Warhammer and Such

[naive abyss]

These percentages are to make a point not exact

[ebon forge]

Now they can ALL join Mark

[solemn gull]

I wonder if their space ships had taller doors for them or if they just ducked

giant helmets and all

[ebon forge]

g-
Good question

[jaunty dawn]

I think most thousons had psychic powers but they were minor

only the tippity top of the good psykers got power boosted

rest got dusted even if they were psykers

[floral herald]

That sounds right

[naive abyss]

Yeah it was weak psychic and those without

[jaunty dawn]

to begin with they 'just' had a higher percentage of psykers and then like 10 years into the GC the majority had minor power awaken

suddenly

[thin ibex]

i am somewhat glad that it seems that the lov stigma has largely fadeed since they were mostly maligned mechanically and then got nerfed before anything got to gel

tau still have the stigma of being OP or unfair even to this day

with plenty of evidence to the contrary

[uneven ember]

Just want to jump on & say, yeah, this.
A couple lines about how Mechanicus couldn't figure out how Ork stuff worked & suddenly everyone's like "oh Orks are just playing Mage: the Ascension"

"But then why does red make stuff go faster" because it's funny.

Maybe the Adeptus Mechanicus aren't actually very good at things ever think of that

[jaunty dawn]

exxagerating the psychic field also makes meks kinda less terrifying

like

they're not just technology themed wizards

they can genuinely make super hi tech stuff from scrap

[bright dove]

As a dedicated Khorne player, I just hate having to go through fields of gunfire.

I have largely the same reaction to the Imperial Guard: Bastards won't move closer to make my job easier.

[thin ibex]

theres no doubt they have strong match ups for sure, but they're nothing like the triptide/fish of fury era

[floral herald]

Increasingly I think that ork tech is probably psychic powered the same way Eldar stuff is except it looks extremely inelegant

[bright dove]

It's the same design principles, except one goes "Oi, wot if we slam some bitz together?!"

Also, my meme of choice for the Ork field of belief is Purple Orks.

Largely because it's fun, also because it can lead to fun color schemes.

[floral herald]

Yeah I'm much more accepting of that one because it leads to really funny kitbashes and such

[thin ibex]

i wanna do ork kommandos with only their front's painted purple

[bright dove]

Exactly! Why would they paint the back, it's not like they're planning on running away.

[thin ibex]

militarum guardsman sees an ork butt just hanging out

[proud wing]

t'au and knights are both cool concepts, but not super fun on tabletop

it's an issue of pretty much any game where you can pick multiple playable guys

if your guy only does a single thing really well, the game often just comes down to "is your opponent's guy able to counter that one thing"

[floral herald]

Tau at least don't have one trick though

There's a lot of armies as shooting centric as them

[bright dove]

The Tau do technically have multiple tricks.

Like the Imperial Guard.

[thin ibex]

at a high level, theyre sadly a bit one or two trick, but in more casual games, they have more than a few playstyles

which i enjoy

especially with the new kroot stuff on the horizon

generally they're high level playis tetras, crisis with nothing but CIB, and hammerheads, probably some breachers in devilfish

i think ghostkeels see some presentation

[floral herald]

I think at high levels most armies do not have very many tricks

[thin ibex]

yeah i think thats a fair assessement

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/TrenchCrusade/status/1762861247119380546?t=LvWuipWz0YzL4JaiygMM6A&s=19

Trench remains such a good aesthetic

[topaz elk]

Anyone have the imperial answer to aerodynamics image?

[topaz elk]

Thank you

[modern tiger]

with kill team, isnt there like, a weird gap in balance between like two different types of kill teams?

like, compnedium and non compnedium iirc?

[floral herald]

yeah generally speaking compendium teams are weaker

Though some of them are much weaker (gravis) and some of them are basically on the level of non-compendium (hive fleet)

[proud wing]

kill team originally launched with a compendium that had the rules and a bunch of teams that used pre-existing models

then to have more products for customers to buy, they released new ones in separate boxes

which were of course more complicated and power creeped

tyranids and custodes are the two compendium teams that see some tournament play

but overall kill team is pretty solidly balanced

[floral herald]

DG as well

[proud wing]

oh yeah

[thin ibex]

Yall look what I found in one of my storage totes

[floral herald]

Though I forget if those are a white dwarf team of compendium

But they're not a real compendium team anyway since they just made the plague marine kit into specialists

[proud wing]

i'm p sure they're compendium

aren't all the compendium teams existing kits?

[jaunty dawn]

there isnt really a lot of power creep in kill team

post compedium is just straight up a different design area

[proud wing]

but yeah, if you're not at a high level, any team can definitely beat any other team

[jaunty dawn]

DG are still compendium though

[floral herald]

They are but the sort of "traditional" compendium structure is just basic unit types from the squad

[jaunty dawn]

admech harlequins gsc and thousand sons use existing kits and are post compendium

[floral herald]

Intercessors too

[jaunty dawn]

as is chaos cult

mm

[proud wing]

a lot of people complain about tyranids not having a post-compendium kill team, but Hive Fleet is still the most fun team in the game imo

[floral herald]

My flgs just got in like 5 boxes of Exaction Squad

I'm so tempted to make a poor financial decision

[jaunty dawn]

pff

[floral herald]

I really like the Exaction Squad models

[modern tiger]

@floral herald @proud wing @jaunty dawn ok if i screenshot this conversation above and blur out your names to show to my friend whos getting into kt

yall explained it better than i could

[floral herald]

I'm good with that

[jaunty dawn]

sure

[proud wing]

they can be either the best pure melee horde team in the game if you want to turn your brain off, or the only 2APL elite team in the game if you want to be very precise with your actions

yeah, go for it

[modern tiger]

ok

thanks

[jaunty dawn]

I wanna play more kt

[floral herald]

I will also that that Compendium teams are good "intro" teams since they use models which people who already play 40k likely have and tend to be simpler

[jaunty dawn]

yeah 100%

[proud wing]

and honestly i think kill team is probably a much better starting point than 10e

since you only need one box of ~10 models to paint for a 40 minute game

[floral herald]

Yeah the barrier to entry is a lot lower

[proud wing]

instead of needing to commit to a hundred models for a two hour game from the start

(and it's just, a much more fun game, in my opinion at least)

kill team also has a much higher concentration of dogs and birds in their models

[floral herald]

true

[jaunty dawn]

easier to pivot if you like a faction less than you thought too

[floral herald]

Yeah there's relatively few "faction mains" since its fun to collect teams

[bright dove]

Not as much of a barrier to entry.

[thin ibex]

Kill Team is a great starting point imo, for 40k

As is combat patrol

[jaunty dawn]

I wish boarding actions got a bit more 10e support

[thin ibex]

I wonder if 40k comp would be very different if it allowed for a "sideboard" of units you can swap to per match

[floral herald]

It’d change it a lot

[topaz elk]

So question, if the legends units are fully stated out why aren’t they usable officially?

[pastel rampart]

Big reason is GW doesn't want to sell the models anymore.

[jaunty dawn]

at gw events; ostensibly it's because they have no intention of updating the points if anything is fucky

at other events; see gw events

[pastel rampart]

That too.

[jaunty dawn]

outside events; cause people are silly, frankly

[pastel rampart]

"If you still have this model there's technically support"

[jaunty dawn]

like they might've had less thought put into them but like

it's not like the mainline set of units is perfectly balanced lol

[modern tiger]

i dont feel like combat patrol is very balanced, and some of the new combat patrols are terrible value and/or starting points

looking at admech

still a bit bitter that they turned it into a horde faction

[topaz elk]

Ah they’re just, discontinued models that are still owned by people

[thin ibex]

i dunno ive seen the combat patrols actually played, and the games go a lot closer than a straightforward examination of their stats

but i do think like the overall value can feel a bit off sometimes

but in play at least, ive seen them generally played into fairly close matches

admittedly ive not seen all of them in play

[modern tiger]

im pretty sure there are some that are busted?

not sure

[pulsar cairn]

https://youtu.be/05SRKiwSq1g?si=rzpSzbmbTUFxmUF9

[thin ibex]

i want them to change reivers to use astartes shotguns

and give the reiver liutenant an astartes double barrel

[jaunty dawn]

shotguns need love in 40k

I agree

[upper bluff]

Yeah it always surprises me how few shotguns there are.

