Warhammer and Such

[floral herald]

It was never decanonized they just didn't mention it in the 7e books

It's a good moment imo

[alpine quarry]

But i didnt hear any like lore additions

[untold swallow]

But in reality, in the deep dark corners of their Librarius

[uneven ember]

Maybe Killteam would be a way to introduce Chaos Eldar.

[floral herald]

Probably the most unfairly hated bit of 40k lore imo

[untold swallow]

A book says it's Magnus, the author swears

And is totally not a conspiracy theorist

[untold swallow]

It's fucking metal

I approve

Even if the reason it probably wasn't reiterated was the writing being

[thin ibex]

chaos gate is also fun cause it has so much dang environmental interaction

[untold swallow]

weird

about it being wamen blood

[naive abyss]

i dont like it due the logic of it

[bold halo]

wait rhi speaking of salamanders successors and bones do you know about the black dragons

[untold swallow]

what's the logic given in setting?

[untold swallow]

No but I saw their name on the wiki and went 'wow that's generic'

[naive abyss]

its vaguely playing the trope of nuns are viriginal and pure

[bold halo]

they're a cursed founding chapter with wolverine bone claws

[naive abyss]

granted its not because theyre viriginal in this case but still

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/throw-up-dry-heave-vomit-gross-eww-gif-23254765

[naive abyss]

sob blood pure tm

[untold swallow]

Yeah that's grody

I hope if they rewrite it it's because the SoB are just

so angry their blood wards off demons even postmortem

[naive abyss]

i mean it just didnt happen

[uneven ember]

Yeah I love them.
And the whole thing where they keep sending geneseed for analysis by Mars & it keeps coming back clean.

[naive abyss]

in part cuz how it was written was dumb as shit imo

[thin ibex]

i think my issue with it is the implication that somehow the gk needed help from like sob blood to fight daemons; thats just strange to me

[untold swallow]

I thought Cyan said it wasn't decanonized it just didn't get written in a later codex

[thin ibex]

rather than just having their own ritual to commit

[untold swallow]

Though

That might be the same thing as decanonized

oh random question

Are salamander successor chapters also gray skinned and red-eyed?

[naive abyss]

for me its they dont even communicate with the sob which are one of the only orgs gk ostensibly work with sometimes

[uneven ember]

So you've got a dude with Wolverine bone claws and horns growing from his forehead going "yup, 100% mutation-free geneseed. Nothing suspicious going on here."

[untold swallow]

I mean I assume there exists somewhere pre-corruption Magnus geneseed

[upper canopy]

Usually yeah.

[alpine quarry]

Irc they can be but not necessarily

[upper canopy]

It's a quirk of the geneseed but it's a usual thing.

[uneven ember]

I think this is one of the times the answer is "they are if you want them to be."

[naive abyss]

i wouldnt call the skin grey lol

[untold swallow]

Besides, this chapter is already rationalized for having women by saying 'their creator belisarius cawl wanted to see if he could do it for the lols'

[alpine quarry]

Salamander thing irc isnt actually salamander exclusive

Any space marine can turn into charcoal irc

[untold swallow]

And if anyone had access to pre-corruption Magnus geneseed

[upper canopy]

The lore that it runs off of is that the Warp works off narrative and emotional resonance and so murdering people at the height of fervor will do magic shit.

[untold swallow]

Guilliman and Cahl were probably it

[uneven ember]

It's fun to work out your Chapter's succession to the Legion but let's never forget that like half of GW's canon chapters have a canonical heritage of "i forgor 🤷 "

[untold swallow]

Wait the GK murdered the sisters??????

[naive abyss]

yes

[thin ibex]

yeah

[untold swallow]

I'm sorry what the fuck???????????????????????????

[naive abyss]

they show up without explanation and start murdering them lol

[thin ibex]

straight up mercced them and took their blood

[untold swallow]

I

[uneven ember]

I mean that sounds pretty GK-ish to me idk

[naive abyss]

which gk murdering people i usually dont mind cuz they have to be secret tm

[untold swallow]

WHAT THE FUCK??????????????????????????????

[alpine quarry]

I dont remember whats the justufication for the genetic blackface adaptation tho

[naive abyss]

but the sob are one of the few groups they usually work with

[untold swallow]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

sorry

[upper canopy]

They live on a highly radioactive planet and the skin color is their radiation-proof skin.

[alpine quarry]

Just that if circumstances fit marines can turn grey

Ohh

[untold swallow]

second wind from adhd meds and caffiene just activated

But

[alpine quarry]

Right

[untold swallow]

What the fuck????

Who wrote that???

[alpine quarry]

Radiation

[untold swallow]

Why????

[uneven ember]

Look, normalize Imperial armies killing each other, that's all I'm saying.

[upper canopy]

Rhi

It's like

not that extreme I'm gonna be honest

[untold swallow]

Fair

I'll chill

[bold halo]

imperium just kinda be like that

[uneven ember]

They needed super-faithful blood.

[desert jay]

I saw commentary once that if the GK walked up and said "hey we need some martyr's blood" it would be in-character for SoB to start lining up and taking numbers

[upper canopy]

Every Guardsman that ever sees a Gray Knight is executed to maintain their secrecy.

[naive abyss]

thats sorta my issue with it yeah

[alpine quarry]

Our killteam specops was spave marines vs cadians vs rogue trader vs necrons
We love imperial infighting

[upper canopy]

And Space Marines get their minds wiped of the entire engagement.

[naive abyss]

like of all the groups to just decide to not explain to

the ones you could get literal volunteers from pretty easily is a bizarre one

[untold swallow]

This feels less weird than 'murder the space nuns cuz we need to cause a disturbance in the force' to me

[alpine quarry]

The babygrinding factory

[naive abyss]

and sob exist in this weird spot of being one of the few factions regularly depicted working with the gk lol

[untold swallow]

Okay that question is asking 'why did somebody write that' not 'why did the knights do this in universe'

[thin ibex]

the SoB and Space marines generally work with the GK the most, baring hte inquisition in general

[untold swallow]

two people have responded as if it's the latter, I have been informed of the latter

At this point I just wanna know who

So I can avoid that shit lol

[naive abyss]

well its also the sob are like on call to the ordos heriticus/malleus

generally speaking

like the two use to be in the same codex if memory serves lol

[untold swallow]

oh another question

[desert jay]

I think it might've been under Matt Ward's watch while he was in charge and GK was his fave faction

[untold swallow]

which ordo of the inquisition deals with like

[thin ibex]

wel in the old chambers militant, the sob were chamber militant for the hereticus, gk were chamber militant for the maellus

[untold swallow]

heretical magic specifically

[bold halo]

they started as separate books but idk if they converged at some point

[uneven ember]

Sisters spent an edition in the Hereticus Codex, yeah.

[naive abyss]

how are we defining that

[upper canopy]

It was Matt Ward yeah

[naive abyss]

cuz generally hereticus

[thin ibex]

i.e. sob were on call to hunt heretics, and gk were on call to hunt daemons

[untold swallow]

doing exodite scrimshaw to enhance your psychic powers

[upper canopy]

And as for "why" idk, he probably he thought it was neat.

[naive abyss]

hereticus then

or well

[untold swallow]

Or having a psychic bond to a weird space dragon

[naive abyss]

ehhhh

[alpine quarry]

Its one of the moments were wh 40k really blurts out some shock value because its edgy

[naive abyss]

maybe xenos in that case

[alpine quarry]

It happens

[naive abyss]

cuz its xenos shit

the two ordos would fight about it

[uneven ember]

Hereticus got the Sisters, Malleus got the Knights, Xenos got the Deathwatch.

[naive abyss]

probably

[untold swallow]

lol

[thin ibex]

the ol chamber militant was deathwatch iirc

[naive abyss]

aka whichever ordo heres about it first gets jurisdiction lol

[thin ibex]

tho i dont know if the chamber militant stuff is still a thing

[untold swallow]

the two ordos spend too much time shadowboxing each other in the bureaucracy to actually do something about the heretic loyalist astartes riding space dragons

[naive abyss]

i mean youre joking

[untold swallow]

Oh I'm not

That is now the plan

[alpine quarry]

Novamarines killing children they are meant to liberate

Space marine breeding worlds

Etc

[naive abyss]

but like inquisitors of different ordos shadow warring is not unheard of or even really all that outrageous

[untold swallow]

space marine...

someone is horny in a very specific way...

