Warhammer and Such

[solemn gull]

I wish it was the other way around

I want to see a named character get hit in the head with a brick and die

wear your helmets please

[past sphinx]

My opinions of Cato have shifted very rapidly with his helmet off

[solemn gull]

he is indeed a handsome lad

[bright dove]

Kharn wears his helmet

[jaunty dawn]

like when vraks started as an ecclesiarchal uprising they had to take out all the sisters

[ebon forge]

There was that one official comic with the Iron Warriors shooting a Iron fist tho
"No helmet?"
Heads shot
"Idiot"

[solemn gull]

Kharn may be the smartest character in 40k damn

[solemn gull]

lmao

iron fists are so goofy

the first test to become a iron hand is literally boxing an astartes

[bright dove]

Ahriman also wears his helmet

[solemn gull]

and then after that if you survive and become an astartes you replace all that astartes meat with bionics for some reason

[ebon forge]

Seeing it again
I think is fan made
Shit

[solemn gull]

Why don't they just fully borg out their recruits

[ebon forge]

If they could they would go full Necron

[upper canopy]

That is definitely fan-made

But also why would you borg out someone who is currently in the process of growing

like twice as large

[floral herald]

They're not doing it for practical reasons its like a cultural affectation

[thin ibex]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqjWGYGg_tE/?igsh=MWs0amJlaGFxYzcwbg==

art_of_terryvanatta

Here's the piece I submitted for the Endless Engines challenge for @pwnisher . I was so excited to get top 100 out of over 4,200 entries! If you want to see my breakdown video and the full res video it's on my Artstation and my Youtube channel (links in bio).

I was so pumped to get to do a personal piece, and to get to jump into something to...

Likes

1589

Instagram

[jaunty dawn]

like how the process of only recruiting from death worlds in many chapters has been called into question too

[floral herald]

Yeah a lot of that is just counterproductive macho stuff

[jaunty dawn]

fwiw tho with iron hands like a lot of the space marine process is in like

preventing rejection

and it just gives you a much bigger meat sack to work with

it's not completely unreasonable

[floral herald]

And a way more robust frame to add bionics to

[jaunty dawn]

mm

handles the strain

[unreal cosmos]

Plus I assume it's somewhat incremental

[tired cairn]

During the burning of Prospero, the Thousand Sons were using their psychic abilities to head shot the famously unhelmeted Space Wolves. So I feel like TSons in particular are well aware of the importance of helmets

[past sphinx]

It's important to remember that imperium and marines by extension dumber than a box of dense rocks

A lizard brain society

[ebon forge]

I like when space marines are nice to children

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/VincentKnotley/status/1758407878946226188

[runic swallow]

I absolutely love this

Completely in line with the IW’s vibe

My favorite version of the IW is them as the guys trying to act like an actual military force with logistics and strategy and regular command meetings all the while their allies are busy foaming at the mouth, trying the paint their tank to be properly garish, or chanting gibberish

Like, you’d be a bitter asshole too if you had to put up with that for 10,000+ years

[ebon forge]

I just wanna state it, don't @ me but
Diocletian is a fucking asshole

[runic swallow]

I honestly don’t remember who that is

[ebon forge]

Custodes from Master of Mankind book

The boy, Darak, turned his eyes up to Diocletian. ‘Are your parents soldiers?’ ‘No,’ said Diocletian. ‘They are long dead. My mother was a slave who died of intestinal flux, and my father was a barbarian king executed by the Emperor’s own hand for opposing the principles of Unity.’ ‘The… what?’ ‘I’ve finished speaking with you,’ Diocletian told the boy

My guy, it's a child

[naive abyss]

I mean tbh this is more friendly than most marines lol

[ebon forge]

I mean
Yes

[pastel rampart]

https://fxtwitter.com/rnrqkq123/status/1758111260317802633?t=DEeYwKlrfZ_Rz80_YtlSwA&s=19

[ebon forge]

But when you have a Blood Angel being kind as fuck to constrast you
Yeah

[runic swallow]

Oh lmao, I remember him now, he was one of the top custodes right?

[ebon forge]

Yeah, reading MoM been slow but been interesting
Custodes are less one note than I though .
And Dorn is exactly as I imaginated

[runic swallow]

I remember the Titan stuff in MoM was pretty neat

[ebon forge]

Yeah, have you read Knightsblade?
I am thinking in being the next one

[spice flicker]

I think I might start listening to Gloomspite. Is it any good?

[runic swallow]

I’ve not, I kinda fell off 40k a few years back due to school and being away from anywhere I could play it, though I’ve kept up a passing interest

I do need to read Titanicus at some point, I’ve heard nothing but good things about it

[ebon forge]

Warhammer 40k Titanicus is the full name?
What is about, BIG mechs?

[past sphinx]

If I might add imperitor as a second to that

And warlord as a somewhat distant third

Solid 6.5 or 7 of a 40k book but titanicus is solid

[spice flicker]

Have you read mechanicum, titandeath, or mortis yet?

The first has some sections focused on knights and titans during the great schism on Mars during the early days of the horus heresy.

[ebon forge]

Mechanicum was fun

Stroika 😦

[ebon forge]

Boy people sure love to give non happy smiles, like

'Against all odds, Ra gave a mirthless, unpleasant smile. ‘No, my king.'

So he just went :l ?

like this?

[jaunty dawn]

ye

[ebon forge]

thank,
I am not used to it

[naive abyss]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/959855447966371891/1208145434925867008/Expendable_d35919_11163446.jpg?ex=65e2381d&is=65cfc31d&hm=69c09faf034a907a354c06b5c9b8ba54c59e831b835348b67ea24b7acf12965c&

[jaunty dawn]

yeee

in unrelated news, Underworlds good

[ebon forge]

guds

Is Battlesector good?

[jaunty dawn]

no idea

[naive abyss]

Man I'm so tempted by epic warpath

If only to get lil plastic space dorfs

[pulsar cairn]

lil

[thin ibex]

For what it has it was good imo, but it was really barebones as well. Prolly one of the better translations of the tabletop into a computer game tho

so, not a lot to it, but decently good quality for what it had

[ebon forge]

Thank ya!

[jaunty dawn]

might wishlist that to pick up when it's cheap

love turn based strategy haha

[bright dove]

SETTRA SIGHTED

[spice flicker]

You can't just say his name without listing his titles now.

[past sphinx]

theres like nothing on what the fuck russ might be doin and the isha thing is just fanon right?

out there lookin for a tree or somthin

[pastel rampart]

Isha's not a fanon thing, she's trapped in nurgle's garden.

Russ tho, who the fuck knows where and what he's doing.

[quaint compass]

They should Russ

To Age of Sigmar >:]

[solemn gull]

Wonder what he thinks of those tanks that use the skitarii pilots as batteries

[past sphinx]

they are nondisposable they cant be put in the normal trash pits

[jaunty dawn]

...hm

so the dunecrawler doesn't really have like

an interior

like the pilot is in an eva plug

so who's the stubber gunner

like I assume it's another ranger and not the Gunner ranger that's hooked into the systems

[past sphinx]

Im guessing their for like in field coordination, radio operation, basic repairs ec

moves the ammo

[jaunty dawn]

mm maybe

[past sphinx]

it also looks like there is a third rider

theres a rear cupula

[jaunty dawn]

that's who I mean yeah

[past sphinx]

so like driver, commander and a loader/radio operator

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's just that you can interpret the lore as dunecrawlers being basically dreadnaughts

and it would be kinda funny to see a like firing platform on the back of one of those with a space marine on a storm bolter or something

[naive abyss]

She*

[jaunty dawn]

nah that's faustinius

[naive abyss]

Oh shit you're right

[jaunty dawn]

one of the women, scaevola, is actually probably who he's responding to haha

[naive abyss]

I'm so use to the lady commander for these memes lol

[jaunty dawn]

yeah fair

boss man is just also cool

[naive abyss]

Cuz she's also big that energy lol

[floral herald]

I think that's the "I agree with Khepra" response

[jaunty dawn]

mechanicus has such a fun cast

[naive abyss]

Def

[naive abyss]

Ngl just croak, sigmar, and the eternity would be overkill as is lol

[past sphinx]

Croak could simply solo most of the 40k universe

[floral herald]

Nictanova did a bunch of cool extra portraits for Mechanicus

https://x.com/Nicta_nova/status/1488614870203441152?s=20

Nictanova (@Nicta_nova) on X

Tech-Acquisitor Scaevola, xenarite from Mechanicus game.

