1768047915522818463?s=20

[uneven ember]

"IF YOU'RE SAYING I PLAY FAVORITES, I DON'T. I LOVE ALL MY CHILDREN EQUALLY"
earlier that day
"I DON'T CARE FOR LORGAR"

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8b3a5x

[brittle salmon]

hi warhammer thread here's a meme i made in 2 minutes, enjoy

[floral herald]

lool

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1766779915536326761

https://vxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1765413548711145972

direct links to art

[pastel rampart]

Gettin' an itch to make a KT-sized boad.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296289279482 I saw this listing and thought "yo that whips ass" and my brain went "you can make this you know"

"You know how to make molds and casting"

[runic swallow]

Those are 4x4 yeah?

[pastel rampart]

22"x30" actually

[runic swallow]

Huh

[pastel rampart]

It's a lot more compact and home-friendly, comparatively, since that size can fit on a hell of a lot more tables.

[runic swallow]

Yeah, now that I’m thinking of it why did I think 4x4 lol

[pastel rampart]

I think old KT used to be 4x4?

[runic swallow]

Since it’s pretty small by model count yeah?

Oh maybe that and playing Old Necromunda is the reason

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, necro was 4x4.

[runic swallow]

That’s probably it

[pastel rampart]

But yeah, kinda doodled some thoughts on it and it's entirely doable.

The hard part would be designing the squares to look suitably sci-fi/space hulk-y.

[runic swallow]

Is kill team meant to be entirely indoors or is that just the vibe you want

[pastel rampart]

Just the vibe. It'd be mostly for Space Station Zero, which uses the same table size, but I'm sure I could use it for KT or other smaller-scale skirmish games.

https://deathraydesigns.com/product-category/terrain/scifi/deadbolts-derelict/ I'd probably use these for walls and such, since they're fairly inexpensive compared to GW and also look suitably good n' grungy.

[naive abyss]

one day when i have the space i want to make myself a dwarf karak board

idk what id really use it for but i feel thatd be cool to do

[pastel rampart]

Inside or just the outside of the fortress? The latter is easier to do, at least conceptually.

[naive abyss]

inside

the extra crazy would be a both build

whichc would kick ass but be like a years long thing to do

especially with my lack of experience lol

https://vxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1763749243972448402

[pastel rampart]

Nah nah, extra crazy would be the outside, first floor, and then two or more floors underneath

[naive abyss]

gods

that would be kick ass

why must you curse me with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBT3gqxps4A&t=1s

[pastel rampart]

Because I too am cursed with terrain/table ideas I can't do.

[past sphinx]

i forever dream of the big trench table

[naive abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-memoji-gif-23490017

[past sphinx]

reading through Kingmaker, having a great time with knight world politics

ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND its a cover for chaos

they gotta stop letting people do that shit

and this is like the one fucking entity that could put independence to the blade with how knight worlds work (on paper atleast the reality of them being imperial dogs is beyond them)

[spice flicker]

Saw some of the tau leaks and they don't seem that good to me at least.

Only one of each drone with no duplicates. Also from what I glimpsed it seems longstrike is gone.

Also crisis suits are at most 3 man squads now

Also only sunforge (fusion blaster suits) have an invulnerable save now.

[jaunty dawn]

missile pod had indirect fire?

[spice flicker]

Yep

[jaunty dawn]

also fusion blaster got nerfed to 12" at the start of the edition

[spice flicker]

Iirc

[jaunty dawn]

I think you're thinking of smart missile system

missile pods have always been direct fire

[spice flicker]

Ah

My bad

[jaunty dawn]

shield generator lock is silly

[spice flicker]

Only 2 guns a model now though

Plasma lost 6 inches of range

[jaunty dawn]

locking the support systems to the weapon loadouts is much worse than just weapons having different abilities :T

also apparently regular crisis commander is gone

[spice flicker]

The fact the only one with the Shield generator is the one that can't shoot outside of charging range makes me worried. Also the long range specialist (rifle+missiles) is going to get shot off the board as soon as it gets in any crosshairs.

I haven't seen any points costs but if there isn't a significant points costs reduction then this is really gonna hurt imo.

[jaunty dawn]

I mean you can jump shoot jump in the crisis detachment at least

we won't see point costs till after the full release iirc

[spice flicker]

Yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1768129073501655177

Robert Evans (The Only Robert Evans) (@IwriteOK) on X

i am officially getting back into playing 40k after an almost 20 year absence and i am doing a Krieg cavalry based army. 30 rough riders (using death rider conversions) and maybe another 20 death riders. i don't care what's good this edition. none of you can stop me.

Twitter · Mar 14, 2024, 4:16 AM

[spice flicker]

Any info on broadsides and riptides?

I heard that Stealth suits are even better spotters now though so there is a bright side.

[naive abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-nod-yes-robert-redford-beard-gif-10489927

[jaunty dawn]

stealth suits just have the tetra rule now I think

granting re-rolls to the spotted unit

[spice flicker]

Starscythes (burst+flamer) have only AP0 weapons but inceease guns AP by 1 against non-vehicle and non-monster targets. They're the only ones who can shoot after falling back.

[modern tiger]

I feel like 10th has kinda just been a mess overall

(Is a burned admech player)

[spice flicker]

Strike teams and breacher teams can take duplicate drones (except guardian)

[jaunty dawn]

so can commander

[spice flicker]

Yep stealths grant rerolls of 1s to hit and wound to guided units

[jaunty dawn]

ah so not exactly the same as tetras but competetive with them

[spice flicker]

No invulns on broadsides but riptides still have them

[desert jay]

I suspect this in specific had to happen with the fact you can now take 3+3+3 units of crisis suit

[jaunty dawn]

I feel like a few ways of tau are gonna be more fun at the expense of no longer being able to play other ways basically

outside of legends

[spice flicker]

Think I'll stick to the sms on the broadsides to keep things at 30" range even if plasma rifles are deadlier.

Also I think I might pass on the crisis suits for now depending on the cost and focus on the bigger suits (broadside and riptides) but will have to see how points change.

[pastel rampart]

https://fxtwitter.com/ChumiiCham/status/1767843969059238386?t=4oymZnS31em0ZuMcyd1APA&s=19

[spice flicker]

Stormsurge still has invuln

How did the tidewall stay in yet longstrike was removed?

[jaunty dawn]

just realised the kroot lone-spear has an atlatl

cause the tidewall is plastic

pretty much

[spice flicker]

Ha

[jaunty dawn]

also only 3+1 detachments (kayuon, mont'ka, the previewed crisis one, the kroot one)

[spice flicker]

Didn't they originally promise 5 or 6 per army?

