Always wanted to do a full mega campaign where the group goes from scouts to chapter command
#Warhammer and Such
solemn gull
floral herald
It's probably easier to do T3 from not-deathwatch
Since veteran space marines aren't super T3-y
Scouts can be T2
And are still pretty badass but with room for upward growth
thin ibex
it has a system for generating homebrew space marine chapters right?
upper canopy
it has a system for generating homebrew space marine chapters right?
Basically chapters only really matter in terms of like a small bonus you get
So there's no real mechanics for granularly building up a chapter
thin ibex
so full flavor
floral herald
Yeah your chapter gives like 1-2 bonuses
wintry mist
holy shit this looks really cool
solemn gull
You could make some pretty busted builds with that chapter supplement
upper canopy
ty I did this in like a week while possessed by an unholy fervor
solemn gull
I remember a particular one being a apothecary that can run 300km/h
floral herald
It's relatively quick since its only 100 XP a tier
I forget the exact session count but we started at T4 and actually ran out of advancement by the end of the short campaign I ran
solemn gull
In that case maybe I should do a full T1 to T4
Start them off going through the chapter tests
floral herald
hmm
That actually sounds neat yeah
The rules don't really support changing from human to space marine but its not that hard to work around
solemn gull
Probably just boost their stats
Would be cool to get to hop around fighting everything under the sun as they rise in the ranks
Also might be a good way to get friends into the game
T1- training and challenges to learn the rules
T2- Scouts focused more on exploration and skills
T3- Some sort of combat gauntlet
T4- All the toys
thin ibex
how long was your short campaign?
upper canopy
7 months?
brittle salmon
Due to a lot of circumstances
dense sedge
What happens if a genestealer is selected as a space marine or receives a genestealers kiss?
upper canopy
The former, we don't know
The second, probably nothing
they've already got the genestealer DNA
pastel rampart
If you mean "what if a human who's been genestealer kiss'd becomes a space marine," they probably wouldn't survive the screening process. They're held to high and exacting standards and root out any notable mutations beforehand.
solemn gull
and a space marine actually can't get infected
upper canopy
Plus space marines don't know what sex is
solemn gull
their bodies are immune to it
pastel rampart
They can get infected, just that they can resist the psychic call.
The psychic control of the Genestealer's Kiss can be resisted by Space Marines, as seen with members of the Scythes of the Emperor. However even they wear psychic dampening hoods to keep out the Hive Mind's urgings.
soft willow
In the case of the Scythes the cult had taken over the chapter serfs and they were making Space Marines from infected humans.
So they didn’t get kissed directly, but still felt the influence after becoming Space Marines, at least if i recall the book correctly.
It’s in one of Cawl’s books.
upper canopy
That seems really dumb
pastel rampart
The cult was after Sotha, I think.
upper canopy
it's not like Space Marines are more psychic than the average person
bright dove
But they are better than the average person.
upper canopy
EH
bright dove
I don't think we can dispute that Space Marines are made to be better than a baseline human.
quaint compass
Or at least, more actively ignorant
bright dove
Also true.
pastel rampart
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Scythes_of_the_Emperor Sotha fell before the Indomitus Crusade, but it wasn't enough time for the Scythes to fully rebuild; but also, all the remaining Firstborn died anyway so it's a bit of a moot point.
bright dove
Now, that shouldn't give them a free pass to not get Hive Minded.
But I can buy them being actively resistant.
upper canopy
It feels like a weird power level thing
"Clearly this space marine possesses Emperor Haki"
pastel rampart
Marines are genetically manipulated as it is, so I'd imagine the kiss just doesn't really have the room or power to do much.
bright dove
And Resistance =/= immunity.
bright dove
See the fact that they're wearing psychic-dampening hoods.
pastel rampart
Yeah. They're not immune, but won't become slavish devotees to the hive mind and the patriarch.
Putting on psychic-dampening hoods is a "let's make sure" move.
bright dove
And an expensive one at that.
pastel rampart
Yeah but by the time they booked it out of Sotha there was maybe 200 left, so it wasn't as if they had to retrofit an entire chapter.
I'd also imagine dampening hoods are standard gear for most chapters, if not always employed. Plenty of psykers and daemons and aliens about not to have a cache of those stored away somewhere.
wintry mist
what would a radical, inqusition-alligned imperial gang be called...
I'm thinking of the Golden Hands
wintry mist
thats a cool one
past sphinx
My players have named their Rogue Trader vessel "The-stars-deliver-forth-a-stormbeast"
im proud of them for hiphenating it
dense sedge
Mine in rogue trader was the golden ossuary
upper canopy
Ours was the Great Shazboat
cunning lintel
Iirc ours was the "Subprime Derivative"
dense sedge
Well the game not the ttrpg
alpine quarry
Exodite worlds are pretty fine most of the time
upper canopy
Regular Craftworlds are great most of the time
alpine quarry
Yea but atwcat said that its great for the eldar on the craftworlds, while other species might not have that great of a time
Thing with exodites tho is that we have canon examples of multispecies planets being good places, although it prolly varies a ton
But imo it varies with everything
There are probably racist exodites
There are even generally good places in the imperium
solemn gull
Also on the infected marine thing
Those are already fully infected humans before becoming a marine
Pretty sure a standard astartes getting the bite would have it work it’s way out after a while
Source: a random White Dwarf I found in my cousin’s closet
bitter mortar
There are probably racist exodites
There are even generally good places in the i...
Garden Worlds don't seem too bad
but really depends where you on socially
I'd still rather work horrible hospitality / entertainment work on a beautiful looking planet than what Hive or Forge worlders have to deal with
solemn gull
Hive worlds are probably fine-ish by 40k standards considering in books they have diners and the like
Forge worlds though would be victorian nightmares
runic swallow
It highly, highly depends on your level in the hive
bitter mortar
one of the tabletops mentioned most hivers living and dying in "the same few square kilometers" of where they were born
thin ibex
a lot depends on where you're/who you're born to, and by percentage/volume, youre gonna have a generally bad time
not like underhive bad
solemn gull
I don't doubt that but even at the lowest social caste you still have the ability to go off and join a mold farming commune living in a dead-zone
thin ibex
but still bad
uneven ember
I always figured Hive City demographics to be, like
Most people work a mundane job for just over starvation wages until their hand gets caught in something
solemn gull
yeah but also things can only be so miserable before people would either rebel or kill themselves. I would like to think there is a bearable living situation where people can exist.
It sucks but most of the awful jobs are done by servitors (it's own fucked up situation)
past sphinx
Necromunda, despite it all doesnt seem like a totally horrific place to be
12 hour shifts and no vacations and you are owned by a guild
like the moment you become a corpse your body is owned by the corpse guild
but there is culture and food and music
hell even a democracy in one hive
Tennous and the other hives hate their guts but they meet their qoutas
uneven ember
I mean, my whole "hive cities are mostly laborers working to death in nightmarishly unsafe factories" SFF dystopia is pretty much "the Gilded Age, but more of it, with skulls on everything."
solemn gull
that's Forge worlds
thin ibex
i think also it may be worth mentioning that rebellions consistently happen
and the arbites and sometimes the pdf do put down the rebellions with military force
solemn gull
Hive worlds form when all industry and resources are sucked from a planet
thin ibex
its why the arbites consider a heavy machinegun and bolters and so on as a normal part of their kit for dealing with civilians
and thair precinct's are effectively fortresses
thin ibex
Anyone got a late night army list theme to throw at me?
bright dove
Anyone got a late night army list theme to throw at me?
Ogor Mawtribes?
bright dove
That I don't have in mind. Perhaps cook up something meant to do as much ranged as possible?
Because there are some fun tricks for that in Ogors.
thin ibex
Ogor Mawtribes?
bright dove
Nice.
Those Leadbelchers with the Undergut thing have a nice Rend -2 ranged attack that gets a good number of shots off.
The Maneater Pistols are also doing good work.
jaunty dawn
forge worlds are like. pretty much all also hive worlds
cause the distinction is who owns the planet more than anything else
jaunty dawn
much like knight worlds are pretty much all feudal agri world type things
wintry mist
really excited to showcase 10,000 years of generational trauma in my campaign
and how the Imperial refugees are trying to break that cycle of cultural authoritarianism and meekness
upper canopy
please do add the funny orangutan
wintry mist
YES
wintry mist
and how the Imperial refugees are trying to break that cycle of cultural authori...
