Pathfinder

[wraith snow]

Have you considered Magus' Analysis? Not the most exciting but your high INT and low feat demand make you a good recall candidate

Plus it's light on action econ since if it works you get your spellstrike charge back

[tight flare]

That's not bad actually

[wraith snow]

Always possible to get a dedication later once you have the WIS/CHA to get into Cleric/Sorc/Oracle

[warped orbit]

Yes, because you're supposed to use them to recharge

All the conflux spells recharge your spellstrike and do another thing

Also it doesn't

Since Mulberry doesn't involve either a spell attack or save, so you can't spellstrike with it

[trim grotto]

I wanna play a shoony investigator that is just blatantly Isabelle animal crossing

[tight flare]

Trying to decide on a level 2 skill feet

[warped orbit]

What skills are you good at?

[tight flare]

Arcana and athletics are my best

Also crafting

Arcana, athletics, crafting, guild lore, occultism, society

Those are my best (+7 or around there)

[surreal basin]

Yes because their focus spells recharge spellstrike

They are explicitly not for striking

[tight flare]

Ouch at today's session.
Entire party managed to survive despite everyone being at less than 5 HP left and all with 1d6 per turn or more of bleed

Fighter couldn't roll above natural 1s

It was fun though o_o

We burned almost all hero points

[solar storm]

Oh yeah that seems like it could make it tedious

Oh I was a little further back than I realized....

[tribal steeple]

Even without the summons, it just wasn't fun to engage with because it's entirely nonsensical. Nothing makes sense, the only way to progress is through trial and error (and it's almost ALL errors).

[balmy orchid]

Spoilers for Season of Ghosts

I've been blorboing my guy so much

Our party is so good

[echo briar]

So pathbuilder is still being DDosed.

It’s mitigated for now, but whoever’s doing this has changed attack vector’s before so they might be able to take it down again.

My question, why are people doing this without saying anything? If this was a ransom, there should be demands. If this is about advertising the DDos system, people should be bragging. But no one’s said anything.

[turbid dagger]

At this point we know they're targeting Pathbuilder in general, not it's hosting service, so it's entirely possible they like
Don't like Pathbuilder or the guy who makes it, or Pathfinder or w/e

[balmy orchid]

I need to find a good OP to use for Season of Ghosts.....

[oak pilot]

there's always the official soundtrack up on youtube

[balmy orchid]

Need show intro...........

[rustic cape]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TF_UAh1CQw

[oak pilot]

ah, mononoke is a great pull then

[balmy orchid]

Oh shit hole in one I think

[tight flare]

That is one fine anime

The first movie is great too, haven't seen the second one yet

Only thing I dislike is the pacing in the movie is reeeeally insane

It's almost exhausting to watch it

[oak pilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBFDb0hC4Y also consider, perhaps for a more chill ED

[solar thorn]

The dwarf fortress soundtrack is superb for a calm, almost melancholic vibe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1z_oglQsUw

[desert vale]

Pathfinder should have squid-kobolds who hate octopus

[tribal steeple]

Cuttlefish

[desert vale]

Im not certain how many trickster fox creatures there are in pathfinder. And if any pf them are evil. But.

There should be a type of hag with fox tails who like to imperersonate other kinds of fox tailed creature

[cosmic sable]

does anyone else have issues with this spell? i know spellcasters are crazy strong but this has just completely trivialized my campaign. I'd love to hear some gming advice.

[errant roost]

what're some examples of a time it's caused you problems?

[cosmic sable]

oh i was doing a bit sorry

because the game is Pathfinder

😅 committed too hard

[errant roost]

ah! well, good news, you managed to exactly simulate Spell Discourse

[cosmic sable]

lmaooo

[desert vale]

Blehp.

Hmm. Monsters being defined.

[desert vale]

Just. Thinking about hags have defined strategies in the 2e Monster Core.

[desert vale]

Blehp.

What if gun nut elf?

If you grant divine spells to someone are you aware of them?

[wraith snow]

What are the best ways to try and maximize crit chances for a non-Fighter/Gunslinger martial? Positioning for off-guard, tripping, and frighten are the first things that come to my head but I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious

[warped orbit]

Pretty much just buff and debuff stacking yeah

[wraith snow]

Yeah, just not sure if there's many easy way to access buffs beyond the obvious answer of "the caster does it"

[warped orbit]

A lot of it does come down to spells

[fossil dome]

Give the slinger all the party's gold, so they can get a +1 gun first

[wraith snow]

Ended up deciding to just commit to fighter if I'm going to be critfishing that much

Mopstly going to forego classfeats in favour of archetype feats, but the core of the character is a Kashrishi fighter using the horn as a weapon with the weapon spec set to Brawling

[tribal steeple]

critspec: stunned 1 is really good

[wraith snow]

Sure is

My goal is to use the Student of Perfection archetype, mostly for this: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=901

[tribal steeple]

I got do do a Heavenseeker Monk once, it was a lot of fun.

[wraith snow]

I'm split between doing the Heavenseeker feats for Skyseeker or doing the Unfolding Air feat line from Student of Perfection

Unfortunately no free archetype so I'm spending class feat slots on these

I originally was thinking Great Pick Barb but I wasn't sure I could find a way to crit consistently enough

[rustic cape]

I wish to build a silly dual-class build

But I am uncertain as to what

[wraith snow]

I love that one of the suggested Skeleton names is "Doorstop"

[desert vale]

2e harpies are cool. And I really like the Herexen

[tight flare]

I'm fighting against Foundry VTT here, trying to make unfurling brocade work

Anyone here done so successfully?

The bladed scarf is supposed to inherit runes from armwraps

[warped orbit]

Nanocyte as an archetype?

that's kinda disappointing

[turbid dagger]

Yeahhhhhh

[surreal basin]

Junkomancer sounds like it fucking rules tho

[turbid dagger]

I'm most excited for just
New weapons
TBH

The current roster is weirddddddddddddddd

[surreal basin]

I’m most excited for tactical starship combat baby

[turbid dagger]

That IS a close second

[eager mountain]

i cant wait for technomancer

[turbid dagger]

(Abomination Vaults Spoilers)
One of the craziest fucking situations that's ever happened at one of my tables is currently occuring

||That white square is Urevian's cast of Force Wall||

[turbid dagger]

||After a freak crit, the Cleric is on Dying 2 without any hero points with her life literally in the almost dead hands of Urevian, who has succesfully coerced the rest of the party into cooperating for now to save her||
||Next session, they'll be figuring out a way to save both Addy and their immortal souls from a devil with all the good cards!||

I was hoping to make my players sweat a bit but maybe not this much

[balmy orchid]

Wouldn't waiting until the next session replenish their hero points thus letting them die with impunity?

[turbid dagger]

My player cheekily brought this up themselves, but ||considering they only lived to be held ransom by some GM fiat (Urevian dispelled the infernal wound on them) I think everyone understands we are now in Narrative The Cleric Can Die If They Play Wrong Mode||

[tight flare]

Sounds badass. We had something similar happen earlier against a certain creepy crawly dude in the same campaign

We got completely schooled, two characters dead

Persistent damage is a thing

Our investigator decided to give himself up, and temporarily left the campaign, joining the him as an assistant, kinda

That players replacement character was an adorable teddy bear dude (poppet?)

A poppet champion

[surreal basin]

Thinking fondly about how my group has done enough APs to have had a genuine impact on our version of golarion

Made an alliance between Xulgaths from the darklands and Absalom, established a school of monster hunters, at least 2 new deities, a sanctuary demiplane for the lost and the damned to retreat to, a lot of governmental change in Geb

We also gave the main villain of gatewalkers amnesia and turned them into a good guy

[turbid dagger]

Eyyyyy
Last session of my Guilt Of The Graveworld game I had the party's dwarven employer regale them with the tale about how a group of brave adventurers discovered the last words of Sky King Taargick and ushered in an end to the hatred between dwarf and orc
AKA I hyped up one of my players' Sky King's Tomb table because they recently completed the AP 😌

[eager mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/klasik-clasik-clasic-gif-25398314

IIRc my team smoked that fucker

albiet, we have like , a rogue, a inventor, a fighter(werewolf) , a psychic and me, a wind/wood/water kineticist.

we got him in like 2-3 turns

that crit sound brutal

[eager mountain]

god I wish i could play starfinder 2e

but I still cant

i am going to be gming mothership eventually too

[desert vale]

Gonna. See if anyone buys the Pathfinder 2e core book from before the revision

But keep the pre revision bestiaries

[tight flare]

People here play Starfinder 2? Any good?
I've been kinda curious about it ever since our group moved from PF to PF2

[turbid dagger]

I've been running Guilt Of The Grave World! It's fun
It's sci fi PF2e with more ranged combat
That's about it!

Almost everything is the same outside of aesthetics

[desert vale]

Starfinder 2e character idea. Upper class twit goblin with an unreasonable number of dead relatives and no sense of srlf preservation

Probably an Envoy

[warped orbit]

I've been strongly considering just letting people play the SF2 classes in PF2 as well

Operative is really the only one I can kinda see cause some issues, and even that only kinda

actually now I wonder if you allowed Operative to use bows, if it would be actually just better...

[tight flare]

How's SF2 with cover?
I find cover is very unimportant in PF2, and I'veplayed so much Lancer i'm coverpilled now

[turbid dagger]

Cover definitely Happens, I haven't played enough to say how much
But the design intent is definitely that people try and take cover and such

[warped orbit]

Cover has been fairly relevant in PF2 as well for me at least, for ranged characters

[tight flare]

That's cool

[clever cobalt]

Cant wait for this book to come out

[sinful gyro]

Which book is this?