#warhammer #warhammer40k

Twitter · Feb 1, 2022, 8:46 PM

https://nictanova.tumblr.com/post/731622676055179264/caestus-metalican-triumvirate

[untold swallow]

Bearers of the Word Processor

[upper canopy]

She's not actually anymore

[pastel rampart]

Got a source on that?

[upper canopy]

End Times

And also she hasn't been mentioned since and instead some kinda creature called like

the daemolix or something

i forget the name

[topaz elk]

https://vxtwitter.com/_al1v/status/1758479168319189313?s=46&t=fIUfY3FiRXkmKVbIBdHHIw

[pastel rampart]

We're talking about the Eldar god here, End Times is a whole other thing.

[upper canopy]

Kaldor Draigo was ther e

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/GeyL03

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Isha Yes, but unless there's something past 8th ed that says otherwise, she's still around.

[jaunty dawn]

goes kinda hard ngl

[naive abyss]

lol

[uneven ember]

A tortured amalgam of flesh and technology, neither servitor nor cogiator but truly a thing that should not be, turns two lidless eyes to the holographic map displays on the Battle Barge's bridge. "It looks like you're trying to launch a planetary invasion," the thing croaks out. "Would you like help with that?"

[past sphinx]

hes rollin up that very saucy spaggetti

because i dont know what would be hanging off a idk chainsaw? like that

seeing maturing artists draw weapons is always fucking fascinating because with anatomy you can kinda bend, long as it looks mostly like what you intend it to be the blanks get filled in. With kit however things tend to have some very specific ass proportions correlated to human anatomy

its also very funny to me to see how many artist cant quite get the very specific and fucky wrist-elbow-shoulder for traditional rifle stocks so they end up with characters holding them like they have a pistol grip made of air

strangely comes up in like 3d printable models to

[naive abyss]

i can always tell when an artist has little weapon drawing practice with how they draw axes and warhammers

same with armor

[past sphinx]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OGEabJ

[floral herald]

That's and interesting chainsword design because its actually just a big chainsaw

[naive abyss]

lol yeah

[past sphinx]

like his use of color here is very strong and the lighting is rad as fuck but you look a little to long at how the armor hangs and it doesnt quite sit right and i know what hes doin, he aint drawing a skeleton inside of it, their drawing them like just a big dude

idk art is rad and understanding how the bits go together in art is radder

go to your local museum today

we need the support

[naive abyss]

as someone who knows lots of random bits of theory agreed

[orchid venture]

guys

[floral herald]

little guys

[orchid venture]

tiny

[floral herald]

Those are such impressive models though

I've been following this army project on Twitter and its just crazy cool

[orchid venture]

i’m so proud of them

it’s taking a long while but worth it

[uneven ember]

no it's great
anti-Catichans

[jaunty dawn]

so worth it!

[orchid venture]

there's a player at the local store with a catachan army and i fully intend to play a game with him and take a lot of pictures lol

[naive abyss]

vibe

[thin ibex]

Eavy Metal ork mechanized horde

Mass firing deck

[jaunty dawn]

hmm

feels like it needs a stompa

possibly the physically largest firing deck model in the game

wait what

it doesn't have it

it should have firing deck 4

they brought back firing from hatches in rhinos n shit but not for the stompa???? I am unimpressed by this information

[junior robin]

once again really tempted to put tyrant guard limbs on the new biovore

[jaunty dawn]

seems like it could work

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1758766982009098409

catachan governer

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1756260352054989055

[ebon forge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/933909375083503657/1208264983994040320/image.png?ex=65e2a774&is=65d03274&hm=5281374a5f28b874e4a08a4daba3f7549c903381b0463dff2d6639db8de92ffa& what is the lore reason for Nagash give himself bone pecs?

[tepid stratus]

Vanity

[sweet solar]

when did that become hotter than this

[jaunty dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/theyre-the-same-picture-the-office-pam-the-office-us-gif-20757621

[uneven ember]

https://vxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1758766982009098409

[naive abyss]

some morningstar stuff lol

[past sphinx]

Yup you where right he looks much better with a fighting knife

[solemn gull]

Tanith Silver!

post pic when you can dude

[solemn gull]

also does that gun have two barrels?

[naive abyss]

yes

[solemn gull]

but it has only one magazine?

is it feeding to two barrels at the same time?

reminds me of how people draw the proportions of terminators under their armour

[floral herald]

I think there's a second magazine on the back

or its FUCKED internally haha

[soft willow]

Second barrel is just there for the aesthetics.

[solemn gull]

would be cool if it was removable so you could swap the barrels in case of overheating

[naive abyss]

it has two magazines yeah

the idea being one barrel is a speciality ammunition of some kind or another

and the other is the standard rounds used

[solemn gull]

oh like a masterkey/grenade launcher

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zPLNP4

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/39GkVv

[pulsar cairn]

Nagash may be a bastard

but he's cool looking

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCAYgGOxfR8&t=11s

[pine matrix]

You know something I though was neat? High Elves, Wood Elves and Dark Elves having the same pantheon, but arranging them differently in terms of importance

[past sphinx]

@solemn gull

not the subtle blades of the old trees but it hacks through a gene monster goliath fine enough

[naive abyss]

ye

cuz they all start from the same starting point basically

[unreal cosmos]

https://liberdaemonica.com/shop/tproduct/472658443-117976199041-sanguinia-the-great-angel-painted-versio

[naive abyss]

i feel like thats just a horny yndrasta at that point lol

[unreal cosmos]

lol

more canon primarchs should have bare midsections tho

astartes in general

the doomguy principal

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/Zceenook/status/1759045258984235451

[past sphinx]

anti psi weapon on a budget, pylon half brick in a sock

[uneven ember]

Not Warhammer but I spent like a year in big online game trying to work out what level of realism we're going for with armor to see if my barbarian warlord PC could do the Battle Girdle thing and call it armor.

Although in Warhammer, that sort of thing is why I don't really like it when people acknowledge space marines taking off their helmets in-universe
It's a style thing that doesn't impact their armor save, Don't Worry About It

[solemn gull]

Hell yeah

[past sphinx]

did you know that greenstuff can expire?

because the hobby store i bought this stuff from didnt

[naive abyss]

oof

[jaunty dawn]

damn

what even happened to it

[jaunty dawn]

the angle makes it hard to see but it has a vertical mag and a horizontal mag

it is kinda cool but tbh if you have two entirely seperate actions doing shooting them both at the same time is probably the most effective use of that, SPIW style

if you just want an ammo selector you only need the two magazines really

carbine isn't necessarily wrong per se but this is basically a shotgun, using AP dart rounds to perform the carbine role which is pretty cool

[quaint compass]

https://vxtwitter.com/mossacannibalis/status/1759151552340906069?s=20

[valid brook]

Honestly, I thought I did but then I got great results with some ~10 year gs I’d had lying around so now I’m not sure anymore

[upper canopy]

https://twitter.com/DiscourseMinis/status/1759198209501438029

Discourse Minis 👽 | Dungeons & Discourse 😈 (@DiscourseMinis) on X

Games Workshop REALLY doesn't care about Warhammer Plus anymore. They forgot to renew the domain.

Twitter · Feb 18, 2024, 12:48 PM

[cinder wraith]

i think its because its warhammertv.com now instead of warhammerplus.com

they changed domain name by the looks of it

[bold halo]

Yeah the usual thing to do is set up a redirect on the old url tho, not just let it rot

[bright dove]

I would not expect GW to have good website practices. 😛

[naive abyss]

Ngl I just checked and the website still exists

[jaunty dawn]

op of that post mentioned it being back yeah

about 4 hours ago looks like

auto renew failure probably

for whatever reason

[past sphinx]

Paint pot for scale

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ySZJHMITyY

[desert jay]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1068037283879600128/1208933791901421608/the-faction-sure-changed-v0-n72v01zpe4jc1.webp

[bright dove]

Yes, yes you are.

