Pathfinder

[surreal basin]

Total

And required your wizards entire turn to set up

The weakness giving abilities do not scale well at all

[upbeat ridge]

i didnt mention a wizard using forcible energy here

[surreal basin]

Right

Okay then I go back to “it effects a very small number of creatures”

[upbeat ridge]

fair, but again it feels slightly too gamey to me personally

[surreal basin]

Fair I guess but that’s not a balance issue which is what people are going crazy about and is the thing I mean people are overreacting to

I think it’s a weird but realistically edge case problem

That they’ll probably fix in the summer errata

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I'm sort of with Emily
This will effect 90% of games not at all, 8% of games by making a strange encounter here and there randomly be easier, and 2% of games by having some very strange build try and force through 20 imposed weaknesses and annoy at least one other person at the table

[surreal basin]

It’s flickmaces but even less

Yeah you’ve p much got my feelings on it

If you’re running a campaign where the players fight trolls and you have an extreme power gamer

Maybe be worried then

Surely this requires psychic to be nerfed again

:p

You can’t even really do this with the uh

The thing is be most worried about people abusing

Holy

But holy isn’t a damage type so you can’t really…. Stack it like that

[warped orbit]

holy as a trait weakness does not stack, yes

[surreal basin]

Ye

Which is the one I’d be concerned about because it’s v broadly applicable to lots of guys

Fiends and undead almost as a whole

[warped orbit]

Undead actually don't have that much holy weakness IIRC

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s

Weird

[warped orbit]

The undead with vitality weakness will get shredded through this now though

[surreal basin]

Well

How many vitality sources can you stack

Cause you can’t stack sources on spells p much at all

[warped orbit]

Two pretty much trivially already

Three if you really dedicate runes

And that's just runes and and Infuse Vitality

[surreal basin]

… infuse vitality, vitalizing rune or whatever it’s called

What’s the third

[warped orbit]

Brilliant rune

Which Brilliant is pretty reasonable for general use, more than Vitalizing

[surreal basin]

Yeah brilliant is p good

Still a pretty big commitment to really smacking down like

20 statblocks at most

[warped orbit]

But also IME zombies already get shredded

[surreal basin]

I still expect this to get changed mind

Oh yeah zombies are chaff

[warped orbit]

This will just make it even more so

[surreal basin]

You should never be upset the zombies in your fight are getting blowed up

That’s their role

Yeah anyway my point is I think this is like

A moderately annoying issue at worth

Worst

[warped orbit]

it's not the biggest deal, but I do think it has a decent chance of adding a significant chunk of damage in some fights

[surreal basin]

Ye

[errant roost]

It also just seems kind of annoying in play? How many other places do you need to count out each individual source instead of just lumping them all together

[warped orbit]

the bigger deal is honestly also that on the flipside, this will also apply to resistance now presumably

[turbid dagger]

That Noble Branch build I alluded too does manage this, but that's because it keys off the transcend's deterministic damage that is nonetheless a separate action and thus a separate instance of damage

[surreal basin]

Idk maybe I just have a different perspective cause my reaction to that is just “neat, that build will really shine in a couple of fights”

Ultimately I just think it’s funny that people seem to think this is gonna make the game explode

[wraith snow]

Not problematic balance-wise or anything but a Burn It! Wizard could apply fire weakness twice which is a pretty cute build

[turbid dagger]

That particular build was for a Spore War game that tragically did not get off the ground 😔
But if it did! It would have been glorious!

[surreal basin]

True?

*!

Maybe they won’t change it and wizard will finally be good

[turbid dagger]

HOLD THE PHONE
TWO NEW CLASSES COMING TO PLAYTEST SOON

Daredevil and
SLAYER

[wary yoke]

Zadim: Am I a joke to you!?

[tribal steeple]

• fight pseudo-undead with positive weakness, VTT doesn't recognize the damage typing correctly and it doesn't do damage math right so the fight takes forever
• fight explicitly undead enemy with positive weakness, they have an automatic counterspell feature vs any positive/vitality effect which it passes every time
  I feel like the game just doesn't want me to be using my vitality damage from my wood element

[warped orbit]

Slayer is coming back?!?

what

[turbid dagger]

What's so wild to me is
Avenger is already a pseudo-Slayer both in mechanics and 'it's alternatively called Slayer in the arch description'
But yeah!

[warped orbit]

yeah I am very surprised by this

I figured between Rogue and Ranger, and more class archetypes, there wouldn't be the space for it

[turbid dagger]

Slayer seems to have a 'quarry' class feature and a 'bloody fuller' activity, while Daredevils have 'risky' actions and get 'adrenaline'

[warped orbit]

so I am very curious what they plan on doing with it

[wraith snow]

Honestly I felt like Rangers in this system felt very similar to the old Slayer, at least in some respects

[turbid dagger]

Daredevil seems to have a map manipulation element
One of it's core class features is that it deals damage when it bunts someone into an obstacle
And it gets this by default

[wraith snow]

Ah, Charimaless Swash

[turbid dagger]

Str swash...................

[warped orbit]

could this be.... Brawler rework?

[turbid dagger]

It has this too!

[turbid dagger]

Don't give me hope............
For what it's worth, the daredevil in this test thingy was using a weapon
I don't remember what but it was a weird one
I think a flying talon of all things?

[warped orbit]

mostly the focus on maneuvers and such kinda made me think of it

[turbid dagger]

Yeeeeee

[warped orbit]

would not be surprised if they had some unarmed support at least

[wraith snow]

If it doesn't you can always force it with Wrestler

[turbid dagger]

If they are about knocking people into things Centaur is already going to be one of the best picks possible, and they get Ironhoof :3

[surreal basin]

what is this from

the info

[wraith snow]

paizo twitch stream

[turbid dagger]

The paizo stream going right now is doing a combat with the playtest classes

[warped orbit]

https://www.twitch.tv/OfficialPaizo

they are doing a playtest right now, yeah

[turbid dagger]

Slayer.....

[warped orbit]

kind of an odd one

okay and Bloody Fuller apparently lets you ignore some phys resistance on your Quarry

[turbid dagger]

Oh so this

Isn't 1e Slayer

One of my friends is gonna pop off

[warped orbit]

Daredevil gets MAP reduction while having Adrenaline

so Slayer seems to have hunting tools they prepare and modify during daily prep

interesting

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, the vibe kind of seems like a thaum implement/exemplar ikon situation where they're a Gear Based Class

[balmy orchid]

Season of Ghosts tonight........

[turbid dagger]

Have fun!!!

[upbeat ridge]

batman class

mmmm

maybe more kraven the hunter

or blade

[warped orbit]

does seem to be kind of the vibe, yeah

[upbeat ridge]

i do feel like reddit is overreacting about the damage types clarifaction, but i hope they change it soon

[turbid dagger]

Apparently the errata got updated with this announcement, so it might already have gotten adjusted

[wraith snow]

Had a fun bossfight in a homebrew game tonight, managed to get through almost entirely unharmed while 2 allies went down

[upbeat ridge]

i read it and this is it's current form

[upbeat ridge]

mmm. it seems like daredevil is similar to swash but has more area control as opposed to damage

and it does play a bit different, adrenaline only lasts untill the beginning of your next turn

we dont have something like this yet, caliban type shit

so i feel like daredevil has a unique niche

[turbid dagger]

I noted on another server-
Centaur has another class to go weirdly crazy shoving people with

If a wall is behind your target just shoving three times is bizarrely economical damage with this

Considering adrenaline also gives you better MAP

[turbid dagger]

Also where did you find these notes, I'd like to share with my friends

[upbeat ridge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1r48fr0/notes_from_the_stream_on_the_next_playtest_classes/

[turbid dagger]

Thank ya!