I had the idea of just this... nagging, subconscious fear in the human PCs about the idea of disobeying authority. Not something they have to follow through with, but a reminder of the horrors of the Imperium
just this like "You feel compelled to _ _ _ (bow, salute, etc)" whenever someone really important is around
solemn gull
Thats pretty cool
Maybe some sort of debuff for adventuring when they should be at a prayer
wintry mist
that'd be cool too
Also had the idea of various cultural movements. Imperial returnists, but also Liberation Theologists who are still like, humancentric but believe that you can only serve the emperor by helping other people and the Imperium does not do that
and a sort of "New Soviet Man" type beat perpetuated by the government that is all about work, family and community being the highest virtues rather than zealotry and hate. Not exactly progressive by our standards but way better than whatever it is the Imperium likes to push
pulsar cairn
they feel scared without prayer 
solemn gull
Sounds pretty grounded
wintry mist
W&G
wintry mist
The players are all members of various factions on Gue'vesa'rio investigating the sudden rise in Imperial Cultism, gang violence and anti-enclave activity. Attacks on Fire Warrior convoys, murder of civilians and Imperium agitprop. Each PC will have their own reason to investigate pertaining to themselves or the group they're loyal to, joining forces for the sake of convenience.
wintry mist
A big part of Gue'vesa'rio is that it is kind of lawless outside of the directly controlled Farsight areas around the starport. It does have a human government but it struggles to get anything done and is bloated with corruption and failure to act (which doesn't really earn them any favours from the Imperial Citizens fleeing that exact issue) so various factions enforce their own will on the planet, and as far as the Enclaves are concerned: humans cant really give them much except manpower, so as long as they keep sending auxillaries they don't care.
thin ibex
vanguard kill team?
jaunty dawn
combat patrol
jaunty dawn
doesn't look like it's getting reboxed no
modern sculpts on square bases kinda hurts my brain haha need to rewire that
wonder how long it'll take before they start selling other old world stuff. will the older stuff not get released till that faction gets new models? :T
just wanna buy wood elves for bits haha
solemn gull
The players are all members of various factions on Gue'vesa'rio investigating th...
oh wow that's a really unique campaign
wintry mist
I mean when you think about it it's just a Dark Heresy campaign but you're hunting Imperial Cultists instead of being one
pulsar cairn
i'll take that over fighting Orks any day of the week
specially when you consider how often farsight deals with them
wintry mist
oh yeah I plan on just having Orks show up sometimes I think
thin ibex
farsight and orks, a combination that would make a dawi proud
i feel like thats like a great common ground for the enclaves and potential LoV trade partners
wintry mist
aren't they on other sides of the galaxy
thin ibex
relatively speaking yeah, but LoV are working on expanding, and already trade with the Tau Empire
pulsar cairn
the LoV have a passionate hate towards the orks .w. they killed a votann that one time...
thin ibex
and they certainly wouldn't have and specific loyalty to solely the Tau Empire
wintry mist
I wont lie I know nothing about the LoV except the most basic information
I feel like they stealth dropped them and now suddenly there are super advanced space dwarves in 40k and like I fuck with it but it came out of left field for me
bright dove
Well, they did come out of the part of the Galaxy that's next to impossible to look into anyways.
pulsar cairn
their tech comes from ancient humanity too which i find it to be really really cool
they been there a long long while
wintry mist
I feel like they were something no one asked for except to bring squats back
I was hoping for like an imperial guard squat unit or smthn
definitely energy that could have gone into revamping some factions that really need the love
pulsar cairn
idk, i really like them as a faction
wintry mist
they're cool but I dunno how they really fit into the story but also I think people said the exact same thing about the Tau
so I am hopeful
upper canopy
I wont lie I know nothing about the LoV except the most basic information
There's not a ton except the basic information
pulsar cairn
orks call them stunties 
thin ibex
the main reason they're pushing out now iirc coincides with the creation of hte cicatrix maledictum
bright dove
Poking their heads out because some weird shit started happening with the neighbors.
wintry mist
holy shit farsight SoB art
upper canopy
It's more poking their heads out because their ancestral homelands have been destroyed by The Big Hellhole
floral herald
aren't they on other sides of the galaxy
They’re mostly in the galactic core but show up everywhere
solemn gull
Are they not abhumans?
upper canopy
They are
solemn gull
Oh so just straight up squats V2
upper canopy
Yes they are the same creatures as the squats
thin ibex
yeah, they just had fresh lore and aesthetic set up, i forget if the current lore makes any attempt to explain old lore, but i suspect not
solemn gull
Yeah I thought the squats got wiped out by tyranids
jaunty dawn
one of the votanns was taken out by tyranids
pastel rampart
Which is I think a means for GW to go "yeah that's what the imperium thought was just all the squats but it was just a small fraction of the LoV."
jaunty dawn
so from the imperium's perspective the entire civilisation was wiped out
but now that the cicatrix has fucked up the galactic core where imperium doesn't really go
kin encounters are more widespread again as they leave it
thin ibex
iirc, LoV are, comparatively, a rather small empire in the grand scheme of things BUT are still much larger than the Tau Empire
soft willow
so from the imperium's perspective the entire civilisation was wiped out
There's some fluff in the codex about them avoiding the imperium as well.
So they kinda want to keep it that way and just can't anymore.
wintry mist
I'm tryna think of some cool names to give a city on Gue'vesa'rio...
I'm thinking something like Little Cadia
unreal cosmos
I feel like they were something no one asked for except to bring squats back
In a roundabout way they do fill the vital niche of a human offshoot that isn't Imperium or Chaos
wintry mist
hmmm u right
unreal cosmos
I'm thinking something like Little Cadia
Cadian diaspora sounds like a very rich angle to explore
jaunty dawn
daot remnants is a thing some people are interested in
especially cause heresy has like explored in that in militia
wintry mist
Yeah the founding of Gue'vesa'rio I am dropping is that it started with Cadians in a Rogue Trader's fleet submitting to the Farsight Enclaves (Alongside the rest of the fleet)
mental birch
jaunty dawn
ooooooh
mental birch
vroom vroom sounds
wintry mist
the ships of the fleet were either dismantled or studied by the Earth Caste. Those that got dismantled turned into the bedrock of the various cities on Gue'vesa'rio, and Imperial Architecture is so prevalent because they use imperial pre-fabs from the fleet, giving the place an imperial-t'au look to it.
pulsar cairn
these are the explorers right?
soft willow
Or at least the most prolific explorers.
solemn gull
the ships of the fleet were either dismantled or studied by the Earth Caste. Tho...
You better keep us all updated on this campaign
Sounds like it will have a good story
pulsar cairn
ans add funny orangutan 
pastel rampart
"WE MUST CAPTURE THE THROW PILLOW, BROTHERS"
wintry mist
oh yeah I forgot to mention that there are native Exodite Eldar on the planet
who were pretty chill with Farsight going "okay... we friends?"
wintry mist
Essentially the Enclave and Humans have a three-way treaty with the Exodites, stating that the World Shrines are protected by a small contingent of Fire Warriors (alongside the Exodites that are already protecting it) and that humans cannot settle in certain areas (roughly a 100km area around each World Shrine). They haven't really interacted with anyone since they split off from the Eldar and so when the T'au came the only thing they really know is from myth and legend as well as what the Tau tell them.
Obviously "Look, we hate to be a bother but we are desperately fighting for our survival and really need your planets resources. Coincidentally, if you dont let us they'll also probably kill you too." and being completely sincere about it is a good cause for the Eldar to go "sure man take what you need."
my friend who wants to be an exodite eldar just went "I JUST REALISED THEY'RE JUST WOOD ELVES"
thin ibex
i think the whole reason wood elves exist is kind of to play into the 3 elf type thing
solemn gull
Essentially the Enclave and Humans have a three-way treaty with the Exodites, st...