[balmy orchid]

Question

Where would be a cool place in Golarion to put a big dragon themed kingdom of drake riders

[clever cobalt]

Lost Omens High Seas I think

[surreal basin]

Arcadia is v mysterious

[sinful gyro]

Nice

[balmy orchid]

This WOULD be for players

[surreal basin]

Alternatively

If you don’t have plans to play kingmaker with this group

Make it in the stolen lands

The ambiguous OC kingdom spot

[balmy orchid]

Hrmmmm

[sinful gyro]

2e starfinder has that dragon planet

Is that based off a 2e pathfinder society?

[balmy orchid]

Okay I should more ask about landmasses sprcifically

Since I think i will be making my own kingdom in Golarion

Mainly looking at places with fitting extreme locales for a sorta monster hunter vibe and any connections to dragons being like

Secondary

Just needs to be a fitting blank canvas

[surreal basin]

Again, Arcadia don’t got shit on it

As well as uhhhh the fucked up hell continent that no one ever comes back from HunterxHunter style that Paizo hasn’t ever addressed

[balmy orchid]

Arcadia seems Americas-coded to me

[balmy orchid]

Fucked up hell continent you say

[surreal basin]

Yeah hold on

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Sarusan

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Casmaron

Casmaron is also p blank

[balmy orchid]

Is Avistan like

The main continent

[silver geyser]

Yes

[balmy orchid]

Gotcha

Whats Garund?

[silver geyser]

Technically another continent.

[balmy orchid]

The hell continent does seem like i could fit an entire monster hunter ecosystem in it

[surreal basin]

Africa

[turbid dagger]

Sarusan essentially exists specifically so people have a landmass they can hold entirely custom adventures on that are still On Golarion

[balmy orchid]

Okay thinking about dragons more

As one always should

A kingdom founded by two brothers, one human, one dragon, settled in a wild land where the two species have lived concurrently so long they largely consider themselves one

Where whenever a clutch of dragons is laid, special priests are sent to find children born the same day, and to test their blood on the egg to see if they are fated rider and drake

If they are they are, then the child is raised along the egg and the two grow up to join the elite military caste of drake riders

Kingdom is mainly humans and kobolds

But other people have drifted in and become stuck

Very rarely the kingdom is attacked by (alien threat) that causes significant calamity and purges a lot of the population

Dunno golarion too well

So I imagine a hellgate would be out of the question

[kind oracle]

psst pf2e heads here, book i've been waiting is on discount
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Bluesky · Mar 15, 2026, 5:23 PM

[solar thorn]

how many statuses do you have on you
"like 3 or 4"
you are little baby, watch this"

[steel blade]

smh not using the module that makes them form a circle around the token

[surreal basin]

wtf is happening to bro

[echo briar]

What are some good spells for a wizard to get from mythic magic?

I can choose 3 spells from any tradition, levels 1 or 2, and they are auto heightened to my highest spell level.

and I get to use mythic proficiency for the DCs.

Heal is obvious, but I'm not sure I really need things like cleanse affliction or sound mind.

[solar thorn]

Druid is dinomaxxing

[desert vale]

Evil dryads

Askafroa

[surreal basin]

I mean those are actually great choices because part of the problem with those is the fact that you need to heighten them

If you don’t want them that’s also fine but they are certainly good choices

[wraith snow]

It's a boring option but auto-scaling Dispel Magic sounds very strong

[surreal basin]

True lmao

[surreal basin]

Idea I had: debuffing focused bard muse called Grief

[turbid dagger]

Dirge Of Doom my beloved

[upbeat ridge]

there should be a trickster muse bard that's just being an annoying asshole

makes bon mot really good or something

[wraith snow]

That's more or less how I've been playing my Charisma-focused Witch

Fun times

[warped orbit]

https://paizo.com/blog/spring-errata-2026

they're changing the resistance and weakness stuff again

[warped orbit]

notably they are apparently making it so Resist All does not apply to each type separately anymore

Alchemist also got some changes, though they are somewhat mixed

Oracle also are apparently back down to 3 spells per level?

which is odd, since IIRC they previously said the 4 was correct

[echo briar]

That's weird, and a huge nerf to multiple classes.

[warped orbit]

yeah a rather sizeable Champion nerf

[wraith snow]

That's kinda wild to me.

Feels very unfortunate, the class already felt like it lost a lot of its identity in the remaster.

[echo briar]

That's not what it says.

[surreal basin]

They really need to stop messing with resistances and weaknesses lol

[echo briar]

it's 4 slots

[warped orbit]

oh I misread it, my bad

here's what it says on weakness and resistance now

another change in weaknesses with this is that you can stack type and material weakness now

[wraith snow]

So if something is weak to both slashing and cold iron, it would take both from a cold iron sword?

[warped orbit]

yes

[wraith snow]

I'll be honest, I didn't realize that wasn't already how it worked. It's not particularly likely to come up though I guess.

[surreal basin]

Tbh if the game wasn’t balanced around it the all resist thing is good tho

Previously those monsters were really hard to hurt

[warped orbit]

a single type can activate multiple applicable weaknesses, but only once each per attack/spell/source

which I think is probably how most people would have expected it to work

so resist all also only applies to only one damage type per attack now, but you choose which one/the most beneficial one

[surreal basin]

I think it’s honestly not as much of a champ nerf as it sounds

[warped orbit]

it is a rather strong nerf for cases where the enemy attack had multiple types

[surreal basin]

Usually with split damage types, one is significantly higher and is like

A rider effect

[echo briar]

On one hand, I'm very glad Paizo is doing more errata. On the other hand, they seem to be making some very weird structural changes that did not need fixing.

[surreal basin]

You’re usually not getting an attack that does know

3d8+4d6

[warped orbit]

that very much depends

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s a mixed bag but I much prefer it to the alternative

[warped orbit]

there are quite a few enemies that do split their damage like that

[echo briar]

I'm not really sure the change to resist all actually makes the game better

[surreal basin]

I mean

[warped orbit]

also some cases with enemies with three way split attacks, like a lot of fiends

[surreal basin]

Okay so like they said they came at it from monster design

[cyan raven]

poking my head in to express my extreme bafflement that they somehow nerfed inventor. advanced weapon access is now an improvement and not just default for weapon

[surreal basin]

Where previously resisted all was like

A huge problem

[echo briar]

it was always basically a improvement.

[warped orbit]

you already didn't gain an improvement if you took an advanced weapon

[surreal basin]

And would make monsters significantly tankier by basically disabling property runes

[cyan raven]

if only scaling damage was attained through levels and not exclusively property runes...

[surreal basin]

Well I mean yes you get more damage from fundamental runes but

Property rune damage is big for a lot of martials

[cyan raven]

thats what im saying

[surreal basin]

Also dear lord

[cyan raven]

(In the pf2e playtest you got way more damage dice on attacks, this was reduced but monster hp never was which is why hp balloons so much after like level 7)

[surreal basin]

Mhmhm

I admittedly don’t mind that as much since I think more HP is usually a fine way to make fights last a decent time since a lot of builds already like

Properly chunk through enemies lmao

[warped orbit]

interesting, that does kinda track with what I've seen of higher levels

[surreal basin]

It only really becomes an issue with guys with high defenses or really sponged chaff

IMO

I have played around with the idea of adding ur level to damage since that’s kinda how NPCs work but have never executed it

[warped orbit]

it's mostly that PL- enemies become increasingly tankier as levels go up, comparatively

[cyan raven]

level 16 enemies still take like 3 crits to kill as a level 20 martial. Its crazy

[warped orbit]

which is partially why the dynamic starts to kinda inverse at higher level, where one big PL+ enemy becomes easier but lots of PL- are harder

because you just can't take out a bunch of guys as quickly as at lower levels

[cyan raven]

Definitely

[wraith snow]

In the game I'm in where the party is level 19 we've ended a few fights early because the outcome was clear it just would've taken several rounds of cantrips and focus spells to get there

[cyan raven]

truly, they fixed high level play /s

[warped orbit]

oh also one minor Investigator change in the errata

[wraith snow]

Not really a challenge but also the fights would've eaten most of the session if we went all the way through it

[warped orbit]

Devise itself does not have the Fortune trait anymore, but the Strike you use the result on still gains it

so you can Hero Point your Devise roll now

[wraith snow]

Oh, nice

[surreal basin]

Also man

Paizos website will not load rn lmao

I love how the web update improved it in exactly 0 ways

[warped orbit]

The website is actually worse now in several ways

The shop at least

[cyan raven]

masterful gambit

[warped orbit]

One major thing being they apparently can't do stuff like giving you the PDF of an AP for free when you buy the Foundry module anymore

[wraith snow]

As an aside: my party is apparently 3-4 weeks away from finishing Kingmaker, which has taken just shy of 3 years. The session time was never moved and the player roster remains unchanged.

[surreal basin]

Yeah that one sucks big

[upbeat ridge]

"Toxicologist now can quick alchemy + apply a poison as a single action." HELL YEAH

[warped orbit]

Meanwhile massive Sticky Bomb nerf unfortunately

[warped orbit]

They did also clarify that Quick Alchemy poisons go away after 10 minutes

[surreal basin]

Man

They uh

Really should just make it so that any time something mentions Stride you can replace it with another move speed

Because they keep having to add it to shit lmao

[warped orbit]

Probably yes

Starfinder I think actually added a tag for that?

[echo briar]

yep

also, unrelated, apparently the new starfinder ancestry book has a whole bunch of generic ancestry feats

[surreal basin]

I just houseruled it

Also yeah it seems rad

[echo briar]

really hoping for a generic advanced weapon feat

[surreal basin]

Yeah bud. Let’s go look at the advanced weapons you’ll be able to use huh?
loading revolver

:p

[warped orbit]

it's neat tech, yeah

means they don't have to print all the [Ancestry] Weapon Familiarity feats and such all over

[warped orbit]

well funnily the change does the opposite now
where previously rainbow damage was majorly reduced by resist all, now it's the best way to fight incorporeal and stuff like them

[surreal basin]

Yeah that’s what I mean

[warped orbit]

yeah it's just that it makes what was already the best strategy for everything else now also significantly better for those cases

and by contrast makes ghost touch less important

[surreal basin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[turbid dagger]

Hey, there's That One D12 Assault Rifle

[warped orbit]

Magnetar Rifle my beloved

[turbid dagger]

😌
Living vicariously through my one player in Guilt Of The Grave World whose playing a Magnetar Soldier

[eager mountain]

behold

Rad Gnome

also I think I figured out waht kind of gnome my character is

Stellllar gnome

also , I have Galactic Ancestries now

if anyone has questions

[clever cobalt]

What acnestries are there again?

