Pathfinder

[solar thorn]

Yeah it sucks when it happens. In a 5e game I had an enemy massive damage me before I had a turn and then the GM mocked me and I had a pretty massive crashout on the 5e channel a few months back

[wraith snow]

Thankfully it was just ruled at "lets just pretend you went down" because this is all homebrew and we've set up plots for that character ahead of time but someone has brought it up almost hourly in the sessions after

[surreal basin]

What would yall do to make a character whose a possessed porcelain doll see: Ranni and the Revenant from Elden Ring

[wraith snow]

Probably Poppet? I know there used to be a Halfling thing for that in 1e

[rustic cape]

Poppet is the straightforward choice

[surreal basin]

Fair

[errant roost]

what sort of mechanical hooks do you want to reflect their doll-dom?

[rustic cape]

Automaton would also do it, really

[surreal basin]

Some kinda spirity stuff and some kinda stuff reflecting them having an artificial body

yeah automaton isn’t a bad choice

[solar storm]

Mage automaton for me I think

[surreal basin]

Yeah automaton would be good

Automaton + Animist would just straight up revenant huh

Although I guess going poppet, the fire weakness could be just as easily explained as like

Ceramic cracking when heated too much

Or wood

Still it’s pretty focused around being a Silly Lil Guy

[surreal basin]

Funny detail

If you’re quickened you can abuse the sharpshooter automatons Aim ability to make two shots, one in your second range increment and one in your third

https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=903

Since the phrasing of this is just “if you use this a second time, your next attack”

This doesn’t really get you much

But it’s funny and I think unintentional

[rapid wagon]

Hmm if yall were trying to make Akuma from Street Fighter, how would you go about it? Let's say at level 8.

[tribal steeple]

street fighter character
monk, obviously

[rapid wagon]

Yeah that's my starting point

[wraith snow]

There might be some fun flavour stuff to look at from Hungerseed but not wanting an unarmed attack that isn't throwing hands is also understandable

[silver geyser]

I think Akuma is Mountain Style?

[wraith snow]

the leaping attack feats to represent Demon Flip are very funny but also I can't imagine them actually coming up very often in live play

Unless your GM just really, really likes flying enemies

[rustic cape]

Akuma is actually secretly an exemplar

[wraith snow]

Honestly I could see it

[rustic cape]

Hm, what ancestries other than iruxi can get one unarmed attack of each physical damage type at first level?

[wraith snow]

Monstrous Skeleton I think can

[wraith snow]

Ah, nvm, only one type of your choice. I guess if you combine that with Monk you can get up to all 3.

But not inherrently

[rustic cape]

Huh, I think catfolk can sorta do it?

Saber teeth + claws + fists?

Tragic that the claws require a heritage

[wraith snow]

There's also brawling weapons that do the other damage types

if you want to count that

in that case, any ancestry that can access slashing or piercing can easily cover the other one

[rustic cape]

Pondering this for a three-unarmed weapon exemplar

[clever cobalt]

Whats the best spellcasting class

[wraith snow]

I feel like they all have their own niches but Druid feels very well-rounded

Sorc is also up there in my mind just because it can fill any caster niche, and because it has the most spellslots + spont casting

[rustic cape]

Primal is probably the single most straightforwardly good list

[wraith snow]

Though spontaneous v. prep feels more like a player preference thing (and a GM game style thing)

[rustic cape]

And primal sorc really leans into what makes primal such a good list

“Best” is hard to quantify, though

[clever cobalt]

Fair

what Free ARchetypes are good for the Driid anyways?

Cause I was thinking Druid already

[wraith snow]

Fighter tbh

at least if you want to lean into form spells

[rustic cape]

Stuff that nets it control spells

Primal’s weakpoint is a lack of Stupid Bullshit magic

Divine can help with that

[wraith snow]

I would also put forward Oracle for specifically lower level games, because you get access to what other classes don't get till MUCH later with the caveat that they become Cursebound

and otherwise you're basically just a list-locked Sorc

[rustic cape]

Druid with cleric or animist multiclass can pick up some good stuff

Or Halcyon Speaker for arcane

Unfortunately I think there’s no wis-based way to nab occult

But primal gets you slow, haste, fireball, and heal

The four most powerful spells >_>

(That aren’t named synesthesia anyway)

Occult/Primal is an absolutely wild pair

But for a druid, just getting a reaction canceler like roaring applause or laughter will be huge

[rustic cape]

Oh also @clever cobalt do you know how high level the game will be going?

[clever cobalt]

12-20

[rustic cape]

Oh!

Very nice

Get Reach spell

If only for this https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1607&Redirected=1

Moment with Reach Spell actually does change the flow of everything

And don’t neglect to prep this abomination https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1320

Notable for many reasons but one is not caring about Death Effects like Breath of Life does

[clever cobalt]

danke

[rustic cape]

I learned a lot about playing casters from doing an animist, but my big two tips are:

• lower level slots are for utility/buffing/debuffing spells that don’t need to be heightened. High level slots are for your big damage spells and your top-of-the-line debuffs
• especially in those lower slots, prepare stuff that might be useless but which will be absolutely clutch if it isn’t. Bring grapple-breakers and reaction-killers and other weird niche stuff

A caster’s job is to be a Swiss army knife

It is to have every kind of whiskey you can dream of on tap

[wraith snow]

To note for specifically Primal, it depends on exactly how nice your GM is willing to be but you can get A LOT of mileage out of shape stone and wood. They might genuinely be some of the greatest out of combat problem-solution spells in the system.

I really wish the system had more stuff like them, though I understand why it doesn't

[solar storm]

Playing a Wizard and I agree

[rustic cape]

Wall of Stone is similarly insane

[solar storm]

Though there’s some dual use damage and utility spells I like to keep around in low and mid slots

[rustic cape]

Yeah

Oh! Prep some one-action spells

There will be opportunities to use them here and there

[wraith snow]

I don't want to go into detail because I know some people here are playing the same AP but I was able to basically single-handedly fold a bossfight with that spell and it was incredibly satisfying

[clever cobalt]

Any good items for a Level 12 druid?

[wraith snow]

the class specific focus item probably goes without saying but I'll still say it

[clever cobalt]

which are?

sorry, not familair wtih druid items :V

[wraith snow]

I think Druid Vestments is the name?

[solar storm]

Storm of shades or whatever it’s called was my accidental boss nuker haha

[clever cobalt]

gotcah

[rustic cape]

I know a gal who was playing a barbarian with some stone-related dedication, and who after not using the Wall of Stone it gave her once in the entire game up to that point, managed to lock down two of the adds in the level 20 boss fight for three rounds with it, probably winning the party the fight

[solar storm]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1015

Aha

[rustic cape]

Staffs, wands, etc are always good.

[wraith snow]

Spoilers for Kingmaker AP, not sure of the exact point in the book but around level 12 ||One of the bosses has a berserker state he enters after dying where he becomes possessed and keeps fighting for several rounds. Once that happened my character kept repeatedly putting him in the minecraft box till he fell over.||

[rustic cape]

Brutal

[wraith snow]

Oh, re: low level primal spells that never fall off

[rustic cape]

Fear is also one of those 1st-rank spells that is basically always great

[warped orbit]

I was wondering what level this would be
did not quite expect 8th

[wraith snow]

Curse of Albatross is very powerful, though less good if you don't have someone to capitalize on the 2nd half

[warped orbit]

but it is very good condition removal I guess

[rustic cape]

Albatross is sick

[rustic cape]

Even beyond that, a three-action 30-foot radius full heal for allies on demand takes one some wild places

(Reach spell really makes it tick)

[warped orbit]

wdym full heal?

it's gonna heal (Con mod) x level

hmm, okay if you rest a full day it's apparently Con times twice level, which is a bit more impressive

[warped orbit]

(this is tucked away in the Downtime rules instead of being with the other resting rules)

[wraith snow]

Still probably a bit short of full heal except for squishy casters with con investments, though

[clever cobalt]

Druid is less squishy than most casters

[rustic cape]

120-200 HP guaranteed for the whole party with no danger of healing enemies is big, though

As well as clearing drained and doomed

And absolutely worth a level 1 feat that has lots of other uses

[warped orbit]

It's definitely good yeah

Especially with Reach

[rustic cape]

(Also any kind of accelerated daily healing will make it pop)

I endorse the combo for any divine or primal caster

Shock To The System is also a very funny offensive buff, since it grants unlimited rank -2 thunderstrikes alongside haste, potentially on a divine or occult character with no native access to said spell

Strongly considering rank 10 shock to the system for the final battle of strength of thousands

Toss it on the party guardian, tell him to bring the lightning

[echo briar]

Shock to the system is a bad buffing spell, a bad healing spell, a bad resurrection spell, a bad control spell, and a bad offensive spell, but the fact that it does all of those at the same time makes it insane

[rustic cape]

I think popping a target up on demand with no lengthy penalties makes for a strikingly good resurrection spell

Hell, the quickened action is even usable for Stand

[wraith snow]

I've been looking at making a Thaum to replace one of my current characters in an ongoing campaign I'm in but I'm quickly realizing that the character is turning into something extremely MAD

I do realize part of that is self-inflicted due to the combat style I'm pursuing

But I'm really struggling to see how to actually allocate stats in a way that doesn't leave me with a very unfortunate dump-stat

The current idea is primarily dex-focused, but I'll need some str-investment for both throwing weapons and because I'm using a trip weapon

cha is the key stat, and int is critical to ensure Exploit is proccing consistently

Which leaves Con and Wis as the odd 2 out, neither of which I want to ignore for obvious reasons

[rustic cape]

Hm, entering a Season of Ghosts game

Party is pretty low on healing

Was thinking about Thaum with archetype healing shenanigans but I also have an attraction to kineticist

[surreal basin]

If it helps SoG, without GM edits, is pretty easy

Combat wise

Probably the AP you can most get away with low healing in

[rustic cape]

GM will almost certainly tune things

[ocean cobalt]

champion of some kind?

