Warhammer and Such

[jovial berry]

Or tomorrow morning

Gnight

[real jacinth]

Night

[jovial berry]

Dreaming of… the funny…
(When I get my army I will make one of the minis Shi’he)

[real jacinth]

Have funny dreams

[thin ibex]

I am interested in the lasting effects on Tau governance as each sphere of expansion is bigger than the last

and also the continued exploration of how the hologram of Aun'Va is like the Tau Gravemind lol. A monument to all of their sins

[past sphinx]

ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE

[thin ibex]

The weirdest bit to me is that supreme ethreals have changed hands in the past, the Empire and the Ethereal caste's reluctance to select a successor is a major hiccup in their own processes

[real jacinth]

I mean I could speculate but if I actually used logic I would also come to the conclusion that the Imperium should have splintered into several smaller factions forever ago

[thin ibex]

It actually does. The imperium i mean, frequently splinter into subfactiosn, that then get attacked and resubsumed

[jaunty dawn]

mm

[thin ibex]

like the entire Sabbat Worlds crusade was reclaiming old imperial territory

as were the Macharian crusades

you know, before the imperium also assassinated macharius

a lot of the imperiums like real grip on things is shakey and fragmented

[ebon forge]

Surprises me that don't happen more often

[floral herald]

The imperium is actually an unreasonable number of factions in a trench coat with really big pauldrons

[thin ibex]

though the indomitus crusade probably had a powerful stabilizing effect

[ebon forge]

Pretty much

And they barely tolerate one another

[thin ibex]

but thats measured against the cicatrix maledictum's new and constant destabilizing effect

and the greater volume of un-regulated psykers

[jaunty dawn]

to a certain extent the imperium is just a bunch of ships that demand tribute and if they don't get it they go back and get the bigger ships

[ebon forge]

Like
Even some Sororitas hates Space Marines because 'mutant"

[thin ibex]

Also an imperial governor can effectively be in rebellion for decades before anyone even notices at times

and/or a world could have been entirely wiped out by necrons without anyone knowing

[ebon forge]

Like that Cain novel?

[ebon forge]

Rock and stone

[thin ibex]

heck, its not brought up a WHOLE lot, but even entire space marine chapters rebel. It just so happens that they often get driven into the waiting hands of the warp because of the sheer attritional might of the imperium

[real jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-and-stone-deep-rock-galactic-gif-25114877

[thin ibex]

the minotaurs exist almost exclusively to hunt traitor marines

[ebon forge]

At least you aren't the Emperor's Scythe
"let's protect this wor- And now is dead
Now what"

[thin ibex]

It IS a bit funny to me the idea that the Imperium is so ethically fucked that Space Marines who rebel on ethical grounds might very well be protesting from a position that is still hella mega ethically fucked

"We're ok with the orphan creation and harvesting factory, but think the lava rivers are a step too far"

[ebon forge]

yeeeeeeeeah

Tho is one of the reasons I have a hard time actually liking the Sororitas apart from the aesthetic
"Billions are dead, but if the curch is safe is ok"

[real jacinth]

I think overall I'm just surprised how the Imperium is able to maintain itself in this "technically one empire" status for so long.

Although then again the Imperium is shown wiping out other, cooler human factions whenever they do find them in some isolated corner of the galaxy.

[ebon forge]

True, but still some things varies
Like, in some Agri-worlds , the farmers might think the Emperor is the sun

[thin ibex]

they're very "HRE" vibed

[jaunty dawn]

also controlling the astropaths and navigators

[naive abyss]

The imperium is very much like a empire in the classic since

[jaunty dawn]

both of them are very globalised and limit the reach of factions without the imperiums support

or galaxy-ised lol

[naive abyss]

It's made of many principalities that are basically independent

[real jacinth]

Oh dang I didn't even consider that
That actually is probably a major reason

[ebon forge]

when they are gonna reveal the secret Skaven nest under the goldren throne tho /j

[ebon forge]

smart

[real jacinth]

They don't need to. The Imperium is already 40k's Skaven equivalent

[ebon forge]

But
They don't smoke the boff boff...

[real jacinth]

true

[ebon forge]

Also oh god that just goes to show how fall the Imperium has fallen

the great horned rat SHALL be the new 5th CHAOS GOD

[naive abyss]

I mean that's already true in aos lol

[ebon forge]

YES

Tho in all honestly, it is true that we are getting a 5th Chaos God in 40k?

[jaunty dawn]

we got the minor god in charge of the soulforge

[naive abyss]

Probably not another major one

[thin ibex]

Effectively, the logic that the Imperium should have fractured by now holds, the Imperium has fractured and refractured a number of times and is held only vaguely coherent into the modern day at the massive cost to life

[real jacinth]

Ah so basically Ancient China but in space

[ebon forge]

And by religion

Aaaand by the inquisition

[naive abyss]

Not really?

Like that involved dynastic changes

[thin ibex]

robbie G almost disbanded them but was convinced otherwise. Thinking about it also, disbanding the inquisition would not have gotten rid of the inquisition, would've just made them hide

[naive abyss]

Emps is basically always there lol

[ebon forge]

Honestly is weird how the IMperium didn't gave a fuck about Krieg when they went independent

[thin ibex]

Well they probably did, but theres always some sort of major shit going down

and krieg solved itself kinda

[naive abyss]

I mean eh? It's one planet which had seemingly no noteworthy things going on

[thin ibex]

it really is just 1 planet

[floral herald]

He also doesn’t have the authority to do that

[naive abyss]

Like I feel the iom at large only even sorta begins to care when it's a whole system

[floral herald]

From their point of view at least

[ebon forge]

Mostly because how the Inquisition would not let that pass
BUt fair, biugger things were happening

[thin ibex]

As the voice of the emperor I think he might?

[real jacinth]

Technically yes
Practically hell no

[ebon forge]

the voice of the Emperor is no match for a sheet of paper

[thin ibex]

I do feel like getting the High Lords of Terra to like really give a shit about a place, its gotta be pretty important; usually important things have to go through multiple layers of authority and hierarchy before hte imperium at large is paying attention

[floral herald]

They were founded by secret order of Malcador who was his superior at the time

Conveniently anyone with the authority to disband them is dead or unspeaking

[ebon forge]

Kind sad how Malcador died to 'teach Magnus a lesson' but then it didn't work

[thin ibex]

Yeah, but like... the invoked authority of the emperor supersedes the invoked authority of malcador the sigillite. I do get what you're saying though

[floral herald]

Uh, I don’t think that’s why he died

[ebon forge]

really? I remember reading somewhere that he allowed Magnus to kill him so he could see he was wrong

[thin ibex]

yeah malks died doing the big chair in big E's place temporarily to buy him the chance to do something

[ebon forge]

Shit no, i ignore -

[thin ibex]

turned to dust

[ebon forge]

Who Magnus killed that was a great friend of him?

[ebon forge]

His soul is probbaly majorly destroyed too

[thin ibex]

iirc malcs did do some psychic flexing on on... Horus? I think, to hold him in place with great effort?

[floral herald]

Their counter would probably be something like how the invoked authority of the 13th son is insufficient to override the direct authority of the emperor or his sigilite

Since they’re one of the bodies personally established by the emperor or the sigilite

[thin ibex]

kinda hard to carry the weight of the response when the Companions back up robbie G

[floral herald]

(Along with the Officio Assassinorum and the grey knights and such)

[ebon forge]

Would Gorilla man be able to send an Imperial Assassin to F the lords of Terra?

[thin ibex]

Custodes effectively being under no other organization authority in the imperium

[jaunty dawn]

no but the leader of the assassins did in support of him kinda

[floral herald]

It’s happened before

[ebon forge]

HAH

[floral herald]

The Beheading

[ebon forge]

how that went

[naive fog]

Anyone here a fan of 'If The Emperor Had a Text-To-Speech Device'?

[ebon forge]

ME

[jaunty dawn]

assassin lord pretended to be part of the conspiracy and then turned on them

[real jacinth]

I mean he might
But he probably wouldn't for the same reason he isn't immediately removing the church as an institution

[lofty warren]

I suspect quite a few ppl

[ebon forge]

Yeah, honestly i feel bad for him

[floral herald]

Civil war which ended when the Imperial Fists and… sable hawks(?) assaulted the assassin’s hq

[ebon forge]

I should have seen that coming

[thin ibex]

the ol 100 eversors

i am curious

did the marines just need to kill 1 to do like a massive chain reaction

which is why only 1 came out

[naive fog]

Me too!

