Warhammer and Such

[floral herald]

There's some elements to the piece like the extra knuckles or weird helmet fins or whatever is happening to the receiver of the bolter which caught my eye initially

[naive abyss]

i can nuke

[floral herald]

Nah not needed, it's not on you

I've just disappointed in Atrium Carceri

[naive abyss]

already done but yeah its a bummer

[floral herald]

Hive AI art detector is the one I trust and use the most

We actually once used it as a mod team to catch out someone posting AI art as non-AI art because it found the model used and we were able to look up the image lol

It sucks though since I really like cryo chamber

[naive abyss]

yeah

i just unsubbed and washed my hands of it honestly

move and live on and all that lol

[floral herald]

Oh my god I went to do the same and realized I never unsubbed from Destiny augh

I followed him way back when he just did like Starcraft stuff lol

[past sphinx]

the streamer?

[floral herald]

yeah

[past sphinx]

dudes had like 6 weird jukes

i try to live in the woods and not peak my head into those sorts of things

in the coming armageddon i believe warhammer miniatures and ammo will be the chosen trading commodities

[upper canopy]

I think the biggest giveaway is the sudden 2D on the bolter mag

[desert jay]

The first giveaway to me is the gibberish Japanese, the characters are almost all malformed

It's basically the same giveaway as malformed English text

[south axle]

Neurogaunts are cute, so had to go into the local GW to get the free one

This also got me last months mini, a FEC Cryptguard

[ebon forge]

Have you watched Space King?
Basically the beggining of it.

[ebon forge]

https://hivemoderation.com/ai-generated-content-detection thanks for the tip, king.

[jaunty dawn]

pretty much no notice whatsoever until the sunday before a preorder goes up

preorder windows are now all 2 weeks

goes up on saturday and released the saturday after next

we're kinda at the point where theyre revealing stuff faster than they put it out so a pretty huge backlog is building up

oh right the dark angels book is already up for preorder

the release date is on the store page lol

9th

[ebon forge]

Silly Billies, they call themselves Dark Angels
But they wear green! Some even bone-white!

[south axle]

THe bright exterior is to hide the darkness inside

[ebon forge]

Makes sense

[naive abyss]

That's only if you use that scheme

#og black and red 4life

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/05/the-rumour-engine-5th-march-2024/

i suspect this is a dorf thing of some kind lol

Im hoping for plastic dwarf Lord on shield for old world

[thin ibex]

Dark angels are green due to a printing fluke, aren't they? Like way way back they were meant to be in black, but due to a misprint or something they've been green ever since?

[south axle]

The Ravenwing are all black tho

[jaunty dawn]

this cover apparently

there was green tinge due to rendering black highlighted by yellow light

and then (maybe) eavy metal started painting them dark green as a result

[thin ibex]

That's the story I've heard anyway

[jaunty dawn]

hard to say what the exact details were

[naive abyss]

Correct hence og black and red lol

[verbal tangle]

I recall there not being a ton of 40k RPG player here, buuuuuuut- I've just released an update to Imperial Atomica, my nuclear warfare/postnuclear survival splatbook for Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Only War. This update is the result of two years of player feedback and playtesting, and includes everything from new Irradiated Environments, rules for nuclear fratricide and overpressure, and a ton of new character background packages. Enjoy!
https://konigstein.itch.io/imperial-atomica

[naive abyss]

https://david.ely.fm/2021/04/30/why-the-dark.html

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/51z0gdKA-P8?si=aV6Se2QY42Cbjh9f

Man this reminds me I'd love a men of iron remnants faction

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on the aquilon terminators?

[tepid stratus]

Tragically they are objectively worse than allarus terminators in both cost and utility

If they made an effort to make the weapons significantly different from what allarus bring they could have a use. Like making the gauntlets strength 12 so they're not just worse against vehicles or making the laser culverines a better TEQ killer to compete against the grenade launchers and spears

Or give them a rule that doesn't overlap with the allarus wound reroll. Give aquillon something like an AP bonus against certain targets or some buff the turn they deep strike would help differentiate them better

[spice flicker]

So they aren't really worth considering? Thought they had a cool model so dang.

[tepid stratus]

Yeah tragically they aren't worth it. Out of the FW stuff it's only the venatari and the grav tank that are really worth it. Maybe the saggitarum if you're really lacking the horde clearing

[ebon forge]

Oh btw be warned, is easy to fool the machine
First image has 1% grain extract with a medium frequency noise layer (also computer generated)

[floral herald]

That is good to know

[floral herald]

https://fxtwitter.com/VarianceHammer/status/1764840260150985026?s=20

Increasingly I think the Modern Operator Space Marine might actually be the most cogent satire 40k has done since adding body cameras to the new Arbites models

[upper canopy]

This is just what every primaris design looks like to me

[naive abyss]

I honestly feel like that's why hd2 lands so well in this regard

Like the enlistment ad alone is such a good mirroring of irl ones

[floral herald]

Some of the primaris heads are kind of like that

Helldivers is definitely more up to day (and going after the US much more than the UK)

I was rereading the Rogue Trader book recently after I was chatting online about how much early 40k was influenced by the Troubles happening at the time and it makes a lot of stuff click

[naive abyss]

Def

Like the thing of the marine arresting the punk is so telling tbh

[topaz elk]

Wait they do?

[jaunty dawn]

yup

[topaz elk]

Honestly that’s an extremely good choice

[topaz elk]

Also yah the thick low Mohawk is surprisingly common on primaris heads

Idk why

[floral herald]

I actually think its a pretty sensible choice

It looks martial and sort of "uncivilized" and fits snugly under a helmet

Which communicates a lot about space marines

Since they're nearly universally insular cannibalistic warrior cultists

[topaz elk]

That’s fair yah

Hair is already pretty uncommon on marines

So if they would have any it probably would be best to show it as like, a weird martial society hairdo

[floral herald]

A personal bugbear of mine is all the space wolf sculpts with really long hair

Like how to you wear a helmet fellas?

Do you just shave before fighting in a vacuum?

[topaz elk]

A really big man bun

[floral herald]

more space marines with chonmages

[topaz elk]

https://x.com/samoyedcore/status/1244034740530728960?s=46&t=fIUfY3FiRXkmKVbIBdHHIw

DEATHCORE DOGGY (@SAMOYEDCORE) on X

hey "nice" manbun haha it fuckin sucks you hipster asshole [he turns around and reveals he is a samurai from the tokugawa shogunate] oh fuck

Twitter · Mar 28, 2020, 10:52 PM

This with space wolves

[floral herald]

Space Wolves are lowkey the hipster space marines

[topaz elk]

They are maybe the most non codex complaint

[floral herald]

(I should perhaps clarify that I like space wolves a lot, just not the sculpts with big ass beards)

I think Black Templars might be honestly

But its close

[topaz elk]

I think it’s space wolves because like at least the black Templar get by with a technicality

Like the crusading rule is built into the codex

The space wolves just flagrantly break the rules

[floral herald]

Black Templars also don't use the company structure, the codex seniority path, or even do their own recruitment mostly

[topaz elk]

Wait don’t they just recruit like other chapters?

Going to planets and picking up the promising looking people?

[floral herald]

They mostly get pipelined the angry imperial fist recruits

And do some of their own recruiting but its not enough to replenish their numbers on its own

I think the space wolves break more notational rules than they do but the whole imperial fists legion I think actually undermines the codex harder

Since Dorn's geneseed is apparently really tempermental all of the sons of dorn kind of do communal legion scale recruiting across the whole successor system

Routed (mostly) through Phalanx

It's how the IF's have walked off 100%+ casualties like 4 times and just kept trucking

[solemn gull]

Space wolves are so metal with it

[topaz elk]

At that point they’re just bad at surviving

[solemn gull]

“Hey you 20 aspirants, your a claw now and you will never get reinforcements”

So by the time they become big hero veterans they have like 4 guys left

[floral herald]

The IFs have just institutionalized "I'm losing, nah WE losing" and don't retreat just cause as many casualties as possible on the way out

[topaz elk]

IF Librarians summon a particularly powerful warp entity used by a select few psykers of old terra, known as the divine general Mahoraga

[floral herald]

I think its sort of funny how rules wise the Dark Angels are usually the "stubborn, tenacious" space marines and the IFs are the "idk, they like bolters or something I guess" space marines when the Fists have a much much longer record of stubbornly fighting unwinnable battles to the last

[topaz elk]

That’s the Crimson’s Fist entire gimmick

[solemn gull]

Its what happened when you try to copy and paste the same dozen space marine gimmicks over and over again

[floral herald]

• 90% casualties in the Iron Cage
• 99% casualties in the War of the Beast
• 90% casualties putting down The Beheading (I think that was led by the IFs?)
• lost 4 companies fighting the Tau
• have lost so many chapter masters in combat that people aren't sure who leads the chapter anymore (as fans not in canon)
• etc

Admittedly the Beheading was not a full chapter deployment

[topaz elk]

Honestly, I’m not sure that can even be blamed on stubbornness and fighting to the last at that point

When your chapter has been wiped out that many times

I think it’s a skill issue personally

[floral herald]

ok

anyway, I bring this up as a showcase of how the IFs have basically the most robust recruiting infrastructure and unlike most chapters do it sort of communally between different chapters descended from them - which is I think possibly the biggest split from the goals of the codex

[topaz elk]

Also that is fair yah

[floral herald]

The Unforgiven are the other contender - but I think those chapters are usually rotationally different organizations they just share upper leadership at the same social club

[topaz elk]

The unforgiven?