Dark tide had a cool one when I tried it on gamepass

[jaunty dawn]

they eventually got a decent niche in that they reduced the initiative of stuff fhey hit iirc

but not in 7th so must just be a heresy thing

ah wait ws not initiative

but yeah its weird. theyre terrifying in necromunda

[zinc field]

Jump pack marines dual wielding double barrelled shotguns would be pretty sick

[naive abyss]

Tbh that'd work great for votann jump troops too

[thin ibex]

I feel like reivers with shotguns at effectively like squads of doomguys

I'd love to also see a Catachan squad leader get a combat shotgun

[modern tiger]

gimme dwarves wielding double barrels with an underslung axe blade

[thin ibex]

A lot of this idea relies way too hard on the reiver Warlord surviving...

Maybe I should move the trait onto a Terminator captain

[solemn gull]

But have you considered double bladed axes with underslung shotguns

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA8CporFvJo

[unreal cosmos]

nod nod

or incursors, I'd take that too

I think the phobos units could have just used the different scout loadouts and worked fine

[thin ibex]

infiltrator heavy bolter

with a magazine and short barrel

effectively para-heavy bolter

give reivers a pyreblaster

or a ,ultimelta

[past sphinx]

i hate to say it but modern heavy bolters are that

[floral herald]

What’s that from kit wise?

[past sphinx]

Sternguard

[floral herald]

Ahh

[naive abyss]

i mean not all heavy bolters look like that lol

[past sphinx]

does fit that desciption tho

[naive abyss]

like sob ones are still belts and the shells even have fleur de lys

def

tbh i do like that ones look too

especially the gun shield

[past sphinx]

the nail gun shield is rad

a very specific kind of gooft

[naive abyss]

makes it look like they just ripped the thing from a gun emplacement lol

[floral herald]

I wonder if an ammo bag stripped down heavy bolter would look good

[past sphinx]

i think making the weight look right would be incredibly hard

now a SAW style magazine fed heavy bolter, now we cookin

[naive abyss]

smh wheres my lewis gun style heavy bolter

[past sphinx]

WAIT FUCK

i done redid something for 2e

perfection

[naive abyss]

lol

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s what I mean

Outside of some basics like not having the cables and such to make it look lighter

Or maybe a combined ammo bag/battery with a cable to the back the of gun

[topaz elk]

I always kinda like those tbh

[floral herald]

I like the shield more than the weird cage around the barrel

[topaz elk]

What are the cages?

[floral herald]

This thing

[topaz elk]

Ohhhh

I don’t know why but honestly I kinda like them

[floral herald]

I don’t mind it on the floaty fellas but it feels weird on the big heavy bolter to me

Actually I might like it more with a breaching ram under it

[topaz elk]

That would make sense

Honestly I’m surprised GW doesn’t use more underbarrel stuff for their guns

Guns on guns feels very 40K

Though I guess combi weapons are kinda that

[floral herald]

Yeah though a lot of them are horrible hack jobs (I love them for this)

[upper canopy]

Yeah they'd usually do combi weapons vs like

Actual tacticool underslung stuff

[topaz elk]

The differences between an under slug shotgun on a rifle and a gun that’s 50% rifle 50% shotgun

[floral herald]

I’m honestly really surprised that GW hasn’t made a Primaris model with cathedral arch shaped picatinny rails

Picatinarius

[topaz elk]

Found by the Arch Magus Picatinaran

[past sphinx]

it seems like a barrel stand off, but there isnt a reason to have a barrel stand off because the bolter doubles as a bludgeoning tool and a flashbang

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s why it bugs me

The heavy bolter is already extremely robust as a design

[past sphinx]

Space for the rocket drive to engage?

[floral herald]

That’s a fun idea

Standoff for barrel stuffing

[topaz elk]

Though with bolters they’re still normal guns

Though I guess in 40K there is quite a bit that can survive a point black Bolter round

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qekoRP

[thin ibex]

Logan hasn't gotten a lot of narrative presence of late

Comparative to Dante and calgar

But I think I'm fine with it cause the wolves as a whole have an outsized narrative presence

[thin ibex]

Time to do another Logan list lol

Simple and straightforward, mass elites, a lot rides on the turn Logan declares his big howl

Lethal hits on the wolf guard will let them tear up most anything

Logan and arjac derpstrike in, also a bit of a tac unit

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxhu8OTnMEA&t=57s

[past sphinx]

AoS continues to taunt me with propa dawi models

[thin ibex]

We only get proper dawi out of CoS right?

Neither fyreslayers or the air ship ones do the shield and axe vibe iirc

[still warren]

probably dispossed but they don't have new aos models still the old dwarf ones I think

[jaunty dawn]

I think the newest non fyreslayer/kharadron dawi model is the one in Iron Golems hah

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KHif08GYhU

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ba5m9j/new_space_marine_2_lore_the_events_between_space/

seems neat

[tired cairn]

The accidental uwu speak with "intwrrogated " makes me giggle

Just casually serving the deathwatch inbetween games

[bright dove]

Once again, the Deathwatch being basically a punishment detail.

[jaunty dawn]

they really said titus who

just imagining titus coming to knock on calgars door but he hears talking and calgar and tigurius are like "he is such a disgrace, we should remove him from the records entirely" and titus gets sad and runs away but then it turns out they're talking about leandros the whole time

classic hijinks

[floral herald]

lmfao

[raw vessel]

I want to see a game about Titus serving in the deathwatch now rather than just more ultramarines stuff.

[runic swallow]

That was the original plan for Space Marine 2 actually

[thin ibex]

i actually don't mind the ultramarine stuff tbh

they're also like the traditional tyranid enemy

[runic swallow]

The thing I really mind is that Mark Strong didn’t return to voice Titus, the new guy just sounds wrong

Just “generic guy doing gruff voice” rather than a guy who just sounds like that

[upper bluff]

It never even occurred to me that Titus would be a primaris marine in 2

[jaunty dawn]

finally calling my leviathan box done

painted all the nids and they're even based technically. nothing fancy but clean

painted the marine sans half the infernus and the dread. gonna paint the dread as part of another project. loopholeeee

nids have been done for weeks I just got so bored painting marines haha

[naive abyss]

They also only exist in cos

[still warren]

the faction yes, but all the models are still old fantasy ones

[ebon forge]

I am glad they moved Abbadon's.. red hair thingy...to be on his armor
It looks like a party hat here

[junior robin]

wait what

its still attached to his head with the new plastic model.

though the FW one got the same metal sheath for it.

now I wonder if the topknot is a banned haircut among loyalists 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

white scars do it

I think some space wolvestoo

[junior robin]

oh yeah

Ragnar Blackmane even got it

[bright dove]

Oh look how happy he is after Cadia

[thin ibex]

you know

its kinda cool that thanks to their detachment

GK can do full terminator armies

and not suffer immensely in the mobility side of things

[junior summit]

"Oh shit titus you're back we all thought you were dead that's a real bad on our end"

"also by the way we've knocked you down to lieutenant even though literally nothing that happened to you was your fault"

[floral herald]

I mean what are they gonna do, demote Sevastus?

[brittle salmon]

Of all the UM characters, Sicarius is by far the least deserving of his title

so yes

[floral herald]

Sicarius isn’t the second company captain now though, he’s doing something off books involving G-man’s honor guard iirc

[brittle salmon]

o

[floral herald]

Oh wait, apparently Acheran is probably dead now

So ironically enough Titus might have an officer’s berth in the narrative present lmao

My low stakes conspiracy is that Space Marine 2 involves being promoted to captain at some point in the story now

[bright dove]

"Oh joy I get my job back, greeeeeaaaaatttt"

[topaz elk]

Can lieutenants become captains?