[alpine quarry]

Death spectres

[untold swallow]

I don't even wanna know

[naive abyss]

or that one piece of iron warriors lore on how they maintain numbers

though im genuinely unsure if thats canon anymore

[untold swallow]

Question

[bold halo]

inquisitors of the same ordos will fight each other over methodology

[pastel rampart]

There's a few chapters that are rumored to use TK geneseed, notably GK and possibly Blood Ravens.

[untold swallow]

Do psyker powers work on Star Wars logic when it comes to bionic replacements

[naive abyss]

what do you mean

[untold swallow]

As in do they lessen the more bionic you are?

[naive abyss]

no

[untold swallow]

Like how Vader being over half machine made him no longer a God of the Force

[naive abyss]

in fact bionics are often used to enchance psyker powers

[upper canopy]

No.

[untold swallow]

Okay so my chapter will still do dreadnoughts

[naive abyss]

BA have librarian dreadnoughts

[upper canopy]

Yeah there's psyshic dreadnoughts in the Blood Angels.

[untold swallow]

Holy fuck

Cool

[bold halo]

yeah it rules

[untold swallow]

Stealing those

[bold halo]

just some bones and a brainstem in a big metal box but it's still psychic babyyyyyy

[floral herald]

Usually I see that as something which specifically says something isn't canon anymore

[untold swallow]

I am just running with making the most 'oc don't steal' chapter I can and having so much fun

[bold halo]

it's the best way to do it

[floral herald]

But yeah its good GK lore, shows how they're ruthlessly practical, work very hard to maintain that no-corruption record, and view everyone else as expendabel

[bold halo]

I guarantee there's some insane oc don't steal canon you haven't heard of yet

[alpine quarry]

Its not them fucking (they cant), its them kidnapping and doing eugenics

The moment in the book is like

CW: i give a short rundown of what happens there
||"place is getting massacred by flayed ones"||
||"marines grab a girl that begs them to save her brother, they reply that her brother is dead and they are only saving her because she will produce strong offspring on their breeding planet"||
more or less

[alpine quarry]

At least they are meant to be the bad guys

[untold swallow]

bro what the fuck lmao

[uneven ember]

I did love one of the things in Dark Heresy where it was, like
"All-out Inquisitorial war can and does wind up with both sides commandeering planetary armies and sector battlefleets, so most Inquisitors try to avoid direct confrontation whenever possible. More often than not they'll restrain themselves to polite but barbed disagreements over drinks, and have their Acolytes doing the dying and killing one another to resolve the conflict by proxy. (That's you.)"

[alpine quarry]

That was my reaction (but please dont call me bro or dude, sorry xd)

[floral herald]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the Novamarines

[untold swallow]

oh sorry

[floral herald]

Just cause I think that was another chapter, or there's 2 which do that

Death Spectres!

[alpine quarry]

Irc there was a bit where novamarines have to get behind enemy lines and find a loyalist village that greets them

The breeding world is death spectres

Those are 2 different examples of grim derp i cited

[floral herald]

Oh I see now

The perils of talking and writing at once haha

Death Spectres are another one of those chapters which I am unfairly annoyed by because their weird deviations from the codex are hard to represent on the table

[alpine quarry]

Kinda

[floral herald]

(Emperor's Spears are another one because its hard to field Druids)

[uneven ember]

& yeah, I generally liked that, and the fact that it really does make it clear that the Grey Knights are daemon-killers, but that doesn't mean their paladins of goodness and hope fighting back the evil with their sheer goodness, it means they're knowlegable in the forbidden arts and magical powers to kill them by whatever means necessary.
I just feel like it kinda slid into Ward's whole thing where he has to absolutely chump any of the other factions is coolest best boys interact with.

[floral herald]

I think at the time people were pretty primed to get mad about it and there was some stuff in the codex which was much more egregious

[upper canopy]

Everyone just liked to get mad at everything in the Wardian-era

[uneven ember]

Yeah both true.

[bold halo]

hey ward doesn't always chump a faction, sometimes he makes them friends

[uneven ember]

Nothing like this new enlightened age. >_>

[floral herald]

Like a lot of the stuff about kaldor

Who I still think is kind of lame even if his deal of being doomed to pointlessly wander the chaos wastes is neat

but we did get this out of it which was funny

[upper canopy]

If they kept him to that and him fighting rando daemons it'd probably be fine tbh

I mean it's not like anyone got mad at Oxoytl

[floral herald]

Yeah it was mostly just how seemingly effective he was in the warp

[upper canopy]

Fun fact

in TTS there was a plot point regarding Kaldor Draigo that me and Alfa argued about for 3 days and 3 nights.

I'm not gonna reveal what tho.

[uneven ember]

Before the final blow was struck, I threw open a Rift and flung him into the Warp where my evil is strong! Now the fool seeks to return to the material and undo the glory that is M'Kar!```

[alpine quarry]

I loved tts depiction of draigo

[floral herald]

lmao

[upper canopy]

Tbf

I don't think I can judge Draigo anymore

after what we did in W&G

[floral herald]

hahaha

[brittle salmon]

Voy can you DM me the deets, I think I'll go crazy thinking about this otherwise

[upper canopy]

Nope!

Company secret sorry.

[brittle salmon]

aughh

[floral herald]

You can tell me I’ve never seen any of tts :p

[upper canopy]

I'm out here casting maledictions and hexes tonight.

I'm just super opinionated and stubborn sometimes

[untold swallow]

Other chapters probably do this (looking at you Space Wolves) but I think the Drakes are gonna keep displays of notable dispatched tyranid bioforms in their Librarius

[thin ibex]

the salamanders probably do that too, part of their initiation is to hunt a literal salamander iirc

so theres some pride and honor in hunting notable creatures

[floral herald]

I think most chapters keep trophies

[bright dove]

Ah, missed the talk of the time Grey Knights sacrificed SoB

My problem with it is super simple

The blood thing happened when they went to fight KHORNATE DAEMONS

[thin ibex]

That is a thing too yeah

[bright dove]

So they commit violent murder and coat themselves in blood

Which ?????

[thin ibex]

Khorne explicitly does not care about why or where the blood is spilled

He's not gonna give a damn about "pure" blood

[bright dove]

They are, in fact, probably getting good results from doing this

[floral herald]

It super was the case that it made a difference though

[bright dove]

That is what makes it bad writing

Similarly bad writing is the time Tyranids invaded a Daemon World

And suddenly stopped counting as blood flowing at some point during the battles

[floral herald]

Ok I’m not talking about that or even sure what you’re referencing lol

[untold swallow]

Many artifacts created by the Drakes are composed of the remains of Tyranid bioforms, a successor practice to the dragon-relics of their earliest days. Among them are Chitinbiter, a chainsword whose teeth were extracted from felled Gaunts and carved with votives and prayers, the Shell of Ancients, a relic shield made of the carapace of a Tyrant Guard, allegedly ripped from the carcass and used to shelter a wounded Chaplain mid-battle, and the Final Antenna, a focus staff bent straight from the warped and twisted spine of a psychically mighty Zoanthrope.More Cool Chapter Things

I'm most proud of the Final Antenna tbh

Cuz I couldn't figure out how one would make a focus staff out of a tyranid

but then I thought 'what if one of them was dumb enough to try and Bane a Zoanthrope and it worked'

[floral herald]

Another option if you’re looking for ideas could be a Bonesword

[untold swallow]

I'm currently satisfied with my number of examples

[floral herald]

Since they’re sentient and psychic

[untold swallow]

looks up boneswords

'oh what in the fuck'

I don't think they'd use an unaltered bonesword

and one they've carved into and slaved to their like

'signature'

still kinda feels like it'd be a bridge too far for them

[floral herald]

I was thinking using one as the base for a force weapon since it’s psychoactive and they work with wraithbone

Probably a dead one

[untold swallow]

I think I'm good keeping it to what I have

[floral herald]

Fair

[untold swallow]

And I think in my own writing wraithbone is going to remain distinctly Aeldari

Like both my homebrew factions are humans going 'no exodites we swear'

but I need to limit myself so I don't just end up in a 'why don't I just write eldar' situation

[bitter mortar]

baselessly going to assume that one guy who thought he was a ctan was right all along

[thin ibex]

Threw together a quick Salamander themed list

[bitter mortar]

sucks TTS never got to do anything with the Void Dragon - would've been sick

[untold swallow]

Is there a general description of Astartes anti-Tyranid tactics?

Cuz most of what I've thought of is 'Burn them.'

'Fucking burn them.'

[bitter mortar]

afaik Tau and Admech have done Bio-weaponry, not sure that spread to the Astartes

probably take out synapse nodes?