[thin ibex]

i think that only one group having the shield is fine, there are move shoot move stratagems for i think every detachment

that and also the crisis suits are rather tough as is, and it empowers the enforcer suit too

itd be kauyon, montka, retaliation cadre, and i forget the new kroot one name

im personally a fan of the 3 specific suit config datasheets, and dont really hate not having 3 guns per model

i think it curbs over-optimizing suits to ignore 90% of their options

i.e. only CIB and only shield gens exist most of hte time to most tau players rn

oh also penny, i think gw confirmed that any of the datasheets can dual wield a weapon on their sheet rather than fixed at one of each

montka detachment is probably going to be the competetive one again i think

with mass lethal hits and assault

though retaliation cadre kmight be tops as well with its focus on big crisis bombs

kauyon will probably take a backseat for more aggressive play

[desert jay]

Oh I didn't think of that

I didn't see CIB mentioned anywhere in the new stuff so now we got Tau players going from all CIBs to no CIBs

[thin ibex]

cibs look like they're headed to legends

[spice flicker]

I think only commanders can take CIB and only one per model

[thin ibex]

and yeah they might be back to the old set up of commanders only

which is a bit funny

makes my kit make sense again

[spice flicker]

I think I might lean more towards broadside/riptide spam as well as leaning on breacher+Devilfish and stealth teams. Wonder if anything changed with pathfinders since the leaks don't have them but darkstriker's sheet confirmed their survival.

[thin ibex]

personally i think crisis suits will still happily occupy their niche, especially the fusion blaster one, effectively being faster, deadlier eradicators

the anti horde one will likely go unpicked fairly often, unless its rule is good

riptide is currently, havent seen new rules mind, still kind of a tank and bully rather than something that you can rely on to do a lot of killing imo

[spice flicker]

No crisis no problem

No changes to riptide

Truly a problem free list due to having no crisis to worry about... I'll see myself out now.

[thin ibex]

lol

[spice flicker]

I've heard people say that the anti-horde can somehow get ap2

[thin ibex]

i admit im also a bit pleased to have the spotlight on crisis broken up a bit; i think they deserved it after being in the backseat for a long time, but its been long enough

do they get the increased AP against closest target as their rule?

cause that might combo with retaliation cadre

for 2 ap

[spice flicker]

They get AP1 against targets in shooting but not against vehicles or monsters

[thin ibex]

ok yeah that combos with retaliation cadre iirc

meaning they can pretty efficiently erase low save targets

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/s/be4xCtrxSH

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/s/QdU0VHmQgI

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/s/Bk8kGyTrEr

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/s/Pe2aishejz

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryWarhammer/s/HugP2DIsjX

[spice flicker]

Below is the pre-codex "no crisis no problem" list I jokingly made in less than 15 minutes:

Ethereal (warlord w/ through unity, devastation, 2x gun drones)
Cadre fireblade (exemplar of the kauyon, 2x gun drones)
Cadre fireblade (2x gun drones)

2x strike teams (guardian drone+marker drone)
2x breacher team (guardian drone+gun drone)

1x10 pathfinders (2x rail guns, recon drone, marker drone, gun drone)
2x6 Stealth suits (marker drone+gun drone)

2x2 broadsides (rail rifle, 2x missile drone, sms and wss each)
3x riptides (ion accelerator, sms, 2x missile drones)
1x ghostkeel (raker+burst cannons)

2x Devilfish (sms)
2000/2000 points

Might swap out ghostkeel for a hammerhead and use extra points for enhancements or something else.

Thoughts?

Might also split one six man team of stealth into 2x3

[jaunty dawn]

probably makes sense to

[naive abyss]

Random but Im very excited for the skaven refresh

Always been a fave of mine and it'll let me finally do it lizards vs rats homebrew lore in aos lol

[spice flicker]

Kepe the ghostkeel or swap for Hammerhead and have 30 points to spare?

[thin ibex]

im generally not a huuuuge fan of hte ion accelerator even if its better to ex out elites

cause it interacts a bit worse with the nova reactor rule

the ghostkeel is a nice harrasment unit, if you felt you needed more anti armor firepower, a hammerhead doesnt hurt

[spice flicker]

I've got 3 in the list so maybe swap one out for the other? The riptides are the heaviest hitting thing in the list it feels which is why I'm hesitant to lose the ion and lose damage potential I think.

Lone op and stealth on the Ghostkeel is nice since I can use it as a spotter sometimes.

But the rail gun is also nice and gives good high S attacks.

Ultimately unsure and undecided

[thin ibex]

well, tbh, the broadsides are your heavy punchers over your riptides, the riptides are more mobile firepower imo

[spice flicker]

True

kinda forgot them tbh

If I removed the enhancement from the Ethereal I could trade the ghostkeel for another pair of broadsides...

[thin ibex]

Gives you more coverage, but I think 2 pairs is generally gonna be sufficient to sink high priority targets

And the ethereal with the trait maybe helps the riptides punch up

[spice flicker]

The Ethereal was going to stick with one of the strike squads while the Cadre go with the breachers. The 2nd strike squad would camp the deployment zone objective.

Honestly most of the infantry (minus breachers) and the Devilfish (once breachers are dropped off) will be used as spotters for the suits.

[quaint compass]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1174455607655420007/1217859852122980453/20240314_162746.jpg?ex=66058f5f&is=65f31a5f&hm=35f55d96e18acd8bbe10686156ea90e1b8513d8116563b940c83a4d8fb27516d&

Kitbashed meself some Eightbound

As their regular models don't look freaky enough

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1174455607655420007/1217859850755899422/20240314_162710.jpg?ex=66058f5f&is=65f31a5f&hm=4c70ea1ed919d57f19a537cba1fa45c8b96587e4cbfa8bbd640e3202e411bb68&

[pine matrix]

Hell yeah! Where is the torso from?

[valid brook]

damn this mf Angery

[quaint compass]

It's the eightbound but without the armor

Switched the heads out and schlapped on the extra arms for a trio of beautiful exalted babies

[thin ibex]

Eight unbound

[spice flicker]

New WFRPG bundle on humble bundle:

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-enemy-within-more-cubicle7-books?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1_c_warhammerfantasyroleplayenemywithinmorecubicle7_bookbundle

[naive abyss]

Oooo

[spice flicker]

Why can't humble bundle make their links smaller?

Core rules and enemy within stuff by thr looks of it

4th edtion

[naive abyss]

And some location supplements

Ngl it's tempting if only to get that whole adventure finally

[spice flicker]

I got the bundle from last year that also included soulbound and W/G stuff so idk if this would be worth it or is it?

Should I?

