Warhammer and Such

[torn arrow]

they did that whole campaign thing

[naive abyss]

Tru

The early cursed days of warhammer

Where shit like the pygmies were canon

[thin ibex]

warhmmer is no stranger to racially charged caricatures thats for sure

[naive abyss]

Yehp

Luckily most of the real shit ones have been yeeted imo

[pulsar cairn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1014538127722946600.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

[tepid stratus]

I'd be super curious how they'd handle Nippon or Araby if given the chance to expand that far

[upper canopy]

We'll probably see them in Warhammer 3 tbh

[naive abyss]

Araby should be a vector to rep myrmidia imo

[pulsar cairn]

where do these guys fit in?

[thin ibex]

thats a tallarn desert soldier

[pulsar cairn]

yes

[jaunty dawn]

he'd have to get pretty lost

[thin ibex]

one of the guard regiments who absolutely kicked the iron warriors' ass

[pulsar cairn]

i think they are real neat

[naive abyss]

That's 40k and a tallarn

[upper canopy]

Do you mean in terms of racial charicatures?

Because Tallarn is weird

[tepid stratus]

I hope so. Warhammer 3 seems to be the trial by fire for faction concepts GW never finished

[upper canopy]

In that they're "The Arabic Imperial Guard Regiment" but are all white guys because of Lawrence of Arabia

[thin ibex]

Tallarn classify as the vaguely arabic caricature faction

and i do mean vaguely

[pulsar cairn]

i was wondering if they were a charicature or not

[thin ibex]

they like horses and going fast, and are otherwise the uncharitable movie arabs of the time; except in lore they're also certified badasses

bu their presentation is a caricature

[upper canopy]

It's like if they did a Japanese Samurai Imperial Guard regiment but based it off Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai

[pulsar cairn]

right right

[naive abyss]

I thought the one named character they had wasn't white?

[tepid stratus]

Arabic motifs and inspirations are surprisingly rare in all 3 Warhammer settings to my knowledge

[naive abyss]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Al'rahem

[thin ibex]

you have the whole of Araby which has minimal lore in total war; and the tallarns in 40k iirc

[naive abyss]

In theory lots of the vampires have vague Arabic origins

[thin ibex]

you don't have much sub-factional lore either, as the lore never tries to approach describing different arab ethnic groups or whatever, so you generally just have the "vaguely arabic" vibe

[pulsar cairn]

i too have a beard

[naive abyss]

Due to vampires slowly moving out of khemri

[upper canopy]

Eh, actually Oldhammer had a surprising amount of lore on the different ethnic groups of Arabay

[thin ibex]

iirc the desert tigers from tallarn are pretty cool too

[naive abyss]

Allot of vamp lore involves various clans and tribes

[thin ibex]

was kinda goin on this https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Araby

[tepid stratus]

That's kinda my point, tallarn is... Well tallarn. And Araby barely has lore, seemingly existing just because some arabic nation would be in that spot of totally not earth

[naive abyss]

Like how the harkons are called that cuz they're all harkoni

[upper canopy]

There's more than this

There's a divide between the desert nomads and the settled easterners, and the people who are still technically ethnically Nehekaran

[naive abyss]

Also myrmidia is a key goddess in araby

[upper canopy]

Settled WESTERNERS, sorry

[naive abyss]

It's where the order of the blazing sun has its origins

[thin ibex]

where from? Were there like... novels? or just numerous snippets from other places?

[upper canopy]

Snippets yeah

Maybe some novels

that setting existed for like 40 years

[naive abyss]

Allot of it is the age of myth novels for khemri

[tepid stratus]

I'm assuming the extra lore is from snippets in the WHFRP books

[naive abyss]

Cuz araby is sorta attached at the hip lore wise to khemri

[tepid stratus]

Those seem to be packed with all sorts of lore callouts you don't get anywhere else

[thin ibex]

thats pretty cool, nice to know theres extra lore

[naive abyss]

Also araby is referenced allot in vamp lore

[floral herald]

That’s often the case I think I think, they cover a lot of stuff normal books don’t need to

[naive abyss]

Since almost all vamps to one degree or another originate from the south

[thin ibex]

i actually have, of all things, a DnD campaign thats set in pre-settra awakening Araby and Khemri. Using the darker dungeons book to modify it and such. talked about it here earlier mostly cause i was considering rebooting it inside of one of warhammers own TTRPG systems

was pitched as effectively a tomb raiding and ancient mummy vibed campaign

[tepid stratus]

As I recall a bunch of Cathay lore is lifted from the RPG books

[thin ibex]

where they'd awaken settra and set in motion some world changing shit because they wanted treasure

[naive abyss]

Which pre settra reawakening?

[thin ibex]

how do you mean?

[naive abyss]

Cuz that can be during sigmars time or various points much closer to the original settings current day

Like settra has awoken various times then slumbered again lol

[thin ibex]

so plan was to mess with the timeline a bit

and set things at a closer to modern era, as if he'd not necessarily been woken up yet, in order to generate a classic tomb robbers awaken the mummy moment

from there it would cascade into a mass awakening of the dead in khemri and a sequence of fleeing towards al-haikk

and then a mystic plan to find some Things™️ that would help them put settra back to rest

or not, and dealing with the global consequences of settra deciding he's down to be a great conqueror again

i explained before a bit, but obv because players will have a greater say, its 100% an alternative timeline with any number of variances to support the plot

sadly the campaign got cancelled with the passing of a player, but recently the party has expressed an interest in possibly picking it back up

effectively its an adventure plotline of disparate souls looking to make their fortune on the gold of a long dead empire, but getting far more than they bargained for

using settra, araby, and the setting as a backdrop/vehicle

but thats also a bit why i was keen on seeing if i could use an existing warhammer ttrpg ruleset instead on the second round

despite 5e being the system the group is most familiar with

[naive abyss]

I mean that doesn't really need to modify the timelinelol

Like he's often asleep in oldhammer

[thin ibex]

well there are a few things id have to be cognizant of, 1 being relative tech level of the explorers matching or near-matching modern Empire people, 2. That Settra had united nehekara and defeated Nagash by 111 IC, and has his fleet rebuilt by then. He doesn't declare another age of expansion until 2522 IC though so there are large spaces of time

[naive abyss]

In theory the most active he got in that period was end times and him grudge matching nagash

[thin ibex]

the biggest thing is coinciding the relative tech levels, the relative mystery of Nehekhara, and the status of Nehekhara's military upon discovery by would be explorers

[naive abyss]

Storm the modern year in like og fantasy is like 3250 ic or so as memory serves

[thin ibex]

yeah, but also nehekhara is more known to various factions as you get closer to the actual modern era

[naive abyss]

Like the age of three emperors is about 2750

[naive abyss]

Ehhh not by much

[thin ibex]

like straight up fleet battles with brettonia in 1175 and alliances with elves in 666

[naive abyss]

Like its like lustria

People know theirs angry skeletons but that's about it

I feel you're conflating large scale lore to being common knowledge

[thin ibex]

The main thing is these explorers need to be fairly ignorant of what they're going into; and the leader of the expedition is a well informed person

his ambition being to be the first expedition to come back alive from the mysterious land of the dead

and offering great pay to any desperate souls willing to brave them

[naive abyss]

That's not hard even in the modern setting

Like just like with lustria people vaguely know it's dangerous, filled with gold, and maybe has heard some crazy stories in a tavern

Like the high elves are mysterious to imperial citizens

[thin ibex]

I suppose, but there's a disconnect for me if these guys show up and disturb the tomb, but there are already loads of undead guardians and stuff beforehand, and the only thing they're awakening is settra themselves; on account of part of hte narrative beat is initiating a cascading set of events that will inflict the legions of the tomb kings on the whole world lest they act to fix their mistake

[naive abyss]

I mean there aren't

When a tomb sleeps it sleeps

Like allot of the time nekhera looks abandoned outside of the few nomad groups that live there

Cuz when the rulers slumber so do their armies usually

[thin ibex]

we never actually made it to the white pyramid or Khemri proper, were mid crossing of the desert

but I do think that in reworking it

i would be better off starting with their arrival to the tomb

with a largely uneventful or only mildly dangerous journey to get there

that way the BBEG as settra gets introduced early

and their flight across the desert has some impetus

[naive abyss]

Tbh with whfrp you could just have it be innocuous stuff lol

"Oh no something got into the provisions"

[thin ibex]

and i can do a sequence about convincing the sultan of al haikk or copher about the danger and preparing to be attacked, followed by an either epic city defense or a sprint for the ports

i played with hte idea of them being like... mega cursed for doing the thing, so that if they don't fix the problem their souls are bound to nehekhara (to ensure they don't decide to say "fuck it" and sailing for distant lands only to get picked off individualy when tomb kings track them down to get their stuff back

but i think starting at the city outskirts, getting to do some dungeon crawling, face off against traps and constructs and maybe bandits who followed them, followed by breaching settra's own tomb in the most expensive looking pyramid there

cue lots of shaking and scaries, settra prolly kills an important npc in some suitably horrific fashion, and as they run they can see the city unearthing itself from the sand all around them

which system did you think would be good for it?

warhammer fantasy roleplay?

is it oriented more towards combat or happy to do both combat and narrative?