[bitter mortar]

then repeat step 1:

[untold swallow]

fairs

The reason I ask is I'm trying to think of how the Drakes arm themselves

Since they are an atypical chapter as far as weaponry goes

Probably as far as vehicles go too tbh

[floral herald]

There isn’t really a single set of them because Tyranids are extremely tricky and adaptive

[untold swallow]

Like a 20th of them are mounted on

goddamn dragons

fair point cyan

[floral herald]

There’s various specialist groups like the (currently defunct?) Tyranid War Veterans the Ultramarines fielded for a while and the Deathwatch and such

[untold swallow]

I think I've figured it out tho

They favor air assets I think

[thin ibex]

I think the premier Tyranid fighting experts for the longest time was the ultramarines, and the biggest overall general tactic was to destroy synapse creatures first

I think the blood angels learned their own interpretation of this as well

Though usually through surgical assault rather than delivery of choice firepower

Generally though, the key to defeating Tyranids rests in defeating them in space rather than on the ground

As effectively no place that has received the attention of a splinter fleet has won without destroying the fleet in orbit somehow

That I can think of

[floral herald]

Yeah that’s the dirty secret for space marines and Tyranids I think

Your best friend is the Imperial Navy

[thin ibex]

I did look it up, the Mechanicus did manage to win a ground war against Tyranids apparently, by recycling bionics and repeatedly torching the surface of the world

To starve them of biomass

In general no one beats nids without great sacrifice, even if the narrative doesn't lend weight to those sacrifices

[verbal ermine]

https://fxtwitter.com/Mick19988/status/1681193325255331842

[thin ibex]

(Looking at you entire first company of ultra marines)

[uneven ember]

"Kill The Big Ones" used to be an actual rule for 'nids

[thin ibex]

It's still generally good advice for your field and squad level commanders

Especially if they've not had the chance to study up

[untold swallow]

This is lowkey what the Ivory Drakes do

[thin ibex]

The lieutenant with combi weapon let's go

[untold swallow]

sorry I just keep talking about them but they are a chapter that sprung near fully formed from my mind today lol

[verbal ermine]

👀

[floral herald]

Yeah I think it let you ignore target priority for tyranid MCs or something?

[verbal ermine]

oooooh
What's their whole gimmick?

[untold swallow]

They're a chapter mostly composed of psykers whose first campaign was a war against tyranids on an Exodite Maiden World

[floral herald]

I do like this guy though I think I missed the boat on Leviathan

[verbal ermine]

oooh

So they have some resistance to the Shadow of the Warp?

[untold swallow]

Not wanting to destroy the verdant world with orbital bombardment, they prosecuted a ground war, and lost ground until the Chapter Master, in a desperate bid, asked the world spirit for aid

[thin ibex]

Did touching the hive mind a bunch fuck with them any or give em any weird quirks?

[uneven ember]

yah back when you needed to pass Ld to shoot anyone but the closest enemy, you could still ignore the termagants

[untold swallow]

said world spirit gave them the knowledge to create psychically amplifying scrimshaw

and so they first did this to exodite dragons to get an edge against the nids

and now they do this to the nids

[verbal ermine]

👀

[untold swallow]

The weapon of office for the Captain of the Veteran 1st is a chainsword made of carved Gaunt teeth

for example

by the way the whole 'beseech the world spirit' and 'refuse to prosecute an orbital bombardment because green planet' are just the official line

The truth is, in all likelihood

There was a local exodite population the marines didn't want to genocide, but they didn't want to get named heretics for aiding them and learning stuff from them

and also the chapter master possibly having a relationship with one

[untold swallow]

The scrimshaw stuff effectively cancels it out on the local level, before then they were dealing with relatively standard 'wow the Shadow sucks for us' stuff

Some are superstitious and think that the stuff made from the nids themselves is more effective

They're a weird mix of psykers and superstitious monster hunters is p much the lowdown

[verbal ermine]

oooooh

[untold swallow]

Also me saying a 20th of them being mounted on dragons was neither a jest nor exaggeration

The Chapter Master and her personal guard are drakeriders

[verbal ermine]

ohh so like the Rough Riders but cooler

[untold swallow]

I'm being very self-indulgent lol

I mean less that more dragon knights but sure lol

[verbal ermine]

yeee

[untold swallow]

Also I like them having an adversarial relationship with the Inquisition

Cuz they intended to make the Maiden World their homeworld

But in exchange for not being named heretics they had to publicly give up the scrimshaw stuff and not make it their homeworld

[pulsar holly]

Their melanchromic organ doesn’t work right, and thanks to that and the radiation of Nocturne they wind up with the skin they have, and red eyes.
They have no clue which organ is causing the infrared vision, greater tolerance to extreme temperatures, and higher level of cellular regeneration

[thin ibex]

do yall think vect measures up to someone like abaddon in terms of raw capability or is he ultimately weaker in a direct manner but much more scheming?

[upper canopy]

Abbadon would fucking fold Vect into a basketball and throw him through a hoop

[alpine quarry]

probably yea

[wintry mist]

he wouldn't

(he would trip as he goes to ball and then go home)

only to try again 12 more times

[alpine quarry]

vects whole deal is that hes a master manipulator not exactly the strongest ever drukhari warrior

[thin ibex]

i feel like vects shtick, ultimately, is always being hte guy with a plan and a gimmick

and like 11 other plans at the same time

[tired cairn]

Abaddon doesn't need Strategems to win his duels and so would easily beat Vect on a point-per-point basis

[naive abyss]

cat

I'm hoping it's related to neferata since the lahmians often had cat familiars

And I'm fond of lahmians for being "totally not being angry undead lesbians tm"

[pulsar cairn]

the kot

[untold swallow]

question

is the Emp's flagship being named Bucephalus meant to possibly suggest he's Alexander?

Since he also did the same thing Alexander did, i.e. expand way too fast and have his empire fracture post-'death'?

[south axle]

Wouldn't be suprised by it

[thin ibex]

I imagine it's meant to let you use that interpretation rather

With the wider implication being that he has been many historical figures

[upper canopy]

Basically confirmed that he was Alex in End and the Death

[untold swallow]

lol

fuckin nerd

Where's that efficient Persian administration style you aped so much you hack mofo

[floral herald]

He’s pretty much directly implied to have literally been Alexander the Great in the death and the end part 1

Oh missed that

It’s very funny to imagine him liking the horse so much he named a ship for it tens of thousands of years later

[untold swallow]

It's sentimental in a way I can appreciate

But also

bro you repeated your literal same mistake

Also I'm debating what kind of helmets my chapter has

do Primaris have beakies at all?

[floral herald]

They don’t use mk6 but it looks like MkX is backwards compatible based on Sternguard sculpts

So it might not be impossible to put an Mk6 helmet on on MkX armor

[tired cairn]

Is the Emperor someone who learns from his mistakes?

[untold swallow]

sigh

No

[tired cairn]

"History repeats itself. But only because the Emperor never learns"

[untold swallow]

yesterday we were talking about the possibility of Khornate eldar as the antagonist for my chapter

However I've realized that I can just

make a khornate splinter of traitors of the chapter

Who entered a dark pact with Khorne so they might summon demons as a weapon that, even when felled, denied the tyranids more biomass

[slim prawn]

oh metal

[bold halo]

man apparently I need to find the shadow spectres I bought like 15 years ago, they look really good atm

[thin ibex]

Gonna try making a more traditional infantry focused firm tau gunline list or two

[bold halo]

hearing from my brother as he gears up back into the game with me that tau infantry are really good atm

he's stoked to relive fish of fury

[thin ibex]

They're, I think, pretty decent, but most tau meta strats are big into crisis or hammerheads

But I think they're otherwise perfectly decent

Breachers do make a common appearance too

[bold halo]

yeah as good as their infantry are, cyclic ion blaster is better

hammerheads make sense when the dominant tourney list is 2x wraithknight

[untold swallow]

Do I make my chapter of psyker marines hate tyranids so much they go towards the Shadow in the Warp if they detect it...

[thin ibex]

Boom. Almost wanted to bring tidewalls for the hell of it lol

The riptides and aunva sit directly in front to be charge blockers

And otherwise it's big castle time

With the crisis and vespid existing to capitalize on objectives that have been shot clear

Honestly this list falls to use the taus pretty impressive mobility, but it's a fun mental thing

[past sphinx]

Didn't ol Alex name a few cities after that horse?