[jaunty dawn]

come to think of it they could've gone further by making vior'la tau a breacher

[past sphinx]

people keep yelling that tau are infact just as grim and just as dark as everybody

these people are counterrevolutionarys and should be handled as such

glory to the ethereals

[brittle salmon]

Manifesting a Culexus Assassin for every Ethereal in the empire, actually

[naive abyss]

tbh i still feel like the tau do this. honestly the tau, kin, and eldar are a good trifecta of various contrasts to the grimdark while still not just being perfect imo

[jaunty dawn]

I think they still do it to an extent while also having always done the opposite to an extent

[naive abyss]

mm mm

[jaunty dawn]

like 3rd edition tau were already fairly sinister and also An Empire with A Caste System

and modern tau can still be little a good as a treat

the main lady has a god friend even

[naive abyss]

well "friend" lol

[jaunty dawn]

much like everything else in 40k you can take things in multiple directions simultaneously

[past sphinx]

a god of the greater good could be a really interesting way to push things

as always

make em weirder

[naive abyss]

im fond of the greater good goddess

cuz it gave shadowsun a mcguffin i feel she lacked and i like her dynamic with said goddess

also cool ass psychic mushrooms

that i desperately want models of

[upper canopy]

I just want Ethereals to like

Not be a weird monolith

Cuz it makes no fucking sense

Unless they are a literal hive mind

[quaint compass]

They also inspire the same awe and obedience they do to other castes on themselves and each other

[proud wing]

comparing the t'au to the imperium is like comparing modern china to the third reich

[upper canopy]

iunno 'bout that

[junior summit]

like, the tau are weird and strange and probably worse than living in the modern US

but the imperium is a meat grinder wearing the skin of a state

[thin ibex]

It's a bit token, but I feel like aun shi is an example of an ethereal who goes against the grain a bit

Hmm guess I'll try for a viorla themed 3k point army

[remote wharf]

The T'au are bad in a realistic sense. they don't fuel their dying god king with an orphan crusher, or are actual demons. They're just an expansionist empire with a caste system, a real things that have existed. But because its 40k that flew over peoples head so they cranked up the sinister.

[naive abyss]

and a similar thing happened with the LOV lol

where various folks fussed over them not being grim enough

even though they weird hyper materialists who eat planets with their super mining machines and have ai cores that are slowly going senile

[long void]

I appreciate LoV giving a reason for battling on asteroids and barren moons

I heard the T'au warp skipping was removed?

Seems like an odd decision to limit the scope of their presence even further.

[floral herald]

I'm not terribly happy with LoV lore atm but I think that's more that I don't like how the 9e codex was written than that I don't like the faction

They are admittedly also somewhat grimmer than I expected

I'm looking forward to the new dawn of fire novel featuring some of them because I want more writing

[floral herald]

yes technically but its stupid

I think it's probably the most generally "nah that never happened" piece of official information ever

[naive abyss]

i think my single like fave lil bit of LOV lore is the weird warp diving suit stuff they have

thats neat

[floral herald]

Yeah I liked their treatment in kill team

[naive abyss]

i do also find it funny they strip mined an ark of omen lol

[long void]

agreed.
let Tau be skipping stones.

they're still limited in travel

[past sphinx]

A MULTI SOLARSYSTEM MULTISPECIES EMPIRE WITHOUT FTL

You might as tie resources and information onto a millstone and huck it into the sea for all thr good it would do arriving a couple century's later

[tired cairn]

Warp skipping was neat >:|

They have weird warp drives now right?

[floral herald]

yes but they didn't for a while which is just ???

[naive abyss]

did they fully implement theier warp drive they made?

last i remember with that is it made a big ass wormhole leading to the atoll lol

[naive abyss]

ironically the LOV now have the closest thing to it. in that they do more reliable slower multi jump routes through the warp

[floral herald]

afaik no but that has more to do with being close to the narrative present than anything else

[naive abyss]

Fair

Honestly I kinda wish tau had like wormhole gates

It'd be a neat way to distinguish them

Slow at first arrival but once they develop a region it's super fast

[pine matrix]

Seems odd they announced the Siege Consul and now it's up for preorder by the Eye of the Warmaster consul hasn't been released yet 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

the release schedule works in mysterious ways

[sweet solar]

wtf they took away warp skipping??? they really wanna just make tau blue human empire huh

[jaunty dawn]

taking away warp skipping makes them even less like the imperium

like they went from having inferior warp travel to no warp travel whatsoever

[sweet solar]

honestly i had assumed they gave them full warp

so they just

dont have an empire anymore?

[jaunty dawn]

no they do and it makes no sense

hence why everyone just ignores it

[ebon forge]

Yeah, like
So you expect us to think they conquered so many planets
By basic just going full force forward and having many T'au generations dying and being born inside the fucking ships?

[pulsar cairn]

[ebon forge]

they still have mad drip tho

The white with the 2 red marks really makes a difference

[pulsar cairn]

Tru

[ebon forge]

Less is more

[thin ibex]

Tau make frequent use of stasis, noting that shadowsun isn't immortal, she gets put to sleep for many years at a time, abs roused for major conflicts

[jaunty dawn]

I need to decide if my tau faction are old but still the people who started the faction or old and have been on their own for generation

[ebon forge]

Farsight 2

Or how they will be called
Scope

[mental birch]

holy shit the T'au empire has garbage strategic response time

but yeah we know they use the shit out of stasis

[ebon forge]

I know right?!
I already though Lancer had problematic response time in lore but the T'au? Holyshit

[unreal cosmos]

I've honestly really done a 180 on my view of the T'au, I don't want Ethereal mind control or mass sterilization but claiming that they were always supposed to be "the good guys" and that it got undone by whiny fans increasingly feels like willful misinterpretation

[mental birch]

I have thoughts about air cast long haul pilots

like, huh, they're basically Rip Van Winkle

[ebon forge]

Yeah, i really don't get what it's so hard to understand about hte T'au and how the hell they got labed as 'the good guys'

[unreal cosmos]

the NATO analogy is currently my favorite one

[ebon forge]

motherfucekrs, they WILL integrate you on their system if you like it or not

[mental birch]

because people think the First world countries they live in are good guys

and miss that Colonialism bad

[unreal cosmos]

I like the angle of "they're the closest thing to good guys in this setting, which means they'd be the bad guys in most other settings"

[jaunty dawn]

it does kinda get me a little upset when like, people try to launder the caste system's reputation

[ebon forge]

...Oh yeah, makes sense

[mental birch]

like if you read early t'au lore about the Greater good and don't go, "sounds like a burden for the white man"

[jaunty dawn]

like it's not a funny ya novel personality test it's a thing directly based on real life discrimination and opression

[ebon forge]

Yeah, like
In a caste sytem, that's it, want to do something else with your life? Too bad

[mental birch]

though Hot Fuzz did a lot to make the greater good chanting link to facisms or at least make it easier to explain

[ebon forge]

You are water cast , but want to build mechs? Too bad

[unreal cosmos]

Honestly I've previously considered ways to rewrite the T'au and one of them is just "instead of the castes basically being entire subspecies it's a Divergent situation"

[mental birch]

I do have an idea that with the T'au using long haul stasis travel

the Air Caste are people who make those runs

so out of time

[jaunty dawn]

it's also like sure the 4 castes are in theory equal but like; their primary enconomy is a military industrial complex

[mental birch]

that they became a social caste of their own

[jaunty dawn]

pretty much their entire society is geared toward endless colonialism

[unreal cosmos]

The weirdest thing about the Castes is that they don't even work like the traditional way they do in human cultures, they were preexisting separate ethnic groups

[mental birch]

Highly stratified social structure, endless colonialism towards a goal of an empire the sun never sets on

Union Jack sounds

[thin ibex]

I believe the relatively flat caste hierarchy was an intentional decision, it gets mentioned in the same interview that the NATO comment got made

[ebon forge]

Does that mean the Farsight was made just to say "NO YOU DUMBFUCKS, THE T'AU ARE FUCKED UP, SEE?!"

But gave a 'good guys' T'au for those that liked the good guy aspect of it?

[mental birch]

also complete disregard for the civilisations they consider lesser

[ebon forge]

sorry what?

[mental birch]

Ahhh El Generalissimo

[ebon forge]

You say that but I see people still using Che Guevara shirts nowdays :V

[mental birch]

but seriously, I think that the t'au being completely unaware

like these primitives they fight

consider lesser

have histories grander and mightier

[pine matrix]

The bar for "good" in 40k is so unfathomably low, that not immediately killing all aliens you meet clears it

[mental birch]

individuals carrying legacies that make their great empire a mere speck

[ebon forge]

also that

[thin ibex]

Response to genome, but the tau have a relatively flat hierarchy between the 4 castes with Ethereals at the top. This was mentioned as intentional in the same interview where the Tau were related to NATO by the person who originally wrote their lore

[mental birch]

and they don't even know that

[ebon forge]

oh cool, thanks!

[mental birch]

they just bumble through, imposing "civilisation"

and destroying those histories in the process

[pine matrix]

Tau in pith helmets

[thin ibex]

The difference being that in irl history, castes usually had a strict linear hierarchy, which the writer who's name I forget decided to avoid with the tau

[jaunty dawn]

not necessarily strict

it could change a lot

[ebon forge]

sorry for the ignorance but what you mean?
The casts respond all to the aetherals right? won't that made linear?

