Warhammer and Such

[tardy vault]

Who everyone else says he is

And who he actually is

He is not nearly as skilled as everyone else says he is, but he's also not the bumbling idiot he makes himself out to be (those melee feats are exhibit number 1 lol)

[solemn gull]

Yeah it’s fun pealing back the layers and seeing the guilt and everything else he tries to keep down

They guy is like 6 false personas deep

[pulsar holly]

Finally finished Warmaster the other day, one of the last two Gaunt’s Ghosts books for the Victory arc, and ||I so hope Blenner and Merryn die in Anarch||

Used to like ||Blenner|| but I don’t have much sympathy for them after what happened throughout most of Warmaster

On the one hand you get Commissar characters like Ciaphas Cain, and Ibram Gaunt. And then there’s ||Blenner||

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/0dkjDowM4no?si=HHQw3fXiXGlp3D5f

[pulsar cairn]

yarg

[floral herald]

I think “relatively” is doing a lot of work there haha

But of named 40K people he’s probably pretty high up

[spice flicker]

So I just had a thought regarding 40k and type moon (umbrella that Fate Grand Order and Fate Stay Night fall under.) In Fate Grand Order we are introduced to the concept of "Beasts of Calamity" aka "Sins of Humanity" which are extremely powerful beings that could in theory be existential threats to mankind if they were to ever manifest with little that can counter them. They're an extinction level threat to mankind who are born out of a "sin" of humanity (not necessarily one of the 7 deadly sins since some examples we've gotten so far include Pity, Collapse, Shame, Comparison and Regression) but at the same time it's their corrupted sense of love for humanity that causes them to doom it whenever they manifest.

From the type moon wiki:
"The Beasts are existences born out of the innate flaws within human nature and wisdom itself (thus their name - "Evils of Humanity"), each of them being a different embodiment of a type of "sin" found in all humans. Despite their malice and desire to destroy/corrupt/remake humanity to their individual wills, the Beasts all act out of an overwhelming yet extremely corrupt "love" for humanity in their own way."

I know that all throughout 40k we see that the chaos gods bring nothing but disaster and corruption wherever their influence is felt and that if the emperor was to ever "die" then he could become a 5th chaos God, "The Dark King," as the siege of terra books revealed. The Dark King was described in such a way that if it was to ever fully be realized then mankind, the warp, and all intelligent life in the galaxy would essentially be doomed all because of a prideful man who sought to "save mankind."

To make a long story short, would you say that the Emperor as the Dark King could have the potential to have been a "Beast" representing the sin of hubris or something similar? I know it's a stretch and more of a joking theory and speculation but it did come to mind when I was thinking about how the siege of terra series is over now.

[floral herald]

I’m not familiar with with fate but the later parts of the death and the end give a lot of clarity for what the Dark King is

Basically ||the emperor has learned a technique to turn the fires of chaos back on themselves and shape them, and does this so much he threatens to become a warp god (people convince him to relinquish this power before it’s too late), and if the Emperor turns into the Dark King or the Lord of Ruin to defeat Horus and chaos he’ll never stop, an all destroying all cleansing god which ends all life in the universe forever||

I think the name “Lord of Ruin” is particularly interesting

Because the Dark King isn’t the only god with that epithet

The Horned Rat also has it

[pulsar holly]

He becomes the new god for the Skaven to enter 40k, yes-yes

Did ||Ollanius Persson|| survive the final book?

[floral herald]

||absolutely not Horus uses the Claw of Horus to red mist him over the emperor’s fallen body||

I mean that fella is hard to kill but…

[spice flicker]

Which further solidifies the joke and theory that we'll never get 40k skaven because that's the Imperium as a whole already.

[floral herald]

I was thinking of it sort of the other way around - that the Horned Rat is the Dark King of fantasy and destined to destroy the world

Kinda makes all those “died to skaven” end times resolutions make a little more sense :p

[tired cairn]

I like the argument that the Imperium can't be Skaven because Skaven say things funny things like "yes, yes" and the Imperium says things that are cringe

[pulsar holly]

The Imperium do be saying a lot of cringe shit

[floral herald]

The imperium says “aye aye” instead

[spice flicker]

I mean now that I think about it the rise of a potential 5th member of the chaos god quartet did spell ruin for two different settings. One got completely obliterated with the potential 5th god becoming even more powerful and replacing slaanesh for the post part in the quartet officially. The other setting managed to avoid the rise at the last moment which did cause irreparable damage to the setting but it did "survive" with the quartet still as it was.

[tired cairn]

Anglo navies in shambles

[pastel rampart]

||Isn't he still a perpetual?||

[pulsar holly]

Weeeellll

[floral herald]

||yes but Horus was super strong and he died in the special part of the warp Horus had in stopped time to kill the emperor in so idk if that blew out his perpetualness||

It doesn’t conclusively say that he’s dead-dead though

[pastel rampart]

Probably leaving it open-ended for future plans.

[spice flicker]

Watch the guard eventually get Oll as a living Saint. ||perpetualness destroyed but declaration of dedication to the emperor if he got to as well as sacrifice used as justification for his ascension/returned. That's my bet.||

[pastel rampart]

That or ||he reformed somewhere else, saw how shit was going and decided "yeah I'm just gonna stick to my farm" and he's been doing that for 10k years.||

||Really, the apples he grows are delicious, you should try them.||

[floral herald]

||we actually get the start of the ollanius pious myth at the end of the book, Actae is telling some excertus about it||

[spice flicker]

||I mean it could still happen. Guard havent gotten their codex yet so a none 0% chance that Guard's 10th edition new unit could be Ollianus the First Saint.||

[spice flicker]

How do you spoiler images?

[floral herald]

It’s a box you can tick when uploading them

[pulsar holly]

By uncovering the image and reading the spoiler
(There should be a checkbox for spoiler marking it when you click on an image when uploading)

[spice flicker]

I mostly use mobile so i guess that's why I don't see the box but anyway yeah that's what I am betting for 10th.

[floral herald]

I think it’d be really funny if they made that guy the first saint

[spice flicker]

Or maybe for HH if they haven't done it yet.

[naive abyss]

I don't think mobile has that though I think?

[pulsar holly]

On mobile you have to tap the image after selecting it before uploading

[naive abyss]

It's weird on mobile

[floral herald]

Since he’s not only not a follower of the imperial cult he’s also a catholic

[naive abyss]

I just get and image link and use the text command spoiler

[floral herald]

Yeah this is what I did

This is a spoiled mobile screenshot

[spice flicker]

I mean ||we saw samus being born out of garvial's corpse and living saints are implied to be created by faith and miracles so whose to say a daemon and a living Saint (who took his sweet time manifesting) weren't both unintentially/unwillingly "born" that day?||

Ah I see

||for those wondering it was Erebus as always with an athame in the back while garvial was talking to abbadon and mourning horus.||

[floral herald]

They must have amnesia, they forgot that I’m him

Erebus, probably

[pastel rampart]

Dracula Flow but it's Erebus, hell yes

[onyx elm]

Watching a late 90s early 00s show called, "Sharpe." Starring Sean Bean, and it's great reference material to the BS the Imperial Guard puts up with.

[spice flicker]

Isn't Sharpe an inspiration for the Gaunt's Ghost books? IIRC Gaunt's appearance was based on Sean Bean's appearance in that.

[floral herald]

There’s a lot of Sharpe in 40K

[spice flicker]

From what I can recall, Sharpe is to Gaunt's Ghosts as Blackadder is to Ciaphas Cain's stories.

[upper canopy]

HUMANS ARE SKAVEN IN 40k CANONIZEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[spice flicker]

Also seemingly helped make sense of so much of end time's usage of factions getting nommed by skaven. Chaos by itself was a major threat in End Times but with the plays by the GHR and Skaven a lot of potential obstacles were taken out paving the way for Chaos ultimate victory. Now imagine what would have happened it 40k's Lord of Ruin was allowed to actually form?

[ebon forge]

THE HELL DID I MISS

[solemn gull]

I love this sentence

What could be adjacent to cadia

[spice flicker]

Discussion regarding whether the emperor ascended would qualify as a Beast from FGO, discussion of Ollianus' fate at the end of the last SoT book as well as potential for him being a living saint, ||Erebus killing Garviel||, and connections between 40k's Dark King/fantasy's Great Horned Rat.

