Pathfinder

[small meteor]

I forget if ogres are smart, because I'd love to see ogres.

IIRC, Oni are spirits so they're mono-alignment?

Well, "alignment", alignment isn't a thing anymore.

[limber comet]

Alignment is no longer a thing, I think they can be any morality but just trend towards not being friendly bc of how they come into existence

[small meteor]

Yeah, if I had thought about it I would have remembered, but I'm also playing WT at the same time.

[warped orbit]

more Surki feats would be nice

[limber comet]

More surki feats and like one or two new ancestries

Errr

Heritages

My bad

Because the evolution mechanics plus the upgrade mechanics from automaton are really cool

[wraith snow]

Well, they're sapient if that's what you mean. They live in social units, have a pantheon unique to them, the recall DC is society.

[small meteor]

Hm! Okay, so they'd be a valid ancestry. Cool!

[wraith snow]

That said, they're also a violent raider culture who, according to the creature description, have documented sadistic tendencies.

[small meteor]

Ogres, mi'lord.

[wraith snow]

Oh, also, to backtrack slightly

[rustic cape]

Automaton and Surki are def the game’s most interesting ancestries

Mechanically, anyway

[wraith snow]

Oni are spirits but the most commonly found variants in the physical realm are Mountain Oni and Onidoshi, both of which often live among Ogres and the latter of which are literally part Ogre.

So an Ogre+Hungerseed would be as close as is feasibly possible to make an Oni PC

(Though more powerful Oni often take the form of giants, so you could easily refluff Jotunborn)

[limber comet]

Redeemed Oni flavored as a Jotunborn starting from the beginning and going on a journey of self-discovery

[wraith snow]

My character for Stolen Fates was a Tengu Tiefling flavoured as a Hungerseed before they were officially added

[limber comet]

I feel like this could be really good for Season of Ghosts

[wraith snow]

Could be a lot of fun, yeah

[tribal steeple]

Anadi 2, Bigger Bug

[limber comet]

Surkis forgotten again in favor of smelly jumping spiders

[surreal basin]

Ur smelly

[limber comet]

Nuh uh

I wear coconut deodorant

[tribal steeple]

Surki are too busy being covered in DIRT

[surreal basin]

Tbh idk if Surki necessarily need more support

They got the standard ancestry sweep

They aren’t as bad as the mwangi guys that didn’t get SHIT

[wraith snow]

I think it's less I want them to have more support and more I'd like them to have more ways to live out the flavour of being a magic-eating race

[surreal basin]

Straight up 0 17th level feets

I’m still fucking malding about that

[wraith snow]

Damn, I just checked and I didn't realize most of them had it like that lmao

I'm mostly familiar with Conrasu which is basically the only one that doesn't have that issue lmao

[surreal basin]

Fleshwarps got it bad by being in a lost omens book

I really think they should’ve been in like

Dark archives

[tribal steeple]

I sob when I think how Anadi (giant spiders) don't get a climb speed until 9th level, and genuinely have no 17th level feat(s)

granted it's a good climb speed feat relative to most other climb speed feats, but 9th level??

[surreal basin]

Yeah mwangi was crazy underpowered

It was during paizo’s coward era iirc when a lot of the stuff was really neutered

[tribal steeple]

hang on lemme find it

• Vampire Dedication, Clinging Climber (4th) - 15ft climb speed
• Kashrishi, Skilled Climber (5th) - 10ft climb speed (upgrade to full w/ associated 1st level feat)
• Tripkee, Prodigous Climber (5th) - 10ft climb speed (20ft with associated heritage)
• Vanara, Skillful Climber (5th) - 10ft climb speed (upgrade to full w/ associated 1st level feat)
• Goblin, Cave Climber (9th) - 10ft climb speed
• Elf, Tree Climber (9th) - 10ft climb speed
• Anadi, Strand Strider (9th) - 25ft climb speed (only in spider/hybrid form)
  the psychic rhino people are better climbers than Anadi

[tribal steeple]

anyway, praying for anadi buffs when they get around to remastering mwangi stuff

[vocal ember]

Remastered mwangi ancestries would be nice

[surreal basin]

Project Multi-Creature boss was a success!

[worthy stump]

[rustic cape]

Today in Kingmaker: exploded some spiders

[wraith snow]

Would you believe we almost had a player die there?

[tribal steeple]

Narrator: "Not the character. The player almost died."

[rustic cape]

The GM just let us circumvent the combat by luring the swarm out onto a dead deer on top of the party inventor's construct

[carmine oyster]

Should Slurks be immune to their own belly grease? I don't see an immunity listed but I struggle to imagine them wanting to use it if they're not immune

They can spend a full 3 actions to make themselves off-guard and have a greater-than-even chance of falling prone whenever they're attacked

[vocal ember]

I think that makes the most sense yeah

[desert vale]

Hand sized spawn of rovagug. Still capable of depopulating cities

[warped orbit]

thinking about Finesse maneuvers again

and I realized that allowing it would mean free hand maneuvers would also be finesse, following the ruling how it works with agile

but now I wonder if that would actually be an issue

[echo briar]

Make it a feat, or multiple

Personally, I think the bigger issue is ranged maneuvers.

I think having more than like 2 skill actions that work at range will go a long way to making starfinder feel more exciting

Although it could be more interesting if grenades and mundane ammo filled that role.

[steel blade]

i have a potential TPK happening this friday because one of my players decided to do something despite multiple warnings it was a bad idea, and the logical consequences follow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1354998881925988382/1385822426734006382/image.png?ex=6863fd75&is=6862abf5&hm=cc2a8440950031519df564500f86b99ab721e35fc235fe604448061142803795&

[warped orbit]

I guess I could make it a general feat

[novel merlin]

I think the main issue with finesse maneuvers is that it makes strength a really unappealing stat

[warped orbit]

I disagree highly

[warped orbit]

I mostly think about it a lot, because that's how I think about Dex atm haha

as long as you have medium armor at least, you basically don't need Dex

Str has better weapons, does more damage, has Athletics access, and also has better AC with heavy armor

the only edge Dex really has is that it's always used for ranged attacks

[novel merlin]

Dex gets all ranged weapons, melee at like one dice step less damage, reflex saves, and three skills. It loses out on 1AC vs heavy armor

[warped orbit]

being locked to Dex feels more like a downside to me than anything else

also, finesse maneuvers would actually give all the finesse weapons with maneuver tags a use

because rn, they are pretty hard to use

[turbid dagger]

Str melee does way more damage on average
Finesse one handers are capped at d6, finesse weapons are capped at d8
And while yeah flat str to damage does fall off it will always be essentially the average of an extra dice to damage

[echo briar]

The other problem is the outliers

Thief rouges need no help

[warped orbit]

they really don't, but I'm fine with that happening if it means other finesse builds get to benefit
like Gymnast Swash eg

[novel merlin]

I think strength and dex are well balanced in the absence of finesse maneuvers

[warped orbit]

I personally feel like Str is heavily favored currently, unless you are forced into Dex by mechanics

[turbid dagger]

Yeah

[warped orbit]

like Rogues do great obviously, but it's because they have tons of cracked features

and Thief gets to cheat by getting Dex to damage

[turbid dagger]

Yeah swash and rogue get incentives to use dex

But like
Show me a dex melee champ

[warped orbit]

but if you are like, a Fighter or Ranger for example
I feel like there is little reason to do a Dex build if you want to melee

[turbid dagger]

Dex IS good for reflex saves and skills
But not worth heavily nerfing your damage, because you hit people more often than you make dex checks or reflex saves

[warped orbit]

and if you got heavy, you get Bulwark

[turbid dagger]

That doesn't save you from trips and the like but yeee

[novel merlin]

I think part of that is that if you get heavy armor then you take heavy armor and therefor str

Ranger is probably a better comparison

[warped orbit]

on a melee Ranger, I would go Str pretty much every time

leave Dex at +1, get a breastplate, done

[turbid dagger]

I also struggle to envision a dex melee ranger honestly
Maybe with a dex side hustle but yeah you get a lot out of str investment for both flurry (reapplying flat damage) and precision (you can swing a d12 or d10)

[steel blade]

gist of events that lead to this situation

party has fought one of the enemies that popped out of the beacon in the middle of the circle before, it appeared after some cultists tried a shitty demon-summoning ritual that shouldn't have worked
Codex-looking PC wanted to find another one and capture it for research purposes, because it isn't a devil, daemon, or demon, but is a fiend
traced a signal he could hear to this tower(former home of a long-dead wizard), specifically to the beacon
homunculus is awakened, implied his creator died after opening a portal using the beacon
codex touched the beacon, heard a voice telling him to give blood
codex got the hungerseed to cut herself with her sword and give some blood
beacon consumed the blood, opened a portal to the fiend's homeworld
session ended with the singular fiend popping out of the portal, but i've made it clear to the players that the portal remained open, and more are likely to follow
party is level 2, the beacon summoning more enemies is modeled after something from PFS 2-00(King in Thorns), basically is going to summon 1 of those things every turn until disabled or destroyed they're level 2 enemies though so the party is probably gonna get overwhelmed pretty quickly

[novel merlin]

Are there many non finesse agile weapons?

