Warhammer and Such

[thin ibex]

but i think in general most factions are capable of facing them

i don't think your average hearthkyn warrior is a match for a space marine, for example, despite being elite by other faction standards

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

like I think would buy they're good at picking fights they'll win and will give ground rather than fight an almost hopeless cause. but I feel like if they get jumped they're not that much better than other factions

and giving ground is its own disadvantage

[thin ibex]

incidentally, I often feel like aeldari, narratively, have to win 99% of their fights for their doomed nature to make any sense

[jaunty dawn]

I think bolters are probably just to tie it to squats tbh

[thin ibex]

otherwise, losing loads of aeldari citizens in each engagement would be kinda catastrophic

that and their willingness to sacrifice millions of another race to have a single aeldari live also seems to communicate to me that aeldari generally fight battles they'll win

[ebon forge]

I love Mike Brooks and his Orks so fucking much

[naive abyss]

I like it

It fits the whole dorf have similar things to human but better thing

[jaunty dawn]

like squats had bolters and exo-armour, so given the quite ambitious redesign the fact that it's still ultimately bolters and exo-armour gives a throughline

[thin ibex]

maybe the votann can gift the emperor or Guilliman the Warhammer Mark 40000 after being rescued from an orkish Waaagh!!!

alternatively, 40,000 concussion hammers given to the imperium for the war effort

i think pioners or thunderkyn are my favorite votan units

[naive abyss]

If that was the case they'd use lasguns lol

[thin ibex]

honestly i struggle to come up with lots of votann army list ideas sadly

usually its just bunch of guys in transports

[junior robin]

same here, hope they get some more units this year

[floral herald]

This is pretty much what you do

[thin ibex]

yeah, i just want to explore more concepts xD

the einherjar or whatever the armor is called big blocks is another way

but also i don't find it super duper intereting

to max out 3 units of deepstriking not-terminators

i forget, how does that match up usually go

the TEQ's duking it out

[floral herald]

what match up?

[thin ibex]

einhyr vs terminators

both on the table and narratively

[naive abyss]

I don't we have much fluff on that match up

Theoretically einh have better weapons at least in fluff

[floral herald]

On the table I think termies win out

[thin ibex]

plasma and volkanite weapons alongside a grenade launcher; then plasma or concussive melee yeah

[floral herald]

They've got more wounds and an inv save

And usually armies with termies have more hardcore melee strategems than lov

[jaunty dawn]

terminators are either power fist, lightning claws or thunder hammer usually

[thin ibex]

i imagine TH/SS termies will rinse einhyr in a fight

[jaunty dawn]

which are in the like. higher tier of power weapons

[floral herald]

This is also what you'd expect for 30 ppm models vs 39 ppm models in a more melee oriented army

for chaos termies at least

[thin ibex]

i imagine having better weapons is influential, but not a deciding factor

since like... aeldar have had better weapons for forever

[naive abyss]

I mean so are the einh weapons

And they also can have squad wide plasma

[thin ibex]

my understanding of the fluff broadly places a terminator, with their requisite skill and experience alongside the suit, as somewhere between 1 full step above or slightly ahead of an einhyr

[jaunty dawn]

yeah loyalist terminators are bad in a shoot out

[naive abyss]

Termie armor is more durable though I'd say

[naive abyss]

Einh are also very experienced it should be noted

Like you have to earn being a hearthguard

They're like the only permanent standing military lol

[jaunty dawn]

I wonder if we'll get votann light infantry

[naive abyss]

Like the termies main advantages are more durable armor imo

[alpine quarry]

dont see the logic here

[jaunty dawn]

I guess that's just pioneers on foot

but yeah I think that would be cool

[naive abyss]

I suspect well get rangers yeah

I just am hoping for axe and shield warriors lol

[alpine quarry]

like half the factions in the settin are more advanced then them technologically, if thats whats being measured

[jaunty dawn]

get some of that quilted armour back in

[naive abyss]

I mean no

There's two

Eldar and crons

[alpine quarry]

Aeldari are 2 factions, Necrons, I would say that tau are mostly the same tho, no?

[naive abyss]

No

[alpine quarry]

Noted

[thin ibex]

ooo votann light infantry seems sick

[naive abyss]

They literally sold tau ion tech

[thin ibex]

something to pair with pioneers

[alpine quarry]

yea but the whole tau gimmick s that they actually develop tech fast, and that was some time ago

pretty early into tau empire actually irc

[naive abyss]

And have actual ai and weird black hole axes

[thin ibex]

Tau have comparable tech of their own in various sectors, but yeah, the votann traded ion tech that you see quite commonly

[floral herald]

Every time I look at chaos termie wargear I understand chaos better

[thin ibex]

The thing about the tau is that they rapidly improve technology. Votann steadily improve technology

[naive abyss]

Like plasma axes alone would blow an earth castes mind lol

[alpine quarry]

Thats true, yea

Yea, i overstated a lot by saying "half"

[naive abyss]

To say nothing of their weird psychic tech

[pulsar holly]

Well they do have smaller ships and crafts they can use to board and get away. Depends on the kind of mission, boarding situation, or space. I know the issue in Salvation’s Reach was that they didn’t have enough space to land all of one attack force at one time so they had to get a lot of the craft to take back off to allow for others to land more troops. Made retreating a difficult situation later

[thin ibex]

I think plasma axes would blow an earth castes mind because they would ask why a faction so advanced still uses melee combat

[naive abyss]

I mean tau have a prototype

[alpine quarry]

But I still dont see why would lov "win every single engagement outside of plot", coming back to what i referred to

[thin ibex]

yeah i dont think they would either

[naive abyss]

And also they have no tech that shapes emitted energy

I mean I'm not arguing that

[thin ibex]

heck they've canonically lost to orks, nids, and chaos historically; as far as what i remember from their history

[floral herald]

yeah the Tau rate of advancement is extremely high

[naive abyss]

Like they've lost plenty

[thin ibex]

oh and necrons

[alpine quarry]

isnt there a new necron book thats-

Mhm

xd

[thin ibex]

xD

[naive abyss]

Granted the cron book is also weirdly written

[thin ibex]

Necrons currently remain the most advanced race in the setting, technologically, as I understand it

[naive abyss]

But yeah I was just refuting the tech level thing

[alpine quarry]

i think the funniest part about it is that they canonically still develop new tech

[naive abyss]

You can debate them or eldar

[jaunty dawn]

I wish ion weapons had a better gimmick

[tired cairn]

Good for them, honestly

[thin ibex]

i do wis hion weren't just plasma but not

[pulsar holly]

Necrons fleeing an Imperial fleet

[thin ibex]

but i dont know what their gimmick would be though

[jaunty dawn]

they're just plasma guns but for the faction that doesn't have overheating plasma guns

or wait did technically plasma steal ion's gimmick in 8th edition 🤔

[naive abyss]

Well I mean lov have those

[thin ibex]

Iirc, the scariest part about necrons isn't something commonly featured in the table, which is that their space fleets are scary as fuck for everyone

[alpine quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/marge-i-just-think-theyre-neat-the-simpsons-neat-potato-gif-8549864

[naive abyss]

Non overheat plasma that is

[thin ibex]

iirc an early record had a necron capital ship make a mockery of an imperial battlefleet

[floral herald]

Yeah they had really goofy BFG rules for them

[alpine quarry]

I really need to stop pinging people when I reply, so please tell me if I forget accidentally
I always think about it after i send the message and know that a lot of people dont like it

[floral herald]

But they have by far the scariest fleet in 40k

[jaunty dawn]

yeah that's what I mean

tau and now votann had a thing where their plasma weapons are stable

[alpine quarry]

irc their current spacefleet lore is mostly in battlefleet videogame, right?