[ebon forge]

ooooh thank you

[naive abyss]

Hell yeah

[thin ibex]

Silly no terminators list

[onyx elm]

I just remembered that the Flashman historical fiction novels we're also a direct inspiration for the Cain books.

[spice flicker]

Yep as I've heard Cain described as "Flashman but as a better person."

[onyx elm]

Yeah, Flashman is a straight up dope who keeps on living through his cowardice.

[pulsar cairn]

if Abbadon ran a business

what would it be about

[thin ibex]

hating

H8er's Inc

[floral herald]

bartender

[pulsar cairn]

why

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/lcdccz/book_excerpttalon_of_horus_abbadon_the_barmen/

Abaddon is a home brewer

[thin ibex]

would you drink Despoiler Brand moonshine?

[pulsar cairn]

ok i believe you

also wtf

[floral herald]

You mean Vengeful Spirits?

[pastel rampart]

Fuck you I was gonna make that joke

[thin ibex]

Big burninators

i know the valiant doesn't benefit from the detachment rule BUT its got a beefy flamthrower anyway

and is a shot magnet

drop pod infernus marines for some reason appeal to me

i think impulsor laden infernus probably work better though

[floral herald]

the fate of drop pods in recent editions makes me sad

so expensive

and only getting 3 is wack

[naive abyss]

Glad to see it's easy to leave the wings off the bone dragon

[jaunty dawn]

kinda interesting how in 3rd edition drop pods were basically stormcast

[floral herald]

How so? (I don't know anything about stormcast)

[jaunty dawn]

cause they didnt have models yet

stormcast can deep strike half their army

its like their main faction rule

coming down in lightning bolts

[floral herald]

that's cool

I remember people making all sorts of weird scratchbuilt pods

[jaunty dawn]

in 3rd editions case it was basically

if you dont take tanks you can deep strike everything

[floral herald]

there was a (fairly brief iirc) period where you had drop pod rules but no model iirc

[jaunty dawn]

the first drop pods were forgeworld and only carried 5 ppl for some reason dbdhdb

so those had rules as an actual unit in early imperial armour

to the lexicanum miniatures portal batman noise

current plastic drop pod 2008

for 5e codex

so yeah they became a unit in the 4e codex but still didnt have an appropriate model

[floral herald]

Forge World did have a deathstorm drop pod at the time but IIRC it was rare cause it was expensive as FUCK

Oh my god I forgot about this thing

[jaunty dawn]

imperial armour 2 has this design for a drop pod, with 5 ppl

[floral herald]

I like the look of all that exposed cabling

[jaunty dawn]

nd also the 3 door dreadnought one which is still around I think

[floral herald]

I guess its still around just more obvious in that B&W

[thin ibex]

its surprisingly hard to spam flamers with SM rn

[past sphinx]

its the only FW object ive ever truely desired in my heart

[thin ibex]

effectively infernus marines, aggressors, and then one off flamers amongst tactical squads and dreads

[past sphinx]

its perfect

its insane

[floral herald]

This fucks

[jaunty dawn]

tank grocer's

[floral herald]

Man, this actually did not age well from 2002

[thin ibex]

oh why's that

[floral herald]

Uncomfortably similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wittmann

[jaunty dawn]

oof

[thin ibex]

ohhh

yeah

[floral herald]

It's not like a huge red flag but its really "early 2000s wargame fan" feeling haha

[runic swallow]

Yeah, that’s definitely just wargames brain

[thin ibex]

the legendary space marine chapter "the Red Hands"

[lime gulch]

1998 is the trademark on the box

It's really neat digging through this stuff

[pastel rampart]

Hell yeah

[jaunty dawn]

damn. didnt know terminators got their 5+ invuln in the day's equivalent of a balance dataslate

[floral herald]

Oh did they?

[jaunty dawn]

yup

they were doing real bad cause everyone was using plasma spam

which really is a problem that 40k has never really fixed huh

[thin ibex]

well its not as crazy now

since they cant really effectively threaten the biggest bois

but they're still great generalists

[jaunty dawn]

that and all power weapons ignored their armour while hitting at initiative

and I dont think lightning claw terms existed yet

[floral herald]

las/plas spam was super meta for a while

Kinda worked on everything and hordes were generically weak

[jaunty dawn]

not sure what white dwarf it was from but its in the 2001 chapter approved compilation

second book of the astronomican

[floral herald]

Aha

Before my time I didn't realize it was added like that

[floral herald]

I started playing later in 4e when Orks got their 4e/5e codex and briefly ruled competitive play

[jaunty dawn]

I think by the 4th edition codex it had been incorporated fully

[floral herald]

That sounds right

[jaunty dawn]

interesting small bit from someone who wasn't a fan of command squads all your eggs in one basket approach (and back then that was a techmarine too) and suggests rules for assigning them out to squads. and one of the options is an attack bike but with an apoth or something in the sidecar avdhddv

[floral herald]

Oh I like that, command squads always felt a little weird to me

Since lore wise an Apothecary is supposed to move around between squads behind the line of advance not just buff up the captain

[jaunty dawn]

hehe

gk are space cops

they need jurisdiction

they were already saying this in 2001 damnn

[thin ibex]

Can i get a Waaagh!!!?

[floral herald]

that's a lotta green

[jaunty dawn]

waaagh

[floral herald]

What do kustom force fields do now?

[thin ibex]

5++ against ranged, one per battle 4++

[floral herald]

not bad

It was super strong in 5e when it gave a 5+ cover save to all units in a 6" bubble around the model

But still seems quite strong

[lime gulch]

While looking through these I found the application received letter dated year of my birth for when my gpa applied to work at wizards

[jaunty dawn]

oh wow

[lime gulch]

Does anyone know what these are

[naive abyss]

i think those are epic dwarfs

i forget the name of the fantasy equivalent

warmaster? i think?

[lime gulch]

Are they for like a particular version of the game?

It's a tiny scale

[naive abyss]

yeah its for the like epic scale game for fantasy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmaster

[lime gulch]

Ahhh

[lime gulch]

Okay, that makes sense.

Are these bretonians or some alternate history game that was released.

[naive abyss]

those appear to be bretonnians but not one hundred on it

[lime gulch]

That's kind of the same boat that we are in.

[naive abyss]

or some of them are

[lime gulch]

There's also

[naive abyss]

cuz some have crosses and appear to be woman

[lime gulch]

All of this stuff that's laid out is games workshop

But some of it doesn't look like Warhammer fantasy

Like these two from these images just look like samurai not like high elves and not like Nippon

[floral herald]

I'm relatively confident those are old Reaper samurai models

My dad had some

nvm

They just look similar

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155401195858

I think they're these

The models don't look the same but they have the same AEG stamp

[lime gulch]

Oh yes those are definitely the AEG samurai

There is this guy

[naive abyss]

its might be gw historicaly stuff

i forget how much of that they made

[lime gulch]

But that did exist?

Also here's everything we could find of his Warhammer classic. Seems all bret and w.e.