In the new book

[desert vale]

Leshy worshipper of Groetus who came to be in an abandoned ruin

Or maybe Imot

[sinful gyro]

Anyone want in? Got an invite for the starfinder beta

[warped orbit]

oh neat

I'd be interested definitely

[sinful gyro]

Do I have you on steam? If not poke me your friend ID

So turns out you need to have been friends for 30 days

And the beta ends on April 5th 🙁

[surreal basin]

damn

[surreal basin]

Am now making 2 multi-entity super bosses for the finale of my big campaign

[wraith snow]

Kingmaker spoilers: ||sub-1 round Nyrissa fight lmao||

[surreal basin]

We’re doing weird shit in kingmaker

Our GM has been going wild letting us recruit NPCs as companions

[eager mountain]

and some new heritages for each of the cores asweell

@clever cobalt

[wooden orbit]

I'm really liking some of the new ancestries, like the Copaxi, and the Madrosarai.

[summer whale]

Methinks my party may have bitten off a bit more than we could chew with this fight... (KM spoilers underneath)

not seen in this picture: my animal companion swooping in on the attack, missing his shot, and then getting hit by 2 nat 20s in a row

[balmy orchid]

Opening the door will make the situation different but not neccsarily worse

[summer whale]

yeah, we'll see if I can pull off some "Ranger is friend to all animals" bullshit with our new buddy when we reconvene in a couple of weeks

we def could've played things smarter than "my character instigated a fist-fight between several of the goons to draw the big bad in and our Guardian proceeded to punch the closest foe immediately afterwards", but hopefully we can manage 😅

we've got a few variables that could work to our favor, big and fuzzy over there included

[rustic cape]

My group started the fight by opening the door, and one member of the party was dead by the time it was over :D

[silver geyser]

One of my groups bluffed their way in, waited until night, then opened the door.

[wraith snow]

My group broke into the leader's bedroom at night, tried to finish it fast, failed, and ended up having a 10-man melee in a tiny corner of the map

[turbid dagger]

My group just uh
Rolled Up in the middle of the day like madmen
Climbed the walls, killed the archers, and cut through everybody
Admittedly we did nearly tpk

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/running-amleth-alexander-skarsgard-the-northman-im-coming-gif-25403446

[turbid dagger]

I think we had PLANNED to be fairly stealthy but the hillside e chose to attack from just so happened to be infested with undead just below the ground

[summer whale]

We scouted out the area the day before, so we sniffed those out in hilarious fashion (our yaoguai bard shapeshifted into her rabbit form to sneak closer to the fort, woke one of the zombies up, and ran in an absolute panic back to camp)

[surreal basin]

My group bluffed our way in and then turned the camp against each other

[rustic cape]

I ultimately think Kingmaker is kind of a mess. It opens pretty strong but loses a lot of cohesion after the actual kingdom building starts, and the kingdom stuff feels kinda ... pointless? And disconnected from the bulk of gameplay i.e. hexcrawling

I think it works better as a vidya where there's less pressure for anything to ever make sense >_>

[sturdy lagoon]

1e or 2e kingmaker?

[rustic cape]

2e is what I played

It has some good stuff, it just ... felt like it was falling apart at a certain point

[sturdy lagoon]

2e is kind of a different beast from it's original 1e form and IIRC wasn't Paizo's conversion

It pulls in a lot of the additions the CRPG made, and from what I've heard the kingdom builder rules are overly simplified

[rustic cape]

I wouldn't say they're overly simplified so much as they suck

they are definitely sufficiently open to constructing sprawling spreadsheets

[silver geyser]

They are very accurate kingdom building rules in that there's a shitton of spreadsheets.

[sturdy lagoon]

Didn't they remove the player stat scaling from the different positions (i.e. making it so that who did what actually mattered)?

Then there's also the fact that 2e is also way more cautious about breaking the player economy

[wooden orbit]

Has anyone heard any reviews on the Guilt of the Graveworld AP for Starfinder 2E?

[clever cobalt]

I know someone here was running it and enjoyed it

[wooden orbit]

I wanna play it so bad

[warped orbit]

@turbid dagger

[turbid dagger]

As implied by Allie's ping, I am running it! Do you want my not-very-in-depth general feelings ('It's pretty short but I loved reading the book and said reading has translated into a fun tabletop experience pretty consistently so far') or answers to specific questions and concerns

[wooden orbit]

[turbid dagger]

Oh actually, one addition to the general feelings- there's one pretty incoherent plot beat early on but I found it very easy to fix, if that sort of thing displeases you I can go into more detail, but if you aren't averse to a mild edit it's fine

The gist is ||the core plot mcguffin that drives the entire AP is a gene-locked computer file, and in the original AP the file is keyed to the DNA of Any Elebrian||
||You run into multiple opportunities to unlock it early but these are shut off by the Elebrians you meet at those points being extremely averse to assisting you for some reason or another||
||And that's not even going into out-of-bounds options like finding an Elebrian on Absalom Station, or a PC being an Elebrian||
||I solved all these issues pretty handily by just changing the DNA lock to be for a specific long-dead person, and the team needs to track down their last living descendant (the Elebrian the AP actually WANTS to use for this) to spoof the lock||

[wooden orbit]

I’d probably be a player so not sure if I should click that

@turbid dagger did anyone try playing an Elebrian or undead right off the bat?

[turbid dagger]

If you are a player, I advise you don't! You'd learn what I'm describing within a few sessions but yeah

[turbid dagger]

We had one undead, but they had to step away
Undead PCs work perfectly fine, an Elebrian PC totally and almost instantly breaks the adventures plot unless you do my changes

[wooden orbit]

reading the stuff about the living Elebrians from the player’s guide. Good lord the Elebrians that grow up and work within Zo! media is just nightmare fuel

[turbid dagger]

:3
If your GM is willing to make some changes (tell them to hit me up if they're stumped) Elebrian is a pretty fun thematic take outside of the giant plot hole

[green ruin]

Mostly unserious question: since the adventure has connections to Zo!, does it also have any connection to CityMcCityFace? (Formerly known as Zo)

[turbid dagger]

It does not!
Areas visited are, in order- ||Absalom Station, The Diaspora, Star Citadel Theodrane (very brief), Eox (Pact Port->Irradiated unpopulated wastes->Halls Of The Living in that order), The Drift, and The Vast||

[green ruin]

😔

[woeful pecan]

New blorbo alert, meet Cypria Dola, human andarde Kineticist

[desert vale]

Fun

[clever cobalt]

Is it just me or does this seem pretty good

1d6 onehanded martial reach weapon

[wraith snow]

yeah it's good, the hobgob pike is similar just with razing instead of versatile

I used a reach + tower shield build for a champion a while back and enjoyed it

[surreal basin]

It’s c solid

*v

[wraith snow]

I've also seen a thaum use it to good effect

[clever cobalt]

Yeah im debating getting this for my thaum

[rustic cape]

So my group spedrun the ||Karahai|| segment of Season of Ghosts by ||basically drawing all the attention||

Season of Ghosts: ||This is the aggro we pulled and then avoided >_>||

Speaking of which: what are some good items for kineticist/champion who has ABP?

I have 2,000 gold worth of items to pick out

Maybe armor runes ...

[warped orbit]

There's some decent armor property runes

But depends on your level

[rustic cape]

Currently 9

But we might get up to 10 soon since we just did a sequence break

[echo briar]

two different characters, dual class, or multiclass?

[rustic cape]

Kineticist with champion archetype

[echo briar]

do you use a shield?

sturdy shield is boring but always good.

Sun sight is incredible if you don't have a perception bonus already

Echo receptors are amazing if your GM allows them

[rustic cape]

No shield

[turbid dagger]

I've got a very weird question-
Imagine a mech class for Starfinder
What would you want it's like
Martial Gimmick to be
Right now I am envisioning a sort of 'build-a-martial' setup like a Summoner's Eidolon where a lot of your feats directly modify your statistics by increasing reach and size and giving movement speeds
And it's Martial-Compliant Damage Feature is that it can apply Lock-On in various ways and then consume Lock-On on enemies for special activities like strikes that do extra stuff
Sort of like a hybrid of Ranger and Swashbuckler, or as one of my friends said, like Runesmith but the funny effects are separate from the 'rune' itself
But I find myself questioning whether the Lock On mechanic is like........ mech enough, you know
Or if people envision like, overheating and redlining or some other narrative concept as a more Mech-Coded Thing

[surreal basin]

I would personally do some kinda heat system yeah

[turbid dagger]

I'm trying to envision how something like that would play out other than like
Reverse Panache/Kineticist Overflow
Where you do your big thingy then need to chill out to do more big thingies

.......It's telling I went 'Reverse Panache' and not 'Spellstrike'

[surreal basin]

I would say you can do it like uh

So like overcharge on inventor

But you can keep doing it even if you’ve spent it, just for increasing amounts of damage

Self damage I mean

[turbid dagger]

One of said friends also said they envisioned a Kineticist sort of set up for mechs, where you do like uhhhh
Big Spell Like Abilities
So imagine, if you will-
Overheat actions that involve a barrage of missiles, super fast movement, or the like, flashy stuff that overclocks your mech
And they make you enter an overheat state for a bit where you deal like, a scaling amount of extra damage, not a lot, like Thaumaturge's Empowerment or Boost Eidolon, and maybe get some extra boosts dependin on your subclass
So you start off with your big move, then fight more like a typical martial with enhanced strikes until you cool off
Is this anything??

