Pathfinder

[wary yoke]

So this may be my warrior-philosopher's first chance to match wits with someone that isn't an ignorant, brainwashed moron

[frank crystal]

Chat, y’all think there’s in universe basketball discourse for members of the pathfinder society?

[clever cobalt]

Probably

Dunno what it would be though

[rustic cape]

Hm, other than a caster, what would actually work as a magus dual class? Just from an action economy perspective.

[wraith snow]

Fighter is the obvious because it's already the build-a-bear class and Magus doesn't usually care much about their reactions

[rustic cape]

Exemplar things

[rustic cape]

Doesn't mesh well with the metastrikes, though :|

I guess you can ignore those

[wraith snow]

Plus some are still usable

[clever cobalt]

Psychic

[rustic cape]

That's a caster :P

[wraith snow]

Sudden Charge is never bad if you need to reposition, and you'll need to recharge eventually

[clever cobalt]

Fair

Hmm

[rustic cape]

Rogue has a lot of passives, come to think of it

[warped orbit]

Fighter is of course good just for the accuracy, as always

Rogue gives you lots of skills and some useful passives and reactions

[wraith snow]

Yeah, just limits you to smaller weapons so it doesn't quite work as well if you're aiming for Biggest Bonk which certainly describes a non-zero amount of Magus players

[rustic cape]

Laughing Shadow, I think

Alternately, go Avenger rogue

Big Swod

[warped orbit]

Avenger does have the additional issue of needing to setup more

[rustic cape]

Yeah

I'd be inclined to do laughing shadow

[wraith snow]

Inventor could work. Both want INT-investment, Overdrive is only one action, armor invention is almost never bad.

[rustic cape]

Yeah true, and Inventor has a lot of good passive stuff

A riding Construct Inventor could be kinda fun

[turbid dagger]

So it's just for a specific subclass but guardian would be lovely for sparkling targe
Or champion for most subclasses
Magus has a very unused reaction and would like more beef

[rustic cape]

True, true

[surreal basin]

Okay

For a narrative reward ability

So on par with like, a relic gift or smth

What do yall think abooooout

Alchemical Amplification [one-action] (alchemical) Frequency once per day; Effect: It becomes quickened for 1d4 rounds. It can use this extra action to Step, Stride, or Strike.

[turbid dagger]

I would say that's fine
If they roll 1 it will be action neutral 😭

[surreal basin]

I’m actually probably gonna make it once an hour

[frank crystal]

So my player’s new character is a Harrower/Ritualist spinner of threads Witch

Oh my god he has a 6th rank slow spell

Oh no

[clever cobalt]

Oh yes

[frank crystal]

Making all my encounters suspiciously 11 enemies

[warped orbit]

https://store.paizo.com/pathfinder-beginner-box-new/

the new Beginner Box is coming in May

pregens this time are Barbarian, Monk, Bard, Sorcerer

[turbid dagger]

Yooo that's a nice setup

[warped orbit]

it's a good selection I think, yeah

Monk is probably the one I'm the most wibbly on, but they also work pretty well for something Dex-y and flexible

[turbid dagger]

Monk feels very plug and play honestly
Quibble about top of the line effectiveness as you please but for a new player it's stance up, flurry, and vibe

[warped orbit]

yeah they work just fine

my only thing about Monk is mostly that I think it might be difficult for new players to actually make use of the extra action econ Flurry provides

but I guess you can always just skirmish

[turbid dagger]

The description of the box on the store seems to imply it wants the monk player to be striding in and out, yeah
It'd be good if it gives advice to that effect

[warped orbit]

they probably will

the BB had little handouts with pregen tactics before IIRC

explaining some of your key features

[desert vale]

Now have. Star finder gm core and starfinder alien core. But not player core.

[fossil dome]

Oops

[tight flare]

Anyone here tried the unfurling brocade magus?

[warped orbit]

Bard ultimate

[warped orbit]

from what I've heard, it's fairly good as a maneuver focused Magus

[turbid dagger]

I keep wanting to make one but can't vibe with having to wear A Breastplate with the magic cloth class

[tribal steeple]

Synesthesia is such a nasty spell

[turbid dagger]

I have something terrifying to report
I've finally got my mitts on that Warframe X Starfinder book

The pregens for that? The protoframes
I was very curious how they were going to build warframes using Starfinder character options

It turns out they
Didn't
Do
That
They all just have bespoke abilities baked in like NPC statblocks

[warped orbit]

oh lmao

that is kinda the funniest option tbh

and honestly, I don't dislike it for pregens

does probably not exactly give a proper impression of the game on people though

[turbid dagger]

Yeahhhh, but also, if you're playing the Warframe tie-in module as your introduction to the system something may have gone wrong

[warped orbit]

If its anywhere, I think one-shot pregens is the place to just give people wacky unique stuff

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee

[wary yoke]

Which pregens are there?

[wary yoke]

Also that is an interesting interpretation of Energy Vampire

[turbid dagger]

Lettie, Aoi, Amir, and Arthur

[fast hill]

cant wait for spanish to be permanently on the pathfinder/starfinder foundry forever now

[novel merlin]

Energy vampire is the best single action ability in the game possibly

Looool

[turbid dagger]

What I find funny is lettie gets spanish but aoi does not get japanese

[warped orbit]

look we already have Russian canonically

[tight flare]

This is my issue as well. I might just chose to play something else because of flavour

[turbid dagger]

A justification I've tried to work with is take Lattice Weave and flavor it as More Magic Cloth

[tight flare]

That might work

[surreal basin]

(You can also just flavor the breastplate however u want probably lol)

Wait

Bladed scarf is finesse

Just wear light armor???

[warped orbit]

you presumably want Str for maneuvers

#BringBackFinesseManeuvers

[tight flare]

Yeah you really want str for the maneuvers

It's actually a bit weird that a finesse weapon incentivises strength

So I'll put the scarf on hold

[wary yoke]

Aoi is Canadian

[tight flare]

What other weird weapons are there around?

[warped orbit]

weird in what way?

[tight flare]

Unusual

Spicy

[turbid dagger]

I did not know that, but she also constantly says phrases in japanese

[surreal basin]

Tbh I would still not be that uncomfortable having my starting strength at like

A 14 or smth

[turbid dagger]

I get you, but with the subclass that is all about athletics, I feel like I'm gonna go crazy if I do 4 dex 2 str
Like what are we doing here 😭

[tight flare]

Planning a character for Season of Ghosts

Magus is pretty fun (played one last campaign) and the scarf caught my eye

[surreal basin]

Yeah the scarf one is not too good

But that’s not too good for magus which is still great

[tight flare]

Maybe I'll make an armoured muscle-magus with scarf

It feels wrong, but it's all flavour I guess

[steel blade]

trying to decide what class would work best for a meteor hammer wielder that does trick shots and dances with it
Warrior Bard and Fighter feel like the frontrunners but both are lacking on one front or the other

Unfortunately despite being a weapon that benefits imo from careful control it isn't finesse so it wouldn't work with Rogue or Swashbuckler

Well, it'd work with Ruffian I guess

Or an Avenger of Scal

[tight flare]

There's a human feat that lets you borrow cantrips from other traditions, does that work with the psychic cantrips?

[rustic cape]

No

[tight flare]

Aww

[rapid wagon]

Blood lords spoilers ||we're at Nathnelma's townhome and god damn this fight is brutal. Not actually sure how we'd win this. 2 players down in the first few rounds and no enemies defeated||

||My character might flee cause it seems pretty impossible to come out on top of this fight with our party against 3 wraiths and 2 mummy valets||

[frank crystal]

Any vehicles that are good for like, a tank?

Not the build but an armored vehicle with a big gun on it

[wraith snow]

War Wagon but it needs to be pulled, Steam Giant, Titanic Stomper

[frank crystal]

Thanks

[surreal basin]

Meteor hammer fighter is god tier

[steel blade]

yeah most of that posting was between sets at the gym and then i got home and realized rogue doesnt work very well for a meteor hammer but fighter has a decent number of feats that would work for it

[tight flare]

"Tanks", you mean

[desert vale]

Second session of pathfinder 2e beginner box.complete.

Two players were out but the pattner of one of the remaining players joined

The undead proved difficult due to some poor decisions.

And I misread their damage

And. Then they encpuntered the first group pf kobolds and convinced tjem to let them pass.

[wary yoke]

Post-encounter with a Phistophilus and my Vow of Mortality Exemplar continues to be the only character with a moral backbone

Only I and another character identified it as a devil (since fiends are vanishingly rare), and I was the only one that seemed to care it’s an unholy monster with a bunch of captive souls

[frank crystal]

Fuck

[rotund geode]

Conspiracy Dragon that when you put too much pressure on it/the players start catching up actually decides to put its horde to action

All at once

Like it just starts flying over the city dropping copies of its burn book and causing riots in the streets

Its even better if its not just about nobles either

Everyone’s secrets are now publically available, and some of them might just be lies and gossip but enough of them aren’t that everything is going crazy

In general I really like it when a desperate enough dragon will actually start using the resources it has gathered

Its just a very unique situation with conspiracy dragons since they collect secrets and rumors

My horde of exposè google docs

[wary yoke]

Considering retiring my Exemplar and playing something else in my in-person campaign. OOC I'm tired of getting ridiculed for playing my character, and IC he's tired of his allies preventing him from doing his mission, and for them being in his opinion moral cowards

I could roll up someone less upstanding

[warped orbit]

why are they ridiculing your character?