Not thag you couldn't still use strength for one

[warped orbit]

dandpatta is like the perfect Flurry weapon

d6, agile, twin

[novel merlin]

Nice

Though a strength ranger doesn't get bulwark which is rougb

[warped orbit]

you don't, yeah

unless you grab heavy armor through something else

[turbid dagger]

Hatchet and battle-axe is the classic
You can also just
Still use a short sword yeah
But yeee dandpatta is the best bet

[carmine oyster]

What adventures other than the beginner box would work well as an introduction/refresher one(or two)-shot? Most of the group ran through the beginner box a while back, so have some familiarity but are very rusty, one player hasn't played PF2 at all

I'm looking at Little Trouble in Big Absalom

Hmm, I'm also seeing praise for Sundered Waves

[turbid dagger]

I can rec Sundered Waves
A few simple puzzles, a few simple combats

[carmine oyster]

That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for - slightly worried about the complexity of 5th-level characters for the one player who hasn't done PF2e before, but they have done 5e, and since we'll have an extra player it should give some leeway

(I will have to make a fifth character though I assume, since AIUI it only comes with four pregens)

[warped orbit]

they usually do, yeah

[rustic cape]

Depending on class a 5th level character may not be all that much more complicated than a 1st level

[warped orbit]

yeah

[carmine oyster]

Having prebuilts should definitely help

[turbid dagger]

I genuinely enjoyed playing the fighter in sundered waves

[rustic cape]

Fighter's a fun class

I have to respect PF2e for having a system where +2 to hit can feel pretty satisfying and exciting

[warped orbit]

it's also that Fighter gets all the best metastrikes

Knockdown/Slam Down is really good

[light gyro]

oh, on that - strength of thousands final encounter ||we're only half-way done but the tradition weaknesses have turned a success into a fail like three times already.||

[turbid dagger]

He's also just a fun personality from the character side
Basically a classic 'ex con who found jesus' but instead of jesus it's Iomedae

[limber comet]

https://bsky.app/profile/paizo.com/post/3lswa3dfdsm22

Paizo (@paizo.com)

Glory in battle comes with a price. Read our first Iconic Encounter from Battlecry! in today's blog!

buff.ly/ThJmiYV

Bluesky · Jul 1, 2025, 5:31 PM

My wife

[stuck bane]

Which class is this iconic?

[turbid dagger]

Commander!

[clever cobalt]

Kholo Iconic eventaully

Hopefully

[limber comet]

Probably not

We still don't have a kobold or leshy iconic!

Which are far more iconic than kobolds

Eerr

Kholos

My bad

[frank crystal]

Do we finally have art for the new battlecry iconics?

[turbid dagger]

We've had art for a long while and backstories for a bit
Now the iconic stories are coming

[frank crystal]

Oh, what is the art?

I haven’t seen it yet

[turbid dagger]

Ulka Oathshriek, Iconic Commander

[frank crystal]

Sick

[turbid dagger]

Grimmyr, Iconic Guardian

[frank crystal]

Huh

Kinda surprised the guardian iconic is using a two handed weapon

When the class prioritizes shields and brawling weapons so much

[turbid dagger]

It does have some stuff for twohanding, like giving em parry, but yeeee

And lastly, both together on Battlecry's cover

[frank crystal]

Cool

Are the knights they’re with a specific order?

[turbid dagger]

Considering the metaplot of Battlecry, they're probably Eagle Knights from Andoran

As the big overarching plot is open war between Andoran (and allies) and Cheliax (and allies)

[frank crystal]

Oh nice

[surreal basin]

They’re charging with andoran on the cover

I’m not surprised they didn’t wanna make an iconic who sides with devil Nazi’s lmao

[turbid dagger]

I mean yeah

[frank crystal]

I’d imagine not lol

[turbid dagger]

That's why I said they're likely eagle knights
There are two sides and while Andoran is not exactly perfect Cheliax are essentially the Desginated Bad Guys Of Everything

[rapid wagon]

Someone help me with something, what are a bunch of non positive healing?

Bard has one that I know of, medicine and treat wounds are big

Any other ones to think about?

[novel merlin]

Witch has a focus spell like bard

[turbid dagger]

Soothe, Harm, Touch Of Corruption, Nudge The Scales, and yes, Stitch Flesh with medicine

[rapid wagon]

My second blood lords campaign is potentially on the road to dying, and I'm the main healer using medicine. Just thinking about what I could play really. We already have a bard

I could go evil Cleric maybe

But no one in the party is undead

Only one has void healing

Trying to plan ahead in case I do die

Thought about also maybe a ranged weapon specialist and healer

Who are my go to ranged specialists that I can hard invest into medicine on? Fighter, Ranger, Gunslinger?

Bow magus?

[turbid dagger]

Fighter might be your best bet, bows do get a free hand for medicine
I'd rec an oracle or occult sorc for blood lords healing, if you don't want to do a harm cleric

[tight flare]

Our psychic goblin #2 took like 150 damage before his first round in combat
"Screw this, I'm outta here! Let's flee!"
casts translocate and warps far away
Nobody else fled.
He couldn't even warp back because he was immune for 1h lol

Weird fight.

[limber comet]

Abra

The ever shy Abra when you try to catch it:

[frozen flame]

Blood Lords gives narrative access to void healing fairly trivially

So people should have it, probably

[warped orbit]

Everyone gets void healing at the end of book 1 yeah

[surreal basin]

Yeag

Side note: if you ever run bloodlords. Consider switching some of the void damage enemies deal to like

Old

*cold

Or smth

Because a full void healing party will trivialize a kinda hilarious number of encounters

[tribal steeple]

It's game day later and I do NOT remember what we did last week.

[limber comet]

Oh hey

Myth-Speaker is ou-

NEW ANIMIST APPARITIONS

https://tenor.com/view/money-wallet-broke-gif-7855913

[rustic cape]

WAIT WHAT

Do we know what they are?

DID THEY ADD A STORM APPARITION?

[limber comet]

:]

[rustic cape]

YES

FUCKING FINALLY

Any chance you can share the vessel spell too? :D

[limber comet]

Yur

[rustic cape]

(We still need a thunder/lightning/snow apparition but I'll take it)

... this is potentially a free sustain

[limber comet]

It doesn't heighten but a free step/shove/jump on sustain is pretty wild

[rustic cape]

Liturgist 9+ can sustain whenever it steps

So this is free real estate

(tbh you hit a point of diminishing returns on free animist sustains because you still have to spend actions getting the spells up and running but)

[limber comet]

Although I'd imagine the liturgist sustain wouldn't count because the step happens after you sustain?

So like, you have to make an active choice whether to sustain or not

[rustic cape]

What I mean is you can use it sustain another apparition/vessel spell

So having this up is action-neutral if you intend to run a bunch of vessel spells

(Which I recommend for animist players)

[limber comet]

Oooh true

[rustic cape]

It is a fairly modest benefit for an action-hungry class

But still

Very nice

[limber comet]

The other one is whisper and snake themed

[rustic cape]

Oh cool

[wraith snow]

It's really, really irritating to me as someone who loves winter themed characters how few good options there are in the system for it

[rustic cape]

It's weird to me that animist can't Bring The Lightning

[rustic cape]

I love the class but it feels like an omission

[wraith snow]

Prior to alignment going away there was one (1) option for a non-evil aligned Cold domain Cleric

[rustic cape]

There are some cold spells in the Lurker In The Depths

But like

Wrong vibe

[limber comet]

...I mean

A homebrew supplement I snagged a couple days ago has a winter apparition

[wraith snow]

And they're from Tian Xia so also hard to make work for most campaigns on top of that

[limber comet]

It's not official but it might work for now?

[small meteor]

..Very very frightening me?

gkathellar (he/him) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) (We still need a thunder/lightning/snow apparition but I'll take it)

[rustic cape]

Is there a way to get Mighty Bulwark on a kineticist that doesn't require them to spend a bunch of feats on heavy armor proficiency they won't use?

[vocal ember]

Checking AoN, Stalwart Defender has it at level 12 and the archetype only requires light armor proficiency

[rustic cape]

I guess tenacious stance is alright

ish

I mean not at all for a kineticist so it's kinda immaterial between it and sentinel

[vocal ember]

As far as I can tell there aren't any other options with similar effects.

[rustic cape]

Yeah

's what I thought

Tragic

Random thought: it occurs to me a slightly refluffed Runesmith could fit very well into a game set in the East Asia-inspired areas of Tian Xia, hinging off of the long traditions of written-word-magic in China, Japan, and Korea

[wraith snow]

Could definitely work, yeah

[warped orbit]

Runesmith is pretty flexible generally

[wraith snow]

The only thing in the current system that really looks at that archetype are fulus which are pretty underwhelming

Though I might be missing some

[warped orbit]

ghostbane fulu are good, but yeah

[wraith snow]

Admittedly one of my groups has had fire suppression fulu come up more than once

But it's far from the only way to cover the incredibly small niche that it does

[rustic cape]

I mean hell, I think I only know the word "diacritic" from people talking about Chinese characters

[warped orbit]

this also reminds me
they really need to do something about Talisman Dabbler at some point

[rustic cape]

I'm finally looking at Runesmith properly is why I'm thinking about this

What is the biggest bullshit folks can think of to do with this

[solar thorn]

Advanced scurvy isn't good but it is extremely funny

RUNE OF POWER: VITAMIN C DEFICIENCY

[turbid dagger]

Albatross Curse?

[crystal walrus]

https://github.com/HasturTheYellow/pf2_treasure_gen/blob/main/README.md

An acquaintance forked the npc generator to make the treasure generator

Requires you to own the infinite treasure generator

[light gyro]

final session of the 20 level campaign and my players shall learn the power of friendship (buff/debuff stacking) or they shall die

[light gyro]

lol level 21

[rustic cape]

My level 20 animist had something like +42 to initiative rolls

[clever cobalt]

Gotta go fast

[light gyro]

:)

[light gyro]

ONE! MORE! SESSION! SYNDROME!!!!!!!!!

strength of thousands book 6 finale spoiler ||two players dead, aspect of immortality has died. just aspect of hunger remains. the magus and alchemist totally has this||

[surreal basin]

Oh wow really

[tribal steeple]

I was last to join the call and popped in to hear all other players and GM (as the Magaambya head nurse) having an IC intervention for the Minotaur Magus that despite his Large size he is not the party defender and should stop trying to face-tank all the enemies, his medium armor alone is NOT sufficient defense.