[jaunty dawn]

and then ion weapons were retconned into weapons that overcharge when they brought out ion rifles for pathfinders

[tired cairn]

I have so reflexively been turning it off that I sometimes forget to leave it on for people who are ok with it lol

[alpine quarry]

since tabletop battlefleet was very old when it stopped getting updates

[floral herald]

It's mostly from the bfg tabletop game, though the video game cleaves pretty close to it

[alpine quarry]

Necrons there mostly focused on harvester ships
I guess those were reintroduced into the lore with the pariah nexus

[floral herald]

There is, iirc, not a ton of new lore in the video games

[thin ibex]

the black templar's attack on imotekh's flagship and subsequent victory is a very understated achievement tbh

[floral herald]

Black Templars the setting's biggest inverse-jobbers

[tired cairn]

Necrons don't use shields? How borg like

[floral herald]

Their ability to clown on insanely powerful people provided they're just a little bit offscreen is unparalleled

[thin ibex]

thats fair

[jaunty dawn]

they also had thing where the overcharge version was aoe and the regular rapid fire which is how plasma cannons work in necromunda 🤔

[thin ibex]

though they also had plot power due to imotekh/helbrecht beef

What would the ion gun gimmick be if not totally-not-plasma?

blast weapon?

lethal hits or devastating wounds weapon? with good AP?

[jaunty dawn]

well that's the thing is that plasma weapons kinda stole ion's gimmick

now that I think about it

but then ion weapons stole plasmas gimmick from before?

it's all a mess

[thin ibex]

its also a bit funny that tau plasma is a stable tech for them, but ion is not

[jaunty dawn]

just think of more gimmicks gw

[floral herald]

The Black Templars killing the Cacodominus is another "dude what the heck" showing from them

[thin ibex]

Incidentally, I really dislike the idea of tau being ok with "hazardous" weapons at all

they'd prefer a more consistent and less self threatening weapon imo

even if it were weaker

like their pulse rifles

which are plasma weapons

i know its a mechanical concern

but still

[jaunty dawn]

I think the justification is basically that they're so devoted to the cause they're willing to use weapons that give them cancer

[tired cairn]

Wait, when did Plasma's gimmick change?

[jaunty dawn]

I'm pretty sure like originally plasmas had overcharge

[tired cairn]

Did it not always explode?

[jaunty dawn]

or chaos got stronger plasma but exploding or something?

[thin ibex]

iirc originally plasma didn't have 2 modes, and always was deadly

[floral herald]

how... originally are we talking?

[thin ibex]

gets hot was just a thing

and you could die

[jaunty dawn]

but then plasma became one mode and the gimmick was exploding

[floral herald]

I vaguely remember RT and 2e having different rules for plasma

But I think that involved extra consequences on the salvo die

[thin ibex]

orkish plasma is the closest to OG plasma

[jaunty dawn]

and then in 8th edition they become two modes and only explode on overcharge

[tired cairn]

Oh, interesting. I am sure the guardsmen are happy there is a safer mode now

[thin ibex]

oh i mean megablasta

[naive abyss]

I mean same with lov if not more so lol

[tired cairn]

Did Ion rifles always have the two modes thing?

[thin ibex]

classic plasma meme

[tired cairn]

I love that model

[thin ibex]

totally agree, though for the votann it IS safe lol, their ion blasters n stuff have no hazardous setting

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah ion cannons were safe

[thin ibex]

i dont think the votann have any hazardous tag weapons do they?

[jaunty dawn]

ion rifles have always had two modes because that's when ion weapons were given the gimmick

but tbf the safe ion cannon mode stayed the same so its like

tau figured out you could overcharge it and make it dangerous and give you cancer for big boom

[naive abyss]

I don't think so

[jaunty dawn]

and the leagues are like why are you doing this what the fuck

[floral herald]

They have one - the focused witchfire for the Grimnyr

[naive abyss]

Cuz they vet their tech for like a century first lol

[thin ibex]

I know ion cycler spam is the tau meta, but im a burst cannon lover

[jaunty dawn]

just make it into a laser dude

[thin ibex]

ohh only the grymnyr can accidentally kill themselves

[jaunty dawn]

that's to represent perils of the warp yeah

[naive abyss]

Tbh that fits

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[naive abyss]

Like the tau have a desperate vibe to their tech imo

[thin ibex]

I imagine most factions who see their tech adapted by tau would be like "Yo wtf?"

[naive abyss]

It's why they deploy prototypes constantly

[thin ibex]

gonna get a Gauss Lightning weapon mounted on a crisis soon

[jaunty dawn]

it does kinda work but then at the same time it's like okay then why didn't you use full power plasma from the beginning

[thin ibex]

thats i think my conflict with it

[naive abyss]

Cheaper and faster to produce

[jaunty dawn]

but then now their plasma rifles are not only safe but they're more powerful I think??

[thin ibex]

sure they know the dangers of plasma enough to know they could just be unsafe with that

[naive abyss]

Is my fluff answer guess

[floral herald]

The original lore for it was that the Tau just didn't turn their plasma up to the cook setting

[jaunty dawn]

they got buffed in 9e but it might've been reversed

[floral herald]

While everyone else was like "no I want +1 strength and risk of death"

[thin ibex]

yeah, thats my basis for disliking them going deep on overcharging ion

[floral herald]

(Except Eldar, who also had gets hotless plasma)

[thin ibex]

"Haha, plasma is dangerous, better be safe about it. But Ions? We getting cancerburned by ions today amirite?"

[upper canopy]

This is incorrect btw, they have Hardlight and deploy it en masse.

[floral herald]

(And DE I think, but their plasma had even weirder names so I don't remember what it was)

So I guess the gets hot fellas were mostly the Imperium, Chaos, and Orks

[alpine quarry]

I really like plasma in current killteam tbh

But it also feels like often teams cant do anything without it in certain matchups, at least from my observations of the game

[thin ibex]

plasma is so scary in KT

cyan's plasma guy was deadly

[alpine quarry]

I watched kasrkin vs phobos and it was kinda like

[thin ibex]

but not as deadly as his heavy bolter guy

[alpine quarry]

the moment plasmaguy died

it was a stomp

[naive abyss]

Right I forget that's a thing. I think we've had one model that was like a fortification use it lol

[thin ibex]

his heavy bolter guy just CHEWED UP my kroot

[floral herald]

Kasrkin's thing is kinda bullshit plasma

[alpine quarry]

true

[floral herald]

also the shield generators

Though kasrkin can take a bunch of special weapons

[jaunty dawn]

tau plasma rn is basically overcharged profile but not rapid fire or hazardous

so I guess they just figured out how to fire full shots safely at the cost of fire rate

[naive abyss]

Are their shields also hard light?

[jaunty dawn]

I like how tau weapon retcons are like oh they just developed the technology

[thin ibex]

well their basic pulse weaponry is all plasma

[ebon forge]

Didn't they got kinda retconned into the Vottann having a finger on it?

[thin ibex]

like the pulse rifle and carbine are both plasma based

[floral herald]

I thought pulse stuff was like ME style electromagnetic small projectiles

[jaunty dawn]

unlike melta guns being suddenly ineffective against the tanks they were built to destroy

[alpine quarry]

if you mean ions, no

[naive abyss]

The original ion tech was sold to them yes

[alpine quarry]

the retcon there was that the guys that sold the tech were actually votanns and not a separate thing

[ebon forge]

THE DIALITY OF LORE

oh right

[jaunty dawn]

arguably a reveal and not a retcon

[naive abyss]

Lol yeah

[alpine quarry]

mhm

[thin ibex]

Nah its explicitly a plasma pulse weapon

[floral herald]

lexi seems to disagree, I think I was thinking of modernized kroot rifles

[jaunty dawn]

mm

pulse weapons are legit too

[floral herald]

Which IIRC use a plasma cartridge instead of black powder but still fire metal

[jaunty dawn]

like tau's lasgun equivalent economically is better than a bolter

[naive abyss]

Fucking pulselock

[thin ibex]

The Tau version of Plasma Weapon are known as Pulse Weapons. all pulse weapons utilise pulsed induction fields to propel lethal bursts of plasma over astonishing ranges. Tau pulse weapons are more reliable than their Imperial counterparts.