I thought that was a kinda, non primaris job now

No wait Nevermind there’s so many primaris captains

[jaunty dawn]

lieutenants are probably gonna be the most likely to become captain of a particular company next yeah

[floral herald]

It seems like a pretty standard promotion to me

The non-Primaris system is either promoting a senior veteran sergeant or member of the command squad

Though given how flat space marine ranks are I think captain is usually a terminal posting

[jaunty dawn]

lieutenants also just straight up used to be a thing

before primaris

until like 4th ed

[proud wing]

you know, the lore concept of custodes is kind of weird

like, the entire raison d'etre of warhammer lore is "provide a reason for why any faction could fight any other faction"

but since the whole concept of custodes is "the best warriors in the imperium but they get completely wasted", they've fought to my knowledge exactly two battles in the last ten thousand years

[jaunty dawn]

uh

they were a heresy release

[topaz elk]

I thought they were removed in 3rd Ed?

[jaunty dawn]

and then they were part of gathering storm

[topaz elk]

Or even 2nd?

[jaunty dawn]

in 30k and in indomitus era custodes are all over the place

[topaz elk]

They’re more active now but also yah I’m pretty sure lore wise they’ve literally never met the Tau and I doubt they’ve met the Votan

[jaunty dawn]

their like main guy fought in the new tyranid war

I thought lieutenants were in the 3rd ed codex but I misremembered they're just called leaders haha

[topaz elk]

Ahhh

You thought they were the guys leading squads?

[topaz elk]

Oh there was just a generic space marine character named that

[jaunty dawn]

commander is capain

force commander is cm

[topaz elk]

Are force commanders chapter masters?- ah cool

[jaunty dawn]

leader is just 'experienced veteran'

[topaz elk]

So just sternguard then

[jaunty dawn]

so its like they're not really calling them lieutenants anymore but the concept was still there in 3e

starting 4th you had to take a captain librarian or chaplain at least as your compulsory hq

[topaz elk]

Could you just not take anyone in 3E?

[jaunty dawn]

sternguard wouldn't actually show up till 5th I think

you could just take veterans squads before then

[topaz elk]

Oh

[jaunty dawn]

I mean like in 4th you need a captain equivalent minimum to lead a force while in 3rd you could have a 'leader' be your hq choice

[topaz elk]

Ohhh

You needed someone they could just be kinda shit

But in 4th they needed to be at least a captain

[jaunty dawn]

ye

[topaz elk]

Also yah it’s very funny to make a 1 wound guy your leader

[jaunty dawn]

it's literally just a veteran statline haha

[topaz elk]

The person leading your entire army dead from a single las shot

[jaunty dawn]

veteran sergeant

[topaz elk]

You just grab like 10 of them and form a squad kinda

[jaunty dawn]

you could give him a command squad and the sergeant of the command squad has the exact same stats

but he does have slightly better access to the armoury

[topaz elk]

An extremely convoluted way of making a completely normal unit

[topaz elk]

Yah in 3rd Ed characters could just take like, whatever they wanted right?

[jaunty dawn]

uh pretty much yeah

like something would give you access to the armoury and then you could spend up to 100 points

some of the options are limited

like while any sergeant with terminator honors can access the armoury only the hq characters could take artificer armour

[floral herald]

Thanks to the really strong IC protection that edition had it'd be a lot harder

[topaz elk]

What was there?

[floral herald]

Basically leaders could join squads and you'd have to kill the whole squad first

I think the only way to bypass that in 3rd ed was the callidus assassin

[topaz elk]

Oh so like this edition kinda

[jaunty dawn]

scouts could take sniper rifles so they did exist

but idk if they did precision shots

[floral herald]

No stronger, since there was no Precision tag

[topaz elk]

Ohhhh

[brittle salmon]

were there no challenges in 3rd ed or anything?

[floral herald]

IIRC no

[brittle salmon]

damn

[jaunty dawn]

challenges came in 5th

[floral herald]

Maybe in melee

[topaz elk]

Damn

[floral herald]

Snipers had basically Rending (6s to wound denied armor saves)

[jaunty dawn]

and always wounded on 4

[topaz elk]

Still sounds super good

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I think its basically just the vindicare

[floral herald]

Rending was very strong yeah

Genestealers and clowns also had it

But it was a fairly rare rule

Oh! Also the assault cannon

[jaunty dawn]

and culexus but only if the guy you're after is a psyker

oh independent characters didn't even need to join a squad in 3e to be protected apparently

that might just be a firing priority thing cause that was a thing

[topaz elk]

So they could just, didn’t have to

[topaz elk]

Those rules seemed so annoyed to work around tbh

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it's still a thing in necromunda and it's just not very interesting

[topaz elk]

Is it like, vehicles, infantry then characters?

[jaunty dawn]

it was basically just closest unit

and to shoot anything else you need to make a check

but also I got a 3e rulebook and yeah independent characters were just fully untargetable if they were within 6" of a squad even if they didn't join it

unless they're within 12" and the closest target

[topaz elk]

Yah maybe having a 1 wound leader isn’t the worst idea anymore

[jaunty dawn]

so kinda the 9th ed rules?

[topaz elk]

Yah just with the ability to squad up still

[jaunty dawn]

challenges weren't a thing but characters were allowed to specifically target people they were in base to base with in close combat if they wanted

sniper rifles actually did not have rending yet in 3e

but always hit on 2+ always wounded on a 4+ and had pinning

so one other fun thing about wounds though. anything strength 8 or higher would do instant death so it didn't matter how many wounds you had

salamanders got a special cloak that let them ignore this rule and just take wounds as normal

and then in 4e that becomes a generic item and the adamantium mantle is born

one of the other special salamanders rules was they could force the game to last another round haha

[floral herald]

They had weak protection from target priority yeah, but everyone attached them anway

Or "attached" yeah

[jaunty dawn]

also in 3e the way they balanced indirect weapons was by making you guess the range to the target sjsisjbwgwjjwns

[floral herald]

Guess Range was kind of cool

[jaunty dawn]

and the template landed atvthe range you guessed whether it was right or not

[topaz elk]

Honestly such funny game design

[jaunty dawn]

but also some units like stormtroopers had targetters; a special wargear that let you gasp. measure to see if you were in range before you decided to shoot their hellguns

once you used this ability however, you were banned from firing any barrage weapons until the next round

with any unit

it was very serious business

[topaz elk]

Stormtroopers screaming over coms “DONT FIRE THE ARTILLERY, WE ALREADY SHOT OUR GUNS!!!!!”

[jaunty dawn]

we know the exact co-ords of the enemy but we're not telling teehee

[topaz elk]

The imperial guard promote competition among ranks in order to foster stronger soldiers

Unfortunately this often leads to key information being withheld in order to win in petty competitions

[jaunty dawn]

they had funny masks at this time too

[topaz elk]

Big ass eyes

[bold halo]

look at that jaunty stance on the left

[topaz elk]

He’s got a pep in his step

Also wait I gotta ask

[mental birch]

OH GOD

range guessing

hahahaha

[topaz elk]

If you guessed incorrectly could you shoot your own guys?

[mental birch]

yes

yes you could

or pie plate

your own lines

[topaz elk]

3rd edition was a comedy game

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah that was one of the cool things about seeker missiles on tau. didnt scatter and hit indirect as long as you got a markerlight on the target

[mental birch]

ALL HAIL MARKERLIGHTS

[topaz elk]

Oh yah what were scatter die actually?

[mental birch]

A die with 4 faces of arrows

and 2 faces of hits

and you rolled it along with your to hit roll

and moved the pie plate in the direction

the arrow pointed

[topaz elk]

That’s very funny

[jaunty dawn]

in 3e you didnt even get a hit roll it always scattered. didnt even minus your ballistic skill from the d6 distance it scattered

[topaz elk]

So artillery was just guessing a range and then modifying that range with scatter die?