[turbid dagger]

Man
Suddenly pining for inventor
I wish it was good 😭
There's something deeply appealing about a sword with an engine in it

[surreal basin]

It’s certainly not unplayable

[turbid dagger]

It sort of feels like Barbarian, but Way Worse
And/Or Thaum
You get like
Versatile blunt and trip on your greatsword + Rage But Really Bad

[surreal basin]

I mean sure but u also get out of combat stuff and overcharge abilities

[turbid dagger]

Does inventor even get a lot of out of combat stuff outside of crafting

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo71kxl?Diamond-Bankruptcy-Update

Do not buy Paizo books (or most other TTRPG books) from major retailers for the foreseeable future. Only buy them from a LGS or Paizo directly

[tribal steeple]

inventor has loads of cool style

and also the writers were having a field say when making the feats for it

[echo briar]

A major distributor has gone bankrupt. Major retailers may list new books, but will not receive them

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee, as I said vibes wise its very cool
But also it's damage features are a flat half int on your strikes and stuff that scales off your class DC

[silver geyser]

Being a relatively int-based class means good enough knowledge base. You are not a Thaumaturge, but it does exist

[turbid dagger]

I could fix it by using the Forbidden Archetype
Greatsword that is both a Shining Blade Ikon and a Weapon Innovation

[rustic cape]

Inventor is definitely playable and also seriously undertuned

[tribal steeple]

armor inventor is actually just an iron man suit

[turbid dagger]

Yeah like
We won't wipe by sheer virtue of my playing it, but
There are Objectively Better Options and that's awful
Especially weapon inventor
I can actually find some unique options for armor inventor

[frank crystal]

Imo armor invention is the way to go

The bonuses from that feel way better then weapon

[frank crystal]

Oh nvm you just mentioned that

[surreal basin]

Oh it’s definitely undertuned it’s from guns and gears

I don’t think anything from that is exceptionally good

[tribal steeple]

Each combat we have, I get more understanding of just how stupidly powerful Kineticist's Timber Sentinel is and why some people bemoan its existence. Each combat we have, I get more understanding of just how imperatively this group needs this level of damage-absorption. Not because the combats are overtuned but because one individual is so tactically inept that he is a constant magnet for critical Strike damage from multiple enemies (also nasty save effects but the trees cannot help him there).

[plucky snow]

It's extremely unclear to me how this is supposed to work with etched runes

[carmine oyster]

Inadvisable rules variant: separate initiative for each of your three actions

[surreal basin]

Nightmare

[carmine oyster]

If you want to do a 2-action activity just delay your first action until you have two in a row :)

[trim bluff]

This is a thing in fatal im pretty sure, you roll seperate initiative for all of your attacks

[true delta]

I did not expect to see Fatal mentioned in here, today or ever.

[trim bluff]

Fatal is permanently trapped in my mind purely because of how absurd it is, it feels like im studying a petri dish

[glossy ridge]

my only knowlage from is from kamsandwich and its staying that way

[true delta]

Light spoilers for Quest for the Frozen Flame

Are there any extant suggestions regarding the second volume of Quest for the Frozen Flame? Because I've got some problems with it, even though I like a lot.

My issues are:

• the final boss and their living arrangements are too high-fantasy.
• volumes 1 and 3 fit together and 2 is... pretty disconnected.
• the pursuing villains don't really do much here.
• the pursuers want the McGuffin but still pursue the party's group, even though the McGuffin is in the region.
• The final boss and their living arrangements are quite at odds with said boss coveting the McGuffin.
• Why do the people of the area help the PCs if they're going to take away the McGuffin the people benefit from? Removal of the McGuffin should have serious consequences for these people.
• Continuing the last point, won't the people be left unprotected from evil creatures?
• The two kinds of evil creatures in the area are thematically too similar for my taste.
• Is the area a failed utopia? Or past conflict frozen in time? The McGuffin should render life easy but there's both tyranny and a constant, evil threat.

I do like the idea of exploring the area and meeting those different factions, including an animistic religion. But there's too much reliance on... adventure logic if YNWIM. It feels like the volume would work better as a standalone.

Question: Is there a different volume of some AP which might fit better? Could I mess with scaling to go right to volume 3?

Otherwise, my ideas for remedies are:

• Give McGuffin to AP's final boss. (Also removes the silly curse)
• Have fun with the factions, explore some PC-specific side-plots
• Maybe have religious leader be the boss (I don't get the pacing of those two villain encounters yet)
• definitely remove final, high-fantasy area
• If final creature is kept, change it to ||bling dragon||
• Maybe replace McGuffin's effect with more evil weather magic??

... Still unsure what to do about the pursuers

Sorry for the wall of text. Part of my issue is that I struggle to make adventures work. And it's hard when APs have such issues built-in. Plus, I suppose D20 games don't lend themselves to cutting or swapping adventure content very well due to number-go-up. End of long, long post.

[solar storm]

I haven’t read QfFF so I can’t help much but this makes me curious what the final boss’s living arrangements are

[echo briar]

I have played it, and at least from a players perspective, literally none of that was ever a problem

||the valley felt like it made sense, and the people there greatly preferring to not be trapped and to not live under a tyrant over having nice weather makes perfect sense||

[true delta]

||Ice dragoness who lives in an a palace of ice and refuses to part with a divine flame McGuffin. Said flame is said to make the weather in the whole valley nice and warm, so I wonder how that leaves the palace intact, especially if she and the flame spend much time inside.||

[true delta]

Alrighty! Thanks for this perspective!

@echo briar Was it in any way weird that the pursuers don't go directly after the McGuffin?

[echo briar]

It’s been like a year sense I’ve played it, but I don’t remember it being weird.

However there’s a chance my GM changed something about that in particular

Considering I don’t remember the pursuers in that chapter much at all

[true delta]

Ah, thank you!

[rustic cape]

I agree with Polish Vampire, the section feels fine

[keen raptor]

Oh god that sounds horrific.

[echo briar]

This is something I’ve noticed

[wraith snow]

Morals are stored in the hairline

[echo briar]

And general appearance

It’s common in all media, but I’m not sure I’ve seen an ugly but morally good person in a Paizo product.

[clever cobalt]

Who dis

[echo briar]

Monstrous and good yes, but normal but ugly person? No

[tribal steeple]

being evil and malicious is linked with increased risk of physical deformities and ominous hairstyles

[astral prawn]

Honestly it's a pet peeve of mine, Basrakal kinda has it but largely sexy woman = redeemable/able to leave evil

[craggy thunder]

man battle harbinger gets

fucking scary starting at mid levels

[rapid wagon]

weird question, can i play artillery mage AND non magic healer at the same time? Do i have enough feat space to be effective in that way?

[warped orbit]

Medicine stuff is all skill feats, so that doesn't compete with anything

Bully your party into all getting Robust Health for the lower Battle Medicine cooldown

[rapid wagon]

we're getting mollywopped by a hag rn, and its cause both our casters are out, im thinking if i die, im gonna bring a mage because im at session consistently, so that we have magic templates on demand

[frank crystal]

There’s pretty much no archetypes which directly benefit an artillery mage build

[turbid dagger]

Cleric and Druid can do both magic and nonmagic healin with very little effort

[frank crystal]

Other then perhaps archetypes that get you more spell slots to cast with

[rapid wagon]

i feel like the mage build itself is good at being artillery as is i guess

[frank crystal]

Yah, just grab some medicine skill feats

[rapid wagon]

is a druid better at being wide are damage than a wizard?

area*

[wraith snow]

Elementalist is okay for this

[warped orbit]

Elementalist is weird

it's gotten a little better after the Remaster, because more spells have element tags now, but the list is still pretty limited

you give up a lot of really powerful spells, and don't increase your selection by that much mostly

the best thing about Elementalist is just the focus spells

[carmine oyster]

Beastmaster/Cavalier can help with mobility

[tribal steeple]

how so?

[craggy thunder]

It's auras start to get juiced and there's a lot of pseudosmite feats at that level so it becomes kind of like a paladin

[wraith snow]

This is exactly my current Kingmaker character actually lol

[surreal basin]

I’d say the primal and arcane lists are p much equally set up artillery, it’s just what u wanna do with the other spells

And consider grab medic as ur archetype with free archetype, it’s insanely good

[tight flare]

So uhhh suppose I want to have a player controlled mech. Are there any rules or guidance for this?
It won't be something available to the players all the time, but rather something that can be brought out for one or two fights

PF2

[carmine oyster]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Vehicles.aspx?ID=34

https://2e.aonprd.com/Vehicles.aspx?ID=69

For a smaller scale, you could look at the Summoner's merge with eidolon or assorted transformation spells

[tight flare]

Ooooohhh that makes sense a vehicle!
Yeah Imight look at maybe the eidolon stuff instead hmmm... Will see what I do about this

Steam Giant is of an appropriate size

[trim bluff]

ok so, as someone more used to dnd 5e, i want to say, hearing "does a 30 hit?" (directed at our paladin, level 4) "no" is absolutely terrifying and apparently this campaign goes up to level 15 and gets a quite few mythic levels so im wondering how insane this is gonna get

[tight flare]

Even scarier is "I rolled a 30 on my will save". "That's a critical failure"

[limber comet]

Team+'s next supplement, Magic+ is coming soon

[solar storm]

This is a really silly Animist build

(Shoving people in choke points with River Carving Mountains+Roaring Heart)

[rustic cape]

Animist is such a good class

Partly because so much of its power budget is Weird Shit

[solar storm]

Yeah I'm doing a weird one centered around being disruptive with the river spirit and Roaring Heart and such

Using Stalwart Defender to be an ersatz frontliner

[rustic cape]

Nice

[desert vale]

Question. How do baby, Algolthu, work

The Aboleth equivalent

Do they split?

