Warhammer and Such

[thin ibex]

but i could tell tehy lacked

oomph

not especially better at anything except movement speed compared to other custodes

and a bit spensive

[tired cairn]

The changes to devastating wounds had a lot of (probably unintended effects) on anything that was resistant to mortal wounds. Which hurt custodes the most

[tepid stratus]

They didn't go up in toughness like other bike units so they're the same toughness as a dude on foot. They also lost their role as tank busters because salvo launchers got the melts treatment without getting melta. The fly changes hurt their mobility but it's manageable. Basically they're super fragile and not punchy enough for their points. They're massively overshadow by their points cost in literally every other non vehicle unit in the index

[thin ibex]

mm that makes sense

then i hope they get some love

cause they're fun

they feel like fun "main guy" options to sit opposite the more imposing allarus

[tepid stratus]

Give them T7 and buff salvo launchers a little and they'll see more play. Either anti vehicle 4+ or just a straight strength buff. Custodes problems right now are needing melee to kill vehicles (unless you got the means to get the calladius from FW) and being so few wounds for our points that dev wounds is crippling. So having something fast and mobile that can shoot vehicles would provide a solution to those issues without needing to work around dev wounds as a solution to 2+ saves

[thin ibex]

incidentally i kinda wish that shining spears get a bit of a buff too

[tired cairn]

I'm surprised at how many lists are taking Hive Tyrants. I saw talk of them being overpriced

[thin ibex]

i could see anti vehicle 4+ being a thing on the jet bikers

[floral herald]

All I want is:

• melta gun buff
• only a small bonk for CSM

[thin ibex]

whats their strength rn?

[jaunty dawn]

melta is s9

[thin ibex]

ah no the lances on the bikers

lances and salvos or whatever

[tepid stratus]

Salvo launchers are str 9 ap-2 3 damage. One shot per 90pt bike

[thin ibex]

cause a thought i had was they could also get a rr to wound effect instead

which has an appreciably increase on successful attacks on a 5+ wound

[tepid stratus]

Lance's are str 7 with lance

[thin ibex]

mm thats a bit less impressive

[tepid stratus]

Ap -2 2 damage

[thin ibex]

truly anti elite infantry

but not str 8 even

[floral herald]

salvo launcher
one (1) shot
What did GW mean by this?

[tepid stratus]

Anti elite is something the army already has in spades it's what every other melee weapon outside of misericordia already does

[soft willow]

A single single shot.

But also Games Workshop doesn't know what they mean by the rules they write, so who knows.

[thin ibex]

let em go to str 9 with lance and sit at str 8, make give them a special rule of rr to wound on vehicles and monsters. Then you get str 9 shooting and melee against big monsters

with rr's

[tepid stratus]

RR against monsters and vehicles is already the special rule on allarus

[jaunty dawn]

one (1) is just a meme

[thin ibex]

oh is it? honestly i think itd be a bit sexier on the riders

over the allarus

[jaunty dawn]

the point is tha salvo launcher fires a single shot and not a salvo of shots

[tepid stratus]

Which is good, they're an auto include unit but they're also slow, expensive and eldar lock their lips looking at them

[tepid stratus]

The gimmick of allarus has always been to drop in and kill the warlord/big scary thing in lore so they reroll wounds against anything with the vehicle, monsters or has a character in it

[thin ibex]

ok yeah that makes sense

it just feels like a decisive thing the riders would want

does anything have a impact mw's on the charge

for stodes?

might be cool if they got one of the heftier ones likes 1/d3/3 mw on the charge on a 4+ in the charge phase rules

[tepid stratus]

Back in 9th they had the same rules as now. Str 7 with +1 to wound on the charge and salvos where str 8 ap-3 d6 damage. They could appreciably kill problem units back with the old toughness cap

[tepid stratus]

There's an enhancement that gives the character impact hits and forces battleshock on impact

In the transition to 10th bikes actively got nerfed while everything else got buffed up to match the change in math

[thin ibex]

are the buckler guys any fun rn?

like on a scale of "no good/for themes/playable/competetive"?

[tired cairn]

Battleshock in the charge/fight phase is pretty weak with current rules

[thin ibex]

battleshock in teh charge phase is significantly better

cause it shuts off using fight interrupt stratagem

or any other reactive strats during the fight phase

[tepid stratus]

A little overcosted, you want spears over bucklers on them but they're handy for secondaries and harrassment

[thin ibex]

hmm ok, so solidly playable, and edge a bit into comp, but generally not strongly competetive

id proab still run bucklers cause i feel like they're cooler, since i have no intent of going to a highly competetive scene

[tepid stratus]

Because bikes are shit the venatari are comp by virtue of us having nothing else for semi reliable behind enemy lines or engage

[thin ibex]

big pistols and bucklers are kind of fun and i dont think anyone else gets that combo, or bucklers in general tbh

[tepid stratus]

At least until GW gets off their asses and gives us the sisters bikers

[junior robin]

tries to enters the warhammer store to look up a kit
there is a queue
the queue is paused

[thin ibex]

sos bikers would be cool

or an sos like spotlight unit in general

that doesnt dig into custodes spotlight

[tepid stratus]

SoS got a bunch of new units in heresy but no models for them

[thin ibex]

oh neat

[floral herald]

HH is so cool for that

[tepid stratus]

They got elite melee infantry, scouts that bring war beasts, snipers, heavy weapon squads with null ammo, the kharon transport, bikes, bike hero, scout hero and captain version of the knight hero

[thin ibex]

ima make a theme stodes list using bikes and bucklers, mostly just for vibes, i think it'll just like.. be bad

[tepid stratus]

Now if only we had kits for them

[junior robin]

war beasts?!

[floral herald]

Not having to deal with 40Ks ultra-restrictive loadouts is gonna make me collect SoH or something I swear

[thin ibex]

sos sniper in 40k would be cool, i think stodes lack easy access to snipers beyond bringing a vindicare

[tepid stratus]

Dogs, cats and war gators because cyber animals don't react as strongly as humans to nulls

The snipers are so cool in concept too. Infintrate and nemesis bolters with null rounds

[thin ibex]

sos characters that could join a stodes squad would be kinda cool i think

[tepid stratus]

The heavy weapon squad can get psych-out missile launchers

[thin ibex]

ol anti psyker, null, joinee

[tepid stratus]

They can in heresy at the cost of reducing the units leadership. But uh as if custodes didn't need help against psychers, adding an oblivion knight let's them punk on Magnus and any corrupted/daemon unit

[thin ibex]

It's all so expensive! Which I guess makes sense

[unreal cosmos]

HH has it set up so if your armies are close enough buddies you can attach squads and characters to each other

[topaz elk]

THE KROOT ARE GETTING A RANGE UPDATE

[soft willow]

And their own detachment.

[spice flicker]

I've got a friend who wants my help trying to build a 2000 points list for sisters of battle but honestly I don't know much about them on the table. I did a little reading and was curious if you guys thought this could be a good list to suggest to my SoB friend?

https://pastebin.com/cPmPsCaS

[rocky shale]

I know SoB struggle with long range anti-tank but I'd throw in any you can get from tanks with lascannons

[spice flicker]

Couldn't find any lascannons for them.

[rocky shale]

Oh wait I just looked yah they have none

Ouch

I vaguely remember penitent engines being solid last time I played against them

[spice flicker]

I see I'll pass that along

[tired cairn]

SoB's historically used melta-guns almost exclusively for anti-tank, which isn't so good in 10th

[spice flicker]

I do find it funny when I was reading about them that the castigator battle cannon (you know the option you'd think would be better against vehicles) and the autocannons (what you think would work best against infantry) actually work best against their counterpart's preferred target. Battlecannon has blast+high shot count so good to potentially wiping squads of infantry while the autocannons have twin linked and rapid fire. Just a funny observation I saw.

[tired cairn]

I guess they use HE for the castigator

[floral herald]

battle cannons as a term have sort of "traditionally" been anti-infantry

[jaunty dawn]

plate throwers yeah

autocannons are like. light at

[soft willow]

Legions Imperialis in fact gives them Light AT as an ability.

[jaunty dawn]

it is weird though cause of how it's ability works

I think the battle cannon had 2 shot types originally? a high explosive incedniary and an anti armour?

[soft willow]

Not that I recall from early editions.

[jaunty dawn]

long long ago in the previous edition lol

[soft willow]

Might have happened after I stopped playing for a while.

