#Warhammer and Such
naive abyss
pastel rampart
I get how to paint that. I know I could probably paint that.
Nonetheless, fuck alla that.
naive abyss
decided to edit the new knights into a unit shot and ngl they are continuing to be a vibe
like they may be my fave termies now ngl
cuz i like th helms and like all the lil gubbins and they are in the now not doofy scale for termies
tweaked the unit edit so one wasnt randomly mirrored and its now more like symmetrically spaced lol
past sphinx
decided to edit the new knights into a unit shot and ngl they are continuing to ...
God yhis is what primaris needed
Look at those stupid little bear ears on yhe serious boy knight face
Love em
naive abyss
def was right aobut them looking good in the HH colors
its a really rough edit but it gets the idea across lol
pulsar cairn
sord
jaunty dawn
nice
unreal cosmos
sinister as hell
naive abyss
i love HH DA colors
like i dont think the 40k scheme is bad but id be lying if i didnt prefer the red black
i do find how the change in their scheme ended up happening funny though
but either way with the new risen lore, that i somehow like accidentally predicted, i can make a small like splinter group of my specific DA marines tm lol
tbh giving them axes could also be cool
the termies that is
give them an executioner vibe
that said i refined the colors a bit, though i still cant get a decent looking white on the sword on the shield alas, but yeah refined the colors i could and did some basic variants lol
pastel rampart
floral herald
ough that wing pattern
elder rivet
Lmfao
naive abyss
did a final pass to alter small colors here and there and despeckled it a bit lol
dense sedge
how did you do that?
naive abyss
gimp and many many layers lol
uneven ember
dense sedge
you know what I would love to see? A court of the archon kill team
south axle
We'd probably see a Wych themed KT considering that the last Drukhari KT was Hand of the Archon
mental birch
jaunty dawn
nice
mental birch
Cawl kitbash
mental birch
mental birch
unreal cosmos
Snazzy!
dense sedge
We'd probably see a Wych themed KT considering that the last Drukhari KT was Han...
considering how some still don't have any, and a few still only have one, the most likely option is them not getting another for a few years while we get nother agents of the imperium kt
I think CSM are the faction with the most though
thin ibex
Is bringing a hekaton lane fortress in a 1k point game too many eggs in one basket?
floral herald
I think CSM are the faction with the most though
Regular space marines has the most kill teams at 4
(Compendium, Intercessor, Phobos, Strike Team Justian)
dense sedge
CSM will tie that once the nightlords come out.
I don't count compendium teams tbh, just bespoke and upgade sprue KTs
floral herald
They’ll have 3, Legionaries, Traitor Astartes, and Night Lords
dense sedge
blooded and fellgor ravagers are also part of CSM
floral herald
To the same degree that Starstriders and Exaction are part of space marines yeah
Yeah chaos cult would come under that standard as well
But I think that has more to do with there being fewer chaos codexes to put guys in
dense sedge
To the same degree that Starstriders and Exaction are part of space marines yeah
no those are specifically agents of the imperium alongside breachers and the inquisitorial agents. I'm also only counting bespoke and upgrade sprue team
solemn gull
Not the biggest 40k fan or even a player but I had fun painting this ultramarine apothecary
Made him from some spare parts
Inspired by John Blanche (aka the only reason I even glanced at 40k)
floral herald
That guy’s going through it
floral herald
no those are specifically agents of the imperium alongside breachers and the inq...
I’m not too fussed about that method for faction counting then I guess, it feels pretty arbitrary
jaunty dawn
specially like
void dancer troupe and the upcoming aspect warriors are part of the same codex
in terms of where the same models sit in 40k rules
but they're pretty solidly different factions really
there isn't a dark eldar post compendium kt there's a kabalite one
floral herald
If the rumors are true Mandrakes are getting a kill team
jaunty dawn
honestly might just be a season of unit refreshes lol
at least in terms of full kit kts
floral herald
If they keep that up the dark Eldar are gonna be like 40% kill teams
jaunty dawn
like I think really the only thing we can read into it is that gw is willing to repeat a faction. anything else is just reading into patterns that aren't necessarily there
floral herald
Which, I wouldn’t mind I think they’re one of the most kill team-y factions but it would be funny if the whole season was “people vs de”
jaunty dawn
it's just like most of warcry season 2 was people vs monogod warbands haha
floral herald
I am kinda surprised that the night lords box was an upgrade sprue for legionaries and not another unit from the book
Maybe because most of the CSM unit boxes are 5 dudes or less?
floral herald
My best guess is that a jump pack specialist is hard to balance for a team of melee freaks like that
jaunty dawn
it's night lords!!!
floral herald
Jetpack guys are in general super rare in KT because it’s so strong
jaunty dawn
make him a gunner
floral herald
Or maybe one of those 2x pistols specialists
pastel rampart
Jetpack guys are in general super rare in KT because it’s so strong
Okay well give him a skateboard then.
floral herald
I agree if someone should get one it’s NLs
floral herald
Skateboards are also really strong I bet
The new models are so deliciously Evil it’s great
pastel rampart
They wrap right around into being tryhard and that's great.
Fitting for chaos's saddest boys.
jaunty dawn
would be cool to see more subfaction kill teams tbh
just to go hard on some aspect
but also on that note a white dwarf black templar crusader team would've been awesome
pastel rampart
More undivided chaos teams imo
jaunty dawn
catachan vs nids never happening would be a travesty
pastel rampart
Oh god yeah that too, shit.
It would be a great reason to release new plastic jungle terrain too.
thin ibex
oh huh, learned that anrakyr and zandrekh/obyron are gone from the new necron codex
jaunty dawn
wild
pastel rampart
solemn gull
catachan vs nids never happening would be a travesty
Cadians vs tyranids would be big aliens vibe
pastel rampart
https://fantasygames.com.pl/ork-busters/ Man, love the look of those flamers. Gonna have to copy that.
jaunty dawn
jungle
sentry rules came out in white dwarf before a refined version came out in phobos vs blooded
🤔
also interested in ba and warcry rules
pulsar cairn
every traitor legion had at least one person that remained loyal right?
wasn't there a wordbearer who helped form the ecclesiarchy?
jaunty dawn
every legion had members who did not follow their primarch's allegiance yes
word bearers had by far the least due to a 50 year campaign of purging
zinc field
wasn't there a wordbearer who helped form the ecclesiarchy?
The anchorite, iirc
jaunty dawn
dark angels might have had the most
in the case of the anchorite though he didn't remain loyal so much as he defected again
solemn gull
wasn't there a wordbearer who helped form the ecclesiarchy?
Yes lorgar
go away Fried Cheese
jaunty dawn
the anchorite is bascially the path by which Lorgar's pre turn emperor bible became the foundational text of the imperial cult
pulsar cairn
i just read a bit about him and is interesting that he just surrendered
zinc field
I feel like a lot of the Horus heresy is too “clean” in terms of battle lines
Like imperial communications are a mess on a good day
Somehow every outpost manages to get the memo that there’s a civil war going on, instead of a bunch of confused three or four way fights as multiple sides swoop in to claim a planet and the local garrison hasn’t heard there’s a conflict at all
jaunty dawn
no those happened all the time lol
especially in the random outposts
and the horus forces were able to make a decisive opening to the war because imperial communications were shit
like there was two years between istvaan and calth??
naive abyss
tbh i still hope the night lords come out in a vs box against some risen DA
cuz thatd be fun and fluffy and make my plans for my DA even easier lol
on aside i relaly like these red grass tufts
would work great for doing weird alien planet vibes
tired cairn
There are other companies that make similar things (Vallejo now and a company with the terrible name of "gamer's grass")
jaunty dawn
it's grass for gamers
naive abyss
I...ok? also gamer grass sounds like the cringiest name for a strain of weed
unreal cosmos
it's the weed that makes you better at gaming from that Ernest Cline book that's worse than Ready Player One
pastel rampart
I...ok? also gamer grass sounds like the cringiest name for a strain of weed
I think they're trying to say "you can find similar grass elsewhere, probably for cheaper and with larger amounts"
(or tint some grass yourself but that is such a biiiiiiiitch to do right)
junior robin
they got flowers and ferns as well
naive abyss
I think they're trying to say "you can find similar grass elsewhere, probably fo...