[proud wing]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-enemy-within-more-cubicle7-books

for pretty much any link besides YouTube, you can just ignore anything after a question mark

[spice flicker]

Thanks

Brother is the tech expert, I am just the former salesman.

[naive abyss]

I mean neither of those are whfrp lol

Which is what this bundle has

[spice flicker]

The previous bundle had core books for all three: WFRPG, Soulbound, and Wrath & Glory.

[naive abyss]

Gotcha

Well it comes with all the volumes of arguably the systems best adventure path

And two full city supplements

[thin ibex]

oh, you can often kill the text after a ? in a question mark to reduce link size. The rest is like meta data on your path to get there

[spice flicker]

I see

[thin ibex]

hmm, how is whfrp unde? Like what would i compare it to as someone with fairly limitd ttrpg experience (think almost just Dnd 4e, 5e, pathfinder, starfinder, lancer, and cyberpunk)

[spice flicker]

It's a d100 based system iirc

[uneven ember]

So, it's very "traditional" in design, aside from a short-lived (and fairly poorly-received) 3rd Edition its mostly the same as the 1986 version.
It is, as Not Wallace says, percentile based so your skills and stats are always your base chance of succeeding at something, which you can try to modify; so it's fairly straightforward and transparent there.

Characters tend to be lower-powered (although this is sometimes overstated in The Memes, where the archetypical WFRP PC is a ratcatcher with Small But Vicious Dog in their starting equipment) compared to a lot of those examples. Progression is a pretty fun kind of balance between class and freeform, where your Career gives you some direction in advancement but gives room for taking other abilities and skills, and as you get more XP you can choose other career options for advancement.

[bright dove]

Hey, the Ratcatcher is doing one of the most dangerous jobs in WHFRP

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/Ash_Lowe4/status/1768233220154204532

[solemn gull]

Did Small yet Vicious dog come from WHFRP?

It gets referenced so much in other rpgs I play

[naive abyss]

It's comparable to cyberpunk in a variety of ways tbh

[solemn gull]

Chunky salsa included

[naive abyss]

Both are d100 and you're playing like scrungos

[solemn gull]

We lost two players to a hand grenade in our carriage

It was a PCs hand grenade

[uneven ember]

It does! Part of the Ratcatcher career starting loadout.

[solemn gull]

lol cool it’s def something other writers reference often like the 10 ft pole

[junior summit]

watching broken spear and these knights are a lot more manually controlled than they're supposed to be

good mechwarrior vibes tho

[spice flicker]

Besides Being a ratcatcher, in 4th edition you can also choose to be a:
Alchemist
Artillerist
Astromancer
Apothecary
Druid
Cartographer
Cult Magus of Tzeentch
Engineer
Hierophant
Lawyer
Magister Vigilant
Mundane Alchemist
Nun
Physician
Priest
Priest of Handrich
Priest of Solkan
Pyromancer
Scholar
Shadowmancer
Shaman Career
Spiriter Career
Ogre Butcher
Wizard
Agitator
Artisan
Beadle
Beggar
Investigator
Merchant
Rat Catcher
Townsman
Watchman
Advisor
Artist
Duellist
Envoy
Scryer
Noble
Servant
Spy
Warden
Bailiff
Hedge Witch
Herbalist
Hunter
Miner
Mystic
Rhinox Herder
Scout
Villager
Bounty Hunter
Camp Follower
Coachman
Entertainer
Fieldwarden
Flagellant
Ghost Strider
Karak Ranger
Messenger
Pedlar
Road Warden
Witch Hunter
Wolf Kin
Boatman
Huffer
Riverwarden
Riverwoman
Seaman
Smuggler
Stevedore
Wrecker
Bard
Charlatan
Fence
Grave Robber
Outlaw
Racketeer
Thief
Witch
Archer
Badger Rider
Cavalryman
Freelance
Greatsword
Guard
Halberdier
Handgunner
Knight
Knight of the Blazing Sun
Knight of the White Wolf
Knight Panther
Light Cavalryman
Pikeman
Pit Fighter
Protagonist
Ogre Maneater
Siege Specialist
Slayer
Soldier
Warrior Priest
Warrior Priest of Myrmidia

[solemn gull]

I do like the class system of the 40k rpgs

[uneven ember]

okay yeah wow
Are all those starting careers, or does that include advances? At least some off those feel like things that, at least back in 1st, would've been reserved for later game

[spice flicker]

I think most are starting while a few might be advanced but not sure.

Plenty of options regardless

Kinda tempted to plan out an end times wfrpg campaign now...

What's in that bundle though is one of the better long term warhammer rpg campaigns from what I have heard.

At $25 for what's included I think it would be worth it if wfrpg ever interested you.

[naive abyss]

It's also super easy to modify chargen to allow higher powered groups

Like as simple as let players choose their race/class and keep the xp bonuses

[spice flicker]

Have a party of a greatsword, archer, witch Hunter, pyromancer, and dwarf with some job and do a campaign where the skaven are the main foes...

[proud wing]

i'm not quite sure if i'd classify necrons as endless fodder

there is a limited number of them, they just teleport away and regenerate when they fall in battle

[spice flicker]

That's nagash not the silent king

So endless fodder refers to undead

[proud wing]

oh yeah

though szarekh is probably the 40k character with the best chance of stopping chaos

there was that one video game where in the necron ending he just straight-up closed the eye of terror

[solemn gull]

Hey wait a second I know this one

[spice flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/back-to-the-future-hey-hey-ive-seen-this-one-what-do-you-mean-youve-seen-this-its-brand-new-gif-17294476

[solemn gull]

how is 4e compared to 2 e?

[floral herald]

Most of those are advanced

[naive abyss]

It's more or less a cleaned up version of 2e in allot of ways

[naive abyss]

Also nagash manages to be the better communicator

Somehow

[uneven ember]

So I don't actually have 4th, grain of salt.
It just amuses me to lay this out: the 1st edition ran from 1986 to 2005, 2nd was more or less an update of 1st and ran from '05 to '09, 3rd was a very different rules system (tokens, special dice) from '09 to '17, and 4th has run from '18 to now & was presented as a return to 1 & 2

[uneven ember]

& yeah WFRP works similarly.
Honestly that was a point of contention when Dark Heresy 1st came out, people were expecting to play top-tier Agents of the Inquisition like the casts in Eisenhorn & Ravener but the rules were for random Imperial citizens who'd gotten press-ganged into working at the lower level of the Inquisition.
Rules for actually playing the =][= posse were later and, IME, were pretty clearly not what the system was for.

[solemn gull]

nah I like the low power level

[spice flicker]

Low power does seem to fit with wfrpg

[solemn gull]

no?