[floral herald]

Collective term for the Dark Angels and their successors

[topaz elk]

Ohhh

[topaz elk]

Also the unforgiven at least have the excuse of only being formed for the very specific task of hunting the fallen

I’m pretty sure for day to day operations they’re still mostly independent

[floral herald]

Yeah they do their own stuff mostly but all the senior leadership is In On It

[topaz elk]

Yah actually do the grunts even know?

[floral herald]

Whereas the IFs are like "ok, we just got wiped out fighting the orks, every successor chapter needs to paint at least 100 of their marines yellow, we're bringing the Imperial Fists back y'all"

[topaz elk]

Like the average tactical squad in the DA

[topaz elk]

https://tenor.com/view/e3-peggle-jump-two-gif-13350703

IMPERIAL FISTS… 2!

Is there a space marine legion that didn’t break the codex in some way tbh?

Like at best I can say salamanders and raven guard but they physically did not have the numbers to break it after the heresy

[floral herald]

The first phase of his plan involved having the Chapter's of the Last Wall to each contribute a portion of their remaining strength to reestablish the Imperial Fists, which had been wiped out with the death of Koorland. Soon enough, 1,000 Battle-Brothers in Imperial Fists armor stood ready and Thane took their place as the new Chapter Master. The destruction of the original Imperial Fists was kept secret, and the citizens of Terra rejoiced to see their defenders on parade in full strength. However, the High Lords knew the truth and grew suspicious.
They literally just did this during the War of the Beast (from lexicanum)

[pastel rampart]

Average DA grunt doesn't know much. They might think they're hunting chaos marines, which depending on the Fallen isn't strictly wrong, but they're kept in the dark a lot of the time.

[topaz elk]

Huh

[floral herald]

Ultramarines mostly

Some of their successors are if anything more codex adherant than them especially now

[topaz elk]

Also you think at least a few inquisitors would be more suspicious when suddenly every imperial fists they knew was suddenly replaced by fresh battle brothers they had never heard of before

[topaz elk]

I thought they keep close ties with their successors?

[pastel rampart]

They do.

[floral herald]

They do but are pretty careful to make sure they're just being friendly and aren't like... exercising undue authority (mostly)

Up until recently their biggest codex deviation was the Tyrannic War Veteran units

[topaz elk]

They’re codex deviations?

[floral herald]

Yeah they're not in the book

It was a whole Thing and they never would have except that Cassius pushed for it really hard

And later spent some time in the Deathwatch to atone

[topaz elk]

I just assumed they were classified as normal veteran units just, with more tyrannid parts

[pastel rampart]

I think that's how they came to accept them as an "acceptable" codex deviation.

[floral herald]

Wait I'm misremembering - Cassius was in the deathwatch early on

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tyrannic_War_Veterans

[topaz elk]

Oh

Also it is kinda weird to me sending marines to Deathwatch for atonement

I get that fight people is a pretty common atonement method for the imperium

But Deathwatch is like, actively more elite then normal marines

[floral herald]

It's relatively common as a way to get troublesome battle bros out of the way for a while

[pastel rampart]

It's also symbolic in nature.

[soft willow]

"You wanna' fight Tyranids? I'll give you a fight with Tyranids." - Marneus Calgar probably.

[naive abyss]

I just like something different than the ocean of military cuts and cueballs lol

A thing the primarchs are also plagued with which is wild to me Ngl

[topaz elk]

I personally like the Blood Angels with the ballenciaga cut

[naive abyss]

Like I'll also fully admit I like beards

I feel the dorf simp thing does make that a bit obvious but still lol

[topaz elk]

I personally don’t mind but I also way prefer my marines helmeted so I don’t really care about hair in general

If I can help it all my marines will be covered head to toe in armor

[naive abyss]

Hell another point to chaos warriors vs csm is variety in heads

Most of my marines are helmeted

Just some characters may have theirs off

[floral herald]

There's degrees for it, like this guy doesn't make sense to me

[topaz elk]

I know it’s just how GW does highlights but man it really looks like the ends of his beards are knives

It looks surprisingly metallic

[floral herald]

This is fine though

[topaz elk]

Wait does that guy have an earring or is that just part of his terminator armor?

[naive abyss]

I mean for me it looks cool and like that's the end of the thought

[floral herald]

Pretty sure that's an earring

[topaz elk]

Honestly do like that

Idk I like marines with earrings

[naive abyss]

Like I appreciate the lov bearing their helmets in mind cuz that pushes their factions pragmatism vibe

When I see A wolf like that I just feel "yup that's a marine of the silly space Vikings"

[floral herald]

Earrings I'm sort of split on - on the one hand they're one of those things your really don't want to wear into a melee - and on the other space marines love impractical fashion choices

[naive abyss]

Which pushes the chapters vibe to the front

Which Idk if I'm actually making any sense lol

[topaz elk]

Nah I think it makes sense

Big thick braided beards go with their Viking theme

It’s their whole aesthetic

Fur and hair

[naive abyss]

Like they aren't a pragmatic group

Cuz lov have similar stuff but are super pragmatic

So while sharing DNA they look and feel very different from each other

[topaz elk]

Honestly the LOV are helped by their aesthetic pulling from like, actual space travel

Their stuff looks practical because it’s based off stuff actually made to travel space

[soft willow]

Bikers and NASA

[naive abyss]

And norse/celtic

[topaz elk]

Yah it’s like if NASA was formed by a circle of Druids

[naive abyss]

Lol

[floral herald]

It's very on theme but its idk, its a bugbear of mine for similar reasons as this tweet

[naive abyss]

DHSA. Dwarf Hold Space Agency

I mean fair for me how much that feeling comes into play depends on the faction

Like it'd bug me with lov cuz it runs counter to the vibe

With wolves I feel it runs with the vibe more or less lol

But I do ultimately get the feeling

[topaz elk]

I do think it depends on the wolves unit

Like for their basic tactical squad equivalent it could be a bit much

But for the character who’s a dude on top of a wolf chariot hitting people with an axe

Then imo it works

[floral herald]

Wolves have some internal tension between the wolfy wolf theme and the superlative killers thing

[topaz elk]

Yah honestly I’d take beards just to get away from space wolves as the wolf wolf wolves wolves of wolf planet

Anything to make them more Vikings and less wolves

[floral herald]

Its kinda both since space marines are usually fully armored except for the head

So its hard to show they're hairy otherwise

[naive abyss]

Give them norse style great helms

I beg

[soft willow]

There are no wolves on Fenris.

Which really makes you wonder why it's named that.

[naive abyss]

Tbh I like the 13th for this reason

[topaz elk]

It’s so dumb

Like at that point just commit!

[naive abyss]

That and the HH colors are great

[topaz elk]

Honestly yah the 13th are imo the best space wolves

[naive abyss]

Like both them and DA had better HH schemes imo

[topaz elk]

I prefer their color scheme and general vibe of like, millennia old veteran killers who are dedicated to nothing but wiping traitors off the galaxy

Sacrificing body and soul to enact their great vengeance

[naive abyss]

That and weird werewolf monsters

[floral herald]

13th company has always looked pretty doofy to me haha

[topaz elk]

I mean that’s because their models are decades old now I think

Their ideal is amazing

[pastel rampart]

The 13th Company models on release back in 3e looked pretty good.

https://vlkafenrykablog.files.wordpress.com/2022/01/pxl_20211217_180435275.jpg

[topaz elk]

God imagine them with like, modern models though

Partially mutated and with chaos parts

[floral herald]

Yeah they were solid sculpts, I just didn't like them that much then either haha

[pastel rampart]

https://vlkafenrykablog.wordpress.com/2023/05/08/wip-wulfen/ someone's been doing that

[floral herald]

Wolfman space marines are just not really my thing

[topaz elk]

[pastel rampart]

Most SW stuff has left me cold too, but I did like the 13th Company sculpts on release.