fair and i figured there would be i just saw it in an aricle and i just was struck by how cool theyd look for like making weird alien grasslands lol
cuz im a sucker for like scifi grasslands
floral herald
I’m thinking of using some of it or a similar color for ice bases
naive abyss
its why i still really like this tau art
floral herald
I think the red would be a good contrast
naive abyss
I’m thinking of using some of it or a similar color for ice bases
i had a similar though ironically
im debating doing something like that for my icebased factions lol
make some funky lore fluff or not idk lol
also my fave lancer rpg art is the one in the grassland
like this unrionically may be my fave scifi art in existence lol
and like ive always liked this sorta thing and im genuinely not sure why lol
like weird grasslands that are like oceans of grass activate my neurons
runic swallow
Ah, so a good chunk of the Midwest in the 1800s
naive abyss
well the weird thing is this feelign is almost exclusive to scifi
and i have no idea why
pulsar cairn
make Harrison Armory fight the Tau
past sphinx
like weird grasslands that are like oceans of grass activate my neurons
That's still a good chunk of the midwest
This is like 5 minutes from my backdoor
pulsar cairn
horses
upper canopy
It's weird that there's a conservation effort for an invasive species
pastel rampart
fair and i figured there would be i just saw it in an aricle and i just was stru...
Or consider: blood grass
MOW FOR THE MOW GOD
HE CARES NOT WHERE THE GRASS CLIPPINGS GROW etc etc
naive abyss
lol
solemn gull
like weird grasslands that are like oceans of grass activate my neurons
A tick wrote this
I see through the deception
junior summit
https://www.tumblr.com/dankxsinatra/730570705848107008
god I love tubas
best instrument
also gives you the lung capacity of a blue whale
upper canopy
runic swallow
Considering horses have been here for 500 years, at this point they’re basically just part of the ecosystem. Also, they used to be here before that, but then they went extinct until they were reintroduced by a bunch of Spanish horses making a break for it
Also those grasslands at some places were described by pioneers as being “taller than a man” or “like a sea of grass”
runic swallow
Better know stellar navigation fucko!
Weird how much navigating the desert and the sea overlap actually
unreal cosmos
yeaaahhhh
pulsar cairn
was about to ping you Genome
naive abyss
man i keep ping ponging between like tactical marines and gothic marines lol
cuz i love the dystopic vibe of like tactical cop marines but also like stupid fucke up space knights lol
aka like DA vs Morningstar energy lol
ultimately ill probably reland on DA again since they are the easiest to make vibe wise for models lol
cuz ultimately morningstar is its own thing and i can scratch that itch by using 3:16 to run a something in that setting
mental birch
onyx elm
I swear I've asked this before, but we can talk about the Wrath & Glory game here, right?
upper canopy
We did it all the time back then
soft willow
Yeah this is mostly so the Warhammer talk doesn’t take over like three other forums.
So if it’s Warhammer related it belongs here.
jaunty dawn
so uh. had some damaged spiterider sprues in my belthanos box. contacted support cause based on experience I was like pretty sure that it wasn't a me problem cause I'd never had so many snaps before
just got order confirmation that they're sending a whole nother blades of belthanos set 🥺
like I was really just hoping for replacement spiteriders or something at best lol
orchid venture
https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/custom-guardswoman
if anyone has a 3d printer, here's one of my guards
jaunty dawn
can't tell if I missed cities of sigmar getting new warcry rules or if they only called attention it low key in a white dwarf preview
says it was updated on the tenth but I guess they just didn't mention it for two weeks lol
naive abyss
pastel rampart
Huh, they changed break test.
pine matrix
Fuck yesssss
naive abyss
Huh, they changed break test.
I like the tug of war of melee Ngl
pastel rampart
I think some other games do similar. Kings of War has you separate units by 1" after melee is finished regardless of result.
naive abyss
Mm mm
But yeah Idk how much old world rules are just old fantasy rules but they seem fun as someone who never really saw old fantasy rules lol
naive abyss
Like combat has actual layers to it
pulsar cairn
like onions
naive abyss
Instead of just roll dice hope you roll high with 40k
naive abyss
Lol
tired cairn
Cleaning the blood off the saw is dramatically more hygienic than anyone else in the 40k universe. Even if it is just with a rag
pulsar cairn
thhose are the medic gene stealer cult?
pastel rampart
But yeah Idk how much old world rules are just old fantasy rules but they seem f...
So, it's mostly been the same up to this point. Break tests are very different now--used to be you'd just take a Ld test if you lost combat and if you passed (after modifiers) you'd stay there and keep fighting. Fail and you'd run.
Modifiers were often by -X of how much you lost the combat by, plus any penalties from spells/magic items, fear/terror, etc. which was offset by how many models you killed (if any) plus respective bonuses.
Combat was broadly similar to how 40k did it for a long time, so WS vs WS, S v T, etc. A particularly odd and somewhat annoying rule was how front ranks worked--only the first rank could fight, unless they had spears in which case two ranks could (and if you were high elves, it was three, because fuck you). This also applied to casualties, so if the front rank died before they could attack then you were kinda shit outta luck.
This changed in 8th, but was law of the land in 6th and 7th.
past sphinx
thhose are the medic gene stealer cult?
Delaque from necromunda
Probably not gsc
But might be as with m9st things in the hive
naive abyss
Like its the first time combat has interested me in a mechanical sense lol
pastel rampart
Models who charged struck first. Great weapons struck last, so if you charged with a great weapon it went by initiative. So, a unit of chaos knights charging a unit could usually wipe out the front rank, cause some damage spill-over, and the charged unit would usually flee as a result. Side or rear charges were especially deadly since it could cause extra Ld penalties.
A really fucked situation was if a unit fled, there was a chance nearby friendly units would also flee, causing a fleeing cascade. I've seen games end on turn 2 because half the army fled off the board because of some unit charging and winning.
Skaven were especially prone to this, not only because of their somewhat low Ld but also because you'd have so many units on the board that they'd be practically touching each other, thus causing a flee cascade. This is funny in the abstract but in practice, kinda sucks!
naive abyss
Mm mm
pastel rampart
6th ed Slaaneshi armies were masters at the Leadership Bomb, where they'd slap so many Ld penalties you'd be stuck hoping to roll snakeeyes on a Ld or be guaranteed to fail.
tired cairn
*A really fucked* situation was if a unit fled, there was a chance nearby friend...
Did nearby units give a buff to ld?
naive abyss
I conceptually found "run off the board destroys the unit" bad
I mean it's representing a unit just completely fleeing combat
And that's when you roll the unit is broken and fleeing result on leadership
So it makes sense imo
I'll admit this activates my brain juice in part due to being a total war nerd though
tired cairn
It's an artifact of board size though
naive abyss
?
tired cairn
You can regroup if you run from the middle of the board, why wouldn't you be able to regroup if you ran an inch past the edge of the board?
It might not even be relatively farther from the front lines
naive abyss
Because it's representing just utterly breaking with no moment to rally. Like this feels more like you having an issue with some of the like arbitration in rules playing on a board sorta necessitates.
thin ibex
the question of "why can't they regroup off board" kind of goes hand in hand with "why would the cannons even be on the board at all?"
tired cairn
I find basing it being "running off the board" as harsh and weird
naive abyss
Like I could see rolling to lose a portion of the unit instead but that also just adds more steps which is debatably a bad thing
tired cairn
Instead of like, failing a bunch of times in a row or whatever
naive abyss
I find basing it being "running off the board" as harsh and weird
Idk it's like total war
Which I like
tired cairn
Also, it means people are more likely to flee at the start of the battle lol
naive abyss
Instead of like, failing a bunch of times in a row or whatever
I mean it's two bad rolls in a row
naive abyss
Also, it means people are more likely to flee at the start of the battle lol
No?