Pulse Pistol
Pulse Rifle
Pulse Carbine
Pulse Blaster
Burst Cannon
Heavy Burst Cannon
Plasma Rifle
Tau Plasma Cannon
Pulse Bomb Generator
Pulse Submunition Cannon
Pulse Ordnance Multi-Driver
Pulse Driver Cannon
Pulse ARC Cannon
Plasma Bomb

[naive abyss]

Sorry the thought just entered my brain

[jaunty dawn]

which is basically like the real technological threat of the tau is that like

they're mainly limited by their economy

they use the resources they do have very well

[thin ibex]

Tau also have fewer institutionalized resistances or barriers to ingesting new technology and riffing off of it very quickly

comparative to almost every other faction in the setting

[jaunty dawn]

but yeah I guess now that plasma rifles are safe but full power albeit slower it does all fit together

[alpine quarry]

i think they have the easiest time with it actually outside of like nids

[jaunty dawn]

cause you got rapid fire safe or heavy safe and then you've just got maniacs overcharging their christmas present

[naive abyss]

Lov can do it fine

[alpine quarry]

oh right i forgot they exist again

[naive abyss]

They just have a long refinement process

[alpine quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-eto-bleh-anime-bleh-gif-26784876

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[upper canopy]

I swear I did this in this channel at some point with someone else

[jaunty dawn]

while tau will deploy new technology out the door of the lab that made it if needed

[naive abyss]

Yeah

[thin ibex]

Votann are much more considered and deliberate with their approach to ingesting to new tech (which i would consider a barrier wrt to my original statement)

[naive abyss]

They're the desperate bleeding edge

[thin ibex]

the votann way is immensely safer

but it also means its slower

[naive abyss]

The lov are dorfs

Which means you have to pass ohsha

[thin ibex]

The tau are like "We can test an idea today, right now even. Take this. Go test it out"

and the person is like "I will test this cancergun for the greater good"

[jaunty dawn]

tauperture science

[alpine quarry]

Btw was there any elaboration on greater good in the warp thing?

[thin ibex]

not much, its a comparatively recent development

[alpine quarry]

Isnt it like 2 years old?

[upper canopy]

It's never come up again

if that's what you're asking

[thin ibex]

2 years old for warhammer lore is new

[naive abyss]

Lov be like "have you accounted for the sub molecularly miniscule kick this gun has? No? Go fix it then"

[naive abyss]

She has a namelol

[floral herald]

They're also traditionalists and really serious about efficiency and such

[alpine quarry]

to be completely fair crypteks and orks also have similar attitude, they just use artisan approach instead of mass producing prototypes

[jaunty dawn]

primaris are still recent in my mind and they're like 7 years old or something

[alpine quarry]

i do not remembe it

[thin ibex]

I don't think crypteks really ingest new tech, rather they are inventing new tech themselves

as they have possibly the most advanced tech foundation out there

[alpine quarry]

they kinda just do stuff

[jaunty dawn]

they already figured it out

[floral herald]

aiui necrons "invent" new tech all the time because they just know profound operating principles

So its a sort of uhh

Rick style invention

Where they just make novel shit every day

But its not like new new

[jaunty dawn]

yeah and like

[naive abyss]

"Teehee found a new application for timey wimey"

[jaunty dawn]

necrodermis and stuff is pretty rapid arbitrary manufacture I suppose

[alpine quarry]

Thats why i said its more or less similar to how orks invent stuff

[jaunty dawn]

a cryptek can be like oh I need to combine these two concepts and then do it right there

[thin ibex]

Tau definitely feel the pressure i think, to advance fast, as they encounter more and more of the galaxies threats and understand that their only defense is their advanced technology and their diplomatic ties

[floral herald]

yeah I agree

[alpine quarry]

which ngl the more i think about it sounds kinda funny

[pulsar cairn]

ork is clever

[jaunty dawn]

mekboyz have to get recruit spannas to stop someone driving off in their newest prototype before it's finished

but at the same time idk how much orks really learn?

[pulsar cairn]

only if it is a car

[jaunty dawn]

a mekboy is basically an stc come to think of it

contains designs for everything you need and can build it if provided enough raw material

[pulsar cairn]

much like space orangutan

[alpine quarry]

one-ork manufactorum

[pulsar cairn]

ya think a mekboy would keep one as a pet?

just tell em is a hairy squig

[floral herald]

Orks do I think have a lot of innate knowledge but they also learn and gain expertise and stuff

So the really good meks can still distinguish themselves

[pulsar cairn]

isn't there a famous mekboy working for Gaz?

[floral herald]

There is

mysterious fella

[pulsar cairn]

nice jaw

[thin ibex]

Orks also kinda do that thing where they are often below the tech par and then sometimes far exceed it

[jaunty dawn]

I love it when mekboyz go apeshit

like in the ork imperial armour book

[pulsar cairn]

no ape emote to go with that quote

[jaunty dawn]

I think it like adds a ton of horror to the orks

[ebon forge]

Might be a T'au...

[jaunty dawn]

cause they're kinda silly and then its like oh they're crashing the moon into us holy shit

[alpine quarry]

thats kinda the thing with "genetic" knowledge of things that they have

[thin ibex]

You know, thinking about it, how does an einhyr stand up to a meganob?

[upper canopy]

I'm like

90% sure Orkimedes is the one getting a new model

[ebon forge]

Brutal Kunnin'

[thin ibex]

His name being orkimedes is great

[alpine quarry]

orkimedes....

[jaunty dawn]

no it's like

[floral herald]

I'd be super down for an Orkimedes model

[jaunty dawn]

idk it's got raven guard and elysians in it

[floral herald]

It's got the most forgettable name

Raid on Kastorel-Novem

[jaunty dawn]

I couldn't remember it because it is super uninspiring

yeah

[ebon forge]

The great thinker Orkimedes once said:

"Thinkin’ iz for gitz, but everyone'z a git,

so's ya might as well think like some other gitz"

...which has come, through the years, to mean the ork klanz.

[jaunty dawn]

the first three are so solid. Taros Campaign. Anphelion Project. Siege of Vraks

[floral herald]

Raid on Kastorel-Novem is also interesting cause its one of the rare ones which is just an L for the imperium

[jaunty dawn]

yeah I think that's a big part of why I have that impression too

[floral herald]

Took heavy casualties and barely completed any of their goals

[jaunty dawn]

super menacing

similar vibes to the big bot from nier automata

[floral herald]

The IA ork aesthetic is

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah, and they were at one point trying to figure out where Orkimedes was based out of tellyporting reinforcements to Armageddon

It was the Hunt for Red Orktoba

[thin ibex]

What was maygen ras craftworld again?

Altansar?

[floral herald]

Altansar yeah

Altansar is also kind of neat now cause they're one of the major power bases for the Ynnari

[thin ibex]

that kinda of makes a lot of sense

i know jainzar is effectively the poster phoenix for the ynnari

but i imagine Maugen is pretty jazzed about the aeldari super death cult

[floral herald]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_Zone_Laevenir

Ok this is unexpectedly cool

Thinking about that Eldar expansion for W&G...

[thin ibex]

im guessing biel tan has a LOT of sway when a warhost is gathered

or a coalition is made

[jaunty dawn]

still upset that the visarch isn't even a real drukhari

[floral herald]

I think it'd be kind of weird if all the Ynnari leadership was DE

[jaunty dawn]

isn't yvraine a craftworlder too

they just both lived on commoragh for a bit

[ebon forge]

Oh yeah, Baneblade , is a knight book, right?

[jaunty dawn]

I guess if it's like

as a pair they've walked the many paths of eldar life that makes sense

[jaunty dawn]

sjust not what I get from looking at the models I guess

[floral herald]

Yvraine straight up joined but Visarch just showed up to bail her out

[jaunty dawn]

fair

[thin ibex]

I think the idea with Yvraine and the Visarch is that they both are not solely claimed by craftworld or Cammorragh

[floral herald]

And incidentally wound up in charge of an Incubi shrine on the way

[jaunty dawn]

I think I just like came back into the hobby, heard there's a new craftworld-drukhari alliance faction, look at the models and see an eldar lady and an incubus with a sword and I'm like oh my god its romeo and juliet

but that does make sense yeah

[thin ibex]

im not sure how much work 30 dark reapers can actually do

but they seem like they'd tear up anything that isn't armor

[jaunty dawn]

I do think it's still a bit weird that there's not like a commoragh native character but I guess idk how many eldar aren't just super old anyway

[runic swallow]

I forget, was the Visarch a guy who just had Long Eldar Pining Love stuff for Yvraine, or was he some other Secret Backstory?

[jaunty dawn]

not really big into eldar

[runic swallow]

I remember him having a Secret Backstory

[thin ibex]

nah i think he was just down bad so hard it pulled him off the path of the exarch

[jaunty dawn]

path of the down bad

[weary dragon]

path of the simp

[bright dove]

Dark Reapers can absolutely tear anything that isn't a vehicle to shreds.