[naive abyss]

Both combat and narrative imo

Especially since you want them running away

Like they'll have to be a higher power party relatively speaking for whfrp to be able to handle like constructs or what have you but that's an easy thing to make char gen do lol

[thin ibex]

thats cool

and yeah my hope/and intent was to run this as a bit gritty and a bit low power

to ensure that settra is truly terrifying

or starting gritty/low power

and ramping up

i guess settra is believably terrifying for all but the strongest of foes anyway huh

so starting things at mid or low mid levels would be fine

and frankly if you're joining up to go somewhere where no one has been recorded as returning from, you probably have some skills to your name

[naive abyss]

Yeah you're likely not a rat catcher

Basically at char gen I'd say just let them pick their jobs but still give them xp I'd say

And if you don't want to risk all humans also allow race selection

As a clarifier you usually roll for both

[thin ibex]

ahhh ok

yeah that was a needed clarification lol

[naive abyss]

Yeah you more or less roll. Take what you get or sacrifice some start xp in various ways to more directly decide what you get.

Tbh once you've glanced at a pdf it'll make sense either way

It even notes about how to do higher power groups

[thin ibex]

cool cool

this ones on the backburner but it seems promising to use a warhammer system for warhammer campaign

[naive abyss]

Lol

[thin ibex]

would it surprise you to know I did a whole ass campaign primer way back when that adapted DnD stuff to Warhammer; effectively compromising warhammer accuracy to mesh better and allow more choices

[naive abyss]

This does not surprise me lol

It is the pitfall many in the hobby fall into

[thin ibex]

oh does WHFRP have stuff for tomb kings or would that be homebrew territory

[upper canopy]

There's mummies and skeletons

but the closest it ever came was the Border Princes

[naive abyss]

yeah as of now theres no supplements for that

[lofty warren]

They should make a new dogs of war

[naive abyss]

while i agree thats a very niche faction and would probably be best saved for after other factions lol

[jaunty dawn]

technically regiments of renown has come back

but not to the extent of the originals

[naive abyss]

also dogs of war were distinct from the renown regiments if memory serves

[jaunty dawn]

and it's still like. why you can soup giants

they're not synonymous terms but they're related

ror were like named mercenary units

but dogs of war also had generic mercenaries

my dad has these

they don't line up very wel haha

cool models though

Manhide's Manflayers

metal

[pastel rampart]

Yeah, lotta oldhammer sculpts just do not rank up well.

Tho some relatively new stuff didn't either. Bloodletters sure as heck don't.

[jaunty dawn]

the ones with the sword trailing back is my favourite sculpt of them

[lofty warren]

no

all other warhammer priorities should be subordinate to my glorious whims

[naive abyss]

lol

[dense sedge]

Spoken like a true fan

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/187y6ct/ironkin_ancestors_wrath/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[proud wing]

so what's the infrastructure of the traitor space marines

every other faction has some sort of civilian population (or magic energy source) to get their supplies from

do they just get all of their rations/weapons/supplies/recruits from imperial planets they raid?

[zinc field]

The infrastructure is "Let's stuff a demon in it"

[proud wing]

but aren't there some that aren't really associated with the demons

[naive abyss]

my honest response is you are thinking more in depth about it than the writers usually attend or thought about it themselves lol

warhammer in all its forms is more a "this is cool and we dont care if it makes no logistical sense" sorta thing usually

its why bolters have recoil

and shells

[thin ibex]

You got a few ingredients with traitor marine infrastructure tbh

[naive abyss]

though tbh i dont think most traitor marines need to eat

[runic swallow]

Night Lords is basically just raids, some have connections to the Dark Mechanicus, and I’d guess lots of contracts with the Iron Warriors

[naive abyss]

theyre sorta kept together on an individual basis via dark magic and spite

[runic swallow]

I mean they still need bullets and spare parts

[thin ibex]

One of the main things though is the warp is literally the stuff of magic and creation and stuff.

Aside from that they do conduct raids and looting

There are also unholy populations of slaves and so on in the warp, and there are dark pacts between the legions, for example I'm pretty sure the dark Mechanicus and the iron warriors do a lot of material production for the csm

Not necessarily in the same volume as the loyalists, csm do tend to be highly veteran and under supplied

[naive abyss]

i think its mostly dark mech and vashtorr

as memory serves the IW dont like to share

[thin ibex]

I figure it's less sharing and more transactional

[naive abyss]

share is more meant in the sense of "no this is mine go away"

than literally giving stuff away for free

[runic swallow]

The sharing was more HH era when they were the only guys running logistics, now it’s probably just “so what’s in it for me”

[floral herald]

So some of this is gonna depend on the legion

But the Word Bearers and Iron Warriors just maintain their own industry and civilian populations

Under despotic tyranny ofc, but that's really no different

[runic swallow]

Night Lords are the murderous crust punks of the Legions

[thin ibex]

Yall have made me decide to do some csm listing tonight maybe

[floral herald]

The Black Legion is now the de facto ruler of much of the Imperium Nihilus

(Along with their various allies)

[thin ibex]

Wanna do a very "beleaguered veterans" list if I can get that to present in list building

[floral herald]

And there's whole dark mechanicus forge worlds and such

[runic swallow]

IW are the guys running full on factories outside/with the Dark Mechanicus

[thin ibex]

I think the more like heavily God aligned legions often get sustained by their deity

[floral herald]

CSM also get to cheat because they fight in and around the warp so much and can do crazy paradox shit like get their past selves as reinforcements

[runic swallow]

And yeah, a lot of it is also running loyalists for their foams

[floral herald]

Groups like the World Eaters are a little more complicated but broadly speaking have a support network of aligned Khornate bands and servants

[thin ibex]

They do have trouble otherwise making new marines don't they? Theft of progenoids being a high value objective?

[floral herald]

The World Eaters are kind of viewed as like... crazy absolutist Khornate extremists to emulate and help

[runic swallow]

Sometimes in a more literal version like the night lords, sometimes in a more “has packed up the entire armory on pallets” form if the IW or Black Legion

[floral herald]

But they still maintain robust recruiting pipelines (their apothecaries use tons of drugs to stay sane enough to do the surgery and rituals)

[runic swallow]

Or are just that horrifying dead inside Red Corsair sociopath like in the Night Lords book

[floral herald]

There's some I'm not so sure of like how the Emperor's Children do it (shattered legion+nolore) or the Thousand Sons, but I assume the Tsons can just magic up resources

[runic swallow]

I think they can do magic repairs, like a slower Necron repair

[floral herald]

The Emperor's Children do have the advantage of being aligned at least somewhat with Fabulous Bill, the galaxies number 1 space marine expert

[runic swallow]

He’s more interested in his New Men now though

C’mon GW, make Gene Hound models already

[floral herald]

No no Mew Men is good

[runic swallow]

Look, I know what that’s gonna trigger on this server

[floral herald]

My white hot prediction take is that Codex: Emperor's Children is gonna ship with Fabius Bile's New Astartes as a CSM version of Primaris Space Marines

[runic swallow]

I mean what I think makes the New Men/Gene Hounds cool is that they aren’t Astartes, since they’re both male and female, and also work using pack tactics compared to the Space marine “lone supersoldiers”

Basically doing that Agincourt thing of “grab the fucker and stab him in the joints” but more systematized and they also steal their organs

[proud wing]

well the thousand sons are explicitly allied with tzeentch

so he can just hook them up with that infinite god juice

[floral herald]

The chaos gods aren't usually very doting masters though

Maybe tzeentch is different

I know the Tsons actively recruit but because of Ahriman's little present they can only recruit psykers

[proud wing]

i mean...they like having military forces

i'm sure they would want their elite supersoldiers to not die of hunger or lack of ammo or whatever

[desert jay]

Tson logistics might be “are you a sorcerer or not?”