They have to move into combat
thin ibex
i think, from a mechanical perspective, fleeing off the table edge is treating the table edge as a hard line on the play area, which i think makes perfect sense
naive abyss
Which means they're usually at least a bit away from start
tired cairn
You're more likely to be close to the board edge the closer to the start of the game you are
tired cairn
That doesn't change what I said
(my understanding of total war is that the map is much much larger relatively but also people spend more time fleeing)
naive abyss
That depends on the map
Just like it depends on the board
Also again you have to roll bad twice in likely many cases for that to happen in the starting combat
Unless you decide to fight near a board edge for some reason
thin ibex
the main issue with opening up to the idea of units existing off the table edge and being able to come back, it creates a problematic issue of accounting for units existing off the table edge and treating the play area as a portion of a largely invisible map; which i think isn't a very good place to be as far as playin a tabletop war game
naive abyss
It adds too much overhead imo
naive abyss
Like I could see rolling to lose a portion of the unit instead but that also jus...
Again this could be argued but I prefer the simplicity tbh
pastel rampart
Did nearby units give a buff to ld?
For some units, yes. This was mostly things like your army leader and sometimes magic items or banners. Rarely a whole unit.
It was easier and more common to have Ld negatives than positives.
jaunty dawn
fundamentally the point is that the board is what you're fighting over
pastel rampart
Yeah
jaunty dawn
so like if you flee off the board, you've been driven out of the battle
pastel rampart
It's an artificial divide but it's also arguably the most important aspect of the game.
jaunty dawn
and it's not really any more harsh than any other way of killing a unit really
and it's usually a good thing that there's multiple ways of removing a unit
like it brings space for tough but undisciplined and vice versa
uh
if the group is anywhere near the board such that they might run off it, that means in the terms of the wider battle you've given a bunch of ground
while retreating merely to your line is a completely different situation
let alone retreating to no mans land or a breakthrough point
pastel rampart
Fleeing off the board and being out of game/considered destroyed is fine. Mostly.
In 40k it didn't happen enough to be a bother. In WHFB though...
pastel rampart
Yeah.
thin ibex
40k i think also mostly did away with physically fleeing units; which I don't hate, but i do wonder at times if it might be an interesting thing to sprinkle back in with battleshock
since positional control is so strong
pastel rampart
The thing with fleeing units in 40k is that it would affect some armies way more than others.
naive abyss
Tbh I find 40k morale boring when it's "sometimes dudes evaporate"
pastel rampart
Tyranids don't flee, as a general concept. SMs do tactical retreats. Necrons are mostly mindless so the concept of fleeing doesn't really exist.
naive abyss
Like that always felt way worse to watch or etc then like "a unit physically managed to run so far that it's out of play"
pastel rampart
Meanwhile, guards? Yeah they're gonna flee if shit looks bad. Eldar value their lives more than anything else. Orks will sometimes flee, sometimes not.
naive abyss
Which like the new battleshock system did away with evaporation I think?
jaunty dawn
the new battleshock is a lot more like a pinning type system yeah
and objective denial
but then they made it like never proc at all haha
naive abyss
Lol
pastel rampart
In a broader, more meta/narrative sense, 40k not having fleeing makes a kind of sense when you consider how many units are full of drugged-up psychos, hypnoindoctrinates supersoldiers, emotionless robots, and just downright bloody-minded weirdos.
jaunty dawn
it's also a uh
naive abyss
But yeah I like this system for old world but I acknowledge I have a bias with that
pastel rampart
The lowly guardsman is probably on 5 different types of stimulants because he hasn't slept in 20 hours and all he has is a fancy flashlight for offense.
jaunty dawn
which to a greater or lesser extent were basically just two forces slamming into each other it
until one is routed
naive abyss
Like "what is the game vibe going for"
jaunty dawn
yeah
naive abyss
Yeah it's literal infantry blocks lol
jaunty dawn
40k is a bit weird cause I think it's changed a lot in its history
naive abyss
You can even have infantry in columns
jaunty dawn
but it's based on like a very different like idea of combat
naive abyss
Def
jaunty dawn
40k apocalypse and horus heresy are a bit more grounded in like ww2 ish style fighting
so they're a lot more about pinning and such in places
still not really emphasised like a lot of modern wargames but there's an. effort lol
and also bigger boards n incorparating aircraft before 40k did etc so that you don't have the 'why is artillery on the board' problem as much
naive abyss
I like the emphasis on positioning these old world rules have
thin ibex
morale is about battleshock, which is purely a debuff
and not a "kills people and removes model" thing
jaunty dawn
if the artillery blocks are on opposite sides of the room and the conventional 40k battle is happening in the middle haha
jaunty dawn
yeah I'm excited to play a bit of it
thin ibex
i do think 40k in 10th still has the issue of battleshock maybe not being as impactful as it should be, but I think its still miles better than old morale in previous editions
jaunty dawn
dunno if I'll collect much but on tts or something
thin ibex
mostly cause old morale was stupid, because almost every faction had some stupid excuse to completely ignore morale
pastel rampart
I'm wondering if TOW will keep the old "reconfigure a unit" thing where you could change rows and columns whenever.
Which uuuuuh hardly anyone used and was weird and awkward.
pastel rampart
I think most units will be able to do marching orders.
jaunty dawn
so that might just be warcom writing without full access to the rules n such
and getting something confused
past sphinx
Seems like plastic catachans are comin
jaunty dawn
maybe!
thin ibex
yeah jungle warfare REALLY clues us into catachan kill team
i think
which im ALL about
i know at least a few friends who will be very excited
jaunty dawn
sentry rules were in wd before the phobos one used them
pastel rampart
I think in practice, unless the marching order proves to give a sizable benefit, most people are going to stick with the same unit formation and not rearrange it because it's honestly a hassle.
obtuse violet
Bespoke tyranid kill team!???
thin ibex
you know ive never run with sentry rules
i think bespoke tyranids vs bespoke catachans would be an instant classic
jaunty dawn
I think ymgarl genestealers would work really well as a tyranid kill team
pastel rampart
Like it'll still be on a 6x4 board and most deployment is 8" from the table edge (assuming it's like older editions) so you're likely to get into combat on turn 2 anyway.
naive abyss
Seems like plastic catachans are comin
Well new plastic catachans lol
obtuse violet
i think bespoke tyranids vs bespoke catachans would be an instant classic
You're right, they'll never do it
floral herald
If they’re weird genestealers with bioguns (plausible for ymgarl) I think they’d make a pretty solid elite or middleweight team
thin ibex
bespoke stealers, or bespoke vanguard kt with like stealers and von ryans leapers n whatever would be pretty cool
jaunty dawn
the problem with anything other than genestealers is it would probably need multiple base kits
floral herald
My pie in the sky tyranid kt would be spec-ops gaunts
jaunty dawn
is my thinking
pastel rampart
If they’re weird genestealers with bioguns (plausible for ymgarl) I think they’d...
Could do bio-plasma.
floral herald
10-14 members with specialists and funny weapons
jaunty dawn
but hierotek circle did kinda cheat that
in addition to being based on a 5 man kit + a character
hm
hm.
