Warhammer and Such

[pulsar cairn]

what would i look like

[dense sedge]

Yeah

I was disappointed by how weak melted felt

[naive abyss]

oop wrong thing lol

was trying to send a screen cap with some brett lore lol

[floral herald]

No melta has been more disappointing than the chaos gate daemonhunters multi-melta servitor

[tired cairn]

Clearly the servitor is the problem there

[naive abyss]

dame knights stay winning

[tired cairn]

I am imagining the 40k Knight errant here, and I feel like it would prove itself in combat pretty fast

Though maybe not because no one could do the startup rituals lol

[naive abyss]

very random but man its sorta hilarious to me how much more i dig hippogryphs to pegasus for bretts

such a cool mount

oh shit the really old brett paladins are coming as made to order

thats pretty cool actually

i really like some of these too tbh

[floral herald]

Maybe yeah

It’s just so sad because it has really intense vfx and does two (2) damage

(Storm bolters do 4 or more damage usually)

[tired cairn]

lmao

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZlHQlmyzs

somewhat random but im sorta bummed old worlds is not coming out with a new goblin boss sculpt atm

though its not like there arent good options from the gloomspite range lol

also apparently the new brett book has some gay pining knights lol

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WBDl8E

[valid brook]

tiny feets

[pine matrix]

Let's Go

[pulsar holly]

@naive abyss have you heard about how they’re treating the time period Old World is covering as the Horus Heresy moment for Fantasy’s setting?

[jaunty dawn]

gining

[naive abyss]

in what sense?

[jaunty dawn]

horus heresy is to 3 through 7th edition as old world is to warhammer fantasy battle system in general

[pulsar holly]

Lore wise

Hold on, lemme see if I can track down the Twitter post

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I guess my more relevant point is that like, it makes sense thats why they chose the period they did if they view it as the heresy moment

given the seeming goal with old world is to do horus heresy again

but for fantasy

[pulsar holly]

An early question for us was: “What was the Horus Heresy moment in the Old World? What was the Siege of Terra moment?” The conclusion we came to was that the Destruction of Praag and the Siege of Kislev were pivotal – the rise of Asavar Kul represented the true return of Chaos to the Old World.

Ever since the days of Sigmar, mighty champions of Chaos have risen every few centuries to claim the title of Everchosen and lead grand incursions from the Northern Wastes to further the power of Chaos. The Everchosen prior to Kul was possessed by Be’lakor and destroyed, so he didn’t achieve what the Ruinous Powers had hoped, which left Chaos with weakened influence in the years that followed. It’s Asavar Kul who rises up and destroys Praag, bringing Chaos back into the world. He’s defeated at Kislev, but while the nations of the Old World think that means Chaos has been driven back, the reality is that it’s a tipping point – something has changed in the world, and from that point on, it is doomed.

[floral herald]

Huh that’s interesting

[pulsar holly]

That feels a lot less grim and bloody compared to the Horus Heresy
But I suppose I’ll take it

If it means expanding more on the time period

[naive abyss]

i mean if you mean in that its in an earlier point on the timeline than yeah its like the HH

[naive abyss]

in fairness in general fantasy was less grim and bloody than 40k

still grim and bloody but not as over the top generally with it

[pulsar holly]

I know

I mean in them comparing it or calling it Fantasy’s Horus Heresy moment

Chaos shows up, levels one city, gets their ass beat and went scrambling back north

[floral herald]

It's not a real horus heresy unless its a quickly created lore snippet to justify models which look basically the same fighting

Something I enjoy about the HH is how its like one of the most covered events in 40k now and it just started as an aside for titanicus

Poking through Rogue Trader again

I didn't realize that Lion Eljonson was that old, or that he was originally Lyyn Elgonsen

[upper canopy]

I mean

It leads to chaos winning forever

So it's actually way more grim in that respect

[naive abyss]

yeah DA are super old

i think they were one of the first still around marine groups to some degree

[floral herald]

Lion is the surprising one for me

[naive abyss]

the reason their scheme changed is also forever funny to me

also i think imma have to email gw customer service again

still havent gotten the copy of rogue trader i ordered

[floral herald]

Like original leman russ was just a guy

[naive abyss]

mm mm

[upper canopy]

He's the first baby

He's perfect

[dense sedge]

I think a bunch of primarchs were originally just guys

[upper canopy]

Guranta D. Gurantan is my new one piece oc

[pine matrix]

Bring back Russ' mouth grille

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDr0MmtBavw

[jaunty dawn]

I'm so excited for these kroot gosh

I think one reason is like

all the new animal kroot we're gonna get

cause like other than that it's basically just tyranids and squigs for beasts yknow

kinda daemons. horses exist

dark eldar had it as a thing once but it's been neglected

but like getting range of awesome xenofauna is gonna be so great

[untold swallow]

I'm trying to think of characters for a weird alt-universe vermintide

as character fodder for a wfrp game

So far I have a kislevite druzhina/duellist for the Kruberlike and a shaman vigilant for the saltzpyrelike which leaves sienna, bardin, and kerillian

[untold swallow]

the only real dark elf beast stuff I've seen has been the druchii in Fantasy so I can see why the kroot stuff is exciting

[jaunty dawn]

they were part of wych cults

clawed fiend

khymera

razorwing

[untold swallow]

you have made me look up what a wych cult is and

holy shit lmao

'dinner time kids, lets go watch people murder each other'

[jaunty dawn]

ye

they have beast masters for collecting animals to murder and or be murdered by people

captured space marines are considered animals for this purpose apparently

[untold swallow]

This is so very interesting

[dense sedge]

I wish we had new beast masters and beasts

A beastmaster kill team would be cool

Comprised of a beastmaster and 2 of each beast

[untold swallow]

Do I make the Sienna-equivalent a Kislevite ice witch…

[jaunty dawn]

damb

the original resin aux were a wild free-time passion project tho tbf

[pulsar cairn]

the solar auxilia is so cool

their tech was better but were they also better trained when compared to your average guardsman?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I think so

not to a like stormtrooper level or anything

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/19ccvz3/hekaton_commander/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/19cevhg/uthar_paint/

[floral herald]

oooh

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2XwIegqTk_/?igsh=dm8xM3JobjV3eGxv

adriansmithartist

Go to my #youtube channel if you want to see how I made this #fanart . A blast from the past for the fans of my #warhammer work. Cheers! #warhammer40k #warhammercommunity #warhammerchaos #nurgle #painting #drawing #acrylicpainting #traditionalart

Likes

4980

Instagram

New Adrian Smith

[untold swallow]

random warhammer fantasy question

are mages allowed to have children?

[floral herald]

If a Magister has a child, they will either be sent far away never to see their parents or know of their abilities, or they will be raised in the traditions and spellcraft of the Order of Magic that their parents belong to -- there is rarely any other choice.

According to old wfrp stuff

I'm a little confused what the third option beyond "go" or "stay" is haha

[untold swallow]

Likely

An unpleasant one

But it is good to know that one of my character ideas of 'precious princess chamon wizard belongs to a wizard family and goes adventuring' can be a thing

[floral herald]

yeah

[untold swallow]

She will be the most annoying bitch you have ever seen

[tired cairn]

I guess you don't get to choose a different profession or even order of magic if you stay?

[floral herald]

Hmm yeah I suppose that might be one

This is the stupidest 40K fan thing to complain about but I wish Abnett would ever talk about larraman cells in this book

But I get that it messes up narrative flow

[cloud flicker]

Omfg the Tau subreddit is having a field day

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/s/DKiY8uBnKD

[naive abyss]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/959855447966371891/1199012459734909029/Sin_titulo.jpeg?ex=65c0fe5e&is=65ae895e&hm=3af3e3eb2c108d98c10b2c7b2337958bf4a22811aec89ce07324c7029a359bdb&

[thin ibex]

Larriman cells do what again?

[thin ibex]

are their new rules weak or something?

[bold halo]

I've seen people selling their collections, idk specifics but they're definitely mad about it

apparently the shields just aren't accounted for at all in the datasheet

[ebon forge]

It seems nobody is happy with 10e

[bright dove]

It's the insta clotting that Space Marines have

[pulsar cairn]

I'm a space marine

[jaunty dawn]

don't they have 4 wounds

[junior robin]

the legacy rules for old world is up and I got to say seeing all the options really activates my neurons

[ebon forge]

Speezz...