[surreal basin]

Yeah that could be something

[strong sonnet]

my first thought would be some amount of ammo-based stuff honestly
like some sort of short-rest recharging set of prepared spells that can each be used once, or that you need to cycle between as they reload individually

you shoot your missiles and then you're out of missiles and then you switch to guns for a bit

hit the rocket boosters for a short period and then you don't have access to that

not sure if it would be like, one-and-done per fight per system or if it reloads over time

[turbid dagger]

Cycling abilities that recharge is another angle, tho maybe a bit uninteractive?

[balmy orchid]

I am really enjoying Season of Ghosts

[green ruin]

Wizards...

[surreal basin]

Jesus

You should probably grab like…. The legendary arcana feat

[oak pilot]

same here. All the little cultural and social details in Willowshore are so cool

we haven't gotten too far yet but it feels like there's a whole stack of related mysteries going on here

on top of the ones the GM has created with some of the PCs

[rustic cape]

SoG is definitely my favorite of the APs I've played so far

And I hear a lot of consensus on that

[summer whale]

I'm trying very, very hard not to read anything about it that gets posted in here for the reason of "I absolutely want to play it as soon as I can" lol

[rustic cape]

Ye it's a good one to go into blind

[surreal basin]

Yeah it very specifically is vulnerable to being straight up ruined

[rustic cape]

I feel comfortable spoiling that there is a season and that it involves ghosts

[surreal basin]

By spoilers

[summer whale]

There's a non-zero chance we may just switch off of KM after we finish Part 1 and go to another AP if our group isn't enjoying the focus on hexploration, and iirc it would either be SoG or CotCT

although fwiw I'm certainly enjoying the hexploration 😄

[warped orbit]

huge if true

[rustic cape]

It's a funky one because having gotten 5/6 of the way through it blind, I feel I would love to go back and play it again with a different group, but if I had learned the plot differently I think I would not feel that way

[wraith snow]

I'm eager for my Kingmaker game to finish, I've enjoyed it but a lot of the highlights for me have been parts outside of the actual pre-written portions

[green ruin]

her level 20 feat is definitely going to be additional lore 😛
We don't mind because we like having someone who can rk with Lore: This tasty cheese we want to know the name of

(we unfortunately got a thaum and the niche is gone 😭)
I can't relate, charisma casting all the way for me

[turbid dagger]

I think this was one of the primary reasons I wrote off Thaumaturge in Hellbreakers, myself

[green ruin]

You're a lot nicer than our fotrp Thaum
It is actually kinda crazy how a cha class is better at an int action than basically every int class except for one (and int classes need heavy feat investment into it)

[turbid dagger]

As I always say-
THAUM SWEEP

Barbarian damage, all face skills, all RKs,

[green ruin]

Int mfers seething
Damage martials striking at map 10
Bards fumbling influence checks
At the mere sight of the ever based thaum

Did this for my favourite class instead (I know it will never actually win this poll popularity wise)

[turbid dagger]

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Oracle is for real the best caster by a mile imo

It's hard to argue against it being Sorceror But Better

[green ruin]

500 gold and a level up to Yulia

[turbid dagger]

:3

[green ruin]

Only thing it really misses is a way to get by with just focus points
And even then, it still can, it just won't be as good as a psychic or druid doing it

[turbid dagger]

What I did for my Tempest Oracle is take Domain Initiate for Winter Bolt, one of the highest damage focus spells out there, and then take Blessed One for Lay On Hands
So three focus points by level 2,

[wraith snow]

I got a lot of mileage out of Fire Ray on an Oracle as well

Good spell

[turbid dagger]

I've made some good progress on my long-stagnated homebrew project today, very happy 😌
5 monk stances + upgrades and one fighter feat

[warped orbit]

Oh nice

What's the Fighter feat?

And am overview of the stances

[turbid dagger]

Uhhhh so, some context
A big chunk of the homebrew project is two Fighter feats for each weapon group, one that unlocks at 6 if you take Weapon Mastery and another that unlocks at 14 when you take Weapon Legend
As a sort of consolation prize for locking into one weapon group

The Weapon Legend feats were a real speed bump for me and why I went on hiatus

But this one is the Weapon Legend feat for Knives

One Action, Press

Prerequisite: You have chosen Knives as your Weapon Mastery Group.

Requirement: You are wielding a weapon in the Knife Weapon Group.