[naive fog]

Fair, I was curious.

[ebon forge]

I went to see who they are and-
Their symbol looks like a Cooking rolling pin behind a skull

[thin ibex]

it was like a combined 1k space marines or something vs 100 eversors, and the marines ultimately won with only 1 of em left

[floral herald]

Yeah

[lofty warren]

This is to say, its good and everyone is sad its done for the forseeable future

[thin ibex]

i have a sneaking suspicion that it wasnt actually a fight, and 1 eversor died causing a comically large series of explosions that massacred many space marines too

but it was too embarrassing

[past sphinx]

Eversor is a thing devoted to singular purpose and identity. The marine however is a lie, a tool of war deceived into art and diplomacy and honor

[thin ibex]

so that last one made it up

[past sphinx]

Assassin wins

[thin ibex]

since eversors are walking nukes, effectively

[past sphinx]

Am I biased due to me collecting all the orginal assassins over years? Yes

[ebon forge]

and the assassins have both male and female, so we have sex ppeal for everyoneGetsobliterated

[thin ibex]

oh right i forgot from earlier

[ebon forge]

How do they play?

[thin ibex]

Arkhan Land, Amar Astarte, and Sire Eversor

[past sphinx]

Very fun for beer and chips games

[thin ibex]

I don't know if Macharius and Malcador count for the silly naming thing since they only REALLY have tanks named after them

[past sphinx]

Little giggles every round

[thin ibex]

did the poison temple ever have rules?

[ebon forge]

Sounds fun, hope they come to KT soon

[jaunty dawn]

I think all the assassin temples are named after their originators

[thin ibex]

the main problem with assassins in KT, is that effectively 1 assassin would be appropriate to face off against anything at KT scale

[floral herald]

No

[ebon forge]

True, it would eneed to be a elite KT, like the custodes

[thin ibex]

like Darkstrider lost an entire pathfinder team and its accompanying drones, and nearly died himself chasing down and killing a vindicare assassin

[ebon forge]

just
4 guys
or 2 guys and 4~6 extras

[floral herald]

There’s a DCA in the rogue trader kt

That’s the closest you get

Actually there’s some clowns which are probably closer rules wise

[ebon forge]

Their rules are a bit scary ngl

[thin ibex]

(incidentally, the vindicare who would have killed Farsight i should add)

[naive fog]

Honestly the focus on melee combat for many units always felt pretty silly in WH40k as a whole. With advanced technology, tanks, guns, and psychic powers.

[thin ibex]

its actually a bit funny to me, i consistently forget that Darkstrider is El'Myamoto

[ebon forge]

I mean yeah, 40k is very silly

Not even talking about the Orks on this one

[floral herald]

No no the chainsaw sword is the apex of weapons

[unreal cosmos]

I think someone here worked on it

[thin ibex]

no mizu, its super serious, only serious people do 40k lore. All of it makes sense and isn't contradictory, and all of it is very grounded in possibility

[naive fog]

With the Orks' "Clap your hands if you believe' technology. Lol

[thin ibex]

(i am joking)

[ebon forge]

No you don't understand
The Captain MUST NOT wear a Helmet
For Morale and to show Courage

[thin ibex]

tbh Orkish power of belief IS a little overstated in the fandom

its there and its real

[ebon forge]

Agreed

[thin ibex]

but tis not to the degree that the community sometimes likes to go in on

its most often more of like a background influence

[naive fog]

Yes, but remember that unless an Ork uses such, their technology, tanks, bikes, and weapons are useless in the hands of anyone else.

[ebon forge]

And I love their aesthetic so much

[thin ibex]

historically based off of british football hooligans if im remembering my deep lore correctly

[naive fog]

Makes sense

[thin ibex]

lot of the OG inspo for 40k was very tongue in cheek and also very like... of the time if that makes sense

[ebon forge]

Yeah
Yeah it does

[naive abyss]

It's literally og ham fantasy in space lol

[naive fog]

Which color was it that makes things go faster for Orks?

[naive abyss]

Red

[naive fog]

Ah, yes. Thank you. Lol

[naive abyss]

On another note

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerFantasy/s/gLIdFMsg2v

Take with salt but

[thin ibex]

used to see a lot more like vintage flame decals, checker patterns, and biker iconography in 40k too

is a bit funny that a lot of the logic behind STC tech is a very real-to-production idea of like its easier to reuse a model when you have a limited capacity to produce things than make unique things for everything

[ebon forge]

true, yeah

[thin ibex]

i.e. everyone gets rhinos

all the tanks are made off of rhinos

[ebon forge]

Like
A standards space marine with a helmet can be painted to be any of the many chapters

[thin ibex]

if they couldve gotten away with it, the bikers wouldve somehow been on rhinos

[naive fog]

Also, before I forget, my favorite factions:

T'au Empire
Necrons
Tzeentch and Thousand Sons
Adepta Sororitas
Space Wolves
Adeptus Mechanicus

[thin ibex]

My 2 "mains" are Space Wolves and Tau

extreme shooting and extreme melee

though i do favor space wolves as lean tundra hunter types rather than their more mainstream heroes and hammers vibe

[ebon forge]

Mine in order:

Orks
Ad Mech
Salamanders
Custodes
World Eaters

[thin ibex]

Which is why the Wolfspear chapter really appeals to me

[naive abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/squats-dance-warhammer-squat-votann-gif-26480291

[thin ibex]

Votann is actually next on my list to collect

[naive fog]

Has anyone see or read the comic Wolf and Sister?

[thin ibex]

once i have my tau army done

[ebon forge]

I WANT to like to Votann but I need more LORE

[thin ibex]

or not done, but once i have a basic tau army ready

[naive abyss]

I like them and want more lore

[thin ibex]

I want more lore and more units

[ebon forge]

I like the Tau aesthetics alone
And farside

[naive fog]

https://imgur.com/gallery/S4KxQOa

[thin ibex]

i wanna know more about what sort adaptations and challenges the votann experience in this new epoch of expanding outwards for them

[naive fog]

Okay, it previews the last page for some reason.

[jaunty dawn]

I want an ironkin character

[ebon forge]

same

[thin ibex]

that would be sick

i also want a pioneer character lol

[ebon forge]

I miss Stroika-1 so much

[naive abyss]

Here for my kin are kin deluxe gay space socialists who are horrible little hyper materialist space dorfs

[naive abyss]

Like a named one? Cuz you otherwise can make one lol

[jaunty dawn]

yes

[thin ibex]

an ironkin HQ generic would be cool

[ebon forge]

...do we have canon gay in 40k?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[thin ibex]

like model wise, just let them be an alt head for a kahl and champion

[naive abyss]

They shouldn't have a distinct generic imo

But again you can easily slap on a irk head lol

[thin ibex]

i do wonder if the votann would benefit from a lieutenant type hq; in normal armor like the kahl

[naive abyss]

Many actually

[naive fog]

Honestly the Wolf and Sister comic very much inspires me to eventually create a 'heretical' Adepta Sororitas subfaction allied with Space Wolves army. Those who were abandoned by the Ecclesiarchy, left behind. Sisters who have taken on the traditions and beliefs of the Space Wolves and Fenrisians.

[thin ibex]

Space wolves be like "You can exist ecclessiarchy, but don't fucking come here"

[ebon forge]

I want Cat-A-Kin, yes

[thin ibex]

i almost want a thunderkyn hq, but i think thats a like a super luxury idea for now

i want an MBT first

and they need a token superheavy of some kind

and my own wish is that they get a flier despite the generalist falling out of grace of fliers currently because they lack tactical application

just cause i think they should have a flier

curious if we'll get a full dedicated jump pack squad for em

[jaunty dawn]

would be cool if votann got a tank commander

[thin ibex]

yoooo what if named hekaton xD

[jaunty dawn]

cause as far as I recall that's only a thing in imperial guard other than a couple named character upgrades

[naive abyss]

https://reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/9kmVek0z7D

[thin ibex]

the main thing i like alot about the land fortress is the vibe of being a mobile HQ for expeditions

rather than just like an assault vehicle

got a kahl in there with his advisors doing big plannings

[ebon forge]

thank you kind sir

[naive abyss]

It's not the most up to date chart

But I couldn't find the newer one

[thin ibex]

same reason i like the land raider lol, the vibe of like being the main road trip van so to speak

and the repulsor

"we put all our snacks in there"

[ebon forge]

huh

[ebon forge]

The land raider?
Discovered by Tech-Priest John Raider?