[floral herald]

I like the space wolves in general - I seriously considered picking them up in 5e

But cost and being perceived as a bandwagoner kind of headed that off haha

Since they were so fotm on release

[storm schooner]

Space Wolves are really cool, I like them because they have cavalry

and that still feels pretty unique in the Space Marine category

[floral herald]

It is pretty unique yeah

[topaz elk]

I’m gonna be honest I’m not a big SW fan

I don’t like how much it feels like they get away with and their whole overreliance on the wolf gimmick

[storm schooner]

I think it'd be cool if they did more with the "pretending to be stupid" thing

[bright dove]

Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf

[storm schooner]

As they're the only space marines with actual like smart decisions on who does jobs. EG first you are shock troops because that requires the least training

If you're really good at scouting, you become a scout

[ebon forge]

Having a space wolf in the rogue trader game was hilarious

"A BATTLE BROTHER HAS FALLEN!" Literally fucking howls like a wolf

[topaz elk]

I’m gonna be honest I don’t get the logic for sending trainees to be shock troops

[bright dove]

Turns out Bobby G doesn't always come up with the best ideas.

[floral herald]

This is sort of unrealistic itself tbf

[topaz elk]

Like that mostly just kills them

[floral herald]

Especially historically good shock troops are the hardest to train and often composed of veteran units

[topaz elk]

Even before they get a black carapace you’ve already put a lot of stuff into them

You ain’t getting it’s ll back

[bright dove]

The scout path means that you are mostly sending fresh soldiers out alone without much support to do scout/recon things.

[floral herald]

While skirmishers or scouts have an easier job because of not being on the crush of the line

[storm schooner]

Space Wolves when they're first turned into space marines are very aggressive and naturally good at melee

[topaz elk]

I mean scouts are sent out with veterans to keep an eye on them and they’re also generally together

[brittle salmon]

Making your recruits shock troops is a great way to get your recruits killed

[topaz elk]

I mean yah but melee and shock troops are different imo

[brittle salmon]

So no it's not very smart imo

[storm schooner]

making your recruits scouts is a great way to get bad scouting done

[topaz elk]

Like assault marines jobs isn’t to charge headfirst

[floral herald]

I think in modernity "scouts" have gained a connotation of like... deep behind enemy lines special operations stuff and that's generally not been in the case

[topaz elk]

Their job is to get into melee via other means

It’s why they have jump packs

[bright dove]

It doesn't help that this is exactly how 40k treats them.

[brittle salmon]

They're sheparded by scout veterans, they're not going out alone lol

[floral herald]

Since you also want people who can sort of quietly walk in the woods and keep their heads well enough to remember where they were when someone shot at them and they ran away

Also a space marine scout has about as much lifetime training and experience as a pretty intensely veteran soldier by normal standards

Since they're so long lived

[topaz elk]

Also scouts are helped by having camo cloaks, which is a good way to keep them alive before they have their armor

[pastel rampart]

Scouts get an insane amount of intense training so they're not going in all green or anything.

[solemn gull]

Space Wolves scouts are called Long Fangs and they are fairly elite

[topaz elk]

Also yah even with scouts and blood claws they’re both recruits, on a space marine time scale

[storm schooner]

Space Wolf heavy weapons are called Long Fangs, and they are the most veterans

[topaz elk]

So like decades of training already

Like I know it’s rules and not lore but they have that 3+ ballistic skill for a reason

[storm schooner]

Space Wolf scouts are specifically chosen as people who are good at scouting and put in like, a seperate training track. So all they do is scouting and they don't go into other squads

[junior robin]

I just realised that the wolf chariot and the nemesis dreadknight got the same base size, so maybe I can fit one into my "months of shame" veterans army

[solemn gull]

oh I thought they were the last of a blood claw pack

[topaz elk]

Nah Blood Claws are where all space wolves start out

[floral herald]

Wolves partially have their reversed progression system because new space wolves are fucking psychos and unsuitable for subtle deployment

[storm schooner]

nothings more shocking than a guy who is eating you

[floral herald]

Which I guess is similar to how Chaos Space Marines do their progression

[topaz elk]

Well that’s all marines

Space wolves aren’t special there

[floral herald]

Normal Legionary->Chosen->Terminator with a bunch of funny terminal sidegrades like Havoks or Obliterators

[storm schooner]

I thought only Space Wolves and Blood Angels did the whole go buckwild and Chompers the enemy

[topaz elk]

Nah all marines are cannibals

They eat people to get their memories

[floral herald]

Not all of them eat people in combat though

[topaz elk]

It’s how they obtain enemy intel

[bright dove]

Marines do have an organ to eat things and get memories.

But most of them wait for the shooting to stop to do that.

[floral herald]

But yeah pretty much all space marines have at least rituals about eating flesh

[topaz elk]

It’s very funny

[bright dove]

The Red Thirst and Wolves being wolves are different matters.

[floral herald]

Wolves and (some) blood angels get really sicko mode with it though

[solemn gull]

yeah most just go "Oh we didn't find any intel, give me the corpse with the most medals let's get this over with"

[topaz elk]

Most famously the flesh eaters

As the name implies

[bright dove]

Rip and tear until it is done and all that.

[floral herald]

It get really darkly funny when you play space marines in RPGs and people eventually realize that you don't need to take prisoners you can get the information other ways

[topaz elk]

Honestly it’d be very funny for someone new to 40K to play a space marine in a TTRPG and when they get a prisoner they wonder how to get intel out of them and get told of that particular enhancement

Even scouts can do it!

[solemn gull]

oh shit we have a scout marine in our WanG party....

[floral herald]

https://tenor.com/view/sickos-sicko-haha-yes-creeper-gif-25057805

[topaz elk]

It sounds like the time for a wonderful learning opportunity

[solemn gull]

esp considering my character saw space marines like superheros or star athletes as a kid

that will be a sad day for him

[topaz elk]

It sounds like it’ll be a great time

[solemn gull]

he's going to need to take down the giant Ultramarine poster when he gets back to his cell

[topaz elk]

What if the cannibalism is like, really cool though?

[junior robin]

really need to dig up my space wolf army to see if I can even fit a "looted dreadknight" into it, would probably need to get a thunderwolf bodyguard as well 🤔

[solemn gull]

as long as it passes the FDA regulations for corpse starch

if not it's probably "Heresy"

[topaz elk]

Also yah I guess with corpse starch being so common the vast majority of imperium characters are cannibals lol

[solemn gull]

I've really enjoyed reading through the gilead sector lore in the WanG books

all the little schisms and sub-factions that are entirely unique to these few planets

[floral herald]

It's a fun setting honestly

[storm schooner]

I do wonder, how much a person does a space marine need to eat to gain their memories

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/ForMacragge/status/1764745111781437691

[storm schooner]

and if its small enough could they get mega bombarded by memories if they ate a corpsestarch ration

[floral herald]

Specifically they need to eat the brain or nervous system to get much of anything

So I doublt they're gain anything from something as intensely processed as corpse starch

[pastel rampart]

It probably also depends on how fresh the corpse is and how much of the brain is left.

[solemn gull]

I like how they don’t try to fit all of 40k into it

[upper canopy]

Oh yeah I mean like

40k was born from Thatcherism

[uneven ember]

Templars recruit on their own too. They don't have a home world but they leave Chapter Keeps on any world they Crusade on and use them as logistics bases and recruitment centers.

& then of course instead of having a training Company every newbie gets assigned to a full member to learn by doing.

[uneven ember]

& yeah Maggie really is responsible for a lot of my favorite media. Her impact on British counterculture art of the 80s and 90s might be impossible to overstate

[storm schooner]

Her impact on all of Britain is hard to overstate

She did a lot of things which effective all of Britain, not just when she was PM but throughout her time at government

[floral herald]

Yeah - and iirc there's some crossover between the chapter keeps of the various chapters

There's something in one of the recent books about how the Fists and their successors generally need to maintain really robust recruitment networks because their geneseed doesn't take as easily so they run through more aspirants per neophyte

[upper canopy]

Thatcher and Reagen did fuck up the world really hard in the 80s

[naive abyss]

unrelated but i think I agree with the lov discords theory that this is grombridal for aos

[junior robin]

yeah I can see it.

