Pathfinder

[frank crystal]

All but like 2 crossbows fucking suck

The arbalest, gauntlet bow and sukgung seem to be the only ones that actually like, have a niche

[warped orbit]

those are the good ones, yes

[frank crystal]

Unless there’s another free hand ranged weapon I’m missing

Man I wish the backpack ballista was good so fucking bad

[warped orbit]

Arbalest Gunslinger is funnily also one of the more consistent Gunslinger builds

[frank crystal]

It’s such a funny weapon but it’s awful in practice

Like, I’m fine with it being kinda just a one time use thing because reload 1 minute

But you could have at least given it like deadly so that one shot counts

[frank crystal]

Yah the arbalest is just generally solid

D10 base damage and backstabber are nice

[warped orbit]

it's mostly because of Crossbow Crack Shot

[frank crystal]

Good consistency

[warped orbit]

and the Arbalest having backstabber for that

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I forgot about crackshot

Kinda funny that is sorta Paizo’s bandaid fix for crossbows being so bad though

Gunslingers have a feat that just says “if you’re using a crossbow, do more damage”

[warped orbit]

it's a lot of damage is the thing

which helps with ranged damage being a bit rough sometimes

the bonus is big enough that even on crits, crossbows remain competitive
while having much higher regular hit damage

[frank crystal]

On an off guard enemy it’s like:

1d10+2+2+1d4?

At base with no runes

[fast hill]

have a really cool character idea

war mage captain

[small meteor]

Can I hear more?

[fast hill]

was thinking a war mage captain who focuses on having a shieldbearer to protect him while acting as backline 10ft from the enemy

staying close so you dont need to stride very much so you can use 2 actions for spells, one action for your follower

[small meteor]

Woagh, dat good. I like that. What kinda folk is it?

[eager mountain]

https://youtu.be/1MUvUzSQmX4

[rustic cape]

@craggy thunder you’re a level 20 earth/air kineticist/monk dual class with two-element invocation. You can pick one of the following:

• Desert Wind fuse stanced with Crowned in Tempest’s Fury, with Kinetic Pinnacle.
• As above, but with Rebirth In Living Stone instead of kinetic pinnacle.
• Desert Wind fused with Assume Earth’s Mantle, with Rebirth In Living Stone and Kinetic Pinnacle.
  Which do you choose?

(The last of the three also opens up the chance to take a monk feat at 18th level.)

(The first hypothetically opens up the ability to mix in fire shenanigans)

[craggy thunder]

Uuuuuuuhhhh

First one

[frank crystal]

Chatroom, anything neat I can swipe from druid for my own druid villain?

Mechanically

[fast hill]

uncertain! Just kinda came up with the concept

[rustic cape]

Hm. Does Taunting Strike work with Group Taunt?

[frank crystal]

I don’t think so with how meta strikes normally work

Also I didn’t realize until I looked them up for this question

Guardian and commander are on AON

[rustic cape]

Yep

[craggy thunder]

They indeed are lol

Also as a sidenote I'm sad I'm not gonna be able to get my partner into 2e lmao

Cuz his pet favorite got axed

[frank crystal]

What was it?

[craggy thunder]

Forgepriest

An archetype of a class that's become an archetype lmao

[rustic cape]

Was that a 1e class?

[frank crystal]

Ohhh an old 1e class

[craggy thunder]

1e warpriest class archetype

One of his oldest ocs is his dwarf forgepriest

[frank crystal]

Also wait that’s an archetype?

I can’t find it

[craggy thunder]

Well 1e warpriest at first became a normal cleric doctrine

But warpriest's mechanical chassis is much more similar to Battle Harbinger, a cleric class archetype

i.e. much more martially focused to the point of no longer being a full spellcaster

[rustic cape]

... might runepriest do what he wants?

Er, runesmith.

[frank crystal]

Oh I meant in 2e

[craggy thunder]

eeeehhhhh, she's a biiiiit picky?

And forgepriest is both a priest, which runesmith can be, but is Int based, and is very focused on crafting whole items not applying unique runes

[craggy thunder]

1e warpriest has basically become 2e Battle Harbinger

[rustic cape]

Martial with magical powers, some ability at crafting, and strong fluff ties to dwarves is just why I thought of it.

[craggy thunder]

Oh for sure

If I was in his situation that's what I would do, but as I have said she's a bit picky lmao

[rustic cape]

(Alternating pronouns?)

[craggy thunder]

bigender lol

[rustic cape]

(Gotcha.)

(Just want to make sure I don't make an error.)

[craggy thunder]

ur good lol

they them is the closest to an error and even then she's like 'meh'

[frank crystal]

Ohhh

[craggy thunder]

And like

Battle Harbinger is cool

It also is not what my partner would want

XD

[novel merlin]

The Infinite customization dials of pf1e does give people a lot of hangups on other games

Archetype stacking and such

[craggy thunder]

from what I understand she really just used forgepriest

[vocal ember]

I think you could make something like that as a doctrine maybe.

Well, maybe doctrine + class archetype like the battle harbringer

[craggy thunder]

I might homebrew it for fun lol

[vocal ember]

I'm trying to do that right now lol

[craggy thunder]

Someone is 100% going to go war mage into bastion and become annoying as fuck for the GM

not bastion, sentinel

oh huh, sentinel doesn't offer greater proficiency than expert

to war mage anyway

[warped orbit]

Sentinel never makes your proficiency any faster

It just gives you more

[craggy thunder]

It also doesn't increase proficiency beyond expert unless your unarmored goes above expert

which afaik wizard's doesn't lol

[warped orbit]

Yeah that's what I meant

[craggy thunder]

mm

[craggy thunder]

god

hobgoblins are so fucking cool

[tribal steeple]

Hobgoblin Commander time

[rustic cape]

Gnoll commander ftw

[craggy thunder]

Gnoll is cool too but hobgoblin has that juice for commander imo

[tribal steeple]

Anadi Commander whose tactics are communicated to people by tugging on silk threads attached to people in morse code

[wooden orbit]

TIME FOR THE HOBGOBLINS TO RISE UP!

[frank crystal]

What are hobgoblins doing in Golarion?

I know they’re generally militaristic and maybe kinda, imperial Prussia?

That’s the vibe I got from their ancestry art anyway

[craggy thunder]

So, there are two main big Hobgoblin nations

[turbid dagger]

Most notably, they recently annexed some land and made a goblin country

[craggy thunder]

The nation of Oprak, founded by Azaersi and her Ironfang Legion taking over areas of Molthune and Nirmathas starting in 4717 AR

[warped orbit]

the Ironfang Legion specifically is doing that

[turbid dagger]

They are trying to play nice to ensure that Oprak actually continues to exist, as their leader Azaersi specifically wants a permanent hobgoblin homeland in the inner sea

[craggy thunder]

And their sister nation in Tian Xia's Darklands, Rahk Lo

[frank crystal]

Ah neat

[craggy thunder]

Which they are connected to via a series of paths through the Elemental Plane of Earth, the Stone Roads

Accessed via the Onyx Key, an artifact in Azaersi's possession

in fact, a well-kept secret about Oprak is the fact they have territory in the Plane of Earth

Territory that is of a greater extent than Oprak's Material Plane territories

Another Tian nation the Hobgoblins of Oprak have contact with is Kaoling, a nation ruled by a conquering hobgoblin minority

though diplomatic relations are somewhat complex given Kaoling's radical traditionalism and regimentation even in comparison to Oprak itself

Oprak has also started establishing ties with the Pathfinder Society, sending veterans of the Ironfang Invasion to join the Society and prove themselves a useful ally

Which is the reason my current character is in my group!

They're a veteran of the Ironfang Invasion, leader of a squad of the Barghest Corps, a crack group of saboteurs, siege experts, and assassins

Mastermind Rogue with Alchemist archetype for bombs :3

[frank crystal]

Oh sick

[craggy thunder]

Fun hobgoblin/goblinoid headcanon

their ears can flick like cats

[wooden orbit]

I think you forgot it's on Tian Xia's surface too, they took over one of the kingdoms in Tian Xia.

Oh, I see you mentioned it x-x

My bad

[craggy thunder]

lelel

You fool! I am the hobgoblin master!

https://tenor.com/view/louise-gif-8329312758599767296

[rustic cape]

Journey of the Sky Chariot, hm

[clever cobalt]

The Hobgoblins in the the Tian Xia Darklands are mostly peaceful and, unlike the other two Hobgoblin nations, aren't expansionist, and actually want to cooperate with others

[wooden orbit]

Shameful, they must be introduced to our peaceful imperialistic ways....

BY FORCE

[clever cobalt]

Having said that I love Oprak in the sense of it being a "Monster Nation"

And, to their credit, are also trying to work with other Inner Sea nations, especially when it comes to fighting the Whispering Tyrant

I recall Belkzen also doing something similar, especially post-Godsrain

[wooden orbit]

Yeah, Belkzen is trying to be less like they've historically been with their neighbors and the current defacto leader of the region is doing a bunch of reforms and shit, and reaching out to the neighboring nations to form alliances.