[upbeat ridge]

yeah, caliban type shit

people are saying daredevil is swash 2 and i disagree

MAINLY that you dont have to succeed on the risky action

[turbid dagger]

Wow people are already complaining about Daredevil's existence yeah
Reddit is a gigantic slime pit

[novel merlin]

Honestly I dont think youve played with a swash if you think "doing athletics" is a swash thing

Unless you're doing a derring-do swash/wrestler thing, swash is just basically every turn: charisma skill, move, finisher

[turbid dagger]

I see where they're coming from, where you get The Buff from doing Skill Stuff and then use The Buff to enhance the rest of your turn
But also
Blowing them up with my mind

[novel merlin]

I feel like thats just a lot of classes

rogue and inventor basically do the same

(but both in a more fun way imo)

Swash is a class i reccomend to people who dont want a lot of mechanical complexity and just want a "rotation"

[turbid dagger]

Swashbuckler is indeed my favorite class because it's amazing to make a tight mechanical loop for

[novel merlin]

Yeah I think its fun, just like not complicated

[turbid dagger]

My half-orc swash is maybe my favorite RPG character of all time

Svetlana Khavortorov has been called a 'luck vampire'

Almost every time we get into a fight I throw a wild haymaker MAP finisher and it's a freak crit

Anyway yeah, Swashes are fundamentally pretty simple for how effective they are
I actually rec them as a great beginner class, both because of that and because they're one of the few martials that still do stuff if they roll a 3 on their rolls

You still get panache on a failed bravado roll, and you still get damage on a failed (confident) finisher

[balmy orchid]

We're doing a test combat

https://i.imgur.com/C88N3p7.png

My first roll

[turbid dagger]

Yesssssss

[balmy orchid]

My Eidolon just ripped a goblin asunder

[warped orbit]

Rapier crit moment

[errant roost]

Slayer feels like it could be Monster Hunter meets Bloodborne Hunter, and I'm here for it

[upbeat ridge]

i kinda wish the weakness errata was per character as in if a magus with a flaming rune and arcane cascade (fire) and spellstriking with ignition would only proc a fire weakness once, but if they had a spell from a caster friend that gave them extra fire damage it would trigger twice

since that would be a cool caster buff

[errant roost]

Oh, that'd be neat. Makes the bookkeeping more fiddly, but helps pay back the caster's action economy.

[upbeat ridge]

yeah

[upbeat ridge]

technically what the actual rule is, is even more fiddly

since each instance of added damage of a specific type procs weaknesses

so this example would be 3 times and 4 times respectivley

[errant roost]

Mhm. I think tracking per character is probably a lesser mental load, but more than just saying "once per damage type per action"

[upbeat ridge]

i DO agree that for balance and bookkeeping reasons it should be only one weakness proc per damage type per attack regardless, but this would be a cool caster buff

[upbeat ridge]

yeah

i hope they change it to one or the other

because the optimzers have found a way to kill treerazer in like 3 hits with this apparently

[warped orbit]

lmao

[upbeat ridge]

which is VERY whiteroom i know, but i want to consider pf2e a well balanced system in that regard

and mortal weakness should be one activation on top imo

that's kinda thaum's thing

(and i think that's how people have ran it?)

[warped orbit]

Thaum gives them weakness to your Strike, with personal antithesis
and Mortal likewise makes your damage activate the highest weakness regardless of type

but either way both also only happen once I think

[upbeat ridge]

as in, if a thaum hits a creature weak to fire with a flaming rune and mortal weakness it should proc the fire weakness twice

i am totally fine with them doing that

from a balance perspective

[warped orbit]

it should do that, yes

[steel blade]

optimizing the fun out of things doesnt mean the game isn't otherwise well balanced i havent heard about a 3-hit treerazer kill but i've heard of people whining about proccing weakness 10 times, and its like
Okay, cool, you stacked 10 fucking buffs on one person. Yeah, that totally should absolutely fucking annihilate someone, next question.

[surreal basin]

Man

Early animal companions really feel like ass huh

Unless you’re just spamming their support action nonstop

[wraith snow]

I've found the opposite though ig it depends what you mean by early

At very low levels I've found they feel great

But it very quickly turns around

[surreal basin]

Idk maybe I just have bad luck but my ranger bird companion hasn’t done much of use in levels 1-5

[wraith snow]

When I played in an Alkenstar game the animal companion in that game carried a lot of low level encounters, and I've gotten a lot of value out of Riding Drake at low levels personally

Though the opposite point I can site is a player in the homebrew game I'm in went all in on an animal companion as a build gimmick and they really regret it

[upbeat ridge]

Has foundry updated to the new errata yet?

The weakness clarification is probably not actually too abusable in practicality and is a cool “buff” to some classes, but it still feels slightly weird to me, but I think I’m coming around on it

[solar thorn]

animals feel way too hard to keep alive if they don't have death saves

I don't recall if they do or don't RAW, I always give them death saves in my games because uhhhh my players will actually cry if their dog dies

[vocal ember]

yeah they do https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2324

[solar thorn]

Okay, good

[rustic cape]

I found my animal companion to be relatively useful and reasonably durable from levels 8-10 in Frozen Flame

I have no insight on levels beyond that, as I've never seen them at higher levels, but they were reasonably effective

[wraith snow]

Admittedly I've found at higher levels they kinda stop being very useful, though still reasonably durable

And as a mount or as a flanking partner they still function, which isn't nothing

But it's probably not a great sign if their strong points are
-is a warm body
-can move

At least in terms of wanting to play out that particular character fantasy

[warped orbit]

They scale slower than PCs, but they don't fully fall off until like 15+

But even then they're still fine mostly

[wraith snow]

Yeah, the game I'm thinking of is at level 19 currently and that animal companion hasn't been very helpful in a while

[warped orbit]

IIRC you can also take multiple specialisations, which does help a bit

[warped orbit]

Yeah it's mostly just a bunch of numeric stuff
Their stats and proficiency scale slower, they don't get runes or apex items, etc

[wraith snow]

Still nice to have as a movement option though

[warped orbit]

Mounts are always useful for free movement yeah

And other companions also still contribute through support, flanking, body blocking, etc

[solar thorn]

it was mostly some lucky rolls but my ranger's gigantic snake got a lot of fame in our abomination vaults game by being really hard to displace

having a 2x2 of "fuck off" in the narrow passages of that AP was a major boon

[wraith snow]

I've heard similar about Inventor companion for that AP so that tracks

[solar thorn]

AV is weird since it both makes sense that the passages and rooms are really narrow but also it neuters a decent portion of the combat toolkit

I've heard people sometimes halve the tile size to double up on space

but that then makes it very bizzarely large

[warped orbit]

we also had a beastmaster Ranger in our AV party

and they did okay

though that player also didn't exactly utilize their companions to the fullest
for fear or them getting hurt

[clever cobalt]

So what's the deal with the two new classes?

the Slayer and Daredevil iirc?

[wary yoke]

Slayer - Monster Hunter the class
Daredevil - I think gain unique combat benefits and failure effects that are momentum based?

[turbid dagger]

My Basic Gist I've been passing around for folks

[clever cobalt]

Slayer seems neat

[wraith snow]

I do like that there's another option for MAP Evasion now, it's a fun build focus

Plus it's neat to see it on a core class mechanic rather than a feat or a subclass that you can't access via dedication, I'm wondering if Adrenaline will be accessible via the dedication

[wary yoke]

Both these classes seem like they'd be very fun to use with archetypes as well

Either archetyping into another class or taking them as archetypes

[clever cobalt]

I hope the Slayer Iconic is a Kholo >_>

[rustic cape]

I've seen an interesting take that daredevil seems like it would make a really good brawler

[solar thorn]

Yeah that sounds like a slam dunk

[ember bay]

Did Slayer not have an Iconic in 1e? Or have they changed who Iconics are between editions?

[warped orbit]

they have changed iconics for some classes

this was the Slayer iconic in 1e

[turbid dagger]

Importantly, Slayer 2e is an entirely different narrative concept from Slayer 1e, which still exists as the Avenger rogue archetype

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Which also makes sense IMO

It has some similarities tho

Quarry seems like it’s gonna be conceptually similar to studied target

[warped orbit]

it seems to be somewhere between Hunt Prey and Investigator leads

[surreal basin]

[clever cobalt]

Playtest drops tomorrow, apperantly

9am Paizo time (aka Pacific)

[solar storm]

Ska Pacific

Great character name

[clever cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

[clever cobalt]

https://downloads.paizo.com/RisksandRewards_Playtest.pdf

Playtest is out

[light gyro]

level 1 single action stride -> (reposiiton/shove/trip/grapple) yum

[clever cobalt]

Slayers can get an advanced weapon at level 1

[warped orbit]

Gonna take a look at that in a bit

[warped orbit]

Daredevil apparently has a feat for kicking people in the balls

And it's pretty good too

Pretty decent side grade to Combat Grab I think

[warped orbit]

alright, time to give this a proper read

right off the bat, only light armor feels like it'll make Str KAS Daredevil a bit dicey

I guess you could go +4 Str, +3 Dex, but that also feels a bit rough

[warped orbit]

oh I kinda like this one

[clever cobalt]

Manipulate though

[upbeat ridge]

What natural attack feats are there in pf2e?