This seems like a really good place to live, which is a bad omen in 40k
proud wing
i think the whole reason wood elves exist is kind of to play into the 3 elf type...
wood elves, sexy elves, and Christmas elves
solemn gull
Hippy elves, blunt elves, fetish elves
wintry mist
This seems like a really good place to live, which is a bad omen in 40k
it is better than the Imperium
but if you're a human it's probably not really like, great
solemn gull
Oh is it not good?
proud wing
it is high time for GW to stop being cowards and make an official dinosaur faction
pulsar cairn
space lizard man
i think the are pretty cool actually
the big frogs they got remind me of the old ones a bit
thin ibex
kroot are effectively dinosaurs
we used to have a greater gnarloc too
which was t-rex pilled
wintry mist
Oh is it not good?
by and large the place is just really impoverished due to a lack of industry, and the Farsight Enclaves has, to them, more important things to do than to devote resources into building up the human economy. And it creates a really "neat" feedback loop: promises benefits for enlisting as an auxillary, and they'll keep enlisting to get those benefits that they cant get at home.
The government itself is descended from a rogue trader and her close associates so by and large it's mostly full of people trying to line their own pockets. Imperial culture is just sort of like that and it's going to take considerable effort to deprogram a lot of people, something the government wont spare, and the Enclaves cant spare.
solemn gull
Got it, small slice of normal imperium jammed into the tau society
wintry mist
yeah
it's still better than them actively pushing the imperial cult down every citizen's throat
and working them to death for a tithe
but it's still not great
thin ibex
my homebrew tau sept actually plays a bit with the idea of human/tau melting pot situation
pulsar cairn
i like the monkey kroot with the emplacement gun
wintry mist
I like that
In my instance it's not much of a melting pot, the T'au stick primarily to the Starport and act largely as a garrison and administrative force
thin ibex
set on a hive world that already surrendered and is in the middle of the long process of integration, with the Tau Empire's earth caste engineers attempting to convert/use the hive's existing infrastructure and adapt it to meet Tau standards. My commander is originally a Sa'cea sept commander who is now, effectively, in charge of the ongoing police and suppression work while the conversion goes on; and he works daily with humans working in tandem with Tau patrols and so on
quality of life is generally improving across the board, but there's still a hell of a lot of friction, and there are isses with imperial cult insurgents, chaos cult insurgents, possible early stages of genestealer cult infestation, orkoid infestation at the lowest levels, etc
so my commander is pushing Sa'cea's urban warfare specialization hard, into a more specific Hive warfare specialization
thin ibex
part of me likes to think that the whole situation grates on the commander, in that the war was won, the enemy had surrendered, yet somehow he and his coalition are still here
he would very much prefer to be on to the next expansion conquest
but he's got a job to do
thin ibex
xD
spice flicker
Do we know the population of Cadia before it fell or most fortress worlds?
runic swallow
I think cadia is a weird case, since they have a much larger diaspora population than population on the actual planet, due to how many people they ship off in the guard
I’m reminded of the Garth Mehrengi “I’m the only author that’s written more books than he’s read” but it’s “I’m the only planet with more off-world citizens than on”
thin ibex
i have to imagine, with Catachan's population attrition rates, that catachan has more catachan's off-world than on
floral herald
Do we know the population of Cadia before it fell or most fortress worlds?
Like 350 mil iirc
Comically low like most 40K numbers
thin ibex
warhammer numbers, especially at a macro, are generally kinda wack
on a spectrum of generally being too small lol
ebon forge
How do you think the chaos MEAT tastes like?
tired cairn
From elsewhere:
My personal favorite pet theory is that the 40k galaxy is in a constant state of war because it's exactly what the Orks want, and their collective ability to warp reality has made it so.
thin ibex
lol
Ork ability to alter reality i think is grossly overstated by the fandom, but it IS funny
upper canopy
In this case the ork ability to alter reality is not actually real it's just "The orks go out and cause endless war"
thin ibex
yeah i think its probably less bending the galaxy to war and rather, literally going places and punching people in the face constantly
thin ibex
getting chopped by an ork axe
"My god, the accumulated Waaagh!!! energy in this region of space its... its... making me want to fight back!"
floral herald
From elsewhere:
> My personal favorite pet theory is that the 40k galaxy is in ...
This sounds all fancy and psychic but it really is just the collective will of 100 trillion yelling boyz with axes making it so
tired cairn
Haha, yeah
glossy vapor
are there chaos cultist aeldari out there? or chaos kin?
just thinking about chao's position as the supposed ultimate big bad, because of how, if given the opportunity, will corrupt and spread like a plague, but as far as i remember that really only applies to humans or smaller side groups like the laer.
but i guess you could argue that dhrukari are in a way servants of slaanesh, just they are knowingly forced into it rather than manipulated into it.
edit, i do know that farsight is in the grips of khorne, but hasnt fallen yet.
tired cairn
I suspect they get their souls ate by Slanaash too fast to be cultists
And the other gods probably don't often interfere with Slanaash's claim to elder souls
obsidian flume
soft willow
Chaos kin are implied but not explicitly called out yet.
But we know Votann AI's have been lost to Chaos.
soft willow
I mean it's a dreadnaught at that point, and those are great.
thin ibex
it has slight differences!
and i do mean slight
but the antennae, the heavy bolter pistol
the twin stubbers
they do end up communicating a nice visual difference
floral herald
Wow yeah a full enclosure really does elevate that model
I think the roll cage just looks kind of silly
soft willow
If you showed me this model and told me Cawl made a new kind of Dreadnaught I would be like yeah okay.
It does look better without the roll cage for sure.
thin ibex
the heavy bolter pistol remains the correct amount of goofy to me
glossy vapor
I think the roll cage just looks kind of silly
thank you
it looks so fucking stupid
put armor around everything exept the pilot, who is literally right at the center of mass where all the bullets end up.
soft willow
In the setting's defence the armor the pilot is wearing is as good as tank armor.
But it's still silly.
soft willow
the heavy bolter pistol remains the correct amount of goofy to me
It's honestly got big Front Mission vibes and I dig it.
thin ibex
thank you
it looks so fucking stupid
put armor around everything exept the pi...
its ok, the mech and the pilot have the same armor! 🙃
uneven ember
yeah, they just had fresh lore and aesthetic set up, i forget if the current lor...
So, AIUI the LoV are the Squats, and they have totally been here this whole time.
One of the Votanns was eaten by 'nids, which the IoM thought was all of the squats getting eaten, but they were wrong.
Also the Demiurg, which was an attempt at introducing another sort of space dwarf into the lore as T'au allies in Battlefleet Gothic, are also LoV. They're not in the Greater Good but individual Kindreds are happy to make deals and alliances with parts of the T'au empire.
Which is to say, basically, they combined all the ambient lore together to go "this was pretty close to being true."
also do think it's a bit funny
Space orks: humanoid aliens
Space halflings: human offshoot
Space ogres: human offshoot
Space dwarves: human offshoot
Space elves: unrelated space aliens that happen to look almost exactly like humans
unreal cosmos
I'm sure this has been done before but it would be fun to see orks and aeldari recreated from first principals without the fantasy reference point
...actually that's kind of what you get in the game Strike Force Omega
proud wing
also do think it's a bit funny
Space orks: humanoid aliens
Space halflings: huma...
tbf they were all created by the same civilization
unreal cosmos
The enemy factions are very clear warhammer pastiches, the ork proxies are armor-plated wolfmen and the eldar proxies are, if I recall, trilateral
proud wing
and im not sure if im familiar with space halflings?
unreal cosmos
Ratlings
https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99060105262_RatlingsNEW01.jpg some of the best snipers in the Imperium, which earns them leeway for the gluttony and larceny
man the one in front looks a lot like Oberon from Mister Miracle
pulsar cairn
hehe
uneven ember
Also I knew about ratlings before I picked up BFG and I wasn't familiar with "rating" as a sailors' rank so when I first picked up the book I thought the Imperial Navy was staffed by hobbits for some reason.
bitter mortar
tbf they were all created by the same civilization
its left ambigious for humans, no?