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

IIRC they were actually one of the less impacted nations of the Godsrain, partially by virtue of the Orc Pantheon already being in upheaval by the time of Gorum's death

Triumph of the Tusk goes into this, but I haven't played that AP

[wooden orbit]

Its one of the APs I. REALLY. WANT. TO. FUCKING. PLAY!

[clever cobalt]

It does seem neat

[wooden orbit]

We're getting two APs for the Hellfire Crisis.

First one is 1-10, and that's the Hellbreakers AP next year.

I'm gonna try to get into the Pathfinder Society stuff for this coming up new season since it's all about the Hellfire Crisis.

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[wooden orbit]

After the initial Warshard stuff.

[clever cobalt]

Still need to read the lore on the War

[fossil dome]

All of them are, lol

[clever cobalt]

I haven't gotten the chance to read Battlecry yet sadly

I know vaguely its Andoran vs Cheliax but thats basically the extent of it

But yeah the Hellbreakers AP did pique my interest

[wooden orbit]

The ones I really want to play is SoT, ToTT, Myth-Speaker, Blood Lords, Tomb of the Sky-King, Season of Ghosts, Spore War, maybe Wardens of Wildwood. And definitely the new Runelord one later this year

[clever cobalt]

Did any other nations get pulled into the war yet

[wooden orbit]

Which may mean playing Seven Dooms of Sandpoint beforehand.

[clever cobalt]

Yeah the runelord one also looks neat

[fossil dome]

Yeah, it really does

[wooden orbit]

Not yet, but its probably gonna happen over the course of next year.

[fossil dome]

I just hope we get remaster hardcovers of all the 1e APs

[clever cobalt]

I feel like the Necromancer/Runesmith playtest kinda confirms that Nex and Geb are going to war again as well

Probably involved in the Hellfire Crisis

And taking sides

[fossil dome]

Ooooh, possibly

[clever cobalt]

Personally I kinda wanna see Nex with Cheliax and Geb with Andoran

If partially because I like odd relationships

[wooden orbit]

Right now its just steadily increasing tensions and then things going hot after the Battle of Hellknight Hill. Said battle resulting in Abrogail II deciding in response to the loophole Andoran exploited to claim all Hellknight Orders as hers. Which has resulted in the Orders who decided otherwise losing or intentionally dropping their titles, and distancing themselves from Cheliax. And everybody else becoming a part of the state.

I'm hoping Taldor sides with Cheliax.

Cause that makes for an interesting pair.

[clever cobalt]

And Fantasy American Ideal allying with Nectomancer Nation may cause some interesting dynamics

Especially when Geb is also where 90% of the Inner Sea's food is grown or something

[wooden orbit]

Yeah the Inner Sea breadbasket is Geb.

[clever cobalt]

Yeah it's the only reason basically anyone tolerates them

[wooden orbit]

Which is why Geb is currently trying to stop a literal living plague from spreading further.

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

[wooden orbit]

Since they can't be having their undead workforce becoming fully living again.

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

Plus, yknow, undead supremacy also being challenged

Since the upper class of Geb isnt immune to the disease either

[fossil dome]

Oh, wait, is that what the living plague is?

That's dope

The un-zombie disease

[clever cobalt]

My weird Political Team up idea is Geb (the person and/or the Nation) somehow allying with the Knights of Lastwall

[craggy thunder]

my other character in the game (dm is running the game to familiarize the players with the system, so is letting everyone create multiple characters), my minotaur battle harbinger, is the mother of a linebreaker in the Legion, who joined after Molthune cleared out their settlement

[clever cobalt]

Because Geb, as evil as he may be, is pragmatic

And also doesn't like the Whispering Tyrant

[fossil dome]

So Zombie Lex?

[clever cobalt]

Lex luthor?

[fossil dome]

Yeah

[wooden orbit]

Understandable, given that Tar-Baphon doesn't like him.

[clever cobalt]

Geb is sorta like that

[fossil dome]

He has helped Superman on several occasions

[clever cobalt]

Hes basically the only one that rivals Tar Baphon in terms of Necormantic Power

And in a weird way I think that can be used to the KoL's benefit

Know your enemy and whatnot

[clever cobalt]

And yeah, sorta like that

[clever cobalt]

Neat, who do they worship?

[craggy thunder]

She is a Shelynite

[clever cobalt]

Anyways im also wondering which sides will be picked in the first Golarion World War in general

Neat

[craggy thunder]

She has the highland cattle hair over her eyes going on

and I decided her whole hair would be patchword dyed in rainbow colors

[clever cobalt]

Ooh, I like that aesthetic

Nice

Also weird question

[craggy thunder]

her name is Dulcinea :3

[clever cobalt]

Does Geb have diplomats? And if so, are they alive or undead?

[fossil dome]

I do love me a pragmatic villain

Mhm

Also ones, such as some Lexes, who have a deeper agenda than "kill Superman"

[steel blade]

if she doesnt have a fighter with the cavaliar archetype constantly showing up trying to woo her, your GM is doing something wrong

[craggy thunder]

She's trying to get the noble summoner's retainer champion to try some beef but he's insisting he's vegetarian

XD

He's even a dwarf and she's a stonemason and smith

(for those worrying, no she is not harassing a gay guy he's like, dutysexual lol)

"I am here to do a job, so while you flatter me I cannot let myself get distracted" type beat

[wooden orbit]

Spoilers

[solar storm]

Yeah I'll join that please don't post AP spoilers unspoiled

Deleted the posts @clever cobalt (I am also playing through OoA rn haha)

[clever cobalt]

gotcha, my bad

apologies

[solar storm]

nw

I didn't read em closely

[clever cobalt]

How is OoA? Never got past the first book myself

[solar storm]

I'm near the end of book 2 and it's been pretty good

Book 2 starts off whack but I really like the rest of it

[tribal steeple]

Pressed the delete button with your adventurer-standard-issue 11ft pole

It's 11ft long so you can use it to touch things you wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole

[solar storm]

(It's a very extended skill challenge and it felt like the skill challenge system got a little stale before the task finished)

I admittedly don't love skill challenges that much outside of like races and chases

[clever cobalt]

neat

[tribal steeple]

Speaking of alternate rule/ subsystems, has anyone tried the duel rules? We did it once in kingmaker and it was BORING. Each duelist just kept using the same option repeatedly because all other options were just objectively inferior

[frozen flame]

We did a magic duel in the campaign I'm in now

Which really wants you to be able to counterspell because it uses a variant of the duel subsystem based entirely on that

[solar storm]

That seems to happen a lot unless both sides are credibly good at multiple options

[tribal steeple]

Yeah. If you have your One Good Thing, there didn't seem to be any reason to ever not do that

[wooden orbit]

https://bsky.app/profile/phoebebane.bsky.social/post/3lvhf4qgxys2i

Phoebe Bane (@phoebebane.bsky.social)

Starfinder galactic ancestries revealed!

The cover has a Bantrid, Goblin, Izalguun and Kasatha on it!

Formians, cool playable ooze dudes, are visiting each pathfinder ancestry with space options like Void Elves, and expanding each sf2 player core ancestry like PF2e's Ancestry guide did!!!

Bluesky · Aug 3, 2025, 12:07 AM

[clever cobalt]

Still waiting on SROs

[astral prawn]

I cannot understand why peeps find Counteract so damn hard to wrap their head around at times

I'm with a group where easily half the group, no matter how often it comes up, seem to need a lot of help understanding how counteracting checks work

Is it just me or something? Are they actually really odd and strange rules?

I feel like an arse at times

[frozen flame]

Because this chart is incomprehensible if you don't read the accompanying text

And I think most people just look at it and go "ah, yeah, nope. not doing that"

[clever cobalt]

Yeah reading that list would make no sense if I didnt know the context already

[astral prawn]

Idk isn't that like arguing a game is complicated if you play it for the first time and skip the tutorials?

[plucky snow]

Success also depends on both the counteract rank and the target's DC
I don't think anything else in the game really works like that

[astral prawn]

Ngl I can see from the chart alone it being confusing

The description of how counteracting work is simple enough for me

[frozen flame]

Not quite, I think, because counteracting is so rare. You can play a spellcaster who never does it.

And if you're not the one playing the spellcaster, you can easily just say "yeah I'm not learning how this works, ever"

[astral prawn]

That's fair I suppose

Then you got people who just walk into the rules and don't know how they work and are figuring it out on the fly

Or do spells assuming they work a certain way and don't read the actual spell text

[frozen flame]

"I really don't want this spell to land on the fighter so I'll counter it but I have never once done this oh no what do I do"

(This is also how you discover things like "taking Quick Identification is important, actually!" They don't tell you this in Wizard School but it's true)

[astral prawn]

This is also on a session where peeps were definitely getting frustrated, myself included

[tribal steeple]

Every single time counteracting comes up, it's after long enough that I've totally forgotten how we figured it out last time.