[surreal basin]

Fair

[rustic cape]

What I think I really want to do is some kind of silly exemplar

[wraith snow]

One of my games has a bow ikon Exemplar and it seems really fun

[light gyro]

scare to death babey!!!!

effective 305 damage!!!!!!

[surreal basin]

Exemplar can do healing too

There’s the cornucopia, grab some healing items

[rustic cape]

Aye, pretty good at a constant drip of healing at 3rd level with Radiant, too, right?

[surreal basin]

True yeah!

[warped orbit]

yeah, and you can heal yourself with Scar

[clever cobalt]

Scar of the Survivor is great for healing, yeah

My current build is Scar of the Survivor/Gleaming Blade/Pelt

[turbid dagger]

So
I may be playing in Spore War soon
Eldritch Archer/Druid dedi Fighter 😌

[tribal steeple]

Playing Strength of Thousands as a metal/wood kineticist today, got into a combat we weren't prepared for. Despite not having aura up or armor on (using the Hardwood Armor impulse), Protector Tree successfully blocked 60 damage across 3 trees which is patently ridiculous in a whiteroom analysis for 3rd Level.

[worthy stump]

wood kinet's protector tree goes crazy

it's so good

[tribal steeple]

The asterisk is that everyone immediately gathered around in a defensive position, and the enemies were making fly-by attacks into the group, so everyone was protected by it. They weren't intelligent enemies but instead starving animals, so no fancy tactics.

[warped orbit]

Timber Sentinel is so good

[solar storm]

Timber Sentinel is a really annoying ability for me as a GM

I've been running for it for a while and I think it's balanced but I don't like how centralizing it is

You gotta basically use the same countermeasures against it in every fight

I think it'd be better if it was an Overflow to make it less omnipresent

Though I don't love that

[warped orbit]

tbh, if it was Overflow it would have changed very little in how I would have used it as Kinet

you can't move and use it anymore I guess

[solar storm]

Yeah that's why my group decided against it, it's basically the same thing but the Kineticist is now a fully dedicated TS bot

Arguably worse

[warped orbit]

I played a Earth/Wood Kinet for a while, and Sentinel was definitely my mainstay

but I also generally turned that build into being the most annoying tarpit possible

also Jagged Berms is crazy good

[solar storm]

Yeah it's not unbalanced but also just attacking the tree directly/with chaff to crit it to death every fight is boring

Or at least textureless since it's kinda the same strategy every combat

[warped orbit]

the eventual plan is to stand around, have Ravel of Thorns up, ideally also a tree, and drop Sanguivolent Roots on me

I also took Wrestler to potentially toss people into my Berms

[tribal steeple]

saaaame. ish. I made this character with the intent of being an off-tank, off-striker, off-controller. Their job is to force multiply for the party

in this kind of defensive arrangement we just did, the tree was ridiculous (who needs healers when damage isn't real) but in a faster-paced situation it stops being so overly impactful

and it only blocks Strike (melee or ranged) damage, so spell attacks and any save-based effects go through normally

or more tricky stuff like forced movement/Reposition action to shuffle people away from it first

[vital kiln]

What's Numeria generally like

Considering a campaign set there

[tribal steeple]

Tundra, barbarian tribes, scifi robots, radiation ("blightburn")

[warped orbit]

yeah it's half barbarian tribes, half sci fi tech scavengers

[tribal steeple]

There's a crashed alien spaceship in numeria, you see

[vital kiln]

Aye, yeah, da Silver Mount

What I was thinking was Unity attempting another takeover of the world, having built a giant hive city-esque citadel far to the north in Numeria

Wherein the PCs have to join up with a rebel group to take him down again

[tribal steeple]

Refer to the Iron Gods adventure path for the most detail of that region

[vital kiln]

Equal parts subterfuge and action

[rustic cape]

Alright, so I know very little about kineticists. For a tanky melee/healer kineticist, what are good options? I know protector tree from wood is much-beloved.

Party has a witch, a monk, and a rogue

[warped orbit]

Wood is generally good for healing and some protective stuff

[tribal steeple]

lucky you I am permanently fascinated with the kineticist class and think way too much about it

wood thoroughly covers tanky/healy, and if you flex into water you can get some additional healing and defense

[warped orbit]

for more supportive and tanky, I would probably say either Wood/Water or Wood/Earth

[tribal steeple]

My current setup is wood/metal and frankly I feel invincible and invaluable to the party

If you take Weapon Infusion you can reach very far with your elemental blasts, and if you're running an armor impulse (wood) you'll have at least +2 STR alongside +4 CON, meaning your two action elemental blast does 1d6+6 within 20ft at level 1

[rustic cape]

Would Wood/Water/Earth make sense as leveling goes along?

[tribal steeple]

It'd probably be fine. You'd want to plot out what Earth is actually going to unlock for you though, otherwise you could just stay with Wood/Water

also if you start mono element or dual gate

[rustic cape]

Do you have suggestions re: free archetype?

Oh also I just remembered my GM has this house rule

Kineticists may use a 1 Action Elemental Blast as a Strike

[tribal steeple]

kinticist does not mix well with archetypes, as all of its abilities are Impulses and it very likely does not have the proficiency (either weapon or spellcasting) to be effective offensively. You want things that are either passive or things that enable you to contribute in ways that aren't attack rolls or saves.

Mine is free archetype druid due to being in Strength of Thousands AP, and so my focus for those spell slots is utility and self-buffs. Be the party's Light cantrip, use it to qualify for a Wand of Tailwind to buff yourself, prepare Jump, and so on.

[warped orbit]

archetypes are tricky yeah, since Kineticists doesn't have much overlap with anything Strike or spell based

[rustic cape]

I wonder if Champion would make sense given the house rule noted

[warped orbit]

oh, yeah that house rule does open things up a bit

Champ is always good, for the reaction if nothing else

[tribal steeple]

Reactions are nice. Wood and Water elements give you access to some great ones already, but getting one as a free archetype feat is alleviating. Kineticists are ravenous for more feats and anything helps.

• water: deflecting waves reaction to get resistance to any acid/fire/bludgeoning/slashing effect (2x resistance if acid/fire)
• wood: hardwood armor gives you a scaling and disposable shield you can Shield Block with to absorb damage

[rustic cape]

Any particular tips for ancestry, or is it just the usual stuff?

Surki is under strong consideration

[surreal basin]

Don’t do metal armor impulse wierdly enough

[rustic cape]

That I know

[surreal basin]

Since they made it suck way worse for no reason

Fuck you, Paizo

[rustic cape]

Although! My GM does have a fun house-rule for that

[surreal basin]

Why is metal the one that breaks you bastards

[rustic cape]

Which is that the crit that breaks the armor gets canceled to a regular hit

[tribal steeple]

Metal got pigeonholed into crummy rust themes to the point that a number of its impulses just... eh.

[rustic cape]

But yeah I looked at metal when trying to help another player rebuild at some point and it

Seemed very anemic

[surreal basin]

I don’t think rust is a bad theme but yeah metal isn’t

great

[rustic cape]

Ironically

[tribal steeple]

it could do with a bit better internal synergy. One suggestion was how many of its abilities get extra effect vs metal or metal-wearing enemies, and having a way to apply that trait to target(s) so your stuff gets stronger vs them would be nice

like the Extract Element action the class gets, but parallel

[warped orbit]

Metal has good impulses, but they are kinda disparate

[tribal steeple]

it does have the coolest capstone impulse though

HELL OF 1,000,000 NEEDLES

[rustic cape]

So for Healer/Tank Kineticist, maybe start pure wood with protector tree and either auto-armor or healing fruit, and take Water as a second element expansion at 5th?

[wraith snow]

That's the build we have in a homebrew game I'm in rn and it seems very solid

[rustic cape]

Water has condition removal, right?

[wraith snow]

I'm pretty sure yes but I haven't seen those feats used firsthand

Looking again, seems like just the one feat?

[rustic cape]

Ah

[wraith snow]

I only checked the original feats though, not via Nethys

so it's possible something else was added since, though I don't know what book that would be

[tight flare]

I wis hthere was a comprehensive guide to jumping xD
The rules are in so many different places

[rustic cape]

Do you want jump optimization or leap optimization?

The main difference being that while jumps can be upgraded to Leaps But Way Better, leaps have various weird synergies

[tight flare]

For reasons I ended up taking Cloud Jump (am level 18 and we started at level 11)

I've had minimal use of jumping because of fairly reliable flight

But now I decided I want to figure out how it all works together xD

(i have quick jump, cloud jump, wall jump)

[warped orbit]

The big thing about Cloud Jump is mostly that you can actually high jump good with it

Which is otherwise pretty difficult

[tight flare]

Basic high jump seems fairly limited yeah

[rustic cape]

You probably want Powerful Leap

[warped orbit]

And if you need a really long jump, you can spend multiple actions to do one really big jump

[tight flare]

Am I correct in thinking that with a basic movement speed of 35 and an athletics modifier of 31 (or was it 32?) I can jump a minimum 90 feet?

And can spend extra actions to jump even longer?

[warped orbit]

You are still limited to your speed per action AIUI

Since otherwise Cloud Jump would just be better than Striding with Quick Jump

[tight flare]

True true

Where is the speed limitation listed?