I forgot they did that lol
naive abyss
I still want risen vs those nightlords lol
floral herald
Forgot they did what?
jaunty dawn
made an upgrade sprue kill team that is based on two different kits
jaunty dawn
cause my point was actually gonna be about how the upgrade sprue itself had models
thin ibex
Well, it's not outlandish if it's a bespoke team
Since they can just come all in the same box
floral herald
The norm for KT is 1 team of new sculpts vs 1 upgrade sprue team so whatever’s coming with NLs is probably not something with models atm
jaunty dawn
even a bespoke team has to fit in 40k too tho
floral herald
And if there’s new catachans it’s possible they’re up against an upgrade sprue team (which could be new stealers in fairness)
naive abyss
Aren't they an upgrade sprue?
floral herald
There’s also exceptions like the box coming out soon is just 2 sets of new 40K sculpts
floral herald
Yeah, so whatever else is coming is probably a bespoke
jaunty dawn
the first box in a season has been 2 new kits all 3 times
and then everything else has been new kit vs upgrade sprue
naive abyss
So I'm saying a bespoke risen team
floral herald
That’s possible yeah
All bets are off for bespokes
I don’t think anyone called Novitiates or Fellgore ahead of time
naive abyss
I just want something to reflect the lore they had and now is a prime time for it lol
floral herald
Risen or something like that could be neat because space marines technically only have 1 bespoke kill team and it’s… Strike Force Justinian lmao
(The gachapon kill team with no operative choices)
jaunty dawn
risen are very possible tbh
naive abyss
I can hope lol
floral herald
Yeah it’s definitely possible
thin ibex
Oh huh, phobos kt isn't bespoke is it. That's a bit funny, and the other main one is intercessors
And the regular intercessors are just beasts
floral herald
Yeah it’s just an upgrade sprue
And regular intercessors is just the unit box it doesn’t even have an upgrade sprue
jaunty dawn
intercession is whatever you want to call the white dwarf kill teams
and arguably so is justian since they're weren't like. made for kill team/to be released in kill team
it's complicated by the fact that they do still come with their own rules
floral herald
Yeah it’s a funny category
I think Tsons are in the same boat?
And come to think of it are another multi-box KT
jaunty dawn
warpcoven, hunter clade, void dancer, wyrmblade
all of them use multiple boxes
tbh
the upcoming aspect warrior kill team is realistically speaking the same type of kill team imo
floral herald
Yeah I’m actually pretty excited for them
jaunty dawn
because the new kit for striking scorpions doesn't contain any kill team-isms
floral herald
Aspect Warriors are a great fit for KT
jaunty dawn
which maybe that's why they stopped doing white dwarf kill teams tbh
thin ibex
Honestly yeah, though I almost wonder if they're too elite? But then again space marines aren't too elite, and they're roughly on par
jaunty dawn
because ashes of faith and hierotek kinda went a bit wild with it
phobos earlier on to an extent since it can bring reivers in
like maybe they're now more interested in releasing this type of kill team design in a play-ready form
at least initially
floral herald
Honestly yeah, though I almost wonder if they're too elite? But then again space...
The Eldar KTs tend to be in a cool middle ground between the 6 strong elites and 10ish strong normals
jaunty dawn
(because hierotek can take other crypteks, and inqusition has a bunch of fire team options even beyond those they released with)
thin ibex
It'd be kinda cool to have a mixed discipline of aspect warriors, though I know that's more rare
I wonder if informal mixed parties of aspect warriors deploy in less formal war scenarios
jaunty dawn
that's basically what the new kill team is haha
thin ibex
Oh is it? I thought it was a full team of a single aspect
floral herald
It’s fireteam based iirc
With at least dire avengers, striking scorpions, and howling banshees
thin ibex
Huh, neat
jaunty dawn
rather than having specialist operatives it's focused on mixing up your aspect warriors
so idk how engaging it's gonna be out of the box lol
thin ibex
i feel like, as a normal soldier, engaging with any aspect warrior is scary
like a dire avenger is probably like playing against a top tier FPS player doing all kinds of mind boggling maneuvers and 1000IQ plays
all using the equivalent of an assault rifle
onyx elm
Cyber Monday sale for Wrath & Glory books on DriveThruRPG
thin ibex
ooo
i did already pick up the humble bundle
and ive yet to PLAY WanG
so i shouldnt lol
onyx elm
I played WanG just once, but I already like it.
Also got the same humble bundle I think lol
solemn gull
Me too!
thin ibex
question about hearthkyn warriors
when you split them into squads of 5
only one of the 2 groups benefits from the leader that joined em right?
jaunty dawn
ye
thin ibex
or i guess to shorthand the overall question, I can treat them as effectively 2 individual squads from that point forward?
when getting killed, does the opposing player have to kill both 5 man squads to count as having destroyed a unit?
jaunty dawn
they become two seperate units for all purposes yeah
and it happens before the leader joins anyway
thin ibex
ok cool
theres something appealing to me
about each 5 man having their own role and putting the squad leader in the one that the hero doesn't join
jaunty dawn
yeah
thin ibex
though i suppose its a bit more optimal to have all the best units and both special weapons in the leader unit
thin ibex
my thoughts exactly
my opponent for the undecided date of combat has decided i should face their necrons with LoV in tts
so i was playing around with my 1k army list
which is a fun set piece i think
opponent has only gotten 1 game of 10th in though i also have gotten very few games in
so this will be their second
their first game was them testing out CSM
this is the list i think I'll be running with
This is the list I think I'll be playing against
i wonder if the necron army is outmatched, but presumably this is relatively balanced against each other
thin ibex
just feels like my votann list is so much bigger lol
naive abyss
pulsar cairn
dad
I'm sure the rest of the legion is okay with it
everybody likes the lil guys, right?
naive abyss
Idk if like is the right word lol
More "we understand y'all are useful and important"
thin ibex
they're effectively what, like sanctioned xenos?
floral herald
It's not really clear what they are
Legally speaking they're silly little guys and if you want to contest that you have to fight the First Legion about it
jaunty dawn
they're not sanctioned cause that would require the imperial law apparatus to know they exist
they're just little guys
thin ibex
"hey who was that guy that was holding your sheath?"
"Hmm, who do you mean? The neophyte Jim over there?"
jaunty dawn
I assume any forces that see them are likely to just assume they're servitors that the space marines dress up weird cause space marines are fuckin weird
naive abyss
This reminds me the new knights come with a watcher and that immediately makes that kit better than the old one lol
them with their little stick
tired cairn
them with their little stick
Is the watcher going to be the teleport beacon lol
junior robin
clearly he is the bearer of the emperors vape
pine matrix
I wonder what Lord Kroak will be like in Old World 
thin ibex
just delete the opposing side
pine matrix
Where does Doom Of Itzica fit in the phases, probably shooting?
soft willow
The castigator joins the family:
pulsar cairn
i like to think commissars get mad at people for teaching ogryns how to swear
thin ibex
The castigator joins the family:
tall boy
thin ibex
that scanning skull's light looks sick
pine matrix
That rules!!
naive abyss
pulsar cairn
does fantasy/AoS have different Ork factions?
jaunty dawn
yup
naive abyss
though oldhammer is mostly just different clans
jaunty dawn
AoS has Ironjawz, Kruleboyz and Bonesplitterz
pulsar cairn
what's their deal?
long void
Kruelboyz are the biggest shift from the standard iconic warhammer ork design
they're lankier
jaunty dawn
ironjawz wear lots of metal they beat into shape
while bonesplitterz wear paint and tap into the waagh more mystically
kruleboyz are also like very kunnin' focused and hang out with hobgrotz which are taller braver gretchin
bonesplitterz aesthetic takes from the savage orcs of fantasy, snakebites are basically the 40k equivalent
topaz elk
I dont think so
also orcs in AOS tend to be less, evil then 40k orks
kruleboyz as the name implies do enjoy hurting people
bit ironjawz are more about the fight the cruelty they can inflict by winning
they like to fight, not to lord over the people they beat
dense sedge
bonesplitterz are mostly the old savage orc lines, ironjawz originally had the black orc units but have since been completely given new units, and kruleboyz are 100% original to AoS
topaz elk
yah they actually like, interact with non orcs in ways that aren't just, fighting, being mercenaries or occasionally teaming up to deal with other stuff
jaunty dawn
like in 40k using anything other than teef as currency usually means trading with other species and both are un orky (still happens, but un orky)
so in AoS i can have an Ork as my bff?
make him beat up all of the bullies
long void
I'd imagine the Freeboota orks in 40k are also willing to take on mercenary contracts from non-orks
because they're orky pirates
pulsar cairn
yargh
topaz elk
<:vicksyBork:996566504311099533> so in AoS i can have an Ork as my bff?