Elves and Orks for sure were in the War in Heaven, humans mightve just evolved
pulsar cairn
were aeldari weapons and armor the same back then?
proud wing
its left ambigious for humans, no?
no, it's confirmed the Old Ones made the monkeys that evolved into humans
pastel rampart
The fandom wiki doesn't source things properly a lot of the time so take that with a grain of salt.
bright dove
Sometimes life just Happens.
pastel rampart
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_Ones lexicanum does source things properly and it first showed up in the 3e Necron codex.
floral herald
Huh apparently the Cawl novel has a line about a C'tan recognizing humanity as being made by "their greatest enemy"
Ok that's way more vague
bitter mortar
even the 'cron codex isn't definitive
proud wing
the [1a] cited here is the 3rd edition necron codex
bitter mortar
ah I see page 9, let me read that
hmmmm
its from the perspective of a specific Aeldari
meditating into an Infinity Circuit
🤷♂️
it definitely doesn't seem like humanity was intentional
if the Old Ones just sprinkled life all over the place, than maybe
bright dove
Ah yeah, the Pariah thing.
bitter mortar
but you could say the same for the Tau, or Rak'Gol, or those snake-people
its worth taking the perspective into account
"These humans were nothing, they were jokes, they had no role defined by the Old Ones" <- said by someone proud to have been a specifically crafted species built for war
pastel rampart
Whatever intentions mankind's predecessors might've had died with the Old Ones.
floral herald
Ah yeah I can buy this
I know it was a Thing in the imperial cult that humanity should be proud for having evolved naturally instead of being an unnatural creation
But its funny that they're ultimately wrong
bright dove
I mean, they basically did.
pastel rampart
The Old Ones seeded earth with monkeys, probably with some intention to do something with them, maybe. Or left there as a joke to see what happens.
But then they died and humanity discovered fire and how to cook meat with it and it all went downhill from there.
bright dove
Unlike the Eldar, who got made to do their job, did it, and then the party started.
bitter mortar
for the Drukhari, the party never stopped!
bitter mortar
The Old Ones seeded earth with monkeys, probably with some intention to do somet...
If the votann were meant to be automated mining drones, its funny that humanity basically repeated this with them
pastel rampart
unreal cosmos
Buggy the Astartes after facing dastardly Rogue Trader Monkeigh d'Luffy
uneven ember
were aeldari weapons and armor the same back then?
I presume it was, because honestly whichever Eldar went "gun that shoots ninja stars, weapon design has peaked" was completely right.
pulsar cairn
how do Votann get planets from people again? besides violence that is, i remember someone mentioning super capitalism?
bright dove
If they want a planet, they can negotiate.
But they might care more about the resources.
pulsar cairn
oh, i imagine that's a way for them to avoid spending the resources a war would take
wintry mist
sick I have Wrath and Glory
any idea how to get the character creation to work with homebrew?
pulsar cairn
idk
what kind of homebrew
i say u take a look at how each kind of character is built and go from there
like "oh a common guardsman has these kinds of stats"
wintry mist
no I have the abundance of apocrypha foundry module and there is a built in character creator for W&G
and the homebrew stuff (from apocrypha and my own items) dont work with the character creation
floral herald
This is is a good one which supports homebrew
Then you just import them manually iirc
thin ibex
space marine scouts are t2 right?
and deathwatch as an org still utilizes scouts right?
tired cairn
A cursory inspection suggests that deathwatch only inducts full space marines, but some choose to wear scout armor
floral herald
That’s accurate yeah
DW inducts veterans generally
But does use scout armor when appropriate
thin ibex
was thinking about your earlier suggestion of starting them out as scouts
so that we can start at t2
floral herald
100 years might be too long but moving between tiers does mean taking an upgrade package and a decent amount of downtime
pastel rampart
But does use scout armor when appropriate
Which I think is general practice for a lot of chapters, or at least makes the most amount of sense--if a mission requires regular marines to don scout armor then they'll do it.
floral herald
Yeah for sure
Though it may be a little different for Primaris since they have Phobos suits instead
pastel rampart
Yeah, Primaris is different in general.
thin ibex
its mostly a thought about like...
we'll all be completely new to the game system
and starting at t3 might be shakey
junior robin
I really hope warhammer the old world becomes a success so we can get a lizardmen/dark elf supplement called "warhammer the old world the new world"
wintry mist
Lol
Realised how I want to start my first session for my campaign
Their various leads have led them to a bar in the slums of Little Cadia, the largest city on Gue'vesa'rio. They meet various people at the bar relating to the Imperial resurgence, either against it or subtly for it
Have someone who wants to play a Fire Warrior and I am imagining the western-esque walk in where everyone stops what they're doing and looks at them as they come through the door
pulsar cairn
topaz elk
wintry mist
in wrath and glory do you get to choose talents during character creation?
or can you not buy talents with XP at the start?
pulsar cairn
let me check the pdf, i know there's a way to increase your tier
unsure if u can pick talents at the start tho, but i'll see what i can find, unless someone who knows shows up first hehe
upper canopy
You can
floral herald
in wrath and glory do you get to choose talents during character creation?
You can with unspent XP after your archetype
wintry mist
ic ic
SO
what's a good rule of thumb for balancing someone wanting a specific weapon instead of another at tier 1
specifically they're a corsair and want a sword
maybe a chainsword?
upper canopy
Use the rules listed is a good rule of thumb imo
floral herald
Not a huge deal if the weapon isn't much stronger or weaker
Like if it was a Thammer instead of a normal sword that's maybe a problem
cinder wraith
opponent: "hey is 1.5k pts game good for you?"
me: "yea"
meanwhile my eightbounds:
wintry mist
Wrath and Glory has strange foundry issues
for whatever reason the skills are set at the level of the attribute, so increasing the skill advances costs way too high?
The answer is no its not that bad and I might just be silly
pulsar cairn
we are all silly
we are warhammer fans
super space racists fighting Green loud psychic shrooms? pfft
upper canopy
wintry mist
oh wow I just found the 10 questions
that's such a cool idea
talking backstory stuff with the Eldar character and they're like 110 years old and they've moved to Little Cadia after saving some human's life and they went "yeah, I wanna go live with them for a bit. They seem really cool and I dont want to sit around here for like 1000 years and then die" much to the chagrin of their tribe
which has the hilarious idea of some imperial working in the factory who has a roommate that's an Eldar
that's a 40k comic strip concept
wintry mist
yeah they basically said "Okay. Leave. But don't come back until you're older and know better."
pulsar cairn
you said they were an exodite right?
wintry mist
yeah
corsairs are my favorite ones
wintry mist
yeeee
Eldar reach adulthood at around 100 ish?
so we went for a really young Eldar who's incredibly naive
name em skully
wintry mist
I plan on really straining the Exodite tribe's relation with their character at some poin
upper canopy
pulsar cairn
isn't that...bad for you?
upper canopy
it's definitely bad for the warrior
storm schooner
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/456209913438273538/1192195077091627048/IM...
Warriors when they first reform
pulsar cairn
do necron warriors do the servitor thing of having flashes of their former selves?
upper canopy
Nope
The only guys that do anything remotely are the Flayed Ones
who are infected with a virus that makes them flay people with skin and take their skin for clothing
pulsar cairn
are regular necron warriors able to be infected or only the ones who kept their consciousness
upper canopy
Any necron I think
pulsar cairn
damn
floral herald
There's probably occasional flashes
Servitors aren't supposed to remember anything either
brittle salmon
Its any Necron, yeah
Twice-Dead King is actually centred heavily around the Flayer Virus
It's a good pair of novels and worth a read/listen
pulsar cairn
being a necron is already kind of sad, but if becoming a flayed one brings some of their older selves back that's just a bonus to the torture
floral herald
Oh my god
'The warlock engineers soon discovered the Device of the Great Beyond, a communication apparatus that spoke to beings from beyond the stars. As they swirled its many dials, a querulous voice spoke through the stone speakers. That voice, fair and clear caused the Skaven to bolt away. The device was something like the far-squeaker, but the melodious tones that issued forth were, if anything, kin to the despised speech of the elf-things. As they did not understand the alien language, nor how the arcane contraption worked the warlock engineers pulled the device apart and shot it with warplock pistols until it stopped making any sounds.'
I just learned that apparently the Skaven crank called a craftworld during the end times
pulsar cairn
what
upper canopy
Yeah that happened
It's kinda dumb but I do enjoy the idea of a Skaven hearing an elf on a phone and immediately whipping out a revolver and emptying all 6 rounds into the phone.
pulsar cairn
wintry mist
Eldar have multiple parents???
pulsar cairn
they do?
bright dove
I mean.
Chances are good they have at least 2 parents
So multiple parents would be normal considering sexual reproduction.
upper canopy
Eldar have multiple parents???