[bold halo]

sometimes you just want to shout STAND AND DELIVER from a click away

impressive mobility is for people with worse guns

[thin ibex]

its so weird but pleasant that riptides are effectively tau tank units, and Aun'va is possibly the weirdest one

purely meant to get shot

and eat damage

[floral herald]

Ok that’s hilarious though

Knowing that he’s a hologram

[thin ibex]

right?

For reference

[floral herald]

The Tau are just like “ok basically everyone in the galaxy loses their shit at the chance to shoot up a revered political leader”

“What if we made a distraction hologram political leader?”

[thin ibex]

native -1 to hit and wound on him, and a 4++, and a once per battle 2++ against attacks from a single source

i do wonder how advanced tau personality engram tech is comparative to other factions

having engrammed Puretide and Aun Va

[floral herald]

“Delightfully Devilish Sey’mor”

[thin ibex]

im also curious as to why the Empire doesn't just have a "died of natural causes" imperial funeral and choose the next supreme ethreal

instead of propping up the already ancient Aun Va

[floral herald]

Honestly that scans less as tank and more as "not even worth shooting at" haha

[thin ibex]

lol well he can't be shot, i think the specific role is a charge block

pop the 2++ in the fight phase

survive annoyingly for a single turn

against important melee units

[floral herald]

Yeah that's fair

[thin ibex]

for 65 points thats a lot of potential value

but also very easy to kill otherwise

if he buys you a turn, then its all gucci

[floral herald]

yeah 65 points for a charge blocker who gives a buff isn't bad

That's sorta what I mean by not worth shooting - I don't really want to waste time attacking that but a charge blocker is a good way to make someone

[thin ibex]

"You must be this tall to get to the soft nougat center of the tau line"

a single turn of survived blocking and falling back (even doing a desperate escape roll), is super worth it with a faction as shooty as the tau

they can then carve up the important melee unit with gunfire

[floral herald]

They pay the fire warriors triple rations (goodtaupoints? How does the Tau economy work anyway?) if they act sad when Robo-Aun'Va gets shot

The Paradox of Duality is actually just the tendency for blades to slip through the hologram unharmed

[thin ibex]

thats better than the old explanation, which wsa like... nothing at all

imagine being the assaulting infantry and swearing hes a hologram, and the hologram telling them that no one will ever believe them

[bold halo]

in a microsoft sam voice

breaking character

[floral herald]

I honestly kind of like the idea that the Tau know Aun'Va is a fake but he's such a useful fake because so many of their enemies are addicted to decapitation strikes

"Oh no I dropped my SUPREME POLITICAL LEADER with ONLY TWO GUARDS whatever shall I doooo?"

[tired cairn]

Oh, maybe they get actually sad when he dies because then the enemy will actually shoot at other people

[bold halo]

oh noooo he's right between your death company and my firing line noooo what will I do

[tired cairn]

Gotta fight harder to make sure that doesn't happen in the first place

[floral herald]

"Remember fire warriors, if they kill Aun'Va, you're next!"

[dense sedge]

So are spearheads the new vanguard boxes?

[jaunty dawn]

posible

[thin ibex]

made a Ulthwe themed list

i think maybe im missing war walkers

but i know they effectively have very few actual aspect warriors

and have a notably more elite guardian core

and also loads of psykers

i could probably have gone a bit easier on the storm guardians to make room for more vehicles

or ditched the wraithguard in favor of vehicles

[bold halo]

I have unearthed the lads

These haven't been touched in >10 years

have some dire avengers I don't necessarily plan to use in mild disrepair and a wraithlord I might try to use in extreme disrepair that I'm kind of excited to do surgery on

and a classic fire prism missing its canopies and base but otherwise in good shape, if dusty

[bold halo]

I love any list running that many warlocks, good job

just need to glue the prism's cannon in place, the little gear assembly inside that's supposed to make it poseable did not survive the last decade so he's a little droopy

the one thing I haven't found yet that I'm sad about is my death jester, one because it's the old metal sculpt and I like it, and two because it's maybe where I peaked as far as painting goes

it'll turn up tho

also three, it looks like a really fantastic little guy running around sniping leaders out of units atm

[bold halo]

FOUND HIM

was in my box of warmahordes for some reason lmao

[upper canopy]

https://i.imgur.com/GPxSD0Y.png

@floral herald You're probably not a word bearer man but I still feel like you'd appreciate this bit

[bold halo]

This guy's in absolute shambles but we can rebuild him

With cooler guns

[floral herald]

I'm fan-obligated to hate on em I think cause I like the Black Legion but that's good stuff

[bold halo]

so not including the dire avengers that don't have arms but yes including the striking scorpions that I should have in like, a week, I have a 800ish point foundation to start on already

it's kind of a mess of units but it is kind of fun that half of it deep strikes or infiltrates

[thin ibex]

nice!

i do wonder what detachments the eldar will get

[bold halo]

super low hanging fruit but I expect we'll get something aspect warrior focused, something jetbikey, obligatory wraithguard theme list

[thin ibex]

yeah im expecting a spirit host, and saimm hann themed one

[bold halo]

oh yeah harlequins aren't their own list any more so maybe one for them

[thin ibex]

oh yeah good point, proll a harlequin themed detach

[upper canopy]

A corsair themed detatchment would be neat

[bold halo]

oh yeah with yriel still kicking around and two kinds of corsair units that'd work

[upper canopy]

oh

Ynnari

easy

[bold halo]

ynnari are a weird one because the optional thing for them that already exists in the index list lets you take 50/50 eldar/dark eldar

just at the cost of not getting the avatar of khaine, phoenix lords, and like one other thing I'm too lazy to double check

there's the option to take corsairs and harlequins in a drukhari list already too

nah ynnari are probably a slam dunk lol

[thin ibex]

Battle Host, Spirit Host, Wild Riders, [Harlequin Name], Ynnari

5 is the current standard on dex release right?

[bold halo]

tyranids have six total, idk if that includes whatever they had as an index before the book because I wasn't paying attention to the game yet

crusher stampede is so bad it's like they have 5 though

[thin ibex]

its definitely lackluster a bit but ive seen it perform nicely in casuals at least

turns out a lot of monsters will get hurt but not die in less focused games

[upper canopy]

everyone has the same amount of detatchments except Marines I think

Marines get more because they're technically like 20 factions

[bold halo]

running a lot of monsters is fine, the detachment falls short compared to the relatively generic invasion fleet tho

[desert jay]

Aren't Word Bearers big team players for team chaos where they send personnel (mostly dark apostles, but still) and support to all the other legions that'll take it?

Also yeah LSM (ISM?) have 11 detachments so far

[floral herald]

I think so?

I know there's something of a rivalry between them because they're the two biggest and most organized traitor legions at this point

But as far as chaos space marine relationships go its relatively civil

[upper canopy]

I think Word Bearers aren't actually all that big but they ARE organized

Their thing is that there's rarely like

"A legion of word bearers attacks you"

[ebon forge]

For what I have seem, CSM biggest weakness is each legion or even individuals go "I can do that better" and them civil war

[upper canopy]

It's more "One Word Bearer turns out to be the warlord behind this heretical uprising"

[ebon forge]

Yeah, they are like preachers, individuals World Bearers go and gather fanatics to make Chaos rituals individually

[long void]

can CSM now run heavy cultist lists?

[desert jay]

I've seen em, ye

[thin ibex]

yeah they can, theres not a lot of variety but you can run a havily cult centric list

[desert jay]

Dark communes and accursed cultists esp seem good from what I've heard

[thin ibex]

yeah dark communes and accursed cultists together make excellent tarpits on objectives

[long void]

nice, that was something I had wanted to see for awhile to represent the non-space-marine element of chaos.

[desert jay]

I always liked the idea of taking the rhino variants CSM has and putting those lil guard tank guys sticking out of them done up like traitor guard

[thin ibex]

if i ever played csm, id play alpha and want to run a lot of cultists

[floral herald]

Word Bearers CSM took worlds with a fairly cultist heavy list recently

[pastel rampart]

What WB have over other legions is all the cults they make and support, in what I assume rival even Alpha Legion in terms of numbers.

[desert jay]

Though there might be 3rd-party models that are straight up cultists to stick in tank hatches

[brittle salmon]

Cultists have honestly been a core part of the CSM meta ever since they became a takeable option

[thin ibex]

yeah thought until relatively speaking recently, its been hard to focus on cultists as csm

rather than just being a good, cheap unit

[bold halo]

they were an option all the way back in third edition, there just weren't any models for them for a long time

[brittle salmon]

Largely due to being cheap objective fodder

[long void]

One of my dream armies is Alpha Legion that's partly imperium and chaos kits.
All the initial deployment is Imperium, and the deep strike units are Chaos.