Asking because of a random videogame I like has Aboleth which reproduce kind of like sea anenome?

Basically being split into the sessile polypal mothers and the Aboleth. Also. Androdai huh

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah, they divide

they also fuse, which is how they make veiled masters

[desert vale]

Huh.

Reason I was thinking about this is because I realiEd that the video game series, Dominions, with the pretender gods seeking to seize the throne lf heaven, has the Aboleth getting crushed by an asteroid

[rapid wagon]

Wait how powerful/ dangerous are aboleths?

[surreal basin]

Individually or as a faction

Because at their peak they summoned a meteor that was FF7 levels of apocalypse

Even after being intercepted by several gods it caused an ice age and wiped most life off the planet

Individually they bottom out at CR10

[solar thorn]

duality of crits

[surreal basin]

WOOF

Was this in the same turn?

[solar thorn]

two turns away yeah

[surreal basin]

Ah okay

[solar thorn]

fatal does silly things when it rolls hot

[surreal basin]

Looks at the multiple gun users I’ve seen

Uh huh

[warped orbit]

the min damage crit is so sad

[solar thorn]

the players barely won this fight so another bad crit could have changed things

[wooden orbit]

Kinda thinking how cool it’d be to run/play in a campaign set in Tian Xia after Battlecry comes out focusing on a war between the successor states of Lung Wa

[echo briar]

I just had my hyper conservative cousin say “dnd is too woke, I’m going to pathfinder”

How do I tell him?

[warped orbit]

lmaooo

[echo briar]

Should I start with the lesbian polycule goddesses, or should I work up to that?

[light gyro]

isnt this in like the core book? shockingly, yet another problem that can be solved by just reading the rulebook

tangentially, i didnt notice the daggers at first so i thought the rogue was just trying to do something with her hands to feel like she was helping with the spell

[rustic cape]

IIRC there are pride PDFs you could send him :P

[vocal ember]

you could just point out the character sheet has a pronouns section. tho personally I think it would be funnier to not inform him and see how long it takes him to figure it out

[clever cobalt]

iirc 1e at least has a Chud problem

Obviously 2e is a lot better but

[glossy ridge]

why does 1e vs 2e have that

[echo briar]

Late 1e didn’t from my understanding

Early 1e had Paizo trying to do things dnd wouldn’t, and then realizing why they wouldn’t

[echo briar]

TBF, all those knifes clearly missed

[vocal ember]

my understanding is that 1e Pathfinder has a habit of being "edgier D&D"

[light gyro]

Hey the leftmost hit the skull! Left to right, increasing MAP, very verisimilitudinous.

[craggy thunder]

weeeeellll

she'd be swinging her arm outward, meaning the leftmost hit through the skull is the luckiest MAP 3 crit success ever

[carmine oyster]

She could have thrown them with her left arm for the extremely efficient throw four daggers into handhold turn

[warped orbit]

handholding with your wife is always efficient

[rustic cape]

Mostly, drift in who's doing the writing

Bear in mind that a lot of this stuff very suddenly improved post-unionization (although it was already better as of 2e)

Paizo is run by gamer edgelords, but during the PF1e the line was also being written by said gamer edgelords

But a lot of those names have left or been kicked upstairs

[wooden orbit]

Drop him in the deep end

[turbid dagger]

After some idle contemplation urged on by friends, I am in the homebrew pits
Making weapon group specific feats for fighter

[warped orbit]

ooh, interesting

[turbid dagger]

Idea is that each group gets 2, one on the level after you lock in a weapon mastery group and the other similarly after weapon legend

Also as a bonus take a monk stance I made after seeing the Warrior Poet archetype from 1e

[rustic cape]

That seems solid

Fun, too

Shitload of action compression on battle dance but I think not excessive

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee, the comparison point was Stumbling Feint in the same class

[rustic cape]

I like making One Inch Punch good

[turbid dagger]

SF is feint-strike-feint-strike, BD is either stride-strike or step-feint-strike
And YES
That was my actual main mechanical goal with this stance
Make a stance that wants to use one inch punch more than flurry

[rustic cape]

Double step with a free feint attempt on each into three-action one-inch punch seems solid

[turbid dagger]

The Swallow Stance bonus feint is once per round specifically to stop Elf Step from gettin two tries at that Feint :3

[rustic cape]

Oh right

[turbid dagger]

(Also 1e Warrior Poet's late game deal is about combining Vital Strike with Spring Attack and its upgrades, which this seems like a fun way to imitate)

[rustic cape]

Is there a reason the upgrade feat is 8th level instead of 6th?

[turbid dagger]

Waterfowl Stance is another level 2 weapon stance, and its 'secret technique' is also level 8

(Using 'secret technique' to indicate the fancy metastrikes most stances get at level 6ish)

This also gives a prospective Swallow Stance User an opportunity at 6 to snag One Inch Punch in preparation for Battle Dance

[rapid wagon]

Question, what's the like... breakdown on the Druid's niche?

[turbid dagger]

This is a question I've much struggled with myself
The fundamental answer, I think, is that it just doesn't have as much of one as most casters
Its a generalist
It's got good survivability, decent saves, a list that lends itself to a healthy mix of damage and healing
Its focus spells are simple and good, largely
You can expect it to perform admirably in most situations, similarly to a fighter or monk on the martial side of things

Psychics are amazing at damage but don't have a lot of slots and very little defenses
Warpriests are sturdy but bad at actually hurting bad dudes
Druid has none of these downsides and a slightly lesser version of most of the upsides

[rapid wagon]

Hmm OK, so identity wise it's a little less focused on its own and it's more about how you build it, is what I'm getting

I was curious as to why I might pick it to be artillery over, say, a wizard, or a sorcerer

[surreal basin]

Like cleric, Druid’s mechanical identity is entirely subclass dependent

[turbid dagger]

The answer is that a wizard can't heal in a pinch, sorcerers are locked into their repetoire, and both are much more fragile
They're still good options, but druid has those advantages in its favor

[rapid wagon]

Sounds like druid has a bit of that jack of trades energy that I like

[turbid dagger]

Its def the most jack of all trades caster, imo

[rapid wagon]

Ok cool, tyty

[tribal steeple]

Druid is pretty broad. They make good blasters for sure but that's because Primal tradition (also storm druid focus spell). They can be good party healers but that's because Primal tradition (and Cornucopia focus spell I guess, also WIS so medicine checks). They can be off-strikers thanks to battle forms (wildshape druids, Primal spells). They kind of do a lot, and having access to the FULL PRIMAL LIST each day means you can flex into most of these roles whenever it's needed.

Just gotta prepare the right spells.

[rustic cape]

More than anything they're the primal list caster and the primal list is really strong

[turbid dagger]

So thisun received notably more pushback in my friend group- for being undertuned? My thought is that rerolls are realllllly highly priced in the system so I ought do that too

[warped orbit]

it is pretty harsh in having both a penalty and a further punishment for failing

[turbid dagger]

My thought at the time was that if your setting yourself up with flat footed -4 is swinging normal compared to most martials

[warped orbit]

that is true I suppose

[vocal ember]

I feel like this should be something like the Martial Artists' Follow-up Strike maybe.

[turbid dagger]

Hmmmm, that might be good, ye
Not sure if I want to rip it off wholesale, but

Flourish complicates things, though

[vocal ember]

Like, usually things are their own action because it's difficult to make stuff that could stack with everything else.

[echo briar]

I don’t think these should require weapon mastery

For any even vague optimizer, just requiring you to use the weapon will almost always mean you will have the mastery anyways, and there is nothing really gained from stopping these from working on level 19 characters or ones who get these via multiclass.

[turbid dagger]

The point of them is that they're tied to your weapon group of choice
So locking into one weapon group from levels 5 to 19 has some upsides and is not 'you lose functional access to most weapons in exchange for having your system math remain the same'

[echo briar]

If that’s your goal, then these probably fail simply due to the fact that they are optional feats.

And again, 99% of the time, you will not take the sword feat without being master with swords. The benefits of stopping that 1% is fairly small.

[turbid dagger]

Well I'm still going to make all of them :3

[vocal ember]

I mean, I think the benefit in this case is communicating what the feat is about. Though now that I think about it, it could be kinda cool if you could use them with other weapons.

[wary yoke]

Seeing the fighter weapon homebrew reminds me that I was mulling over making archetypes for a PoW-style initiating system inspired by how the Exemplar works

Since I love how the Exemplar works, but the problem is that it's shackled to a class concept that is hit or miss for GMs

[carmine oyster]

Anyone have recommendations for held items for a 5th-level hydrokineticist?

(I'm setting up a pregen for a one-shot)

Staff of Water is an option, but doesn't provide that much they don't already have

And a shield is rather obsoleted by Deflecting Wave

[echo briar]

Holly crap, the new website looks great.