[floral herald]

Yeah for Rubrics all you really need is ammo and transport

And a sorcerer to command them

[runic swallow]

I dunno if they even use bullets

Isn’t it some warpified ammo?

[desert jay]

I think you can make new dusty boys if you REALLY want to

[floral herald]

It is, iirc its magically enhanced bolt shells

[floral herald]

You can yeah, it's just less necessary cause its easier to put old ones back together

But even so the 1ksons are really quite small

They're the smallest surviving legion

[desert jay]

Look sometimes there’s not enough of the old one to put back together

[floral herald]

I think you can use magic to do it anyway if that happens

I really want codex EC soon haha

The AoS Slaanesh stuff whips

[desert jay]

EC codex prolly gonna be later in the edition I think

[floral herald]

Oh yeah I can't hold my breath

It'd be

...Excessive

[desert jay]

Sometimes literally!

[naive abyss]

They have plenty of those lol

[floral herald]

I saw this online a bit ago and its a very inspiring EC set of models

[naive abyss]

Tbh tzeentch and the tsons generally have a combative relationship imo

[floral herald]

@sour sequoia showed it to me

[naive abyss]

But yeah traitor marines are far from the only military the chaos gods have

It's not even their largest one lol

[floral herald]

The chaos gods also do want to keep them around but they also aren't like usually caring

So if nothing else they're gonna moderate support based on devotion and success and such

And want to harrow them until they're as lethal as possible and such

(This doesn't apply so much to Nurgle, who just heaps his blessings on anyone who'll say a nice word about him)

(But hey, it also helps the Death Guard be a huge ass chaos legion)

[thin ibex]

"Blessings" of course

In that you'll get violently ill and eventually only be alive by the grace of nurgle

[dense sedge]

I honestly find the chaos cults more interesting than csm, accursed cultists and dark commune are some of my favorite kits in all 40k

[floral herald]

Yeah those are super good ones

Dark Commune has probably the coolest kit with some of the lamest fucking rules

Not that they're bad, but an HQ unit with a special rule which says "these guys suck and your main dudes hate them: they can't be your Warlord" is funny for a super cool centerpiece kit"

[dense sedge]

i'd be more interested in a lost and the damned faction than CSM, I do like thousand sons though, some of the best lore in 40k to me

[thin ibex]

I really do wish they could be a Warlord

[floral herald]

I like CSM but lost and the damned is probably my biggest hope for a future faction

[thin ibex]

I would love to make a mostly cultist list with "basic marines as elites"

A la alpha legion

With their constructed cult front

Or sponsored insurgents

[naive abyss]

For chaos that or dark mech for me

Since I know chaos xenos of some kind would be even more of a pipe dream lol

[untold swallow]

Not me realizing bolters are what amount to giant recoilless rifles (the actual weapon variety, not 'rifle that doesn't have recoil') with box mags

[naive abyss]

Bolts are gyro rounds lol

Like they're theoretically rocket propelled

[untold swallow]

wait no it's not a recoilless rifle

I'm a dumbass

[naive abyss]

Hell people have been arguing about lasguns for years lol

[untold swallow]

I'm not even gonna bother

It's a laser

No method of producing a visible-spectrum laser produces an effect analogous to recoil

Just accept that it makes no sense and move on with your life

as for bolters

I have a stupid reason they make sense as having recoil

There are in fact trials going on in special weapons testing of bullet projectiles capable of altering their flightpath, both via fins and via onboard secondary propellant

Space Marines use D.A.R.P.A. rounds and it makes sense, fuck you

XD

[naive abyss]

They don't

They're literally rocket propelled explosive rounds

That very much cannot correct mid vector lol

[untold swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/shhh-quiet-dont-talk-gif-14255118

[naive abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[untold swallow]

lol

[desert jay]

WRT lost and damned, I think I would even settle for a traitor guard detachment that that can take daemons instead of agents

(Agents/daemons literal wording is "if every model in your army has Imperium/Chaos keyword" so it just needs a rule that swaps keywords)

Of course it would still need a properly cool detachment rule, "can take daemons" would be like a sidebar rule

[floral herald]

Maybe overwrought for a detachment rule but something like the Blooded tokens the Blooded KT gets would be cool

(Pick a unit each turn which gets some buffs, units which wipe out an enemy also gain tokens, having 2+ tokens yields more buffs)

[tired cairn]

It's basically reverse grudge tokens, so probably a reasonable amount of complicated

[floral herald]

That is true, though that is an army rule not a detachment rule

Though the astra militarum’s army rule doesn’t make as much sense for most chaos forces imo

[weary dragon]

https://vxtwitter.com/mixuen_chan/status/1730197842659328472

[pulsar cairn]

someone posted that before but i don't care

it terrifies me and i love it

[wide wind]

Dork Angles

[ebon forge]

Question, i am being too sinical by laughing my ass off in some parts of 'betrayer'?

LikE
good book, I been engaged by it
but sometime is just
"So we lost Angron" and "He started to ree with his mouth full of rocks"

[unreal cosmos]

Just fyi I think that ree jokes are discouraged here

[bright dove]

Betrayer gives us the most cathartic moment

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/bym9tb/book_excerpt_betrayer_khârn_and_erebus_settling_a/

[naive abyss]

This reminds me that one of the most redeeming moments for perty to me is the time he kicked the shit out of fulgrim lol

[pastel rampart]

Fulgrim is the penultimate "destroy that twink" figure in 40k.

[naive abyss]

In the most literal sense too

[pastel rampart]

Very much, yeah.

[naive abyss]

It's even one of my fave khan moments

When he just roasts that fucker

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/TheBrushSmith/status/1730532476890607742

[naive abyss]

Tbh chaos warriors are the best advert

Very few of them are having a bad time I feel lol

[pastel rampart]

Fantasy chaos warriors are always having a grand ol' time.

[naive abyss]

Lol yeah

Reminds me of a vid I posted here the other day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvTkbXzEhNg&ab_channel=VoicesByZane

[pastel rampart]

I'm looking forward to painting my chaos warriors soon. I'm almost done with the chorfs--just about finished a unit of blunderbussers and a unit of berserkers, and just have some chorf centaurs to do and they'll be finished. Inasmuch as any army is truly finished, I guess.

[thin ibex]

This feel like a solid starting Crusade/1k list?

i kinda like the chaos pred destructor as a generalist platform with sponson lascannons

raptors im not sure about, but i think saving them for deepstrike can be a useful thing

melee legionaries im a bit iffy about, but i think they're useful as a tertiary mid field objective melee threat

since the cultists will nominally be on backline objectives

[spice flicker]

If you're using cultist to hold the home objective and not screen deep strike you should be fine with just 1 mob.

Also any particular reason for the land raider?

Have you considered swapping the destructor+one cultist mob for a forgefiend?

[thin ibex]

land raider is ferrying the champion/chosen into CQC, and represents narratively the mobile HQ of the crusade; its also a powerful and resilient anti tank platform that most things will struggle to efficiently destroy

and, honestly not really? I don't know that the forgefiend is worth giving up that much map presence, especially when it doesn't come with any str 12 shooting. That's not to say it's not an excellent model, but I don't find it interesting for either the theme or build plan

the other reason to have so many cultists is mostly to communicate strong cult presence, beyond chaff light infantry

if it scales up to 2k in play (should i ever play this in crusade) I'd go on to add the dark commune and possibly traitor guardsmen

[naive abyss]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/01/the-advent-engine-1st-december-2023/

[thin ibex]

and I realize the predator is hardly meta, but i also don't think its particularly bad in its own right, even if overshadowed

comes with a lot of weapons on board, with the ability to engage a fair range of enemies

with crusade honors, it can very easily, i think, shine

I do think the chaos land raider is just good, and possibly even meta for csm atm

[floral herald]

Yeah the chaos land raider is solid

Relevant firepower, hard to shift

[pulsar cairn]

[thin ibex]

assault ramp is such a sexy rule too

[floral herald]

I think the Vindicator is more meta but it’s good

[pulsar cairn]

does a land raider becomes a sea raider when underwater?