[wary yoke]

There's the inevitable reddit atheist jokes, and he was compared to a Chihuahua trying to take on a big dog when I was being aggressive towards the phistophilus

When a devil is the platonic ideal of what he's built to fight

[warped orbit]

that seems pretty rude of your group tbqh

[wary yoke]

Yeah, I'm going to talk to them next time I see them

[echo briar]

So apparently, we aren’t getting any fall errata because the devs are too busy working, because next year is going to be an extremely big year.

However, they haven’t actually announced anything that big yet. What are they working on that’s so big, but they also need to keep it a secret for now?

I’m starting to think the impossible playtest isn’t for one book, but two

[wary yoke]

Still holding out for a Secrets of Magic revamp

[rotund geode]

Revised summoner woul go hard

[warped orbit]

it is coming I believe

though Dark Archives is next IIRC

do hope they won't nerf Psychic archetype much

[wary yoke]

Ooh, I am more excited for that

[warped orbit]

though we also don't super know what DA Revised will actually do

I'd assume Thaum won't change much, and Psychic will maybe get some tweaks

[fast hill]

https://bsky.app/profile/paizo.com/post/3ma7c7sduwo2s

Paizo (@paizo.com)

Malice lurks among the Leaves of Talhindir, and the livelihood of Ste Xinnith is in peril! Plunge into these adventures with new releases for Pathfinder and Starfinder Society!

buff.ly/b3MvkMN

Bluesky · Dec 17, 2025, 6:30 PM

[rustic cape]

Storm Spiral feels overcosted at 3 actions

[tribal steeple]

3 action overflow impulses are like that.

[warped orbit]

Berms deserves it, but yeah

[wraith snow]

It really, really does. I watched it deal over 150 dmg in an extreme encounter in my last session

[light gyro]

crit fail -> hero point -> crit fail

[wraith snow]

The classic

[clever cobalt]

Been there

[warped orbit]

you hate to see it

[surreal basin]

in my GM voice: love to see it

[woeful pecan]

Ugh I'm second guessing my choices

Initially my choice of patron for my Witch in Season of Ghosts was Spinner of Threads, but more and more the character is starting to feel like a primal caster rather than occult. Are there any primal patrons that would fit well here? Which tradition would complement the party (Ranger, Animist, Rogue) better?

[light gyro]

both occult and primal have overlaps with divine (animist), but im assuming rangers, if they cast at all, cast primal stuff

but then, i've heard SoG isn't particularly difficult combat-wise so i'd pick role-playing over combat efficiency

[wraith snow]

Rangers are pretty much entirely limited to Warden Focus Spells for casting, dedications aside

Plus iirc they mentioned that player is doing Flurry Ranger so probably not a concern

[surreal basin]

What’s some stuff Asmodeus could give a high level party he likes

[clever cobalt]

Ability to create contracts

He gave Thune that ability

[wraith snow]

Depending on party comp you could hand out some rituals

[surreal basin]

Fair yeah on both ends

The comp is wizard cleric gunslinger

[surreal basin]

Some of the more interesting boons im offering

[clever cobalt]

I wanna try finding a Kingmaker group again

but at the same time

all the games I've been have died after like, 5 sessions

[fossil dome]

I wanna find a KM group, too

[tribal steeple]

behold, two of a group of 4-5

[fossil dome]

Next, to find a Mutually Agreeable Time

[clever cobalt]

and a GM

[light gyro]

and a path

[frank crystal]

Chatroom, can I dual wield jezails with bayonets attached to them?

[steel blade]

I don't see why not. You wouldn't benefit from fatal aim while wielding them in one hand but otherwise there's no issues I don't think

[shrewd bane]

That's a fucking Hellsing moment I think

[frank crystal]

Fuck yah

[warped orbit]

You technically can't, because the Fatal Aim trait is very stupid

You can only use a Fatal Aim weapon one-handed while your other hand is free

[frank crystal]

Fuuuuuuuuuck

That sucks

What’s even the point then?

Grappling?

[warped orbit]

No that wouldn't work either probably, based on the wording of Fatal Aim

But yeah it's a bit silly

[frank crystal]

Why is it a trait then?

If you can’t do anything with the hand you save?

[warped orbit]

It’s possible to hold the stock of this weapon under one arm so you can fire it with a single hand as long as the other hand isn’t holding a weapon, shield, or anything else you would need to move and position, to ensure the weapon doesn’t slip out from under your arm. However, if you use both hands, the weapon can make fatal attacks. When you wield the weapon in two hands, it gains the fatal trait with the listed damage die. Holding the weapon underarm stably enough to fire is significantly more complicated than just releasing one hand from the weapon, so to switch between the two grips, you must do so with an Interact action rather than Releasing or as part of reloading.

And can't forget you can't just Release a Fatal Aim weapon either, you have to spend an Interact to go to one-handed grip

[frank crystal]

So is there any benefit to using a jezail one handed then just, using a pistol?

Like with that I get a whole hand I can use

And still use it as a weapon

[warped orbit]

Not if you don't plan on using it two-handed

If you just want a one-handed pistol, it's dueling pistol or clan pistol

[frank crystal]

I mean yah but for two handed guns isn’t the arquebus or showbad long rifle better?

[warped orbit]

arquebus has kickback

[wary yoke]

My friend tried to make a bullet dancer monk using jezails, my GM got on my case for informing him that's not actually how they work

[warped orbit]

which can be inconvenient if you don't wanna invest the 14 Str

and Shobhad has Volley

[wary yoke]

Volley suuuuucks

(also, your GM 100% has a right to tell you off if you want to use a Shobhad long rifle)

[warped orbit]

the Shobhad is pretty nice though otherwise

[wary yoke]

Because it's literally an alien weapon

[warped orbit]

flavor wise yeah, but mechanically it's totally fine tbh

it's just an arquebus that gets Backstabber in exchange for Volley
which is fairly questionable anyway

I guess the theoretical benefit of the Shobhad is also that it's silenced

[warped orbit]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9QAlv90FLPg

[tight flare]

Is there a "the complete guide to PF2 grappling" somewhere?

I'm thinking of playing an unfurling cloth magus and I've seen people mention the wrestler dedication

[turbid dagger]

Wrestler is cool but very weird on unfurling brocade
You need an unarmed attack for most wrestler stuff and most of unfurling brocades value is in having reach grapple on a weapon
So you want a reach unarmed attack as well, which is hard to get
You could do thlipit contestant and tail whip or tongue lash, but that's a whole other arch (if admittedly one that gives a lot of wrestler stuff)
Or you can do plant yaoguai and get morphic strike

Which is the optimal option but also a weird narrative concept to work with

[clever cobalt]

I had a dream about Pathfinder last night and all I can remember was someone getting Reactive Slathered after getting up from a massage chair

[woeful pecan]

I'm sorry reactive what?

[clever cobalt]

I dont remember much of the context either

Beyond them maybe being covered in sauce

[vocal ember]

sounds like somebody was hungry

[frank crystal]

Chat, one of my friends wants to make bayonetta, are there any better options then bullet dancer?

[turbid dagger]

There's a Summoner subclass in Summoners+ that's fairly clearly supposed to be Wicked Weave but other than that I'm unsure

[frank crystal]

Yah she’s looking for the gunkata aspect not the demon summoning aspect unfortunately

[tight flare]

Interesting. Maybe I'll go psychic then instead

[rustic cape]

Psychic's an extremely good pick even just for the focus point

[tight flare]

I assume the go-to reason is imaginary weapon?

I've seen that thing in action on a pure psychic and it was highly effective

[warped orbit]

It is yeah

Just a very good focus spell to spellstrike with

[carmine egret]

Do any of the post-Revised APs stand above the rest?

[surreal basin]

Uhhh I really like stolen fate?

[rustic cape]

Amped imaginary weapon on Spellstrike is comical, yeah

[woeful pecan]

Season of Ghosts is getting a remaster in February!

[surreal basin]

Still pissed off I can’t use path builder on IOS….

[barren heart]

man, if you're not ready for it pathfinder can be a major headache when you're new

[tribal steeple]

Thinking about my party's anti-religion anti-necromancy magus minotaur from rahadoum who absolutely relies on repeated Heal spells during every combat to come back from the Dying state multiple times. He does not seem to grasp the problem, how to solve the problem, or the double standard his life literally depends on.

[light gyro]

There's a big gap between a consensual heal spell and creating undead (which specifically has a negative impact on a departed soul). How do they feel about Kholo bonekeepers?

[tribal steeple]

I'm certain this is not something the player is aware of, so i couldn't tell you

[light gyro]

imo it doesn't seem like a terribly big issue even character-wise. unless they're shittalking the (presumably) divine caster's faith specifically

[rustic cape]

Heal also shows up on the primal list so 🤷‍♂️

[barren heart]

random question, how often is reparing likely to come up in the average campaign?

[tribal steeple]

If someone is using a shield, very. If nobody is using a shield, rarely.

[barren heart]

so if somebody in the party isnt using one
its probably not worh picking up a feat thats to do with repairing?

[tribal steeple]

I wouldn't think so. If you're dealing with a gm or setting that breaks things you care about regularly then you'd probably be aware of it, otherwise I've never encountered broken things nor heard much of it

[barren heart]

truely i have no idea

first time our DM is DMing p2
first time 5 of the 6 of us is playing p2

[tribal steeple]

I'd say don't bother with it then. Maybe if you're doing some kind of crafting focus character but even then there's more useful things to spend skill feats on than repairing.

[barren heart]

its tinkering fingers from ratfolk if that helps clear things up

[echo briar]

Is this an official AP or a homebrew?

[barren heart]

AP?

[echo briar]

Adventure path

[clever cobalt]

Adventure Path

[barren heart]

im assuming thats pathfinder for campaign?