Plus some slayer dwarves

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVYNK3Gwrgk&t=1s

[bold halo]

warhammer historical def existed, looks like it ran 1998-2013

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xr0TQhcIkI

[pastel rampart]

Those're all Bretts, yeah.

http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Main_Page btw, good resource for a whole host of models.

http://www.solegends.com/ as is the ol' faithful

[unreal cosmos]

My wife owns some Warmaster vampire models, they're pretty good

tiny skeletons look great slapchopped even without the contrast

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuzAFP7fqzA

[crisp lance]

https://tenor.com/view/ciaphas-cain-40k-tts-device-impostor-syndrome-impostor-gif-18110598

[pulsar cairn]

[crisp lance]

https://youtu.be/oRozBAIbaG4

"god I am such a piece of shit!"
-Cain while strangling a hive tyrant to death to save a baby

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1752855818293203127

[naive abyss]

very cursed take but 40k would work great as a hero shooter

imo

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/kinveyl/status/1752260052994404583

https://vxtwitter.com/kinveyl/status/1750454454090944661

https://vxtwitter.com/kinveyl/status/1748575035747356724

https://vxtwitter.com/kinveyl/status/1736321910412046811

ngl i really like this persons art

[dense sedge]

Abelard has really gotten associated with the power hammer

[naive abyss]

thunder hammer. but yes lol

[floral herald]

Dang Phobos are eatin

I will not collect space marines
I will not collect space marines
I will not collect space marines
I will not collect space marines
I will not collect space marines

[solemn gull]

Probably although the inevitable limbo of balance updates would probably make my lore brain shrivel up

[floral herald]

Those redeploy changes are really nice though

[naive abyss]

i mean tbh a 40k hero shooter would very much exist in mvc hammer space to me lol

[floral herald]

I've been increasingly drawn to the idea of an Imperial Fists recon/sappers army concept

Stealthy scouts for ranging siege cannons with

[floral herald]

I think there's only one way to do it

Trazyn Trophy Tournament

And I like the idea of putting them in camo with yellow highlights

[naive abyss]

yeah that could be the framework conceit lol

tbh beyond that i sorta do honestly want either a lov drg or mines of moria

like it would be so hocky and homework copying but i kinda dont care lol

[solemn gull]

Meant more like, weapon balances and what not to make it playable

[naive abyss]

my prior about hammerspace still applies lol

like overwatch weapon damages if you actually think about them make no sense

but that because everything in the game is hammerspace logic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rBdA8E_Hcc

i continue to love not 40k with modern societal parody baked into the background lore

[past sphinx]

Same ring to it as "Steiner scout lance"

[unreal cosmos]

I would honestly love to see a 40k hero shooter with a sense of humor and, say, a hero for each army

[naive abyss]

Def

Hell you can have multiple from each faction even

[unreal cosmos]

Trazyn would be an easy hook but some kind of Drukhari arena also fits

[naive abyss]

I'd prefer trazyn tbh

Cuz it's funny

[unreal cosmos]

Definitely but I'd want one apiece before doubling up lol. I think that makes a solid opening roster

[naive abyss]

Nerd playing with his toys

[naive abyss]

For sure

[unreal cosmos]

What would be a good fit for support hero? Sister Hospitaller?

Add some "miracles" for cleric vibes

[storm schooner]

Most armies have a medic type character

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah but if it's one apiece you gotta pick which have the best medic option

[naive abyss]

Necron

Chronomancer

Rewind their health

[unreal cosmos]

Haemonculi are a good fit too

[naive abyss]

But yeah you could fit allot of support stuff on a chronomancer

Slows, heals,revives, etc

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/CerberusXt/status/1752656256655839556

[jaunty dawn]

ye olde metawatch

circa 2001 ish, 3rd edition

[bright dove]

I'm proud of the Guard there.

[jaunty dawn]

kinda interesting to see a time where necrons had less games than sisters

tau not even out yet

[bright dove]

This is not only pre personality, it's before they get some interesting units.

[jaunty dawn]

yup

[bright dove]

Pariahs are still here even.

[jaunty dawn]

their first codex is so barebones

this plus monolith

[bright dove]

Yep. Basically comes down to "Hope you like Warriors"

[jaunty dawn]

wraiths were still necrons even

still kinda cool they brought that back in 9th as a destroyer type

[naive abyss]

clone Wars vibe lol

I dig it tbh

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/01/heresy-thursday-scout-fast-and-strike-hard-with-the-hot-rod-sentinel-of-the-solar-auxilia/

[ebon forge]

Walkers

[graceful hollow]

Im so glad theyre getting new models

[jaunty dawn]

i love flame mech

[graceful hollow]

Loved the initial forge world realise like 7 years ago and then nothing

[jaunty dawn]

hes such a lad

[naive abyss]

Box of two stick which is nice

[pulsar cairn]

are these new models?

[bright dove]

It's a nice walker.

[ebon forge]

I love mechs that show so much... 'mechanical' parts, if that makes sense

damn I wonder if there is a fun ttprpg about mechs around here for only 25$!
We can only dream

[naive abyss]

Yes

[thin ibex]

What's today's topic friends

[bright dove]

Hedonites of Slaanesh army that feels like it's having the least fun in a fight

Just try to grab those "Fiiiiine, we'll fight in the name of excess, I guess" vibes

Partly because the descriptions of how Hedonites love their fights feels weird to me

[naive abyss]

How so?

[bright dove]

It's just the whole "enjoy the excesses and exploits of battle" feels immediately more like Khorne

[long void]

The mindset about engaging in battle is one element of the Khorne and Slaanesh animosity.

Similar, but with critical differences.

[thin ibex]

the thing about khorne is that being excessive is adjacent to the point, for slaaneshi's it IS the point

which means there can be some visual/outcome overlap

[naive abyss]

Yeah khorne doesn't enjoy it there is only anger and the drive to take blood and skulls

Like no one doing khorne is having fun

They're just angry

[jaunty dawn]

slaanesh will prolong a battle to get more suffering

khorne will end a battle so they can start a new one faster

[naive abyss]

Slaanesh enjoys violence especially in excess

[thin ibex]

a lot of khornes excessive violence is to make stuff die faster and bleed more, not for the sake of being excessive, yeah

[naive abyss]

Yeah

And like there isn't joy in it

Just the drive to kill and anger

[bright dove]

I dunno, a lot of Horne viewpoint characters do have a great time

Khorne, bluh

[naive abyss]

Most I've read don't lol

They're like usually some combo of miserable, angry, or bloodlusted

Like the world eaters aren't having fun

They're just insane with anger and bloodlust

[thin ibex]

i do think there's also, though, for khornates who take joy in what they're doing, its joy in the murder and killing, not joy in being excessive or joy in inflicting pain

[bright dove]

I am talking Fantasy for my bit

[thin ibex]

The infliction of pain is just a natural consequence of what they're doing

[naive abyss]

Even then

Like the one khorne character I can think of off hand for fantasy is just angry

And that's the hamnerer

[bright dove]

AoS/Fantasy Khornates are ready to make the world bleed.

[naive abyss]

That or skarbrand

I mean yes

But but not for pleasure

[bright dove]

Skarbrand is explicitly having a Bad Time

[naive abyss]

They are ready to make it bleed to acquire the blood

[thin ibex]

i think there's also a level of "a khornate champion might take satisfaction in martial superiority" vs "a slaaneshi champion will revel in martial superiority"

[bright dove]

There's also that one Champion that shows up in early Grotek and Felix, specifically taking immense pleasure in stomping the lifeblood out of empire citizens that made her life miserable

[naive abyss]

I mean that's anger and not personal level satisfaction in revenge

[bright dove]

She is very much taking personal satisfaction

[naive abyss]

A slaaneshi in that spot wouldn't had just rip and teared them

That's not excess though

It's just her personal level satisfaction in her act of revenge

[bright dove]

I thoughts we were talking Khornates who go "I love doing this"

[thin ibex]

i don't think khornates are completely bereft of personal satisfaction or pride in service to anger, i think anger is just their biggest lighthouse

[naive abyss]

Like if it was slaanesh the revenge would be some stuff like "I enslaved your whole family and now you must watch me do horrible shit to them"

[bright dove]

They're definitely angry first, yeah

[naive abyss]

Personal satisfaction is different to like god driven pleasure and excess lol

Like a khornate doesn't care how they kill as long as they kill

Slaneeshi must kill perfectly and beautifully

It must be excessive on how it is done

[thin ibex]

Love me job
'ate Slaanesh
Love me skulls
'ate power weapons
Love spilling blood
'ate Tzeentch

Simple as

[jaunty dawn]

(not monotheist just don't loik em)

[naive abyss]

Like its basically gorilla with rabies vs skinned dancing ballerina with a knife made of human bones lol

[bright dove]

It just comes down to my old bugbear of "But why do Slaaneshi worshippers care about the fights in Fantasy?"

[long void]

The battlefield is their performance

[jaunty dawn]

I mean

they all still ultimately wanna destroy the world overall right

[pastel rampart]

If enjoying killing was enough to get someone to fall to Slaanesh then the entire imperium would be under her thrall.

[jaunty dawn]

in terms of long term goals

[pastel rampart]

Hell, all of the orks would too.