Something that would get you the equivalent of a martial weapon balance wise

[warped orbit]

Gnoll Crunch

Kashrishi have some good feats for their horn

Clawdancer if you already have claws

I rec Clawdancer especially

It's a fun archetype

[upbeat ridge]

breakway attack looks sick for unarmed daredevil

[turbid dagger]

One of the best ones is Centaur's Steelhoof, d8 finesse
Appropriately, Centaur is also the best Daredevil ancestry for some other reasons

The large size may hurt with getting props tho, but only if you're really relying on bigger creatures for it

Usually you can like
Find a wall

[warped orbit]

Centaur Daredevil does look like it'll be funny yeah

with a dip into Guardian for that shove feat too

oh this seems pretty great for Slayer

free hand requirement to use, but that's basically free ghost touch
and circumventing regen on quarry

on a negative note, I don't get why these have delayed scaling

the aura farming feat

[turbid dagger]

The armor tool they get is wild
Very easy access to on demand +2 circ to AC, even if your wielding a greatsword

Or more likely, a bastard sword

Because,

[warped orbit]

yeah that one seemed good, but weird restrictions on what you can use it with

though bastard sword would probably be good yeah

would also synergize well with all the weapon buffs they have that require a free hand

free Deadly d8 on your bastard sword

the armor and the weapon definitely seem like the standout tools to me so far

though the alchemy kit has some neat utility

Panoply I am... not very impressed by

[turbid dagger]

Yayyyyy free daggers,

[warped orbit]

with delayed rune scaling

it just feels very mehhh

getting free cold iron/silver daggers, or some other weapons with that one feat, just doesn't really draw me in

oh wow, that's a lot of bleed

might be the first time I'm actually kinda impressed by a bleed based feat

[turbid dagger]

Yeah I was blown away by that
Sword bomb of instant blood death

[warped orbit]

Slayer overall looks pretty cool

[clever cobalt]

Good lord that's a lot of persistent bleed

[echo briar]

Slayer feels like it needs an identity.

Right now it looks like thaumaturge for people who don't like thaumaturge.

[rustic cape]

Surki daredevil incoming :D

[echo briar]

I feel like giving trophies more than just a way to change damage types would be greatly appreciated.

[warped orbit]

it is largely a more mundane Thaum, but I think that's okay

[wary yoke]

What I was thought: MonHunt player character
What I got: Witcher

[warped orbit]

it is definitely pretty Witcher, yeah

but I did kinda expect that

[errant roost]

so I guess the million dollar question is does it do Witcher better/different than ranger, thaum, or mutagen alchemist

[warped orbit]

I think it does personally

[echo briar]

I feel like leaning more on the trophy system would do a lot of good.

At minimum, give some feats the Trophy tag, that lets you swap them out whenever you get a new trophy.

[errant roost]

brawler 2: this time, it's personal

[warped orbit]

I do think they could use some more stuff

but partially that's also just playtest things

[turbid dagger]

Two handed armor slayer definitely seems cool AF

Especially since you can fairly trivially get a phys resist of your choice using trophies

[wary yoke]

Bear school...

[turbid dagger]

Yesssssss
Have you seen the Warded Armor tool?

[wary yoke]

Yep, its less exciting but Armored Shelter is so cool

+3 parry is nice

[turbid dagger]

As an eternal two handed weapon lover I'm very very thrilled to see a class that can get equivalent AC to one handed or shield users with them

[turbid dagger]

Where did you get the +3? It increases TO 2, not increases BY 2

[wary yoke]

Ah, thought it was by 2

[turbid dagger]

Yeahhh, this is typical parry enhancement like Guardian's Raise Haft

[wary yoke]

On par with other parry boosters

[turbid dagger]

Nice, but not Unique like Warded Armor's '+2 parry with Greatsword'

[wary yoke]

... I do kinda want to make a human paired bloodseeker/crossbow slayer packing a bastard sword and gauntlet bow

Love to see some Two-Hand representation

[surreal basin]

Oh my god combo weapon actually being good

What the fuck

[wary yoke]

That too!

[surreal basin]

Being able to do a melee and firearm hit both at no map is really strong actually

[turbid dagger]

Them sneaking Bloodborne allusions in there is Very Funny

[wary yoke]

I'm guessing there will be more combination weapons this book

[tribal steeple]

After browsing the monster core 2 content on AON, I've concluded that my scrungly little level 14 shadow sorcerer could and would totally do the Owb Pact ritual as a non-Caligni (which automatically crit fails and turns into an owb fight) specifically for the purpose of fighting, killing, and consuming the magical power of these owbs

Yeah it automatically bites off part of your essence and applies doomed 2, but that's fine. Her soul is just the lure and she'll be getting it right back in minutes :)

[upbeat ridge]

Slayer looks sick as hell too

[surreal basin]

Okay so daredevil differs from swash in having no real spike damage and being more of generating and keeping adrenaline rather than spending

Okay yeah this is brawler

[turbid dagger]

It's probably the most control-oriented martial at the moment
It can set up the very potent grappled+prone combo very easy from level 1

[upbeat ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/hitman-throw-briefcase-jetski-gif-15758520

Breakaway attack makes me think of this

https://tenor.com/view/with-a-pencil-john-wick-scary-scared-pencil-gif-16042376

Or this

[surreal basin]

Breakaway rocks yeah

[surreal basin]

Daredevil seems

Ridiculously fun

[turbid dagger]

A lot of their feats are not to my taste, but what I get when I pick all the ones that are to my taste is 100% my shit

Hopefully it gets some nudges in the right direction after the playtest, but yeah the vibe is good

[solar storm]

I was lowkey gonna ignore this for ease of play and now I officially can

[turbid dagger]

What Is Happening

Oh lmao

I'm late!

[surreal basin]

Do you wanna know something hilarious

This has wrapped back around to the way my group has always run it

[upbeat ridge]

Harmony is restored.

[solar storm]

god it was just so tedious sounding to work out what packets of damage re-triggered weakness and which ones didn't

[upbeat ridge]

Although a weakness triggering multiple times opened up some cool build opportunities, it could get abusable and was a bit fiddly I’ll admit

[upbeat ridge]

Frankly, I think that keeping individual weakness proccing multiple times, but limiting the weakness to only be able to do up to the amount of damage that triggered it would preserve the build opportunities but limit the damage from being too high. It would be cool, but I do acknowledge that it would make it even MORE fiddly

(As in 1 fire damage would only result in 1 point of extra damage)

[balmy orchid]

I did realize I think pathfinder might be the perfect game for my "civil war fantasty" game i always wanted to run

[upbeat ridge]

And resistances would work the same but mirrored, so a resistance triggering wouldn’t “overspill” into another damage type if y’all get what I mean

But I’m totally fine with them going back on the clarification/going with the foundry implementation, it’s better design mechanics wise imo

Foundry never updated lmao

[novel merlin]

It's pretty much the right tech level

[clever cobalt]

I concur

[frank crystal]

What’s the Golarion equivalent to the confederacy?

[wary yoke]

In what regard?

Lost Cause, economy depends on slavery, filibustering?

[upbeat ridge]

cheliax?

idk

its awlays fun to kick hellknight ass

[surreal basin]

Everyone is failing that second one now

[echo briar]

Do you need an evil rebellion? Because I don't actually think any of those exist.

But I could totally see part of Cheliax trying to break off to reinstate slavery. Although in that case you end up with a substantially worse union analog.

[turbid dagger]

Maybe Molthune? Seceded from Cheliax to become a military dictatorship
But yeah, there aren't many Evil Revolutions

[upbeat ridge]

Ough. Lizardfolk unarmed daredevil with iruxi armaments (claws) and breakaway attack

[turbid dagger]

I didn't go for Breakaway Attack but my first idea for Daredevil was very similar

[echo briar]

My first thought was a nephilim who was militantly anti drugs.

A real D.A.R.E Devil

[clever cobalt]

Galt kinda sorta?

[trail nova]

Uh, closest I have is Taldor during the War for the Crown AP.

(And you could probably have a group of nobles pissed at Eutropia’s reforms try and pull a Cheliax 2 in Taldor.)