Yah honestly
naive abyss
I'd imagine the Freeboota orks in 40k are also willing to take on mercenary cont...
not just them
naive abyss
various ork groups can be hired if you pay them with guns and shit but they also likely are going to turn on you
topaz elk
Yah orks are decently common as mercenaries
They’re just, extremely unreliable
They will kill you very readily
dense sedge
AoS has a lot of cool stuff, part of me wishes I'd gotten into it instead of 40k
not sure which faction I would play though lol
naive abyss
i like all three lol
and thus am doomed to stare at my planned hobby shit with despair lol
dense sedge
all three what?
naive abyss
settings
long void
since space is so big, imperial planets can be practically anything.
naive abyss
i ironically find fantasy the most liberating
dense sedge
what's the third setting? Fantasy?
naive abyss
cuz its so easy to justify your armies all fighting each other
dense sedge
fantasy is pretty cool yeah, lizardmen and delves are both quite coo
naive abyss
what's the third setting? Fantasy?
fantasy/old world
dense sedge
aesthetically:
Old World: Dark Elves and Lizardmen are the fantasy factions I love and I quite like the lore for whFantasy
40k: GSC, Drukhari, Thousand sons and Tyranids, and I also quite like the lore.
AoS: Cites of Sigmar (Freeguilds and Misthaven/Anvilgard) Seraphon, Daughters of Khaine, Nighthaunt, Ghouls, Tzeentch and Slaanesh. Ironically the lore is the one that interests me the least of what I've see, but I've also seen the least lore out of all the three.
naive abyss
on an aside didnt catch this prior in the asmodai article lol
dense sedge
are there any books that you guys would recomend to someone who likes those factions? ie. focused on them?
past sphinx
Cult of the spiral dawn was pretty baller
unreal cosmos
@naive abyss https://cults3d.com/en/design-collections/GreyTideStudio/eternal-pilgrims have you seen this guy's stuff?
naive abyss
i believe i have some of their stuff bookmarked
especially the dreadnought stuff
i think
that or a similar one
yeah off of myminifactory
the dreadnought stuff fucks
unreal cosmos
it's VERY good
https://files.cults3d.com/uploaders/18252922/illustration-file/db3177bd-9e1d-4205-bf45-874740437e16/backpackspack3.jpg love the shrine backpack
https://files.cults3d.com/uploaders/18252922/illustration-file/0bb37dcd-61ac-499c-b29f-f752e249366c/axespack1.jpg HMMM, these could be real good for my "we have Suzerains at home"
naive abyss
quality censers
proud wing
so as someone with no warhammer experience, it looks like tyranids have practically no lore or video games compared to every other faction
are they just like, the dedicated enemy NPC faction
solemn gull
Not really
Just kind of hard to get named characters from a non-sentient hivemind
They have a lot of lore
naive abyss
They have plenty of lore and like most factions in warhammer don't have their own games lol
long void
Tyranids were kinda like 40k's White Walkers; something that was a looming threat over the galaxy.
But that timeline has been delayed and more victories against them have been written.
floral herald
Tyranids also show up a fair amount in games, but generally as a hostile faction
But yes they’re the least personable faction in an intentional way
rocky shale
Yeah they have lore but its like "and then this bug showed up and ate these guys" x100 variations
Because its a hivemind
lofty warren
most non-human factions in warhammer don't really get ancilliary media
that focuses on them
if they do get focus its generally in games like dawn of war, and even then human factions are the face of those games
quickly scrolling through wikipedia, excepting rtses and the like the only games that have been from a nonhuman perspective are fire warrior, shootas blood and teef, and speed freeks
i might have missed a couple but i think the point is made
verbal ermine
🤔 then again, there ARE genestealers, which are about as characterized as a bunch of alien locusts can get excluding the Swarmlord
even then, their whole goal is to sow a planet into disarray for the Hive Fleet to eat
and sometimes infect space hulks
pulsar cairn
how would a admech couple date go?
thin ibex
You know, as much shit as I give sanguinius, I don't know if any other primarch could have held the gate solo like he did
tired cairn
how would a admech couple date go?
"I got rid of such base human needs decades ago"
"As did I"
<they dispassionately start discussing how to improve the efficiency of workflow A-E-7-Zeta-9 and come to the conclusion more of the workforce should be turned into servitors>
🤔 are servitors considered more valuable than most humans? Presumably they are harder to, uh, get?
And is there some vague moral reason they don't just turn everyone on an assembly line into a servitor?
upper canopy
It depends
It would be more expensive to turn an entire assembly line into servitors when you can just have generational slavery instead.
But say, militarily, most Imperial forces would rather have the servitor get blown up than a soldier.
ebon forge
I am reading "Betrayer" and
People were not kidding, the Primarchs do bicker like children sometimes
And Magnus really has an oversized massive ego
Lorgar stepped closer to the sorcerer, his once-warm eyes now colder than fool’s gold. ‘Tell me, brother, whose Legion is trapped in the Great Eye, devolving into maggots while the god of Change laughs into infinity? Tell me whose physical form was broken over Leman Russ’s knee because he decided at the last moment that he wouldn’t accept his punishment like an obedient son after all? You didn’t commit to the fight, nor did you surrender and come to heel. Instead, you wasted your Legion and your life’s work in half-hearted capitulation. You think I act in madness? Look to your own sins, hypocrite. And look to your sons, while there is still something left of them.’
And Lorgar literally describe Magnus character in one feel swoop, destroying him worst than Leman's Knee did
thin ibex
It would be more expensive to turn an entire assembly line into servitors when y...
Not only do you get generational slavery, but you can turn the generations into Servitors to extend their service as time goes on or when they get injured and so on
You get the benefit of life is cheap combo'd with semi automated labor with the same people
ebon forge
Not only do you get generational slavery, but you can turn the generations into...
I think Injuries could be dealt with easily with so many robot spare parts
thin ibex
Just depends on how severe the injury is, that and life to to the Mechanicus is often not valued so highly as to commit to mechanical prosthesis in volume for laborers and tech serfs
Sure they may get some, but considering how people live and die on the assembly line, I suspect it's not a priority
Effectively life is so cheap in the Imperium that if you die on the line, someone is queued up to take your spot, possibly while your corpse is still in its position
ebon forge
But they will use every last bit of you to their max
naive abyss
You know, as much shit as I give sanguinius, I don't know if any other primarch...
The lion maybe
ebon forge
Your body break down? If the brain is intact, or still usable, use your brain as a CPU Core
naive abyss
Sang and him compete more or less for strongest loyalist lol
thin ibex
Ehh I don't buy that, I fully accept that the lion is strong, but I don't think sang and lion are uniquely neck and neck.
Even if lion were, that'd place leman in the same footing
upper canopy
I think all of the Primarchs are just about equally powerful and could easily beat any other one in a fight
ebon forge
I don't buy that
Guilliman is state he is not the best fighter of the primarchs , and each one has their specializations
Leman Russ does have the title of "Primarch killer" after all
thin ibex
I just don't think anyone could have done what sang had done at the gates. It's less about raw strength and just a combination of factors and circumstances
I don't think Rogal or Vulkan could have done it either
upper canopy
Leman has the title of Primarch Killer and has a 1-1 W:L
ebon forge
True, Sag was able to tank a lot , his fight against juiced up Horus was unfair to say the least
thin ibex
It's a bit unfortunate that leman has now canonically defeated horus in combat while he was empowered but could not strike the felling blow
upper canopy
Gullieman states he's not the best fighter but has a 3-1-0 W:L
thin ibex
(Unfortunate because I don't think it was a necessary addition)
ebon forge
Is important to remember the circustances of his wins
Also one of those the Emperor literally had to posses him
upper canopy
That was him fighting Nurgle
bright dove
If Pops has to intervene, it's not your win
upper canopy
I still just think it's really funny that apparently getting turned into a Daemon Primarch makes you weaker.
ebon forge
Your true self gets lost and is replaced by something is not your own, it gets some getting used to it
And losing your plot armor but shhhh
upper canopy
like has any primarch won any fight with another primarch after becoming an immortal god
bright dove
Does that win go to Fulgrim or the daemon?
ebon forge
Depends how you see it
Daemon Fulgrim is the same as Fulgrim?