[naive abyss]

Also they are indulging in pleasurable excessive violence

[bright dove]

Khorne wants the blood, Nurgle wants the converts, Tzeentch wants a plan to do its thing

[naive abyss]

Like its like written on the tin

[jaunty dawn]

also a sprinkle of the ones who don't aren't the ones training to fight

[naive abyss]

Slaanesh wants excess and perfection

[long void]

meticulously perfect martial prowess of battle vs the grimy and brutal attrition of war.

[thin ibex]

I think its because fights, in general, are incredibly multifaceted in their conduct, outcome, and attitudes therein

[naive abyss]

Like its literally this lol

[thin ibex]

and tehre is also a great deal of overlap for chaos domains, all of whom participate in fights and for one reason or another can favor it

[bright dove]

This is a wargame first, so of course factions are here to fight

[thin ibex]

all death and killing is worship to khorne, but also every change of a living person to a corpse is worship to tzeentch, every moment of joy in the pain inflicted is worship to slaanesh, every rotting corpse becoming home to disease and carrion feeders is worship to nurgle

[floral herald]

Same energy

[thin ibex]

hey wait a minute, light sentinels? Is the dream of elysian drop sentinels still alive?

also yes same energy

[bright dove]

I just don't get why Slaanesh would push some of their followers to war

[thin ibex]

because there is art and excess in war

slaanesh isn't just soft hedonism

[bright dove]

No, there's art and excess in bartles

[thin ibex]

i disagree

apparently so does slaanesh

[bright dove]

War, inevitably, becomes a grimy mess

[floral herald]

Excessively so one might say

[long void]

i'd imagine of slaanesh's blessings is to never get dirty

the grime just rolls off, don't worry about it

[jaunty dawn]

idk

[thin ibex]

considering the state of the emperor's children flagship during their turn to slaanesh during the heresy; i think slaanesh is not SO concerned with fastidiousness unless its specifically excessive. So it might manifest that way sometimes

[jaunty dawn]

being covered in mud and gore is like

part of it

[thin ibex]

other times you'd excessively gross

[jaunty dawn]

for some ppl

[thin ibex]

what matters is not the cleanliness, its the excessiveness

[long void]

but it would be aesthetic mud

[bright dove]

I also don't want to imagine the nightmare of Slaaneshi supply lines

[thin ibex]

slaaneshi converted artists were painting in feces and blood to make their "master pieces" and effectively the theme wasnt' the actual artistic output but the nature of pushing every percieved boundary

slaanesh is also, as i understand it, sometimes a fickle god; in that if you don't keep pushing to greater heights of excess in your craft, your behavior, your aesthetic, what have you, you can be abandoned in a heartbeat

[naive abyss]

Slaanesh can be grimy

They're literally excess in all things lol

[soft willow]

Someone out there is trying to perfect logistics and keeps the drugs flowing.

[floral herald]

This might be a weird comparison but I think a Slaanesh aligned military would look sort of like the USAF in desert storm, just insanely high tempo goals to make as many bombings and sorties as possible and all the pilots are on hardcore stimulants to need less sleep to keep the planes flying more

[thin ibex]

effectively, slaanesh can result in excessively regimented and perfect logistics as easily as they might fall into an excessively disorganized and useless logistics train

the main point is the excessiveness

[bright dove]

It's not just drugs. It's the food, the wines, all the other excesses that they push

[naive abyss]

Like they are for the warrior who wants to fight perfectly and experiences an excess of pleasure in killing

[soft willow]

Airdrop a burger king in for morale.

[bright dove]

But Slaanesh doesn't want you to do just one type of excess

It's constantly pushing for more

[naive abyss]

Not only that

[bright dove]

Actually

[soft willow]

https://tenor.com/view/billy-idol-more-more-more-more-more-more-dance-vibing-gif-17938963

[thin ibex]

slaanesh is very much a god of extremes, half measures are unacceptable, hesitance is unacceptable

[bright dove]

I now have a reason that Slaanesh goes to war

They burn out their soldiers

[naive abyss]

It's also pursue one things perfection forever to an excessive degree

[bright dove]

Eventually, the joy is gone

[naive abyss]

Not always

[bright dove]

It's time to get rid of this crop of burnouts

[floral herald]

There’s also the thing about crazy feats, like the Slaanesh aligned Chosen Of Abaddon turned the whole population of a hive world into a magic potion of invulnerability and drank it

[naive abyss]

Like Ngl I feel you've made a weird arbitrary set of rules/box for slaanrsh

[floral herald]

(And it worked, he’s apparently invulnerable)

[thin ibex]

slaanesh is also that patron god where initially the push to improve, to break boundaries has you excelling at your art. But then it changes, like an addiction, to pushing harder and harder just to keep up, to maintain your worship, and it hollows you out, burns you out and kills you. The Masque is a great example of this

[naive abyss]

Like slaanesh at war makes plenty of sense imo

[bright dove]

Burnout consistently happens to Slaanesh's chosen

[naive abyss]

War is excessive in so many ways

[thin ibex]

im pretty sure saying "everything in moderation" gets you killed in the slaanesh neighborhoods

[soft willow]

Unless you're doing moderation excessively.

[bright dove]

The hedonite lifestyle clashes heavily with the mud and muck that all war inevitably descends into

War can be excessive

[past sphinx]

war in an of itself is something that can become an obsession both on the micro and the macro

[bright dove]

But it's not the excess that Slaanesh has made their name for pushing

[past sphinx]

something a general or a soldier can devote themsleves to the perfection of

perfection doesnt mean clean

the sharpest sword is best served plunged into a neck not on the wall

[thin ibex]

generally, your average dude in the military will take actions that contribute as small worships to every chaos god while in the line of duty, none of them are true acts of singular devotion

but they all count

[naive abyss]

I feel you're trying to apply to specific a thing on slaanesh Ngl

Which isn't the only thing they are

[naive abyss]

Like slaanesh is not constantly clean

It's often even the opposite

#excessively covered in various fluids and loving it

Like hedonites could be a warband obsessed with having blood splatter in "artistic ways" on themselves as they conduct their killing dance

And like you paint weird artsy blood splatter on the models

[solemn gull]

Looks awesome I dig the jungle camp

[long void]

that's a good theme on how Slaanesh followers will reduce non-coverts into instruments (literally and figuratively).

[thin ibex]

I think also, the perspective on what is artistic or aesthetic are not object, rather they are intensely subjective to tastes that get warped excessively

A slaaneshi will see art and aesthetic in things we see as repulsive, foul, wrong, garish, etc

That we don't see the art in it doesn't make it not art to the prospective slaanesh cultist

Hell sometimes that's even the point

[pine matrix]

I'm actually gonna be able to play standard 40k for the first time this month

I've played some games of Killteam and one game of Horus Heresy but I've never actually played any edition of 40k

[unreal cosmos]

Love to see it!

Also I think the big preceding discussion has definitely driven home something I already feel about the Chaos Gods, which is they don't hold up to intense scrutiny that well lol

I think the most accurate description of the Four I've seen is "the fundamental human emotions of Angry, Wizard, Zombie, and Gay"

[orchid venture]

i mean what other emotions do you have bc that covers it for me

[unreal cosmos]

Inside Out could have been so much better

To be clear I like the Four, they're fun to play around with, but as a means of classifying human behavior they rank right below D&D Alignments for actual utility, which is pretty low

Yeah it's hard to draw a line between the one whose gimmick is "excess" when everyone else's gimmick is "something specific in excess"

[unreal cosmos]

Also hey, congrats! What army have you got?

[tired cairn]

Are they supposed to be the fundamental emotions? I thought they are just the strongest ones because the 41st millennium sucks

[pine matrix]

Dark Eldar! Gonna go fast and Be Evil

[unreal cosmos]

Hella 👍 packed with character

[tepid stratus]

The fundamental difference is the other three are compelled into their excesses while slaanesh worshippers are excessive for the sake of indulgence. A khorne worshipper and a slaanesh worshipper want to kill a lot of people but the khorne worshipper is there for the kill specifically while the slaanesh worshipper is doing it for a more abstract reason like killing in a specific way or to experience the dying breath of their foes or even just to perfect their fighting style out of pride

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah but at the same time it usually comes down to what color they're wearing

[thin ibex]

gmmm

[unreal cosmos]

Like I wouldn't look at a World Eater who's especially prideful and say "ah he's actually worshipping the other one"

[thin ibex]

army theme? I could try and make an EC themed army but there's not a lot to work with is there?