[rustic cape]

There are some very specific ways to cheat the limit but, again, very specific

[warped orbit]

in Long Jump

Success You Leap up to a distance equal to your check result rounded down to the nearest 5 feet. You can't jump farther than your land Speed.

[tight flare]

Right right

But there some way to add your base movement speed to the jump distance by spending extra actions

That seems rather pointless if your base movement speed is a cap already

[warped orbit]

yeah Cloud Jump lets you spend multiple actions to basically double or triple the limit

[tribal steeple]

It really helps to take Assurance: Athletics if you're planning to use Leap/High/Long Jump regularly. I sat down for a few minutes and just put the list of "i can do x" things in a sticky note

If you've got assurance you can ignore rolling and know exactly what level of jumping you're capable of. Once you hit the assured DC of something (e.g. long jump) you don't have to think about it any more

[rustic cape]

You don't need to make athletics checks for leap, but yeah, you want assurance athletics for the others

[warped orbit]

The new Wizard school in Shining Kingdoms is apparently quite good

[surreal basin]

I’d not say it’s as cracked as some people say but it’s quite good

[rustic cape]

Oh, cool

Been looking at Kineticist, this is a hell of a class

[warped orbit]

Yeah I wouldn't say it's crazy, but the focus spells are good

[rustic cape]

What's the name of it?

[surreal basin]

School of Gates

[warped orbit]

School of Gates

[surreal basin]

I WIN
blows you up with my mind

[warped orbit]

https://2e.aonprd.com/ArcaneSchools.aspx?ID=28

[rustic cape]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4302 This thing looks pretty wild

[warped orbit]

A lot of the auras are very good

[rustic cape]

+16 single target damage seems like a lot

[warped orbit]

I used Ravel of Thorns on my Kineticist

There's also the Fire aura combo with Thermal Nimbus

[rustic cape]

I'm very tempted to try doing some kind of Air/Wood/Earth/Water bullshit

I dunno

[warped orbit]

In the game I played Kineticist in, we actually had another one too
They were Fire/Water, while I was Wood/Earth

[rustic cape]

Tragic there are no faux-kineticist archetypes that let you double up on kineticist feats >_>

[warped orbit]

Our out of combat healing was really high

[rustic cape]

I bet

[warped orbit]

Would be really nice

[warped orbit]

Kineticist/Kineticist dual class 😛

It would be pretty funny

[rustic cape]

I think actually for dual class the winning play would be monk for fuse stance down the line

It's really funny how much better fuse stance is with a non-monk stance

[warped orbit]

Yeah

Fuse Stance does go hard on Kineticist

[clever cobalt]

If only Fuse Stance wasn't a Level 20 feat

[vocal ember]

It's level 16 now I think

[small meteor]

It is in fact lv.16 now.

[clever cobalt]

Oh? Nice

[rustic cape]

I think they could move it down to 12 or 14, really

It's not good unless you have a non-monk stance

[warped orbit]

yeah the utility for Monks is very marginal

[rustic cape]

10 would probably be fine if they wanted to let people multiclassing into monk do it at level 20

Otherwise 12

[clever cobalt]

Yeah 12 does seem ideal

[rustic cape]

A lot of really strong feats come at 10, which makes them excellent multiclass capstones

For instance Agile Grace

[trim bluff]

sorry, a bit off topic, but wait, you guys have pluralkit here? i didnt realize, the amount of times alters have masked as me here is so high and i wish i realized sooner so i couldve avoided that 😭

[rustic cape]

Yeh, lots of folks use it

[small meteor]

Mhm!

CreeperMan247 (It/Thon/Thorn) ⨺⃝ ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) sorry, a bit off topic, but wait, you guys have pluralkit here? i didnt realize, the amount of times…

[limber comet]

I think we need ah uh uhhh ultra instinct monk feat

Make it give you an insane ref/fort save and ac boost, with a bit of a damage boost

But have it hurt you badly at the end of every turn

Your level + 5 or 10 or something

[craggy thunder]

My gm just made an entire three hour session out of earn income roles

Just

claps

[tribal steeple]

props

[halcyon halo]

Hf model for a character i want to play someday, a metal kineticist with wizard dedication, whose flesh takes on the visual attributes of gold following an alchemical accident.

This is a totally original character and not based on any other wizard character, nope not at all

[craggy thunder]

WELCOME TO ESTALIA, GENTLEMEN

[halcyon halo]

If I could get a DM to agree, I'd ask if I could flavor kineticist powers as being the result of magical study rather than some skill or inborn ability, just to lean into the wizard bit more :3

[halcyon halo]

WELCOME TO TIAN XIA, GENTLEMEN

I WILL NOT LIE, THE CHANCES OF YOUR SURVIVAL ARE SMALL; SOME OF THOSE BLASTED SHAPESHIFTERS MAY COME BEFORE YOU DISGUISED AS YOUR SLAIN FRIENDS

BUT YOU HAVE MY WORD, THAT I WILL USE MY ARCANE GIFTS TO ENSURE YOUR BODIES ARE GRANTED UNTO THE BONEYARD. THIS IS THE GREATEST REWARD - MORE THAN EVEN GOLD - FOR THE FATE OF YOUR SOUL IS AN ETERNAL CONCERN

[astral prawn]

Nictor Non Poom?

[frank crystal]

Alright, gotta make the statblock of a vampire who grafted a dragon to themselves

[halcyon halo]

Palthazar Pelt

[shrewd bane]

👁️

[tawny tapir]

hewwo chat
I have the vague concept of a catfolk witch because I think black cat who is herself a witch is a funny concept
I’m gonna actually read the book before I get too much into that cos I found it online last night (officially I think right? PF2e’s PHB is officially free online, I think, I’m not doin piracy talk lol)

[novel merlin]

Archives of nethys has all game content and isn't piracy

[tawny tapir]

sick, yeah that’s the name of the site. forgot it

also woag… all of it…

that’s cool as hell

does Pathbuilder 2e include everything also or is there like, some sorta LCP-esque situation?

[tribal steeple]

Pathbuilder 2e has all the content, yes, though some is slightly renamed to comply with license stuff.

there's also the Demiplane site (https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e) which is more official and gets stuff added sooner than Archives of Nethys (which is an unofficial community project), but is significantly less easy to navigate.

[warped orbit]

Nethys has fully caught up again recently though

and it seems they are much quicker on the updates again

[shrewd bane]

Hiya

Just here to see some things I guess

[tawny tapir]

ahhh gotcha! thx y’all

[shrewd bane]

Ah yeah so uhhh

How does the Anathema thing work?

[warped orbit]

if you are a class with an anathema, and you break it, you temporarily lose your class features until the next day

[shrewd bane]

Ahhh ok

[tribal steeple]

The nature of anathemas varies depending on what it's coming from. Druids and Champions are the ones that come to mind. It's not until the next day though, but until you perform the Atone ritual which is a pretty significant thing at low levels.

[ocean cobalt]

nethys was official at one point iirc

[shrewd bane]

So basically you wouldn't see a Fighter or Inventor with anathemas but like

A Cleric might have one?

[novel merlin]

Clerics and champions always do

And druids

[small meteor]

If a Fighter or Inventor has anathema (every character probably has some anathema), it has no mechanical effects to break them, but the character probably won't like it.

ganransu. ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) So basically you wouldn't see a Fighter or Inventor with anathemas but like

[shrewd bane]

Ahhh ok

[tribal steeple]

Nothing stops you from adhering to a deity's edicts/anathema if you want to, but unless you're a cleric/champion/druid there's not any mechanical consequence for it

[small meteor]

Or having non-deity edicts/anathema.

It's what replaced alignments, and it reflects what they think is right or wrong.

[halcyon halo]

Just looking at alchemist and it looks hella fun

I honestly thought it'd be hella annoying collecting ingredients for stuff to craft when i looked at the name but apparently not

[small meteor]

Nah, no fetch quests here.

[warped orbit]

Barbarian also has anathema

[halcyon halo]

Just pay up half the item's cost

[small meteor]

I don't think so anymore.

Alaen | Vulpine Subaltern (any) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) Barbarian also has anathema

[warped orbit]

Unless they got rid of those in the Remaster, i don't remember

[tribal steeple]

Classes always have some manner of access to their schtick. Alchemists just get free stuff each day, more as they level up. Gunslingers for example can take a feat to be able to automatically craft their own ammunition rather than having to buy it.

Barbarian instincts do indeed have anathemas

[small meteor]

Oh no yes they do, don't they? It's just laid out differently in the remaster.

[tribal steeple]

Not all of the instincts have anathema though.

[small meteor]

I know Fury doesn't.

And that's kinda the upside of Fury, it's not tied to anything, you just have Opinions™️.

[tribal steeple]

angry opinions

[small meteor]

..What's the anathema for Animal?

[warped orbit]

Disrespecting your animal I believe

[tribal steeple]

Post-remaster it doesn't have one. Pre-remaster it was

Flagrantly disrespecting an animal of your chosen kind is anathema to your instinct, as is using weapons while raging.

[warped orbit]

And Using weapons yeah

[small meteor]

Hm.

[warped orbit]

Most of them weren't a big deal though

[tribal steeple]

"Don't do this thing you weren't going to do anyway"

[warped orbit]

And they basically always have reasonability clauses too

[halcyon halo]

Wait, alchemists dont have to pay for the shit they craft?? either???

Thats rad

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, Alchemist has two separate methods of making their stuff for free
The tradeoff is that they're temporary so you can't like, sell them

[small meteor]

You know, something I wanna see from Pathfinder? It's a really small thing, but I want to see a map of Shu.