[clever cobalt]

bascially a campaign module

yes

[barren heart]

homebrew

[tribal steeple]

Big shrug. It's not something I expect would come up unless someone's shield is being broken regularly

[barren heart]

i should check if anyone in the party is even using a shield

if nobody is i might swap it out for warren friend

[clever cobalt]

It does depend on trhe campaign in that ase

and what it's like

[tribal steeple]

Even if if someone is using a shield they might not be using the shield block reaction, which means they aren't gonna have it breaking ever

[barren heart]

oh so this is , niche niche then

[clever cobalt]

eh, again depends on the campaign (and GM)

[barren heart]

do you need to be trained in a shield?
and also does it interfere with spellcasting at all?

[solar storm]

No and not usually

Everyone can use a shield

[tribal steeple]

Easy +2 AC for a third action on your turn

[solar storm]

And you don’t need a free hand to cast spells most of the time (I forget the exceptions offhand, they’re rare) so a shield rarely complicates using magic

[barren heart]

[echo briar]

You do however need a feat to shield block

[light gyro]

its funny how pf2e is 'the crunchy game' but nowadays spellcasting so so much more streamlined than by-the-books 5e

[echo briar]

And I have a gut feeling that it’s going to get more streamlined in 3e.

I don’t think spell slots will make it. At least not daily ones

[light gyro]

what will it be instead? mana system? focus points but More?

[echo briar]

I mean who knows, but vancian casting seems to be less and less popular each year

[tribal steeple]

time to lift kevin crawford's Effort system instead

[echo briar]

Personally I hope they figure out a way to have multiple spell casting systems while sharing spells.

[solar storm]

I like spell slots but they’re kind of an odd one out now since otherwise daily resources are quite rare

Since everything else is faster the party is more or less paced by the casters going “wait time out”

[echo briar]

I think the solution is pretty obvious. Just make it so every class has a combination of daily, encounter, and at will abilities.

No one would ever complain

[solar storm]

I would haha

I do not particularly like homogenized resources like that

[true delta]

Last time in Quest for the Frozen Flame (contains spoilers for the main plot):

|| Last time, our incompetent wannabe bully Pakano was driven to flee, crushed under a falling mass of snow, subsequently crushed again under our frostgiant barbarian‘s hammer, and finally buried by four mammoths taking a shit on top of him.||

[rustic cape]

That guy killed my PC

I was reincarnated as a gnome

[true delta]

My condolences.

[woeful pecan]

Help I need archetype suggestions for an Animist in SoG

[rustic cape]

Druid is good for more blasting spells

Since SoG goes to level 12, it provides an excellent chance to grab Sixth Pillar at 10 into Maneuvering Spell at 12th, an absolutely sick pickup for liturgists

[woeful pecan]

How much more complexity does Druid add?

[rustic cape]

If you’re just taking it for Basic Spellcasting Benefits? Virtually zilch

You get some extra spell slots that you can use for primal spells instead of your normal divine

[woeful pecan]

Cool cool

[rustic cape]

When I did it I used it almost exclusively for blasting spells

Animist has fire spells but very little from other elements

Nabbing electric arc and frostbite is excellent

[tight flare]

Still polishing my L1 unfurling brocade magus. Anything in particular to think about with this?
I've played another magus before, automaton. Played the two-handed weapon magus type.
UBM seems quite different.

If I read it correctly, it seems more viable to focus less on spell strikes and more on maneuvers with this.

[woeful pecan]

More likely, you'd alternate spellstrike and maneuvers

Any given Magus is usually already spellstriking every other turn anyway, so the question is usually what to do on the off turns

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, the 'intended' loop for magus is to only spellstrike every other turn
Which is why most conflux spells involve a Strike- MAP fucks around with trying to conflux and spellstrike in one turn
Grapples fill your off turns amazingly
If you land Mullberry Leave's immobilie and grapple at reach, they need to waste literally their entire turn getting out of the trap you've snared them in, and if they fail, you have off guard for your next spellstrike

[tight flare]

That sounds promising

This is what I do on christmas. Plan PF2 characters

[woeful pecan]

You ever discover a feat so interesting you rewrite parts of your backstory to make it fit

[fossil dome]

Yup

[fossil dome]

Which one?

[woeful pecan]

In this case, it's Feed on Fear

Basically I had to change my dhampir witch's mother from a jiang-shi to a vetalarana, and some details of her parents' meeting as a result

[wary yoke]

Our bard just got Fortissimo Composition and is resenting my exemplar’s master-level will save

[warped orbit]

They need to get themselves some Orchestral Brooches

[wary yoke]

"I rolled a 33, does that succeed?"
"It's good, I just think you can be better! Perfection is a journey!"

"You're not necessarily playing better, you're just playing louder!"

[warped orbit]

if they keep up with their Performance increases and skill items, they shouldn't have too much trouble with the checks mostly though

[wary yoke]

Apparently she's still only trained, somehow.

[warped orbit]

oh, yeah that would do it

[wary yoke]

Our conversation trying to figure out if she's been putting the skill increases into other things or if she's been neglecting skill increases entirely has been put off in the interest of continuing the session.

[dapper tusk]

do people from Geb have Russian accents

if not can I just pretend they do

[surreal basin]

It’s so fucking weird

How that ability works

Only ability in the game that punishes you for your allies having good saves

[wary yoke]

I’d say Slavic accents at least

[wraith snow]

They're a byproduct of the not!Egyptian empire so it'd be a little strange but there's certainly nothing to stop the power of pretend

Plus the OTHER Gothic horror nation has it covered (Ustalav)

[clever cobalt]

I was thinking Middle Eastern

If that isn't too vague

[summer whale]

my Saturday group has finally overcome our long term Rime of the Frostmaiden game and banished 5e to the aether; I've got a one-off Mothership game to finish this Saturday, and then? Kingmaker time

[rustic cape]

Kingmaker's pretty good

My one piece of advice would be that the game kinda expects you to keep hexcrawling even after you establish your barony/kingdom/etc, so it helps to go in with that knowledge

[clever cobalt]

Also Kingmaker is a big campaign

not saying this is a bad thing, but it can become a commitment

especially once you get to Kingdom Building

[rustic cape]

Oh, and tbh I would skip the Kingdom Building rules

Mainly because they're just sort of there

There's good fan-fixes out there, but even then the kingdom building rules seem to just kind of exist for their own sake.

[tribal steeple]

Kingdom Turns are something that my group has absolutely handed off to the one player who is actually interested in and engages with it, so he and the GM just handle those outside of game sessions. Managing it as a group during a play session was not an enjoyable use of time.

[turbid dagger]

Yeahhhh before we dropped kingdom rules we would spend like
Entire sessions dealing with kingdom turns + the random events from them
It was tough

[wraith snow]

We did this for a bit but at some points we ran into narrative issues regarding decisions being made that impacted parts of the RP while only one player was actually making those decisions so we scrapped it in favour of narrative-only

[tribal steeple]

I think we're somewhere around Chapter 8?

Looks like there's 11 chapters total so we're pretty far in.

Winter break though so no weekly sessions.

[wraith snow]

Nice. My group is just about finishing up our campaign. Probably around one or two months remaining

[summer whale]

fortunately I am playing as the character who's gonna be gung ho for exploring at all times (Precision Edge Ranger), so I'm not unprepared for this 😄

also yeah, I suspect we might just shunt kingdom planning off on 1-2 of our party members who wants to get into the weeds with it between weeks, rather than having it take up entire sessions

it's on the docket for session zero talk

[tribal steeple]

At least in my case, I came with a character who had precisely zero awareness or even interest in kingdom management. They started out as nigh animalistic and have since developed loftier ambitions than one river kingdom.

So "how does this character contribute to kingdom turns" was always a weird topic.

[wraith snow]

My character was kind of similar albeit less extreme

They were an elder of their Kobold tribe (late 30s)

To this day she's untrained in Society despite ostensibly having been a ruler for several years

[surreal basin]

Upcoming soon: my level 7 players will be interacting with a very sealed level 15 demon

As expected, u sealing it would be an insanely bad idea

unsealing

[tribal steeple]

unless...
they make a deal with it first

"bro it's devils who do the contracts"

😨

[surreal basin]

Oh I mean they’re also planning on making a deal with a demon

[frozen hatch]

Thoughts on strength of Thousands AP?

[echo briar]

Very good, but expect most combats to be avoided

At least early on

[silver geyser]

But honestly that's fine for low levels.

[echo briar]

Also, make sure your party’s aware that they will be students for less than half of it.

They become teachers at like level 8, which should be communicated so there isn’t a mismatch of expectations

[tribal steeple]

Have played up to level 8, it's pretty good. I don't think my group dynamic is the best for it but it's a really neat framework to roleplay around.

I think it should be obvious, but characters having genuine academic goals rather than typical tragic adventurer backstories is kind of important. You still get protagonist favoritism of course but it'd be something of a roleplay challenge to justify why Mr. "I Live To Loot And Pillage" has accepted a faculty position at the world's oldest magic college.

[frozen hatch]

I was interested in the AP and was curious what others thought about it. My playgroup isnt real big fans of 2e and mostly still play 1e though a group within the group has been playing starfinder for a little while as well. I was tempted to get SoT and try to convert it to 1e but was curious first.

[echo briar]

I will say, chapter 1 book 4 is probably the worse single chapter of any AP I have ever seen.

Like every other book? Great! Every other chapter in book 4? Not the best in the AP but pretty solid. But chapter 1 is just rough

It is quite literally mostly rolling dice.

[light gyro]

i misread that as 'book 1 ch4' and thought 'really? the diplomacy bit was way worse'. lo and behold: book 4 ch1 is the diplomacy bit

[echo briar]

Look, they took a risk when they made an entire chapter of influence encounters, and I can appreciate that. But when each round takes weeks, you can’t even role play it, you kinda just have to roll dice.