[jaunty dawn]

but what I was getting at with in theory equal is like; realistically everyone's job is judged by it's usefulness to the 'Greater Good'

[unreal cosmos]

The four main castes are under the ethereals but aren't ranked in relation to each other

[jaunty dawn]

as long as you're contributing, sure, there's no stigma

but like in a system like that the actual military are gonna be treated differently

[unreal cosmos]

whereas many historical caste systems are a ladder of Most Important to Least Important

[mental birch]

the Enclaves are implementing a military first policy of self reliance with Farsight as the great leader

[jaunty dawn]

if only because they are the very tool of the entire society

[mental birch]

hmmmmmmmm

[unreal cosmos]

All of this said I do like story beats of Imperial worlds being genuinely better under T'au occupation and all that, they're colonialists and speciesist but they're not as comically Bad as the humans

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I think like people should also be free to not take 40k too seriously; like I'm happy with making gay lady marines and whatever suits my fancy

[unreal cosmos]

yeah exactly

[jaunty dawn]

but I think you should like, underpin that with a knowledge of why 40k is so bad

[mental birch]

I'm painting up a 30K army of gay lady bikers

[unreal cosmos]

yeah

[unreal cosmos]

hella

[mental birch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1101866329499254835/1209139250423922749/20240219_080653.jpg?ex=65e5d5ae&is=65d360ae&hm=90c423daa4a08a9326eccee8c03948ad0118489aa52ad4250012c6ca2fddd415&=&format=webp&width=662&height=662

AXOLOTL#

CAV

[storm schooner]

Yet another Kroot W

Also not very lone, he's got 3 spears and a friend

[jaunty dawn]

Kalamandras

[mental birch]

that's clearly an Axalotl

also cute

[jaunty dawn]

Im guessing that means this is just friend he made!

not a kroot relative, that is

oh waht

rumour engine

damn,,, I had seen evidence supporting these being kroot related but I was Convinced they'd be for aos shadow elves

[ebon forge]

OH! I see , thank you

[ebon forge]

The forbidden Necron Joint

[unreal cosmos]

for some reason the website isn't showing any of this for me

[jaunty dawn]

the front page hasn't updated yet

cache stuff

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/19/kroot-lone-spears-snipe-specialists-bust-tanks-and-slink-back-into-the-underbrush/

but links go out on social media on the dot

[unreal cosmos]

excellent

[ebon forge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1auf6t5/what_is_your_favourite_poorly_described_warhammer/

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/a2kMOiERchXjEx2Y.jpg oooh, yet another color scheme, I wonder if there's gonna be some kroot subfaction fluff

I'm not wild about this creature's design, but the unit is cool

[jaunty dawn]

feel like it's an angle thing

[unreal cosmos]

could be

[jaunty dawn]

the green one there looks pretty cool

[unreal cosmos]

I think you're right, it's more appealing when you can see it from the front. I also like the different poses.

[ebon forge]

The old ones!

[mental birch]

they look like atlatl-wielding axolotl

😛

[jaunty dawn]

I have officially lost hope for knarlocs to be mentioned at all tho tbh

[thin ibex]

sorry had to get in car, but the difference being that in many IRL caste systems you have a progression as so: Caste -> Caste -> Caste -> Caste -> Caste. With each predecessor having more social and political authority than the successor, and the last being least important, least powerful than all others.

Wit the Tau, its more like Ethereals -> [Fire, Water, Air, Earth]

with very little hierarchal power linearly placing any of hte elemental casts above the others

or I guess, instead of looking like this
x
x
x
x
x

it looks like this
x
xxxx

thus my commentary on being relatively flat

[bright dove]

That's not flat! It's a pyramid. 😛

[jaunty dawn]

irl caste systems are pretty complicated. as real societies are wont to be

[thin ibex]

oh definitely, I admit im simplifying a great deal

[past sphinx]

Tau are a YA novel version of a caste system

Where everyone has a special job and not generations of systematic oppression

[thin ibex]

really my larger point was that the author when writing the tau's caste system intended for it to depart from more contemporary examples of caste systems

BIFFORD: What inspired the caste system of the Tau? Was it feudal Japan? Or perhaps India?

THORPE: Originally? Probably India, but mixed with a bit of the warrior caste idea from feudal Japan. The main difference is the lack of hierarchy between castes - which is pretty much the point of an actual caste system - other than the over-riding presence of the Ethereals. The first inspiration was really the elemental idea, more than that of a caste system itself.

[past sphinx]

We need some good xenos novels

[thin ibex]

Transcript being pulled from here
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b3pc01/qa_with_gav_thorpe/

[jaunty dawn]

yeah but it's kinda like

saying "oh we got rid of the hierarchy other than the over-riding presence of Brahmin"

or hell White People

Not that I'd necessarily expect these writers to have the deepest thoughts on structural opression lol

in a way it's kinda like a 'what if castes but they're equal but some castes are more equal than others' joke

Cause according to the tau it's not like the ethereal caste necessarily sits above; no no, they're simply born to do the job of being in charge and having people die for them

[bright dove]

I mean, that's just cope in action.

[jaunty dawn]

also not touched upon is like

the worst victims of caste systems are often the casteless; and tau definitely have caste traitors and people who've been de-casted

but just like we don't really focus on the downtrodden of the imperium, it's not really what the story is about

[bright dove]

I mean, we hear way way more about the downtrodden of the Imperium.

[jaunty dawn]

not like

in the way I mean tbh

we hear about gangers

I mean yes we do hear more about the imperium in general

[bright dove]

Underhivers in general, the various menial classes across many worlds, the victims of servitorhood.

[jaunty dawn]

and we get stories like random scribe accidentally corrupts entire factory

but its kinda like

[bright dove]

Actually, this might be my Dark Heresy knowledge acting up again.

[jaunty dawn]

the only way for them to really have agency in this universe is for them to be mind controlled into a cult

[bright dove]

Because boy, do some of the books get into the menial classes being fucked.

[jaunty dawn]

its also notable in like siege of vraks we get like one chapter about what it's actually like to be part of a human insurrection before space marines show up and it's never mentioned again

[bright dove]

There's a DH 1e prewritten mission that gets into how part of a hive becomes underhive, with the acolytes going in to investigate something in an area that has just had its power and support systems destroyed by an earthquake.

[jaunty dawn]

mhm

[bright dove]

Found one of the Dark Heresy planets that gets into this a bit as well.

Two principal forces maintain Sepheris Secundus’s feudal system. The first is the weight of tradition: every serf labouring in the mines is doing what his father did and his grandfather did before that, often on the same rock face. Mothers tell their children tales about the horrible fates met by disobedient serfs who deny the demands of their masters, and the lay preachers who administer the Imperial creed describe no greater sin than having ideas above one’s station.```

The second force is physical violence. One of the reasons that Sepheris Secundus’s culture is so primitive by many standards that weaponry and other technology is monopolized by the crown. The Queen’s Royal Scourges are equipped with lasguns, grenades, and chainblades, contrasting with their gaudy, stained-glass-like armor. Though few in number the technological advantage that these troops possess has been enough to put down a great many uprisings in the mines, and the planet’s history is littered with massacres where thousands of serfs fell to volleys of lasgun fire. The barons each have their own forces, some of which is are permitted to use a few high-tech weapons, although most of them are armed with primitive but well-made weapons and armor with which to enforce the baronial will. Meanwhile when the serfs rise up, they do so with improvised weapons and mining equipment. The serfs, even when roused to violence in significant numbers, have never held one of Sepheris Secundus’s mines for very long because of the massive superiority in equipment and training possessed by the forces of their masters. When the baronial armies fail, the Royal Scourges do not. The Royal Scourges answer directly to the Queen which also makes them ideal for keeping the barons themselves in line. Many an overambitious baron has refused to send the queen her rightful tribute, only to find his supposedly elite army cut to pieces by the Royal Scourges.```

[jaunty dawn]

it was kinda fun in IM playing an angry and competent person

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9dYU2mHltU

[thin ibex]

yeah, i do think the tau empire generally also maintains a high surveillance state where caste traitors and so on are, in a sort of frightening and muted way, get removed. They absolutely dissappear people, and publically just say they've been assigned to a different posting

I think the farsight novels touch on that a little bit actually

I think your average tau citizen simply considers it normal to be under constant surveillance

[thin ibex]

hell yeah

also totally called it

sniper rider

[junior robin]

really want to see it in a "enemy at the gates" style movie against a Sydonian Skatros

[thin ibex]

skratos v Lone-Spear

[mental birch]

I don't think they maintain an explicit surveillance state by policy just one that, "happens"

To be free the T'au must first kill the cop inside their hearts

..... I think I stole thst from somewhere

[jaunty dawn]

I'm kinda thinking about doing a like

tau cia slash section 31 from star trek

like how much they're actually at odds with conventional elements is unclear but they're definitely bad themselves

[ebon forge]

thank you kindly~!