[wraith snow]

Not quite a rebellion given it's lead by a rightful king, but Ingimundr (the Linnorm King on the west coast of the Saga Lands) wants to go back to the Good Ol' Days after 9/11 of coastal pillaging, including very intentionally turning a blind eye to his people attacking other Linnorm kingdoms.

Similarly, the White Witch oldguard in Irrisen aren't doing anything openly (that we know of) but are conservative, resent the current government, and (at least in 1e lore) were active slavers

[light gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/lemuen-arknights-exusiai-gif-938782285781705383

[wraith snow]

Unfortunately I don't think the adventurer's chair counts

[light gyro]

a chair you can swap between manual and motorised vehicle mode seems straightforward enough to homebrew, at least

[balmy orchid]

What is a prop?

[wraith snow]

Admittedly I am curious to see if official map designs will change in any way bc in my experience in most APs the terrain leaves a lot to be desired in terms of obstacles, cover elements, etc

[turbid dagger]

It definitely depends
Like, daredevil would literally never be without props in, say, abomination vaults
But dunno about other less megadungeony ones

[wraith snow]

Admittedly it has been a while but I recall a lot of open areas in SoT

Same for (at least the early parts) of Stolen Fates

[stuck bane]

The first handful of early stolen fates locations to come to mind did have some variety there; if not large objects then at least large or bigger creatures

Creatures bigger than you also count as props

[wraith snow]

Ah, didn't occur to me at first but ig you could use a Halfling or other small race

So that most all enemies become props

[stuck bane]

It seems a bit rough for large ancestries but those seem like they have trouble with some aps to begin with

[warped orbit]

One slight downside is a bunch of the stunts only work against creatures up to one size bigger than you

[stuck bane]

Doesn’t look like they’re worded in a way where titan wrestler could mitigate that either

[warped orbit]

Magus meta post errata

[wraith snow]

Fire Ray as a reflex save, coming to an errata near you

[warped orbit]

don't worry, they have Decay domain as a backup

[upbeat ridge]

Magus isn’t terrible, it just needs to not be potential man

And maybe needs some better in-class options to spellstrike with

I’m hopeful for impossible magic

I kinda wish that consecrated panoply was a special throwers bandolier that you could put runes on rather than auto scaling

It doesn’t get +1 striking till level seven

Or if it copies the runes of a one handed weapon or Handwraps

[warped orbit]

If it copied runes it would be better

Though its still mostly just innate Quick Draw

And it also just has has bad weapon access

Dagger, club, dart, is not a good list of options

[upbeat ridge]

I think it calls out daggers specifically

But you basically get reload 0 daggers

I wanna have more synergies around having the daggers in people

Like stick one in an enemy and hammer it in

Or make em explode

[warped orbit]

there's a feat at 6 to make it different weapons

it also lets you make them clubs, darts, or shortswords

which unfortunately is just not a great selection, outside of the shortswords

[rustic cape]

Wait, what happened with magus?

[warped orbit]

Ptah has staff as favored weapon, and the Fire Domain

[rustic cape]

Does fire have something particularly good for magus?

[warped orbit]

and with the recent clarification that Deadly Simplicity applies to two hand, it makes staff a d10 reach deadly d8 for Twisting Tree

[warped orbit]

Fire Ray

2d6 damage, +2d6 per rank focus attack spells

Domain spells are now the best option for focus spells to spellstrike with again

[turbid dagger]

I also does extra damage unless they move off that spot, which is fun

[warped orbit]

backup option is Decay domain

for Withering Grasp

[warped orbit]

has a much more easily thematic deity option though
https://2e.aonprd.com/Deities.aspx?ID=365

[rustic cape]

Daaaaang that’s good

What do we think the best entry for domains is? Cleric? Champion? Something else I’m forgetting?

Oh wait cleric for deadly simplicity

[warped orbit]

yeah

Champ is also good as an option though

[rustic cape]

Well, I know the next thing I want to play

[warped orbit]

but +2 Cha is difficult to swing

Wis gets you Will saves at least

[rustic cape]

Ye

[upbeat ridge]

oh shit, yeah if you wanna go full melee shortswords are great

[warped orbit]

Yeah but at that point, just take Bloodseeking Edge instead

Since you get free Returning at 7 if you wanna do throwing

The only real edge Panoply has is that they're consecrated and precious material

But that can also be emulated with other items

[rustic cape]

Hmmmm punishing shove staff acrobat

[upbeat ridge]

idk, its cool

but i agree that panoply may be slighty underpowered compared to the others

[warped orbit]

it is cool, I just wish it was a little bit better

[clever cobalt]

The Slayer feels like kind of a discount Thaumaturge to me currently

Definitely has potential though

[wraith snow]

It definitely feels conceptually similar yeah

[surreal basin]

Haven’t read much but it does seem less focused on magic items

[wraith snow]

That's definitely true, it depends on whether you view Thaum's identity as a magical trinket collector or a specialized supernatural hunter

Slayer offers a lot of the latter but less of the former

[clever cobalt]

Im mostly talking mechanically admittedly

Though thematically it still applies imo, if to a lesser extent

[turbid dagger]

Two weeks until Hellbreakers drops.........
I think I'll see if it's something fun for me to run after Abomvaults

[turbid dagger]

So,
What do people spend starting GP on, other than weapons, armor, and adventurer's packs
I am making test builds for Daredevil and Slayer and both save lots of their starting GP (daredevil uses iruxi claws, slayer gets a free breastplate)

[tribal steeple]

    Basic Adventuring Gear (8 gp, 24 sp, 9 cp)
        Backpack                1 sp
        Basic Crafter's Book    1 sp
        Compass                 1 gp
        Cookware                1 gp
        Crowbar                 5 sp
        Hourglass               3 gp
        Mirror                  1 gp
        Primal Symbol           N/A
        Ruler                   5 sp
        Signal Whistle          8 cp
        Ten-Foot Pole           1 cp
        Tent (Pup)              8 sp
        Tool (Short)            4 sp
        Trundle Wheel           1 gp
        Writing Set             1 gp
    Climbing Kit          5 sp
    Explorer's Clothing   1 sp
    Antidote              3 gp
    Healing Potion        4 gp
    Versatile Tinderbox   20 gp
    Scrolls, 1st Rank     4 gp (Fleet Step, Jump, Helpful Steps, Pest Form)```
here's the first level of my Kineticist's `Item Wishlist By Level` for some ideas

[eager mountain]

abomination vaults

https://tenor.com/view/scream-kevin-home-alone-scared-gif-14735390

[solar storm]

Lmfao

[eager mountain]

we hit with a fireball

[tribal steeple]

Sensible.

[eager mountain]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQU50NDu6zg&pp=ygUcZ3VuIGZpcmluZyBtaXNzaXNzaXBwaSBxdWVlbg%3D%3D ||

[true delta]

Confusing description

[eager mountain]

frozen lava is another item

[true delta]

Thx

[eager mountain]

mines the second level one

[tribal steeple]

yeah eternal eruption is the reusable version of frozen lava, both of which are item fireballs

[paper inlet]

Wait

Have I missed

New class announcements/playtests

[turbid dagger]

Yep!
Daredevil and Slayer play test, out now! Panic!

[light gyro]

actually good teamwork and strategy vs: rolling 3, 4, 3, 3 on a turn

[light gyro]

never mind back to back nat 20's we're so back

[wary yoke]

Reminds me of the first session of a Lancer 3-shot, first half of the combat I was on fire and constantly getting crits, second half I ate shit

[surreal basin]

WAIT

SLAYER HAS ALEXANDER ANDRERSON INFINITE BLESSED KNIVES???

[turbid dagger]

Yes!
It's dubiously effective! But yes!

[fossil dome]

Wht?