[novel merlin]

If you craft permanent items then you pay, if you make them using your daily alchemy stuff, they're free

[tribal steeple]

Free, valueless, that-day-only alchemical items of your choice (that you have a formula for)

[shrewd bane]

Oh ye so I wanted to ask, but is the combat grapnel any good on a fighter?

[surreal basin]

It’s not the wooooorst

[warped orbit]

it's okay

not necessarily the best, but it's fine

[surreal basin]

You would need to be dex based to take proper advantage of the throw and tether

[shrewd bane]

Ahhh ok

[turbid dagger]

My Spore War group is looking fun AF
Our frontliner is an Exemplar and they seem like they're are going to eat demons alive
Cold iron longspear noble branch ikon, sanctified soul to make their spirit damage Holy
On hit the physical procs cold iron weakness and the spirit procs holy weakness, then they transcend and do another instance of spirit damage for a third weakness proc

[surreal basin]

Oh shit

[turbid dagger]

For my part, I'm playing an Eldritch Archer Fighter, as is elven tradition
Holy Phalanx Piercer (reflavored as a custom elven greatbow) doing eldritch shot with Cold Iron Needle Darts

It was so fun helping my pal build their Exemplar
They were stuck on ideas for their weapon Ikon and going 'I wanna use a spear but there aren't a lot of legendary spears'
They had not heard of Gae Bulg

They were instantly hooked by the idea 😌

They have energized spark for slashing and fire so their Transcend is a bunch of burning thorns sprouting from the spear and ripping the wound open from the inside (iirc)

Our last two players are a Demon Summoner that is specifically trying to be the most unpalatable elven hero possible while still fighting for team good and a Decay Witch I do not know much about yet

[rustic cape]

Quick, is there a consumable bomb that's specifically good for like ... blowing up stone?

[surreal basin]

Like mechanically?

[small meteor]

Probably too late but, if making an argument to the GM is an option, a bludgeoning bomb is probably ideal.

[halcyon halo]

Character idea: prissy ass noble duelist beastkin who's part monarch butterfly

Full on OHOHOHOHOHO type shit

[warped orbit]

couldn't find any bombs particularly good at destroying objects at a glance

lookin through the list though, I didn't realize how many bombs are in Wardens of Wildwood

and some of those seem pretty good too

[heavy fulcrum]

you could use lodestone bombs, they do force damage

[shrewd bane]

Not sure why a tiger beastkin fighter would be out at sea but fuck it deckhand man gooooo

(this character has been floating around my head long enough to actually name them and maybe have a still extremely blurry backstory)

Not sure what his personality is like just yet aside from him maybe being quiet

Not in a dark and brooding way either, more like a socially withdrawn person that really doesn't like being bothered while they work

[small meteor]

From erm, Vudra?

ganransu. ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) Not sure why a tiger beastkin fighter would be out at sea but fuck it deckhand man gooooo

[shrewd bane]

I think so, yeah

Maybe he left feeling ambitious and then had that completely crushed following an absolutely disastrous voyage

[shrewd bane]

Ngl I'm also still not quite sure how to make that part fit

I uh

I really need to read up on Vudra

[small meteor]

Well, we also see fanglords in Tian Xia, Jalmeray, and the Mwangi Expanse.

[shrewd bane]

Fanglords?

(ngl I'm not very familiar with the term)

[small meteor]

Er, weretiger-kin.

[shrewd bane]

Ah ok

Also reading up on Jalmeray that could fit for Alde? It'd explain why he's doing what he's doing

I am kinda worried I'll get it wrong but uhhh... Well, it's worth a shot

[tawny tapir]

GOOD (unbiased (lie))

[shrewd bane]

Also I really gotta figure out what Alde looks like now

[halcyon halo]

Always carrying around a fancy wine glass full of nectar

[shrewd bane]

Holy shit

That's just Queen

I should try playing Pathfinder again sometime

[halcyon halo]

https://tenor.com/view/memes-run-queen-deltarune-gif-23967084

[shrewd bane]

But yeah, I'm not sure how Alde would interact with other characters (and I can only guess since I don't really have a group)

[rustic cape]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=2784 Found a hardness-ignoring bomb but it only works on metal

[heavy fulcrum]

as long as youre doing at least 14 damage (3d6 or 4d8 on avg.), you can eventually get through any stone wall (that doesn't meet the Downtime exception)

[rustic cape]

Eventually is less the issue than Now, In Combat

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah mid-fight probably wont happen unless you can dish out a LOT of damage

[rustic cape]

The Water Is Filling The Room And I Would Like To Blow Up The Faucets

[heavy fulcrum]

oh, just breaking regular objects is much easier

i thought you wanted to demolish a whole wall

Generic Metal Object has 9 Hardness and a Break Threshold of 18, so 27 damage will wreck it

45 to completely to destroy it (or 27 twice)

you could also trying sealing them with glue bombs
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=3295

non-standard use case but who knows

[wooden orbit]

https://youtu.be/PSPnWvdGaNs

[clever cobalt]

is the PG for taht out yet?

[wooden orbit]

Not sure, lemme check

[clever cobalt]

doesn't seem to be unfortunetly

[wooden orbit]

Yeah x-x

Probably won't be long though

[halcyon halo]

Making a warpriest of Cailean (the religious icon he uses for spellcasting is just a tankard)

[clever cobalt]

my GM is mixing up Mythic

they're creating custom Mythic Skilltrees for each character

they look pretty neat

[small meteor]

You've basically just made a medieval monk with strong opinions. :3

LasgunSunflower (ping yes yes!) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1161695831775248426 message) Making a warpriest of Cailean (the religious icon he uses for spellcasting is just a tankard)

Behold.

Edicts
Drink, aid the oppressed, seek glory and adventure

Anathema
Waste alcohol, be mean or standoffish when drunk, oppress the vulnerable

[small meteor]

Also. Cailean you know you have no chance, right? Are you just enjoying the company of the lesbian goddess polycule, Cailean?

Cailean particularly favors Desna, Sarenrae, and Shelyn (whom he enjoys serenading).

[limber comet]

Knowing him? Absolutely

Every lesbian polycule has the pan drunk gay friend

[halcyon halo]

Yeah he's the gay best friend

[halcyon halo]

Expanding on this: when he casts a spell, the tankard starts foaming up even more than normal, the foam and booze getting a colorful magical glow based on the spell, and then he splashes it on whatever he wants to smite and then takes a big ol swig of what's left :3

DeMarcus Ray, traveling moonshiner, freedom fighter, aspiring barkeep, and warpriest of Cayden Cailean, the Accidental God :3

[frank crystal]

What’s a good magic weapon to give a nodachi using gleaming blade exemplar?

[rustic cape]

Kineticist is pretty cool

[surreal basin]

Just the flash blade?

It’s a Special Nodachi

[frank crystal]

Yah probably

[rustic cape]

Earth/Water/Wood seems like it has pretty crazy overall support

[small meteor]

..Looking into exemplars, damn these.. This is kinda exactly what Bǎihé is meant to be, but she's from long before the event that caused exemplars to appear happened.

[rustic cape]

You could still use it

Characters don’t necessarily need to correspond 100% with class lore

[small meteor]

I suppose. Maybe she's some form of like, proto-Exemplar?

[clever cobalt]

Shame its useless in Mythic

Due to how Mythic stuff works

(and how the Kineticist as a mechanically unique structure)

[small meteor]

Also, Thousand League Sandals is EXACTLY what we needed for her, since her thing is she is hypervelocity fomx.

[surreal basin]

Tbh just make anything that calls for a strike be able to use a one action blast

Pretty effective house rule for making kinet compatible

[warped orbit]

It's a very strong combo overall yeah

[rustic cape]

My GM has this house rule

[trim bluff]

Had another session in our 1e campaign
We had a fight against a bunch of manticores, i cast a defensive spell, instantly went down, then stayed unconscious for the rest of the fight
Next fight, 1 giant manticore, i get hit with a strength draining poison, spend the rest of the fight desperately casting resistance and guidance on myself to try to get rid of it as fast as i can, i manage but now have 3 strength 😭

[wooden orbit]

Made a Diabolic Dragonblooded Elven Exemplar with the Spore War specific background Demon Hunted, to mess around with....in case I ever get to play in a Spore War campaign.

Went with Twin stars for the initial class feat, and the Ikons so far are Barrow's Edge, Victor's Wreath, and Pelt of the Beast.

[rustic cape]

In session for Kingmaker, confronting Tartuk, part of our argument to sway the other kobolds was that our very large lizardfolk party member is a better lizard than he is

[rustic cape]

Also I found more leap optimization

Born to the Trees from kineticist

[rustic cape]

We put chief sootscale back in charge and then in a burst of manic energy asked a still-living tartuccio to help us manage the mitflits

This was probably a bad idea

But it was our bad idea

[wraith snow]

This has been our group's motto with Kingmaker as well

[turbid dagger]

My hobgoblin fighter decapitated Tartuk on reflex when he tried to become invisible and run away, and we only realized who he was after the illusion shut off
We buried him in an unmarked grave in the woods so no one can accuse us of murdering rivals to the kingdoms rule!

[rustic cape]

My barbarian sussed it out immediately and kept telling everyone, and none of the kobolds believed her until we beat him

My hope is that since our wizard spent the whole time talking him up at the party, he might actually be manageable???!

[rustic cape]

Season of Ghosts is 1-10, right?