[uneven ember]

The CoD Divorced Marine has me thinking that there's an American take on Orks that could really work

You have the gun obsession already. Ork bikers in Oakleys and bandanas.
Coal rolling and trukk nutz

||Proud Gitz||

[jaunty dawn]

oh definitely

also kommandos

are quite america 'nam

[floral herald]

Lotz Percenterz

[uneven ember]

Oat Keeperz (they stockpile grains)

[quaint compass]

Da Krew Gitz Gang

[runic swallow]

Da Milisha

[thin ibex]

Random poll but "unit you know isn't great mechanical but is super cool so you do/ would bring it anyway"

[quaint compass]

World Eater Hellbrute, mostly because I am proxying it with a Contemptor and the rule to fight/shoot whenever someone hits you is fucking cool

[jaunty dawn]

hmm

[jaunty dawn]

I guess my havoc squad? it's still pretty good though, just hurts a bit being the same cost as like lascannon spam

3x Heavy Bolter and a Reaper Chaincannon

Champ has a power fist and another gun that I haven't decided but might just be a bolter

[uneven ember]

I had a Sword Brethren squad forever because I dug the look
I hear they're good now which is cool

[jaunty dawn]

Oh hey wait

my Peak one

is Grey Hunters

with terminator pack leaders and a bunch of plasma

to be iron hands

[proud wing]

a lot of american economics already function on the "it works because everyone believes in it" principle

(though i suppose that's not america-specific)

[solemn gull]

scout snipers, gotta get those new recruits training

[proud wing]

i would never consider bringing a Necron list without the near-omnipotent being that's been caged and harnessed as a weapon

even if it's not actually that good for the point cost

[sour sequoia]

the model that isn't legally deployable in standard games but exists anyways is in fact the epitome of necron big dick energy

honestly it's like. Fine now that it gets two powers tbh

[upper bluff]

Skitaari Rangers. I'm a sucker for that specific look

(maybe they're great mechanically, idk I haven't had stunning results with them)

[thin ibex]

iirc the tesseract vault is actually pretty decent yeah

not as good as the monolith

but still good

[brittle salmon]

Yeah I don't think this is good for here

If you could remove it that'd be great

[ebon forge]

done, thank you

[brittle salmon]

[bright dove]

Kharn.

[thin ibex]

oh he's not?

i thought he was a staple on WE lists

[bright dove]

He is actually good, which may disqualify him.

But also he will swing at your guys when you least like it still.

Yes, 9 Str 7 AP -2 that hits on a 2+ for three damage each is

But every turn he's not killing something, you're taking that gamble that he's just going to kill a guy in the unit he's with.

[floral herald]

Honestly most of the units I like are good haha

It's just coincidence though

I guess daemon princes?

I think the models are badass and its cool how they're a rare CSM unit with no C:SM equivalent

But they're basically totally absent from comp play

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ5vyo-qHz4

[unreal cosmos]

https://vxtwitter.com/jetblackraider/status/1765098345784348995/photo/1

[upper bluff]

Fashion that is only slightly more unethical than real life

[thin ibex]

i feel like daemon princes are great units for casual chaos play, but fall short competetively

[floral herald]

Lords and dark communes are just so fuckin compelling

[junior summit]

wolves don't wear helmets very often

they've got wolfy super smell so they don't like helmets to the point of getting claustrophobia with one on

and yes this has bit them in the ass on void ops or if they get hit with bioweapons

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qeyaRN

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/g0m5km

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/g0m5km

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/obXQyB

[tired cairn]

Also when fighting on Prospero because the Thousands were psychically guiding bullets to headshot them lol

Which is pretty rude of them, ignoring genere conventions like that

[junior summit]

forgot about that part but yeah

SWs have been caught out in canon for not wearing helmets

[unreal cosmos]

https://artelw.com/Sir-Cay-p634723534

[naive abyss]

im assuming thats meant to be ezekiel lol

cool take on him tbh

gonna bookmark

@untold swallow

[unreal cosmos]

I like that he could easily be My Original Character too

[untold swallow]

oh my god an Ezekiel that isn't fucking blue for some reason

Or that I don't have to insist isn't Ezekiel because I want a hooded psyker warrior as my warlord

[unreal cosmos]

also has two separate winged helm options, lol

[uneven ember]

Dark Eldar are absolutely the funniest faction

Like there was some talk on this channel a few days ago about how having DEldar casually get sex reassignment surgery isn't a great representation of gender fluidity, which is valid, but also Cormorraugh is a society where "lizard face" might be in for a season so all the trendy elves pay to get a lizard face until it becomes passe and then they get their faces put back

[pulsar cairn]

[naive abyss]

cuz hes a librarian love

[pulsar cairn]

That's weird

[naive abyss]

librarians usually have blue armor lol

[pulsar cairn]

Not the librarian

[naive abyss]

?

[pulsar cairn]

The lizard face thing

[naive abyss]

fox im talking to rhi lol

[pulsar cairn]

Yeh

Im just pointing out im talking about the drukhari thing

[naive abyss]

fair

[untold swallow]

fair

I think the whole armor getting recolored thing is

dumb

[naive abyss]

i mean fair you dont have to do it

its no obeyed by all chapters

[bright dove]

Reject Codex Compliance.

[naive abyss]

but the logic is easy to identify on battlefield i think

gods know i wont follow it with my risen DA

all black across the board

[pastel rampart]

Easier for ork snipers to take out at 3 kilometers away too.

[naive abyss]

lol

[unreal cosmos]

I think it's good for the sake of heraldry and breaking up the monotony of a chapter

It's at least worth incorporating into a character's scheme imo, even if it's just on their cloth or a tilt shield or something

[bright dove]

I would totally do it for a pauldron.

[unreal cosmos]

I'm personally a fan of the ol' "one arm a different color"

[pulsar cairn]

Does the inquisition enforce codex compliance?

[floral herald]

no

[solemn gull]

Ah yes those famous ORK SN=I=PERS

[pulsar cairn]

So that's up to the chapters if they wanna follow it or nah

[solemn gull]

It is but the codex compliant chapters will give them shit about it

[uneven ember]

The Inquisition doesn't especially care except for the "1,000 Marines or less" part

People get really prickly about that one

[pulsar cairn]

I can see why

[floral herald]

It’s mostly up to the administratum and the space marine community

[uneven ember]

The Inquisition generally has a hard time getting enforcing much on Space Marines.
It's generally a lot smoother if they can get other Space Marines on board to help them work out whatever issue they might be having.

[bright dove]

Otherwise they wind up with another Space Wolves situation.

[uneven ember]

One of the things I really liked about FW's Badab War series
At the end of it the Inquisition is all ready to just sweep everything under the rug and unpersn everyone involved in the rebellion, but they've already invited a dozen Chapters over who aren't willing to just fuck off when dismissed so the Maelstrom Warders wind up getting to plead their case to a council of Chapter Masters

[bright dove]

This leads to several chapters getting to do penance, which is great.

[uneven ember]

Also love how the =][= was almost as harsh on the local nobility the Warders started the fight against as they were toward the rebels.
It's not so much "let the truth come to light" as it is "do not make me come over there"

[proud wing]

so something i've been thinking about since i started hyperfixating on warhammer a couple weeks ago:
do you think the franchise would be better or worse without the more overt fascist elements? It seems like most books don't have much interest in engaging with it as political satire, but are just "This cool action-packed science fiction adventure just happens to take place in Space Third Reich because that's how the setting is established"

[junior summit]

I would struggle to imagine the setting without it tbh

[bright dove]

I've read more than enough Warhammer books where just because our protagonist works for the Imperium and is the focus of our story doesn't mean they are a good person.

Like, arguably there's stuff out there like Storm of Iron where our protagonist is out and out a piece of shit.

I'm looking at you, Honsou

And most of the books aren't really acting like how the Imperium exists is something worth striving for.

[proud wing]

fair. but i feel like it could be grimdark without being quite so "our secret police will execute anyone who associates with anyone we consider Undesirable"

[bright dove]

Like, it actively sucks to live in the Imperium.

The people who look at what is going on in the setting as a good thing were already going to do that.

[brittle salmon]

Here's the thing - yeah, literally what Mourge just said

[junior summit]

but that's kinda part of the bit

the inquisition isn't a nice group of people

it's literally called the inquisition

[thin ibex]

at least for me a core element of warhammer 40k is that you don't need to look for silver linings, its all shit mostly

[brittle salmon]

Whatever elements you include in a story someone is going to like them for stupid, evil reasons

[junior summit]

every arm of the imperium being paranoid and insane is the point because the imperium is a crumbling empire holding on basically by inertia

gulliman woke up and went "holy fuck things got worse while I was asleep"

[uneven ember]

You might be able to make a Grim Darkness of the Far Future without being as explicitly fashy but it wouldn't be the same sort of expression of black humor by metalhead nerds in the 80s hopped up on 2000AD, anti-Thatcherism, and Dune.