[jaunty dawn]

castigator only showed up a minute ago

[soft willow]

Ah, I was thinking normal battle cannons, not specifically that one.

I remember when SoB were all metal models and still used a codex that was two EDITIONS out of date.

[jaunty dawn]

hey the rhino chassis was plastic

[soft willow]

All the SoB parts on it were metal.

[jaunty dawn]

yes but technically ;P

[soft willow]

You literally got half the space marine Rhino and metal parts.

Also how the Razorback used to be boxed up.

[thin ibex]

Iirc SoB like to push melta through via miracles right?

[unreal cosmos]

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but while I'm often annoyed by primaris units breaking up the tidy 10x10 company organization, the more I think about it the more I like six Outriders and two Invaders as a Close Support "squad"

have one ATV built into the unit and the second one separate for Overwatch duties

[thin ibex]

The biggest thing I dislike about the built in ATV is that it loses the return fire feature right?

[desert jay]

And also the $$$ per point

40k models hover somewhere around $0.40 per point overall, but AdMech has enough stuff above $1 per point to where it's not hard to put together a 2k that costs $2k

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zPr9Gm

[tired cairn]

Oh, yeah outside of gameplay there is that ridiculous problem. It got worse when they split out the Dragoon into two datasheets.

"You know that really expensive model that is good because of how tough it is for its points? What if you could take even more!"

[desert jay]

Yeah there was an ancedote about someone who ran a Kastellan heavy list in casual games and got ribbed for it (because Kastellans are hella meta), he pointed out that Kastellans are one of the decently affordable models and how much everything else costs and the ribbing stopped

[bright dove]

Horde point cost with not horde price points

[desert jay]

It's not even the battleline that hurts, it's all the point-cheap specialists

[floral herald]

The Ironstrider is I think the worst offender 60$ for 50 points

[desert jay]

(Okay the battleline aren't super cheap either but they're not the worst)

[tired cairn]

$60 for 45pts for the Dragoon with Radium Jezail 🙃

[floral herald]

oofa doofa

[unreal cosmos]

yeah, I guess it's a tradeoff for having the wound buffer

[thin ibex]

Hmm someone hit me witha faction and theme or two? Pc gpu or psu died abs I'm bored

[jaunty dawn]

really don't understand why they don't just make the ironstrider units better

things have like the footprint of an armiger almost

taser lances used to absolutely melt in 8e

[floral herald]

It's weird the sort of "hordification" of admech in 10e

[jaunty dawn]

it's a pretty old problem tbh

one that's kinda spread maybe

but ironstriders have had had a super bad points to cash ratio as long as I've known

onagers are like a weird spot of a relatively light tank

electro priests used to be 5-20 while coming in a 5 man box. and it was worth going to 20 if you wanted them to pop off

robots are alright, and sicarans I think

everything else came out since 8e

[thin ibex]

Ironstriders also used to be much stronger rules wise when they had the superior admech lascannon right?

[jaunty dawn]

balistarii were very aggressively priced with good lascannons yeah

it wasn't a lot better. it was mostly the fact you could take 9 for abt as much as they cost now

and then infiltrate them maybe

well actually it was 80 at the end of 8th vs 50 now but this was with 2 shot lascannons

admech messy

[rocky shale]

10e has quite a few factions getting "hordeified" because they got crap statlines but the only way GW will balance them is cutting points instead of giving them better datasheets. Poor admech/sisters players, they didn't deserve this.

Arguably even tau

[floral herald]

Tau have always been sort of a horde imo

Fire Warriors are more expensive than guardsmen but not that much more expensive

[jaunty dawn]

crisis suits fluctuate a lot

[naive abyss]

posting some screen caps from the eons of battle vid where he paints some oldhammer dorfs

i still really dig the look of his nmm

[thin ibex]

Crisis have come and gone as a "must take" unit for the tau tbh

Very much fluctuating

Good in 10th, but I personally dislike "CIB for everyone"

[jaunty dawn]

I dont really mind the fixed at 10 squads for tau n sob tbh

[thin ibex]

Same, honestly doesn't bother me

Guard too

Well

Not fixed

For them

[jaunty dawn]

growing to hate msu always being mechanically incentivised

or even more than msu minimum investment squads

[thin ibex]

I often kinda dislike the "being a minimum of "mainline" units to maximize as many sexy or special units. I know it's pretty much a baseline thing for optimization, but I do kinda dislike that the "main battle line " guys can so often be a minority in an army

They're by definition the basic unit of any army and meant to be the work horse

[jaunty dawn]

could be cool to have the option for 20 sister squads back

anyway found out xv25s and ghostkeels are contemporaries timeline wise so its not weird for a force to have limited 25 supply but access to 95s

ooh

i should use the old style xv22 as well. before shadowsunn got four arms

some kinda mixed conversion maybe

[past sphinx]

oh god that organ gun takes me right the fuck back

their perfect

[floral herald]

This has always been a weird tension in 40K

I do think 10e has been decent about it though

[thin ibex]

Yeah I have noticed that when you build a fairly balanced list that looks out for good OC, you end up with a decent amount of battle line

[bold halo]

I've always loved the specialist units and kind of begrudgingly taken grunts so 10e is perfect for me ngl

[floral herald]

Admittedly I’m on the bright side of this with CSM - who took worlds with a list which included 30 legionaries and 30 accursed cultists

[thin ibex]

Something just doesn't sit right with me when you have an TAC list that's just like... slamming units that are narratively rare and special and powerful

Like "yeah there are only 6 in existence and they are all here today"

Or some shit like that

[naive abyss]

theyre a vibe ye

[brittle salmon]

I'm still confused how this list killed tanks, haha

[floral herald]

Yeah I’m not sure either

Maybe it’s just army wide lethal hits access

[desert jay]

Just OC the tanks off of objectives 5head

[soft willow]

Yeah a combination of high OC and lethal hits does it.

Rolling enough dice will always get you there in 40k as long as you can help bypass some of the rolls.

[thin ibex]

DID it kill tanks?

[soft willow]

Donno' someone might be able to find out in time for the Balance Dataslate to invalidate the list though.

[rocky shale]

They usually sneak in a forgefiend in those lists

[thin ibex]

i know that there are some lists that just have more targets than the tanks can kill fast enough and get outscored

[rocky shale]

My guess would be they had room for forgefiends/oblits or they just slapped a lascannon and missile launcher in every squad of 10 legionairies

Here was the LVO winning CSM list. Accursed cultists/dark commune + chosen rather than legionaries

[naive abyss]

did a quick ironhead impcat inspired by cosmonautas and coal miner uniforms

[past sphinx]

you could do that with like stone grey Ochre brown and black Grey

EZ

30 minute mini and slap some streaking grime on it

[valid brook]

Love the look of those late Soviet space suits, beige with orange or blue accents

[naive abyss]

ye im fond of the orange with the white/cream

its just reads as like space blue laborer in the best way to me

i also like the idea of the group just referring to themselves as the "U.N.I.O.N"

stands for some nosense

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/ChumiiCham/status/1750340381374382325

[naive abyss]

Unified Negotiation Initiative of Ore Nabbers

sorted

[thin ibex]

its rather easy to field a LOT of firepower as the admech i noticed

i do kinda like the vibes of having quite so many riders

admech cav is a fun theme

[past sphinx]

My RT players paying millions of thrones to engrave all their bullets with prayers to the emperor

[naive abyss]

lol

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1199900036943859762/Screenshot_20240124-211035.webp?ex=65c438fd&is=65b1c3fd&hm=677c92e7884e9d9eced024711eef559d9c64ae7a244f86099a5c89afef3149a3&

[desert jay]

Leaving out the literal party to end all parties

[thin ibex]

Did a fun lightning themed list

Really thought there would be room for more units but I guess not

4+ fnp fulgurites with a -1 to wound is a bit fancy

[uneven ember]

knows what's up

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/thebuzzman63/status/1750237656087245119

[unreal cosmos]

god the inappropriate comma really does a ton of work on the comedic timing

[thin ibex]

Might try to make a bit of a jokey full melee guardsmen list

[upper canopy]

https://youtu.be/kIhiVu1u_vM?si=HMs5qYQLasiNFbKX

[jaunty dawn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/shattered-legions-and-blackshields-star-in-the-next-expansion-for-warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

it's tiiiiiiime

well no it's not but one day

not a huge amount of shattered legion details but blackshields have this oath thing

they used to have just one option I think?

yeah one wrought by war option

so a bit more mix and matchy which is kinda cool

[floral herald]

https://vxtwitter.com/mengelminis/status/1750532457282363542?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

[pine matrix]

Fuck yeah, I really love the blackshields as a concept. What's an empire collapsing into civil war without renegade units and opportunists?