[jaunty dawn]

and they're like a deep insertion team that pretty much acts as they see fit, furthering The Greater Good from far behind enemy lines and before you even meet your first water caste

[spice flicker]

I had a friend try and invite me to join a WFRP game he was starting up that was essentially the party being a group traveling to a through the warhammer fantasy equivalent of the Dungeon of Fear and Hunger. He laughed after I rejected the offer since it was the fastest I ever denied joining a game and thought it was funny how quick the rejection came.

[cloud flicker]

That is a bit funny.

[spice flicker]

I mean I like warhammer and don't mind how grimdark it can get at times but the idea of traversing the warhammer fantasy equivalent to the Dungeon of Fear and Hunger would terrify me.

[thin ibex]

i know nothing, what's the dungeon of fear and hunger?

[thin ibex]

I could totally see this, something something Ethereals undeclared hounds or some such

[still warren]

Survival horror game

[spice flicker]

The main setting for the Fear and Hunger game. It is very much not for the faint of heart. I mentioned to that friend that a Youtuber i sometimes watch played the game a while ago and it was what caused him to consider inviting me to join.

I mean I joined him for his silent hill in warhammer campaign but yeah no ill pass on Fear and Hunger meets warhammer campaign.

[solemn gull]

would it take place during the end times

[spice flicker]

Not entirely sure

[long void]

I can imagine a WFRP game through a cruel dungeon would really drag on.

[pastel rampart]

Fear and Hunger sounds more at home with Shadow of the Demon Lord than WFRPG.

[ebon forge]

or how we call it
Funger

[long void]

Getting a moment of a character that dragged themselves to accomplish a task for the broader goal would be cool.

[ebon forge]

Does that mean we can defeat a daemon lord if we throw glass shards on their face?

[upper canopy]

Fear and Hunger is a bit more Berserk than WHFRP but you could definitely do it in there

[spice flicker]

I can see that but my friend prefers wfrp over that system.

[ebon forge]

oh god Slaneesh Pocket Cat

[thin ibex]

hmm

anyone have a list theme for a 3k point? I've been faffing about doing 3ks for the last lil bit

[ebon forge]

4 grey knights

[spice flicker]

How about loyalist alpha legion?

[thin ibex]

hmm

i feel like id just be doing alpha legion CSM, but saying they're loyalist, just focusing on less chaotic csm picks

[spice flicker]

Or 3k points of synaptic nexus maybe?

[thin ibex]

oo

might give it a go

might give both a go

[ebon forge]

Oh god
It's him
Finally
I found him

Arkhan Land considered himself a man of peace. He was first and foremost a technoarchaeologist, devoting his life to the rediscovery of schematics and Standard Template Construct data lost since the Dark Age of Technology. He was rather renowned in that field, and accordingly proud of the fact. Who had ventured for years through the deep crust and mantle vaults of the Librarius Omnis with its horde of lethal traps and hardcoded defensive systems? Why, that would be Arkhan Land. Who had mapped a region of the catacombs beneath the surface of Sacred Mars equal to that of a small nation? Well, that would also be Arkhan Land. Who had uncovered the ancient schematics necessary to reintroduce production of the Raider-pattern main battle tank into the sphere of human knowledge? Once more, it was none other than Arkhan Land.

[thin ibex]

main battle tank?

its got a massive transport capacity and assault ramp

thats not a main battle tank

im sorry arkhan

[spice flicker]

In his defense, I think I've seen more land raiders played as tanks than I have seen predators lately.

[ebon forge]

True that

Tho sadly
He’d been instrumental in designing the gravitic suspensor plates in Legio Custodes’ battle tanks, as well as their – rather beautiful, in his opinion – Paragon-pattern jetbikes. How those engines howled! A noisy engine was a sacrament to the Omnissiah. A machine with silent function was a machine with a weak soul

He's the kind of person that would make his Bike noisy as hell

[pastel rampart]

Dude knows you let a bike roar, he's a man of taste.

[past sphinx]

Arkan finding a daot tank and immediately sawing the muffler off is incredibly fucking funny

[ebon forge]

PPFFFFF Oh god

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-Yq5YXL9c

[ebon forge]

no way

[onyx elm]

I would get this game just for that expansion.

[spice flicker]

How many vehicles are too many in an iron hands list?

[thin ibex]

yes

[desert jay]

When you can't afford enough techmarines to keep them running

[spice flicker]

Power fists or chain fists on Terminators? Captain worth taking with terminators?

[ebon forge]

It is not my son, Arkhan. None of them are. They are warlords, generals, tools bred to serve a purpose. Just as the Legions were bred to serve a purpose.

Ok asshole but you still called Guilliman your son as well Fulgrin when posessing Guilliman
AND perty too

[thin ibex]

Not exactly loyalist, but I tried to keep a more alpha legion supported insurrection vibe

[spice flicker]

Nice

[thin ibex]

Anti-Psyker might have a field day, but otherwise this is a pretty big brain army

[spice flicker]

I know I would replace one of the neurotyrants with making a trio of zoantropes into a 6 man squad but good job.

I have another idea for you if interested: changling plus his chaos knight minions.

[bright dove]

Fucking directly targeting Markiplier now.

[dense sedge]

I honestly like the T'au empire being a morally ambiguous and decent place to live because it makes all the creulty and brutality and inequality that the imperium insists is necessary for survival not merely wrong but actively harming them and maintained by both the elites and the masses

they make the 40th milenium less grimdark but the imperium itself more grimdark

[pine matrix]

I did enjoy the Interex in Horus Rising meeting the Great Crusade and just being like "what, you don't know about chaos??? are you dumb?"

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/kurishi/status/1759611611558420592

[spice flicker]

Ah yes the Canadian cobra chicken is the perfect thing to add to warhammer.

[solemn gull]

Goose

[thin ibex]

The thing i always say about the tau is that the grimdark has always been there, the galactic manifest destiny and smoke and mirrors behind their worst aspects speaks to it; I think those very same smoke and mirrors just happen to work on casual observers of the setting too

[dense sedge]

is this real?

[naive abyss]

Aka warhammer fans vs thematic literacy lol

I do find it funny that the three societies that are sorta decent also exist on a gradient of letting outsiders in lol

[floral herald]

I honestly think most of the “not grimdark enough” complaints are just for factions with insufficiently skull-encrusted aesthetics

[pastel rampart]

Yes

Sadly, geese are in fact real and they are terrible.

[sour sequoia]

Somebody told me necrons weren’t grimdark in August and I’m still reeling from it

[old turret]

Indeed

I got chased by one once

Not fun

[floral herald]

Incredible take actually

[sour sequoia]

So im not even sure how many skulls you need

[floral herald]

Their FACES are all skulls!

More grimdark than the factions which just have them in their heads

[tired cairn]

The Necrons' mistake was not putting skulls on their floating robot friends

[pine matrix]

They should shoot skulls from their guns

[thin ibex]

The faction made up of robotic soulless skeletons awakening from their tombs to haunt the universe of the living; with a history of going to war against one set of gods, then killing their own gods, and facing the degredation of decay of their core selves and sanity because the price they paid for survival is in all liklihood irreperable, meaning they lost before almost any other race in the entire galaxy was even born isn't grimdark enough yeah

honestly the necron monolith shouldve just been a giant skull with laser eyes

that shot skull shaped lasers

when it fires the gun it should entone "Hopeless"

[sour sequoia]

Grimdark is when you have skulls as truck nuts on your car

[thin ibex]

its true

necrons should have pick up trucks with skull nuts

[naive abyss]

Ok but one of the cron casters kinda does that

[thin ibex]

i do still think its a great fucking sentiment or line for the necrons to be like "We know the gods were real because we killed them"

[naive abyss]

def

[naive abyss]

as ref

[pine matrix]

Goddamn that rules

[thin ibex]

Psychomancers, like Reivers, are much cooler than their rules

Their whole shtick is mastery of fear as a science isn't it?

[naive abyss]

something like that yeah

[pine matrix]

I did think it was very cool that Plasmancer are like "oh you still use guns to fire energy? How primitive"

[thin ibex]

This one was maybe absurdly easy to make

maybe a bit low on boyz count, but i like it

honestly 2 gargantuan squiggoths is a mountain of wounds to chew threw

also tried to make a thematic Deathwatch kill team deployment

[thin ibex]

figure a single veteran team with a great deal of support seems appropriate for deathwatch

[jaunty dawn]

oooh

neat idea

[unreal cosmos]

Are there any benefits to running two sentinels as a squad?