[tribal steeple]

Time to collab a montage animation

[light gyro]

they even use the subsystem as written later and its so much smoother

[frozen hatch]

Would SoT be difficult to translate to 1e?

[light gyro]

It's got a loooot of stat blocks iirc

[echo briar]

But again, if you can improv that one section (that you’re group might not even get too, book 4 is a good irl year from the campaigns start) it’s a great AP

[tribal steeple]

I think we're just starting book 3 or so

great to know the biggest hurdle is ahead of us

[warped orbit]

was looking through the features for one of the new Mythic Destinies in Runelords just now
and wow, the value on these extra effects does not at all feel equal

the slashing one is so much better than the other two it feels kinda silly

[silver geyser]

I am looking respectfully at that persistent bleed more than the sickened tbh

[warped orbit]

really?

1d8 bleed feels like nothing basically, while Sickened 2 is kinda insane

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[rustic cape]

How are they for non-mythic characters as level 12+ archetypes?

[rustic cape]

Huh, really? We did a lot of roleplay around the influence in the game I was in

My character got a free Trained in Warthog Lore 😤

[echo briar]

There’s a decent chance you’re GM changed some things

But as written, each round is like a month, and outside of like one combat the only way to progress diplomatically is via these checks.

[rustic cape]

I think we did the full months, and just montaged it

[surreal basin]

kingmaker is going well

[fast hill]

I've found myself looking at pathfinder ancestries and like

none of them are super interesting to me

especially goblins and kobolds

[warped orbit]

I mean, what would you be looking for in an "interesting" ancestry?

[fast hill]

I think it's widely that fantasy authors in the modern day both dont make them cultural-religious-ethnic groups but also dont make them particularly different from humans so they're just like... different looking humans

conrasu are really cool

I like em

[fast hill]

goblins and kobolds are also either just like, funny comic relief or the bad guys

though I think they have been getting better about this

[fast hill]

and dont get me wrong making them cultural-religious-ethnic group has a WHOLE host of problematic issues

but I tend to gravitate towards just making a human unless I wanna focus on one specific aspect of that ancestry

[clever cobalt]

are you looking at all of them or just the main ones?

[silver geyser]

May I suggest the humble Poppet?

[fast hill]

poppets are cool

[clever cobalt]

I like Fleshwarps and Kholo

[fast hill]

they dont interest me personally but it's not like an offensive level of boredom

kholo and fleshwarps are cool but I find fleshwarps are way too broad

[silver geyser]

Fair.

[clever cobalt]

fair

[fast hill]

fleshwarps are like 15 different groups that pretend to be 1 ancestry and I get why but they have no meat because of that

[silver geyser]

There's one of my guilty pleasure ancestries

The Shoony.

[clever cobalt]

the pugs?

[silver geyser]

The pugs.

[fast hill]

the shoony are one of the ancestries I just cant take seriously

[surreal basin]

I have allowed people to play other like

Weird small humanoid dogs

W the shoony ancestry

[clever cobalt]

you also have Awakened Animal for furries bigger animals

[light gyro]

shoony

[tribal steeple]

Shoony wish they could be as cute as this fox.

[solar storm]

I'd like to thank my fucking thieves party members for being such looters we've stolen enough everlight crystals off the walls to cast Resurrect

[light gyro]

Now that's some old-fashioned dungeoneering

[trail nova]

Amazing. Breaking WbL the old fashioned way.

[rustic cape]

Honestly, respect

[tribal steeple]

At least they're not so entrepreneurial as to take after the Salt Golem Thieves of legend. Looting magic crystals is well within the derailment safety parameters.

[stuck bane]

This is ||Abomination Vaults|| yeah?

[eager mountain]

ye

[stuck bane]

Might need to throw that at the group I ran it for later then

[turbid dagger]

https://paizo.com/starfinder/faq Starfinder 2e errata out, big things for multiple arm set havers and melee soldiers
Very big things for my multiple arm set having melee soldier

(FAQ basically confirmed you can use inactive hands for pretty much anything that isn't a weapon attack or raising a shield, and also surprised me by saying Boost applies to everyone in an Area Fire, not just your Primary Target)

(Auto fire is out of luck though 😔)

[warped orbit]

that makes having multiple arms pretty strong

[turbid dagger]

Indeed! Shooting up medkits, battle medicine, feats or unarmed strikes that require free hands, grapple trip and such

[warped orbit]

oh hey, Snipers got a much needed buff

they can Reload as a free action once per turn

oh and Twisted Dark Zone got nerfed

probably deserved

good that they clarified this, but a little weird that it's different for Area and Auto Fire

[turbid dagger]

My brain slides right off witchwarper so I am at peace 😌

[warped orbit]

I'd personally probably just treat both like Area here

[turbid dagger]

Also yeah that's my main gripe
I guess I can sort of see where they're going with it
Auto weapons are more flexible as you can shoot them as the save AOE or a single shot, and for weapons like the Magnetar Rifle you have a very compelling reason to do so since it has a large magazine
While area weapons are clunkier, with small clips and a need to devote yourself to the area fire

As I said the big winner is melee soldier since they get the best of both worlds
Rock a fangblade and go ham with d12 boosts

Once you get Shot On The Run it's not even particularly hard to set up

[warped orbit]

ah but then they also slightly nerfed sniper rifles

for some reason

[echo briar]

You can’t have the sniper actually using snipers silly

At least not until level 9

[warped orbit]

so the free action reload does help Sniper a lot

I'm still not even sure if they're that good compared to "regular" Operative lmao

[rustic cape]

Okay yeah that's really strong

[warped orbit]

Reminder that Skittermanders have six hands

[turbid dagger]

going allsix fr fr

Skittermander caster with 6 spell gems

[echo briar]

level 8
Rare, Contract, Invested, magical.
In the back of some dusty library, you traded clarity for the shear breadth of knowledge the entity you bargained with can produce. You gain a +2 bonus to all checks to recall knowledge. Once a day, the entity that holds your bargained contract can steal your knowledge, secretly turning a failure or success (but not critical success) on a recall knowledge check into a critical failure. 

Activate 1 action, envision. Frequency: 1/day. 
Effect: Instantly use up to 5 Recall Knowledge actions. On these actions, successes become critical successes, but failures become critical failures. You learn how many of these checks succeeded, but not which ones``` Contracts are hard. How does this look?

[surreal basin]

Problem

Crit successes get you additional info over the failure’s “false success” so you’d be able to tell them apart

[eager mountain]

1 for every party member

https://tenor.com/view/akikoha-tokoha-antoya-akian-akitoya-gif-8866504820365325283

[rapid wagon]

i thought skittermanders were generally 4 for movement, 2 as hands; and some go 2 for movement and 4 for hands; but i cant imagine any go 6 for hands, no movement

[echo briar]

No, they have 6 arms, 2 legs.

Most use the arms as arms, while a few use 4 as arms and 2 as extra legs

[rapid wagon]

ahhh ok

[rustic cape]

I know I'm the nth person to observe this but

Timber Sentinel

Is crazy good

[light gyro]

its CRAZY GOOD

[warped orbit]

it's very good, yeah

had a lot of fun with it on my Kineticist

[clever cobalt]

I believe its been OP since the Kineticist dropped

[rustic cape]

I'm playing Wood/Earth/Air

[clever cobalt]

I recall discussion about it back then

[rustic cape]

And Timber Sentinel is probably my single most common move

[warped orbit]

Wood/Earth is a great combination

I'm tempted to try Wood/Water/Earth at some point

for maximum healing and support

[tribal steeple]

Using wood/metal in strength of thousands, timber sentinel has been downright necessary for compensating allies that eat crits all the time

[warped orbit]

I think it's fine personally
it is definitely very strong, but it doesn't cover everything

[rustic cape]

I basically went Air entirely for Desert Wind

[tribal steeple]

"Yeah it's OP, unfortunately we're bad enough to need it"

[tribal steeple]

It's strong if the enemies are operated in a way that they only ever do Strike stuff. If the gm is clever enough to do [anything else] then it's not so strong

[turbid dagger]

If an enemy like, Shoves instead of strikes because of timber sentinel that is absolutely a trade in your favor though

[rustic cape]

I agree with Allie, I don't think it's OP when you account for how other tank classes tend to load up on multiple reactions, how high damage gets, and how action-starved kineticist is

[solar storm]

Some enemies don’t really have a lot of choices

I don’t think it’s OP

But also it in Abom Vaults kinda put it to the test lol

[warped orbit]

AV is also very suited to it thanks to the cramped environments on most of the floors

[rustic cape]

Yeah, it got dramatically better for my group when our rogue got Gang Up

Because we can cluster better

[warped orbit]

but yeah I don't think it's that much more crazy than just having a Champion around
considering it also still takes up a majority of your action econ on the Kinet

[tribal steeple]

I'd like to not use it so frequently. Kineticists can do so much cool stuff, but the group I'm with essentially only plays in "meathead doctrine" so things that aren't Big Damage or Prevent Big Damage kind of feel like time-wasters.

It does add up to a LOT of soaked damage though.