[junior robin]

the chaos dwarfs units are the old FW ones!

god the money they would get from me if they where still sold

[tepid stratus]

Well yeah what else would they be?

[pastel rampart]

The original big hat ones from 4e/5e, preferably.

[junior robin]

yeah, since orcs will use the old metal giants and trolls

[tepid stratus]

I don't think there's enough of those in the wild to justify them getting rules tbh

(the big hats, no clue about metal giants)

[thin ibex]

i dunno, im overall happy with 10e i think

[bold halo]

I'm happy enough with 10e I'm getting back into it after 5 editions of not playing

at least I would be if my kill team box would ever ship

release date was over a week ago

[thin ibex]

Like there's definitely things to be critical of with 10e, but I'm overall a fan of it

[ebon forge]

Call the delivery company and make hell rain

[bold halo]

I think they oversold stock and are trying to cover their asses tbh

but I can't just cancel and order somewhere else because canadian retailers are largely already sold out as far as I can see

wheeeeeee

[floral herald]

Blood clots super fast, prevents bleeding injuries in most cases

[floral herald]

Specifically they’re more expensive, can’t be taken as a unit of 10, and their melee weapons lost a point of damage in most cases.

Ofc, codex points costs are often outdated by the time to codex prints so that part is kind of moot but they lost a lot of damage

[thin ibex]

I mean, I don't think any terminators have damage 3 melee do they? Even a th is d2

[ebon forge]

Oh nono, is to call and ask why they are past date and haven't told you anything and then threaten legal action

[floral herald]

DWK had damage 3 maces

I think just going from 235 to 295 (iirc) points is what harms them most

D3 maces were kind of an aberration

[thin ibex]

yeah thats a hefty price increase

but also not unexpected with recent dex releases and points costs

as you've mentioned

I am a bit surprised that they don't have any additional tags like sustained hits, dev wounds, or lethal hits

but we don't know what their special rules are yet do we?

as a unit i mean

[floral herald]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1161696278640594954/1198036794810306733/1705698264701446.jpg?ex=65bd71b6&is=65aafcb6&hm=5d248bc3aa4f7626c03cde9345ffad5092df7867c25e5c7dcb22fbe4d509b102&

[thin ibex]

ah ty

sergeant weapon isn't slouch

and mass ws2+?

[floral herald]

This is all stuff they had before, DWK just used to be basically the premier melee terminators

[thin ibex]

yeah, i don't... hate the power focusing in on the sergeant a bit

BUT

hella spensive

but also

they seem way more resilient than they are powerful

[bold halo]

yeah for context a normal terminator assault squad of 5 is 195 points, this is a 100 point premium over that for not a lot of gain

one extra attack at better WS but lower strength and AP than a thunder hammer, same statline, option to go to a bigger unit that these don't have

[thin ibex]

2+/4++/-1 to Damage will really be a hefty stick in the mud. Interested to see what new strategems synergize with them. I doubt anything will fully justify the cost though

[floral herald]

Inner Circle circle is pretty good but also probably not worth 100 pts given most of the rest is trade offs

[bold halo]

you're basically paying 100 points for more accurate but less powerful attacks and inner circle, one time feel no pain

that's a lot of points

[thin ibex]

i suspect a really good deathwing strat may justify them more than currently, but not enough

do we have fresh leaks on like... whatever his name is, the deathwing grand master?

[floral herald]

let me check

[thin ibex]

i do suspect their points costs will get lowered on the following balance pass

only coming in a squad of 5 i actually don't have an issue with, to illustrate their exclusivity and small number

but being 100 points more than normal termies and not bringing any major tools to topple heavier enemies

termies are already a unit that's tougher than they are dangerous

[bold halo]

they're worse than normal terminators at taking on heavy enemies

difference between 6 strength and 8 is huge

[thin ibex]

Well, tbf, they both wound on a 5 against all targets below t12

And t10 and t11 are a bit more common

[tired cairn]

Worse at taking on space marines

[thin ibex]

That's the notable one, with ws2 and wounding on 3s for the dw, with either ap2 d1 or ap1 d2; vs ws3, wounding on 2's

Assuming power fists

[floral herald]

Oh hey

This was the new krootox rider guys

[jaunty dawn]

hmm

not sure it is

but definitely in the style of a lot of the new kroot knives

so probably something unrevealed

hard to tell from this angle

[floral herald]

I was looking at this one, which looks pretty similar

[jaunty dawn]

ohh

[naive abyss]

Still love the new kroot Ngl

[bold halo]

the krootox are an insane upgrade

[jaunty dawn]

thisis the one in the article for that pose haha

[floral herald]

ohh yeah that'd make it tricky

[bold halo]

like he's cool and all but god damn

[thin ibex]

suprisingly unimpressive

im so fucking stoked for new kroot

especially 2 kinds of krootox riders

[jaunty dawn]

moving to a 50 mm base is gonna be so good

and possibly make them technically the biggest model in kill team

[ebon forge]

It's very refreshing to see so much Kroot love

[thin ibex]

Been reppin kroot for so long, very happy to see them get the support

Especially a true HQ

[jaunty dawn]

my only worry is the komodo dragon is a knarloc redesign and not a new kroot beast

[thin ibex]

And new krootox

[floral herald]

Ok that's a funny knock-on effect for sure

[jaunty dawn]

from the start of year silhouette video

but I don't think that would happen really. dinosaurs are too iconic

just hope we do get knarlocs though

but after the shrike debacle I'm not certain

[floral herald]

Shrike?

[jaunty dawn]

the lack thereof in the tyranid release

despite winged prime existing making it seem a done thing

[floral herald]

Oh yeah that shrike thing

That was weird

[jaunty dawn]

at least he can give warriors advance and charge in vanguard detachment

[floral herald]

I was like "yeah kayvaan shrike's redesign was pretty extreme, but I didn't think people hated it that much"

space marine brain

[junior robin]

was a bad idea to look at the legacy rules for old world, really want to make some armies for it now....

[upper canopy]

Why is it all italians

[ebon forge]

A dude asked if using a Zulu tribe minis for Kroot was a good idea
Then he used the card that he was Italian and sensibility there is different

[upper canopy]

Ah

[ebon forge]

Then it imploded

[floral herald]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/199vcke/proxy_for_kroot_racism_check/

It all started here

Which like augh

Why do you need a check for this

[pastel rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/sopranos-italiano-gif-25255220

[untold swallow]

I would think that yeah

[ebon forge]

And thus

[untold swallow]

That's probably at least kind of racist

[floral herald]

Some of the fallout was funny though

[desert jay]

looks at history of Italian colonialism in Africa. Eesh

[untold swallow]

Yeah like

Libya says hello

[tepid stratus]

Ood the more I read the comments the worse it gets

[ebon forge]

yeeeeah..

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/WH40kbestof/status/1749061030183891305

[thin ibex]

hmm

gonna try to do a FULL TILT melee nid list i think

and then maybe... 100% hovering/no one touching the ground sm list

(i count grav tanks or grav transports with normal infantry inside as counting for that xD)

[bold halo]

you can have grav transports but the boys inside can't come out

the floor is lava after all

[junior robin]

I know it would be unplayable but I am really tempted to design a airforce-centered space marine chapter.

[pastel rampart]

Make them a SW derivative chapter called "Air Wolf"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C6Qq3tknXc

[ebon forge]

WOLF?!

Silly billy there is no thing as a wolf

[glossy vapor]

they could be good as iron hands succsesors, since the original legion was all about large scale, shock and awe armored assault

which works almost as well, if not better, with aircraft than tanks.

[cloud flicker]

@upper canopy Mizu neglected the part that the Italian guy is very much in on the joke.

[ebon forge]

HAH

I did not knew that

[cloud flicker]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/s/wYA1MFJyKU

This was his next post

Either way Italian Kroot is a fresh joke

[floral herald]

Huh I was looking up why Blood Gorgons never got a sequel and damn, I did not know about the plagiarism stuff

I guess that's why Henry Zou just disappeared

Apparently Flesh and Iron just took whole passages out of someone's Iraq war memoir????

[bright dove]

oh

[thin ibex]

I think actually it'd be very playable! Just not hugely competitive

[floral herald]

The biggest problem is probably most flyers being sort of bad competitively

[bold halo]

yeah as I understand it they either have hover and get to be playable or don't and aren't

[thin ibex]

Because hover mode let's you bring flyers in on turn one, you don't have to hate being in reserve till turn 2.