[mental birch]

hahaha

[jaunty dawn]

so youd guess the range

[topaz elk]

Using artillery in 3E sounds terrifying tbh

[mental birch]

Wait

[mental birch]

Play the guard

and the artillery park

[jaunty dawn]

place the template at that range directly toward the target unit

then youd roll a scatter die and a d6

if you rolled a hit on the scatter it stayed where it was

if you rolled an arrow it moved as many inches as the d6 in the direction the arrow pointed

[topaz elk]

And then finally whatever models are in the template are hit?

[jaunty dawn]

yup

[topaz elk]

Shit was it really good for vehicles then?

[floral herald]

I may be misremembering but IIRC seeker missiles were never guess range

[topaz elk]

Because they’re big targets and I know they didn’t have wounds back then

[mental birch]

Seekers were just you ignore line of sight

[topaz elk]

Just a chart that determined what happened to them if they’re hurt

[floral herald]

It's not that hard to estimate guess ranges from table dimensions

[jaunty dawn]

no you could only fire them using a markerlight yeah

[floral herald]

Though I forget if 3e was one of the editions where you needed to land the hole in the template on a vehicle for a full power hit

[jaunty dawn]

always hit on a 2+ and didnt need line of sight from where the missile was coming from

3e did have when a blast only partially covered a model it was a 4+ to see if it got hit

[topaz elk]

Huh

[jaunty dawn]

didnt need a direct hit on vehicles no. just measured the side hit from the centre of the blast

large blast/ordnance weapons (they were synonymous at this time) had their own damage chart which was a 50/50 youd kill the vehicle

[topaz elk]

Oh huh

[jaunty dawn]

sorry that was also the case for penetrating hits. the difference was that ordnance weapons had worse results when you did destroy the vehicle

regular weapons it was like wrecked/thrown/exploded

ordnance it was thrown/exploded/superexploded

[bright dove]

Now mind you, the Basilisk was still glorious in this time.

[topaz elk]

Ohhh

[bright dove]

Because you could just saturated the field.

And hit something

[jaunty dawn]

ap didnt affect vehicle damage at this time so the damage charts were pretty deadly of you did pen

instead of the jink saves they got later skimmers just straight up could not be penetrated if they had moved that round

[topaz elk]

It also was just if you didn’t have a strong enough weapon you couldn’t do anything right?

Like no matter how many bolters you shot

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[topaz elk]

It would never pen a land raider

[jaunty dawn]

it was strength plus a d6 and you had to match (glance) or beat (pen)

[floral herald]

Oh was AP 1 working better a 4e thing?

[jaunty dawn]

and a land raider was av 14 all around

yeah

1 and 2

[topaz elk]

And if it’s less?

[jaunty dawn]

nothing

just pings off

[topaz elk]

Ah ok

[jaunty dawn]

so against a land raider or a leman russes front armour you needed a strength 8 weapon just to have a chance

[pastel rampart]

Cool in concept but in execution encouraged the worst kind of grognardianism.

[jaunty dawn]

open topped vehicles got +1 to damage so a glance would kill on a 5+ and a pen on a 3+

[pastel rampart]

Every motherfucker learned how long their arm was from index tip to elbow so they could just "point" at a unit and "guess" with supreme accuracy.

[jaunty dawn]

and they took 2 hits if they got hit by a blast

that was mainly stuff like ork trukks

[mental birch]

oh yeah definitely, I quickly learnt how long specific things were just to brain measure

for necromunda

or at least it got stuck in my brain that X thing was about this much long

[pastel rampart]

Also my favorite (and I mean supreme hate) was the Craftworld Eldar book, specifically the Altaioc rules.

http://puu.sh/K2xYQ/779123f9aa.jpg

Check out that table on the right.

[jaunty dawn]

path-finders

[mental birch]

ewwww

[pastel rampart]

Your army is starting off either kicked off in reserved, pinned, or shot at.

I'd seen, more than once!, a whole army just get wiped off the field before the game even started.

[jaunty dawn]

some assault marines doing a seraphim impression

this guy would like you to read

[unreal cosmos]

suddenly understand completely where Inceptors came from

[naive abyss]

well not enmasse met them but theres lore about the weird custodes spies and stuff

so theoretically at least a few have likely been aware of stuff like that

on an entirely different note

https://www.deviantart.com/eliphusz/art/Squats-Vs-Tyranids-857843170

while i very much like the update of the lov are to space dorfs in 40k i do think having like a retro lov kill team like this would be fun

like some sorta weird kin merc team

[floral herald]

Inceptors also remind of these guys, though I think that piece above is also probably inspired by them

[naive abyss]

hell the lov codex does have art of a kin similarly kitted out like this

[jaunty dawn]

his legs are so anime

[naive abyss]

that marine has to pee very badly lol

this reminds me that it sorta fucked with my brain to learn that stormcast eat and sleep

[thin ibex]

Standard company is like what, 1 captain, 2 lieutenants, 1 chief Apothecary, 1 chief tech marine, 1 chaplain, 1 ancient? As far as officer staff?

[naive abyss]

idk why i assumed they didnt but like idk theyre weird magic lightning super soldiers

[naive abyss]

also as ref

ngl this piece of art still has some of the coolest lov art

though im still sorta salty at the bottom middle lady having a sword lol

[floral herald]

Pretty much everything after the Lientenants is not formally part of the company but yeah

[thin ibex]

I really appreciate the grungly Kin on the right

[naive abyss]

def

im curious what they are piloting

[floral herald]

I'm actually not sure if Apothecaries are organic or just attached

[naive abyss]

also the left is the oldschool retro space dorfs i was mentioning earlier

so seemingly sometyhing liket hose still exist

my absolute fave piece in the collage though is the kin on top of the ork

really sells the size difference

[thin ibex]

Long term expeditions or squats maybe?

[naive abyss]

and also the cool lady in the middle

[thin ibex]

For the old school I mean

[naive abyss]

i always assumed some sorta like long term mercs

cuz kin also live a fairly long time

[floral herald]

sort of outdated but it looks like chaplains and apothecaries are organic and techmarines and librarians are not

[naive abyss]

also that retro kin smoking reminds me it still fucks with me not a single kin is modled with a cigar or something

[floral herald]

(Though old sources are better since the amount of info GW gives on space marine organization shrinks with time)

[naive abyss]

like thats super easy to greenstuff but still

[thin ibex]

Is the retro kin smoking 3 cigs at once?

[naive abyss]

two i think

or its a fat flayed to fuck cigar

very chewed on cigard energy

or a mess blunt

ngl im going with messy blunt

cuz its funny

also this collage always reminds me of the future potential for stuff in the range ngl

[jaunty dawn]

for a while chaplains were basically the lt equiv of a company. had their own command squad and between them and the cap each led a demi company

[naive abyss]

that and the are ot the carnyx banners

which i desperately want a model of

[floral herald]

Oh that's interesting, I didn't know there was an era when that was sort of official

[naive abyss]

on the right here and man they would kick ass

itd be a perfect way to also break up the more pragmatic looking equipment

and bring a bit more of the kin culture into the range

[solemn gull]

Can’t diss my boy

Cato has been going through a awesome arc recently

[past sphinx]

Birb man

And his ork friend

[past sphinx]

Need some second eyes on this part tho

[past sphinx]

You know what

That pistol should be a hand flamer

[rocky shale]

Impulse bought some war dogs because my LGS actually had them in stock and someday I want to play CSM and/or chaos knights.

They look fun to paint once I get my airbrush set up.

[solemn gull]

Could do something with that empty belt area

[valid brook]

Those Predator dreadlocks are some choice gs work, curious how you get that effect

[sweet solar]

you can get greenstuff rollers

[past sphinx]

Yup, a lotta tedious work with green stuff rollers

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/SiegeStudios/status/1766742098340909153

[pastel rampart]

You can also use the ol' reliable: a plastic comb.

[valid brook]

Now that’s what I’m talking about, hell yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/NNNmengmeng/status/1668941034825605120

[bright dove]

God that's cool.

[thin ibex]

I'm honestly a fan of the sisters war suits

It's a cool unit

I'll make a couple sisters armies today

[pastel rampart]

https://i.imgur.com/mdRfR5l.png

[jaunty dawn]

oh kroot preorder next sat

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4WDSFjLBNV/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

warhammerofficial

Sigmar lied.