[rustic cape]

The big advantage of Timber Sentinel is IMO if you have a party that already has good defenses

As a second defensive layer that can last across multiple rounds

[warped orbit]

poor enemies with split damage whenever a Champion exists in their vicinity

[rustic cape]

If you're tossing it down every round it's less potent

[warped orbit]

because as a reminder for anyone unaware, Champ reaction is resist all
and resist all applies separately to every damage type in an attack

[rustic cape]

Yeah, I got reminded of that recently given my kineticist just got their champ multiclass reaction

[tribal steeple]

I've gone with Guardian free archetype on mine because the character's solution to "the magus keeps getting ganked" has expanded to be "now i'm gonna force them to focus on me instead"

[rustic cape]

My GM lets me use 1-action blasts for Retributive Strike, so it works very nicely

[wraith snow]

This is what someone in the custom campaign I'm in is doing and it's going well, granted I don't think Earth has actually come into it yet at this point

[warped orbit]

the main thing Earth adds IMO is potential for Berms

and Armor in Earth if you take it earlier

[wraith snow]

So far they've mostly been focusing on Wood with Water's main contributions being Ocean's Balm and Winter Sleet

Turns out against the right encounters Sleet is still a menace even post-nerf

[warped orbit]

it can yes

let Kineticist archetype into Kineticist, so they can pick up extra feats at half level

[wraith snow]

It is kind of a shame that they care so little about most other functions in the game that archetypes are hard to manage

There's a Kineticist in both of the games I'm in currently and both have FA, one is doing Beastmaster and the other is on Guardian/Medic

Guardian in particular seems REALLY strong as a Kineticist dedication

[warped orbit]

Guardian and Champ are both good options, yeah

[tribal steeple]

Really good stuff for the armor using ones, free renewable shield is a fan

[rustic cape]

Yeah, the infinity shield has some crazy synergies

[wraith snow]

Plus even without it Taunt alone almost justifies it, just a really generically good defensive option

[frozen hatch]

Working on a magic academy setting for a campaign for some friends right now and trying to come up with some ideas for it. Among some of the notes so far, I have more humorous and some more serious things related to the academy, the party's place in it and other things.

The dean of the Divinitation studies department hasn't changed in 3000 years since the first dean's prophecies keep coming true regarding the department with the assistant dean running the day to day of the department. Weather based divination studies were banned by the first dean since he prophesied that a riot would break out every time a student thought they had an accurate prediction system only to mispredict.

Casting detect magic directly on faculty and students is seen as an insult and joke depending on the person. It's seen as another way of questioning if a person is directly capable of magic. (I know the spell doesnt exactly work like this but it was a humorous thought that came to mind.)

The academy recently had a change in leadership after a series of scandals regarding former graduates and disasters on campus. The pontiff of a major religion who studied at the academy for a year launched a crusade on another plane, two graduates leveled a decent sized city in a fight, two dozen students went missing in the massive underground labyrinth that changes yearly underneath the academy. The former head dean attempted a coup in the kingdom before being executed upon failure, etc. The new administration was a compromise with the king who ordered the academy to make an "ethics of magic" class be taught among other new programs in an attempt to start producing "less troublesome" generations of graduates for not only the kingdom but other nations/groups as well.

The players are scholarship students which would cause some tension with those from prestigious families known for sending generations of wizards, clerics, and sorcerers among other types of spellcasters to the academy. Non-spellcasters are now accepted into the academy as part of a program to help teach their spellcasting students to rely on others instead of just only themselves while teaching non-mages on how to better protect mages when adventuring or when serving as bodyguards. Rogues and other sneaky types are also permitted as part of the academy's secret tradition of training anti-mage assassins in case former graduates or other rogue mages need to be put down.

A lot of problems that arise arent dealt with by the faculty because theyre unaware (they know more than players/students know) but because the academy encourages students to solve their own problems even if they find themselves in danger and also quite a few staff members are quite lazy and would rather make the students deal with it then themselves. "Sure we can cast a meteor shower or polar storm to clear up a mess but the paperwork and other problems that can be caused by such solutions just isnt worth it in our opinion and its an opportunity for students to prove their own problem solving skills."

The academy encourages intradepartmental cooperation by not dividing students by school but instead randomly assigning rooms in different blocks in the multiple housing halls. Group projects are quite common and almost always involve members of your same housing block as your group. This is to explain why the party might cooperate or find themselves grouped up frequently if they dont take the initiative to group up themselves.

There are multiple clubs around the academy with the two largest being the labyrinth exploration society and the dueling club. The latter has been divided into three subgroups that the leadership of the club is trying to reunite: mages only, nonmagic, and mixed duels. The labyrinth exploration society is there to provide a support network and pseudo adventurers guild for the players as they explore the labyrinth beneath the academy.

Other ideas and things are still being thought of and this is a very early work in progress idea. Thoughts on some of this so far and ideas i should add?

[surreal basin]

What spells would be good for the god of bonds, oaths, and relationships to grant their cleric

[frank crystal]

Ring of truth seems like an obvious choice

An oath born on lies means nothing

[surreal basin]

Do gods ever grant spells that are already on the divine list?

[frank crystal]

I think so?

[novel merlin]

Friend fetch

[surreal basin]

Oooo good call

[frank crystal]

Ok looking at a bunch of gods, I can’t find a single one that does

[surreal basin]

Oh telepathy is a good level 4 one

For this

The Mourning Star
Edicts: Form Lasting Bonds with others, Pay your debts, Punish oathbreakers
Anathema: Break an Oath, Abandon an Ally, Intentionally break a bond
Areas of Concern: Relationships, Oaths, Debts
Divine Ability: Wisdom
Divine Skill: Diplomacy
Favored Weapon: Trident
Domains: Family, Duty, Soul, Passion, Truth
Cleric Spells: 1: Friendfetch, 4: Telepathy 8: All is One, One is All

[novel merlin]

4th level entangle fate or outcasts curse also fit?

[surreal basin]

This is the god statblock for the pre-fallen form of Asmodeus in my setting btw

[frozen hatch]

Any thoughts on how I can expand this?

[carmine oyster]

I don't have any direct suggestions but you could look at Strength of Thousands for inspiration on activities etc

[wraith snow]

I think I'm more or less done playing casters in this system, I still have some character ideas for Caster classes I'd like to use but I tire of managing spell lists

[tribal steeple]

I feel that very much.

At least with most spontaneous casters you have your set list and that's it. But then you're a dummy like me and take Occult Evolution on your sorcerer and now have every mental spell at any rank as a daily flex slot.

[warped orbit]

I feel like the main thing about casters is just generally finding out which 20% of the spell list is actually worth using, and then ignoring the rest

[wraith snow]

I'm playing a caster in both games I'm in, they differ in being spontaneous/prepared, and they're on two different spell lists.

[wraith snow]

This is true but

1. You still need to find that 20%
2. At a certain point with high level casters taking stock of all of your options is a pain in the ass

[warped orbit]

I do still agree with both of those points, yes

[tribal steeple]

Big true

So many spells are just not worth your time, so many are "this is something an NPC uses once"

[wraith snow]

Like, with my level 18 Sorc, it's to the point where even ignoring the Primal list there's still just enough going on with the character sheet that it's a pain to keep on top of.

[light gyro]

crit fail help action into crit fail pick a lock

[frozen hatch]

Does anyone have a spheres of power for dummies guide or something similar to help newbies understand the subsystem?

[trail nova]

Uhh. I’m not sure if there’s that, though I know it fairly well.

[rustic cape]

I really enjoyed playing a high level caster

And so really enjoyed the learning curve

[turbid dagger]

ALERT
IRUXI ICONIC DETECTED

[eager mountain]

the necromancer

VALEROS HAS A DAUGHTER

[clever cobalt]

what's the deets on this book?

[eager mountain]

I have none yet

[clever cobalt]

also is it the Necromancer and Runemaker(?) book

[eager mountain]

ye

[clever cobalt]

also a link to the stream would help

nice

[eager mountain]

bt also a remaster for magus and summoner

https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo

[clever cobalt]

also automaton iconic from the looks of it?

[turbid dagger]

Yeah!

[clever cobalt]

Higher image ref

Kholo Iconic stonks just went up as well

(in my head at least)

[eager mountain]

😄 SNICKT, gnomish engineer

[clever cobalt]

Don't forget the new Lost Omens book

[frank crystal]

VALEROS HAD SEX?!

[clever cobalt]

Valeros officially fucks

[eager mountain]

before he left to be an adventurer , he didnt know the farmer's daughter was prego

[frank crystal]

Oh shit for real?

Damn

[clever cobalt]

though him being a deadbeat dad, albiet an unintentional one is kinda funny tbh

[frank crystal]

Valeros bum arc

[eager mountain]

the novel is him trying to reconnect with his daughter, DURING the chelaxia-andoran war

saving private ryan style

[eager mountain]

also second starfinder novel

but yeah the book is Operation Hellmouth

im definantly gonna hav to read it

[clever cobalt]

We need Fleshwarp and Kholo iconcs stat

no bias here

[eager mountain]

we are atleast gettin a iruxi and automaton

[clever cobalt]

Yep

The automaton iconic gives me hope

wait I had a horrible realization

[eager mountain]

lol

[frank crystal]

Glep is a necromancer is true

[wary yoke]

1. love that the daughter of Valeros is a two-weapon fighter, as it should be
2. Called it that the Impossible book would also have the remastered Secrets of Magic classes

[eager mountain]

oK

SO

2 ancestries we are getting in the absalom station book

We are getting Nuar, smaller albidno mintaurs who are all clones of Nuar Spiritskin from pathfinder

AND Gnarefuroids .

squidy amorphous aberations who feed of chemical runoff and make shells out of junk

thier described as moving like a " landslide of trash "

[rustic cape]

Looking forward to the summoner remaster, maybe they'll fix Act Together and Tandem actions so that the class isn't awful

[clever cobalt]

I'm wondering what theoreticlaly would be a good class for a Kholo Iconic

Necromancer is definetly one of them at least

[echo briar]

I really hope they improve magus focus spells in the new book.