[jaunty dawn]

that really is down bad though damn. not many ex-exarchs

ex-archs

[bright dove]

And for vehicles, there's the Fire Dragons.

[floral herald]

fragons seem pretty bad in 10e

mostly just because meltas seem iffy

the fire pike is nice so maybe you can msu them

[thin ibex]

they get much better with access to rerolls

thus the falcons

[floral herald]

oh yeah I can see that

[thin ibex]

the storm guardians are ultimatly distractions

even the wraithblades are

big juicy targets

to give the reapers time to keep eradicating stuff

[bright dove]

Eldar doing their impression of Ork Warfare

Which is DAKKA

[thin ibex]

the main hope would be to try and erase any high octane elite infantry super early

to try and leave a raggedy hole in their battle plan

you can see my Tau strategy dna leaking into things

Classic "take away their toys" strats

[pulsar holly]

Huh, Goddess T'au'va featured heavily in the somewhat recent Tau novel

She's the whole reason ||they managed to survive a Deathguard incursion into the Nem'yar Atoll||

[upper canopy]

Oh

Didn't hear about this

[ebon forge]

Damn humans , making gods for other xenos

[pulsar holly]

Funny thing about that ||It's not concretely confirmed that the humans of the Tau Empire are responsible for her existence. She showed up during Shadowsun's youth, which would have been before the Fourth Sphere's first encounter with her||

[thin ibex]

one thing against the idea of pre-existence and so on, is that time in the warp is fucky

[ebon forge]

Yeah, Slaneesh helped her own birth, after all

[thin ibex]

the tau allies who were not even around yet could easily have created the t'au'va

[pulsar holly]

I don't think the humans alone are responsible for her being born.

[thin ibex]

which then retroactively gave the t'au'va access to the circular time scale

no i think it was a collection of psychically present tau allies

but not the tau specifically

because they are not psychically active enough

[pulsar holly]

Considering she does look like a Tau too. It's very possible the Tau were involved in her creation too, even if they're not aware of it.

[thin ibex]

i wouldn't necessarily attribute the appearance to indicate who was involved in their creation; noting that it could just as easily have tau features because those allies themselves tie the tau species to their internal concept of the greater good

[pulsar holly]

I'd say fair, but quite frankly I think it's a load of crap if it turns out the Tau really did not have a part in her creation.

[naive abyss]

I mean Idk why? The tau have a really notable lack of psychic presence

Like they can just go in the warp and it seemingly just didn't register for them

[pulsar holly]

Either way, I like this development. Just hoping the remnants of the Fourth Sphere chill the fuck out eventually since they got severely reprimanded for their behavior. (Well I say severely, they're still functioning but their leadership got punished, and some sent away for re-assimilation. And all auxillaries removed from their forces)

[naive abyss]

I mean they aren't there anymore

Like all of the original 4th sphere was sent back to the core for like reeducation

Or at least those going murder happy

[pulsar holly]

They are ._. Like I'm looking right at their info, Fourth Sphere contingents are still a thing. They were involved in a Kroot uprising, and their actions there resulted in all the auxillaries being removed from their contigents.

Like specifically they were involved in massacring the Kroot colony on Ky'san, which caused an uprising. And the only thing the Ethereal Council did was remove the auxilliaries from their contigents.

[solemn gull]

Yikes but also they did end up on the 40k equivalent of the Ishimura

[floral herald]

It’s probably those psychic worm fellas

[naive abyss]

Or the mushrooms

Love the mushrooms

[thin ibex]

I got no issues with tau not having warp based divine connection

Don't think everyone needs to

[floral herald]

I wouldn’t be shocked if Tau’va turned out to be some kind of fake though

[pulsar holly]

She's not is the thing

Like she's very much confirmed and implied to be exactly what she says she is

[floral herald]

I don’t think there’s any verification that Tau’va is what she says she is - though it seems proven that she’s a warp entity

(This might be partially cope for me since I am sort of against the idea conceptually)

[pulsar holly]

It does feel very much like cope (Swear I'm not intending to sound like an ass)

I know some folks despite the recent developments are still clinging to theories like maybe she's a Tzeentch related entity.

[floral herald]

I figure if the chaos gods were involved they’d have done something awful already

Although “tricking the Tau into killing their allies” maybe counts

[pulsar holly]

Except that was not her intention

She rescued them, and the Fourth Sphere Tau responded of their own volition

[floral herald]

I mean, under the theory that she’s actually the Changelings being a little silly with it or something that’d presumably be the intention

[pulsar holly]

She also ripped open a wormhole to keep the Tau empire connected to their holdings in the Nem’yar Atoll, and ||trapped a whole Deathguard fleet to protect the Tau||

[floral herald]

(Though I super don’t buy that one either it seems really lazy)

[thin ibex]

tbf, a lot of that moment was told to Shadowsun after the fact when she passed the f out

so while taken at face value, all of that happened in the way described, theres room for holes and skepticism

[pulsar holly]

Like everything she’s done has been to the benefit of the Tau Empire. ||She also saved Shadowsun during her training in her youth||

[thin ibex]

importantly, Shadowsun seems to think there's something ot it, as she ordered that the temples stop getting defaced

[pulsar holly]

Yeah, sorry I just don’t buy the idea that T’au’va is intended to be some weird out of left field Chaos intrigue

[thin ibex]

shadowsun didn't remember that even until after she got knocked out

[floral herald]

I don’t really buy it being chaos

But I could buy her being some kind of opportunistic warp entity who’s playing the part to get temples now that the walls between reality and the warp are all thin

[bright dove]

We get stuff like Saint Celestine and the Sanguinor without too much work. I can buy that the Tau have a god.

[pulsar holly]

Like I’d be fucking tired and frustrated if she turned out to be some random opportunistic warp entity

Like just let her be exactly what she is, a new deity embodying the concept of the Greater Good. Created by the psychic presence of the Tau allies, that desires to help the Empire.

[thin ibex]

I'm just saying, the fiction doesn't set things in stone nearly as much as you're implying. It certainly doesn't set in stone the idea of them being chaos any moreso, nor was I implying as much

but its certainly not a certainty as to what the T'au'va's nature really is

[jaunty dawn]

frankly it's more 40k style for it to just be a mystery

probably doesn't need to be explained

[bright dove]

It's more fun as a mystery.

[pulsar holly]

Until it’s not -gestures at all of Horus Heresy-

[unreal cosmos]

I'd rather just not think of her tbh

[thin ibex]

I personally didn't think the T'au'va was at all necessary to the tau story, but I'm not necessarily offended by their existence. That being said I hope they're never a unit or become central to Tau plots

[jaunty dawn]

it would be kinda funny to have a whole ass god as a unit tbf

[pulsar holly]

Don’t we technically have that with Ynnari, and then Khaine, and the C’than to some degree?

[jaunty dawn]

khaine and ctan are like fragments

[thin ibex]

Truth of the matter is I don't think the Tau need eldritch help or the inclusion of faith into their doctrine beyond the greater good. But equally true is that their allies absolutely do have faith

[jaunty dawn]

and I guess the yncarne is too really

or something? as established not an ynnari expert haha

[thin ibex]

the yncarne sounds like its an incarnate rather than the actual god

[jaunty dawn]

its possible nascent greated good god is in basically the same state though I guess. or something

[floral herald]

The Yncarne is just the Yncarne version of the Avatar of Khaine

Like a fragment but instead of being a fragment of a dead god a fragment of a god which isn’t real yet

[thin ibex]

the main thing i approve of is that it lends presence to tau empire client races

[floral herald]

A whole god just seems like a lot for that

[thin ibex]

it does, I agree

I'm kinda not down for Tau having get out of jail free cards from warp entities that like them; rather than through the power of their cooperative nature, applications of technology, and philosophies of war

[naive abyss]

I mean it's more called a god by the client races

[thin ibex]

feels cheap

[naive abyss]

It's not like "literally" a god

[bright dove]

Godhood still has degrees.

[naive abyss]

Like its the equivalent of vashtorr or belakor imo

[thin ibex]

i do get that the tau on the board and tau as a species dont have psykers, so it remains a vulnerable point, but rather a "god" why not have that vulnerability covered by a client species or technology?