[tepid stratus]

Yet you can't look at the noise marine trying to atomize you so he can snort the dust leftover and say he's anything but slaanesh

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah because he's wearing purple

[thin ibex]

i mean, the slannesh noise marine is making skulls, but he's not about making skulls

[unreal cosmos]

Meanwhile there's no meaningful difference for a berkerker who loves drinking blood, it's aesthetic

[tepid stratus]

Well having read Angron: Red Angel it seems all the berserkers care about is spilling blood and killing. Even the saner and more ambitious ones just think about bigger and better ways to kill more people. For them the kill is the point, for the others it's what they can get from that kill whether it's a high, alchemical resource, souls, corpse mulch. They all kill recklessly but it's how they kill and what they do with the bodies that make the difference

Sure a world eater and an EC might both be cannibals but the world eater is just gonna rip and tear, the EC is gonna make a full meal out of you because a raw corpse got boring

[naive abyss]

I mean that's true of literally anything where violence is the focus if you boil the bones hard enough

Like turns out intent and aesthetic matter allot for differentiation

[unreal cosmos]

I think I did go a little too far in the other direction, it's not all as equivalent as I was implying

Like you're right about the differences between an EC and a WE

What bugs me more is people who try and split hairs about it like they're a real thing, you know?

There's a lot of interesting nuance in the depictions of the gods and their followers but at the roots the Angry/Wizard/Zombie/Gay axis is as accurate an assessment of the guiding principles as anything more Jungian

[floral herald]

Slaanesh has the least clear “niche” as well

[unreal cosmos]

We haven't been talking about him but I think it's also worth saying that when people discuss Nurgle there's always this kinda awkward rushed "tell it's not JUST literal disease, it's stagnation and complacency" but it's very easy to find stuff that goes directly against that

Nurgle really likes changing people, actually

[tepid stratus]

Nurgle is a paradox in being a god of stagnation and a god of cycles

Really depends on the writer

[naive abyss]

I have issues with slaanesh being summized as "gay" Ngl

[tepid stratus]

In AOS the cycle of corruption is a big deal for him

[unreal cosmos]

I don't like it either but like, it's what's there

[tepid stratus]

Yeah same, could have at least used drugs as the one note epithet

[naive abyss]

It's really not

Like nothing about slaanesh is overly gay coded

Beyond harmful stereotypes of the idea of being queer

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah

[tepid stratus]

Or just sex, that's a pretty encompassing umbrella to summarize how hack writers handle slaanesh

[unreal cosmos]

That's kind of what I meant

[naive abyss]

This

[naive abyss]

I more mean people ascribing slaaneshes traits as gay are doing the stereotypes

Not that slaanesh has been given them by writers cuz honestly not really

[unreal cosmos]

Do you not think "kinda fruity" is a keystone element in how the EC are written, even if the authors wouldn't say it out loud?

[naive abyss]

But yeah it's why hedonites are my fave slaanesh stuff atm

[naive abyss]

No

Also can we not use the descriptor "kinda fruity" tbh

[unreal cosmos]

Sorry, again I'm just trying to describe what I see as an 80s British Dude mindset

[tepid stratus]

Yeah aside from Fulgrim himself I wouldn't ascribe "fruity" to any of the other major EC characters. Saul, Eidolon, Lucius, Fabius and Rylanor all have their own destinations from "fruity"

[naive abyss]

It's not three eighties fuck people still using that boiled down version of the bones

They're chuds

Just say sex

Cuz that's usually the boring bone it's boiled to

[naive abyss]

Also we can just say queer coding or feminine ffs

[thin ibex]

my usual thing with slaanesh is that its about the excess rather than a specific type of excess, and like the others, has elements expressed in the worship of any other chaos god. Tzeentch, god of change, is present when anything changes; Khorne is there when blood is spilled and someone dies; nurgle is there when anything stagnates or decays, and tzeentch is there anytime anything is taken to an extreme or excess

[unreal cosmos]

Feminine might actually be the most direct angle actually, thanks

Idk I think Fabius is kinda serving

[naive abyss]

I mean that's literally what chuds mean when they say fruity

Just they use the chud word for it lol

[thin ibex]

so like, a khorne berserker beheading a corpse gratuitously with a chain weapon is, yes, devoting to khorne; but the body is changing from a living person to a dead corpse, the spray of blood and viscera and the results from the chainsaw is excessive, and the body becomes fertile ground for disease and decay

[tepid stratus]

I also think using the EC as the barometer for slaanesh is a bit poor when we literally have the daemon faction

And also the fantasy side of things

[still warren]

No offense but I don't know any chuds calling something fruity at this point it's only Twitter gays using it ironically.

[naive abyss]

I live in the south and I promise you there's chuds using it

[unreal cosmos]

For the record I was hearing it as Homer Simpson describing the act of voting

[tepid stratus]

Funny enough in Red Angel a blood angel gets tempted by slaanesh by having him become obsessed with the spray patterns of blood

[naive abyss]

It's their "polite" way of talking about it

[unreal cosmos]

On a certain level a weird devil with one boob and crab claws is what a certain kind of guy perceives gay people as

[naive abyss]

But yes if actually lgbtq+ want to use it just to refer to themselves like with the f word that's fine and even good reclamation

But that wasn't the convo here

[naive abyss]

That doesn't make them right

Like why are we using some asshat living in a caves outdated boiled bones lol

[unreal cosmos]

I'm saying it's where they come from

Even if it wasn't intentional

[tepid stratus]

And yet we've moved so far beyond that

[naive abyss]

Also tbh I don't agree that was the start

[unreal cosmos]

Message deleted because I was getting away from my original point

[naive abyss]

Someone wanted the sexy daemons

That's the actual bone with chud filters removed

[unreal cosmos]

But I also think I've said what I wanted to say

[naive abyss]

You can even see that in old sculpts real easily lol

[unreal cosmos]

I don't think you are wrong but I also think it's not necessarily incompatible with my argument lol.

[tepid stratus]

What even is the argument at this point? Didn't this start with "all chaos marines are the same but paint jobs make us think they're different when they're not"?

[floral herald]

Originally this was about the chaos gods not really representing deep archetypes

[unreal cosmos]

I did kind of lose the plot. I just think that while the chaos gods have some strong themes they're ultimately kind of arbitrary

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah p much

[floral herald]

I think the ultimately core of all of the 4 at the very root of it is essentially “I think metal music is very very cool” and nearly everything streams from that

[unreal cosmos]

And I think that allowing for blurry lines can make things more enjoyable

But I never got around to saying it

[tepid stratus]

Even today a lot of the art decisions seem to boil down to "can we make this a sick album cover?" And you know what that gave us the 9th edition CSM cover art

[floral herald]

Yeah I think in universe its a lot more ambiguous

And I expect that at least among the more uh... thoughtful followers of chaos there's a lot of arguing about the minutia of what's what pantheon wise

Though I do have a weird fan theory brewing from the new HH book

[unreal cosmos]

To elaborate, it grinds my gears when, say, someone tries to argue that an Unaligned faction leans more towards one of the four because they're trying to filter everything through the lens of falling into one of four categories that don't actually describe any fundamental reality

[floral herald]

Where the emperor and Horus having "aspects" is something which gets talked about a lot about how the emperor uses various guises and aspects to like focus his power ||(Horus and the Emperor fight like a hundred parallel allegorical battles as various aspects before abstracting their conflict so much they start using divinatory cards)||. And its made me wonder if something like that wasn't what the Emperor stole from the gods on Molech some "aspect" of them in their myriad contradictory semiotic forms

[long void]

Chaos would seem really unchaotic if there were really specific rules about the influence the big 4 have over things

[unreal cosmos]

Actually another way to put all this is "I'm still kind of annoyed by ||The Magnus Archives||" lol

[unreal cosmos]

That's a cool one

[floral herald]

Wait I'm confused by this - how do the ||Magnus Archives|| relate?