[clever cobalt]

1-12 iirc

[rustic cape]

Oho

That does change things a bit

[tribal steeple]

It's a very good impulse but uncommon so you gotta go 🥺 to the gm for access

[limber comet]

Sooo...

https://battlezoo.com/products/free-battlezoo-ancestries-dads-pdf

[surreal basin]

Lmao

Briefly thought that was ai art but it’s not

[surreal basin]

The +1 to saves against magic bonus that a bunch of higher level or extra planar creatures get kinda pisses me off lol

[turbid dagger]

It's odd!
Maneuverers thriving I guess

[frank crystal]

Are there any high level illusion spells which can create an illusion which interacts with the world?

[surreal basin]

Uhhhh I feel like yes

[echo briar]

Do rituals count? https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=146

[frank crystal]

I only need it for 1 creature

[surreal basin]

Illusory Creature can I think actually

Hmmm

Need to make a statblock for a divine who came to be consumed by bloodlust and was locked away in a vault

[limber comet]

The battlezoo ancestry covers just have that artstyle :/

It's very unfortunate

[frank crystal]

Oh yah illusory creature can already interact with stuff

Or at least says it feels real to the touch

Which implies that to me personally

[turbid dagger]

Im unsure if an illusory creature can, say
Pick up a book

[rustic cape]

Tragic how multiclass stuff doesn't use your main class's DC

Kineticist would love class DC stuff if it did

[frank crystal]

Are there any spells which can?

[turbid dagger]

May I know the wider context
My simplest answer is illusory disguise on a real creature

[frank crystal]

Huh, yah I think I’ll just have to work the scene around like

The NPC not interacting with anything

[echo briar]

Dads are op please nerf

[wooden orbit]

Good lord these early mobs in Extinction Curse hit HARD

[surreal basin]

Oh yeah the opening to that AP is

rough

We almost died to multiple wild animals

[wooden orbit]

We're fighting these worm demons in an cemetary.

[surreal basin]

Oh those guys!

[wooden orbit]

I max healed our druid...and then he got knocked back down to just 3 above what I healed him for. (Healed him for 16, he then took 13 damage)

[surreal basin]

That’s level… you’re level 2 right

[wooden orbit]

Yup!

[surreal basin]

Have yall fought any swarms?

[wooden orbit]

Lvl 2 Minotaur Lore Oracle. And yeah, swarm in the uhh house

[surreal basin]

Those fucked us up real bad

[wooden orbit]

Welp our masochistic Champion just went down to the Abrikandilu

[surreal basin]

Whoopsie

Better get him back up

[wooden orbit]

She knocked herself out using her reaction to hit the demon after it struck her.

[surreal basin]

LMAO

[wooden orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/marcus-the-worm-jimbo-james-vr-chat-gif-6125737248639616377

[rustic cape]

Anybody have feedback on my First Kineticist Ever? https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1151153

(Season of Ghosts, so game goes to 12th)

[warped orbit]

looks good

consider picking Jagged Berms at some point

it gives you kinda crazy battlefield control with the walls

but you'll definitely be totally fine with Timber Sentinel and the heals either way

[rustic cape]

I do want Jagged Berms but I'm not sure what I'd drop for it

[warped orbit]

yeah, that's also fair

[rustic cape]

I could drop Sanguivolent Roots but if this is indeed a game with Ghosts, occurring during a relevant Season, it seems especially solid

Hail of Splinters was kinda thrown in so if anybody has thoughts for a better pick I'm all ears

[warped orbit]

Weapon Infusion has some utility

if you think you'll actually be making Blasts on your turn

since you have good Str too

[rustic cape]

It does, although a bit less since I can already do slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing

[warped orbit]

it's mostly about the tags

reach, and thrown mainly

[rustic cape]

I guess reach is probably worth it, true

Oh wait thrown gets me str on ranged blasts

That is good

[warped orbit]

Thrown lets you apply your Str mod up to 30 ft, yeah

so that makes your 2a Blasts fairly chunky early on

[rustic cape]

Yeah

Good call

[warped orbit]

also one thing to note
Armor in Earth gets you armor specialization immediately

so keeping that resistance in mind can be handy

[rustic cape]

Oh slick

Fresh Produce is such an awkward "the party needs the out-of-combat healing and the scaling is great even though this sucks right now" pick >_>

[warped orbit]

it's not horrible even in combat emergencies IME

[rustic cape]

Party is an Occult Witch, a Clawdancer Rogue, and a Monk, if that matters

[warped orbit]

but yeah mostly out of combat healing

which it is very good at tbf

[rustic cape]

Yeah the scaling looks genuinely solid for eventual in-combat use

[warped orbit]

oh that's good for Produce actually, likely that people wil have free hands

[rustic cape]

Oh true!

[warped orbit]

since IME the biggest issue is needing that free hand to hold the fruit

if people are often using both hands

[rustic cape]

Tragic that Ghost Hunter from Duskwalker can't be made to apply to blasts

[warped orbit]

also check with your GM if they potentially allow feeding the fruit to someone else as an action

[rustic cape]

Will do

[warped orbit]

to get people back up

[rustic cape]

sees unconscious person "Here have a refreshing strawberry"

[warped orbit]

Dash of Herbs will also help out with that once you get it

also I forgot you have Champ archetype on this lmao
you will prevent so much damage with this build

[rustic cape]

I'm on the friend discount for a paid game here, filling a spot, and these are newer players who went for DPS classes, so I wanted to give them a real chance to strut

Debuff, heal, defend

[warped orbit]

yeah this will definitely be great for that

[echo briar]

The problem is that the roots only damage undead creatures if there also happens to be a living enemy there too

If its just undead enemies, you can't hit them at all

[clever cobalt]

Mythspeakers PG is out

Kkolo are not mentioned

also

[turbid dagger]

The most interesting thing here for me is that on ancestries the PG explicitly suggests reflavoring Jotunborn to represent other kinds of giants
Cyclops, in this case

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[warped orbit]

Mythspeakers is the low level Mythic AP right?

[clever cobalt]

Yeah

1-10

Set in Iblydos

[warped orbit]

low level Mythic still feels weird to me
since I guess its when Mythic proficiency is at its strongest
but Callings are also kinda meh in general

[clever cobalt]

My DM for my mythic game is making custom skill trees for our mythic characters

Since they feel the base mythic stuff can be a bit underwhelming

[halcyon halo]

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1151228

How's my legally distinct balthasar gelt build :3

[heavy fulcrum]

yeah Drokalion is a regular lion that just managed to accidentally become a minor god

from Dark Archive https://i.imgur.com/bbLpV4M.png

his first appearance was an off-hand mention in one of the articles in Tyrant's Grasp

alongside a sword, a dockworker and a pair of boyfriends https://i.imgur.com/3hNOKRU.png

[turbid dagger]

So, I may be our face in Spore War
We have a Summoner but they have a Demon Eidolon and are narratively headin towards a conceit that will not make them a suitable figurehead of the group to other elves
Thinkin hard on talky builds

Particularly one that is particularly good at higher levels since an AP that starts at 11 is not an every day situation

[tribal steeple]

This wednesday, wood kineticist gets Ravel of Thorns stance. I am become tar pit.

[wooden orbit]

@turbid dagger Off the top of my head class wise? Exemplar, Swashbuckler, and Bard?

[limber comet]

I forget that swash is VERY talky

[tribal steeple]

running swashbuckler like a monkey island protagonist is a very fun idea that I could never execute

[turbid dagger]

I'm already playing swash in another game but maybeeee

[tribal steeple]

"you fight like a milkmaid!"
Bon Mot "How appropriate, you fight like a cow!"

[turbid dagger]

We already have an Exemplar so nada there
Maybeeeee Bard??

[wooden orbit]

Thaumaturge or Investigator?

[vocal ember]

A somewhat interesting option option could be a Fire Kineticist with a skill junction. If you can get away with being focused on Intimidate that is.

Another interesting option could be Monastic Archer Stance monk. Like, the stance will leave you with a lot of actions probably (since you will need to move less and can Flurry two Strikes with one action) and one way to put that to use is to invest in Diplomacy and Intimidation and Bon Mot and Demoralize in combat a bunch.

[turbid dagger]

Hmmmm.... I am also likely going to want to be our primary ranged damage dealer
What I'm sorta bouncing around is Eldritch Archer Fighter, but no clue what Archetype to take before that

[rustic cape]

Huh, I’d never looked at Eldritch archer before but it’s pretty cool

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s sexy

[warped orbit]

I've been getting good use out of it on my Investigator

[rustic cape]

Hm, so looking at my kineticist's build, I had planned to take Sanguivolent Roots at 10 and Effortless Impulse at 12, but as Polish Vampire points out, Sanguivolent Roots is only good if there are living enemies. I could alternately drop both feats (Roots being my only sustain invocation) and go for some combination of Cyclonic Ascent, Rattle the Earth, Aura Shaping, and Jagged Berms.

[echo briar]

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo703p2

[rustic cape]

Blue

[clever cobalt]

Big Chungus

[limber comet]

HES JUST A FARM BOY

[turbid dagger]

I loooooove how he drops into the universe
Gets shot at by arrows, tanks them long enough to beat up a crocodile and put out fires until people realize he isn't actually a marauding monster

[limber comet]

He's just built different

We can only strive to be like him

[rustic cape]

Man, Earth Kineticist is jacked

[wraith snow]

Despite having a kineticist in all of my games since the class was released, I haven't actually seen anyone use Earth gate yet

[rustic cape]

It feels like the only element that just has something Really Good at every impulse level

I guess 4 and 6 are merely Good

[rustic cape]

Assume Earth's Mantle just giving you +1 strength is particularly wild

[eager mountain]

I think the sword was also mentioned in divine mysteries

[echo briar]

Are alchemical mutagens actual mutagens, in that they change your DNA?