It simply isn't a common enough occurrence unless you're specifically looking to counteract things all the time, so it gets relegated to the dust-collecting corner where everyone forgets it until one player remembers they have JUST THE THING to save the day - but it calls for a counteract check and nobody remembers what the modifiers are supposed to be

In my group there's a Wizard who recently got into all the big boy counterspelling feats and is ANTSY to counterspell enemy casters, so it's 100% his job to know how counteracting works and nobody else in the party has any reason to remember it because they can't counteract anything on a remotely regular basis.

[craggy thunder]

battlecry added a fucking shield implement for thaum lmao

b r u h

[clever cobalt]

Yep

Its actually decent, at least on paper

[limber comet]

I feel like even the "bad implements" still have their uses just bc Thaum is cracked

The three classes that got New Stuff are Sorc, Summ, and Thaum

With some mount related feats for Champion and the Cavalier archetype

[small meteor]

thinking. With ABP and Free Archetype as an Exemplar, I am unsure what I should take for my level 6 class feat. Candidates are Flow of War, Reactive Strike, and Scout Dedication.

[craggy thunder]

I mean it's good, but shields not being accessible to Thaum was a balancing point on the class

[rustic cape]

What's your free archetype in?

The forbidden tech is to take archetype feats with your regular class feats on levels where nothing interests you.

Flow of War and Reactive Strike are both rock-solid, though.

[eager mountain]

well you see, they have an in.

[rustic cape]

Kingmaker update: the Stag Lord is dead, now we just have to fight the owlbear I let out of its cage.

[eager mountain]

one way this could happen is that geb might have a thing going with Galt.

becuase Dranoch, the lady that runs galt now, IS undead

[clever cobalt]

True

[wooden orbit]

I think they've mentioned before that Camilia Drannoch has seeked an alliance with Geb, since she's been looking for help to care for the souls that were in the final blades. ....Though now there's of course the angry undead in Galt.

[rustic cape]

We beat the owlbear but our exemplar died and our inventor is leaving because they did not expect this level of chaos gremlin (the same player will return with a different, more chaos gremlin inventor).

The exemplar is getting replaced with a yaoguai custom mixed heritage automaton dragon ancestry sorcerer. Which. Is probably a good idea. And also the epitome of PF.

[eager mountain]

the recent shining kingdoms book also mentions shes undead

becuase she was killed by a final blade, but some how ressurected untrapped

I think shes a dulahan

[wooden orbit]

Bet Camillia would just love to have a chat with the leader of the Broken Ghosts.

[wooden orbit]

If my minotaur dies in the middle of our first dungeon, in my friend's Extinction Curse campaign....I'm super tempted to bring the Contemplative Witchwarper I'm working on into the campaign, if allowed.

[echo briar]

Battlecry was printed in the US.

I guess us Americans won’t have to worry about tariffs

[rustic cape]

Is psychic the only multiclass archetype that immediately grants a focus point?

[warped orbit]

I think so yeah

[vocal ember]

I guess teeeeeeechnically Witch Dedication can via the Familiar Focus familiar ability (but that is quite literally a focus point)

[hasty dawn]

I rolled up a munitions master I'll probably never get to play, was very lol, lmao at having 8 bulk at lv1

[rustic cape]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/epictellers/starfinder-afterlight Investigating this SF2e CRPG kickstarter, doesn't look like there's much to look out for yet. Teaser trailer sounds professionally voice acted, About page for them on kickstarter say they're a team of 30 headed by two triple A veterans, but only gives first names and no other details.

Not much to see on their website (screencaps from it) https://www.epictellers.com/news/starfinder-afterlight-announcement

Draws:

• Turn-based
• Allegedly done in partnership with Paizo
• Professional-sounding VA in the teaser
  Risks:
• Not much information on who these people are
• First game from this studio

[warped orbit]

not much to do but wait and see how it turns out for now

[hasty dawn]

I do hope it's good, bc I'd be down to play a witchwarper mc

[rustic cape]

Yeah I’m very hopeful

But we’ll know more in the future.

[limber comet]

I'm optimistic

[tribal steeple]

The exemplar character should just have been relegated to an off screen Greek Tragedy story adventure post-death where he journeys through the underworld seeking a way back to the land of the living

[rustic cape]

So funny story. That exemplar was specced for fire damage. My barbarian is about to take exemplar dedication and become extremely fire oriented. I have proposed that she got the exemplar’s divine spark.

[rustic cape]

... hm, is it possible to combine the shield from Hardwood Armor with Armor In Earth?

[solar thorn]

Running this homebrew item by people real quick so that I don't snap my game in half. A necklace that gives the following reaction:

Reaction
1 / Day
Trigger: A fiend makes a save against one of your effects or spells.
Effect: The three eyes on your necklace flare with ruby light. If the fiend is equal or lower level to you, it treats its level of success on the save as one level worse. If the fiend is higher level than you, it is instead frightened 1 until the end of its next turn```
Very powerful, but my party faces many fights in a day and this can't body a boss.

I want to give my casters something to make their save or die effects feel not quite as bad when I spike the dice with PL -2 and -3 mooks

[rustic cape]

That's very powerful but I think somewhat manageable.

If you wanted to tone it down a bit more, you could make the cap on the save reduction (level-1) instead of (level).

[warped orbit]

it is pretty strong, but as a 1/day it's okay probably

[solar thorn]

I'll probably do PL -1, yeah

thank you!

[limber comet]

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/531728/Magic?affiliate_id=1916517

Come get your slotless casting y'all

[warped orbit]

Hmm, I am kinda curious what Team+ did for this
But not quite 20 bucks curious

[turbid dagger]

I can tell you a bit
You can only cast spells up to your Essence Level- you usually start each encounter with your essence at any value of your choice up to 2 below the max rank of spell you can cast, with the pool capped at, well, the max ran of spell you can cast
Every time you cast a slot spell of 2 actions or more, your essence level goes up by 1
When it would go over your essence pool cap, it instead resets to 0, giving you a cycle benefit and requiring you to get your essence back up by casting a draw cantrip (any cantrip that is 2 actions or more), which increases your essence to a level up to the one I listed above
So if you can cast rank 9 spells, you start each encounter at essence 7 (or lower if you want), and if essence would go to 10 you reset to 0 and need to cast a cantrip to get it up to 7 (or lower if you want) again

So the basic gist is you start combat having to cast a little under your max rank of spell, but build up to casting your most powerful spell before getting knocked back down to the low ranks

To solve the issue of castin spells outside of combat, this system of essence castin only functions in encounters- spells cast this way end as soon as the fight is over
Instead, you cast out of combat by using Incantations, which are versions of your slot spells that take 20 seconds to cast
Whenever you cast an Incantation, your essence pool's max value is reduced by 1, and you need to refocus to reset it (if you have an Incantation with a duration active, you can dismiss it to free up that bit of essence)

[rustic cape]

Looking at ancestries, in particular Surki, again and. Lantern Beam seems like a pretty wild ability?

[warped orbit]

it's decent early on, and then gets outscaled pretty quickly
but for only being one action it's not bad

[rustic cape]

Like yeah it's got a cooldown, and subsequent uses cost two actions but.

It's a 1-action AoE that does (rank)d4 damage.

[limber comet]

Essence Casting is super cool

This is just the best team+ product

[turbid dagger]

I do like it
I wonder how it combos with magitek inventor, if at all

[limber comet]

Here's a flowchart I got from the Team+ server about how it flows

[turbid dagger]

This is very helpful but I can already see my friends going 'this is not less complicated than spell slots'

[limber comet]

The monkey's paw curls I suppose

"We want a new casting system!"

Gets something balanced and unique but a little complicated

"Fuck, I was just hoping I could have free fireball whenever"

I'm also in love with the new Summon/Battleform stuff

[warped orbit]

well it's not really about being simpler necessarily tbh

also flowcharts IME always make things seem more complicated

but yeah this doesn't seem too difficult in effect

[fossil dome]

Did Gencon bring any new PF announcements?

[limber comet]

No

1 new SF announcement though

An untitled Ancestry book and an untitled Adventure

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee but Magic+ does make the claim that essence casting is equally complex as slot casting, it's just unfamiliar

[limber comet]

I also really like the power rings being a caster equivalent to a...uhhh

Gate attenuator

With some property runes too

[rotund geode]

I think the next "Themed sourcebook" should be Expert themed

Like the whole world of the setting that Rogues, Swashbucklers, and Investigators exist in
"Guys who are good at skills and deal precision damage"

Basically everyone has got one instead except experts has gotten a book now, they deserve the love

[fossil dome]

Ooooh, that would be cool

[rotund geode]

Arcane had secrets of magic
Occult had dark archive
Primal had rage of the elements
Divine had Divine Mysteries
Martials had Battlecry

Guns and gears... exists and feels in this tradition but is a lot more tennous

Experts have arguably the least treaded ground of any group too, and I could see a lot of potential with a new expert or two

[fossil dome]

What sort of classes were you thinking?