The main thing is fliers have no OC and are relatively fragile and don't output enough firepower to justify it. But in casual games they can absolutely come through I think

[dense sedge]

I hadn't noticed how the lroes of magic had been changed till now

[thin ibex]

We even had tournament winning lists recently that featured Stormravens

[dense sedge]

Slaan having necromancy does feel a bit weird though

[thin ibex]

So in some circumstances, fliers can even be competitive. They just aren't in general

[bold halo]

hover also means you don't have to play nascar simulator with it

[floral herald]

I've heard the Voidraven Bomber is pretty decent but I don't really get why

[junior robin]

also the closest to a flying HQ is master of the ravenwing

[floral herald]

Ok I can see it

That's actually a lot of firepower

[thin ibex]

Unfortunately wort, yes there is no flying hq, then again there very few vehicle HQs in general

[junior robin]

sad world eater tank company noises

[floral herald]

I'm so sad the codex teased weird not-berserker WE formations and then was just like "sorry no rules for you"

[jaunty dawn]

aircraft seems really fun in LI at least

[floral herald]

"You WILL live or die by your footslogging T2 charges"

[jaunty dawn]

and then you can actually field multiple marine aircraft in a battle lol

[glossy vapor]

seeing the new kroot, I actually think it would be really cool to tear off all the non tau (the species) units into their own army, the tau auxiliary: make kroot the majority of the forces, but throw in 4-5 other species with a couple of units each (like the niccasar, vespid, or thraxian, even demiurge) to fill different rolls, give them vehicles that are a mix of more bare bones or outdated tau designs, and indigenous tech from auxiliary species.

I feel like there is a lot that can be done lore wise there, leaning into the idea that the tau generally view other species as lacking sovereignty, and tend to keep their military separate from the fire caste proper. Like, some in the auxiliary see their efforts one day proving their worth in tau society, others feel manipulated into service to serve as fodder while the fire caste get all the support. And others are just mercenaries hoping to make money.

maybe for some species like the kroot we get a commissar like unit that has a lot of tau equipment and is meant to represent a kroot who trained with the fire caste and is meant to bring the auxiliaries more in line with tau thought and tactics. Some soldiers view this as the beginning of more support and potentially battle changing technology and training. Others see it as the start of the tau subsuming kroot and other auxillary cultures into what the ethereals view as best.

[thin ibex]

I'm actually less keen on seperating out kroot or other auxes from the tau proper and rathre incorporating them more clearly

because im not a fan of tau just being the bots guys

despite that being the general push for years

[jaunty dawn]

specially with the way that like ally rules are going

[floral herald]

LI seems cool

[thin ibex]

they started as a combined arms force, and thats what got me interested in them

[floral herald]

I should see if I can find some models around me

[jaunty dawn]

it would stop auxiliaries being part of tau altogether

[glossy vapor]

you could do it like gsc has with guards where you get to take 1/4 of your list as the other faction.

[jaunty dawn]

I guess there's also the fact that like. the auxiliaries don't fight together, they all fight with tau

kroot are allied with tau and then tau are allied with vespid, but vespid and kroot themselves have not much reason to hang out otherwise

[floral herald]

My take is that they should get rid of the auxiliaries in general for the Tau and just characterize them as a multi-species empire held together by shared ideology

The second-class empire members is I think getting a little bit weirder as narrative time in the setting advances

[jaunty dawn]

like just making fire warrior a generic term for a rifleman of any species?

[floral herald]

I hadn't thought about that but that's a fun idea

Tau Fire Warriors, Kroot Fire Warriors, Vespid Fire Warriors, etc

[thin ibex]

tbh, I think the second class empire members is kind of fitting for the faction narrative

[jaunty dawn]

it would at least put to rest the clamouring for gue'seva that have basically no real mechanical niche so you might as well proxy them already

xP

[dense sedge]

I'm sorry, what's this?

[jaunty dawn]

taros campaign did have a human miner unit which had ogryns embedded which was cool tbf

[glossy vapor]

ok, that does throw a wrench in things.

I guess (and maybe this is copium for my idea) you could say that as times has changed and the tau has become more threatened, they have had to mobilize more troops from even auxillaries to replace or create whole fomations resulting in mixed auxillary units being deployed for the first time.

[jaunty dawn]

but the gue'seva profile from the same book is like cheaper but worse fire warrior iirc

[floral herald]

Gue'vesa Greater Good fanatics as a melee tarpit clearly

[thin ibex]

tbh, they'd be largely sitting in the same mechanical space as kroot carnivores in that situation

without the scout move

[floral herald]

Carnivores aren't great tarpits but its sort of similar yeah

[thin ibex]

and proabbly a better save

well, carnivores are low save, high volume pits, that can gain a hefty fnp if they actually manage to kill something

[jaunty dawn]

they're very inspired by how like the roman empire had very advanced heavy infantry but like almost no equastrianism whatsoever, so they used provincial auxiliaries

from places that had the infrastructure for cavalry already

[thin ibex]

They also used provincial auxiliary skirmishers/ light infantry alongside cavalry

[glossy vapor]

would having both:

-agressive skirmisher units like crisis or ghoskeel, or devil-breachers
-gunline units like hammerhead, strike team, or riptide

• and then a grabbag of several species, each with a niche

lead to many disperate mechanical ideas in the faction? I ask as someone who is intrested in 40k tabletop like, in theory, but has not played any games.

[thin ibex]

I don't think so personally, i think that leads to a well rounded faction that is able to approach a number of tactical concepts

[jaunty dawn]

not any more than a lot of the established factions tbh

tau are fairly unique in how skewed they are currently

but like eldar orks marines have pretty much the whole spread available through one aspect or another

[bold halo]

eldar especially have a wide range of turbo specialized guys that you mix and match to build your particular flavor of force

[rocky shale]

For Eldar all the melee aspects are kinda garbage right now so it's very shooting-skewed outside of the avatars

[floral herald]

Eldar have I think always been a fairly shooting centric faction but with some really specialized strong melee

[jaunty dawn]

part of what makes stuff like eldar consistenly good is they just have so much stuff at least something is bound to be overtuned

[glossy vapor]

i guess part of the reason i went with my idea is because i dont like the idea that kroot are somewhat integrated into the tau military but barely have any tau tech.

like, i think it just doesent work visually on tabletop, it looks like 2 seperate factions when you have kroot next to a fire warrior.

[jaunty dawn]

their ammo is tau made actually

[glossy vapor]

thats why i said barely any.

[jaunty dawn]

and they essentially just don't want to use anything else, kroot specifically are luddites

[floral herald]

That and “effective mobile specialists” is just a super strong wargame archetype

[jaunty dawn]

compared to the vespids who have like command helmets and very tau style weapons

[solemn gull]

a new joke? in a 40k sub!?!

[jaunty dawn]

and armour!

any new auxiliaries would likely look far more like vespids than kroot

[solemn gull]

I just want a grue’la upgrade sprue

[thin ibex]

at least to me, the juxtaposition is part of the appeal, with the lo-hi contrast really lending itself to the overall composition

it also hooks well into Tau imperialism themes

when i paint up my kroot thogh i absolutely intend to use a shared accent or primary color to link them into each other

[dense sedge]

As a kid, Tau were my favorite 40k army, in large part due to kroot

[thin ibex]

like my fire warriros wear silver, the kroot might have silver shoulder plates

i think my younger self linked into and liked the idea of the super hi-tech faction also understanding the value/utilizing analogue through their aux to good effect

not in those terms of course

as a note, im not dismissing your critique around the aesthetic clash, i think its a valid one, and one i think gw has leaned away from historically, focusing more on the tau species aestetic for some time.

I ultimately think of it as a positive though, despite that

[uneven ember]

Maybe they should just put the Gue'la and Demiurg in by just saying "you can take a Guard/ LoV squad if you want."

[thin ibex]

my usual thought about guevesa is just doing some kitbashing and fielding guevesa as fire warriors mechanically

rather than them needing to be their own unit

[floral herald]

It’s pretty easy kitbashing

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah that is the other way to do it.

[glossy vapor]

yeah this is a very subjective thing, some people like the variety, some people like the concistency

like, even what you where saying about tau imperialism themes through kroot visuals, it can go both ways. lacking tech can indicate their species isnt purview to the best the tau can offer, and having a lot of tau tech can show the tau replacing their culture and seeking to make them dependent on tau tech.