I assume it would be temporarily, unless growing 20 ft long arms is a side effect, and the real function of the elixir is giving you cancer

[heavy fulcrum]

theyre magic transformation potions (but theyre Legally Not Magic)

[surreal basin]

Alchemy not being magic makes me unreasonably peeved

[heavy fulcrum]

we're lucky they stopped having psychic stuff be not-magic

[turbid dagger]

I just realized
Occult caster might be an option for my spore war char
Spiritual Anamnesis is ludicrously potent vs Demons

No incap
In fact, on demons, reverse incap

[surreal basin]

See I think kintecist is in the right place for that

It’s magic but it’s not spells

[heavy fulcrum]

oh no, pf1 (and 3.5) psychics were straight up not magic at all

or well in PF1 it was magic but it was a seperate Psychic Magic with seperate rules for a bunch of stuff

and Kineticist was mostly Supernatural abilities

im definitely glad they got rid of the extraordinary, supernatural, spell-like distinction

[surreal basin]

[heavy fulcrum]

3.5 psionics was wild and cool though

[surreal basin]

Although I do think they have a certain jeneseqoi
I wouldn’t remove them from pf1e

[heavy fulcrum]

because it was completely different

you just had a big pool of points to spend on your powers (most of which were spell-adjacent) but you can just choose how to spend them, instead of just having fixed amounts

they'd have a default minimum (equal to the standard minimum caster level, 1 for 1st, 3 for 2nd, 5 for 3rd and so on) but most had an Augment option that let you spend extra points to boost it, up to a maximum spend of twice your level

like, here, psionic lightning bolt https://i.imgur.com/hi7Vplp.png

spontaneous slotless upcasting

[rustic cape]

But you could not spend more than your manifester level on any one spell

(This is important because people not understanding it was the source of a ton of “psionics is overpowered” nonsense)

[heavy fulcrum]

sorry yes, equal to your level, not double

i dont know where i got double from

its been a while

[turbid dagger]

So Flames Oracle has entered the chat
Divine Access and Major Curse are level 11
Signature Holy Light
Signature Spiritual Anamnesis
Signature Heal
Signature Fireball
Then I can get a lil quirky with Divine Access
Like Devourer (Star Domain) for Acid Grip and Disintegrate

Foretell Harm to proc spirit weakness twice on demons (gotta figure out how to sanctify on oracle but thats fine)

Storm Oracle may be better but I'm having a hard time coming up with char ideas

[rustic cape]

I hate that some of the best duskwalker art I'm finding is a character named "Shadow Milk Cookie" from Cookie Run

[turbid dagger]

Cookie Run fanart does go oddly hard

[rustic cape]

I am amused by the fact that some of the best duskwalker-in-Japanese-clothes art I'm finding is pokemon gijinka

(Source: https://www.deviantart.com/tamtamdi)

[eager mountain]

https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com/product/526580/Queerfinder-Special-Sexuality-Issue?affiliate_id=1304593&src=discord

[astral prawn]

Oh sweet! Queerfinder

[rustic cape]

Realizing I don't actually need any starting equipment for my kineticist

[surreal basin]

Oh are you dexy so no armor?

[rustic cape]

Earth kineticist

Armor of Earth

[tribal steeple]

Yeah kineticists are very equipment independent, lots of floating gold to invest in other things since the only runes they need are armor.

[rustic cape]

First session of season of ghosts complete

Tons of fun

[upbeat ridge]

What effects at level 1 let allies move?

I know about that one air impulse and I’m sure the commander class will have something for that

But I’m not sure what else

[tribal steeple]

A spell caster can cast Jump, there's probably at least one other spell that works too

[turbid dagger]

Psychic's amped Message

[turbid dagger]

Oh also- who knows of a spell that grants Fast Healing? Trying to dampen Flame Oracle's downside as much as I can

[vocal ember]

A search on AoN gives me this https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=2472

[turbid dagger]

Ooooo neat
A net positive even at max cursebound

[warped orbit]

I feel like the curse for Flame Oracle almost never matters tbh

taking 1-4 damage a turn is just not a big deal

[worthy stump]

during combat it's not too bad, yeah. it's after combat that it becomes an issue, especially if you have some sort of time pressure thing going on

[warped orbit]

you can just start Refocusing

your curse is suspended while you Refocus

[solar storm]

I think this is theoretically a problem but in practice you just chug elixirs of life or potions or something while running

[worthy stump]

yeh, it's definitely like. a super situational problem

not likely to come up much if at all

especially given most parties stop to refocus after just about every fight anyways

[rustic cape]

Exemplar's Thousand League Sandals

[vocal ember]

I guess if you have sufficient Strength you can also just pick them up and move them yourself

[worthy stump]

i think Commander has some stuff for that too?

[vital kiln]

Y'all got any archetypes or dedications you'd recommend for a Drifter

[surreal basin]

Rogue, Pistol Phenom, Swashbuckler

Marshal

[limber comet]

Time for a minor (possibly) hot take

I think kobolds should've been in pc core 1 instead of leshies

[tribal steeple]

Leshies were kind of an odd inclusion.

[limber comet]

I mean idm too much but kobolds would've been another little guy™️ and filled the dragon-related species niche that tends to be popular in elfgames

[true delta]

Heya. How would you do Zelda-style dungeons in PF2e? Be it longer ones or something like the newer games' shrines.

See, my campaign is very nature-oriented. And the four Wardens of the Wild from How of the Wind would fit a high level game with Zelda vibes very well. I'm just not sure how to find/make good dungeons for Pathfinder.

[light gyro]

My usual process for elfgames dungeons is:

• think up a theme/interesting location
• roll up an appropriate amount of treasure
• pick up some thematically appropriate monsters
• think up five or so locations
• assign one or more encounters to those locations (monsters, investigation, social, hazard. I don't really like video game 'puzzles' in ttrpgs)
• draw up a diagram connecting these points together
• optionally think up some hazard/lock that makes those connections more interesting. (This way's unlocked, but it's in total darkness! This way has a cave-in, but there's another room nearby with demolition charges!)
• then, and only then, do I draw up rooms.

There's also the five room dungeon technique you can look into

if you want to do some classic zelda Mirror Shit™ you may want to add something on top to make it more engaging. maybe they have to move stuff into position in the middle of a fight, and the longer they take the more beasties show up

[true delta]

Much appreciated!

[rustic cape]

My favorite is the Random MtG Card method

https://scryfall.com/ Click random card three times

Combine the concepts for the three cards you get

Bam, adventure

https://scryfall.com/card/ema/13/honden-of-cleansing-fire?random=*&unique=cards https://scryfall.com/card/unf/73/down-for-repairs?random=*&unique=cards https://scryfall.com/card/m20/41/yoked-ox?random=*&unique=cards

A severely damaged undead warrior begins traveling from shrine to shrine, slaying the sacred oxen at each one in search of spare parts to fix themselves. Should all the shrines fall, catastrophe will come upon the land.

This method was devised before all the tie-in sets, might want to exclude those on principle

[light gyro]

Huh 👁️

i would risk an incursion by the zombie slop show if it meant potential yshtola cameo

[errant roost]

tie-ins mean you can also play a game where you ask "which of these cards would be funniest if we replaced it with Hatsune Miku?"

[warped orbit]

looking into the PF2 reddit today
see a post "How do you handle a party of casters at high level"

they have 7 players, five of which are casters
they get to rest to full after almost every encounter
the GM complains that it's impossible to balance combat like this

[wraith snow]

Something tells me casters may not be the only issue there lol

[warped orbit]

yeah

[errant roost]

TTRPG players understand attrition mechanics challenge, level: impossible

[solar storm]

7 players also means you gotta exceed encounter norms for a challenge imo

[warped orbit]

the spell they complained about their casters using the most was also... Disintegrate

[tribal steeple]

the double-gated single target damage spell

not chain lightning, no, there's nothing wrong with chain lightning doing 360 damage across all the enemies in one turn

[solar storm]

Oh that’s funny

It’s not a bad spell but it shouldn’t be blowing up your encounters

[errant roost]

I mean, I guess if you have seven players and less than seven NPCs (and you go into every fight with full spell slots...), disintegrating them all is probably a risk

[turbid dagger]

So in an odd twist of fate in addition to Spore War I am being brought along on a game of Hells Rebels 2e that has essentially the same group just a different GM
And I may be playing a Magitek Innovation Inventor from Inventors+ of all things

It's a
Very odd class but getting overdrive on spells is cool
And apparently Jistka used to have colonies in Ravounels general area
So we settled on an automaton technomage that recently reactivated and is watching Cheliax pull a Jistka 2

[warped orbit]

what's it do?
limited spellcasting?

[turbid dagger]

You get archetype casting, and a focus cantrip called Technomancy Ray, which is sort of like a hex cantrip- 1 action for a spell attack that scales up over the levels
Your modifications apply to your spellcasting, or grant extra magic stuff like temporary techno-talismans
Your overdrive and offensive boost also applies to your spells

You also use your class DC instead of spell DC for all your spells

[craggy thunder]

my kitsune changeling plural pair are now also wererats

[true delta]

Nice

[rustic cape]

This seems to have a fairly straightforward answer of "casters are balanced around attrition and action economy, if you take it out of the game and have seven of them, they can just do whatever"

[light gyro]

I'm going to teach their players about implosion to make their problems into worse problems

[rustic cape]

Strength of Thousands complete!