Sure, it’s a fairly standard website, but unlike the old one it looks like it was made this millennia

[clever cobalt]

Holy shit Paizo update their website finally

[echo briar]

*will update soon

this is a preview

[wraith snow]

Its a lvl7 item but if you tone down the attack roll on it, Decanter of Endless Water gives them a fun tool to play with for their base kinesis

[carmine oyster]

Hm, that is fun

And since they already have Generate from Base Kinesis it basically just speeds up what they can already do

[tribal steeple]

    Wand of Tailwind (2nd Rank)        160 gp (Speed +10, 8 hours)
    Obsidian Goggles                 150 gp (Darkvision 1 hour)
    Skeleton Key                    125 gp (Thievery +1 lockpicking, Knock 1/day)
    Arboreal Boots                    160 gp (+1 Acrobatics)
    Armor Potency +1                160 gp (AC +1)
    Armor Shadow Rune                55 gp (Stealth +1)
    Diplomat's Badge                125 gp (Diplomacy +1)
    Wands, 2nd Rank                    160 gp (Tailwind, Vanishing Tracks, Gecko Grip, Water Breathing))```
this is some stuff I've got on my item wishlist for my Metal/Wood kineticist (druid free archetype).

    Gate Attenuator        60 gp (Impulse attack +1, Thunderstrike, Flourishing Flora)
    Bracelet of Dashing    58 gp (Acrobatics +1)
    Heartmoss            55 gp (Resistance 2 mental, Emotion Saves +1)
    Crafter's Eyepiece    60 gp (Crafting +1)
    Coyote Cloak        60 gp (Survival +1)
    Scrolls, 2nd Rank    12 gp (Cleanse Affliction, Clear Mind, Sound Body, See The Unseen, Mist, Vanishing Tracks, Water Breathing, Water Walk, Gentle Breeze)
    Wands, 1st Rank        60 gp (Cleanse Cuisine, Grease, Ant Haul, Helpful Steps, Alarm)
    
Level 4
    Spacious Pouch         75 gp (Bag of Holding rename)
    Staff of Healing     90 gp (Extra healing +1)
    Spiny Lodestone        90 gp (Athletics +1)
    Lifting Belt        80 gp (Athletics +1)```
and levels 3 and 4 for reference

maybe something seems appealing. if the water kineticist is already using kinetic activation then a lot of primal spell stuff is on the table

Staff of Water is borderline irrelevant for a water kineticist with the right impulses though, especially if they have the water junction that lets them push people around

hydraulic push isn't even a substitute for kinetic blast, since 3d6 < 2d6+4 (no way you don't have +4 CON at level 5)

otherwise though, I recommend going onto AON skills (https://2e.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx) and at the top of each skill's page there's an ITEM BONUSES collapsible table that shows all the items that give bonuses to that skill. Browse through according to level and see which ones have both the desired bonus and a neat effect.

really just filtering the ALL ITEMS tables is like 70% of the effort to finding useful items for any given thing

[carmine oyster]

I thought for wands/scrolls/staves you can only use ones that share a trait with one of your elements? The rest of these are phenomenal though, ty very much!

And I had no idea about the item bonuses table on the skills pages, that's a lot less overwhelming than looking at the whole list

[tribal steeple]

in my example's case the kineticist doesn't have Kinetic Activation but DOES have a druid dedication which enables the entire Primal tradition (albeit not inheriting the kineticist DC)

[carmine oyster]

Ahh makes sense

For a single-gate hydrokineticist Kinetic Activation definitely seems of dubious utility, unfortunately

[tribal steeple]

so all the wands and scrolls and stuff are DC-less or roll-less utility things. Rank 2 Tailwind is an 8-hour buff so a wand means you can more or less just handwave having +10 speed at all times

[carmine oyster]

If I ever play one myself going for a dedication for utility spells is a very good idea, though I'll probably not do it here to limit complexity

[clever cobalt]

I like pure fire kineticist

If only because you can do a fuckton of damage when played right

Alternatively Fire/Metal

[tribal steeple]

unfortunately there are actually very few items with the Water trait at 5th level. there are some though

[carmine oyster]

Well, I'm only looking for items from 1st-4th level, since that's what the character wealth by level has for a character of 5th level

[tribal steeple]

Kinetic Activation itself is pretty not useful unless you're really looking to use water spell scrolls or wands that aren't attacks/saves

[carmine oyster]

It's almost useful for the extra range! But Weapon Infusion exists

[carmine oyster]

Yeah, I'm not planning on adding it unless there's an item that I find that would specifically work with it

[tribal steeple]

you know I had been kinda feeling like weapon infusion wasn't doing a lot for me so I retrained it away to Magnetic Pinions, and then the very next fight we get into we're dealing with something that floats 40ft above the ground and all my other effects are 30ft range >:T

[carmine oyster]

Oooof

[tribal steeple]

it's okay, the thing kept coming back down due to reasons but it felt REAL AWKWARD when I had essentially nothing to contribute on my turn

[carmine oyster]

There's always the tried-and-true tactic of rude gestures

[tribal steeple]

anyway uh

• gate attenuator
• bag of holding
• a spellheart perhaps, easy way to get an alternate damage type as a spell/cantrip
• whatever items give you a +1 to your most important skills (intimidate, medicine, athletics, acrobatics, etc)

kineticist is a wierdo class that really doesn't need items beyond armor runes and gate attenuators so you can kinda just grab whatever

if you're the kind of nerd for it, a bunch of mundane adventuring gear can go a long way

    Basic Adventuring Gear (8 gp, 24 sp, 9 cp)
        Backpack                 1 sp    x
        Basic Crafter's Book    1 sp    x
        Compass                    1 gp    x
        Cookware                1 gp    x
        Crowbar                    5 sp    x
        Hourglass                3 gp    x
        Mirror                    1 gp    x
        Primal Symbol            N/A        x
        Ruler                    5 sp    x
        Signal Whistle            8 cp    x
        Ten-Foot Pole            1 cp    x
        Tent (Pup)                8 sp    x
        Tool (Short)            4 sp    x
        Trundle Wheel            1 gp    x
        Writing Set                1 gp    x
    Climbing Kit        5 sp
    Explorer's Clothing 1 sp
    Antidote            3 gp
    Healing Potion        4 gp
    Versatile Tinderbox    20 gp
    Scrolls, 1st Rank     4 gp (Fleet Step, Jump, Helpful Steps, Pest Form)```

[carmine oyster]

Spellhearts are still limited by Kinetic Activation unless I add a dedication trait I think, but I'll have to dig through the skill items

[tribal steeple]

never be caught without your ten foot pole, you can use it for so many things

[carmine oyster]

Tragically, 500 Toads does not have the water trait

Or it would be Wand of 500 Toads all the way

[tribal steeple]

TIL of 500 Toads, what a great spell to have on a wand.

[carmine oyster]

Horrifying

[clever cobalt]

Level 10 cast of 500 Toads

[carmine oyster]

False advertising!

[warped orbit]

oh lmao, I didn't think about how they would need to rename that one

[clever cobalt]

Whats it renamed from?

[warped orbit]

Mithral Tree

[clever cobalt]

Ah

Wait did they change Mithril to Dawnsilver? I didnt notice that in the remaster

[vocal ember]

Yeah

[astral prawn]

Anyone come up with low-level mythic feats for their own games?

[trail nova]

Huh, weird. Mithril is very... not D&D.

[light gyro]

though not an unreasonable change as part of the Great Copyright Ass-Covering

[solar storm]

Mithril is iirc technically a copyright of the Tolkien estate but it’s not strongly defended

So I can see changing it as part of the Great Ass Covering yeah

[vocal ember]

technically D&D spells it mithral which is also the spelling Pathfinder used

[echo briar]

Pathfinder should have just used a 3rd spelling, like miithril

[tribal steeple]

Mythrel

[echo briar]

Dawn silver, pronounced mithral

[vocal ember]

mirthlol

[light gyro]

POSSIBLY FINAL ROUND OF THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN: BOSS ROLLS A 1 A 20 A 20 AND A 1 IN A ROW

[warped orbit]

Damn

[light gyro]

1 on a quick grab, 20 on a hidden check, 20 on a hit, 1 on a quick grab

[light gyro]

informing my party that rasputin is canon

[wraith snow]

He sure is

One of my current PCs is a relative, even

[light gyro]

okay!!!!! after 2 years and 9 months, Strength of Thousands is over!!!!!!!

[surreal basin]

Having stuff from that AP be relavent in the background is a running joke in my group

Namely a series of media that’s about the fantastical war torn land of Russia

[wraith snow]

iirc the item description for Mustard Gas heavily implies that it was recreated by a Russian from Irrisen

[warped orbit]

yeah

[surreal basin]

Also heavily implied the Egyptian pantheon was banished to Egypt era earth during the godsrain which is why we have them on earth

Which is fucking hilarious

[vital kiln]

Question regarding Ancestral Weapon: Does the base weapon cost + masterworking costs + silvering cost factor into the "cannot exceed 500 gp" ceiling
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/ancestral-weapon/

[surreal basin]

Yes

[vital kiln]

So this just

Kinda stinks then

Worse version of Signature Moves

...why the fuck is it called Signature Moves anyway, Signature Weapon makes more sense

[surreal basin]

Is that also a trait

[vital kiln]

Aye

900GP for a masterwork weapon and while you're holding it, you also gain a +1 trait bonus to bluffing and intimidating

[frozen flame]

Ancestral Weapon gives you a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls, not Bluff and Intimidate

Which is a bit harder to get, and it works with all weapons of that material

So it still has a purpose

[novel merlin]

In pf1e there are about a million strictly better than others traits

[vital kiln]

...oh shit you're right

...also where the fuck are the rules for silver weapons

I can only find the rules for 2e's silver weapons

[frozen flame]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/special-materials/

It's Silver, Alchemical (because it's basically a straight port of D&D 3.5 and that's what it was called there)

[vital kiln]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah okay

Thanks Retro

[surreal basin]

Also

Traits are v unbalanced, don’t worry about one option vs another

They’re basically the 1e equivalent of the stuff we get from adventure paths now like the blood mage that’s entirely disconnected from the balance of the actual game

They’re made in the void of the adventure they’re from

[novel merlin]

The best ones are generally just the ones that are half a feat

+2 initiative and +1 to a save

[trail nova]

I like the fun weird traits.