I think it works pretty well

[long void]

I don't know why, but I always imagine Nagash with a Skeletor voice.

[spice flicker]

Didn't say it was a bad thing

[solemn gull]

yeah but I mean you're broke nobodies

seems like how the game is meant to be played

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah, I've had some great fun with it.
Just that I get some of the frustration when the devs cite Eisenhorn as the clear inspiration but then come out with "but like, you don't get to play the Eisenhorn cast. You might get to meet them if you're really really good."

[solemn gull]

Well I mean there are splats for when you reach that xp level. I just like that they give you the option to see and explore the setting at that degree of unimportance away from all the battlefields and apocalyptic events

[quaint compass]

A lot of the advancement in WHFBRPG are material in nature, since you need the trappings of the career to enter into it. So, to become a knight, you will need a stupid amount of money, or loot the right stuff from enemies, dead allies, dead strangers, living strangers, living allies, random passersby's, tombs, castles, banks, merchants, scribes, messengers, witches, wizards, sorcerers, prophets, holymen (prime source of holy relics should you need 'em).
Incentivizes adventure by making you start either dirt poor, or not rich enough.

[naive abyss]

I mean it's meant to do various levels

Hell the most famous adventure it has us you saving the empire more or less by the end

Whfrp that is

[tardy wren]

So, if I wanted to run a RP where everyone was Tau battlesuit pilots, what would people reccomend? I don't think Lancer would be super great for catching the feel of Tau mechs, but I'm not sure what would.

[mental birch]

Instantly interested

hehehehe

[tardy wren]

I mean I'm down to run it for you if I ever get time, but I need a system

[jaunty dawn]

only war has rules for it iirc

idk if they're good rules

[tardy wren]

For... piloting battlesuits?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

there's like

a tau book for it I think?

I might be misremembering

oh wait it was for rogue trader

[tardy wren]

yeah it was for rogue trader

[solemn gull]

I’m sure there is a homebrew for tau and tau mechs in only war

But even if there isn’t one for tau no reason you can’t reskin the normal characters as tau

[tardy wren]

I mostly wanna make it battlesuit focused

[solemn gull]

There are rules for stuff like scout walkers and such

It can def be supported

It’s weird how little the tau are portrayed in the rpgs

[naive abyss]

wang might work

though i dont think theyve done any tau stuff yet for it

[solemn gull]

They haven’t also the vehicle system is kind of weird there

But I think a Tau focused campaign could be pretty good for getting people into the setting since they are still pretty heroic

[naive abyss]

honestly i think the kin might now be the best on ramp in that sense these days

like ill fully grant im biased

but like since theyre new they also have less like at the gate shit to know lol

and like deal reasonably with almost everyone

[solemn gull]

True I just think the angle of “we’re fighting to end tyranny and for the greater good” is a pretty straightforward motive to give players

[naive abyss]

i mean the end tyranny bit isnt really in there thats just sorta an assumption on the intent of "for the greater good"

cuz like ultimately they would be working/fighting as soldies that have been idelogically brain washed to an imperialistic manifest destiny militant society lol

like a tau wont just show up somewhere to trade with folks and not proselytize

but wtih kin they sorta run a whole gamut of motivations that are pretty normal and mostly always are willing to talk

like you can have hyper expansionist strong heads or pragmatic freelance mercs

etc

especially right now with how many gaps in lore they have

gives allot of free space for players to explore

also like you more or less can tldr the kin as space dorfs

that just happen to be like tube produced pseudo clones

[solemn gull]

Makes sense

[naive abyss]

while with tau theres not a super easy analog that most anyone playing a ttrpg is gonna necessarily know

[upper canopy]

Wrath and glory with the abundance of apocrypha homebrew

Has every mechanic you might need

The suits are played their as highly customizable suits of armor

[thin ibex]

Honestly Lancer might not be terrible, but there'd be a lot of adapting and adjusting

[upper canopy]

It'd be like

Serviceable but not great

[thin ibex]

What were the other big mecha ttrpg?

[upper canopy]

I'd just go with wng

[thin ibex]

Beam Saber and one other that I forget the name

[tardy wren]

uhhhh

[thin ibex]

Could also use starfinder mechs xD

[tardy wren]

The MEcha Hack, maybe?

[thin ibex]

But I'd probably not do that one

[tardy wren]

There's also

shudders

Adeptus Evangelion has mech rules.

[thin ibex]

Then again I think pinning down the vibe you want is a good idea

[tardy wren]

Individual body parts having their own HP

[thin ibex]

Cause the heroes mantle can be a frenetic armored core style situation

[tardy wren]

etc

[thin ibex]

Or it could be a bit more strategic and war like

[tardy wren]

I mean

mech vs mech combat isn't that common

it's mostly mech vs heavy infantry or infantry

and sometimes monsters

[thin ibex]

Or armor yeah

[tardy wren]

you're usually punching up or down

[upper canopy]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7jo5frqlw4lp8qs/AABf-HvAYSaKEeUnVWV0GID-a?dl=0&preview=Wrath+%26+Glory+-+An+Abundance+of+Apocrypha+v9.pdf

[tardy wren]

Never equal

[upper canopy]

But yes here you go

[thin ibex]

The crisis is really meant to be a take all comers platform

Loadouts are either role specific or generalist in the lore

[upper canopy]

https://www.doctors-of-doom.com/vault/an-abundance-of-apocrypha

Wrath and Glory I can swear by being very fun

[thin ibex]

(I do wish there was a generalist set up in the new dex, with like either mixed loadouts and a bonus to split fire or each member having their own loadout)

[upper canopy]

If you start as some tier 3 battlesuits you're players are going to feel like gods pretty quick

@floral herald ran a marine game in it and it was a blast

[thin ibex]

I really wanna get a Wang game going for my irl party

They want to be space marines for sure

But I've not buckled down and started building anything

Dunno if any of the pre-written adventures are suitable

[tardy wren]

I don't really know how WANG plays.

It looks like there are Tau Battlesuit rules, at least.

[upper canopy]

I'd go more into it but I really gotta fuckin sleep

Tagging cyan in to do so

[floral herald]

I’m late but the vehicle rules in only war are… not great they’re ok but particularly for larger vehicles feel very stilted

I’m also going to sleep soon but yeah I agree - WanG covers this best

There’s some official Tau stuff and a lot of quality homebrew which I think covers them

[upper canopy]

Wrath and glory is the only warhammer rpg that successfully let's you do a power fantasy with little to no caveats

You can just be competent dudes

[floral herald]

Yeah even at low tiers PCs are pretty capable in combat and generally capable

I think it’d handle professional feeling battlesuit pilots quite well

[thin ibex]

I want to do death watch for my players

But they'd all be knew to the system and some would be new to the setting

So scouts seem best

It's not a huge issue to say they're deathwatch scouts and promote them to full marines later is it?