[thin ibex]

nope, it just drives on the land at the bottom xD

[floral herald]

Nope, Arkan Sea didn’t find the STC

[pulsar cairn]

aw

[thin ibex]

Arkan Sea, Arkan Lands oft forgotten 2nd cousin

honestly, from a meta perspective, my most questionable picks are the pred, the extra cultists, and melee legionaries

but as far as flavor, i think they all work

I WAS considering bringing a vindicator instead of the pred, cause the big siege shield is sick

[floral herald]

Melee legionaries used to be really meta in 9E

[thin ibex]

but the pred feels iconic, and that it can bring several tiers of strength with its shooting is nice

[floral herald]

I’m not sure which it is now

Probably still melee but not for midline objective holding

Which legionaries are kind of mid at anyway

[thin ibex]

i think with access to the heavy weapon like AT, and dark pacts, shooting is prolly more meta for them atm

they have decent OC and can stand around with a big gun or two

not really meant to do the heavy lifting with the murder

chosen and chaos termies are much killier

i went with chosen instead of termies largely cause they feel more like hardened veteran types

while chaos termies feel more... specialized?

[floral herald]

On the other hand the CSM stratagem list skews melee and legionaries assaulting an objective get full rerolls to wound

[thin ibex]

yeah thats a bit why i took em, effectively making them a assault intercessor squad but come with 2 heavy melee options instead of 1

just don't have the budget to give them a taxi, so unlike their veteran bros, they have to walk

but i think they get rr 2 wound on their shooting at enemies on objectives too right?

[floral herald]

Just melee on waha

[thin ibex]

Mmm ok

I think they're most fun but least efficient if you hybrid/mixnmatch em

Bring the book guy, both heavy ranged and melee guys, bring a good melee on the sarge

[floral herald]

No that’s pretty valid

[tepid stratus]

Melee legionaries are good if you're willing to run a 10 man with a character like Lucius, MoE or an exalted champ. Otherwise 5 man's with bolters and a heavy gun (I'm partial to the lascannon but I've seen people prefer the chaincannon) and mark of tzeentch can spook people

10 legionaries with Lucius AND a MoE can swing deceptively hard above its weight and fights first from Lucius let's them bully people trying to charge them. Really good unit for holding objectives that aren't out in the open

[thin ibex]

What I like about my theme list is that while it's obviously making compromises for flavor and personal taste, it IS still bringing solutions to a range of problems

Meaning is not entirely out there with its pants down even if it's by no means competetive

(Which is usually what I want to do with my theme lists anyway)

Favor the theme but bring answers, even if they're not the best answer, to a range of predictable issues

[floral herald]

Yeah it looks solid

[tepid stratus]

If you can find the points to swap the exalted champ for a lord that would be my only suggestion. I just really dig the lord and his chosen Bois both visually and mechanically

[thin ibex]

My thought was that like, the crusade starts with a smaller, less important set of dudes, and the lord shows up and gets added to the roster as things become more serious, gets added in at the 2k scale or something

But lord was actually my first pick before I thought "maybe he'd send a trusted lieutenant first"

It'd be cool to be able to upgrade the exalted champ into a lord using crusade points somehow

[mental birch]

Silly idea I had

Repentia

converted into electropriests

[thin ibex]

It's the same reasoning I used with my wolf spears prospective crusade, in that I figure I'd start with a lieutenant as a less "big man in charge" guy and work my way up to a captain

Though on that list it's a bit weird to have 2 lieutenants in the same task force I guess (brought a phobos lieutenant and lieutenant with combi weapon)

[spice flicker]

I think if I was ever part of a crusade and started at 1k points I would go with one of the lists below though which idk:

Imperial list #1:
1x Knight Warden with stubber, gauntlet and unyielding paragon (warlord)
2x warglaives with meltagun
1x helverin with stubber
970/1000 points

Imperial list #2:
1x Knight Gallant with melta (warlord)
2x warglaives with meltagun
2x helverin with stubber
1000/1000 points

Chaos List #1:
1x Knight Despoiler with double battle cannons, stubber, and aura of terror (warlord)
2x war dog Brigands
1x war dog Karnivore
970/1000 points

Chaos List #2:
1x Knight Tyrant (castellan loadout) (warlord)
1x war dog brigands
2x war dog karnivores
995/1000 points

Chaos List #3
1x war dog stalker (chain cannon + slaughterclaw)
2x war dog brigands
2x war dog huntsman
1x war dog Karnivore
The Changeling
1000/1000 points

Any suggestions on which 1k list would be best to go with in general for a crusade?

[soft willow]

For winning or for cool factor?

[thin ibex]

honestly whichever you like most, but i wouldn't bring a named character cause they don't get xp

[soft willow]

Because Chaos #3 will absolutely roll things.

[thin ibex]

crusade isn't a competetive format, and honestly I feel like playing really competetively in crusade is almost bad manners

unless everyone's on the same page i guess

but its a lot more about having your guys and them getting experience and doing cool stuff ( which knights of both imperial and chaos variety are already good for )

[spice flicker]

Both tbh

[spice flicker]

I wasn't aware of that as I'm inexperienced with crusades.

[spice flicker]

Is that so?

[spice flicker]

I understand and that is why one list has a despoiler with double battle cannons (favorite loadout for that model) and another has a tyrant which is my favorite chaose knight.

[floral herald]

I’d just go for chaos #2 then

Crusade groups are at their best when people are bringing credible lists of models they like

It’s not a super balanced format so bringing “tournament ready” meta TAC lists combined with the weird life spirals and semi-balanced rewards can make the format really capricious and unpleasant

[thin ibex]

id say bring the one with your favorite personally, a neat thing with crusade is units gain experience and you can empower them over the crusade, meaning you can make a less optimal model much more powerful over time

obviously you could make strong units stronger, but i think its more fun when it enables the use of "bad" units

[floral herald]

yeah

[spice flicker]

I see

So go with CK2 but if I wanted to say go with CK3 but replace Changeling what would you suggest for the 90 points?

(I do like the Changeling but am willing to swap him out in CK3 for now)

[thin ibex]

hmm

[spice flicker]

I don't have nor want to ever have anything nurgle so nurglings are out

No offense nurgle fans but nurgle daemons and 40k death guard are too gross for my taste.

[thin ibex]

could do flamers

[spice flicker]

Maybe

[thin ibex]

potential WE blood crusade list

WE seem very straightforward to play

[floral herald]

They are

They have like 1 trick and they're good at it

[thin ibex]

i was gonna bring a pred annihilator but then i was like

why would i bring a weapons platform that can't also melee

so hellbrute it was

it was that or a defiler

[soft willow]

Armigers/Wardogs are just very good and at smaller points levels your opponents have fewer tools to handle them.

Current competitive Chaos Knights lists are all Wardogs with a splash of demons.

[spice flicker]

I see

[brittle salmon]

Chaos Knights also just have superior quality small boys compared to Imperials

[thin ibex]

iirc chaos knights have better lil guys and knights trend to have better buff support for lil guys

and that trend also carries into the bigger knights

[brittle salmon]

And being able to splash from a real army rather than the fairly middling stuff you get out of Agents is also a big boon

[thin ibex]

?

[brittle salmon]

Yeah basically

[spice flicker]

IK focuses more on the synergy between the buffs of big guys to armigers while CK focuses on the knights being more independent but benefiting from buffs when needed. (Desecrator+brigands combo for example)

[proud wing]

my main hangup with chaos knights is that all their current faction rules are built around "battle-shock"

which seems like a not very impactful mechanic

and giant death robots don't seem like their specialty would be inflicting some damage without quite killing the enemy

[thin ibex]

the main thing is that its quite impactful regarding normal battleshock tests, but battleshock-on-your-turn effects are generally rather weak

especially since insane bravery can only be used on your command phas

but also in general a lot of things

have too much bravery

[brittle salmon]

Insane Bravery is also only once per game now

So battleshock effects are generally better

[spice flicker]

I do find the idea that CK can just run all armigers while IK can't to be kinda funny.

[brittle salmon]

Armigers really need Armsman buffs to be good

At baseline they are just lower quality units compared to War Dogs

[thin ibex]

i do like the idea of bringing 3 allied armigers in a space marine or guard army, but without the buff its a taller ask

whereas bringing war dogs in a non knight list for chaos is a bit more amenable

[jaunty dawn]

did the new admech codex do anything for knights

[spice flicker]

I just don't like how the Tyrant/Castellan isn't as good as it once was and the Valiant is only really good when granted the mysterious guardian enhancment.