[naive abyss]

I mean that is what it is

The tau actively don't recognize the entity as a god

It's just like tolerated cult done by their psychic clients

[thin ibex]

what i mean is why represent those client races with a gestalt warp entity rather than just representing those exact client species participating

[naive abyss]

Also it finally gave shadowsun a mcguffin like farsight

[bright dove]

It'd be weird if their client races didn't spawn some Greater Good thing in the warp.

[floral herald]

Tau’va is a lot more powerful than them in terms of things they’ve done though

At least from what we’ve seen

[naive abyss]

Idk how accurate that is

Considering vashtorr summoned shadow caliban

And all that shit with the arks

[thin ibex]

balakor is incredibly powerful isn't he?

[floral herald]

I didn’t say anything to diminish them haha

[naive abyss]

And belakor is implied to have manipulated multiple civilizations

[floral herald]

Just that what little we’ve seen from Tau’va establishes a very high bar

[naive abyss]

Like tauvas biggest thing is make wormhole

And that's it lol

[pulsar holly]

Bel’akor is -quickly glances around- a punk ass bitch ….there’s some loud banging coming from my wall, brb gonna check it out

[floral herald]

Yeah “fuck it, reverse hadex anomaly” is a really high showing

[thin ibex]

Or i guess to rephrase again, why represent the niccasaur with a seperate warp goddess of many arms and no face, and give them more screen time than the nicasaur have ever gotten?

[naive abyss]

Which I'd argue is less than what at least vashtorr has done

Considering he time travels and shit

[thin ibex]

if your warp based, i think time travel is just a thing

[upper canopy]

Tau'va makes sense because it's basically an entire interstellar empire dedicated to it's worship

[floral herald]

Vashtorr has a bunch of schemes and favors and tools and such, it’s not really the same level of power

[pulsar holly]

Love the time travel background for orks in W&G. “You have no idea how you’re back in this time period. But what you do know is that you really want to fight your past self.”

[upper canopy]

Every member of the entire civilization commits every action in it's name

That's gonna juice you quick

[bright dove]

We've had warp entities form over less.

[naive abyss]

He's literally summoned shadow caliban

[upper canopy]

That wasn't summoning by his own power

that was macguffins

also that wasn't Shadow Caliban that was actual Caliban

[floral herald]

Yeah he’s a premier macguffin hunter

[naive abyss]

Fair I guess

[floral herald]

no wonder him and Abaddon hang out

[upper canopy]

Vashtorr and Bel'akor don't have anyone close to the Tau worshipping them as far as we're aware

[naive abyss]

My stance is I love tauvas dynamic with shadowsun and imo she really needed something to macguffin with like farsight

[floral herald]

Like overall Vashtorr probably has more impact but he’s really old and is like a spidery mastermind power broker in the warp

[upper canopy]

Vashtorr CAN'T get too powerful either

He lives at the whims of the Brothers

If he got too powerful they'd just kill him and replace him

[thin ibex]

doesnt he already have his big key to get whatever he was going for to realize his big unnamed scheme?

[upper canopy]

Yeah

Caliban

[thin ibex]

or calibans like central ai

[floral herald]

He’s got one of em, but might need more

[naive abyss]

He's doing that with abby atm

[floral herald]

Cause his ultimate goal is making the big 4 the big 5

[upper canopy]

Caliban IS the macguffin

[floral herald]

Which is a pretty big ask

[naive abyss]

Whatever that actually is

[thin ibex]

oh i thought that was just an implication, rather than explicit

becoming the 5th chaos god i mean

[naive abyss]

I thought it was the key?

[upper canopy]

I mean yeah but it's also the macguffin

[floral herald]

I vaguely remember it being the key but there’s another lock it’s for or something

[upper canopy]

because it's also, by itself, such a monumental status quo changer

[naive abyss]

Cuz it unlocks an old one vault

As memory serves

[upper canopy]

Like holy fuck it's so bad for literally everyone else that Abbadon has this now

[floral herald]

I get that but most of them are like, intentionally atheistic and don’t have a major warp impression

Maybe it’s cause I’m reading the death and the end rn but it also seems sort of weirdly un-cataclysmic

[upper canopy]

The intentionally athiestic thing doesn't matter

Because it's like if there was a God of Luck and every time you prayed for good luck that god got a piece of that

if you think about doing something and dedicate it to The Greater Good

you empower Tau'va

[bright dove]

The emperor was an atheist, and yet still a god

[upper canopy]

And it's not like Tau don't have souls, they still due, and the Warp cares about fervant worship

Khorne wouldn't be as big if people just murdered each other

[floral herald]

I don’t think the emperor was a god

[upper canopy]

they have to murder each other FOR KHORNE

[bright dove]

I mean. Big E was enough of a god that the Chaos Gods went "We don't want him around"

[thin ibex]

iirc murder regardless of devotion does fuel khorne

[upper canopy]

Big E is probably a God now

[pulsar holly]

He definitely is now. And he also came pretty damn close during the Horus Heresy ||He almost became the Dark King. He had to be talked down by an old perpetual friend of his showing up||

[upper canopy]

or at the very least is indistinguishable from one.

[floral herald]

Khorne does take it all but likes it more when it’s in his name afaik

[upper canopy]

Orks killing does nothing for him.

[floral herald]

It all counts a little but it’s better when it’s intentional or something

[upper canopy]

Yeah

[bright dove]

Which is why I'll grumble about the Tyranid meatgrinder not sustaining his daemons.

[floral herald]

Also yeah the present tortured skeleton emperor might be a god but while he was walking around I don’t think he ever was

He’s just an Anomaly

[upper canopy]

I mean that's the thing is that like

It does stuff but it doesn't do enough

[pulsar holly]

||Dark King|| begs to differ

[upper canopy]

to sustain Daemons

[floral herald]

The Hive Mind is also a near-peer warp entity to the big 4

Which muddies any Tyranids vs the warp stuff

[floral herald]

No it’s a whole important thing that he doesn’t do that

[uneven ember]

Tyranids are space bug swarm and monsters that need slaying and an eldritch and unknowable intelligence from the dark between stars

[pulsar holly]

Yeah, but it very much implies the God-Emperor is already bordering on godhood at that point. He was already powerful enough at the time to warrant concern from all four Chaos Gods

[floral herald]

Like he gets hella close but there’s a pretty good taxa for a god in 40K - a self sustaining warp vortex -

[upper canopy]

I mean whatever Bel'akor did got the attention of the Chaos Gods

Big E ain't special

[bright dove]

I mean, I am willing to say that Bel'akor is also special.

[floral herald]

And the Emperor is an extremely powerful undying psyker with galaxy consuming ambition

[uneven ember]

I do think it's deliberately ambiguous how much if at all Big E is conscious or self-directed in his current state
Even Bobby's visit was a lot of confusing contradiction

[floral herald]

I agree

[bright dove]

Him not being fully aware was kind of the point of the Heresy.

The Chaos Gods worked incredibly hard to make sure he didn't just die.

[naive abyss]

Also tauva wasn't made by tau

It was made by clients

And like the rule around beliefs is laxer for them as I recall as is

[uneven ember]

My preferred interpretation is that yeah you get a lot of visitations or manifestations from Bug E but there's no one at the wheel
Authoritarianism needs the supreme authority, but it doesn't need him to do anything. A corpse in a chair works fine for the purpose

[pulsar holly]

Bug E?

-lifts bolter- Hey…does this Bug E happen to have four arms?

Or three?

[thin ibex]

i think my beef is not that the t'au'va doesn't make sense, but that it doesn't or didn't need to exist; and that it represents some species/factions that already don't get any time in the spotlight. The T'au'va existing makes sense in regards to being generated by a growing interstellar empire's faith.

[uneven ember]

,>_>
All Hail the Emperor and his normal number of arms!

[thin ibex]

I also kinda have beef with Shadowsun needing a warp goddess to intervene for her during puretide's training. I think she could have done it entirely on her own

Farsight frequently mentions that she was more capable and skilled than he was/is

[pulsar holly]

Ordo Xenos has their eyes on you

[naive abyss]

If memory serves she doesn't really help that much

And I honestly really like their dynamic

[pulsar holly]

She was responsible for making sure Shadowsun had air so she could stay conscious since she was losing consciousness and air…underwater

[naive abyss]

Cuz shadowsun just hates it

[pulsar holly]

And it’s implied she calmed the raging waters she was in

[pastel rampart]

He's special in the way Starscream is special: as the eternal butt of a joke, ever unable to bring his plans to fruition but always with the ego and drive to think he can.