[rotund geode]

I'm not really sure off the top of my head 😅
it is 2am for me, and im not good at thinking right now

[fossil dome]

More than fair, lol

[rotund geode]

I leave this as an exercise to the reader

However I feel like there is something to be done with "Guy who is good at wisdom and wisdom based skills"

[fossil dome]

Archivist, say?

[rotund geode]

Yeah!!!

[fossil dome]

Or Lorekeeper

[rotund geode]

I was gonna say some sort of Doctor could be cool

But I feel like there are multiple doctor flavored subclasses for existing classes

Existing experts even

[fossil dome]

Ooooh, Diplomat would be a cool class

[rotund geode]

Diplomat would be cool!

And very inkeping with the vibes actually

[fossil dome]

Only issue I see is overlap with Envoy

But I haven't read SF2 Envoy

[rotund geode]

The other angle to distance it from envoy is to make it about being like

A politican or firebrand

Similar vibe but with a more internal and ambitious tilt

[fossil dome]

oooh, Yeah

Issue is then Commander's toes

[fast hill]

GM wont let me take captain (we already have kingmaker companions) so instead I am going commander with marshal archetype

Marshal is a natural fit for Int/Cha commander

[fast hill]

Lotta marshal abilities that use Warfare Lore 🥳

[small meteor]

Hm, that'd make a good thematic dedication for Bǎihé then. (We're thinking a lot about her)

[fast hill]

Yeah marshal is super thematic if you mix it with commander

And theres plenty of levels of commander without great feat choices to throw in the dedication

[small meteor]

Mhm. She has Warfare Lore, and.. Well, pre-poisoning, she actually was a superb tactician and general. Now she has.. Nobody to command.

[rustic cape]

My experiences with Animist have led me to really enjoy spell slot management.

[fast hill]

Animist is very cool

Our kingmaker party is a champion, melee ranger, monk, commander and animist

Animist has put in work

[rustic cape]

Alseta says trans rights!

[rustic cape]

Can anyone tell me about elves in Tian Xia?

[craggy thunder]

iirc they traveled to Tian Xia from Avistan via the Darklands and set up the nation of Jinin, whose culture is a combination of Elven and Tian (I think specifically Tian-Min given they've formed into a shogunate)

They still partially inhabit the Darklands, particularly a region called Silver Tree, an area rich in veins of mithril ore that look like the roots of a silver tree

[rustic cape]

I'm doing a Ruby Phoenix game and my character is probably going to be an elf who was doing serene elf things until she got caught up in the Hao Jin fandom.

[craggy thunder]

amazing lol

My gm is going to start running in a homebrew world somewhat soon, and the vibes of the world he gave made me think of this post

[rustic cape]

It's my excuse for using Ancient Elf, which always feels a bit odd to me.

[craggy thunder]

eh, ancient elf just requires one to be quite old

I have an ancient elf level 1 character, and her reasoning behind being level 1 is she spent most of that time being a courtesan and then pretty run of the mill mercenary

before joining a House of Perfection and becoming an Actual Level 1 Character

[rustic cape]

Aye, in this case she was just being a Normal Serene Elf until she got into the fandom.

[craggy thunder]

Level 1 characters are already kind of up there in terms of worldwide, average person capability

fair lol

[warped orbit]

when I played an ancient Elf, he was I think 182
and had quite a checkered past, changing careers every couple decades
with his latest thing being a surgeon in Alkenstar, and then turning to doing research into fleshwarps (which was my justification for getting involved in Abom Vaults)

[craggy thunder]

Mine is 358 lmao

[rustic cape]

Ruby Phoenix also takes place at level 11 so it's easier for me to psychologically justify.

https://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=4406190 Here she is

Wood/Earth/Air kineticist :D

[rustic cape]

Hey, I feel like I'm missing something. Why is Earthquake/Rattle the Earth good? Is it just that it does fall damage and the fissures can be hard to get out of?

[warped orbit]

it's a big difficult terrain area, and the fissures I guess yeah

I feel like it's mostly something you use for the anti structure effect

...wait it only lasts one round?

[tribal steeple]

Striking the ground with the gravity of the deepest rocks, you cause an earthquake. This has the effects of earthquake but comes from you, with an area of a 60-foot cone or an emanation with the same size as your kinetic aura. You and your space are unaffected by the quake. The fissures are only 10 feet deep, and the DC of the flat check for a collapse is 4 higher.
Level (16th) Fissures are 20 feet deep, and the DC of the flat check is 2 higher.
Level (20th) The fissures and flat check are unchanged from the spell.
two action overflow.

The spell Earthquake does indeed only have a duration of 1 round.

for two actions (three really since overflow) you can make a very large area of difficult terrain and automatically debuff all creatures within that area with –2 circumstance penalty to attack rolls, AC, and skill checks.

the fissures it creates are permanent tho

not 1 round, so that's just instantly stamping down a huge area -10 feet

for a reusable two action impulse you get

• massive AOE circumstance debuff and difficult terrain
• reflex save or force creatures into lower elevation that they must Climb (not hard to climb but it's still action sink)
• "I don't like that building, I will spend a few minutes violently shaking it apart" reusable demolition tool

[rustic cape]

Fair enough!

Oh, speaking of effects I'm having difficulty evaluating: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=6280

What do people think of Blessed Denial?

Basically a choice between picking it up or getting Mercy.

I already have Aura of Courage.

[tribal steeple]

If you don't have other reaction(s) to be using (and let's be honest, anyone concerned with mitigating conditions probably is caster-coded) then it's great. There's no limit to using Blessed Denial and all five of those trigger conditions are annoying at best and debilitating at worst.

[rustic cape]

Mm, I am using Redeemer champ's reaction, though.

[tribal steeple]

Mercy doesn't compete with your reaction, but also costs more actions and is a counteract check rather than a "no don't, -1" automatic effect

[rustic cape]

Mm, Blessed Denial seems like it may be the pick, then.

[tribal steeple]

depends on what you want to prioritize I guess:

• mitigating annoying chip debuffs like sickened
• saving the condition clear for the BIG ONES like when someone fails against Never Mind and gets Stupefied 4

[rustic cape]

Mercy's limitations by type are very annoying >_>

Maybe I just drop Blessed One altogether, since I don't seem to want to use most of it.

[rustic cape]

Is there anything about religion in Jinin?

[craggy thunder]

moooostly that it's a mix of Avistani and Tien gods

[rustic cape]

Thanks

[limber comet]

Keep in mind that some gods are global

[craggy thunder]

fair

I will say tho, the case of Sarenrae, one of those global gods, is funny when specifically comparing her to the Tien pantheon

Cuz like

Shizuru exists

[limber comet]

Well the global pantheon usually includes like

Desna, Pharasma, and Shelyn

And Abdar sometimes

[craggy thunder]

I mean Sarenrae is also in there, no?

[craggy thunder]

Debating what class to play for this game lol

man

what the hell class wants a liuyedao over a shortsword

I guess a critfishing rogue would like it thanks to deadly but rapier exists

[warped orbit]

Not sure anyone wants that tbh

[craggy thunder]

deadly?

or the liuyedao lol

[warped orbit]

The liuyedao yeah

[rustic cape]

I often feel that weapons like that should really just fall under the existing types.

[warped orbit]

Compared to a shortsword, you lose a die step for sweep and deadly d4

Which I feel is mostly just a bad trade

[rustic cape]

If they don't have anything that's actually mechanically compelling, they should just fold it into the mechanically compelling stuff that exists.

[tribal steeple]

imo most of the weapon traits are unremarkable if not entirely irrelevant

reach is obvious, crit damage increases are obvious

[limber comet]

No, core 20 is only for Avistan, only a handful are actually truly global

[craggy thunder]

Huh, interesting

[surreal basin]

Backswing, the maneuver traits, twin, parry, forceful on some builds, razing situationally

[warped orbit]

Forceful is almost never worth it IMO

mainly because its budgeted to cost a die step usually

you need to make three attacks just to break even really

[surreal basin]

Oh I’m not saying it’s good but it actually matters sometimes

[rustic cape]

Somehow I had never realized that Spirit Warrior fits extremely well with Laughing Shadow.

[craggy thunder]

you know

between spellstrikes, yeah lol

[rustic cape]

If for whatever reason a spellstrike is inexpedient at that time.

Rad defensive stuff, too.

[warped orbit]

Spirit Warrior goes great on a lot of things

[rustic cape]

The "break a sword to parry an attack" reaction is amazing.

[warped orbit]

It's really good yeah

[rustic cape]

Since spirit warriors can treat swords as interchangeable and focus on handwraps.

[warped orbit]

Since you don't really care about your weapons anyway

Spirit Warrior Thaum is also really good

Thief also

[rustic cape]

It's kinda the problem with Exemplar Spirit Warrior, though

[warped orbit]

Haha yeah

[rustic cape]

Unless you're willing to go without your damage feature on half of your attacks

[echo briar]

That’s where two weapon Ikons comes in handy

One for your fists, one for your other weapon.

[eager mountain]

It’s not allegedly, paizo literally announced it

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=3886

one of the new whetstones gives you lifesteal for a minute

which seems really strong, despite the action econ issues with whetstones

[rustic cape]

Ah, okay, I’d only seen their own statement.