[past sphinx]

they have a friend

so they wont be lonely on the board

[jaunty dawn]

means you can run twice as many

cause rule of 3

can also give them both an invuln with a engineseer, give them both an order, etc

buff efficiency

[thin ibex]

Did a full theme one, Catachan platoon who's job it is to find and enter enemy tunnels to engage them, clear them, and then collapse them

[mental birch]

when you can't also fit in a unit of scouts to screen me out from standing in your way 5 turns in a row and forcing you to score 0 primary

[spice flicker]

Not a fan of that unit tbh

[mental birch]

not scouts but you do need some way to stop that answer to the iron hands list from happening

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/GeyNv4

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/KeDW3G

[ebon forge]

burb

[mental birch]

Why does GW keep giving models assless chaps

[thin ibex]

Well, chaps are normally just assless

[jaunty dawn]

kroot just like chaps

[pine matrix]

Kroot do not have asses as we understand them

[storm schooner]

Assless Chaps are the Crabs of clothing

[past sphinx]

Ass'd chaps are just pants

[ebon forge]

You don't get it
They are assless so the clap of their asscheeks don't alert the guards

[bright dove]

It's so the Kroot can easily poop

[ebon forge]

Or how they call it in the field
Tactical discharge

[mental birch]

First the warcry ogre

[thin ibex]

Would sautekh dynasty and imotekh, have a specific mode or style of warfare

[sweet solar]

sometimes you dont have the points for 3

a sentinal squad can also be respawned with that, i forget what its called, the guard reinforcement thing rule

so a bigger squad is more points efficient there

as you can only respawn the squad as it was in your list

[upper canopy]

Kroot don't poop actually

Fun fact

They yarp up pellets like owls

[mental birch]

Oh no

[upper canopy]

And sweat most other waste out

So kroot are actually completely assless

[mental birch]

Respawning also reloads their one shot weapons

[bright dove]

OK then.

[unreal cosmos]

Gotcha!

[topaz elk]

So like, you think the numbers might work better if chapters were like, a million marines each?

[jaunty dawn]

no

I don't care about having more than a 1000 chapters (and don't really think it was meant to be an exact number in the first place) but 1000 line marine chapters are fine tbh

[topaz elk]

Fair

[jaunty dawn]

they're meant to be like smallish organisations yknow

they only get one planet n such

[junior robin]

finally, druid marines

made me think of the dark emissary from whfb but remebered the staff wrong 🤔

[thin ibex]

Made a sautekh themed 3k

i figure sautekh's whole thing was gauss lightning en mass

and i figure imotekh would have a monolith and would have a caged ctan shard he brings to war

the ponopoly of characters is mostly because im using awakened dynasty

[floral herald]

Emperor’s Spearsbros WW@

[thin ibex]

Nah thats obviously a Primaris Lieutenant

[solemn gull]

I would bet money that ADB just got the chance to write about his homebrew chapter and ran with it

[jaunty dawn]

ooh

my dad's copy of rogue trader arrived

[junior robin]

mine got shipped today

only took 114 days

[ebon forge]

pain

[jaunty dawn]

huh. odd

[junior robin]

well things get worse since its going to be delivered home to me instead of a pickup point and last time they just dropped it off in the stairwell since one of my neighbors didnt close the door after them

[jaunty dawn]

wish they'd make it so that searching 'screamer killer' or 'neurotyrant' brought up Horrors of the Hive

but also the carnifex brood box should just be a carnifex brood now. thornbacks are gone and screamer killers have their own model which is much bigger and on a different base

(as discrete units, that is)

[tired cairn]

Also it is not a carnifex anymore lol

[jaunty dawn]

ehhh

it's a carnifex

it's just more different now

[tired cairn]

It doesn't have the keyword 😦

[jaunty dawn]

imo

truee

[tired cairn]

I wonder if GW tournaments let you use the carnifex model as a screamer killer if it is kitted out right

[jaunty dawn]

they should

[thin ibex]

you know i heard the screamer killer isn't very good competetively, but it feels like its a giant bucket of attacks that'll gobble up squads real good

[jaunty dawn]

in a just world

[tired cairn]

It's better now that it isn't as expensive

[jaunty dawn]

ooh

source isss

an ebay post that's gone

rip

looks like tervigon parts though

mostly

[tired cairn]

The legs are screamer killer

[jaunty dawn]

yeah, I meant tervigon parts on the new SK, sorry

[tired cairn]

Ah

[jaunty dawn]

not sure where the claws are from though

[tired cairn]

Haruspex

[ebon forge]

... I mean
What is the name of that unit?:3

[jaunty dawn]

aah

[tired cairn]

I think it's an old one eye kitbash

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it's an old one eye

[thin ibex]

my stat read on the screamer killer is definitely that its kind of a genrealist monster pick thats especially good at tearing up MEQs

[tired cairn]

I wonder if that pose can be pulled off with the regular carnifex sculpt

[jaunty dawn]

wonder how possible it would be to fit a tyrannofex gun on it

since it seems like you need to use tervigon parts to stay in scale

to make a classic heavy weapon carnifex

[tired cairn]

What part is the tervigon?

[jaunty dawn]

...which you could then probably just proxy as a tyrannofex

the head and the scything talons

[tired cairn]

The head? Huh

[jaunty dawn]

yup

notice the mandible bits

[tired cairn]

Oh true

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's been bashed with old one eye's head though

[solemn gull]

Like the rpg or 1e 40k?

[tired cairn]

Yeah, that's what was confusing me

[jaunty dawn]

1e 40k

they did a made to order reprint

a while back

[solemn gull]

Nice

[tired cairn]

It's like the third/fourth edition carnifex/OOE

[jaunty dawn]

they've taken like just the bone bits from the old one eye/regeneration head

[solemn gull]

Rogue Trader practically needed a GM it was a interesting blend of narrative and wargame

Also goofy

Birmingham exists as a planet with no sun to orbit

[jaunty dawn]

you can see the back half of the head is still tervigon

[pastel rampart]

GMs were more common in wargaming back then.

It's up there with "D&D module tournaments" as a weird artifact from ye olde days.

[jaunty dawn]

I was gonna go to a competetive rpg event!

it got cancelled by covid

[pastel rampart]

Huh! I didn't think anyone still did those.

[jaunty dawn]

was a yearly thing between uni societies

[pastel rampart]

But then, I didn't expect a giant Mordheim tournament last month either, so.

[solemn gull]

I would love to organize one of those sometime

I heard about a inq28 event at adepticon where they had like 9 teams investigating a space hulk using the old necromunda ruleset

I can’t wait for 28 mag vol. 6

[thin ibex]

bit of silly one

[spice flicker]

So I decided to look into HH and the list building process. What fresh madness have I gotten myself into?

Still not sure what legion to go with.

[thin ibex]

only do space wolves for flavor, their rule is not particularly good

im personally favorable towards imperial fists

but also i have no idea what im doing with hh lists. Or some idea, but very incomplete

[spice flicker]

Somehow I built a terminator spam+falchion list for 1k sons and now I am brainstorming for IF and AL.

If I wasn't so horrible at painting I'd consider brainstorming for IW as well.

[thin ibex]

just dip the whole army in boltgun metal

and then do hazard stripes on the easiest to reach bits

[unreal cosmos]

There are so many ways to customize a HH list that it's very tempting to keep throwing new ideas around

[thin ibex]

oh wait

hh

not legions

lol

im dumb

space wolves are stronk in hh iirc

big dread boyos

[unreal cosmos]

I just found out IW and WE are the "such good friends their characters can attach to each other's squads" level of ally synergy

And it makes me want to build a whole army around it

[spice flicker]

I mean Kruger or however you spell his name was talked into becoming a champion of Khorne by Kharn in First Wall.

If anything I would have guess the "buddy" legions to be IW/TS and WB/WE tbh.

[thin ibex]

wallace you've inspired me to bumble into hh army lists

which i will approach haphazardly

[spice flicker]

One annoying thing about learning HH is getting back into the groove of every modification costs again. 10th has spoiled me I am starting to feel.

I'm not Wallace though.