One of the things that I find most compelling about the Heresy is the machinery of the imperium just shattering apart as the war wages on, with the legions as the representatives of that

[jaunty dawn]

shows that all the supposed glory of the great crusade was just a veneer on the flimsiest of foundations

[thin ibex]

so is hte HH table game much more... interested in the minutia?

so to speak

[jaunty dawn]

reasonably so

[soft willow]

It’s kinda old 40k design taken further.

Individual loadouts and templates and all that.

[jaunty dawn]

pretty similar to 7th edition with apocalypse imperial armour stuff

but more faction options like rites of war n such

[thin ibex]

honestly i could go even harder on raw guardsmen bodies

but this actually feels a bit functional

the main idea is a horde o catachans with sustained hits 1 and fixed bayonets layered onto their increased str and ap on the charge

laying out a massive number of attacks

[pine matrix]

Yes!! The corrupt was most obvious in Angron and Curze but the whole thing was rotten to the core. Of course when things go fully off the rails some of the super soldiers you made would go "well fuck this, I'm just gonna do what I want"

[unreal cosmos]

Mechanics or lore wise?

Because the answer is yes to both, lol

[thin ibex]

got my answer i think, but yeah was about mechanics

[unreal cosmos]

Though the latter is still pretty flexible in some interesting ways

[thin ibex]

i almost wish that 40k brought up tank general lethality while also bringing back arcs and los limitations for armor

but i guess the main issue with assigning fire arcs is designing your vehicles with them in mind, which might be a limitation on some newer vehicles

[unreal cosmos]

You don't have dozens of custom chapters running around but also the founding legions were so numerous and not quite as centralized as you'd think

[pine matrix]

Yeah, legions had plenty of space for weirdness, especially during the heresy

[pulsar holly]

@naive abyss Looks like C7 just released an orc supplement for GMs, for Warhammer Fantasy

[naive abyss]

Neat

https://vxtwitter.com/cubicle7/status/1750522714270642383?t=jrXlB91tIchSc57fGAxUHw&s=19

[pulsar holly]

She looks friendly

[naive abyss]

I do find it funny the nipples are tactically hidden lol

[pulsar holly]

Tactical nips

[ebon forge]

Just like the ones from the Orcs cheerleaders

[pulsar holly]

Art be like, then the mini be like

[solemn gull]

Ooh new WFR book

[pine matrix]

Troll sexual dismorphism....are trolls mammals

[solemn gull]

What else did you think they were?

[junior robin]

tried to find the answer and seems no one knows

[pine matrix]

Reptiles, or maybe just weird magical creatures that pop out of bogs and rocks

[junior robin]

lexikanum basically goes "people believe they are corrupted ogres maybe perhaps 🤷 "

[solemn gull]

I think they are compound

Amphibian/mammals

Like how orks are fungi/(mammal?)

[junior robin]

I belive they are what happens if you dont feed a halfling after midnight.

[upper canopy]

Yeah no one knows exactly what trolls are

just an assumption that they're chaos-corrupted that turned into a semi-stable breed

[pine matrix]

Just like the skaven, I suppose!

[quaint compass]

and humans

[jaunty dawn]

steam tank list at lvo

with magic tank too

kinda neat

[still warren]

first place didn't have any fussilers and was cav heavy, definitely an interesting list. And also looks like battlescroll update got delayed because of a point increase coming to command corps

[dense sedge]

The Freeguilds command corp looks really strong judging by its presence

[still warren]

the healing probably is going to be brought down officially+can't effect infantry and then only can deny a command once a turn

[dense sedge]

I don’t know enough to say why it’s good but two different lists with two of them in top 5 indicates that they’re very good

[junior summit]

it also puts limits on modelling because model geometry becomes relevant

back when armor facings were a thing ork battlewagons were long and thin which made their frontal AV14 a lot worse than the equivalent on a different vehicle

[slate hazel]

Hey hoping this is the right place to ask, but I'm looking to run Dark Heresy 2e with a group online and was wondering how VTT support looks. I saw that Foundary might only have an unofficial system

[jaunty dawn]

most foundry systems are unofficial tbf

[naive abyss]

yeah i doubt theres any official vtt support

[plucky token]

the sheet on Foundry looks perfectly playable. probably doesn't have much automation, and you'll have to fill out most content like stats and such yourself, tho

[slate hazel]

Cool yea looks like thats what I'll use, thanks!

[floral herald]

Dark Heresy is also a pretty orphaned system - all support now is unofficial but pretty robust

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/19f6491/finally_finished_my_second_hekaton/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[dense sedge]

You know what would be an awesome kill team? The Rogue Trader companions

[jaunty dawn]

like models of the video game characters?

[tired cairn]

The three officer team would be too strong 😛

[dense sedge]

I am very close to buying wyrdhollow, since I adore Ephilim's unknowables

[pulsar cairn]

back in the day Dark eldar liked to rad Vulkan's home world

probably because folks there are tough

alsoooooo

what's the lady eldar called in rogue trader?

[ebon forge]

Yrliet Lanaevyss

[pulsar cairn]

thanks thanks

[tepid stratus]

After seeing them in action the meta way to run them is to use them as your screens. 18 self regenerative wounds for relatively cheap that deny commands is every gunlines wet dream.

Add on +1 to save and mortals on a 6 to hit from the alchemite and you've got a genuine problem

[thin ibex]

Full stealth raiding force for tau

Would almost be tempted to bring 3 fusion colliders on the ghostkeels since I didn't bring any heftier anti tank

[jaunty dawn]

ooh

sneaky

[pallid pond]

Yo warhammer

aka lancer 2

[junior robin]

really wish they would make xenos "knight" army rules

like wraithlords and armigers are sorta close in stats

[unreal cosmos]

Farsight's buddies The Eight would be very Lancer

[untold swallow]

odd question, is holy water a thing in whf?

okay cool it is

[thin ibex]

i wonder how they'd approach the Eight in 10th

making them a combat patrol would be cool, but they're a bit too high tier

tau would love having that many new heroes added, but them all being farsight locked would suck

[untold swallow]

I wish the Enclaves weren't as mech-focused as they are with their heroes, but like

They're T'au

and their leader is kind of The Battlesuit Man so I get it lol

I do wish they had, as weird as this may sound

The equivalent of a volunteers unit and leaders?

Since they're the tiny, only faction of mostly good characters?

And I think a unit of volunteers would sell that vibe

Fighting for their little corner of the galaxy

[floral herald]

I always thought it was weird that the Tau have never had a “lead from the back with strategies” type of HQ like Creed or something

[tired cairn]

Why do that when you can lead from the front with a hologram

[floral herald]

I’m not sure what volunteers means in this case

[untold swallow]

Like a militia

which

[floral herald]

Oh yeah, Eldar have that at least, but the Tau are weird and have a hereditary military caste

[untold swallow]

may be the enclaves military in general in which case ignore me lol

I mean ye

But Farsight represents an at least partial break from that tradition

I wanna see some Earth Caste going 'no fuck you this is my home too, I'm picking up a gun'

[tired cairn]

I thought farsight was mostly ok with how tau do things?