[upper canopy]

40k really loves cheap objective fodder

[floral herald]

Accursed Cultists tend to be the really good ones because they're cheap and durable

[tired cairn]

How similar sized are rhinos and chimeras?

[thin ibex]

tbh i like any element of hte game that encourages engaging with the infantry baseline

[upper canopy]

Chimeras are larger, inexplicably, I'm fairly certain

[floral herald]

I'm a little bit late but the Word Bearers are pretty large - they just tend to not move as a whole force because of religious stuff and them being one of the less aggressive legions

I think the novels peg the Word Bearers at about 80k marines

And the Black Legion is supposed to be much bigger

Estimates vary but between 400k and 1 mil marines iirc

[upper canopy]

of course the Word Bearers would get pegged...

[pastel rampart]

Word Bearers just have managed to be unified in a way few other legions have

[desert jay]

1 mil marines? Damn

[ebon forge]

More than Iron Warriors?

[thin ibex]

im pretty sure the black legion is bigger than the iron warriors

[ebon forge]

I meant against the World Bearers

[thin ibex]

ohh gotcha

[bright dove]

Iron Warriors have a problem with getting consistent recruits.

[ebon forge]

The Black Legion is without a doubt the biggest Chaos legion by Space Marine numbers

[floral herald]

Oh, IW are I think not well defined but supposedly somewhere in the ballpark of 100-200k

[desert jay]

Like 1 mil is my go-to rough estimate for loyalist marines, a thousand-ish chapters of (nominally) a thousand each

[floral herald]

So bigger than the Word Bearers but smaller than the BL which is just an insanely huge force

If not for them being not well organized they'd be the single biggest fighting force of space marines in the galaxy

[thin ibex]

iirc, until recently, the WE legion was one of hte smallest due to how they just are

[floral herald]

As it stands only the portion within warp-shouting distance of Abaddon can really be considered "organized"

[desert jay]

They should set up a newsletter or something

[ebon forge]

Yeah, the chaos taint kinda make you just
go mad
And want to do your own thing

Ah yes

Chaos Minecraft server

[tired cairn]

Does the BL have relatively low standards for recruitment?

[floral herald]

yes

[desert jay]

Instantly turns into 2b2t

[floral herald]

1. be a space marine
2. be willing to paint your armor black and deface your old insignia with the Eye
3. be willing to listen to Abaddon or the Chosen or their Chosen

[tired cairn]

They must also make a bunch of 1) right?

[floral herald]

yeah

[desert jay]

The "black" part isn't even really mandatory, long as you have the eye somewhere

[bright dove]

In so much that CSM can, yeah.

[tired cairn]

Also, very feudal system they have going there

[ebon forge]

Cropped into mini factions that all hate each other

[floral herald]

most of the chaos legions have actually maintained really robust recruitment which is weird

[tired cairn]

I thought CSM can just do the normal thing to make space marines

[bright dove]

Turns out the Warp does fucky things to gene seed.

[floral herald]

they do yeah

[ebon forge]

World Eaters just use The Tube method

[floral herald]

There's some weird exceptions like the IW but the IW are freaks

When it comes to recruitment

[bright dove]

Iron Warriors also had to steal a metric shitton of geneseed.

[upper canopy]

Turns out the whole "Make the child soldiers kill each other" thing is pretty pointless

[desert jay]

TBH I imagine it's like a crapshoot and sometimes you get ordinary legionairres and sometimes you get the weird fucked up scrunglies

[upper canopy]

Just slap the shit in 'em

[floral herald]

Yeah that's the CSM model

[tired cairn]

They keep the Veteran's of the Long War veterancy by making sure any given squad doesn't get wiped

[floral herald]

involuntary surgery on anyone who vaguely fits the biomarkers

[bright dove]

And if they survive, rad.

[thin ibex]

i dont know how current the lore is but i know historically, yeah teh warp fucked up geneseed so csm had to steal

[floral herald]

the survivors get someone's old power armor and a gun

[thin ibex]

from loyalist chapters

[floral herald]

prove yourself

[upper canopy]

if they don't survive, rad, shove a daemon in them or eat them

[bright dove]

Or throw 'em away and forget about them.

[thin ibex]

in general also, csm are outnumbered by sm right? But have a fairly hefty edge in veterancy?

[ebon forge]

While Night Lords are almost extinct

[brittle salmon]

To be fair I don't even know how canon the ||Daemoncubala|| is anymore, and I'm pretty sure it was one of a kind

[floral herald]

yeah worst case scenario you inscribe wards on them and bam new possessed or really worst case scenario they're an Abaddon's Wet Bar candidate

[ebon forge]

Alpha Legion is in chambles

[floral herald]

afaik its still canon but was basically a 1 off

[bright dove]

It was indeed a one-off.

Honsou is pissed about it still.

[upper canopy]

CSM outnumber loyalist marines but usually not on a theater wide scale and with worse logistics.

[floral herald]

There's more CSM than LSM but its harder for the CSM organizationally to field as many guys at once

[upper canopy]

jinx

[thin ibex]

lol

[upper canopy]

owe me a coke cyan

[thin ibex]

ok gotcha

[floral herald]

oh wow lol

[bright dove]

Unless of course you're the Iron Warriors.

But, you know.

Iron Warriors.

[upper canopy]

Nah even the IW can't get around that

[thin ibex]

is it usually "pure black legion vs sm+guard+supporting elements from various chambers militant"?

[upper canopy]

The IW won't be redeploying resources from another war front on the other side of the galaxy

[wintry mist]

how are there more CSM than LSM

[bright dove]

Most of the time.

[floral herald]

I think some of it is "paradox recruiting"

[thin ibex]

yeah i am a bit confused at that myself, I was always under the impression that CSM are down on the numbers game but winning on the general skill game

[upper canopy]

They're winning more and dying less, they're effectively immortal, and they have WAY lower standards

[desert jay]

Oh, canonically destroyed by Uriel Ventris, yeah that's fair

[thin ibex]

like if the CSM have to steal geneseed cause theirs is fucked, how do they multiply so freely?

[tired cairn]

I feel like that has been retconned?

Or was limited to certain chapters?

[upper canopy]

It's not retconned

it's just a sometime thing

[bright dove]

Part of this is thanks to the Iron Warriors pulling off the biggest heist.

[past sphinx]

Geneseed related crime is high on the lost of csm things

[tired cairn]

Do they steal them and also regenerate their own?

[past sphinx]

And yhe marines malevolent lmao

[upper canopy]

Plus stealing geneseed is like the coolest thing they can do

[pastel rampart]

CSM being larger is due to a combination of "we're veterans of the heresy and been around for 10k years" and "time is just a novel suggestion for the warp"

[bright dove]

And another part of it is thanks to Fabius Bile.

[upper canopy]

ya

[tired cairn]

Ok, that makes sense

[floral herald]

One of the older books had a nice chart for this but its a core of Black Legion with a lot of random warlords who signed on, people from other legions who won't give up their colors, and random freedom fighters and mutant groups who'll sign up with anyone to get the Emperor's boot off their neck

[ebon forge]

Yeah, one of the top authors of the 40k books even said is only a matter of time for Chaos to win

[bright dove]

That might be more up in the air now.

What with the Nids being Nids.

[ebon forge]

Respawning is a OP ability after all

[bright dove]

And also gestures at the Necrons

[tired cairn]

It's only a matter of time when one of numerous factions that are not the Imperium or Eldar, win

[floral herald]

Yeah every faction is "winning"

or moving towards it

[bright dove]

Except for Orks, who are currently in their exact winstate.

[thin ibex]

tbf, we have "It's only a matter of time until the Tyranids win" "As the necrons awaken, they'll outnumber the other factions and win", etc

[ebon forge]

not a lie

That's fair

[thin ibex]

I actually find that Nids seem most poised to "win"

[junior robin]

horrible rpg idea: blades in the dark hack where its csm doing geneseed heists.

[thin ibex]

imo

[ebon forge]

Yeah, i remember some fans saying the Nids are kinda too OP for their own good

[desert jay]

Or you're the GSC who hae a dubious definition of "win"

[floral herald]

Also AIUI Geneseed theft helps with warp-mutation but CSM also value short term gains for the warband and it takes generations to build up a legion the normal way

But if you steal 10,000 geneseeds you can implant them all

make thousands of new warriors who'll all listen you you

No downsides

[bright dove]

Yup

[thin ibex]

if there's one thing I do know, the Tau are not "winning" but they are extremely successful all other things considered

[upper canopy]

The Tau are 100% winning

Every day they expand more and more

They are the ONLY faction in the ascendant, really.