Once you get into a flow, you can slip extra cuts in with a quick jab or flick of the wrist. An enemy within your melee reach or first range increment of a throwing weapon takes damage equal to your key ability score modifier plus your weapon specialization damage, with a basic Reflex save against your Class DC. On a failure, they are Clumsy 1 until the end of your next turn, or Clumsy 2 on a critical failure. If the target is already Clumsy, you instead increase their Clumsy value by the same amount, to a maximum of Clumsy 4.```

```Secret Technique: Murder (Level 14)
Reaction
Prerequisite: You have chosen Knives as your Weapon Legend Group.
Requirement: You are wielding a weapon in the Knife Weapon Group.
Trigger: A creature you are aware of is reduced to below half its maximum Hit Points.

You are a trained killer, a master of weapons meant for assassination, and when your enemy has one foot in the grave, you are eager to help them the rest of the way. Stride up to half your speed. If you end your movement within reach of the triggering creature, you may Shiv the target, then Strike them with the requisite weapon.

Special: If you have this feat, your killing senses are honed to preternatural levels- you automatically detect if a creature you are aware of is below half its maximum Hit Points.```

[warped orbit]

Oh yeah I remember you doing those

[turbid dagger]

(Also disclaimer these are all Pre Editing)

(I expect a lot will be toned down as I reference other feats of the same level and maybe playtest as much as I can get tables together for it)

[warped orbit]

Those are pretty cool

[turbid dagger]

As for the monk stances, they are all centered around weapons, variously giving life to monk weapons I feel are underutilized or letting non-monk weapons be used by monks
They are-

Demon Stance: A stance for Meteor Hammers, Kusarigama, Sansetsukons, and Three Section Naginatas, that gives them Trip/Grapple/Disarm/Reposition and a Crushing Grab-esque damage tick when doing those

The upgrade is Demon's Rampage, which is a two action metastrike that is Grapple->Whirling Throw with no MAP, while also making Whirling Throw not take a penalty for throwing larger creatures and proning Whirling Throw targets if their movement is stopped by colliding with you

Archon Stance: A defensive stance for Bo Staffs, Naginatas, Nodachis, and Khakkaras that give them Finesse, but lock the strikes you can make to strikes with those weapons and 'archon's sentence' strikes, 1d4 agile finesse parry reach attacks that function similarly to stance unarmed strikes but count as weapon strikes and use your weapon's runes

Upgrade is Archon's Guard, a reaction with the same trigger as Stand Still- Step, activate Parry, Archon's Sentence strike in any order, if you end the step adjacent to the triggering enemy the movement ends

[warped orbit]

Polearm Monk 😌

[turbid dagger]

Turtle Stance: Stance for Spears (the basic d6 simple weapon Spear, which also gets Fatal d10 in this stance to make it a contender), Machetes, and Short Swords + Shield that causes scaling automatic damage of your weapon's type whenever an enemy fails to hit you while your shield's up

Upgrade is Turtle Snap, two actions to Raise Shield and Strike- the target is automatically off guard against the strike because you are hiding your weapon behind your shield, and on hit hesitates when attacking you, taking -2 circ to attacks against you until the start of your next turn

(Fun fact, this is based off Okinawa Kobudo's Tinbe-Rochin weapon system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinbe-rochin)

Hornet Stance: A stance for all the weird low damage dice dual wield monk weapons, gives dual monk weapons Agile and Deadly d4, and if both weapons have d4 damage dice you don't tick MAP in Flurry until it ends, similar to Double Slice
For weapons with a dice larger than d4 you can reduce their die size to d4 to get that benefit + deadly equal to their original weapon dice instead

Upgrade is a Rend equivalent if you land two strikes in a row, d10+strength that scales to 2d10 then 3d10

[warped orbit]

Ooh, that's also neat

[turbid dagger]

And lastly, Swallow Stance, which is based off a 1e subclass and uses Katanas, Whipstaves (with the understanding that they are based off the japanese Jo, which uses a lot of sword-like techniques) and Elven Curve Blades
While in the stance you can Feint with Performance and can Step twice before or after Feinting
The upgrade is an extremely self indulgent 'do a big Iaijutsu slash' where by default you one action Feint+Strike, BUT if you have One Inch Punch you can instead two action Feint + One Inch Punch or three action Feint + Three Action One Inch Punch

I wanted one of the stances to really like One Inch Punch because that's an odd underused piece of the monk kit

[warped orbit]

It is yeah

[turbid dagger]

My current to-do list, minus Knives
Reaver is an idea for a homebrew class that my brain keeps wanting to fold into this whole thing but I think it's best if I focus on finishing all of this and editing it before I take on an entire class

[warped orbit]

Classes are pretty hard

What's the idea for the Reaver if I can ask?

[turbid dagger]

Basically, they are a Class DC martial
They have access to Combo actions, special abilities that usually force saves and can only be used once per round
The first time you use a Combo action in an encounter, you perform an Opener effect, the second time you perform a Follow-through, and the third time you use a very powerful Closer, before cycling back to Opener
Some example combo actions-

Your flowing strikes pummel your opponent, wearing them down before you blow them away.

Opener- Pommel Strike (one-action)
A creature within your reach takes Bludgeoning Damage equal to your Strength ability modifier, with a basic Fortitude save against your Class DC. On a Failure, they are Off-Guard to you until the end of your next turn, and take a -2 circumstance penalty to Fortitude and Reflex saves for the same duration. On a Critical Failure, they also fall Prone.

Follow-through- Open The Gap (one-action)
You make a melee Strike. Against an Off-Guard target, this attack does not take a Multiple Attack Penalty.

Knockout- Crushing Blow (two-actions, incapacitation)
A creature within your reach must make a Reflex save against your Class DC with the following effects. If the creature was Prone, any critical success on their save becomes a success instead, and any failure on their save becomes a critical failure instead.

Critical Success- The creature takes no damage.
Success- The creature takes damage equal to half your Strike damage with an attack of your choice, and is Sickened 1.
Failure- As success, but the creature takes full damage, and is Sickened 2 and Stunned 1.
Critical Failure- As failure, but the creature takes double damage, and the creature is Sickened 2 and Stunned 3.```

Requirement: You must be wielding a Slashing or Piercing Melee Weapon, or a Slashing or Piercing Unarmed Attack.
Your blade paints the streets of your domain a brilliant crimson- a warning sign for every enemy to come, writ with every enemy that already has. 

Opener- Make Chase (one-action)
You position the required weapon or unarmed attack defensively, gaining a +2 Circumstance Bonus to AC until the start of your next turn. You then Stride. 

Follow-through- Nail Down (one-action)
An adjacent creature takes piercing or slashing damage equal to your Strength ability modifier, with a basic Reflex Save against your Class DC. On a failure, they are Immobilized until they Escape against your Class DC, pinned down by a small blade you had hidden away.

Knockout- Carve Open (one-action)
Requirement: Your prior action this turn was a successful strike with the requisite weapon or unarmed attack.
You Strike twice at the same target. These attacks neither suffer from nor contribute to your Multiple Attack Penalty. Each of these Strikes do half the weapon's total damage as Persistent Bleed Damage, instead of their usual damage. Persistent Bleed from Carve Open stacks with itself and any existing Persistent Bleed the target may have (such as from a wounding rune).```

[warped orbit]

I see

[turbid dagger]

You can go from any Opener to any Follow-through to any Finisher, you aren't locked into one combo
So you could go Pommel Strike-> Nail Down->Crushing Blow if you wanted too

The basic mechanical idea was 'martial with hex cantrips'
Something special you can fit into your turn after doing your Strikes

As I said, I realllllly need to get this Done before I do Reaver, because making combos will be a lot of time and effort 💀

[warped orbit]

Very valid yeah

This is a very neat concept though

[turbid dagger]

Mhm!
They're, funnily enough, narratively filling a very niche space that I've always really liked
'lightly armored character with big two hander'
Also a good fit for 'ronin with robes and katana'
I'm sort of inspired by D&D 4e's Avenger in that respect, though that's about where the similarities end
They get light armor prof only, but also a special feature where they use their Strength instead of Dexterity for AC

My mission statement for Reaver is basically, like
If Barbarian is a berzerker, Champion is a knight, and Fighter is a soldier, Reaver is like
A bandit chief or gang leader
They play dirty, but in a flashier, more upfront way than Rogues
Their subclasses are Advantages, tricks they use to overcome the opposition

[warped orbit]

That's neat yeah

I do also very much like the Avenger 2h and light armor thing

[turbid dagger]

I've already got the Iconic in my mind :3
A catfolk ex-bandit from Valash Raj with a Falchion made out of a carved dinosaur bone and a personal grudge against the Kaiju Kawuk, who's taken to adventuring and monster hunting to fight more and more dangerous opponents until they can challenge the immortal force of nature itself
Anyhow, I will stop rambling
If I overexploit this surge of hyperfixation I will burn out and not want to touch this project again for many months 😔

[warped orbit]

Nice

[warped orbit]

And that's very fair

Get some work done on the other stuff for now

I am very interested in all of this though

[turbid dagger]

Thank youuuu, seein people interested in it is always a great help for my desire to push on
I will try and post updates here as well as the personal server where most of my work is going on!

[green ruin]

I've been using about 3/fight in our level 18 campaign till the gm made us fight fire elementals 😱
(Except they had terrible reflex and cold weakness so I eclipse bursted for 3 morbillion damage)

[warped orbit]

Lmao

[green ruin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/703473156161273856/1487805446008864808/image.png?ex=69cb230c&is=69c9d18c&hm=832516c9a3eebd1f8ff33f3c9c6bd096c406109a06efc547f815fc248d68b943&

[sudden lark]

Is there a dedication that gives you an animal companion?

Asking

For a potential game I'm thinking of running.

[green ruin]

Beast master

[wraith snow]

Beastmaster, Cavalier (mount specific), there are also ones that give you a non-animal companion like Clockwork Reanimator

[finite sequoia]

Drake Warden as well I believe

Gives you a dragon to take care of

[sudden lark]

Ok

That is specifically what I was looking for. Thanks!

[balmy orchid]

Decided I will someday play a Great Grey Wolf Sif Build

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1433

based on this shit

[novel merlin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/OugN5nnBm6

Hype

[turbid dagger]

April Fools,

[errant roost]

I'm already theorycrafting a swarmkeeper ||Ten Million Bees||

[wraith snow]

I was looking at them too, just unfortunately not a lot of mechanical synergy with what I wanted to do with it

[errant roost]

I dunno, I think getting ||ten million actions|| every turn would help with swarmkeeper's action economy

[balmy orchid]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/213821502510989312/1489336534103621662/voy.png?ex=69d00c3c&is=69cebabc&hm=0f9f144ee676163b0c068124b7de1578411ec9dc26552379841872b269a3c505&

MY BOY HAS ART NOW

[frank crystal]

YOOO THATS SICK

[desert vale]

spooky

[warped orbit]

Suddenly having the urge to build an awakened fox character (for obvious reasons)
Pondering what class would work well for that

Maybe Clawdancer Rogue

[errant roost]