[unreal cosmos]

NL and DG are also super-buddies for some reason

[thin ibex]

yeah, I'm's your first name, Not is your middle name, and wallace is your last

side question, whats the usual point scale for hh?

same as 40k?

oh man

theres so much

so many more words

[jaunty dawn]

3000

but like the scale is pretty much the same

its just the games are bigger

to fit more marines and tanks n such in

[pine matrix]

1000 points let's you get a praetor with Master of the Legion

[jaunty dawn]

that and horus heresy evolved from the apocalypse ruleset to an extent

[pine matrix]

I am slowly building up my courage reserves to at some point go to my FLGS and see about getting stuck in with 40k, now I've got about 1000 points of DEldar built

If I could play some HH I could justify getting the BA Jump-pack Dreadnought for my Alphas, purely for the flex

[spice flicker]

In that 1k sons list I have 37 Terminators (15 sekhmet (3x5) and 22 cataphractii (3x5+2x3)), 20 tactical Marines (2x10 each with rhinos), a falchion (650 points), a cataphractii Praetor, and Ahriman

Honestly I think if I truly commit to HH I might go with IW, IF, or AL since I like how they used to look compared to 40k and both IW and AL feel more at home with their HH arsenals rather than their 40k options.

[pine matrix]

AL lets you do sneaky fuckery bullshit, I picked em partly because always being 2 inches further away from your enemy than you look is funny to me, plus rewards of treachery

Plus I'm pretty sure Exodus is the only named character you can take multiple of, as he's not marked as Unique

[spice flicker]

Makes sense for AL's tendency to go under false names and assume the identity of others.

IF and IW breachers sound like they'd be amazingly thematic and cool to use.

[thin ibex]

hmm not a good pic

lemme see if i can get better

I have no idea why i take grey slayers over grey stalkers atm

so i brought both

and i meant to use the pale stalkers

as my rite of war

to make them

more better er

[jaunty dawn]

stalkers are slightly more like grey hunters iirc

fenrisian axe is S+1 and reaping blow (1), chainswords are Shred (reroll wounds)

reaping blow is extra attacks if you are in base contact with 2 or more enemy models

[naive abyss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959855447966371891/1209447235482296381/rb2pmonfzljc1.webp?ex=65e6f483&is=65d47f83&hm=ecc392d3d9cc742fb9ececd8d18fe73042a167e7ae887a58b13905bd15d062bf&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959855447966371891/1209417685839122482/4lua1nms3mjc1.webp?ex=65e6d8fe&is=65d463fe&hm=e98fb918fd9682a81e5be093346008e43cfd693a33c910d1c9afed6dfc82a4ac&

[jaunty dawn]

yeah grey slayers are basically a unique despoiler variant, while grey stalkers are basically just heresy era grey hunters getting chainswords and special weapons in squads; but are kinda more expensive as a result

[spice flicker]

Hmmm.... with that 1k sons list should I keep the giant double barrel tank that is the LoW or swap it out for something else like more Terminators and those psychic dreadnoughts?

[thin ibex]

Hmm so grey stalkers would be my basic "do a bit of everything" unit

That I could safely take in volume and expect to be able to engage with most things

[spice flicker]

I also am starting to like the idea of a "clean" death guard army since their models aren't as gross as in 40k.

[naive abyss]

thats in part why ive sorta become fond of IW

that and daemon primarch perty being maybe my fave daemon primarch design

well "design tm"

[spice flicker]

He doesn't have a canon design yet no?

[naive abyss]

as a dameon primarch no

not that im aware of

but theres a pretty prevalent and kickass fan design

theres even a decent stl of it

im very into the subtley chaos hyper utilitarian weapon vibe of this kind of IW

where at a glance they may not look chaosy at all but if you look you see bits and pieces of it peeking through

[pastel rampart]

The last one especially, because at first glance you're going "oh big armored dude" and then you notice the goat legs.

[bright dove]

Perty working hard to hide the Daemon parts.

[naive abyss]

i more like the idea of hes only ever like kept any changes he deemed useful

like presumambly the goat legs may literally make him be able to move faster lol

[spice flicker]

Nah it let's him easily scale 92° angle walls

[naive abyss]

lol

[pastel rampart]

He'd do it too, if only to style on IF fortifications.

[naive abyss]

lol yeah

[pastel rampart]

https://i.imgur.com/0ZnKpWV.png

[ebon forge]

Peter Turbo! 👀

There is also one of him before daemon

[naive abyss]

i think part of why im so into this is helps distinct them from chaos warriors. cuz the baseline csm just hit me as like less personally interesting chaos warriors visually. so ultimately i need it to lean into one extreme or another via like the god specific ones or like literally having runes carved into your armor like the WB. or be like the IW where its sorta subtle allot of the time lol

[naive abyss]

i mean tbh at that point id get the official model or etc. also i jsut think daemon pert looks way cooler tbh

like it forever bothers me HH pert has no helmet option

[ebon forge]

yeah I love daemon peter helmet

[naive abyss]

it doesnt help that his pre daemon face/head is cue ball number six

like the primarchs suffer sorta a ludicrous amount from marines have boring heads itis lol

[ebon forge]

yeeeeah, if you put side by side with corrupted Horus is hard to distinguish

[naive abyss]

or even angron

they both literally have cables going into their heads

[ebon forge]

Angron atl east has his tattoos to help

[pastel rampart]

IW also feel like they're only with chaos because they can't stand the imperium, not that they're actually fanatical devotees of the gods.

[naive abyss]

def

like its like that one vashtorr comic about them

[ebon forge]

Yeah and in the end of the The end and the Death 3 ||Perty goes to try and understand chaos to harness it and put order to it||

Therefor
Going BEYOND Turbo

[floral herald]

I wouldn't put it that way haha

[ebon forge]

fak

[ebon forge]

how you would put it?

[naive abyss]

like the IW give big energy of they interact and use chaos cuz they understand it to be useful in the long war against the imperium

[floral herald]

He's gone insane and is becoming the first Obliterator in his goal to amputate all the parts of himself which make him mad and become the perfect weapon

[naive abyss]

like in allot of ways they most closely feel like they match abbadons view on it in a variety of ways

[naive abyss]

i think thats more fanon than anything?

or has been vaguely implied as one of several variant of his current deal lol

[floral herald]

I am literally paraphrasing TD&E III

[naive abyss]

i mean fair but that sorta contradicts like the fact he cuts deals with vashtorr

[ebon forge]

Source time
👏 open the book, Magnus

[naive abyss]

and has like organized several campaigns of conquest and i think currently rules a small IW area of real space now

[ebon forge]

oh sorta of how like, the IW cut any daemon part they receive?

[naive abyss]

Perturabo has collaborated with Vashtorr the Arkifane on many nightmarish technological projects. As such, he provided a complement of Iron Warriors to Vashtorr to assault The Rock during the Arks of Omen Campaign```

like to quote some of his most recent things hes done

[jaunty dawn]

what's the contradiction here

[naive abyss]

i dont think being an insane obliterator is conducive to coordinating grand strategy or cutting deals with powerful warp entities

[ebon forge]

Why is Peter bullying Morty?

[naive abyss]

like that implies hes the techno daemon equivalent of angron i feel

which he isnt

[floral herald]

Perturabo embarking on his goal to become an (The, really) Obliterator

[ebon forge]

There are various degrees of insanity,
He's insane, but a mad genious insane

[jaunty dawn]

I think if angron can co-ordinate strategy then perty can no matter what's happened to him lol

[ebon forge]

yeah

[floral herald]

Yeah he’s seemingly unaware that the warp has leeched into his room and making “data supported” deals with the chaos of the warp

[naive abyss]

ngl i dont feel that translate to obliterator that reads more like what most people thing his daemon apotheosis is

[naive abyss]

he doesnt though

like angron pretty much is used like a "living" wmd

[floral herald]

Angron can coordinate strategy

That's explicit stuff

[jaunty dawn]

he just has to plan around the fact that when he hits the ground running he won't make adjustments

[ebon forge]

He even sounds more sane AFTEr becoming a Daemon too, some-fucking-how

[floral herald]

He's got a somewhat diminished capacity for it now because it makes his head hurt and he's gotta to hit warships with axes but he's still an extremely skill admiral

[naive abyss]

i dont recall any depictions of daemon angron doing much strategy but fair i guess

[ebon forge]

He did made the end of "betrayer" incredibly funny tho

[floral herald]

He routs the unforgiven in space a couple of times

[naive abyss]

i mean thats not him commanding ships as memory serves

[jaunty dawn]

but he can also like, hold himself back enough to be a general when that's what he needs to be

[floral herald]

Memory doesn't serve then

[naive abyss]

its him like flying around fuckign shit up while vashtorr is coordinating most of the assets involved

[floral herald]

I’m reading between the lines a little but it looks to me like Perturabo has come to hate his humanity in that scene

[ebon forge]

But he still despises chaos, right?