[surreal basin]

Also idk if i agree that it fulfills the same mechanic niche as thaum tbh

It’s a LOT more aggressive

And seems to have significantly less of the like

Mystic utility and tricks

[surreal basin]

The panopoly hunting tool gives you infinite holy throwing daggers

[fossil dome]

Hah

[surreal basin]

Tbh they’re not like

Amazing

But they’re the best you’re gonna get for thrown weapons outside of the shadow sheath

Like as far as that archetype of character goes it’s p good

And if you’re in a campaign with a lot of fiends or undead i could see it being REALLY good

Also the armor tool seems like it would genuinely be p good for being more of a tanky fella

YO

A CLASS THAT CAN USE ANY ADVANCED MELEE WEAPON WITH NO PENALTY

[turbid dagger]

People on the 2e discord have been noting that it still needs to be Common RAW but Rarity doesn't matter practically so

[surreal basin]

((From level 1))

Yeah

I mean by RAW it’s p much impossible to get non-common stuff anyway

Oh shit warded mail can pick up a feat at level 2 to ignore speed penalty, and can use heavy armor

That’s big actually

[turbid dagger]

Unfortunately there aren't any level 0 heavy armors to start with, but getting it later is easy
I really like warded mail, more than Bloodseeker tbh

[surreal basin]

I’m probably about to playtest a combination weapon slayer

To see if they can manage it lmao

[turbid dagger]

Yoooo
Im trying to get play tests together in my friend circle but it ain't hitting 😭

[clever cobalt]

Id probably make a Bloodseeker at first level and a warded mail when you can get a second relic

[frozen flame]

I do wish there was a way to get a second one faster

It feels like it would be rough to have to wait until level 11 for it

[wary yoke]

In my in-person game, my character may be (unwillingly) going Mythic

Basically, he's an Exemplar that's slowly being taken over by his divine spark, so once he hits 12, it's going to metastasize into him becoming a Godling

[crystal walrus]

https://lithuasil.itch.io/pathfinder-flavourful-mass-combat

occasional guest @chrome harbor made a thing and i'm shilling it here too

[balmy orchid]

Season of Ghosts Spoilers:
Session 1:

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKX9fGvF63E||

[rapid wagon]

double checking, can temp hit points get someone to become concious?

like the spell rousing splash on an unconcious target

[warped orbit]

they cannot

only actual healing

[rapid wagon]

dang, rousing splash seems not very good in that case

[warped orbit]

It's okay to spread some tHP around

But not that great yeah

[rapid wagon]

ill ask my gm if i can change it, i took it as a kinda temp get people up tool but clearly didn't know how it worked

[turbid dagger]

What the cleric in my Abomination Vaults table has been doing is the opposite
Slapping it on people before heading into a potentially dangerous room as a no-cost buff for any fight they stumble into

[warped orbit]

Yeah that's usually what I see people use it for

[desert vale]

One thing I made up which doesnt really work. Is. Having Aroden meant to be reborn as a human and live as a human for a time.

And his death was caused by his new mother being murdered before he was born.

this gave birth to a new Asuran Rana

[balmy orchid]

btw we're only one session in but Season of Ghosts is really fun so far

[light gyro]

Hope I can experience season of GOATs one day :)

[oak pilot]

nice, we just completed our session 2 on friday

it's so good

though judging by your post, you got a little further in session 1 than we did

[turbid dagger]

So apparently the new character options for Hellbreakers are-
||A Hellbreaker archetype with anti-devil stuff....||
||AND A DOG ANIMAL COMPANION (seperate from wolf)||

[rustic cape]

Important

[dapper tusk]

do you think there are enough large creatures in this corner of the room

[warped orbit]

needs more

[wary yoke]

Surely you could have some minotaur, jotun, or centaur characters

[errant roost]

the treant looks sturdy, I bet you could stack something on top

[surreal basin]

Bloodlords spotted

[trim bluff]

Big fan of the image choices

[light gyro]

Biggest room in a paizo ap

[rustic cape]

In one of Monte Cook's d20 games, the setting was ruled by small-ish giants, and there was a sidebar that explicitly said, "okay, you know how spaces in d20 game maps are improbably big? we're using the giants thing as an excuse for that"

[vital kiln]

Question regarding Yaoguai, does "you revert back to your true form after an hour of being unconscious" include falling asleep

[steel blade]

the unconcious condition specifically mentions being asleep, so yes

yaoguai is not the ancestry to pick if you want to pretend to be another ancestry for very long

[vital kiln]

Makes sense

...man why are there so many more uncommon and rare ancestries than common ones

[wraith snow]

Usually it's regional prevalence, at least in the case of uncommon

[steel blade]

take a look at a pie chart showing the racial diversity of any real world country, or even the whole world there's gonna be a handful of big slices making up most of the pie, and then a ton of smaller ones and probably an 'other' that accounts for the Rare equivalents

[tribal steeple]

One of my ideas for justifying a rare ancestry where it doesn't make much sense is an Anadi Rogue far from Mwangi who does all sorts of rogue things (theft, assassination, etc.). It's the perfect cover: nobody would expect the noble house's contract consultant to secretly be a giant spider who performs espionage

Any witnesses are given a business card that just says "nobody will believe you"

[steel blade]

My idea for justifying a rare ancestry anywhere is "adventurers are by definition, exceptional. You think normal folks go around looking to kill monsters for money? "

[tribal steeple]

Normal people have stable jobs and a loving family to take care of.

[tight flare]

Magus with psychic dedication for imaginary weapon spellstrike good or bad idea?

[desert vale]

Hmm. If their was a fifth magical tradition. Dungeons.

[warped orbit]

good if you don't use the recent errata that makes it not work anymore

[tight flare]

Ok... What's that errata about?

[turbid dagger]

I believe Allie is referring to the inability to both Amp a spell and use it in a Spellstrike now?
Before that imaginary weapon magus was essentially the meta

[tight flare]

Riiight

Any other good suggestions for an L2 magus who wants to take a dedication?

[turbid dagger]

I have a few recs but some have weird lore implications
Blessed One gives an extra focus point and out of combat healing
Fighter gives Reactive Strike to help keep people in spellstrike range
And tbh, most caster dedis for more slots and focus points is smart

[rustic cape]

Blessed One's an extremely good pickup, Exemplar does obvious stuff

[warped orbit]

Cleric is good if you have the Wis

[tight flare]

I don't

🙁

[wraith snow]

Campfire Chronicler gives you access to domain spells at 4 without a WIS requirement

Sorc for the new Aesir bloodline from Battlecry also works if your goal is just a focus spell that targets AC

[tight flare]

Exemplar sounds cool as heck reading the class description

[clever cobalt]

Its very fun

[vital kiln]

Is 1e's Butchering Axe worth taking a feat for? Mostly just want it for that Nuts From Berk fantasy of swinging a gigantic fucknuts sword around.

[trail nova]

It’s one of the better exotic weapons. If you’re doing size stacking stuff, probably worth it?

[novel merlin]

Go look up vital strike large weapon builds

[surreal basin]

Idea for a boss fight where my players are gonna go up against the like…. It’s hard to explain b it, malformed half awake form of a god

The god having a main body, which is mythic (the party is not) and then body parts that aren’t mythic, that drop things the party can use to gain mythic points to push through its resistances/other shit?

[vital kiln]

I dig it, seems rather Kefka-esque

Not the roach guy mind you, the clown guy

Makes me think of the final form he takes, where you sort of climb up through various boss fights to get to the real man himself

[desert vale]

I dislike the remastered Brine Dragon. I prefer the acid and salt

[clever cobalt]

https://store.paizo.com/pathfinder-lost-omens-cheliax-infernal-inheritance/ Lost Omens Cheliax incoming

Also a 11-20 Darklands adventure

https://store.paizo.com/pathfinder-adventure-path-vaultlines/

[echo briar]

There was also a fae book listed, but it was delisted.

Probably was put there as a mistake

[vital kiln]

Is it possible to make a Magus in 1e that uses a two-hander and heavier armor

[warped orbit]

two hander is definitely possible

[vital kiln]

...well, I know you can make a heavier armor one, particularly with the one feat that reduces arcane spell failure chance

God I hate arcane spell failure

Just feels like they're spitting on gishes

[vital kiln]

I assume via archetype

[warped orbit]

I thought it just works, but that might have been an archetype thing I forgot about

[vital kiln]

It would in theory, but then spell combat would just kinda be worthless

[warped orbit]

possible you need to be Sword Saint?
but IIRC it's Spell Combat that doesn't work without a free hand, Spellstrike should still work

[vital kiln]

Armored Battlemage seems it would work

Removes spell combat but it gives you the "you don't suffer arcane spell failure anymore" perks earlier

Also removes weapon buffing in favor of armor buffing

[warped orbit]

ah if you don't have Spell Combat then 2h is also no issue

so that might be it then for what you want

[vital kiln]

Aye, especially because I wanna go for a heavier-armored lad

The idea is really just "Nuts From Berk but he learned how to sling a spell or two"

[wary yoke]

2E's different magus subtypes enabling something different than one-handed only is one of the few things I like about the 2E magus

[vital kiln]

Aye, 2e's magus feels more fun to me

Inexorable Iron go brrt

...god I wanna play in a 2e game at some point

[wary yoke]

Oh, the combat is a lot more fun, with a few quibbles mostly exacerbated by me facing a ton of reactive strike-using enemies, but I'll never get used to the spellcasting

[vital kiln]

I wanna play a Magus at some point whose favorite cantrip is Timber

Spellstrike someone by smacking them upside the head with an entire goddamn tree

https://tenor.com/view/god-of-war-kratos-cat-stupid-tree-gif-14449883692431664425

[vital kiln]

Anyway. Losing out on my weapon enhancement would hurt, but tbh I value survivability more than damage anyway.