[jaunty dawn]

I haven't seen a writeup

[brittle salmon]

The bigger Knights from a competitive standpoint have never been the most effective things to take

Not much has really changed there

[thin ibex]

i feel like the castellan is still a worthy gun platform it just struggles from eggs and basket

[jaunty dawn]

plasma knight was in peak soup 8e

[thin ibex]

valiant i feel has never been great as the closer ranged cousin, but i do think the harpoon is hilarious

and would run it almost just for that

[brittle salmon]

The more objective focused a game is, the less valuable a super big model is

And 10e is not at all a "just table the other guy" edition

Like 8e was

[jaunty dawn]

I got scammed so hard by 8e admech xT

[thin ibex]

yeah i think the castellans problems are less statistical and more the objective focus of the game shifting. Well that and its just a lot of points focused into one spot

[spice flicker]

Well the cast's plasma gun isn't as dangerous as it might seem and the fact the valiant can't overwatch with its super flamer means tagging it in melee to prevent mysterious guardian redeploy is painful.

[thin ibex]

yeah thats true

[brittle salmon]

There's also the fact that because Knights are so top heavy, putting points into a big thing is more opportunity cost lost than it would be for say, Guard

Since Guard can spam 65pt 10 man objective holders until the cows come home

[spice flicker]

Which is why you need to make sure to get your points worth before the big guys go down.

[thin ibex]

i guess a way to reword my thought is that the castellan is still quite a powerful model in its own right, its just not well suited for the current game state

[brittle salmon]

^

[thin ibex]

cause i don't think the castellan has any issues generally blasting stuff to smithereens

[jaunty dawn]

knights are in a awkward place and the biggy knights just emphasise the sticking points

they're the opposite of armigers

[brittle salmon]

And a Baneblade for Guard is a hell of a centrepiece

[thin ibex]

i love how

useful the baneblade actually kinda is

by being so tough and shooty, but also generally handing out cover like candy

[brittle salmon]

The Baneblade's secret sauce is it can actually obscure your other vehicles too

So it's a very strong armoured column centrepiece

[thin ibex]

i only hesitate to put it in a 1k point list

but at 2k?

bets are off

i have only a shadowsword though

painted by me pops

i still owe yall a pick of it at some point

its painted like a valhallan tank

[brittle salmon]

👀

[thin ibex]

(he's not a warhammer hobbiest, mainly does model cars n stuff, but i got it for him years ago as a present)

and as part of an ambition to run guard/marine soup back in the day

its the one with a broken lascannon cause of storage issues

shadowsword is pretty gnarly tbh, even if its a bit too powerful for most reasonable enemy types

it'll certainly delete single targets nicely

better make every save

[spice flicker]

The baneblade with a titan weapon for a main cannon

[brittle salmon]

The Volcano Cannon is so powerful even 2+ units without cover physically can't make the save

[thin ibex]

its just a hilarious amount of str and damage lol

[brittle salmon]

And uh, the thing is

[thin ibex]

str 24, dmg 12

[brittle salmon]

It's not just one shot

It's D3+1

[thin ibex]

2 minimum

at 3+ if it didn't move

and command rerolls are worth it when it comes to the big guy

[brittle salmon]

Straight up the best vehicle killer in the game, no question

[thin ibex]

my dad likes the look of hte fixed gun on tanks more than the turreted look, is i think why he built it

being a swede, he vibes with the old S-tank

[spice flicker]

Understandable as the rogal looks a little silly at times

[thin ibex]

he only had/has a minimal understanding of the lore behind the stuff

honestly I like the rogal! It's really grown on me

[spice flicker]

Ever shown him the gaunts ghosts books?

It is a nice tank but seems almost too tall

Kinda a shame the mammoth tank (inspired by the same tank from Command and Conquer) was legend'd.

40k

C&C

Before the Falchion/Mammoth tank was thrown into legends I was almost inspired to do a GDI themed SM army.

Though Tau actually work a bit better for Tiberium Sun/Tiberium Wars GDI tbh while GSC are great proxies for the Brotherhood of Nod.

[thin ibex]

platoon command squad attaches to any of the existing infantry options right

?

[brittle salmon]

Yup

I really hope the standard infantry squad doesn't go the way of the dodo when the codex drops

[thin ibex]

ok cool, newrecruit is missing some text but i remembered that they do

i like it as the generalist pick

[brittle salmon]

I don't want the regiment variants

[thin ibex]

i don't have the regiment variants as being a bit more specialized myself

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1730601053379330355?t=s9pYPhbHAGSC6a7d7eAL_Q&s=19

[thin ibex]

got a buddy who only wants to get into guard specifically because of catachans

[brittle salmon]

The deal-breaker for me is no heavy weapons

[spice flicker]

The key to being a good guard player: channel your inner Greogy Zhukov or Stalin and just throw hordes of tanks and infantry at the foe until the enemy is drowned in bodies.

[pastel rampart]

The other key is to drown the enemy in explosives.

[pastel rampart]

Back when templates were a thing, you'd often end up rolling more scatter die than to-hits.

[thin ibex]

valhallan list built around the shadowsword, for fun

posing the DK as valhallans

because grim demeanor was a valhallan thing too

Lottttta indirect fire

big chunky 30 infantry guys

flamers and grenades all around just like chenkov would've liked it

[pastel rampart]

I occasionally get a bug about wanting to do an Armageddon Steel Legion army but then I think about how many tanks that would be and it's like

yyyyyeah maybe not.

(unless it was Epic scale then hell yes)

[thin ibex]

they're more about mechanized infantry no? Lots of chimeras and light tanks en mass?

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

They do have a fair amount of tanks tho, buncha lemans chugging along. As well as hellhounds.

[thin ibex]

hellhounds are fun

i dunno if they're meta, but i like running em because screw actually rolling to hit

[pastel rampart]

Ah yeah looking them up again they mostly follow standard guard make-up with a lot of chimeras being the notable standout part.

Each regiment raised on Armageddon is composed of twelve companies, typically a mix of infantry, armour, artillery and mechanised infantry. Infantry and mechanised infantry companies consist of a command section, a fire support platoon with 10 heavy weapons teams, and three infantry platoons of 50 soldiers each, including 5 heavy weapons teams. At full strength a company would have 175 soldiers, though casualties suffered during battle will quickly reduce this.[2a] Tank and artillery companies consist of a command vehicle and three squadrons or batteries of three vehicles each.[2a] Super-heavy tank companies are composed of three super-heavy vehicles.[2b]

Additional units can also be attached to a company to function as part of their organic structure. These include a fire support platoon, an infantry platoon, a tank squadron, a Hellhound squadron, a Griffon battery, a Hydra flak tank, and/or a two-man Sniper or Ogryn team. Normal practice limits companies to three such attachments, and never more than one of each type.[2b]

Additional support units can be attached to regiments on an as-needed basis, normally restricted a maximum of two support formations per company.[2b] These attached units can include Rough Rider and Steel Legion Storm Trooper platoons, the latter often riding in four Valkyries per platoon; three-vehicle Hydra flak batteries and four-vehicle Sentinel squadrons; four-craft Vulture Gunship squadrons; and even Deathstrike Missile batteries, with two Deathstrike Missile Launchers per battery.

[thin ibex]

deathstrike is a unit id love to use on the guard that i know isn't great

[pastel rampart]

The Armageddon Steel Legion make use of Grenade Launchers and Missile Launchers. The preferred armoured vehicles are Leman Russ Battle Tanks, with Vanquishers serving as command vehicles, though they are known to include a few Leman Russ Executioners.[5a] Artillery is usually Basilisks, Bombards and Manticores, while super-heavy vehicles are typically Baneblades and Shadowswords.

[thin ibex]

really wish the damage was 2 instead of 1

[pastel rampart]

Deathstrike are more a fun unit than competitive, and that dates back to 3e.

[thin ibex]

yeah for sure

[pastel rampart]

Their range being "infinite" occasionally had silly multi-table shooting if people agreed to it.

Casually just drop one on an ork vs eldar game happening 3 tables over.

[thin ibex]

i still need to figure out how id work with a platoon commander dishing out orders from a chimera

That used to be a thing with basilisk 240" range too right?

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

Never any reason for it to have that range because who the fuck is playing on tables that big.

[thin ibex]

would actually be very funny

to play a game with tables bigger than that, but also would be such a friggen slog

"I move my army, they all advance, my turn is done"
"Ok, i do the same"

[pastel rampart]

That's basically Apocalypse at that point.

One of the LGS's around here used to run an apoc game once a year and they'd get all the tables together and after 8-10 hours they'd maybe be done with turn 2.

[thin ibex]

lol

i remember even reading the battle reports in white dward for apoc and thinking "this sounds like it took forever"

[pastel rampart]

Oh it does, there's not much of a point unless you're doing some multi-day thing and y'all just wanna throw the entire collection down on the table.