Some say no
Others yes
I say no
So Daemon Fulgrim got the W
bright dove
I also say no
ebon forge
I have to read more about two-eyes Magnus to see if his ego was that massive compared to one-eye Magnus tho
But yeah
Most Primarchs had a dramatic change when they became Daemons
jaunty dawn
didnt magnus always have one eye
ebon forge
Legends say he traded an eye for knowledge
I think it was during his big Woopsy moment and Big E's webway plan that he trade his eye with Tzeench for more power
pulsar cairn
magnus got his souls ripped in half didn't he?
his soul*
or something like that
all i know is that he almost went back to the loyalists and then tzeench dod some weird stuff to him
pastel rampart
Multiple shards of himself.
He's gotten most of them back, but he's lost the ones that had his more noble aspects.
onyx elm
I like how Aldari are so wrapped up in their hobbies as a way to not think about the Chaos God that has dibs on their souls.
ebon forge
Well you know how retcons go
ebon forge
He's gotten most of them back, but he's lost the ones that had his more noble as...
BIG F
Ego man-child Magnus is we get now
naive abyss
Tbh him being a Cyclops was sorta lame imo
naive abyss
I prefer the weirdo magic primarch having odined his eye to the eldritch bird nerd lol
ebon forge
Tbh him being a Cyclops was sorta lame imo
Fat Cyclops Magnus is not canon anymore
bright dove
Alas
naive abyss
But this is also in part me finding Cyclops really silly in the not fun to me personally
naive abyss
Fat Cyclops Magnus is not canon anymore
Well I mean it's literally an option on his model still
I think
bright dove
But it lives on in my heart with an angry Scottish accent
naive abyss
I am unsure if that's a reference to tts or not lol
bright dove
It is
naive abyss
My response then is he's like the cyclops for a very short time in the series lol
Also orc big naturals have returned
@pastel rampart
tepid stratus
Okay so the question was asked a while ago about AOS orks using teef as currency or not and I just want to give some clarification on that. The answer is... Sometimes. It's mostly a bonesplittaz and ironjaws thing and they only really use teef as a currency amongst themselves. With other races they'll usually trade in aqua ghyranis (the universal currency of AOS) or local currencies that they've collected but have no use for themselves. Kruleboyz have a better economic understanding than their cousins but that's mostly due to their economy being built around arms dealing and slave trading. Kruleboyz will just straight up rob or extort you instead of trading with you if they aren't trying to kidnap and sell you to the chaos dwarves
ebon forge
Also orc big naturals have returned
WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'RETURNED'
WHAT ARE THEIR STAT BLOCKS EVEN?! HOW ARE THEY CALLED
OH GOD PLEASE DON'T POST THE GIF AGAIN I HAVE BARELY RECOVERED FROM LAST TIME
Is for Bloodbowl or AoS?
solemn gull
Idk I just know I would use them for bloodbowl
naive abyss
Is for Bloodbowl or AoS?
Bloodbowl
naive abyss
WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'RETURNED'
WHAT ARE THEIR STAT BLOCKS EVEN?! HOW ARE THEY **CAL...
They have old models
ebon forge
They have old models
I saw those
They haunt my dreams
`‘You built two,’ the sorcerer breathed.
‘Oh, no.’ Lorgar didn’t even open his eyes. He raised a hand to point into the void, where a second warp-slice ripped across the stars. ‘I built three.’`
Lorgar PLZ
ebon forge
Really? I though he was referencing to the cheerleaders Orc ladies
jaunty dawn
today's bloodbowl article is about models that briefly returning to production on a made to order basis
pastel rampart
Also orc big naturals have returned
FINALLY. SOME REAL TITS.
ebon forge
today's bloodbowl article is about models that briefly returning to production o...
oooh thank you, sorry for the confusion
naive abyss
today's bloodbowl article is about models that briefly returning to production o...
Ah. In fairness I was thinking of the really old ones and forgot less old ones existed lol
floral herald
I think all of the Primarchs are just about equally powerful and could easily be...
I’m a little late but I agree, I think there’s a real small “range” of power for the primarchs. There’s an interesting example in sons of the forest where the Lion compares himself to Guilliman as a duelist and basically it comes down to Guilliman having primarch adhd and being unable to ever bring his complete focus to the fight where Lion can
Cause apparently Guilliman’s mind is set up such that he’s always ticking away at strategy and logistics in the back of his mind while fighting
One of the dark imperium books also talk about how Guilliman has a reputation as a cerebral planner of a primarch but they’re all superlative living weapons first, and anything else second
I think if you ran a primarch duels tournament 10x you’d probably have a different winner in 8-9 of them
tepid stratus
Yeah, functionally they're equivalent power just distributed across different disciplines so to speak.
thin ibex
I think also though, that some primarchs had their levels of specialization, and if you ran a primarch duels series, the primarchs who were most proficient at specifically dueling would be advantaged
say fulgrim and jaghatai
this is not to say that the others are bad at combat or fighting or not killing machines, but dueling is a specific mode of combat, and skills exist that are specific to that arena
raw vessel
I would argue Alpharius is on the lower end, in his primarch book he talked about how he only felt that he was next to unbeatable when he was fighting alongside Omegon
junior summit
meanwhile on the TT it's vulkan time
thin ibex
actually i suppose I should also include angron in that list, as supposedly he was one of the most skilled and proficient fighters in the lot pre-deamonification
I remember the Night Haunter got dogwalked by both the Lion and Vulkan when given the opportunity to have a straight up fight
floral herald
I think also though, that some primarchs had their levels of specialization, and...
There’s a lot of them though and even more sleepers
south axle
Corax and Curze kinda get hosed in a straight up duel
tepid stratus
Neither of them are specialized in fighting fair. They'd fold against the primarchs that made fighting from the front their whole thing
south axle
Lion, Russ, Fulgrim, Khan and Angron are the most fight oriented ones, ye?
tepid stratus
Lion, Fulgrim, Angron and Russ are the obvious contenders. Even on tabletop Lion and Fulgrim are basically the only two that can kill another primarch in a reasonable amount of time (as in only needing 3 turns of constant combat instead of all fucking game)
I'd place Khan at the bottom of that top 5 but he's definitely above the other 13 IMO
south axle
Vulkan has unfair advantage in being imortal
tepid stratus
Vulkan vs Dorn on tabletop is hilarious because if they get in combat at all with eachother you can basically ignore whatever section of the table they're in for the rest of the game because they just can't kill eachother in 5 turns
thin ibex
reminder for the A+ moment of Curze telling Vulkan that his teleporter wont work and Vulkan going "It's also a hammer"
south axle
Everything is a hammer for Vulkan
naive abyss
I’m a little late but I agree, I think there’s a real small “range” of power for...
This reminds me that some think lion is vaguely autism coded
Which I can sorta get. He has weird brain logics and fixates on shit
And gives zero shits about things that don't seem important to him lol
floral herald
Huh, I can kinda see it yeah
thin ibex
Leman Russ being all "My sons, I'm leaving soon to go get some milk and cigarettes. I'll totally be back"
spice flicker
Hmmm... to go with the cool and spooky yet hard to transport nighthaunt or wait to get ushoran so I can field a "noble and honorable" army led by a dark souls boss in all but name...
tepid stratus
Hmmm... to go with the cool and spooky yet hard to transport nighthaunt or wait ...
For what it's worth I've got friends that play nighthaunt and a buddy with FEC. The nighthaunt are ridiculously easy to damage, the FEC are closer to ork levels of unbreakable hunks of plastic
spice flicker
I see
I will also admit I like how simplistic it is at times to design lists for both since the basic battleline unit (ghouls and chainrasps) are decent workhorses in both armies.
tepid stratus
We'll see how that changes with the new book and units for FEC
spice flicker
True
bright dove
I'm so close to wanting back into the hobby, and it's Skaven making me want to do it.
pastel rampart
You could make a very cheap Skaven army if you don't mind buying non-GW stuff.
https://www.scalehobbyist.com/manufacturers/Pegasus/Scale_Figures/caesar-ratmen/PGS0000F108/product.php Behold! 38 ratmen for less than $10!
bright dove
Ooooo
pastel rampart
https://figure.scale-model-kits.com/products/Ratmen-CMF108.html Ah, these have photos.