[solemn gull]

Damn those new models really make you realize how scary kroot are

[naive abyss]

The demiurge already exist

[glossy vapor]

yeah

[naive abyss]

It's the lov selling pulse tech to tau while politely saying "no thank you" to joining up

Or ion tech I forget which

[jaunty dawn]

ion

[naive abyss]

Lol

[floral herald]

Wow an archeo-meme

[thin ibex]

the LoV did sell ion tech to the tau, but the tau did not get all their tech from the LoV

[solemn gull]

Kroot are a army of yaujia

[thin ibex]

yaujia?

[floral herald]

The kind of alien the predator in Predator is

[thin ibex]

ahh ok

[naive abyss]

I never said they did lol

[thin ibex]

honestly they kinda are? Though they also eat their prey if the shaper wills it; and are far less technologically advanced

predators from Predator i mean. There's definitely some overlap that i imagine is intentional

[desert jay]

Yeah IIRC there's some stuff about the Kroot intentionally being primtivists who could bring fancy toys but don't

[floral herald]

There’s some common ground, like the yautja also use much lower tech than normal for their hunting

[thin ibex]

yeah that too

[floral herald]

Because it’s not sporting to shoot someone from orbit

[solemn gull]

Well I couldnt say Tau are predators because duh they eat meat

[desert jay]

And one reason Kroot take part in warfare is they think it puts positive selection pressure on their species in a weird Darwinist thing

[floral herald]

Though I think the expanded universe stuff for the yautja is… mostly dumb

[junior summit]

but the invisibility cloak and shoulder plasma cannon is extremely fair

/s

[floral herald]

Well yeah that’s stuffs edc

[desert jay]

TBF, he only shoots his gun if the other guy also has a gun. Not his fault his gun is better

Come to think of it, the US soldiers are also wearing camo uniforms, Predator just has better camo

So yeah, it's "fair"

[solemn gull]

I’m now mentally putting Kroot on the same level of “horror movie villain” as a genestealer

[upper canopy]

Well it's not "they think", it does

[tired cairn]

I kind of want something where some of the predators do the equivalent of helicopter hunting with their spaceships now though

[upper canopy]

War allows them to continue to devour and eat sentient races that allows their offspring to evolve into more intellegent kroot-forms

Rather than dead-ending into stuff like Hounds or Knarlocs

[tired cairn]

Clearly Kroot are a tyranid offshoot

[upper canopy]

It's implied they might be

Or the original kroot form ate tyranids and gained their adaptation ability as a result

[desert jay]

I mean the "if you kick the bucket on the battlefield you were too weak" mentality, not just the eating bit

But also yes the eating is a thing

[cloud flicker]

Ikr?

Kroot are fucking awesome

I’m glad we are getting new models

I’m also glad they are embracing space western for them.

[desert jay]

They can fight a kelermorph, they'll probably think it's the tastiest thing they've seen

[soft willow]

Wasn't there a whole thing with the Kroot rejecting Tyranid biomass because they could tell there's bad shit in it?

[ebon forge]

The T'au subreddit is being funny right now

Also, not even bothered to mirrow the Zulu's head, tsk tsk

[still warren]

The thread that keeps on giving

[thin ibex]

Yeah shapers generally don't like guiding the kroot to eat nids because of their unstable biology

They also don't eat chaos

Generally speaking anyway

There are always exceptions

[desert jay]

Yeah after reading his comments I'm like... "if your environment is that toxic I don't blame you for asking reddit of all places"

[cloud flicker]

Good on him tbqh

If he’s gotta quench his 40k desires but has weird local groups

I don’t blame him

[dense sedge]

I wonder what the new lores from the old world will have for their spells

[thin ibex]

Floor is lava list. I'm cheating by using the astraeus I think

Incidentally there's like no lore about the astraeus

[desert jay]

Could always get more Gladiators

(Or storm speeders, whatever)

And I'm told flyers also exist

[thin ibex]

For sure, originally I was going with 2 gladiators and 2 speeders

But I was like "hmm I never see astraeus"

[floral herald]

Wow it really does have like no lore

[thin ibex]

Incidentally as I understand it, the biggest feature for the astraeus not being competitive has to do with LoS and being unable to effectively navigate maps, seems to have decent firepower but is somewhat overcosted

[tepid stratus]

It's the same reason the banebkade doesn't see much use. It's too big to navigate most tables

[thin ibex]

"Otherwise decent but too big"

Could probably field it depending on map construction and be happy

With its performance, if the map allows for it

Do wish it had more lore

[floral herald]

Big expensive models seem to be generally noncompetitive right now

[junior robin]

the old mounted wight king sure had drip

[desert jay]

Yeah, I remember part of the map rules is at least enough space to fit a Knight's base the short way, so it could even be worse

[thin ibex]

I'd probably field a bb on the guard frequently anyway

Just because I think it's otherwise real neat rules atm

[tepid stratus]

Yeah the stores I play at follow the recommended table setups which means anything wider than 120mm is stuck in deployment if it can't fly

[thin ibex]

New rule, all superheavies have indirect fire xD

[desert jay]

Baneblade is 140mm wide (plus sponsons)

[jaunty dawn]

superheavies used to live on bigger boards by default

but yeah it upsets me like ppl hate on the toxicrene because it's tentacles make it have awkward rules interactions

[thin ibex]

I like the base bb rule of being cover for everything else behind it

[jaunty dawn]

n it's like the way you are playing this game doesn't feel it has it's priorities correct to me sdfhjdshj

[floral herald]

Isn't the Toxicrene one of the premier "set it up backwards" models?

[bold halo]

yeah the superheavies were meant for much larger than normal games on much larger than normal tables

not surprised they suffer at regular levels of play

[jaunty dawn]

yeahh

it's got a big mass of tentacles that hang off the confines of the base

[desert jay]

Obviously a baneblade should be able to drive through terrain, removing it

[bold halo]

that'd be kinda cool ngl

[floral herald]

I think the old Cities of Death book had rules for destroying ruins

With like, Ordnance Blast weapons iirc

Or maybe a special shell you could pay for something?

I don't remember

[bold halo]

the thing's the size of those enormous coal mine dump trucks, not much should slow it down

[desert jay]

Honestly extend that to anything with a "demolisher cannon", let it do what it says on the tin

[floral herald]

Found it!

Along with general rules for destroying ruins

[bold halo]

good ol' apocalypse

I'd recognize that font and background anywhere

spent enough time reading my 4th edition rulebook as a teenager that it literally fell apart

[floral herald]

This was actually 4e Cities Of Death

Which I think came out immediately before it and looks super similar

[jaunty dawn]

it's pretty much the 4e font in general

[thin ibex]

i wonder how the bigger non titan superheavies would feel with a "plow through" spcial table rule to just crush through obstacles

maybe at a difficult terrain penalty or something

[bold halo]

oh hey I totally forgot about cities of death

[thin ibex]

or turning said terrain INTO difficult terrain

[floral herald]

Something like this is probably fairly accurate

[jaunty dawn]

not the same thing exactly but all aos monsters can use the smash to rubble rampage at the end of the charge phase. either removes rules from a piece of faction terrain or removes the garrison capacity of a building

[floral herald]

Though for opening up the map for big models might be best done with this

[thin ibex]

I'd be keen to try out something like that with a big 40k superheavy, charge phase can smash terrain into difficult terrain rule if the charge is successful

[floral herald]

Unrelated but I love the conversions in this

[bold halo]

the hobby part of the books was always my favourite

different paint schemes and conversions

[floral herald]

Cities of Death has some great ones too

[thin ibex]

cities of death also had that iconic "tau vs vostroyan" art iirc

[bold halo]

god damn it was before the plastic wraithlord

[thin ibex]

a bit funny that the scene is "Two long range rifleman oriented factions get into a brawl"

[bold halo]

also the russian guardsmen fight the greater good tau

[floral herald]

These Iron Knights are also interesting - I'm not sure where the little primaris shields came from back then

[jaunty dawn]

wouldn't be surprised if they were made from scratch

[bold halo]

that or pulled from a fantasy kit

[jaunty dawn]

I think they were in a terminator kit of some sort at some point though. swolves maybe

[south axle]

I think an upgrade kit for termites had something like that

I'd say DA or BT are more likely than swolves

[jaunty dawn]

assault terms

[junior robin]

I think they are scratch-built since they are so thin compared to all the official ones I have seen 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

have one each

[floral herald]

I think whf makes the most sense for them - the terminator ones are embossed with other symbols

[south axle]

Depending on when the Iron Knights were made, Grey Knights have some in their non-termie and termie kits

[floral herald]

I was thinking that - but plastic GK came out a few years later

[south axle]

Wasn't sure on the timeline

[floral herald]

this is making me crazy haha, I found some more pics

https://ifelix.net/iron-knights-space-marines

[jaunty dawn]

oh doubt that is scratch built

recognise some clothy bits from the command squad

[floral herald]

I think the red guys are from the old dark angels character sprue

[jaunty dawn]

have an unrelated confusion

did this ever come out??

can't find it on the store

[floral herald]

That's the captain right?