[untold swallow]

I mean from what I understand his whole thing is 'the Ethereals are a bunch of fucking liars'

Which as a natural consequence would call the caste system the Ethereals created into question

[jaunty dawn]

farsight enclaves really only have one big character

they just decided to name all his bodyguards and diversify their chassis one day

[tired cairn]

Reading his backstory, it's pretty funny that Tau put prospective members into a Kobayashi Maru esque simulation where promotion requires you to "die"

[floral herald]

Self sacrifice is the ultimate expression of the greater good

[thin ibex]

Farsight strongly supports the concept and ambition of the greater good, and even thinks the caste system is good. He does, however, think that the castes have much to learn from one another and that the Ethereals are liars

As the division between castes is strict and crossover of skills or duties is taboo in the empire, which he disagrees with

[unreal cosmos]

I'd be down for the Eight as like, just a specific loadout you can do with generic units, the one wrinkle is that a handful have unique gear

Not that it would be a betrayal of the concept to not give each one their Not-Relic

[thin ibex]

i think Farsight also constantly battles with the fear of breaking down too much of the barriers between th castes and the removal of ethereals

[jaunty dawn]

cadre fireblades do have a rifle

[topaz elk]

Yah, Farsight is like actively avoided all out war with the empire because he fears that war with it will just lead to its destruction

[thin ibex]

due to the Mont'au

[jaunty dawn]

but they are relatively lead from the back

cause they always used to spend their own shooting on markerlights usually

but yeah the fact there's no like

strategic commander type in longstrike type armour

[thin ibex]

there's a generational lesson taught amongst the castes that peace between the castes isnt possible without hte ethereals, pushed by the ethereals, and the enclaves are not yet total proof against that, but they're a very real and powerful start

farsight still has concerns about it iirc

[jaunty dawn]

in general darkstriders case kinda shows that like

the tau military is very vertically organised

in terms of progression involves changing specialties

[thin ibex]

iirc darkstrider would be a higher more distinguished rank if he wasn't such a loose cannon

[jaunty dawn]

like fireblades literally give up any form of career progression

darkstriders repeatedly refused promotions because it's the only way to stay a pathfinder

[thin ibex]

iirc fireblades also get a lot of informal respect, which gives them a fair amount of social clout

[jaunty dawn]

informal respect in some places, formal snubbing in others

[thin ibex]

i need to read the darkstrider shorts/books

[naive abyss]

It should be noted one of the eight is earth caste

[thin ibex]

o vesa the stone dragon

[naive abyss]

@untold swallow accidentally turned of the ping out of habit lol

[untold swallow]

lol

[thin ibex]

kept alive/young by nanomachines of his own design iirc

another one is a full engrammatic AI

oblatai would be a kill on sight entity for the admech

[junior robin]

hmm, tau gun servitors for a radical ordo xenos inquisitor would look rad

[naive abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/lotr-smirk-gimli-lord-of-the-rings-smile-gif-16266443

[thin ibex]

i do like how darkstrider was able to track and approach a vindicare un-detected

[naive abyss]

Live kin reaction

[thin ibex]

i think the running combat that ensued after the vindicares first shot ended up killing most of his pathfinder squad, but also resulted in him killing the vindicare (i don't fully remember)

ah no, he and his team ambushed the vindicare while it tried to make its escape

but he did lose 6 pathfinders and get wounded himself to put the assassin down

the same assassin that apparently dropped a whole squad of firewarriors, a crisis suit, a riptide, and a pirahana before trying to make their escape

[junior robin]

I can only imagine him doing it on one shot, creating a horrifying rube goldberg machine of death.

[dense sedge]

Assasins are very scary

[thin ibex]

homeboy was trying to kill farsight, and might even have succeeded

[desert jay]

No no it's fine, as an engram it's basically like an advanced servitor, right? (As fine as any xenos tech is)

[thin ibex]

no meat processor!

true AI! Men of Iron, panic panic!

btw i forget, how do servo skulls float?

anti grav right?

cherubs too?

[bright dove]

I still can't blame a Men of Iron panic

And ye, very minor antigrac

[naive abyss]

I can

Don't treat your robots like shit

[bright dove]

Yes

But also that very directly led to the collapse of the former human space empire

[past sphinx]

also maybe dont have killbots

bots only for killin are a bad idea

[bright dove]

In an incredibly bad way

Shit got so bad that we got the fucking Emperor

[naive abyss]

I can still blame them for shooting themselves in the foot imo

https://tenor.com/view/bardin-vermintide-dwarf-warhammer-gif-23354885

[bright dove]

Who went from just chilling to "Oh, I need to take drastic measures"

[thin ibex]

man imperium not making grav bikes for years and years, servo skulls, cherubs, land speeders all right there

cawl, making everything else grav

but deciding nah for bikes

[bright dove]

Lost the midpoint engines

[past sphinx]

oh no weve had grav bikes for years!

just not milspec ones

horses you can rely on

[thin ibex]

an underhive with grav bikes while space marines have such low clearanec on their ATV's and bikes that the machine gets fucked by a pothole

bottom out on any bump

[past sphinx]

my hatred of modern marine vehicles has no limit

though the outrider bike is okay

[naive abyss]

Atlas finding the lowest res image of the cutters he could lol

[past sphinx]

needs a sidecar melta

[thin ibex]

i think the outrider bike LOOKS cool

but its so low clearance to make it like

not make any sense

same with the ATV

not make any sense for its intended role i should say

especially when their NON outrider/flanker/scout vehicles fly over terrain issues

[past sphinx]

also jesus christ the dread is to big

granted im used to being able to fit a dread in like a sandwitch box but jesus its the size of an armiger and twice as wide

[thin ibex]

give dreads grav roller blades

[past sphinx]

put em on the firestrike systems

quad legs with lil grav bits on the bottom

[thin ibex]

"Brother I am Fast Now"

alternatively, make a dread sized jump pack and staple it on their back

[past sphinx]

hey now we had that once

for horus heresy i believe?

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah, just for Blood Angels

It was single-use so you could use it to deep strike OR do a big jump, then it detached

[past sphinx]

actual perfection

almost as good as the dread drop pod

i think i really wanted but never actually bought

[unreal cosmos]

I really adore the "90% of the vehicle is jet turbine" look

[thin ibex]

Orkz should get the unit from red alert 3, a transport that can launch orks out of a canon to their destination. Is it an air assault? Are they munitions? Who knows, it gets them into the scrum faster

[slate hazel]

Well thanks again to those who commented on the VTT stuff earlier, it seems like everyone became incredibly disinterested and doesn't want to do it anymore 💀

[quaint compass]

💀

Evil times call for evil measures

[thin ibex]

i wonder how fun it would be to play a raw shot count admech list

as many heavy sybbers and flechette blasters as i can get

[bright dove]

Fun until money enters the equation

[thin ibex]

virtual only lists to laugh without losing your home

[thin ibex]

i want a ballistus dread or redemptor dread with 2 onslaught gatling cannons, the chest heavy bolters, and the twin stubber from the brutalis

[unreal cosmos]

would bringing three vehicles to a 1k game be a dick move?

[floral herald]

probably not but I suppose it depends on the vehicles and intent

[thin ibex]

in general no

landspeeders are vehilcles

[desert jay]

Transports or light vehicles no, three tanks maybe, three rogal dorns almost definitely

[floral herald]

Horus Heresy ends tomorrow

At least the last book comes out

[thin ibex]

title changes to horus heresy'd

[floral herald]

I wonder if there's gonna be any significant twist or anything

There's been some interesting stuff in part 2

Mostly ||validating the Starchild stuff from way back when||

Which is wild because that stuff hasn't been meaningfully touched since... 3rd edition or so

[naive abyss]

Can't wait for them to make five hundred books about the scouring next lol

[thin ibex]

wasnt there starchild stuff as recently as the time guilliman fought mortarion?

I forget

[floral herald]

If we get a novel which explains the Year of Ghosts in a cool way I'm down

[floral herald]

If there is it's not on the wikis - I haven't read all the recent stuff but I just know of a weird vision a black templar had

Which wasn't that substantive

[upper canopy]

TTS SWEEP

LET'S GO BABY

[floral herald]

There's a whole thing in part 2 about ||how when the emperor relinquishes his godhood he also breaks off the part of his soul that contains his humanity - honor, grace, compassion, hope etc, and sends it off as a "star" in the warp to hopefully be reclaimed later because he needs to be free of those things to do the things he's gotta do without hesitation|| and ||Malcador sees this happen and talks about how it'll grow in the warp||

[upper canopy]

OH MY GOD LMAO

[floral herald]

Oh? (hasn't seen any TTS voice)

[naive abyss]

Gw just stealing tts lore lol

[naive abyss]

I feel that's not a thing you can expound on in a way that wouldn't lessen it but Idk

[upper canopy]

That's literally what we ended the show on

[floral herald]

oh my god lmao

Either that's an incredible call/coincidence or Dan Abnett saw TTS and it was good

I've been pretty excited with part 2

Just got through the death of sanguinius and it managed to be pretty intense despite being the second most foreshadowed death in the franchise

[final tide]

My roomies Christmas gift arrived!

So I have this now

[floral herald]

ooh

[brittle salmon]

lets go

[final tide]

he’s so fucking big and pretty

[unreal cosmos]

Two Repulsors and a Ballistus

[floral herald]

I don't think that's a problem

[unreal cosmos]

Cool. For fun I've been workshopping an All Gravis list but to make it functional I need some armor lol

[pulsar cairn]

is that Papa lion? @final tide

[final tide]

Yah~

[pulsar cairn]

looks awesome

[pulsar cairn]

why do people call Guilliman Bobby G?