And also hopped up on cocaine.

[brittle salmon]

Helldivers 2 is the most blatant criticism of authoritarianism and fascism that exists one step from blaring an air horn in your face and saying "SUPER EARTH ARE THE BAD GUYS!!"

People still unironically stan

[proud wing]

like i've seen pnet members in other channels say that 40K being so overtly fascist turns them off of the franchise

but not everything has to be for everyone

[uneven ember]

Yeah, I mean, it is fair.
& it does have some of the worst, dumbest fans in the world

[bright dove]

You also don't have to interact with the Imperium if you're doing the games.

[bright dove]

It is no worse than other fandoms. Source: Homestuck fan.

Every fandom inevtiably gets the weirdos.

[junior summit]

it is difficult to avoid interacting with the imperium one way or another

[proud wing]

but then how do you play with the lesbians with machine guns and power armor

[bright dove]

Eldar.

[proud wing]

damn u right

[bright dove]

Also, I would say that 40k isn't a setting you should take terribly seriously.

[proud wing]

yeah definitely fair

[bright dove]

gestures at the Orks as a whole, Resident Necron Collector, etc

[uneven ember]

"A space-orangutan built a palm-sized laser cannon for a guy in a Pilgrim hat to shoot a giant green football hooligan in the face with."

[bright dove]

Like, even with some of the serious stuff, we get funny things, like an assassin arriving very late thanks to warp travel and having to kill a few thousand people because of mission parameters changing.

[uneven ember]

"Space elves with guns that shoot ninja stars fight armored nuns supported by a tank that's also a pipe organ."

[bright dove]

Sisters of Battle crash cathedrals into planets.

[thin ibex]

The whole setting is rested on a massive amount of hyperbole, exaggeration, and so on, it's definitely not meant to be taken very seriously

[bright dove]

And the entire product very much points out that the Imperium doesn't actually work.

[thin ibex]

Yeah, a core assumption is that, much like the emperor, the Imperium simply persists, it does not succeed

Corpse God and all that

[bright dove]

It practically beats your head with that at all times, ye

The only people having an actually good time are the Orks.

[uneven ember]

ultimately, IMO
You can definitely make a wargame setting, even a very grim and dark wargame setting, without 40K-style space-fascism.
It wouldn't be recognizably 40K because "worst of all possible worlds" is kind of the basic assumption. Everything sucks forever, there is only war and fucking cool fights between cool space nonsense and you don't need to worry about good guys and bad guys because evryone is just the worst

It's kind of the fundamental joke of the setting, a bunch of people looking out at 80s Thatcherism and going "what if they just... win? Forever?" I feel like the joke still holds pretty well.
Take that away and what you're left with really isn't, to my mind, 40K. It might be good! But it's something else

[torn arrow]

Yeah to me 40k is solidly the uhhh

'To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. '

' Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.'

Without that you're sliding slowly into Vaguely Generic Military Sci Fi

[naive abyss]

im a weirdo and would love a unification wars game

i wanna see weird fucked up techno barbarians

i also would just love a men of iron faction

[thin ibex]

Thunder warrior mad max, emperor in spikes and leather vibes

Battling immortan Joe ass guys

[uneven ember]

WHAT A LOVELY DAY

but that's the beauty of 40K
I can play Battlefleet Gothic where you have city-ships fight battles where the objective is to fire off the Exterminatus Weapon and kill a planet
then I can have a gang of Necromunda where a dozen corner gangbangers stab each other with rusty knives

[thin ibex]

Did a "hideously mutated and corrupted" theme list

Suffers a bit with no delivery method for the possessed, but alas the land raider is not horribly corrupted and mutated

Also I have new respect for warp talons, because twin linked is honestly pretty high value

[upper canopy]

https://twitter.com/OculusImperia/status/1765217788631642222

Oculus Imperia (@OculusImperia) on X

Twitter · Mar 6, 2024, 3:28 AM

@floral herald

[floral herald]

Lmao

[storm schooner]

tbf, Tzeentch loves gold and blue

[topaz elk]

That’s an ace attorney cross examination

[storm schooner]

it could be a lesser known chaos legion in theory

[pastel rampart]

It's entirely possible Robby G took his long nap before they changed armor from red to blue.

[jaunty dawn]

I also don't know when he even learned tzeentch was a thing

[storm schooner]

He doesnt even know what a Tzeentch looks like

[pastel rampart]

Probably during the Heresy where half his brother and their legions went more than a little whacko.

[thin ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-math-math-cat-numbers-cat-funny-gif-13385485103134761656

[pastel rampart]

He takes in an insane amount of information so likely at some point he found out about the chaos gods, either from battle reports or just Emps actually...y'know, saying something.

[uneven ember]

Lorgar, what the fuck is an Argal Tal and why is it sending me a cease and desist?

[thin ibex]

"Did no one think to mention that he had one eye or bright red skin?"

[bright dove]

Wait. Does Bobby G know about the great TSons dusting?

[pastel rampart]

At this point, probably.

[topaz elk]

I feel like it’s fair to say unless that knowledge is known to like, one inquisitor who intends to keep it secret Guilliman probably knows tbh

Like the imperium is a bureaucratic mess but he’s been back long enough that any knowledge which he would have access to he probably has learned

[pastel rampart]

And also what's an inquisitor going to do, tell a primarch "that's classified"?

[uneven ember]

"Did no one tell you?"
"Fucking, I don't know, probably? There's been a lot going on in ten thousand years and most of it is very stupid."

[bright dove]

"ah, he probably doesn't need to care about the Tyrant Star in the Calixis sector"

[sweet solar]

i think it would be nice if the lore released in multiple books over multiple years gave us some kind of view of at least the sorts of knowledge available to effectivly the new leader/ruler of the imperium

if not the specific knowledge sure but just....more clear broad strokes

[thin ibex]

i mean heres the thing, the amount available wouldn't match the amount that he has actually read/absorbed/memorized, even if the amount he has memorized is mammoth in proportion.

[thin ibex]

there are MOUNTAINS of data stacks, literally, in the imperium. That doesnt translate to accessibility, readability, or distribution of information.

[uneven ember]

There are hollowed-out moons dedicated to archives that are rapidly running out of space!

[junior robin]

isnt there a planet in one of the rpgs that in like a civil war over storage space for paperwork?

[uneven ember]

There is!

[past sphinx]

Idk what name he's got but he's becoming a real dude

[pulsar cairn]

It me

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1765413548711145972?s=46&t=7e1ApQbqRukWQARisQg8Rg

[thin ibex]

I'm back to wishing the tau had a hover flier

I would love to have a big ass air support drone maybe, or hovering gunship

[valid brook]

Bring back the Orca you fuckin cowards

Truly one of the medium-large FW kits of all time

[upper canopy]

Give Manta the hover rule

[spice flicker]

I thought were were talking about Tau not the GDI.

[valid brook]

Why not both? Brown armor, blue lasers, hover vics

Same hat

[spice flicker]

I mean I did have a list somewhere of tau units you can use as proxy gdi units from tiberium sun and tiberium wars.

[oak fog]

Hello

40k X C&C would be a hell of a cross-over

[spice flicker]

Crisis suits≈Zone troopers/raiders
Hammerhead≈hover Predator Tanks
Stormsurge/riptide≈Titans
Tau'nar≈giant Juggernauts
Pathfinder≈sniper teams
Devilfish≈APC
Ghostkeel≈Wolverines
Skyray≈slingshots

The list I made a long time ago (few months back)

[oak fog]

I think stealth suits would make better zone troopers

Maybe

And breachers could be grenadiers

[spice flicker]

Zone troopers are supposed to be heavy duty

[oak fog]

Either way I think it could work

Also can longstrike be a mammoth tank

The better question is who would be the brotherhood

[spice flicker]

GSC

[oak fog]

Yea that’d work

[spice flicker]

Already have an arsenal including bikes, saboteurs, cultists, infantry than can spam flamers, kill something and it just comes back, and units that look more rag tag than uniformed half the time.

Soviets would the guard

Idk about allies

[oak fog]

Stealth+flamethrowers+funky body experiments+tiberium=NOD

[oak fog]

Votann?

[spice flicker]

The actual mammoth tank from HH works as the mammoth/apocalypse tank. It's called the Falchion/Mammoth

Nah they wouldn't work for the allies.