Stuff that gives you fun weird minor tricks, or like “can order small things anywhere”

[carmine oyster]

Hmm, this is a bit awkward - a Hydrokineticist who picks up a critical blast junction will blast themselves with the splash damage, and can't use Deflecting Wave to get resistance since it's not a hostile effect

[vital kiln]

...thought that occurs to me

Is it worth snagging proficiency in a butchering axe and then using a Small one for a one-handed d12 weapon or would that not actually work

[frozen flame]

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

It would work but you're going to be eating -2 on every attack, so probably not worth it.

[vital kiln]

Doesn't that only apply to larger sizes?

[frozen flame]

It says "for each size category of difference" not "for each size category larger" so

[vital kiln]

...ah, yeah, so it does

Definitely more worth it to just use a bastard sword, d10 vs d12 isn't that large

...on the topic of differently sized butchering axes, is it worth the -2 penalty to deal 4d6 damage with a Large one?

Or is the extra d6 ultimately not worth the hit to your attack rolls?

[frozen flame]

It would only go up to 3d8

Based on... this

https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9t3f

[vital kiln]

Ah, I thought it added an extra die

Question still stands I guess, is 3d8 much more worth it than 3d6?

Same floor but a much higher ceiling in terms of damage

Average is a good 3 points of damage higher too

[warped orbit]

A die step is on average 1 damage

[frozen flame]

The actual answer is that it's not worth figuring out how the rules for oversized weapons work

Because they might have errata'd those at some point

[vital kiln]

Eh, yeah, true

And I don't feel like engaging in Internet Archaeology to find it

[vital kiln]

How common are spells that target touch AC?

[novel merlin]

Basically all of them thag go off an attack roll lmao

[vital kiln]

...and I elected to make a low dex build in a magic school campaign

Fucking great, now I have to start over from the beginning so I don't constantly eat shit

[novel merlin]

Yeah in 1e most spells that don't require saves are touch

Granted they use the casters shitty ranged attack roll mod

But they are the counter to big armor boy

[vital kiln]

...is there actually any use case for heavy armor...?

Instead of just

Investing in DEX and just wearing medium armor?

[novel merlin]

Investing in dex is harder

Pf1e gives waaaaay fewer stat boosts than 2e

Also there's flat footed which is your AC without dex or dodge

You are always flat footed at the start of combat until you take your first turn

[vital kiln]

Ah, I see

...why the fuck is a breastplate reducing my speed by a whole ten feet

[tribal steeple]

5th level wood/metal kineticist, get
time to use Safe Elements and Ravel of Thorns to become an unforgiving tar pit of movement punishment

highest AC in the party, highest HP in the party, replenishing sources of temp HP on top, Cornucopia focus spell for 3d6+12 healing off cooldown

it's time to soak some damage

[vital kiln]

Good lord

[carmine oyster]

Anyone happen to have a calendar for Golarion that includes solar eclipses?

(If not I'll probably just choose a random day, but it seems like the sort of thing that probably exists somewhere)

[limber comet]

Battlecry soon

Very soon

[limber comet]

The beacons are lit, Andoran calls for aid

[vital kiln]

There any random bits of adventuring gear y'all would recommend

I'm playing a species that doesn't need to eat or drink or breathe or sleep, so it frees me up a lot to buy silly shit

[turbid dagger]

If you are melee and have low light vision, a candlecap
Lets you perform at your best in darkness
Less useful if you have normal vision but still nice, obviously not useful for darkvision

[vital kiln]

Oh, good idea

...if I'm a caster, could I buy an animal and turn it into a familiar?

[turbid dagger]

Uhhhhhh normally you just get a familiar as part of a class feature

[vital kiln]

Zog

Might still get an animal anyway

Oh shit I can buy a pseudodragon?

...why are they so cheap wtf

Relatively cheap anyway

[rustic cape]

Heavy armor has a higher total AC

+6 vs +5

And Bulwark helps diminish the effect of lack of dex on reflex saves

[vital kiln]

I see

[carmine oyster]

That's for 2e, not 1e, I think

[rustic cape]

OH

Oh we were talking about 1E

@vital kiln Okay for 1E the simple answer is: AC isn't a very good means of defense at the higher levels where dex can beat heavy armor anyway, and most classes want strength for damage

[novel merlin]

Buying random animals isn't very helpful because they don't scale in level

[echo briar]

Rubbing kit. It has saved me so many times

Ancient runes or carvings no one can understand? Make a rubbing and find someone more knowledgeable

[silver geyser]

Always have a few vials on hand.

Have a dagger as well, not even for weapon purposes.

[vital kiln]

Oh aye, always good to have a little knife at hand

[vital kiln]

Are skeleton keys particularly useful?

[surreal basin]

In 1e or 2

[vital kiln]

1e

[surreal basin]

If you have less than a +10 sure

[wraith snow]

Got art done for a homebrew campaign I'm in

[eager mountain]

https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo/clip/CrazyAliveJaguarDancingBanana-Kk823jw62ciORbZ0

[rapid wagon]

so my monk died. I'm now faced with the option of becoming undead, specifically a mummy. Our rogue also died.

Party is a champion of urgathoa, a fighter, a bard, and a sorcerer who primarily debuffs.

Im considering going a storm druid instead, so that we have a proper blaster

no matter which way i cut the pie, im still our designated healer tho

[surreal basin]

Is the rogue becoming undead and is the champ undead

[rapid wagon]

nah currently no undead party members after my kineticist died

the rogue was duskwalker and apparently has reasons why they cant be undeaded

[surreal basin]

Bloodlords?

[rapid wagon]

yee

[surreal basin]

How far are yall

[rapid wagon]

not sure as far as books, but we're in sallowshore

[surreal basin]

Oh okay

||do yall have the negative healing for your living party members?||

[rapid wagon]

some, took it, i dont think all of them did; ive been relying on treat wounds with stitch flesh

to cover all bases

[surreal basin]

Everyone should really take it since positive energy is like

Actually illegal

In Geb

[rapid wagon]

yeahhhh....

i was also considering going an evil cleric

[frozen flame]

The undead archetypes aren't amazing (I'm playing a Vampire Exemplar at the moment) but Mummy isn't bad except for the fire weakness.

[rapid wagon]

i just mostly like the vibe for a monk

[frozen flame]

It does have a lot of synergy with unarmed attacks so if you weren't a weapon monk, it would work decently there.

[rapid wagon]

does the changes to my unarmed also affect my stance attacks?

[frozen flame]

Presumably your monk stuff would override the basic fist changes

But the other feats trigger on a "fist Strike" so... that probably works with stances?

[warped orbit]

there's like no downside to negative healing in Blood Lords

it even gives it to anyone who didn't already have it at the end of the first book

[frozen flame]

There's a technical downside in that a lot of the encounters are full of enemies that only deal negative damage

So the GM has to change that or they literally can't hurt the party

[warped orbit]

yeah, but that's a problem for the GM 😛

just a consequence of Blood Lords having a weird flavor conflict

[rapid wagon]

iirc in a like writers talk on it, that was kind of on purpose because they generally expect most party members to be alive/not have that feature

not be undead i mean

[warped orbit]

also if you mean the Mummy dedication, no that only changes the damage die for your basic unarmed

but Monk also already does that

[warped orbit]

I guess
but also again, they literally give it to you not too far into the AP

and with positive healing illegal, you are already heavily incentivized to get it

plus who wouldn't play an undead character in the undead AP

[frozen flame]

You can also play a cleric of a god that allows both void and vitality (like Nethys, who's super appropriate for Geb)

[rapid wagon]

apparently based on their playtesting, most people

[frozen flame]

And take Versatile Font

[warped orbit]

it's just a very weird choice overall

[frozen flame]

Yes it is illegal but don't get caught; this is the Lawful Evil AP 😛

[warped orbit]

Blood Lords also has the thing that a lot of the choices you might expect to be flavorwise fitting, like Undead Sorc or similar, suffer from the fact that you mostly fight other undead

[frozen flame]

Anything who wants to play a lich has to be alive until level 12, at least

[warped orbit]

so negative and evil/unholy damage got kinda screwed

[surreal basin]

So there’s a reason for this

Unless they changed it

Their playtesters min max insanely hard

Undead Archetypes aren’t perfect so they didn’t take them

[warped orbit]

yeah but even then, everyone gets it anyway very quickly into the AP

[rapid wagon]

Everyone gets the option, done people in my group didn't take the option for whatever reason

Likely on one level or another not targeting the mechanical benefit

[warped orbit]

a lot of NPC spellcasters in Blood Lords also have spells prepped that only work against living creatures
even some of the traps and haunts only work against the living

[rapid wagon]

I'm not saying they made the best choice, I'm just saying that they made that choice.

That and others almost certainly did. Especially since not one of us is going into it with any foreknowledge of what to expect the rest of the adventure

[rapid wagon]

My first character was undead, my second was not.