[thin ibex]

categorization of the fears id presume

lending itself to slotting and organizing things beneath those categories

[floral herald]

I also don't know much about the spoiled text thing tbf

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah and a lot of them tried to act like they were primal fundamental associations but were just kind of thrown together for the sake of aesthetics

But that's threatening to get too off-topic lol

It's just a podcast I have a love hate relationship with

[floral herald]

I think that's kinda just true for the chaos gods honestly

[unreal cosmos]

The core of Nurgle isn't stagnation or death and rebirth or whatever, it's "gross fat zombie monster"

[floral herald]

They aren't fundamental being of reality they're... psychic UXO from the war in Heaven and the Old Three Four just happen to be ones which are around and coalesced then and now they consume related concepts in the warp before they stellify in turn into gods

[naive abyss]

The irony being the best nurgle model is a skeletal corpse person in armor on a horse

[thin ibex]

its sort of like, the chaos gods werent first but they're also like an echo chamber a bit, in that their dominance retroactively lent themselves to being "fundamental"

[unreal cosmos]

Nurgle's problem is his hooks are the most external

[naive abyss]

Ehh

His allure is "stop the pain and the fear of death"

Like its pretty consistent that is the allure with nurgle

And he's not always causing the pain or death directly

[thin ibex]

is why one of the nurgle traits is that sort of easy going gregariousness; that freedom from fear of death and suffering is its allure

to give in and have none of it bother you anymore

[naive abyss]

Yeah

Like nurgle is gaslighting writ cosmic lol

[long void]

I found an interview with Bryan Ansell mentioning a lot of the names were written to make cool sounds

[thin ibex]

that tracks

[floral herald]

They're fun to say

Which in important for cosmic horror names

No one talks about Aiueb Gnshal or Cxaxukluth in the lovecraft mythos

(I just looked up a list and picked ones with hard to make sense of names)

[thin ibex]

first ive seen them at least lol

[long void]

I figured Nurgle was adapted from Nergal (and it is), but Tzeentch is "what sounds does a spell make?" 😆

[floral herald]

It's the kind of sizzlingly noise your GM makes when someone casts lightning bolt yeah

[desert jay]

Nergal + gurgle = Nurgle

[unreal cosmos]

Khorne seems a little too goofy I admit

Like i'm used to it but. Could have picked something that didn't sound like a staple grain.

I guess it speaks to the power of the writing that we accept it

[floral herald]

I've heard that Khorne is a corruption of Crom from Conan but idk if that's true

[unreal cosmos]

I wouldn't be surprised at least

[floral herald]

Yeah it sounds pretty plausible

[long void]

from Bryan Ansell:

Khorne was derived from Conan’s “Crom”, who is an “actual” Celtic god who can also be spelt Krom or Khram. Good name for a war god.

[thin ibex]

you can kind of expect a lot of like... surface level stuff and reasoning for many elements of 40k

especially early stuff

rather than like exceptionally deep, multilayered, nuanced stuff

more of that energy of like 3 dudes in a garage brainstorming stuff

"what sounds cool to us in this moment in time? What's relevant to our historical experience up till now"

over a pint and some cheetos

or crisps i should say

[jaunty dawn]

beer and pretzels

[dense sedge]

I’ve had this before: pitch they’re all trapped by trazym who serves as the announcer

[past sphinx]

Boy that would open a big ass can of worms

Conan exists within the lovecraft mythos

Though it does remind me of something grand of iirc Dust 1947 had mad jack churchhill wielding an atlantian steel blade

[ebon forge]

The bathrobe stays ON during cuddling

[thin ibex]

Lovecraft included conan the barbarian into his shorts and novels?

[ebon forge]

what

[thin ibex]

Just saw that Atlas mentioned that conan is in the lovecraft mythos but like

by whom

[mental birch]

Lovecraft and Howard just reference each others setting things occasionally

[unreal cosmos]

yeah they were buddies

they had very different outlooks about some things but ultimately existed in the same pulp sphere and were adamant white supremacists

[naive abyss]

im not sure if i called lovecraft a white supremacist. racist? yes. as for howard i dont honestly know lol

[past sphinx]

So E. Howard and Lovecraft both published pulps at the same time and where fans of each others works and refrence each other, things like the serpent men are both Valusian and lovecraft refrences Cimmeria in showdow out of time

and the OG conan storys are hella mythos

[thin ibex]

i c i c

[past sphinx]

Refrencing both gods from the mythos and in general tone

[solemn gull]

Yeah he was more of a eugenics guy

[past sphinx]

would highly reccomend them some of them are excellent reading

Lovecraft was a man terrified of everything and his sickness and isolation only aggravated that

[bright dove]

Lovecraft simply didn't believe in any sort of supremacy because he was afraid of humanity being meanignless in an increasingly known and growing universe.

In short, too occupied with his phobias.

[past sphinx]

if he had been somewhere else, perhaps anywhere else he wouldve had a wider view and tragically despite him seeming to start change his views from what we can read in his later letters he died soon after

Lovecraft and Howard where to very damaged men who never got to be better

[bright dove]

He never had a chance to not be mentally ill.

[solemn gull]

Its pretty tragic

[past sphinx]

i read through there collections every year and it plagues me that we will never get to see what those men couldve created if they had the chance to be free

[bright dove]

Yup.

The fact that Lovecraft was so terrified of everything really did define him.

While he was racist, it's more of an "Other People Terrify Me To My Core"

[pulsar holly]

Me thinks the next chance I get to obtain a hand crossbow in Warhammer Fantasy for my Halfling I’ll take it. double up on range with her whip, and a hand crossbow

[bright dove]

Yeeee

[solemn gull]

Neat

Probably the only thing a halfling could handle

[pulsar holly]

And then eventually

Gunpowder

[past sphinx]

consider

you could chuck grenades with a sling staff

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1agm64g/excerpt_genefather_turns_out_the_chaos_androids/

Oh wow

Guess who's back

[bright dove]

Y E S

[pulsar holly]

I want my gunpowder pistol, or blunderbuss

[past sphinx]

THE GREAT WHEEL TURNS, FOR ALL IS CANON AND NOTHING IS TRUE

[tired cairn]

Not literally banned, but restocks might be delayed in NA for awhile https://spikeybits.com/2024/02/gw-announces-a-ban-on-ordering-in-america.html

[past sphinx]

thank god

we are free

but also >spikeybitz

[pulsar holly]

What happened ._.

[past sphinx]

GW wants to move oldworld boxes out, big new product and all that and thus puts everyhting else on a bit of a back burner

[pulsar holly]

[past sphinx]

just logistics, spikey bits is just click bait

[pulsar holly]

This means war GW

You keep on restocking 40k, AoS, and Necromunda damn you GW D:<

[naive abyss]

i just want my copy of rogue trader lol

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGIAs5JX8NU&t=1s

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1202825791092822046/gAnxKgQ.png?ex=65ceddd0&is=65bc68d0&hm=6a10b79b1c20375a391231125e1ec02c0c26617d7a51178ccf70ce03a463ea83&

[ebon forge]

In character and probably canon /j

[ebon forge]

best lad

[pulsar cairn]

didnt know they had genders to begin with

but i know better than to question warp entities

[storm schooner]

Transition from agender to A Gender

[pulsar cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/neco-arc-backrooms-drip-gif-26565702

[jaunty dawn]

suitable backdrop

for the tech heresy

[unreal cosmos]

nice color combo!

[thin ibex]

playing with warhound lists

[past sphinx]

WARHOUNDS ARE 1100?!

[thin ibex]

yeah

[past sphinx]

By god

[spice flicker]

Does anyone have or remember that one GSC meme list with 0 GSC units in it?

It was one that took advantage of brood brothers to just build a mixed Imperium list but technically are a GSC army.

[desert jay]

Not hard to build from scratch

The funny part is that you can get to ~1800 points w/o using a warhound

[rocky shale]

Just max out how many brood brothers/agents/knights you can take by points

[past sphinx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jOR5z-SKQI

Quality work fro this lad

im always a fan of very experienced painters doing okay paint jobs

because i could spend 10 hours per marine but i aint got that kinda lifespan

[dense sedge]

got wyrdhollow, will hopefully be able to try a game with it sometime soon

[naive abyss]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1092950297602707496/1203087421739237407/6xBi1Gf.png?ex=65cfd179&is=65bd5c79&hm=7277422616f1703349297c6af3bad050848e2cd0d5efbe63d59a57bdbe11eb85&

[past sphinx]

high quality weird little guys in that box

[dense sedge]

I love the wyrd little guys in that box, I wish tzeentch deamons were more like them

[bright dove]

Tzeentch needs more weird guys, yeah.