GM significantly hardened the final battle

One character dead, three down

Last boss crit fails against a 10th rank phantasmagoria

[warped orbit]

Oof

[rustic cape]

Off of a black cat's curse

The final blow

[light gyro]

No one stands above a kitty in the end!

[true delta]

Congratulations! For how long did you play the campaign?

[rustic cape]

I was only in it from 12-20, but I am given to understand the whole thing took over two years?

[light gyro]

That sounds about right

[tribal steeple]

I'm just getting into book 2 of SOT, level 4.

[rapid wagon]

I sort of thought that pf2 had an anti attrition stance? Party healing to full after every encounter, then as levels go up also healing or removing ailments, and cantrips being the bread and butter combat spells

[light gyro]

it's anti HP attrition, but that's about it

[rustic cape]

Cantrips are absolutely not what you want to be doing on most rounds as a higher-level caster

You almost always have something better to do with your actions

Even at mid-level

Cantrips aren't useless, mind

They're especially good for cleaning up enemies that are almost down and giving you the ability to hit various weaknesses whenever you like

And for many parties removing ailments can be non-trivial if you don't have the right stuff prepped

The game expects you to go into almost every fight with full HP, but not fully charged

And deciding how to use your slots is a pretty critical part of caster gameplay

[sinful gyro]

Went to the LGS today for a trade, didn't realise it was free rpg day

So I got to pick up this

[surreal basin]

Okay I’ve officially ported over my first 4e enemy in PF2e

The Eidolon, a real weird guy

Basically just a standard animated statue slam machine…. Except for a stance and some reactions that completely change the game

First, 25 foot aura that makes allies straight up immune to fear

That comes free

Then, the stance: he gets resistance 20 to damage and gives all his allies effected by the first aura 1d8 spirit damage on their strikes

This stance ends if he is moved for any reason, forced movement, him taking the move action

While in this stance, he has a free action to react to anyone attacking him by making them make a high dc reflex save against… quite a bit of spirit damage

Finally, he has a reaction where if you reduce an ally within 100 feet of him to 0 hp, he zaps u with a moderate amount of fire damage

[silver geyser]

The Eidolon is a nifty dude to be sure.

[rustic cape]

She clarified: ||she replaced two of the three Aspects’ upscaled monster stats|| with two Spawn of Rovagug

[wary yoke]

I'm transcribing my notes for the Harpy ancestry for our setting, and I'm trying to find the specific rules for a scenario. Would a creature that is flying need to take an action to hang onto a wall at the end of its turn not to fall?

One of the ancestry feats would give Combat Climber, make it so that they need free is talons and a wing, and I want to make it so they could land on a wall at the end of their turn instead of the ground

(since they start with the "fall at end of turn" level flight)

[wraith snow]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2313&Redirected=1

@wary yoke

[halcyon halo]

redesigned my silly little Caileanite warpriest a bit, just made his outfit a bit more colorful and removed the mask

[limber comet]

So the new Battlezoo Bestiary is out for pf2e

And there's a new archetype

These are the additional feats

[clever cobalt]

Whats the archetype?

[limber comet]

Monster Hunter

It gives you titan wrestler and 3 skill proficiencies when you take the dedication

[clever cobalt]

Neat

[limber comet]

A little teaser

[surreal basin]

What’s a good statblock of anything I could coopt as the baseline for an ancient celestial warrior mad with bloodlust

Level 16 party but I’m good at adjust monsters to whatever level so

I guess I could just give a planetar some barbarian stuff

[echo briar]

What’s with Barnes and Nobel spoiling like every book?

[surreal basin]

lol

Historically vendors just kinda don’t give a fuck

Especially big ones like B&N where like

They aren’t gonna stop working with them

[vocal ember]

It makes sense that Dark Archive would get a remaster reprint since uh... I mean I haven't read the whole thing but my impression is that it does not have anything OGL in it really? Closest thing would be the Mind Smith but that's only similar to the soulknife in a conceptual sense.

[surreal basin]

It had a lot of magic school stuff

[craggy thunder]

I wonder how thaum is gonna change

[echo briar]

I’m calling it now, the thaum is going to be like the barbarian or rogue, and will be buffed a bunch for seemingly no reason

[craggy thunder]

Honestly, as a person currently playing Thaum I hope that doesn't happen

we don't need it

[turbid dagger]

FOR REAL

[echo briar]

They will gain class feats at levels 3, 9, and 13, and there will be debate on if this is a mistake for like a year

[turbid dagger]

Thaum is like
So good 😭

[echo briar]

But no, the dev team just gave them 3 extra class feats

[turbid dagger]

Your a barbarian that can use ranged weapons and agile attacks, who can cast spells, and use your charisma for all RKs

[craggy thunder]

I'm using a reskinned gladius and deadly weapons are very fun on Thaum

[turbid dagger]

I wouldn't have thought it, given their accuracy is their only downside

[craggy thunder]

Going all in on 'when I hit, it will hurt'

Also my group is using gradual progression XD

So

That downside also isn't there

For my Thaum lmao

[turbid dagger]

Well, it will theoretically be there for some levels, but yeah that helps a ton

[warped orbit]

with gradual boost you are behind on stats for like... two levels?

instead of the like 10 you would normally be

[tribal steeple]

We're getting into the mid-teens levels and our thaumaturge deals some SICK NASTY crits with all the flat bonus damage and weakness triggering on single targets. The Fighter by comparison is a reach controller that does respectable damage too, but it's not as much straight damage

[trim bluff]

the jump from level 3 to 4 was huge for my character

ive gone from "healing + utility" to a jack of all trades

ill admit, im not paticularly good at damage or debuffing but the fact i can do both of them and still be really good healing and utility is kinda insane

doom is honestly a really good spell from what ive found so far

(im doing a 1e campaign btw i know everyone here talks about 2e mostly 😭)

[solar thorn]

Holy shit my bard just found this gem
https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blistering Invective

It's like vicious mockery except 2d6 persistent is kinda spooky

[wraith snow]

2e has a bleeding version of this in Cutting Words

Solid spell

[keen raptor]

Holy shit they turned 2010 Modern Warfare lobbies into a spell.

[rapid wagon]

Weird TotM question. Do yall
A. Think of an ongoing combat where inconsequential blows are being trading back and forth and you're only rolling for the attempts at significant blows
B. Your character is only attacking when you roll

[turbid dagger]

Mmm, I'd say a mix
Like, B, but each 'strike' is a bit more involved than just a sword swing
Like uhhhhh, my Fighter succesfully downing someone with a crit is them locking blades, breaking the bind with a headbutt, then slashing them across the chest now that their guard is down

[surreal basin]

Do yall think

That

Minions from 4e would work in PF2e

Like guys with 1hp

Who have very average stats for their level

Because tbh troops have not been inspiring to me lmao

Or rather, they’re not good as ads

[turbid dagger]

So I've actually played several oneshots with someone who was tinkering with minion type monsters
It worked decently well, I played a magus so it was a little odd for me, but regular dudes were mixed in
I'd say it works if you are willing to do the work of cooking them

But I also don't mind 'two PL-1 troops alongside the big bad to represent his lackies'

[silver geyser]

It's different degrees of answer, which is good.

[turbid dagger]

I honestly love troops as a representation of 'impractically large density of mooks of lower level than the party
Such a smart approach, mechanically
But I get it may not be everyone's vibe

[warped orbit]

My gripe with troops is that it turns something casters would be good against (large amounts of weak enemies) and turns it into something you mainly deal with via single target damage

[turbid dagger]

That's fair
They could do with some special vulnerabilities to AOEs

[warped orbit]

They have area weakness, but its not enough to outweigh things IME

If you could like multi hit them with AoE, that would be neat I feel

[surreal basin]

Idk how you’d really do that without bogging down the game
But the weakened and bad saves

[turbid dagger]

Oh so they do, huh
That seems fine to me tbh
Saves are perfect for triggering weaknesses anyhow

[novel merlin]

My main gripe with troops is that they're almost always attacking via reflex save, so at high levels stuff like swashbucklers just take basically no damage from them ever

My party has two characters with amazing reflex saves and the success -> crit or better traits so neither of them ever really get touched by any troop

[warped orbit]

Also that, yeah

[twilit escarp]

Hey, guys, need some help. I'm going to run a game of PF1, so... can someone advice a noob-GM friendly module so I can kinda get in it? Not something too big, like Kingmaker, more like, little to medium adventure for a couple of sessions?

[tribal steeple]

https://www.cbr.com/pathfinder-5-best-modules-beginner-players/

• We Be Goblins is a very short module with premade goblins to play for easy pickup
• Murder's Mark is apparently a murder mystery
• Crypt of the Everflame is good for introduction to the system
• Dragon's Demand is a Level 1 to 7 adventure that's pretty straightforward in plot
• Godsmouth Heresy has you fight a necromancer and loads of undead

[twilit escarp]

I need more about learning mechanics of PF; I GM Shadowrun for about 3 years and did 150+ games, so I know how narrate... just not the PF system underneath ~.~

But yeah, I'll look into these, thanks!

❤️

[tight flare]

The Stolen Fate AP is pretty good heh

[surreal basin]

Yeah it’s one of my favs

[wraith snow]

I haven't had any experience with the 1e one but the 2e sequel was a good time for me

Albeit that does come with the caveat of the GM of that game being very annoyed with the resources they got

[surreal basin]

Oh?

Wdym

[wraith snow]

He felt that the plot as it was revealed to the players by-the-book was unsuitable and much too back-heavy, though I only know his modified version so I can't say for sure whether I agree. I know he also frequently mentioned missing art for some areas and NPCs which he felt was frustrating though no specific examples come to mind.