Does that even happen in normal deathwatch? I presume they pick up veterans

[floral herald]

Deathwatch only recruits veterans yeah

Though they may use scout like gear depending on the mission

[thin ibex]

Maybe veteran scouts would be the contrivance?

Also incidentally, it's a bit funny that if they recruit a space wolf scout they're getting an elite veteran rather than a greenhorn

Mmm maybe it'd just be easier to be a single chapter

But then then can't rp being from their preferred chapters

[floral herald]

I don’t think that’s necessarily a problem

[thin ibex]

Which?

[tardy wren]

What's WANG's core mechanic?

[thin ibex]

The eponymous Wrath tokens and Glory... stuff? I think?

[upper canopy]

Stats and skills equal a dice pool of d6s

With every dice roll having a Wrath die with it

If you roll a 6 on the wrath die its a critical and if you roll a 1 it's a complication

Wrath is a personal resource you have for abilities and rerolls

And glory is a team resource everyone accrues and can use

I can't remember if 4 up is a success or 5 up

[floral herald]

Them all being from the same chapter

Since it also means they can have deeper bonds

[thin ibex]

Hmm that's true

[floral herald]

4+ iirc

[thin ibex]

I guess it'd just be a discussing on session 0 to be like, "Let's make up a chapter or pick one"

Cause we're definitely gonna fumble rules n stuff early on

Oh are there any good gm cheat sheets floating around for wang?

[upper canopy]

Prolly

[thin ibex]

Where do you usual dig for your Wang resources? Or just some Google fu

[upper canopy]

I'm in bed

Guggle it

[thin ibex]

👍 me too, I'll do it in the morning probably

[naive abyss]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/14/the-warhammer-community-team-paints-the-contents-of-the-kroot-hunting-pack/

the warpaint is a great touch ngl

[molten mica]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-enemy-within-more-cubicle7-books?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_4_layout_index_3_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1_c_warhammerfantasyroleplayenemywithinmorecubicle7_bookbundle

did anyone ever play this one? how is it?

[spice flicker]

I got it

[ebon forge]

reminds me when my mom non-challantly told my middle brother who her favorite child was, because he asked, like it was no big deal

[spice flicker]

Hmmm... Imperial or chaos knights for a narrative crusade?

[soft willow]

Imperial.

They have better narrative goofy shit with the idea of knightly quests.

Whereas CK are just kinda boogie men a lot.

Then again 10th hasn't provided actual crusade rules for either, so feel free to do whatever.

[spice flicker]

Yeah that's what I've found disappointing about current crusade rules. No support for walkers

[soft willow]

Paraiah Nexus really doesn't have much, at least Tyrannic War you could stomp around with the fun monster/walker rules.

[spice flicker]

List A:
Knight Abominant
2x karnivores
1x huntsman
1x brigand
1000/1000

List B:
2x stalkers
2x brigands
2x karnivores
2x nurgling (honest don't really like nurgle but 80 left over points) (might swap nurglings and stalkers for lone rampager)
1000/1000

List C:
Knight errant
1x Helverin
3x warglaives
995/1000

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3u-sNmQfvE&t=2s

[desert jay]

Surprised at only 4 detachments

But they seem like decent ones and not like eg. crusher swarm

[spice flicker]

Didn't they say at the start of 10th that each faction would have like 5 or 6?

[desert jay]

I don't recall them ever promising an exact number but might've

[thin ibex]

montka gonna help broadsides reposition nicely i think

sad to see aunva, aun shi, and longstrike gone, but also i can easily see why aunshi and aun va were gone

[spice flicker]

I wonder how the points will end up. Will "no crisis no problem" actually have a chance?

[ebon forge]

I heard Crisis got weaker but retained their points

[spice flicker]

What about the other suits like ghostkeel, riptide, and broadside?

[thin ibex]

tbf you could already field effective lists with no crisis

one of the meta lists was a triple hammerhead build

but in any event, the crisis got "weaker" because they lost mix n match weaponry, so no more 3 CIB per crisis

also fewer weapons per suit

generally 2 per suit, and 3 specialized datasheets

tailored for anti infantry, anti elite, and anti armor/monster

im personally pleased at the crisis changes tbh

[spice flicker]

RIP 18 flamer (plus shield generator and double shield drones) crisis bricks.

[ebon forge]

ok but
The crisis are sick and cool

[thin ibex]

they are, and they're not less cool now, just less pigeonholed into a mono build because meta

[ebon forge]

frikking meta

They destroyed TF2 heavy and now the T'au /j

[thin ibex]

lol

ive just been tired of "you can only take all CIB on every crisis, and you have to take a shield generator on every crisis. Otherwise you're compromising capabilities"

now there are purpose driven loadouts

which to me call out tau lore about crisis team configurations

which i liked already

[spice flicker]

With them cutting down on the customization of the crisis suits I wonder if they make any changes to the knight despoiler? For those who don't know the despoiler can customize it loadout as a combo of any of the questoris weapons (ranged and melee except the giant Las gun) and can take duplicates of the same gun (double gatling cannon or double thermal cannon for example.)

[thin ibex]

its possible they may refine the intended role, but iirc its meant to be a stand in for a lot of the questoris patterns right?

[spice flicker]

It's the CK equivalent to the Warden (gatling), errant (thermal cannon), paladin (rapid fire battle cannon), and crusader (two separate guns) but all mixed into one that can replicate or combine any of the above.

[thin ibex]

big under the radar change to sky rays for tau, their missiles got twin linked; and stealth suits give rr 1's to hit and wound while spotting

I think for knights, they have a fairly limited selection, but i could see them refining the datasheet into more than 1 with their own special rules. Hard to say tho

[spice flicker]

Rampager = Gallant
Desecrator = Preceptor
Despoiler = warden, paladin, errant, crusader
Tyrant = castellan and Valiant
War dog executioner = helverin
War dog huntsman = War glaive
Cerastus knights are identical
Abominant = nothing
War dog brigands = nothing
War dogs karnivores = nothing
War dog stalker = nothing
War dog Moirax are identical

If the ck get more variants then it might be an issue since IK hasn't gotten a "new" knight in a long while.

IK has nothing that CK doesn't have and equivalent of while CK has a unique questoris (abominant) and three unique armiger equivalents.