[rustic cape]

No way to switch mid-flurry that I’m aware of, though.

[light gyro]

are there any dedicated feats to making whetstone actions less ass?

[warped orbit]

not really

it's just the usual things with consumables

you can get a Retrieval Belt/Prism to save the action of drawing it

[light gyro]

fair enough. also, reading the rules, im not sure whether or not you can put them on natural weapons/handwraps. i'd bet on 'yes' since they're described as similar to talismans, but its an unusually vague case. unless i've missed a rule.

[warped orbit]

I believe you can't as written

Since it says you can apply them to weapons, but handwraps and unarmed attacks aren't weapons

This was already a thing with oils too IIRC

I would personally allow it though

[echo briar]

Get one if the ikons that triggers after you strike

[rustic cape]

I’m not certain if you can do a free action partway through another action, as opposed to before or after.

[upbeat ridge]

I saw this and it looks cool, but aren’t prepared casters just better in this? Unless I’m missing something

I guess not actually? Since to cast a spell at a certain level you gotta prepare it at that level, whereas spontaneous casters get signature spells

So I guess it balances out

Although I don’t get why you get fucked over if you cast a 1 action essence spell

Or as a free action/reaction

[limber comet]

Probably because you can cast multiple single action spells in a turn, therefore boosting your draw pool significantly

So it balances out

[upbeat ridge]

Yeah ig

I do get why that’s a thing, but it feels like a weird tactical limitation as opposed to like, just not getting essence from those spells

And it makes those spells seem kinda bad

[limber comet]

Not really? Idk

[carmine oyster]

Brb sharpening my fists

[warped orbit]

Well you can sharpen a lance or a bow

[carmine oyster]

Yeah, and I'd personally allow it on handwraps, it's just a very silly mental image

(Using it with a Mind Smith's weapon is the funniest though, you can literally sharpen your intellect)

[fossil dome]

A cutting wit, as it were

[craggy thunder]

My newest character is a combination of Olrox Castlevania Nocturne, Dante DMC, and V1 Ultrakill

[surreal basin]

Do yall think construct eidolon is any good

[fossil dome]

I will say

I love the new Inventor archetype

[frank crystal]

Chatroom, for siege weapons, how do you tell how much crew is needed to operate them?

My players may be fighting some cannon using Fey soon

[turbid dagger]

On nethys there is usually a Crew entry

[frank crystal]

I’m an idiot

I completely missed that

Also wait it requires weapon proficiency to use?

[turbid dagger]

Proficiency This entry shows the proficiency required to use your class DC when Launching a mounted weapon (see the Launch action) or the proficiency used for your attack roll with a portable siege weapon.

[frank crystal]

[tribal steeple]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=329
I didn't know this existed. Time to look into cosplaying as field artillery.

[rustic cape]

Desert Wind kineticist stance question:

When you use a damaging air impulse that affects at least one creature in your kinetic aura, that impulse deals 1 additional slashing damage, or 2 if the impulse has a single target.
Does this mean it deals 2 damage if there is only a single target in this case, or 2 damage if the impulse can only ever have one target?

[wraith snow]

I would rule it as the former, but I don't know of any official ruling for that situation.

[rustic cape]

Mm. This kinet has access to Fire, Air, and Earth, and has Desert Wind, so I'm trying to choose between the three different available teleport moves.

Ash Strider has about a ten point lead for average damage but is only ever single target.

[light gyro]

earth, wind, and fire you say...

[rustic cape]

And wood.

The build’s been going some odd places.

[vocal ember]

I also feel like it's the former, but I guess it depends on why exactly you feel like it would be the latter

[light gyro]

clawdancer; loving how if my grappled enemy tries to escape i get a free hit, and then if i still have them in my hands i get a two-for-one on strikes

[warped orbit]

Clawdancer is really good

playing a Clawdancer Thief is also still on my list at some point

[rustic cape]

Level 1 dice swinginess can be really frustrating.

[warped orbit]

low levels are definitely the most volatile

[surreal basin]

On one hand
I could sell the Draconian ancestry I’m working on on like pathfinder infinite or smth
On the other hand ugggh figuring out legal stuff…..

[turbid dagger]

That's where I'm at thinking on my martial homebrew

[echo briar]

What would you need to do to make a devil so pissed off that they offer no strings attached contracts to kill you?

[surreal basin]

I mean I kinda just don’t think they would lol

[eager mountain]

so I was just playing p2e

and we are fighting this devil

and the devil was asking us questions about various topic

dude looked at me

also other quotes

becuase he was like " im not an enemy of the LGBTQ , so i wont attack you first, instead ill attack your friend first! "

" rainbow capitalism is actualy a very important part of our business models in hell "

and another player was like " OH SURE , ATTACK THE AUTISTIC ONE FIRST! " " but what if we are allllll gay!"

" Well I dont know that "

[true delta]

Top tier dialogue

[rustic cape]

What does no strings attached mean?

Do you mean just, "bring me the head of Willy the Mail Boy and I will give you 3000 gold pieces"? Because I don't even think that would be hard.

[silver geyser]

Devils are kinda only capable of thinking in Strings Attached ideas.

[rustic cape]

I doubt there's much to that for, say, a bounty — besides just having some incredibly obtuse excuse not to pay the successful killer.

[errant roost]

it feels more devilish to me that they'd pay out, but in a way that guarantees maximum suffering and damnation

like, a devil doesn't care about gold, gold is easy to get

[silver geyser]

Oh no, you can pay them. In fact, if there's a contract involved, that's certain to happen.

But did you negotiate leaving with the money?

[trail nova]

Payed in gold, but it’s cursed gold.

[errant roost]

or you end up accruing debts that take your entire payment and more, so you go back to the devil for a new contract

[carmine oyster]

Cheliax would introduce payday loans to Golarion

[rustic cape]

But I think if a bounty hunter walked in, tossed a devil a head, collected their gold, and walked out; well, the devil would be irritated that they hadn't found a way to make the other party suffer for participating, but it wouldn't be A Problem.

[echo briar]

Alternatively, hiring someone no strings attached is the loophole in another contract

“The devil can not kill me, nor use claimed souls to kill me” devils just hired normal mercenaries to kill you

[rustic cape]

There's gotta be one mercenary out there who is just like ... immune to getting screwed by devils. It's become a competition at this point, devils hire the merc for no reason other than to try to get another chance to screw them.

Meanwhile the merc just keeps raising the price.

(This is at least partially a psyop by Asmodeus.)

(The merc managed to avoid getting screwed by Asmodeus once, and Asmo sat down and had a think and said, "how would you like to do this professionally?")

(This is probably all part of a lengthy scheme by Asmodeus to screw the merc in question, which the merc knows,)

[silver geyser]

Devils will hold to their deals, but fine print and things not included will be there to mess with you

[light gyro]

just popped into my head - a devil might be willing to forgo their bullshit if they're REALLY worried about another devil that could pull their own bullshit on them if they found out they fucked up

[fast hill]

I wish the lance was good 😭

[echo briar]

The lance is good, but only when mounted

[frozen flame]

The war lance also exists, but I'm not sure if it's good or not

[echo briar]

The trick is to use a medium mount with a small character

[rapid wagon]

in fairness, a lance, at least insofar as like the anachronistic ideal of one, was never meant to be used on foot

[echo briar]

You never want to use it 2 handed, but 1d6 reach deadly is really good for a 1 handed weapon, and if you move it becomes the equivalent of a d8

If you have a large mount and so can’t use that reach, than the war lance is still very good as a 1d6 deadly and parry one hander

[fast hill]

I'm not really a big fan of it even when mounted

it just feels bad to use when it feels like the lance should be a weapon that does high damage but is a pita to set up

feels wrong that jousting is kinda meh

I would love a much bigger bonus requiring more shenanigans to proc

[surreal basin]

Big arc starts tonight

[frank crystal]

War Lance is good imo

A 2 handed d8 deadly 8 weapon isn’t the best on its own, but the parry tags helps a lot

[upbeat ridge]

Is there any good way to make toxicologist work well?

[astral prawn]

A player of mine has commented that their character reminds them of Mickey 17 which they're watching

So I have for the next session replaced their character portrait and token with this

They even have a naming convention that indicates they're the 14th iteration of the spirit, so I've updated it to be the 17th

I wanted to share this wicked prank before it is made manifest

[tribal steeple]

Cool to know these spirits work on K6BD angel mechanics

https://www.reddit.com/r/killsixbilliondemons/comments/ye74oo/voidposting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[solar thorn]

4 target reticules on a guy is pretty menacing ngl

"I am in danger"

[stuck bane]

Kinda looks like they’ve gathered four MacGuffin spheres and are about to use them to make evil plans happen

[solar thorn]

NEYHEHEHEHEHEHEHHE
BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL
(poor guy just got his skull blown apart by the druid)

[true delta]

Pray tell, are you using a module which allows ea h character to target stuff individually?