[bright dove]

I will once again point out the Tau haven't had the big factions really care

[desert jay]

And also if you steal enough, second-gen CSM probably has more reliable geneseed than 20th-gen or w/e

[tired cairn]

They really have the first three letters of SMART goals nailed though

[upper canopy]

They fought off entire WAAAGHs and Hive Fleets and Crusades.

[thin ibex]

they had a whole crusade pointed at em! While they didn't resoundingly best the crusade, they acquitted themselves well and the imperium was forced to back the fuck off

[upper canopy]

This meme is dead

[thin ibex]

also they took on a full invasion fleet of the death guard

and won

and farsight scraped a victory by the skin of his teeth against the nids

[bright dove]

There's also mention of CSM chapters mixing geneseed from loyalists with their own to help stabilize.

[desert jay]

"Not big but too hardy to stamp out"

[bright dove]

Not without causing problems that other really scary things would exploit.

[thin ibex]

it was nice in the farsight story that they had him realize they werent going to shoot or stab their way through a hive fleet, and actually put to use the scientific might of the earth caste to come out a winner

[ebon forge]

That's cool

[floral herald]

yeah the Tau have adequately taken on all comers

[bold halo]

it's been a long time since they were the plucky new kid

[tired cairn]

Whoa, solving a problem without shooting or stabbing? You aren't allowed to do that in 40k universe

[thin ibex]

effectively him and the eight held off the might of the invasion fleet while the earth caste crafted a delayed activation virus and then infected themselves with it, knowing that the nids would harvest their biomass

[floral herald]

Like some of the really big factions haven't really looked at them that hard but also like

[thin ibex]

which then killed off the hive fleet in orbit

[brittle salmon]

Yeah the meme of "Tau can't hang with in the big leagues" is well and truly dead

They can

[ebon forge]

Which book was that? Is a good book?

[floral herald]

Abaddon isn't gonna send 300k Legionnaires to squash the blue aliens, and even if he did most of them would probably get distracted setting up his dark imperium on the way

[thin ibex]

lemme dig, but i think this was narrative for psychic awakening stuff

[bright dove]

See, this is what makes that one daemon world story even more insulting.

[thin ibex]

which one?

[bright dove]

Long story short, Tyranids invaded a world held by the Grey Knights, who were basically actively sealing away the daemons that were on it.

[floral herald]

No no like, where's it published?

[ebon forge]

thank!

[upper canopy]

Cyan there's only like two guys that count as "big factions" in that respect

[floral herald]

yes

so the Tau have basically proven themselves haha

[upper canopy]

Ah okay I misread I think

[floral herald]

I think the most impressive Tau thing was not dying out to the hive fleet which went their way

[ebon forge]

Agreed, that's a great feat

Now
Did the Vottann has done anything?

Is kinda disappointing how the faction exist for more than a year and still no books on it

[upper canopy]

I mean the Tau have existed for 20 years and have like

2 books

[bright dove]

6th edition 'Nid Codex.

[thin ibex]

huh i wonder if the farsight nano poison story has been retconned

[upper canopy]

The orks have existed for 40 and have 2 lmao

[ebon forge]

Didn't Farsight had his omnibook?

[tired cairn]

If I was the Earth Caste I would simply not poison myself with the virus. And instead any other living thing on the planet

[floral herald]

What we need is an inexplicable LoV FPS game which goes against a lot of lore norms but is really good at the time so it sticks in people's memory

[upper canopy]

The Eldar have existed for 40 and have 4 :v

[floral herald]

Ah ok I vaguely remember this

[tired cairn]

Though I guess they probably couldn't leave at that point

[thin ibex]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nxkaks/farsight_enclave_beating_a_hive_fleet_with_poison/

Here's an excerpt, but yeah can't seem to find the nano poison last stand

[tired cairn]

What is this a reference to?

[floral herald]

Fire Warrior

[bright dove]

Highlights of the Fall of Shadowbrink include adapting to Nurgle contagions and Tyranids having ichor not blood countering Khornate daemons.

[tired cairn]

Huh, I thought that was considered not good

[wintry mist]

Fire Warrior is not good

[floral herald]

It was 2003 video games weren't good

[wintry mist]

Halo Combat Evolved literally dropped in 2001

[ebon forge]

What you mean 2,
From the top of my head there is the Ghazghkull novels, Warboss, Brutal Kunnin', The beast (kinda counts), Gobbo books and now we are getting a direct sequel of Brutal Kunnin'.

[tired cairn]

This is a very wide spread of review scores lol

[floral herald]

That's actually really funny yeah

[thin ibex]

We have more than 2 books for tau currently

[wintry mist]

Theres multiple farsight books and then some tau proper books

[ebon forge]

Fire Warrior deserves a fan remake

[wintry mist]

Fire Warrior deserves a sequel

[floral herald]

LoV are come to think of it one of the best factions for an XCOMlike

Since they're so resource oriented

[wintry mist]

XCOM-like (og xcom)

honestly I want a proper 40k fps

[ebon forge]

Like the Grey Knights game?

[wintry mist]

space hulk?

[bright dove]

Boltgun

[wintry mist]

OH YEAH

Okay what I mean in more specific terms

[thin ibex]

i want a firewarrior remaster

[wintry mist]

I want a battlefield-style 40k game

[tired cairn]

There was an attempt

Sadly it was bad and died

[wintry mist]

sad

[bright dove]

Space Marine Multiplayer? 😛

[floral herald]

I think that one is a nu-XCOM like but its good

[wintry mist]

Oh yeah Eternal Crusade

that's what it was called

[thin ibex]

i would love a battlefield style game wit ha bunch of factional representation BUT balancing that would be a nightmare

[wintry mist]

Eternal Crusade SUCKED

[thin ibex]

i wanted a planetside-like for warhammer before too

[wintry mist]

planet-side style game with faction rep would be near impossible

[thin ibex]

hey if i can dream, i can dream big

[wintry mist]

honestly it'd be cool to do imperial guard vs traitor guard

and have other units be call ins or whatever

the space marine terminator deep strike kill streak

[thin ibex]

i think for many players they'd begrudge summoning terminators and not playing as the terminator

[floral herald]

Could be special classes or something

Like the goofy armored guys in BF1

[thin ibex]

battlefront might be a better small scale way to approach that yeah, over battlefield

with the special characters being special factional units

[wintry mist]

oh no that's exactly what I mean

you get to play as them for 1 life

[pulsar cairn]

something funny

Lorgar really liked Argel Tal

so he straight up told Kharn that Erebus killed him

[dense sedge]

I’d love a gsc uprising game

[desert jay]

Did a search, looks like Gav Thorpe is writing one

[thin ibex]

planetary annihilation except with like 12 factions and its warhammer

[bold halo]

okay just hit my first real games workshopism that made me feel like I'm really back into warhammer

autarch with wings is one kit

autarch with weapon options is a different kit

[floral herald]

its maddening

[bold halo]

to build an autarch with wings and a reaper launcher is $90 thanks

[floral herald]

I remember it made for a horrible time really early on because they were content locked

And you couldn't cross equipment over between the kits

But I think that's been fixed

[bold halo]

yeah they work cross-kit now

I just have no use for an autarch on foot mini

just ah yes, fusion pistol and sword, the only weapon options this mini needs

[thin ibex]

is it just me or do both the banshee blade and scorpion sowrd seem worse than the glaive

[bold halo]

eh, considering there's no karandras mini atm maybe I use the other body to kitbash one

it comes with mandiblasters

[floral herald]

Oh not a bad idea

[bold halo]

then I buy karandras anyways in a year when he gets a cool new sculpt lol

there's like a marginal argument for the chainsword maybe but given you usually use an autarch wayleaper to like, fly around and assassinate things yeah I think the glaive is a clear winner

like he's primarily a command point battery don't get me wrong

but you want him punchy against hard targets

[pastel rampart]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/376993046908239873/1194029530155847680/eCEkLUH.jpeg?ex=65aedda7&is=659c68a7&hm=fbe9eaa00556946838b9e0c232766ebd5e08bd1204d85e561f0ff0092c43ae18&

[naive abyss]

theres a book in the works. also they keep mentioning them in dexes and have featured in a short story recently. which honestly is more lip service than most xenos generally get lol