[jaunty dawn]

ik has canis rex and the knight preceptor

[desert jay]

Preceptor and Desecrator aren't really equivalent

[jaunty dawn]

stuff like devastator equivalents don't get hit by the kit policy

havocs/retributors

so really there is no 100% rhyme or reason you can follow lol

and crisis suits aren't really like. anything new I guess. despoilers are just as at risk as they were before this

[desert jay]

But yeah Preceptor is like the one unique IK (and Canis is a epic hero Preceptor)

[jaunty dawn]

and to be clear even the new crisis loadouts support options you can't build from the kit; anything dual weapon technically requires two kits to load out

cause you only get 3 of each weapon

[spice flicker]

True canis Rex is unique in IK but yeah no if you look at the loadouts Desecrator is the CK preceptor.

[jaunty dawn]

the las impulsor and las destructor are different weapons lol

[desert jay]

Yeah

Preceptor vs Desecrator

[jaunty dawn]

and the desecrator can't take a multilaser

I guess they do have similar roles actually if the desecrator is armiger support

but the preceptor emphasises it a lot more

and they're not the exact same knight like the other options are

[desert jay]

Whereas the Despoiler, Rampager, Hunstman, Executioner weapons are just renamed with the same stats except I think Despoiler has improved BS

[jaunty dawn]

oh they removed the preceptors whole deal

so they're even less equivalent than they used to be

weird

[desert jay]

Yeah Preceptor's mentor ability in 9e got folded into Bondsman stuff for 10e

[spice flicker]

Assuming points don't change for them, is it better to have a third riptide or a third devilfish+breacher squad. Each option is 165 points.

[thin ibex]

depends on your detachment and needs

you get more board control with the devilfish/breacher combo, but the riptide is thiccc

both are good at taking on/clearing elite infantry, but the breachers are better at actually taking an objective

[spice flicker]

I was thinking about that earlier "no crisis (suits) no problem" list from yesterday.

[thin ibex]

yeaah, and its a little bit of a "what's your match up" as far as which is better

i think 3 riptides are a bit fun, they're limited in terms of firepower

but they'll be a fairbit tankier than a breacher team

if you're in kauyon, you might get better returns from the riptide

if you're in montka breachers may pay more dividends with mass lethal hits

[naive abyss]

Imo it's probably the best still supported warhammer rpg

But I'm biased

[spice flicker]

Kinda want to play soulbound as I've never tried it but heard it's good

[pastel rampart]

I've heard some good things about Soulbound.

[naive abyss]

The others are all more or less good too yeah

[pastel rampart]

There isn't really a bad Warhamms RPG, just some of them are more jank than others.

[naive abyss]

This also obviously varies with what setting you like most and what kinda game vibe you like

[naive abyss]

Tbh I'm inclined to say some of the old ffg ones are flirting with being bad

[pastel rampart]

Yeah. FFG balance for the 40k ones was ah...more a funny idea than a thing they'd bother with.

[naive abyss]

Lol

Like those books had great fluff and art

But rules wise at least for me they were very much not it

Uhh I just hope wang gets lov official rules eventually

And maledictum adds rules for squats and the like lol

[floral herald]

A lot of DH1E was Black Industries not FFG, though its kind of blurry how much that matters

[pastel rampart]

It's a distinction, but a minor one given BI stopped existing the moment the first book came out.

[floral herald]

Was it that early? I thought some of the first supplements were also then

But the internet is a poor record of this haha

[pastel rampart]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Industries It was that early, yeah

Which is. pretty fucked!

[floral herald]

Ah ok, though it looks like Inquisitor's Handbook might have been BI

[spice flicker]

Honestly with soulbound I'd love to play a knight of Shrouds or guardian of Souls.

If it wasn't for cairn wraiths being murderhobos (which I never am) I wouldn't mind giving them a try either.

[naive abyss]

I still really wanna do an all gloomspite thing in it

[spice flicker]

Looking at this list I have here of all the archetype options I think you could easily do that or a mix of anything else non-chaos.

[floral herald]

Gods perfect model

[thin ibex]

Tried to do a bit of a vibes list

I know the Eradicator is bad

[sour sequoia]

Fellas I am so close

Soon I can do this all over again with the monolith

[pine matrix]

Looking great!!

[naive abyss]

The marine favoritism issue I don't think is ever gonna be better summed up than in this image lol

[past sphinx]

hey two more seasons of kill team and we might get new ones!

id give a left arm for new fire dragons

i love the old dragons, espically the long barreled one

the monkeys paw of new kroot models

[spice flicker]

I present "Armored Khorne"

2000/2000 points

Kharn the swell fellow
Lord Invocatus
Master of Executions

1x10 Jackals (icon of khorne)
3x10 berserkers (2x eviserators, 3x plasma pistols)

1x6 eightbound

2x maulerfiend
1x land raider
2x rhinos

Kharn and friends go in the land raider while MoE and his pals go into one rhino with remaining zerkers in the other. Lord avocado is with the eightbound and everyone but Jackals charge towards the enemy with reckless abandon.

Everything, except the Jackals and avocado's eightbound, that can fit in a transport is in one and are taking those taxis to the enemy to spread the good word of khorne in a chorus of whirling chainblades.

[bright dove]

KHARN KHARN KHARN

He's going to kill so many people in that Land Raider

[spice flicker]

They're not called party buses for nothing

[uneven ember]

ain't no party like a Kharn party 'cause a Kharn party makes no distinction between friend and foe

[thin ibex]

The land raider is a permanent mosh pit

[spice flicker]

As warlord of the army, Kharn gets the big party bus privileges while Moe has to settle for one the party taxi instead.

but what do you think of the list?

[thin ibex]

I think the transports protect them from getting shot up early, and they're faster than the zerkers. Downside is the zerkers you have need to be able to preform

[bright dove]

Berserkers are just gonna need to do their job and cut things apart.

The problem might be monsters and other vehicles.

[spice flicker]

Too bad world Eaters don't have drop pods but yeah the issue with monsters and vehicles is also why I have a pair of maulerfiends and pray that the LR's lascannons can help.

[thin ibex]

Lrs lascannons definitely help for sure

I personally like land Raiders on the gk for the same reason, even if librarians are the prescribed anti tank

[past sphinx]

does kharn still kill people hes in a transport with?

[thin ibex]

Not actually no

I don't think there's any way to kill units still inside a living transport

[spice flicker]

If kharn isn't in engagement he does still kill a bodyguard unit if a leadership test is failed.

[thin ibex]

Does the unit really get smaller even when inside the land raider?

Seems odd

As far as I understand, because neither he nor his unit are on the board, they don't trigger those rules

Actually I don't see that rule on his datasheet, does he still do that?