[jaunty dawn]

multipart terminator captain

[floral herald]

I don't think it did

[jaunty dawn]

revealed alongside the rest of the marine stuff

[desert jay]

There's is currently no terminator captain available on the webstore

[floral herald]

Maybe soon then

Hopefully not another MOP case

[jaunty dawn]

this is a different model to the combat patrol one

[floral herald]

Oh yeah I guess it might be kind of differen then

Since he's just never come out

[pastel rampart]

Metal GK termies came with their own little separate shields, and this was back when you could order bitz directly from GW.

So it's entirely possible that those are all pewter shields.

[jaunty dawn]

thoroughly confused

[desert jay]

Oh huh, apparently the webstore also sorts Grey Knights into the Space Marine category

[jaunty dawn]

I have the piece I'm pretty sure. it's plastic

[floral herald]

The shoulder shield?

Do you know what it's from?

[jaunty dawn]

nope :T

it's sized for a terminator though

and we never bought any blood angel or black templar stuff

[floral herald]

Ok here's my guess

They're from the contemporary Assault Terminators but have been filed down

Jesus that's a lot of work

[floral herald]

wait

I found it

[jaunty dawn]

!!

[floral herald]

Guy on the left

Wait this is too modern

fuck

Or was it

[jaunty dawn]

no I don't think so

it was like a rebox

they did at the time

there was one for a command squad + a chaplain

[floral herald]

Ah ok that makes sense

Because those looked like the right termies in the wrong packaging

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's just ike different options used

[floral herald]

yeah

[pastel rampart]

Plastic termies came out in 2005, so that might line up.

[floral herald]

Cities of Death is 2006

So that's just about perfect

Ok that was a surprisingly mundane answer

[pastel rampart]

Ah sorry, 2004 was base termies, 2005 was assault.

[jaunty dawn]

could've recast it a bunch with blue stuff

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Miniatures:_Space_Marines Surprisingly comprehensive.

[floral herald]

That's such a good resource

[pastel rampart]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/7/7a/Termiclawscollecpg20.jpg

This was the coolest shit when I first started.

[thin ibex]

itsa bit funny that since the new termies came out

the old termies look squished

[naive abyss]

i mean they are space marines lol

[uneven ember]

The best extended universe for the yautja would be if the guys showing up on Earth were space alien dentists on safari.

[bright dove]

That first one is.

He's not cleared to hunt humans.

[pulsar holly]

Found out about cartographer being a playable career in Warhammer Fantasy last night

https://tenor.com/view/hndrxxgoingbad-spongebob-idontneedit-thirsty-gif-23335795

[spice flicker]

As well as lawyer among others

[pulsar holly]

Lawyer was a tempting one when I was making my halfling

[past sphinx]

i am no longer allowed to play anything related to law after 2 years of "Dugan at Law"

the finest druid lawyer in all the land

[naive abyss]

lol

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1748899854380593587

ngl this art fucks

[dense sedge]

I wish raven guard, iron hands and white scars got more stuff instead of the basic marine bloat

[naive abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/bdg-brian-david-gilbert-big-mood-mood-gif-15770428

[past sphinx]

god i love double serpentia marines

its that perfect like old school scifi ray gun vibe

[naive abyss]

i think thats plasma not serpenta

[past sphinx]

if its got a backpack hose its usually a serpentia

though i believe serpentia refers to the fact that its backpack fed not that its volkite or plasma

[naive abyss]

i thought that was a moritat?

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Moritat

https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/Legion-Moritat-with-Volkite-Serpenta

[past sphinx]

probably

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/Mp_miniatures/status/1747695578681634851

https://vxtwitter.com/Mp_miniatures/status/1657821173265190914

[bold halo]

oh that's really good colours on the admech

[uneven ember]

preetty

[dense sedge]

Those are amazing conversions

[pulsar cairn]

do necron lords have like a pocket death laser they fan use once in the tabletop?

[thin ibex]

They can, they can bring a tachyon arrow that's single use, str like 14 or 16

[jaunty dawn]

the moritat models just have backpack ammo feeds cause they shoot so much. the pictured model is using plasma pistols, as you can see by the muzzle mainly. Serpenta is simply the name for a volkite pistol; rather than the pistol/gun/cannon that most weapons use, volkite goes serpenta/charger/caliver/culverin

[thin ibex]

It's almost never the most efficient thing to bring, but can be a fun enough gambit in a casual game if you need to scrape off some final wounds

[pulsar cairn]

neat

how does it work? is like an artillery thing? or does it come out of their bodies?

[jaunty dawn]

it's on their forearm

iirc

[bitter mortar]

its a tiny “arrow” of like

compressed time-nonsense

I think it retrocasually deletes whatever you point it at

[jaunty dawn]

wrist mounted

apparently it's just shooting metal at ludicrous speed though

at least as written in 5e codex. could've changed

[thin ibex]

Tachyon Arrows are wrist-mounted energy weapons used by Necrons. When activated, it transmutes a sliver of inert metal into an unstoppable thunderbolt capable of piercing a mountain.[1]

The Single-shot variants are tremendously powerful, capable of firing a projectile at the speed of light which can instantly destroy an Imperial Titan.[2]

I suppose it wouldn't do to give necrons a "one shots anything" on the table

Hand mounted volcano cannon

[pulsar cairn]

that's some absurd lore

[jaunty dawn]

it kinda used to be potentially one shot anything short of a superheavy

cause of vehicle damage and instant death

superheavy or eternal warrior anyway

[past sphinx]

Jesus that's silly

I love it

[topaz elk]

https://youtu.be/a3f3xUQYq-k?si=sNBYL-fp7SVDgBiz

[naive abyss]

I think that thumbnail is ai generated lol

[topaz elk]

Nah

Those are art made for cards to represent the player types used in some MTG articles

Just edited to have 40K books and data sheets instead of magic cards

[long void]

Yeah, the left side art is the Vorthos from Unfinity.

https://scryfall.com/card/unf/126/vorthos-steward-of-myth

[topaz elk]

I can’t find the right side art, it doesn’t seem to be from the same place as the vorthos stuff

But also like, it doesn’t seem AI generated

It could be any rogue trader art that’s been edited to hold a codex instead of any random book

Poorhammer already uses so much official 40K art

[long void]

the popped collar of the right side art is kinda weird though

[topaz elk]

I mean yah but if the AI was gonna mess up anything it would be the fingers

And those are completely normal

[junior robin]

right side is mastermind plum

[topaz elk]

Ahhh there it is

Honestly I thought it was rogue trader art lol

He has that vibe

[junior robin]

part of me is really tempted to get the new tomb king to convert over to vampire counts skeletons

[bright dove]

Doit

I'd be tempted for Ossiarchs

[junior robin]

really wish they could have made them a main faction so krell could be re-cast

[long void]

We'll see in time. They're really digging into the back catalog of the main factions to do Made to Order.

[junior robin]

"But while these are complete lists, there are no plans to release miniatures to use them with – the rules are intended for people who already have armies in their collection." feel rather clear to me we wont see that but hopefully I'm wrong

[pulsar cairn]

i just realized... 3 of the aeldari factions accept everybody basically

[solemn gull]

What do you mean?

[pulsar cairn]

Harlequins, Corsairs and Yvraine's group can be composed by Aeldari from any of the other factions or at least the 3 base ones

[junior robin]

now I imagine exodites trying to teach dark eldar how to farm

[pulsar cairn]

Drukhari are probably the weirdest of the bunch anytime they join up with other kinds of aeldari

[quaint compass]

"It's like torturing the soil until it complies to host parasites (seeds) and eventually give up their souls (produce)."