[carmine oyster]

That's built-in to foundry

Each player can target their target by hovering over and pressing T

[true delta]

Cool

[steel blade]

you can also double right-click to target or right-click and then click the bullseye that pops up in the token ui

[fast hill]

god bastard sword fucking ROCKS

[twilit escarp]

Sigh
Sadlife.

I start PF campaign and do 1st session. Next 2 are out bc I caught pneumonia and physically can't GM it.

Now I healed enough to continue.

...one of players isn't here.

[fast hill]

tryna think of ways you could really make a bastard sword work well

feels like it'd be good with a character who uses their other hand sometimes, but not always

magus maybe?

is there a feat that makes it cost less to put a weapon back into two hands?

[vocal ember]

Dual-Handed Assault I guess

[fast hill]

yea that works

I like the idea of using a bastard sword with dueling parry and dual handed assault...

[warped orbit]

Fighter is good with a bastard sword

Just take Dual Handed Assault, and Snagging Strike and Combat Grab

[small meteor]

We actually made a bastard sword champion. Because we stumbled into making a Warmonger from For Honor.

[craggy thunder]

Did you give them the Bladed Gauntlet flavored as a clawed one as an offhand lol

[fast hill]

not sure where you'd use both snagging and combat grab

seems like it's best for either or

since you'd probably want to dual handed assault on most turns

dueling parry would be very neat I think

[craggy thunder]

Ye I have a fighter build just like that

it also gives you the option of going full two-hand, using the flexible feats you get later for when you don't need the AC from parry

[warped orbit]

You Snagging into Combat Grab

If you have a flank, you can Dual Handed into Combat Grab

[fast hill]

ahhhhh

that makes sense yeah

if you use dragging strike while adjacent you can move back 5 feet and that would drag them with you right?

[small meteor]

Spiked gauntlet because deity. Also she has claws of her own, so.

Rhi the Kobold Bun (She/Her) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) Did you give them the Bladed Gauntlet flavored as a clawed one as an offhand lol

[craggy thunder]

valid

[craggy thunder]

Making AU Hero's Shade from Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess

What if he was just openly Link's mentor character and traveled with him

Exemplar with Captain dedi

and a Skeleton of course

[rustic cape]

In today's Kingmaker session, we spent the entire game looking at the kingdom rules >_>

(We are using the V&K fixes)

[rapid wagon]

oh could you link those?

my gm might love to look those over

[tribal steeple]

In my group we've collectively ignored the kingdom turns except the one player who actually likes doing it

[echo briar]

As the population grows, where does new soul energy come from?

Because it seems like the positive energy plane has a finite amount, and must be fed old souls to keep going.

Are there just less and less outsiders?

[tribal steeple]

This reads like one of those questions that 99% of people respond with "how the hell should I know?" and the party forms around a quest to find that 1% who can actually give the answer.

[rustic cape]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NHksCXkXbjtrv-26VgFHNbyYldatVwag9lM44IWxIXo/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.eubmwf9z6394 You can also get a foundry module that includes most of the changes.

[wraith snow]

My group switched to mostly-narrative on that a while ago and I really appreciate that method imo

Less resource management and more RP-driven scenarios where the players are given choices on what to focus on

[fossil dome]

See, I want the opposite direction

Give me Anno levels of economic simulation

[wraith snow]

I can appreciate the mindset there, but
-it's already been like 3 years of this without the added eurogame tactics portion
-good luck finding a group of 4 players who will keep focus whenever the game gets into it

[fossil dome]

That's where if you have one player nominated as the steward, they can go have fun with the GM over it between sessions

And then IC they can give a management report

[wraith snow]

See, we tried that for a bit but ran into scenarios where the in-RP implications of the choices made (even if optimal in the context of the kingdom rules) created very awkward narrative situations where there was realistically no way any of the characters would've signed off on it

(well, one probably would, but that's a different matter)

I find the kingdom is more interesting as a group narrative device to show what the ideals of the PCs are and how they try to implement them given the chance, and that only really works when all of the players have a vested interest in the direction the kingdom is taking and what means they have to influence it.

Letting one player manage everything works for the purposes of letting the people who are uninterested in the kingdom focus on the session-to-session classic elfgame gameplay, but it's an awful solution if every player has interest in the kingdom, just not the kingdom mechanics.

[fossil dome]

True

I will say, i am an outlier in that I really enjoy logistics sims

[wraith snow]

Like I said, we had a similar solution at first, it just lead to very awkward narrative RP moments

So unless the GM goes out of their way to keep the mechanics and narratives divorced (which is awkward for a whole host of other reasons) I don't think there's really a good solution for it.

Unless you just happen to assemble the 1/1000 table where every player wants to participate in the actual kingdom mechanics

[rustic cape]

We’ll switch over if we decide we’re unhappy with it.

But we did want to give it a try.

[wraith snow]

Yeah, same for my group

Speaking of, we uhhh, might have TPK'd

Or at least, TPK -1 PC

[warped orbit]

@turbid dagger
Sorry for the random ping, but I know you're a Disarm enjoyer and was just made aware of this item that lets you turn a success into a crit once per day

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=3439

[turbid dagger]

Ooooo yes!
I know of this item very well, I used it on a barbarian bac in the day

[stuck bane]

I’d been looking at that recently cause I’m playing FA with the bastion archetype (where I can get free disarm checks on shield blocks), but I’d only been looking at athletics skill bonuses, I totally missed the activations

[wraith snow]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2522

This bonus can't apply to attacks made from a stance even if being made with the appropriate bodypart, right?

[craggy thunder]

It cannot

it specifies attacks gained with Living Weapon, which would be distinct from, say, Crane Wing attacks

[echo briar]

So one thing I’ve noticed is that in a lot of PF2 spaces, there is a very loud group that wants Paizo to slow way down on the amount of classes that they make. I never hear anyone say that they like the current amount of classes that come out, or even that they would prefer more, despite the sales numbers showing that books with classes in them sell way better.

[warped orbit]

I like new classes

I just also would like Paizo to backfill more content for older classes more often

[rotund geode]

I also like the new classes

This might be a Loud Minority situation

But yeah older “new classes” need more support

Like summoner still not having an abberation eidolon

Straight up how

Ive never gotten past this

How did we get construct before we got abberation

How did we get psychopomp before we got abberation

They are gonna announce a new eidolon and we are gonna get velstrac eidolons or a protean eidolon before we get a tentacle monster

sorry I have been stuck on this since I got into the game

[vocal ember]

The summoner also doesn't have a way to give its eidolon a climb speed.

Tho I think the reason for abberation not being there is pretty obvious, they wanted a couple eidolons for each tradition and occult had the couple of phantom eidolons.

[rotund geode]

yeah but no abberation in dark archive?

[vocal ember]

...fair enough

[rotund geode]

plus primal got like 3 or 4

in the intro book

yeah arcane got 2, occult got 2, divine got 3, primal got 3

[echo briar]

I think we’ll get at least one more when they remaster it, it only because dragon will no longer be arcane only

And then things get very lopsided

[rotund geode]

there are so many primal and divine eidolons

compared to occult and arcane

ssince all the new eidolons are either primal or divine

[echo briar]

We need a guy eidolon

[rotund geode]

we do have a sspell that Conjures A Man

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1005

Like ACTUAL "Summon humanoid" spell

[echo briar]

It’s like beast, except the animal it summons is a Homosapien

Actually, a hominid eidolon would be very interesting

[rotund geode]

not another primal eidolon noooooooo

[echo briar]

You summon a very, very distant ancestor

[rotund geode]

Consider: it either summons a fighter type guy or a rogue type guy

or maybe its just Strength fighter vs Dex fighter

and eeach upgrade gives you a selection of funny feats to give them

and then you make it Arcane

your like the two halves of being a magus

[wary yoke]

In my saturday campaign, our champions player was apparently unsatisfied with his character since he has rerolled to a gunslinger of some sort

Who uses jezails, plural

[surreal basin]

….

Sure that build will help

Nothing potentially wrong there

[wary yoke]

We didn't get to see them in action but he has assured me "I know what I'm doing"

When I had to repeatedly remind him "please use your champion's reaction"

I am not high confidence

[warped orbit]

that... doesn't actually work

due to how very restrictive Fatal Aim is worded

unless they want to do some weird Quickdraw thing?

[wary yoke]

I don't know what he actually is planning, but when I told him that you can't dual-wield something with fatal aim, he said he knew that

That might be it

I'm most annoyed with his decision to retire the character and roll up another martial

When we have an exemplar (me) who doubles as the healer, an assassin rogue, a battle bard, and an armor inventor

[craggy thunder]

He

provably does not know what he's doing lmao

[warped orbit]

being martial heavy can be totally fine if people diversify appropriately IME, but I get what you mean

[true delta]

Huh. Hmm. My party consists of a barbarian, a rogue, a ranger, a cleric (with that, uh, battle cleric class archetype or what it's called) and an alchemist (chirurgeon, despite a backstory involving poisons).

Kinda martial-heavy too, huh?