This has never been confirmed but what has been confirmed is that Eldar insemination takes place over a longer period of time.
Essentially gestation takes place and the male adds genetic material during that period.
wintry mist
yeah I remember reading it doesn't have to be the same male
upper canopy
So there's a potential that multiple males could fertilize the same egg but I don't think that ever got mentioned.
wintry mist
how do eldar get more waystones?
quaint compass
some way
wintry mist
oh they retrieve them from the old eldar homeworlds
upper canopy
Croneworlds yeah
solemn gull
Campaign idea: Escape from Croneworld
wintry mist
I might do a mini adventure involving my exodite player and the rest of the party trying to retrieve some waystones
would be a hell of a journey
going from the enclaves to the eye of terror
solemn gull
Isn’t your party tier 2?
solemn gull
I mean it’s like trying to spawncamp the demon base but if you say so
pulsar cairn
is every croneworld inside the eye of terror
wouldn't some of them get teleported around the galaxy cause warp funny?
is it at least possible for that to happen?
soft willow
Not every crone world is in the eye of terror, but also anything's possible due to the warp.
pulsar cairn
then ya can probably make it into a doable adventure haha
floral herald
lmao (new scouts)
south axle
A baby beakie
solemn gull
What would people consider the best FFG line rpg for new players coming from dnd
floral herald
dark heresy
upper canopy
yeah
brittle salmon
yeah, probably dh2e
upper canopy
I mean if we count every game LIKE that
and not just specifically FFG
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
2nd or 4th
floral herald
I say DH1E, he said grognardedly
brittle salmon
I say DH1E, he said grognardedly
I think 1e is gonna throw DnD players for about a loop and a half
floral herald
Maybe
(I can't say honestly, I played DH1E before I played D&D, though I had futzed around with 3.5 character creation before then)
upper canopy
This is gonna sound mean but any time someone says "new players coming from DnD" I just read that as like
"players completely new to tabletop"
"that know how dice work"
because I feel like that preface usually means "They are very in their comfort zone"
floral herald
I was assuming 5e
I... I think I might have played dark heresy before D&D 4e came out
But yeah of the FFG games I think Dark Heresy and WHFRP are gonna be your best bets
Rogue Trader requires a lot of player buy in for its unusual premise, and frankly needs a lot of house ruling
Deathwatch is mechanically really tough to get because it starts at the upper limit of dark heresy power levels so there's a huge mess of mods and exceptions to track
But you're Space Marines which is nice for that 40k Space Marines feeling
Only War is another buy in for the premise game
But its more space MASH
And Black Crusade is honestly pretty good for D&D as a place to come from but you're (bigger) assholes than usual
upper canopy
Basically Dark Heresy is the only one where you don't have to keep track of an unwiedly amount of things by default.
floral herald
But also the default setting for Black Crusade is kinda hard to wrap your head around
tired cairn
But also the default setting for Black Crusade is kinda hard to wrap your head a...
How do?
floral herald
It's set by default in the Screaming Vortex, a warp storm
So reality is kind of unreal and there's tons of weird chaos societies
As well as quasi-magical effects and areas
It's kind of sword and sorcery esque but in space
brittle salmon
The Vortex is honestly FFG's best setting
floral herald
word
brittle salmon
It's really unique and showcases there can actually be like...chaos societies? That function?
Q'Sal is the GOAT
Give me a campaign set entirely in Q'Sal and I'll be happy
floral herald
Q'sal is great
I really like the Ragged Helix since its so weird
Tons of little planetoids with inexplicable breathable atmosphere you can literally jump between
soft willow
It sounds like I should track down a copy of the Black Crusade book just for the fluff.
floral herald
Messia is also great but more traditional - its kind of 40k mad max
Raiders and mutants and such and huge mobile oil derricks setting forth from one of the two main cities
floral herald
It sounds like I should track down a copy of the Black Crusade book just for the...
The fluff is great, though the various splats elaborate on it a lot
Q'sal is great though
Q'sal is a rich and prosperous world that would seem familiar to the inhabitant of a Civilised World of the Imperium. The clean lines of its glass-towered cities overlook plains covered with well-tended agriculture, its air is alive with the movement of flying craft. In space, a docking ring and shipyards work constantly and a variety of sleek-hulled vessels can be found moored there.
On closer inspection, all of this seemingly ordinary activity reeks of the most potent Warp-spawned sorcery; everything from Daemon-forged engines to voidships powered by rune-inscribed menhirs. Spells and cantrips are implicit in every kind of technology in an arcane fusion of magic and science.
There's no specific horrible secret either - when Q'sal trades with others they exclusively trade in souls
Which is fucked up but within 40k norms by a lot
solemn gull
The eye is awesome because it feels like an entire setting of “character walks into a bar and a bunch of off and rough patrons turn towards them”
Like “Shit we need to refuel.”
docks at nearest port station only to find it filled with clones who all want your face.
“Nevermind I think we can make sails work.”
runic swallow
Or you just skip to the “Hostile Negotiation” phase
floral herald
Yea
dense sedge
I've heard rumors of there being mandrakes as the vs for night lords
which would mean there moving away from bespoke kill teams to regular squad+upgrade sprue which is a shame, despite my liking for mandrakes and other drukhari
dense sedge
I'd love a court of the archon kill team
floral herald
which would mean there moving away from bespoke kill teams to regular squad+upgr...
Mandrakes might be the bespoke there
Though I’m a little skeptical of this rumor
Though the Scouts V Scorps one was accurate
remote wharf
God there needs to be a new version of his guy
dense sedge
ehh, bespoke to me is a kit designed for kill team, the scorpions and mandrakes are 10 man of the same model rather than a tactical squad like ork kommandoes or krieg veterans
brittle salmon
ehh, bespoke to me is a kit designed for kill team, the scorpions and mandrakes ...
Nothing says the Mandrakes have to be 10 man of the same model, is what Cyan's saying
dense sedge
well see, but so far it feels likely to me that we'll see the bespoke kill teams phased out for basic boxes, which would be a shame
floral herald
I agree I think its a little too little data to draw on
I'm actually really happy with how Blades of Khaine turned out
I was initially unhappy they weren't a "specialist team" but I've come to prefer them following the fluff instead
I'm actually really happy with both of the most recent teams
Scouts are a great "meat and potatoes" KT
And BoK are fucking cool with their flexible specialist powers and open ended construction
brittle salmon
My best friend really dislikes it
Based on the two teams in lore being really disparate in experience and deadlines
Baby marines vs veteran warriors, is what it says
I'm not sure where I fall
floral herald
I think the KT boxes are generally intended to be contrasting factions
So new vs aged makes sense for that one
dense sedge
mostly a general lack of hope towards gw
floral herald
Octarius is vet guard vs orks - not sure what to make of that as a thematic thing beyond just "orks vs guard" which is a pretty storied matchu
Ashes of Faith is another lore one Inquisition vs chaos cult
Into the Dark is weird - Navy Breachers vs Kroot. It's one I don't really get as a thematic split.
Gallowfall is dorfs vs beastmen and is a kind of high tech vs tech haters MU
Soulshackle is the law vs lawless raiders
Shadowvaults is another I struggle to place - Heirotek vs Kasrkin. Maybe a sort of "professional vs mad science"?
Chalnath - novitiates vs pathfinders faith vs reason
Nachmund - CSM vs Corsairs. I don't follow this one either.
Moroch - desperate lost goons vs tactical pro space marines
I think that's all the MU boxes?
brittle salmon
That seems about right
Also, I'm gonna drop a real hot take in the chat here
I think people give GW a real hard rap over greed and other stuff like that, but I also don't think it's entirely deserved
floral herald
I think that is a hot take but I agree largely after their leadership overhaul around 2018
brittle salmon
Does anyone else want to give me an example of a company that's given all their employees a 2.5k pound bonus in recent history?