[naive abyss]

them ore deathwatch

the fact deatwatch lost out to gk for a marine xcom like is criminal imo

but tbh at this point more than anything i want an official animation featuring the lov

even if its just a hammer and bolter

cuz i just wanna see how they move and shit

which maybe is weird but eh

like to be clear id also love books or games

like theoretically they very briefly featured in an animation for the goff rocker which is ironically also where it was confirmed orks call them stunties

which pleases me

[thin ibex]

tbh the thing i was least enthused about with chaos gate is more nurgle enemies

[naive abyss]

that i also get

but tbh when it comes to 40k im tired of chaos as antagonist

like im aware thats me having been into the setting a long long time talking to an extent but man idk chaos in 40k has gotten to the point its almost boring in allot cases to me

which ill grant is in part my growing fondness for og chaos in part talking

but like i still maintain that darktides base antagonist shouldve been gsc imo

also random but id love a lov like base building game of some kind

itd be cool to see what their buildings and etc look like

[ebon forge]

Oh awesome! Thank you

[desert jay]

Obviously we need more content with Imperium as an antagonist

[naive abyss]

i unironically agree

the two best episodes of hammer and bolter imo do that and its great

though one does sorta undermine it at the last second in a way i get but annoyed me personally

tbh a stealth tactics game ala shado tactics or etc but with gsc would be cool

[brittle salmon]

I recommend Twice-Dead King, then

for Imperium-as-antagonists

[solemn gull]

A book with the imperium as the antagonist and protagonist would be cool. Just so how archaic and labyrinthian it is.

[ebon forge]

Who's the protagonists?

[alpine quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-necron-gif-17816277693703384207

[ebon forge]

That's actually quite interesting, specially since Necrons are usually portrait as stone faced killing machines except in the infinite and the divine

[brittle salmon]

Twice-Dead King is extremely interesting exactly because it's basically the opposite side of the coin from Infinite and the Divine

[naive abyss]

this reminds me that i find it funny that the lovs first like black library appearance is as antagonists to necrons in a short story

[soft willow]

Inept antagonists even.

[naive abyss]

and tbh its a vibe to me if only cuz the kin literally at a point just like try to "just talk" when they realize its likely mutually assure destruction/failure for both parties

[soft willow]

I'm kinda mad about how that one ends.

[naive abyss]

oh are they made inept?

[brittle salmon]

The Necrons still very much have personalities, but where Infinite and the Divine portrays them as ascendant, powerful, an empire in decay but that will rise again - Twice-Dead King shows them as rotting, a dead civilization clinging desperately to lost glory and needing to change

[naive abyss]

i just know about the scene with the irk commander

[soft willow]

Yeah the IRK comes down does a comedy bit then gets one shot.

[naive abyss]

rip i was hoping theyd actually talk

[soft willow]

Sorta a disappointing portrayal.

[naive abyss]

the excerpt for it i saw cuts off before that gibbing bit

so i didnt know that part of the interaction

[soft willow]

Yeah the Necron is just like saying nothing, and the IRK makes more and more concessions then gets wrecked by the necron cryptek.

[ebon forge]

THink it would be a good back to back to Infinite?

[brittle salmon]

Honestly, yes

It'd starkly highlight the differences in portrayal and tone

[naive abyss]

lame

[brittle salmon]

In a good way

[naive abyss]

it shouldve ended with a successful just talk

that wouldve been so interesting and cool conceptually especially with how 40k usually goes

and wouldve really hammered home the lovs vibe of being willing to just talk tm

[soft willow]

Honestly had the IRK been a better negotiator even?

[naive abyss]

glad for the heads up wont buy it now and just enjoy that excerpt in a vacumn tbh

[soft willow]

Or if the negotiations failed and there was even a decent fight on it?

But yeah not good LoV lore.

I was sad since that's basically why I picked up the book.

Instead it's just Necron ship politics a bit I suppose?

Which wasn't awful for that, but won't be hype if you were there for cool dwarf shit.

[naive abyss]

mm mm

if it helps your sacrifice is not in vain you spared a fellow dorf reading it lol

[floral herald]

That’s what I’ve heard it’s a fun short story but it’s a Necron short story feat leagues not really a split

[naive abyss]

tbh i wouldnt mind it being cron first hell id expected that

[soft willow]

That happens to have three Kin in it.

[naive abyss]

but the kin sound like they were done dirty

cuz i could live with the just talk failing cuz its crons so sure yeah

[soft willow]

Yeah it's not that it's a Necron book, it's that the Kin just get thrown under the bus.

[naive abyss]

but like it just sounds like it was played as a joke

like my cynic cant help but feel the emotion of "somebody was salty about the lov when writing it i guess"

[soft willow]

Had just lost a few games to 9th Ed Votann.

[naive abyss]

snrk

[soft willow]

The highlight is the IRK pulling out a Necron translation device that includes flashing LEDs to approximate fake necron glyphs while talking.

Like when they try to greet the aliens in Independance Day, but for 40k.

[naive abyss]

yeah like they actually try

and thats cool

it was both very lov and very dorf

shame its apparently immediately undercut

like i dont even mind that sorta inherent hilarity of the situation

cuz that sorta fits the energy to a degree imo

but it then followed up by just yeeted under a bus is not the vibe lol

[soft willow]

Have a cool boss fight shootout at least.

Don't just immediately wreck your primary antagonist.

[naive abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0MbTy73sxE&t=2s&ab_channel=WatchItPaintIt

[tired cairn]

This would be great. Especially if the protagonist faction is also a member of the Imperium

(though I guess this happens in some of the Dawn of War campaigns)

[untold swallow]

I am once again dropping in with Fun Homebrew Chapter Tidbits

The most notable member of the Ivory Drakes to fall to Chaos is a Khornite Chaos Sorceress

Who summoned a host of demons to combat the Tyranids as part of a bargain

Her head exploded

And now the fireball is her head

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/wokehammer/status/1744121673941418156

[solemn gull]

Hot take, necrons were a lot cooler and scarier when they were a cosmic unknowable force

[thin ibex]

mm, i can appreciate the take, but i disagree

[bold halo]

the redacted field report style codex from 3e was sick but you can only keep that bit up for so long and it doesn't really lend itself to any kind of list building either

[floral herald]

I think the really hot take is that they weren't but the 3e necron codex fucking ruled and that made people think it was

oh lol we said the same thing

[bold halo]

same hat

but yeah I think it was a really cool place to start but 20 years of monoliths and warriors would get reaaaaaally old

[floral herald]

What we need now is a codex which covers the same events both of these ways

(From Emwattnot, who you've probably heard of haha)

[alpine quarry]

Thing is, they still look like a cismic unknowable force to outsiders

[solemn gull]

Not really considering how much the mechanicus knows

[alpine quarry]

Sure they CAN actually talk with you but 90% of the time they literally dont even consider you an insect worthy of being in general line of sight

[alpine quarry]

The average mechanicus still knows nothing

[floral herald]

I don't think even the above average ones really get it either

[solemn gull]

Any explorator team that gets into a tomb is bound to find traces of civilization

[alpine quarry]

Yea???

[thin ibex]

thats what a tomb is kinda entirely on its own

a trace of civilization

[alpine quarry]

Thats not what makes them any less "cosmic horror" imo

[solemn gull]

I think we got different definitions

[alpine quarry]

Especially in lovecraftian sense

[naive abyss]

also they always had the tombs

[alpine quarry]

Lovecraft LOVEED his ruins

[floral herald]

Probably 60% of at the mountains of madness is walking through a tomb looking at historical frescoes yeah

[wintry mist]

the necron warriors still have souls in them right?

[solemn gull]

A bunch of metal skeletons coming out of the ground with no explanation is much spookier

[wintry mist]

or is that not true

[solemn gull]

No

[tired cairn]

Necrons had to fight with Tyranids for the cosmic horror and lost

[wintry mist]

oh so they're just robots?

[naive abyss]

that never was what it was

[floral herald]

I don't think any necrons have souls but the warriors have shitty second rate personality engrams

[solemn gull]

Their souls got eaten

[naive abyss]

the tombs always were a thing lol

[naive abyss]

no cuz the soul and one sself are distinct sorta

[thin ibex]

Necrons collectively do not have souls because the ctan ate them and the silent king traded their souls and bodies for their living metal bodies

[solemn gull]

The old ones aren’t the horror in that story

[naive abyss]

though most low level crons are basically robots yes

[solemn gull]

Or ancient ones

[alpine quarry]

Irc none of the necrobs has souls

They have engrams, which are like
copies of their minds before biotransferance
Necron warriors are basically just robots tho

[solemn gull]

Whatever the starfish aliens were called

[thin ibex]

the less important the necrons the more automaton like they are, and hte higher their station the more their personality and self is preserved

which is why you get such eccentric lords and overlords

[alpine quarry]

Except they are too??