Ah there it is

[past sphinx]

shame it was very funny

[thin ibex]

Found it

Still exists

My go at a heavily armored WE list

Without Angron anyway

Though he's often an auto take

[past sphinx]

he IS the beatstick after all

[thin ibex]

Absolutely a comet that hits like a truck, big ass target though

[past sphinx]

just play on tables with very tall terrain 😉

does angron have the fly keyword?

[thin ibex]

Yeah he does

Unleash the Hydras at him

Anti fly is surprisingly relevant at the table

[past sphinx]

that is remarkably funny

[past sphinx]

Czarn is gonna be a real fucking bastard to comvert

I've never done a chaos corrupted machine

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1768630421569364446

[thin ibex]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4cxWDAukYF/?igsh=MTJrdzlnZ2FhdDRhaw==

miniwargamer_dave

This is the world’s largest collection of Orks! Owned and created by @geargutsmekshop. I wanted to battle against it with my entire Chaos Space Marine army. But doing an apocalypse battle of this size would require lots of help. So I enlisted some wargamers to set up the biggest game anyone has ever seen.

Things moved much quicker until I reali...

Likes

7386

Instagram

[past sphinx]

Man I wan to like the ravaged star stuff but it's so incredibly busy

[naive abyss]

Mood

[spice flicker]

Imagine a soulsborne style game in AoS. What would be on your wishlist for things in that game?

I know a boss fight against a Lord of Change and maybe a mortarch would be cool.

[bright dove]

Cygor

[pastel rampart]

Chaos dragon

https://tenor.com/view/dragonlord-placidusax-dragon-lord-elden-ring-elden-ring-dragon-dragonlord-placidusax-laser-beam-gif-25500805

Shit would be exactly like this.

[unreal cosmos]

Yeaahhh I think a lot of third-party models overlook GW's big strength, which is readability

[pastel rampart]

Even GW forgets that sometimes.

The plastic bloodthirster is a big model with some real shit silhouette going on, as does Archaeon's giant-ass model. Deathwing terminators had a bunch of little things glued all over them which not only made painting them a pain in the ass, but made your eyes kind glaze over and not know where the focal point is.

[runic swallow]

I mean I always was able to go “oh, terminator monks” with Deathwing

[jaunty dawn]

awesome

[junior robin]

dat angry knee 👀

[naive abyss]

most notably at the start of aos and some chaos stuff here and there imo

like a big part of why ive come around on stormcast is gw realized the first designs were so fucking busy lol

that and they made them explicitly coed

on another note anyone here play battlesector the video game at all?

is it worth playing like non multiplayer? cuz i dig the basic gameloop and it looks nice visually lol

[floral herald]

That happens to a lot of successor models I think

[naive abyss]

somewhat related. i kinda want the bloodthirster to get a new model

its always felt like the weakest to me of the great daemon models we have atm in terms of design

[bright dove]

I mean, I don't think a new model will help in that regard. Unfortunately for ole Bloodthirster, he's just a generic demon in terms of design.

[naive abyss]

well i like khorne visuals

like the bloodlettesr may be my fave in terms of lesser daemon visually

and angron imo is the best looking daemon primarch model atm

i think its mostly i really dont like the head or pose of this build option for it

this ones pretty good though ill say

also the whip like ending in a eight pointed star kicks ass ngl

[junior robin]

cant unsee the second one doing a impish dance.

[naive abyss]

i think it might be i sorta hate the mid flight build options for the model

[junior robin]

I would probably transplant the wings onto skarbrand if I was to get a bloodthirster.

[naive abyss]

ngl i am very intot his one being like a chaosified balor lol

like im super into the whip with the chaos star at the end of it

[floral herald]

I think it’s supposed to be landing but I can’t unsee it enough that I’m not longer sure

[bright dove]

Bloodthirster doing a happy tip-tappy because there's people to decapitate.

[junior robin]

I did do a cool raven themed greater possessed for my world eater army that are no longer viable in 10th, but If it was would I be really tempted to try and convert a lord of change

though not sure how a greater daemon would fit in thematically for a world eater army stuck in a underhive on armageddon.

[floral herald]

Tbf a greater daemon is a pretty natural choice for a stuck or isolated chaos force

Since it doesn’t need “normal” supply lines just glorious sacrifice

[junior robin]

me when I get sent to investigate a illegal servo-skull operation after people are found decapitated in the hive only to see they used them to build a really big chair :

[junior robin]

really wish world eaters had at least got chosen as a option, then I could run my LC termies as eightbound and more or less use my old army.

[upper canopy]

https://www.goonhammer.com/codex-tau-empire-10th-edition-the-goonhammer-review/

[junior robin]

longstrike 😭

[jaunty dawn]

taken out by green kroot snipers

shame though. xv02 is neat

[south axle]

What is MFM from that article?

[jaunty dawn]

points document

[naive abyss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959855447966371891/1218671072652820601/803bf759860c272345c927526cfbed86.mp4?ex=660882e1&is=65f60de1&hm=3830613882d5ff564aebde750586af67041cbfd280b5f583f5072e19bcab2bf3&

[modern tiger]

Only four detachments is kinda lame. They could have done a recon detatchment and a vehicles detachment too

[naive abyss]

ngl i never knew blanche did aos art and this ko art fucks

same for stormcast

[still warren]

storm cast looks like some Jodorowsky dune concept art

[upper canopy]

Munitorum field manual

[south axle]

Ah

[upper canopy]

Also the admech codex is out right

[floral herald]

I think fewer good detachments is better than more ones with some real stinkers personally

[quaint compass]

Yup, to whelming response

[upper bluff]

Maybe next dataslate it'll be good

Btw when do new balance dataslates release usually?

[jaunty dawn]

every 3 months

ish

[floral herald]

I think they're actually pretty decent right now

At least in broad strokes

I think this is the newest one

[jaunty dawn]

the codex wasn't a big improvement/shake up but it was an improvement

aiui

[floral herald]

I think its sort of notable that there's almost 1.5 as many factions with a negative win rate than a positive one in it

Which I think indicates that a lot of factions are ok but being preyed upon but a few much stronger ones

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ahcHWk8-I_s

[quaint compass]

Where's the World Eaters? My boys? My goobers?

[sour sequoia]

From sound of it 3/4 tau detachments are definitely good versus the 3/5 necrons, thats already an improvement

All kinda pends point values obviously but like atm the annihilation legion & obeisance phalanx got nearly no reason to exist

Definitely on the side of quality over quantity here

[floral herald]

I've got no idea huh

Maybe too few people bringing them to tournies?

[quaint compass]

Blastphemy

[brittle salmon]

Literally no one brought them, from what I can tell

Oh no they did

From what I can tell from this datasheet, uh

https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta

It's not good

[hearty relic]

doing better than base CSMs, at least?