I don't get the bobby part

[bright dove]

Robute Guilliman

Someone in another chat shared this beauty from the long distant past for Genestealer cults.

[jaunty dawn]

clown car limo

[pastel rampart]

Cheap for 15pts.

https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/8/18/260124-Armored Limousine, Cars, Genestealer Cult, Limo, Limousine, Rogue Trader.jpg

[floral herald]

the GSC cars rule

[jaunty dawn]

checking out old codexes per use and was reminded pathfinders used to be dedicated mechanised infantry

[pastel rampart]

Also this was 3rd ed so being open-topped means it could move 12" and units could assault out of it.

[jaunty dawn]

dunno if there's been any other unit like that

[unreal cosmos]

really wanna see this come back

[pastel rampart]

So actually, kinda scary even if bolters could shoot it down easily.

[floral herald]

yeah that's a credible delivery device for genestealers

[unreal cosmos]

it being a delivery mechanism for purestrain and other nasty melee stuff could be great

good niche they don't have exploited yet

[jaunty dawn]

a cult release that brings new directions for the cult would be neat

[unreal cosmos]

the proletariat insurget element is good but I'd love to see some posh GSC

[jaunty dawn]

after like three releases of mining focused labor militias

[pastel rampart]

https://wargameexclusive.com/shop/?yith_wcan=1&product_cat=cars Do I have news for you!

[bright dove]

Yeah, for 15 points, it does the job well.

[jaunty dawn]

not sure how suprised I actually am the cars don't have boobs xP

[pastel rampart]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/ceozio/genestealer_cult/ Paints up nice

[unreal cosmos]

I was about to say, lol

also wow, surprised how far they've gone with lov proxies

[thin ibex]

My vote is land raider to get your aggressors in, twin linked on the fists makes them relatively dangerous against armor in melee

Or eradicators in a Repulsor

[unreal cosmos]

noted

[topaz elk]

yooooooooooooooooo

[unreal cosmos]

I was mostly thinking of the Repulsors ferrying H Intercessors around

[unreal cosmos]

now have your roomie draw him like they drew Sanguinius

[thin ibex]

That also works, for some reason I was thinking of anti armor when you said armor

[unreal cosmos]

unless I'm thinking of someone else lol

[final tide]

Nah ur correct

[unreal cosmos]

oh yeah, I just meant armor to move them around and fill out points lol

[final tide]

But I think lion is a bear not a Bakibod

[unreal cosmos]

admittedly when I said "like Sanguinius" I mostly meant "slutty"

[final tide]

this is just

[dense sedge]

Do the various cities of sigmar have the ability to bring along other factions like daughters or sylvanerh or are stormcastvtge only oof support they can bring?

Because a cities army backed up by daughters and dark elves seem super cool to me

[final tide]

I think they can do them as allies

The way Orruks can take like 500 points of Gloomspite

[upper canopy]

One of the cities is specifically this

[bright dove]

Fyreslayers can easily bring in other dwarves, iirc.

[jaunty dawn]

they used to have special ally rules for stormcast and then specific cities had extra stuff. now they basicsally just do regular allies with pretty much all of order

notably, some of the cities have specific synergies with allied units of a particular faction

like living city gets outflank that allied sylvaneth units also qualify for

[still warren]

Cities are dark elves, humans, and basic dwarfs. You can bring dark elves as a battleline unit if you want though you kinda miss out on benefits if you mix and match

[dense sedge]

Misthaven yes?

[jaunty dawn]

mostly you just need to match up heroes and units

[dense sedge]

Are they just the dark elf misfit toys or ca they also bring sone daughters units?

[bright dove]

And with high point costs, that's easy to do.

*Point limits

You could ally in Daughters easily.

And you get the fun toys of hydras.

[jaunty dawn]

all cities can ally daughters

misthavn is the main dark elf city

dont really have any specific daughters synergy

[bright dove]

One of the big things I like about Cities is that you can bring in any of the other Order factions pretty damn easily from both lore and mechanical standpoints.

[dense sedge]

What are ally rules? I’m guessing it’s not allowed in match play?

[jaunty dawn]

there used to be formerly anvilgard now har kuron which is the big dark elves/daughters city but it doesn't have rules atm

allies are allowed

[bright dove]

It is, you're just limited on how much you can bring in from allies.

[topaz elk]

The Lion doesn’t have the slut vibes Sanguinius has

[tepid stratus]

You're allowed 400pts of an allied army. It's legal for matched play

[jaunty dawn]

points limit of 20% of your force and only 1 in 4 of your total units

[topaz elk]

I just can’t imagine Sanguinius throwing it back

[bright dove]

Allies also can't be your general.

[jaunty dawn]

they dont get any of their allegiance abilities is the big downside

[tepid stratus]

Unless they're a coalition but that's basically chaos exclusive right now

[jaunty dawn]

even coalition kinda but they get new allegiance abilities yeah

[tepid stratus]

Well no allegiances but they can be given artefacts as coalition and 1/2 units instead of 1/4

[jaunty dawn]

cities dont do coalition anymore but some of them do buff allies, alas not one for daughters anymore

[bright dove]

I will say that putting in Stormcasts or Seraphon will never go wrong for Cities.

Have some stuff with some oomph on your side. 😛

[tepid stratus]

Because daughters burned bridges and commited a wee bit of genocide

[jaunty dawn]

more making the point that coalition lets allies take stuff from the main army, they still lose any stuff from their native ^^

[dense sedge]

Shame that anvilguard isn’t a thing anymore then

[jaunty dawn]

cities actually can't ally seraphon weirdly. only thing they cant

i guess cause the rest of the factions kinda live everywhere or something but seraphon are off doing their own thing? idk

the only other restriction is sylvaneth dont get on with the gun shooting tree burning greywater fastness aha

[tepid stratus]

Seraphon don't ally with most factions because of a lack of communication and literally thinking like an alien

Seraphon literally saved a town only to leave them for dead in beastmen territory because their slan read his stone tablet wrong

[dense sedge]

Cities have special rules for stormcast allying right?

[jaunty dawn]

not anymore

well. not in cities

stormcast still have special rules for cities allies

lethis specifically gives its unique prayer to stormcast priest allies

and hammerhal aqsha can take their boss, Aventis Firestrike and he basically gets to be a second general and gives you extra cp

[naive abyss]

https://cubicle7games.com/blog/Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay: Tribes and Tribulations

[bright dove]

Is that an Orc book I see?

[upper canopy]

It's not playable orcs or anything

it's just a monster manual

[thin ibex]

no particular theme just trying my hand at a proper orky list

I think it works?

got enough fast and slow and tough

teleporting mob

is fun

i also like trukk fulla flamers

as an idea anyway

[thin ibex]

feel like ive also got a good number priority threats

easy to sink shots into the gorkanaut, but then you ignore the boyz mob, the meganobs, or the kans

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1200658691280609501/414361038_882186439943831_1974625558691765506_n.jpg?ex=65c6fb8b&is=65b4868b&hm=c5880e7d68a22020a80ff20d91be274a2c11811b7a8c5af1a963669a0307e941&

[sour sequoia]

LVO feelin so good

[past sphinx]

Very important it is now Canon that the emperor does in fact play a children's card game

okay maybe it's an extrapolation of big Es tarot but I'll take what I can get in these fuckin books

[pulsar cairn]

he likes Tarot?

BTW

do Tempestus scionss do Commando stuff as well or is that reserved for some other kind of soldier?

[desert jay]

Tarot was indeed playing cards before it got all mixed up in occultism but AIUI it’s games like spades or cribbage or bridge, not what I’d call children’s card games even if children did play them

[junior robin]

they are trained in special ops so yes

[pastel rampart]

They do commando stuff, and are often recommended for it because they're the best of the best in terms of baseline humans.

[pulsar cairn]

cool i like them a lot

Karskins are not scions right? Cadians just started training their own Special guys?

[junior robin]

yeah, and acording to lexikanum do they train them even harder then scions

also found this picture of 2nd ed storm troopers, quite interesting to see them have heavy weapons and no armour

but still armed with hot-shot las

went on a look through old models and really wish I could get some of the old metal Catachan specialists

[jaunty dawn]

I think before they got their next look they were just like

elite guardsmen

but still with basically the same organisation as regular guard

[pulsar cairn]

that's impressive

[jaunty dawn]

from 3rd edition, 1999

[pastel rampart]

They were an elite choice and had similar equipment and stats in both IG and daemonhunters/witchhunters.