[thin ibex]

khorne didn't intervene to save farsight during puretides training

[naive abyss]

Macguffin isn't khorne

It's his sword

And his whole story more or less lol

[thin ibex]

tbf, the dawnblade was found on the khorne planet, the same place he found the talisman, where the first and second khorne temptation happened

his main thing that wasn't involved with his ongoing khornate temptation storyline was the mirrorcodex

i will say that shadowsun needed more to build her up, and the T'au'va absolutely helps add a dimension to the character

just feels like to me, it compromises shadowsun's character a bit

in terms of their skill and ability

I do suppose thematically, Farsight's biggest contributions was war with the imperium, specifically space marines, and war with orks

Shadowsun could potentially represent more interaction with like... chaos

though farsight also has that connective tissue with khorne

[naive abyss]

I mean she actively is uncooperative

Which to me just sells her character even more

[thin ibex]

I do wonder if there'll be more narrative time devoted to or a special unit to the third student of puretide, kais

named ghostkeel would be kinda sick

[spice flicker]

Since the ancient in a grey knight terminator squad can take a psycannon as well as one other regular member of the squad, should each squad have 2 psycannons or should it be a different combo of special weapons?

[thin ibex]

honestly? kind of up to you

two psycannons is not a bad idea though

im a fan of psilencers for more shot volume of course

[spice flicker]

Toying around with an all terminator list from a while ago

Honestly not looking forward to paining so many ancient banners

If I try to max out psycannons (or special weapons in general) in the all terminator list I'll have it where 15 out of the 40 models in the army is armed with one.

2 per Squad (5 regular and 2 paladin squads) and 1 on the grand master for a total of 15 psycannons (or psysilencers) spread across the battlefield.

Is this how dark eldar feel spamming dark Lances?

[thin ibex]

probably yeah

its a lot of generalist strength 8 shooting

which can help put the hurt on non-vehicles nicely

i just like psilencers cause its so many shots, but it doesn't jump the hump on the toughness chart as nicely

[thin ibex]

considering the small range of weapon strengths, do yall think a heavy laspistol would believably be the same str rating on the table?

as a normal o ne*

[jaunty dawn]

yeah probably

[thin ibex]

so im watching a play on tabletop with deldar in it

whats the deldar tactical identity?

like what are they all about on the table?

[bitter mortar]

Fast

I've played against them more than the other elves, idk how they stack up to each other

but Deldar can move

[past sphinx]

throw em in a space boat and launch em

[bitter mortar]

ranged units are naturally quick, raiding boats yeah

their chargers can just zoom across the map

they seemed more glass cannony

many of their guns have a special rule to make wounding easier, flavored as poison

and their melees can make a lot of attacks

on the flipside, easy to break

mostly

they seemed tougher than the craftworlders?

not much health, but a few feel no pains, some ways to heal, invul saves

I think there was some morale targetting weapons in there too

or some passive to reduce enemy morale

all together fits the raider playstyle

they hit you hard in a weak place, cause some wounds and morale checks, then get out before you can hurt them too bad

[thin ibex]

oh they can really punch up against elite infantry with poison huh?

[bold halo]

been a few editions since I played regularly but yeah the dark eldar identity is glass cannons moving fast as fuck

[uneven ember]

Power From Pain is still just increasing by turn, right?

[dense sedge]

I wish the striking scorpions kill team had been half scorpions half another aspect warriors

[floral herald]

Same

Scorps and avengers would have been nice

[dense sedge]

I’d have preferred spiders

[floral herald]

Spiders seem super hard to include in KT in a balanced way

Maybe as their own team but not for a mix and match

Ooh, dark reapers might be easier

But that’s so much dakka…

[bold halo]

I'm glad it's all scorpions because it meant a new scorpion sculpt in the right quantity for a full unit of them in 40k without buying two boxes

almost 20 years to get a new sculpt of those

and yeah I love spiders to death but "teleport anywhere" as a unit identity seems basically impossible to make work in kill team

there's baseless speculation about new phoenix lords with the 10th edition eldar codex coming out hopefully this year still? but both a warp spider and a shadow spectre one would be extremely cool

as far as existing aspect warriors go, shining spears and shadow spectres have named phoenix lords but no minis or rules, warp spiders there's not even a name

[dense sedge]

I didn’t realize that was their identity, thought they were heavy weapons

[floral herald]

Actually wild to me how well they aged as models even if they’re now pretty aged

Yeah spiders are hyper mobile flamer-analogue users

It’d be hard to do them for KT since people that fast can play Objective Team really well

[uneven ember]

An all-Nightcrawler unit.

[dense sedge]

I wonder how mandrakes will work then

[uneven ember]

If Nightcrawler shot people with monofiliment nets.

[floral herald]

I’m fairly confident that both mandrakes and Nemesis Claw are gonna have weird Conceal order interactions

I also wouldn’t be shocked if mandrakes had redeploy stuff or a “teleports behind u” type stratagem where they step out of someone’s shadow

[uneven ember]

"fuck you I'm over here now"

[runic swallow]

And could potentially just… not bamf back out again

[bold halo]

Yeah warp spiders in 40k have a special ability to teleport a full 24" across the board but you roll a D6 per mini and on a 1 they just don't come out the other side

Aside from that their guns shred light infantry

The warp in their name is literal though, they have special backpacks that let them jump through hell

[floral herald]

I think a warp spider would be cool but not being able to put 8 on the table

[bold halo]

Once upon a time they had rending and could shred anything they wanted because that word was good as hell

[floral herald]

Eldar had so much rending oml

[bold halo]

Clowncar meta

[floral herald]

I guess rending would basically be devastating wounds now?

[bold halo]

Yeah rending was any roll of 6 to hit is an automatic wound, no save

Which made harlequins broooooken

Hence clown car meta

[floral herald]

I forget weren’t shuriken guns rending?

I remember them doing something special on a 6

[bold halo]

Important difference though

10th edition anything can potentially wound on a 6+, meanwhile

Here's the 4th ed damage table

Rending could throw dice at things the weapons had absolutely no business hurting

[floral herald]

Rending was also pretty rare

I know genestealers had it

And the assault cannon

I forget what else

[bold halo]

I think death company did

But most famously the clowns and their guns of turn your insides into soup

[floral herald]

The harlequin’s kiss was super nasty yeah

[dense sedge]

That’s a stupid high failure rate

[floral herald]

They’re also just 12” move jump troops safely

It’s “forgive me master I must go all out just this once” mode

[tired cairn]

It also doesn't necessarily mean they died. They could just be scattered to somewhere useless

Do warp-based teleporters (which is all but Necrons I think?) require the users to have mini-geller field equivalents? Or do you just hope you don't stay there long enough for a demon to eat you?

[runic swallow]

I think the latter

[floral herald]

For the imperium they use Astropaths to “clear a path” in the warp as the teleporter fires so the teleported people are in a calmer kind of warp aiui

[tired cairn]

Do warp spiders do that or are they just super hardcore?

[floral herald]

They have fancy psychic backpacks and I don’t know the specifics of it

But since they’re all psykers they can probably clear their own paths

(Obviously with some difficulty if they push it too hard)

[tired cairn]

Warp spiders (the creature) are pretty cool: little crystal spider things that can merge with the infinity circuits to travel around quickly

[brittle salmon]

The jumps Warp Spiders make are actually unprotected

so they spend brief microseconds in the Warp

[thin ibex]

It's why they are viewed with a bit of trepidation isn't it? That they expose themselves to so much risk?

[thin ibex]

Tried my hand at a drukhari list, they really do feel VERY punchy

But also, meltas and auto canons will eat them up

And heck

Anti fly seems like it'd just shit all over drukhari

[pulsar holly]

do I play a Halfling for this Enemy Within campaign or see if I can get an ogre into the party

[mental birch]

The funniest way to do the fire caste is to make them the cringiest part of navy seals

[solemn gull]

Halfling all the way

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VktytzkCRx8

[floral herald]

https://vxtwitter.com/terminallyol/status/1746171408466460783?s=46&t=RjdIzh2qFuWkjovzBmgCsQ

Post this here but let’s be real it applies better to FONV

[bright dove]

People are willing to forgive a lot if you're cool and/or hot

[naive abyss]

which ive always found sorta bizarre ngl

like you can like something/think its cool and still fully recognize its bad

like as long as you arent using that interest or etc to espouse the bad or cause harm its literally just you playing around in the idea of "what if i was the baddies"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCHbyiRGI30

this is a meme

but it reminds me how much i love nothing more in warhammer than "normal" people (human or otherwise) just going hard and it somehow just working

[junior summit]

I think that's the enclave

[floral herald]

I don’t remember them having a lot of Latin

[junior summit]

it's the enclave flag

wait no it isn't

goddammit is this a reference to OWB

[floral herald]

OWB?