[naive abyss]

i mean sure. but again to me that doesnt translate to obliterator. cuz ive imagine like the prior posted daemon primarch perty as mostly if not entirely daemon machine with like the smallest bits of not machine if any non machine.

[jaunty dawn]

oblits are on their way to that

it's a virus, it spreads

[floral herald]

He literally talks about becoming "an embodiment of absolute obliteration" lol

[naive abyss]

it flips flops sometimes with IW and perty i feel. cuz like some have gotten lost in sauce and sometimes perty is also lost in it. while others see it as a tool to wield at best and as just new chains at worse with perty sometimes said to be more aligned to that view as i recall.

[naive abyss]

i mean sure but to me theres a distinction between being a daemon primarch whose like the source of the thing that makes obliterators probably and becoming the first obliterator who has gone insane

[floral herald]

Slightly later

[ebon forge]

So Peter saw this and went "Yes :)"

[floral herald]

I do like how it ends

[floral herald]

I think more "imagined" it, since he's pretty explicit in wanting to become an Athame

The living concept of the act of murder

Or something like that

[ebon forge]

the dagger?

[naive abyss]

its more like i think those are the weird pseudo copies of what he became

[floral herald]

Yeah

[jaunty dawn]

I can respect it

[naive abyss]

cuz imo perts daemon primarch form is conceptually the near perfected version of what an obliterator is aiming to be

[jaunty dawn]

being a person sucks. the athames do crazy shit

[naive abyss]

and i think its implied the scrapcode that causes obliterators was either like made by or derived from pert somehow

though i could be misremembering that as canon when its actually fanon

ultimately with this is also the issue that how pert and the IW are written is often super incosistent as i understand it

[ebon forge]

I am not very familiar with the Athames, what they are actually?

[naive abyss]

theyre basically the first knifes used to kill something as memory serves

[floral herald]

I think I missed this one, but it’s a good insight into his thinking

[naive abyss]

and thus have weird special properties

[thin ibex]

i that line, perty hates equally, make perty king hater?

[naive abyss]

i mean thats maybe one of the few consistent canon things

the IW more or less hate everyone lol

like beyond being the chaos version of techy marines they are the spite chapter

its why i appreciate the fact that abbadon and pert sometimes cooperate with each other

cuz theoretically the two are the most closely aligned in views in the high end leadership of the traitors lol

[unreal cosmos]

"they are weapons because they are weapons" is pretty dope

Borderline Mage-y

Which I guess is fitting for a guy named after Alistair Crowley

[floral herald]

And to be clear I don't mean like "raving and insensate" when I say that Perturabo is insane, I mean that he's filled with the whispers of chaos and doesn't realize it (interpreting the insanity of the warp as cogent data), and wants to turn himself into a living conceptual weapon because of how angry he isn't

[ebon forge]

Perty's sister keeps being correct

[ebon forge]

Peter sadly embraced his spite ,
He say that shit now but he did wanted to be a civil engineer to better people lives

When he was a kid it was one of his first desires

[naive abyss]

fair and that i can see sorta yeah

cuz that ultimately would result i think in what is the general look of IW being like utilitarian with the chaos bits being subtle but still peeking through

[floral herald]

Yeah, they definitely don't venerate the gods like the Word Bearers do but I think they're still pretty warp soaked and do serve them just in a more transactional and "clear headed" (this is part cope imo, but not completely) way

[naive abyss]

yeah like ultimately in one sense or another they are pushing the chaos agenda the same way abbadon is

aka by spreading suffering, death, and bloody war

like i feel abbadon is a decent comparative to what i feel is the general like vibe of IW and how they engage with chaos

like their ultimate goals within the framework differ from each other cuz the IW are just more or less doing it out of spite while abby is trying to win the war still lol

[floral herald]

Abaddon is I think more conscious of that (at least in that novel, where there's a whole thing about him turning down gifts of chaos and noting how extremely alluring they are) but its similar

Yeah Abaddon still wants to make the "new imperium"

[naive abyss]

yeah its a bit different but theres definitely parallels imo

i do like the detail that vashtorr is one of the only warp entities the IW more or less consitently work with cuz hes not ever like doing a double deal or tricking people really

[thin ibex]

oh might try a full CSM infantry only list

obliterators count as infantry right?

[floral herald]

By class yes I think

[naive abyss]

but yeah my interest with IW has also gone up since mk3 armor has finally been scale updated lol

so its no longer a mini nightmare to make 40k IW infantry squads lol

in which you have to clip a bunch of horns and etc off the csm squad

[ebon forge]

And mk3 is dope

[naive abyss]

ye

[floral herald]

IWs in particular benefit from kitbashing yeah since the normal CSM range is a little too greebly for them

[ebon forge]

IW kill team when

[floral herald]

At this rate sooner than I expect

I super didn't see Night Lords getting their own one so fast

[naive abyss]

ill fascinated what itll look like if they get one

cuz theyd have to differentiate it from mk3 at least somewhat

[thin ibex]

boom

i fully accept that chainguns on the legionaries are not ideal

but they are cool as heck

i make no excuses

[ebon forge]

Make them more square-ish and give them that shield were they put the bolter on it?

[thin ibex]

Cyan give me your review, your my current server side CSM person

i feel like abby might be a cop out for an infantry only list

but also with the list being so fragile, he might be necessary

its one scary terminator block thats for sure

[floral herald]

I'm not super sold on the MoT for the legionaries

But it looks generally solid

If it counts as "infantry" enough a Helbrute adds a lot of oomph to a CSM firebase

[thin ibex]

mot?

[floral herald]

(I think MSU legionaries are better employed in melee, especially for shoving people off objectives)

[thin ibex]

ohhh ok

hmm that does make sense, i was mostly building multipurpose units so that they could move, shoot, charge

thus the accursed and heavy wep

chaincannon was a total me pick rather than mechanical

i think they'd be better served with a non heavy weapon if i want them to be a utilitarian pic

but chaincannon is sick

and 8 shots is a lot of shots

to fish for lethals with

[floral herald]

Nah the chaincannon is good - you just probably want Undivided more

[thin ibex]

i WAS a little iffy on going for a devotion or the undivided rr

[floral herald]

You do get Skinshift with MoT which can be nice for keeping the unit strong

If they're not wiped

From a meta perspective I know chaos lords are preferred to sorcs because of Lord of Chaos

[pulsar cairn]

one thing that i remember hearing is that while not being the best, perturabo's adopted father did love him

with that in mind

[floral herald]

The Terminator Sorc is pretty badass though

[pulsar cairn]

maybe things could have different if he just told his dad to fuck off with the war stuff?

[thin ibex]

i was loving the rr charges to make the abby termie group a high octane melee threat, gameplan would be to dominate and overrun the midboard and then live on the mid objective; unless the enemy has no further answers, then id spill further into the enemy deployment

the legionnaires would be generalists but usually going to flank objectives

havocs would hopefully be in buildings in hte backline

[floral herald]

I can see the outline yeah it looks generally solid

A lot of CSM bodies is always a credible list

[thin ibex]

i figure despite not having invulns, 3+ armor and 2 wounds is respectable for a basic body

also obliterators being T7 and 2+ is beefy as hell

[thin ibex]

honestly legionaries as a unit makes CSM in crusade seem fun to me

[naive abyss]

https://www.deviantart.com/a20t43c/art/Missing-SoB-1023126281

[thin ibex]

Prospective crusade list

with the chaos lord being My Guy™️

maaaybe a little melee oriented

but thats not terrible perhaps

[floral herald]

you are CSM

you can have a little melee, as a treat

[thin ibex]

i figure with the helbrute i can dark pact to try and squeese lethals out of hte scourge if anything big comes at me

and the scourge is quite good at erasing smaller things

and the land raidera t 1k points is gonna be a beast

i think as it moves to like 2k, i would want a greater daemon of some kind, maybe a daemon engine. I definitely would want havocs

though obliterators might be a better early pick up

to get them xp

[floral herald]

more fellas would probably not hurt either

[thin ibex]

yeah possibly some cultists, as the warband draws supporters

some bodies

i wish there was a generic raptor lord/leader

like haarkon

but not haarkon

[floral herald]

gone but not forgotten

[thin ibex]

also evil power spear is pretty cool, Haarkon you get points just for that

[floral herald]

Haarkon is dope

[naive abyss]

i appreciate cool spear rep

one thing ive always found odd with 40k though is the kinda like lack of warhammers lol

like sure thunder hammers exist and you see them from time to time