They're kinda crusty and just a hair shorter than GW ones but they'd be perfect for Skaven slaves or clanrats, where sheer numbers outweigh everything else.
mental birch
Hmmmm
My brain is being poisoned
By the thought of turning DOK models into the electropriests
bright dove
Large number of rats does appeal, yes-yes
But another contributing factor is that I think Gnawholes are cool
thin ibex
friend of mine was telling me one of their first games of 40k was orks vs world eaters, and i cannot imagine more of a rough and ready brawl matchup
just all hands from round 1
pastel rampart
Sounds like your average rugby game.
bright dove
I can tell you from my time in older 40k that the Orks vs. World Eaters matchup is insanely fun.
You're both there to do the same thing.
And that's get stuck in and roll lots of dice.
thin ibex
i think the orkz won on virtue of more bodies on objectives, but effectively they both mostly ignored obj and tried to beat hte shit out of each other
so more objectives was proooobably 1 objective
thin ibex
naive abyss
Tbh I just want skaven to get their long overdue range refresh lol
pastel rampart
Way back in 3rd ed, both orks and world eaters had the same rule for choppas and chainaxes: armor saves couldn't be better than 4+ if you were hit by them.
Terminator 2+? Nah fam that's a 4+ now.
naive abyss
Like they're the only aos range with metal still
pastel rampart
Hahahaha
bright dove
Because that was still the case when I stopped
naive abyss
I think
pastel rampart
I stopped around early-mid 7th when army lists just became this weird detachment soup.
Played a lot of 3rd and 4th, and less and less with each edition.
bright dove
I won a best painted award for my world eaters.
thin ibex
niiice
naive abyss
Tbh old world is the first time the large scale armies game rules have interested me
thin ibex
my buddy is literally just getting into WE so his models are actually really nice for a complete beginner
im proud of him
bright dove
Because at that point in time, I had a friend who wanted to paint for practice
So he painted my squads for free
I was also not a guy trying to play the game to win or even be that effective.
I just had six full squads of berserkers in rhinos, Kharn, and a daemon prince.
pastel rampart
As Khorne intended.
bright dove
Never any plan beyond "Get in there"
pastel rampart
Admittedly "get in there" was a super valid tactic in 3rd thanks to sweeping advance being busted.
Blood Angels were kings at it.
bright dove
About my thoughts on it.
I would also get questions about "What about Vehicles or big monsters?"
And the answer was "Axes" 😄
pastel rampart
Chainaxes were the great equalizer.
mental birch
naive abyss
Skaven need a refresh
Agreed lol
tepid stratus
Skaven are being saved for the 4th edition launch
bright dove
I have no idea about the status of how good they are or if they're really viable.
I just think they're neat.
thin ibex
they exist as a faction in aos right? just a veritably ancient range?
tepid stratus
What skaven? They do alright. They just suffer from unnecessary restrictions on their shooting right now because doom wheels and jezzails are classified as artillery so their competing with lightning cannons and plague claws for unit slots
So skaven tend to lean priest or big rat heavy right now
naive abyss
they exist as a faction in aos right? just a veritably ancient range?
Yes
All of their weapon teams are metal
And they have one named character
tepid stratus
Two! Thanquol and Skreech
More if we count the underworlds unit leaders but uh... I don't
naive abyss
Skreech?
tepid stratus
Skreech Verminking. Dude may not amount to much but he's there at least. More than some factions have for named characters
naive abyss
Oh the named character they made up to go with one of the variant builds of the verminlord
tepid stratus
Yeah, head of the shadow council of thirteen. The thanquol for the verminlords basically
naive abyss
I do find it funny thanwuol memed his way into power
tepid stratus
Ever failing upwards
thin ibex
one could argue that he is an exceedingly capable entity consistently faced with an immovable wall, and that its very much to his credit to have gotten this far xD
tepid stratus
Except that wall is very movable. It's short, angry and keeps following him around
naive abyss
I mean his plans also are just near all bad
His one skill is just sneaks always surviving the fallout lol
bright dove
Which is probably the best skill to have as a Skaven.
naive abyss
True enough
bright dove
But yeah. I want to do Skaven because RATS RATS RATS and Gnawholes
I just really like Gnawholes.
runic swallow
These are the 6mm guys, right?
runic swallow
Yeah, uh, I’d recommend people look at 6mm minis in general, they aren’t the most detailed in the world
Like, this isn’t great but it’s also 6mm
pastel rampart
They aren't the most detailed but I've not seen ones like this in...a long time.
Especially from the biggest game in town.
runic swallow
I’m not the most experienced in 6mm (though I’d like to get into it some day, company or division level games are neat), but aren’t most of em basically just “impression of a guy” level detail?
pastel rampart
Mostly, yeah. Which is fine for the most part, you're playing at a scale that's barely above hex and chit so having a general dude-shaped bit is acceptable.
But uuuuuuuh maybe design them where they don't have a Bethesda-style leg warp there. This wasn't the case with Epic in the 90s and I dunno what the hell happened here.
(these ARE plastic so it's a relatively easy fix but, still)
thin ibex
6mm is absolutely tiny arent they?
pastel rampart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyfy5qf7axA Tiny, yes, though these are slightly larger than their Epic counterparts were.
bright dove
Incredibly so
pastel rampart
"Fingers for scale" more or less, in this video.
bright dove
I would be concerned about bits breaking off it it didn't have that solid piece myself.
proud wing
ok so like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbRaC7pjoiU
I get that manufacturing precise detail can be expensive
but how the fucking hell do you make plastic figures so expensive that making a single team for $500 is seen as an unattainable budget
pastel rampart
Greed, mostly.
bright dove
I'm looking at the Skaven Vanguard
And, like
3 Stormfiends, alright.
A Lightning Cannon, pretty nice
But there's not enough rats.
pastel rampart
You never have enough rats, is the thing.
bright dove
There's always more rats
pastel rampart
A friend has something like 20,000pts of Skaven (as per like 8th ed WHFB) and didn't think he had enough.
naive abyss
but how the *fucking hell* do you make plastic figures so expensive that making ...
Super niche hobby doesn't help lol
Also I do feel calling it a single team is a bit of misrepresentation of how many models an army usually is lol
bright dove
What offends me the most though is the Gnawholes
upper canopy
It's mostly due to the fact that GW pays taxes.
bright dove
For something that I will 100% use in every game and is free for points
bright dove
60 bucks for it is a bit of an ask
pastel rampart
Always check ebay.
bright dove
Yuuuup
junior robin
or gnaw your own holes
bright dove
Strongly considering that too.
pastel rampart
Yeah making your own is rather easy. Hunk of foam'll do ya.
Or one of my favorite tricks: get those tiny pies at stores and use the aluminum tray it comes in. Flip it over, bend the center into a crater. Cover with sand and such and bam, instant crater.