#WarhammerAoS #WarhammerCommunity #Warhammer #WarhammerAgeofSigmar

Instagram

ominous!!!

[upper canopy]

SIGMAR LIED

EVERYONE DIED

[storm schooner]

"Sigmar Lied" but said like a young child telling on a teacher

[junior robin]

first thing this made me think of is skaven, but I don't know if their existence is denied like back in the old world? 🤔

oh wait its a video

[jaunty dawn]

bells and thunder mainly

[junior robin]

which are on the top 10 of skavens favourite things.

[jaunty dawn]

I don't think skaven have much aos lore

other than the necroquake stuff

yeah but I don't think the end lightning is skaven

it's more like stormcast appearing

[junior robin]

finally, more stormcast.

[jaunty dawn]

it's 4th ed innit

[junior robin]

"there wont be a 4th ed." Sigmar Warhammer.

and who is the 4th chaos god? the horned rat! everything make sense now.

[naive abyss]

i mean the horned rat is already stated as a fifth chaos god in aos

[jaunty dawn]

slaanesh is awol still

so it is more like 4th god

[naive abyss]

i mean they exist just still stuck in gay baby jail

[jaunty dawn]

yeah but the whole reason horned rat joined the great game is because slaanesh is indisposed to playing haha

[naive abyss]

i mean

aos pretty explciitly has redefined it to the big five more or less

at least for aos

[topaz elk]

He told me he would be back in 5 and took 7

[naive abyss]

he ascended to full god hood during the end times

[naive abyss]

"One of the good things about aos is Sigmar is actually cool, don’t make him just Big E rip off"

comment on saw on the insta post

and ngl i sorta agree with it

[topaz elk]

Yah but this to me reads as “a new faction appears that’s spiteful to sigmar for some reason”

And like

[naive abyss]

i hope this isnt them just incompetencifying sigmar so hes comparable to big e or something

[topaz elk]

He’s a cool dude but he’s done a lot to spite a lot of people

[naive abyss]

i mean fair

[jaunty dawn]

sigmar's goal is actually to save people

so even if he's flawed he is not the emp

[topaz elk]

He was still a barbarian warlord in life and barbarian wargod in divinity

[naive abyss]

just idk sigmar lie being followed up by stormcast lightning at the end makes me a bit worried

i mean ill be real the only group sigmar like directly spited was the norsca more or less as my memory serves lol

[topaz elk]

I mean wasn’t the stuff we saw leaks anyway?

[naive abyss]

what stuff?

[topaz elk]

So it could just be a hint towards those new models

[topaz elk]

The new norsca equivalent

[naive abyss]

do you mean the darkoath?

[topaz elk]

Yah

[naive abyss]

those arent really the norsca equivalent and theyve been directly shown off

also we already know the deal with darkoath lol

[topaz elk]

Oh I thought they were a leak

[naive abyss]

it was first a leak then an announcement

[jaunty dawn]

I think darkoath are getting rules before 4e so they're not gonna be the starter box

[naive abyss]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/04/darkoath-army-set-meet-the-dark-mirror-of-the-cities-of-sigmar/

[jaunty dawn]

plus not monopose haha

[naive abyss]

darkoath are cool but they arent really a norsca equivalent outside of both being barbarians of chaos lol

[jaunty dawn]

I think one of the big sigmar lies could be like why the alliance in the age of myth broke up

[naive abyss]

considering norsca more or less became slaves to darkness

im assuming it has something to do with the crusades

wait

theres a rat in the video

i may be reading too much into a rat existing in the video

but still

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah that was a big rat

big ol rat

[naive abyss]

it might be that one rumor where skaven have figured out how to destroy souls including stormcast ones

which is something i think sigmar said was impossible

also like the very first frames of th vid are flashing with green light

and the current rumors and leaks have all been pointing to skaven as part of 4e rollout

[topaz elk]

Oh then yah this is absolutely skaven related then

Saying “Sigmar lied” is them taunting the stormcasts

That their souls are in fact very destructible

[naive abyss]

yeah

though im unsure how like actually canon sigmar saying that was impossible was

but if the whole sigmar lied thing is just skaven figuring out how to do some bullshit just to spite him thatd be fine

cuz theyve been doing that since the beginnings of warhammer lol

itd also be a fun way to make skaven the big threat for a time

cuz them being able to cause honest to gods attrition among stormcast means there power of numbers can come back into play

ngl i hope how they destroy souls relats to the doom bell

and thats the bell in this teaser

and why everything is shaking is its fucking up stormcast coming back

[still warren]

They found a way to turn their souls it even better warpstone drugs

[naive abyss]

lol

id love for the whole the bells are weird fucked up things no one can explain coming full circle

cuz not even the skaven full get why it works as memory serves

also cuz the doom bell model fucks

[still warren]

Stormcasts can already get caught and eaten by ogres when their soul lighting aways, won't be surprised if skaven found a way to use them as electricity

[naive abyss]

though its also talking about something having a price

which im unsure howd that would play into this

[still warren]

Reforging isn't actually coming back to life it's just a degraded copy every time? That's close to the "truth" anyway

[naive abyss]

well reforging flaw is like a known thing

[topaz elk]

Snorting crystal stormcloak

[naive abyss]

someone observed that this appears to be azyr

[jaunty dawn]

oh azyr is meant to be pretty much safe

that could be a spiteful lie

like

a skaven taunt or humans feeling betrayed by the promise of safety even if isn't entirely rational

[naive abyss]

maybe due to pushing so hard and fast with the crusades it exposed azyr to gnawholes somehow?

[jaunty dawn]

would also explain like the increasing focus on the order of azyr

since aiui they got their origins in purging azyr during the age of chaos

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqwyMcXbdok

[tepid stratus]

There's also the bit from the Hamilcar novels of skaven reverse engineering the reforging process

[bright dove]

They what

[jaunty dawn]

so it seems like this is directly following from the twin tailed crusade

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/10/a-storm-is-brewing-in-the-mortal-realms/

wide screen video too

also unless this is a mistake I think this means a new tau combat patrol is coming? the current one has 5 datasheets

[upper bluff]

I can see them doing a ktoot centric combat patrol

[jaunty dawn]

I hope so

it would be pretty cool to have them available in the game mode

[floral herald]

I think they said something about a Kroot patrol box

[desert jay]

There's an announced Kroot box w/ 26 models but whether or not it'll have patrol rules is still unknown

20 carnivores, 1 krootox rider, 1 war shaper, 1 flesh shaper, 3 rampagers

[thin ibex]

lots of flamers and heavy bolters

[jaunty dawn]

too many datasheets to be the one printed in the codex/datacards but they've been publishing other ones too

[desert jay]

Yeah. Could also be a subset/intersection of the box, they've done that too w/ the SM one printed in White Dwarf, which is one character mini plus a subset of the Vanguard TF box

[thin ibex]

"Battlesuits"

[ebon forge]

Very late , but i have to say it, i love it

[pulsar cairn]

That's a former drukhari right?

I know yvraine is one as well

unless every ynnari dresses that way

[modern tiger]

Chaos stormcast?

That would be greaaaaat -.-

[naive abyss]

It's likely skaven

Considering it would take allot away from the one known chaos stormcast that belakor caused if they became a normal thing

[brittle salmon]

It is 200% skaven

Lol

GW is following up on all the model ranges in dire need of a refresh and Skaven are the clear candidate after Cities of Sigmar, which was previous

They have some gorgeous End Times stuff that can still hold up, but so much of the rest is ancient

[naive abyss]

Actually correction apparently eternus was a varanguard not a stormcast. Though he was then made into a weird not stormcast via the cursed skies lol

[bright dove]

A new elite unit for the Skaven would be nice.