[oak fog]

Yea they need cryotech and timey wimey BS

[spice flicker]

Falchion

[oak fog]

Ow that looks like it would hurt

[spice flicker]

If I ever do a tau army it will definitely be painted like GDI and maybe kitbashed a little too

[spice flicker]

My totally not Tau but really GDI army

1x mammoth tank (longstrike)
1x commando (commander in coldstar battle suit
2x squad leaders (Cadre fireblades)

2x10 grenadier (breachers)
1x10 infantry (strike team)

1x10 sniper team (pathfinders)
2x3 stealth teams (stealth suits)

2x2 titans (broadsides)
1x6 zone troopers (crisis suits)
1x wolverine (ghostkeel)
1x predator tank (Hammerhead

2x APC (devilfish)

2000/2000 points

[mental birch]

Looks halfway to competetive

[spice flicker]

Breachers+Cadre in the devilfish, stealth suits, devilfish, strike squad, and pathfinders serving as spotters for the suits and hammerheads.

[jaunty dawn]

I love this art

it's like the artist was told abt the mushroom thing and ran with it

altho I think this is actually one of the long term artists and he just went wild on this one

[pastel rampart]

Oh he's done 40k art before.

And lots of Mutant Chronicles stuff too, if I'm right in recognizing the style.

Ayup, Paul Bonner.

[jaunty dawn]

mm

did a lot of the really early ork art

[pastel rampart]

Yeah. Really helped cement the visual style of the orks as being weird and goofy.

[jaunty dawn]

the rendering here is just so neat

[naive abyss]

somewhat random but im always a sucker of a splash of pink on models i find

dorfs with ruddish noses

pink nose tips for gobos

pink lips on orks

etc

[jaunty dawn]

my nids have pink eyes and tongues

very satisfying

[uneven ember]

I feel like the Geidi Prime shots in the latest Dune could be a pretty cool basis for Commorragh imagery

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/IronWarriors/comments/1b86sls/trench_cleaning_service_new_members/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[uneven ember]

ooohh I dig that

[naive abyss]

ye

[uneven ember]

especially the guy with the hazard stripes on his chest
Really leaning into it imo

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/1b6b1su/three_sagitaurs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

i am endlessly struck by how much better lov stuff looks with some grime and wear lol

[pastel rampart]

https://fxtwitter.com/PatsoCatso/status/1765473775926096025

[spice flicker]

Thoughts on taking multiple parasite of mortrex in a list?

Thinking endless swarm

[thin ibex]

Here's a silly one for yall

Air power

Maybe a marauder destroyer would be better

[uneven ember]

I do kinda love the CAS style on the Destroyer

no real opinion on who's better I just dig the vibe

[thin ibex]

Gotta survive round 1, then round 2 will be lit. Hopefully

[runic swallow]

Forward air observer list lol

[thin ibex]

Definitely not competitive, but might be fun to play

All that air power has no power to control objectives so those ground pounders gotta survive

[runic swallow]

Look, it works for America, why not 40k?

[thin ibex]

I went with death korp on the assumption that they'd last longer, but I think cadians might be good, to hold after they die

[ebon forge]

Why I want that to be a thing now.
Why I want to see Magnus breakdown on the court stand?

[ebon forge]

.
Peter Turbo as Manfred?

[mental birch]

We already have a lawyer and a judge miniature

[proud wing]

isn't that just the council of nikea

[ebon forge]

Exactly

Franz would actually look good as a SoB...

[thin ibex]

In grim future of the 41st millennium there is only litigation

[mental birch]

NGL Nikea just brings to mind the bit about Saint Nicholas punching someone

[jaunty dawn]

oh shit

it's meduson the son of medusa

he was adopted but he's no less valid

secret mechandendrite

[past sphinx]

is that boy aiming

what a lack of faith

the bolter looks

awkward?

in a rad way

[jaunty dawn]

reminds me of this pose on this techmarine

[past sphinx]

AH the grip is all the way to the rear

unbalances the design

[jaunty dawn]

oh that is weird

[thin ibex]

negative stock bolters

[jaunty dawn]

fuck happened there

[thin ibex]

full pistol grip bolters

[jaunty dawn]

this is just what phobos bolters look like now

as opposed to this

it was always kind there but I think the new design and his pose has exaggerated it further

[past sphinx]

its not so bad looking with two hands i think its only super noticeable with one hand

[ebon forge]

Looks like an homemade brazillian illegal gun
I like it

[thin ibex]

hmm

army list ideas are thin

[ebon forge]

Budget, non horde, but strong, 10e AdMech

[rocky shale]

Budget admech oof

Impossible list

[bright dove]

Sons of Behamat list?

[ebon forge]

Ork racers list?

[pulsar cairn]

Stop telling them our secrets >:c

[ebon forge]

They just keep stealing from us! Is not my fault!

[ebon forge]

Are the Gargant psudo knights (40k)?

I know their models can be BIG

[jaunty dawn]

yup

[upper canopy]

Gargants are KEQ I think yeah

I actually think they're Titans equivilent

ANd Morka/Gorkanauts are the KEQ

[jaunty dawn]

aos gargants

[ebon forge]

Interesting

[thin ibex]

Good do you play gargants really, just move charge smash?

[jaunty dawn]

sons of behemat is like full 40k knights where you get a bunch of big giants (mega-gargants) and even more small giants (mancrushers)

and then each grand alliance has a particular giant they can bring as an ally

[upper canopy]

Instead of holding objectives you just fucking

punt them

away from the enemy

[ebon forge]

sounds fun

[thin ibex]

Does feel like I just need to beat the crap out of the other army

[jaunty dawn]

@thin ibex have you ever made lists based on the three phases tyranids get in crusade

[thin ibex]

Oh that's fun

Gotta remember, it's the vanguard, the invasion, and then the consumption right?

I'll do a 1k, 3k, then 2k

[jaunty dawn]

yup :3

[jaunty dawn]

Love how all the tyrants show up for the invasion

[jaunty dawn]

I just think dracosans are neat

sad the malcador defender isnt in heresy

like a wedge formation of 3 dracosans and 2 malcadors, command dracosan and the malcadors have demolisher cannons

and then there's two squads of battle cannon leman russes and a tercio of velatris in auroxen

[naive abyss]

https://twitter.com/LGBTQ_Warhammer/status/1765824650011894114

Pridehammer (@LGBTQ_Warhammer) on X

I offer up this meme i stole to make up for missing WIP Wednesday

(Feel free to post your WIPS here!!)

Twitter · Mar 7, 2024, 7:39 PM

[untold swallow]

Oh my god lmao

[bright dove]

You know what this means. We have to throw milk at the Golden Throne.

[still warren]

Gonna throw a milkshake at the emperor

[upper bluff]

Giving him tummy rumbles

[brittle salmon]

The boring answer is he can just biomancy himself to get the gene

But it's much funnier this way

[proud wing]

mmm

i think there's a strong argument that with how abnormal/powerful he is, his body couldn't be biomanced

[upper bluff]

Stupid space wizard god

He should love cheese but have it hurt to eat it

Just like the rest of us

[brittle salmon]

Why not, though? His psychic ability is the root of his powers, and frankly biomancy is likely the whole reason he's immortal

[proud wing]

he's a Perpetual tho

[brittle salmon]

Do you have a source on that?

[proud wing]

every wiki/forum discussion on the first page of search results says he is, though this warhammer community post is the only direct source i saw

oh yeah and in the new Lion book, the antagonist believed that since the Emperor is a perpetual, taking him off the throne's life support and letting him "die" would make him regenerate as a living dude again

but Lion stopped him so it's ambiguous whether that's true

though i think it's a really cool idea

[brittle salmon]

Weird

Anyway, fair enoguh

There's no evidence Biomancy wouldn't work on him though

[proud wing]

fair

[past sphinx]

my man simply takes lactaid

[proud wing]

dairy in his IV drip is actually why he's unable to regenerate himself

the moment tech priests find the formula for lactaid he'll be back in action

[naive abyss]

every time he farted a warp storm out was a bored bilogis just yeeting some cheese in his mouth

new head canon

[topaz elk]

You know I think I like The Last Church just, not because of the reasons it was written for

Like the actual theological debate is theology 101

Literal highschool shit

What I like about it is how utterly petty it makes the emperor

Him, this 10 foot tall giant, the greatest psyker in the history of mankind, with access to the greatest army on earth walks into this lone priest’s church, heckles him about his religion, talks down to him the entire time, then burns the place down even after he converts to his way of thinking

He didn’t actually give a shit about this priest, he just wanted to win a petty argument with a man who would probably be dead of heart failure in the coming days anyway

[past sphinx]

i really like the last church because the emperor is so absolutely laid bare as a tyrant

someone who cannot understand the people he thinks only he can rule

[proud wing]

iirc the emperor isn't actually 10 feet tall

[past sphinx]

he can barely empathize with the man because he is so absolutely convinced that he is right

[proud wing]

there was a time a Blank looked at him and just saw a normal middle eastern dude

meaning he just uses his powers to look cool

[topaz elk]

Holy shit that’s so funny

Dude can’t even let others be taller then him

[topaz elk]

Yah like, the priest is extremely polite the entire time even as emps tears down his beliefs bit by bit

But he just can’t stop trying to prove he’s right

[past sphinx]

he self righteous belief that he is ultimately correct in his position and is completely unwilling to bend to others is ultimately what causes his imperiums decay

he uses men like tools because he is right

[topaz elk]

And he’s probably not even correct!