Glue'em onto a CD (old AOL discs if you still got'em for bonus points)
bright dove
Yeee
Get some cotton to make green smoke
Those Ratmen that you linked earlier will also help with the Never Enough Rats problem
proud wing
Also brexit bumped costs up
just like: according to Google, a kilogram of 3D printer filament is $50. I imagine one army would be less than a kilogram of plastic. I don't know if that's the most cost effective method when mass producing, and there would be additional costs for distribution and marketing. But I still don't see how the price could inflate that much.
bright dove
I mean, it depends entirely upon your army whether it weighs more or less than a kilogram
runic swallow
They do injection molding iirc
But yeah the price is absurd, it’s the name brand you’re paying for
bright dove
And some of the models do look really nice.
runic swallow
Oh yeah for sure
naive abyss
That and the cost of making plastic model designs is not insignificant
naive abyss
They do injection molding iirc
Yeah
There's no like reliable high fidelity 3d printing in plastic
Especially for mass production
runic swallow
Yeah the costs aren’t nothing, but they sure are going past “reasonable return on investment”
naive abyss
I mean again it's a niche hobby with a somewhat like static buyer base. Ala once you buy an army you have said army.
tired cairn
They sell for so much because people are willing to buy them for so much
naive abyss
It's why they constantly release new models these days lol
bright dove
Also yeah, for the most part you have to buy things once.
tired cairn
They also have had production bottlenecks for a long time
bright dove
Who in their right mind needs a second Baneblade, for example? 😛
naive abyss
Like the prices are very high but it still feels like a better deal than most AAAAA video games these days as a comparative
Also I'll admit I'm biased cuz I don't have to face the challenge of "how do I afford my whole army" cuz I'm a hobbyist who just buys a box here or there
Like the one thing I'll rattle my can over is FW
cuz I loathe it's existence lol
In part cuz resin but more due to the quality control being shit
pastel rampart
Who in their right mind needs a second Baneblade, for example? 😛
Ork players.
bright dove
I said right mind
naive abyss
Like the idea you'd have to pay even higher premiums to get models that are broken or you have to fucking hair dry to straighten is ridiculous
bright dove
Ork players will never qualify as being in their right minds.
pastel rampart
Ah but you see, they're the ones with the rightest minds because they can orkify anything in sight, showing maximum creativity in the hobby space.
jaunty dawn
many things have been sacrificed on the altar of gorkamorka by my parent
including an ebay rescue baneblade
which now has a big ed bossbunka on top, used to have an imperial bastion
jaunty dawn
also a stormraven which they made all bird-y
before deffkoptas had good models they made their first three from crisis suits
put big propellers on their backs n stuff
thin ibex
I won't lie and say I wasn't vibing glorious cavalry charging this afternoon
thin ibex
2k points of " I sure hope you brought enough high volume weaponry"
unreal cosmos
https://d1w82usnq70pt2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/MZbPQC1d4hPe08mh.jpg I feel like the HH Decurion models answer a lot about "how would space marines piloting vehicles even work"
pauldrons off, power pack replaced with the engine itself
jaunty dawn
pauldrons? off
floral herald
Yeah that tracks for working in a confined space its dope
topaz elk
pauldrons? off
Pauldrons? off. Heavy Bolter? Armed. Yah, its rhino time
floral herald
I wonder how long you can fire that gun before it runs out of ammo
topaz elk
12 seconds
dense sedge
Super niche hobby doesn't help lol
honestly just niche at this point
warhammer stuff is stupid expensive though
jaunty dawn
Pauldrons? off. Heavy Bolter? Armed. Yah, its rhino time
thank you for coming up with the joke cause I honestly my mind went blank after that dsfgk
warhammer's depiction of ammo doesn't like actually bother me but it is all I can think about whenever I'm painting an ammo belt or whatever
like the big sweeping ammo belts connecting to tiny little ammo boxes
pesky heroic scale
soft willow
The Castigator's ammo box almost works.
You still probably can't fire that bolter more than like 20 seconds though.
runic swallow
To be fair you can’t fire most machine guns that long before reloading
But it feels like it should just coil over to some huge ammo box somewhere else or down into the tank
dense sedge
irl machine guns use short controlled bursts, just holding down the trigger isn't somehting you actually do outside of fiction
they also produce a tremendous amount of heat
thin ibex
Heck, a 20 second burst is wild
Though even controlled bursts can lead to persistent sustained fire that will melt the barrel or deform it enough to render the gun mostly non functional
And needing a barrel swap
floral herald
This is a rotary gun though, so it cools itself pretty well
thin ibex
Though also, while operators will be trained to fire in controlled bursts for good reasons, I don't find it at all unbelievable that a gunner under duress just holds that shit down, however unwise that might be
zinc field
One of these days I’m going to kitbash a sacristan loading vehicle out of a rhino as a display piece for my knights
floral herald
I also think that’s relatively unlikely for space marines to do
Since they handle stress better and are trained to a really absurd degree
zinc field
Something like this, but with a trailer of bullets hitched to it
I need to finish my current pile of shame first though
proud wing
i think that after a brief foray into the YouTube Warhammer Lore Rabbit Hole™, the best faction is the Aeldari
in a universe where everything is absolutely miserable and hellish all of the time, it's neat that there's a faction of just psychic flying biker elves who actually have half-decent lives
and "ancient civilization that prospered so hard it collapsed due to lack of meaning in life" is an interesting trope
dense sedge
I need to finish my current pile of shame first though<:sadcowboy:57282262645669...
what's in it?
zinc field
what's in it?
Finishing a preceptor (which is actually a repaint of my first knight), a pair of armigers, a castigator, and ~5 tyranid monsters. And a half-built robot arm that isn't 40k related but I still need to finish
naive abyss
in a universe where everything is absolutely miserable and hellish all of the ti...
arguably the leagues of votann have it a bit better. if only since they dont have a chaos god explicity hankering for their souls at all times lol
also on that note i find it ironic you described the eldar as bikers considering the old visual style for the lov as squats lol
topaz elk
i think that after a brief foray into the YouTube Warhammer Lore Rabbit Hole™, t...
Based
desert jay
and "ancient civilization that prospered so hard it collapsed due to lack of mea...
That and partying so hard they accidentally invented an evil god of partying that fucked a lot of shit up
proud wing
man I hate it when that happens
thin ibex
If one were making a crimson fists theme list, do they have anything going on beyond "hates orks, are grimly determined"?
unreal cosmos
in the previous edition they had a bonus that incentivized MSU
thin ibex
I guess being related to the IF means they have an abiding love for bolters
unreal cosmos
yeppers
also they got a second shot at life from the Primaris and some direct assistance from Guilliman
thin ibex
I remember Pedro effectively going "yeah thanks for coming by I've got orks to kill, are we done?" After getting a bit emotional when g man was like "dorn would be proud"
unreal cosmos
Perhaps ironically, the CFs have some historical ties to Guilliman on account of their founder spending time in the Imperium Secundus
proud wing
the Thousand Sons also seem like a very good faction
Egyptian wizards in power armor is a cool aesthetic
and it seems like in terms of lore they're just the Doofenschmirtz of 40K
where they're technically supergeniuses but everything they have ever done just failed spectacularly in their faces
naive abyss
I mean most of them are basically dust automatons lol
floral herald
It’s not just them, Tzeentch aligned people are like that yeah
They’re emblematic of it but among many other things Tzeentch is a god of the “oh no” portion of being a genius
spice flicker
Tzeentch is the embodiment of the catch 22 dilemma
long void
Tzeentch is when you declare "anything but a one!" and the dice fail you.
spice flicker
Really what it is is that Tzeentch schemes like crazy for his ultimate victory but will die once that happens so he makes even more schemes to stop his other schemes from being successful. Since he sees his followers as pawns for his schemes even they suffer in this situation since a definite win for them is a win for Tzeentch which pushes him closer to ceasing to exist.
naive abyss
I mean they wouldn't die
desert jay
Tzeentch is also when you have a zany scheme addiction
naive abyss
Hell in canon at a point they at least in part were winning
And it took the other three ganging up on them to reset the balance
spice flicker
Taken from tvtropes:
if Tzeentch were ever to truly dominate, there would be nothing left for him to change and therefore no point to his existence. Hence why his plans ultimately fail — the true measure of his Chessmaster skills is that none of his countless schemes allow him to be too successful, even by accident.
desert jay
I like the idea that Tzeentch isn’t even trying to win or not win a lot of the time, he just sets up schemes and then sets up other schemes he likes more
naive abyss
Ah yes tvtropes known for being a good source for canon
naive abyss
Taken from tvtropes:
if Tzeentch were ever to truly dominate, there would be not...
Like again they literally have been in this position before lol
desert jay
And he’s just too ADHD to ever follow a scheme through to the end
spice flicker
Yeah I know tvtropes is unreliable as hell