[dense sedge]

I'd love if we got 'familiars' as a new basic unit while horrors and their splitting shenanigans were made more elite to compomise for how you need to buy so uch to use them

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

horrors should be more like nurgling equiv than plaguebearer

in terms of being more specialised

[bright dove]

God, I love nurglings.

Spongy little goofs.

[upper canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/nurgle-total-war-warhammer-great-unclean-one-daemons-nurgling-gif-24491424

HITCH A RIIIIIIIIIIIIDE

[unreal cosmos]

had a brief but terrifying experience of tipping over my Tamiya glue bottle

not much damage done but there was damage

[bold halo]

First little guy down, I'm officially back

This kit rules

[pastel rampart]

https://twitter.com/cnmbwjx/status/1753611036786389418

流星R（Commissions CLOSED） (@cnmbwjx) on X

Sukeban 40K，Imperium class #Warhammer #warhammer40k

Twitter · Feb 3, 2024, 2:47 AM

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OlUAin2N1E&t=154s

[junior robin]

oh man, I am so tempted right now to use the hermes light sentinels as chaos obliterators for my imperial fist renegades

[floral herald]

Oh that's a fun idea

[junior robin]

they basically did a hostile takeover of a hereteks base so with some extra gubbins they would look made for the part

[jaunty dawn]

that would be fun

[junior robin]

I made some kataphrons for that role before they got the plastic kit so they are completely the wrong size now

[floral herald]

Oh too big?

How big are the plastic oblits now anyway?

[junior robin]

too small, the new ones are about centurion size

still love that old metal sculpt though

[bright dove]

Both are good in their own ways.

The metal ones look truly like they are suffering from the virus.

That plastic one looks too clean imo

Not fused enough to their armor.

[jaunty dawn]

not a huge fan of the oblits tbh

[junior robin]

really wish I owned one of the orignials though

[jaunty dawn]

I think partially its a paint job issue

but its like they look too much like a blob of flesh with helbrute parts stuck on

[junior robin]

yeah, they used slightly to much hellbrute

[jaunty dawn]

like theres too much seperation

Ive seen centurion conversions I like. and some based on ambots

[floral herald]

I don't really see it but I don't love the helbrute "faceplate" look

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/40k-showcase-insane-obliterator-minis.html

[floral herald]

I've always been kind of annoyed by Oblits since they got rid of "armament, the CSM armory, and a plasma cannon"

[floral herald]

Though they're not really casino cannons this edition which is nice

[junior robin]

oh how things have gone downhill since csm 3.5

[floral herald]

They still worked like that in their next book

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Chaos40k/comments/ny2430/my_obliterator_conversion_ambothelbrute_really/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

more animalistic and technovirusy

in 4th edition

yeah the three weapons they have now aren't exactly the same but I think compared to the casino they had in 8th at least its not that far off practically speaking

love the illustration clearly showing an assault cannon haha

[floral herald]

It's better than 8th but still pretty random imo

And feels weird to me that they don't have 48" shooting at all anymore

You kind of have to deep strike them now I think

[jaunty dawn]

3.5 -> 4e they lost heavy bolter, frag missile, autocannon but gained plasma cannon, multi melta and twin linked on the flamer

[floral herald]

I think they're pretty solid and the indirect fire move is pretty neat but its weird how much their identity has changed

[jaunty dawn]

they do have random shots but dont have random damage so its rounds out to about average randomness

[uneven ember]

https://vxtwitter.com/Mick19988/status/1753790242602233863

[floral herald]

It feels bigger to me but you're probably right mathematically

[jaunty dawn]

still definitely a different feeling to choosing from like 6-7 weapons though yeah

[floral herald]

tbf I think it was lascannon, plasma cannon, and tl flamer about 90% of the time but yeah

Maybe some MM stuff but people seemed to mostly footslog them

[bright dove]

Generally you wanted the big hit, yeah.

You have the heavy weapon squads for other stuff.

[jaunty dawn]

by 7th they had gained assault cannon and heavy flamer but could no longer shoot the same weapon two turns in a row

(6th edition codex)

oh this sanctified plate is from 4e codex

I like it a lot

[bright dove]

Yeee, it looks rad.

And is nice and simple to paint.

[jaunty dawn]

word bearers who joined the world eaters and brought advanced daemonology with them

yeah you save a lot of time on trim

to have fun free handing the glyphs hah

[bright dove]

But there's no wrong way to do the glyphs, as a counterpoint.

[jaunty dawn]

I was only half joking!

defintiely a lot less tedious than trim

the black purity seals are nice and simple too

[junior robin]

my wallet wont be happy when they release a plastic Lorgar/Erebus/Kor Phaeron, thats for sure.

[jaunty dawn]

somehwat higher quality

[junior robin]

went to check up iron warrior "successors" and only ones with art are just "normal colours but without the hazard markings"

worst idea: IW successors but paint scheme is howling griffons but the colors are hazard stripes going in 4 different directions

[bright dove]

no

no no no no

[jaunty dawn]

ooh

[unreal cosmos]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/0/0a/Minotaurs_Original_Scheme.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210929182331 excellent news

[floral herald]

We need Maryland flag marines

These are pretty good though

[junior robin]

nothing new under the sun

[naive abyss]

you know i just realized something

the malcador sorta reminds me of that one french heavy tank that i forget the name of but its very similarly shaped i feel

the char b1

its not one ofr one but the hull mounted cannon just reminds me of it tbh

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[plucky token]

Imperial tank designs do take a lot of cues from old IRL tanks, yeah. Especially the interwar and early WW2 eras

[floral herald]

Yeah I can see the Char B1 there

[naive abyss]

tbh this makes me hope it gets rules for 40k

so i can just shove not char b1s into my french napoleonic regiment lol

[jaunty dawn]

it does

[naive abyss]

oh it just even now does? is it legacy?

[jaunty dawn]

legends cause horus heresy stuff or whatever but yeah

[naive abyss]

rip

but fair enough lol

also i hope we get new larger plastic of the weird malcadors

like these two from imperialis

[jaunty dawn]

imagine we will yeah

[naive abyss]

i love the flamer one

just beccause i adore it has just a lil promethium wagon on teh back

[jaunty dawn]

my fav is the weird heavy bolter emplacement one

[naive abyss]

ten out of ten scrungo tank

[naive abyss]

bunker on tracks lol

[bright dove]

The best kind of bunker tbh

Mobile trench line is appealing.

[jaunty dawn]

oh wait no its regular fw rules

which makes sense cause they came out before horus heresy even existed in 28mm

not that that stopped them removing half of chaos' units months before they even had heresy rules

[cinder wraith]

two of them

[naive abyss]

are those not all legends?

[jaunty dawn]

no

[naive abyss]

i sorta assumed most of fw was legends now

ay

vibe

[jaunty dawn]

only stuff that isnt made anymore

and arbritrarily some stuff for horus heresy

[naive abyss]

mm mm

i do wonder how it compares like rules wise to the dorn

[jaunty dawn]

slightly less tough but same amount of wounds

rogal shrugs an attack once per battle, base malcy reduces incoming ap so effectively has a 1+ save

[floral herald]

badly its weaker and more expensive

wait nvm its just the Malcador Defender (the funny bunker I think) which is bad

[jaunty dawn]

omg what

310 points?????