Epic does apoc better because it's designed for large-scale battles and it hasn't ever worked out well for 40k unless you're abstracting a lot of stuff.

[spice flicker]

Apocalypse games sound fun

I say as a knights player

[jaunty dawn]

apocalypse is cool

[spice flicker]

And excuse to take titans with points to spare

[thin ibex]

Quick and dirty steel legion list

[spice flicker]

What tool do you use for those lists?

[thin ibex]

Web app called newrecruit

[spice flicker]

I see

I mostly use battlescribe

[jaunty dawn]

it's the same data

[spice flicker]

Oh I know it's the format that caught my eye

[proud wing]

yeah newrecruit is way better than battlescribe

[desert jay]

Newrecruit quickly went from “promising” to “best in show”

[proud wing]

has anyone tried newrecruit's connected virtual tabletop thing?

I know playing Warhammer virtually on Tabletop Simulator is a thing, but getting mods for every unit in your army and getting everything set up properly seems like a big pain

[floral herald]

it is yeah

[thin ibex]

it can be somewhat more painless with yellowscribe and the battleforged pack

has the lions share of models for almost every unit in its diles

files

[elder rivet]

Im a player in a dark heresy 2e game again and I forgot how much I hate the acquisition of gear in this system. Anyone have some homebrew for this system lol

[upper canopy]

Can always steal the money system from 1e

[floral herald]

yeah

[elder rivet]

Wasnt the money system not great? I read some stuff on it and most seemed negative

Not to say the 2e requsition wasnt also majority negative

[naive abyss]

My somewhat joking suggestion is play imperium maledictum lol

[elder rivet]

Need to look into it more

[thin ibex]

maledictum looks like its fun

to be like bottom tier just like, folks

trying to do a thing

[naive abyss]

It's very much modern dark heresy yeah lol

[floral herald]

The money system was... fine but a lot of the prices were complete nonsense

But in a 40k appropriate way

I like how you could buy 100 bullets for the price of a cup of recaff

[elder rivet]

Better than raw where you can fail to req a las pack, or snub revolver bullets for example

[floral herald]

yeah the roll for goods thing sucks

The GM has to paper over so many cracks

[elder rivet]

My friend hit a 10 and I failed a 33 2x

And another had to spend his 2 reqs for hand cannon ammo

[elder rivet]

It seemed less crunchy and more TOTM

[naive abyss]

Totm?

[elder rivet]

Theatre of the mind

[naive abyss]

I mean ehhh

It's very much like whfrp 4e x dark heresy

Like you can definitely totm it

But it I think baseline assumes maps still I think

[elder rivet]

Oh gotcha. I got a brief overview from some secondhand article and it didnt seem exactly like what we wanted. Ill have to actually read lol

[unreal cosmos]

https://tortuga-gamestable.top/image/cache/catalog/0. Grim Dark 30k/0. G Legions 30%2B/GL104/GL104-0-1300x1300.jpg

[thin ibex]

Ima be real they don't look like they can even swing the hammers

[floral herald]

It's still pretty crunchy, though it subs out square/distance combat for zone based combat

Which is still pretty robust and map based

I think its a good change because frankly the movement rates were always whack in DH

[junior robin]

instilling a false sense of security, thats how they get you

[brittle salmon]

As were the ranges

[floral herald]

Yeah

In practice dark heresy was zone based 90% of the time

[pulsar cairn]

i stole briar's bunny while he wasnt looking the bunny is in this sack now i make my escape!

[elder rivet]

The difference between full move and run even though they cost the same amount of actions is frankly ridiculous

[jaunty dawn]

having the (default) option for zone based combat just means the totm is run consistently really

which is crunch in it's own way

[elder rivet]

Need to look into zone based combat

[jaunty dawn]

ironically our IM game was map/gridless based after having played years of RT without maps lmao

[floral herald]

This is the example given for a zone map

[jaunty dawn]

kinda funny how they drew pieces of gw terrain

[floral herald]

it is yeah

[elder rivet]

Oh this would all be 1 encounter? This is just a full lancer mission

[floral herald]

I'm not sure I follow

[brittle salmon]

This has nothing to do with Lancer

[floral herald]

But yes it would all be one encounter

[elder rivet]

I understand that im drawing parallels

[brittle salmon]

Yeah that's totally not a full Lancer mission either haha

[jaunty dawn]

that's

a shipping container haha

[brittle salmon]

That's one combat

[jaunty dawn]

don't think you're quite getting the scale here

[elder rivet]

IG not because that seems either really big or really small

[floral herald]

Yeah in scale this would be about the size of a lancer combat

A relatively small one I think

[elder rivet]

Oh so quite tiny

[jaunty dawn]

the door is like

[elder rivet]

I thought it was the other side of the spectrum where this would be like 300 meters

[floral herald]

A "Zone" should be roughly 5-10 meters across with poorly defined borders

[jaunty dawn]

wide but not much taller than a standard door

[elder rivet]

How do long range weapons work?

[jaunty dawn]

roughly speaking range is how many zones away you can engage

zones have like adjacency

so zone 2 is adjacent to 1, zone three is two zones away from one, etc

[floral herald]

Yeah

[spice flicker]

I am not a fan of quite a few of the csm models but the heldrake and greater brass scorpions are among my favorite 40k models.

[jaunty dawn]

short range is within the same zone

oh there's more that one image haha

and then stuff like grenades might hit an entire zone

[elder rivet]

Oh theres a 0% chance my group would adopt this

[jaunty dawn]

tbh I don't think I'd personally lay out zones like they did in the example haha

[floral herald]

Yeah I'm actually not a huge fan of those example zones

[jaunty dawn]

more an example of notation than anything

[floral herald]

I would have used more for anything but a perfunctory combat

yeah

[brittle salmon]

They're missing out

[elder rivet]

they like grids ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Also it describes long las as something thats rarely used unless its for narrative

[jaunty dawn]

nah it means that within combat engagement range the long las has effectively infinite range

in addition to that it can fire well beyond that. because it's a sniper and that's what they do haha

[elder rivet]

Whats the actual damage they do. The listed damage +d10?

[jaunty dawn]

listed damage plus success levels

you don't roll for damage

[elder rivet]

Oh strange

[jaunty dawn]

better shot means more damage /shrug

[floral herald]

Yeah most of the randomness is stored in attack rolls for IM

[jaunty dawn]

the game can do grid combat just fine. I guess

don't think I'd bother? gridless just works better I feel

[floral herald]

I think it might be weird to retrofit on - but dark heresy generally worked with zones kind of de facto since movement was both fast and action intensive

I like how the zones simplify targeting for some things too

[jaunty dawn]

basically the idea of zones is you just distill all the places on the map worth being and generally that's only gonna be a handful haha

so not really any reason not to just make it explicit

we played gridless cause we had minis and terrain

not that you can't do zones with terrain :)

[elder rivet]

I mean I get it for sure, and I dont doubt it works but I dont think I could get others on board who are grid enjoyers

[floral herald]

Like how this one torches a whole zone

[elder rivet]

Thats beeg

[jaunty dawn]

I think generally just like

idk like cyan says a lot of people were just playing the game this way or similar in the ffg days

purely anecdotal but I feel like both game systems support grid/less the same amount and neither assume it's the default I guess?

but that's just how I read the ffg books and that's influenced by how our group played haha

but yeah there's a brief section in the book that lays out how to use the IM range bands and such with measurements

whether that's in squares or just plain inches

[floral herald]

Oh cool

I totally missed that that’s great

[pastel rampart]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0CprctNLr8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

kryokinesi

Close encounters #warhammer #warhammer40k #wh40k #gamesworkshop #tyranids #tyranid #hivefleet #hivefleettiamet #xenomorph #xenos #spacemarines #imperialfists #hivetyrant #warriors

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[unreal cosmos]

oh that's gorgeous

[thin ibex]

I forget which sm codex was going to come out next?

[naive abyss]

DA i believe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3myneLCXnY&ab_channel=TraitorJim

[naive abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguesofVotann/comments/1889gn8/painted_this_guy_at_like_4am_pretty_happy_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[white mural]

Ordered a Genestealer cult combat patrol

[floral herald]

sick, gsc are cool

[white mural]

They are

Love some rebelling miners

God and 3 armed mama uwu

[thin ibex]

The have some of the coolest and most unique faction mechanics out there tbh

[cinder wraith]

somewhat related

can a space marine take the one ring to mordor and cast it into the flames?