[brittle salmon]

I imagine if they do gun for Skaven, it'll be a basic model refresh + a fair chunk of new stuff

[naive abyss]

The bigger not ratling gun has already leaked

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/bradglover_/status/1766877212895056102

[spice flicker]

I know regarding that sigmar lied thing which is related to AOS 4th edition, my personal prediction is that it's tied to the fact that Ikit Claw has mastered the process of reforging. So maybe the lie is that only he can do it, chaos stormcast can't exists, or that the skaven can't reach Azyr since that background noise sounded like both a bell and a hammer on an anvil.

[thin ibex]

We'd have to know what he said to know what he lied about right?

[jaunty dawn]

one plot thread with reforging is that its gotten like worse

first because in order to lessen attrition they no longer go through a period of training and rehabilitation after each reforging

and second because the sacrosant chamber no longer aids the process, in favour of seeking a permanent solution

[naive abyss]

Wait ikit claw is still around?

[still warren]

Ikit claw reforged as a new centerpiece model plus the stormcast who got sent to the ruination chamber being unleashed as a desperate measure with Azyr being directly attacked

[still warren]

Ikrit Claw now, described as an impossibly old warlock engineer who figured out the reforging process through vivisecting stormcast

[naive abyss]

Also when/where was it stated they figured this out?

[still warren]

Hamilcar novel

[spice flicker]

I think it was experiments on the stormcast Hamilcar that allowed Ikit/Ikrit to figure out the process and in a book centered on their conflict (Hamilcar Champion of the Gods I think) has a moment when Ikrit is defeated only to vanish in a bolt of lightning like stormcast do and hypothesized to have returning to his mobile lair.

[jaunty dawn]

which is the last time he appeared I think

although to be clear the whole

lightning bolting souls thing and reforging are entirely seperate processes

like reforging is taking a soul and turning it back into a body

[spice flicker]

But yeah Ikit Claw is my favorite skaven besides thanquol so seeing a return of the greatest of clan skyre is always nice to me at least.

Also apparently Ikrit is being hunted by like half the major gods (including the GHR) and supposedly has his sights on usurping Sigmar so it will be interesting to see what ends up happening.

[bright dove]

Hrm. They do have Stormvermin and Stormfiends already. Maybe that's not idle naming from the Skaven. :p

[jaunty dawn]

haha yeah

[spice flicker]

Weren't the Storm rats from end times first?

[bright dove]

Yes, but shhhh

[jaunty dawn]

stormfiends are

stormvermin is just what elite rats have always been called

cause stormtroopers

[bright dove]

Incidentally, both are where you're going to be likely to find the most forgeable souls for the rats

[pine matrix]

Decided to spice up my Archon's base

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

not gonna bother doing stuff for clanrats

[spice flicker]

If they do stormcast skaven they can finally have an excuse for why boneripper can repeatedly get replaced so quickly.

[bright dove]

But yeah, if Ikit has figured out the process, everyone else should probably try to put a stop to it, including the other Chaos factions. The last thing the world needs is recursive Skaven

[jaunty dawn]

I hope they follow the same tac as leviathan and make most of the models refreshes

like thunderstrike versions of the older stormcast units I mean

especially with cryptborn from the first box being refreshed

espcially since a few sacrosant units literally have anti-revive rules haha

[spice flicker]

New ikrit claw model would be nice and maybe some refreshes to clan Skrye models might be welcome as well or am I wrong?

[jaunty dawn]

refreshes of basically everything skaven haha

[still warren]

Yeah the old models really don't hold up the best and weve already seen at least one new skyre thing from leaks

[spice flicker]

I've found that I enjoy both skaven and nighthaunt but I can't really decide on which to go with. I mean I have what I think might be a decent nighthaunt list planned but not sure how good it would be and for skaven I prefer clan skrye but can never find a list that I like for them.

[still warren]

Skaven are getting the big refresh so if you're on the fence it might be better to wait

[jaunty dawn]

and they'll be cheaper to get into if you like what comes out

nighthaunt are awesome though

[spice flicker]

The NH list I was tinkering with:

1x Guardian of Souls with beacon of nagashizzar
1x Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed with Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
1x lady Olyander
1x Reikenor
1x spirit torment

20x chainrasps
20x chainrasps
20x chainrasps
20x chainrasps
10x Bladegheist
10x Bladegheist

Suffocating gravetide

1980/2000 points

Tried for a "they won't stay dead" theme while having some lethality on top of the revival shenanigans

Thoughts?

[tepid stratus]

I'm assuming this is gonna be in scarlet doom or emerald host?

[spice flicker]

Looking back it was Grieving legion

Everything in two battle regiments

This is a list I haven't looked at in about 2 months though

[jaunty dawn]

you can get chainrasps pretty cheap on ebay still I think

[tepid stratus]

You're really banking on keeping those bladegheists alive and utilizing Olyander to get any combat work done

[spice flicker]

With the GoS and others providing revivals on the chainrasps.

With the rasps attempting to tarpit threats

I think that was the plan at least when I first designed the list

[thin ibex]

whats like a one sentence summary of how the orruks fight in aos?

[bright dove]

WAAAAAAGH

[thin ibex]

i notice their mechanic is very oriented towards building momentum with waaagh points

so are they a bit weaker in the start?

[jaunty dawn]

depends on the ork faction

[thin ibex]

ahhh

[bright dove]

But also, yeah, there's the three subfactions

[jaunty dawn]

ironjawz are get in the centre and hold it

super tough and super killy elite

[bright dove]

Ironjawz are also dead 'ard

[thin ibex]

powerhouses that might struggle more to establish map control?

[bright dove]

Brutes can just tell other units they can't contest

And 'Ardboyz are what they are

Kruleboyz like their sneakiness and brutal kunnin'

[thin ibex]

more numbers, high damage but more fragile?

[tepid stratus]

They don't struggle in so much as they only have a few turns of offensive gas in the tank before they have to get defensive

[thin ibex]

ahh i see

so you wanna take what you want fast

and then outlast?

[tepid stratus]

Basically

Kruleboyz rely on debuffs, ranged damage and some monsters to bully the opponent into submission instead of outright fighting them like IJ does. They have cheap chaff but most lists are pretty similar in model count to IJ

Bonesplittaz are likely getting axed and fully migrated to old world but for what it's worth they're the horde subfaction with shit saves and attacks but incredible mobility and a few tricks to spike damage where needed

[thin ibex]

honestly sounds like they have a place, mechanically

hordy orks feel like they should always be an option

[bright dove]

I agree there

[tepid stratus]

Big waaagh runs units from all 3 and takes 1 rule from each other faction and slaps waaagh points on top as a stacking buff mechanic. This unfortunately means it's objectively the superior choice having the most flexibility and access to basically all of the battle tactics making scoring secondaries a forgone conclusion

[bright dove]

Bonesplittaz have the real big downside of not being that good at surviving a fight

[tepid stratus]

Unfortunately they've shown no indication of wanting to further support the model line, axed their one monster option and aren't even allowed at some GW events. I think they're gonna axe the army altogether next edition and quietly repackage the kits for old world

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/11/fly-close-and-unleash-hell-with-a-tau-empire-detachment-full-of-battlesuits/ some people are gonna get real mad about this

[tepid stratus]

Sad but on the brightside it'll be easier for them to balance an Orruck book that's had the fat trimmed

[unreal cosmos]

by "this" I mean the crisis suit loadouts

[thin ibex]

man, not even allowed at some events? thats kinda wild

[bright dove]

It sure is

[spice flicker]

Hmm I wonder what else might be in store for the tau.

[thin ibex]

to be honest im kind of a fan

[spice flicker]

Also I can think of one tau player I've seen play who might enjoy the crisis suits getting up close in a dangerous spot for more damage potential.

[bright dove]

Mechs and guns, if history is any indication

[tepid stratus]

Can't say I'm surprised tbh. I'm expecting more things to get the wardogs treatment

[thin ibex]

I don't like there being a bajillion options, only for them all to be distilled to "Every single option is just CIBs"

having purpose built options 1. carves out the niches and 2. lets you effectively take more suitss

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah same here

[upper canopy]

"Imperial strategists have addressed this issue by spreading flexible tanks like the Leman Russ or Gladiator across different datasheets, and the T’au are nothing if not quick learners."