Or equivalent?
floral herald
GW's internal corporate structure is like, Paleozoic
brittle salmon
The whole reason GW charges the prices they do is because they're not paying a pittance to sweatshop workers in China to make their shit
floral herald
(In a good way in this case)
brittle salmon
And they generally get the quality to match
bold halo
they still making everything in the UK? been out of the loop for ages
brittle salmon
Yup, all manufacturing is out of... Birmingham, iirc
bold halo
I think some of the sticker shock with their minis comes from games workshop being the first company most people really encounter as far as minis games go, so their quality gets set as the baseline
but god damn after years of shopping around, trying other games, picking other stuff up, I really do appreciate the quality of warhammer kits more
brittle salmon
I've been saying this tbh
bold halo
not gonna fault anyone for being put off by the price of kits, especially as it's part of the reason I took my decade long break after seeing the price of some boxes go up by like, 50% over the time I did play
but you're more or less getting what you pay for
anyway kill team looks cool
pretending I'll stop there and not build an entire 40k army after but one step at a time
brittle salmon
Imo kill team is just the way to play 40k these days
bold halo
ngl there's some strong appeal to being able to buy like, a box or two of a bunch of different stuff and really mix up painting different things
floral herald
Kill Team is def the most modern and balanced 40k games get rn I think
brittle salmon
Comparitively tiny buy in, much much tighter rules
floral herald
Maybe the HH epic scale game I haven't looked at that much
bold halo
my brother's number one crisis suit fan so I know we're gonna play some 40k proper at some point regardless
good excuse to paint a bunch of big bugs
upper canopy
The big example of naked greed I think gw showed was warhammrr+
But obviously I'm gonna be biased on that
bold halo
honestly the biggest thing I'm excited about getting back into it is now I'm a proper adult, with power tools
brittle salmon
I do think thats the one fair point, Voy
bold halo
all the terrain and table stuff I wanted to build as a teenager can be real
pastel rampart
Yup, all manufacturing is out of... Birmingham, iirc
Some of their older board game stuff had paper components made in China iirc, like the Space Hulk reboot in the late 00s.
floral herald
all the terrain and table stuff I wanted to build as a teenager can be real
Being handier helps so much haha
pastel rampart
But other than that yeah GW produces everything.
brittle salmon
Some of their older board game stuff had paper components made in China iirc, li...
ah I see
bold halo
any huge new hotness for eldar other than the sick avatar of khaine mini?
"new" being relative to the last time I played being uh
5th
floral herald
The Space Hulk reboot had pretty sculpts even if the quality was not quite the normal one for GW plastic at the time iirc
Though I didn't actually like space hulk that much as a game
bold halo
yeah I'm not mad about owning space hulk despite not being super into it as a game
the tiles are cool for other stuff and the minis are good sculpts
brittle salmon
Now I'm wondering if GW will ever do a terminators KT
I really want them to, but I can't see it
upper canopy
It really does fuck me up
that W&G just doesn't do Rogue Trader as cool as Rogue Trader does
floral herald
I *really* want them to, but I can't see it
Best I can really see practically is an Iron Hands-y KT with a Terminator Leader and PA buddies
bold halo
even without having gotten too deep into the mechanics yet a terminator kill team sounds obnoxious as hell
brittle salmon
Best I can really see practically is an Iron Hands-y KT with a Terminator Leader...
Oh, a Termie leader is a really good way to do it yeah
Just have the one Big Fuckoff Guy
upper canopy
isn't there a custodes kt?
floral herald
There is
It's fireteam based
2 stodes or 5 Sisters of Silence
So you can run it as 4, 7, or 10 models
I think the usual most competitive list is 2 stodes and 5 SoS
4 custodes is really hard to win with in a lot of missions/matchups because you only bring 12 actions even if they're strong and have almost no ability to absorb losses
Also Kasrkin got buffed recently and do great into elite teams
Which might be a problem if you want to bring them in a tournament
pastel rampart
Best I can really see practically is an Iron Hands-y KT with a Terminator Leader...
Space Wolves would surely be a better fit for that.
floral herald
Oh that's a great idea
I think both would work well
But SWs have had their own codex more
pastel rampart
I could see IH having a tech marine for their Big Guy.
floral herald
IH do also do terminator squad leaders
pastel rampart
True, but techmarine feels more thematic.
floral herald
That’s true
upper canopy
I'd love a Techmarine/Priest and like 10 Servitors
past sphinx
I'd love a Techmarine/Priest and like 10 Servitors
you gotta get into that necromunda mindset friendo
upper canopy
Unfortunately I have associated Necromunda so much with "people are mad at me" that I can no longer allow it to enter my mind
😔
floral herald
It’s weird there’s very few KTs with a really strong leader and weak goons
glossy vapor
its fun (tm) encountering the warhammer fans who are very normal about the imperium
i havent really dived into the horus heresy, i just get my lore secondhand. so i cant really say how much of it is people reading in their own ideas, or whether the great crusade/HH era stuff actually frames genocidal autocracy the only option that much.
bright dove
The Emperor is kind of a dick.
dense sedge
my dream for the mandrakes is that it's actually a inquisitor like thing where it's five models of court of the archon you use have alongside a selection of mercenaries (incubi or mandrakes) with new mandrakes coming with the kit
past sphinx
its fun (tm) encountering the warhammer fans who are very normal about the imper...
i think its the same sort of reaction that gets people to mulling around about how they like the "nice" space marines, you cant have all of the super cool imperium and like them a lot AND them be the bad guys because their the humans and the whole universe wants them dead
James Workshop made a universe of horrors that man kind decided it needed to be worse than to survive and then spent like 40 years trying to justify that position
dense sedge
or you can skip the question and be a dirty xeno heretic like me
bright dove
I mean. All you really have to do is acknowledge that everyone in 40k is some kind of awful.
And then root for your favorite blorbos anyways.
desert jay
Even Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM?
bright dove
Hey, still a compulsive liar.
Just because he's rightfully afraid of the setting he's in doesn't absolve him. 😛
past sphinx
Cain is a good man but fights to continue a system that has industrial baby furnaces
desert jay
That's true
bright dove
And while he does his best to mitigate the orphan grinder.
He also is willing to use that orphan grinde.r
glossy vapor
James Workshop made a universe of horrors that man kind decided it needed to be ...
I feel like there is a story here about humanity dooming itself to needing the aufulness. Like it burned its bridges with any possible xenos allies, overexpanded massively, created a paranoid and suffering society ripe for chaos corruption, and developed so focused on military grandeur that they shot their long term progress in the foot, leaving them with conscription and slavery as the only other options capable of sustaining the war machine.
this might be a lot of fannon but i like twisting lore to make new things.
crisp lance
past sphinx
I feel like there is a story here about humanity dooming itself to needing the a...
oh like vulkan specifically killed a planet of humans and eldar who had been peacefully coexistent for a long ass time because "thou shalt not", its where the "vulkan flamers a kid" thing comes from. That story repeats itself across hundreds of planets under various legions
they didnt just shoot the angry ones they activily genocided xenos allied with humanity
save for the excessively useful ones like Jokearo
past sphinx
It could have been better, had the emperor weilded a lance and not a cudgel but once a barbarian king always a barbarian king
though the adhoch explanation is that he had to hurry because the Beast and the Primorks where coming but uhhh that doesnt really cover everything
verbal ermine
yeap. 40k has always been grimdark, so to speak. Furthermore, anyone who tries to align themselves with the Imperium in particular, in a "HUMAN HOO-RAH" way tends to raise a lot of red flags
Like either they don't see the downright awful amount of crimes they've done, both during the 'Great' Crusade (there's a reason why its called a crusade) and post Heresy, or they do and they embrace it as a form of xenophobia they're willing to apply to not only xenos, heretics, and mutants in 40k, but also to anyone they don't want to understand in real life (like queer people and furries)
upper canopy
Hfy is bad mkay
thin ibex
Hfy?
upper canopy
Humanity fuck yeah
verbal ermine
yeah
Its that sorta human centric thinking that eventually stems into "but what is human" and start labelling groups of people as "true" humans and anyone else that doesn't fit those rigid rules gets the short end of the stick
in other words, its circles back into racism
past sphinx
dudes who read starship troopers and never recover
past sphinx
Its that sorta human centric thinking that eventually stems into "but what *is* ...
boy i had that literal conversation in the necromunda discord with a particularly uninlighten gent
verbal ermine
dudes who read starship troopers and never recover
worse are the dudes who don't read it and just... follow blatantly with the surface level messages of "HUMANITY IS BASED" and nothing else
verbal ermine
boy i had that literal conversation in the necromunda discord with a particularl...
oh dear
I assume they weren't open to that idea and just deflected that idea?