[junior robin]

also looked into doing a skeleton army in AoS but only one faction have a rule that work on non-vampire heroes

[long void]

That'd be the Ossiarchs?

[pulsar cairn]

vampires are nerds

[long void]

the pdfs of the legacy Old World armies are available btw:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/22/old-world-almanack-download-the-legacy-pdfs-here/

[junior robin]

soulblight gravelords

[bright dove]

Ossiarchs are the real answer

[junior robin]

not much for their astetic I'm afraid

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2907183733 basically want to recreate this

[pastel rampart]

I desperately want that version of Krell.

[tepid stratus]

Yeah soulblight leans hard on wanting vampires leading your armies but at least speaking from experience lists that are 50% or more skeletons are pretty common

[pastel rampart]

Also yeah I wanna recreate that Lichemaster list too.

Maybe not with TOW tho, hah. Possibly Age of Fantasy.

[bright dove]

There's Wight Kings for Gravelords, iirc

[pastel rampart]

Yeah but can they ride a flying chariot?

I think not.

[tepid stratus]

Yup, but Wort's gripe seems to derive from every sub faction having at least some rule that's for vampires specifically. So running all bones does "leave something out" so to speak

But yeah there's mounted and foot wight kings plus the named character Velmorn

[bold halo]

ayyyyyyy politely complaining worked, store I ordered kill team salvation from still hasn't received their stock from GW but they had an early preorder cancelled from another of their locations so it's in the mail babyyyyy

squeaky wheel gets their box first

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/SHeroQueer/status/1749723310596759820

[tepid stratus]

Funny enough for a while it was meta to run a mounted wight king as your geberal in the kastelai sub faction, a sub faction which exclusively buffs vampires, because there's no vampire on horse to run with your blood knights and give out the command trait auras. So he became a discount pick compared to the more expensive vampire on dragon and vengorian lords

[junior robin]

tbh never played AoS so not sure how big difference running a army without a battle trait is

[tepid stratus]

Losing one trait out of the like 5 you get isn't that big of a deal tbh. The bigger concern is losing out on the utility a mixed list provides but that's purely from a meta perspective. You'll still get unquiet dead, endless legions, deathly invocation, deathless minions + whatever your chosen sub faction provides in traits and enhancements that aren't vampire or deadwalker locked

[junior robin]

plan would be vyrkos so gets 1 trait, 2 command and 3 artefacts

[tepid stratus]

Albeit Legion of night and Vyrkos are your best bets for minimal rules loss

Yeah that works, plus gets you access to Halgrim if you care about named characters

[junior robin]

missed that the first legion trait actually worked for the army 🤔

[bright dove]

Legion of Night is pretty good, yeah

[thin ibex]

i think on today's slate are some necron lists, partial to teleporting monoliths

[tepid stratus]

In all honesty if "oops all bones" is your style, bonereapers is the better choice for a mechanically complete experience but if you wanna be the guy that rocks up with only a third of an armies roster and start taking names by all means

[bright dove]

And you can always run the Bonedaddy himself

[long void]

(6th and 7th edition did try to resolve the low points issue with the Warbands guidelines. There are still pdfs floating around)

[tepid stratus]

Unbending will and chiropteran cloak makes for a goofy tarpit leader in Legion of night

[bright dove]

Goofy tarpit leaders are the best

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, and those kinda ruled honestly. Low-points WHFB should've been more valid and common.

[bright dove]

Also, I am so tempted to run a Quakefray army.

Will the objective control be good? Honestly, no

[tepid stratus]

I love nagash but he's a tragedy in rules writing right now. Hes half your armies points because of his 8 casts at +3 but because he has no access to rerolls he has a 1/36 chance of doing nothing for the turn because of a miscast. Miscasting on your first cast of 8 is soul crushing

[bright dove]

Look, the odds of a miscast aren't great

[tepid stratus]

Do it. Quake fray is so good. One of the regulars at my events runs quake fray and it's a great time

[bright dove]

It'll be expensive

[tepid stratus]

But look at those giant cows! Do it for Bessie!

[bright dove]

Indeed

[tepid stratus]

Also like you don't need to go too hard on it, 4 big dudes is more than enough. You can fill with gors, raiders, shamans and bullgors

[bright dove]

A pity there's no good monster leader for Beasts

Gors honestly make me happy

[tepid stratus]

Trust me, you don't need a monster hero when the shamans are destroying world's from off the board edge

[bright dove]

That charge ability is

[tepid stratus]

"are you within 12" of the table edge? Here's d6 mortal wounds, 20 arrows and you move d6" away from that objective you wanted"

[bright dove]

Yeee

"No, you cannot retaliate"

[tepid stratus]

It's also funny that slaanesh can hurt raiders while they're off the table by proccing a temptation off their board edge shooting. The one army that can retaliate does so by offering the ungors in the next zip code some crack

[bright dove]

Honestly, BoC has some juice

[tepid stratus]

In the right hands they are very hard to play against but will fold like paper if the opponent seizes a chance to punish

[bright dove]

Yup

They're not great at defense

But they can thunk good

[tepid stratus]

I've been in games where the beastmen where dominating my vampires but one failed charge and a misplayed shaman later I got a blood buff on my blood knights for +1 damage and just swept from one end of the table to the other because I got to go on the offence as an all vampire soulblight list

[bright dove]

And with things like Cockatrices, Gor charges, and Ghorgons

If you can keep your opponent on the backfoot, you can rock them

[tepid stratus]

Ghorgons are great right now. They fold to shooting but are a great counter meta pick as elite infantry and cavalry are very popular right now which the ghorgons hard counter with their swallow whole ability

[bright dove]

Yuuup

[tepid stratus]

I've lost 3 out of a 5 man bloodknight unit to lucky rolls on swallow before attacks where even rolled

[bright dove]

And Herdstones are my second favorite faction terrain in terms of table impact

First place goes to gnawholes

[tepid stratus]

Well yeah it's kinda hard to beat more rend

Now if only my slaanesh terrain was good

[bright dove]

It makes late game beasts hit outside their point range, it's great

[tepid stratus]

Unfortunately most games don't make it to turns 4 or 5 with beasts because either they table or get tabled by bottom of 3 in a competitive game

[bright dove]

Sounds right

Just from studying armies

[tepid stratus]

You just can't afford the risk of dragging out a game against a tuned up comp list so you gotta cripple them early or die trying

[bright dove]

Which is how Beastmen usually roll

[tepid stratus]

Armies like nurgle, slaanesh or seraphon just explode all over you in the last few turns

[bright dove]

The chaos God dedicated armies seem to be able to pull off explosive late turns, yeah

[tepid stratus]

Tzeentch is the only one that falls off late game outside of caster vs caster matchups

[bright dove]

Yep

[tepid stratus]

Albeit tzeentch is a turn 2-3 army anyways being so reliant on 18" range shooting and casting

With no real screens or tanks

[bright dove]

Is it wrong that I feel unthreatened by Daughters of Khaine?

Their list lacks things that I feel are dangerous to the Beast gameplan

[tepid stratus]

Yes and no. A casual list is no threat, a meta list is gonna make you pucker up if you ain't prepared

[bright dove]

Meta is using things other than the base battlelines, obviously

[tepid stratus]

They're gonna force a huge early game vp disadvantage, punish any failed or misplayed moves hard and morathi HAS to die by top of 3 or it's game over

[bright dove]

Oh yeah, Morathi dies for sure

[tepid stratus]

Snakes become battleline with the ironscale as general. Morathi and the bowsnakes is more than a band name, it's a way of life for DoK players

[bright dove]

Oddly, BoC is well equipped for hero killing

[tepid stratus]

Your problem is morathi has the speed to claim mid table early so your forced to leave the safety of the table edge to kill her

[bright dove]

Yeaaaah

That is the downside

One of the armies that can compare with Beast zoomies

[tepid stratus]

All your tricks that could damage her are wasted on the other snakes, forcing you into an unfair "fair" fight with her

[floral herald]

I like this place it looks terrible

(New season KT setting art)

[bright dove]

Oooo

[tepid stratus]

And she will kill whatever you throw at her, or otherwise be punished by bowsnakes for trying to indirectly damage her with on the table shooting or shamans

[bright dove]

What a cursed locale for Night Lords vs Mandrak÷s

[tepid stratus]

I see KT is going 'Murican with battles over oil rigs

[quaint compass]

BIG CRAB

[pastel rampart]

This is just Caelid smh

[floral herald]

wet caelid

[pastel rampart]

Caelid is pretty wet, what with that awful fucking swamp in the middle.