Really just trying to decide if I want to keep my second character or move to a third

[frank crystal]

Can a character who can cast a specific tradition via innate spells from their ancestry cast spell scrolls from that school?

[warped orbit]

innate spells do not let you cast with scrolls or wands

[surreal basin]

What really?

God Wands and scrolls fucking suck so bad by default

[warped orbit]

you need a spellcasting dedication, or something equivalent like Eldritch Archer

[surreal basin]

Man I really hate how much Paizo wants consumables to be just unuseable

[frank crystal]

Ah ok

[surreal basin]

Although I do feel it’s an ask ur GM situation unless ur in a society game

[warped orbit]

getting a casting dedication or just Trick Magic Item isn't that bad IMO

[wary yoke]

Combat with yellow musk creepers, I'm feeling very alone after charging up with Marathon Dash (allies stay back even with free movement) and everyone else has barely moved up, leading to me being the only target (I am focused on and crit, so I am now dying)

[tribal steeple]

casting dedication + wand of [long duration buff spell] is big QOL

[warped orbit]

you can just get Trick Magic Item for your Tailwind wand too

[wary yoke]

We have a battle bard, a champion, a rogue, and a weapon inventor

[tribal steeple]

wand of see the unseen is great stuff
"i have had enough of this invisibility bullshit"

"no i will never not be seeing the invisible things"

[turbid dagger]

Scrolls and wands honestly feel like the best consumables
Its potions and such that feel like they're not worth using ever imo

2 actions for something that is patently worse than a spell feels worse than an extra action for an extra spell

[warped orbit]

I've been thinking of giving people like 2-3 slots for consumables that can be drawn for free

which, you can already kind of do with a Retrieval Belt and Retrieval Prisms

to make potions and other consumables a bit less onerous to use in combat

[wraith snow]

Bombs can be relevant, provided the characters know what to expect

[surreal basin]

See it is until disappearance happens

Perhaps one of the most bullshit spells in the game lmao

[wraith snow]

eg, there was a troll-heavy-arc in a game I played recently, and the players got a lot of value out of fire and acid bombs

[surreal basin]

“I’m invisible but not really, nu uh, I’m not invisible u just can’t see me”

Shut up nerd

[wraith snow]

Same with the vitality bombs in Bloodlords, but as has been mentioned here before, Bloodlords in general is just really awkward for a full undead party

a lot of fights turn into really awkward standoffs where the players cannot actually be hurt but also the enemy might be very obnoxious to actually harm

[surreal basin]

Tbh any fight where we couldn’t be hurt my GM went “the enemy instantly gives up”

Because why wouldn’t they

[wraith snow]

Usually with my GM it was "the enemy moves directly through a wall, now what?"

[surreal basin]

Or “we can skip this combat, you literally can’t lose and don’t need to spend any resources”

[wraith snow]

though yeah sometimes it was the auto-skip because they couldn't easily flee and they weren't smart enough to yield

[tribal steeple]

skyrim bandit ai

"NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE!"

[wraith snow]

LMAO

[wraith snow]

I haven't phrased it like this before but this sums up an issue I've had with a lot of games I've been in before very well

[tribal steeple]

this is ANOTHER WIN for the notion of Sitreps and defined objectives so you can conclusively say "this is exactly how much they should fight for"

but this is not a system problem, it is a GM problem

it is on GMs to have a good understanding of when enemies should cut their losses, and unfortunately a lot of my play experience in pathfinder combat has been deathmatches

[turbid dagger]

TBH, I've slowly cooled on Lancer sitreps since my last few sessions with the system
Maybe this was a table issue but it often felt like doing the cool fight was a detriment to winning because you instead needed to like
Scramble around on a time limit scanning stuff

[surreal basin]

How do u mean

Vis a vis that last part

[turbid dagger]

Like, if your in a Recon sitrep
It's often felt to me like shooting a dude is wasting time that I could spend hoofing it to one of the CZs way over there so we can actually Win The Fight
But shooting guys is more fun that ignoring them and running around

[surreal basin]

Well

The GM should reasonably make like

The enemies a roadblock to doing that

Either by being threatening enough that you can’t ignore them; better at scoring points than the players, or too good at stopping the players from scoring

[turbid dagger]

Escort, shooting guys is often wasting time that you can spend running the football up towards the end zone
Extraction is similar
Obviously the bad guys are trying to stop you and therefore killing them is good
But often it feels not worth the effort to dig in and kill a berzerker and all its HP over like
Ramming it away from the escort objective and runnin away with it
But yeah how much this is the game and how much is the games I've been playing is nebulous
I just thought it worth mentioning when sitreps got brought up as an alternative to PF2e 'lets just fight' style combat

[tribal steeple]

my grievance is chiefly that 100% of my pathfinder experience has been "HP slugging match" of varying forms, be it beefy single target that the fighter Strikes repeatedly or a big gaggle of 15 enemies that the wizard casts Chain Lightning on

there is nothing but making the enemy's hp drop to 0

consequently, any notion of tactics beyond the highest damage action loses value

sometimes you do in fact just want to roll dice and beat the hell out of a bunch of enemies, but in order for that not to become stale you have to break it up with other objectives (the topical Sitreps)

even the times where there notionally was a different objective (e.g. "ensure the village doesn't get burned down by the invading giants and their dragon") the ONLY actual solution to that objective is to just kill all the enemies

[surreal basin]

Eehhhhhh

Not sure I agree with this necessarily

[tribal steeple]

YES I know there are going to be exceptions and doing things like grapple/trip and debuffs are not "highest damage effects" but in this context I consider them to largely be facilitating those "highest damage effects"

I trip the enemy so they can be hit easier. I blind the archer so they cannot hit us while we hit other enemies.

Using lancer as example again, Ram is a basic action you can use to bop someone off a control zone or payload objective. Why would you ever use Shove or Trip in pathfinder if it didn't somehow make your strikers more able to strike things? Unless you're shoving them off a ledge, which ties right back into "highest damage effect" as an enemy who is 20ft below you is taking fall damage and thoroughly neutralized.

[craggy thunder]

fist of the ruby phoenix party idea entirely caping K-Pop Demon Hunters' bit; entire party of performance-based characters that have soulforger or mind smith

[warped orbit]

so Mythspeaker does apparently confirm that Mythic PCs totally ignore Mythic Resistance on monsters

so it doesn't really do anything, unless you use a Mythic monster against non Mythic PCs

[clever cobalt]

Oh?

[warped orbit]

basically there is a new skill feat that gives you a once per 10 minutes free action to reduce Mythic resistance on your next Strike
but then it also says the following

If your Strike would already ignore mythic resistance (because you are a mythic character or wield a mythic weapon), your next successful Strike against the creature instead deals an additional 1d6 precision damage. This additional damage increases to 1d8 if your Hero-God Lore or Legendary Beast Lore proficiency rank is expert, 1d10 if your rank is master, or 1d12 if your rank is legendary.

so Mythic Resistance only ever applies against non Mythic creatures
meaning in a Mythic game, it does basically nothing except maybe screw over minions and summons more

[echo briar]

And casters, who don’t have an equivalent for mythic saves

[warped orbit]

yeah

Mythic Resilience still is a big issue for casters
especially since there is basically no reason to use one of the "slots" of a monster on Mythic Resistance

[clever cobalt]

Good to know

[surreal basin]

So there’s a funny addendum to this

Which is stuff like mythic strike actually contradicts this

And implies mythic characters do NOT normally bypass it

So it’s still vague

[heavy fulcrum]

no, mythic resistance has always been overcome by mythic characters

from the Mythic Monster Templates

Mythic Resistance (1st): The creature gains resistance to all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures equal to half its level. If it gains mythic resistance a second time, increase the resistance to its full level. Mythic weapons bypass this resistance even if the creature wielding them is not mythic.

i think mythic strike is just... weird

[surreal basin]

Hm

Weird

Yeah that’s strange lmao

[heavy fulcrum]

most of its function is the mythic proficiency anyway

either that or Mythic Characters don't actually count as Mythic Creatures because of the everlasting "we never printed those exact words in that exact order so its technically not a rule"

[surreal basin]

That would be very stupid

Admittedly I also think a skeleton drowning is very stupid

So

[rustic cape]

I think PF2e being 95% of an amazing game is pretty damn respectable and I’ve never personally met a GM who wasn’t willing to paper over the remaining 5%

So yeah, what Emily said

[echo briar]

Before we start getting previews, what is the most off the wall thing you think will be in Battlecry! ?

[limber comet]

Troop of mythic guys

[clever cobalt]

When does Battlecry drop again?

[echo briar]

We know we are getting a new thaumaturge implement. I know it will be a siege weapon, and will suck.

End of the month.

[warped orbit]

it also really gets me that even if it applied all the time, Mythic Resistance just... isn't really that bad?

it's 1-10 resistance, that's less than most on level monsters will have

[surreal basin]

I kinda get what mythic saves are going for tho

It’s supposed to like… make u have to adapt to an enemies weakness

[desert vale]

What if pathfinder earth was infested with cosmic horror

[heavy fulcrum]

already is

all the standard cthulhu mythos stuff on earth is there in pathfinder

like cthulhu and rlyeh

though some stuff with locations on earth is actually extradimensional (as in you can get there from earth but its actually connected via portals and shit)

[steel blade]

also, Baba Yaga and Rasputin

[tribal steeple]

it absolutely already has its own share of cosmic horror and you don't even really need to go very far to see some

[echo briar]

Does the dark tapestry exist within solar systems, or just between them?

Like, will the Apollo missions get stopped by some unknowable horror?