[naive fog]

Honest question, do Orks even have a gender or biological sex?

[jaunty dawn]

is that the book where deathwatch misgenders orks

[ebon forge]

No, they are fungi

Tho is bullshit we don't have Female Ogryn

[naive fog]

Yeah, that is what I thought. So they would all arguably be non-binary, right?

[quaint compass]

Not modelled, but there are a few in stories

[jaunty dawn]

orks are boyzgender

mostly

[naive fog]

The main reason I bring this up, is I don't see it being as big to make a non-binary ork over a non-binary human.

[past sphinx]

Orks all produce spores

[ebon forge]

Yeah, they are non-binary but go by male pronouns

[naive fog]

Fair

[past sphinx]

The ways they express gender is in ways and means beyond what humans can understand

[ebon forge]

There was a case where a Ork named his pet Squig Princess but
yeah

[past sphinx]

But they all tha boyz

[thin ibex]

Ork gender is "Foitin"

[naive fog]

It would be like having a non-binary necron. From a writing perspective, it doesn't feel as inclusive.

[thin ibex]

Ork gender is either "Brutal" or "Kunnin"

[jaunty dawn]

necrons are mostly binary gender if they're sentient

[thin ibex]

We don't have any fem coded necron do we?

[jaunty dawn]

yeah we do

[ebon forge]

yeah
one

[past sphinx]

Very funny bit of I think the book imperitor where the writer takes a paragraph to talk about how this one admech character has rejected their human form so is nonbinary

But gives them neo pronouns

[floral herald]

There’s a whole thing about this

[naive fog]

Yeah, which is frustrating.

[past sphinx]

Strange to see how far things have come in small ways

[ebon forge]

that reminds me of a very funny interaction

[past sphinx]

FSM discourse, endlessly funny absolutely unproductive

[naive fog]

I love this!

[thin ibex]

I love the idea of orkish conception of "Sexangender" the funny human idea

[naive fog]

Yeah, agreed. Nice why to have fun with it.

[jaunty dawn]

nice!!

[ebon forge]

Pretty much
Because GW will never do that

[brittle salmon]

There's also the female Cryptek in Infinite and the Divine

[thin ibex]

Ork pointing at an unfamiliar tank "Iz dat a 'Umie 'Sexangender'?"

[past sphinx]

We've missed a beat here

The klans and then under that, kultures

Orks are born into klans BUT they manifest that klan through the lense of a chosen kulture

[thin ibex]

If a bad moon gets the common "teeth falling out" stress nightmare, is it a dream about gaining great wealth for them"

Is a speed freek with red Rollerblades a target for nob envy or looked down upon

I got nothing for snakebitzes rn

[ebon forge]

I still love how the stealth ork units use shotguns

[jaunty dawn]

irl stealth units use shotguns haha

[ebon forge]

WHAT

Please explain

[jaunty dawn]

if it's what's needed for the operation

[ebon forge]

Stealth Caliban when

[past sphinx]

IF YA GONNA SNEK UP CLOSE TO DA HUMIE BRINF WHAT YA NEED FOR CLOSE IN WORK

[jaunty dawn]

stealth a lot of the time is more abt getting in undetected than necessarily being super quiet if you have a confrontation

[past sphinx]

The best key ever designed was a 12 Guage

Opens any lock

[ebon forge]

Makes sense

[thin ibex]

Most like stealth operations aren't like "never make any noise and never get noticed" it's usually "don't get noticed till you choose when to go off"

[jaunty dawn]

you do have stuff like suppressed weapons ofc but they have very big limitations

cause they can't break the sound barrier if you want them to be actually quiet

[thin ibex]

Suppressed weapons not nearly as quiet as pop media might imply too

[past sphinx]

On average roughly the sound level of a jackhammer for 5.56

[thin ibex]

(Also you CAN suppress a shotgun)

But it looks rediculous

[ebon forge]

Its a big TUBE

Is like you grabbed a censor bar and slapped on the barrel

[past sphinx]

I've got a single shot 12guage sawn off and god I want to suppress it

[jaunty dawn]

shout out to tau breacher teams for having the only good shotgun in the game

[thin ibex]

incidentally, we know it works on proximity in lore, but like... is it actually a shotgun/scattergun?

[floral herald]

Hey! The Deathwatch also get a good one

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah true

[fiery ingot]

Hey, I’m thinking of getting into WH40k 10e but don’t know of any resources for like, learning core play, learning the mechanical ins and outs of factions so I can pick one, etc

Does anybody have any recommendations for a place to get acquainted with the game

[thin ibex]

hmm, one of the first things to do is go get yourself the core ruleset for free off the warhammer community downloads for 40k

[floral herald]

Yeah the core rules and the basic rosters you can see on the warhammer community site

Beyond that IMO you should collect what you think looks cool

Since you'll be spending a lot of time working on it

[fiery ingot]

I’ve been wanting to play Admech for years now but apparently people aren’t happy with them in 10e?

Saw some discourse about them being cookie cutter

[thin ibex]

there are a number of youtube videos about learning the mechanical ropes I shouldve said as well, but i dont have a specific preference on who teaches it best

[naive fog]

While there was an issue and concern with balance, I honestly wish that there would have been a way to keep the variant unit and army structure rules for different Space Marines and Chaos Space Marine chapters. Especially for Chaos Space Marine chapters.

[thin ibex]

Iirc, admech are not super strong in 10e currently?

[floral herald]

Admech are fine now but they are EXPENSIVE

They're one of the most dollar-expensive armies to collect a full force of

[thin ibex]

Honestly? Balance has been rather bouncy in these early days of 10e, however it does seem like they're slowly zeroing in on their targets. Slower than many would like, but being able to track it so clearly is kind of novel for 40k

[floral herald]

Because of oodles of low points models which high dollar costs

I wouldn't sweat the balance

[fiery ingot]

Oof, ok I’ll be avoiding admech if its expensive

[floral herald]

The meta will shift several times while you collect an army at a hobbyist pace

[naive fog]

Also, if I remember correctly, with 10e rules range combat took a pretty large hit. Meaning it's actually really frustrating to play T'au Empire right now.

[floral herald]

If they're cool and you like the models get some

[thin ibex]

Eh? I wouldn't say that as a Tau player

Tau had different issues

[floral herald]

Just note that its one of the most expensive armies to put together a full 2000 point forces

[naive fog]

Am I thinking of 9e rules?

Maybe I'm behind an edition.

[floral herald]

(Along with Imperial Guard and orks and tyranids)

[fiery ingot]

Custodes has gotta be reasonable to get an army together for right

A big part of the appeal for me is having less units that are individually v strong

[thin ibex]

comparative from 8/9 to 10, a lot of things got tougher in general, so many armies were struggling with toughness breakpoints with their arsenal

AP dropped and toughness got brought up pretty much universally

personally i think its an improvement

as i felt 8 and 9 were too lethal

Tau are currently in the upper tier of win-rates post point drop balances for them

[naive fog]

Riptides aside, which I very much know there were issues for because they were were too cheap originally, I thought I remember there being an issue with viability with what was seen as the general tactics for how a T'au army worked? Maybe that's not the current edition though, and I'm thinking of a different one.

[naive fog]

That's good to know, cuz I want to get back into playing.

[thin ibex]

Really depends on the player's perspective i think. There are limitations to being a an index army with a single detachment.

and some mainstays arent that anymore

[floral herald]

Yeah stodes are pretty cheap to collect

[thin ibex]

like you mentioned riptides, they are not a do-everything unit

[fiery ingot]

Hell yeah

[floral herald]

Broadly speaking the more expensive and elite an army is in points the cheaper it is to purchase an army of

[unreal cosmos]

I may have missed it because the forum is moving really fast rn but I believe the Brutal Kunnin NB character is a techpriest

[desert jay]

Heh, those three aren't in the top 5 currently

[thin ibex]

I am somewhat personally troubled by Crisis suits with cyclic ion blasters being an effectively "required bring"

[floral herald]

Really? I thought IG were like top 3

[fiery ingot]

I could go for some Custodes and some Sisters of Battle

[thin ibex]

one thing id council in general is to not pick an army because its "good", because it wont always be good

pick an army with models that you think are sick af

because you'll still like looking at them when they get balanced

[desert jay]

As of a month ago the top 5 are AdMech, Sisters, Tau, Votann, and Drukhari

[naive fog]

Honestly, I wish GW would better embrace the fact that the T'au Empire bringing other xenos into the empire, and even humans. There was the Kroot originally, and now Vispids, but they're like a single unit each. Right? And they have yet to have rules for human units.