[naive abyss]

they are literally part of the horror what do you mean lol

[solemn gull]

Not the great old ones

[floral herald]

(And this is partially intentionally because the Necrons baked the inequalities of their society into the biotransference stuff so the lower classes were made that permanently)

[solemn gull]

Like new necrons are cool just I feel they lost their horror edge

[alpine quarry]

Its important to note that a very cool aspect of their characterization is that they are simulations of self
They kinda
Cant really grow, as characters

They can change but their brains resist that very hard

[floral herald]

I think that's true since we have a lot more insight into them now

[solemn gull]

When you know they are having inner monologues of civil drama

[wintry mist]

I think necrons by and large are yeah not scary

[floral herald]

But I also think that's important for the people who are collecting and playing them

[solemn gull]

I miss spooky metal skeletons

[floral herald]

You kind of only get 1 faction per setting who gets a wholly external POV on them

[naive abyss]

they still are that lol

[wintry mist]

eh not really

they're not spooky anymore

[naive abyss]

like the only real difference is that some of the head honcho skeletons can be sassy if they want

[wintry mist]

they're just funny little skeleton men

[naive abyss]

they really arent

[floral herald]

(the necrons were also lowkey always like their current form since they also had really chatty lords way back when, just not in the codex)

[naive abyss]

like the warriors are actively spookier than they use to be in terms of modeling

[wintry mist]

necrons are hilarious

[solemn gull]

They say “By jove, someone took my favourite gauss blaster”

[naive abyss]

some do

not even all lords do that

and warriors absolutely dont

[alpine quarry]

Referencing a thread a bit deeper in this forum, thats like saying that Stygia in wraith the oblivion is less scary than a ghost going OOOOH and making a painting fly

[thin ibex]

like i mentioned, I can appreciate the take, but i disagree; I think the current necron state is more engaging, and is fully capable of engaging with the horror facet of their theming without it being the sole theme they posess

[naive abyss]

hell some lords just screech inchoherently cuz theyve gone insane

the new crons just have more variety

[bright dove]

I dislike the de-toothing of the C'Tan.

[naive abyss]

like old crons still exist

i ironically like the new version of ctan cuz it feels more eldritch

instead of yet another set of gods tm

[thin ibex]

I think it was decided early on that Ctan left as is as whole and unbroken introduces a power scaling that didn't fit well into things, if i had to hazard

[solemn gull]

I’ve moved on to making the hive fleets my horror antagonists

[alpine quarry]

Tbh ctan before that didnt even feel like gods to me, just like
Evil dudes

[pulsar cairn]

what do you mean evil

[floral herald]

Frankly the new scale makes waaaaaay more sense for people who you can actually field

[pulsar cairn]

what's wrong with the TRUSTworthy

[thin ibex]

cause like... if the nightbringer was just the og nightbringer, without any big sundering, there isn't an entity in the current game that could put out, including primarchs and so on

[floral herald]

It's like if you could take Khorne and he was an 888 point model someone could shoot with volcano cannons

[solemn gull]

Ikr the Sata- I mean C’tan are soooo nice

[alpine quarry]

Destroyer cultists are many-eyes many-limbed mechanical abominations obsessed with atomizing any form of life and constant improvement at that

Id say they are scarier than nids in many cases

[thin ibex]

OG/Lore nightbringer unsundered would dogwalk armies at every scale by himself, pretty much

[floral herald]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deus_ex_Mechanicus_(Short_Story)

[naive abyss]

also the crons beating them somehow is just cool

and tbh is way more eldritch to me

[thin ibex]

i love necron lore being about them killing their gods as their final act

in the pre-history

[floral herald]

This short story is I think the first example of a chatty necron lord and was published in 2002, the same year as the 3e necron book

[naive abyss]

cuz its aggressively not explained which is cool

[alpine quarry]

It also adds to the eldritch factor imo

[floral herald]

I think it might actually be one of the first fiction pieces for the Necrons

[naive abyss]

agreed

[thin ibex]

well, we're given some clues, like their use of mega super weapons, possibly the blackstone fortresses and others that the silent king has erased from necron memory and sealed away

[naive abyss]

thats not explanations

thats vagueries to give it some intrigue lol

[floral herald]

I don't think the necrons made the blackstone fortresses

[alpine quarry]

Like imo ctan dying improves the horror of both necrons AND ctan

[naive abyss]

they didnt theyre very much not cron tech imo

[alpine quarry]

Because ctan ARENT dead, they are just broken.

[naive abyss]

theyre likely vaul eldar tech

[alpine quarry]

Despite all the attempts of necrons

[wintry mist]

I think the main thing with necrons having too much personality is like, imagine if we got a cthulhu book and it was about him running R'lyeh. Like yeah Cthulhu is still a giant squid man but he's way more human and knowable with that in mind

[thin ibex]

there's kind of some pre-history implications and (what i see as) intentional conflicts about who created the blackstone fortresses

with the aeldari saying vaul made them

[naive abyss]

but the crons arent cthulhu

[alpine quarry]

And yet necrons were strong enough to shatter physical concepts

[naive abyss]

like by design they arent that function theyre a weird elder race that broke their cthulhus

and sometimes are sassy

again not all of them are like that

[alpine quarry]

Necrons are closer to lengians and mi go if you want to go that route

[naive abyss]

hell my dynasty is aggressively weirdo eldritch insane cultist dynasty

[alpine quarry]

Cosmic horror, but different kind

[naive abyss]

with it just be 40kified lady black pharaoh as the leader

[thin ibex]

incidentally hte lexicanum mentions that the eldar created the blackstone forts, but i also think that they really do not look like aeldari constructions. I actively wonder if theres a lot more to em than that

[naive abyss]

i mean its vague

[pulsar holly]

I still need to read both of the Twice-Dead King necron novels, and The Infinite and Divine novel.

[naive abyss]

also ancient eldar tech is way different

like theyr specifically thought to be the forge gods work

[thin ibex]

like you get the pyramid structure and then you get the big aeldari like teardrop on em

[naive abyss]

which we have very few examples of

[thin ibex]

so I wonder if there was like, at the end, aeldari participation in the big bombad betrayal of the ctan

[alpine quarry]

My guys are just maynarkhs
Every respectable noble needs a couturier

[wintry mist]

I was going to say the Eldar have existed for millions of years

They have probably had a wide variety of architectural styles

And design aesthetics

[floral herald]

this is pretty old now but codex necrons 3e says the eldar made the Blackstone fortresses

Though, I think this was written for metaplot which was later never done

Cause Mr. Deceiver died in 5e

[thin ibex]

thats consistent with the lexicanum too, as mentioned

i always figured the deciever might be less sundered than the rest of the ctan, and is kinda just in the background, vibing and decieving

sharing narrative space with the changeling, or even playing spy games with the changeling

[pulsar holly]

Is the Void Dragon C'tan still tied to the Mechanicus?

[floral herald]

a piece of it is at least

All that's really changed is that the c'tan are broken into shards and don't rule the necrons

They're still around doing most of their narrative functions

[wintry mist]

I used to not like the fact that the Mechanicus is right

[thin ibex]

iirc the nightbringer shard unleashed by uriel really is just out and about

uncontained

[wintry mist]

There really are funny little guys in your wrench

[floral herald]

I think the only C'tan who's still intact is the Outsider for whatever value of "Intact" there is

I don't think they are

[wintry mist]

But when I decided that 40k is actually just a fantasy setting with lasers and robots it's grown on me

[floral herald]

Like there's some technology which really has a machine spirit because its got like primitive AI, and some which has a spirit in the warp because of being soaked in warp energy or terrible purpose

[thin ibex]

i dont think 40k has ever really been hard sf, like even pre 1st edition

[floral herald]

But the mechanicus are cargo cultists who assume everything does

[thin ibex]

40k and rogue trader has long been a vibes first environment

[floral herald]

They're at best a broken clock who's right 3 times a day

[unreal cosmos]

that's At The Mountains of Madness

[wintry mist]

I think questioning whether your setting has funny spirits in the technology sends it thoroughly past hard sf territory

[unreal cosmos]

Hard Sci-Fi doesn't exist 😎