Troop choice in the latter two books.

[pulsar cairn]

i like their look

[unreal cosmos]

I dig that

[upper canopy]

We're being plagiarized

Gamers Workjoppe will pay...............

[past sphinx]

I badly need to paint my old Stormtroopers

Their just sitting on my desk primed and know where to go

[sweet solar]

its a 🤓 but back in second it wasnt hotshot either, those were hellguns. hotshot was a term invented later by i THINK dan abnett in gaunts ghosts, as a way to dump most of a battery through a standard lasgun as a way to empower the shots at the expense of having to regularly replacing the barrel (like some, especially older, sniper weapons i think?) but got backformed into being a replacement term for hellguns

i am still mad about this as hellgun is a cooler word and hot shot las would be a GREAT term for something else. like an optional veteran upgrade that gave the the option to fire s5 lasguns, but then they had to spend a shooting phase not firing to change the barrle

[junior robin]

wow, had completely forgotten about hellguns

[jaunty dawn]

technically they both still exist as seperate things

in that there is a difference between having a backpack ammo system with a cooled barrel and just having a modified charge pack that fucks up your gun like you can get in necromunda

but they did make them both called the same thing for some reason yeah

[floral herald]

Oh jeez I didn’t know gaunts ghosts dated back to 1999

[sweet solar]

yeah! gaunts ghost long running

we had book 1 of gaunts ghosts in our school library in like, 2002

[floral herald]

I first ran into hot shot packs in Ravenor which was 2004

[jaunty dawn]

the sharpe movies were on tv over the holidays and they are pretty neat

(the books of which inspired gaunt's ghosts)

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Genk2N

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/n055Yo

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/kQPxRK

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aoqqx9

[bright dove]

Don't barter in blood with Skaven for god's sake.

They'll thin they're getting a good deal!

[thin ibex]

In the lore for old world, dragon ogres are quite rare and deadly right?

[quaint compass]

yes

[upper canopy]

Yes

They do be immortal

[thin ibex]

Can they be fielded on AOS?

[quaint compass]

Believe so

Though they're called dragon Ogors

Because copyright is important, allegedly

[bright dove]

They're also pretty good units.

That you can potentially make a Battleline.

[thin ibex]

for the ogor mawtribes?

[bright dove]

For Beasts of Chaos.

[upper canopy]

Yeah

[past sphinx]

It's a truly huge model

[jaunty dawn]

all the cities and stormcast ally talk yesterday made me think a stormcast list built around a core of 3 steam tanks would be kinda neat

lord ordinator is able to give them +1 to hit

the bravery buff from stormkeeps isn't necessarily super relevant but it does at least give some incentive to have redeemer units marching alongside them

[thin ibex]

I have no idea what I'm doing but heyo dragon Ogors

[bright dove]

Excellent stuff there.

Dragon Ogors are surprisingly resilient, especially by BoC standards.

And the traditional deployment strategies that you can pull off as Beasts will serve well with that muscle behind them.

[thin ibex]

I like that they can regenerate, and then the shaggoth with raging storm can regenerate them even more

[bright dove]

Indeed!

[thin ibex]

Seems like they do a little bit of everything too

[bright dove]

Indeed they do. They're a nice solid unit.

The flaw with them is objective contesting.

Only count as 6 models

[thin ibex]

I dunno what I'm doing but the free guild guys seem like the most guys that have ever guy'd

[jaunty dawn]

they're guys :)

[thin ibex]

I figure the steam tanks and luminark are more than enough ranged power, so my front line needed to all be lads

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0lnaJo5Bc&t=2s

[tired cairn]

Is the implication of that tumbnail that a dark secret of one of the space marine chapters is that they have youtubers?

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVyO-0fL31U

[dense sedge]

How well regarded are the bonereapers? My brother is a skeleton and old tk fan and he doesn’t like them

[past sphinx]

wdym?

personally i think their a great evolution of the undead aestetic that AoS needed to shoot for

love the old undead but uh AoS aint the kinda setting where some old boney bones can show up without something extra goin on

mechanically they kinda just stand there and wait for someone to charge them, then eat them fucking alive

[brittle salmon]

Bonereapers honestly fuck imo

They're very greebly with neat designs

[pastel rampart]

I think the models look fun, but the studio paintjob does them no favors.

[dense sedge]

Skeletons aren’t my tging, they’re his thing but he doesn’t like them, I was wondering what the wider community sentiment was

[jaunty dawn]

I mean I don't think bonereapers are trying to be skeletons necessarily

that's deathrattle's job

bonereapers are like hey we have all this bone and souls lying around but why make a shitty skeleton when we can soup them all together and make an abomination that sees itself as having transcended mortal foibles entirely

they're a vision of death which is no longer reliant on the living

[brittle salmon]

Bonereapers are basically trying to be a mix of undead marines and tyranids

And they achieve that I think

[jaunty dawn]

imo they look awesome for the most part. some weird models, some weird paintjobs but overall just really cool I think

they kinda have the sentinel vibes from xmen too like

[quaint compass]

Real big Shrike from the Hyperion Cantos vibes

[past sphinx]

i think you are the sole living person ive ever heard refrence the cantos

[quaint compass]

I just know of the Shrike

It's a pretty boy :D

[past sphinx]

it is a

well

its a helluva book series

a series just a little to weird to hit the mainstream and lacking the real depths of weirdness something like the foundation sequels have

[naive abyss]

i conceptually really like the ossiarchs

i just wish they didnt have cartoon skeletor smiles lol

so if i ever collected them id greenstuff them to be mouthless tbh

thers a kick ass model like that in underworld for them

like this is the vibe i wish the whole range had lol

instead they kinda are like chad meme skeletors baseline lol

[pastel rampart]

A whole army of Skeletors.

[spice flicker]

Imagine a chaos or renegade knight doing this

[past sphinx]

reminds me i need to paint some Tartan on my next knight project

because Nemo me Impune Lacessit

come to think of it i wonder how a knight would stand up to getting nuked

twice

[thin ibex]

I like that one bomereaper strategist

Their big character

I wanna make free guild armies now

[dense sedge]

free guild are cool

[upper canopy]

My favorite thing about the Bonereapers is the Orc description of them

"It's always a nice change of pace when someone just walks up and asks to fight"

About the Tithe

[bright dove]

"Bones. Give me your Orruk Bones."
"NOT WITHOUT A FIGHT FIRST, YA GIT!"

[jaunty dawn]

dinner and a movie first buddy (translation)

[bright dove]

Might have to take a stab at making an Bonereaper army.

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1751417731373490622/photo/1

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1749132789935448232

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1732080228258709865

https://fxtwitter.com/lord_carmi/status/1731377731705704775

I bet the candle makers get alot of work

like ALOT of work

[thin ibex]

Cities list!

[bright dove]

An inordinate amount.

[bright dove]

OK, finally finished the Bonereapers list. Boy oh boy, are these some resilient bois.

With the Harvesters around, I can pretty reliably regain Mortek.

And Vokmortian and the Liege-Kavalos can do a number on enemy morale.

-2 Bravery while you're within 12" of the Master of the Bone-tithe, and the Helm of Tyranny makes it so that you lose an extra d3 models every time you fail a battleshock test while within 3 inches of the person who has it.

Also, Show of Superiority is nuts

Roll a dice every time your opponent tries to do a command. On a 5+, it costs 2 command points instead of 1.

[thin ibex]

kavalos is a big time presence on the board right?

[bright dove]

Indeed.

Also Ivory Host makes Nadrite weapons so dangerou.

*dangerous

[dense sedge]

I find it a bit annoying that for some reason darkspears and dark ark corsairs are cheaper and weaker than an average freeguild steelhelm

druchii feel like they should be more elite than a human conscript

[thin ibex]

the helmet steel just that good

[bright dove]

It's nice that the Druchi have one more bravery and an extra inch of movement.

10 points a model gets you the same weapon statblock, saves, and wounds as Steelhelms, 1" extra of movement, and one more bravery. This is the same cost as Steelhelms per model.

The big difference is the Battlepriest and being able to consecrate an objective.

So without the power of faith and sigmar on their side, the elves are just better.

[floral herald]

I think I need to paint up some Word Bearers now

Erebus is such a sublime hater in the death and the end...

[thin ibex]

lol

[floral herald]

holy fuck...

[thin ibex]

"when they go low you go-"
Erebus: "-lower? Yeah, and and I'm never going to change"

[floral herald]

Maybe I should play some HH...