[floral herald]

Huh I would not have expected LoV to be a top 5 expense army

[thin ibex]

Metawatch from the 17th

[jaunty dawn]

imperial guard got a lot cheaper when brigades stopped being a thing I think

[floral herald]

I guess they did get massive points decreases though

[floral herald]

This is about cost to buy 2000 points of in dollars

[desert jay]

Sisters and Tau are pricey and have historically been too, Votann are newcomers and newer shit costs more and the point slashes didn't help in the "reach 2000" dept, Drukhari are pricey as-sold but the way boxes are set up lets you cheat extra models out

[naive fog]

I'm glad to see most of my favorites are higher ranking.

[floral herald]

Maybe IG gets knocked down because people aren't running gunline guard much?

[thin ibex]

Vespid is one unit, Kroot have iirc 4? Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Shaper, Krootox Riders, Kroot Hounds, Kroot Farstalkers. I don't think Daya Grekh is still a thing rn

[floral herald]

Since cadians and such are one of those "one dollar a point" boxes

[thin ibex]

IG are relatively cheap if you play into armor iirc

[naive fog]

Necrons are pretty low on the ranking.

[floral herald]

They rankings don't matter a ton if you don't play tourney lists

[thin ibex]

they've fluctuated a decent amount with balance passes, but one thing is that they did not perform as well as people expected with their cool reainmation stacking rools

and yeah

[desert jay]

GSC are also up there but just outside top 5

[floral herald]

The meta for friendlies and tourney skew lists is very different

[jaunty dawn]

they had rules for human units before 8th ed. but it's honestly not a very exciting direction to go in. plus chapterhouse happened

[naive fog]

I'm amazed that Adeptus Astartes are so low. Given how they're supposed to be the poster boys for the WH40K setting.

[jaunty dawn]

we're getting more kroot of some kind in the future

[thin ibex]

thats an important thing to remember is that tourney oriented lists are somewhat a self contained environment. The tourney win-rates are a solid litmus test but you gotta temper it with knowing that they don't give you the whole picture

[desert jay]

You can also save a bunch if going cadians b/c the value boxes tend to have cadians

[floral herald]

codex space marines rarely dominate the meta

[thin ibex]

apparently the new battle force box will be pretty good?

comes with a rogal dorn from what i saw

Yeah SM most often sit middle of the pack, which kind of makes sense

not counting a few situations where ironhands were god mode

[floral herald]

They actually were fairly strong in early 10th because of spamming devastator doctrine huge missile primaris

(I can't remember the name lol)

[thin ibex]

its a bit funny how often iron hands have topped sm meta with almost no lore or unique models

[desert jay]

2 rogal dorns, 2x10 cadian shock troops, 1x5 cadian command, going by the box pic

[thin ibex]

yeah thats actually a solid box

[floral herald]

But they weren't strong strong because in those days knights and especially CWE knights were king

[thin ibex]

2 rogal dorns is a bit spicy for lower point games lol

but im a fan. Two rolling gun boxes

that are inordinately hard to kill

especially with fewer units on the table

[jaunty dawn]

battleforces got leaked?

[thin ibex]

the guard one i think

did

dont know about the others

[desert jay]

There was a wide text leak a bit ago and the IG had a picture leak this week that matches up, so there's assumptions that the other text leaks are accurate

[jaunty dawn]

ah

[thin ibex]

honestly the rogal has grown on me a lot

also nice for army construction when you want to just have like a solid big thing

leman russ are more points efficient

but the rogal is solid

[pulsar cairn]

scarabs funny

[thin ibex]

is this the free one on steam?

is it any good?

looks like it is a bit of a warhammer clone of hearthstone

which i don't super hate i suppose

[pulsar cairn]

eeeehhh

nothing special about it i think

it's fun

[thin ibex]

maybe a couple afternoons of play and then drop it kinda thing?

or just casually play it every so often?

[naive fog]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/344740/CRYPTARK/

Steam

CRYPTARK

Cryptark is a 2D roguelike shooter that challenges players with boarding and neutralizing procedurally generated alien starships to earn income for their Privateering enterprise. Purchase improved equipment and weapons to tackle more dangerous targets, but be cautious as failure will result in a loss of investment and profit. The decaying alien ...

Price

$14.99

Recommendations

841

Metacritic

80

▶ Play video

This?

[thin ibex]

nah I think its called Warpforge

[naive fog]

Ah, okay.

[pulsar cairn]

i'm still figuring that out

there doesn't seem to be a lot of stuff for you at the start besides the starting deck

so a lot of grind from the start

[ebon forge]

I played some, is ufn

I suck major ass at it

[pulsar cairn]

i like scarabs

they are everywhere

[final tide]

Got myself a dread

Gonna do a proper Deathwing Dread

[thin ibex]

eyyyy

I want a dread for my space wolves

but i wish there was a redemptor with an axe

cause i dont actually have more interest in getting a casteferrum venerable

to get me my axe and shield dread

[ebon forge]

I should paint my custodes

[pulsar cairn]

i'll paint them for u

if you give me ice cream

[ebon forge]

aaaw, of course!

[pulsar cairn]

also

renegades are weird cause from what i understand most fall to chaos if not all of em

[upper canopy]

Not all of them

It's more "If you rebel openly against the Imperium and have to fight against it there's really only one other organized force willing to ally with you at that point"

[jaunty dawn]

partially a case of if you want a supply chain you either make your own or you join up with someone bigger

yeah what voy said

[pulsar cairn]

yeah but I'm also thinking of this one Alpha legion warband called "The redacted" they were still kind of loyal to the emperor just not the Imperium(at least their leader was religious in some way(

are there anymore of em like that?

[thin ibex]

theres strong implication that elements of the Alpha Legion actively remain loyal iirc

but also Alpha legion is so steeped in its own secrecy sauce it can be hard to tell what their overall goals might be

[pulsar cairn]

i feel like we have some who are indeed traitors and others that are loyalist

[naive fog]

My view personally on the Alpha Legion is that they think they are still loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium, but in actuality they have been deceived utterly by the Lord of Change himself, Tzeentch. As what would be more pleasing then seeing a Chaos Space Marine chapter who still thinks they are a Loyalists. It even going to the twin primarchs themselves. So completely lost in their own delusions of having somehow outsmarted everyone.

[pulsar cairn]

could be

i find it interesting that they are one of the few chaos legion who aren't into chaos juice

or at least not as much as the others

the night lords and iron warriors as well

[naive fog]

Same as that one Grey Knight who thinks he can just hope into the warp and kill a bunch of demons, but it being a deception of a Changer of Ways.

Think one of the novels confirms this?

[pulsar cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-kaldor-draigo-warrior-40k-gif-16181920

you mean him?

[naive fog]

I believe so, yes.

[thin ibex]

I don't think ive seen anything that removes the import of Draigo's warp shenanigans thus far

do you know which novel its in?

[naive fog]

Again, lets not forget, Tzeentch is the "just as planned" god. Trickery and deceit, convoluted plans, are his shtick. Lol

[naive fog]

Let me see if I can find it.

[thin ibex]

As far as I know in the narrative present Draigo is still exactly as rediculous as when we last left him (which is very silly indeed)

mostly because they havent really touched draigo narratively in forever

[naive fog]

I believe this is it. Though it is an eshort audio book.
https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/mortarians-heart-eshort.html

[naive abyss]

I mean yes but due to their nature they're also self sabotaging lol

Like Ngl I don't agree with the conceit that the gods are flawless within their domains or no one is capable of shoving their shit in lol

[floral herald]

tbf Tzeentch is all about shoving their own shit in

The god of change and plots and schemes not the god of winning

[naive abyss]

Though that's me speaking in part with og fantasy on the mind which writes that sorta tug of war way better imo

Cuz it didn't murder every other god in setting until the new setting lol

[thin ibex]

ah, I've not read it!

it does not appear that the idea of his exploits being an illusion are reflected in his lexicanum article at the very least

[naive fog]

Still. Lets remember that not even the Emperor could in the end outsmart the Chaos Gods. Around half of the primarch got corrupted and fell. How could any regular space marine, let alone any mortal, truly think they could outsmart Chaos or otherwise be more then a short term set back?