[heavy fulcrum]

its just between

and its not like, literally everywhere between systems anyway

The Dark Tapestry (space between the stars) and the Dark Tapestry (the outer gods, great old ones and the dominion of the black) are technically seperate things

its mostly just a poetic name for "space" the separates it from regular interplanetary space

[echo briar]

Do we know how far out they stay? Like will they attack the Oort cloud?

[heavy fulcrum]

theyll go anywhere and attack whatever they want

again, not literally everything outside the solar system is an evil monster, its just that a lot of cosmic horrors live outside solar systems

sea monsters in the sea, as a point of comparison

just because you get in a boat doesnt mean the kraken is gonna get you

[echo briar]

Yea, but how shallow of water can the sea monsters swim in?

[heavy fulcrum]

depends on the sea monster

and ones definitions of "sea" and "monster"

azathoth isnt likely to sneak up on you but the king in yellow could be anywhere

[astral prawn]

Honestly I'm using a 3pp version of the feat that removes the action and just makes it "Spend a mythic point to make a strike at Mythic" passive, so that martials can use it for all their funky abilities

[limber comet]

I HAVE BATTLECRY

LETS

FUCKING

GO

[echo briar]

How is guardian looking?

That seems like it’s going to be changed the most from the playtest

[warped orbit]

what's the new Thaum implement?

[echo briar]

Is taunt still the main class feature?

[clever cobalt]

Any lore

[clever cobalt]

Knave-core

[light gyro]

Knave's ICON, right?

[limber comet]

Whoa whoa hold on

[limber comet]

Shield!

[warped orbit]

oh interesting

[limber comet]

Yeah there's a gazetteer, I'm just doing a preliminary skim before I start digging in

The new sorcerer Bloodline is Aesir btw :3

[clever cobalt]

Screenshot? 👀

[echo briar]

So thaums can just sword and board now

[limber comet]

Also Swarm eidolon

[clever cobalt]

Ooh, this looks neat

[limber comet]

Also

There is a metric fuck ton of troop statblocks

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[warped orbit]

yeah
pretty big for Thaum

[limber comet]

Like, a ridiculous amount

[clever cobalt]

Any standouts?

Like weird troops etc

[limber comet]

Stat wise or just what I think is neat?

[warped orbit]

oh shit, free Raise Shield on Exploit is huge

[clever cobalt]

The latter

[limber comet]

Oh there's a deluzon troop; kinda funny that pitcher plants would group up and march

There's also a dedicated fleshwarp troop

[clever cobalt]

Oh?

Love my Fleshwarps

Is there mass combat rules?

And if so how similar is it to Kingmaker?

[limber comet]

Not as extravagant but there's a gnome cannon brigade

Uhhhh

[clever cobalt]

Nice

[limber comet]

Yes, and I'm not sure

[clever cobalt]

Gotcha

[limber comet]

My kingmaker campaign died one session in lmfao

[clever cobalt]

Sad but unfortunately common

[warped orbit]

Paragon also seems overall not that important here, which is good for not competing with other implements
Initiate is also the biggest immediate buff, so this is an incredible second or third pick for implement

[clever cobalt]

Also yeah does the Guardian still have taunt?

[limber comet]

Yep!

Taunt is still a key feature

[clever cobalt]

Nice

Any new ancestry feats?

[warped orbit]

how's it work?

[clever cobalt]

For existing ancestries

Not the new one

[limber comet]

Not as far as I can tell

[clever cobalt]

Also does it have the Mental tag

[warped orbit]

that's so much better, nice

[limber comet]

Also guardian gets the parry trait on two handed weapons

Through a lvl 2 feat

[rustic cape]

+2 circumstance bonus to AC and saves against magic for all allies within 15 feet and the ability to block hits to them with your regenerating shield is pretty wild

Like, it's skippable if you have a higher priority, but

Goddamn

[warped orbit]

it's definitely very nice, but most of the Paragons are
and I could see myself skip this one more than some others, is mainly my reasoning

[stuck bane]

Any other classes getting interesting stuff besides summoner and thaumaturge?

[surreal basin]

Tbh unbreakable shield is admittedly v nice

[limber comet]

Sorcerer gets a new bloodline, inventor and wizard got class archetypes

[warped orbit]

oh?

what's the Inventor one?

[turbid dagger]

I realllllly want to know more about Guardian but don't know how to articulate this desire other than 'the first three pages of the guardian spread' which does not seems like a fair ask

[limber comet]

I'm not gonna do that >w> not out of spite or anything but that's a pretty big ask

[limber comet]

The personal siege weapon archetype is an inventor class archetype

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee v v fair, I didn't expect ya too!
For a smaller ask- is it's weapon prof scaling still sorta weird?

[limber comet]

Let me check

In short, kinda

You get master at 13th and that's as high as it goes

[surreal basin]

That’s normal

[turbid dagger]

Oh my god
Yeah Matt that's
They fixed
hte fucing prof scaling

ITS ALL COMING UP NAMO

[limber comet]

OOPS

LOL

[turbid dagger]

Now, wat IS different

Is weapon spec

It gets that later than most class
But that seems fair

[limber comet]

Holy shit lmao

Idk if this is good but the mental imagery is great

[warped orbit]

oh it's a slightly cooler version of Dazing Blow

that's actually pretty good

Dazing Blow can be done with a weapon instead of fist/gauntlet, but it has Press

the fact that this can be at full bonus makes it actually quite good

and also acts as a threat to not ignore your Taunt

[turbid dagger]

I'm also EXTREMELY interested in new Aldori Duelist

[limber comet]

OH

Okay I

I have something I wanna mention

We have a new consumable magic item type now

[warped orbit]

oh?

[limber comet]

Whetstones

[smoky knot]

YO

[turbid dagger]

WOAH??

[smoky knot]

Hello hi I'm here now do tell more about whetstones

[warped orbit]

interesting
I assume they are basically temporary weapon buffs like oils?

[smoky knot]

Bracing in Investigator

[limber comet]

Left one in for an example

[smoky knot]

Holy shit it's cool

Incredible

[turbid dagger]

Trills found my secret source...

[limber comet]

Am I your secret source???

I'm flattered

[smoky knot]

You're his secret source

[turbid dagger]

I may have been sharing info found here and elsewhere on another server we share

[smoky knot]

Judging purely from an Investigator lens, if a few more whetstones are atleast as cool as that one there, I will be eating

I don't know how well other classes would use them, though

[warped orbit]

bit rough with twohanded weapons, especially since you can't prebuff
but depends on the effects I suppose

[smoky knot]

If you have like twenty seconds of warning before a fight and you're willing to risk the consumable, it's doable

It's only on the first strike, so that minute long duration is a good buffer

[warped orbit]

this does also work on ranged weapons as written, which is very funny to me
we Monster Hunter sharpening now

[limber comet]

There's 24 other whetstones

25 total

[smoky knot]

Sheesh

How many are below level 8

[warped orbit]

I basically never assume prebuffing is possible tbh, especially not with 1 minute duration effects

[smoky knot]

It usually isn't

But it sometimes is

[limber comet]

13

[smoky knot]

If you're doing an ambush, or you're anticipating a fight, or any number of situations

[smoky knot]

Incredible

You should send one of the new Commander tactics sometime

I froth at the mouth for them

[limber comet]

Let me take a look

[rustic cape]

Anything you can tell us about the Inventor or Wizard stuff?

[limber comet]

Sure

One more whetstone as a trear

[limber comet]

The inventor one just gives you a personal mortar statblock

[rustic cape]

Ah, so beeg gun

[limber comet]

Oh yeah

We have follower rules now

[warped orbit]

Hmm, no Thesis and Bond

Thats giving up a lot of Wizard's power

[smoky knot]

I can't believe Paizo made anime real

[warped orbit]

Depends on what else is in the archetype I guess

[smoky knot]

This is revolutionary

[limber comet]

So the 2nd level feat allows you to move creatures up to ten feet if they failed an AoE spell save (that's not a cantrip)

[smoky knot]

Sheesh. That's pretty good

[limber comet]

There's limits to it, like

Gargantuan creatures can't be moved this way

And you can only move a number of targets equal to your Int modifier

[smoky knot]

You can move multiple???

Holy

Paizo really pulling out all the stops on this one

[warped orbit]

You do give up your extra top level slots

[rustic cape]

That’s still wild

[turbid dagger]

Okay so silly request that I suspect is a no but
I've had some hopium in my system for a long time
About Guardian getting Defensive Advance like champion because that feat doesn't actually have any divine flavor
Can you grant me closure

(or more broadly, what shield action compression DOES it get)

[limber comet]

I have good news

[turbid dagger]

OH MY HFUCNG GOD
ITS ALLLLL COMING UP NAMO

[limber comet]

https://tenor.com/view/big-news-bullish-bullish-af-crypto-fantastic-gif-16753036148370554223

Guardian is actually really good

[light gyro]

Whetstones sound sick but the action economy sounds terrible

[smoky knot]

It is

Kinda

Atleast once you use it, you're practically guaranteed to get the effect

But as always, it's an opportunity to shill for Investigator

You don't have actions in this economy anyway, so more actions is good

[light gyro]

Oh wait counteract check with your weapon attack modifier that's CRACKED

[turbid dagger]

I'm like
Reeling from guardian actually getting Defensive Advance
Being AMAZING for Guardian aside
It opens up so much archetype potential

Before getting it off class required Cha, a deity, and anathema

[warped orbit]

It's pretty good yeah

[smoky knot]

And it's incredibly anime

[warped orbit]

But it's also on a consumable that requires 2/3 actions to apply

[smoky knot]

I need to parry Disintegration eventually