It’s kinda disappointing that to optimize them, you have to ignore their own focus spells and instead poach them from someone else.

[light gyro]

oh is there a date for summoner/magus rewrites?

[light gyro]

maybe some a class archetype for animist that makes them a bit more necromancy-flavoured for bonekeepers

[warped orbit]

It's coming with the new book, Impossible Magic

[turbid dagger]

(Note: This next book is in 7 months)

[warped orbit]

the next Remaster update is Dark Archives, which is coming start of February

(or Jan 20 for subscribers)

[vocal ember]

ah so my suspicions were correct, the Necromancer and Runesmith are gonna be part of the Secrets of Magic remaster book

[clever cobalt]

Do we know what changes are being made for the Thaum yet, if any?

[warped orbit]

not to my knowledge

[rotund geode]

hey chatt
very random but

What creature type would a creature of pure occult magic be

Like a writhing nexus of folklore and human observation

[clever cobalt]

Aberration maybe?

[stuck bane]

I was expecting aberrations to be on the Occult trait page’s list of creatures, but that seems to entirely be occupied by dragons

The traits description says “A creature with this trait is primarily constituted of or has a strong connection to occult magic.” So I thought it might offer a range of suggestions. But apparently the suggestion is “dragon”

[turbid dagger]

There's this! https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1085

Which is essentially exactly what you described

[rotund geode]

ooo ok

So just "Illusion" as a creature type

had an idea for a Lich-type Ascension for bards back in my dnd days that I realized works even better with Pathfinder Bards and their focus on Occult

[stuck bane]

Weird, no listed recall knowledge checks

[shell schooner]

hey, i made an entire homebrew pf2e ancestry for the charr from guild wars 2 https://scribe.pf2.tools/v/RW7ochxC-charr-ancestry

[echo briar]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1277 there is a being of pure arcane magic that’s just arcane

[shell schooner]

would be very funny if it had linguistic as a creature trait

[rotund geode]

Oh that would go hard

[rotund geode]

Inch resting

[astral prawn]

Eh had a session end on a naff note, GM remembered a Remorhaz' fire aura does fire damage and it retroactively melted the fighter's sword to broken before their 108 damage crit landed

[turbid dagger]

Noooooo

[astral prawn]

Old guy player was unamused by GM forgetting to do damage stuff and saying he should just accept he beefed it, old guy player also stubborn about any percieved injustice and misinterpretation of rules he notices, even if it's his interpretation that isn't RAW

Does feel a bit like he expects the GM to try and screw us over tbh

Having played with said GM, he's just forgetful and doesn't fully work out how certain mechanics work. This has led to times where he goes "No that misses. Wait it hits. Wait it crit hits! Oh wait no I'm wrong it misses."

Old Guy is also a GM so sometimes he hits us with "That's not how I would run it/do it/interpret that but it's your table."

[eager mountain]

currently watching this

[tribal steeple]

Fighting incorporeal undead is a lot harder when your positive damage attacks aren't coded right in the VTT and incorrectly tell you that the target has resistance 20 so you stop trying that

In hindsight a Wood Kineticist is one of the better simple blaster setups vs ghosts simply because of implicit access to vitality/positive damage

But mis-coding and miscommunication had me just taunting the thing on repeat instead

[carmine oyster]

Huh, what creature? Want to make sure it's not messed up in my game

[tribal steeple]

Screaming Sulfur

But typical incorporeal resists

Resistances all damage 10 (except force, ghost touch, or positive; double resistance vs. non-magical)

apparently not considered undead

[carmine oyster]

Oh that's doubly weird, since that means it was treating the attacks as non-magical as well

[warped orbit]

Its probably because that's premaster

And vitality isn't positive

[tribal steeple]

I thought I knew how the VTT worked (Fantasy Grounds) but I guess having it tagged as both vitality and positive doesn't get the result I want. Yet another "hey GM be straight with me, that should have worked" correction to keep track of

[clever cobalt]

Yesh I had the same thought as Allie

Resistances and Weaknesess and whatnot get a bit weird with pre-remaster stuff

[wraith snow]

Wood Kinet was likely going to be my choice if I'm ever in another undead-focused campaign.

[clever cobalt]

Did they nerf that one Summon Tree wood Kineticist feat

Because I recall it being super busted at higher levels

[wraith snow]

The one that's just protector tree?

[clever cobalt]

yeah

[wraith snow]

Not to my knowledge

[clever cobalt]

Especially since it doesn't have the Overflow trait (or whatever trait makes you drop your aura)

So you can just keep doing it

[wraith snow]

There's a Kineticist using in both of the games I'm in and it's still real good

[clever cobalt]

Nice

Also, on the topic of kineticist, what's the best DPS Kienticist?

I presume it includes Fire to some extent

[wraith snow]

I've spoken about it with my GM before and he was under the impression that it was single gate fire, yeah

I don't know enough about the specifics to say for sure though

[clever cobalt]

Fair

[wraith snow]

Though I did see that jagged berms feat deal 150 damage to a dragon in one round so in the right circumstances you can almost certainly do better

Fire is probably the least conditional, though

[rustic cape]

Fire/Air or Fire/Air/Earth, no question

Air has some absolutely ridiculous DPS stances, Fire has by far the best junctions for DPS.

[clever cobalt]

Yep

[rustic cape]

Fire/Air/Earth lets you combine Desert Wind and, long term, Ignite The Sun

[tribal steeple]

Timber Sentinel is really good, but it falls off immediately as soon as:

• you can't afford to stand adjacent to it
• enemies use things other than Strike (saves, spell attacks, nondamaging attacks)
• enemies directly target the tree first and just blow it up with a crit because it has AC10

[wraith snow]

Objects can't be crit

Protector Tree isn't a creature, I think

[tribal steeple]

But if you don't have to run around a lot, or enemies only ever use Strike, then yeah it's good

[tribal steeple]

Perhaps I'm wrong then, IDK. If not crit then having mooks whittle it down or something

I'm playing at level 8 so mine has 40 hp, but yesterday's session it was absolutely useless because the big dangerous enemy was doing nothing but AOE will saves on the entire party

But whenever the magus tunnel visions on standing his ground to man-fight things he shouldn't, repeatedly channeling 40hp trees to soak damage for him is really effective

[light gyro]

Magii can 1v1 anyone they just gotta lock in

[tribal steeple]

This one demonstrably cannot lock in, to the point that he drops into Dying so frequently that some other players joke that he does burpees during combat

He has a lot of work to do before earning my confidence

[rustic cape]

Timber Sentinel is very strong but it's absolutely not busted

If you're the Timber Sentinel Guy, you can expect to spend a surprising number of rounds using Timber Sentinel and a one-action blast

Giving it overflow would make it absolutely worthless from an action economy perspective

It's also most effective when you have allies who have solid defenses and just need some insurance

[warped orbit]

The only thing it'd change is be slightly more annoying to use with stances

It wouldn't really make it significantly worse in the cases where its already good

But I agree it doesn't need Overflow

[rustic cape]

It would make Timber Sentinel + 1 action blast obligatory in a way that locks out stuff like movement, fresh produce, etc.

But honestly yeah, what's more important is that it's an unnecessary restriction

[rustic cape]

It will go down very fast if it's protecting someone who cannot protect themselves from level-appropriate enemies, and that really locks the kineticist in.

Ideally, you only have to use it every 3 rounds or so

IME

[carmine oyster]

Timber Sentinel is great because you get to leave nonmagical trees all over

[rustic cape]

Yeah the lore implications are hilarious

[light gyro]

Ah I see how it is - the wood kineticist leaves the products of their magic lying around and it's delightful. But when I, the necromancer,

[tribal steeple]

I've enjoyed the mix of Wood/Metal with druid archetype (cultivation) and striking the balance between life/decay. Sometimes a place actually does need a few days worth of foliage summoning to restore to wellness. Other times maybe a place is due for some Retch Rust and desolation because the environment is out of control.

[carmine oyster]

tbf since they're nonmagical trees the comparison might more accurately be just leaving corpses all over, and nobody complains when adventurers do that (at least, not to the adventurers)

[errant roost]

Until you do it in a tavern and they send you a bill for tree removal

[carmine oyster]

Fantasy Tree Law!

[errant roost]

lmao. I like the idea of a druidic protection racket where they just keep making trees people can't remove without paying them damages.

[shell schooner]

monofire kineticist with flame oracle free archetype.
incendiary aura focus spell: everyone in 10 feet automatically takes an extra 2d4 persistent fire every time they take fire damage
thermal nimbus: everyone in 10 feet automatically takes fire damage equal to half your level upon starting their turn or moving into the aura
molten wire (elemental overlap): deals 2d4 fire damage (not persistent, so it stacks) at the start of each of the target's turns, bumped up to 2d6 because of fire impulse junction
fire aura junction: enemies in 10 feet have weakness to fire impulses equal to half your level

[tribal steeple]

And then you build the character on top of this premise, being frighteningly lacking in control to the point that they become hesitant to even stand near flammable materials, on a personal quest to find some way to reign in the supernaturally persistent flames

Or maybe they're just an unrepentant pyromaniac having a grand ol time

[vapid elk]

I made a mostly automated spreadsheet for the Earn Income downtime action for PF2e

(I forgot Task Level 0 and didn't bother to add it later)

(the place I made it for has a custom crit success reward)

[tribal steeple]

Finally, I can put up my adventuring hat and do honest work five days a week

[warped orbit]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1qgpug1/dark_archive_was_sent_in_error_to_some_people/

a little peeved that they seemingly nerfed Psychic

IW wasn't even close to a problem, it did not need a nerf even if it did get grabbed by Magus all the time

[surreal basin]

Unfortunately Paizo listens to the subreddit

[turbid dagger]

Yeaaaaaaa
Unfortunate!
Locking the unique cantrips behind an archetype feat would ave handily solved tat issue

[surreal basin]

Which is addicted to giving feedback on pure white room speculation

[warped orbit]

they also did this

and it was already the case

you don't get amps and a focus point from the dedication anymore now

you can only pick up the enhanced base cantrips with the dedication, you need the level 6 feat to pick up the unique ones

[turbid dagger]

Oooooo
Yes entirely unneeded ten
Level 6 for a strong spellstrike cantrip is literally fine

[surreal basin]

IMO it was already fine lmao

[warped orbit]

it was totally fine

[surreal basin]

But Paizo is fucking terrified of multiclassing archetypes being okay at all

[silver geyser]

Makes me wonder how much it showed up in Society Play.