[floral herald]

I like the theory that the Emperor promised the gods 10,000 years of carnage in exchange for power

Way back when that deal was struck

[naive abyss]

I mean my honest response is the emperor is an idiot

[naive fog]

Which is why I feel the Alpha Legion, as well as Kaldor Draigo, have simply been tricked and decieved.

[naive abyss]

Like being smarting than him is not hard

[naive fog]

I wont argue with that. Hehe

[pulsar cairn]

TTS draigo is great

also how the fuck did he end up in warhammer fantasy

just warp shenanigans?

[upper canopy]

The Warp is the Warp for the most part

[naive abyss]

Yes and I'm not even sure how canon that is now lol

[upper canopy]

Regardless of setting.

[naive fog]

Honestly? Kaldor Draigo is just a power fantasy OC, do not steal, of Matt Ward's in my opinion, but still.

[thin ibex]

I don't think Kaldor DID outfox tzeentch. He's stuck in the warp and has no way to break the curse

[naive abyss]

Well in fairness the realm of magic is a bit different than the warp lol

[thin ibex]

and for all his vaunted deeds, none have lasting effects in the warp

[pulsar cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-kaldor-draigo-secret-visit-in-my-ear-gif-18134962

[naive fog]

Mortarion’s Heart basically says as much. Clarifying what the codex did not on Kaldor Draigo.

[naive abyss]

My fave tts thing is still stern

"I require PROTEIN"

[pulsar cairn]

who says that again?

[naive abyss]

Stern

[naive fog]

While I don't hate Matt Ward, and more just disagree with some of his writing, there is one thing that gets me to dislike him... And that is the whole having Grey Knights kill a group of Adepta Sororitas and draw runes of protection against demons with their blood. More then a bit messed up I feel.

[naive abyss]

I think that was actually retconned but I'm not one hundred on that

[naive fog]

I hope it was reconned, it was stupid. Sighs

[thin ibex]

its still one of the more bizarre events in grey knights history

and expressly one I choose to omit from my view of them as a faction. Mostly because its stupid

[pulsar cairn]

ooh

[naive fog]

Though perhaps I am a bit bias, since Adepta Sororitas are one of my favorite factions and I, at times, feels Grey Knights are a middle finger to them.

[thin ibex]

Even being a space wolf fan, I also choose to, for the most part, consider the act of Logan Grimnar beheading a grandmaster unapposed and unchecked as a traditionally told Space Wolf branded tall tale of the exploits of logan grimnar, and choose to believe that the real events of that day were probably more harrowing

but the space wolves will never deliver an accurate account of it, and the grey knights are sworn to eternal secrecy regarding it

[floral herald]

I think I am in an extreme minority but I actually sort of like the GK fluff there

I like how it demonstrates the extreme brutality and ends justify the means ethos the GK have for their mission

Even if they kind of softened them from "the SOP to kill all witnesses" recently

[thin ibex]

I'm generally down for most of the GK fluff around those events; but I don't really buy that Logan is so much more lethal and capable that a grandmaster and his immediate staff was incapable of reacting to the chapter master of hte space wolves killing their grandmaster, nor able to stop him or his wolfguard from then leaving intact

the rest of that? Yeah I think that happened

[pulsar cairn]

you mean that one time they uuhh...you know what nvm

[thin ibex]

but a grandmaster, within the purview of hte setting, is likely to be one of the most capable warriors in the galaxy

of course logan is no slouch, but i have a hard time buying the way that encounter played out

[naive fog]

What do you mean? That one time they 'what'?

[pulsar cairn]

[floral herald]

I sort of agree, but I also think it sort of makes sense

The SW were made to solve problems like space marines while the GK are an intensely specialized force

Like their air support doesn't traditionally carry antitank weapons cause they use missiles filled with like soul vapor to fuck up daemons and such

[pulsar cairn]

they killed a bunch of sisters and....uhhh...used their blood...cause holy stuff i guess...

i feel weird saying it

it's just so...urgh

[naive fog]

Oh, I mentioned that here!

[brittle salmon]

Someone literally put that up there, yeah

[naive fog]

Already brought that up. Lol

[thin ibex]

I can see your point yeah; though I still think, EVEN IF logan did manage to behead a grandmaster uncontested and in a single swipe; in the aftermath, he and/or his wolf guard almost certainly took some sort of counterblow on the way out.

I imagine the ensuing short melee was brutal; and the wounded survivors tell it like it was a saga

rather than as it happened

[floral herald]

Oh yeah I think probably that is a tall tale

[naive fog]

Yeah, I don't see most chapters taking the beheading of their grandmaster without challenge.

[floral herald]

I just don't think its unreasonable for the guys the Emperor sicc'd on rogue space marines to be able to fight space marines better than the monofocused antidaemon guys

[thin ibex]

some guy who lost an arm is like "yeah and we walked out like it was nothing pup"

and the blood claw is like "so what happened to your arm?"

[naive fog]

"Oh, this? Completely unrelated." Hehe

[thin ibex]

"ehhhh.... I lost it to a mighty daemon on armageddon pup"

"Stabbed it through the eyes with my stump I did, and slew it's companions with its weapon in my free hand!"

blood claw just like 🤩 "Fuck yeah!"

[pulsar cairn]

oh right

[floral herald]

"had to fight without it, otherwise it wouldn't have been sporting"

[naive abyss]

If gk got a scale update that fixed how doofy their wrist bolter looked I'd probably collect them as my rival to my belakor homebrew faction of daemons

Also I wonder if belakor is gonna be usable in old world

[thin ibex]

they're my brothers favorite faction, I've been meaning to pick up a strike squad to build him a KT with them at some point

[naive abyss]

Cuz I Love his new model

[thin ibex]

He also wants the Kasrkin KT, but I think itd honestly be easier to do GK atm

the kasrkin Kt is sold out a lot

i understand that their KT isn't exactly great, but I don't think he'll mind all that much

[naive abyss]

Also I like the idea of my undivided warband cooperating with belakor cuz their goals align enough for now with both thinking "I'll kill them later"

[thin ibex]

man, if i was swimming in money

id just get the belakor models by itself

with no army to go with

that thing is kinda sick

[naive abyss]

Valid

[thin ibex]

imagine painting belakor with vantablack

[naive abyss]

It's the best named fantasy chaos model atm imo

[thin ibex]

wouldnt it like... get too hot tho?

i understand vantablack absorbs heat like crazy

[naive abyss]

I mean if you leave it in the sun maybe

[naive fog]

That has been the one thing holding me back from even attempting to keep up with new editions and try to have a full army. It is just too damned expensive.

[naive abyss]

Also vanta isn't the blackest now if memory serves lol

[thin ibex]

oh snap

i wonder if you can like gradient the vantablack effect

[naive abyss]

I'm a hobbyist so that matters basically zero percent to me lol

[thin ibex]

so that you can have it spread out to his wings in greater intensity

or his sword

like make the flames on the sword a true black kinda thing

would be a dramatic look

I also have a mild interest from the mechanicas side of things of building a belakor daemon army would be useable in 40k AND AoS

[naive fog]

Someday, I would love to make a large Tzeentch Chaos Daemons and Thousand Sons army set.

[thin ibex]

Only downside of that vantablack effect is that it kinda visually flattens things. Which might be a negative if not used sparingly

[naive fog]

Also, a full T'au Empire army, with both T'au and Kroot at least... And a Necrons army.

But I know that I would need a lot of money for that dream. Sighs

[jaunty dawn]

Unfortunately Belakor daemon army doesn't really exist currently in aos

[thin ibex]

I'm working very slowly at building my tau army tbh. Hobby wise I'm a novice, amateur at best

[floral herald]

I think those super black paints are a little too thick for models

But I'm not sure

[topaz elk]

https://youtu.be/HtzsIcvxCto?si=tRVUCyPixgMCmfhB

[uneven ember]

I do think it's kinda funny how most of the traitor Primarchs get like "his grand passions wore at his loyalty to his father and the nobility of his purpose until he fell to madness and damnation" and then Fulgrim is like "he found an evil sword in a loot drop and it turned him evil"

[jaunty dawn]

honestly theres an abundance of evil blade based turns

why I like lorgar

[unreal cosmos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr5_jQRsVBM

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gEA0s_LRVM

[desert jay]

He also sorta went mad and gave in to the sword after beheading his brother

[final tide]

Q if you’ve built a brutalis

How’re the hands?