investigator. fox in a deerstalker cap, w/pipe

[balmy orchid]

Beastmaster Ranger

Animal companion: fox

[warped orbit]

also good suggestions

[steel blade]

Of Mice & Murder mentioned

[errant roost]

Oh, no, I just thought it was a cute image

Little animal in a big hat

[steel blade]

Ah. OM&M had a fox detective who was very much a play on Sherlock Holmes

Like, he had his own Moriarty and Reichenbach Falls and everything

[balmy orchid]

Dog I am fucking getting obliterated in Season of Ghosts

I'm at Frightened THREE man

[warped orbit]

Spooked

[balmy orchid]

I only succeeded one roll the whole session :c

[surreal basin]

What level are u

[balmy orchid]

1

It's because I was rolling everything with a -3 penalty the entire session

[warped orbit]

Frightened for that long?

[balmy orchid]

Ya

[surreal basin]

How?

Frightened….. goes down

Every round

[rustic cape]

I have a vaaaaague recollection that there's ||an environmental effect|| at some point in early SoG that can cause an unusually persistent frightened?

[green ruin]

You were making sure to reduce frightened, right?...

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I believe it's a Map Effect

[green ruin]

They call this AP easy?

[rustic cape]

Do they?

SoG hasn’t ever struck me as particularly easy or hard

[oak pilot]

I've heard it's easy yeah

so far, among the bossfight and 3 encounters we've had, only 1 encounter resulted in a downing and it still wasn't a close fight

[errant roost]

Just as the prophecy foretold: 3 scary 5 me

[echo briar]

From a GM perspective, most encounters are low difficulty, many moderate encounters have very clear ways to avoid them diplomatically, and I can’t think of any severe encounters in the whole book.

There’s even some trivial encounters that I truly do not understand the purpose of.

[warped orbit]

Trivial encounters are for having fun dunking on enemies

[echo briar]

That’s what low encounters are for.

Trivial encounters just seem like time wasters.

Or the actual reason I learned when I asked one of the writers: for groups who use XP, so the level up when they’re supposed to.

[silver geyser]

Correct, because some people do indeed use XP.

[green ruin]

I've got a risks and rewards playtest this Tuesday, excited to see the new classes in action, and also crossing off a class from my bucket list (psychic)
Although I am a bit worried about the slayer, they plan to use chymist vials and cleric archetype to focus on aoe damage and support spells
The main thing is just that chymist vials deal cantrip damage on activation, it's rough compared to striking

[warped orbit]

Hmm, yeah I have a feeling they might be disappointed there

[green ruin]

Although, I suppose it will make good feedback for vials if it doesn't work out well
They ought to deal more damage than a cantrip that can be selected as an ancestry feat

[warped orbit]

Paizo values resourceless AoE a lot

So I don't see it happen

[turbid dagger]

Mhm, play testing the on paper bad options is more useful than the on paper good obes

[surreal basin]

SoG is mostly very low encounters

it is not crazy hard

[green ruin]

Depending on who you talk to, the classes as a whole are the on paper bad options

[turbid dagger]

Well, those people ought to go in the crystal

[green ruin]

... The crystal?

[turbid dagger]

https://youtu.be/o3FVB5cOy8M?si=t0-KiyiD6iOXrjW2

There we go

[green ruin]

There are a lot of crystal worthy takes going around on these classes in general

[warped orbit]

Slayer is okay I think

if you take the weapon

but Daredevil is very meh yeah

[green ruin]

In any case, regardless of how the playtesters turn out, I'm excited to finally try out psychic for myself
Also seeing a melee Gunslinger in action for the first time, being played by a persistent complainer about the class (EXCEPT the melee ones for some reason)

[green ruin]

Mail is also pretty strong

The subclass design isn't the greatest, there's two good options, one mid option, and one useless option

[warped orbit]

oh damn, looking at the reddit right now
among the new Hellknight stuff, Order of the Chain apparently get Slamdown for Grapple

but it also upgrades a success to a crit success on the followup Grapple

at level 8

Lesser Benefit - Shackles of Law (flourish, 2 actions)

You attempt to subdue a target with an attack and a follow‐up grab. Make a melee Strike. If it hits and deals damage, you can attempt an Athletics check to Grapple the creature you hit. If you’re wielding a flail or spiked chain, you can ignore Grapple’s requirement that you have a hand free, and if you succeed at the Athletics check, you get a critical success instead. Both attacks count toward your multiple attack penalty, but the penalty doesn’t increase until after you’ve made both of them.

then at 12 they get this

Greater Benefit—Sturdy Bindings

Your grapples are incredibly reliable. When you roll a critical failure on a check to Grapple a target, you get a failure instead. In addition, when a creature you have grabbed rolls a failure on its check to Escape, it gets a critical failure instead, and if it rolls a critical success, it gets a success instead.

[green ruin]

They did pre remaster
But without the success upgrading
And it was still good
Why paizo

[warped orbit]

had to make an even better Pin to the Spot 😛

well, not strictly better

but also six levels earlier

[green ruin]

It's worse but also has the huge advantage of being likely to be allowed

[warped orbit]

Spiked Chain is also not bad as a weapon
would have preferred a meteor hammer for reach, but it's workable

[green ruin]

Wait that's actually huge
Every grappler is gonna wanna be a hellkn*ght 🤢

[warped orbit]

You can be a deserter 😛

Order of the Scar also gets the same benefits apparently

[green ruin]

You need to take the hellknight initiation ritual to use the arch don't you?

[turbid dagger]

I honestly don't get this
A lot of the stunts are not worth taking but that's a feat thing more than a chassis thing
Chassis wise I think the only change needed is an armor rejiggering and maybe a 10 HP bump
Daring Stunt is like
Flurry Of Blows but way better

[turbid dagger]

There are options in the archetype of being a Hellknight Errant

[turbid dagger]

Daring Stunt into Combat Grab.......
They're Fucked

[green ruin]

Can't get the chain benefits though can you?

[turbid dagger]

The Order Training feat does not have Preferment as a prereq, so I believe an Errant would be able too?

You still 'belong' to an order for the purpose of feats as an Errant I believe? Unless I am blind

[green ruin]

You might be, immersing yourself in the character and all that /j

I still haven't checked the arch on pb yet, and it's not on AON, so idk yet

[wary yoke]

When you Escape from being swallowed whole, is there any rules saying what square you pop out around the creature?

I couldn't find anything, so I'm saying that it's the players choice

And since there aren't, y'know, facing rules of any kind

[balmy orchid]

Season of Ghosts question

how are there locked doors

[turbid dagger]

how do you mean,

[balmy orchid]

We're in a relatively rural and poor village, all the doors should be rice paper shouldn't they?

How do you lock that

[turbid dagger]

As far as I know they just use normal old wooden doors, not shoji or anything like that?
Tian Xia is a blend of a lot of things but typically more chinese than japanese

[rustic cape]

Poor rural people in China and Japan made their houses out of wood and/or earth like in the rest of the world

Rice paper requires expensive processing, whereas wood you can find sticking out of the ground

[sudden lark]

Yep!

[warped orbit]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1sd94tn/please_say_hi_to_the_goodest_of_boys_jackal_my/

I always forget Hunter Automaton are often quadrupedal

it's so based

[steel blade]

bloodrager
lacks blood
my only qualm

[errant roost]

You'd be angry, too, if you didn't have any blood

[chrome harbor]

Because it just became shockingly relevant

what is going on in Golarion that Hatchets are martial weapons?

[rustic cape]

Axes have been martial weapons in D&Dlikes for a long time

[chrome harbor]

Battleaxes, sure, but like... a hatchet is literally just a tool

[rustic cape]

Using a hatchet as a tool and using it as a weapon are two different things though

There's nothing that says you need martial weapon proficiency to chop wood

And if we really want to get into realism (which we shouldn't), waraxes of any size are very different from work-axes

[oak pilot]

has to go get some from someone else, preferably the enemy

[steel blade]

similar enough that axes were more commonly used by conscripts/militia than daggers or morningstars afaik

and yet a hatchet is martial while daggers, which are bigger than knives, and morningstars, which what peasant is gonna have easy access to one of those, are both simple

[rustic cape]

Proficiencies are an abstraction for PC classes

[surreal basin]

Okay also

To be fair

Hatchets are the throwing axes i think

Which is a martially minded thing

They definitely should be simple tho

Wait are there any simple axes at all

[chrome harbor]

Yes, and axes (as a weapon group a glass might specialize in) featuring several tools, distinct from the battleaxes or war axes, yet being the only weapon group that does not have a simple weapon (even though the same class might have specific features around simple weapons) is

not great

[chrome harbor]

nope

[surreal basin]

Okay yeah thfays weird

[chrome harbor]

the hand adze (a thing that cannot be thrown and is exclusively a wood carving tool)?
Martial weapon

[surreal basin]

*thats even

Yeah idk just an oversight i guess

I mean outside of a couple scenarios its kinda irrelevant at least

[rustic cape]

Axes are for warriors, aesthetically 🤷

[surreal basin]

Anyone who wants to use weapons will have martial weapon prof outside of edge cases

Tbh i kinda think weapon proficiency is outdated just in general

Idk what you could do to simple weapons to make them worth choosing but

Oh hey hatchets actually are pretty good

Agile sweep kinda rules

[chrome harbor]

I mean I'm playing an Exemplar from the country side, explicitly pre-campaign, and thought it'd be neat to have her start out with a weapon that a farm girl might actually have, and obviously picked the one tool that would be every sane person's go to for weaponizing in an emergency because it is so incredibly simple to use, compared to virtually anything other than a spear

-# that's why I'm mad about it :v

[rustic cape]

Okay but you're an exemplar, you have martial proficiency

[chrome harbor]

Yes, and I wanted to have a cool moment of a farm tool being emboldened by divine power, you know, the thing Exemplars specifically have a class feature about

[balmy orchid]

I think the point is that simple weapons are kinda just bad and there's no reason to pick them willingly outside of flavor

[rustic cape]

It can still be a farm tool emboldened by divine power

[chrome harbor]

I mean, no, because Humble Strieks specifically does not work with martial weapons

[rustic cape]

... I guess I don't see the problem, since the only thing humble strikes does is bring a simple weapon closer to being on par with a martial one

The only thing that has happened is that you have skipped a step, mechanically

It's still an ikon, no?

[chrome harbor]

My point isn't that this is game breaking or a balance issue (or good)

my point is: behold, a humble peasant weapon, easy to use, easy to wield

behold, the weapon of a true swordmaster

is dumb

[rustic cape]

I'd be much more afraid of someone who could do serious harm to my person with the latter than the former, really

[chrome harbor]

Yes, which is why it's neat that there are theoretically ways to build that elevate the simple weapons
except when those ways don't work, because the weapon classifications where written by the same expert medievalist that wrote the mass combat rules in 1e Wotr :p

[warped orbit]

Humble Strikes is kind of a non feature in a lot of cases

As is Deadly Simplicity in general

There's a few cases where you can get an extra trait out of it, but it mostly just doesn't super matter

But simple weapons in general don't really serve much of a purpose in the game now

Since anyone who cares about using a weapon has martial prof anyway