Like I always say, 40k fans either hate furries and queer people, or are the furries and queer people
glad I found the latter here
cause good lord the ridiculous amount of SM fanboys and Imperium Larpers you get on any server that has 40k content (mods or otherwise) is enough to... i dunno
glossy vapor
dudes who read starship troopers and never recover
hastily made meme
verbal ermine
ah, sorry if my rant got a little bit out of control
I just have some really loud opinions on warhammer
glossy vapor
How do people feel about the LOV aesthetic? I really like the idea of them as sort of these remote industrial workers who evolve into a whole society shaped by isolation in a incredibly desolate environment, It reads very long rim/belt from the expanse to me. but most of their units feel like "dwarves in space" and don't really capture that unique premise.
i am open to being sold on the LOV, as i dont want to start another negative conversation after we just finished the last one.
verbal ermine
personally I see them as DRG dwarves but with better equipment
which is nice and all, but I wish they had more depth other than "Materialistic high tech space dwarves"
past sphinx
How do people feel about the LOV aesthetic? I really like the idea of them as so...
I play the Squats, i much prefer their design. though ill admit i do like the infantry the elites are where the best units are with the stilts and the double fist lads
verbal ermine
Or rather that they double down on the dwarven aesthetic with some of their units
past sphinx
what id do for LoV to have the Ironhead level drip
verbal ermine
like their ATV. It looks too bulbous and sleek for a dwarf
which is understandable, since anything boxier is stepping into IG territory
glossy vapor
i wish it looked more like a construction company tried to design a tank
floral herald
How do people feel about the LOV aesthetic? I really like the idea of them as so...
They have fun models but the main paint scheme is really drab
verbal ermine
Heck, I wish they had tank treads
verbal ermine
I do like this model
glossy vapor
Im looking at the list again, and a lot of the units do actualy have a good industrial vibe to them, some dont, (the tanks look more like a sci fi rovers than industrial equipment). but a lot do
i think my rant was more based on hearing people describe the lov society, which made them sound less like the descendants of stranded miners, abandoned by their megacorps, struggling to thrive in deep space, but more like a collection of steyotipical dwarf traits.
glossy vapor
I do like this model
yes, this looks more lov to me than lov
verbal ermine
Mhm!
floral herald
I think the Taurus looks pretty good but they need a non-transport tank badly
floral herald
They’re a pretty popular army I’m surprised they haven’t gotten more models yet
cunning lintel
lov vehicles are just so shaped, i love them
past sphinx
they desperately need more scrungly little guys
gotta outpace the generic ass terminator characters they keep releasing
that is the one unit i truely dislike
floral herald
The thunderkyn are goated though
Top tier model for the range imo
The other warsuit guys I’m also meh on
cunning lintel
ok not to derail but building these deldar boats has me wonderin
whats the worst model yall have built in terms of being like, obnixious to build
past sphinx
The thunderkyn are goated though
genuinely gonna steal for Munda melta gunner
floral herald
That I’ve actually built?
cunning lintel
yeag
past sphinx
ok not to derail but building these deldar boats has me wonderin
whats the worst...
the charter master powerfist for Ironheads, the thumb is the size of a pinhead and has to be precisely alinged to sit right
floral herald
Fuck this guy frfr
past sphinx
because the fucking thumb its seperate
past sphinx
Fuck this guy frfr
OH THESE GUYS SUCK
cunning lintel
its between this dang deldar raider and some sicariians i built a while back, gangly-ass lads were so hard to keep stable while gluing
floral herald
He really doesn’t look like he should be an issue but there’s so many vertical seams for a metal model
cunning lintel
oh yea metal and resin are always a huge pain from what i've heard
only dealt with plastic so far myself tho
cunning lintel
yike
floral herald
I’ve heard the old screaming skull was horrible to assemble
I never made one though
cunning lintel
yeah that looks like a pain
floral herald
I dig the new one
untold swallow
oh like vulkan specifically killed a planet of humans and eldar who had been pea...
This reminds me I made space Bretonnia
aka an Imperial Knights system that totally isn't living on top of several exodite Eden worlds, no sirree
And that voice coming from that cave we have all our knights go down into so they can receive a blessing to pilot their knights? Oh that's just The Lady
What Lady?
What do you mean 'What Lady?' The Lady, dumbass
past sphinx
"did you get a look at her ears" as one elf would say
untold swallow
I mean she has no ears, she's the World Spirit
to fully pull back the veil a bit xD
past sphinx
they'd be very big ears if their the spirit for the whole dang world
jagged dawn
So far my worst model has been Chaos Wardogs but they’re not actually that bad
Just the most complicated kit I’ve built so far
dense sedge
my brother isn't a fan of the ossiarchs
naive abyss
i should be into the ossiarchs. i like allot of their fluff and concepts as weirdo bone constructs
but the cartoon meme smiles sorta like ruin it for me personally
id end up wanting to make them mouthless like that one big dude from underworld
this fucker fucks hard
pulsar cairn
bones rattled
alpine quarry
How do people feel about the LOV aesthetic? I really like the idea of them as so...
Already ranted on it, but i think they are much better with a grimey industrial looking paintjob rather than the clean plastic look they get by GW
alpine quarry
like their ATV. It looks too bulbous and sleek for a dwarf
They have bulbous design, imo thats fine and dwarfey
wintry mist
Thinking about introduce a renegade astartes faction in my W&G campaign for when they have to go offworld
would be interesting to have them work with a renegade space marine warband and potentially convince them to join the Farsight Enclaves
brittle edge
Is Wrath and Glory fun?
spice flicker
So does the Imperium have any water bound naval vessels they regularly use in war? I know about the Imperial navy which is all space based but do they also have a water based navy as well to support the guard?
wintry mist
I dont think so
The local PDF might have some
in which case it's entirely up to interpretation
floral herald
So does the Imperium have any water bound naval vessels they regularly use in wa...
There’s nothing standard I’m aware of but various places with warships anyway
pulsar cairn
"i think i'll build an Ultra marine's army"
spice flicker
Truly an ultrasmurf army
thin ibex
new ultramarines really loving LoS rules 😛
spice flicker
Wait, its mostly a head with stubby arms and funny little feet. It's a kirbymarine.
thin ibex
what happens when kirby sucks up a space marine
mental birch
Horus heresy question
wintry mist
I need a really evil and just downright awful loyalist space marine chapter
they're all evil and awful
but like, above and beyond even for the imperium
thin ibex
Marines Malevolent, Minotaurs, Flesh Tearers
wintry mist
just need an awful chapter to drop on my players
pulsar cairn
Minotaurs are mostly used for dealing with other space marines right?
you want someone evil or someone outright awful to fight?
cause the space sharks are also like..
pulsar cairn
what's the deal breaker for them? if any
floral herald
Oh yeah they’re pretty awful
thin ibex
Death Specters too
wintry mist
there are two space shark chapters so I'm assuming we're talking about the Charcharodons
wait no that's just a wiki entry for what hasn't been confirmed to be the old, non canon space sharks lore
I might use the Charcharodons
been thinking about it but there's some baggage there
what with the fan-favourite chapter master and everything
thin ibex
i mean, they can be awful and still be a fan favorite at the end of the day
and frankly Tyberos makes a great villain
apparently he's so scary he made entities who can't feel fear feel fear
wintry mist
ph np
oh no I don't mean they aren't awful
there's just some baggage with Tyberos as a villain
but I have been really thinking of including him
mostly scared of including named characters
thin ibex
personally i would be too, but i wouldn't say its off limits in general
im just inclined not to do so
alpine quarry
Death Specters too
Are they the ones with ""breeding worlds""? 😬
wintry mist
yeah
solemn gull
Death spectres were the first chapter I ever read about because the main character in a deathwatch book was a death spectre deathwatch librarian
I like how they basically have their own golden throne situation
wintry mist
nah I might just put in Tyberos
but he would also just absolutely ROLL the PCs
even if they were all Tier 4 characters
solemn gull
but he would also just absolutely ROLL the PCs
Who says thats a bad thing
Put him somewhere and see what they do
wintry mist
If they got into a fight he would kill them with no chance of a "you barely survive..." is my concern
But making him a threat on the board rather than a thing they will directly confront without prior knowledge is a better idea
An ever looming threat even more scary than the Inquisitor trying to destroy the Farsight Enclaves are the Carcharodons under his command
solemn gull
Yeah like have them stumble into the remains of a elite team he took out
Or be something to escape from like the terminator
wintry mist
thinking of making a custom chapter for a space marine mercenary warband
solemn gull
Oh like renegade marines just cruising around living life
thin ibex
easiest way to avoid easy rolls is having him start the roll, then having something more important than the players come up and he bails
wintry mist
Oh like renegade marines just cruising around living life
yeah basically
and they go "hello tau friends. We are looking to trade in the spoils of war and maybe do some work for you."