Old world blues

No idea I didn’t play that

[junior summit]

OWB is a HOI4 mod

I'm trying to ID the flag

[uneven ember]

Oh yeah, it's cool to be into a villain. I've said before that DEldar fans are fun because they know it's "yeah they're cool villains with a dope look" (and/or "evil S&M elf >_>") & that's fine
Just that way too many IoM guys have to get all "you NEED them on that wall!" about it

[wintry mist]

that is the enclave logo

[jaunty dawn]

owb is a fallout mod for hoi4

also called old world blues lol

but yeah circle of stars and an e is enclave

[junior summit]

it's the enclave E but I don't recall there being one with an eagle around it

[naive abyss]

oh for sure

[junior summit]

ok can't find anything so it looks like something the artist put together

[naive abyss]

as like someone who actively critiques those sorta people i get it

[floral herald]

I think it’s meant to be kind of ambiguous

[jaunty dawn]

they might just be merging legion and enclave

[junior summit]

legion doesn't have an eagle or use power armor

[jaunty dawn]

so that it applies to fnv and other games

does it not?

[junior summit]

legion's a bull

[jaunty dawn]

wild

[naive abyss]

also one thing ill sorta say is while i get why people call deldar bdsm eldar it doesnt sometimes start to rub me the wrong way as someone into that sorta shit lol

[floral herald]

I think that’s also supposed to evoke the 40K Eagle

[junior summit]

I guess it's-yeah

mashup of 40k and enclave

[naive abyss]

random but morningstars aesthetics are still just so good to me

like fuck this is cool

peak like tacticool horrible murder machine vibes

like i sorta really adore the blend of visuals of aliens, 40k, and starship troopers its doing

[desert jay]

Sometimes I think about bits like "most of what the average hive worlder eats is corpse starch" but for that to be sustainable for more than a few weeks, the corpse starch would have to basically be "corpse-flavored vegetable starch"

[naive abyss]

also theres some interesting lore not like groundbreaking in any way but still interesting

[desert jay]

Which puts me in the mind of some old guy complaining about how they don't make corpse starch like they used to during the famine days, when people were dying of starvation in the streets but if you got your hands on some you could really taste the corpse

[naive abyss]

lol

[tired cairn]

Maybe they ship in corpses from other worlds

[pulsar holly]

Ehhh, I think it’s safe to say in the Underhive that the corpse starch is corpse starch.
Nothing like corpse starch to make you consider enlisting in the Astra Militarum (before you get drafted. Assuming you can enlist, considering how some planet’s regiments work) to hopefully get better food.

[desert jay]

https://what-if.xkcd.com/105/

[pulsar holly]

discord please give me link preview darn it

[ebon forge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/295768425878257665/1195808245130985562/20240113_130705.png?ex=65b55636&is=65a2e136&hm=57198a87639aa52418a99f4287f3f6f50b73ee0024321795d890ea25292a6994&

[desert jay]

It's the What If about how long humanity could survive on pure cannibalism

[floral herald]

This is afaik just true - compositionally corpse starch AKA “soylent viridian” is mostly aquaculture algae

With bodies mixed in as additional protein and as a way to get rid of the dead

[untold swallow]

Did they literally call it Soylent viridian

[floral herald]

Yes

[untold swallow]

God damn it

XD

That’s so shameless in a way I can’t help but applaud tbh

‘Yes’

[desert jay]

If I was feeling bloody-minded I could compute the ratio of corpse to starch based on average life expectancy and bodyweight

(Technically also need the calorie density of corpses and a daily calorie allotment)

[naive abyss]

love theres a character called angron whose angry as his key trait

also Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau though i always forget if hes fanon or canon lol

[floral herald]

He’s canon as hell

Just rogue trader era

[naive abyss]

also ngl i love the guns they have here

[desert jay]

Calories/lb * lbs/corpse * corpses/life / days/life / calories/day = proportion of corpse calories out of total calories

[naive abyss]

just like a really well designed not a storm bolter imo

[sinful merlin]

Ferrus Manus, with his iron hands, primarch of the Iron Hands 😏

[floral herald]

Wait which one is the not a storm bolter?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/c/c6/PrimarisCaptainHeavyBoltRifleMini.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220725181726

I read them as heavy bolt rifles but with really exaggerated picatinny rails

[naive abyss]

look at the barrels

theres two side by side

hard as fuck to see in this image

[floral herald]

Which makes me realize that exaggerated “cathedral arch” mounting rails would look really good for 40K models

[naive abyss]

tru

oh wait its maybe tribarreled

lemme glance through the descriptions

unclear but it appears to be multi barreled pretty sure

[floral herald]

Huh, it looks like the underbarrels aren’t that long to me

[naive abyss]

i know theres also that one gun that is definitely at least double barreled in the animation

[floral herald]

Maybe it’s 2 integrated grenade launchers?

Yeah I remember that for sure

[naive abyss]

i honestly dont know

i just know we know at least one standard rifle they have is double barreled and double mag lol

[floral herald]

Both of them kind of remind me of the m60

Which I guess is probably intentional

[zinc field]

Oh my god I hate resin

I couldn’t get the belt to bend, and then it snapped, and now I’m just crudely green stuffing it in place

[runic swallow]

You gotta heat it with a hairdryer is the usual trick to bending em

Unless you knew that and it didn’t work

[zinc field]

I think I’ll make this a grimy paint job with a bunch of obvious patches and battle damage to make it fit the belt

[zinc field]

Yup. That’s how I snapped it

LEDs work really well with knights, though. Very easy to do

[jaunty dawn]

not sure if it's worse to deal with bending resin or making the like billion links for the plastic kit

[tired cairn]

The links are at least cool from a technical level

[runic swallow]

OPPORTUNITY FOR GLORY SPOTTED

[dense sedge]

How are other companies resin?

[pastel rampart]

Depends on the company but often leagues better than FW.

Anvil Industry especially does quality stuff.

[naive abyss]

lol yeah

its one of my reasons i dog fw resin so much

also ngl i like these weird plant aliens morningstar has concepted even if they are sorta hilariously adjacent to sexy warframe designs

[weary dragon]

Oh thats pretty cool

[naive abyss]

i do wish they were a bit less humanoid but still cool

[dense sedge]

How is kingdom death resin?

[floral herald]

I've heard its generally pretty good

[naive abyss]

also very random and take with decent amount of salt but ive heard part of why chorfs are legacy and etc in old world is due to them being mid dev for chorfs in aos

[dense sedge]

there's been a lot of rumors for skaven v chorfs next editions

I was personally hoping it would be Malerion and the Druchiroth

[naive abyss]

while i get wanting that and i hope we eventually get it

the dorfs desperately need some love lol

as do skaven honestly

i do hope skaven get some range refreshes

really would love them to have some quality newer minis to pit against the updated lizards

[long void]

lizard vs rat box would be cool

[naive abyss]

well idk if itd be a box since lizards just got a bunch of shit

[long void]

It's likely one reason skaven aren't in the core Old World launch is because of the range refresh

[dense sedge]

dark elves vs chaos dwarves would also be fun

[naive abyss]

if it chorfs vs rats id imagine its like fantasy ww1 lol

[naive abyss]

for sure

they also pretty obviously didnt want to emphasize as many aos factions with newer models as they could

like the only reason we have chaos warriors as core is you could not really get away with them not imo

[dense sedge]

why play decade old models when you could play a faction with an amazing newer range?

[naive abyss]

?

[floral herald]

https://vxtwitter.com/jetblackraider/status/1746278928346734986?s=20

[naive abyss]

i mean its more to avoid them having people buy one army for both

its to help emphasize and have people buying both aos and old world

[tired cairn]

That's one way to not lose your bolter when you drop it

[naive abyss]

the BT classic of chaining weapons to your hands

[junior robin]

the classic bolter/rope dart combi weapon

[pastel rampart]

SM version of the wallet chain.