Like for the option parts of bolter v melta

[uneven ember]

Yeah, which is fair, but it's still the evil sword that drove him to that point.
Like, you've got Lorgar who's had his worship rejected by the Emperor and looks for something that wants it, Magnus doing nothing wrong, Perty and Angry Ted understandably angry over getting a pretty raw deal
and then "evil sword"

I do feel like the general reaction to "so Konrad turned evil" would have to be "yeah that scans" though

[runic swallow]

Konrad was just a bad egg tbh

Least surprising life path galactic winner

[spice flicker]

For fighting midfield and pushing forward, is it better to have a chaos knight castigator (480 points) or double gatling despoiler (470 points)?

[desert jay]

Konrad had the predetermination blackpill arc like Jadis but with more stabbing and eyeliner

[naive abyss]

https://www.deviantart.com/orniris/art/The-Veiled-Angel-Warhammer-40-000-Fan-Art-989077589

this is once again making me crave generic saint rules

lemme make my own imperial daemon dammit gw

based on a kickass conversion too

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/G8bYq1

[uneven ember]

ohhh, that's cool

[thin ibex]

iirc they're relatively balanced; the claws are a more high octane melee threat, while the fists give them a bit more ability to shoot on the approach

if you're reasonably confident they'll get into melee

claws are the way

if i run space wolves or blood angels, i run claws lol, if i run salamanders, i run fists

[final tide]

Dark Angels, I think fists it is

[naive abyss]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Ke6L9x

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Za53wx

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/d0kmgX

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xYbDZr

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/wJrBDO

[tall depot]

man chaos warriors are so cool
love the simplicity of their design too

[naive abyss]

they remain the single coolest chaos thing imo

[tall depot]

honestly i kinda agree

[naive abyss]

like ill fully admit im biased cuz im sitll very chuffed with my image kit bash using the new dragon for my chaos lord

also cuz i love the name i gave her. Hellehild Blackhammer the Burning Butcher

and the dragon is Witchtooth the Wyrd

whose just is like an ostracized albino who ended up getting addicted to warpstone

[tall depot]

those are some sick names

[naive abyss]

theyre just so fun

like just this lovely mix of silly and cool

like my lord lasses name is literally just more or less if translated hell war black hammer lol

also she leads a militantly undivided chaos band

    Hellehild leads the warband known as the Bearers of the Burning Brand. They are a militantly Chaos Undivided group of warriors. So much so they shall without question or a single word spoken attack any warband aligned to one of the Chaos Gods. They see such aligned warriors as a disease upon the purity of Chaos. They in fact do not believe the gods are truly divine and refuse to recognize them as anything more than parasites upon the great whole that is Chaos.

    In battle they are known for their unflinching ferocity and fiery appearances. Those few who have survived a battle with them have spoken of warriors that glower out from their helms with a fierce burning light while they cleave through their foes with weapons glowing with searing heat. At the end of every battle the warband conducts the same ritual. 

Captured enemies who are unaligned to one of the “Gods” are offered a choice. Abandon all prior creeds to accept the Brand of True Chaos or burn on the pyre. For those who take the brand it wracks the recipient in the dark bale fires of Chaos transfiguring them into a new bearer of the brand. It is said the brand always burns and glows with searing heat no matter how long the bearer has had it. For those who refuse or who are aligned…there is only the pyre.```

[thin ibex]

I am randomly reminded of that time kurze tried to taunt Vulkan by saying his teleporter wouldn't work and big V was just like "its also a hammer"

[naive abyss]

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf8l1wV-Ec8&ab_channel=AnvilofDoomMiniatures

[jovial berry]

Teeny tiny army

Speaking of Army I need to find storage space for my army

[mental birch]

Wait

Hahah

Niceee

This story implies female space marines

[upper canopy]

It's tagged Sororitas

[mental birch]

Yes but Victoria is implied to be Astartes

Purity Seals are an oath of moment thing

[upper canopy]

No purity seals are kinda

everywhere

[mental birch]

Purity seals are often inscribed with an oath of moment. They are affixed to the power armour with a wax seal by a Chapter serf before battle.

Goddamit

Warhammer Community

I only ever really see purity seals on space marine funs

Guns

[runic swallow]

Nah, they’re all over Echlisiarchy stuff too

[mental birch]

But the Echlisarchy won't put them on skull guns

Isn't that literally why the sisters exist?

[runic swallow]

They’re a way for the Echlesiarchy to have an armed force, and all the trappings come with it

[upper canopy]

The Sisters exist as a legal loophole because some dumbass used gendered language in a legal document

[naive abyss]

Lol yeah

Like I'm all here for gay lady marines but I don't think that's what this is

[mental birch]

I mean like I don't recall seeing any bolt Pistols without the fleur on the sisters

Sprue

But I remember them being very common on marine sprues

[unreal cosmos]

I think that's just there as a visual embellishment for the purpose of the joke

[mental birch]

I mean more skull+seal

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/2A_JJEX-QzI?si=E6b9PTeAnQND34mp

[past sphinx]

Purity seals are a gold star good boy sticker for not being corrupted by chaos in any fashion

Space marines get em because they fight a lot of daemons BUT I believe there's one or two models from the vostroyans that have one

[naive abyss]

Sob also pretty often have them lol

[past sphinx]

Because machinery are just as open to daemons as dudes

[naive abyss]

I think this multi melta has a skull on it but hard to tell also lol

[past sphinx]

Yeah that's an auric skull with the galo

Represents big E iirc

Seraphim got loads of them seals

[uneven ember]

hah

[naive abyss]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/best-warhammer-cubicle-7-books

[naive abyss]

https://vxtwitter.com/VaevictisMinis/status/1713873840722362375

[uneven ember]

ooohh, neat

[unreal cosmos]

wild vibes

[thin ibex]

you know, something i thought about, SoB, regardless of meta, probably are probably a forgiving to play feeling army thanks to their main mechanic being dice fixing

was thinking a bit similar with aeldari

though aeldari don't have the benefit of a rock solid average save

[jaunty dawn]

Idk if I'd agree

knowing when to use it isn't very intuitive

and sisters are super squishy without the speed or punch of eldar

[thin ibex]

hmm, thats fair

i suppose also something like sm where every unit tends to meet a baseline benchmark of ability is also probably better than dice fixing

was figuring the "i actually rolled a 6 and not a 1" is feels good mechanic

[jaunty dawn]

well you have to choose the dice before you roll

is the thng

[naive abyss]

https://hrodvitnon.tumblr.com/post/183165198014/louen-leoncoeur-high-paladin-of-couronne-from

[naive abyss]

https://youtu.be/XbwJDr4QyQ4?si=Ccc0EwF1B-LlWcVK

i love sugs sorta candid but positive style in this ngl

[pulsar cairn]

i think i asked once before if the Traitors used the Astronomicon

besides the imperials who else depends on warp travel?

[quaint compass]

Tau, votann, orkz, basically any that aren't necron, eldar, or tyranids

[upper canopy]

https://vxtwitter.com/WH40kbestof/status/1715734684422812119

[pulsar cairn]

wait, how do the necrons travel through space?

[upper canopy]

Inertialess drives

[pulsar cairn]

idk what that is

[upper canopy]

My basic understanding of it is that like

It preserves the kinetic energy of a thing while turning it's mass, effectively, to 0

So you have this giant engine attatched to something that weighs less than an atom

And thus FTL

I could be super wrong though idk the science behind techno-babble

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/99do8a/overview_of_necron_ftl_technology_part_ii/

[quaint compass]

From my lack of knowledge on the subject, seems sound and right

[pulsar cairn]

well

that makes me think

if the Astronomicon does go down

it would make things really scary

[upper canopy]

That's everything north of the great rift, yeah

[pulsar cairn]

Nids and crons would just do whatever they felt like

[mental birch]

I mean nids would just continue

But the Imperium grinds to a halt

[tired cairn]

Maybe the nids would become less focused, because they would be longer be bugs drawn to a giant light source

[mental birch]

Tau might slow down?

Like as far as I can tell the Astronomicon is generally a very useful navigation tool anyone can use

[tired cairn]

How do the Tau use it?

[mental birch]

Not sure but like it's a large consistent light that can be used to orient yourself during warp travel

And like makes you able to spend more time in warp and travel further

Instead of having to transmit to realspace to get coordinates

[tired cairn]

Yeah, but I didn't think they used warp-sensitive beings for warp travel, nor fully entered it

[cloud flicker]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/kWIhtcfCXu

So I saw the Tau are doing really nicely now.

Was it just points changes or did something else bump them?