When they go low they find Erebus there, waiting

[brittle salmon]

How sublime we talkin

[thin ibex]

OG, certified, bonafide, crossed T, dotted I, real deal

[floral herald]

||Kills most of the long company, convinces Abaddon to use chaos and has some hand in his role as the Despoiler, defeats Constantine Valdor, ||||Kills Loken||

Extensive spoilers

[brittle salmon]

||holy shit how||

||isnt he just a schlub||

[floral herald]

Not just A schlub, The shlub

[thin ibex]

Novel Spoilers: Penitent by Dan Abnett
||Valdor do be still put putting around in the modern era||

[floral herald]

||Mostly warp magic and dark prayers and shit, but he uses the Athame on Loken||

||He beat the stodes by using warp magic to flip gravity for them but not their opponents and basically tumble them in space||

||It's a constantine POV chapter||

[uneven ember]

That's gotta be a Guild kind of deal.
Get caught doing unauthorized dribbly candles and ominous wax seals, they'll render you to tallow.

[thin ibex]

whats the normal points limit for hh games?

[floral herald]

I've heard that 2500 or 3000 pts is pretty standard

[naive abyss]

ive always loved the WB just being covered in weird ass runes

[mental birch]

Hehehe placed second at a tourney

Funniest win was

Punching

An inceptor unit to death

[unreal cosmos]

It gives some great modelling opportunities if nothing else!

What I like most about HH, at least for Space Marines, is that all the legions are getting up to some weird stuff you wouldn't necessarily expect. WB have possessed guys, possessed dreadnaughts, but also jump-pack flamer guys and scary magic plasma. Ultramarines have a bunch of cool melee units despite mostly leaning into shooting.

[pine matrix]

I specifically started collecting HH Alphas because I can steal the cool stuff from other legions

[past sphinx]

He's just a little guy

A poorly painted little guy

[thin ibex]

What is this, a battlefleet for ants?

[past sphinx]

Worse

a merchant vessel

Printing this, a pirate cruiser and an imperial battleship to remind my players of the love and grace of god

[pallid pond]

i should post my battle fleet gothic fleet at some point

[uneven ember]

awww, don't be mean

So I keep having this idea for a planet where the GSC has gone basically mainstream and everyone is just more or less cool with it when a big chunk of their neighbors are openly waiting for the day the Great Devourer descends to gather all the world into its terrible perfection.
Which is supposed to be a joke about some of the more... enthusiastically apocalyptic denominations in politics here in the States but I can't shake the feeling that it comes across as "damn you diversity"

[junior robin]

got a really dumb idea, I want to build a space marine army but on square bases and movement trays a la warhammer fantasy

[floral herald]

The death and the end 3 is really blowing out my “so silly it’s cool again” meter

[junior robin]

really hope they show off some chaos stuff for old world next week

[unreal cosmos]

'Eresy Fursday...

[thin ibex]

What's glazing mean for power scaling people?

[floral herald]

What do you mean?

[thin ibex]

im not actually sure, i saw it in a comment section

when someone pitched a battle royale between several franchises

and someone was like "you brought the best glazing communities in for this one" or something like that

was a hypothetical battle royale between some star wars, warhammer 40k, and destiny characters

so i presume it means communities that like... hype their universe hard or something

[floral herald]

Oh, glazing is like overhype yeah

Aw yiss

[jaunty dawn]

thought abby's mace was the head of a guitar for a minute

[floral herald]

Wait horrible copy-job

[floral herald]

That’s the other glowering terminator guy

[jaunty dawn]

oh wait yeah lol

ofc

abby has a sword

[floral herald]

Yeah it’s the book’s illustration for Oll Persson v Horus

[jaunty dawn]

mm

kinda bothers me jump pack assault intercessors aren't battleline

guess it means they can be only 5 points more than foot ones?

[thin ibex]

i think battleline with built in deep strike would be pretty hefty

as it is for the gk a lil bit

at like 85 points anywho

[jaunty dawn]

I would just make them cost more haha

[thin ibex]

why's it bother that they're not battleline btw?

[jaunty dawn]

sjust the point of battleline and oc2 is to make kinda wimpy units have a unique role

to represent the fact they are the line unit of the army

[thin ibex]

the jump packers already are more reliably able to get into melee and fly over obstructions iirc

so they're less battleline and more the old fast attack imo

that doesn't exist anymore

[jaunty dawn]

and I feel like with assault intercessors existing in general the like new codex line is that battleline stuff isn't necessarily tactical

like thats why assault intercessors and heavy intercessors exist yknow

it feels weird to be like assault marines are troops now! and then next edition go Uh unless they have a jump pack though!

within the primaris range I mean

and it's just like. boltguns and chainswords are bad sjkfdkhj

[thin ibex]

i suppose, to me it makes sense that the foot ones are battle line and the jumpy ones are not as much

apparently the jumpy ones have impact mw's so have more baseline threat

[jaunty dawn]

the stuff they do is unsuited for the game 40k actually is. and the whole point of troop incentives is to make it worth taking units that don't do a lot

it's not really enough to make the difference imo

[thin ibex]

i dunno about unsuited for 40k

[jaunty dawn]

esepcially since rerolling wounds is really good as well

[thin ibex]

from what i understand they're a decent performer in general for their cost

[uneven ember]

(okay but I've been doing this since 3rd Edition tho)

[jaunty dawn]

I think they're used occasionally cause they're a cheap deep strike unit

so they can deploy do an objective and then die

competetively I mean

[thin ibex]

they also go into lighter infantry well, and get units into melee well

i.e. tying up dangerous units in melee

and then have access to the impact mw's as well as the grenade strat

[jaunty dawn]

but they don't do that any better than assault intercessors, which are battleline

they are faster yeah

[thin ibex]

both the stormlance and the gladius force can also ensure adv/charge

[jaunty dawn]

but I'd rather they be a faster option for the basic troop of an assault focused space marine army

in general its just a thing where 40k incestivises units with a much higher threat

so if you want to make like a cool jump pack force

assault marines are rarely part of that at least as far as the game incentivises

[naive abyss]

https://www.deviantart.com/stormcrow135/art/Dwarven-march-52280634

[thin ibex]

i feel like thats not the case? like inceptors are incredibly competetive, possibly a must take, and they're not an incredibly high threat unit

[naive abyss]

i suspect its gonna be dorfs

[jaunty dawn]

it doesn't exclusively incentivise high threat units no but like that's. my point

idk!

I'm just saying I think it would be good if the basic jump pack troop was a basic troop xP

[thin ibex]

nah i feel ya, i don't fully agree but i feel where you're coming form

[jaunty dawn]

since the new lore no longer has any reason to make tactical and scouts the only troop

but tbh I'd probably go further and say outriders should just be battleline too

[junior robin]

fingers crossed for goblin hewer

[jaunty dawn]

and then add generic biker vets n such

and infiltrators

[thin ibex]

i think generally the battleline stuff offer more utility and objectives while the non battleline tend to be more reliably threatning; so comparative between asault intercessors who get rerolls on objectives, the jumpers get impact mw and are fast enough to reliably charge

[naive abyss]

somewhat random but does anyone happen to know the source for this art? cuz im getting nothing really on my reverse searches lol

[thin ibex]

i can see saying the jump intercessors are utility tho, since they can be used to clear backline enemy objectives

but also, i think the heavy bolt pistol/chainsword isn't honestly terriblew

[jaunty dawn]

I think mechanically speaking the only niche jump intercessors have is giving up meteoric descent for being like 30 points cheaper

and like my point is ofc that that's a bad thing; I think the game mechanics should incentivise making armies that at least resemble the lore for the factions. They just very rarely succeed in doing so

[unreal cosmos]

Assault Intercessors are Close Support

oh you mean the mechanical battleline designation

[jaunty dawn]

kinda yeah

[unreal cosmos]

see I'm annoyed at Infiltrators being batteline in fluff but not mechanics

[jaunty dawn]

lore wise it makes no sense to me that assault intercessors are assault but heavy intercessors aren't devestator

[unreal cosmos]

Also I really expected Detachments to shuffle the Battleline role around more

kinda disappointed in that respect

[unreal cosmos]

that too tbh

If there's one thing that consistently frustrates me about Primaris, it's all the little ways they jumble up the very straightforward Codex Astartes force organization

[jaunty dawn]

it just should be one way or another. and also they shouldn't have replaced assault and devastator with terms that both have support in them

I get why they did to avoid confusion n all

specially at first

[unreal cosmos]

Yeah, a lot of the range's shortcomings arise from not trying to be redundant with Firstborn

[floral herald]

Battleline is just you can take 6 though, it doesn’t seem like a very big deal

[unreal cosmos]

even though the plan was clearly to replace them eventually

[bright dove]

https://tenor.com/view/40k-warhammer-heresy-gif-13154719

[unreal cosmos]

Idk if I'm the subject or the object of this gif

[jaunty dawn]

it definitely isn't a big deal

but mechanically speaking I was also talking about the implicit OC2 that comes with it

[floral herald]

Oh that’s fair

[jaunty dawn]

ironically idk if I'd really have the probem if they weren't called intercessors?