[warped orbit]

a lot probably

but it's fine, if good

I'm just kind of annoyed that Psychic got basically no real positive changes, when they really needed it

[surreal basin]

Well they got A positive change with duration spells being effected by unleash psyche

[wraith snow]

Inventor Dedication lives in my head rent free, it has exactly one really good usecase in the form of armor invention but the sheer amount of investment needed to get the weapon or construct to do literally anything is depressing

[warped orbit]

that one is nice, yes
but also was necessary

at least Amped Daze actually benefits from your Unleash

[surreal basin]

That being said

I think the people on that post who were expecting psychic to GET 3 spell slots a level were expecting too much change

[warped orbit]

I don't think it's unreasonable tbh

and Oracle went up to 4 slots in Remaster

also meanwhile Thaum gets buffs to some of its weaker options

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Anyway it’s the flickmace thing again

With IW

where it’s not actually overpowered, just Pretty Good

But people won’t shut up about it lmao

[vocal ember]

oh wow I just sorta assumed you could get it through the dedication given how much people hyped it up

[warped orbit]

no the reason Psychic dedi was good was that it gave you a focus point

you still needed the 6th level feat for the unique cantrips

[turbid dagger]

Forced to once again bust out this image from a game I'm in
The Thaum Sweep literally never ends

[warped orbit]

I mean it was just kind of Correct to take on Magus, since it's not like Magus really has any strong class feats to compete with taking an archetype either

but yes it wasn't an issue

[surreal basin]

Fair

But that’s Paizo’s own fault

[warped orbit]

and the funniest part is that it's still one of the best options to dip for

[surreal basin]

Make more attack spells

Stop deleting them and turning them into save spells also

That’s not helping

[warped orbit]

it just has less advantage over going Champ or Cleric now, and just getting Fire Ray

[surreal basin]

Fire Ray nerf incoming guys watch out

[warped orbit]

well that one is mostly because attack spells are bad
and Magus mostly cares about it because they get to avoid all the things that make attack spells bad

[turbid dagger]

I can only hope Impossible Magic will do so

[surreal basin]

It certainly feels like good attack spells are impossible

[turbid dagger]

Truly,
Magus should get auto save downgrades when spellstriking with save spells
Like Channel Smite Cleric and Soldier

Honestly would probably give it a new niche for applying debuffs to PL+ enemies

[surreal basin]

Attack spells should do half damage on miss

[warped orbit]

would be nice, yeah

[surreal basin]

Yknow what fuck it

[warped orbit]

unironically, yeah

[surreal basin]

Attacks should do half damage on miss

Full stop

Fuck you I do what I want

I’m being partially facetious

But I am curious how that would play out actually

[turbid dagger]

This paradigm seems troublesome with the MAP approach to 'why don't I spam attacks'

[surreal basin]

Fair

Anyway no seriously tho just give spellcasters runes

Come on impossible magic

Impossibly invent a + to spell attacks

[novel merlin]

Monk and flurry ranger go crazy

[turbid dagger]

Oh yeah, Monk would be the really big winner

Man.........
I want to like flurry a lot,

[warped orbit]

I think it is fair to give it to spells though, the 2a ones at least

[surreal basin]

So my opinion is that you could also actually just give them higher damage than save spells to compensate

Make it more risk more reward

[turbid dagger]

Magus stocks rising,

Anyhow my lust for More Damage has been channeled into vicious swing fighter recently
Max damage, max accuracy, one off from max HP
No muss no fuss

[trail nova]

If you didn’t want attack spells, you could also choose to use the more interesting half of 1e magus and give them spell combat so that they have halfway decent action economy. Surely as a primary class feature on a relatively bad caster, “when you cast a 2 action+ spell, make an attack” isn’t that crazy.

[warped orbit]

I mean that is basically just Spellstrike

it would be fine to allow that, if you make them recharge after the same

[trail nova]

Nah, but it doesn’t give you any sort of accuracy tricks, or critting, or any of the random things spellstrike does, in exchange for letting you use more than 10 spells.

[rustic cape]

Except Exemplar!

[frozen hatch]

Thoughts on a 20 vs 25 point buy?

The reason I am asking is because normally I use a 20 pt point buy for my campaigns with the restriction that only 1 stat can be below 10 and no lower than 8. I am still making preparations for the mage academy campaign for some friends and one of them reached out and requested we go up to a 25 point buy instead of my usual 20 point buy. I told him I would put it under consideration but I am not sure I will make the change. What do you think of this requested change?

For reference i was going to allow players to be either casters or martials since the academy was also starting a program to train non-magical students (quite controversially mind you) and part of the player's argument did concern martials.

"Because this is an academy and martials will be forced to use their mental stats significantly more. Especially Intelligence, which is going to mean dumping them will affect them significantly, since they are students as well.
Because of this, maritals, who already have MAD more than casters, are going to suffer having to balance their stats.
The higher cap lessens the difference and gives them enough wiggle room to avoid dumping their mental stats at least."

This was his argument when asked why^

[warped orbit]

Is this for 2e?

[wraith snow]

I can't say I've ever experimented with 25pt pointbuy but I think their argument does make sense, though it's worth trying to consider ahead of time what the classes and tests might look like and how critical the actual magic related skills might be to finding success.

(I'm assuming 1e because I've never seen pointbuy in the context of 2e)

[frozen hatch]

Yeah its for 1e

[frozen hatch]

So 20 or 25 what do you think?

[warped orbit]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1qh57hg/psa_magus_dipping_psychic_is_dead_dead_it_doesnt/

so apparently Amps were also changed so that they are now a free action you take before Cast a Spell, ie more properly like a spellshape

which means amps are not compatible with Spellstrike and other non Cast a Spell actions anyway now

which means the IW nerf was unneeded anyway?

this also technically makes amping Guidance and Entropic Wheel impossible as written, since you can't take free actions before a reaction

[wraith snow]

Per the message above, really depends on if you're going to be expecting the non-casters to reliably pass magic skill based DCs, and if there's no alternative path offered

[sacred bluff]

25 or bust, martials deserve nice things

[silver geyser]

25 for martials, 15 for full casters

[frozen hatch]

How is that fair I wonder?

[silver geyser]

Spells

Spells are how it's fair

[carmine oyster]

From my AV game

[turbid dagger]

Amazing things coming out of Guilt Of The Graveworld

[clever cobalt]

Anyone know if the Thaum got any notable changes in the remaster?

[wraith snow]

-Chalice and Wand got improved scaling, as well as Wand having guaranteed 1 round recharge.
-Mirror and Lantern got minor buffs.
-Paired Link no longer has a range limit

Don't have access to the source myself so I can't confirm anything else, this is just what I've seen repeated.

[clever cobalt]

Got it

Nothing that would affect my current build then (Tome and Weapon)

[stuck bane]

Wasn’t shield implement also a new one?

[sacred bluff]

Shield was in battlecry iirc

[warped orbit]

Yeah

[turbid dagger]

Starfinder 2e module in beta, and.........
Those are tokens, borders, and map for Guilt Of The Graveworld 👁️

The foundry module is real..................

[warped orbit]

I believe they said they wanna keep the two modules compatible too

[balmy orchid]

quastion

how do summoner do

[solar storm]

It’s complicated and you need to be careful about which feats and options you take because they are sort of uneven but it is also a very unique and fun class

[warped orbit]

punch things with eidolon, cast spells with the Summoner

[balmy orchid]

What are some traps?

I'm going undead eidolon for an exorcist vibe

[solar storm]

I think anger phantom is kinda one people talk about being kinda iffy?

I think Undead is good?

[warped orbit]

it's not great

Undead is okay I think

[balmy orchid]

https://i.imgur.com/R451dnE.png

Especially when I also have negative healing it doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff

just gotta occassionally blow myself up with Harm

[solar storm]

My recollection is that it’s mostly solid and negative healing is very party composition dependent

It’s inconvenient if a cleric wants to blast off 3 action Heals or whatever

[balmy orchid]

I'm playing a Jiangshi Dhampir

[warped orbit]

it would actually be slightly better if you don't both have the same one technically
but if your party is accomodating to negative healing, it'll be fine

[balmy orchid]

Isn't it better when I have harm?

so I can heal both of us

[warped orbit]

hmm, I don't remember how Summoner treats AoE heals

[balmy orchid]

Also which statblock should I go with?