[mental birch]

Two things

Points change and their predators got slapped

[cloud flicker]

Wonderful

[mental birch]

But!

With the new codex, tau players who don't adapt to the Redemptor Disco

Will get slapped down

[cloud flicker]

Pain

[mental birch]

CIB is not enough, you need railguns

[cloud flicker]

Less pain :)

[mental birch]

But your railguns are on frustratingly slow or way too bulky models

So depena on the terrain setup where you play?

[naive abyss]

It should be noted the votann don't really rely on the astronomicon

They use the votann beacons instead

[pulsar cairn]

which's also something that might not last forever

[pastel rampart]

https://vxtwitter.com/Mick19988/status/1716026278430847389

[upper canopy]

I saw this and definitely did not get it

[pastel rampart]

You'd have to read Frieren to really get it but the elf there has lived for over 1,000 years and will probably live for millenia more.

[naive abyss]

i mean ultimately nothing lasts forever

hell the webway is like slowly rotting or something as memory serves lol

also you know. i feel like theres allot of untapped potential in making like a horror warhammer video game

like i guess darktide sorta counts but thats not quite what i mean

[jaunty dawn]

alien isolation but with a lictor

deadspace but your a kin and there's a tyranid infested hulk

[naive abyss]

i mean hell alien isolation with a marine even

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah true

[naive abyss]

thatd be a vibe

tbh itd be cool to get like an lov survival horror game

[jaunty dawn]

catachan bait n switch horror game

[naive abyss]

lol

[jaunty dawn]

starts out as hoo ah military macho game

[mental birch]

That's literally just Predator

:p

[naive abyss]

tbh my biggest ask still is a warhammer fantasy crpg

id say maybe owlcat could do it next but tbh after the shit they said with rogue trader id rather someone else do it tbh

before they give some "legitimate plot reason" for not being able to play a femc in it or something lol

[jaunty dawn]

yeah

[naive abyss]

somewhat bizarre question

would it be sorta pointless to make a like distinct whfrp forum? or any other warhammer rpg forums for that matter lol

[lofty warren]

Test it out and if attendance is low move it back here

[pulsar cairn]

everyone's doomed

votann are doing well till their grandpa computers decay completely

webway weird(but let's be honest that's not the greatest issue in the Aeldari lives right now)

humans are humans

[upper canopy]

Everyone except ORKS BABY LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOO

https://tenor.com/view/waaagh-music-shootas-blood-and-teef-orks-orkz-green-music-gif-26367410

[lofty warren]

Orkz orkz orkz orkz

[quaint compass]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

[pulsar cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/orks-ork-waaaagh-slugga-boy-dawn-of-war-gif-15592891

[quaint compass]

https://tenor.com/view/shoota-boy-warhammer40k-kill-team-ork-wh40k-gif-26410400

[thin ibex]

Tau don't actually use warp travel, unless that changed recently

They use nearlight travel and a lot of stasis last I checked

Though they do travel across the cicatrix maledictum on rare occasion

[jaunty dawn]

they

do in some books not have ftl

however this makes the empire physically impossible

[quaint compass]

Don't they only do shallow warp jumps? Skimming short distances rather the deep and long dives the Imps do?

[thin ibex]

Not last I checked but I can check the lex

[jaunty dawn]

yeah that was what they had before

like

[thin ibex]

But they are a faction that doesn't really understand the warp or warp travel

[jaunty dawn]

rather than actually travelling the warp just flinging themselves through it

course correction etc all done in realspace

still slower than convential warp but definitely ftl. Doesn't require warpsight or gellar fields

[quaint compass]

Submarine space travel

[thin ibex]

Ah yeah they can do shallow skims, but they also have no astropaths, so the loss of the astronomicon wouldn't affect them at all

[jaunty dawn]

navigators not astropaths

[thin ibex]

Though that entry about the skims needs citation apparently

[quaint compass]

Citation: it came to me in a dream

[upper canopy]

Tau FTL lore sucks and is so incredibly bare-bones

[solemn gull]

Isn’t it just “they do small jumps”

[jaunty dawn]

basically someone at gw wanted the 4th wave disaster be the first tau experience of ftl without regard for the internal consistency of the setting and the reason why warp travel exists in the first place

[thin ibex]

they have REALLY good stasis tech

honestly the disaster crossing the damocles gulf was only possible without ftl

[thin ibex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqY4ejykdLM

its nice to see that the vanquisher, while being fairly low on the tiers, is not so far behind to be worthless

The TLDR

all of them weighted/presumed to be shooting in their niche

i.e lrbt targeting enemies on an objective, etc etc

the regular LRBT, Exterminator, and Demolisher seem to be the stand outs

but for 150 points the vanquisher isn't a non-taker

I think the LRBT and Exterminator are both the best generalists tho

the rr1's and rr wounds on enemies on an obj is real nice for the basic lrbt

[glossy vapor]

Learning more about the white scar is getting me dangerously close to wanting to actually start playing

[naive abyss]

i find it funny that the votann have more lore about their ftl than the tau do lol

[glossy vapor]

Actually, could you run a white scars/SM list with a focus on short range weapons like shotguns over Melee weapons

[uneven ember]

The only Space Marines I can think of with shotguns are Scouts.

[naive abyss]

deatwatch

but theyre more an exception that proves the rule lol

[glossy vapor]

Damm

I basically want to play a shooting army but I also really like everything about the white scars.

[naive abyss]

what do you like about them? cuz depending it may be stuff thats aggressively not actually supported in official models lol

[glossy vapor]

Going off the vibes I've gotten reading about them:

-fast and aggressive but in a calculated way rather than space wolves/black Templars "god I just love hitting things" sort of way

-bikes and fast attack vehicles are cool

-apparently they have a good amount of psykers which is also cool.

[naive abyss]

well since youve not mentioned their cultural stuff or general aesthetic than you should be good lol

im just a bitter scars fan that wants some actual model love for them

[glossy vapor]

Some custom white scars models drawing from like Mongolian armor/riding gear would be very cool

Also a excuse to paint less white, which I have heard is a awful color to work with

[floral herald]

I think Deathwatch are the most weird close range weapon focused space marines yeah

I think their weird shotgun is just called something vaguely like "long vigil special weapon" or something dumb though

[jaunty dawn]

white is not as bad as the rep

although gw white isn't great generally speaking

but a mix of quality paint availability increasing and the gestalt development of the warhammer community's painting ability means it's not like it used to be

[glossy vapor]

Tau sounds cool (Lancer player is interested in the mecha faction) but the model variety doesn't quite do if for me for some reason

[jaunty dawn]

(even in gw paints I think a white basecoat with the apothecary white contrast in recesses will do fine)

[glossy vapor]

I want either non biped mechs or more auxiliaries, because their supposed to be the alien empire faction

[lofty warren]

Dont hold your breath

Xenos generally end up getting one faction only focused on at a time

Rn its nids

[jaunty dawn]

We'll get more kroot at some point

although it could just be a new kit for the existing kroot I guess

[lofty warren]

There was the kill team

[uneven ember]

I guess it is kinda weird that Dark Eldar, IIRC, actually have more allied species options (Archon's Court) than the T'au

[jaunty dawn]

non biped mechs probably not given the stormsurges reception

[naive abyss]

i mean we already know crons are getting a few new toys with their next dex

[lofty warren]

Cowards the lot of us

[naive abyss]

in fact supposedly everyone is getting new toys as they get their dexes

[jaunty dawn]

everyone is getting at least one model like in 9th

necrons are getting more than one though

[lofty warren]

Ill believe it when i see it

[jaunty dawn]

they've literally said there's gonna be more than just imotekh haha

rumour is orikan I think idk

[lofty warren]

Holograms

[uneven ember]

("Imotek" is the dumbest fucking pun and I love it)

[jaunty dawn]

oh there's also a reaaaaally old necron rumour engine

of a scythe with the necron cube effect thing

might even be the oldest unsolved one currently?

[lofty warren]

Orikan seems likely

When was trazyns last model update

Hes still on his first, isnt he?

[naive abyss]

i think allot of stuff is pointing at orikan and trazny new models

cuz theyre like the only non updated cron characters now i think

[lofty warren]

They got their duo book so getting revealed at the same time seems likely

[jaunty dawn]

trazyn was 2011

[pulsar cairn]

[jaunty dawn]

which was also his debut yeah

[pulsar cairn]

zandhrek is best

[jaunty dawn]

5th edition codex that introduced the idea they could even be people haha

[pulsar cairn]

also any recent lore on Trazyn?