...that and I plan on building around the Butchering Axe

[fossil dome]

Saaaaame

[wary yoke]

Have you already looked at the Bloodrager? I'm pretty sure they have a heavy armor archetype

[turbid dagger]

https://downloads.paizo.com/Hellbreakers_PlayersGuide.pdf Its here!

[chrome harbor]

This week in pathfinder:
We get annoyed by a Shemhazian demon, at its big sacrificial site that's got it's true name written on the altar. After two rounds of combat, it decides that it does not want to die this day, and greater-teleport's out.
-# At which point I stepped into my magnificient mansion pocket dimension, and cast Greater Planar binding to reel the asshole back in, because brother we've got things to settle

[trail nova]

Lmao, greater planar binding instead of a simple teleportation block is hilarious.

[vital kiln]

They do, they just don't have quite enough emphasis on magic for me

Not really a consistent piece of your toolkit, more just something you whip out every now and again

[vital kiln]

What race would y'all recommend for a 1e magus

[chrome harbor]

In my defense, I'm a Sorceress and I don't know dimensional achor 😛

[eager mountain]

new darklands adventure

a 10 to 20 too

[wraith snow]

I was considering a Darklands adventure as a homebrew thing for my group

Curious to see what they do with it

[eager mountain]

fleshwarp

[warped orbit]

hand

[eager mountain]

new starfinder ancestry

tiny psychic slug

[novel merlin]

I would just do a oversized weapon vital strike martial or half caster with a couple levels on anything to get gravity weapon

Vital strike is a very solid path for beeeeg sword

[echo briar]

That is quite clearly a snail

[eager mountain]

yeah i know

[echo briar]

Very interesting they don’t seemed to have mentioned the fey book they spoiled today

[vital kiln]

Oversized weapon?

[echo briar]

I was sure they wanted it to be a surprise for this stream

[novel merlin]

https://rpgbot.net/pathfinder/characters/vital_strike/

A medium character can wield a large 1h weapon in 2 hands at -2. If you take a bastard sword with exotic weapon proficiency then you can wield it in one hand so you can 2hand a large one

Then you use lead blades, enlarge person, or the impact enchantment to make it count as even larger

[vital kiln]

Can you not wield large two-handers?

[novel merlin]

Not as a medium character

Unless you're like one specific type of barbarian

[vital kiln]

Hm

Might be better to just invest in the Butchering Axe then

Seems simpler ultimately

...I mean, yeah, I'd need insane amounts of strength to wield it, but eh

3d6 damage at the same penalty you'd take for wielding an oversized bastard sword, for the cost of either a particular ancestry or a feat, and you can eventually get rid of the penalty completely once you get some gains

...also, thought that occurs to me, isn't an oversized katana just a nodachi

[balmy orchid]

A nodachi is a katana because it is a sword made in Japan

[desert vale]

New Brine Dragon feels like Sea dragon instead of Brine dragon

[vital kiln]

Elaborate

[desert vale]

Looked it up. And they have mostly deep ocean themed abilities. Crushing breath and stuff

Pressurized pool, benthic bite, crushing breath.

And. I like the acid of the old version better

[vital kiln]

Hm

Yeah that does feel more ocean-y

[oak pilot]

are they themed on like, deep-sea brine pools?

[desert vale]

Dont know for certain. Just looking at the Archives of Nethys sight. I am rather fone of Brine Dragons so I like to keep up to date on Brine Dragon news.

[vital kiln]

Is there any reason to go for a Titan Fighter with a Large greatsword as opposed to just getting Butchering Axe proficiency

Same damage die, same penalty to attack rolls but you can overcome it with enough Strength, I guess it has a lower crit range but it also has x3 crits

[surreal basin]

takes an extra feat, hard to find look

loot

[novel merlin]

What is the goal of the build? Vital strike? Full attacks with pounce? What class?

[desert vale]

Goblin upper class twits

[eager mountain]

https://youtu.be/uT9P0ar79rk

[tight flare]

My kappa trivial paid off

Playing Seasons of Ghost and I finally had use for my formerly useless trivia

_>

[warped orbit]

did you make them bow?

[tight flare]

Gave 'em cucumbers

[warped orbit]

ah, the other kappa thing

[tight flare]

But really this might be my favourite AP yet

It feels like a jrpg somehow

Also the GM is really good at adding his own spice to the thing

[turbid dagger]

Every time I've got into SoG the game crash and burned very quickly, but I do want to give it another try eventually

[desert vale]

I'd like to give it a shot myself.

[balmy orchid]

We're doing session 2 of SoG now c:

[tribal steeple]

I have to stay committed to NOT playing a spellcaster of any kind if I do ever end up playing Season of Ghosts. I say, the #1 candidate class being a Commander, the INT martial.

[tight flare]

Our group is, uh... Let's see
-Human Fighter
-Hungerseed Magus of the unfurling cloth (me)
-Human Inventor (with puppet things)
-Tengu Spiritist
-Kitsune Bard
-Human Alchemist

Inventors are really cool

[warped orbit]

seven people?

whoof

[balmy orchid]

Our group is Human (Dhampir Summoner)
Human Monk
Pixie Sorcerer
Naga Cleric

[tight flare]

Yeah it's a big group, but we've managed to play lots of APs this way successfully
-Abomination Vault

-Curse of the Crimson Throne

-Stolen Fate

[true delta]

Ok, this talk is making me want to continue running my campaign.

[balmy orchid]

Im not wrong

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=934

This is just kamehameha

[tribal steeple]

Yeah.

[warped orbit]

It is

[tribal steeple]

there's an arcane/primal version too
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=927

[balmy orchid]

Im undead summoner so I need it to be divine

[rustic cape]

Season of Ghosts is probably my #1 AP at this time

[balmy orchid]

Our second session was good

We almost died

[warped orbit]

many such cases

[eager mountain]

SRO for starfinder

Getting them in October as an ancestry

Also the spell “ Summon Giant Robot”

[tight flare]

Inner Radiance Torrent is very monk-coded

[frank crystal]

What happened?

[balmy orchid]

||Many gremlins spotted us||

[frank crystal]

Oh no

Horrifying

[balmy orchid]

The good news is that they rolled absolute dogshit on damage for several turns in a row

1d6 damage but all of them just rolled 1

[vital kiln]

What archetypes would you lot recommend for an Inexorable Iron magus

[warped orbit]

Something that gives you a good focus spell

Cleric or that one Storyteller archetype are good for that now

[tight flare]

When I played an ineroxable iron magus I picked wizard dedication

Because it's really nice to have more spell slots 🙂

[tight flare]

What's a good focus spell for magus?
(keeping my eyes open, since I'm playing a cloth magus at the moment)

[warped orbit]

big attack spell you can Spellstrike with

Psychic used to be the go to, but that doesn't work anymore now

(unless you ignore that errata)

so now usually Fire or Decay domain are the ones you go for

[vital kiln]

Related, there any 1st or 2nd level permanent items you lot would recommend for Magus

Starting at third level and I'm not sure what I wanna pick here

[warped orbit]

low level magic items are not that amazing yet

your second level item should definitely be a potency rune though

[tight flare]

Fire Ray?

[warped orbit]

yep

Fire Ray and Withering Grasp are the actual spell names IIRC

[tight flare]

Do you actually get cleric domain spells when picking dedication?
I can't find any mention of it

[warped orbit]

not from the dedication, but you can pick it up as another feat IIRC

you pick Domain Initiate as a Cleric feat

which gives you the initial spell

[tight flare]

Riiight that makes sense

[turbid dagger]

Well, imaginary weapon is still a commendable cantrip spellstrike option, but yeah in that case you are looking at psychic more for a good resourceless spellstrike and focus points for confluxes

[warped orbit]

you can't amp it anymore, and without the amp you might as well just use Gouging Claw instead

[turbid dagger]

Mhm, you can't amp it anymore, but it's still force damage on your baby spellstrikes
Your cantrip cuts, as it were

[warped orbit]

1st level items your options are pretty meager
I would probably honestly just recommend taking lump sum, buying a potency rune, and spending the rest on consumables or saving

[vital kiln]

Roight

[tight flare]

Fire fleric seems ok to take a dedication into for my magus, but I'm not sure how appropriate it is given that she wasn't religious at all for level 1...