[past sphinx]

you might even say he was wrong

[topaz elk]

Like we have the Birds Eye view of the setting but his fundamental notion that humans can exist without the warp is wrong

His plan of making humanity a super race of psykers to eternally rule the universe cannot work without the warp and therefore warp entities

Like the chaos gods

[naive abyss]

as ive said before literally sigmars, even before aos, plan made more sense lol

"maybe if i hit enough chaos shit with this hammer itll go away for a bit"

and like in aos sigmar is like sorta hilariously more competent as a ruler?

even though his whole thing was being a dumb war god with a hammer

[past sphinx]

Sigmar also ultimately actually ascended

[naive abyss]

seemingly without aiming to either lol

[past sphinx]

yeah the whole dark king buiness

tho i still believe the imperium as a whole was building a god machine

[naive abyss]

the fucker just kept hitting shit with a hammer long enough that he became a god

also sigmar especially in fantas was dripped out tbh

[proud wing]

yeah a plan like that is just a fantasy

a fantasy about a hammer made for war

a warhammer fantasy, if you will

[naive abyss]

aka simar wins the warhammer contest every year forever against emps cuz he actually uses a bloody hammer lol

[naive abyss]

this just reminds me of probably my fave warhammer meme ever that doesnt involve dorfs lol

if only due to how hilariously accurate it is imo

[past sphinx]

Based archeon knowing is fate and praying to sigmar to interfere on his behalf vs cringe horus getting duped by the most evil man in the world

[topaz elk]

Helps that in that setting the chaos gods are just gods and not like, fundamental aspects of existence

Like in 40K even if they specifically don’t exist, there needs to be similar warp entities to represent thoughts on those ideas

Sigmar also like, was a good ruler in life too

Emps was a warlord who just tried conquering the galaxy as fast as possible because despite his literal immortality he wanted to do everything in like less then a decade for some reason

[naive abyss]

well the great crusade took centuries that much ill at least acknowledge

[naive abyss]

i mean what the gods represent is the same in both settings

its just 40k decided to get rid of all the complexity in the realm of chaos lol

[past sphinx]

terra took about 250 to 800 years to unify, the great crusade lasts all of 200 years

[naive abyss]

and most of the non chaos gods

[naive abyss]

oh for sure it was a sprint

like in no way am i denying that to be clear lol

[upper canopy]

I mean there's a difference in the like

In Fantasy, the Chaos are technically just dudes you could go out and fight and kill like the other ones are.

In 40k, the Chaos gods are the indisputiable rulers of reality.

[naive abyss]

i mean thats because all the other gods are more or less dead

[past sphinx]

Malice slander

hes still got shooters out in this hood

[naive abyss]

lol

[past sphinx]

i had really hoped for psychic awakening to really kick off some warp weirdness with strange gods and odd units

but uhh

that whole edition of plot kind stopped dead

wheres my warp powered ethereals GW?

i was promised an awkening and we didnt even get a new guard psi unit

[past sphinx]

Kodiak, the lost preist of the true machine

[ebon forge]

honestly at this point 40k for me in terms of lore and the tabletop are disassosiated so hard.
Like
The Skitarii snipers are suppose to be better snipers than ever astartes
but they hit on a 4+ on the tabletop

And apparently the deathguard lost their resiliency perks that for the longest time was their identity

[cinder wraith]

realm of battle boards - OOP, expensive to buy and ship

suddenly i had someone local selling it

i win

[ebon forge]

nice!

[ebon forge]

Not armored enough Landsmines it

[ebon forge]

Want armored vehicle? Ask an ORK
then ask a grot to test drive it to see if it don't explode

[mental birch]

GW: Get farsight instead

[south axle]

Mines designed by Land?

[ebon forge]

No, it was found by Land's cousin
Mines

But he found WITH Land, so they desided with the name landmine

[naive abyss]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/08/dawnbringer-chronicles-xxiii-a-murder-in-catacomb-12/

[thin ibex]

In fairness, a lot of lore for units in the game hypes them up in their own codex, often at the expense of astartes truly elite status.

Also, for DG, they're apparently still pretty tough, they just don't get a universal additional rule for it

[jaunty dawn]

all the skitarii sniper squads still hit on a 3+ or better anyway

it's just heavy got reversed from a penalty for moving to a buff for not moving

40k is definitely a lot less simulationist in philosophy now but ye

[tired cairn]

DG are +1 toughness vs other space marines

[jaunty dawn]

yup

[tired cairn]

Skitarii can get across the board Heavy. But their default 4+ is a sore point for people who play them lol

[jaunty dawn]

rangers just have heavy

[ebon forge]

Yeah, admech players are not happy with 10th
So is Deathguards

[jaunty dawn]

as do jezzail dragoons and skatros

now they used to not be heavy at all and relentless even in 7th ed

but rangers have not gotten worse at hitting really

compared to 9th

other than doctrinas being nerfed I guess

[tired cairn]

They don't without the Imperative

[jaunty dawn]

they

dont

I was looking at the wrong weapon lol

mb

[tired cairn]

Skratos do hit on 3+ though

[jaunty dawn]

every time I think I understand how much of a mess 10e admech is I find something that makes it worse

[tired cairn]

But it's funny to me that a bunch of Tyranids are better at shooting lol

[proud wing]

good old "everything's canon, not everything is true"

the admech have always been very pompous to the point of delusion, i could see them convincing themselves their 4+ is actually better than astartes

[tired cairn]

They used to be 3+

[thin ibex]

Sometimes I laugh cause people be like "tau is the shooting army" and they're right, but we shoot at 4+ pretty much across the board. Spotting mechanic gets us to 3+ in most cases

[ebon forge]

A space marine said that tho

[bright dove]

Hey, you know who else is a shooting army? The Imperial Guard. 😛

[tired cairn]

GW changed a few factions to be conditionally 3+ (tau, admech and voltann)

[jaunty dawn]

I mean the thing is that Kasrkin and Scions are still 3+ and that's the actual point of comparison for Skitarii

tau have never been bs3+

[bright dove]

They've just had good guns, ye

[jaunty dawn]

apart from a couple units like when you could take a noob commander

[ebon forge]

And don't care for melee glory

[jaunty dawn]

or wargear that went missing like targeting arrays on hammerheads

[bright dove]

Something something set bayonets

[thin ibex]

I think a component of "reduced lethality" as an edition goal, does mean that units have to hit and wound less often

[jaunty dawn]

but also it's important that tau are bs4 because their whole thing is like what if alien guard who actually equipped their soldiers better and used combined arms

[bright dove]

RIP Solar Auxila

[thin ibex]

Gotta remember, Imperium sabotages themselves on purpose on case anyone goes rebel

[bright dove]

The after-effects of the Horus Heresy just keep happening.

[thin ibex]

And will even assassinate non rebel leaders who are too popular

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah skitarii were meant to be quality over quantity to show how admech treats their standing army differently but no the points per pound just continues to plummet

[tired cairn]

Skitarii dedicated melee units being WS 4+ is also pretty silly. I think someone missed the memo that Imperatives don't apply to melee

[jaunty dawn]

although most of their weapons lore are absolutely codex aggrandising. literally every one is a ridiculous death beam or whatever

[tired cairn]

cybernetics should be bonus roughness and not an invulnerable save as well

[jaunty dawn]

it should be a feel no pain back in my day grumble grumble

[bright dove]

Necron Flayer. 😛

[jaunty dawn]

but no only space marines get real bionics

even if you do have to take the actual IH character and only get it on one squad etc etc

[thin ibex]

AdMech: "and for my next weapon-"

Everyone else: "A secret weapon with closely guarded technology from the before times, that retroactively shoots the target back through time as a baby and never needs ammo?"