[naive abyss]

the most recent was him being around on cadia when it fell

[pulsar cairn]

i see

i imagine he's still up to the same business

stealing people and people's stuff

[jaunty dawn]

Szeras and Imotekh are the only models to have updates yet

[pulsar cairn]

which one is Szeras?

[jaunty dawn]

the illuminor

big crab man

[lofty warren]

Hes the spider legs guy

[floral herald]

Technically it predates it but only in black library stuff

[lofty warren]

Got a cool vignette model

[floral herald]

And Xenology

[pulsar cairn]

first time hearing about him

is he a bodyguard like Obyron?

[jaunty dawn]

Trazyn the Infinite, Zahndrekh and Obyron, Orikan the Stormlord, Anrakyr the Traveler

Szeras is a cryptek

[floral herald]

There were a weird number of old short stories with sassy necron lords

[pulsar cairn]

what's that?

[jaunty dawn]

who did the biotransferrance

which made necrons into bots

Crpyteks are like scientists/magicians/court officials

[pulsar cairn]

i thought that was the silent king's fault

[jaunty dawn]

Szeras is the one who actually implemented the process

Ctan gave the knowledge

Silent King gave the order

[pulsar cairn]

so the SK just gave them the greenlight

[jaunty dawn]

yeah he was convinced by the c'tan it was a good idea

by The Deceiver

and then Szeras was put in charge of actually doin it

[uneven ember]

You know it's a good idea to go along with a plan you get from a dude named The Deceiver.

[jaunty dawn]

yeah it should really have been obvious ngl

[pulsar cairn]

what's his stance on their current condition? is he more SK aligned or does he not care about being a beeping booper

[jaunty dawn]

SK has convinced him that his desire for like ultimate evolution will require reversing biotransferance

[pulsar cairn]

i see

[unreal cosmos]

So unless I'm misreading something, the good news is 1. in the new edition, any Chapter can support any playstyle because their specialties are divorced from the actual rules, and 2. despite the somewhat surprising lack of shotguns, you still have some good options for hit-and-run shooty guys

[floral herald]

I forget the name but there's a "make weapons assault" one which might work pretty well

[unreal cosmos]

from what I've heard the detachment meant to represent the Scars specialty is undermined slightly by the fact that there just aren't a ton of (new and supported) biker units so it's a little tricky to build around them

[floral herald]

Firestorm assault force tehre we are

I think its the salamanders themed one

[jaunty dawn]

can always make models with shotguns without changing the rules

especially with that detachment for the assault and close range flavour

[unreal cosmos]

that's tru

[jaunty dawn]

I think phobos units with shotguns would look dope tbh

[unreal cosmos]

I recently saw some good 3d-printed shotgun bits

[unreal cosmos]

I kinda wish the phobos guys had stuck with the scout weapons, I think Reivers especially would look fantastic

[jaunty dawn]

especially with how non distinct the infiltrator/incursor weapons are yeah

[unreal cosmos]

https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/611772/files/8708178/citadel-48-70-40k-sm-primaris-reivers-combat-squad.jpg tho maybe their weird carbine things might scratch the close-quarters shootiness itch for Saltuga anyway

[glossy vapor]

Shotguns are cool but I'm not ride or die on that type, I mostly just want to have a playstyle of shooting while running circles around my opponent then falling in for a quick, in and out melee strike when it's possible. Basically the stereotypical idea of the mongol mounted archery style. I don't want the style of "charge in quickly with only Melee then stay there until they are dead"

[unreal cosmos]

I'm not super well-versed in the most recent edition but they were definitely good at that in 9th

[jaunty dawn]

stormlance can do that

[unreal cosmos]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/49/InvaderATV.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220711152938 how do you feel about this

because they have a neat thing where they can provide covering fire for bikes

[glossy vapor]

it reminds me of the halo warthog, which i like, but unlike the warthog i think it looks stupid asf.

[pulsar cairn]

that gun is a lol too close to the pilot's head

[dense sedge]

agreed, not just that but it's so low to the gorund

the warthog is at elast a beliavable design (to a layman) for a military off road technical

I'd like to see the GSC get a technical

[brittle salmon]

They sorta have one? The ridgerunners

But only sorta

[pulsar cairn]

i want the genestealer cowboy

[dense sedge]

it doesn't have that 'guy standing on the back with a machine guy' vibe

kelermorph is really cool yeah

I'd love a abberant heavy weapon squad, genestealer hounds or vermin swarms, and a master biophagus

[naive abyss]

ngl i like this unhelmeted version of the skinny ogre

[dense sedge]

also partriach should be a super scary super expensive unit, instead they're currently 85 points, less than a 90 point primus

[dense sedge]

free guilds recent stuff is so good

[dense sedge]

I'm predicting that cities will lose its old fantasy stuff and become basically a dark fantasy version of the warhammer alliance

[pulsar cairn]

why

[naive abyss]

just do

helps he has a beard

[pulsar cairn]

not what i mean

i mean why is he a tower?

[naive abyss]

cuz mobile sniping tower

its an ironically more practical version of the idea of stilt admech

[pulsar cairn]

his poor neck tho

[lofty warren]

is it on his head or just in a backpack

i looks like a backpack

[pulsar cairn]

i don't have my glasses on

i mean i didn't

looked like it was on his friggin head

[lofty warren]

i had to open the photo in browser and zoom in to check

so dont worry about that

[unreal cosmos]

I think a lot of people thought that

[uneven ember]

WHO RUN BARTERTOWN

[brittle salmon]

How has no one posted the Freeguild Command Corps yet

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/yEXKGwDqeckX7Wly.jpg

These models fuckin rule

[floral herald]

This seems pretty strong

[brittle salmon]

The Whisperblade is "simple" but one of the most evocative models I've seen in a long while

[floral herald]

I'm very tempted to paint up some of the models I have as Fists

Also yeah those are great

[brittle salmon]

Think I'll buy a box and get my friend to paint em up

[brittle salmon]

Also yeah this ability is fuckin good

Your Dudes hitting on 2s when stationary or wounding better is fantastic

[floral herald]

yeah its super strong looking

[brittle salmon]

I feel like its either gonna get nerfed or some of the other abilities or gonna be brought back up

Like the First Company one is uhhh

Just...not that great

[floral herald]

Oh huh yeah that's kind of lame

First chumpany lol

[brittle salmon]

Getting old Oath of Moment back a whole once per game is nothing compared to "buff all ranged dudes forever"

[floral herald]

The Raven Guard one is also really good

[brittle salmon]

Yeah that one is uh

I think it's the best one

Ngl

[floral herald]

Yeah that's so much survivability

Admittedly I'm not looking at strategems and some of them might use those as a level

[brittle salmon]

You basically have old Armour of Contempt back at beyond 12 inches

Even better, since it minuses the hit

This will completely rinse gunlines

[lofty warren]

Is there a distinction between cover and benefit of cover

[floral herald]

no

[brittle salmon]

Nope

[floral herald]

Benefit of Cover is what being in cover gives

Oh jeez anvil looks good

These are both quite strong

[brittle salmon]

yeeaaah

Battle Drill Recall especially

[zinc field]

Calling it now, BDR is going to become 2CP next balance patch.

[floral herald]

Would not shock me

[brittle salmon]

Especially if the weapon already has Dev Wounds or something

That's cracked

[zinc field]

Do centurion devastators still get full rerolls on objectives in the codex?

That's the combo that jumps out at me

[dense sedge]

I love the command corp

Get make me want to start a aos army

[naive abyss]

i just noticed the no helmet ogre has a cool top knot too

hell yeah

[unreal cosmos]

I've been reading up on 30k Imperialis Militia rules and a lot of the new CoS models seem like they could be great for it

[jaunty dawn]

excited for the cities book to be out so I don't have to use sheets for list theorybuilding

probably won't come to fruition at all into old world is out and wood elves are for sale again but I've somehwat gotten over my dissapointment with the changes and have some ideas for cool living city/wanderer conversions for the new stuff

namely using Sisters of the Watch as fusiliers with a nomad prince or the like in a tree for fusil-major. With one of the quiver bugs from kurnoth hunters as the ammo boy

and probably some kinda cool lady outriders for cavaliers, combining the options in the sisters of the thorn/wild riders box

[naive abyss]

i wonder how long itll be till we see some kislev models for old world

cuz i remember them saying that was in the plan ages back