[storm schooner]

Space Marines get corrupted by less

the ones ring could corrupt a space marine so easily

A grey Knight maybe, as they've had like more specific training against that kind of stuff

[upper canopy]

A space marine would get corrupted by the Palantir before they even got out of their house

[floral herald]

The ring’s corrupting influence is proportional to a bearers will to power - it’d saw right through a space marine pretty quickly

A GK is trickier since they’re infamously well trained to handle that sort of thing

They might just be wise enough to hand that shit to a sanctified servitor to “bear” it

[desert jay]

But what if we put it on a daemon sword so we could have a cool invisible sword?

[pulsar cairn]

what's a Palantir

what's that bearer will to power thing?

[junior robin]

https://tenor.com/view/saruman-palantir-gif-19765279

the crystal balls from lord of the ring

[pulsar cairn]

oooh

[tired cairn]

So would an ogryn be a good ringbearer?

[upper canopy]

Yes

100%

[thin ibex]

still wouldnt want to keep it for long, but they could get as least as far as frodo

might need a second ogryn to be sam at the finale

[junior robin]

ogryn golum would be really scary though

also ogryns being claustrophobic would also explain why they didnt just ride Storm Eagle Assault Gunships to mount doom

[naive abyss]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/02/the-advent-engine-2nd-december-2023/

Man these first two have me on copium for a new celestine lol

[tepid stratus]

I think Celestine is too new for a resculpt but It's definitely sisters or cities IMO

[naive abyss]

I know I just want a model that reflects her art more

And I'd love just a refresh of her and greyfax with them just becoming canon tbh

Also cuz I like their lore in both cases but the models are sorta lacking I feel

[tepid stratus]

Greyfax's model could definitely use more fire and brimstone instead of what amounts to a basic A pose

[naive abyss]

That and get rid of the heels i beg

[jaunty dawn]

a new living saint could be cool

[naive abyss]

Like both her and celestine suffer from the vestiges of old gw design philosophy for ladies in 40k

[naive abyss]

A generic living saint would be a vibe

But I do recognize that's probably just as much a pipe dream if not more so than s new celestine lol

[jaunty dawn]

I think celestine's model is a vibe they wouldn't want to like. replace?

[floral herald]

Is that crossed bones symbol an aos thing?

[jaunty dawn]

so I think if we do get a fire and brimstone living saint its more likely to come as a new character

[naive abyss]

Sabbat would be cool but I have no idea what her status is at this point

[naive abyss]

I mean tbh if they make her that it'll finally fit her art lol

Celestine that is

[jaunty dawn]

yeah ik

[naive abyss]

I think I've seen it in aos and 40k

[floral herald]

I don’t recognize it for 40K but there’s a lot of symbols

[naive abyss]

Im leaning to 40k cuz the skeleton has like what looks like a rebar through it

[jaunty dawn]

I think the cos release quite deliberately avoided any wax sealed parchment

there's a lot that are just nailed and one that has a metal badge type thing

and yeah it looks like pipes or something

I'd say dark angels maybe

don't they have a bunch of crossed symbols

[floral herald]

Same, but I wanted to make sure it wasn’t just a known aos symbol haha

[jaunty dawn]

the ends are like

cut into triangles though

which I don't think I've ever seen on a purity seal

[floral herald]

Hmm

That’s also pretty clearly a mutated skeleton

[jaunty dawn]

oh?

[naive abyss]

Is it?

[floral herald]

Funny shaped skull, left hand has humongous talons for fingers

[naive abyss]

I think that's part of the fire not talons

[floral herald]

I’m leaning genestealer cults related now

[jaunty dawn]

oh no that hand does look weird

[floral herald]

That’s still a really big handbone either way - I’m also not sure if that’s sculpted flame or a claw

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it's big

I think the pointy bit is flame though

[tired cairn]

Clearly the conclusion is GSC living Saint

[jaunty dawn]

that

does sound like something the cult of the four armed emperor would try

[naive abyss]

Lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/theunforgiven/s/XfZIOqXlqc

[junior robin]

the piping used for a pole and seal made me think house Cawdor for the latest teaser, they do have a crossed symbol but its 2 torches and not bones 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

could be

[junior robin]

other then that, only lone crossbones symbol I can think of in warhammer as a whole was the old round shield sprue

the text does not look chaotic but my hopes are part of the base for 40k daemon primarch Lorgar

[floral herald]

Huh that would be unexpected

I’d have expected Fulgrim

[junior robin]

imo, feels a bit wasteful to make a separate one out of resin for HH if that was the case 🤔

though with the wing from yesterday, Loyalist demon primarch Corax?!

[soft willow]

Banana for scale:

[runic swallow]

Really seems like the vehicles came out a good bit better than the infantry

[junior robin]

well you know what they say, big things made small looks better then small things made smaller

[torn arrow]

it's much easier to make small scale vehicles

[junior robin]

I wonder who out of the primarch who are not 100% dead would return last 🤔

[jaunty dawn]

omegon

[proud wing]

the real question is when will they let skaven into 40k

rats are some of the most survivable creatures that exist

surely they could've lasted a few dozen millenia

[jaunty dawn]

there were

kinda

they got retconned into longboys tho

that age everything around them

[floral herald]

Imperium

[naive abyss]

i mean its similar to horus getting two. also overall gw very much trys to keep all of mainline 40k, at least for new releases, plastic i feel lol

[floral herald]

I could see that but I expect the next one to be chaos

[junior robin]

GW re-branding raven guard into Skaven guard confirmed

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/1xgRNe

https://www.deviantart.com/inkary/art/Witch-huntress-Darius-998962946

[solemn gull]

Ah yea

Knife-gun

[white mural]

I want to put a “this machine kills blank” sticker on my aberrant on caution sign but I don’t know what to put instead of fascist

[naive abyss]

imperials?

[jaunty dawn]

uhh

arbites if you wanna do acab

or like grox for pig maybe idk

[upper canopy]

Loyalists

[dense sedge]

I wish that underwolrds was a more affordable game, it has alot of cool stuff

[jaunty dawn]

masters as in no gods no masters

[proud wing]

actually i think imperials would probably make the most sense

[dense sedge]

and being able to piecemeal collect cool AoS stuff I like like Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nighthaunt, Ghouls, Dark Elves and Lizardmen would be cool. But grabbing those would be like more than an actual army lol. Not to mention how hard it can be to find them at times

[proud wing]

aiui, genestealers pretty much just target imperial worlds, since they're the only ones with enough discontent population and incompetent bureaucracy for a monster cult to take off

[jaunty dawn]

genestealers will go anywhere there's life

[proud wing]

tyranids will go anywhere there's biomass

genestealers are specialized at infiltrating advanced civilization to take it down from within

[jaunty dawn]

I mean

[naive abyss]

i feel like warcry is a good bet in this regard

[jaunty dawn]

they don't really need a civilisation

[naive abyss]

cuz the teams mostly dont go oop

[jaunty dawn]

underworlds models all have rules in warcry :)

[naive abyss]

that too

but i think anthro is bemoaning like the hard to find nature of some underworld teams

and how a decent number of them are oop

[dense sedge]

I really like Ephilim and the Thricefold Discord but both of those are from 125$ starter sets, which is a tough sell for me

[floral herald]

Statistically speaking genestealers usually infiltrate the imperium since they're one of the most numerous targets

[dense sedge]

genestealers are cool, I need to paint mine more

[floral herald]

(There's more orks, but orks are a lot harder to infiltrate)

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[dense sedge]

greensteelaz would be fun to see as something like a kill team though

[jaunty dawn]

tbh I think the lack of like

ummm

[white mural]

AAAB?

[jaunty dawn]

all cops are bastards

oh

righ

AAAB!

or enforcers on necromunda

[white mural]

Genestealers have infiltrated all sorts of things in lore

AEAB

Maybe I’ll do “This machine kills sisters” as they seem to be the ones that would be sent to exterminate Genestealer cults after found by the inquisition

[jaunty dawn]

sometimes yeah

[naive abyss]

itd often be deatwatch imo

[white mural]

And it’d suprise my friend who I’d probably be playing against the most because she plays sisters of battle

[naive abyss]

sisters are more couched in the ordo hereticus

[dense sedge]

deathwatch are also a common chioce, it's basically whoever the inquisitor can get

[white mural]

Deathwatch is more a space hulk thing

[naive abyss]

well its in part depending on the ordo

not really?

thats deathwing lol

[floral herald]

It's usually whoever is available really

[jaunty dawn]

gsc are heretics haha

[dense sedge]

it's just that either ordo xenos or hereticus can be the ones that find the thread that leads to the cult, either because there's signs of a xeno infestation or signs of heresy which he gsc has both of

[floral herald]

But GSC are under the "remit" of both ordos I think

Since they're both internal dissent and aliens

[jaunty dawn]

could also be stormtroopers, arbites

[naive abyss]

fair

[jaunty dawn]

kinda depends what sectors the cult has infiltrated too

[naive abyss]

i just want more ordo xenos rep

my fave ordo tbh

[white mural]

What’s deathwatch?