[rustic cape]

I mean I can't really reasonably tell you that you shouldn't be annoyed on aesthetic grounds, but I'm just sort of dazed because this isn't even the game preventing you from playing your concept, your concept is fully enabled

[chrome harbor]

I mean I didn't say it was - I'm saying "if I encounter a water spell that sets things on fire for no explained reason, I am going to call that out, regardless of how mechanically efficient the spell is"

[silver geyser]

That's not really the equivalent here.

[balmy orchid]

I do think its weird that we still use feats for weapon proficiency

[warped orbit]

There's just a few weapon groups that are martial only, and axes are one of them

[balmy orchid]

That seems like a really big opportunity cost

[surreal basin]

Unrelated and very stupid thing here

[warped orbit]

Wdym?

[surreal basin]

Making a thaum

And i was like

Hmm

Being able to attack from both range and melee would be nice but boy thaum only has one hand

Introducing my new combo weapon

I put a bayonet on a hand crossbow

[warped orbit]

Throwing also works

[surreal basin]

This is better than a normal combo weapon in every way

[warped orbit]

Yeah bayonet/reinforced stock is good

Just remember to get some Blazons to share runes

[rustic cape]

Definitely, it's almost never worth it

Or, well, it can be with ancestry feats or feats that do other stuff too sometimes

But it's definitely a sacred chao

[balmy orchid]

It feels like feats open the door to so many game changing means of engaging with the game but they also cost as much as "use a sword"

[warped orbit]

Oh like that

[balmy orchid]

Especially when downtime is a mechanic idk why you can't just

[warped orbit]

Well weapon prof is a general feat

[balmy orchid]

Gain profincencies over time

[warped orbit]

And also as gk said, not actually very good for the majority of characters

[balmy orchid]

Yes

Thats my problem

Theres almost always a better option for your limited feat slots

[rustic cape]

As Emily mentioned, weapon proficiency is kinda a weird thing in PF2e

It feels slightly out-of-place

[warped orbit]

I'm mostly fine with the prof feats

[surreal basin]

Tbh downtime is an EXTREMELY underused mechanic

[warped orbit]

Armor prof at least has some application

[surreal basin]

Like

90% of downtime options in the game are

Either a secret kind of earn income

Or retraining

[rustic cape]

Bespoke weapons are probably a good thing for the system more generally, but there could probably stand to be fewer of them and simple/martial/advanced could probably be safely compressed into one thing with a bit of system rejiggering

[warped orbit]

I still don't really get what Paizo sees advanced weapons as

[chrome harbor]

"Gary Gygax polearm collection we're no longer allowed to call exotic"

[surreal basin]

So the idea

Is that they are stronger than usual weapons, but you have to spend character options to use them

[warped orbit]

Yeah obviously they're exotic weapons, but I mean in terms of their mechanical niche

[warped orbit]

Except that the majority of them aren't actually meaningfully better than martial options

[surreal basin]

They just… uh…. Forgot to make the character option

It feels like

[warped orbit]

And then there's also so few ways to access them anyway

[surreal basin]

Okay so the problem there is paizo’s weapon balance

So basically every trait and thing about a weapon has a number tied to it

That adds up to a score that determines its proficiency

[warped orbit]

I mean yeah I get it conceptually

But a bunch of them just suck

There's a lot of advanced weapons that have too many traits and no die size

And then there's a few that are just better martial weapons, but with a trait you just don't care for added

And then a very rare few that are actually good enough you'd want to go out of your way to get them

[surreal basin]

Nodachi my beloved

[warped orbit]

RIP flickmace

[surreal basin]

Flickmace was such a white room problem lmao

[warped orbit]

It wasn't even a problem

It was just a good weapon

[surreal basin]

It was only a problem because theres not what there should be

A general feat to make 1 advanced weapon be treated as martial for you

[balmy orchid]

I believe that is a thing

[surreal basin]

Instead you HAD to be raised by gnomes or a gnome

To use it

[warped orbit]

Only for humans

[balmy orchid]

Oh right

[surreal basin]

And only for racial weapons

Both of which are stupid as hell qualifiers

[warped orbit]

Uncommon and/or ancestry traited or culturally important

[balmy orchid]

Though question

Actually

Season of ghost has this disclaimer

https://i.imgur.com/eLEJGBl.png

Does this mean anyone can use them?

[warped orbit]

Yes

[rustic cape]

It means you don't need to ask your GM if you can buy them or whatever

[warped orbit]

You treat them as common for the purposes of the campaign

[balmy orchid]

But can I use them

Is my question

[rustic cape]

Not without proficiency, no

[warped orbit]

Only if you usually have proficiency

[rustic cape]

It doesn't grant the proficiency for free

[balmy orchid]

Gosh darn it

[rustic cape]

It's just making them common

[balmy orchid]

Thhhhbt

[surreal basin]

Everyone having tengu gale blades would be really funny admittedly

Common uncommon rare is such a funny system lmao

[balmy orchid]

Man its just like

[surreal basin]

Its not…. Bad per say

[rustic cape]

Hot take: weapons shouldn't even have inherent simple/martial/advanced characteristics, you should just increase the damage die size of whatever weapon you use for having martial or advanced proficiency

[surreal basin]

But it is a little silly sometimes

[balmy orchid]

What cool weapon can a summoner even get

[warped orbit]

not much

[balmy orchid]

I'm using dang hedge clippers

[rustic cape]

Summoners really aren't a fighty class

[surreal basin]

Are you aware that you and your eidolon share MAP

[warped orbit]

you got your eidolon to punch things

[balmy orchid]

I dont wanna be fighty I wanna look cool!

[surreal basin]

I mean you CAN just

Hold it

And not use a martial weapon

[rustic cape]

Yeah just have a sword

[surreal basin]

Just hold on

:p

[balmy orchid]

AURA LOSS

[surreal basin]

NO ONE WILL KNOW

[balmy orchid]

Fie!!!!!

[warped orbit]

I think the rarity system is kinda damaged by being confused on what it's actually supposed to be for

[rustic cape]

"I'm a samurai, these are my family swords"
"Can you use them"
"shhhhhhhhhh"

[surreal basin]

Oh absolutely

Its super unclear if rarity is for mechanical or flavor reasons

[rustic cape]

It seems to be both or either depending on the time of day and the weather

[warped orbit]

since we kinda have three different kinds of rarity tags

• this is from a particular region in universe, and/or just lore wise more rare
• this is from an AP, so we're just gonna tag it all uncommon
• this is an option that can potentially cause issues for the game, so we're taggin it uncommon/rare to give the GM more options to filter out things that would give them trouble

[surreal basin]

The middle one pisses me off ngl

[warped orbit]

I personally just largely ignore rarity tbh

[surreal basin]

Oh same

I just make players ask me if its okay to use rare stuff cause sometimes rare stuff is fucking summoning an adamantine golem

[warped orbit]

rare I will probably at least take a look, yeah

but uncommon I pretty much just blanket don't care

the one case I think rare is kinda justified is the rare backgrounds, and even those are mostly just something to talk about with your players/GM

[surreal basin]

Yeag

Oh also

My homebrew summoming rules have turned out pretty fuckin good! Even at high levels summoning dragons it hasnt been like

Any more disruptive than like, other equivalent spell slots

[warped orbit]

what's the rules?

[surreal basin]

Summon Levels:
lvl 1 - CR 0
lvl 2 - CR 2
lvl 3 - CR 4
lvl 4 - CR 6
lvl 5 - CR 8
lvl 6 - CR 10
lvl 7 - CR 12
lvl 8 - CR 14
lvl 9 - CR 16
lvl 10 - CR 18

This altered table

For what can be summoned

[warped orbit]

so that summons are always -1/-2 PL, I see

[surreal basin]

Yep!

Highest level spell slot equals pl -1 or 2

And yeah despite being a little scary in theory its been pretty good

[fossil dome]

Hey

Throwing it out there, but

Anybody interested in a PF2 Kingmaker PbP?

[tight flare]

Any suggestions for good 1st level spells on a magus?

unfurling cloth magus

I've mainly used spell strike with cantrips so far, so my current levelled spells are jump and fleet for mobility

But I should probably expand that selection xD

[wraith snow]

Horizon Thunder Sphere if you want something to use for spell strike but honestly can get away with only ever using Gouging Claw

[warped orbit]

HTS isn't the best, since you can only use the two action version IIRC

[wraith snow]

It's not great, yeah. It is, however, the best remaining option in terms of raw damage at that level.

It's the only spell without a save with a higher average than Gouging Claw on the Arcane list

Plus you can do the 3 action version without spellstriking if you really need it

Briny Bolt is maybe an option but it's not amazing, Admonishing Ray lets you non-lethal your spell strike without taking the penalty which depending on campaign could matter

Snowball if you want to stick to people better

Ah, sorry: Hydraulic Push does the same damage as HTS, so it depends if you value the push on hit or the dazzle on crit more

[tight flare]

Interesting yeah. I'll look into HP

Mainly I'm looking for utility spells

HTS is badass though

[turbid dagger]

The push WOULD eat enemy actions in addition to spellstrike damae so tats pretty rock solid

[warped orbit]

Briny Bolt is blind and dazzled, I'd consider that more useful than the tiny damae increase of HTS

althouh I guess Briny Bolt has that dumbass formatting error that doesn't technically make crits fully scale
but I would ignore that

[wraith snow]

True but unless you crit it's just slightly worse damage than just cantriping

[warped orbit]

I mean HTS is also only 1d6 more damage

[wraith snow]

True, I value having the option of the 3 action cast though, even if you're unlikely to use it often

But notably the 1d6 damage is the only thing that it has over just continuing to use cantrips

Well, that and the on-crit

Realistically it's probably for the best to continue using the spell slots for utility imo bc the current roster of attack roll spells largely compare poorly to Gouging Claw But Again

[warped orbit]

yeah

you mostly just wanna Spellstrike with cantrips and focus spells

[tight flare]

Any suggestions for utility spells at lower levels?

[wraith snow]

500 Toads

Endure is 1 action and is nice damage mitigation, Grease is eternal even if slightly toned down in this system, Friendfetch is great, Overselling Flourish is nice bc it doesn't eat into action economy

at low levels Runic Weapon is really nice bc it effectively lets you cut ahead on weapon progression for a short time

Depending on your build Threefold Limb

[tight flare]

Ah endure seems pretty good

[warped orbit]

Magic Weapon is absolutely busted at level 1

And then still remains great until level 4 when you get Striking

After that it falls off

[desert vale]

Askafroa as dryad of an ash tree. Also a jerk

[wraith snow]

I kind of want to try a summoner but I have no idea how to actually build one that functions

[tight flare]

They were amazing in PF1, don't know how good they are in 2E

[wraith snow]

The Synthesist style of build in particular is pretty bad compared to 1e, other than that I'd mostly just call it very different

[warped orbit]

it's not that complicated tbh

a lot of it is just choosing a good eidolon type mostly

Beast, Plant, and Dragon are mostly relatively straightforwardly good ones

[wraith snow]

I was looking at Psychopomp just bc I wanted Divine access but I don't have a real character concept in mind rn

[warped orbit]

otherwise the common bread and butter turn for Summoner looks something like
Tandem Movement to Stride both of you into place, 2a Cast a Spell with Summoner, Eidolon uses action from Act Together to Strike

with some variation, since some eidolons also have good 2a activities

and generally Summoner is basically being half a caster and 3/4 of a martial stapled together