[floral herald]

Sadly its uhh... not very balanced competitively rn but the theming and look is great

[floral herald]

Yeah that's fair, though it felt pretty arid except for the Awful Swamp

But the weather there is really just "bad"

[bold halo]

crab spotted

[pastel rampart]

Caelid is the worst (why am I spending so much time in there right now am I a glutton for punishment (yes))

[floral herald]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/23/kill-team-how-to-turn-the-tangled-terrain-of-bheta-decima-from-obstacle-to-opportunity/

From here

[floral herald]

Because these rules specifically use the Obscured terminology, they interact normally with any rules that deal with Obscuring – the Incursors of the Phobos Strike Team, for example, can ignore Obscuring entirely. This means that kill teams who rely on long-range firepower will need to protect their spotter operatives or lean more heavily on mechanics that bypass the Obscured rule – such as the Markerlights employed by the Pathfinder kill team.
Hmmm

[thin ibex]

Phobos comeback?

[floral herald]

From what little I've heard, and this might be salt the answer is probably not but that's just because it's apparently the Pathfinder's bheta decima we're just in it

[thin ibex]

oh huh, my bois predictably back on top in a field that favors clear sightlines and ranged firepower

[thin ibex]

First turn plan is to just volley tachyon arrows and doomsday shots

too bad theres no way to spoof more tachyon arrows onto the list

[pulsar holly]

CRABS!

[floral herald]

🦀

[floral herald]

old tweet still funny

https://vxtwitter.com/Ex_Profundis/status/1477684733811347464?s=20

[long void]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doot-doot-skeleton-trumpet-e1m1-gif-25528371

Rocket Launcher Skeleton ^

[dense sedge]

the 'rocket launcher skeletons' are khainites right?

[unreal cosmos]

They're all Khainites

All Aspect Warriors at least

[dense sedge]

honestly, this is one of my favorite models that GW has made

[soft willow]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Reaper

[dense sedge]

right, that's what they're called

[dense sedge]

combat patrol: GSC, Underworlds: Wyrdhollow, Kreutha's Cronehort and Kill team Starter are all things that have been interesting my wallet

[glossy vapor]

do you ever want to be adding warrior units into your list in kill team 2nd? it looks like you usually have more datacards than roster slots, and generally the warrior units seem to be a direct downgrade from most of your units.

[dense sedge]

do we know when the new stuff goes on pre order?

[unreal cosmos]

Combat Patrol GSC is great value

[floral herald]

depends on team - usually no a few can use them a lot

[glossy vapor]

i looked at phobos kill team and infiltrator warriors seemed useless, but maybe rievers are good since the only other riever unit is your leader choice.

[dense sedge]

It's one of the bset for raw value

[floral herald]

A lot of competitive Phobos teams use 2-3 Reiver Warriors yeah

[brittle salmon]

Most Warrior units have some distinction that gives them at least some purpose in a kill team over a named datacard

[floral herald]

I think Minelayer Other Minelayer Commsman 2x Reiver Warrior was really popular for ITD

[brittle salmon]

A lot of Horde warriors have GA 2, Kasrkin warriors generate a free individual Elite point, etc.

[glossy vapor]

i have looked at the hearthkin warriors, pathfinders, and phobos strike team, i dont see that so far. (exception being rievers and thats because their arent any other named rievers in the team)

[floral herald]

Yeah none of those have much reason to prefer warriors

Outside of reivers

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/DiceyJune/status/1749773290267394378

[glossy vapor]

kind of kills build variety for something like the hearthkin or pathfinders if your building amounts mostly to "which 2 of these approx 12 specialists" and then equipment choice.

[brittle salmon]

What do you mean?

[jaunty dawn]

depends on the team

but yeah some teams only need to use roster space for like different gunner options n that

[naive abyss]

i am deeply fascinated to know what this is responding to ngl

[jaunty dawn]

but in general kill team isn't. super interested in build variety necessarily

for something like legionaires or intercession it's there and for others they're just hyperspecialised

chaos cult has no operative options whatsoever while inquistion gets extra roster space specifically cause of how many options they have

which is kinda one of the ways kt21 is more like warhammer underworlds than warcry or traidtional kill team. you're choosing a team, not building a team from a faction usually

options you do have are usually much more balanced and have a niche

[naive abyss]

https://www.tumblr.com/diceyjune/722406194563678208/unnamed-tau-shasui?source=share

[glossy vapor]

it depends on the team a lot which is suprising to me.

like, not counting the infiltrator warrior since their a straight downgrade, you have 3 leaders to choose from, then 5 slots that can be filled with: 7 specialists, and 2 warrior types that can fill your list with incursors or rievers if you want to go all in on those flavors of phobos. but then other teams as you say, have little to no unit choice. I was not expecting that going in, i was anticipating either mostly prebuilt lists or mostly lists with like, 1.5 to 2 times the max squad size worth of choices.

i guess it makes sense from a design standpoint to make teams that appeal to both types of players.

[floral herald]

Yeah there’s some weird extremes

Like Starstriders has 0 roster choices

[thin ibex]

Decided to try and think of what i might run on a guard narrative list

star of the show is the baneblade

but i think it has a little bit of everything

wasn't sure if i wanted to squeeze a catachan squad in

the hope is that the bb is tough enough with the help of the techpriest

to be a big honking target

and still keep trucking/being a rolling fortress

It's got enough guns to fight anything and everything

T13 also means even lascannon equivalents will bounce quite often

[pulsar cairn]

Slaneesh probably likes the night lords i reckon

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZfbLmBfnI8

idk why but seeing the unpainted knights makes me sorta fond of the models? not sure why

[pastel rampart]

They're some of the best pre-CAD sculpts GW ever produced.

[naive abyss]

like they have decent amounts of detail for their age and are just very classic

is i think the core thing for me

[bold halo]

they get carried a lot by just needing to be a vehicle for a bunch of bright blocky colours of heraldry and some funky hats

it works well in the level of detail they were able to produce then

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1749796234838016409

https://vxtwitter.com/gushfield/status/1749867395806843334

[floral herald]

https://youtu.be/n2cEyHvTJOk

It's funny running into this near the end of the death and the end 2

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/RagnarBlack/status/1748686031539360010

https://vxtwitter.com/RagnarBlack/status/1749448774122865131

https://vxtwitter.com/DiceyJune/status/1748650427170914742

https://vxtwitter.com/DiceyJune/status/1741145199169180026

https://vxtwitter.com/gushfield/status/1735869123287261217

https://vxtwitter.com/gushfield/status/1730811290397102480

https://vxtwitter.com/gushfield/status/1730811163385176179

[cloud flicker]

https://youtu.be/22rg3bHqSVc I'm so fucking ready

If you need your Guard/Spacemook dose this is it.

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMuaAMYFDAA

[bold halo]

https://fxtwitter.com/realironhand/status/1749795839818842311?t=L1rt-A75dItDsE9BdCeOMA&s=19

Such a simple thing but damn it's good

[uneven ember]

oh nice

[pastel rampart]

Too bad about the kernel-level DRM packaged with it.

[crisp lance]

https://fxtwitter.com/CelestialFang/status/1749449975572905992

[patent axle]

i like the headcannon that the spacewolves have so much wolf repetition in them because high/low gothic doesnt have the words that they use in fenrysian for their stuff

[soft willow]

Which is weird because there are no wolves on Fenris.