[tight flare]

Wait there's a PF1 stolen fate?!

I thought it was just a PF2 AP

[wraith snow]

He also wasn't much of a fan of how much tie-in there was to the previous 1e AP given it was marketted as a standalone adventure that didn't require the previous context (which is technically true, but also, they reference it A LOT and without him chiming in to say "oh btw this was in the first one" we as players wouldn't have gotten anything from it)

[tight flare]

Our GM has also complained about the lack of maps for some locations

[wraith snow]

Though tbh a lot of the issues with it wound up working in our group's favour, because we spent a lot of time on intra-group RP and specific character motivations and it didn't really feel like it was detracting from the AP at all because early on the players don't really have a great reason to buy in

[warped orbit]

I'm currently also considering running one of the newer AP
maybe Season of Ghosts?

[wraith snow]

Which usually I would say is an issue but for that group in particular it was fun

Overall I did really enjoy it, though. I'm curious if anyone here has ran it themselves and if so what they thought of the pacing of how the story was revealed

[tribal steeple]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KMUJul33VHT-aYvuJPNNPMOaadwvmToYdesSPz7LEMo/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0#heading=h.9lqx78nvinns
you may find value in this. minimal spoilers for everything but it necessarily includes some due to its nature, still it's a very comprehensive list of APs and you can just gloss over things you don't want to spoil for yourself (you control the words you read)

[surreal basin]

Tbh that’s just Paizo

They have limited page space

They can’t provide maps and art for everything, yknow

Logistically impossible

[warped orbit]

huh
didn't expect to Season of Ghosts ranked this highly

or Sandpoint really

those two were also the main ones I was considering, so that's good I suppose

[surreal basin]

I’ll admit I kinda just didn’t have the rest of those problems w stolen fate

[warped orbit]

I only played the first part of Stolen Fate, but it was fun

hopping around places finding the cards was a neat bit of variety

[surreal basin]

The references to the previous adventure weren’t too heavy handed imo

Honestly I don’t think I would’ve even known they were references had I not been told

[wraith snow]

Yeah, personally I wasn't too bothered by them, I only recall one where I felt like I was missing serious context

[surreal basin]

I think there’s literally only one chapter of one book

[wraith snow]

There was definitely more than that overall, if that's what you mean

But only one chapter felt jarring to me without the prior context

[surreal basin]

There’s p much just the ||harrow realm|| right

[wraith snow]

Also one of main expository NPCs

[wraith snow]

But this was the only one where I felt it, personally.

[tight flare]

Which adventure path is SF a "sequel" to?

[turbid dagger]

Its not really meant to be one but considering it starts in Absalom, Abomvaults might work nicely

[surreal basin]

No i think they mean the 1e AP

@tight flare the harrowing

[tight flare]

Right yeah that's what I meant

I didn't know it was the continuation of another AP

[rustic cape]

I just started Season of Ghosts and it is crazy fun

[surreal basin]

It’s not

It has a bit that is set in the place as The Harrowing

And so is only a follow up in that sense

[wraith snow]

There are a few characters with prior appearances but nothing major

[tight flare]

I take it maybe Hajek is a returning character?

Our group just returned the final few cards and the ||plot twist occured...||

[surreal basin]

Yeah

Oh if ur that far

||also all the stuff in Sonorae’s harrow realm is from the harrowing module||

[tight flare]

Oh cool

[surreal basin]

Also, have fun, the next part of the adventure for you is my favorite

[wraith snow]

If I'm remembering the order right yeah there's a lot of good stuff left

[tribal steeple]

game tomorrow raaaah
i have to keep the magus from killing things

[worthy stump]

a difficult proposition

unless you just reactive strike them

[tribal steeple]

nah I wound up using one of my 2 cantrip slots (druid dedication) to prep Stabilize and do post-fight "make sure people don't die" as my immediate after action activity

this is kind of enabling but also he MIGHT actually start exercising restraint so maybe it's not gonna be a forever thing

[light gyro]

the "slough skin" effect from the magma worm - would you reckon this'd work against Quandry/Maze?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=2873&Redirected=1

[warped orbit]

I suppose, yeah

"adverse effect" is pretty broad

[wraith snow]

Mechanically yes but if I were running it I would probably wave it away

[light gyro]

i think i'll rule it does since it's a once-a-day, in the big final encounter for the campaign, and it would give my maze-addicted wizard player a heart attack >:)))))

[wraith snow]

Fair

There was a point in the Stolen Fates AP where ||all creatures cannot leave the plane the players get stuck in||

and boy was the party Sorc not happy to hear it

For precisely that interaction

[surreal basin]

… huh

Yeah it sure does say you are transported to a different place

In which case I would actually personally argue the worm can no more slough out of it than they could like

Use that ability to no longer be in a river of acid

[vocal ember]

It does feel like it's supposed to be for like physical effects? Tho looking at the pre-Remaster worm the ability was called "Shake It Off" and did not have that flavor text, so maybe it is supposed to be that broad? idk

I guess you could narrate it as like, the spell works but the worm sheds its skin at the last second, and that skin gets teleported into the puzzle room instead of the worm

[warped orbit]

something like that, yeah

[light gyro]

strength of thousands - final encounter start. ||two turns in and the aspect of immortality has dished out 100 damage. nice!!!||

[rustic cape]

Did you tune up the fight at all?

[light gyro]

im going as is, but if its too easy, ||the final aspect standing will get bumped to Elite||

[rustic cape]

My gm gave the ||aspects of hunger and insects the stats from two spawn of Rovagug, and had all of them get stronger when any one went down||

It was tough

She has a stated policy of “I absolutely will not go easy on you with the final boss”

And the party was six so

[light gyro]

oh man six players would definitely melt this as-is

[surreal basin]

In fairness the default party was 6

Sorry

4

I’m silly

[rustic cape]

My gm also tunes everything up

[light gyro]

BRUHHHHH ||the wizard just zephyr slipped out of my grim reaper's lurking death im gonna KILL HIIIIM!!!!!!!!!||

[warped orbit]

||deserved for using the Grim Reaper ||

[rustic cape]

Mostly in terms of HP, otherwise things melt way too fast

[surreal basin]

Should that not have procc’d its reaction

Oh wait

Was that in response TO the reaction?

[light gyro]

yep, ||teleport -> zephyr strike -> no longer able to strike||

[surreal basin]

Lmao

Yeah get dunked on

In fairness you HAVE to do shit like that to that enemy

It’s the only way for casters or ranged to do anything at all

[light gyro]

JUST ONE MORE SESSION BRO JUST ONE MORE

(final encounter ran on too long, we'll finish up next time)

SOT final encounter - ||party have the grim reaper locked down with hideous laughter and slow, but i am very close to killing the wizard which will turn everything on its head. i've been nice and taken off the final death feature so they can rez them||

[vocal ember]

So Zohran memes have brought to my attention that the Exemplar is missing a root epithet:

The Destroyer
Tales of your divine might have spread far and wide, and even brief exposure is enough to turn your enemies into ash, leaves, or dust. You are trained in Intimidation. After you Spark Transcendence you may select one foe, dead or alive, in 30 feet. They take spirit damage equal to your level, with a basic Fortitude save against your class DC. If this reduces your enemy to 0 HP, or you targeted their corpse, their remains are destroyed as disintegrate.

(I thiiink this is balanced?)

[novel merlin]

I think it starts off weak but scales really well

1 damage at level 1, bad. 20 damage at level 20, not bad for being free 1/turn

[limber comet]

Genuine question; with minotaurs, jotunborn, and centaurs all being large size, what would your ideal 4th large size ancestry be

Specifically with large as a base size

[novel merlin]

Beeg goblin

Hobbestgoblin

Goblarge

[vocal ember]

troll

[wraith snow]

Ogres for me personally, they have their own pantheon and with Hungerseed would allow for playing a 'true' Oni

[turbid dagger]

Honestly I'm team Troll yeah
tho Athamaru are large with one ancestry, also

[wraith snow]

I'm guessing that's what they meant by the base size comment

[limber comet]

Ogres would be cool, I'm also on board with trolls

[frank crystal]

Aren’t trolls non sapient in Golarion?

[limber comet]

No they're sapient

[turbid dagger]

They're very sapient and not even innately evil
Paizos got a short story of the monk iconic having a friendly spar with a troll monk

[limber comet]

The iconic story for 2e Sanjan-

Yea

Troll monk would be fire to play

[turbid dagger]

Another runs a crime gang in Absalom, and there's a whole population of them in kaer maga

[frank crystal]

Oh huh

I always thought they were just kinda monsters

[limber comet]

Nope!

[wraith snow]

They're sapient, they just avoid large organized groups as a general rule

Most trolls live in isolation or in very small groups

[limber comet]

They're only monstrous because of how society at large treats them - the trolls that get accepted into society have the same moral compass as any other humanoid species

[turbid dagger]

Their constant ravenous hunger admittedly probably doesn't help

[limber comet]

Oh true

I still feel like they'd be a cool playable ancestry

[turbid dagger]

Yeeeee!

[limber comet]

Cyclopes that survived the downfall of Ghol-Gan would be cool too

Though the Myth-Speaker player's guide says to just reflavor Jotunborn

Which, fair

[turbid dagger]

Yeeee that was really cool

[limber comet]

I do think we need another new "weirdo" ancestry like surkis

Actually surkis need more support in general

I feel like you could probably just reskin shirren but...I like surkis they're silly

[rustic cape]

Surkis are wonderfully bizarre

[limber comet]

Having an ancestry that feeds on magic is just so cool aghh