[floral herald]

yeah its wack

The regular Malcador looks ok though

[naive abyss]

fair enough lol

though i can imagine i can still use one as a proxy if so inclined

[floral herald]

The Malcador Infernus looks pretty nice

[naive abyss]

like if slapped down a malcador and said it was count as dorn in a casual match i doubt any would fuss over much about it

[floral herald]

Relatively cheap tough MEQ killer

[jaunty dawn]

i think I looked into that and the malcador is fairly smaller than a rogal

[naive abyss]

tbh i love the infernus for my napoleonic guard cuz them having giant flamethrower tanks to deal with nids makes so much sense lol

[jaunty dawn]

cause a malcador is basically a stretched russ

[naive abyss]

oh its smaller?

huh fair enough

[jaunty dawn]

but with mutual agreement why not yeah

[naive abyss]

i assumed it was about dorn sized

[jaunty dawn]

I think the macharius might beee

hard to find comparisons tbh

[naive abyss]

im just interested in the malcador cuz it reminds me of a french tank i like lol

[jaunty dawn]

but when the plastic versions come out there'll be plenty

[naive abyss]

yeah it looks about the size of a macharius

idk how accurate this side by side is though

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[naive abyss]

also i imagine we may eventually get a macharius in plastic though that one looks more german lol

[jaunty dawn]

the malcador is like the same width as a leman just longered

[naive abyss]

mm mm

[past sphinx]

Malcs are fucking big

Hang on

[floral herald]

Sort of low rez but shows it pretty well

[naive abyss]

i think the macharius is actually bigger than a dorn

so i think the malc is mroe or less dorn sized

based on how much bigger the mach is

but either way ultimately im a collector first so i can get the funny space french tank as i want lol

[jaunty dawn]

of course

[naive abyss]

sorry if that comes off dismissive

i just sorta ran a circle in my head is all lol

[past sphinx]

Tonk go brrr

Everyone should own a defender and an infernus

9 heavy bolters and a titan flamer

[jaunty dawn]

universal basic infernus

[naive abyss]

im very fond of giving my napoleonic guard some malcs now ngl

[still warren]

Blazing weapon gaming

[past sphinx]

Every man women and child has a right to a big honkin flame thrower

[unreal cosmos]

this is what Vulkan fought for

[jaunty dawn]

oooh actually I get where the malcador defender's points are from now

regular malcador doesnt have a hull cannon

and a heavy weapon team is 60 points

so its basically pointed as a malcador + a hwt cause it swaps the battle cannon for a demolisher cannon

[floral herald]

I guess that's fair

[jaunty dawn]

the malcador is already less shooty than a rogal dorn though

[floral herald]

yeah the Dorn has so many guns

[jaunty dawn]

fw stuff is pointed pretty conservatively

[floral herald]

Yeah I think they're pretty worried about a FW meta driver

[runic swallow]

I know that that was kinda the case at times when I played, certain forge world stuff just blew others out of the water with how it was pointed vs what you got

But that might be just me being exposed to the worst aspects of that having mostly played against guys who mostly did tournaments and went for the New Hot Things

[pulsar cairn]

6

[naive abyss]

?

[pulsar cairn]

fallout 6

[indigo wadi]

https://fxtwitter.com/ShitpostGate/status/1753640694713905310

[past sphinx]

There was a distant time when FW stuff was atleast strong

[naive abyss]

either way im sorta chuffed to eventually get the plastic malcs to put with my napoleone french guard

space char b1 is a vibe to me with that ngl

[brittle salmon]

There is some good FW stuff still around

Shadowswords delete vehicles with the most extreme prejudice

[floral herald]

I thought the Shadowsword was mainline GW now

[brittle salmon]

Hm, maybe

[naive abyss]

yeah thats mainline

[brittle salmon]

I thought Baneblades were the only mainline Bane chassis

[naive abyss]

its been in the guard range for a while now

nah the current baneblade kit can be built in one of several of its variants

bane, storm, shadow, and i forget the last one

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/astra-militarum-baneblade-2023

[jaunty dawn]

tetras are currently good I think

the fw design teams philosophy was always to err on the side of underpowered though

or try to anyway

lots of fw stuff was viable in 8th and 9th

dimachaeron kinda carried tyranids at some points

[floral herald]

A lot of it was viable but it was rare for it to be really strong iirc

[jaunty dawn]

ye

volkite spam contemptors were a thing

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A5ypyGx0lM

Deep under the earth the leagues of Votann have dug greedily into the crust of this planet. The cacophony of heavy duty equipment siphoning the planets mineral riches has awoken the terrifying presence of the Tyranids. For thousands of years this hive fleet splinter had slumbered, but now its ravenous hunger has been unleashed.The tunnels of this dig site now writhe with the skittering masses of the great devourer. The Leagues of Votann make a valiant last stand, priming explosives to seal these horrors away.Will the Leagues make a daring escape, or will they become bio mass for the hives consumption.

i like the lil fluff blurb for this battle report

big into the dorfs accidentally digging up a dormant group of nids lol

[mental birch]

Levithan dread with twin stormcannon was

Decent?

Also oooh forgot to ask

How are heavy bolters?

[jaunty dawn]

I personally quite like them

bit of ap, damage 2

on havocs they can be sustained and lethal on 5+s

idk if that necessarily translates to them being actually good but I enjoy using them haha

[floral herald]

They’re credible

[thin ibex]

Heavy bolters are decent general purpose plinkers imo

The have ap, deal 2 damage, are long range, and gave sustained hits.

Str 5 is take it or leave it, but it does mean they wound almost all infantry on a 3 or 4

So it's never bad to have em really, but they're rarely a main pick

[jaunty dawn]

depends what else can go into the slot is the thing

ive always really like the heavy bolters on sororitas armour though. much more efficient plinking than throwaway storm bolter pintles

[thin ibex]

Yeah definitely, they don't compete well against more specialized picks usually, say on devastators

But I think they're great all purpose shooters

I like em a lot tbh

I want to run 4 man hb devastator squads

[jaunty dawn]

another thing about havocs I like with hb is havocs dont have heavy on their weapons

[thin ibex]

Oh that is nice

I like 4 hb on anvil Detachment

[jaunty dawn]

that is quite fun and thematic

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpa2nvU6ZLU

[past sphinx]

Vibin with this boys

[naive abyss]

so i refined the name for my ironhead squats lol

Unified Networking Initiative for Ore Negotiators (U.N.I.O.N)

[past sphinx]

Ya takin up munda?

[naive abyss]

i mean not like so much playing as like i want to collect some of the ironheads lol

cuz i like the models lol

[past sphinx]

Fun fact, most of what the ironheads dig is previous civilizations of the planet

Probably mentioned that before

Necromundas pretty much stripped barren of everything

[runic swallow]

I’m gonna mine the dust

[past sphinx]

I could see like giant electromagnetic sails pulling iron from dust storms in the wastes

[runic swallow]

Honestly that’d be neat

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/Mick19988/status/1753790242602233863

https://fxtwitter.com/Mick19988/status/1753796753974067357

[cinder wraith]

hello

need help with list review for a tournament of AoS

i need some thoughts on this list

Freeguild Cavalier Marshal - command trait - Fiery Temper

Fusil Major on Ogor Warhulk - artefact - Mastros Vivetti's Magnificent Microscope

also i chose lethis just to disable ward with a prayer

[pulsar cairn]

paint your minis eyes like darkest dungeon eyes

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/K_Iragana_A/status/1753806297865351583

Your faves can now smooch if desired

[quaint compass]

Toxic Faves only

[untold swallow]

I just realized somethign that's even funnier about this image

both these characters are young girls lmao

so the meme is also they're femmarines

[floral herald]

Hmm this is reminding me of something I was thinking while listening to the death and the end audiobook

We’re Malcador and the Emperor lovers?

There’s just only so many times someone call call for their “king of ages” longingly while dying in their stead before I start wondering and it happens a LOT

Maybe it was how the lines were read by the audiobook narrator

[jaunty dawn]

the emperor doesnt even know what sex is

[bright dove]

Malcador is the person the Emperor trusted more than anyone else, his closest confidant, the one man he'd tell secrets that nobody else could know.

[jaunty dawn]

he thinks babies happen when a 100 shamans perform ritual suicide

[bright dove]

So either they're great friends, or they're lovers.

As an ace person, and knowing the emperor...

They're friends.

You can indeed get that attached without the addition of sex.

[upper canopy]

Malcador REALLY wanted to fuck the Emperor though

[bright dove]

Oh, probably.

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sensei Unfortunately we know he boned at least a few times.

[jaunty dawn]

clearly inquisition conspiracies

[storm schooner]

Sensei also got retconned out of existence

[pastel rampart]

I don't think they have, actually.

Very little in 40k is ever permanently retconned out of existence, and it's assumed that unless something published later directly does so, old lore still stands.

[jaunty dawn]

mm

but like

goes the other way too in that like