"The Imperium don't really like us so we're branching out."
solemn gull
I like exploring that “Why should we fight and die for ungrateful fragile humans” where they don’t go full evil
wintry mist
So I realised I set the founding of Gue'vesa'rio to 810.M41 but the fall of cadia is 999.M41
solemn gull
Not everyone who hates the imperium instantly becomes a chaos worshipper
wintry mist
I then realised that isn't a problem
the original founders had some warp shenanigans occur
thin ibex
its a bit in line with my thought on the long memory of the custodes, where they don't like space marines because they turned on the emperor
solemn gull
So I realised I set the founding of Gue'vesa'rio to 810.M41 but the fall of cadi...
As if the imperium has accurate records
alpine quarry
If they got into a fight he would kill them with no chance of a "you barely surv...
Then dont kill them, yknow
Even if the rolls say that tgey would die here, dont tell that to the players
solemn gull
TOPICAL
pulsar cairn
pulsar cairn
An ever looming threat even more scary than the Inquisitor trying to destroy the...
make sure they come across his handiwork then
like "it will happen to you too" kind of thing
solemn gull
make sure they come across his handiwork then
“Who were they?”
“No they…It…”
pulsar cairn
it might not but if they think that it might it will create a really fun effect
past sphinx
An ever looming threat even more scary than the Inquisitor trying to destroy the...
Funfact a single shot from the tau breachers main rifle can one hole a space marine
straight through
thin ibex
honestly as far as like "unbeatable threats" in an rpg, you as the gm still absolutely have full control on if the players must die
like tyberos would never have to kill them in an encounter
pulsar cairn
he might want to pull a Caesar's legion and want them to go back and share with the others what they saw
people think they might be night lord successor's right?
past sphinx
what they saw? YOU DO NOT SEE TYBERIOUS THE RED WAKE
thin ibex
raven guard as well
floral herald
It’s pretty well established they’re RG successors I think
People just love making up traitor legion successor lore
thin ibex
honestly the simplest thing to do is have Tyberos have something better to do that interrupts what would have been a player bloodbath
pulsar cairn
i see
thin ibex
or having an external event interrupt and render their doom impossible
floral herald
Honestly it’s 40k
Just kill some PCs
Whatever happens you will not be missed etc
thin ibex
I'm just saying, as a GM, its not out of your hands
its not a "oh no, they encountered the character i placed, now they have to die"
you can avoid that if thats what you want to do
floral herald
That said, a bunch of T4 PCs with good gear can probably take someone like that on
They’re all freaks
untold swallow
take on who?
floral herald
Tyberos
untold swallow
oh tyberos
solemn gull
I personally agree with CYAN but like I said we all have our own bias
so commenting from these angles seems kind of pointless?
thin ibex
like, as a gm, you have the means and the methods to create events or manufacture circumstances that do or don't kill players; I think its a bit lazy to choose to put a character in, and then make it impossible to survive them. That's just you saying you want to kill the players
like if they wont even have a chance of surviving, just have them roll new characters
solemn gull
Things in the 40k universe can instantly kill you, you avoid those things
tired cairn
Sometimes it's about the journey
thin ibex
i wouldn't personally want to be led into a scenario without the means to avoid or address it, then have the ensuing fight be a "you literally have no means to survive" It's effectively a "rocks fall you die" scenario
solemn gull
Sometimes it's about the journey
on that journey you got to avoid the spots with "There be dragons" right?
floral herald
Going down swinging is also a journey
Especially if you’re buying time or something
tired cairn
Generally I would agree. But there are times where it's fine. I think it should be properly known to everyone though
Like there are some horror rpgs where everyone is guaranteed to die by the end
floral herald
It’s sort of like including Darth Vader in the SWRPGS
If he shows up you’re in trouble
solemn gull
It’s sort of like including Darth Vader in the SWRPGS
you get the scene from rogue one lol
floral herald
Or you get the fuck out of there
tired cairn
Vader is only a problem because people don't apply sufficient explosives to him
This is not typically a mistake PCs would do lol
floral herald
This is technically true for most people in 40K :p
thin ibex
What im responding to is the idea of putting Tyberos the Red Wake in the campaign, then having it set up that if the players encounter Tyberos, they'd have no chance of even barely surviving as a GM concern; because I don't think thats a situation that's out of the GM's hands, it shouldn't be a passive concern of a thing that could just happen if they don't want it to
tired cairn
Haha
floral herald
Though “lure Tyberos into your ship and blow him up with melta torpedos” is a PC plans moment if I’ve ever heard of one
tired cairn
I think it's fine if it's a certain type of game and people know there will be no-win situations going into it
For a "standard" rpg campaign, I would agree with you
thin ibex
You don't put a terrasque into a game of level 1 DnD PCs, have them wander into it, and messily kill them and go "well, it just kinda happened"
solemn gull
Though “lure Tyberos into your ship and blow him up with melta torpedos” is a PC...
When in doubt activate self destruct and leg it to the lifepods
thin ibex
because, ultimately, as a GM, you put the terrasque into the path of the PCs, you own that
solemn gull
I can't say I have ever had that situation, stuff exists and the PCs usually approach it first
thin ibex
right and im saying, as a GM, you are the person placing the things that exist, they don't just exist without your input whatsoever
solemn gull
I mean, objectively they exist within the confines of the world
thin ibex
or to rephrase, they don't exist independent of your input, you place them their, to greater and lesser degrees, you own that they are there
solemn gull
I can see this is more a conflict of styles
solemn gull
or to rephrase, they don't exist independent of your input, you place them their...
I’m impartial
thin ibex
I don't understand what that means
lets say you're worldbuilding to make a world that just exists to throw your players into. Are you or aren't you at all concerned with your players being able to engage with said world and some manner and survive it?
I could impartially make a world that is inherently hostile and instantly kills the players the moment they exist. That's not the world just doing its thing independent of me, I did that, I made the world that way. This is a hyperbolic exmaple, but if I'm building the world I own that exactly as much as building a world that unfairly punishes players without sufficient means to interact or engage with it.
solemn gull
lets say you're worldbuilding to make a world that just exists to throw your pla...
if I think something is cool or fits in the setting I put it there, if the players stumble into a monster's lair at T1 or decide to kick some gangers asses at T4 I'm not going to scale the fight for balance
tired cairn
It really depends on what you are going for. The mechanics of e.g. Dread are such that everyone will die by the session
floral herald
You are I think the only person assuming that including Tyberos means that it’ll involve unfairly punishing the players without a means to engage
thin ibex
what I'm pointing out is that you are placing the monsters layer and the gangers, they don't just exist indpendent of you. Yes there's a level of players engaging with things and making choices, but you absolutely impact and affect the choices available to the players
floral herald
The original concern was I think really about the prospect of killing off published characters in a RPG campaign
(Which, maybe a hot take, but kill em anyway, RPG campaigns aren’t canon they’re your canon)
tired cairn
Now, I do think W&G lends itself better to a style of game where encounters are survivable. But I can see players going for suicidal mission plots where it is actually suicidal for the characters
thin ibex
well, the stated concern was if that they encountered him, they'd not even have barely a chance of surviving, they'd just die
solemn gull
Right so don't encounter him
floral herald
I think that’s probably underselling the power of high end characters in W&G but earlier on yeah - looking threat kind of guy
tired cairn
The original concern was I think really about the prospect of killing off publis...
I definitely agree that it doesn't matter if you kill them off. But also I'm generally not a fan of name dropping published characters in games lol
thin ibex
what that translates to is not a cascade of possibly reacting and avoiding a series of consequences, its a single consequence that creates an instant tpk