[naive abyss]

uhh the ordo xenos spec ops marines

[jaunty dawn]

space marine summer camp

[white mural]

Ah

[naive abyss]

who are taken from all chapters

theyre probably overall my fave marine thing and have some of the best infantry models lol

[white mural]

I wonder if I can get a terminator helmet from someone to put in my rock grinder as some type of trophy

[floral herald]

Combined space marine "special forces" chapter which borrows marines from all others to fixate on killing aliens

[white mural]

Oooo

[naive abyss]

ew the primaris upgrades. these are what i mean

the real and og killteam

[floral herald]

eew aversion fandom

[white mural]

I kinda like primaris aesthetic but not lore

[dense sedge]

how does warcry list building work?

[naive abyss]

i mean its more the primaris are really like poorly integrated into deathwatch as a range imo. hell im not sure if they can use the unique flyer still.

cuz they use to not be able to lol

[jaunty dawn]

https://warcrier.net/docs/warbands/

for some reason it doesn't mention it on this page but for matched play the other limits are 3 thralls and 1 monster

[naive abyss]

also the like primaris all the same equipment thing feels so odd for deathwatch ngl

its like the opposite of their intended vibe imo

[jaunty dawn]

I'd disagree with that also cause the three kill teams are pretty good imo

[floral herald]

Oh huh war cry is much more open ended than KT

[naive abyss]

?

[jaunty dawn]

death watch runs mixed primaris squads based on armour type

[white mural]

Is there a good way to get one helmet?

[jaunty dawn]

warcry is a lot more like pre kt21

[naive abyss]

ebay or second hand bits store

[jaunty dawn]

in terms of direction

[lofty warren]

i wish kt21 had more flexibility in terms of team comp

for many factions

[floral herald]

There's a fair number of secondhand bits shops, or you can talk with someone in the community who might have extra stuff

[naive abyss]

I mean ultimately they still end up being fairly overall marine with bolter either way right?

also i love the corvus. its maybe my fave flier model lol

if only cuz i love teh asault ramps

[white mural]

Ooooo that’s pretty

[jaunty dawn]

I guess?? but special issue bolter ammunition is one of the main dw things haha

[naive abyss]

mechanically as a physical faction it is yes

[floral herald]

The fortis kill team also has a fuckton of weapon options

[jaunty dawn]

I'm not talking mechanically

[naive abyss]

i more mean the like fluff and like before they sorta became an army thing

[jaunty dawn]

they made them just stratagems this edition

[naive abyss]

where there whole thing is hyper diverse like kill teams

though this is in part the tug of war of making the small squad action faction into a playable army i suppose lol

[jaunty dawn]

the blackstar can transport anything

12 models with bulky adjustments or just straight up one kill team regardless of composition

[white mural]

I just like little buggy gremlins killing people big strong space marines

[floral herald]

Even takes bikes now which is wild

I think it might be the only transport which can take bikes

[jaunty dawn]

I think it's like the land raider in that it fits alongside primaris a lot better than the rhino chassis imo

I think the stormraven can too?

I think it could always deploy bikes because the firstborn kt can take a bike

[floral herald]

waha has it with centurions and dreads but no Mounted

[jaunty dawn]

looks like it's just the thunderhawk then

(and stormbird)

[floral herald]

ohh yeah I didn't think about the thawk

[jaunty dawn]

sad again that legions imperiallis being heresy means there's no vakyries 😔

space marines are quite air cavalry specialised atm tho

[white mural]

I have a hot take

[bright dove]

That tracks

The air cavalry, not having a hot take

[white mural]

I think 40K vehicles don’t look great

[bright dove]

I like 'em

[lofty warren]

to be entirely fair

this is a lukewarm take

anyways some 40k vehicles look good and others do not

[bright dove]

Imperium's got its Mass Produced Look

Eldar vehicles are just stylish

[lofty warren]

i like ork stuff

[bright dove]

Tau have their own neat style

[lofty warren]

mad max but green

[bright dove]

Orks have great junk

[jaunty dawn]

I think before 8e stormtalons and land raiders could transport bikes actually

idk if 8e is the actual cut off but back in the bulky special rule days at least

[floral herald]

I know they couldn't in 5e but idk about 6 or 7

But also yeah 40k vehicles are super variable in look

[lofty warren]

i hope legions imperialis just does epic again and ends up having orks in it

[bright dove]

I don't remember a lot of Necron vehicles aside from the obvious one

[lofty warren]

cause then i could get a speed freaks army that isnt going to take up my whole damn floor and wallet

[jaunty dawn]

ah no was looking in the wrong place. infantry only. stormraven could carry jump infantry and the blacktalon could carry jump infantry and bikes

so yeah it is pretty unique

[white mural]

Hype

Was able to get the genestealers upgrade frame on eBay for 5$

[jaunty dawn]

nicee

[white mural]

A lot of 40K vehicles look too much like a child’s toy

Whoch I admit 40K is just children’s army soldiers for edgy teens and adults

Orks, Tau, and Eldar have some good stuff

[jaunty dawn]

tau has my favourite line of vehicles by far

I like the deimos rhino a lot though

[solemn gull]

That’s where cheap alternatives come in

[jaunty dawn]

and the new(ish) sisters deimos based vehicles are really nice

wish they'd made their normal rhino use the same sprues :(

[bright dove]

The pipe organ missile launcher rhino is great.

[white mural]

Rhinos actually look cool

[bright dove]

I will brook no complaints about that one. 😛

[jaunty dawn]

vindicator is my fav rhino variant apart from the sob ones

[white mural]

I’m not the biggest fan of rock grinder it doesn’t feel like it’s a repurposed mining vehicle

I like the Atalan Jackals conceptually

[bright dove]

The Goliath Truck isn't actually a repurposed mining vehicle.

It's a repurposed armored car

[jaunty dawn]

oh I also like the old fw leman russes with trench rails

same design the new legion imperiallis ones use

[white mural]

The most common variant of the Goliath Truck across the Imperium is the Goliath Rockgrinder. Though compact, the Goliath Rockgrinder is a mining vehicle built to withstand rockfalls, dam bursts and the fiery backwash of its Clearance Incinerator. Those huddled within have a great deal of protection from all but the highest-calibre weapons. The Goliath Rockgrinder can carry up to six cult warriors.

[bright dove]

Leman Russ tanks are just great period.

[bright dove]

They were originally built from an STC design to provide heavy-duty protection for Imperial officials and corporate bureaucrats moving through subterranean complexes and mining tunnels.

[jaunty dawn]

the rockgrinder was made from the armoured car

[bright dove]

They got the STC, made it for corporate shills, and then went "Say, we already send these things into mines. What if we put on a drill?"

[jaunty dawn]

like

[white mural]

Ah

[jaunty dawn]

before the cult got ahold of it

[white mural]

So it’s repurposed twice over

[bright dove]

Yep

[white mural]

Idk then maybe that’s a bit too cluttered of a concept

[jaunty dawn]

I think partially it's that the rockgrinder was designed to be a two option kit

so it's not very like

the drill bits need to be easy to leave off and still look good

[bright dove]

It's not focused at base, yeah

And it's a very Imperial thing

"We don't have an easy STC available for dedicated drilling vehicles. What about repurposing the APC we do have?"

[floral herald]

A lot of imperial stuff is like that since they're so cargo-culty with tech

[bright dove]

Yuuuup

So it's a case of STC to armored civilian transport car to mining vehicle to Genestealer cults hijacking them into combat service.

[naive abyss]

tbh i like 40k vehicles looking sorta silly

if they used sensible irl vehicle design the vibe would be off imo

[bright dove]

I'm not here to take the setting too seriously, yeah

[white mural]

Same

[white mural]

We need more face chest chaos marines

[thin ibex]

i hope we get a shooty and a mixed army detachmen for hte orks

id like to not thard focus into raw melee

wheen building an ork listt

even if i want somee good meeleeee

[alpine quarry]

I just ignore the lore. Primaris are how spacemarines look like. Thats it