[ebon forge]

WHAT

[thin ibex]

Oh I just made that up

Feels the right amount of rediculous

For a basic infantry weapon

[jaunty dawn]

I'd believe it

[ebon forge]

after hearing about that forgotten admech ship with limited time travel i don't doubt anything

[jaunty dawn]

they have guns powered by super batteries that were charged during the daot

that the admech just has huge stockpiles of

[thin ibex]

They're probably energizer

[bright dove]

Hey, time travel isn't special. Anyone can do it

[thin ibex]

"Time knife, yes everyone's seen the time knife"

[ebon forge]

Big E would sure wish to knew how

[bright dove]

It's just warp travel sometimes.

Or being a particularly driven Ork

[ebon forge]

That coming from a Mekboy fills me with fear

[jaunty dawn]

"These weapons fire specialized bullets over long distances that cause all potential energy of the target to burn out in a killing blast of electric force." galvanic rifles

[thin ibex]

Meanwhile "this is a gun" imperial guard

[bright dove]

Look, never forget you can recharge a lasgun cell by chucking it in a fire for a while.

[proud wing]

*a trillion guns

[thin ibex]

Or "this sniper just shoots a shuriken and is otherwise the same" aeldari

[jaunty dawn]

"With its main weapon mechanism, it is able to fire rapid bursts of low velocity razor-edged flechettes, or with its secondary discharger, attack concealed targets with retina-burning ignis charges. Some of these weapons are upgraded with a high-intensity capacitor which compresses the galvanic charge to fire an armour-piercing inert slug-shot at supersonic velocity. This complex but flexible weapon allows the Peltasts to engage a wide variety of enemy targets." The peltasts gun is actually pretty reasonable as hitech coilgun thing

rip forgeworld :(

[ebon forge]

super-hyper-nano-special-bone-shurikens*

[jaunty dawn]

like it's very SPIW inspired

[proud wing]

the aeldari do have that gun that creates a micro opening to the warp

which is definitely the single coolest weapon concept in the game

[bright dove]

D-Guns, yes.

[jaunty dawn]

da gunzzz

[ebon forge]

Nu-huh
The grot-shitter-teleporter is da bezt

[thin ibex]

I would love if like necron just hypocritically commented on the galvanic rifle by going "you're trying too hard"

And not commenting on how every weapon they have is gauss

[bright dove]

The grot-teleporta is pretty great.

[thin ibex]

Honestly yeah the grot gun is probably my favorite

Back in 8th I got lucky and one rounded a flying hive tyrant

[jaunty dawn]

Arc weapons are the ones with Permacapacitors for ammo

[thin ibex]

Also orks v admech is a great match up because orks just don't care

About the tech

[ebon forge]

Look how much fun the grot is having! 😄

[thin ibex]

So when admech tries to reveal and aggrandize today's relic of ancient power, the orks will shoot a grot into it because it's funny

[jaunty dawn]

admech and orks are the same admech just pretends they understand more

[ebon forge]

Teleports a Stompa right on your doorsteps
Mind-breaking the admech nerds when it can still fire

[jaunty dawn]

like really once you get to the stuff admech keeps to themselves it's just as ridiculous it just has a cleaner aesthetic

[ebon forge]

Brutal Kunnin' is so fun

[thin ibex]

Admech also be like "look at all these cool guns" and then also "we have these robots completely dedicated to punching shit in the face"

[proud wing]

i think the funniest non-ork lore moment was when an admech officer heard a rumor the leagues of votan had a bunch of preserved, functional ancient tech. so he went with an embassy to check out one of their ships, and it was just a complete shitshow. There was a bunch of stuff held together with duct tape, one guy was pedalling by the engine to power it, the pilot was literally banging rocks together saying it controlled the ship. so the admech thought "oh ok, these guys are just idiots. this is a waste of time." then the moment the admech left, they clean up, shut off the holograms, and go back to normal.

[jaunty dawn]

pff

[thin ibex]

Amazing

Kin draw straws to see who gets to be the banging rocks together guy

[unreal cosmos]

What's that from?

[proud wing]

being mentioned in a lore video i saw

i'll see if i can find what book it was

[naive abyss]

I think I know the video

That's not actual canon if memory serves it was them joking about how they keep their secrets

https://youtu.be/vzyYh5baFYg?si=XbxsS2Ct8iS64N-j

Pretty sure it's from this vid

[proud wing]

o

[naive abyss]

But I am going off of memory so take with some salt

[ebon forge]

Sorry but
God
I love ork aesthetic os much
LOOK AT HIM

the new box is so good

[soft willow]

I don't remember seeing that bit of Votann lore anywhere so it's likely not canon.

[thin ibex]

is that guy meant to be a big mek in mega armor?

[jaunty dawn]

just a new big mek

if it replaces kff big mek I will riot

I doubt it will replace shokk attack gun big mek though

[thin ibex]

whats the current kff one look like?

[jaunty dawn]

he's got a traktor gun or kustom mega blasta, and a shokk boosta backpack

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/orks-big-mek-with-kustom-force-field-2021?queryID=2d7ccfcc91eb0b8d6489c4a3c8dde926

he's resin

but uh

[thin ibex]

ohh

[jaunty dawn]

he actually looks like a mek first and not a warboss who is a mek lol

I think the megamek can take a tellyport blasta or a kff so it wouldn't be going entirely...which just feels like even more justification that gw would use to retire a model without actually replacing it lol

[ebon forge]

I actually grew to like the stompa, the new one made me like it a lot more

Originally I though it was the ugliest Ork thing but now
yeah
Good stuff.

[floral herald]

They’re still really tough they just do it with high toughness values and such not special rules (mostly, Morty still gets special rules for example)

[ebon forge]

oh so is neat

[spice flicker]

I've never really been able to bring myself around to liking orks tbh.

I mean I can see why they appeal to some but they never really clicked for me as a faction that I like.

[floral herald]

My first army was orks

I still really like them but I think the suffer some from being the most memed faction

[naive abyss]

I like them and all the silly

I just we had a Gobo faction in 40k with a range

Either way I love greenskin vs dorf in ever gw setting Ngl

My overall fave may be gloomspite though

[ebon forge]

Flanderisation?

[floral herald]

Not quite, more just people kind of exaggerating stuff like the psychic field and such

[ebon forge]

I think Orks, lore wise, are a bit split
Brutal Kunnin' side and Ghazghkull Thraka

[ebon forge]

oh yeah absolutely
but hey
At least you aren't a T'au player

My heart goes to them

[floral herald]

Huh?

[topaz elk]

Please do give me your heart

I enjoy them

[floral herald]

I don't think there's anything like that with the Tau

[ebon forge]

Imo the T'au are the most missunderstood and hated faction in the setting

[topaz elk]

Tau are hated by the most annoying section of the fan

Our lore is constantly misunderstood

[ebon forge]

I would argue the Tau are meme'ed even harder than Orks, but in a negative sense

[topaz elk]

And people still call them communist for some reason despite their literal caste system

[runic swallow]

Gotta say, hearing that Tau were inspired by America in the Gulf War made a lot of stuff click

[ebon forge]

Oh yeah it does, like
It was eye oppening , is Bush Era Nato

[solemn gull]

yassified spacemarines no way

[naive abyss]

I think the only reason the votann escaped a similar issue is due to them being dorfs lol

[ebon forge]

And having little to no Lore atm

[topaz elk]

I mean how many Votann posts don’t have people spamming rock and stone?

[solemn gull]

did you have that hotkeyed lmao?

[ebon forge]

No, as a Ork player I just have killbind hotkeyed

[naive abyss]

I mean I'll be real that is not a negative

[proud wing]

how can a pile of dust be androgynous tho

[naive abyss]

I mean they had about the same as tau on release I think

[ebon forge]

Where is their bad FPS game them >:V

[ebon forge]

Before the dustening*

[naive abyss]

That was a while after release

[ebon forge]

oh fair

[solemn gull]

how can you define dust as masculine or feminine

unless your french

[naive abyss]

Also the sorcerers didn't get dusted

[solemn gull]

most did?

[naive abyss]

No

Only the non psykers

[solemn gull]

weren't all the Tsons psykers?

[naive abyss]

No

Just they had more

[ebon forge]

o

[naive abyss]

Hence why most units are lead by one functioning like a sergeant lol

[ebon forge]

Oh man imagine being a non psyker in the Thousand Sons, you probably would suffer so much prejuice

[solemn gull]

I thought the geneseed made them psykers

[naive abyss]

It made more of them psykers

[bright dove]

They don't have to worry about it anymore

[naive abyss]

Instead of lounge 20 80

It's like 40 60

Or something akin to that

[solemn gull]

20% of space marines become psykers?

wow