This line implies data sheets are diagetic

[unreal cosmos]

I would probably be annoyed if I'd ever gotten around to properly assembling guns for my team

[thin ibex]

mine are all magnetized atm

but i don't mind at all

am i a little dissappointed at the smaller opportuiunity to mix and match my kits? sure. But i like the direction its going in

[unreal cosmos]

also tbh I'm glad that these seem focused on "dual weapons and a support system," I always thought they looked a little too cluttered with 3-4 guns

[thin ibex]

i do imagine people will be mad that they cant just "all CIB's forever" anymore, but it s also surprising to see CIBs havent stuck around

maybe there will be a CIB specific group not shown off here

or group WITH some CIBs

[spice flicker]

I mean when I theorized tau list if I had a commander with crisis suits they had as much guns and shields as possible while the commander just took pretty much only guns.

If something could easily wipe a crisis suit squad out, I figured a commander would probably be wiped as well.

[junior robin]

not happy that customisable crisis suits will go to legends

[jaunty dawn]

just take 3 of each commander :)

[thin ibex]

mechanically i think its for the best, and i think the specific special unit rules are also good

[tepid stratus]

Tbh now each datasheet will have a rule that goes with its loadout instead of there only being one sheet with an obvious loadout for its rule

[thin ibex]

thats how i see it

[upper canopy]

Also means in your casual game that's 3 more Crisis suits

[jaunty dawn]

own ability and own points cost

[upper canopy]

12 Crisis suits

[thin ibex]

the only 2 weapons that effectively existed for high level play was CIB or missile pods, really, and mostly just CIB

at mid level and casual play, most of the weapons were usable but none measured up to the CIB

[jaunty dawn]

also now fusion blasters will actually do anything! yay

[spice flicker]

Hmm.... now I am curious about a "macross" list for tau or rather a missile spam list to be more specific

[thin ibex]

i also like the call outs to the classic lore configuration of crisis teams

[jaunty dawn]

especially granting that unit rule to the classic 4xfusion blaster coldstar 👀

[thin ibex]

yeah we'll see a new version of the coldstar torpedo going forward i think

[jaunty dawn]

just need a detachment that adds a fusion knives enhancement haha

[pastel rampart]

https://warhammer-conference.com/call-for-papers/

I...okay

[jaunty dawn]

wiLD

[runic swallow]

I mean you can probably do a good bit of sociology stuff

[upper bluff]

"Bolterporn - on the joys of hyperbole and excess"

[spice flicker]

It's in Germany and is this supposed to be a conference like in college when one would go somewhere and present thesis to others?

[thin ibex]

honestly also, keeping crisis suits magnetized lets you also decide what a squad will be after the fact

[spice flicker]

Which new type was associated with missiles?

[naive abyss]

Man I can't help but feel this'll end up having rancid vibes

[thin ibex]

the anti elite one

comes with missiles and plasma

im curious to what its special rule will be

to make it better at anti elite

better AP?

[pastel rampart]

Being hosted in Germany doesn't help that feeling either.

[thin ibex]

I wish there were a specific crisis team config that was like "You get a special effect for split firing" lol

[naive abyss]

Like the words academic and warhammer put together rarely go anywhere good outside of people who like catalog hobby history

[pastel rampart]

There's probably some thought-provoking stuff that could come out of it but also, nerds + academia = oh god no

[upper canopy]

Nerds + Academia you mean Academia

[spice flicker]

Are you secretly nick from play on tabletop? I mean split firing tau brings him to mind

[jaunty dawn]

the examples don't really inspire confidence

[thin ibex]

tbh, academia IS nerds

[upper canopy]

jinx

[jaunty dawn]

like it's like. "we want to make 40k serious academic business. here are some example thesis titles that sounds like jokes"

[thin ibex]

I LIKED a crisis suit with a gun for infantry, a gun for armor, and so on. Felt like they pilot planned to engage more than one thing

[naive abyss]

Like trying to engage with warhammers ideas academically is like deciding to juggle a loaded gun

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I don't agree with that necessarily

[naive abyss]

Sure it could result in something interesting but it's more likely gonna result in someone getting their foot shot

[spice flicker]

I mean I prefer jacks of all trade too tbh. It's why I like knights because you can take different ones that can handle most threats with the proper melee weapon to accompany thr gun.

[thin ibex]

the idea that a crisis suit would bring a single fusion gun because it solved things, rather than needing to bring 8 bajillion

is good to me

[naive abyss]

This sentiment does not include like hobby history to be clear

[spice flicker]

I did remember back in 9th theorycrafting a full squad of all flamer (plus shield generator) crisis squad that when I did test rolls took down a knight.

[naive abyss]

Hobby history is good and tbh important imo

[thin ibex]

mass flamers is often just a good time

can't miss

[jaunty dawn]

but I also think most interesting analysis probably isn't something gw is really gonna be comfortable aknowledging lol

actually idk if gw is involved here, doesn't look like it

[spice flicker]

Hopefully tau flamers get something nice

[jaunty dawn]

being cheap would go a long way

[naive abyss]

Tbh I honestly don't know how much analysis of like the setting can go anywhere without immediately skirting near weird vibes

[junior robin]

wouldn't surprise me if they squash the weapons stats together like combi weapons for marines

[naive abyss]

I can see discussion/analysis on hobby history and how it's evolved over time for sure though

[thin ibex]

well teh starscythe squad is the anti horde config

comes with a flamer and burstcannon from what i can tell

[jaunty dawn]

I doubt they'd be like "you can choose between flamer and burst cannon" and then not actually make that a mechanical choice

[thin ibex]

chances are gets some sort of bonus, like blast that works in engagement or s omething

main idea is itll have an anti horde special rule, and comes with the premier anti infantry/anti chaff weapons

[jaunty dawn]

especially since it's a pretty easy thing of choosing which range band you wanna do well in

[thin ibex]

blast being the only one that came to mind, but could be anything really

[spice flicker]

Would we finally have a way to table an unending swarm tyranid lost?

[thin ibex]

maybe sustained hits on burst cannons and... devastating wounds on flamers? no... thatd be a way to punch up

but would be cool to see sushits 2 on burst cannons

for the config

I wonder what you could do for the flamers...

[naive abyss]

Bring. Back. Templates.

[solemn gull]

Necromunda fixes this /s

[spice flicker]

Oh?

[jaunty dawn]

ossiarch dogs

flamers mostly got buffed by templates going away tbh

[pastel rampart]

Templates, while cool in concept, had serious issues with execution.

[jaunty dawn]

there's already games for doin templates

[naive abyss]

I wonder if dwarfs are gonna be shown for old world

[solemn gull]

I love template weapons on my juves because they have a 5+ Ballistics so being able to drop templates helps them greatly

[pastel rampart]

They were yet another thing on the table you had to put down that could slow the game down, sometimes for minutes at a time. If the center hole of the blast templates were used for anything you'd have people game the shit out of them, which could slow the game down and generate bad feelings because there was always at least ONE GUY who made it his mission to be the most annoying motherfucker imaginable with them.

[jaunty dawn]

also having to space people out sucked

[pastel rampart]

Also yeah that, it created a weird and toxic metagame where the optimal move was to space models out 2" exactly so at best maybe 3 models were hit.

[solemn gull]

is it toxic to do? that just sounds like strategy

[pastel rampart]

It caused arguments.

[solemn gull]

deciding if I want my unit to be split up with weaker cohesion but better blast odds or tight packed with good cohesion but suffer from blasts

[pastel rampart]

Like, a lot of them.

[jaunty dawn]

toxic to the general game state

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

[jaunty dawn]

plus the latter was like. not an advantage haha

if you lean into it as a game system it can be cool

[pastel rampart]

There was a period of 40k where it was all about minimizing risk, which while yes is technically strategic it was also really goddamn boring

[solemn gull]

depends on what type of play you're doing

[pastel rampart]

If everyone is doing it because it's the optimal move there's not really much play to do.