[uneven ember]

WE CHAIN OUR WEAPONS TO OUR HANDS AS SIGNS OF DEVOTION, THAT WE WILL NOT REST NOR ABATE UNTIL THE BATTLE IS DONE, AND IF WE FALL WE SHALL DIE ARM'D.
Ah. So, not... for instance... because you guys keep losing your guns and the Tech Marines were getting annoyed?
HEYO SHUT THE F

[pine matrix]

Are there any Tau POV stories?

[floral herald]

Shadowsun books

[pine matrix]

Oh nice!

[naive abyss]

a few exist at this point i think

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1744762991793274890

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1745595479751119358

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1746177471035133979

[weary dragon]

Love these

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WftI31Zefi0

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/lDQL6o

[thin ibex]

Farsight and Shadowsun novels

• Farsight: Crisis of Faith
• Farsight: Empire of Lies
• Shadowsun: The Patient Hunter
• Fire Cast (includes some tau perspective iirc)
• Damocles (anthology)

[pine matrix]

Thank you!

[thin ibex]

• Fire Warrior as well

There's also some short stories

• Aun'Shi
• Voice of Experience
• Kauyon

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/n0EoQe

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XgvO00

[naive abyss]

lol

tbh i like rhinos

them and lemans are what first come into my head when i think imperial vehicles

[runic swallow]

Look, it’s sorta M113 shaped, and that’s a positive in my book

[pastel rampart]

I just wish they were easier to build.

[thin ibex]

i wanna make a rhino centric build now

ultra marines?

[pulsar holly]

Oh my God....I was wondering if there was a way for a Halfling to be a knight. I just found out about the Badger Riders!

[bright dove]

Any marines

That's the glory of the rhino

[floral herald]

Slightly deep cut but Aurora Chapter

[untold swallow]

I am heavily rewriting my Chapter

[floral herald]

Oh?

[untold swallow]

Cursed Founding

immediately fucked off and made their homeworld into a sword & sorcery medieval world led by dynasties of sorcerer kings cloned from their chapter master, chief librarian, chapter champ, etc

oops one of them is a genestealer cult several hundred years later and the chapter is called by duty and filial obligation to purge the cult

oops several of the families have turned into cadres of Chaos Sorcerers who've summoned demons to fight the genestealers

Oh God the Ordo Hereticus is here

Long story short the Chapter had to purge all the dynasties and forsake their homeworld by order of the Inquisition or be declared Excommunicate Traitoris

[brittle salmon]

ill be real I feel like the Inquisition would be looking at that from step 1

[untold swallow]

fair

Though I will admit I thought the Inquisition kind of mostly left Astartes homeworlds alone

[floral herald]

It's complicated is the short version

[brittle salmon]

Cloning Astartes, and Astartes psykers at that, is like

Turbo heresy

[untold swallow]

fffffffair

Ohkay I have jumped the shark I think

[floral herald]

Cloning is weird in 40k because its really common and sort of normal

Except if you're cloning important people

[untold swallow]

Since the augmentations of a space marine are done post-utero

I thought it didn't really change their genes that much

[floral herald]

Like chapters are usually built up initially by making a shitload of clones of known-stable-acceptor people just to make geneseed

It doesn't yeah

But making clones of heroes? It's like almost literally cursed to try

(The Imperium has, and the clones are supernaturally cursed with the Afriel Strain project)

[untold swallow]

hm

Maybe it could be that they found this world?

And just sort of

didn't report it initially?

[floral herald]

Weirdly enough, either from some problem with it or just stigma the space marines don't use cloned inductees but recruited ones

[untold swallow]

and just vibed

[floral herald]

(At least, its never mentioned)

[untold swallow]

until said gsc happened

[floral herald]

But use clones to make geneseed copies

[untold swallow]

and recruited mainly from the sorcerer families?

[pastel rampart]

That said you can just go with a bunch of clones because 40k is Weird Like That and it makes it an interesting wrinkle.

[floral herald]

Yeah

[untold swallow]

"Hey, Chapter Master Loreid the XIII?"

[floral herald]

I've always just been a little puzzled with "ok step 1 is making like 10,000 vat-clones to mas grow a geneseed stock for the new chapter" and then "but don't actually make any clones into neophytes for the new chapter" thing

[untold swallow]

"Yes Inquisitor?"

"Why does it say in this planet's genealogical record of sorcerer-kings that the first Chapter Master, Loreid the I, is your great grandmother 11 times removed?"

"Um..."

"No reason..."

I think what I may have it be

Is they just fucked off so far immediately, ostensibly to deal with some small threat, the Inquisition just never bothered in comparison to the other cursed Chapters

And they may have even had a good reputation for being seemingly the one cursed Chapter to not do anything fucking stupid

[floral herald]

Chapters also have a lot of leeway to run their affairs their own ways

[untold swallow]

and then whoops chaos sorcerer kings

goodwill ruined!

homeworld purged!

reputation in fucking tatters!

[floral herald]

Like 50% of space marines are like "yea we do ritual cannibalism, what of it" and the Inquisition is generally just like "carry on angels"

[thin ibex]

Honestly? I feel like this list could work!

fully traditionalist

[floral herald]

Yeah that looks pretty functional for sure

Also one of the most meat and potatoes SM lists I've seen haha

[thin ibex]

im kind of a big fan of predator destructor lascannons combo

as a generalist armor platform

rather than the armor hunting annihilator

[floral herald]

hmm

sorry unrelated but I was looking at SM chapter traditions

Amongst the many rites practised by the Mortifactors is the tradition of seeking, on the eve of battle, a trance-like state akin to death. The Mortifactors believe that in so doing they will commune with the primarch and their ancestors, who will lend them great strength when battle commences.
They're Ultramarine successors

Does Guilliman just have to take their psychic calls?

[thin ibex]

so uh... now that roboute is around

lol

yeah

[thin ibex]

@jaunty dawn thought you might interested in a rhino/firstborn list

[naive abyss]

so my partner just said they think theyll be moving their game into whfrp 4e and im out here like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5mVGHZqwus

[uneven ember]

Bob just there like "guys, this is... really awkward, I can't lie."

[upper canopy]

I think it's because while the clones are genetically receptive of geneseed they don't like

Make good warriors or live long enough to make good Marines

[floral herald]

I think that's the idea yeah'

They don't need to be viable they just need to live 10 years in a vat

[uneven ember]

Taking this a couple steps, I wonder how many Imperial places do manufacture sub-Astartes-level supersoldiers.

[upper canopy]

Any thing named Genewarriors

[uneven ember]

House Goliath in Necromunda kinda counts.

[jaunty dawn]

8 rhino chassis and a land raider, nice

[untold swallow]

My wood elf mage apprentice healing your wounds afterwards be like "You're a fucking idiot."

[naive abyss]

i dont think youd have healing as a mage if im remembering the magic jobs right lol

[untold swallow]

Fair, treating is probably a better word

I do mean bandaging and stuff

I'm not expecting healing spells

[naive abyss]

lol fair

[upper canopy]

Life magic is healing.

[naive abyss]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/959855447966371891/1195886871222435880/RDT_20240113_003331.mp4?ex=65b59f70&is=65a32a70&hm=8101dd2d4aa2d1b24f297c11bf7a95dfdf9d5b4e2b6cd91feb2ad4060bd21199&

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/comments/195lhk0/angels_of_retribution_army_for_an_rtt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[quaint compass]

It is also the hurting

[floral herald]

Ok since C7 is whack with marketing awareness

https://cubicle7games.com/warhammer-40-000-wrath-glory-aeldari-inhertihance-of-embers-pdf

Eldar book is out for PDF

(Actually has been for 2 days but I didn't realize until now)

[untold swallow]

Is Slayer a basic dwarf career?

[brittle salmon]

Yeah

It's combat focused to the very hilt and you can't change career except to promote to higher Slayer ranks

But it has a lot of good shit

[quaint compass]

One of the few sources of the Fearless talent. Sharing it with the noble Grail Knight and even nobler dung collector.

[untold swallow]

Oh cool

Are there any fun unique basic wood elf careers?

I don’t have any of the books lol

[quaint compass]

Not for 2e WHRP afaik

[upper canopy]

They're playing 4e

in which there isn't any other