Playing seasons of ghosts

(Hungerseed)

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=300

This is another option for getting Domain spells

[tight flare]

Oh that must be the "storyteller" mentioned earlier

[warped orbit]

Yeah

I forgot the name

[tight flare]

This might be a stupid question, but spells that require a strike allow you do deal normal strike damage with it, right?

Home among mulberry-etc spell, for example, requires a strike

I take it you still cause damage with that strike as normal

[surreal basin]

Ooo ooo
My group has done:
extinction curse
Ruby Phoenix
Bloodlords
Gatewalkers
Stolen Fate
Half of strength of thousands
Starting kingmaker

[tight flare]

My previous group also did Kingmaker before I moved over to the new group

We made an attempt at Rise of the Runelords but the GM burned out from PF1

That's a massive list though 😄

The RotR campaign taught me the utterly stupid and tilt inducing confusion interaction

Whereby two people who are confused can get stuck in a retaliation loop

[true delta]

How frequently do you play?

[surreal basin]

Once a week, occasionally twice, for about 3 or 4 years now

[true delta]

Nice

[tight flare]

Same here
We play tuesdays and thursdays.
On tuesdays we play PF2 and on thursday I run Lancer

[surreal basin]

[fossil dome]

Jealousssss

[tight flare]

It's awesome

We used to run a 5E campaign on thursdays, but that ended a year ago

So I suggested we try a short lancer adventure

And we're here a year later still going

[fossil dome]

I want a group for, well, anything

I'm almost getting to the point of settling for.....

shudder

5e homebrew

[tight flare]

Nuooo

5E can be good with a good gm, but I am really something of a hater of that system

[warped orbit]

yes, you deal normal Strike damage

[tight flare]

Great. We suspected as much and the GM ruled that way

But now I know for certain then

[fossil dome]

Same

But The Craving™ is stronk

[true delta]

I‘ll likely end my campaign. We‘ve finished volume 1 of Quest for the Frozen Flame. And while I have some fun ideas for volume 2, and would love to play theough volume 3, sessions are just too infrequent to warrant the effort (only Sundays, maybe once a month, and never the whole group). I‘m the kind of person who needs to see progress to stay motivated. Anyway, that’s my rant for today.

[tight flare]

That sounds frustrating

[true delta]

It is! Thank you!

[surreal basin]

oh yeah once a month is

roughly

[balmy orchid]

This is an entirely seprate campaign idea

what's the best way to play a transforming character

I feel like the concept I'm mulling around would coincidentally also be a Summoner but I know pf2e synthesis summoners barely exist anymore

[tribal steeple]

Wildshape Druid, or one of the ancestries that does it in some way

I've never seen battle forms used seriously though so idk how effective they are. My sorcerer used Ooze Form once and this is more flavor than practical

[warped orbit]

transforming how?

[warped orbit]

they're okay as a backup option, but not something you wanna do primarily

[balmy orchid]

The idea is "I break out of bindings and begin mauling people to death with my claws" and anything related to such

[warped orbit]

hmm, yeah that's kinda difficult to do currently

[rustic cape]

The werecreature archetype, imo

[tight flare]

What happens if you spellstrike with a spell that involves a physical attack, like home among mulberry leaves?

[wraith snow]

A player in a game I was in went all in on them using Fighter Dedication on a Druid but it wasn't amazing even with the extra feats to support it

[rustic cape]

I’ve seen druid dedication on fighter and …

The build worked, but

It was very fragile

Tbh the best battle form in the game is Dragon Barbarian’s 16th level feat

Which is a little sad since

[warped orbit]

Fighter with Wild Morph works, but it's still kinda ehh

[rustic cape]

16th level

If I really wanted to do a shapeshifter, I would either do dragon barb with modified flavor, or werecreature

[tribal steeple]

Part of the turn off of battle forms for me is that it seems like not even Paizo knows how they're supposed to work in some ways

[eager mountain]

i made myself a new starfinder token

of mah gnome.

[tight flare]

I need help with feats. We just hit level 2. I play an unfurling cloth magus

Seasons of Ghosts

I was planning on going campfire-whossname, but it's uncummon and everything rare and uncummon is verboten

[rustic cape]

Are you specifically looking for a dedication?

[tight flare]

Probably yeah, unless you can convince me to go for a class feat

I might pick force fang, but I'm not too impressed with it

[rustic cape]

A caster dedication is basically always a good pickup for magus, so that would be sort of the baseline

[tight flare]

Yeah that might be an idea

[rustic cape]

How's your wisdom?

[tight flare]

Frighteningly low (+0)

[rustic cape]

Aha

No animist, then

Int?

Investigator is always an option, and lets you be a little heavier on skills

[tight flare]

In is +3 afair

What does animist do? Not familiar with that one

[surreal basin]

Like you’ve been told you can’t take ANYTHING uncommon or rare?

[tight flare]

Yah

[surreal basin]

That’s wild

[tight flare]

We have some strict houserules

They're kindof annoying tbqh

But we're six players + 1 gm so I think he wants to rein in some stuff

[surreal basin]

I will refrain from comment lmao

[tight flare]

We have another houserule that's even worse

And we used to have an absolutely fucking TERRIBLE houserule in Abomination Vault

It was hilariously terrible

So the bad houserule we currently have:
Instead of hero points being awarded each session, players roll a check at the beginning of the session and the player to roll the highest gets a hero point

ONLY the player rolling the highest

If two players roll equal, they reroll

[surreal basin]

I’m Kay that sucks yeah

[tight flare]

You haven't heard the worst

So... If a player is maxed out on hero points, they don't get one

But nobody else does either

[surreal basin]

Right ye- what

Was that the old rule or

The current one

[tight flare]

That's the CURRENT rule

[surreal basin]

Brother do you have to play in this game

[tight flare]

So for the really bad one

lol

[surreal basin]

This sounds like a form of psychological torture

[tight flare]

The old one, which was tried temporarily at the end of abomination vault, had a super rare exception rule

[tribal steeple]

More grounded, it sounds like something to ask "who is having fun with this rule"

[tight flare]

IFFFFF you got a hero point while maxed out, you could get multiple of them beyond the actual max.
But you had to roll a 20 on the check.

AND, this is where it gets bad, if you get FOUR hero points

You gain a level

[surreal basin]

WHAT

[tight flare]

Yes. It created a terrible incentive where a few players stacked max hero points without using them

Thereby costing other players hero points

[surreal basin]

Okay so your GM just doesn’t or didn’t understand pathfinder 2e lmao

[tight flare]

Aside from this absolute blunder, the GM is pretty great

xD

[surreal basin]

Okay so can interrogate the uncommon thing more

*can I

Because I’m kinda fascinated but

[tight flare]

Go on

[surreal basin]

So are you not even allowed to ask

Like is it just straight up impossible to play gunslinger ever in this persons games

God forbid exemplar

[tight flare]

No. I don't think the rule applies to classes, only to feats and anything else

Because we did have a gunslinger early on in abomination vault

[surreal basin]

Have they given like

Any reason

[tight flare]

I really need to ask

[warped orbit]

What?

Do you get awarded any hero points during session?

[tight flare]

No, there are only two ways to get hero points

By levelling up, and by being lucky with the initial session roll

[turbid dagger]

I'd be wondering why I'm playing in this game but I don't know the whole sitch

[tight flare]

Pretty much everything about the campaign is great except this annoying rule

[warped orbit]

that's incredibly weird

have they said why they want to do this?

[turbid dagger]

That honestly surprises me, but I'm glad!
Weird vaguely domineering houserules are usually dark tidings for a GM's quality

[tight flare]

Yeah, because we are so many players he wants to restrain our power a bit

[warped orbit]

like I'll be real, you are probably getting less hero points per level than you'd normally get per session

[tight flare]

Yeah for sure

[true delta]

https://tenor.com/view/got-fewer-grammar-ftfy-stannis-gif-14039519

(I am sorry.)