neither half is quite as good as a full class, but you get both

[tight flare]

Anyone here used starlit sentinel archetype?

It seems kinda fun

[warped orbit]

I have not, but it seems good yeah

the only slight issue is you only get to transform once per hour

so it won't be up for every fight

[tight flare]

Yeah a nd the action cost is a bit annoying as a magus

[green ruin]

briny bolt if GM allows

[tight flare]

Oh that's not bad at all

How do people who play on foundry keep track of spell strike activations?
I try and keep track of it in my head, but it'd be nice if there was a way for foundry to track it for me

[echo briar]

Shocking grasp.

If the GM is allowing pre remaster classes (magus) they should allow the pre remaster spells the class was designed around.

[wraith snow]

Kingmaker should be ending this week, I'm excited for the homebrew game set to come after

Set in the GM's custom world and not Golarion so that'll be neat, though from what he's said the goal is still very much elfgame pastiche

Party so far has an unarmed fighter (me), a bloodrager, an imperial sorc, and a monk built around the kitsune fox fire attack

[tight flare]

How has shocking grasp changed?

[warped orbit]

it didn't get remastered

[echo briar]

It has a new name, has a range, and is a save

[warped orbit]

Thunderstrike is the replacement

[tight flare]

Ah right

[green ruin]

daredevil is feeling really good in our one shot
slayer... not as much

[surreal basin]

Wow really??

[clever cobalt]

Slayer does seem a bit undertuned

What was your experience like?

[green ruin]

Our slayer went for a chymist vials build with cleric archetype and spell slates
Those worked pretty well, they added some nice buffs and debuffs (although in a longer session they'd have run out real quick)
We found that chymist breath is bad very quickly though, she was using 2actions on it regularly to not deal meaningful damage
It's like slayer has only 2 real subclasses
Furthermore, on the hunt really wasn't triggering reliably, and even when it did, the class lacks the ability to really make great use of its action economy
The other classes with effective four action economy, summoner and monk, have plenty to push that capability to the fullest

Imo chymist should scale at d4 per level to bring it on par with things like earth's bile in terms of per action damage

The daredevil had strong athletics actions, was able to sling out a ton of manoeuvres and strikes with riders per turn thanks to their action econ, and had excellent mobility thanks to that action economy

[finite sequoia]

Scurred

[dry flare]

Any EU timezone pathfinder 2e groups out there looking dor a player?

I was gonna get to play this dragon scrunglet in one, but GM had to cancel the game cus health reasons. And I glt really attached to my silly thing 8w8

[true delta]

Perhaps, you could add Nightshade to your works before posting them to poison generative AIs.

[dry flare]

Im aware. But my pc takes 30 mins to cook nightshade on lowest settings. And when i posted this I just wanted to show it and didnt wanna wait 30 mins

[crystal walrus]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-bundle-at-center-world-paizo-inc-books

[rapid wagon]

i keep forgetting yalls advice, but if you wanted to play a wandering samurai type character with the whole movie esque sword draw OHKO kinda vibe, rogue would be the way to go?

[warped orbit]

hmmm

mechanically, that would probably be closest to Magus

Rogue could also work, but their weapon selection is somewhat limited for that

[turbid dagger]

Slayer is a pretty cool Katana User nowadays, your main issue is that Katanas and light/no armor doesn't mix

The weird thing with 2e's katana is that the classes that want to use it and the classes that want to use a greataxe are nearly a circle as a venn diagram and that's not usually how things shake out

[warped orbit]

yeah

[rapid wagon]

you could probably get away with being a little inefficient in the weapon choice arena no?

[turbid dagger]

Oh tat's not how I mean
Katana is perfectly viable for a str two hand character

It's just most people want like,
A cool unarmored guy and not a samurai

[rapid wagon]

ohhh ok

[errant roost]

huh, and here I thought it was illegal not to give katanas a Finesse equivalent

[warped orbit]

yeah in PF2 the katana is a bastard sword with Deadly but a lower die size

[turbid dagger]

Anyway-
If you go 2 dex and take hide armor most str martials can work, you just likely have more of a Mitsurugi type guy on your hands

[rustic cape]

Legacy of 3e re: katanas not being finesse

[chrome harbor]

The andoran government does not want you to know this, but an elven curved blade is just a katana if you say it is

[rapid wagon]

I guess tbf, they're no more finesse than a longsword is

katanas i mean

which is to say in all honesty, they're both finesse weapons

but thats a different conversation

[wraith snow]

Kingmaker done at session 97

About 2 and 2/3rds years

[dense temple]

Saw this a bit ago, and since it seems to be primarily modules I was wondering if anyone had experience with the ones in it?

[fossil dome]

Any suggestions for someone about to start running it?

[balmy orchid]

Funniest thing in Season of Ghosts btw

When we got to each shrine ||to get our coins blessed|| our Cleric managed to crit every single roll

Which resulted in us making a running gag that she gets dapped up by the gods on sight every time

[wraith snow]

In no particular order
-We decided to stop the kingdom rules part way through, only 1-2 players enjoyed them and trying to derive narratives from them was generally less enjoyable than running the kingdom entirely in narrative space. Obviously this will vary by group.
-It's probably a good idea to communicate to players early that hex-crawling will make up a significant portion of the experience, the players are ultimately still going to be very hands-on problem solvers
-A lot of the boss encounters run RAW have the potential to be very swingy experiences, our party almost TPK'd several times, obviously it's good to have a challenge but it's worth keeping in mind that situations might get extremely dire and you'll have to work to provide a way to work around them
-There's A LOT of content in the book, and the companion guide adds much more. If you go based on XP rather than milestone progression, the party will end up having done a lot of relatively unimportant content by the end. I strongly recommend thinking about either reworking existing content around PC plothooks or even using parts of the map to set original player-specific content in
-||I've seen it suggested that GMs should reveal more about the circumstances behind Nyrissa and the Stolen Lands early and idk if I agree with that advice. It mirrors the video game's narrative more closely that way but I found the story progression RAW made sense||

Spoilers are relatively minor (name of important character with little context) but I know someone in here is currently playing in it so I wanted to play it safe

[dry flare]

swashbuckler with Gymnast and then there's a few feats that is all about flashy draws

and then use a dueling sword

if ur GM is cool you can agree its a katana. Who cares =w=/

another thing about Swashbuckler I love it that nunchucks is a finesse weapon. Which means you could play ~~everyones ~~ my favourite elvis/bruce lee/pirate guy

https://tenor.com/view/soulcalibur-soul-calibur-sc2-maxi-gif-12989489166061131969

hey, anyone of yall know why this pops up whenever I try to check out the Battlezoo shop? I was thinking of getting the dragon book but I cant even get past this thing : s

like what license? Im not trying to log in or anything

and I dont know what support to contact, nothing on the page is interactable

[green ruin]

Fuck magic immune monsters man
We're fighting 4 enemies, each of which have an at will reaction to counteract any spell they see being cast
It's not like Wisps, where we can at least buff the martials 😭

[dense temple]

Are you fighting a pod of Cedh players?

[rustic cape]

||Strength of Thousands?||

[green ruin]

nope, ||FOTRP||

[rustic cape]

Ah, with the ||ants in Strength of Thousands|| the trick is, weirdly, to get distance, since the reactions have more limited range than most spells do

[solar storm]

We had such a good plan for this combat until it turned out many of the enemies can fly haha

[carmine oyster]

This is what happens when our Mycokineticist gets bored while the squad uses a one-hour ritual

[rustic cape]

Seems about right

[green ruin]

I've asked this to every PF space I'm in: What's y'all's favourite iconic character?

[wraith snow]

I don't know that much about most of them beyond aesthetics tbh. Seelah probably wins by default.

[steel blade]

of the core class iconics/ones that have been around since 1e, Ezren
of the newer ones for 2e, Thaleon

[green ruin]

Seltyiel all the way for me

[finite sequoia]

Seltyiel has a cool as fuck aesthetic. Obozaya is dope

[rapid wagon]

Hmm, I saw that the swash has a draw attack, but there's not really any way to sauce it up beyond comboing with a finisher right?

[warped orbit]

Quick Draw is a common feat on several classes, but it doesn't combine with anything due to being a specific action

[rapid wagon]

Oh I just meant their like bravado draw

[mortal temple]

oopsie daisy, fumbled trying to save the tapestry of fate

[frank crystal]

Chat, mechanically incubi are identical to succubi yah?

[turbid dagger]

So, bizarrely,

The succubus statblock says this, but

Incubi do not have 2e stats

[frank crystal]

Huh

Yah they don’t

I guess they didn’t see the need to print another statblock that’s the succubus but masculine

[turbid dagger]

I don't think anyone would faint dead away if you used succubus but male for incubus

[frank crystal]

Lore wise their gender presentation is their only difference yah?

[turbid dagger]

No, actually
That might actually be why uh
Incubi are not reprinted,

[frank crystal]

Oh, wait what’s the difference then?

[frank crystal]

Oh

[turbid dagger]

:Pained:

[frank crystal]

So instead of being seducers, they’re uhh, they’re rapists

[turbid dagger]

Probably!

[frank crystal]

Huh

1e writing

[turbid dagger]

1e writing!

I suggest you use a male succubus,

[frank crystal]

Yah I think I will

Man, 1e writing is so fucking weird

[turbid dagger]

It really is!

[frank crystal]

It’s very much that late 2000s early 2010s chuddiness where they weren’t actively bigoted but wanting things to be “realistic” and “grounded”

And also like, trying to be woke but like, woke 0.1

Where being woke is about how we just need to acknowledge that men are, fundamentally different then women, but those differences are what make women special

[turbid dagger]

Eh well,
It did do a lot of the classic RPG 'this species is hard coded to be evil and is therefore always chill to murder'

[frank crystal]

Idk if that’s even woke 0.1 that’s just being a chud I think

[clever cobalt]

Thankfully 2e has largely course corrected this stuff

[frank crystal]

Yah but they really loved throwing in SA with those murderous monsters

[clever cobalt]

Also slavery

Dont forget slavery

[frank crystal]

Yah lots of slavery

That felt less like a paizo thing though

That was something they inherited from dnd

[clever cobalt]

looks at 1e Gnolls

Oh yeah I know

[frank crystal]

Like every other evil monster in dnd is also a slaver

[clever cobalt]

But still, it felt very tryhard edgy at times

If that makes sense

[frank crystal]

It’s the go to way to make something evil

[frank crystal]

Yah for sure

Though, I have a question

So there anything in 1e as blatantly a the writers barely disguised fetish as the drow?

Besides their own drow anyway

[clever cobalt]

How so?

Not familiar with 1e drow

[frank crystal]

No I mean dnd drow

[clever cobalt]

Ah

Well

[frank crystal]

The species of matriarchal BDSM mistresses who’s men exclusively exist for breeding purposes

[clever cobalt]

Lamashtu sorta

[frank crystal]

Oh yah

[rapid wagon]

late to this, but the description doesn't do much credit to it; but I dont think the intent behind an incubus is to be a rapist. Rather more dominant/forward in their seductive approach; which to be fair there's an audience for as far as snesual entities.

[karmic rampart]

that's an average of nat 3

relatable