(copium)

[jaunty dawn]

huh? base csm are doing great

[hearty relic]

are they?

I was going off the datasheet briar sent

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah hm

[hearty relic]

45 isn't, bad per say

but it's like, 1 mark above a failing grade ya know

[jaunty dawn]

that's a big drop from where they were

[hearty relic]

I do love seeing that there was exactly ONE Imperial Agents player

shoutout to whoever that is

[floral herald]

CSM were doing super well and then a bunch of factions got buffed and they got hit with a few unpleasant nerfs and they dropped like a rock

They also got a few important strats hit really hard

[jaunty dawn]

oof

[hearty relic]

you know it's a rough one when they drop under guard

that's no shade to Guard that faction's just always slightly suffering

[thin ibex]

I feel like a bunch of factions are actually doing fine, with those rates, noting that in a less competitive environment, the difference between top and bottom are a lot smaller imo

The margins are just smaller for competition

[floral herald]

Yeah - I mentioned something similar earlier

When you have a "bottom heavy" winrate table it means a lot of people are balanced and being oppressed by the fewer OP factions

And half the armies are in a 49-46% win rate bucket haha

[pastel rampart]

See, I don't think Stormcast were all that busy on release. What they were was 2Lorge and felt weirdly disproportionate; they've since given them more sensible proportions and look a hell of a lot better for it.

[hearty relic]

this is true: what the FUCK did Necrons get injected with

[floral herald]

it's one of their detachments

[hearty relic]

I'm looking at a goddamn phantom with that winrate

the cryptek one?

[brittle salmon]

two, actually

[floral herald]

Oh is it two?

[brittle salmon]

Hypercrypt Legion and Canoptek Court are both jacked up

[floral herald]

I'd only heard about Hypercrypt Legion

[hearty relic]

I assume Nerfs Incoming level of jacked?

[floral herald]

Probably

[hearty relic]

noted lmao

[hearty relic]

well I'll enjoy watching the day in the sun for my original faction

[floral herald]

Like this is just insanely good

[brittle salmon]

Here's the top win rates factoring in Experienced & Veteran players

[floral herald]

interesting, I didn't know Canoptek was stronger

[hearty relic]

What

Like-

does this let you just, Deathmark Units around

[floral herald]

And Canoptek

[hearty relic]

even Non-Deathmarks/Flayed Ones?

[brittle salmon]

Canoptek Court has the highest player to winrate ratio

[floral herald]

Which is less obviously strong but I assume just gives them a huge shooting steroid

[hearty relic]

Ok ya that's

fuck me running those are both insane actually

[floral herald]

And Necrons have the units to back it up - they've been like top 5 since 10e released

[hearty relic]

Hyperphasing especially is goofy because I've played around with flayed one / deathmark heavy armies in like, 8th

and the advantage you get regardless of edition of "Fuck you [TROOPS APPEAR]" is nuts

[floral herald]

Yeah it makes their scoring extremely good

[hearty relic]

any unit too?

just fucking

Fling a destroyer at an objective's forehead

Goofy shit

[jaunty dawn]

well it doesn't inherently give deep strike to said units

[brittle salmon]

yeah you need Monoliths for units to pop out from

[jaunty dawn]

but they have deploy from monolith and charge strat

and an enhancement that gives deep strike to a leader-able unit or character

[hearty relic]

oh ya I figured

but what is a "fuck you [TROOPS APPEAR]" necron army without a monolith

[hearty relic]

also good I like death marks please keep death marks unique

mostly just because their design is silly in the best possible way

[thin ibex]

It's a bit funny that necrons be using the grey knights Detachment better than the grey knights

[floral herald]

tbf the GK one is actually more flexible

But GK are still kind of overcosted to the point of fragility so they can't score as well with it

But they are also pretty strong because of that stuff

[thin ibex]

Yeah I kinda chalk necron success to greater unit variety lending themselves more flexibility

[naive abyss]

that was def part of it. at the start they literally were just fantasy marines in terms of proportions all the way up to more or less seemingly being a boys club in terms of models. but also some of them went a bit hard on like bits of lightning ornamentations and etc. i think the really obvious ones are4 some old hero models with wild ass armor details and like the non organic winged stuff

i think yndrasta was in some ways them prototyping how theyd wanna do winged stormcast moving forward

cuz that little bit of organic colors/sculpt helps break it up imo

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, those are very much part of that particular like..."age" of GW sculpts that were just a bit too busy/have awful silhouettes.

[naive abyss]

def

its when they i think really had figured out their 3d modeling to plastic pipeline and went fucking too hard in the paint for a bit

[pastel rampart]

It's only in the past...I wanna say 4? maybe 5 years where they've hit a much better stride in terms of "this looks good and isn't just a god-awful spindly mess"

[naive abyss]

like yndrasta and the thunderstrike are very much embelmatic of them sorta finding a middle ground lol

her and carthalos are probably my fave character sculpts for the stormcast

really love carthalos and wanna convert him to a lady with just giant hammer

i do find it funny that the only variant builds are helmet and double grip on the hammer which ngl double grip hammer looks great

like this is peak "im an embodiment of sigmar the warhammer man himselfs will" imo lol

also ill say as well that i think reforging flaws are really cool as a fluff thing

cuz you can just do some wild shit like with mine where they slowly turn to stone lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/1bgn0lp/dwarf_fc_simple_as/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[proud wing]

is there a good primer on warhammer fantasy lore

i know that chaos is essentially the same

and the Britonians are giant nerds

[soft willow]

Honestly? Read Gotrek and Felix from the beginning.

[naive abyss]

i mean honestly warhammer fantasy is weird in that theres allot of lore and details all over from all the years its existed. but like its core what it is on a broad scale is pretty easy to tldr. but if you want meat theres lots of good stuff to look at in the wikis.

as for lore channels book of choyer is pretty good

and yeah gotrek runs through alloty of the setting so thats not a bad rec either

the warhammer fantasy rpg books have lots of good stuff in them too

[soft willow]

Yeah it's one story that just touches so much of it that I think it's a good way to soak it in.

[naive abyss]

but like if you know like the basics of most tolkein derived fantasy youre at least a third of the way there to big picture grasp of the setting

and just sorta need to look at nagash and sigmars lore lol

and maybe briefly look at the war of the beard

for like super broadstrokes

[naive abyss]

cuz beyond that basically the only stuff the stuff this wont really cover is uhhh skaven, chaos in its varieties, and lizardmen lol

also if youre familiar with 40k you can sorta back port some shit to a degree

while distinctions exist greenskins are more or less the same in allot of ways

craftworlds are helves

exodites are welves

deldar and delves