[thin ibex]

So you think marneus had an easier time crossing the Rubicon on account of only being a torso?

[jaunty dawn]

maybe

I wonder if marneus has a like

xcom style civvies bionics

for when he's painting or whatever

like these ones

[upper canopy]

I think he had the hardest time out of anyone

Since like, the process wasn't refined at all

[junior robin]

what if the survival rate for crossing the rubicon is so high is because they just remove your head and puts it on a primaris body?

[tired cairn]

Cawl is actually three orks in holy robes

[junior robin]

now I want to build a blood axes Orkdeptuz Mekanikuz army

[unreal cosmos]

puppetswar has some real good ork techpriest models recently

[naive abyss]

very rough but concepting the karak symbol for my homebrew hold

[unreal cosmos]

oh nice

[junior robin]

problem is more that blood axes dont have any special rules yet and that meks cant join flash gitz

[naive abyss]

its gonna share the badhbhar name piece with my lov and KO

so karak badhbhar

[solemn gull]

Has anyone else had trouble with the WanG requisitions system?

[naive abyss]

the idea with the symbol is when besieged a runepriest took multiple days to forge a powerful runic axe and on the sunrise of the final day it was complete and the priest wielded the axe to lead the dwarfs to victory

[solemn gull]

I find it’s more suited to being a system to get a cool big shiny thing but I just want to get multiple cheap things like a radio and space ipad

Anyone have a work around?

[floral herald]

Yeah I don’t love it

I just kind of elide it for getting the basics

It's still kinda sinking in but I'm really impressed with the whole death and the end as a book

I admittedly skipped the bulk of the HH series but it was cool

I reallike how how it made ||all of the stories about Ollanius Pious throughout the years true||

[upper canopy]

Ah don't worry it's human nature to only get into a thing at the end

I didn't start reading KSBD until Breaker of Infinities

and I didn't go back and read stuff from before that until after it was done

[brittle salmon]

||Does he die a true death after Hours bonks him?||

[floral herald]

||So there's 3 of them there, Caecaltus Dusk (the last surviving member of the Emperor's Hetaeron Guard which teleported aboard the Vengeful Spirit with him), Garviel Loken, and Oll Persson. Which neatly maps with the confused tellings about how "Ollanius Pious" was a random guadsman, a space marine (probably an imperial fist?) or a custodes). But they're all present and all at one time interpose themselves between Horus and the Emperor||

[brittle salmon]

||Huh, neat||

[floral herald]

I've read... a few but it was pretty scattershot lol

I think there's a lot of callbacks in the last one I didn't get

[solemn gull]

okay cool because I saw there were specific packs you could get with basics as a bundle but it pains me how un-sandboxy this game is despite it being the generic 40k rpg

[floral herald]

Yeah getting gear is the weakest part of the game

The rules are weird and surprisingly un-granular

What I'd give for a rerun of Deathwatch's Requisition or Dark Heresy 1e's actual money

[brittle salmon]

Deathwatch requisition is shockingly smooth, considering the rest of the game

[solemn gull]

I am absoloutely not a fan of the wealth system

It's too abstract for me

[bright dove]

Deathwatch Requisition was great.

[solemn gull]

Yeah it makes sense for the type of game you would be playing but if the game focuses on less structured characters I would like normal currency

[brittle salmon]

Normal currency is too granular for 40k imo

[floral herald]

It works pretty well for Dark Heresy - albeit the DH system has problems because a lot of the prices are weird nonsense

[solemn gull]

I mean people still use money in the setting

[floral herald]

I think it works for Dark Heresy where you’re kinda broke bitches in the Emperor’s service

It’d be weird for Rogue Trader

Which IMO should have had something more granular than Profit Factor

Specifically like a trade goods system to fill your holds with and wheel and deal between star systems

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/stahly_top/status/1751660181736378786

[floral herald]

What’s the deal with contrast paints?

They didn’t really exist when I was learning to paint so I guess I’m old school

[pastel rampart]

They're a kind of base coat + wash mixture, but also a little more than that.

[dense sedge]

Made of ink

[pastel rampart]

If you go with a white primer and then add contrast you're basically getting the first two done. They're...interesting to play around with. Applying them over different coats can get different results.

[floral herald]

Interesting

[pastel rampart]

I do like the Vallejo Xpress line as it's much more matte, but they're also not as intense so there's a trade-off there.

Haven't tried the Army Painter Speedpaints myself, though the 2.0 line is apparently a huge step up.

One of the big things about contrast et al. is how easy it is to just...get painting. Prime white, do contrast, and if you just want some basic painting done then you're good to go. And it'll look fine!

Won't win any awards but when you're painting a coupla dozen dudes, who cares.

[dense sedge]

Slap chop is a god send for army painting

[sour sequoia]

I use neither and fully paint every dude in defiance of god and my free time

(Do not do this you get nothing for it)

I do think contrast is actually like the best bet for painting an entire army reasonably-time-wise in a way that looks good

Slap chop is the “get ‘er done” option

[desert jay]

AIUI they're just thicker than a wash and thinner than a solid coat, so they tend to give interesting gradients with how they coat and pool

https://taleofpainters.com/2023/11/top-tip-visual-comparison-of-all-61-contrast-23-speedpaints-24-gsw-dipping-inks/

This article shows off two hundred of them by 4 different paint companies, so you can see how they behave on white

And you can see how they have a lot of color but are way more interesting than a solid coat

And people will also put them over non-white basecoats to get cool color combos going

[jaunty dawn]

they also airbrush really well

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3fBcAcNshA&t=1s

[naive abyss]

tbh the newer take on her is my pref lol

just an absolute unit and no weird pointy nipples

[jaunty dawn]

oh neat

hadnt seen that

[naive abyss]

love sergeant ripper jackson

i got like two of her sitting in box

[jaunty dawn]

prefer the scrunglier bolter but yeah

[naive abyss]

the scrungly bolter is nice yeah

but ill still take the tradeoff lol

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[pastel rampart]

There's also some really interesting techniques when you do zenithal + contrast + oil washes, followed by highlights.

[jaunty dawn]

https://youtu.be/C0QHGbdF27A?si=SBqnhuOi_CG7e8DT

cult of paint has this really great vid where they do blending n stuff with contrast paints

[dense sedge]

When Malerion finally shows up do you think they’ll add them to daughter’s or make them their own faction

[naive abyss]

i mean im pretty sure it would be a distinct faction

like he rules a whole realm and the umbraneth have a pretty distinctly different look from the daughters

[jaunty dawn]

specially with crone lady adding more support for non morathi aligned dok

[dense sedge]

Kreuthesa has a very cool model

[naive abyss]

i like her model i just sorta wish they not anchored her to daughters

if in part due to me liking the idea that malekith is secretly actually working to help the visions of the hag goddess and being "good tm" in a very roundabout sorta way

[dense sedge]

I wish daughters let both men and women become half naked murder cultists and sexy monsters

[jaunty dawn]

i mean her introductory storybeat doesnt really have anything to do with daughters

helping some guys

[naive abyss]

i mean sure but shes still like at least mechanically stapled to the daughters atm

[jaunty dawn]

sure but that can definitely change

[naive abyss]

fair enough

ultimately with daughters i like the lamias with some actual armor on and sorta just dont like anything else in the range lol

[jaunty dawn]

i like shadowstalkers

they have the aos juice

[naive abyss]

those too

[upper canopy]

He's got shadow-elves

[naive abyss]

but those just exist as "prototype umbraneth" in my head lol

[jaunty dawn]

i like the underworlds sisters of slaughter

[floral herald]

Death and the end 3 spoilers ||this is honestly maybe the highlight of the book for going beyond goofiness back into cool for this book. Up there with “Sanguinius moved at the speed of light but Horus moved at the speed of darkness”||