[craggy thunder]

It is, but the cleric and alchemist help shore up on the healing front, and the ranger can as well

and rogue and ranger need only pick up a bow to provide range

It's less the martial/magic dichotomy that's the problem, moreso the damage/support dichotomy

[true delta]

Thank ye

[light gyro]

Related to double jezails; Maybe it's cus I'm an evil cantankerous GM but I hate the coy 'hmmmm, can I do... this?' poker thing. Just tell me what youre doing and why.

[craggy thunder]

yeah like

honesty is the best policy

even if in the moment the gm sounds annoyed

[warped orbit]

my AV party was full martial
Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, Investigator (me)

and it worked absolutely fine

I just picked up casting dedications to use scrolls a bit

[craggy thunder]

my group is starting a homebrew campaign in november and I'm playing a bloodrager

another player is doing a swash

[echo briar]

In SoT, the magic school campaign, I only have one caster.

[craggy thunder]

l m a o

[warped orbit]

many such cases

[wraith snow]

I do think it depends on the campaign, my Bloodlords party was all martials and I feel like most of the players did okay buildwise but there were some rough patches

(also tbf we did have someone on pre-remaster Alchemist and that did not help lmao)

We had Investigator, Swashbuckler, Barbarian and Alch

[craggy thunder]

I wish the ancestral weaponry feat was limited by die size and not whether they have the agile or finesse tag

[wary yoke]

Our GM knows, players don’t

Though I’m in the unenviable position of knowing the most about the system

[wooden orbit]

"Can I do this?" "I don't know. Can they do this?" -everybody looking at you-

[rustic cape]

So I'm hearing crossbow guardian is a valid build?

[warped orbit]

lmaooo

did not expect the sudden EOV

[rustic cape]

Just anecdotally.

No idea how it works, hoping somebody else does.

[wary yoke]

It's mostly been me reminding people they have an archetype

[warped orbit]

Dragoon is I think one of my favorite tank classes in EO though

[rustic cape]

Yeah I loved it.

[warped orbit]

I should try out Bunker Dragoon build some time

[turbid dagger]

I'm not sure if crossbow guardian would work
You have str KAS so you are innately at a disadvantage, especially as among the ranged weapon types crossbow is the only one that doesn't have some kind of 'bonus for extra str' trait for any of its weapons
In its favor is the fact that most of its strike feats just call for a strike, not a melee strike, but
It doesn't seem like a great way to spend your days, especially when you need to hug your friends anyway

[surreal basin]

I prefer this to playing with guy who THINKS he knows the most about the system

[wooden orbit]

I had the awkward experience during an Avatar Legends campaign I was in, of being the go to source for lore during sessions. So I always had the wiki open if I forgot something.

[tribal steeple]

This drives me mad because the one who does this is the GM. He is incapable of distinguishing PF1e, PF2e, and even older versions of D&D rules and blends them together on a regular basis. Not because he intends to, but because he is so self-confident that he doesn't fact-check himself ever and thus asserts factually wrong things that I have to challenge and correct.

I'm cool with deviating from rules to suit preferences, but I firmly believe that this needs to be done AFTER having a concrete grasp on what the norm is before modifying it.

Half the time he's just making shit up.

[fossil dome]

So he's just playing 5e RAI?

[tribal steeple]

🤮

There's been a few times where 5e topics have bled over and I have to remind him "no it doesn't work like that, you've ranted about this yourself in the past"

anyway long story short I keep winding up being the de facto Rules Knower in all my games and it gets exhausting

[fossil dome]

Yeah

Especially for PF

AoN is right there

[tribal steeple]

I think the minimum is if you want to do something or play a class or something, it is YOUR responsibility to look at the free rules available to everyone and know how your own character works

if you want to counteract things, you're the one who should have the counteract flowchart on hand.

[fossil dome]

Oh, no

Guardian Armour Break + Earth/Wood/Metal kineticist

[frank crystal]

Chatroom, what I just steal sweepers from PM and put them in pathfinder?

Actually I’m curious, are there any creatures who heal on like, their basic strikes?

[wraith snow]

Wights get temp HP on-hit

that's all I can think of off-hand

[surreal basin]

Yeah I don’t think there’s any creature that have straight up lifesteal on basic attacks

Maybe some AP exclusive weirdo

Probably intentionally, that would be very very powerful

[thorny berry]

alright lads new investigator weapon spotted https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=226

either swapping to it or switch hitting with something hands-free

[warped orbit]

yeah Big Boom Gun has always been pretty good

[frank crystal]

Yah probably, wonder if I could balance it with a super low AC but it may just be better not to touch it outside of like, a gimmick fight

[surreal basin]

Oh so

I think it could be fun for a gimmick fight absolutely

[warped orbit]

Players, if they use a Leeching Fang now 😛

[surreal basin]

So if it’s a big +2 or 3 boss monster

I’d say make it apply on crits only

And if it’s not, I’d say make it only apply the first time each round the creature hits a character

[frank crystal]

What’s that?

[frank crystal]

I was imagining these guys as like, maybe even a -1 encounter

Like relatively weak but plentiful and hard to put down

Maybe as a bog down enemy while they’re trying to accomplish something more important

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=3886

it's one of the new whetstones

basically gives you lifesteal for a minute

[frank crystal]

That’s crazy strong

[warped orbit]

you heal for half the damage dealt with the weapon

[surreal basin]

Most of the whetstones are pretty strong!

[wraith snow]

Obviously it depends on the flavour you want, I think making it work like Bloodrager's Harvest could be reasonable

[surreal basin]

Battlecry has some cracked items tbh

Like the banners

Basically my big piece of advice for a horde is

Don’t make every strike proc a save

That will make the fight last forever

[wraith snow]

Where they can take an action to heal after delivering an attack, rather than having it be tied 1:1 with the strike

[frank crystal]

Oh yah I’d probably wanna make it automatic

Probably not like, half the damage though

Honestly I’d imagine they do like, set healing on hit and give them features to do a lot of extra hits

Like a one action for 2 strikes kinda deal

[thorny berry]

But also

The humble one-inch punch...

[fast hill]

what pf2e APs do people reccomend? I wanna run some pf2e eventually but idk if I want to run an AP or my own stuff. Not looking for any in particular, just people's favourites

[warped orbit]

I've heard good things about Season of Ghosts

[limber comet]

There's only like one Adventure Path I wouldn't recommend and that's uhhh

Gatewalkers

[surreal basin]

Tbh it’s not actually that bad

I think people overblow it

It’s not worse than like

Age of Ashes

Which is effectively non-functional in several places

[surreal basin]

To answer this question tho, Bloodlords and Stolen Fate are both aces

[fast hill]

I did try run blood lords!

might try it again

it's always kinda awkward running the same AP with the same group

we just had scheduling issues with people

[limber comet]

I forget Age of Ashes exists

I'm really partial to the new Vampire ap

Shades of Blood

It's got a lot of stuff I personally like

Ancient civilizations, vampiric cults, magitech machinery

[fast hill]

whats stolen fate about?

ah it's a high level AP

[surreal basin]

Yeah

It’s about collecting magic harrow cards

[wraith snow]

Of the ones I've played I'm most partial to Bloodlords and Outlaws of Alkenstar

Also, I haven't had a chance to play it myself but everyone I know who has gives Abomination Vaults nothing but praise.

[fast hill]

abomination vaults to stolen fate could work maybe?

I like campaigns to start at low levels

[wraith snow]

The town where AV happens is very close to where Stolen Fates kicks off, for what that's worth

Though Stolen Fate has some unique background options you might want to consider pointing out to players

They can be safely ignored though, they're just nice flavour

[novel merlin]

Outlaws of alkenstar is good if your players don't mind being railroaded

Strength of Thousands is excellent even though the magic school part is really only the first half

Fists of the ruby phoenix is a banger and gets better the more effort you put into the side characters

[astral prawn]

Season of Ghosts is often regarded as the best one

Curtain Call seems really fun tho

[frozen flame]

Season of Ghosts is really good if your players don't already know The Twist

It loses quite a bit if they do

[fossil dome]

I don't know The Twist, so won't ask for it

[sturdy lagoon]

I was vaguely spoiled on it at some point which annoys me. Probably assures I'm better off just GMing it instead.

[surreal basin]

we are

level 2

[warped orbit]

RIP

what were you fighting?

[surreal basin]

no no that's the enemy

a player

did that damage

[fossil dome]

Magus?

[surreal basin]

nope

summoner of all things

[fossil dome]

Hiuh

[warped orbit]

oh okay

[fossil dome]

How?

[limber comet]

The humble Summoner

[surreal basin]

hey so uh

eidolons can get fatal d10 attacks

[fossil dome]

Ah

Similar to an arquebus, then

I love in perpetual fear of a sniper GS getting Runic Weaponed

[echo briar]

I have a pick fighter

At level 3, she just fought her first opponent that was not one shot by a crit

It was instead left at 3 hp

[fossil dome]

Fighter feels so good

[surreal basin]

ANOTHER ONE

[warped orbit]

oh huh

[upbeat ridge]

i mean, this looks like more of a triggerbrand and a shield

which would cook tbh

[surreal basin]

Hmmm

Thinking about combination weapons

And how to change them to make them, to be frank, suck less

[astral prawn]

A player I have is going into combination guns with their Vanguard Gunslinger

They've gone for Gunsword for now idk if they'll make something different down the line

[astral prawn]

What's wrong with combination weapons exactly btw?