[warped orbit]

okay it's the same as damage, so only the greater one

[warped orbit]

Stalker has maxed AC from the go, Brute will deal slightly more damage

[balmy orchid]

Stalker being tankier is kinda funny

I think I'm more interested in having a meatbag tank for me than having one deal damage

[warped orbit]

Brute will catch up at level 5, but until then it's 1 AC behind

[balmy orchid]

our party is a human samurai monk, a pixie sorcerer, and a naga war cleric

So 2 people focused on close range dps and one person who's leaning more controlly and status effecty

So I think I'm Ranged Damage

[warped orbit]

due to the eidolon you will kinda be semi melee anyway

a pretty classic Summoner turn is using Tandem Movement to move both of you, then Cast a Spell with the Summoner and use Act Together to Strike with the eidolon

[balmy orchid]

Gotcha gotcha

[warped orbit]

In general, Act Together is very key for Summoner

But it's also a bit tricky to get used to

It's sorta like having four actions between both of you, but not exactly

[balmy orchid]

Is Advanced Weaponry the go-to level 1 feat for it?

[warped orbit]

extra tags is nice to have, though I think the eidolon is unarmed anyway

but it's probably still useful yeah

[balmy orchid]

Hmm hmm

Though question

if I give it Energy Heart, will that let it attack ghosts?

[warped orbit]

vitality is an energy type, so you could choose that

[balmy orchid]

Does vitality deal extra damage or is it just the allowance of damage?

[warped orbit]

it'd just circumvent ghost resistance
but only hurt undead

I forget if the eidolon has one or two attacks

ah right, you have primary and secondary

so you could put energy heart on one of them

[turbid dagger]

The idea with undead summoners is that one can get healed with vitality and one with void, so in essence you can get healed by both, which depending on comp can be very useful or nothing of consequence

[rotund geode]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UOly8_Fciwr7vXfrdKng4hcpqrFl5rx1Da1rmViQL8g/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.tjz5fj5ix7na
I used this guide

[balmy orchid]

oh this is pretty good

though the spells seem completely off

[surreal basin]

OKAY so really really important

You and your eidolon share MAP

So if one of you is big on attacks the other can’t be

[balmy orchid]

what does this mean

[turbid dagger]

Do you know what MAP means

Anyhow in general it translates to 'summoner does saves, eidolon does strikes' which is what summoner wants to do anyway

[balmy orchid]

I asked what it means as I do not know what it means

[fossil dome]

More attack per turn = less accurate attacks

[balmy orchid]

Gotcha

kindnna

[fossil dome]

-5 to hit per attack for all following attacks

To a max of -10

[balmy orchid]

Ah okay

But that doesn't matter with saves right?

[fossil dome]

Correct

[turbid dagger]

Very sorry, I just genuinely didn't know if you meant MAP or the what Emily was saying in general
But yes
Your first strike on your turn is normal, then -5, then -10
And yes, save spells dodge that entirely

[balmy orchid]

So attack with ghost first

then save spells

[turbid dagger]

So as a summoner your sort of max damage nova setup is two eidolon strikes, then a save spell

Generally it's seen as 'alright' to make the -5 attack but the -10 is typically a bad idea even if you have accuracy buffs out the wazoo

[fossil dome]

Now

A -4, from flurry ranger

That's very tasty

[balmy orchid]

Also we get free archetypes

so I am getting Exorcist I think

[turbid dagger]

Yeahh this MAP breakdown is entirely ignoring Agile, which all Eidolons get on one of their attacks, but that only matters a little

[turbid dagger]

Exorcist is neat!

[balmy orchid]

It do be a ghost story

[turbid dagger]

Note, for Spirit's Absolution, it is Vitality so one half of you would need to be alive for that

[balmy orchid]

I may just ask my DM to allow that switch

[turbid dagger]

A lot of GMs will allow something like that for sure

[balmy orchid]

My backup character is gonna be a Cavalier

based on Ashikaga

[fossil dome]

Cavalier?

That's not in 2e, yet, at any rate

[balmy orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/yukal-princess-mononoke-chase-running-action-gif-25147730

[balmy orchid]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=244&Redirected=1

don't eva call me a liar again........................

[fossil dome]

Ahhh, archetype

I was thinking you meant class

[balmy orchid]

But yeah, horse archer seems fun

[balmy orchid]

Our monk and pixie have neat builds

duelist katana-focused monk and wing warrior pixie

[turbid dagger]

Katana focused monk? Funky
I assume the GM let that fly somehow

[balmy orchid]

Its rule abiding

I just forget how

[balmy orchid]

Also decided on shears for his melee weapon of choice

despite being a fucked up little freak the vibe is very much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQ8sa0HPtQ

[tight flare]

Have Paizo said anything about what's in the new Magus update?

[clever cobalt]

Dont believe so, it was just announced via the new book

Could be wrong though

[tight flare]

I'm really curious about changes

Action economy always feels very strained

Having played a magus from 11-20 and now starting another one over from level 1

[wraith snow]

Admittedly I felt action econ was fine when I played mine from 1-20, though you do just kind of accept that prep-turns are gonna happen by nature of what the class does

[steel blade]

i'm hoping they do like with ranger and like, have some feats become a core part of the class and buff the ones that underperform
particularly Expansive Spellstrike, which sounds neat but has the unfortunate effect of hitting yourself with most Burst spells unless you're Starlit Span

[frank crystal]

Oh my god, I only now realize that the reason foundry separates your sheet’s art and your token’s art is so you can have your full art on your sheet and your token on your token

[steel blade]

roll20 does too iirc

its slightly more obvious in roll20 even, i think? cause when the GM edits a given character's sheet it'll have a spot for character art and a spot for the token

meanwhile foundry annoyingly still requires you to open the hamburger menu and then open the prototype token thing to change the token art (though there's some modules that make this less of a hassle, like Tokenizer, which is mostly made for creating tokens, but it lets you set the token art from the same window you'd use to make one, which is opened by clicking to change the character art)

[echo briar]

My only hope is that the team that worked on psychic and the team that worked on magus talked to each other and they didn't double nerf IW spell strike.

I'm halfway expecting them to just prevent magus from spellstriking with focus spells, which would mean that the IW nerf was double pointless.

[wraith snow]

They already changed amped cantrips to be a spellshape so you can't spellstrike with them anyways

At this point I'm half expecting them to nerf Grasping Claw just to fuck with people

[errant roost]

what are the odds that they errata away one of the nerfs?

[wraith snow]

I feel like it's definitely non-zero

They tend to be very responsive to community consensus, and I've seen almost no positive reactions to the psychic changes.

[warped orbit]

that would be horrible for Magus unless they received some serious compensatory buffs elsewhere

[warped orbit]

low IMO

[warped orbit]

tbh it's not even that the IW nerf was that impactful
it's that Psychic also got no other significant positive changes either

[wraith snow]

Honestly I just want to see more decent attacking spells, I get that they feel bad for everyone who isn't Magus but it does really suck for Magus to have like 3 options without taking a dedication and another feat

[warped orbit]

the only thing that will stop Magus dipping out for other stuff would be getting a strong focus spell they can Spellstrike with

and better feats

[wraith snow]

Itd feel less mandatory with any good slot options imo

[warped orbit]

they have too few slots for that mostly

cantrips and focus spells are your best bet for spellstriking most of the time, especially if you want to do it a lot

[wraith snow]

Yeah, I just think having any options before disintegrate would do them well

[warped orbit]

Disintegrate still isn't even that good I think, for the usual reasons of introducing another point of failure

it'll often be better to use your slots for big saves, mobility, or buffs/utility

ultimately the IW nerf changes relatively little for Magus

you just dip Cleric or Champion instead now, and pick up a nice domain spell like Fire Ray

[wraith snow]

Yeah, Sorc has... some options, but Fire Ray seems like the current winner

[rustic cape]

Yeah, the problem is actually just wave-casting imo

Because magus doesn't need such a hard limit on spells/day when it has such tight action economy

[trail nova]

God I hate how Pazio ruined 6-casters.

[turbid dagger]

Magus is literally fine 😭

[errant roost]

I was going to ask: obvs reddit thinks the sky is falling, Magus and Psychic are doomed, etc. but that's reddit. how are they actually?

[turbid dagger]

I have no in depth experience with psychic, but Magus is Extremely Extremely Fine
You are a martial with Super Vicious Swing and a few spells

It's main downside is that you are basically just doing one thing in combat

Since it's main damage thing is an action granted by a class feature, you can't really customize What You Do to the extent of a fighter or whatever

[warped orbit]

It's okay

People aren't even dooming about Magus tbh

It's the same it's been

[rustic cape]

Magus is still fine

[warped orbit]

Just minus one good tool now

[rustic cape]

Psychic is mostly just disappointing for multiclassing

Since before the dedication was a very good pickup just for the focus point

[warped orbit]

Psychic dedication went from very good to kinda eh

The class itself also barely changed, when it kinda needed a boost after the remaster

[frank crystal]

What are they changing the classes or the dedications?

[warped orbit]

Both, kind of

Main Psychic got very few changes

[rustic cape]

Magus is in the same place that it's always been, which is to say that it is perfectly adequate

They use cantrips and focus spells to do big hits

[frank crystal]

What are they?

[rustic cape]

They have cool abilities

[turbid dagger]

I actually really like Sparkling Targe Magus
It can sometimes be tricky to find the actions to raise shield but

Spellstrike makes up for one hander damage and the shield does a lot of work to remove the glass from the cannon and just make you cast iron like a normal cannon

[rustic cape]

My point here was just that giving the magus the ability to mix it up more with spells on spellstrikes would be more interesting but not a ton more powerful

[warped orbit]

Amps are now a free action you take before Cast a Spell, instead of something you do as part of it. Meaning amps are now incompatible with activities and reactions
Unleash applies to duration spells, but only the first roll
Some spell changes for the subclasses

[frank crystal]

Oh ok

[rustic cape]

This does mean that by RAW some of the amped cantrips do not work

Everyone will ignore that

So it doesn't really matter

[warped orbit]

Uhh, some of the space focused unique cantrips got buffed but are still meh
Like Vector Screen and one other