Mind, this was in the period of mid-late 4th through pretty much all of 5th. 6e changed a bunch of stuff and wasn't as prevalent because flyers changed the meta.

[solemn gull]

I meant Narrative, Open, or Competative

the three archetypes of play that GW bases the game around

[naive abyss]

Tbh daisy chain is lame no matter the context

[pastel rampart]

Didn't really exist at that point, because competitive was king.

You could make a case that narrative was pushed by GW up through even a good portion of 3rd with all the weird bespoke RPG-lite elements they added to it and their combat reports, it just did a really bad job of it and didn't explicitly state as such.

[spice flicker]

Macross Tau Missile Spam

1x enforcer battle suit, 4x missile pod w/ 2 shield drones
1x coldstar battle suit, high output burst cannon, 3x missile pod w/ 2 shield drones

2x breacher squads
1x strike squad
1x3 stealth suits

3x2 broadsides, high yield missile pods, 2x missile drones, weapon support systems, twin smart missile system each
2x3 crisis suits, 2x shield drones, 3x missile pods, shield generator
3x sky ray gunships, two twin smart missile systems

2x Devilfish, 2 twin smart missile system, 2 seeker missiles.

2000/2000 points

Not meant to be a seriously competitive list, just one to spam a metric ton of missiles each shooting phase.

Could probably replace the strike and stealth squad with a Hammerhead for more heavy firepower and smart missiles systems

[thin ibex]

ah but you could replace the stalthsuits with a pathfinder squad to let you spot for multiple units maybe

or replace the breachers with more stealth

[spice flicker]

Stealth is 60 while pathfinder is 90 unfortunately

How'd you do a missile spam tau army? Objective make a decent list while spamming as many missiles as possible. Volume of fire over quality of fire.

[mental birch]

Wait for codex

??

[tepid stratus]

This is still a problem in some 30k groups. Especially with terminators being the be all and end all this edition and most blast weapons that can reliably kill them being small templates you'll at best kill 2 terminators with a unit that costs more than the whole squad

[spice flicker]

Oh I know I was just trying to do a "one last hurrah" pre-codex. Nothing serious.

[floral herald]

There’s no trade off - it just takes longer to measure coherency

(There occasionally is when hiding behind terrain of limited size I suppose)

[jaunty dawn]

Riposte! has you get better morale in you pack in tight

and that's really fun

it also doesn't have templates but you still get hit more by explosions if you pack in

[floral herald]

I played orks in that edition so I was never that precise with the 2” but I also eyeballed it pretty well to get a 1.5+” gap on my models because it really did make a difference with large blasts

With good spacing it was usually 3-4 small blast hits and 4-6 large blast hits

Flame templates were… generally 7 if optimally placed and 4-5 normally

[jaunty dawn]

depending on range

torrent made optimal a lot more possible

[floral herald]

Yeah torrent made it easy for sure

[spice flicker]

Anyone play any other war games like say team yankee?

[jaunty dawn]

I'd like to branch out more

[spice flicker]

Same

[naive abyss]

#1161730220164911187

We talk about a few

I'm hoping trench crusade ends up good

[spice flicker]

Nice

[naive abyss]

Has a kick ass aesthetic and is skirmish scale

https://vxtwitter.com/TrenchCrusade/status/1762861247119380546?t=mgpWnKcgeuvtEK4aaeVgxw&s=19

https://vxtwitter.com/TrenchCrusade/status/1760325851193979296?t=rXATt1tKCH_T-bIBsQV9-w&s=19

[topaz elk]

Oh that goes so hard

[thin ibex]

Honestly, missile tau list wouldn't be super competitive, but it could totally work

It's a whole lot of firepower

Especially with a whole lot of army wide sustained hits

[naive abyss]

Posted some more info in #1161730220164911187

[topaz elk]

Oh nice

[spice flicker]

Missile tau also are able to spam a ton of indirect fire so making it safer to play dodgy and hiding.

Art made by asphodaelus

[mental birch]

I'm excited for the crisis party

[jaunty dawn]

speaking of missile tau

in like 6th edition when they revamped the broadside kit and added missile drones

also at that time drones formed a seperate unit because otherwise they were causing weird morale issues

and then drone controller's effect was all drones in your unit shot at the bs of the wielder

and commanders were independent characters, so could join a swarm of missile drones

so you could take 3x broadsides and they'd come with a squad of 6xmissile drones which you could then attach to your commander and get like 8 bs5(2+) missile pods

this wasn't a meta thing or anything afaik its just something I always wanted to do haha

[spice flicker]

I think some list ideas I'd like to brainstorm for different factions and see which works best with it is:

1. Oops all tanks (outside guard)
2. We have flamers for everyone
3. Missile Spam for days
4. WW1 Artillery recreation

[naive abyss]

I feel 4 the obvious answer is guard lol

[spice flicker]

Yeah I know

[jaunty dawn]

marine flamers is pretty cool rn

[spice flicker]

In Lore it'd be IW as well but not in 40k

[jaunty dawn]

you got flamer aggressors and infernus squads

the salamander characters buff flamers in squads they join

the not!salamander detachment does stuff too

[spice flicker]

Sisters can also do a lot of flamers but man I wish flamers were stronger.

[jaunty dawn]

sternguard box has the weird heavy flamer

[naive abyss]

Tbh I feel lov may be the second best for oops all tanks

[jaunty dawn]

and like two combi flamers modelling wise

plus the leviathan lieutenant

[naive abyss]

Like just as many heks as possible and then infantry shoved in them with left over points

[mental birch]

My theory is tac drone are gone

[jaunty dawn]

probably

I love how 'playable' tau vehicles are

like the engines go spinny

and the drones detach

and then they did the recon drone and it slots into a devilfish

it's so cool

if I was in charge of models at gw I would be fucked up and force everyone to make fun tanks

[solemn gull]

Be truly monsterous and make all the transports re-scaled to actually be able to fit the listed occupants

[jaunty dawn]

a lot of them actually do if you don't have bases and bow legs

but yeah modeled occupants like the manta has :)

there's a great bit in siege of vraks hold on

I love it when the like editorial voice gets dropped. its like oh hi the person writing this book : )

space marines are trickier though cause they're very wide as is

with shoulder pads n such

[thin ibex]

you know, its interesting that they called it retaliation cadre, not montka, think they skipped out on naming new war philosophies

wish they'd just made it montka and either made up or pulled other tau war philosophies

[tepid stratus]

It's possible montka will be a separate detachment and that retaliation is specifically for the crisis fans

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[valid brook]

Just sold a bunch of my old Tau stuff and now the news got me feelin unwise

Alas, my hubris (many such cases)

[jaunty dawn]

lemon russ rhubarb gulliman raisin dorn is this anything

[junior robin]

konrad Curry 🤔

[naive abyss]

Lion el'jammery

[junior robin]

Magnus the Red Delicious

[pastel rampart]

Pear-turabo.

[junior robin]

Loganberry Aurelian

[pastel rampart]

Doin' some simple barriers for the Mordheim Project.

4"x1", meant to give cover.

[jaunty dawn]

oooh

nice

good size

[pastel rampart]

I figure that's good enough for someone to move from one end to the other, what with average Mordheim move stat being 4". The idea is that it'll give cover but not total cover unless it's like, a skaven rat or dog or whatever.

Most are only about 1" tall too, and by the rules a model can move across 1" tall terrain without slowing down or making checks. This makes it useful to avoid fire and also continue to move sneakily while hidden but doesn't really protect from someone leaping over and smashing their head in with a rusty club.

I got six of these made which seems like a good number. Gonna make some other obstructing terrain that's more like 3"x3" as "area" terrain--piles of junk and such that's more difficult to move through and can make for more interesting/awkward spaces.

[past sphinx]

from what ive seen mordhiems major export must have been coffins, loads of them around mordheim

[pastel rampart]

Someone wipes away the word Mordheim on a sign to find "Yharnam" underneath

[pine matrix]

Either that or a very dedicated Cult of Morr

That'd be a neat warband theme for sure, a group of Morrites going around trying to give rites to whoever they can, or indeed the entire city