[balmy orchid]

Does Pathfinder 2e have any mega dungeons?

[turbid dagger]

There are two APs that consist entirely of delving one dungeon

Abomination Vaults, and Shades Of Blood

Abomination Vaults is highly lauded as one of the Great APs

And also has one of the best foundry modules

So popular in fact it's getting both a video game and novel adaptation

[balmy orchid]

Hmmmmmm

[fossil dome]

And has a 5e conversion

Officially

[balmy orchid]

I need this not

[turbid dagger]

I am running abomination vaults, and can very much recommend it!
Out of the vault stuff is pretty free form and has few guide rails, but the Vaults themselves are very well designed

It very much feels like climbing through the 500 year old husk of a giant fortress

[tight flare]

Wait what AV is getting a video game?

[fossil dome]

Gaaaaaaaaah

I need a PF grouuuup

[turbid dagger]

Was announced ages ago but yeah!
It is, unfortunately, not a CRPG
It's a Diablo-like

[tight flare]

Uhh oh that's less interesting

me imagines a wrath of the righteous AV mod

[turbid dagger]

Can play the wizard, cleric, barbarian, andddddd
Ranger?
Ranger or rogue
Iconics

Abomination Vaults as a 2e CRPG would indeed be Peak

[fossil dome]

Any 2e CRPG would be peak

Tbh

[turbid dagger]

Trueeeee
Dragons Demand...... one day

[fossil dome]

Honestly

2e Kingmaker CRPG,.with proper SimCity mechanics

[turbid dagger]

Id for real just play like
A greatsword fighter
And be happy about it in a 2e game

[balmy orchid]

See part of my desire to ask

Is that i was wondering if I could steal something like it and make my own "basically the entire setting is just this dungeon"

[tight flare]

It's kinda funny that the iconic ranger is a dwarf

[surreal basin]

Notable

Do not play or run AV as your first path finder thing

It is brutally difficult

[tight flare]

Haha
Our ranger lost 3 pets
We had a near TPK several times
Golems are absolutely terrifying

We lost, uh, 5-6 characters

[tribal steeple]

My group recently did Tomb of Horrors as a side-content thing. It was awful, would not recommend.

[balmy orchid]

Im currently in a Season of Ghost campaign

[tight flare]

Tomb of Horrors is not side-content appropriate... It's basically a character killing machine.

[balmy orchid]

It will probably be my third Rodeo

[surreal basin]

Fair

[tribal steeple]

Normally yes, except we fed lots of summoned things to check traps. It mostly turned out to be an unengaging slog of eye-rolling bullshit.

[tight flare]

My party ran into ALL the traps lol

One PC survived to the end

[surreal basin]

It’s just worth mentioning because people recommend it as a first adventure for some reason

And it’s REALLY bad

At that

[tight flare]

Funny because it was our first PF2 adventure actually... AV I mean

Stolen Fate was a lot, uh, easier

[surreal basin]

Yeah

[tight flare]

AV was absolutely brutal at times

I spent the whole final battle stunned

[turbid dagger]

I'm running it as my first PF2e campaign, with two experienced players and two newbies
It's going smoothly so far but maybe that's luck?
They have ran from two fights but the only time a player's actually gotten close to death was due to a freak crit from a trap
IMO it being a character mulcher is overhyped

[tight flare]

Our group kept getting absolutely stomped at times

In particular a certain golem fight

We ran away from it TWICE

[surreal basin]

The early will o wisps are also infamous

[tight flare]

Oh yes those were terrifying

In didn't help that the golem rules in pre-remaster 2E are a bit weird
They're not clear HOW immune to magic they actually are

[turbid dagger]

Huh.......

In my case once my party asked after their immunities I listed the exact spells they were susceptible too
On the grounds that any writings on will o wisps would note them

But yeah we've had-
A cleric of desna
A waterfowl monk
A thief Rogue
And a bard
For most of our run through
The bard was recently replaced by an aberration sorcerer and the monk has rebuilt as a spirit barbarian
And they've been fine 95% of the time

The major heat points have beennnnn
-||Volluk||
-||The Voidglutton||
-||A time when they came into the 2nd floor backwards by a weird entrance, pissed off the morlock king, and had to run from all the morlocks on the level after he shouted for reinforcements||
And they just ran those times

[tight flare]

I don't remember the second heat point you mention... The first one was terrifying though. Persistent damage in PF2 is naaaasty

[fossil dome]

Domain Expansion: Forbidden Technique!........ Hit da bricks

[turbid dagger]

What level are you on? It's hard to tie the name to a face, it's a weird obscure monster that I struggled to remember the name of myself

It's the uhhhhh
||Super will-o-wisp made of eyes with the floating hands||

[tight flare]

Huhhhhhh I have a vague memory of it... Can you spoil where you fight it?
(i've finished the whole thing a year ago)

[turbid dagger]

||Belcorras private quarters hidden behind the impossible stairs, where you get the brief visions of her Being Evillllllll||

[tight flare]

Oh god yes I remember

[turbid dagger]

Yeah!
It's the one people always complain about
It WAS very dangerous but my team escaped, waited for a level up, then came back and took it down

[warped orbit]

Sandpoint is I believe also kinda mega dungeon?

[turbid dagger]

Oh fascinating

Oh and Crown Of The Kobold King is another One Dungeon Adventure, but it's dungeon is smaller (since it's an adventure not an AP)

[solar thorn]

The ||Void Glutton|| on floor ||4|| will absolutely wreck your shit the first time you meet it

It's intentionally hard to reach but holy shit
Also it is very good at blocking the entrance and TPK'ing

[balmy orchid]

Finally understand how Summoner action economy works

I get 3+1 actions
Not four
Specifically
3 actions +1

[warped orbit]

Correct yes

Main difference is mostly that you can't do two different 2a activities
Which would be nice if they could

[balmy orchid]

Yeah, hence why I dont get 4

I get 3+1

[rustic cape]

Yep, you can do 2-1-1, 3-1, or 1-1-1-1, but never 2-2

[balmy orchid]

I may also switch my eidolon from dex to strength

Since I think the vibe is more smashy than sneaky

[surreal basin]

the jumpy magus in our party

[turbid dagger]

Aloof Firmament?

[surreal basin]

yeg

[turbid dagger]

Niiiiice

[tight flare]

How viable is starlit sentinel with magus?

They have a focus spell that seems OK for spell strike

[wraith snow]

It's fine, doesn't have the same benefit as Fire Ray/Withering Grasp/Barbed Spear etc where the spell targets AC so Spellstrike is just one roll, and action econ on a Magus might not leave a lot of room for some of the other options

Arcane Cascade plus the ranged force attacks is kind of cute

[tight flare]

Yeah I didn't get the fire ray-enabling dedication approved

Where is barbed spear from?

Ah sorc apparently

So stupid question here possibly. Force fang seems like a useless spell to spell strike with since it is one action
This means that spell strike + necessary recharge of spell strke = 3 actions

Vs 2 actions for a normal strike and casting force fang normally

[wraith snow]

You're not including MAP in the math there

If you attack and force fang individually whichever you do second is much less likely to succeed, if you're fighting something with a high AC it's almost certainly better to just make one attack per turn

That said, if you're going to make a spell strike, unless force damage is desired for some reason the real catch is that there's seldom a reason to use Force Fang over Grasping Claw

Ah, wait, sorry I'm silly, Force Fang is the auto-hit one

In that case: No, there's no point to using it for a spellstrike

[tight flare]

Right

Clarification question: How does spell strike work with spells that involve a strike?

For example home among mulberry leaves has a requirement that you roll a strike as an effect of the spell

[wraith snow]

One attack roll is used for all effects

[tight flare]

Yeah, but I'm thinking about the damage here

Haml causes damage from the strike only

So does that mean that when spellstriking using haml, you deal 1 strike damage for the spellstrike, 1 strike damage for haml, and then the additional haml effect?

[wraith snow]

I would assume it's all one strike, so not much function to it

[tight flare]

Right

Is it a deliberate decision to make all the magus focus spells difficult to spell strike with? -_-

[wraith snow]

imo yes though idk if it was ever stated

[tight flare]

I'm trying to figure out what to do with level 2. Thought about taking a dedication, but the useful one that gives fire ray is blocked

It seems I'll have to settle for wizard dedication again, but that's what I did with my last magus too...