[rustic cape]

The Dragoon is specifically the tank class in EO5, taking hits instead of allies and also they have a gun.

[clever cobalt]

Update on our Mythic Game: Razmir got assassinated, 3 new gods(?) showed up, and Thronestep is being destroyed

[craggy thunder]

hmmm

How bad of an idea is a 15th level swashbuckler taking gunslinger and rogue archetypes?

[warped orbit]

what are you taking from Gunslinger?

[craggy thunder]

thought about it, but rogue is better

for the base class

[turbid dagger]

Typically, they are worse than carrying a melee weapon and a gun separately in every way except saving money on runes
Feats can change this tho- Stab and Blast is one

[craggy thunder]

dedication with way of the drifter, slinger's readiness, practiced reloads, and maybe juke

[astral prawn]

They are a Gunslinger (Vanguard), would that mitigate some issues?

[craggy thunder]

from witch I'm taking dedi, basic spellcasting, basic lesson, patron's breadth, expert spellcasting, and greater lesson

I'm trying to make Corvo Attano, p much

/Zorro

[turbid dagger]

It would, and Gun Sword in particular is one of the better ones to take because the gun component is equivalent to the Harmona Gun in everything except range
They just need to make sure to go 3 str 4 dex so they can hit well with both attacks

[craggy thunder]

also fun thing is my character runs out of skills to train with her int bonuses at like level 12 lmao

[astral prawn]

Yeah fair enough, they're also a Mythic character with the dedication that necessecitstates they make all their equipment

[surreal basin]

You can grab lores!

[craggy thunder]

You can!

My character has four!

XD

[frank crystal]

God I wish the gunsword was a dex weapon so fucking bad

[craggy thunder]

I mean the triggerbrand and various other combo weapons also exist

Also it is a very funny experience being a rogue with the witch arch

[frank crystal]

Yah but the triggerbrand is so weak on its own

[craggy thunder]

and scare to death

I should look into hexes that frighten...

There have to be some, right?

[warped orbit]

the best combination weapons are unfortunately all non finesse

[craggy thunder]

I'm so excited to play my creole Tengu Corvo/Zorro/Spike

My inspos promise a fun time

[frank crystal]

Yah, I check again, the only 2 hand, reload combination weapon is the explosive dog slicer

Which is

Of course

Advanced

[warped orbit]

Explosive dogslicer is pretty good, but unfortunately advanced yeah

guess you have to be a goblin

(or human, as always)

[craggy thunder]

explosive dogslicer triggerbrand way moment

well

you can also be a tengu

the explosive dogslicer is a sword

[warped orbit]

I suppose so, yeah

[craggy thunder]

Oh god wait

you'd only be proficient in the melee profile tho

[frank crystal]

Yup

No gun for you

[craggy thunder]

with Tengu

lmao

[frank crystal]

“I know how to swing this sword super well because of my bird dad, unfortunately he never taught me how to pull a trigger”

[astral prawn]

I asked bird dad why he didn't and he said "Boy you don't have fingers, only feathers!"

[craggy thunder]

boutta see if I can parlay two 13th level items for 15th level character creation into having a motorcycle instead (homebrew world, think DIshonored/Gotham By Gaslight/Hunt: Showdown tech level)

[craggy thunder]

I could not

No Akira slides for me

[astral prawn]

Damn

[craggy thunder]

Man

Dread Striker is a good feat

especially archetyped into an occult caster

[errant roost]

I wish transforming weapons were good, because I always find myself wanting to play a bloodborne hunter in games :P

[craggy thunder]

weird question

what knife seems most apt for summoning a mount

[limber comet]

In what fashion

[craggy thunder]

I'm taking Ceremonial Knife on my rogue with witch archetype, and it needs a knife to act as the wand, with the spell contained in it being marvelous mount, in particular a skeletal horse

[solar storm]

You weren’t kidding haha

A hoof knife might be interesting

[craggy thunder]

...huh

Well

It has to be a weapon in the knife group, feat text-wise

[sturdy lagoon]

Can't you reselect the spell and knife every day?

[craggy thunder]

you can

but idowanna XD

[sturdy lagoon]

Fair enough

[craggy thunder]

also skeleton horse

[sturdy lagoon]

Most commentary I see on it is "buy like 50 daggers so you can always overcharge whenever you need to"

[solar storm]

Yeah daggers are cheap and it makes the feat nearly 2x as good

[turbid dagger]

Personally, I'd say rather than a particular style of knife, it's like
A sharpened bit of its jaw or something
And when you call it up the whole thing appears and assembles

[upbeat ridge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/9VsN2bnWSb

[turbid dagger]

YESSSS
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS

I didn't even notice the taunt interaction, thats lovely
But punishing shove, raise haft, heavy armor, extra hp

[novel merlin]

in the comments they mention a centaur thing that makes your successful shoves auto crit

for even more punishing shove damage

ancestry feat* so you can just be adopted

[light gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/gold-ship-gold-ship-goldship-uma-musume-gif-152341959483515608

"yes I was raised by centaurs how could you tell"

[turbid dagger]

they taught me the deep cultural secrets of haymakering people as hard as I possibly can
I just ran the numbers in PB and at level 8 you are doing more damage with a shove than you are with a max damage non crit gunshot with a Hammer Gun (it has Shove for easier item to athletics and a good melee half)
Guaranteed 20 vs a max of 19

Honestly the brawn + punishing shove combo opens up so much stuff by itself
The funniest possible thing you could do with it is
Use shove instead of strike as your damage option on a str-boosting caster gish build
Since athletics prof is easy to get compared to weapon prof

[tribal steeple]

It took me a minute to realize what you were describing. I want to play a shove guardian girl raised by centaurs, now

• +1 circumstance to athletics to shove, success upgrades to crit success automatically
• deal STRx2 damage on a successful crit shove, scaling to (STR+2/6/12)x2 with athletics proficiency
• literally any shove just dealing 8/12/20/34 damage at levels 1/3/7/15

That's nuts

I'm a sucker for fixed damage

Fixed damage and infinite ammo

[rustic cape]

Rogue has a ton of amazing passive feats that make it one of the best classes to archetype into, imo

Just things you can toss on virtually any character.

[solar storm]

This kicks ass

Either the adoptive one or just making a centaur gunslinger cowboy who kicks the fuck outta people

[rustic cape]

Today in Kingmaker: the ancient Egyptian accountant walked in and we immediately hired him as treasurer.

[light gyro]

Having a spooky motherfucker helping out at camp is the new hotness in rpgs, apparently

[rustic cape]

He's a priest of Thoth who threw someone out of a window in Pitax for trying to stop him from stopping the king's embezzlement.

[limber comet]

Cinema

[novel merlin]

Gold ship with a gun

[light gyro]

funny you should mention that since she actually does get an outfit with a ||water balloon|| gun

[solar thorn]

punished for her sins

[light gyro]

Animal or druid

[solar thorn]

The druid.

[rustic cape]

Does Golarion have an ersatz Morocco specifically?

[small meteor]

What do you quite mean by that? Like, what're you looking for?

[wary yoke]

I'm guessing they're looking for a nation that's culturally analogous to Morocco

[small meteor]

Like, the nation that fills the physical equivalent locale is Rahadoum, but I'm not sure that's what's wanted.

[rustic cape]

Cultural approximation.

They drink an incredible amount of tea in Morocco, and I want to make up an expat-run teahouse in Goka.

[wary yoke]

Maybe Thuvia?

Riffs a bit on the "Thuvia alchemist" stereotype, but it's what I can think of

[rustic cape]

Is there anywhere in Garund that's strongly North African Arab nation-coded?

Rahadoum seems fine for this purpose, anyway.

[wraith snow]

Qadira is the closest I can think of off-hand, not exactly a perfect fit but their location along key trade routes means it's pretty reasonable for an expat to wind up pretty much anywhere

[rustic cape]

This is in Goka, so I'm assuming functionally unlimited cosmopolitanism is on the table.

[small meteor]

FWIW, Oppara (capital of Taldor) has a lot of tea houses, so it's not beyond reason that a Taldan might have moved to Goka to try and learn more?

[rustic cape]

The context here is that Ling is trying to find a tavern for them to all meet in (it's tradition!).

And she has a tourism book for Goka that serves as her Goka Lore XD

[wraith snow]

Taldor also already has ties to the region via Linvarre, though they are independent

[light gyro]

shout-out to achaekek's cult being explicitly anti-discrimination

**Anathema ** kill a rightful ruler, become fixated on petty matters such as others’ gender or ancestry, abandon an assassination contract you agreed to pursue