[tired cairn]

Maybe it's the other way around. They were so tired of using the word "wolf" for something, that decided to make up new words for it to be less boring

[floral herald]

I think my favorite interpretation of that line is that Magnus is calling the space wolves dogs slavishly loyal to the emperor and not wolves at all

Though there's other stuff which indicates that the canis helix is more of a thing

[brittle salmon]

This is very late, but this is due to the Starstriders being a fixed KT 1e team brought forward to 2e

[floral herald]

Oh I didn't realize they were in KT1

I just assumed its because of how fixed they were in Blackstone Fortress

[brittle salmon]

Yeah, them and the Gellarpox were part of a box

[tired cairn]

That's a very sensible combination

[floral herald]

I'm now realizing that the Startstriders models were not ever in Blackstone Fortress

This was the rogue trader in it lol

wait a sec

https://tenor.com/view/skeptical-futurama-fry-hmmm-i-got-my-eyes-on-you-gif-17101711

I know this Darktide cosmetic

[brittle salmon]

I kinda want to play Corsairs in KT2

They seem really solid

[floral herald]

yoo these could all be in darktide

[brittle salmon]

These are ballin

[floral herald]

yeah there's some banger sculpts in blackstone fortress

Which I had apparently not looked at hard enough

[modern tiger]

PLEASE give me a tech priest class or tree branch holy shit I would play the game again so fast

[brittle salmon]

Did you quit?

[compact gate]

i wish they kept daedalosus as a named character tbh

technoarcheologist is cool and all

but damn does knowing the only admech character on tabletop exists to make more marines sting

[pulsar cairn]

pinging u to say u have great taste

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538127722946600.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

[unreal cosmos]

The model preview got me thinking, it would be fun to angle an army as "Kroot with T'au allies" rather than the other way around

Maybe even have renegade fire caste who decided to join the mercenary business

[naive abyss]

Tbh the fact all kroot is becoming a thing is making me crave a xenos merc dex again lol

[jaunty dawn]

that's my plan! kinda!

kroot with tau stealth suits

someone in the riposte server made the tau/cia kroot/blackwater comparison haha

I mean it's still like tau led probably but in the field it's meant to look like an organic kroot presence. definitely no empire involvement here no siree

wanna do the classic dark maroon suits

[solemn gull]

What are the mercenary DEldar snake people?

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/s/DyAcphdrTr

[thin ibex]

We know I'm gonna make a list for this xD

[naive abyss]

The one red eye is inspired Ngl

[jaunty dawn]

wanna say sslyth?

ha nice I was right

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/3Gt5wX4PQv4?si=XdzVRHKZVDtDWehQ

I really like how he's doing nmm here

[thin ibex]

DA dont have none deathwing termies right? all termies are deatjwomg ,e,ners

[naive abyss]

Are you asking in terms of fluff or rules?

[thin ibex]

fluff

[naive abyss]

Yeah it's all deathwing I think

[past sphinx]

the deathwing IS the terminators

i dont think DA even have a proper 1st company

[bright dove]

The Deathwing is basically the 1st company iirc

[naive abyss]

Basically yeah

[rocky shale]

They all also have legends rules and make pretty good proxies

[pastel rampart]

Theoretically DW/1st company can operate out of terminator armor.

They just, y'know. Don't.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/b/bd/DeathwingOrg.jpg

Ravenwing are also 1st company.

[bright dove]

Because if you have enough suits to outfit your entire 1st company, why wouldn't you?

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

Things get a little funky with Primaris, since Bladeguard Vets are part of the 1st company now.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/cd/Deathwing2nd.jpg

Love the old termie designs.

[naive abyss]

I thought they were 2nd?

[pastel rampart]

Technically yes, but master of the ravenwing sits above the deathwing on the organizational chart and the RW know as much of the fallen as the DW.

They both sit above the other companies and functionally know the same amount of info, so I think they only say 2nd company as to not get more inquisition eyes on them.

(well, the vets know about the fallen, anyway)

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

that's kinda the difference

deathwing is 100 inducted members

ravenwing is inducted members plus 100 non inducted marines

[pastel rampart]

Yeah. RW vets are part of the inner circle which is like...more or less 1st company status?

[jaunty dawn]

apparently

yeah

[pastel rampart]

Master of the Ravenwing definitely is, he's basically grand master status.

[jaunty dawn]

which probably contributes to the deathwing being terminator specialised thing cause it's like if you're inner circle and are better at doing non terminator things you just don't serve in the deathwing

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

[jaunty dawn]

or not inner circle. inducted

[pastel rampart]

Not that you couldn't put on some termie armor if it came down to it, if you're part of the inner circle you're a hard-ass motherfucker, but if you're better at doing sick donuts on heretic faces then you stick with the bike.

[jaunty dawn]

but I think company leadership in general is inducted and captains inner circle

[pastel rampart]

Probably, yeah

[jaunty dawn]

plenty of room outside deathwing

super stealthy vets in 10th company

[pastel rampart]

Hey if bladeguard can be inner circle, why not scouts

[jaunty dawn]

bladeguard are weird

I mean they do exist

but I also understand ppl who aren't into bone bladeguard haha

anyway imagine being a dark angel techmarine

you're just the guy who's never invited to any parties

[naive abyss]

Lol

[jaunty dawn]

da techmarine who gets called to deathwatch and finds out that usually techmarines are an indispensable part of chapter command and the rest of the team doesn't usually talk behind their back

[naive abyss]

https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/demo-collection/products/les-grognards-cavalry

[past sphinx]

Bruv you gotta just swing on it

go deep

the french have already infiltrated your heart

[pastel rampart]

Annoying that it's 9 to a box and not 10.

[naive abyss]

?

[naive abyss]

A bit odd yeah

[pastel rampart]

You can get a box of 18 of those horses without any rider tho, so there's that I guess.

[tired cairn]

GW, when balance slate

[cinder wraith]

looks at handsaw "Later"

[soft willow]

Rumor is Thursday.

But also whenever James Workshop decides the stars are right.

[floral herald]

Mildly worried for my CSM they’ve been solidly 1 tier below top tier for a while

Maybe it’ll save the DA too

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/eZtLPSx3wZM?si=dWGehgZQwglZogP8

[tired cairn]

Is the DA codex out?

[floral herald]

I’m deleting this cause flickering gifs are hard to watch

[tired cairn]

I can't imagine major changes given how recent it is/will be coming out

It's the AdMech/Necron issue for the last one

[jaunty dawn]

I forgot they even got codexes

[floral herald]

It’s been sort of mixed for them aiui

Necrons got a really strong competitive detachment though

Necrons took the LVO with it

[tired cairn]

AdMech are doing decent in tournaments aiui. People just don't like the internal balance or feel

[floral herald]

Hypercrypt Legion

Yeah

That’s what I’ve heard as well

[tired cairn]

Grey Necrons

Necron Knights?

Though unfortunately "feels bad" is going to be really hard to fix

[jaunty dawn]

who's likely to get help then

[floral herald]

The balance data slates are the ones which adjust rules and not just points right?

Or am I mixed up

[tepid stratus]

Both AOS and 40k are overdue for their balance patches

Kinda wild how long they're waiting to drop them

[tired cairn]

It's a rules update

Plus points

[tepid stratus]

Maybe I'll finally rotate my CSM for my custodes after this one

[jaunty dawn]

aren't they only doing a rules update twice a year this time though

[tired cairn]

But I think they won't want to drastically change things

So far they haven't kept to schedule, but I think so?

[jaunty dawn]

mm

schedule schmedule

[floral herald]

https://www.tabletoparchive.com/blog/lennycraft-it-necrons-win-las-vegas-open-wednesdays-winning-40k-lists

LVO lists

Lmfao

[tired cairn]

lmao

Is it a horde list?

[jaunty dawn]

neurogaunts mentioned :O

[floral herald]

153 models at 2k points lol

There’s like 120 termagants

[tired cairn]

It even has more names lmao

[soft willow]

It's not just a horde, it's one of the bigger hordes you can field.

[tepid stratus]

Me and a buddy are planning on going to a doubles tournament together, he's bringing 120 guants and a winged prime... That's his whole list. I'm running 2 venomcrawlers, hellbrute, termie squad and a chosen squad. This'll be interesting

[tired cairn]

Hey, they could have taken 120 hormagaunts too

[thin ibex]

i feel like custodes will get some balance slate help

[tepid stratus]

I just want my jetbikes to be playable again

[thin ibex]

think youll get some rules changes or just points adjustments?>

also what makes em unplayable? I just thought they were on the bottom line of playable and very noncompetetive

[pastel rampart]

Oh my god how long did the 'nid turns go for

[tepid stratus]

Allarus are fine where they are, maybe drop points on the regular guardian armoured units a bit and away you go

[floral herald]

Combination of big nerfs to their faction rule and some game systems they interacted with iirc, since they were super meta earlier

[thin ibex]

mm

i like to include them in my thematic custodes lists just cause they're cool